Regular Session - April 14, 1998
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 April 14, 1998
11 2:09 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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2624
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 take their places, staff to find their
5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to
6 rise and join me in saying the Pledge of
7 Allegiance to the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. )
10 In the absence of clergy, may
11 we bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed.)
14 Reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Monday, April 13th. The Senate met pursuant
17 to adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, April
18 12th, was read and approved. On motion,
19 Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Pres... Senator Bruno.
24 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
25 can we at this time call for an immediate
2625
1 meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
3 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance
4 Committee, immediate meeting of the Finance
5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
6 Room 332.
7 Presentation of petitions.
8 Messages from the Assembly.
9 Messages from the Governor.
10 Reports of standing
11 committees.
12 Reports of select committees.
13 Communications and reports from
14 state officers.
15 Commun... motions and
16 resolutions.
17 Chair recognizes Senator
18 Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUIS: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 On behalf of Senator Hannon,
22 Mr. President, I wish to call up his bill
23 Print Number 4433, recalled from the Assembly
24 which is now at the desk.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
2626
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
3 Hannon, Senate Print 4433, an act to amend the
4 Civil Service Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Libous.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
8 I now move to reconsider the vote by which
9 this bill was passed and ask that the bill be
10 restored to the order of third reading.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
12 Secretary will call the roll on
13 reconsideration.
14 (The Secretary called the roll
15 on reconsideration. )
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
20 I now move to recommit Senate Print 4433,
21 Calendar Number 174 on the order of third
22 reading, to the Committee on Civil Service and
23 Pensions with instructions to strike the
24 enacting clause.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is
2627
1 recommitted and the enacting clause stricken.
2 Senator Bruno.
3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
4 can we at this time adopt -- move to adopt the
5 Resolutions Calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 motion is to accept and adopt the Resolution
8 Calendar which is on all of the members'
9 desks. All those in favor of adopting the
10 Resolution Calendar signify by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 Opposed nay.
13 (There was no response. )
14 The Resolution Calendar is
15 adopted.
16 Senator Bruno.
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
18 can we stand at ease for a few moments pending
19 the report of the Finance Committee.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
21 will stand at ease pending the report of the
22 Senate Finance Committee.
23 (The Senate stood at ease from
24 2:13 p.m., until 2:35 p.m.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate
2628
1 will come to order. Members will find their
2 chairs, staff will find their chairs.
3 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.
4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
5 can we return to reports of standing
6 committees to adopt the report of the Finance
7 Committee.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return
9 to the order of the reports of standing
10 committees. There's a report of the Finance
11 Committee at the desk. I'll ask the Secretary
12 to read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Stafford, from the Committee on Finance,
15 reports the following bills directly for third
16 reading:
17 Senate Print 6094-B, Budget
18 Bill, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
19 Law;
20 6096-B, Budget Bill, an act in
21 relation to appropriations made by the chapter
22 of the laws of 1988, enacting the general
23 government budget;
24 Senate Print 6098-B, Budget
25 Bill, an act to amend Chapter 393 of the Laws
2629
1 of 1994;
2 Also restored the following
3 bills to third reading: Senate Print 6100-B,
4 Budget Bill, an act making appropriation for
5 the support of government (Legislature and
6 Judiciary Budget.)
7 6103-C, Budget Bill, an act
8 making appropriation for the support of
9 government; and
10 6105-C, Budget Bill, an act
11 making appropriation for the support of
12 government.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion
14 is to accept the report of the Finance
15 Committee. All those in favor signify by
16 saying aye.
17 (Response of "Aye.")
18 Opposed nay.
19 (There was no response. )
20 The report is accepted. All
21 bills ordered directly to third reading.
22 Senator Bruno.
23 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
24 I don't know whether members are around the
25 premises here celebrating the joyous occasion
2630
1 of passing a budget, but it strikes me that
2 the members ought to be somewhere within this
3 chamber, and, Mr. President, you might just
4 recommend that, that if members are
5 circulating that we're going to start a
6 process here in a few minutes and that they
7 really ought to be here in the chamber
8 participating in this process.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 President Pro Tem raises a very good point.
11 Senator Paterson, could you take it upon
12 yourself to get the members from your side of
13 the aisle in the chamber, and would the
14 Majority members please come to the chamber.
15 We're about to embark upon a historic process;
16 that's the adoption of the 1998-1999 budget.
17 Senator Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
19 President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would
21 you like the mike for the purpose of calling
22 your members to the chamber?
23 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, yes,
24 Mr. President. I see a lot of room down the
25 right field line, and I don't think I can
2631
1 cover it from over here, so -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would
3 you like their names read off, Senator
4 Paterson?
5 Senator Paterson, did you have
6 something more to say?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, no, Mr.
8 President, I was just moving.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Bruno, I see a large number of the members
11 have responded to your call and are present.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr.
13 President.
14 It is gratifying to see their
15 happy smiling faces here joining us in this
16 chamber and, Mr. President, my colleagues,
17 this should be a very happy occasion for the
18 people in this chamber and for the people of
19 this state.
20 We are today going to complete
21 the budget process for the year '98-99 for the
22 people of New York State, and we will be doing
23 this budget in a very timely way and, when I
24 say "timely," it's April 14th. That is very
25 timely.
2632
1 We can all reflect last year
2 when we set the third world's record in a row
3 for late budgets, and many of us in this
4 chamber at that time on August 4th, at
5 noontime, having gone through the night, vowed
6 that that process would never, ever happen
7 again in this state while we were involved in
8 the process.
9 Mr. President, my colleagues, I
10 am proud to say that we are doing this budget
11 in a timely way, in daylight. Hopefully in
12 this house we will be done by dinnertime, not
13 after midnight, not in the early hours of the
14 morning, and that's important and that's
15 something that all of us in this chamber and
16 in the other house, the Governor's office, can
17 take pride in, because we said last year never
18 again, and here we are, now making good on
19 that vow and that promise.
20 And, Mr. President, this
21 process over the years has had to change. We
22 have had casualties here in this chamber that
23 some people could say related to our process
24 of working through the night, working into the
25 morning. It was a very dangerous set of
2633
1 circumstances for people and for the public in
2 this state. Never should we legislate
3 anything as important as a budget past mid
4 night, in the early hours of the morning, when
5 many of us can't truly focus on the importance
6 of what we're doing, and relate to it.
7 So I thank all of you and
8 everyone, staff that have been involved in
9 this process that brings us here today, and
10 I'd like to comment on this first bill that
11 we'll take up today, which I believe is the
12 third bill that we will have passed and take
13 up that relates to the budget, and it will be
14 the first of six bills today.
15 This bill, as we call it up and
16 start completing the budget process, relates
17 to tax cuts, relates to the STAR program, and
18 if we have done anything over the last several
19 years with the leadership of Governor George
20 Pataki, who three years ago became Governor
21 and recognized that $5 billion deficit that we
22 all inherited, that he inherited, was due
23 primarily to the failure of this state to
24 compete with other states for jobs, in
25 economic development and in growth, and in
2634
1 three years all of that has changed, for New
2 York now does not lag in job creation, not
3 50th in job creation, and depending on where
4 you look we are like sixth, eighth, in
5 creating jobs.
6 The fact of the matter is there
7 are those that would detract from that
8 statement. I have heard in this chamber, Hal
9 Hovey quoted, who does the newspaper relating
10 to budgets, the editor. This was reprinted,
11 New York Post, I believe one of my colleagues
12 referred to this, and I want to refer to it
13 again because what this basically concludes
14 for the people of this state, and this
15 information is that yes, New York State has
16 done a lot, but we have a lot more to do, and
17 this points out that, while we have gained on
18 the rest of the country, we have not won the
19 race, and we still spend too much and we tax
20 too much at every level.
21 Now, we are moving again today
22 to correct that, to move New York State
23 forward, to make us competitive, and there
24 isn't anything that is more important than
25 helping people get employed, stay employed,
2635
1 and you only do that when you allow companies
2 and the professions to compete in what is a
3 worldwide market, and for anyone that doesn't
4 understand that, talk to someone that lost
5 their job because their company had to move to
6 Tennessee or to Virginia or to Ohio or to
7 Europe or to Mexico. Talk to those families
8 when people are in their 50s and in their 60s,
9 and they can't find a job. Why? Because New
10 York State was not competitive.
11 We are now gaining in the
12 country, and that's why it is imperative that
13 we have joined with the Governor, with the
14 Speaker, in a tax package today that we will
15 pass, that will allow seniors in this state to
16 keep $527 million of their pension money, of
17 their Social Security money, that they don't
18 have to spend this year on property taxes.
19 Now, think of that. Think of
20 people on fixed income being able to keep that
21 much money collectively, and what this does
22 for their life, for the quality of their life
23 and what it does in the community for all of
24 the people that participate as they spend that
25 money.
2636
1 Think about us dropping a
2 corporate tax rate for the first time in
3 anyone's memory from 9 percent to 7.5 percent,
4 helping make companies in this state
5 competitive with our neighbors, with states
6 across the country. That's how you keep jobs;
7 that's how you grow jobs.
8 The investment tax credit for
9 the financial community, people have said and
10 it's written that the financial community is
11 driving the revenue that we are enjoying in
12 this state, and a lot of that is true.
13 Why don't we want to recognize
14 that that's a fact and support that industry,
15 and this bill that we will pass will
16 incorporate tax credits for computers and high
17 tech' equipment to allow those industries to
18 be here, compete here, and not have to move to
19 back offices, to the Dakotas and to Nevada and
20 to Tennessee and to New Hampshire, because
21 it's cheaper for them to do that. This helps
22 keep jobs here and grow jobs.
23 When you look at the securities
24 industry, you will see there's been like 49
25 percent growth in jobs. New York has not
2637
1 participated. We have gained like in the last
2 few years a thousand jobs a year, while the
3 rest of the country has gained tens of
4 thousands. We are doing something about
5 that. We're not wringing our hands; we are
6 doing something about that, and that's in this
7 bill and, Mr. President, this bill totals over
8 $743 million, plus the 527 million for the
9 STAR program to accelerate the senior property
10 tax cuts.
11 It has cuts for small business,
12 about $170 million worth, and we all know that
13 small businesses employ the great percentage
14 of people who are just starting in the work
15 force, and it's critically important that we
16 help small businesses become medium-sized
17 businesses and big businesses, and we're doing
18 that here this afternoon.
19 So I want to just congratulate
20 everyone in this chamber because you
21 participated. You are making history. For
22 the first time in this state ever, we are
23 passing a budget that is done through a system
24 that has involved almost the entire membership
25 in a conference committee approach in
2638
1 cooperation and coordination with the
2 Governor, in recognition that the Governor
3 submitted a program bill to establish
4 conference committees so that we could get our
5 work done in a more effective and efficient
6 way, and all of us know that we have been in
7 constant communication with the Governor's
8 office. For those that think that this
9 process was isolated, it was not.
10 Now, are we in agreement, all
11 of us, on everything that we're doing?
12 Certainly not. Is there any way in this state
13 or in the world that you could get 211
14 legislators to agree on everything, and the
15 Executive to agree on everything? I think not;
16 and if any of you can devise a way to do that,
17 please share it with us and we will again
18 promise to incorporate that into the planning
19 towards next year.
20 So while everyone isn't totally
21 satisfied with what we're doing, you should
22 take great comfort and pride in that we have
23 met the requirements for a lot of people in
24 this state and that what we are doing now will
25 truly be a credit to us, to the Executive, in
2639
1 the Assembly and to all of the people of this
2 state, and I want to just conclude my comments
3 to thank the Governor and the people in the
4 Budget Division who had to move into a new
5 process with us, and learn this process with
6 us, and they were there and they were helpful
7 and they were responsive and, with this
8 Governor, we are going to continue through '98
9 to set the tone, to set the pace for the rest
10 of the country so that New York State will be
11 looked upon as it is now and recognized truly
12 as a leader in the world economy and that we
13 can take pride in being part of all the good
14 things that are happening to make this truly
15 the Empire State.
16 Thank you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Bruno, would you like us to put Calendar
19 Number 614, Senate 6094 before the house now?
20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr.
21 President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
23 Secretary will read.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 614, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6094-B, an act
2640
1 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
2 relation to the school property tax exemption
3 for eligible senior citizens.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is
5 before the house.
6 Chair recognizes Senator
7 Connor.
8 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you -
9 thank you, Mr. President.
10 My colleagues, here we are on
11 April 14th. It's not exactly on time, but it
12 sure beats August 4th, and you know, you get
13 some awareness of how long as a Legislature
14 we've been remiss with this budget process,
15 and the Executive also, when this morning my
16 eight-year-old said, "Dad, where are you
17 going?" I said, you know, to Albany. We're
18 doing the budget today. He said, "Budget!
19 We're not at the seashore," because
20 unfortunately in his lifetime most of the
21 times we've done a budget he was out of school
22 and it was summertime, and so it's certainly
23 an improvement over these past years.
24 The process itself, Mr.
25 President, far from perfect, as I have pointed
2641
1 out on occasion, taking my role as Minority...
2 my institutional role as Minority Leader
3 seriously, is a far better system than we've
4 had in the past, and I'm optimistic about what
5 it portends for the future because I think we
6 will make it better in future years. I think
7 the process will start earlier, the members
8 will be more familiar with it, and it will
9 indeed be proven to be the best way to make a
10 budget in New York State.
11 We oughtn't be shocked at that,
12 Mr. President, because, believe it or not,
13 it's fundamentally the system used in most,
14 small "d", democratic societies and states in
15 this nation -- conference committees, open
16 committees, and an open discussion of budget
17 issues and, as we confront all of these bills,
18 and you know, there's the usual big stack of
19 bills, I can't make the usual complaint that,
20 Gee, I haven't had a chance to read them. I
21 don't know what's in them. I know what's in
22 them. The members have had a chance to read
23 them. They've been on the desks for at least
24 three days, but indeed, the process of
25 building these bills has been going on for
2642
1 weeks now, and we had an opportunity to know
2 what was fundamentally in the Senate's version
3 of it when we passed that version a few weeks
4 ago. We then all had an opportunity to see
5 where the Assembly's version differed, and
6 then many of us on conference committees and
7 indeed all the members -- because I would say
8 now and I know it's true in every conference
9 in this Capitol -- those who were on the
10 conference committees certainly reported back
11 to their conferences as to what the major
12 differences were and ultimately how they were
13 reconciled.
14 So there is something to be
15 said for that public process in the fact that,
16 lo and behold, I stand here looking at my
17 colleagues who were better informed, I dare
18 say, about what's in this budget than has been
19 the case in this Legislature for some years
20 now with respect to the average member, and
21 that's good.
22 And the public knows what's in
23 this budget. That's even better, and they
24 understand how it was formed. They understand
25 compromises, the essence of budget making. I
2643
1 think people can see where the compromises
2 occurred, and can evaluate that as they ought
3 to and hold the Legislature accountable.
4 We've done some great things in
5 this budget, I believe. We've upheld some
6 fundamental New York values, values that I'm
7 proud to say my conference has stood for. We
8 will be funding education at record levels.
9 We will be making that commitment to the
10 future of this state. We will be, as Senator
11 Bruno pointed out, cutting taxes. That's a
12 good thing. Not exactly the exact taxes we
13 wanted to cut, but certainly tax cuts of any
14 sort are better than no tax cuts in terms of
15 helping the people of the state of New York
16 prosper.
17 One thing I -- Senator Bruno
18 said that, you know, New York under Governor
19 Pataki in talking about job creation has,
20 depending on where you look, either is sixth
21 or eighth in the country in creating new
22 jobs. I would say, Mr. President, regrettably
23 that New York, depending on where you live, is
24 either sixth or eighth in creating jobs or
25 near dead last because we do have a state
2644
1 that's almost a "tale of two cities" if you
2 will. We have the downstate area, an economy,
3 an economic engine driven by the prosperity of
4 Wall Street that's benefited New York City and
5 its suburbs and indeed its neighboring states
6 down there, New Jersey and Connecticut, by
7 creating jobs, creating wealth, creating
8 enormous spin-off jobs in everything from
9 restaurants to limousine drivers, and we have
10 an upstate economy that continues to lag
11 behind the rest of the state and the rest of
12 the nation. We have upstaters who are fearful
13 for their jobs who still watch the flight of
14 jobs from their cities and towns and who are
15 not quite so sanguine about the future of this
16 state.
17 We have done, I think, some
18 things in this budget to promote the economic
19 development and make creation of jobs,
20 retention of jobs in those areas more
21 attractive, but I fear that under this
22 Governor, this state has failed to address the
23 concerns of upstaters about the future of -
24 their future, the future of their families and
25 the ability of their children to make a living
2645
1 and live in that part of the state where
2 they've grown up.
3 Indeed, we find those 50-year
4 olds that Senator Bruno alluded to, without
5 jobs, fearful, wondering where they're going
6 to get their next job. So hopefully we've
7 done a small thing here to correct that
8 problem. I wish we could say that the success
9 which the current administration points to
10 over the last three and a half years in
11 creating jobs applied throughout the state,
12 but it does not.
13 That said, Mr. President,
14 certainly we as legislators ought to be proud
15 that we've embraced a new system. I
16 congratulate the Majority Leader and the
17 Speaker for their role in having the courage
18 really to set forth this new way of making
19 budgets. I suspect on both of their parts a
20 little bit of self-interest because I know
21 them both well enough to know that they didn't
22 really have a lot of fun when they were three
23 men in a room working with a budget. I think
24 they have had more fun this year not being in
25 that room with two other men and the whole
2646
1 state watching them and sweating away in a hot
2 July saying, Where is the budget?
3 But we have launched this new
4 process. I think it will be a good one. I'm
5 delighted that it was a Governor Pataki
6 program bill, but I would point out that once
7 upon a time in 1988, there was a reform task
8 force put forth by the Senate Democratic
9 Conference in this house which called for
10 conference committees and conference
11 committees to reconcile the budget. It just
12 goes to show you, Mr. President, that
13 occasionally a good idea just gets so
14 irresistible, particularly given the failings
15 of the old system, that it doesn't matter who
16 first ventured to come forth with it. It
17 eventually has its day, and this has begun to
18 have its day. I know it will have even better
19 days in future years.
20 So, Mr. President, on balance,
21 disappointments in this budget, a few; things
22 I'm delighted about, certainly what we're
23 doing for education, what we're doing for
24 construction for education, the RESCUE plan,
25 these are great achievements and on balance,
2647
1 therefore, I'm delighted to support this
2 budget and will be voting for it.
3 Thank you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
5 recognizes Senator Goodman.
6 SENATOR GOODMAN: As you're
7 aware, Mr. President, I've spent 30 years of
8 my life in the process of the Legislature, and
9 I must say something very different has
10 occurred this year.
11 In a nut shell, the era of
12 blindman's buff budgeting has finally come to
13 a close. No longer do we have a situation in
14 which we as legislators have literally blind
15 folds upon us until the sudden moment when a
16 budget is released some time between midnight
17 and 3:00 a.m. We're asked to consider it and
18 adopt it in an atmosphere of absolute lack of
19 specifics and an inability to really
20 comprehend what it is we're doing.
21 I submit to you that this kind
22 of buffoonery had to come to an end and I want
23 to just say that, in his very gracious
24 distribution of credit to the members, Senator
25 Bruno neglected to mention one crucial part of
2648
1 this, and that is the role which our
2 leadership played in bringing this to pass.
3 Let me just say very briefly,
4 Mr. President, that in instructing the
5 Conference co-chairmen on the approach that he
6 wanted them to take in bringing about the new
7 conferencing procedures, Senator Bruno
8 stressed three -- the three Cs, the
9 conferencing, collegiality and the essential
10 compromise approach which had to be taken.
11 Conference, collegiality and compromise.
12 He did not say to go in and
13 squeeze the last drop of blood from the
14 negotiation, but he said go in with an
15 attitude that what we must attempt to do is to
16 bring about an understanding and make
17 absolutely certain that we do not let the
18 budget go until the month of July or August.
19 Let me just say that this was
20 indelibly printed on my mind last August when
21 we were celebrating a family anniversary and
22 we were in Alaska, and upon landing in Anchor
23 age I was suddenly informed that the slow,
24 strenuous, secretive budget process had
25 finally ground to a halt and that we would be
2649
1 voting on the budget the next day; so in a
2 rather unique dash to be back in time to vote
3 I went from Anchorage, Alaska to Los Angeles,
4 from Los Angeles to Cincinnati, from
5 Cincinnati to Albany, on an all-night flight
6 and on the last leg of the flight, a lady came
7 on the plane who was absolutely hysterical.
8 She and her husband had been arguing. She
9 didn't not wish to be on this plane.
10 Since my -- the seat next to
11 mine in a three-row was the last one on the
12 plane, I had the privilege in addition to
13 wondering what was going to happen in the
14 budget to try and play amateur psychiatrist
15 and quiet her down. I did so with a simple
16 artifice. I tried to explain to her the
17 budgetary process I was going back to work
18 in. She was so horrified to hear about it
19 that her plight in coming on a plane which she
20 had no desire to be on was mollified and she
21 was distracted and everything went swimmingly
22 from that point on, and I said, My God, I hope
23 I never have to take a flight like this again
24 and, Senator Bruno, I want to thank you for
25 making it possible for that not to occur, and
2650
1 to say to you, sir, that I think you and
2 Senator Connor, certainly Speaker Silver and
3 Assemblyman Faso are all deserving of great
4 credit, but in particular, if I may, at the
5 risk of needing an orthopedist for
6 congratulatory back-slapping to get my arm
7 back in its socket, let me just say that I
8 think you deserve very special credit for the
9 spirit and the underlying approach which you
10 conveyed to each of the members on this side
11 as we went through this very tortuous and
12 difficult but most improved process.
13 I salute you, sir, for an
14 absolutely revolutionary and significant step
15 forward in the democratic process.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Leichter.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
19 President, I'd like to talk about Senate Bill
20 6094-B.
21 Let me say, Senator Bruno, you
22 are extremely eloquent. The problem is you're
23 a person who's standing with the sun rising
24 behind him in the east who's arguing that the
25 sun rises in the west.
2651
1 I mean, when I still hear you
2 on this floor pulling out these discredited
3 job figures, I really wonder, do you believe
4 them? Do you think anybody believes them?
5 Senator Bruno, you get up and you say we're
6 sixth in job growth. You know what you're
7 comparing us to? You know what it's like?
8 It's like a major league team bragging because
9 they can beat a Little League team -- no, not
10 a Little League team, a Peewee League team.
11 Senator you're bragging that
12 New York State, under George Pataki, created
13 more jobs than Rhode Island; and you know
14 what? More than Montana. More than North
15 Dakota, in fact more than the two Dakotas
16 together, but the fact is, Senator, that when
17 you do it on the only meaningful way of
18 considering job growth, which is per capita,
19 we're 46th or 47th.
20 The Pataki program has been a
21 failure, and I read off to you last time
22 figures that you accepted and you had to
23 accept because they were accurate, that our
24 job growth is far below that of all of our
25 neighboring states, Senator, that our job
2652
1 unemployment figures are far above the
2 national average or that of any of our
3 neighboring states.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Leichter.
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'll be
7 happy to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 yields.
10 SENATOR BRUNO: Will Senator
11 Leichter yield to one question?
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 yields.
15 SENATOR BRUNO: When you ask
16 who are we comparing with? We are comparing
17 with Mario Cuomo, when -- (applause) when this
18 state in his years, in the last few years lost
19 600,000-plus jobs. We're not comparing to the
20 other states. We're comparing -- look it up,
21 Senator, look it up -- 600-and-some thousand
22 jobs. 50th in job creation. That's who we're
23 comparing with. I thought you were asking me
24 a question. I felt compelled to answer.
25 Thank you, Mr. President.
2653
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Leichter, you have the floor.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I may
4 answer the Majority Leader, Senator, you're
5 still being very eloquent, and you're still
6 arguing the sun rises in the west and
7 everybody can see it's rising in the east.
8 I'm glad we're taking Mario
9 Cuomo off the shelf and dusting him off now
10 that it's a gubernatorial election year and
11 you're going to run against Mario Cuomo, but,
12 Senator, the figures that I'm giving you are
13 since January of 1995, during just the
14 three-year period. Forget Mario Cuomo. We're
15 starting now, this is -- this is A.C., after
16 Cuomo -- if you take -- if you take those
17 three years, the nation's unemployment rate
18 during those three years went from 5.4 percent
19 to 4.7 percent.
20 Every northeastern state but
21 New York showed dramatic improvement in their
22 unemployment situation, and now there's a
23 difference between the New York State
24 unemployment and the national unemployment
25 which far exceeds the gap that existed in
2654
1 Mario Cuomo's last years. It's also important
2 to note, Senator Bruno that Mario Cuomo was
3 Governor at a time of a national recession.
4 Yes, New York State lost jobs, but
5 proportionate to the rest of the nation, we
6 didn't lose as many jobs as we are now failing
7 to gain jobs in relation to the rest of the
8 nation.
9 What's worrisome about New York
10 State's economic situation is that we are now
11 at what is a boom period and we are not
12 creating the jobs. We're not competitive.
13 We're not doing well, and I submit to you that
14 one of the reasons that we're not doing well
15 is because of the tax policies that have been
16 pursued by this administration and tax
17 policies that are enshrined in this particular
18 bill.
19 This is an irresponsible bill.
20 First of all, we don't have the money, we
21 don't have the money to provide these sort of
22 tax cuts. The fact that we have any surplus
23 this year is due to the very extraordinary
24 boom time in Wall Street that everyone -- that
25 everyone says cannot continue. We are looking
2655
1 at deficits down the line of billions of
2 dollars.
3 I asked the distinguished
4 Secretary of the Senate Finance Committee what
5 the projected deficit was for next year. He
6 said 1.8, but I see a figure here from the
7 Fiscal Policy Institute that is probably over
8 $3 billion.
9 So that, one, we don't have the
10 money to do it, to make these tax cuts.
11 That's not to say that our taxes in this state
12 are at a right level. They ought to be
13 brought down, but what we need is to create a
14 smarter tax system, a fairer tax system, and
15 what unfortunately this bill does to some
16 extent at least is to create a more irrational
17 tax system and a tax system that economically
18 makes even less sense. I want to pick on two
19 particular aspects that disturb me.
20 One is, which I think is
21 probably the most unjustified, unwarranted,
22 most foolish tax cut ever enacted, is to have
23 a 50 million investment tax credit for the
24 Wall Street investment firms, and Senator
25 Bruno says that's going to create jobs, it's
2656
1 going to keep jobs here.
2 First of all, the Wall Street
3 firms have enjoyed enormous record profits. I
4 have some of the figures here of what these
5 firms have done in these last -- in these last
6 years. Merrill Lynch last year had revenues
7 of over $31 billion, profits were 1 billion
8 906 million -- hundred million dollars, 27
9 percent increase in its profits in 1997 from
10 1996 -- 1996. Morgan Stanley/Dean Witter,
11 revenues $27 billion, profits were over
12 $2,500,000,000. The percent change, the
13 increase in profits, was over 200 percent.
14 Now, these firms are doing
15 extremely well. These are firms that don't
16 need to put their hands into the state's
17 taxpayers and take money.
18 Secondly, there's no proof
19 whatsoever that providing an investment tax
20 credit for these firms is going to, one,
21 increase any jobs because, by and large, these
22 are industries that are decreasing
23 employment. They're doing it because of
24 technology, and they're going to do that
25 whether we give them an investment tax credit
2657
1 or not.
2 Thirdly, Senator Bruno says,
3 well, they haven't been increasing jobs.
4 That's absolutely true. In spite of these
5 record profits, these firms do not create many
6 jobs, again because of the technology and the
7 nature of that business. So why would you
8 conceivably want to invest monies in those
9 industries that aren't creating jobs, that
10 have record profits, that have the means
11 certainly to pay for their own technological
12 advances? It's pure and simple a give-away.
13 Whether it's driven by poor economic theory or
14 whether it's driven by campaign contributions,
15 I don't know, but it is unquestionably the
16 most foolish tax that this Legislature has
17 ever enacted. Totally, absolutely
18 unjustified.
19 The other aspect of this tax
20 cut which is unjustified is the reduction in
21 the corporate tax rate. Now, we've reduced in
22 the past the corporate tax rate, and right now
23 corporate tax revenues are a smaller and
24 smaller percentage of the total revenues that
25 we raise in New York State. It's absolutely
2658
1 not true, one, that the corporations of this
2 state are overtaxed. Secondly, it's not true
3 that that -- that those taxes in some ways
4 make the state less competitive economically.
5 I don't think you could find one sound
6 economist, one sound businessman, who is going
7 to say the reason that we're not as active
8 economically or businesswise in New York State
9 is because of the high rate of corporate
10 taxes. They're not high in this state and
11 they're certainly not high when you take a
12 look at the total amount of money that is
13 collected.
14 There certainly are some taxes
15 that we could get rid of, things that we could
16 do as far as infrastructure, things -- more
17 things that we could do in education. There
18 are things that we could do in getting rid of
19 the gross receipts tax, and we made a small
20 reduction in that, I believe it was last
21 year. We could certainly do more of that, but
22 the across-the-board reduction in the
23 corporate tax makes no sense whatsoever.
24 So, far from helping to
25 strengthen the state economically, this bill
2659
1 is going to weaken the state financially.
2 It's going to make it harder next year to have
3 a budget that's going to serve the needs of
4 the people of New York State. It's going to
5 give the "fat cats" gifts that -- for which
6 there's no reason whatsoever, and I think what
7 we will see is that New York State will
8 continue as it has been under the Pataki years
9 not to be creating jobs, and I want to say
10 that the problem of high unemployment is not
11 just upstate.
12 Senator Connor was certainly
13 correct that the upstate economy is in serious
14 trouble, but in New York City we have an
15 unemployment rate that is about 9.5 percent.
16 So there are many parts of this state that are
17 doing very poorly, and this tax cut enacted in
18 this bill is certainly not going to help
19 them.
20 I think there are things that
21 you could find in this tax cut that maybe you
22 can support and the STAR program, I would
23 certainly like to support, but I'm not going
24 to vote for a bill that gives $50 million to
25 the most profitable industry in the whole
2660
1 country at a time when we could that that $50
2 million and use it so much better.
3 Let me just finally say I'm
4 amused when Senator Bruno talks about the free
5 market economy, and so on. Senator, the free
6 market economy works without statism. You're
7 really the -- one of the -- in your enthusiasm
8 in supporting these companies really one of
9 the biggest statism economic theorists that we
10 have of having the state interfere, having the
11 state decide and influence the markets.
12 We go to the Russians and we
13 say, you've got to stop subsidizing industry.
14 You've got to stop giving monies to industry.
15 It's wrong. The World Bank tells them that.
16 The IMF tells them that, but what you want to
17 do right here in New York State is the very
18 thing that we criticize the Russians and some
19 of the other emerging countries for doing,
20 which is having the state subsidize certain
21 industries, and if you're going to subsidize
22 industries, this is certainly the wrong
23 industry to subsidize.
24 So let me just say we can
25 commend ourselves for maybe the process,
2661
1 because we've certainly improved it, although
2 in some respects reminds me of a sinner who,
3 you know, goes and for the first time shows a
4 little penitence and then goes around bragging
5 and claims that he's a saint, you know. I
6 think we've got a long way to go in making
7 this a truly effective and a fair process.
8 I'm mindful of the fact, for
9 instance, that on the conference committees
10 there were four Majority members to every
11 member of the Minority, which doesn't reflect
12 the ratio and the proportion that we have here
13 in this chamber, and certainly -- and
14 certainly the two leaders continued to make
15 decisions often in disregard of the
16 committees, but without question, I think
17 we've started on a path that's going to make
18 this a more open process. Certainly it will
19 be more democratic, and certainly it's
20 commendable, Senator Bruno, and I do commend
21 you for the fact that we're not doing this in
22 the middle of the night, and I want to commend
23 you because you did start the process of the
24 conference committees, and I think it's an
25 important step, but I think that we all ought
2662
1 to recognize that we have so much further to
2 go, and let me also say that the final test is
3 really going to be the work product that we
4 come up with.
5 To my mind, nobody is going to
6 praise this budget. This budget is only going
7 to further enshrine New York State as having
8 one of the most irresponsible budgets, and
9 we're going to continue to see that our credit
10 rating is going to be tied for last with
11 Louisiana. If you want to brag about that,
12 Senator Bruno, brag about the fact that our
13 credit rating is on the same level as
14 Louisiana. This sort of budget, this sort of
15 bill, will just ensure that the credit raters
16 are going to look at us and say, These people
17 are irresponsible.
18 This particular bill, certainly
19 those aspects that I pointed out to you are
20 irresponsible. We should not brag about
21 passing this bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Marchi.
24 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
25 under old Jewish law, a unanimous verdict was
2663
1 not acceptable. You had to have at least one
2 dissent, because something might have been
3 missed; and Senator Leichter, with his
4 customary zeal and enthusiasm, and I believe
5 in a sincere belief in what he said, advanced
6 a critique of the public policies, or at least
7 some of them. He sort of concluded on a more
8 optimistic note, but nevertheless that was the
9 one point, the one dissent, that in my
10 estimation gave us a guarantee that the larger
11 wisdom of people who are experiencing the
12 contact of one to one around the state, feel
13 that we are headed in the right direction.
14 It was not only the policy, Mr.
15 President, as much, or as important as this
16 is. There isn't a nation on earth such as the
17 United States where a single hairpin is made
18 by the government. We assign economic
19 generation to the private sector, and it has
20 to be equitably addressed, and we can argue
21 and differ on that point. It should have a
22 social conscience; otherwise, we're back in
23 Brazil somewhere, with the very rich and the
24 very poor. There has to be a fundamental base
25 of decency for the inhabitants of this
2664
1 country. We have to speak to every American,
2 not just to some of them, and the best way to
3 achieve that, Mr. President, is not in the
4 discredited economics followed by a bankrupt
5 east -- east nations of Europe, and also the
6 struggling economies of Europe itself.
7 They're having -- France is
8 having tremendous difficulties with their
9 heavy taxes. It's true of Benelux; it's true
10 of Italy. It's true of virtually every
11 country that I can think of, where they simply
12 have not greened out, and they have not
13 stepped into and approached the new millenium
14 that is on the horizon; and then you have this
15 American experience.
16 And how do we serve this state
17 best? We serve it best by maximizing those
18 very principles that gives this life -- this
19 country life. As important as all of this is
20 -- and I think great -- we have to assign -
21 Senator Bruno assigned a collective support,
22 the collective support that has been given as
23 a collective wisdom, a collective wisdom.
24 This is an institution, no matter how you
25 vote, for or against. I would hope you vote
2665
1 for, but being part of this movement and this
2 motion has added everyone makes a
3 contribution.
4 But what is equally important,
5 of equal importance with the economic aspects
6 of economic rejuvenation, of creativity, of
7 job creation, of all those factors which give
8 life to a state and we are, if we start from
9 higher levels, you know, you can compare the
10 states and say that, Oh, we've given 50
11 million, I forget Franz told me, but you
12 realize that this is still the most heavily
13 taxed nation by any statistical abstract,
14 although we are making giant strides in
15 narrowing and closing that gap, without
16 sacrificing those human concerns, those social
17 concerns, which are broad and manifest.
18 But what's of equal importance
19 is also the process by which we arrive here.
20 This is unheralded. I've been here over 40
21 years. I have never seen anything like this
22 either in terms of 90 legislators, in a very
23 intimate way, in a sharing fashion, in a
24 discussion -- objective discussion of concrete
25 issues as I've seen this time. Ninety, and
2666
1 that proliferated as that went out through the
2 various committees and people that were
3 affected by that.
4 And this sunshine on the whole
5 process, I think major credit cannot be denied
6 to Senator Bruno. This is major sunshine that
7 is irreversible. If we do anything, we're
8 going to take stock. We're going to take
9 inventory of what we've done. Some say the
10 numbers are -- we started late. Yeah, we
11 started late because the self-starter went
12 into terra incognita -- terra incognita, for
13 the natives' way of saying it.
14 This is new country, and we're
15 blazing new trails, and certainly we're going
16 to examine and re-examine that which has
17 happened in those areas which can be shored up
18 and give greater visibility and maximize their
19 opportunity to further this process, and I
20 think part of that is also -- you say, Aaah,
21 we're late again with the budget. Budgets
22 were adopted with a constitutional deadline in
23 times when farmers were coming here for the
24 winter. There wasn't much they could do
25 outside, so they did that.
2667
1 This is an extremely complex
2 process, and unless we make adjustments -- and
3 it's very difficult to unravel once you've
4 gone through this pain. A lot of things and
5 relationships, we are interdependent. There
6 are school years; there are federal years;
7 there are factors that were well suited to
8 their times, but all of these factors have to
9 be weighed very carefully. But we are out in
10 the sunshine. It's a public process, and I
11 cannot see how we can do anything else but
12 rejoice at the point that we have arrived at.
13 I feel very confident that this
14 is going to advance the well-being and the
15 welfare of the people of this state, and we
16 can take joy and pride, voting as you please
17 with your conscience, but you all made a
18 contribution to this result, and the same
19 thing can be said for the other hall down at
20 the other end, where up until recently it was
21 sort of like an enemy country or something.
22 Everyone harnessed to the same effort with the
23 same objective. Everyone prompted by the same
24 ideals.
25 This is a spiritually up
2668
1 lifting effort, and we can all feel proud that
2 we are here today addressing these issues as
3 they should have been addressed perhaps many
4 times over the past.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Waldon.
7 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
8 much, Mr. President.
9 My colleagues, I'll be brief.
10 I'm very pleased to have participated in this
11 budgetary process this year. It was
12 reminiscent of something I had on a very
13 limited basis experienced in Washington as a
14 member of the House of Representatives, and I
15 applaud our leadership in constructing it so
16 that we could each feel that somehow, even if
17 it was just a small thumbprint, our thumb
18 print was on this process.
19 In all of my previous years in
20 the Assembly and in the Senate, I recognize
21 that through our conversations and colloquy,
22 the leaders -- our respective leaders
23 participated in a very small or smaller
24 setting than this chamber and exchanged ideas
25 and somehow a budget evolved from that.
2669
1 However, this time I know that it was not just
2 three persons in a room with staff, but it was
3 the collective 211 which had something to say
4 about the destiny of New York State and the
5 road map by which we will govern and by which
6 we will distribute resources, and I'm very
7 pleased to have participated in that.
8 I think we will never see
9 governing or budgets or participation in the
10 process as it once was, that we're striking
11 out for a new horizon, that we will all be
12 better for it but, most importantly, that the
13 people of the state of New York will be better
14 for our being able to work in this very fine
15 process.
16 So let me personally thank our
17 Majority Leader Senator Bruno, our Minority
18 Leader Senator Connor and Speaker Silver and
19 Assemblyman, the new Minority Leader in his
20 house, Faso and the Governor. I think it was
21 a brilliant move for us to all be allowed to
22 participate in this process, and even though
23 you may not hear us say it so openly in these
24 halls but in private, some of my colleagues
25 have told me yes, I feel good about what we're
2670
1 doing now.
2 So I applaud the leadership for
3 letting us feel good about what we're doing.
4 Thank you very much, Mr.
5 President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
7 recognizes Senator Hoffmann.
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. Thank
9 you, Mr. President.
10 I listened with some amazement
11 when Senator Leichter first stepped up to the
12 plate and thought perhaps I had missed sunset
13 because it sounded like we were back in a
14 post-midnight hour once again, and I have to
15 take exception. I think Senator Leichter was
16 much too tough on Senator Bruno. This is a
17 day on which we can all offer great praise to
18 the Majority Leader of this Senate.
19 As one who has been a vocal
20 critic of this chamber and the other chamber
21 for the last 14 years, I feel very proud today
22 that we have made this extremely important
23 step into a new era. The New York State
24 Legislature has been likened by some to a
25 feudal kingdom some place in eastern Europe
2671
1 shortly after the discovery of fire but before
2 the invention of the wheel.
3 Our spoils system and the very,
4 very partisan kingdom-like attitudes have been
5 a hindrance to the role of government as it
6 should be manifested relative to the needs of
7 the people of this state. It is the people of
8 this state who, in fact, are treated like
9 peasants when some of the members of either
10 house of the Legislature are treated like
11 serfs or vassals, and I think that we are now
12 at a point, having tried this important
13 experiment, where we could see in the future a
14 meaningful process evolve from the very
15 beginning of our session, one that would allow
16 each of the committees which are resplendant
17 with many, many gifted people, with great
18 knowledge in areas of study -- some of us have
19 been here for decades; people like Senator
20 Marchi have wisdom from -- from ages in which
21 to offer. Senator Marchi can quote references
22 in literature in at least three languages. We
23 have other colleagues who have lived through
24 unique eras of this country's history and are
25 familiar with important activities in other
2672
1 parts of the world that would have some
2 bearing on our deliberations. Now is the time
3 for us to give all members of this house and
4 the other house an opportunity to participate
5 in a meaningful way on an ongoing basis.
6 It is still remarkable that we
7 had conference committees, most of which
8 worked as well as they did placed in such a
9 short amount of time under the glare of the
10 spotlight. We don't do anything in this
11 Capitol when it becomes open without our
12 detractors for the most petty reasons, but in
13 this instance, there was an audible gasp when
14 there was this announcement made that we would
15 go to conference committees, and I do believe
16 that people across the Capitol, members of the
17 press, members of the public, lobbyists, all
18 watched in wonder while this experiment
19 unfolded.
20 I have to say to my leader,
21 Senator Connor, I appreciate the opportunity
22 to have been given a chance to serve on the
23 General Government and Local Assistance
24 Conference Committee, and it was a -- it was a
25 splendid experience, a warm positive
2673
1 encounter. The chair on the Senate side was
2 that easy-going, affable gentleman from
3 Suffolk, Senator Lack, backed up by the always
4 practical Senator Rath, and the easy-going and
5 very cordial Senator Jim Alesi, from the
6 Rochester area, and the always debonair
7 Senator Caesar Trunzo from Long Island, and we
8 all had a wonderful time and enjoyed the
9 experience of serving with our counterparts
10 from the Assembly led by none other than
11 Deputy Speaker Arthur Eve. It would be hard
12 to imagine a more dissimilar group of people
13 in the same room than the ones that I have
14 just named, and yet I think we all came out of
15 that better people, and we hopefully created a
16 document, or some of us helped to create a
17 document that will be a better part of this
18 budget.
19 More important, we gained
20 mutual respect for each other, by the public
21 at the same time that we went through this,
22 and we established the precedent hopefully
23 which will be built upon in the next year. So
24 I want to thank you again, Senator Bruno. I
25 remember years and years ago your comments
2674
1 that some day you would like to see this place
2 changed and if you ever became leader, years
3 before you ever contemplated it, how you vowed
4 that you would bring about this change, and I
5 know it couldn't happen overnight, but over
6 these last few years I've watched and been
7 very, very proud of the steps that you've
8 taken and I have not forgotten and have
9 repeated many times across this state how in
10 your very first move as Majority Leader, you
11 adopted the practice that I and others had
12 been talking about of making it a rule that we
13 would not have those late night sessions and I
14 know how fervently you tried to adhere to
15 that.
16 So I applaud you for having
17 made this important venture, and I pledge my
18 full cooperation to take it into the next
19 stages, and people across this state are
20 watching and praying that we will make this a
21 beginning, not just our standard for
22 performance. This is a beginning on which we
23 can do much, much more for the people of this
24 state.
25 On the bill before us, Mr.
2675
1 President, I have some questions, and I had
2 hoped that Senator Stafford might be speaking
3 ahead of me. I had asked what the list was
4 but I will make a few comments and then
5 perhaps if Senator Stafford wants to yield, he
6 would be able to answer one piece of
7 information that I had.
8 The bill that we have before
9 us, there's the particular bill that is here,
10 6094, I know many of us have been making
11 general remarks in the process, but I'd like
12 to turn to this measure right now, which the
13 short title is generally referred to as the
14 tax cut bill. That is somewhat of a misnomer
15 because it has a number of other things within
16 its pages, and one of those other activities
17 outlined within its pages begins -- well, the
18 important parts begin on page 77, the
19 important parts for the discussion that I
20 would like to engage in.
21 At the top of page 77, it
22 reads, "Public School Districts." "There will
23 be Authority financing of eligible school
24 construction projects, rebuilding schools to
25 uphold education," and then -- then the very
2676
1 important statement in parentheses, capital
2 letters, "RESCUE" which is the terminology now
3 for a new program to be enacted by this
4 measure if it is passed by both houses and
5 signed into law by the Governor, and then on
6 line three reads, "The Dormitory Authority is
7 authorized to finance eligible school
8 construction projects for those public school
9 districts which are approved by the
10 Commissioner of Education to receive aid
11 apportionment for rebuilding schools," and it
12 goes on to describe how that would take
13 place.
14 Down on line 41, it further
15 establishes that "the Commissioner of
16 Education shall certify from time to time to
17 the Dormitory Authority, the Comptroller, the
18 Director of the Division of the Budget, the
19 chairman of the Senate Finance Committee and
20 the chairman of the Assembly Ways and Means
21 Committee, each school district for which he"
22 -- and I'm sorry that it doesn't say "he or
23 she," but we're moving in the right direction
24 -- "has approved an aid apportionment for
25 Authority financing of a school -- school
2677
1 construction bond."
2 And Senator Stafford can
3 probably anticipate now, that since he is
4 acknowledged within this measure that I will
5 be wanting him to explain in a little bit more
6 detail how some of this bonding would take
7 place, because on page 78, beginning on line
8 26, I read, "The Dormitory Authority shall not
9 issue any bonds or notes in an amount in
10 excess of $500 million for the purposes of
11 this section, plus a principal amount of bonds
12 or notes."
13 What I would like to know is
14 what is the actual cost of this bonding, if it
15 is enacted, to the good taxpayers of this
16 state, and I wonder if Senator Stafford would
17 be so kind as to yield for a question.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you,
19 Mr. President, and thank you, Senator
20 Hoffmann, for yielding the floor to me.
21 I still want to join in with
22 everyone here, the job that's been done here
23 by all who have been involved.
24 I would like to answer a couple
25 points here. We talked about upstate New
2678
1 York. They were talking about upstate New
2 York. Where did Senator Leichter go? Must be
3 upstate -- he's gone to his summer home in
4 upstate New York. Where has Senator Connor
5 gone? I have some answers here in addition to
6 Senator Hoffmann's answers.
7 When you start talking about
8 where we were three years ago, before Senator
9 Bruno was involved, before Governor Pataki was
10 involved and, yes, the Assembly has been part
11 of it, our budgets in the counties in upstate
12 New York were a disaster, and we were going
13 down the drain. That's where we were in
14 upstate New York when people start worrying
15 about us and saying that we got problems in
16 upstate New York, and we should be addressing
17 that. We now are seeing the light of day in
18 upstate New York with our budgets in our
19 counties and our villages and our cities
20 because of the changes we've had here in the
21 last three years. We were going down the
22 drain.
23 Now, if Senator Connor is
24 listening or if Senator Leichter is listening,
25 I hope they're getting an answer, because when
2679
1 they talk about the problems we had here now
2 with this budget, and talk about whether we're
3 arguing about this state or that state, we
4 were behind all of the states, behind, going
5 down the drain, thousands and hundreds of
6 thousands of jobs leaving the state. That's
7 where we were in upstate, and we had business
8 after business leaving.
9 Now, I know sometimes we look
10 at things on the banks of the Charles a bit
11 different than we do in some other areas, and
12 I know that it isn't the Charles River that
13 goes through Wadhams. Wadhams is a suburb of
14 Elizabethtown. Elizabethtown is the county
15 seat of Essex, and I say to my friends on all
16 sides of the aisle, there was a time here -
17 there was a time here when this state wasn't
18 competitive, when we were in a position where
19 we were having a $5 billion deficit -- $5
20 billion, rather than building in over a
21 billion dollar reserve and working with a 2
22 to $3 billion deficit. And I want to point
23 this out, when it comes to making a budget
24 that I think sometimes we lose, we lose here.
25 You're dealing with a large
2680
1 figure, and, you know, I've learned this and
2 thank the good Lord and thank science and
3 medicine I'm still standing here, but medicine
4 is an inexact science and, my friends,
5 economics, as we mention -- I'm getting to the
6 answer -- economics is not an exact science,
7 believe me. Believe me, and when you talk,
8 think of it -- when you talk about $500
9 million, what percentage of that is that of
10 this budget? And look at what we projected the
11 last few years. Look and see where we
12 projected. You'll find that there was a
13 difference of 5-, $600 million here, a
14 difference of a billion dollars here, and this
15 is with the work of all the economists, and if
16 any of the economists can tell us what we're
17 going to do, I suggest that we've seen
18 something that we haven't seen in the past.
19 My friends, I can only say all
20 who have been part of this system here in the
21 past three years, three and a half years,
22 Senator Bruno, Governor Pataki, yes, the
23 Assembly, we have turned this around and, my
24 friends, this is like turning around a
25 battleship. So when I hear people stand and
2681
1 start talking about how bad things are in
2 upstate New York, my friends, they're not what
3 they were three years ago before this Governor
4 took over, before Senator Bruno took over as
5 leader. We had the cooperation of the
6 Assembly and we started getting back on the
7 track.
8 As I said, often, one man's
9 ceiling is another man's floor.
10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr.
11 President. I was kind of hoping that Senator
12 Stafford had -
13 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'm -- I'm
14 answering the question.
15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- an answer
16 to the question.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: The answer
18 is a good deal like you would get from any
19 good economist, and we're smiling and I smile,
20 but obviously you have to play this completely
21 out, the program that's in the bill, before
22 you know exactly what will happen or exactly
23 what the costs will be, and I would suggest
24 that often with some of these suggestions and
25 answers the economists give us, they should be
2682
1 as accurate as this is, because obviously you
2 would have to see what districts are involved,
3 how much maintenance is involved, exactly how
4 the program plays out and then we'll -- we'll
5 have an answer.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Hoffmann.
8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
9 Senator Stafford.
10 Well, some of us will not be
11 around to see how far this plays out. $500
12 million plus interest, I guess it's safe to
13 say it's more money than can be easily
14 explained in this chamber this afternoon. How
15 much more, and is it too much more for the
16 taxpayers of this state to endure are the real
17 unanswered questions.
18 I must go back to what happened
19 last fall, to take my guidance before I cast a
20 vote. We had before us on the ballot a school
21 bond act proposal. It was roundly rejected by
22 the taxpayers of this state when they went to
23 the polls. I have heard nothing from the
24 people in the 48th Senate to indicate that
25 they have subsequently changed their mind and
2683
1 would now like to see us go into the business
2 of bonding for school construction projects.
3 All of them support the idea of
4 improving our schools. All of them believe in
5 the wonderful value of public education, and
6 I'm sure all of them would be able to see
7 individually the merit of some schools that
8 will be helped by this proposal. However,
9 they have already said no to us only a few
10 months ago, and I see no reason that we should
11 now do something that amounts to a little
12 switcheroo and place that bond act in disguise
13 in a budget bill labeled as tax cuts.
14 So in good faith, Mr.
15 President, and Senator Bruno, while I applaud
16 much of what has taken place here in the
17 spirit of openness, this is kind of a sneaky
18 little maneuver, and it's not one that I think
19 is going to be well received, no matter how
20 well intentioned, and I would like to have
21 hopefully before we leave this Capitol the
22 actual dollar cost long term just so I can
23 explain what it really means to my
24 constituents, and I would hope that, if the
25 Governor follows through on his original
2684
1 intent, as I -- I've heard in the halls of
2 this Capitol and a few other places, although
3 I have not talked with him personally on this
4 subject, I do think that he as one of those
5 very, very fiscally conservative individuals
6 who understands the people of the central New
7 York area, I think he will find it very
8 difficult to accept this measure in here, and
9 I am confident that, if he reads it carefully,
10 he will share the same concerns that I have
11 voiced today on this floor.
12 I'd like to see us come back
13 and look at this issue in a different way, a
14 different time, but I don't think that it's
15 fair to the people of this state to put it
16 into a bill labeled "tax cuts". It is one
17 more example of back-door borrowing and while
18 we are in this new spirit of openness, I
19 really have to reject this particular proposal
20 labeled on page -- beginning on page 77 of
21 Calendar Number 6094.
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Would
23 Senator Hoffmann yield for a question, please?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Hoffmann yield?
2685
1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'd be glad
2 to.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 yields.
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Did -- I
6 would ask, and you know and collegiality is
7 very, very important when you're working in a
8 legislative body and, of course, I do my best
9 to be collegial. Some of my friends will
10 probably tell me sometimes I have to work a
11 little hard on it sometimes, harder than I do
12 and I'll continue to work on it, but I would
13 ask, do we all realize that the bond issue was
14 $2.4 billion that was put before the voters?
15 This is 500 million. The bond issue was only
16 for a certain part of the state -- New York
17 City. This is for the entire state and, my
18 friends, one of the worst things we could do
19 in this state -- and this is something Senator
20 Bruno hasn't done, the Governor hasn't done,
21 and the Speaker hasn't done -- you can't, when
22 one area of the state needs consideration, you
23 can't turn your back on it and say, "My
24 district doesn't want it." You do that,
25 you'll get nothing, but nowhere in this
2686
1 legislative body.
2 It's easy to stand up, it's
3 easy to say, Oh, my district doesn't want
4 this; this doesn't affect my district. My
5 friends, I'm convinced that when every
6 district in this state will be able to take
7 advantage -- you weren't here when I was
8 talking to you -- when every district in the
9 state will be able to take advantage of and
10 participate in this bond issue, and when we
11 have some of the problems in this state in
12 certain areas of the state, in certain
13 districts in the greatest city of the -- yeah,
14 the greatest city above one million in the
15 world -- above one million; I don't have any
16 cities of one million, but my point is we have
17 situations that have to be corrected. We have
18 situations where we're still using coal. We
19 have situations where it's absolutely
20 impossible for some of our students in this
21 state are going to school, and when we stand
22 up and say that "my district doesn't want
23 this" and when it is not exactly the same
24 thing as was considered last fall, and when we
25 have worked it out on the anvil of discussion,
2687
1 understanding, compassion, concern and good
2 will, I suggest that I wonder whether we
3 really understand that this is what we've
4 done.
5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: If that's
6 the question, Mr. President. Was there a
7 question within Senator Stafford's request for
8 me to yield for a question, or that I could
9 have rephrased perhaps through the Chair?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think
11 you missed the last phrase, "don't you think?"
12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No, is the
13 answer, Senator Stafford, and I'm very glad
14 you asked me and, Senator Stafford, it is not
15 simply my district and I must beg to differ
16 with you on one very important point. While
17 you are correct that it is much less money
18 than was in the bond act of something a little
19 less than 20 percent, I guess of what the
20 other bond act was, there still will be a
21 sizeable amount of cost to the taxpayers over
22 the period of the term of these bonds, and
23 that, I think, is an issue that we should be
24 very clear about. We're not just talking
25 about $500 million within this year's budget.
2688
1 We are talking about bonding for a much
2 greater cost to be paid back by people for
3 many, many years to come, and I have -- I
4 really have a concern that the people in a
5 vast part of the state, not simply in the 48th
6 Senate District, but since I work directly to
7 them, I report to them every even numbered
8 year and ask if I'm doing a good job and it's
9 up to them to decide whether we're in sync'
10 and then they figure out whether they want me
11 to come back here and do their bidding for
12 another couple of years, but I have heard from
13 so many of them that I felt that it was
14 important to validate their thinking. So -
15 but it's just really a euphemism for talking
16 about the upstate region that you and I both
17 know and love and, as you know, we have many
18 portions of our respective districts that
19 share much in common. I mean Wadhams is not
20 that different from downtown Pratts Hollow or
21 Apulia Station, both of which I'm proud to
22 represent, and people there work very hard for
23 a living. Some of them are under-employed.
24 Some of them wonder where the manufacturing
25 jobs have gone and why it's so tough to make a
2689
1 living in dairy farming today, and they look
2 to us to come here and come up with ways that
3 we can enhance their economic opportunities to
4 meet the expectations that they have for their
5 part of the state.
6 I don't think that's an
7 unreasonable thing for me to say today when I
8 cite their concern about the concept of back
9 door borrowing, and that's what this is and I
10 simply cannot support that part of this
11 measure, no matter how valid the tax cuts are
12 when we go into the borrowing business using
13 the Dormitory Authority, even though I know
14 that it must come to you. It's stated quite
15 clearly in here that the proposals must go
16 before the chairman of the Senate Finance
17 Committee and the chairman of Ways and Means,
18 and that gives me some sense of confidence
19 that, in your wisdom, you would not allow an
20 inappropriate school project to be funded
21 through this mechanism, but I am still
22 concerned about the entire concept of the
23 funding.
24 So I am, therefore, going to
25 have to register a no vote, and I still hope
2690
1 I'll be able to get a complete fiscal profile
2 on this measure before the end of the day.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Dollinger.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 As someone who's stood here
8 before and criticized this process, I felt it
9 important to stand up and just air a couple
10 quick views for the members and my
11 colleagues.
12 First of all, Senator Bruno, I
13 want to tell you that, contrary to your stated
14 assumption, this isn't -- this budget
15 process is not good economics for everybody.
16 I can think of three people off the bat -
17 right off the bat for whom this could be a
18 disaster.
19 First of all, what about all
20 those guys working overtime at the print shop
21 that used to print these bills at 3:00 o'clock
22 in the morning, Senator? They're not going to
23 get their bonus this year, because they're
24 printing it in the light of day.
25 Secondly, Senator, you remember
2691
1 that Italian family that used to make the
2 wonderful ziti that we served out here at 3:00
3 o'clock in the morning. They're gone,
4 Senator, and they may even come from your
5 district.
6 Lastly, Senator, I think
7 unfortunately we've got another budget cut we
8 can do next year if we continue to do it this
9 way. That guy on the second floor that does
10 all those messages of necessity for the
11 Governor, why, you're going to put him right
12 out of business. We can just ax that job next
13 year if we continue to do it on time as we've
14 been doing it this year.
15 So contrary, Senator, to this
16 being -- there are some people that may suffer
17 a little as a consequence of doing this in the
18 light of day and doing it on time.
19 But on a quite more serious
20 note, Senator, I congratulate you, as I have
21 congratulated the Deputy Majority Leader. I
22 have stood here very critical of this process
23 before, and I can remember as recently as
24 three weeks ago saying to my colleague Senator
25 Seabrook, I'm not going to vote for this
2692
1 budget until somebody gives me a place at the
2 table, and I got that this year. I sat on the
3 Senate Health Committee with Senator Larkin,
4 Senator Rath and Senator Hannon who led the
5 committee in the negotiations with our
6 colleague Senator Gottfried, or Assemblyman
7 Gottfried, and I thought it was a solid job.
8 I understand as a lawyer that
9 not everybody can be on a good decision. I
10 was describing to Senator Stafford earlier, I
11 participated in a rather complicated
12 construction matter in my practice as a
13 lawyer. We negotiated in public with 14
14 people at the table for about five hours, and
15 then the lawyers said, Let's go out and see if
16 we can put this thing together in the hall,
17 and we did. So I understand that not every
18 decision can be made at a public table, but I
19 think this year we clearly opened the door to
20 a more open budget process, and as I've
21 described it to some others, I'm not
22 convinced, Senator Bruno, the door is
23 completely open yet, but I think it's
24 certainly ajar. It's moved in the right
25 direction and because the door was open ajar,
2693
1 you could look around the door and see what
2 was going on, you could look between the
3 hedges, the hinges, and see what was going on,
4 a much better position for all of us to be in
5 than to simply have the door closed and keep
6 knocking on the door and not getting answers.
7 The door has been open to this process.
8 Senator Bruno, I think it was
9 an act of political courage to walk down that
10 road not knowing where it led, not knowing
11 where it would end up, but I think this
12 process this year has been an affirmation of
13 the power of collegial politics, and I hope
14 that, quite frankly, it changes some of the
15 relationships even in this room between those
16 of us who are Democrats and Republicans, and
17 the seeming and the unbridgable gulf that sits
18 right in the middle of this chamber may be a
19 little bit easier to bridge in the future.
20 I'll add one comment on
21 substance for my colleagues. I am very leery
22 of prosperity-based promises. I'm leery of
23 promises in which we make for future tax cuts
24 based on assumption of continuing prosperity
25 and that's exactly what we're doing here.
2694
1 We're assuming that the boom on Wall Street,
2 the additional revenues, will fund major tax
3 relief in the future.
4 I stand here today because I
5 quote from actually two of my childhood
6 sources. One comes from my having watched
7 television as a kid. I'm always reminded of
8 that great philosopher, J. Wellington Wimpy,
9 who was on Popeye, who always said, "I'd
10 gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger
11 today." Well, we get the hamburger today when
12 we announce fabulous tax cuts for everybody in
13 this state. We don't pay for it until Tuesday
14 and, if you remember Popeye, Tuesday never
15 came. He was always borrowing in anticipation
16 of the future.
17 My sense is that this budget,
18 the tax cuts in this budget may go a bit too
19 far. I'm mindful of Senator Leichter's
20 comments, and I believe that at least from
21 this legislator's perspective, it's a
22 prosperity-based promise. If the prosperity
23 disappeared, our ability to fulfill that
24 promise will disappear as well.
25 I'll quote one other famous
2695
1 philosopher, and I think it comes from the
2 region represented by my colleague on my left,
3 Senator Gentile, and that is that old Brooklyn
4 axiom of "Wait 'til next year." We'll have to
5 wait 'til next year. We'll have to see what
6 next year brings. If it brings the kind of
7 prosperity that has fueled budget surpluses it
8 will give us the ability to fulfill those
9 promises. If not, I think we face some very
10 difficult choices of whether we're going to
11 keep the promise created by extra fund being
12 for education, extra funding for technology,
13 extra funding for welfare to help them
14 transition, all those promises that we've made
15 to the people of this state that will give
16 them the substance and the ability to stand on
17 their own, work in competitive jobs and
18 survive in the competitive marketplace. That
19 promise we've made to the people of this state
20 and the promise, the tenuous promise, about
21 massive tax relief. Then we will face a very,
22 very difficult choice.
23 But this year I believe that
24 we've got enough money to pay for what we're
25 doing this year. I'm leery of those
2696
1 prosperity promises at least from this
2 legislator's seat. I'm willing to make -
3 fulfill the promise this year and let's wait
4 and see what future year brings. If it
5 doesn't bring the prosperity that we hope for,
6 we face a very, very difficult choice about
7 fulfilling the needs of our citizens and
8 fulfilling the promise of tax relief, and then
9 we will face a truly difficult choice.
10 SENATOR STAFFORD: I wonder if
11 Senator Dollinger would yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Stafford. Senator Dollinger, do you yield?
14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd be glad
15 to.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 yields.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: You and I
19 often have questions back and forth so that
20 Senator Hoffmann is not the only person I ask
21 questions. But in the spirit of collegiality
22 again and I know in your very fine remarks,
23 and I appreciate it, but I only ask this so we
24 can sort of take a broad stroke of the
25 conceptual brush here.
2697
1 Are we all aware that, when
2 this program was presented in our budget,
3 there was an amendment on the side to my left
4 to increase that spending by $2 billion? That
5 was passed by a party vote, everyone taking
6 part in supporting it with my friends to the
7 left with certain exceptions, and I just point
8 this out to -- to explain that maybe we're
9 thinking -- maybe we weren't thinking then
10 about, because I was -- I was a fan of Pop
11 eye. Now, I don't -- as I look around the
12 room here, not many people remember Popeye,
13 Wimpy.
14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: And Olive.
15 SENATOR STAFFORD: And who?
16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Olive, you
17 know, Olive Oyl.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, there
19 are people who are as old as I am around here,
20 but again maybe we weren't thinking, and again
21 I'm not just addressing this to you as the
22 person I'm asking the question. Maybe we
23 weren't thinking then as much about Wimpy and
24 Popeye as we should have been.
25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through
2698
1 you, Mr. President. In response, I think that
2 the amendment that you make reference to,
3 Senator Stafford, was an additional investment
4 in the people of this state, that was
5 supported by the Democratic Conference, that
6 our thought was that what we'd do is use the
7 extra surplus, the prosperity laden surplus
8 that we have today, and make an investment to
9 day in the people of this state, whether that
10 investment is in the form of additional
11 education aid, additional school construction
12 aid, help for welfare families, help for
13 middle class families, additional tax cuts for
14 seniors, giving the people of this state a
15 $100 rebate using the surplus to put cash in
16 their pocket that they could go out and drive
17 the economic engine of this state. All of
18 those things were a part of the Democratic
19 proposal, to use what we've got today, use it
20 today and, to use the words of Wimpy, to
21 perhaps change the analogy instead of waiting
22 until Tuesday to pay for the hamburger, we'd
23 pay for the hamburger today. We'd buy it
24 today, we'd pay for it today and then we'd
25 wait to see what happens in the future.
2699
1 Prudence. Fiscally prudent in
2 my judgment, and a good thing for the people
3 of this state.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Gold to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry?
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 Mr. President, I will be brief
9 and I just wanted to comment. Senator
10 Stafford said something and lest the walls
11 fall down, Senator, I agree with you.
12 Changing this process is exactly like trying
13 to turn around a battleship, and I think that
14 what was done this year is unquestionably a
15 major step. Our members were involved and
16 while I have often said -- and to the chagrin
17 of some of my own members -- that we suffer
18 around here from too many people in the press
19 corps who are lazy, this time they got to see
20 our members in action, and I even saw them
21 quoted in some of the papers and on
22 television, and while it's very easy for the
23 press to say, Well, who cares about the
24 debate, this is what happened, many people
25 back home often say, Well, how come that
2700
1 happened and nobody said anything, and we try
2 to explain to them that in this house and in
3 the other house, the Minority does speak out
4 for the interest of people. That might be
5 different than what happens on a specific
6 bill.
7 Having said that, I do say,
8 Senator Bruno, that in the future, there are
9 things that can be done to make it a little
10 better and they're really small things.
11 For example, in looking at the
12 subcommittees, there seems to be a lot of
13 agreement that those subcommittees that worked
14 around a table and had people looking at each
15 other seem to work better than the
16 subcommittees that sat up on a dais and did
17 more posturing than anything else. It's a
18 little different when you see a face across
19 from you than when you turn and you're looking
20 at somebody's ear.
21 Also, Senator Bruno, in this
22 house where we have perhaps 43 percent of the
23 house, you still seem to get your way an awful
24 lot of the time. It seems to me that, if you
25 want to take advantage of intellect, it
2701
1 wouldn't be so terrible to have the committees
2 four to two or three to two. You still have
3 your Majority. The Assembly still has its
4 Majority, but you have an opportunity -- you
5 still have an opportunity to bring in more
6 intellect.
7 I also think, Senator Bruno,
8 that while this process was undoubtedly more
9 open and there was more things that were
10 member-driven, the truth is and everybody
11 knows it, there was still a lot of leadership
12 strings. I know my committee was charged with
13 the responsibility of looking at the tax
14 package. My committee didn't announce
15 anything until after Senator Stafford already
16 announced what the leaders had agreed would be
17 the tax package, and I know the Assembly
18 co-chair was very upset and held a meeting
19 right away to make it look like he did it but
20 everyone knows it was done by leadership.
21 But having said that, the fact
22 is that this is a major step towards reform,
23 and while we may have been proposing it for
24 ten years, it is not unusual for the
25 Majorities to take ten years to catch up with
2702
1 us and we understand that but, Senator Bruno,
2 you stand out there every year to take the
3 blame and to get bashed around and take the
4 blame. So in this situation, I think it's
5 only fair that you do get some of the credit
6 and I mean that sincerely.
7 In America, it has always been
8 a Majority that is in power that does give up
9 some of its power which starts to have
10 Minorities take place -- take their part in
11 the system.
12 I think that as someone said
13 and it's been quoted all over the place for
14 weeks now, the genie's out of the bottle. I
15 think that that is good. I think that you and
16 Speaker Silver have found out that you didn't
17 disintegrate by giving up some of this power.
18 You still have your major power.
19 So I congratulate the
20 Legislature for the way everybody adopted so
21 quickly to this. Certainly the co-chairs were
22 operating in a situation where many of them
23 were without direction and perhaps next year
24 there will be better direction given to them.
25 I can only judge from my committee, but there
2703
1 was an Assembly Republican sitting on my
2 committee and I'm glad he was there,
3 Assemblyman Winner, and his intellect was
4 certainly a help to the committee.
5 So it's not only that this
6 particular Minority which has talent was out
7 there to be seen but certainly there were some
8 Assembly Republicans who got an opportunity
9 which they also were entitled to.
10 So I think that the proof of
11 the pudding to some extent is in the eating
12 and here we are. It is April 14th and we are
13 doing the people's work.
14 So I think it is certainly a
15 major change and certainly a refreshing
16 change.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Stachowski, do you want to speak or do you
19 want to explain your vote?
20 The Secretary will read the
21 last section.
22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I have one
23 comment, Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Stachowski.
2704
1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
2 President, I don't want to make a long comment
3 but earlier Senator Stafford mentioned that
4 the Minority had proposed an amendment that
5 would have spent an additional $2 billion over
6 the Governor and not to be confrontational on
7 a day that we're all happy with the process,
8 but the Minority never supported any amendment
9 that would have spent more than the Governor,
10 and I just wanted to make that correction to
11 keep us on the straight and narrow.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the last -
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Will Senator
15 Stachowski yield for a question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Stachowski, do you yield to a question?
18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Again, in
20 the spirit of collegiality in trying to put it
21 altogether, I didn't say anything about more
22 or less than the Governor. Do you remember
23 that? I just said it was $2 billion more.
24 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Oh, okay.
25 Then I stand corrected. I assumed that he
2705
1 meant more than the Governor but we weren't
2 spending more than anybody.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 54.
6 This act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the
10 roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
12 the negatives and announce the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays
14 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in
15 the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 bill is passed.
18 Senator Bruno.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
20 can we at this time take up Senate 6105-C.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read Senate Print 6105-C, which
23 is Calendar 492.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 492, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6105-C, an act
2706
1 making appropriation for the support of
2 government.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Cook.
8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I
9 would simply like to point out that -- I would
10 simply like to point out that I think this
11 process worked very well on this particular
12 bill. I'm not going to belabor what's in it.
13 I would like to indicate,
14 however, in regard to the bonding on the
15 previous bill, that as much as I am opposed to
16 bonding myself, that this is a four-year
17 program, that there is no way to predict how
18 much of that money may be going out the door
19 in a given year because of the approval
20 process and the only way to make sure that the
21 money will be accessible at the point in time
22 when the projects are approved is to put it in
23 a bonding procedure which is in a sense a
24 first instance where it can be bonded, paid
25 out and then repaid out of a general fund in
2707
1 the year in which it applies. So that's the
2 reason it was done in that manner, but in
3 general, I support the concept.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
7 This act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the
11 roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
13 the negative. Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays
15 1, Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 bill is passed.
18 Senator Bruno.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
20 can we at this time take up Senate 6103-C.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read Senate 6103-C. It's
23 Calendar 436.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 436, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6103-C, an act
2708
1 making appropriations for the support of
2 government.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Sec... Senator Padavan.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 This budget bill which I will
8 vote for, like all the other bills before us
9 this afternoon, does a great deal of good in
10 so many different ways that touch the people
11 of this state.
12 However, there is one small
13 part of this bill which I think is important
14 in terms of its significance and where it does
15 not do the right thing for the people of this
16 state, and I specifically refer to that
17 section of the bill on page 245 that deals
18 with the state lottery.
19 The amount indicated here in
20 excess of $105 million is not broken down in
21 detail but inquiries indicate to us that there
22 will be increases in advertising in the state
23 lottery. There will be 2500 new outlets of
24 the state lottery. Additional funds will be
25 expended for lottery vending machines for the
2709
1 Quick Draw program that we regrettably bid
2 into a number of years ago.
3 Report after report, the most
4 recent being two weeks ago relevant to teenage
5 gambling in the state, tells us that we are
6 getting more and more of that part of our
7 population that should not be participating in
8 gambling by advertising and other means of
9 enticing them into lottery games.
10 I'm not a prohibitionist on
11 this or anything else for that matter, but I
12 think you reach a point where you're going too
13 far and in New York State I think we've gone
14 far past that point, and this budget,
15 unfortunately, and this portion of it
16 continues in that mode.
17 So while I support the bill and
18 all of the other budget bills for all the
19 reasons that have been articulated so
20 extremely well here today, I feel disposed,
21 Mr. President, at this juncture to point out
22 what I consider a failing in the process that
23 we are dealing with today.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Secretary will read the last section.
2710
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
2 President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Oh,
4 there's two members.
5 Senator Leichter, I think you
6 beat Senator -
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
8 President, I'm also going to support this
9 bill, but I too want to point out an aspect of
10 this bill which I think is unwise. An
11 appropriation of $25 million for -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Leichter, could you take the piece of paper
14 off the microphone.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is that
16 what's causing that noise? I was looking
17 around seeing -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think
19 the -
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
22 you.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm troubled
24 by the 25 million added to Jobs Now which will
25 provide a total of $70 million. This money
2711
1 goes to the Empire State Development
2 Corporation.
3 Let me make it very clear, as I
4 hope I have at other times. I have no problem
5 in state economic assistance programs. I do
6 have a problem in programs that don't work and
7 in investing in industries that are downsizing
8 and not creating jobs.
9 Now, I'm advised that some
10 changes have been made, will, I believe be in
11 the language bill which will at least give
12 some guarantees that there will be additional
13 jobs created.
14 I issued a report, maybe about
15 a month ago showing the number of ESD grants
16 and gifts and loans that have gone to
17 corporations that then moved out of the state
18 or never provided the jobs that they were
19 required to provide. I think it's one thing
20 to hold out a helping hand. I think it's
21 another thing to be a sucker, and that's what
22 we too often have been.
23 I got up before on this floor
24 today and at other times expressing my
25 disagreement with the economic development
2712
1 policies that we've pursued, and I just
2 implore and beseech you to look at each of
3 these programs. The fact that somebody says,
4 This is to create jobs; this is to make us
5 competitive doesn't mean it's a good program.
6 Look at the results. Look at the bottom
7 line. We've had Comptroller's reports about
8 how our economic development policies have not
9 done what they were supposed to. We never
10 really look and see whether the money we're
11 investing is bringing us the return that we
12 want. We've got committees in this
13 Legislature. Why don't we hold a hearing to
14 see how ESD is performing its job, and this is
15 not political because I pleaded with you to do
16 the same thing when it was UDC under Vince
17 Tese. I think that, by and large, it's an
18 agency outside of our control, maybe outside
19 of anybody's control, spending an awful lot of
20 money and showing very little return for the
21 people of the state of New York. Now to give
22 them additional monies, I think is unwise.
23 There are obviously other
24 aspects of this bill that I support. As
25 Senator Bruno said, you're not going to find
2713
1 in a budget bill of this size something that
2 all of us can enthusiastically support, but I
3 do want to get up and make the point and I
4 will continue making it, that our economic
5 development policies have to show results and
6 if they don't, we shouldn't be pouring more
7 money down a rat's hole.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Hoffmann.
10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 This is a repeat of something
13 that came up last year. It includes in it a
14 425 million bonding proposal, if passed, that
15 would, again, subject the taxpayers of this
16 state to a much greater cost than $425
17 million, obviously. Well intentioned as it
18 is, I have a great deal of difficulty
19 supporting it.
20 I opposed it last year but last
21 year it was at least subject to an MOU. That
22 MOU expired on April 1st. I don't see the
23 reference to language in here to explain how
24 this would all be enacted. I'm somewhat
25 troubled by that.
2714
1 Also I'm a little disturbed
2 that during this budget negotiation that we
3 had, the Governor had originally proposed
4 converting this $425 million appropriation
5 into a cash appropriation instead of bonding
6 for it, and I'm disturbed that the leadership
7 in this house and the leadership in the other
8 house who were involved most closely in these
9 negotiations -- because I don't believe this
10 was on the table in the conference committees,
11 although I may be wrong -- but certainly
12 didn't come before the General Government
13 Conference Committee where I think I would
14 have expected to see it, but since it -- we've
15 taken a step backwards from where we were last
16 year. If it was a bad idea last year to bond
17 for $425 million for arts and sports
18 facilities around the state and do it subject
19 to an MOU, then it's an even worse idea this
20 year when we had more available cash for us to
21 continue this concept of bonding for $425
22 million, especially since we don't even know
23 the actual mechanism by which the money would
24 be appropriated.
25 So I'm afraid, once again, I
2715
1 must respect the wishes of the people in the
2 Central New York area, both in and in the
3 surrounding areas to the 48th Senate District
4 and cast my vote in the negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
8 This act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the
12 roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
14 the negatives.
15 Senator Leichter to explain his
16 vote.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. I
18 don't want my name called. I said about two
19 minutes ago I was going to vote for this bill,
20 but I had forgotten that it included the 425
21 million that Senator Hoffmann just reminded me
22 of and I've got to say, that tips the balance
23 for me certainly in voting against it. I
24 think she's absolutely right. I pointed out
25 some other reasons and while there's some very
2716
1 good things in here, I cannot support that 425
2 million.
3 So I will vote in the negative.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Leichter will be recorded in the negative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays
8 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in
9 the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 bill is passed.
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
14 would you call up Calendar Number 616, Senate
15 6098-B.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 616, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6098-B, an act
20 to amend Chapter 393 of the Laws of 1994,
21 amending the New York State Urban Development
22 Corporation Act.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
2717
1 This act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the
5 roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
7 me. Withdraw the roll call.
8 Senator Stafford, are you
9 handling the explanation on Calendar Number
10 616? Senator Leichter has requested an
11 explanation.
12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr.
13 President, the purpose of this bill is to
14 place in statutory provisions, in other words,
15 enact statutory provisions, in appropriation
16 language, provisions necessary to implement
17 the Transportation, Economic Development and
18 Environmental Conservation Budget Bill, the
19 Education, Labor and Family Assistance Budget
20 Bill and the Public Protection, Health, Mental
21 Hygiene Budget Bill, and as we know in the
22 past years due to a Supreme Court decision -
23 no, Court of Appeals decision -- it's known as
24 the Bankers decision -- it is necessary that
25 we carry out this responsibility.
2718
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Leichter.
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I have
4 no questions.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
8 This act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the
12 roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
14 the negatives. Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays
16 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in
17 the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 would you call up Calendar Number 615, Senate
23 6096-B.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Secretary will read.
2719
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 615, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6096-B, an act
3 in relation to appropriations made by a
4 Chapter of the Laws of 1998, enacting the
5 General Government Budget.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 51.
9 This act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the
13 roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
15 the negative. Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays
17 1, Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 bill is passed.
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 would you call up Calendar Number 491, Senate
23 6100-B.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 Secretary will read.
2720
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 491, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6100-B, an act
3 making appropriations for the support of
4 government, the Legislature and the Judiciary
5 Budget.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5.
9 This act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the
13 roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Leichter, to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
17 President, just to explain my vote.
18 We've had an opportunity really
19 to debate this bill, if not an identical bill,
20 certainly a bill that had the same flaws as
21 this particular bill does. This is the
22 Legislative and Judicial Budget.
23 For years I have opposed the
24 Legislative Budget because it's a hoax. It's
25 a fraud. It's not a true budget bill. It has
2721
1 lump sum appropriation. It doesn't advise the
2 members or the public of how we're going to
3 spend what is, I believe, close to $160
4 million. It's really an act of contempt on
5 our part to the public to say that we can pass
6 a bill in this form and claim that it's a
7 budget bill.
8 With all the praise that we
9 heaped on ourselves today and maybe some of it
10 was deserved, we certainly show that we have a
11 long way to go in reforming our procedures
12 when we put forth a budget bill of this sort.
13 I would really hope the Legislature could do
14 what we require of the executive, and that is
15 to put forth an itemized detailed budget.
16 Mr. President, I will vote in
17 the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Leichter will be recorded in the negative.
20 Announce the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays
22 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in
23 the negative.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 bill is passed.
2722
1 Senator Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3 if we could return to motions and resolutions,
4 I believe there's two privileged resolutions
5 at the desk by Senator Volker. I ask that the
6 titles be read and move for their immediate
7 adoption.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
9 return to the order of motions and
10 resolutions.
11 I'll direct the Secretary to
12 read the title to the privileged resolutions
13 by Senator Volker.
14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
15 Volker, Legislative Resolution commending
16 Teresa House upon the occasion of its
17 designation as recipient of the "Geneseo
18 Foundation Meritorious Service Award";
19 By Senator Volker, Legislative
20 Resolution honoring Molly McKeown on the
21 occasion of her designation as the recipient
22 of the "Geneseo Foundation Meritorious Service
23 Award."
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 question is on the resolutions. All those in
2723
1 favor signify by saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye".)
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (There was no response.)
5 The resolutions are adopted.
6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
7 is there any housekeeping at the desk? We
8 have a few housekeepers here that want to be
9 of help.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's
11 no housekeeping up here, Senator.
12 SENATOR BRUNO: No
13 housekeeping. Our business having been
14 concluded in an extremely efficient way and
15 there being no further business to come before
16 the Senate, I would move that we stand
17 adjourned until Wednesday, April 29th, at 3:00
18 p.m., intervening days to be legislative days.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
20 objection, hearing no objection, the Senate
21 stands adjourned until Wednesday, April 29th,
22 at 3:00 p.m., intervening days to be
23 legislative days. The Senate stands
24 adjourned.
25 (Whereupon, at 4:29 p.m., the
2724
1 Senate adjourned.)
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