Regular Session - May 12, 1999

                                                              2889





                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                                    THE

                            STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               May 12, 1999

                                11:03 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION





                 SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary















                                                          2890



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senate will come to order.  Please rise and

                 join me in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance

                 to the Flag.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 invocation will be offered by the Reverend Dr.

                 Ernest E. Drake of the Metropolitan New

                 Testament Missionary Baptist Church in Albany,

                 New York.

                            Reverend Drake.

                            REVEREND DRAKE:    May we bow our

                 heads.

                            Oh, God, of our weary years, God of

                 our silent tears, thou has brought us this far

                 on our way.  Thy will cast by the night and

                 let us into the light, keep us forever in the

                 path, provide guidance for the legislators as

                 they debate, deliberate major entries for the

                 daily use of our 18 million residents of our

                 great State.

                            Bless each legislator one by one

                 and give them the desires of their own heart.





                                                          2891



                            We ask these blessings in Thy son,

                 Jesus Christ's name, and for his sake.

                            Amen.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading

                 of the Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Tuesday, May 11th, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, May 12th,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:  Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On behalf of Senator Saland,

                 please place a sponsor star on Calendar Number





                                                          2892



                 935 and 936.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR McGEE:  Again, Mr.

                 President, on page number 30, I offer the

                 following amendments to Calendar Number 666,

                 Senate Print Number 4287, and that said bill

                 retain its place in Third Reading Calendar, on

                 behalf of Senator Larkin.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and the bill will

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            SENATOR McGEE:  On behalf of

                 Senator Bonacic, on page number 31, I offer

                 the following amendments to Calendar Number

                 686, Senate Print Number 3905, and ask that

                 said bill retain its place on Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and the bill will

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            SENATOR McGEE:  Thank you Mr.

                 President.





                                                          2893



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank

                 you, Senator McGee.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could take

                 up the non-controversial calendar, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the non-controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 286, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2271-A,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

                 to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 37.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 396, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 972, an

                 act to amend the Correction Law and the





                                                          2894



                 Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 21st day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 36, nays 1.

                 Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Excuse me. Also

                 Senate Schneiderman.  Ayes 35, nays 2.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 574, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1512, an

                 act to amend the Correction Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.





                                                          2895



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 37.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 578, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3776-A,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR SMITH:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 639, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4201, an

                 act to amend the Transportation Law and

                 Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 37.





                                                          2896



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 748, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3790, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 37.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 787, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1847-A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to making maintenance contracts.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          2897



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 37.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 788, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2420-A,

                 an act to authorize payment of transportation

                 aid.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.  Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 38.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 791, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3928,

                 an act in relation to validating the

                 establishment of certain requirement funds.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          2898



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 38.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 793, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4390, an

                 act to authorize payment of -

                            SENATOR RATH:    Lay the bill aside

                 for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 804, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2662, an

                 act to amend the Civil Service Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          2899



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 38.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 833, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4379, an

                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 858, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5064, an

                 act in relation to adjusting certain state aid

                 payments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          2900



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 861, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4507, an

                 act to amend the State Administrative

                 Procedure Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 October.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 41.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 886, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2039, an

                 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

                 designating.





                                                          2901



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 41.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 900, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1526, an

                 act to amend the County Law, in relation to

                 permitting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 42.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          2902



                 905, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3925, an

                 act to legalize, validate and confirm the

                 establishment of a water district.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 42.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 923, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1593, an

                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene, Law the

                 Correction Law and the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the





                                                          2903



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 984, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 974, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 42.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1038, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5571, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 the apportionment for pupil transportation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.  Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3. This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.





                                                          2904



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 42.  Excuse

                 me. Ayes 41, nays 1.

                            Senator Hevesi recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1056, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2043-B,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the practice.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the non-controversial calendar.





                                                          2905



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up Calendar Number 923 by

                 Senator Volker at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read Calender 923.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 923, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1593, an

                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, the

                 Correction Law and the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 923.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

                 this is a bill that essentially is the same

                 bill as last year that relates to civil

                 commitment of sexually violent predators.  One

                 thing I would quickly point out, when the bill

                 was initially submitted to this house several

                 years ago and I had the original bill which

                 was patterned after a court case that was

                 involved a civil commitment statute out of the

                 west, it frankly did not have as much of what

                 I call complication as this, but it is

                 complicated because what the Governor's people





                                                          2906



                 did was to do something that we had talked

                 about doing and that was to change the way in

                 which the system worked and frankly made it, I

                 think, more fair and although it is somewhat

                 more complicated it sets up a process by which

                 a person who is either civilly committed under

                 the Mental Hygiene Law or in prison, the

                 process by which that person is adjudged

                 whether he or she would be a problem for

                 society is in effect what it is and a

                 determination made as to whether that person

                 should be either detained in a criminal

                 setting or in a mental hygiene setting, and

                 the bill provides that that person must be

                 separate from the ordinary people as the

                 saying goes who are either in the prison

                 setting or in the mental health setting.

                            So it provides by the way, let me

                 make clear that eventually a jury trial at

                 which time the person must be adjudged beyond

                 a reasonable doubt to in effect be a danger to

                 society and to be a sexually violent predator

                 who is not in a position to be released back

                 out to society.

                            Let me just say in all candor





                                                          2907



                 probably the way this process is set up there

                 seems to be some thought that there would be a

                 lot of people who would probably be involved

                 in this.  The likelihood is that there would

                 be a limited number of people who would

                 eventually go through this process.  And

                 because there are various levels that are set

                 up where determinations can be made whether to

                 proceed or not.  So I think that probably the

                 numbers of people who would be actually

                 adjudged under this system would be more

                 limited, I think, than some people think.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, will Senator Volker yield just for

                 a couple quick questions?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Sure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    This is the

                 same bill we did last year?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Essentially the





                                                          2908



                 same bill.  There is a few changes but they

                 are virtually all programmatic and drafting

                 improvements, but they are virtually the same

                 bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Volker

                 will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Sure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    How does the

                 civil confinement under this bill end?  Could

                 you briefly describe for me the process by

                 which, and I know we debated this last year,

                 we debated it before, but go through the civil

                 commitment.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    What do you mean

                 by end?  The person is adjudged to be a

                 sexually violent predator after a jury trial

                 the person is then committed.  That person

                 must be reviewed.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Serves that

                 criminal time and are now at a point where





                                                          2909



                 they are out, the are eligible for release

                 from criminal confinement.  Then as I

                 understand it, there is a separate

                 determination, a jury determination that they

                 have served their criminal sentence, they

                 still however are a dangerous predator and

                 therefore beyond a reasonable doubt a jury

                 concludes that they will be confined.

                            My question is, is there a point, I

                 mean it is obviously not a confinement for

                 life.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Right.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    It is a

                 confinement subject to at some point either

                 the defendant slash civil confinee can file a

                 petition or someone can file a petition on

                 their behalf to ask that that designation be

                 removed.  I'm just interested in how that

                 process works.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    They can file a

                 petition but actually the way the legislation

                 reads they must be reviewed every year.

                 Annually they must be reviewed and evaluated

                 by a psychiatric examiner to determine whether

                 that person is, I don't want to say, cured but





                                                          2910



                 is -- that person's stability is enough that

                 he or she could be released back to society.

                 And by the way, as part of that there can be a

                 -- a person can ask for a psychiatric

                 evaluation he or she self and if the review

                 finds that the person is or has got to a point

                 where it is determined that he or she would

                 not be a threat to society then they can

                 authorize a petition to discharge that person

                 from commitment.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again through

                 you, Mr. President, if Senator Volker will

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Sure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    My question

                 is, when that petition is filed to and the

                 civil confinement, is there then a trial under

                 which the same burden of proof is used, or who

                 has the burden of proof to end the civil

                 confinement?

                            You are obviously civilly confined





                                                          2911



                 on the basis of a finding of beyond a

                 reasonable doubt that you continue to be a

                 predator. What are the tests for then

                 subsequently releasing?  Does the petitioner

                 have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that

                 he is no longer a predator?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    No, the

                 petitioner -- the attorney general, according

                 to the process, must once again prove beyond a

                 reasonable doubt, and by the way, of course if

                 the attorney general agrees with the

                 psychiatrist then that person they can just

                 adopt it, that petition can be accepted and

                 the person obviously can be released.  But if

                 there are objections to it then once again the

                 attorney general has to prove beyond a

                 reasonable doubt that that person is not

                 capable of managing in society and in fact

                 would be a danger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Volker.

                            I voted for this bill in the past.

                 I just wanted to go through again that portion

                 of it which I think was a source of concern

                 for myself and others, and that is for those





                                                          2912



                 of us who agree that even after criminal

                 confinement ends, after the sentence has been

                 served and someone has paid their debt to

                 society, do they exhibit those psychological

                 characteristics which allow us to determine or

                 to make some judgment about their propensity

                 to continue to be a predator.  And I am

                 satisfied that beyond a reasonable doubt

                 status, the requirement to prove beyond a

                 reasonable doubt, gives the defendant who has

                 now paid his debt, it gives him the protection

                 that the government will have to show by

                 overwhelming if not conclusive evidence that

                 he continues to be a problem, he or she.  And

                 then the issue of whether, at what point that

                 ends.  At some point, if we belive in

                 rehabilitation we do believe that this can

                 change.  And it seems to me that the procedure

                 outlined by Senator Volker creates a

                 reasonable possibility that someone, if they

                 do achieve rehabilitation, will be allowed to

                 be freed and their confinement will not

                 continue for an unreasonable period of time

                 after they achieve that goal.

                            I would just urge that if this bill





                                                          2913



                 does get to conference or does become the

                 negotiation, the source of negotiation with

                 the Assembly that everybody continue to look

                 at that provision.  I know that the Kansas

                 statute, which was upheld by the Supreme

                 Court, did give us the power in those, and I

                 agree with Senator Volker, I believe these

                 will be somewhat limited circumstance.  But I

                 believe that we really should be vigilant to

                 make sure that the post confinement remedy to

                 be able to be freed if you demonstrate as best

                 as we can given the limitations of psychology

                 and psychology and everything else, once we -

                 once the experts are satisfied that

                 rehabilitation has taken place to a point

                 where a person can be free, that they have not

                 only paid their debt to society bu that they

                 had been rehabilitated, that we accelerate and

                 we give them as quick and as easy a path so

                 that they can reenter the general population.

                            I would note that that probably

                 does not come with any guarantees or any

                 absolute risk free, but I certainly think that

                 it will give us the opportunity to insure that

                 our system is fair, that due process is served





                                                          2914



                 and at the same time that we eliminate

                 dangerous predators for whom rehabilitation

                 has not occurred from our streets.

                            So I voted in favor of this in the

                 past.  I am going to vote for it again today.

                 I do so with some cautions, but I think the

                 bill addresses many of those, and my hope is

                 that if we get this to committee we can grind

                 out all those details and come up with a bill

                 that does the job, protects our neighborhoods

                 and is fair to the accused.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Senator, let me

                 just say to you that we debated this bill I

                 believe, you and I debated it and Senator

                 Leichter and a number of others here when the

                 statute first was drafted and my counsel at

                 the time is now counsel to DCJS, Ken Connolly,

                 actually drafted the original bill.

                            It was one of our concerns too as

                 to how you, the so-called end game.  In other

                 words, what happens after a person is in.  And

                 we drafted, we did put language in it to try

                 to provide a process, but this bill, the





                                                          2915



                 Governor's people had worked long and hard, I

                 think, to improve that section as to what

                 happens afterwards.  And this bill, which is

                 basically the same as last year, one of the

                 major changes I think was that they did

                 improve the section post the time that a

                 person is found initially to be kept in as a

                 sexually violent predator to what happens

                 after that and they set up this process, a

                 much more inclusive process after that

                 happens, so I think it was a concern to us and

                 I think it was a concern obviously to the

                 Governor and to everyone as to what would

                 happen and to make sure that there was a

                 review after that because you don't want to

                 have the situations that apparently occurred

                 in the Mental Hygiene Department years ago

                 where you had people who were determined to be

                 incompetent or whatever and stayed in and

                 disappeared and frankly got lost.  And now

                 there is -- but in this bill there is a

                 provision, even if nobody brings any petitions

                 automatically they must be reevaluated at

                 least annually and then the process is set up

                 in this bill as to how that person would be





                                                          2916



                 determined as to whether they should stay in

                 or whether they should be released or not.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    I would like

                 to compliment Senator Volker on taking the

                 initiative to bring this bill to the floor

                 today.  Senator Volker has worked on this many

                 years and Governor Pataki has embraced the

                 concept of sex offender action.  He deals with

                 the issue of sexual predators in a very

                 different way than was dealt with in years

                 past and with his leadership and Senator

                 Volker's we have this excellent bill on the

                 floor today and I am very happy to have my

                 name on it as a co-sponsor.

                            Some members of this chamber will

                 remember that this was an issue that I worked

                 on more than ten years ago.  And at that time

                 it was very difficult to get people to discuss

                 the issue in a forthright manner.  It makes

                 everyone squeamish.  Quite frankly, it is hard

                 to have people talk about the details of

                 incarceration much less the actual science of

                 treatment for predicate sex offenders.  I





                                                          2917



                 learned this when I worked with a small task

                 force and a director of Criminal Justice

                 Services in this State and conducted a

                 nationwide survey of programs for sex

                 offenders which were designed to treat them

                 while incarcerated and turning them loose to

                 society as somewhat less of a risk than if

                 they were merely warehoused in the prison

                 system.  And at the same time we studied, at

                 that time only a couple of states had a bill

                 requiring civil commitment for sex offenders.

                 The two states that were in the forefront of

                 this are Washington State and Kansas.  Of the

                 two it was Kansas that had its statute go to

                 the Supreme Court first and it was upheld.

                            Based on the fact that the Supreme

                 Court has ruled that we are able as a state to

                 make the determination that some sex offenders

                 are such a risk to society upon completion of

                 their sentence it behooves us, it compels us

                 to pass into law, this particular measure, so

                 that we have the ability to protect the

                 citizens of this State.

                            Let me just give one analogy that I

                 think has troubled me throughout the years





                                                          2918



                 when I have discussed this subject.  Here in

                 government in virtually any other policy area

                 we have references to avoided cost.  The

                 avoided cost of solid waste by using a

                 recycling concept and using recycling even

                 when mandated justifies government actions

                 because the taxpayers will benefit.

                            We have all kinds of ways where we

                 attempt in social services, through the finger

                 imaging to reduce the cost to government by

                 doing something with our authority as

                 legislators.  But when it comes to avoided

                 victimization we have been way too timid.

                            What we will do with this measure

                 is avoid the crime of rape for thousands of

                 women and children in this state and we'll

                 probably also avoid murders.  It is difficult

                 to calculate, but I tried in the late eighties

                 to actually put some numbers together, and

                 when you sit around in a room full of sex

                 offenders in a prison and ask them to write

                 quietly on a little piece of paper that no one

                 else sees, the actual number of their victims

                 it is startling to discover afterwards that

                 the number may go into several dozen.  In some





                                                          2919



                 cases it could come close to a hundred.  It

                 always exceeds the number of victims for which

                 an individual sex offender was actually

                 sentenced.

                            There are many, many sexual

                 offenses that are never punished.  There are

                 many that are never reported, and there are

                 some for which the sentence is way too small

                 because the simple concept of forcing a child

                 or even adult victim to testify and relive the

                 agony of that experience is so horrendous that

                 frequently in the interest of fairness to the

                 victim the charges are reduced, some kind of a

                 plea bargain occurs and a serious rapist or

                 child molester is sentenced to much less time

                 than would happen if the crime had been a

                 burglary or any other felony.

                            So what we have had is a system

                 where sex offenders tend to be the ones who

                 can cycle in and out of the prison system or

                 never experience the prison system at all

                 until their victim populations goes way up.

                            We need a two pronged approach in

                 this State.  We must be much more aggressive

                 about the treatment of sex offenders at the





                                                          2920



                 early stages of their offense.  Many of them

                 can learn to identify with their behavior in

                 such a way that they will control it.  We do

                 not use the word rehabilitate when we talk

                 about sex offender treatment.  It is much too

                 soft and mushy and it is the "L" word that I

                 think we would want to avoid.  And it really

                 does not matter how it is you get them to

                 change their behavior.  If it is for their own

                 zone self-interest that they change it, that

                 is good enough for us, because we must get

                 them to change their behavior, keep them

                 supervised upon release to be closely

                 monitored, and if they are not able to change

                 their behavior and they are violent sex

                 offenders, they should remain incarcerated.

                            We can have them, under civil

                 commitment, reviewed annually while they can

                 continue the treatments.  And I was amazed

                 when I conducted the study in the late

                 eighties and the early nineties at the wide

                 range of treatment options that are out there.

                 Some of them, the one that we use in New York

                 State now, are largely traditional;

                 psychoanalysis and a much more basic concept





                                                          2921



                 of education and analysis of the root causes.

                            When you get out to the west coast

                 and in a few other states, they actually have

                 programs that involve use of chemicals,

                 treatment involving electric shock, a number

                 of things that are designed to stimulate a

                 different type of urge or reduce the urges

                 that these sex offenders suffer from.

                            As this science changes, as it

                 expands, we need to be aggressive in

                 identifying what will work and we need to try

                 it in this state.  In the meantime we need to

                 insure that those violent sexual predators

                 that have preyed on the women and children of

                 this state remain incarcerated under a civil

                 commitment statute for as long as is

                 reasonably appropriate and that they should

                 continue to receive all available treatment in

                 a hope that their behavior can be controlled

                 upon release.

                            The other part of this whole issue

                 is what happens with parole.  And I worked

                 with a previous parole commissioner, Raoul

                 Russi, some years ago, to arrange for a

                 dedicated sex offender case load and





                                                          2922



                 specialized training for parole officers.  I

                 have since met with some of the parole

                 officers and their supervisors and they tell

                 me now that with the training they have

                 received and with the ability to supervise a

                 smaller number of parolees that they are

                 better able to anticipate the recidivism signs

                 of a sex offender who was paroled.  They know

                 now that there are certain things that an

                 individual will do when he or he is beginning

                 down that downward spiral and is looked to

                 molest a young child or commit the crime of

                 rape.  And with the training of our parole

                 officers we have also made New York State a

                 somewhat safer place, but it is only a

                 beginning and we must do more of that as well.

                            So again, my compliments to Senator

                 Volker for his long leadership in this area.

                 My thanks to the Governor for making it one of

                 his priorities, and I ask all of my colleagues

                 to make us proud of what New York State is

                 doing in this area and make this a unanimous

                 vote today.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          2923



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 52, nays 1.

                 Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 578, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3776-A,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

                 to eligibility for counseling.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar Number 578, by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            The measure before us is introduced

                 at the request of the State Crime Victim's





                                                          2924



                 Board and amends the law to add to the list of

                 those able to receive compensation from the

                 Crime Victim's Board the spouse or child or

                 step-child of a victim of a crime who has

                 sustained physical injury.

                            Particularly the area of those

                 crimes where sex offenses were the nature,

                 those who are very closely connected to the

                 victim may have the need for counseling and

                 other service that the Crime Victims Board can

                 authorize and pay for.

                            The attorney general stated that

                 under current law only a sex offense victim

                 who had suffered traumatic shock is eligible

                 to be reimbursement for the cost of counseling

                 services.  And obviously, Mr. President, my

                 colleagues, because of the nature of these

                 crimes the trauma that could perpetrate to not

                 just the direct victim but the indirect

                 victim, scarred none the less by the crime.

                 Certainly to open up this process to those

                 closely connected to the victim would make

                 sense and justice.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator





                                                          2925



                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor yield to a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Under this legislation, if my

                 domestic partner were to be murdered would I

                 be eligible to receive counseling?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    There is no

                 impact on the present law.  This does not

                 change the scope under present law and it is

                 my understanding that present law may be

                 applicable under the circumstances you site.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm sorry, Mr.

                 President, I didn't catch the last sentence of

                 the sponsor's response.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    It is my

                 understanding, Mr. President, that the

                 situation described by Senate Duane, that

                 requesting -- Senator Duane's question can be

                 answered in Article 22 of the Executive Law,





                                                          2926



                 Section 624 "1" sub "i".  That a surviving

                 spouse of a crime victim who died would be

                 listed.  But it is my understanding those

                 sections may -- I reference those sections of

                 law for Senator Duane to see if the

                 theoretical example which he asked for

                 complies under that section.

                            It would be up to Senator Duane's

                 interpretation, not mine.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor yield to another question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm not sure what

                 you are talking about.  I mean, I would like

                 it that every law was open to my

                 interpretation, but tragically the State

                 doesn't operate that way yet.

                            As I read it, it explicitly says

                 that that is not the case.  If you look at the

                 way the law originally was in section

                 whatever, line 11, it is number "1c", "Any





                                                          2927



                 other person dependent for his principal

                 support upon a victim of a crime who died as a

                 direct result of such crime."  However in this

                 legislation it does not say that.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Senator Duane,

                 Mr. President, if I may, the eligibility for

                 those who could receive compensation from the

                 Crime Victim's Board is listed in Article 22

                 of the Executive Law, Section 624.

                            I dare say if Senator Duane wishes

                 to see who is eligible and who is not he only

                 needs to refer to that section of the statute.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, if

                 I may continue, through you.

                            If that is the case then can we

                 amend the bill so as to actually reference

                 that section of the law in the bill because I

                 am afraid that while we may be discussing it

                 in that way now that in the future our

                 discussion on this matter is not something

                 that is legally going to be referenced either

                 by the board, or if it were to go to courts,

                 by a court of law.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    This measure

                 before us expands the eligibility of those who





                                                          2928



                 are entitled to receive compensation under the

                 Crime Victim's Board procedures.  That entire

                 eligibility section is in Article 22 of the

                 Executive Law, Section 624.  If Senator Duane

                 or any other Senator has a question regarding

                 who is eligible or who is not, I refer them to

                 Article 22, Section 624 of the Executive Law,

                 which lists the eligibility of those who could

                 receive compensation from the Crime Victim's

                 Board.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I one hundred

                 percent agree that that is part of the old

                 law, but the new language in this law, "J",

                 says, "A spouse, child or step-child of a

                 victim of a crime."  It is a very specific.

                 It is not as unspecific as is, for instance,

                 the section that already exists that says any

                 other person dependent for his principal

                 support, which would be a domestic object

                 partner.  But this does include those

                 categories of persons who would be entitled to

                 the counseling.  In fact, by its omission in





                                                          2929



                 the phrase, "A spouse, child or step-child,"

                 indeed they would be precluded from getting

                 counseling, or I would be precluded from

                 getting counseling if my domestic partner were

                 murdered.  And I'm not sure that that of

                 course was the intention, but it does seem to

                 be that's the way the bill is written and I

                 would request that maybe we could go and

                 clarify that language so that in such a tragic

                 circumstance I would be able to receive

                 counseling upon the death through crime of my

                 domestic partner.

                            I think I was making a request, if

                 we go back and do that with this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Just to

                 clarify what we are doing here, are you asking

                 the sponsor a question, Senator Duane?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield to the question that

                 has been put to you.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 as you know, I would be happy to yield to any

                 member of this august body.  If Senator Duane





                                                          2930



                 has a question I would be glad to be

                 responsive to it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, the sponsor has indicated he would be

                 willing to yield for a question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

                 perhaps you could guide me.  I believe I asked

                 a question and I was wondering if you could

                 rule whether or not it is a question.  It

                 feels like a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, why don't we -- we try to deal in a

                 little more than feelings.  Lets see if we can

                 get this done.

                            Senator Duane, the sponsor has

                 indicated that he would yield to a question.

                 Would you like to restate your question?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I was wondering

                 if the sponsor would perhaps lay aside the

                 bill just so that we could clarify this and

                 revisit it with a clarification on the issue

                 which we have been discussing today regarding

                 domestic partners being able to get counseling

                 when their partner has been murdered through a

                 crime.





                                                          2931



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 in response to Senator Duane's question, it is

                 my belief that this measure before us today is

                 explicit, clear, direct in trying to care for

                 those victims of crime.  That if Senator Duane

                 has an amendment, has a modification or other

                 appropriate additions to this statute, I

                 recommended to Senator Duane to follow the

                 procedures of this house and present those

                 amendments.

                            This bill stands.  It does a good

                 job in expanding help to those who need it

                 under the crime victims compensation statute

                 and the bill is properly before this house.  I

                 ask for it to be considered.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, if

                 the sponsor will yield to another question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The





                                                          2932



                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I one hundred

                 percent agree that the intent of this

                 legislation is wonderful and I wholeheartedly

                 agree with it.  What I am concerned about is,

                 you know, because the concept of domestic

                 partners is a relatively new one, I don't ever

                 really expect that it is a matter upper most

                 on anyone's minds unless perhaps they happen

                 to have a domestic partner.

                            So I'm not in any way trying to say

                 anything negative about this legislation.  I

                 think it is excellent legislation.  I am

                 trying to make sure as best as I can that it

                 explicitly includes all of the categories of

                 people that I very much believe was the intent

                 of the legislation.

                            And in that the language in the

                 bill, in the original law that has not been

                 amended is actually more inclusive, I was

                 hoping that because there is still time to do

                 so that we could make it in fact and indeed be

                 as inclusive as I do believe it was intended

                 and meant to be.  And I was wondering if the

                 -- and I, you know, I certainly take





                                                          2933



                 responsibility for not having had flagged this

                 earlier on.  You might find this hard to

                 believe because I have been gay now longer

                 than I have not been gay in my life and I'm

                 pretty used to it, but even for someone like

                 me, it is not always the first thing I think

                 about.  It may have something to do with, you

                 know, I live in the general society and so I

                 don't always think of these things that don't

                 include issues that are important to me, and

                 sadly this happens to be one of the cases

                 where it didn't really occur to me until I -

                 because the way I originally looked at the

                 language that included the board it did seem

                 to include everyone, but when I took a closer

                 look at this this morning before coming onto

                 the floor I did think that there was an

                 omission.

                            I am not trying to do this as some

                 kind of surprise attack.  It truly did not

                 occur to me that I would not be included in

                 this if my domestic partner should be the

                 victim of a violent crime.

                            So I apologize for not having had

                 thought of its sooner, but in that it did





                                                          2934



                 occur to me I was hoping that we could go back

                 and clarify it in a manner that was acceptable

                 to the sponsor and that would, you know, take

                 into account my concerns as well.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 would Senator Duane repeat the question?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I basically was

                 apologizing for not having noticed what I feel

                 is an exclusion of what could be my personal

                 circumstances or circumstances of other people

                 around the state prior to this.  But in that I

                 did flag it this morning I was wondering if

                 the sponsor would consider just holding back

                 momentarily on the legislation so that we

                 could clarify the language to include those

                 New Yorkers, including myself, who I feel are

                 at risk of being excluded by this legislation

                 for absolutely terrific provision of

                 counseling which I support wholeheartedly.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I believe the

                 bill is properly before this house.  It

                 addresses a need that needs to be addressed





                                                          2935



                 and that certain modifications to this measure

                 are always inopportune.  That Senator Duane or

                 any other Senator could present additional

                 amendments to the statute at any time, but

                 frankly I belive we should move on with this

                 measure and that should Senator Duane or other

                 Senators wish to modify it at a future time,

                 that certainly is their prerogative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, on

                 the bill then.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I plan on voting

                 for this because I don't want to hold up the

                 ability of other spouses and close family

                 members to receive counseling after a

                 traumatic effect, but I would request of my

                 colleagues that we revisit this and the

                 sponsor as well, in the most collegial way so

                 as to modify the language perhaps in a way

                 that would make it as inclusive as for

                 instance Brochi and other cases have shown.

                            I am concerned, just generally, in





                                                          2936



                 that as many of you know, domestic partners

                 are not covered in this body, are not able to

                 get health benefits for instance as is every

                 other domestic partner of a state employee

                 every where in state government and even in

                 quasi government bodies, the Metropolitan

                 Transportation Authority, etc, have all

                 provided domestic partnership.  We don't have

                 it here for members or employees of the state

                 Senate, and I think that it is important for

                 us to remedy that situation so that all New

                 Yorkers are treated equally.

                            As you know, I believe very

                 strongly that it is discrimination for those

                 who are not able to be married, therefore do

                 not get the same level of benefits as those

                 who are able to be married.  That is what the

                 discrimination is, even in so far as it goes

                 to the issue of equal pay for equal work, if I

                 got married tomorrow my spouse would

                 immediately be entitled to get health

                 benefits, but -- and therefore would be being

                 compensated at a higher rate.  That means

                 because I can't cover my domestic partner I am

                 actually being compensated at a lower rate and





                                                          2937



                 that is not fair.

                            Benefits are something you get as a

                 benefit of being employed or being elected a

                 State Senator, not something that you get as a

                 benefit of being married.  The benefit is tied

                 to the profession, not to whether you are

                 married or not, and it is unfair.  And it

                 seems to me that, as is the case in this, that

                 while if I got married tomorrow and my spouse

                 were murdered I would be entitled to get

                 counseling because of that terrible tragedy,

                 but because I would have a domestic partner

                 and if he were to be murdered tomorrow I would

                 not entitled to get the counseling and that is

                 just not right, that is just not fair.  And

                 that is what my objection is.

                            So again, Mr. President, I plan on

                 voting in the affirmative on this, but I am

                 hoping that we could come back soon, very

                 soon, and revisit this to make it so that

                 every New Yorker, every Senator, every staff

                 member is treated equally under the laws of

                 the State of New York.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator





                                                          2938



                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    I rise briefly

                 to concur with the sentiments of Senator

                 Duane.  The lack of domestic partnership in

                 this legislation is, in my opinion, a glaring

                 omission.  As it is a glaring omission in

                 other facets of the law in New York State.

                            This is a good piece of

                 legislation.  Inclusion of that provision,

                 that protection, that service to other

                 individuals who deserve it as much as any

                 other crime victims would make this a much

                 better piece of legislation.  I support it but

                 would like to draw attention to this issue

                 hopefully raise the awareness of this

                 institution of the feeling that this is

                 necessary at this point to address issues

                 which have not been addressed such as Senator

                 Duane brings to our attention.

                            Domestic partners deserve the same

                 rights and privileges and services that are





                                                          2939



                 offered to other individuals, and until such

                 time as we recognize that we will have failed

                 in effectuating policy which serves all New

                 Yorkers.

                            I vote in favor of this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Balboni, that concludes the

                 reading of controversial calendar.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Is there any

                 housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.  I'm sorry, Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    We are

                 frequently confused.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Not

                 really, but go ahead.





                                                          2940



                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Mr. President,

                 on page 37, I offer the following amendments

                 to Calendar 775.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President, certainly on a lighter note

                 than the legislation that was discussed and

                 voted on, I rise to discuss what I think will

                 go down as one of the greatest days in the

                 State's history, that is May 12th, 1959.  And

                 on every Tuesday we pass resolutions

                 recognizing individual accomplishments in this

                 house, but I want to recognize an individual

                 in this chamber who was born on that day.  And

                 many of you under estimate his wit, his humor,

                 his good looks, his intellect and his charm.

                 And my next statement may cause a debate in

                 this house.  I know Senator Schneiderman has

                 jumped to his feet out of his chair, but I

                 believe in the last 40 years he has grown to

                 be a legend in his own mind, and that is none





                                                          2941



                 other than the great Senator, geographically

                 from my district, from the north, Senator

                 Balboni.

                            Now, I see a hand being raised on

                 the other side of the aisle.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Would the

                 gentleman yield to a question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, will you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Can you

                 explain to me the Senate rules if I say no on

                 that question that Senator Schneiderman has

                 asked?

                            Mr. President, it would be an honor

                 for me to yield to a question from one of my

                 colleagues.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Mr.

                 President, I would like to ask the gentleman

                 if he has any back-up documentation to support

                 his contention here.  Because we have obtained

                 documentary that in fact Senator Balboni is





                                                          2942



                 43, and has been concealing his age for quite

                 sometime and the file also reveals the draft

                 speech nominating Senator Skelos as Nassau

                 County Executive.

                            We'll make a full disclosure of

                 this at a later date, but I would just like to

                 see if Senator Fuschillo has, in fact,

                 ascertains the actual date of birth of the

                 gentleman at issue.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I think my

                 colleague to the left said it best, the usual

                 flaw and over reaction from the other side of

                 the aisle.  I had spoken with the

                 distinguished Senator's mom last night and

                 asked for some documentation.  She offered

                 video tapes.  I said no thanks.  But that

                 documentation will be forthcoming.  I would be

                 happy to provide it to my colleagues.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I

                 appreciate that.  Although the Senator's mom

                 is a good source I have in fact spoken to

                 Norman Adler and I think I will be glad to

                 produce the real documentation at a later

                 date.

                            Thank you, Mr. President. I allow





                                                          2943



                 the gentleman to proceed.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No further

                 comments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Will Senator

                 Fuschillo yeld to one more question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, will you yield to a question from

                 Senator Stachowski?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I would be

                 happy to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    He would

                 be happy to, but he doesn't mean it.  Go

                 ahead.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    When you

                 were talking about Senator Balboni's growth,

                 were you speaking about his girth or his

                 accomplishments?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I just want

                 to thank my colleagues for allowing me to rise

                 on this occasion and I wish my colleague a

                 wonderful day and happy birthday.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni.





                                                          2944



                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Two comments,

                 Mr. President. The first is, you think I talk

                 a lot?  Fuschillo, what has gotten into you?

                 And the second is, I am reminded of Macbeth's

                 quote, "Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow

                 creeps at this petty pace."  Except it has

                 been a wonderful pace.  Thank you for your

                 kind wishes.

                            Having no other business to come

                 before the Senate today I move that we adjourn

                 until Monday, May 17th at 3:00 p.m.,

                 intervening days being legislative days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, happy birthday.  And on motion the

                 Senate stands adjourned until Monday, at 3:00

                 p.m., intervening days being legislative days.

                            (Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m. the

                 Senate adjourned.)