Regular Session - June 2, 1998
3838
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8 ALBANY, NEW YORK
9 June 2, 1998
10 3:04 p.m.
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13 REGULAR SESSION
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17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
18 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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3839
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to
4 find their places, the staff to find their
5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to
6 please rise and join with me in saying the
7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
8 (The assemblage repeated the
9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
10 In the absence of clergy, may we
11 bow our heads in a moment of silence.
12 (A moment of silence was
13 observed.)
14 The reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Monday, June 1st. The Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment, Senator Fuschillo in the Chair upon
18 designation of the Temporary President. The
19 Journal of Sunday, May 31st, was read and
20 approved. On motion, the Senate adjourned.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
22 no objection, the Journal stands approved as
23 read.
24 Presentation of petitions.
25 Messages from the Assembly.
3840
1 Messages from the Governor.
2 Reports of standing committees.
3 Reports of select committees.
4 Communications and reports from
5 state officers.
6 Motions and resolutions.
7 Senator Skelos.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could do
9 the motions at this time and any substitutions
10 that may need to be made.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
12 Meier, a motion?
13 SENATOR MEIER: Mr. President, on
14 behalf of Senator Skelos, I wish to call up bill
15 Print Number 308, recalled from the Assembly,
16 which is now on the desk.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 56, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 308, an act
21 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
22 relation to out-of-state convictions.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Meier.
25 SENATOR MEIER: Mr. President, I
3841
1 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
2 bill was passed.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.
5 (The Secretary called the roll on
6 reconsideration.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Meier.
10 SENATOR MEIER: Mr. President, I
11 now offer the following amendments.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 amendments are received and adopted.
14 The Chair recognizes Senator
15 Fuschillo.
16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 On behalf of Senator Hannon,
19 please remove the sponsor's star on Calendar
20 Number 479.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The star
22 is removed.
23 Senator Fuschillo.
24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On behalf of
25 Senator Padavan, on page number 43, I offer the
3842
1 following amendments to Calendar Number 1075,
2 Senate Print 3192, and ask that said bill retain
3 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 amendments to Calendar Number 1075 are received
6 and adopted and the bill will retain its place
7 on the Third Reading Calendar.
8 Senator Fuschillo.
9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On behalf of
10 Senator Marchi, on page number 7, I offer the
11 following amendments to Calendar Number 243,
12 Senate Print Number 6007-A, and ask that the
13 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
14 Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 amendments to Calendar Number 243 are received
17 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on
18 the Third Reading Calendar.
19 The Secretary will read the
20 substitutions.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 7,
22 Senator Maziarz moves to discharge from the
23 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 5748 and
24 substitute it for the identical Third Reading
25 Calendar 266.
3843
1 On page 20, Senator Cook moves to
2 discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly
3 Bill Number 2578-B and substitute it for the
4 identical Third Reading Calendar 686.
5 On page 22, Senator Trunzo moves
6 to discharge from the Committee on Rules
7 Assembly Bill Number 4790-A and substitute it
8 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 716.
9 On page 25, Senator Skelos moves
10 to discharge from the Committee on Rules
11 Assembly Bill Number 10046-A and substitute it
12 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 774.
13 On page 34, Senator Meier moves
14 to discharge from the Committee on Rules
15 Assembly Bill Number 8834-A and substitute it
16 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 932.
17 On page 40, Senator Marcellino
18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
19 Assembly Bill Number 10253-A and substitute it
20 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1028.
21 And on page 51, Senator LaValle
22 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
23 Assembly Bill Number 10416 and substitute it for
24 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1165.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3844
1 substitutions are ordered.
2 Senator Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
4 if we could return to reports of standing
5 committees, I believe there's a report of the
6 Finance Committee at the desk. I ask that it be
7 read.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
9 return to the report of standing committees.
10 Can we have a little order in the
11 house, please. The staff please take their
12 chairs, the members take their places. If you
13 have to have a conversation, take it out of the
14 chamber.
15 We'll return to the reports of
16 standing committees. The Secretary will read
17 the report of the Finance Committee.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
19 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
20 following nomination: Sheriff of Delaware
21 County, Leonard J. Rutherford, Jr., of Walton.
22 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the
23 confirmation.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
25 question is on the nomination of Leonard J.
3845
1 Rutherford, Jr. to become the sheriff of
2 Delaware County. All those in favor of the
3 nomination indicate by answering aye.
4 (Response of "Aye".)
5 Opposed, nay.
6 (There was no response.)
7 The nominee is confirmed.
8 The Secretary will continue to
9 read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
11 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
12 following nomination: Sheriff of Montgomery
13 County, Michael J. Amato, of Sprakers.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
15 recognizes Senator Farley, on the nomination.
16 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
17 President.
18 I would like to move the
19 nomination of Michael Amato as sheriff of
20 Montgomery County, ably qualified and presently
21 serving.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the
24 nomination?
25 (There was no response.)
3846
1 Hearing none, the question is on
2 the nomination of Michael J. Amato to become the
3 sheriff of Montgomery County. All those in
4 favor of the nomination signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye".)
6 Opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 The nominee is confirmed.
9 The Secretary will continue to
10 read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
12 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
13 following bill direct to third reading:
14 Senate Print 7072-B, by Senator
15 Goodman, an act to amend the Education Law, in
16 relation to student financial aid.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
18 objection, the bill is ordered directly to third
19 reading.
20 Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 there will be an immediate meeting of the
23 Consumer Protection Committee in the Majority
24 Conference Room.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3847
1 Skelos, I couldn't hear you. Will the members
2 please take their chairs, the staff remove
3 themselves from the chamber if you're going to
4 have a conversation. Can we have it quiet in
5 the chamber.
6 Senator Skelos, for an
7 announcement.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
9 there will be an immediate meeting of the
10 Consumer Protection Committee in the Majority
11 Conference Room.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
13 will be an immediate meeting of the Consumer
14 Protection Committee, immediate meeting of the
15 Consumer Protection Committee in the Majority
16 Conference Room, Room 332.
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
19 if we could take up the non-controversial
20 calendar.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the non-controversial
23 calendar.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 411, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 332-A, an
3848
1 act to amend the Social Services Law, in
2 relation to access to certain conviction
3 records.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect on the 120th day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 424, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6119-A, an
16 act to amend the Public Officers Law, in
17 relation to the qualification for deputy
18 sheriffs.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3849
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 519, by Senator Velella -
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill
7 aside for the day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside for the day.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 580, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3982-A, an
12 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
13 determination.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 627, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4227-A, an
3850
1 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
2 relation to including cooperatively owned home
3 dwelling units.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
5 Secretary will read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Skelos.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: For some reason
12 it's very noisy today, and I'm not able to hear
13 you think.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Maybe
15 because I'm not thinking.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: You're not
17 thinking. All right. If we could just have
18 some order so we can move expeditiously through
19 the calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Skelos raises a good point. Ask the members to
22 contain themselves. Be as reticent as you can.
23 Still think.
24 That means you, Senator Maziarz.
25 Call the roll -- read the last
3851
1 section on Calendar Number 627.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 711, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6433, an
12 act to amend the Public Housing Law, in relation
13 to sale or lease.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
15 Secretary will read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 725, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5962, an
3852
1 act to permit the reopening of the optional
2 20-year retirement plan.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
4 a home rule message at the desk.
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 736, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6954, an
10 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation
11 to establishing.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 745, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6880, an
24 act to amend Chapter 161 of the Laws of 1970.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
3853
1 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 762, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1987, an
13 act to amend the County Law and the Judiciary
14 Law, in relation to compensation of assigned
15 counsel.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
19 act shall take effect on the first day of
20 October.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3854
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 765, by member of the Assembly Magee, Assembly
4 Print Number 9686, an act to amend the General
5 Municipal Law, in relation to the publishing of
6 notices.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 768, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6595, an
18 act to amend the Volunteer Firefighters Benefit
19 Law, in relation to the payment.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect July 1.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
25 roll.
3855
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 789, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6939, an act
7 to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in
8 relation to penalties.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 828, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3543, an
21 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
22 possession of a loaded firearm.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3856
1 act shall take effect on the first day of
2 November.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 831, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3785-A, an
11 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
12 relation to motion to dismiss.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Secretary will read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect in 90 days.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 838, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5624, an
25 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
3857
1 sentencing of persistent violent felony
2 offenders.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4 Secretary will read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
6 act shall take effect on the first day of
7 November.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
12 the negatives; announce the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 1,
14 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 853, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7277-A, an
19 act to amend the Social Services Law and the Tax
20 Law, in relation to providing.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
22 Secretary will read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3858
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 863, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 5984, an
8 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law,
9 in relation to corporations.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
11 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary
12 will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 880, by Senator Libous, Senate -
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
24 Holland -- excuse me. Senator Holland, why do
25 you rise?
3859
1 SENATOR HOLLAND: There's an
2 immediate meeting of the Civil Service and
3 Pensions Committee in Room 332.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
5 will be an immediate meeting of the Civil
6 Service and Pensions Committee in the Majority
7 Conference Room, Room 332. An immediate meeting
8 of the Civil Service and Pensions Committee in
9 the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
10 The Secretary will continue to
11 read the non-controversial calendar.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 880, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5554-B, an
14 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
15 workers' compensation classification.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
19 act shall take effect in 180 days.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
25 is passed.
3860
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 891, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6973, an
3 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation
4 to the age requirement.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
9 bill aside at the request of the Senator
10 Dollinger.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 938, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 7417, an
13 act to amend the State Finance Law, in relation
14 to permitting.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3861
1 996, by Senator Saland, Senate Print -
2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay the bill
3 aside for the day.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
5 bill aside for the day at the request of the
6 Majority Leader.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1022, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6561, an
9 act authorizing the assessor of the county of
10 Nassau to accept.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 Secretary will read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
19 the negatives; announce the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 2,
21 Senators Cook and Dollinger recorded in the
22 negative.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3862
1 1028, substituted earlier today, by member of
2 the Assembly Sidikman, Assembly Print 10253-A,
3 an act in relation to the appointment of a
4 second acting village justice.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1040, by Senator Seward -
17 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay the bill
18 aside for the day, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
20 bill aside for the day at the request of the
21 Majority Leader.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1042, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6544, an
24 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation
25 to exempting.
3863
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect in 90 days.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1044, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7448-A, an
13 act to direct the Commissioner of Taxation and
14 Finance to prepare a study.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Secretary will read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
23 is passed.
24 Senator Wright, to explain his
25 vote?
3864
1 SENATOR WRIGHT: Explain my vote,
2 Mr. President. Thank you.
3 I would like to commend Senator
4 Seward on this legislation this afternoon. He
5 was particularly receptive to an amendment that
6 I offered that included real property tax
7 provisions in the study of the impact of the
8 energy -- electric deregulation in the state.
9 I represent Oswego, the city of
10 Oswego, in Oswego County that will lose upwards
11 of 70 percent of their property tax base as a
12 result of deregulation of this field. That's
13 but one example of what will impact a number of
14 communities across this state.
15 So I'm very pleased to see the
16 Senator put forward this legislation as chair of
17 the Energy Committee. I'm very pleased to vote
18 in favor of it.
19 Thank you.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
21 Senator Wright in the affirmative on Calendar
22 Number 1044. Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
25 is passed.
3865
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1046, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 7167, an
3 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law,
4 in relation to making technical corrections.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6 Secretary will read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1051, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 7419, an
17 act to amend the Executive Law and the Social
18 Services Law, in relation to making reports.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
22 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3866
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1081, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 55...
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
8 bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1084, by Senator Breslin, Senate Print 6468-B,
11 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the
12 income tax liability.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 Secretary read the title to Calendar Number 1084
15 in error. I'll ask the Secretary to read the
16 title again.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1084, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 6468-B, an
19 act to amend the Tax Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
21 Secretary will read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
25 roll.
3867
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1113, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6662,
7 an act to amend the Parks, Recreation and
8 Historic Preservation Law, in relation to works
9 of art.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 Secretary will read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
13 act shall take effect on the first day of
14 September.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1115, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6240, an
23 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in
24 relation to certain claims against the
25 agricultural producers.
3868
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1126, by Senator Present, Senate Print 3753, an
13 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
14 relation to exempting information.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
16 please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
18 bill aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1133, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6815, an
21 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
22 relation to the general powers.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 Secretary will read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3869
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1159, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4787, an act
10 authorizing the State University of New York to
11 lease and contract.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
13 Secretary will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1162, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6091, an
24 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
25 fostering compliance.
3870
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect -
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
7 bill aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1174, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7458 -
10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside
11 for the day.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
13 bill aside for the day at the request of the
14 Majority Leader.
15 Senator DeFrancisco, why do you
16 rise?
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I have
18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
19 on 891.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
21 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
22 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative on
23 Calendar Number -- you said 891, Senator
24 DeFrancisco?
25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I did.
3871
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That
2 bill, I believe, was laid aside and not acted
3 upon yet.
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Nice
6 try.
7 Senator Holland, if we might get
8 a little order first, then I assume I'll
9 recognize you to proceed. Will the members
10 please take their chairs, the staff please take
11 their seats.
12 Senator Holland, that completes
13 the reading of the controversial calendar -- the
14 non-controversial calendar. Excuse me.
15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Can we have the
16 controversial calendar now, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
18 Secretary will read the non-controversial
19 calendar -- I'll try that again. The Secretary
20 will read the controversial calendar.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 725, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5962, an
23 act to permit the reopening of the optional
24 20-year retirement plan.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
3872
1 a home rule message at the desk.
2 Senator Saland, an explanation
3 has been requested by, I believe, Senator
4 Dollinger.
5 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
6 this bill has been requested by the village of
7 Red Hook, the purpose of which is to enable one
8 Rexford L. Maine to have the opportunity to
9 avail himself of the reopening of the 20-year
10 optional retirement plan.
11 Apparently through no fault of
12 Mr. Maine's he had made application to the
13 retirement system and apparently for reasons
14 unbeknownst to anybody they never received his
15 application. That application was made some
16 seven or eight years ago and the village mayor
17 has sent me a letter to that effect as has the
18 village attorney, and the legislation has been
19 introduced at their request.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Leichter.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, just
24 very briefly, on the bill.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3873
1 Leichter, on the bill.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't want
3 to deny this fine individual or anybody else
4 pension benefits they're entitled to. I just
5 make a plea that's been made particularly well
6 by Senator Gold and at other times I joined in,
7 that we ought to have a procedure for handling
8 these, that these should not be determined by
9 the Legislature because we have absolutely no
10 means to assess the accuracy of the statements
11 that are made and, frankly, the cost to the
12 taxpayers of our passing these bills often
13 exceeds the amount involved in the pension.
14 We did have such a procedure
15 through the comptroller's office which seemed to
16 work. Apparently that law has expired. It
17 certainly ought to be renewed. I understand the
18 problems not so much with this house but in the
19 Assembly, but I think it's unfortunate that we
20 keep on getting these bills before us and having
21 to act on issues and facts that really we have
22 no knowledge of and no way of making an accurate
23 determination.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Dollinger.
3874
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2 President, just on the bill.
3 I echo the sentiments of Senator
4 Leichter. I'm somewhat surprised to hear that
5 the bill -- did I understand you correctly,
6 Senator, that the bill that we passed had
7 allowed the retirement system to make these
8 adjudications on a case-by-case basis to prevent
9 the exact problem we run into here.
10 First of all, it takes up
11 legislative time and, two, it sets up that
12 unique situation in which a local official who's
13 got local friends in office gets his pension
14 problem remedied at taxpayer expense and the
15 occasional employee who may be outside the
16 political process may not be enrolled in the
17 right political process party, may not be a
18 member of the right group, ends up on the short
19 end of the stick. I thought the whole purpose
20 of our reform ably carried by Senator Trunzo
21 seven years ago -- several years ago was to
22 prevent exactly what's happening here.
23 I'm going to adopt a policy with
24 respect to these kinds of bills. I'm going to
25 vote against them until we go back to the old
3875
1 system. Let the pension system decide whether,
2 through no negligence of his own, he was -- he
3 failed to apply the papers. If the town did not
4 do the paperwork, this individual shouldn't have
5 to carry that cross, but I would rather have an
6 adjudication on those through the system that we
7 set up several years ago rather than do it under
8 this system on the basis of who knows who, who
9 knows their Senator, who knows their local
10 officials.
11 Senator Saland's doing the right
12 thing for his constituent here and the right
13 thing for this individual perhaps, but the real
14 thing to do is to set up a system that takes
15 these out of the political process entirely and
16 adjudicates them on the basis of fairness or the
17 negligence of the town officials that make these
18 applications.
19 I'll be voting in the negative,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
22 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
23 (There was no response.)
24 Hearing none, the Secretary will
25 read the last section.
3876
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
7 the negatives; announce the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 1,
9 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
11 is passed.
12 The Secretary will continue to
13 read the controversial calendar.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 891, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6973, an
16 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation
17 to the age requirement.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 Secretary will read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Dollinger, why do you rise?
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to
25 explain my vote, Mr. President.
3877
1 This is -
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Dollinger, to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
8 President, just so I make sure, this is Senator
9 Hannon's bill on the age requirement for the
10 police officers?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
12 Number 891, Senate 6973, by Senator Hannon.
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's
14 correct.
15 Mr. President, I just rise, I'm
16 going to vote in favor of this bill. I know
17 there have been a lot of questions asked about
18 what provisions apply with respect to minimum
19 hiring ages for police officers. I'm willing to
20 pick 29 and I guess I'll agree with Senator
21 Hannon and pick 29 but, frankly, I think this is
22 something that we should have a little more
23 study on because is it 29, 28, 30, 31; should it
24 vary depending on the physical circumstances of
25 the applicant? This plunges us into an area of
3878
1 law that's been hotly contested, that is,
2 whether there can be minimum ages of requirement
3 -- as a requirement for hiring by our State
4 Police, by other state agencies.
5 I'll abide with Senator Hannon's
6 determination that 29 is the right year to pick,
7 but it seems to me that we may be inviting a ton
8 of litigation over this very issue.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.
11 Announce the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 1,
13 Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
15 is passed.
16 The Secretary will continue to
17 read the controversial calendar.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1081, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print -
20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside
21 temporarily, please, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
23 bill aside temporarily.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1126, by Senator Present, Senate Print 3753, an
3879
1 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
2 relation to exempting.
3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:
5 Explanation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
7 Present, an explanation of Calendar Number 1120,
8 Senate 3753, has been requested by both the
9 Acting Minority Leader and Senator Oppenheimer.
10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
11 this legislation is introduced at the request of
12 the Environmental Facilities Corporation.
13 The purpose of the legislation is
14 to ensure the confidentiality of information
15 furnished by small businesses to the New York
16 State Environmental Facilities Corporation in
17 connection with the Environmental Facilities
18 Corporation provisions of a multi-media
19 environmental assistance program.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Oppenheimer.
22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you.
23 I'll just speak on the bill.
24 I'll speak on the bill, because I think -
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3880
1 Oppenheimer, excuse me just a minute.
2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I know it's
3 a little hard to hear me.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I can't
5 hear -- hello.
6 Senator Oppenheimer -- Senator
7 Oppenheimer, just a minute. There are a lot of
8 members talking, moving. Will the members
9 please take their seats, the staff take their
10 places.
11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I
12 understand what the bill is trying to do, but I
13 think it's a very bad precedent that we would be
14 getting into.
15 We're saying to small business,
16 please come and participate in this state
17 program which will give you all kinds of
18 information on how to comply with our
19 environmental regulations and our laws and we're
20 saying in exchange for your coming forward, you
21 don't have to reveal any information. It will
22 all be closed. That will be the end of anyone
23 ever seeing your files.
24 That seems to fly in the face of
25 the fact that we sort of have told the taxpayers
3881
1 of this state that we believe in open
2 government. We believe in the availability of
3 governmental records and here we're saying we
4 are closing our government files and nobody can
5 see them and I mean we are already giving money
6 and assistance to these corporations in order to
7 comply with our laws.
8 So why we are now saying, well,
9 if you comply with our -- if you come forward,
10 we'll see that your files are closed forever,
11 nobody has to see them. I think it's a terrible
12 precedent. We already say that important trade
13 secrets are exempt from the FOIL Law, the
14 Freedom of Information Law and, therefore, the
15 only thing I can think that these companies are
16 wanting to hide is their violations of our
17 environmental regulation and law.
18 I see no reason to say to them
19 that you can violate the law, take our
20 assistance and there will be no scrutiny,
21 nothing will follow after that, and it's a
22 terrible precedent to start.
23 I would also say that many people
24 joined me last time we discussed this issue, and
25 I think I will mention who they are so they can
3882
1 be reminded and that Senators Abate, Connor,
2 Dollinger, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz,
3 Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson, Santiago and
4 Seabrook, Gold, Smith, also Senators Goodman,
5 Leibell and Levy -- yes, I didn't mean that -
6 and I think to say that we will be secretive in
7 this compact with small businesses who come
8 forth for our assistance is contrary to what we
9 believe in this state.
10 So I'll be voting no. Also EPL
11 has it down as two smokestacks.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
13 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Present, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President,
18 I would like to contradict what was just said.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Present, on the bill.
21 SENATOR PRESENT: In 1994 the
22 Legislature recognized a similar problem so
23 we're not setting a precedent. "With the small
24 business assistance program, which was part of
25 the small business stationary source technical
3883
1 and environmental compliance assistance, a
2 program being stifled by the fear of future
3 regulatory action, the Legislature exempted
4 information provided by small business from FOIL
5 in Chapter 700 of the Laws of 1994."
6 I think that by opposing this
7 bill we're stifling those small businesses who
8 want to comply and are going to the Facilities
9 Corporation for assistance and guidance in how
10 to bring themselves into compliance and you are
11 just keeping it under the rug. Let them provide
12 the information knowing that it's going to be
13 confidential and move on and clean up our air
14 and waters.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Dollinger, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
19 me, Senator Oppenheimer. Senator Dollinger was
20 next in line here.
21 Senator Dollinger, why do you
22 rise?
23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
24 President, I'm willing to yield to Senator
25 Oppenheimer.
3884
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Dollinger, do you wish the floor?
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would yield
4 to Senator Oppenheimer.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Dollinger, do you wish the floor at this point?
7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I do. I wish
8 to be recognized.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Dollinger.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could I now
12 yield to Senator Oppenheimer?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No.
14 Senator Dollinger, do you wish the floor or
15 not?
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll take the
17 floor, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Dollinger.
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator
21 Present would yield to a question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Present, do you yield to a question from Senator
24 Dollinger? The Senator yields.
25 SENATOR PRESENT: Certainly.
3885
1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I
2 understand it, Senator Present, this refers to
3 containing information supplied by the small
4 business to the corporation but the records that
5 will actually be exempt are information -- is
6 information that's funded by the state of New
7 York, is that correct?
8 SENATOR PRESENT: No, I don't
9 believe that's true. The small business and -
10 the small business in this is referred to as one
11 who employs less than 100 people. They provide
12 the information of what they're doing, what
13 their needs are to meet a new regulation, a
14 stricter combination of regulations to meet the
15 air quality and water qualities of New York
16 State.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
18 you, Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Present, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Senator continues to yield.
24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So I
25 understand the process, Senator Present, someone
3886
1 applies for state money for multi-media
2 environmental assistance which includes studies,
3 investigations and analyses, technical
4 assistance, advice and related activities that
5 are provided to the small business by the
6 Economic Development Corporation, correct, or by
7 the Environmental Facilities Corporation?
8 SENATOR PRESENT: Correct.
9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's
10 correct. So this is all state money that we
11 expend to help the small business, correct?
12 (Senator Present nods head.)
13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And such
14 multi-media environmental assistance involves
15 either hazardous waste, solid waste, air
16 emissions and water discharges, is that
17 correct?
18 SENATOR PRESENT: Correct.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And the -
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Dollinger.
22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
23 President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Present, do you continue to yield? The Senator
3887
1 continues to yield.
2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And what this
3 intends to do is to say that the information
4 given to us by the small business which we then
5 incorporate into those studies, in other words,
6 we spend taxpayer money to do all of those
7 studies, that that information that the small
8 business gives us is exempt from disclosure?
9 SENATOR PRESENT: Correct.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: How can -
11 through you, Mr. President, if Senator -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Present, do you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator continues to yield.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: How can
18 someone determine whether the state's money has
19 been properly spent without knowing what the
20 small business -- what the information that the
21 small business has given them about their solid
22 waste, hazardous waste, air emissions and water
23 discharges? How can you judge whether it's been
24 properly spent?
25 SENATOR PRESENT: I think we
3888
1 leave those up to the administration of the
2 program.
3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
4 you, Mr. President, if Senator Present -
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Present, do you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senator continues to yield.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In other
11 words, just so I make sure I understand it. The
12 small business gives us a lot of information
13 about all of these environmental issues. We
14 spend a chunk of money developing technical
15 assistance for them based on what they tell us
16 and we produce a report or a multi-media
17 environmental assistance, whatever it may be.
18 My question is, how can a
19 watchdog or the government or anyone determine
20 whether that money has been properly spent, the
21 people's tax money has been properly spent
22 without being able for the public to know what
23 information was given by the small business and
24 if there's a qualification -- for example, if
25 there's a qualification, you have to have such
3889
1 and such a problem in order to qualify for the
2 grant. You have to have a water discharge
3 problem or an air emission problem and the small
4 business gives a bunch of data to the state of
5 New York and says, I want technical assistance
6 and then someone in the Department of
7 Environmental Facilities Corporation says, we'll
8 give you that assistance. The question is did
9 they qualify? How could the public make a
10 judgment as to whether or not they qualified if
11 they didn't know what the information was that
12 was supplied by the small business? They
13 couldn't, could they?
14 SENATOR PRESENT: No.
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay.
16 Through you, Mr. President, on the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Dollinger, on the bill.
19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate
20 Senator Oppenheimer's guidance with respect to
21 the environmental issues that may be involved
22 here, but quite candidly, Senator Present, it
23 seems there's a fiscally conservative reason to
24 be against this bill too, which is that when
25 someone provides data to the state of New York
3890
1 and the state of New York takes that data and
2 spends public money, not my money, not your
3 money, everybody's money, to help that business,
4 be it big or small, to comply with state and
5 federal laws, to comply with regulations, it
6 seems to me that subject to the trade secret
7 protections, subject to the protections which
8 are already in the Freedom of Information Act,
9 which are time tested, challenged in the courts,
10 reasonably well established in this state,
11 subject to those restrictions, that is, we won't
12 give away their trade secrets, it seems to me
13 you strip away from the public the ability to
14 determine whether the money's properly spent if
15 you don't allow them to determine whether the
16 small businesses met the threshold.
17 That's what I've heard on the
18 floor today and it seems to me that a good
19 fiscal conservative would stand there and say,
20 well, the public should be able to find out what
21 the small business gave to the state of New York
22 to determine whether it properly expended its
23 money in technical assistance.
24 It seems to me it's not an
25 unusual request to simply require that subject
3891
1 to trade secrets, if it's something that should
2 be protected under the law, it already is, but
3 for the most part, that information should be
4 available to anyone that wants to find out
5 whether the public's money is being properly
6 spent.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Secretary will read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
15 the negatives and announce the results when
16 tabulated. Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
18 the negative on Calendar Number 1126 are
19 Senators Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, Gold,
20 Kruger, Lachman, Leibell, Leichter, Markowitz,
21 Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato,
22 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Seabrook, Smith,
23 Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 39, nays 20.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
25 is passed.
3892
1 Senator Mendez, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I
3 was out of the chamber. I wish to have
4 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative
5 on bill Calendar Number 853.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
7 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Holland
8 -- excuse me-- Senator Mendez will be recorded
9 in the negative on Calendar Number 853.
10 Senator Waldon, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I
12 respectfully request to be recorded in the
13 negative on Calendar Number 838. I was out of
14 the chamber on other necessary business on
15 behalf of the people.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
17 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Waldon
18 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
19 Number 838.
20 The Secretary will read Calendar
21 Number 1081 on the controversial calendar.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1081, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5523, an
24 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law,
25 in relation to modifying the list.
3893
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
2 Secretary will read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
4 This act -
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
7 me. Senator Padavan, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
9 I would simply like to comment on the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Padavan.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you.
13 What this bill would allow is if
14 a bar, a liquor license was given -
15 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President,
16 excuse me. Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
18 Goodman, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: I rise because
20 I believe an explanation was requested of the
21 bill, and I would like to explain.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: An
23 explanation has not been requested, but if
24 Senator Padavan would like to request -
25 SENATOR PADAVAN: I defer to
3894
1 Senator Goodman.
2 SENATOR GOODMAN: I think that it
3 might be well if the sponsor explained this
4 bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Goodman, an explanation has been requested.
7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you. I'm
8 honored.
9 Mr. President, this bill is
10 brought before us at the request of the
11 Governor. It's a program bill and it comes from
12 the State Liquor Authority. It's an act to
13 amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in
14 relation to modifying the list of instances when
15 the alteration of a licensed premises must be
16 approved by the State Liquor Authority.
17 It eliminates the requirement
18 that an application to alter a licensed premises
19 be filed with and approved by the State Liquor
20 Authority when any physical change to the
21 exterior of the licensed premises involves the
22 creation or relocation of any window or door,
23 any change in the physical structure that
24 existed at the time of licensing and any
25 enlargement or contraction of dining or kitchen
3895
1 facilities is occurring.
2 The existing law provides that if
3 the alterations described above as well as any
4 alteration reduces visibility or any change in
5 the interior of a licensed premises that
6 materially affects the character of the premises
7 and in cases of premises licensed for on-premise
8 consumption, any change in the size or location
9 of any bar may not be effectuated until an
10 application is filed.
11 In short, this is an effort to
12 cut red tape and to permit alterations to be
13 made without an attenuated bureaucratic
14 procedure which often the result is great delay
15 and great financial hardship to the owners of
16 bars and for that reason, yes, I would like to
17 yield to Senator Padavan.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Padavan.
20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr.
21 President.
22 Senator Goodman's reading of the
23 bill engenders a very significant contradiction
24 in terms of what this bill would do.
25 To put it in a context that I
3896
1 think might be more understandable, if a
2 premises were to seek a license, an
3 establishment that would be predominantly a
4 restaurant where perhaps 80 percent of the floor
5 space would be dining tables with an entrance
6 that would be appropriate to that type of
7 facility, and a recommendation which is
8 requested by the SLA from the local governing
9 body in the city of New York, its community
10 planning boards outside the city of New York,
11 its other local entities, they would take a look
12 at that configuration and perhaps within the
13 area specified feel it would be appropriate.
14 Now, in the city of New York we
15 have many commercial strips surrounded one side
16 or the other by residences, sometimes private
17 homes, sometimes apartments and where the
18 Community Planning Board might look with favor
19 upon a restaurant opening up, where alcoholic
20 beverages is a small component but obviously an
21 appropriate one, under this provision, after
22 such a proprietor would get a license, a year
23 later he would be allowed to eliminate virtually
24 all of the dining and turn it into a
25 full-fledged bar, change the entrance, change
3897
1 the awning, do all of those things, even though
2 the remaining law talks about the character of
3 the establishment. The contradiction there is
4 obvious. That place would have a remarkable
5 change in character.
6 In the city of New York taverns
7 or bars are allowed to stay open and serve to
8 4:00 a.m. Before they empty out, the sun is
9 rising and in many communities too many bars and
10 activities associated with them are a problem.
11 It would seem to me that if a
12 change of the type that I describe were to take
13 place, that the local governing body or the
14 Community Planning Board of the city of New York
15 should have an opportunity to be notified and to
16 comment and that's why I feel this bill does not
17 make sense and would be unwise to enact.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Goodman.
22 SENATOR GOODMAN: May I respond
23 briefly to Senator Padavan by simply reminding
24 him that earlier this year, Senator, we passed
25 Senate Bill 3680 which was signed into law by
3898
1 the Governor and one of the provisions of that
2 bill prevented, first of all, the -- it removed
3 the restrictions on on-premise licensees having
4 any covering preventing a clear view into the
5 premises from the sidewalks. It would also
6 remove the restrictions on swinging doors,
7 boxes, stalls, partitions or any obstructions
8 that prevent a full view of the entire room by
9 any person present. Now, while it's not
10 directly related to the present bill, this bill
11 would permit licensees to make the changes now
12 already permitted without application to the
13 State Liquor Authority for approval.
14 So what's at stake here is not
15 whether they have permission to make changes but
16 rather whether it's necessary in making these
17 changes to apply to the State Liquor Authority
18 for approval.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, would
20 you yield to a question?
21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yeah, sure.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR PADAVAN: In the bill,
25 without any input from anyone, without there
3899
1 having to go back to the SLA which would then
2 involve obviously a public awareness, under your
3 bill, they could make any enlargement or
4 contraction of dining and kitchen facilities,
5 meaning that they could virtually eliminate the
6 dining room leaving perhaps a couple tables and
7 turn that establishment into a full-fledged bar
8 in every respect and all the problems that some
9 of them engender particularly in residential
10 communities. That's what this bill does.
11 It also says it would provide for
12 an opportunity for the owner to make any
13 physical -- any physical change to the exterior
14 of the licensed premise that involves the
15 creation or relocation of any window or door.
16 So where you might have a very tasteful entrance
17 to an acceptable restaurant, now you have
18 something quite different which a community
19 might find objectionable.
20 So with due respect to the
21 statute that you referred to that was signed by
22 the Governor, we are dealing with the bill
23 before us now and this bill presents problems
24 and would present problems in communities that I
25 represent that currently are attempting,
3900
1 sometimes successfully, sometimes
2 unsuccessfully, to deal with a proliferation of
3 bars and taverns and the problems that some of
4 them produce.
5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
7 recognizes Senator Gold.
8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you.
9 Mr. President, I have great
10 respect for my colleague from Queens, but I
11 think he's misreading this bill and I intend to
12 support Senator Goodman's bill.
13 The section of law that we're
14 dealing with is a section which was amended a
15 number years ago and I'm glad to say that I
16 carried that law, which said that if you had
17 smaller alterations, we would not have to bother
18 the Liquor Authority at all.
19 Now the Liquor Authority, which
20 is overworked and which is trying to get its
21 ducks in order, says that this is one area where
22 they don't have to be bothered. If you're
23 making alterations and you are not changing the
24 character, there was always concerns about
25 whether you could see in a premises and Senator
3901
1 Goodman protects that in his language and it
2 seems to me if an agency which should be
3 protecting the public as Senator Padavan points
4 out is telling us that there is some kind of
5 paperwork that they don't need done in order to
6 protect the public so their employees can spend
7 more time weeding out the bad premises and
8 weeding out organized crime or all the things
9 that people talk about, giving them more time to
10 handle enforcement provisions of the law, I
11 don't know why we should be fighting the
12 Governor and fighting this agency.
13 There are many of us over the
14 years, and Senator Goodman, I'm glad to say is
15 one of them, who have tried very hard to get
16 this agency into such a condition that it takes
17 care of that industry, protects the good people
18 in the industry and weeds out the bad.
19 I think that Senator Padavan is
20 someone who is concerned and I respect that, but
21 I think it is really stretching this bill out of
22 proportion to think that this is going to do
23 damage to the communities. It defines what is
24 substantial in terms of changes. If there are
25 substantial changes, certain things have to be
3902
1 done.
2 Under the law that was amended
3 prior to this, we said that even if it wasn't
4 more than $10,000, you had to make an
5 application if it was certain kinds of things.
6 All Senator Goodman's bill does
7 is to help save some paperwork that the Liquor
8 Authority itself believes is unnecessary.
9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
10 will Senator Gold yield to a question?
11 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Gold, do you yield to a question?
14 SENATOR GOLD: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, if
18 I've heard you once, I've heard you a thousand
19 times make a statement that let's read the bill
20 and go by the words on -- thereon and what we
21 are about to vote on.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Is that the
23 question?
24 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. It's a
25 preface to the question. So now I'm going to
3903
1 ask you to read the bill. Any physical change
2 to the exterior, any. That could be anything.
3 Any change in the structure that existed at the
4 time of the licensing and any enlargement or
5 contraction.
6 Now, I would suggest to you that
7 that's a big barn door to go through and
8 whatever -
9 SENATOR GOLD: What about the
10 rest of the language?
11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, the
12 rest of the language, you can read it if you
13 wish.
14 SENATOR GOLD: But the rest of
15 the -
16 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm pointing
17 out -
18 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry.
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: If you want me
20 to read the entire bill, I will.
21 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm pointing
23 out to you the areas that I perceive or the
24 communities that I represent as potential
25 problems. When you, in effect, can allow a
3904
1 licensed premise, which is unique in many ways
2 in terms of what goes on and the fact that a
3 full-fledged bar, as you know, the city of New
4 York, is open to 4:00 a.m. as I discussed
5 earlier and things of that sort, if you are
6 allowing them in an unlimited fashion to go from
7 what might be primarily a restaurant to now
8 primarily a bar in a commercial strip surrounded
9 by residences, I think you have something that's
10 significant and all we are allowing -- all I'm
11 actually asking for is for there to be notice of
12 that change.
13 We're not prohibiting it. I'm
14 not saying that they can't do it, but what this
15 bill does, it eliminates any public awareness of
16 these potential changes by the licensee, and I
17 think that's fundamentally wrong.
18 If they were -- if they were
19 allowed to be aware of it, if they were allowed
20 the opportunity for input at the outset, when a
21 significant change is made, I think they are
22 entitled to the same opportunity.
23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
24 didn't hear the question mark, but I would be
25 glad to respond to it.
3905
1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, there is
2 one.
3 SENATOR GOLD: I'll be glad to
4 respond.
5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Put it wherever
6 you wish.
7 SENATOR GOLD: Good. Senator,
8 the reason why I wanted you to read the whole
9 bill is because if you read all the language,
10 you'll find out that this bill does no damage.
11 This bill starts out by saying if
12 you're going to make a substantial alteration,
13 you must file with the Liquor Authority.
14 Senator Goodman doesn't change that. He doesn't
15 change it at all, but it says under the old law
16 that a substantial change will be a change, et
17 cetera, et cetera, that affects visibility and
18 what Senator Goodman is saying is as long as
19 you're not affecting the visibility, which is
20 what the Liquor Authority always was concerned
21 about -- the Liquor Authority was concerned that
22 if you had a premises, they could walk along the
23 street and look into the premises and make sure
24 that the activities were legal. That's what it
25 was all about. So they didn't want you to be
3906
1 able to change doors or windows because you
2 might be able to obstruct Liquor Authority
3 employees from doing their job. Senator Goodman
4 takes care of that. Senator Goodman leaves in
5 language that says "that reduces the visibility
6 that exists at the time of the licensing." So
7 he takes care of that.
8 Then it goes on and talks about
9 certain physical changes but he leaves in the
10 words which say that -- where is it -- "or any
11 changes in the" -- et cetera, et cetera -- hold
12 it -- "that changes the character of the
13 premises."
14 So the point of the matter is
15 that all that's been done here is Senator
16 Goodman protects the character of the premises.
17 He protects that if you make a substantial
18 change, you must file with the Liquor
19 Authority. That is not changed under this law.
20 All it's saying is if you make certain kinds of
21 changes and they are not substantial and they
22 don't exceed $10,000, you don't have to do the
23 paperwork. There's nothing wrong with that
24 amendment.
25 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President.
3907
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Padavan, why do you rise?
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator Gold,
4 would you yield?
5 Senator Gold, I heard you and I
6 read that part of the bill and you were here
7 when I first commented. I said there's a
8 contradiction in this bill and the contradiction
9 lies between what you just read, change in the
10 character and what is permitted by the bill.
11 My question to you is simply
12 this: If you are allowed to enlarge or contract
13 without any limitations, which is what this bill
14 provides for, there is no limitation either in
15 dollar value or in square footage. Is that not
16 significant in terms of a change?
17 If you were allowed to change the
18 entrance irrespective of the window, is that not
19 significant? If you were allowed to make a
20 physical change that involves the creation or
21 relocation of any window or door, is that not a
22 significant change? And some, Senator, are not
23 these provisions that are allowed if this became
24 law significant in nature?
25 SENATOR GOLD: The answer is no
3908
1 and I'll explain why. If somebody has a door to
2 a premises and they change that door for under
3 $10,000, they have not ruined the community, all
4 right? All this bill says is that under
5 existing law, even if the change of the door
6 would have cost $3,000, you have to bother the
7 Liquor Authority.
8 What Senator Goodman is saying is
9 if you're not affecting the visibility in the
10 premises and you're not spending more than
11 $10,000, who cares if the change the bill?
12 This bill also says something
13 else. Under existing law, you are not permitted
14 to change the size of a bar in a restaurant no
15 matter how much it costs. So you have somebody
16 and they've got a six-foot bar, they want to
17 make it seven feet, maybe adding that one foot
18 costs $500, under consist existing law, you have
19 to go to the Liquor Authority. Senator Goodman
20 says if you're not spending more than $10,000
21 and if you're not affecting the overall
22 character, you don't have to go. There's no
23 contradiction in Senator Goodman's bill.
24 Senator Goodman's bill is
25 protecting the community. It's protecting the
3909
1 character of the establishment. It is
2 protecting the $10,000 limit. It's just saying
3 that instead of specifying some specifics, which
4 are no longer important and which would cut back
5 on the paperwork, this bill from the Authority,
6 the Pataki-Goodman-Gold bill does really no harm
7 and from here on ask Goodman to answer the
8 questions.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
10 Secretary will read the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2.
12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
13 President, may I be heard on the bill?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
15 me. Senator Dollinger, do you wish to speak on
16 the bill?
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
18 President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
20 Dollinger, on the bill.
21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I rise to
22 support my colleague from Queens. He's right on
23 the nose again and that's why I'm going to vote
24 with Senator Padavan, because the way I read the
25 bill, what it says is it says that you can
3910
1 change the character of a licensed premises from
2 largely a restaurant to largely a bar without
3 the kind of community notice and notification
4 that you need.
5 I think that's a significant
6 change. I think it affects the neighborhoods.
7 It certainly affects the neighborhoods in the
8 19th ward in the city of Rochester where I live.
9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Gold, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR GOLD: Will the
13 distinguished gentleman from Rochester yield to
14 a question?
15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Absolutely,
16 Mr. President.
17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, is it
18 your position that under existing law if someone
19 in your community who had a restaurant, without
20 spending a dime, decided not to use those tables
21 and, without spending a dime, decided that they
22 wanted to have music, if that's allowed by your
23 local law and if they wanted to have some
24 dancing -- now, in New York you might need a
25 different kind of license, a cabaret license but
3911
1 you wouldn't have to spend any money -- are you
2 saying that they couldn't do that under existing
3 law?
4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
5 President, the way I read existing law, the way
6 this bill is drafted, the way the current law is
7 drafted, what it says is that it will consider
8 -- it will constitute a substantial alteration
9 in the case of establishments licensed for
10 consumption on the premises if any enlargement
11 or contraction of the dining or kitchen
12 facilities occurs. I interpret that to mean
13 that if you have fewer tables or if you have a
14 smaller restaurant operation, that you have to
15 go back and it's a substantial alteration.
16 That's what the current law says. It triggers
17 the kind of notification provisions that Senator
18 Padavan has made reference to and it seems to me
19 that if we're going to change the character of
20 the small restaurant and bar into a small bar
21 with a tiny restaurant, that that's a change in
22 the character of the operation and it should go
23 to the licensing authority for approval.
24 I don't think that's
25 unreasonable. I agree with Senator Padavan.
3912
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Gold.
3 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr.
4 President. Just for the edification of my
5 colleague, if you have a restaurant and you add
6 or subtract a few tables, you are not enlarging
7 or decreasing the dining facilities. They are
8 talking about moving walls. They are talking
9 about structural changes. That is what the word
10 "alteration" means. Adding a table is not an
11 alteration.
12 And I want to thank Senator
13 Goodman for giving us the opportunity to have
14 this dialogue while he's over there enjoying
15 myself, and I would urge my colleagues to not
16 only support the bill but to please aim your
17 volleys at the sponsor.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Paterson, why do you rise?
20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
21 I know I'm addressing the chamber, but I
22 specifically address these remarks to Senator
23 Connor, wherever he may be. Only this
24 conference, only this conference would watch a
25 dispute between two members of the Majority and
3913
1 take the fight over there to over here. I'm
2 sitting here and I'm going to wait outside until
3 this is over. (Laughter)
4 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Paterson, you're excused.
7 Senator Goldman -- or Senator
8 Goodman, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR GOODMAN: I rise to make
10 a further comment, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Might I
12 remind the members of the chamber that the rules
13 only allow members to speak twice on a bill.
14 SENATOR GOODMAN: May I explain
15 my vote, Mr. President?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Secretary will read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
24 the negatives, and the Chair recognizes Senator
25 Goodman to explain his vote.
3914
1 SENATOR GOODMAN: I would like to
2 make two observations in explanation of my vote,
3 Mr. President.
4 First of all, I would like to say
5 that it would be my honor to suggest to the
6 Governor that he designate Senator Gold upon his
7 retirement from this chamber which we all regret
8 -- Senator Gold, I'm going to nominate you to
9 be the commissioner of the State Liquor
10 Authority. Thank you for the obvious indication
11 of your high credentials in this area and
12 secondly, I'm reminded of a little thing that I
13 learned when I was a kid on the block. There's
14 an old expression that used to run something
15 like this. Want to fight me, buddy? Meet me
16 buddy. Senator Gold, you're me buddy.
17 Thank you very much.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
19 the results when tabulated.
20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
21 the negative on Calendar Number 1081 are
22 Senators Dollinger, Fuschillo, Hannon, Maltese,
23 Marcellino, Montgomery, Onorato, Padavan, Skelos
24 and Stavisky. Ayes 49, nays 10.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3915
1 is passed.
2 The Secretary will continue to
3 read the controversial calendar.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1162, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6091, an
6 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
7 fostering compliance.
8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Larkin, an explanation has been requested by
11 Senator Leichter.
12 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
13 President.
14 This is a very simple bill. This
15 bill would require registration with selective
16 service as a precondition to receipt of New York
17 State aid for higher education.
18 Since 1982, the federal
19 government has conditioned the receipt of
20 federal grants for higher education upon a male
21 applicant's register with the selective
22 service. There are -- 21 states have taken that
23 lead to date. New York would be the 22nd. It's
24 very simple. If you want money from the state,
25 just register.
3916
1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
2 will Senator Larkin yield, please?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Larkin, do you yield to a question from Senator
5 Leichter?
6 SENATOR LARKIN: My good
7 colleague from the City, yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I'm
11 just interested why we would use as leverage the
12 state making educational grants in this
13 particular area, that is, registering for
14 selective service and not in other areas. For
15 instance, how about -- Senator, why didn't you
16 provide that those who want to apply for
17 education aid from the state of New York also
18 have to certify that they filed their income
19 taxes?
20 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, very
21 simple. There's a federal law that provides for
22 registration for selective service. There's a
23 federal requirement if you want federal dollars
24 for education that you must have registered.
25 It's a simple matter. 21 states have done it.
3917
1 We would be the 22nd and according to national
2 authorities there's about 10 or 12 others that
3 are doing it.
4 You could make any arguments you
5 would like to make on it but this is very
6 simple. Young males who attain an age register
7 for selective service. They cannot obtain
8 federal grants if they don't. We just want to
9 be in conformity with them.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator,
11 if you would be good enough to continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Larkin, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
17 Senator continues to yield.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I'm
19 not sure that -- I understand why you did
20 selective service. I don't understand why you
21 didn't do income taxes and maybe some other
22 obligations of citizenship.
23 Now, your answer is, well, the
24 federal government does it. Well, certainly.
25 It's a federal law. Selective service is a
3918
1 federal law. Income taxes, state income taxes
2 is a state law. Why don't you show as great a
3 concern for enforcing the state laws as you do
4 of rushing to the federal government and say,
5 Hey, Uncle Sam, let me help you. That's my
6 question.
7 SENATOR LARKIN: Do you really
8 believe that's a good piece of legislation?
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Your
10 legislation? No, I don't think it's good.
11 SENATOR LARKIN: What you're
12 proposing is to use it for income tax purposes.
13 Do you believe it's a good idea?
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -
15 SENATOR LARKIN: If you put it
16 in, I'll co-sponsor it.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:
18 Gentlemen, I would appreciate it if you're going
19 to have a dialogue, that you take it outside the
20 chamber. If you want to have a debate, let's go
21 through the Chair.
22 Do you ask the Senator to
23 continue to yield, Senator Leichter, or would
24 you like to speak on the bill?
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: I will, and
3919
1 may I say that I've done foolish things, but I
2 would never ask Senator Larkin to step outside.
3 Senator -- but, Senator, I'm just
4 trying to see, are we having a particular
5 problem? Do you know the percentage of students
6 that have applied for education aid in the state
7 of New York who have not registered for
8 selective service?
9 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, you know,
10 selective service -- I have a memo here from the
11 Selective Service System which was the basis for
12 our looking at this legislation and it ranks the
13 50 states where they're at and we're about
14 one-third in compliance with the requirements of
15 selective service.
16 We believe that this is very
17 simple. It enables us to be in full compliance
18 and it enables us to ensure that the
19 requirements for registration -- it's a matter
20 of a simple form -- can model it after the
21 federal portion of it. It's not a big deal and
22 I personally cannot see why anybody in this
23 chamber and the other chamber or any of the
24 others who don't have compliance would find it a
25 problem for a young male who is required by
3920
1 federal law to register and if he doesn't
2 register, he should not be entitled to it,
3 period.
4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would Senator
5 Larkin continue to yield, please?
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
7 President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
9 Senator continues to yield.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, has
11 the Selective Service System or particularly the
12 Defense Department come to the state of New
13 York, come to you and said, We need help. The
14 registration with selective service in the state
15 of New York is poor. We're not able to enforce
16 the federal laws. Please help us. Have they
17 done that?
18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yeah. We've
19 received from the Selective Service Region 3 and
20 we've also received it from Selective Service
21 Region 1, Major General Rosetta Y. Burke,
22 retired state director for New York.
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: And, Senator,
24 would you tell us what this distinguished
25 official said.
3921
1 SENATOR LARKIN: She would like
2 us to enact legislation as done in 21 other
3 states to put us in line with having young
4 people who -- males who want to, who are
5 required to register for the selective service
6 to sign up, period.
7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay.
8 Senator, am I correct that the Defense
9 Department which oversees the Selective Service
10 System, I believe, has not asked the state of
11 New York -- has not come and said, We can't
12 enforce the federal laws. We look to you, the
13 state of New York, to help us?
14 SENATOR LARKIN: You know, first
15 of all, the Department of Defense doesn't run
16 the Selective Service System.
17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, the
18 Selective Service System is run out of
19 Washington. I believe it's under the Department
20 of Defense, but whoever it is, other than some
21 retired official having written you a letter,
22 has the system as such come and said to the
23 state of New York -- have they come to the
24 Governor, for instance, and said, Governor,
25 we're in real trouble. We can't enforce federal
3922
1 laws in the state of New York. Will you help
2 us? Have they done that?
3 SENATOR LARKIN: You know, two
4 things. We met with a representative of the
5 Selective Service System who came to visit us,
6 General Burke, who some in this chamber knows, a
7 very distinguished member of the state guard for
8 a number of years, General Burke said, quite
9 honestly, we are trying nationally to comply
10 with the federal law and we would like your
11 assistance. We have contacted every state in
12 the Union. There are 21 states that have done
13 it. New York would be 22 and there are 12 other
14 states that hope to enact it during this term.
15 This isn't pressure. You know, I
16 have to be honest with you. I cannot understand
17 your rationale in saying that you're trying to
18 fight or that we're trying to pressure or that
19 we're trying to do something for somebody else.
20 In effect, what we're really doing is trying to
21 encourage people who attain the age of 18 that
22 are required by federal law to register and an
23 incentive for them is to say, Hey, if you don't
24 register, you're not going to get any federal
25 aid and if you don't register, you're not going
3923
1 to get any New York State aid. I -- for the
2 life of me, I cannot understand your negative
3 arguments about assisting our people in doing
4 what they're required to do.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
6 I thank my good friend, Senator Larkin, for his
7 explanation. I understand his motive.
8 Let's be perfectly clear. I
9 think all of us want young people who have to
10 register for the Selective Service System to do
11 so. It's the law. Whether you agree with the
12 universal registration or not, it's the law of
13 the land and it should be obeyed, but I don't
14 know any other instance where we condition state
15 assistance and even you could -- you could call
16 it more than state assistance, an entitlement
17 program that's available to the people of the
18 state of New York if they qualify, where we
19 condition that aid upon conformity with state -
20 with national laws.
21 Now, there are a lot of national
22 laws that we might decide are important. One of
23 them I pointed out is certainly filing income
24 taxes. Even more important is, of course,
25 filing New York State income taxes, but we don't
3924
1 condition -- you don't come in here with a bill
2 and say that they have to certify that they
3 filed their income taxes. You don't come in and
4 say certify that they're not in violation of any
5 other laws of the state of New York or of the
6 national government, and I guess what bothers me
7 in this respect is that, one, that the state of
8 New York should decide on its own really, we're
9 going to enforce the federal laws. The federal
10 government does a pretty good job of enforcing
11 federal laws.
12 Secondly, we're in an area where
13 there's no particular problem. I haven't read
14 that there's a big difficulty that young people
15 in this state of New York are not registering as
16 they're required.
17 Thirdly, to be very honest with
18 you, Senator Larkin, this sort of seems like a
19 throwback to what was happening in the 1960s, in
20 the 1970s. It's like a hangover from the
21 debates that we used to have over the Vietnam
22 War, when we know that many people didn't
23 register and there was a national dispute.
24 People stated their objections very strongly and
25 some did so by refusing to register, but that's
3925
1 behind us.
2 I mean, there's a, to my mind,
3 sort of singling out this area sort of to show
4 and compel patriotism when we don't do it
5 anywhere else. We've had similar bills, I think
6 maybe a little more broadly than yours were
7 drawn. I think Senator Johnson used to propose
8 those bills and maybe they were yours that
9 prohibited admission to, I think, state
10 universities unless you showed that you complied
11 with the registration requirements under
12 selective service, and I know many of us felt it
13 was just wrong to single out this particular
14 law, a federal law, and make it a condition for
15 receiving privileges or rights, however you want
16 to call them, that are available to every person
17 in the state of New York, and that's why I'm
18 going to vote against this bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
20 Secretary will read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect on the first day of
23 January.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Stavisky, did you wish to explain your vote?
3926
1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3 Secretary will call the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
6 recognizes Senator Stavisky, to explain his
7 vote.
8 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think there
9 is drastic confusion between something that is
10 an issue of state government and something that
11 is mandated by the federal government. It is
12 absolute confusion. That troubles me.
13 Why don't we require before
14 anyone is eligible to receive federal aid in
15 business show that there was compliance with
16 this provision of the federal law? We don't do
17 it in that area, and I think it's an absolute
18 mistake for the state of New York in the area of
19 aid to otherwise qualify applicants for state
20 funding to be required to show compliance with
21 this provision of federal law.
22 It's a mistake, Senator, a
23 dreadful mistake to confuse these two things, to
24 have this as a condition for receiving state
25 assistance. If there is a state law that is
3927
1 being violated, that's one thing, but this is
2 not a violation of state law. It's a violation
3 of federal law and we ought to ask the federal
4 government to enforce its own laws and not to
5 require the state of New York to jump into
6 compliance.
7 I'm going to oppose this
8 legislation as irresponsible meddling by the
9 federal government in the state of New York's
10 business, and I don't think that was Senator
11 Larkin's purpose but that's the net effect of
12 what he's doing in this area.
13 It should be defeated. We should
14 say that Washington has no right to manipulate
15 the state of New York and its policies. Let the
16 federal government find other ways of achieving
17 compliance with federal law.
18 I'm going to vote in the
19 negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
21 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
24 the negative on Calendar Number 1162 are
25 Senators Gold, Leichter, Mendez, Paterson,
3928
1 Seabrook, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 52, nays 7.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
3 is passed.
4 Senator Skelos, that completes
5 the reading of the controversial calendar.
6 Senator Seabrook, why do you
7 rise?
8 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes, Mr.
9 President. With unanimous consent, I was not in
10 the room when Bill 838 was called, and I would
11 like to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
12 838.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
14 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
15 Seabrook will be recorded in the negative on
16 Calendar Number 838.
17 Senator Sampson, why do you
18 rise?
19 SENATOR SAMPSON: Mr. President,
20 I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in
21 the negative on Bill Number 838.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
23 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Sampson
24 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
25 Number 838.
3929
1 Senator Smith, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I
3 would request unanimous consent to be recorded
4 in the negative on Calendar Number 838.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Smith
7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
8 Number 838.
9 Senator Montgomery, why do you
10 rise?
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
12 President, I would like unanimous consent to be
13 recorded in the negative on Calendars 838 and
14 853.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator
17 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
18 Calendars Number 838 and 853.
19 Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
21 if we could return to motions and resolutions, I
22 ask that Resolution Number 3665 by Senator
23 Maltese, that the title be read and move for its
24 immediate adoption.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
3930
1 return to the order of motions and resolutions.
2 I'll ask the Secretary to read
3 the title to Resolution Number 3665.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
5 Maltese, Legislative Resolution 3665, commending
6 St. John's University Mock Trial Team on their
7 third place finish in the United States in the
8 National Intercollegiate Mock Trial Tournament.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
10 Maltese, on the resolution.
11 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
12 the hour is late, so I will be brief, but I
13 would be remiss if I did not not only commend
14 the St. John's University Mock Trial Team who
15 have waited patiently here for this recognition
16 by this august body.
17 They are a group of eight
18 students from St. John's University and their
19 two coaches and their two coaches are present
20 here today, Professor Bernie Helldorfer and
21 Professor Oscar Holt III.
22 The members of the St. John's
23 University Mock Trial Team are Adrienne Croker,
24 who also has received significant individual
25 honors, Kelly Frawley, Patrick Lespinasse,
3931
1 Autumn Levine, Milagros Matos, Dakota
2 Springfields, Kareem Vessup, who has also
3 received individual honors and Frances Wang, who
4 is the captain of the team.
5 Mr. President, they are eight
6 students from a prestigious school, St. John's
7 University, the only New York State college to
8 make the national finals and in those finals
9 beating many, many schools, perhaps of less
10 significance like Harvard and others. They
11 achieved a third place finish out of 250
12 colleges competing from across the United
13 States, and I firmly support this resolution and
14 would respectfully ask those members of the team
15 and the coaches to stand.
16 Thank you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
18 any other member wishing to speak on the
19 resolution?
20 Senator Seabrook, on the
21 resolution.
22 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes, Mr.
23 President. I too would like to commend the
24 students at St. John's and also one of his
25 coaches who is also a Bronxite, Oscar Holt, who
3932
1 also served as a staff member in the Assembly
2 for many years and commend them for their
3 outstanding accomplishment.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
5 member wishing to speak on the resolution?
6 (There was no response.)
7 Hearing none, the question is on
8 the resolution. All those in favor signify by
9 saying aye.
10 (Response of "Aye".)
11 Opposed, nay.
12 (There was no response.)
13 The resolution is adopted.
14 We welcome these members of the
15 St. John's University Mock Trial Team to the
16 chamber, congratulate you on your achievements.
17 Certainly you have a lot to be very, very proud
18 of and thank you for coming and sharing just a
19 couple of moments with the members in the
20 chamber.
21 Will -- the members of the mock
22 trial team I guess are all standing and we would
23 like to recognize you and thank you for your
24 victorious award.
25 (Applause)
3933
1 Senator Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3 would you call up Senator Maltese's Resolution
4 3725. I ask that the title be read and move for
5 its immediate adoption.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 Secretary will read the title to Resolution
8 3725.
9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
10 Maltese, Legislative Resolution 3725, honoring
11 the heroic work done by the Bureau of Emergency
12 Medical Services of the New York City Fire
13 Department.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Maltese, on the resolution.
16 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
17 today is a day of recognizing significant
18 contributions. Also present here today are the
19 officers of the Bureau of Emergency Medical
20 Services of the New York City Fire Department.
21 Certainly a most significant heroic group.
22 They are represented by Local
23 2507 whose new president Kevin Lightsey is
24 present with them. I would simply, Mr.
25 President, like to read just one brief line.
3934
1 "WHEREAS, in 1995, there were
2 close to one and a half million calls, one and
3 one half million calls for emergency medical
4 assistance for New Yorkers.
5 "In 1997 with just 2500 EMTs and
6 paramedics on board, these ambulances responded
7 to approximately two million alarms", two
8 million alarms protecting the lives of New York
9 City residents, Mr. President.
10 "In addition, they save
11 thousands of lives per year and in 1997 suffered
12 the first verified line of duty death as a
13 result of on-duty service."
14 Mr. President, it is my proud
15 honor today to recognize those officers who are
16 present here -- representatives present here in
17 the chamber.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
19 any other member wishing to speak on the
20 resolution?
21 (There was no response.)
22 Hearing none, the question is on
23 the Resolution 3725 by Senator Maltese. All
24 those in favor signify by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye".)
3935
1 Opposed, nay.
2 (There was no response.)
3 The resolution is adopted.
4 Again, on behalf of Senator
5 Bruno, Senator Maltese and all the members in
6 the chamber, we welcome these distinguished
7 public servants to the chamber and congratulate
8 the members of the Emergency Medical Service of
9 the New York City for the fine job you do. Keep
10 up the good work. We know you'll continue to
11 make us proud. Thank you for joining us in the
12 chamber.
13 (Applause)
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
16 move to adopt the balance of the Resolution
17 Calendar in its entirety.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
19 motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar
20 that's on the desk of the members with the
21 exception of Resolution 3665 and 3725.
22 Senator Paterson, why do you
23 rise?
24 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
25 I would like to add Resolution Calendar Number
3936
1 3645 to that list that we would consider
2 separately.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President -
4 Senator Paterson, is that in the form of an
5 amendment to my motion or is it a new
6 resolution?
7 SENATOR PATERSON: It's a request
8 and it's an amendment to your motion.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
10 me.
11 Senator Paterson, can you
12 explicitly state what you're requesting at this
13 point?
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
15 what I'm requesting is that I would like to
16 discuss Calendar Number 3645 so as not to
17 confuse it with the other resolutions on the
18 Resolution Calendar which is what just happened
19 with the Resolutions 3665 and -
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
21 believe the motion has been to adopt the entire
22 Resolution Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
24 motion is. To make another motion would be out
25 of order but, Senator Paterson -
3937
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
2 I just would like to amend the motion and would
3 like to ask that of the exceptions just cited in
4 Senator Skelos' motion, that we include Calendar
5 Number 3645 because I want to discuss that
6 motion and, if I discuss it, I don't want it to
7 be confused with all the other motions on the
8 calendar which neither myself nor any of the
9 members of the Minority have any problem with.
10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just point of
11 order, Mr. President. Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Leichter, why do you rise?
14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
15 I just wanted to help the Chair and the chamber
16 and share my recollection that we've always had
17 a procedure as to resolutions similar to the
18 controversial calendar that if somebody wanted
19 to lay a resolution aside to debate it, it was
20 then laid aside, and I don't remember that it
21 ever took an amendment to any particular
22 motion. Somebody would say I have a problem
23 with a particular resolution, I would like to
24 debate it, it was then put aside and it would
25 seem we ought to follow that procedure, Mr.
3938
1 President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you
3 for your recollection, Senator Leichter.
4 Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
6 believe the motion has been made to adopt the
7 Resolution Calendar in its entirety.
8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
9 President.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
12 motion has -
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr.
14 President. Mr. President, I have -- we really
15 conduct business here very much by consent.
16 Now, what we could do is we could go through
17 every single resolution on the Resolution
18 Calendar separately, but what we do to try to
19 facilitate time here is that we put all the
20 motions together and we adopt them as a
21 calendar, but I'm asking to discuss one
22 particular resolution and I have amended Senator
23 Skelos' motion. I haven't heard anyone in the
24 chamber give me a reason why we can't separate
25 this. They're all resolutions. They're all the
3939
1 same. They're all offered by different members
2 of the Senate. This particular motion was
3 offered by Senator Bruno and I would like to
4 discuss it separately. I think that I have a
5 right under our procedures to talk about that
6 particular motion, and I don't really understand
7 why this would be any different than the motion
8 in which we properly recognize the work of the
9 EMS workers and the St. John's legal team.
10 So I'm just moving again that my
11 amendment to the motion be heard in which I'm
12 asking to discuss this motion separately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
14 Paterson, just so that the Chair may clarify
15 what we're doing here for your benefit and the
16 other members' benefit is we have a Resolution
17 Calendar which is traditionally placed on the
18 members' desks. Senator Skelos has made a
19 motion to adopt the Resolution Calendar in its
20 entirety with two exceptions. You now are
21 making a motion to amend Senator Skelos' motion
22 to exclude another resolution.
23 That motion is before the house
24 to be discussed at this point. If you would
25 like to be heard on that motion, you're entitled
3940
1 to that under the rules of this house.
2 So if you would like to be
3 recognized. If not, we'll take a vote on your
4 motion to amend Senator Skelos' motion.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
6 I am not necessarily interested in bringing this
7 to a vote, to be perfectly honest with you.
8 What I am really putting forth is a request,
9 which I think as a member of the Senate, I feel
10 that I have a right not to have to vote on an
11 entire calendar when I only have issue with one
12 of the separate motions.
13 Now, if this were one bill that
14 had different measures to the actual bill, that
15 would be different, but these resolutions that
16 are on today's calendar came to the calendar
17 separately and I want to discuss this motion
18 separately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
20 anybody else who would like to be heard on
21 Senator Paterson's motion?
22 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr.
23 President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Gold, on Senator Paterson's motion to amend.
3941
1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I
2 every once in a while really do get mystified as
3 to why we elevate certain issues to the point
4 where we're asked to go to the wall on issues.
5 As long as I have been here, the
6 procedures have been exactly as described by
7 Senator Paterson, and that is that if somebody
8 had something on a resolution, we would deal
9 with it.
10 Now, if you want to change it,
11 you see, the problem with the Republican Party
12 in this house is you want to change the rules
13 every other minute that you want to do it and
14 you think we don't have any memories here, but
15 we do.
16 Now, if you want to change the
17 procedure here today and we will never have
18 these consent resolutions again, that's up to
19 you. I can't speak for Senator Connor, but it
20 seems to me that as one offended member, I have
21 a right to retaliate. Why are we going to the
22 wall on this nonsense? We all understand what's
23 at stake here.
24 You want to do something
25 unprecedented which you have no right to do. It
3942
1 violates your own rules which you do all the
2 time and you don't want to be embarrassed by
3 having it out there. So you think you're going
4 to have the Democrats put in the position where
5 you're going to tell me I've got to vote against
6 a resolution honoring the memory of Rosemary
7 Gunning in order to stand up for the principles
8 of this house, but it is foolishness. It is
9 childishness. You think nobody in the press is
10 going to understand what you're doing? No one
11 in the press is going to understand that you
12 violate your own rules?
13 Well, maybe your opinion of the
14 press which must be pretty low is accurate,
15 because that's what you're saying, because the
16 public will not understand what you're doing,
17 but I don't know why you want to go to the wall
18 on it.
19 We have issues that come before
20 this house that are very significant and we
21 differ on those issues and they are good,
22 legitimate debates. The public knows there is a
23 difference between your side of the aisle and
24 our side of the aisle. Very often the public
25 agrees with you or agrees with us, it doesn't
3943
1 matter, but you're going to go to the wall on
2 whether or not one resolution which is ill
3 advised, was put on the calendar and you're
4 trying to bury a Joe Bruno resolution among all
5 those other resolutions hoping nobody is going
6 to see it?
7 If Senator Bruno is the leader of
8 this house and is entitled to our respect, and I
9 hope we do respect our leader, why do we have to
10 camouflage his work by putting it in with a lot
11 of other resolutions? Why is not a resolution
12 carried by the leader of this house able to
13 stand the light of day in scrutiny and stand by
14 itself without being buried?
15 I think that the failure to
16 accede to the wishes of Senator Paterson is an
17 insult to Joe Bruno. I may agree or not agree
18 with Senator Bruno, but I certainly respect the
19 man. I respect the individual. The attempt by
20 the assistant Majority Leader to hide the
21 resolution and to protect Senator Bruno from
22 himself is insulting.
23 Now, if you want to debate the
24 entire Resolution Calendar for whatever period
25 of time is necessary and then go through roll
3944
1 calls and all this nonsense, we could do that.
2 All Senator Paterson is asking to
3 do is to get on with all those resolutions which
4 we all want to do. Rosemary Gunning. There are
5 some other people who are being honored and
6 whose memories are being honored. We get those
7 out of the way. We all agree on that and then
8 we'll discuss whether or not we believe we ought
9 to be doing things for living members of
10 Congress who we've never done before and do
11 things that violate our rules and we'll center
12 on it and we'll take a vote and if I -- if I can
13 be a fortune-teller in this case, I would
14 imagine that the majority of votes in this house
15 will be to vote for the resolution even if it
16 violates the rules, but do it. I mean, do it
17 like men and -
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
19 me, Senator Gold. Excuse me.
20 Senator Skelos, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 just for your edification, in case you don't
23 have the Resolution Calendar in front of you,
24 the resolution by Senator Bruno, which is a
25 public document reported from the Finance
3945
1 Committee with due deliberation, would
2 memorialize Congress to rename Saratoga National
3 Cemetery in honor of Congressman Gerald H.
4 Solomon who is retiring from the Congress,
5 chairman of the Rules Committee of Congress.
6 That's what this resolution that Senator Gold
7 would say we're trying to hide from the press,
8 hide from the public, protect Joe Bruno, slip
9 through. This is a credible resolution that,
10 Senator Gold, I'm amazed that you're so offended
11 by it.
12 SENATOR GOLD: Well, then why
13 don't you put it out by itself and let's deal
14 with it by itself?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: A motion has
16 been made to adopt the Resolution Calendar in
17 its entirety.
18 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. And as I was
19 saying -
20 SENATOR SKELOS: That was the
21 motion.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Thank you.
23 And as I was saying, Senator
24 Skelos, this proud, quotes-unquotes,
25 "resolution" you're so afraid to get a single
3946
1 vote on it that you won't vote on it by itself.
2 You can wave the flag at me, Senator, but the
3 facts are the facts.
4 The fact is you are afraid to put
5 that thing up for a vote by itself and if you're
6 not so, do it and I will respect that and I'll
7 vote yes or no, but the fact is that you're
8 afraid to do it. So you say I move the whole
9 Resolution Calendar because you don't want
10 anybody here to look at this and say, Oh, my
11 gosh. I've got to vote against the Jubilee Year
12 Celebration of Temple Israel.
13 You know, Senator Skelos, the
14 problem with your side of the aisle is you lost
15 credibility already. I remember when we had a
16 fight in this very house over gubernatorial
17 vetoes and the leadership of our side said let
18 us vote line by line and I think -- what was it
19 -- 300 lines or 200 lines and we said we'll
20 vote 200 times, 300 times if that's what it
21 takes and your leadership says, Oh, no, no, no.
22 The vetoes aren't three bills. You've got to
23 vote yes or no to sustain the vetoes. You get
24 three votes. So after a big debate on this
25 floor over the procedure, which, of course, you
3947
1 won because you have the Majority, we voted
2 three times. Then you instructed the Journal
3 Clerk to record 2- or 300 separate votes which
4 is fantasy land.
5 So there's no doubt in my mind,
6 Senator Skelos, that you'll move the Resolution
7 Calendar as one motion and anyone who votes no,
8 you will then run around to -- I don't mean you
9 personally -- but someone will run around and
10 say, Do you know that Senator Gold voted against
11 the 50th Anniversary Celebration of the Jewish
12 community of Bergen Beach? How could that
13 Jewish Senator do that and the fact is, as
14 everybody knows, I would not vote against that
15 resolution.
16 So the answer is, Senator, that
17 if you don't accede to what is the practice in
18 this house, what's the courtesy in this house,
19 number one, you're bringing us into the last two
20 or three weeks of this session and begging us to
21 show you no courtesies and maybe that will be
22 more exciting. I heard there was going to be a
23 yawn at the end of this session anyway. So
24 maybe we'll have a little excitement even if
25 it's only procedure, or else what you're doing
3948
1 is you're saying once you jam your motion down
2 the throats of the people in this chamber, I and
3 others will have to stand up and specifically
4 say, Well, you know, I would vote for the
5 Leibell resolution and I would vote for the
6 second Leibell resolution and go through it all
7 and then we could write to all of these
8 organizations and tell them that unfortunately
9 they had to be cover for an illegal resolution
10 that was put through on the floor of this house.
11 Now, I don't know why you want to
12 do all of that. I mean it's just so nonsense.
13 I don't know why you want to do all of that.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
15 Gold.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Perhaps my
17 distinguished colleague from the North Country
18 will tell me.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
20 me.
21 Senator Stafford, why do you
22 rise?
23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
24 Yes, Mr. President. Thank you,
25 Senator Gold, for yielding the floor.
3949
1 Mr. President, I will now try to
2 make a broad stroke with a conceptual brush
3 trying not to be contentious and trying to ease
4 our feelings as we move on into the evening
5 hours. May I suggest -
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me
7 -- Senator Stafford, excuse me just a moment.
8 Senator Paterson, why did you
9 rise? Did you wish to withdraw your motion?
10 (Laughter.)
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
12 with respect -- Senator Stafford has asked me to
13 yield, so I will wait until Senator Stafford -
14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you,
15 Senator Paterson, also for yielding -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Stafford.
18 SENATOR STAFFORD: -- as we go
19 into the evening. I would suggest, Mr.
20 President, that possibly I can -- let me just
21 continue. What I feel we'll be able to do here
22 is to share with you that maybe things are not
23 as crucial, critical, serious or the world is
24 not coming to an end.
25 We've been talking about a
3950
1 resolution here and it is a resolution
2 memorializing Congress to name the veterans
3 cemetery in Saratoga the Gerald H. B. Solomon
4 Cemetery.
5 I believe there are two questions
6 that have been raised and we have every right in
7 this body to raise questions. We have the right
8 in this country to raise questions and some of
9 the people who -- no, all of the people who are
10 buried in this cemetery we're talking about have
11 fought so that we could question in this
12 country. I will attempt to answer.
13 I will suggest to you that this
14 is not a resolution without the bounds of the
15 rules of the Senate. First, it memorializes
16 Congress to name the cemetery for Jerry
17 Solomon. It does not memorialize Congress
18 concerning any federal legislation. Our rules
19 -- pardon me?
20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: You have to
21 do it by law.
22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Pardon me?
23 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order.
24 The gentleman has the floor.
25 SENATOR STAFFORD: I was going so
3951
1 well. It's always Senator Dollinger. There we
2 are again. It does not memorialize Congress to
3 do anything concerning legislation. It
4 memorializes Congress to name the cemetery in
5 honor of Jerry Solomon. It also is directly
6 germane to the affairs, business, rights,
7 benefits and obligations of the state of New
8 York because these people who are buried are
9 citizens of the state of New York.
10 Also, I believe a question has
11 been raised and again I reiterate, we have every
12 right in this state, nation and body to raise
13 questions. Wars have been fought so we could
14 raise questions and these people are buried
15 there.
16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President,
17 will the gentleman yield to a question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
19 Stafford.
20 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would rather
21 not, but I have never done so well. Yes.
22 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, if
23 the statements you're making are accurate and if
24 there is no difficulty legally with this
25 resolution, do you have any idea why this
3952
1 resolution has to be coupled with many, many
2 other resolutions in an attempt to gain votes
3 rather than just stand out there on its own as
4 we have done so many, many times when members
5 have requested separate consideration of a
6 resolution?
7 SENATOR STAFFORD: I will
8 continue and answer Senator Gold. I guess we're
9 here because questions have been raised so now
10 I'm trying to answer the question.
11 It has been said that we should
12 not pass a resolution concerning a sitting
13 public official. I would suggest to all of us
14 that this public official is retiring as Judge
15 Titone is retiring, and I believe that
16 resolution passed on September 1st, retired
17 public official. I believe also a resolution
18 today -- May 12th -- no, no, no -- passed May
19 12th -- see, you broke my train of thought -
20 passed May 12th when he's retiring September
21 1st.
22 Now, I just noticed here a few
23 minutes ago or a second ago -- I even do
24 research myself. I want everyone to know that.
25 I see a resolution honoring a Supreme Court
3953
1 justice who's retiring and that is right in
2 here.
3 SENATOR GOLD: What are we naming
4 him?
5 SENATOR STAFFORD: That is a good
6 question. I think that I would say the spirit
7 of a resolution concerning anyone, whether
8 you're naming something after them or whether
9 you're just recognizing them in a resolution, I
10 suggest there that we're splitting hairs and it
11 really isn't really germane. We're not. We're
12 just memorializing but, of course, memorializing
13 is, in effect, asking to name, but I think
14 that's a valid point.
15 I guess what I'm attempting to
16 say here, Mr. President, that I think we're
17 raising the issues here and balancing the
18 equities and explaining that maybe we don't have
19 as much of a problem as anyone would think. I
20 think the usual resolution was made to pass the
21 resolutions. I know someone is bringing up a
22 question now.
23 I want to say that Senator Skelos
24 was doing his job in an orderly fashion the way
25 we usually do things, and I think we will all
3954
1 say the floor has never been run better.
2 I am attempting to just show
3 exactly what some of the questions are and I'm
4 attempting to give some of the answers and if I
5 do say so -- and I very seldom stand up here and
6 tell you again how well I've done, but I would
7 suggest that I've answered really any of the
8 questions and I think if anything we laid the
9 issues out, and I think everyone understands
10 what we're doing here.
11 I would only say about the person
12 who we're doing this, I have known him a long,
13 long time, as all of you have. He was a
14 supervisor, a county legislator, member of the
15 Assembly, served in Congress, became chairman of
16 the Rules Committee. He has been very involved
17 in international matters and, as a matter of
18 fact, I believe he sponsored the legislation
19 that brought about the veterans -- Department of
20 Veterans Affairs.
21 So this is what we're doing here,
22 and I think that we sort of have it all here and
23 I would suggest that this, I hope, would be -
24 would answer any of the questions and, Senator
25 Gold, I'll answer a question again.
3955
1 What was your question?
2 SENATOR GOLD: My question is
3 simply if this resolution is proper and it's
4 right and it's the right thing to do and it's
5 legal, why can't it be separated and we can vote
6 on it and everyone will know the vote on that
7 resolution versus the vote on other resolutions
8 instead of lumping it the way it's being lumped
9 in order to protect it.
10 SENATOR STAFFORD: Always being
11 the effective protagonist, effective adversary,
12 I would suggest you've done about as good of a
13 job in separating it and bringing it right out
14 by itself as anyone I've ever seen.
15 SENATOR GOLD: But meanwhile the
16 vote won't be recorded that way.
17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I
18 thought that I had explained it so you would
19 want to vote on it.
20 SENATOR GOLD: And, Senator,
21 assuming that you explained it so I would want
22 to vote for it, I would want the public to know
23 that I voted for it, but the way you're doing
24 it, the public would not know that I wanted to
25 vote for it or not vote for it, because it has
3956
1 to be protected, and I think that that is an
2 insult to Jerry Solomon and I think it's an
3 insult to Joe Bruno and from where I come from,
4 I think that the public has a right to know what
5 we do and what we think for better or for worse,
6 and I can only assume that Senator Bruno puts in
7 this resolution because he believes in it and he
8 would stand in front of his constituents and
9 say, This is what I did. This is what I believe
10 in. There's no problem with that.
11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Pardon me for
12 saying "it" because that was something I am
13 always corrected at home about. Whenever I use
14 the word "it", they would correct me and I mean
15 the resolution and I apologize. It's a
16 resolution.
17 We often vote here and much of
18 what we do is joined together. I don't -- let
19 me put it this way. I don't see the real
20 serious problem here, if anyone could explain
21 their position. I think maybe -- I think maybe
22 we're just -- you know, I guess that's a long
23 way of saying I don't agree with Senator Gold.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Paterson.
3957
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
2 I think that there are a few presumptions that
3 have been made here, and I think that they
4 support the need for my amendment to pass.
5 It's already been said that there
6 is a problem voting for this particular
7 resolution. I don't know that there is a
8 problem because the reason that I asked to have
9 it separated was I wanted to ask some questions
10 relative to what the rules of the Senate provide
11 in order to pass this resolution and based on
12 the answers to those questions, I think I've got
13 an open mind as to whether or not I would
14 actually vote for the resolution.
15 I think that I did have a right
16 to ask the questions and in asking the
17 questions, I thought that we would address the
18 resolution separately rather than an aggregate,
19 which is the way we do it to accommodate speed
20 and to accommodate what is really our consent,
21 that there is a consensus of all Senators in
22 that respect.
23 I just would like to reiterate
24 that that's what the strength of my amendment to
25 Senator Skelos' motion is, that we just discuss
3958
1 this resolution separately.
2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
3 President. Mr. President, point of order.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
5 Leichter, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Point of
7 order. I'm going to ask for a ruling of the
8 Chair. I'm going to disagree with my
9 distinguished colleague here, Senator Paterson.
10 I don't think that there is an amendment to be
11 made, and I believe that we have a very clear
12 procedure, Senator, that I remember and maybe
13 Senator Stafford, Senator Marchi remembers.
14 When I came to this chamber, the
15 Resolution Calendar, we would read the name of
16 every resolution. We then decided collectively
17 that that was a waste of time and we would have
18 a Resolution Calendar that would pass on consent
19 and if any member then wanted to discuss a
20 particular resolution, that resolution was laid
21 aside and if we had done it in this instance, we
22 would have been out of here 15 minutes ago. Now
23 we'll probably be here for an hour and a half or
24 longer going through this whole procedure which
25 just doesn't make sense. It is contrary to the
3959
1 way we've proceeded.
2 Mr. President, I pointed out the
3 procedures of the house before which you seem to
4 be underwhelmed by. So I'm going to ask you now
5 for a ruling of the Chair that the resolution -
6 what's the -- Resolution Number 3645 be laid
7 aside at the request -- not amendment -- at the
8 request of Senator Paterson. I ask for a ruling
9 on the Chair that that be done.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
11 Leichter, the -- Senator Leichter, there is a
12 motion on the floor and I haven't heard you
13 state a proper point of order at this point in
14 accordance. So there is no point of order that
15 you're raising that I need to rule on. There is
16 a motion on the floor that the Acting Minority
17 Leader, Senator Paterson, has made to amend a
18 motion which was submitted by Senator Skelos.
19 That is the issue before the body.
20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr.
21 President. Mr. President, I made a point of
22 order.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: State
24 your point of order.
25 SENATOR LEICHTER: My point of
3960
1 order is that his amendment is out of order,
2 that no amendment need to be made, that
3 Resolution 3645 be laid aside at the request of
4 the Deputy Minority Leader that -- under the
5 procedures of this house. That's my -- that is
6 my request for a ruling to you under my point of
7 order.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your
9 point of order is not well taken. We're on the
10 motion, Senator Leichter.
11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, then I
12 appeal the ruling of the Chair. I appeal the
13 ruling that I have not stated a proper point of
14 order.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
16 motion is to -- Senator Paterson, would you like
17 to be heard on the motion to appeal the ruling
18 of the Chair?
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
20 if I were to withdraw my motion, then I guess
21 there couldn't be an appeal of your ruling on my
22 motion. Isn't that correct?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That
24 would be correct.
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Then, Mr.
3961
1 President, I'm going to ask one more time. I
2 really think so that we never have to have a
3 vote on anything here, that the best procedure
4 at this point is to let the motion be discussed
5 separately. We discussed two other motions
6 separately -- the resolution. I'm sorry. Let
7 the resolution be discussed separately and that
8 way there never has to be recorded in this
9 proceeding that there was ever a motion -- ever
10 a vote taken on anything that would in any way
11 diminish from the character of the individual
12 who this motion is supporting because I don't
13 have any interest in creating that kind of
14 situation.
15 I'm just asking if I can ask my
16 questions about this motion separately, and I
17 know that you can't answer that, Mr. President.
18 I'm really asking the Majority Leader to give me
19 the courtesy that just came to me of being heard
20 and being allowed to ask a couple of basically
21 technical questions about this house's ability
22 to pass that resolution. That's what I'm asking
23 the Majority.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Skelos, it seems -
3962
1 SENATOR SKELOS: My motion has
2 been to adopt the Resolution Calendar in its
3 entirety.
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6 Paterson.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: The Majority
8 Leader's motion is not on the floor right now.
9 The amendment is on the floor and I'm asking the
10 Majority to yield for a question as to whether
11 or not I would be allowed -- he didn't know when
12 he moved. He was unaware when he moved to adopt
13 the Resolution Calendar that I had that concern
14 and I'm now asking Senator Skelos to yield for a
15 question and I'm asking him -
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
17 Paterson, I think that might be just a little
18 premature. We're at the point where Senator
19 Leichter has raised an appeal to the ruling of
20 the Chair. You did indicate that -- you asked
21 the question of the Chair -
22 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I
23 understand that.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -
25 whether or not that would be appropriate if, in
3963
1 fact, you withdrew your motion. So we're at
2 that point that either the Chair is going to
3 rule -- take a motion or a vote, I should say,
4 on the appeal to the ruling of the Chair or you
5 are going to withdraw your motion to amend; one
6 or the other.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So that
9 we can proceed in the proper format.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand,
11 Mr. President, and I'm actually considering -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Paterson, if you want to have a conversation
14 quickly with Senator Skelos that doesn't
15 necessarily have to go through the Chair as to
16 whether you withdraw or not, that's fine. If
17 not, I'm prepared to take a vote on the appeal
18 to the ruling of the Chair.
19 SENATOR PATERSON: His place or
20 mine?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Outside
22 or in?
23 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President.
24 Mr. President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3964
1 Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 respectfully, I withdraw my amendment to Senator
4 Skelos' motion to adopt the Resolution
5 Calendar.
6 At this time I would like to ask
7 for a ruling of the Chair on my request, not
8 amendment, my request under Rule IX -- Rule VI
9 -- excuse me -- Paragraph (9), Subdivision (e),
10 and I would wish, Mr. President, for a reading
11 of that rule by the Secretary.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Skelos.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
15 believe the request has been made, but the
16 request was denied when I made the motion to
17 adopt the Resolution Calendar in its entirety.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: Point of
19 order, Mr. President. I agree, Senator Skelos'
20 motion is on the floor and on the motion I'm
21 asking for a ruling from the Chair. I'm raising
22 this rule and I'll paraphrase it that -
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me read
24 it.
25 Mr. President -
3965
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
2 Paterson has -- Senator Leichter, I appreciate
3 your help but Senator Paterson does have the
4 floor.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: And I'm asking
6 -- I'm asking for the floor, Mr. President. Do
7 I have the floor?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Leichter, you know, one of the real
10 responsibilities, and I take it very seriously,
11 of this position that the -- on the rostrum is
12 to maintain some order and decorum and some
13 proper procedure and for one member to just grab
14 something and say I want the floor is not the
15 proper way in order to proceed.
16 So Senator Paterson does have the
17 floor, and I will recognize him and continue to
18 recognize him as long as he likes the floor.
19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President,
20 I'm asking -
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Why do
22 you rise, Senator Leichter?
23 SENATOR LEICHTER: To ask Senator
24 Paterson if he would yield so that I could read
25 Rule IX -- Rule VI.
3966
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If you're
2 asking Senator Paterson to yield to a question,
3 Senator Leichter, then that is the proper
4 procedure.
5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay, fine.
6 Then I will ask Senator Paterson if he would
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Paterson, do you yield to a question from
10 Senator Leichter?
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
12 I will yield to a question from Senator
13 Leichter. I will also yield my rules to Senator
14 Leichter.
15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator,
16 I'm reading to you a rule of this house and ask
17 you if this is the rule that you are relying on,
18 and it provides, Rule VI, Section 9 (e), "All
19 resolutions other than those mentioned and
20 treated in the preceding Subdivision C and D of
21 this section and reported by the committee of
22 reference designated by the Temporary President
23 shall be placed on the calendar. When in the
24 order of business the resolutions are reached,
25 the Senate may adopt such resolutions as a group
3967
1 by one vote upon the question of the entire
2 calendar resolution excepting that any member
3 may request that any one or more of the
4 resolutions on such calendar shall be voted upon
5 or debated separately."
6 Senator, was that the rule that
7 you are now invoking?
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
9 SENATOR LEICHTER: And, Senator,
10 if you'll yield again, was that not the same
11 rule -
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
13 Paterson, do you yield to another question from
14 Senator Leichter?
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He
17 yields.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Was that not
19 the same rule and procedure that I tried to call
20 to the attention of the Chair as being the
21 procedures of this house?
22 SENATOR PATERSON: Generally,
23 yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
25 Paterson.
3968
1 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
2 President. That was the rule I was referring to
3 and that is the rule that I'm asking for a
4 ruling as to whether or not under that rule I
5 now have a right to separate that resolution
6 from the rest of the calendar. I will now hum
7 the Jeopardy theme.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Skelos, do you wish to be heard on that point of
10 order before the Chair rules?
11 Senator Paterson, did you have
12 something that you would like to address the
13 Chair with?
14 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
15 President. You know, I was thinking about it.
16 It's really a point that I want to withdraw my
17 request for a ruling of the Chair at this time.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
19 will accept the withdrawal of the request.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
22 Skelos.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe at
24 this time there's a motion on the floor to adopt
25 the Resolution Calendar in its entirety.
3969
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That is
2 correct.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: We will now
4 debate -- have you withdrawn your motion to
5 amend?
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Paterson
8 has withdrawn his motion to amend. The only
9 motion now before the Senate is my motion to
10 adopt the Resolution Calendar in its entirety.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That is
12 correct.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: The Minority now
14 wishes to debate against that motion.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Onorato, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President,
18 I would like a little clarification. In the 15
19 years that I have been here, we've always had
20 two calendars, the Third Reading consent
21 calendar and we always had a right to lay a bill
22 aside for discussion. We've never voted on a
23 consent calendar in its entirety in one lump sum
24 without having the opportunity to vote yea or
25 nay on a given particular bill. I believe I
3970
1 should be accorded the same privilege on a
2 Resolution Calendar.
3 Now, there is a calendar -- a
4 resolution there that I would like at this
5 particular time to be laid aside and the
6 Calendar Number -- the Resolution Number that I
7 would like to be laid aside is Calendar -
8 Resolution Number JL3645 so that I can discuss
9 the Resolution Calendar number.
10 SENATOR GOLD: Can I make an
11 inquiry of the Chair, Mr. President?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me
13 just a minute, Senator Onorato.
14 Senator Gold, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. To be
16 helpful to my friend. My understanding is that
17 we are now free to discuss everything on the
18 motion calendar and then, Senator Onorato, we
19 are free to do that without your request, and I
20 think we're going to get our separate vote.
21 So maybe thanks to Senator Skelos
22 and Senator Paterson we can just do the merits,
23 Senator. We seem to be all right.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is that
25 acceptable to you, Senator Onorato?
3971
1 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. He says.
2 May I now address -
3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4 Gold, on debate on the motion to accept the
5 Resolution Calendar.
6 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very
7 much, and I'll be very brief, Mr. President.
8 I intend to vote in the negative
9 on Calendar Number 3645 with no disrespect to
10 Mr. Solomon.
11 Mr. Solomon and I have probably
12 serious political differences, but that would
13 never, never cause me to vote not to honor the
14 individual and indeed at an appropriate time if
15 I were a member of this house, which I won't be
16 at an appropriate time, I might very well be
17 able to support this resolution.
18 I only think that it's
19 premature. I think we have honored people who
20 are retiring and we wish them well and we wish
21 them good health, and I want the record to
22 indicate that in the case of Jerry Solomon, I
23 wish him good health and a happy retirement. He
24 has served this country admirably. His votes
25 may be different than mine. They're as honest
3972
1 certainly as any vote I cast and I respect that,
2 but this is improper. It is too early to do
3 this. The kind of thing we're being asked to do
4 here is a step that, I think, is in the wrong
5 direction and, therefore, Mr. President, while I
6 understand there will be a voice vote on this
7 particular resolution, my voice will be in the
8 negative on this resolution and should Mr.
9 Solomon hear about it, I want him to know that I
10 mean it not in any disrespect to him. I mean it
11 in no disrespect to the service he has given his
12 country. I just disagree with the concept of it
13 doing this.
14 I was at the opening of the
15 Benjamin Rosenthal Library at Queens College.
16 We have honored a great Congressman. It
17 happened after he died. I have been at the -- I
18 have seen Assembly Speaker Weprin honored and it
19 was after his death. I hope that Jerry Solomon
20 has many years of good health, and I think at an
21 appropriate time if the -- this chamber or the
22 Congress wants to do something by way of
23 honoring him along these lines, we do it, but it
24 is a precedent which I think is a mistake. I
25 think Senator Bruno means well, and I think
3973
1 Senator Bruno's intentions are honorable. I
2 think it is the wrong thing to do.
3 So when the time to vote comes, I
4 will be voting in the affirmative on every
5 single resolution we have left with the
6 exception of 3645 which I will vote in the
7 negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Dollinger.
10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
11 President, I'm going to join Senator Gold in
12 voting against this resolution because I can't,
13 quite frankly, believe that Jerry Solomon would
14 want this resolution to pass.
15 Jerry Solomon has a long
16 tradition of supporting veterans in the United
17 States Congress, but what this resolution seeks
18 to do is to change the name of a cemetery
19 dedicated to the greatest victory in the
20 American Revolution, the victory that changed
21 the course of the war.
22 I would suggest to you that had
23 not General Gates won that battle against
24 General Burgoyne and prevented the British from
25 dividing the colonies in half, Jerry Solomon
3974
1 would be a member of the English Parliament or a
2 Congressman in the Middle-Atlantic states of
3 America and that there would be -- we would be
4 just as fractured as Europe.
5 The reason why we stand as one
6 nation is because that battle was won by the
7 United States of America by volunteers and
8 militia from Senator Stafford's district.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
10 Stafford.
11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I won't
12 yield, Mr. President, with all due respect.
13 I'll yield at the end.
14 I would just suggest -
15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
16 Dollinger, you do have the floor.
17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would just
18 suggest, Mr. President, that the -- that the
19 Battle of Saratoga and the celebration of the
20 Battle of Saratoga which involved armed regulars
21 from the Albany area, this is a dedication to a
22 battle and a time, quite frankly, that we ought
23 to preserve and even if for some reason it's
24 just the name "Saratoga", it symbolizes a
25 battle. It symbolizes a tradition.
3975
1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse
2 me, Senator Dollinger.
3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Will Senator
4 Dollinger yield?
5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I will,
6 Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator
10 Dollinger, don't you realize that the turning
11 point in the Revolution and the reason that
12 we're here today was the Battle of Plattsburgh?
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR GOLD: But you were
15 there. (Laughter.)
16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
17 President, I applaud the member of the North
18 Country who raised this historical revision to a
19 new height but, Mr. President, on a note, I just
20 don't think that Jerry Solomon, who's done so
21 much for veterans -- he's had a distinguished
22 career. I agree with Senator Gold's comments
23 that we shouldn't do this at this time but,
24 quite frankly, Dwight Eisenhower lived in
25 Gettysburg. They never changed the name of the
3976
1 national cemetery there because it celebrates
2 another great battle and people who died for
3 this country 220-plus years ago, a whole bunch
4 of people from this country picked up arms and
5 fought off a British force and made us all
6 free.
7 Jerry Solomon has done a lot of
8 great things but he never anything as great as
9 that little group did up in Saratoga. Let's
10 keep the name "Saratoga" at the national
11 cemetery.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
13 member wishing to speak on the motion?
14 Senator Montgomery.
15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
16 President. I would just like to join my two
17 colleagues in questioning whether or not
18 Congressman Solomon wants his name there.
19 Someone came to me to ask me if
20 the Congressman was deceased and, of course,
21 it's my understanding that he's not. He's very
22 much alive and if his name appears on the gate
23 of that cemetery, people are going to
24 undoubtedly be misled to believe that he is
25 dead.
3977
1 So I'm not sure that this is a
2 good idea for us to be putting this
3 distinguished Congressman who is very much
4 alive, to put his name on the gate of a
5 cemetery.
6 So I think we should all vote
7 against it.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
9 Paterson.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
11 to close the debate on this issue, I would like
12 to point out that we seem to be expanding the
13 definition of what our resolutions memorialize
14 by the passage of this resolution.
15 What we're actually doing is
16 we're memorializing a person who is still a
17 sitting member of our House of Representatives
18 and we are commanding the Congress to pass a
19 law. There has to be some way that our Congress
20 changes the name of the Saratoga National
21 Cemetery to the Gerald B. H. Solomon Veterans
22 Cemetery, and so by doing this we are engaging
23 in a practice that I think that if we look at it
24 in a non-partisan way -- and that's the reason I
25 would like to point out, Mr. President, that I'm
3978
1 going to vote for the resolution.
2 I'm going to vote for the
3 resolution because the real intent of the
4 resolution is to honor an individual for a
5 number of years of service to their district and
6 to this state and to this country, but the
7 problem I have with the resolution is one that I
8 think can be understood and can be addressed in
9 this chamber without us having to take a vote on
10 it, that I would like to honor a Congressman,
11 Charles Rangle, from my particular district. I
12 think he's been an outstanding American.
13 Carolyn McCarthy is someone I think we might
14 honor at some point that she's retiring and we
15 might have a number of people in this chamber we
16 would like to honor, Senator Leichter on the
17 occasion of his retirement.
18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Not on a
19 cemetery.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: We might want
21 to rename -
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
23 Paterson, if we could, let's keep this motion
24 non-controversial. (Laughter.)
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
3979
1 President.
2 And so what we are just pointing
3 out is we don't want to get our resolutions
4 involved in the kind of political realm that is
5 brought to this resolution.
6 We made Martin Luther King's
7 birthday a national holiday but we didn't do it
8 for 18 years after Martin Luther King was shot.
9 The reason is in that period of time his place
10 in our national -- in our national heart became
11 such that we had to take this action.
12 The Congressman, with all due
13 respect, is still a sitting member of the House
14 of Representatives and he still has political
15 points of view. He still speaks. He is still a
16 very visible person in this particular area. To
17 take this kind of an action really is not non
18 controversial considering his current stand.
19 Why don't we let him retire. Why
20 don't we let him take his place alongside all
21 those who have preceded him in the House of
22 Representatives and then come back and decide
23 whether we want to go from honoring his
24 retirement to taking an extra step in naming a
25 national cemetery after him, especially given
3980
1 the rich history that Senator Dollinger
2 described. That was what I was going to say.
3 I'll support the motion because
4 of the great regard that Senator Bruno has for
5 the character of the individual, but I must
6 oppose the process that brings us here today and
7 the one that for so long obfuscated the
8 opportunity for me to address this issue
9 singularly as it should be.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
11 motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar with
12 the exceptions of Resolutions Number 3665 and
13 3725 which have previously been adopted. All
14 those in favor signify by saying aye.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes,
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
19 at this time I would like to withdraw my motion
20 to adopt the Resolution Calendar in its
21 entirety, and I would like to move at this time
22 to adopt the Resolution Calendar in its entirety
23 with the exception of Resolutions 3665, 3725
24 previously adopted and 3645.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
3981
1 motion is as Senator Skelos has stated to adopt
2 the Resolution Calendar with the exceptions of
3 Resolution 3665, 3725 and 3645. All those in
4 favor signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye".)
6 Opposed, nay.
7 (There was no response.)
8 The Resolution Calendar is
9 adopted unanimously with those exceptions.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
11 would like to move at this time to adopt
12 Resolution Number 3645.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
14 motion is to adopt Resolution 3645. All those
15 in favor signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye".)
17 Opposed, nay.
18 (Response of "Nay".)
19 The ayes have it.
20 The resolution is adopted.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
22 at this time on Resolutions 3730 and 3731,
23 Senator Wright and myself would like to open
24 them up for co-sponsorship. 3730 concerns
25 United States Small Business Awards and 3731
3982
1 concerns the Biotechnology Association.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Can I see
3 a show of hands of those members who would like
4 to be on the Resolution 37... it seems to be
5 multiple.
6 Senator Skelos, would you like to
7 put all the members on the resolutions with
8 those exceptions that don't wish to be on?
9 (Senator Skelos nods head.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If those
11 members who do not wish to be on either
12 Resolution 3730 or 3731 would indicate to the
13 desk afterwards, we'll make a notation.
14 Otherwise, all members will be placed as
15 co-sponsors of Resolution 3730 and 3731.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
17 housekeeping at the desk?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have
19 one substitution, Senator Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the
21 substitution.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'll ask
23 the Secretary to make the substitution.
24 The Secretary will read the
25 substitution.
3983
1 THE SECRETARY: On page 14,
2 Senator Spano moves to discharge from the
3 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 9511-A
4 and substitute it for the identical Third
5 Reading Calendar 514.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
7 substitution is ordered.
8 The Chair recognizes Senator
9 LaValle.
10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President,
11 can I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
12 the negative on Calendar Number 1081.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
14 objection, hearing no objection, Senator LaValle
15 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
16 Number 1081.
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
19 there being no further business, I move we
20 adjourn until Wednesday, June 3rd, at 11:00 a.m.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
22 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until
23 tomorrow, Wednesday, June 3rd, at 11:00 a.m.
24 (Whereupon, at 5:41 p.m., the
25 Senate adjourned.)