Regular Session - May 12, 1999
2889
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE
STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 12, 1999
11:03 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will come to order. Please rise and
join me in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance
to the Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
invocation will be offered by the Reverend Dr.
Ernest E. Drake of the Metropolitan New
Testament Missionary Baptist Church in Albany,
New York.
Reverend Drake.
REVEREND DRAKE: May we bow our
heads.
Oh, God, of our weary years, God of
our silent tears, thou has brought us this far
on our way. Thy will cast by the night and
let us into the light, keep us forever in the
path, provide guidance for the legislators as
they debate, deliberate major entries for the
daily use of our 18 million residents of our
great State.
Bless each legislator one by one
and give them the desires of their own heart.
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We ask these blessings in Thy son,
Jesus Christ's name, and for his sake.
Amen.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Tuesday, May 11th, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May 12th,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you, Mr.
President. On behalf of Senator Saland,
please place a sponsor star on Calendar Number
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935 and 936.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: So
ordered.
SENATOR McGEE: Again, Mr.
President, on page number 30, I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 666,
Senate Print Number 4287, and that said bill
retain its place in Third Reading Calendar, on
behalf of Senator Larkin.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and the bill will
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR McGEE: On behalf of
Senator Bonacic, on page number 31, I offer
the following amendments to Calendar Number
686, Senate Print Number 3905, and ask that
said bill retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and the bill will
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you Mr.
President.
2893
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Thank
you, Senator McGee.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could take
up the non-controversial calendar, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the non-controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
286, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2271-A,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to requiring.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect in 180 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
396, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 972, an
act to amend the Correction Law and the
2894
Executive Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the 21st day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. Also
Senate Schneiderman. Ayes 35, nays 2.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
574, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1512, an
act to amend the Correction Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
2895
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
578, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3776-A,
an act to amend the Executive Law.
SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
639, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4201, an
act to amend the Transportation Law and
Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
2896
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
748, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3790, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 30th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
787, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1847-A,
an act to amend the Education Law, in relation
to making maintenance contracts.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
2897
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
788, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2420-A,
an act to authorize payment of transportation
aid.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a local fiscal impact note at the desk. Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
791, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3928,
an act in relation to validating the
establishment of certain requirement funds.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
2898
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
793, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4390, an
act to authorize payment of -
SENATOR RATH: Lay the bill aside
for the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
804, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2662, an
act to amend the Civil Service Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
2899
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
833, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4379, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
858, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5064, an
act in relation to adjusting certain state aid
payments.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
2900
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
861, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4507, an
act to amend the State Administrative
Procedure Act.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
October.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
886, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2039, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
designating.
2901
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
900, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1526, an
act to amend the County Law, in relation to
permitting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 30th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2902
905, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3925, an
act to legalize, validate and confirm the
establishment of a water district.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home rule message at the desk. Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
923, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1593, an
act to amend the Mental Hygiene, Law the
Correction Law and the Criminal Procedure Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
2903
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
984, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 974, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1038, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5571, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
the apportionment for pupil transportation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a local fiscal impact note at the desk. Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
July.
2904
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. Excuse
me. Ayes 41, nays 1.
Senator Hevesi recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1056, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2043-B,
an act to amend the Education Law, in relation
to the practice.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the non-controversial calendar.
2905
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could take up Calendar Number 923 by
Senator Volker at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calender 923.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
923, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1593, an
act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, the
Correction Law and the Criminal Procedure Law.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Volker, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 923.
SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
this is a bill that essentially is the same
bill as last year that relates to civil
commitment of sexually violent predators. One
thing I would quickly point out, when the bill
was initially submitted to this house several
years ago and I had the original bill which
was patterned after a court case that was
involved a civil commitment statute out of the
west, it frankly did not have as much of what
I call complication as this, but it is
complicated because what the Governor's people
2906
did was to do something that we had talked
about doing and that was to change the way in
which the system worked and frankly made it, I
think, more fair and although it is somewhat
more complicated it sets up a process by which
a person who is either civilly committed under
the Mental Hygiene Law or in prison, the
process by which that person is adjudged
whether he or she would be a problem for
society is in effect what it is and a
determination made as to whether that person
should be either detained in a criminal
setting or in a mental hygiene setting, and
the bill provides that that person must be
separate from the ordinary people as the
saying goes who are either in the prison
setting or in the mental health setting.
So it provides by the way, let me
make clear that eventually a jury trial at
which time the person must be adjudged beyond
a reasonable doubt to in effect be a danger to
society and to be a sexually violent predator
who is not in a position to be released back
out to society.
Let me just say in all candor
2907
probably the way this process is set up there
seems to be some thought that there would be a
lot of people who would probably be involved
in this. The likelihood is that there would
be a limited number of people who would
eventually go through this process. And
because there are various levels that are set
up where determinations can be made whether to
proceed or not. So I think that probably the
numbers of people who would be actually
adjudged under this system would be more
limited, I think, than some people think.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, will Senator Volker yield just for
a couple quick questions?
SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is the
same bill we did last year?
SENATOR VOLKER: Essentially the
2908
same bill. There is a few changes but they
are virtually all programmatic and drafting
improvements, but they are virtually the same
bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President, if Senator Volker
will continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: How does the
civil confinement under this bill end? Could
you briefly describe for me the process by
which, and I know we debated this last year,
we debated it before, but go through the civil
commitment.
SENATOR VOLKER: What do you mean
by end? The person is adjudged to be a
sexually violent predator after a jury trial
the person is then committed. That person
must be reviewed.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Serves that
criminal time and are now at a point where
2909
they are out, the are eligible for release
from criminal confinement. Then as I
understand it, there is a separate
determination, a jury determination that they
have served their criminal sentence, they
still however are a dangerous predator and
therefore beyond a reasonable doubt a jury
concludes that they will be confined.
My question is, is there a point, I
mean it is obviously not a confinement for
life.
SENATOR VOLKER: Right.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: It is a
confinement subject to at some point either
the defendant slash civil confinee can file a
petition or someone can file a petition on
their behalf to ask that that designation be
removed. I'm just interested in how that
process works.
SENATOR VOLKER: They can file a
petition but actually the way the legislation
reads they must be reviewed every year.
Annually they must be reviewed and evaluated
by a psychiatric examiner to determine whether
that person is, I don't want to say, cured but
2910
is -- that person's stability is enough that
he or she could be released back to society.
And by the way, as part of that there can be a
-- a person can ask for a psychiatric
evaluation he or she self and if the review
finds that the person is or has got to a point
where it is determined that he or she would
not be a threat to society then they can
authorize a petition to discharge that person
from commitment.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through
you, Mr. President, if Senator Volker will
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question
is, when that petition is filed to and the
civil confinement, is there then a trial under
which the same burden of proof is used, or who
has the burden of proof to end the civil
confinement?
You are obviously civilly confined
2911
on the basis of a finding of beyond a
reasonable doubt that you continue to be a
predator. What are the tests for then
subsequently releasing? Does the petitioner
have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that
he is no longer a predator?
SENATOR VOLKER: No, the
petitioner -- the attorney general, according
to the process, must once again prove beyond a
reasonable doubt, and by the way, of course if
the attorney general agrees with the
psychiatrist then that person they can just
adopt it, that petition can be accepted and
the person obviously can be released. But if
there are objections to it then once again the
attorney general has to prove beyond a
reasonable doubt that that person is not
capable of managing in society and in fact
would be a danger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Volker.
I voted for this bill in the past.
I just wanted to go through again that portion
of it which I think was a source of concern
for myself and others, and that is for those
2912
of us who agree that even after criminal
confinement ends, after the sentence has been
served and someone has paid their debt to
society, do they exhibit those psychological
characteristics which allow us to determine or
to make some judgment about their propensity
to continue to be a predator. And I am
satisfied that beyond a reasonable doubt
status, the requirement to prove beyond a
reasonable doubt, gives the defendant who has
now paid his debt, it gives him the protection
that the government will have to show by
overwhelming if not conclusive evidence that
he continues to be a problem, he or she. And
then the issue of whether, at what point that
ends. At some point, if we belive in
rehabilitation we do believe that this can
change. And it seems to me that the procedure
outlined by Senator Volker creates a
reasonable possibility that someone, if they
do achieve rehabilitation, will be allowed to
be freed and their confinement will not
continue for an unreasonable period of time
after they achieve that goal.
I would just urge that if this bill
2913
does get to conference or does become the
negotiation, the source of negotiation with
the Assembly that everybody continue to look
at that provision. I know that the Kansas
statute, which was upheld by the Supreme
Court, did give us the power in those, and I
agree with Senator Volker, I believe these
will be somewhat limited circumstance. But I
believe that we really should be vigilant to
make sure that the post confinement remedy to
be able to be freed if you demonstrate as best
as we can given the limitations of psychology
and psychology and everything else, once we -
once the experts are satisfied that
rehabilitation has taken place to a point
where a person can be free, that they have not
only paid their debt to society bu that they
had been rehabilitated, that we accelerate and
we give them as quick and as easy a path so
that they can reenter the general population.
I would note that that probably
does not come with any guarantees or any
absolute risk free, but I certainly think that
it will give us the opportunity to insure that
our system is fair, that due process is served
2914
and at the same time that we eliminate
dangerous predators for whom rehabilitation
has not occurred from our streets.
So I voted in favor of this in the
past. I am going to vote for it again today.
I do so with some cautions, but I think the
bill addresses many of those, and my hope is
that if we get this to committee we can grind
out all those details and come up with a bill
that does the job, protects our neighborhoods
and is fair to the accused.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Volker.
SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, let me
just say to you that we debated this bill I
believe, you and I debated it and Senator
Leichter and a number of others here when the
statute first was drafted and my counsel at
the time is now counsel to DCJS, Ken Connolly,
actually drafted the original bill.
It was one of our concerns too as
to how you, the so-called end game. In other
words, what happens after a person is in. And
we drafted, we did put language in it to try
to provide a process, but this bill, the
2915
Governor's people had worked long and hard, I
think, to improve that section as to what
happens afterwards. And this bill, which is
basically the same as last year, one of the
major changes I think was that they did
improve the section post the time that a
person is found initially to be kept in as a
sexually violent predator to what happens
after that and they set up this process, a
much more inclusive process after that
happens, so I think it was a concern to us and
I think it was a concern obviously to the
Governor and to everyone as to what would
happen and to make sure that there was a
review after that because you don't want to
have the situations that apparently occurred
in the Mental Hygiene Department years ago
where you had people who were determined to be
incompetent or whatever and stayed in and
disappeared and frankly got lost. And now
there is -- but in this bill there is a
provision, even if nobody brings any petitions
automatically they must be reevaluated at
least annually and then the process is set up
in this bill as to how that person would be
2916
determined as to whether they should stay in
or whether they should be released or not.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hoffmann.
SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would like
to compliment Senator Volker on taking the
initiative to bring this bill to the floor
today. Senator Volker has worked on this many
years and Governor Pataki has embraced the
concept of sex offender action. He deals with
the issue of sexual predators in a very
different way than was dealt with in years
past and with his leadership and Senator
Volker's we have this excellent bill on the
floor today and I am very happy to have my
name on it as a co-sponsor.
Some members of this chamber will
remember that this was an issue that I worked
on more than ten years ago. And at that time
it was very difficult to get people to discuss
the issue in a forthright manner. It makes
everyone squeamish. Quite frankly, it is hard
to have people talk about the details of
incarceration much less the actual science of
treatment for predicate sex offenders. I
2917
learned this when I worked with a small task
force and a director of Criminal Justice
Services in this State and conducted a
nationwide survey of programs for sex
offenders which were designed to treat them
while incarcerated and turning them loose to
society as somewhat less of a risk than if
they were merely warehoused in the prison
system. And at the same time we studied, at
that time only a couple of states had a bill
requiring civil commitment for sex offenders.
The two states that were in the forefront of
this are Washington State and Kansas. Of the
two it was Kansas that had its statute go to
the Supreme Court first and it was upheld.
Based on the fact that the Supreme
Court has ruled that we are able as a state to
make the determination that some sex offenders
are such a risk to society upon completion of
their sentence it behooves us, it compels us
to pass into law, this particular measure, so
that we have the ability to protect the
citizens of this State.
Let me just give one analogy that I
think has troubled me throughout the years
2918
when I have discussed this subject. Here in
government in virtually any other policy area
we have references to avoided cost. The
avoided cost of solid waste by using a
recycling concept and using recycling even
when mandated justifies government actions
because the taxpayers will benefit.
We have all kinds of ways where we
attempt in social services, through the finger
imaging to reduce the cost to government by
doing something with our authority as
legislators. But when it comes to avoided
victimization we have been way too timid.
What we will do with this measure
is avoid the crime of rape for thousands of
women and children in this state and we'll
probably also avoid murders. It is difficult
to calculate, but I tried in the late eighties
to actually put some numbers together, and
when you sit around in a room full of sex
offenders in a prison and ask them to write
quietly on a little piece of paper that no one
else sees, the actual number of their victims
it is startling to discover afterwards that
the number may go into several dozen. In some
2919
cases it could come close to a hundred. It
always exceeds the number of victims for which
an individual sex offender was actually
sentenced.
There are many, many sexual
offenses that are never punished. There are
many that are never reported, and there are
some for which the sentence is way too small
because the simple concept of forcing a child
or even adult victim to testify and relive the
agony of that experience is so horrendous that
frequently in the interest of fairness to the
victim the charges are reduced, some kind of a
plea bargain occurs and a serious rapist or
child molester is sentenced to much less time
than would happen if the crime had been a
burglary or any other felony.
So what we have had is a system
where sex offenders tend to be the ones who
can cycle in and out of the prison system or
never experience the prison system at all
until their victim populations goes way up.
We need a two pronged approach in
this State. We must be much more aggressive
about the treatment of sex offenders at the
2920
early stages of their offense. Many of them
can learn to identify with their behavior in
such a way that they will control it. We do
not use the word rehabilitate when we talk
about sex offender treatment. It is much too
soft and mushy and it is the "L" word that I
think we would want to avoid. And it really
does not matter how it is you get them to
change their behavior. If it is for their own
zone self-interest that they change it, that
is good enough for us, because we must get
them to change their behavior, keep them
supervised upon release to be closely
monitored, and if they are not able to change
their behavior and they are violent sex
offenders, they should remain incarcerated.
We can have them, under civil
commitment, reviewed annually while they can
continue the treatments. And I was amazed
when I conducted the study in the late
eighties and the early nineties at the wide
range of treatment options that are out there.
Some of them, the one that we use in New York
State now, are largely traditional;
psychoanalysis and a much more basic concept
2921
of education and analysis of the root causes.
When you get out to the west coast
and in a few other states, they actually have
programs that involve use of chemicals,
treatment involving electric shock, a number
of things that are designed to stimulate a
different type of urge or reduce the urges
that these sex offenders suffer from.
As this science changes, as it
expands, we need to be aggressive in
identifying what will work and we need to try
it in this state. In the meantime we need to
insure that those violent sexual predators
that have preyed on the women and children of
this state remain incarcerated under a civil
commitment statute for as long as is
reasonably appropriate and that they should
continue to receive all available treatment in
a hope that their behavior can be controlled
upon release.
The other part of this whole issue
is what happens with parole. And I worked
with a previous parole commissioner, Raoul
Russi, some years ago, to arrange for a
dedicated sex offender case load and
2922
specialized training for parole officers. I
have since met with some of the parole
officers and their supervisors and they tell
me now that with the training they have
received and with the ability to supervise a
smaller number of parolees that they are
better able to anticipate the recidivism signs
of a sex offender who was paroled. They know
now that there are certain things that an
individual will do when he or he is beginning
down that downward spiral and is looked to
molest a young child or commit the crime of
rape. And with the training of our parole
officers we have also made New York State a
somewhat safer place, but it is only a
beginning and we must do more of that as well.
So again, my compliments to Senator
Volker for his long leadership in this area.
My thanks to the Governor for making it one of
his priorities, and I ask all of my colleagues
to make us proud of what New York State is
doing in this area and make this a unanimous
vote today.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
2923
THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
578, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3776-A,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to eligibility for counseling.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar Number 578, by Senator Duane.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr.
President.
The measure before us is introduced
at the request of the State Crime Victim's
2924
Board and amends the law to add to the list of
those able to receive compensation from the
Crime Victim's Board the spouse or child or
step-child of a victim of a crime who has
sustained physical injury.
Particularly the area of those
crimes where sex offenses were the nature,
those who are very closely connected to the
victim may have the need for counseling and
other service that the Crime Victims Board can
authorize and pay for.
The attorney general stated that
under current law only a sex offense victim
who had suffered traumatic shock is eligible
to be reimbursement for the cost of counseling
services. And obviously, Mr. President, my
colleagues, because of the nature of these
crimes the trauma that could perpetrate to not
just the direct victim but the indirect
victim, scarred none the less by the crime.
Certainly to open up this process to those
closely connected to the victim would make
sense and justice.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
2925
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
would the sponsor yield to a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield to a question?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Under this legislation, if my
domestic partner were to be murdered would I
be eligible to receive counseling?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There is no
impact on the present law. This does not
change the scope under present law and it is
my understanding that present law may be
applicable under the circumstances you site.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm sorry, Mr.
President, I didn't catch the last sentence of
the sponsor's response.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It is my
understanding, Mr. President, that the
situation described by Senate Duane, that
requesting -- Senator Duane's question can be
answered in Article 22 of the Executive Law,
2926
Section 624 "1" sub "i". That a surviving
spouse of a crime victim who died would be
listed. But it is my understanding those
sections may -- I reference those sections of
law for Senator Duane to see if the
theoretical example which he asked for
complies under that section.
It would be up to Senator Duane's
interpretation, not mine.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
would the sponsor yield to another question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm not sure what
you are talking about. I mean, I would like
it that every law was open to my
interpretation, but tragically the State
doesn't operate that way yet.
As I read it, it explicitly says
that that is not the case. If you look at the
way the law originally was in section
whatever, line 11, it is number "1c", "Any
2927
other person dependent for his principal
support upon a victim of a crime who died as a
direct result of such crime." However in this
legislation it does not say that.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Duane,
Mr. President, if I may, the eligibility for
those who could receive compensation from the
Crime Victim's Board is listed in Article 22
of the Executive Law, Section 624.
I dare say if Senator Duane wishes
to see who is eligible and who is not he only
needs to refer to that section of the statute.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, if
I may continue, through you.
If that is the case then can we
amend the bill so as to actually reference
that section of the law in the bill because I
am afraid that while we may be discussing it
in that way now that in the future our
discussion on this matter is not something
that is legally going to be referenced either
by the board, or if it were to go to courts,
by a court of law.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: This measure
before us expands the eligibility of those who
2928
are entitled to receive compensation under the
Crime Victim's Board procedures. That entire
eligibility section is in Article 22 of the
Executive Law, Section 624. If Senator Duane
or any other Senator has a question regarding
who is eligible or who is not, I refer them to
Article 22, Section 624 of the Executive Law,
which lists the eligibility of those who could
receive compensation from the Crime Victim's
Board.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: I one hundred
percent agree that that is part of the old
law, but the new language in this law, "J",
says, "A spouse, child or step-child of a
victim of a crime." It is a very specific.
It is not as unspecific as is, for instance,
the section that already exists that says any
other person dependent for his principal
support, which would be a domestic object
partner. But this does include those
categories of persons who would be entitled to
the counseling. In fact, by its omission in
2929
the phrase, "A spouse, child or step-child,"
indeed they would be precluded from getting
counseling, or I would be precluded from
getting counseling if my domestic partner were
murdered. And I'm not sure that that of
course was the intention, but it does seem to
be that's the way the bill is written and I
would request that maybe we could go and
clarify that language so that in such a tragic
circumstance I would be able to receive
counseling upon the death through crime of my
domestic partner.
I think I was making a request, if
we go back and do that with this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Just to
clarify what we are doing here, are you asking
the sponsor a question, Senator Duane?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield to the question that
has been put to you.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
as you know, I would be happy to yield to any
member of this august body. If Senator Duane
2930
has a question I would be glad to be
responsive to it.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, the sponsor has indicated he would be
willing to yield for a question.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
perhaps you could guide me. I believe I asked
a question and I was wondering if you could
rule whether or not it is a question. It
feels like a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, why don't we -- we try to deal in a
little more than feelings. Lets see if we can
get this done.
Senator Duane, the sponsor has
indicated that he would yield to a question.
Would you like to restate your question?
SENATOR DUANE: I was wondering
if the sponsor would perhaps lay aside the
bill just so that we could clarify this and
revisit it with a clarification on the issue
which we have been discussing today regarding
domestic partners being able to get counseling
when their partner has been murdered through a
crime.
2931
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
in response to Senator Duane's question, it is
my belief that this measure before us today is
explicit, clear, direct in trying to care for
those victims of crime. That if Senator Duane
has an amendment, has a modification or other
appropriate additions to this statute, I
recommended to Senator Duane to follow the
procedures of this house and present those
amendments.
This bill stands. It does a good
job in expanding help to those who need it
under the crime victims compensation statute
and the bill is properly before this house. I
ask for it to be considered.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, if
the sponsor will yield to another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield to another question?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
2932
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I one hundred
percent agree that the intent of this
legislation is wonderful and I wholeheartedly
agree with it. What I am concerned about is,
you know, because the concept of domestic
partners is a relatively new one, I don't ever
really expect that it is a matter upper most
on anyone's minds unless perhaps they happen
to have a domestic partner.
So I'm not in any way trying to say
anything negative about this legislation. I
think it is excellent legislation. I am
trying to make sure as best as I can that it
explicitly includes all of the categories of
people that I very much believe was the intent
of the legislation.
And in that the language in the
bill, in the original law that has not been
amended is actually more inclusive, I was
hoping that because there is still time to do
so that we could make it in fact and indeed be
as inclusive as I do believe it was intended
and meant to be. And I was wondering if the
-- and I, you know, I certainly take
2933
responsibility for not having had flagged this
earlier on. You might find this hard to
believe because I have been gay now longer
than I have not been gay in my life and I'm
pretty used to it, but even for someone like
me, it is not always the first thing I think
about. It may have something to do with, you
know, I live in the general society and so I
don't always think of these things that don't
include issues that are important to me, and
sadly this happens to be one of the cases
where it didn't really occur to me until I -
because the way I originally looked at the
language that included the board it did seem
to include everyone, but when I took a closer
look at this this morning before coming onto
the floor I did think that there was an
omission.
I am not trying to do this as some
kind of surprise attack. It truly did not
occur to me that I would not be included in
this if my domestic partner should be the
victim of a violent crime.
So I apologize for not having had
thought of its sooner, but in that it did
2934
occur to me I was hoping that we could go back
and clarify it in a manner that was acceptable
to the sponsor and that would, you know, take
into account my concerns as well.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
would Senator Duane repeat the question?
SENATOR DUANE: I basically was
apologizing for not having noticed what I feel
is an exclusion of what could be my personal
circumstances or circumstances of other people
around the state prior to this. But in that I
did flag it this morning I was wondering if
the sponsor would consider just holding back
momentarily on the legislation so that we
could clarify the language to include those
New Yorkers, including myself, who I feel are
at risk of being excluded by this legislation
for absolutely terrific provision of
counseling which I support wholeheartedly.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I believe the
bill is properly before this house. It
addresses a need that needs to be addressed
2935
and that certain modifications to this measure
are always inopportune. That Senator Duane or
any other Senator could present additional
amendments to the statute at any time, but
frankly I belive we should move on with this
measure and that should Senator Duane or other
Senators wish to modify it at a future time,
that certainly is their prerogative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, on
the bill then.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: I plan on voting
for this because I don't want to hold up the
ability of other spouses and close family
members to receive counseling after a
traumatic effect, but I would request of my
colleagues that we revisit this and the
sponsor as well, in the most collegial way so
as to modify the language perhaps in a way
that would make it as inclusive as for
instance Brochi and other cases have shown.
I am concerned, just generally, in
2936
that as many of you know, domestic partners
are not covered in this body, are not able to
get health benefits for instance as is every
other domestic partner of a state employee
every where in state government and even in
quasi government bodies, the Metropolitan
Transportation Authority, etc, have all
provided domestic partnership. We don't have
it here for members or employees of the state
Senate, and I think that it is important for
us to remedy that situation so that all New
Yorkers are treated equally.
As you know, I believe very
strongly that it is discrimination for those
who are not able to be married, therefore do
not get the same level of benefits as those
who are able to be married. That is what the
discrimination is, even in so far as it goes
to the issue of equal pay for equal work, if I
got married tomorrow my spouse would
immediately be entitled to get health
benefits, but -- and therefore would be being
compensated at a higher rate. That means
because I can't cover my domestic partner I am
actually being compensated at a lower rate and
2937
that is not fair.
Benefits are something you get as a
benefit of being employed or being elected a
State Senator, not something that you get as a
benefit of being married. The benefit is tied
to the profession, not to whether you are
married or not, and it is unfair. And it
seems to me that, as is the case in this, that
while if I got married tomorrow and my spouse
were murdered I would be entitled to get
counseling because of that terrible tragedy,
but because I would have a domestic partner
and if he were to be murdered tomorrow I would
not entitled to get the counseling and that is
just not right, that is just not fair. And
that is what my objection is.
So again, Mr. President, I plan on
voting in the affirmative on this, but I am
hoping that we could come back soon, very
soon, and revisit this to make it so that
every New Yorker, every Senator, every staff
member is treated equally under the laws of
the State of New York.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
2938
Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi, on the bill.
SENATOR HEVESI: I rise briefly
to concur with the sentiments of Senator
Duane. The lack of domestic partnership in
this legislation is, in my opinion, a glaring
omission. As it is a glaring omission in
other facets of the law in New York State.
This is a good piece of
legislation. Inclusion of that provision,
that protection, that service to other
individuals who deserve it as much as any
other crime victims would make this a much
better piece of legislation. I support it but
would like to draw attention to this issue
hopefully raise the awareness of this
institution of the feeling that this is
necessary at this point to address issues
which have not been addressed such as Senator
Duane brings to our attention.
Domestic partners deserve the same
rights and privileges and services that are
2939
offered to other individuals, and until such
time as we recognize that we will have failed
in effectuating policy which serves all New
Yorkers.
I vote in favor of this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Balboni, that concludes the
reading of controversial calendar.
SENATOR BALBONI: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Fuschillo. I'm sorry, Senator Hoffmann.
SENATOR HOFFMANN: We are
frequently confused.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Not
really, but go ahead.
2940
SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President,
on page 37, I offer the following amendments
to Calendar 775.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received.
SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President, certainly on a lighter note
than the legislation that was discussed and
voted on, I rise to discuss what I think will
go down as one of the greatest days in the
State's history, that is May 12th, 1959. And
on every Tuesday we pass resolutions
recognizing individual accomplishments in this
house, but I want to recognize an individual
in this chamber who was born on that day. And
many of you under estimate his wit, his humor,
his good looks, his intellect and his charm.
And my next statement may cause a debate in
this house. I know Senator Schneiderman has
jumped to his feet out of his chair, but I
believe in the last 40 years he has grown to
be a legend in his own mind, and that is none
2941
other than the great Senator, geographically
from my district, from the north, Senator
Balboni.
Now, I see a hand being raised on
the other side of the aisle.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman, why do you rise?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Would the
gentleman yield to a question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Fuschillo, will you yield to a question?
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Can you
explain to me the Senate rules if I say no on
that question that Senator Schneiderman has
asked?
Mr. President, it would be an honor
for me to yield to a question from one of my
colleagues.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
President, I would like to ask the gentleman
if he has any back-up documentation to support
his contention here. Because we have obtained
documentary that in fact Senator Balboni is
2942
43, and has been concealing his age for quite
sometime and the file also reveals the draft
speech nominating Senator Skelos as Nassau
County Executive.
We'll make a full disclosure of
this at a later date, but I would just like to
see if Senator Fuschillo has, in fact,
ascertains the actual date of birth of the
gentleman at issue.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I think my
colleague to the left said it best, the usual
flaw and over reaction from the other side of
the aisle. I had spoken with the
distinguished Senator's mom last night and
asked for some documentation. She offered
video tapes. I said no thanks. But that
documentation will be forthcoming. I would be
happy to provide it to my colleagues.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I
appreciate that. Although the Senator's mom
is a good source I have in fact spoken to
Norman Adler and I think I will be glad to
produce the real documentation at a later
date.
Thank you, Mr. President. I allow
2943
the gentleman to proceed.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No further
comments.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will Senator
Fuschillo yeld to one more question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Fuschillo, will you yield to a question from
Senator Stachowski?
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I would be
happy to.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: He would
be happy to, but he doesn't mean it. Go
ahead.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: When you
were talking about Senator Balboni's growth,
were you speaking about his girth or his
accomplishments?
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I just want
to thank my colleagues for allowing me to rise
on this occasion and I wish my colleague a
wonderful day and happy birthday.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni.
2944
SENATOR BALBONI: Two comments,
Mr. President. The first is, you think I talk
a lot? Fuschillo, what has gotten into you?
And the second is, I am reminded of Macbeth's
quote, "Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow
creeps at this petty pace." Except it has
been a wonderful pace. Thank you for your
kind wishes.
Having no other business to come
before the Senate today I move that we adjourn
until Monday, May 17th at 3:00 p.m.,
intervening days being legislative days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, happy birthday. And on motion the
Senate stands adjourned until Monday, at 3:00
p.m., intervening days being legislative days.
(Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m. the
Senate adjourned.)