Regular Session - May 25, 1999

                                                              3263





                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                                   THE

                            STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               May 25, 1999

                                 3:09 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary















                                                          3264



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The invocation

                 today will be given by the Reverend Peter G.

                 Young of Blessed Sacrament Church in Bolton

                 Landing.

                            REVEREND YOUNG:    Let us pray.

                            Dear God, we gather today to

                 discuss our concerns as citizens.  We are

                 mindful that many in our world do not enjoy

                 such freedom.  Grant us the wisdom to conduct

                 our legislation with dignity and sensitivity.

                            May these Senate deliberations

                 enrich the lives of our New York State

                 citizens, and may we pray today for this newly

                 elected Senator who will tomorrow become our

                 colleague.

                            We ask You this now and forever.

                 Amen.







                                                          3265



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Monday, May 24th, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Friday, May 21st,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            On behalf of myself, on page 59 I

                 offer the following amendments to Calendar

                 Number 223, Senate Print Number 2094, and ask

                 that said bill retain its place on the Third







                                                          3266



                 Reading Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 received, and the bill will retain its place

                 on Third Reading Calendar, Senator Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 I also wish to call up my bill, Senate Print

                 2101A, recalled from the Assembly, which is

                 now at the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 224, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2101A, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 I offer up the following amendments.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 received.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,







                                                          3267



                 on behalf of Senator Bonacic, on page 12 I

                 offer the following amendments to Calendar

                 Number 338, Senate Print Number 3892, and ask

                 that said bill retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 received, and the bill will retain its place

                 on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 at this time could we adopt the Resolution

                 Calendar, with the exception of Resolutions

                 1529 and 1557.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    All in favor of

                 adopting the Resolution Calendar, with the

                 exception of Resolutions 1529 and 1557,

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Resolution

                 Calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 at this time if we could have the title read







                                                          3268



                 on Resolution 1529, by Senator Seward, and

                 move for its immediate adoption.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Seward, Legislative Resolution Number 1529,

                 Commemorating the 30th Anniversary of Herkimer

                 Area Resource Center, on Thursday, May 27,

                 1999.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the

                 resolution.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

                 adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 may we please have the title read on

                 Resolution 1557, by Senator Marcellino, and

                 move for its immediate adoption.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator







                                                          3269



                 Marcellino, Legislative Resolution Number

                 1557, urging the New York State Congressional

                 Delegation to effectuate a repeal of the

                 oxygenate mandate for reformulated gasoline.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

                 President, this resolution is very

                 significant.  The other house will be taking

                 it up probably tomorrow or the day after,

                 whenever they can, as immediately as possible,

                 because it is imperative that we remove the

                 substance MTBE from our gasoline.

                            It was put into the gasoline by the

                 EPA as a means of cleaning up our downstate

                 air.  The trade-off, however, seems to be that

                 the product has an affinity for water, and it

                 seeps its way into the groundwater.  And it's

                 been found in various wells and water supplies

                 throughout the state and throughout the

                 Northeast region.

                            Other states have taken the road of







                                                          3270



                 a ban on the substance in the states.  We feel

                 here that it would be better, in light of

                 recent scientific evidence that the MTBE

                 additive has really no effect on the pollution

                 emissions of cars, mainly due to the fact that

                 the cars are much better made today and the

                 emissions controls on them are much more

                 significant and much more capable of doing the

                 job, we feel it's time that the EPA remove

                 this requirement and remove the threat to our

                 water supply.  That's what this resolution is

                 all about, and it's extremely significant.

                            Madam President, I offer this

                 resolution up to anyone for cosponsorship.

                 And I would ask if anyone wishes not to be on

                 it, that they -- with the approval of the

                 Chair, that they notify the desk, if that's

                 okay.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

                 Senator Marcellino wishes to open his

                 resolution for sponsorship.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Any person who

                 would like to go on the resolution or -- are

                 you all right with putting everybody on it?

                            Why don't we do this.  Why don't we







                                                          3271



                 put everybody on the resolution, and then

                 anybody who wishes not to cosponsor the

                 resolution, they should indicate to the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Anyone who does

                 not wish to be a cosponsor of the resolution

                 should notify the desk.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            The question is on the resolution.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

                 adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could now

                 take up the noncontroversial calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 248, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 3162C, an

                 act to amend Chapter 271 of the laws of 1994.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This







                                                          3272



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 354, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 1718, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law and the

                 Education Law, in relation to prohibiting the

                 dispensing of controlled substances.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 48.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 527, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3817, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

                 to the presiding judge in juvenile delinquency







                                                          3273



                 proceedings.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 530, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3985A, an

                 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

                 relation to orders of protection.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          3274



                 657, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 968, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 policy coverage for persons with cancer.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 bill shall take effect on the 180th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 731, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 676A, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 assaults committed in the presence of certain

                 children.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside, Senator Paterson.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 780, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3265A,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 extending the additional 1 percent sales tax.







                                                          3275



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.  Nays,

                 2.  Senators Dollinger and Gentile recorded in

                 the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 842, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2463C, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to enacting the Motor Vehicle

                 Renter's Responsibility and Protection Act.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 988, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3427A, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to an order reducing or dismissing an

                 indictment.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last







                                                          3276



                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1019, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4040,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to permitting the State

                 Liquor Authority.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1044, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4703, an







                                                          3277



                 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

                 making certain technical corrections.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1045, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4704, an

                 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

                 conforming the personal loan limitations

                 imposed on foreign banks.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.







                                                          3278



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1047, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1273, an

                 act to amend the New York State Urban

                 Development Corporation Act and others, in

                 relation to food processor economic

                 development assistance.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1048, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3663,

                 an act to amend Chapter 915 of the laws of

                 1982.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          3279



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1053, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4850,

                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to indemnification.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside, Senator.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 could we take up the controversial calendar

                 now.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    That completes

                 the reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 731, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 676A, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 assaults.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.







                                                          3280



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, would Senator Rath give us a brief

                 explanation on this bill?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath, an

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            This proposal makes it a Class D

                 felony to commit an assault in the third

                 degree in the presence of certain minor

                 children.  And it also enhances the penalty

                 for a person who commits an assault on the

                 same victim more than once.

                            The intent of the bill,

                 particularly in relation to the minor children

                 witnessing the acts of domestic violence, were

                 to illustrate the fact that not only is one

                 person hurt, but many people, for the future,

                 may be hurt.  Not only the victim, but the

                 child who is witnessing the act of domestic

                 violence, and then the very strong possibility

                 that that child will go on to become a

                 perpetrator of domestic violence themselves.

                            The facts and figures and all the

                 information, the best information we have,

                 shows us that young children who live in homes







                                                          3281



                 where domestic violence is the way of life go

                 on to become perpetrators of domestic violence

                 themselves.  And so this is meant to act as a

                 deterrent.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If Senator Rath would yield

                 for a question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath,

                 would you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Sure.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Paterson, with a question.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    First of all,

                 Madam President, I'd like to assure Senator

                 Rath that I think this is an excellent bill,

                 and I'm very proud to vote for it.

                            I think it's very creative in the

                 sense that the effects on younger people of

                 witnessing this violence have not fully been

                 documented, but we can at least be aware of

                 the inclination of those who have witnessed

                 this type of victimization actually becoming a

                 part of it later in life, which is a tragic

                 reaction that some people have to witnessing







                                                          3282



                 these types of events.

                            The question that I have is really

                 just for the protection of those who might be

                 assaulted and might be acting in a

                 self-defense manner.  Is there a provision in

                 the legislation for the primary perpetrator as

                 opposed to one responding to the initiation of

                 violence?

                            And particularly, the reason I ask

                 the question is that so many times women were

                 actually in the process of being victimized

                 and by the time law enforcement arrived, they

                 may have undertaken actions to protect

                 themselves and then wound up getting arrested

                 along with the original perpetrator.

                            So I just wanted to make sure or

                 have Senator Rath's point of view about the

                 whole possibility of the wrong individuals

                 being charged.

                            SENATOR RATH:    That's a good

                 question, Senator.  And counsel advises me

                 that the same defense as in any other assault

                 case would hold forth throughout this.

                            And all we're doing here is

                 increasing the penalties to reflect the fact







                                                          3283



                 that we feel it should be a diversionary

                 effort to have people discontinue violent

                 behavior of this sort in front of children.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  On the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the bill,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I'm going to

                 vote for the legislation, just to make sure

                 that this becomes law.

                            I just wanted to suggest to Senator

                 Rath that the -- all defenses would certainly

                 be applicable, but it would probably be more

                 specific if we wrote it into the legislation.

                 I don't think it's stated as clearly as it

                 could be.

                            And I'm very interested in seeing

                 the bill passed.  We all like to see young

                 people who are witness to assaults, for the

                 most part that might occur through domestic

                 violence, to have some protection under the

                 law.

                            I would state as an ancillary note

                 that the fact that we are protecting a class







                                                          3284



                 of people, meaning minors, I think further

                 establishes the fact that we can protect a

                 number of classes of people in the context of

                 hate crimes.  And certainly those who might

                 oppose a hate crimes bill certainly should not

                 be citing that the law can't distinguish

                 between the classes of people who are

                 affected, because this legislation establishes

                 that it can.

                            And I can't really think of a

                 better reason to pass legislation that would

                 protect a class of people as would that

                 protection provided to minors through this

                 bill that's presented to us by Senator Rath.

                            And I thank her for sponsoring it

                 and suggest that we all support it.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is







                                                          3285



                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 842, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2463C, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Libous,

                 Senator Dollinger has requested an

                 explanation.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  It's deja vu all over again, as

                 Yogi Berra once said.

                            The bill that we have on the floor

                 before us is the Motor Vehicle Renter's

                 Responsibility and Protection Act.  The bill

                 would amend the General Business Law to repeal

                 the hundred-dollar liability cap for damages

                 to a rental vehicle.  It would also allow the

                 sale of optional vehicle protection that would

                 be made available to the renter.

                            The reason for the bill, as I

                 stated the other day, Madam President, is that

                 this is a response to a number of companies

                 over the past ten years that have gone out of

                 business because in New York State the

                 hundred-dollar cap has been in place.  All







                                                          3286



                 other states have removed the hundred-dollar

                 cap.  We believe it is prudent to do the same

                 in New York.

                            This is a pro-consumer bill.  This

                 is a pro-small business bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Will Senator Libous yield to

                 a couple of questions?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Libous,

                 would you yield to a couple of questions?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 I would be happy to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    You're right,

                 it was deja vu once, it's deja vu again.

                            When we had the discussion last

                 week, or it may have been the week before, I

                 raised the question, and I think you properly

                 pointed out that there was a reduction in the

                 number of rental car companies.  And I was

                 looking to try to find the cause of that and

                 find out whether this bill was going to

                 address the cause of that -- you know, create

                 a causality.







                                                          3287



                            And my question, through you, Madam

                 President, is what are the premiums for fleet

                 insurance in the rental car industry, and how

                 have they grown or been affected in the 11

                 years that we've had the limitation on

                 liability and we've banned the CDWs?  I

                 mean -- and particularly, I'm talking about

                 the fleet coverage solely for property damage

                 to the rented vehicle.  Liability and damage

                 to other vehicles would be separate charges.

                            But what about the -- what has the

                 effect of that been?  Because that would be

                 the only cost, I presume, for -- that would be

                 incurred by virtue of our having passed this

                 bill in 1988.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 in response to Senator Dollinger's question,

                 we checked into it and talked to some of the

                 companies and some of the folks in the

                 industry.

                            One of the reasons for this

                 legislation on the floor today is the fact

                 that many of the companies, particularly the

                 smaller companies that have gone out of

                 business -- there's some 300 companies that







                                                          3288



                 have since gone out of business -- cannot

                 purchase fleet insurance.  Fleet insurance is

                 extremely expensive from the carrier.  They

                 don't have the money to purchase the insurance

                 to give them any coverage.

                            What's happened over the past ten

                 years is that because of this, and because of

                 the hundred-dollar liability cap, they have

                 taken and absorbed the losses in their

                 day-to-day business operations.  And because

                 of that, we have seen a loss and a decrease of

                 about 46 percent.

                            So in response, Madam President, to

                 the Senator's question, is that fleet

                 insurance is not available because it is

                 cost-prohibitive.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Madam President.

                            Just so I understand.  If they

                 don't insure the car through fleet insurance,

                 you're not suggesting, Senator Libous, that

                 these insurance companies are leaving the

                 fleet without insurance coverage?  Because I

                 assume that that would apply not only to

                 collision insurance but liability insurance as







                                                          3289



                 well.  A car has to be insured.  It can't be

                 driven in the state of New York without

                 insurance.  Where does the insurance come

                 from?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    In the state of

                 New York, under present law, that automobile

                 is insured for up to a hundred dollars as far

                 as the liability to the consumer.  All right?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Correct.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    The business

                 owner has to absorb the cost.  And that's why

                 these businesses have gone out of business,

                 because they cannot afford the cost.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  Again,

                 through you, Madam President.

                            Do you have any statistics that

                 show how much the cost increased between

                 1988 -- obviously there was a fleet insurance

                 cost in 1988.  That cost has gone up, I

                 assume, since -- based on what you've said to

                 suggest that it has gone up since then.  I'd

                 just like to know, do you have any statistics

                 to show how much has fleet insurance gone up

                 so that that would create an extra cost?

                 Because that's the only extra cost that would







                                                          3290



                 be caused to rental insurance companies by

                 this -- by virtue of what we did in 1988.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 this bill does not pertain directly to fleet

                 insurance, and we don't have any direct

                 numbers on fleet insurance.  I would recommend

                 that if the Senator is interested in that,

                 that he might want to contact some insurance

                 carriers and some others in the industry who

                 might be able to afford that insurance.

                            What we're dealing with is the

                 liability right now to the consumer, to the

                 renter, to the car -- to the business.  And

                 that's what this bill is addressing.  It is

                 really not addressing an issue, Madam

                 President, as to what costs are for fleet

                 insurance.  That's certainly a business issue

                 that has to be dealt with.

                            The issue that we're addressing

                 directly in this bill is the fact that

                 optional insurance can be purchased for

                 collision damage when someone is renting an

                 automobile.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Madam President.







                                                          3291



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Libous,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    I'll be more

                 than happy to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, do

                 you know what the average cost is for the

                 collision coverage for an automobile in New

                 York state for a year?  How much does just the

                 collision rider cost?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    That I don't

                 know, Madam President.  Obviously, that is in

                 the personal insurance policy, as I mentioned

                 last week.  All of us who have personal

                 automobile policies pay for the rental policy

                 right now as far as collision damage is

                 concerned.  I would guess that that varies,

                 Senator, from company to company.

                            As a matter of fact, Madam

                 President, I am now shopping myself, because I

                 own four vehicles, and looking at what costs

                 are for automobile coverage.  And I find that

                 it varies dramatically from company to

                 company.







                                                          3292



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    It may vary

                 significantly -- through you, if Senator

                 Libous will continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Do you continue

                 to yield, Senator Libous?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    I'll be happy

                 to.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    It may vary

                 significantly.  But do you have any sense of

                 what the average cost is for collision

                 coverage in New York state, how many hundred

                 dollars of -- you would pay or less than a

                 hundred dollars you would pay for full

                 collision coverage even on a new car?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 I don't have the answer to that, but I don't

                 think it's relevant to the discussion before

                 us.  Because it is -- right now, if you have

                 an insurance policy in New York state for your

                 own personal automobile and you rent a car,

                 you're covered under that policy.  And right







                                                          3293



                 now, this law has not been changed.  So what

                 that cost is depends on what the company

                 charges.

                            What we're dealing with here in

                 this legislation, Madam President, very

                 simply, is that we are going to make available

                 to the consumer optional coverage if they do

                 not have the coverage on their credit card or

                 if they do not have the coverage on their

                 personal policy.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Madam President, just so I make

                 sure I understand it.  And if they -- through

                 you just to Senator Libous, if he'd yield for

                 a question, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Libous,

                 will you yield for an additional question?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Sure.  Sure.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What we're

                 really doing in this bill is we're shifting

                 the responsibility for collision coverage

                 exclusively to the renter.  Isn't that the

                 case?  If they buy the insurance, they're







                                                          3294



                 covered if the vehicle is stolen or cracked

                 up.  If they don't buy the coverage and the

                 car is stolen, then the rental car company

                 could sue them for the value of the car

                 because they're personally responsible for it;

                 correct?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Right now -

                 Madam President, through you -- Senator

                 Dollinger, right now if you use a credit card

                 or if you have your own coverage, you're

                 already paying for it.  No additional charge

                 to the consumer.

                            The only time there would be a

                 charge is that if the consumer has no coverage

                 and does not have a credit card to purchase

                 the insurance, then, again -- and I stress

                 this -- it is optional.  Then it is up to them

                 to make the decision whether they want to pay

                 for that insurance at the time they rent a

                 car.

                            And if I may also, Madam

                 President -- and through you to Senator

                 Dollinger -- 85 percent -- and this is an

                 important note -- 85 percent of all cars

                 rented in this state are rented by people from







                                                          3295



                 outside of the state.  That's a very important

                 fact.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Madam President, if Senator

                 Libous will continue to yield while -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Libous,

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    I'd be more than

                 happy to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.  Go

                 ahead, Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator,

                 isn't it safe to say that you would like to

                 make rental cars as cheap in New York state as

                 possible so that 85 percent of those tourists

                 don't have to pay extra fees to come to New

                 York?  Wouldn't you want to keep the cost of

                 rental car insurance down in an effort to

                 boost our tourism?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 that's exactly what this legislation is doing.

                 And yes, Madam President and Senator

                 Dollinger, that's what I want to do.

                            Let me give you an example.  They

                 just did this in Illinois -- which this bill







                                                          3296



                 is patterned after, as a matter of fact, the

                 Illinois legislation.  I'd like to read to you

                 the success, the tremendous success that

                 they've had there.

                            And it said basically that in less

                 than one year, the results have been

                 astonishing.  Automobile rental rates have

                 declined on average more than 25 percent.  For

                 example, the average rate for renting a

                 full-size car in Chicago had been reduced from

                 $64.99 per day to $41.99 a day.  Even with the

                 collision damage waiver, the cost -- the

                 per-day cost is less than the $51 per day.

                 And it reduced the rates.

                            And, Madam President, additionally,

                 in nine short months, more than 60 new rental

                 car companies or new branches have opened in

                 Illinois, and these additional companies have

                 purchased more than 2400 new cars.  And

                 it's -- it's seen rates go down.

                            We expect to see rental rates go

                 down in New York state with this legislation.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Madam President.

                            I have some different statistics,







                                                          3297



                 Senator, that suggest that in Illinois the

                 rate has gone up from about $20, on average,

                 to $21.65, while in New York the rate from

                 December 1996 to April of '99 has gone from

                 $23 to about $26.30.  The rates in Illinois

                 have gone up 8.25 percent; in New York,

                 they've gone up about 12 percent.

                            Is that consistent with the numbers

                 that you have, Senator?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 it must be that the numbers that I have are

                 accurate.  And, Senator, you might want to

                 check the sources that you received those -

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I suspected

                 that would be the response, Senator.

                            I have no further questions.  I'd

                 just like to address the bill, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, on the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    We talked

                 about this bill last time.  And with all due

                 respect to Senator Libous, I don't believe

                 there's any justification given on the floor







                                                          3298



                 thus far to pass this bill and to transfer to

                 consumers the exact problem that we passed the

                 statute in 1988 to overcome, which is the

                 predatory practice at that fragile moment when

                 you're renting a car when someone says "You

                 need to buy collision coverage."

                            And the reason why we passed this

                 statute in 1988 is because what we found was

                 that too many people were being told at the

                 rental car outlet that "Collision coverage?

                 We think you need it."  No one said what

                 Senator Libous said or what Senator Libous

                 perhaps would advise him, that anybody would

                 advise him:  "Did you know that if you buy

                 this with a credit card, you may not need it."

                 May not need it.  Some credit cards provide

                 that protection; others may not.

                            They also didn't say at this

                 critical moment when you're renting a car,

                 "Oh, by the way, guess what, if you have an

                 automobile and it's got collision coverage,

                 you're probably covered anyway."

                            And what we found was that the

                 predatory practice was that they simply said

                 "You need a collision damage waiver.  You







                                                          3299



                 should have collision coverage."  And the

                 information that the consumer needed to make

                 an intelligent choice about whether to buy it

                 or not wasn't given.  And as a consequence, in

                 1988 we passed this law.

                            I would suggest to Senator Libous

                 that there is no evidence before us right

                 now -- none, zero -- that the cost of insuring

                 those vehicles went up from 1988 to 1999 as a

                 consequence of our capping the liability to

                 the consumer at a hundred dollars.  There's no

                 evidence of that.  And in the absence of that

                 evidence, we're making public policy for some

                 unknown reason.  We're about to change the

                 policy of this state without a justification.

                            And I would suggest to Senator

                 Libous that the actual cost of the collision

                 damage coverage for your automobile, even if

                 it's a brand-new one, as I know many of these

                 rental cars offer, that that cost for

                 collision is about $2 a day, tops.  Buy a new

                 car, get it insured for collision, and it

                 costs you about $600 for the collision

                 coverage.

                            What we're doing in this bill is







                                                          3300



                 we're authorizing the rental car companies to

                 charge up to $9 a day for that cost that you

                 could buy in the marketplace for $2 a day.

                 What happens to the other $7 a day that

                 consumers are going to pay?  And I would just

                 suggest to Senator Libous that that extra $7 a

                 day is what we used to call -- if government

                 were doing that, we would call that a tax.

                 Because what we're doing is we're charging -

                 we're allowing someone to collect a fee that

                 frankly doesn't bear any relationship to the

                 price for the goods in the marketplace.

                            So what we're going to do is we're

                 authorizing the imposition of a $7-a-day tax

                 on the rental of a car in this state.  That's

                 what we're doing.  And we don't do that now,

                 but we're going to do that in the future.

                            And I would suggest to everyone in

                 this room that before we impose a tax like

                 this that will not build any new roads, will

                 not build any new highways, will not do

                 anything for the benefit of government but

                 instead is going to put $7 a day in the

                 pockets of the rental car companies, that

                 before we do that we should have a valid, a







                                                          3301



                 strong, and a justifiable reason for doing it.

                            And if Senator Libous had stood

                 here and said, "Gee, Rick, look, the cost of

                 collision damage has gone way up because of

                 this cap.  Since the consumer isn't paying

                 their fair share, it's been shifted over to

                 the auto rental companies."  And you could

                 justifiably say, "Wait a second, Rick, it's

                 time for the consumer, since the cost has gone

                 way up, to bear a bigger burden of the cost."

                 I could buy that argument.  But I don't see

                 that before us today.

                            And I would just suggest that this

                 is a rental car tax.  Let's call it for what

                 it is.  And the problem is that this tax is

                 going to end up in the pocket of someone other

                 than government.  This is going to be a

                 $7-a-day contribution to the rental car

                 business.

                            Senator Libous is correct.  There

                 are fewer rental car companies in this state

                 than there were 11 years ago.  I would suggest

                 there are fewer businesses of all varieties, a

                 consolidation that's happened.  And there's

                 not one shred of evidence that that







                                                          3302



                 consolidation was driven by this consumer

                 protection statute.

                            The policy reason for putting this

                 in place in 1988, which was to protect

                 consumers at the time they bought this type of

                 insurance, is as relevant today as it was

                 then.  In the 11 intervening years, we've done

                 one thing.  We've forgotten the reason why we

                 did it in the first place.

                            Don't forget that.  We will be back

                 here.  The same practices that occurred at the

                 time of purchase of this insurance will occur

                 again and again and again.  And your consumers

                 and my consumers are going to pay an

                 unnecessary $7 a day.

                            And how much does that come to,

                 Senator Libous?  My guess is that -- guess.

                 That's all I've got.  I would suggest that

                 there've been lots of guesses today.  But my

                 guess is that there are about 5,000 to 8,000

                 cars rented in this state a day, every day.

                 Multiply that by $7, the difference between

                 what you could buy the insurance for versus

                 what they're going to charge, and suddenly you

                 have a $35,000-a-day tax that's going to be







                                                          3303



                 imposed on consumers in this state.

                            Even if most of them live

                 out-of-state, I would suggest it's a

                 disincentive to our tourist business.  And if

                 they live in our state, it's frankly what they

                 used to call a rip-off.

                            I think this is a bad piece of

                 legislation.  With all due respect to the

                 chair of the Mental Health Committee, I don't

                 see this as pro-consumer, I don't see this as

                 pro-business.  I see this as sanctioning a

                 practice that we called a rip-off in 1988.  We

                 ought to call it a rip-off in 1999.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 with the consent of the minority, could we

                 have the last section read for the purposes of

                 Senator Rath and Senator Skelos voting.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR RATH:    Aye.







                                                          3304



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Aye.

                            Please withdraw the roll call.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The roll call is

                 withdrawn.

                            Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 I really didn't intend to speak on this.  But

                 because I guess I have a little history on

                 this legislation, I thought maybe I ought to

                 say something.

                            Back in 1988, I represented an area

                 around the airport in Buffalo.  That's where

                 all the rental car people are.  There used to

                 be a lot of little ones there, and of course

                 the bigger ones.

                            Well, the bill that is being talked

                 about here passed in 1988, and all the little

                 people came charging into my office, and I

                 remember came charging into all sorts of our

                 offices, and they said if this legislation

                 persists, if this situation persists, all the

                 big people will be all right, they will be

                 able to handle this and they will remain in

                 the state, and you'll get rid of most of the

                 competition.  And what will happen is for a







                                                          3305



                 short period of time, maybe the rates will go

                 down a little bit, and then they'll go up.

                 Which they have.

                            Now, what happened was we didn't

                 change the legislation, and those little

                 people are gone.  The people around the

                 airport now, I can think of only one smaller

                 rental car operation that's left.

                            Now, you can tell me all you want

                 that this legislation in 1988 had nothing to

                 do with those people leaving.  But what

                 happened to them?  They left.  The big people

                 are still there.  And those big people's

                 rates, by the way, went up.  And this is an

                 interesting issue, because I think it points

                 up the fact that sometimes we don't realize

                 what happens, particularly in the insurance

                 business and in some of the business around

                 this state, when competition is knocked out.

                            We have a situation right now, and

                 those of you who are from New York City,

                 whether you realize it or not, you're the only

                 part of the state right now that is not being

                 impacted by lower airline rates.  And the main

                 reason that you're not being impacted by it is







                                                          3306



                 because we have been trying for several

                 years -- we have a task force on airlines'

                 rates, which we've gotten very little

                 publicity about because the people in

                 Washington are grabbing all the publicity.

                 We've been trying to get gate slots at La

                 Guardia, at Kennedy, and at Newark from the

                 Authority who owns the gates down there, and

                 we haven't been able to do it.

                            And the result has been we haven't

                 been able to get the competition.  And without

                 that competition, the rates for airlines,

                 particularly in New York City, have remained

                 extremely high.

                            Upstate, we've been able to get

                 some airlines in, some new airlines, and the

                 result has been the rates have been falling in

                 places like Buffalo and Rochester and

                 Syracuse.  But without competition, that's not

                 going to happen.

                            Fascinating issue, because you can

                 call all this sort of stuff you want taxes and

                 all that sort of thing.  But the truth is what

                 happened in 1988 clearly and unequivocally

                 helped the bigger leasing companies.  They







                                                          3307



                 were able to survive and went through it and

                 so forth.  The little people went out of

                 business because they were impacted by the

                 legislation that passed in '88, and the other

                 people were able to handle it.

                            The question I think we have to ask

                 ourselves, though, is who really was benefited

                 by that.  And I think what Senator Libous is

                 trying to do is to make sure that everyone is

                 benefited, the little guys are benefited.  Oh,

                 yes, we understand that some of the insurance

                 companies don't like it, although they haven't

                 conveyed that dislike to very many of us that

                 I'm really aware of, except that we've heard

                 through the grapevine that they don't like it.

                 And of course that's the regular insurance

                 companies.

                            The truth is, Senator Dollinger,

                 I'm afraid I just don't agree with you.  I

                 don't think that the 1988 law, although it was

                 intended to be a consumer protection issue -

                 I think Senator Libous's bill is the

                 consumer-protection issue.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.







                                                          3308



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, can I be heard before the -

                            THE SECRETARY:    -- effect in

                 90 -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I don't -- I

                 hadn't intended to speak for the second time.

                 I don't know whether Senator Schneiderman had.

                 But I have just a couple of follow-up points

                 to Senator Volker's comments.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger, go ahead.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Couple of

                 quick things -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate

                 Senator Volker's episodic evidence -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator -

                 Senator Dollinger, are you on the bill or do

                 you have a question?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I am on the

                 bill, Madam President.







                                                          3309



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate

                 Senator Volker's episodic view of the little

                 people who went out when the consolidation,

                 like many consolidations -- I point out that

                 little airlines went out of business, little

                 rental car companies, little car companies

                 went out of business.  It's a time of

                 consolidation.

                            And I challenged Senator Libous the

                 last time we were here to prove to me that

                 this particular statute, which outlawed the

                 sale of collision damage waivers and the

                 hundred-dollar cap on personal responsibility,

                 that that caused them to go out of business,

                 that it increased their premiums, that it

                 resulted in an increase in insurance so that

                 only the big boys could play in the

                 marketplace.

                            Senator, if that were the case, I

                 would suggest that the logic for this bill

                 would get stronger.  But I haven't heard that

                 case made, and I'm waiting to see that it's

                 made.  If we were, as a consequence of this

                 bill, drastically increasing the cost for







                                                          3310



                 individual insurance for these vehicles when

                 they're rented, and that they couldn't compete

                 because big sellers of this service were able

                 to discount, then I would say Senator Libous

                 may have a point.

                            I would point out, however, that

                 that is not the case.  There is no evidence to

                 support that point.  There's no correlation

                 between supposedly increased premiums and the

                 passage of this bill.

                            And I would just sum up by adding

                 one other thing.  I always have sort of a

                 "through the looking glass" approach to this

                 chamber.  I always walk in here and sometimes

                 figure that I have walked into that land on

                 the other side of the looking glass.  And I

                 feel like I'm here today, because what I hear

                 is that this is a pro-consumer bill.  It

                 repeals the fundamental piece of consumer

                 protection, which is a hundred-dollar cap on

                 the consumer's liability in the event the

                 vehicle is stolen or damaged.  It protects the

                 consumer.  It says no matter what happens, if

                 it's stolen from you and it's not your fault,

                 the most you have to pay is a hundred dollars.







                                                          3311



                            When this bill becomes law, if it

                 someday does, the answer will be if it's

                 stolen from you, you now owe the insurance

                 company $12,000.  How that could be perceived

                 as benefiting the consumer -- I would suggest

                 it looks like that came from the Cheshire Cat,

                 because it's just not real.  The pro-consumer

                 decision made in 1988 is still a good one.

                            And to do this now is really, as I

                 said before, it was a rip-off in '88.  It

                 would still be a rip-off.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I just

                 wanted to add to Senator Dollinger's comments,

                 which I think make the case very well that

                 this is a particular burden to people in New

                 York City, many of whom do not own cars and

                 would be compelled to always pay this

                 additional $7 a day into the pockets of the

                 car rental companies.

                            I realize it's not been a great







                                                          3312



                 month for the people in New York City in this

                 house, but at least in this piece of

                 legislation I hope we can give everyone a

                 break, as those extraordinarily persuasive

                 people in the Rockland County legislature are

                 not pushing us for this bill.

                            This would have a severe impact on

                 many communities in New York City where no one

                 owns a car and where all of those people would

                 be required to buy the collision damage

                 waiver.  And I urge everyone to vote in the

                 negative, certainly everyone from New York

                 City.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    I'd like to

                 answer that question, because that's a good

                 one.

                            Senator, I would assume that most

                 if not all people in New York City who rent a

                 car would use a credit card.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Many

                 would.  Many would not.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Yeah, I would

                 guess that most -- I don't know too many

                 people that write a check or pay cash to rent

                 a car.







                                                          3313



                            And they would be covered under any

                 major credit card that covers the account, so

                 that they would not have to pay for the

                 collision damage waiver.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            Senator Dollinger says over and

                 over again that this is anticonsumer because,

                 in his last statement, on the current law the

                 obligation is no more than a hundred dollars,

                 but if this becomes law then that individual

                 would be responsible for $12,000, $15,000,

                 whatever the value of that car is, should it

                 be stolen or totaled.  And that's what I heard

                 him say.

                            Now, Senator Libous, if you would

                 yield -- Madam President?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    I'd happy to

                 yield, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Is it not true

                 that a rental agency would not rent that car

                 if, A, as you said several times, the person







                                                          3314



                 had a credit card that covered it, or, B,

                 their insurance policy covered it, or, C, they

                 bought insurance that would be available by

                 the rental car agency?  Am I correct in that

                 assumption?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    That's correct.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    So therefore,

                 under no circumstance would the renter be

                 responsible for the $12,000 or $15,000 that

                 you keep telling us about, Senator.

                            Well, you're going to have to

                 put -- the rental agency's going to do one of

                 those three things with you, or in cooperation

                 with you.  They're not going to let you walk

                 out of there bare.  Because if they did that,

                 then they're relying upon your ability to come

                 up with that money.  And that would be a very

                 bad business decision.

                            So I would suggest to you, Senator

                 Dollinger, that your hypothesis just falls

                 flat when you apply some logic, if not the

                 proposal that's before us.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This







                                                          3315



                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President.  Madam President, may we have a

                 slow roll call on this?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    May we have a

                 slow roll call on this?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    I see five

                 members standing.  The Secretary will call the

                 roll.  Slowly.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno.

                            (Senator Bruno was recorded as

                 voting in the affirmative.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Connor.

                            (Senator Connor was recorded as







                                                          3316



                 voting in the negative.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    To explain my

                 vote, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger, to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate

                 Senator Padavan's comments.  And at least as I

                 understand it, what we're talking about is

                 optional vehicle protection.  It's not a

                 mandatory sale.  You don't have to buy the

                 collision damage waiver.  You don't have to

                 buy the insurance.  The way I read it, the

                 bill refers to optional vehicle protection.

                            And I would suggest that the

                 insurance company will never be in a situation

                 where the vehicle will be uninsured.  What

                 they'll do is they'll insure the fleet

                 generally, they'll charge the consumer.  If

                 the consumer doesn't buy it, they'll simply

                 take, in the event the vehicle is stolen,







                                                          3317



                 since it is optional -- it's not a mandatory

                 purchase.  You're not required to purchase it.

                            And under those circumstances, the

                 scenario that I've discussed is a possibility,

                 which is you don't buy it with a credit card,

                 you don't have your own car, and instead you

                 drive away saying "I don't want the collision

                 damage coverage.  I want the liability

                 protection, I want everything else, but I

                 don't want the collision," somebody steals the

                 car, and the consumer will be held liable.

                            That was the whole point of the

                 hundred-dollar cap, is that if all those

                 things happened, the cap would be a hundred

                 dollars.

                            Again, Madam President, I really

                 think we're right here on the other side of

                 the looking glass and we're talking about this

                 as though it were a consumer protection bill.

                 Why there are no consumer groups in here

                 asking for it to be passed and all are in here

                 saying don't pass this bill would suggest to

                 me that on the other side of the looking

                 glass, in that real world we're supposed to

                 live in, this is a bad consumer bill.







                                                          3318



                            I vote in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger, you will be recorded as voting in

                 the negative on this bill.

                            The Secretary will continue to call

                 the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.

                            SENATOR GONZALEZ:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes.







                                                          3319



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kruger.

                            SENATOR KRUGER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kuhl.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I rise to explain my vote.

                            I've listened very carefully to the

                 debate on the floor this afternoon.  And once

                 again, I'm always surprised at debates which

                 make us the nation of New York rather than the

                 state of New York, and a failure to understand

                 that there are 49 other states in the Union.

                 I've listened to the other side, very

                 carefully, explain about the liability of

                 $12,000, $15,000.  And I must admit, I didn't

                 know we had this wall at our state borders.

                            All those other problems that, if

                 we adopt this, that must be going on in those







                                                          3320



                 other states -- Illinois, which just repealed

                 it, states like California and Texas, states

                 in which, you know, thousands of people

                 travel, tens of thousands of people, to rent

                 cars -- and all that liability that they must

                 be experiencing.

                            I must admit, Madam President, I

                 guess I don't read the newspapers well enough.

                 I fail to have read any article about a

                 $15,000 liability some poor traveler in

                 California or in Texas -- the one thing I do

                 see in newspapers, however, and I invite all

                 my colleagues on the other side of the aisle

                 to take a look at it, is travel sections in

                 Sunday's newspapers.  Read them sometimes.

                 And when you do, look at all those ads for the

                 rental car companies.  And look at the bottom

                 print, when they have "Special, $19.95,"

                 "Special, $23.95," look at the small print:

                 "Not available in New York State."  You'll

                 find that in every car ad in every Sunday

                 travel section in every newspaper in the

                 country, and you'll see it again next Sunday.

                            I vote aye.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack, you







                                                          3321



                 will be recorded as voting in the affirmative

                 on this bill.

                            The Secretary will continue to call

                 the roll, please.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Larkin.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

                 to explain my vote.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Libous,

                 to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I've heard the debate.  We've

                 answered questions this afternoon.  And I just

                 would like to cover a couple of very important

                 points that I think have been missed in this

                 entire debate.  This bill is very much

                 pro-consumer and it is very much pro-business.

                 And I think the statistics really speak for

                 themselves, and they ring a bell loud and







                                                          3322



                 clear.  And I want to share them one more

                 time.

                            Over the past ten years, we've lost

                 46 percent of the car rental companies in this

                 state.  So whatever we did, that wasn't

                 pro-business.  We had 572 locations; we now

                 have 319 locations.  The accident frequency

                 for rental cars increased by 250 percent

                 because there was no renter responsibility.

                            You know, on this floor we talk

                 about a number of different issues.  You hear

                 things about personal responsibility.  You

                 rent a VCR, you smash it up, you're liable for

                 it.  You rent a tuxedo, you rip it, you're

                 liable for it.  You rent a car in New York

                 state, total it, and you can walk away for a

                 hundred dollars.  There has to be some

                 personal responsibility.

                            But yet there is coverage for this.

                 The coverage is available.  Those of us who

                 have automobiles and have policies, we have

                 collision coverage on those policies.  We're

                 covered if we rent a car.  If you carry a

                 major credit card -- and I have to be very

                 candid.  I don't think there's a rental car







                                                          3323



                 agency in the country that will rent you a car

                 without a credit card.  If there is, I'd like

                 to be there.  I'd like to talk to them.  And

                 any of the major credit cards has collision

                 coverage.  So for those individuals who claim

                 they don't have personal policies, it's

                 available.

                            Then the insurance is made

                 optional.  If you have neither, the insurance

                 is optional.  I would think, as someone who

                 takes personal responsibility for my action,

                 if I had neither the credit card or a personal

                 automobile insurance and I were to rent a car,

                 a piece of property that didn't belong to me,

                 I would want to take responsibility for that

                 piece of property if I were to take it out and

                 damage it.  That's the way I was brought up.

                            And I would pay, Senator Dollinger.

                 I would pay for that $7 or $2.  It all depends

                 on what the company wants to charge.  It could

                 be as little as 1, it could be zero.

                            The point here, I think we're

                 pretty clear that there is coverage for the

                 consumer.  And on -- if you look at the bill,

                 Madam President, if you look at the







                                                          3324



                 information on the bill, we are going to put

                 it in big type right on the front of the bill

                 that talks about the responsibility for the

                 consumer.  Because we care deeply about the

                 consumer, and we will protect the consumer.

                            Madam President, this is a

                 pro-business bill, it is a pro-consumer bill,

                 it is good for the state, it is good for the

                 consumers of this state.  I vote aye.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Markowitz.

                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    No.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I was voting

                 for Senator Markowitz.







                                                          3325



                            (Laughter.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez,

                 excused.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Madam -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Montgomery, to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President, just briefly to explain my vote.

                            I think that I may have even voted

                 no on the original bill that we passed because

                 I thought that $100 was quite low.  And I

                 certainly would be very much in favor of

                 raising that cap.  I think that makes sense.

                 But certainly not to repeal the law which

                 protects consumers to a large extent.

                            So I'm voting no.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Montgomery, you will be recorded as voting in

                 the negative on this bill.

                            The Secretary will continue to call







                                                          3326



                 the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nanula.

                            SENATOR NANULA:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Madam

                 President, I'd like to explain my vote -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    -- and in the

                 process attempt once again to respond to

                 Senator Dollinger's comments.

                            He says this is an optional

                 insurance coverage bill, and in so saying

                 claims that the renter would be liable for the

                 full value of that car should it be stolen or

                 totaled.  That is his contention.

                            But if he reads the bill and

                 further clarifies, for his own benefit and the

                 rest of us, what the word "optional" means







                                                          3327



                 here.  Now, if you look on page 5, it says:

                 "This shall be printed in bold-faced type on

                 the contract.  This contract offers for an

                 additional charge optional vehicle protection

                 to cover your financial responsibility for

                 damage or loss to the rental vehicle.  The

                 purchase of optional vehicle protection is

                 optional and may be declined."

                            So far you're right.

                            "However, you are advised to

                 carefully consider whether to purchase this

                 protection if you have rental vehicle

                 collision coverage provided by your credit

                 card or automobile insurance policy coverage

                 before you decide whether to purchase the

                 optional insurance."

                            So what they're saying to the

                 consumer, it's optional, but don't buy it if

                 you're already covered by your credit card or

                 by your personal policy on your vehicle back

                 home.  That's the optional part.

                            Now, obviously no rental agency is

                 going to let you walk out of there with that

                 vehicle without one of these three options

                 being exercised.  And that's the point I was







                                                          3328



                 trying to make to you, which you choose to

                 ignore.

                            I vote aye.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Padavan,

                 you will be recorded as voting in the

                 affirmative on this bill.

                            The Secretary will continue to call

                 the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rath

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Rosado.

                            SENATOR ROSADO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Saland.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Sampson.

                            SENATOR SAMPSON:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Santiago.

                            SENATOR SANTIAGO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seabrook.

                            SENATOR SEABROOK:    No.







                                                          3329



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Skelos

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Smith.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Spano.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Vellela.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Waldon.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Aye.







                                                          3330



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will call the absentees.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kuhl.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Smith.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Waldon.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 34.  Nays,







                                                          3331



                 20.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1053, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4850,

                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to indemnification.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    May I have a

                 brief explanation, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bonacic,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This is legislation that intends to

                 extend a state defense and indemnification to

                 officers, members, and directors and employees

                 of the State of New York Mortgage Agency,

                 known as SONYMA.

                            What has happened over the years is

                 that we have extended the defense and

                 indemnification to these categories of

                 employees, officers, and directors for many

                 public authority and public benefit

                 corporations.  And just to quickly name a few,

                 the Local Government Assistance Corporation,







                                                          3332



                 the Greenway Heritage Conservancy, Greenway

                 Council, the Energy Research and Development

                 Authority, the Science and Technology

                 Foundation.

                            In addition, we do it for the State

                 University Construction Fund, the Facilities

                 Development Corporation, Long Island Power

                 Authority, and even our own New York State

                 Urban Development Corporation.  And, last but

                 not least, our Housing Finance Agency.

                            What we want to now do is extend

                 this same privilege to the officers,

                 directors, and employees of SONYMA.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President.  If Senator Bonacic will

                 yield just to one question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, would

                 you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Absolutely.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    As I

                 understand this, this preserves the exception







                                                          3333



                 that if the actions were not in good faith and

                 were not made for a public purpose, they

                 wouldn't be entitled to the indemnification?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    The standard

                 that they use is the same standard that

                 applies to all of those other agencies that

                 I've said.  And to answer your question

                 specifically, it's yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    So the

                 Section 20 -- line -- line 20 through 24,

                 which deals with the exception, says you

                 aren't covered if you participate in bad

                 faith, that's in all the other statutes in the

                 other agencies that we protect?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    It is.  It's

                 the same standard.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  No

                 objection.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          3334



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    If I may, Madam

                 President, I want to announce the fact that

                 this afternoon from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m., there's

                 going to be a reception at the New York State

                 Museum featuring the works brought to this

                 capital by the Whitney Museum of Art in New

                 York City.

                            This exhibit will be of exceptional

                 interest to legislators in particular, since

                 it relates to the work of artists in New York

                 done between the years 1900 and 1940.  You

                 will recall that these were years of

                 tremendous ferment in our society.  The

                 exhibit will touch upon the World War I years,

                 the prosperity, the Great Depression, the

                 change in the metropolis from urban -- in the

                 urban metropolises of our state.

                            And I think you'll find this an

                 extremely interesting and approachable exhibit







                                                          3335



                 which you'll enjoy greatly, not to mention the

                 fact that there'll be hors d'oeuvres and

                 refreshments served, with a distinguished

                 group of Albany residents.

                            May I urge you, ladies and

                 gentlemen, to attend this exhibit.  It's

                 something sponsored by the Senate, brought

                 here as the third in a series, the first from

                 the Metropolitan Museum, the second from the

                 Museum of Modern Art, and finally this from

                 the Whitney, all reflecting a concern that we

                 have with the culture of our state and the

                 fact that museums should not keep things in

                 their basements but should share them with

                 other cities.

                            I think you'll enjoy it immensely,

                 and I look forward to personally welcoming you

                 at the exhibit, along with the Trustees of the

                 Whitney, the Mayor of Albany, and a great

                 number of other dignitaries.  Please do come.

                 I think you'll find it a very rewarding

                 experience.  Thank you very much.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Goodman, for that announcement.

                            Senator Alesi, that completes the







                                                          3336



                 controversial reading of the calendar.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Madam President,

                 is there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    No, Senator

                 Alesi, there is no housekeeping at the desk.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    There being no

                 further business, I move we adjourn until

                 Wednesday, May 26th, at 11:00 a.m.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On motion, the

                 Senate stands adjourned until Wednesday,

                 May 26, 11:00 a.m.

                            (Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)