Regular Session - June 8, 1999
4067
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE
STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
June 8, 1999
11:03 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
4068
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will come to order and members take
their chairs, staff find their places.
I'd ask everybody in the chamber to
rise and join with me in saying the Pledge of
Allegiance to the Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You may
be seated.
In the absence of clergy, may we
bow our heads in a moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Monday, June 7th, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, June 6th,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing
no objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
4069
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I
believe that there is a privileged resolution
at the desk that I have sponsored. I would
ask that it be read in its entirety and move
for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the privileged resolution
by Senator Bruno in its entirety.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno,
Legislative Resolution Number 1708, honoring
Marilyn R. Lance, an elementary teacher at
West Sand Lake Elementary School of the
Averill Park Central School District, upon the
occasion of her selection as New York State
Teacher of the Year.
WHEREAS, New York State's
commitment to education is unparalleled, its
4070
history and stature is secured by the
superlative caliber of its educational
professionals and the students they inspire;
It is the practice of this
Legislative Body to take note of and publicly
acknowledge individuals of remarkable
integrity and character whose endeavors have
enhanced the growth of education in the great
Empire State;
State Education Commissioner
Richard P. Mills announced that Marilyn Lance,
an elementary teacher at West Sand Lake
Elementary School of the Averill Park Central
School District, Averill Park, New York, has
been selected the New York State Teacher of
the Year; she was presented with a certificate
of recognition by Regents Chancellor Carl T.
Hayden in a ceremony before the Board of
Regents; Marilyn Lance is the 30th recipient
of this award;
This award is highly selective and
is a testimony to Mrs. Lance's educational
philosophy, her vision for the future, her
performance in the classroom, and her tireless
efforts to help each student succeed.
4071
Marilyn Lance has served as an
elementary teacher at West Sand Lake
Elementary School since 1972, teaching first
and second grades, and for a last four years,
an innovative two-room, combination grade 1/2
with inclusion of special needs students;
Marilyn Lance received her
bachelor's degree in elementary education from
The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio, in
1969, and is known as an exemplary educator
who uses innovative, hands-on methods to
enhance students' educational experience;
The New York State Teacher of the
Year is chosen by a screening committee which
reviews all nominations and selects ten
semifinalists; five finalists are then chosen
by a selection committee and interviewed prior
to the final selection; both the screening and
selection committee decisions are made through
a process that involves parents, students,
teachers, administrators, community members
and business representatives;
The Teacher of the Year program is
affiliated with the National Teachers of the
Year program and is sponsored by a consortium
4072
of leading educational associations under the
direction of the Council of Chief State School
Officers; the program is the oldest and most
prestigious teacher recognition in the United
States; corporate sponsorship for the National
Teacher of the Year program is provided by the
Bell Atlantic Foundation, AETNA, and
Scholastic, Inc.;
WHEREAS, Throughout her career,
Marilyn Lance has served as an unfailing
advocate for children's education, her
distinguished career has been characterized by
an impressive commitment, an unbridled
enthusiasm, and an uncompromising standard of
excellence in all her endeavors; now,
therefore, be it
RESOLVED, That this Legislative
Body pause in its deliberations to honor
Marilyn R. Lance upon the occasion of her
designation as "New York State Teacher of the
Year"; and be it further
RESOLVED, That a copy of this
Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to Marilyn R. Lance.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
4073
recognizes Senator Bruno on the resolution.
SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you,
Mr. President, my colleagues.
I am proud to join with the State
Education Department and the New York State
Teachers in recognizing Marilyn Lance as
Teacher of the Year. This is an honor that is
not designated easily. We've heard in the
resolution many of the accomplishments in
Marilyn Lance's life, when she has dedicated
her life to teaching young people.
In her class, she uses an
innovative approach combining first and second
grades with children with special needs
integrated in the classroom. And she has
competed against every teacher in this state,
and we have excellence in teaching in this
state, so this is a designation and an honor
that doesn't come easily.
I am proud that Marilyn Lance is a
neighbor in the 43rd Senatorial District,
living with her husband, David, in Averill
Park and has been there, as we heard, for 27
years. So all of us can be proud that we have
an individual that has made a lifetime
4074
commitment to helping youngsters achieve their
greatest potential in life.
So we're indebted to Marilyn for
all of her good works presently that take her
to this honor, and we wish her well as she
goes on now to compete nationally. And we are
confident that Marilyn will be designated the
National Teacher of the Year, and she will be,
in our minds and in our hearts, the best in
the United States as well as in New York
State.
So, Marilyn, and to your husband,
Dave, and to all of those that support you, we
congratulate you in this chamber and wish you
well in the rest of your life.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
member wishing to speak on the resolution?
Hearing none, the question is on
the resolution. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
4075
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
resolution is unanimously adopted.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
at this time if we could adopt the Resolution
Calendar in its entirety.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the adoption of the Resolution
Calendar. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Resolution Calendar is adopted.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
are there any other motions?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you,
Mr. President. Amendments are offered to the
following Third Reading Calendar.
4076
On behalf of Senator Goodman, page
number 17, Calendar Number 472, Senate Print
1105.
On behalf of Senator Trunzo, page
number 20, Calendar Number 568, Senate Print
4250.
On behalf of Senator Goodman, page
number 47, Calendar Number 1025, Senate Print
4282.
On behalf of Senator Farley, page
number 49, Calendar Number 1040, Senate Print
3551.
On behalf of Senator Skelos, page
number 52, Calendar Number 1124, Senate Print
4337.
Mr. President, I now move that
these bill retain their place on the order of
third reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted and the
bills will retain their place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President -
I'm sorry.
4077
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have
one more motion, I believe, Senator Skelos.
SENATOR McGEE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
wish to call up bill Print Number 2542,
recalled from the Assembly, which is now at
the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator Lack,
Senate Print 2542, an act to amend the
Insurance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4078
McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Lack, I now offer the
following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
are received and adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Are there any
substitutions to be made?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
are.
SENATOR SKELOS: Please make
them, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the substitutions.
THE SECRETARY: On page 14,
Senator Marcellino moves to discharge, from
the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 8113,
and substitute it for the identical third
reading, 408.
On page 33, Senator Leibell moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill 6676A, and substitute it for the
identical third reading, 814.
On page 53, Senator Goodman moves
4079
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill 7954, and substitute it for the
identical third reading, 1186.
On page 54, Senator Bonacic moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill 7157A, and substitute it for the
identical third reading, 1192.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
substitutions are ordered.
Senator Skelos, that brings us to
the calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
proceed with the noncontroversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
82, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1592A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal
Procedure Law, the Executive Law, the
Correction Law, and the Public Health Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
4080
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
223, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2094A, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on January 1st.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
293, by Member of the Assembly Vitaliano,
Assembly Print 2333, an act to amend the
Retirement and Social Security Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
4081
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
387, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3304A,
an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
extending.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
481, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1196, an
act to amend the Election Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4082
491, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4438, an
act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
505, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 745, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
4083
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
592, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1656A, an
act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
597, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3158B,
an act to amend the General Municipal Law and
the Retirement and Social Security Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect July 1st.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
4084
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
598, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4114, an
act to amend Chapter 666 of the Laws of 1990.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect September 1st.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
607, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3923, an
act to amend the Civil Service Law, in
relation to deputy sheriffs.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4085
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
643, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 674A, an
act to amend the Family Court Act.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
666, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4287A, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
4086
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
706, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4603 -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
766, by Senator Lachman, Senate Print 2966A,
an act to amend the Railroad Law and the
Public Authorities Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
801, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1839, an
act to amend the Education Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
4087
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
802, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 2612, an
act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law and Chapter 511 of the Laws of
1988.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
813, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5028, an
4088
act to amend the Civil Service Law, in
relation to the payment of a hazardous duty.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
815, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5446A,
an act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
816, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5511, an
act to authorize employees of the Police
Department and the Fire Department of the City
of Norwich.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
4089
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
820, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4175A, an
act to amend the Insurance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4090
824, by Member of the Assembly Magee, Assembly
Print 6547A, an act to amend the Agricultural
and Markets Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
930, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
4665A, an act to amend the Domestic Relations
Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
4091
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If I could
interrupt, there will be a meeting of the
Finance Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Senate
Finance Committee, immediate meeting of the
Senate Finance Committee in the Majority
Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting
of the Senate Finance Committee in the
Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
The Secretary will continue to read
the noncontroversial calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1004, by Member of the Assembly Sanders,
Assembly Print 741, an act to amend the
Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
4092
act shall take effect September 1st.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. On
Calendar Number 1004, Senator Wright recorded
in the negative. Ayes, 51. Nays, 1.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1006, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1231B,
an act to amend the Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
4093
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1037, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 5193,
an act to create the Heermance Memorial
Library District.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1072, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2040, an
act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1098, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1993,
an act to amend the Penal Law.
4094
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1127, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 4552, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
4095
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1138, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5568A,
an act in relation to legalizing and
validating action of the Town of Bolton.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1141, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 733,
an act to amend -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4096
1150, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4471A,
an act in relation to enacting the Christopher
Gardner Memorial Act.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1162, by Senator Rath, Senate -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The bill will be laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1166, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5567, an
act to amend the Executive Law.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1171, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5632,
an act to authorize the Town of Gates.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
4097
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1179, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 726, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the
Public Health Law, and the Family Court Act.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1180, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 937,
an act to amend the Correction Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4098
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1181, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3906,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to the powers of the State of New
York Mortgage Agency.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1182, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3907A,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
4099
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1183, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print
3922B, an act to amend Chapter 272 of the Laws
of 1991.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4100
1184, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4010A,
an act to amend the Tax Law.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1185, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4018,
an act to amend the Education Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1186, substituted earlier today by the
Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print
7954, an act to amend the Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
4101
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1187, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4154A,
an act to amend the Insurance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1188, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4622, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law and
the Environmental Conservation Law.
4102
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1189, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 46 -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1190, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4714,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1191, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4724, an
4103
act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
1. Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1192, substituted earlier today -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
THE SECRETARY: -- by Member of
the Assembly Lopez, Assembly Print 7157A, an
act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1193, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5073, an
act in relation to requiring the Department of
Motor Vehicles.
4104
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1194, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
5401, an act to amend the Environmental
Conservation Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
4105
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1195, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5552, an
act to amend the Court of Claims Act.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1196, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5572,
an act to amend the Election Law.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1197, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5604, an
act to amend the Education Law.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
4106
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1198, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5623A, an
act to authorize approval of certain
transportation contracts.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1199, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5633, an
act to amend the Penal Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4107
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1200, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5641, an
act to amend the Real Property Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1201, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5663, an
act to authorize the Lubavitch Center to file
an application for a real property tax
exemption.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
4108
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1202, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5682, an
act authorizing the conveyance of land by the
South Glens Falls Central School District.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1203, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
5688, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
Law, in relation to the distribution of fines.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
4109
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1204, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 5706,
an act to amend the Penal Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go to the controversial calendar
4110
and start with Calendar Number 1171, by
Senator Maziarz.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: I was hoping to
get unanimous consent to vote in the negative
on Number 1204, Senate 5706.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator Duane
will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 1204.
The Secretary will read Calendar
Number 1171 of the controversial calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1171, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5632,
an act to authorize the Town of Gates to
discontinue the use of certain lands as park
lands.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
Senator Dollinger has a question on this bill.
He's in the Finance Committee. We're
attempting to get him out. Maybe if we, with
the consent of the Majority, could call up
4111
another bill and come back to this in a
second.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos, what's your pleasure?
Lay the bill aside temporarily.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 387,
by Senator Bonacic.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 387, by
Senator Bonacic.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
387, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3304A,
an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
extending the authorization granted to the
County of Greene.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Breslin.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Through you,
Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for a
question?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you
yield to a question, Senator Bonacic?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do, Mr.
4112
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Senator
Bonacic, can you tell us whether or not
there's a home rule message attached to this
legislation?
SENATOR BONACIC: Senator, I
would never put a bill on this floor unless
there was a home rule message. There was. It
was received in May of '99.
SENATOR BRESLIN: What date in
May?
SENATOR BONACIC: What date? It
was dated May 21, '99, but I don't know when
it was actually -- it's been received here.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you very
much, Senator Bonacic.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
4113
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
1. Senator Gentile recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Senator
Dollinger is here, so if we could call up
Senator Maziarz's bill, 1171.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1171, by
Senator Maziarz.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1171, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5632,
an act to authorize the Town of Gates to
discontinue the use of certain lands as park
lands.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. I appreciate it. I've had a
conversation with Senator Maziarz. I
understand the terms of this bill. I'm going
to vote against it, largely for reasons it
affects part of the community. I've discussed
4114
it with Senator Maziarz, and I appreciate his
concern in discussing the bill with me.
I think there are always concerns
when you swap park land, and this is one of
those cases where for, I think, a number of
reasons, I'm just going to vote against the
bill. So I appreciate that opportunity.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negative and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, while I was out of the chamber in
the Finance Committee, Number 387 was
4115
considered by the house. I would ask
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on that bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -
hearing no objection, Senator Dollinger will
be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
387.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I
was hoping I could get unanimous consent to
also be recorded in the negative on Numbers
1185 and 1200.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator Duane
will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 1185 and 1200.
But 1200 was laid aside, Senator
Duane. And so was Calendar Number 1185.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you call up Calendar Number 1192, by
Senator Bonacic.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4116
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1192, by
Senator Bonacic.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1192, substituted earlier today by Member of
the Assembly Lopez, Assembly Print 7157A, an
act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
after rereading this bill, I've decided this
is an excellent bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
4117
SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
call up Calendar Number 1184, by Senator
Seward.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1184 on
the controversial calendar, by Senator Seward.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1184, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4010A,
an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
hotel and motel taxes.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seward, an explanation has been requested, I
believe.
Who requested the explanation?
SENATOR PATERSON: I did.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson. By Senator Paterson.
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
President, this -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seward, if you'd wait just a minute, we have a
number of members who are entering the
chamber. It appears to be getting a little
noisy. So that we can have the benefit of
4118
your explanation, we'll let the members take
their seats and staff take their places.
Can we have a little order in the
chamber, please? Members take their seats.
Sergeant, would you make sure the
door is closed, please. Thank you.
Senator Seward, for an explanation.
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes,
Mr. President, this legislation before us has
been requested by the Otsego County Board of
Representatives. We have a home rule request.
And it extends the -- their authority to
impose an occupancy tax, which they have had
since 1989.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson, the floor is yours.
SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator
Seward would yield for a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seward, do you yield to a question from
Senator Paterson?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: We're doing
4119
these extenders and we're extending this every
year, Senator Seward. I was just wondering,
was there any thought to making this just a
permanent -- I'm sorry, this is a permanent
situation. But I'm wondering if we would just
extend it temporarily rather than making it
permanent, as we have done in the past.
SENATOR SEWARD: Well,
Mr. President, the bill has been amended to
extend this taxing authority for Otsego County
for a period of three years.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. I just observed -- and I said
it in reverse -- that we have a number of
these types of taxes that we impose. And in
all other cases, we've done them in a
temporary fashion. I just found it a little
unique that we're making this permanent.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
4120
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
Before we do that, Senator Morahan,
why do you rise?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
I'd like unanimous consent to have my vote
cast in the negative on Calendar Number 1171.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Morahan will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1171.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up, on the first page of
the active list, Calendar Number 643, by
Senator Rath.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section of
4121
Calendar Number 643, by Senator Rath, on the
controversial calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
643, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 674A, an
act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
to definition of a person in need of
supervision.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson has asked for an explanation, Senator
Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Mr. President,
Senator Paterson. This bill is one that has
had a very strange odyssey through the years.
It has been around for longer than some people
can remember, as an attempt has been made to
correct a constitutional infirmity that
provides different age limitations for males
and females in connection with PINS petitions.
Under this bill, any person under
18 would be subject to a PINS petition if the
person does not attend school until age 18, a
person who's incorrigible or ungovernable, or
violated the Penal Law in relation to unlawful
possession of marijuana.
4122
The current law, as applied, allows
for PINS petitions for those under 16. But
parents of course have the responsibility for
those children until they are age 18. There
has been a huge movement of parents that has
come together in New York State. It's an item
that I've received more mail on than almost
anything else that I can refer to.
And I would point to you the fact
that maybe six or eight weeks ago, the group
of advocates, the parents who are taking an
interest in this bill, were in Albany and
brought to our attention, in one case, a young
daughter, who was age 18 or 19 by then, and it
was the first night she had spent in her
parents' house in over two years, and couldn't
say enough about the need for her parents
having been able to bring her back to them
through some measure other than persuasion.
Parents at this point have no
recourse, no one to go to when their child is
incorrigible and refusing to come home,
although of course the parents still have
responsibility for them. This gives the
parents and the courts a tool to use when
4123
children are at their most impressionable age.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: I just have
one brief question, Mr. President, if Senator
Rath would -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Rath, do you yield to a question from Senator
Paterson?
SENATOR RATH: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
yesterday we passed a piece of legislation
authorizing the Department of Criminal Justice
Services to do a study as to whether or not we
should raise the age of persons in need of
supervision. And then here today, we're sort
of consenting to raise the age without
reference to the study.
I just wanted to know if this was
in order or if you had a suggestion as to how
we're going to work this out in the end.
SENATOR RATH: Senator Paterson,
last year this bill passed this house and it
4124
did not pass the Assembly. We do have an
Assembly sponsor for this bill, Assemblyman
Kaufman.
What passed yesterday was a piece
that when people can't quite get behind this
bill by saying there's -- it's going to be too
costly, that we're not going to be able to
afford it in New York State, we put the pilot
bill in place. And I believe, frankly, if we
pass both bills, I don't know that we will see
that both bills will get signed. I think
we've got to do everything we can to offer
assistance and to take down any roadblocks.
And the fact that the question of
cost was there, we put the pilot bill in to
say, okay, if you still have a roadblock and
you can't support Rath-Kaufman, then support
the pilot bill, let's get some information
back and then get this one back. If you can
support this one, as all the parents and
advocates and all the police agencies, the
court officers -- there isn't anyone in that
grouping of people that is not behind this
bill except, quote, for the cost, unquote.
But we heard from an advocate at
4125
Assemblyman Green's hearing the other day, and
it was from Staten Island. It was the head of
the Tough Love organization from Staten
Island, who indicated -- and I have to call
this person -- that in their discussions with
the Governor, that this was something very
high on his priority list and if this bill
passes, the money will be there to implement
the court and the other kinds of social
programs that need to fill in in order to help
the parents and the law enforcement agencies
get to these children.
Because, you know, it's "pay me now
or pay me later." I mean, if we don't take
care of the prevention efforts and the best
efforts that we can for these young people
between age 16 or 18, we're going to have them
in the prison system, and in some cases there
for the rest of their lives. So it's "pay me
now or pay me later."
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery, why do you rise?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. President,
I would just like to ask one question of
Senator Rath.
4126
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Rath, do you yield to a question?
SENATOR RATH: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
Rath, I note that -- I believe it was last
week or maybe a couple of weeks ago, two of
the Assembly members had a hearing on the
whole issue of the child welfare and where
that stands. Are we moving to correct the
block grant, the problem with the underfunding
vis-a-vis the block grant in -- or the child
welfare block grant, so that in the event this
legislation passes, we're better able to
address the funding problem?
SENATOR RATH: Yes, Senator
Montgomery. Your question refers to, I
believe, Assemblyman Green's hearing last
week.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes,
that's -
SENATOR RATH: And I believe he
has a price tag on that of $50 million or
$55 million. I'm not sure that's how much it
4127
is. We've had some indications from some of
the smaller counties who are able to get ahold
of their demographic information in relation
to how many young people are already in PINS
programs, how many young people they have,
what the court costs, what the police costs,
what the additional agency costs would be to
process these young people through their
systems.
It has been way below what we could
have anticipated ourselves. But that's not
as -- as clear as what the information will be
as this pilot that we passed yesterday.
And so in my opinion, if we pass
everything that we can and we say to the
powers that be, in relation to signing
legislation and implementing legislation, we
want this taken care of, we want you to find
out where the money is, we want you to use the
best uses of money -- and if we have to indeed
put some new dollars into it after this pilot
has shown us how much, then let's put it
there, because we don't want to lose these
young people.
We want every resource that we can
4128
bring to bear -- and that their families and
that the police agencies and the courts want
to bring to bear. We want those brought to
bear so that by the time some headstrong,
irresponsible, dazed or crazed young person
between age 16 and 18 comes to their senses,
hopefully, at age 18, we've given them every
chance that the system can give them to
straighten up and make the best of their lives
that they can.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
Thank you, Senator Rath.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
4129
with the consent of the Minority, Calendar
Number 206, by Senator Hannon, was
inadvertently kept off the active list for
today. If you could call that up at this
time.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 206. It's
on the members' Third Reading Calendar, page
9.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
206, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2937A, an
act to amend the Public Health Law and the
Insurance Law, in relation to access to
end-of-life care.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Montgomery, why do you
4130
rise?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President, I would like unanimous consent to
be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1098.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1098.
Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, if I could also have unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative, on
Calendar Number 1184.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1184.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Gentile, why do you rise?
SENATOR GENTILE: Yes,
Mr. President, I too ask for unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 1184.
4131
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Gentile will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1184.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would Calendar Number 706 and Calendar Number
813, would you lay them aside for the day,
please?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
Number 706 is laid aside for the day.
Calendar Number 813 is laid aside for the day.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules
Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
Room 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules
Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
Room 332.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
4132
would you please call up Calendar Number 1196,
by Senator Maltese.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1196.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1196, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5572,
an act to amend the Election Law, in relation
to the term of the chairman of the State Board
of Elections.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
please.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Maltese, an explanation of Calendar Number
1196 has been requested by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
this legislation relates to the term of the
chairman of the State Board of Elections and
provides that on the first day of December of
each year, the commissioner who has been
serving as the vice chairman of the state
board shall become the chairman, and the
chairman shall become the vice chairman.
Therefore, they would switch places.
The existing law is that it was
4133
intended to provide for equal terms as
chairman for the two commissioners appointed
by the Governor upon the recommendation of the
Legislature.
Now, one commissioner is appointed
by the Governor on the recommendation of the
Majority Leader; the other commissioner is
appointed by the Governor on the
recommendation of the Speaker. The two other
members are appointed by the two major -- the
chairmen of the two major political parties.
The original intention in 1974,
when this was adopted, was for the two terms
to rotate and each party having an opportunity
for their respective recommendation to serve a
full year. I don't know who negotiated this
in 1974, but they didn't take a close look at
it, and as a result, the Democratic member has
in the past, for the past 24 years, served 17
months, and the Republican member has served 7
months. And this situation has continued for
24 years.
And what this legislation seeks to
do is to correct that inequity.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4134
Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President,
first, let me correct my esteemed colleague.
One of the members is appointed on
the recommendation of the leaders of one
party. In other words, someone is appointed
on the joint recommendation of Senator Bruno
and Mr. Faso, and another is appointed on the
joint recommendation of Speaker Silver and
myself.
And that's not without its
significance. There have been times when
vacancies have persisted because the two
leaders from the same party in different
houses did not agree.
And I felt really constrained to
correct that, because I do have an
appointment.
The -- this bill has been up many
times over the years. It was passed
originally -- the mistake was made when the
Republican party controlled both houses and
the governorship. And the Republican drafters
made an error that seems to have favored the
Democrats on the board. It's probably the
4135
only drafting error that Jim Cantwell ever
made. But for obvious reasons, the law
persisted because, subsequently thereto, the
Democrats won the Assembly.
Mr. President, I have an amendment
at the desk I'd like to call up, waive its
reading, and explain.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Connor, just give me a moment to take a look
at it.
SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you,
Mr. President.
It's time, I think, to end this
charade time, it's time to forgive Jim
Cantwell his drafting error, and it's time to
make the Board of Elections function in
several ways in which it doesn't.
Another quirk -- another quirk in
the original law is that the appointees of the
two state party chairs -- in other words, the
two members appointed by the Governor on the
recommendation of the party chair of each of
4136
the two major parties, hold over when their
term expires, as do members of many boards,
commissions, et cetera.
For whatever reason, the two
members appointed by the Governor on the
recommendation of the party leaders in the
Legislature do not hold over. So if we go
back three years ago, four years ago, I
believe both the Republican member appointed
on the recommendation of the Republican
leaders of the Legislature and the member
appointed by the Governor on the
recommendation of the two Democratic leaders
in the Legislature found themselves out of
office for a few months because the second
floor didn't act on their recommendations.
Currently we are in the same
situation. And I made entreaties on behalf of
Commissioner Berman to the second floor months
before her term expired. The only issue -- by
the way, so there's a Democratic vacancy in
the State Board of elections. It doesn't mean
the two Republican members can outvote the one
Democratic member two to one, since the board
can only act on a bipartisan basis with at
4137
least three votes for any action.
So the whole effect of the second
floor not acting on the recommendation of the
Speaker and myself to reappoint Carol Berman
is former State Senator Carol Berman loses her
health insurance for a few months. Isn't that
a wonderful way, Mr. President, to do business
in this government in this capital? Let's
punish people, let's take their health
insurance away. Or maybe take their paychecks
away. We've seen that. We certainly feel
that. That's what the second floor has
accomplished in not acting on this
recommendation.
Understand, Mr. President, the
Governor cannot appoint someone else and he
must act on this recommendation, according to
the statute. But they can drag their feet and
leave somebody out for three, four, five
months without health insurance. It's just
absurd.
Now we get the word, "Well, but you
guys have never cleared up this Cantwell
drafting error from 1974." Well,
Mr. President, my amendment, which I would
4138
urge upon Senator Maltese -- because I really
don't think we're going to act on his bill
today, because the effective date of the bill
is June 1, 1999. And I think Senator Maltese
will recognize he better withdraw the bill and
amend it to change the effective date.
Otherwise, it will be ex post facto, because
it is after June 1st, 1999.
My amendment would do the
following. Let's rotate the chairs between
the parties every six months. Let's rotate
the chairs. We'll give up the point, so we
won't have a Democratic chair for 17 months
and a Republican chair for 7 months. Let's
rotate it -- not on an annual basis. It's
more an honorific anyway, because the whole
board has to act to do anything. Let's rotate
the chair every six months. Let's eliminate
the non-holdover status for both parties'
members who are appointed by the Legislative
leaders. In fact, I would think -- let's
leave aside who the Governor is now. The fact
of the matter, it's in both parties' interest
in this Legislature to have the leaders'
recommendation hold over if you have a second
4139
floor that won't act on the recommendation.
Why not? What's bad for Senator Bruno and
Mr. Faso in that? It's only good for them.
It's good for the Speaker and myself, it's
good for both parties, it's good for the
Legislature.
Why let the second floor -- now,
understand, we already do this. The person
recommended by the Republican state chair and
the Democratic state chair holds over if the
Governor won't act. But the one recommended
by the Legislative leaders doesn't -- the two
recommended by the Legislative leaders don't
hold over.
So my statute would eliminate that,
provide that all the members of the board hold
over until their replacement has been acted
upon. And in fact, why have the Governor
involved anyway? This bill makes it a direct
appointment of Senator Bruno and Mr. Faso and
a direct appointment of the Speaker and the
Minority Leader of the Senate. Or, let's put
it this way, we may not always be in that
position. It makes it a direct appointment of
the party leaders from one party in both
4140
houses and the party leaders from different
parties in both houses.
So let's eliminate the Governor's
role in this. There's no reason for it. He
cannot appoint someone else, he cannot reject
the recommendation under present law. All
they can do on the second floor is what
they've just done to Senator Berman, deny her
for health insurance for four or five months,
force people to go out and get COBRA coverage
or whatever, which is just absurd.
So, Mr. President, I give on the
point that I've heard from my Republican
colleagues for the last twenty years. We'll
rotate the chairmanship every six months.
Let's give the same status to the Legislative
leaders' appointment as we give the party
chairs' appointment, have them hold over.
Let's just take the Governor out of the
process, since they don't seem to care.
And three years ago, they allowed
the Republican choice of the Legislative
leaders to languish in a non-holdover status
for three or four months, just as they did the
Democratic choice. So it's bitten both
4141
parties in this Legislature to have the
Governor have a role. Why we would as a
Legislature accord to the state committee
chairs of both parties a prerogative we don't
give to our own leaders is beyond me.
Mr. President, I urge my amendment.
I think it's fair. I daresay I don't think
anyone on the other side of the aisle can
stand up and say there's anything wrong with
it, that it's unfair and, in fact, that it
doesn't enhance the Majority Leader's role in
this house.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
member wishing to speak on the amendment?
The question is on the amendment.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR CONNOR: Party vote in
the affirmative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4142
amendment is lost.
Any member wishing to speak on the
main bill?
SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Maltese, on the bill.
SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
as my good colleague Senator Connor well
knows, the effective date of this legislation
is not of paramount importance at this
particular time. The -- this is a subject of
negotiation between the respective leaders of
both houses. To point an accusing finger at
the Governor or any other person as
individually responsible for the termination
of health insurance I think is ingenuous at
best.
The fact of the matter is that for
24 years, this inequity has existed and
persisted. This inequity has not been
corrected by any altruistic member of either
this house or the other house or either
political party. It stands uncorrected. I
think most of the members familiar with this
issue realize that this is a matter for
4143
negotiation between the respective leaders.
And hopefully, former Senator Berman's health
insurance will be addressed and addressed
correctly in as expeditious a manner as
possible.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect June 1st.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
SENATOR CONNOR: Party vote in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will record the party-line vote and
announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 36. Nays,
22. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please lay aside for the day
Calendar Number 1197, by Senator Volker.
4144
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
Number 1197 is laid aside for the day.
SENATOR SKELOS: And would you
please call up Calendar Number 1200, by
Senator Seward.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1200.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1200, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5641, an
act to amend the Real Property Law, in
relation to eviction.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seward, an explanation of Calendar Number 1200
has been requested by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly,
Mr. President.
This bill amends the Real Property
Law by reinstating the three-day notice of
nonpayment of rent as the basis of eviction of
tenants who rent manufactured homes from
owners or operators of manufactured home
parts.
Now, the background here is that as
part of Chapter 502 of the Laws of 1994, which
4145
was part of the Mobile Home Bill of Rights,
back at that time Chapter 502 of the Laws of
1994 provided, among other things, the
requirement of a 30-day notice as a basis for
eviction on the grounds of nonpayment of rent
by manufactured-home tenants. Now, the law
defined a tenant as one who either rents a lot
in a manufactured home park or one who rents a
manufactured home from the park owner or
operator.
Now, this was a significant
expansion of the previous three-day notice
requirement and was intended -- and I
certainly support this -- to afford greater
protection to lot renters who needed more time
to make arrangements to have their
manufactured home detached from the lot and
moved to another location. But no rationale
was put forth for the expansion of the
additional 27 days' notice to those who merely
rented a manufactured home from the park owner
or operator.
Now, these defaulting tenants, it
seems to me, face no more of a burden than the
tenants of apartments or houses who, under
4146
existing law, require only the three-day
notice.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Mr. President. On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson on the bill.
SENATOR PATERSON: I'm a little
surprised that the mobile-home owners didn't
make any type of request for something less
than the additional 27 days that's being cut
by this bill. Because the reason I would
distinguish their situation from those of
normal tenants is the fact that they have to
engage in actually moving their -- what really
amounts to their entire household.
The three-day notice is one that is
difficult because individuals might be away
for a few days or something like that and
wouldn't know anything about it.
The encumbrance that's caused by
moving the entire motor home is a little more
difficult than -- I would assume, than the
average tenant. So although we can understand
4147
Senator Seward's point in lessening the time
from 30 days, we just thought that three days
was a little excessive and might even turn out
to be punitive for the individual that's
affected.
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seward.
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, just a
point of clarification. Perhaps I didn't make
myself clear in my earlier remarks.
The individual who owns their own
mobile home and merely rents a lot in a
mobile-home park, they are not affected by
this bill. They will continue to have the
full 30-day period of time before they can
receive a notice of eviction.
And so we're merely, under this
bill, conforming the tenant who rents a mobile
home from the mobile-home-park owner -- we're
merely putting them in the same category as a
tenant who rents an apartment or a house. And
so it seems to me this is a matter of simply
putting those individuals on par with those
others who merely rent an apartment or a full
4148
house.
And I would also point out,
Mr. President, that nothing in this bill
alters the existing due process and all of the
procedures that are correctly in place to
provide due process for all concerned in these
situations.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
on the bill.
I think that there are times that
we come to this chamber and wonder why we're
even coming here. But here's a very good
example of why we should.
Because after that explanation that
Senator Seward has just provided -- it wasn't
clear from just the memorandum, or maybe it
was and we just misunderstood -- here I really
can't distinguish between the tenant of a
mobile home and just a tenant in a regular
dwelling.
And because of that, we find
Senator Seward's explanation quite
satisfactory. And at this point, I can
4149
support the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1200 are
Senators Duane, Montgomery, Morahan, and
Schneiderman.
Excuse me. Senator Montgomery in
the affirmative.
Ayes, 55. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 1072,
by Senator Marchi.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4150
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1072, by
Senator Marchi.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1072, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2040, an
act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in
relation to prohibiting.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Marchi, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR MARCHI: In present
public policy, Mr. President, we have
operating separately and under their own
responsibility the Nathan S. Kline Institute
for Psychiatric Research, the New York State
Institute for Basic Research in Developmental
Disabilities, and the Research Institute on
Addictions, with other research facilities.
They are, in each and every case,
performing valuable services. I am most
familiar with the Basic Research Institute,
which is undoubtedly in my mind -- and in the
mind of many people who have been watching
them over the years and the developments and
dramatic breakthroughs that they have been
4151
responsible for -- is undoubtedly the best
research center for basic developmental
disability investigation and research.
This bill would bar the collocation
of these three facilities into one facility.
There is that third institute on addiction.
So one deals a great deal -- does admirably
the work of actual hands-on treatment, another
one doing basic research, raw research,
culminating in many historic breakthroughs.
I know of no known opposition to
this legislation. We did pass it last year,
unanimously. And I would hope that we pass it
this year with a better result in the other
house when it reaches them.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
Before that, Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're
standing up so you can hear the last section
read better?
SENATOR PATERSON: Yeah, among
other things.
Senator, if Senator Marchi would
4152
yield for just a quick question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Marchi, do you yield to a question from
Senator Paterson?
SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
Would my distinguished and favorite Senator
from Staten Island just want to comment on
whether or not the merging of facilities would
encourage almost a free and open exchange of
ideas and opinions between researchers and
their colleagues, perhaps foster a better
interaction, and might even be a cost savings
for us by having that? I just wondered if you
considered that or if it has any value.
SENATOR MARCHI: Well, PATH
obviously is in favor of the legislation. So
that perhaps the cost savings might be at the
expense of people who are presently employed
in either of those facilities. And there are
some operational advantages, in theory, that
those who are giving the treatment are also
involved in the research.
4153
Nevertheless, I believe,
Mr. President, that the accomplishments of the
Research Institute, concentrating and being
devoted in a singular fashion to the
development of remedial and new ways of
approaching developmental problems, certainly
carries with it a very heavy presumption that
certainly no one has seriously overcome.
And in my speaking to people who
are concerned in the area of mental
disability, they do feel that there is an
advantage in having research of this nature -
which is preeminent in the Northern
Hemisphere. I don't think there's another
research unit that can equal them,
notwithstanding the capabilities in the -
this companion organization in the hands-on
treatment.
So I think it's just based on
experience. And hopefully the argument has
been made by the very agency itself, by the
proficiency and the excellent repute with
which it's held in professional circles.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
4154
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson, on the bill.
SENATOR PATERSON: Looking at
this from a policy perspective, Mr. President,
the option of recognition that there are times
when, because of fiscal insolvency, there
might be areas that we might condense and in
many ways truncate some of the processes,
would be something that we might revisit at
some point when our state is not as
economically sound and fiscally strong as it
is right now.
And so just to set up a situation
where there's a permanent bar to condensing
some of these facilities, in my opinion right
now is something that might not be as
discernible as it would be if we were in the
situation of fighting through some of the
budget gaps that we did in the past decade,
particularly in the early part of this decade.
So for that reason, I'm really
going to consider voting against this
legislation. I'd like to do the same thing
4155
that Senator Marchi would like to do, but the
fact is that sometimes you have to really look
at these things in terms of the permanence of
what we're actually doing here and weighing it
as a value against what would be the
possibilities or the options we might explore
at some point where we might want to have a
cost savings.
Also, the fact that just putting
people in the research area together probably
encourages greater research would almost be an
enhancement. So it's not as if this is
something that we would be losing during the
time that we would make that decision; we
might actually gain from it.
So I appreciate what Senator Marchi
is trying to do. It certainly would be
something that on a temporary basis might be
interesting. But to permanently bar the
merging of these facilities in my opinion
might be something that we might wish sometime
in the future that we had rethought.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
4156
I rise in support of this bill. The Nathan
Kline Institute, which is located in my
Senatorial district, is a very unique facility
with hands-on experimental treatment that is
making progress as we speak. I have visited
the institute several times. I've spoken to
the leadership of that institute and that
research center, and it's their considered
opinion that the commingling of the various
researches that are done in this area and this
sort of consolidation may imbalance the focus
of the research now being conducted. And I
believe the research that they're conducting
is leading-edge technology in this area and
ought to be preserved, and I speak in support
of the bill.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
4157
the negatives and announce the results when
tabulated.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1072 are
Senators Connor, Dollinger, Paterson, and
Schneiderman. Ayes, 54. Nays, 4.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
call up Calendar Number 1185, by Senator
Velella.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1185.
It's on page 53 of the calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1185, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4018,
an act to amend the Education Law.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Velella, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR VELELLA: Yes,
Mr. President. This is a bill which deals
with our libraries and the young people of New
4158
York State and our country; their
ever-expanding minds have managed in the new
technological world to find ways to do things
that cause some problems.
In my own district, Assemblyman
Klein and myself had some problems in our
libraries with the use of computers by our
young people getting access to what we might
call X-rated materials. They've suddenly had
a new surge of interest in going to the
library and working on the computers, and the
library technicians found that the materials
they were looking at were not necessarily the
ones that related to their academic studies.
Therefore, we came together and put
this bill together. And what it does is say
that libraries must establish some type of
program, some type of requirements and
regulations that will include as part of their
services guidelines for their member libraries
to address the issue of restricting access to
minors for obscene materials during the
computer use in the library. Each library
facility will establish their own management
program as to how to relate to this and put a
4159
handle on it.
There is no attempt to deny it.
It's just a notification to the parents that
these materials are available and they ought
to be counseling their kids about the fact
that this is not the proper material to be
looking at in the public libraries.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes,
Mr. President, if I may. I understand that -
the intent of Senator Velella's legislation.
And certainly I know that you are opposed to
obscene language, and so am I.
But if I may ask him to yield for a
question, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Velella, do you yield to a question?
SENATOR VELELLA: Certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
Senator Velella, I -- this bill, your bill
seems to place a lot of, one, discretion and,
two, responsibility at the level of the
4160
library.
And I'm just wondering, one, how is
this going to be enforced and what is the
definition of obscenity or inappropriate
materials, how is that to be determined
uniformly statewide? Because what I may
consider to be obscene, you may not, and vice
versa.
SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, we
have, under the Penal Law, Section 235.00,
Subdivision 1, which defines obscenity in the
New York State law. We also have case
histories of the various courts in this state
that have interpreted what is inappropriate
materials and appeals to just certain types of
interest. So that the question of obscenity
has been clearly outlined in the law.
The reason why we put a burden on
the libraries is that it is their equipment,
their machinery, their access to the Internet.
And they are allowing our children or asking
our children, allowing them to come in, and
they ought to have a policy so that when a
parent lets their child go to the library,
that most of us think they're doing their
4161
academic research work or looking into new
things. Unfortunately, a lot of them are
looking at things that would be inappropriate
in terms of anyone in this room making that
decision, or their parents. That we can't
deny them that access, but we can say their
parents ought to be made aware and the
librarian ought to be following a policy that
makes us aware that the children are using the
machines to look at pornography or obscene
materials rather than doing academic research.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
Mr. President, if I may pursue my questioning
of Senator Velella.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Velella, do you yield to another question?
SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields to a question.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
Velella, I understand that the librarian or
the library -- you want the library to inform
the parents. But the fact of the matter is it
would require, it seems to me, that the -- a
librarian or a staff at the library be
4162
knowledgeable of every single person using
that equipment and where they have plugged
into on the Internet, which requires them to
follow up after each individual to see where
they've been looking, which materials they've
been observing, using, in the Internet.
So who's going to do that, and how
are we paying for this?
SENATOR VELELLA: Well, let me
explain. I think your impression of the bill
is wrong. We're not requiring every librarian
to follow every child around the library and
watch them.
We're requiring that the libraries
set some type of standard at their own
discretion, which is reasonable, to try and
control this access. My own personal feeling,
what I've suggested to the libraries in the
Bronx that had this problem, and Assemblyman
Klein and I visited them, where the screens
are up and the children are sitting in the
back of the library looking up these
inappropriate materials, I thought a very
simple solution might be there. Put a big
mirror up behind them so that anybody looking
4163
in can see what's on their screen, and then
you'd know exactly what they're looking at on
the computer. That was something that's being
looked into.
I just think that we need to
establish a policy. We don't try to do it in
the state laws here. We're saying libraries
ought to be aware this is a problem, ought to
be aware that parents ought to realize these
things exist on the Internet, the availability
is there for their children, and they ought to
have a policy to try and minimize it. We
don't set standards and require that the
librarian loses her job if the kid is found
looking at something. No. I mean, that would
be silly.
We're just saying there should be
an establishment of some type of standards by
the library to realize this is a problem, it's
inappropriate, and try to deal with it as best
as possible.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery.
4164
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I appreciate
the explanation that Senator Velella has
given. However, I just have a concern that
the libraries -- I'm talking now certainly
about Brooklyn, the central library of
Brooklyn and all of its branches. We're
hopeful that the library can become connected
to all of the schools in the district. We
would like to see more access to the Internet
by more and more young people, more and more
citizens. We would like to see access to the
Internet in communities.
So I don't want to burden that
library system further by having them become
police of the Internet and of the technology.
I think that with appropriate interaction and
supervision and planning between the library
staff, school staff, we can begin to create a
lot of meaningful interchange and curriculum
development with the cultural institutions and
what have you.
So rather than attempt to create
some system of policing, I would like to see
us invest more in the process of building a
coalition and joint planning strategies
4165
between schools, libraries, cultural
institutions, as it relates to helping young
people broadening the access and helping young
people as well as teachers be able to utilize
technology effectively in their -- in
teaching.
So I'm going to vote against this.
And as I said before, I fully understand
Senator Velella's point of view as a parent.
I certainly am concerned. I don't want my son
to be engaging in these -- looking at these
kinds of things, necessarily. But I would
hope that his work in school is exciting
enough that he is -- it's enough to keep him
engaged in very positive and constructive and
meaningful use of the technology, as opposed
to going into this kind of obscenity.
So I'm going to vote no on this.
And I hope that we can do more to strength
what I consider to be access to technology.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
4166
President. Would the sponsor yield to a
couple of questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Velella, do you yield to a question from
Senator Duane?
SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
much.
I'm wondering whether or not you
know if the American Library Association has
weighed in on this legislation.
SENATOR VELELLA: I haven't heard
anything from them that they're opposed to it.
I doubt very seriously if they would be in
favor of allowing access to what might be
obscene materials in their libraries by young
people. But I have not heard any complaint
from them or any opposition, no.
SENATOR DUANE: If I could
continue along that line.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Velella, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
4167
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DUANE: In fact, the
American Library Association has done a
tremendous amount of work on Internet access
and has some very strong positions on this.
And I was wondering if you had reached out to
them about your legislation.
SENATOR VELELLA: No. But when
the libraries start to formulate -- this
doesn't mandate any fixed policy. It says
"establish a policy to deal with this issue."
And I certainly know that the libraries would
welcome -- at least in Bronx County and I
assume throughout the state would welcome the
input of anyone as to how they might manage
this.
It's a very, very thin line you
walk when you're trying to protect
Constitutional rights to access to
information, even for minors, but yet deal
with the issue of looking at obscene materials
in a public-provided facility. So that we
don't ban anything, we just say establish a
policy so that parents will be notified that
4168
this is something that will have access -
that children will have access to. And
thereby hopefully the parent will instruct
their child and help guide them through.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, if
I may continue.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Velella, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VELELLA: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DUANE: I think that the
point being made that this legislation doesn't
seek to ban anything is not really accurate,
in that the bill does talk about restricting.
Restricting, in my mind, means that
a certain amount of information would be
unavailable for young people to look at. And
while I certainly applaud that young people
shouldn't be able to -- as they shouldn't be
able to go see movies that are too adult or
watch television shows that are too adult for
them.
But the Internet is a different -
is a different and a totally new technological
4169
field. And is it the sponsor's thought that
one of the ways that the restriction of the
information would be through the use of
filters?
SENATOR VELELLA: Again, I have
not prescribed any means of doing this. What
I've said is let's let the minds of the
library facilities sit down, look at this,
recognize it as a problem -- that was brought
to my attention by parents and librarians in
my district. And I think it's a problem that
probably is a little bit more pronounced than
we had originally thought, because in asking
people in the library system, workers, yes,
they've had these problems and they've had to
reprimand people for putting things on screens
and showing them to their friends in the
library. And it does cause some kind of
commotion and discipline problem within the
libraries.
So that they need to deal with
this. And what I've said is the professionals
will decide what is the proper way to deal
with the problem in the library setting. And
let them come forward with the plan. And if
4170
it's improper or violates Constitutional
provisions, then we may step in, the courts
may step in, or people whose rights are
violated would step in.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, on
the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: I think that we
can't pretend that this isn't an issue which
has already created enormous public debate and
discussion. And just by sort of punting and
saying that requiring compliance with
regulations restricting minors is in some way
a new idea or something which hasn't been
looked at extensively by library systems,
librarians, consumers, users, people in the
academic field, civil libertarians, in fact
there is enormous discussion about this issue
going on every day in all of the media.
Just saying restricting minors'
access to obscene and pornographic materials
raises a whole host of very complicated
issues. For instance, the way that that's
being accomplished in places is through the
4171
use of filters. That's the most widely used
method of restricting access to certain areas
on the Internet. But the debate has gotten
very hot and heavy, frankly, on issues of
access to information on reproductive
information, reproductive health care
information, health care information that has
nothing to do with reproduction, lesbian, gay,
bisexual, transgendered issues, whether or not
that's considered to be obscene or
pornographic, at what level it becomes obscene
or pornographic.
So there's a whole range of issues
which I believe, by the language of the
legislation which would restrict minors'
ability to go to certain areas on the
Internet, makes it very, very troublesome.
And I think that this is way too broad. I
also think that we don't need to legislate
that. If we need to have a discussion about
the best way to protect young people and at
the same time to allow them information, I
don't think that's something we should be
doing legislatively. Far better for there to
be, in addition to involvement in the
4172
discussion that's already happening in the
world, perhaps the Governor could set up a
task force or the legislative bodies could set
up a task force and include people from the
health care profession, librarians, consumers
of library services, civil libertarians and
others, to find out what might be the best way
to make sure that young people get as much
access to information as they need, as well as
protect them from things which we all agree
they should not be exposed to.
And I encourage my colleagues to
vote no on that. Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives. Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1185 are
Senators Duane, Montgomery, Paterson, and
4173
Schneiderman. Ayes, 54. Nays, 4.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Rath, why do you rise?
SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I'd
like to place a sponsor's star on Calendar
1162.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
Number 1162 will be starred at the request of
the sponsor.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Commerce and Economic Development Committee in
the Majority Conference Room, an immediate
meeting.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate
meeting of the Commerce and Economic
Development Committee. Immediate meeting of
the Commerce and Economic Development
Committee in Room 332, the Majority Conference
Room.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you,
Mr. President. Will you please call Calendar
4174
Number 82.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 82.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
82, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1592A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal
Procedure Law, the Executive Law, the
Correction Law, and the Public Health Law.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes,
Mr. President. This bill, which is the
Volker-Paterson bill, among others, passed
this house, I believe it was February 11th -
I believe it was -- of this year. And at the
time that it passed the house, there was some
discussion at the time about one provision of
this bill, to improve it.
Very honestly, we've discussed this
for now several months, and the -- at that
point we thought we were going to have a
compromise with the Assembly by now.
Unfortunately, that hasn't occurred. So the
4175
decision was made in the last week or so to
include one single provision of the bill that
was left out of the original Governor's
Program bill, with Senate approval.
That one section, 18(A)13, what it
really does is give people who are the victims
of sex offenses much more access to the Crime
Victims Compensation Board by allowing to, in
effect, waive the rule of prompt notification
to the board and enables a person who is a
victim of a sex offense to comply with a
good-cause application to the Crime Victims
Compensation Board. At the same time, what
this does is -- is, very honestly, access
federal money which is available for sex
offense victims also. And the state, of
course, in turn is able to get some of that
money to reimburse us for the Crime Victims
Board.
That is the only change in this
bill from the bill that passed, as I said,
back in February. And I think there were only
a couple of members of the Legislature that I
think voted against it.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
4176
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. I just
wanted to ask a question. I probably have an
outdated memo. I have a memo from -- the
Governor's Program bill memo.
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. Yes. As I
said, that memo -- it was the Governor's
Program memo. That memo is correct except for
that one piece that I just gave you.
Everything else is the same.
In other words, that memo would be
exactly correct except for the page 12, that
section of the bill that allows sex offense
victims to access more easily to the Crime
Victims Compensation Board and to access, in
effect, the federal money.
So all the advocates and everybody
is in favor of this. There's really no
opposition from anybody. And I don't -- by
the way, the Assembly is in favor of this too.
I mean, I -- in other words, the Assembly will
not object to this provision, if you know what
I mean. They may object -- they'll object
maybe to some other things, but they're not
going to object to this one. Okay?
4177
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: To this one,
okay. Just one question.
SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The bill
refers to deviate sexual intercourse, and it
defines that and so forth and so on. That's
just specifically related to a criminal act,
or how does that -
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes,
specifically related to a criminal act.
Absolutely. Absolutely. It doesn't -- I know
what you're leading to. It does not affect
any other provisions of the law except the
criminal act involved.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Involved in
a case that is -
SENATOR VOLKER: In a case. In a
sexual assault, absolutely.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And it can't
be interpreted as -- you know, you can't
interpret a relationship that is outside of
this under that, then?
SENATOR VOLKER: No. No.
Absolutely not.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Very good.
4178
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 46. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President,
will you call, please, Calendar Number 1150.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1150, by
Senator Bonacic.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1150, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4471A,
an act in relation to enacting the Christopher
Gardner Memorial Act.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, an explanation of Calendar Number
1150 has been requested by Senator Montgomery.
4179
SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
Mr. President.
This is legislation that amends the
Social Services Law, the Family Court Act in
relation to definitions of neglected and
maltreated children and child abuse. It
amends the Social Service Law, the Civil
Rights Law, the County Law, and the Mental
Hygiene Law, in relation to establishing local
and regional fatality review teams to amend
the Penal Law in relation to endangering the
welfare of a child. And also to repeal
certain provisions of the Social Services Law
relating to access to certain records of state
and local agencies.
This basically is an omnibus bill
that takes into consideration the best
interest of the child in certain court
proceedings. Under existing law, there is a
failure to provide a statutory presumption
that a child is abused when he or she as a
newborn tests positive for drugs. Also,
current law fails to provide for an expedited
way to remove a child from the home when that
child is catastrophically maltreated.
4180
In addition, current law also fails
to treat seriously the repeated endangerment
of a child. And the current law fails to
establish fatality review teams to review the
death of a child and take preventative steps.
Current law fails to take into consideration
the best interest of a child.
This legislation was spurred by the
death of Christopher Gardner. He was a
three-year-old boy from Sullivan County, and
he lived with his mother and two roommates.
This boy took a bowl of candy when he wasn't
supposed to. What then happened to this
little boy in the next three or four hours was
many acts that were acts of torture. He was
beaten profusely, had bruises all over his
body. He was scalded with hot water. He was
kicked in the stomach repeatedly. He was
punched all over his body, was thrown down a
flight of stairs. A few hours later, he died.
He died with broken bones all over his body, a
concussion to his head. He had a collapsed
lung. He had a punctured liver. And this was
the home environment.
Unfortunately, in today's day and
4181
age, child abuse has escalated. I quote from
a report entitled "Prevent Child Abuse
America," dated December of '96, that was
report Number 9, when they started taking
statistics of child abuse, that 1,215 child
maltreatment deaths were confirmed by Child
Protective Services. I only gave you an
instance in 1998 that happened in Sullivan
County.
So we are now trying to put
legislation in place that will make child
protective agencies, social services, family
court, district attorney's offices, give them
more power and put a statutory standard in
watching as to what is the best interest of
the child.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
Mr. President. If Senator Bonacic will yield
to a couple of questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do,
Mr. President.
4182
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
Senator, your bill, you say that this -- you
name this the Christopher Gardner Memorial
Act. Are you -- is the implication that
Christopher Gardner's mother tested positive
for drugs when he was born and therefore -
and you didn't take the baby, and therefore
this bill?
SENATOR BONACIC: No. The
Christopher Gardner incident is not relevant
to the section of this legislation that talked
about the positive testing for drugs. Because
this was a three-year-old boy when this
incident occurred.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay, thank
you.
Now, if you would continue -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
4183
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The
legislation says that -- correct me if I'm
wrong -- that if -- in the event a child is
born to a parent who tests positive for drugs,
that child is automatically removed. There
are no extenuating circumstances in that
instance. The child is immediately removed,
and in order to get the child back, my
assumption is that it's up to that parent to
prove that that was an error in removing that
child from the parent. Is that correct?
SENATOR BONACIC: Your answer is
correct. And in your question I'll presume
two sets of facts. One is let's assume the
test was false-positive. Normally, if the
mother is on Medicaid, there could be an
immediate test, a second test that would be
paid for by the state.
And now let's assume further that
it's -- there is a positive finding for drugs.
Okay? It creates a rebuttable presumption
that the burden is now on the mother to go
forward, to say that the child should be
reunited with the mother in a home that's safe
and that there is no imminent danger of harm
4184
to that child.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay.
Senator Bonacic, you are aware that there is a
program that we currently have going at
Bedford Hills where the infant born to a
mother in the facility, I believe, is
allowed -- that mother is allowed to keep that
infant for a year.
SENATOR BONACIC: When the infant
tested positive for drugs?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Well, it's
just a matter of many of the women who are in
the facility there are there because of
drug-related crime. So the assumption being
that there was some involvement with drugs,
probably, before the woman got there.
The program allows that mother to
stay with the child until that -- for at least
one year, I believe.
SENATOR BONACIC: If that is a
good program and it's working well with the
mother and the child, I do believe that this
legislation will not change what's been
4185
happening.
What the legislation will do is
there would be a hearing before a family court
judge in that instance where -- let's assume
the baby was tested positive for drugs -- a
family court judge would have to say it's okay
for that child to stay with that mother in
that program that you described.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Now, Senator
Bonacic, does the bill then presume that -
let me just ask a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery, are you asking Senator Bonacic to
yield to another question?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, if he
would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
-
SENATOR BONACIC: I will continue
to yield to all of the Senator's questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: What then
happens, what is the presumption of the status
of the parent that is tested and is -- where
4186
the child has tested positive? Is there a
presumption that the parent has engaged in
criminal activity, therefore?
SENATOR BONACIC: The test is
what is the best environment and the safest
environment to return the child. And all of
the focus is not on whether or not you're
going to arrest a parent for criminal
activity, it's where you're going to place the
child.
And it's a rebuttable presumption
on behalf of the parent -- the mother, in most
cases, that she will have to make an argument
that satisfies the judge that that baby should
stay with her and that the baby will be safe
and no increased risk of harm.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. I
guess my last question to you, Senator, is
who -- what happens to the babies and who pays
for that? My assumption is that these babies
are put into foster care as infants. And who
pays -- who pays? How does that get paid for?
SENATOR BONACIC: First of all, a
lot of things could happen. The judge could
say, I'm going to return the baby back to the
4187
home but I require counseling on behalf of the
mother or father in a household setting.
Perhaps social services will visit the house
more frequently to make sure that the activity
in the house is monitored, not increasing the
risk of harm to the baby. That's one
scenario.
Another scenario is this house
isn't safe to go back to -- or to go back to
this mother, for -- that there's an increased
risk of harm. In that case, the baby could be
placed with another family member -- an aunt,
an uncle, someone who knows the child and has
a relationship. Or it could be put in a
foster home as another alternative. And these
would be paid for by the state.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
Thank you, Senator Bonacic.
SENATOR BONACIC: You're welcome.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.President,
on the bill, briefly.
Senator Bonacic has indicated to
us, and I think correctly, that the major part
of this legislation, which is the positive
toxicology, as I see it, is really -- has
4188
nothing to do with Christopher Gardner. So we
want to clarify that, that we're using
Christopher Gardner, it's a convenient handle
for a bill, but this really is not a
Christopher Gardner bill.
The bill will eventually cost the
state an enormous amount of money without even
a promise that we're going to in fact address
the issue at hand. And the issue at hand, it
seems to me, is what do we do about the fact
that we have infants who are born to parents
who have obviously been using drugs.
And there are models, even within
our own state, for addressing this issue in a
positive way which has a good outcome. One of
them is in Bedford Hills, and others are in
our communities where we have programs where
mother and infant are treated together. We
have funded those programs through this
budget, through our own state budget. Those
programs were developed because we understood
there was a problem.
And why are we not enhancing those
programs and expanding our capacity to treat
these situations more appropriately than
4189
grabbing babies when they're born from mothers
because those mothers have a problem? And
drug abuse is perhaps only one kind of problem
that women come in with who are going to be -
whose babies are going to be born and we're
going to be sending those babies back with
them.
I would suggest that, with all due
respect to Senator Bonacic's intentions to
address this, I think that this is just the
wrong way to go. I want to address this
issue, but not like this, not by snatching
those babies. I know in my own district, I
have visited hospitals that were overrun with
boarder babies. These are babies that are
just left, and it's up to the hospital and
everybody else to assume the responsibility of
those babies.
I do not want to create a situation
where we're going to have this kind of a
problem on our hands. We need to be
addressing this issue. I want to see it done,
but certainly not in a way that's going to
cause more problems than we already have.
So, Mr. President, I would urge my
4190
colleagues to vote no on this. And I
certainly hope that Senator Bonacic will
consider addressing this toxicology issue
separate and apart from whatever this
Christopher Gardner situation is. It is not
the same thing, and this bill has nothing to
do with Christopher Gardner.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Oppenheimer, why do you rise?
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
like to ask a question of the sponsor.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield to a question from
Senator Oppenheimer?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I was out
of chamber at the beginning of the discussion
on this bill. And in looking up the
information on Christopher Gardner, I see that
the problem probably lay elsewhere, in that
our state central registry, the agency
rejected two calls on the subject of this
4191
child, this issue.
I think we have to question what is
happening with our state central agency, our
registry. Because if they had accepted those
two calls, this issue would not be before us.
SENATOR BONACIC: Are you asking
a question, Senator?
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm asking
the question have we addressed the issue of
what's happening at the agency? Because if
the agency was doing its job, we wouldn't have
this before us.
SENATOR BONACIC: The legislation
that is before us today is much broader, in
that it puts into law a statutory presumption
that the best interests of the child shall be
the standard. It also toughens penalties for
the endangerment of a child through child
abuse.
Now, as to the Christopher Gardner
incident, you brought up that perhaps the
state agency didn't respond in an efficient
way or was unresponsive. And that -- you
know, I'm not going to say whether or not it
would have saved his life. I would have
4192
rather had that they respond as soon as they
got those two calls. But there is another
piece of legislation pending that's not a part
of this bill that would require the family and
child services to record the calls and to
respond to every call. That's pending before
the Legislature, but that's not part of this
bill.
And I -- you know Senator, I
wish -- he's gone, but -- but we don't want to
forget him. But this legislation still has
merit on its own right. And I still think
it's necessary, whether Christopher Gardner is
still alive or not -- would have been alive
today.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Okay, thank
you. I'd like to just speak on the bill
briefly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Oppenheimer, on the bill.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think,
you know, much of what's in here, I think we
all could agree with what Senator Bonacic is
trying to move with this legislation. And
certainly I think for too many years we have
4193
not put the needs of the child first, and
rather it's been the reunification of the
family and a variety of other considerations.
But now I think it is
appropriate -- the one piece that is causing
me such distress is the rebuttable presumption
that the mother is automatically incapable of
taking care of a child because she has
trust -- been tested -- thank you, that's the
word -- as positive for drugs. The bill
actually fails to mention a possible
double-checking of the accuracy of the
newborn's drug test. And that's important,
because these tests have been shown to be
inaccurate from 10 to 15 percent of the time.
And to have a baby literally
snatched from its mother within 24 hours of
delivery and holding the woman criminally
liable, it just seems to be such a severe and
really unnecessary step, particularly in light
of the fact that there isn't even a second
test to see if the first test was correct.
As I said, most of this bill, it's
very easy to support, it's a good bill. This
one feature is very, very disturbing. And I
4194
think we -- I will be voting no, and I would
urge my fellow Senators to vote similarly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Sampson, did you wish to speak on the bill?
SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes,
Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield just
for a couple of questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield to a question from
Senator Sampson?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, Senator
Bonacic. Under this legislation, how are we
going to deal with those incidents where we
have false-positive test results?
SENATOR BONACIC: Right, yes.
Just -- let me just put on the record, we -
this -- there was a Senate Bill, 1075, which
we passed early in the year, by Senator
Skelos, that talked about the false-positive.
And a lot of that legislation is inclusive in
the Christopher Gardner Memorial Act
legislation that's before us today.
4195
But within 24 hours, a second test
could be taken. And if it was shown to be a
false positive, there would be no need for any
hearing and the baby would be returned to the
mother. At the state's expense, by the way.
SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Sampson.
SENATOR SAMPSON: Would the
sponsor continue to yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR SAMPSON: You said the
state would pick up the expenditure on that?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SAMPSON: And that's if
the person is covered by Medicaid or -
SENATOR BONACIC: Medicaid.
SENATOR SAMPSON: What about
those individuals who are not covered by any
insurance?
4196
SENATOR BONACIC: But not -- not
on -
SENATOR SAMPSON: Not on
Medicaid.
SENATOR BONACIC: Not on any kind
of public assistance?
SENATOR SAMPSON: Yeah. Such as
maybe, possibly, immigrants.
SENATOR BONACIC: Well, if they
don't qualify for public assistance -- I'm not
clear on the second cost. But we would -
it's our intent that the state pay for it.
SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you,
Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR SAMPSON: And during this
period of time when the child taken away from
the parent, the child is placed into a foster
home or -
SENATOR BONACIC: No -
SENATOR SAMPSON: What happens to
4197
the child at that point in time, the newborn?
SENATOR BONACIC: Well, if this
has taken place while the baby is in the
hospital, the baby will probably stay in the
hospital for the second test. We're talking
of a 24-hour period.
But let's assume that the mother is
released from the hospital. The baby would
be -- could be put in a foster home or it
could be left in the hospital till there's a
determination. There has to be -- under the
legislation, it has to go to the family court
judge, an application, within 24 hours, and he
has to make a decision in 72 hours.
So the whole thrust is an expedited
decision on what to do with the child. And
the family court judge could say reunite the
child back with the mother, but we want
counseling and we want frequent monitoring by
family and child services. That's a
possibility.
SENATOR SAMPSON: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger. Do you wish to be recognized,
Senator Dollinger?
4198
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, would you recognize Senator
Oppenheimer if she has any further questions
and comments or -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I
appreciate your assistance in directing the
traffic up here, Senator Dollinger. But you
had the floor next. If you wish to exercise
that option. If you don't, if you wish to
pass, then I'll take the next Senator in line.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, are
there other Senators in line, Mr. President?
If there are, I'd be glad -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I believe
that Senator Oppenheimer is behind you.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would pass
up my opportunity and yield to the floor to
Senator Oppenheimer, and I'll continue
discussions with others on the floor.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger waives.
Senator Oppenheimer, why do you
rise?
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
Senator Dollinger, Mr. President. I was
4199
just -- I have a question for Senator Bonacic.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield to a question from
Senator Oppenheimer?
SENATOR BONACIC: I certainly do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well,
Senator Bonacic just said something that I
found very interesting, and that was that what
might be provided is some counseling for the
mother and her newborn.
The "might" is what concerned me.
I wonder if this bill, it just is up to
discretion -- it is not that this mother and
her newborn really could utilize -- in fact,
must have some assistance. What's your
opinion on that?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yes. These
questions were asked earlier, and this would
be up to the discretion of a family court
judge as to what he thinks is in the best
interests and safety of the child.
And I would think, and the
practical aspect, is that the child would be
4200
returned to the home and counseling would be a
requirement for the mother and maybe other
members of the household, and there might be
more frequent visits to see how the child and
the family are getting along. But it's a
family court decision based on the facts of
each circumstance. That's how it would work.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you
very much. Again, on the bill.
I think if there were more
mandatory counseling written in, if there were
more direction to programs -- which do exist.
I know we have them in Westchester County,
where we take the mother and the child, the
newborn or the small child, into counseling
together. We even actually have it in our
women's prison, where we have the child stay
with the mother while she's going through
detox. There are programs out there that are
available for the young mother, either of a
newborn or of a young child, to help them
overcome addiction and to better understand
what the role is of the mother in caring for
the child.
So I just would have been much more
4201
comfortable if this had been written into law.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
you, Senator Oppenheimer.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me,
Mr. President. Can we ask the bill to be laid
aside, Mr. President?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you mind laying the bill aside
temporarily?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do not.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
will be laid aside temporarily.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can we at this time return to reports of
standing committees? I believe there's a
report at the desk, and I ask that it be read.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
return to the order of reports of standing
committees.
There is a report of the Finance
Committee which is at the desk. I'll ask the
4202
Secretary to read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, offers up the
following bills directly for third reading:
1602B, Budget Bill, making
appropriations for the support of government;
Senate 1603B, Budget Bill, an act
to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
property casualty insurance;
Senate 3286A, Budget Bill, an act
making appropriations for the support of
government;
Senate 5808, by the Committee on
Rules, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
Law, in relation to state reimbursement;
Senate 3287A, Budget Bill, an act
making appropriations for the support of
government;
Senate 5810, by the Committee on
Rules, an act to amend the Executive Law, in
relation to reimbursement;
Senate 3288A, Budget Bill, an act
making appropriations for the support of
government;
Senate 5809, by the Committee on
4203
Rules, an act to amend the Education Law, the
Local Finance Law, and Chapter 58 of the Laws
of 1998;
Senate 1A, by Senator Bruno, an act
to amend the Tax Law;
Senate 2A, by Senator Bruno, an act
to amend the Tax Law;
Senate 3A, by Senator Bruno, an act
in relation to enacting the Jobs 2000 for the
State of New York;
And Senate 5, by Senator Bruno, an
act to amend the State Finance Law.
All bills directly for third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All bills
ordered directly to third reading.
Senator Bruno. Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can we at this time take up Calendar Number
1205, Senate 1602B?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1205, Budget Bill, Senate 1602B, an act making
appropriations for the support of government
4204
on General Government Budget.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bruno, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, we
have on the desk the appropriation bills to
begin the passage of the budget for the people
of this state. And this budget, when we
complete passage, which we expect to do by
tomorrow, will add about a billion
100 million, net, to the governor's budget
proposal.
This is a real budget. It is a
complete budget. It has record increases for
education -- I think 865 million in education.
It has over a billion dollars, all funds, in
Medicaid and health care restorations,
restores about 160 million to TAP, about 160
to 70 million overall in higher education,
200 million in transportation, on top of the
Governor's proposal, for roads and for
bridges. It has about 93 million in
additional revenue sharing in municipalities,
with a 2 percent cost of living increase built
in. 5 million in Bundy aid.
4205
It does all of the kinds of things
that are necessary for people to maintain a
quality of life here in New York State. We
will be adding 1,100,000,000 in tax cuts. We
have our J2K program that is $782 million
worth of job creation, economic development,
as we partner with the Governor in continuing
to move this state forward to create more jobs
and to keep the people of this state moving
forward in the economic recovery that started
five years ago.
So, Mr. President, I'm asking my
colleagues to join us. And I know that there
will be some in the chamber that have
differences of opinion, that have some
offerings that they will be submitting. And
we will debate those and we will discuss
those. But when the day is done, we are going
to put a budget in place that will be the
Senate's response. We will invite the
Assembly to join with us in passing this
budget.
We have last year established a
conference committee concept. We are asking
the Speaker and the Assembly to initiate the
4206
conference committee today, tonight, tomorrow,
so that we can engage in open public
discussion the differences that we have, if we
have differences -- and we do -- and we can
have a budget when this session closes in
place for the people of this state Wednesday
next, on June 16th.
There is no reason why we can't
have this budget or something very similar to
this in place. As all of you know, you are
enjoying life without paychecks. You don't
have paychecks because we can't get the
Speaker engaged in the conference committee
discussion which we have asked to take place
yesterday, today, late last week. And as you
all know, the Speaker in their resolution in
the Assembly added over 4 billion to the
governor's budget. It was a nonstarter.
We had indicated that if we could
get together on avails, that we would go
forward. Somewhere in the neighborhood of the
billion, we thought we could engage the
Governor. The Speaker last week said that he
would be at a billion one to a billion five.
We said close enough, let us initiate the
4207
conference committee general committee -
yesterday, today -- and if we do that, we'll
have an open discussion on our differences.
We have had no response from the
Speaker, representing the Majority in the
Assembly, other than that they are now
thinking that they are back at their 4 million
plus, not the billion one to five.
Now, I share that with you because
time's passing and when we close regular
session, which we will do on the 16th, we're
going to leave here. Then we will stay
focused on the budget, and all of you will be
on call within hours from returning to this
chamber to go in the conference committees and
to ultimately pass a budget, and we can go on
with governing on behalf of the constituency
that elects us to represent their best
interests.
So, Mr. President, I ask my
colleagues for their support in moving this
budget process forward towards a successful
conclusion.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
4208
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have a
question for the sponsor, if I could.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bruno, do you yield to a question?
SENATOR BRUNO: Yes,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
Is there anything, Senator Bruno -
and I appreciate that this has been a
difficult and long process. But there is
anything that we're doing today that we
couldn't have done March 15th or March 20th or
April 15th or April 20th or at any time
before -- I know that there's a disparity, as
you've described it -- I think properly so -
between the Assembly position, whatever that
is, and the budget that we're going to do
today.
4209
But what is it about today -- I
mean, today certainly is a day we should
start. But why couldn't we have done this
back in March or in April, since the positions
don't appear to have changed?
SENATOR BRUNO: Well, Senator, as
you know, we had agreed with the Speaker that
we would do resolutions representing the
desires of our individual chambers. We did
our resolution that added a billion one to the
Governor's budget. And we were not specific,
but we were general. The Assembly did their
resolution, and that was approximately
4 billion over the Governor's budget.
Generally, not specifically.
We had agreed to do it generally
because when you print a budget, we're talking
about hundreds of pages and thousands of
pages. And we thought that it would be more
efficient, more prudent to speak generally in
the hopes that we would then get the
conference committees, when we came together
on avails, with the money that was available
for the conference committees to budget, and
then do a final budget and send it to the
4210
governor. That has not happened.
So rather than leave the people of
this state wondering what we specifically
meant with our budget resolution, we are now
very specific, when you look at the hundreds
and hundreds of pages that are represented in
these appropriation bills before you, very
specific to the detail. And it's now time to
do that because we're going to leave next week
and we didn't want to leave in the Senate
without having completed a budget that we
would be proud to stand with and behind for
the people of this state.
So that's why now. We did do it in
the middle of March generally. We are now
doing it specifically. And we're inviting the
Assembly to be specific with their general
resolution that they passed, and the response
that we have is that they are prepared to do
the easy parts of the budget, 30 percent of
the budget, and save the hard parts for some
distant future time. We don't think that's
the response that the people of this state
deserve.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you
4211
very much, Mr. President. Just on the bill.
I understand Senator Bruno's
explanation, and I appreciate it. But I still
think the broader question of whether we could
have done today -- or done on March 15th what
we're doing today, I think the answer to that
question is yes. And I think we could have
put together a budget that would have
reflected the views of this body to pave the
way for discussions in conference committees
with the Assembly.
The issue that was supposedly
preventing us from doing it back in March,
which is the inability to agree on avails, is
the issue that still exists today. Nothing
has changed, except we're three months later
than we should be. And I really think that's
the point that needs to be driven home.
There have been times in this
chamber in the past where we had done a budget
by March 31st, even though there was no
fundamental agreement with the Assembly on
avails and that there had been no negotiations
about working out the details. So we have
done in the past -- in the years that I've
4212
been here, certainly, we have done full
budgets by the March 31st deadline and then
taken time over time -- sometimes a month,
sometimes five months -- to work out those
details.
And the only reason why I stand,
Mr. President, I'm not sure what I'm going to
do on this bill, but it seems to me we have
waited an awful long period of time to get the
job done, that we should have jumped on this
job and gotten it done in early March.
Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed.
And I would just suggest that we're
doing it now that we have our self-imposed
deadline of next week when we're not going to
be in session. And it seems to me that we've
already passed up a number of deadlines
before, including that deadline of April 1st,
which we seem to have forgotten a long time
ago. And what's happened here is
unfortunately, however it's accounted for, the
state Legislature has dragged its heels, its
collective heels, in getting the job done that
the people want done and the people needed
done.
4213
And I hope that we can reach a
resolution. I hope this budget passage
triggers a conference committee with the
Assembly and a conference committee, if
nothing else, on how much revenue is
available, the one spot that seems to be
needed most to begin to get this process
moving along.
Therefore, under those
circumstances, Mr. President, I would just -
I'm probably going to end up voting against
this bill. And I think the time has come to
do something, but I'd just remind everybody
we've already waited way too long.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
4214
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
may we please take up Calendar Number 1206,
Senate Print 1603B.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1206, Budget Bill, Senate Print 1603B, an act
to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to the
Property Casualty Insurance Security Fund.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
4215
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
will you please call up Calendar Number 1207,
Senate 3286A.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1207, Budget Bill, Senate Print 3286A, an act
making appropriations for the support of
government, transportation, economic
development, and environmental conservation
budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number
1207 has been requested.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
I try not to stand anymore than I have to.
But since -- not have to, but that I'm asked
to. But since I've been asked to stand, I
4216
would appreciate in answering the question if
I couldn't make a -- kind of make a broad
stroke with a conceptual brush here to explain
where we are.
It's been explained very well by
the Majority Leader. I certainly can't
improve on it, just join with him. Much of
what Senator Dollinger says was not in error,
but I'd like to explain from our point of view
why we are where we are. I will be brief
because I don't want it to empty out
completely here.
Mr. President -- Mr. President,
with the Majority Leader, Joe Bruno, with the
staff of the Senate Finance Committee, with
the staffs of all the Senators, with all the
Senators, and with the Governor and his
people, we no longer, Mr. President, have a
$5 billion deficit.
Now, I remember -- I haven't been
here as long as Senator Dollinger -- he's
gone. Oh, there he is. And he was, you know,
bringing up some history. But, Mr. President,
I remember when this state was in a position
whereby we weren't competitive with the rest
4217
of the country, or the other states, and where
this state was going in the wrong direction.
And to use language that we all understand,
the state was going down, for many reasons.
But one of the main reasons was we were
spending too much money.
Now, to bring up some of the areas
we were spending too much, I always say this
because I try to emphasize it. I like to
think that I understand the necessity for
social services as well as anybody in this
chamber, from a personal point of view, and
would be pleased to discuss that with anybody
individually. On the other hand, we were
spending in that area and we were spending in
other areas whereby we ended up with
$5 billion that we didn't have that we had
spent. Deficit.
With Governor Pataki and with our
Majority Leader, Joe Bruno, and with our group
here, we do now have a surplus. But,
Mr. President, we cannot go back to where we
were five years ago. If we do, we are not
going to be able to provide any services, or
we're not -- and we're not going to be able to
4218
support this state. Please forgive me for
saying this, but I've been there. I've seen
it. And I also see what's been done in the
last five years.
One thing I try never to do is to
be personal. And I have friends in all parts
of this Legislature. But I disagree with some
of my friends who are insisting that we go
back to where we were five years ago and spend
and end up losing jobs, end up not being able
to provide the services and to provide the
necessary funds for this state.
I only say that, Mr. President,
because that's where we are. That's where we
are. I'm not going to repeat it, but you
heard the Majority Leader. He said it much
better than I can. And if there's anybody who
wants a budget, it's the Majority Leader. One
thing about it, there's not a better
negotiator, but he wants to get it done. And
we are willing to do so within the framework
of fiscal prudence.
The transportation, economic
development, environmental conservation bill
here provides appropriations for the support
4219
of these agencies involved in the functional
area of transportation and the ones that I've
mentioned. And I would be glad to answer any
specific questions that anyone has.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, would you recognize Senator Smith
for purposes of an amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Smith.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you,
Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment
at the desk. I request that the reading of
the amendment be waived, and I would like to
be heard on the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have
received the amendment, Senator Smith. And
your request for having the reading waived is
granted, and you are now afforded the
opportunity to explain the amendment.
SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very
much, Mr. President. As when we were doing
the original budget proposals, I will be
extremely brief and to the point.
4220
The amendments would offer an
additional revenue for mass transit in the
amount of $25 million for upstate and
$50 million for downstate. These increases
would come from the expected mass transit
operating reserve fund surpluses.
Also, we would request an addition
of $35 million to be added to ensure that
every train in the city of New York has a
conductor on it. And it has been seen in the
recent months that it is necessary to ensure
that we have an additional person on those
trains in the City, and that is exactly what
the amendment requests.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
Senator wishing to speak on the amendment?
The question is on the amendment.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Party vote in
the affirmative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll.
SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
4221
the party line votes and announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment fails.
Senator Seabrook.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes, there's an
amendment at the desk, Mr. President. And I
would like to -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
an amendment at the desk. Are you asking that
its reading be waived and you have an
opportunity to explain it?
Senator Seabrook, the reading is
waived and you now have the opportunity to
explain the amendment.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes. On this
bill, we'd like to amend it where there is a
section that we'd like stricken from the Jobs
Now program. Where there's $45 million, we'd
like to have that new line inserted that it
would have $41,500,000 into the new jobs
program and that $3,500,000 be inserted for
women- and minority-owned business programs in
4222
this state.
And if we are about the business of
expanding and developing job creation and job
development, that we're also interested in
giving opportunities to minorities and to
women-owned businesses. So therefore, we're
asking that $3.5 million be placed into the
minority -- -- women-owned business program.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Move the
amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the amendment. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Party vote in
the affirmative.
SENATOR SKELOS: Negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll, record the party
line vote, and announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment fails.
Any other member wishing to speak
4223
on the main bill?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would you
recognize Senator Seabrook?
Do we have a second amendment? Oh,
excuse me.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 1280,
Senate 5808.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
4224
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1208, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print
5808, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
Law, in relation to state reimbursement.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
SENATOR STAFFORD: This is 5808,
Mr. President?
This bill is an act to amend
Article 7 in implementing language provisions
relating to transportation. And we all know,
due to the Court of Appeals decision a number
of years ago -- I believe it was the bank's
decision -- we now go through this procedure.
And I think everyone understands why we now
have, in effect, language bills.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation
sufficient.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seabrook.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes, Mr.
president. There's an amendment at the desk,
and I'd ask that the reading of it be waived,
with an explanation of the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
an amendment at the desk, Senator Seabrook.
4225
We will waive the reading of the amendment,
and you now are afforded the opportunity to
explain the amendment.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Well, we'd
like to -- this amendment would remove Section
19, which would basically strike out the
language that -- also make it inclusive but
also with a focus on minority groups and
women, so that they can have this opportunity
to participate in all of these five-year
periods that we're talking about the state has
really moved and progressed economically and
financially.
So therefore, we are asking that an
emphasis and focus be given to minority- and
women-owned businesses, as it has been in the
past. So if we removed the Section 19 from
this amendment, it would certainly afford them
the opportunity to participate in this
flourishing development and growth for the
last five years.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
member wishing to speak on the amendment?
The question is on the amendment.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
4226
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Party vote in
the affirmative.
SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll and record the
party line vote and announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment fails.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
act shall take effect April 1st.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1208 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and Seabrook.
Ayes, 55. Nays, 3.
4227
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on 3286 as well.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar
Number 1208, Senator? Or, excuse me, 1207?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes,
Mr. President. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator Duane
will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 1207.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 1209,
Senate 3287A.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1209, Budget Bill, Senate Print 3287A, an act
making appropriations for the support of
government, public protection, health and
4228
mental hygiene budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment
at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Duane, the amendment is at the desk. You are
now asking for the reading to be waived and
for an opportunity to explain it?
SENATOR DUANE: I would request
that.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your
request is granted. You are now afforded the
opportunity to explain the amendment.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
much, Mr. President. This amendment provides
for additional funding for, for instance,
senior programs, a nutritional program, the
naturally occurring retirement community to
support them, the congregate services,
services for community-based organizations
providing programs for older New Yorkers.
In addition, money would be
provided to the AIDS Institute to provide
4229
treatment compliance for persons with AIDS.
As I'm sure many of you are aware, that has
worked very well in virtually eliminating
tuberculosis from our cities. This would help
people with AIDS to take the difficult regimen
of drugs which will keep them alive.
In addition, there's money for
community health programs, providing family
planning services, maternal and child health
programs, school-based clinics, all of which
will help provide for a healthier next
generation in our state. And there's also a
million dollars for protection of our
reproductive services clinics. And I would
like to give a thank you to Senator
Schneiderman for that particular part of this
amendment.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
Senator wishing to speak on the amendment?
The question is on the amendment.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Party vote in
the affirmative.
SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
4230
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll, record the party
line votes, announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36, party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment fails.
Senator Gentile, why do you rise?
THE SECRETARY: Yes,
Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment
at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is,
Senator Gentile.
SENATOR GENTILE: I'd ask that
the reading be waived and allow me to explain.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your
question is granted.
SENATOR GENTILE: Great. Thank
you, Mr. President.
This amendment would add monies to
the aid to localities for the EPIC program so
that the income limits will be raised for our
senior citizens to participate in the EPIC
4231
prescription drug program.
I've said it before on this floor
and I'll say it again. As of January 1st of
this year, we have a new set of refugees here
in the state of New York, and those refugees
are the HMO refugees. Those are the 55,000
seniors across the state of New York who were
dropped by their HMOs as of January 1, 1999.
And as a result of being dropped by their
HMOs, many of them, many of those 55,000
cannot afford to get another health policy or
Medigap policy that will cover prescription
drug use. As a result, we have many, many,
many seniors without coverage for prescription
drugs.
This amendment will increase the
EPIC program, the eligibility limits so that
more seniors can participate and more of those
seniors would be covered. Today's New York
Times, the first page of the New York Times
talks about how this is an issue across this
country and how the Republicans and the
Democrats in Congress are putting together
legislation to help the seniors across this
country with prescription drug coverage.
4232
We need to do that in this state.
We are a compassionate state. And when I hear
stories about seniors not able to afford food
and clothing because they have to spend full
amounts on prescription drugs, it hurts. When
I hear particularly a woman who in this state
had to spend $300 a month for prescription
drugs and then use the rest of her fixed
income for food and had to buy cat food on a
monthly basis because that's all she could
afford, that's outrageous in the state of New
York.
We are a compassionate state. And
I've spoken to many of my members -- many of
the members on the other side, and many of the
members on the other side of the aisle agree
that something needs to be done in this area.
So I'm asking for the compassion of this body
and for the compassion of the state of New
York to show through with this amendment.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
Senator wishing to speak on the amendment?
Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very
4233
much, Mr. President.
Just for the record, I'd like to
state that in the Senate Majority's budget
proposal, there is $4 million, an additional
$4 million for the EPIC program. And last
year -- in last year's budget, for the first
time in many years, the EPIC program was
expanded to the extent of I think around
$12 million additional going into the EPIC
program, which has greatly enhanced the
program.
More seniors can -- the income
eligibility, I say, was dramatically decreased
and the results were immediate, Mr. President.
There are today more seniors enrolled in EPIC
than there have been since the program's
inception. And December of 1998 marked the
first month that there were more seniors added
to the EPIC rolls than were taken off of the
enrollment figures for EPIC.
So the Senate Majority is
concentrating on the EPIC program. We made -
we took a very large step towards ensuring
that more seniors would be eligible for the
EPIC program last year to the tune of
4234
$12 million, and the Senate Majority has put
an additional $4 million in this year's
budget. And the EPIC program is expanding and
covering more and more seniors.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the amendment. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Party vote in
the affirmative.
SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll, record the party
line votes, announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment fails.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
4235
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative are Senators Dollinger and Duane.
Ayes, 56. Nays, 2.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 1210,
Senate 5810.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1210, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print
5810, an act to amend the Executive Law, in
relation to reimbursement.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number
1210 has been requested by Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you,
Mr. President.
4236
Mr. President, this bill again is
implementing language relating to the public
protection budget. There was a time when we
didn't find this necessary. Again, due to the
Court of Appeals decision, we have these two
separate bills.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation
satisfactory.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1210 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and Seabrook.
Ayes, 55. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
4237
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 1211,
Senate 3288A.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1211, Budget Bill, Senate Print 3288A, an act
making appropriations for the support of
government, education, labor, and family
assistance budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: No reason,
Mr. President. Just changing seats.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you
for changing seats.
Senator Paterson, thank you for
showing up.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR PATERSON: I'm back.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
Excuse me. Senator Hevesi, why do
you rise?
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President, I
4238
believe there's an amendment at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
an amendment at the desk, Senator Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you. I
ask that its reading be waived, and I wish to
be heard on the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
reading of the amendment is waived, and you're
now afforded the opportunity to explain the
amendment.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you.
Mr. President, this amendment that's before us
would add $600 million to the state budget in
recognition of prior year school aid claims.
I've spoken on this floor numerous
times this session on this issue, and I'm much
dismayed that we have not yet addressed the
issue. And it now joins a long litany of
issues, including hate crimes, including
clinic access, that we have just failed to
address.
And it's really tragic. It's
tragic for all the children in the state of
New York and particularly the children in the
city of New York, because the city of New York
4239
is currently owed $725 million in prior year
school aid claims. All of the school
districts -- or not all of them, many of the
school districts throughout the rest of the
state in the aggregate are owed in excess of
$95 million in prior year school aid claims
which have not been addressed.
And the city of New York, as a
result of a lack of payment, has not submitted
additional claims in excess of $400 million,
meaning that the state's outstanding
obligation to the entire state, and
particularly the City, exceeds $1.1 billion.
And 88 percent of that is owed to the City of
New York, with the remaining 12 percent owed
to the other school districts throughout the
state, which is -- makes particularly ironic
the terrible situation whereby a section of
the State Education Law currently precludes
any one school district from receiving in
excess of 40 percent of whatever aid is
allocated in recognition of prior year claims
this year or in any year. Which means that
since the Executive budget includes
$36 million, the City of New York will only
4240
get $14.4 million this year, though we are
owed $1.1 billion. It is outrageous and
tragic.
The amendment that's before us will
go somewhere in terms of finding the right
direction in order to finally address this
problem. And I must say, Mr. President, that
at a time when we have crumbling school
buildings in the city of New York and we have
educational problems throughout the entire
state, we're trying to reduce class sizes,
we're trying to implement universal pre-K, not
to address this issue -- maybe because we have
some kind of institutional inertia which says,
kind of analogous to what's going on with the
budget, "Well, we haven't adopted a budget on
time in 15 years, so I guess we don't have to
do it this year -- "We haven't addressed this
prior year school aid problem in over 10
years, so I guess we don't have to address it
-- it's disgraceful.
And to highlight the disgrace, this
year, if by the end of this month the City of
New York does not receive $39 million, the
City of New York will forfeit $39 million
4241
because those claims are in excess of 10 years
and because of accounting procedures, the
money has to be written off. So the
schoolkids in the City of New York lose
$39 million this year if we fail to act. And
we're cheating them and the kids in every
other school district that's owed money under
prior year claims every single year we fail to
act.
Let's do something about this
eventually, and maybe we will have left here
at some point saying that this was a
productive legislative session. I urge all of
my colleagues to support this amendment. And
in the unlikely event that it does not pass, I
would request that in the conference committee
process, should we ever get to it, that this
issue receive the highest consideration.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, on the amendment.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, I just want to rise and second my
colleague, Senator Hevesi, on this amendment.
I can remember, Mr. President, when
I was coming of political age in the late
4242
1960s, I kept reading all these stories about
the debtor nations. These were nations that
owed debts -- they were mostly Third World
nations, and they owed debts to First World
countries, hundreds of millions of dollars of
debtor nations. And they were strange places
like Paraguay and Uruguay and Costa Rica and
Honduras. And they were these terrible debtor
nations.
And now we're running this debtor
state that owes a billion one in back school
claims, $900 million to the City of New York,
money to my school districts, both Brighton
and Greece and the City of Rochester. And now
I find out -- I get elected in the great state
of New York and I find out we're one of those
debtor states. We owe a billion one and we
don't pay our bills.
Senator Hevesi seems to me to be
doing exactly what a good conservative would
do. Before you start spending the money to do
new things, let's take care of the old debts,
let's get them paid. This makes so much
eminent sense. It would be such a good
message to send to our school districts. It
4243
would be a wonderful message to send to people
like bond traders. They might even raise our
bond ratings, scuttled down near the bottom of
our bond rating, if we began to pay some of
our outstanding bills.
It's a shame that 39 million's
going to fall off the table, Senator Hevesi,
while we continue to wait for these bills to
be paid. But my guess is that that's the
first $39 million, an installment, of a debt
that's going to continue to shrink not because
we're paying it off but because it's lapsing
through accounting practices. I agree with
you, it's a disgrace.
Let's stop being a debtor state.
Let's be a creditor state in favor of our
school districts. It starts with passing this
amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the amendment. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Party vote in
the affirmative.
SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in
the negative.
4244
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll, record the party
line vote, announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair
recognizes Senator Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes, I believe
there's an amendment at the chair,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment was defeated, the previous
amendment.
Senator Lachman, there is an
amendment under -- yes, at the desk. You want
to waive reading -
SENATOR LACHMAN: I'd like to
waive the reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're
afforded the opportunity to explain it at the
this moment.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Fine. Thank
you kindly.
Whether we're from north, east,
4245
south, west New York State, all of us are
justly proud of the State University of New
York. The State University of New York is the
largest public university in the United
States. It has four crown jewels, as we know:
Stony Brook, Albany, Buffalo, and Binghamton.
But it also has some of the finest community
colleges in the nation. And these community
colleges are hurting. The tuition for
community colleges in the State University of
New York are the highest of any state
university in the United States.
Now, my amendment, Mr. President,
increases the community college base aid by
$75 per full-time tuition, FTEs. Now, if we
don't vote affirmatively on this, the State
University of New York will have to increase
tuition at the community colleges in the State
University of New York. It impacts upon all
our communities. It also will of course
impact on the City University of New York.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the amendment. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in
4246
the affirmative.
SENATOR SKELOS: Negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll, record the party
line votes, announce the results.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22. Nays,
36. Party vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendment is lost.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negative vote and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
2. Senators Dollinger and Duane recorded in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
4247
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 1212,
Senate Print 5809.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1212, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print
5809, an act to amend the Education Law, the
Local Finance Law, and Chapter 58 of the Laws
of 1998.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Padavan, why do you rise?
SENATOR PADAVAN: On the bill,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Padavan, on the bill.
SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
there's a portion of this bill, regrettably -
because there's so much in this bill that's
desirable and worthwhile to the people of this
state. But a section of it on page 36 and 37
relates to the resurrection of a casino game
which has been labeled Quick Draw.
Those of you who were here in 1995
will recall that the way it got through, in my
4248
view, was because it was coupled with a bill
that also had some very significant positive
aspects, primarily a tax cut. There was a
great deal of resistance throughout the
Legislature for initiating this form of
gambling in New York State, so many things
were done to try and placate those who were in
opposition.
One of the things that was required
in that enacting law was a study to determine
the impact that Quick Draw would have upon the
people of this state, particularly as it
related to the social impact with regard to
those who are prone to problem gambling and
those who are compulsive gamblers.
That study has never been done. At
least I've not seen it. A firm was contracted
for, with, to do it, Goldfarb Associates, a
marketing firm that has done work for
lotteries. And we were certainly prone to
criticize that initiative because we felt, as
many others would feel, that if a study were
to be done, it should be done by experts in
the fields of problem gambling and related
areas.
4249
So there is no study, so that
legislative requirement has not been met. If
there were no other reason, certainly that one
would stand out as why we should not be
including a resurrection of Quick Draw in the
budget bill now before us. But there are many
other reasons.
While the State Lottery Division
and OMH, which in the statute was charged with
the responsibility -- the Office of Mental
Health -- in conjunction with our State
Council on Problem Gambling to do this, have
not met that requirement, others have.
Our State Council on Problem
Gambling did studies, there were two of them.
And in one of those studies, and I will quote
the director. She said, "The only data
available at this time is the Council's
prevalent studies and reports to its 24-hour
help line." That's an 800 number that people
call if they are in trouble or feel they are
in trouble, and obviously those who do are
quite desperate. This research documents the
adverse impacts from Quick Draw and the
pervasiveness of alcohol use among New York
4250
State's problem gambling population. I
repeat, this research documents the adverse
impacts from Quick Draw.
And if you read that entire study,
we see that thousands and thousands of people
have now been drawn into the problems related
to gambling in this state because of something
we did in 1995. Shame on us. But more shame
because we're going to do it again if this
prevails.
Now, there's another, broader study
that's just been completed, and I'm sure
you're all aware of the fact that there is a
national federal commission that's been
traveling throughout the country dealing with
all of the aspects of gambling. And they
published their preliminary report, and their
final report will be in a couple of weeks.
And in this study, they have come up with
pages after pages of recommendations of what
should be done at the state level, at the
federal level, in every area of gambling you
can think of.
But I would like to focus on what
their recommendations are with regard to this
4251
issue. The commission received testimony that
convenience gambling, such as electronic
devices -- and that's what Quick Draw is. A
screen, every five minutes you fill out a
card, pick out numbers. You can bet up to a
hundred dollars on that card, depending on how
fast you are. You can let them pick the
numbers and do it in an instant. The
commission received testimony that convenience
gambling such as electronic devices in
neighborhood outlets provides fewer economic
benefits and creates potentially greater
social costs by making gambling more available
and accessible. The commission recommends
that states should not authorize any further
convenience gambling operations and should
cease and roll back existing operations.
And obviously we're sticking our
thumb right in their eye because we're doing
just the reverse.
One other recommendation that I
would like to bring to your attention
indicates their recommendation that states
with lotteries reduce their sales dependence
on low-income, less educated minorities and
4252
heavy players in a variety of ways, including
limiting advertising and the number of outlets
in low-income areas.
The fact remains that of the almost
3,000 Quick Draw outlets, the majority of them
are in low-to-middle-income communities, the
very people that the federal commission is
citing in this recommendation. And we're
sucking a half a billion dollars out of their
pockets with Quick Draw alone, a half a
billion dollars that would be going into the
economy in true economic development.
Proponents of Quick Draw have cited
the loss of jobs to those outlets that provide
Quick Draw. Well, I don't know. We've been
out of Quick Draw now for a little over two
months, and I don't see these places closing
and I don't see any mass unemployment and I
don't see any negative impact. But what I do
see is a positive impact, fewer people getting
hooked. Fewer families getting hurt when
daddy loses his paycheck because he stopped at
a neighborhood bar and blew it on a Quick Draw
terminal.
And so, Mr. President, without
4253
belaboring the issue much further, I would
like to say that I find this inclusion of
resurrecting Quick Draw, for all the reasons
I've stated and many more that we could talk
about, to be a major mistake.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.President, I
just rise -- I've shared Senator Padavan's
view about this, the question of New York
State and not only the loss of Quick Draw but
the loss of the lottery. And I agree with
everything he said. Which is unusual, I
think, Senator Padavan, that we'd be in that
position.
But certainly the Quick Draw
problem continues to be, in my judgment,
purely and simply a poor people's tax. And
we're removing $500 million worth of income,
disposable income, to families that just don't
have it. The poorest people in this state are
contributing $500 million to Quick Draw.
I would suggest that if we sat here
and said the poorest people in this state are
taking $500 million of their money and
4254
virtually throwing it away, virtually burning
it, we would sit here and say that's a
tragedy, that's an absolute tragedy. Instead,
they're trying to get them using the Lottery's
famous "Dollar in a Dream," "$5 in a Dream,"
"$20 in a Dream," "$10,000 in a Dream." We
have hooked them through our own advertising
efforts. We have created this problem, and
it's time to end it.
And I would just concur with him as
well with respect to the advertising in the
lottery. I would hope someday that we might
take a look at the advertising right here in
New York and find that it is terribly
misleading. They recently changed the nature
of the games in the lottery. They said more
prizes, more opportunities to win. And what
in actual fact they did was reduce the overall
prize money to increase the take from the
lottery. I think it's a disgrace. I continue
to think of it as a disgrace. And yet we move
down this road of state-sponsored gambling
with no end in sight.
I concur with Senator Padavan.
I've voted against other parts of the budget.
4255
I'm going to vote against this piece because
of this plank right here. It's a huge, huge
mistake.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 81. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results when
tabulated.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1212 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, Montgomery,
Onorato, Padavan, Paterson, Schneiderman, and
Stachowski. Ayes, 50. Nays, 8.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Alesi, why do you rise?
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President,
may I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1200.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
4256
objection, hearing no objection, Senator Alesi
will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 1200.
Senator Maziarz, why do you rise?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very
much, Mr. President. Mr. President, I'd like
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar Number 1200.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Maziarz will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1200.
Senator Schneiderman, why do you do
rise?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
President, I ask unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1098.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative
on Calendar Number 1098.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could return to reports of -- motions
4257
and resolutions, there's a privileged
resolution at the desk, 1711, by Senator
Fuschillo. I ask that the title be read and
move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to
the order of motions and resolutions.
There is a privileged resolution by
Fuschillo at the desk. The Secretary will
read the title.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Fuschillo, Legislative Resolution Number 1711,
honoring Edward P. Mavragis for his dedicated
service as Superintendent of the Seaford Union
Free School District.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Stachowski, why do you
rise?
4258
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.President,
I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1072 and
Calendar Number 1200.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Stachowski will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1072 and Calendar Number 1200.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
before we go back to reports of standing
committees, I just want to remind the members
that we still have Senator Bonacic's bill to
complete and then Senator Volker also has a
bill.
If we could return to reports of
standing committees, I believe there's a
report of the Rules Committee at the desk. I
ask that it be read.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to
the order of reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read the report
of the Rules Committee.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
from the Committee on Rules, reports the
4259
following bills directly for third reading:
Senate Print 4, by Senator Bruno,
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly;
Senate 236A, by Senator Kruger, an
act authorizing the City of New York;
961, by Senator Alesi, an act in
relation in permitting;
1534, by Senator Goodman, an act to
amend the Public Health Law;
1557, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
1838, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
1969, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Public Health Law;
3069, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;
3245, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
3683A, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend Chapter 69 of the Laws of 1992;
3896, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the State Finance Law;
4134A, by Senator Marcellino, an
4260
act to amend the Environmental Conservation
Law;
4162A, by Senator Wright, an act to
amend the Public Service Law;
4207, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend the State Finance Law;
4298, by Senator Bruno, an act in
relation to the timeliness of the election of
the Village of Castleton-on-the-Hudson;
4322, by Senator McGee, an act to
amend the New York State Urban Development
Corporation Act;
4484, by Senator Goodman, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
4546A, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend the Tax Law;
4754, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
4762, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
Transportation Law;
4810, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Environmental Conservation Law;
4886, by Senator Goodman, an act to
amend Chapter 188 of the Laws of 1862;
4261
4900A, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
4959, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Town Law;
5014A, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
Insurance Law;
5054, by Senator Hoffmann, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
Insurance Law;
5069, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
5086, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend Chapter 693 of the Laws of 1996;
5198, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the administrative code of the City of
New York;
5616, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
5661, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the Real Property Law;
5676A, by Senator Larkin, an act to
authorize the Commissioner of the Department
of Transportation;
5732, by Senator Bonacic, an act in
4262
relation to adjusting.
All bills directly for third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. President,
I move to accept the report of the Rules
Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
motion is to accept the report of the Rules
Committee. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Rules
Report is accepted. The bills are ordered
directly to third reading.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, could we return to the
controversial calendar and call up Calendar
Number 1150, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
4263
Secretary will read Calendar Number 1150,
temporarily laid aside earlier today.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1150, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4471A,
an act in relation to enacting the Christopher
Gardner Memorial Act.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the
sponsor yield to a couple of questions,
Mr. President?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield to a question?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: First of all,
Senator, one of the things I just want to make
sure I understand about this bill is that this
bill applies when the newborn child tests
positive for drugs or alcohol; isn't that
correct?
SENATOR BONACIC: That is
correct.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
4264
through you, Mr. President, if Senator Bonacic
will continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I will continue
to yield to all of his questions.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: That would
mean, through you, Mr. President, that the
mother had been exposed to drugs or alcohol
during a period of time shortly before the
delivery of the child. Is that what this bill
seeks to do, is to detect that?
SENATOR BONACIC: That particular
section of the legislation, the answer is yes.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I
understand it -- again, through you,
Mr. President -- that's because the presence
of drugs or alcohol in the blood system of the
mother creates a danger to that child, a
danger of physical abuse; is that correct?
This deals with the potential for physical
abuse; isn't that correct?
SENATOR BONACIC: The legislation
is broader than that. It could be emotional
abuse, it could be, well, sexual abuse or
4265
malnutrition.
But your answer was -- I would say
yes to your question.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question,
through you, Mr. President, if that's the
goal -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The goal of
your legislation is to say that parents who
are abusing drugs or alcohol should have their
children removed from them; is that correct?
SENATOR BONACIC: No. No.
It's -- you're narrowly defining the
legislation, and it's much broader and
comprehensive than that.
What the legislation is saying,
that if a newborn is born and -- with urine or
blood and there's drugs in the urine or the
blood, that's a red flag. A danger sign goes
up. And then we have to look at this
situation more carefully.
4266
And you will then have a family
court judge have the people before him, the
mother and any other people in the household,
and the judge will make a determination that
perhaps there were extenuating circumstances
and may put the baby back into the house with
the mother. And have, you know, social
services coming in and looking, and counseling
for drug abuse, and try to give assistance to
that family and make it stronger. And the
baby could be with the family, not necessarily
snatched and/or removed.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. But,
through you, Mr. President -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, are you asking Senator Bonacic to
yield to another set of questions?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
President.
SENATOR BONACIC: I do. I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I
understand it, though, what you see and what
this legislation is designed to do is to say
4267
that there's a correlation between those
children who are exposed to drugs or alcohol
in utero and the potential for some abuse,
some form of abuse after they're born?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yeah, we're
saying there is a correlation, that to put
that child and reunite them in the house with
the mother where there may be drug activity
creates a risk of danger or harm. And it
creates a rebuttable presumption, by the way,
on behalf of the mother to go forward and say
that's not the case.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But through
you, Mr. President, that only involves the
conduct of the mother of the child. It
doesn't involve the conduct of the father of
the child, who could be a drug and alcohol
abuser and would be a far greater danger to
the child than its mother. Isn't that
correct?
SENATOR BONACIC: That is
correct.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: So what this
bill really does is it singles out women who
are drug abusers and substance abusers, and
4268
says to them if you have a child, we are going
to create a rebuttable presumption that we'll
remove your child, but if your husband or your
boyfriend, the father of the child is a drug
and alcohol abuser, this bill does nothing to
detect that, even though I believe the
statistics show that the male parent is a far
greater danger to the child than the female
parent. Isn't that correct?
SENATOR BONACIC: Let's go back a
minute. We're talking specifically now on a
newborn child, as opposed to many reasons why
a child beyond the newborn stage is removed
from a household. It could be drug activity
in that household; it could be, as I said,
sexual abuse; it could be neglect,
malnutrition, emotional abuse. It could be an
assortment of all of these things.
But on the newborn situation which
you're focusing on, the family court will not
only look into the mother's activities, it
will look into her relationships with
everybody else that's in that household and
whether or not that baby should be returned to
that household.
4269
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But again,
through you, Mr. President -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do. I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: This bill
does nothing to prevent child abuse if the
father of -- this portion of the bill does
nothing to prevent child abuse, mental abuse,
the abuse you've talked about, if the father
is the culprit and the mother is clean; is
that correct?
Because the mother of the child -
since the child gets its blood system from its
mother, if the mother -- the father is a drug
and alcohol abuser but the mother is clean,
this bill says that the child -- there's no
presumption created, there's no removal,
there's no light that goes off that suggests
there's a problem, but the child is introduced
into a family where the father could be the
perpetrator of those kinds of abuse.
SENATOR BONACIC: In those -- in
4270
that particular circumstances, you're right,
you'll need something else to trigger an event
in that household to cause intervention.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. If
that's the case -- again, through you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, you're asking Senator Bonacic to
yield again?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: If you
believe that the presence of drug and alcohol
abuse is a -- of a parent is a signal for
potential abuse of the child, why doesn't this
bill say that if you're convicted of driving
while intoxicated or if you test positive for
drugs in your employment, that you trigger the
exact same issues? Why shouldn't we look at,
since your corollary is if the parents, either
one of parents are abusing drugs, there's a
potential for abuse of the child, an
unreasonable potential, an intolerable
potential for that, why don't we say that
4271
anytime a parent with a child under age 18 is
convicted of driving while intoxicated, is -
tests positive in an employment context, why
wouldn't your bill immediately trigger the
same response? Why is it just pregnant women
and newborn mothers who bear the
responsibility for this?
SENATOR BONACIC: I think we're
trying to achieve a balance in preserving the
family unit and not overly intervene every
time there is an incident of an adult in a
household and how it affects the child or
children in that household.
So I would say to you that, you
know, the legislation doesn't cover that.
It -- one of the things that I'd like to point
out to you, if I may, that -- I'll just take a
second, if I may -- "Young children remain at
high risk for loss of life. Between 1995 and
1997, 78 percent of these children were less
than five years old at the time of their
death."
So the particularly young children
seem to be more vulnerable. And we're saying
when the baby is born -- and that is the most
4272
innocent victim, that needs the most
safeguards and protection, we're going to take
a look in those circumstances into the family
household and whether the baby should be
returned to that household starting out.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Mr. President, if Senator Bonacic
will continue to yield.
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: What happens
under your bill if the mother tests positive,
the father does not test positive, and the
court makes a determination that the mother is
not fit to have the child but that the father
is and the mother and father are still living
together? What do you do?
SENATOR BONACIC: I think under
our bill, it's what's in the best interests of
the child. And I think that the family court
judge makes a determination, on balance, of
whether or not in that family environment the
health and safety and best interest of the
child is preserved or not.
4273
If the court finds in that specific
instance that there are overbearing
circumstances that the best interests of the
child would be jeopardized having, let's say,
a bad mom and a good dad, that child is
removed.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. A
couple of quick questions, through you,
Mr. President, on the specifics of the bill,
and then I'll -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The provision
of the bill that deals with the fatality
review team, that team, as I read the
legislation, is given very broad powers to
investigate child fatalities. Does it require
that those fatalities be in any way related to
the alcohol or substance abuse of either
parent?
SENATOR BONACIC: It does not.
It's -- it's -- they're comprehensive, to do a
4274
broad investigation as to what caused the
death of the child. And it -- alcohol or
drugs may not be part of what caused the death
of the child.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if Senator Bonacic will
continue to yield.
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, why
wouldn't we just simply have a mandatory
referral to the district attorney's office to
investigate fatalities of children under the
age of 5 or 7? As you know, grand juries have
the ability not only to issue indictments but
can issue reports, can issue determinations,
white papers, can come up with fact-finding
about circumstances which could lead to
beneficial legislative changes or changes in
policies and procedures.
Why create another level of
government when we could simply refer to the
district attorney, have him sent it off to a
grand jury, and have that same kind of
4275
investigation occur?
SENATOR BONACIC: I think that's
a fair question. I think on the fatality
review board it does call -- at local option,
by the way -- for a member of the district
attorney's office to participate. But we also
require a person from Child and Protective
Services. There were, I think, three or four
categories.
And people with specialties we
thought could lend more wisdom in determining
not only the cause of death but what steps
could be done to prevent future deaths,
whether they make recommendations -- it would
be broader, and a broader base to analyze the
problem. But I'm not saying that only a
district attorney couldn't do what you're
suggesting.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you
very much, Mr. President. I appreciate
Senator Bonacic's candid evaluation and
responses to my questions.
On the bill, Mr. President. This
bill stems from a laudable premise. And the
premise is that children in a household where
4276
a parent is abusing drugs or alcohol creates a
potential of harm to the child. That
premise -- and I agree with Senator Bonacic.
I agree that that's a premise that ought to
drive us to do something. The question
becomes, what do we do? What's reasonable for
us to do?
This bill says, when it's broken
down -- at least the critical part of it that
I quizzed Senator Bonacic on -- this bill says
that if the mother tests positive for either
drugs or alcohol, the State of New York, the
state, the government, will have the ability
to remove the child from, potentially, the
child's family, which could include both the
mother and the father, even if the father
tests without any presence of drugs or alcohol
at all.
This bill says that the State of
New York will decide whether the child will be
given over to its parents. This bill does not
require the father to be tested at the time of
birth. It says that the child's going to be
tested and, because the child gets its blood
system from its mother, that if the mother has
4277
drugs or alcohol, then there's an unreasonable
threat, an intolerable threat to the child.
I would suggest to Senator Bonacic
that the -- I agree with his premise. I go
back to my original comment, I agree with the
premise. But I would suggest that it's the
father oftentimes, including -- or the
roommates, the male roommates, as in the case
of the child who was tragically killed, which
Senator Bonacic is attempting to put onto this
bill, give this bill a name -- which I also
appreciate. But I would suggest that it's the
male presence that poses the great danger to
the child. And this bill doesn't deal with
the dangers posed by fathers to their
children, it only deals with the correlation
between the blood alcohol of the mother and
the blood alcohol of the child.
To that extent, Mr. President, I
think the bill unfairly singles out women,
pregnant women and women who have just given
birth. I would suggest to Senator Bonacic if
he wants to be consistent in his theory -
that is, that high levels or that the blood
alcohol and the use of drugs and alcohol by a
4278
parent are a danger to the child -- I would
suggest that logical consistency would drive
us to a position where we would say if you're
found guilty of driving while intoxicated, if
you're found to be using drugs at your place
of employment, if we believe that drug and
alcohol use on the part of the parents creates
a danger to the child, the logical corollary
would be to say we're going to start looking
at this every time there's a report, every
time someone is arrested for DWI, we're going
to create a rebuttable presumption that you're
no longer fit to be a parent.
Why wouldn't we do that? And I
would suggest because we all know that that
bill would mean fathers would suddenly be
found in large numbers to be unfit to be
parents because of their use of alcohol. And
I would suggest that's why we wouldn't do it,
because it would be too pervasive. Yet why do
we do it for pregnant women and women who've
just given birth? Why do we single out this
most defenseless group of women when we won't
hold adult men to the same standard? Instead,
we're going to hold young mothers to it.
4279
I'm not sure, Senator Bonacic -
and believe me, I strongly support the best
interests of the child as the test for these
decisions about children. And I agree that
there are thousands of examples where the
family court judges have to step in and figure
out is this the right thing, for a child, to
do or not? And I also agree that you could
create a rebuttable presumption that drug and
alcohol use by the mother is a danger to the
child.
I will also tell you there is one
other, I believe, irrebuttable presumption
that we can never forget, that the best thing
for a child is to be held in its mother's
arms. And it seems to me that we cannot
single out women, we cannot single out young,
pregnant women.
If what we want to do is to say if
you use drugs and alcohol, it's presumed that
you're going to be a bad parent and we're
going to look at your family life to determine
if you should still have jurisdiction over
your kids, I could live with that. Maybe -
at least it would be worth discussion.
4280
But to single out pregnant women
alone, young women, for this test, to ignore
the responsibilities of the fathers, to
immediately throw them into the family court
and to deal with the other issue -- that is,
the issue of how do they rebut that
presumption when oftentimes they don't have
the financial resources to do it -- I think
that's an enormous burden to throw on them.
I would hope that our social
services would intervene with children as
quickly as they can. But I'm very leary of
giving Big Brother the ability to take over
where mom and dad should be playing out. This
is Big Brother singling out young mothers, and
I think, when all is said and done, it's
unfair.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
if the sponsor would yield to a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield to a question from
Senator Morahan?
4281
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Senator, under
current law is there any set of circumstances
wherein a child can be removed from a
household or a home setting that -- where the
child is in jeopardy?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, there is.
The family court could make a judgment now
that there is a harm or danger to the child
and it's not in their best interest to stay
there and could do that, yes.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Will the
sponsor continue to yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
SENATOR MORAHAN: And would those
circumstances usually occur by someone
bringing something to the attention of the
court, either by way of complaint or some
other evidentiary way?
SENATOR BONACIC: Yes. Normally
a complaint would come from a member of the
family. Perhaps it could be couples that are
split, through the father against the mother.
4282
It could be an uncle or an aunt. Usually it's
a family member that has knowledge of what's
going on.
But the problem that's facing a
family court judge is there's a tendency to
try to preserve the family unit. And what we
want to do is to give that judge a clear
direction that the standard will not be just
the family unit but what is the best interest
and safety of the child. It gives a
statutory, clear direction not only to the
judge, to district attorneys, to social
service agencies, to anyone that deals in this
field in protecting children.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Will the
sponsor continue to yield, Mr. President?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Would it be
fair to say that on testing of the child that
this is another methodology to see if there's
something that either child protective
services or someone else should look into or
investigate?
SENATOR BONACIC: Right now, if a
child was born with drugs either in its blood
4283
or urine, that would not trigger any
presumption. The child would be returned to
the household.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Will the
sponsor continue to yield, Mr. Chairman?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do. I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR MORAHAN: And so
therefore, if there is a finding in the blood
or the urine of the newborn babe, that would
not necessarily result in the taking away from
the mother or the household or the father or
the family unit that child, in and by itself?
SENATOR BONACIC: That is
correct. It would just give a family court
judge an opportunity to look at what are the
circumstances why this occurred and would it
be safe to return the child to the mother.
And I would presume, not knowing
exactly how it would work, but nine times -
maybe 90 times out of 100, that child would be
with the mother, with special counseling and
4284
special monitoring by the child and family
services.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Would the
sponsor continue to yield, Mr. President?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MORAHAN: So after an
investigation that goes to family court, et
cetera -- now, earlier there was some comment
about an infant's death and the investigation
thereof. Is there anything in your bill that
would preclude or take away or interfere with
the authority of a sitting district attorney?
SENATOR BONACIC: This bill in no
way diminishes any of the authority of a
district attorney to investigate the cause of
the death of an infant.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Would he
continue to yield, Mr. Chairman?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
4285
SENATOR MORAHAN: Therefore, in
the case of any suspicious death the district
attorney the would be the prosecutor?
SENATOR BONACIC: That's assuming
that an indictment occurred. We have a
fatality review in the case of an infant death
to see -- it may never result in an
indictment, but it could result in a changing
of policies or state legislation as a
deterrent to try to do things to make children
more safe and not have a repeat occurrence.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Sponsor.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Hearing none -- Senator Bonacic.
SENATOR BONACIC: Just to close.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, to close discussion on the bill.
SENATOR BONACIC: You know, one
of the things that I was reflecting on when I
heard Senator Dollinger speaking on how it's
unfair if a baby, a newborn, was removed from
the mother, or perhaps if there was a driving
while intoxicated of the father, that maybe we
4286
should review whether a child should be taken
from the household.
I do believe that what has been
happening in the United States in the last ten
years has been very disturbing, when I would
say a generation ago we have not seen the
rising incidence of child abuse and deaths
that we're seeing in our country in the last
ten years. And it is a statistical fact that
young children are dying as a result of child
abuse in the families.
And when they do investigate,
75 percent, approximately, of the times the
culprit was a parent, as to why that child
died. Now, it could have been malnutrition,
just not feeding a young child enough. It
could have been physical abuse. It could have
been sexual abuse. And I'm only talking about
incidences where there's deaths. What about
incidents where the child survives and there's
just permanent scars, not only physically but
mentally, that that child must bear for the
rest of their lives?
So what we have to do, I humbly
believe, is to give a clear direction in those
4287
isolated and minimal cases where the child can
never be returned to the family unit because
it's no longer the safe haven that we would
like it to be in how it's portrayed on TV, in
old movies. The times are changing, I'm sorry
to say, and it's a sad commentary on those
families in the United States where it is an
unsafe place to be, it is a place of danger,
it is a place of high risk to either injury or
death to young children.
And that is the reason for the
legislation. And I would hope that in most
instances, children always remain with the
family unit in a loving and caring and
nurturing environment. But in those instances
where it does not exist, we must step up, as a
matter of state policy, and remove that child
to a safer and better place so the child can
survive.
So that is the reason for the
legislation. I thank Mr. President and my
colleagues for their patience, and I would
support the legislation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
4288
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
I understood that Senator Bonacic closed. I
wanted to ask him a question, if he doesn't -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Bonacic, do you yield?
SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Senator, with the type of structure
that you're suggesting, I wanted to ask you
about the legislation as it applies to the
hospital administration procedure. In other
words, we don't have a strict construction of
what duties are incumbent upon the hospital.
And my question is, in situations
where there is some documentation that there
is a stigma based on, at times, where the
hospital is, what the view of people in the
hospital might be, private doctors not wanting
to offend patients who are in their practice
by not having the drug tests -- as opposed to,
say, for instance in districts such as the one
I represent, there's sometimes an automatic
presumption that if there's something wrong
with someone, it might be related to some
4289
substance abuse problem.
So I guess my question is, wouldn't
it be more foresighted if we in negotiating
this legislation created more of a structural
duty so that we have equity in terms of
enforcement of establishing what the
procedures should be in the hospitals all
around this state?
SENATOR BONACIC: I'm not sure
that I understand your question. I think
under this legislation, every newborn that's
born in the state of New York would be tested
to see if there is drugs in its blood or its
urine. So I'm not quite clear on, when you're
talking of a particular hospital and the
perception of stigmatism, I'm not clear on
what you're getting at.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, you
may very well be right. Just to verify that,
can you read for me from the bill where it
says every newborn will be tested? Because I
don't see where it says that.
SENATOR BONACIC: Well, I don't
think there's any language in the bill that
specifically excludes one class from testing
4290
than another. It's our intent that every
newborn would be tested.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: I don't want
to sound semantics, Senator. I'm really
trying to ask a serious question.
The intent may be there, but I'm
looking for the language. In other words,
this is sometimes a problem with public
policy, is that that may have been the
legislative intent, but in enforcement there's
a delineation as to where it actually exists.
And my question is, does the legislation
actually say every newborn will be tested?
Because if it does, that's fine with me.
SENATOR BONACIC: Well, I
think -- not that I think. I think what -
we're talking specifically as to what existing
law is with the testing of newborns. So
wherever existing law is that requires a test
for newborns, we're saying if it's a positive
testing for drugs, that creates a rebuttable
presumption with the mother and that she would
have to come forward to have the child come
4291
back to the household.
SENATOR PATERSON: Yeah, and
Senator, that's actually a specific problem
that I had with this solution and one that we
debated in the house earlier this year.
My reading of existing law is that
we don't have a mandatory testing of newborns
for these substances as it exists right now.
In other words, if that's what you want to
establish, and it seems clear from your
presentation that that's your desire and your
intent, I would think that we should write it
into the legislation. It would seem pretty
simple to do that.
My concern is that it's just not
there under the current law. And if it is, if
you can show me where it is, then I can accept
it. But as we stand right now, I cannot find
in existing law where we test newborns for
these types of substances on a mandatory
basis.
SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
Paterson, I think you raise a good point.
It's something we should look at.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
4292
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 35. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
The Chair recognizes Senator
Dollinger, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. Just ever so briefly. I made
my points pretty clear earlier.
I just want to reemphasize one
thing. For some reason, when it's a young
mother who tests positive for drugs or
alcohol, we immediately force her to rebut a
presumption that she's unfit. But a parent
who tests positive for alcohol, or a parent
after birth, after the child -- when the child
is ten days old, if it weren't at their birth,
but if has parent tests positive for either of
those things while they have minor children,
we don't create such a presumption.
4293
And I suggest again that the
difference between those penalizes one select
group of people, young mothers, and it's not
fair. No.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, you'll be recorded in the negative.
Announce the results.
Senator Sampson, were you trying to
help the capital maintenance and clean the
chimney, or were you attempting to cast a vote
in the negative from the chimney?
SENATOR SAMPSON: Both.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's good
to see your volunteering efforts. We'll make
sure that that message gets sent to the
custodian.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1150 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, Montgomery,
Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Schneiderman,
Seabrook, and Smith. Ayes, 48. Nays, 10.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Wright, why do you rise?
4294
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you,
Mr. President. I would request unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1200.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator
Wright will be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1200.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
Mr. President. I'd like to receive unanimous
consent to vote in the negative on Calendar
Number 1072.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator Duane
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1072.
Senator Paterson, why do you do
rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
on Calendar Number 1150, is Senator Markowitz
recorded as a no vote?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's
4295
correct, Senator Paterson. Senator Markowitz
is recorded as a negative on Calendar Number
1150.
SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. I'm
sorry, Mr. President. Because we didn't read
his name, and -- just checking.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, is there any housekeeping at the
desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
We'll return to the order of
motions and resolutions.
The Chair recognizes Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you,
Mr. President.
On behalf of Senator Stafford, on
page number 52 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 1141, Senate
Print Number 733, and ask that said bill
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments to Calendar 1141 are received and
4296
adopted, and the bill will retain its place on
the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: On behalf of
Senator Skelos, on page number 54 I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 1189,
Senate Print Number 4642A, and ask that said
bill retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amendments
to Calendar Number 1189 are received and
adopted, and the bill will retain its place on
the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
wish to call up Calendar Number 383, Assembly
Print Number 824.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
383, by Member of the Assembly Luster,
Assembly Print 824, an act to amend the
Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
SENATOR McGEE: I now move to
reconsider the vote by which this Assembly
4297
Bill was substituted for my bill, Senate Print
Number 1552, on March 29th.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: On behalf of
Senator Kuhl, I now move that Assembly Bill
Number 824 be committed to the Committee on
Rules and his Senate bill be restored to the
order of the Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bills
to be submitted, and the Senate bill is
restored.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
now offer the following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Seward, I wish to call up
his bill, Print Number 4051, recalled from the
4298
Assembly, which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
631, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4051, an
act to amend the County Law.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Seward, I now offer the
following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
move to commit Senate bill Print Number 1347,
Calendar 234, on the order of third reading,
on behalf of Senator Bruno, to the Committee
4299
on Rules.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is recommitted.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank
you.
Senator Seabrook? No? You're
okay?
SENATOR SEABROOK: Yeah.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, I'd like to request that Senate
stand at ease until the return of Senator
Volker, at which time we will take up Calendar
Number 1166.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson. You're standing at ease?
SENATOR PATERSON: Would the
Acting Majority Leader, of great distinction,
be able to give us any idea how long that
might be? Because we have a lot of
housekeeping to do here in the Minority. We
already cleaned that chimney. I see the
4300
chimney over there doesn't look like anyone's
done any work on it in a while. And we Just
need a little time.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, Senator Volker will return in five,
ten minutes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will stand at ease for approximately
five minutes.
(Whereupon, the Senate stood at
ease at 2:55 p.m.)
(The Senate reconvened at 3:08
p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will come to order.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.President,
at this time will you please call up Calendar
Number 1166.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1166, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5567, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
the DNA identification index.
4301
SENATOR VOLKER: Read the last
section.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Since Senator
Volker came all the way back here, I thought
he'd give us an explanation.
SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
thought I would try. I mean, what the heck.
Everybody looks stunned.
By the way, the Governor sends his
best. I just was with the Governor talking
about some other legislation, including one
piece of legislation we just passed here. And
I had to give an update to some people there.
They said that three times this year we've
passed unanimously the sexual assault reform
bill, the Volker-Paterson and so forth sexual
assault reform bill. I had to inform him it
was four times, since we just did it again
just a little while ago.
The bill that we're talking about
here today is a rather dramatic expansion of
the state's DNA database. I assume most
4302
people realize that DNA has become one of the
classic administrative tools that is being
used to solve crimes nationwide and was
enacted here some years ago, initially enacted
in a bill known as, and I will say it,
Zaleski-Volker, back, I believe, in 1989 when
we passed legislation creating the initial DNA
database.
The present DNA database, however,
is limited to a comparatively small group of
violent felons, sexual predators, and it can
only -- DNA can only be divined or taken from
blood samples. This bill would expand the use
of DNA indexing rather dramatically. What it
would do is it would basically say that all
felons, all convicted felons, both in jail and
out of jail, would be tested for DNA, and that
DNA would then be included in a DNA database
which would be used for the solution of crimes
and in many cases has been found nationwide
could be used not only to find criminals but
in some cases to absolve some criminals,
because DNA has been used, DNA testing, to
find people who are actually found guilty that
were found to be not guilty.
4303
What the bill would do is it would
allow these designated offenders the use of
not just blood but other parts of body
samples, for instance -- such as an example
here, hair and samples from a person's skin
and so forth -- which could be used to get DNA
samples.
It would also stiffen the
penalties, by the way, for disclosure or use
of DNA record -- DNA samples or records to a
Class E felony from what is now an A
misdemeanor. And I remember we disputed that
a lot when this bill was initially passed some
years ago.
DNA has been found in some states
to be one of the most -- one of the greatest
tools in sex crimes. In Virginia, for
instance, they expanded it to burglary, and
when they did the testing of burglars
42 percent of the burglars turned out to
either have other warrants for sex crimes or
to have been previously arrested and convicted
for sex crimes that heretofore had not been
known.
So that basically is the bill.
4304
Keep in mind that this would expand to all
those who have been or would be convicted of
felonies. Convicted of felonies. There was a
bill from out of New York City that talked
about arrests. This doesn't go that far.
This just is convicted felonies.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if Senator Volker would yield for a -
SENATOR VOLKER: Why, certainly,
Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
you've pretty much covered my initial concern,
which was the disclosure of DNA information.
New York State willingly sells a lot of
information about driver's licenses and that
kind of thing. But here we're talking about
information that's medical, physiological,
racial, ethnic and genealogical.
And the concern I have is just for
the information to get out. Up until the
mid-seventies, any African-American testing
positive for sickle cell anemia was banned, at
that time, from admittance to the Air Force.
4305
And even now there's a lot of data about
people in West Africa testing positive for
leprosy, that they incidentally test positive
for HIV even though they don't have the virus.
So some of this information can be
at times a little bit misleading. But at
least in the area of law enforcement, I would
suppose that DNA evidence is now in a sense
comparable to what we thought fingerprinting
did 20 or 30 years ago. Is that correct?
SENATOR VOLKER: Right. Right.
You're absolutely right. In fact, that's one
reason for the felony involved here. Although
you are right, that this is a very classified
type of information, it is only to be used for
the strictest of criminal justice kinds of
issues and cannot be disclosed for any other
reason without penalty. And we've upgraded
that penalty.
SENATOR PATERSON: If the Senator
would yield.
SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
notice that we've expanded it to white collar
crimes. Was there any particular reason?
4306
SENATOR VOLKER: Well, the
reason -- we haven't actually directly
expanded it to white collar crimes unless
they're felonies. In other words, you're
right, that any felony would be included here.
I guess the issue really is when
you're talking about white collar crimes, you
sometimes are talking about people who may be
violent criminals who committed also white
collar crimes. And I think that's what the
theory is, that if you're going to go to
felonies then you should go to all felonies.
And in this case some of those felonies are
what could be termed white collar crimes. And
in those cases, for instance, you may well
find that a person who committed a so-called
white collar crime might be a burglar or might
be a -- for all we know, might be a rapist.
And the DNA testing would help you to find
them.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
one last question for Senator Volker, if he
would.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
4307
SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm
just concerned about this very reputable tool,
one that could really inure to the benefit of
law enforcement officials who are pursuing
hardened criminals, people with previous
records or those who already have DNA in the
registry.
I just have a concern for those
who've never committed a crime, have never
been involved in such a crime. We have a lot
of public officials at some point calling for
the use of -- for the collection of DNA of
newborns or in a sense rounding everyone up
and getting everybody's DNA so it can be used
as a law enforcement technique.
And personally, I just don't think
if anyone has not committed a crime or has
never been involved in the criminal justice
system that they should be tested. I wanted
to know if you felt that there'd be expansion
on this legislation in the future just to, in
a sense, DNA the whole population.
4308
SENATOR VOLKER: It's a great
concern of mine too, Senator. And I think
probably if we really look at this -- and
that's why I think it should only be for
convicted felons. And I think that may be the
danger to it, as much as I -- I think I'm a
fairly rockbed conservative -- why I may have
some problem with arrests. And that is that
you do have to be careful with simply testing
people with arrests. I suppose you could just
build up a huge DNA database.
But on the other hand, I think you
do have to be careful. I think, first of all,
what we have to do here is establish what is
absolutely necessary in the investigative
field -- and I think felonies are certainly
necessary -- and then make sure that we're
able to protect that database to its maximum
before we move off in any other direction.
Because I happen to agree with you, I don't
really think -- it's all very well to talk,
for instance, about babies and all the rest of
the things. But I really think that we should
probably not move off in other directions,
that we should limit it to convicted people
4309
and to convicted felons, meaning people who
have committed serious crimes that puts them
in state prison.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Senator Volker.
SENATOR VOLKER: You're welcome.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
no further questions. The witness may step
down.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes,
Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you yield to a question from
Senator Montgomery?
SENATOR VOLKER: Absolutely.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
Senator Volker, I certainly appreciate your
concern for caution.
I just want to clarify that DNA
4310
carries genetic information on it in that -
SENATOR VOLKER: That's true.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: So is it
possible -- perhaps hopefully not probable or
likely, but is it possible for those entities
with access to DNA material to also be able to
get genetic -- information on, you know, your
genetic makeup which could add to or could
hamper a person's being able to get a job, get
insurance, to participate in other kinds of
activities where, you know, a decision may be
made or a judgment may be made based on the
genetic content?
SENATOR VOLKER: The answer is if
anything like that happened, it would be a
Class E felony. And any public official or
person involved in it would be subject to a
jail term and what -- a Class E felony
provides a jail term. And any repetitive
nature of any allowing that information to be
disseminated, they could be charged with a
series of felonies.
So the answer is no, the
information can only be used in criminal
matters. It cannot be used in any other way.
4311
And the only way that it could ever -- it
would have to be illegally dispensed with.
And any public official would do that
realizing that he or she would lose -- not
only lose their job but obviously would be
prosecuted.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: So, Mr.
President, if I just may pursue -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- an
additional -- so, Senator Volker, what you're
saying is that we definitively, definitely
should not anticipate that any agency who
currently has access to fingerprints as a
means of determining employability would never
additionally have access to DNA information as
a means of determining employability?
SENATOR VOLKER: Right. Not only
that, Senator, but I assume you realize that
the only way that you can do that is if that
is understood by the person who is using the
4312
information. In other words, that is -- the
information with fingerprints was specifically
authorized for whatever that job was or
whatever in a law. Otherwise, you couldn't
really use that.
In this case, there's absolutely no
authorization to use DNA for anything in that
area. And therefore, any use of that would
constitute a crime. And so anyone that would
use it could -- will be charged with a crime.
Because if you got information illegally and
then you used it illegally, you yourself who
used it could also be charged with a crime in
addition to the person who gave it to you.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Just one
last question.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: I yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
Senator.
So the only use of DNA is for those
persons who have been convicted of serious
4313
crimes, based on this -
SENATOR VOLKER: Felonies, right.
Exactly.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- on this
legislation?
Okay, thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seabrook.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes.
Mr. President, would the sponsor yield to a
few questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you yield to Senator Seabrook?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He
yields.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Senator
Volker, as it relates to this information
that's being gathered, this is basically from
an individual who is convicted of a felony and
this will be basically obtained through the
criminal justice system and not through a
private source?
SENATOR VOLKER: Exactly.
SENATOR SEABROOK: And private
4314
sources aren't allowed?
SENATOR VOLKER: Exactly.
Exactly. It would be managed through the
criminal justice system.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Just on the
bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seabrook, on the bill.
SENATOR SEABROOK: On the bill.
The sponsor has done a credit to the bill in
terms of those requests by the mayor and
others who talked about just doing DNA testing
on everybody who has basically not been
convicted of a crime, which I think that's a
crime within itself.
And I think if we're talking about
basically securing these fundamental rights
and not having them initiating, I think it's
important this bill provides those particular
protections that is there.
So I think that he has satisfied
the needs and concerns of those who have that,
who have an interest in protecting those
fundamental rights and not in the violation of
taking those rights from individuals who have
4315
not been convicted. Because, as you know, we
had a similar situation in the City of New
York where young men, African-American men
were picked up, placed in lineups with no
permission from their parents, and had
pictures taken, and those pictures were
actually distributed throughout. And we have
a similar situation relating to yearbooks and
other things, clearly in terms of violating
those fundamental rights which the
Constitution provides for. Those not been
convicted of a crime or basically committed a
crime.
So I think this is a bill from the
right direction, and I would hope we would not
come back next year and the forces that be
will be talking about "Now let's expand this
DNA testing to everybody that was born," and
then basically we'd be living in a state of
chaos. And also you'll have a number of
people who will be convicted of crimes that
they did not commit.
So I think that this is an
outstanding bill that was driven by the
sponsor.
4316
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other
member wishing to speak on the bill?
Hearing none, the Secretary will
read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
2. Senators Duane and Smith recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator McGee, why do you rise?
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, I
wish to have unanimous consent to be recorded
in the negative on Calendar Number 1200.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, hearing no objection, Senator McGee
will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 1200.
Senator Fuschillo.
4317
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. President,
is there any more housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's all
taken care of, Senator.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: There being
no business, I move we adjourn until
Wednesday, June 9th, at 11:00 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without
objection, Senate adjourns until tomorrow,
Wednesday, June 9th, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 3:25 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)