Regular Session - May 5, 1998

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         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                     May 5, 1998

        11                      3:02 p.m.

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        14                  REGULAR SESSION

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        18       SENATOR CARL L. MARCELLINO, Acting President

        19       STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

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         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       The Senate will come to order.  All rise and

         4       repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (The assemblage repeated the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         7                      We have with us Bishop Muriel

         8       Grant of the Mount Olivet Discipleship in

         9       Christ, from Brooklyn.

        10                      Bishop?

        11                      BISHOP MURIEL GRANT:  Let us

        12       pray.

        13                      May the infinite power of the

        14       Almighty God be with us.  O God, Who has given

        15       unto us this land for our heritage, may we

        16       prove to be a people mindful of Thy favor and

        17       glad to do Thy will.  We thank You, O God,

        18       even for those others sent before us, our

        19       pioneers who were so directed and guided by

        20       You and were instrumental in the formation of

        21       these United States.

        22                      Bless our land with industry

        23       now, sound living, purity and good mannerism.

        24       Save us, O God, from violence, discord,

        25       confusion, pride and arrogance, and from any







                                                          2956

         1       evil way that will hinder our growth or

         2       unity.  We have now presented ourselves as a

         3       multitude of people which have come hither

         4       from diverse towns and cultures.  Imbue with a

         5       spirit of wisdom those to whom we have

         6       entrusted the authority of government, that

         7       there be justice and peace at home and that

         8       through our obedience to Thy laws, we may

         9       become a people worthy of sharing Thy praise

        10       to other nations of the world.

        11                      Bless the President of these

        12       United States.  Fill our hearts with

        13       thankfulness.  Let not our trust fail in You,

        14       but now, O gracious God, I humbly beseech Thee

        15       not only for the people of these United States

        16       in general but so especially for their Senate

        17       here assembled, Republicans and Democrats,

        18       bless their Senate ruler.  Bless all Senators

        19       here.  Pour down an abundance of Your wisdom

        20       and power upon their counseling session.  Heal

        21       their infirmities.  Direct and prosper all

        22       Senate consultations, giving them wisdom of

        23       laws needed for effective leadership to the

        24       advancement of Thy glory, the good of Thy

        25       church, the safety, honor and welfare of Thy







                                                          2957

         1       people, that things ordered and settled by the

         2       endeavors of these Senators will rest upon the

         3       surest and best foundation of peace and

         4       happiness and justice and piety so that it may

         5       be established amongst us all now and

         6       forever.

         7                      This I pray in the name of my

         8       Savior, my Lord Jesus Christ.  May by the

         9       power of God vested in me the extension of the

        10       blessings of God the Father, the Son and the

        11       Holy Spirit rest and remain with you now and

        12       forever.  Amen.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you,

        14       Bishop.

        15                      We have the reading of the

        16       Journal.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate, May

        18        -- Monday, May 4th.  The Senate met pursuant

        19       to adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, May

        20       3rd, was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        21       adjourned.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        24       as read.

        25                      We have presentation of







                                                          2958

         1       petitions.

         2                      Messages from the Assembly.

         3                      Messages from the Governor.

         4                      Reports of standing

         5       committees.

         6                      Reports of select committees.

         7                      Motions and resolutions.

         8       Senator Cook.

         9                      SENATOR COOK:  Madam or Mr.

        10       President 

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Excuse me?

        13                      SENATOR COOK:  That's what it

        14       says.

        15                      On page 32, I offer the

        16       following amendments to Calendar 651, Senate

        17       Print 6174-A and ask that the said bill retain

        18       its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Amendments received and accepted and the bill

        21       will retain its place on the Third Reading

        22       Calendar.

        23                      We have a substitution.  Can we

        24       take that up now, please? Secretary will read.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 5,







                                                          2959

         1       Senator Farley moves to discharge from the

         2       Committee on Civil Service and Pension

         3       Assembly Print 9167 and substitute it for the

         4       identical Senate Bill 6116.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Substitution is ordered.

         7                      Senator Johnson.

         8                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr.

         9       President, may we please adopt the Resolution

        10       Calendar with the exceptions of Resolutions

        11       3292, 3325, 3326 and 3327?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Senator, we'll do that if we can have some

        14       order in the chamber, please.  We have

        15       conversations.  Can we take them out of the

        16       chamber so we get our work done, please.

        17                      All right.  All in favor of

        18       adopting the Resolution Calendar with the

        19       exceptions of Resolution 3292, 3325, 3326 and

        20       3327 signify by saying aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye.")

        22                      Opposed nay.

        23                      (There was no response. )

        24                      The Resolution Calendar is

        25       adopted with the aforementioned exceptions.







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         1                      Senator Johnson.

         2                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr.

         3       President, I believe we have a privileged

         4       resolution at the desk, and I ask that its

         5       title be read in its entirety and move its

         6       immediate adoption.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Secretary will read.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        10       Bruno, Legislative Resolution commemorating

        11       the 47th consecutive observance of the

        12       National Day of Prayer in the state of New

        13       York, Thursday, May 7th, 1998.

        14                        WHEREAS, it is the sense of

        15       this legislative body to participate in events

        16       of significance to the people of this state

        17       and nation;

        18                      Attendant to such concern and

        19       fully in accord with its long-standing

        20       traditions, it is the intent of this

        21       legislative body to commemorate the 47th

        22       consecutive observance of National Day of

        23       Prayer in the state of New York on Thursday,

        24       May 7th, 1998;

        25                      This legislative body is proud







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         1       to have observed the National Day of Prayer in

         2       Albany for so many years.  This year's fitting

         3       theme is "Turning Our Hearts to God;"

         4                      Prayer has always been an

         5       important part of our nation's heritage.

         6       National Day of Prayer is a tradition first

         7       proclaimed by the Continental Congress in 1775

         8       when John Hancock signed a Congressional order

         9       establishing the first Day of Prayer;

        10                      In keeping with our founding

        11       fathers' faith, civic prayers and national

        12       days of prayer have a long and venerable

        13       history in our constitutional republic.  In

        14       1983, in Marsh versus Chambers the Supreme

        15       Court affirmed the right of state legislatures

        16       to open their sessions with prayer.  The

        17       Supreme Court and the United States Congress

        18       both begin each day with prayer;

        19                      The observance of a National

        20       Day of Prayer became the law of the land in

        21       1952 when a resolution was unanimously passed

        22       by Congress and was signed by President Harry

        23       Truman;

        24                      An amendment to this law was

        25       signed by President Ronald Reagan in 1988







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         1       designating the first Thursday in May as the

         2       annual Day of Prayer;

         3                      National Day of Prayer provides

         4       an opportunity for Americans of all faiths to

         5       join in united prayer to acknowledge our

         6       dependence on God, to give thanks for

         7       blessings received, to request healing for

         8       wounds endured and to ask God to guide our

         9       leaders and bring wholeness to the United

        10       States and her citizens;

        11                      It is fitting and proper to

        12       give thanks to God by observing the National

        13       Day of Prayer in New York State on May 7, 1998

        14       when all may acknowledge our blessings and

        15       express gratitude for them while recognizing

        16       the need for strengthening moral and religious

        17       values in our state and nation;

        18                      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED

        19       that this legislative body pause in its

        20       deliberations to commemorate the 47th

        21       consecutive observance of National Day of

        22       Prayer in the state of New York on Thursday,

        23       May 7th, and to urge the citizens of New York

        24       to observe this day in ways appropriate to its

        25       importance and significance; and







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         1                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a

         2       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed,

         3       be transmitted to the Reverend Stephen Lalor,

         4       Chairperson, National Day of Prayer, Albany

         5       Area Task Force, Glenmont, New York.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       The motion is on the resolution.  All in favor

         8       signify by saying aye.

         9                      (Response of "Aye.")

        10                      Opposed nay.

        11                      (There was no response. )

        12                      The resolution is passed.

        13       Senator Bruno -- Senator Johnson.

        14                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr.

        15       President, just don't call me Sheldon.

        16                      Would you please take up

        17       Resolution Number 3225, by Senator Maziarz,

        18       have it read in its entirety and move its

        19       immediate adoption.

        20                      Thank you.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Yes, Senator Johnson, we will do that, sir.

        23                      Secretary will read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        25       Maziarz, Legislative Resolution memorializing







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         1       the Honorable George E. Pataki, Governor, to

         2       proclaim May 5th, 1998 as Senior Citizen Day

         3       in New York State.

         4                      WHEREAS, the more than 3

         5       million residents of New York State 60 years

         6       of age and older are vital, integral and

         7       contributing members of our society;

         8                      The more than 3 million senior

         9       citizens residing in the state of New York

        10       have contributed to the commonwealth of the

        11       state by building and helping preserve the

        12       customs, traditions and ideals of the many

        13       ethnic groups that make up the mosaic of New

        14       York State;

        15                      The wisdom and experience of

        16       senior citizens constantly enrich the lives of

        17       the young people of our state through a strong

        18       tradition of volunteerism;

        19                      Since 1962, the month of May

        20       has been declared by Presidential Proclamation

        21       Older Americans Month in order for communities

        22       around the nation to set time aside to

        23       celebrate and reflect on the unique role older

        24       Americans play in the fabric of our society;

        25                      The legislative and executive







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         1       branches of the New York State government have

         2       as a primary goal the improvement of the

         3       quality of life of older New Yorkers and the

         4       assurance of their continued dignity;

         5                      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED

         6       that this legislative body pause in its

         7       deliberations to memorialize the Honorable

         8       George E. Pataki, Governor, to proclaim May

         9       5th, 1998 as Senior Citizen Day in the state

        10       of New York and,

        11                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that all

        12       the residents of New York State are urged to

        13       honor all citizens who are the cornerstone of

        14       the strength of our nation and to whom a debt

        15       of gratitude is owed; and

        16                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a

        17       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed,

        18       be transmitted to the Honorable George E.

        19       Pataki, Governor.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       The motion is on the resolution.  All in favor

        22       signify by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye.")

        24                      Opposed nay.

        25                      (There was no response. )







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         1                      Senator Maziarz, you wish to

         2       explain your vote?

         3                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you

         4       very much, Mr. President.

         5                      On behalf of myself as chair of

         6       the Senate Aging Committee and on behalf of

         7       Senator Hugh Farley as the former chair of the

         8       Senate Aging Committee who is aging as we

         9       speak, it is with great pleasure and

        10       admiration of the senior citizens of New York

        11       that I stand before my colleagues and guests

        12       today memorializing our Governor to proclaim

        13       May 5th, 1998 as Senior Citizens Day in the

        14       state of New York.

        15                      In my second year as chair of

        16       the Senate Aging Committee, I have to say that

        17       Senior Citizen Day has become a very important

        18       day for me, and it's one I look forward to

        19       with vigor.  Through their sacrifices and

        20       tireless volunteer efforts, seniors have made

        21       New York State a better place to live and work

        22       for all of us.  Senior citizens have made

        23       remarkable contributions to all facets of

        24       society, including children, the disabled and

        25       the frail elderly.







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         1                      Today we attempt to give back a

         2       small fraction of what their many years of

         3       service, contribution and dedication have so

         4       unselfishly given to their respective

         5       communities.

         6                      I would urge all of my

         7       colleagues to talk about this day, and I would

         8       open this resolution and invite all members to

         9       sign on as co-sponsors.  I would take the 

        10       take the liberty, however, Mr. President, of

        11       asking the secretary to sign Senator Farley on

        12       as a co-sponsor as he doesn't want to stand up

        13       on his own right.  He's a little tired today.

        14                      Thank you, Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       We will accept all members on the resolution

        17       unless you wish not to be.  If you wish not to

        18       be on the resolution, let the Chair know.

        19       Otherwise, everyone will be placed on the

        20       resolution.

        21                      The resolution is passed.

        22       Senator Johnson, please.

        23                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr.

        24       President, would you please have Resolution

        25       3266, by Senator Holland, read in its entirety







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         1       and move its immediate adoption.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

         5       Holland, Legislative Resolution, commending

         6       Timothny P. Finn upon the occasion of his

         7       designation as the recipient of the 1998 New

         8       York State Senior Citizen of the Year Award.

         9                      WHEREAS senior citizens bring

        10       their special wisdom, experience and

        11       enthusiasm to countless endeavors helping to

        12       shape and strengthen the character of the

        13       communities of the state of New York and the

        14       quality of our lives;

        15                      It is the sense of this

        16       legislative body to recognize and honor the

        17       senior citizens of New York State for their

        18       diverse talents and generous service on behalf

        19       of others;

        20                      In conjunction with the

        21       celebration of Senior Citizen Day in New York

        22       State on May 5th, 1998, this legislative body

        23       takes great pleasure in honoring Timothy P.

        24       Finn as the 1998 Senior Citizen of the Year;

        25                      The Senior Citizen of the Year







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         1       Award recognizes a senior citizen who has

         2       tirelessly advocated on behalf of seniors and

         3       has assisted in providing needed support

         4       services and activities which enhance the

         5       lives of senior citizens;

         6                      Timothy P. Finn, of Orangeburg,

         7       New York, truly exemplifies these qualities;

         8                      As a member of the New York

         9       City Police Department now retired, Timothy

        10       Finn organized Shields, a fraternal

        11       organization for law enforcement officers as

        12       soon as he moved to Rockland County in 1966.

        13       In addition to its work with disabled children

        14       at the Rockland Psychiatric Children's

        15       Hospital, Shields works diligently to inform

        16       senior citizens about the various scams

        17       perpetrated on the elderly and counsels

        18       seniors on the protection of their property

        19       and finances;

        20                      Timothy Finn is a tireless

        21       advocate for the needs and protections of

        22       senior citizens.  Since his retirement from

        23       the New York City Police Department, he has

        24       dedicated his dynamic and industrious efforts

        25       to lobbying actively and advising on







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         1       legislative matters affecting seniors on the

         2       local, state and national levels;

         3                      As an active member of the

         4       American Association of Retired Persons, AARP,

         5       Timothy Finn has become a national

         6       spokesperson on health and economic issues

         7       affecting senior citizens, including health

         8       care, social security, consumer protection,

         9       retirement packages and tax and other policies

        10       affecting pension recipients.  He was also

        11       instrumental in improving and publicizing the

        12       EPIC prescription drug program for senior

        13       citizens;

        14                      In addition to his service as

        15       chairman of the AARP Committee on Pensions and

        16       New York State's AARP Legislative chair and

        17       national spokesperson, Timothy Finn is a New

        18       York Veteran Police Association's

        19       vice-president and legislative chairman; chair

        20       of the Executive Committee of the Rockland

        21       County Health Care Coalition and a member of

        22       the Orangetown Senior Citizen Advisory

        23       Committee, Rockland County Senior Advisory

        24       Committee and the New York State Advisory

        25       Committee on the Aged and the Senate







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         1       Commission to Restructure Services for the

         2       Aging;

         3                      WHEREAS, through all these

         4       endeavors, Timothy Finn has demonstrated

         5       unflagging commitment to the improvement of

         6       the quality of life of our state and nation's

         7       senior citizens and the enhancement of human

         8       dignity;

         9                      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED

        10       that this legislative body pause in its

        11       deliberations to most joyously recognize the

        12       significance of Timothy P. Finn's

        13       contributions with its 1998 Senior Citizen of

        14       the Year Award; and

        15                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a

        16       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed,

        17       be transmitted to Timothy P. Finn.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Question is on the resolution.  All in favor

        20       signify by saying aye.

        21                      (Response of "Aye.")

        22                      Opposed nay.

        23                      (There was no response. )

        24                      Senator Holland to explain his

        25       vote.  Can we have some order in the chamber,







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         1       please.  Please!

         2                      Senator Holland.

         3                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr.

         4       President, I am extremely pleased to announce

         5       that New York State's Senior Citizen of the

         6       Year for 1998 is my Rockland County neighbor

         7       Tim Finn.

         8                      Tim has some -- Tim Finn has

         9       been active in Rockland County as a volunteer

        10       since 1966 when he moved to Rockland and

        11       founded the Shields which today is the

        12       county's largest fraternal organization of law

        13       enforcement officers.  For many years Tim and

        14       the Shields sponsored a Christmas party for

        15       children at the Rockland County Psychiatric

        16       Center.  Upon his retirement as a decorated

        17       New York City police officer, Tim decided to

        18       put his numerous abilities to work on behalf

        19       of retirees and senior citizens.

        20                      He served as a special

        21       assistant to Senate Minority Leader Manny

        22       Ohrenstein and joined the American Association

        23       of Retired Persons where he rose to the

        24       position of president and legislative

        25       chairperson representing AARP's members before







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         1       state and national lawmakers.

         2                      Many of us here like to think

         3       we shape public policy.  However, it is the

         4       people like Tim Finn who drive successful

         5       grass root campaigns to make new laws, change

         6       outdated ones and get rid of laws that are

         7       burdensome or just plain ineffective.

         8                      His efforts over the years on

         9       the local, state and national level have

        10       included working for pension increases for

        11       retirees he represented, helping protect

        12       social security benefits from unnecessary

        13       taxes, supporting more effective Medicaid

        14       legislation and helping more of New York

        15       State's seniors become eligible for the

        16       state's low cost prescription drug program

        17       known as EPIC.

        18                      In our roles as policymakers

        19       and elected officials, we aim to make the

        20       quality of life here one that will allow our

        21       older residents to continue to make New York

        22       their home long after retirement.  With his

        23       conscience and his commitments as his guide,

        24       Tim has helped make New York a more

        25       compassionate and comfortable home for our







                                                          2974

         1       seniors.

         2                      Tim has been recognized many

         3       times before for his dedication to improving

         4       the lives of our senior citizens, most

         5       recently as Rockland County's Senior Citizen

         6       of the Year.  Today's award, which coincides

         7       with the celebration of Senior Citizens Day is

         8       the culmination of years of hard work and

         9       numerous achievements on behalf of the state's

        10       more than 2 million seniors, and I ask that

        11       everyone in the room join with me here today

        12       to welcome Peggy, his wife, Tim Jr., his son,

        13       and Tim Finn, the Senior Citizen of the Year

        14       for New York State.

        15                      Tim, would you please stand

        16       up.

        17                      (Applause)

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Mr. Finn, on behalf of the chamber, we welcome

        20       you and congratulate you on your award and in

        21       spite of Senator Holland's speech, it was

        22       passed unanimously.

        23                      The Chair recognizes Senator 

        24       I believe it's Senator Bruno.

        25                      Senator Bruno.







                                                          2975

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         2       can we at this time take up Calendar Number

         3       670.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Yes, Senator, the Secretary will read Calendar

         6       Number 670.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       670, by member of the Assembly McEneny,

         9       Assembly Print 9999-A, an act to amend the

        10       Public Authorities Law, the Public Buildings

        11       Law, Transportation Law, the Environmental

        12       Conservation Law, in relation to the financing

        13       and construction of certain facilities.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Read the last section.

        16                      Senator Bruno.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yeah.  Mr.

        18       President, on the bill.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Bruno, on the bill.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I would just

        22       like to acknowledge that this bill before us

        23       is the so-called "Albany Plan", and this is

        24       the Albany Plan that we passed, I believe,

        25       last year, some changes.  The Assembly has







                                                          2976

         1       changed -- has passed it and with our passage

         2       it will go on to the Governor and the

         3       Governor, of course, has been very, very

         4       supportive in initiating the activity here and

         5       it will become law, and what it will mean for

         6       the city of Albany which is the capital of New

         7       York State, as we all know, is about $245

         8       million worth of construction, hundreds of

         9       jobs, maybe thousands of jobs in the

        10       construction phase, and most important, state

        11       employees have been working in conditions that

        12       have been unsafe, unhealthy in many respects.

        13       This will help correct that.

        14                      There are two buildings

        15       involved.  There are renovations to two other

        16       buildings, the Alfred E. Smith Building and

        17       the DEC building on Wolf Road.  There will be

        18       a 24- to 2600-slot parking garage, all part of

        19       this plan, and we expect that the entire

        20       Capital Region will benefit from the activity

        21       that will take place during construction and

        22       all of the employees that live in the Capital

        23       Region and travel in from other parts of the

        24       state, as well as visitors will have

        25       facilities that are commensurate with the







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         1       Empire State.

         2                      Mayor Jennings is here from

         3       Albany, who has been in the forefront of

         4       helping make things happen in partners with

         5       our great Governor, George Pataki.  So I am

         6       proud to speak on behalf of the implementation

         7       and passage of the Albany Plan.

         8                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 9.

        12       This act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator, I'm sorry.

        15                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I'll explain

        16       my vote.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       O.K. Call the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the

        20       roll. )

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Senator Farley, you want to explain your

        23       vote?

        24                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Just to

        25       explain my vote.







                                                          2978

         1                      I'm pleased to support this

         2       piece of legislation as being part of the

         3       Capital Region, as Senator Bruno is.  We are

         4        -- many of my constituents, and so forth,

         5       have to come to Albany to work, and so forth,

         6       but we are all one Capital Region, and I know

         7       how committed the Governor is to Schenectady

         8       and I know how committed this Legislature is

         9       to helping the Schenectady area and, with that

        10       in mind, I would like to support this

        11       legislation and vote aye.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Thank you, Senator.

        14                      Senator Breslin, to explain his

        15       vote.

        16                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                      I rise to commend Senator

        19       Bruno, my Senate colleagues, the Assembly and

        20       the Governor for coming together on such an

        21       important piece of legislation for the city

        22       and county of Albany, my district.

        23                      It will bring, as Senator Bruno

        24       said, $240 million worth of construction but

        25       much more important, better working conditions







                                                          2979

         1       and a more cohesive Capital District, and I

         2       commend you, Senator Bruno.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Thank you, Senator.

         5                      Announce the results, please.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 50.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       The bill is passed.

         9                      Senator Johnson, should we

        10       return to the Resolution Calendar.

        11                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Yes, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       The Secretary will read.

        15                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Please have

        16       Resolution Number 3327, by Senator Saland,

        17       read in its entirety and move its immediate

        18       adoption.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Thank you, Senator Johnson.  Secretary will

        21       read.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        23       Saland, Legislative Resolution congratulating

        24       Edmund Newhard upon the occasion of his

        25       selection as the New York State 1998







                                                          2980

         1       Outstanding Contribution by a Senior Citizen

         2       Award.

         3                      WHEREAS, in conjunction with

         4       the celebration of May 5th, 1998 as Senior

         5       Citizen Day in the state of New York, the

         6       Senate Committee on Aging and the Assembly

         7       Standing Committee for the Aging have

         8       solicited and received numerous nominations

         9       for the Outstanding Contribution by a Senior

        10       Citizen Award from various counties of the

        11       state;

        12                      This award honors a senior

        13       citizen who has made a positive and beneficial

        14       contribution to the senior citizens of his

        15       community.  After careful consideration the

        16       representatives of both committees have chosen

        17       a nominee they believe exemplifies the

        18       qualities that benefit the noble appellation

        19       and is, therefore, deserving of this honorable

        20       recognition;

        21                      Edmund Newhard, of Hopewell

        22       Junction, Dutchess County, New York, has over

        23       the course of many years contributed to the

        24       quality of life in his community for citizens

        25       of all ages and truly merits recognition as







                                                          2981

         1       the recipient of the New York State's 1998

         2       Outstanding Contribution by a Senior Citizen

         3       Award;

         4                      Edmund Newhard served the

         5       United States in World War II as a combat

         6       aerial photographer.  He was shot down in the

         7       Pacific, parachuted out and landed behind

         8       enemy lines.  Local residents guided him to

         9       safety and he promptly returned to active

        10       duty.  He has been on active duty for his

        11       community ever since;

        12                      For 30 years, Edmund Newhard

        13       has been a member of the East Fishkill town

        14       planning board.  He has spent countless

        15       volunteer hours helping to guide the growth of

        16       his community with his knowledge and

        17       expertise;

        18                      Edmund Newhard is a landscape

        19       architect who donated his services to

        20       landscape the new East Fishkill Community

        21       Center where community members congregate and

        22       socialize.  He has also arranged for East

        23       Fishkill Rotary, of which he is past

        24       president, to donate the beautiful trees that

        25       line the outside of the Center.  The Dutchess







                                                          2982

         1       County Office for the Aging Senior Nutrition

         2       Site and the Dutchess County Association for

         3       Senior Citizens Drop-in Center are located in

         4       this important community facility;

         5                      Edmund Newhard also helped

         6       organize the Rotary-sponsored Internet Club at

         7       John Jay High School.  He has been honored

         8       with the 1997 Rotarian of the Year Award and

         9       he was named Dutchess County Senior Citizen of

        10       the Year for 1997 by the Dutchess County

        11       Office for the Aging Advisory Council;

        12                      Edmund Newhard's widespread

        13       good works are emblematic of the millions of

        14       hours of volunteer work performed by many of

        15       New York's more than 3 million senior

        16       citizens, volunteer work that keeps the fabric

        17       of American communities strong;

        18                      With commitment to the

        19       treasured principles of social

        20       responsibilities, ideals so clearly evident in

        21       his daily efforts and actions, Edmund Newhard

        22       has labored to preserve, to enhance and to

        23       further the uniquely American tradition of

        24       joining together for the common good;

        25                      WHEREAS, throughout his







                                                          2983

         1       involvement as an active and contributing

         2       member of his community, Edmund Newhard has

         3       combined tireless commitment with intelligence

         4       and leadership to improve and beautify his

         5       community;

         6                      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED

         7       that this legislative body pause in its

         8       deliberations to most joyously congratulate

         9       Edmund Newhard upon the occasion of his

        10       selection as a recipient of the 1998 New York

        11       State Outstanding Contribution by a Senior

        12       Citizen Award; and

        13                      BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a

        14       copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed,

        15       be transmitted to Edmund Newhard.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Question is on the resolution.  All in favor

        18       signify by saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye.")

        20                      Opposed nay.

        21                      (There was no response. )

        22                      Senator Saland, you wish to

        23       explain your vote?

        24                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

        25       President.







                                                          2984

         1                      Mr. President, it is a distinct

         2       pleasure and privilege for me to arise on

         3       behalf of Mr. Newhard's award today, his

         4       recognition today.

         5                      Mr. Newhard, as you've heard at

         6       length during the course of the reading of the

         7       resolution, is a man who has served not merely

         8       his country with great honor but he has served

         9       his community time and again in many different

        10       capacities with equally great honor.

        11                      It's interesting that, oh, some

        12       of 150 years or so ago, Alexis deToqueville

        13       talked at great length and wrote at great

        14       length about the uniquely American

        15       characteristic of volunteerism, something

        16       which was not really present and probably to

        17       this day is not as present as anywhere else

        18       but in this nation, and Mr. -- and Mr.

        19       Newhard, by his efforts, has time and again

        20       shown his willingness, whether it's in

        21       services of some 30 years as a member of the

        22       East Fishkill planning board, of a service

        23       which as I'm sure many of us in government are

        24       aware, the service which is performed as a

        25       volunteer, is not a salaried position; whether







                                                          2985

         1       it's commitment to service for the social

         2       organizations, the service organizations, he

         3       has been truly an outstanding member of his

         4       community and I'm sure I speak for everybody

         5       in this chamber when today I, on behalf of

         6       this chamber and on behalf of all of those who

         7       participated in the process that selected Mr.

         8       Newhard, commend him for being chosen as New

         9       York State -- New York State's Outstanding

        10       Contribution by a Senior.

        11                      Congratulations.  I wish

        12       nothing but more good things for you, and East

        13       Fishkill and Dutchess County is very fortunate

        14       to have you within its midst.

        15                      Thank you very much.

        16                      I'd like to ask, with the

        17       President's permission, that Mr. Newhard be

        18       recognized.  He's seated in front of the

        19       chamber.  He's been joined by John Beal who is

        20       the director of the Office of the Aging in

        21       Dutchess County and, with your courtesy, Mr.

        22       President, I would welcome that you recognize

        23       him.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        25       Senator Saland, we'll do that, glad to do







                                                          2986

         1       that.

         2                      Mr. Newhard, we welcome you and

         3       salute you for your endeavors and your work

         4       and be well.  Godspeed!

         5                      (Applause).

         6                      Senator Maziarz, I have Senator

         7       Farley's permission to recognize you.

         8                      SENATOR MAZIARZ:  Thank you.

         9       Thank you very much, Mr. President.

        10                      I just, as chair of the Senate

        11       Aging Committee, I want to recognize my

        12       counterpart who assisted us greatly today in

        13       recognizing these two outstanding New York

        14       seniors, Assemblywoman Barbara Clark, chair of

        15       the Assembly Aging Committee.

        16                      Assemblywoman Clark and I were

        17       honored to have lunch this afternoon at the

        18       Governor's Mansion with both of our

        19       outstanding seniors and also several other

        20       seniors who have been doing some great work

        21       throughout the various counties in New York

        22       State, and I want to join my colleagues,

        23       Senator Holland, Senator Saland, in

        24       particularly congratulating Tim Finn and Ed

        25       Newhard for their contributions to the







                                                          2987

         1       Rockland County seniors and to the Dutchess

         2       County seniors, and this brings to a close

         3       their rather hectic day.

         4                      Mr. President, I said to both

         5       of them early this morning that this would be

         6       a day of picture taking, proclamations, pats

         7       on the back and a whole lot of eating, and we

         8       have done all three, Mr. President.

         9                      Thank you very much.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       And on behalf of Senator Saland, we would like

        12       to open the resolution.  Anyone -- we'll put

        13       the entire chamber on the resolution honoring

        14       the gentleman unless someone indicates

        15       otherwise.

        16                      Senator Johnson, that completes

        17       the Resolution Calendar.

        18                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                      At this time, may we please

        21       have the reading of the non-controversial

        22       calendar.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Secretary will read the non-controversial

        25       calendar.







                                                          2988

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         2       111, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5107, an

         3       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

         4       relation to increasing the monetary value.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         8       This act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Call the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the

        12       roll. )

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       The bill is passed.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       273, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2202, an

        18       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        19       relation to reporting.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it

        21       aside.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Lay the bill aside.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        25       319, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2210, an







                                                          2989

         1       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         2       cooperation between police agencies.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it

         4       aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Lay the bill aside.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       338, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

         9       4117, an act to amend the Navigation Law.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        13       This act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the

        17       roll. )

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       The bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       361, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 665, an

        23       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the

        24       Family Court Act and the Penal Law.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:







                                                          2990

         1       Read the last 

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.

         3       This act shall take effect immediately.

         4                      SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Lay the bill aside, please.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       448, by member of the Assembly Sanders,

         9       Assembly Print 925, an act to amend the Labor

        10       Law, in relation to restoring.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        14       This act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Call the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the

        18       roll.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 51.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       The bill is passed.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        23       459, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2011, an

        24       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        25       making citizenship document fraud.







                                                          2991

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         4       This act shall take effect on the first day of

         5       November.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Call the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the

         9       roll. )

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       The bill is passed.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        14       461, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2223, an

        15       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        16       making unlawful immigration a Class C felony.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Lay the bill aside.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        21       471, by member of the Assembly Hill, Assembly

        22       Print 21-A, an act authorizing the county of

        23       Nassau.

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Lay the

        25       bill aside.







                                                          2992

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Lay the bill aside, please.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       542, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1295, an

         5       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         6       relation to creating the town of Southampton.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       You have a home rule message at the desk.

         9       Read the last section.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        11       This act shall take effect immediately.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Call the roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the

        15       roll. )

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays

        17       one, Senator Leichter recorded in the

        18       negative.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       The bill is passed.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       553, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4408-A, an

        23       act to amend the General Municipal Law, the

        24       Public Housing Law and the State Finance Law.

        25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay aside.







                                                          2993

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Lay the bill aside, please.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         4       586, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5209-A,

         5       an act to amend the Tax Law and the

         6       Administrative Code of the city of New York.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Read the last section.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.

        10       This act shall take effect immediately.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Call the roll.

        13                      (The Secretary called the

        14       roll.)

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       The bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Johnson, that completes

        19       the reading of the non-controversial

        20       calendar.

        21                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                      At this time, I'd ask that we

        24       now return to the controversial calendar and

        25       read that controversial calendar.







                                                          2994

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Secretary will read the non-controversial

         3       calendar, beginning with Calendar Number 273.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       273, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2202, an

         6       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

         7       relation to reporting information.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         9       Read the last section.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:

        11       Explanation.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        13       Excuse me.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:

        15       Explanation.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Padavan, an explanation has been

        18       requested.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      This bill very simply prohibits

        22       the establishment of any local law, rule or

        23       regulation that would preclude the

        24       notification of INS when an individual has (a)

        25       broken a law and is to be in violation of







                                                          2995

         1       federal immigration laws.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Read the last section.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         5       This act shall take effect immediately.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Call the roll.

         8                      (The Secretary called the

         9       roll. )

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Announce the results, please.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        13       in the negative on Calendar Number 273 are

        14       Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gentile,

        15       Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery,

        16       Paterson, Rosado, Smith and Stavisky.  Ayes

        17       42, nays 12.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       The bill is passed.

        20                      Secretary will read.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       319, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2210, an

        23       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        24       cooperation between police agencies.

        25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.







                                                          2996

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Senator Padavan, an explanation has been

         3       requested.

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                      This bill requires that there

         7       be cooperation between police agencies and the

         8       United States Immigration and Naturalization

         9       Service for any person who is arrested under

        10       state law and who is reasonably suspected of

        11       being an illegal alien.

        12                      Yes?

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Padavan, you have a question?

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator

        16       Paterson has the question.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       I'm sorry.  Senator Paterson.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Hopefully

        20       I'll have the answer.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator

        22       Padavan, in the July 19th decision of a

        23       federal court in Manhattan, of 1997, last

        24       year, your first piece of legislation which is

        25       Calendar Number 273 would basically be







                                                          2997

         1       sustained by that decision.  Mayor Giuliani

         2       has appealed it, and I hope that his appeal is

         3       successful, but certainly your desire to make

         4       that state law is quite understandable.

         5                      However, in the same decision

         6       there is dicta in that case that says while

         7       the -- while the municipality cannot compel

         8       the agencies not to report illegal aliens, it

         9       also makes just as clear that we cannot compel

        10       the agencies to report this information; so

        11       while your first piece of legislation is quite

        12       on point and we're hoping that it's reversed

        13       on appeal, I'd like to ask you how you

        14       synthesize that with the bill that's before us

        15       right now.

        16                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  First, your

        17       statement is dicta and not the core of that

        18       decision.  I justify this bill on a very

        19       simple basis, and it need not relate to

        20       anybody's knowledge of the law.  It's just

        21       common sense.

        22                      If someone's arrested and you

        23       find in his possession forged documents, and

        24       we know this happens because we read about it,

        25       wholesale sale of forged drivers' licenses as







                                                          2998

         1       an example.  If someone is in possession of

         2       such forged documents and the local law

         3       enforcement agency reasonably presumes that

         4       that person is an illegal immigrant that they

         5       contact INS.

         6                      We cooperate with federal

         7       agencies all the time, the F.B.I., other

         8       federal agencies involved in one area of law

         9       enforcement or the other, the Treasury

        10       Department and so on. It is seemingly logical

        11       that in a situation where someone's been

        12       arrested, and I emphasize that point, the

        13       arrest is inexorably tied together with the

        14       contact of INS.

        15                      The decision you referred to

        16       dealt with Executive Order 124 and, as you

        17       properly pointed out, and we obviously have

        18       been dealing with this legislation over a

        19       number of years in an attempt to overrule

        20       124.  Now, presumably the federal courts will

        21       do it for us, but that case did not deal with

        22       this particular issue.

        23                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.

        25                      If Senator Padavan would







                                                          2999

         1       continue to yield.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator Padavan, do you continue to yield?

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       He yields, Senator.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well,

         9       Senator, they don't type in the court

        10       decisions with a different color for dicta as

        11       opposed to what's substantive, and I would

        12       suggest that that's really your assumption

        13       that that is dicta and not actually part of

        14       the mandate of the court decision, but my

        15       question to you is that, when looking at the

        16       scenario that you described where the police

        17       make an arrest and there are forged documents,

        18       what is the intervening cause that takes this

        19       from a situation where a person is concealing

        20       their identity or engaging in some kind of

        21       forgery or something even more unlawful, what

        22       makes the arresting entity know that this is

        23       related to immigration?

        24                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Well, if you

        25       have read the bill, there are some stipulated







                                                          3000

         1       conditions or attempts.  First you find out if

         2       he is a citizen, someone who is here as a

         3       permanent resident, an alien lawfully

         4       admitted, an alien lawfully admitted for a

         5       temporary period of time which may have been

         6       over-stayed, a person who is otherwise

         7       authorized under federal law to be present, an

         8       alien who is present in the United States in

         9       violation of federal immigration laws.

        10                      The verification process may

        11       include but shall not be limited to

        12       questioning the person regarding his place and

        13       date of birth and entry into the United States

        14       and requesting to see documentation indicating

        15       his legal status, and so on and so on.  It's

        16       all specified in the bill.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Padavan.

        19                      Mr. President, on the bill.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Senator Paterson, on the bill.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I still, in

        23       spite of the conditions that are laid out in

        24       Senator Padavan's bill, see a great leap of

        25       faith that becomes the catalyst for







                                                          3001

         1       determining whether or not an individual may

         2       be an illegal alien.  Unfortunately, there are

         3       many Americans, and it's unfortunate for this

         4       bill; it's rather fortunate for this country,

         5       who are of diverse backgrounds and would

         6       display different characteristics that, unfor

         7       tunately to some would still cause individuals

         8       to err in the direction of making the

         9       assumption that these individuals are not

        10       citizens, that they are not Americans, that

        11       they are not people who are in many cases born

        12       and bred right here in this country.

        13                      It's that leap of faith that we

        14       are concerned about as we vote against this

        15       piece of legislation.  Senator Padavan wants

        16       to compel agencies to go forward in these

        17       situations, which is really in contradiction

        18       to a court decision that actually affirms his

        19       point of view about municipalities issuing

        20       executive orders mandating that there not be

        21       this type of investigation, but the fact

        22       remains that this part of the court decision,

        23       in spite of the fact that Senator Padavan

        24       isn't in agreement with it and doesn't think

        25       it's relevant, still was written and it was







                                                          3002

         1       written for the purpose of trying to clear

         2       this area up, and what it really connotes is

         3       the fact that while we don't want to restrict

         4       any reporting of this type of situation, this

         5       scenario where we may be actually -- where we

         6       may actually have the responsibility, we don't

         7       want to compel the agency -- we don't want the

         8       agency to start engaging in such a speculative

         9       and subjective test for what constitutes

        10       citizenship that we are causing people, most

        11       of whom may be citizens, an unreasonable

        12       harassment by constantly causing them to

        13       reaffirm the citizenship to the country in

        14       which they were born and grew up.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr.

        16       President.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Senator Padavan.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  First, I

        20       would say to Senator Paterson that faith moves

        21       mountains.  In this case, it isn't moving you

        22       but we're going to try again.

        23                      What Senator Paterson fails to

        24       note in referring to that court decision, this

        25       bill deals with someone who is arrested,







                                                          3003

         1       Senator, someone who is arrested.  The court

         2       decision that you refer to in the federal

         3       court, by the way, does not relate to this

         4       situation directly.  There is conversation

         5       that may imply to some degree but it does not

         6       address the issue of someone who is arrested.

         7                      Now, we had a very terrible

         8       situation a couple years ago of a young man

         9       who was arrested for selling drugs.  The

        10       police department did not notify the court nor

        11       the district attorney that this person was

        12       presumed to be an illegal alien.  The court

        13       allowed that individual out on very low bail.

        14       Two weeks later he shot and killed a police

        15       officer.

        16                      Now, if this had been law at

        17       that time, INS would have been notified as

        18       would everyone else, that individual certainly

        19       would not have been out on bail and that

        20       police officer would be alive today.

        21                      Now, we are dealing with, I

        22       think, a very specific area here.  Senator

        23       Paterson broadens it.  We have over half a

        24       million illegal aliens in the metropolitan New

        25       York City area as reported by INS.  Therefore,







                                                          3004

         1       we're not dealing with an isolated very remote

         2       potential situation.  We're dealing with a

         3       very real one, of one of those illegal aliens

         4       being arrested for committing a crime, and if

         5       you look at the 8,000 immigrants we have in

         6       our state prisons, over half of them are

         7       illegal aliens and most of them are arrested

         8       for selling drugs; so again it is not a

         9       hypothetical or rather vague presumption that

        10       this situation exists, continues to exist, and

        11       we ought to have the benefit of the statute to

        12       enable us to deal with the problem.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

        15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        16       President, because I know Senator Padavan

        17       would want me to rise.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        19       Oh, I don't think so.  Can we take that to a

        20       vote?

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        22       President, the arrest of an individual in our

        23       society, in spite of a serious offense, still

        24       connotes a presumption of innocence until

        25       proven guilty.  At the point that an







                                                          3005

         1       individual is arrested, we as a society

         2       support that many rights and many privileges

         3       are taken away from this person because they

         4       are deemed to have an imminent or may be

         5       presenting an imminent danger to other members

         6       of society, but the fact that an individual is

         7       arrested, is not necessarily an invitation to

         8       now go into an examination of all of their

         9       documents to determine whether or not they

        10       have paid the Internal Revenue Service in the

        11       last year, whether or not they are up to date

        12       with all of their bills.

        13                      It really doesn't give us an

        14       opportunity to examine necessarily their

        15       citizenship rights just because the arresting

        16       officer may get an inkling of a feeling that

        17       this person is not a citizen, and so I think

        18       that the court decision does have merit here

        19       because the distinction that Senator Padavan

        20       is drawing on its face sounds very forceful

        21       because it -- it is responding to a situation

        22       where the individual's arrested, but we have

        23       people who are arrested for vehicular

        24       violations.  We have people now getting

        25       arrested for jaywalking.  We have people







                                                          3006

         1       getting arrested for a number of violations

         2       and misdemeanors that don't come close to the

         3       kinds of problems they would have or at least

         4       the threat to their faith in our society if we

         5       extend it to going through an entire perusal

         6       of their citizenship rights.

         7                      So I would just continue to

         8       maintain that this legislation be defeated on

         9       the grounds that it really causes too many

        10       Americans, people who Senator Padavan is not

        11       necessarily looking for, to be placed in the

        12       position where innuendo and suspicion and

        13       often bias and all kinds of situations that

        14       those individuals are all too familiar with

        15       are repeated in a -- in what is really a hunt

        16       for illegal aliens at the expense of too many

        17       citizens.

        18                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr.

        19       President.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Senator Waldon.

        22                      SENATOR WALDON:  Were you about

        23       to ask for a vote?

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        25       Yes, I was, Senator.







                                                          3007

         1                      SENATOR WALDON:  On the bill.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Was going to ask that the last section be

         4       read.

         5                      Senator Leichter, you rise

         6       also.  Senator Waldon was going to explain his

         7       vote.  Would you like to do that as well?

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I want to

         9       be heard on the bill.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Senator Leichter, if you didn't mind.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  If Senator

        13       Padavan would yield, please.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Senator Padavan, you yield to Senator

        16       Leichter.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He

        19       yields, Senator.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,

        21       there are certain provisions of the bill that

        22       give me some pause for thought.  One is where

        23       you authorize the police official to engage in

        24       what you call a verification process and to

        25       request to see certain documentation as well







                                                          3008

         1       as asking questions regarding place and date

         2       of birth and entry into the United States.

         3                      My question is, when those

         4       questions are totally unrelated to the reason

         5       for the arrest, have you looked into whether

         6       that's constitutional, both under the U.S.

         7       Constitution and the New York State

         8       Constitution?

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes, it is.

        10       Senator, I've never been arrested.  I presume

        11       you haven't either, but normally when someone

        12       is arrested, these are standard questions,

        13       name, birth, address.  I mean these are things

        14       that are normally asked aside from this

        15       legislation, place of birth, who are you, you

        16       know, that -- and frequently that information

        17       is put through a computerized system on a

        18       national basis if there's a federal warrant or

        19       something out on that individual.  This

        20       happens every day.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Through you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Senator, do you continue to yield?

        25                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, the







                                                          3009

         1       information 

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       He does.

         4                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  -- that you

         5       seek and authorize under this bill is not

         6       standard information.  You add entry into the

         7       United States.  That is not commonly asked or

         8       asked at all of people who have been

         9       arrested.  You can certainly ask, Who are you,

        10       where do you live? You may ask date of birth.

        11       You can ask questions that are related to the

        12       alleged crime, but you can't, at least as far

        13       as I know, at least you don't ask when were

        14       you admitted in the United States and I

        15       request to see documentation indicating legal

        16       status.  Those are really the two things that

        17       I'm referring to and that I question.

        18                      I'm not sure of the answer, but

        19       I have some doubts as to whether or not that's

        20       legal or within the province of a New York law

        21       enforcement official because, as you and I

        22       well know, the enforcement of the Immigration

        23       Law is reserved by the U. S. Constitution to

        24       the federal government.

        25                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  If someone,







                                                          3010

         1       when asked name, address, date of birth, place

         2       of birth says, I was born in Colombia, you

         3       say, Well, are you in this country legally?

         4       Tell us how.  That's not unconstitutional.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I -- I don't

         6       know, Senator.  I -- I don't know, Senator.  I

         7       wish I could just say, Well, Senator Padavan

         8       says it's constitutional, it must be

         9       constitutional.  I think it really raises a

        10       question, and I think it would be one thing if

        11       your bill provided that where there was

        12       information that the person was not legally in

        13       the United States that that information be

        14       transmitted to the Immigration Service, but

        15       that's not what you do.  You go beyond that

        16       and you empower New York State law enforcement

        17       officials to -- in effect, you deputize them

        18       as part of the Immigration Service to make

        19       inquiries and to ask questions which certainly

        20       are presently not being asked.  I -- I think

        21       that's a problem.

        22                      Let me ask you this other

        23       question if you would be good enough to

        24       yield.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:







                                                          3011

         1       Senator Padavan, you continue to yield?

         2       Senator continues to yield, Senator.

         3                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  As I

         4       understand it, the the law enforcement

         5       official is to notify the Attorney General and

         6       the U.S. Immigration Service, is that correct?

         7                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Then, in

         9       addition, the Attorney General is also

        10       supposed to notify the U.S. Immigration

        11       Service, is that correct?

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Why -- why,

        14       since the law enforcement official is advising

        15       the Immigration Service, do you also have the

        16       Attorney General pass on that information?

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I say,

        18       Senator, on the presumption that the Attorney

        19       General might have additional information that

        20       would be pertinent.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, again

        22       with all due respect, sir, and 

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Senator Padavan, do you continue to yield?

        25       The Senator continues to yields, Senator.







                                                          3012

         1                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The Attorney

         2       General is responsible for maintaining

         3       complete and accurate records of such reports

         4       and shall provide any additional information

         5       that may be requested.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But not line

         7       21, 22 says that the Attorney General shall 

         8       that report that was submitted by the law

         9       enforcement official to the Attorney General,

        10       that report shall be transmitted to the United

        11       States Immigration and Naturalization

        12       Service.

        13                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Correct, but

        14       it's their -- it's their prerogative.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Let me ask

        16       you 

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  It's all part

        18       of paragraph four, Senator.  You want to take

        19       one sentence away from the other, I think

        20       that's inappropriate.

        21                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well 

        22                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The entire

        23       paragraph should be read together.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator,

        25       that's what we always do.  I mean if you have







                                                          3013

         1       one sentence that says that the report shall

         2       be transmitted, you can't well qualify by

         3       another sentence.  I don't think it's of great

         4       moment, but I think it -- it does lead to a

         5       duplication.

         6                      What worries me most of all,

         7       Senator, is paragraph 3, lines -- I'm sorry,

         8       it's paragraph or subdivision (c).  It's lines

         9       13 and 14 which empowers the law enforcement

        10       official not only to notify the United States

        11       Immigration and Naturalization Service as well

        12       as the Attorney General, but then you add some

        13       language that I think could be very

        14       meritricious which says, "*** and provide any

        15       additional information that may be requested

        16       by any other public entity," without in any

        17       respect qualifying it to the matter of

        18       immigration status.  You seem to authorize any

        19       public agency to ask information of that law

        20       enforcement official or that law enforcement

        21       official be free to provide any information to

        22       any other public agency, totally unrelated to

        23       immigration.

        24                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Give me an

        25       example of a public agency that might seek







                                                          3014

         1       information that would be undesirable.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Well, I

         3       could -- yeah, I could see that 

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  How about

         5       Social Services, would that be undesirable?

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  It might

         7       well be, absolutely.

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'd say if

         9       that person is an illegal immigrant, it would

        10       be very desirable.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But,

        12       Senator, there hasn't been a determination

        13       made that that person is an illegal

        14       immigrant.  That can only be made by the

        15       Immigration Service.  Why would you

        16       authorize 

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, may

        18       I interrupt you?

        19                      SENATOR LEICHTER: Sure.

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  And I'd like

        21       to read something to you that's federal law

        22       which may answer some of your questions.

        23                      It's Section 132 involving

        24       interior enforcement relevant to immigration

        25       laws.  "The Attorney General may enter into a







                                                          3015

         1       written agreement with any state or any

         2       political subdivision of a state pursuant to

         3       which an officer or employee of the state or

         4       subdivision who is determined by the Attorney

         5       General to be qualified to perform a function

         6       of immigration officer in relation to the

         7       investigation, apprehension or detention of

         8       aliens in the United States, including the

         9       transportation of such aliens across state

        10       lines into detention centers, may carry out

        11       such function at the expense of the state or

        12       the political subdivision and to the extent

        13       consistent with state and local law."

        14                      What you have here is a very

        15       firm federal statute authorizing.  You said as

        16       agent, I think your phrase was we'd become an

        17       agent of the INS.  Well, if you want to use

        18       that term, you certainly have that

        19       prerogative, but this federal law provides for

        20       it, provides for direct cooperation between

        21       the federal authorities and the state and/or

        22       its local subdivisions in regard to illegal

        23       aliens.

        24                      Now, it says here, "Further an

        25       agreement under this subsection shall require







                                                          3016

         1       that an officer or employee of a state or

         2       political subdivision of a state performing a

         3       function shall have knowledge of and adhere to

         4       federal law." It goes on and on, pages here,

         5       but it's very, very clear that we are

         6       authorized by federal law to implement the

         7       legislation that you find troubling.

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, I

         9       can't believe, with all due respect, that you

        10       would read that because that is such a strong

        11       argument against this bill, and I would expect

        12       Senator Paterson to read that section.  That

        13       section provides that the federal authorities

        14       are authorized, subject to the procedures and

        15       the approval of the Attorney General, to enter

        16       into agreement with state officials.

        17                      No question that the federal

        18       government can go to the New York City Police

        19       Department and having assured itself that the

        20       New York City Police Department is familiar

        21       with federal rules, familiar with immigration

        22       to, in limited areas, enact a cooperation

        23       agreement, but that's not what your bill does

        24       at all.

        25                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  That's not







                                                          3017

         1       true, Senator.  You either didn't hear me or I

         2       didn't make myself clear.  The State Police

         3       Department, by the way, cooperates fully as do

         4       many other subdivisions of this state.  Where

         5       we have the problem primarily is within the

         6       city of New York.  This bill will, in effect,

         7       push us in the direction that the federal law

         8       provides for.

         9                      Your earlier question, Senator,

        10       was is this constitutional.  Well, my evidence

        11       is that we have federal law which has not been

        12       ruled unconstitutional.

        13                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No, no.

        14       Senator, my point was that the federal

        15       government, having preempted and through the

        16       Constitution being authorized to engage in and

        17       to enforce the immigration laws, that a state

        18       cannot say we're going to start enforcing the

        19       immigration laws absent the very thing that

        20       you mention, which is where the federal

        21       government enters into an agreement and

        22       authorizes the state to do this.

        23                      Let me ask you, has the federal

        24       government -- has the federal government

        25       authorized the state of New York and the law







                                                          3018

         1       enforcement agencies in the state of New York

         2       to do the acts that your bill authorizes them

         3       to do?

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         5                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  It has?

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Absolutely,

         7       and what we're saying here is 

         8                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Where is

         9       that agreement?

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       Excuse me, gentlemen.  The Chair has been

        13       willing to let the debate to go on to

        14       enhance 

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  My question

        16       is, where is that agreement?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        18       Senator, can the questions and answers come

        19       through the Chair, please, so we can keep this

        20       in order.

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.  In

        22       response to Senator Leichter's question 

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  You're

        24       right, Mr. President.

        25                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  In response







                                                          3019

         1       to Senator Leichter's question, the fact

         2       remains that our State Police and many other

         3       jurisdictions in this state do exactly that.

         4                      What we're trying to do, very

         5       simply, is to motivate by re-emphasizing what

         6       is already permitted, the cooperation that I

         7       think serves everyone's best interests in this

         8       state, and that's what this bill is all

         9       about.

        10                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Okay.

        11                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I merely

        12       quoted the state law -- the federal law so

        13       that I would put your mind at rest when you

        14       raised the question earlier, is it

        15       constitutional for a state or its subdivision

        16       to be in effect -- and I think this was your

        17       phrase -- an agent of INS, and I hope I've put

        18       that to rest.  Maybe I've not convinced you of

        19       the wisdom of this bill but that part of it to

        20       me is very important and your question was

        21       obviously asked sincerely and I'm giving you a

        22       proper response.

        23                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Good.  Mr.

        24       President, I want to thank Senator Padavan,

        25       but I must say that whenever we get into one







                                                          3020

         1       of these debates and I hear the sponsor say,

         2       Well, what we're trying to do -- you know, and

         3       that's not the issue.  The issue very often is

         4       what your language says.

         5                      Senator, there's no question

         6       that the federal government can under the law

         7       or the regulation you just read authorize

         8       agencies in New York State to help the

         9       Immigration Service, but when I asked you,

        10       where is the agreement they would authorize

        11       every law enforcement agency in New York State

        12       to do the acts that your bill does, you talk

        13       about, Well, we have an agreement with the

        14       State Police.  First of all, without having

        15       seen it but I would bet my last dollar, the

        16       agreement between the State Police, the

        17       Immigration Service, does not provide the

        18       powers and the authority, that broad sweep

        19       which your bill provides for.

        20                      Secondly, it certainly doesn't

        21       cover the Hempstead Police Department.  It

        22       doesn't cover the Watertown Police

        23       Department.  There's no agreement between

        24       them.  So the fact of the matter is that I

        25       think the question and the issue that I







                                                          3021

         1       raised, can the state of New York on its own

         2       decide that it's going to empower agencies

         3       that have not entered into an agreement with

         4       the Immigration Service to enforce the

         5       immigration laws, can we do that, is that 

         6       are we authorized to do that?  I have a

         7       serious question.

         8                      I think certainly where we know

         9       that a crime has been committed or we know

        10       that somebody is here illegally, I think that

        11       you're certainly authorized to pass that

        12       information on to the Immigration Service, but

        13       you don't do that.  You go much further.  You

        14       empower New York State law enforcement

        15       officials to pry into people's immigration

        16       status and that, to my mind -- and I'm not

        17       sure of the answer, I must tell you, but that

        18       raises a constitutional question.

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Mr.

        20       President.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       Senator Padavan.

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator

        24       Leichter asked the question, is there a

        25       written agreement.  What I said to him is, in







                                                          3022

         1       effect, whether it's written or not, the State

         2       Police and other law enforcement agencies in

         3       this state are cooperating on a regular basis

         4       with INS.

         5                      Now, beyond that point, I think

         6       it's important for him to understand -- and I

         7       will read the section of federal law that is

         8       pertinent, "Nothing in this subsection shall

         9       be construed to require an agreement under

        10       this subsection in order for any officer or

        11       employee of a state or political subdivision

        12       of a state (a), to communicate with the

        13       Attorney General regarding the immigration

        14       status of any individual, including reporting

        15       knowledge that a particular alien is not

        16       lawfully present in the United States (b),

        17       otherwise to cooperate with the Attorney

        18       General in the identification, apprehension,

        19       detention or removal of aliens not lawfully

        20       present in the United States."

        21                      Now, what that says, very

        22       directly -- it doesn't require any

        23       interpretation -- is absent a written

        24       agreement, the things that we are attempting

        25       to motivate in this bill are permitted and not







                                                          3023

         1       only permitted but encouraged by federal law.

         2                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

         3       President, continuing my comments on the bill.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Senator Leichter, on the bill.

         6                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah.

         7       Senator Paterson, those two sections you read

         8       -- I'm sorry.  Senator Padavan.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Seems to be a common error today.

        11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I always

        12       take my cue from you, Mr. President.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Thank you, Senator.

        15                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  But, Senator

        16       Padavan, what you just read is (a), the first

        17       provision was exactly what I said, that any

        18       law enforcement official, for that matter, any

        19       citizen knowing that somebody is here

        20       illegally is authorized to so inform the

        21       Immigration Service.  You and I have that

        22       authority.  We don't need any statute to give

        23       us that power and (b), it just says to

        24       cooperate with the Immigration Service.

        25       That's fine.  Everybody has that right and







                                                          3024

         1       that authority, but what I'm concerned about

         2       is your having officials of the state of New

         3       York ask questions that right now they cannot

         4       ask and maybe that even with this bill they

         5       can't ask or shouldn't ask.

         6                      I am also concerned, as I

         7       pointed out, Senator Paterson, a provision

         8       that I just don't think makes any sense where

         9       he says that law enforcement officials may

        10       provide any additional information that may be

        11       requested by any other public entity,

        12       information that's totally unrelated to

        13       immigration, information that maybe now police

        14       departments cannot or should not pass on,

        15       whether it's to a social service agency, the

        16       Health Department.  Why put that provision in

        17       there?  It's totally unnecessary or at the

        18       very least -- at the very least, you ought to

        19       say provide information relating to the

        20       immigration status of the individual to any

        21       agency that properly needs that information,

        22       but the way you have it now, it's an

        23       open-ended blank check to law enforcement

        24       officials to pass on all sorts of information

        25       to other agencies.







                                                          3025

         1                      Let me deal with the substance

         2       of the bill, and I think -- Senator Padavan, I

         3       think put it very well.  There's no question

         4       that we have a problem in this state and in

         5       this country of a large number of illegal

         6       immigrants.  That is a matter that really

         7       needs to be dealt with much more effectively

         8       by the federal government and we understand

         9       the problems considering the large boundary

        10       shorelines that this nation -- nation has,

        11       but there's certainly things that can be

        12       done.

        13                      I think it's a question that we

        14       have to ask ourselves, is -- should it be the

        15       policy of the state of New York to actively

        16       engage in the enforcement of the Immigration

        17       Law, forgetting for a moment whether we have

        18       the authority, assuming even that we have the

        19       authority, is that something that we want our

        20       law enforcement officials to do and one of the

        21       consequences of giving them that authority,

        22       that power considering not only all the other

        23       responsibilities that they have but the

        24       likelihood that this is going to intrude upon

        25       people's privacy in a manner that hasn't been







                                                          3026

         1       done to date, do you want to do that?  I don't

         2       think that you do.

         3                      I think that there are ways of

         4       dealing with illegal immigration through the

         5       federal government that we should support.

         6       Maybe we should ask the federal government to

         7       do more, but I don't think, one, the state of

         8       New York should take on the enforcement of the

         9       immigration laws, and secondly, I don't think

        10       that we ought to get police officials in this

        11       state to ask the sort of questions, to make

        12       the sort of inquiries, to pass on the sort of

        13       information that your bill provides.

        14                      I think that you're stepping

        15       into an area where we shouldn't be.  I think

        16       we will be infringing on people's privacy.  I

        17       think we will be opening up a lot of problems

        18       in relationships between police and people who

        19       may have come from other countries or their

        20       ance... or their ancestors have come from

        21       other countries.  I can see a great deal of

        22       problems.  As Senator Paterson said, biases

        23       and prejudices are going to be shown.  I just

        24       don't think that we want to put that burden

        25       and create that problem for our law







                                                          3027

         1       enforcement officials.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       Senator Waldon, please.

         4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would the

         5       gentleman yield to a question?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         7       Senator Padavan, do you yield?

         8                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       He yields, Senator.

        11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, do

        12       you recall when we discussed the Police and

        13       Public Protection Act here in this chamber,

        14       this session, the part of that act which

        15       allows police officers to stop people abroad

        16       for merely a whim, not necessarily any act of

        17       criminality which would provoke them to stop

        18       the person?

        19                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No, I don't

        20       recall it, Senator.

        21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Okay.  On the

        22       bill, Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        24       Senator Waldon, on the bill.

        25                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.







                                                          3028

         1       President.  Thank you, Senator Padavan.

         2                      I recall that, and when I place

         3       that in conjunction with what you've proposed

         4       here today, it is ominous the potential impact

         5       upon society but especially upon people of

         6       color and people who are recently from foreign

         7       lands; for example, the Caribbean, South

         8       America, Africa, Asia.  Those are the people

         9       who will be stopped indiscriminately by

        10       police, coupled with the rights and what

        11       you're proposing today and if that other

        12       proposal were law in the state, those in

        13       conjunction create a pincer move on the rights

        14       of people, a vice which would trap these

        15       people in terms of the impact of the law.

        16                      I think this is un-American.  I

        17       think this is not what our society is all

        18       about, nor should it be about, and so I

        19       caution my colleagues to recognize that this

        20       is very thin ice that we're skating upon, and

        21       that if we're really concerned about the

        22       rights of some of the people who happen to be

        23       from foreign lands recently or who do not look

        24       like most of us in this chamber, we cannot

        25       abide this proposal, and I would encourage you







                                                          3029

         1       to vote in the negative.

         2                      Thank you, Mr. President.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Senator Dollinger.

         5                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Will

         6       Senator Padavan yield for couple of questions?

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Senator, do you yield to a couple of

         9       questions?

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        12       He yields, Senator Dollinger.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  The

        14       Attorney General that's referenced in the

        15       bill, is that the Attorney General of the

        16       state of New York?

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  U.S. Attorney

        18       General.

        19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This

        20       amendment will go in the exec...

        21                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, I'm

        22       sorry.  Did you say -- what?  I may have said

        23       it wrong in not hearing your question right.

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  In

        25       the bill it says that this -- in addition







                                                          3030

         1       to the other obligations of the police

         2       agencies 

         3                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The bill

         4       refers to the New York State Attorney

         5       General.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  What

         7       jurisdiction to enforce the immigration laws

         8       does the Attorney General of the state of New

         9       York have?

        10                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  We've used

        11       this word "enforcement" here rather liberally

        12       but we're not reading the bill.  Enforcement

        13       of immigration laws rest with INS.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  We're talking

        16       about cooperation, providing information,

        17       referral.  That's what we're talking about.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  But

        19       my 

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The Attorney

        21       General might have in his possession

        22       information that may be useful.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  The

        24       information will go -- both go to the INS and

        25       to the New York State Attorney General so







                                                          3031

         1       they'll both have a list, is that correct?

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Local law

         3       enforcement would give that information, yes.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So we'll

         5       have one list for the 

         6                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  But the

         7       Attorney General may have additional

         8       information that came from another political

         9       subdivision.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  But there

        11       will be a list maintained by the Attorney

        12       General of the state of New York, again, Mr.

        13       President, if Senator Padavan 

        14                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  I'm not sure

        15       what you mean by "list" but information that

        16       would be appropriate would be in his

        17       possession.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well -- but

        19       you will require him to maintain this

        20       information.  It says here that he shall

        21       maintain accurate and complete records

        22       regarding who's on the list, correct?

        23                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Records of

        24       any referrals made by local jurisdictions.

        25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  And the INS







                                                          3032

         1       will maintain the same list.

         2                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Pardon me?

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  The INS

         4       will maintain the same list.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Maintain the

         6       same list?

         7                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Well, again

         8       through you, Mr. President.  The bill requires

         9       that the local authorities tell both the

        10       Attorney General of the state of New York and

        11       the INS.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  That's

        13       correct.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So

        15       presumably there will be a list with the New

        16       York State Attorney General.

        17                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The

        18       information will be in both places, if that's

        19       what you're asking.

        20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.  So

        21       we're going to duplicate the efforts of both

        22       agencies.  We're doing exactly the same

        23       thing.

        24                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  You realize

        25       there are different INS districts throughout







                                                          3033

         1       the state.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I

         3       understand, but I 

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  So the

         5       information that would be in the possession of

         6       our state Attorney General would be made

         7       available to any one of them.  An illegal

         8       immigrant might be in New York City one day,

         9       might be in Oswego a week later.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right, but

        11       there will be two lists.

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  The

        13       information would presumably be available in

        14       both places if it was forwarded -- if it was

        15       forwarded.

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        17       Again through you, Mr. President, if Senator

        18       Padavan will continue to yield.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  I

        20       believe the Senator continues to yield.

        21                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you.

        22                      This requires that suspected

        23       aliens be put on the list, is that correct?

        24                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  You know,

        25       Senator, I'm troubled somewhat by your







                                                          3034

         1       reference to being put on a list.  Keep in

         2       mind this is someone who was arrested, not

         3       just a suspected alien, illegal alien, someone

         4       who was arrested, and as an indication by

         5       virtue of that process of arrest that the

         6       person is an illegal alien, and what we are

         7       calling for is cooperation between the local

         8       jurisdiction, whether it be the State Police,

         9       the police in the city of New York, or the

        10       police in Oswego, New York, to provide that

        11       information to the Attorney General and to

        12       INS.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay, but

        14       again through you, Mr. President, if Senator

        15       Padavan will yield.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Padavan -- excuse me, Senator.

        18                      Senator Padavan, do you

        19       continue to yield?

        20                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Yes.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        22       He yields.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This bill

        24       says that they shall notify the Attorney

        25       General and the United States Immigration







                                                          3035

         1       Service of such persons suspected of illegal

         2       immigration status.  That's what you would do,

         3       is have the police agency 

         4                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Someone's

         5       been arrested.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right, but

         7       the suspected status is turned over to the

         8       INS.

         9                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Correct.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  My question

        11       to you is what happens if it turns out that

        12       suspected alien is actually a legal resident

        13       but his name has already been transmitted to

        14       the Attorney General as -- and to INS as a

        15       suspected alien?  There's nothing in this bill

        16       that would allow, for example, if this person

        17       is determined not to be an illegal alien, then

        18       the police entity shall transmit information

        19       to the Attorney General and to the INS, that

        20       his name shall be struck from the list of

        21       those who are suspected aliens and his records

        22       expunged completely.  There's nothing in this

        23       bill that says that, is there?

        24                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Senator, if

        25       the person turns out to be a legal immigrant,







                                                          3036

         1       then nothing happens.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Except his

         3       name is on the list maintained by the Attorney

         4       General and the INS.

         5                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  You keep

         6       using the word "list".  The information that's

         7       kept by the Attorney General which is used in

         8       a circumstance like that would obviously be

         9       corrected.

        10                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is there a

        11       provision in this bill 

        12                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  Oh, Senator.

        13                      SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- that

        14       provides for the correction?

        15                      SENATOR PADAVAN:  No, but I

        16       think it's clear if that information is

        17       erroneous, it would be corrected.

        18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        19       Thank you, Mr. President.  On the bill.

        20                      Senator Padavan, I agree with

        21       Senator Leichter 

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Senator Dollinger on the bill.

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  -- that the

        25       problem of illegal immigration is one that we







                                                          3037

         1       face in this country and that we have to deal

         2       with.  The question is whether this bill deals

         3       with it and, quite frankly, with all due

         4       respect to Senator Padavan, I have to look at

         5       this bill and question why we're doing it,

         6       because we're transmitting information to the

         7       Attorney General of the state of New York who

         8       has no enforcement power over illegal

         9       immigration.  We're asking him to produce a

        10       duplicative list of suspected aliens that the

        11       Immigration and Naturalization Service, which

        12       has nationwide -- frankly, Senator Padavan,

        13       they could be in New York City in one day and

        14       Oswego the next and in Santa Jolla, California

        15       the following day.  INS which has nationwide

        16       authority would be much better off tracking

        17       that suspected illegal alien than would the

        18       Attorney General of the state of New York or

        19       the regional office of the INS and then it

        20       says that it's only their suspected alien

        21       status.  What happens when the suspected

        22       alien's name is transmitted to the Attorney

        23       General or the INS and it's later determined

        24       in a proceeding that he or she is a legal

        25       immigrant, in fact a citizen, entitled to be







                                                          3038

         1       here?  They're already on the suspected alien

         2       list.  They're already on the suspected list.

         3       The information has already been passed as a

         4       suspect.  They don't get a chance to go back.

         5       This bill doesn't provide for the suspected

         6       alien who's found to be a citizen to go back

         7       and erase his name from the suspicion list.

         8                      With all due respect, Senator

         9       Padavan, the fact that we're duplicating

        10       efforts, we don't have a provision for

        11       expunging the wrongful determination by the

        12       police, and yet we create a duplication

        13       process in the efforts, raises to me a

        14       question as to why we're doing this bill.  Why

        15       would we do it if all we're trying to do is

        16       duplicate the efforts of INS for suspected

        17       aliens and there's no expungement provision.

        18                      What this bill does, and I

        19       agree with Senator Waldon.  This is an "us"

        20       and "them" bill.  This is all about us and

        21       them.  It's all about a group of people.  Look

        22       around this room and figure out who "us" is.

        23       This is a bill that will never be used against

        24       Canadian illegal immigrants.  It will probably

        25       never be used against Australian immigrants.







                                                          3039

         1       It will probably never be used against New

         2       Zealand immigrants.  You know what it's going

         3       to be used again?  It's going to be used

         4       against Puerto Ricans.  It's going to be used

         5       against African-Americans.  It's going to be

         6       used against Japanese-Americans.  It's going

         7       to be used against Chinese-Americans.  It's

         8       going to be used against people who don't talk

         9       like us, don't look like us and don't act like

        10       us, and the problem is there was a time, not

        11       long ago, go back 50 years and you know what

        12       we would have done?  We would have used this

        13       very same bill and said, My gosh.  You wear

        14       one of those pins in your lapel that has

        15       orange, green and white, you must not be an

        16       American.  You walk around with a yarmulka on,

        17       you must not be an American.  You walk around

        18       speaking Italian, you must not be an

        19       American.  You have a heavy Slavic accident 

        20       accent, we better put you on the suspected

        21       alien list.

        22                      The problem is this bill preys

        23       on our worst fears of who the thems are, and

        24       the problem is it seems to me that if anything

        25       has been proven in American history it's that







                                                          3040

         1       sooner or later, the thems become us.  That's

         2       what we're all about.  We were all once the

         3       thems that someone else was trying to keep

         4       out.

         5                      Senator Padavan, the problem of

         6       illegal immigration -- I voted for bills that

         7       you've brought up about illegal immigrants.  I

         8       don't think we have to shelter illegal

         9       immigrants.  I don't think we have to provide

        10       them with certain cases with special

        11       protections, but one thing we have to do is we

        12       can't allow the authorities to use the

        13       prejudices and the stereotypes against people

        14       who are here in this country.

        15                      There's a way to do it.  The

        16       INS is trying to do it.  Lord knows they need

        17       more resources.  This bill, unfortunately, in

        18       my judgment, preys on stereotypes and won't

        19       accomplish the goal that you seek to achieve.

        20                      Unfortunately, it only does

        21       something to accentuate them against us and to

        22       quote Senator Waldon, I guess all of us are

        23       Americans and we were all once immigrants and

        24       this is not consistent with our immigrant

        25       past.







                                                          3041

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Senator Lachman.

         3                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  On the bill.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Senator Lachman on the bill.

         6                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  And I'll try

         7       to be brief.  When Ted Sorensen and John F.

         8       Kennedy co-wrote the book, A Nation of

         9       Immigrants, they spoke about a unique nation

        10       which is the United States whose people have

        11       come from all over the world, who speak

        12       different languages and are of different races

        13       and nationalities.

        14                      Now, I understand, Senator

        15       Padavan, what your objective and what your

        16       goal is, and I do not believe that this

        17       necessarily will reach that goal and

        18       objective.  I for one believe that we should

        19       not countenance anything from those who are

        20       illegal immigrants but at the same time I am

        21       fearful that this bill blurs the line between

        22       legal immigrants and illegal immigrants.

        23                      Now, I happen to be the son of

        24       one legal immigrant and one American citizen,

        25       and I know the fears that legal immigrants







                                                          3042

         1       have, not necessarily or only because they are

         2       a different race but because they cannot speak

         3       the language of the land.  Their mother tongue

         4       is Greek.  Their mother tongue is Italian.

         5       Their mother tongue is Russian.  Their mother

         6       tongue is Polish.  Their mother tongue is

         7       Arabic.  Their mother tongue is Hebrew.  Their

         8       mother tongue is Japanese.

         9                      Now, the differentiation might

        10       be that an illegal immigrant is able to speak

        11       English better than a legal immigrant and this

        12       bill could lead to a situation where the

        13       rights of legal immigrants are diminished

        14       without in any way hurting or diminishing the

        15       rights of illegal immigrants.

        16                      Now, I am not going to say that

        17       this bill opens up a flood for witch hunts,

        18       but I am going to say it does not achieve its

        19       objectives.  It has states meddling in federal

        20       affairs and it can lead to dangerous

        21       consequences for legal aliens who live in

        22       America and have the rights of Americans.

        23                      Thank you.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        25       Read the last section, please.







                                                          3043

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         2       This act shall take effect on the 30th day.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       Call the roll.

         5                      (The Secretary called the

         6       roll.)

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Please record the negatives.  Announce the

         9       results.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        11       in the negative on Calendar Number 319 are

        12       Senators Connor, Dollinger, Gonzalez, Kruger,

        13       Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez,

        14       Montgomery, Paterson, Rosado, Santiago, Smith,

        15       Stavisky and Waldon.  Ayes 43, nays 15.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       The bill is passed.

        18                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        19       rise?

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        21       President, I would just like us to pause in

        22       our deliberations for a moment to recognize

        23       the newly elected Borough President of the

        24       borough of Manhattan in the city of New York,

        25       former City Council member from my district on







                                                          3044

         1       the upper west side of Manhattan and a long

         2       fighter for social justice in our state, the

         3       Honorable C. Virginia Fields has joined us

         4       today.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Ms. Fields, welcome.

         7                      (Applause)

         8                      Senator Kruger, why do you

         9       rise?

        10                      SENATOR KRUGER:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.  I would ask for unanimous consent

        12       to be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        13       Number 273.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Without objection, so ordered.

        16                      Senator Nanula.

        17                      SENATOR NANULA:  Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                      On Calendar Number 273, I'm

        20       also requesting unanimous consent to be

        21       recorded in the negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Without objection, so ordered.

        24                      SENATOR NANULA:  Thank you.

        25                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.







                                                          3045

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Senator Waldon.

         3                      SENATOR WALDON:  I happened to

         4       be out of the room when we dealt with Calendar

         5       273 and request unanimous consent to be

         6       recorded in the negative.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         8       Without objection, so ordered.

         9                      Senator Lachman.

        10                      SENATOR LACHMAN:  I was out of

        11       the chamber at that time, 273, consent to be

        12       recorded in the negative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       So ordered, without objection.

        15                      Senator Stavisky.

        16                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Mr.

        17       President, yesterday there were votes on

        18       Senate 2351, Calendar 241.  I would have been

        19       recorded in the negative on that vote.

        20                      There was also a vote on

        21       Calendar 465, Senate 4595.  I wish the record

        22       to reflect that I would have voted in the

        23       negative on that and finally yesterday, Senate

        24       Calendar 545, Senate 1955, I wish the record

        25       to reflect that I would have voted in the







                                                          3046

         1       negative on that.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         3       The record will so show, Senator.

         4                      SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Senator Gonzalez.

         7                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Excuse me, Senator Gonzalez.

        11                      Ladies and gentlemen, please.

        12                      Senator.

        13                      SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Yes.  I

        14       would like to be recorded in the negative on

        15       Calendar 273.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Without objection, so ordered.

        18                      Senator Santiago.

        19                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  Mr.

        20       President, unanimous consent to be recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar 273.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       Without objection, so ordered.

        24                      Senator Gold.

        25                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you, Mr.







                                                          3047

         1       President.

         2                      I would ask unanimous consent

         3       to be voted in the negative on Calendar Number

         4       273 and also Calendar 319.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Without objection, so ordered.

         7                      SENATOR GOLD:  Thank you so

         8       much.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       The Secretary will read.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       361, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 665, an

        13       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the

        14       Family Court Act, the Penal Law and the Public

        15       Health Law.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        19       President, this is a bill that has very good

        20       merit.  It would test the perpetrators of

        21       certain crimes after arrest if the victim of

        22       the crime feels that he or she has been

        23       exposed to transmittable diseases of a

        24       life-threatening proportion.  However -- and

        25       we certainly understand the sponsor's desire







                                                          3048

         1       to protect the victims.

         2                      What this bill does is really

         3       to ignore most of the prescriptions that have

         4       been lended to us by the AIDS Advisory

         5       Committee and also the Center for Disease

         6       Control, which really compel us to understand

         7       that testing the alleged perpetrator of a

         8       crime, or at least testing the person that may

         9       have transmitted the disease, does not ensure

        10       anything to the victim.  There are certain

        11       protocols that are described for the victim by

        12       the Center for Disease Control, a four-week

        13       program of medical intervention hopefully

        14       starting two to four hours after the alleged

        15       transmission and yet if a 24- to 36-hour

        16       period elapses, it may be impossible for the

        17       actual protocol or the prescribed medical

        18       procedure to be effective.

        19                      It seems unlikely that we would

        20       be able to make application and have the test

        21       of the perpetrator at that particular time.

        22       So the safest medical procedure is to test the

        23       victim and if necessary as a precaution to

        24       treat the victim.  We would not want to be

        25       unnecessarily punishing the accused out of a







                                                          3049

         1       feeling that the crime was actually committed

         2       and at the same time if our real interests is

         3       that of the victim and protecting the health

         4       and welfare of the victim, what I would

         5       certainly suggest to the sponsor what we might

         6       consider is a prophylaxis or perhaps

         7       state-sponsored testing of victims for these

         8       types of crimes and -- I mean, state-sponsored

         9       testing the victim when exposed to these types

        10       of diseases and also and very importantly the

        11       counseling and the education that would be

        12       necessary so that the victim would know what

        13       his or her options would be.

        14                      In this period of new diseases

        15       and the inability at times of our treatments

        16       to cure an individual who may be exposed,

        17       certainly that rise -- that rise in climate of

        18       public anxiety over the subject makes us very

        19       sensitive to the desire to protect victims of

        20       crimes and to protect people from being

        21       exposed to life- threatening diseases.

        22                      However, it's our position that

        23       this legislation would not bring us any closer

        24       to that ideal and that if anything it might

        25       confuse the issue by focusing too much







                                                          3050

         1       attention on the accused.  If they committed

         2       the crime, hopefully they will be punished to

         3       the full extent of the law but their

         4       culpability for exposing the victim to the

         5       disease is another issue related more to the

         6       crime and that the safest way to protect the

         7       victim is to test the victim or begin

         8       immediate intervention of a medical nature as

         9       a precautionary procedure immediately.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       Read the last section.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.

        13       This act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Call the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the

        17       roll.)

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        19       President, to explain my vote.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Senator Leichter to explain his vote.

        22                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yeah.  We've

        23       had this bill before, as I guess we have had

        24       just about every other bill that seems to be

        25       debated on this floor.  The real objection of







                                                          3051

         1       this bill is that it does absolutely nothing

         2       for the victim.  I mean, it's a hoax to say

         3       that any assistance is being given to the

         4       victim because it doesn't do it.

         5                      All of the knowledgeable people

         6       who deal in the area of AIDS will tell you

         7       that this bill does nothing, that you've got

         8       to test the victim, and this really does harm

         9       because it may lead victims not to be tested

        10       because the alleged perpetrator isn't, and

        11       it's for that reason it's opposed by the

        12       NYCLU, the New York State Bar Association, the

        13       New York State AIDS Coalition, GMHC, Empire

        14       State Pride in Gender, and it's opposed by me.

        15                      I vote in the negative.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Please announce the results.

        18                      Senator Saland, do you wish to

        19       explain your vote?

        20                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes.  Thank

        21       you, Mr. President.

        22                      I don't wish to engage in a

        23       debate that will exacerbate anything here, but

        24       I did take particularly unkindly to the -- to

        25       the statement that this, in fact, represented







                                                          3052

         1       a hoax.  I know we have differences of opinion

         2       on this.  Certainly Senator Leichter has been

         3       clear and outspoken in his opposition.

         4                      I would just request that

         5       before he so blithely puts out comments such

         6       as condemning a bill as being a hoax, that he

         7       might like to look at those parts of the bill,

         8       in case he hasn't read it in its entirety,

         9       that basically requires the very

        10       acknowledgment of counseling in the victim's

        11       testing, but also particularly if you would

        12       indulge me just very briefly, I would like to

        13       read from -- without bothering to identify all

        14       the groups that support this -- Governor

        15       Cuomo's Task Force on Rape and Sexual Assault

        16       report of April of 1990 as contained in

        17       Recommendation 16.

        18                      "An efficient process should

        19       be developed by which a victim of rape and

        20       sexual assault can easily access the civil

        21       court system to seek a court order to require

        22       HIV testing of an alleged sex offender to

        23       obtain the defendant's HIV antibody status.

        24                      "While this information will

        25       not necessarily answer the question of whether







                                                          3053

         1       the victim has been infected, it might assist

         2       the victim in making difficult health care

         3       decisions" -- and I am skipping sections

         4       here.

         5                      "While the result alone may

         6       not be determined if some victims after

         7       consultation with their physician or an HIV

         8       counselor may want to begin immediate

         9       treatment with prophylactic drugs.  Where the

        10       assailant's first test is positive, the victim

        11       may want to make immediate -- want to begin

        12       immediate drug therapy even though she or he

        13       might not have actually been infected.

        14                      "Even if the offender's first

        15       test turns out to be negative, the victim may

        16       nevertheless want to proceed with drug therapy

        17       since she or he may have been exposed.

        18                      "The question of how and when

        19       to test the alleged sex offender remains.  The

        20       Task Force considered and rejected waiting

        21       until an accused is convicted.

        22                      "While a convicted defendant

        23       is no longer presumed innocent and has fewer

        24       procedural rights, there are two problems with

        25       waiting for conviction.  One, extensive delay







                                                          3054

         1       is inevitable because it can takes weeks for

         2       conviction by plea and months for conviction

         3       by verdict and two, there are a number of

         4       acquittals and dismissals where the defendant

         5       may have nevertheless infected the victim.  In

         6       either case, conviction is not an adequate

         7       triggering event."

         8                      It goes on to say, "For similar

         9       reasons, indictment is not a good marker.

        10       Indictments can be delayed, particularly where

        11       a defendant is at liberty.  Furthermore, a

        12       prosecutor may be unable to obtain an

        13       indictment for reasons unrelated to the

        14       accused as the true perpetrator."

        15                      This bill uses the filing of an

        16       information or the laying of an indictment and

        17       certainly is perhaps less -- more generous

        18       than was proposed by Governor Cuomo's task

        19       force.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Thank you, Senator.

        22                      Announce the results, please.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        24       in the negative on Calendar Number 361 are

        25       Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,







                                                          3055

         1       Gonzalez, Goodman, Leichter, Markowitz,

         2       Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson, Rosado,

         3       Santiago, Smith, Waldon.  Also, Senator

         4       Mendez.  Ayes 42, nays 16.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       The bill is passed.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Also, Senator

         8       Stavisky.  Ayes 41, nays 17.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       The bill is still passed.

        11                      The Secretary will read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       461, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2223, an

        14       act to amend the Penal Law.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        16       Read the last section, please.

        17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

        18       This act shall take effect on the first day of

        19       November.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the

        23       roll.)

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        25       in the negative on Calendar Number 461 are







                                                          3056

         1       Senators Abate, Gonzalez, Leichter, Markowitz,

         2       Mendez, Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago, Smith,

         3       Stavisky and Waldon.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       Senator Santiago, do you wish to be recorded?

         6                      She wishes to be recorded in

         7       the negative.

         8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 47, nays

         9       11.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        11       The bill is passed.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       471, by member of the Assembly Hill, Assembly

        14       Print 21-A, an act authorizing the county of

        15       Nassau.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        17       Read the last section, please.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        19       This act shall take effect immediately.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       Call the roll.

        22                      (The Secretary called the

        23       roll.)

        24                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is this the

        25       Hannon bill?







                                                          3057

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         2       Yes, it is, Senator Dollinger.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Record me

         4       in the negative, Mr. President.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Thank you.  Senator Dollinger in the

         7       negative.

         8                      Announce the results.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        10       in the negative on Calendar Number 471 are

        11       Senators Cook, Dollinger and Paterson.  Ayes

        12       55, nays 3.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       The bill is passed.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       553, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4408-A, an

        17       act to amend the General Municipal Law, the

        18       Public Housing Law and the State Finance Law.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        20       Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        22       President, as much as I researched this bill,

        23       I fail to see the distinction between this

        24       piece of legislation and the one we passed in

        25       this chamber by Senator Holland just last







                                                          3058

         1       week.  So I'm going to stand on my argument

         2       for last week and anyone that would like to

         3       hear it can look it up, or I have it available

         4       on CDs for 19.95.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         6       Read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.

         8       This act shall take effect immediately.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        10       Call the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the

        12       roll.)

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        14       Record the negatives and announce the results,

        15       please.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        17       in the negative on Calendar Number 553 are

        18       Senators Connor, DeFrancisco, Dollinger,

        19       Leichter and Paterson.  Ayes 53, nays 5.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        21       The bill is passed.

        22                      Senator Larkin, why do you

        23       rise?

        24                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        25       may we return to reports of standing







                                                          3059

         1       committees?  I believe there's a report of the

         2       Cities Committee at the desk.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         4       We will report -- return to the report of

         5       standing committees.

         6                      The Secretary will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

         8       Padavan, from the Committee on Cities,

         9       reports:

        10                      Senate Print 6059-C, by Senator

        11       Breslin, an act authorizing the city of Albany

        12       to appoint additional members to its board of

        13       assessment review.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        15       Without objection, the bill is reported to

        16       third reading.

        17                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

        18       let's return to motions and resolutions.  I

        19       believe there's a privileged resolution there

        20       for Senator Leibell, and I ask that it be read

        21       and moved for its immediate adoption.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        23       The Secretary will read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        25       Leibell, Legislative Resolution, honoring







                                                          3060

         1       Chief Gregory J. Amato, upon the occasion of

         2       his retirement from the town of Carmel Police

         3       Department, to be celebrated May 9th, 1998.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

         5       The motion is on the resolution.  All in favor

         6       signify by saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye".)

         8                      Opposed, nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      The resolution is adopted.

        11                      Senator Larkin.

        12                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Is there any

        13       housekeeping at the desk?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:  I

        15       believe the house is clean, sir.

        16                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Then, there

        17       being no further business, I move we adjourn

        18       until Wednesday, May the 6th, at 11:00 a.m.,

        19       and I would like to remind everybody that

        20       tomorrow is West Point Day, and those of you

        21       who have cadets who will be here, you have

        22       received a notice and you're invited to have

        23       coffee with them before session.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

        25       The Senate will stand adjourned until







                                                          3061

         1       Wednesday, May 6th, at 11:00 a.m. sharp.

         2                      (Whereupon, at 4:51 p.m., the

         3       Senate adjourned.)

         4

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9