Regular Session - May 12, 1998

                                                                3148

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        8                      ALBANY, NEW YORK

        9                        May 12, 1998

       10                          3:04 p.m.

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       13                      REGULAR SESSION

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       17        LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President

       18        STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

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        1                       P R O C E E D I N G S

        2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

        3        come to order.  Would everyone please rise and

        4        join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

        5                      (The assemblage repeated the

        6        Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

        7                      The invocation today will be given

        8        by Reverend Harold L. Rutherford from the Israel

        9        African Methodist Episcopal Church in Albany.

       10                      Reverend.

       11                      REVEREND HAROLD L. RUTHERFORD:

       12                      Let us pray.  Almighty God, You

       13        have plans for us and the power to make them

       14        happen.  We thank You for the leadership of the

       15        Senate whom You have raised up to God the great

       16        Empire State of New York.  Give them the

       17        knowledge of Your will for us.  We pray that
they

       18        will remember they serve a public trust beyond

       19        personal gain or glory.

       20                      May they see that no state live

       21        for itself alone, but is responsible to You for

       22        peace, for the well-being of all Your children.

       23                      May they seek the welfare of our

       24        great state and may they never engage in
anything

       25        that erodes our right for freedoms of life,







                                                            3150

        1        liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

        2                      Give them a sense of deep

        3        dedication and clear direction in all of their

        4        weighted responsibility.  We pray that they seek

        5        Your guidance to be responsible and wise,

        6        courageous and strong in making important

        7        decisions and never place power in positions

        8        before the needs of New York State.

        9                      Guide us the people to expect of

       10        them, and to support them in all legislation and

       11        faithful administration, that we may all prosper

       12        under an equal law.  Defend our liberties and

       13        grant us the sense of our responsibility.

       14                      God of our weary years, God of our

       15        silent tears, God who has led us on the way, who

       16        is by Thy might, listen to the light.

       17                      We pray that You will guide and

       18        direct these elected men and women.  May they

       19        always depend on your power to assist them in

       20        their responsible positions.  In Christ may we

       21        pray.

       22                      May the grace of Christ give us

       23        freedom.  May the love of God teach us to use it

       24        responsibly and wisely.  May the fellowship of

       25        the Holy Spirit uphold us in this task.  Amen.







                                                            3151

        1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Amen.  The reading

        2        of the Journal, please.

        3                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate, Monday,

        4        May 11th.  The Senate met pursuant to

        5        adjournment, Senator Fuschillo in the Chair upon

        6        designation of the Temporary President.  The

        7        Journal of Sunday, May 10th, was read and

        8        approved.  On motion, the Senate adjourned.

        9                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without objection,

       10        the Journal stands approved as read.

       11                      Presentation of petitions.

       12                      Messages from the Assembly.

       13                      Messages from the Governor.

       14                      Reports of standing committees.

       15                      The Secretary will read.

       16                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

       17        from the Committee on Finance, reports the

       18        following nomination:  New York Convention
Center

       19        Operating Corporation Board of Directors: 
Walter

       20        N. Rothschild, of Syosset.

       21                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Move the

       22        nomination, please.

       23                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Stafford.

       24                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Move the

       25        nomination, please.







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        1                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question is on

        2        the confirmation of Walter N. Rothschild, Jr.,
as

        3        member of the Board of Directors of the New York

        4        Convention Center Operating Corporation.  All in

        5        favor signify by saying aye.

        6                      (Response of "Aye".)

        7                      Opposed, nay.

        8                      (There was no response.)

        9                      Walter N. Rothschild, Jr., is

       10        hereby confirmed as a member of the Board of

       11        Directors of New York Convention Center
Operating

       12        Corporation.

       13                      The Secretary will read.

       14                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Stafford,

       15        from the Committee on Finance, reports the

       16        following bills direct to third reading:

       17                      Senate Print 7466, by the Senate

       18        Committee on Rules, an act making an

       19        appropriation; and

       20                      Senate Print 7467, by the Senate

       21        Committee on Rules, an act making an

       22        appropriation.

       23                      Senator Farley, from the Committee

       24        on Banks, reports the following bill direct to

       25        third reading:







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        1                      Senate Print 7442, by Senator

        2        Farley, an act to amend Chapter 3 of the Laws of

        3        1997.

        4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bills

        5        are ordered directly to third reading.

        6                      Reports of select committees.

        7                      Communications and reports from

        8        state officers.

        9                      Motions and resolutions.

       10                      The Chair recognizes Senator

       11        Holland.

       12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President,

       13        amendments are offered to the following Third

       14        Reading Calendar bills:

       15                      Page 15, Calendar 320, Senate

       16        Print Number 3029, by myself; page 25, Calendar

       17        591, Senate Print 6581, by Senator Goodman; page

       18        30, Calendar 667, Print Number 6368, by myself;

       19        page 35 -- excuse me -- Calendar Number 729,

       20        Senate Print Number 6758, by Senator Trunzo;
page

       21        number 43, Calendar 803, Print Number 233, by

       22        myself.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       24        amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

       25        will retain its place on the Third Reading







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        1        Calendar.

        2                      Senator Holland, do you have

        3        another motion?

        4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Yes.  On behalf

        5        of Senator Libous, please remove the sponsor's

        6        star from Calendar Number 314, I believe.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        8        sponsor's star is removed on Calendar Number
314.

        9                      Senator Holland.

       10                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President, I

       11        wish to call up my bill, Calendar Number 708,

       12        Assembly Print Number 1337.

       13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       14        Secretary will read.

       15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       16        708, by member of the Assembly Gromack, Assembly

       17        Print 1337, an act to amend the Executive Law.

       18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       19        Holland.

       20                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now move to

       21        reconsider the vote by which the Assembly bill

       22        was substituted for my bill, Senate Print Number

       23        6204, on the 4th of May.

       24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       25        Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.







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        1                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        2        reconsideration.)

        3                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 40.

        4                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  I now move that

        5        the Assembly Bill Number 1337 be recommitted to

        6        the Committee on Housing, Construction and

        7        Community Development and my Senate bill be

        8        restored to the order of Third Reading Calendar.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       10        will be recommitted and your bill will be

       11        restored.

       12                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Mr. President, I

       13        now offer the following amendments.

       14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       15        amendments are received and adopted.

       16                      Senator Holland, on the prior

       17        motion relative to which you said was Calendar

       18        Number 314, was that -

       19                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  That's what I

       20        understand.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is it 314

       22        or 3 and 4.

       23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  3 and 4.  Thank

       24        you very much.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  3 and 4.







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        1        Okay.  Thank you, Senator Holland.

        2                      I might suggest that you see the

        3        eye doctor.  (Laughter)

        4                      Senator Skelos, we have a couple

        5        of substitutions at the desk.

        6                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Read the

        7        substitutions, Mr. President.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        9        Secretary will read the substitutions.

       10                      THE SECRETARY:  On page 4, Senator

       11        DeFrancisco moves to discharge from the
Committee

       12        on Insurance Assembly Bill Number 72-A and

       13        substitute it for the identical First Report

       14        Calendar 878.

       15                      On page 16, Senator Trunzo moves

       16        to discharge from the Committee on Civil Service

       17        and Pensions Assembly Bill Number 5073-A and

       18        substitute it for the identical Third Reading

       19        Calendar 348.

       20                      On page 19, Senator Spano moves to

       21        discharge from the Committee on Labor Assembly

       22        Bill Number 10042 and substitute it for the

       23        identical Third Reading Calendar 449.

       24                      And on page 44, Senator Alesi

       25        moves to discharge from the Committee on







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        1        Transportation Assembly Bill Number 8028 and

        2        substitute it for the identical Third Reading

        3        Calendar 816.

        4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        5        substitutions are ordered.

        6                      Senator Skelos.

        7                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President,

        8        may we please adopt the Resolution Calendar with

        9        the exception of Resolutions 3388 and 3396.

       10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The motion

       11        is to accept the -- adopt the Resolution
Calendar

       12        with the exception of the Resolutions 3388 and

       13        3396.  All those in favor signify by saying aye.

       14                      (Response of "Aye".)

       15                      Opposed, nay.

       16                      (There was no response.)

       17                      The Resolution Calendar with those

       18        exceptions are adopted.

       19                      Senator Skelos.

       20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President, I

       21        believe there's a privileged resolution at the

       22        desk by Senator Johnson.  I ask that it be read

       23        in its entirety and move for its immediate

       24        adoption.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







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        1        Secretary will read the privileged resolution by

        2        Senator Johnson, Number 3452, in its entirety.

        3                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        4        Resolution by Senator Johnson commending and

        5        paying tribute to Kristin Rummell in recognition

        6        of her heroic act in donating her bone marrow to

        7        an individual and giving the gift of life;

        8                      WHEREAS, it is the sense of this

        9        legislative body to act in accord with its long

       10        standing traditions honoring the achievements of

       11        its promising citizens and leaders of tomorrow

       12        whose character and achievements best exemplify

       13        the ideals and values cherished by this great

       14        state and nation; and

       15                      WHEREAS, this legislative body is

       16        justly proud to commend and pay tribute to

       17        Kristin Rummell and other bone marrow donors

       18        during Bone Marrow Donor Awareness Week in

       19        recognition of their heroic act in donating
their

       20        bone marrow to individuals and giving the gift
of

       21        life.

       22                      Kristin Rummell, while a college

       23        student, registered as a potential donor joining

       24        over two and a half million volunteers in the

       25        registry.







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        1                      Many people in the United States

        2        have died because their desperate searches have

        3        not produced a matching donor in time.

        4                      Kristin Rummell, who is now a New

        5        York State Senate staff member, selflessly

        6        donated her bone marrow to an individual with

        7        whom her marrow matched, giving the gift of life

        8        to an unknown person.

        9                      An individual is faced with only

       10        about a 1 in 20,000 chance of finding an

       11        unrelated person who will match closely enough
to

       12        allow the opportunity for a bone marrow
notation;

       13        and

       14                      WHEREAS, Kristin Rummell's heroic

       15        action will stand as our inspiration and compel

       16        others to register with the national marrow
donor

       17        program; now, therefore, be it

       18                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

       19        body pause in its deliberations to honor Kristin

       20        Rummell and other bone marrow donors during Bone

       21        Marrow Donor Awareness Week; and be it further

       22                      RESOLVED, that a copy of this

       23        resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to

       24        Kristin Rummell.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair







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        1        recognizes Senator Johnson to speak on the

        2        resolution.

        3                      SENATOR JOHNSON:  Mr. President, I

        4        was very honored to have the opportunity to

        5        introduce this resolution during Bone Marrow
Week

        6        and to realize that bone marrow donors like
blood

        7        donors are not just anonymous people but they
may

        8        be individuals with whom you relate -- you have
a

        9        friendship or a relationship.

       10                      This young lady who's standing

       11        behind me now works in my office.  She's the

       12        daughter of my late good friend Bob Rummell.  As

       13        you heard in the resolution, she was impelled

       14        during her college days as an idealistic person.

       15        We should all start off idealistic.  She
remained

       16        idealistic.  She registered to be a bone marrow

       17        donor and she was called upon a few months ago
to

       18        help save the life of an individual who she does

       19        not know.  She made the donation of her bone

       20        marrow.  It was a, she said, rather painful

       21        process.  It took several months of healing but

       22        she did it to save a life, and I thought it's

       23        really -- rather than just have a resolution

       24        which we had yesterday which we all can identify

       25        with but to meet a real person who's made that







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        1        contribution, I think is wonderful to have her

        2        here and to be able to recognize her today.

        3                      So, Kristin, take a bow and we all

        4        are proud of you.  (Applause)

        5                      Thank you very much for your

        6        support of this resolution.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        8        question is on the resolution.  All those in

        9        favor signify by saying aye.

       10                      (Response of "Aye".)

       11                      Opposed, nay.

       12                      (There was no response.)

       13                      The resolution is adopted.

       14                      Senator Skelos.

       15                      SENATOR SKELOS:  May we please

       16        take up Resolution 3388 by Senator Johnson.  May

       17        we have it read in its entirety and move its

       18        immediate adoption.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       20        Secretary will read privileged Resolution 3388
by

       21        Senator Johnson in its entirety.

       22                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

       23        Resolution 3388, by Senator Johnson,

       24        memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to

       25        proclaim the week May 11 through May 15, 1998 as







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        1        School Transportation Personnel Week in the
state

        2        of New York;

        3                      WHEREAS, in New York State more

        4        than 2.2 million children are transported to and

        5        from their schools on school buses every day;
and

        6                      WHEREAS, these children ride in

        7        more than 35,000 yellow school buses over 350

        8        million miles per year in cities and towns and

        9        suburbs across the state; and

       10                      WHEREAS, the safety and well-being

       11        of these children are of the utmost concern to

       12        all New Yorkers.

       13                      Thousands of school transportation

       14        professionals, including school bus drivers,

       15        school bus aides and attendants, maintenance

       16        mechanics, school bus driver instructors, master

       17        instructors and examiners and transportation

       18        supervisors and directors work diligently to

       19        ensure the safety of these children.

       20                      The contribution these personnel

       21        make is immeasurable in terms of the lives of

       22        these school children; and

       23                      WHEREAS, the people of the state

       24        of New York respect the hard work and dedication

       25        of these individuals and wish to recognize them







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        1        for their steadfast dedication for the children;

        2        now, therefore, be it

        3                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

        4        body pause in its deliberations to memorialize

        5        Governor George E. Pataki to proclaim the week
of

        6        May 11 through May 15, 1998 as School

        7        Transportation Personnel Week in the state of
New

        8        York and to call upon all New Yorkers during
this

        9        time to recognize the valuable contributions of

       10        school transportation professionals in their
home

       11        and school communities.

       12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       13        question is on the resolution.  All those in

       14        favor signify by saying aye.

       15                      (Response of "Aye".)

       16                      Opposed, nay.

       17                      (There was no response.)

       18                      The resolution is adopted.

       19                      Senator Skelos.

       20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Can we take up

       21        the non-controversial calendar, please -- can we

       22        have Resolution 3396 by Senator Holland read in

       23        its entirety and move for its immediate
adoption.

       24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       25        Secretary will read the privileged Resolution







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        1        3396 by Senator Holland in its entirety.

        2                      THE SECRETARY:  Legislative

        3        Resolution 3396 by Senator Holland, honoring

        4        Rockland County upon the occasion of its
historic

        5        Bicentennial Celebration;

        6                      WHEREAS, it is the intent of this

        7        assembled body to honor and commemorate the
proud

        8        and distinguished histories of the communities

        9        which compromise the essence of this great
Empire

       10        State; and

       11                      WHEREAS, in accord with this

       12        intent and its long-standing traditions, it is

       13        the purpose of this assembled body to now

       14        commemorate the 200th Anniversary of Rockland

       15        County, joining in the recognition and

       16        celebration of the anniversary of this county
and

       17        commemorating the celebration that began with an

       18        opening day pageant on February 22, 1998.  The

       19        ceremony will officially commence an eight-month

       20        long series of events that will be held

       21        throughout the spring and summer and will

       22        culminate at the Bicentennial Dinner Dance at
the

       23        IBM Palisades Center in Palisades, New York, on

       24        October 24, 1998; and

       25                      WHEREAS, Henry Hudson is credited







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        1        as the first European to set eyes on what would

        2        become Rockland County.  In 1609 he sailed up
the

        3        river and mistakenly assumed he'd found the

        4        Northwest Passage.

        5                      Early attempts to settle the

        6        county by the Dutch were generally unsuccessful

        7        and in 1664 they handed over the territory to
the

        8        English.  In 1686 the Duke of York, later to

        9        become King James II of England, established the

       10        county system and designated what is now
Rockland

       11        County to be included in Orange County.

       12                      By the 1770s, the movement to

       13        separate what is now Rockland from Greater
Orange

       14        County was in full swing, a process that was

       15        completed in February of 1798; and

       16                      WHEREAS, during the American

       17        Revolution, Rockland County became an important

       18        crossroads, a vital link between the northern
and

       19        southern colonies and a scene of conflict and

       20        treason.  It played a crucial role in the
history

       21        of the United States and was the site of the

       22        first formal recognition of the new nation by
the

       23        British.

       24                      The New York State Legislature

       25        officially credited -- created Rockland County
on







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        1        February 23, 1798.

        2                      Improvements in transportation set

        3        the pace for development in the first half of
the

        4        19th Century.  The Nyack Turnpike was completed

        5        and that connected Nyack to Suffern, where the

        6        Orange Turnpike provided a route to Albany.

        7                      In 1827, steamboat travel debuted

        8        and to facilitate steamboat travel from Tappan

        9        Landing, a road was built over the marshes to
the

       10        end of a 500-foot pier which within a few yards

       11        became the terminus of the Erie Railroad.

       12                      Although agriculture remained

       13        dominant in Rockland County well into the 20th

       14        Century, industry saw a gradual growth; because

       15        of the proximity of iron mines, numerous metal

       16        products were made - plows, hoes, railings,

       17        nails, machinery, even cannonballs.  Its

       18        factories also made shoes, straw hats, silk and

       19        cotton cloth, sulfur, matches and pianos.

       20                      During this time the stone, brick,

       21        wood and nails from Rockland County literally

       22        built the city of New York; and

       23                      WHEREAS, schooling in the late

       24        18th and early 19th Century in Rockland County

       25        was done in the home or by private school
masters







                                                            3167

        1        in their houses or their pupils' homes, as

        2        compulsory education spread, there were 34
school

        3        districts established in the county by 1829.

        4                      In the mid-1900s, halls and opera

        5        houses were built to facilitate entertainment.

        6        Newspapers were established in Nyack and

        7        Haverstraw and a fire in Haverstraw in 1854

        8        brought about the formation of the first

        9        volunteer fire company.

       10                      Religion also played a prominent

       11        part in Rockland's history.  The earliest Dutch

       12        Reformed churches and later the Presbyterian

       13        churches laid the groundwork for other
Protestant

       14        denominations to flourish in the county.  The

       15        first Roman Catholic church in Rockland was St.

       16        Peter's Church in Haverstraw which opened in

       17        1847.  Haverstraw was also the site of the

       18        congregation of the Sons of Jacob which
completed

       19        and dedicated its first temple in 1889; and

       20                      WHEREAS, the dawn of the 20th

       21        Century saw the beginnings of the decline in the

       22        number of farms in Rockland and the general rise

       23        in industry.  Today the county is home to many

       24        international companies such as Avon, Lederle,

       25        Fujitsu and soon Mercedes-Benz.







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        1                      By the 1920s, Rockland County was

        2        becoming home to many artists, writers and stage

        3        celebrities.

        4                      Rockland County's rural character

        5        was changed forever with the opening of the

        6        Tappan Zee Bridge in 1955 and the completion of

        7        the Palisades Interstate Parkway and Thruway

        8        during the same decade; and

        9                      WHEREAS, Rockland County is one of

       10        the most ethnically diverse counties in the

       11        country and the Bicentennial Celebration will

       12        serve as a cohesive factor for the community;

       13        now, therefore, it be

       14                      RESOLVED, that this legislative

       15        body pause in its deliberations to honor
Rockland

       16        county upon the occasion of its historic

       17        Bicentennial celebration; and it be further

       18                      RESOLVED, that a copy of this

       19        resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to

       20        Rockland Bicentennial 1998, Incorporated.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       22        Holland on the resolution.

       23                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  We in Rockland

       24        County are very happy to celebrate the 200th

       25        Anniversary of Rockland County all this year.







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        1                      On the western shore of the Hudson

        2        River where the hustle and bustle of New York

        3        City yields to the tranquility of upstate, lies

        4        my community, Rockland County.

        5                      This year we are celebrating our

        6        200th birthday with a year-long celebration and

        7        grand events like the Tall Ships Riverfest that

        8        will take place over the Memorial Day weekend.

        9                      The county's relative youth defies

       10        Rockland County's rich history.

       11                      When Henry Hudson sailed into the

       12        Tappan Zee on September 24th, 1609 he was
greeted

       13        by the Algonquins, who had occupied the area for

       14        5- or 6,000 years.

       15                      As the British and Dutch began to

       16        compete for the highly desirable trading points

       17        along the Hudson, they purchased land from the

       18        Native Americans, most of whom were driven west.

       19                      Rockland's most vivid history

       20        remains the part it played in the Revolutionary

       21        War.  When local citizens passed the Orangetown

       22        resolutions on July the 4th, 1774, Rockland's

       23        role in the fight for independence had begun.

       24                      Rockland's position was critical

       25        as local militia maintained continual







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        1        surveillance on British warships patrolling the

        2        lower Hudson Valley.

        3                      Several major battles were fought

        4        on Rockland soil, including one of the most

        5        dramatic battles, the Battle of Stony Point.

        6                      Troops of General Washington's

        7        Continental Army, under the command of General

        8        "Mad" Anthony Wayne, made a daring bayonet night

        9        attack on Stony Point swiftly defeating the

       10        surprised British garrison.

       11                      Maybe the most notorious of the

       12        war involved revolutionary hero Major General

       13        Benedict Arnold.  Dissatisfied with his
treatment

       14        by the Army, Arnold arranged to surrender West

       15        Point to Sir Henry Clinton.

       16                      Clinton's spy master, British

       17        Major John Andre was captured with the traitor's

       18        plans.  Andre was tried, convicted and
eventually

       19        hanged in Tappan in Rockland County.

       20                      Brother against brother, neighbor

       21        versus neighbor, the region was torn apart by

       22        years of Tory and Patriot skirmishes and by

       23        marauding bands of outlaws, who stripped the

       24        families of their property and their livelihood.

       25                      During this time the Rockland







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        1        region was considered part of Orange County and

        2        it wasn't until February the 23rd, 1798, mainly

        3        due to the difficulty of traveling across the

        4        Ramapo mountains, that Rockland split from
Orange

        5        and established itself as a separate entity with

        6        New City as the county seat.

        7                      Though it had been ravished during

        8        the war years, by the early 19th Century,

        9        Rockland County had settled into a tranquil

       10        farming community.

       11                      Abundant water power encouraged

       12        the milling of grain, cider and wood and with
the

       13        industrial revolution came shipyards, quarries

       14        and ice operations.

       15                      The town of Haverstraw became

       16        known for its brick industry and was
instrumental

       17        in building much of 19th Century New York City,

       18        many of those buildings still standing.  In its

       19        heyday, there were 106 brick- making businesses

       20        in Rockland County and the brick manufacturers

       21        were digging under the city to get more clay to

       22        make bricks and there was a collapse in 1906.

       23        Many people were killed.  Fires raged into the

       24        night.

       25                      These industries persisted into







                                                            3172

        1        the 20th Century when early scientists began to

        2        set up shop and ushered in one of the first
waves

        3        of high tech' industry.

        4                      During World War II, Camp Shanks

        5        at Orangeburg was the largest Army embarkation
on

        6        the East Coast, sending 1.3 million American

        7        troops to England and North Africa and keeping

        8        many German and Italian prisoners during that

        9        time.

       10                      Today, in addition to being a hub

       11        for high tech' business and a great place to

       12        raise a family, Rockland is probably the best

       13        known as the gateway to the Hudson Valley.

       14                      While most of you have driven

       15        through it, I would like to extend to each and

       16        every one of you a personal invitation to stop
by

       17        and experience Rockland County during its

       18        bicentennial year.

       19                      Thank you very much.

       20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       21        DeFrancisco on the resolution.

       22                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Would the

       23        sponsor yield to a question?  (Laughter) I was

       24        just curious if -

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                            3173

        1        Holland, Senator DeFrancisco enjoyed all -- you

        2        were enlightening the members so much and in

        3        sharing those personal experiences with us about

        4        Rockland County that he has a question.  He
wants

        5        to know if you would yield to a question.

        6                      SENATOR HOLLAND:  Certainly.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        8        Senator yields.

        9                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  What role,

       10        if any, did Rockland County have in the Civil

       11        War?  (Laughter)

       12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       13        question is on the resolution.  All those
members

       14        in favor signify by saying aye.

       15                      (Response of "Aye".)

       16                      Opposed, nay.

       17                      (There was no response.)

       18                      The resolution is adopted.

       19                      Senator Bruno.

       20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, can

       21        we at this time take up the non- controversial

       22        calendar.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       24        Secretary will read the non-controversial

       25        calendar.







                                                            3174

        1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        2        413, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4519-B, an

        3        act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the

        4        Social Services Law and the Family Court Act, in

        5        relation to changing.

        6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        7        Secretary -

        8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

       10        bill aside.

       11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       12        549, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2669, an

       13        act to amend the Town Law, in relation to

       14        expanding from fire district revenues.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Secretary will read the last section.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

       18        act shall take effect immediately.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       20        roll.

       21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       24        is passed.

       25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                            3175

        1        595, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6663, an

        2        act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

        3        correcting cross-references.

        4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        5        Secretary will read the last section.

        6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 8.  This

        7        act shall take effect immediately.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        9        roll.

       10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 53.

       12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       13        is passed.

       14                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       15        654, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6600, an
act

       16        to amend the Penal Law, in relation to loitering

       17        and the unauthorized boarding of school buses.

       18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       19        Secretary will read the last section.

       20                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

       21        act shall take effect on the first day of

       22        November.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       24        roll.

       25                      (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                            3176

        1                      THE SECRETARY:  Eyes 43.

        2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        3        is passed.

        4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        5        655, by Senator Goodman -

        6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Lay it aside.

        7                      THE SECRETARY:  -- Senate Print

        8        6794 -

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

       10        bill aside.

       11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       12        668, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6475, an

       13        act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

       14        the Commission on Uniform State Laws.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Secretary will read the last section.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

       18        act shall take effect immediately.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       20        roll.

       21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       24        is passed.

       25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                            3177

        1        675, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2248 -

        2                      SENATOR WALDON:  Lay it aside.

        3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

        4        bill aside.

        5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        6        679, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print -

        7                      SENATOR WALDON:  Lay it aside.

        8                      THE SECRETARY:  -- 5182.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

       10        bill aside.

       11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       12        688, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 2014, an act

       13        to amend the Education Law, in relation to

       14        displaying the flag of the state of New York.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Secretary will read the last section.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

       18        act shall take effect on the 60th day.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       20        roll.

       21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       24        is passed.

       25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                            3178

        1        700, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3742-B, an

        2        act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to

        3        establishing a second County Court.

        4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        5        Secretary will read the last section.

        6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        7        act shall take effect January 1.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        9        roll.

       10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record the

       12        negative and announce the results.

       13                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54, nays 1,

       14        Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       16        is passed.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       18        726, by member of the Assembly Weinstein,

       19        Assembly Print 9167, an act to amend Chapter 729

       20        of the Laws of 1994.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       22        Secretary will read the last section.

       23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

       24        act shall take effect immediately.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the







                                                            3179

        1        roll.

        2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55.

        3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        4        is passed.

        5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        6        728, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6411, an act

        7        to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law,

        8        in relation to establishment of a presumption.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       10        Secretary will read the last section.

       11                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Lay it aside.

       12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there a

       13        lay aside on that bill?

       14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Hold on just

       15        one moment, please.

       16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is there a

       17        lay aside on Calendar Number 728?  Does some

       18        member wish to lay it aside?

       19                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  I'll just vote

       20        in the negative.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Don't feel

       22        obliged to.  Is that something you wish to do,

       23        Senator Leichter?  Lay Calendar Number

       24        728 -

       25                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  No, no.







                                                            3180

        1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  You want

        2        to vote no.  Okay.  The Secretary will read the

        3        last section.

        4                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        5        act shall take effect immediately.

        6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        7        roll.

        8                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record the

       10        negative.

       11                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54, nays 1,

       12        Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

       13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       14        is passed.

       15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       16        815, by Senator Bruno -

       17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Lay it aside.

       18                      THE SECRETARY:  -- Senate Print

       19        706 -

       20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

       21        bill aside.

       22                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       23        825, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 6884, an

       24        act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

       25        relation to required identification.







                                                            3181

        1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        2        Secretary will read the last section.

        3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

        4        act shall take effect immediately.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        6        roll.

        7                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        8                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       10        is passed.

       11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       12        826, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6981, an
act

       13        to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation

       14        to requiring school bus drivers to ensure.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Secretary will read the last section.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

       18        act shall take effect on the first day of

       19        September.

       20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       21        roll.

       22                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       23                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays 1,

       24        Senator Meier recorded in the negative.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill







                                                            3182

        1        is passed.

        2                      Senator Bruno, that completes the

        3        reading of the non-controversial calendar.

        4        What's your pleasure?

        5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, can

        6        we at this time take up the controversial

        7        calendar.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        9        Secretary will read the -- the Secretary will

       10        read the controversial calendar, beginning with

       11        Calendar Number 915 at the request of the

       12        Majority Leader.

       13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       14        815, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 706, an act

       15        to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation

       16        to the disqualification of a school bus driver
in

       17        certain instances.

       18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       20        Bruno, an explanation of Calendar Number 815 has

       21        been requested by Senator Paterson, the Acting

       22        Minority Leader.

       23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Thank you very

       24        much, Mr. President.

       25                      This is a bill that changes the







                                                            3183

        1        Vehicle and Traffic Law of this state.  This is
a

        2        piece of legislation that we have passed in this

        3        house for two previous years, two years ago

        4        unanimously, last year unanimous minus four
votes

        5        and it does something, Mr. President, that needs

        6        to be done in this state.

        7                      It removes drunken bus drivers,

        8        who drive our children, from behind the wheel.

        9        It removes those that test positive for using

       10        drugs from getting behind the wheel and

       11        transporting our most precious cargo, our

       12        children.

       13                      Federal law and state law

       14        addresses the question of testing, random
testing

       15        of bus drivers, but the problem is that when bus

       16        drivers are tested positive for alcohol or
drugs,

       17        there is no way that the school district can do

       18        much other than get them into some program,

       19        chastise them, potentially a maximum fine of
$250

       20        and they're back behind the wheel.

       21                      In my district, the same bus

       22        driver was behind the wheel three times and
found

       23        in testing to be under the influence of alcohol

       24        and/or drugs.  That is wrong.  This law will

       25        change that.







                                                            3184

        1                      A driver's license in this state

        2        is a privilege.  It is not a divine right

        3        belonging to each and every individual. 
Driver's

        4        licenses are removed from people who abuse the

        5        privilege of driving and any bus driver -- and
in

        6        the capital region, in the district of Troy,
they

        7        are on the verge of trying -- and they're trying

        8        to break the contract with a bus company because

        9        any number of drivers have been tested and found

       10        positive, endangering the welfare and the lives

       11        of our children.

       12                      Now, why should parents have to

       13        put a child on a bus and worry themselves until

       14        that child gets home that some driver who has
the

       15        trust entrusted to look after those children may

       16        not be thinking clearly or acting properly?

       17                      So this bill has passed, as I've

       18        said, overwhelmingly for good reason.  All we

       19        change here is that if a person is tested, they

       20        can request, if they're not happy with the

       21        result, a second test from the same specimen and

       22        if that second test proves positive, they then

       23        can have their license revoked permanently and

       24        that means that if they were hired to drive a

       25        bus, they would then be undoubtedly fired by the







                                                            3185

        1        school district because if they're bus drivers

        2        without a license, they're not going to drive

        3        many buses.

        4                      That's the intent of this law.  I

        5        understand those that are concerned about the

        6        civil rights of individuals.  I am concerned

        7        about an individual's civil right.  I am also

        8        concerned about our children who by the tens of

        9        thousands board buses every day and we cannot

       10        allow the condition that presently exists to

       11        continue.

       12                      So, Mr. President, that's the

       13        explanation, and I would humbly recommend that

       14        those people that are so inclined support this

       15        legislation.

       16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       17        Paterson.

       18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

       19        President.

       20                      Would the distinguished Majority

       21        Leader yield for a few questions?

       22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  I will, Mr.

       23        President, for our very distinguished Minority

       24        Leader.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                            3186

        1        Senator yields.

        2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        3        I want to advise the members today that there
was

        4        an incident in New York City last week where a

        5        former teacher who had been put on the list for

        6        those not eligible to act as a substitute
teacher

        7        inadvertently was rehired at a school district,

        8        15 years prior had assaulted a student and that

        9        was the reason why this teacher had been taken

       10        off the list and in the classroom this teacher
is

       11        alleged to have assaulted many students with a

       12        chair and was actually arrested toward the end
of

       13        last week in New York City.

       14                      Assuming this legislation passes

       15        -- because it did last year -- I wanted to ask

       16        the Majority Leader what will be some of the

       17        measures that will be taken to ensure that when

       18        it becomes law that it's actually enforced

       19        properly?

       20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  It is enforced

       21        properly?

       22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Yes.

       23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  The law mandates

       24        that if the person tests positive that the
school

       25        district -- that they would have their license







                                                            3187

        1        revoked by the Department of Motor Vehicle.  So

        2        that it removes it from the jurisdiction of the

        3        district and it also supersedes, if this were

        4        law, the collective bargaining arrangement that

        5        might have been made where they have bargained

        6        away their right to dismiss as they may have in

        7        the instance that you just described, Senator.

        8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        9        President.

       10                      If Senator Bruno would yield for

       11        another question.

       12                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Yes, Mr.

       13        President.

       14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       15        Senator yields.

       16                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator Bruno,

       17        we have a number of studies that were presented

       18        to us by some of the lobbying organizations, the

       19        New York Civil Liberties Union, the Civil
Service

       20        Employees Association, demonstrating that in

       21        tests conducted by the general accounting office

       22        and also by the Center for Disease Control -

       23        thank you -- that the possibility of a false

       24        positive arising from a test varies from between

       25        3 and 30 percent in different studies.  With the







                                                            3188

        1        distinct possibility of a false positive, we

        2        would not want to destroy the reputation of a

        3        driver that is not engaging in any substance

        4        abuse and prohibit them from pursuing their

        5        career as a bus driver.

        6                      At the same time, we recognize the

        7        importance to protecting children and that if

        8        there is any gray area, we would probably want
to

        9        err, if we do err, in the direction of saving

       10        children.

       11                      Nonetheless, under the federal

       12        law, there is a much more distinct and much more

       13        specific reference to dual testing.  I suggested

       14        on the floor last year that perhaps we might

       15        write it into this legislation since it wouldn't

       16        change in any way any of the results as it would

       17        remove those drivers that are proven in double

       18        tests to be substance abusers.

       19                      I was wondering if the Majority

       20        Leader had an opinion or a comment on why we

       21        can't change the legislation as it's written to

       22        coincide with the way it appears in the federal

       23        law.

       24                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Well, it's my

       25        understanding, Senator, that the fed's have







                                                            3189

        1        mandated random testing in many areas in our

        2        society and we have been doing that for years,

        3        and the tests that are taken, if we understand

        4        them correctly, would leave very little room for

        5        error because when a person is suspected or

        6        randomly tested, a specimen is taken.  It is

        7        separated into two parts and one part is put

        8        aside and one part is immediately tested.  If

        9        that test is positive and the alleged
perpetrator

       10        feels that that's unfair, they can then request
a

       11        second test before the district is even notified

       12        of the results of the first test and then that

       13        second half of the specimen is taken to an

       14        entirely different facility, another lab where

       15        they would do a totally separate independent
test

       16        for the second time and if it is found to be

       17        positive, well, then this law would take effect.

       18        The employer is notified.  DMV is notified.  The

       19        person loses their license.

       20                      So it would seem that there's very

       21        little room for error by two separate facilities

       22        who specialize in these kinds of tests.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       24        Paterson.

       25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.







                                                            3190

        1        President.

        2                      I want to thank the Majority

        3        Leader for his responses and on the bill, Mr.

        4        President.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        6        Paterson on the bill.

        7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  We have a

        8        situation where, as the Majority Leader

        9        explained, we would be using the same specimen

       10        and there's the possibility to conduct a second

       11        test to confirm the validity of the first test.

       12                      As we mentioned before, the issue

       13        of child protection and children safety really

       14        must supersede all other issues.  However, the

       15        issue of clarity, so that in looking at the law

       16        those who would be inclined to participate in
the

       17        legal right of representation of one who is

       18        accused of testing positive, there would be a

       19        clear understanding of what the options that the

       20        defendant would enjoy in this type of

       21        circumstance.  We don't think that the clarity

       22        should in any way serve to diminish the value of

       23        this legislation and we just felt that the

       24        federal protection could have been applied to
the

       25        state and could have been written into this







                                                            3191

        1        legislation.

        2                      I'm going to vote for the bill,

        3        Mr. President.  I think it has great merit, and
I

        4        think that the issue of child protection must be

        5        favored above all others in a situation where we

        6        have seen a number -- and frankly alarming
number

        7        of situations where children were hurt because a

        8        substance abuser was operating a vehicle

        9        supposedly to transport them from home to school

       10        and from school back to custodial care and yet

       11        they wound up in an accident due to the

       12        irresponsibility of the individual.

       13                      However, in these situations, it

       14        must be noted that there are several instances
of

       15        false testing.  I don't think that anyone here

       16        may have been victimized by it.  There's a
former

       17        colleague of ours who was victimized by it in a

       18        situation, and I think we should attune
ourselves

       19        and should familiarize ourselves with how

       20        frequently these false tests occur.

       21                      As I said before, the general

       22        accounting office in one test and other tests

       23        conducted by the Center for Disease Control

       24        estimate that in some cases the false positive

       25        can be reached in an alarming rate of 30 percent







                                                            3192

        1        and how much more foresighted, I think it would

        2        have been, to have just written the legislation

        3        so that the protections of those accused would
be

        4        made just as clear in our state-sponsored

        5        legislation as what was mandated by federal law

        6        which we would certainly be serving at the same

        7        time.

        8                      As I said, I'm going to vote for

        9        the bill but because we are not able at this

       10        point scientifically to have our tests be as

       11        accurate as we can test other diseases or other

       12        maladies, we would really try to convince the

       13        sponsor before making this law that perhaps that

       14        slight change would put the bill in a spectrum
in

       15        which we would all be able to support it.

       16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       17        Farley on the bill.  Senator Farley.

       18                      SENATOR FARLEY:  You know, this

       19        might seem like an insignificant piece of

       20        legislation to some, but let me just tell you in

       21        Niskayuna, the town where I live, a bus driver

       22        was arrested driving children for being under
the

       23        influence of alcohol.  The children that were

       24        riding the bus had to report him to the police

       25        because of his erratic driving.







                                                            3193

        1                      I think it's absolutely outrageous

        2        that we can have people that are under the

        3        influence of alcohol driving young children in a

        4        community.  It happened just recently here in my

        5        hometown of Niskayuna.

        6                      I urge the support of this bill.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Any other

        8        Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        9                      (There was no response.)

       10                      Hearing none, the Secretary will

       11        read the last section.

       12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 4.  This

       13        act shall take effect immediately.

       14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       15        roll.

       16                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record the

       18        negatives.  Announce the results.

       19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays 2,

       20        Senators Montgomery and Sampson recorded in the

       21        negative.

       22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       23        is passed.

       24                      Senator Smith, why do you rise?

       25                      SENATOR SMITH:  I request







                                                            3194

        1        unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

        2        on Calendar Number 815.

        3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        4        objection, hearing no objection, Senator Smith

        5        will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        6        Number 815.

        7                      Senator -

        8                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Recognize Senator

        9        Goodman for an announcement and then Senator

       10        Marchi.

       11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

       12        recognizes Senator Goodman.

       13                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

       14        it's with a great deal of pleasure that I remind

       15        members on both sides of the aisle that tonight

       16        is a very important night in the calendar year
of

       17        every state Senator because it is the annual

       18        meeting of the Senate Club of the state of New

       19        York.

       20                      The Senate Club for many years had

       21        a restrictive clause which said that it was

       22        necessary to have five years of Senate service

       23        before joining the club, but in view of an

       24        enlightened change in that policy, every member

       25        of the Senate is now eligible along with every







                                                            3195

        1        alumnus of the Senate and all the alumni often

        2        make it a point to return, including some of our

        3        most distinguished former leaders and governors

        4        of the state and the like, and may I just say to

        5        members that in addition to all of these

        6        intellectively brilliant attractions, we're also

        7        providing some secret highly cultural

        8        entertainment for your delectation and delight

        9        this evening, and I hope you'll make it a
certain

       10        point to join us.

       11                      The dues for the club are very

       12        modest.  The returns are enormous in terms of

       13        gastronomy, other types of refreshment which can

       14        be obtained in cylindrical shaped vessels and

       15        excellent good fellowship beyond descript -- my

       16        humble powers of description.  Please come to

       17        Jack's Restaurant, 6:30 cocktails, 7:00 o'clock

       18        dinner.  We'll see you there.

       19                      Thank you very much, Mr.

       20        President.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The Chair

       22        recognizes Senator Marchi.

       23                      SENATOR MARCHI:  I'm just

       24        wondering whether this reunion of Senators is
fit

       25        for general population.







                                                            3196

        1                      In any event, Mr. President, it

        2        has been one of our better traditions in the

        3        Capitol to have -- be visited and honored by the

        4        presence of members of the St. John's University

        5        School of Law with us.

        6                      Their record is really

        7        tremendous.  Strangely they have not accepted

        8        Bundy money just so that they could maintain
some

        9        of the freedom and flexibility which they feel
is

       10        appropriate to them and notwith- standing, they

       11        have been able to stand the rigors without

       12        enormous foundations and provide education of

       13        great quality.

       14                      I'm the oldest member of this

       15        genre of Senators and legislators, but we also

       16        have the presence of the youngest member who
told

       17        me very boldly that he was born before I was -

       18        before I came to this chamber and he's a

       19        brilliant young man, and I yield to him for the

       20        purpose of recognizing some of the governance at

       21        the university and express his pleasure so that

       22        we come within our grasp all of the -- all of

       23        those who -- and I'm sure this embraces the

       24        entire chamber -- the -- of the St. John's

       25        presence here in the state Capitol.  We've had
it







                                                            3197

        1        every year and we look forward to it.

        2                      I yield to my brilliant colleague

        3        who wasn't even born when I came to the Senate

        4        but shows enormous promise and the fact that
this

        5        body will be rejuvenated by the freshness and

        6        intelligence that he characterizes and exhibits.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        8        Balboni.

        9                      SENATOR BALBONI:  Thank you,

       10        Senator Marchi.

       11                      And until you said my name, nobody

       12        in the chamber knew who you were speaking about.

       13        They're still not sure it applies, but I

       14        appreciate the opportunity nonetheless.

       15                      Senator Bruno, I appreciate the -

       16        this occasion that you've allowed us to join
with

       17        the celebration for St. John's University School

       18        of Law.

       19                      I share many things in common with

       20        my predecessor.  This is one of my -- the more

       21        proud moments that I have to stand on the floor

       22        for the first time, as Mike Tully was also an

       23        alumni of St. John's Law School and today
joining

       24        with us is Dean Rudy Hasl, Richard Kane, Judge

       25        Milton Mollen, the former presiding justice of







                                                            3198

        1        the second department appellate division and the

        2        Reverend Richard Kehoe, chaplain of the law

        3        school, along with several of the alumni that

        4        join us in the gallery.

        5                      Mr. President, it's my honor to

        6        welcome them here this year as a member of the

        7        state Senate.  It's a very proud moment for me

        8        and my family indeed.

        9                      Thank you very much.

       10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       11        Balboni, on behalf of Senator Bruno and yourself

       12        and all the other members, we certainly welcome

       13        these distinguished alumni of St. John's Law

       14        School to the Senate chamber.  Have an extremely

       15        terrific and good time while you're here in the

       16        Capitol and thank you for sharing a moment of

       17        your day with all of us.  Gentlemen.

       18                      (Applause)

       19                      Senator Bruno.

       20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President, can

       21        we at this time continue with the controversial

       22        calendar.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       24        Secretary will continue to read the
controversial

       25        calendar in regular order.







                                                            3199

        1                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        2        413, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4519-B, an

        3        act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the

        4        Social Services Law and the Family Court Act.

        5                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

        6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        7        Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 413
has

        8        been requested by Senator Paterson.

        9                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President,

       10        this bill amends various sections of the
Domestic

       11        Relations Law, the Social Services Law and the

       12        Family Court Act to replace or substitute the

       13        term "parenting time" for the term "visitation".

       14                      The bill, I believe passed earlier

       15        this year.  It's been recalled for technical

       16        reasons.  The technical reasons will be found in

       17        Section 10 of the bill and basically it
addresses

       18        the fact that when the bill was originally

       19        drafted last year, we hadn't passed the major

       20        support reform piece that we had done later in

       21        the 1997 session.  The bill now includes that

       22        particular session in its amendments.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       24        Paterson.

       25                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Sorry.  I was







                                                            3200

        1        just consulting with my counsel.  Now I'm ready

        2        for my -- my question, if Senator Saland will

        3        yield for a question.

        4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        5        Saland, do you yield?

        6                      SENATOR SALAND:  Certainly, Mr.

        7        President.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        9        Senator yields.

       10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

       11                      Senator, is -- the term

       12        "parenting" as opposed to "visitation", I would

       13        imagine is -- that the whole genesis of this is

       14        the idea of having a greater responsibility on

       15        behalf of the party that would actually benefit

       16        from the new title and to, I guess as a public

       17        apology -- public policy encourage greater

       18        participation.

       19                      However, many of the support

       20        groups in the area have pointed out that the
mere

       21        allowance of visitation does not connote that

       22        there's full participation of the other party.

       23                      So my question is, would we want

       24        to be, in a sense granting that title or create

       25        that standing of the other party to assert it to







                                                            3201

        1        the child when, in fact, what the child is

        2        unaware of is that that party is maybe not

        3        necessarily keeping up their end or fully

        4        participating as a parent?

        5                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President, my

        6        intention with this bill was basically to say to

        7        non-custodial parents that unlike visiting an

        8        inmate or unlike making a visit to some

        9        institutional setting, whether it be

       10        correctional, whether it be a mental institution

       11        of some kind, that this was more than

       12        visitation.

       13                      A parent is a parent.  How that

       14        parent lives up to his or her responsibilities

       15        was not addressed by this particular bill and

       16        when you say "support groups", I am aware of a

       17        memo, one memo in opposition, and I must tell

       18        you, other than the fact that I find it amusing,

       19        it is the most appalling, territorial, disgrace

       20        ful memo that I have ever seen issued by any

       21        group regarding any issue.

       22                      This knee jerk, slap slick,

       23        abysmal piece that's now put out is a disgrace.

       24        They should be ashamed of themselves and when
you

       25        talk about territoriality, you talk about just







                                                            3202

        1        trying to cut out the other guy and here we're

        2        talking about another guy now has found a low. 
I

        3        have never seen anybody or any group sink to a

        4        lower level than I have with this memo, and if

        5        that is what you are referring to, really, you
do

        6        justice neither to the many equitable causes
that

        7        you have done battle for, and certainly I would

        8        hope that that is not the basis upon which you

        9        raise these questions.

       10                      This piece of garbage is nothing

       11        more than an effort to try and be territorial
and

       12        just to shut the door and slam it right in the

       13        face of non-custodial parents.  That's all.  We

       14        don't like it because it's not punitive.

       15        Therefore, we're going to oppose it and if any

       16        third-party rational person looked at this rag,

       17        once they stopped laughing, they would be

       18        appalled also.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       20        Paterson.

       21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well -

       22                      SENATOR SALAND:  But other than

       23        that, I don't feel strongly about it.

       24                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Well, I'll tell

       25        you what, Senator Saland, let's forget about
that







                                                            3203

        1        memo.  Why don't you and I just have a

        2        conversation on it.

        3                      SENATOR SALAND:  Incidentally, if

        4        I may, Senator Paterson, this bill passed, if I

        5        can coin Senator Bruno's earlier comments or
draw

        6        on them, unanimously with the exception of one

        7        vote last time when we entertained it.

        8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I sure hope it

        9        wasn't mine.  (Laughter)

       10                      Senator, what I'm referring to -

       11        and to be honest with you, I think in situations

       12        of custody battles, you do see the frustration

       13        of, I would say of both parties coming out and

       14        you do observe a lot of writings that clearly

       15        have a great deal of passion, and I would even

       16        concede that there is a territorial nature to it

       17        as you describe, maybe perhaps because of the

       18        parameters of custody and the over-arching

       19        problems that young children have, and I think

       20        your point is well taken.

       21                      However, just on the meritorious

       22        issues that may be raised from just a perusal of

       23        what we're intending to try to change in the law

       24        from your legislation, suppose you have a

       25        situation where you have a custody battle
between







                                                            3204

        1        two parents -- and I'm not going to assume that

        2        either won the custody battle and I'm just going

        3        to say that disgruntled parent that did not win

        4        custody very often tries to convince the child

        5        that they are an equal partner even if they

        6        aren't -- even if they aren't contributing

        7        equally.  So visitations at school and all

        8        different types of activity occur which makes it

        9        very difficult for the custodial parent to make

       10        decisions, separate visitations for medical care

       11        and that kind of thing.  These are every-day

       12        problems that people experience from trying to
be

       13        a custodial parent and yet trying to fulfill the

       14        visitation requirement as the court compels

       15        individuals to adhere to.

       16                      So my question is when you have

       17        these situations, to now change the title and

       18        refer to it as parental visits, in those cases -

       19        and I'm not assuming that all non-custodial

       20        parents don't contribute, but in those cases

       21        where the parent is not contributing, I'm just

       22        asking you, why do we want to bestow that title

       23        on someone, whether it is a man or a woman, that

       24        hasn't earned it?

       25                      SENATOR SALAND:  If I may.  It







                                                            3205

        1        would seem to me, then, that what you're

        2        advocating is that simply by the use of a term,

        3        we should be judging the relative merits of

        4        claims by people involved in custodial disputes.

        5        In other words, the term, whether it be parental

        6        visitation -- or parental rights, I'm sorry -

        7        parental time or visitation should be used

        8        somehow or other to denote what, in fact, is the

        9        interaction between a parent and child as

       10        perceived by some less than disinterested party,

       11        mainly the other person who would be the

       12        custodial parent.

       13                      I mean, that's really what I think

       14        you're saying to me, and I would no more think

       15        that we should do that, than I would think that

       16        we should punish all non-custodial parents by

       17        giving them, in effect, a secondary status by
way

       18        of terming their time with their children,

       19        however frequently and however appropriately and

       20        however lovingly and responsibly they deal with

       21        those children, by terming it visitation.  They

       22        are exercising the rights of a parent as a court

       23        has permitted them to do and perhaps they would

       24        like to exercise it even more but the court's

       25        directive will not permit them to do that and
the







                                                            3206

        1        custodial parent will not permit that visitation

        2        or parental time beyond what has been decreed by

        3        way of a court order.

        4                      Similarly, are we to condemn every

        5        -- every custodial parent because some custodial

        6        parents, be it men or women, needlessly call in

        7        reports to the central registry of child abuse
in

        8        order to gain an advantage in custodial fights?

        9        Should we somehow or other call those custodial

       10        parents something different because they've been

       11        tainted by the action of some small percentage?

       12                      This is a very simple bill.  There

       13        is really no great substantive change that this

       14        bill offers.  All we're doing is changing the

       15        references collectively wherever the word

       16        "visitation" is used to "parenting time".

       17                      We are not being judgmental.  We

       18        are not saying one way or the other that they're

       19        perfectly harmonious parental relationships.  We

       20        are not saying that they are less than
harmonious

       21        relationships.  We are just talking in terms of

       22        parental time.  That's what I would think would

       23        be appropriate.  I mean, the birth certificate

       24        says that's the parent, the non-custodial person

       25        is the parent and that person may exercise to
the







                                                            3207

        1        fullest, as I mentioned before, a desire even

        2        more than he's permitted by law or she's

        3        permitted by law and others, as you point out,

        4        may do that in a less than admirable fashion and

        5        may not even abide by this responsibility.  Do
we

        6        paint all as being bad, because that's what this

        7        now memo would have us do, that every

        8        non-custodial parent should be punished because

        9        there are non- custodial parents who fail to

       10        abide by what is either morally or judiciously

       11        required of them as a parent, therefore, a pox
on

       12        every one of their houses.

       13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       14        Paterson.

       15                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I'm just going

       16        to ask one final question.  It's physical
fitness

       17        day, and I don't want to be responsible for

       18        driving Senator Saland's blood pressure up. 
They

       19        were just testing it, but I just want to -- just

       20        a point of clarification, Senator Saland.

       21                      So the genesis of the legislation

       22        would be that you feel that with this change in

       23        title, this would actually, if anything,

       24        encourage the other parent who is the non

       25        custodial parent to have a greater involvement







                                                            3208

        1        because we are making it clear in the law that

        2        they are equally a parent.

        3                      SENATOR SALAND:  I'm being advised

        4        by my ever esteemed counsel, Senator
DeFrancisco,

        5        that it calls for a yes or no answer.  Let me

        6        just suggest I had a marvelous catharsis and I

        7        don't have any blood pressure problems.  I feel

        8        very well, Senator Paterson, but I would simply

        9        add that it wasn't my intention of doing

       10        something substantive.

       11                      My intention was to somehow or

       12        other say to those parents, those non-custodial

       13        parents, who have in so many different ways done

       14        whatever would be required of them and perhaps

       15        gone beyond, that they shouldn't have to feel

       16        like outsiders.  They shouldn't have to feel
that

       17        they were less than a parent, and it would seem

       18        to me that when I have non-custodial parents who

       19        are telling me in my capacity as the chairman of

       20        the Children and Families Committee that they

       21        find the word "visitation" very difficult to

       22        accept inasmuch as they feel they're more than

       23        mere visitors with their children, that this is

       24        an appropriate response and to the extent that

       25        this memo, as I said earlier, says if they're
not







                                                            3209

        1        all good, they're all bad, I think that's a

        2        terrible judgment to make and I really think
it's

        3        a shameful judgment to make.

        4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        5        Paterson.

        6                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

        7        a point of clarification, if Senator Saland
would

        8        yield.

        9                      SENATOR SALAND:  Certainly, Mr.

       10        President.

       11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       12        Senator continues to yield.

       13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, there

       14        are at times situations where the grandparents
or

       15        some other relative of the child are exercising

       16        the visitation.  Would the term apply to them,
or

       17        would you -- would we use visitation?

       18                      SENATOR SALAND:  The term for

       19        grandparents would more appropriately be

       20        visitation.

       21                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Okay.  Thank

       22        you very much, Senator.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       24        Secretary will read the last section.

       25                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 46.  This







                                                            3210

        1        act shall take effect immediately.

        2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        3        roll.

        4                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        6        DeFrancisco to explain his vote.

        7                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I don't know

        8        what the memo said but I haven't read it.  My

        9        reason for voting no is very simple.

       10                      Senator Saland indicated that this

       11        bill represented no substantive change.  If it

       12        represents no substantive change, then I see no

       13        purpose in it, but more importantly I think the

       14        fact is that we in the legal profession have a

       15        body of case law that we rely on interpreting

       16        very important language and bills and there's a

       17        whole body and many, many years of case law in

       18        interpreting the word "visitation" and to start
a

       19        new term which may be subject to dispute may, in

       20        some ways, change that case law when, in fact,

       21        the sponsor says that the intent is not to

       22        substantively change anything.

       23                      So I vote no.

       24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       25        DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative.







                                                            3211

        1        Announce the vote.

        2                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 57, nays 2,

        3        Senators DeFrancisco and Meier recorded in the

        4        negative.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        6        is passed.

        7                      The Secretary will continue to

        8        read the controversial calendar.

        9                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       10        655, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6794, an

       11        act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the

       12        Executive Law.

       13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Explanation.

       14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       15        Goodman, an explanation has been requested of

       16        Calendar Number 655 by Senator Waldon.

       17                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Mr. President,

       18        let me first take you on a quick trip down
memory

       19        lane to give you a little of the history of

       20        what's going on with this bill.

       21                      In June of 1995 at the insistence

       22        of the Governor, a Sentencing Reform Act was

       23        passed enacted to ensure that violent felony

       24        offenders receive appropriate prison sentences.

       25        This was a get tough law by its intent and was
so







                                                            3212

        1        fashioned and so implemented and among other

        2        provisions, that measure, first of all, created

        3        determinate sentences for second violent felony

        4        offenders.  It eliminated parole for second

        5        violent felony offenders and required them to

        6        serve six-sevenths of the determinate sentence.

        7        It required that first violent felony offenders

        8        serve a minimum of one half rather than
one-third

        9        of their maximum sentence.  It lengthened the

       10        permissible terms of imprisonment for persistent

       11        violent felony offenders.

       12                      In view of the increased penalties

       13        that were imposed by that law, the Governor in

       14        his judgment felt that in order to ensure

       15        sufficient prison space to house these inmates,

       16        the Sentencing Reform Act should also have a

       17        provision for the deportation to the country of

       18        origin of criminal aliens who are in prison for

       19        non-violent felony offenses prior to the

       20        expiration of their minimum term.

       21                      As has been the case with other

       22        states that have enacted similar programs in

       23        conjunction with the federal government, the

       24        program has resulted in the deportation of over

       25        1,000 offenders from New York State prisons to







                                                            3213

        1        their country of origin, thereby ensuring that

        2        the prison system can house the violent
offenders

        3        who are incarcerated under the provisions of
this

        4        get tough act.

        5                      However -- and it's an important

        6        "however" -- the early parole for deportation

        7        purposes to the most serious drug offenders

        8        should be denied in cases where there are

        9        offenses of an A-1 or A-2 felony nature
involving

       10        the possession of significant amounts of

       11        controlled substances.  The principal criterion

       12        should not be simply whether they are violent

       13        offenders but rather whether their possession is

       14        of such magnitude as to suggest that they may

       15        have linkage to the drug trade often originating

       16        in the Dominican Republic and you may have noted

       17        just in this past week's New York Times a front

       18        page story describing the extraordinary

       19        pervasiveness of the Dominican drug trade and
the

       20        epidemic of difficulties that it's brought
about.

       21                      Now, the problem with the existing

       22        law was exposed, I think by among other things a

       23        hearing of the Senate's ever watchful watch dog,

       24        the Senate Investigations Committee which had a

       25        hearing on the subject of heroin of new high







                                                            3214

        1        intensity and the problems it was engendering
and

        2        in the course of that hearing a very important

        3        member of the judiciary, Judge Leslie Crocker

        4        Snyder noted that many of the street sales were

        5        being handled by Dominican gangs and that the

        6        gangs are extremely violent and have murdered

        7        rival drug dealers, witnesses and innocent

        8        people.  The judge also said that even when they

        9        are arrested and prosecuted, some of the gang

       10        members were able to escape from the confines of

       11        the law to apply their elicit trade again and
she

       12        cited as an example the case of a drug dealer

       13        convicted of an A-1 felony whom she had
sentenced

       14        25 years to life in prison.

       15                      Under the recently enacted

       16        conditional parole law that I just described,

       17        this drug dealer could be considered for parole

       18        and deported to the Dominican Republic after

       19        serving only seven years of the sentence.  This

       20        particular drug dealer was convicted under

       21        another Class A-1 felony previously and had been

       22        deported to the Dominican Republic and he was

       23        recycled and came right back into society and

       24        managed to return to the country to run his

       25        cocaine and heroin rings once more.







                                                            3215

        1                      Now, very frankly, the law which

        2        had as its intention a crackdown on drug dealers

        3        had one in my judgment mistaken view and that
was

        4        that it was desirable in certain instances to

        5        create room in prison for the most serious

        6        offenders by allowing the deportation of those

        7        foreign people who were convicted of A-1 and A-2

        8        felonies.

        9                      The purpose of this bill is to

       10        close the loop hole which permitted those people

       11        to leave the country after serving only a

       12        fraction of their original sentences and to come

       13        back into the country and apply their heinous

       14        trades once again and, therefore, what the bill

       15        does and what it, I think very properly seals
off

       16        is the possibility of the return of these very

       17        serious drug felons, even though they were not

       18        involved in violent activity.

       19                      Specifically, under the bill,

       20        inmates convicted of Class A-1 drug offenses
will

       21        be ineligible for the program envisaged

       22        originally in the bill and in addition the

       23        district attorney will receive notification from

       24        the Division of Parole prior to consideration

       25        being given to any inmate convicted of a Class







                                                            3216

        1        A-2 felony drug offense.  If the district

        2        attorney objects to the inmate's potential
parole

        3        to the Immigration and Naturalization Service,

        4        the inmate shall be ineligible for such parole

        5        consideration prior to the completion of the

        6        minimum sentence.

        7                      So in a nutshell, Senator, what

        8        this bill does is to close off an inadvertent

        9        loop hole which arose as an attempt to get

       10        stricter and tougher and it does say that if you

       11        are an A-1 felon, you cannot be deported prior
to

       12        the completion of your sentence and if you're an

       13        A-2 felon, you can only be deported if the

       14        district attorney and the prosecuting officer

       15        approves such deportation.

       16                      We are confident that this will

       17        then permit us to preclude the return to the

       18        United States of those people who should not be

       19        here and who obviously are involved in very
heavy

       20        drug and dangerous drug trafficking.

       21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

       22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       23        Waldon.

       24                      SENATOR WALDON:  If the gentleman

       25        would yield to a question or two.







                                                            3217

        1                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes, I will.

        2        Certainly, Senator.

        3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        4        Goodman, do you yield to a question?  The
Senator

        5        yields.

        6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you very

        7        much, Mr. President.

        8                      Senator, let's continue down that

        9        memory lane that you orchestrated so well
moments

       10        ago.  How many of these so-called drug kingpins,

       11        if I may characterize them as such, have been

       12        released to date which precipitated this change

       13        in the law?  This just didn't happen

       14        happenstance.  What caused the Governor to do

       15        this?  What was the -

       16                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  It was my

       17        understanding, according of Katie Lapp, the

       18        Governor's Criminal Justice Services Director,

       19        it's my belief that there have been four such

       20        instances that are known to her of the number
who

       21        have been deported and there are four very

       22        serious cases involved.

       23                      Let me see if I can elaborate upon

       24        that slightly, if you'll give me just a moment
to

       25        consult a recent description of this.  There
were







                                                            3218

        1        1500 inmates found eligible for the program
since

        2        1995 through '97.  Parole officials approved

        3        1,218 for release and of those more than 900
have

        4        already been freed from prison.  Illegal

        5        immigrants make up at least 27 percent of the

        6        approximately 69,500 inmates in the state's

        7        overcrowded prison system.  Federal prosecutors

        8        in New York have indicated -- let me see if I go

        9        find -- yes.  I stick to that original number,

       10        Senator, as four.

       11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, I am not

       12        a contentious personality -- may I continue, Mr.

       13        President?

       14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Are you

       15        asking Senator Goodman to continue to yield?

       16                      SENATOR WALDON:  Yes, I am, Mr.

       17        President.

       18                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I will gladly

       19        yield to you, Senator, since it's well known to

       20        me that you are far from a contentious

       21        personality.

       22                      SENATOR WALDON:  I thank you for

       23        that kind assessment, Senator Goodman, but I
have

       24        information which tells me that the number is
not

       25        four but that the Governor's early release







                                                            3219

        1        program has resulted in 1,218 felons being

        2        released from prison for deportation, including
a

        3        number of major drug dealers whose release was

        4        opposed by the district attorneys who convicted

        5        them.  Furthermore, my information says -

        6                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Will you suffer

        7        an interruption briefly?

        8                      SENATOR WALDON:  Absolutely,

        9        Senator.

       10                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I believe

       11        there's a misunderstanding.  For just a moment,
I

       12        would like to clarify.  I read you that same

       13        number and indicated that that was the number,

       14        but I thought your question related to those who

       15        have returned to the country after being

       16        released.

       17                      SENATOR WALDON:  No, no.  I said

       18        so-called drug kingpins.

       19                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Oh, I beg your

       20        pardon.

       21                      SENATOR WALDON:  A major drug

       22        dealer, in my estimation, if I may continue, Mr.

       23        President, is a kingpin.

       24                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  As I've said to

       25        you earlier, 1218 is the correct number, which I







                                                            3220

        1        believe I presented to you before you raised it

        2        and pointed out and thinking that you were

        3        inquiring about those returning to the country,

        4        that that number was four.

        5                      SENATOR WALDON:  Okay.  If I may

        6        continue, Mr. President.  Will the gentlemen

        7        continue to yield?

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Will you

        9        continue to yield?  Senator Goodman, do you

       10        continue to yield?

       11                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes.  You have

       12        my full attention, Senator.

       13                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

       14        President.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Senator continues to yield.

       17                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you,

       18        Senator Goodman.

       19                      Senator Goodman, I'm further

       20        advised that of these 1218, more than 650 of
them

       21        had been convicted of serious drug offenses and

       22        that four have already been rearrested in New

       23        York City.  Is your information similar to that?

       24                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes.  And you

       25        are using the word "serious".  You're not







                                                            3221

        1        referring to violent offenses.  You are
referring

        2        to A-1 or A-2 offenses.

        3                      SENATOR WALDON:  Correct, sir.

        4                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  And if I may

        5        just be clear for the members of the chamber's

        6        fuller understanding, what we mean by A-1 and
A-2

        7        are offenses which involve specified weights of

        8        various restricted substances along the felony

        9        lines.

       10                      An A-1 drug felon, for example, is

       11        considered an A-1 felon if he is involved in the

       12        criminal sale of two ounces or more of narcotic

       13        drugs.

       14                      An A-2 felon is similarly viewed

       15        if he is involved in a half to two ounces of

       16        market drugs and there are a number of other

       17        things such as Methadone -- Methadone and other

       18        types of specified hallucinogens, stimulants and

       19        other substances, LSD, for example, included.

       20                      So "serious" is a matter of -- in

       21        the eyes of the beholder.  I regard A-1 and A-2

       22        as being serious.  I think that may be your

       23        point.

       24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       25        Waldon.







                                                            3222

        1                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you.  That

        2        was -- may I continue, Mr. President?  That was

        3        my point, Senator.

        4                      May I continue, if the gentleman

        5        would continue -

        6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        7        Goodman, do you continue to yield?

        8                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes, I will.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       10        Senator continues to yield.

       11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator Goodman,

       12        in your preparation for the debate today, can
you

       13        share with us the number of people who were

       14        released, these so-called serious drug offenders

       15        who were released over the objections of the

       16        specific or particular district attorney who had

       17        been responsible for convicting them?

       18                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I have no such

       19        information available to me at this time,

       20        Senator.

       21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would the

       22        gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President?

       23                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  May I just say

       24        I'm happy to yield ad seriatim as many times as

       25        the Senator would like until 6:00 o'clock







                                                            3223

        1        tonight.

        2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        3        Senator continues to yield.

        4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you,

        5        Senator.

        6                      Senator, have you or to your

        7        knowledge has the Governor conducted any
hearings

        8        regarding this proposal that you're submitting

        9        for our consideration or the facts which were
the

       10        genesis, the circumstances which were the
genesis

       11        of this proposal?

       12                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  No, but it may

       13        well be that he was privy to the annals of the

       14        Senate Investigations Committee which, as I said

       15        earlier, did examine this matter and received

       16        some very cogent testimony from Judge Crocker

       17        Snyder and other experts in the field.

       18                      SENATOR WALDON:  If I may

       19        continue, Mr. President.

       20                      Senator, why did we wait until the

       21        spring of '98 to deal with this issue -- when
you

       22        characterized it earlier in our meandering back

       23        through time as originating about 1995 or 1996,

       24        why did we wait until today to deal with this

       25        issue?







                                                            3224

        1                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Now, Senator, I

        2        regard myself as a friend and warm supporter of

        3        the Governor's, but I cannot make any claim to

        4        having access to the processes and the inner

        5        workings in his mind, and so I'm not able to

        6        answer that.

        7                      SENATOR WALDON:  May I continue,

        8        Mr. President?

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       10        Senator continues to yield.

       11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator, I

       12        appreciate your patience and I won't belabor
this

       13        point much longer, this discussion, this

       14        colloquy, if you will, but in your estimation,

       15        does any of this have anything to do with
certain

       16        drug kingpins who were released to go back to

       17        Israel or who may have been alleged to have used

       18        influence on the administration to obtain their

       19        release?  I believe I have their names
somewhere,

       20        but are you aware of that?

       21                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Senator, may I

       22        in the most serious vein say that I have no such

       23        information and I would be very, very grateful
to

       24        you if you would not, unless you are prepared to

       25        advance specific evidence to that effect, even







                                                            3225

        1        advert to it because, in my opinion, that was a

        2        smear directed at the Governor without any

        3        substance of any kind whatsoever, and I think it

        4        would be most beneath the dignity of this
chamber

        5        to indulge in such speculation.

        6                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President, I

        7        thank the Senator and I would like to speak on

        8        the bill.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       10        Waldon on the bill.

       11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator Goodman,

       12        I respectfully accept your advice regarding a

       13        potential smear in terms that one should never

       14        make accusations, though protected by this

       15        chamber or elsewhere against one of our elected

       16        officials.  That was not the purpose, but there

       17        was a news report which indicated that a number

       18        of people -- to my knowledge, a news report.  I

       19        have it right here in front of me -- were

       20        released and it was alleged that someone had

       21        prevailed upon governmental officials to
facility

       22        that.

       23                      If that is not true, I am the

       24        first to acknowledge.  If someone can show me

       25        that it had no bearing in truth or fact, I would







                                                            3226

        1        be the first to say I'm glad that such is the

        2        case.  However, it was an allegation and I
shared

        3        it with you for purposes of our discussion.

        4                      I am not going to vote against

        5        this bill.  I think any time that we are dealing

        6        with people who are predators, whether it be in

        7        terms of a violent act of a physical nature,

        8        attacking someone's body or their life, I think

        9        those are very bad people.

       10                      I think equally bad are people who

       11        sell death to our children and those who are the

       12        purveyors of cocaine, "crack" cocaine, heroin
and

       13        a whole host of other drugs are such predators.

       14                      However, I sincerely hope that in

       15        our addressing this issue today, we will
remember

       16        that there's a whole group of other people who

       17        are incarcerated as a result of the Rockefeller

       18        Drug Law and that they are doing hard time and

       19        that those people who were arrested under the

       20        Rockefeller Drug Law, to my knowledge, from the

       21        information I received over the years, did not

       22        have the kind of inclination as these we are

       23        talking about today in terms of the weight --
and

       24        I'm talking about the weight of the drugs -- or

       25        the intensity of the violence that was attached







                                                            3227

        1        to their drug trafficking.

        2                      I think if we're going to address

        3        this issue and make sure that these persons who

        4        are predators of drugs are taken care of in this

        5        manner, we should also be responsible enough to

        6        address the fact that those incarcerated still

        7        under the Rockefeller Drug Law, in my opinion,

        8        are being overly punished and held far too long.

        9                      If we need space in our prison, it

       10        seems to me that we ought to do the right thing

       11        and we ought to retrofit those laws because if
we

       12        were to do so, those people who have served far

       13        beyond what would be an acceptable, in my

       14        opinion, penalty for the crime committed would

       15        leave tomorrow from the prisons and we would
have

       16        all the space that we need for those who are the

       17        violent predators that you're speaking to in
what

       18        you proposed to us today, Senator Goodman.

       19                      I will support your measure.  I

       20        sincerely hope that someone in this chamber will

       21        hear with a sensitive ear what I have shared
with

       22        the Rockefeller Drug Law.

       23                      And I thank you and I thank you,

       24        Mr. President.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                            3228

        1        Dollinger.

        2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Thank you, Mr.

        3        President.

        4                      Will Senator Goodman yield to a

        5        couple of questions?

        6                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I will, Senator.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        8        Senator yields.

        9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Senator, I -

       10        the first thing I want to make sure I understand

       11        is this is part of the Sentencing Reform Act of

       12        1995, is that correct?

       13                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  That's correct.

       14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Do you know

       15        how long the Senate deliberated on that bill
back

       16        in 1995?

       17                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I -- I can tell

       18        you the date on which it was adopted.  It was in

       19        April on that year, and I believe it was on the

       20        -- I'll tell you in just a moment exactly when

       21        it is, not that it's relevant to your question,

       22        but it happened to have been on April the 6th of

       23        that year, I believe.  It was not a multiple of

       24        days.  Therefore, I can only assume that the

       25        deliberations confined themselves to one working







                                                            3229

        1        day.

        2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  In fact, that

        3        was the first day the bill had been printed.

        4        Actually it was the 2nd of June -

        5                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Excuse me.  It

        6        was on June -- may I correct myself.  I see that

        7        it was on June 10th, 1995.  The reference to

        8        April refers to another matter, and I apologize.

        9                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Is June 10th,

       10        Senator Goodman, the day that the bill was

       11        actually signed by Governor Pataki?

       12                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  It was the date

       13        that it was enacted.

       14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  So it was

       15        actually -- that was the date it was actually

       16        signed and enacted into law with his signature.

       17                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Yes.  That's my

       18        understanding.

       19                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Do you know

       20        what day it was introduced in the Senate?

       21                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I do not.

       22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Do you know

       23        what day it passed the Senate?

       24                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I do not.

       25                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.  Just







                                                            3230

        1        for the record, Senator -- and this relates -

        2        I'll tie this back in a second.  This bill was

        3        introduced on June 2nd and it was referred to
the

        4        Finance Committee on June 2nd.  It was reported

        5        and committed to the Rules Committee on June

        6        2nd.  It was ordered to third reading on the

        7        calendar on June 2nd.  It was given a message of

        8        necessity on June 2nd and it passed the Senate
on

        9        June 2nd.  We deliberated for all of, oh, what,

       10        20 minutes, 15 minutes, 10 minutes?  Pick a time

       11        that on June 2nd that we actually sat down and

       12        worked on this bill.

       13                      The reason why I ask that

       14        question, Senator Goodman, is would you describe

       15        this bill as a mistake, this provision as a

       16        mistake?

       17                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  Would I describe

       18        the provision that relates to the A-1 and A-2

       19        felons as a mistake?

       20                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  That allows

       21        the deportation of felons who are convicted of

       22        drug offenses, would you describe that as a

       23        mistake?

       24                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I think the best

       25        testimony on that comes from the Governor's own







                                                            3231

        1        drug enforcement top official who, if I may
quote

        2        her, described it in the following terms.  It
was

        3        described in an article on April 10th, 1998 in

        4        the New York Times as having reservations about

        5        the program.

        6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        7                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  And that she

        8        suggested that its rules were too lax and, as

        9        I've explained to you, the Senate's ever
watchful

       10        watch dog committee, the Senate Investigations

       11        Committee, held a hearing in which it received

       12        testimony that was eloquent in indicating that

       13        the A-1 and A-2 felons were being recycled back

       14        into our society after leaving the country on a

       15        theory that presumably opened up more prison

       16        space but, in fact, caused the return of these

       17        people on a premature and dangerous basis.

       18                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Right.  In

       19        fact -- again through you, Mr. President.  In

       20        fact, you said earlier in response to Senator

       21        Waldon's questions that four felons who had been

       22        deported had come back to the United States and

       23        had been rearrested, isn't that correct?

       24                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  I think I

       25        understand the direction in which you're
heading,







                                                            3232

        1        Senator, and I don't know how long you propose
to

        2        attenuate the woodshed that you're attempting to

        3        take certain officials on the second floor into,

        4        but I suppose you cough it up quickly.  Let's

        5        have it out and we don't have to use -

        6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I'll put it

        7        right out on the table.  Wasn't this a mistake,

        8        Senator Goodman, to allow convicted felons, who

        9        happened to be foreign nationals, to go to
prison

       10        for a minimal amount of time and then get

       11        deported back to their own country only so that

       12        they could come back and prey on our streets

       13        again?  Wouldn't you classify that as not only a

       14        mistake but a colossal mistake?

       15                      SENATOR GOODMAN:  If we were all

       16        gifted with a crystal ball into which we could

       17        gaze and perceive the consequences of all our

       18        actions, what a better world this would be,

       19        Senator.

       20                      The fact is that this was

       21        conceived with a very admirable purpose which
was

       22        to make room for the more serious felons in our

       23        society to be incarcerated by releasing those

       24        perceived to be less serious felons.  In doing

       25        that, it was designated that those who had not







                                                            3233

        1        been involved in violent drug offenses but less

        2        serious felons, but with the gift of 20/20

        3        hindsight, it was perceived by various people

        4        whom I've quoted this afternoon as having been

        5        something which should not have been allowed to

        6        happen and, therefore, the Governor himself has

        7        strongly recommended in this program bill the

        8        sealing up of this error so that people could
not

        9        return to society.  In my opinion, that

       10        represents enlightened leadership to acknowledge

       11        when a legislative program has had unintended

       12        consequences that it needs to be repaired and

       13        this is repair work if you choose to call it

       14        that.

       15                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr. President,

       16        Senator Goodman is always eloquent to the point.

       17        He provides the justification that I'm sure the

       18        second floor would offer if that state Senator

       19        who sat across the way was sitting here today

       20        would have offered.  I commend Senator Goodman

       21        for his eloquence in making that statement.

       22                      I'd just point out to everybody in

       23        the chamber that this is an idea that we tried.

       24        It has turned out, to my judgment, to be a

       25        colossal mistake, putting aside for a moment the







                                                            3234

        1        question of whether it can be manipulated by

        2        outside forces but that's not what's at issue

        3        here, but the notion that somehow we create a

        4        two-tiered system of justice -- we get an

        5        American who lives in New York State arrested

        6        with 12 pounds of cocaine and we get a foreign

        7        national arrested with 12 pounds of cocaine and

        8        we want to be tough on crime.  We're real tough

        9        on our own and we're real lenient on our
imported

       10        friends.

       11                      So what we've done is we've

       12        basically put a sign out on the marketplace that

       13        says, if you want to do a little time for drug

       14        dealing, come to New York State and commit a

       15        serious drug offense and what we'll do is we'll

       16        simply give you a plane ticket back to your

       17        homeland.  We won't punish you as severely as we

       18        punish our own.

       19                      The reason, Senator Goodman, why I

       20        mentioned the reference to how long we

       21        deliberated on this bill is that, yes, indeed, I

       22        voted for this bill.  We never considered the

       23        issue of the deportation of felons.  We never

       24        considered it in detail.

       25                      As long as we continue to do







                                                            3235

        1        complicated bills like the Sentencing Reform Act

        2        of 1995 and we did it without public hearings in

        3        1995 -- which is what we should have done back

        4        then, if we had looked at this issue in greater

        5        detail at the time, we might have had a
different

        6        result and we might have spared ourselves the

        7        newspaper headlines that somehow suggest

        8        anybody's letting drug kingpins out.

        9                      I agree with this bill, Senator

       10        Goodman.  I'm going to vote for it, but the

       11        notion that we've ever seen a headline in this

       12        state that says we're letting the worst of the

       13        worst, the real merchants, the guys who are

       14        making the big money, that we're letting them go

       15        back to their land of origin, touch base there

       16        and then take a plane ticket back and re-enter

       17        this country illegally so they can make a
fortune

       18        while driving our children to drugs and our
costs

       19        for drug treatment to the ceiling, that just

       20        doesn't make good public policy.

       21                      I wish we had looked at this in

       22        greater detail back then.  I'll leave to another

       23        day the issue of who may be responsible for
that,

       24        but I'm going to support this bill.  I think
it's

       25        the right thing to do.







                                                            3236

        1                      I would only close the loop hole

        2        completely, Senator.  I would simply say that we

        3        put out a message in the international

        4        marketplace that is as follows:  Whether you're

        5        charged with an A-1 offense, an A-2 offense or

        6        any offense, we will treat you in New York the

        7        same way we treat our own.  If we harshly punish

        8        our own who deal in drugs, we'll treat you no

        9        matter whether you come from Korea, Israel,

       10        Nigeria, any place on the planet, we're going to

       11        treat you the same way we treat our own.  That

       12        would be tough on crime for everyone and it
would

       13        put real teeth into the notion that you can't

       14        come to New York State and deal drugs.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Secretary will read the last section.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

       18        act shall take effect immediately.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       20        roll.

       21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       24        is passed.

       25                      The Secretary will continue to







                                                            3237

        1        read the -- Senator Montgomery, why do you rise?

        2                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Mr.

        3        President, I would like unanimous consent to be

        4        recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 413.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        6        objection.

        7                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Thank you.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing no

        9        objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in

       10        the negative on Calendar Number 413.

       11                      The Secretary will continue to

       12        read the controversial calendar.

       13                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       14        675, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2248,
an

       15        act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

       16        prohibiting parole.

       17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Explanation.

       18                      SENATOR WALDON:  Explanation,

       19        please.

       20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       21        Marcellino, an explanation has been asked by two

       22        Senators, Senator -- excuse me -- Senator

       23        Paterson, also Senator Waldon, on Calendar
Number

       24        675.

       25                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Thank you,







                                                            3238

        1        Mr. President.

        2                      I'm honored to rise on the

        3        birthday of my colleague, Senator Balboni, and
to

        4        give an explanation of this very important bill.

        5                      Quite succinctly, this bill seeks

        6        to amend the Penal Law to prohibit parole for

        7        inmates convicted of -- or those persons

        8        convicted of homicide or sexual offenses.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       10        Waldon.

       11                      SENATOR WALDON:  Thank you, Mr.

       12        President.

       13                      Would the gentleman yield to a

       14        question or two?

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       16        Marcellino, do you yield?

       17                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

       18        President.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       20        Senator yields.

       21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator

       22        Marcellino, is there ever a time under your

       23        proposal where extenuating circumstances or an

       24        extenuating circumstance would allow a variance

       25        from no parole ever, ever to the possibility of







                                                            3239

        1        parole at the discretion of the parole

        2        commission, or is it never, never?

        3                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

        4        President, through you.  It's my belief that

        5        people who are convicted of violent crimes as

        6        defined by the Penal Law in this case, which

        7        would include criminally negligent homicide,

        8        vehicular manslaughter first and second degrees,

        9        manslaughter first and second degrees, murder

       10        first and second degrees, abortion first and

       11        second degrees, self-abortion first and second

       12        degrees; in the sexual offenses, sexual

       13        misconduct, rape first, second and third
degrees,

       14        consensual sodomy, sodomy first, second and
third

       15        degrees and sexual abuse first, second and third

       16        degree, aggravated sexual abuse first and second

       17        degree and, of course, sexual conduct against a

       18        child first and second degree and the answer is

       19        never, never, never.  Leave them there.

       20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       21        Waldon.

       22                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would the

       23        gentleman yield to another question?

       24                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, sir.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                            3240

        1        Senator continues to yield.

        2                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator

        3        Marcellino, under Jenna's Law, proposal -- it's

        4        not law yet, so I apologize for that

        5        mischaracterization.  Under the proposal in

        6        regard to Jenna's Law, the Governor feels that
we

        7        could allow people to be on parole after they've

        8        served their six-sevenths of the time allocated

        9        that they must serve under that law.  That's a

       10        very specific bill, a very important bill.  We

       11        will consider it in the not too distant future,
I

       12        hope.  It is one which will address a whole host

       13        of issues which require addressing.

       14                      Under that bill proposed -- I

       15        should say bill -- we will have parole.  That

       16        doesn't cause any sobering thought for yourself

       17        in regard to the proposal that you're bringing

       18        before us today?

       19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  No.  I think

       20        Governor Pataki has been a fine Governor, has
led

       21        this state well.  Hopefully will be re-elected

       22        come this November and we will all join him in

       23        that re-election and we'll support him as usual.

       24                      In this case, this bill stands on

       25        its own merits, and I believe that for the
crimes







                                                            3241

        1        defined in the law as this bill mentions, that

        2        those who are involved in this kind of crime do

        3        not deserve parole.  They should, in fact, serve

        4        their full sentence.  They are the most

        5        repetitive type of criminal.  They are the ones

        6        who keep coming back and repeat and repeat and

        7        re-repeat, in other words, recidivists of the

        8        highest order.  Our society has been too long -

        9        too long at risk with these predators.  They do

       10        not belong on our streets.  They have proven

       11        themselves many times to be the kind of people,

       12        the kind of individuals who don't deserve

       13        parole.  They deserve to be put away and to
serve

       14        their time.

       15                      SENATOR WALDON:  Mr. President.

       16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       17        Waldon.

       18                      SENATOR WALDON:  Let me thank

       19        Senator Marcellino and let me apologize -- and
on

       20        the bill, Mr. President.

       21                      Thank you, Senator.

       22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       23        Waldon on the will.

       24                      SENATOR WALDON:  I made a

       25        misstatement.  It's post-release supervision







                                                            3242

        1        under Jenna's Law and not parole.  So I
apologize

        2        for that, but the gist of what I was attempting

        3        to get out was the same.

        4                      Senator Marcellino, I'm sure that

        5        you really believe what you propose here today.

        6        I have not the slightest doubt that you totally

        7        support this concept and that this is something

        8        which you are very certain about in terms of its

        9        importance and the philosophy of it, but I must

       10        respectfully disagree with you.

       11                      I do not believe there is any

       12        proposal that we should make or any human

       13        experience that is always forever, never, ever
an

       14        opportunity for a deviation from that proposal.

       15                      I think that when someone has

       16        committed even the violent crimes that you've

       17        talked about, somewhere in the universe in the

       18        future, someone will have a mitigating

       19        circumstance or a reason for the judge and the

       20        jury to look at that person differently than all

       21        the others who precede before them under similar

       22        circumstances, and I just think we have to leave

       23        a safety valve for that person, for that

       24        situation to be treated differently, and for
that

       25        reason I cannot support your proposal.







                                                            3243

        1                      I encourage my colleagues to

        2        consider that and to think that there is an

        3        exception to every rule and would join me in

        4        voting no on this issue.

        5                      Thank you very much, Mr.

        6        President.  Thank you, Senator Marcellino.

        7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        8        Secretary will read the last section.

        9                      Senator Paterson, why do you

       10        rise?

       11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

       12        if the sponsor would yield for a question.

       13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       14        Marcellino, do you yield to a question from

       15        Senator Paterson?

       16                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Yes, Mr.

       17        President.  I do.

       18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       19        Senator yields.

       20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

       21        Senator Marcellino.

       22                      Senator, how does this bill

       23        differ, if it does, from Jenna's Law that we

       24        passed?

       25                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Senator, I







                                                            3244

        1        quite frankly could not give you that answer in

        2        detail.  I do not have the expertise to do that.

        3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        4        President.

        5                      If the sponsor would yield.  The

        6        reason I'm asking the question is I'm just a

        7        little concerned that I don't see in this -- in

        8        this particular bill any provision for

        9        supervision or any interaction between the

       10        released inmate and any kind of authority after

       11        the time that the sentence has elapsed, and so

       12        while we might make sentences longer for
felonies

       13        and obviously rather heinous crimes, I'm

       14        wondering if Senator Marcellino would comment on

       15        what should be the relationship after the

       16        sentence is served even if the sentence is

       17        longer?  Should there be any interaction with
any

       18        kind of authority?

       19                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  Mr.

       20        President, through you, it is not my

       21        understanding that this bill extends a specific

       22        sentence.  It simply says that if you are

       23        convicted of a -- one of the violent crimes

       24        listed in the bill, that you are not able to get

       25        parole.  You will not be granted parole.  It







                                                            3245

        1        doesn't, in effect, lengthen the period of time

        2        you are sentenced.  I understand the sentences
in

        3        some cases allow for parole after a period of

        4        time, but the sentence has a finite limit to it,

        5        in which that case that person who's convicted
of

        6        murder in the first degree, that is,
premeditated

        7        murder, will serve whatever time frame is given

        8        to them without the possibility of parole.  I

        9        have no problem with that, Senator.  I have

       10        absolutely no problem with that.

       11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       12        Paterson.

       13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr. President,

       14        I understand what the prescription of the

       15        sentence is and that the individual that was

       16        sentenced would serve the full length of the

       17        sentence.  I understand that the bill does that,

       18        but there are really two applications of parole.

       19                      One is to allow for a shortened

       20        sentence, and I think in the discussion between

       21        Senator Waldon and Senator Marcellino, Senator

       22        Marcellino made very clear why he wants the

       23        sentence served.  I don't agree with it, but
what

       24        I'm relaying here is the other, the kind of part

       25        of the bifurcated parole system which is in some







                                                            3246

        1        way to recognize that just because someone has

        2        served the length of their sentence, it does not

        3        mean necessarily that they are rehabilitated
and,

        4        therefore, the state through the parole system

        5        eschews the states really maintains the option
of

        6        making the individual who's out on parole
respond

        7        with parole officers or counseling or some kind

        8        of interaction with some authority to get an
idea

        9        as to what this individual may be doing when
they

       10        get out.  These prisoners serve long sentences.

       11        They are sometimes estranged from their

       12        families.  They don't have any roots in the

       13        community.  They can't exactly just get out and

       14        walk right into a meaningful job and so in those

       15        cases where there is recidivism, what the parole

       16        system has traditionally accomplished is to in a

       17        sense sound an alarm to law enforcement that
this

       18        individual may well be back at whatever activity

       19        got them in prison in the first place or some

       20        other anti-social activity.

       21                      So my question to Senator

       22        Marcellino is, does this bill prescribe any

       23        supervision at the end of the sentence that's

       24        served?

       25                      SENATOR MARCELLINO:  I don't







                                                            3247

        1        believe in prescribes any supervision at the end

        2        of the sentence, nor does it deny them any

        3        supervision at the end of the sentence, to my

        4        knowledge.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        6        Paterson.

        7                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you, Mr.

        8        President.

        9                      On the bill.

       10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       11        Paterson on the bill.

       12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Based on

       13        Senator Marcellino's answer, I really have a

       14        strong difficulty voting for this bill and

       15        interestingly enough it is on the issue of that

       16        second situation where what the parole system

       17        really was originally designed to do was to make

       18        the sentence that is actually issued longer than

       19        the time that would generally be served.  In

       20        other words, the prescribed sentence would

       21        actually be longer than the time we want the

       22        person to be incarcerated as a society so that
as

       23        a society by giving back some of that time we
now

       24        maintain the option of supervision over the

       25        released person.







                                                            3248

        1                      Now, this piece of legislation may

        2        not necessarily deny supervision at the end of

        3        the sentence but once you come to the end of the

        4        sentence, whatever length it is, that's the end

        5        of the sentence.  That's the end of the time

        6        period that society can maintain some kind of

        7        dominion over the activities of the inmate but

        8        now that that time is served, that inmate is
free

        9        to go out and who knows where they are.

       10                      So what I'm just saying is if you

       11        really take a good look at what the sentencing

       12        guidelines are and what the sentencing system
was

       13        designed to do, the way to perhaps maintain

       14        individuals for a longer period of time if we

       15        feel that their crimes are that serious is to

       16        just lengthen the sentence.

       17                      As long as we are letting the

       18        individual out at the end of the sentence
without

       19        supervision, I would suspect that we may be

       20        making the kind of mistake that we made on June

       21        2nd, 1995, what Senator Dollinger referred to

       22        when the Senate voted to pass the Governor's -

       23        the Governor's Sentencing Reform Act which
really

       24        allowed individuals, while we remove them from a

       25        certain area, we really put them in the position







                                                            3249

        1        to be unsupervised, in many respects unguided.

        2                      And so what I think is happening

        3        here is at the end of the sentence, we're going

        4        to look at a situation where people just walk
out

        5        of prison and presumably not out to any

        6        meaningful activity but right back out onto the

        7        streets.

        8                      What I would have -- would

        9        recommend is that we still maintain some margin,

       10        even if Senator Marcellino would like to shorten

       11        that margin, some margin where the state does
not

       12        eschew its opportunity to maintain some control

       13        in these types of situations or we may be right

       14        back here in a couple of years unfortunately

       15        looking at the situations where those who didn't

       16        have any kind of meaningful exit or exit

       17        relationship with a parole authority may have

       18        gone right back out and committed the same
crimes

       19        for which they were in prison in the first
place.

       20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       21        Montgomery.

       22                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

       23        President.  Just briefly on the bill.

       24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       25        Montgomery on the bill.







                                                            3250

        1                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  I want to

        2        remind my colleagues that we have a situation

        3        here that is specifically related to women in

        4        prison and it is that many of those women who
are

        5        incarcerated for serious crimes, even murder,

        6        have committed that -- even though it's a most

        7        heinous crime and we certainly cannot agree with

        8        it, most of them have committed that crime in

        9        relationship to a very long and extensive

       10        experience with domestic violence and it is very

       11        often their response as a means of protecting

       12        themselves or in the least resolving a situation

       13        that they have found untenable.

       14                      So these are crimes of passion,

       15        certainly.  Many of them are serving very long

       16        sentences and certainly it is never anticipated

       17        that they will commit a crime like that again.

       18        So that what we have is -- with this
legislation,

       19        we would, in fact, be making it absolutely

       20        impossible for there to be any kind of mediated

       21        time spent in prison based on an opportunity for

       22        parole.

       23                      So I am going to oppose this

       24        concept because I think it would -- particularly

       25        and specifically in the instance where women are







                                                            3251

        1        involved and we now have -- women make up the

        2        fastest growing new inmate population in our

        3        state and in the nation and we also know that

        4        domestic violence has become a very major
problem

        5        as it relates to the murder of women but

        6        certainly as it also relates to the reason why

        7        many women find themselves in prison and this

        8        does not give us any opportunity to work with

        9        those women, to provide an opportunity for us to

       10        have them released early.  Many of them will

       11        never see their children grow up.  When they
come

       12        out, their children will be adults, if they go
in

       13        when the children are young and there's no way -

       14        there's no way to mitigate that -- that kind of

       15        sentence.

       16                      So, Senator Marcellino, I

       17        understand what you -- what your intentions are,

       18        but I feel that I absolutely must stand up for

       19        the possibility of the state having some

       20        mitigating action available to it as it relates

       21        to people who really will definitely not by any

       22        stretch of the imagination commit another crime

       23        and who can be rehabilitated and certainly we

       24        would want them to re-enter society perhaps

       25        without necessarily spending many, many years







                                                            3252

        1        without having the option of parole.

        2                      So I'm going to oppose the bill.

        3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        4        Secretary will read the last section.

        5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.  This

        6        act shall take effect on the first day of

        7        September.

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

        9        roll.

       10                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record the

       12        negatives and announce the results.

       13                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded in

       14        the negative on Calendar Number 765 are Senators

       15        Leichter, Montgomery and Paterson.  Ayes 57,
nays

       16        -- also Senator Waldon.  Ayes 56, nays 4.

       17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

       18        is passed.

       19                      Senator Santiago, why do you

       20        rise?

       21                      SENATOR SANTIAGO:  I request

       22        unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative

       23        on Calendar Number 815, please.

       24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

       25        objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Santiago







                                                            3253

        1        will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

        2        Number 815.

        3                      The Secretary will continue to

        4        read the controversial calendar.

        5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        6        679, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5182, an

        7        act to repeal Subdivision 9 of Section 500 (b)
of

        8        the Correction Law.

        9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       10        Nozzolio, an explanation of Calendar Number 679

       11        has been requested by Senator Waldon.

       12                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Thank you, Mr.

       13        President.

       14                      This measure repeals the

       15        requirement that local correctional facilities

       16        submit duplicative and unnecessary reports

       17        regarding the housing of prisoners every four

       18        months to the state Commission of Corrections.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       20        Waldon.

       21                      SENATOR WALDON:  Would the

       22        gentleman yield to a question or two?

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       24        Nozzolio, do you yield to a question?

       25                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Yes, Mr.







                                                            3254

        1        President.

        2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        3        Senator yields.

        4                      SENATOR WALDON:  Senator -- thank

        5        you, Mr. President.

        6                      Senator, I'm just trying to make

        7        sure I'm on the same page as you on this.  The

        8        reports that we're talking about in this
proposal

        9        that will no longer be required, they don't
speak

       10        to incidents, correct?  They're just talking to

       11        the number of prisoners in a facility which is
an

       12        automatic situation done by computers?

       13                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  That's correct,

       14        Mr. President.

       15                      SENATOR WALDON:  So the quarterly

       16        reports -- if I may continue, Mr. President.  Is

       17        it true then that the quarterly reports would

       18        just be a more comprehensive assimilation of the

       19        material that's been received in the previous

       20        four months?

       21                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  For example -

       22                      SENATOR WALDON:  Or three months.

       23                      SENATOR NOZZOLIO:  Mr. President,

       24        to answer Senator Waldon's question, local

       25        correctional facilities currently report







                                                            3255

        1        population to the Commission, as Senator Waldon

        2        said, on a daily basis and then the Commission's

        3        daily population system -- population reporting

        4        system is on-line with all facilities, so that -

        5        and then incidents are reported to the
Commission

        6        within 24 hours.  So it's not just as Senator

        7        Waldon asked, daily population figures but also

        8        incident reports.  It must be filed within a

        9        24-hour period.  That's the type of information

       10        that's there.  To establish another quarterly

       11        report is just duplicative of that information

       12        that's already on-line.

       13                      SENATOR WALDON:  All right.  Thank

       14        you, Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        Secretary will read the last section.

       17                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.  This

       18        act shall take effect immediately.

       19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call the

       20        roll.

       21                      (The Secretary called the roll.)

       22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record the

       23        negatives.  Announce the results.

       24                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59, nays 1.

       25        Senator Montgomery recorded in the -- also







                                                            3256

        1        Senator Leichter.  Ayes 58, nays 2.

        2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The bill

        3        is passed.

        4                      Senator Fuschillo, that completes

        5        the reading of the controversial calendar.

        6                      SENATOR FUSCHILLO:  Mr. President,

        7        is there any housekeeping at the desk?

        8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Yes, there

        9        is.  We'll return to the order of motions and

       10        resolutions.

       11                      The Chair recognizes Senator

       12        Farley.

       13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Thank you, Mr.

       14        President.

       15                      Would you please place a sponsor's

       16        star on my bill, S.3755-A, Calendar Number 501

       17        and also, Mr. President, on behalf of Senator

       18        Saland, I wish to call up his bill, 5961, which

       19        was recalled from the Assembly which is now at

       20        the desk.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       22        Secretary will read.

       23                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

       24        390, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5961, an
act

       25        to authorize the payment.







                                                            3257

        1                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now move to

        2        reconsider the vote by which this passed.

        3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The motion

        4        is to reconsider the vote by which the bill pass

        5        the house.

        6                      The Secretary will call the roll

        7        on reconsideration.

        8                      (The Secretary called the roll on

        9        reconsideration.)

       10                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 60.

       11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

       12        Farley.

       13                      SENATOR FARLEY:  I now offer the

       14        following amendments.

       15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       16        amendments are received and adopted.

       17                      Senator Farley.

       18                      SENATOR FARLEY:  On behalf of

       19        Senator Skelos, I wish to offer the following

       20        amendments on page 24, Calendar 568, to Senate

       21        Print 4115, and I ask that that bill retain its

       22        place on the Third Reading Calendar.

       23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

       24        amendments to Calendar Number 568 are received

       25        and adopted.  The bill will retain its place on







                                                            3258

        1        the Third Reading Calendar.

        2                      Senator Fuschillo.

        3                      SENATOR FUSCHILLO:  Mr. President,

        4        the Chair recognizes Senator Volker.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        6        Volker.

        7                      SENATOR VOLKER:  Mr. President,

        8        tomorrow morning at 8:00 o'clock the annual

        9        legislative memorial service for deceased
members

       10        of the Legislature of both the Senate and the

       11        Assembly will be held at the usual place at St.

       12        Mary's Church and afterwards we will have the

       13        usual breakfast at the Albany Room.  Since we
had

       14        two deceased members of this body in the last

       15        year who were active members, we have also, in

       16        fact, asked members of the family if they so

       17        desire to be here and we expect at least one of

       18        the members of the family to be here.  I just

       19        wanted to tell everybody that.  So 8:00 o'clock

       20        tomorrow at St. Mary's.  We're going to have the

       21        same services we've had in the past, the

       22        interfaith service.  So we would like to have as

       23        many members there as possible.

       24                      Thank you.

       25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Thank you







                                                            3259

        1        for that announcement, Senator Volker.

        2                      Senator Fuschillo, did you wish

        3        the Chair to make the announcement?

        4                      SENATOR FUSCHILLO:  Yes, I do.

        5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Okay.  For

        6        the benefit of the members, this is a momentous

        7        day in all of our lives because one of our

        8        members, one of the new members to the chamber,

        9        Senator Michael Balboni, is celebrating his 39th

       10        birthday and, Senator, we welcome you.  Once

       11        again, we congratulate you on your birthday and

       12        we are most pleased that you took this occasion

       13        to invite your lovely wife Stephanie to the

       14        chamber.

       15                      So welcome Stephanie and happy

       16        birthday, Senator.  (Applause)

       17                      Senator Fuschillo.

       18                      SENATOR FUSCHILLO:  There being no

       19        further business, I move we adjourn until

       20        Wednesday, May 13th, at 11:00 a.m.

       21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

       22        objection, the Senate stands adjourned until

       23        tomorrow, Wednesday, May 13th, at 11:00 a.m.

       24                      (Whereupon, at 5:00 p.m., the

       25        Senate adjourned.)