Regular Session - March 3, 1999
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NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
March 3, 1999
11:00 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
come to order.
I ask that everyone present please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: The invocation
today will be given by Rabbi Lance Sussman
from Temple Concord in Binghamton, New York.
RABBI SUSSMAN: Our God, God of
your ancestors and all people, we ask for Your
blessings on the State of New York and the
United States of America, cause us to prosper
in all our ways, help us to live up to the
high ideals of our founding fathers and
mothers, teach us to live together in harmony
and to cherish the rich diversity of our many
cultural and religious traditions.
Lord, strengthen our resolve to
serve You by serving our fellow citizens and
grant us peace, prosperity and well-being all
the days of our lives. Amen.
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
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Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Tuesday, March 2nd. The Senate met pursuant
to adjournment. The Journal of Monday, March
1st, was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle,
from the Committee on Higher Education,
reports:
Senate Print 3021, by Senator
Saland, an act to amend the Education Law and
the Executive Law.
And Senator Farley, from the
Committee on Banks, reports the following
bills:
Senate Print 1918, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the Banking Law; and
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Senate Print 2925, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the Banking Law.
All bills ordered direct for third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, all bills directly to third
reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
State officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
at this time, could we please take up the
non-controversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the non-controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
121, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 1524, an
act to amend the Public Health Law, in
relation to reimbursement of city or county
medical expenses.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
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SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
125, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1578 -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
129, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 547,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to the maximum speed limit for
certain portions of highway located in
Onondaga County.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
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131, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 1084, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to the maximum speed limit on a
certain portion of the Catskill section.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. Nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
171, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1094,
an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
allowing an 11-year-old person to take a
hunting safety course.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
181, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 1588, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
relation to requiring certain persons to be
committed to the custody of the sheriff.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
186, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1746, an
act to authorize payment of transportation aid
to the Miller Place Union Free School
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District.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
192, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2426 an
act to amend the Public Service Law, the
Public Officers law and the General
Construction Law, in relation to video
conferencing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
193, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2427, an
act to amend the Economic Development Law, the
Public Officers Law and the General
Construction Law, in relation to video
conferences.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
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bill aside.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the non-controversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
could we take up the controversial calendar,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
121, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 1524, an
act to amend the Public Health Law, in
relation to reimbursement.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
Senator Hannon, an explanation has
been requested of Calendar 121.
SENATOR HANNON: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill would permit any city or
county to seek reimbursement from a
third-party insurance carrier in the event a
prisoner, who's in their facility, has
incurred medical expenses. This would mean
that the municipality would be able to access
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the benefits that do exist for the individual.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. I would ask if the sponsor would
yield to some questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon, do you yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
much.
Under this legislation, since a
prisoner's going to be using their insurance
premiums, does that mean that they will get a
choice of which doctor they can see?
SENATOR HANNON: This plan, this
proposal envisions that whoever is their
current insurance carrier would be paying
premiums. It would, therefore, mean that
there would be an existing insurance contract
and, therefore, whatever rights, privileges,
obligations of the existing insurance contract
are there would be applicable.
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SENATOR DUANE: So that would
mean that the incarcerated person could see
whatever specialist that's in the network of
their insurance plan?
SENATOR HANNON: Whatever might
be appropriate.
SENATOR DUANE: So that would be
appropriate, that they could see -
SENATOR HANNON: Whatever would
be appropriate in the circumstances pursuant
to the legally existing contract of insurance
then existing.
SENATOR DUANE: So if -- through
you, Mr. President. If -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: He
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: So if an
incarcerated person had needed to go to the
Mayo Clinic or Sloan Kettering for treatment,
and that was covered under their insurance
plan, then they would be permitted to go to
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that facility to get their treatment, if it
was so covered by their network?
SENATOR HANNON: It has nothing
to do with that and, frankly, nothing in the
portion of the bill relates to that.
SENATOR DUANE: Well, the -
SENATOR HANNON: You want to
yield again?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, please.
SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: But it does mean,
in fact, then that an incarcerated person, if
their insurance is entitling them to that,
that they then should be able to use the
healthcare professional of their choice or the
specialist of their choice. And I'm -- of
course, I would be -
SENATOR HANNON: Senator, I
submit to you -
SENATOR DUANE: -- I would be for
that.
SENATOR HANNON: Senator, I
submit to you that the plain language of the
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bill simply speaks about reimbursement to the
county or city so that -- and it has happened
in the past -- people of good means, are
incarcerated, have accessed a high amount of
medical care and this allows the municipality
to get payment that they've had to lay out and
it reduces the cost. But it has nothing to
do, and you read by -- the bill is only about
13 lines long. It doesn't say anything about
changing access provisions. Those would
remain as they are in current status.
SENATOR DUANE: I would
respectfully hold, though, that, in fact, if
private insurance is being used by an
incarcerated person, then on the other end,
they should be entitled to use the private
healthcare provider of their choice.
I'm also concerned -- if I may
continue, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Are you
on the bill now, Senator?
SENATOR DUANE: No, I'm
continuing, if I may, I have a couple of other
questions, if I may.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
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Hannon, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Oh, I didn't
realize. I thought he finished questions.
Am I being asked to yield?
SENATOR DUANE: I have other
questions, because I think this particular
piece of legislation raises a lot of
intriguing questions and I'd like to ask
another one, if I may.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR HANNON: I'll yield for
another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
yields.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Many HMOs require
that after an emergency room visit that the
patient needs to call the provider within 24
hours. I'm wondering if, again, the New York
State's correctional system could take into
account the need of the incarcerated person to
make that call so that they don't lose their
reimbursement.
SENATOR HANNON: According to the
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terms of the bill, Senator, we're only dealing
with municipalities or cities. We're dealing
with the local correctional facility. It has
nothing to do with the New York State
correctional facilities. And this is for
those people who have been incarcerated for a
year or less.
SENATOR DUANE: Still then,
provision would need to be made that either
the incarcerated person or someone from the
facility, the local facility, would need to
call the HMO within 24 hours, which is what
the policy is of most of the HMOs.
SENATOR HANNON: If that's a
question, I think I've answered it before,
Senator.
SENATOR DUANE: Um, also -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
work with me. Do you want the sponsor to
continue to yield?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay.
Senator Hannon, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
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yields.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: In a case where
an incarcerated person is stabbed or injured
through no fault of their own, perhaps by
another incarcerated person, isn't the state,
therefore, liable in a case like that? Or the
municipality?
SENATOR HANNON: I'm sorry. I
did not, I simply didn't hear the last part of
the question. Is it the?
SENATOR DUANE: Is it not the
local authority, the city or town or county,
liable for treatment of the incarcerated
person in a case like that?
SENATOR HANNON: Liable in the
sense of liable for the medical treatment?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes.
SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
SENATOR DUANE: And what,
therefore -- through you, Mr. President, is
the impact of this legislation -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Do you
continue to yield, Senator Hannon?
SENATOR HANNON: The impact?
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If they have medical insurance and
you can access that, you would be able to
recover a part or all of that medical
treatment from the insurance carrier, the same
way as if that person was hurt on the outside
and would get payment for their medical
treatment from their insurance carrier.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
I am concerned -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I am concerned
then that this removes some of the liability
from the local correctional institution and
the local governing body in a case like this.
SENATOR HANNON: Is that a
question?
SENATOR DUANE: Does it -
SENATOR HANNON: Does it? No.
SENATOR DUANE: It does not?
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SENATOR HANNON: Not that I can
see.
SENATOR DUANE: I have a couple
more questions, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator.
Hannon, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Will incarcerated
persons be allowed to carry their insurance
cards with them at all times so that we would
all -- they would have access to their numbers
to call to access their, their network of
physicians?
SENATOR HANNON: Nothing in the
bill speaks to anything about that.
SENATOR DUANE: Well, I am
concerned about that, Mr. President.
And, now, I think maybe I'll just
speak now on the bill, if I may, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
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SENATOR DUANE: I'm taken aback
at how powerful it is that the Senate seems to
think that incarcerated people are, that they
all have or that many of them have private
insurance. I don't think that that is the
case. There may be a few, but I don't think
it's a vast number of people that carry their
private insurance. We also seem to think that
incarcerated people, when they're brought into
court, oftentimes shackled or at least
handcuffed, that somehow they're able to carry
bags of feces and urine that they can throw
around in a court room. I don't see that they
are that clever that they can do that sort of
thing. That they don't need legal help
because they're so smart, they can write their
own legal briefs all the time, and that they
are so smart on legal issues that they'll be
able tie our court system up.
I, while I have a healthy respect
for people who are incarcerated, I just don't
really give them this kind of superhuman
credit. I don't understand why it is that we
continue to pile on in terms of how it is that
incarcerated people are being treated in our
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facilities. I absolutely believe that there
is a price to be paid for criminal behavior,
but I do think there comes a point when other
issues besides punishment, including
rehabilitation, need to be looked at as well.
And I plan on voting no on this
bill because I think it's unnecessary and I
also think it's mean spirited.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon.
SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President,
to conclude, just so people are clear as to
what the bill exactly says, doesn't impose any
new obligations, doesn't propose any new
burdens. It simply says that, if an
individual has existing health insurance, then
the city or municipality may act and apply for
a reimbursement for services it has laid out.
It's frankly a very simple
proposition and I think one that makes a lot
of logic. So I would urge its adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
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act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. Nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
125, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1578, an
act to amend the Education Law in relation to
fostering compliance.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Larkin, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar Number 125 by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR LARKIN: Senator
Paterson, this is a bill that we had last
year. Basically, what this bill does, it
would require the registration to the
Selective Service System as a pre-condition
for receipt of New York State aid for higher
education.
The federal government, since 1982,
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has withheld PELL grants for higher education
from the federal level. And, basically, there
are 25 other states who have already signed
onto this. New York would be the 26th. And
what we're saying is a very simple -- and I
think for my colleagues on the other side of
the aisle, I think a very important statement
was made by the Democratic governor of the
State of New Hampshire, when she said that
"this is a positive step in the realization of
young adults of their responsibility. Men who
register not only help America but help
themselves. This is the proper thing to do.
Young men who are required to register but do
not do so will be denied admission and
financial aid to the universities and colleges
in the State of New Hampshire."
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
President.
There is nothing about the spirit
of this legislation with which we disagree.
We just disagree with the nature of the
legislation, being that it is the law right
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now that an individual of seasonable age must
register with Selective Service. That's the
law. If the law is not followed, our federal
government has the resources and also has the
regulations that it follows to enforce the
law. And, really, as a preemptive measure,
this is something that is already discharged
by the federal government.
The issue of the TAP grants or
anything that emanates from the state, is
really one that conflicts to some degree with
what -- with the carrying out of the federal
law.
Now, what's interesting is that
there are people who apply for small business
loans in this state, they apply for job
development association type loans. There are
all kinds of loans that we could create this
kind of standard, where they must have
selected with -- they must have registered
with Selective Service. And many of those
individuals are far older than the younger
people who we are addressing this legislation
to, specifically.
So, if we were going to pass this
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legislation, and I kind of hope that we don't,
I would think that we would want to create a
standard that would apply to everyone who is
put in that situation where they need state
aid.
The specificity of aiming this at
college students, many of whom do receive TAP,
we have cut higher education by $114 million
this year. Those who are in TAP have had the
amount of their tuition reduced from 90
percent to 75 percent. This amount must be
made up by, by themselves. We are not, as a
sovereignty, in economic need right now, but,
nonetheless, we've made these cuts. It really
sends an additional message now to let them
know that they must be registered with
Selective Service even though the federal law
says they must have been registered with
Selective Service anyway.
So what I think I'm saying is that
this proposal should, in effect, be void for
vagueness because it really does not address
anything that is not already covered in the
law. This is a point that was raised last
year by Senator Leichter, and this is one that
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I think remains relevant in terms of passing
the legislation.
On the issue of whether or not
someone should register with Selective
Service, they absolutely should. And if they
do not, then they should, should accrue the
full punishment or whatever the federal
government exacts on those who don't follow
the law and cooperate with the Service. But
as far as carrying out the duties in state
government, we could attach to this
legislation the same kind of standard for not
paying one's income tax. I don't see why a
person who doesn't file their income tax
should be collecting TAP when they owe the
government money that they should have paid.
So what I think I'm just saying is
that I think we're, in a sense, piling on to
those issues that have already been resolved
in our federal system.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 1st day of July.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
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roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 125 are
Senators Duane, Mendez, Montgomery, Paterson,
Sampson, Seabrook and Smith.
Ayes 46. Nays 7.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
186, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1746, an
act to authorize payment of transportation aid
to the Miller Place Union Free School
District.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi to explain his vote.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President, I
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rise to explain my vote on this piece of
legislation.
This bill recognizes that there may
be situations and circumstances by which a
school district, for whatever reason, has not
submitted claims and is entitled to that money
irrespective of those circumstances. And this
bill, essentially, would provide that monies
back to that school district, and it is as a
result of that circumstance and situation
right on the money. And I commend Senator
LaValle for introducing it.
What it does, however, is highlight
a greater problem and gives me hope that this
institution will recognize and remedy the
larger problem, which is, the fact that
currently there are school districts
throughout the State of New York that are owed
in the aggregate in excess of $820 million in
prior year school claims, including $725
million of which comes from the City of New
York. $95.3 million comes from school
districts throughout the remainder of the
state. And under the current system of
repayment and an inadequate section of the
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State Education Law which caps at 40 percent
the amount any one school district can receive
of the total amount allocated to repay these
prior year claims in any one year, the current
payment schedule for the City of New York
means that we will not receive payment, full
payment on these claims until the year 2051.
And despite the fact that the City will not
receive that money to which it's entitled
until that time, the other school districts
throughout the state will receive their entire
payments over the next three years.
This situation has progressed to
the point where we are in crisis mode. Not
only is it jeopardizing and compromising the
fiscal integrity of the City and the state, as
viewed through the perspective of the credit
rating agencies, what is happening is the City
now has not submitted an additional $428
million in claims because we have not received
sufficient payment on those claims. And in
addition, since, to conform with GAP
accounting procedures, we must right off
claims that are in excess of 10 years.
Currently, if we do not receive in the City of
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New York $39 million by June 1st of this year,
the City will forfeit those funds blowing a
hole in the New York City Board of Education
budget of $39 million. Next year that's $33
million, then it drops down to 10 and then it
kicks up into the hundreds of millions of
dollars.
So I support Senator LaValle's bill
and I hope that this means that this
institution, the Assembly and the Governor all
recognize that it's time to address this
problem of prior year school claims. The
taxpayers of the State of New York and the
school children of the State of New York are
entitled to these funds. It's time we
recognized the problem.
Mr. President, I vote in the
affirmative on this legislation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi will be recorded in the affirmative.
The clerk will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
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THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
192, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2426, an
act to amend the Public Service Law, the
Public Officers Law and the General
Construction Law, in relation to video
conferencing.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar Number 192 by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
President.
The bill amends the law to allow
for meetings of the Public Service Commission
to be held by video conferencing and further
amends the Open Meetings Law as to reflect
that these are public meetings and subject to
public attendance in all of the open meetings
provisions. It's the same legislation that
was passed unanimously by this house last
year.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
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-- Mr. President.
Would the sponsor -
Habit.
Would the sponsor yield to a few
questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you yield to a question from
Senator Duane?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
much.
Now, I understand that the PSC
wants this legislation because they're
concerned that without it, if they do do video
conferencing, that they would be breaking the
Open Meetings Law?
Or maybe you could be more specific
about why the PSC has requested this.
SENATOR WRIGHT: The intent of
the bill is to utilize the new technology
that's available through video conferencing.
As you may be aware, the Public
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Service Commission has a large number of staff
both in the Capital as well as in their New
York City offices.
Frequently, if we can
telecommunicate between those two, and video
conference between those two offices, it would
save New York State money and make for a more
efficient operation in terms of conducting the
meeting without convening everyone in one
place. The same is true of utilities that are
located throughout the state.
So it's simply a recognition as we
move into the new millennium that there are
new technologies and government should
accommodate utilization of those new
technologies and amend its laws accordingly.
SENATOR DUANE: To continue
through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I was under the
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impression, by the way that the legislation
reads, that this is only to be used for the
commissioners. Is that correct or is this
supposed to be used agency-wide?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, it would
be used in terms of the formal Commission
meetings themselves, and we specifically amend
the Public Service Law to provide for it and
to address the determinations in terms of
voting.
We further amend it in the Open
Meetings Law in terms of meeting the
requirements of that statute in assuring that
there is public awareness of the meetings,
public awareness of the utilization of video
conferencing and public access to those
members utilizing video conferencing.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I continue to
yield, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: He
yields.
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Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Does that mean
that the video equipment will be in large
auditoriums or big conference rooms so that
the public can participate any time that
equipment is being used?
Or maybe not participate, but at
least follow the proceedings.
SENATOR WRIGHT: We do not define
the size or the specifications of the meeting
rooms or the facilities, but the Open Meetings
Law and the Public Service Law requires that
there be public access to those, those
proceedings. They are generally determined
based on the nature of the proceedings as to
the size of the facility that is warranted.
If it is a highly controversial meeting with a
large number of multiple intervenors and
participants, they select a location
accordingly.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Continue to
766
yield, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: The sponsor's
indicated that the equipment's only going to
be for the New York and Albany offices?
Is that correct?
And if that is correct, then I
don't understand how that is particularly
helpful in terms of commissioners from other
parts of the state being able to use this, or,
for that matter, then the public from other
parts of the state getting more access to what
happens during the meetings.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
in my response, I did not indicate that it was
limited to Albany and New York. I simply
cited the location of Public Service
Commission offices at those two locations and
that they would readily be conducive to
utilizing video conferencing from those two
areas. However, I further cited utilities
that are located at various locations
geographically across the state that,
certainly, could make the investment, could be
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in a position to participate in video
conferencing.
The very concept of video
conferencing, in fact, expands the horizons
rather than constricting horizons, as we
currently have.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
yields.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Then I'm
confused. I didn't understand that this means
that the public -- that utilities would now be
able to hook into the PSC and be able to have
video conferencing in addition to video
conferencing among the members of the
Commission with the public part of that as
well.
I'd like a clarification as to
whether or not this is also being done in an
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effort to help hook in utilities with the PSC
through video conferencing.
SENATOR WRIGHT: This bill is
being done to facilitate the meeting of the
Public Service Commission. That is the intent
of the bill. That's what the statute provides
for. It certainly does not exclude the
participation of others through video
conferencing since these are open, public
meetings, which utilities would be available
to participate in, as would any other members
of the public, because it would be defined as
a public meeting.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sponsor
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Well, the third
part of the triangle, the utilities, the
Commission, the public, the public, actually,
then, it seems to me, would be at a
769
disadvantage. Most citizens don't have
telecommunications capability in their homes
or their place of work. And it seems to me
that this then gives an advantage, an unfair
advantage to public utilities who, most
likely, would have more of the financial
wherewithal to have video conferencing.
SENATOR WRIGHT: I disagree with
that assumption. It's not inconsistent with
the current arrangement, whereby meetings are
convened in either Albany or New York.
I can assure you that for a
consumer from Watertown to travel to either of
those areas is a long distance. They do not
have the financial wherewithal to do that, but
utilities may well have that financial
wherewithal to send their counsel or their
representative. So video conferencing can, in
fact, open those horizons, facilitate greater
public participation, and that is our
objective.
SENATOR DUANE: Well, through
you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
770
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: The other element
of this, though, is that, while we don't see
it in this legislation, there is a public, a
potential public commitment of funds to create
this telecommunications system. We don't know
how much money it is.
Why is it that the actual dollar
amount of what this video conferencing system
would cost in the legislation and why is it
not being done as part of a budget bill as
opposed to strictly legislation, not taking
into account the amount of money that such
video conferencing system would cost the
citizens of our state?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, first have
all, the bill itself amends two specific
provisions of law and does not reflect
appropriations. That's normally handled
through a budget, which is currently being
debated.
Secondly, if you're familiar with
771
the operation of the Public Service
Commission, you know that that is -- the
revenues for support of the Public Service
Commission are provided through the utilities.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
yields.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Mister -- the
sponsor of the legislation acknowledges in his
Memo of Support, though, that there will be a
financial commitment that will need to be made
at some point. Although the exact dollar
amount is not set out, it's envisioned, I
believe, somewhere in the range of 200 to
$300,000, which is public funding, again,
which would be used from the outset, more
specifically, yes, maybe for the PSC, but also
to utility companies. But I believe, without
taking into account how that will impact on
772
the ability of an average citizen who doesn't
have teleconferencing capability to
participate in this, what we all acknowledge
will be, state funded teleconferencing system.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
interpreted that to be a statement as opposed
to a question.
If there's a question, would the
Senator please rephrase it?
SENATOR DUANE: Um, well, I might
just, Mr. President, leave that statement
hanging there for the moment and go on to say
that -- -- .
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: You're
on the bill now or do you have a -
SENATOR DUANE: Well, I'd like to
leave open, Mr. President, the possibility
that the sponsor could respond, if he so
desires.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Are you
asking the sponsor to yield for a question,
Senator Duane?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, I will ask
the sponsor to yield to a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
773
Wright, do you yield to a question?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do. And I
would prefer a question as opposed to
statement, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Noted.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: As it is now,
when, outside of the public meeting, when a
private citizen or a public utility needs to
get information from the PSC, is it not just
as effective and feasible to do that in a
regular telephone call?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I simply have no
answer. In terms of whether a telephone is
more efficient than some other method of
securing information, that's up to the
individual who's attempting to secure the
information. I don't see where that has
relevance to video conferencing, where we're
talking about convening a public meeting,
amending the law for the purposes of
establishing a quorum and amending the Open
Meetings Law, to insure that those meetings,
while being video conferenced, are, in fact,
open and accessible to the public.
774
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
Then it seems to me -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Well,
for a question?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Then should we
not make sure then that an average citizen
will have as much access to this state funded
teleconferencing system as will a better
funded energy corporation?
SENATOR WRIGHT: The utilization
of video conferencing is to facilitate open
meetings at various locations. Those open
meetings, by their definition, are open to the
public. Therefore, it is accessible to the
public. Therefore, the money being utilized
makes public access more readily available
than currently is available by transporting
people to one location.
775
You may not be aware of it, but we
do not provide public dollars to transport
people to meetings of the Public Service
Commission. So, when we're putting in place a
system of video conferencing, which will more
effectively allow the Commission itself to
function and by doing that in multiple
locations, that means multiple locations then
are accessible to the public; thereby, making
it more accessible.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: If there are new
questions, yes, Mr. President.
SENATOR DUANE: I absolutely
acknowledge that this will be cheaper for the
energy companies to not have to send people to
the commission, but I don't see what -- how it
becomes cheaper then for the public to access
the Commission since they don't have access to
telecommunications equipment.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
Senator, you seem to be missing the point. If
776
I am a member of the Public Service Commission
in New York City video conferencing with the
balance of the Commission in Albany, you, as a
New York resident, can go to the location of
that video conference and you can observe the
entire proceeding in interactive video
conferencing; thereby, saving you the cost, if
you wish to participate in that Commission
meeting, of driving all the way to the
Capital, in Albany, and returning. Therefore,
just as a utility executive co-located with
you in New York City, they would avoid the
cost. The cost being the same to either
party, either party having equal access to
that Commission member; thereby, participating
in that video conference.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
President.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: For what
purpose? For a question?
SENATOR DUANE: For a final
question.
777
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright, Senator Duane is asking you to yield
for a final question.
SENATOR WRIGHT: For a final
question, Mr. President, I will be glad to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: I would like to
assure the sponsor that I do completely,
totally, and 100 percent do understand.
However, since there is, we all acknowledge,
going to be a public financial commitment to
this, I do believe that it is more favorable
to, and will not the sponsor understand what
I'm saying, that, in fact, it is immediately
advantageous, this new infrastructure, that
it's more advantageous to be in place and used
by an energy company than it is by an average
citizen from many, many parts of the state?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do not agree
with that assumption and I did not acknowledge
that assumption, and I look forward to
debating that assumption further when we take
up the budget.
778
SENATOR DUANE: And then on the
bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: This may or may
not be an appropriate use of money, 2 or
$300,000. And, in fact, we're about to do
another bill which is similar in intent. But
in a year, when we're fighting about how to
spend money on a whole range of issues and
making restorations to cuts, whether it's, for
instance, $500,000 to funding for housing for
people with AIDS or our struggle to put enough
money in the budget so that we can do, for
instance, senior nutritional programs, or, for
that matter, TAP funding, that we would vote
on this legislation which everybody
acknowledges will have a financial commitment.
Although I'm not convinced that it's an
equally advantageous financial commitment to
the public as it is to power companies, I
think that we should be looking at this
legislation and the financial commitment that
goes along with it in the context of the state
budget, in general, where there are many
779
competing interests, and it would be hard to
convince me that the money to spend on
teleconferencing for these two agencies is
more important than providing nutritional
assistance to older people.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. Nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
193, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2427, an
act to amend the Economic Development Law, the
Public Officers Law and the General
Construction Law, in relation to video
conferences.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
780
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Duane to
explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: I just wanted to
say that I'm voting no on this for the same
reasons that I debated on the piece of
legislation which we discussed.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the negative.
Announce the results.
Oh, I'm sorry. Senator Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: To explain my
vote, Mr. President. Just for the record, so
that we clarify, were these proposals to be
rejected, there would be no budget savings
available to transfer elsewhere in the budget
for other purposes, such as nutrition or other
worthy objectives, because these are sole
source revenues that are dedicated to these
781
respective agencies.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Wright will be recorded in the affirmative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. Nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, that concludes the reading of the
controversial calendar.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, is
there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No,
there is not.
Oh, wait a minute. I'm sorry.
Senator Montgomery asks to be
recognized.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I would like to unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
121.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 121.
782
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, the desk is clean. there's no
housekeeping.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President,
there being no further business, I move we
adjourn until Monday, March 8th, at 3 p.m.,
intervening days being legislative days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On
motion of the Acting Majority Leader Senator
McGee, the Senate stands adjourned until
Monday, March 8th, at 3 p.m. Intervening days
will be legislative days.
(Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., Senate
adjourned.)