Regular Session - April 30, 1998

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         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                     April 30, 1998

        11                      1:24 p.m.

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        14                   REGULAR SESSION

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        18       SENATOR MICHAEL A.L. BALBONI, Acting President

        19       STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

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         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         3       Senate will come to order.  Please join me in

         4       saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (Assemblage repeated the Pledge

         6       of Allegiance to the Flag. )

         7                      In the absence of clergy, we'll

         8       all bow our heads in a moment of silence.

         9                      (A moment of silence was

        10       observed. )

        11                      Reading of the Journal.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        13       Wednesday, April 29th.  The Senate met

        14       pursuant to adjournment.  The Journal of

        15       Tuesday, April 28th, was read and approved.

        16       On motion, Senate adjourned.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        18       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        19       as read.

        20                      The presentation of petitions.

        21                      Messages from the Assembly.

        22                      Messages from the Governor.

        23                      Reports of standing

        24       committees.  The Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,







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         1       from the Committee on Judiciary, offers up the

         2       following nomination:

         3                      As a Justice of the Supreme

         4       Court for the Second Judicial District, Muriel

         5       Shaff Hubsher, of Brooklyn.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         7       Senator Lack.

         8                      SENATOR LACK:  Mr. President, I

         9       rise to move the nomination of Muriel Shaff

        10       Hubsher, of Brooklyn, as a Justice of the

        11       Supreme Court for the Second Judicial

        12       District.  Judge Hubsher appeared before the

        13       Judiciary Committee this morning, was

        14       unanimously moved by the committee to the

        15       floor of the Legislature.  Her credentials

        16       have been examined by the staff of the Senate

        17       Judiciary Committee, have been found totally

        18       in order, and I would respectfully yield to

        19       Senator Connor for the purposes of a second.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        21       Senator Connor.

        22                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      Mr. President, I'm indeed

        25       honored to second the nomination to confirm







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         1       Judge Hubsher.  She has served with

         2       distinction in the great county of Kings as a

         3       criminal court judge, and as an acting Justice

         4       of the Supreme Court and brings to the bench

         5        -- brings to this new appointment as a

         6       Supreme Court Justice her experience in the

         7       court system as a law secretary to some of the

         8       finest jurists that the county of Kings has

         9       been graced with over the past years.  Besides

        10       her very astute legal mind, her human

        11       qualities will make her a good judge because,

        12       as I've said before in this chamber, being a

        13       judge is more than just learning of the law.

        14       Judging is about knowing and understanding

        15       people, knowing and understanding the

        16       community in which one resides and

        17       understanding the basic elements of human

        18       nature.  Judge Hubsher has demonstrated in her

        19       tenure on the bench the ability to do that so

        20       well.

        21                      Besides all this, she's a

        22       wonderful person, a delightful person, and I'm

        23       indeed happy to move her confirmation.

        24                      Judge Hubsher is here today

        25       with us, and I urge all my colleagues to







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         1       support this nomination.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         3       question is on the nomination of Judge Muriel

         4       Shaff Hubsher as a Justice of the Supreme

         5       Court for the Second Judicial District.

         6                      All in favor signify by saying

         7       aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed nay.

        10                      (There was no response. )

        11                      Muriel Hubsher is hereby

        12       confirmed as a Justice of the Supreme Court of

        13       the Second Judicial District.

        14                      Congratulations!  With her this

        15       afternoon are her husband, Dr. Mitchell

        16       Hubsher, grandchildren Sierra and Willow

        17       Hubsher, family members Dr. and Mrs. Steve

        18       Shaff, and friends Murray Tannenholtz and Dr.

        19       and Mrs. Joseph Fenton.  Welcome, all.

        20       Congratulations.

        21                      (Applause)

        22                      Secretary will read.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  As Judge of the

        24       Court of Claims, Edgar C. Nemoyer, of

        25       Buffalo.







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         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         2       Senator Lack.

         3                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                      I rise once again to move the

         6       nomination of Edgar C. Nemoyer, of Buffalo, as

         7       a judge of the Court of Claims.  Judge Nemoyer

         8       is already a member of the Court of Claims.

         9       His credentials were examined by the staff of

        10       the Judiciary Committee.  They were found

        11       certainly to be in order.  He appeared before

        12       the committee this morning, was unanimously

        13       moved to the floor.

        14                      I'm happy to call on Senator

        15       Volker for purposes of a second.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        17       chair recognizes Senator Volker.

        18                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        19       I want to second the nomination of Judge

        20       Nemoyer who has been on the Court of Claims

        21       previously.  A fine gentleman, as I said in

        22       the committee meeting.  I've known Edgar

        23       Nemoyer for a number of years -- a former

        24       police officer, a former teacher at SUNY law

        25       school, a fine gentleman and a top flight







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         1       jurist, I think probably considered one of the

         2       best lawyers in the western New York area, and

         3       I think the Governor made really a great

         4       choice renaming Ed Nemoyer to the Court of

         5       Claims.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         7       Thank you, Senator Volker.

         8                      Senator Stachowski.

         9                      SENATOR STACHOWSKI:  Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                      I, too, would like to rise to

        12       second the nomination of Edgar Nemoyer.  He

        13       has done a great job on the Court of Claims

        14       and obviously the Governor made a great choice

        15       when he reappointed him.  I was glad to follow

        16       Senator Volker because it's always good when

        17       one policeman/lawyer speaks first about

        18       another policeman/lawyer, not having been

        19       either, but he does a great job on the bench.

        20       He's always been active in his community.  I'm

        21       glad that he's one of my constituents, and

        22       it's a thrill to have the opportunity to say a

        23       few words about Edgar Nemoyer.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        25       Thank you, Senator Stachowski.







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         1                      Chair recognizes Senator Rath.

         2                      SENATOR RATH:  Thank you, Mr.

         3       Chairman.

         4                      It's my pleasure also to rise

         5       on behalf of a few words for Judge Nemoyer.

         6                      Judge Nemoyer is a friend and a

         7       comrade on the judiciary of many of the people

         8       that I know very well back in the district,

         9       thought of very highly by the bench and the

        10       bar and all the people of the community.  I'm

        11       delighted that he's going to be reappointed

        12       and wish you well, Judge.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        14       question is on the confirmation of Edgar C.

        15       Nemoyer as judge of the Court of Claims.  All

        16       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        17                      (Response of "Aye.")

        18                      Opposed nay.

        19                      (There was no response. )

        20                      Eric -- Edgar C. Nemoyer is

        21       hereby confirmed as a Court of Claims judge.

        22                      Congratulations, and the judge

        23       has with him today his wife Josephine.

        24       Congratulations.

        25                      (Applause)







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         1                      Secretary will read.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  As a judge of

         3       the Court of Claims, Terry Jane Ruderman of

         4       Scarsdale.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         6       Senator Lack.

         7                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      I rise to move the nomination

        10       of Terry Jane Ruderman as a judge of the Court

        11       of Claims.  Judge Ruderman is currently a

        12       member of that court.  She was confirmed by

        13       this body in June of 1995, is completing

        14       almost three years on the Court of Claims.

        15       She, of course, has had her credentials once

        16       again examined by the staff of the Judiciary

        17       Committee.  They've been found entirely in

        18       order, and I would just like to spend a moment

        19       or two myself, if I could, talking about Judge

        20       Ruderman because, since she has been on the

        21       bench for the last three years, I've gotten to

        22       know her and to know her work.

        23                      She took over a seat that had

        24       been vacant in White Plains in Westchester

        25       County, in a court that had a large backlog.







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         1       She's done an excellent job.  She has erased

         2       the backlog.  I know from her colleagues who

         3       sit on the Court of Claims that she has

         4       achieved an excellent record on that court,

         5       which is not surprising considering her back

         6       ground as a principal law clerk to the

         7       Honorable Kenneth Rudolph of the Supreme Court

         8       in Westchester County, as a practicing

         9       attorney in the office of the County Executive

        10       of Westchester County, the Westchester County

        11       Attorney, distinguished graduate of Pace

        12       University, articles editor of the Pace

        13       University Law Review.

        14                      Judge Ruderman, a -- one of the

        15       first appointees of then new Governor George

        16       Pataki, has certainly distinguished herself on

        17       the Court of Claims and, Mr. President, it is

        18       a distinct pleasure to rise to move her

        19       renomination as a judge of that court and to

        20       wish her Godspeed and good luck.

        21                      Like to also mention, she is

        22       joined today by her husband, Jerold Ruderman,

        23       and her daughter and son-in-law, Jill and

        24       Donald Sandford.

        25                      Thank you, Mr. President.







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         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         2       Chair recognizes Senator Leibell.

         3                      SENATOR LEIBELL:  Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                      Senator Lack has very well and

         6       ably stated the great record of Judge

         7       Ruderman, but I would like to at this point

         8       join in and move this nomination, noting her

         9       great accomplishments as a member of the Court

        10       of Claims, and the distinguished career she

        11       had before she went to that bench.

        12                      This has certainly been a most

        13       excellent appointment by Governor Pataki, and

        14       I join in with my colleagues in wishing her a

        15       continued successful career as a jurist.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        17       question is on the confirmation of Terry Jane

        18       Ruderman of Sand Lake as judge of the Court of

        19       Claims --sorry about that typo, Scarsdale.

        20       Sand lake is a nice place too though, your

        21       Honor.

        22                      All those in favor, please

        23       signify by saying aye.

        24                      (Response of "Aye.")

        25                      Opposed nay.







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         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      Terry Jane Ruderman is hereby

         3       confirmed as judge of the Court of Claims.

         4       Congratulations, Judge Ruderman, and joining

         5       judge Ruderman today is her husband, Jerold

         6       Ruderman, daughter Jill and her husband,

         7       Donald Sandford, and friends Debbie Sellas,

         8       Susie Hickson and Tom Jefferson.

         9                      Congratulations, your Honor.

        10                      (Applause)

        11                      The Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  As a judge of

        13       the Court of Claims, Jonathan Lippman, of Rye

        14       Brook.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        16       Senator Lack.

        17                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      It is with great honor that I

        20       rise to move the nomination of Jonathan

        21       Lippman, of Rye Brook, as a judge of the Court

        22       of Claims.  This, as with Judge Ruderman, is

        23       the second time that Judge Lippman has

        24       appeared before this body for a renomination.

        25       I'd like to spend a couple minutes, if I







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         1       could, just saying a couple things about Jon

         2       Lippman.

         3                      Jon Lippman, of course, as

         4       everybody knows, is not only a judge of the

         5       Court of Claims but is the chief

         6       administrative judge of the state of New

         7       York.  As such, he has the hardest job of any

         8       judge in the court system.  Up to not too long

         9       ago, when someone wasn't a judge, you could

        10       become chief administrator of the courts.

        11       Technically, under the law, you could do that

        12       still today.  The court system, and I think

        13       rightly, found out not too long ago that

        14       trying to have a non-judge serving as the

        15       chief administrator of the state's judicial

        16       system severely hobbles the ability of that

        17       person to do his or her work.

        18                      Governor Pataki, I think in

        19       anticipation that there would be an opening in

        20       the chief administrative -- chief

        21       administrator's position, very wisely moved

        22       the nomination of the then deputy chief

        23       administrator of the courts, Jon Lippman, to

        24       become a judge of the Court of Claims and

        25       subsequently the deputy chief administrative







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         1       judge and not surprisingly, of course, he

         2       succeeded to the job of chief administrative

         3       judge.

         4                      But a judge he is, and as the

         5       chief administrative judge of the state of New

         6       York, he's the one person every day who has to

         7       walk the fine line by being a judge and yet

         8       also part of the real politic system of how

         9       this state is governed, who has to daily deal

        10       with any one or more of the 211 legislators,

        11       the agencies of state government, the

        12       gubernatorial process, the people in the

        13       Governor's office, and has to move the billion

        14       dollar a year agency that the judiciary is

        15       through its paces 365 days a year and, at the

        16       same time, still adhere to the canons of

        17       judicial ethics and everything that that

        18       requires to be a judge.

        19                      If anybody thinks that that's

        20       an easy job and one that can be done without

        21       having to spend a good part of the day

        22       wondering where that line is between being an

        23       administrator and a judge, and how far you can

        24       operate into the political system and at the

        25       same time still be a judge, try to follow







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         1       Judge Lippman on his daily rounds and see how

         2       he does the job, and the answer you'll get

         3       from me as probably the member of the

         4       Legislature that he has to deal with him the

         5       most, is that he does the job spectacularly.

         6       He is totally honest.  He is totally

         7       available.  He is accessible not only to

         8       myself but to any member of this Legislature

         9       at any time.

        10                      He has taken a job that, in the

        11       past, has been considered a bureaucratic

        12       nightmare and turned it into a philosophically

        13       based operation where the judiciary as a whole

        14       under his guidance together with the guidance

        15       of the chief judge of the state, the chief

        16       judge of the Court of Appeals, Judith Kaye,

        17       are firmly in front of a leadership moving the

        18       judicial system.  Whether you agree or not on

        19       how that system is being moved, no one can

        20       disagree that they have taken a very

        21       affirmative hold on the leadership of the

        22       judicial system, and they're carrying out in

        23       the best interests of that system a change to

        24       move us into the next century, and in that

        25       vein, particularly the chief administrative







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         1       judge, Jon Lippman, has done an excellent

         2       job.

         3                      There is no doubt that this

         4       state's judicial system would be in a far

         5       worse position were it not for his two and a

         6       half years of leadership as the chief

         7       administrative judge and although we are today

         8       merely concerned with his renomination as a

         9       judge of the Court of Claims, it is that

        10       basis, that basis to be called Judge Jonathan

        11       Lippman, and, therefore, the chief

        12       administrative judge, that is before this body

        13       and I very proudly for one stand up, one, to

        14       congratulate him on his renomination but, two,

        15       on behalf of this body, the Senate of the

        16       state, to thank him for everything that he has

        17       done for the entire population of the state

        18       and for his friendship and for his cooperation

        19       to myself and particularly to the members of

        20       this body.

        21                      So, Jon, congratulations to you

        22       today for your renomination and, again, thanks

        23       for everything that you've done for all of

        24       us.

        25                      Thank you, Mr. President.







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         1                      (Applause)

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         3       Thank you.

         4                      Thank you, Senator Lack.

         5                      The chair recognizes Senator

         6       Stafford.

         7                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                      All of these are fine, fine

        10       appointments, Mr. President, to the judiciary,

        11       and the difference in the judiciary, we have

        12       to be provincial here in this body and I have

        13       to point out that Judge Ruderman has ties to

        14       upstate New York and that I'd be less than

        15       doing my job if I didn't say that, but

        16       together all of these appointments are just

        17       fine, and I have to say this about Judge

        18       Lippman.  I wanted to point this out.  I've

        19       been around a while, and whether you're a

        20       judge or whatever you do, Judge Lippman has

        21       some attributes that are in a very difficult

        22       job, and as was pointed out here earlier, and

        23       I think it really bodes well for the entire

        24       state.

        25                      He listens.  He does his best







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         1       to be fair and even if he has to say so, which

         2       unfortunately we all have to do, but in his

         3       position I'm sure he'd enjoy most of the time

         4        -- most of the time would enjoy saying yes

         5       more, but maybe that isn't the case either,

         6       but what I'm trying to say, if you don't agree

         7       with Judge Lippman, if you drove by his home

         8       in the middle of the night, you wouldn't

         9       hesitate to knock on the door and say, "I ran

        10       out of gas, and would you give me -- share

        11       with me, please, some fuel."  What I mean is

        12       that is the type of individual he is.  He does

        13       it so well and, again, together with all of

        14       the appointments, this is a fine day for us

        15       here in the state of New York.

        16                      Thank you.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        18       Thank you, Senator Stafford.

        19                      Senator Rath.

        20                      SENATOR RATH:  Mr. President,

        21       it gives me a great deal of pleasure to rise

        22       and congratulate Judge Lippman on his

        23       reappointment and to speak on behalf of some

        24       folks who aren't here, but some folks I know

        25       very well, the Association of Supreme Court







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         1       Justices who, with your direction, Judge

         2       Lippman, have managed to yet again function

         3       for another year and looking to you for

         4       leadership, you are there with them at every

         5       step of the road.  They know that; they

         6       appreciate that and, as Senator Lack so

         7       clearly pointed out, there are differences of

         8       opinion, but that does not mean that in a

         9       system such as ours that the differences

        10       cannot be aired, cannot be reviewed and found

        11       the best consensus to move forward.

        12                      We have a great and wonderful

        13       tradition in this country of three sections of

        14       government, and I think that having the

        15       greatest respect for the judiciary as they

        16       respect the Legislature and we all respect the

        17       execute, that tradition, I think, stands

        18       strong, and I know that Judge Lippman will be

        19       there to safeguard that tradition.

        20                      Good luck, Judge.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        22       Senator Leichter.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes.  Mr.

        24       President, I too want to take this opportunity

        25       to acknowledge the superb work that Judge







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         1       Lippman has done as the chief administrative

         2       judge of the state of New York.  It's an

         3       extremely difficult position and only because

         4       of the myriads of courts we have, and the

         5       large judicial establishment that we have, but

         6       also because you're dealing with judges who

         7       are elected, some are appointed.  It requires

         8       a great deal of delicacy in dealing with them,

         9       and Judge Lippman has shown that tact at the

        10       same time that he has moved the system

        11       forward.  He's made it more efficient,

        12       coordinated the functions of the judiciary.

        13                      Senator Lack mentioned today

        14       the Judiciary Committee, and it ought to be

        15       said that that same diplomacy, that same tact

        16       and that same ability working with people has

        17       also characterized Judge Lippman's

        18       relationship with the Legislature, and I think

        19       it never mattered to him whether you're

        20       Majority, Minority, how long you've been in

        21       the Legislature.  He treats every legislator

        22       very fairly.  He's accessible; he's

        23       available.  He responds.  He really is an

        24       important part of making this judicial system

        25       work, and I think that under Chief Judge Kaye







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         1       and with Judge Lippman, I think we have seen a

         2       judicial system that much better responds to

         3       enormous demands and great needs that are

         4       placed on it.

         5                      We're fortunate to have a

         6       judicial system that has so many fine judges.

         7       I see one of them sitting right in our midst

         8       here, Judge Mega, but to bring it and have it

         9       function as a whole requires exceptional skill

        10       and that is what Judge Lippman has brought to

        11       this position.  So I'm delighted to join with

        12       my friends here in confirming Judge Lippman

        13       and wishing him success as a Court of Claims

        14       judge who will continue to administer the

        15       courts of the state of New York.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        17       Thank you, Senator Leichter.

        18                      Senator Velella.

        19                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Mr.

        20       President, now that he's leaving, I finally

        21       find something that I agree with Senator

        22       Leichter on -- incredible, Franz.

        23                      But let me say that certainly

        24       Judge Lippman has been an effective

        25       administrator and a good judge.  One who's a







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         1       good and effective an administrator sets a

         2       good for example, and I don't know how many

         3       people that are here can say they are the

         4       first one in every morning in their office

         5       before any of the staff, and that's the way

         6       Judge Lippman does the administration of our

         7       court system.  I think he has done an

         8       outstanding job.  I have not always agreed

         9       with him on everything he does, but he's got a

        10       reason, sometimes wrong, for what he does.

        11                      Let me say that I look forward

        12       to working together with him for a long time

        13       to come, and congratulate him on his

        14       appointment.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        16       Thank you, Senator Velella.

        17                      Senator Dollinger.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                      I'm always fascinated when I go

        21       out to my community and I meet with the state

        22       Supreme Court Judges and they talk about

        23       specific issues, and then the door closes and

        24       they all whisper quietly, Boy, OCA, they're

        25       the problem.  Then I go to the lawyers, and we







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         1       have a meeting with the bar association, and

         2       someone whispers behind the door, Boy, it's

         3       all OCA's fault.  And then I go to the court

         4       reporters, and they all say, Boy, it's always

         5       a problem with OCA.

         6                      What they all uniformly also

         7       agree on is that Jon Lippman has done a

         8       fabulous job, and my recommendation to you,

         9       Judge, is figure out another name for that

        10       thing they call OCA, change the name.  It will

        11       be four or five years before everybody knows

        12       what to call it, but the bottom line is, you

        13       have been an agent of change.  You have taken

        14       a system that for 150 years was resilient to

        15       change, composed of judges and lawyers, people

        16       who liked the way they practiced, don't like

        17       to be held accountable to the people of this

        18       state or to this Legislature.  You have been

        19       at the forefront of creating that

        20       accountability and creating a system that

        21       serves the needs of the people of our state.

        22                      I applaud your work; I applaud

        23       the work of the chief judge.  You're on the

        24       right path.  Although you may get a lot of

        25       blame and you may hear those disgruntled







                                                          2833

         1       voices from time to time, don't lose your

         2       steam.  Keep it up, you're doing the right

         3       thing, and I enthusiastically vote in favor of

         4       this nomination as a continuation down the

         5       path of making our courts courts that serve

         6       the people's interest.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         8       Thank you, Senator Dollinger.

         9                      The chair recognizes Senator

        10       Roy Goodman.

        11                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr.

        12       President, it's a pleasure and a privilege to

        13       rise as a non-member of the legal profession

        14       to comment upon the extraordinary capacity of

        15       Judge Lippman.

        16                      It's one thing to be a judge

        17       and a fine lawyer, but it's quite another to

        18       be a capable administrator, and I must say it

        19       is an exceptional rarity to find an individual

        20       who is able to clearly demonstrate skills of

        21       the highest order in both departments.

        22                      As the administrative judge,

        23       this particular individual is charged with

        24       immense and complicated administrative

        25       responsibilities requiring the highest skill,







                                                          2834

         1       tact, diplomacy, energy, and sheer guts and,

         2       if I may say so, having observed Judge Lippman

         3       testify before the joint legislative

         4       committees budgets, it's quite clear that his

         5       Phi Beta Kappa key was well earned, because

         6       his brain has obviously not deteriorated since

         7       his college days.  He is able to give you a

         8       very complex discussion of any aspect of the

         9       judicial budget which you question him about,

        10       and I've observed this with great admiration

        11       on several occasions over the years.

        12                      Mr. President, I am not -- he

        13       is not directly my constituent, but I do have

        14       a week end house in the country which is

        15       probably about 3,000 yards from where Judge

        16       Lippman lives and I, therefore, feel it ap

        17       propriate to comment upon the fact that I hope

        18       that he enjoys the recreational activities

        19       afforded him by that neighborhood.  I doubt

        20       that he has much time for it, but look forward

        21       to encountering him in the Pepsi-Cola World

        22       Headquarters where sculpture and works of art

        23       abound, and I hope that we'll have an

        24       opportunity to see him, and I congratulate him

        25       most warmly on this richly deserved







                                                          2835

         1       appointment.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         3       Thank you, Senator Goodman.

         4                      Senator Oppenheimer.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Well, I

         6       don't have a summer house in the district, but

         7       I'm very proud that you're -- you're living in

         8       my district, and thank you for touting,

         9       Senator Goodman, the wonderful recreation

        10       opportunities -- recreational opportunities

        11       available in my Senate District.

        12                      I also am not in the legal

        13       profession, and you don't have to be in the

        14       legal profession to know what has been

        15       accomplished by Judge Lippman.  He has not

        16       only made an accessible court, an efficient

        17       court, but one that has garnered a great deal

        18       of praise from people both within the legal

        19       community and outside of the legal community.

        20                      So much has been said about his

        21       efficiency and his accessibility, and the

        22       wonderful combination of legal talent and

        23       organizational/managerial talent, but I would

        24       like to just take a moment to talk about the

        25       fact that this man and his family live in my







                                                          2836

         1       district.  They are decent, warm, generous

         2       people and have added greatly to the community

         3       life, and I would like that to be noted on the

         4       record too, and we are just very, very

         5       fortunate that he is willing to really give so

         6       much of himself to the legal system and to the

         7       people of New York, and we thank you for that,

         8       Judge.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        10       Thank you, Senator Oppenheimer.

        11                      The question is on the

        12       confirmation of Jonathan Lippman of Rye Brook

        13       as judge of the Court of Claims.  All in favor

        14       signify by saying aye.

        15                      (Response of "Aye.")

        16                      Opposed nay.

        17                      (There was no response. )

        18                      Jonathan Lippman is hereby

        19       confirmed as judge of the Court of Claims, and

        20       Jonathan Lippman is joined today by his wife

        21       Amy and his mother-in-law, Renee Fiedler, and

        22       let me allow one comment, if I may: You are a

        23       terrific judge.  May you continue a great

        24       tenure, and the accolades have been

        25       consistently wonderful.  Good luck in your







                                                          2837

         1       tenure.

         2                      (Applause)

         3                      Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  As a judge of

         5       the Court of Claims, Diane L. Fitzpatrick, of

         6       Tully.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         8       Senator Lack.

         9                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      I rise to move the nomination

        12       of Diane L. Fitzpatrick, of Tully, as a judge

        13       of the Court of Claims.  Her credentials have

        14       been examined by the -- by the staff of the

        15       committee.  They have been found to be totally

        16       in order.  She appeared before the committee

        17       this morning, was unanimously moved to the

        18       floor, and I would be pleased to yield for

        19       purposes of a seconding to Senator Ray Meier.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        21       Senator Meier.

        22                      SENATOR MEIER:  On behalf of

        23       myself and also Senator Alesi, I'm honored to

        24       rise and support the nomination of Diane

        25       Fitzpatrick to the Court of Claims.  But I







                                                          2838

         1       just want to note as an aside, as we look at

         2       the calendar today, four of the distinguished

         3       jurists whom we've confirmed are women, and I

         4       need to tell a true story.

         5                      My wife and I have some friends

         6       who live in Connecticut, husband and wife,

         7       both lawyers, he a corporate lawyer, she a

         8       local criminal court judge.  They have a

         9       four-year-old son named Charlie.  One day I

        10       said to Charlie, "Think you might want to be a

        11       lawyer some day or even a judge, like your

        12       mom?" And Charlie said, "Nah, I don't want to

        13       be a judge."  I said, "Why not?" He said,

        14       "Because that's a girl's job."

        15                      Well, Charlie may be onto

        16       something, and we in society are onto

        17       something, because we're no longer going to

        18       deprive ourselves of the brains and the

        19       talents and the abilities on the bench or any

        20       place else, of a majority of our population.

        21                      I've known Diane Fitzpatrick

        22       for many years.  Her husband, the district

        23       attorney of Onondaga County, a distinguished

        24       public servant in his own right, was my law

        25       school roommate, and a friend of over 25







                                                          2839

         1       years, and so I have known Diane for some

         2       time.  I've also had the opportunity to know

         3       her as a lawyer and to try cases with her and,

         4       if you look at her law practice, one of the

         5       impressive things is not just that she engages

         6       broadly in the general practice of law, but

         7       even after she attained some measure of

         8       success in the practice, she continued to take

         9       time to do things like serve as a law guardian

        10       to protect the rights of small children, and

        11       she found time for great community involvement

        12       in charitable work and to serve as a local

        13       elected official, and she also found time to

        14       do one heck of a great job as the mother of

        15       Daniel, Sara and Sean.

        16                      Judges find the law in law

        17       books, but judges also find justice and equity

        18       and compassion by having broad experience in

        19       life and by welcoming broad daily contact with

        20       people in every walk of life and, by that

        21       measure, Diane, you will be a great judge.

        22       Diane, Bill, Daniel, Sara and Sean, welcome to

        23       the Senate and, Judge, Godspeed with your

        24       important duties.

        25                      (Applause)







                                                          2840

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         2       question is on the confirmation of Diane L.

         3       Fitzpatrick, of Tully, as judge of the Court

         4       of Claims.  All in favor signify by saying

         5       aye.

         6                      (Response of "Aye.")

         7                      Opposed nay.

         8                      (There was no response. )

         9                      Diane L. Fitzpatrick is hereby

        10       confirmed as judge of the Court of Claims.

        11       Congratulations, and joining the judge in the

        12       chamber today are her husband, William and

        13       children Daniel, Sara and Sean.

        14       Congratulations, your Honor.

        15                      (Applause).

        16                      The Secretary will read.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  As a judge of

        18       the Court of Claims, Susan Phillips Read, of

        19       West Sand Lake.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        21       Senator Lack.

        22                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      I rise to move the nomination

        25       of Susan Phillips Read as a judge of the Court







                                                          2841

         1       of Claims.  Ms. Read's credentials have been

         2       examined by the committee.  She appeared

         3       before the committee this morning and was

         4       unanimously moved to the floor.

         5                      It's -- I have a couple

         6       comments of my own.  It's a great pleasure to

         7       welcome into the Court of Claims somebody with

         8       the experience of Susan Read.  She, of course,

         9       went to Ohio Wesleyan University where, since

        10       she's sitting next to Judge Lippman, they can

        11       trade their Phi Beta Kappa keys with each

        12       other.  She then went to one of the most

        13       distinguished law schools in the country,

        14       University of Chicago Law School where, of

        15       course, she graduated and was admitted into

        16       New York.

        17                      What I am particularly pleased

        18       about is that she brings to the bench a great

        19       knowledge of our system, having just completed

        20       several years as Deputy Counsel to the

        21       Governor.

        22                      I would like to make it a

        23       requirement -- unfortunately, I can't -- that

        24       before assuming the bench that judges have a

        25       knowledge of the process of how the executive







                                                          2842

         1       and the legislative bodies of this state

         2       actually work.  Since we can't, I'd like to

         3       congratulate the Governor for taking somebody

         4       from his own staff who certainly has that

         5       knowledge and putting her on the bench.

         6                      I certainly wish her good stead

         7       in her career as a judge, and advancement in

         8       that career.  Perhaps if we can do some of the

         9       restructuring proposals that are before this

        10       house and the Assembly, she will certainly

        11       have that chance to do so in the future, to

        12       reflect upon her experience of the executive

        13       and her knowledge of the legislative process

        14       as a member of the judiciary.

        15                      But I again congratulate her

        16       and certainly the Governor for this

        17       appointment because I do consider it to be a

        18       very good idea that our process include people

        19       entirely familiar with how every division of

        20       this government works and for purposes of

        21       second, I would be happy to yield to Senator

        22       Breslin.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        24       Senator Breslin.

        25                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  Thank you,







                                                          2843

         1       Senator Lack.  Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                      I rise to second the nomination

         3       of Susan Read, who has been a long time friend

         4       of over 20 years, who after her University of

         5       Chicago Law School days became the most

         6       prominent litigator and environmental lawyer

         7       for General Electric and subsequent to that,

         8       became a key player for Bond, Schoeneck &

         9       King, one of our most respected law firms in

        10       the state of New York, and the Governor chose

        11       her to be his deputy counsel.

        12                      Susan Read was chosen because

        13       she is bright; she's honest, capable, with no

        14       hidden agenda, and she will bring that wealth

        15       of experience and knowledge to the Court of

        16       Claims, and she will bring a dimension, an a

        17       political dimension, and the Governor should

        18       be complimented for his choice, and I wish

        19       Susan Read and her very distinguished husband

        20       and fellow lawyer, all the success in the

        21       world.

        22                      Congratulations.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        24       Thank you, Senator Breslin.

        25                      The question is on the







                                                          2844

         1       confirmation of Susan Phillips Read, of West

         2       Sand Lake as judge of the Court of Claims.

         3       All in favor signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye.")

         5                      Opposed nay.

         6                      (There was no response. )

         7                      Susan Phillips Read is hereby

         8       confirmed as judge of the Court of Claims.

         9                      Congratulations, your Honor,

        10       and joining Judge Read in the chamber today is

        11       her husband, Howard, mother Elizabeth

        12       Phillips, sisters Ann Polichene and Mary

        13       Phillips, and niece Beth Rabatin.

        14                      Congratulations, your Honor.

        15                      (Applause)

        16                      Reports of select committees.

        17                      Communications and reports from

        18       state officers.

        19                      Motions and resolutions.

        20                      The chair recognizes Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.  On behalf of Senator Velella, I

        24       wish to call up his bill, Print Number 6255-A,

        25       recalled from the Assembly which is now at the







                                                          2845

         1       desk.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         5       Velella, Senate Print 6255-A, an act to amend

         6       the Insurance Law.

         7                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

         8       President, I now move to reconsider the vote

         9       by which this bill was passed.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        11       Secretary will call the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the roll

        13       on reconsideration. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        15                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        16       President, I now offer the following

        17       amendments.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        19       Amendments are received.

        20                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        21       President, on behalf of Senator Meier, on page

        22       number 12, I offer the following amendments to

        23       Calendar Number 115, Senate Print Number

        24       2497-A, and ask that said bill retain its

        25       place on the Third Reading Calendar.







                                                          2846

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         2       Amendments received and so ordered that those

         3       bills will retain their place on the Third

         4       Reading Calendar.

         5                      Senator Skelos.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         7       I believe there are two privileged resolutions

         8       at the desk that I have sponsored.  May we

         9       please have the titles read and move for their

        10       immediate adoption.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        12       Secretary will read.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        14       Skelos, commending the Stecher and Horowitz

        15       School of the Arts upon the occasion of

        16       honoring Miriam and Seymour B. Jeffries, Sonja

        17       and Alvin I. Kahn and Bernyce and Herbert R.

        18       Winick, for their dedicated service and

        19       participation in the development of the

        20       school.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        22       Senator Skelos.

        23                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move the

        24       resolution.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The







                                                          2847

         1       question is on the resolution.  All those in

         2       favor signify by saying aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye.")

         4                      Opposed nay.

         5                      (There was no response. )

         6                      The resolution is adopted.

         7                      The Secretary will read.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         9       Skelos, Legislative Resolution commemorating

        10       the 75th Anniversary of Temple Beth El, Cedar

        11       hurst, New York, and honoring outgoing

        12       president, Allan Kroningold.

        13                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Move the

        14       resolution.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        16       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        17       favor signify by saying aye.

        18                      (Response of "Aye.")

        19                      Opposed nay.

        20                      (There was no response. )

        21                      The resolution is adopted.

        22                      Secretary will read

        23       substitutions.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 4,

        25       Senator LaValle moves to discharge from the







                                                          2848

         1       Committee on Local Government Assembly Bill

         2       6005-B and substitute it for the identical

         3       Senate bill, 3314-A.

         4                      On page 8, Senator Johnson

         5       moves to discharge from the Committee on

         6       Finance assembly Bill 2587 and substitute it

         7       for the identical Senate bill 1765.

         8                      On page 9, Senator Stafford

         9       moves to discharge from the Committee on

        10       Finance Assembly Bill 9999-A and substitute it

        11       for the identical Senate Bill 6565-A.

        12                      On page 9, Senator Spano moves

        13       to discharge from the Committee on Finance

        14       Assembly Bill 10031 and substitute it for the

        15       identical Senate Bill 6671.

        16                      On page 23, Senator Spano moves

        17       to discharge from the Committee on Labor

        18       Assembly Bill 925 and substitute it for the

        19       identical Senate Bill 6261.

        20                      On page 27, Senator Balboni

        21       moves to discharge from the Committee on Water

        22       Resources Assembly Bill 9663 and substitute it

        23       for the identical Senate Bill 6706.

        24                      On page 33, Senator Trunzo

        25       moves to discharge from the Committee on







                                                          2849

         1       Finance Assembly Bill 10283 and substitute it

         2       for the identical Senate Bill 6853.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         4       Substitutions so ordered.

         5                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         8       Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Would you

        10       please call a meeting of the Housing

        11       Construction and Community Development

        12       Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        14       There will be an immediate meeting of the

        15       Housing Construction and -- and some other

        16       part of it -- I forget -- what is it? -

        17       Community Resources, sorry about that, Senator

        18       Leibell, in the Majority Conference Room.

        19       Please, all members proceed to that room now.

        20                      Senator Skelos.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        22       as we move to the calendar, would you first

        23       call up first 658, Senate 6853.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        25       Secretary will read.







                                                          2850

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       658, substituted earlier today, by member of

         3       the Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Bill 10283,

         4       an act to amend the Executive Law and the

         5       State Finance Law.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

         7       the last section.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         9       This act shall take effect immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        11       the roll.

        12                      (The Secretary called the

        13       roll. )

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        18       if we could now move to the non-controversial

        19       calendar.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        21       Secretary will read.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       181, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5470, an

        24       act authorizing the SUNY college of

        25       Environmental Science and Forestry at Syracuse







                                                          2851

         1       University.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

         3       the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

         5       This act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

         7       the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the

         9       roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       406, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6150, an

        15       act to amend the New York Health Care Reform

        16       Act of 1996.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

        18       the last section.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        20       This act shall take effect immediately.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        22       the roll.

        23                      (The Secretary called the

        24       roll. )

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.







                                                          2852

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       518, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6412-A, an

         5       act to amend the Retirement and Social

         6       Security Law.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

         8       the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        10       This act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        12       the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the

        14       roll. )

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        19       539, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 647, an

        20       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        21       relation to indexing.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

        23       the last section.

        24                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside,

        25       please.







                                                          2853

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Lay

         2       that bill aside.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       543, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1378, an

         5       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         6       relation to creating the town of Southampton.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

         8       the last section.  Home rule message is at the

         9       desk.  Read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        11       This act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the

        15       roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       544, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 1767, an

        21       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

        22       relation to allowing municipalities to extend

        23       the redemption period.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

        25       the last section.







                                                          2854

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         2       This act shall take effect immediately.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

         4       the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the

         6       roll. )

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       547, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2378, an

        12       act to amend the County Law, in relation to

        13       permitting district attorneys.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

        15       the last section.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        17       This act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        19       the roll.

        20                      (The Secretary called the

        21       roll. )

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                          2855

         1       581, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4056-A,

         2       an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

         3       providing.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

         5       the last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         7       This act shall take effect immediately.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

         9       the roll.

        10                      (The Secretary called the

        11       roll. )

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       582, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4081-A,

        17       an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        18       authorizing.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

        20       the last section.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        22       This act shall take effect immediately.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        24       the roll.

        25                      (The Secretary called the







                                                          2856

         1       roll. )

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       599, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5183,

         7       an act to amend the Executive Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

         9       the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        11       This act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        13       the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the

        15       roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        20       600, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6606,

        21       an act to amend the Executive Law.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Read

        23       the last section.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

        25       This act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          2857

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

         2       the roll.

         3                      (The Secretary called the

         4       roll. )

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                      Senator Skelos.

         9                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        10       I believe there is just one calendar -- one

        11       bill on the non -- on the controversial

        12       calendar, Calendar 539, by Senator Joe

        13       Holland.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        15       Secretary will read.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       539, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 647, an

        18       act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:

        20       Explanation.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        22       Senator Holland, an explanation has been asked

        23       for.

        24                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Of course, it

        25       will be short.







                                                          2858

         1                      This -- you question this bill

         2       every year.  I really can't understand it,

         3       since it should save money for all taxpayers

         4       in the municipalities, and the municipalities,

         5       Senator, and you know what it does.

         6                      It changes the rate of interest

         7       paid by municipalities upon judgments or

         8       claims against the municipality from a

         9       discretionary amount not to exceed 9 percent,

        10       to the prime rate, but with a cap at 9 percent

        11       to prevent the rate from becoming excessive

        12       for municipalities and local taxpayers.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        14       Senator Paterson.

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Would

        16       Senator Holland yield for a couple questions?

        17                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, sir.

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  That's

        19       encouraging, Senator.

        20                      Senator, are you aware of a

        21       Court of Appeals decision December 17th of

        22       1997 in the case of Rodriguez versus New York

        23       City Housing Authority, where the Court of

        24       Appeals ruled that the 9 percent is a maximum,

        25       not a mandate?







                                                          2859

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  And that -

         3       you are aware of that?

         4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, sir, I

         5       am, but the problem is the judges always give

         6       9 percent.  They do not, as they are able to

         7       do within the context of this law, make it 8

         8       or 7 or 6, or whatever they want to make it,

         9       so we're trying to limit the amount of money

        10       that it costs.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, thank

        12       you, Mr. President.

        13                      Senator Holland, the reason I

        14       brought that case up is because in that case,

        15       the defendant proposed 3.5 percent as the

        16       interest rate, and the court, as it usually

        17       does, prescribed 9 percent and the Appellate

        18       Division unheld, but the Court of Appeals

        19       reversed and it actually said that a lower

        20       rate could actually be used if the lower rate

        21       that was proposed was actually reasonable.  So

        22       my question is, isn't what you're trying to

        23       accomplish actually something that already

        24       would exist now based on the dicta in the

        25       Court of Appeals decision?







                                                          2860

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, it is,

         2       Senator, but we're trying to put it in law

         3       because what happens is exactly what I've

         4       explained to you before, the judges always or

         5       usually set the rate at 9 percent.  They do

         6       not set it lower than 9 percent and we're

         7       trying to put that into law.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  O.K. I

         9       understand, Senator.  If the Senator would

        10       yield to another question?

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes, sir.

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, do

        13       you -- why have you created a situation where

        14       you put a cap on the elevated interest rate

        15       but you don't have a floor? You have a ceiling

        16       but you have no floor, so in other words if

        17       the prime rate went down to 4 percent or

        18       something like that, and that became the

        19       interest rate that would really discourage

        20       defendants from even responding.  In other

        21       words, this would be the classic way of

        22       avoiding any kind of outside settlement, and

        23       so, in other words the problem I have with the

        24       legislation is that it's not really

        25       even-handed.







                                                          2861

         1                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Senator, I

         2       think it is even-handed.  I think it's a

         3       reasonable thing to do, and that's why I've

         4       limited it to 9 percent.

         5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  O.K.,

         6       Senator, one final question.  What if the

         7       prime rate went up to something like 14

         8       percent? The prime rate has gone up before.

         9       Now, you're going to have a prime rate which

        10       is so much higher than the interest rate.

        11                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  That's a cap,

        12       that's a cap at 9 percent.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  No, but I'm

        14       saying the interest rate on the money itself

        15       would enure to the benefit of the defendant

        16       because the defendant is sitting there making

        17       money at a 14 percent rate and paying it back

        18       at a 9 percent rate.  It would actually be an

        19       incentive not to pay it back.  In other words,

        20       if the -- the general average of the amount of

        21       money that someone can make just by holding

        22       their money goes up high enough, your interest

        23       rate is now too low, and what I'm saying is

        24       we'd have to come back here and do something

        25       because now it would actually reward







                                                          2862

         1       defendants for not paying back their

         2       judgment.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Well, that's

         4       true, Senator.  I agree with you on that one,

         5       but you know -

         6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I'll stop

         7       right there.

         8                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  No, no.  You

         9       know as well as I do that it was set at 3

        10       percent before, and it's been raised to 9 and

        11       I'm sure that we could adjust it if necessary

        12       later on.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  O.K. Then

        14       Mr. President, on the bill.

        15                      I just don't think we need to

        16       keep coming back here and readjusting it.  I

        17       think actually some legislation proposed by

        18       Senator Volker, Senate 3730, where he's

        19       talking about a more flexible rate kind of,

        20       the way the Tax Commission uses for taxpayers,

        21       something that's a little more flexible or

        22       responsive might be actually the answer; but I

        23       understand the concern that Senator Holland is

        24        -- I understand the concern that Senator

        25       Holland has raised, but I just don't think







                                                          2863

         1       that this is the way to solve it, and it's

         2       really not even-handed because it sets a

         3       ceiling but no floor.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         5       Thank you, Senator Paterson.

         6                      Read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         8       This act shall take effect on November 1st.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the

        12       roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        14       in the negative on Calendar Number 539 are

        15       Senators Connor, Dollinger, Gentile, Leichter,

        16       Paterson and Sampson.  Ayes 49, nays 6.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      Senator Paterson.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        21       President, may we leave the roll open for just

        22       a couple minutes.  We have a couple members

        23       that may want to vote no but are in committee

        24       right now?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:







                                                          2864

         1       Senator Skelos.

         2                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Is there any

         3       housekeeping at the desk?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  I do

         5       not believe so, Senator.

         6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  You can leave

         7       the roll open pending completion of the

         8       Housing Committee, because there are some

         9       members in there that wish to come in and

        10       vote.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  We

        12       will keep the rolls open, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        15       Roll; we will only keep one roll open.

        16                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Recognize

        17       Senator Montgomery and then Senator Seabrook

        18       for the purposes of voting.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        20       Senator Montgomery.

        21                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

        22       President, I'd like to be recorded in the

        23       negative on Calendar Number 539.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

        25       Without objection.







                                                          2865

         1                      Senator Seabrook.

         2                      SENATOR SEABROOK:  Yes, Mr.

         3       President.  I'd like to be recorded in the

         4       negative on roll -- Calendar 539.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

         6       Without objection, that will be done.

         7                      Senator Skelos.

         8                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

         9       there being no further business, I move that

        10       we adjourn until Monday, May 4th at 3:00

        11       p.m., intervening days being legislative

        12       days.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:  The

        14       house stands adjourned until Monday, May 4th,

        15       at 3:00 p.m., the intervening days being

        16       legislative days.

        17                      (Whereupon at 2:18 p.m., the

        18       Senate adjourned. )

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25