Regular Session - June 14, 1999

                                                              4830





                            NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                                    THE

                            STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               June 14, 1999

                                 2:09 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION





                 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR,  Acting President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          4831



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senate will come to order.  I ask the members

                 to find their chairs, staff to find their

                 chairs and ask everybody in the chamber to

                 please rise and join with me in saying the

                 Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    In the

                 absence of clergy may we bow our heads in a

                 moment of silence.

                            (Whereupon a moment of silence was

                 observed.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Reading

                 of Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Sunday, June 13th.  The Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, June

                 12th, was read and approved.  On motion Senate

                 adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Hearing

                 no objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.







                                                          4832



                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            The Chair recognizes Senate Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of Senator Bruno, I move to commit

                 Senate Print Number 4060-A, Calendar Number

                 459 Third Reading to the Committee on Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Calendar

                 459 is committed.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    On behalf of

                 Senator Bruno I wish to call up Calendar

                 Number 539, Assembly Print Number 8237.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 539, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8237, an act to amend

                 Chapter 942 of the Laws of 1983.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Wright.







                                                          4833



                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

                 bill was substituted for my bill, Senate Print

                 Number 3934, on June 9th.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move that

                 Assembly Bill Number 8237 be recommitted to

                 the Committee on Rules and the Senate bill be

                 recommitted to Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of Senator Saland, I wish to call up

                 Print Number 3815-A, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 644, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3815-A,







                                                          4834



                 an act to amend the Family Court Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this bill was

                 passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 45.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now offer the

                 following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Rath, I wish

                 to call up Calendar Number 860, Assembly Print

                 Number 1474-A.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.







                                                          4835



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 860, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz,

                 Assembly Print Number 1474-A, an act to amend

                 the State Administrative Procedure Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

                 bill was substituted for Senator Rath's bill,

                 Senate Print Number 118-A on June 10th.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read call on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Aye 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    I now move that

                 Assembly Bill Number 1474-A be recommitted to

                 the Committee on Rules and Senator Rath's

                 Senate bill be restored to the order of Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I

                 now officer the following amendments.







                                                          4836



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    On behalf of

                 Senator Meier, I wish to call up his bill,

                 Print Number 1028, recalled from the Assembly

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 62, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1028, an

                 act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4837



                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of Senator Lack, I wish to call up

                 his bill, Print Number 3644, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 700, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3644, an

                 act to amend the Lien Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    I now move to

                 reconsider the votes by which this bill was

                 passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, I now offer the following







                                                          4838



                 amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, on behalf of Senator Saland, I wish

                 to call up his bill, Print Number 3080,

                 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at

                 the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 316, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3080, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 51.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I







                                                          4839



                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Hannon, I

                 offer the following amendments to these bills:

                            Senator Hannon's bill, page 38,

                 Calendar Number 944, Senate Print 3724-A;

                            Also Senator Nozzolio, on page 41,

                 Calendar 983, Senate Print 645;

                            On behalf Senator Volker, on page

                 41, Calendar Number 991, Senate Print 3453;

                            On behalf of Senator Volker, on

                 page 441, Calendar Number 994, Senate Print

                 3521;

                            On behalf Senator Leibell, page 46,

                 Calendar 1110, Senate Print 5328-A; and;

                            On behalf of Senator Saland, page

                 52, Calendar Number 645, Senate Print 4138;

                            I offer the amendments to these

                 bills and I ask that they retain their place.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted and the







                                                          4840



                 bills will retain their place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            Senate Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Crime Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee

                 in the Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Crime

                 Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee, an

                 immediate meeting of the Crime Victims, Crime

                 and Corrections Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room, Room 332.

                            Senator Skelos, we have a couple of

                 substitutions.  Can we make those?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Make those

                 substitutions, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the substitutions.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 17,

                 Senator Marcellino moves to discharge from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 1839

                 and substitute it for the identical Third

                 Reading Calendar 498.

                            On page 27, Senator Fuschillo,







                                                          4841



                 moves to discharge from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 1931-A, and

                 substitute it for the identical Third Reading

                 Calendar 712.

                            On page 40, Senator Hannon moves to

                 discharge from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 680, and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 979.

                            On page 44, Senator Santiago moves

                 to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 121 and substitute it for

                 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1039.

                            On page 50, Senator Leibell, moves

                 to discharge from the Committee on

                 Investigations, Taxation and Government

                 Operations, Assembly Bill Number 4497, and

                 substitute it for the identical Third Reading

                 Calendar 1309.

                            On page 51, Senator McGee moves to

                 discharge from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7938, and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1315.

                            On page 51, Senator Goodman, moves

                 to discharge from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8338-A, and substitute it







                                                          4842



                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1317.

                            And on page 51, Senator Johnson,

                 moves to discharge from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8025-A, and

                 substitute it for the identical Third Reading

                 Calendar 1318.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sub

                 stitutions are ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up Resolution 1544, by

                 Senator Gentile, have it read in its entirety,

                 and -- it was previously adopted, so if we

                 could just have it read in its entirety.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the previously adopted

                 Resolution 1544, by Senator Gentile, in its

                 entirety.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Gentile, Legislative Resolution 1544,

                 commemorating the 25th Anniversary of BRAVO

                 Volunteer Ambulance Service, Incorporated.

                            Whereas, it is sense of this

                 Legislative Body to recognize and comment

                 those organizations of true purpose and worthy







                                                          4843



                 cause whose dedication and commitment are

                 willingly given in service to others; and

                            Whereas, BRAVO Volunteer Ambulance

                 Service, Incorporated, that will be

                 celebrating 25 years of dedicated service to

                 the community during 1999, in the fall of

                 1973, Hank Vogt, Chairman of Planning Board

                 10, took his idea of a volunteer ambulance

                 service to serve the community to the members

                 of the board, the planning meetings for the

                 service started in private homes when the

                 board approved the idea; and

                            Whereas, a name for the service was

                 needed and what better name could there be

                 than BRAVO, taken from a great American John

                 Wayne moved called Rio Bravo, the acronym

                 would stand for the Bay Ridge Ambulance

                 Volunteer Organization; because there was a

                 Bay Ridge Ambulance Service at the time BRAVO

                 voluntarily was made the official name; the

                 founding officers of BRAVO were:  Hank Vogt,

                 President; Richard Calder, Executive Vice

                 President; Barbara Marcello, President;

                 Richard Mikarenda, Second Vice President;

                 First Vice Thomas Meagher, Third Vice







                                                          4844



                 President; William Azar, Fourth Vice

                 President; John Assini, Fifth Vice President;

                 Joseph Kesler, Secretary;  Maria Cassolaro,

                 Director; Robert Adamski, Director; Thomas

                 McDonald, Director; and Jack Maguire,

                 Treasurer; and

                            Whereas, on January 24, 1974, the

                 first open meeting was held in St. Anselm's

                 Parish; the founders presented the purpose of

                 BRAVO to interested community members; it

                 would be a 24 hour a day, free ambulance

                 service to anyone who needed it in the Bay

                 Ridge area; the people supported the concept

                 and 103 applications were filed at the

                 meeting; training classed in CPR and First Aid

                 were held at local churches for anyone

                 interested; a dispatch area and crew lounge

                 were set up and BRAVO was scheduled to be in

                 service by July 1, 1974; on July 4, 1974,

                 BRAVO answered its first call for help; the

                 excited crew transported its first patient to

                 Kings County Hospital; by August 18, 1974,

                 BRAVO began its 24 hour, seven day a week

                 service; on September 28, 1974, a dedication

                 ceremony took place; on October 19, 1974 BRAVO







                                                          4845



                 responded to its 500th call, and by 1978, they

                 would be handling 500 calls each month; in

                 1975, Myles Davis was elected President of the

                 fast growing organization and he would go on

                 to lead BRAVO through 12 years of progress,

                 making the service better and better and more

                 respected as each year went by; and

                            Whereas, BRAVO also began a youth

                 squad for teen-agers, age 14 to 18, they were

                 taught First Aid and learned to operate

                 equipment and gain experience and learn the

                 skills of dispatching; in 1976, BRAVO played

                 host and provided medical coverage to the

                 thousands of people who came to Bay Ridge to

                 watch Operation Sail along Shore Road; and

                            Whereas, in 1977, BRAVO members

                 earned their first coveted stork pins, the

                 crew delivered a baby boy; from 1978 to 1982,

                 the members trained for ambulance and first

                 aid competitions, which proved their

                 commitment and skill; and

                            Whereas, over the years BRAVO

                 received great financial support from

                 community based organizations of Bay Ridge as

                 well as from private citizens living in the







                                                          4846



                 areas which they serve; in 1986 BRAVO has also

                 had the distinct opportunity to pilot the

                 emergency medical technician defibrillation

                 program in New York State and in 1987 saved

                 the first patient using a semi-automatic

                 defibrillator; the program proved successful

                 and has not been incorporated into every basic

                 emergency medical technician training course;

                 and

                            Whereas, in 1989, BRAVO responded

                 to its 100,000th call for help, this number

                 was outstanding considering the fact that most

                 volunteer ambulance corp in the State handle

                 approximately 500 calls per year,  while BRAVO

                 responds to 500 each month; and

                            Whereas, BRAVO has also proved to

                 be an asset to the rest of New York City by

                 having assisted after plane crashes, train

                 derailments, building explosions, and the

                 World Trade Center bombing, the members have

                 proved that at a moments notice they could put

                 their lives aside and respond to their

                 neighbor's call for help; and

                            Whereas, recognizing that such

                 organizations of singular distinction as BRAVO







                                                          4847



                 provide a model for enhancing the quality and

                 dignity of life and that such merit the

                 grateful praise of this Legislative Body and

                 the communities of the State of New York, now,

                 therefore, be it

                            Resolved, that this Legislative

                 Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate

                 the 25th Anniversary of BRAVO Volunteer

                 Ambulance Service, Incorporated; and be it

                 further

                            Resolved, that a copy of this

                 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

                 to BRAVO.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Gentile to speak on the resolution which was

                 previously adopted.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            It is appropriate that we take this

                 time today to honor this all volunteer

                 community ambulance service on their 25th

                 anniversary.  They have become the paradigm

                 and the model of volunteer ambulance service

                 in New York City and I dare say in the State

                 of New York.  They are known as BRAVO, the Bay







                                                          4848



                 Ridge Ambulance Volunteer Organization,

                 B-R-A-V-O.  And for 25 years they have done

                 more than just help the Brooklyn community of

                 Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights.  They have saved

                 lives.  They have saved lives in providing

                 free ambulance service to anyone who asks in

                 those communities.  The lives of their

                 neighbors in Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights,

                 Brooklyn, and the lives of more people on a

                 wider citywide level when they have

                 participated in major rescue operations after

                 plane crashes or bombings or major fires.  But

                 the core, Mr. President, of BRAVO's work is in

                 saving lives in the community in good times

                 and in bad times, 24 hours a day, 365 days a

                 year, providing free ambulance service staffed

                 with highly qualified and trained emergency

                 medical technicians, dispatchers and support

                 personnel.

                            Today BRAVO has over 200 volunteers

                 and it is an all volunteer crew and responds

                 to over 300 calls each and every month of the

                 year along with Nick Nikolopoulos, the

                 President, Mary Boland, the Vice President of

                 Administration, and Betsy McKenna, the Vice







                                                          4849



                 President of Finance, this is a crew and their

                 organization that dearly needs to be

                 recognized by our State.

                            Indeed, to sum up, the dedication

                 and honor that it is to be part of this BRAVO

                 organization is aptly reflected in the plaque

                 that hangs over their headquarters.  When one

                 enters the doorway above the headquarters, the

                 plaque reads, "Through these portals walk the

                 best damn volunteers in the world."  And that

                 is truly what BRAVO is about.

                            It is an understatement, Mr.

                 President, to say that BRAVO is Bay Ridge's

                 most treasured resource.  And so to BRAVO, the

                 Bay Ridge Ambulance Volunteer Organization, I

                 say bravo.  Bravo to BRAVO on your 25th

                 Anniversary.

                            Thank you on behalf of the

                 community and may God bless you in your

                 efforts for many years to come.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Markowitz on the resolution.

                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    Thank you,

                 very, very much.







                                                          4850



                            Even though I have not made it to

                 the big time in representing the Bay Ridge

                 community, nonetheless, for those that love

                 that community as I do, especially the

                 restaurateurs can attest to that and many

                 others, if you are going to get sick, God

                 forbid, the chances of your surviving are much

                 greater in Bay Ridge than in most of the other

                 communities in New York.  And the reason why

                 is that these fine citizens had a vision 25

                 years ago that although we pay tax dollars and

                 the City has their ambulance program, the

                 response time necessary when that call comes

                 in in those days to get that person to the

                 hospital left a lot to be desired.  And so

                 these good people, no pay, no money, out of

                 their pure hearts, because they recognize

                 their responsibility to help their fellow

                 residents, took it upon themselves to create

                 this dream that today most other ambulance

                 programs in the state begin to continue to

                 look at as the model for the rest of this City

                 and State.

                            So I know of people whose lives

                 have been saved because of your work and I







                                                          4851



                 have a hunch that when you and those that are

                 associated with BRAVO go home in the evening

                 or in the morning or whenever it is that they

                 finish their tour of service there must be a

                 big smile on their face knowing that their

                 lives have meant an awful lot in helping

                 others live.  And as Senator Gentile so ably

                 put it, bravo to BRAVO.

                            Congratulations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up the non-controversial

                 calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the non-controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 92, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1060-A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law

                 and the Administrative Code of the City of New

                 York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This







                                                          4852



                 act shall take effect 120 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 95, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 830-A,

                 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to

                 criminal penalties.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 30 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 119, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 96-B, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to altering.







                                                          4853



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 280, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1023-A,

                 an act to establish a business trust law

                 constituting Chapter 4-A of the consolidated

                 laws.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          4854



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 304, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8063-A, an act to amend

                 the Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation

                 to creating.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 376, by Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay the bill

                 aside for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 408, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8113, an act to amend







                                                          4855



                 the Environmental Conservation Law and the

                 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to the

                 authority.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 451, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3035-A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to operation of games.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 53, nays







                                                          4856



                 two.  Senators Dollinger and Padavan recorded

                 in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 472, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1105-A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 519, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1788.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          4857



                 676, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3885, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 tuition assistance program awards.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect July 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 720, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4025, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.







                                                          4858



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 740, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 2790-C, an act to amend the Penal Law, in

                 relation to surreptitious.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect November 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 794, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8339, an act to amend

                 the Education Law, in relation to permitting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.







                                                          4859



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 797, by Member of the Assembly Weprin,

                 Assembly Print Number 2969-A, an act to amend

                 the General Business Law, in relation to child

                 safety devices.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 September.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 821, by Member of the Assembly Grannis,

                 Assembly Print Number 7631-A,   an act to







                                                          4860



                 amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 clarifying.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 832, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3305-A,

                 an act to amend the Local Finance Law, in

                 relation to the sale of bonds and notes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.  The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.   This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.







                                                          4861



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 869, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 3685, an

                 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

                 relation to confidentiality.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 922, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5171-A,

                 an act to authorize the Village of Tupper

                 Lake, County of Franklin.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.  The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.   This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          4862



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 54, nays

                 one.  Senator Morahan recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 950, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4591, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1005, by Senate Goodman, Senate Print 778-A,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control







                                                          4863



                 Law, in relation to certain notice.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is the bill

                 high?  Is the bill high?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    It is not

                 high I am informed by the desk.  The calendar

                 is appropriately marked.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you.

                 Lay the bill aside, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside at the request of the acting

                 Minority.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1025, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4282-A,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to modifying.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1042, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 3555-A,

                 an act to amend the Banking Law, in relation

                 to certain powers.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4864



                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1046, by Member of the Assembly Green,

                 Assembly Print Number 154-A, an act to amend

                 the Banking Law, in relation to subjecting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1048, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3663-A,







                                                          4865



                 an act to amend Chapter 915 of the Laws of

                 1982.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1050, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz,

                 Assembly Print Number 4223, an act to amend

                 the Education Law, in relation to the

                 composition.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          4866



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1060, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3194,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to prohibiting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1097, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print

                 1982-A, an act to amend the Penal Law, in

                 relation to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.

                 This act shall take effect on the first day of







                                                          4867



                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1102, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 2825-A,

                 an act to authorize the Potsdam School

                 District to finance deficits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.   This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1162, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5258-A, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to the powers of the Monroe County







                                                          4868



                 Water Authority.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.  The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calender Number

                 1167, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5573-A, an act to approve building aid funds.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1189, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4642-B,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to penalties.







                                                          4869



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1197, by Senator Volker, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:  Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1247, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5661, an

                 act to amend the Real Property Law, in

                 relation to condominiums.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          4870



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1274, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2551-C,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 August.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1281, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3136,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social







                                                          4871



                 Security Law, in relation to performance.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1286, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4475, an

                 act in relation to authorizing the City of New

                 York to discontinue as park land.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.  The

                 Secretary will -

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1297, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8133-A, an act to amend

                 the Environmental Conservation Law, in

                 relation to deer and other wildlife

                 management.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          4872



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1303, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5788, an

                 act to amend Chapter 533 of the Laws of 1993,

                 amending the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1304, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5792, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to a notice.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          4873



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1307, by Senator Lack, Senator Print 1144, an

                 act to amend the Civil Rights Law, in relation

                 to prohibiting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 30 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1308, by Senator Larkin, Senator Print 1238-B,







                                                          4874



                 an acted creating a temporary State

                 commission.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1309, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Print Number

                 4497, an act to -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1310, by Senator Paterson, Senate Print 3475,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 exclusion of certain earnings.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          4875



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1311, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print

                 4462-A, an act to amend the Social Services

                 Law, in relation to the annual financial

                 statement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          4876



                 1312, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4476-B,

                 an act in relation to authorizing the City of

                 New York to discontinue the use as parks.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.  The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1313, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4499,

                 an act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to advertising.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1315, substituted earlier today by the







                                                          4877



                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 7938, an act to amend the Mental

                 Hygiene Law, in relation to priority.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.   This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1316, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print

                 4927-A, an act to amend the State Finance Law

                 and others, in relation to systems of internal

                 control.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 14.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          4878



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1317, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8338-A, an act to amend the Agriculture

                 and Markets Law, in relation to aggravated

                 cruelty to animals.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1318, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8025-A, an act to amend the Lien Law,

                 in relation to securing a lien.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 30 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          4879



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1319, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5501,

                 an act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law and the Workers' Compensation Law, in

                 relation to the fees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1320, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5675-A,

                 an act to authorize the Commissioner of the

                 Department of Environmental Conservation to

                 transfer and convey.







                                                          4880



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the first active list.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Labor Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Immediate

                 meeting of the Labor Committee, an immediate

                 meeting of the Labor Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room, Room 332.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could have a non-controversial reading

                 of the Supplemental Calendar 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4881



                 Secretary will read the non-controversial

                 reading of the supplemental calendar,

                 beginning with Calendar Number 294.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 294, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2027, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 329, by Member of the Assembly Grannis,

                 Assembly Print Number 1495-A, an act to amend

                 the Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          4882



                 332, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3661-A,

                 an act to amend the Private Housing Finance

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 345, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3392,

                 concurrent resolution of the Senate and

                 Assembly, proposing an amendment to Article 6

                 of the Constitution.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on the

                 resolution.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 resolution is adopted.







                                                          4883



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 350, by Member of the Assembly Stringer, an

                 act to amend the Surrogate Court Procedure

                 Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 365, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 2794, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays







                                                          4884



                 one.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 373, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2977, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 383, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1552-A, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          4885



                 399, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3483, an

                 act to amend the Economic Development Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 29.

                 This act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.  Did I hear lay it aside?  Senator

                 Dollinger, did you wish that laid aside?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 413, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2059, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 428, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3435, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4886



                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.   This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 453, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 2064,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.   This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          4887



                 473, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1489-A, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk, but the bill

                 will be laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 477, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3820, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 498, by Member of the Assembly Weisenberg,

                 Assembly Print 1839, an act to amend the Labor

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          4888



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 500, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4359, an

                 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 551, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2936, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          4889



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 553, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3071-A,

                 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and

                 Rules.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Star the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Star the

                 bill at the request of the sponsor.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 568, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4250-A,

                 an act to amend the Highway Law and the Public

                 Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.







                                                          4890



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 599, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4266-A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law and

                 Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 618, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 4329, an

                 act to amend the General City, Town Law and

                 the Village Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of the

                 year next succeeding the year in which it

                 becomes a law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          4891



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 628, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3252, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 631, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4051-A,

                 an act to amend the County Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          4892



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 633, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4436-A, an

                 act to amend the Volunteer Fire Fighters

                 Benefit Law and the Volunteer Ambulance

                 Workers Benefit law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 634, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 13-B, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          4893



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 637, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4199, an

                 act to amend the Transportation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 638, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4200, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4894



                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 654, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4042,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law and the County Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 660, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4381-B,







                                                          4895



                 an act creating the temporary advisory panel

                 on health care billing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 662, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 3868-B, an act to amend Chapter 912 of the

                 Laws of 1920.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Sections 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          4896



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 663, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 4385, an act to amend Chapter 912 of the Laws

                 of 1920.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 678, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 4161-A,

                 an act in relation to authorizing the

                 conveyance of certain real property of the

                 State of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          4897



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 690, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2791,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 712, substituted earlier today by member of

                 the Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print 1931-A,

                 an act to authorize the Amityville Overcoming

                 Holy Church of God.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4898



                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 719, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print

                 3879-A, an act authorizing the assessor of the

                 County of Nassau to accept an application for

                 exemption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the







                                                          4899



                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 734, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 1518, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 735, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1564, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the







                                                          4900



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 749, by Member of the Assembly Stringer,

                 Assembly Print 1738-A, an act to amend the

                 Penal Law and the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56, nays 2.

                 Senators Seward and Wright recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 755, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 795, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.







                                                          4901



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 759, by Member of the Assembly Englebright,

                 Assembly Print 6280, an act to amend the

                 Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 768, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4269, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          4902



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 769, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4284, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 773, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4413, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

                 Chapter 774 of the Laws of 1950.







                                                          4903



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 795, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 1326-C, an act to amend the General Business

                 Law and the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.







                                                          4904



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 805, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2893, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 809, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3731, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to interest.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 811, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4470, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social







                                                          4905



                 Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 812, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4867-A, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.







                                                          4906



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 823, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 4204,

                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

                 Law and the Real Property Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 857, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4650-A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.







                                                          4907



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 874, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4686, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 888, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2812, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect in 30 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          4908



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could just

                 interrupt for a moment, there will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Higher Education

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Higher

                 Education Committee, an immediate meeting of

                 the Higher Education Committee, in the

                 Majority Conference Room, Room 332.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 the non-controversial supplemental active

                 list.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 907, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4206-A, an

                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect September 1st, 1999.







                                                          4909



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 920, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5114-A, an

                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 932, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4826-A,

                 an act to amend the Social Services Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This







                                                          4910



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 946, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4012, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 971, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4157,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          4911



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1st.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 993, by Member of the Assembly Seddio,

                 Assembly Print 7158, an act to amend the Civil

                 Practice Law and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 996, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3592, an

                 act to amend the Civil Rights Law.







                                                          4912



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 998, by Senator Hoffmann, Assembly Print

                 4259-A, an act to amend the Penal Law and the

                 Criminal Procedure Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          4913



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1002, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5260, an

                 act to amend the Labor Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1015, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4036,

                 an act to amend the Public Officers Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.







                                                          4914



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1016, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4037,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1017, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4038,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.







                                                          4915



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1020, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4122,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 mortgage recording tax in Warren County.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Sections 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1032, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1478-A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.







                                                          4916



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1040, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 3551-A,

                 an act to amend the Banking Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1043, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8212, an act to amend the

                 Banking Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          4917



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1141, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 733-A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 466 of the Laws of

                 1995.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator DeFrancisco, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  I would

                 request unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 690, Senate Print

                 2791.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without







                                                          4918



                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative

                 on Calendar 690.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could now

                 go to the controversial calendar on the active

                 list.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the controversial calendar

                 on the first active list.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 519, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1788, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law, in

                 relation to contracts.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator

                 Dollinger, you asked for an explanation last

                 year and I am going to give you exactly the

                 same one.

                            Many years ago we passed a bill

                 which was referred to as the Mini Brooks Bill,

                 patterned after a federal statute that allowed







                                                          4919



                 government agencies to negotiate a price and

                 also in the process to determine that the low

                 bidder was the best qualified bidders to

                 insure both a combination of low cost and

                 highest quality.  That has worked extremely

                 well for many, many years.

                            However, not included were public

                 benefit corporations in the State of New York.

                 This bill would include public authorities and

                 public benefit corporations who would be

                 required to follow the same procedure as do

                 State agencies currently.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If the

                 sponsor would yield to just a couple

                 questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I did ask for

                 this explanation, Senator Padavan, and I

                 appreciate it.  I think it may be word for







                                                          4920



                 word the exact same explanation you gave me

                 last year.  One thing that I am concerned

                 about is that the Power Authority this year

                 has entered a memorandum in opposition which

                 raises a question about the fiscal benefits of

                 the change from a public bidding to a

                 qualification based selection process.

                            I was wondering if you had any

                 reaction to that memorandum?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    I am looking in

                 my folder and I don't see a copy of it.  We

                 are unaware of it.

                            Senator, this bill reminds me of an

                 astronaut who was asked, as he was sitting on

                 the top of a rocket ready to be flung out into

                 space and someone said, "How do you feel?"  He

                 said, "How would you feel if you were sitting

                 on top of thousands of pounds of hardware,

                 each part of which was provided by the lowest

                 bidder?"

                            And I think that relates to this

                 bill.  However that memo is something I'm not

                 aware of.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    The reason,

                 through you Mr. President, the reason, Senator







                                                          4921



                 Padavan, I raise that question is because

                 while, your comment about the astronauts

                 perhaps apropos in some respects, nonetheless,

                 we have had a pretty good record shooting

                 people up into space and having them come back

                 down based on the lowest possible bidder.

                 They get there, they come back.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Ever since

                 that accident of many years ago, they have

                 changed their procedures.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    There was, as

                 you know, a tragic mishap, but my question is,

                 is there any evidence or any report by the

                 comptroller or someone else that suggests that

                 this qualification based approach, which I

                 know is becoming more and more of a popular

                 trend, that it actually produced the kind of

                 cost savings?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    The proof in

                 the pudding is there.  Every State agency for

                 the State of New York has been following this

                 procedure for years ever since I passed that

                 bill a decade or more ago.  And it has

                 produced quality as well as a minimal cost,

                 meaning they are not paying more than they







                                                          4922



                 should.

                            When we travel around the state and

                 drive over a bridge, whether it is on the

                 Thruway or some other place, we want to be

                 assured that, yes, the taxpayers got the most

                 for their money, but also that bridge is going

                 to be there for a long time.

                            So the fact that the State agencies

                 have used this and worked with this for well

                 over a decade would indicated that it is the

                 right thing to do, and why a public benefit

                 corporation or an authority should not follow

                 that same procedure just does not make sense.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I want to thank Senator

                 Padavan for his explanation.

                            I voted for this bill in the past

                 and I think I am going to vote for it again.

                 I do however continue to have concerns about

                 the departures from the public bidding

                 process, especially with respect do

                 professional services, and I think one of the

                 dangers, one of the things we have to keep our

                 eye on is not just the issue of cost but the

                 potential for manipulation that the lowest







                                                          4923



                 possible bidder, that whole theory was

                 designed to remove to some extent politics out

                 of the process of government procurement.

                 This bill steps away from that.  I know that

                 the other departments of the Executive have

                 done that, but I think we need to keep our eye

                 on it and make sure that there is a strong

                 justification when we depart from the public

                 bidding laws.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, I just would remind you that it's

                 difficult for the stenographer to pick up your

                 conversation when you turn away from the

                 microphone.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I know, Mr.

                 President.  That is why I quite haven't gotten

                 comfortable in this chair.  I liked that one

                 over there where my back was to no one.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    If you

                 would like to move over there, Senator, that

                 is perfectly okay with me.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Thank

                 you.







                                                          4924



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you.

                 Read the last section.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on the supplemental active list, would you

                 please call up Senator Padavan's bill,

                 Calendar Number 735?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 735.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 735, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1564, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the

                 piercing and branding of the body.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator







                                                          4925



                 Padavan, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    This bill

                 precludes body piercing on a child under the

                 age of 18 with the exception of ears and would

                 also provide as a part of the law that a

                 person is guilty of unlawful body marking

                 knowing that a person is intoxicated or under

                 the influence of drugs when he tattoos, brands

                 or pierces the body of a person.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Would the sponsor

                 yield to a couple questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Under this

                 legislation, if someone 17 years of age got a

                 tattoo and they were cited for that, would

                 that endanger their license?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'm sorry,

                 would you repeat that question.







                                                          4926



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Under the

                 legislation, if a 17 year old went and got a

                 tattoo, would -

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Well, it is

                 currently illegal for a 17 year old to be

                 tattooed.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I understand

                 that.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Okay.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    But I am

                 wondering if they were convicted of a criminal

                 charge of giving a tattoo to a minor if that

                 would effect their license?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Effect their

                 what?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    License?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Driver's

                 license?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Tattooing

                 license.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Oh, the

                 tattooing license.  The person who did the

                 tattooing, I would assume so.  They are

                 hopefully -- they are not regulated the way we

                 want them to be.  As a matter of fact there is







                                                          4927



                 another bill on the calendar that Senator

                 Marcellino has introduced that deals with

                 that.

                            So to the extent that they are

                 regulated they would be in jeopardy I presume,

                 but that regulation is very, very narrow in

                 its scope.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    It is a my

                 understanding that they are currently

                 licensed.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Only in the

                 City of New York.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Only in the City

                 of New York?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator, there

                 may be some other cities, but it is not a

                 state license.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I understand.

                 But then how does this bill address what takes

                 place by the licensing agent if they were







                                                          4928



                 convicted of the misdemeanor of tattooing a

                 minor?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator, the

                 law already prohibits the tattooing of a

                 minor, and whatever penalties are in the law

                 would apply.  This extends that to body

                 piercing.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Excuse me, body

                 piercing.

                            Through you Mr. President, I am

                 wondering what action then, what does the

                 licensing agent -- does it call for a hearing?

                 What action would the agency take in terms of

                 an establishment that has been convicted of

                 body piercing?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Using the City

                 of New York as an example, they currently

                 license and someone violated this statute,

                 should it become law, whatever procedure they

                 now have in effect to review that license

                 would be the procedure that they would follow.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you continue to yield?







                                                          4929



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    So this

                 legislation makes it no more or no less likely

                 that they would retain their license?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    It would be

                 another category for them to have that license

                 in jeopardy in the City of New York.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    In the case of an

                 emancipated 17 year old, what would be -- who

                 doesn't need parental permission, how does

                 this law impact body piercing of an

                 emancipated 17 year old.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    It doesn't

                 relate to that at all, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.







                                                          4930



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Then an

                 emancipated year old can get a body part

                 pierced?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    The law is

                 quite specific, it says anyone -- the bill is

                 quite specific.  Any child under the age of 18

                 is prohibited.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Then one final

                 question, through you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Can you tell me

                 what the rational is for 18 as opposed to 16?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator,

                 currently we have a whole body of law where 18

                 is the point where one embarks on a different

                 status in terms of the law.







                                                          4931



                            As an example, if anyone under 18

                 is in a physicians office and surgery or in a

                 hospital, unless it is life threatening and

                 the decision is made to go ahead with it,

                 there must be involvement by the parents.

                            Dentists would require that even

                 for oral surgery.  By the way, dentists have

                 come out in support of this bill.  There are a

                 number of reports by dentists, dermatologists

                 and other health providers, talking about the

                 serious problems, particularly in the area of

                 body piercing, medical problems.  So, Senator,

                 18 is a point in the law that many, many

                 statutes relate to minor as versus adult.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Thank

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 54, nays 2.







                                                          4932



                 Senators Duane and Schneiderman recorded in

                 the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you please

                 call up Calendar Number 498 on the

                 supplemental active list by Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 498.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 498, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Print Number

                 1839, an act to amend the Labor Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I believe there

                 is an amendment at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, we are reviewing your amendment and for

                 your enlightenment, it does appear to be

                 germane but this is an amendment to the Senate

                 bill, the Assembly bill is the one that we are

                 debating.  And while that is a technicality







                                                          4933



                 which could actually rule you out of order, we

                 are willing to listen to your amendment at

                 this time.  So we will waive the reading of it

                 and you are now afforded the opportunity to

                 explain the amendment.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

                 first, gratitude does not begin to described

                 how I feel.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    I knew

                 you would feel that way, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Maybe not

                 after the vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            The amendment would merely make it

                 so the Commissioner of Labor would prepare a

                 notice in English, Spanish, Chinese and Korean

                 and whatever other languages he or she would

                 deem appropriate for posting at the work site

                 of apparel employers which clearly states the

                 rights of the employees and the duties of the

                 employers concerning payment of wages, et

                 cetera.  It also would provide for a toll free

                 number where -- and an address where an







                                                          4934



                 employee could lodge a complaint.

                            There is no such requirement in

                 existing law for apparel factories.  And while

                 I certainly applaud and laud Senator

                 Marcellino's law, which is on the calendar

                 today having to do with prevailing wages and I

                 do think that is critically important, that

                 more information for workers makes for a

                 better work site.  I also believe that

                 particularly with the problems we have been

                 having with sweat shops with workers fearful

                 that they will be fired from their work place

                 in the apparel industry, that the posting of

                 these notices in the language which many of

                 the workers speak would be very helpful toward

                 insuring not just more equitable work place

                 for the workers, but also for a safer work

                 place for all of the workers.  And of course

                 as safe as work places are around New York

                 State makes the economic conditions of the

                 State of New York that much better.

                            So I would urge my colleagues to

                 add this amendment to the legislation which

                 would make it so the Commissioner of Labor

                 would require the posting of employee laws and







                                                          4935



                 regulations in the appropriate languages in

                 factories where garments and apparel is being

                 made.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Is there

                 any other Senator wishing to speak on the

                 amendment?

                            Hearing none, the question is on

                 the amendment.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed

                 nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendment is defeated.

                            Any member wishing to speak on the

                 bill?

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          4936



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 one.  Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on supplemental active list, would you please

                 call up Senator Larkin's bill, Calendar Number

                 809.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 809.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 809, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3731, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to interest.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  Senator Paterson, this legislation

                 limits the interest charges against

                 retroactive contributions to the initial date

                 of billing for their payments.  As you may







                                                          4937



                 recall, in 1995, we authorized the 20 year

                 half pay for bridge and tunnel workers.

                 Pursuant to that legislation, the New York

                 City retirement system was supposed to set up

                 its collective data.   They never got their

                 act together until March of 1998 and what we

                 want to do is preclude the New York City

                 retirement, and they have agreed to it, that

                 they can only assess interest charges back to

                 March of 1998.  They had wanted to go all the

                 way back to '95 and charge the interest.  Why

                 should it because they made the mistake, not

                 the employees.

                            So we want to only let them take

                 the interest and go back to March of '98 when

                 they finally resolved their internal

                 administrative problems.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  If the Senator would yield for a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin do you yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.







                                                          4938



                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I am

                 just curious as to whether we are setting a

                 precedent here.  Do we have any other type of

                 arrangement such as this for any other

                 employees?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    I know of

                 nothing else, Senator Paterson.  We have

                 checked it and we have had the auditors look

                 at it and they said it was a miscalculation by

                 the City of New York.  They were given the

                 authority to assess these individuals for the

                 contributions.  They just never got their act

                 together and when the employees made constant

                 complaints and the union said, When are you

                 going to start assessing us, and they said, We

                 forgot.

                            They put their act together and now

                 they say, Well, because we didn't charge you

                 directly back in '95 we want to charge you

                 your basic rate of contribution plus an

                 interest rate.  We say the interest rate

                 should only go to the time that they finally







                                                          4939



                 woke up and said this is a problem and we

                 should have had it in effect.

                            Why should the employees be

                 penalized for the mistakes of the employer.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I agree with you, Senator.  Mr.

                 President, if the Senator would yield for

                 another question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator

                 Larkin, now that we are doing this, how much

                 do you think this would actually cost?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    $75,000.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    $75,000?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    To the

                 retirement system I assume?







                                                          4940



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay, that's

                 good.

                            Last section, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, excuse me.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Would Senator

                 Larkin yield just to one other question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I am

                 intrigued by the $75,000.  $75,000 is what

                 they are waiving in interest charges?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And through

                 you, Mr. President, where will they come up







                                                          4941



                 with that $75,000 to cover these employees for

                 the period of time they are not assessed for?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    It says $75,000,

                 but when you look at it, they are going to be

                 charged interest for right now, it is 15-18

                 months.  That will pick up probably a third of

                 it.  The city.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I want to

                 thank Senator Larkin for his candid

                 description of this.

                            I just go back to something I

                 raised last week.  This is another one of

                 those little tiny, whiny, unfunded mandates.

                 This is one of those things, remember we

                 passed a bill last week that was going to

                 outlaw unfunded mandates.  No more.  We were

                 going to end this process.  We were not going

                 to tell people, mandate that they do something







                                                          4942



                 unless we paid for it.  Here's a classic

                 example.  Senator Larkin, a good beneficial

                 bill.  Sounds like it is enormously fair for

                 those employees.  What the heck, it wasn't

                 their fault they weren't assessed until March.

                 Very justifiable explanation for doing this.

                 But I would just point out to everyone in this

                 chamber, you don't like unfunded mandates,

                 don't vote for this bill because that is what

                 it is.  It is saying there is a $50,000 cost,

                 not the entire cost but a $50,000 cost that is

                 going to be assessed on a local government

                 because we are mandating that they do

                 something that they don't otherwise have to

                 do.

                            And I would just suggest, Mr.

                 President, we have this debate every year, and

                 all I am going to do for the rest of the

                 session is try to find those unfunded

                 mandates, those things that will require

                 governments to do what we are not willing to

                 pay for.

                            I am convinced by Senator Larkin.

                 I would vote for this unfunded mandate.  I

                 think it is fair.  But recognize it for what







                                                          4943



                 it is.  It is an unfunded mandate.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, did you wish to speak?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President, I

                 just want to clarify something for Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            The employees did not make an

                 error, the City of New York personnel human

                 resources made the error and they did not

                 deduct it from their pay.  Now they are saying

                 because we did not deduct it we want to charge

                 you interest for the period we didn't deduct.

                            Why should these employees, who

                 were complying with the law, was sent to the

                 personnel and somebody in personnel goofed up.

                 Should we therefore go to our employees and

                 say, You were allowed to contribute to your

                 retirement, but the City of New York did not

                 deduct it from your pay so we are going to

                 penalize you and make you pay an interest on

                 those deductions going back three years.  I

                 think that is totally wrong and I don't

                 consider it a mandate, I consider it a wake up

                 call to those people who are managing the







                                                          4944



                 records of our employees, not a mandate.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Larkin, I understand your theory, but in order

                 to make the system whole, in order to account

                 for the time value of the money, what you

                 would do is you would charge an interest

                 factor.  They are going to get the benefit of

                 that money, why shouldn't they pay it and pay

                 interest back into it?

                            The point I am making is simply,

                 this is $50,000 that will not be covered by

                 employee contributions that will be made up by

                 employer contributions or contributions from

                 some other place in the system.  We are

                 telling them they have got to do something and

                 we are not giving then the $50,000, the

                 two-thirds of the $75,000, that we need to

                 make them whole.

                            I would just suggest that this is

                 how we start down the road to unfunded

                 mandates, a bunch of little tiny steps where

                 we tell people they have to do things, where







                                                          4945



                 we require our municipalities to come up with

                 the other $50,000, or what is worse, we

                 require the pension system to come with it.

                 We in essence take it from everybody else

                 collectively.

                            Senator Larkin, I think you are

                 right.  I think it is unfair.  But lets call

                 it what it is.  We are telling someone to do

                 something without paying for it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1281,

                 by Senator Leibell, and then Calendar Number

                 1309, by Senator Leibell.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          4946



                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1281, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3136,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law in relation to performance.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, an explanation has been asked for by

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill would add a new section,

                 63-B, to the Retirement and Social Security

                 Law to give counties the option of offering a

                 three-quarters disability retirement to

                 sheriffs, undersheriffs, deputy sheriffs and

                 correction officers who are no longer able to

                 perform their duty as the result of an injury

                 sustained on the job.

                            This bill would also create a

                 presumption that a member covered under this

                 act who has been diagnosed with HIV,

                 tuberculosis or hepatitis contracted the

                 disease while in the line of duty unless the

                 contrary can be proven.







                                                          4947



                            The bill is at a local option, and

                 it takes an important step towards recognizing

                 the importance of the service that our local

                 sheriffs, deputy sheriffs, undersheriffs and

                 correction officers employed by counties

                 provide to our community and state.

                            This was previously passed by both

                 houses and vetoed on technical grounds by the

                 Governor.  Those technical grounds have been

                 corrected by this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Would the sponsor

                 yield to a couple questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield to questions?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am wondering,

                 through you Mr. President, if the Senator is

                 familiar with the ways in which HIV is

                 transmitted?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I have

                 read a number of things and heard many ways,







                                                          4948



                 yes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you

                 Mr. President, then Senator, you are aware

                 that HIV is transmitted through body fluids

                 and not through casual contact?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Correct.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Would it be an

                 assumption that we could share that sheriff's

                 and correctional officers should not be having

                 sex with incarcerated people or sharing

                 needles with them or giving them blood

                 transfusions or breast feeding incarcerated

                 people?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I think that we

                 can agree on that.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Then if the

                 sponsor would continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator







                                                          4949



                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am wondering

                 why it is that you believe that the

                 presumption should be that a correction

                 officer or a sheriff would have gotten their

                 exposure to HIV as part of their duties since

                 none of those things are part of their duties?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I don't know if

                 you have been in a correctional facility, as a

                 visitor I am certain, but if you go into one

                 of those you realize the unusually close

                 proximity with which these people work and

                 live.  Whether it is hepatitis or tuberculosis

                 or HIV, there are numerous ways that it can be

                 communicated.  In fact, one way through

                 communicating is through bite.  There have

                 been many correction officers for instance in

                 my district who have been subjected to that.

                 It is a great concern, whether it is HIV or

                 hepatitis, and the ways that they can be

                 communicated are particularly possible in that

                 close and difficult setting.







                                                          4950



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    It is my

                 understanding that in correctional facilities

                 that reports of scuffles or fights between

                 corrections officers and inmates are well

                 documented.  Is that correct, Senator?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    That they do

                 occur?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    When they do

                 occur that they are documented?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I believe in

                 the vast majority of cases they would be.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And is it not the

                 case that your legislation does not even call

                 upon seeing documentation of such an incident

                 in order for the assumption to be made that

                 that transmission of HIV happened.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    That is

                 correct.







                                                          4951



                            SENATOR DUANE:    So would it not

                 be -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, are you asking Senator Leibell to

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am wondering if

                 the Senator sees then a sort of, as we would

                 say in the nineties, a disconnect between no

                 report of an altercation where there biting or

                 transference of body fluids and the automatic

                 provision of disability based upon HIV status?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I should point

                 out to you that under Chapter 722 of the Laws

                 of 1996 this same benefit to corrections

                 officers employed by DOCS, correctional

                 services, and security hospital assistants

                 within OMH was granted, so there is a strong

                 precedent for this.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, I







                                                          4952



                 am afraid I'm going to have to ask him to -- I

                 just didn't get all that.  Could you repeat

                 that, please?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    We already

                 grant this for state employees who are

                 involved in the same type of work.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Okay.  That's too

                 bad.  I am wondering about your legislation.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    We would have a

                 basic disagreement because I think that is

                 good that we do it for State employees, and I

                 think it is good that we do this here under

                 our piece of legislation, this piece of

                 legislation.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Are you

                 asking the Senator to continue to yield?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Even though the







                                                          4953



                 case may be that there is evidence that an

                 altercation has taken place, there is no

                 documentation, you still believe that the

                 sheriff or the correctional employee should be

                 basically automatically provided with the

                 benefits even if there is no proof or even

                 possibility that HIV had been transmitted

                 within the prison setting?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    This is,

                 Senator, a rebuttable presumption.  It is a

                 presumption.  It is something to aid them and

                 make it easier for them in order to establish

                 what has occurred.  But if there is evidence

                 to the contrary that can be submitted.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, through you

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor would you

                 continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Does the Senator







                                                          4954



                 have any concerns that this might aid and abet

                 the misinformation and miseducation that

                 people have about the transmission of HIV by

                 having the assumption made that HIV can be

                 transmitted through the air or without any

                 evidence of there having had been any body

                 fluid transfers happens.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    No, I don't

                 have that worry at all and there is nothing in

                 this bill would lead anybody to that

                 conclusion.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    On the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I just, I can't

                 imagine how it is that anybody would think

                 that this is good public policy to make it the

                 assumption that someone who has HIV who is

                 employed in the correctional system, without

                 any evidence of there having been an

                 altercation of any kind that it should be

                 automatically assumed that they got HIV

                 through another person.  It is just patently

                 absurd.  There is nothing in public health or







                                                          4955



                 medical science that would in any way lead

                 anyone to possibly believe that HIV is

                 transmitted except through very specific

                 circumstances, none of which are required to

                 be shown as part of this legislation.

                            So not only is it fiscally

                 imprudent, but it is from a public health

                 point of view counterproductive and harmful in

                 terms of the public health education efforts

                 which are on going about the spread of HIV.

                            Common sense I think would dictate

                 that my colleagues would vote no on this

                 legislation.  It is completely and totally and

                 utterly absurd, and there really is no way

                 around it.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 55, nays

                 two.  Senators Duane and Schneiderman recorded

                 in the negative.







                                                          4956



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up 1309, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1309, substituted earlier today, by Member of

                 the Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Print Number

                 4497, an act to amend Chapter 929 of the laws

                 of 1986.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, this is the two year extender on

                 binding arbitration law that expires on July

                 1st.

                            If the sponsor, Senator Leibell

                 would yield for a question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell,

                 will you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, what

                 would be the public interest in extending this







                                                          4957



                 law for another two years.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    This has been a

                 method that has -- a piece of legislation that

                 has been extended repeatedly over the course

                 of years I think since 1986.  And we have done

                 it every two years.  It is a piece of

                 legislation that we feel it necessary for our

                 employee relations and it has been used to

                 resolve labor disputes over the course of

                 these years.  It is certainly something that

                 the Legislature in both houses has supported.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    If Senator

                 Leibell would yield for another question,

                 Madam President?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Is there any

                 approximation of what the cost for the

                 employers would be for the extender?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I'm sorry,

                 Senator, I didn't hear your question?







                                                          4958



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, could

                 you speak up, please?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I'm sorry.

                 Was there any assessment of what the cost

                 would be through this extender?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    There is no

                 additional cost.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay, very

                 good.  If that is the case, Madam President,

                 then if Senator Leibell would yield to one

                 last question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator will you

                 yield to a question?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    One question,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I can vote on

                 this bill, Madam President.  I am just

                 wondering why we are extending it for two

                 years and not making it permanent law, if

                 Senator Leibell would care to comment?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, Madam

                 President, like many other pieces of

                 legislation we take the opportunity to review

                 them every two years.  That is certainly quite







                                                          4959



                 common in this house and in the Assembly also.

                 And it gives us the opportunity to look back

                 and to see what we have done and to see what

                 we should be doing in the future.

                            That's why we go with the two year

                 extender.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Will the

                 sponsor yield to a question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell,

                 will you yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Has the

                 Metropolitan Transit Authority asked us to do

                 this?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, the Metropolitan Transit

                 Authority asked us to do it in the first

                 place?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    They did?







                                                          4960



                 There was never any opposition?  Even way back

                 at the start when they starting binding

                 arbitration for these workers?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Just speaking

                 with counsel, and you are asking me some of

                 the history of this, which I am probably less

                 equipped than maybe some others to respond to,

                 but my understanding is that it was requested

                 by labor and management and has been requested

                 by them over the course of many years that we

                 have been extending it.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, thank you to Senator Leibell

                 for the response to the question.

                            My recollection about the start of

                 binding arbitration for all of these services

                 is that they were opposed by management at the

                 start.  I will just go back to familiar

                 refrain.  I said it to Senator Larkin and I

                 will say it again every time it comes up.  We

                 passed a bill last week, no unfunded mandates.

                 We are not going to tell anybody in this

                 state, any other level of government what to







                                                          4961



                 do that has any cost associated with is unless

                 we pay for that cost.  This is a bill that

                 binding arbitration, which I have supported

                 for police and fire, good idea.  You are

                 absolutely correct, Senator Leibell.  It has

                 created peace in our police and services and

                 our vital services in this state.  It was the

                 right thing to do.  But again, lets not

                 mistake it.  Binding arbitration is an

                 instance of an unfunded mandate.  We are

                 clearly telling them what to do.  We are

                 clearly telling them how to resolve their

                 labor disputes and we are doing it and forcing

                 them to pay for that cost of doing it and not

                 paying for it ourselves.

                            This is another one of those

                 mandates.  We tell them what to do and we

                 don't necessarily give them the money to pay

                 for it when it is all said and done.

                            So, Senator Leibell, I have always

                 thought that binding arbitration was a great

                 idea for police and fire.  It has brought us

                 labor peace.  But once again lets clarify it

                 for what it is.  It is an unfunded mandate

                 and, with all due respect to my colleagues on







                                                          4962



                 the other side, we can not have it both ways.

                 You can't be against unfunded mandates one

                 week and then passing them the next.

                 Something seems to be inconsistent about that.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 call up Calendar Number 1317, by Senator

                 Goodman, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1317, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8338-A, an act to amend the Agriculture

                 and Markets Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,







                                                          4963



                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Who requested

                 the explanation, please, Madam President?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane

                 asked for the explanation.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator Duane,

                 this bill creates a new kind of aggravated

                 cruelty to animals.  Its purpose is to create

                 a situation in which it is plainly understood

                 by anyone who would torture an animal, a dog

                 or a cat in particular or other domesticated

                 animal, with no justifiable purpose, it would

                 involve intentional killing or intentional

                 causing of serious physical injury to a

                 companion animal with aggravated cruelty.

                            It is named after Buster the cat,

                 who was set on fire by its owner, in a wanton

                 and totally irresponsible manner.  And this

                 bill would punish severely anyone who does

                 that and it has in mind particularly the fact

                 that there is an established pattern with

                 innumerable serial killers that they have been

                 cruel to animals prior to being cruel to human







                                                          4964



                 beings and killing them.  We are very anxious

                 to try to deter this sort of behavior at the

                 outset of it before it is taken out on human

                 beings and that is the genesis of the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President,

                 would the sponsor yield to a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I would.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Is it

                 safe to say that this legislation creates a

                 new category of crime?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    The crime that

                 is involved here would be an E Felony,

                 punishable by a sentence of up to two years.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    That is new, is

                 it not, Senator?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    It is new for

                 this particular crime, but it is not new as a

                 category.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead,







                                                          4965



                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Does the

                 legislation speak or, I would like you to

                 confirm that it speaks to motivation and

                 intent in that it says intentionally kills,

                 talks about depraved or sadistic manner?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Correct,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am wondering if

                 the Senator would agree with me that cruelty

                 to another human being based on who that human

                 being is, what that human beings

                 characteristics are is as important as

                 protecting animals against crimes directed to

                 them?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Expressly so,

                 Senator, yes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                 Through you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead,

                 Senator.







                                                          4966



                            SENATOR DUANE:    And so you would

                 agree that great importance should be given to

                 both crimes against animals based on depravity

                 and sadism intentionally committed as well as

                 crimes committed against a person based on who

                 they are or who they are perceived to be.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I presume you

                 are not asking these questions with any

                 serious question in your mind as to what my

                 answer is.  The answer is obviously yes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                 Because I do, through you, on the bill, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I do believe that

                 the Senator and I do share that opinion.  And

                 I wonder why it is then that -- and I agree

                 with this legislation and the intent of the

                 legislation and I think that cruelly to

                 animals is a terrible, terrible thing.  But I

                 wonder why it is that we'll be able to pass

                 this legislation dealing cruelty to animals

                 and yet we are not able to even begin the

                 debate on the floor on a bias related bill to







                                                          4967



                 increase penalties and make it possible to

                 actually have reporting of bias related

                 crimes.

                            Though I think it is terrible thing

                 to have an animal hurt or killed by a human

                 being, if you could call them that, if that's

                 what they are willing to do to an animal, I

                 also think that it is a terrible, terrible

                 thing to perpetrate bias upon people based on

                 the perception that they might be a Jewish or

                 African-American or gay or lesbian or disabled

                 that we are unable in this body to pass

                 legislation which actually addressed that that

                 is a problem in New York State.

                            I certainly applaud this

                 legislation, but I think that it is a disgrace

                 of this body that we are not able to pass, or

                 to even debate, to even allow people to vote

                 on legislation which would protect people

                 against bias related attacks that would lead

                 to the sensitizing of law enforcement

                 agencies, police, district attorneys, judges,

                 victims advocates, as to the terrible problem

                 that bias is in our State.

                            So I'm certainly going to vote for







                                                          4968



                 this legislation because I think cruelty to

                 animals is a terrible, terrible thing.  But I

                 also think that this body should recognize

                 that bias related attacks based on who a

                 person is perceived to be is also a terrible,

                 terrible thing.  And I challenge my colleagues

                 to make it possible for us to vote on bias

                 related legislation before the end of this

                 legislative season.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise in support of this

                 legislation and applaud you, Senator Goodman.

                 This is a significant piece of legislation.

                 Buster the cat came from Schenectady and it

                 was a very celebrated if horrible crime that

                 was committed on a little cat in my district

                 where somebody poured kerosene on it and it

                 suffered at great length and then eventually

                 died.  There were thousands upon thousands of

                 school children and citizens that petitioned

                 to have this bill become law.

                            Assemblyman Tedisco, who is my







                                                          4969



                 Assemblyman, and I had legislation along with

                 Senator Goodman who had this bill for years.

                            This is a particular crime that has

                 very, very odd and strange -- because many of

                 your serial killers are also animal torturers,

                 and some of your most heinous crimes that have

                 been committed in society, they go back to the

                 person torturing animals or doing terrible

                 things on little pets and so forth.

                            This bill has been modified and

                 excludes farm animals and things like that.

                 It is an excellent piece of legislation.  It

                 should have become law last year.  Senator

                 Goodman worked very hard to get it out of the

                 Assembly.  I suspect that it will become the

                 law and it is about time that we recognize

                 that the Buster Bill becomes part of our law.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.  Excuse me, Senator Duane, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    For my second

                 round, Madam President, which I think is

                 permitted under the rules.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Are you on the







                                                          4970



                 bill, Senator Duane?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  I

                 would like to point out that thousands and

                 thousands of people have written to Senators

                 here, have called Senators here regarding the

                 bias bill.  If the number of calls is what it

                 is that drives legislation I will match the

                 bias bill letter for letter, phone call for

                 phone call for this also excellent piece of

                 legislation.

                            Some of you heard earlier in the

                 session the story of a young man named Tom

                 Duane who went out to the east end of Long

                 Island and was beaten up in a parking lot only

                 because they thought that I was a gay person.

                 And you probably also heard that that case

                 went to trial.  Not one person from law

                 enforcement contacted me before it went before

                 the judge.  It was pled down to the lowest

                 possible misdemeanor, and the biggest tragedy

                 of all of that is that unlike what happened







                                                          4971



                 with Buster the Cat, what happened with Tom

                 Duane was, there is no place at all anywhere

                 in the State of New York that a record of what

                 happened to me exists because without a bias

                 bill there is no reporting of bias related

                 crimes.  There is no statewide reporting.

                            So once again I call on my

                 colleagues before this Legislative session

                 ends to bring up the bias bill so it can be

                 debated on the floor on the merits and, I

                 believe, to see its passage.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 I would like to explain my vote.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Excuse me,

                 Senator, I couldn't hear you.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    I would like to

                 explain my vote, so I will -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Alright.  Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect November 1.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          4972



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senate Volker to

                 explain your vote.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 let me just say first of all, Senator Duane, I

                 am not going to comment except to say that

                 there is a crime for what happened to you and

                 a fairly serious crime.

                            All this bill does, this is an

                 entirely different situation.  This bill

                 upgrades the penalty, virtually no penalty for

                 what was occurring as far as animals are

                 concerned.

                            The problem with this bill though

                 is, and I have talked with Senator Goodman

                 about this, unfortunately the Assembly can't

                 stomach doing a really tough bill because for

                 the first time in my memory in the Penal Law

                 the Assembly refused to do a Class E felony

                 that would in effect be a two year state

                 prison sentence.

                            What this bill does is, it creates

                 a situation where you have two years but in

                 the local jail.  That is a little bit of a

                 problem for me as chairman of Codes. The

                 Senate was more than willing to do two years







                                                          4973



                 state time, but unfortunately the Assembly

                 just doesn't feel apparently that this

                 situation was serious enough to warrant state

                 prison time.

                            I think that is unfortunate, but

                 I'm still going to vote for the bill because

                 -- but I think the problem is that certainly

                 we should not change the whole Penal Law

                 because the people in the Assembly felt that a

                 Class E felony doesn't warrant somebody going

                 to state prison.

                            So I am going to vote for the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

                 you will be recorded as voting in the

                 affirmative on this bill.

                            Senator Duane, to explain your

                 vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    To explain my

                 vote, Madam President.

                            I am voting in the affirmative on

                 this because as is the case with what this

                 legislation seeks to address, there was

                 virtually no penalty enacted for what happened

                 to me.  And the bias bill would simply

                 increase what that virtual no penalty was to







                                                          4974



                 me but hopefully long term, set an example and

                 educate as to the wrongness of bias related

                 attacks as I am sure this legislation will

                 convey the message that attacking and killing

                 innocent animals is also a terrible thing to

                 do.

                            I vote yes, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

                 you will be recorded as voting in the

                 affirmative on this bill.

                            Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    May I explain

                 my vote, Madam President?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, this is one of three bills which I

                 am sponsoring this year with the hope that we

                 can put an end to various types of cruelty to

                 animals and to birds.  There is one other bill

                 which I would like to bring to the attention

                 of the house at this moment, which awaits our

                 action and hopefully it will be before us

                 shortly.  That is a bill which permits the

                 poisoning of pigeons with the use of a







                                                          4975



                 chemical called Avitrol.  Avitrol is a

                 chemical which causes anything that comes in

                 contact with it, including young children, to

                 go into convulsions of a serious variety

                 before losing consciousness and in the case of

                 pigeons in particular for which it is used in

                 the City of New York, it causes these pigeons

                 to become very convulsant and ultimately to

                 die.

                            Madam President, the use of that

                 poison should be prevented by the action of

                 the City Council in the City of New York and

                 that bill awaits our action.

                            I would also like to bring the

                 attention of the house to a second bill,

                 really a third bill in this group, which

                 relates to the problem of the ASPCA and the

                 various abuses attributed to it in the City of

                 New York.  This third bill would create a

                 separate and different approach to the

                 handling of pet animals which are taken in the

                 City which may have no owners or may have lost

                 their claim to ownership and seeks to see that

                 they are handled in a much more humane

                 fashion.







                                                          4976



                            I think in general anyone who cares

                 about animals or any other pets would be

                 concerned with all three of these measures,

                 and I am very grateful to the house for

                 passing this one and I hope it will be the

                 first of three actions which will round out a

                 program of considerable significance to those

                 who care about the well-being of animals.

                            Thank you. I vote in the

                 affirmative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 you will be recorded as voting in the

                 affirmative on this bill.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please lay aside for the day

                 Calendar Number 1162, by Senator Rath.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside for the day, Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 I also understand on Calendar Number 294 on







                                                          4977



                 the supplemental active list, the Minority has

                 withdrawn their lay aside. Would you call that

                 up at this time?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 294, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2027, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to withdrawing.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in







                                                          4978



                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please called up on the supplemental

                 active list Calendar Number 399, by Senator

                 Alesi.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 399, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3483,  an

                 act to amend the Economic Development Law and

                 others, in relation to program reporting.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Excuse me,

                 Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Alesi, an

                 explanation has been requested by Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill simply requires that

                 various number of state agencies and programs







                                                          4979



                 that submit numerous individual reports at

                 different times during the fiscal year make

                 those reports directly to the Commissioner of

                 Economic Development and that they be collated

                 into one singular report no later than six

                 months after the end of the fiscal year.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Through you,

                 Madam President, would the sponsor yield to a

                 couple of questions?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, will you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes, I will.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Senator Alesi,

                 would there not be some efficacy to having

                 reports given for different programs?  I guess

                 there are about 20 plus different programs

                 that are covered under this legislation, have

                 the reports done throughout the year so there

                 is some consistency of work product.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Madam President, actually there is a lack of

                 consistency if you look at it from the attempt







                                                          4980



                 of the legislation because of the different

                 times during the year that all of these

                 various agencies would be reporting they can

                 not be collated effectively.  And more

                 importantly, there is a requirement that they

                 have a biannual report as well, meaning that

                 every two years agencies involved in economic

                 development would have to report on programs

                 that are still in effect and the result of

                 which can not be measured easily within two

                 years.

                            As a result of that the bill aims

                 to extent that period to five years.  So

                 again, in response to your question, the

                 attempt is to simplify all of the information

                 that is forth coming from those various

                 entities and save staff time and make the

                 efforts of these reports more effective for

                 the use of the Commissioner.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Again, through

                 you, Madam President, will the sponsor yield

                 to an additional question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.







                                                          4981



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    In those 20

                 some odd programs, just reviewing the

                 programs, it appears some deal with inner city

                 problems and others deal with development of

                 business in rural areas and they have some

                 target specific requirements that we have

                 passed here in the Legislature for reporting

                 purposes so we, as a Legislature, can analyze

                 them.

                            Doesn't this bill, in the spirit of

                 getting an expedited report with the degree of

                 consistency give up some of what we would

                 consider important information that we can

                 analyze?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Madam President, I don't think that that would

                 be the case in view of the fact that every one

                 of these agencies, and there are nearly two

                 dozen as you correctly pointed out, operate

                 within the framework of the state budget and

                 whatever money is allotted over one year or

                 multi-year programs.  And so the time that the

                 prescribed reports are due currently in my







                                                          4982



                 estimation would be improved upon if they were

                 all to report within a six month period.  It

                 does not say they have to all report on the

                 same day, but it says that they have to report

                 within six months and after that six month

                 period then those reports would then be

                 collated into one report for the overall use

                 of the Commissioner of Economic Development.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    On the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the bill, go

                 ahead.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President, and thank you, very much,

                 Senator Alesi.

                            I voted for this bill last year.  I

                 do have some problems with it, but I think

                 Senator Alesi has given us a great deal of

                 information and I hope that everything you

                 have said comes to fruition, that it expedites

                 the reporting process and that we are able to

                 assimilate information that is easier to

                 analyze.

                            And as I indicated, I will vote for







                                                          4983



                 the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 29.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, on the supplemental active list,

                 please call up Calendar Number 473, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            Senator Breslin, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    On the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    We have to follow

                 procedure first, Senator.  Thank you.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 473, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1489-A, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    An explanation,

                 please.







                                                          4984



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Spano,

                 Senator Breslin is requesting an explanation.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Madam President,

                 this is a bill that would allow for

                 residential parking for residents in the

                 Village of Tarrytown in Westchester County.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    On the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin,

                 on the bill.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    I applaud your

                 bill.  I think it is a fine piece of

                 legislation, Senator Spano.  There have been a

                 number of others through the last several

                 years that have been very good bills for the

                 particular legislative community that have

                 been accompanied with home rule messages and I

                 would just like to reinforce that there is an

                 Albany parking bill that has languished here

                 in our house for the last couple of years that

                 is very important to the Albany community,

                 very important to the Albany community.  And I

                 would ask that members of my conference as

                 well as members from the other side allow that

                 bill to come out of committee, to be debated







                                                          4985



                 and pass to protect the citizens of Albany

                 County.

                            I intent to vote yes on Senator

                 Spano's bill.

                            Thank you, very much, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    On the

                 supplemental active list, please call up

                 Calendar Number 373, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 373, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2977, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to child abuse.







                                                          4986



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 58.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, if we could return to motions and

                 resolutions, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    We will return to

                 motions and resolutions.  The Secretary will

                 read.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Print

                 Number 5446-A, recalled from the Assembly

                 which is now at the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          4987



                 815, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5446-A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, I now request that -- I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which the bill was

                 passed.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 call the roll upon reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 58.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, I now offer the following

                 amendments.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 received.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, I believe there is a privileged

                 resolution at the desk by Senator Leibell.  I

                 ask that the title be read.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator







                                                          4988



                 Leibell, Legislative Resolution Number 2006,

                 honoring and paying tribute to the

                 distinguished and remarkable life of Zachary

                 Fisher, an American patriot.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the

                 resolution, Senator Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            Briefly, we recently lost Zach

                 Fisher, who was well known throughout New York

                 City, New York State and the United States not

                 only as a successful businessman, someone who

                 was heavily involved in the real estate

                 industry, but as someone who was a great

                 humanitarian, as someone who was intimately

                 connected with medical research in a wide

                 variety of areas.  And also someone who was

                 much loved by every person who wears the

                 uniform of this county.

                            Zach Fisher had, over the course of

                 many, many years devoted his time, his

                 efforts, his assets to furthering the cause

                 and the needs of our military personnel.

                            For those of you who have had the

                 opportunity and the treat, I might add, of







                                                          4989



                 going to the Intrepid Museum, that air craft

                 carrier was literally a rusting hulk before

                 Zach was there with his money, with his

                 energy, with his wisdom to turn it into the

                 great maritime museum that it is today.

                            So I introduced this resolution

                 commemorating a good life, a life that was

                 devoted to making this a better state, a

                 better nation, and ask all of you to join with

                 me in recognizing Zach Fisher for the

                 tremendous accomplishments he had over the

                 course of many, many generations.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the

                 resolution, Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I am very pleased to have this

                 resolution before us and thank you Senator for

                 bringing the resolution before us.

                            Zach Fisher was for many, many

                 years a close personal friend of my family.  I

                 could think of no more extraordinary

                 individual or an American for that matter, and

                 without going through the abundance of

                 accomplishments and contributions that he made







                                                          4990



                 in many, many facets of life, including his

                 invaluable contribution to all of the military

                 services, the point that must be made here is

                 that he did it in a fashion that you don't

                 often see in society these days.  He had in

                 the most low key, humble fashion, not seeking

                 aggrandizement, not seeking attention and not

                 seeking a pat on the back or a pat on the

                 shoulder for anything that he did.  And

                 without revealing some of the things that I

                 know that he did, suffice it to say that he

                 eased the suffering of the families of

                 individuals who had undergone tragic

                 circumstances immeasurably and he did things

                 like this, deeds like this, on countless

                 occasions, left an imprint on the military,

                 left an imprint in New York City and left an

                 imprint indelible by all those who knew him.

                            I am so pleased that this

                 resolution is here today.  It is perhaps the

                 most fitting way for this institution to

                 recognize the wonderful life and wonderful

                 contributions of Mr. Zachary Fisher.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the

                 resolution, all in favor signify by saying







                                                          4991



                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

                 adopted.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, I ask that this resolution be

                 opened to sponsorship of all the members.

                 Anybody wishing not to go on, if they could

                 raise their hand and state their objection.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    All those members

                 who do not wish to be sponsors of the

                 resolution please notify the desk.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, can we stand at ease for a few

                 minutes, please?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate stands

                 at ease.

                            (The Senate stood at ease from 4:15

                 p.m. until 4:25 p.m.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,







                                                          4992



                 if we could return to reports the standing

                 committees, I believe there is a report from

                 the Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that

                 it be read.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The report is at

                 the desk.  We will return to reports of

                 standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules offers up the

                 following bills directly for third reading:

                            Senate Bill Number 34-B, by Senator

                 Velella, an act to amend the Insurance Law;

                            2000-B, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Transportation Law and the State

                 Finance Law;

                            2264, by Senator Stachowski, an act

                 directing the commissioner;

                            2425-B, by Senate Wright, an act to

                 amend the Economic Development Law;

                            2928, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

                 act to amend the Public Housing Law;

                            3019-A, by Senator Saland, an act

                 authorizing the reopening of the 20 year

                 retirement plan;







                                                          4993



                            3183-a, by Senator LaValle, an act

                 to amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            3490-A, by Senator Seward, an act

                 to amend the Insurance Law;

                            3870-A, by Senator Hannon, an act

                 to amend the General Business Law;

                            4166, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to permit the reopening of the optional 20

                 year retirement plan;

                            4238-B, by Senator Trunzo, an act

                 authorizing the County of Suffolk;

                            4388-B, by Senator Marcellino, an

                 act in relation to authorizing;

                            4405-A, by Senator Larkin, an act

                 to amend the General Municipal Law;

                            4459, by Senator Marchi, an act to

                 amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law;

                            4467-A, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Labor Law;

                            4745-A, by Senator Fuschillo, an

                 act directing the transfer of certain parcels;

                            4771, by Senator Skelos, an act

                 authorizing the transfer of John Roll into the

                 optional 20 year retirement plan;

                            4925, by Senator Hannon, an act to







                                                          4994



                 amend Chapter 884 of the Laws of 1990;

                            5134-A, by Senator Padavan, an act

                 to authorize the commissioner;

                            5225, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Town Law;

                            5318, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;

                            5484-B, by Senator Leibell, an act

                 to amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            5701, by Senator Padavan, an act to

                 amend the General City Law;

                            5712, by Senator Hannon, an act to

                 amend the New York State Medical Care

                 Facilities Finance Agency Act;

                            5734, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law;

                            5736-A, by Senator Saland, an act

                 to establish a public library district;

                            5746, by Senator Marchi, an act to

                 amend the Navigation Law;

                            5748, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 provide for the enrollment;

                            5753, by Senator Rath, an act to

                 Chapter 118 of the Laws of 1893;

                            5776, by Senator Meier, an act to







                                                          4995



                 amend the Tax Law;

                            5777-A, by Senator Skelos, an act

                 to amend Chapter 582 of the Law of 1998;

                            5807, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 in relation to authorizing;

                            5819, by Senator Morahan, an act

                 authorizing the reopening of the 20 year

                 retirement plan;

                            5824, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 authorizing the State University of New York;

                            5830, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

                 to amend the Education Law;

                            5878, by Senator Marcellino, an act

                 to amend Chapter 548 of the Laws of 1995;

                            5903, by Senator Bruno, an act to

                 allow Joanne Reimann to receive retirement

                 service credit;

                            5911, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend Chapter 886 of the Laws of 1972; and

                            5790, by Senator Lack, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            All bills directly for third

                 reading.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept







                                                          4996



                 the report of the Rules Committee.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    We will return to

                 the report of the Rules Committee.

                            The motion is to accept the report

                 of the Rules Committee.  All those in favor

                 say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The motion is

                 passed and the report is accepted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 I believe the Minority has withdrawn their lay

                 aside on Calendar Number 1286 and 1312, by

                 Senator Marchi, if we could call up those

                 bills now.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read 1286.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1286, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4475, an

                 act in relation to authorizing the City of New

                 York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.  Read the last







                                                          4997



                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Call up Calendar

                 1312, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 1312.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1312, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4476-B,

                 an act in relation to authorizing the City of

                 New York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.  Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is







                                                          4998



                 passed.  Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 413,

                 by Senator Volker.  That is on the

                 supplemental active list.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 413, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2059, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

                 are you requesting an explanation?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Madam

                 President, explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

                 an explanation has been requested Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 this is a bill that has passed this house on a

                 number of occasions, and in fact I hesitate

                 and regret to say was agreed to with the

                 Governor here some years ago, and then by some

                 confusion was vetoed by the Governor after I

                 had come to an agreement with the previous

                 counsel to the Governor.







                                                          4999



                            We had watered down a piece of

                 legislation sponsored by Harvey Weisenberg and

                 myself that would deal with confidential

                 communications between union officials, part

                 of the bargaining unit and police officers.

                            The bill, you know, merely allows

                 the privilege where police officers have

                 communicated with elected union officials in

                 an attempt to get some advice and to avoid a

                 situation where people could be compelled to

                 in effect testify against people in

                 disciplinary proceedings because of the fact

                 that they communicated with a law enforcement

                 officer.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would the sponsor yield to a

                 couple of questions?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  I

                 believe that police officers are well versed

                 in how it is that they should or should not

                 disclose information and they are well trained







                                                          5000



                 in what it is that they are supposed to tell

                 defendants what they can and can not say, that

                 they can be represented by counsel.  And I am

                 wondering in light of the expertise that law

                 enforcement officers have on the law, why it

                 is that you believe that they can not just

                 wait to speak with their attorney rather than

                 being able to have this kind of

                 confidentiality with the union rep.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    First of all,

                 Senator Duane, what you believe I don't

                 believe is correct.  I was a former police

                 officer and I can tell you that most police

                 officers are not that tuned to many of the

                 rules and the law and things of that nature.

                 Besides, what your talking about here, your

                 probably right, they probably should consult

                 with an attorney in many cases, but in most

                 cases where there are disciplinary proceedings

                 and things of that nature they consult with

                 the union official where they would not

                 consult with an attorney because there

                 wouldn't be any particular necessity to

                 consult with a lawyer or at least they don't

                 believe there is.  They probably might be







                                                          5001



                 better off to consult with an attorney and

                 that presents a whole different issue because

                 then they don't talk to anybody.

                            But I think most law enforcement

                 officers feel more comfortable, many as I

                 assume you are aware may not even like

                 lawyers.  I know a lot of police officer

                 friends of mine who don't like lawyers, and

                 that is one reason why they consult with some

                 of the union officials.

                            The whole idea is to set up some

                 sort of ability, limited ability to provide

                 some privilege where law enforcement officials

                 do consult with union officials, short by the

                 way of compelling them in effect to go and to

                 seek legal assistance.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    If the sponsor

                 would yield to another question, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

                 would you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Sure.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am frankly







                                                          5002



                 conflicted because I don't -- while I suppose

                 I should share the sponsor's concern that

                 police officers don't know the laws which

                 govern their interaction with those who they

                 have detained, I do believe that even if the

                 case is that they don't, that they should know

                 the laws regulating what it is and is not that

                 they can be speaking with a defendant about.

                 And of course one of the most important tenets

                 is that a defendant or someone who has been

                 arrested has the right to talk to their

                 attorney.

                            I think maybe I heard it but I was

                 wondering if the sponsor could reiterate for

                 me again why it is that a police officer needs

                 an additional layer of confidentiality beyond

                 those afforded to everybody else which is

                 their attorney or their clergy person, or in

                 most cases their psychiatrist.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Senator, I think

                 you are thinking of defendants.  This is not

                 necessarily that kind of a situation at all.

                 This is, if you read the bill, we're talking

                 about -- most of the issues that are involved,







                                                          5003



                 if this is a criminal case or whatever, if

                 someone is charging a police officer with a

                 crime, he is going to get an attorney.

                            We're talking primarily about

                 issues relating to working conditions and

                 wages and hours.  In other words, where he is

                 dealing with situations involving

                 communication maybe with the city or whatever,

                 primarily disciplinary.

                            And if you know -- you probably

                 don't realize that what happens, and I'm not

                 -- I didn't come from a major police

                 department, a big police department, but it

                 was a good size police department, but I can

                 tell you that commanding officers sometimes

                 bring charges against law enforcement people

                 because they don't like what they did.  That

                 does not necessarily mean it is a crime or if

                 it is even necessarily improper procedure.

                 But at times there are grievances brought

                 against or brought by a police officer and

                 vice versa because the commanding officer may

                 just feel that he did not like the way

                 somebody did something.  And the fact that a

                 police officer -- you say they have somebody







                                                          5004



                 else has.  I have news for you.  Police

                 officers don't have as many rights in some

                 ways as a lot of other people do because they

                 can be brought up on charges where the average

                 individuals can not be brought up on charges

                 in ways which can effect their work life and

                 can effect the shifts that they work, can

                 effect wages, can effect all sorts of things;

                 pension benefits.

                            So what we are just saying here,

                 and this is a fairly straight forward bill by

                 the way.  Initially this bill admittedly was a

                 more inclusive bill but it was whittled down

                 to deal strictly with advice to elected union

                 officials and probably, frankly, will not

                 apply to very many situations because you are

                 absolutely right, any police officer worth his

                 salt is probably in any serious situations

                 going to look for a lawyer, and once he looks

                 for a lawyer he is not up going to talk to

                 anybody.

                            But a lot of police officers I

                 think in certain cases, and this is a bigger

                 problem for some of the elected union

                 officials.  There is only a handfull of







                                                          5005



                 elected union officials, as you know.  They

                 just want to be in a situation where if they

                 give some advice to somebody, for instance,

                 give advice to them on attorneys or things of

                 that nature, that they won't be called on the

                 carpet or called into question for what they

                 have said.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would yield to

                 another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

                 will you yield to an additional question?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Sure.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

                 you may proceed with one question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    But there is

                 nothing now that precludes, that forces police

                 officers to speak with someone before they are

                 able to speak with their attorney, is that

                 correct?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Forces someone

                 to speak with somebody?  No, there is nothing

                 that forces them to speak with somebody.

                 There is nobody that forces somebody, anybody,







                                                          5006



                 to speak to somebody.

                            This is where a person consults

                 with a union official with the idea of getting

                 some advice, whether it is on a disciplinary

                 matter or whatever it is.  It is not a

                 situation where he is forced to do it, no, but

                 the idea is that whatever communication occurs

                 can not be used in a proceeding, and primarily

                 this would be a disciplinary proceeding

                 against a police officer.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane on

                 the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Just

                 to begin with because I didn't know how to

                 work it into a question, so I didn't, but I

                 may or may not like attorneys although

                 actually they are okay with me, I even have

                 some in my family and everything, but just

                 because I don't particularly care for them

                 doesn't mean that I should not have to speak

                 with them any way when a case should arise.

                 Maybe I would prefer, instead of speaking to

                 attorney that I would want to talk to the







                                                          5007



                 Minority Leader or something that is allegedly

                 in charge of me, although that is probably not

                 the case there very often either, but I think

                 that what this does is created a special carve

                 out for law enforcement officers which is not

                 necessary.

                            In my experience there are

                 attorneys that work for organizations that

                 represent law enforcement officers that

                 generally if something achieves the level

                 where you would be concerned about

                 confidentiality then in fact an attorney is

                 the person you should speak with and have your

                 conversation protected that way.  I don't

                 think that we should carve out another

                 category beyond attorneys and clergy people et

                 cetera. for police officers.  And I also put

                 that in the context of some particularly

                 perhaps prior to and including these times

                 when there have been concerns about what has

                 been happening, particularly with the New York

                 City police department, that it would be best

                 if we did keep the same playing field for

                 everyone and that confidential communications

                 be kept exempt provided they are with







                                                          5008



                 attorneys.  So I am intending on voting no on

                 this legislation, Madam President.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57, nays

                 two.  Senators Duane and Schneiderman recorded

                 in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 would you please call up on the first

                 supplemental active list -- no, the second

                 supplemental active list, Calendar Number

                 1017, by Senator Goodman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1017, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4038,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to the issuance of temporary







                                                          5009



                 permits.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator Goodman, an explanation has been

                 requested by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator Duane,

                 this bill extends the time that the SLA may

                 allow a licensee to operate its business while

                 an application for the transfer of the license

                 is pending before the SLA.

                            Currently the SLA may issue

                 temporary permits to applicants for up to 90

                 days with one 30 day renewal period.  Such an

                 extension will allow tranferees to avoid the

                 threat of having to shut down their businesses

                 awaiting SLA approval of their transfer

                 applications.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    If the sponsor

                 would yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator Goodman, would you yield to Senator

                 Duane?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will.







                                                          5010



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    He

                 yields, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    As I read this,

                 Senator, I just want to understand to make

                 sure that I am understanding this, under the

                 present law a temporary license can be

                 renewed, can be given, issued for 90 days and

                 that's it, is that correct?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    It is not,

                 Senator, no.  As I said, it is up to 90 days

                 with one 30 day renewal period.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Up to 90 days and

                 a day -

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    With one 30 day

                 renewal.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    After the 90

                 days.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    So it is 120

                 days altogether.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And this would

                 add another, through you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator Goodman, do you continue to yield?

                            I assume he continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Another 60 days?







                                                          5011



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, yes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And with that, if

                 the Senator could tell me what the rational is

                 for this?  Why is it that this additional 60

                 days is needed?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This gives a

                 reassurance that there will be ample

                 deliberation by the SLA for an application and

                 that it will not be turned down because of an

                 overload of work by the SLA and a shortage of

                 time for consideration.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    Are

                 you asking him to continue to yield?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    He

                 yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am wondering if

                 the rational for this is that the SLA is over

                 burdened and it needs relief?







                                                          5012



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This relates to

                 a transfer of a license.  I trust you are

                 clear it is not a new license.  It would give

                 an extra amount of time for consideration

                 where time may become a factor.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    (Nods head.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    He continues to

                 yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Why is it now

                 that the SLA is unable to perform its function

                 within 120 days?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    There are times

                 when this type of a temporary permit can

                 become very complex and requires adequate

                 inspectorial review by the SLA.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator, do you continue to yield.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    (Nods head.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    He







                                                          5013



                 does.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is the time

                 needed because it is so complicated they need

                 more time to think about it or it is so

                 complicated they need to give more resources

                 to it.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I'm sorry, I

                 couldn't hear the question, Senator.  Would

                 you repeat it?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is the reason

                 that you believe they need more time because

                 the agency is -- because the employees of the

                 agency needs more time to think about the

                 temporary license or whether it should become

                 permanent or not, or is it because they are

                 over burdened at the SLA with too many

                 temporary applications?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This is a

                 departmental bill. I do not have the

                 familiarity with their inner workings to be

                 able to respond explicitly to the question,

                 but it is their believe that they need it and

                 I see no reason to assume that they do not.

                            The present SLA is being well run

                 and it is my belief that therefore they are







                                                          5014



                 entitled to have this consideration in regard

                 to these specialized matters.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    On the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

                 Senator Duane on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am going to

                 vote against this legislation.

                            My experience in my district, which

                 incidentally is I think similar although maybe

                 even more so than Senator Goodman's district

                 of some of the other Senators, particularly

                 Manhattan, on almost every block we have

                 liquor licensed establishments co-existing

                 with residents.  And though the vast majority

                 of businesses in my district are blended in

                 well with the community, they are not bad

                 neighbors, they are not -- they don't become

                 problem establishments, sadly probably

                 anywhere from maybe three to five percent of

                 liquor license established are problematic.

                 And often the times when you find out that an

                 establishment is going to be problematic is

                 exactly during that time when the

                 establishment changes hands and the new







                                                          5015



                 ownership is not as good a neighbor as the

                 previous one was.

                            In nine times out of ten cases

                 where we have a problem establishment you can

                 see that from the very beginning of the change

                 in ownership and I think that it is very

                 problematic to allow these places the

                 opportunity to stay in business for an even

                 longer period of time.

                            I'm not compelled that the staff

                 and the commissioners of the SLA need more

                 time.  I believe that they are probably pretty

                 good at their jobs and actually know what the

                 issues are in most of these cases.

                            If it is a matter of their being

                 over burdened then the way to solve that

                 problem is to fund the agency appropriately so

                 they can handle the work load as opposed to

                 transferring the burden on to neighborhood

                 residents who may, in fact, be victimized by

                 the new establishment whose licensee, the

                 person that the license is being transferred

                 to, doesn't care about the rest of the

                 neighborhood.

                            So I just think it's creating bad







                                                          5016



                 public policy at that time when, sadly, 95

                 percent of the complaints that I get in my

                 office from establishments come from those

                 three to five percent of establishments which

                 caused problems in my district, and as I

                 previously mentioned, you can usually find

                 that out about them from the get go.

                            I would urge my colleagues to vote

                 no on this.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 58, nays

                 one. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1005, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 778-A,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last







                                                          5017



                 section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    May I ask who

                 requested it, Madam President, please?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Me again.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane

                 requested an explanation.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, this

                 bill would require a 15 day notice to

                 community boards before the SLA schedules a

                 hearing to issue a retail license for an on

                 premises consumption for a premises within 500

                 feet of three or more existing premises.

                            Current law requires such notice

                 but does not contain any time requirement.  It

                 also creates a new special category known as a

                 cabaret license for premises which feature

                 musical entertainment, singing, dancing, or

                 other forms of entertaining which have a

                 capacity of 600 or more persons.

                            This new class of license will

                 allow the SLA to tailor its oversite and

                 procedures with larger entertaining







                                                          5018



                 establishments, scrutinize them more closely

                 because of their scale and the potential for

                 noise and neighborhood disturbance.  They are

                 an appropriately classifiable group that

                 should be given special examination in

                 applying for a license.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Could you just, Senator, through

                 you, Madam President, if the sponsor would

                 just give me an idea of what -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, would

                 you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    (Nods head.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane, with a question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I know I am rushing ahead of

                 myself.  If the sponsor would just tell me

                 what the impetus for this legislation has

                 been?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This was based

                 upon the desire of the community boards to be







                                                          5019



                 given an adequate opportunity for

                 consideration.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, one

                 last question, Madam President?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I am always at

                 your disposal for any question whatsoever of

                 any size, shape or dimension, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I think that was

                 a yes.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    That was what I

                 was trying to say.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I more meant the

                 new category.  What was the impetus for the

                 creation of the new category of license?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I think if you

                 would let your imagination wander down the

                 highways and byways of your district and mine,

                 you will know that when cabarets are created

                 they have the potential to be very disturbing

                 indeed and that closer scrutiny of there

                 applications is eminently wise.







                                                          5020



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Because we even share some

                 highways and byways, and I think quite well,

                 we could -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, are you

                 on the bill or do you have a question?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Just on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    In the spirit of

                 sharing of highways and byways, I am

                 encouraging a yes vote.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1st.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1025, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4282-A,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law.







                                                          5021



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 an explanation has been requested by Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator Hevesi,

                 this bill amends the Alcohol and Beverage

                 Control Law and relates to applicants to the

                 SLA for substantial alterations to licensed

                 premises in the following manner.

                            First; it eliminates the

                 requirement that an application be filed for

                 the following types of alterations.  First;

                 exterior alterations involving the creation or

                 relocation of a window or door, an interior

                 alteration that materially effects the

                 physical structure.

                            Current law requires that the SLA

                 approve these types of alterations, which have

                 nothing to do with the sale of alcoholic

                 beverages.  These are business decisions and

                 should be left to the discretion of the

                 business owner without the interference of the

                 State.

                            Second, it expands the definition

                 of substantial alteration to include both







                                                          5022



                 indoor and outdoor alterations.  This is a

                 thing that was added to the bill at the

                 request of Senator Padavan, who legitimately

                 expressed concern with concern to the

                 possibility of outdoor cafes being added

                 without adequate review by the SLA.

                            Third, it revises the types of

                 alterations to dining or kitchen facilities

                 that require SLA improvement for any

                 enlargement or for contraction for any

                 material changes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would the sponsor yield to a few

                 questions?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Hevesi, with a question.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator Goodman,

                 I know this is a departmental bill.  My

                 question for you is, the change which would

                 exempt from applying to the State Liquor

                 Authority any establishment that made a change

                 involving the relocation of a door or a







                                                          5023



                 window.  Is it not possible that such a change

                 might have some type of consequence on a

                 surrounding community if a bar or whoever had

                 the liquor license was situated in close

                 proximity to private residences?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I don't believe

                 so, Senator, if you stop to visualize what is

                 going on here.  If you have an establishment

                 that serves liquor and it changes the location

                 of a door or a window, I don't believe that

                 would materially effect the situation in the

                 surrounding neighborhoods.

                            Let me just say as a matter of

                 interest to you that in my district there are

                 a number of noisy bars and I have seen to it

                 that the police department has been

                 distributed a series of noise meters which are

                 used to determine whether they exceed the

                 permissible decibel level under the

                 administrative code of the City of New York.

                 We actually paid for those so that the cops

                 could determine whether the noise restrictions

                 are being violated.  And in fact enabled them

                 to close several establishments with repeated

                 records for bad noise which were a disturbance







                                                          5024



                 to the neighborhood, but I don't think, from

                 our quite extensive experience with this

                 problem, that that would relate to the window

                 or a door alteration in the establishment.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi,

                 go ahead on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 I appreciate Senator Goodman's comments and I

                 am familiar with the noise statutes in the New

                 York City administrative code where if you

                 exceed 45 decibels at a range of 100 feet as

                 measured at a private residence you are in

                 violation.

                            I have a number of concerns with

                 the legislation that is before us, but before

                 I discuss those particular concerns I want to

                 commend Senator Goodman for the bill that he

                 sponsored last week which went in the opposite

                 direction and in fact required that when an

                 application was made for an establishment to

                 sell beer or wine that that application be

                 forwarded to the local community board which

                 would then review the application, make a







                                                          5025



                 determination and a recommendation and forward

                 it on to the SLA for a final determination.  A

                 terrific piece of legislation.  I supported

                 it.  I voted for it.

                            This legislation, I'm afraid, moves

                 us in the opposite direction and in my

                 district we have some serious problems with

                 bars that are located right next to

                 residential homes where if you move a door and

                 now put a door that was having patrons exit

                 onto a major thoroughfare and you move it onto

                 a side street now you have individuals who

                 very likely may have spent the last few hours

                 drinking exiting onto private residential

                 streets and causing littering and much

                 consternation to the local residents.

                            In addition, another thing that

                 this legislation would do would exempt -- make

                 another exemption in the case that the

                 structure of the establishment was changed,

                 and again I will only reference to you the

                 experiences that I have had in my district

                 where we have bars that have made an expansion

                 and that has encroached upon the residential

                 neighborhood.







                                                          5026



                            I am particularly concerned about

                 this not just on its face, but because of my

                 experiences lately with the State Liquor

                 Authority, and let me be specific about what I

                 am talking about which will demonstration why

                 I am going to vote no on this legislation and

                 why even the legislation that we passed last

                 week which requires that the community board

                 have added input I am afraid will not be

                 effective.

                            Here's why.  The State Liquor

                 Authority has been asked by myself and by two

                 other members of this institution on the other

                 side of the isle to be more responsive to

                 community concerns about the problems that are

                 associated with the sale of alcohol beverages

                 in our district.  In fact, we questioned the

                 SLA chair upon his nomination at the Senate

                 Finance Committee hearing and I voted in favor

                 of the chair based on his answers and I voted

                 for him on the Senate floor based on his

                 answer at that meeting.

                            Subsequent to that, Madam

                 President, I had a situation in my district in

                 which unique to the City of New York or







                                                          5027



                 anywhere else I believe for that matter, a

                 15,000 open air stadium is situated directly

                 in the middle of a residential property, and

                 in fact it is on a parcel that is zoned R-3,

                 residential in the City of New York.

                            We have had a repeated history of

                 problems associated with all day long concerts

                 taking place at this venue where beer sales

                 were permitted for eight straight hours.  And

                 without detailing the history, suffice it to

                 say that our repeated attempts to compel the

                 promoters of these concerts and the

                 proprietors of the West Side Tennis Club, the

                 establishment that has the contract with the

                 promoters to cut down on these beer sales or

                 eliminate them entirely so that you don't have

                 drunken and intoxicated concert goers

                 marauding through streets urinating and

                 littering as has been the case.

                            So I requested that the State

                 Liquor Authority deny a liquor license for any

                 event that took place at that stadium this

                 year, and they did. They denied it when it was

                 applied for several weeks ago.  And then, as

                 is administratively permissible, the concert







                                                          5028



                 promoters appealed and when they had this

                 appeal I left the Senate, so important was it

                 for me to appear personally in New York City

                 at this SLA hearing to tell the SLA

                 Commissioners why they must deny this liquor

                 license.  I left here early and went down and

                 told them that in addition to myself that four

                 other elected officials who represent the area

                 all were adamantly opposed to the granting of

                 a liquor license, including New York City

                 Councilwoman Karen Koslowitz, New York State

                 Assemblyman Michael Cohen, Queensborough

                 President Claire Schulman, and United States

                 Congressman Anthony Weiner, all adamantly

                 opposed.  I submitted statements in opposition

                 along, Madam President, with a petition signed

                 by 125 local residents urgently requesting

                 that the SLA deny the liquor license to the

                 concert promoters.

                            Suffice it to say that after a

                 lengthy hearing, which was acrimonious and

                 venomous with allegations and charges spewed

                 against me personally and I caught one of the

                 stadium representatives in a direct lie during

                 the hearing and presented evidence to the







                                                          5029



                 commissioners that they had lied.  Despite all

                 of this, despite the petition, despite the

                 vehement opposition of 125 local residents and

                 five elected officials, the SLA granted them a

                 liquor license for eight hours of beer sales

                 on that day.  Absolutely disgraceful.

                 Disgraceful.

                            Confirming my suspicions about the

                 problems with the State Liquor Authority as

                 many of my colleagues here are familiar with

                 and again leading me to believe that we must

                 be extremely leery of all of these authorities

                 and these quasi independent boards that truly

                 lack accountability.

                            So, as I stand here and speak about

                 this piece of legislation, which the State

                 Liquor Authority has requested and said don't

                 make us pass judgment based on the following

                 criteria, some of which I believe absolutely

                 will impact the community as the liquor sales

                 in these establishments might have adverse

                 impacts if a door is located, if a window is

                 situated in a different place and the noise

                 goes into the community or you have patrons

                 existing a particular way, or for unseen ways.







                                                          5030



                            Why would we want, having last week

                 passed a bill that would require greater

                 community responsibility and responsiveness in

                 the process, why would we want to move in the

                 opposite direction?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 why do you rise?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Will you yield

                 for just a moment, please?

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Certainly, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, I

                 think I can help you with this problem which

                 you have justly discussed in some fashion.

                            The bill is worded in such a way

                 that it says if there is any way material

                 change.  And I would submit to you that

                 anything that would change the exit pattern,

                 the egress of people out of the bar I will

                 call the, show me the way to go home pattern,

                 would be something that we would certainly

                 expect the SLA to be cognizant of and not to

                 -- to use the provision of this bill, or to

                 use the material change provision of the bill

                 to be permitted to intervene.







                                                          5031



                            So I am quite confident that your

                 concern in that regard is not one that you

                 should be worried about because a material

                 change would be anything that, even if a

                 window, that would result in substantial

                 additional noise and potential complaints this

                 would permit the SLA not to give that

                 automatic approval.

                            I believe that the spirit in which

                 the bill was drafted and I think it is

                 legitimate, we can certainly inform them of it

                 and indicate to them that we would expect that

                 our oversight, which is continuing of their

                 operation would enforce that.  So I merely

                 want you to be aware of that.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 would the sponsor yield to a question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 will you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    May I say that

                 by having made those comments, which are being

                 recorded by the Secretary, by the

                 stenographer, that that becomes a part of the

                 legislative intent of the bill.  By virtue of

                 my having stated this on the floor to you,







                                                          5032



                 this is considered a part of the permanent

                 record of the bill's adoption and that becomes

                 a statement of legislative intent on which the

                 SLA must rely.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    I assume that was

                 a yes, Senator Goodman?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    That was a yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi,

                 you may proceed with a question.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator Goodman,

                 I appreciate your comments but now you have me

                 confused.

                            If the addition of an egress or an

                 entrance to a facility would have to be

                 reviewed and the placement of a window would

                 have to be reviewed by the SLA, why is it

                 included in this bill specifically?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, as I

                 tried to explain there is a qualitative aspect

                 to this.  Not any door or window would have to

                 be reviewed, but any door or window which

                 would change the conditions in the immediate

                 neighborhood with regard to the exit flow of







                                                          5033



                 the crowd of people that are going to leave at

                 3:00 a.m. in the morning with boisterous

                 behavior such as you have describing,

                 anointing the local flowers in the

                 neighborhood and that sort of thing, that

                 would be something that would be taken into

                 serious consideration.  Certainly if windows

                 were of such nature that they would permit

                 abatement regulations to be breached, that too

                 would be a material consideration.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 if the sponsor would yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  Go ahead Senator, Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator Goodman,

                 if under this legislation establishments that

                 make a change to a door or window are not

                 required to file an application how would the

                 State Liquor Authority know that there was a

                 change and act accordingly in the community's

                 best interest?







                                                          5034



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    The answer to

                 that question rests in the matter of the plans

                 which are filed with the city buildings

                 department, which would enable anybody in the

                 neighborhood or thereabouts to file a

                 complaint.  This is not done in the dead of

                 night.  It is done in a public fashion so that

                 the plans that are being filed are -- there is

                 public access to them.

                            I presume in your neighborhood if

                 you thought there was some problem the

                 community board is undoubtedly as alert as

                 mine and they would complain about it.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                 Madam President, may I continue on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi on

                 the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                 Madam President, I'm not aware of any

                 requirement that when the owner of a bar or a

                 local establishment puts a window or a door in

                 that they are required to make a change of

                 plans or notify the community board.  And

                 unfortunately if this legislation passes they

                 will now be exempt from the current







                                                          5035



                 requirement of having to notify the State

                 Liquor Authority and the State Liquor

                 Authority currently would at least in theory,

                 but I doubt this I in practice based on my

                 experiences, would have to review and

                 determine whether such a change was in the

                 best interest of the community because such a

                 change under current law could potentially

                 have an adverse impact on the community, and I

                 don't know why it would be that with the

                 express language in this bill as stated there

                 would be an additional exemption from the

                 exemption which would solve this problem.

                            So, Madam President, again on this

                 bill, I believe we are moving in the wrong

                 direction on this legislation.  I am going to

                 vote no on it.  And I would just like to again

                 call attention to the very serious problem we

                 have currently with the State Liquor Authority

                 and their complete lack of accountability to

                 the requests of the community.  And may I

                 suggest that the State Liquor Authority exists

                 for one purpose.  And while it is to regulate

                 the industry that serve and distributes

                 alcoholic beverages, that is not their number







                                                          5036



                 one priority.  Their number one priority is to

                 make sure that the sale and distribution of

                 alcoholic beverages is done in a safe fashion

                 that doesn't adversely impact anyone. And they

                 have failed in my eyes this year and maybe on

                 other occasions in that mission and I am

                 afraid that this legislation would make it

                 easier for them to fail and send them the

                 wrong message at the exact same time that we

                 should be sending them the most unequivocally

                 clear message that they must, must, take into

                 consideration and into account the concerns of

                 the community when undertaking the very

                 serious responsibility of granting someone the

                 permission, the right, to sell alcoholic

                 beverages in our community.

                            I vote against this bill, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary







                                                          5037



                 will announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1025 are

                 Senators Duane, Fuschillo, Hevesi, Marcellino,

                 McGee, Onorato, Padavan, Paterson,

                 Schneiderman, Spano and Velella.  Also,

                 Senator Smith.  Also Senator LaValle.  Also

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            Aye 45, nays 14.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the controversial calendar as well

                 as the reading of the supplemental calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Gentlemen, if you

                 could take your conversations outside, please.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could

                 return to motions and resolutions, I believe

                 there are a couple motions to be made.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, Madam

                 President, on page 31, on behalf of Senator

                 Spano I offer the following amendments to

                 Calendar Number 817, Senate Print Number







                                                          5038



                 1492-A, and ask that the said bill retain its

                 place on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 received, Senator Seward, and the bill will

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Also, Madam

                 President, on behalf of Senator Saland, please

                 remove the sponsor star from Calendar Number

                 935.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    So ordered,

                 Senator Seward.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Are there any

                 substitutions to be made?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, there are,

                 Senator Skelos, there is one substitution.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you please

                 make the substitutions.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 18,

                 Senator Bonacic, moves to discharge from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 6404-A, and

                 substituted it for the identical Third Reading







                                                          5039



                 512.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Substitution is

                 ordered.

                            Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, with unanimous consent I would like

                 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Number 413.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You will be so

                 recorded, Senator Paterson, as voting in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 413.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could go

                 to supplemental two of the active list at this

                 time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you please

                 call up Calendar Number 1059.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1059, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3121-A,







                                                          5040



                 an act to enact the student bill of rights.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside for the day.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Could you please

                 call up 1295, Calendar Number 1295, by Senator

                 Marchi.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1295, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5589, an

                 act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside for the day.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1346,

                 by Senator Saland.







                                                          5041



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1346, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5736-A,

                 an act to establish a public library district.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson

                 to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Just one

                 second Madam President.  Can way lay this

                 aside, Madam President?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I think Senator

                 Paterson inadvertently laid that aside.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson,

                 go ahead.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I don't mind

                 being a puppet, I just resent when they let







                                                          5042



                 the strings show.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Is there a

                 request for this bill to be laid aside,

                 gentlemen?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    No.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    No, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is not.

                 Alright.  The Secretary will call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Nanula.

                            SENATOR NANULA:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I would like to request unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1025.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You would be so

                 recorded, Senator Nanula, as voting in the

                 negative.

                            SENATOR NANULA:    Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    It is presently

                 on the desk but does not appear on the

                 calendar.  Would you please call up Calendar







                                                          5043



                 Number 1333, by Senator Larkin.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1333, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4405-A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law,

                 Chapter 444 of the Laws of 1997.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 can we please take that bill up now at this

                 time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            Senator Duane, why do you rise.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President,

                 I don't believe we have 1333 on our desks, do

                 we?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

                 why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Because Senator

                 Nanula was kind enough to lend me his copy

                 from his desk.  I would like an explanation,

                 Madam President.







                                                          5044



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, we have

                 a request for an explanation.

                            Senator Larkin an explanation has

                 been requested.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill is an addition to a bill

                 that we passed in 1997 which expires on 30

                 June, 1999.  The basic premise of this bill is

                 that we are going to increase the cap from

                 15,000,000 to 25,000,000 and increase the

                 period of operation from two to five years.

                            Earlier this year we had a public

                 hearing, and at that public hearing on April

                 28th, everyone that testified was very loud

                 and clear that the existing laws concerning

                 IDAs were not satisfactory enough to enable

                 industrial development agencies to clearly

                 carry out their responsibility.  The time

                 available to them from start -- concept of a

                 project to completion, two years was not

                 adequate.

                            It was requested by the IDAs,

                 developments and others, that the bill be made

                 permanent with the 25 years.   However, in







                                                          5045



                 trying to negotiate with the other house, we

                 set a target of five years and 25,000,000.

                            But I think what we need to

                 understand here is that projects include under

                 the IDA dormitories for educational

                 institutions, facilities as defined in Article

                 28 of the Public Health Law and housing

                 facilities primarily designed to be occupied

                 by individuals 60 years of age or over.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Stachowski, why do you rise.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Would

                 Senator Larkin yield for a couple questions?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Stachowski, with questions.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, through you, I know Senator, that







                                                          5046



                 this bill just deals with extending the time

                 frame to work on a project and the amount of

                 money they have to work on a project, but can

                 we expect to see some legislation that will

                 kind of contain some of the IDAs?

                            Out my way we have -- it seems like

                 everybody's got an IDA, and it seems like

                 their main business is currently to take

                 office companies from downtown Buffalo and

                 move them out to the suburbs, or take a

                 company that's tax abatement has run out in

                 their one town and move them over to another

                 town by saying they were going to move out of

                 state otherwise.  And all they are doing is

                 moving from town to town and not paying

                 anybody taxes idea and we are using these

                 things to create office buildings in the

                 industrial parks and have people locating

                 their offices at no expense and no gain really

                 to the tax payers of that community, just a

                 gain to that company because now they are in a

                 tax free building for the next ten years.

                            I know that this particular

                 legislation doesn't do anything to effect that

                 because under the current law that is what







                                                          5047



                 they are doing, but I am just wondering if we

                 are going to be giving them an increase in the

                 amount of money and an increase in the amount

                 of time to do projects, are we planning on

                 doing anything to curtail them from these

                 other operations that they are currently

                 doing?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Well, there are

                 provisions in certain legislation to eliminate

                 that kind of activity I think.  But I can say

                 that people at the hearing, that question was

                 asked and every one of them said they would

                 not participate in that.

                            I have not heard of anybody except

                 in Western New York were that was an issue.  I

                 questioned many people in IDAs on Long Island,

                 the Southern Tier, in the Hudson Valley and

                 even in the Capital Region, and they all

                 indicated that that was not part of their

                 game.  That is why they were trying to go to

                 the 25,000,000 in order to be insure that

                 projects were being maintained as a project

                 for project, rather than to rob Peter to pay

                 Paul.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator







                                                          5048



                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, through you again, the last

                 question.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I would

                 understand if you would not have it every

                 where else because we have so many in such a

                 small area.  And granted some of them work

                 better than others, but the net result is we

                 are not getting our maximum bang out of these.

                 We're actually hurting fellow municipalities

                 by taking their currently located businesses

                 and putting them into tax free locations.  And

                 I know that we have anti-pirating provision

                 now and they can go to court over that, but in

                 other words we are just planning on doing this

                 increase and doing a further extension and

                 that's all we are doing, and I'm not

                 questioning that is not going to work well in

                 other places, but since the place I represent

                 is western New York and since the places that

                 are hurt are places like the City of Buffalo,

                 I have got a real problem with this.







                                                          5049



                            And so do you anticipate seeing

                 anything that deals with this?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    I would hope

                 after we resolve this issue here we have

                 anticipated meetings between Brian McMann from

                 the business council and certain places such

                 as yours and I am sure Senator Mary Lou Rath

                 will agree with it or attest to it, that we

                 want to, first of all, I think in some of

                 these counties there are too many IDAs.  I

                 know in my own county that they have cut the

                 IDAs by 75 percent and I have noticed a better

                 blend of action on this.  I think that maybe

                 that might be the case.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you.

                 Madam President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the bill,

                 Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I don't

                 really have any problem with the concept of

                 IDAs that work properly getting a larger

                 amount of money to deal with in a longer time

                 frame to deal I with it, but I do have a

                 problem with the way that IDAs function in

                 western New York.  And I do have a problem







                                                          5050



                 with the way one town steals from another or

                 all of the towns steal from the city and we

                 end up with all these companies taking full

                 advantage of tax breaks, and we want to give

                 them tax breaks and we want to help companies,

                 but we don't want to have companies moving

                 every ten years when their tax break runs out

                 to another community to go for another ten

                 years in a new building for a tax break.  And

                 we don't want to have office buildings, and

                 particularly we don't want to have office

                 buildings going from prime locations and

                 hurting that municipality by giving them empty

                 office space to go to a tax free building

                 located in an industrial park.

                            That is a problem I have.  That is

                 not what IDAs were for, but that is what they

                 are being used for.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath, why

                 do you rise?

                            SENATOR RATH:    When Senator

                 Stachowski is finished.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

                 why do you rise?

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    They both







                                                          5051



                 want to speak after me because I like to hit

                 nerves every so often. I knew that Mary Lou

                 would get up because her IDA in particular is

                 the best at pirating without getting caught.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    That is on the

                 bill, Senator.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    And the guy

                 does a great job at it, and if I were Mary Lou

                 I would get up and defend that guy too,

                 because he does do it well.  But they are not

                 the only IDA that takes office space from

                 down-town Buffalo, and we have the same

                 situation in Cheektowaga where we have

                 industrial developmental on both sides of the

                 airport that they don't pay any taxes to the

                 school district or to the town because the

                 land is owned technically by the NFTA and all

                 of these insurance companies and other

                 companies are then considered travel related,

                 which beats me, but they are and so they don't

                 pay taxes either.

                            And we end up with a lot of prime

                 property being used by companies and not even

                 paying in kind fees, and that is a big problem

                 for some of these places, and the result is







                                                          5052



                 that the poor resident that lives there ends

                 up paying the tax load for all these

                 businesses that are using all these loop holes

                 to take advantage of tax breaks, and only

                 because of that I probably am going to vote

                 against this bill.

                            I am not suggesting that people

                 from other areas that don't have this

                 situation prevalent vote against it, I am just

                 saying that in my area in my situation I have

                 a hard time giving IDAs more authority because

                 I don't especially like some of the jobs they

                 are doing today.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I would like to thank you, Senator

                 Stachowski, for the kudos thrown to the

                 director of Amherst IDA.  I will certainly

                 pass those long, and being that it is coming

                 from you it will be even more wonderful. But I

                 rose for only one point, not to extend debate

                 when we have a lot on the agenda except to

                 say, Senator Stachowski, you raised an

                 extraordinarily important point that we in







                                                          5053



                 western New York debated long and hard for the

                 better part of ten years, and I believe much

                 of that is behind us, but what you point out

                 about the moving and the pirating, and even as

                 you said that I thought to myself and

                 commented to my colleague on my right, Bill

                 Stachowski just brought up another point of

                 smart growth, and I believe Senator Larkin

                 responded to that something on your question

                 as to talking with Brian McMann, and I think

                 there is a nub of something else here that is

                 caught up in future developments and I would

                 say in relation to Senator Larkin's hearing, I

                 sat there with him for the whole day and there

                 was not one person who was opposed to this

                 particular bill.

                            But I don't think our work is

                 finished and I appreciated your comments and

                 as we move forward with it we'll look for your

                 input because you are right, Bill, we have a

                 lot more work to do.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          5054



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 57, nays

                 two.  Senators Nanula and Stachowski recorded

                 in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.  Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

                 President, may I ask unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 1025?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, Senator Maltese, you will be so

                 recorded as voting in the negative.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I believe there

                 are some substitutions at the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read the substitutions.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon

                 moves to discharge from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7965, and

                 substitute for the identical Third Reading

                 1338.

                            Senator Kuhl moves to discharge







                                                          5055



                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 7371, and substitute for the identical Third

                 Reading 1341.

                            Senator Fuschillo moves to

                 discharge from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill 6909-A, and substitute it for

                 the identical Third Reading 1356.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The substitutions

                 are ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 on the regular calendar, would you please call

                 up Calendar Number 655, by Senator Maziarz.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 655, by Member of the Assembly Robach,

                 Assembly Print 2045, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:  Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 an explanation has been requested by Senators

                 Hevesi and Schneiderman and Duane.







                                                          5056



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you, very

                 much, Madam President.

                            Madam President, the bill before us

                 today promotes the implementation of a fire

                 arm accident prevention program for children

                 in elementary school.

                            This safety program is designed to

                 instruct children that when or if they should

                 find a fire arm they should stop, don't touch

                 it, leave the area and inform an adult.

                            The decision on whether to

                 implement a fire arm accident prevention

                 program will rest entirely upon each

                 individual school district, as will the type

                 of safety program taught by each school.  This

                 bill directs the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation to develop such a program in

                 consultation with the Education Department,

                 utilizing information from several successful

                 firearm safety programs currently in use.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Will the

                 sponsor yield to a few questions?







                                                          5057



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Surely, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Schneiderman, with a few questions.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 very much.

                            Senator, the bill that you are

                 proposing makes specific reference to the

                 Eddie Eagle Program several times; does it

                 not?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, it does,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And who

                 produces the Eddie Eagle Program?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    The Eddie Eagle

                 program is a recognized firearm safety

                 prevention program sponsored by the National

                 Rifle Association.  However, the bill is not

                 exclusive to that program, Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor will continue to yield, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, Madam







                                                          5058



                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, in

                 the purpose of the title it does state, does

                 it not, Senator, that the purpose is to

                 promote firearm accident prevention for

                 children in prekindergarten through sixth

                 grade by a program of firearm safety

                 instruction, utilizing a simple safety

                 message, stop, don't touch, leave the area,

                 tell an adult.  That is the first sentence of

                 the bill.

                            In fact, isn't that exact phrasing,

                 stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an

                 adult, which is in quotes in the bill, that is

                 the Eddie Eagle message; is it not, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    That is good

                 advice, I think to give to children should

                 they come upon a handgun or a weapon of some

                 sort.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, I

                 gather you are thinking of voting for this

                 bill, but is that not the explicit message?

                 It is in quotes in your bill, that is in all

                 of the Eddie Eagle materials?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    That is in the







                                                          5059



                 bill, and yes, it is contained in the Eddie

                 Eagle material.  And I think it is good advise

                 to tell that to a child, to stop, don't touch

                 the weapon, leave the area and inform an

                 adult.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, you

                 said that -- if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    The thing

                 that I think is of concern is if the purpose

                 of the bill is to teach a very specific that

                 is printed in quotes, and if there is only one

                 program in the United States that teaches, and

                 I have the material, stop, don't touch, leave

                 the area, tell an adult, it is a little

                 disingenuous to say that this is not something

                 that if not requiring, directs the state in

                 the direction of putting the Eddie Eagle

                 material out and available to our school

                 systems.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Is there

                 any other program that includes the mantra,







                                                          5060



                 stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an

                 adult that you are aware of, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, none that I

                 am aware of, Senator, but I want to make it

                 very plain and very clear, Senator, that the

                 bill does not require the Eddie Eagle program.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Let me ask

                 you a question, does this -- if the sponsor

                 would continue to yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Surely, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Is it not

                 correct, Senator, that this program would

                 authorize the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation to distribute materials on fire

                 arm safety to any school district that

                 requests them?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And is it

                 also not true that would authorize the

                 Department to utilize materials, again I am







                                                          5061



                 quoting from the bill, utilize materials from

                 appropriate nongovernmental organizations.  Is

                 that not correct?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.  It does

                 not limit the nongovernmental organizations.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I

                 understand.  Thank you.

                            But then isn't it the case that

                 this bill would authorize the Department of

                 Environmental Conservation, as it sets about

                 trying to find materials that teach the

                 lesson, stop, don't touch, leave the area,

                 tell an adult, to purchase material from the

                 National Rifle Association and in fact make

                 National Rifle Association materials the only

                 materials that are available to school

                 districts that request the Department, is that

                 not possible?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, no.  Is it

                 possible, or is it contained in the bill?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Let me

                 rephrase the question if I am not speaking

                 clearly enough.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    I am going to

                 ask, Senator Maziarz, are you continuing to







                                                          5062



                 yield to questions?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I am,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    All right,  go

                 ahead Senator Schneiderman, if you have a

                 question.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                 I appreciate the Senator's courtesy.

                            This bill, as I read it, and I may

                 be wrong, would authorize the Department of

                 Environmental Conservation to purchase the

                 National Riffle Association Eddie Eagle

                 materials, which are as far as I am aware the

                 only gun materials that teach this little

                 mantra, stop, don't touch, leave the area,

                 tell an adult, and make available the Eddie

                 Eagle materials to any school district in the

                 state that requests gun safety curricula.

                            Is it not true that this would

                 authorize, if not require, the Department of

                 Environmental Conservation, to do that?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    That is

                 absolutely not correct, Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Then I am

                 at a loss, Senator.  Could you explain to me







                                                          5063



                 where it says they have to make alternative

                 curricula available or that they are to make

                 multiple curricula available, or they can't

                 use Eddie Eagle?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    You just -- I

                 didn't say they could not use Eddie Eagle.

                 They could use Eddie Eagle, they could use

                 material from Handgun Control, Inc.  They

                 could use materials from Hands Without Guns,

                 they could use material from the living

                 Classroom Foundation, they could use material

                 from Straight Talk About Risk, they could use

                 any material that they wanted to use.  They

                 are not restricted by this legislation,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    They

                 meaning the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, with the

                 consultation of the Department of Education.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    But my

                 question very simply was isn't it possible,

                 that as a result of this, the only materials

                 that will be the made available to school

                 districts by the Department of Environmental







                                                          5064



                 Conservation, could be Eddie Eagle, as this

                 doesn't direct alternative curricula to be

                 made available or developed?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Senator, I will

                 answer that by saying it is also possible that

                 the only material the Department of

                 Environmental Conservation may use is

                 information about the Star Program from

                 Handgun Control, Inc.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I am

                 afraid that as I am reading this, if I am in

                 the Department of Environmental Conservation,

                 and the purpose, the first sentence of the

                 bill says, "The purpose is to teach the simple

                 safety message, stop, don't touch, leave the

                 area, tell an adult."  And I know that the

                 only program in the country that does that is

                 Eddie Eagle, why would I go to another

                 program, Senator?  Maybe you can help me out?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Because the

                 bill -- I'm sorry, Madam President, through

                 you.  Because the bill allows you to go

                 through any program which you feel is a good

                 program to teach a message, a message that if

                 a young child should come across a weapon,







                                                          5065



                 that they should not touch it, that they

                 should inform an adult.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I do.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Though

                 you, Madam President, in fact, Senator, if -

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Also, I'm

                 sorry, Senator, could I just finish my answer

                 to the last question.  I'm sorry, Madam

                 President.

                            Also the school district may chose

                 a program that it feels is better.  It is not

                 required to take this particular program

                 developed by the DEC.  It may choose the Star

                 Program, if you will.  Star meaning, not the

                 Star, more popular Star.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    There are

                 two very popular Star Programs where I come

                 from, Senator.

                            Madam President, if the sponsor

                 would continue to yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you







                                                          5066



                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I do,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    My

                 understanding is that the memorandum of

                 supports states that there will be no fiscal

                 impact for this program; is that correct?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:  Is it not

                 the case though that Section 11, 2503, which

                 authorizes the Department to obtain -- to

                 utilize materials from appropriate non

                 governmental organizations could result in the

                 purchase of materials from a nongovernmental

                 organization such as the National Rifle

                 Association?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Would the

                 Department purchase the materials?  I don't

                 know.  I think it would be up to them. I do

                 not know.  The nongovernmental agency may

                 supply them with materials.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I'm sorry.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I said, you







                                                          5067



                 know, that they could -- they may purchase

                 them, you know, a non -- one of the agencies

                 may supply them with the materials.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, if

                 this does require an expenditure of funds for

                 gun safety curricula, wouldn't that have a

                 fiscal impact, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    The local

                 school districts may choose to do that on

                 their own.  It is at their option.  If a local

                 school district doesn't opt in to the program,

                 Senator, then there would be no fiscal impact.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator,

                 if the sponsor would continue to yield, Madam

                 President?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator,

                 are you aware of the fact that Eddie Eagle is

                 actually the product of and owned by not the







                                                          5068



                 National Rife Association, but the National

                 Rifle Association Foundation that produces

                 Eddie Eagle, were you aware of that?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, I was not

                 aware that, Senator.

                            I am, however, aware, Senator, that

                 the Eddie the Eagle Program, and I don't think

                 we are here to debate the merits of the Eddie

                 the Eagle Program or not, but the United

                 States Department of Justice under the

                 Attorney General, Janet Reno, has put out a

                 publication which I will supply you a copy of,

                 called, "Promising Strategies to Reduce Gun

                 Violence."  And there is a particular sections

                 on education initiatives and alternative

                 prevention strategies which they recommend or

                 they list such programs as Child Development

                 Community Police in New Haven, Connecticut,

                 Calling the Shots, St. Paul, Minnesota, Hands

                 Without Guns, in Washington, D.C., the

                 Straight Talk about Risk, which is the Star

                 Program, and Eddie the Eagle Elementary Gun

                 Safety Education Program.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  That is interesting to note that it







                                                          5069



                 is on the list.

                            If the sponsor would continue to

                 yield, are you aware Senator, of why the Eddie

                 Eagle Program was developed and the history of

                 the development of the Eddie Eagle Program by

                 the National Rifle Association?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, I'm not,

                 Senator, because my bill is not about the

                 Eddie the Eagle Program.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, I'm

                 sorry, I thought we had agreed sometime ago

                 that this bill, since its makes reference

                 twice to -- lets clarify this, Senator.

                            Would the sponsor continue to

                 yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I do.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    And do you have a

                 question, Senator Schneiderman?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, I do.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    This bill

                 refers at least twice to the Eddie Eagle

                 Program and twice to the Eddie Eagle lesson,







                                                          5070



                 stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an

                 adult. And refers no where to any other safety

                 program curriculum; is that not true, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    That is true,

                 Senator, but it also says, it also says that

                 such firearms safety instruction program may

                 utilize materials and assistance from

                 appropriate nongovernmental organizations to

                 the extent deemed reasonable and necessary and

                 so forth.  So it is not limited to the Eddie

                 the Eagle Program.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, but

                 just to make sure that we're clear on this,

                 you are saying it is not limited to, but if I

                 read this correctly, it is at the discretion

                 of the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation in consultation with the

                 Department of Education under your bill

                 whether they distribute materials from one

                 program such as Eddie Eagle, or five programs

                 or they develop their own; is that not true?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    That is true.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So, it is

                 possible that the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation, since Eddie Eagle is the only







                                                          5071



                 program referred to, might just choose to

                 distribute the Eddie Eagle Program as a result

                 of this bill; is that not true, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, it is.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So, if the

                 Department of Environmental Conservation

                 obtains from NRA and distributes Eddie Eagle

                 material to any school districts requesting

                 gun safety curricula, that would meet the

                 Environmental Conservation Department's

                 obligation under the bill; is that not true?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Well, Senator,

                 what if they don't?  What if they choose the

                 Handgun Inc. program of the Star Program, and

                 used those materials that they may deem

                 appropriate?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    My

                 question though, Senator, I look forward to

                 the day when perhaps in a different

                 administration the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation may choose to development

                 curricula developed by other organizations,

                 but my question is, very simple.

                            We are setting up a situation in

                 which, is it not true, in which it would meet







                                                          5072



                 the requirements of this bill for the

                 Department of Environmental Conservation to

                 simply purchase from the NRA or obtain from

                 the NRA and distribute to school districts

                 that request them Eddie Eagle materials?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    And my answer

                 to you, Senator, is also very simple.  And

                 that is that the Department, under this piece

                 of legislation, may purchase materials from

                 Handgun Control Inc. and use that in

                 developing the requirements under this

                 legislation.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor continues to yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, you may proceed with another

                 question.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator

                 Maziarz, coming back to my question, since it

                 is possible that pursuant to your legislation

                 Eddie Eagle materials may be distributed by

                 the Department of Environmental Conservation,







                                                          5073



                 I return to my question, are you familiar with

                 the genesis of the Eddie Eagle Program,

                 Senator Maziarz?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    In a general

                 way I am, Senator, yes.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator,

                 are you aware of the fact that the Eddie Eagle

                 Program was developed in Florida in 1988 as a

                 part of campaign by the NRA to kill child

                 access prevention legislation that would have

                 made it -- made adults responsible if they

                 failed to store firearms in a manner

                 reasonable designed to prevent access by

                 children?  Were you aware of the fact that

                 that is when it was developed, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Again, Senator,

                 I remind you that this bill is not about the

                 Eddie the Eagle Program.

                            What I am aware of Senator is that

                 this bill attempts to sent the message to

                 elementary school children that should they

                 come across a weapon that they should stop,

                 that they should not touch it, that they

                 should leave the area and that they should

                 inform an adult.







                                                          5074



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Madam

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator,

                 may I ask, why is it necessary in this bill,

                 if you are saying it is not about Eddie Eagle,

                 to repeatedly refer to Eddie Eagle and not

                 refer to any other programs?  Is there some

                 reason that you felt that was necessary?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Madam

                 President, through you, it was one program

                 that quite frankly I was familiar with.  I did

                 read the very positive information about it

                 contained in this U.S. Department of Justice,

                 Janet Reno report, and I thought it may be a

                 good starting point but not the only point

                 that the DEC and the Department of Education

                 should take into consideration when developing







                                                          5075



                 this very important accident prevention

                 program.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Madam

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So then

                 you really have -- your position is that what,

                 Eddie Eagle was the program that you knew, but

                 you have no objection to the result of the

                 bill being for the Department to distribute

                 materials from some other programs if that's

                 what it deems approximate?  Is that correct?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I'm sorry,

                 Senator, I think I have answered that

                 question.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, it

                 is.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Probably four

                 times already.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    It may

                 sound similar, but what I am saying is that

                 you just stated something interesting, that







                                                          5076



                 you mention Eddie Eagle you said because that

                 was the program you were familiar with, but

                 would it satisfy you if the Department of

                 Environmental Conservation, as a result of

                 this bill, makes available materials other

                 than Eddie Eagle and does not make available

                 Eddie Eagle?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    The Department

                 -- that is really what this bill is all about,

                 the Department is directed to come up with a

                 program utilizing appropriate materials to

                 prevent accidents with guns by small children.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So, I'm

                 sorry, we may not -- the day is late, we may

                 not be communicating as well as we usually do.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, I think,

                 Senator, you may not be hearing the answers

                 you want.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I may not

                 be hearing the answers to the question I am

                 asking.  But Madam President if the sponsor

                 would continue to yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 are you continuing to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Absolutely,







                                                          5077



                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, you may proceed.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 very much, Madam President. My question is,

                 very straight forward.  If the Department of

                 -

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    So was my

                 answer.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    The

                 Department of Environmental Conservation

                 chose, after his bill was passed and it sought

                 to implement it in good faith, to distribute

                 materials other than Eddie Eagle, not to

                 distribute Eddie Eagle materials, would that

                 be okay with you?  Does that meet the intent

                 of your bill as long as they were gun safety

                 materials?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Senator, I

                 think that the bill provides the mechanism for

                 the Department of Environmental Conservation

                 in consultation with the State Education

                 Department to utilize whatever appropriate

                 materials that they deem necessary to prevent

                 accidents, to prevent young children from







                                                          5078



                 having access and hurting themselves with

                 weapons.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Madam

                 President, through you, what I'm not clear

                 about, and maybe I am just asking the

                 questions in an inarticulate way, is whether

                 or not the sponsor would be satisfied if as a

                 result of this bill the Department doesn't

                 distribute Eddie Eagle materials at all, but

                 just distributes other gun safety materials?

                 Eddie Eagle is in this twice for -- I can't

                 believe it is for no reason and I am wondering

                 if it would be okay with you if the Department

                 distributes other material other than the

                 Eddie Eagle in response to this bill, and I am

                 unable to get a yes or no answer.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Well, I'm not

                 going to give you a yes or not answer,

                 Senator, because it is very clearly spelled

                 out in the bill.  You read it earlier and I

                 will read it again.  Such firearm safety

                 instruction program may utilize materials and

                 assistance from appropriate nongovernmental

                 organizations to the extent deemed reasonable

                 and necessary.







                                                          5079



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Madam President, is the sponsor aware of

                 any studies or reports relating to the

                 effectiveness of the Eddie Eagle Program?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Madam

                 President, yes, I am.

                            I am aware of the one that I

                 pointed out to you earlier from the United

                 States Department of Justice.  I'm not going

                 to repeat myself.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Not to

                 repeat yourself, although I certainly am happy

                 to indulge if that happens through mishap.

                            Is the sponsor aware of the 20/20

                 report that filmed children being taught the

                 Eddie Eagle Program and then had hidden

                 cameras to film the activities with guns after

                 being instructed in the Eddie Eagle Program?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, the

                 sponsor is aware of that.  The sponsor is also

                 aware of another ABC news report from April

                 9th of 1998 at which the exact opposite was

                 shown, where a segment by Peter Jennings

                 showed children who had gone threw a safety

                 program, a weapons safety program who, when







                                                          5080



                 they were secretly video taped did exactly

                 what they were taught to do.  When they were

                 playing with these toys and they came across a

                 gun that had been disarmed and they ran and

                 told their teacher or an adult.

                            So it showed, on this show with

                 Peter Jennings, which was ABC, the exact

                 opposite of what that 20/20 program showed.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator,

                 did the -- is the sponsor continuing -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, are you

                 continuing to yield?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I am,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            Have you seen the 20/20 program,

                 Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I have

                 Senator.  And I also saw that Peter Jennings

                 show that I just mentioned.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And have

                 you seen any of the work or writings of the







                                                          5081



                 psychology professor whose child was one of

                 the participants in the 20/20 program?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    What was that

                 person's name?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    She has

                 written -

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I am sure there

                 are a lot of psychologists shown on 20/20,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, I

                 have the materials.  Her name is Margery

                 Hardy.  Most recent on this subject was an

                 op-ed column in the New York Times about two

                 weeks ago.  Are you familiar with that?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, I'm not

                 familiar with her, Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    To put it

                 mildly, Senator, the 20/20 program, Ms.

                 Hardy's writings, have at least cast some

                 doubt on the effectiveness of the Eddie Eagle

                 program, and I ask you, as a parent of a small

                 child, I have a thought as to why that may be,

                 do any of the Eddie Eagle materials ever tell

                 children why they should not touch a gun?  Are

                 you familiar with any Eddie Eagle comic book,







                                                          5082



                 video, fun pack, action materials or otherwise

                 that inform children as to what the possible

                 consequences of touching a gun are?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Senator, I

                 think, through you Madam President, I think,

                 Senator, the message, stop, don't touch, leave

                 the area, tell an adult.  I think that is a

                 fairly clear message, Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Madam

                 President, through you again, my question is,

                 I assume you are familiar with the Eddie Eagle

                 material, Senator, since it is in your bill

                 twice?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Are you

                 aware of any statement in any Eddie Eagle

                 material of any kind, and I have attempted to

                 read every bit I could get my hands on, and

                 watched their videos, that tells children, as

                 a part of the instruction, why you shouldn't

                 touch a gun?  What is the possible harm of

                 touching a gun?  Are you aware of any

                 statement in Eddie Eagle materials to that

                 effect?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Senator, I am







                                                          5083



                 aware that the Eddie Eagle material tells

                 children that they should stop, leave the

                 area, don't touch the gun and tell an adult

                 and I think that is a pretty clear message.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So is the

                 answer to my question no, that you are not

                 aware of any statements of the consequences?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    The answer to

                 your question is exactly what I said.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Okay.

                 Well I take you at your word, Senator, that

                 this is not a bill about Eddie Eagle, and in

                 that spirit, I have prepared an amendment, and

                 I believe, Madam President, there is an

                 amendment at the desk?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    That's correct,

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I would

                 waive reading and request that we be allowed

                 to proceed.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    We have reviewed

                 it, Senator Schneiderman, and it is germane to

                 the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If I may

                 provide an explanation?







                                                          5084



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The reading will

                 be waived and you may explain it, Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    This

                 amendment is exactly the same as Senator

                 Maziarz's bill with the exception of the fact

                 that it deletes the specific references to

                 Eddie Eagle and to the Eddie Eagle lesson.

                            It authorizes the Department of

                 Environmental Conservation and Department of

                 Education -- in consultation with the

                 Department of Education, to develop and

                 implement a firearms safety instruction

                 program.  It says that you can provide the

                 resources in the same way as Senate Maziarz

                 bill and that every elementary school district

                 may instruct children and obtain materials

                 from the Department, the same as in Senator

                 Maziarz bill.

                            The only thing different is that

                 this takes out the reference to the National

                 Rifle Association curriculum, Eddie Eagle and

                 the Eddie Eagle mantra, stop, don't touch,

                 leave the area, tell an adult.

                            I would strongly urge my colleagues







                                                          5085



                 that this amendment would enable Senator

                 Maziarz dream of a bill that is open to Eddie

                 Eagle, but also open to other programs to come

                 to fruition without any possibility of

                 misinterpretation by bureaucrats in the

                 Department of Environmental Conservation who

                 might say, well, gee, what program should I

                 give out, I don't know, it refers twice to

                 Eddie Eagle, it refers twice to the Eddie

                 Eagle lesson, I guess I should give out Eddie

                 Eagle, and I know that is not the way Senator

                 Maziarz is intending, and I urge all of you

                 that this amendment accomplishes the precisely

                 the same result.  This is what you want to do

                 if you want to authorize the Department to

                 openly and honestly evaluate which is the best

                 gun safety program and make that available in

                 our elementary schools, so I strongly urge

                 that all who support an open approach to gun

                 safety curriculum and not an approach that

                 attempts to steer or push the State of New

                 York into the arms of the National Rifle

                 Association to support this friendly amendment

                 to Senator Maziarz bill and I would urge all

                 to vote in favor of this amendment so that we







                                                          5086



                 can move forward, get a gun safety curriculum

                 into our elementary schools and enable the

                 good Senator's vision to come to fruition.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Is there any

                 other member who wishes to speak on this

                 amendment?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I wish to

                 speak.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the amendment,

                 Senator?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No, not on the

                 amendment, but I do wish to speak on the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the amendment.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, I just rise to toss out one fact in

                 favor of the amendment.  In the entire time

                 that I have been in this chamber where we have

                 debated bills about patriotism and the flag

                 and curriculums for education in this State,

                 we have never to my knowledge, never told the

                 Department of Education what particular

                 curriculum to use.







                                                          5087



                            We have allowed the professionals

                 that we have hired, that are hired and paid

                 for by the taxpayers of this State to figure

                 out what the best curriculum approach that is.

                 The theory being that if what we want to do is

                 get a message across that embodies patriotism

                 or the holocaust or the Irish potato famine,

                 anyone one of the things that are referenced

                 in this portion of the Education Law, what we

                 should do is we should allow the educational

                 experts to figure out what the right message

                 is.

                            I appreciate the fact that Senator

                 Maziarz, as I read the bill includes two

                 references. Correct, it does not mandate Eddie

                 Eagle, but it does included two references,

                 and it may mislead the Department into

                 thinking that that is the appropriate

                 standard.

                            I think we could develop a

                 different standard.  I would hope they develop

                 the right standard for New York, but just

                 realize that this specific reference to a

                 specific program is inconsistent with every

                 other time we have mandated a curriculum







                                                          5088



                 improvement in education in New York State.

                 We have, never to my knowledge, said teach

                 X,Y, Z version of the holocaust, or teach

                 Professor Jones' version of the Irish potato

                 famine.  We have stayed away from endorsing

                 any product or making any reference to a

                 product, I would just encourage affirmative

                 votes in favor of the amendment because I

                 believe that the way to do it is to leave it

                 to our professionals.  If they agree with

                 Senator Maziarz that Eddie Eagle is a proper

                 standard and it works and that there is

                 evidence in support that it works and it is

                 certainly going to be used in other states,

                 then it has got credibility as an educational

                 tool, but in the absence of that, I think it

                 is inappropriate for us, never having directed

                 people to a specific curriculum, to do it in

                 this instance.

                            I vote in favor of the amendment,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman,

                 on the amendment.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    On the

                 amendment, first I want to thank Senator







                                                          5089



                 Maziarz and Senator Schneiderman for bringing

                 my attention to Eddie Eagle.  It was a name

                 that I wasn't familiar with before.

                            It is a friendly amendment, Senator

                 Maziarz.  There is an anomaly in the bill that

                 has only 22 sentences and has two reference

                 and two quotes from Eddie Eagle.  A bill that

                 calls itself a firearm accident prevention

                 program act, in my opinion should have other

                 references and other quotes by which we can

                 prevent these accidents from occurring.  And

                 for that reason I will favor the friendly

                 amendment.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senate Hevesi on

                 the amendment.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            On the amendment I would just like

                 to point out that Senator Schneiderman's

                 amendment does one thing and one thing only,

                 and I would like to make this clear for

                 everyone who is now about to vote on the

                 amendment. The only think that Senator

                 Schneiderman's amendment does is strike the

                 references to the Eddie Eagle program from







                                                          5090



                 Senator Maziarz bill.

                            So by default, if your voting

                 against this amendment, it means that your

                 positions must be that you want that reference

                 to the Eddie Eagle Program to remain in the

                 bill.  And the only reason you would want that

                 reference to Eddie Eagle to be contained in

                 this bill is because you had some belief that

                 this was the program that should be

                 implemented.  And that being the case, we need

                 to make the clear distinction here, and I am

                 going to speak when I speak on this bill about

                 the Eddie Eagle Program specifically, but

                 anybody who casts a vote against the amendment

                 is voting to contain in this legislation the

                 reference to Eddie Eagle for a purpose that I

                 believe is clearly obvious.

                            I support the amendment.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the amendment.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Party vote in

                 the affirmative, with exception.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Party vote in

                 the negative.







                                                          5091



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will call the roll.  The exceptions, please

                 identify yourself.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 22, nays 37.

                 Party vote with exception.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 defeated.

                            Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, is Senator Schneiderman on the

                 bill, or do I have the floor.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman

                 has the floor, Senator Paterson.

                            Go ahead Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, this is -- first let me say I am

                 sure that it is only with the best of

                 intentions that my colleague, Senator Maziarz

                 has introduced this bill and I regret to say

                 that I am afraid it is flying under false

                 plumage.  This is hardly an -- this is really

                 a vulture in eagle's clothing.  This bill is a

                 legislative ruse in my humble and respected

                 opinion, which seeks to create the impression







                                                          5092



                 that the NRA is placing the highest priority

                 on the protection of youngsters.   The fact of

                 the matter is, if you analyze closely what the

                 bill itself says, it is almost ludicrous on

                 its face.  A child is supposed to follow

                 instructions that say, Stop, don't touch,

                 leave the area, tell an adult.  In a small

                 apartment, how is a child supposed to leave

                 the area?  I'm not clear what the area is.  Is

                 it his father's closet?  Is it his father's

                 bureau drawer?  It happens that a child can

                 uncover a pistol in almost any part of the

                 house, or a shotgun, and I'm not quite sure

                 what it means to leave the area.  That is

                 completely confusing and obfuscated

                 instruction.

                            Furthermore, Madam President, I

                 very much am troubled by the statement which

                 says, on lines 17 through 20 of the bill,

                 "Such firearms safety instructions program may

                 include . . ."  -- let me go back, excuse me.

                 On line 14 of the bill it says, "The teaching

                 of firearm safety such as the Eddie Eagle

                 Program is critical to reducing the number of

                 firearms incidents among children . . ."  And







                                                          5093



                 I underline this, ". .  . during a time in

                 which the media often displays unsafe and

                 irresponsible firearms handling.  Such fire

                 arm safety instruction program may include

                 animated video, and fun filled activity books

                 for use in classrooms, youth programs, summer

                 day camps, et cetera."

                            Fun filled activity books.  Madam

                 President, a gun is a lethal weapon which,

                 time and time again, has taken the lives of

                 people, and I think it is preposterous to

                 assume that a coloring book or some sort of a

                 palative of this sort is going to cope with

                 this program.  This is like taking a baby

                 aspirin to treat a case of severe viral

                 pneumonia.  The virus consists of the fact

                 that what we really need is something to

                 combat the very extreme dangers posed by

                 weapons, and the repeated indications that

                 these weapons can take children's lives.

                            I would remind you that those in

                 favor of this attempt to control guns have had

                 a display each year in which there are

                 hundreds and hundreds of children's shoes

                 brought in from around the nation.  These were







                                                          5094



                 children killed by firearms which were

                 carelessly left to their disposal around their

                 homes.

                            Madam President, clearly the time

                 has come to stop pulling the wool over our own

                 eyes to get plumage on a bill which is not

                 deceptive and to make it clear that that is a

                 Tommy trigger bill or a Danny death bill, but

                 certainly not an Eddie Eagle bill.

                            I strongly oppose it and I think

                 that the vote on this prior to handling a gun

                 lock piece of legislation would be a cruel

                 hoax and one which we should not participate

                 in.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.   Thank you, Madam President.

                            I was somewhat concerned, listening

                 to the exchange between my friend Senator

                 Maziarz and Senator Schneiderman.  It was one

                 point in which Senator Schneiderman asked

                 directly if the Department were to go ahead

                 and just use any other programs that teach gun

                 prevention and left the Eddie Eagle Program

                 out and that was just a decision they made,







                                                          5095



                 would that be satisfactory.  I would have

                 thought that had the legislation been designed

                 to create gun prevention rather than -- or

                 teaching prevention rather than just promoting

                 a program that a particular organization is in

                 favor of that Senator Maziarz would have

                 answered the question, Yes, why not, the

                 agency can direct, this is not legislative

                 intent, we just listed what we considered to

                 be an effective program in the legislation but

                 the agency can choose whatever form in which

                 it chooses to bring gun prevention into the

                 schools.

                            That answer disturbs me because it

                 starts to make me believe that things are not

                 always as they seem.  On its face this would

                 be a very effective program.  Stop, don't

                 touch, leave the area and go and find an

                 adult.  That would seem to be very good advise

                 to give to any young people should they happen

                 to find a gun.  But if you watch the Eddie

                 Eagle video, as Senator Schneiderman said, the

                 whole idea, the whole concept seems to be

                 colored in mirth, which really reinforces what

                 Senator Goodman said, that this is really a







                                                          5096



                 vulture in eagle's clothing.

                            Yes, it is simple enough to say,

                 Stop, don't touch, leave the area, go get an

                 adult.  But that could have applied also to

                 broken dishes.  Children should stop, they

                 should not touch them, they should get away

                 and go get an adult.  What that video fails to

                 really inform the youngster is how serious and

                 dangerous the consequences are of touching a

                 gun.

                            And so in many respects the

                 promotion comes from the publication.  If

                 there is no particular reason to get away from

                 the gun other than that someone said so, like

                 many other things to young people, there is

                 not really knowledge of what the consequences

                 of touching the weapon is.  And that is what

                 the 20/20 video showed.  That the young people

                 were warned but they were so moved by the

                 fascination with guns there is so much

                 interest in guns there is a natural

                 inclination to become interested and involved.

                 My brother and I, all we played were gun games

                 until he shot me many years ago.  But I won't

                 go into that again.







                                                          5097



                            The reality is that there is an

                 unfortunate notion of coalesced dreams.  It is

                 the desire of young people to be interested in

                 guns and the desire of the NRA to sell them.

                 The fact remains that if we were able to prove

                 right here that these programs such as the

                 Eddie Eagle program have no effectiveness,

                 that would not stop the National Rifle

                 Association's desire to promote the program

                 because it would be their intent to say, We

                 are giving good advice.  But in giving good

                 advice they are doing something that has been

                 shown time and time again in different

                 physiological profiles to be a problem with

                 children.  That just by telling children not

                 to do it is raising the subject of what it is.

                 And in this case it is the involvements guns.

                            The fact is that that video showed

                 that 20 students of which only one actually

                 did what the video instructed him to do.  And

                 that had the guns been loaded and not disabled

                 as they had been in that particular video,

                 that there was a possibility that 17 children

                 could have been shot based on the way the guns

                 were pointed through the video.







                                                          5098



                            So I think that this opens up a

                 serious question as to how we should present

                 gun safety programs to kids.  If anything, we

                 need to show the children unfortunately what

                 the dangerous consequences of the use of guns

                 may be.

                            Tragically there was a shooting

                 this weekend in the building in which I live.

                 And there was blood on the floor of the lobby

                 to my building.  My son, who is five years

                 old, seeing that, asked why the person who was

                 shot didn't put band-aids on him.  My son is

                 age five.  To him that was a logical answer as

                 to how to stop bleeding.  Clearly he did not

                 know what the result of gun fire into a human

                 being can actually produce. And the person who

                 was shot in this particular case lived, but a

                 tremendous amount of blood was lost.

                            The fact is that young people, if

                 what they say is right, that seven is truly

                 the age of understanding, the children under

                 seven don't always understand, and a good

                 example of it is that in a recent survey only

                 21 percent of six year olds new what the word

                 area means.  But right here in the legislation







                                                          5099



                 it says leave the area.

                            So, that is not really informing

                 the young person of very much as to what it is

                 or where it is from which they are supposed to

                 leave.

                            In my opinion it is very cursory to

                 use this kind of approach when -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hoffmann,

                 why do you rise?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    I was

                 wondering if Senator Paterson would be willing

                 to yield for a question, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson,

                 would you yield to Senator Hoffmann for a

                 question?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    I wonder if

                 Senator Paterson, as concerned as he is about

                 guns and about a preoccupation by young people

                 on guns has thought about introducing

                 legislation that might direct the filmmakers

                 in Hollywood and the television broadcast

                 outlets to consider changing the way they







                                                          5100



                 depict guns?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    It might not

                 be a bad idea, Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    I wonder,

                 Senator Paterson, if you think that might be a

                 more appropriate way to influence young people

                 of the age of your son, since the information

                 that these young people get is clearly

                 formulated by the media, it is certainly not

                 the NRA that is representing that guns are

                 harmless, it is the media that implies that

                 the use of guns without regard to their

                 consequence is somehow an acceptable thing to

                 do.

                            I wonder if that is something that

                 you and some of your other colleagues who are

                 so opposed to Eddie Eagle have considered

                 doing since it would clearly not be a much

                 better way of reaching the hearts and minds of

                 young children at a highly impressionable age,

                 before the damage has taken place and it is

                 necessary to have a training program like

                 Eddie Eagle to help them understand the

                 consequences that they are clearly not given

                 by watching media unchallenged and unguided by







                                                          5101



                 their parents.

                            Is that something that Senator

                 Paterson has considered doing or contemplated

                 legislatively or considered as a likely

                 amendment to this bill?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Absolutely.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, again, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the bill,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    There are a

                 variety of ways, some of them just pointed out

                 by Senator Hoffmann, that could influence what

                 would be false images in terms of the use of

                 guns or the maneuverability of guns to young

                 people.

                            The one that we are considering in

                 this piece of legislation is actually involved

                 in a media approach, the making of a video,

                 exactly what Senator Hoffmann was turning our

                 attention to.  Using a video to caution young

                 people about the dangers of guns, but a video







                                                          5102



                 that strangely never says that guns are

                 dangerous.

                            And so for exactly that reason I am

                 suggesting that this is not a correct

                 approach, and is many ways similar to the type

                 of media campaign and also the representation

                 in movies and films of what guns actually do.

                            So I think that the real issue here

                 is if we are going to teach gun safety to

                 children we are going to have to understand

                 that children need to in many ways be informed

                 almost in the same way adults would be.  They

                 would have to know what the consequences of

                 playing with a weapon would actually be and to

                 distinguish the difference between a toy and a

                 weapon.  And one of the pieces of legislation

                 that I am working on is to penalize the toy

                 industry for creating facsimile guns that

                 could be, such as was in the case last summer

                 in New York City, confused with an actual

                 weapon which was the reason that a police

                 officer shot a 16 year old boy in Brooklyn,

                 New York, who was holding the toy gun that the

                 police officer thought was a real gun.

                            So when we look at the issue that







                                                          5103



                 is raised in this piece of legislation, I

                 think it is as injurious as it could even be

                 helpful to be presenting information as if we

                 are actually trying to limit or to actually

                 limit access of guns to children and at the

                 same time not pointing out how highly

                 dangerous the weapons actually are.

                            So I don't think that this

                 particular program does that in any way.  If

                 anything what it does is to promote the

                 concept of guns without really allowing for

                 the distinguishing of how serious the

                 consequences of their use are.  And for that

                 reason, Madam President, I can not support the

                 legislation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 I voted for this bill in committee and I want

                 to thank Senator Maziarz for his very well

                 intended bill.  This is a noble pursuit and a

                 righteous endeavor to try and protect our

                 youngsters from the hazards of firearms.







                                                          5104



                            The problem is, although I voted

                 for this bill in committee, the part of the

                 sponsorship or potential sponsorship by the

                 NRA, I didn't realize at the time how

                 troubling that was, and my thought process at

                 the time was, you know what, if the NRA has a

                 program which will protect children and voting

                 no means that we will not have any program

                 then I would rather have a program sponsor by

                 the NRA, even though I was skeptical of the

                 National Rifle Association.

                            Madam President, I will never make

                 that mistake again.  Because subsequent to my

                 yes vote in committee I saw the Eddie Eagle

                 material that is in question here and I can

                 appreciate Senator Maziarz comments repeatedly

                 in his dialogue with Senator Schneiderman in

                 which he states that the DEC is free to adopt

                 any program that they choose, except it is a

                 glaring piece of information that the Eddie

                 Eagle Program is mentioned twice in the

                 legislation, that the entire majority of this

                 institution voted down an amendment to strike

                 the Eddie Eagle reference from the

                 legislation, and that the specific reference







                                                          5105



                 to the instructions to the children is only,

                 by Senator Maziarz acknowledgement is only

                 contained in the Eddie Eagle Program.

                            I think it is abundantly clear that

                 the intention here was that the State should

                 adopt the Eddie Eagle Program as its method of

                 child safety as it pertains to firearms.  It

                 may be debated here, but I think that that is

                 pretty clear.

                            So what is the problem with that,

                 Madam President?  The problem is, whereas my

                 intention was a safety program is better than

                 no safety program, that is simply not the

                 case.  I was wrong.  I found out I was wrong

                 when I read the materials, the cartoons that

                 are here on the Eddie Eagle Program.  And I

                 will just point out for you in the context of

                 a demonstration that not only does the NRA

                 attempt in this brochure, in this cartoon, to

                 instill amongst our youngsters legitimate

                 safety instructions, it also glorifies

                 weapons.  And I will give you a demonstration.

                 This is one of the final pages of the

                 legislation after one of the children in the

                 cartoons has found a shotgun, what appears to







                                                          5106



                 be a shotgun on a table.  A grandmother, and I

                 will show you this in a second, a grandmother

                 picks up the weapon and returns it to the

                 other, I don't know, three or four shotguns or

                 rifles that are situated in her rifle case.

                 That's what this shows.  So instead of seeing

                 a rifle or a shotgun sitting on a table and

                 instilling the message to our children that,

                 oh my God, what is a weapon such as this doing

                 in this environment at all, what this does, it

                 has the grandmother take the rifle or shot

                 gun, I'm not sure which it is, and return that

                 rifle or shotgun to her arsenal in front of

                 the children.  That is what this does.  That's

                 the message we are sending to our children.

                 And that is the danger of the Eddie Eagle

                 Program.  On the one hand it does attempt in

                 some way to provide our kids with some

                 protection to give them instruction.  And we

                 desperately need that protection.  But on the

                 other hand, and I should have realized this

                 because the raison detre of the NRA is to

                 insure that we never have any restrictions on

                 weaponry of any sort and to promote weapons,

                 even though the NRA will tell you that they







                                                          5107



                 intend to promote them in a safe fashion.

                            But it is clear here from this

                 literature, and Senator Schneiderman

                 articulated for us earlier the genesis of

                 Eddie Eagle.  It was a mechanism to block gun

                 restrictions as that movement was germinating

                 in Florida.  That is the purpose here.  This

                 is very, very potentially harmful to our

                 children.  I was shocked when I saw this and I

                 regretted very much that I had cast a vote in

                 committee without having seen all of the

                 evidence.  And, Madam President, now that I

                 see it I would implore everyone to vote no on

                 this bill and I am very skeptical that that

                 will happen because when we had the amendment

                 before us that would have stricken the Eddie

                 Eagle provisions, when that happened, everyone

                 on the other side of the aisle voted no, which

                 to me says they want that provision in there,

                 that this is the program that the DEC should

                 adopt for our kids.  Very troubling, Madam

                 President.  This is not the way to go about

                 it.  So I mean this.  I have the highest

                 respect for Senator Maziarz.  I believe what

                 he is trying to do here is well intentioned,







                                                          5108



                 although it is troubling that when asked the

                 question by Senator Schneiderman would it be

                 acceptable to him if the DEC subsequent to his

                 piece of legislation being passed chose to

                 adopt a program other than the Eddie Eagle

                 Program we didn't hear an answer in the

                 affirmative.

                            I think that says it all, Madam

                 President.   I am very concerned about what

                 would happen should this legislation become

                 the law of the land, and as a result I vote in

                 the negative and urge my colleagues to do the

                 same.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President, on the bill.

                            I appreciate Senator Maziarz

                 extended courtesy in allowing me to ask some

                 questions on this.  This is something I feel

                 very strongly about.  I had never heard of

                 Eddie Eagle when this came up in the

                 Environmental Conservation Committee, and

                 since I had never seen the materials I didn't

                 vote yes, but I voted without recommendation.







                                                          5109



                 I, like Senator Hevesi, have had an

                 opportunity to not just to review the

                 materials, but to learn a little bit about the

                 history of Eddie Eagle and I think that this

                 is a bill that really must be defeated, and I

                 have a six year old and she goes over to play

                 dates at her friends houses and I do not know

                 if her friends parents have guns there or not,

                 but what I have learned about in the last

                 month on the subject of children with guns and

                 specifically on the subject of the NRA's

                 efforts regarding children with guns, I urge

                 all of you that this is something we have to

                 address and that voting yes on this bill will

                 not only be ineffective, it is not just an

                 aspirin for a serious disease as Senator

                 Goodman suggested.  I think it is more akin to

                 taking lye if you have a serious disease.  It

                 causes affirmative harm.

                            First of all, I think that as

                 demonstrated by the 20/20 video, which was

                 being shown today in the Legislative Office

                 Building, there is a real question as to

                 whether this program stops kids from touching

                 guns.  As a parent of a six year old I can







                                                          5110



                 look at the materials and tell you why that is

                 true.  What happens in all of the Eddie Eagle

                 material is that kids find, they are looking

                 around, they are playing, they find a gun.  It

                 is clearly the coolest object in the home.

                 Then as soon as you find a gun this amazing

                 bird flies down and talks to you.  He never

                 says guns kill people, guns hurt people, guns

                 injure people.  There is no indication of the

                 massive injury caused in a country where ten

                 children are killed or injured every day by a

                 gun.  That is not mentioned here.

                            And then as Senator Hevesi pointed

                 out at the end, the grown-up shows that the

                 guns are, in fact, treasured possessions of

                 the adults.  They are to be -- they are

                 cherished possessions of adults.

                            I think that the program doesn't

                 work.  The program doesn't work for a very

                 simple reason.  The NRA, because of its

                 mission, can not teach kids about the dangers

                 of guns because the NRA can not talk about gun

                 danger and gun violence and the horrible

                 tragedies that occur because of the

                 availability of guns in our society.







                                                          5111



                            The second problem I have with this

                 is not just that it is a program that does not

                 work well, it is a program that is used for

                 bad purposes.  It is not -- Eddie Eagle is not

                 a program about teaching kids for gun safety.

                 As I pointed out earlier, the Eddie Eagle

                 Program was developed in Florida in 1988 when

                 there was a big push on to have child access

                 prevention laws enacted.  The Eddie Eagle

                 Program has been repeatedly used in states

                 around the country and in Congress to block

                 trigger guards and child access prevention

                 laws.  It is a campaign that has its origin in

                 an effort to make guns available and it is

                 used to this day in an effort to make guns

                 available.

                            And I read a quote from some -- the

                 Safe Kids Coalition, the founding member of

                 the Safe Kids Coalition in Indiana where Eddie

                 Eagle was used to defeat a CAP bill, a child

                 access prevention bill.  Quote, The Eddie

                 Eagle amendment was used as a political tool

                 to prevent debate of the CAP bill from

                 occurring.  The original CAP bill would have

                 replaced the responsibility for safe storage







                                                          5112



                 of handguns on the adult owner.  The NRA

                 backed amendment relieved the owner of the

                 obligation to store the handguns by instead

                 mandating Eddie Eagle classes for Indiana

                 school children.

                            So lets not pretend that the Eddie

                 Eagle Program is just something developed by a

                 bunch of well meaning educations.  Its purpose

                 is to prevent gun control laws.  Its purpose

                 is to continue the unbelievable situation in

                 our country, where as I pointed out, more than

                 ten kids are injured or killed every day,

                 where 30 percent of families with children,

                 according to a 1992 study, probably more now,

                 keep loaded guns in the home, where according

                 to a Johns Hopkins study when they questioned

                 parents who keep guns, 59 percent of them

                 admitted they don't keep them locked away from

                 the children, and I suspect that there are

                 some who didn't admit it.  And as you can see

                 again from the 20/20 video, which I have a

                 copy of and I commend to you and Senator

                 Maziarz and I perhaps will have a screening of

                 it for people later, the interviews with the

                 parents are very revealing in that video.







                                                          5113



                            We have a problem of handguns in

                 unsafe places.  Children using handguns,

                 children being injured.  The NRA curriculum

                 does not help solve that problem.  The NRA

                 curriculum is designed to prevent gun control

                 laws.

                            The second purpose, and to me even

                 a more offensive purpose for the Eddie Eagle

                 Program is revealed by NRA posters and

                 advertisements for gun shows, which say to

                 children, get your parents to bring you, come

                 to the gun show and meet Eddie Eagle.  This is

                 not just a situation in which the National

                 Rifle Association is content with the current

                 generation of gun owners.  They are trying to

                 recruit the next generation of gun owners and

                 Eddie Eagle is used as a promotional device so

                 that once kids -- we are now in a situation

                 where in your elementary school in New York

                 State you may introduce Eddie Eagle to

                 children who are then encouraged to come and

                 get involved in owning guns by the same

                 cartoon character, owned, copyrighted and

                 owned by the National Rifle Association

                 Foundation and that is something that the







                                                          5114



                 State of New York should in no way be a part

                 of.

                            I read to you from an article about

                 the industry -- the NRA endowments.  This was

                 published in Fishing and Hunting News in

                 February of 1997.  "You always have to bring

                 young people into anything.  New blood really

                 helps."  This is a quote.  "The NRA is plowing

                 new ground for this industry."  And the

                 article was called, "Industries NRA Endowments

                 Equals Foundation for the Future."

                            NRA endowments are what finance the

                 Eddie Eagle Program.  So we are talking about

                 a progress that doesn't work.  We are talking

                 about a program that can't work because the

                 NRA will never teach about gun danger.  We are

                 talking about a program that is used, we know

                 from its history, to block gun control laws.

                 And we are talking a program that is also used

                 to encourage the next generation of gun users.

                 They use the same cartoon character.  We are

                 authorizing the State of New York to put into

                 our classrooms to lure kids into gun

                 ownership.

                            And for all those reasons I would







                                                          5115



                 suggest that a vote in favor of this bill is

                 not a vote in favor of gun safety, it is a

                 vote in favor of the NRA.  It does not talk

                 about the danger of guns, their violent

                 nature.  The program is to keep guns remaining

                 unlocked and unprotected from our children.

                            I, you know, appreciate the

                 opportunity for an education, which this bill

                 has provided me.  I also want to point out

                 that there are other gun safety curricula that

                 are in use in schools in this State and

                 Senator Maziarz mentioned the Star Program,

                 which is used in dozens of schools I know just

                 in New York City.  There are better programs.

                 There are better ways to address the problem.

                 This bill, we have heard references to various

                 more offensive birds than that eagles, whether

                 you called it vulture or whatever, it is

                 absolutely clear that this bill is not

                 accomplishing the stated goals and I urge

                 everyone who is serious about preventing

                 children from being harmed by guns to vote no.

                 Lets work on a serious gun safety package that

                 protects children from guns and doesn't result

                 in what I am afraid will be serious, serious







                                                          5116



                 unintended harm should Eddie Eagle take flight

                 in the schools of New York State.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I listened with interest to the

                 characterizations of firearms by my colleague,

                 Senator Hevesi, as weapons.  And I listened to

                 the characterization of a gun being placed in

                 a gun cabinet.  Those are typically locked gun

                 cabinets.  That is the appropriate place to

                 keep a firearm.

                            Those of us who are familiar with

                 firearms general refer to them as firearms and

                 recognize they have many, many applications,

                 including sporting usage.  Sometimes they are

                 collected for their historical or artistic

                 quality, belive it or not.  They have a great

                 appeal as objects of beauty because they are

                 an example of American craftsmanship, and

                 those of us in upstate districts even

                 represent some wonderful firearm manufacturers

                 in this State and we are very proud of them

                 and the reputation they have created for

                 themselves.







                                                          5117



                            The sports that are associated with

                 firearms are something of which many of us can

                 be proud.  The Department of Environmental

                 Conservation runs a number of hunter safety

                 courses, and I would just take a moment to

                 note that we were the first state, we can be

                 very proud of this fact, to implement and

                 require a hunter safety course as a

                 requirement to hunting in New York State.

                 That was back in the 1940.  Today it is the

                 model for the national hunter education

                 activities.

                            So it is not surprising that we

                 also are on the cutting edge when it comes to

                 a program like Eddie Eagle.

                            The Eddie Eagle program follows a

                 time honored tradition of reaching young

                 people with images with which they find a

                 certain sense of familiarity.  For a small

                 child it is much more comfortable to see a

                 cartoon character or a large friendly animal

                 to convey a message than it is an adult figure

                 or something totally foreign.  This is used in

                 common educational activities going pack to

                 Smoky the Bear, only you can prevent forest







                                                          5118



                 fires.  Children respond to that. And they

                 know to stay away from lit matches and they

                 understand the importance of protecting the

                 forest.

                            There is a safety program that is

                 operated to teach children what to in the

                 event of a fire.  There is a large dog that

                 goes out on display.  We have it at the State

                 Fairgrounds every year in a big arson

                 prevention project, and the message again to

                 small children is through a large cuddly

                 creature with somewhat cartoon

                 characteristics.  This dog teaches these

                 children, stop, drop and roll if you should

                 ever become caught on fire.

                            So the Eddie Eagle Program,

                 contrary to what some of the detractors have

                 stated, is a logical, well thought out use of

                 a pre-determined educational component in

                 their lives already to give them a sense of

                 trust.  This Eddie Eagle character tells them

                 something important and the word danger is

                 clearly stated and reinforced.  There is no

                 need to go into further details.  It is

                 designed for an age group that needs to focus







                                                          5119



                 on danger first and foremost.  The fine points

                 of who should or should not have a gun in a

                 civilized society is really not an appropriate

                 message to be giving a five or six year old

                 child.  That is something that can be debated

                 by adults in this chamber but lets really

                 focus on the issue at hand here.  Do we care

                 about educating young people about the dangers

                 of firearms left unattended?  Yes, of course

                 we do.  Is this an effective way of doing it?

                 It most certainly is.  And what are the

                 statistics that everybody is talking about

                 here?

                            I find it very interesting. I'm not

                 sure where the statistics all came from.  Most

                 of them were not cited, but if there were a

                 number of injuries caused by firearms even on

                 a daily basis in this country, they pale in

                 comparison to the injuries caused by many,

                 many other factors in this country of ours.

                 Every year we have motor vehicle accidents.

                 In 1996, I will just quote, motor vehicle

                 accidents, 43,649; falls, 14,986; poisonings,

                 9,510; fires, 3741; drownings, 3488; choking,

                 3206; medical mistakes, 2,919.  Compared to







                                                          5120



                 firearms accidents, 1,134.  Which by the way

                 was an all time low in 1996, in part due to

                 the fact that Eddie Eagle has now been

                 introduced and is in place in many states with

                 great effectiveness.

                            I don't hear my colleagues talking

                 about outlawing motor vehicles, stairs, any

                 kind of material which could lead one to be

                 poisoned, anything that might be an implement

                 that could cause a fire, all bodies of water

                 which lead to drowning, anything that could be

                 ingested which might lead to choking, or

                 doctors who clearly are responsible for some

                 of the medical mistakes.

                            All of these are bigger safety

                 risks to children, but the NRA has become a

                 convenient target for anybody who wants to

                 make some noise and talk about child safety in

                 this country.  It polarizes people.  It allows

                 people to speak with little or no knowledge of

                 the subject at hand, as clearly demonstrated

                 by people who repeatedly speak about firearms

                 only as weapons.

                            The clear image that they would

                 like us to have here is that anybody who wants







                                                          5121



                 to have a firearms is probably going to go out

                 and rob a bank as their next move or hold up a

                 crack dealer and run wanton through a super

                 market or a post office.

                            Many of my constituents find that

                 characterization offensive and they are

                 troubled when they pick up a newspaper as they

                 will tomorrow and read that certain members of

                 this chamber from New York City said that they

                 do not know what they are doing when they talk

                 about firearms with their young children, or

                 that they are not to be trusted with firearms

                 in their own homes because they have young

                 children.

                            I believe that the Eddie Eagle

                 Program is a perfectly appropriate one.  I

                 think that we should be putting our attention

                 into other areas.  I think that the people of

                 this state have heard enough of the rhetoric

                 about who should and should not have a fire

                 arm or have the right to have a firearm.  Let

                 us allow the DEC to make the kind of educated

                 decision that it has in the past about safety

                 programs that has put this Department of

                 Environmental Conservation squarely in the







                                                          5122



                 forefront as one of the most enlightened in

                 the United States.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Madam

                 President, it does seem like mostly the talk

                 has been against the NRA, against the Eddie

                 Eagle Program, perhaps without a lot of

                 knowledge of what the program is about.  I

                 didn't hear much about how to educate these

                 children to avoid guns and avoid these

                 problems.  Mostly it seemed to be an attack on

                 the NRA, and probably an attempt to stigmatize

                 everyone on this side of the room who might

                 support an NRA program.  Totally inappropriate

                 I would say for conduct in this chamber.  The

                 NRA doesn't need me to defend it, but it has

                 been the leading proponent of marksmanship

                 training in this country for a hundred years

                 and certainly that has been very valuable to

                 this nation in war and in peace.

                            They have defended the second

                 amendment, which some people don't think is

                 important and everyone thinks the first

                 amendment is very important because the media







                                                          5123



                 can write anything they want, true or false,

                 or draw any improper characterization and you

                 have to put up with it because the media is

                 free to do that.  On the other hand, if we

                 didn't have the second amendment I'm afraid a

                 lot of our other rights in the Bill of Rights

                 wouldn't exist today.

                            So I don't think we should attack

                 the NRA for the stand they have taken to

                 defend traditional American values for many,

                 many years.  It is kind of interesting to hear

                 that Eddie Eagle is such a bad program when I

                 have three sheets of paper which I happened to

                 acquire just recently commemorating the Eddie

                 Eagle Program from 30 different states,

                 including, and you might be surprised because

                 we're New York, we're the Empire State, we

                 know everything and all the bumpkins around

                 us, they don't know very much, but those

                 bumpkins around us in the states of Vermont,

                 Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey,

                 Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Ohio have all

                 praised the Eddie Eagle Program.  So how come

                 they're so dumb and we're so smart and we

                 think it is bad and they don't know enough to







                                                          5124



                 know a bad program when they see one.

                            The fact is that the other side of

                 the aisle is wrong on this issue and the rest

                 of the nation, the rest of the states in this

                 nation and school districts, governors who

                 propose, who praised this program, they are

                 the ones who are right.  And I think it was

                 very proper to bring this bill up and I think,

                 yes, the Eddie Eagle is a proven and effective

                 program.  We want to defend, protect our

                 children against gun accidents and certainly

                 this is the most effective program which has

                 been demonstrated to do that.  And as a matter

                 of fact, where the accidents happen are in

                 homes, and I know it was expressed that you

                 should have guns in your house in a gun

                 closet, but the fact is that the homes where

                 those guns exist, where the parents go hunting

                 or target shooting and the children go with

                 them, they are the safest.  They never take a

                 gun and do anything wrong.  With most cases

                 children are not familiar with guns and get

                 one on a thrill or get one to do a crime or

                 whatever it is, they are the ones where the

                 accidents happen. But in the responsible gun







                                                          5125



                 owners homes these accidents happen very

                 infrequently.  Just thought you would like to

                 know a little bit of the background and my

                 opinion on this amendment and of course my

                 great support for the Eddie Eagle program and

                 for this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:   Senator

                 Volker.  I'm sorry, Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    For the

                 purposes of Senator Skelos, Senator Velella

                 and Senator Johnson voting, can I ask that you

                 read the last section and call the roll call,

                 please?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam







                                                          5126



                 President, I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MCGEE:    Senator

                 Nanula.

                            SENATOR NANULA:    No.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, withdraw the roll call, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Withdraw

                 the roll call, please.

                            Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 this is kind of a fascinating discussion in a

                 way.  If this bill, and I will be the first to

                 tell you, if this bill was passed about a

                 month and a half ago or a month ago it would

                 have passed, it probably would have had four

                 or five votes against it.

                            This bill passed the Assembly

                 several months ago 145 to nothing.  Oh, 150 to

                 nothing.  I'm sorry.  Thank you.  It was 150







                                                          5127



                 to nothing.  It came out of committee with one

                 dissenting vote.

                            This is a program that has been

                 acclaimed all over the country except in

                 certain places where certain anti-gun groups

                 have said, well, you know, this is just some

                 sort of political thing because it works so

                 well.  Generally speaking it has worked quite

                 well, and that is why Janet Reno, an avowed

                 NRA person who is really strong on the NRA as

                 we know, said this is a fine program.  The

                 truth is, lets not kid ourselves.  The truth

                 is, what this is about, this is about the fact

                 that we had a couple of terrible tragedies.

                            The tragedy, by the way, at

                 Columbine that could have been a heck of a lot

                 of worse because there were bombs all over

                 that building, and as I have been told, some

                 of those were blown up, but we haven't known

                 about it yet.  But our concern of course is

                 strictly with weapons and I guess in a way I

                 understand that because the media has had this

                 frenzy over guns for a long time.  That is why

                 we need a program like this.

                            I mean, we used to have in upstate







                                                          5128



                 New York in particular, not in New York City

                 because New York City has been, you know,

                 known for all our purity in weapons.  They

                 have done such a good job in making sure that

                 we keep guns out of the hands of everybody.

                 Oh yeah, well that's why people are dying all

                 over the place or did in previous years and

                 there were very few programs where there were

                 a lot of school programs upstate that frankly

                 went out because of fiscal reasons and things

                 of that nature.

                            Handgun control, by the way, until

                 just recently didn't really generally oppose

                 this program a great deal, they just didn't

                 like it because NRA had its name someplace on

                 it.  What the heck does Handgun Control, by

                 the way, know about guns?  They really know

                 very little except they just don't like them

                 and we understand that.

                            The point is, what you want is, if

                 you are going to have a program that deals

                 with gun safety, you should have someone that

                 at least knows something about it, and that's

                 where the Eddie Eagle Program came from.  It

                 is not designed to promote guns.  And by the







                                                          5129



                 way, you showed a cartoon from the Eddie Eagle

                 Program.  There is all sorts of material that

                 has been used across the country in the Eddie

                 Eagle books.

                            Now, nobody is saying that this is

                 a perfect proposal.  In fact, one of the

                 reasons it was delayed, and I will tell you a

                 little story about this bill, I know a little

                 bit about it, was that there were some people

                 with the NRA who didn't like it because they

                 didn't think it was strong enough in making it

                 clear that you should use the Eddie Eagle

                 Program.  And I will tell you that because I

                 happen to know it is a fact.

                            What we were trying to do here,

                 what Senator Maziarz was trying to do here,

                 was to develop a good program, and Eddie Eagle

                 is reputed to be one of the best in the

                 country and you can say it is not, but it is.

                 Not just by Janet Reno, but by all sorts of

                 other people.

                            The point is, if it wasn't for the

                 frenzy that is going on right now this would

                 skid through this place without any problem.

                 The truth though is, and the thing that







                                                          5130



                 bothers me about this is that this is a gun

                 safety program and it is a program that we

                 should pass.  It is a program that is the

                 right thing to do.

                            Now, you, you can talk about, you

                 know, gun control and all that other stuff if

                 you want to.  You can say what you want.  All

                 the law enforcement agencies, by the way, have

                 said this is a great idea.  I just think that

                 this is another example of the problem we have

                 in this country right now that we jump from

                 one media area to another.

                            It seems to me that a program such

                 as this, and no one is saying that this is a

                 perfect idea, but we are not mandating it.

                 And your school districts in New York City,

                 presumably because of the proclivities that

                 have probably will never utilize it

                 unfortunately, which they should by the way

                 because its value in New York City, it would

                 be good to use this more than any other

                 places, but it's doubtful that they will ever

                 use it, but no one says they have to.  We are

                 saying here that this is a program that

                 generally speaking has proved itself.  Nobody







                                                          5131



                 is saying it is perfect.  Nobody is saying

                 that there aren't some problems with it.  And

                 20/20, that is notorious for zeroing in on

                 this stuff and its a little questionable by

                 the way as to how this whole thing happened,

                 but what we are saying, I think what Senator

                 Maziarz is saying, that this is a program that

                 deals with weapons in a way in which you can

                 teach kids safety, save kids lives and teach

                 them to respect guns as they should for what

                 they are.  And I think Senator Maziarz should

                 be commended for sponsoring this bill and

                 having the courage to move on despite all the

                 frenzy in some parts of the after media that

                 there is.

                            So I think that we should stop for

                 a second and think about what we are doing

                 here because, oh yes, there may be some people

                 that will say, well, you know, this is just

                 another one of those political bills.  It is

                 not a political bill.  It is a real bill.  It

                 is a bill that says that we are saying in this

                 Legislature that we want fire arms safety and

                 I think this is the kind of bill that we

                 should pass.







                                                          5132



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            After all is said and done, what we

                 are dealing with, if I can repeat some of the

                 language because it because it bears

                 repeating, this is gun safety program.  This

                 is a firearm safety program for small

                 children.  This bill passed the Assembly

                 unanimously, unanimously.  Passed the other

                 house.  Hardly a bastion of conservatism and

                 NRA support, but this bill passed unanimously

                 in the other chamber.

                            The message, stop, don't touch,

                 leave the area, go get an adult, this is a

                 terrible message?  This is a bad thing to tell

                 kids?  Kids shouldn't stop?  They should pick

                 up the gun?  We want them to do that?  We

                 don't want them to get an adult?  We don't

                 want them to walk away and leave the gun

                 alone?  We want them to touch it?

                            The message seems to be a good one.

                 Seems to be a logical one.  There is nothing

                 wrong with the message that is being taught.







                                                          5133



                 What we are trying to do is kill the messenger

                 because we don't like the message that they

                 are giving.  There are a lot of messengers out

                 there that we don't necessarily agree with all

                 of the time.  If we killed them all we

                 wouldn't have any messengers out there.

                            The key thing here is we have a

                 piece of legislation, and Senator Maziarz is

                 to be congratulated for bringing it forward,

                 that promotes safety in schools, which

                 promotes safety for children when it deals

                 with guns.  Are we forcing the school

                 districts to do anything?  Absolutely not.  We

                 are not forcing them to do a single thing.  We

                 are giving them an option.  It is an opt in

                 program.  The DEC, in conjunction with the

                 State Education Department can develop a

                 program.

                            We complained about Eddie Eagle.

                 Senator Johnson raised the point before, if

                 you look at some of the states, Alabama,

                 Alaska, California, Delaware, Florida under

                 Lawton Childs by the say, Georgia,

                 Pennsylvania, Idaho, all -- Indiana, Iowa,

                 Kansas, Kentucky, Vermont, Mississippi,







                                                          5134



                 Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, Christie Todd

                 Whitman of New Jersey, New Mexico, North

                 Carolina, Ohio, I mean, Pennsylvania, go on

                 and on and on.  There are three pages of

                 states here, each on of which is commemorating

                 or commending the Eddie Eagle Program as a

                 special program going back to 1994, earlier

                 times.  This is not a brand new program that

                 is only just started.  The program has been

                 out there.

                            Is there a situation where teaching

                 a group of kids might not have worked out the

                 way we should have like it?  Well perhaps

                 there is.  Gee, I'm shocked to hear that there

                 is good teaching and bad teaching.  Sometimes

                 it works and sometimes it doesn't.

                            We also heard a statement from

                 Senator Maziarz where you had a teaching

                 experience where you had a program where it

                 worked, where it did the thing it was supposed

                 to do.

                            This is an educational program to

                 teach children that guns are dangerous, to

                 carefully deal with them, don't handle them in

                 an irresponsible manner and seek an adult.







                                                          5135



                 Don't play with this firearm because fire arms

                 are dangerous.

                            Should the blanks be filled in by

                 the adult who is teaching the program?

                 Absolutely, because every word that we would

                 like to hear is not mentioned in a lesson

                 plan, which is basically what this program is,

                 I have some expertise in developing lesson

                 plans.  I would be happy to share that with

                 some of my colleagues.  You don't put down

                 every word.  It is a shorthand format.  It is

                 expected that the understands that guns are

                 dangerous and that firearms are to be handled

                 with care, and they should not be placed in

                 the hands of small children.

                            When are we going to stop getting

                 off this label kick and get on to something

                 that is real.  You have got a gun safety

                 program here.  Isn't it about time we said

                 yes, we want to promote gun safety.  We want

                 to promote that especially with our small

                 children.

                            I went before a PTA group in my

                 district.  My district is not exactly the most

                 conservative that you might find.  The issue







                                                          5136



                 of Columbine was raised and how are we going

                 to protect our children, Senator.  You know

                 what happened?  The person who raised this

                 said, shouldn't we ban all guns.  We should

                 just ban all guns was the comment.

                            And before I could say anything the

                 people in the room, one after another got up

                 and said, you know, that's not right.  My

                 husband is a hunter.  My wife likes to shoot

                 targets.  My neighbors use guns.  They care

                 for them.  They treat them carefully.  They

                 train their children and they train mine.  One

                 after another of the women and the people and

                 the men in that room, the PTA members, rose up

                 and said basically we don't want that Second

                 Amendment right banned.  We don't want to take

                 it away.  But we do think a good safety

                 program should be implemented and kids should

                 be taught the dangers of mishandling and

                 abusing firearms.  This program does that.  It

                 is not even mandated program.  We are not

                 mandating Eddie Eagle.  It is just an example

                 of the kind of program we want, and I don't

                 think the DEC is so stupid or the bureaucrats

                 that live there and work there are so dumb







                                                          5137



                 that they can not figure it out.  Shame on you

                 if your trying to sell out people that work

                 there that they wouldn't know that we don't

                 really mean this, that some how they are going

                 to go out and say, gee whiz, we have to do

                 this because it was mentioned a couple times

                 in a bill.  That is silly, it is absolutely

                 silly, and it is disingenuous to do that.

                            This bill should pass.  It is a

                 safety bill.  It does what we all say we want

                 to do; promote gun and firearm safety.  Lets

                 pass this bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I guess I am astounded.  I told

                 John Marchi on my way in that -- I yield the

                 floor back.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, could we read the last section and

                 call the roll call for Senator Stafford,

                 please?







                                                          5138



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.

                            SENATOR MCGEE:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Aye.  Thank

                 you, Senator Dollinger again for your

                 graciousness.  Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MCGEE:    Close

                 the roll.  Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I couldn't help but sit here when

                 Senator Marchi walked by and remind him that

                 this isn't the only time that te phrase NRA

                 and eagle have been united as he and I

                 recalled in our little history lesson, the

                 National Recovery Act was associated with an

                 eagle.  Those of you who may recall, the

                 United States Supreme Court put the kibosh on

                 the eagle of the NRA when it declared the

                 National Recovery Act unconstitutional in

                 1935.







                                                          5139



                            I rise today, Madam President,

                 actually in a quandary because I read Senator

                 Maziarz bill as not being a mandate for Eddie

                 Eagle.  It doesn't say that we have to do

                 Eddie Eagle.  It does not say that the only

                 message you would teach kids is to don't

                 touch, leave the area.  It does not provide an

                 exclusive mandate to school districts anywhere

                 in this state.  But I am intrigued by the

                 debate on this issue, Madam President, and it

                 influences my choice as to how to vote.

                            I heard Senator Hoffmann talk about

                 firearms, and I understand the lingo of fire

                 arms.  Firearms are produced for all kinds of

                 reasons.  The problem is that in the hands of

                 a child it is not a firearm any more.  Too

                 often it becomes a weapon.

                            Those of us who represent

                 communities in which there is an abundance of

                 weapons, and unfortunately, again, Senator

                 Hoffmann, your absolutely correct.  Those

                 weapons, many, many, many, many, if not most

                 responsible gun owners keep them under lock

                 and key, which is a where they belong.  The

                 problem is as Senator Schneiderman quotes the







                                                          5140



                 Johns Hopkins study that says that 59 percent

                 of the people who have weapons in this

                 country, and I would acknowledge that they may

                 not be the responsible gun owners, but 59

                 percent of the people in this country don't

                 keep of firearms under lock and key.

                            So the danger is that too many of

                 these firearms, which have legitimate purposes

                 in the hands of an adult, either protection or

                 hunting or target shooting, can too easily

                 become weapons.  And that is really what this

                 debate is all about.

                            I'm going to vote no, Madam

                 President on this bill, because I believe

                 that, and unfortunately, this will be the only

                 debate that we will have about gun safety this

                 session the trigger locks bill, the child

                 access prevention act which would require

                 trigger locks on weapons, which would go a

                 long way to telling children that they could

                 not use weapons, they couldn't convert a

                 firearm  into a weapon because they would need

                 to be able to break through the trigger lock,

                 we won't be able to debate and pass that bill

                 on this floor.  We won't be able to restrict







                                                          5141



                 access to other weapons like assault weapons,

                 military style assault weapons, which in my

                 judgment, whether they are in the hands of an

                 eight year old or seventeen or a 37 year old,

                 they are dangerous weapons.  We won't have

                 that debate either.

                            I am doing it for one other reason.

                 There was a little boy in Rochester, New York,

                 who is nine years old whose name was Larou

                 Naysmith [phonetic]. He was killed by a weapon

                 wielded by a seven year old friend.  He needs

                 education about weapon.  He needs a program of

                 education.  I won't even deny that he might

                 have benefited from Eddie Eagle.  But it seems

                 to me that we have to do something, more and I

                 would just suggest that this debate about

                 educating our children is critically important

                 but we need to do more.

                            I guess I come back to the old saw

                 that has some continuing pertinence to this

                 debate, that old line about a bird in the hand

                 is worth two in the bush.  In this case the

                 bird in the hand, if it is Eddie Eagle, is not

                 worth the two in the bush, and I would just

                 suggest that in this case we have the wrong







                                                          5142



                 bird.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Schneiderman to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Slow roll

                 call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  I see five

                 standing.

                            The Secretary will call the roll.

                            Ring the bells, please.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senate Breslin.

                            (No response.)







                                                          5143



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Connor.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:  Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.

                            SENATOR GONZALEZ:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Goodman.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.

                            (No response.)







                                                          5144



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson

                 voted in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Kruger.

                            SENATOR KRUGER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Larkin

                 voted in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator







                                                          5145



                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

                 may I explain my vote?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi to

                 explain your vote.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    We have had a

                 brilliant exposition by Senator Maziarz and he

                 cited his references to the material put out

                 by the Attorney General of the United States.

                            Senator Marcellino fleshed it out

                 with the actual experience that goes and what

                 the act specifically aims to do.  We ought to

                 concentrate on the target area.  This is not

                 represented to be the answer to all of the

                 myriad problems that surround this subject on

                 a million different fronts.  And the target is

                 to promote firearm accident prevention for

                 children in prekindergarten through the sixth

                 grade by a program of firearm safety

                 instruction.  These are preschool.  These are

                 pre-high school, not even out of the secondary

                 school yet, being involved in an accident.

                            And this bill was represented in







                                                          5146



                 good faith by a majority member of this house

                 as the main sponsor.  By a majority member of

                 the Assembly.  And I am sure there are a dozen

                 different answer or dozens of different

                 answers to attack this problem on a general

                 basis, but there they passed it by 150 to

                 nothing.  Everybody agreed that when you point

                 to the target, the special target of

                 prevention of accidents and stripping out all

                 of the ancillary material that is important

                 and perhaps we should at some point be

                 addressing in different ways and hopefully in

                 a rational consensus, everyone seems to be in

                 agreement.

                            Now, it would seem that this should

                 appeal to great number of people on both sides

                 of the aisle and I would hope that it is

                 manifest.  It does what it aims to do.  It

                 does not solve problems that are not in the

                 cross hairs of a target.  And then we also

                 have the information given to us that so many

                 other states have followed the same path.  All

                 of these states probably the forum for a

                 conflict of views on the subject.

                            So because it is so aimed so







                                                          5147



                 specifically well and answers that question so

                 well, I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Marchi will be marked in the affirmative.

                            The Secretary will continue the

                 roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Markowitz.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Markowitz to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    Thank you,

                 very much, Madam President.

                            Senator Marchi, it is a delight to

                 hear you compare the Senate to the Assembly.

                 Obviously when you agree with the opinions of

                 the Assembly they are brought in as example

                 and when we disagree with them then the Senate

                 charts their own course, but I understand

                 that.

                            On this particular issue, listen,

                 all of us here have a genuine desire to

                 prevent firearms abuse by young people.  I

                 don't think anyone arguing here today is

                 saying in any manner shape or form that

                 anyone, even you, Senator, feel anything other







                                                          5148



                 than a hundred percent sincerity.  I think the

                 issue is, can we do better.  Other states may

                 have adopted this, but can we do better?  Are

                 there other approaches that we can take to

                 really drive home the point to families that

                 own firearms.

                            Now, I heard a Senator mention

                 before cartoon characters and not all cartoon

                 characters send the right message.  I think we

                 all agree on that. Some of question this

                 characterization that there might be some

                 other aims that are involved with this

                 organization that some of us believe do not

                 have the public good in my mind.  I think that

                 cartoon character by the name of Joe Camel.

                 Certainly that Senator who mentioned that

                 before and others here certainly remember the

                 cartoon character of Joe Camel.  Now certainly

                 we know what the alternative -- the ulterior

                 motive was of that particular company in that

                 particular cartoon.  So lets look at this very

                 carefully.  Lets all agree that there is a

                 real problem with too many of our kids getting

                 hold of guns whether they are from good

                 families or families that have real challenges







                                                          5149



                 within the family units, we have to somehow

                 seek out ways to maximize what we all

                 sincerely belief in this chamber.

                            And so I have no doubt that this is

                 going to pass today.  We know that.  But we

                 also know that there will be another day and

                 perhaps we can bring forward a plan that works

                 far more effectively in achieving what all of

                 us really do want to achieve, and, therefore,

                 Senator Maziarz, I'm sorry, I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Markowitz will be recorded in the negative.

                            The clerk will call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Madam

                 President, to explain my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Maziarz, to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    First of all

                 let me say that I accept Senator Markowitz's

                 apology for voting in the negative.

                            Madam President, after this great

                 debate I just wanted to point out a few things

                 that have been mentioned several times that

                 the Assembly passed this same bill







                                                          5150



                 unanimously.  Speaker Silver, who I am sure

                 Senator Schneiderman would agree is very

                 focused and a very intelligent person, very

                 well meaning, voted in favor of this

                 legislation.  Assemblyman Grannis, Gottfried,

                 Sullivan, et cetera. I am sure, in fact I know

                 that Senator Schneiderman's representative in

                 the New York State Assembly, and I don't know

                 who that is, voted in favor of this

                 legislation.

                            Senator Paterson's representative

                 in the New York State Assembly voted in favor

                 of this legislation.  And I garner from

                 reading the New York Times today that Senator

                 Paterson may be interested in running for

                 another office.  Perhaps he may consider

                 running for the Assembly.

                            Madam President, my learned

                 colleague and good friend Senator Goodman

                 point out about using a cartoon character.  I

                 think Senator Hoffmann very appropriately

                 pointed out that cartoon characters are used

                 all of the time for educational purposes and

                 she pointed out the example of Smoky the Bear.

                 I thought it was an excellent example.







                                                          5151



                            There are, as I believe Senator

                 Dollinger pointed out, other approaches, and

                 Senator Markowitz.  And this bill provides for

                 those other approaches to be used, Madam

                 President.

                            I want to end my part of this

                 debate by reading from an editorial that was

                 in yesterday's Buffalo News in talking about

                 this particular piece of legislation, and it

                 states that, "Antipathy for the gun group,

                 that is the NRA, should not be allowed to get

                 in the way of a sensible bill unanimously

                 passed by the Assembly to offer school

                 districts a gun safety program for elementary

                 school students.  The bill, sponsored by

                 Assemblyman Joseph Robach, Democrat of

                 Rochester, has a simple aim.  Teach kids to

                 stay away from guns and to immediately alter

                 an adult when they stumble across one. It is

                 designed to prevent the tragedies that often

                 result when a kid finds a gun that an adult

                 thought was well hidden.  Robach's bill offers

                 a way to do that.  It is a common sense

                 approach to a societal problem that needn't

                 get bogged down with the politics of bashing







                                                          5152



                 the NRA."

                            I agree with that editorial, Madam

                 President.  I agree with many of the things

                 that were said by my colleagues on both sides

                 of the isle here today, and I vote in the

                 affirmative.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Maziarz will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            The Secretary will call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:   Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    To explain my

                 vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Morahan, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,







                                                          5153



                 Madam President.

                            I heard a lot of statements here

                 today.  Everyone in the chamber is for gun

                 safety.  Everyone in the chamber is out to

                 protect our children.  And yet when an

                 opportunity comes today those two things we

                 have a divided house.

                            Someone suggested that we can do

                 better and I agree we can do better.  But do

                 we wait to do better?  Do we deny these

                 children the opportunity for gun safety until

                 we devise something better?  Or do we start

                 now with the first step.

                            The Joe Camel reference really

                 boggles my mind when you consider the

                 explanation of why that was brought into this

                 debate, as to sell cigarettes, we believe this

                 program is to do what?  Sell guns to

                 kindergarten children?  Children in the sixth

                 grade?  This is not a selling tool.  This is a

                 safety tool.

                            I am really outraged, outraged that

                 this body would be divided on an issue so

                 vital to our children.

                            I have 17 grandchildren, most of







                                                          5154



                 them in every school district in my county.

                 And I want them to have this sort of program.

                 There are no guns in our households.  We are

                 not gun people.  It amazes me that this sort

                 of program is not in the schools already. If

                 you see a grenade, stop.  If you see a knife,

                 stop. If you see a can of lye. It seems to me

                 all the same.  It is safety for kids and we

                 ought to vote in the affirmative.

                            Thank you.  I cast my vote in the

                 affirmative, Madam Chairman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Morahan will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            The Secretary will call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nanula

                 recorded in the negative earlier today.

                            Senator Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    To explain

                 my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator







                                                          5155



                 Oppenheimer to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I hear a

                 lot of people saying that this is a first step

                 and a beginning on the route to safety.

                            I think this is a first step that

                 is just totally inadequate and much too small

                 a response.  We can not seem to get the

                 necessary legislation up on the floor because

                 the NRA doesn't seem to want to have us

                 entertain this legislation.  The legislation

                 that would prevent youngsters from playing

                 with guns, picking up guns, killing each other

                 with guns, is safety locks on guns that adults

                 have the keys to and that no child could get

                 to the gun without the key.  And that is what

                 is needed here, not this first step which I

                 think is a totally inadequate step.

                            We have legislation, which I

                 co-sponsored, which talks about gun locks.  We

                 have legislation which I sponsored which

                 concerns banning assault weapons.  This is

                 what is needed.  This is just too small a

                 step.

                            I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator







                                                          5156



                 Oppenheimer, recorded in the negative.

                            The Secretary will call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Paterson.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Paterson to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I think I'm going to vote no, but I

                 almost changed my mind when it just came to my

                 attention that Eddie Eagle shot Joe Camel.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Thank you

                 for sharing that with us.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    If it had not

                 come from Senator Volker, Madam President, I

                 would have voted for this bill.

                            Madam President, I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Paterson recorded in the negative.

                            The Secretary will call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rosado.

                            SENATOR ROSADO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Saland.







                                                          5157



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Sampson,

                 excused.

                            Senator Santiago.

                            SENATOR SANTIAGO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Schneiderman to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I appreciate the honest concerns of

                 many who have spoken today.  I have had the

                 opportunity to speak about this legislation

                 with Senator Maziarz before the debate and I

                 hope we'll be able to speak of this issue

                 further.  I think though it is really -- we

                 should not be kidding ourselves in what we are

                 doing in voting for this particular bill.

                            School districts can teach gun

                 safety curricula now.  Many school districts

                 do teach gun safety.  The United Federation of

                 Teachers has worked with school districts in

                 New York City to develop a version of the

                 Straight Talk About Risk Program, the Star







                                                          5158



                 Program, which is used in many New York City

                 schools right now.

                            What this bill does is mandates for

                 the first time that the state will be the

                 business of choosing some sort of gun safety

                 materials and distributing them to any school

                 district that requests gun safety materials.

                 And I think with all due respect for my

                 colleagues, when you all voted no on the

                 amendment that would leave this bill the same

                 and strip Eddie Eagle out and then voted for a

                 bill that refers repeatedly to Eddie Eagle, it

                 is very clear, if I was working in the

                 Department of Environmental Conservation, what

                 the legislative intent was.

                            You can't go wrong if you make

                 Eddie Eagle materials available to the school

                 districts around the state, but you might get

                 in trouble if you do something else.

                            I think that is what we are doing.

                 I think that we are putting the curriculum on

                 gun safety in the hands of the NRA.  I'm not

                 someone who never shot.  I'm not someone who

                 never owned a gun.  I have owned guns and, you

                 know, I don't have a gun now and I am glad I







                                                          5159



                 don't.  I think that we would all be better

                 off if those of us who like guns and know how

                 to shoot guns left them at home in the same

                 sense we are better off that if those of us

                 who like to drive fast adhere to the speed

                 limit.

                            I think that the analogy to Joe

                 Camel is right on.  In fact, Senator Markowitz

                 mentioned this on his own, there is a report

                 from the Violence Policy Center that has

                 looked in detail at Eddie Eagle and has that

                 has entitled its report, Joe Camel with

                 feathers.  That is what Eddie Eagle is.  That

                 is what we are voting for today.  I am very

                 disappointed.  I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, there will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Rules Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  There will

                 be an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee

                 in the Majority Conference Room.







                                                          5160



                            The clerk will call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senate Seabrook.

                            SENATOR SEABROOK:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Skelos

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Smith voting in the

                 negative earlier today.

                            Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Stachowski voting in the affirmative earlier

                 today.

                            Senator Stafford voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Stavisky excused.

                            Senator Velella voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.  Senator Volker

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Waldon.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The







                                                          5161



                 Secretary will call the absentees.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Balboni to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, when this bill came to the floor I

                 had several conversations with members in the

                 chamber and I was going to -- I had decided I

                 would listen to the debate and try to make up

                 my mind as the debate developed.  And as so

                 often times happens, arguments are proffered

                 on both sides, and what I have come to realize

                 is this is a very easy issue to get caught up

                 in the hype and the hysteria.  This is an easy

                 issue in which to try to make political

                 points.

                            The truth is, nobody has an answer

                 to violence.  Nobody has the way to cure all

                 of the ills.  To demonize a particular program

                 because of a reference or association with a

                 particular group of people is the worst case

                 of politics.

                            This is a bill about safety.  This

                 is a bill that school districts can decide to

                 accept or choose another program.  And







                                                          5162



                 whatever cause we think may have contributed

                 to Columbine and all of the other incidents,

                 we should not try to stop any particular issue

                 simply because we don't like the people who

                 sponsor part of it.  That is a disservice to

                 the ones we love the most, our families.

                            I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Balboni will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Senator Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The

                 Secretary will continue to call the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senate Libous.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez.

                            (No response.)







                                                          5163



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The

                 Secretary will announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 38, nays 15.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please recognize Senator

                 Balboni, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam

                 President, on a day when we have been so

                 serious in all of our work I thought we would

                 pause just for a light moment.

                            Today is the birthday of a

                 gentleman who truly exemplifies the problems

                 associated with the current lack of pay.  If

                 you take a look at Senator John Bonacic's

                 suit, he can no longer afford lapels.  He

                 turned the ripe age of fifty-something today

                 and I just thought I would mention that for







                                                          5164



                 the benefit of the body.

                            Congratulations, John.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Thank you,

                 Senator Balboni.  Happy birthday to Senator

                 Bonacic.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you take the non-controversial

                 reading of the supplemental number two active

                 list today, starting with Calender Number

                 1321, please?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The clerk

                 will call Calendar Number 1321.

                            Senator Seabrook.

                            SENATOR SEABROOK:    Madam

                 President, with unanimous consent I would like

                 to recorded in the negative on Calendar 413.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Without

                 objection you will be so recorded.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1321, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 34-B,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.







                                                          5165



                            THE SECRETARY:    Sections 4.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1322, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2000-B,

                 an act to amend the Transportation Law and the

                 State Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1323, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print

                 2264, an act directing the commissioner of the

                 Division of Criminal Justice.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the







                                                          5166



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 58, nays

                 one.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1325, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print

                 2928, an act to amend the Public Housing Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1326, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3019-A,







                                                          5167



                 an act authorizing the reopening of the 20

                 year retirement plan to Police Officer Mark J.

                 Thomas.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  There is a

                 home rule at the desk.  Please read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3. This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1327, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3183-A,

                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  There is a

                 home rule ruling at the desk.  Please read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 120 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          5168



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1328, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3490-A,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1329, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 3870-A,

                 an act to amend the General Business Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5169



                 1330, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4166,

                 an act to permit the reopening of the optional

                 20 year retirement plan.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  A home

                 rule is at the desk.  Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Sections 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1331, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4238-B

                 an act authorizing the County of Suffolk to

                 discontinue the use of certain lands.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Home rule

                 is at the desk, read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.   This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.







                                                          5170



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1332, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 4388-B, an act in relation to authorizing

                 Suffolk County to discontinue as park lands.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Home rule

                 is at the desk.  Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Sections 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1334, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4459, an

                 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1335, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4467-A,







                                                          5171



                 an act to amend the Labor Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1336, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print

                 4745-A, an act directing the transfer of

                 certain parcel of real property.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1337, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4771, an

                 act authorizing the transfer of John Roll into

                 the optional 20 year retirement plan.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Home rule







                                                          5172



                 is at the desk.  Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1338, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 7965, substituted earlier

                 today, an act to amend Chapter 884 of the Laws

                 of 1990.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.







                                                          5173



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, can we turn to reports of the

                 standing committees.  I believe there is a

                 committee report at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Reports of

                 standing committees.  There is a report of the

                 Rules Committee at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 664-B, by Senator

                 Goodman, an act to amend Environmental

                 Conservation Law;

                            1048-A,  Senator Padavan, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            1324-A, by Senator Marcellino, an

                 act to amend the Tax Law;

                            1463-A, by Senator Hevesi,  an act

                 to amend a Tax Law;

                            1539, by Senator Farley, an act to

                 amend the Public Health Law;

                            1562, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Highway Law;

                            2731, by Senator Kuhl, an act to







                                                          5174



                 amend the Tax Law;

                            4128, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

                 to amend the Domestic Relations Law;

                            5690, by Senator Maziarz, an act to

                 amend the Town Law and the Public Officers

                 Law;

                            5735-A, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Labor Law;

                            5742-A, by Senator Maltese, an act

                 to amend Chapter 164 of the Laws of 1907;

                            5759, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 permit the sale or lease;

                            5794, by Senator Morahan, an act

                 authorizing the Commissioner of General

                 Services;

                            5837, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 amend the Social Services Law; and

                            5845, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 amend Chapter 906 of the Laws of 1984.

                            All bills ordered direct for third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, I move to accept the report,







                                                          5175



                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  All in

                 favor of accepting the report of the Committee

                 on Rules, say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye".)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Opposed

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The report

                 is accepted.  Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please call up Senate

                 Number 664-B, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1360, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 664-B,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to the poisoning of pigeons.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Goodman, an explanation has been requested.







                                                          5176



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Tonight is a

                 night for aviaries and bird lovers.  We just

                 had a three hour discussion of eagles, and now

                 let us turn to the problem of pigeons.

                            Who asked for an explanation of

                 this?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thanks, Bill.

                 I'm so glad you did.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    One.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    One word?

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    One

                 question.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    One question.

                 Would you like to ask a question, maybe we

                 will save some time.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, would the Senator yield for a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Goodman, will you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    In Rules the







                                                          5177



                 question came up and nobody could answer and

                 maybe you can.  What is 4-amino pyridine?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    It is a

                 chemical called Avitrol, and when you ingest

                 Avitrol you go kookoo and go around in 100,000

                 circles and drop dead.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you,

                 very much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is there any

                 housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Yes, there

                 is, Senator.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,







                                                          5178



                 on behalf of Senator Marchi, I move to amend

                 Senate Bill Number 3620-B, by striking out the

                 amendments made on June 11th and restoring it

                 to its previous Print Number 3620-A.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  So

                 ordered.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you,

                 President.

                            I request that you now call that

                 bill up, Number 3625.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 625, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz,

                 Assembly Print 4736, an act to amend the Town

                 Law and others.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this Assembly bill was substituted for Senator

                 LaValle's bill, Senate Print Number 2657, on

                 May 11th.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  The







                                                          5179



                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 I now move that Assembly Bill Number 4736, be

                 recommitted to the Committee on Rules and that

                 the Senate bill be restored to the order of

                 Third Reading Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    So ordered.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    And I offer the

                 following amendments; on page 22, Calender

                 Number 625, Senate Print Number 2657, and ask

                 that said bill retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Amendments

                 are received.  The bill will retain its place

                 on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, is there anything else at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  We are

                 clean.







                                                          5180



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    There being

                 no further business, I move we adjourn.

                            Madam President, will you recognize

                 Senator Hevesi, please.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    My apologies,

                 Senator Fuschillo.

                            Madam President, I request

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 413.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Without

                 objection.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, there being no further business I

                 move we adjourn until Tuesday, June 15th at

                 11:00 a.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:  On motion,

                 the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday June

                 15th, at 11:00 a.m.

                            (Whereupon, at 7:33 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)