Regular Session - July 15, 1997

                                                                 
6913

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         9                       ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                         July 15, 1997

        11                         12:19 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                       REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18       LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President

        19       STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary

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6914

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order.

         4                      Would you please rise and join

         5       with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                      (The assemblage repeated the

         7       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         8                      May we bow our heads in a moment

         9       of silence.

        10                      (A moment of silence was

        11       observed. )

        12                      The reading of the Journal,

        13       please.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        15       Monday, July 14th.  The Senate met pursuant to

        16       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, July 13th,

        17       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        18       adjourned.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        20       objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

        21                      Presentation of petitions.

        22                      Messages from the Assembly.

        23                      Messages from the Governor.

        24                      Reports of standing committees.

        25                      The Secretary will read.







                                                             
6915

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         2       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         3       following nomination:

         4                      Judge of the Niagara County

         5       Family Court, John F. Batt, of North Tonawanda.

         6                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

         7                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

         8       President.

         9                      I rise to move the nomination of

        10       John F. Batt, of North Tonawanda, as a judge of

        11       the Niagara County Family Court.  Mr. Batt has

        12       been examined by the staff of the committee.

        13       His credentials have been found to be in order.

        14       He appeared before the committee this morning,

        15       and was unanimously recommended to the floor of

        16       the Senate, and I most proudly yield to no doubt

        17       his strongest supporter in the Senate and an old

        18       and very long time friend, our own Senator

        19       Maziarz.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Maziarz.

        21                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you,

        22       Madam President.

        23                      Madam President, it's with a

        24       great deal of pride and pleasure that I stand

        25       before my colleagues today to recommend the







                                                             
6916

         1       confirmation of a good friend of mine, John

         2       Batt, to the position of Niagara County Family

         3       Court Judge.

         4                      I've known John for almost 30

         5       years now.  We graduated from high school

         6       together.  It's a long way from the halls of

         7       Bishop Gibbons to these halls, John, but you've

         8       certainly earned your way here.  You're going to

         9       do a great job.

        10                      John has been practicing law for

        11       a number of years in Niagara County with a

        12       specialty in the practice of Family Court law

        13       and I know, Madam President, that probably it's

        14       the most difficult assignment for any attorney

        15       is to sit on the Family Court bench and to make

        16       decisions that are going to affect the lives of

        17       children in particular and determine their

        18       course perhaps for the rest of their life.

        19                      John has the unique ability, I

        20       think, to make those types of decisions.  He's

        21       served as a counsel to Assembly member David

        22       Seaman, who joins me here in the chamber today

        23       to offer his support of this excellent

        24       nomination, and we certainly want to thank

        25       Governor Pataki for choosing John Batt.  He's a







                                                             
6917

         1       highly respected attorney in Niagara County and,

         2       as I said earlier, he's earned his way here.  He

         3       is going to serve with distinction on the Family

         4       Court bench and we are absolutely certain that

         5       come November he's going to be elected to a full

         6       four-year term.

         7                      So, Mr. President, I would ask my

         8       colleagues to accept my recommendation of Judge

         9       Batt and unanimously confirm him.

        10                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

        12       Senator wishing to speak on the nomination?

        13       Hearing none, the question is on the nomination

        14       of John F. Batt, of North Tonawanda, to become

        15       the judge of the Niagara County Family Court.

        16       All those in favor of the nomination signify by

        17       saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      The nominee is unanimously

        22       confirmed.

        23                      We're very pleased to have now

        24       Judge Batt with us in the chamber seated to your

        25       left, along with his wife Carol Ann, his in-laws







                                                             
6918

         1       Louis and Rita Szot, and Ronald and Cynthia Szot

         2       and a good friend, Michael Norris.

         3                      Judge, congratulations.

         4                      (Applause)

         5                      Secretary will continue to read.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         7       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         8       following nomination: Judge of the Madison

         9       County Court, Biagio Joseph DiStefano, of

        10       Eaton.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Lack.

        13                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Senator

        14       Kuhl.

        15                      I rise to second the nomination

        16       of Biagio DiStefano, of Eaton, as judge of the

        17       Madison County Court.  His credentials have been

        18       examined by the staff of the committee, appear

        19       to be in order.  He appeared before the

        20       committee this morning and was unanimously

        21       referred by the committee to the Legislature -

        22       of the Senate and, in the absence of Senator

        23       Hoffmann, I would respectfully yield to Senator

        24       DeFrancisco for purposes of seconding.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair







                                                             
6919

         1       recognizes Senator DeFrancisco, on the

         2       nomination.

         3                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Mr.

         4       President, it's with great honor that I rise to

         5       support and speak on behalf of the nomination of

         6       Mr. DiStefano.

         7                      You know, it's very interesting

         8       that we look at these nominations all the time

         9       and we always talk about we want to have

        10       qualified people for the positions.  There could

        11       be no more qualified individual than Mr.

        12       DiStefano for Family Court.  He's been a hearing

        13       examiner in Madison County for Family Court

        14       matters since 1985, 12 years, hearing over

        15       25,000 cases.  Most judges don't have that

        16       experience in a -- in their full term.

        17                      To have a person of this quality

        18       and this experience for this position is a great

        19       tribute to Governor Pataki in his process of

        20       nominating qualified individuals.

        21                      More importantly even than his

        22       experience as a hearing examiner, is his

        23       reputation for being a quality person, a fair

        24       individual, and someone who is going to honor

        25       the court system by giving everyone a fair shake







                                                             
6920

         1       who comes before him.

         2                      He comes in a great tradition of

         3       fine judges in that community, many of whom I

         4       appear before.  I'm looking forward to seeing

         5       Judge DiStefano hearing cases as a Family Court

         6       judge in the fine county of Madison and the

         7       county seat Wampsville.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there

         9       any other Senator wishing to speak on the

        10       nomination?  Hearing none, the question is on

        11       the nomination of Biagio Joseph DiStefano, of

        12       Eaton, to become the judge of the Madison County

        13       Court.  All those in favor of the nomination,

        14       signify by saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      The nominee is confirmed.  We're

        19       very, very pleased to have Judge DiStefano

        20       together with his wife Sue, children Kristen and

        21       Blaze, and some friends with us in the chamber

        22       seated to your left.  Please welcome them.

        23                      Judge, good luck.

        24                      (Applause)

        25                      Secretary will continue to read.







                                                             
6921

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         2       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         3       following nomination: Judge of the Allegany

         4       County Court, James E. Euken, of Belmont.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

         6       recognizes Senator Lack, on the nomination.

         7                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      I rise to support the nomination

        10       of James E. Euken, of Belmont, as judge of the

        11       Allegany County Court.  As with our other

        12       judicial nominees this morning, Mr. Euken has

        13       appeared before the committee.  His credentials

        14       have been examined.  He personally attended a

        15       committee meeting this morning, was unanimously

        16       moved from the Committee to the floor of the

        17       Senate, and it's with great pleasure that I

        18       yield to Senator Present for purposes of a

        19       second.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        21       recognizes Senator Present, on the nomination.

        22                      SENATOR PRESENT:  Thank you,

        23       Senator Lack.

        24                      Mr. President, I rise

        25       enthusiastically to move the confirmation of a







                                                             
6922

         1       good friend and colleague, the Honorable James

         2       E. Euken, of Belmont, to the position of

         3       Allegany County Court judge.

         4                      Jim not only possesses the

         5       intellect, judgment, temperament and character

         6       for this position, he also has more than 20

         7       years experience in the legal profession.

         8                      In February 1972, Jim Euken was

         9       admitted to the New York State Bar Association,

        10       Fourth Judicial Department, and began his career

        11       as a partner in private law practice in the

        12       Wellsville area.  During the same period, Jim

        13       Euken also served as public defender in Allegany

        14       County.

        15                      In November 1983, Mr. Euken was

        16       elected Allegany County District Attorney and

        17       was elected and reelected in '87, '91 and '95.

        18       On behalf of the Allegany County 50,000

        19       residents, Jim first prosecuted cases from their

        20       preliminary stages through appeal to -- in 40

        21       local courts, County Court, the Appellate

        22       Division and the Court of Appeals.

        23                      He has received numerous

        24       citations for his service to the public.  Jim

        25       Euken is the past president and member of the







                                                             
6923

         1       Executive Committee of the Allegany County Bar

         2       Association and has been a lecturer at various

         3       seminars conducted by the New York State Welfare

         4       Fraud Investigators Association.

         5                      It is indeed an honor and a

         6       privilege for me to move for the confirmation of

         7       the Honorable James E. Euken as Allegany County

         8       judge.  I know his impeccable credentials and

         9       record of service to the public will enrich the

        10       civil and criminal justice system in Allegany

        11       County.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Any

        13       other Senator wishing to speak on the

        14       nomination?  Question is on the nomination.  All

        15       in favor of nominating James Euken of Belmont

        16       for the judge of the Allegany County Court

        17       signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Motion is approved.

        22                      Judge Euken, congratulations.  He

        23       joins with us today in the chamber with his wife

        24       Molly and his daughter Caitlin.

        25                      Congratulations, Judge.







                                                             
6924

         1                      (Applause)

         2                      Senator Lack.  Secretary will

         3       read.  I'm sorry.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         5       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         6       following nomination: Judge of the Surrogate's

         7       Court of Steuben County, Joseph W. Latham, of

         8       Canisteo.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Now, Senator Lack.

        11                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      I rise to move the nomination of

        14       Joseph W. Latham, of Canisteo, as Surrogate of

        15       Steuben County.  Again, as with our other

        16       nominees, he's been -- his credentials have been

        17       examined by the staff of the committee, have

        18       been found to be of superior knowledge.  He

        19       appeared before the committee this morning, was

        20       unanimously moved by the committee to the floor

        21       of the Senate, and it's with great pleasure that

        22       I yield to Senator Kuhl for purposes of a

        23       second.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        25       Chair recognizes Senator Kuhl.







                                                             
6925

         1                      SENATOR KUHL:  Thank you, Mr.

         2       President, and thank you, Senator Lack.  It's my

         3       pleasure -- indeed my pleasure and privilege to

         4       be able to stand before the members of this body

         5       to nominate or second the nomination of Joseph

         6       W. Latham to a position of Surrogate judge in

         7       Steuben County.

         8                      As many of those residents of

         9       upstate New York know, when you're elected or

        10       nominated and appointed and confirmed to a

        11       position such as the Surrogate judge in a

        12       county, it's not only that position that you

        13       fill, but you fill several others.  In Steuben

        14       County it's a three-hatted judgeship, if you

        15       will, because the person who serves as a

        16       Surrogate judge also serves in Family Court and

        17       also serves in the County Court, which means

        18       that they deal with not only family matters but

        19       criminal matters and civil matters and also

        20       estate matters.

        21                      It takes a person of a wide

        22       ranging background, certainly a great deal of

        23       experience and a great deal of intellect and

        24       integrity.  Joseph W. Latham brings that to the

        25       position of Surrogate judge in Steuben County,







                                                             
6926

         1       so it's my privilege to nominate and second the

         2       nomination again of a friend, an adversary on

         3       many occasions, and a colleague on certainly

         4       many more.

         5                      Joseph, it's my pleasure again to

         6       second the nomination.  Good luck in your

         7       future.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Any

         9       other Senator wishing to be heard on this

        10       nomination?

        11                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Stafford.

        15                      SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't want to

        16       repeat what Senator Kuhl has said so well, but I

        17       think it's very nice to point out that I believe

        18       it would have been this gentleman's great aunt

        19       who served here in the Senate for over, believe

        20       it or not, 50 years, and served a number of

        21       people in the Senate, and she was very, very

        22       proud of her family, and it was Helen Darling,

        23       and, as I say, it's a pleasure for me to move,

        24       together with Senator Kuhl, a relative of

        25       Helen's who was here for so many years and so







                                                             
6927

         1       well respected, and I'm sure that what Senator

         2       Kuhl said is completely accurate.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Any

         4       other Senators wishing to be heard?  Question is

         5       on the nomination of Joseph W. Latham, of

         6       Canisteo, for judge of the Surrogate's Court of

         7       Steuben County.  All in favor signify by saying

         8       aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      The nominee is confirmed.

        13                      The judge -- congratulations,

        14       Judge Latham.  The judge is joined by his wife

        15       Margaret and Aunt Margaret Marian, cousins

        16       Chilton, Caitlin and Alexandria Latham, and

        17       family friends, Bill and Donna Hatch.

        18                      Judge, congratulations and good

        19       luck.

        20                      (Applause)

        21                      Senator Skelos, may we move to

        22       the next order of business?

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Are there any

        24       communications and reports from standing

        25       committees?







                                                             
6928

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  We

         2       have privileged resolutions we'd like to read.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  We'll go to

         4       motions and resolutions, and I believe there is

         5       a privileged resolution by Senator Farley.  I

         6       ask that the title be read -- read the entire

         7       resolution, and then move for its immediate

         8       adoption, and then recognize Senator Farley.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        12       Farley, Legislative Resolution honoring Lisa

        13       Esler, upon the occasion of being named Miss New

        14       York State.

        15                      WHEREAS, the state of New York

        16       takes great pride in acknowledging outstanding

        17       individuals who distinguish themselves in

        18       service to their community and who serve as an

        19       inspiration to their friends, family and peers;

        20       and

        21                      WHEREAS, Lisa Esler, of North

        22       ville, New York, was crowned Miss New York State

        23       on Saturday, June 28, 1997; as Miss Fulton

        24       County, Lisa Esler won this esteemed annual

        25       pageant which was held in Watertown, New York.







                                                             
6929

         1       She will go on to represent New York State in

         2       the Miss America Pageant this September in

         3       Atlantic city; and

         4                      WHEREAS, in winning the Miss New

         5       York State scholarship pageant, Lisa Esler

         6       competed against 17 talented young women from

         7       across the state for the title which includes a

         8       $9,000 scholarship and the opportunity to

         9       compete for the Miss America title;

        10                      This talented and dedicated

        11       individual, currently a pre-med student at the

        12       State University of New York at Binghamton, is

        13       pursuing an undergraduate degree in both

        14       Chemistry and Biology;

        15                      In addition to receiving the

        16       prestigious title of Miss New York State, Lisa

        17       Esler has received scholarships from both the

        18       Miss New York State pageant and the Miss Fulton

        19       County Scholarship pageant.  Upon completion of

        20       her duties as Miss New York State next year, she

        21       will reassume her studies in hopes of becoming

        22       an orthopedic surgeon.

        23                      Lisa Esler has assumed the unique

        24       public relations role that comes with being

        25       named Miss New York State.  She will use her







                                                             
6930

         1       position to reach out to young people about the

         2       serious problems that arise from alcohol abuse

         3       and will be speaking to children in elementary

         4       schools during her statewide appearance tour.

         5                      In addition to her notable

         6       academic endeavors, this committed individual

         7       has dedicated much of her time and talents to

         8       volunteer service in area hospitals, as well as

         9       the Children's Miracle Network, among others.

        10       Lisa Esler is also an accomplished singer, and

        11       performed "Memory" from the musical "Cats"

        12       during the Miss New York State pageant.

        13                      Lisa Esler is also a member of a

        14       loving and close-knit family.  Her proud and

        15       supportive parents, Celina and Richard Esler, as

        16       well as her brother David and sister Valerie,

        17       share in her excitement over the opportunities

        18       presented by this esteemed award; and,

        19                      WHEREAS, this outstanding young

        20       woman, who has accomplished so much and is

        21       graced with talent and intelligence as well as a

        22       belief in herself and in humankind, will serve

        23       as a positive role model for young people and an

        24       exceptional representative of New York State;

        25       her message of hard work, commitment and







                                                             
6931

         1       responsibility presents a timely lesson to the

         2       youth of today.

         3                      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED

         4       that this legislative body pause in its

         5       deliberations to commend Lisa Esler upon being

         6       crowned Miss New York State for 1997-1998 and to

         7       wish her continued success as she represents the

         8       state of New York in the upcoming Miss America

         9       pageant; and

        10                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a

        11       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be

        12       transmitted to Lisa Esler of Northville, New

        13       York, along with our sincere congratulations.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Chair

        15       recognizes Senator Farley, on the resolution.

        16                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

        17       President.

        18                      Along with Assemblyman Marc

        19       Butler of Fulton County, it is indeed a pleasure

        20       to brighten up this chamber with this

        21       magnificent young lady, Lisa Esler, who is Miss

        22       New York State going on to the Miss America

        23       pageant, I believe it's September 13th, and

        24       everybody here -- and Senator Smith says we're

        25       all going to be cheering for her, and I know







                                                             
6932

         1       that she's an outstanding candidate.

         2                      Let me just say a couple words

         3       about her and her family.  Incidentally, her

         4       mother is right -- seated right over here,

         5       Celina Esler, and, of course, the pageant

         6       director, Diane Scribner, is also with us.

         7                      But let me just say something

         8       about Lisa.  She was number two in her class at

         9       Northville High School and, as a professor, let

        10       me tell you that with a double major of

        11       Chemistry and Biology, she is pursuing one of

        12       the most difficult academic disciplines in our

        13       great State University of New York at

        14       Binghamton.

        15                      Miss Esler is also a talented

        16       singer.  She is also a person that is -- cares

        17       about our children and pursuing alcohol abuse in

        18       the family, and it is with a great deal of

        19       pleasure and thrill that we have her here in

        20       this chamber, and I know that everyone here

        21       wishes her well and knows that she's going to go

        22       on to Atlantic City and do New York State

        23       proud.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

        25       Senator wishing to speak on the resolution?







                                                             
6933

         1       Hearing none, the question is on the

         2       resolution.  All those in favor signify by

         3       saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed nay.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      The resolution is unanimously

         8       adopted.

         9                      Lisa, we're very, very pleased

        10       that you chose today to come and spend a few

        11       moments of your life with us.  We wish you well

        12       and will all be rootin' for you in Atlantic

        13       City.  Knock 'em dead.

        14                      (Applause)

        15                      MISS ESLER:  Thank you.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Skelos.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

        19       believe there's a privileged resolution at the

        20       desk by Senator Alesi.  I ask that the title be

        21       read and move for its immediate adoption.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        23       will read the title to the privileged resolution

        24       2097 by Senator Alesi.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator Alesi,







                                                             
6934

         1       Legislative Resolution 2097, congratulating Mr.

         2       and Mrs. Thomas Griffo upon the occasion of

         3       their 50th Wedding Anniversary.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

         5       is on the resolution.  All those in favor

         6       signify by saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed nay.

         9                      (There was no response. )

        10                      The resolution is adopted.

        11       Senator Skelos.

        12                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        13       there will be an immediate meeting of the

        14       Finance Committee in the Majority Conference

        15       Room.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Immediate

        17       meeting of the Finance Committee, immediate

        18       meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332,

        19       the Majority Conference Room.

        20                      Senator Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        22       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Skelos, we have a privileged resolution by

        25       Senator Gentile at the desk.







                                                             
6935

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Please read the

         2       title and move its immediate adoption.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the title to the privileged resolution

         5       by Senator Gentile.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         7       Gentile, Legislative Resolution applauding A

         8       web Internet services' creation of the Asian

         9       Community Bulletin Board website.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Question

        11       is on the resolution.  All those in favor say

        12       aye.

        13                      (Response of "Aye.")

        14                      Opposed nay.

        15                      (There was no response.)

        16                      The resolution is adopted.

        17                      We also have some motions if

        18       you'd like to take that up at this point in

        19       time.

        20                      Chair recognizes Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                      On behalf of Senator Leibell, on

        25       page number 4, I offer the following amendments







                                                             
6936

         1       to 1168, Senate Print Number 3215-A, and ask

         2       that said bill retain its place on the Third

         3       Reading Calendar.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         5       Amendments are received and adopted.  Bill will

         6       retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

         7                      Senator Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         9       President, on behalf of Senator Velella, I wish

        10       to call up his bill, Print Number 3242, recalled

        11       from the Assembly which is now at the desk.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        13       will read.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        15       344, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3242, an

        16       act to amend the Insurance Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Marcellino.

        19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        20       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by

        21       which the bill was passed and ask that the bill

        22       be restored to the order of third reading.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        24       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll on







                                                             
6937

         1       reconsideration.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marcellino, the bill is restored, before the

         5       house.

         6                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         7       President, I now offer the following

         8       amendments.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        10       Amendments are received and adopted.

        11                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        12       President, I now move to discharge the Committee

        13       on Rules from Assembly Print Number 5700-A and

        14       substitute it for Senator Velella's identical

        15       bill.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        17       Substitution is ordered.

        18                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I have

        19       Senator Tully, he had the Finance.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I wish to

        23       call up Senator Skelos' bill, Print Number 3208,

        24       from the Assembly which is now at the desk.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary







                                                             
6938

         1       will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       479, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3208, an

         4       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Marcellino.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         8       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by

         9       which this bill was passed.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        11       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        13       reconsideration.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marcellino.

        17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I offer the

        18       following amendments.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        20       Amendments are received and adopted.

        21                      Senator Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  On behalf of

        23       Senator Rath I wish to call up her bill, Print

        24       Number 3802-A, recalled from the Assembly which

        25       is now at the desk.







                                                             
6939

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         2       will read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       823, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3802-A, an

         5       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         9       President, I now move to reconsider vote by

        10       which this bill was passed.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        13                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        14       reconsideration.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Marcellino.

        18                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        19       President, I now offer the following

        20       amendments.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        22       Amendments are received and adopted.

        23                      Senator Marcellino.

        24                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: On behalf of

        25       Senator Maziarz, I wish to call up Print Number







                                                             
6940

         1       4982, recalled from the Assembly which is now at

         2       the desk.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         4       will read the title.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar 758, by

         6       Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4982, an act to

         7       amend the Real Property Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Marcellino.

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now move

        11       to reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        12       pad.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion to

        14       reconsider the vote by which the bill passed the

        15       house.  Secretary will call the roll on

        16       reconsideration.

        17                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        18       reconsideration.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now offer

        23       the following amendments.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Amendments are received and adopted.







                                                             
6941

         1                      Senator Marcellino.

         2                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: I wish to

         3       call up Senator Levy's bill, Print Number 4234,

         4       recalled from the Assembly which is knew at the

         5       desk.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         7       will read the title.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       991, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4234, an act

        10       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Marcellino.

        13                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now move

        14       to reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        15       passed.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        17       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Marcellino.

        21                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        22       President, I now offer the following

        23       amendments.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Amendments are received and adopted.







                                                             
6942

         1                      Finally, Senator Marcellino.

         2                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Oh, no.

         3       More.

         4                      On behalf of Senator Seward, I

         5       wish to call up his bill, Print Number 4790,

         6       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

         7       desk.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

         9       will read the title.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1083, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4790, an

        12       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Marcellino.

        15                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: I now move to

        16       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

        17       passed.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        19       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        20                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        21       reconsideration.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Marcellino.

        25                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: I now offer







                                                             
6943

         1       the following amendments.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         3       Amendments are received and adopted.

         4                      Senator Marcellino.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  On behalf of

         6       Senator Spano, I wish to call up his bill, Print

         7       Number 2487, recalled from the Assembly which is

         8       now at the desk.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        10       will read the title.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1398, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2487, an

        13       act to amend the Correction Law.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Marcellino.

        16                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now move

        17       to reconsider the vote by which the bill

        18       passed.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        20       will call the roll on reconsideration.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        22       reconsideration.)

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Marcellino.







                                                             
6944

         1                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now offer

         2       the following amendments.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Amendments are received and adopted.

         5                      And finally Senator Marcellino.

         6                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  As always I

         7       save the best for last, sir.

         8                      On behalf of Senator Libous, I

         9       wish to call up Print Number 4473, recalled from

        10       the Assembly which is now at the desk.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Secretary

        12       will read the title.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1078, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4473, an

        15       act to authorize the town of Richford.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Marcellino.

        18                      SENATOR MARCELLINO: I now move to

        19       reconsider the vote by which this bill was

        20       passed.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Motion is

        22       to reconsider the vote by which the bill passed

        23       the house.  Secretary will call the roll on

        24       reconsideration.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll on







                                                             
6945

         1       reconsideration.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 45.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marcellino.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         6       President, I now offer the following

         7       amendments.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         9       Amendments are received and adopted.

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

        11       sir.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Skelos.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        15       the Senate will stand at ease pending the report

        16       of the Finance Committee.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senate

        18       will stand at ease pending the report of the

        19       Finance Committee.

        20                      (At 12:47 p.m., the Senate stood

        21       at ease until 1:05 p.m.)

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        23       If we could return to nominations, I believe

        24       there's one more nomination to be taken up by

        25       Senator Lack from the Judiciary Committee.







                                                             
6946

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Yes, Senator Skelos, there is.  Secretary will

         3       read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         5       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         6       following nomination: Judge of the Otsego County

         7       Family Court, Brian D. Burns, of Oneonta.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Senator Lack.

        10                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.  I rise to move the nomination as the

        12       judge of the Otsego County Court of Brian D.

        13       Burns of Oneonta.

        14                      I'd just like to thank Mr. Burns

        15       and his family for waiting for Senator Seward

        16       who wanted to speak on his behalf.  He had

        17       obligations of a conference committee.  Thank

        18       Senator Seward for getting here, and there's

        19       always that kind of problem, for the record.

        20                      Mr. Burns' qualifications have

        21       been examined by the staff of the Judiciary

        22       Committee.  They've been found to be of the

        23       highest caliber.  He appeared before the

        24       committee this morning and was unanimously moved

        25       from the committee to the floor, and I would







                                                             
6947

         1       most respectfully yield, Mr. President, to

         2       Senator Seward for purposes of a second.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator Seward.

         5                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Thank you, Mr.

         6       President and Senator Lack.

         7                      It's with a great deal of

         8       personal pride that I rise to second the

         9       confirmation of Brian D. Burns to be Otsego

        10       County Court judge.

        11                      I've known Brian Burns for a

        12       number of years.  He's eminently well qualified

        13       to assume this new responsibility.  Mr. Burns

        14       has served as an assistant district attorney in

        15       Otsego County, as well as chief assistant

        16       district attorney and acting district attorney.

        17       He currently is the Oneonta city prosecutor and

        18       in that capacity and throughout his career, Mr.

        19       Burns has given special attention, the way I

        20       would describe it special attention to the

        21       victims of crime, not only prosecuting the

        22       defendant but being sensitive to the victim of

        23       the crime, and that's -- that says a lot in

        24       terms of the type of individual that Brian Burns

        25       is.







                                                             
6948

         1                      In addition to his career as a

         2       prosecutor, Mr. Burns is a practicing attorney

         3       in Oneonta with the firm of Bookhout & Burns,

         4       and also is a professor for upper level

         5       management courses in business law at Hartwick

         6       College.

         7                      In Otsego County, we have what's

         8       called a three-hatted judge.  The County Court

         9       judge deals with the criminal matters, Surrogate

        10       as well as Family Court, and it's a special -

        11       takes a special individual to assume that type

        12       of responsibility, and Brian Burns is that

        13       special individual.

        14                      He's a man of integrity,

        15       intelligence.  He's hard working.  His

        16       professional abilities are unquestioned.  He's

        17       an experienced prosecutor.  He is going to make

        18       an outstanding County Court judge, and I'm very

        19       pleased to rise to support his confirmation and

        20       also to congratulate the Governor for making an

        21       outstanding choice and also congratulate Brian

        22       and his wife Elizabeth, who is joining him in

        23       the gallery today and, of course, there are

        24       three small children who are back at home

        25       today.







                                                             
6949

         1                      It's -- it's going to -- today is

         2       going to be the beginning of what I know will be

         3       a long and distinguished judicial career for

         4       Brian Burns and on behalf of myself and more

         5       importantly the community-at-large back in

         6       Otsego County, I'm very pleased to rise and

         7       support his confirmation.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Thank you, Senator Seward.

        10                      Is there any other Senator

        11       wishing to be heard on the nomination?  The

        12       question is on the nomination of Brian D. Burns,

        13       of Oneonta, as judge of the Otsego County

        14       Court.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      The nomination is confirmed

        19       unanimously.

        20                      Judge Burns, congratulations.  We

        21       know you're joined here by your wife Elizabeth

        22       and your parents, John and Barbara Burns.

        23       Congratulations once again, and much success.

        24                      (Applause) Senator Skelos.

        25                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I







                                                             
6950

         1       believe there's a report of the Finance

         2       Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be read at

         3       this time.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       There is a report of the Finance Committee at

         6       the desk, and the Secretary will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         8       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         9       following nomination:

        10                      Trustee of the Power Authority of

        11       the state of New York, Frank S. McCullough, Jr.,

        12       Esq., of Rye.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Stafford.

        15                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        16       I have said this before this session, but when

        17       it's true I think it should be said.  Once again

        18       a nominee appeared before us today who was

        19       nominated by the Governor to be a trustee of the

        20       Power Authority who is a distinguished citizen

        21       of Westchester County, and I'm speaking on

        22       behalf of Senator Spano, but I think he will be

        23       coming in, but I just want to emphasize again

        24       that the nominee certainly acquitted himself

        25       just as well as anyone could before the







                                                             
6951

         1       committee.

         2                      He has a distinguished record in

         3       his profession, and as I mentioned that despite

         4       where he went to college which is a small school

         5       up in the north, we, of course, can't say enough

         6       good about him, but I will now yield to the

         7       Senator from Westchester, who I'm sure will be

         8       most effective as always.

         9                      Senator Spano.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Senator Spano is recognized.

        12                      SENATOR SPANO:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President, Senator Stafford.

        14                      It's my pleasure to second the

        15       nomination of Frank McCullough as a trustee of

        16       the Power Authority of the state of New York.

        17                      I've known Frank McCullough for a

        18       number of years, a person who is uniquely

        19       qualified to serve in this unpaid position as a

        20       member of the Power Authority.  He has

        21       volunteered on a pro bono basis for a number of

        22       charitable activities in Westchester County, has

        23       demonstrated his commitment to our community in

        24       Westchester, is a successful attorney, someone

        25       who understands the important role that he will







                                                             
6952

         1       play as a member of the Power Authority, and

         2       it's -- and it's my pleasure to second the

         3       nomination, congratulate the Governor on an

         4       excellent appointment of someone who admits that

         5       he may not know everything about the Power

         6       Authority and power in the state of New York,

         7       but is a very quick learner and is eager to

         8       learn and is willing to listen, and that is -

         9       those are the attributes of a person that will

        10       do very well in making sure that the issues, the

        11       important issues that he will deal with as a

        12       trustee of the Power Authority will be heard and

        13       will be dealt with effectively and efficiently.

        14                      So it's my pleasure to second the

        15       nomination of Frank McCullough.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Any

        17       other Senator wishing to be heard?

        18                      Senator Oppenheimer.

        19                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Yes.  Frank

        20       McCullough lives in my Senate District, and I

        21       think we are very fortunate that he does live in

        22       my Senate District.  He is a person who has

        23       gained great respect professionally, having a

        24       very fine and respected law firm.  He has gained

        25       respect both personally, not just professionally







                                                             
6953

         1       but personally for the character and the quality

         2       gentleman that he is.  He has gained respect for

         3       the kinds of philanthropic and civic work that

         4       he has done in our community, ranging across the

         5       board from presidencies of civic groups and

         6       hospital groups and just been an immensely

         7       caring and giving man.

         8                      He is also respected as a

         9       wonderful family man with three children, and

        10       all have done beautifully.  So I think that

        11       personally, professionally we have an

        12       extraordinary man here and, as my father once

        13       said, you can tell the intelligence of someone

        14       by how well they listen and how well they're

        15       willing to say, "I don't know that answer but

        16       I'll be happy to research it," and I think we

        17       have that, character of that man, that type of

        18       person here and so we're very fortunate that he

        19       will be willing to serve on the Power

        20       Authority.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Any

        22       other Senator wishing to be heard on the

        23       nomination?  Question is on the nomination of

        24       Frank S. McCullough as trustee of the Power

        25       Authority.  All in favor signify by saying aye.







                                                             
6954

         1                      (Response of "Aye.")

         2                      All opposed nay.

         3                      (There was no response.)

         4                      The nomination is confirmed.

         5                      Mr. McCullough, we congratulate

         6       you on the nomination.  We know you're joined by

         7       your wife Corky, your daughter Christine Brown.

         8       Congratulations once again, and much success.

         9                      (Applause)

        10                      Secretary will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        12       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        13       following bills direct to third reading:

        14                      Senate Print 5704, by the Senate

        15       Committee on Rules, and Senate Print 5705, by

        16       the Senate Committee on Rules, an act making

        17       appropriations for the support of government.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Without objection, third reading.

        20                      Senator Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        22       would you call up Calendar 1532.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                             
6955

         1       1532, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         2       Print 5704, an act making appropriations for the

         3       support of government.

         4                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

         5       message of appropriation and necessity at the

         6       desk?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Yes, there is a message of appropriation and

         9       necessity at the desk.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Question is on the motion.  All those in favor

        13       signify by saying aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye.")

        15                      Opposed nay.

        16                      (There was no response. )

        17                      The messages are accepted.

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Last section.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Read the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 13.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Call the roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll. )







                                                             
6956

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Senator -

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just a point

         4       of order.  Is this Calendar 5704?  I wanted to

         5       make sure.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  5704, Calendar

         7       1532.

         8                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Announce the results.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47, nays

        13       one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the

        14       negative.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Skelos.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Call up 1533,

        20       Print 5705.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       1533, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        25       5705, an act making appropriations for the







                                                             
6957

         1       support of government.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         3       is there a message of appropriation and

         4       necessity at the desk?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Yes, Senator Skelos, there is.

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Motion is to accept the message of necessity and

        10       appropriation.  All in favor signify by saying

        11       aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Opposed nay.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      Messages are accepted, Senator.

        16       Read the last section.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Call the roll.

        21                      (The Secretary called the roll. )

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Can

        23       we count the negatives and announce the results,

        24       please.

        25                      Senator Hoffmann, to explain her







                                                             
6958

         1       vote.

         2                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                      I recognize this is a small and

         5       very futile statement to make, but we are in the

         6       middle of July.  We have not passed a budget

         7       yet.  We have been doing this rather ridiculous

         8       process of one week extenders which have now

         9       become an institutionalized late budget, and yet

        10       there are no ongoing discussions by the

        11       individual members of the Legislature about the

        12       state's budget, not in any Finance Committees,

        13       not in the sub-categories, transportation,

        14       social services, mental hygiene, agriculture.

        15       The many committees that are appointed by the

        16       leadership of this chamber and the other chamber

        17       should be earnestly discussing the budget and

        18       looking for ways that we can meet our

        19       obligations, our sworn responsibility to the

        20       taxpayers of this state.

        21                      I can not, in clear conscience,

        22       sanction the notion that here on auto-pilot we

        23       as sitting members of the Legislature should

        24       continue to draw our own salaries, so I would

        25       just like the record to reflect at least for the







                                                             
6959

         1       people of the 48th Senate District, who seem to

         2       be paying attention to this process, that I

         3       would like to vote in the negative on the matter

         4       of legislators being paid in the absence of a

         5       state budget after this long a duration.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Senator Hoffmann will be recorded in the

         8       negative.

         9                      Senator Stafford, to explain his

        10       voted.

        11                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Mr. President,

        12       I have a great deal of respect for the fine

        13       Senator who just spoke, so now I'll just take

        14       the other tack, which is always good to balance

        15       things out, and I would just point out first

        16       that, you know, we have 211 people in the

        17       Legislature and if 211 people just want to do

        18       what they want to do, we'd get nothing done.

        19                      When I first got here, I didn't

        20       like the seniority system.  I've been very

        21       enamored with it in the last couple of years.

        22       Things change but, on a serious note, we have to

        23       have a system and we have to have a leader and

        24       the leader has a constituency and, Mr.

        25       President, there isn't one person in the







                                                             
6960

         1       Legislature that can't give input toward these

         2       negotiations, and I assure you, many are.

         3                      It would be good if we could have

         4       a conference committee of 211 people.

         5       Unfortunately, that doesn't work.  It is not

         6       practical.  I would say that, yes, I agree there

         7       should be a budget.  We're working toward a

         8       budget, but I'm not going to hesitate to say

         9       that this is a very complex state.  I'm not

        10       making excuses.  I'm just stating fact, and we

        11       have people that represent districts that are

        12       180 degrees different.  Frankly, that's one of

        13       the strengths of this state, and we have the

        14       intellect, the sensitivity and the decency to

        15       live together and have the Empire State and the

        16       best state in the nation.

        17                      And finally, Mr. President, let

        18       me share this.  To the Governor's credit, to the

        19       Majority Leader's credit, Senator Bruno, to the

        20       Speaker's credit, Speaker Silver, and the people

        21       in the Assembly and the people in the Senate, we

        22       are passing legislation which keeps the

        23       government functioning.  People are being paid.

        24       Bills are being paid while we hammer out a

        25       budget on the anvil of discussion, sensitivity,







                                                             
6961

         1       decency, compassion and, shall I say, patience,

         2       and I'm the first one to say that is tested.  I

         3       understand that.  But I think that should be

         4       said also and, Mr. President, again, everyone

         5       has an opportunity for input with their fiscal

         6       committees, Ways and Means, Senate Finance

         7       Committee, the Majority Leader's office, the

         8       Speaker and, with that, Mr. President, I would

         9       hope that we could pass the legislation and yes,

        10       I too look forward to a budget and we will

        11       continue to work toward that end.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Gold, to explain his vote.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  Is that what we're

        16       up to?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       That's what you're up to.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'd like to

        20       explain my vote.

        21                      With great admiration for Senator

        22       Stafford -- and that is not said sarcastically;

        23       that is said sincerely -- I have a little bit of

        24       a disagreement with him in terms of everybody

        25       having input and patience and all of that.







                                                             
6962

         1                      Senator, in my book, if a lot of

         2       people around here would mind their own business

         3       and let you be the chairman of Finance and let

         4       "Denny" Farrell be the chairman of Ways and

         5       Means and if we had a committee and we held the

         6       hearings and we had the conference committees, I

         7       think we'd have a budget.

         8                      I think that one thing I can say

         9       is that Mario Cuomo, if he -- you want to say he

        10       had a worse day, had more dedication to getting

        11       a budget than George Pataki in his dreams.

        12       There's been no leadership.  I mean I hear we're

        13       passing a one-week extender today and somebody

        14       said we're going to get a six-week extender next

        15       week.

        16                      Somebody has got to wake up this

        17       Governor.  We need a budget.  Now, if the

        18       Governor wants to buy one of the great American

        19       newspapers, the Daily News -- and it is -- and

        20       instead of using the editorial page for the

        21       kitty litter box, which most of us do when you

        22       read it, then I guess you can blame Shelly

        23       Silver; but the fact is the Governor gave an in

        24       adequate budget this year; the Governor gave an

        25       inadequate budget last year.  He shows no







                                                             
6963

         1       leadership; he doesn't drag people together and

         2       everybody knows it.  So why are we horsing

         3       around?

         4                      And as far as everybody having

         5       input and everybody doing their job, I will do

         6       this and take my pay because my pay is to

         7       protect the people from George Pataki's budget

         8       and that's what I do.  That's what I get paid

         9       for, so I don't have any problem voting for that

        10       but, Senator Stafford, I know that you are one

        11       of the hardest working people, one of the most

        12       sincere people.  Why don't you give a message

        13       down there that instead of them preoccupying

        14       themselves with whatever it is they're doing

        15       they ought to get this budget done or if they

        16       don't do it, let Ronnie Stafford, Manny Gold,

        17       "Denny" Farrell, Faso, Senator Hoffmann,

        18       Senator Oppenheimer, all the members of the

        19       committee, we'll do the budget if they can't get

        20       to it.

        21                      I vote yes.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        25       Senator Dollinger, to explain his vote.







                                                             
6964

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President, I have voted consistently against

         3       this measure, and I'm going to continue to do

         4       that.  I vote against the continuing resolution

         5       because that's really where we are, Senator

         6       Gold.

         7                      We -- it's -- I feel there is an

         8       interesting political metamorphosis going on

         9       here in Albany.  We're starting to look more

        10       like Washington.  We don't pass a budget, we

        11       just pass continuing resolutions.  We just keep

        12       rolling the government forward, and we never

        13       actually sit down and come to the hard decisions

        14       about what we ought to spend and what we ought

        15       not to spend, and so what I find so interesting

        16       is that we're rolling toward Washington and yet

        17       the one thing that Washington has that we don't

        18       have, and Senator Gold properly pointed out, are

        19       empowered conference committees, empowered

        20       chairmen of committees.

        21                      Senator Stafford, you're the

        22       chairman of the Finance Committee.  As far as

        23       I'm concerned, you ought to be at the seat, at

        24       the table pounding out those numbers, figuring

        25       out what we're going to spend, figuring out what







                                                             
6965

         1       we're going to do.  You should be working in

         2       conjunction with Assemblyman Farrell, the

         3       director of the -- the chairman of the Ways and

         4       Means Committee in the Assembly.  I would

         5       include Senator Gold and Mr. Faso from the

         6       Assembly, because you're the four or five guys

         7       who should know the numbers and should be able

         8       to bring to your leadership what the numbers

         9       ought to look like.

        10                      I've said this with respect to

        11       the chairman of the Health Committee.  He ought

        12       to be empowered by the Legislature, by this

        13       body, to negotiate health issues with the other

        14       chamber and not have to do it through the strong

        15       leadership system.  What I find so fascinating

        16       is that the strong leader system hasn't worked.

        17       It hasn't worked.  It hasn't produced the

        18       compromise for a budget.

        19                      If it isn't working, let's

        20       empower the committees and try what Washington

        21       does.  We're trying continuing resolutions.

        22       We've bought into the Washington approach to the

        23       budget.  Let's buy into the Washington example

        24       of powerful chairmen of committees who can set

        25       the agenda, who can sit down and strike a deal







                                                             
6966

         1       on behalf of their house.  Let's empower the

         2       committees to make them work.  Senator Gold has

         3       a good idea.

         4                      I agree with Senator Hoffmann.  I

         5       think that this issue of legislators' pay,

         6       frankly, from my point of view, the people that

         7       I represent in the 54th Senate District.

         8                      I'm going to vote against it.  I

         9       historically voted against it, but it's a

        10       protest about a powerful leader system that is

        11       dysfunctional.  It's not working.  We're on our

        12       way to trying to do what Washington does with

        13       continuing resolutions.  Let's try and empower

        14       committee chairs as well.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Announce the results, please.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        18       the negative on Calendar Number 1533 are

        19       Senators Alesi, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Maziarz and

        20       Oppenheimer.  Ayes 43, nays 5.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      Senator Skelos.

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        25       if we could continue with the nominations from







                                                             
6967

         1       the Finance Committee.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         5       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         6       following nomination:

         7                      Member of the New York State

         8       Olympic Regional Development Authority, Serge

         9       Lussi, of Lake Placid.

        10                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Move the

        11       nomination, please.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Question is on the nomination of Serge Lussi to

        14       the New York State Olympic Regional Development

        15       Authority.  All those in favor aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Opposed nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The nominee is confirmed.

        20                      The Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        22       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        23       following nomination:

        24                      Member of the Public Employment

        25       Relations Board, Mark A. Abbott, Esq., of Point







                                                             
6968

         1       Lookout.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Question is on the nomination of Mark A. Abbott,

         4       Esq., of Point Lookout, for a term to expire May

         5       31, 2003, as a member of the Public Employment

         6       Relations Board.  All in favor signify by saying

         7       aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The nomination is confirmed.

        12                      Secretary will read.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        14       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        15       following nomination:

        16                      Member of the Advisory Council on

        17       Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services, Bruce

        18       A. Greenwood, of Norwood.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Question is on the nomination of Bruce A.

        21       Greenwood, of, Norwood as a member of the

        22       Advisory Council on Alcohol and Substance

        23       Abuse.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

        24                      (Response of "Aye.")

        25                      Opposed nay.







                                                             
6969

         1                      (There was no response.)

         2                      The nomination is confirmed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         4       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         5       following nomination:

         6                      Member of the Advisory Council to

         7       the Commission on the Quality of Care for the

         8       Mentally Disabled, Grace E. Clench, of

         9       Brentwood.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  The

        11       question is on the nomination of Grace E.

        12       Clench, of Brentwood, as a member of the

        13       Advisory Council to the Commission on the

        14       Quality of Care for the mentally Disabled.  All

        15       in favor signify by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Opposed nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The nomination is confirmed.

        20                      Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        22       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        23       following nominations:

        24                      Members of the Citizen's Policy

        25       and Complaint Review Council, Brian W. Cotter,







                                                             
6970

         1       of Rensselaer, and E. Robert Czaplicki, of

         2       Syracuse.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Question is on the nominations of Brian W.

         5       Cotter and E. Robert Czaplicki, as members of

         6       the Citizen's Complaint and Policy Review

         7       Council.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      The nominations are confirmed.

        12                      Secretary will read.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        14       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        15       following nomination:

        16                      Member of the Mental Health

        17       Services Council, Jeffrey Davis, of Binghamton.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Motion is to confirm the nomination of Jeffrey

        20       Davis, of Binghamton, as a member of the Mental

        21       Health Services Council.  All in favor signify

        22       by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")

        24                      Opposed nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                             
6971

         1                      The nomination is confirmed.

         2                      Secretary will read.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

         4       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

         5       following nominations:

         6                      Members of the Board of Visitors

         7       of the Capital District Developmental

         8       Disabilities Services Office, Marcella B. Ryan,

         9       of Hudson Falls, and Francis J. Sheridan, of

        10       Delmar.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Question is on the nominations or reappointments

        13       as members of the Board of Visitors of the

        14       Capital District Developmental Disabilities

        15       Office of Marcella B. Ryan, of Hudson Falls, and

        16       Francis J. Sheridan, of Delmar.  All in favor

        17       signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      The nominations are confirmed.

        22                      Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        24       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        25       following nominations:







                                                             
6972

         1                      Members of the Board of Visitors

         2       of the Metro New York Developmental Disabilities

         3       Services Office, Al Agovino, of the Bronx, and

         4       Alera M. Dominique, of the Bronx.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Question is on the reappointment of Al Agovino,

         7       of the Bronx, and Alera M. Dominique, of the

         8       Bronx, as a member -- as members of the Board of

         9       Visitors of the Metro New York Developmental

        10       Disabilities Services Office.  All in favor

        11       signify by saying aye.

        12                      (Response of "Aye.")

        13                      Opposed nay.

        14                      (There was no response.)

        15                      The nominations are confirmed.

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        18       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        19       following nomination:

        20                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        21       of the Rockland Children's Psychiatric Center,

        22       Matthew John Murphy, of Pearl River.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Question is on the nomination of Matthew John

        25       Murphy, of Pearl River, as a member of the Board







                                                             
6973

         1       of Visitors of the Rockland Children's

         2       Psychiatric Center.  All in favor signify by

         3       saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The nomination is confirmed.

         8                      The Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

        10       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        11       following nomination:

        12                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        13       of the St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center, Orman

        14       Bomyea, of Malone.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Question is on the nomination of Orman Bomyea,

        17       of Malone, as a member of the Board of Visitors

        18       of the St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center.  All

        19       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye.")

        21                      Opposed nay.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      The nomination is confirmed.

        24                      Senator Skelos.

        25                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,







                                                             
6974

         1       if we could return to motions and resolutions,

         2       I'd like to move to adopt the Resolution

         3       Calendar in its entirety.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  We

         5       will return to motions and resolutions, and the

         6       motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar in

         7       its entirety.  All those in favor signify by

         8       saying aye.

         9                      Senator Dollinger.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

        11       President, if I could just explain my vote on

        12       one of the resolutions before the house.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  Let

        14       me just finish making that call.  You will be

        15       recognized then immediately.  Move the

        16       Resolution Calendar.  Senator Dollinger, to

        17       explain his vote.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                      I just rise to make a brief

        21       mention of Resolution Number 2089, which is

        22       sponsored by myself, my colleagues from Monroe

        23       County, Senator Alesi, Senator Maziarz and

        24       Senator Nozzolio, and this is a congratulations

        25       to Eastman Kodak Company for its work on the







                                                             
6975

         1       Mars landing.

         2                      Eastman Kodak Company provided to

         3       the Jet Propulsion Lab the digital sensors that

         4       allowed the vehicle on Mars to travel, and the

         5       furthest operating piece of equipment from

         6       Rochester, New York is a device that has digital

         7       sensors which really provide the eyes for the

         8       Mars landing probe; so it's a great moment for

         9       Eastman Kodak Company, it's a great moment for

        10       New York because it's a moment when we celebrate

        11       the technology that we all want to bring to New

        12       York State, the high technology that allows us

        13       to explore other planets.

        14                      So I rise in support of the

        15       resolution and ask my colleagues to support it

        16       as well.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will you hold on

        18       just one second.  That's all right.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  All

        20       in favor signify by saying aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye.")

        22                      Opposed nay.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      The resolution carries,

        25       approved.







                                                             
6976

         1                      Senator Skelos.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I

         3       believe the Minority wishes to have a short

         4       conference at this time.  Senator Paterson.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  We'd like to

         6       have a long conference but we will have it

         7       shortly in the Minority Conference Room

         8       immediately upon our recess.  There will be an

         9       immediate meeting.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  We understand

        11       that the Minority is requesting about 15 minutes

        12       for the Conference, so that why don't we come

        13       back about ten to -- ten to 2:00.

        14                      Enjoy your lunch.  The Senate

        15       will stand at ease until ten to 2:00.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       There will be an immediate meeting of the

        18       Minority Conference in the Minority Conference

        19       Room.  Minority Conference in the Minority

        20       Conference Room.

        21                      The Senate will stand in recess

        22       until about ten minutes to 2:00.

        23                      Senator Wright, I'm sorry.

        24                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Thank you, Mr.

        25       President.







                                                             
6977

         1                      I request unanimous consent to be

         2       recorded in the negative on Senate 5705.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  It

         4       will be done, sir.

         5                      (Whereupon at 1:36 p.m., the

         6       Senate recessed until 1:50 p.m.)

         7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT ALESI:  Senator

         9       Skelos.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  There will be an

        11       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the

        12       Majority Conference Room.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT ALESI:

        14       Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the

        15       Majority Conference Room.

        16                      (Whereupon, the Senate resumed at

        17       2:05 p.m.)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

        20       find their places, the staff to find their

        21       places.

        22                      Senator Skelos.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe

        24       there's some housekeeping at the desk.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.







                                                             
6978

         1                      We'll return to the order of

         2       motions and resolutions.

         3                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         4       Marcellino.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                      On behalf of Senator Johnson, I

         8       would like to call up his bill, Print Number

         9       5410-B, recalled from the Assembly which is now

        10       at your desk.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the title.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       1493, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5410-B,

        15       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        16       Law.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Marcellino.

        19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now move

        20       to reconsider the vote by which the bill was

        21       passed.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will call the roll on

        24       reconsideration.

        25                      (The Secretary called the roll on







                                                             
6979

         1       reconsideration.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Marcellino.

         5                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         6       President, I now offer the following amendments.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       amendments are received and adopted.

         9                      Senator Marcellino.

        10                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        11       President, on behalf of Senator Skelos, I wish

        12       to call up his bill, Senate Print Number 331,

        13       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the

        14       desk.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        18       486, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 331, an act

        19       to amend the Executive Law.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        23       President, I now move to reconsider the vote by

        24       which the bill was passed.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                             
6980

         1       Secretary will call the roll on

         2       reconsideration.

         3                      (The Secretary called the roll on

         4       reconsideration.)

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I now offer

         9       the following amendments.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       amendments are received and adopted.

        12                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        16       if we could return to reports of standing

        17       committees, I believe there's a report of the

        18       Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be

        19       read.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        21       return to the order of reports of standing

        22       committees.  There is a report of the Rules

        23       Committee at the desk.

        24                      I'll ask the Secretary to read.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
6981

         1       Bruno, from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         2       following bills:

         3                      Senate Print 5702, by the Senate

         4       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Racing,

         5       Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law;

         6                      5706, by Senator Seward, an act

         7       to amend the Public Authorities Law and others;

         8       and

         9                      5708, by Senator Lack, an act to

        10       amend the Judiciary Law.

        11                      All bills ordered direct for

        12       third reading.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept

        16       the report of the Rules Committee.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       motion is to accept the report of the Rules

        19       Committee.  All those in favor signify by saying

        20       aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye".)

        22                      Opposed, nay.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      The report is accepted.

        25                      Senator Skelos.







                                                             
6982

         1                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         2       at this time if we could take up Calendar 1531,

         3       Senate Bill Number 5702.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1531.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       1531, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         8       Print 5702, an act to amend the Racing,

         9       Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.

        10                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        11       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        16       Calendar Number 1531, Senate Print 5702, which

        17       is at the desk.  All those in favor signify by

        18       saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The message is accepted.

        23                      Senator Skelos.

        24                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Read the last

        25       section, please.







                                                             
6983

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         6       roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         9       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 1531 are

        12       Senators Padavan and Tully.  Ayes 47, nays 2.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                      Senator Skelos.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        17       there will be an immediate meeting of the Social

        18       Service Committee in the Majority Conference

        19       Room, I believe to take up one nomination.

        20                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Right.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Immediate

        22       meeting of the Social Services Committee,

        23       immediate meeting of the Social Services

        24       Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room

        25       332.







                                                             
6984

         1                      Senator Skelos.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         3       if we could take up Calendar Number 1534, Senate

         4       Bill Number 5706.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1534, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5706, an

         9       act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

        10       others.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Skelos.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        14       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        19       Calendar Number 1534, Senate Print 5706.  All

        20       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye".)

        22                      Opposed, nay.

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      The message is accepted.

        25                      The Secretary will read the last







                                                             
6985

         1       section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

         5       roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Seward, to explain his vote.

        10                      SENATOR SEWARD:  Mr. President, I

        11       would like to explain my vote and just simply

        12       say that this bill that we are passing today

        13       represents the culmination of negotiations by

        14       the ten members of the Conference Committee on

        15       Economic Development and Power.

        16                      That committee took two very

        17       separate bills and forged them into a product

        18       which will provide 400 megawatts of low cost

        19       power to assist our businesses as we transition

        20       to a new era of competition in the electric

        21       utility industry and the lower rates that will

        22       result from that competition, and I simply want

        23       to rise to thank the Senate members of the

        24       Conference Committee who worked so well with me,

        25       Senators Alesi, Meier, Wright and Senator







                                                             
6986

         1       Dollinger, our Ranking Minority member of our

         2       committee and I'm very excited about this

         3       product.  It will mean the retention of jobs,

         4       the creation of jobs in the state of New York

         5       through low cost power.

         6                      I vote aye.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  After an

         8       electrifying explanation, Senator Seward is

         9       recorded in the affirmative.

        10                      Senator Dollinger, to explain his

        11       vote.

        12                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you

        13       very much, Mr. President.

        14                      I rise to join the Chairman of

        15       the Energy and Telecommunications Committee in

        16       support of this bill.  I commend him for his

        17       work with Assemblyman Tonko in bringing this

        18       bill together.

        19                      This was a -- in my opinion, the

        20       first true test of the Conference Committee

        21       ideal in which a committee could sit down with

        22       very different bills and bring those bills

        23       together.  The other members of the Committee, I

        24       think contributed in the Senate and in the

        25       Assembly, and I thought the process worked well.







                                                             
6987

         1                      Just a couple quick comments.

         2       One, I think the pollution issue, the question

         3       of cheaper power that would perhaps be dirty

         4       power, it was discussed in the Conference

         5       Committee.  We have attended to that here in

         6       which we have talked about in the legislative

         7       findings a commitment to producing power that is

         8       clean and has a reduced impact on our

         9       environment and we have given the Allocation

        10       Board and the Power Authority the ability to

        11       consider those factors in determining what low

        12       cost power is.

        13                      The other thing I just again

        14       commend Senator Seward on, he has been a

        15       long-term supporter of reductions in the gross

        16       receipts tax.  This bill is the first time in

        17       which we are going to provide a reduction in

        18       gross receipts tax dependent upon utilities

        19       working to make power available -- cheaper power

        20       available.

        21                      So I commend Senator Seward.  We

        22       aren't at that final destination of eliminating

        23       this tax but we're a step closer to it because

        24       of your leadership.

        25                      I'll just conclude.  Throughout







                                                             
6988

         1       the Committee, throughout the whole time we

         2       talked about things, the message was we have to

         3       get cheaper power to provide the one thing we

         4       all agreed on, the solution to our welfare

         5       problems, the solution to many of our social

         6       service problems, the solution to many problems

         7       that face families in this state and that's the

         8       creation of new jobs, and I hope that this bill

         9       and the power that we will be providing at

        10       reduced costs will meet that goal and make this

        11       state a better place.

        12                      Again, I commend Senator Seward

        13       and everybody for bringing this bill together.

        14                      I vote aye.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.

        17       Announce the results.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                      Senator Skelos.

        22                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Stand at ease

        23       for a moment.

        24                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        25       ease from 2:12 p.m. until 2:18 p.m.).







                                                             
6989

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Skelos.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         4       would you please call up Calendar Number 1535,

         5       Senate Bill Number 5708.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Secretary will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       1535, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5708, an act

        10       to amend the Judiciary Law.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        12       is there a message of necessity at the desk?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        14                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        17       Calendar Number 1535, Senate Print 5708.  All

        18       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no response.)

        22                      The message is accepted.

        23                      The Secretary will read the last

        24       section.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This







                                                             
6990

         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation,

         3       please.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Lack.

         6                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you,

         7       Senator.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  A very

         9       reluctant request has been made for an

        10       explanation by Senator Paterson.

        11                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      This is an agreed upon version of

        14       a renewal and extension of the outstanding

        15       authority for cameras in the courts.

        16                      Cameras in the court legislation

        17       which has been on the floor of this Senate six

        18       times in the last ten years, this would be

        19       another extender extending it for two more

        20       years.

        21                      46 of the 50 states in the United

        22       States have authorization in one form of another

        23       for cameras in the courts legislation.  That

        24       ranges from the least restrictive, the state of

        25       California, which unfortunately in the past two







                                                             
6991

         1       years produced a very bad trial which certainly

         2       confirms the adage that one bad trial does not

         3       make good law but California does have the most

         4       liberal, unrestricted law for cameras in the

         5       courtroom, to the most restricted law in the

         6       state of New York, which is New York's law, and

         7       with the revisions and amendments that are

         8       contained in S.5708, the instant bill we are

         9       talking about now, will make that language,

        10       indeed, even more restrictive.

        11                      Since cameras in the courts have

        12       been debated six times in the last ten years on

        13       the floor of the Senate, unless specifically

        14       questioned by Senator Paterson or others, I

        15       won't go into what is the current extant law.

        16                      I will, however, dwell on the six

        17       significant changes that are being made and

        18       contained in S.5708 and how that changes current

        19       New York law.

        20                      First, with respect to

        21       procedure.  Current law is that the media makes

        22       a request to the court seven days before the

        23       commencement of trial proceedings.  Pretrial

        24       conference is currently held between counsel and

        25       the media.  Counsel convey to the court any







                                                             
6992

         1       concerns of prospective witnesses but witnesses,

         2       parties and/or victims are not parties to that

         3       proceeding.

         4                      S.5708, the bill before us today

         5       would change that by making the victim and/or

         6       parties, parties to the proceeding for media

         7       coverage if they so choose and within ten days

         8       before proceedings instead of seven days, a

         9       party or a victim can file a formal objection to

        10       audio/visual coverage and then the law would

        11       proceed as it currently does.  There would be a

        12       hearing before the trial judge.  That would be

        13       appealable only to the administrative judge of

        14       the Judicial District or the city of New York as

        15       the case might be and that would be the end of

        16       the appellate process.

        17                      The standards -- the current law

        18       lists certain factors that the judge has to

        19       consider with respect to authorization of

        20       cameras in the courts.  If, under 5708, a party

        21       or a victim of a crime objects, the court can

        22       still grant coverage but only after finding the

        23       public benefit of the coverage, quote,

        24       "substantially outweighs the risks of such

        25       coverage."







                                                             
6993

         1                      Currently, after proceedings

         2       start, no coverage is allowed unless counsels

         3       for all party agrees.  S.5708 would also add

         4       that all victims of the crimes, assuming it's a

         5       criminal proceeding, which are the subject of

         6       the proceeding must consent before coverage

         7       would be permitted if coverage is to start after

         8       the commencement of proceedings.

         9                      With respect to pretrial criminal

        10       proceedings, the current law is that coverage of

        11       arraignments and suppression hearings were

        12       permitted only upon consent of the defendant and

        13       prosecutors.  S.5708 would add bail hearings and

        14       preliminary hearings to pretrial criminal

        15       proceedings and they would be closed to audio/

        16       visual coverage unless all parties agree.

        17                      In the last ten years since

        18       cameras in the court legislation became

        19       effective, post-trial criminal proceedings have

        20       included a victim impact statement.  Current law

        21       makes no mention of how to handle a victim

        22       impact statement.  This bill would recognize

        23       that a person giving a victim impact statement

        24       at sentencing can make a determination whether

        25       he or she would like audio/visual coverage, that







                                                             
6994

         1       is, a victim giving a victim impact statement

         2       can say I do not want the camera on or can

         3       permit the camera to be on if the camera is

         4       present.

         5                      Probably the most significant

         6       change, the last one, current law is on

         7       witness.  In criminal cases, a non-party

         8       witness, as the current law, can request that

         9       his or her visual image, that's the blue dot, be

        10       obscured and the court must so direct and that

        11       would leave the current audio/visual coverage.

        12                      S.5708 would change that to

        13       extend one, to civil cases as well as criminal

        14       cases, would extend the protection to all

        15       witnesses not just a non-party witness, to allow

        16       cameras to be turned off, not just a blue dot,

        17       that is, there would not only be no visual

        18       reference to the witness testifying but no audio

        19       reference as well and, indeed, it would be

        20       blacked out at the choice -- choice of that

        21       witness.

        22                      Those are the significant changes

        23       made in 5708 to be grafted upon the current

        24       Section 218 of the Judiciary Law and finally the

        25       extension would be for two years after June







                                                             
6995

         1       30th, 1997 before this would come up for sunset

         2       or review.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Padavan.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.  Mr.

         6       President.  I acknowledge the somewhat paucity

         7       of interest on this bill and I also acknowledge

         8       the explanation in terms of the improvements

         9       that have been added to this experiment as it

        10       relates to cameras in the courtroom.

        11                      I would like to suggest, Mr.

        12       President, that this experiment which has gone

        13       on for ten years has failed.  It's failed on one

        14       significant point, that the essence of this

        15       experiment was to provide an opportunity for the

        16       general public to be educated and become more

        17       aware and knowledgeable about the judicial

        18       system that operates in this state and

        19       everything that I have read and heard indicates

        20       to me that that has simply not been the case.

        21                      I think one of the sources of

        22       that conclusion is the New York Broadcasters

        23       Association who said in their own words, "As far

        24       as education, we in the media don't believe it's

        25       our business to educate.  That's why we have an







                                                             
6996

         1       educational system" and that statement, which is

         2       a direct quote, was in response to that point

         3       being made to them.

         4                      A study of TV coverage at the

         5       federal level confirmed the media is not

         6       involved in a public education process.  Quite

         7       to the contrary.  A pilot program that we have

         8       had was analyzed in New York and found seriously

         9       lacking.  The average length of courtroom

        10       coverage was 56 seconds, hardly enough, I think,

        11       to illustrate anything that's significant about

        12       the judicial system and the Judicial Conference

        13       at the federal level concluded in 1994 that

        14       cameras should be banned in the federal court

        15       and the reason they gave, and I support again,

        16       the intimidating effect of cameras on some

        17       witnesses and jurors is cause for serious

        18       concern.

        19                      More specifically, here in New

        20       York, a survey was conducted by Judge John

        21       Feerick from Fordham Law School and some of

        22       their observations, I think are significant.

        23       One of the things was that 30 percent -- 37

        24       percent of the judges they surveyed indicated,

        25       and again I quote, "That cameras led judges to







                                                             
6997

         1       render rulings they otherwise might not issue.

         2       80 percent believe that TV coverage is more

         3       likely to serve as a source of entertainment

         4       than education.  Cameras also intimidate crime

         5       victims."

         6                      There have been a number of other

         7       surveys, including a Marist public opinion poll

         8       which indicated that 61 percent of New York

         9       State registered voters feel that it's a bad

        10       idea for trials to be shown on television and 65

        11       percent believe that rather than increasing

        12       accuracy of news coverage of a trial, television

        13       serves more to sensationalize a judicial

        14       proceeding.

        15                      Now, irrespective and despite the

        16       protections that are in this statute, a witness

        17       knows there are cameras in the courtroom and he

        18       or she is intimidated.  Tell them everything you

        19       want to, they're still intimidated.  Jurors feel

        20       uncomfortable.  Certain members of the judiciary

        21       and certain members of the legal profession will

        22       attempt to manipulate that opportunity.  All in

        23       all, there are more negatives than positives.

        24                      If I felt that there was an

        25       educational value and a significant reason to







                                                             
6998

         1       continue forward on this, well, I might be

         2       persuaded that these negatives should be

         3       overlooked, but if there is no primary positive

         4       -- and we've got, I think ample proof of that

         5       -- then why are we even risking these potential

         6       problems and ones that have been identified at

         7       the federal level, at the state level by

         8       independent bodies that have sought to determine

         9       for our benefit how this experiment has worked

        10       out, and that being the case, I see no reason to

        11       continue it.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Waldon.

        14                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        15       much, Mr. President.

        16                      On the bill.  I am very much in

        17       agreement with what Senator Padavan has said and

        18       for the reasons that he made his statements.

        19       However, my opposition to this goes beyond the

        20       parameters of his statements to us.

        21                      When I came into the Legislature

        22       in 1983, our prison population was much

        23       different than it is now in terms of the

        24       numbers.  The numbers have increased almost

        25       geometrically and as they have increased, the







                                                             
6999

         1       representation of young African-American males

         2       has increased disproportionately.  This happened

         3       while cameras were in the courtroom, and so I

         4       believe it is not just that the cameras have

         5       failed to educate.  Clearly the O.J. Simpson

         6       trial was not about education.  It was about

         7       those who worship at the fountain of prurient

         8       interest.  People were glued to their TVs on a

         9       regular basis, trying to enjoy and participate

        10       vicariously in the worst that we have as a

        11       society.

        12                      So while cameras in the courtroom

        13       have been in existence, more and more and more

        14       and more young African-Americans have been given

        15       stiffer and stiffer and stiffer sentences.  The

        16       racial disparities report which came out of the

        17       Democratic Conference most recently spoke to the

        18       concern that if people similarly situated, black

        19       and white, same block, same socioeconomic

        20       background and education were arrested for the

        21       same crime and went through the same courts,

        22       one-third of those who were white would result

        23       -- or their situation would result in a

        24       criminal justice statistic adhering to

        25       themselves.  Two-thirds of those who were black







                                                             
7000

         1       would have a record and this nation, as we

         2       speak, there are more young black men between

         3       the ages of 18 and 25 in prison, on probation,

         4       are on parole or in our local jails than in

         5       college.  As we speak, we have a

         6       disproportionate number of blacks not just in

         7       our prisons but in our local jails.  Something

         8       has failed.  Something has failed.  Not only has

         9       our priority failed in terms of we should be

        10       doing things to ensure that such a great

        11       resource doesn't end up as cannon fodder for the

        12       prison system but something has failed in the

        13       fact that the criminal justice system treats

        14       those of color differently than it does all

        15       others, and I submit that part of that is a

        16       result of cameras in the courtroom.

        17                      The judges sentence differently

        18       because they are being scrutinized by the eye of

        19       the camera.  The prosecutors prosecute

        20       differently because they are being scrutinized

        21       by the eye of the camera.  The police officers

        22       testify differently because they are being

        23       scrutinized by the eye of the camera.

        24                      So this has not only failed

        25       because it has not educated us in this last ten







                                                             
7001

         1       years -- these last ten years but this process

         2       of having cameras in the courtroom from a social

         3       perspective has failed abominably.  The society

         4       is in trouble in terms of the way it treats its

         5       people of color, especially those who are young

         6       and part of that process that is resulting in

         7       this shame is the camera in the courtroom.

         8                      So I submit to you that the smart

         9       thing that we can do is to return the courts to

        10       the judges, to the prosecutors and to those

        11       involved in the process absent the need to have

        12       the stage of theatrics be the courtroom.  The

        13       whole world is a stage, as we all know.

        14       Everyone is playing a role but the role that's

        15       been played most recently in the courtrooms with

        16       the prosecutors and the police and the judges

        17       has really failed the people of color of this

        18       state especially, but I submit across the

        19       nation.

        20                      So I would encourage us to do the

        21       right thing, to recognize that this was an

        22       experiment.  It has failed on all four points

        23       and that we send it off into the sunset where it

        24       belongs.

        25                      Thank you very much, Mr.







                                                             
7002

         1       President.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Hoffmann.

         4                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  This issue

         5       before us which, as Senator Lack pointed out,

         6       has come up many times on a temporary basis over

         7       the last decade, really compels us to go back

         8       and re-examine the Constitution.

         9                      This is one of those issues for

        10       which constitutional scholars have enormous food

        11       for thought and much evidence within the last

        12       few years to provide new interpretations of the

        13       document that our forefathers created well in

        14       advance of the electronic age and little did

        15       they know or anticipate when they wrote the

        16       First Amendment and the Fourth Amendment the

        17       degree to which they would come into scrutiny

        18       today.

        19                      The First Amendment -- first

        20       article of the Constitution, Article VI, "In all

        21       criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy

        22       the right to a speedy and public trial by an

        23       impartial jury of the state and district wherein

        24       the crime shall have been committed, which

        25       district shall have been previously ascertained







                                                             
7003

         1       by law and to be informed of the nature and

         2       cause of the accusation, to be confronted with

         3       the witnesses against him, to have compulsory

         4       process for obtaining witnesses in his favor and

         5       to have the assistance of counsel for his

         6       defense."

         7                      Article I, that's the fourth -

         8       that's the sixth article dealing with freedom -

         9       dealing with a fair and speedy trial and the

        10       other article to which this is addressed is

        11       "Congress shall make no law respecting an

        12       establishment of religion or prohibiting the

        13       free exercise thereof or bridging the freedom of

        14       speech or of the press or the right of the

        15       people peaceably to assemble and to petition the

        16       government for a redress of grievances."

        17                      Now, it is this first article,

        18       the freedom of press stated in conjunction with

        19       religion and assembly, which has brought the

        20       Newspaper Publishers Association, the

        21       Broadcasters and many other individuals in the

        22       media to the steps of these Capitol -- this

        23       Capitol and other capitols many, many times

        24       seeking what they believe is their

        25       constitutionally guaranteed freedom to broadcast







                                                             
7004

         1       in its entirety any trial of their choosing.

         2       The right of a defendant, and by inference the

         3       rights of victims, to receive justice through

         4       the court system has not been similarly lobbied

         5       upon this Legislature, and I would submit to my

         6       colleagues that there is no significant

         7       organization out there anything on a scale in

         8       terms of personal power and resources to

         9       represent victims and witnesses which could be

        10       balanced by this Legislature in contrast to the

        11       press with its mighty power.

        12                      The press has maintained that

        13       this is a very simple issue.  They believe that

        14       this document I have just quoted, the

        15       Constitution of the United States, guarantees

        16       them access and those of us who have watched the

        17       experiment, as Senator Padavan pointed out so

        18       eloquently, Senator Waldon so eloquently also,

        19       state that it has not been an unqualified

        20       success and there are numerous cases where

        21       witnesses and victims have had their rights

        22       violated in the exercise of so-called freedom of

        23       press by the broadcast media.

        24                      Would our forefathers have

        25       drafted the Constitution any differently if they







                                                             
7005

         1       could have anticipated broadcast trials?  Who

         2       knows?  This is the sort of thing that can be

         3       argued by constitutional scholars and all the

         4       way up to the Supreme Court of the United States

         5       without a clear and uniformed position, but we

         6       have to take the process as it evolves, draw our

         7       conclusions from the evidence as we see it from

         8       each one of these experiments and determine

         9       whether we are, in fact, on the right track and

        10       if this is one of the most awesome

        11       responsibilities we have in this branch of

        12       government -- because here in the Legislative

        13       Branch we are dictating to the Judicial Branch

        14       how they shall conduct their activities without

        15       our ability or without the Executive Branch's

        16       ability to micro-manage them or have any

        17       additional redress.  All we can do is define a

        18       basic ground rule.  This is merely a blueprint

        19       and then entrust the courts to implement them

        20       the way we perceive they should be implemented.

        21       We must wait until the end of this experiment to

        22       determine whether or not it has been well

        23       handled and that has been our pattern over the

        24       last ten years.

        25                      I have my own reservations about







                                                             
7006

         1       cameras in the courtroom.  I believe that the

         2       courts are open and accessible right now.  I

         3       went one year myself to listen to a very

         4       eloquent attorney in Syracuse do the summation

         5       at the end of a long and highly publicized trial

         6       because I wanted to see what it was he did.  I

         7       wanted an opportunity to hear this eloquent

         8       speaker and to have a little better

         9       understanding.  Those courtroom doors were open

        10       to me.  I was able to walk in and hordes of

        11       members of the media were there and many other

        12       public interested citizens were there as well

        13       and the same is true for numerous other trials.

        14                      Would it have been easier for me

        15       to simply turn on my television and watch the

        16       summation?  I suppose it would have, but does

        17       that mean that television has a responsibility

        18       to broadcast every trial, or what is the

        19       criteria by which television executives

        20       determine they will broadcast trials?  Is it for

        21       only the most sensational?  Is it for those

        22       trials which fit neatly with the product which

        23       is simultaneously being sold on a television

        24       station?  Is it because there is already a

        25       sensational aspect as in the case of a well







                                                             
7007

         1       known individual like O.J. Simpson or William

         2       Kennedy Smith that a trial becomes a broadcast?

         3                      These are very subjective

         4       criteria.  It is virtually impossible for us in

         5       this chamber to anticipate every circumstance

         6       like that and to determine when a trial should

         7       and should not be broadcasted, but we do know -

         8       we do know that we have a responsibility to see

         9       that justice is the ultimate responsibility of

        10       the court system not broadcasting for the

        11       public's entertainment or even for the public's

        12       education.  Justice must be our number one

        13       concern today and if we lose sight of that, we

        14       will have violated the responsibility of this

        15       branch of government to provide guidance to the

        16       Judicial Branch of government.

        17                      Now, there are cases where it

        18       appears justice has not been well served because

        19       of the broadcast media's presence in the

        20       courtrooms.

        21                      Senator Padavan has stated many

        22       of the anecdotal and the documented examples of

        23       questionable conduct and questionable outcome

        24       caused by cameras in the courtroom and yet we

        25       are really left with a very limited number of







                                                             
7008

         1       options in drawing up the guidelines for cameras

         2       in the courtroom and most of them fall under the

         3       general category of judicial discretion.

         4                      It is the judge in that courtroom

         5       who assumes the Godlike responsibility of

         6       determining what can emanate from that courtroom

         7       to the public.  The control of that individual

         8       really is almost absolute.  Once we devise some

         9       guidelines, we must rely upon individual judges

        10       in their own courtrooms to interpret them.  So

        11       all we are really doing is providing some

        12       direction and hoping for the best.

        13                      There is, in this particular

        14       bill, great progress made in addressing the

        15       responsibility of judges to consider the status

        16       of the victims and the rights of the victims and

        17       of the witnesses.  That was almost absent in the

        18       previous cameras in the courtroom experiments

        19       that we've had in this state, and I commend the

        20       sponsors of this on page 2, beginning on line

        21       39, where it begins "The court shall only grant

        22       permission for such audio/visual coverage upon a

        23       finding that, in accordance with the purposes of

        24       this section, the benefit to the public of

        25       audio/visual coverage in such a case







                                                             
7009

         1       substantially outweighs any risk presented by

         2       such coverage."

         3                      Now, this statement was inserted

         4       to explain under what circumstances a witness or

         5       a victim or any party in the trial who requested

         6       coverage not be permitted would have that

         7       request thrown out and this implies, again, a

         8       really, almost Godlike responsibility in the

         9       hands of the judge to determine that there is

        10       some overwhelming public good to be served by

        11       broadcasting that trial.

        12                      I, frankly, can't imagine a

        13       situation where there would be an overwhelming

        14       public good to be served that would supersede

        15       the rights of a victim or a witness to be

        16       subject to broadcast coverage, and I believe

        17       that there is ample evidence -- some of it is

        18       anecdotal, but I believe that those of us who

        19       have followed this issue over the years knows

        20       that there are cases where rape victims chose

        21       not to prosecute and, in some cases, not to even

        22       report the crime of rape out of fear that the

        23       trial in which their attacker would be tried

        24       would put them on the stand as much as the

        25       perpetrator of the crime.







                                                             
7010

         1                      Over and over again in this

         2       country, we have seen in the cases of sexual

         3       assault that it is often the victim and not the

         4       attacker who faces the greatest scrutiny and one

         5       forgets sometimes who it is actually on trial.

         6       The case of William Kennedy Smith is probably

         7       one of the greatest living examples of that.

         8       The young woman who was the victim in that case

         9       was barely obscured by the infamous blue dot and

        10       her entire history was divulged to the world at

        11       large before the trial was over.

        12                      There was a new case in New

        13       Bedford, Massachusetts, where a young woman had

        14       her identity inadvertently disclosed by the

        15       media in the course of a covered trial and there

        16       are numerous examples, including some in this

        17       state, one in which during an arraignment, the

        18       identity of the victim was broadcast in a news

        19       brief just before the 6:00 o'clock.  "It was a

        20       mistake.  Oops.  We're sorry", said the local

        21       television station responsible.  How could that

        22       very trite apology ever begin to alleviate the

        23       damage suffered by that young victim?

        24                      So I have my qualms in supporting

        25       this measure today.  I have considerable qualms







                                                             
7011

         1       that this little paragraph in here is going to

         2       be able to guide the judges of this state over

         3       the next two years and will help them find some

         4       overwhelming public reason why there must be

         5       audio/visual coverage in instances where the

         6       witnesses and the victims would choose not to be

         7       otherwise covered.

         8                      I believe, and I've said it many

         9       times before, that we could have a bill that

        10       would be fair to the broadcast media of this

        11       state without compromising the criminal justice

        12       system and the rights of the victims, a bill

        13       that would simply allow an automatic exemption

        14       from coverage at the behest of the victim,

        15       period.  Why is it so difficult to do that?  If

        16       we had such a bill, I would willingly support

        17       it.

        18                      I will today give my support, my

        19       limited for this measure because I believe we

        20       are on the right track.  I think this is

        21       progress and it's a two-year time period, and I

        22       would work to see that that other protection

        23       could be inserted whenever we come up with a

        24       future extender, but I have reasonable doubts

        25       about whether we can put in the hands of the







                                                             
7012

         1       judges of this state this awesome responsibility

         2       without compromising the rights of people who

         3       are to become victims in the years ahead.

         4                      One other little note I would

         5       just make, my constituents seem not to be

         6       concerned about this matter at all.  I find it

         7       fascinating that on the many areas on which we

         8       are lobbied regularly, I don't hear from the

         9       people of the 48th Senate District asking for

        10       extended coverage of cameras in the courtroom.

        11       In fact, I will occasionally ask them at town

        12       meetings what they think and they shrug their

        13       shoulders and mutter something unpleasant about

        14       the O.J. Simpson trial and then want to know

        15       what we're doing about the budget.  There are

        16       many other things on their mind.

        17                      This is a matter that has been

        18       driven by people who will personally benefit,

        19       including some lawyers who would like to have

        20       the exposure.  This is obviously great

        21       advertising for those members of the bar who

        22       find themselves on television and gentlemen and

        23       ladies of this chamber.  Notwithstanding, I

        24       think we all know there are some people who want

        25       to play to the crowds and look forward to this







                                                             
7013

         1       opportunity to market themselves but is that

         2       really our responsibility?  Should we be helping

         3       them to do that?  Are there judges who also face

         4       election in this state who are worthy of this

         5       kind of free exposure and if there is even a

         6       possibility that it is at the expense of

         7       victims, we have every need to put the greatest

         8       possible restriction on it imaginable to protect

         9       the victims and to ensure that the primary

        10       responsibility still must be for the courts of

        11       this state to meet out justice not

        12       entertainment.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Skelos.

        15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        16       if we could have the title read at this time for

        17       the purposes of Senator LaValle voting.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                             
7014

         1       LaValle, how do you vote?

         2                      SENATOR LAVALLE:  In the

         3       negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       LaValle will be recorded in the negative.  The

         6       roll call is withdrawn.  Debate is continued.

         7                      The Chair will recognize Senator

         8       DeFrancisco on debate.

         9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I'm going

        10       to support this bill, and I think its only

        11       drawback is it's not permanent, because if you

        12       have a ten-year experiment, I don't know when

        13       the experiment ever gets over.  We've had ten

        14       years under a bill very similar to this and

        15       there has been very little, if any, negative

        16       feedback from what's happened in the

        17       courtrooms.

        18                      I speak from a little different

        19       point of view.  I am one of those lawyers who

        20       have had a trial televised when the bill first

        21       came into play.  It was a very serious criminal

        22       case and, no doubt, from time to time

        23       individuals that are being broadcast or being

        24       filmed on what they say somehow sometimes play

        25       to the cameras, sometimes speak longer than they







                                                             
7015

         1       should have.  That also applies, by the way, to

         2       legislators, as some of you might have noticed

         3       from time to time, but the fact of the matter is

         4       that if it's a trial, the participants are so

         5       wrapped up in the trial -- and I can speak from

         6       experience -- that they're concerned more about

         7       what they're doing for their clients or for the

         8       people of the state of New York than they are

         9       about how they happen to look on a camera.

        10                      As far as the judges

        11       administering this law, there's been concerns -

        12       some have expressed concern that the judges

        13       should not be left with this awesome

        14       responsibility.  Well, judges are left with a

        15       lot of awesome responsibilities, including

        16       sentencing people on very serious crimes, making

        17       evidentiary rulings that could determine the

        18       outcome of trials and they certainly have

        19       experience in what to do to protect the victims

        20       as they have in our county, in my county and

        21       they have throughout this state.  To suggest

        22       that judges could not use their proper

        23       discretion, I think is not being fair to judges

        24       and also if there is a judge who has a televised

        25       case that is not ruling properly or is







                                                             
7016

         1       discriminating in some way or can't control the

         2       courtroom, as I believe occurred in the Simpson

         3       case, then the whole world will know about it

         4       and that judge would become open to the public

         5       scrutiny that the judge might not otherwise have

         6       been held to.

         7                      So there's many factors on both

         8       sides of this issue, but I think that the

         9       experiment has been a positive one.  Cameras in

        10       the courtroom should be made permanent, and I'm

        11       going to vote in favor of this bill.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        13       Stafford -- Senator Stafford.

        14                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      I'll be very brief.  Ten years

        17       ago we passed this bill.  I was the sponsor and

        18       I looked so terrible during that period that

        19       everyone felt sorry for me and passed it.  It

        20       actually had not passed a few times before.  The

        21       first time it came up, I think there were maybe

        22       three or four votes for it.  Senator Anderson

        23       was the sponsor.  It didn't fair very, very

        24       well.  I voted for it at that time and I'm going

        25       to vote for it again.  I'm just going to make







                                                             
7017

         1       this point.

         2                      I respect all the concerns that

         3       people have here on this bill and I have tried

         4       lawsuits with the camera and without the camera,

         5       and I assure you there are always possibilities

         6       of abuses.  There are always possibilities of,

         7       you know, disadvantages.

         8                      On the other hand, here is my

         9       point and this is a point that I made the day

        10       that we passed the bill, and I remember Senator

        11       Gold sitting where Senator Connor is right now,

        12       and he nodded as I said this ten years ago.  The

        13       courts are an integral part of our system and if

        14       there's one thing we pride ourselves in with

        15       this system is it's open to the public.

        16                      Now, all of us, myself included,

        17       sometimes have some things open to the public

        18       that we say, well, wait a minute, the public

        19       doesn't have to know that.  I do it.  We all do

        20       it, but I suggest this to you.  If there's any

        21       function in our system that should be open to

        22       the public, it's the courts.

        23                      Now, you're going to have trials

        24       when you would rather it was not open.  You're

        25       going to have trials when you think it would be







                                                             
7018

         1       good to have it open, just as every function of

         2       government, whether it is legislative or

         3       executive.  This is judiciary.

         4                      I compliment Senator Lack and all

         5       those who have worked on this bill for the

         6       safeguards that they have put in the bill.  I

         7       think this makes it a better bill than we passed

         8       ten years ago, but once again, I just make this

         9       point.  If there's any function in our system

        10       that should be open to the public where one

        11       person is in a lawsuit or one party is in a

        12       lawsuit with another party or whether,

        13       unfortunately there's a trial where the

        14       government is a party and we have a defendant,

        15       in our system, we say we operate in the public

        16       and, therefore, I say there will be times we

        17       would rather not have this.  There would be

        18       times we rather have it.  In government, there

        19       are times we like to have things public.  There

        20       are times we say, well, wait, maybe it shouldn't

        21       be public, but I think we all come down on the

        22       side that actually this is one of the strings on

        23       our democracy.

        24                      I think the bill is good.  I

        25       suggest there hasn't been any severe problems.







                                                             
7019

         1       I suggest that the bill should be continued and

         2       I would go so far as to say, as someone said

         3       earlier here, that we ought to make it permanent

         4       and get on with it.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Gold.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      Mr. President, I and so many

        10       other people remember these debates all the way

        11       back and like so many other people, I probably

        12       voted yes and voted no along the way and I'm

        13       back again to something my friend Senator Farley

        14       said in the discussion I had with him as to

        15       whether or not we vote on bills or whether we

        16       vote on labels.  Everybody gets excited.  This

        17       is Court TV.  Well, is this the bill that Court

        18       TV wants?  Is this the right bill for Court TV?

        19       I think that's a legitimate question.

        20                      The last few days, we've seen

        21       some things which have horrified me.  I don't

        22       know the reaction to my friends in this chamber,

        23       but I don't know what came over people in

        24       another part of this country that decided to

        25       release autopsy reports on that little child,







                                                             
7020

         1       Jon Benet.  To me it was horrifying.  The

         2       prosecutor didn't want it done.  They're trying

         3       to find the murderer.  It had to be done.  The

         4       press had the right to know.  I think that's

         5       junk.  I think that's silliness if it interferes

         6       with an investigation.  That had nothing to do

         7       with cameras in the courtroom.

         8                      I was also upset within the last

         9       month that a New York judge -- and I'm not

        10       criticizing the judge.  Please understand.  A

        11       judge makes a decision and does the best he or

        12       she can, but I was surprised in the Chavez case

        13       that the court was opened up and they were

        14       trying very hard to deal with a youngster in a

        15       family at tragic times and I don't know why that

        16       was opened up.  It's not my understanding.  It's

        17       not anything I ever wanted but, again, that

        18       wasn't the cameras in the courtroom.  It wasn't

        19       the TV.  It wasn't the radio, and I guess the

        20       point I'm making is that if you want to talk

        21       about openness and you want to talk about horror

        22       stories, you'd probably find 40 to 1 the print

        23       media versus any other media and we all go

        24       through that and you say to yourself -- you pick

        25       up a paper and you say to yourself, How do they







                                                             
7021

         1       print that stuff?

         2                      So one of the original arguments

         3       that was made for Court TV was if you've got

         4       print media people in there and they're writing

         5       stuff, what could they -- what more harm could

         6       it be to have a camera in and one of the first

         7       hits on cameras in the courtroom was the concept

         8       that you could show a picture of somebody, it's

         9       a picture, it's a photograph and it's 15 seconds

        10       or whatever and you could give the wrong

        11       impression and the argument that came back

        12       against that was one print media reporter in two

        13       paragraphs or one paragraph can give you just as

        14       bad a reaction.

        15                      So the answers, after all was

        16       said and done, we gave it a try and Senator

        17       Hoffmann said something a few minutes ago which

        18       I think reflects my district also.  I mean, if

        19       you go around the district, people aren't

        20       yelling and screaming for or against it, but I

        21       think part of that -- I read it a little

        22       differently than the Senator.  I think part of

        23       that is just that people have just accepted some

        24       things now today as a part of life.

        25                      As a matter of fact, sometimes







                                                             
7022

         1       you'll pick up a paper and you'll say, How did

         2       that get on the front page and instead of

         3       getting outraged, I say to myself, Thank you,

         4       God.  We're not at war.  If things are quiet

         5       down with Russia, then I guess the country is

         6       safe, if the only thing they could do is put the

         7       junk on the front page that they put on the

         8       front page.

         9                      The O.J. Simpson trial was

        10       something which I think has had an interesting

        11       effect on America.  Number one, they saw a

        12       criminal trial.  Number two, they saw a civil

        13       trial and a lot of people, for the first time in

        14       their lives, learned that there was a

        15       difference.  They also saw how inept prosecution

        16       can go on and on and on and some people can get

        17       away with something and how you get a lawyer who

        18       may be a trial lawyer type as the -- that bar

        19       likes to call themselves, go in there, shorten a

        20       trial and convince the jury that something

        21       happened that's different.

        22                      I, for one, was not watching this

        23       trial every day but there were people who were

        24       and it was out there.  If it wasn't on

        25       television, you couldn't stop it from being in







                                                             
7023

         1       the newspapers every single day and even though

         2       it was on television, it was in the newspapers

         3       every single day.

         4                      The question of whether or not

         5       that part of our society that deals with the

         6       courts should be entertainment, we can shrug our

         7       shoulders.  It obviously has come to some extent

         8       entertainment.

         9                      As far as it being education, I

        10       do believe in that and I do believe, as was said

        11       earlier, that these two elements should not

        12       override justice because the courts weren't

        13       created for entertainment and they weren't

        14       created for anything else other than justice,

        15       but I do believe that if you take the label, if

        16       you listen to Senator Farley and take the label,

        17       I personally have no objection today with the

        18       concept of cameras in the courtroom and I say

        19       that a little bit early.  They haven't followed

        20       any of my trials yet and I'm in the middle of a

        21       trial, had to give up today to come here but if

        22       and they wanted to bring their cameras Friday,

        23       but the point is as a concept, I'm not opposed

        24       to it.

        25                      One thing has started to get me







                                                             
7024

         1       upset, though, and that is that I am now hearing

         2       that perhaps the people actually involved in

         3       cameras in the courtroom may not support this

         4       bill and if they don't support the bill, I guess

         5       maybe they don't go in and maybe you don't have

         6       it anyway.

         7                      So I say to myself, Senator

         8       Farley, as much as you and I have debated

         9       whether we vote on concepts or bills, I really

        10       do believe we vote on bills and I, with the

        11       greatest respect for Senator Lack and the work

        12       he's done, have to throw out to you that I have

        13       still got a question on my mind.

        14                      I am prepared to vote for cameras

        15       in the courtroom.  It makes no sense to me to

        16       vote for cameras in the courtroom if the bill

        17       I'm voting on is opposed by the people with the

        18       cameras.  If the people who are going to go in

        19       or could go in or would go in are opposed to

        20       this and say, Look.  We want to do it but this

        21       isn't the way to do it, that concerns me, and so

        22       until I really get it clarified in my mind as to

        23       what those involved want to do, I'm going to

        24       wait my own decision until the end of this

        25       debate.







                                                             
7025

         1                      I can support the concept but

         2       there's no way under our system that I could

         3       vote for a concept.  I'm only allowed, Senator

         4       Lack, to vote for a specific bill with specific

         5       language and that's the bill I want to know how

         6       the people involved feel about it.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Dollinger.

         9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                      I have to respond to several of

        12       the issues that have been raised in the course

        13       of this debate.  I'll start with Senator Padavan

        14       who talked about the fact that cameras in the

        15       courtroom hadn't educated the people in the

        16       state of New York and that the Judiciary did not

        17       want to have cameras in the courtroom continue.

        18                      My suggestion is, like most

        19       levels of government, the concept of sunshine to

        20       the Judiciary is not a particularly appealing

        21       one, that the notion that the public will watch

        22       the Judiciary more carefully or with an eye of a

        23       camera is something that no doubt the Judiciary

        24       is afraid of.  Quite frankly, the Legislature

        25       has proven in the past that we haven't been







                                                             
7026

         1       willing to authorize gavel to gavel coverage of

         2       the state Legislature under the electronic eye

         3       of a camera because we don't necessarily want

         4       that level of sunshine brought into our

         5       proceedings.  So the people of this state could

         6       watch this debate live and this house live and

         7       watch how it works.  I suggest that when the

         8       Judiciary suggests we don't want cameras in the

         9       courtroom, what they're saying is we would like

        10       to conduct our proceedings the way we want to

        11       without the glaring eye of the people on them.

        12       Sunshine is sometimes a difficult thing to get

        13       used to.

        14                      To my friend, Senator Waldon, who

        15       talks about the racial imbalance in our criminal

        16       justice system, this is an enormous problem that

        17       we in America have to face.  The concept that

        18       justice for African-Americans and justice for

        19       whites is different in our system, a system that

        20       we pride on being color blind, should affront

        21       and outrage all of us but, Senator Waldon, what

        22       do I suggest is the solution to that?  Less

        23       exposure of that difference or more?

        24                      I would simply call your

        25       attention to, Senator Waldon, that we had







                                                             
7027

         1       150-year history -- a 100-year history anyway,

         2       of segregation and lack of justice for

         3       African-Americans and at least based on my

         4       recollection of history, what turned it around?

         5       The eye of the television camera watching the

         6       conduct of Bull Connor use electrical prods on

         7       African-Americans in Selma, Alabama because they

         8       were protesting the fact that they didn't have

         9       equal rights to vote.  It's America looking at

        10       that image in the face that rallied the

        11       conscience of Americans, black and white, to say

        12       it must be finished.  It is on outrage to our

        13       sense of who we are and I would suggest to you,

        14       Senator Waldon, that the camera in the courtroom

        15       might some day achieve the same goal.  It might

        16       some day force us to confront the fact that

        17       blacks are sentenced to disproportionately

        18       higher rates, that their race is used against

        19       them in the criminal justice system in violation

        20       of all that we hold sacred, and I would suggest

        21       it's the eye of the camera in the courtroom that

        22       will prove to us that that is the case.  It's

        23       the eye in the courtroom that will show America

        24       across the nation that whites are treated

        25       differently from blacks and that we will







                                                             
7028

         1       hopefully come to our senses just as in 1963, we

         2       came to our senses about inequalities in voting

         3       and just as in 1970, when we came to our senses

         4       about a war that we were fighting in which we

         5       did not have an objective, in which we did not

         6       fully understand and it was the televised

         7       pictures that came back into our living rooms

         8       that drove home the message that something was

         9       wrong.

        10                      I also think it's important in

        11       this debate to differentiate what we're talking

        12       about.  We're simply talking about the eye of

        13       the television camera.  All of those who are

        14       concerned about witnesses, all of those who are

        15       concerned about statements made by people

        16       recognize that the print media has access to

        17       these proceedings.  The only thing that this

        18       bill talks about is allowing the eye of the

        19       camera to accompany those in the print media.

        20       This is about bringing television to the

        21       courtrooms.  It's not about ending public

        22       access.  Witnesses will still have -- there will

        23       be print reporters in the pews of a courtroom

        24       taking down names, taking down statements,

        25       taking down public information.







                                                             
7029

         1                      So it seems to me that this bill

         2       raises the issue of the role of television in a

         3       courtroom.  It seems to me to raise significant

         4       issues.

         5                      I will close with one final

         6       observation, and that is that the question of

         7       how much authority a single witness should have

         8       to curtail cameras in the courtroom.  Senator

         9       Lack, you can correct me if I'm wrong in your

        10       summary on this bill, but my understanding is

        11       the way this bill is drafted, any witness on the

        12       witness stand, be they police officers or

        13       anyone, can ask that the court cameras be

        14       removed from the courtroom.

        15                      I would suggest that giving a

        16       single witness, a police officer, anyone the

        17       ability to turn off that camera without the

        18       judge making a ruling that it will somehow

        19       promote a fairer trial seems to me to give the

        20       witness, be it Mark Fuhrman, be it Bull Connor,

        21       be it anyone who is a witness in a courtroom the

        22       ability to turn off the camera, gives them too

        23       broad a discretion and that that provision may

        24       defeat the whole purpose of having cameras in

        25       the courtroom, which is to open to the public







                                                             
7030

         1       eye not necessarily to educate the public, not

         2       necessarily to entertain it but to open for the

         3       public the judicial process.

         4                      Those who have been critical of

         5       the O.J. Simpson case, I would simply suggest

         6       that that was not a fault of cameras in the

         7       courtroom.  That was an absolutely outrageous

         8       performance by a trial judge who lost control of

         9       his courtroom.  It didn't have anything to do

        10       with the fact that there were cameras there.  It

        11       had to do with the fact that the judge lost

        12       control.

        13                      So this is a difficult concept

        14       for me.  I'm torn between what I see as

        15       significant rights, significant protections, but

        16       I believe that if you support the notion that

        17       cameras should be in the courtroom, if you

        18       support the notion that the public should be

        19       allowed to go into the courtrooms in this state,

        20       to allow a witness to unilaterally close the

        21       door gives too much power to a witness to defeat

        22       the beneficial purpose of this bill.

        23                      SENATOR LACK:  Mr. President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Lack, why do you rise?







                                                             
7031

         1                      SENATOR LACK:  As the sponsor of

         2       the bill, I would like to -

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We have a

         4       list going.

         5                      SENATOR LACK:  Oh, I think, Mr.

         6       President, you should recognize me for a moment,

         7       if you would.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Pardon?

         9                      SENATOR LACK:  I think you should

        10       recognize me for a moment with respect to the

        11       bill.  I don't think the waiting list will

        12       mind.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Pardon,

        14       Senator Connor?

        15                      I have a list, Senator Lack,

        16       going, and if you want to ask Senator Dollinger

        17       to yield to a question while he has the floor

        18       before you're released, that's fine, but -- or

        19       I'll put you next.

        20                      SENATOR LACK:  No.  I'm standing

        21       to make a motion with respect to the bill, which

        22       I believe will take precedence over it and

        23       without objection of anybody in the body in the

        24       course of making that motion, that it will

        25       require me to make a statement for a moment or







                                                             
7032

         1       two.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Connor, you have any objection to Senator Lack?

         4                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President, I

         5       would just like to briefly comment on this bill

         6       and make one thing clear.  I am for the concept

         7       of cameras in the courts, as I have said.  I am

         8       for openness in the courts.  I am also for

         9       openness in the Legislature.  We vote on bills.

        10       This is a bill we saw for the first time-- or

        11       most of us saw for the first time an hour and a

        12       quarter ago.  There are obviously problems with

        13       it.  Those who -- and I, in my early days, was

        14       against the concept of cameras in the court but

        15       I became a believer but when the newspaper

        16       publishers, Court TV and others who are

        17       concerned about this say they're against this

        18       bill, I listen and I listen not because they

        19       tell me where to be or their position is

        20       dispositive.  I listen because they have an

        21       interest and they ought to get more than an hour

        22       and a quarter to state their case on a

        23       particular bill about why they may have

        24       objections.

        25                      In view of that, Mr. President, I







                                                             
7033

         1       would be happy to yield to Senator Lack.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Lack.

         4                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.  Thank you, Senator Connor, for

         6       yielding.

         7                      Senator Connor, as you know, you

         8       might have just seen the language a few moments

         9       ago but the language with respect to S.5708,

        10       indeed, has actually been around, been discussed

        11       for probably the better part of two weeks.  Some

        12       of the language which is complained about on the

        13       floor of the Senate is language that has been -

        14       would you close the door, please -- language has

        15       been complained about emanates from requests

        16       made by the Assembly with respect to the exact

        17       same types of situations that both Senator Gold

        18       and Senator Dollinger referred to in trying to

        19       balance the rights of victims and witnesses

        20       versus the rights of the public parties to any

        21       particular litigation, et cetera.  It was

        22       specifically at the request of the Assembly and

        23       the Assembly Majority that language was included

        24       which gave witnesses their right to turn off -

        25       not only to have the so-called blue dot which is







                                                             
7034

         1       current law but also turn off the audio portion

         2       of cameras in the courtroom to take away

         3       whatsoever any statement made by the witness.

         4       That was to balance, particularly where the

         5       witness is a victim, his or her belief that

         6       their situation as a victim was aggravated by

         7       the presence of cameras in the courtroom.  That

         8       is not a provision that emanated from the

         9       Senate.  It emanated from the Assembly Majority,

        10       part of the negotiations.  They wanted it -

        11       they wanted it in the bill and so be it, it has

        12       been put in the bill.  It is my personal belief

        13       that that still allows for cameras in the

        14       courtroom and, in fact, is not different from

        15       some provisions that exist in other states but

        16       so be it.

        17                      If there are members of this

        18       chamber who feel that the language requested by

        19       the Assembly Majority should not be in the bill,

        20       far be it for me to disagree and far be it for

        21       me to have a bill pass this house where there is

        22       disagreement because of language that has

        23       emanated from the Assembly Majority.

        24                      So, Mr. President, I move to

        25       strike the enacting clause of S.5708, as the







                                                             
7035

         1       sponsor.  Please strike the enacting clause.  If

         2       you would like it more properly, Mr. President,

         3       please lay the bill aside and I'll move to

         4       strike the enacting clause.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Lack, I think that would be the appropriate

         7       procedure because a vote was taken on the bill.

         8       So we will withdraw the roll call, lay the bill

         9       aside at your request.  Now if you would like to

        10       move to strike the enacting clause, I'll

        11       entertain that motion.  The motion is to strike

        12       the enacting clause on Senate Bill -- Calendar

        13       Number 1535, Senate 1997 -- excuse me -- 5708.

        14       All those in favor of the motion signify by

        15       saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye".)

        17                      Opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The motion is successful.

        20                      Senator Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        22       would you call up Calendar Number 1493, Senate

        23       Bill Number 5410-C.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Secretary will read.







                                                             
7036

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       1493, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5410-C,

         3       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

         4       Law, in relation to the management of marine

         5       fisheries.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there a

         9       message of necessity at the desk?

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There is.

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to accept.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       motion is to accept the message of necessity on

        14       Calendar Number 1493, Senate Print 5410-C.  All

        15       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye".)

        17                      Opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The message is accepted.

        20                      The Secretary will read the last

        21       section.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 13.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        25       roll.







                                                             
7037

         1                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 49.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  I believe

         9       there's a privileged resolution at the desk by

        10       Senator Libous.  I ask that the title be read

        11       and move its immediate adoption.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return to

        13       motions and resolutions order and the Secretary

        14       will read the title to the privileged resolution

        15       at the desk by Senator Libous.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        17       Libous, Legislative Resolution 2099, commending

        18       the United Communities Against Substance Abuse

        19       upon the occasion of its designation as the

        20       recipient of the New York Conference of Mayors

        21       Local Government Achievement Award.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        24       favor signify by saying aye.

        25                      (Response of "Aye".)







                                                             
7038

         1                      Opposed, nay.

         2                      (There was no response.)

         3                      The resolution is adopted.

         4                      Senator Skelos.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         6       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Nothing

         8       at the desk, Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  A reminder to

        10       the members of the Majority, there will be a

        11       Majority Conference at 11:00 a.m. on Tuesday,

        12       July 22nd, and there being no further business,

        13       I move we adjourn until Tuesday, July 22nd, at

        14       12:00 noon, intervening days to be legislative

        15       days.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        17       objection, hearing no objection, the Senate

        18       stands adjourned until Tuesday -- for an

        19       announcement, Senator Paterson?

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        21       there will be a conference of the Minority,

        22       Minority Conference in the Minority Conference

        23       Room at 11:30.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  For the

        25       benefit of the members, before the adjournment







                                                             
7039

         1       of the house, there will be a Majority

         2       Conference in the Majority Conference Room next

         3       Tuesday at 11:00 a.m., a Minority Conference in

         4       the Minority Conference Room at 11:30 a.m. and

         5       without objection, the Senate stands adjourned

         6       until next Tuesday, July 22nd, at 12:00 noon

         7       sharp.

         8                      (Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the

         9       Senate adjourned.)

        10

        11

        12

        13

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18