Regular Session - March 9, 1998
1382
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 9, 1998
11 3:06 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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1383
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (Microphones inoperative)
3 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
4 come to order. Would you please rise and join
5 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (The assemblage repeated the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 The invocation today will be
9 given by Reverend Alonzo C. Pruitt, Rector of
10 St. Philip's Episcopal Church in Brooklyn.
11 REVEREND PRUITT: Almighty God,
12 our heavenly Father, beloved father of our
13 Lord Jesus Christ, Thou who art known as the
14 Son, as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
15 and known to others as Allah and to still
16 others as the divine (inaudible). We give You
17 thanks and praise for the privilege we have of
18 being a part of the world You have created and
19 as we pray for all people in every place, we
20 especially pray for the people of the United
21 States and particularly for the more than
22 18,100,000 residents of our great Empire
23 State. As we ask Your blessing upon the
24 Executive, Judicial and Legislative branches
25 of our government, we especially pray for our
1384
1 distinguished Governor. We ask, O Lord, that
2 mindful of our motto, we might be all things
3 to whomever, that all of us might bring all
4 people together and might accomplish the will
5 and purpose of God. In Jesus' name we pray.
6 Amen.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Amen. Reading
8 of the Journal, please.
9 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
10 Friday, March 6th. The Journal of Thursday,
11 March 5th, was read and approved. On motion,
12 Senate adjourned.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Without
14 objection, the Journal stands approved as
15 read.
16 Presentation of petitions.
17 Messages from the Assembly.
18 Messages from the Governor.
19 Reports of standing
20 committees.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
22 President, I'm aware that we have a message
23 from the Assembly delivered to this chamber on
24 March 4th of last week.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
1385
1 read.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: If so, I'd
3 like to have it read and introduced at this
4 time.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
6 Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Without going
8 into a dialogue with members of the desk,
9 seeing them shake their heads, I believe
10 there's no message, so perhaps if we could
11 move along and they could see if it could be
12 located.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
15 Paterson, it is not yet at the desk.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
17 one second.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, just if I
22 can make an inquiry. I have something in
23 front of me which I understand was passed in
24 the Assembly. It basically -- and I wondered
25 whether it had reached the desk and should be
1386
1 read in, but just in case there's a mis
2 understanding, I -- let me, it's very short.
3 I want to read this, and then we can know
4 whether we're talking about the exact same
5 document.
6 This says: WHEREAS the term of
7 the Regents of the University of the State of
8 New York -
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam
10 President, is there a message from the
11 Assembly at the desk?
12 THE PRESIDENT: No.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: May we then
14 proceed.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Madam
16 President -
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.
18 SENATOR GOLD: I wanted to find
19 out if this would be -
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Just a moment.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold,
22 I'm not going to interrupt you. I'm just
23 going to look into this for a moment, please.
24 Senator Gold, would you finish
25 your comment, please.
1387
1 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Madam
2 President.
3 I don't think I can be out of
4 order before I raise my question.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: May I ask -
6 THE PRESIDENT: He's just
7 posing a question about the order.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Has the Chair
9 ruled that there is no message at the desk?
10 THE PRESIDENT: That is
11 correct.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Then I think
13 it would be appropriate if we continue through
14 the agenda and if, at some point, if find the
15 message, we can return to reports of the
16 Assembly.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: A point of
18 order, Madam President.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Madam
20 President.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: I think the
22 point of order has been raised already.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator
24 Paterson.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand
1388
1 the Majority Leader's point of order.
2 However, what I was addressing is exactly his
3 point of order. He inquired whether or not
4 this message has been received at the desk,
5 and I have been informed by the Assembly that
6 this message was delivered on March 4th, a
7 Wednesday, Wednesday of last week and again,
8 on March 6th, on Friday, and so I would ask
9 that the desk take a good look, because I -- I
10 think the message is there.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Madam
12 President. Madam President.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Madam
15 President. I rose to make an inquiry of the
16 Chair and was interrupted by someone on the
17 other side, and -
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Is a point of
19 order now an interruption in your mind?
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos,
21 please let Senator Gold just continue his
22 question.
23 Go ahead.
24 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
25 as I understood the point of order, I don't
1389
1 understand it. I'm making it through the
2 Chair. Is it out of order for a member to
3 make an inquiry of the Chair?
4 THE PRESIDENT: No.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Well. Then, I
6 would like to make my inquiry of the Chair.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Could I have a
8 ruling on my point of order in that you've
9 already said the message is not at the desk.
10 THE PRESIDENT: I have ruled
11 that there is no message at the desk, but
12 Senator Gold is raising a question about that
13 issue.
14 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Madam
15 President, I'm not questioning his point of
16 order. I have nothing to do with it. I mean
17 the man doesn't listen. I'm asking the
18 question of the Chair. If he has a point of
19 order that says I'm not allowed to make an
20 inquiry of the Chair, we can discuss that
21 point of order but I just rose to make an
22 inquiry of the Chair which, under the rules,
23 I'm allowed to do.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, please
25 continue.
1390
1 SENATOR GOLD: This is my
2 inquiry of the Chair. Madam President, I have
3 a piece of paper -
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Can I have a
5 ruling on my point of order first?
6 SENATOR GOLD: May I have the
7 point of order stated.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Right now,
9 Senator Gold is raising a question of the
10 Chair.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: The point of
12 order is basically, Senator Gold, that you're
13 out of order at this point, that the Chair has
14 ruled that the message from the Assembly is
15 not at the desk.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: You asked if
17 there is a message. They said there is no
18 message at the desk and that we should then
19 proceed with the calendar.
20 SENATOR GOLD: I agree with his
21 point of order.
22 Point of inquiry, Madam
23 President.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: What's
25 important now is a ruling on the point of
1391
1 order.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Would you
3 please let Senator Gold continue with his
4 point of order.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President,
6 I'd like to continue.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Assuming there
9 was a piece of paper that said, WHEREAS, the
10 term of the Regents of the University of the
11 State of New York for the 11th and 12th
12 Judicial District expires April 1, 1998; and.
13 WHEREAS, such position -
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam
15 President, as part of my point of order, could
16 I ask Senator Gold what's his inquiry since
17 you've already ruled that there's no message
18 from the Assembly at the desk.
19 THE PRESIDENT: We will know
20 what his inquiry is when he continues.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Now, if he
22 would like to speak at the end of session
23 where it's appropriate and speak at that time,
24 he could.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos,
1392
1 please let Senator Gold continue his inquiry.
2 Thank you. Go ahead.
3 SENATOR GOLD: WHEREAS, said
4 positions have not been filed by -- or filled
5 by concurrent resolution of the Senate and
6 Assembly by March 3, 1998; and
7 WHEREAS, pursuant to Section
8 202 of the Education Law, when a concurrent
9 resolution is not passed, the Senate and
10 Assembly shall meet in joint session at noon
11 on the second Tuesday of March and proceed to
12 elect Regents by joint ballot; and
13 WHEREAS, such joint ballot is
14 to be cast by members of the Legislature
15 meeting in a unicameral body;
16 NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED
17 that the honorable members of the Senate are
18 advised that pursuant to Section 202 of the
19 Education Law, the time and place of such
20 meeting has been established to be noon on
21 Tuesday, March 10, 1998 in the Assembly
22 Chamber; and
23 IT IS FURTHER RESOLVED that
24 upon adoption of this resolution, a copy of
25 the same shall be transmitted to the Senate.
1393
1 Now, Madam President, assuming
2 there was a piece of paper with that language
3 in it, may I ask if a piece of paper with that
4 language in it was delivered to this house by
5 the Assembly?
6 THE PRESIDENT: According to
7 the desk, no.
8 SENATOR GOLD: All right, Madam
9 President. I have another inquiry of the
10 Chair.
11 Madam President, it's my
12 understanding that, under Section 202, of the
13 Education Law, if the houses of the
14 Legislature have not agreed by joint
15 resolution that there be someone elected to
16 fulfill a post of Regent, that as a matter of
17 operation by law, there will be a meeting of
18 both houses on the -- the Tuesday involved
19 which, in this particular case would be March
20 10th, 1998, in the Assembly Chamber; and my
21 question so that I may know my own conduct
22 tomorrow, Madam President, is, is it not a
23 fact that in the operation of law, if we were
24 to, as elected members of the Legislature,
25 follow the law, which would be interesting,
1394
1 that we are all due in the Assembly Chamber at
2 12 noon tomorrow?
3 THE PRESIDENT: That would be
4 correct.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Madam
6 President.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Ms. President,
8 could we now move to messages from the
9 Governor.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Messages
11 from the Governor.
12 Reports of standing
13 committees.
14 The Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo,
16 from the Committee on Civil Service and
17 Pensions, reports the following bills:
18 Senate Print 3052-A, by Senator
19 Trunzo, an act to amend the Retirement and
20 Social Security Law;
21 3275-A, by Senator Trunzo, an
22 act to amend the Retirement and Social
23 Security Law;
24 4806-D, by Senator Spano, an
25 act to amend the Retirement and Social
1395
1 Security Law; and
2 6179, by Senator Trunzo, an act
3 to amend the Retirement and Social Security
4 Law.
5 All bills ordered direct for
6 third reading.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Without
8 objection, all bills direct to third reading.
9 Reports of select committees.
10 Communications and reports from
11 state officers.
12 Motions and resolutions.
13 Senator Meier.
14 SENATOR MEIER: Madam
15 President, on behalf of Senator Skelos, on
16 page 18, I offer the following amendments to
17 Calendar Number 317, Print Number 310, and ask
18 that said bill retain its place on the Third
19 Reading Calendar.
20 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
21 SENATOR MEIER: Madam
22 President, on behalf of Senator Wright, on
23 page number 15, I offer the following
24 amendments to Calendar Number 272, Print
25 Number 2167, and ask that said bill retain its
1396
1 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
2 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
3 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos,
6 there is a substitution at the desk.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Make the
8 substitution.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
10 read.
11 THE SECRETARY: On page 10,
12 Senator Johnson moves to discharge from the
13 Committee on Agriculture Assembly Bill Number
14 6754-C, and substitute it for the identical
15 Third Reading Calendar 187.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution
17 ordered.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam
19 President.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
21 Skelos.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe
23 there's a privileged resolution at the desk,
24 sponsored by Senator Johnson. I ask that the
25 title be read and move for its immediate
1397
1 adoption.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
3 read.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
5 Johnson, Legislative Resolution commending
6 Alice Gordon upon the occasion of her
7 designation as Employee of the Year by the New
8 York State Developmental Planning Council.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The question is
10 on the resolution. All in favor please
11 signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed nay.
14 (There was no response. )
15 The resolution is adopted.
16 Senator Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam
18 President, could we take up the
19 non-controversial calendar.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will
21 read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 62, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 35-A, an
24 act to amend the Education Law and the Public
25 Officers Law, in relation to the Board of
1398
1 Regents of the University of the State of New
2 York.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside,
4 please.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Laid aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 63, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print Number
8 303-A, an act to amend the Education Law, in
9 relation to the Board of Regents of the
10 University of the State of New York.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Laid aside.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 97, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3069, an
16 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
17 relation to the defense of guilty but mentally
18 ill.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
20 for the day.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside
22 for the day, please.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 143, by Senator Volker, Senate Print Number
25 1467-B, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure
1399
1 Law, the Family Court Act and the Penal Law,
2 in relation to crimes involving firearms.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
4 section, please.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 13.
6 This act shall take effect on the first day of
7 November.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the
10 roll. )
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
13 passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 170, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 463, an
16 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
17 expanding student aid programs for Vietnam and
18 Persian Gulf veterans.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5.
22 This act shall take effect on the 120th
23 day.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
25 the roll.
1400
1 (The Secretary called the
2 roll. )
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 203, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6011-A,
8 an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation
9 to the designation of the Mayor Frank Ratigan
10 Memorial Bridge.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
14 This act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the
18 roll. )
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 218, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3267-A,
24 an act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
25 non-resident volunteer firefighters.
1401
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
4 This act shall take effect on the last day of
5 January.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
7 the roll.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 225, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 454.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay
15 the bill aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 226, by Senator Johnson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay the bill
19 aside.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay
21 the bill aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 244, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly
24 Print 8870, an act to amend Chapter 84 of the
25 Laws of 1993, amending the Private Housing
1402
1 Finance Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
5 This act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the
9 roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 245, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly
15 Print 8869, an act to amend Chapter 449 of the
16 Laws of 1986, amending the Private Housing
17 Finance Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
21 This act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
23 the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the
25 roll.)
1403
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number
5 246, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly
6 Print 8871, an act to amend Chapter 777 of the
7 Laws of 1986, amending the Private Housing
8 Finance Law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
12 This act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
18 bill is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 250, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5150, an
21 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
22 relation to disinterested persons eligible to
23 conduct investigations.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
25 the last section.
1404
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the
6 roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 251, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5176, an
12 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
13 relation to capacity of foster family boarding
14 homes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
18 This act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the
22 roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
25 bill is passed.
1405
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 252, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5223, an
3 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
4 to court reviews of extension of out-of-state
5 foster care placements.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
9 This act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the
13 roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 280, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 306, an
19 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
20 relation to limiting plea bargaining for
21 sexual offenders.
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay
24 the bill aside.
25 Senator Skelos, that completes
1406
1 the reading of the non-controversial
2 calendar.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
4 take up the controversial calendar, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
6 Secretary will read the controversial
7 calendar.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 62 -
10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
12 Senator Gold.
13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Is
14 Calendar Number 317 on our calendar?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: That
16 was amended earlier today, Senator Gold.
17 Secretary will continue the
18 reading of the controversial calendar.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 62, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 35-A, an
21 act to amend the Education Law, and the Public
22 Officers Law, in relation to the Board of
23 Regents of the University of the State of New
24 York.
25 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
1407
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Senator Gold.
3 SENATOR GOLD: A few questions.
4 I don't know whether the Senator would prefer
5 to explain the bill.
6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I'd
7 like to speak about the bill for a few minutes
8 and then I'd certainly love to answer any
9 questions, if I could.
10 SENATOR GOLD: No problem.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
12 Senator LaValle.
13 SENATOR LAVALLE: For purposes
14 of the debate, discussion, I'd like to talk
15 about both Calendar Number 62 and Calendar
16 Number 63.
17 These bills have been discussed
18 and debated on this floor before and they have
19 been put in to reform a process that is in
20 need of repair. It is a process that we are
21 talking about the election and selection of
22 members of the Board of Regents at a time when
23 we are doing the budget, and so Senate Bill
24 303-A moves the process for the selection of
25 Regents to make it consistent with when we
1408
1 talk about education matters and vote on
2 school budgets throughout the state, the third
3 Tuesday in May, and we make the terms of the
4 members of the Board of Regents consistent
5 with those of school board members that have a
6 term from July 1st to June the 30th. We go
7 beyond that in Calendar Number 62, which is
8 really the -- the main bill that goes to the
9 heart of the reform.
10 As many of you know, we vote on
11 members of the Board of Regents, and many of
12 the members are -- scratch their heads and
13 say, How did these people come before us?
14 Where did they come from? That, of course, has
15 always been a good question. The process in
16 the last number of years has been refined
17 somewhat by the Legislature to at least
18 provide members who have been selected by
19 whatever bizarre methodology, but at least
20 they come before the Education Committees; but
21 there is no rhyme or reason on how the members
22 who the committee and ultimately the members
23 of the Legislature will be voting on, how they
24 got into the process or even what kind of
25 credentials the individuals should have; and
1409
1 so in this legislation we replicate a process
2 that seems to work that is non-partisan -
3 non-partisan -- and that process is the way we
4 select members who come before us for the
5 Court of Appeals.
6 We set up a commission. The
7 Speaker has four appointments, President Pro
8 Tem has four appointments. The Minority
9 Leaders in each of the houses have two
10 appointments. So we have a body of 12 people
11 that would draw up what qualifications we
12 would be looking for and actually go through a
13 screening process and recommend to the
14 Legislature, to the committees three names for
15 each position. The committees then hold public
16 hearings -- public hearings -- on the
17 credentials, and select one member to come
18 before the Legislature for a vote.
19 We do other things. We -- many
20 of you may not realize, but the Board of
21 Regents, their meetings, you cannot find a
22 transcript for meetings of the Board of
23 Regents. Here we are in an era when we have
24 open meetings and people looking for
25 transcripts. You will not find transcripts.
1410
1 We have the Governor
2 recommending both the chancellor and the
3 vice-chancellor, with the advice and consent
4 of the Senate. We ask that members of the
5 Board of Regents hold local public hearings in
6 each of the judicial districts. We ask that
7 they create advisory committees to advise
8 them, made up of all the stakeholders that
9 make up the educational community to give them
10 input, and lastly, we ask that the chancellor
11 and the Commissioner of Education come before
12 the legislative committees to answer questions
13 that the Legislature may have on the education
14 plan that is merely filed before the
15 Legislature; and so what we want is a public
16 discussion of the Regents education plan.
17 We believe that these reforms
18 bring us into the modern time. It honors the
19 integrity of the Legislature and the bicameral
20 nature of the Legislature. It honors the
21 integrity of each member's participation and
22 their vote in the process, and also what we've
23 talked about over and over on this floor, it
24 opens up the process to have public hearings,
25 public meetings, and an opportunity for
1411
1 participation at a time when the members are
2 not preoccupied with the budget process.
3 Senator Gold, I'll answer any
4 questions you might have.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very
6 much.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
8 Senator Gold.
9 SENATOR GOLD: But to begin
10 with, just to clarify the record, it's my
11 understanding that Phil Simms, who works for
12 our desk people, did in fact sign on March 4th
13 for the Assembly resolution, and I think that
14 there might be some clarification, Mr.
15 President, if we could now check with the desk
16 people as to whether or not the Assembly
17 resolution actually did reach the Senate.
18 Would you do that for me, sir?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Well,
20 Senator, I believe there's a bill before the
21 house right now.
22 SENATOR GOLD: I'm not in a
23 hurry.
24 Yeah, would the Senator yield
25 to a question?
1412
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, at page
4 1 and 2 of your bill, I believe you are
5 amending -
6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Is that
7 Senate Bill 35-A, Senator?
8 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir. Yes,
9 sir.
10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
11 SENATOR GOLD: I believe that
12 on pages 1 and 2 you start off by amending
13 Section 202 of the Education Law, isn't that
14 correct?
15 SENATOR LAVALLE: That's
16 correct.
17 SENATOR GOLD: If you will
18 yield to another question, please.
19 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir.
20 SENATOR GOLD: On page 2, lines
21 11 through 24, I believe is new language and
22 that language would go right after the word
23 "Legislature" on line 5 where you take out
24 language on lines 5 through lines 10, is that
25 correct?
1413
1 SENATOR LAVALLE: It begins on
2 line 5, with the terms "by concurrent
3 resolution".
4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah.
5 SENATOR LAVALLE: And ends on
6 line 10 with the words "by joint ballot".
7 SENATOR GOLD: And those words
8 would be eliminated if this becomes a law.
9 SENATOR LAVALLE: That is
10 correct.
11 SENATOR GOLD: And it goes
12 without saying that we can't eliminate it if
13 it were in the law today, those words were the
14 law today, is that correct?
15 SENATOR LAVALLE: That is
16 correct, Senator.
17 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
18 Senator, reading from page 2 of your bill,
19 line 5, it says, "Each Regent shall be elected
20 by the Legislature by concurrent resolution in
21 the preceding March on or before the first
22 Tuesday of that month." Senator, that has not
23 happened this year, has it?
24 SENATOR LAVALLE: That is
25 correct.
1414
1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Then it
2 says -
3 SENATOR LAVALLE: By the way,
4 Senator, I might add that that has not
5 happened. The last time I believe was 1993,
6 when we had -- is that correct? 1993 when we
7 had elected a Regent by concurrent
8 resolution. As a matter of fact, I believe 11
9 of the 16 Regents have been elected in joint
10 session, Senator.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. Presi
12 dent,if the Senator would yield to a question.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
14 Senator Gold.
15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, then on
16 line 7 it continues, "If, however, the
17 Legislature fails to agree on such concurrent
18 resolution, then the two houses shall meet in
19 joint session at noon on the second Tuesday of
20 such month and then proceed to elect such
21 Regent by joint ballot."
22 Now, Senator, in the sentence I
23 just read which is existing law, and I refer
24 you to line 9, it doesn't say, does it, that
25 the two houses may meet or might meet, says
1415
1 that they shall meet, isn't that true?
2 SENATOR LAVALLE: That -- that
3 is, Senator, I think you've read those words
4 correctly in what is the existing law.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. And,
6 Senator, that -- that line doesn't say that
7 it's even necessary or for there to be a joint
8 resolution of each house calling for that
9 session. It says that that session happens by
10 operation of law, doesn't it?
11 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, you
12 might -- you might argue that. That is, that
13 certainly is an argument. On the other hand,
14 it has long been, by custom and tradition,
15 that -- and particularly if you look at the
16 last number of years, that the Assembly has
17 sent a resolution to this house indicating
18 that there was no agreement by concurrent
19 resolution on the preceding Tuesday, and that
20 we would be meeting in unicameral joint
21 session, and the time of 12:00 noon was
22 mentioned on the date of the follow -- of the
23 following Tuesday. So that that has been -
24 that has been what the custom and tradition
25 has been in executing the language of this
1416
1 law.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if the
3 Senator will yield to a question.
4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I hope
8 it's not your position that, if the law of the
9 state of New York created by this Legislature
10 and signed by a Governor states that if we do
11 not do an act by the first Tuesday of -- of
12 March, and states very clearly that we shall
13 -- doesn't say may, it doesn't say, if you
14 like it, if you didn't like it, it says
15 "shall", and it even says where it's going to
16 be. It says we shall be in joint session in
17 joint ballot at 12:00 noon.
18 Senator, are you suggesting
19 that we have, by tradition or by custom, have
20 the right to change the wording of that
21 statute?
22 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I
23 think the -- I don't think we are changing it,
24 but that has been what has happened over the
25 -- over the years, and I might not make the
1417
1 argument that because we didn't have a
2 resolution that we had necessarily a failed
3 process. I mean I just have a problem that
4 the process is failed to begin with, when
5 members of this house are not even needed to
6 participate to have a quorum for such a joint
7 session, because the Assembly on their own can
8 provide the 106 votes that are needed for a
9 quorum.
10 So the Senate is immaterial to
11 the process. You, Senator, are; I am,
12 inconsequential to the process, and the people
13 that sent you here to cast a vote on behalf of
14 the Regents, so the process itself is failed
15 and you're arguing about whether the
16 resolution would be violative to your reading
17 of the statute.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
20 Senator Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, on the
22 bill.
23 Senator LaValle, your last
24 comments were extraordinarily, extraordinarily
25 important and interesting. You are a member
1418
1 of the Majority in a house, and let's forget
2 the joint session. According to the
3 leadership of your party, we're not even
4 relevant in this house. You can have a quorum
5 without us. You pass bills, whether we like
6 it or not, without us. You ignore bills which
7 we put in which could benefit the people of
8 the state, and that doesn't seem to bother
9 you.
10 Day after day after day,
11 motions to discharge are made on bills which
12 have great merit. Suggestions are made by
13 this Minority that have great merit and,
14 Senator LaValle, as someone who truly, without
15 any sarcasm, respects you very, very much as a
16 person and as a legislator, but you on a
17 day-to-day basis don't complain that this
18 Minority is shut off.
19 I think it's interesting that
20 you complain that the Senate you believe is
21 shut out in the process of electing a Regent,
22 and the only reason you really complain about
23 that is because you know, being as intelligent
24 as you are, that when you add Republican to
25 Republican and Democrat to Democrat in each of
1419
1 the houses, this Majority in this house of
2 Republicans has not as much power as you would
3 like to have in that session; but that's what
4 the real complaint is.
5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator Gold.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir.
7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Did you ask
8 me to yield for a question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
10 Senator LaValle, are you asking Senator Gold
11 to yield to a question?
12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
15 Senator LaValle, are you asking Senator Gold
16 to yield.
17 SENATOR LAVALLE: I yielded the
18 floor, and I was going to continue on with an
19 answer.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
21 Senator LaValle, just to be clear, Senator
22 Gold is on the bill. Senator Gold, do you
23 yield to Senator LaValle?
24 SENATOR GOLD: Not really, but
25 maybe.
1420
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Senator Gold, the Chair needs to know whether
3 or not you yield.
4 SENATOR GOLD: I believe I
5 yielded the floor to Senator LaValle to
6 explain the bill and then to ask some
7 questions, but I believe I did have the
8 floor. I'll be finished in just a minute.
9 Thank you, Senator LaValle.
10 Senator LaValle, the bottom
11 line here is a simple one and that is that,
12 although like everything that's passed by this
13 house day in and day out, I got elected to be
14 here and to participate in the process, and I
15 do it, and it would seem to me that the
16 Majority in this house which comes here every
17 day when it can throw out its chest and bully
18 everybody because you're in the Majority,
19 ought to understand that the law is the law
20 and, Senator, I think the desk, which is
21 always honorable, and which acts in the best
22 interest of the Senate all the time, will be
23 glad to tell you that on March 4th, Phil Simms
24 did, in fact, sign for Assembly Resolution
25 1660, wherein the Assembly passed the
1421
1 resolution to set up the joint session in
2 conformity with the statute, and I would say
3 to the leadership of this house that I for one
4 intend to obey the law and be in the Assembly
5 Chamber tomorrow for a joint session, and I
6 would hope that after all we hear today and
7 all we've heard in the past from the Majority
8 about the obligations we have to the law of
9 the state of New York, that all members will
10 obey the law and be in the Assembly Chamber
11 tomorrow.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
13 Senator LaValle.
14 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 I really want to just briefly
17 comment on something that Senator Gold talked
18 about that I think is very, very important.
19 The remarks that I made, Senator, you may have
20 some differences of opinion on what happens
21 within this house and question a rule but,
22 Senator, what I am questioning is the fact
23 that in our Constitution it establishes a
24 bicameral legislature, and the selection of
25 the Board of Regents and the methodology flies
1422
1 in the face of the bicameral legislature
2 created by our Constitution; so it's something
3 far bigger and far broader and the importance
4 is that each of our votes, each of our
5 participation counts.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
8 Senator Gold.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Will the
10 gentleman yield to one question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
12 Senator -- Senator LaValle, will you yield?
13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Sure.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
15 Senator LaValle yields, Senator Gold.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you
17 stated very eloquently that we have a
18 bicameral legislature, and the selection of
19 Regents, you say, flies in the face of that
20 but if you read the language of the existing
21 law, on page 2 of your bill it specifically
22 says that the Regent will be elected only by
23 joint resolution of the Legislature, which
24 means both houses, bicameral, both houses, or
25 it says that if they have can't do that, then
1423
1 the two houses will meet as one, and even
2 there the two houses must meet.
3 Now, Senator, you know as well
4 as I do, that if the Assembly Democrats wanted
5 to select somebody named Jones and the
6 Republicans in the Senate wanted Smith, and we
7 thought Smith was good, and if the Assembly
8 Republicans thought Smith was good, you know
9 very well that the Republicans in this house
10 and the Republicans in the Assembly together
11 with our Conference here would elect the
12 Regent, and I think if that happened, you
13 wouldn't complain at all about the quorum
14 requirements or the fact that we were meeting
15 in single unicameral fashion.
16 So, Senator, you know, you and
17 I have been friends and I hope we have a
18 mutual respect, we both know what we're
19 talking about, all right? The Republican
20 Majority in this house is used to having its
21 way and, unfortunately for them, when you put
22 the two houses together, you lose that
23 Majority and you get the feeling of what it is
24 to have things not exactly go your way.
25 I don't think it's any more
1424
1 than that.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
3 Senator LaValle.
4 SENATOR LAVALLE: If that was a
5 question, all I say, Senator, is that if you
6 want to defend that in light of our
7 Constitution that provides for a bicameral
8 legislature and a bicameral process, then
9 that's fine with me. I'm trying to change
10 that, and we historically should be looking
11 beyond a point in time and who controls the
12 Assembly or who controls the Senate, because
13 what is required under our Constitution is the
14 full participation of all its members, and it
15 is, you know, my feeling that it flies in the
16 face of the constitutional mandate that there
17 be a bicameral process.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
20 Senator Gold.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Would the
22 Senator yield to one question on his new
23 language?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
25 Senator LaValle.
1425
1 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yeah.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, on your
5 new language on the 3rd Tuesday in May, it
6 says, "***provided, however, such election
7 shall be held on the second Tuesday in May if
8 the Majority Leader of the Senate and the
9 Speaker so certify."
10 My question is, what if they
11 don't? What if one or the other doesn't; what
12 happens?
13 SENATOR LAVALLE: What we have
14 done deliberately here, as you know, we took
15 out all the language dealing with the joint
16 and concurrent resolution. We are
17 establishing, Senator, a new process that has
18 the commission making recommendations, and so
19 forth, and what we have done basically is for
20 good or bad and you might -- is for the
21 leaders, both the Speaker and the Majority
22 Leader, to work through that process so that
23 we can reach agreement on a -- on a candidate
24 that would be coming from the commission, and
25 would have undergone legislative hearings.
1426
1 And I say, you know, the
2 question that comes in here, there's some
3 language on -- if you look, it talks about the
4 first -- the first Tuesday, if that conflicts
5 with a religious observance, so that's where
6 the conflict comes in. It's not the same
7 process of what it is today. If we don't
8 reach agreement by concurrent resolution on
9 the first Tuesday, then we go to the second,
10 the second Tuesday in March, by joint
11 resolution.
12 We've taken that language out,
13 but we wanted to provide in case there was a
14 religious observance problem.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
16 Senator Lachman.
17 SENATOR LACHMAN: Mr.
18 President, on the issue.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
20 Senator Lachman, on the bill.
21 SENATOR LACHMAN: First, I
22 would like to share my colleagues' opinion of
23 the distinguished chairman of the Higher
24 Education Committee. I've worked with him now
25 for the last two and a half years, and he's a
1427
1 very thoughtful committed person, for the
2 betterment of education in New York State.
3 But I'd like to, if I may, take
4 the discussion out of this context and put it
5 into another context, and that is what is the
6 best possible method and selection of Regents
7 and commissioners of education that could best
8 serve all the school children of the state of
9 New York?
10 Now, there are two or three
11 possibilities for context. One is the
12 national context, and that's a little bit
13 confusing, I admit. There are five different
14 patterns in the United States within the 50
15 states. There's model one, which is adopted by
16 13 states, where the governor appoints the
17 Regents and the Regents then appoint the
18 commissioner of education.
19 Then there is a model, another
20 model, model two, where there is the direct
21 election of a state commissioner of education,
22 for example, as in the largest state in the
23 union, in the state of California, and the
24 governor appoints the members of the Regents.
25 Then there's model three with eight states
1428
1 where the Regents are elected, and they, in
2 turn, appoint the state commissioner of
3 education without it -- without any input from
4 the governor, and there's a fourth pattern,
5 where the governor appoints both the Regents
6 and the state commissioner of education, and
7 then there are ten states where there is no
8 pattern, and New York State fits into that
9 pattern where we in the state Legislature
10 appoint the Regents and the Regents appoint
11 the state Commissioner of Education.
12 Now, for many years I have been
13 thinking in a theoretical sense whether this
14 results in the best possible education for the
15 school children of the state of New York. Can
16 we improve upon the selection process so that
17 all children receive a better education?
18 Now, I would first, before even
19 considering such a bill, Senator, especially
20 the day before the selection of the members of
21 the state Board of Regents, of two new
22 members, consider another bill that you are in
23 favor of, and I am in favor of, and that is
24 the creation of an independent management
25 study of the organization of the Board of
1429
1 Regents and the entire state Education
2 Department.
3 I think that what we're doing
4 today would be in a sense putting the cart
5 before the horse. I would be in favor of the
6 bill that would have an independent management
7 study of the entire state Education
8 Department, including the selection of the
9 state Board of Regents, and the selection of
10 the state Commissioner of Education.
11 I can not at this point support
12 your bill, Senator LaValle, though I know its
13 good intentions. I hope that in the future,
14 we will be able to have a good independent
15 management study of education in the state of
16 New York, through the structure that brings
17 about this education, the state Education
18 Department and the Board of Regents, and then
19 perhaps consider a variant version of the bill
20 under discussion.
21 So I will have to vote against
22 the current bill.
23 Thank you.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
25 Senator Dollinger.
1430
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 I rise -- I voted for this bill
4 in the past, but I think I may change my mind,
5 and the reason why I think I may change my
6 mind is that the discussion today about the
7 injection of politics into the election of the
8 Board of Regents, it seems to me, if we do
9 what Senator LaValle wants, won't we be just
10 in exactly the same position that we're now in
11 with respect to the budget, that we need
12 agreement of all the houses and the Governor
13 before we can appoint anyone? Won't the
14 deadline in early March become as illusory as
15 the deadline in April? Won't the budget -
16 won't who sits on the Board of Regents become
17 subject to the exact same political pressures
18 as to how much money goes in the budget?
19 I'm astounded to some extent to
20 hear Senator LaValle say you can't get minutes
21 of the Board of Regents. The only thing they
22 do in this state is determine educational
23 policy. We can't get minutes of the Majority
24 Conference and you're going to whack up $72
25 billion of the people's money. We don't get
1431
1 minutes of that. We are the members of the
2 Minority; we don't get the minutes. We don't
3 know what that debate is. We don't see what
4 goes on. We're not privy to it. You exclude
5 us from that.
6 You're not, Senator -- with all
7 due respect when you stand here and say we
8 have to empower every single Senator, I wasn't
9 empowered enough to get my name on a bill that
10 I wrote, that I drafted, that I did all the
11 work on, that I got all the support memos for,
12 that I got the city of Rochester to support,
13 that I got the County of Monroe to support. I
14 couldn't get on the bill. That's how much
15 power I have in this chamber.
16 So when you have that members
17 of the Republican Majority need to be
18 empowered in the selection of the Board of
19 Regents, and the reason why they aren't is
20 because someone had the foresight in creating
21 this statute, they had the foresight to say
22 there will be a day when the Senate will be
23 controlled by one party, the Assembly will be
24 controlled by another and they said, we can
25 not allow the political dispute between the
1432
1 two houses to imperil the independent thinking
2 of the Board of Regents. So there's only one
3 way to resolve it. We create a unicameral
4 legislature, bring them all together, and
5 whichever party has the majority of the 211
6 members of the combined houses will then be
7 politically accountable to the Board of
8 Regents.
9 It is the only vote every year,
10 Senator, in which I am held accountable, and
11 this Board of Regents, quite frankly, has
12 appointed a stupendous education commissioner
13 who's driving home the debate about improving
14 the standards, who is talking about improving
15 the quality of urban education, vitally
16 important to me that represents three-quarters
17 of the city of Rochester, I'm enormously proud
18 that the people that I've elected had the
19 wisdom to pick an independent, far thinking,
20 visionary Commissioner of Education to lead
21 educational reform in this state. I'm willing
22 to be politically accountable for that. From
23 my point of view, it is all that I am
24 politically accountable for. It's the one
25 time my vote matters; but to take the vision
1433
1 of fashioning this statute years ago which
2 anticipated that there would be a deadlock and
3 realize that the only way to make a timely
4 decision and preserve the independence of the
5 board was to create a unicameral legislature
6 for one moment and allow the political process
7 to run its course, allow one political party
8 to be entirely responsible for the Board of
9 Regents, instead of having this fractured
10 accountability that we had even on the budget,
11 Senator LaValle, who knows in this state who's
12 at fault for late budgets in the last ten
13 years.
14 I'll give any political pundit
15 in this state a guess as to who's responsible,
16 and the answer is Democrats say it's
17 Republicans. Republicans say it's Democrats.
18 If you're in the Legislature, it's the
19 Governor, if you're in the Executive, it's the
20 Legislature. We have divided accountability.
21 We don't know who's calling the shots and
22 instead we have this one little absolute
23 accountability built into our state Board of
24 Regents in which the party that happens to
25 have a majority of the 211 members in both
1434
1 houses is completely politically accountable
2 for the decisions by the Board of Regents, for
3 who sits on it and for even who they appoint
4 as the commissioner.
5 With all due respect to Senator
6 LaValle, I understand why this bill flows, but
7 the suggestion that somehow we should take the
8 politics out, that what we would, in essence,
9 do if we adopted this bill, we would make the
10 politics of the Board of Regents no more than
11 trading off a prison in upstate New York, no
12 more than trading off pork barrel spending in
13 some other part of the state. It would become
14 wrapped up in the massive politics of spending
15 our $72 billion each year.
16 The Board of Regents, the
17 future of education, the independence of
18 education demands, I believe, that we keep
19 what we've got. It's the one true accountable
20 part of our system that seems to be working,
21 and I would just suggest I've voted for it in
22 the past, but I -- I can't continue to. I see
23 this system as working and it does have
24 political accountability attached to it, and I
25 think we ought to keep it.
1435
1 There will come a day, Senator
2 LaValle, as I'm sure there has been in the
3 past in this state in which the majority of
4 the 211 members of this Legislature will have
5 "Republican" next to their name instead of
6 "Democrat". Then you will be empowered to be
7 a majority in this one little tiny bit of
8 state government in which you are not
9 currently in a majority and in which your
10 sentiments, well expressed on this floor, have
11 been echoed by many members of this side of
12 the aisle for years and years and years and as
13 recently as last week when all the work that I
14 did was taken away from me for one simple
15 fact: I wasn't a Republican.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 12.
19 This act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
21 Senator LaValle.
22 SENATOR LAVALLE: May I have my
23 name called for purposes of explaining my
24 vote. I'd like to explain my vote.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
1436
1 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Just very
3 briefly, if those members who were talking
4 about a unicameral system, have a liking for a
5 unicameral system, then they must amend the
6 state Constitution.
7 I vote in the affirmative.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
11 Senator Leichter, to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
13 President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
15 Senator Leichter, to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I also voted
17 for this bill last year because I think,
18 frankly, there are provisions in there that I
19 think are excellent, but I must say, Senator
20 LaValle, I don't know whether the timing last
21 year was the same as now, and while I know you
22 have worked on this issue and are deeply
23 committed and concerned about improving the
24 Regents, the timing and the provisions in here
25 really came from politics. Really the thing
1437
1 that you say you're trying to avoid is
2 politicizing the Regents. It's obvious that
3 that's what you're doing, and this bill is
4 tainted because you put in this one provision
5 where you require both the approval of the
6 Speaker and the Majority Leader before the two
7 houses can convene, and Senator Dollinger is
8 absolutely correct. You want to paralyze the
9 selection of the Regents as we've paralyzed
10 the budget, and all of it is really ill grace
11 on the part of the Majority. They can't walk
12 in a room where they don't call the shots.
13 You should be there. You're
14 the chairman of Higher Education, and I think
15 you've got an obligation to be there, to be
16 part of that process even though, Senator,
17 you're not in the majority, and that's why I
18 can't really support the bill this year. Put
19 in a bill at another time, in June, when this
20 issue isn't before us. Do it in an honest,
21 non-political way and we'll support those good
22 provisions that are in there; but right now
23 this bill is badly tainted.
24 I vote no.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
1438
1 Senator Leichter will be recorded in the
2 negative, and the Chair failed to note Senator
3 LaValle will be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the
6 roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Those -
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Those reported
11 in the negative on Calendar Number 62 are
12 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,
13 Gentile, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz,
14 Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Rosado, Sampson,
15 Santiago, Seabrook, Smith, Stachowski,
16 Stavisky, also Senators Gold, Kruger and
17 Oppenheimer. Ayes 34, nays 21.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR GOLD: I want to make
22 an inquiry of the Chair, Mr. President.
23 Mr. President, it's my
24 understanding that on March 4th, Phil Simms of
25 the Senate desk, signed for Assembly
1439
1 Resolution 1660, and that earlier today there
2 might have been a miscommunication between the
3 desk and the Lieutenant Governor, perhaps I
4 have added to the confusion, and I take
5 responsibility but I just wanted to verify at
6 this point whether or not that resolution is
7 in the house.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9 I believe we're on the controversial
10 calendar.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
14 continue, and then there is a more appropriate
15 time for Senator Gold to get up and make his
16 request.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
18 I've made an inquiry of the Chair.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
20 Secretary will read.
21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
23 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
24 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, on an
25 inquiry of the Chair. I think it's
1440
1 appropriate to make an inquiry of the Chair.
2 Are you ruling that I'm out of order?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Appeal the
5 ruling of the Chair. Slow roll call.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
7 question is -- the question before the house
8 is, shall the ruling of the Chair be
9 overruled? An affirmative vote is to overrule
10 the ruling of the Chair. A negative vote is
11 to uphold the ruling of the Chair.
12 The Secretary will call the
13 roll.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate.
15 SENATOR ABATE: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi.
17 SENATOR ALESI: No.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator
19 Balboni.
20 SENATOR BALBONI: No.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Breslin.
23 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno.
25 (There was no audible
1441
1 response.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Connor.
4 (There was no audible
5 response.)
6 Senator Cook.
7 SENATOR COOK: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 DeFrancisco.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Dollinger.
13 (There was no response. )
14 Senator Farley.
15 SENATOR FARLEY: Nay.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Gentile.
18 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
21 to explain my vote.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
23 Senator Gold, to explain his vote.
24 SENATOR GOLD: And with my
25 apologies to the members on this side and to
1442
1 most of the members on the other side, but it
2 just shows you. We can have our differences,
3 and certainly Senator LaValle and I have
4 differences on philosophical issues, but I
5 certainly have a great respect for that
6 gentleman. We can have our differences, but
7 when one of the parts of this bicameral
8 legislature passes a resolution, sends it over
9 here, has it signed for by the clerk's office,
10 and then I gather out of fear of the fact that
11 the Majority Leader might not want to have it
12 'fessed up that the document is here, that we
13 go through this charade of ignoring that it's
14 in existence. That's what causes this.
15 Now, I was informed that
16 earlier today when I made the inquiry, perhaps
17 the wrong answer was given. So I figured
18 let's at least straighten it out. That would
19 have taken probably eight seconds. Reminds me
20 of an incident a week or so ago when something
21 could have been done in a right way and we
22 would have been out of there in about 30
23 seconds, but someone on your side insists all
24 the time on wasting your time and that's O.K.
25 with me as long as each and every one of you
1443
1 understands who causes the waste of time, and
2 I appreciate, by the way, the comments made to
3 me by many of you a week or so ago when that
4 incident happened, understanding very much who
5 causes the problems in this house. I
6 appreciated the comments that my Republican
7 colleagues made.
8 So, Mr. President, I'm sorry
9 you're put in the situation because we all
10 understand the politics of this house. It's a
11 shame that we couldn't get a simple answer as
12 to whether or not the resolution was here, and
13 I vote yes to overrule the Chair.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
15 Senator Gold will be recorded in the
16 affirmative.
17 The Secretary will continue to
18 read the roll.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Gonzalez.
21 (There was no response.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Goodman.
24 SENATOR GOODMAN: No.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator
1444
1 Hannon.
2 SENATOR HANNON: No.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4 Hoffmann.
5 (There was no response. )
6 Senator Holland.
7 SENATOR HOLLAND: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Johnson.
10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Nay.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Kruger.
13 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
15 SENATOR KUHL: Nay.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Lachman.
18 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
20 SENATOR LACK: No.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Larkin.
23 SENATOR LARKIN: No.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator
25 LaValle.
1445
1 SENATOR LAVALLE: No.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Leibell.
4 SENATOR LEIBELL: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Leichter.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Libous.
10 SENATOR LIBOUS: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Maltese.
13 (There was no response. )
14 Senator Marcellino.
15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Marchi.
18 SENATOR MARCHI: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Markowitz.
21 (There was no response. )
22 Senator Maziarz.
23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier.
25 SENATOR MEIER: No.
1446
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Mendez.
3 (There was no response. )
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez
5 excused.
6 Senator Montgomery.
7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Nanula.
10 SENATOR NANULA: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Nozzolio.
13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Onorato.
16 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Oppenheimer.
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan
21 excused.
22 Senator Paterson.
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
24 President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
1447
1 Senator Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
3 President, I hope the record will reflect that
4 on March -
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
6 Senator, do you wish to explain your vote?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
9 Senator Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
11 President, on March the 7th of 1995, I
12 inquired of the Chair as to whether or not
13 they had received a message from the Assembly
14 almost exactly similar to the message that was
15 transferred today. The message that year was
16 delivered on March the 6th, and after some
17 long discussion, it was acknowledged by the
18 temporary or Acting Temporary President,
19 Senator Kuhl, that the message was received.
20 That took an hour.
21 In 1996, and 1997 we had
22 similar inquiries by myself and Senator Gold
23 about this same one message which somehow
24 managed to elude the Chair for three years.
25 Now, on the fourth year, which
1448
1 is just now, I again made this inquiry today,
2 and again Senator Gold asked, and I think
3 quite admirably, as to whether or not we could
4 locate this particular message. So I think
5 just the transcripts from this session would
6 demonstrate that in four years now, it seems
7 very difficult to get the acknowledgement of a
8 message from the Assembly which, in the
9 present case, we've even brought forth the
10 actual document signed by someone in the
11 Journal Clerk's office receiving
12 acknowledgement, and all I think Senator Gold
13 was trying to get was a receipt of the -- of
14 the actual message from the Assembly, an
15 acknowledgement that it was actually received.
16 Now, in spite of whatever other
17 disagreements we might have, this was
18 something that was delivered. It was
19 delivered by our colleagues, and even if there
20 are members of this chamber who, for their own
21 reasons which I will accept, choose not to
22 respond to the message, still we are obligated
23 as colleagues and as professionals to
24 acknowledge the actions of our colleagues in
25 the Assembly.
1449
1 We could have truncated this
2 entire process simply by acknowledging it even
3 if we don't agree with it and, for that
4 reason, I'm going to have to support Senator
5 Gold's motion to appeal the the ruling of the
6 Chair with an affirmative vote.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
8 Senator Paterson will be recorded in the
9 affirmative.
10 Continue the reading of the
11 roll.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator
13 Present.
14 SENATOR PRESENT: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
16 SENATOR RATH: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Rosado.
19 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
21 SENATOR SALAND: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Sampson.
24 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator
1450
1 Santiago.
2 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4 Seabrook.
5 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Seward.
8 SENATOR SEWARD: No.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
13 SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
15 SENATOR SPANO: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Stachowski.
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
19 President, explain my vote.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
21 Senator Stachowski.
22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I wasn't
23 planning on saying anything, but David in
24 speaking of the history of some of these
25 resolutions reminds me of the fact that, in
1451
1 one of these processes I fell on the wrath of
2 Mary Carey, because she happened to be the
3 person who signed for it, and I'm just glad
4 that Mary Carey isn't the one who signed for
5 it this year.
6 I vote yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
8 Senator Stachowski will be recorded in the
9 affirmative.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Stafford.
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: No.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Stavisky.
15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Trunzo.
18 SENATOR TRUNZO: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Velella.
21 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr.
22 President, to explain my vote.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
24 Senator Velella.
25 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr.
1452
1 President, I've been here 12 years, and in the
2 time that I've been here, I believe that
3 everybody has had the opportunity to access
4 the floor and have their questions answered.
5 Senator Gold's answer will be
6 forthcoming in due time. The issue here is
7 who wastes the time. Bringing up an issue,
8 Senator Gold, at roll call of the calendar and
9 asking for special treatment is out of order.
10 You will be treated in due course like every
11 other Senator, and your question will be
12 answered at the appropriate time. We're not
13 going to give you any special treatment.
14 I think the Chair was
15 right in ruling him out of order. I vote
16 against the motion.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
18 Senator Velella will be recorded in the
19 negative.
20 Resume the reading of the
21 roll.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Volker.
24 SENATOR VOLKER: No.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon
1453
1 excused.
2 Senator Wright.
3 SENATOR WRIGHT: No.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
5 the absentees.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Dollinger.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Gonzalez.
11 (There was no response. )
12 Senator Hoffmann.
13 (There was no response. )
14 Senator Maltese.
15 (There was no response. )
16 Ayes 22, nays 32.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
18 motion to overrule the Chair is defeated. The
19 ruling of the Chair is upheld.
20 The Secretary will continue to
21 read the controversial calendar.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 63, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 303-A, an
24 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
25 the Board of Regents of the University of the
1454
1 State of New York.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER:
3 Explanation.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
5 Senator LaValle, an explanation has been asked
6 by Senator Dollinger.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
8 President.
9 SENATOR LAVALLE: In my
10 explanation on the first bill, maybe Senator
11 Dollinger was out of the room.
12 This bill really moves -
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I
14 apologize.
15 SENATOR LAVALLE: -- moves the
16 election process to the third Tuesday in May.
17 That's basically what it does, Senator.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
20 the last section.
21 Sorry, Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
23 President. If Senator LaValle would yield for
24 a question.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
1455
1 Senator LaValle, do you yield for a question
2 from Senator Paterson?
3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
5 Senator.
6 In attempting to comprehend
7 what this section would do, it occurs to me
8 that, if I could paraphrase what I believe you
9 were trying to accomplish in the bill, you're
10 saying that where we are with two houses of
11 the Legislature unable to agree in this
12 situation on candidates to accede to the Board
13 of Regents, that you would rather force the
14 two houses to work this situation out, rather
15 than to have a joint session of the two houses
16 in order to resolve the issue by voting as one
17 overall body.
18 SENATOR LAVALLE: That -- that
19 is correct, Senator, and it's consistent with
20 the first bill that we debated, for what this
21 bill really does and the reason we moved it as
22 a separate bill is it really gets to the
23 question of when the selection process should
24 be and, as I had indicated, to do it, you
25 know, in March when we're trying to
1456
1 contemplate and resolve budget issues, the
2 issues of selection of Regents are too
3 important to be doing in March, so it should
4 be done in May.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, I
6 agree with that, Senator, and I would say that
7 a greater amount of this bill reflects a
8 tremendous amount of research and a lot of
9 common sense on the subject, and I commend you
10 for putting together this work. I'm just
11 curious as to why in the current bill, the one
12 we're discussing, there is absolutely no
13 mention in the previous bill, the one Calendar
14 62, which we prev... just discussed, it does
15 at least outline the procedure, but here it
16 just says that the Regents will be elected.
17 It doesn't really say that it would occur by a
18 unicameral legislative -- legislature or even
19 by a bicameral, doesn't say anything on the
20 subject, and with the amount of work that
21 you've put into it, there had to be a reason.
22 There couldn't be an omission. I wanted to
23 know what the reason was.
24 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I
25 think the intent is the same which is that
1457
1 what we're saying here is that the leaders
2 really are going to work out that process.
3 Now, that was the same
4 discussion that we had on the previous bill.
5 Maybe, you know, as I had indicated again and
6 again, the bicameral nature that is in our
7 Constitution, how we should resolve disputes
8 between the -- between the houses in a
9 bicameral nature, not a unicameral nature.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
11 Senator Paterson.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
13 President, if Senator LaValle would continue
14 to yield.
15 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
17 Senator yield? Senator continues to yield.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
19 hope you'll understand how I'm actually
20 phrasing this. We may actually disagree on
21 some of the merit of this, but here I'm just
22 talking about some of the technical
23 construction of the bill.
24 It would seem to me that if you
25 were trying to alleviate a process, if you
1458
1 were trying to change something that already
2 existed, that you have would have listed
3 specifically in both pieces of legislation
4 what you were trying to do. This was an issue
5 that I took up last week with another
6 colleague on a similar bill that, in order to
7 make something clear, we are pretty much
8 compelled to put our true interest in writing
9 so in this current bill, where you say that
10 the Legislature will elect the Board of
11 Regents, you don't indicate which legislature
12 it is. You've indicated it in the previous
13 bill, but I would suggest that if somebody
14 didn't like the process that you now have
15 passed two laws, one almost seems to affirm
16 the law that's previously existing, the other
17 in your previous bill demonstrates that you
18 have a new idea as to how to resolve this
19 problem.
20 I just don't think that this
21 bill should go into law having any ambiguity
22 even if we disagree on what the final intent
23 of your legislation is.
24 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I
25 think it's consistent with the Constitution,
1459
1 constitutional provisions on the selection of
2 the Board of Regents, that you know, allows
3 the Legislature, which is what we're doing
4 here. I chose not to spell out as the
5 existing 202 of the Education Law does, by
6 establishing a specific procedure that talks
7 about a concurrent resolution being passed on
8 the first Tuesday in March. If no such
9 agreement is reached, then it is done by joint
10 -- by a joint session.
11 I have removed that because I
12 said it is violative of constitutional
13 provisions calling for a bicameral
14 legislature, and yes, I have not spelled it
15 out in detail. I have said that is for the
16 Legislature to work out.
17 Now, some may feel that by
18 having the Legislature work out a methodology
19 between the Speaker and the Majority Leader,
20 that that could move us in a direction of
21 deadlock, but at least it is providing a
22 system that is consistent with our
23 constitutional underpinnings.
24 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
25 Mr. President, I just have one last question
1460
1 for Senator LaValle, if he is willing to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
4 Senator LaValle, do you yield for another
5 question?
6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm
10 almost slightly confused by the discrepancy in
11 the two bills. I guess my question to you is
12 conceivably if a Speaker and a Majority Leader
13 down the road decided that they liked the
14 unicameral voting system for the Board of
15 Regents, would they be able to conduct one
16 after this bill passed? In other words, is
17 this bill of sufficient strength to actually
18 overrule the process that you are loathe to
19 accept at this time by the passage of this -
20 of this law?
21 You can say that you -- that
22 it's consistent with what has been
23 constitutional, but tradition and practice for
24 a number of years have created the situation
25 and also part of Section 202 of the Education
1461
1 Law have created the scenario where we have
2 had this method of choosing Regents.
3 So my -- my question simply to
4 you is, does this particular bill that you
5 pass cure this condition, other than the fact
6 that you have an interpretation of how the
7 Constitution should be read at this time? Have
8 you put anything in this bill because when you
9 say the Legislature, I don't see how that's
10 inconsistent with how it's being done right
11 now, and I'm not talking about constitution
12 ality. I'm talking about the law as it will be
13 passed when we leave this chamber today.
14 SENATOR LAVALLE: I would just
15 continue, Senator, giving you the same answer
16 I've given you before, that leaders would have
17 under this legislation time to work out what
18 is a legal and constitutional system to select
19 Regents and, you know, my own feeling and from
20 the philosophical standpoint and the legal
21 standpoint, is that we have a flawed system
22 and because it has continued, as you have
23 indicated, by custom and tradition doesn't
24 necessarily make it legally right.
25 I mean they'll -- those are
1462
1 questions for courts to resolve, certainly not
2 your aye on this floor. We might have our own
3 opinions, but it is for the court to resolve
4 the legal appropriateness or the constitution
5 ality of these issues.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: I want to
9 thank Senator LaValle for his gracious
10 responses to my questions. I'd now like to
11 address the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
13 Senator Paterson, on the bill.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: I don't know
15 that I totally agree with everything that
16 Senator LaValle said relating to the process
17 that we've used now, but I understand. I
18 understand that perhaps some time a long time
19 ago, somebody wrote into the law that where
20 there would not be an agreement between the
21 two houses of the Legislature, that perhaps
22 the best way to resolve it was to put
23 everybody in the same room, give everybody one
24 vote and let them choose who the Regents would
25 be, and I cannot rule out a possibility that
1463
1 whoever wrote that law knew at the time that
2 they wrote the law that they had the votes to
3 pass on whichever Regent they would presume
4 should accede to the board.
5 What I am -- what I'm
6 questioning with the passage of this
7 legislation is its clarity because even if
8 there is custom and tradition that Senator
9 LaValle was talking about, if I were trying to
10 remove it, I would make it crystal clear since
11 this has obviously been an ambiguous point
12 with the Legislature, regardless of party
13 affiliation and that it has continued for a
14 number of years.
15 So, therefore, if Senator
16 LaValle was seeking equity, I think that
17 perhaps there is some fairness to the argument
18 that both houses really stand pretty much on
19 their own under the Constitution as it stands
20 now.
21 What is very troubling about
22 this legislation, both bills really, is that
23 the Board of Regents as it would be
24 constructed, would start with an appointment
25 of its chair and its vice-chair coming from
1464
1 the Governor's office, which I think probably
2 diminishes from the perception that fairnesses
3 are trying to be established through the
4 passage of this bill.
5 This clearly would give
6 preference to a party regardless of who the
7 governor is, in effecting that actual choice
8 and in boards of similar nature it has always
9 been far more constitutional to let the
10 members of the board elect their chair rather
11 than to have a preset order established from
12 the outset of the -- of the process.
13 And so, for that reason, I
14 would encourage a negative vote on this bill,
15 and it's really unfortunate, because the
16 greater information that it provides and the
17 changes that it produces, I think will enure
18 to the benefit of the selection process,
19 particularly delaying the vote two months
20 until after our constitutionally mandated
21 budgetary period has elapsed.
22 But unfortunately, it -- the
23 lack of clarity on some of the issues and
24 then, in my opinion, a clear preference to
25 whichever party would control the Executive
1465
1 Mansion at the time of any Regents vote,
2 causes me to have to vote against the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
4 Senator Cook.
5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I
6 think just a word of comment on one of the
7 issues that's been raised which is the
8 bicameral nature of the Legislature, and the
9 language that's currently in the statute.
10 I think we should remember that
11 that language predates a certain court
12 decision. That court decision was the one
13 that made the Senate really a less than an
14 equal partner in the process of selection of
15 the Regent, and that is in the one man-one
16 vote decisions relating to the apportionment
17 of the Legislature in 1964, the courts clearly
18 held that legislative districts in both houses
19 had to be according to the population of the
20 districts in the voting of political
21 committees for the endorsements of
22 candidates.
23 The courts have held that you
24 don't vote in each committee person but rather
25 that each committee person casts a number of
1466
1 votes that are equal to the number of persons
2 who voted in that particular election district
3 in the previous election, and yet when they
4 came to the decision about the Senate voting
5 for Regent, they made the determination that,
6 in fact, we should have the same number of
7 votes as other people who represent 125,000
8 people, even though we only represent 300,000
9 people in this house.
10 So I think that the -- the
11 point that Senator LaValle is making, that
12 this is an attempt to restore the bicameral
13 nature of the Regent selection process is
14 right on the point and that it was not, in
15 fact, the previous legislation that created
16 the problem but rather the court
17 interpretation some years ago, I think about
18 20 years ago now, of how the voting was to
19 take place that really created the problem.
20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
22 Senator Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, a
24 number of years ago -- and you'll see how many
25 years ago in a minute -- one of our very
1467
1 distinguished colleagues by the name of John
2 D. Calandra, who I loved very much, offered a
3 bill that would redo the way Civil Court
4 districts were to be done in the city of New
5 York and, as I looked at the bill, I could
6 predict who was going to vote which way and my
7 distinguished predecessor of blessed memory in
8 this particular seat, Senator Galiber, I knew
9 would vote for the bill and I knew that there
10 was another member, for example, in the Bronx
11 who was going to vote against it, and somebody
12 said, Well, how do you know? Well, you didn't
13 have to be a mind reader. Senator Galiber's
14 district gained some judges and some other
15 district lost some judges. It wasn't difficult
16 to figure out how people were going to vote.
17 We have a new member in this
18 house, Assemblyman Balboni, and I'm sure if
19 you want to spend some nice time with a very
20 fine young gentleman, have a cup of coffee
21 with him and ask him questions to which you
22 are going to know the answers, whether he
23 enjoys being in the majority here more than he
24 enjoys being in the minority in the other
25 house, and, Senator Cook, that's what this is
1468
1 really all about and everybody knows it.
2 So why do we try to dignify it?
3 Why do we try to dignify it? The fact of the
4 matter is that ever since the court decision
5 you're talking about and before that court
6 decision, the members of the majority in this
7 house hated -- they hated -- as a matter of
8 fact, I don't want to ruin anybody's day but
9 one of the reasons I'm going to enjoy tomorrow
10 is because I know that there are people on
11 your side of the aisle who hate it. It adds
12 to my joy, and not only I enjoy it for the
13 positive, I enjoy it for the negative,
14 suddenly something that's giving me a delight
15 in doing the things that the statute says I
16 should do, electing a good Regent, but the
17 fact that you guys hate it makes it that much
18 more wonderful for me.
19 Matter of fact, if you
20 acknowledged that there was an Assembly
21 resolution that passed, if you acknowledged
22 that this is the process and what the heck,
23 it's one for the Gipper, I think that would
24 take away some of my enjoyment, so I don't
25 want anybody in the Majority to think that
1469
1 these exercises that you're going through
2 today are causing us pain. They're not. It's
3 just -- it just amplifies the joy we will have
4 tomorrow.
5 Now, this bill, I'm going to
6 vote against because it really does nothing
7 more than create chaos. Now, if I was going
8 to lose a vote, I guess I'd rather have chaos
9 than a straight-out law. That's more fun.
10 Senator LaValle, you are
11 absolutely right that it ought to be May.
12 Nobody is arguing with you there. It really
13 ought to be May, and it -- you may even be
14 right in terms of narrowing the process and
15 it's a shame, unfortunately, as Senator
16 Leichter said in a very, very distinguished
17 manner earlier, that it comes up in the vein
18 of the politics of today and tomorrow, but I
19 would tell you that in voting no today, and in
20 seeing how the Majority in this house have
21 spent the whole day squirming and arguing to
22 get out of what is the inevitability of
23 tomorrow, I can tell you on behalf of myself
24 and probably Senator Leichter and many others,
25 you've done nothing more than amplify our joy
1470
1 tomorrow.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
5 Senator Dollinger.
6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I understand Senator LaValle's
9 attempt to give new meaning to bicameralism,
10 to restore bicameralism in this state, with
11 respect to the Board of Regents. I agree with
12 Senator Gold's comments about why it's being
13 done, but let me offer a slightly different
14 perspective.
15 What I would suggest here that
16 the anachronism is not the way we elect the
17 Board of Regents. The anachronism is that
18 we're still wedded to the issue of
19 bicameralism. In the wake, as Senator Cook
20 pointed out -- in the wake of one man-one vote
21 as Senator Cook pointed out, we now have two
22 people in favor of it. We have a bicameral
23 head -- bicameral had no meaning, none -- and
24 if bicameralism was designed to protect the
25 integrity of states and protect small states
1471
1 from big states, the Senate in the state of
2 New York represents no one with any different
3 interest than the members of the Assembly, and
4 I would suggest to you that what we're really
5 doing by preserving, as you point out, in this
6 bill the concept of bicameralism, we're giving
7 continued life to a political dinosaur that
8 causes political confusion and is a recipe for
9 political deadlock.
10 If we really wanted to do the
11 radical thing, we wouldn't change the way we
12 elect the Board of Regents. We'd give these
13 people one person one vote per representative
14 and we'd abolish the true anachronism
15 bicameralism.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
17 the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
19 This act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the
23 roll. )
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
25 the results.
1472
1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
2 in the negative on Calendar Number 63 are
3 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,
4 Leichter, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato,
5 Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, Seabrook, Smith,
6 Stachowski and Stavisky. Ayes 41, nays 15.
7 Also Senator Gold. Ayes 40, nays 16.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
9 bill is passed.
10 Senator Paterson.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
12 President, with unanimous consent, I'd like to
13 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
14 62, the bill that immediately preceded this
15 one.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
17 Without objection, Senator Paterson will be
18 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
19 62.
20 The Secretary will resume the
21 reading of the controversial calendar.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 225, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 454, an
24 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
25 validity of a license to possess or carry a
1473
1 pistol within the state.
2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Did he ask
4 for an explanation?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes,
6 Senator Holland. Yes, an explanation has been
7 requested.
8 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm sure
9 Senator Gold and every other member of this
10 house is well aware of this bill that has been
11 on the floor for many years. It is a bill
12 about fairness and equality. It is a bill
13 that allows people who have a pistol license
14 to carry it statewide; that is, as is
15 currently the law, anybody who is issued a
16 pistol license in any of the counties other
17 than the city of New York cannot carry it in
18 the city of New York, but if they're issued a
19 pistol license in the city of New York, they
20 can carry it in any other county. It is
21 simply a question of fairness and equality and
22 whether people who are issued pistol licenses
23 can carry it statewide.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
25 Senator Paterson.
1474
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator -
2 Mr. President, on the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
4 Senator Paterson, on the bill.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: The mayor of
6 the city of New York is opposed to the bill as
7 are the two mayors who have preceded him.
8 Their legislation, and their efforts over the
9 past 10 years, has reduced crime significantly
10 in that area and one of the major efforts
11 that's been made, one of the ones that former
12 Mayor Koch used to do public service
13 announcements on, one that was incorporated
14 into the Safe Streets-Safe City of Mayor
15 Dinkins and one which is a priority of Mayor
16 Giuliani, who is a Republican mayor of the
17 city of New York, is the strictest adherence
18 to strong gun laws, and the desire to control
19 the issue, and to control the territory as
20 much as possible.
21 Now, if this legislation was
22 one that other counties in the -- in the state
23 choose to adhere to, then we're certainly
24 pleased with that, but the message we're
25 really sending from New York City, that of the
1475
1 mayor, that which is bipartisan and coming
2 from the police department, all the police
3 commissioners in the last 15 years, and also
4 all of the appropriate law enforcement
5 authorities in New York City, is we don't want
6 anyone coming into New York City with guns
7 that are not licensed by the city.
8 We have a stronger protection
9 system in the City. We feel we have a large
10 population to try to control and at times a
11 great amount of difficulty doing that. We've
12 been successful. This would, in no way,
13 assist our effort. We feel that the
14 cooperation of those outside the city who are
15 licensed to practice guns, as are your
16 neighbors in the state, would be important to
17 us, and we wish that they would respect the
18 way we, Republicans and Democrats, law
19 enforcement personnel and just private
20 citizens feel in the City and not pass this
21 legislation and let New York City exercise in
22 those five counties the option to have tougher
23 gun laws.
24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
25 President.
1476
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Senator Leichter.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
4 President, I first want to -- I don't know,
5 thank you, Senator Holland, for bringing up
6 the bill year after year and Gene Levy, a
7 pleasant memory used to bring it before, but
8 as we look at the calendar, I mean, we have
9 all these retreads coming up. I was just
10 thinking, on a Monday afternoon, if I didn't
11 have all the chestnuts that get voted on every
12 year, never go anywhere -- I don't know -
13 what would I do, Monday afternoon or Tuesday
14 afternoon or Wednesday afternoon? Maybe, my
15 goodness, the Senate might even address issues
16 like school overcrowding or maybe we'd hold
17 hearings on the fact why this state is doing
18 so poorly in job growth compared to other
19 states. Maybe we would address issues of
20 court consolidation instead of waiting at the
21 last minute. Maybe we would have some
22 hearings that would move the budget process
23 along, but fortunately our days can be filled
24 with voting on bills that have been rejected
25 time and time and time again and we can go
1477
1 over the same old tired debate.
2 So I don't want to be accused
3 of not playing along and just sitting here,
4 Senator Holland, and I'm making the arguments
5 I used to make to you over the years. Well,
6 Senator, you bring up the bill, you'll hear
7 the arguments. If you rise to ask a question,
8 I'll certainly yield.
9 SENATOR HOLLAND: I would
10 prefer to make my own statement after you've
11 finished.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Well,
13 I don't know. You're standing a little early
14 because I have a good hour of comments on this
15 bill at least. No, you can keep standing.
16 Let me just say, I just want to
17 point out that it also amuses me that somebody
18 like Senator Holland and the Republican
19 Majority, that I think more so maybe than this
20 side of the aisle, really feels that there's
21 strong differences within particular sections
22 of the state. It's a big state. We got 17
23 million people or maybe 18 million people and
24 there's obviously a difference between Montauk
25 and Niagara. There's a difference between New
1478
1 City and New York City, and the fact of the
2 matter is that you need sometimes different
3 laws, different regulations. Not every part
4 of the state has the same laws relating to
5 speed limits. It doesn't apply. Some places
6 you can go faster and some you can go slower.
7 You have to take into account the nature of
8 the community, the density, its traditions,
9 its history, and so on.
10 So mayors of this city and as
11 was pointed out by Senator Paterson, both
12 Democrat and Republicans, police
13 commissioners, police commissioners who have
14 received national acclaim have come to this
15 Legislature and said, Look, a situation in New
16 York requires that we more carefully screen
17 people who want pistol permits or gun
18 permits. We are different than -- I come from
19 a community where I have a summer home, a
20 wonderful community represented, as you all
21 know, by Senator Stafford and very ably so, I
22 may say, but in Westport, New York, it's a
23 different thing about getting a pistol license
24 than in the city of New York. We have a
25 particular problem, particular concerns and
1479
1 those concerns ought to be adhered to as we
2 ought to pay attention, Senator Holland -- and
3 I believe we do -- to particular requirements
4 of New City and your community, and we also do
5 this for the safety of people who come to New
6 York City carrying guns.
7 It always used to scare me -
8 and I pointed that out to my dear colleague,
9 late colleague, Gene Levy, and say how his
10 wife came to Kennedy Airport once and she
11 wanted to carry a gun. It's dangerous to
12 carry a gun in New York City. It doesn't
13 protect you. It doesn't help you to carry a
14 gun in New York City.
15 So all we say is that we ought
16 to have a right to deal with our own peculiar
17 problems, and I may say starting with the
18 administration of Mayor Dinkins, crime has
19 declined in the city of New York. Homicide
20 has declined in the city of New York. It's
21 been carried on in the administration of Mayor
22 Giuliani. We ought to be able to continue to
23 do those things that we feel are best for the
24 interests of the people of New York City and
25 those people who come into New York City,
1480
1 Senator Holland.
2 So you want to bring this bill
3 up every year and give us something to do on
4 Monday afternoon rather than maybe address
5 some pressing issues and something that the
6 people of the state of New York really need,
7 you go ahead and do it, but I'll tell you,
8 it's an ill-thought-out bill and that's why it
9 hasn't passed into law and never will pass
10 into law, but you keep on filling up our
11 afternoons with retreads.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
13 Senator Holland.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Never say
15 never, Senator. It will pass. It will pass
16 and you may not like it, but most of the
17 people in the state of New York do like the
18 bill and want the bill to pass and they
19 believe this should be one state instead of
20 two states.
21 New York City does have a
22 problem with guns. There's no question about
23 it, but it's not from the licensees. It's
24 illegal weapons that are causing the problem
25 in New York City. Anybody that has a license
1481
1 is checked out by fingerprints with the FBI,
2 BCI. You know that as well as I do and there
3 are no problems caused by the people who carry
4 the weapons.
5 Most of the people other than
6 you and some of the people on your side do
7 want this bill passed, and I will continue to
8 bring it up year after year, and I urge you
9 never to say never.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
13 This act shall take effect on the first day of
14 November.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the
18 roll.)
19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
20 President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
22 Senator Montgomery.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would
24 like my name called to explain my vote,
25 please.
1482
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Senator Montgomery, to explain her vote.
3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 I'm going to once again vote
6 against this legislation. Number one, it
7 really will override the right of New York
8 City to have its home rule in this regard and,
9 number two, it really is legislation that will
10 ultimately result in more weapons coming into
11 New York City at a time when we are
12 desperately trying to deal with the already
13 crisis as it relates to guns and their
14 relationship to crime.
15 So we've been very fortunate in
16 the last few years that crime is subsiding.
17 We're beginning to feel a sense of security
18 and safety on our streets and in our parks and
19 in our public places, and that is to a large
20 extent because we have been quite aggressive
21 in this city to remove guns from the street
22 and so Senator Holland is really doing us a
23 gross disservice by saying that he now wants
24 the right to have citizens throughout the
25 state bring their weapons into the City and
1483
1 override the law that we have and the mayor's
2 wish to contain that.
3 So I'm voting no, and I
4 certainly hope that every New York City
5 legislator will vote no on this in particular,
6 as well as everybody in the state.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
9 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the
10 negative. Resume -
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
12 President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: I'm
14 sorry. Senator Dollinger.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to
16 explain my vote on the bill. This is the vote
17 on Senator Holland's bill, is that correct,
18 because I was out of the chamber.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: That's
20 correct, Senator.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The memo
22 from the city of New York says "This bill is
23 one of several before the Legislature which,
24 if enacted, will increase the number of
25 firearms on the streets of New York City." Is
1484
1 there anyone in this chamber who thinks that's
2 a good thing? No.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
4 Senator Dollinger will be recorded in the
5 negative. Announce the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
7 in the negative on Calendar Number 225 are
8 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,
9 Gentile, Gold, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman,
10 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Onorato,
11 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Santiago,
12 Seabrook, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 36, nays
13 20.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
15 bill is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 226, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 502, an
18 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
19 administrative provisions relating to the
20 issuance of firearms licenses.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
24 This act shall take effect immediately.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
1485
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Senator Johnson, an explanation has been
3 requested.
4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr.
5 President, this bill amends Section 400 of the
6 Penal Law which sets forth pistol licensing
7 standards and in that law it says there are
8 two type of licenses to be issued, either
9 carry or premises, business or home premises
10 or carry.
11 Many jurisdictions throughout
12 this state are issuing their own variety of
13 licenses such as hunting or target practice,
14 security guard, carrying money in your
15 business, and so forth, but it only prescribes
16 in the law two kinds, either carry or
17 premises.
18 So the variety is only exceeded
19 by the ingenuity of the issuing officer and
20 what we're saying here is the law says you
21 issue one type or the other and my Section 2
22 (a) which I'm adding says "The licensing
23 officers shall not impose any restrictions,
24 limitations or requirements on licenses or
25 licensees other than those restrictions,
1486
1 limitations or requirements set forth in this
2 section."
3 What we're saying is the
4 issuing officer shall obey the law when
5 issuing pistol licenses.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
9 President, I'm opposed to this piece of
10 legislation as I was opposed to the previous
11 one that we've debated.
12 If we were even going to
13 consider this kind of legislation, my problem
14 with this specifically is that it turns every
15 license, every gun license in this state into
16 a carry license. So however the -- limited
17 the license may have been intended at the time
18 it was granted, it now means that the rest of
19 the citizens around this state, and
20 particularly in New York City where the gun
21 laws are much tougher, that the license would
22 have to be upheld and honored, and we again
23 just argue that because of different
24 conditions, because of different
25 circumstances, different counties around the
1487
1 states have different problems, I repeat again
2 there's unanimity. Our current mayor is
3 strongly opposed, as is the police
4 commissioner, to the passage of this kind of
5 legislation and as the City points out in its
6 own memo with the significant reduction in
7 crime, this type of legislation coming at this
8 time does not certainly reward any kind of
9 effort we've made not only to reduce crime but
10 to restrict guns.
11 Carried out to perhaps its
12 furthest conclusion, it would mean that people
13 could carry guns in churches and day care
14 centers or wherever they deemed it was
15 appropriate if they had a license. These are
16 some of the restrictions that New York City
17 licensing authorities observe when they make a
18 determination and it's -- I would think that
19 if someone has to use the kind of ingenuity to
20 have security guards or people who are
21 traveling with extremely sensitive merchandise
22 have to have guns, let them use the ingenuity
23 to secure the licenses through the appropriate
24 authorities rather than to the value of making
25 it easy for everybody at a time when guns are
1488
1 particularly important.
2 I don't have any problem with
3 this legislation being introduced and
4 reintroduced because I understand the sponsor
5 sees that it's important and so, although this
6 is almost like breaking a family tradition, I
7 disagree to some extent with Senator Leichter
8 because I've never had anything to do on
9 Monday afternoons. So I'm happy to come here
10 and talk about this every year, but the
11 reality is that, although Senator Johnson and
12 Senator Holland believe in this legislation,
13 I'm glad that they keep reintroducing it to
14 further their integrity and to further mine, I
15 have to vote against it.
16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr.
17 President. Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
19 Senator Johnson.
20 SENATOR JOHNSON: I think
21 perhaps I may have misled Senator Paterson. I
22 certainly wouldn't want to do that. This
23 doesn't require everyone who wants a license
24 to get one. They still have the
25 qualifications. They have good moral
1489
1 character, not convicted of a felony or
2 serious offense, no mental illness, and so on,
3 and so on. So there's still qualifications.
4 It would not make every license a full carry.
5 It would either be to possess by a household
6 in his dwelling or to carry. They can issue
7 either type.
8 I dare say many people in New
9 York City would feel a lot safer if they could
10 possess a weapon in their household against
11 shove-in robberies, rapists and all sort of
12 burglars who come in the night. So I think
13 New York City would probably be safer if this
14 passed.
15 As a matter of fact, they found
16 out when 31 states so far have put a right to
17 carry law out there and every one of good
18 moral character without any other
19 qualification to carry them have found
20 dramatic decreases in crime in 31 states, and
21 if that had been countrywide, there would have
22 been 1500 fewer murders, 4,000 fewer rapes,
23 60,000 fewer assaults every year if other
24 states had that law, and I'm not pushing for
25 that full carry for everyone.
1490
1 All I'm saying is obey the
2 present law and the people who desire to have
3 weapons feel they need them would be safer and
4 our community would have fewer crimes to deal
5 with.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
9 This act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the
13 roll.)
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
15 President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
17 Senator Dollinger.
18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my
19 bill. I don't live in the City -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
21 Senator Dollinger, to explain his vote.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I don't
23 live in the city of New York as many of my
24 colleagues on this side of the aisle do, and I
25 understand that Senator Johnson doesn't live
1491
1 in the city of New York, but I'm astounded
2 that he thinks New York would be a safer place
3 if this bill were passed and someone who calls
4 himself the mayor of the city of New York
5 submits a memo that says this will simply
6 create a public safety hazard, a mayor in the
7 city of New York and a City Council who say
8 the solution to too many guns in New York City
9 is not to add guns.
10 I would suggest, Senator
11 Johnson, if you think the city of New York
12 would be a safer place, you think this is the
13 right thing to do, move to the city of New
14 York, take this idea to the city of New York,
15 run for the City Council, get elected, get
16 elected mayor and then you can decide by the
17 people -- power given to you by the people
18 what the safe thing is for the city of New
19 York.
20 The mayor that lives there
21 currently who is elected by the people says
22 this is a bad idea. I agree with him.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
24 Senator Dollinger will be recorded in the
25 negative. Announce the results.
1492
1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
2 in the negative on Calendar Number 226 are
3 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,
4 Gentile, Gold, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman,
5 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula,
6 Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson,
7 Santiago, Seabrook, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes
8 35, nays 21.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
10 bill is passed.
11 Senator Nanula.
12 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 I would like to request
15 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
16 negative on Calendar Number 225.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
19 Without objection, Senator Nanula will be
20 recorded in the negative on Calendar 225.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 280, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 306, an
23 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
24 relation to limiting plea bargaining for
25 sexual offenders.
1493
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section -
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
5 Senator Leichter.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm just
7 voting.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay.
9 Read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
11 This act shall take effect on the first day of
12 November.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the
16 roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
18 Senator Gold.
19 SENATOR GOLD: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays
21 1, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
23 bill is passed.
24 Senator Marcellino.
25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
1494
1 President, may we return to motions and
2 resolutions for a moment?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes.
4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
5 President, on behalf of Senator Alesi, on page
6 number 5, I offer the following amendments to
7 Calendar Number 40, Senate Print Number 5942,
8 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
9 Third Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
11 amendments are received. So ordered.
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: And on
13 behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, on page number
14 19, I offer the following amendments to
15 Calendar Number 323, Senate Print Number 3899,
16 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
17 Third Reading Calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
19 amendments are received and so ordered.
20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
21 sir.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
23 Senator Paterson.
24 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
25 President, now that we are on motions and
1495
1 resolutions, I think it would be appropriate
2 if I would ask right now if we ever did
3 receive the message from the Assembly about
4 the joint session of the Legislature on
5 Tuesday, March 10th.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
7 Senator Paterson.
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Resolution
9 1660.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
11 Senator Paterson, I'm advised that a copy of
12 that resolution has been received.
13 Can we return now to the
14 reading of the controversial -
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
16 there being no further business -
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
18 President.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: -- I move we
20 adjourn until March 10th, at 3:00 p.m.
21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
22 President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
24 There's a motion to adjourn.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: There's a
1496
1 motion to adjourn before the house.
2 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr.
3 President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion
5 to adjourn takes precedence on -
6 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr.
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
9 Senator Gentile, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR GENTILE: I would just
11 ask for unanimous consent, Mr. President, to
12 be recorded in the affirmative on Calendar
13 Number 62.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
15 Without objection. On motion, the Senate
16 stands adjourned.
17 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, no.
18 There's a motion made. Let's have a vote on
19 it.
20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Slow roll
21 call.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
23 motion is to adjourn. The motion is before
24 the house. All in favor signify by saying
25 aye.
1497
1 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call,
2 Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
4 motion before the house is to adjourn.
5 The Secretary will call the
6 roll.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate.
8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
10 Senator Alesi.
11 SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator
13 Balboni.
14 (There was no response.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Breslin.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Bruno.
19 (Affirmative indication.)
20 Senator Connor.
21 (Negative indication.)
22 Senator Cook.
23 SENATOR COOK: Yes.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator
25 DeFrancisco.
1498
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Dollinger.
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator
8 Gentile.
9 SENATOR GENTILE: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold.
11 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 To explain my vote.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
15 Senator Gold, to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR GOLD: It's amazing how
17 the lack of knowledge scares people more than
18 the events or the circumstances to which the
19 knowledge refers to.
20 My understanding, Mr.
21 President, is that all Senator Padavan -
22 Paterson, I'm sorry -- was going to do was to
23 ask that the resolution be read since that's
24 the purpose of sending a message from one
25 house to the other, was to inform it of
1499
1 activity, and I think it's amazing that the
2 Acting Majority Leader had to quake to the
3 point of running to have a motion to adjourn
4 lest the Assembly resolution be read, which
5 it's already been done and people hear what it
6 was about, because the only language in that
7 resolution was to inform this house that the
8 Assembly did, in fact, pass a resolution
9 calling for the joint session of the
10 Legislature in conformity with the Education
11 Law, Section 202, and I think it's amazing
12 that members of the Majority in this house
13 shiver and shake at the concept of having to
14 abide by a section of law which only became
15 law because this house, by a majority vote,
16 along with the Assembly and the Governor made
17 that a matter of law.
18 So, Senator Paterson, you don't
19 know how you create the element of fear on the
20 other side of the aisle just by the thought of
21 what your words may be. You are, indeed, a
22 powerful individual and you have my great
23 respect that you can make them shake so.
24 I vote in the negative.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
1500
1 Senator Gold in the negative. Resume the
2 reading of the roll.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4 Gonzalez.
5 (There was no response.)
6 Senator Goodman.
7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon.
9 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Hoffmann.
12 (There was no response.)
13 Senator Holland.
14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Johnson.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger.
19 SENATOR KRUGER: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
21 SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Lachman.
24 SENATOR LACHMAN: No.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
1501
1 SENATOR LACK: Aye.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator
5 LaValle.
6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator
8 Leibell.
9 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Leichter.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: No.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator
16 Maltese.
17 (There was no response.)
18 Senator Marcellino.
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
21 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Markowitz.
24 (There was no response.)
25 Senator Maziarz.
1502
1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier.
3 SENATOR MEIER: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez,
5 excused.
6 Senator Montgomery.
7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula.
9 SENATOR NANULA: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Nozzolio.
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Onorato.
15 SENATOR ONORATO: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Oppenheimer.
18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator
20 Padavan, excused.
21 Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
23 President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
25 Senator Paterson.
1503
1 SENATOR PATERSON: I really
2 think in the future we should try to conform
3 to some kind of process.
4 Other than that, I would just
5 like you to know that I haven't had so much
6 fun since January 12th, 1969 when the New York
7 Jets defeated the Baltimore Colts by a score
8 of 16 to 7.
9 I vote no, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
11 Senator Paterson votes no. Continue the roll
12 call.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Present.
15 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
17 SENATOR RATH: Aye.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rosado.
19 (Negative indication.)
20 Senator Saland.
21 SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Sampson.
24 (There was no response.)
25 Senator Santiago.
1504
1 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Seabrook.
4 SENATOR SEABROOK: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Seward.
7 (There was no response.)
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
11 SENATOR SMITH: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
13 SENATOR SPANO: Aye.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Stachowski.
16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Stafford.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator
21 Stavisky.
22 SENATOR STAVISKY: No.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo.
24 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator
1505
1 Velella.
2 (There was no response.)
3 Senator Volker.
4 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon,
6 excused.
7 Senator Wright.
8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call
10 the absentees.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator
12 Balboni.
13 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Breslin.
16 (There was no response.)
17 Senator Gonzalez.
18 (There was no response.)
19 Senator Hoffmann.
20 (There was no response.)
21 Senator Maltese.
22 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator
24 Markowitz.
25 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No.
1506
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator
2 Sampson.
3 (There was no response.)
4 Senator Seward.
5 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator
7 Velella.
8 (There was no response.)
9 Senator Breslin.
10 SENATOR BRESLIN: No.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33, nays
12 20.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
14 motion passes. The Senate stands adjourned
15 until Tuesday, March 10, at 3:00 p.m.
16 (Whereupon, at 5:16 p.m., the
17 Senate adjourned.)
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25