Regular Session - June 1, 1999
3378
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE
STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
June 1, 1999
3:02 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
SENATOR BRUNO: We're going to do
a swearing in of our newest Senator, so I
would ask that you repeat after me.
I, Thomas Morahan -
SENATOR MORAHAN: I, Thomas
Morahan -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- do solemnly
swear -
SENATOR MORAHAN: -- do solemnly
swear -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- to uphold the
Constitution of the United States -
SENATOR MORAHAN: -- to uphold
the Constitution of the United States -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- the
Constitution of the State of New York -
SENATOR MORAHAN: -- the
Constitution of the State of New York -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- and to
faithfully discharge the duties -
SENATOR MORAHAN: -- and to
faithfully discharge the duties -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- of the office
of State Senator -
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SENATOR MORAHAN: -- of the
office of States Senator -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- to the best of
my ability -
SENATOR MORAHAN: -- to the best
of my ability -
SENATOR BRUNO: -- so help me
God.
SENATOR MORAHAN: -- so help me
God.
SENATOR BRUNO: Congratulations.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask the members to find their
places, staff to find their places. I'd ask
everybody in the chamber to rise and join with
me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the
Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: In the
absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a
moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
3381
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Sunday, May 30th, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, May 29,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
no objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
The Chair recognizes Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can we ask for an immediate meeting of the
Rules Committee in Room 332.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
Committee, an immediate meeting of the Rules
Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
Room 332. An immediate meeting of the Rules
Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
Room 332.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
3382
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
The Chair recognizes Senator
Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you,
Mr. President. I wish to call up my bill,
Print Number 1478, recalled from the Assembly,
which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1032, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1478, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
3383
Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: I now offer the
following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Johnson, I wish to call
up Bill Print Number 2785, recalled from the
Assembly, which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
304, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2785, an
act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now offer the following amendments.
3384
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to call up
Bill Print Number 1592, recalled from the
Assembly, which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
82, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1592, an
act to amend the Penal Law and others.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now offer the following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator Wright.
3385
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Fuschillo, I wish to call
up Bill Print Number 557, recalled from the
Assembly, which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
161, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 557,
an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
SENATOR WRIGHT: I now offer the
following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Fuschillo, I wish to call
up Bill Print Number 1090, recalled from the
3386
Assembly, which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
712, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 1090,
an act to authorize the Amityville Apostolic
Overwhelming -- Overcoming Holy Church of God.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I
now offer the following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator Libous.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
I'd like to remove the sponsor star from
Calendar Number 204 and 223.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Stars are
removed from Calendar Number 204 and 223 at
3387
the request of Senator Libous.
Senator Seward.
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. Mr.
President, amendments are offered to the
following Third Reading Calendar bill,
sponsored by Senator Rath, on page 33,
Calendar Number 793, Senate Print Number 4390.
Also by Senator Rath, on page Number 37,
Calendar Number 837, Print Number 722A.
By Senator Skelos, on page 49,
Calendar Number 1003, Print Number 5275.
By Senator LaValle, on page 54,
Calendar Number 1068, Senate Print Number
5206.
And by Senator Volker, on page
number 45, Calendar Number 943, Senate Print
Number 3171.
Mr. President, I move that these
bills retain their place on the order of third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted. The
bills will retain their places on the Third
Reading Calendar.
Senator Trunzo.
3388
SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President,
please put a sponsor star on Calendar Number
640.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 640,
Senator Trunzo?
SENATOR TRUNZO: On today's
calendar, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
Number 640 is starred at the request of the
sponsor.
Senator Breslin.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Mr. President,
on page 31 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar Number 766, Senate Print Number 2966,
and ask that said bill retain its position on
the third calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted. The bill
will retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Bruno, we have a couple of
substitutions at the desk. Would you like us
to read those?
SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, please do,
Mr. President.
3389
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the substitutions.
THE SECRETARY: On page 9,
Senator Volker moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 323
and substitute it for the identical Third
Reading Calendar, 226.
On page 32, Senator Skelos moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 8394, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar, 783.
On page 37, Senator Padavan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 8301, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar, 834.
On page 49, Senator Goodman moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 741, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar,
1004.
On page 52, Senator Farley moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 8201, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar,
1041.
3390
And on page 54, Senator Libous
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8219, and
substitute it for the identical Third Reading
Calendar, 1075.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
substitutions are ordered.
Senator Bruno, if we can get a
little quiet in the chamber, we're ready for
the calendar.
SENATOR BRUNO: Can we at this
time take up the noncontroversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
36, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1031C, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
the protection of pupils.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
127, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 84A, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and
3391
the Insurance Law, in relation to devoting.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
September.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
188, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1932,
an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Law, in relation to consumer tastings.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 30th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
3392
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
319, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3012A,
an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation
to designating a portion.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
355, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 3478 -
SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
449, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 36 -
SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside for
3393
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
536, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 743A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
endangering the welfare of a child.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
549, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 2753B,
an act to amend the Penal Law and others, in
relation to forfeiting.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
3394
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
783, substituted earlier today by the Assembly
Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number
8394, an act to amend Chapter 704 of the laws
of 1991.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
891, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4411 -
SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside for
3395
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
892, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4414, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to replacement.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
894, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4491, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to resident discounts.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
3396
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
902, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2760, an
act to amend Chapter 246 of the laws of 1916.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
949, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4536 -
SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside for
the day.
3397
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
961, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5091, an
act to amend the Public Health Law and the
Education Law, in relation to the
administration.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect in 30 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
966, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3900, an
act to amend the Public Service Law, in
relation to avoiding unnecessary delays.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
3398
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1035, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5477,
an act to amend Section 564 of Chapter 170 of
the laws of 1994.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Bruno, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR BRUNO: Can we at this
time take up the controversial calendar,
Mr. President.
3399
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
36, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1031C, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
the protection of pupils.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 36
has been requested by the Acting Minority
Leader, Senator Paterson.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
Mr. President.
Mr. President, this bill is a bill
which has been the focus of the Children and
Families Committee, the focus of the committee
that I chair, for some three or four years
now. And we have seen it in one form or
another over the course of that period of time
before this house, and it has generally passed
with comfortable margins, if not unanimously.
What this bill intends to do and
proposes to do is to deal with the subject of
abuse that occurs in the school setting, abuse
that occurs where a child is sexually or
3400
physically abused by a school employee.
Unfortunately, and for those of you
who follow the clips that we receive, there's
probably been somewhere in the area of about a
dozen and a half reports of child sexual abuse
at the hands of a school employee over the
course of the past 15 months, from one tip of
New York to another.
What this bill proposes to do is to
establish a mechanism. The first part of the
mechanism would be to require fingerprinting
of all school employees, whether they be
certified employees, such as teachers or
school administrators, or noncertified
employees, such as school personnel who may
work in a cafeteria or do maintenance work or
clerical work.
The purpose, obviously, is to try
and determine who among those applicants are
not suited to be working in close proximity
with children. Now, as strange as this may
seem, some two-thirds of the states and the
City of New York have some type of
fingerprinting in process. So if, for
instance, in New York City you make
3401
application for a position to work for the
Board of Education, you're going to be
fingerprinted. And if in fact that
fingerprint record comes back with a hit, the
likelihood is, depending upon those charges,
that you are not going to be a suitable
candidate.
Now, going back to 1996, the last
year for which we have available data, the
City of New York did 25,000 screens, and some
1200 of those screens came back positive,
included people who had committed homicides,
people who had committed sexual offenses.
Obviously, these are not the kind of folks you
want working in close proximity with children.
That experience was similarly paralleled in
New Jersey, which also has this type of
legislation.
What we're saying today is when a
parent sends a child off to school, the parent
has every reason to believe -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland. Senator Saland.
It's getting just a little noisy in
here. Take the conversations out of the
3402
chamber, please.
Excuse the interruption, Senator
Saland. The floor is still yours for an
explanation.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you very
much, Mr. President.
As I started to say, when a parent
sends a child off to school, the parent would
like to believe that the child is going to
receive a quality education and it's going to
be in a safe and secure environment. And
unfortunately, there are far too many cases in
which that environment proves not to be safe.
At one of the hearings conducted by
my committee last year, we had testimony from
a Ph.D., Dr. Charol Shakeshaft, who testified
to the effect that some 15 percent of
schoolchildren are the subject of some type of
abuse during the course of their school
experience. Now, those studies were conducted
under a federal grant. She's one of the few
people to have conducted such studies.
Every day, approximately 2.8
million students go off to school, some 1.7
million of them are outside of the City of New
3403
York, some 1.1 million in the City of New
York. And the 1.7 are unprotected, they are
unprotected, 1.7 million children.
And what we're proposing to do here
is to craft the mechanism that says at the
beginning, at the mouth of the funnel, we're
going to weed out the real bad guys and bad
gals to make the environment for our children
that much safer.
But we're going to go beyond that.
We're going to tie to that fingerprinting
requirement the requirement to report. We do
not want the veil of silence and secrecy to
surround events of abuse that occur in a
school setting. And we know in fact that has
been the case, and we want to prevent that
from being a continuing practice here in the
state of New York.
So we say that anybody who is a
school employee who has an obligation to
report -- and we include there teachers,
administrators, and a host of others, as are
defined in the bill -- if you fail to report,
you will be found -- you will be at risk of
being found guilty of having committed a
3404
misdemeanor.
And we say to a school
superintendent if that school superintendent,
in order to hush up an incident in which a
child has been sexually abused or physically
abused, says "I'm willing to take a
resignation from a teacher in lieu of having
to bring on a proceeding which may bring a lot
of notoriety to the community, perhaps some
embarrassment. I will accept a so-called
silent resignation, and then you can go on and
teach in some other school district in some
other part of the state" -- and again, that is
not an uncommon occurrence -- we make that too
a crime.
We say if you're going to engage in
that type of a rather heinous agreement, that
you in fact run the risk of being subjected to
a felony charge for willingly sweeping under
the carpet a sexual abuse or physical abuse
charge of a child.
The reporting mechanisms are pretty
simple. What we want to do is at the earliest
possible stage introduce law enforcement. We
don't want school personnel doing functions
3405
that are appropriately the functions of law
enforcement; namely, criminal investigations.
Let teachers teach, let administrators
administer. We don't want them tainting an
investigation by getting involved in it.
There is requirements to report
immediately to parents, to district attorneys,
the relevant district attorneys. We require
the completion of certain basic information -
just a chronology of what happened, where it
happened -- and that in effect being turned
over to the district attorney for
investigation.
We believe this bill is
well-balanced. We believe this bill strikes
the kind of responsive cord to the
considerable amount of testimony we received
last year. We believe this bill is long
overdue. There is no reason to discriminate
against 1.7 million children in our school
systems outside of the City of New York. We
should not be creating safe havens for child
sexual abusers, pedophiles, and predators.
We believe this bill makes sense.
It's supported by the PTA, it's supported by
3406
the School Boards Association. And while at
one time NYSUT, in a prior version, had
submitted a memo in opposition, they have
withdrawn their opposition. And I look
forward to this house speedily and unanimously
passing this bill.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. If Senator Saland would yield
for a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you yield to a question from
Senator Paterson?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: First of all,
Mr. President, I appreciate the work that
Senator Saland has done on this bill. This
bill has a rather rich history to it. There
have been times that I haven't seen fit to
support it.
3407
But certainly this piece of
legislation that we look at here today really
does address a number of the issues involving
the duties with respect to child abuse and -
within the school system, and particularly the
elimination of the silent resignation, which
allowed many employees of a district to leave
under a veil, to go to a different area, and
often to continue abusing young people without
the new entity in which they were working to
be aware of what they were actually doing.
My questions on this legislation
relate to the issues involving liability by
the superintendent of schools, the school
personnel that work within the schools and
also the state -- appropriate state agencies.
While we put upon them an affirmative duty to
act, we are at the same time removing
liability from any kind of civil action should
there be found to be some negligence. Even if
a person has been careless and reckless,
there's no way that an action can be brought
against them based on this bill.
And if Senator Saland would yield
for a question, I would just like his
3408
explanation of why we're choosing -- after all
of this relevant and very effective law that
we're going to pass within this bill, we would
want to give these entities -- in a sense, we
would actually shield them from any kind of
liability in these cases.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
Thank you, Senator Paterson, for
asking that question. Because I think it's
important that that in effect get a full
airing.
And let me just suggest to you that
what we've intended to do here,
notwithstanding the memo in opposition of the
trial attorneys, is to create a uniform
standard, one which in effect says if you
follow the directions of this statute -
unlike, for instance, Section 419 of the
Social Service Law, which deals with immunity
for reporting child abuse cases -- what we're
saying here is that if you receive allegations
and you believe they are true, we want you to
3409
report them.
It's your duty to report them. Let
law enforcement make the determination as to
whether in fact those allegations rise to the
level of having committed a crime.
We want you to be something in the
nature of a conduit. We look to you to
receive the information, we look to you to
determine whether or not it fits the
definitions of whether abuse or sexual abuse
has occurred, child abuse or child sexual
abuse has occurred. And then we want you to
pass that on to the next level, which
effectively means law enforcement
investigation. We don't want a chilling
effect on your -- your duty and obligation to
report.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. If the Senator would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes.
3410
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR PATERSON: I can
appreciate that answer, Senator, because
particularly in these types of situations
where reputations are involved, the
possibility that it is easier to stay out of a
situation, to ignore it, to take no action -
it's always more appealing to the individual
when the individual sees that their own
conduct is in many ways going to be monitored
from that point forward. And so I can
understand exactly why you put this in here.
And yet, nevertheless, there have
been situations where someone acted
recklessly, carelessly, maybe even
maliciously, to place upon another allegations
of child abuse where it would certainly be
seen as unfair. And this being the democracy
that we have, I just didn't understand why
there wasn't some way in which the person that
feels victimized does not have any remedy in
the courts.
And so addressing the chilling
effect, I agree with you. But not leaving any
3411
opportunity for any legal action in which an
individual might protect themselves in
court -- can I just ask, Mr. President, if
Senator Saland would explain what the
individual who's been charged in this kind of
a situation's remedy is.
SENATOR SALAND: First let me
suggest to you, again, that the superintendent
is not determining what's true or false. He
or she is merely saying "If the information I
receive fits within the definition of the four
corners of what I have been told is a
violation of this law, it's my obligation to
report it."
There's no subjective standards
here. In fact, the ultimate standard is a
strict liability standard, because that person
can be sentenced for violation of the criminal
law if he or she fails to report.
So I'm not quite sure whether you
could have the kind of mechanism that you
would want that would create the negligence
standard that you're looking for without
having a chilling effect on -- on the very
purpose and essence of this agreement.
3412
I would suggest to you that nothing
would preclude a parent or a person from
bringing a lawsuit. The question would merely
be whether in fact the person who made the
report acted in good faith and whether in fact
the allegations contained in that report rose
to the level of what would be defined as child
sexual abuse or child physical abuse.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson on the bill.
SENATOR PATERSON: By offering us
this legislation, Senator Saland has really
addressed an issue that has for a very long
time been left without a remedy, and that is
that which perfects a motivation not seen
before in the law, one that would really
command that there be action where there is
information relating to child abuse in our
school system.
All we are saying in opposition to
that is that just as there are some sick
3413
members of our society that engage in child
abuse, there have been on occasion those
individuals who, for whatever reasons that
they might have had, would engage in an
attempt to ruin the reputation of others
through bogus charges of child abuse or
anything else that they could find that would
damage the reputation of their colleagues.
In those situations, through this
legislation, there really is not a remedy that
does not have a legal challenge to it based on
this legislation. What we're saying is that
in those situations, the person should still
have the opportunity to make those who would
be the causes of this kind of action liable.
Now, in terms of the regular
reporting of information leading to suspicion
of child abuse, we would suggest that if a
person receives information and then passes it
along, that it would be very well understood
in any legal jurisdiction that they were
really just performing a duty, particularly
with this legislation enhancing the duty that
is placed upon them.
But what we're saying is that if it
3414
could be established that someone went beyond
that duty, that someone not only acted
recklessly but maybe even acted with malice,
that there be a remedy in which the individual
who is accused would have the right to go to
court.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the
sponsor yield for a couple of questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you yield to a question from
Senator Dollinger?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
Senator Saland, I agree with
Senator Paterson's characterization. This
bill has a lot of interesting and, I think,
well-meaning, well-directed material in it.
But let me just ask a couple of
quick questions about definitions. Does this
bill apply to charter schools?
3415
SENATOR SALAND: Yes.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: How do
charter schools fall under the definition of
educational setting if they're not run by the
public schools?
SENATOR SALAND: There is a
particular situation, if you'd take a look -
the C print basically -- you may be looking at
the B print or your notes may be on the B
print. The bill was amended from B to C
specifically to deal with charter schools.
And while you're looking, let me
just come back to something that Senator
Paterson said a bit earlier. There is nobody
who would be precluded from commencing an
action. You are -- you might not be
commencing the action against the individual
who was the superintendent, but the person who
made the allegation to the superintendent, who
merely had to determine whether or not it fell
within the four corners of the definition,
would be liable to any lawsuit that might be
commenced by somebody who felt that they had
been wrongfully accused.
That might not mean that you -- it
3416
might mean that you would not have the deep
pocket that a school district would offer, but
you certainly would have the ability to go
against the person who had made the
allegations that resulted in the
superintendent forwarding the report.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President.
I have the C print -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you
asking Senator Saland to yield to another
question?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I am,
Mr. President. Thank you for reminding me.
I'd ask Senator Saland to continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you yield to another question?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have the C
print of the bill, and I notice that it talks
3417
about educational setting. Did I miss
something? Is there some other description
there that I should be looking for for the
inclusion of charter schools?
SENATOR SALAND: If you look at
Section 10 of the bill. Section 10 of the
bill constitutes, I believe, the substantial
portion of the C amendment. And that provides
for fingerprinting by the board of trustees of
charter schools. And thereafter, they are
subject to anything and everything that every
other school -- whether it's a union free
district, a central school district, a city
school district -- is required.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Again,
through you, Mr. President, just so I make
sure I understand it.
I see the reference to charter
schools. That deals with Section 3, amends
Section 3 of 2854, the Education Law. The
provision that you're adding, which is the
23(b) section, where it talks about
educational setting, simply refers to the
grounds of the public school district and
doesn't refer to charter schools.
3418
I'm -- I'm -- for your reference,
page 3, line 46, which is Section 5, which
defines educational setting, simply refers to
a public school district.
And again, through you,
Mr. President. The fingerprinting
requirement, which you properly point to on
page 8, does deal with the charter schools and
specifically requires them. But -
SENATOR SALAND: Senator
Dollinger, in fairness to you, certainly the
definition should have been amended to refer
specifically to charter schools as well. It
certainly was our intention to include it and
merely was an oversight not including it
there.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just, again,
through you, Mr. President -
SENATOR SALAND: And, by the way,
also, New York City's law is similarly
applicable to charter schools.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Again,
through you, Mr. President -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
3419
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it also
your intention to reach out to other private
schools that are not -- that although they're
chartered by the Board of Regents, they would
not fall within the definition of public
schools?
SENATOR SALAND: Well, we held
roundtables with representatives of charter
schools throughout New York. They expressed
some interest. They basically determined that
they wanted part of the legislation but not
all of the legislation. But we told them that
no, we could not really give them that type of
a presentation, that they were either in for
all of it or they weren't in at all.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President, if Senator Saland
would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
3420
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The other
problem that I -- the other question I have
deals with contract employees in the school
setting. As you know, many school systems
contract out their bus service, they contract
out their cafeteria service, they can contract
out their bookstore service.
My question is, does this apply to
those employees who would not necessarily be
determined to be employees? Now, you've got a
reference in there about "directly or through
contract whereby such services involve direct
student contact." Are you talking about those
kinds of employees who would be involved in
the contracting out -
SENATOR SALAND: As you're
probably aware, school bus employees are
already covered. School drivers are already
covered, not necessarily other
school-bus-related employees.
Cafeteria services, if they were
contracted out, would be subject to this
3421
provision. Being contracted out, they have
direct contact with the students, they would
be required to undergo this as well.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President -
SENATOR SALAND: The fellow or
gal who might come in to service the Xerox
machine once during the course of the school
year would not be required to be -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right.
Again, through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there
authority in other parts of the Education Law
for the fingerprinting of those contract
employees as well -- school bus drivers,
school bus attendants, cafeteria workers -
even though they're not public employees?
SENATOR SALAND: My assumption is
that -- and it's merely an assumption -- that
3422
in the case of school bus drivers, yes, the
authority is there.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. The -
again, through you, Mr. President, if Senator
Saland will continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: What
provision is there in this bill for what
lawyers would call a probable cause
determination; that is, a threshold
determination about the validity of the
allegations prior to triggering this process?
Is there any point at which someone
could say, "Gee, Rick Dollinger is a chronic
complainer about this, he was going to take a
difficult math test and he triggered this all
off. And it didn't -- or a quick
investigation shows that there was absolutely
no truth to it, and it appears to be truth
beyond a compelling basis that there's no
3423
reason to go forward. What do we do?"
SENATOR SALAND: Well, let me go
back to some of the responses I had to Senator
Paterson's questions. There is no such
standard. There wasn't intended to be any
such standard.
Our purpose was to create, in
effect, a conduit which would be required to
report to law enforcement, and law enforcement
would make that determination. Law
enforcement would determine whether or not
there was probable cause.
All we wanted was these untrained
school personnel to be able to identify,
through forms that would be promulgated and
through regulations that would be promulgated,
whether or not the allegations fit within
whatever the definitions were of child sexual
abuse or child abuse.
And those definitions are all
criminal -- virtually all criminal
definitions, either coming out of the assault
sections of the Penal Law, Article 130 of the
Penal Law, Article 263 of the Penal Law, or
the endangering the welfare of a child
3424
section. So we think those -- the language
with respect to what constitutes abuse has
been pretty well tuned, pretty finely tuned,
and comports well with existing criminal law.
We don't want people who are not,
by training, either investigators or
prosecutors determining whether or not there
is sufficient basis for the law to intervene,
the criminal side of the law -- the prosecutor
or the police in whatever municipality it may
be. We merely want them to say "What has been
presented to me, according to this statute,
constitutes allegations that would mean this
child has been, for example, sexually abused.
I therefore must report to the parent and to
law enforcement."
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: So in essence
3425
what this bill does is this criminalizes all
allegations of sexual abuse in the school
setting. It eliminates the discretion of the
superintendent or the vice principal or any
other administrator to make a threshold
determination that it wasn't child abuse.
SENATOR SALAND: By definition,
the conduct -- child abuse, child sexual
abuse -- is criminal.
What we're saying is we don't want
school personnel to have the discretion in
effect to sweep an investigation away, to in
effect make it disappear. What we want them
to do is to report it to the people who are
trained to determine whether or not a crime
has in fact occurred and whether it should be
prosecuted.
We don't want them engaging in
silent resignations. We don't want them
telling parents, "This is too much to put your
child through. Forget about it." It's
happened. It's been testified to me that it's
happened.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President, if Senator Saland
3426
will continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: As you may
know, Senator Saland, I've done a lot of work
in this area, representing school districts in
exactly this problem. My question is, what do
you do if the grand jury dismisses the case,
renders a no bill, and then the school
district, however, would still -- as you and I
have discussed a number of times, when you
move from the beyond-a-reasonable-doubt
standard down to the preponderance-of-evidence
standard, the school district would still have
a basis, under the preponderance-of-evidence
standard, to move to force a resignation or to
bring a prosecution against a teacher for
conduct unbecoming. It may not be a crime,
but it would nonetheless be conduct
unbecoming.
By virtue of this, by having gone
3427
through the grand jury process, by virtue of
the dismissal of the criminal complaint or a
finding of no bill on the criminal complaint,
don't you prejudice the school district's
ability to bring pressure on that employee to
remove them at that point? Won't they -
won't all the cards -- suddenly the deck shift
to the other side, to the defense?
SENATOR SALAND: On the contrary,
what we provide for here is that where a
determination is made that there will not be a
criminal prosecution, there is a summary of
the charges which will be provided back to the
superintendent.
The purpose of that would be for
the superintendent then to make a decision -
and the school board -- as to whether or not
to bring a Part 83 hearing, which gets into
the moral character issues which you have
raised. Which is not a
beyond-a-reasonable-doubt standard.
Obviously, it's an administrative hearing, not
a criminal hearing. But it may well be that
something has occurred that can't be proven
beyond a reasonable doubt but goes to the
3428
moral turpitude or moral character, more
appropriately, of the teacher.
And that data, in a summary form,
would be available to the school district.
And if they determine they should then go
forward under Part 83, they could.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the
bill, briefly, Mr. President. First of all -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: First of all,
I want to thank Senator Saland for his
comments about this bill in response to my
questions.
I think this is an area where again
we're doing something that would be designed
to protect our children. I'm not opposed to
the notion of when serious allegations of
criminal conduct, whether it's sexual abuse or
physical abuse -- or, for that matter, any
other criminal conduct in the school district
is brought to the attention of the proper
authorities.
I have a concern -- it's not enough
to vote against this bill, but I have a
3429
concern about that shifting burden of proof
and how it's going to be met and how it's all
going to come out in the wash, whether the
criminalization or the forwarding to criminal
investigation authorities will remove a
tremendous amount of discretion on behalf of
the school district and may actually deter the
rigid enforcement of a school district's
guidelines with respect to teacher conduct or
other employee conduct.
And I know both of us have sort of
used the Article 83 standard, teacher conduct.
This bill applies to everybody, and we
certainly shouldn't single out teachers.
Because, in fact, it can be support personnel,
it can be people in the cafeteria that are
equally as guilty and equally as at fault.
My suggestions would be, really,
drafting. I would go back and tighten up the
language on the charter schools to make sure
the bill applies there, since that's our clear
intention.
I also would just offer one other
draftsman question. And that is with respect
to the confidentiality of records, you point
3430
out in the bill, properly, that these will be
protected from disclosure by law in this
state, by -- as permitted by law or if a
subpoena is produced. I would suggest the
other scenario we'd have to look to is making
this available to other states. Because often
what happens is the teacher simply is -- gets
into one of the silent resignations here in
New York, departs for Pennsylvania or Vermont,
and they're left wondering what the records
might be -- teacher, employee, anyone.
And I think it would be appropriate
to have some kind of interstate communication.
We're in an age of computers, we're in an age
where information can be passed. And the
problem that you have of teachers leaving one
district or employees leaving one district and
showing up in another is just as readily
apparent with all other types of employees.
So I'm going to vote in favor of
the bill. I have some concerns about it, but
I think that it's moving in the right
direction. I hope that this either passes in
total or goes to a conference committee so
that those details can be worked out.
3431
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
Senator Duane, for future
reference, it's easier for the staff here to
note members voting if they're from their
seats. And the rules do call for voting from
your seats.
However, I'm sure they have your
notation at this point. Just for future
reference, Senator.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm so tall, I
don't know how they could miss me.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 36 are
Senators Connor, Duane, Paterson, Rosado,
3432
Sampson, Santiago, and Schneiderman.
Ayes, 47. Nays, 7.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the controversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
Mr. President, is there housekeeping?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes,
there is.
SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
recognize Senator Fuschillo?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Returning
to the order of motions and resolutions.
The Chair recognizes Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
On page 44, I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 932, Senate
Print 4826, and ask that said bill retain its
place on third reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments to Calendar Number 932 are received
and adopted. The bill will retain its place
3433
on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I move to recommit Senate Print
Number 2754, Calendar Number 433, on order of
third reading, to the Committee on Education.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
Number 433 is recommitted to the Committee on
Education.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could return to reports of standing
committees, I believe there's a report of the
Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be
read.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Returning
to the order of reports of standing
committees.
There is a report of the Rules
Committee at the desk. The Secretary will
read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
from the Committee on Rules, reports the
following bills:
3434
Senate Print 85, by Senator Alesi,
an act to amend the Correction Law;
Senate Print 170, by Senator
Larkin, an act to amend the General Municipal
Law and others;
672, by Senator DeFrancisco, an act
to authorize the New York State Urban
Development Corporation;
810, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
812, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
1198, by Senator LaValle, an act in
relation to the Long Island Suburban Highway
Improvement Program;
1206, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;
1226, by Senator Wright, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
1982, by Senator Montgomery, an act
to amend the Penal Law;
1993, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
2041, by Senator Marchi, an act
authorizing the City of New York;
3435
2348, by Senator Sampson, an act
authorizing the City of New York;
2674A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
2825, by Senator Meier, an act to
authorize the City School District of the City
of Potsdam;
3175, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
3237, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Social Services Law;
3250A, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
3327, by Senator McGee, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
3525, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Election Law;
3589A, by Senator Libous, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
4608, by Senator Rath, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
5328, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend Chapter 338 of the laws of 1998;
And 5725, by Senator Morahan, an
act to amend the Education Law.
3436
All bills ordered direct for third
reading.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
move to accept the report of the Rules
Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion to
accept the report of the Rules Committee. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Rules
report is accepted. The bills are ordered
directly to third reading.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
on the Rules report could we please take up
Calendar Number 1088, Senate 5725, by Senator
Morahan.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1088, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5725,
an act to amend the Education Law, in relation
3437
to extending.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Morahan, an explanation of Calendar Number
1088, Senate Print 5725, has been requested by
the Acting Minority Leader, Senator Paterson.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
This is a bill that has been in
this house prior to today. It's a bill
between two school districts that will allow
those districts to go into a 15-year contract
as opposed to a five-year contract.
In addition, the sending district,
which is a land-poor district, would be
normally entitled to 60 percent reimbursement
for a capital project. The receiving
district, or wealthier district, only gets
reimbursed at the rate of 10 percent. This
bill would reimburse the receiving district at
the rate of the sending district's
reapportionment -- reimbursement rate.
The town of -- the district of
Tuxedo takes in -- 80 percent of the high
3438
school students in the district of Tuxedo come
from Greenwood Lake. Greenwood Lake has no
high school, they only have K through 8th
grade. Therefore, they have to send their
children to Tuxedo to be educated for high
school.
Tuxedo now, in order to house those
pupils, because of their ever-increasing
population, will have to go into capital
projects and build a new building and build a
new construction program. They would like to
have -- instead of five years, which is the
normal contract arrangement between two
districts, they'd rather have 15 years, so
that they could be committed to the
amortization of the cost of the project over
the life of the contract.
The only statewide implication
would be that feature of the bill. This is
the only school district in the state wherein
the sending district has a greater population
than the receiving district.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
3439
Mr. President.
I'd like to welcome my new
colleague, Senator Morahan, to the Senate and
ask him if he'd like to yield for a couple of
questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Morahan, do you yield to a question from -
SENATOR MORAHAN: I will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, how
many districts are similar to Tuxedo in the
fact that they might have -- only be able to
provide the service K through 8 and would
then, as in this case, have to send the
children to another district, like Greenwood
Lake, for a high school? And how many
districts around the state would -
SENATOR MORAHAN: Any other
districts? I don't know the number.
But this is unique in that this is
the only district, the sending district, where
their children are 80 percent of the
population of the school that receives them.
That's unique.
3440
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very
much. Mr. President, if Senator Morahan would
yield for another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Morahan, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, sir.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
heard a question that Senator Dollinger asked
of Senator Saland earlier related to the issue
of charter schools. Would this legislation
have any -- in any aspect would it relate or
affect a charter school district?
SENATOR MORAHAN: No, Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR MORAHAN: I'll continue
to yield.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. I see Senator Morahan is ahead
of the process. I didn't even get to ask him
if he wanted to yield.
3441
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you
want the Senator to yield to another question,
Senator Paterson?
SENATOR PATERSON: He's already
yielded.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Morahan, do you yield to another question?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: What I would
wonder is just in this specific area, what
would be the total cost of establishing this
reimbursement rate, moving it from 10 percent
to what would be the sending district? What
would that cost us as a state?
SENATOR MORAHAN: We can't
determine that, Senator, because the school
project has not started. It may be a $5
million building project. If that would be
the case, it would be 60 percent of the $5
million project.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Excuse me,
3442
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The floor
is yours, Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
The floor is now yours, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
SENATOR MORAHAN: May I recognize
two people from home?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you.
SENATOR SKELOS: Congratulations,
Senator Morahan.
(Applause.)
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could just -- well, if there's any
3443
housekeeping, why don't we do that before we
have a little bit more business to take care
of.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have
one motion, Senator Skelos.
We'll return to the order of
motions and resolutions, and ask -- recognize
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
On page 44, I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 922, Senate
Print Number 5171, and ask that said bill
retain its place on third reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments to Calendar Number 922 are received
and adopted, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: With the consent
of the Minority, if we could call up Calendar
Number 391, Senate 1502A, by Senator Padavan.
3444
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 391.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
391, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1502A,
an act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to mental health services.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
Mr. President.
Bill 391 is the calendar number?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 391
has been requested by Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR PADAVAN: As of this
date, we have a group, seven by number, of
state treatment programs that are both
certified and regulated by the Office of
Mental Health and the State Education
Department. And what this bill does is it
enhances or solidifies the funding stream that
would go to those programs.
These are largely children who end
up being mainstreamed into the regular
3445
educational environment, either in special ed
or -- or perhaps not, but require, in terms of
these programs, special treatment at a very
early age both in terms of their educational
needs and their -- dealing with their needs
that relate to a disability.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes,
Mr. President. Just because I'm -- this bill
is -- again, through you, Mr. President, if
Senator Padavan will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Padavan, do you yield to a question from
Senator Dollinger?
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: This bill
would allow the mental health services
provided by the free-standing day-treatment
programs to be reimbursed under the Medicaid
system; is that correct?
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
3446
And, Senator, just for your
information, we passed this bill earlier in
the session. At the request of OMH, we have
made an amendment to it on line 15 between the
original bill. That's why it's being brought
up again today.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: So this is -
again, through you, Mr. President, just to
make sure -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Padavan, will you yield to another question
from Senator Dollinger?
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: We amended
this bill at the request of OMH -- we'd passed
it previously -- to carve out this -
SENATOR PADAVAN: That's correct.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- so that
these services can be provided -
SENATOR PADAVAN: -- continue to
be provided in the manner in which they're
provided.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Even if
3447
they're under a Medicaid HMO?
SENATOR PADAVAN: That's correct.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
SENATOR SKELOS: Any other
housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
none.
SENATOR SKELOS: On behalf of
Senator Leibell, there will be a Civil Service
and Pensions meeting in Room 801 of the
Legislative Office Building at 5 p.m. this
evening.
And there being no further
business, I move we adjourn until Wednesday,
June 2nd, at 3:00 p.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
3448
will be a Civil Service and Pensions Committee
meeting in Room 801, Room 801, at 5:00 p.m.
this afternoon.
Without objection, the Senate
stands adjourned until tomorrow, June 2nd,
Wednesday, at 3:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:01 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)