Regular Session - March 11, 1998

                                                              1569

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         8                      ALBANY, NEW YORK

         9                       March 11, 1998

        10                          11:07 a.m.

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        13                      REGULAR SESSION

        14

        15

        16

        17       SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

        18       STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

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                                                          1570

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         4       find their places, the staff to find their

         5       places.  I'd ask everybody in the chamber to

         6       rise and join with me in saying the Pledge of

         7       Allegiance to the Flag.

         8                      (The assemblage repeated the

         9       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

        10                      In the absence of clergy, may

        11       we bow our heads in a moment of silence.

        12                      (A moment of silence was

        13       observed.)

        14                      The reading of the Journal.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        16       Tuesday, March 10th.  The Senate met pursuant

        17       to adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, May

        18       9th, was read and approved.  On motion, the

        19       Senate adjourned.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        21       no objection, the Journal stands approved as

        22       read.

        23                      Presentation of petitions.

        24                      Messages from the Assembly.

        25                      Messages from the Governor.







                                                          1571

         1                      Reports of standing committees.

         2                      Reports of select committees.

         3                      Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                      Motions and resolutions.

         6                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         7       Marcellino.

         8                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      On behalf of Senator Libous,

        11       please place a sponsor's star on Calendar

        12       Number 332.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Calendar Number 332 is starred at the request

        15       of the sponsor.

        16                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        17       President, on page -- on behalf of Senator

        18       Rath, on page number 16 (22), I offer the

        19       following amendments to Calendar Number 367,

        20       Senate Print Number 4412, and I ask that said

        21       bill retain its place on the Third Reading

        22       Calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

        25       will retain its place on the Third Reading







                                                          1572

         1       Calendar.

         2                      Senator Padavan.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr.

         4       President, would you place a sponsor's star on

         5       Calendar Number 97, my bill, Print Number

         6       3069.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Calendar Number 97 will be starred at the

         9       request of the sponsor.

        10                      Senator Marchi.

        11                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

        12       there is a special resolution that is at the

        13       desk.  I ask that it be read, along with the

        14       title.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Secretary will read the privileged resolution

        17       by Senator Marchi.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        19       Marchi, Legislative Resolution 2867,

        20       memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to

        21       proclaim February 3rd of each year as "Four

        22       Chaplains Day" in New York State.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Marchi, do you wish to speak on the bill -- on

        25       the resolution?







                                                          1573

         1                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Anything we

         2       say in this case would be inadequate and most

         3       of you -- or all of you are familiar with the

         4       fact that the four chaplains, Catholic, Jewish

         5       and Protestant joined hands and gave up their

         6       place of security when the ship that they were

         7       on was being attacked.  So they gave up their

         8       place of security, four of the mariners who

         9       were on the ship.

        10                      So it struck a very responsive

        11       chord across this nation, those of you who

        12       were alert and living at that time and it's

        13       going to be offered by the American Legion on

        14       this weekend.  So that's why I moved its

        15       adoption at this time.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       question is on the privileged resolution

        18       offered by Senator Marchi.  All those in favor

        19       signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye".)

        21                      Opposed, nay.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      The resolution is adopted.

        24                      Senator Bruno.

        25                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,







                                                          1574

         1       can I ask for a meeting of the Elections

         2       Committee immediately in Room 332.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         4       will be an immediate meeting of the Elections

         5       Committee, an immediate meeting of the

         6       Elections Committee in the Majority Conference

         7       Room, Room 332.

         8                      Senator Bruno, we have one

         9       substitution at the desk we would like to take

        10       now, if that's okay.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Okay.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the substitution.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 21,

        15       Senator Velella moves to discharge from the

        16       Committee on Cities, Assembly Bill Number

        17       3169-A and substitute it for the identical

        18       Third Reading Calendar 356.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       substitution is ordered.

        21                      Senator Bruno, that brings us

        22       to the calendar.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        24       can we at this time take up the non

        25       controversial calendar.







                                                          1575

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the non-controversial

         3       calendar.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       180, by member of the Assembly Harenberg,

         6       Assembly Print 3920-A, an act to amend the

         7       Education Law, in relation to the provision of

         8       physical therapy.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        12       This act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the

        16       roll.)

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       182, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        22       Assembly Print 8546-A, an act in relation to

        23       persons who may practice a profession within

        24       the state without a license.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                          1576

         1       Secretary will read the last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         3       This act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

         5       the roll.

         6                      (The Secretary called the

         7       roll.)

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Balboni, why do you rise?

        10                      SENATOR BALBONI:  Mr.

        11       President, I would ask -- request to be -

        12       unanimous consent to be -- to abstain from

        13       voting on this particular measure.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        15       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        16       Balboni will be marked as abstaining from the

        17       vote.

        18                      The Secretary will record the

        19       negatives and announce the results.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 36.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        24       234, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5525, an

        25       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and







                                                          1577

         1       others, in relation to the collection of

         2       financial obligations.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.

         6       This act shall take effect on the first day of

         7       November.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the

        11       roll.)

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       263, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6084, an

        17       act to amend the New York City Charter.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside,

        19       please.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        21       bill aside.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       298, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 243, an

        24       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        25       requiring that the State University graduation







                                                          1578

         1       ceremonies include the Pledge of Allegiance

         2       and National Anthem.

         3                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay it

         5       aside.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       303, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 2558, an

         8       act to amend the Correction Law, in relation

         9       to co-payment of fees for medical services.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        13       This act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the

        17       roll.)

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       304, by Senator Nozzolio -

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Lay it aside

        24       for the day.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the







                                                          1579

         1       bill aside for the day.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         3       305, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3408-A -

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       306, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print -

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Lay it aside

        10       for the day.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        12       bill aside for the day.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       322, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3766,

        15       an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

        16       to permitting the Secretary of State to

        17       receive records.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read the last section.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

        21       This act shall take effect immediately.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        23       the roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the

        25       roll.)







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         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 37.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       324, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

         6       4129-A, an act authorizing the Commissioner of

         7       General Services to transfer and convey

         8       certain state lands.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.

        12       This act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the

        16       roll.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Wright, why do you rise?

        19                      SENATOR WRIGHT:  Mr. President,

        20       I request unanimous consent to be recorded as

        21       abstaining from this vote.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        24       Wright will be denoted as abstaining on the

        25       vote.







                                                          1581

         1                      The Secretary will record the

         2       negatives and announce the results.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         7       333, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1488, an

         8       act to amend the Public Health Law, in

         9       relation to public notification of health

        10       hazards.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        14       This act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the

        18       roll.)

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        20       the negatives and announce the results.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39, nays

        22       1, Senator Cook recorded in the negative.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                          1582

         1       340, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4174, an

         2       act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in

         3       relation to requiring any foreign corporation.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Lay it aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       344, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4266, an

         9       act to amend the General Business Law, in

        10       relation to false price comparisons.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.

        14       This act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the

        18       roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       377, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2848,

        24       an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        25       relation to establishing the town of







                                                          1583

         1       Huntington.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         3       is a home rule message at the desk.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it

         5       aside.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

         7       bill aside.

         8                      Senator Bruno, that completes

         9       the reading of the non-controversial calendar.

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      Can we at this time return to

        13       motions and resolutions.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        15       return to the order of motions and

        16       resolutions.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  And I believe

        18       that there is a privileged resolution at the

        19       desk by Senator Goodman.  I would ask that the

        20       title be read and move for its immediate

        21       adoption.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will read the title to the

        24       privileged resolution at the desk by Senator

        25       Goodman.







                                                          1584

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         2       Goodman, Legislative Resolution 2868, mourning

         3       the death of Eric M. Breindel, outstanding

         4       journalist and distinguished citizen.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Chair recognizes Senator Goodman on the

         7       resolution.

         8                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr.

         9       President, I have asked that we waive the

        10       reading of the full resolution, but I would

        11       like to say a few special words on behalf of

        12       the resolution, if I may.

        13                      Mr. President, last Saturday

        14       the state of New York and the world -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Goodman, excuse me just a minute.  There's an

        17       awful lot of noise in the chamber.  I know

        18       it's very difficult for members to hear.  I

        19       would ask the staff to take their places,

        20       members to take their chairs.  If you need to

        21       have a conversation, let's take it out of the

        22       chamber.

        23                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr.

        24       President.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank







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         1       you for the indulgence, Senator Goodman.

         2                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr.

         3       President, last Saturday the City, state and

         4       nation lost a brilliant journalist and a great

         5       humanitarian.  His name is Eric Breindel and

         6       for many years he was the editorial chairman

         7       of the New York Post and a man who gained

         8       universal respect for the forthrightness of

         9       his views, the brilliant lucidity of his

        10       editorials and the extreme integrity with

        11       which he addressed his work as both a

        12       journalist and one in pursuit of justice for

        13       the press multitudes.

        14                      Eric Breindel came from a

        15       unique background.  Both of his parents were

        16       victims of the Holocaust and throughout his

        17       life he was especially devoted to both his

        18       father and mother and at the funeral which was

        19       held in New York on Monday morning, there was

        20       an extraordinary outpouring of respect and

        21       affection for this unique man.

        22                      Those who were in attendance at

        23       the funeral ranged from the high and mighty to

        24       the common people of the state.  Governor

        25       Pataki was there, Senator D'Amato and Senator







                                                          1586

         1       Moynihan were there, Mayor Giuliani, Henry

         2       Kissinger, a wide range of notable

         3       celebrities, as well as those who had watched

         4       for years with admiration the work of this

         5       unique individual.

         6                      I knew Eric Breindel personally

         7       and counted him as a close friend.  We

         8       attended one another's social gatherings and

         9       he was always genial and exceptionally

        10       forthcoming in his generous understanding of

        11       human nature.

        12                      Mr. President, I would like to

        13       just comment on one or two of his special

        14       qualities as we consider this resolution.

        15       Eric Breindel was the senior vice-president of

        16       the News Corporation.  He had a legion of

        17       friends, colleagues, and world leaders

        18       remembered him warmly for his honesty, razor

        19       sharp intellect, remarkable leadership and

        20       uncomplaining determination.

        21                      Many years ago he was diagnosed

        22       with cancer and had painful episodes with

        23       which he always -- which he always handled

        24       with extraordinary bravery.  He also was not

        25       afraid ever at any point in his journalistic







                                                          1587

         1       career to take on tough campaigns on from time

         2       to time very unpopular causes.

         3                      The resolution which we have

         4       sponsored today describes him as a champion of

         5       the state of Israel and it takes note of the

         6       fact that Breindel was known for his vigorous

         7       conservative viewpoint and his unique ability

         8       to influence political debate in the City and

         9       around the world in his finely crafted

        10       literate and clear-sighted columns.

        11                      Mr. President, Eric Breindel

        12       brought to his columns a remarkable series of

        13       insights, but one of the things for which I

        14       always had greatest respect for him was the

        15       fact that he had a great sense of

        16       communication with people, even those who

        17       disagreed strongly with his own very strongly

        18       held views.

        19                      Eric Breindel was a congenial

        20       man and a collegial man.  He welcomed the

        21       chance for debate.  He was zestful in his

        22       propounding of his own point of view but was a

        23       careful listener to those who disagreed and

        24       were diametrically opposed to him.

        25                      I thought one of the unique







                                                          1588

         1       statements made at his funeral was that of a

         2       young woman who had been a friend of his and

         3       regarded him as a surrogate father.  She

         4       happened to be the granddaughter of Katherine

         5       Graham, the editor of the Washington Post and

         6       she said that she disagreed with virtually

         7       every one of his editorial positions and loved

         8       him as a father because of his kindness to her

         9       and the fact that he would always have a

        10       special ability to communicate with young

        11       people.  She commented that one evening while

        12       leaving a party he accidentally knocked the

        13       front porch off a house in which the party had

        14       been held and his comment was he thought the

        15       house looked better that way.

        16                      He was a man with a keen sense

        17       of humor, a great sense of the importance of

        18       sticking up for those who were in trouble in

        19       life and an enormous dedication to the state

        20       of Israel and to the importance of having it

        21       provide a shelter and a place for those

        22       oppressed always to go in the future and never

        23       to permit the Holocaust to be repeated.

        24                      He viewed with great derision

        25       those who sought to revise history, to suggest







                                                          1589

         1       that the Holocaust never existed and he was an

         2       ardent champion of the rights of the Israelis

         3       to have a homeland free from the constant

         4       threat and the overhang of and the possibility

         5       of extinction.

         6                      And so, Mr. President, as we

         7       salute him in his premature death at the age

         8       of 42, we realize that a very important notion

         9       in life is not -- it is not necessarily the

        10       length of time that we are here on earth, but

        11       the quality of the hours we spend and the

        12       contribution we make during the time that we

        13       are active in our pursuit of what we believe

        14       in.

        15                      It is with those notions that I

        16       ask the house to unanimously adopt this

        17       resolution and ask that it be opened to

        18       sponsorship by any members who wish to join in

        19       its resolution.

        20                      Thank you very much, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Chair recognizes Senator Maltese, on the

        24       resolution.

        25                      SENATOR MALTESE:  Mr.







                                                          1590

         1       President, I can add very little to what

         2       Senator Goodman has indicated, except I did

         3       want to note that Eric was always accessible,

         4       always available despite, as Senator Goodman

         5       has so aptly described, his academic acumen,

         6       his intellectual achievements.  He always was

         7       ready for advice on a national basis to both

         8       conservatives and liberals alike across the

         9       nation.  He was of invaluable assistance to

        10       the Conservative Party, to the conservative

        11       movement.  He was -- he combined all the

        12       intellectual qualities with being, as they

        13       say, a regular guy.  He is a person that will

        14       be sorely missed by this nation and a very

        15       severe loss at such a young age as 42.

        16                      I am proud to join in Senator

        17       Goodman's resolution.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Chair recognizes Senator Marchi on the

        20       resolution.

        21                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Mr. President,

        22       I believe Senator Goodman has stated the

        23       circumstances and facts that sustain the

        24       purpose of this resolution.

        25                      I can attest personally that







                                                          1591

         1       two presidents, at least and perhaps others,

         2       but President Nixon and President Reagan both

         3       shared with me when we were engaged in casual

         4       conversation their unbounded estimate and

         5       respect that they had at that time of Mr.

         6       Breindel and it's -- I think having known him

         7       and having heard even casual comments, they

         8       were all excellent in their assessment of this

         9       exceptional individual.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is

        11       there any other Senator wishing to speak on

        12       the resolution?

        13                      (There was no response.)

        14                      Senator Goodman has opened the

        15       resolution for co-sponsorship.  Are there

        16       members who would like to be listed as

        17       co-sponsors?  Seeing a multitude -- Senator

        18       Bruno, should we put everybody on as a co

        19       sponsor, excepting those people who do not

        20       wish to be on the resolution as a co-sponsor?

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  If they

        23       would so indicate to the desk, then we'll

        24       direct that all members be added as

        25       co-sponsors.







                                                          1592

         1                      The question is on the

         2       resolution offered by Senator Goodman.  All

         3       those in favor signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (There was no response.)

         7                      The resolution is adopted.

         8                      Senator Bruno.

         9                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        10       can we at this time take up the controversial

        11       calendar.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read the controversial

        14       calendar.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       263, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6084, an

        17       act to amend the New York City Charter.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Explanation.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 263

        21       has been requested by Senator Gold.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                      This legislation corrects a

        25       bill drafting error in Chapter 569 of a law -







                                                          1593

         1       a bill we passed which became law last year.

         2       The intent of that chapter was to allow nail

         3       and mail service of Environmental Control

         4       Board violations, the property owners of one-,

         5       two- and three-family buildings.  It was

         6       important in terms of strengthening New York

         7       City's ability to deal precisely with a very

         8       pervasive problem of illegal occupancies and

         9       illegal conversions.

        10                      Unfortunately due to a drafting

        11       error that placed language in Subparagraph A

        12       (i) instead of Paragraph A (ii) of Section

        13       1404, Chapter 569 unintentionally permits nail

        14       and mail service on all residential and

        15       commercial property and restricts the use of

        16       personal service which was previously allowed

        17       for all residential and commercial buildings.

        18                      Expansion of the nail and mail

        19       service, while restricting personal service

        20       was never the intention of the city of New

        21       York or the state Legislature.

        22                      This amendment reinstates, by

        23       the way, in addition to the other error, the

        24       ability of the fire department and the

        25       department of buildings to personally serve







                                                          1594

         1       notice of ECB violations on residential and

         2       commercial buildings and restricts nail and

         3       mail service to one, two and three residential

         4       buildings.

         5                      Also, some language that

         6       inadvertently was deleted relating to

         7       additional mailings of notice of violations is

         8       rectified with this amendment.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Gold.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the

        13       gentleman yield to a question?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Padavan, do you yield?  The Senator yields.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I

        18       certainly am not suggesting that we should by

        19       inadvertence eliminate situations of personal

        20       service and if it was merely what you're

        21       saying, I could start to understand the bill,

        22       but I'm looking at the bill.  I'm looking at

        23       the City's memo and if you could help me, I

        24       would be very grateful.

        25                      On page 2 of your bill, it says







                                                          1595

         1        "provided, however, that the department of

         2       buildings and the fire department may not

         3       utilize the procedures set forth in this item

         4       to serve a notice of violation relating to

         5       commercial premises or residential premises

         6       with illegal occupancy of four or more

         7       dwellings."

         8                      So if we left the law alone and

         9       did not put this phrase in, I understand they

        10       could use the nail and mail on commercial

        11       properties also.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Correct.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  But where is it

        14       in the bill where it talks about restricting

        15       the personal service?  I don't see any of that

        16       in the bill.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  It was not -

        18       what do you mean "restricting"?  The original

        19       -

        20                      SENATOR GOLD:  In other words

        21       -

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Our bill

        23       passed.  It passed last year.  Inadvertently

        24       it left that out.

        25                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, I don't







                                                          1596

         1       see that.  That's what I'm trying to tell

         2       you.

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  It's there.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, Senator,

         5       if you'll let me ask the question.

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Sure.  I

         7       thought I answered it.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  There are two

         9       concerns I have with the piece of

        10       legislation.  Number one, assuming that

        11       personal service remained available -- and I

        12       think it should remain available -- I don't

        13       know why we would want to restrict the fire

        14       department and the buildings department from

        15       using this additional method of making service

        16       in commercial situations.  Maybe you could

        17       explain to me how we are hurting the city of

        18       New York rather than helping the city of New

        19       York by allowing them that extra method, the

        20       nail and mail method, if it deals with

        21       commercial violations.

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  All right.  I

        23       understand your question, Senator.  I'll try

        24       and answer it.

        25                      First, the problems that the







                                                          1597

         1       City historically has experienced is not with

         2       commercial establishments because the owners

         3       of commercial buildings and the managing

         4       agents of commercial buildings are readily

         5       available.  So the need to nail a violation to

         6       the front door of a commercial building has

         7       never been necessary.  There's been no

         8       difficulty whatsoever historically as far as

         9       the city of New York is able to relate to us

        10       and frankly in terms of my own personal

        11       experience in doing that.

        12                      The problem has been with the

        13       illegal conversion of one-, two- and three

        14       family residential buildings where either we

        15       have an absentee owner or access is refused to

        16       a building inspector, and so that precipitated

        17       the bill we passed last year.

        18                      So to answer your question

        19       directly, it is simply a question of need and

        20       in the City's judgment and one with which I

        21       concur, the need is with the ones, twos and

        22       threes and not with the commercial buildings.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the Senator

        24       yield to a question?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                          1598

         1       Padavan, do you continue to yield?

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  As I understand

         3       it, Senator, the fact that the City has this

         4       authority isn't hurting the City.  You're

         5       saying that they want to eliminate it even

         6       though they have it because they don't need

         7       it, isn't that correct?

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Would you say

         9       that again, please?

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  Surely.

        11       Senator, if I understand your comments, the

        12       law last year gave the City the authority to

        13       nail and mail in not only the ones, twos and

        14       threes which you talk about but in all other

        15       situations, residential and commercial, and

        16       what I believe you just said is even though

        17       they've got that authority, they want to give

        18       up that authority because they say they don't

        19       need it.  Is that it?

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  They don't.

        21       They never had -- they never did need it.

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  And if this bill

        23       did not pass, they would have the authority

        24       and if they don't want to use it, they don't

        25       have to use it, isn't that correct?







                                                          1599

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No, they

         2       don't, I guess.  In fact, you're right.  It

         3       just an encumbrance that's unnecessary.

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  Well, when you

         5       say it's an encumbrance, Senator, you're

         6       adding more language in here so you're making

         7       a bigger law than it was without your

         8       language, so it's not encumbrance.

         9                      The one part that I didn't

        10       understand which, in my opinion, would justify

        11       your bill, it says that in doing what we did

        12       last year, we apparently restricted the use of

        13       personal service.  Now, that's in the City's

        14       memo.  It says that the -- unintentionally

        15       permits nail and mail and restricts the use of

        16       personal service.

        17                      I don't see anywhere in your

        18       bill where we are unrestricting personal

        19       service, and I would just like you to point

        20       that out to me if you can.  The City's memo

        21       said that was one of the problems with the

        22       amendment last year and, therefore, we're

        23       doing the Padavan bill.  I don't see in here

        24       where we are unrestricting that and maybe I'm

        25       just missing that, but if you could show that







                                                          1600

         1       to me.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  As far as I

         3       know, Senator, the language in the bill that

         4       you have, the amendment before us today -

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  I'm sorry?

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The amendment

         7       we have before us today restores something

         8       that we inadvertently left out last year.

         9                      SENATOR GOLD:  But that's what

        10       I'm asking you, Senator.  Where is it

        11       restored?  It's a short bill.  If you want to

        12       lay it aside a day, that's okay.

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I don't need

        14       to lay it aside.

        15                      SENATOR GOLD:  I understand

        16       that but, Senator, the City's memo says they

        17       had inadvertently have made a restriction on

        18       personal service.  If they've done that, that

        19       concerns me, and I will certainly want to give

        20       them unfettered ability to make personal

        21       service, but if you take a look at the

        22       language that you're adding to this bill and

        23       there is some language taken out on page 1,

        24       but I just want to understand where -- and

        25       there's some two words taken out on page 2 -







                                                          1601

         1       I would just like to understand where in this

         2       bill it cures that particular problem that's

         3       set forth in the City's memo.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Well,

         5       Senator, if you read the bracketed parts on

         6       lines 21 to 24, you see where it says that the

         7       department of buildings and fire department

         8       may not utilize the procedures set forth in

         9       this item to serve a notice of violation?

        10                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  So

        11       that's -- so on line 20 -- that's all right.

        12       I think you gave me my answer.

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I think so.

        14                      SENATOR GOLD:  On lines 20 to

        15       24, if we did not eliminate that language,

        16       they would not be able to -

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yeah.  See

        18       the word "not"?

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  That's what I'm

        20       -- let me just ask the question.

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No.  I'm

        22       saying -- I'm pointing out to you, the answer

        23       to your question, we're taking that out

        24       because it said "may not utilize" and that

        25       corrects the problem that you referred to.







                                                          1602

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.  And

         2       where it says "may not utilize", that's the

         3       personal service procedure?

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         5                      SENATOR GOLD:  All right.

         6       Thank you for your help.

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  You're

         8       welcome.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any

        10       other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        11                      (There was no response.)

        12                      Hearing none, the Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        15       This act shall take effect immediately.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        17       the roll.

        18                      (The Secretary called the

        19       roll.)

        20                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        22       Waldon, to explain your vote.

        23                      SENATOR WALDON:  No.  When

        24       we're finished with this, I wanted to -

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We're







                                                          1603

         1       on a roll call.

         2                      SENATOR WALDON:  Sorry about

         3       that.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         5       Announce the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51, nays

         7       1, Senator Sampson recorded in the negative.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      Senator Waldon, did you wish

        11       to -

        12                      SENATOR WALDON:  Yes, Mr.

        13       President.  I would like the record to reflect

        14       unanimous consent to be recorded in the

        15       negative on 303.  I was out of the chamber on

        16       other business.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        18       objection, Senator Waldon will be recorded in

        19       the negative on Calendar Number 303.

        20                      The Secretary will continue to

        21       call the controversial calendar, but before

        22       that, Senator Bruno.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        24       can I ask for an immediate meeting of the

        25       Children and Families Committee in Room 332.







                                                          1604

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

         2       will be an immediate meeting of the Children

         3       and Families Committee in the Majority

         4       Conference Room, Room 332.  Immediate meeting

         5       of the Children and Families Committee in the

         6       Majority Conference Room, Room 332.

         7                      The Secretary will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         9       298, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 243, an

        10       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        11       requiring that the State University graduation

        12       ceremonies include the Pledge of Allegiance

        13       and National Anthem.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Secretary will read the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        17       This act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the

        21       roll.)

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                          1605

         1       305, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3408-A,

         2       an act to amend the Executive Law and the

         3       Penal Law, in relation to payment of a fee by

         4       persons sentenced to probation.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

         8       This act shall take effect on the first day of

         9       November.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the

        13       roll.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      Senator Gold.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        19       may I have unanimous consent to be voted in

        20       the negative on Calendar 298.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        22       objection, hearing no objection, Senator Gold

        23       will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        24       Number 298.

        25                      The Secretary will continue to







                                                          1606

         1       read.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

         3       President, with unanimous consent, might I

         4       offer to move to reconsider Calendar 298 which

         5       just passed this chamber seconds ago which

         6       Senator Leichter had asked me to lay aside.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       motion is to reconsider the vote by which

         9       Calendar Number 298 passed the house.

        10                      The Secretary will call the

        11       roll on reconsideration.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll

        13       on reconsideration.)

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       bill is before the house.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  May we have

        18       an explanation on that bill.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        20       Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 298

        21       has been requested by Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr.

        23       President, this bill requires the Education

        24       Department to promulgate regulations

        25       concerning the recitation of the Pledge of







                                                          1607

         1       Allegiance and performance of the National

         2       Anthem at all graduation ceremonies of the

         3       State University institutions.

         4                      Thank you.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Paterson, explanation satisfactory?

         7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  It's

         8       satisfactory to me, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        12       This act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the

        16       roll.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        18       the negatives.

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        20       President, just -

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        22       Announce the results.

        23                      Senator Leichter.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        25       President, if I may explain my vote, please.







                                                          1608

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Leichter, to explain his vote.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah.  I

         4       don't think anybody who's voting against the

         5       bill has any problems with playing the

         6       National Anthem or reciting the Pledge of

         7       Allegiance at graduation ceremonies or at any

         8       other occasion.  In fact, we honor the

         9       National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance

        10       as much as anybody else.  We just don't

        11       believe it is the role and function of the

        12       Legislature to interfere with the functions of

        13       the State University to the extent of telling

        14       them how to do their graduation.  Next we'll

        15       see a bill will tell them how to set up the

        16       chairs or what robes they should wear, what

        17       speeches they ought to make.  This is rank

        18       interference.

        19                      As we've suggested in the past,

        20       if Senator Johnson wants to do something for

        21       the State University -- it needs a lot of

        22       help, Senator Johnson, no question about it -

        23       I would like to see you work to try to get

        24       more funding for the State University, more

        25       TAP, deal with the problems of deteriorated







                                                          1609

         1       campuses but not tell them how to conduct

         2       their graduation.

         3                      I vote in the negative.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Leichter will be recorded in the negative.

         6       Announce the results.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

         8       in the negative on Calendar Number 298 are

         9       Senators Gold, Leichter, Markowitz, Seabrook,

        10       Smith and Waldon.  Ayes 47, nays 6.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       340, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4174, an

        15       act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in

        16       relation to requiring any foreign corporation

        17       providing gambling.

        18                      SENATOR GOLD:  Hold on a

        19       second.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Gold, did you have a question of the sponsor?

        22                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President,

        23       my question was about Calendar Number 305,

        24       which I understand that's passed?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  That







                                                          1610

         1       did pass, but let me continue on this bill and

         2       if you have any further questions, I'll be

         3       happy -

         4                      SENATOR GOLD:  I want to recall

         5       305, so can we hold -

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  It's

         7       out of the house, Senator.

         8                      SENATOR GOLD:  It's out of the

         9       house.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Your

        11       motion would be inappropriate at the time

        12       because we're already on another bill.

        13                      SENATOR GOLD:  I know, but

        14       you're telling me -

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  It's

        16       out of the house.  It left five minutes ago.

        17                      SENATOR GOLD:  But it's out of

        18       the house?

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  It's

        20       out of the house.

        21                      The Secretary will read the

        22       last section on Calendar Number 340.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No.  If

        24       Senator Larkin would yield, please.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                          1611

         1       Larkin, do you yield to a question from

         2       Senator Leichter?

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Senator yields.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

         8       took a quick look -- I took a quick look at

         9       your bill, Senator, and I just question the

        10       constitutionality of what we're doing.  Isn't

        11       this an area that's preempted by the commerce

        12       clause?  Are you saying that if a company, a

        13       corporation in Nevada, wishes over the

        14       Internet to set up a gambling operation or

        15       operation that would allow people in New York

        16       City or New York State to gamble, that we can

        17       force that corporation to incorporate in New

        18       York?

        19                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Two things,

        20       Senator.  Senator Kyl from Arizona, with

        21       sponsors on both sides of the aisle in both

        22       the House and Senate in Washington, have their

        23       own bill to address this.

        24                      Our bill is very specific.  We

        25       have, with the attorney generals across the







                                                          1612

         1       state and our own Attorney General Vacco, who

         2       is chairing the attorney generals' cause on

         3       this, what we're trying to do is to just get a

         4       handle on it because we're getting

         5       correspondence every day, Senator, of people

         6       who are getting invites to participate in

         7       this.

         8                      Recently there was a -- sent to

         9       us some information on this Internet gambling

        10       and, lo and behold, going through the numbers

        11       that we were told to call, we found out in

        12       support of an off-shore in Antigua, the phone

        13       call was in Billy Stachowski's area in

        14       Buffalo, New York.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        16       Larkin will continue to yield.

        17                      SENATOR LARKIN:  One other

        18       thing I would like to point out.  If you'll

        19       read the memo, what we're saying is that we're

        20       asking them to file it.  Technically there's

        21       no gambling.  It's illegal to gamble in New

        22       York State.  So the Secretary of State

        23       technically cannot accept and validate their

        24       application.

        25                      What we're trying to do is to







                                                          1613

         1       try to build a base so we can be supportive of

         2       our people who maybe are being bilked out of

         3       dollars with off-shore companies that they

         4       don't know.  We're trying to build a

         5       database.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, if

         7       you would be so good as to continue to yield.

         8       I don't question the fact that there's a

         9       problem.  I don't question the intent of our

        10       trying to deal with it, but you haven't

        11       addressed what is -- my difficulty with this

        12       bill is that I believe that the state of New

        13       York cannot force a company that's in

        14       interstate commerce and that's not located in

        15       New York State to incorporate in New York

        16       State, and I just wondered whether you had

        17       done any research on that issue.

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Well, we

        19       haven't changed the bill from last year,

        20       Senator Leichter.  We're not -- we're not

        21       forcing them.  They can stay incorporated

        22       wherever they're at.  What we're trying to do

        23       is to get a handle on this issue which is

        24       growing by leaps and bounds.  Every bit of

        25       information we're told that this is an







                                                          1614

         1       industry, by next year will be worth $20

         2       billion and we're not saying that you must

         3       incorporate in New York State.  We're very

         4       clear.

         5                      Go ahead.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Excuse me,

         7       Mr. President.  If Senator Larkin would

         8       continue to yield.

         9                      That's exactly what you're

        10       saying.  You're saying it shall, therefore, be

        11       required.  You use the word "required".  You

        12       require that corporation to obtain

        13       authorization to do business in this state,

        14       and I don't think that constitutionally we can

        15       do that.

        16                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Two things:

        17       Gambling is illegal in the state of New York,

        18       so we didn't change the Constitution.  The

        19       Secretary of State cannot officially receive

        20       your application and get it.  What we're

        21       saying, he can accept it and he will reject it

        22       because there is no gambling and then we will

        23       have our database of who you are and where you

        24       are.

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If you would







                                                          1615

         1       continue to yield.  I think we're talking at

         2       cross-purposes but then that's not unusual in

         3       this chamber.  I don't mean between you and

         4       me.

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I'm not

         6       mean-spirited on this one.  You've got to

         7       admit that.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,

         9       it's just that you're not addressing the issue

        10       that I'm raising.  First of all, you're saying

        11       that we're not requiring them to do this, but

        12       the language in the bill says they shall be

        13       required.

        14                      Secondly, you say that there's

        15       no authorization for the Secretary of State to

        16       submit a charter of a corporation that says

        17       "our business is gambling" because gambling

        18       is illegal in the state.  Are you saying that

        19       the purpose of your bill is to provide that

        20       the Secretary of State may accept the charter

        21       of a corporation that wishes to engage in

        22       gambling if the gambling is being conducted

        23       over the Internet?

        24                      SENATOR LARKIN:  We're saying

        25       solely that the Secretary of State, they can







                                                          1616

         1       file with him, it says.  We're asking him to

         2       file with the Secretary of State.  The

         3       Secretary of State does not have any authority

         4       to turn around then and certify them as an

         5       Internet operator in the state of New York.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Okay.  But

         7       my question still is, Senator, the very first

         8       question I asked, do you have any authority?

         9       Have you looked into the constitutional issue

        10       and question that this corporation not being

        11       located in New York State and being engaged in

        12       interstate commerce, whether we have the

        13       authority and the legal right under the U.S.

        14       Constitution to require that corporation to

        15       incorporate in New York State?  And your bill

        16       says that they must and while I can't say that

        17       I am particularly knowledgeable of the

        18       commerce clause, not having really looked at

        19       it much since my days in law school which was

        20       many years ago, but it still seems to me, as I

        21       recollect, that the commerce clause gives that

        22       authority to Congress, and I don't believe

        23       that the state of New York can make a

        24       corporation that's not physically located in

        25       the state, that's merely transacting business







                                                          1617

         1       through the Internet to say you must

         2       incorporate in the state of New York.  I don't

         3       want you to do something that's fruitless.  I

         4       don't want us here as a body to pass

         5       legislation, people are going to look at it

         6       and say this is laughable.  These guys never

         7       read the U.S. Constitution.  They don't know

         8       about the commerce clause.

         9                      Now, I may be wrong and maybe

        10       you've looked into that issue.  I hope it's

        11       not on the reliance of the Attorney General of

        12       this state, but I would trust your research

        13       into it, but if you haven't done that

        14       research, I raise the question whether this

        15       bill is within the purview and authority of

        16       the state of New York to enact.

        17                      SENATOR LARKIN:  The only

        18       response I have, Franz, is that under the

        19       Constitution, gambling is a state's issue.

        20       The proposals put forth by Senator Kyl and

        21       other members in the House addresses part of

        22       the problem that I think you're talking about,

        23       but right now we believe having researched

        24       this matter, talked to the people at the fed's

        25       and talked all around, we believe we're doing







                                                          1618

         1       the right thing for the people of the state of

         2       New York and so far have that authority

         3       because gambling is the state's rights.  It's

         4       our right to regulate gambling and what we're

         5       trying to do is get a handle on an issue that

         6       is growing by leaps and bounds.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         8       Leichter, are you asking Senator Larkin to

         9       continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.

        11       Senator, I understand what you're saying, but

        12       I seriously question whether we have the

        13       authority to do this.

        14                      I yield to Senator Marchi.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Marchi.

        17                      SENATOR MARCHI:  You're stating

        18       something that is at least partially

        19       established, but I was wondering whether there

        20       was more to it in terms of police powers given

        21       the nature of the Senator's sponsorship?  I

        22       believe that there is -- it's not that clear

        23       where you're weighing police powers by the

        24       state but -

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I







                                                          1619

         1       still think the police power of the state of

         2       New York is significantly limited to the

         3       extent that we're dealing with matters in an

         4       interstate commerce that have been either

         5       exempted -- I don't mean exempted -- have been

         6       taken over by the federal government or are

         7       reserved to the federal government by the -

         8       by the Constitution.

         9                      I just don't know what we're

        10       accomplishing here.  I think what we're

        11       dealing with is a very serious problem that we

        12       have in this state and frankly throughout the

        13       nation and throughout the world, that you now

        14       have means of communication.  How do you

        15       control the Internet?  How do you control a

        16       company, they could be in Macao, they could be

        17       in Hong Kong and they're conducting gambling

        18       over the Internet?  How does New York State

        19       which tries to protect its citizens from

        20       gambling, how do we control that?

        21                      The answer is probably that we

        22       can't.  Let Senator Larkin try, but I think on

        23       this one he's being a Don Quixote and tilting

        24       at windmills.

        25                      SENATOR MARCHI:  Senator, just







                                                          1620

         1       one more question.  Suppose I wanted to do

         2       something like this and I'm not doing too well

         3       within the state and so you go to another

         4       jurisdiction, would that confer -- well, it's

         5       debatable just what it would confer, but under

         6       this bill, the application, at least we would

         7       know about it.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, maybe

         9       the key issue is -- if I could just ask

        10       Senator Larkin to yield again for a moment.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Larkin, do you yield to another question from

        13       Senator Leichter?

        14                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,

        18       what happens, I'm a company in Hong Kong and

        19       I'm conducting this gambling operation through

        20       the Internet and somebody comes to me in Hong

        21       Kong and says, Hey, you didn't register in New

        22       York under the Larkin Law.  I say, The Larkin

        23       Law?  Yeah.  Everybody knows the Larkin Law.

        24       You got to register in New York State to

        25       conduct gambling and I say, The hell with it.







                                                          1621

         1       Let Larkin come and tell me to my face I got

         2       to register.  What does New York State do?

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Well, Senator

         4       Leichter, I would like to refer this back to

         5       something last year when we had in this

         6       chamber what's called Megan's Law and you and

         7       a few others had objected to it and it went to

         8       the courts, the highest courts and the court

         9       said that New York State was right.  I think

        10       that this is a matter -- I believe that that's

        11       why

        12       we should let this out.  We're not forcing

        13       anybody.  We're not changing the commerce

        14       law.  We checked with people in Washington and

        15       the attorney generals, 50 of them, bipartisan

        16       believe that this is the right approach to

        17       address the issue.  We don't have a handle on

        18       something that is growing by leaps and bounds

        19       and, Senator, what I would think we should be

        20       doing, we should be passing this and then if

        21       somebody wants to take it to the courts, let

        22       them.  I think that we're doing what's right

        23       for the people of the state of New York.

        24                      Thank you.

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,







                                                          1622

         1       just one more question on this.  I appreciate

         2       your -- the point that you very subtly made:

         3       Leichter, you were wrong on Megan's Law.  Why

         4       should we listen to you?

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I didn't mean

         6       it disrespectfully.

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  It's

         8       perfectly fair.

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  You voted for

        10       this bill back in 1997.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Perfectly

        12       proper, and I will acknowledge after a

        13       momentary victory at the District Court level,

        14       every court since then has said I was wrong on

        15       that issue, but I'm raising the practical

        16       problem now.  Your law has passed.  You've got

        17       this company in Hong Kong doing business over

        18       the Internet.  They thumb their nose at the

        19       Larkin Law.  What do you do?  What does New

        20       York State do?  You've got this company.

        21       They've refused to register and they're still

        22       sending their material under the Internet

        23       gambling.  What do you do?

        24                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Go back to the

        25       basic principle -- purpose of what we're







                                                          1623

         1       trying to do to this bill.  We're trying to

         2       build a database.  We're trying to work with

         3       Congress to get them to enact some federal

         4       legislation, and I think we're in the right

         5       direction, Franz.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Thank you.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Gold, I have several people before you.

        10                      Senator Dollinger.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                      I rise just to offer another

        14       insight on Senator Larkin's bill which I

        15       supported last year and I'm going to support

        16       again.

        17                      This bill steps us down the

        18       road to extending long-arm jurisdiction over

        19       these companies.  What it requires is the

        20       company be authorized to do business in New

        21       York.

        22                      I agree with Senator Leichter,

        23       that is, what are we going to do with the

        24       company in Hong Kong that's running an

        25       international gambling operation through the







                                                          1624

         1       Internet?

         2                      The answer is, I don't believe

         3       under this bill that we can go to Hong Kong

         4       and shut them down and enforce them, but what

         5       I think we ought to do -- this is a bill that

         6       begins the step down the road to redefining

         7       the minimum contacts under our long-arm

         8       statute so that if someone is victimized by

         9       fraud, they can sue in the New York courts and

        10       get jurisdiction.

        11                      What we'll have to do, and I

        12       think the part of the longer road to really

        13       achieve long-arm jurisdiction is to go back,

        14       look at the long-arm statute under the CPLR

        15       and redefine the concept of minimum contacts

        16       under International Shoe.  That doctrine is

        17       flexible enough in my judgment to accommodate

        18       the new transmission capabilities that are

        19       present that allow Internet gambling and my

        20       hope is at some point we'll look at the

        21       long-arm statute and say let's extend it

        22       further so that if you're an Internet

        23       operating company and the transaction, the

        24       sale transaction, the deposit of the money,

        25       the advancing of the money occurs in New York







                                                          1625

         1       State, New York State then has jurisdiction,

         2       as far as I'm concerned, any place on the

         3       planet to bring that person to the New York

         4       courts, sue them there, recover a judgment and

         5       then go and enforce it in Hong Kong,

         6       Pennsylvania or in the Bahamas.

         7                      Senator Larkin's bill doesn't

         8       accomplish all that yet.  I hope this is the

         9       first step to walk down that road.  I agree

        10       with Senator Leichter that it's a good idea

        11       perhaps to require them to obtain authority to

        12       do business in this state but there's no way

        13       to enforce it against the Hong Kong

        14       corporation unless we go to the next step.

        15                      I'll vote for it now, and I

        16       hope we get to the next step in the near

        17       future.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Leichter, why do you rise?

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        23       Dollinger would yield.  Senator Dollinger,

        24       isn't it a fact that long-arm jurisdiction

        25       does not -- or doing business to sustain







                                                          1626

         1       long-arm jurisdiction doesn't depend on

         2       whether this bill is passed or not?  A court

         3       could very -- let me finish the question.  A

         4       court could very well determine that by

         5       conducting a gambling operation through the

         6       Internet, you're doing business in New York

         7       State.  Doing business doesn't require -- and

         8       as you pointed out, while the state of New

         9       York could say gambling over the Internet is

        10       deemed to be doing business in the state of

        11       New York, that would require an amendment of

        12       the CPLR which this bill doesn't do.

        13                      So I question whether this bill

        14       in any way advances the test under the

        15       standard of doing business.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through

        17       you, Mr. President.  This does not

        18       specifically deal with the long-arm

        19       jurisdiction issue.  What this is, as I see

        20       it, is a first step to move down the road to

        21       addressing the long-arm jurisdiction issue,

        22       and I agree with you that the courts can

        23       interpret it currently to give New York State

        24       jurisdiction over Internet gambling companies

        25       wherever they are in the planet, but it would







                                                          1627

         1       be preferable if this Legislature gave

         2       guidance to the courts, expanded the scope of

         3       the long-arm statute by -- and legislative

         4       action, gave guidance to the courts as to what

         5       we intended and have the issue of whether

         6       we've gone too far challenged by some company

         7       from the Bahamas when we get jurisdiction, get

         8       a judgment and seek to enforce it some place

         9       else.  That's the way the system should work.

        10                      Again, I'm going to vote in

        11       favor of this bill.  I'm not convinced it's

        12       the total solution, but I think it steps us

        13       down the road a little bit, and I hope next

        14       year we'll look at the long-arm statute,

        15       expand the scope of jurisdiction so people who

        16       are victimized by these Internet gambling

        17       frauds will have a right of action here in New

        18       York, can sue here in New York, give their

        19       business to New York lawyers and then go

        20       enforce their judgments some place else.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Chair recognizes Senator Gold.

        23                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.

        24       President.

        25                      I would like Senator Larkin to







                                                          1628

         1       yield, but before that I would just like to

         2       point out my admiration for Senator Leichter

         3       who can smile about being wrong in a situation

         4       which is more than the Senator and our other

         5       colleagues do every time we're right for

         6       something that is unconstituional.  We never

         7       hear about that one.

         8                      I also have been looking around

         9       the room for Alice.  I haven't seen her.  I

        10       know we've entered Wonderland with this bill.

        11                      Senator Larkin, if you would

        12       yield to a question.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        14       Larkin, do you yield?

        15                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, there

        20       is a principle of law in the state of New York

        21       where we all happen to be standing which says

        22       that the law never requires a useless act.

        23       That's absolutely the law in this state.

        24                      You, by this law, are asking

        25       someone to file a document requesting







                                                          1629

         1       something that the law doesn't allow to be

         2       given.  Now, isn't that, in effect, passing a

         3       law mandating a useless act?

         4                      SENATOR LARKIN:  I think,

         5       Senator, if you take a step back and look at

         6       -- I would appreciate that.  You have a

         7       better view this way -- I would appreciate it

         8       if you would think of what we're trying to do,

         9       what has been discussed on the Internet, what

        10       everybody else has been saying.  There must be

        11       a way to get a handle on the issue.

        12                      We've talked to people in

        13       Washington.  We've talked to people at other

        14       states.  We talked to what is known as the

        15       "nickel states" that have the gambling that

        16       have experienced greater problems with this

        17       than New York has.  Other states are doing the

        18       same type of legislation and they're waiting

        19       on the federal government and what the states

        20       are trying to do is to get a handle on how -

        21       the impact on New York.  We are not telling

        22       them that gambling is the state's rights.  We

        23       are not forcing them.  We're letting them

        24       submit an application to the Secretary of

        25       State.







                                                          1630

         1                      SENATOR GOLD:  Which will be

         2       denied.

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  That's right,

         4       but the Secretary of State at that time will

         5       have that data so if we need something and we

         6       will hope that the federal government, with

         7       their Kyl bill, will come up with what we have

         8       been recommending to them to support us in New

         9       York State, then we will have some direct

        10       guidance.  In the meantime, we think we should

        11       move forward and try to control it, period.

        12                      SENATOR GOLD:  Will the

        13       gentleman yield to another question?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Larkin, do you continue to yield?  The Senator

        16       continues to yield.

        17                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I

        20       appreciate your interest in gambling and

        21       trying to control it or hold it down.  I think

        22       one of the most disgusting things is child

        23       pornography.  Why don't you put in a bill that

        24       says that if you want to go on the Internet

        25       from Alaska -- from the Orient with child







                                                          1631

         1       pornography, you have to apply to the

         2       Secretary of State in New York for corporate

         3       authorization?  Why don't you tell people if

         4       they want to commit interstate bank fraud that

         5       they've got to file with the Secretary of

         6       State and then you can say, Well, we're not

         7       going to give the child pornographer a license

         8       but now we're going to start getting a

         9       database because all these child pornographers

        10       reading the Larkin Law are going to start to

        11       send in their applications.  We won't give

        12       them a license, but we'll know who they are.

        13                      Senator, this is fairyland.  I

        14       mean it really is.  What are we talking about

        15       here?  If -- by the way, Senator -- on the

        16       bill, Mr. President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        18       Gold, on the bill.

        19                      SENATOR GOLD:  Senator, I heard

        20       about a week or so ago, I believe that the

        21       U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New

        22       York has indicted some of these off-shore

        23       people for gambling on the Internet, what

        24       you're talking about.

        25                      People have raised the issue in







                                                          1632

         1       that lawsuit as to whether or not the federal

         2       government has a right to go after these

         3       people who are in some ways beyond our

         4       jurisdiction but, Senator, the fact of the

         5       matter is that you, in your legislative

         6       background, have done some very good things.

         7       Many of us have done good things.  We do what

         8       we can do and we should be smart enough to

         9       understand what we can't do and leave it

        10       alone.

        11                      The concept of telling someone

        12       that they must file an application for

        13       something that we have no authority to grant

        14       because then we're going to have the names and

        15       addresses of everybody who filed the

        16       application is ludicrous.  It makes no sense.

        17       It's below our dignity.  People will read this

        18       and say we have lost our marbles, and I think

        19       you ought to withdraw the bill.

        20                      If there was any jurisdiction

        21       to control this, I would love to see it

        22       controlled.  I think that gambling should be

        23       controlled.  I'm not arguing that it's not a

        24       state function to control it.  I am arguing

        25       that in spite of our right to control it, that







                                                          1633

         1       we ought to have some personal pride in this

         2       chamber as to what we put on a piece of paper

         3       and, Senator Larkin, no one has better

         4       motivation than you.  No one is more sincere

         5       than you, but we can't do it, can't do it, and

         6       if you're home over the weekend and you're out

         7       to dinner with friends or whatever, your

         8       closest friends, you tell them that you put in

         9       a bill that requires people to apply for a

        10       license in New York that they can't get and

        11       you're collecting a database and in the

        12       privacy of having a drink or dinner with your

        13       friends, you get their reaction, because

        14       they're going to think we're all nuts.

        15                      I admire your attempt.  I

        16       admire your sensitivity to the issue, but this

        17       bill does nothing except, I think most

        18       respectfully, make us look a little not so

        19       brilliant.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is

        21       there any other Senator wishing to speak on

        22       the bill?

        23                      (There was no response.)

        24                      Hearing none, the Secretary

        25       will read the last section.







                                                          1634

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         2       This act shall take effect on the 90th day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the

         6       roll.)

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         8       the negatives and announce the results.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        10       in the negative on Calendar Number 340 are

        11       Senators Connor, Gold, Leichter, Paterson,

        12       Rosado and Waldon.  Ayes 47, nays 6.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      Senator Waldon, why do you

        16       rise?

        17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President,

        18       I was engaged in other Senate business when

        19       the house considered Calendar 305.  I'm

        20       advised through listening to your statements

        21       earlier that it's out of the house, but I

        22       would like the record to reflect that had I

        23       been here and had I had the opportunity, that

        24       I would have voted in the negative.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Would







                                                          1635

         1       you like unanimous consent to be recorded in

         2       the negative?

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  I'll be as

         4       smooth as you if I keep working at it, right?

         5       Yes, Mr. President.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         7       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

         8       Waldon will be recorded in the negative on

         9       Calendar Number 305.

        10                      The Secretary will continue to

        11       read the controversial calendar.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       377, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2848,

        14       an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        15       relation to establishing the town of

        16       Huntington Industrial Development Agency.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Marcellino, an explanation of Calendar Number

        20       377, Senate Print 2848, has been requested by

        21       Senator Paterson.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.  This bill amends the General

        24       Municipal Law by adding a new section, that

        25       would be Section 907 (d) to establish the town







                                                          1636

         1       of Huntington Industrial Development Agency in

         2       the county of Suffolk.

         3                      It has been introduced at the

         4       request and passed, by the way, by this house

         5       at the request of the town of Huntington Town

         6       Board, last year when the town board was under

         7       Republican control and this year again when

         8       the town board is under Democrat control.

         9       It's an effort by the town to provide more

        10       effective economic planning.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Paterson.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation

        14       satisfactory, excellent.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        16       is a home rule message at the desk.  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        19       This act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        21       the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the

        23       roll.)

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        25       the negatives.  Announce the results.







                                                          1637

         1                      Senator Paterson, to explain

         2       your vote?

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No, Mr.

         4       President.  I wanted to speak to you after the

         5       vote.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Okay.

         7       We'll conclude the roll call after the

         8       negatives are recorded.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        10       in the negative on Calendar Number 377 are

        11       Senators Leichter and Stachowski.  Ayes 51,

        12       nays 2.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        16       rise?

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        18       President, with unanimous consent, I would

        19       like to be recorded in the negative on

        20       Calendar Number 305 which escaped this chamber

        21       in a way that must have been faster than the

        22       speed of light.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        24       objection, we will quickly record Senator

        25       Paterson in the negative.







                                                          1638

         1                      Senator Gold, why do you rise?

         2                      SENATOR GOLD:  Mr. President, I

         3       would like unanimous consent to be recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar Number 305 which got

         5       out of this chamber almost as well as you

         6       putt.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         8       objection, record Senator Gold in the negative

         9       on Calendar Number 305.

        10                      Senator Holland.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  May we return

        12       to reports of standing committees.  I

        13       understand the Children and Families Committee

        14       report is available at the desk.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

        16       return to the order of reports of standing

        17       committees.

        18                      I'll ask the Secretary to

        19       read.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Saland,

        21       from the Committee on Children and Families,

        22       reports:

        23                      Senate Print 2379, by Senator

        24       Saland, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

        25       Law and others;







                                                          1639

         1                      5149, by Senator Skelos, an act

         2       to amend the Domestic Relations Law; and

         3                      5196, by Senator Saland, an act

         4       to amend the Social Services Law.

         5                      All bills ordered direct to

         6       third reading.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

         8       bills are ordered directly to third reading.

         9                      Senator Holland.

        10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr.

        11       President, could you recognize Senator

        12       Paterson.  I understand he has an

        13       announcement.  Is that true?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Paterson.

        16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        17       President, immediately after session, the

        18       Senate Minority will have a Democratic

        19       Conference in the conference room, Room 314 in

        20       the Capitol.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        22       Immediately after session -- immediately after

        23       session, there will be a Minority -

        24                      SENATOR ONORATO:  For the

        25       purpose of a search for Calendar 305.







                                                          1640

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Pardon

         2       -- excuse me just a minute, Senator Onorato.

         3       Without objection, we're going to search for

         4       305, right -- no.  There is a meeting of the

         5       Minority in the Minority Conference Room

         6       immediately after session, Room 314, and

         7       without objection, Senator Onorato will be

         8       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         9       305.  Okay.  You don't want to be recorded in

        10       the negative on Calendar Number 305?

        11                      SENATOR ONORATO:  No.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

        13       right.  Senator Holland, could we return to

        14       motions and resolutions.

        15                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        16       Rath.

        17                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President, I

        18       move that the following bill be discharged

        19       from committee and be recommitted with

        20       instructions to strike the enacting clause.

        21       It's item 3203-B, Senator Rath's bill.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        23       objection, the bill will be recommitted.

        24                      Senator Holland.

        25                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  No further







                                                          1641

         1       housekeeping?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's

         3       none.

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  There being

         5       no further business, I move we adjourn until

         6       Monday, March 16th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening

         7       days being legislative days.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

         9       objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

        10       Monday, March 16th, 3:00 p.m., intervening

        11       days to be legislative days.

        12                      (Whereupon, at 12:08 p.m., the

        13       Senate adjourned.)

        14

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        20