Regular Session - May 19, 1998
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 May 19, 1998
11 3:10 p.m.
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14 REGULAR SESSION
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18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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3426
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 find their places, staff to find their
5 places. Ask everybody in the chamber to rise
6 and join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance
7 to the Flag, and please remain standing for
8 the invocation.
9 (The assemblage repeated the
10 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
11 We're very pleased to be joined
12 by the Reverend Monsignor Michael J. Cantley
13 of St. Anastasia Church, of Douglaston, New
14 York, to deliver the invocation.
15 REVEREND CANTLEY: Mr.
16 President, Senators, guests: We place our
17 selves in this hall of the Legislature before
18 the Eternal God. In prayer, we do not inform
19 You of our needs. You already know what we
20 need before we even ask. Rather what we do is
21 to place ourselves in Your presence and, alone
22 with our consciences, hearts exposed to Your
23 clear sight, we re-examine our obligations and
24 tremble at the responsibility we must justify
25 before You each night before we go to sleep,
3427
1 and will have to justify at the very end of
2 our lives, our eternal destiny, the end for
3 which we were created.
4 "Our liberties do not come
5 from charters, for these are only the
6 declarations of pre-existing rights. They do
7 not depend on parchments or seals; but come
8 from the King of kings and the Lord of all the
9 earth." Our Founding Fathers before me knew
10 these words and asserted the claims of all
11 citizens of our country and state to freedom
12 and the development of the human potential
13 based on the assertion of principles that they
14 termed "self-evident" because they were and
15 are truths about the human person derived from
16 the knowledge of human nature, built into it
17 by "nature's God".
18 Both charters of legal
19 existence, the Constitution of the United
20 States and that of our state of New York, had
21 the boldness to bring into existence not
22 merely a territory of jurisdictional identity,
23 but more an experiment in human governance
24 unknown until its time, and since then
25 emulated throughout all of the world. George
3428
1 Washington called it an experience -- an
2 "experiment in ordered liberty." It is an
3 experiment in which every man and woman,
4 without prejudice for race, religion or social
5 standing could pursue happiness, serve the
6 common good and enjoy the freedom to realize
7 every legitimate inborn talent limited not by
8 any force of government but only by the limits
9 one placed on the self.
10 The continuing success of our
11 American democracy as we live it in the state
12 of New York depends on each new generation,
13 native-born and immigrant, making its own the
14 moral truths and the ideals on which the
15 country and the state were founded. The
16 commitment to build a society free, just and
17 caring begins anew with each opening of this
18 Legislature, each bill discussed, each signing
19 into law, each interaction of the branches
20 that constitute the efficiency of government.
21 Many in this Legislature will carry the state
22 into the new millenium. It's an awful and
23 awesome responsibility to end that era and
24 begin another. "No expression of today's
25 commitment to liberty and justice for all can
3429
1 be made that could be more basic than the
2 protection afforded to those in society who
3 are most vulnerable -- the unborn or the sick
4 and the old. The credibility of our state
5 will depend more and more on its promotion of
6 a genuine culture of life and on a renewed
7 commitment to building a society in which the
8 weakest and the most vulnerable are welcomed
9 and protected."
10 Eternal God, with thankfulness
11 that our state Senate in New York has
12 established a record of concern for the most
13 vulnerable, we ask the courage and the insight
14 that its record in the future be even more
15 glorious, that all of the country and all of
16 the world may look to it as a paladin willing
17 and successful in addressing all need not from
18 a position of expediency, but from the
19 principles that make for greatness. Amen.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading
21 of the Journal.
22 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
23 Monday, May 18th. The Senate met pursuant to
24 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, May 17th,
25 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
3430
1 adjourned.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
3 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
4 read.
5 Presentation of petitions.
6 Messages from the Assembly.
7 Messages from the Governor.
8 Reports of standing
9 committees. The Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
11 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers up the
12 following nomination: As a judge of the Court
13 of Claims, Ferris D. Lebous.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Chair recognizes Senator Lack, on the
16 nomination.
17 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 I rise to move the nomination
20 and I rarely ever correct -
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President
22 -- excuse me, Senator Lack. If we could just
23 have some order in the Senate chamber,
24 please.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3431
1 acting Majority Leader raises a very good
2 point. Would the members please take their
3 seats, staff their position.
4 Senator Lack.
5 SENATOR LACK: Well, thank you,
6 Mr. President. I rarely would ever correct,
7 because we have a Senator Libous but we're
8 standing up to -- I'm standing up to move the
9 nomination of one Ferris D. Lebous, of Vestal,
10 as a judge of the Court of Claims.
11 I do so notwithstanding the
12 fact that coming down from Cornell one day, I
13 got a speeding ticket in Vestal, but I'll
14 still stand up -
15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
16 Mr. President. A point of high personal
17 privilege.
18 I got a speeding ticket coming
19 down from Cornell, in Vestal.
20 SENATOR LACK: In Vestal too?
21 SENATOR GOLD: In Vestal, New
22 York.
23 SENATOR LACK: Well, Mr.
24 President, since it seems to be bipartisan
25 both sides of the house, Senator Gold, are you
3432
1 suggesting that we should postpone doing this?
2 SENATOR GOLD: Not unless I
3 wanted to get killed.
4 SENATOR LACK: Well, in any
5 event, Mr. President, notwithstanding what
6 happens when you drive through Vestal where
7 our nominee happens to come from, it is with
8 great pleasure that I rise to move Ferris D.
9 Lebous of Vestal's nomination as judge of the
10 Court of Claims.
11 He was found highly qualified
12 by the Governor's Screening Committee. He
13 appeared before us this morning, was
14 unanimously moved to the floor of the Senate,
15 and it's with great pleasure that I yield to
16 Senator Thomas W., not Lebous, but Libous, not
17 of Vestal but of Binghamton, for the purposes
18 of a second.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
20 recognizes Senator Libous, on the nomination.
21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
22 President.
23 It is indeed an honor for me to
24 rise to move this nomination, and I think, Mr.
25 President, I need to clear a few things up.
3433
1 I've had several people ask me over the course
2 of the last few weeks why Ferris spells his
3 name Lebous and I spell mine Libous, and I
4 think that's pretty simple, that when his
5 grandparents and my grandparents came to this
6 country and came to Ellis Island, they needed
7 a convenient way to figure out how to sort the
8 mail since they were all going to live in the
9 same home so, therefore, part of the family
10 became Lebous and the other part became Libous
11 and, as the story goes, the Lebous part of the
12 family became successful and the Libous part
13 is still working on that.
14 But, Mr. President, I'm not
15 here to talk about family name. I'm here to
16 talk about the honor and pride that I have to
17 stand before this body today to move the
18 Governor's nomination to the Court of Claims
19 of Ferris D. Lebous.
20 Ferris has served in tremendous
21 capacity as he graduated law school and came
22 back to our community. He served in the
23 district attorney's office as assistant
24 district attorney and then went on to be
25 senior assistant district attorney for a
3434
1 number of years prosecuting many, many tough
2 cases, and then after that he went on to
3 become a successful member of the law firm,
4 Pearis, Ressiguie, Kline, Barber and Lebous,
5 where he focused his time on municipal law,
6 dealing and covering for the last 15 years the
7 town of Sanford, village of Windsor, town of
8 Dickinson, where he worked tirelessly in
9 helping those individuals in those towns as
10 they deal with the many laws that come down to
11 them from this body.
12 His activities did not cease,
13 though. He also worked in the community as a
14 member of the Sertoma Club, a member of the
15 Binghamton JCs, counsel to the Broome County
16 Republican Committee, a member of the Board of
17 Directors of Broome Legal Assistance
18 Corporation, Commissioner of Election for
19 Broome County, board member of the YMCA, of
20 course, his work on the Binghamton Symphony
21 Board and, as he mentioned earlier this
22 morning, he is a proud member of the American
23 Federation of Musicians Local 380, in
24 Binghamton, New York.
25 He has served the Broome County
3435
1 Bar Association as its president,
2 vice-president, director, member of public
3 relations, and on the Scholarship Committee.
4 Mr. President, it is a pleasure
5 for me to stand here with a bit of emotion and
6 a lot of personal pride to move this extremely
7 qualified nominee that the Governor has
8 brought before us and, before I close, I just
9 want to say that I hope this summer, as I
10 visit him on the lake, he'll still let me ride
11 in the paddleboat with him.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Spano, on the nomination.
14 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr.
15 President.
16 Let me first say that, Mr.
17 President, the Governor has selected a member
18 of the Libous family that spells their name
19 correctly to be appointed to the Court of
20 Claims, and let me say that I'm sure he chose
21 the successful part of the family to be
22 appointed. Look what we're left with here in
23 this chamber.
24 But it is a pleasure to join
25 with Senator Lack and, of course, my good
3436
1 friend and colleague, Senator Libous, in
2 saying that the Governor has selected someone
3 who's had an outstanding record as an
4 attorney, someone who I've certainly known for
5 a long time, who hails from that Southern Tier
6 of the state and I've had the opportunity to
7 visit, and to say that it's a proud day, a
8 proud day certainly for your family, proud day
9 for your parents, proud day where they can
10 call you "judge" and a very happy day for the
11 people of this state in the fact that the
12 Governor has recognized your potential and has
13 nominated you and hopefully in a few moments
14 will be confirmed by all the members of the
15 Senate as an outstanding member of the Court
16 of Claims.
17 It's my pleasure to join with
18 my colleague in seconding that nomination and
19 offering you my own best wishes and
20 congratulations.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Seward, on the nomination.
23 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, Mr.
24 President.
25 I'm also very proud to stand to
3437
1 second the confirmation of Ferris D. Lebous to
2 go on the Court of Claims. I have the pride
3 and honor of representing the northern part of
4 the Southern Tier if there is such a region,
5 along with Senator Libous, and thus I'm a
6 neighbor of Ferris Lebous, and I can say that
7 without question that Ferris Lebous is known
8 throughout our region as one who has built a
9 distinguished reputation and record not only
10 in the legal affairs that he's been involved
11 in over the years but also, of course, his
12 outstanding civic activities. He's worked
13 hard on behalf of his community over the
14 years.
15 I can also say that he is known
16 far and wide throughout our region as a man of
17 intelligence, integrity, energy, fair-minded.
18 He's got all the attributes that will make him
19 an outstanding judge of the Court of Claims,
20 so I am very honored and pleased, Ferris, on
21 behalf of the people just north of you, to
22 stand and to lend my support to this
23 confirmation.
24 I congratulate the Governor on
25 making an outstanding choice, and I'm proud to
3438
1 join all my colleagues in supporting your
2 confirmation.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is
4 there any other member wishing to speak on the
5 nomination? Hearing none, the question is on
6 the nomination of Ferris D. Lebous, of Vestal,
7 as a judge of the Court of Claims. All those
8 in favor of the nomination signify by saying
9 aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 Opposed nay.
12 (There was no response. )
13 The nominee is unanimously
14 confirmed. We're very, very pleased to have
15 Ferris Lebous in the chamber with us in the
16 gallery to your left along with his parents,
17 Patrick and Edna Lebous, and a friend, Casey
18 Krause. Judge, we're very, very happy to have
19 you with us. You do us proud.
20 (Applause)
21 Secretary will continue to
22 read.
23 THE SECRETARY: As a judge of
24 the Suffolk County Family Court, Dudley L.
25 Lehman.
3439
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Chair recognizes Senator Lack, on the
3 nomination.
4 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr.
5 President.
6 I very proudly stand up to move
7 the nomination of Dudley Lehman of Nesconset
8 as a judge of the Family Court of Suffolk
9 County.
10 I've known Dudley Lehman for
11 over 20 years personally. He's my
12 constituent. We're joined behind me by my
13 friend, and Dudley's friend, Assemblyman Bob
14 Wertz. Together Bob and I have worked with
15 Dudley Lehman for years on all sorts of
16 projects affecting our constituency.
17 He's a very active member of
18 the Smithtown community, a graduate of New
19 York University, of Brooklyn Law School,
20 member of the Suffolk County Bar Association
21 where he has done great work on the Grievance
22 Committee, the Torts Committee, Criminal Law
23 Committee. He was a law assistant, one of the
24 early ones, for the judges of the District
25 Court of Suffolk County. He is in the private
3440
1 practice of law for over 30 years, special
2 counsel to the board of zoning appeals and the
3 planning board of the town of Smithtown for
4 over a 20-year period.
5 He became a judge of the
6 Suffolk County District Court in January 1996
7 and since January '97 he's been the principal
8 law clerk to the former supervisor of
9 Smithtown, now a judge of the Suffolk County
10 County Court, the Honorable Charles
11 Cacciabaudo.
12 It's with great pleasure that I
13 congratulate the Governor on his appointment
14 of Dudley Lehman who, in his run for District
15 Court and now as a candidate for Family Court,
16 has been rated as qualified. The only
17 qualified position the Suffolk County Bar
18 Association does is find people qualified or
19 not qualified to run for both District Court
20 and now for Family Court. He will be a great
21 addition to the Family Court bench, which is
22 one of the most active courts in Suffolk
23 County that desperately needs another judge
24 and the Governor is coming down with this
25 judicial appointment at this time, it's
3441
1 particularly necessary in that court and he
2 has found a wonderful candidate who is
3 compassionate, knows the needs of Suffolk
4 County, the needs of the people of Suffolk
5 County, and will be a very, very good judge on
6 a very, very active bench.
7 So, Dudley, congratulations
8 from Bob and myself. Bob can't talk on the
9 floor, so I have to speak for him. Dudley is
10 joined today by his wife Marilyn and by his
11 daughter Susan.
12 So, Mr. President, thank you
13 very much for giving them the courtesies of
14 the floor and congratulations to you on your
15 nomination and, Mr. President, I would move
16 the nomination.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any
18 other member wishing to speak on the
19 nomination? Hearing none, the question is on
20 the nomination of Dudley L. Lehman, of
21 Nesconset, as a judge of the Suffolk County
22 Family Court. All those in favor of the
23 nomination signify by saying aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
25 Opposed nay.
3442
1 (There was no response. )
2 The nominee is unanimously
3 confirmed. We're very, very pleased to have
4 Judge Lehman in the chamber with us in the
5 gallery to your left, together with his wife
6 Marilyn and daughter Susan. Judge,
7 congratulations and good luck.
8 (Applause)
9 Reports of select committees.
10 Senator Maziarz.
11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 Mr. President, there is going
14 to be an immediate meeting of the Racing,
15 Gaming and Wagering Committee in Room 330 -
16 332, I'm sorry.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
18 will be an immediate meeting of the Racing,
19 Gaming and Wagering Committee in the Majority
20 Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting
21 of the Racing, Gaming and Wagering Committee
22 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
23 Communications and reports from
24 state officers.
25 Motions and resolutions. Chair
3443
1 recognizes Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
3 President.
4 On behalf of Senator Skelos, on
5 page 52 I offer the following amendments to
6 Calendar Number 922, Senate Print Number
7 6427-C, and ask that said bill retain its
8 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
10 Amendments to Calendar Number 922 are received
11 and adopted. The bill will retain its place
12 on the Third Reading Calendar.
13 Senator Libous.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: On behalf of
15 Senator Meier, on page 49, I offer the
16 following amendments to Calendar Number 887,
17 Senate, Senate Print 6927, and ask that said
18 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
19 Calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
21 Amendments to Calendar Number 887 are received
22 and adopted. The bill will retain its place
23 on the Third Reading Calendar.
24 Senator Libous.
25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
3444
1 on behalf of Senator Lack, on page 19, I offer
2 the following amendments to Calendar Number
3 403, Senate Print 5162-A, and ask that said
4 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
5 Calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
7 Amendments to Calendar Number 403 are received
8 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
9 the Third Reading Calendar.
10 Senator Libous.
11 SENATOR LIBOUS: On behalf of
12 Senator Marcellino, on page 57, I offer the
13 following amendments to Calendar Number 977,
14 Senate Print 6289, and ask that said bill
15 retain its place on the Third Reading
16 Calendar.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
18 Amendments to Calendar Number 977 are received
19 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
20 the Third Reading Calendar.
21 Senator Libous.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
23 on behalf of Senator Lack, on page 58, I offer
24 the following amendments to Calendar Number
25 981, Senate Print 6704, and ask that said bill
3445
1 retain its place on the Third Reading
2 Calendar.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
4 Amendments to Calendar Number 981 are received
5 and adopted. The bill will retain its place
6 on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: And, Mr.
8 President, on behalf of Senator Goodman, on
9 page 44, I offer the following amendments to
10 Calendar Number 846, Senate Print 7007-A, and
11 ask that said bill retain its place on the
12 Third Reading Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
14 Amendments to Calendar Number 846 are received
15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place
16 on the Third Reading Calendar.
17 Secretary will read the
18 substitutions at the desk.
19 THE SECRETARY: On page 44,
20 Senator Volker moves to discharge from the
21 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill 9788-A, and
22 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
23 6309-A.
24 On page 51, Senator Maziarz
25 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
3446
1 Assembly Bill 9827 and substitute it for the
2 identical Senate Bill 6961.
3 On page 52, Senator Johnson
4 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
5 Assembly Bill 10,023-A, and substitute it for
6 the identical Senate Bill 6674-A.
7 On page 4, Senator Cook moves
8 to discharge from the Committee on Rules
9 Assembly Print 9443 and substitute it for the
10 identical Senate Bill 6275.
11 On page 4, Senator Kuhl moves
12 to discharge from the Committee on Rules
13 Assembly Bill 10,280, and substitute it for
14 the identical Senate Bill 6827.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
16 Substitutions are ordered.
17 Senator Maziarz.
18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 Mr. President, at this time may
21 we please adopt the Resolution Calendar with
22 the exception of Resolution Number 3525, 3505,
23 3506 and 3507.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion
25 is to adopt the Resolution Calendar as
3447
1 presented on the members' desk with the
2 exceptions of Calendar or Resolutions Number
3 3525, 3505, 3506 and 3507. All those in favor
4 signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 Opposed nay.
7 (There was no response. )
8 The Resolution Calendar with
9 those exceptions is adopted.
10 Senator Balboni, why do you
11 rise?
12 SENATOR BALBONI: I wonder if I
13 might have the opportunity to speak briefly on
14 the resolution mourning the death of Paul G.
15 Hearne.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
17 Resolution number?
18 SENATOR BALBONI: 3519.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Balboni, speaking on the resolution.
21 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr.
22 President, oftentimes there passes in our
23 lives moments that we don't necessarily focus
24 on. Today perhaps is one of them.
25 Paul G. Hearne was a man of
3448
1 distinction who started -- began life with
2 greater challenges than most of us in this
3 chamber know. He's physically disabled. He
4 was the first graduate of what is now known as
5 the Viscardi School on Long Island, one of the
6 premier schools for the physically challenged
7 in the nation.
8 He became the president of the
9 Dole Foundation for employment for people with
10 disabilities, and his life was an example of
11 success in the face of adversity. The
12 Americans for Disabilities Act, the most
13 significant passage of legislation in this
14 nation for people with disabilities, was in
15 large measure due to his effort.
16 His death signals a victory for
17 people with disabilities and a celebration of
18 his life, so his family mourns him deeply, and
19 I just wanted to stand up briefly and take a
20 moment to say how proud I am to be a part of
21 this body and take a moment in this time of
22 mourning to consider his life of achievement.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Maziarz.
25 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
3449
1 Mr. President.
2 May we have Resolution Number
3 3525, by Senator Seward, read in its entirety
4 and move its immediate adoption.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the Resolution 3525, by
7 Senator Seward, in its entirety.
8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
9 Seward, Legislative Resolution congratulating
10 Oneonta High School Senior Girls' Basketball
11 Team and Coach Tom Moriarty on their
12 outstanding overall team record and upon
13 winning their Second Consecutive New York
14 State High School Athletic Association Class B
15 Championship.
16 WHEREAS, excellence and success
17 in competitive sports can be achieved only
18 through strenuous practice, team play and team
19 spirit, nurtured by dedicated coaching and
20 strategic planning;
21 Athletic competition enhances
22 the moral and physical development of the
23 young people of this state, preparing them for
24 the future by instilling in them the value of
25 teamwork and encouraging a standard of healthy
3450
1 living, imparting a desire for success and
2 developing a sense of fair play and
3 competition;
4 The Oneonta Senior High School
5 Girls' Basketball Team were the 1997 New York
6 State High School Athletic Association Class B
7 Champions;
8 The team reprised its success
9 in 1998, again capturing the Class B title;
10 In addition to winning their
11 Second Consecutive New York State Public High
12 School Athletic Association Class B
13 Championship, the Lady Yellowjackets are two
14 time Susquenango League Champions, two-time
15 Section IV Class B Champions and they are the
16 1997-98 New York State Federation Class B
17 Champions; the Lady Yellowjackets finished
18 their 1998 season with an unbeaten record of
19 27 and 0 and achieved a cumulative two-year
20 record of 53 and 1;
21 The athletic talent displayed
22 by this team is due in great part to the
23 efforts of Coach Tom Moriarty, a skilled and
24 inspirational tutor, respected for his ability
25 to develop potential into excellence;
3451
1 The team's overall record is
2 outstanding, and the team members were loyally
3 and enthusiastically supported by family,
4 fans, friends and the community-at-large;
5 The hallmarks of the Oneonta
6 Senior High School Girls' Basketball Team,
7 from the opening game of the season to
8 participation in the championship, were a
9 sisterhood of athletic ability, of good
10 sportsmanship, of honor and of scholarship,
11 demonstrating that these team players are
12 second to none;
13 Athletically and academically,
14 the team members have proven themselves to be
15 an unbeatable combination of talents,
16 reflecting favorably on their school;
17 Coach Tom Moriarty has done a
18 superb job in guiding, molding and inspiring
19 the team members toward their goals;
20 Sports competition instills the
21 values of teamwork, pride and accomplishment,
22 and Coach Tom Moriarty and 14 outstanding
23 athletes have clearly made a contribution to
24 the spirit of excellence which is a tradition
25 of their school.
3452
1 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED
2 that this legislative body pause in its
3 deliberations to congratulate the Oneonta
4 Senior High School Girls' Basketball Team; its
5 members: Kellee Roberts, Kristin Werdann,
6 Brinn Spencer, Nikki Miller, Erin Shackleton,
7 Marci Riddell, Krissy Zeh, Kelly Sosa, Laura
8 Erbe, Dana Wilkens, Karyn Pierce, Tiffany
9 Hurley, Stacy Knapp and Kristen Konstanty; and
10 Coach Tom Moriarty and Assistant Coach Brad
11 Zeh, and Ononta Senior High School Athletic
12 Director Robert Zeh on their outstanding
13 season and overall team record; and
14 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a
15 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed,
16 be transmitted to the Oneonta Senior High
17 School Girls' Basketball Team and to Coach Tom
18 Moriarty.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair
20 recognizes Senator Seward, on the resolution.
21 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, Mr.
22 President.
23 As a 1969 graduate of Oneonta
24 High School and now the Senator representing
25 the area, I rise for the second year in a row
3453
1 with a great deal of pride to congratulate the
2 Oneonta High School Lady Yellowjackets Varsity
3 Basketball Team on another outstanding
4 season.
5 This is another very special
6 team that has accomplished a great deal,
7 particularly over the last two years, the two
8 time Susquenango Champions, two-time Section
9 IV Class B champions, two times the New York
10 State Public High School Athletic Association
11 Class B Champions, the 1997-98 New York State
12 Federation Class B Champions finishing this
13 year with a 27 and 0 record, a two-year record
14 of 53 and 1. This is truly an outstanding
15 team.
16 The team is in the gallery with
17 us to day. They're joined today by head coach
18 Tom Moriarty and his wife, Ann. The athletic
19 director of Oneonta High School is not with us
20 today, but he's ably represented by his wife
21 Dorothy Zeh. Teacher Joe Hughes and very
22 special fan Ashley Cammarata are all in the
23 gallery with us today.
24 Now, this team, even though
25 they're still in their teen years, has taught
3454
1 us all a great deal about hard work, working
2 toward a goal, teamwork, fair play, healthy
3 living, team spirit, and what it means to
4 compete, all of those things that this team
5 has taught us a great deal about.
6 These are young people we all
7 can be proud of and they represent the very
8 best of our future. Congratulations, ladies.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
10 Question is on the resolution. All those in
11 favor signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 Opposed nay.
14 (There was no response. )
15 The resolution is adopted.
16 On behalf of Senator Bruno,
17 Senator Seward, all the members in the
18 chamber, we welcome these young women,
19 marvelous athletes, the Lady Yellowjackets
20 from Oneonta High School, to the chamber.
21 Congratulations on your wonderful spin through
22 the basketball world. Good luck in life and
23 thank you for coming and spending just a
24 moment with us. We hope you enjoy your stay.
25 If you would all stand, I know the members
3455
1 would like to recognize your presence.
2 (Applause)
3 Senator Holland.
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr.
5 President, there will be an immediate meeting
6 of the Veterans Committee in Room 332, please.
7 Immediate meeting of the Veterans Committee in
8 Room 332.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
10 will be an immediate meeting of the Veterans
11 Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
12 Room 332. Immediate meeting of the Veterans
13 Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
14 Room 332.
15 Senator Holland.
16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr.
17 President, can we have a reading of the
18 non-controversial calendar, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
20 Secretary will read the non-controversial
21 calendar.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 19, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 1593, an
24 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
25 including court officers.
3456
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
4 This act shall take effect on the first day of
5 November.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the
9 roll. )
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 330, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 737-A,
15 an act to amend the Public Health Law.
16 SENATOR COOK: Lay aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 441, by member of the Assembly John, Assembly
21 Print 9892, an act to amend Chapter 812 of the
22 Laws of 1987.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
3457
1 This act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the
5 roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 443, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6422, an
11 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
13 Secretary will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
15 This act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the
19 roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 642, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6751, an
25 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
3458
1 authorizing.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 5.
5 This act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the
9 roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 673, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6797, an
15 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
16 electronic equivalents.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
20 This act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will you lay
24 that aside.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay
3459
1 aside. 642, you're asking to be laid aside,
2 Senator Leichter? 673?
3 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's
4 fine.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's
6 fine. Call the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the
8 roll. )
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 681, by Senator Nozzolio.
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it
15 aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print
17 5195-A, an act to amend the Correction Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: 692, by Senator
21 Wright, Senate Print 5292, an act to amend the
22 Education Law, in relation to county awards.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
3460
1 This act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the
5 roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 706,by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6452, an act
11 to amend the Surrogate Court Procedure Act.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
13 Secretary will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4.
15 This act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the
19 roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 739, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5300, an
25 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
3461
1 relation to eliminating.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
3 Secretary will read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
5 This act shall take effect on the first day of
6 November.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the
10 roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 750, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6558, an
16 act to amend the Real Property Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
20 This act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the
24 roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
3462
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 754, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6907, an
5 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
6 to presiding.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
8 Secretary will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
10 This act shall take effect on the 90th day.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the
14 roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 757, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1931, an
20 act to amend the General Business Law, in
21 relation to unlawful possession of tobacco.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it
23 aside.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
25 Secretary will read the last section.
3463
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it
2 aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
4 bill aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 761, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6417, an
7 act to amend the General Business Law, in
8 relation to prohibiting.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
12 This act shall take effect on the 30th day.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the
16 roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 769, by Senator Present, Senate Print 6823, an
22 act to amend the Town Law and the Public
23 Officers Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
25 Secretary will read the last section.
3464
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
2 This act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the
6 roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 773, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4132, an
12 act to amend the Public Health Law and the
13 Education Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay aside,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 778, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6960, an
22 act to amend Chapter 841 of the Laws of 1987.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
3465
1 This act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the
5 roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 780, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7177, an
11 act to amend the Public Health Law and Chapter
12 674 of the Laws of 1997.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
14 Secretary will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
16 This act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the
20 roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 820, by Senator DeFrancisco, an act to amend
3466
1 the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to
2 the maximum speed limit.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
6 This act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the
10 roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 837, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5497, an
16 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
18 Secretary will read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
20 This act -
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it
22 aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
24 bill aside.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3467
1 867, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6772,
2 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 4.
6 This act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the
10 roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 875, by member of the Assembly Connelly,
16 Assembly Print 9184, an act to amend the
17 Mental Hygiene Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
19 Secretary will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
21 This act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
23 the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the
25 roll.)
3468
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 979, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 6357, an
6 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
7 aggravated harassment.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
9 Secretary will read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
11 This act shall take effect on the first day of
12 November.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the
16 roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1021, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 6482, an
22 act authorizing the village of Hunter, Greene
23 County.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
25 is a home rule message at the desk. Secretary
3469
1 will read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4.
3 This act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the
7 roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 bill is passed.
11 Senator Dollinger, why do you
12 rise?
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
14 President, I believe I was outside the chamber
15 briefly when the vote was taken on Calendar
16 642, Senate Print 6751. Could I have
17 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
18 negative on that bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
20 objection.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
23 no objection, Senator Dollinger will be
24 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
25 642, Senate Print 6751.
3470
1 Senator Holland, that completes
2 the reading of the non-controversial calendar.
3 What's your pleasure, sir?
4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Could we have
5 a reading of the controversial calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will begin the reading of the
8 controversial calendar, beginning with
9 Calendar Number 330, Senate Print 737-A, by
10 Senator Johnson.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 330, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 737-A,
13 an act to amend the Public Health Law, in
14 relation to public notification of health
15 hazards.
16 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Cook.
19 SENATOR COOK: Will Senator
20 Johnson yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm
22 sure he will, but -- Senator Johnson, Calendar
23 Number 330, Senator Cook has asked whether or
24 not you would yield to a question.
25 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr.
3471
1 President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3 yields.
4 SENATOR COOK: Thank you,
5 Senator Johnson, my dear neighbor sometimes.
6 Senator, are there any similar
7 provisions in law relative to chlorine?
8 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well,
9 actually, I don't have all the law here, but
10 there's a whole list of chemicals which, if
11 they're too much in the water they have to
12 declare it a contaminant and make an
13 announcement and stop the usage.
14 SENATOR COOK: So this puts
15 fluoride in the -- fluoride in the same
16 category as other things that are already in
17 the law; is that what you're telling me?
18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, that's
19 true, Senator. I might have some figures on
20 the others.
21 SENATOR COOK: Well, as long as
22 you're telling me that that's already -- this
23 is in the law.
24 I would say, Mr. President, my
25 concern, if I may, on the bill.
3472
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Cook, on the bill.
3 SENATOR COOK: Senator, Mr.
4 President, I'm going to support this bill
5 based on Senator Johnson's assurance that this
6 is in keeping with other things, but I am
7 concerned that -- about the labeling of
8 fluoride as a contaminant. Certainly it is
9 possible to have an overdose of chloride
10 and -- of fluoride in the drinking water, and
11 certainly people should be notified in any
12 event when any additive to a public water
13 system may become an overdose, but I am
14 concerned that putting in law the contention
15 that fluoride is a contaminant because,
16 indeed, it has been shown consistently that
17 it's a very good way of assuring the dental
18 health of the children of this state. I think
19 that the dental health of our children has
20 improved markedly over the past several
21 decades that we've been adding fluorides to
22 the drinking water, and I really wouldn't want
23 us to do something in this house which might
24 indicate that there was something dangerous
25 about doing that beyond the simple point that,
3473
1 of course, adding anything to the drinking
2 water in an excessive amount could create a
3 hazard.
4 I am assuming that the latter
5 is what Senator Johnson is attempting to
6 address and, therefore, I'll vote for the
7 bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any
9 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
10 Senator Dollinger.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through
12 you, Mr. President, if Senator Johnson will
13 yield to just one question.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Johnson, do you yield to a question from
16 Senator Dollinger?
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 yields.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator
22 Johnson, how does the public notification
23 occur when this event happens? What's the
24 cost -
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3474
1 Dollinger, excuse me for just an
2 interruption. There are a couple members who
3 are standing up in your line. If we might
4 just have the members take their seats.
5 Senator Onorato, you're right in the line of
6 debate.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Mark your ball.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Mark
9 your ball, and please come back later. Thank
10 you for -
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I saw
12 Senator Gold kick it under the table.
13 Senator Johnson, who does the
14 notification and who pays for it? How much
15 does it usually cost?
16 SENATOR JOHNSON: I have part
17 of that code here, the State Health Code, and
18 this is already classified as a contaminant if
19 it's over 2 parts per million. That's already
20 in the law.
21 The notification is done by the
22 Health Department after notifying, the water
23 authority notifies them that it's contaminated
24 and they make the announcement.
25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again
3475
1 through you, Mr. President, is it just an
2 announcement or publication or other data?
3 I'm just interested in what the cost of the
4 requirement of notice is?
5 SENATOR JOHNSON: I couldn't
6 tell you the cost, but it's the same way for
7 all the other listes contaminants, when they
8 have an over-supply in the water, they tell
9 you don't drink the water, run your water,
10 boil the water. You will hear it on the radio
11 yourself. You know how it is when there is a
12 contaminant, sewage contaminant or something,
13 they -- everyone is notified and don't use the
14 water. It would be the same method, I'm sure
15 it -
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: -- wouldn't be
18 more expensive than the cost of health if
19 someone consumed fluorine two or three times
20 the level which is acceptable.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again
22 through you, Mr. President, that answers my
23 question.
24 On the bill, just briefly.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3476
1 Dollinger, on the bill.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, on
3 the bill, I share the sentiments of Senator
4 Cook. It's hard to believe that there's too
5 much of a good thing could become a
6 contaminant. I agree fluoride has been a
7 wonderful thing for the people -- the children
8 of this state, particularly with respect to
9 their dental health, and we had a debate, I'm
10 sure, on this floor 30 or 40 years ago about
11 whether fluoride in the water was part of the
12 a Communist conspiracy, and all those other
13 things, and I would just hate to think that we
14 were -
15 SENATOR JOHNSON: You missed
16 that debate.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I did miss
18 that debate. Were you there, Senator Johnson?
19 I should ask.
20 SENATOR GOLD: It was his bill.
21 SENATOR JOHNSON: It's a new
22 one on me, Senator.
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But I agree
24 with Senator Cook. I'm going to vote for this
25 bill. If there is a health hazard posed by too
3477
1 much fluoride, we should follow public
2 notification procedures.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
4 Secretary will read the last section. Oh,
5 Senator -- excuse me, Senator Leichter. You
6 wish to speak on the bill?
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Would
8 Senator Johnson yield, please?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Johnson, do you yield to a question from
11 Senator Leichter?
12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 yields.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator
16 Johnson, I assume there are a number of things
17 that are put into water to purify it.
18 Obviously if you put in too much it could
19 create a problem and a hazard, but are you
20 telling us that every chemical or every
21 substance that's put into water to purify it
22 that the public health code now provides
23 specifically what levels are safe and that, if
24 there's an overdose of that particular level,
25 that it's a hazard?
3478
1 SENATOR JOHNSON: I believe
2 that's so, Senator, although I can't -- there
3 are literally thousands of contaminants and
4 this list has 20 or 30 on here, so maybe some
5 have been excepted. I can't tell you for
6 sure, but there's no doubt about it that
7 chlorine and fluorine are both poisons and you
8 can have too much of a good thing, you know,
9 like a little arsenic did a lot of good for
10 Rasputin, but you know, too much got him.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Leichter.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if
14 Senator Johnson will continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Johnson, do you continue to yield? Senator
17 continues to yield.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
19 absent listing the fluoride or fluorine with a
20 quantity or a content of greater than two and
21 two-tenths parts, wouldn't the public health
22 authorities if they feel there's a threat to
23 the drinking water, have the authority to ban
24 the addition of that chemical to the water and
25 also to notify the public that there is a
3479
1 health hazard?
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well,
3 Senator, we're talking about an error,
4 breakdown in machinery, or error in the dosage
5 of the ingredient going into the water. We're
6 not talking about the general philosophy,
7 whether you should or shouldn't have it,
8 nothing to do with this bill.
9 This bill says if you exceed
10 the limits which are in the present public
11 health regulations, if those limits are
12 exceeded you notify people so they shouldn't
13 consume it until the levels are brought back
14 to normal. That's all it does; it's a
15 notification bill, pure and simple.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Mr.
17 President, if Senator Johnson would continue
18 to yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Johnson, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand
22 what you're trying to do. What I'm trying to
23 find out is whether you're singling out
24 fluorine because of some antipathy that you
25 may have toward the use of chlorine, and I'm
3480
1 asking you whether the provisions of your bill
2 as they apply to chlorine exist to every other
3 substance that's put in the water where a
4 substance is perfectly safe and is used if it
5 is used in an excess quantities may cause a
6 problem.
7 Do we, in every such instance,
8 actually list what that amount is and the
9 substance which we're trying to avoid the over
10 use of?
11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I
12 haven't studied the entire Public Health Law
13 or regulations, but there are many other
14 articles in here which, if they're
15 contaminated, you have to do something about
16 it and make notification, and so forth, and
17 even tells you how to do it, disinfection,
18 flocculation, I don't really know all the
19 details, Senator. All I know is that if
20 there's an over-supply of something which is a
21 contaminant and a poison which you find in the
22 law presently, some kind of contaminant, we
23 shouldn't have the people consume the water
24 with that gross amount of contaminant in it,
25 but just whatever the amount is specified, .06
3481
1 or 1.4.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
3 President, if Senator Johnson continues to
4 yield.
5 Senator, I don't think there's
6 any dispute between you and me that, if there
7 is a contaminant in the water that action
8 ought to be taken. What I'm concerned about
9 is that we, by legislation, identify one
10 particular water purifier, fix in law what the
11 safe levels are, and then ask the -- and
12 really bind the hands of the public health
13 authorities in that respect when we don't do a
14 similar identification and set quantity -
15 safe quantity levels for any other substance,
16 at least as far as I know.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I think
18 we do, Senator. There is a list and there are
19 details here about notification of the various
20 other contaminants in the water. I just can't
21 read you a complete list of all the
22 contaminants, but all I know is that if they
23 were my -- if I represented a group of people
24 and I found out that the machinery broke down
25 and there was an excess supply of fluoride or
3482
1 chlorine or anything else I would tell you to
2 notify the people because these things are
3 poison and too much has been heard about
4 people with kidney troubles, elderly people
5 are very susceptible to overdoses of fluoride
6 so I think it's just plain common sense to
7 notify the public that there could be a hazard
8 and not to consume it until that problem is
9 cleared up. I think it makes sense. I don't
10 think it's -- it's no debate on fluoride; it's
11 just a debate on good common sense relating to
12 public notification.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
14 President, if Senator Johnson would yield to
15 another question, please.
16 Senator, I have no problem, but
17 what may be common sense to you may seem to me
18 as being possibly driven by ideology, and I
19 just want to make sure that it's common sense
20 and that we're applying the very same standard
21 to chlorine that we are to every -- to every
22 other chemical or substance put in the water,
23 but let me ask you this question: Where does
24 the two point two tenths come from?
25 SENATOR JOHNSON: That is in
3483
1 the state health code right now. That is
2 their standard. I'm not coming up with
3 another figure. That's their figure for
4 contaminant, because it's a gross over-supply
5 being fed in there, and -- and they feel it's
6 a health hazard at that point. All I'm saying
7 is, if that's so let people know about it.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Leichter.
11 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'll give you
12 a copy of this, Senator, if you'd like.
13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, I
14 appreciate that, Senator Johnson. If you
15 would yield for another question, please.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Johnson, do you continue to yield? The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator,
20 you're telling me, and I don't have the
21 public -- I have the law in front of me, but I
22 don't have the regulations that obviously
23 you're reading from. You're saying that these
24 presently provide that the safe usage of
25 chlorine or fluoride is two point two-tenths
3484
1 apart; is that correct?
2 SENATOR JOHNSON: No, that's
3 the level beyond which it's considered
4 contaminant; the safe level is .06 or 1.4.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K.
6 SENATOR JOHNSON: But this -
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: As I
8 understand it, the code says if you have more
9 than two point two tenths.
10 SENATOR JOHNSON: It's a con
11 taminant.
12 SENATOR LEICHTER: It's a
13 contaminant.
14 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's their
15 list; that's their terminology.
16 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K., and
17 under the law as it exists now if, through
18 some mechanical breakdown or some mistake, 3.
19 -- 3.0 or three parts, whatever it is, over
20 the contaminant level is put in the water,
21 what happens?
22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, people
23 get ill.
24 SENATOR LEICHTER: What do the
25 public health authorities do?
3485
1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Right now
2 they tell them to correct the problem. They
3 tell the water authorities to correct the
4 problem.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. All
6 right.
7 SENATOR JOHNSON: But they
8 don't notify anybody that the contaminated
9 stuff is in the water supply. It will be
10 there for a few days.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if
12 you would be so good as to continue to yield.
13 Under this list that you have in your hand
14 stating what the safe levels are of these
15 various chemicals -
16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Right.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: If that
18 level is exceeded as regards any other
19 chemical, what do the public health
20 authorities now do?
21 SENATOR JOHNSON: There are
22 notification things for many of these items.
23 I say not all. You have the law, I have the
24 regulations. You have the complete law; I
25 don't have all the regulations, but there are
3486
1 listings for many other chemicals as well.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right.
3 Excuse me, if you will continue to yield,
4 Senator.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Johnson, do you continue to yield? Senator
7 continues to yield.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Did you say
9 that in some instances, if the contaminant
10 level is exceeded, the regulations now require
11 or the law -- I don't see it in the law, but
12 in the regulations, that notification be given
13 to the public and that would be understandable
14 because there's a danger to the public. If
15 somebody put acid in the water, you want the
16 public to know, don't drink this water.
17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Right.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: But you're
19 saying that, in some instances under the
20 current law and regulations, including
21 fluoride, that if more than 2.2 parts are put
22 into the water which is the contaminant level
23 which you say is stated in the regulations,
24 there is no requirement that the public be in
25 formed.
3487
1 SENATOR JOHNSON: I didn't say
2 that. I said I don't know if that's so in
3 every case. I said I don't know if that's so
4 in every case.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, what
6 I'm trying to understand from you, Senator
7 Johnson, if you continue to yield, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Johnson, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: When you -
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
12 me, Senator Leichter. Just let me find out if
13 the Senator continues to yield. Senator
14 Johnson, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 yields.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Under the -
19 under the current law and regulations, in all
20 instances where contaminant levels are
21 exceeded as stated in law and regulations, do
22 the public health authorities have to give
23 notification to the public?
24 SENATOR JOHNSON: I -- you're
25 going to make me study this for half an hour,
3488
1 Franz? I would say the answer is no if you ask
2 me in every case does it have to be done. I
3 can't tell you about every case, but there are
4 contaminants listed here; there's a procedure
5 for notification, and so on. I can't tell you
6 that they have to do it in every case. I
7 think this is a case where the known
8 contaminant could be harmful to people subject
9 to kidney trouble, older people, and so forth,
10 and I think we should let people know about
11 it, simple as that.
12 If you want to study the law,
13 if you want to put in a regulation yourself
14 for other contaminants, I'd be glad to do it.
15 I'm not sure that everything is covered in
16 public notification.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well,
18 Senator, again if you'd continue to yield,
19 Senator Johnson.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Johnson, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Presently
24 it's currently left to the discretion of the
25 public health authorities in what instances
3489
1 they will notify the public, although -- and
2 that's really my question -- that the Public
3 Health Law, the regulations identify certain
4 contaminants where, if the safe level is
5 exceeded, the public health authorities are
6 mandated to give notice to the public, is that
7 correct?
8 SENATOR JOHNSON: I would say
9 that's probably true, yes.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me?
11 SENATOR JOHNSON: I would say
12 that's very likely true. What you said may be
13 very well -- may be true.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well,
15 Senator Johnson, it would seem to me that
16 wouldn't it make more sense if any bill at all
17 is needed to have a bill that says that where
18 drinking water is not safe because
19 contaminants have been added to it, that the
20 public health authorities using their judgment
21 ought to give notification to the public? Why
22 don't -- why don't we have a bill of that
23 sort?
24 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, because
25 it's not as -- as simple as you may think.
3490
1 Some contaminants occur naturally in the water
2 supply or because there is some problem a long
3 way from the source and have to be dealt with
4 in a different manner than something where
5 you're deliberately adding it to the supply
6 and you could make an error and the machine
7 could break down.
8 There are other contaminants
9 which exist in the soil for one reason or
10 another and have to be taken out. That's so
11 that -- so they're all on the same list. I'm
12 saying I can't give you a blank answer. All I
13 can say is this is a poison when it's
14 exceeded. People should know about it and
15 action should be taken promptly and people
16 have a right to know about it. Simple as
17 that, Senator.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
19 President, one final question of you, Senator
20 Johnson. That's exactly my point, that you've
21 identified a certain chemical that you have a
22 certain antipathy toward and have directed the
23 Public Health Department to give notification
24 if levels above that which supposedly the
25 regulations state are not safe, if you exceed
3491
1 those levels that notification should be
2 given.
3 It seems to me that, if
4 notification should be given, then it ought to
5 broadly state that the public health
6 authorities ought to give notification
7 whenever -- whenever there are contaminants
8 which would create a danger to the health of
9 the public that drinks that water. That, it
10 would seem to me, would make good sense,
11 Senator Johnson.
12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I think
13 I'm going to do that in my next bill,
14 Senator. I have one bill left. I'm going to
15 put that one in, but right now we're talking
16 about this bill. This is something is added
17 gratuitously. Everybody doesn't want it, in
18 fact some areas don't have any additional
19 fluoride at all; some do. It depends upon the
20 community and their wishes, and the health
21 commission in that area, so I'm saying this is
22 something you can get too much of a good thing
23 and it's not like chlorine. Chlorine is there
24 for the purposes of disinfecting the water,
25 protection from disease. This doesn't protect
3492
1 anybody from disease at all. This is added
2 for another reason completely. This is a
3 nutrient, or some people consider it a
4 nutrient or chemical which some people think
5 you should ingest. Some people may like to,
6 some may not like to but if you get more than
7 is good for you, it's bad for you, see, and
8 that's why you have this bill, to let people
9 know about that.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
11 President, on the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Leichter, on the bill.
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
15 President, this may not seem of great moment,
16 but for that matter, almost nothing we've done
17 has been of great moment, but I know it's a
18 bill that means a lot to Senator Johnson, and
19 I appreciate the way that he wants to express
20 his concern, but whether it makes sense as
21 public policy, I think, is another question.
22 It's clear to me that anything
23 that is a contaminant that endangers the
24 health of the public drinking the water, that
25 the public health authorities have to take
3493
1 appropriate action not only to tell those
2 persons who are responsible for putting that
3 contaminant in there not to do it or in some
4 instances to move against them criminally but
5 to warn the public.
6 There can be thousands of
7 contaminants. For us, in legislation, to take
8 this particular contaminant and to say that
9 2.2 is the safe level, I don't know whether it
10 is or isn't, but I'll accept Senator Johnson's
11 word that that's the safe level, but we don't
12 do that, as I understand from Senator Johnson,
13 for any other number of contaminants.
14 I think there ought to be a
15 general direction given to the public health
16 authorities. My belief is that right now if
17 water is contaminated, whether by fluorine,
18 fluorides or any other contamination which
19 could create a public health menace, that the
20 public is notified. I know that happened in
21 the city of New York where we had a problem,
22 so I suspect, Senator Johnson, that much as
23 you say that you're just concerned that people
24 don't get too much of a good thing, that
25 you're expressing what I gather has been a
3494
1 long-standing antipathy that you have to
2 putting fluorides in the water.
3 That's your view. I don't
4 think it's the view of most public health
5 authorities. I don't think really it's the
6 view of the majority of this body or of the
7 Assembly, and I think that to put this in the
8 law in the manner that you do does stigmatize
9 chlorine and fluorides in a way and may well
10 hamper the activities and the proper discharge
11 of duties by public health authorities.
12 If you want to do it broadly
13 across the board and say something which I
14 think is probably already the law, certainly
15 the practice, if the water is contaminated let
16 the public know without identifying specific
17 contaminants, I think that's fine, but for
18 this Legislature now to say, Well, this is a
19 contaminant where you've got to give notice
20 but we don't get -- we don't tell them that
21 they've got to give notice for any other
22 contaminant. I don't think that makes sense.
23 I'm -- in spite of Senator
24 Johnson, I agree with you. We don't want too
25 much of a good thing. I'm not sure this bill
3495
1 is a good thing.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
3 Secretary will read the last section. Excuse
4 me. Senator Gold.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
6 President, just briefly.
7 I think that the last few
8 minutes is a really good example of the value
9 of my distinguished colleague, Senator
10 Leichter, to this chamber and why he'll be
11 missed so much.
12 Senator Johnson, I agree with
13 you, and I'm going to vote for the bill. I
14 think that the key word is the word "overdose"
15 and we all know that there are many good
16 things out there, medications, et cetera,
17 where people get hurt, and we all read in the
18 paper about the word "overdose" and I don't
19 think that we stigmatize something if we try
20 to protect against an abuse, but when I -
21 going back to my colleague, Senator Leichter,
22 I really do encourage the members of the house
23 to consider his comments because it is a good
24 point, and I respect Senator Johnson's
25 sensitivity to the chlorine issue, but perhaps
3496
1 as a result of this debate, we can be
2 sensitized to the broader issue and perhaps
3 get a broader solution.
4 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Cook.
7 SENATOR COOK: I just wanted to
8 sort of underline this -- the concerns that
9 have been expressed on the other side of the
10 aisle, because for years when we had surface
11 water in our village, it smelt like cow
12 manure, a good bit of the time and nobody
13 every informed me that there were contaminants
14 in it and I think we ought to be told that
15 that happens; so I urge support for the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Paterson.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
19 President, on the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Paterson, on the bill.
22 SENATOR PATERSON: I'd like to
23 point out that the state standard of 2.2 parts
24 per million liters of water containing
25 fluoride was really a standard of risk, I
3497
1 would say, rather than a standard of
2 contamination because the federal standard is
3 4 parts per million of fluoride, and what I
4 would imagine is that Senator Johnson set this
5 standard to be well within the federal -- the
6 federal mandate, and also complying with what
7 the New York State Department of Health
8 interpretation of what would be a very high
9 risk.
10 The question really centers
11 around where do we move from what we might
12 term as risk into an actual danger zone.
13 There are questions where, above 4 parts per
14 million of fluoride in the water, that there
15 has been evidence of mottling where there are
16 brown spots that are located on the teeth of
17 particularly children who are exposed to this,
18 but this probably is a subject, as Senator
19 Gold suggested, that this probably would be
20 something that we might want to look into on a
21 wider perspective.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any
23 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
24 Secretary will read the last
25 section.
3498
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
2 This act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the
6 roll. )
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes fifty....
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
9 the negatives; announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays
11 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the
12 negative.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Fuschillo.
15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
16 President, could we please take up Calendar
17 Number 757, Senator Libous.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Before
19 we do that, Senator Fuschillo, could I
20 recognize Senator Alesi? Why do you rise?
21 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President,
22 may I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in
23 the negative on Calendar 642?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
25 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Alesi
3499
1 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
2 642.
3 Senator Nozzolio, why do you
4 rise?
5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr.
6 President, I wish to be recorded in the
7 negative on Calendar Number 642.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
9 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
10 Nozzolio will be recorded in the negative on
11 Calendar Number 642.
12 Secretary will read Calendar
13 Number 757, by Senator Libous.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 757, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1931, an
16 act to amend the General Business Law, in
17 relation to unlawful possession of tobacco.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Montgomery.
20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
21 President. I don't have any questions for -
22 for the sponsor, but I would like to just
23 point out to my colleagues that this
24 legislation will establish illegality for
25 young people under the age of 18 who possess
3500
1 tobacco in any form.
2 The legislation further
3 establishes that any person under the age of
4 18 who unlawfully possesses tobacco may be
5 summoned to court, and the court may impose a
6 fine and/or community service.
7 So, therefore, it says to me
8 that we are once again treating possession and
9 use of tobacco specifically by young people as
10 a crime. We're criminalizing smoking by young
11 people, and certainly if you impose community
12 service, that is a sentence that is frequently
13 imposed for people who come before the judge
14 for some form of minor criminal activity, a
15 misdemeanor or what have you.
16 I am opposed to this, not
17 because I don't want young people to smoke but
18 certainly I will -- I think it is -- it is a
19 very slippery slope that we are embarking on
20 when we have criminalization because of the
21 use of tobacco, so I would like to just point
22 that out to my colleagues, and I know that
23 some of us opposed it last year, the last
24 time, and I certainly hope that more people
25 will oppose it because I just think we should
3501
1 not be doing this.
2 We've done this, we've made
3 this error in the past with marijuana, and now
4 look at what we have on our hands, no less use
5 but we have a lot of people who are
6 incarcerated because of it, so this is just
7 another example of a wrong direction, this
8 policy.
9 Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Thank you, Senator.
12 Senator Libous.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
14 Senator.
15 I just wanted to clarify a
16 point based on Senator Montgomery's comments
17 because they're good comments, and that's why
18 the bill, Senator, does not make it a criminal
19 offense. As a matter of fact, we had had
20 several people in the first drafting bring
21 that to our attention.
22 It becomes a violation, which
23 is not a criminal offense, does not go on the
24 record. The fine would be up to $50 and/or
25 community service. It's very similar to the
3502
1 legislation that we passed in this house, I
2 believe sponsored by Senator Cook several
3 years ago, that dealt with possession of
4 alcohol. Again that legislation, this is
5 patterned after that because we too, Senator,
6 were concerned that making it a criminal
7 offense is not the way to go.
8 What we're trying to do is add
9 onto the tobacco act, the prevention act that
10 was passed in 1992 in this house that
11 restricted the sale of tobacco products in
12 vending machines, and we felt that this
13 legislation would then take added
14 responsibility. Certainly a minor today walks
15 into a store under age, buys tobacco
16 products. That store keeper, if caught, is
17 always fined and penalized. It is our intent
18 here to make it the responsibility to the
19 minor, that the minor understands that they've
20 done something wrong and that to purchase that
21 product, possess that product, is not right,
22 it's not legal and that the intent here is
23 basically to do that.
24 It is not to have any criminal
25 record or criminal offense.
3503
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
2 Senator Dollinger.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 I voted for this bill last
6 year. I'm going to vote for it again, Senator
7 Libous, but just in sitting here thinking
8 about it, I understand the sentiments of my
9 colleague, Senator Montgomery, and I guess one
10 of my concerns is, it seems as though this
11 bill means that, if you're smoking outside
12 your high school, you're going to be arrested,
13 you're going to be stopped by the police and
14 they're going to confiscate even your single
15 butt if that's all you're smoking is a single
16 cigarette.
17 It seems to me that we sort of
18 go around the edges of this problem with
19 tobacco, and I think there is a very serious
20 problem of children smoking too much. This is
21 extremely dangerous to your health and
22 extremely addictive, but this bill is a real,
23 I think a good step but a small one. I think
24 what we need to do is come up with a real
25 well-defined tobacco policy in this state.
3504
1 I'm afraid that this bill may be used more to
2 harass teenagers who are doing something that
3 they shouldn't be doing because it's terrible
4 health for them, rather than curing the
5 problem of childhood smoking.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator Marchi.
8 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
9 many years ago I voted against raising the
10 legal drinking age to 21, and I had held what
11 I felt was a very objective, analytical review
12 of this with a blue panel of people,
13 presidents of colleges. I thought they were a
14 splendid array of people.
15 The unrealistic nature of
16 bringing it from 18 to 21 is to build a lot of
17 cynicism in the feelings of young people
18 because there is absolutely no disposition to
19 enforce it and it is violated with
20 regularity. In fact, the other states which
21 had a 21-year-old law also had wild melees, in
22 New Jersey and Connecticut where they had to
23 call out the National Guard. We didn't have
24 any of that. Nevertheless we proceeded to
25 legislate in that area.
3505
1 I -- I looked at tobacco at
2 that time and I felt that tobacco also
3 represented, in its abuse and in its use an
4 even earlier threat, and -- but very simple to
5 tackle it because they were enforcing the
6 18-year-old with fairly good results, so I
7 added tobacco. So -- or I made a separate
8 bill with tobacco. It wouldn't go anywhere.
9 So finally I said, let's put them under
10 regulatory regulations where you don't have to
11 -- where your forum of decision can end up
12 with a suspension, and, of course, maybe
13 rightly so, a lot of people objected to that.
14 They said that it would only involve the mama
15 and papa shops that really lived on cigarettes
16 and tobacco.
17 But these are the differences
18 between practicality and what happens when it
19 hits society. It's very significant, Mr.
20 President. Despite the fact that we have a
21 law, no one has ever been put in jail, to my
22 knowledge, as having committed a crime if they
23 were under the legal drinking age, but the
24 State Liquor Authority had the authority to
25 suspend that license, and that's what made it
3506
1 tick.
2 So when I suggested that, well,
3 the outcry was even more vociferous, you know,
4 to regulate the vendors under the penalty of
5 suspension of their right to sell, say for a
6 month or whatever.
7 Well, I reluctantly have to
8 vote against this bill, because I still feel
9 it's somewhat out of touch with reality, and
10 despite the indisputable qualities of the
11 sponsor, I am constrained to vote against this
12 bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 Read the last section, please.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
16 This act shall take effect on the first day of
17 September.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the
21 roll. )
22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
23 President, to explain my vote.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Senator Leichter, to explain his vote.
3507
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I supported
2 the bill last year, and I certainly support
3 Senator Libous' efforts to reduce teen-age
4 smoking which is a terrible problem, but I
5 think the points that have been made by my
6 colleagues, Senator Marchi and Senator
7 Montgomery, are probably correct that we may
8 be creating more of a difficulty and a problem
9 for ourselves.
10 I'm also concerned what it
11 would mean if suddenly hundreds of thousands
12 of cases now have to be taken to the criminal
13 court. We have a criminal court system in the
14 city of New York that is greatly overburdened,
15 as you know. Are we going to take now the
16 time of judges to deal with children smoking
17 when they should be dealing with more serious
18 offenses to the public?
19 I think well intentioned as
20 this bill is, Senator Libous, I'm not sure
21 that it's really going to work. I think what
22 will work, hopefully and I think it will, is
23 what's being done in the Congress now where
24 the price of cigarettes is going to be raised
25 possibly by as much as $1.50 and that more
3508
1 than anything else will discourage teen-age
2 smoking. I think maybe that sort of economic
3 incentive not to smoke is going to be much
4 more effective than this bill.
5 I'm going to vote in the
6 negative this year.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
8 Announce the results, please.
9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
10 in the negative on Calendar Number 757 are
11 Senators Farley, Leichter, Marchi, Markowitz,
12 Montgomery, and Stavisky. Ayes 52, nays 6.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 The bill is passed.
15 Senator Seward.
16 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
17 President. I was unavoidably out of the
18 chamber when a bill passed earlier today, and
19 I would ask unanimous consent to be recorded
20 in the negative on Calendar Number 642, Senate
21 6751.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Without objection.
24 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
3509
1 Continue reading the controversial calendar,
2 please.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 681, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5195-A,
5 an act to amend the Correction Law and the
6 Criminal Procedure Law.
7 SENATOR PATERSON:
8 Explanation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Senator Nozzolio, an explanation has been
11 asked for by Senator Paterson.
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 Mr. President, this bill before
15 us would curb the practice of "scare" mail.
16 "Scare" mail is that unwanted harassing
17 victimizing correspondence that takes place
18 from inside our prisons that has ramifications
19 outside those walls.
20 This measure provides that
21 anyone, particularly a victim, can make notice
22 that they do not want to be the recipient of
23 correspondence or telephone -- and/or
24 telephone calls from said inmates, that it is
25 a practice that goes on all too frequently,
3510
1 further victimizes victims and that it is a
2 practice that the Department of Corrections,
3 under the leadership of the Governor, wishes
4 to curtail and that's why this measure is
5 before this house for consideration.
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
9 Senator Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: For whatever
11 reason, it would seem a good idea that, if an
12 individual contacts the Department of
13 Corrections and makes the Department aware of
14 unwanted letters or telephone calls emanating
15 from a state facility that that individual
16 should be allowed the right to prevent the
17 inmate from contacting them, particularly
18 while they are being incarcerated in a state
19 facility.
20 However, there's a section of
21 the bill that I think to some degree under
22 mines the strength of it, and that is ab
23 solving the state of any responsibility should
24 an individual be victimized in such a
25 situation, and wish to, because of the damage
3511
1 that they have suffered, bring an action
2 against the state.
3 It is a general policy that the
4 state cannot absolve itself from any
5 responsibility that is created by a law. In
6 this case, we are actually making a law, a law
7 that protects individuals and, although I
8 don't exactly know off the top of my head how
9 someone would prove damages from phone calls
10 or letters, but I guess there certainly could
11 be that case. There could be intentional
12 infliction of emotional harm or some kind of
13 action in which the aggrieved would be able to
14 prove damages.
15 It's my opinion that the state,
16 since we are passing this law, can't, with the
17 one hand, pass it and then on the other hand
18 say, but just in case we don't meet our
19 responsibility, you can't turn around and sue
20 us. So I think that the bill's merit is
21 something whose time has come, and there are a
22 number of incidents where numbers of letters
23 come from inmates, I think maybe even a few
24 legislators might want to invoke that
25 possibility, but in all seriousness, I don't
3512
1 think you can pass a law that has built into
2 it what would be a restriction on bringing a
3 lawsuit when the -- the law is actually
4 violated.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator Gold.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
9 read the memo from the Trial Lawyers on this
10 point, and I think Senator Paterson is exactly
11 right in most situations, but in this one, I
12 think the bill needs the language and let me
13 explain why.
14 There is now going on in
15 America a new kind of scam, and it was on the
16 radio just a couple days ago, and for reasons
17 I don't want to go into too much today, it
18 does involve, in some instances, the prisons
19 and there are situations, Senator Paterson,
20 where there is now a system whereby some
21 prisoners have found a way to make long
22 distance calls and local calls and
23 communications out of the prison in a way that
24 the prison authorities don't even know it's
25 being done. It's a scam on the phone
3513
1 companies, it's a scam on the general public,
2 but until if ever they can beat that, it seems
3 to me that it is fair to give the state an out
4 because unless there's some other language in
5 the bill I didn't see, Senator Nozzolio, it
6 seems to me that it's unfair to hold the state
7 responsible if there are technical mechanisms
8 that are now being used which go around what
9 the technology of the state is, so that we
10 would be creating an insurance policy which I
11 don't think the bill wants to do.
12 So I'm going to support the
13 bill in its current form, although in other
14 situations I think that, Senator Paterson,
15 you're right and we shouldn't take away the
16 liability.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Senator Paterson, do you rise to rebut that
19 testimony?
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Excuse me,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Do you rise to rebut the Senator Gold?
24 SENATOR PATERSON: Absolutely,
25 Mr. President.
3514
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
2 kind of thought you would.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
4 President, if someone brought an action
5 against the state and the action was that the
6 state was derelict in its duty, one of the -
7 one of the constructions of that argument
8 would be that you would have to prove that the
9 state was involved in some kind of duty that
10 was not performed so, for instance, if you
11 wanted to send a letter to Person A, you could
12 send the letter to Person B and have them send
13 the letter to Person A. You would still in a
14 sense harass Person A. You've sent "scare"
15 mail, as Senator Nozzolio has described, but
16 you've done it in a way that would not be -
17 there's no speculation that the state would
18 have had any way to stop you from doing that.
19 So the scam for which the state
20 does not have any responsibility is something
21 that the state can actually -- and I know that
22 Senator Gold has ducked away and is running
23 away from this, because he knows that I'm
24 right and it doesn't matter which side of the
25 aisle he sits on, it's clear.
3515
1 SENATOR GOLD: Speaking from
2 this side of the aisle, I don't agree with you
3 at all.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: But all I'm
5 saying to you is that the general principle
6 that is that a person would have a right to
7 bring an action and at the point that it was
8 raised that it was impossible for the state to
9 actually prevent this, then I think the action
10 would have no cause and would be thrown out,
11 but the general rule I'm just saying, in my
12 opinion, is violated by part of the
13 construction of this bill.
14 What the bill is trying to
15 cure, I think, is something that's long over
16 due.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Read the last section, please.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3.
20 This act shall take effect on the first day of
21 September.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Call the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the
25 roll. )
3516
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
3 The bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 773, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4132, an
6 act to amend the Public Health Law and the
7 Education Law.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER:
9 Explanation.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
11 Senator Hannon, an explanation has been asked
12 for.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Actually,
14 Mr. President, I'll waive the explanation.
15 I believe there's an amendment
16 at the desk we'd ask that be considered. I've
17 served it upon Senator Hannon and told him; I
18 think he knows it's coming.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
20 assume you're waiving the reading.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would,
22 Mr. President. I'd ask that it be waived, the
23 reading of the amendment.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 The amendment is at the desk, Senator. Please
3517
1 explain your amendment.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 This is an amendment we dealt
5 with last year. The amendment deals with a
6 question on Senator Hannon's bill, and he and
7 I have had a number of discussions about
8 this: The question of how do we encourage
9 volunteer physicians to participate in the
10 health care system if, as a consequence of,
11 that they have to pay liability insurance and
12 at least from my perspective, Mr. President,
13 having a volunteer position not be subject to
14 suit is the wrong way to handle the problem.
15 The wrong thing to do is to say
16 to a physician, if you volunteer down in one
17 of the health care facilities in downtown
18 Rochester and you happen to commit malpractice
19 on someone who can't afford to pay, then
20 you're immune from a malpractice action. It
21 just seems to me that what that suggests is
22 that a group of people who don't have
23 significant resources won't be able to recover
24 if they're damaged by someone who commits
25 malpractice.
3518
1 What the amendment seeks to do
2 is to provide malpractice coverage for
3 physicians through our bank of excess
4 liability coverage. We all know we have a
5 system in this state established during the
6 malpractice crisis 10 to 15 years ago in which
7 we set up a reserve system. We surcharged
8 premiums to create an excess liability pool
9 that would cover verdicts in excess of a
10 million dollars, so that a physician in this
11 state only has to buy liability insurance up
12 to $1 million. If there is a verdict in
13 excess of that, the funds are paid out of the
14 excess liability coverage.
15 Now, and I -- perhaps the
16 chairman of the Health Committee would know
17 for sure, but my recollection is that the most
18 recent calculation said there was a billion
19 dollars or more in that account and that this
20 Legislature on previous occasions and other
21 governors have tapped that account to cover
22 general fund expenses.
23 So my suggestion is, since we
24 have this huge pool of liability -- excess
25 liability insurance coverage sitting there,
3519
1 since we know that over the course of the last
2 15 years we haven't significantly drawn down
3 those funds, there's a huge pool of
4 unaccounted for and unused funds that could be
5 used to purchase or to provide general
6 liability and malpractice insurance for
7 physicians who do the good thing which is to
8 provide their services on a volunteer basis.
9 If we did that, we would have a
10 reliable way to provide liability insurance.
11 We wouldn't short change those who need
12 volunteer services rather than paid for
13 services for health care. We would still give
14 them access to a liability fund in the event
15 that the voluntary physician, volunteering
16 physician committed malpractice.
17 So that's the point of this
18 amendment, Mr. President. It's very similar
19 to a system that was proposed in the state of
20 Florida where they have used excess liability
21 pools to provide liability, general liability,
22 malpractice coverage for physicians. I think
23 the chairman of the health committee properly
24 points out that we've got a problem with
25 encouraging volunteer contribution of services
3520
1 by retired physicians. It seems to me that
2 the way to do it is to allow them to tap in
3 the excess liability pool and hopefully give
4 them an incentive to provide coverage for
5 those who need services on a volunteer basis.
6 Thank you, Mr. President. I'd
7 move the amendment and ask for a party vote in
8 the affirmative.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Senator Hannon, on the amendment.
11 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President,
12 on the amendment.
13 Senator Dollinger, you had let
14 me know before you were going to offer an
15 amendment and you said it was something we had
16 discussed last year and I had assumed it was
17 the same amendment as last year, but it's
18 not.
19 Last year you dealt with the
20 scope of who may be in this pool and you dealt
21 with nursing professionals. This topic which
22 was raised but was not the subject of
23 amendment was something I discussed with
24 Senator Leichter.
25 The difficulty with your
3521
1 amendment is it tries to address a fund that
2 really is not available, and even if it were
3 available, I'd have a policy problem, but let
4 me just tell you why it's not available.
5 Before we did the health care
6 deregulation, there was an ongoing revenue
7 stream that fed money into in pool. That was
8 cut off in 1996. The monies for '96, '97, '98
9 are basically coming out of the earnings of
10 interest for the excess. It has been a
11 question as to how close we were going to get
12 and it turns out that we'll probably just have
13 enough to extend it one more year, so that
14 excess program is just barely being contained.
15 Tapping it for any purposes, however laudatory
16 and minimal, may endanger that, so I don't
17 believe it's there.
18 The second point is just on the
19 policy ground, once you start doing primary
20 medical malpractice care for anybody I'm sure
21 there'll be very -- a number of other people
22 who say we have as legitimate an argument as
23 those folks do to be covered. We should do it
24 and then we're into a business if we ever were
25 to do that. We're into a business that we're
3522
1 not in now that the private sector is doing
2 appropriately, et cetera, et cetera.
3 So I don't believe that the
4 mechanics and the workability of this is
5 appropriate, and I would speak against your
6 amendment.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
8 Question is on the amendment. All those in
9 favor of the amendment signify by saying aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 Opposed nay.
12 (Response of "Nay.")
13 The amendment is defeated.
14 On the bill. Read the last
15 section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5.
17 This act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
19 Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the
21 roll. )
22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded
23 in the negative on Calendar Number 773 are
24 Senators Breslin, Dollinger, Gentile,
25 Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Rosado, Smith
3523
1 and Waldon. Excuse me, Senator Onorato in the
2 affirmative. Voting in the negative Senator
3 Connor. Ayes 49, nays 9.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 The bill is passed.
6 SENATOR WALDON: Mr.
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Waldon, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
11 I was elsewhere on Senate business when the
12 house dealt with 757. I would respectfully
13 request unanimous consent to be recorded in
14 the negative on 757, Calendar 757.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
17 Waldon will be recorded in the negative on
18 Calendar Number 757.
19 Senator Maziarz, why do you
20 rise?
21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 Mr. President, I also would
24 like to request unanimous consent to be
25 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
3524
1 642, Senate Bill 6751.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
3 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
4 Maziarz will be recorded in the negative on
5 Calendar Number 642.
6 Senator Balboni, earlier today
7 you had passed a resolution, Resolution Number
8 3519. It's my understanding you wish to open
9 sponsorship of that resolution to other
10 members, is that correct?
11 SENATOR BALBONI: That's
12 correct, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Members
14 who would like to be a co-sponsor of
15 Resolution 3519 -- it is in your Resolution
16 Calendar -- if you would like to notify the
17 desk, Senator Balboni has consented to your
18 being co-sponsors.
19 SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you
20 very much, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
22 Secretary will continue to read the
23 controversial calendar.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 837, by Senator Meier.
3525
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 DeFrancisco.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr.
4 President, I was out of the chamber to vote
5 negative on a couple bills.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
7 objection.
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On
9 Calendar 642 and 757.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
11 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
12 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative
13 on Calendar Number 642 and Calendar Number
14 757.
15 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr.
17 President, if you don't mind, if I could have
18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the
19 negative on Calendar Number 773.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
21 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Gold
22 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
23 Number 773.
24 Senator Leichter, why do you
25 rise?
3526
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr.
2 President. May I also have unanimous consent
3 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
4 773, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
7 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on
8 Calendar Number 773.
9 Secretary will continue to read
10 the controversial calendar.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 837, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5497, an
13 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
14 relation to the forfeiture of bail.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
18 This act shall take effect on the 90th day.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the
22 roll. )
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 bill is passed.
3527
1 Senator Fuschillo, that
2 completes the reading of the controversial
3 calendar.
4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
5 President, may we please return to reports of
6 standing committees and I believe there is a
7 report of the Veterans Committee at the desk.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return
9 to the order of reports of standing
10 committees. Secretary will read the report of
11 the Veterans Committee.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier,
13 from the Committee on Veterans and Military
14 Affairs reports:
15 Senate Print 2706, by Senators
16 Leibell and others, an act to amend the Public
17 Service Law, in relation to utility rates,
18 directly for third reading.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
20 objection, the bill is ordered directly to
21 third reading.
22 Senator Fuschillo.
23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
24 President, is there housekeeping at the desk?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return
3528
1 to the order of motions and resolutions, the
2 Chair recognizes Senator Meier.
3 SENATOR MEIER: Mr. President,
4 on behalf of Senator Marcellino, on page
5 Number 51, I offer the following amendments to
6 Calendar Number 916, Senate Print 7058, and
7 ask that said bill retain its place on the
8 Third Reading Calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
10 Amendments to 916 are received and adopted.
11 The bill will retain its place on the Third
12 Reading Calenda.
13 Senator Stavisky, why do you
14 rise? No? Senator Stavisky passes.
15 Senator Fuschillo.
16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
17 President, there being no further business, I
18 move we adjourn until Wednesday, May 20th, at
19 11:00 a.m.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
21 objection, hearing no objection, the Senate
22 stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday,
23 May 20th, at 11:00 a.m.; tomorrow, May 20th,
24 at 11:00 a.m.
25 (Whereupon at 4:49 p.m., the
3529
1 Senate adjourned.)
2
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