Regular Session - December 2, 1998

                                                              6447

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         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                   December 2, 1998

        11                      1:00 P.M.

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        13

        14                   REGULAR SESSION

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        18       LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President

        19       STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

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                                                          6448

         1                      P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                      THE PRESIDENT:  The Senate will

         3       come to order.  Would everyone please rise and

         4       join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

         5                      (The assemblage repeated the

         6       Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         7                      May we bow our heads in a

         8       moment of silence.

         9                      (A moment of silence was

        10       observed. )

        11                      THE PRESIDENT:  Reading of the

        12       Journal, please.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  In Senate,

        14       Tuesday, December 1st.  The Senate met

        15       pursuant to adjournment, Senator Farley in the

        16       chair upon designation of the Temporary

        17       President.  The Journal of Monday, November

        18       30th, was read and approved.  On motion,

        19       Senate adjourned.

        20                      THE PRESIDENT:  Without

        21       objection, the Journal stands approved as

        22       read.

        23                      Presentation of petitions.

        24                      Messages from the Assembly.

        25                      Messages from the Governor.







                                                          6449

         1                      Reports of standing

         2       committees.

         3                      Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Lack,

         5       from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

         6       following nomination:

         7                      As a Justice of the Supreme

         8       Court for the Sixth Judicial District, Samuel

         9       J. Castellino, of Elmira.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Lack.

        11                      SENATOR LACK:  Thank you, Madam

        12       President.

        13                      It is my privilege to rise and

        14       move the nomination of Samuel J. Castellino,

        15       of Elmira, as a Justice of the Supreme Court,

        16       Sixth Judicial District.

        17                      We received the nomination from

        18       the Governor this past week.  The Judiciary

        19       Committee has examined the credentials of the

        20       candidate who appeared before the Judiciary

        21       Committee this morning.  A hearing was held,

        22       and we unanimously moved to the floor of the

        23       Senate his nomination and, Mr. President, I

        24       yield for the purposes of seconding to Senator

        25       John Kuhl.







                                                          6450

         1                      THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Kuhl.

         2                      SENATOR KUHL:  Yes, Madam

         3       President.  It is my privilege and pleasure to

         4       rise on behalf of one of my constituents being

         5       elevated to this very, very important position

         6       in the service of the state of New York.

         7                      Justice Castellino, who is here

         8       today, has certainly a remarkable history in

         9       service to the residents not only of his home

        10       town of Elmira but in service to the people of

        11       the state of New York.  He is, from my

        12       perspective as a lawyer, certainly the epitome

        13       of what we all hope to be, that is a person

        14       who has served in many capacities and served

        15       them very well.

        16                      His only really, from my

        17       perspective, negative part of his resume is he

        18       went to Holy Cross, which I know stimulates

        19       Senator Stachowski's interest in this

        20       candidate, rather than going to Syracuse, but

        21       he did go to Cornell Law School, which

        22       certainly speaks well of his abilities, and he

        23       did very well there.

        24                      But as far as his history in

        25       the practice of law, it seems like he has







                                                          6451

         1       served well in most every capacity he's been

         2       in.  He was in private practice for close to

         3       30 years, and he's served as an assistant

         4       district attorney, served on the other side of

         5       the prosecutorial section of the law in that

         6       he was a public defender, and then for the

         7       last about 13 years now, has served in the

         8       capacity of County Court and Surrogate Court

         9       Judge in Chemung County.

        10                      Judge Castellino, through this

        11       nomination, I think will reach the epitome of

        12       a judicial experience, that being where he

        13       will have the opportunity to serve as a

        14       Supreme Court Justice.  The experiences that I

        15       hear from my constituents and fellow members

        16       of the bar when they're related to an

        17       association with Justice Castellino, are, in

        18       fact, very remarkable.  I, as of this date,

        19       have never heard anybody speak negatively

        20       about this candidate for the bench in any

        21       capacity.

        22                      So it's with a great deal of

        23       pride, certainly a pleasure that I stand here

        24       before all of you to second the nomination of

        25       the Governor for Samuel J. Castellino as a







                                                          6452

         1       Justice of the Supreme Court.

         2                      Thank you, Madam President.

         3                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question is

         4       on the confirmation of Samuel J. Castellino as

         5       a Justice of the Supreme Court.  All in favor

         6       please signify by saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye.")

         8                      Opposed nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      Samuel J. Castellino is hereby

        11       confirmed as Justice of the Supreme Court.

        12                      (Applause)

        13                      Reports of select committees.

        14                      Communications and reports from

        15       state officers.

        16                      Motions and resolutions.

        17                      Senator Bruno.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam

        19       President, can we at this time adopt the

        20       Resolution Calendar.

        21                      THE PRESIDENT:  All in favor of

        22       adopting the Resolution Calendar, please

        23       signify by saying aye.

        24                      (Response of "Aye.")

        25                      Opposed nay.







                                                          6453

         1                      (There was no response. )

         2                      The Resolution Calendar is

         3       adopted.

         4                      Senator Bruno.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam

         6       President, I believe that there is a

         7       privileged resolution at the desk, by Senator

         8       Leibell.  I would ask that the title be read

         9       and move for its immediate adoption.

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

        11       read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        13       Leibell, Legislative Resolution 4305,

        14       congratulating the Fox Lane High School Girls

        15       Volleyball Team and Coach Mike Galu on their

        16       outstanding season and team record on winning

        17       the New York State Public High School State

        18       Championship.

        19                      THE PRESIDENT:  The question is

        20       on the resolution.  All in favor please

        21       signify by saying aye.

        22                      (Response of "Aye.")

        23                      Opposed nay.

        24                      (There was no response. )

        25                      The resolution is adopted.







                                                          6454

         1                      Senator Bruno.

         2                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam

         3       President, I believe that I have a privileged

         4       resolution at the desk.  I would ask that the

         5       title be read and it be read in its entirety

         6       and then move for its immediate passage.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:  Secretary will

         8       read, please.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  By Senator

        10       Bruno, Legislative Resolution commending

        11       Pauline Williman upon the occasion of her

        12       completion of 20 years as the Official

        13       Stenographer of the New York State Senate.

        14                      WHEREAS, the Legislature takes

        15       great pride in honoring outstanding citizens

        16       of the Great state of New York, and especially

        17       a person who has devoted a lifetime to an

        18       industrious career and to service in the New

        19       York State Senate; and

        20                      WHEREAS, it is the sense of

        21       this Legislative Body to commend Pauline

        22       Williman upon the occasion of her completion

        23       of 20 years as the Official Stenographer of

        24       the New York State Senate;

        25                      On December 31, 1998, Ms.







                                                          6455

         1       Williman will retire as the Senate's Official

         2       Stenographer.  Ms. Williman is a life-long

         3       resident of the Capital District, having

         4       graduated as class salutatorian from Altamont

         5       High School in 1940.  While she hoped to use

         6       her love for science and mathematics in future

         7       endeavors, as is the case with many persons,

         8       her career path led in a different direction.

         9                      As a student at the Albany

        10       Stenotype Secretarial School from 1941 to

        11       1944, Ms. Williman excelled at reporting and

        12       attained a 300-word-per-minute writing speed,

        13       exceptionally fast in this service.

        14                      Ms. Williman's skills were such

        15       that she was able to take on reporting jobs

        16       for General Electric and Winthrop Chemical

        17       while completing the requirements for school;

        18       and

        19                      Whereas, a reporting company

        20       owned by New York City attorney James Beasley

        21       hired Ms. Williman in 1942 and almost

        22       immediately assigned her to work under the

        23       direction of state Senator Arthur H. Wicks;

        24       Senator Wicks was chairman of the Senate

        25       Finance Committee at the time and was deeply







                                                          6456

         1       involved in the review of Governor Thomas

         2       Dewey's nominees for state positions and with

         3       the Governor's proposed restructuring of state

         4       government.

         5                      Ms. Williman reported the

         6       minutes of many hearings while under the

         7       direction of Senator Wicks.  During the same

         8       period, Ms. Williman reported the minutes of

         9       numerous meetings and hearings regarding the

        10       creation of the State University of New York.

        11                      In 1947, Ms. Williman became

        12       the executive secretary and the office manager

        13       for the U.S. Army Reserve Officers' Associa

        14       tion of New York.  In this capacity, she was

        15       the personal secretary to Brigadier General

        16       Wendell Westover, who later became the

        17       executive for Reserve and ROTC in the U.S.

        18       Defense Department.

        19                      In 1949, Ms. Williman embarked

        20       on a career as a free-lance shorthand

        21       reporter, a career which continues today and

        22       has resulted in Ms. Williman owning and

        23       operating her own court reporting business.

        24                      Whereas, Ms. Williman has

        25       provided court reporting service to many







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         1       public and private entities statewide.  One of

         2       her more notable jobs in the early part of

         3       years of her independent business was the

         4       reporting of hearings regarding applications

         5       by large and small municipalities for water

         6       supply grants; in fact, she became so much a

         7       fixture in these hearings that she was

         8       proposed for and was accepted for membership

         9       in the American Water Works Association and

        10       was awarded, a few years ago, a 30-year

        11       lifetime membership.

        12                      One of the more visible jobs

        13       that Ms. Williman reported for was the

        14       Organized Crime Trials and related hearings,

        15       especially as related to the Appalachian Crime

        16       Summit in 1957.

        17                      In 1958, Ms. Williman became

        18       Official Reporter with the New York State

        19       Supreme Court, Third Judicial District, a

        20       position that she held until 1964 when she

        21       resigned to devote full-time to her

        22       independent business; and

        23                      Whereas, elected to be the

        24       Official Stenographer of the New York State

        25       Senate in 1979, upon the recommendation of







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         1       then-Temporary President Warren M. Anderson,

         2       Ms. Williman embarked on a 20-year journey of

         3       reporting the minutes of the proceedings in

         4       the Senate chamber and of Senate hearings

         5       across the state.

         6                      Subsequent to her election to

         7       the Official Stenographer position in 1979,

         8       Ms. Williman has been elected to nine

         9       additional consecutive two-year terms.

        10                      As the Senate's Official

        11       Stenographer, she has reported on many

        12       momentous events that have been debated in the

        13       Senate chamber and has recorded the debates on

        14       all of the thousands of bills that have been

        15       considered by the Senate during the past two

        16       decades, many of which became the law of the

        17       state.

        18                      Keeping pace with the evolving

        19       technology of court reporting, Ms. Williman

        20       upgraded her reporting equipment regularly and

        21       in 1995 began supplying to the Senate the

        22       minutes of the Senate chamber proceedings in

        23       electronic format so that the transcripts

        24       could be made available to Senate offices via

        25       the computer network; and







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         1                      Whereas, in addition to the

         2       service provided to the Senate as Official

         3       Stenographer, Ms. Williman has performed

         4       reporting services for, to name a few, the

         5       Department of Transportation, Public Employees

         6       Relations Board, State Insurance Department,

         7       Department of Environmental Conservation,

         8       Department of Law, Department of Mental

         9       Hygiene, the Office of General Services, and

        10       the Adirondack Park Agency.

        11                      Membership in the National

        12       Court Reporters' Association of the New York

        13       State Court Reporters' Association has given

        14       Ms. Williman an opportunity to actively

        15       promote the court reporting profession.  She

        16       has been an active and vocal advocate of

        17       preserving and continuing the court reporting

        18       profession.

        19                      Ms. Williman takes great pride

        20       in the fact that she has trained over 75 court

        21       reporters who have gone on to hold responsible

        22       reporting positions from New Hampshire to

        23       Texas and Washington, D. C. to Montana; and

        24                      Whereas, the list of notables

        25       for whom she has recorded their statements







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         1       seems to be endless, but naming a few would

         2       include President Harry Truman, United Nations

         3       Secretary General Dag Hammarskjold, New York

         4       Yankee pitcher,"Lefty" Gomez and all Governors

         5       of the state since Thomas Dewey.

         6                         Ms. Williman, by her own

         7       estimate, has traveled over five million miles

         8       while carrying out the tasks of the thousands

         9       of large and small reporting jobs that she has

        10       completed.

        11                         Court reporting duties have

        12       enveloped Ms. Williman for well over 55 years,

        13       but she has had time for other activities.

        14       She has been an active community member of the

        15       Hill Towns of Albany County, been a member of

        16       the Second Reformed Church of Berne; Kiwanis

        17       Club of the Helderbergs, past president; the

        18       Business Council of New York State; Albany

        19       County Farm Bureau and other various civic and

        20       community organizations.

        21                      Hobbies include golf,

        22       gardening, snowmobiling, walking, music,

        23       reading, the New York Yankees and the Green

        24       Bay Packers; and

        25                      Whereas, it is the desire of







                                                          6461

         1       this legislative body to give recognition and

         2       thanks to someone who has faithfully served to

         3       assure that the proceedings in this chamber

         4       have been accurately recorded during the past

         5       20 years; now, therefore, be it

         6                      Resolved that this legislative

         7       body pause in its deliberations to commend

         8       Pauline Williman upon the occasion of her

         9       retirement after two decades of dedicated

        10       service as the Official Stenographer of the

        11       New York State Senate; and be it further

        12                      Resolved that a copy of this

        13       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        14       to Pauline Williman.

        15                      THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno.

        16                      SENATOR BRUNO:   Madam

        17       President and colleagues, we have just heard a

        18       remarkable dissertation on the life of one

        19       individual, and I am honored to stand here and

        20       say to Pauline and to say to you, Pauline, on

        21       behalf of my colleagues and myself, thank you.

        22       Thank you, thank you, thank you.

        23                      Pauline is here in this chamber

        24       longer than any individual.  When we're

        25       working and have worked hour after hour, after







                                                          6462

         1       hour, I don't know about you, but I have been

         2       amazed that Pauline would sit there and do her

         3       job with such professionalism, with such

         4       efficiency; and when many of us mumble and

         5       grumble and get into exchanges, Pauline gets

         6       every word, every hesitation.  And if you

         7       hiccup, it will be recorded as part of what

         8       you have been saying.

         9                      Now, if anyone doesn't

        10       recognize the talent, the art form that is

        11       represented in doing an outstanding, excellent

        12       job, then they ought to just take a look at

        13       what Pauline Williman does on behalf of this

        14       Legislature.

        15                      I've known Pauline for I don't

        16       know how many years. I believe we first met

        17       when I was on staff with Speaker Perry Duryea,

        18       when I was one of the high-paid staff people

        19       and doing better than I'm presently doing, let

        20       me say.

        21                      (Laughter)

        22                      But, Pauline, you know that

        23       times change and everything changes and

        24       eventually, we catch up.  But I really want to

        25       congratulate you.   You have a lot of years in







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         1       front of you to do the kinds of things that

         2       you'll see fit to do with your life, but I

         3       want to congratulate you, not really just for

         4       the excellence that you've demonstrated here

         5       with us on our behalf, but for the example

         6       that you are for people in this state as an

         7       entrepreneurial woman who has been an employer

         8       of hundreds of people in Upstate and

         9       throughout this state who really exemplifies

        10       what the spirit here in America is all about,

        11       about a person who does something and does it

        12       in such an outstanding way that she is head

        13       and shoulders above anyone else in her field;

        14       and there aren't too many people that should

        15       be or can be as proud as you should be about

        16       the work that you have done, about the example

        17       that you have set, about the leadership that

        18       you have exemplified for your employees, for

        19       people here in this chamber.

        20                      And I will challenge anyone

        21       here to try and live up to the standard that

        22       Pauline has set for us in terms of diligence,

        23       attention, responsiveness, and just doing what

        24       is right in such a talented and outstanding

        25       way.







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         1                      So, on behalf of everyone here,

         2       Pauline, and from the bottom of our hearts,

         3       let us just say a heartfelt thank you very,

         4       very much for being here with us.  And I would

         5       ask, Madam President, that we accept and adopt

         6       this resolution and that my colleagues join me

         7       in a standing ovation to Pauline Williman.

         8                      (Applause and standing

         9       ovation.)

        10                      THE PRESIDENT:   Senator Cook.

        11                      SENATOR COOK:  Not to be

        12       anticlimactic to that great presentation by

        13       Senator Bruno and the applause that Pauline

        14       received -- and I want to wait for a second.

        15                      Pauline was, at one point in my

        16       life, a constituent and I simply want to rise

        17       and recognize her in that capacity, not as my

        18       constituent, but as a leader in the town of

        19       Knox where her ability through the years has

        20       been something that has been a great service

        21       to all of her neighbors and friends.  There

        22       really are very few towns in this state who

        23       have a resident who is as knowledgeable about

        24       such a broad range of public law and public

        25       policy as is Pauline because of all the things







                                                          6465

         1       in which she's been involved through the years

         2       and she's made that available to the people in

         3       her community and she's been a real leader.

         4                      Time after time when community

         5       issues have come to the surface, it's been

         6       Pauline who's been there, provided the

         7       expertise and the background for her neighbors

         8       who've been dealing with some issue of public

         9       policy in the town of Knox.

        10                      So totally aside from the fact

        11       that she's been a very, very warm and close

        12       and valuable and dear friend for these 25

        13       years, aside from that, Pauline, we do

        14       congratulate you, in fact, for all of the

        15       service you've been to your neighbors.  Thank

        16       you.

        17                      THE PRESIDENT:   Thank you.

        18                      Would anyone else care to speak

        19       on the resolution?

        20                      Senator Paterson.

        21                      SENATOR PATERSON:   Thank you,

        22       Madam President.  On behalf of Senator Connor,

        23       we would like to thank Pauline for her years

        24       of service and her tireless devotion,

        25       particularly some of the occasions that we







                                                          6466

         1       went from one day right into the other,

         2       continually talking and engaging in diatribe

         3       in this chamber.  And I sometimes wonder how

         4       many of you in the front of the room are able

         5       to put up with it, but it is in thanking you

         6       that we really thank all of the staff here for

         7       their work and devotion to allowing us to

         8       perform the functions of our duties here as

         9       Senators.

        10                      But in this specific case,

        11       Senator Stachowski reminded me to let you

        12       know, Pauline, that if any of us was ever

        13       doing 65 to 70 miles an hour on the Thruway,

        14       that we always knew that the radar gun would

        15       get you and not us and that we did appreciate

        16       you for that, as well as the tremendous work

        17       that you've done.

        18                      You'll certainly be missed.

        19       You certainly already are appreciated; and

        20       again, as much as we reward people for doing

        21       their jobs, what we probably don't do is to

        22       recognize people that do their jobs so

        23       effectively as the Majority Leader pointed

        24       out; and in this kind of small way -- and it's

        25       not a difficult thing to get up and to thank







                                                          6467

         1       people for their work, but to let you know

         2       that the spirit of what we're saying will be

         3       remembered and will be discussed long after

         4       you've left the chamber.

         5                      So, congratulations and best

         6       wishes.

         7                      THE PRESIDENT:   Thank you.

         8                      Senator Smith.

         9                      SENATOR SMITH:   Thank you,

        10       Madam President.

        11                      On behalf of the women of this

        12       chamber, I would like to say to Pauline that

        13       she has truly been a role model for all of us.

        14       And she has been there with a kind word when

        15       many of us needed it and when we felt a little

        16       depressed; but I also want to commend her for

        17       her love of her family and the time that she

        18       spends with her nieces, nephews and all that

        19       she gives to everybody because she is truly

        20       going to be missed by all of us.  And the one

        21       thing that we most wish that she had missed

        22       was some of the things that we've said in this

        23       chamber.

        24                      THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.

        25                      Senator DeFrancisco.







                                                          6468

         1                      SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:   I think

         2       all has been said that should be said, but I

         3       want to just make one observation, Pauline.

         4       Senator Bruno mentioned that you've raised the

         5       standard of stenographic reporting for

         6       everybody in that field and the observation

         7       that I'd like to make, you are the only one in

         8       this state that could possibly have drawn five

         9       T.V. cameras, all the photographers and a

        10       gallery full of people to honor you today on

        11       this special day.

        12                      (Applause.)

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:   The question

        14       is on the resolution.  All in favor, please

        15       signify by saying aye.

        16                      (Response of "Aye.")

        17                      Those opposed, nay.

        18                      (There was no response.)

        19                      The resolution is adopted.

        20                      Senator Bruno.

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Madam

        22       President-- I'm sorry, Senator Farley, do you

        23       have some comment to make?

        24                      SENATOR FARLEY:  Yes.  Was the

        25       resolution open to everyone?







                                                          6469

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:   That

         2       resolution hopefully will be joined by the

         3       entire Senate.  If anyone feels otherwise, you

         4       can approach the desk.  But thank you, Senator

         5       Farley.

         6                      Madam President, can we at this

         7       time ask for an immediate meeting of the Rules

         8       Committee in Room 332, and I would ask my

         9       colleagues just be patient for a few minutes,

        10       I don't think we will be more than five or ten

        11       minutes with a Rules Committee report, which

        12       we will then address.

        13                      THE PRESIDENT:   There will be

        14       an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        15       Room 332, and the Senate will stand at ease.

        16                      (The Senate stood at ease from

        17       1:35 p.m. to 1:47 p.m.)

        18                      SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr. President.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       house will come back to order, please.

        21                      SENATOR SKELOS:   Can we return

        22       to reports of standing committees?   I believe

        23       there's a report of the Rules Committee at the

        24       desk; I ask it be read.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:







                                                          6470

         1       Secretary will read the report of the Rules

         2       Committee.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

         4       from the the Committee on Rules, reports the

         5       following bills:

         6                      7855-A, by Senator Volker, an

         7       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and

         8       Chapter 383 of the Laws of 1998;

         9                      7859-B, by Senator Volker, an

        10       act to amend a chapter of the Laws of 1998;

        11                      7866-A, by Senator Larkin, an

        12       act to amend Chapter 464 of the Laws of 1998;

        13                      7867, by Senator Liebell, an

        14       act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law;

        15                      7868-B, by Senator Velella, an

        16       act to amend the Insurance Law;

        17                      7870, by Senator Saland, an act

        18       to amend the Social Services Law and the

        19       Family Court Act; and

        20                      7871, by the Senate Committee

        21       on Rules, an act to extend the period for

        22       filing applications for the school tax relief

        23       exemption.

        24                      All bills ordered direct for

        25       third reading.







                                                          6471

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         2       Senator Skelos.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:   Move to

         4       accept the report of the Rules Committee.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   All in

         6       favor of accepting the report of the Rules

         7       Committee, signify by saying aye.

         8                      (Response of "Aye.")

         9                      Opposed, nay.

        10                      (There was no response.)

        11                      SENATOR SKELOS:   Mr.

        12       President, there will be an immediate

        13       conference of the Majority in the Majority

        14       Conference Room, and Senator Bruno indicates

        15       that we should be back in about 20 minutes.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        17       Immediate conference of the Majority in Room

        18       332.  Room 332.

        19                      SENATOR SKELOS:   Please

        20       recognize Senator Mendez.

        21                      SENATOR MENDEZ:   Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.  There will be a Democratic

        23       Conference in Room 314 right after.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   And an

        25       immediate Minority Conference in Room 314.







                                                          6472

         1       Majority in 332, Minority in 313.  See you in

         2       20 minutes.

         3                      SENATOR SKELOS:   Stand at

         4       ease.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Senate stands at ease.

         7                      (The Senate stood at ease from

         8       1:50 p.m. to 2:58 p.m.)

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senate will come to order.  Members will take

        11       their place.  Staff will find their place.

        12                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        13       Bruno.

        14                      SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,

        15       can we take up the non-controversial reading

        16       of the Rules report?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        18       Secretary will read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        20       Number 1668, by Senator Volker, Senate Print

        21       7855-A, an act to amend the Vehicle and

        22       Traffic Law and Chapter 383 of the Laws of

        23       1998.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          6473

         1                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.

         2       This act shall take effect on the same date

         3       and be subject to the same provisions as

         4       Chapter 383 of the Laws of 1998c.

         5                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         6       Call the roll.

         7                         (The Secretary called the

         8       roll.)

         9                         THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        10                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        13       Number 1669, by Senator Volker, Senate Print

        14       7859-B, an act to amend a chapter of the Laws

        15       of 1998 amending the Penal Law.

        16                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will Read the last section.

        18                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 8.

        19       This act shall take effect immediately.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21       Call the roll.

        22                         (The Secretary called the

        23       roll.)

        24                         THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        25                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The







                                                          6474

         1       bill is passed.

         2                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

         3       Number 1671, by Senator Liebell, Senate Print

         4       7867, an act to amend the Private Housing

         5       Finance Law, in relation to increasing the

         6       amount of the bond and note authorization.

         7                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read the last section.

         9                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.

        10       This act shall take effect immediately.

        11                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Call the roll.

        13                         (The Secretary called the

        14       roll.)

        15                         THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        16                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        19       Number 1672, by Senator Velella, Senate Print

        20       7868-B, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in

        21       relation to domestic life, property/casualty,

        22       reciprocal, mortgage guaranty, cooperative

        23       property/casualty and financial guaranty.

        24                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Senator Bruno.







                                                          6475

         1                         SENATOR BRUNO:   Is there a

         2       message at the desk?

         3                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       There is.

         5                         SENATOR BRUNO:  Move to

         6       accept the message.

         7                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

         8       motion is to accept the message of necessity

         9       on Calendar 1672.

        10                         All those in favor, signify

        11       by saying aye.

        12                         (Response of "Aye.")

        13                         Opposed, nay.

        14                         (There was no response.)

        15                         Message is accepted.

        16                         SENATOR LEICHTER:   Lay it

        17       aside, please.

        18                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   Lay

        19       the bill aside.

        20                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        21       Number 1674, by Senator Saland, Senate Print

        22       7870, an act to amend the Social Services Law

        23       and the Family Court Act, in relation to

        24       reasonable efforts.

        25                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Lay it







                                                          6476

         1       aside.

         2                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         3       Senator Bruno.

         4                         SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a

         5       message at the desk?

         6                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         7       There is.

         8                         SENATOR BRUNO:   Move to

         9       accept the message.

        10                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        11       motion is to accept the message of necessity

        12       on Calendar 1674, which is at the desk.  All

        13       in favor, signify by saying aye.

        14                         (Response of "Aye.")

        15                         Opposed, nay.

        16                         (There was no response.)

        17                         The message is accepted.

        18                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Lay it

        19       aside, please.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        21       bill is laid aside.

        22                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        23       1675, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        24       Print 7871,  an act to extend the period for

        25       filing applications.







                                                          6477

         1                         SENATOR BRUNO:   Is there a

         2       message at the desk?

         3                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       There is.

         5                         SENATOR BRUNO:   Move to

         6       accept the message.

         7                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

         8       motion is to except the message of necessity

         9       on Calendar 1675, which is at the desk.  All

        10       those in favor, signify by saying aye.

        11                         (Response of "Aye".)

        12                         Opposed, nay.

        13                         (There was no response.)

        14                         The message is accepted.

        15                         The bill is before the

        16       house.   The Secretary will read the last

        17       section.

        18                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.

        19       This act shall take effect immediately.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21       Call the roll.

        22                         (The Secretary called the

        23       roll.)

        24                         THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58.

        25                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The







                                                          6478

         1       bill is passed.

         2                      Senator Oppenheimer, why do you

         3       rise?

         4                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   I was

         5       just going to question, did you read 1670?

         6

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   No, we

         8       did not.

         9                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   Thank

        10       you.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator

        12       Bruno, that completes the non-controversial

        13       reading of the Rules report calendar.

        14                      SENATOR BRUNO:   Mr. President,

        15       can we at this time have the controversial

        16       reading of the Rules report?

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        20       Number 1672, by Senator Velella, Senate Print

        21       7868-B, an act to amend the Insurance Law.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:   Lay it aside.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   Lay

        24       the bill aside.

        25                      SENATOR BRUNO:   Can we at this







                                                          6479

         1       time call up Calendar Number 1674?

         2                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

         5       Number 1674, by Senator Saland, Senate Print

         6       7870, an act to amend the Social Services Law

         7       and the Family Court Act.

         8                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         9       Senator Saland, an explanation of Calendar

        10       1674 has been requested by Senator Dollinger.

        11                         SENATOR SALAND:   Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                         Mr. President, this bill is

        14       a Governor's program bill.  It is an effort on

        15       the part of the Governor and this body to

        16       conform with the federally adopted

        17       legislation; the legislation was adopted in

        18       November of '97, the Adoption and the Safe

        19       Families Act.

        20                         Basically what this bill

        21       attempts to do, proposing to do, is to elevate

        22       to the paramount consideration the health and

        23       safety of a child, whether it be in terms of

        24       adoption,

        25       whether it be in terms of foster care or







                                                          6480

         1       whether it be in terms of child protective

         2       services.

         3                         And while previously the

         4       standard in the state of New York which was of

         5       paramount concern was the reunification of a

         6       family, in order to comply with the federal

         7       law and failure to comply, which will result

         8       in the loss of some 650-plus million dollars,

         9       but in order to comply with the federal law,

        10       we have to adopt again, as our paramount

        11       standard, the safety and health of a child.

        12                         And that is not to say that

        13       we divorce ourselves from the importance of

        14       reunifications of families, but in those cases

        15       where it is determined that the health -- I'm

        16       sorry, that the safety and well-being of a

        17       child requires either a termination of

        18       parental rights or whether it requires some

        19       intervention on the part of child protective,

        20       that, in fact, the reunification of the family

        21       will, in fact, have to take a back seat.

        22                         There are a number of

        23       changes that are contained in this

        24       legislation.  What we do, among other things,

        25       is require that if a child is in foster care







                                                          6481

         1       for 15 out of 22 months,

         2       we permit, as the federal law requires, that a

         3       termination of parental rights petition may be

         4       filed.

         5                         We require, in addition,

         6       that there be some new grounds for termination

         7       of parental rights; we define among them

         8       aggravated circumstances, which includes

         9       certain enumerated crimes or classifications

        10       of crimes.  We also provide some additional

        11       categories which would provide grounds for

        12       termination.  There would be criminal

        13       background checks for prospective foster and

        14       adoptive parents.

        15                         And, again, the essence of

        16       this bill, which is a bill which we must not

        17       fail to comply with simply if, for no other

        18       reason, aside from the changes in policy that

        19       will be dictated by this bill, but for the

        20       fiscal impact on the state of New York, as I

        21       said earlier, in excess of some 650 million

        22       dollars, but the essence of this bill is about

        23       children, the protection of children, and

        24       clearly adhering to the federal mandate to

        25       make of the paramount policy consideration by







                                                          6482

         1       this state and 49 others the safety and

         2       well-being of a child.

         3                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   Is

         4       that explanation satisfactory, Senator

         5       Dollinger?                  SENATOR DOLLINGER:

         6          Mr.  Chairman, I don't know whether there

         7       are any other members from this side who had

         8       questions, but I had a couple for Senator

         9       Saland, if he would yield to a couple

        10       questions.

        11                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Senator Saland, do you yield to a question

        13       from Senator Dollinger?

        14                         THE SECRETARY:   Yes, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:  This is

        19       a bill that I hadn't seen until today, so some

        20       of these may be simple prefatory questions.

        21       For example, on page 4, there are a list of

        22       aggravated circumstances which would allow a

        23       court, in the absence of any other finding, to

        24       disqualify or remove from the parent a child.

        25       Aggravated circumstances would give, as I







                                                          6483

         1       understand this bill, Senator, would give the

         2       courts the ability to remove the child or

         3       terminate the parental rights upon a finding

         4       of any one of these violations, is that

         5       correct?

         6                         SENATOR SALAND:   The -

         7       what the essence of the aggravated

         8       circumstances goes to -- and you have a list

         9       of some very severe crimes -- is that there

        10       would no longer be a requirement that you make

        11       a reasonable effort to reunify the family.

        12                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Again,

        13       through you, Mr. President, if Senator Saland

        14       will continue to yield.

        15                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        16       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield to

        17       Senator Dollinger?

        18                         SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Senator yields.

        22                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I

        23       appreciate that explanation.  As I've often

        24       asked in other bills we have done, that bill

        25       includes criminal solicitation as defined in







                                                          6484

         1       Article 100 of the Penal Law, does that

         2       include criminal solicitation that may only be

         3       a violation, therefore, we'd simply issue an

         4       appearance ticket to the parent on that issue

         5       and yet that would be sufficient a finding

         6       that there was a violation,

         7       they were guilty of a violation, not a crime,

         8       but just a violation, would that be sufficient

         9       to constitute aggravated circumstances?

        10                         SENATOR SALAND:   I think if

        11       you read a bit further and look at the

        12       language in line 19, it talks in terms of

        13       soliciting or facilitating any of the

        14       foregoing crimes.  So I would think by

        15       definition, we are limiting ourselves to

        16       crimes and it would not apply to a violation,

        17       in as much as a violation is not a crime.  It

        18       would apply to misdemeanors, would apply to

        19       felonies.

        20                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Again,

        21       through you, Mr. President.

        22                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        23       Senator Dollinger.

        24                         SENATOR SALAND:   And again,

        25       I would just -- for purposes of responding yet







                                                          6485

         1       further, what this is part of the federal

         2       requirement.

         3                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Okay.

         4                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         5       Senator Dollinger, the chamber appeared to be

         6       a little noisy; I was trying to get a little

         7       control here so we could have the adherence of

         8       your discussion.

         9                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I

        10       appreciate that, Mr. President.

        11                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        12       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

        13                         SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senator continues to yield.

        17                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   The

        18       specific crimes that are listed here,

        19       solicitation, facilitation and conspiracy, all

        20       are derivative violations, they are violations

        21       in which the individual who's charged has not

        22       necessarily committed the crime they have

        23       taken an overt act, either in the solicitation

        24       of the crime, or the facilitation of the

        25       crime, they are not actually engaged in the







                                                          6486

         1       underlying crime itself.

         2                         My question is, Mr.

         3       President, is that required by federal law

         4       that it go that far, all the way to

         5       facilitation and conspiracy and solicitation?

         6                         SENATOR SALAND:   Attempt,

         7       conspiracy and solicitation are expressly in

         8       the

         9       federal mandate.

        10                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Okay.

        11                         Again, through you, Mr.

        12       President.

        13                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

        15                         SENATOR SALAND:   Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The

        18       Senator continues to yield.

        19                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Just

        20       let me make sure I understand.  If a parent is

        21       found guilty of a violation, which I believe

        22       the sixth degree of criminal solicitation is

        23       defined in Article 100 of the Penal Law as a

        24       violation, simple violation, no jail time,

        25       minor fine, minor violation of the law, not







                                                          6487

         1       even a misdemeanor, not even a crime under New

         2       York law, if they are found guilty of one of

         3       those as defined in Article 100, solicitation,

         4       there's a chance that their parental rights

         5       could be cut off by a court upon that finding.

         6                         SENATOR SALAND:   The

         7       solicitation -- and unfortunately I don't have

         8       the Penal Law in front of me -- relates back

         9       to

        10       each of the enumerated crimes, so if somebody

        11       attempts -- conspires, solicits or facilitates

        12       or attempts to do so with respect to murder in

        13       the second degree, manslaughter in the first

        14       degree, manslaughter in the second degree and

        15       so on, through all those enumerated crimes,

        16       yes, under this bill and pursuant to what has

        17       been required of us by way of the federal

        18       mandate, that person is -- stands to find

        19       themselves at great risk.

        20                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Okay.

        21       Again, through you, Mr. President, just to use

        22       another example, suppose a child is killed in

        23       a gun accident and there's a finding of

        24       criminal manslaughter against someone who was

        25       playing with a gun involving another child and







                                                          6488

         1       yet it was the parent who made the gun

         2       available to the child, there might be an

         3       instance in which they had facilitated the

         4       crime of manslaughter.  Under those

         5       circumstances, would the parents, finding that

         6       they had facilitated this terribly regrettable

         7       act for which there is some criminal

         8       liability, would that be sufficient to

         9       disqualify the parent from terminating their

        10       parental rights?

        11                         SENATOR SALAND:   The

        12       language

        13       at the beginning of that paragraph beginning

        14       at line 8 says the parent of such child has

        15       been convicted.  So, again, had the parent

        16       been convicted, yes, the situation which you

        17       describe would occur.  Had the parent, for

        18       some reason or other, been guilty of some act

        19       of omission for which there were no criminal

        20       charges, the answer would assumedly be no.

        21                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Okay.

        22       Again, through you Mr. President.

        23                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        24       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

        25                         SENATOR SALAND:   Yes, Mr.







                                                          6489

         1       President.

         2                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The

         3       Senator continues to yield.

         4                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   I

         5       understand that explanation; I'm not quite

         6       sure I read it that way, but I'll address that

         7       in my remarks.

         8                         Let me call your attention

         9       to the sections that allow the termination of

        10       parental rights as contained in subdivision 6

        11       which is on page 5.  My question here is, this

        12       says that if there is evidence that a child

        13       has

        14       been abandoned, then you may terminate

        15       parental rights.  What happens to the parent's

        16       child support obligation when that happens?

        17                         SENATOR SALAND:   The

        18       section to which you're referring is foster

        19       care review -

        20                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Right,

        21       but -

        22                         THE SECRETARY:   Not

        23       termination, this is foster care review.

        24                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   But my

        25       question is, what happens if a parent's rights







                                                          6490

         1       are terminated and that parent is paying child

         2       support on behalf of the child?  It would seem

         3       to me that you can't be forced to pay child

         4       support for a child that you no longer have

         5       any parental rights over.

         6                         SENATOR SALAND:   Under the

         7       existing federal law, if you remain in foster

         8       care, nowithstanding the fact that there has

         9       been a termination, you remain obligated for

        10       support payments until the child has been

        11       adopted.

        12                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Is that

        13       again, through you, Mr. President.

        14                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield to

        16       Senator Dollinger?

        17                         SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        18       President.

        19                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Is that

        20       true as a matter of state law or federal law?

        21                         SENATOR SALAND:   Federal

        22       law.

        23                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   I guess

        24       I find that intriguing, but I'll certainly

        25       accept that.







                                                          6491

         1                         One final question, and

         2       again, Senator Saland, I can't -- I just read

         3       this very quickly, as quickly as I could.  Are

         4       there any additional appropriations in this

         5       bill that go directly to family courts in this

         6       state because of the enormous mandate that

         7       we're now presenting them with for the very

         8       complicated adjudications that are necessary

         9       to reach the complicated, difficult, trying

        10       decisions that this bill requires to terminate

        11       parental rights?  Are we going to give them

        12       any family court judges, are we going to

        13       create any more personnel, are we going to

        14       allow more social services money for reports

        15       and investigations that are at the heart of

        16       this bill?

        17                         SENATOR SALAND:   The

        18       reviews that are required under this bill

        19       remain substantially the same other than the

        20       new responsibility for a 30-day hearing where

        21       there are issues of compelling circumstances.

        22                         Assumedly, if there is a

        23       need to provide additional dollars, we

        24       certainly can address this in as much as it is

        25       not effective until the beginning of the next







                                                          6492

         1       year.  We certainly should be able to address

         2       that in the course of the adoption of the

         3        '99-2000 budget.

         4                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:

         5       Finally, Mr. President, if I could, just one

         6       final question, Senator Saland, and I respect

         7       your opinion on this because I know you've

         8       done so much work in family support and in

         9       family issues.  Are you convinced that there

        10       is evidence in this state that our current

        11       policy favoring parental rights and favoring

        12       the recreation and re-establishment of

        13       families has been ineffective sufficient to

        14       justify us to change that policy and adopt

        15       this federally- mandated system from

        16       Washington that this is the right thing to do

        17       in Albany and Syracuse and Schenectady?  I

        18       mean, is it right for us to take a federal

        19       mandate?

        20                         I know, Senator Saland, that

        21       it comes with that lure of money attached to

        22       it, but has our system worked so poorly that

        23       we should buy the federal solution devised in

        24       Washington to replace our judgment on this

        25       issue of parental involvement in families?







                                                          6493

         1                         SENATOR SALAND:   Well, I

         2       must share with you my sense that I generally

         3       do not like the idea of having

         4       one-size-fits-all solutions imposed upon us by

         5       people who profess enormous wisdom in

         6       Washington.  Nonetheless, we find ourselves,

         7       along with 49 other states, in a situation in

         8       which if we fail to comply -- we don't have to

         9       comply, but if we don't comply, we're going to

        10       lose 650-plus million dollars in Title IV(e)

        11       money.

        12                         The reality is that children

        13       do languish far too long in foster care; there

        14       is much evidence of that.  This is an effort

        15       to try and move children out of foster care

        16       into more permanent settings much more

        17       rapidly; and there is also evidence and

        18       certainly there has been, either anecdotally

        19       or by way of reports in major media when it

        20       comes to questions of child protection,

        21       reports of very horrible incidents

        22       having occurred because of giving primacy to

        23       family reunification and not to the safety of

        24       a child.

        25                         I would have welcomed the







                                                          6494

         1       opportunity to get us here in some similar

         2       fashion, maybe not necessarily in the exact

         3       same fashion, and have done it as state policy

         4       without this --  certainly not a carrot, it's

         5       a stick being used on us by the federal

         6       government that certainly is a very critical

         7       and added impetus that is going to require us

         8       to do this.

         9                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Thank

        10       you very much, Mr. President.  I greatly

        11       appreciate that Senator Saland -- and let me

        12       just address the bill quickly and give you my

        13       sense of it.

        14                         I think you properly

        15       characterize this, Senator Saland, as this is

        16       a partially-funded mandate from Washington.

        17       I can't believe that the Congress in

        18       Washington which is so convinced that we ought

        19       to have 50 states experimenting has now given

        20       us this partially-funded mandate.

        21                         Why do I say

        22       partially-funded?  Senator Saland is correct,

        23       there's a 650 million dollar lure to this, but

        24       I think the cost of

        25       doing this to our family courts is going to be







                                                          6495

         1       substantially greater than that.  We're going

         2       to need additional judges.  I know in my own

         3       home county, and Senator Nozzolio and Senator

         4       Alesi and I have been working on putting a

         5       sixth family court judge to work in Monroe

         6       County.   I know there are other counties that

         7       need county court judges in Upstate to handle

         8       the enormous number of petitions that are

         9       filed currently.   It's only going to expand

        10       here.

        11                         This sets a rubric for

        12       terminating parental rights that's going to

        13       have to be rigorously followed by our courts

        14       which is going to consume more resources.

        15       This is a partially-funded mandate, and I'm

        16       concerned, Senator Saland, because I know as

        17       you do that there is episodic evidence that we

        18       put kids in foster care too long and that too

        19       often they get lost in that system and we

        20       don't, in many cases, terminate those parental

        21       rights quickly enough and we end up with a

        22       situation where parents are attempting to get

        23       control back over their child long after

        24       they've abandoned them and it aggravates the

        25       tensions faced by our family courts and by our







                                                          6496

         1       whole family support system.

         2       But, I'm not willing to suggest that this

         3       solution devised in Washington is the right

         4       thing to do in New York.

         5                         This is contrary to what I

         6       thought Washington would tell us, which is to

         7       give us the money, set some targets and goals

         8       and then let us figure out how to reach them

         9       and figure out how to get there.

        10                         It seems to me it's

        11       inconsistent for this Congress in Washington

        12       to claim that they favor states' rights and

        13       they want to increase the laboratory

        14       experimentation on critical issues like this

        15       and yet here they are telling us that we have

        16       to follow these rules.

        17                         I'm concerned, Senator,

        18       because I was hoping you would give this a

        19       strong endorsement as the solution to the

        20       problem in New York and what I heard you say

        21       was it may be a solution, but we don't have

        22       enough evidence in this state to make a

        23       judgment that it will solve our problem.

        24                         And with that, even though

        25        -- even though it has the lure of 650 million







                                                          6497

         1       dollars attached to it, and even though it may

         2       have the appearance of solving this problem, I

         3       don't think that this bill does necessarily

         4       provide the solution for New York.  And, with

         5       all due respect, I'm going to vote against

         6       this bill because I think there are other

         7       serious problems with it.

         8                         But if this is the way we're

         9       going to deal with Washington and have

        10       Washington tell us how to solve our problems,

        11       I'm not convinced that the people in

        12       Washington have the sensitivity that you have,

        13       Senator Saland, to this problem in this state

        14       and I would feel much better if you had stood

        15       up and said we've come up to a solution, we've

        16       held the hearings, we've got a better idea of

        17       how to solve it.

        18                         If Washington's approach is

        19       to give us this cash lure that's going to

        20       force us all to conform with their vision of

        21       how to solve the problems of families and

        22       children, I think we're making a huge mistake.

        23

        24                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Senator Oppenheimer.







                                                          6498

         1                         SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   If I

         2       can ask a question of Senator Saland.

         3                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         4       Senator Saland, do you yield to a question

         5       from Senator Oppenheimer?

         6                         THE SECRETARY:   Yes, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Senator yields.

        10                         SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   This

        11       bill that we're dealing with today is a

        12       Governor's program bill, is it not?

        13                         SENATOR SALAND:   Yes, it

        14       is, Senator.

        15                         SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   But

        16       this is not a bill that will be or has been

        17       before the Assembly, is it?

        18                         SENATOR SALAND:   This bill

        19       has not been approved by the Assembly; and as

        20       I respond to you here today, there is no

        21       three-way agreement with respect to this

        22       particular subject.

        23                         SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   So

        24       then we may look forward to another bill and

        25       perhaps that other bill can address some of







                                                          6499

         1       the concerns that I know I have been hearing

         2       from the New York Bar Association, which

         3       principally are concerns about the children

         4       being moved too swiftly

         5       through the system, not enough attention being

         6       given to the children, and I think these are

         7       things that we might be able to discuss

         8       further when the two bills are brought

         9       together; yes?

        10                         SENATOR SALAND:   I would

        11       certainly welcome that sort of finality,

        12       keeping in mind that the clock is ticking,

        13       that our deadline is December 31st, and it's

        14       probably worth noting that the only memo I'm

        15       currently aware of that I have received with

        16       respect to this bill has been by the city of

        17       New York and that has been in favor, or in

        18       support of this bill.

        19                         SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

        20       Uh-huh.  I -

        21                         SENATOR SALAND:   Counsel

        22       just advises me we have one other and that's

        23       from PWA.

        24                         SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:   I

        25       today shipped down the -- faxed down the bill







                                                          6500

         1       to the New York bar -- City Bar Association,

         2       they wanted to see the bill.  So I think we'll

         3       be hearing from them within a day or two.  But

         4       thank you very much, Senator.

         5                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   Any

         6       other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

         7                      Senator Paterson.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                      If Senator Saland will yield.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Saland, will you yield to Senator Paterson?

        13                      SENATOR SALAND:  Certainly, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

        18       Senator.

        19                      Theoretically -- not even

        20       theoretically but perhaps more specifically,

        21       this -- the federal legislation which contains

        22       within it the lure of $650 million which

        23       Senator Dollinger was referring to earlier

        24       does contain the opting out provision whereby

        25       we would not necessarily have to include some







                                                          6501

         1       of the criminal history checks and some of the

         2       specifics that this legislation contains.

         3                      Is that true, Senator?

         4                      SENATOR SALAND:  As I indicated

         5       in my earlier remarks, Senator, while our bill

         6       complies with federal requirement provisions

         7       and you correctly point out the federal

         8       requirement, we would be able to opt out of

         9       that determination.  The determination has

        10       been made both by the Governor and his

        11       relevant staff and the Majority in this house

        12       and myself included as the Chairperson of the

        13       Senate Children and Families Committee, that

        14       we wish to avail ourselves of the opportunity

        15       of having that fingerprinting mechanism as

        16       part of the process.

        17                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        18                      If the Senator would continue

        19       to yield.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Will

        21       the Senator continue to yield?

        22                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Therefore, I

        25       guess, Senator, what you're saying is that the







                                                          6502

         1       federal government has set a threshold and in

         2       this case because we feel there might be some

         3       issues that have not been addressed by

         4       Washington, we would go beyond that threshold

         5       into a couple of these areas.

         6                      I want to just ask you a couple

         7       questions about those areas, but before I even

         8       go to that, the federal legislation itself

         9       talks about -

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Paterson.  Senator Paterson, if I might

        12       interrupt you.  I know it's getting very

        13       difficult for me to hear and if it's difficult

        14       for me to hear you, it's certainly difficult

        15       for the people trying to record your question

        16       and in your debate with Senator Saland.  I

        17       don't have any idea whether Senator Saland can

        18       hear you, quite frankly, so if I could ask the

        19       members, please, if you need to have a

        20       conversation with your staff, please ask your

        21       staff to go outside and have a conversation.

        22       If you need to have a conversation with

        23       another member, please take it outside so we

        24       may proceed so some of us can get home to do

        25       some Christmas shopping.







                                                          6503

         1                      Now, with that, please, Senator

         2       Paterson.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you,

         4       Mr. President, Senator Saland, for your

         5       willingness to yield for this question.

         6                      I'm asking you with respect to

         7       some of the aggravated circumstances that

         8       would diminish the obligation of the court to

         9       accomplish a unification between the parents

        10       and the children and also in some cases that

        11       might actually terminate parental rights.

        12                      One of the aggravated

        13       circumstances that the federal legislation

        14       addresses is the issue of domestic violence or

        15       certainly of spousal abuse and my question to

        16       you is since there's no law that actually

        17       defines that, how are we supposed to interpret

        18       from the federal law what spousal abuse or

        19       what child abuse or some type of domestic

        20       violence actually is?

        21                      SENATOR SALAND:  We have had

        22       meetings with DCJS and they have effectively

        23       compiled a list of all of the specifically

        24       enumerated categories of crime to which these

        25       types of crimes such as spousal abuse crimes







                                                          6504

         1       or child abuse crimes would be applicable.

         2                      SENATOR PATERSON:  A final

         3       question, if the Senator would continue to

         4       yield.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Saland, do you continue to yield?

         7                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senator continues to yield.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, is

        12       there any distinction between the procedures

        13       in which an adoption would be procured either

        14       through the private agencies or through the

        15       foster care system?

        16                      SENATOR SALAND:  Regrettably,

        17       Senator, I didn't hear your question in its

        18       entirety.  Could I ask you to please repeat

        19       it.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Certainly,

        21       Senator.  Is there any distinction between the

        22       procedures by which an adoption would be

        23       procured either through the private agency or

        24       through the foster care system or any of the

        25       procedures that would be followed or the







                                                          6505

         1       regulations that this bill would establish, do

         2       they differ in any way based on the manner

         3       that the adoption is accomplished?

         4                      SENATOR SALAND:  This isn't

         5       applicable to private adoptions.  Private

         6       adoptions currently require fingerprinting.

         7       The fingerprinting is generic and it's within

         8       the discretion of the court to determine if

         9       there's a hit whether or not the parent is an

        10       appropriate adoptive parent.

        11                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Criminal

        12       backgrounds, Senator -- if you'll continue to

        13       yield.  Criminal backgrounds are the same or

        14       the record checks are the same whether the

        15       adoptions are private or through the foster

        16       care system?

        17                      SENATOR SALAND:  No.  The -

        18       the crimes which are deemed relevant are

        19       categorized in this legislation for foster

        20       care and for adoptions emanating from that

        21       foster care.  Private adoptions are -

        22       currently require fingerprinting, criminal

        23       screening.  They're not categorized.  If

        24       anything they're broader but there's

        25       discretion within the judge to determine







                                                          6506

         1       whether or not that criminal record is

         2       relevant to the fitness of the parent to be an

         3       adoptive parent.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         5       Paterson?

         6                      SENATOR SALAND:  The mandate

         7       applies to agency adoptions only.

         8                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Senator, if

         9       you'd continue to yield.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Saland, do you continue to yield?

        12                      (Senator Saland nods head.)

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Would it be

        14       fair to say that in private adoptions the

        15       judge has the discretionary power, whereas in

        16       the adoptions that are secured through the

        17       foster care system we would then be relying on

        18       the specific delineated circumstances set

        19       forth in the bill?

        20                      SENATOR SALAND:  Yes, that

        21       comports with the federal mandate.

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Thank you.

        23                      Just one final question,

        24       Senator.  In a situation involving Section 125

        25       of the -- of the Criminal Code of the Penal







                                                          6507

         1       Law, and that being vehicular homicide in the

         2       second degree, in that situation, it only

         3       applies if a child is killed in the car crash,

         4       is that correct?

         5                      SENATOR SALAND:  I believe it

         6       would be applicable -- if I read correctly on

         7       page 4, I believe it would be applicable to a

         8       child -- any other child of that parent or a

         9       half sibling as well.

        10                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Then,

        11       Senator, if the prospective parent were

        12       willing to relinquish their driver's license,

        13       would that make them eligible where they

        14       otherwise would not be?

        15                      SENATOR SALAND:  Not if there's

        16       been a conviction.  I -- the parents' rights

        17       with respect to your question rise or fall on

        18       whether he or she has been convicted.

        19                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Okay.  Thank

        20       you, Senator.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       Secretary will read the last section.

        23                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 50.

        24       This act shall take effect January 1, 1999.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call







                                                          6508

         1       the roll.

         2                      (The Secretary called the

         3       roll.)

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

         5       the negatives and announce the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 55, nays

         7       3, Senators Dollinger, Leichter and Abate

         8       recorded in the negative.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                      Senator Abate, why do you

        12       rise?

        13                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Oppenheimer, do you wish to be recorded in the

        16       negative on this bill?

        17                      (Senator Oppenheimer nods

        18       head.)

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 54, nays

        20       4.  Also Senator Oppenheimer.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      Senator Abate, why do you

        24       rise?

        25                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  I'm







                                                          6509

         1       voting in the negative on this bill and I want

         2       to explain my vote.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  I

         4       suppose we can allow that to happen.  I wish

         5       you had risen 30 seconds before.

         6                      SENATOR ABATE:  I had my hand

         7       up.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Abate to explain her vote.

        10                      SENATOR ABATE:  Yes.  I have a

        11       memo by the New York State Bar Association

        12       that raise some critical issues about the

        13       complexity of the bill, the impact the bill

        14       would have on the child welfare system and

        15       they had some very reasonable suggestions to

        16       get a three-month extension so we could have a

        17       public debate before the Judiciary, the child

        18       organizations, the legal community to have a

        19       public comment to look at the options

        20       available to make sure that not only we're in

        21       compliance with the federal laws, but that we

        22       also produce a system that benefits families

        23       and children throughout this state.

        24                      I do not believe that we've had

        25       sufficient debate today, opportunity for the







                                                          6510

         1       public review and for those reasons, I'm

         2       voting against the bill.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         4       Montgomery, why do you rise?

         5                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:  Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                      I rise to vote no on this

         8       legislation and the reason being that I

         9       certainly understand Senator Saland's intent

        10       to put us in compliance, I guess you would

        11       say, with the federal law, but I do think

        12       there are some very major issues raised -

        13       being raised here in this in terms of what the

        14       bill will mean.

        15                      One in particular is there are

        16       larger and larger numbers of women who are

        17       being incarcerated for various reasons and

        18       obviously we want to make sure that in any

        19       instance where those women had been reunited

        20       successfully with their children, we don't

        21       want there to be any question that they can

        22       be, and I hope that we would be able to have

        23       more open debate and discussion on this bill.

        24       So I'm voting no for now.

        25                      Thanks.







                                                          6511

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         2       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.

         3                      Is there any other Senator

         4       wishing to cast a negative vote?

         5                      (There was no response.)

         6                      The bill is before the house.

         7                      The Secretary will read the

         8       final results.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 52, nays

        10       6, Senators Abate, Dollinger, Leichter,

        11       Montgomery, Oppenheimer and Smith recorded in

        12       the negative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                      Senator Bruno.

        16                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        17       can we call up Calendar Number 1672, please.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1672 on

        20       the Rules report.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        22       1672, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7868-B,

        23       an act to amend the Insurance Law.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Explanation.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator







                                                          6512

         1       Velella, an explanation has been requested.

         2                      SENATOR VELELLA:  This is a

         3       chapter amendment to 7488-A which we passed

         4       during the regular session earlier this year.

         5       It expanded the types of derivative

         6       instruments that insurers may purchase to

         7       hedge upward or downward movement in the

         8       marketplace.

         9                      The bill makes several

        10       technical corrections to the new law to make

        11       it operate more effectively.

        12                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Will Senator

        13       Velella yield for a question or two?

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        15       Velella, will you yield for a question?

        16                      SENATOR VELELLA:  For a

        17       question, yes.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        19       Leichter.

        20                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Okay.

        21       Senator, as I read the chapter -

        22                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Could you

        23       speak up, Senator?

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Yes,

        25       certainly.  As I read the chapter amendment







                                                          6513

         1       contained in this bill, what it seems to do is

         2       somewhat limit the right and power of the

         3       Insurance Department to pass on these

         4       derivative proposals by insurance companies.

         5       As we've seen, these derivative investments

         6       can be extremely volatile, and I just wonder

         7       what the reason and purpose is of these

         8       limitations.

         9                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Senator, it's

        10       my understanding -- and I just checked with

        11       counsel -- that, in fact, what this does is

        12       provide a mechanism for the Insurance

        13       Department to more closely scrutinize those

        14       investments, not to remove any powers from

        15       them to authorize it.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Senator, if

        19       you would continue to yield.

        20                      As I read it, this bill now

        21       imposes certain time limitation, states that

        22       if within a particular period of time the

        23       Insurance Department doesn't act on the

        24       application, the application will be

        25       approved.  I read that to be a limitation on







                                                          6514

         1       the monitoring and the supervision by the

         2       Insurance Department.

         3                      SENATOR VELELLA:  Well,

         4       Senator, like anything, it's a question of how

         5       you look at it, how you interpret it.  Is the

         6       glass half full?  Is the glass half empty?

         7       The fact that the Insurance Department's

         8       failure to act allows it to go through, I know

         9       that since we have had a new administration,

        10       the Insurance Department operates much more

        11       efficiently.  They will act on these

        12       requests.  It's not like the old Insurance

        13       Department that you knew.  This is a new one.

        14                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Leichter.

        18                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Mr.

        19       President, I don't want to prolong this

        20       debate.  Let me just briefly comment on the

        21       bill.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Leichter, on the bill.

        24                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  You know,

        25       Senator Velella, sometimes you can argue that







                                                          6515

         1       the glass is half full or half empty but when

         2       there's nothing in there, then it's all empty

         3       and the fact is that these derivatives, as you

         4       know, and as we've seen are extremely

         5       dangerous investments.

         6                      We've seen major banks lose

         7       hundreds of millions of dollars in assets in

         8       their ill-advised investment in derivatives.

         9       Now we're allowing insurance companies to

        10       invest in derivatives.

        11                      I voted against the main bill

        12       for that reason because I think it is such a

        13       dangerous type of investment but at the very

        14       least, if we're going to have these

        15       investments, if we're going to have some

        16       supervision by the Insurance Department, I

        17       wouldn't limit the time within which the

        18       Insurance Department has to act.

        19                      If you are right, Senator, and

        20       we have such an efficient Insurance Department

        21       -- I'm not saying that it isn't efficient -

        22       they'll act in due time, but it may well be

        23       that in some instances they would need more

        24       than the 45 days or whatever number of days

        25       that you permit in this chapter amendment for







                                                          6516

         1       them to review the application of an insurer

         2       to engage in derivatives.

         3                      It seems to me it's an ill

         4       advised bill.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is

         6       there any other Senator wishing to speak on

         7       the bill?

         8                      (There was no response.)

         9                      Hearing none, the Secretary

        10       will read the last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 5.

        12       This act shall take effect immediately.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        14       the roll.

        15                      (The Secretary called the

        16       roll.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        18       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 56, nays

        20       2, Senators Dollinger and Leichter recorded in

        21       the negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        23       Hoffmann, why do you rise?

        24                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Mr.

        25       President, I was out of the chamber when the







                                                          6517

         1       vote was taken on 1674.  I would -

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Hoffmann -- the bill is passed.

         4                      Senator Hoffmann, why do you

         5       rise?

         6                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  I'm sorry.

         7       Mr. President, when 1674 was taken up I was

         8       out of the chamber.  I request unanimous

         9       consent to be recorded in negative on that

        10       bill.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        12       objection.

        13                      SENATOR HOFFMANN:  Thank you.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Hearing

        15       no objection, Senator Hoffmann will be

        16       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

        17       1674.

        18                      Any other members wishing to

        19       make any adjustments to those?

        20                      (There was no response.)

        21                      Hearing none, Senator Bruno.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        24       Bruno.

        25                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Can we at this







                                                          6518

         1       time take up Bill Number 1670.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         5       1670, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 7866-A,

         6       an act to amend Chapter 464 of the Laws of

         7       1998.

         8                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

         9       Explanation, please.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       motion is to accept the message of necessity

        12       on Calendar Number 1670 which is at the desk.

        13       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

        14                      (Response of "Aye".)

        15                      Opposed, nay.

        16                      (Response of "Nay".)

        17                      The message of necessity is

        18       accepted.

        19                      The bill is before the house.

        20                      Senator Larkin, an explanation

        21       has been requested of Calendar Number 1670 by

        22       Senator Oppenheimer.

        23                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Before

        25       the discussion, may I ask the members to







                                                          6519

         1       please take their chairs, the staff to take

         2       their places.  Let's quiet the conversations

         3       down.

         4                      Senator Larkin.

         5                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Mr. President,

         6       this bill is a chapter amendment for a project

         7       that was already approved by this body and the

         8       Assembly unanimously, the 18th of June in the

         9       Senate and the 19th of June, 1998 in the

        10       Assembly unanimously.

        11                      What this bill does, it enables

        12       the Dutchess County IDA to use $80 million of

        13       federal tax exempt bond volume cap to finance

        14       a recycling facility in Ulster County.  The

        15       project will invest over $500 million, create

        16       300 permanent jobs and 1,000 construction

        17       jobs.

        18                      This bill does not in any way,

        19       shape or form change the SEQR process.

        20       Nothing can be expended in this bill, none of

        21       this $80 million until the entire SEQR process

        22       has been totally completed and approved.

        23       Okay?

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        25       Oppenheimer.







                                                          6520

         1                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  Thank

         2       you.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:  I will

         6       have to disagree with my good colleague

         7       because I think this does a lot of damage to

         8       the SEQR process by turning the process on its

         9       head instead of having -- following the SEQR

        10       process and having an environmental impact

        11       statement done at the beginning of a project

        12       before any thought of financing that project

        13       is put out and bonds are floated.  The process

        14       starts with an environmental impact.  It

        15       doesn't start with floating bonds and then

        16       saying now let's look at the environmental

        17       impact.  So I have to disagree with you in

        18       that I think it does a lot of damage by

        19       allowing bonds to be sold before the SEQR

        20       review.

        21                      This bill would actually

        22       redefine a government action calling it a

        23       non-action and it's hard to understand how a

        24       non-action could be utilized -- that word

        25       could be utilized in a project that will be







                                                          6521

         1       700 acres of waterfront in Kingston.  It will

         2       take three million gallons of water a day out

         3       of the river, Hudson River, and then return to

         4       the Hudson River after the ink is removed from

         5       the news print and that will have, we believe,

         6       certainly some potentially serious

         7       consequences to the spawning areas of sturgeon

         8       and Atlantic shad and bass.  We're not sure.

         9       We can't say this for certain but that's the

        10       purpose of the environmental impact statement,

        11       so that we find out if there will be any

        12       serious consequences.

        13                      I think we all would agree that

        14       SEQR has been enormously, enormously effective

        15       and in some ways it is our landmark

        16       conservation legislation that has been around

        17       for almost two decades and why -- why are we

        18       talking about circumventing it now?  Why are

        19       we talking about turning it upside down, and I

        20       think the fundamental principle of a

        21       comprehensive environmental review at the

        22       outside -- at the outset, the very beginning

        23       of a project is something that we shouldn't

        24       do, and that is what this law would do, and so

        25       you would say, perhaps, Well, what it does it







                                                          6522

         1       matter?  This is one instance and this is

         2       because we want to get the -- you know, the

         3       federal tax exempt bonds.

         4                      I would say that the reason we

         5       shouldn't do this is that it sets a very

         6       dangerous precedent, and I know many of us

         7       feel that there is no reason to sacrifice

         8       environmental quality for economic development

         9       even for a project that I'm sure we all would

        10       agree is a good project.  We want to see

        11       newspaper recycled.  We want to see this

        12       project going -- to go ahead, but the fact is

        13       this piece of money, this $80 million is a

        14       small piece of the total funding and the

        15       proposal -- as I understand it, the proposer

        16       has said that there are alternatives to this

        17       $80 million piece which we are to be voting on

        18       today.

        19                      So when all things are

        20       considered, I see a terrible potential

        21       precedent here.  This would be the first and

        22       there would be others that would refer to it

        23       in future years.  We don't want to damage

        24       SEQR.  It has been the best environmental law

        25       that we have had.







                                                          6523

         1                      So I'm urging a no vote.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         3       Dollinger.

         4                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Will the

         5       sponsor yield to two quick questions?

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Larkin, will you yield to two questions from

         8       Senator Dollinger?

         9                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        10       President.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  The first

        12       one, Senator, what happens if the bonds are

        13       sold and the project is never approved?

        14                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Pardon me,

        15       Richard?

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Through

        17       you, Mr. President.  What happens if the $80

        18       million in bonds are sold and as a result of

        19       the SEQR process, either there are

        20       deficiencies and it's affecting, as Senator

        21       Oppenheimer pointed out, the striped bass or

        22       the water intake from the Hudson River, the

        23       watershed or environmental -- the air that -

        24                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Is that a

        25       question, what happens to the bonds?







                                                          6524

         1                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  What

         2       happens to the $80 million in bonds?

         3                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Well, first of

         4       all, the 880 million would be held in escrow

         5       and after the environmental impact statement

         6       has gone through the entire process from A to

         7       Z, just as we said back in June when you voted

         8       for the bill, this would be refunded, the

         9       bonding would be refunded.

        10                      Richard, nothing can be spent

        11       on this in the process of the facility until

        12       every aspect of the environmental process -

        13       the SEQR process is the guiding light of this

        14       whole project.  Without the approvals from A

        15       to Z, there is no project, period, and -

        16                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

        17       Again just so I can clarify, Mr. President.

        18       If the bonds will be sold, they will be held

        19       in escrow for some period of time and then if

        20       the project eventually isn't approved, the

        21       bonds will be repaid, correct?

        22                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

        23                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Who's going

        24       to pay all the interest to the bondholders

        25       that accrues during the period of time it sits







                                                          6525

         1       in escrow?

         2                      SENATOR LARKIN:  The partners

         3       of the project, they've already agreed to that

         4       in writing to both Ulster County and Dutchess

         5       County IDAs.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Again

         7       through you, Mr. President.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Larkin, do you continue to yield?

        10                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Senator yields.

        14                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  I

        15       understand that in June we did approve a bill

        16       that would have allowed this project to get in

        17       under the cap.  My question is why wasn't the

        18       SEQR process started then?  It would be done

        19       now or close to being done now.  We wouldn't

        20       be where we are today if the application had

        21       been filed, would we?

        22                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Well, Richard,

        23       when they started this, they weren't totally

        24       sure of how long the process would take

        25       place.  As my good friend and colleague,







                                                          6526

         1       Senator Saland, and I put together there was

         2       advisory groups and they were sitting down

         3       between the multiple -- both counties that

         4       were involved in it, the municipalities that

         5       had interest and all of the others.  There

         6       were advisory boards put together so they

         7       could settle down and see where it was going.

         8       They started to realize at that time that this

         9       process, based on these initial evaluations

        10       between the numbers of members that were

        11       appointed to the board and their interest,

        12       that this process could take as high as 18 to

        13       20 months.  That would put them past 31

        14       December, at which time the 80 million cap

        15       would float away.  We couldn't roll it over.

        16       The fed's said no.  It would be lost not only

        17       to this project but to the state of New York

        18       and next year when we applied for federal tax

        19       credit bonds, people could in Washington just

        20       say, Wait a minute, New York.  You had $80

        21       million last year and you didn't use it, why

        22       should we give you extra this year?  There's

        23       no guarantee we could get that money next

        24       year.  We would have to make an application

        25       and what is the project?







                                                          6527

         1                      Richard, this project is, in

         2       essence, to be environmentally sound.  If we

         3       believe in the SEQR process, as my good friend

         4       Senator Oppenheimer said, I don't want to

         5       violate the SEQR.  I don't want to see us

         6       create anything that's not environmentally

         7       sound.  I would not support any of this if

         8       anybody would say to me that we plan to

         9       circumvent the SEQR law.  No way in Hades.

        10                      What we need to do is to make

        11       sure -- and this package that's set out here

        12       that creates a project worth $553 million, it

        13       has a -- it has 1,000 construction jobs, it

        14       has 375, but for me that's after the fact.

        15       The fact of the matter is once this is -- we

        16       would take -- should take positive action on

        17       this, then the SEQR process, based on all of

        18       the advisory groups, projects so far, would

        19       move forward but we're talking about 18

        20       months.

        21                      Everybody that we've talked to

        22       said this project will take 18 months until

        23       you get all of your evaluations and then

        24       there's approvals which could extend a couple

        25       more months.  So at that point you would see







                                                          6528

         1       the bonding move out -- not move out, be

         2       extended.

         3                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Just

         4       through you, Mr. President, one more question

         5       to Senator Larkin's comment.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         7       Larkin, do you continue to yield?

         8                      SENATOR LARKIN:  Yes.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Senator continues to yield.

        11                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Under

        12       federal law and under the federal cap, how

        13       quickly does the $80 million have to be

        14       spent?  Is there any limitation on when it can

        15       be spent?  I know it has to be approved before

        16       December 31st.  Is there a limitation on when

        17       it has to be spent?

        18                      SENATOR LARKIN:  For example,

        19       if we -- had we not had this process here and

        20       the SEQR would have been done, they could have

        21       done the bonds this year.

        22                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  But they

        23       could do that under the -

        24                      SENATOR LARKIN:  But SEQR is

        25       not going to be done now.  They can't do







                                                          6529

         1       anything with those bonds.  They can sell them

         2       immediately upon receipt of total approved

         3       SEQR process.  Not until they receive that can

         4       these bonds be valid for utilization in the

         5       project.

         6                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Okay.

         7       Thank you very much, Mr. President.

         8                      I share the concerns of my

         9       colleague, Senator Oppenheimer, and I'll be

        10       very brief.  There's some troubling

        11       allegations that have been made by opponents

        12       of this to me at least with respect to

        13       representations made by this company in the

        14       application process.

        15                      I would strongly suggest that

        16       any municipal agency or the IDAs in these

        17       counties take a good look at those.  I offer

        18       no interpretation other than to say that

        19       there's some troubling allegations about

        20       whether they've properly represented

        21       themselves in the application.  I leave that

        22       to someone else to resolve.

        23                      It seems to me the critical

        24       question here is whether our SEQR process

        25       should be bent, slightly bent in this case, to







                                                          6530

         1       achieve the goal of this project.

         2                      What I'm afraid we're doing,

         3       Senator Larkin, is you're putting a very,

         4       very, very big cart in front of a horse and

         5       what you're doing is you're saying we're going

         6       to fund this project.  We're going to sell

         7       under the cap, put these bonds in place and

         8       somehow be convinced that the fact that we've

         9       already got the money isn't going to influence

        10       the decision we make about the environmental

        11       security of this project.

        12                      I would just point out as a

        13       private practice lawyer, I have been involved

        14       in a number of SEQR cases.  They are very

        15       long.  They can oftentimes be very contentious

        16       and in many cases you don't know the outcome

        17       of the SEQR process because of the

        18       determination of the various environmental

        19       variables until you get to the end of the

        20       process and you're actually looking for those

        21       governmental approvals both from the state and

        22       local municipalities that are necessary to

        23       operate this facility.

        24                      I would just suggest that we're

        25       putting the financial cart before the SEQR







                                                          6531

         1       horse and that's a bad idea.  It would set a

         2       terrible precedent in New York and somehow

         3       suggest that there is a category of projects

         4       which are so large, so important -- I won't

         5       minimize the importance of this as an economic

         6       development tool but somehow we're going to

         7       create a big project exception and the

         8       exception we're going to create is Go ahead.

         9       Put the cart of financing ahead of the horse

        10       of SEQR process and I would submit that that's

        11       going to take a process we should all be

        12       justifiably proud of, the SEQR process of

        13       determining variables, making them a part of

        14       our decision-making, something that I know,

        15       Senator Larkin, I think you've have supported

        16       throughout your history here, a time tested

        17       process for making sure that our environment

        18       for which we may forever change in the Hudson

        19       River Valley if we build this project, that

        20       that environment is taken into account when we

        21       make this terribly important decision.

        22                      I would just submit when we put

        23       the cart before the horse, we're creating a

        24       terrible precedent in this state and we're

        25       carving out a big project exception to the







                                                          6532

         1       SEQR laws that in the long run will treat us

         2       very, very poorly.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Secretary will read the last section.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         6       This act shall take effect immediately.

         7                      SENATOR SALAND:  Mr. President,

         8       on the bill.  On the bill.  I would ask that

         9       the roll call be withdrawn.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        11       Saland, on the bill.

        12                      SENATOR SALAND:  Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                      Mr. President, I rise in

        15       opposition to this bill.  Certainly as Senator

        16       Larkin has indicated, our efforts initially

        17       earlier this year were cooperative and I can

        18       say nothing but kind things about Senator

        19       Larkin, a dear friend and colleague for a

        20       number of years, but this is -- issue has

        21       certainly galvanized considerable response in

        22       my Senate District, particularly in the

        23       northern Dutchess portion of my Senate

        24       District and much of it seems to center on

        25       what many would consider to be a precedent -







                                                          6533

         1       a dangerous precedent, an effort to get around

         2       the so-called Queensbury case, a case which

         3       was decided by the Court of Appeals back in

         4       1982 and the concerns are that if we initiate

         5       the type of action that's being requested here

         6       and we compromise SEQR, what will be next,

         7       what other exception will be required to

         8       facilitate some other worthy project or

         9       perhaps not so worthy project.

        10                      The reality is that the SEQR

        11       law certainly has stood us well.  For those

        12       who might be concerned about SEQR, certainly

        13       the form within which to deal with those

        14       issues would certainly be far broader than

        15       this attempted exception to SEQR and

        16       attempting to carve out an exception to the

        17       Queensbury case.  I have a number of

        18       municipalities in my district, the Northern

        19       Dutchess Alliance, a number of environmental

        20       groups who have been vehemently outspoken in

        21       their opposition to this proposal, and I

        22       certainly think that under the circumstances

        23       we would be ill-advised to proceed with this

        24       bill at this time.

        25                      Thank you, Mr. President.







                                                          6534

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Secretary will read the last section.

         3                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         4       This act shall take effect immediately.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the

         8       roll.)

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        10       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        12       in the negative on Calendar Number 1670 are

        13       Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,

        14       Gentile, Kruger, Lachman, LaValle, Leibell,

        15       Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula,

        16       Onorato, Oppenheimer, Padavan, Paterson,

        17       Rosado, Saland, Sampson, Santiago, Seabrook,

        18       Smith, Stachowski, Stavisky.  Ayes 34, nays

        19       25.  Also Senator Hoffmann.  Ayes 33, nays

        20       26.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      Senator Bruno, that completes

        24       the controversial reading of the Rules

        25       report.







                                                          6535

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         2       can we return to the report of the Finance

         3       Committee, and I believe that there is a

         4       report of the Finance Committee at the desk.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Return

         6       to the order of standing committees, the

         7       Secretary will read the report of the Finance

         8       Committee.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator

        10       Stafford, from the Committee on Finance,

        11       reports the following nominations:

        12                      Member of the Buffalo and Fort

        13       Erie Public Bridge Authority-(Peace Bridge):

        14       Louis J. Billittier, of Hamburg.

        15                      SENATOR STAFFORD:  Move the

        16       nomination, please.  Do them all.  Yeah, do

        17       them all.

        18                      THE SECRETARY:  As a member of

        19       the Board of Oswego Authority:  Frank E.

        20       Sayer, of Oswego and William F. Shannon, of

        21       Oswego;

        22                      Commissioner of the Ohio River

        23       Valley Water Sanitation Commission:  Douglas

        24       E. Conroe, of Maple Springs;

        25                      Members of the Thousand Islands







                                                          6536

         1       State Park, Recreation and Historic

         2       Preservation Commission:  Judith J. Foster, of

         3       Clayton and Sam F. Villanti, of Grieg;

         4                      Director of the Municipal

         5       Assistance Corporation for the city of New

         6       York:  Ann Daly Printon, of New York City;

         7                      Member of the Mental Health

         8       Services Council:  Patricia H. Ogden, of White

         9       Plains;

        10                      Members of the Board of

        11       Visitors of the Bronx Psychiatric Center:

        12       Richard Somer, of the Bronx;

        13                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        14       of the Bronx Children's Psychiatric Center:

        15       John T. Shea, of City Island;

        16                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        17       of the Hudson River Psychiatric Center:  Diana

        18       T. Andros, of Poughkeepsie;

        19                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        20       of the Letchworth Village Developmental

        21       Disabilities Services Office:  Ann Nehrbauer,

        22       of Hastings-on-Hudson;

        23                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        24       of the New York State Home for Veterans and

        25       their Dependents at Oxford:  Mary Smack, of







                                                          6537

         1       Binghamton;

         2                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         3       of the St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center:

         4       Clinton R. Matott, of Potsdam;

         5                      Member of the Board of Visitors

         6       of the Staten Island Developmental

         7       Disabilities Services Office:  Robert

         8       McCarren, of Staten Island;

         9                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        10       of the Western New York Children's Psychiatric

        11       Center:  Ramon P. Perez, of Eden; and

        12                      Member of the Board of Visitors

        13       of the Western New York Developmental

        14       Disabilities Services Office:  Ernest D.

        15       McPeek, of South Dayton.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Is

        17       there any member wishing to speak to any of

        18       the nominations?

        19                      (There was no response.)

        20                      Hearing none, the question is

        21       on the nominations before the house.  All

        22       those in favor signify by saying aye.

        23                      (Response of "Aye".)

        24                      Opposed, nay.

        25                      (There was no response.)







                                                          6538

         1                      The nominees are confirmed.

         2                      (Pause)

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       Senate will come to order.

         5                      Senator Bruno.

         6                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         7       can we at this time ask for an immediate

         8       meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        10       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        11       Committee in the Majority Conference Room, an

        12       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        13       the Majority Conference Room, Room 332, and

        14       the Senate will stand at ease.

        15                      (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        16       ease from 4:19 p.m. until 4:40 p.m.)

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Senate will come to order.

        19                      Senator Skelos.

        20                      SENATOR SKELOS:  If we could

        21       return to reports of standing committees.  I

        22       believe there's a report of the Rules

        23       Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be read.

        24       We'll return to reports of standing

        25       committees.







                                                          6539

         1                         THE SECRETARY:   Senator

         2       Bruno, from the Committee on Rules, reports

         3       the following bills directly for third

         4       reading:

         5                         Senate Print 7869, by the

         6       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

         7       Retirement and Social Security Law;

         8                         Senate Print 7872, by the

         9       Committee on Rules, an act to repeal section 2

        10       of part C of Chapter 56; and Assembly Bill

        11       6583-B, by member of the Assembly Grannis, an

        12       act to amend the Insurance Law.  All bills

        13       directly for third reading.

        14                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Senator Skelos.

        16                         SENATOR SKELOS:   Move to

        17       accept the report of the Rules Committee.

        18                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        19       motion is to accept the report of the Rules

        20       Committee.  All in favor, signify by saying

        21       aye.

        22                         (Response of "Aye.")

        23                         Opposed, nay.

        24                         (There was no response.)

        25                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The







                                                          6540

         1       report of the Rules Committee is before the

         2       house.

         3                         Senator Skelos.

         4                         SENATOR SKELOS:   Mr.

         5       President, if we can take up the Rules

         6       Committee report, non-controversial.

         7                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         8       Secretary will read.

         9                         THE SECRETARY:   In relation

        10       to Calendar Number 1673, Senator Bruno moves

        11       to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

        12       Assembly Bill 8716-B, and substitute it for

        13       the identical Senate Bill 7869.

        14                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       substitution is ordered.  Secretary will read.

        16                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

        17       Number 1673, by the Committee on Rules,

        18       Assembly Print 8716-B, an act to amend the

        19       Retirement and Social Security Law.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read the last section.

        22                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.

        23       This act shall take effect immediately.

        24                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Call the roll.







                                                          6541

         1                         (The Secretary called the

         2       roll.)

         3                         THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

         4                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

         7       Number 1676, by member of the Assembly

         8       Grannis, Assembly Print 6583-B, an act to

         9       amend the Insurance Law.

        10                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will read the last section.

        12                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.

        13       This act shall take effect immediately.

        14                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        15       Call the roll.

        16                         (The Secretary called the

        17       roll.)

        18                         THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 59.

        19                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        22       Calendar Number 1678, by the Senate Committee

        23       on Rules, Senate Print 7872, an act to repeal

        24       section 2 of part C of Chapter 56 of the Laws

        25       of 1998.







                                                          6542

         1                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         2       Senator Skelos.

         3                         SENATOR SKELOS:   Mr.

         4       President, is there a message at the desk?

         5                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         6       There is.

         7                         SENATOR SKELOS:  Move to

         8       accept.

         9                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        10       motion is to accept the message of necessity

        11       on Calendar 1678.  All in favor, signify by

        12       saying aye.

        13                         (Response of "Aye.")

        14                         Opposed, nay.

        15                         (There was no response.)

        16                         The message is before the

        17       house.  Read the last section.

        18                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.

        19       This act shall take effect immediately.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   Lay

        21       the bill aside.

        22                         Senator Skelos.

        23                         SENATOR SKELOS:   Mr.

        24       President, if we could go back to the Rules

        25       Committee report and take it up controversial,







                                                          6543

         1       which means we'll take up Calendar Number

         2       1678.

         3                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

         4       Secretary will read.

         5                         THE SECRETARY:   Calendar

         6       Number 1678, by the Senate Committee on Rules,

         7       Senate Print 7872, an act to repeal section 2

         8       of part C of Chapter 56 of the Laws of 1998.

         9                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        10       bill is before the house.

        11                         Senator Dollinger.

        12                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Mr.

        13       President, can I just have an explanation of

        14       this bill?  It's unusual and I would just

        15       appreciate to know what it involves.

        16                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        17       Senator Skelos, who are you going to have

        18       handle the explanation?

        19                         (Pause)

        20                         Senator Dollinger, you had a

        21       question?

        22                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   Yes, I

        23       do, Mr. President, and it has nothing to do

        24       with-

        25                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:







                                                          6544

         1       Senator Nozzolio is going to be handling the

         2       answer.

         3                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:   And

         4       maybe Senator Nozzolio -- I know this is an

         5       issue that substantively may affect Senator

         6       Nozzolio's Crime and Corrections Committee,

         7       but I have a broader question that deals with

         8       the procedure.  My understanding is, Mr.

         9       President, that what we're doing by this bill

        10       is repealing the language in an Article 7 bill

        11       that was vetoed by the

        12       Governor.   Why do we need to repeal language

        13       for which the Governor has already exercised

        14       his veto?

        15                         I'm not sure it's a question

        16       for Senator Nozzolio, but it's really more of

        17       a -

        18                         SENATOR NOZZOLIO:   Let me

        19       try to answer Senator Dollinger's question.

        20       As thought- provoking and as provocative as

        21       his questions often are, this question I think

        22       simply can be answered by -- that we very much

        23       want to make sure that the Senate has clearly

        24       stated their position in support of Governor

        25       Pataki's veto of that PTAC language.







                                                          6545

         1                         SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Mr.

         2       President, I accept Senator Nozzolio's

         3       explanation, but I find it intriguing because

         4       if the Senate were to approve this bill, which

         5       suggests that the language needs to be

         6       repealed, it would also suggest that Governor

         7       Pataki's veto of the language portion of this

         8       Article 7 bill was ineffective at the time it

         9       was delivered; and I would just suggest that

        10       what we're doing here is, in essence,

        11       suggesting to me, at least, that the lawsuit

        12       dealing with the repeal -- or excuse me, the

        13       veto of the Article 7 bills, one of which was

        14       this veto, that what we may be doing is

        15       suggesting that we agree with the Assembly

        16       that the effect of the veto was a nullity

        17       because it couldn't veto Article 7 language as

        18       part of the Governor's power and that what we

        19       are, in essence, doing is declaring to the

        20       people of this state that the Governor's veto

        21       had no effect and that, in fact, what we had

        22       to do as a chamber was now repeal that

        23       language, with the consent of the Assembly.

        24                         So, Senator Nozzolio, I

        25       under- stand why you substantively want to do







                                                          6546

         1       this and I think that at least from my

         2       perspective, that's a debate we could have

         3       about the substance of this, but I would just

         4       point out that I think what you're doing here

         5       today is acknowledging that the veto of the

         6       Article 7 language was ineffective and,

         7       therefore, the only way to eliminate this,

         8       remove it from state law, is to use the power

         9       of repeal which rests in the Legislature

        10       rather than the power of veto which rests with

        11       the Governor.

        12                         Under those circumstances, I

        13       think this bill may procedurally send a

        14       different message than the proponents of this

        15       suggest on the other side of the floor.

        16                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       Secretary will read the last section.

        18                         THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.

        19       This act shall take effect immediately.

        20                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        21       Call the roll.

        22                         (The Secretary called the

        23       roll.)

        24                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Record the negatives, announce the results.







                                                          6547

         1                         Announce the results.

         2                         THE SECRETARY:   Those

         3       recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

         4       1678 are Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger,

         5       Markowitz, Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,

         6       Paterson, Santiago, Seabrook, Smith,

         7       Stachowski, Stavisky also Senator Nanula.

         8                         Ayes 45, nays 14.

         9                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:   The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                         Senator Skelos.

        12                         SENATOR SKELOS:   Mr.

        13       President, there will be an immediate meeting

        14       of the Majority in the Majority conference

        15       room.

        16                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        17       There will be an immediate meeting of the

        18       Majority Conference in the Majority conference

        19       room, in the Majority conference room, room

        20       333.

        21                         Senator Paterson.

        22                         SENATOR PATERSON:   Mr.

        23       President, there will be an immediate

        24       conference of the Minority in room 314.

        25                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:







                                                          6548

         1       There will be an immediate meeting of the

         2       Minority Conference, room 314.

         3                         The Senate stands at ease.

         4                         (At 4:50 p.m., the Senate

         5       stood at ease.)

         6                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         7       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         8       take their places.

         9                         Senator Skelos.

        10                         SENATOR SKELOS:  Mr.

        11       President, there will be an immediate meeting

        12       of the Rules Committee in the Majority

        13       Conference Room.

        14                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  An

        15       immediate meeting of the Rules Committe, an

        16       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        17       the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.

        18                         The Senate will continue to

        19       stand at ease.

        20                         (Whereupon, the Senate stood

        21       at ease from 6:14 p.m. To 6:50 p.m.)

        22                         ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

        24       take their seats, the staff to take their

        25       places.







                                                          6549

         1                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         2       Bruno.

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         4       can we return to the reports of standing

         5       committees.

         6                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We'll

         7       return to the order of standing committees

         8       with the report of the Rules Committee at the

         9       desk.

        10                      We'll ask the Secretary to

        11       read.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Senator Bruno,

        13       from the Committee on Rules, offers up the

        14       following bills directly for third reading:

        15                      Senate Bill 6436-A, by the

        16       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Civil

        17       Service Law;

        18                      Senate Bill 7873, by the

        19       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

        20       Legislative Law;

        21                      7874, by the Committee on

        22       Rules, an act to repeal Section 2 of a chapter

        23       of the Laws of 1998;

        24                      7875, by the Committee on

        25       Rules, an act to amend the Legislative Law;







                                                          6550

         1                      7876, by the Committee on

         2       Rules, an act to amend the Executive Law and a

         3       chapter of the Laws of 1998;

         4                      7877, by the Committee on

         5       Rules, an act to amend the Education Law;

         6                      7878, by the Committee on

         7       Rules, an act to amend the State Finance Law

         8       and a chapter of the Laws of 1998; and

         9                      Assembly Bill 11464, by the

        10       Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend

        11       the Judiciary Law, the Executive Law and the

        12       Legislative Law.

        13                      All bills directly for third

        14       reading.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        16       motion is to accept the report of the Rules

        17       Committee.  All those in favor signify by

        18       saying aye.

        19                      (Response of "Aye".)

        20                      Opposed, nay.

        21                      (There was no respones.)

        22                      The report is accepted.

        23                      The bills are reported directly

        24       to third reading.

        25                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,







                                                          6551

         1       I move we accept the Rules report as read.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Rules report is accepted.

         4                      Senator Bruno.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         6       can we at this time call up Calendar Number

         7       1683.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1683,

        10       Senate Print 7877.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        12       1683, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        13       Print 7877, an act to amend the Education Law,

        14       in relation to establishing a charter school

        15       program.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        17       Bruno.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        19       is there a message at the desk?

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        21       is.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move to accept

        23       the message.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        25       motion is to accept the message of necessity







                                                          6552

         1       on Calendar Number 1683.  All those in favor

         2       signify by saying aye.

         3                      (Response of "Aye".)

         4                      Opposed, nay.

         5                      (Response of "Nay".)

         6                      The message is accepted.

         7                      The bill is before the house.

         8                      The Secretary will read the

         9       last section.

        10                      SENATOR MONTGOMERY:

        11       Explanation.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 26.

        13       This act shall take effect immediately.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        16       Connor.

        17                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Just briefly

        18       to explain my vote.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        20       Senator, let me call the roll so we can get

        21       the bill before the house.

        22                      The Secretary will call the

        23       roll.

        24                      (The Secretary called the

        25       roll.)







                                                          6553

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in

         2       the affirmative.

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Party vote in

         4       the negative.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will call the party votes with

         7       exception.

         8                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Without

         9       exception.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        11       Secretary will call the party line vote.

        12                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        13       Connor to explain his vote.

        14                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                      To briefly explain my vote.  I

        17       think the members of the Senate Minority in

        18       this house support innovative changes in the

        19       educational system.  I think we would like to

        20       explore in a less hurried fashion the concept

        21       of charter schools.  We want to do it in a

        22       proper way.  We want to do it so collective

        23       bargaining rights are preserved, so that we're

        24       sure that certified teachers are used and so

        25       that other concepts like the Regents control







                                                          6554

         1       of education and local control are preserved.

         2                      This bill doesn't meet that.

         3       That's why we're against it, Mr. President.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

         5       Announce the results.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34, nays

         7       25.  Party vote.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                      Senator Bruno.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        12       can we call up Calendar 1684.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will read Calendar 1684, Senate

        15       7878.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        17       1684, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        18       7878, an act to amend the State Finance Law

        19       and a chapter of the Laws of 1998.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        21       Bruno.

        22                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        23       message at the desk?

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        25       is.







                                                          6555

         1                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move to accept

         2       the message.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       motion is to accept the message on Calendar

         5       Number 1684.  All those in favor signify by

         6       saying aye.

         7                      (Response of "Aye".)

         8                      Opposed, nay.

         9                      (There was no response.)

        10                      The message is accepted.

        11                      The bill is before the house.

        12                      The Secretary will read the

        13       last section.

        14                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 6.

        15       This act shall take effect on the same date as

        16       a chapter of the Laws of 1998.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        18       the roll.

        19                      (The Secretary called the

        20       roll.)

        21                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in

        22       the affirmative.

        23                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Party vote in

        24       the negative.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                          6556

         1       Secretary will call the party line votes with

         2       exceptions.  Exceptions please raise your

         3       hands.  Keep them raised until we announce the

         4       results.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 38, nays

         6       21.  Party vote with exceptions.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will announce the exceptions.

         9                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        10       in the affirmative are Senators Dollinger,

        11       Gentile, Senator Hoffmann, Senator Nanula and

        12       also Senator Oppenheimer.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        14       Announce the updated results.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 39, nays

        16       20.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                      Senator Bruno.

        20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        21       can we at this time call up Calendar Number

        22       1677.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1677.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number







                                                          6557

         1       1677, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

         2       Assembly Print 11464, an act to amend the

         3       Judiciary Law, the Executive Law and the

         4       Legislative Law.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       Secretary will read the last section.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 16.

         8       This act shall take effect January 1st, 1999.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the

        12       roll.)

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        14       the negatives.  Announce the results.  The

        15       Secretary will announce the results.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        17       in the negative on Calendar Number 1677 are

        18       Senators Alesi, Breslin, Bruno, DeFrancisco,

        19       Dollinger, Gentile, Hoffmann, Kuhl, Larkin,

        20       Leibell, Libous, Maziarz, Meier, Nanula,

        21       Nozzolio, Oppenheimer, Saland, Santiago,

        22       Seward, Stachowski, Stafford, Volker and

        23       Wright.  Also Senator Farley, also Senator

        24       Rath, also Senator Holland.  Ayes 33, nays

        25       26.







                                                          6558

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Mr. President,

         4       excuse me.  How was Senator Onorato recorded?

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         6       Onorato was recorded in the affirmative.

         7                      SENATOR CONNOR:  I think he was

         8       a negative, Mr. President.  Is that right?

         9                      SENATOR ONORATO:  Yes.

        10                      SENATOR CONNOR:  Thank you.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        12       Onorato, did you wish to be recorded in the

        13       negative?

        14                      (Senator Onorato nods head.)

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        16       objection, Senator Onorato will be recorded in

        17       the negative on Calendar Number 1677.

        18                      Announce the final results.

        19                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 32, nays

        20       27.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                      Senator Bruno.

        24                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Announce the

        25       results, Mr. President.  Have we announced the







                                                          6559

         1       results, Mr. President?

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  We

         3       have, Senator Bruno.

         4                      The bill is passed.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Would you call

         8       up Calendar Number 1679, Mr. President.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        10       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1679,

        11       Senate Print 7873.

        12                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        13       1679, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        14       7873, an act to amend the Legislative Law, in

        15       relation to allowances payable to certain

        16       Senate officers.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will read the last section.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        20       message at the desk?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        22       is.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move to accept

        24       the message.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                          6560

         1       motion is to accept the message of necessity

         2       on Calendar 1679.  All those in favor signify

         3       by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (Response of "Nay".)

         7                      The message is accepted.

         8                      The bill is before the house.

         9                      The Secretary will read the

        10       last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        12       This act shall take effect on the same date as

        13       a chapter of the Laws of 1998.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the

        17       roll.)

        18                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Party vote

        19       in the negative.

        20                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in

        21       the affirmative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       Secretary will call the party line vote.

        24       Announce the results.

        25                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34, nays







                                                          6561

         1       25; party vote.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      Senator Bruno.

         5                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         6       would you call up Calendar 1680.

         7                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         8       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1680,

         9       Senate Print 7874.

        10                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        11       1680, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        12       7874, an act to repeal Section 2 of a chapter

        13       of the Laws of 1998.

        14                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        15       message at the desk?

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        17       is.

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move to accept

        19       the message.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       motion is to accept the message of necessity

        22       on Calendar Number 1680.  All those in favor

        23       signify by saying aye.

        24                      (Response of "Aye".)

        25                      Opposed, nay.







                                                          6562

         1                      (Response of "Nay".)

         2                      The message is accepted.

         3                      The bill is before the house.

         4                      The Secretary will read the

         5       last section.

         6                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

         7       This act shall take effect on the same date as

         8       a chapter of the Laws of 1998.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        10       the roll.

        11                      (The Secretary called the

        12       roll.)

        13                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Party vote

        14       in the negative.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in

        16       the affirmative.

        17                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        18       Secretary will record the party line vote.

        19       Announce the results.

        20                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35, nays

        21       24; party vote.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        23       bill is passed.

        24                      Senator Bruno.

        25                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,







                                                          6563

         1       would you call up Calendar Number 1681.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1681,

         4       Senate Print 7875.

         5                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         6       1681, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

         7       7875, an act to amend the Legislative Law.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

         9       Bruno.

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        11       message at the desk?

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        13       is.

        14                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move the

        15       message be accepted.

        16                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        17       motion is to accept the message of necessity

        18       on Calendar Number 1681.  All those in favor

        19       signify by saying aye.

        20                      (Response of "Aye".)

        21                      Opposed, nay.

        22                      (There was no response.)

        23                      The message is accepted.

        24                      The bill is before the house.

        25                      The Secretary will read the







                                                          6564

         1       last section.

         2                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

         3       This act shall take effect on the same date as

         4       a chapter of the Laws of 1998.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

         6       the roll.

         7                      (The Secretary called the

         8       roll.)

         9                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Party vote

        10       in the negative.

        11                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in

        12       the affirmative.

        13                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        14       Secretary will record the party line vote.

        15       Announce the results.

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 35, nays

        17       24.  Party vote.

        18                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                      Senator Paterson, why do you

        21       rise?

        22                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Mr.

        23       President, what was the tabulation on this

        24       last vote again?

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                          6565

         1       Secretary informs me that the vote is 34 votes

         2       cast in the affirmative, 25 in the negative.

         3                      SENATOR PATERSON:  I'm sorry,

         4       Mr. President.  I thought I heard 35/24.

         5                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  It's

         6       because of old age, Senator Paterson, and you

         7       did.  You're correct.  They were announced

         8       incorrectly.

         9                      Senator Bruno.

        10                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Can we call up

        11       Calendar Number 1682, Mr. President.

        12                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        13       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1682,

        14       Senate Print 7876.

        15                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

        16       1682, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print

        17       7876, an act to amend the Executive Law and a

        18       chapter of the Laws of 1998.

        19                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there a

        20       message at the desk?

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        22       is.

        23                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Move the

        24       message be accepted.

        25                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The







                                                          6566

         1       motion is to accept the message of necessity

         2       on Calendar Number 1682.  All those in favor

         3       signify by saying aye.

         4                      (Response of "Aye".)

         5                      Opposed, nay.

         6                      (Response of "Nay".)

         7                      The message is accepted.

         8                      The bill is before the house.

         9                      The Secretary will read the

        10       last section.

        11                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 3.

        12       This act shall take effect on the same date as

        13       a chapter of the Laws of 1998.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        15       the roll.

        16                      (The Secretary called the

        17       roll.)

        18                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Party vote in

        19       the affirmative.

        20                      SENATOR PATERSON:  Party vote

        21       in the negative.

        22                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        23       the party line vote.

        24                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        25       Announce the results.







                                                          6567

         1                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 34, nays

         2       25; party vote.

         3                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                      Senator Leichter, why do you

         6       rise?

         7                      SENATOR LEICHTER:  Exception on

         8       the party vote.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Senator

        10       Paterson, do you wish to have a party line

        11       vote recorded with exceptions?

        12                      SENATOR PATERSON:  With

        13       exceptions, please, Mr. President.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  All

        15       right.  The Secretary will note the exceptions

        16       to the party line vote in the negative.  Would

        17       the exceptions please raise your hands and

        18       keep them raised until the vote is announced.

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        20       Secretary will announce the results with

        21       exceptions.

        22                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 41, nays

        23       18; party vote with exceptions.  The

        24       exceptions:  Senators Abate, Hoffmann,

        25       Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez and







                                                          6568

         1       Montgomery.

         2                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                      Senator Breslin, why do you

         5       rise?

         6                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  Mr.

         7       President, I request to be recorded in the

         8       negative with unanimous consent on Calendar

         9       Number 1678.

        10                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Without

        11       objection, hearing no objection, Senator

        12       Breslin will be recorded in the affirmative or

        13       in the negative?

        14                      SENATOR BRESLIN:  Negative.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

        16       Negative on Calendar Number 1678.

        17                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        18       can we at this time call up Calendar Number

        19       1685.

        20                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        21       Secretary will read Calendar Number 1685,

        22       Assembly 9867-A.

        23                      The Secretary will read.

        24                      THE SECRETARY:  In relation to

        25       Calendar Number 1685, Senator Bruno moves to







                                                          6569

         1       discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly

         2       Print 9867-A and substitute it for the

         3       identical Senate Bill 6436-A.

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       substitution is ordered.

         6                      The Secretary will read.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  Calendar Number

         8       1685, by member of the Assembly Crowley,

         9       Assembly Print 9867-A, an act to amend the

        10       Civil Service Law.

        11                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        12       Secretary will read the last section.

        13                      THE SECRETARY:  Section 2.

        14       This act shall take effect immediately.

        15                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Call

        16       the roll.

        17                      (The Secretary called the

        18       roll.)

        19                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Record

        20       the negatives.  Announce the results.

        21                      THE SECRETARY:  Ayes 58, nays

        22       1, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative.

        23                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                      (Pause)







                                                          6570

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         2       Senate will come to order.  Ask the members to

         3       take their chairs, the staff to find their

         4       places.  A little order in the chamber.

         5                      The Chair recognizes Senator

         6       Bruno.

         7                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

         8       can we return to motions and resolutions.

         9                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Can we

        10       have a little order in the house.  We'll

        11       return to the order of motions and

        12       resolutions.

        13                      The Chair recognizes Senator

        14       Bruno.

        15                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Mr. President,

        16       I believe you have a privileged resolution at

        17       the desk that was sponsored by the Rules

        18       Committee.  I would be honored and pleased if

        19       you would read it and move for its immediate

        20       adoption.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There

        22       is a resolution at the desk.

        23                      The Secretary will read the

        24       title.

        25                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Why don't you







                                                          6571

         1       read it.

         2                      SENATOR DOLLINGER:  Can we see

         3       it?

         4                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         5       Secretary will read the resolution in its

         6       entirety.

         7                      THE SECRETARY:  By the Senate

         8       Committee on Rules, Concurrent Resolution

         9       Number 4306, Concurrent Resolution of the

        10       Senate and Assembly fixing the salaries of the

        11       offices of Governor and Lieutenant Governor

        12       pursuant to Article IV, Sections 3 and 6 of

        13       the Constitution of the state of New York;

        14                      WHEREAS, the salaries of the

        15       offices of Governor and Lieutenant Governor

        16       were last increased to take effect in 1987;

        17       and

        18                      WHEREAS, the salaries of other

        19       state officials and employees have been fixed

        20       at levels which exceed or closely approach the

        21       salaries of the Governor and Lieutenant

        22       Governor; now, therefore, be it

        23                      RESOLVED, if the Assembly

        24       concur, that effective January 1st, 1999, the

        25       salary of the office of Governor shall be







                                                          6572

         1       fixed at $179,000 per annum and the salary of

         2       the office of Lieutenant Governor shall be

         3       fixed at $151,000, provided, however, that

         4       this resolution shall have no force and effect

         5       in the event that effective January 1st, 1999

         6       the salaries of the Comptroller and Attorney

         7       General are less than $151,500 per year.

         8                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

         9       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        10       favor signify by saying aye.

        11                      (Response of "Aye".)

        12                      The Secretary will call the

        13       roll.

        14                      (The Secretary called the

        15       roll.)

        16                      THE SECRETARY:  Those recorded

        17       in the negative on Concurrent Resolution

        18       Number 4306 are Senators Breslin, Dollinger,

        19       Gentile, Nanula and Stachowski.  Ayes 54, nays

        20       5.

        21                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        22       resolution is adopted.

        23                      Senator Bruno.

        24                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Is there any

        25       housekeeping at the desk, Mr. President?







                                                          6573

         1                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  There's

         2       nothing at the desk, Senator.

         3                      SENATOR BRUNO:  Well, then, Mr.

         4       President, my colleagues, in memory of the

         5       late Senator Jess Present, there being no

         6       further business to come before the Senate, I

         7       would move that we stand adjourned subject to

         8       the call of the Majority Leader, and I would

         9       like to take this opportunity to wish you all

        10       a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.  Thank

        11       you, Mr. President.  Intervening days to be

        12       legislative days.

        13                      Thank you.

        14                      ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  The

        15       Senate stands adjourned in memory of the late

        16       Senator Jess Present, all intervening days to

        17       be legislative days.

        18                      (Whereupon, at 8:15 p.m., the

        19       Senate adjourned.)

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25