Regular Session - April 19, 1999
2104
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE
STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
April 19, 1999
3:05 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will come to order.
Please join me in reciting the
Pledge of Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
invocation will be given by the Reverend
Dr. Evelyn John, Pastor of the New Life Center
of Truth in Brooklyn.
REVEREND JOHN: I know that there
is only one presence and one power in the
midst of us, and that is the presence and
power of God. Almighty and ever-living God,
we come before Thy presence and Thy power this
day, praising and thanking You for all the
blessings we have received since last we met.
We acknowledge You as the head of
our lives and this Senate. We are grateful
for these elected members who have come
together to serve and build this nation.
Grant unto them Your divine wisdom,
intelligence and understanding, to bless, to
guide, to heal and to prosper this nation.
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Let love, peace, order, harmony and
cooperation be established here and now. Let
all their deliberations be done in a positive
and constructive way for the good of all.
Bless this Senate and all the
elected members here. Guide, guard, and
protect them from all dangers, seen and
unseen. Your continued blessings upon the
President, the Governor, the Speaker, and all
those who are in authority.
We ask all these blessings in the
name and through the power of Jesus Christ,
and we give thanks that You hear and answer
all our prayers. Let Your light so shine
before men that they may see Your good works
and glorify Your Father, which is in Heaven.
And together we say amen. Amen.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Friday, April 16, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Thursday,
April 15, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Hearing
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no objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Libous.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
have a number of amendments to be offered to
third reading on the following calendar bills.
And I'll read each of those to you.
The first one, on behalf of Senator
Marcellino, page 7, Calendar 130, Senate Print
Number 821A.
On behalf of Senator Bonacic, page
11, Calendar Number 261, Senate Print 2324A.
On behalf of Senator Kuhl, page 15,
Calendar Number 341, Senate Print Number 3187.
On behalf of Senator Lack, page 15,
Calendar Number 346, Senate Print Number 3393.
On behalf of Senator Wright, page
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18, Calendar Number 389, Senate Print Number
3612.
On behalf of Senator Padavan, page
27, Calendar Number 509, Senate Print 2440.
On behalf of Senator Bonacic, page
27, Calendar Number 512, Senate Print 3793.
And, Mr. President, the last one
will be on behalf of Senator Velella, page
number 29, Calendar Number 329, Senate Print
Number 2879.
And, Mr. President, I now move that
these bills retain their place on the order of
third reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and the bills will
retain their place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
believe there's a privilege resolution at the
desk by Senator McGee. May we please have the
title read and move for its immediate
adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the title.
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THE SECRETARY: By Senator McGee,
Legislative Resolution Number 1038, calling
upon the Governor to declare Tuesday,
April 20, 1999, as Forestry Awareness Day in
the State of New York.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution passes.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
believe there's a privilege resolution at the
desk by Senator Volker. May we please have
the title read and move for its immediate
adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the title.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Volker, Legislative Resolution Number 1034,
paying tribute to Mrs. Constance B. Eve upon
2110
the occasion of her designation for special
honor by the Western New York Region of the
National Conference for Community and Justice,
at its 46th Annual Citation Banquet on
April 20, 1999.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could take up the noncontroversial
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
263, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2788, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to motorcycle accident reporting.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
276, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 2886, an
act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the
imposition of additional taxes in the County
of Ulster.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
367, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3066, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to Assessment Review Commission in
the County of Nassau.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
424, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 2874, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
lawful possession of weapons by persons 11
years of age.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
449, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3651, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law -
SENATOR KUHL: Lay the bill aside
for the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
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THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
457, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2097, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
providing for certification of podiatrists as
acupuncturists.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
470, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3266, an
act making certain findings and determinations
with respect to certain bond anticipation
notes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
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Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
474, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2558, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to appropriate reduced speeds.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
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476, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3616,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to increasing penalties.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
516, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 762, an
act to amend the State Finance Law, in
relation to allocations from the State Police
Motor Vehicle Enforcement Account.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
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(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
558, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 3502, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
relation to misdemeanor complaints.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
564, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4203, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
the power of the Commissioner of
Transportation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
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THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
565, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4247, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to authorized emergency vehicles.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
566, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4248, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
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relation to the use of radar and laser
detectors.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
567, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4249, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to disregarding a lawful order.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
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THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
569, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4251, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to special hauling permits.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Yeah, could we
lay aside -- I had a question I wanted to ask
Senator Trunzo on -- reconsider the vote on
567, Calendar 567, in regard to fleeing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay -
SENATOR FARLEY: It just passed.
If we could reconsider the vote. I could
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probably talk to him, but -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay.
The Secretary will return to Calendar Number
567.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
567, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4249, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll on reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
will be laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
570, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4406, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law in
relation to drivers' schools.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
572, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4409, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to dimensions and weights of
vehicles.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
573, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4412, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to permissive revocation of a
driver's license.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
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act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: I'm going to
withdraw my objection to -- where are we at?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
can we wait just a minute? We're finishing a
roll call and -
SENATOR FARLEY: Well, let's do
the roll call.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. Nays,
2. Senators Duane and Schneiderman recorded
in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I'd like to withdraw my objection
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to 567, Senate 4249. I was concerned about
somebody that was pulled over in an unmarked
car that wasn't conspicuously -- with no
lights and so forth -- a woman, particularly,
that might be concerned and try to evade the
police officer.
It is taken care of in the bill, so
I withdraw my objection.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 567.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
567, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4249, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to disregarding a lawful order.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day -
SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Can we go to the
controversial calendar, please.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
276, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 2886, an
act to amend the Tax Law in relation to the
imposition of additional taxes in the County
of Ulster.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Breslin.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Through you,
Mr. President, may I ask the sponsor a
question?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield to a question from
Senator Breslin?
SENATOR BONACIC: Absolutely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Senator
Bonacic, is this bill accompanied by a home
rule message?
SENATOR BONACIC: It is. It was
passed on March 12, 1999, by the Ulster County
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Legislature, a home rule request for an
extension of a sales tax of 3/4 of a percent,
which expires on November 30, 1999. It takes
it for two years.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you very
much, Senator.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. Nays,
2. Senators Dollinger and Gentile recorded in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
424, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 2874, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
lawful possession of weapons.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
please.
2126
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Paterson of Calendar Number 424.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you,
Mr. President.
This bill was introduced at the
request of the Boy Scouts of America. The
bill is limited -- does not allow an
11-year-old to possess any rifle or shotgun,
but limits that to a single-shot .22 caliber
rifle. The bill does not allow possession at
any kind of a shooting -- any particular
shooting range, but is limited to those that
adhere to a strict layout and operating
standards established by the National Council
of the Boy Scouts of America.
The particulars about the specific
shooting ranges regards backstops, firing
ranges, firing lanes, and equipment storage
and a limit of no less than eight shooters
supervised by one instructor, among other
standards.
And unlike the current law -- the
current law says that an untrained parent or
guardian could do supervision. This one says,
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unlike it, an untrained parent or guardian may
not provide supervision. Rather, supervision
and instruction is limited to only certain
adults who are certified by the military, the
NRA, or Boy Scouts as a rifle instructor.
It amends the -- it amends the
Section 265.2 of the Penal Law by adding a new
paragraph, 7(c), thereby allowing a person 11
years of age to possess, load, and fire a
single-shot .22 caliber rifle at a shooting
range, the layout and operation of which
conform to the guidelines and operating
standards established by the National Council
of the Boy Scouts of America, when under the
immediate supervision and instruction of
certain certified instructors.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if Senator McGee would yield for a couple of
questions.
SENATOR McGEE: Certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, you
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actually answered one of my questions.
Because I had a concern that the parent or
guardian would be untrained and then providing
supervision to a minor who is also untrained,
and therefore there's a limitation on how much
training or lack of such would actually be at
issue here and whether or not there could be
proper supervision.
So I want to commend you for
changing the legislation from the way it
existed.
And then to go on, Mr. President,
to ask Senator McGee, are there any -- what
are the restrictions in the actual places
where the training can occur?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR McGEE: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
The restrictions are the specific
manner in which the backstops are put in, the
firing lanes, the equipment storage, and a
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limit of no more than eight shooters
supervised by one instructor. Those are some
very strict guidelines on the shooting range.
SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator
McGee would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Do you
continue to yield?
SENATOR McGEE: Of course.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: The standard
for how many instructors can be present per
trainees, 1 to 8, certainly is closer to the
type of regular training that exists for
adults. But when you have young people as
young as 11 years old, do you think that that
creates a situation where one human being
can't always keep an eye on eight individuals
who are armed with a weapon at their -- at
their age?
SENATOR McGEE: If you'll permit
me.
I do not know what the present
standards are for any adult supervised firing
range. But I believe that the no more than
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eight on this particular one, with instructors
who have been trained by the NRA and the
military or a Boy Scouts rifle instructor,
are -- they're a -- an adequate number and an
appropriate number.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President.
Thanks, Senator McGee, for that
answer. And if the Senator would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
do you continue to yield?
SENATOR McGEE: Of course. Of
course.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: I believe I
wasn't clear enough, Senator. What I was
really trying to say is I understand is that
they're restricting it to eight. But this is
a standard that is more commonly used with
adults.
And I was just saying that when it
came to those of age 11, who are approximately
in the sixth grade, what I'm just saying is
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that is that -- do you think that that is the
right ratio?
Because it's not exactly always the
amount of training that the supervisor has,
but if it's that if they are in any ways
distracted by an individual situation, it's
just that one human being cannot always be
that mindful of what seven other human beings
are doing.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you,
Senator Paterson.
Yes, I do believe so. This was, as
I say, at the request of the Boy Scouts of
America. Again, under very close training,
very strict guidelines.
So yes, I think the number of
eight -- you have to remember, these are
trained individuals watching very carefully.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. And it was very gracious of
Senator McGee to answer my questions.
On the bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
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Paterson on the bill.
SENATOR PATERSON: I'm greatly
relieved to see the corrections that Senator
McGee has made in this bill, such that from
here on in, only those with the proper
training will be allowed to supervise the
young people who at age 11 will be accorded
the opportunity to learn how to use a firearm.
I'm still a little bit concerned
about the ratio of 1 to 8 as the proper
supervision mechanism. I'm going to check
that out. I'm going to vote against the bill
for now, but I will look into it. Senator
McGee very much may be right.
I would like to tell you,
Mr. President, as I told Senator Volker in
committee some years ago, that on November 29,
1968, when I was 14 years of age and it was my
brother's 11th birthday, I remember the BB gun
he got for his birthday and how he shot me
with it ten minutes later. I've never quite
gotten over it.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Smith.
2133
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you,
Mr. President.
Good for Danny.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR SMITH: Would the sponsor
yield for a question, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, do you yield?
SENATOR McGEE: Yes, of course.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
Is there any waivers involved?
Would the parents have to sign a waiver prior
to the child being involved in the shooting
practice or whatever?
SENATOR McGEE: Well, as with any
type of activity in the Boy Scouts, or any
organization of that manner, there is a
permission signed by the parents.
SENATOR SMITH: There would be a
permission slip. But are they signing
waivers?
SENATOR McGEE: Waivers towards
what?
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SENATOR SMITH: For insurance
purposes, or waivers if their child should
become hurt while engaging in this shooting.
SENATOR McGEE: My counsel on my
left tells me that you cannot waive a child's
rights.
SENATOR SMITH: I couldn't hear
you.
SENATOR McGEE: My counsel on my
left tells me that you cannot waive a child's
rights.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you,
Senator Marcellino.
Also, in how many other states are
the Boy Scouts utilizing this type of program?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, do you yield to the question?
SENATOR McGEE: Yes. Yes, I do.
Thank you.
And I don't have that information,
but I'd be more than happy to find it out for
you and give it to you at a later date.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you.
SENATOR McGEE: You're welcome.
SENATOR SMITH: On the bill.
2135
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Smith on the bill.
SENATOR SMITH: Since the Boy
Scouts of America has requested this, I will
vote in favor of it. But I still have
reservations as to whether it is still safe
for our young people.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Mr. Chairman,
will the distinguished Senator yield for a
couple of questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, do you yield?
SENATOR McGEE: But of course.
But of course.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Even though
this is being introduced by the Boy Scouts of
America, is the bill applicable to the Girl
Scouts of America as well?
SENATOR McGEE: Well, that
certainly is a good question, Senator. I
cannot give you an answer for it. But if the
2136
Girl Scouts of America wish to do this type of
bill, I would be more than happy to sponsor it
for them.
SENATOR LACHMAN: So what you're
saying is that all young men and young women
from the age of 11 on will be able to
participate in this?
SENATOR McGEE: If this -- yes.
It says a person or a child.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Is there a
stated goal or objective that the Boy Scouts
of -- I'm sorry, Mr. President, may I
continue?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR McGEE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: She
yields.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Is there a
stated objective or goal, Senator McGee, that
the Boy Scouts of America, in their infinite
wisdom, has developed for the use of firearms
by children in the sixth grade, both boys and
probably or possibly girls?
SENATOR McGEE: If I may.
2137
I don't have it stated in my memo,
quite honestly. But yes, I suspect that their
major force behind this is to promote safe use
of firearms, to promote the safety of any type
of individual on a firing range, no matter
what age.
Certainly an early start in the
proper and safe use of firearms at 11 years of
age is not uncalled for.
SENATOR LACHMAN: One final
question, Mr. Chairman. Would Senator McGee
yield -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
McGee, do you yield for another question?
SENATOR McGEE: Yes, of course I
do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LACHMAN: What is
sacrosanct about 11? Why not 10, why not 12,
why not 13?
SENATOR McGEE: Well, we already
have one for 12. There is already -
SENATOR LACHMAN: So this lowers
it by one year.
2138
SENATOR McGEE: Yes, it does.
And it -- but it brings it into
the -- the very close supervision.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Thank you.
I'm voting against it.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Padavan.
SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I'd like to respond to some of the
concerns that were expressed by our colleagues
relative to this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Padavan, could I get some order first, please.
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Can we
have some order in the chamber.
Senator Padavan.
SENATOR PADAVAN: As I'm sure
others in this room can attest to, I am the
father of a Boy Scout. As a result of that
fact, I spent time with him at Ten Mile River,
which is the Boy Scout camp that serves much
of the metropolitan area for the summer.
And I was with him on the firing
2139
range where these youngsters are taught
firearm safety, which I think is the most
important part of the program. Before they
even step up there or a rifle is put in their
hands, they are given an extensive orientation
on the safety involved in having a weapon,
using a weapon, and in every other respect.
It is a merit badge item that a Boy
Scout achieves, one of the merit badges they
accumulate on the way up to, as so many of you
are familiar with, Eagle Scout.
One round goes in the chamber of
that rifle. It's a single-shot rifle. And
when they're lying there in a prone position
on the firing range, there is one instructor,
as defined by this bill, but also there are
all the other Scout leaders with them. So you
have more than one person per eight at any
given time.
And that youngster has that one .22
round in the barrel and fires it, and that's
it for the moment.
In all the years that I've been
familiar with that particular facility,
there's never been a single incident, never.
2140
Perfect safety record. So I think that what
Senator McGee has proposed here makes a great
deal of sense.
Now, Senator, your question about
Girl Scouts. My daughter was a Girl Scout.
They don't have this as a merit badge item.
There are no firing ranges at Girl Scout
camps. Totally discriminatory, but a fact.
SENATOR LACHMAN: As long as you
admit it.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 424 are
Senators Duane, Kruger, Lachman, Paterson,
Rosado, and Santiago. Ayes, 50. Nays, 6.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
2141
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
567, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4249, an
act to amend the Vehicle -
SENATOR TRUNZO: Lay the bill
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside at the request of the sponsor.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
no housekeeping at the desk.
SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
further business, I move we adjourn until
Tuesday, April 20th, at 3:00 p.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, April 20, at 3:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 3:37 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)