Regular Session - March 11, 1998
1569
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 March 11, 1998
10 11:07 a.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
18 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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1570
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 find their places, the staff to find their
5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to
6 rise and join with me in saying the Pledge of
7 Allegiance to the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
10 In the absence of clergy, may
11 we bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed.)
14 The reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Tuesday, March 10th. The Senate met pursuant
17 to adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May
18 9th, was read and approved. On motion, the
19 Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
24 Messages from the Assembly.
25 Messages from the Governor.
1571
1 Reports of standing committees.
2 Reports of select committees.
3 Communications and reports from
4 state officers.
5 Motions and resolutions.
6 The Chair recognizes Senator
7 Marcellino.
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 On behalf of Senator Libous,
11 please place a sponsor's star on Calendar
12 Number 332.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
14 Calendar Number 332 is starred at the request
15 of the sponsor.
16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
17 President, on page -- on behalf of Senator
18 Rath, on page number 16 (22), I offer the
19 following amendments to Calendar Number 367,
20 Senate Print Number 4412, and I ask that said
21 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
22 Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 amendments are received and adopted. The bill
25 will retain its place on the Third Reading
1572
1 Calendar.
2 Senator Padavan.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr.
4 President, would you place a sponsor's star on
5 Calendar Number 97, my bill, Print Number
6 3069.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
8 Calendar Number 97 will be starred at the
9 request of the sponsor.
10 Senator Marchi.
11 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
12 there is a special resolution that is at the
13 desk. I ask that it be read, along with the
14 title.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the privileged resolution
17 by Senator Marchi.
18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
19 Marchi, Legislative Resolution 2867,
20 memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to
21 proclaim February 3rd of each year as "Four
22 Chaplains Day" in New York State.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Marchi, do you wish to speak on the bill -- on
25 the resolution?
1573
1 SENATOR MARCHI: Anything we
2 say in this case would be inadequate and most
3 of you -- or all of you are familiar with the
4 fact that the four chaplains, Catholic, Jewish
5 and Protestant joined hands and gave up their
6 place of security when the ship that they were
7 on was being attacked. So they gave up their
8 place of security, four of the mariners who
9 were on the ship.
10 So it struck a very responsive
11 chord across this nation, those of you who
12 were alert and living at that time and it's
13 going to be offered by the American Legion on
14 this weekend. So that's why I moved its
15 adoption at this time.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 question is on the privileged resolution
18 offered by Senator Marchi. All those in favor
19 signify by saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye".)
21 Opposed, nay.
22 (There was no response.)
23 The resolution is adopted.
24 Senator Bruno.
25 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
1574
1 can I ask for a meeting of the Elections
2 Committee immediately in Room 332.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
4 will be an immediate meeting of the Elections
5 Committee, an immediate meeting of the
6 Elections Committee in the Majority Conference
7 Room, Room 332.
8 Senator Bruno, we have one
9 substitution at the desk we would like to take
10 now, if that's okay.
11 SENATOR BRUNO: Okay.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the substitution.
14 THE SECRETARY: On page 21,
15 Senator Velella moves to discharge from the
16 Committee on Cities, Assembly Bill Number
17 3169-A and substitute it for the identical
18 Third Reading Calendar 356.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 substitution is ordered.
21 Senator Bruno, that brings us
22 to the calendar.
23 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
24 can we at this time take up the non
25 controversial calendar.
1575
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the non-controversial
3 calendar.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 180, by member of the Assembly Harenberg,
6 Assembly Print 3920-A, an act to amend the
7 Education Law, in relation to the provision of
8 physical therapy.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
12 This act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the
16 roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 182, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
22 Assembly Print 8546-A, an act in relation to
23 persons who may practice a profession within
24 the state without a license.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
1576
1 Secretary will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
3 This act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the
7 roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Balboni, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr.
11 President, I would ask -- request to be -
12 unanimous consent to be -- to abstain from
13 voting on this particular measure.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
15 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
16 Balboni will be marked as abstaining from the
17 vote.
18 The Secretary will record the
19 negatives and announce the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 234, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5525, an
25 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and
1577
1 others, in relation to the collection of
2 financial obligations.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 9.
6 This act shall take effect on the first day of
7 November.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the
11 roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 263, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6084, an
17 act to amend the New York City Charter.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside,
19 please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
21 bill aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 298, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 243, an
24 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
25 requiring that the State University graduation
1578
1 ceremonies include the Pledge of Allegiance
2 and National Anthem.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it
5 aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 303, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 2558, an
8 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation
9 to co-payment of fees for medical services.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
13 This act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the
17 roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 304, by Senator Nozzolio -
23 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside
24 for the day.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
1579
1 bill aside for the day.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 305, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3408-A -
4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 306, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print -
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside
10 for the day.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
12 bill aside for the day.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 322, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3766,
15 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
16 to permitting the Secretary of State to
17 receive records.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Secretary will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
21 This act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
23 the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the
25 roll.)
1580
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 324, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
6 4129-A, an act authorizing the Commissioner of
7 General Services to transfer and convey
8 certain state lands.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 6.
12 This act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the
16 roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Wright, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
20 I request unanimous consent to be recorded as
21 abstaining from this vote.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
23 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
24 Wright will be denoted as abstaining on the
25 vote.
1581
1 The Secretary will record the
2 negatives and announce the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 333, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1488, an
8 act to amend the Public Health Law, in
9 relation to public notification of health
10 hazards.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
14 This act shall take effect on the 180th day.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the
18 roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
20 the negatives and announce the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays
22 1, Senator Cook recorded in the negative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 bill is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1582
1 340, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4174, an
2 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in
3 relation to requiring any foreign corporation.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
6 bill aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 344, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4266, an
9 act to amend the General Business Law, in
10 relation to false price comparisons.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4.
14 This act shall take effect on the 30th day.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the
18 roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 377, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2848,
24 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
25 relation to establishing the town of
1583
1 Huntington.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
3 is a home rule message at the desk.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it
5 aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 Senator Bruno, that completes
9 the reading of the non-controversial calendar.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr.
11 President.
12 Can we at this time return to
13 motions and resolutions.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
15 return to the order of motions and
16 resolutions.
17 SENATOR BRUNO: And I believe
18 that there is a privileged resolution at the
19 desk by Senator Goodman. I would ask that the
20 title be read and move for its immediate
21 adoption.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Secretary will read the title to the
24 privileged resolution at the desk by Senator
25 Goodman.
1584
1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
2 Goodman, Legislative Resolution 2868, mourning
3 the death of Eric M. Breindel, outstanding
4 journalist and distinguished citizen.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Chair recognizes Senator Goodman on the
7 resolution.
8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr.
9 President, I have asked that we waive the
10 reading of the full resolution, but I would
11 like to say a few special words on behalf of
12 the resolution, if I may.
13 Mr. President, last Saturday
14 the state of New York and the world -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Goodman, excuse me just a minute. There's an
17 awful lot of noise in the chamber. I know
18 it's very difficult for members to hear. I
19 would ask the staff to take their places,
20 members to take their chairs. If you need to
21 have a conversation, let's take it out of the
22 chamber.
23 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr.
24 President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
1585
1 you for the indulgence, Senator Goodman.
2 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr.
3 President, last Saturday the City, state and
4 nation lost a brilliant journalist and a great
5 humanitarian. His name is Eric Breindel and
6 for many years he was the editorial chairman
7 of the New York Post and a man who gained
8 universal respect for the forthrightness of
9 his views, the brilliant lucidity of his
10 editorials and the extreme integrity with
11 which he addressed his work as both a
12 journalist and one in pursuit of justice for
13 the press multitudes.
14 Eric Breindel came from a
15 unique background. Both of his parents were
16 victims of the Holocaust and throughout his
17 life he was especially devoted to both his
18 father and mother and at the funeral which was
19 held in New York on Monday morning, there was
20 an extraordinary outpouring of respect and
21 affection for this unique man.
22 Those who were in attendance at
23 the funeral ranged from the high and mighty to
24 the common people of the state. Governor
25 Pataki was there, Senator D'Amato and Senator
1586
1 Moynihan were there, Mayor Giuliani, Henry
2 Kissinger, a wide range of notable
3 celebrities, as well as those who had watched
4 for years with admiration the work of this
5 unique individual.
6 I knew Eric Breindel personally
7 and counted him as a close friend. We
8 attended one another's social gatherings and
9 he was always genial and exceptionally
10 forthcoming in his generous understanding of
11 human nature.
12 Mr. President, I would like to
13 just comment on one or two of his special
14 qualities as we consider this resolution.
15 Eric Breindel was the senior vice-president of
16 the News Corporation. He had a legion of
17 friends, colleagues, and world leaders
18 remembered him warmly for his honesty, razor
19 sharp intellect, remarkable leadership and
20 uncomplaining determination.
21 Many years ago he was diagnosed
22 with cancer and had painful episodes with
23 which he always -- which he always handled
24 with extraordinary bravery. He also was not
25 afraid ever at any point in his journalistic
1587
1 career to take on tough campaigns on from time
2 to time very unpopular causes.
3 The resolution which we have
4 sponsored today describes him as a champion of
5 the state of Israel and it takes note of the
6 fact that Breindel was known for his vigorous
7 conservative viewpoint and his unique ability
8 to influence political debate in the City and
9 around the world in his finely crafted
10 literate and clear-sighted columns.
11 Mr. President, Eric Breindel
12 brought to his columns a remarkable series of
13 insights, but one of the things for which I
14 always had greatest respect for him was the
15 fact that he had a great sense of
16 communication with people, even those who
17 disagreed strongly with his own very strongly
18 held views.
19 Eric Breindel was a congenial
20 man and a collegial man. He welcomed the
21 chance for debate. He was zestful in his
22 propounding of his own point of view but was a
23 careful listener to those who disagreed and
24 were diametrically opposed to him.
25 I thought one of the unique
1588
1 statements made at his funeral was that of a
2 young woman who had been a friend of his and
3 regarded him as a surrogate father. She
4 happened to be the granddaughter of Katherine
5 Graham, the editor of the Washington Post and
6 she said that she disagreed with virtually
7 every one of his editorial positions and loved
8 him as a father because of his kindness to her
9 and the fact that he would always have a
10 special ability to communicate with young
11 people. She commented that one evening while
12 leaving a party he accidentally knocked the
13 front porch off a house in which the party had
14 been held and his comment was he thought the
15 house looked better that way.
16 He was a man with a keen sense
17 of humor, a great sense of the importance of
18 sticking up for those who were in trouble in
19 life and an enormous dedication to the state
20 of Israel and to the importance of having it
21 provide a shelter and a place for those
22 oppressed always to go in the future and never
23 to permit the Holocaust to be repeated.
24 He viewed with great derision
25 those who sought to revise history, to suggest
1589
1 that the Holocaust never existed and he was an
2 ardent champion of the rights of the Israelis
3 to have a homeland free from the constant
4 threat and the overhang of and the possibility
5 of extinction.
6 And so, Mr. President, as we
7 salute him in his premature death at the age
8 of 42, we realize that a very important notion
9 in life is not -- it is not necessarily the
10 length of time that we are here on earth, but
11 the quality of the hours we spend and the
12 contribution we make during the time that we
13 are active in our pursuit of what we believe
14 in.
15 It is with those notions that I
16 ask the house to unanimously adopt this
17 resolution and ask that it be opened to
18 sponsorship by any members who wish to join in
19 its resolution.
20 Thank you very much, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Chair recognizes Senator Maltese, on the
24 resolution.
25 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr.
1590
1 President, I can add very little to what
2 Senator Goodman has indicated, except I did
3 want to note that Eric was always accessible,
4 always available despite, as Senator Goodman
5 has so aptly described, his academic acumen,
6 his intellectual achievements. He always was
7 ready for advice on a national basis to both
8 conservatives and liberals alike across the
9 nation. He was of invaluable assistance to
10 the Conservative Party, to the conservative
11 movement. He was -- he combined all the
12 intellectual qualities with being, as they
13 say, a regular guy. He is a person that will
14 be sorely missed by this nation and a very
15 severe loss at such a young age as 42.
16 I am proud to join in Senator
17 Goodman's resolution.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Chair recognizes Senator Marchi on the
20 resolution.
21 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
22 I believe Senator Goodman has stated the
23 circumstances and facts that sustain the
24 purpose of this resolution.
25 I can attest personally that
1591
1 two presidents, at least and perhaps others,
2 but President Nixon and President Reagan both
3 shared with me when we were engaged in casual
4 conversation their unbounded estimate and
5 respect that they had at that time of Mr.
6 Breindel and it's -- I think having known him
7 and having heard even casual comments, they
8 were all excellent in their assessment of this
9 exceptional individual.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is
11 there any other Senator wishing to speak on
12 the resolution?
13 (There was no response.)
14 Senator Goodman has opened the
15 resolution for co-sponsorship. Are there
16 members who would like to be listed as
17 co-sponsors? Seeing a multitude -- Senator
18 Bruno, should we put everybody on as a co
19 sponsor, excepting those people who do not
20 wish to be on the resolution as a co-sponsor?
21 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If they
23 would so indicate to the desk, then we'll
24 direct that all members be added as
25 co-sponsors.
1592
1 The question is on the
2 resolution offered by Senator Goodman. All
3 those in favor signify by saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye".)
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The resolution is adopted.
8 Senator Bruno.
9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
10 can we at this time take up the controversial
11 calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the controversial
14 calendar.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 263, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6084, an
17 act to amend the New York City Charter.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 263
21 has been requested by Senator Gold.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 This legislation corrects a
25 bill drafting error in Chapter 569 of a law -
1593
1 a bill we passed which became law last year.
2 The intent of that chapter was to allow nail
3 and mail service of Environmental Control
4 Board violations, the property owners of one-,
5 two- and three-family buildings. It was
6 important in terms of strengthening New York
7 City's ability to deal precisely with a very
8 pervasive problem of illegal occupancies and
9 illegal conversions.
10 Unfortunately due to a drafting
11 error that placed language in Subparagraph A
12 (i) instead of Paragraph A (ii) of Section
13 1404, Chapter 569 unintentionally permits nail
14 and mail service on all residential and
15 commercial property and restricts the use of
16 personal service which was previously allowed
17 for all residential and commercial buildings.
18 Expansion of the nail and mail
19 service, while restricting personal service
20 was never the intention of the city of New
21 York or the state Legislature.
22 This amendment reinstates, by
23 the way, in addition to the other error, the
24 ability of the fire department and the
25 department of buildings to personally serve
1594
1 notice of ECB violations on residential and
2 commercial buildings and restricts nail and
3 mail service to one, two and three residential
4 buildings.
5 Also, some language that
6 inadvertently was deleted relating to
7 additional mailings of notice of violations is
8 rectified with this amendment.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Gold.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Will the
13 gentleman yield to a question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Padavan, do you yield? The Senator yields.
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I
18 certainly am not suggesting that we should by
19 inadvertence eliminate situations of personal
20 service and if it was merely what you're
21 saying, I could start to understand the bill,
22 but I'm looking at the bill. I'm looking at
23 the City's memo and if you could help me, I
24 would be very grateful.
25 On page 2 of your bill, it says
1595
1 "provided, however, that the department of
2 buildings and the fire department may not
3 utilize the procedures set forth in this item
4 to serve a notice of violation relating to
5 commercial premises or residential premises
6 with illegal occupancy of four or more
7 dwellings."
8 So if we left the law alone and
9 did not put this phrase in, I understand they
10 could use the nail and mail on commercial
11 properties also.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct.
13 SENATOR GOLD: But where is it
14 in the bill where it talks about restricting
15 the personal service? I don't see any of that
16 in the bill.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: It was not -
18 what do you mean "restricting"? The original
19 -
20 SENATOR GOLD: In other words
21 -
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Our bill
23 passed. It passed last year. Inadvertently
24 it left that out.
25 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I don't
1596
1 see that. That's what I'm trying to tell
2 you.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: It's there.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator,
5 if you'll let me ask the question.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Sure. I
7 thought I answered it.
8 SENATOR GOLD: There are two
9 concerns I have with the piece of
10 legislation. Number one, assuming that
11 personal service remained available -- and I
12 think it should remain available -- I don't
13 know why we would want to restrict the fire
14 department and the buildings department from
15 using this additional method of making service
16 in commercial situations. Maybe you could
17 explain to me how we are hurting the city of
18 New York rather than helping the city of New
19 York by allowing them that extra method, the
20 nail and mail method, if it deals with
21 commercial violations.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: All right. I
23 understand your question, Senator. I'll try
24 and answer it.
25 First, the problems that the
1597
1 City historically has experienced is not with
2 commercial establishments because the owners
3 of commercial buildings and the managing
4 agents of commercial buildings are readily
5 available. So the need to nail a violation to
6 the front door of a commercial building has
7 never been necessary. There's been no
8 difficulty whatsoever historically as far as
9 the city of New York is able to relate to us
10 and frankly in terms of my own personal
11 experience in doing that.
12 The problem has been with the
13 illegal conversion of one-, two- and three
14 family residential buildings where either we
15 have an absentee owner or access is refused to
16 a building inspector, and so that precipitated
17 the bill we passed last year.
18 So to answer your question
19 directly, it is simply a question of need and
20 in the City's judgment and one with which I
21 concur, the need is with the ones, twos and
22 threes and not with the commercial buildings.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator
24 yield to a question?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
1598
1 Padavan, do you continue to yield?
2 SENATOR GOLD: As I understand
3 it, Senator, the fact that the City has this
4 authority isn't hurting the City. You're
5 saying that they want to eliminate it even
6 though they have it because they don't need
7 it, isn't that correct?
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would you say
9 that again, please?
10 SENATOR GOLD: Surely.
11 Senator, if I understand your comments, the
12 law last year gave the City the authority to
13 nail and mail in not only the ones, twos and
14 threes which you talk about but in all other
15 situations, residential and commercial, and
16 what I believe you just said is even though
17 they've got that authority, they want to give
18 up that authority because they say they don't
19 need it. Is that it?
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: They don't.
21 They never had -- they never did need it.
22 SENATOR GOLD: And if this bill
23 did not pass, they would have the authority
24 and if they don't want to use it, they don't
25 have to use it, isn't that correct?
1599
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, they
2 don't, I guess. In fact, you're right. It
3 just an encumbrance that's unnecessary.
4 SENATOR GOLD: Well, when you
5 say it's an encumbrance, Senator, you're
6 adding more language in here so you're making
7 a bigger law than it was without your
8 language, so it's not encumbrance.
9 The one part that I didn't
10 understand which, in my opinion, would justify
11 your bill, it says that in doing what we did
12 last year, we apparently restricted the use of
13 personal service. Now, that's in the City's
14 memo. It says that the -- unintentionally
15 permits nail and mail and restricts the use of
16 personal service.
17 I don't see anywhere in your
18 bill where we are unrestricting personal
19 service, and I would just like you to point
20 that out to me if you can. The City's memo
21 said that was one of the problems with the
22 amendment last year and, therefore, we're
23 doing the Padavan bill. I don't see in here
24 where we are unrestricting that and maybe I'm
25 just missing that, but if you could show that
1600
1 to me.
2 SENATOR PADAVAN: As far as I
3 know, Senator, the language in the bill that
4 you have, the amendment before us today -
5 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry?
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: The amendment
7 we have before us today restores something
8 that we inadvertently left out last year.
9 SENATOR GOLD: But that's what
10 I'm asking you, Senator. Where is it
11 restored? It's a short bill. If you want to
12 lay it aside a day, that's okay.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't need
14 to lay it aside.
15 SENATOR GOLD: I understand
16 that but, Senator, the City's memo says they
17 had inadvertently have made a restriction on
18 personal service. If they've done that, that
19 concerns me, and I will certainly want to give
20 them unfettered ability to make personal
21 service, but if you take a look at the
22 language that you're adding to this bill and
23 there is some language taken out on page 1,
24 but I just want to understand where -- and
25 there's some two words taken out on page 2 -
1601
1 I would just like to understand where in this
2 bill it cures that particular problem that's
3 set forth in the City's memo.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well,
5 Senator, if you read the bracketed parts on
6 lines 21 to 24, you see where it says that the
7 department of buildings and fire department
8 may not utilize the procedures set forth in
9 this item to serve a notice of violation?
10 SENATOR GOLD: All right. So
11 that's -- so on line 20 -- that's all right.
12 I think you gave me my answer.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think so.
14 SENATOR GOLD: On lines 20 to
15 24, if we did not eliminate that language,
16 they would not be able to -
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah. See
18 the word "not"?
19 SENATOR GOLD: That's what I'm
20 -- let me just ask the question.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. I'm
22 saying -- I'm pointing out to you, the answer
23 to your question, we're taking that out
24 because it said "may not utilize" and that
25 corrects the problem that you referred to.
1602
1 SENATOR GOLD: All right. And
2 where it says "may not utilize", that's the
3 personal service procedure?
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
5 SENATOR GOLD: All right.
6 Thank you for your help.
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: You're
8 welcome.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any
10 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
11 (There was no response.)
12 Hearing none, the Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
15 This act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the
19 roll.)
20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Waldon, to explain your vote.
23 SENATOR WALDON: No. When
24 we're finished with this, I wanted to -
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're
1603
1 on a roll call.
2 SENATOR WALDON: Sorry about
3 that.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
5 Announce the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays
7 1, Senator Sampson recorded in the negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 bill is passed.
10 Senator Waldon, did you wish
11 to -
12 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, Mr.
13 President. I would like the record to reflect
14 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
15 negative on 303. I was out of the chamber on
16 other business.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
18 objection, Senator Waldon will be recorded in
19 the negative on Calendar Number 303.
20 The Secretary will continue to
21 call the controversial calendar, but before
22 that, Senator Bruno.
23 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
24 can I ask for an immediate meeting of the
25 Children and Families Committee in Room 332.
1604
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
2 will be an immediate meeting of the Children
3 and Families Committee in the Majority
4 Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting
5 of the Children and Families Committee in the
6 Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
7 The Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 298, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 243, an
10 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
11 requiring that the State University graduation
12 ceremonies include the Pledge of Allegiance
13 and National Anthem.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
17 This act shall take effect on the 120th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the
21 roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 bill is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1605
1 305, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3408-A,
2 an act to amend the Executive Law and the
3 Penal Law, in relation to payment of a fee by
4 persons sentenced to probation.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
8 This act shall take effect on the first day of
9 November.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the
13 roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 bill is passed.
17 Senator Gold.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
19 may I have unanimous consent to be voted in
20 the negative on Calendar 298.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Gold
23 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
24 Number 298.
25 The Secretary will continue to
1606
1 read.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
3 President, with unanimous consent, might I
4 offer to move to reconsider Calendar 298 which
5 just passed this chamber seconds ago which
6 Senator Leichter had asked me to lay aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 motion is to reconsider the vote by which
9 Calendar Number 298 passed the house.
10 The Secretary will call the
11 roll on reconsideration.
12 (The Secretary called the roll
13 on reconsideration.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 bill is before the house.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: May we have
18 an explanation on that bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 298
21 has been requested by Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr.
23 President, this bill requires the Education
24 Department to promulgate regulations
25 concerning the recitation of the Pledge of
1607
1 Allegiance and performance of the National
2 Anthem at all graduation ceremonies of the
3 State University institutions.
4 Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Paterson, explanation satisfactory?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: It's
8 satisfactory to me, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
12 This act shall take effect on the 120th day.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the
16 roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
18 the negatives.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
20 President, just -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
22 Announce the results.
23 Senator Leichter.
24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
25 President, if I may explain my vote, please.
1608
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Leichter, to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. I
4 don't think anybody who's voting against the
5 bill has any problems with playing the
6 National Anthem or reciting the Pledge of
7 Allegiance at graduation ceremonies or at any
8 other occasion. In fact, we honor the
9 National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance
10 as much as anybody else. We just don't
11 believe it is the role and function of the
12 Legislature to interfere with the functions of
13 the State University to the extent of telling
14 them how to do their graduation. Next we'll
15 see a bill will tell them how to set up the
16 chairs or what robes they should wear, what
17 speeches they ought to make. This is rank
18 interference.
19 As we've suggested in the past,
20 if Senator Johnson wants to do something for
21 the State University -- it needs a lot of
22 help, Senator Johnson, no question about it -
23 I would like to see you work to try to get
24 more funding for the State University, more
25 TAP, deal with the problems of deteriorated
1609
1 campuses but not tell them how to conduct
2 their graduation.
3 I vote in the negative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Leichter will be recorded in the negative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
8 in the negative on Calendar Number 298 are
9 Senators Gold, Leichter, Markowitz, Seabrook,
10 Smith and Waldon. Ayes 47, nays 6.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 340, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4174, an
15 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in
16 relation to requiring any foreign corporation
17 providing gambling.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a
19 second.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Gold, did you have a question of the sponsor?
22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
23 my question was about Calendar Number 305,
24 which I understand that's passed?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That
1610
1 did pass, but let me continue on this bill and
2 if you have any further questions, I'll be
3 happy -
4 SENATOR GOLD: I want to recall
5 305, so can we hold -
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's
7 out of the house, Senator.
8 SENATOR GOLD: It's out of the
9 house.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your
11 motion would be inappropriate at the time
12 because we're already on another bill.
13 SENATOR GOLD: I know, but
14 you're telling me -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's
16 out of the house. It left five minutes ago.
17 SENATOR GOLD: But it's out of
18 the house?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's
20 out of the house.
21 The Secretary will read the
22 last section on Calendar Number 340.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. If
24 Senator Larkin would yield, please.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
1611
1 Larkin, do you yield to a question from
2 Senator Leichter?
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
4 President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
8 took a quick look -- I took a quick look at
9 your bill, Senator, and I just question the
10 constitutionality of what we're doing. Isn't
11 this an area that's preempted by the commerce
12 clause? Are you saying that if a company, a
13 corporation in Nevada, wishes over the
14 Internet to set up a gambling operation or
15 operation that would allow people in New York
16 City or New York State to gamble, that we can
17 force that corporation to incorporate in New
18 York?
19 SENATOR LARKIN: Two things,
20 Senator. Senator Kyl from Arizona, with
21 sponsors on both sides of the aisle in both
22 the House and Senate in Washington, have their
23 own bill to address this.
24 Our bill is very specific. We
25 have, with the attorney generals across the
1612
1 state and our own Attorney General Vacco, who
2 is chairing the attorney generals' cause on
3 this, what we're trying to do is to just get a
4 handle on it because we're getting
5 correspondence every day, Senator, of people
6 who are getting invites to participate in
7 this.
8 Recently there was a -- sent to
9 us some information on this Internet gambling
10 and, lo and behold, going through the numbers
11 that we were told to call, we found out in
12 support of an off-shore in Antigua, the phone
13 call was in Billy Stachowski's area in
14 Buffalo, New York.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator
16 Larkin will continue to yield.
17 SENATOR LARKIN: One other
18 thing I would like to point out. If you'll
19 read the memo, what we're saying is that we're
20 asking them to file it. Technically there's
21 no gambling. It's illegal to gamble in New
22 York State. So the Secretary of State
23 technically cannot accept and validate their
24 application.
25 What we're trying to do is to
1613
1 try to build a base so we can be supportive of
2 our people who maybe are being bilked out of
3 dollars with off-shore companies that they
4 don't know. We're trying to build a
5 database.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if
7 you would be so good as to continue to yield.
8 I don't question the fact that there's a
9 problem. I don't question the intent of our
10 trying to deal with it, but you haven't
11 addressed what is -- my difficulty with this
12 bill is that I believe that the state of New
13 York cannot force a company that's in
14 interstate commerce and that's not located in
15 New York State to incorporate in New York
16 State, and I just wondered whether you had
17 done any research on that issue.
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, we
19 haven't changed the bill from last year,
20 Senator Leichter. We're not -- we're not
21 forcing them. They can stay incorporated
22 wherever they're at. What we're trying to do
23 is to get a handle on this issue which is
24 growing by leaps and bounds. Every bit of
25 information we're told that this is an
1614
1 industry, by next year will be worth $20
2 billion and we're not saying that you must
3 incorporate in New York State. We're very
4 clear.
5 Go ahead.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me,
7 Mr. President. If Senator Larkin would
8 continue to yield.
9 That's exactly what you're
10 saying. You're saying it shall, therefore, be
11 required. You use the word "required". You
12 require that corporation to obtain
13 authorization to do business in this state,
14 and I don't think that constitutionally we can
15 do that.
16 SENATOR LARKIN: Two things:
17 Gambling is illegal in the state of New York,
18 so we didn't change the Constitution. The
19 Secretary of State cannot officially receive
20 your application and get it. What we're
21 saying, he can accept it and he will reject it
22 because there is no gambling and then we will
23 have our database of who you are and where you
24 are.
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would
1615
1 continue to yield. I think we're talking at
2 cross-purposes but then that's not unusual in
3 this chamber. I don't mean between you and
4 me.
5 SENATOR LARKIN: I'm not
6 mean-spirited on this one. You've got to
7 admit that.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
9 it's just that you're not addressing the issue
10 that I'm raising. First of all, you're saying
11 that we're not requiring them to do this, but
12 the language in the bill says they shall be
13 required.
14 Secondly, you say that there's
15 no authorization for the Secretary of State to
16 submit a charter of a corporation that says
17 "our business is gambling" because gambling
18 is illegal in the state. Are you saying that
19 the purpose of your bill is to provide that
20 the Secretary of State may accept the charter
21 of a corporation that wishes to engage in
22 gambling if the gambling is being conducted
23 over the Internet?
24 SENATOR LARKIN: We're saying
25 solely that the Secretary of State, they can
1616
1 file with him, it says. We're asking him to
2 file with the Secretary of State. The
3 Secretary of State does not have any authority
4 to turn around then and certify them as an
5 Internet operator in the state of New York.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. But
7 my question still is, Senator, the very first
8 question I asked, do you have any authority?
9 Have you looked into the constitutional issue
10 and question that this corporation not being
11 located in New York State and being engaged in
12 interstate commerce, whether we have the
13 authority and the legal right under the U.S.
14 Constitution to require that corporation to
15 incorporate in New York State? And your bill
16 says that they must and while I can't say that
17 I am particularly knowledgeable of the
18 commerce clause, not having really looked at
19 it much since my days in law school which was
20 many years ago, but it still seems to me, as I
21 recollect, that the commerce clause gives that
22 authority to Congress, and I don't believe
23 that the state of New York can make a
24 corporation that's not physically located in
25 the state, that's merely transacting business
1617
1 through the Internet to say you must
2 incorporate in the state of New York. I don't
3 want you to do something that's fruitless. I
4 don't want us here as a body to pass
5 legislation, people are going to look at it
6 and say this is laughable. These guys never
7 read the U.S. Constitution. They don't know
8 about the commerce clause.
9 Now, I may be wrong and maybe
10 you've looked into that issue. I hope it's
11 not on the reliance of the Attorney General of
12 this state, but I would trust your research
13 into it, but if you haven't done that
14 research, I raise the question whether this
15 bill is within the purview and authority of
16 the state of New York to enact.
17 SENATOR LARKIN: The only
18 response I have, Franz, is that under the
19 Constitution, gambling is a state's issue.
20 The proposals put forth by Senator Kyl and
21 other members in the House addresses part of
22 the problem that I think you're talking about,
23 but right now we believe having researched
24 this matter, talked to the people at the fed's
25 and talked all around, we believe we're doing
1618
1 the right thing for the people of the state of
2 New York and so far have that authority
3 because gambling is the state's rights. It's
4 our right to regulate gambling and what we're
5 trying to do is get a handle on an issue that
6 is growing by leaps and bounds.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
8 Leichter, are you asking Senator Larkin to
9 continue to yield?
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
11 Senator, I understand what you're saying, but
12 I seriously question whether we have the
13 authority to do this.
14 I yield to Senator Marchi.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Marchi.
17 SENATOR MARCHI: You're stating
18 something that is at least partially
19 established, but I was wondering whether there
20 was more to it in terms of police powers given
21 the nature of the Senator's sponsorship? I
22 believe that there is -- it's not that clear
23 where you're weighing police powers by the
24 state but -
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I
1619
1 still think the police power of the state of
2 New York is significantly limited to the
3 extent that we're dealing with matters in an
4 interstate commerce that have been either
5 exempted -- I don't mean exempted -- have been
6 taken over by the federal government or are
7 reserved to the federal government by the -
8 by the Constitution.
9 I just don't know what we're
10 accomplishing here. I think what we're
11 dealing with is a very serious problem that we
12 have in this state and frankly throughout the
13 nation and throughout the world, that you now
14 have means of communication. How do you
15 control the Internet? How do you control a
16 company, they could be in Macao, they could be
17 in Hong Kong and they're conducting gambling
18 over the Internet? How does New York State
19 which tries to protect its citizens from
20 gambling, how do we control that?
21 The answer is probably that we
22 can't. Let Senator Larkin try, but I think on
23 this one he's being a Don Quixote and tilting
24 at windmills.
25 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator, just
1620
1 one more question. Suppose I wanted to do
2 something like this and I'm not doing too well
3 within the state and so you go to another
4 jurisdiction, would that confer -- well, it's
5 debatable just what it would confer, but under
6 this bill, the application, at least we would
7 know about it.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, maybe
9 the key issue is -- if I could just ask
10 Senator Larkin to yield again for a moment.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Larkin, do you yield to another question from
13 Senator Leichter?
14 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
18 what happens, I'm a company in Hong Kong and
19 I'm conducting this gambling operation through
20 the Internet and somebody comes to me in Hong
21 Kong and says, Hey, you didn't register in New
22 York under the Larkin Law. I say, The Larkin
23 Law? Yeah. Everybody knows the Larkin Law.
24 You got to register in New York State to
25 conduct gambling and I say, The hell with it.
1621
1 Let Larkin come and tell me to my face I got
2 to register. What does New York State do?
3 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator
4 Leichter, I would like to refer this back to
5 something last year when we had in this
6 chamber what's called Megan's Law and you and
7 a few others had objected to it and it went to
8 the courts, the highest courts and the court
9 said that New York State was right. I think
10 that this is a matter -- I believe that that's
11 why
12 we should let this out. We're not forcing
13 anybody. We're not changing the commerce
14 law. We checked with people in Washington and
15 the attorney generals, 50 of them, bipartisan
16 believe that this is the right approach to
17 address the issue. We don't have a handle on
18 something that is growing by leaps and bounds
19 and, Senator, what I would think we should be
20 doing, we should be passing this and then if
21 somebody wants to take it to the courts, let
22 them. I think that we're doing what's right
23 for the people of the state of New York.
24 Thank you.
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
1622
1 just one more question on this. I appreciate
2 your -- the point that you very subtly made:
3 Leichter, you were wrong on Megan's Law. Why
4 should we listen to you?
5 SENATOR LARKIN: I didn't mean
6 it disrespectfully.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: It's
8 perfectly fair.
9 SENATOR LARKIN: You voted for
10 this bill back in 1997.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Perfectly
12 proper, and I will acknowledge after a
13 momentary victory at the District Court level,
14 every court since then has said I was wrong on
15 that issue, but I'm raising the practical
16 problem now. Your law has passed. You've got
17 this company in Hong Kong doing business over
18 the Internet. They thumb their nose at the
19 Larkin Law. What do you do? What does New
20 York State do? You've got this company.
21 They've refused to register and they're still
22 sending their material under the Internet
23 gambling. What do you do?
24 SENATOR LARKIN: Go back to the
25 basic principle -- purpose of what we're
1623
1 trying to do to this bill. We're trying to
2 build a database. We're trying to work with
3 Congress to get them to enact some federal
4 legislation, and I think we're in the right
5 direction, Franz.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Gold, I have several people before you.
10 Senator Dollinger.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 I rise just to offer another
14 insight on Senator Larkin's bill which I
15 supported last year and I'm going to support
16 again.
17 This bill steps us down the
18 road to extending long-arm jurisdiction over
19 these companies. What it requires is the
20 company be authorized to do business in New
21 York.
22 I agree with Senator Leichter,
23 that is, what are we going to do with the
24 company in Hong Kong that's running an
25 international gambling operation through the
1624
1 Internet?
2 The answer is, I don't believe
3 under this bill that we can go to Hong Kong
4 and shut them down and enforce them, but what
5 I think we ought to do -- this is a bill that
6 begins the step down the road to redefining
7 the minimum contacts under our long-arm
8 statute so that if someone is victimized by
9 fraud, they can sue in the New York courts and
10 get jurisdiction.
11 What we'll have to do, and I
12 think the part of the longer road to really
13 achieve long-arm jurisdiction is to go back,
14 look at the long-arm statute under the CPLR
15 and redefine the concept of minimum contacts
16 under International Shoe. That doctrine is
17 flexible enough in my judgment to accommodate
18 the new transmission capabilities that are
19 present that allow Internet gambling and my
20 hope is at some point we'll look at the
21 long-arm statute and say let's extend it
22 further so that if you're an Internet
23 operating company and the transaction, the
24 sale transaction, the deposit of the money,
25 the advancing of the money occurs in New York
1625
1 State, New York State then has jurisdiction,
2 as far as I'm concerned, any place on the
3 planet to bring that person to the New York
4 courts, sue them there, recover a judgment and
5 then go and enforce it in Hong Kong,
6 Pennsylvania or in the Bahamas.
7 Senator Larkin's bill doesn't
8 accomplish all that yet. I hope this is the
9 first step to walk down that road. I agree
10 with Senator Leichter that it's a good idea
11 perhaps to require them to obtain authority to
12 do business in this state but there's no way
13 to enforce it against the Hong Kong
14 corporation unless we go to the next step.
15 I'll vote for it now, and I
16 hope we get to the next step in the near
17 future.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
19 President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Leichter, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator
23 Dollinger would yield. Senator Dollinger,
24 isn't it a fact that long-arm jurisdiction
25 does not -- or doing business to sustain
1626
1 long-arm jurisdiction doesn't depend on
2 whether this bill is passed or not? A court
3 could very -- let me finish the question. A
4 court could very well determine that by
5 conducting a gambling operation through the
6 Internet, you're doing business in New York
7 State. Doing business doesn't require -- and
8 as you pointed out, while the state of New
9 York could say gambling over the Internet is
10 deemed to be doing business in the state of
11 New York, that would require an amendment of
12 the CPLR which this bill doesn't do.
13 So I question whether this bill
14 in any way advances the test under the
15 standard of doing business.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through
17 you, Mr. President. This does not
18 specifically deal with the long-arm
19 jurisdiction issue. What this is, as I see
20 it, is a first step to move down the road to
21 addressing the long-arm jurisdiction issue,
22 and I agree with you that the courts can
23 interpret it currently to give New York State
24 jurisdiction over Internet gambling companies
25 wherever they are in the planet, but it would
1627
1 be preferable if this Legislature gave
2 guidance to the courts, expanded the scope of
3 the long-arm statute by -- and legislative
4 action, gave guidance to the courts as to what
5 we intended and have the issue of whether
6 we've gone too far challenged by some company
7 from the Bahamas when we get jurisdiction, get
8 a judgment and seek to enforce it some place
9 else. That's the way the system should work.
10 Again, I'm going to vote in
11 favor of this bill. I'm not convinced it's
12 the total solution, but I think it steps us
13 down the road a little bit, and I hope next
14 year we'll look at the long-arm statute,
15 expand the scope of jurisdiction so people who
16 are victimized by these Internet gambling
17 frauds will have a right of action here in New
18 York, can sue here in New York, give their
19 business to New York lawyers and then go
20 enforce their judgments some place else.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Chair recognizes Senator Gold.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr.
24 President.
25 I would like Senator Larkin to
1628
1 yield, but before that I would just like to
2 point out my admiration for Senator Leichter
3 who can smile about being wrong in a situation
4 which is more than the Senator and our other
5 colleagues do every time we're right for
6 something that is unconstituional. We never
7 hear about that one.
8 I also have been looking around
9 the room for Alice. I haven't seen her. I
10 know we've entered Wonderland with this bill.
11 Senator Larkin, if you would
12 yield to a question.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Larkin, do you yield?
15 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, there
20 is a principle of law in the state of New York
21 where we all happen to be standing which says
22 that the law never requires a useless act.
23 That's absolutely the law in this state.
24 You, by this law, are asking
25 someone to file a document requesting
1629
1 something that the law doesn't allow to be
2 given. Now, isn't that, in effect, passing a
3 law mandating a useless act?
4 SENATOR LARKIN: I think,
5 Senator, if you take a step back and look at
6 -- I would appreciate that. You have a
7 better view this way -- I would appreciate it
8 if you would think of what we're trying to do,
9 what has been discussed on the Internet, what
10 everybody else has been saying. There must be
11 a way to get a handle on the issue.
12 We've talked to people in
13 Washington. We've talked to people at other
14 states. We talked to what is known as the
15 "nickel states" that have the gambling that
16 have experienced greater problems with this
17 than New York has. Other states are doing the
18 same type of legislation and they're waiting
19 on the federal government and what the states
20 are trying to do is to get a handle on how -
21 the impact on New York. We are not telling
22 them that gambling is the state's rights. We
23 are not forcing them. We're letting them
24 submit an application to the Secretary of
25 State.
1630
1 SENATOR GOLD: Which will be
2 denied.
3 SENATOR LARKIN: That's right,
4 but the Secretary of State at that time will
5 have that data so if we need something and we
6 will hope that the federal government, with
7 their Kyl bill, will come up with what we have
8 been recommending to them to support us in New
9 York State, then we will have some direct
10 guidance. In the meantime, we think we should
11 move forward and try to control it, period.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Will the
13 gentleman yield to another question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Larkin, do you continue to yield? The Senator
16 continues to yield.
17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I
20 appreciate your interest in gambling and
21 trying to control it or hold it down. I think
22 one of the most disgusting things is child
23 pornography. Why don't you put in a bill that
24 says that if you want to go on the Internet
25 from Alaska -- from the Orient with child
1631
1 pornography, you have to apply to the
2 Secretary of State in New York for corporate
3 authorization? Why don't you tell people if
4 they want to commit interstate bank fraud that
5 they've got to file with the Secretary of
6 State and then you can say, Well, we're not
7 going to give the child pornographer a license
8 but now we're going to start getting a
9 database because all these child pornographers
10 reading the Larkin Law are going to start to
11 send in their applications. We won't give
12 them a license, but we'll know who they are.
13 Senator, this is fairyland. I
14 mean it really is. What are we talking about
15 here? If -- by the way, Senator -- on the
16 bill, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Gold, on the bill.
19 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I heard
20 about a week or so ago, I believe that the
21 U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New
22 York has indicted some of these off-shore
23 people for gambling on the Internet, what
24 you're talking about.
25 People have raised the issue in
1632
1 that lawsuit as to whether or not the federal
2 government has a right to go after these
3 people who are in some ways beyond our
4 jurisdiction but, Senator, the fact of the
5 matter is that you, in your legislative
6 background, have done some very good things.
7 Many of us have done good things. We do what
8 we can do and we should be smart enough to
9 understand what we can't do and leave it
10 alone.
11 The concept of telling someone
12 that they must file an application for
13 something that we have no authority to grant
14 because then we're going to have the names and
15 addresses of everybody who filed the
16 application is ludicrous. It makes no sense.
17 It's below our dignity. People will read this
18 and say we have lost our marbles, and I think
19 you ought to withdraw the bill.
20 If there was any jurisdiction
21 to control this, I would love to see it
22 controlled. I think that gambling should be
23 controlled. I'm not arguing that it's not a
24 state function to control it. I am arguing
25 that in spite of our right to control it, that
1633
1 we ought to have some personal pride in this
2 chamber as to what we put on a piece of paper
3 and, Senator Larkin, no one has better
4 motivation than you. No one is more sincere
5 than you, but we can't do it, can't do it, and
6 if you're home over the weekend and you're out
7 to dinner with friends or whatever, your
8 closest friends, you tell them that you put in
9 a bill that requires people to apply for a
10 license in New York that they can't get and
11 you're collecting a database and in the
12 privacy of having a drink or dinner with your
13 friends, you get their reaction, because
14 they're going to think we're all nuts.
15 I admire your attempt. I
16 admire your sensitivity to the issue, but this
17 bill does nothing except, I think most
18 respectfully, make us look a little not so
19 brilliant.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is
21 there any other Senator wishing to speak on
22 the bill?
23 (There was no response.)
24 Hearing none, the Secretary
25 will read the last section.
1634
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
2 This act shall take effect on the 90th day.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the
6 roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
8 the negatives and announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
10 in the negative on Calendar Number 340 are
11 Senators Connor, Gold, Leichter, Paterson,
12 Rosado and Waldon. Ayes 47, nays 6.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 bill is passed.
15 Senator Waldon, why do you
16 rise?
17 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
18 I was engaged in other Senate business when
19 the house considered Calendar 305. I'm
20 advised through listening to your statements
21 earlier that it's out of the house, but I
22 would like the record to reflect that had I
23 been here and had I had the opportunity, that
24 I would have voted in the negative.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would
1635
1 you like unanimous consent to be recorded in
2 the negative?
3 SENATOR WALDON: I'll be as
4 smooth as you if I keep working at it, right?
5 Yes, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
7 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
8 Waldon will be recorded in the negative on
9 Calendar Number 305.
10 The Secretary will continue to
11 read the controversial calendar.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 377, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2848,
14 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
15 relation to establishing the town of
16 Huntington Industrial Development Agency.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Marcellino, an explanation of Calendar Number
20 377, Senate Print 2848, has been requested by
21 Senator Paterson.
22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr.
23 President. This bill amends the General
24 Municipal Law by adding a new section, that
25 would be Section 907 (d) to establish the town
1636
1 of Huntington Industrial Development Agency in
2 the county of Suffolk.
3 It has been introduced at the
4 request and passed, by the way, by this house
5 at the request of the town of Huntington Town
6 Board, last year when the town board was under
7 Republican control and this year again when
8 the town board is under Democrat control.
9 It's an effort by the town to provide more
10 effective economic planning.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation
14 satisfactory, excellent.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
16 is a home rule message at the desk. The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
19 This act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
21 the roll.
22 (The Secretary called the
23 roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
25 the negatives. Announce the results.
1637
1 Senator Paterson, to explain
2 your vote?
3 SENATOR PATERSON: No, Mr.
4 President. I wanted to speak to you after the
5 vote.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay.
7 We'll conclude the roll call after the
8 negatives are recorded.
9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
10 in the negative on Calendar Number 377 are
11 Senators Leichter and Stachowski. Ayes 51,
12 nays 2.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 bill is passed.
15 Senator Paterson, why do you
16 rise?
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
18 President, with unanimous consent, I would
19 like to be recorded in the negative on
20 Calendar Number 305 which escaped this chamber
21 in a way that must have been faster than the
22 speed of light.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
24 objection, we will quickly record Senator
25 Paterson in the negative.
1638
1 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
3 would like unanimous consent to be recorded in
4 the negative on Calendar Number 305 which got
5 out of this chamber almost as well as you
6 putt.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
8 objection, record Senator Gold in the negative
9 on Calendar Number 305.
10 Senator Holland.
11 SENATOR HOLLAND: May we return
12 to reports of standing committees. I
13 understand the Children and Families Committee
14 report is available at the desk.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
16 return to the order of reports of standing
17 committees.
18 I'll ask the Secretary to
19 read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland,
21 from the Committee on Children and Families,
22 reports:
23 Senate Print 2379, by Senator
24 Saland, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure
25 Law and others;
1639
1 5149, by Senator Skelos, an act
2 to amend the Domestic Relations Law; and
3 5196, by Senator Saland, an act
4 to amend the Social Services Law.
5 All bills ordered direct to
6 third reading.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All
8 bills are ordered directly to third reading.
9 Senator Holland.
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr.
11 President, could you recognize Senator
12 Paterson. I understand he has an
13 announcement. Is that true?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Paterson.
16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
17 President, immediately after session, the
18 Senate Minority will have a Democratic
19 Conference in the conference room, Room 314 in
20 the Capitol.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
22 Immediately after session -- immediately after
23 session, there will be a Minority -
24 SENATOR ONORATO: For the
25 purpose of a search for Calendar 305.
1640
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pardon
2 -- excuse me just a minute, Senator Onorato.
3 Without objection, we're going to search for
4 305, right -- no. There is a meeting of the
5 Minority in the Minority Conference Room
6 immediately after session, Room 314, and
7 without objection, Senator Onorato will be
8 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
9 305. Okay. You don't want to be recorded in
10 the negative on Calendar Number 305?
11 SENATOR ONORATO: No.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All
13 right. Senator Holland, could we return to
14 motions and resolutions.
15 The Chair recognizes Senator
16 Rath.
17 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I
18 move that the following bill be discharged
19 from committee and be recommitted with
20 instructions to strike the enacting clause.
21 It's item 3203-B, Senator Rath's bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
23 objection, the bill will be recommitted.
24 Senator Holland.
25 SENATOR HOLLAND: No further
1641
1 housekeeping?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's
3 none.
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: There being
5 no further business, I move we adjourn until
6 Monday, March 16th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening
7 days being legislative days.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
10 Monday, March 16th, 3:00 p.m., intervening
11 days to be legislative days.
12 (Whereupon, at 12:08 p.m., the
13 Senate adjourned.)
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