Regular Session - March 22, 1999
1230
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE
STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
March 22, 1999
3:06 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
1231
P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
come to order. I ask everyone present to
please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of
silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate, Friday
March 19th, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Thursday,
March 18th, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
1232
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell,
from the Committee on Civil Service and
Pensions, reports:
Senate Prints 2292, by Senator
Leibell, an act to amend Chapter 695 of the
Laws of 1994;
3877, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.
Senator Seward, from the Committee
on Insurance, reports:
Senate Prints Number 36, by Senator
Velella, an act to amend the Insurance Law;
2542, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend the Insurance Law;
2879, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Insurance Law;
3516, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Insurance Law.
Senator Bonacic, from the Committee
on Housing, Construction and Community
Development, reports:
Senate Prints 3660, by Senator
Bonacic, an act to amend the Private Housing
1233
Finance Law;
3661, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Private Housing Finance Law;
3662, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Private Housing Finance Law;
3664, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Private Housing Finance Law;
3792, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend Chapter 514 of the laws of 1983;
3890, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Private Housing Finance Law;
3891, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Private Housing Finance Law;
3892, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Private Housing Finance Law.
Senator Hoffmann, from the
Committee on Agriculture, reports:
Senate Prints 1723, by Senator
Kuhl, an act to amend the Agricultural and
Markets Law;
3087, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Agricultural and Markets Law;
3187, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Agricultural and Markets Law;
And 3541, by Senator Hoffmann, an
1234
act to amend the Agricultural and Markets Law.
All bill directly for third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objections, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Meier.
SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
President.
Madam President, I wish to call up
Senator Wright's bill, Print Number 1232,
recalled from the Assembly, which is now at
the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Wright, Senate Print 1232, an act to amend the
Penal Law.
SENATOR MEIER: Madam President,
I now move to reconsider the vote by which
this bill was passed.
1235
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44.
SENATOR MEIER: I now offer the
following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator,
amendments are re -
SENATOR MEIER: Madam President,
on page 6 I offer the following amendments to
Senator Holland's bill, Calendar Number 93,
Print Number 1083, and ask that said bill
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and the bill will
retain its place on the third reading.
SENATOR MEIER: Madam President,
on page number 17 I offer the following
amendments to Senator Skelos's bill, Calendar
Number 286, Senate Print Number 2271, and ask
that said bill retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
1236
amendment is received and the bill will retain
its place on the third calendar.
SENATOR MEIER: Madam President,
on page number 18 I offer the following
amendments to Senator Kuhl's bill, Calendar
Number 299, Print Number 1724, and ask that
said bill retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendment has been received and the bill will
retain its place on the third calendar, third
reading.
SENATOR MEIER: Madam President,
on page number 20 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 318, Senator
Trunzo's bill, Print Number 2994, and ask that
said bill retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendment has been received and the bill will
retain its place on the third reading.
SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Meier.
1237
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
I believe there's a privilege resolution at
the desk by Senator DeFrancisco. May we
please have it read in its entirety and move
for its immediate adoption. And I believe
Senator DeFrancisco then wishes to be
recognized.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution Number
737, memorializing Governor George E. Pataki
to proclaim March 24th, 1999, as Breast Cancer
Income Tax Check-Off Day.
WHEREAS, New York State has and
will continue to be committed to win the
battle against breast cancer, this goal can
only be championed with widespread public
support for innovative scientific research and
education;
The Breast Cancer Research and
Education Fund was created in 1996. Since
1996, more than 144,000 New Yorkers have
contributed to the Breast Cancer Research and
1238
Education Fund on their New York State income
tax return form. For calendar years 1996 and
1997, New Yorkers contributed more than $1.2
million to the Breast Cancer Research and
Education Fund on their New York State income
tax return form;
These funds are supporting 28
groundbreaking research projects into the
cause, treatment, prevention, and cure of
breast cancer. The research is being
conducted at academic medical institutions and
by public, private and state organizations
throughout New York State, with projects
ranging from improved early detection
techniques to furthering the understanding of
how the immune system interacts with breast
tumor cells. This research is an example of
how New Yorkers are working together to put an
end to this dreaded disease. Now, therefore,
it be
RESOLVED, That this Legislative
Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize
Governor George E. Pataki to proclaim
March 24, 1999, as Breast Cancer Income Tax
Check-Off Day; and be it further
1239
RESOLVED, That a copy of this
Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to Governor George E. Pataki.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Chair recognizes Senator DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you.
I don't think anyone had any
conception of how much money could be raised
by this check-off when the bill went into
effect in 1996 authorizing people to check
off, voluntarily, contributions to go to this
breast cancer research fund.
In the last couple of years, it's
been $1.2 million, and nobody knows about it,
or very few people realize it out in the State
of New York.
The purpose of the resolution,
therefore, is to ask Governor Pataki to make
March 24, 1999, Breast Cancer Income Tax
Check-Off Day, in hopes that more people will
learn of this check-off and that fund will
grow for research in this dreaded disease.
And I open this resolution to all
members. And with the permission of the
Chair, we would -- I would request that all
1240
members become sponsors unless they indicate
otherwise.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
question is on the resolution.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: Non
controversial reading of the calendar, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
107, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 637, an
act to amend the Corrections Law and the
Public Health Law, in relation to testing
inmates.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam Chair -
1241
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, would we lay that aside at the
request of Senator Duane, please?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
will be laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
108, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 642, an
act to amend the Correction Law, in relation
to requiring inmates to make medical
copayments.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
206, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2937, an
act to amend the Public Health Law, in
relation to requiring health maintenance
organizations.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
1242
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
250, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1027, an
act in relation to the creation of fire
protection district number 3 in the town of
Ohio.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
The home rule message is at the
desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
252, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1856, an
1243
act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
exemptions.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
253, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1965, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to point systems.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
1244
is passed -
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
254, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1966, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to point systems.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
255, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1968, an
act to amend the Town Law, in relation to
expending from fire district revenues.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
1245
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
256, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2459, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to granting.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
258, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2680, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to training of volunteer
1246
firefighters.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
313, by Member of the Assembly DeStito,
Assembly Print 3052, an act to amend the
Education Law, in relation to absentee
ballots.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
1247
is passed.
Senator Velella, that -- or Senator
Skelos, that completes the non-controversial
reading of the calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could take up the controversial
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
107, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 637, an
act to amend the Correction Law and the Public
Health Law, in relation to testing inmates for
transmissible diseases.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Madam President,
on the bill, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On the
bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I believe very strongly that this
bill -- and I'm backed up by people who have
worked in the field of HIV and AIDS and in the
field of public health for a very long time -
1248
that this bill is completely and totally and
utterly unnecessary.
I think that before we go down the
slippery slope of testing other professions,
we should look very sharply at what it is
exactly that we are doing here.
Let me first describe, under the
Public Health Law, what it is that constitutes
significant risk for correctional officers.
And I'll read right from the Public Health
Statutes on this. "Circumstances which
constitute significant risk of transmitting or
contracting HIV infection are: Sexual
intercourse, vaginal or oral; sharing of
needles and other paraphernalia; gestation,
birthing or breast-feeding; transfusion or
transplantation of blood."
Now, none of these things are
things that a correctional officer should be
doing. And if they are doing any of these
things, then they should be fired.
Let me tell you what significant
risk does not include. Exposure to urine,
feces, sputum, nasal secretions, saliva,
sweat, tears, vomit, human bites where there's
1249
no direct blood or blood-mucus membrane
contact, exposure of intact skin to skin,
blood, et cetera. These things are not -- are
not -- significant risk.
That we are breaking with New York
regulations and public health knowledge about
how it is that HIV may be transmitted or where
there is significant risk, I think is wrong.
I think it's wrong for a legislative body to
be legislating on public health in this
manner.
Public health should be left to
people who are involved in public health.
Doctors, nurses, public health professionals
are people who need to make these kinds of
determinations. For us to insert ourselves is
bad public health, and it is just plain wrong.
Also, public health already allows
for those incredibly infrequent times when
testing would be called for. It can already
be done. Incidentally -- and I defy anyone in
the body to tell me anything different than
this, because it doesn't exist -- there has
never been a case of transmission from a
correctional officer to an incarcerated person
1250
or from a prisoner to a correctional officer.
So that we are doing this
legislation is not only bad public law, it's
absurd. I urge other colleagues to vote
against this mean-spirited and totally
unnecessary and bad public health bill.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
Madam President.
Madam President, as the sponsor of
this legislation, I wish to explain it and
speak on the measure.
The purpose of the bill before this
house is to ensure that those who are working
in our state correctional facilities have
access to the state-of-the-art health
facilities available to them once they have
some knowledge that they may have been in
contact with an individual in the facility who
has the HIV virus.
This bill conforms with legitimate
Health Advisory Council dictates regarding HIV
testing and notice of that testing.
1251
Senator Duane's vitriolic attempt
to characterize his opposition to this bill is
naive. It's naive to what goes on in those
correctional facilities across our state
today. That we have in New York, under the
best of circumstances, a very intense, a very
difficult time for our correction officers and
other correctional personnel.
Senator Duane mentions that there
are certain ways that one can contract HIV,
and I have no -- no quarrel with his
characterizations. What I do have a quarrel
with, though, is his attempt to characterize
what happens behind the walls in our
correctional facilities, which are extremely
intense situations.
There's no casual contact in our
correctional facilities. When an inmate, one
who is probably convicted of an extremely
violent crime, decides to become violent in
prison, it takes individuals to restrain that
violence, to channel it, and to protect.
Those correction officers called
upon at the first line of defense aren't
engaging in casual contact with HIV carriers,
1252
they're engaging in intense physical contact
with HIV carriers. They're not dancing,
they're trying to restrain.
Oftentimes in those activities
you're seeing blood, you're seeing violence
which begets blood. And all too often, even
though this house and the Governor have
supported and enacted legislation to prevent
inmates from using their bodily fluids as
weapons, all too often our correctional
personnel are faced with hand-to-hand,
blood-to-blood contact with inmates.
What this bill does is try to
alleviate the concerns of those who have
engaged in this type of -- of responsibility
on behalf of the taxpayers, and simply tells
those individuals that "We respect what you
are doing for us as taxpayers, we respect and
honor your efforts on our behalf at the front
line of the critical justice system in
restraining potentially, and often, very
violent inmates." We're saying to them, "We
respect you, and that as such, we will let you
know -- you have the right to know if the
individual you have restrained and come into
1253
contact with in an aggressive way is carrying
the HIV virus."
Let's take this out of the politic
and put it into the medical society frame of
reference. I quote from the American Medical
Association: "When a health care provider is
at risk for HIV infection because of the
occurrence of puncture injury or other contact
with potentially infected bodily fluids, it is
acceptable to test the patient for HIV
infection even if the patient refuses
consent."
That's from the American Medical
Association opinions on HIV. This same
standard provided to the health-care providers
should also be provided to our correctional
employees.
"Exceptions to confidentiality are
appropriate when necessary to protect the
public health or when necessary to protect
individuals who are endangered by persons
infected by HIV." That's from the -- also
from the American Medical Society -- American
Medical Association opinion on HIV virus.
And I think most importantly, to
1254
Senator Duane and to others, there -- medical
technology, medical advances are evolving each
day. And that when we're talking about this
type of occupational exposure, every medical
entity, from the AMA to the Center for Disease
Control, emphasize the importance of
determining the specific risk factors
associated with that occupational exposure,
and, most importantly, allowing that
individual who is exposed to be able to
receive immediate treatment for that exposure.
Occupational exposures should be
considered as urgent medical concerns. That's
from the Center for Disease Control. That's
not from -- from Senator Nozzolio or the
Senate Majority. It's from the Center for
Disease Control, who are saying that we need
to err on the side of safety, provide that
amount of -- of medical attention to those who
have been potentially exposed, and do it as
soon as possible so that that exposure can be
dealt with in a medical way.
Madam President, we owe the 28,000
men and women who work in our correctional
facilities across New York nothing less than
1255
this measure. We owe them the consideration.
When they are working for us, when they are
working for the citizens of the state and face
intense exposure from those who are carrying
the HIV virus, they need to know it, they need
to be treated for it. And this legislation is
designed to achieve that objective.
I urge its passage.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Smith.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Madam
President.
Would the sponsor yield for a
question?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy
to yield to Senator Smith.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator will yield.
SENATOR SMITH: Senator, is it
not true that the portion of the document that
you recited from the Center for Disease
Control is actually in reference to medical
personnel such as nurses and doctors who may
1256
be administering a needle which would cause a
puncture, rather than the casual contact that
you recited it in reference to?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, puncture wounds are certainly of
concern to those correctional officers who
face shivs, knives, metal, plexiglass,
puncture wounds each and every day in our
correctional facilities.
I think, Senator Smith, yes, the
Center for Disease Control was focusing on
those -- to answer your question directly -
those who are exposed medical individuals.
But puncture wounds are a way of life in our
correctional facilities today.
SENATOR SMITH: Would the sponsor
yield for one more question?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy
to yield to Senator Smith, Madam President.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you,
Senator Nozzolio.
Then don't you think that it's
inaccurate to quote something totally out of
1257
context?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam -
Madam -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: -- President,
I think it's -
SENATOR SMITH: And I'm not being
vitriolic.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I think it's
extremely appropriate to quote things that are
on point relative to this argument.
And that I would only hope that
Senator Smith and others would look at this
issue not from a naive perspective of looking
at it from outside the correctional facility.
But to tell me that the occupational exposure
of a correction officer is not as intense, I
say begs certainly a lack of knowledge of what
happens in our prisons today.
SENATOR SMITH: Madam
President -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Smith -
SENATOR SMITH: -- on the bill.
1258
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: -- on
the bill? On the bill.
SENATOR SMITH: As one who has in
the past supported this legislation, I will
today vote in opposition. Because I resent
misrepresentations. And I have been one who
has always supported Council 82 and have been
honored by them for doing so. And I believe
that our corrections officers do a fine job.
But I do believe that this is going
a little outside of what is necessary. There
are public health rules and laws in place that
will protect them in case of -- something
should happen. And I think that we need to
stop and stop being so mean-spirited and vote
on the side of the people that do count.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the 30th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane. To explain your vote?
1259
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, Madam
President.
I -- I share Senator's Smith's
view. I think it's an absolute outrage that
you distorted -- that the -- that the -
excuse me, that a distortion has been made of
what the American Medical Association's
position is.
Unless correctional officers are
going around puncturing incarcerated people,
which I don't think they're doing, then this
is a medically unnecessary piece of
legislation. And the American Medical
Association and the CDC never intended their
guidelines to be used in this way.
This is an outrageous piece of
legislation whose intent has been totally
distorted, and I vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you.
Senator Nozzolio, to explain his
vote.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, thank you.
I rise to explain my vote, to thank
1260
those correctional officials who have made
this issue the number one priority of Council
82 this year. That they understand very
clearly -- and I would hope that this body
would understand -- that they are, day in and
day out, faced with the most significant and
stressful circumstances.
That I'm very glad Senator Smith
and Senator Duane mention the issue of
puncture wounds. I cannot begin to tell you
how often those members of Council 82, those
correction officers in our facilities are
faced with knives. From all areas of -- of
the correctional system, inmates are totally
using creativity beyond belief to build a -- a
protection system of knives where puncture
wounds are becoming a way of life in our
facilities.
That this measure goes a small step
to protect those men and women who may be
exposed to the HIV virus and provide them with
immediate medical knowledge so that they can
begin treatment.
It's a measure that I'm proud to
support. Distortions are only a distortion of
1261
the realities presented today, are distortions
of the realities that exist in our prisons
today. It's up to us to eliminate those
distortions.
And I thank my colleagues for
supporting this measure.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio will be recorded in the affirmative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 107 are
Senators Duane, Montgomery, and Smith.
Ayes, 52. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
108, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 642, an
act to amend the Correction Law in relation to
requiring inmates to make medical copayments.
SENATOR WALDON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: By which
Senator, Madam President?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
1262
Waldon has asked for the explanation.
SENATOR WALDON: By his friend
from the southeast.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
Madam President. I'd be pleased to explain
this measure.
That this measure amends the
Correction Law and requires inmates who are
using medical facilities in this state to make
a copayment in the amount of $7 upon the
receipt of such medical treatment. That there
is a provision in this measure where, should
an inmate not have sufficient funds in their
prison accounts -- and each inmate in the
state does have a prison account -- that if
money is not in that account to cover the
charges, then his account shall be frozen
pending the receipt of such funds. In effect,
the state taxpayers will have a garnishment.
That an inmate, I clearly add,
shall not be refused treatment because of his
lack of ability to pay. That we want to
ensure that any inmate, particularly those
that need the treatment, receive that
treatment.
1263
But what we're saying is that an
inmate should not be using sick call, should
not be using the medical services of the
state, funded by the taxpayers of the state,
as a way to avoid other work responsibilities.
And that just as every citizen of
this state who is lucky to have health
insurance will have to provide a copayment,
we're saying that the inmates of the prison
system today should also be required to make a
copayment.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Waldon, why do you rise?
SENATOR WALDON: Madam President,
on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On the
bill.
SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very
much, Madam President, my colleagues.
Senator Nozzolio and I have debated
this bill ad nauseam in the past, and so I
won't do that today. But I would just like to
make a couple of comments.
One, those who are imprisoned as a
rule do not possess the wherewithal to really
1264
defray medical expenses.
But more importantly than the fact
that they cannot pay from the little bit of
money that they have without damaging
themselves financially -- and one might argue,
well, if they weren't in prison they wouldn't
be in that predicament. But they are, and the
state has a responsibility to incarcerate
them. But what I believe happens is people
become ill and then they will refuse to go to
medical treatment or look for medical
treatment because they have so little in terms
of being able to take care of their medical
expenses.
And when you are in a closed
environment, as a prison is, if someone truly
becomes ill with something which is
transmissible to others -- and I'm talking flu
and other kinds of illnesses -- it spreads
rapidly. And you can have an entire prison
under siege from a medical problem because of
this oppressive, repressive policy of
requiring that people pay this $7.
One of you here, my colleagues, may
say, well, Waldon, you know, $7 is so little,
1265
so slight an amount of money. But when you're
paid at the rate that prisoners who work are
paid, it is not such a slight amount of money.
And I think we're being penny-wise
and pound-foolish. Why should we risk an
entire prison, including the correction
officers, shutting down because of our
penurious approach to medical care?
If we're going to imprison them to
protect society, then we should protect the
society within the prison by making sure that
everyone has access to medical care, make sure
it is adequate medical care, and make sure
that those who are not affected and infected
initially do not become so because they could
not afford, meaning the prisoner could not
afford, adequate medical treatment.
I would encourage all of my
colleagues to vote no on this. It's not going
to go anywhere, it's not going to do anything.
But from a moral perspective, we should this
time stand up on the side of those who are in
prison.
Madam President, I thank you very
much for your indulgence, and my colleagues as
1266
well. I vote, on this issue, no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Waldon.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I believe
Senator Montgomery rose to be heard.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: I'm
sincerely sorry.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
President, I just had one question for the
sponsor, if he would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Will the
sponsor yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Nozzolio.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
1267
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
Senator Nozzolio, I was just trying
to figure out what percent of the cost of care
does the $7 cover. Do we have any estimate on
whether or not this is really, in fact,
helping to cover the cost, defray the cost?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, in response to Senator Montgomery's
question, currently New York spends
$121 million a year on prison health services,
which amounts to about $2,000 a year per
inmate. That the costs of providing medical
care obviously are far beyond the $7
copayment.
But we believe, that like states
next door to us -- Pennsylvania most notably,
which established this, there have been
reductions in the use of the medical services,
the sick call, by upwards of three-quarters,
which is 75 percent.
So certainly it's difficult to say
what a $7 -- depends on what the malady is -
what a $7 payment would -- would expect.
1268
But we're also saying that whatever
monies are saved with the copayment, that that
money be kept at the individual prison
facility and be used for other inmate
programs.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. Thank
you, Madam President. I just wanted to
clarify that this -- the $7 is not really to
defray the cost of the care, but rather as a
deterrent to inmates accessing health
services.
So that was what I wanted to find
out. Thank you very much.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Montgomery.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Results,
please.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 108 are
1269
Senators Duane, Marchi, Markowitz, Mendez,
Montgomery, Onorato, Sampson, Smith, and
Waldon. Ayes -- also, Senator Rosado.
Ayes, 45. Nays, 10.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes -
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: No,
there is none.
SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
recognize Senator Mendez?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Chair recognizes Senator Mendez.
SENATOR MENDEZ: Madam President,
there will be a Democratic conference, a
Minority conference, at Room 314.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There
will be a Minority conference -
SENATOR MENDEZ: Right after
session.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: -
immediately following session.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
1270
I believe we -- we have a couple of members
that still would like to be recognized to cast
their vote.
Senator Montgomery.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery? Senator Schneiderman?
SENATOR SKELOS: Does any other
member wish to be recognized to cast a vote?
Senator Schneiderman, do you -
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I
think I've been recognized.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman, on which bill do you wish to be
recognized?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Number
108. Recorded in the negative. No, I just
wish to be recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Recorded
in the negative, Senator Schneiderman.
Without objection.
Senator Paterson, Senator
Schneiderman -
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, with unanimous consent I'd like to
be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1271
108.
And there being no further -- no,
forget it. Let him do it.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, Senator Paterson is recorded in the
negative.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
further business, I move we adjourn until
Tuesday, March 23rd, at 3:00 p.m.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, March 23rd, at 3:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 3:46 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)