Regular Session - June 16, 1999

                                                              5498





                            NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                                   THE

                            STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               June 16, 1999

                                11:09 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION





                 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          5499



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senate will come to order.

                            I ask the members to take their

                 chairs and everybody to rise and join with me

                 in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the

                 Flag.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    In the

                 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a

                 moment of silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Reading

                 of the Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Tuesday, June 15, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Monday,

                 June 14th, was read and approved.  On motion,

                 Senate adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Hearing

                 no objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.







                                                          5500



                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            The Chair recognizes Senator

                 Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On page 10 I offer the

                 following amendments to Calendar Number 371,

                 Senate Print 1469A, and I ask that Senator

                 Spano's bill will retain its place on the

                 Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

                 Amendments to Calendar Number 371 are received

                 and adopted, and the bill will retain its

                 place on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Skelos, we have one

                 substitution at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please make the

                 substitution.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the substitution.







                                                          5501



                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 38,

                 Senator Johnson moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8164A

                 and substitute it for the identical Third

                 Reading Calendar, 1433.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 believe there are two privileged resolutions

                 at the desk, Resolution 2053 and 2054.  If we

                 could have the titles read and move for their

                 immediate adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the titles to Resolution

                 2053 and 2054.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

                 Legislative Resolution Number 2053, honoring

                 Lieutenant Colonel Robert E. Newman upon the

                 occasion of his retirement upon 18 years of

                 active service with the United States Army and

                 the United States Army National Guard.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.







                                                          5502



                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 resolution is adopted.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

                 Legislative Resolution Number 2054, honoring

                 Officer Colleen Goldston upon the occasion of

                 her designation as the recipient of the John

                 J. Givney Award, May 21, 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 resolution is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up the noncontroversial

                 calendar.







                                                          5503



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the noncontroversial

                 reading of the calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 239, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1918, an

                 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

                 charges.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Santiago, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR SANTIAGO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  To explain my vote.

                            I appreciate that the stores,

                 grocery stores and the retailers, are probably

                 consider -- are losing -- are probably losing

                 an unreasonable loss at this time.  I've

                 explained to Senator Farley that I'm very

                 comfortable with the grocery stores raising

                 their prices, but I think that to raise it







                                                          5504



                 from 50 cents to a dollar is just too much,

                 and for some people an extreme -- an -- it's a

                 burden on probably the people that could

                 afford it least.

                            I would support a raise to 75 cents

                 or a slower incremental raise over a couple of

                 years.  I do support the idea that we have a

                 sliding-fee scale based on the amount of the

                 check.  I think that's an excellent idea.

                 Senator Farley and I support that concept, and

                 we've discussed that in the past.

                            However, as the bill now stands, I

                 must vote against it.  And I hope that there's

                 a compromise legislation, if it passes the

                 Assembly, that we could come to some

                 agreement.

                            But I hope, Senator Farley, you

                 understand that, you know, it's very difficult

                 to vote for this bill as it now reads.  I just

                 think it puts a burden on the population that

                 I represent.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Santiago will be recorded in the negative.

                            Announce the results.







                                                          5505



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 239 are

                 Senators Kuhl, Onorato, and Santiago.  Ayes,

                 37.  Nays, 3.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 435, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3268, an

                 act to authorize the apportionment of state

                 building aid.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There a

                 local fiscal impact note at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 652, by Member of the Assembly Morelle,

                 Assembly Print Number 6317, an act to amend







                                                          5506



                 the General Business Law, in relation to the

                 sale of monuments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 700, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

                 Assembly Print Number 6933A, an act to amend

                 the Lien Law, in relation to liens on molds.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.







                                                          5507



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 772, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4408A, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to the recovery.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 803, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2661A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to benefits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.







                                                          5508



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 866, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 1151, an act to amend the General Obligations

                 Law, in relation to extending.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 896, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg,

                 Assembly Print Number 1269A, an act to amend

                 the Military Law, in relation to date of

                 membership.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5509



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 980, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5084A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 912 of the Laws of

                 1920.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1030, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5348A,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to powers and operations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This







                                                          5510



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 39.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1039, by Member of the Assembly Lafayette,

                 Assembly Print Number 121, an act to amend the

                 Banking Law, in relation to the geographic

                 distribution.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Santiago, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR SANTIAGO:    Yes.

                 Mr. President, this legislation amends the

                 Community Reinvestment Act.  And we all know







                                                          5511



                 that that's the law that requires banks to

                 invest and contribute to the neighborhoods

                 that I represent and neighborhoods that some

                 of my colleagues represent, which is

                 particularly poor neighborhoods.

                            This bill looks to the new

                 millennium.  It updates the Community

                 Reinvestment Act by allowing examiners to

                 consider whether a bank provides computer and

                 electronic banking services evenly, in both

                 terms of geography and economic class.

                            Let me be clear about one point,

                 however.  This law is designed to be a carrot

                 and not a stick.  It does not penalize a bank

                 during its CRA exam for not offering computer

                 banking services if it's not a regular part of

                 their business.  It instead will provide CRA

                 credit to those banks which do offer services

                 and make an effort to promote these services

                 to poor urban and rural communities through

                 measures like advertising and customer

                 training.

                            And finally, let me just thank you,

                 Senator Farley.  Thank you for helping me with

                 this bill and for working so closely with me.







                                                          5512



                 I really appreciate your support during the

                 entire process.  You've always been a pleasure

                 to work with, and I'd like to thank you

                 publicly for that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Santiago will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1055, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 125, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 the composition.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5513



                 1063, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg,

                 Assembly Print Number 7009A, an act to amend

                 the Education Law, in relation to the

                 supervision.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1124, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4337A,

                 an act to authorize the Village of Rockville

                 Centre.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5514



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1174, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5671A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and

                 the Administrative Code of the City of New

                 York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 51.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1294, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8220, an act to amend

                 the Insurance Law, in relation to eligibility.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the







                                                          5515



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1295, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5589, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 courses.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1324, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2425B,

                 an act to amend the Economic Development Law

                 and the Public Authorities Law, in relation -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5516



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1350, by Senator Meier, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1372, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5794 -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The bill will be starred at the

                 request of the sponsor.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1381, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2529A,

                 an act to amend the Navigation Law, in

                 relation to pilotage fees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5517



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1386, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2533, an

                 act to authorize retroactive membership.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1389, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4372,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York, in relation to the

                 establishment.







                                                          5518



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 14.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed, gentlemen.  Do you want a motion to

                 reconsider the vote by which the bill passed

                 the house?

                            The Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1389.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          5519



                 is laid aside.

                            The Secretary will continue to call

                 the noncontroversial calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1412, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2698,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1413, by Senator Velella, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1414, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3605A,

                 an act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation







                                                          5520



                 Law, in relation to increasing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1415, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3796A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to benefits.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The bill will be laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1416, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3971, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law, in relation to off-track

                 betting and simulcasting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the







                                                          5521



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1417, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3994, an

                 act to amend the Public Service Law and the

                 State Administrative Procedure Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1418, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4124A, an







                                                          5522



                 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in

                 relation to liability.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1419, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 43 -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1420, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4457, an

                 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law, in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5523



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1421, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4993,

                 an act to amend the State Finance Law, in

                 relation to requirement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1424, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5207, an

                 act to amend the County Law, in relation to

                 requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.







                                                          5524



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 30 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1425, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5212, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 the minimum remuneration.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1426, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5213, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.







                                                          5525



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1427, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8075, an act to amend

                 the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to

                 requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1428, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5479A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to permitting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This







                                                          5526



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1429, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5587, an

                 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the

                 affixation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect in 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1430, by Senator Lack, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the







                                                          5527



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1432, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8128A, an act to amend

                 the Environmental Conservation Law, in

                 relation to regulations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1433, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8164A, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation Law, in relation to

                 the management.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This







                                                          5528



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1434, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print

                 5713, an act to amend the Executive Law, in

                 relation to eligibility.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1435, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5718A,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to authorizing.







                                                          5529



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Section 2.

                 This act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1436, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5815, an act to amend the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York,

                 in relation to the authorization.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.







                                                          5530



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1437, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5816, an act to amend the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York,

                 in relation to permitting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1438, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5817, an act to provide for

                 pension credit.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5531



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1439, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5834,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

                 relation to office.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1440, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5836, an

                 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation

                 to operation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This







                                                          5532



                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1441, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5848, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to the family loan programs.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1442, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5850, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in







                                                          5533



                 relation to permitting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1443, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5857,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to removing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          5534



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1444, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5880, an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation

                 to providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1445, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5887, an

                 act in relation to creating a demonstration

                 program.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5535



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1446, by Member of the Assembly Tocci,

                 Assembly Print Number 3084A, an act to amend

                 the New York State Veterans Bill of Rights.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1447, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5908, an

                 act to amend the Tax Law and the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This







                                                          5536



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1448, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5909,

                 an act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law, in relation to corporations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1449, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,







                                                          5537



                 Assembly Print Number 8272A, an act to amend

                 the Banking Law, in relation to criteria.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1450, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5920A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law and

                 Chapter 130 of the Laws of 1998.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect July 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          5538



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1451, by Senator lack, Senate Print 5924, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 a guarantee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1452, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8237, an act to amend

                 Chapter 942 of the Laws of 1983.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5539



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1453, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5933 -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1454, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8226, an act to amend

                 the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to

                 removal.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.







                                                          5540



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1455, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5947,

                 an act to amend the General Business Law, the

                 Personal Property Law, the Public Service Law

                 and the State Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect September 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1456, by Assemblyman Canestrari -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1457, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3921,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.







                                                          5541



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1110.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1110.

                            Before the Secretary reads, can we

                 have a little order in the chamber, please.

                 Senator Spano, Senator Padavan, Senator

                 Mendez, Senator Smith.  Staff members, take

                 their seats.  Senator Balboni, take the

                 conversation out of the chamber.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1110, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5328B,







                                                          5542



                 an act to amend Chapter 338 of the Laws of

                 1998.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 is there a message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 on Calendar Number 1110.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the

                 house.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5543



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could go to the controversial calendar,

                 please, starting with Calendar Number 803, by

                 Senator Leibell.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 803, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2661A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to benefits.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, an explanation of Calendar Number 803

                 has been requested.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            This bill intends to provide parole

                 officers who suffer job-related heart disease

                 with the presumption that the heart disease is







                                                          5544



                 job-related.  Specifically, the bill requires

                 that the parole officer successfully pass a

                 physical examination prior to entry into

                 service, and that physical exam did not

                 disclose any evidence of heart disease.

                            Additionally, it provides that it

                 shall be presumptive evidence that a parole

                 officer who suffers from heart disease which

                 results in disability or death incurred the

                 heart disease in the course of their

                 employment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if Senator Leibell would yield for some

                 questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, what

                 would be the way of rebutting a presumption

                 that heart disease was job-related?  In other

                 words, how would you ever know if any physical







                                                          5545



                 ailment, malady or disease was caused through

                 the person's job unless you individually

                 determined the amount of time they were

                 spending overtime, stress, and other excesses?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Well, Senator,

                 before they come into the job, of course, as I

                 noted, you're going to have to successfully

                 pass a physical examination prior to the entry

                 into service.  And that physical exam would

                 disclose if there was in fact any heart

                 disease.

                            As to what circumstances would

                 rebut this, that would be up to a medical

                 professional.  It would be beyond me to say.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Mr. President, if Senator Leibell

                 would yield for another question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Do you

                 continue to yield, Senator Leibell?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          5546



                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So, Senator,

                 if someone comes to the job and they are not

                 suffering from heart disease and it

                 accumulates later, we are making a presumption

                 it was job-related.  How long could the person

                 have been working at the job when the

                 condition would arise?  Could it be as much as

                 20 years?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yeah, it could

                 be.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Mr. President, if Senator Leibell

                 would yield for another question.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So therefore,

                 if we were going to compare this particular

                 employee with anyone else in society within

                 10, 15, 20 years, isn't it possible that

                 anyone else could acquire heart disease just







                                                          5547



                 by the nature of their own age?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    That's why it

                 would be a rebuttable presumption.  That would

                 be for medical professionals to be able to

                 determine that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If Senator Leibell would yield

                 for another question.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, what

                 is the position of the relevant medical

                 conferences or associations on this type of

                 distinction as to how someone acquired

                 something, especially considering the fact

                 that until the ailment presents itself, often

                 the medical profession cannot diagnose a

                 disease prior to its taking effect?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I'm not sure

                 that I completely understand your question.

                 But I think the answer you're looking for is

                 probably still a technical medical answer,







                                                          5548



                 which certainly I would not be equipped to

                 give you.

                            As to what would cause this sort of

                 a disease, as to whether it was related to the

                 specific job, those are things that medical

                 professionals would have to answer.  It's

                 beyond my scope to answer that.  I don't have

                 that expertise.

                            But what we are doing here is we

                 are creating that presumption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            Mr. President, if Senator Leibell

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Therefore,

                 Senator, in order to create the medical

                 presumption, there must be -- we must have

                 evidence already, even though this is not a

                 medical determination, but sheerly just

                 statistics, that individuals in this line of

                 work are more prone to developing heart







                                                          5549



                 disease; is that correct?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I think that is

                 correct, yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if Senator Leibell would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like to know if Senator Leibell can give

                 us any of that information right now.  In

                 other words, what the statistics are for those

                 who would be unfortunate enough to be

                 suffering from heart disease, what the

                 statistics are between the affected, as

                 represented in this bill, and the regular -

                 and the general society.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I certainly

                 would not, Senator, have any information

                 available to me today as to what the

                 statistics would be.

                            I would note, though, this is

                 legislation that's comparable to laws that are







                                                          5550



                 already on the books for police and fire.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Right.  Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            If Senator Leibell would continue

                 to yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, as a

                 preface to my question, what I'm interested in

                 knowing in this particular class that's

                 affected by this particular legislation here,

                 Calendar Number 803, is what the relevance of

                 the statistics would be in order to establish

                 this type of presumption.  In other words,

                 that there's a significant likelihood that a

                 person working in this line of work, as are

                 corrections officers, would be more likely to

                 suffer from heart disease.

                            And so what I just want to know is

                 that the evidence is not just a preponderance,

                 but it is clear that there is a risk that

                 someone takes to their life by working in this







                                                          5551



                 particular endeavor.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    No, as I

                 noted -- and we've discussed this type of bill

                 before.  Throughout this session, we've

                 discussed legislation like this -- that those

                 who serve in police and fire and corrections,

                 and now we're also including parole, have

                 uniquely difficult and professionally very

                 stressful jobs, much more so than the average

                 citizen of this state would confront.

                            Is it likely that -- or is it

                 possible that they could develop heart disease

                 and it could be related to something entirely

                 outside of their job, something genetic,

                 possibly?  And the answer to that is yes.

                 That's why it's a rebuttable presumption.

                            We create the presumption here in

                 this legislation, or we attempt to, as we have

                 in other statutes, because of the difficulty

                 and unique nature of the work.  We've

                 presented that before to this legislative body

                 on numerous occasions for others, to indicate

                 that those who deal with the criminal justice

                 system, those who deal with emergency services

                 such as fire, face unique health problems.







                                                          5552



                 And heart disease is certainly at the

                 forefront.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If Senator Leibell would

                 continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Interestingly

                 enough, Senator Leibell, I read one of those

                 reports that actually the most stressful

                 career, based on the effects on the

                 individuals, is actually in the print media

                 and also in the radio and television media.

                 Which I felt was ironic, since the individuals

                 who work in that area often, I thought, caused

                 stress to other professions, that they would

                 be the ones that suffered the most.

                            The question that I have for you

                 is -

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I'll be happy

                 to look at legislation in that area, Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    (Laughing.)

                 No, that's okay, Senator, you don't really

                 have to do that.







                                                          5553



                            The question that I have for you is

                 what I'm really just looking for is that I

                 recognize that we have established this

                 legislation over a period of time and that

                 we've established it with other groups.  And

                 so because of that, I was wondering why we

                 hadn't already done this.

                            And so to determine whether or not

                 we should do it now, I was just trying to

                 learn what statistic or information it was

                 that compelled you to bring this legislation

                 before us now.  Because clearly, if it is the

                 case, we would want to do it.  But what I

                 wanted to elicit from you was what the

                 catalyst was, since we hadn't done it

                 previously.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    My

                 understanding is this is not new legislation,

                 although it was not passed here previously.

                 It was passed in the Assembly last year.  And

                 apparently at that time there was -- there's

                 consistently been evidence that's been made

                 available concerning those who work in the

                 criminal justice system, the stressful nature

                 of their work.







                                                          5554



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If the Senator would be

                 willing to yield.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I think the

                 reason that I raised it, Senator, is because

                 police officers, it's -- even without the

                 statistics, it's almost a fait accompli.  If

                 you become a police officer, you're walking

                 around in conditions every day where your own

                 life is at risk.  And we just lost a police

                 officer in New York City about a month ago.

                            Firefighters, the same thing.  Two

                 weeks ago on Friday, we lost a firefighter in

                 New York City.  Firefighters, just by the

                 nature of the work that they do, are

                 automatically put in that position.

                            But when we come to parole

                 officers, I'm not going to say that I have an

                 idea of what the stresses are in that

                 particular profession.  I'm just saying that







                                                          5555



                 it doesn't jump out at me as something that we

                 immediately should do, not knowing the full -

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Senator, as you

                 say, when you take a look at police and fire,

                 to you that's a fait accompli.  Similarly to

                 myself, it would seem self-evident with

                 respect to this.

                            And just as we can search for

                 statistics to bear that out with police and

                 fire, we can similarly search for statistics

                 here.  And possibly my threshold in the

                 criminal justice system may be somewhat

                 different than yours may be.  But to me, it's

                 just as apparent for parole officers as it is

                 to you -- and to me -- for police and fire.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Waldon, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.  Would the gentleman from

                 Westchester yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator







                                                          5556



                 Leibell, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Waldon?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Thank you very

                 much.  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

                            Senator Leibell, are you aware of

                 the various assignments within the Division of

                 Parole in regard to those who are required to

                 carry weapons?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I'm somewhat

                 familiar with them, yes.  I've worked with

                 them in the past.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Would the

                 gentleman continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    He

                 continues to yield.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    If you are,

                 Senator, then you know that many of the parole

                 officers are assigned to warrant squads or

                 other kinds of duties where they go into the







                                                          5557



                 South Bronx or other areas across the state to

                 get people who are technical and other

                 violators of parole and to apprehend them and

                 bring them in.  It's not just the New York

                 City Police Department or other municipal

                 departments who are required with a warrant to

                 go and return these people to the system.

                            Are you aware of that?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I am aware

                 of that.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Would the

                 gentleman continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Senator, if you

                 are aware of that, then you may also be

                 aware -- and please let me know if you are -

                 of situations where parole officers are

                 actually engaged in shoot-outs.  I'm sure that

                 you may have heard -- is that correct?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.  In fact,

                 when I was a prosecutor in Westchester County,







                                                          5558



                 I was involved in such a case.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    One last

                 question, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    To your

                 knowledge, in handling those cases, Senator,

                 were you made aware through the interface with

                 the parole officer or from other information

                 received that the kinds of tension and stress,

                 anxiety, back pain, cold sweats, fear

                 generated for police officers and other

                 similar law enforcement personnel could have

                 occurred in those situations where parole

                 officers were in fact exposed to gunfire?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Absolutely,

                 Senator.  And with respect to your line of

                 questioning, I've known many people in this

                 professional position.  I've known them in a

                 professional capacity, I've known them

                 socially.  And I would view this as a

                 particularly dangerous position.  It's one







                                                          5559



                 that can cause a great deal of stress.

                            And in fact, I have personally

                 known many people who have felt the effects of

                 the stress that comes from their job.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Thank you very

                 much, Senator.

                            If I may, Mr. President, on the

                 bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Waldon, on the bill.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    To my knowledge,

                 my personal knowledge, the frequency of

                 encounters and shoot-outs, et cetera, with

                 parole officers is not the same as most of the

                 police officers who work the warrant squad,

                 who work -- or who work in the detective

                 bureau.  However, one time facing down a

                 revolver firing at you is really sufficient to

                 create the kinds of stress that can create

                 problems throughout the rest of your career.

                            And from my personal knowledge,

                 that those who live in my community who happen

                 to be parole officers, sometimes they face the

                 dangers even if there's no weapon fired.  In

                 apprehending someone who is a very violent







                                                          5560



                 person, the same kind of tension occurs.

                            So I think we should give the

                 parole officers the same consideration as we

                 do other law enforcement personnel.  And I

                 applaud Senator Leibell for bringing this to

                 us for our consideration.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If the sponsor will yield to a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes,

                 Senator Leibell, I just want to make sure I

                 understand.  What is the administrative

                 proceeding in which this presumption would

                 apply and in which the rebuttal by competent

                 evidence would be required?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    It would be a







                                                          5561



                 normal disability hearing.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And under

                 the auspices of what agencies would that be

                 taking place or does that take place?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Within the

                 retirement system.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Is that

                 the same sort of proceeding for a city -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, are you asking Senator

                 Leibell -

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Oh, yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    I hate to

                 say that -

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President.  No, that's all right.

                 You're doing a fine job of keeping this in

                 line, sir.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 stenographer will note those remarks for the

                 record.  Thank you.

                            Senator Leibell, do you yield to a

                 question?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I do, Mr.

                 President.







                                                          5562



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Is there a different set

                 administrative procedure for city as opposed

                 to state parole officers?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    My

                 understanding is it is separate.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And if the

                 sponsor will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I'm not

                 sure I understand what kind of competent

                 evidence would have to be introduced to rebut

                 this.  But it seems to me that it might be -

                 have to be fairly intrusive -- evidence that

                 would involve a fairly intrusive inquiry into

                 someone's diet, lifestyle, and other factors

                 that might have contributed to heart disease.

                            Has there been any evaluation of







                                                          5563



                 the types of inquiry that might be undertaken

                 within the pension system or by those who are

                 responsible for rebutting this presumption and

                 what kinds of personal information they might

                 be required to get out about parole officers?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    There hasn't

                 been an inquiry by me, but there certainly is

                 a history and a line of cases with respect to

                 other people who would have this or who would

                 benefit from this sort of a presumption with

                 respect to heart disease, where there have

                 been hearings.

                            Now, you make the interesting point

                 if you had somebody who has led a particular

                 lifestyle -- had not been watchful of their

                 weight, for instance, and had been

                 excessive -- that may very well be in fact

                 evidence that could be used to rebut.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.







                                                          5564



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Is there

                 any requirement that the beneficiaries of this

                 legislation would make available medical

                 records, fill out questionnaires, or otherwise

                 provide information relating to things such as

                 whether or not they smoked, what their diet

                 was, whether they'd had other kinds of medical

                 conditions or problems?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    When you make

                 application for this sort of a disability, you

                 would have to make information available.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor will continue to yield.

                            What sort of information do you

                 have to make available?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Well, for

                 instance, I'm sure there would be a litany of

                 questions that would be asked on an

                 appropriate form.  I mean, I have not seen the

                 form, but with respect to your various and

                 general -- your general health conditions.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Okay.

                 And, Mr. President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, on the bill.







                                                          5565



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I thank

                 the sponsor for his time.

                            I find I'm a little bit puzzled at

                 this point about the nature of the inquiry

                 we're undertaking.  I think that, sympathetic

                 as I am to people who suffer stress on the

                 job, it sounds like we're sort of operating in

                 a little bit of a vacuum here.  I'm not sure I

                 understand what the nature of the inquiry

                 that's possible is.

                            The variation in duties among

                 parole officers is so severe, and the

                 variation in the types of caseloads and

                 stresses and strains is so much greater than

                 for others who are covered under similar

                 statutes, that it seems to me that some sort

                 of thorough inquiry really needs to be

                 undertaken before this kind of extension of

                 law is made.  And I think for that reason I

                 have serious concerns about this bill at this

                 time.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This







                                                          5566



                 act shall take -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If Senator

                 Leibell would just yield to one quick

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield to one quick question

                 from Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.  We have a number of these

                 presumptions in the heart law for firefighters

                 and others.  What is the evidence that the

                 presumption is actually overcome?  Is there -

                 there must be, since we've had the heart bill

                 for police and fire I think now for something

                 like twenty years.  Do you have any evidence

                 of sort of a chronological record of how many

                 times someone asserts the presumption and it's

                 actually overcome on behalf of the -

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I don't have

                 any statistics on that.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Mr. President, just to clarify.







                                                          5567



                            We really don't know whether this

                 is a rebuttable presumption or an irrebuttable

                 presumption with -

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    It's rebuttable

                 by statute, we do know that.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I understand,

                 Mr. President.  But just to clarify, we don't

                 know -- I mean, if it were a hundred percent

                 of the time the presumption governed, then

                 even though we refer to it as a rebuttable

                 presumption, it becomes irrebuttable by virtue

                 of fact, in fact.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    No.  No.

                 Because it could still be rebuttable, but in

                 all the cases that came before them, it was

                 justified, the end result, by the hearing

                 officer.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Mr. President.  I agree with

                 Senator Leibell's formulation -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    You're

                 asking Senator Leibell to yield to -- is it

                 another quick question, Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    It's a

                 follow-up to the quick question.  Which will







                                                          5568



                 also be quick.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    I was

                 just going to suggest, Senator Dollinger, that

                 you never ask for an interpretation from the

                 Chair as to what your interpretation is of

                 quick.

                            Senator Leibell, do you continue to

                 yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    For a quick

                 answer, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If there were

                 a hundred percent of the cases that were

                 unable to rebut the presumption, then it would

                 be a de facto irrebuttable presumption; you

                 could draw that conclusion, couldn't you, that

                 if the presumption had never been overcome and

                 hence the person was always entitled to

                 benefits in the event heart disease is

                 determined to causally be related to the death

                 or injury or the disability?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Mr. President,

                 this sounds a little bit like a law school

                 issue.  If you had one case and only one case







                                                          5569



                 arose, and that person was under it pursuant

                 to this statute even though with the

                 presumption it would be under a disability as

                 a result of heart disease, by your standing

                 that would be one hundred percent and

                 therefore de facto irrebuttable, and I would

                 not think that that would be correct.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Just briefly, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate

                 the clarification from my colleague from

                 Westchester County about the nature of

                 rebuttable and irrebuttable presumptions.

                            But I still think that as we embark

                 on doing something like this, it would be

                 helpful to know, since we've set up other

                 rebuttable presumptions about linkage between

                 heart disease -- and, in some cases,

                 established for police and fire lung

                 disabilities and other kinds of disabilities.

                 As we link them to, though, the presence of

                 those disabilities on behalf of certain

                 employees, but I think we have a long enough







                                                          5570



                 track record now to be able to make some

                 evaluation about whether the presumption works

                 as a rebuttable presumption, which is

                 oftentimes overcome, or whether it's a de

                 facto irrebuttable presumption and hence what

                 we're doing is we're creating a benefit, a

                 disability benefit for a disease that crops up

                 regardless of its causal relationship to

                 employment.

                            I've voted in favor of bills of

                 this type in the past, Mr. President.  But I

                 think it's time for us to just take a look at

                 the linkage between these presumptions to see

                 whether they are really rebuttable both in law

                 and in fact or whether what they really

                 constitute is an irrebuttable presumption

                 which I believe -- or at least I take from

                 Senator Leibell's answers that he's not

                 intending to create an irrebuttable

                 presumption.

                            It's just not the mere fact of

                 heart disease that qualifies you for

                 disability benefits, it creates a presumption.

                 The government or the entity that is

                 challenging that disability retirement or that







                                                          5571



                 disability benefit would then be able to

                 overcome it.  It's really a question of the

                 amount of evidence necessary to overcome and

                 the circumstances under which it occurs.

                            I think it would be interesting

                 just to -- I think for all of us, whenever we

                 do one of these bills in the future -- to have

                 some kind of information about that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Breslin, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Mr. President,

                 for a brief couple of questions from -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Breslin?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Senator

                 Leibell, I recall we did police officers and

                 firemen, I believe, last year, and corrections

                 offers earlier, and now parole officers.  Are

                 there any other groups that you might consider

                 prospectively that we might want to include,

                 like maybe the Senate?







                                                          5572



                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    If you mean

                 Senators, we will not be considering members

                 of the Senate.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    We will not be

                 considering members of the Senate.  How

                 about -

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I'm not aware

                 of any others right now.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    No, I'm not

                 aware of any others right now.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Excuse me,

                 Mr. President.  Through you, if you will.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    I yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Is there an

                 overall criteria that we're using?  Is it the

                 carrying of a weapon or is it the designation

                 of police-officer status, that we're trying to

                 include a particular group and only that

                 group?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Well, a weapon

                 in and of itself, Senator, would not be the







                                                          5573



                 criteria, because we include firefighters.

                 And the nature of their job in the vast

                 majority of cases, possibly unless they're a

                 fire marshal, that we would include that as

                 the sole standard alone.

                            But certainly the use of -- the

                 carrying of a weapon, the potential for having

                 to use that in your professional capacity.

                 Although correction officers, in the vast

                 majority of cases, don't, and that's one of

                 the most dangerous jobs there is.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, sir.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Could we then,

                 with that analysis, begin to say that possibly

                 a social worker, a caseworker who confronts

                 sometimes unhappy clients on a daily basis

                 might be included?







                                                          5574



                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    You know, I

                 would say that that would be very unlikely.

                 In the vast majority of cases, they would not

                 be exposed with the regularity, the

                 consistency that someone who is in this type

                 of job in the legislation before the house

                 today would be exposed to.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you very

                 much, Senator Leibell.

                            On the bill, please, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Breslin, on the bill.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    I guess -- I'm

                 very supportive of any police officers,

                 firemen, and the tremendous risks that they

                 suffer on a day-in, day-out basis.

                            However, I have serious concerns

                 about the subjective nature of taking a group

                 at random, it seems at times -- parole

                 officers -- to include in this group.  And

                 possibly we need a designation that everyone's

                 included, all workers.  And possibly even

                 members of the Senate.  And possibly even

                 members of the Senate in the latter part of

                 the spring and early summer, just for that







                                                          5575



                 time frame.

                            So other bills of this nature, I've

                 supported totally.  I have serious

                 reservations about this one.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hevesi, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield to a

                 few questions, please?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Hevesi?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Senator, I'm a little bit concerned

                 about the potential fiscal implication were

                 this piece of legislation to be enacted.  Can

                 you explore that for me, please?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    It's very

                 minimal, Senator.  Dependent upon the number

                 of members granted an increase in benefits, a

                 10 percent increase in disability cases would







                                                          5576



                 bring an annual cost to the state of $700.  A

                 25 percent increase in disability cases would

                 cost the state $2,100.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.  Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  Do we have any kind of projection or

                 assumption on exactly how many -- I understand

                 that you've -- we have numbers here on per

                 case, per individual -- who would then be

                 eligible for -- to collect disability as a

                 result of the legislation?

                            Do we know how many individuals

                 that this could potentially impact so that we

                 can apply that to the numbers that you have

                 here and make a determination as to the

                 aggregate fiscal impact?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Senator, I

                 don't know how you would determine that until







                                                          5577



                 you have some experience.  And there's no

                 experience because it's not legislation now.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 through you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator, I'm

                 sure you are concerned, as I am concerned, now

                 that the budget is months late and we're going

                 to potentially enact a piece of legislation

                 that we don't really know the fiscal impact

                 of.

                            And while I can appreciate that

                 it's very difficult to ascertain exactly how

                 many individuals would affected by this,

                 before I decide whether or not to vote on this

                 bill, I'd like to know whether similar

                 legislation has been passed concerning parole

                 officers in other states or whether there is a

                 comparable group of individuals within New







                                                          5578



                 York State who we might be able to do some

                 extrapolation on the numbers.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Senator, I'm

                 not familiar with what other states are doing

                 in this area.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.  On

                 the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                 Mr. President, on the bill.

                            I have a general sense from my

                 experiences with parole officers that the job

                 that they perform is exceedingly dangerous.

                 And Senator Waldon articulated some of those

                 dangers.  And in fact, earlier this year I

                 actually went with a -- the head of the New

                 York State Parole Officers throughout Albany

                 and experienced what they experience on a

                 day-to-day basis.

                            And there is a significant element

                 of danger involved in the jobs that they

                 conduct and the tasks that they perform.  And







                                                          5579



                 to that end, it is consistent with the

                 provisions and protections that we have

                 provided for other members of the uniformed

                 services.

                            On the other hand, I am concerned

                 about a fiscal impact here, that we really

                 don't know what it might be, particularly in

                 light of the fact that the state budget is so

                 late.

                            And the final concern that doing

                 this, even if it's appropriate, raises the

                 question that we now have to make an

                 evaluation every time another group, however

                 deserving they may be, another group requests

                 this privilege or this right to be extended to

                 them.

                            So I just -- I'm a little

                 uncomfortable with it.  I'll probably wind up

                 voting for the bill.  And I appreciate,

                 Senator, your efforts on behalf of parole

                 officers.  But there is a little bit of

                 trepidation or, better yet, pause for

                 deliberation when we see this bill before us.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator







                                                          5580



                 Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I listened to the discussion, and I heard very

                 good points brought out.  But I feel that -

                 as they say, there's that expression, it's a

                 good idea whose time has come.  And this is a

                 good idea whose time may not be gone, but

                 we're getting very close to it.

                            Because what I'm beginning to think

                 is the case is that there are several other

                 lines of work that can come in here and can

                 definitely put on the record that the degree

                 of difficulty of performing those jobs is very

                 difficult now.

                            We now have a piece of legislation

                 we passed in this house where we're giving

                 teachers the right to expel students for ten

                 days without a hearing.  And I don't know

                 whether or not we should be doing that, but

                 that's what we did.  But certainly, whether

                 you agree with it or you don't -- and I don't

                 know that I agree with it -- you do have to

                 recognize that the difficulty of being a

                 teacher -- I mean, how many times have we

                 found that out, just in our most recent days,







                                                          5581



                 that being a teacher is a difficult profession

                 and often a risky profession, and that there

                 are dangers commensurate with trying to

                 perform those duties.

                            Should the teachers have this same

                 legislation?  I don't know what the degree of

                 difficulty is for the parole officers, so I

                 don't know whether the teachers should have it

                 or not.  I'm just saying that it's becoming

                 something that is assimilating into something

                 that I don't know that it was intended to be

                 when it was first drafted.

                            And if the relevant documentation

                 can be shown, I think I would have to vote for

                 the legislation.  I'm open on this.  But I'm

                 also very concerned about what we're starting

                 to do.  And as Senator Hevesi pointed out so

                 adroitly, the fiscal impact, it's a little

                 bit, at a time -- I guess it's Senator

                 Dollinger, who stands in this same place and

                 goes through the whole issue of the fiscal

                 impacts.  But I'll spare you that,

                 Mr. President.

                            But just suffice it to say that it

                 is of great concern that we don't create some







                                                          5582



                 kind of standard when we're going to give

                 special protection that is needed by workers

                 in certain areas.  But we just need to know to

                 what degree we can help them, to what degree

                 we can afford it, and to what degree they must

                 first meet the burden before we establish the

                 proof.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 803 are

                 Senators Connor, Duane, and Paterson.  Ayes,

                 53.  Nays, 3.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I was hoping to be given

                 unanimous consent to vote in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 239 and Calendar Number 866.







                                                          5583



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Hearing

                 no objection, Senator Duane will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar Number 239 and

                 Calendar Number 866.

                            Senator Waldon, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Mr. President,

                 thank you for your attention.  I also

                 respectfully request unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 239.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Waldon will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 239.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 the controversial calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1295, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5589, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 courses of instruction.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Lay the bill

                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1350, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5776, an







                                                          5584



                 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to hotel

                 and motel taxes.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Lay the bill

                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1389, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4372,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Lay the bill

                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1413, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3279A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 576 of the Laws of

                 1975.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    One moment,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number







                                                          5585



                 1413, Senate Print 3279A, has been requested

                 by Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Thank you.

                            Senator, this is a bill that would

                 add the following medical schools to a list of

                 approved out-of-state schools which the

                 Commissioner of Education is authorized to

                 contract with in order to provide New York

                 State residents with expanded opportunities to

                 study medicine or dentistry and, as a return,

                 require them to serve for a period of time in

                 underserviced areas for a period of three

                 years.

                            The schools that are added are the

                 University of Padua in Padua, Italy; the Royal

                 College of Surgeons in Dublin, Ireland; St.

                 George's University School of Medicine in

                 Grenada; and the Ross University School of

                 Medicine in Dominica.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Senator, that was Grenada.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    I'm sorry,

                 Grenada.







                                                          5586



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    The question I

                 have for you is whether or not you think this

                 is necessary at a time when medical schools

                 are actually cutting back on the number of

                 students that they teach, considering the fact

                 that we really have a surplus of doctors in

                 our society.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Well, Senator,

                 I don't know that I agree with your statement

                 that we have a surplus of doctors.  But this

                 program does provide an incentive, which I

                 know you must be very much interested in, that

                 if a student takes part in a program, they

                 must be a resident of the state and agree to

                 practice in an area of the state which has a

                 shortage of physicians for a period of three

                 years following their licensure.  Failure to

                 practice in the area obligates the students to

                 reimburse  the state according to a formula

                 which would reimburse them for any monies that

                 were advanced.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President.

                            Senator, I actually agree with you.







                                                          5587



                 There never seems to be a doctor around when I

                 need one.  So I agree with you on that part.

                 But the point that -

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    If I may,

                 Senator, if you'll suffer an interruption.  It

                 depends on your HMO plan.  If you're a member

                 of the plan, they're usually available.  If

                 you're not a member, they're not.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.  That

                 opens up a whole opportunity for discussion

                 which I'm sure we'll -- we won't make our

                 colleagues suffer through.

                            But the question that I have for

                 you is, how were the schools chosen for the

                 program?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Senator, I

                 really couldn't tell you.  I assume that a

                 group of -- I can only guess at it, that a

                 group of colleges band together to try and

                 encourage New York State residents to come to

                 their facility to get some additional

                 revenues, because the state pledges to support

                 some of the cost of their education.  And they

                 have probably gone out and tried to band

                 together and offer this bill up.  And this







                                                          5588



                 bill was suggested to me by a representative

                 that they retain, to put on our calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Do -

                 Mr. President, if the Senator would yield

                 to -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Velella, do you continue do yield?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Do any of the

                 medical societies or physicians' societies

                 have any position on this?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    To the best of

                 my knowledge, I have no statement from the

                 Medical Society or from any other interested

                 party, either for or against the bill.  I

                 don't believe that they have any stated

                 position.

                            No, we have -- I just checked with

                 my office people, and they tell me they have

                 had no communication on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator







                                                          5589



                 Waldon, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Would the

                 gentleman yield to a question or two?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Velella, do you yield from Senator Waldon?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            Senator Velella, I noticed the

                 schools are in nations where the language of

                 the country is not English.  Is there a

                 requirement that the students applying for

                 those schools be fluent in the languages of

                 those particular countries; i.e., Padua,

                 Italy?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    I do know that

                 the students from New York State that go to

                 one or two of these schools, and I would

                 assume the others, are required to go down to

                 the school, I believe it's like three weeks in

                 advance.  And they are given an intensive

                 language course in the foreign language.  And

                 also many of the classes are taught in both







                                                          5590



                 the language of that particular country and in

                 English.

                            But I do know that -- you notice we

                 don't have a Guadalajara school down in Mexico

                 here.  They already are part of the program

                 that these people are trying to get into.  And

                 I know that they have the requirement that

                 they take an intensive three-or-four-week

                 course in the language.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Would the

                 gentleman yield again, Mr. President?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Senator, do you have any knowledge

                 or awareness of the number of

                 African-American, Caribbean-American, Latino

                 students who have been admitted to these

                 colleges historically?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    No, Senator.  I

                 wouldn't even look to that.  I would look to

                 eligible young people who have graduated

                 college, seeking a medical career, that have







                                                          5591



                 an opportunity to study abroad.

                            So I wouldn't even be looking -

                 I've never taken any interest into what color

                 they are or what their national origin is, I

                 just look at students that are looking to go

                 to a foreign school and how we can help them.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    One more

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Velella, do you continue do yield?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Senator, I did

                 not mean to imply that the students wouldn't

                 be qualified.  I wouldn't want someone

                 operating on me not to be qualified no matter

                 what their color.  So that wasn't intended in

                 my question.  But I appreciate your response.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.  Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          5592



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record

                 the negatives and announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1413 are

                 Senators Breslin, Connor, Duane, Hannon,

                 Marcellino, Onorato, Paterson, Schneiderman,

                 and Seabrook.  Ayes, 47.  Nays, 9.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Padavan, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Mr. President,

                 by unanimous consent I'd like to be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar Number 239.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Padavan will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 239.

                            Senator Smith, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SMITH:    Mr. President, I

                 request unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on 1413 and 239.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without







                                                          5593



                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Smith

                 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Number 239 and 1413.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President,

                 would you please call up Calendar 573.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 573.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 573, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4412A, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to the permissive revocation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk, Mr.

                 President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    I move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 on Calendar Number 573.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")







                                                          5594



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the

                 house.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President,

                 will you please call up Calendar 815.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 815, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5446B,







                                                          5595



                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Is there a

                 message at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    I move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 on Calendar Number 815.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the

                 house.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5596



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President,

                 would you please call up Calendar 860.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 860, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 118B, an

                 act to amend the State Administrative

                 Procedure Act, in relation to access to data.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Is there a

                 message at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    I move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 on Calendar Number 860.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.







                                                          5597



                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the

                 house.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President,

                 will you please continue the controversial

                 bills.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will continue to call the

                 controversial calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5598



                 1415, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3796A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to benefits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            There is a home rule message at the

                 desk.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, why do you rise?  So you could sit back

                 down and listen to Senator Paterson?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, why do you rise?







                                                          5599



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 when Senator Duane stood up, it was during the

                 roll call.  I think he wants to explain his

                 vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, now why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Because Senator

                 Paterson is correct.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    On which

                 calendar bill number did you wish to explain

                 your vote, Senator?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    1415.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    1415.

                 All right.  You wish to be recorded in the

                 negative?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Why don't

                 you tell us why you wish to be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Though I enjoyed

                 our camaraderie and repartee right prior to

                 this, I do want to comment that I think it's

                 really a shame that this body is voting on yet

                 another bill -- misguided bill, ill-informed







                                                          5600



                 bill, a bill which unfortunately and sadly

                 will only continue to spread misinformation on

                 how it is that HIV is contracted.

                            I would think that by 1999 the New

                 York State Senate would have more knowledge of

                 how it is that HIV is and is not spread, and

                 also that we would realize that tuberculosis

                 is a treatable disease, though, sadly, HIV is

                 not a treatable disease.  It is spread with

                 much more difficulty than this bill and the

                 previous bills which we voted on in this body

                 would lead people to believe.

                            So with the sincere wish that in

                 the future as we consider these bills, we

                 consider it in light of what is accurate

                 public-health information, that we won't have

                 to vote on more of these misguided and

                 ill-informed pieces of legislation which sadly

                 serve to stigmatize people with HIV.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Duane

                 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Number 1415.

                            The Secretary will continue to call







                                                          5601



                 the controversial calendar.

                            But before that, Senator Paterson,

                 why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like to also be recorded in the negative

                 on Calendar Number 1415.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Paterson will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1415.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1418, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4124A, an

                 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in

                 relation to liability.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Alesi, an explanation been requested by

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  This would simply state that

                 anyone who is injured on the job but who is

                 performing an illegal act would not qualify







                                                          5602



                 for workers' compensation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 that makes perfect sense to me.  If Senator

                 Alesi would yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    That would make

                 perfect sense to me, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator Alesi,

                 what in a situation -- let me give you an

                 example.  Suppose the employee was driving a

                 car that was not registered, so the employee,

                 although committing an illegal act, is unaware

                 that they are committing an illegal act; it's

                 actually the employer who had the unregistered

                 vehicle.

                            And my question is, would there be

                 any opportunity for the individual to

                 demonstrate special circumstances that would

                 allow them to qualify for workers'

                 compensation?  Ignorance of the law is no







                                                          5603



                 excuse in the legal community, but here we're

                 talking about in the compensation community.

                 And I'm wondering if this would be an

                 exception that you would think was meritorious

                 of some consideration.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President,

                 through you.

                            Senator, it's clear we both read

                 the memo from the Trial Lawyers.  So my

                 response to you would be this, that the

                 Workers' Compensation Board does have some

                 latitude in determining cases.  And in the

                 case that you described, I'm sure that they

                 would recognize that that wasn't necessarily a

                 conscious illegal act on the part of the

                 employee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if Senator Alesi -- I figured if he yielded

                 once, he'll yield again.  But we should ask

                 him.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    There are limits

                 to everything, Mr. President.  But I will

                 yield another time, yes.







                                                          5604



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Then, Senator,

                 it's your opinion that this legislation would

                 not diminish or in any way negate the

                 opportunity for the Workers' Compensation

                 Board to perhaps make an award in this

                 circumstance such as the one I described?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            No, it would not limit that, as

                 I've already described.  And furthermore, it

                 simply recognizes that the disability benefits

                 section of workers' comp already takes into

                 account a nonpayment for illegal acts.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            Excuse me, Senator Dollinger.  Why

                 do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just one

                 question for the sponsor, if he'll continue to







                                                          5605



                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you yield to a question, one

                 question, from Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is there a

                 definition of the phrase "illegal act" in

                 other places in the Compensation Law?  My

                 concern is that Senator Paterson brought up

                 one possibility.  Another possibility is we've

                 attached -- we've made either violations or

                 misdemeanors out of all kinds of reporting

                 conduct and other types of conduct.

                            My question is, does the illegal

                 act require a misdemeanor or a felony, or is

                 it a violation as well?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            The bill clearly states that if the

                 employee is convicted of an illegal act, by

                 virtue of being convicted the conviction would

                 define what the illegal act would be.  And the

                 denial, based on the decision and







                                                          5606



                 determination of the Workers' Comp Board,

                 would be sufficient.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record

                 the negatives and announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1418 are

                 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Duane, Gentile,

                 Onorato, Paterson, Schneiderman, and Waldon.

                 Ayes, 48.  Nays, 8.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President,

                 please call up Calendar 1426.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1426.







                                                          5607



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1426, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5213, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Alesi, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar Number 1426 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            This bill is fashioned after the

                 child abuse reporting laws that we have in

                 this state already.  It recognizes the growing

                 problem of abuse that occurs in the elder

                 population, whether it is in nursing homes or

                 other facilities.  It also includes those who

                 are physically or mentally incapacitated and

                 who are under care in some other facility.

                            It would require that anybody who

                 is in a professional capacity that comes into

                 contact with someone who appears to be abused

                 would be required to report that suspected

                 abuse to the appropriate agency or

                 authorities.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.







                                                          5608



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Be happy to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I agree that

                 mandatory reporting of abuse of mentally or

                 physically incapacitated persons is a very

                 good idea, and it's time that the state did

                 that.

                            I'm wondering also whether or not

                 the sponsor agrees that reporting of

                 bias-related incidents based on sexual

                 orientation or anti-Semitism or racism is

                 something that also should be reported in the

                 State of New York.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President,

                 through you.  As the issue that Senator Duane

                 raises is not part of this particular bill, my

                 opinions on that will remain for another day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.







                                                          5609



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I again applaud

                 this piece of legislation.  I think that this

                 kind of reporting is very important and

                 something which is overdue in the state of New

                 York.

                            But I also would urge my colleagues

                 to keep in mind that another area of crime

                 which is not reported in the state of New York

                 is bias-related crime.  In fact, only a

                 handful of reporting agencies, out of the 500

                 law-enforcement agencies that could, report

                 bias incidents of any type at all.  And of

                 those, we don't know what smaller number of

                 those report bias incidents based on sexual

                 orientation.

                            Even so, when these statistics are

                 gathered, bias based on sexual orientation is

                 the third highest form of bias-related

                 incidents, behind anti-Semitism and racism.

                 And I just would urge my colleagues to make it

                 part of the agenda of this session to make it







                                                          5610



                 possible in New York State for us to have

                 reporting on bias-related crimes.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1419, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4377B,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Actions and

                 Proceedings Law, in relation to new owners.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Bonacic, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            This is a piece of legislation







                                                          5611



                 where we're amending the Real Property Actions

                 and Proceedings Law in relation to new owners

                 of buildings for which administrators have

                 been appointed, pursuant to Article 7A.  This

                 is an agreed-upon bill.  Assemblyman Lopez is

                 carrying it in the Assembly.

                            And what the legislation will do,

                 it will create more affordable housing to

                 tenants in New York City.  What has been

                 happening in New York City since the mid-'80s,

                 we had, believe it or not, about 86,000

                 abandoned buildings, people just walking -

                 owners walking away.  And due to the city's

                 efforts in a very aggressive policy, they've

                 been taking over many of those abandoned

                 buildings, expending city money to

                 rehabilitate them, and then looking for a new

                 owner to come over and enter into regulatory

                 agreements, and then a new owner would upkeep

                 them.

                            We're now down to 16,000 abandoned

                 buildings in the city of New York, in the

                 metropolitan area, of which still we have to

                 focus on and try to convert into affordable

                 housing.







                                                          5612



                            So this legislation -- what happens

                 now, if an owner abandons a building, the

                 tenants petition the court to have an

                 administrator appointed.  The administrator

                 then -- all city-owned money -- will upgrade

                 the buildings, a lien will go on the building.

                 Then they will look for a new owner, enter

                 into a regulatory agreement.  And that lien,

                 of which the city invested in that abandoned

                 building, will be evaporated over 15 years.

                 And the agreement that they enter into with

                 the new owner is for 30 years.

                            So it's been a very successful

                 program.  We have roughly 2300 units,

                 apartments, that are in -- under the

                 administrators, waiting for this law to pass

                 so we can then get it into affordable housing

                 and get it to a new owner.

                            That's what the legislation is.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Gentile, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes, would the

                 sponsor yield for a question or two?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          5613



                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Through you, Mr. President.

                            Senator, while the intent of the

                 legislation is certainly worthwhile and lofty,

                 there are some questions about the actual

                 wording of the bill that trouble me.  For

                 example, in these regulatory agreements, the

                 way I read this bill, is there any provision

                 being made for either the judge or the

                 administrator, the 7A administrator, to have

                 any -- be involved in any of these

                 transactions or any of the decisions that come

                 under the regulatory agreements that this bill

                 will authorize?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yeah, the

                 administrator has oversight.  And he makes -

                 he makes suggestions to the judge as to, you

                 know, who the building should be sold to.

                 They talk about the details of the regulatory

                 agreement -- whether we'll have rent

                 restructuring, whether there will be an

                 increase in the rent just to cover the cost of

                 improvements.

                            And I may say, since these policies







                                                          5614



                 have been in effect, there has never been one

                 displaced tenant in this transition of going

                 from an abandoned building, from the old

                 owner, going to administrator, court

                 proceeding, new owner, never had one displaced

                 tenant, to the city's credit.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes, if the

                 sponsor will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Bonacic, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    He

                 continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Senator, in

                 this legislation, however, it indicates that

                 the agreement is between the city and the new

                 owner.  It does not mention in any way any

                 oversight or involvement by the judge or by

                 the 7A administrator.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yeah, that is

                 correct.  But let me try to clarify your

                 misconception.

                            The administrator has the oversight







                                                          5615



                 responsibility to the judge when the building

                 gets abandoned.  It is -- can be a private

                 person that's appointed.  And the

                 administrator, since it's the city's money, is

                 really communicating with the City of New York

                 officials as to how they're going to proceed,

                 what new owner is in the wings, how much money

                 are they going to invest in this particular

                 building, how much is going to be

                 rent-restructured, and what improvements are

                 going to be made.

                            Now, that's a judicial, mechanical

                 process that takes part in a judicial

                 proceeding.  Any agreement is with the City of

                 New York and the new owner.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Bonacic, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.  I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            You mentioned also rent







                                                          5616



                 restructuring.  Does this bill, the way it's

                 written, allow HPD, New York City Housing

                 Preservation, to override in rent

                 restructuring -- as provided in this bill, to

                 override the Rent Stabilization Law, the Rent

                 Control Law, and the Emergency Tenant

                 Protection Act?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    It's my

                 understanding that this legislation would do

                 that.  It would give the power to the city,

                 the administrator to restructure and raise the

                 rent.

                            But the rents are geared strictly

                 for the cost of the capital improvements.  So

                 you're upgrading the living conditions and the

                 quality of life of the tenants.  That's the

                 purpose of it.  It's not made to charge more

                 than what the cost of improvements are.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the sponsor

                 will continue to yield.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you.

                            In that, Senator, there are some







                                                          5617



                 words in this legislation that are rather

                 vague when we talk about helping the tenants

                 and improving the lot of the tenants in the

                 building.  For example, it indicates here that

                 best efforts would be made by HPD to minimize

                 involuntary economic displacement of tenants.

                            My question to you is, what is

                 meant here by "best efforts," left solely in

                 the legislation as "best efforts"?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Well, if we

                 didn't have the program, we'd have 86,000

                 abandoned buildings that all the tenants would

                 have to get out of, because it wouldn't be

                 habitable, it would be rat-infested, and we

                 would have not kept them -- to keep them in a

                 condition where we would put any human being

                 in.

                            So the whole purpose of the program

                 is to make sure that the water is clean, that

                 the plumbing works, that the wiring is safe,

                 that the building is habitable.  And the city

                 puts their money into the building and then

                 tries to find an owner, a new owner -- and

                 sometimes they're not waiting in the wings,

                 because these are buildings that are very







                                                          5618



                 badly deteriorated, in high-crime zones.  And

                 then what they do is they make an investment

                 and they try to keep the rent as low as

                 possible, and most times subsidizing what they

                 actually invested in the building to try to

                 keep the tenants there.

                            And the proof of the pudding is

                 there hasn't been one displaced tenant when

                 they've reduced the amount of abandoned

                 buildings in New York City from 86,000 to

                 16,000 that they have now.  So I don't think

                 we can -- I mean, we can ask about it.  But

                 you've never had a displaced tenant that said,

                 "Hey, I can't afford the rent restructuring

                 and I don't want to stay here," because it's a

                 heck of a lot better now than it was with the

                 old owner.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            We mentioned the best efforts to







                                                          5619



                 prevent the economic displacement of tenants.

                 That's in this legislation.  But, Senator, in

                 this legislation there is no specific

                 requirement for HPD -- or any governmental

                 agency, for that matter -- to provide those

                 loans or grants to actually rehabilitate those

                 affected buildings.  Am I correct about that?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Well, the whole

                 purpose of the program and the policies is to

                 accomplish that.  Just for your own

                 information, we -- rent restructuring

                 authority already exists in other statutes

                 utilized by the HPD, which is the New York

                 City Department of Housing Preservation and

                 Development.  You have it in Article 8, you

                 have it in Article 8A, and you have it in

                 Article 15.

                            So we're just now expanding the

                 authority to Article 7A housing, which will

                 provide the city with the ability to transform

                 these buildings into a source of permanent

                 affordable housing.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    But you would

                 agree with me that there is no requirement in

                 this bill for rehabilitation?







                                                          5620



                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Well, I will

                 say to you that the whole essence of the

                 policy is to do rehabilitation.  So I think

                 your concerns are unfounded in view of the

                 past success of the city's policies.  And I

                 know you certainly would want to see more

                 increased affordable housing, you know, for

                 your residents in Brooklyn and the rest of the

                 metropolitan area.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            What also concerns me is the fact

                 that by the provisions of this bill, aren't we

                 in effect allowing owners of deteriorated

                 buildings to benefit from an increased market

                 value in the buildings as a result of this

                 rehabilitation?  And also allowing the lien to

                 evaporate over a period of years, doesn't that

                 increase the market value of the buildings for

                 the purpose?  And in effect -- I understand







                                                          5621



                 what the purpose is, but in effect, doesn't

                 that reward the very landlords that -

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Allowed it to

                 fall into disrepair.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    -- allowed it

                 to happen?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I think it's a

                 good concern.  There is no intent -- in fact,

                 there is language in this legislation where

                 the prior owner cannot use a straw man, new

                 owner, to buy the property, where the real

                 equitable owner or the beneficial owner is the

                 one that let the building go into disrepair.

                            Conceivably, though, to answer your

                 question specifically, old owner walks away,

                 we're in court, the administrator and New York

                 City puts money into the building,

                 rehabilitates the building, and they find a

                 new owner.  It's conceivable that the old

                 owner will stand to benefit minimally to

                 expedite the transfer of the property to the

                 new owner.  But there is never a windfall,

                 there is never a big profit at the expense of

                 New York City.

                            The loan evaporates after getting







                                                          5622



                 15 years of affordable housing and management

                 by the new owner.  So that's the trade-off.

                 We feel -- in most cases the abandoned, old

                 owner gets nothing, just walks away,

                 disappears.  Can't find him.  But -- and we

                 get a minimum of 15 years of new affordable

                 housing under a new owner before the loan goes

                 away.  And normally, if they've survived 15

                 years, they live up to the agreement of 30

                 years.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    You would agree

                 with me, though, Senator, that we're not only

                 talking about owners who abandon their

                 buildings, but that those who might get a

                 windfall from this could be owners who allowed

                 their buildings to be in disrepair but have

                 not abandoned those buildings?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    As far as -

                 I'm not an administrator of the program, but I

                 will tell you what the people from the City of







                                                          5623



                 New York who -- who administrates this program

                 tells me, that they never, never have an old

                 owner reap the benefits of a plan to let their

                 building go into disrepair so they can get the

                 City of New York to invest city taxpayer money

                 for them to make a sale where they now see a

                 massive increase in profits as a result of the

                 city's infusion of capital.

                            Here's where the administrator and

                 the judge and the City of New York have

                 oversight.  And any return to the old owner is

                 minimal, at best.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Or so we say.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    So they say.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    So they say.

                            Will the sponsor continue to yield

                 for one or two more questions?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you.

                            Now, in your legislation it

                 provides for both rent restructuring and the

                 forgiving of the loans -- the evaporating of

                 the liens, I should say.  Does the 15-year







                                                          5624



                 requirement of this bill, which requires that

                 housing be for persons of low income, would

                 that still apply if in the agreement the

                 agreement only provided for rent restructuring

                 but not for -- does not include the forgiving

                 of the liens?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Could you

                 rephrase that question?  I don't think I

                 understood what you were getting at.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Sure.  The

                 legislation allows both rent restructuring and

                 the evaporation of the liens placed against

                 the building.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    That's correct.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Either or both.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Or both.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the

                 regulatory agreement only included the rent

                 restructuring, the increasing of the rent, did

                 not also provide for the evaporation of New

                 York City liens against the building, would

                 that -- would the requirement, the other

                 requirement that for 15 years that this

                 building be for low-income housing, would that

                 still be in effect if the -- if one or other







                                                          5625



                 of the two options, the liens or the rent

                 restructuring, were not in the agreement?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    As I understand

                 it, you need the evaporation in order to

                 attract new owners to come into these kinds of

                 investments.  That's point number one.  And

                 you need the rent restructuring in order to

                 capture the substantial infusion of money that

                 the city has to do to make it habitable.  And

                 it's up to, I think, $18,000 per unit the city

                 would invest to make the buildings safe to

                 keep the tenants there.

                            So I don't know if that answers

                 your question.  But I think we need both all

                 of the time -- in most cases, both happen.

                 You need the carrot, the economic incentive to

                 get the new owner, and you need the rent

                 restructuring to offset the massive amount of

                 monies to get the building back into repair.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    If the sponsor

                 would yield for one additional question.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    You mentioned,







                                                          5626



                 Senator, that there has not been one tenant

                 displaced in the history of the program.

                 However, the legislation does provide for

                 suitable temporary relocation arrangements, in

                 the event that such happens, for tenants.

                            My question again is the

                 definition:  What are we talking about when

                 we're talking about suitable temporary

                 relocations?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Well, I think,

                 as a practical matter, sometimes when the city

                 enters the picture and the owner abandons the

                 building, the building is basically unsafe.

                 And the city would love to keep the -- as a

                 practical matter, they would love the tenants

                 to be able to stay there while they're fixing

                 it up, but they have the responsibility to

                 make sure that no harm comes to those tenants.

                            And if the building is in real bad

                 shape, I would assume that they'd put the

                 tenants in hotels or other apartments until

                 they make the repairs and then allow them to

                 move back in in a much safer building.  I

                 think that's how it works.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    But that is not







                                                          5627



                 included in the bill.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    It is not.

                 And, I mean, we're not micromanaging every

                 physical aspect that you go through.  But

                 that's the intent, and that's what would

                 happen as a practical matter.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    On the bill,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Gentile, on the bill.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    While I applaud

                 Senator Bonacic on the intent of the

                 legislation here, it just seems to me that

                 many of these are a best-hope provision.  We

                 hope for the best, and we hope that HPD will

                 do the right thing and certainly rehabilitate

                 the buildings and raise rents only for the

                 purpose of rehabilitating the buildings; will,

                 in case of displacements, find suitable -

                 whatever that suitable accommodation might be,

                 and also not be in a situation where owners

                 who have allowed the building to deteriorate







                                                          5628



                 would reap a windfall from the increased

                 market value by allowing the liens to

                 evaporate over time.

                            Those are my concerns that, while

                 the intent is good here, there are real

                 vagaries, that we're giving basically the

                 authority to HPD and to the -- and to a new

                 owner to enter into a regulatory agreement

                 without much input or oversight, if any -

                 because it's not clear in this legislation -

                 from the court or from the 7A administrator.

                            Given those vagaries in the bill, I

                 have real problems of putting tenants in that

                 position of increased rents and the

                 possibility of allowing landlords that don't

                 deserve it to have windfall profits.

                            So I would ask my colleagues in

                 that to consider that in this vote.  Thank

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5629



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1419 are

                 Senators Connor, Gentile, Paterson, Rosado,

                 and Schneiderman.  Ayes, 53.  Nays, 5.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1430, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5635, an

                 act to amend Chapter 83 of the Laws of 1995.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Lay the bill

                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            Senator Schneiderman, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I'd like

                 to request unanimous content to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1415, Senate

                 Bill 3796A.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative







                                                          5630



                 on Calendar Number 1415.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1453, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5933, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, an explanation of Calendar Number 1453

                 has been requested by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Mr. President, as you know, in the

                 1997-'98 series of budget legislation, the

                 Legislature implemented the Learnfare program.

                 This legislation before us today would modify

                 that legislation.

                            The existing statute requires that

                 all social services districts have Learnfare

                 in place by September of 1999 for children in

                 grades one through six.  This legislation

                 makes three primary modifications.  The first

                 is that it somewhat delays and stretches out







                                                          5631



                 that implementation schedule so that one-half

                 of school districts within each social

                 services district must implement Learnfare by

                 September of 1999, and then we would phase in

                 the full implementation by September of the

                 year 2000.

                            Secondly, the bill before the house

                 takes a requirement in existing law, which

                 requires that a child be referred to

                 counseling after three unexcused absences, and

                 adds a requirement that the child's parents or

                 other responsible household head be added to

                 that counseling requirement.

                            The third change that the bill

                 before the house makes to existing law is to

                 delay the sunset date.  Present law would

                 sunset the Learnfare program in July of the

                 year 2000.  This bill would take that sunset

                 date to July of the year 2005.  The purpose of

                 that, of course, is to give us time to take a

                 look at the new implementation schedule and to

                 review the results.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, why do you rise?







                                                          5632



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield to

                 some questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Of course,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            Has there been any study or

                 evaluation done on the effectiveness of the

                 original legislation, the original period?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 there has been a review of the data that is

                 available from the implementation as it is at

                 this point.

                            Presently, we have some 140 schools

                 located within 43 social services districts,

                 including the city of New York.  That involves

                 some 15,000 students who are enrolled in the

                 program.  There have been 1,277 referrals for

                 counseling, and that is the result of three

                 unexcused absences within an academic quarter.

                            It is significant that the sanction







                                                          5633



                 piece, which comes into effect after four

                 unexcused absences, has only been utilized in

                 97 cases.  97 cases of sanctions out of 1277

                 counseling referrals would seem to indicate

                 that monitoring the attendance of these pupils

                 and then requiring the counseling session

                 would seem to promote school attendance.

                            There have been so far reported,

                 after initial sanctions of the 97 cases, only

                 two cases of repeat necessity of referral.  So

                 the available data would seem to suggest that

                 this does promote school attendance.  And of

                 course it is an undergirding principal of

                 Learnfare that we want to try to start

                 breaking the cycle of dependency, if you will,

                 early on by promoting school attendance,

                 school graduation, and all that learning and

                 education means.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            Through you, Mr. President, if the

                 sponsor could continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, do you yield to yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, I do,

                 Mr. President.







                                                          5634



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Can you tell me

                 who it is that performed this study?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    This is a result

                 of data that has been gathered by the State

                 Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance,

                 and it's been done by canvassing the

                 participating school districts.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And it was -

                 just to continue on that point, it was not

                 done by an outside study, it was done

                 in-house?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well,

                 Mr. President, the study was done by the State

                 Office of Temporary Assistance and Disability

                 Assistance, canvassing school districts and

                 social services districts.  I presume that's

                 the most reliable way to get the information,

                 to go to the people who are out on the street.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Through you, if I could

                 continue with some questions.







                                                          5635



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, do you yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is there evidence

                 that children in New York whose families

                 receive TADA funding attend school at a lower

                 rate than those that are non-TADA, that don't

                 get that funding?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 the initial data would suggest as much.  If we

                 have some 15,000 students enrolled in the

                 program, and 1,277 counseling referrals,

                 that's a rate of a little over 8 percent,

                 which would seem to exceed the normal absentee

                 level in most school districts.

                            I mean, understand -- and there may

                 be a philosophical difference here, but there

                 is a philosophical reason behind this.  And

                 that is that we in New York State have decided

                 that there is, in effect, a social contract

                 with the needy.  That is observed in our

                 Constitution, that is observed in statute,

                 that the needy and their children should be







                                                          5636



                 provided for so that no New Yorker should have

                 to live below a certain level of human

                 existence.

                            This, however, rests on the

                 proposition, Learnfare does, that contracts -

                 social contracts are like other contracts,

                 they're two-way streets, and that we as a

                 society ought to have the right to ask for the

                 observance of certain kinds of conduct, which

                 would include ensuring that one's children

                 receive an education so that they have a

                 better chance to escape welfare dependency.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, if

                 the sponsor would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    The sponsor

                 yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I acknowledge

                 there may very well be a philosophical

                 difference.  Be that as it may, what exists







                                                          5637



                 exists.

                            But what I'm trying to get at is I

                 understand the 8 percent of the children who

                 were studied out of the 15,000, I believe the

                 sponsor said.  But what I can't figure out

                 is -- and there may not be an answer, but is

                 that compared to 15,000 that are non-TADA?  Or

                 we just don't know that?  In other words, is

                 the 15,000 sample, 8 percent of them receive

                 counseling, as compared to 15,000 students

                 someplace who are non-TADA qualified?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 understand the question.  But the point I was

                 making is that roughly 8 percent of that

                 sampling would seem to exceed the normal

                 absentee level in terms of the overall student

                 body in every school district.

                            Now, I understand, Mr. President,

                 that averages can be deceiving.  If you're

                 standing with one foot in a bucket of ice

                 water and one foot in a bucket of boiling

                 water, on average you're comfortable.  But

                 this would seem to give us a sampling.

                            And what that legislation seeks to

                 do is to extend the implementation schedule,







                                                          5638



                 to give the school districts and counties in

                 the state of New York more time to implement

                 the program so they can do it in an orderly

                 fashion.  It sunsets the law in the year 2005.

                 And at that time, we'll have a more complete

                 set of data to review.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, if

                 the sponsor would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, I do, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Presently, each

                 school district has different guidelines for

                 how it is that Learnfare is -- well, different

                 guidelines for Workfare -- for Learnfare,

                 excuse me.  As I read this bill, it isn't

                 putting any structure into the guidelines,

                 that in fact we're expanding the program but

                 still not incorporating any guidelines.  So

                 will it be a similar situation that guidelines

                 will differ from school district to school

                 district?







                                                          5639



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 the bill provides for implementation through

                 the negotiation of an agreement between the

                 local social services district and the school

                 districts where we are implementing this.

                            And indeed, it is precisely the

                 point that we do not seek from Albany to

                 micromanage how school districts handle the

                 subject of school attendance, and that those

                 issues are best addressed at the local level.

                            But I think you will find across

                 the state that most schools recognize excused

                 absences for the same reasons -- for

                 illnesses, for deaths in the family, for

                 family emergencies and so forth.  So I think

                 you will find a degree of uniformity, but it

                 will be done according to local standards and

                 will be implemented by locally negotiated

                 agreements.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator







                                                          5640



                 Meier, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I raise that only

                 in the context of how it is that we're going

                 to study the effectiveness of the Learnfare

                 programs as they vary from district to

                 district.

                            The other area that I am concerned

                 about is whether or not, in the study that was

                 done, whether or not there was any look at the

                 effectiveness of truancy-prevention programs

                 in terms of what the percentages are in each

                 school district and whether truancy-prevention

                 programs end up having an impact on school

                 attendance as opposed to only the Learnfare

                 project in and of itself without the

                 truancy-prevention programs.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well,

                 Mr. President, that was the point I thought I

                 was making, that of the over 1,200 referrals

                 for counseling, out of that cohort only 97

                 resulted in sanctions.  That would seem to







                                                          5641



                 indicate that counseling -- once we identify a

                 student as a truancy problem, that counseling

                 is effective.

                            I would suggest that this

                 legislation, which adds the additional

                 requirement of parental involvement in

                 counseling, would only further serve to make

                 that counseling effective.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And a final

                 question, Mr. President, if the sponsor will

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, do you yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is the sponsor

                 aware of anything that's being done to expand

                 programs such as the Attendance Improvement

                 and Dropout Prevention Program?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well, again,

                 Mr. President, that is what this bill seeks to

                 do, by providing a better implementation

                 schedule, by encouraging parental involvement

                 in individual school districts across the







                                                          5642



                 state.  There very well may be programs to

                 implement attendance improvement, but I would

                 add that I thought that that is a good part of

                 what the schools are in the business of doing,

                 is making sure that the kids, regardless of

                 whether their households may be

                 family-assistance recipients, of making sure

                 that the kids attend school.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  On

                 the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            I am concerned that while we're

                 collecting statistics, we're not comparing

                 them to anything.  There's no comparison being

                 made to students that are not TADA receivers.

                 And also, while we have the aggregate numbers,

                 we don't have a breakdown by school district

                 to school district and have a way to compare

                 them with what guidelines are in place and

                 what programs are in place.

                            And I think that while I do agree







                                                          5643



                 that philosophically we probably have a

                 different point of view -- which will be

                 exacerbated by the sanctions which are going

                 to come into effect -- I still think that we

                 could be using this time to make a better

                 study about what it is that actually works for

                 students who are poor or come from poor

                 families as well as for students that come

                 from more advantaged families.

                            So my point is even if we disagree

                 at the root philosophically, that there is

                 always room to use what information we have to

                 provide for better programs as we go into the

                 out years.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.  Nays,







                                                          5644



                 3.  Senators Duane, Paterson, and Schneiderman

                 recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Mendez, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MENDEZ:    Thank you.

                 Mr. President, I wish unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative in Calendar Number

                 1419.  I was out of the chamber when the vote

                 was taken.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Mendez will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar 1419.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 the controversial calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1456, by Member of the Assembly Canestrari,

                 Assembly Print Number 5126, an act authorizing

                 the reopening.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Lay the bill

                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            Senator McGee.







                                                          5645



                            SENATOR McGEE:    May we please

                 return to the reports of standing committees.

                 I believe there's a Rules Committee report at

                 the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    We will

                 return to the order of reports of standing

                 committees.

                            There is a Rules report at the

                 desk.  I'll ask the Secretary to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the

                 following bills directly for third reading:

                            Senate Prints 1202A, by Senator

                 LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law;

                            2075, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Administrative Code of the City of

                 New York;

                            2347, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

                 act to amend the Navigation Law;

                            2403, by Senator LaValle, an act

                 relating to the granting of retirement system

                 death benefits;

                            2543C, by Senator Marcellino, an

                 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law;







                                                          5646



                            2884, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the Judiciary Law;

                            3365A, by Senator Wright, an act to

                 amend the Tax Law;

                            3514B, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Labor Law;

                            3805, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

                            3828, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the State Finance Law;

                            3893, by Senator Bonacic, an act to

                 amend the Executive Law;

                            3897, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the State Finance Law;

                            4032, by Senator Goodman, an act to

                 amend the Executive Law;

                            4061A, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

                 act to legalize;

                            4067, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Administrative Code of the City of

                 New York;

                            4135A, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;

                            4188, by Senator Maltese, an act to

                 amend the Administrative Code of the City of







                                                          5647



                 New York;

                            4244B, by Senator Hannon, an act to

                 amend the State Finance Law;

                            4323A, by Senator McGee, an act to

                 amend the Economic Development Law;

                            4489, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Racing and Pari-Mutuel Wagering Law;

                            4529, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law;

                            4585B, by Senator Maziarz, an act

                 to amend the Public Health Law;

                            4640, by Senator Hannon, an act to

                 amend Chapter 904 of the Laws of 1984;

                            4680A, by Senator Stafford, an act

                 to amend the Public Health Law;

                            4689A, by Senator Alesi, an act to

                 redistribute;

                            5049, by Senator Alesi, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            5055, by Senator Hoffmann, an act

                 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;

                            5356, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Education Law;

                            5385A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law;







                                                          5648



                            5462B, by Senator Maziarz, an act

                 to amend the Public Health Law;

                            5488, by Senator Bonacic, an act to

                 enable the County of Ulster;

                            5492, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Racing and Pari-Mutuel Wagering Law;

                            5499A, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Racing and Pari-Mutuel Wagering Law;

                            5577, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            5586A, by Senator Stafford, an act

                 relating to constituting;

                            5590, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Executive Law;

                            5601, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the Social Services Law;

                            5643A, by Senator Marcellino, an

                 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law;

                            5674, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Labor Law;

                            5699A, by Senator Seward, an act to

                 amend the General Municipal Law;

                            5716A, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;







                                                          5649



                            5717A, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5797A, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5914, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5915, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5916, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5917, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5918A, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5935, by the Committee on Rules, an

                 act to amend Chapter 141 of the Laws of 1994;

                            And 5953, by Senator Smith, an act

                 directing the Department of State.

                            All bills directly for third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 move to accept the Rules Committee report.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          5650



                 motion is to accept the report of the Rules

                 Committee.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The Rules

                 report is accepted.  The bills are ordered

                 directly to third reading.

                            Senator Gentile, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Mr. President,

                 I just rise to inquire how I was recorded on

                 Calendar Number 1418.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Gentile, the Secretary has you recorded as

                 being in the negative on Calendar Number 1418.

                 Is that your pleasure?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    I would ask

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 affirmative on 1418.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection -

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    -







                                                          5651



                 Senator Gentile will be recorded in the

                 affirmative on Calendar Number 1418.

                            Senator Stachowski, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.

                 President, may I have unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1413.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection -

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    -

                 hearing no objection, Senator Stachowski will

                 be recorded in negative on Calendar Number

                 1413.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 would ask that we return to the Senate

                 Supplementary Calendar 56A and read the

                 noncontroversial items.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the noncontroversial reading of

                 Senate Supplemental Calendar 56A, which is on

                 the members' desks.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1458, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1202A,







                                                          5652



                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1459, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2075, an

                 act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          5653



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1460, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 2347, an act to amend the Navigation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1461, Senator LaValle moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Civil Service

                 and Pensions, Assembly Bill 4250 and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1461.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Substitution is

                 ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.







                                                          5654



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1461, by Member of the Assembly Vitaliano,

                 Assembly Print 4250, an act relating to the

                 granting of retirement system death benefits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1463, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2884, an

                 act to amend the Judiciary Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1464, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3365A,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          5655



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect December 1st.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1465, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3514B, an

                 act to amend the Labor Law and the Urban

                 Development Corporation Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1466, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3805, an







                                                          5656



                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1467, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3828, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1468, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3893,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5657



                 1469.  In relation to Calendar Number 1469,

                 Senator Saland moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill 7644 and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1469.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1470, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4032,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 38.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5658



                 1471.  In relation to Calendar Number 1471,

                 Senator Oppenheimer moves to discharge from

                 the Committee on Rules and substitute it for

                 the identical third reading, 1471.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1471, by Member of the Assembly Tocci,

                 Assembly Print 6880A, an act to legalize,

                 validate, ratify and confirm.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1472, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4067,







                                                          5659



                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Section 5.

                 This act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1474, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4188 -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The bill will be laid aside at the

                 request of the Acting Minority Leader.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1476.  In relation to Calendar Number 1476,

                 Senator McGee moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 5337A and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1476.







                                                          5660



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1476, by Member of the Assembly Destito,

                 Assembly Print 5337A, an act to amend the

                 Economic Development Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1477, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4489, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the







                                                          5661



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1478, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4529,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1479, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4585B,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law and the

                 Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5662



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1480.  In relation to Calendar Number 1480,

                 Senator Hannon moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 8236 and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1480.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1480, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8236, an act to amend Chapter

                 904 of the Laws of 1984.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.







                                                          5663



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1481, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4680A,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1482, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4689A, an

                 act to redistribute 1998 bond volume

                 allocations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1483.  In relation to Calendar Number 1483,

                 Senator Alesi moves to discharge, from the







                                                          5664



                 Committee on Commerce, Economic Development

                 and Small Business, Assembly Bill 471 and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1483.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1483, by Member of the Assembly Destito,

                 Assembly Print 471, an act to amend the Public

                 Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            Last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1484, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 5055,

                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets







                                                          5665



                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 April.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1485, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5356,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1486, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5385A, an act to amend the Executive Law and

                 the Parks, Recreation and Historic

                 Preservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.







                                                          5666



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1487, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5462B,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 April.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1488, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 5488,

                 an act to enable the County of Ulster.







                                                          5667



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1489, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5492, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1490, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5499A,

                 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel

                 Wagering and Breeding Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.







                                                          5668



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1491, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5577, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1493.  In relation to Calendar Number 1493,

                 Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.







                                                          5669



                            THE SECRETARY:    -- Assembly Bill

                 8130A and substitute it for the identical

                 third reading, 1493.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1493, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8130A, an act to amend the

                 Executive Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1494, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5601, an

                 act to amend the Social Service Law, the

                 Family Court Act, and the Civil Practice Law

                 and Rules.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay the bill

                 aside, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1495, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 5643A, an act to amend the Environmental







                                                          5670



                 Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1496, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5674, an

                 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to

                 funds.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1497, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5699A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.







                                                          5671



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1498.  In relation to Calendar Number 1498,

                 Senator Johnson moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 8165A and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1498.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1498, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8165A, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator LaValle recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5672



                 1499.  In relation to Calendar Number 1499,

                 Senator Johnson moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 6044A and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1499.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1499, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,

                 Assembly Print 6044A, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator LaValle recorded in the negative.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1500.  In relation to Calendar Number 1500,







                                                          5673



                 Senator Johnson moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 8479A and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1500.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1500, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8479A, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator LaValle recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1501.  In relation to Calendar Number 1501,

                 Senator Johnson moves to discharge, from the







                                                          5674



                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 8169 and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1501.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1501, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8169A, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1502.  In relation to Calendar Number 1502,

                 Senator Johnson moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 8117 and







                                                          5675



                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 1502.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1502, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8117, an act to amend the

                 Environmental Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1503, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5916,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.







                                                          5676



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1504, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5917,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator LaValle recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1505, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5918A,







                                                          5677



                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect November 1st.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, to explain his vote on Calendar

                 Number 1505.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Briefly,

                 Mr. President, we'd like to give the Neptune

                 Award to Senator Johnson to all these bills

                 apparently regulating the fishing of all the

                 fish in the sea.

                            So we're going to give you the

                 Neptune Award, Senator Johnson, for carrying

                 these eight bills, and we'll deliver our

                 trident to you later this week.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    How do

                 you vote, Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Aye,







                                                          5678



                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1507, by Senator Smith, Senate Print 5953, an

                 act directing the Department of State to

                 examine and investigate the use.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar,

                 Calendar Number 56A.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,







                                                          5679



                 is there any housekeeping at all at the desk

                 that should be done?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos, yes, there is one motion we have we'd

                 like to take up.  You want to return to the

                 order of motions and resolutions?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.  Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Saland, please remove the

                 sponsor star from Calendar Number 645.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 sponsor star is removed from Calendar Number

                 645.

                            Senator Smith, why do you rise?

                            Senator Montgomery, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Mr.

                 President, I would like unanimous consent to

                 be recorded in the negative on several bills.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection -

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Okay, thank







                                                          5680



                 you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    -

                 hearing no objection -- Senator Montgomery,

                 why don't you list the bills for us.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right.

                 Calendars 239, 866, 1413, 1415, 1418, 1419,

                 and 1453.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar Numbers 239, 866,

                 1413, 1415, 1418, 1419, and 1453.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 can we at this time take up the reading of the

                 controversial calendar, supplemental.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the controversial

                 supplemental calendar, Calendar 56A.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1463, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2884, an

                 act to amend the Judiciary Law and the Uniform

                 City Court Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the







                                                          5681



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1466, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3805, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, an explanation of Calendar Number 1466

                 has been requested by Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Mr. President,

                 this bill is a chapter amendment to Chapter

                 300 of the Laws of 1998, where we granted

                 retirement credit for a period of workers'

                 compensation leave for members of the New York

                 City Employees Retirement System who are

                 transit operating and bridge and tunnel

                 employees.  However, we inadvertently omitted







                                                          5682



                 the bridge and tunnel officers, sergeants and

                 lieutenants, from the benefits.  This

                 legislation corrects the oversight.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if Senator Trunzo would just

                 yield to a couple of quick questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Are there

                 currently employees in the City of New York

                 who get this benefit, the workers' -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, excuse the interruption.  It's just

                 a little noisy in the chamber.  I know that

                 Senator Trunzo can't hear with the

                 conversation going on right next to him.  So

                 Senator Lack, if you could take that

                 conversation away from Senator Trunzo, he

                 might be able to hear the question.







                                                          5683



                            I think Senator Trunzo can now

                 hear.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Through you, could Senator

                 Trunzo just tell me what other employees of

                 the City of New York, if any, now get this

                 benefit, credit for their periods of workers'

                 compensation leave on their pension benefit,

                 Mr. President?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    I didn't quite

                 hear the question.  I'm sorry.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I

                 apologize -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    I was

                 wrong.  I'm sorry, Senator Dollinger.  Would

                 you speak a little louder?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    This, as you

                 know, Mr. President, is unusual for me, since

                 I'm usually heard most times.

                            Senator Trunzo, what current

                 employees of the City of New York get this

                 benefit, this -- in other words, the credit

                 for their workers' compensation benefits in

                 their pension calculation?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    All of them do,







                                                          5684



                 from my understanding, except for the ones

                 that we happen to have unfortunately left out

                 of this legislation last year; that is,

                 Tri-Borough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.  When

                 we did the legislation last year, Chapter 300,

                 we included the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel

                 Authority personnel, but unfortunately forgot

                 to include the sergeants and the lieutenants

                 from this benefit.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, what I'm -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Do the other

                 employees of the City of New York -- not the

                 TBTA personnel, but the other employees of the

                 City of New York, the comparable employees,

                 the sergeants, lieutenants of the New York

                 City Police Department or the Housing Police

                 or the Transit Police, do they also have this







                                                          5685



                 benefit?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    The transit

                 police have it.  The transit police have that.

                 A few people have that particular clause right

                 now in the City of New York.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, just to clarify.  The transit

                 workers have it.  Do the regular police

                 officers have it?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    I'm not sure

                 about the regular police at this point.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if Senator Trunzo will continue

                 to yield for just one other question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What is the

                 cost of this measure to the pension plan, and

                 who would pay it?  And have they asked us to

                 pay it or asked us to do this knowing that

                 they've got to pay for it or somebody else is

                 going to pay for it?







                                                          5686



                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    According to the

                 bill, the fiscal note indicates that the cost

                 to the employer would be approximately

                 $200,000 per year.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.  I'm not sure I heard the

                 answer and I'm not sure I understood it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, could you repeat the answer for

                 Senator Dollinger, please?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    According to the

                 fiscal note that's on this legislation, the

                 cost would be -- to the employer would be

                 approximately 200,000 per annum.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Final

                 question, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    This measure

                 is retroactive, as I understand it, to 1998,

                 back 17 or 18 months.  Why would we make the

                 bill retroactive that far back?  I mean, how







                                                          5687



                 many people would be affected?  Will there be

                 a lump sum that will be required to be paid by

                 the TBTA at that time?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    The problem was

                 that they were originally excluded from the

                 original bill, from the Chapter 300.  And so

                 we had to make it retroactive to the date of

                 the original legislation that passed.  That

                 these should have been in that piece of

                 legislation back in 1998.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  Just a

                 final question, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Trunzo, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    How many final

                 questions you got?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Did the TBTA

                 ask us to do this bill?  The Authority, the

                 actual Authority asked us to do this bill?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes, we got this

                 from the Authority.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.







                                                          5688



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1468, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3893,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1469, by Member of the Assembly Schimminger,

                 Assembly Print 7644, an act to amend the State

                 Finance Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, an explanation of Calendar 1469 has







                                                          5689



                 been requested.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Mr. President, what this bill would

                 do would be to merely expand the current

                 authority of the Comptroller to deposit monies

                 for use in the Linked Deposit Program.  The

                 current level is $100 million.  This bill

                 would propose to expand that to $150 million.

                            And what the Linked Deposit Program

                 is, and I'm sure most of the members are

                 familiar with, it is a program whereby the

                 state or certain state authorities agree to

                 deposit monies in certain banking institutions

                 and accept a lower interest rate, generally 2

                 or 3 points lower.  Those monies are then used

                 for lower-interest-rate loans to businesses

                 that that bank may be dealing with.

                            And it's been a very successful

                 program, has leveraged a considerable amount

                 of additional dollars.  Some 600-plus loans

                 have been instituted, and the monies that

                 we've provided have been more than doubled by

                 the money that it's leveraged.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          5690



                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1474, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4188,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    An

                 explanation, Senator Maltese, has been

                 requested by the Acting Minority Leader.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

                 this is a bill that would amend the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York in

                 relation to the establishment of a 25-year

                 retirement program for members of the New York

                 City Employees Retirement System employed as







                                                          5691



                 fire-alarm dispatchers.  The terminology

                 "fire-alarm dispatchers" is specifically

                 spelled out in the bill, indicating the

                 personnel that would be covered by the

                 provisions of this bill.

                            At the present time, I am advised

                 that there are 172 members that would be

                 covered by this plan.  The plan would be

                 entirely contributory, entirely covered by the

                 members themselves.

                            The fire-alarm dispatchers are men

                 and women who are subject to a great deal of

                 stress.  Their normal work day is a 12-hour

                 shift.  In many cases, because of their small

                 numbers and fact that the work is so arduous,

                 stressful and demanding, many times they work

                 over their shifts.

                            Unlike their colleagues at 911, who

                 are largely -- largely are able to make use of

                 computers and many of the decisions are

                 triggered by computer programs that are built

                 into the system, fire-alarm dispatchers,

                 during times of high call volume, must make

                 decisions about safe deployment and relocation

                 of fire units throughout New York City so that







                                                          5692



                 no neighborhood will be lacking in fire

                 department coverage.  At times they divert

                 different equipment to the areas that the

                 calls are made in connection with.

                            The -- naturally, since the job is

                 so stressful and since it goes over all types

                 of shifts, the -- as a result, the members are

                 subject to a great many infirmities and

                 disabilities that are accentuated by any

                 stressful job.

                            It's a provision that would cover

                 them for this -- the 25-year retirement.

                 The -- it would opt in after a hundred -- they

                 would have 180 days to opt in, and after that

                 time they wouldn't be able to opt in.  And in

                 addition, they would not be able to transfer

                 from any other position that wasn't in a

                 comparable line.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Will Senator Maltese just

                 yield to a couple of quick questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Maltese, do you yield for a question?







                                                          5693



                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Sure.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Will this plan affect current

                 employees?  You talked about the opting-in

                 provision after 180 days.  Will that apply to

                 people just at the start of employment or at

                 any point in their 25-year career?  In other

                 words, will this affect current employees?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

                 through you.

                            It will affect all current

                 employees, the 173 personnel presently on.

                 Those employees will have the 180 days to opt

                 in.  As far as new employees, it will also

                 give them the 180 days after their employment

                 to opt in.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Maltese, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If an







                                                          5694



                 employee had twenty years in and wanted to

                 elect this plan and only had five years to

                 build up the credits, they would make the

                 exclusive contribution to build up enough

                 credits to fund their pension after 25 years'

                 retirement regardless of age; is that correct?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

                 yes, that is actuarially sound, I'm told.

                 They would have that option even if they had

                 the twenty years in, to be able to opt into

                 the program for 180 days.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Final

                 question, Mr. President, through you.

                            What is the current plan that

                 they're in?  Is it a standard twenty-year

                 partial with age requirement or -

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Presently

                 they're in a twenty-year retirement plan.  The

                 present plan is funded by a 3 percent

                 contribution.  This would add an additional

                 6 percent contribution.  They would then be

                 giving 9 percent of their pay to pay for not

                 only this program but their other life

                 insurance and pension plan.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,







                                                          5695



                 Mr. President, one question that arose in

                 that, if Senator Maltese will continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Maltese, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    The entire

                 9 percent would be paid for by the employee,

                 the 3 percent normal contribution plus the

                 6 percent on top of that?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    It would be 9

                 percent, which would include the 3 percent

                 they're paying now, the additional 6 percent

                 which would fund this plan.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And again,

                 through you, Mr. President, the employer

                 continues to make the 3 percent contribution

                 or to make no contribution?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    My

                 understanding is that the 3 percent presently

                 pays their retirement and pension program, and

                 that the 6 percent would then cover only this.

                 So it would be 6 plus 3, which would be







                                                          5696



                 9 percent.

                            And then also, just as an added

                 fact, they would not be able to retire -

                 there is, in a way, an age provision, because

                 they wouldn't be able to retire until age 55,

                 currently.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Well, is

                 this -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, you're asking Senator Maltese to

                 yield, or was that sufficient?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'd ask him

                 to yield, Mr. President, but I'll yield just

                 for an answer, because he knows what the

                 question is.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Well, I'm

                 sorry, Senator Dollinger, you lost me in

                 there.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Well, through

                 you, Mr. President, is this a 55-age-plan

                 retirement, or -

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    No.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I thought it

                 was 25 years -

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    It is.







                                                          5697



                 Mr. President, presently they can retire at

                 55.  This would have no age restriction.  It

                 would be 25 years at any age.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm done,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 14.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1477, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4489, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1477

                 has been requested by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.







                                                          5698



                            Senator Duane, this bill here is a

                 simple bill that over the last few years, many

                 owners of horses have assumed a dual

                 responsibility of jockey, of trainer, of

                 walker, because of the high cost of operating

                 horses at various tracks.  The question come

                 up about some of them have been injured in

                 their capacity as a jockey.  Under the

                 existing law, they weren't covered under 2 or

                 4.

                            So what we're trying to say is that

                 everybody who does that who's licensed to do

                 that as a 2 or a 4 would be adequately

                 covered.  Because right now you could ride a

                 horse as an owner, but as the designated

                 jockey you could be injured, it could be

                 fatal, it could be incapacitating for life,

                 and there's no way you can have any benefits.

                            This is covering those that only

                 act in that capacity and are licensed to act

                 in that capacity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          5699



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1481, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4680A,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 Mr. President.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1485, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5356,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the







                                                          5700



                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1489, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5492, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, I

                 believe that we ought to emphasize that bills

                 are being laid aside because members are not

                 here prepared to debate the bills.

                            The chances are good we're not

                 going to get back to this calendar, because we

                 are in a shut-down mode, the regular session

                 is supposed to end tonight, and it's our

                 intent to do the best that we can to end the

                 session today.

                            So when we run back through these,

                 if these bills are dead, they're dead.  So if

                 anyone wants a bill to be debated, they better

                 be in the chamber and they ought to be here to

                 hear the discussions that are going on.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.







                                                          5701



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1489

                 has been requested by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Senator Duane,

                 this is another racing bill.  Just for your

                 information -- I know you don't serve on our

                 committee -- but quite some time ago, the

                 chairman of the Racing Committee in the

                 Assembly and myself and our respective staffs

                 had a meeting with all the racing industry,

                 off-track betting and everything else, and one

                 of the items that come up about all of the

                 harness tracks was this specific bill here.

                 Because we're forcing tracks to race and lose

                 $80,000 or $90,000 a day when there's no way

                 for them to recoup that on their attendance or

                 in the betting.  It's also ensured that we're

                 not getting the best quality of horses.

                            Specifically, in Senator Meier's

                 district, Senator Bonacic's district, and some

                 of the other places, Senator Spano's district,

                 the purses are getting so low since 1998 that

                 it's becoming a hardship on them.







                                                          5702



                            And this has been agreed upon by

                 all the harness tracks together, because it's

                 in their best benefit because they're going to

                 have to go out of business.  If they go out of

                 business, they're going to have to lay a lot

                 of people off, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1490, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5499A,

                 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel

                 Wagering and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar 1490 has

                 been requested by Senator Duane.







                                                          5703



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Senator Duane,

                 this is another bill that was discussed at our

                 meeting and agreed on.

                            The revenues are based on a

                 percentage of the total handle at our racing

                 tracks and at the off-track betting.  For

                 example, back prior to your coming here, in

                 1998 the fund earned approximately 70,000 or

                 more in awards than the fund is statutorily

                 allowed to have.  And with the new emphasis on

                 improving the track, some of the legislation

                 that we've done in this house, we find that

                 we're doing it every year, trying to make

                 amends to the fund.

                            We've brought the fund up to a

                 level for the first time in ten years.  We now

                 feel it's time to let this handle by itself.

                 And it's agreed upon by the tracks, the owners

                 and everybody else.  And it does return the

                 money to where it's intended to go.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5704



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1493, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 8130A, an act to amend the

                 Executive Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay it

                 aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1494, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5601, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, the

                 Family Court Act, the Civil Practice Law and

                 rules.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, an explanation has been requested on

                 Calendar 1494 by Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.







                                                          5705



                            Mr. President, this is Governor

                 Pataki's program bill, the Child Support

                 Enforcement Improvement Act of 1999.  It would

                 do a number of things.  Included among them,

                 it would provide computer access to workers'

                 comp records to get child support attachment

                 enforcement.  It will increase penalties for

                 criminal nonsupport, including a new D felony

                 classification.

                            It would provide mandatory counsel

                 fees in an instance where a punitive father

                 disputes paternity after a 95 percent

                 likelihood finding on a DNA test.  It would

                 provide civil penalties in addition for

                 evading, attempting to evade paternity

                 testing.

                            It would provide some clarification

                 of the recent Kennedy decision with respect to

                 the suspension of motor vehicle licenses where

                 there are arrearages.

                            And also it would provide for the

                 elimination of a grant where a parent is not

                 cooperating in either establishing paternity

                 or attempting to establish or modify or

                 enforcing a support order.







                                                          5706



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Mr.

                 President, if Senator Saland would answer a

                 couple of questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to Senator Montgomery?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Senator

                 Saland, it is my understanding that the bill

                 also authorizes the license of a person who is

                 no longer under a current order to pay child

                 support, that their license could also be

                 revoked.  Is that in the bill?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    When I referred

                 earlier to the Kennedy decision, that decision

                 was one in which the court was concerned with

                 what constituted arrears.  The law currently

                 requires some four months in arrears before

                 you can have the revocation of, among other

                 things, a motor vehicle license.

                            And, excuse me, I'm looking for the







                                                          5707



                 particular section of the bill as I respond to

                 you.

                            I see a reference to that on page

                 3, Section 4, and I believe you'll also find

                 reference to it over on page 5, in subsection

                 A.  And one of the things that concerned the

                 court was exactly when those arrears ran.

                            And I believe among the concerns

                 was where there was a case that had been

                 pending for quite some time and the court

                 entered an order fixing the support obligation

                 and retroactively saying that you owe arrears

                 for a period of however many months and shall

                 pay so many dollars with respect to those

                 arrears, that that particular situation be

                 distinguished, where there was already

                 arrearage in excess of four months, from a

                 situation in which there was an old

                 outstanding order that someone had chosen to

                 ignore for a period of four or more months.

                            The effort in this bill is to try

                 and in effect address the issues that were

                 raised in the Kennedy case.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Montgomery.







                                                          5708



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    If you would

                 continue to yield, Senator Saland.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Now, does

                 the bill remove the language that stated

                 essentially that the mother's refusal to sign

                 the acknowledgment would not be deemed as a

                 failure to cooperate in establishing

                 paternity?  Is that language now removed from

                 this bill?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Can I ask you to

                 repeat that, please, Senator Montgomery?

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    There was

                 language in the bill prior that -- to the

                 effect that the mother's refusal to sign the

                 acknowledgment would not be deemed a failure

                 to cooperate in establishing the paternity for

                 the child.  So if the mother refused to sign,

                 that would not be deemed failure to cooperate;

                 is that -

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Senator

                 Montgomery, I'm looking at page 28 of the







                                                          5709



                 bill, and I'm not quite sure where the -

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    On page 21

                 of the bill, Senator Saland, line 18 through

                 20, that language is removed:  "The mother's

                 refusal to sign the acknowledgment shall not

                 be deemed a failure to cooperate in

                 establishing paternity."  That language is now

                 removed, is that the case?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    When you say

                 removed, beginning at -

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    On page 21,

                 line -- I think it begins on line 18.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Oh, I'm sorry,

                 I'm looking at the wrong page.  I take that

                 back.

                            Correct, that language has been

                 removed from the bill.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    So in the

                 event that there is some doubt in the mother's

                 mind, does that mean that she is still going

                 to be sanctioned even though there's some

                 question, perhaps, in her mind?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I do not believe

                 that the section to which you refer relates to

                 public assistance benefits.  It's primarily a







                                                          5710



                 section that deals with the gathering of

                 statistics for purposes of purely accumulation

                 of data.  I do not believe that that section

                 in and of itself would be adequate in order to

                 deny any benefits.

                            I would call your attention,

                 however, to page 28, which is where I thought

                 you were going in your initial inquiry, to

                 Section 66 of the bill.  That's the section

                 which deals with the elimination of benefits

                 for somebody who fails to cooperate.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Okay, if

                 the -- if Senator Saland would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Does the

                 bill now include a sanction for the full

                 family?







                                                          5711



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, I thought I

                 had referred to that in my opening comments.

                            And that again -- I would again

                 call your attention to Section 66 of the bill.

                 It replaces the 25 percent of household grant

                 penalty for noncooperation.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    So in other

                 words, in noncooperation cases, the entire -

                 all the benefits are cut off?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    There are

                 exceptions, and those exceptions certainly

                 deal with things such as allegations of

                 domestic violence.  The bill refers to the

                 requirement that there be good cause found by

                 the agency before somebody's benefits could be

                 denied.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Senator

                 Saland -- Mr. President, if the Senator would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.







                                                          5712



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Does the

                 bill require that the counties now put in 50

                 percent of the child support passthrough, the

                 counties now -

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The passthrough

                 has been increased from $50 to $100.  There's

                 no change in whatever the existing law is.  It

                 merely increases the amount from $50 to $100.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right.

                 Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 67.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record

                 the negatives and announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Montgomery recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          5713



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1496, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5674.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1497, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5699A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward, an explanation of Calendar Number 1497

                 has been requested.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.  This bill creates a new set of

                 economic criteria for the eligibility as an

                 economic development zone which is consistent

                 with the original law's rationale that these

                 zones should be placed in an area that must be

                 characterized by pervasive poverty, high

                 unemployment, and general economic distress to

                 be eligible for the designation.

                            The additional criteria under this







                                                          5714



                 bill would include really five criteria, an

                 unemployment rate equal to or higher than the

                 state's rate, a rate of poverty for

                 individuals at least 20 percent, number of

                 households receiving public assistance is

                 15 percent -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward.  Senator Seward, excuse me just a

                 minute.

                            Senator Duane, I don't -- could you

                 hear that?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yeah, but I'm

                 focusing very sharply.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    If we

                 could have members take the conversation out

                 of the chamber.  Recognize that for each

                 minute you slow us down, it's going to extend

                 the session another minute.

                            Excuse me again for the

                 interruption, Senator Seward.  I think Senator

                 Duane should be able to hear you now.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            As I was stating, this bill adds

                 additional criteria for additional economic







                                                          5715



                 development zones to be created in the state.

                 And the criteria would include that the

                 unemployment rate would have to be higher than

                 the state rate, the rate of poverty for

                 individuals in the zone would have to be at

                 least 20 percent at the poverty rate, the

                 number of households receiving public

                 assistance would have to be at 15 percent or

                 more, that the county is considered a

                 nonmetropolitan area, and the fifth one would

                 be that no other economic development zone

                 would be located in that county.

                            But the bill creates six additional

                 zones, three of which would have to meet these

                 additional criteria.  The other three would

                 continue to have to meet the existing criteria

                 that are already in the law.  This is designed

                 to have new zones to be placed in areas that

                 for whatever reason have not been successful

                 in obtaining the EDZ designation in the past

                 but are obviously in great need.

                            Now, the economic development zone

                 program, in my estimation, and I'm sure

                 everyone here would agree, has been highly

                 successful in helping to spur economic







                                                          5716



                 development in this state.  And this

                 legislation would help extend the benefits to

                 even more areas of our state, and I think that

                 would be a very positive thing for the state

                 to proceed on.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  If

                 the sponsor would just yield to a couple of

                 questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    The Senator

                 yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I just want to

                 clarify.  So three would be in counties that

                 presently don't have economic development

                 zones now, and three could go into counties

                 that do have them and then we'll have

                 additional ones; is that correct?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    That's basically

                 it.  Three of the additional six zones created

                 under this legislation would have to meet

                 those additional criteria that I mentioned.







                                                          5717



                 The other three could go anywhere in the state

                 as long as they met the criteria that are

                 already in the law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 another question, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    The sponsor

                 indicated that it's possible that an area that

                 had trouble putting together, I guess, a board

                 or whatever, the public mass to create such a

                 an economic development zone, would now

                 perhaps be more able to do that.  But I'm

                 wondering if -- there's nothing in the law

                 that would strengthen a board or to provide

                 assistance to make a board that could really

                 do the job.  And I'm just wondering why that

                 isn't part of this as well.

                            In other words, if they couldn't do

                 it before, what is it in here that would make

                 it possible for them to put together an

                 economic development zone that could work?







                                                          5718



                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Well,

                 Mr. President, the -- I think you are -- that

                 Senator Duane is asking about something that

                 is certainly not covered under the bill in

                 terms of a community's ability to come up with

                 a successful application.

                            I think that how this bill would

                 help would be adding additional zones.  In the

                 past, we have -- I think the original bill,

                 there were 40.  And just a couple of years

                 ago, I think we added another 12.  And this

                 would continue the trend of adding more zones

                 to be created in the state.  And that alone,

                 in my estimation, does give more communities

                 of our state an opportunity to submit

                 successful applications, just from increasing

                 the number of zones that are available.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, a final question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Seward, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    My concern has to







                                                          5719



                 do, then -- it sounds as if we're lowering the

                 bar, or raising the bar -- anyway, making it

                 easier to create a zone, but that that may not

                 improve the economic climate.  Are we making

                 it easier to create a zone for places where

                 they haven't been able to get it together to

                 put together a zone in the past?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Well,

                 Mr. President, I wouldn't describe it as

                 lowering the bar, so to speak, on this,

                 because we're talking about -- in terms of

                 additional criteria, we're talking about

                 communities that have a rate of poverty of

                 20 percent, 15 percent on public assistance,

                 and unemployment rates that are higher than

                 the state average.  And so these are

                 communities that obviously are in need of

                 economic stimulation, and that's what we hope

                 to accomplish under the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5720



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 please call up Calendar Number 1481, by

                 Senator Stafford.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1481, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4680A,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number

                 1481 has been requested by Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Actually,

                 Mr. President -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr.







                                                          5721



                 President -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    You wish

                 to modify that request?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yeah, I was

                 going to spare Senator Stafford from giving an

                 explanation if he'd just like me to go right

                 to my question.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Sure.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Because I

                 actually find the bill to be quite pertinent.

                            But in the original print of the

                 bill, the Minority leaders had appointments,

                 and now, in what appears to be this final

                 draft, I don't see a Minority leader

                 appointment on this bill.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    I think that

                 is true.  I guess this goes along the lines of

                 a discussion we had the other day.  There are

                 many areas -- commissions, committees -

                 responsibilities where I think all of us would

                 like to be involved.  I know when I first got

                 here, I wanted to be in everything, and I

                 found that that really wasn't possible.

                            I think we have to be careful about

                 commissions being unwieldy.  I think we can







                                                          5722



                 overdo it with numbers.  I think this is a

                 good bipartisan approach.  It also has

                 business leaders -- not leaders, it has

                 business individuals, it has people in the

                 medical profession.  And I think we try to do

                 our best to keep it efficient.

                            I really wish everybody could be

                 involved.  Sparta didn't do too well.  Athens,

                 that was a problem.  I guess they were pure

                 democracies.  I'm for them.  I want to be in

                 them, and I want to be the president.  But

                 actually -- theoretically.  Theoretically.

                            But on a serious note, efficiency,

                 I think, really is what this boils down to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I think one of the reasons -- I agree with

                 Senator Stafford that everybody here would

                 like to be involved in as many activities as

                 they could be, and on all the committees and

                 commissions and the different types of groups

                 that we put together.

                            But one of the reasons that we

                 consolidate and we create leadership positions







                                                          5723



                 is to have the few represent the many and to

                 hopefully truncate the process and speed it

                 up.  So to that end, we have five -- we have

                 four leaders in the Legislature, and when

                 meeting with the Governor, we have a fifth

                 leader.  And it's just my opinion that we

                 don't want to ruin that process where

                 everybody is pretty much represented through

                 their leader.

                            And for that reason, I strongly

                 suggest that the Minority leaders, both

                 Assemblyman Faso in the Assembly and Senator

                 Connor right here in the Senate, had been

                 included on that bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Party vote in

                 the negative.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Affirmative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record







                                                          5724



                 the party line votes.  Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 36.  Nays,

                 23.  Party vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Goodman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I rise to ask

                 if you would be good enough to record me in

                 the negative on two bills previously passed.

                 Calendar Number 1394, passed yesterday -- I

                 realize that my vote probably cannot be

                 included on that particular bill, but I would

                 like it noted that had I been in the chamber,

                 I would have voted in the negative on that

                 bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 record will so reflect, Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I appreciate

                 that.

                            I'd also be grateful if you'd

                 record ne in the negative on 1462, passed

                 earlier today.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without







                                                          5725



                 objection -

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    1462,

                 Senator Goodman, has not passed at this point.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 would you please call up 1485, by Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1485, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5356,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Who requested

                 the explanation, Mr. President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, were you requesting the explanation

                 on Calendar Number 1485?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, I did,

                 Mr. President.







                                                          5726



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    That's

                 what I thought.

                            Senator Paterson, Senator Nozzolio,

                 has requested the explanation.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I would be glad to provide an

                 explanation to Senator Paterson.

                            This measure allows the Department

                 of Education to establish rules and

                 regulations to provide for the certification

                 of chiropractors as acupuncturists, provided

                 that those rules and regulations are not more

                 restrictive than the rules and regulations

                 provided for other professionals and entities

                 who seek licensure as acupuncturists.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I'm having trouble -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Did you

                 hear the explanation, number one, Senator

                 Paterson?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    No, I didn't,

                 but I was going to pretend that I did and go

                 right to my question.







                                                          5727



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Well, I

                 had a hard time hearing it also.

                            Please, will the members take their

                 conversations out of the chamber.  Senator

                 Volker, Senator Marcellino.

                            Assemblywoman John, we welcome your

                 presence, but please, if you have to have a

                 conversation, take it out of the chamber.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    If the Senator

                 would yield for a question.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Be glad to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, what

                 are the prerequisites to becoming an

                 acupuncturist in the state?  Not specifically,

                 but if someone is trained in a field that's

                 related, how long would it take them, let's

                 say, to create a situation where they would be

                 certified by the Department of Education to

                 become an acupuncturist?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 Senator Paterson's insightful, thorough

                 question could be answered directly by looking







                                                          5728



                 at Chapter 772 of the Laws of 1980, which

                 established the provisions for acupuncture

                 licensing, certification, training and

                 regulation within the State Education

                 Department.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    If the Senator

                 would yield for another question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 I'd be happy to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I

                 think I can vote for this legislation, but I

                 do see the Medical Society has raised some

                 sort of an objection, and I got the objection

                 by telephone.  I'm not exactly sure what it

                 is.  Can you address the Medical Society's

                 concern?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 through you, that I have not seen the specific

                 objections of the Medical Society or any other

                 group regarding this legislation.

                            But I think the answer, the essence







                                                          5729



                 of your question, if I may, that the -- there

                 are nontraditional doctors that are certified

                 acupuncturists.  You do not have to be an M.D.

                 in this state to be a certified acupuncturist.

                 That what we're saying with this provision is

                 that chiropractors, as a matter of course,

                 because of their training and background, if

                 they meet the other regulations required by

                 the State Education Department for certifying

                 this activity, that the profession of

                 chiropractor would not be excluded from

                 consideration for a license to be an

                 acupuncturist in New York State.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, I know we're supposed to address our

                 remarks through the Chair, but I'm sure

                 Mr. President won't mind if I direct this

                 solely to you, because I know you've wanted to

                 hear me say this for five years.  But you have

                 convinced me.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This







                                                          5730



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on the first active list would you please call

                 up Calendar 1389, by Senator Maltese.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1389.

                 It's on the members' first calendar, regular

                 calendar for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1389, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4372,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 14.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          5731



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on the same active list would you please call

                 up Calendar Number 1456, by Senator Breslin.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1456, by Member of the Assembly Canestrari,

                 Assembly Print 5126, an act authorizing the

                 reopening of the twenty-year retirement plan.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)







                                                          5732



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 would you please, on Senate supplemental

                 calendar, would you please call up 1468, by

                 Senator Bonacic.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1468, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3893,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I laid this bill aside for Senator Duane, who

                 seems to be out of the chamber for a moment.

                 Might we lay that aside for a couple of -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    We will lay it

                 aside temporarily, but the admonition that

                 Senator Bruno gave us in terms of people being

                 in the chamber ready to debate applies both to

                 the Majority and the Minority.

                            So I would urge all members, if







                                                          5733



                 they can, when their bills are going to be

                 called up or they wish to debate a bill, to

                 please be in the chamber.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 will be laid aside temporarily.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to motions and resolutions

                 and adopt the Resolution Calendar in its

                 entirety.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    We will

                 return to the order of motions and

                 resolutions.

                            There is a Resolution Calendar on

                 the members' desk.  The motion is to adopt the

                 Resolution Calendar.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Resolution Calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I







                                                          5734



                 believe there's a privileged resolution at the

                 desk by Senator Balboni.  If we could have the

                 title read and move for its immediate

                 adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the title of the

                 privileged resolution by Senator Balboni.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Balboni, Legislative Resolution 2045, honoring

                 Barry M. Dennis, Esquire, upon the occasion of

                 his retirement after nearly two decades of

                 dedicated service to Nassau County, July 8,

                 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 resolution is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if you could call up Senator Bonacic's bill at







                                                          5735



                 this time, Calendar Number 1468.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1468.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1468, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3893,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to order of presentation of

                 petitions, I believe we have a treat from

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes.

                 Mr. President, if we're on the presentation of

                 petitions section, I'm going to invoke a -- I

                 think it's safe to say this is a seldom-used







                                                          5736



                 device in this house.  But it is my

                 understanding, Mr. President, that this gives

                 me the opportunity to present two petitions

                 which were gathered, one I believe exclusively

                 in my district, and the other throughout

                 western New York.

                            The first is a petition that

                 relates to a bill that was in the Assembly

                 last year which is also being considered this

                 year.  And it generally relates to Bill A651F,

                 which is a bill with respect to trigger locks.

                 It relates to the unfortunate, tragic death of

                 a young boy named LaRalle Nesmith in my

                 district when he was inadvertently shot and

                 killed by another youngster.  It has about

                 4600 signatures, Mr. President.

                            I would present them to you as the

                 custodian of the Senate and for, I believe,

                 filing with Mr. Boggess, as the Secretary,

                 which I assume is what happens.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    If you'd

                 like to walk those up and present them -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'd be glad

                 to, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    -- to the







                                                          5737



                 Secretary.

                            Senator Dollinger, I'm not the

                 custodian of the Senate.  I think that's a

                 paid position, and I'm not getting paid.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    If you'd

                 like to walk that up.  And you have a second

                 petition?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I do.  I'll

                 pass these to counsel.

                            The second petition, Mr. President,

                 contains about 14,000 signatures, largely from

                 western New York, and relates to a bill that I

                 have sponsored and a position with respect to

                 the funding of Ralph Wilson Stadium,

                 improvements to the stadium in exchange for

                 lifting the NFL blackout in western New York.

                 This also relates to a piece of legislation.

                 It is addressed to the members of the New York

                 State Legislature.  And I offer this petition

                 at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Thank

                 you, Senator Dollinger.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,







                                                          5738



                 there is going to be a meeting of the Rules

                 Committee at 2:45.  There's going to be a

                 conference of the Majority at 3:00 p.m. until

                 4:00 p.m., at which time we'll resume

                 business.  But we're going to just stand at

                 ease now until at least 3 o'clock, to see if

                 any messages come up or whatever may happen

                 during this period of time so we can continue

                 with our business.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There

                 will be a meeting of the Rules Committee, a

                 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room at 2:45.  A meeting of the

                 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room, Room 332, at 2:45.

                            Session will stand at ease until

                 3:00, and at 3:00 there will be a meeting of

                 the Majority Conference in the Majority

                 Conference Room.

                            The Senate stands at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:35 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 3:03 p.m.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.







                                                          5739



                            ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 would you please recognize Senator Paterson.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:    Sena

                 tor Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 good to see you.  There will be a 3:30

                 conference -- there will be a conference of

                 the Minority in the Minority Leader's

                 Conference Room, 314, at 3:30 sharp.  3:30

                 sharp.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO:

                 Minority conference, 3:30 sharp, in Room 314.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 just a reminder that the Majority will be

                 conferencing now in the Majority Conference

                 Room, and that we will reconvene at 4:00 p.m.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 3:04 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 4:30 p.m.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senate will come to order.  I ask the members







                                                          5740



                 to find their places, staff to find their

                 places.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to reports of standing

                 committees, I believe there's a report of the

                 Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be

                 read at this time.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    We'll return to

                 the order of reports of standing committees.

                 There is a report of the Rules Committee at

                 the desk.

                            I direct the Secretary to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 5752, by the Senate

                 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

                 Insurance Law;

                            5757, by Senator Seward, an act to

                 authorize the County of Cortland;

                            5763, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            5811A, by Senator Goodman, an act

                 to amend the Real Property Tax Law;







                                                          5741



                            5823, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;

                            5831, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Criminal Procedure Law;

                            5853, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 amend the Social Services Law;

                            5871, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend Chapter 81 of the Laws of 1995;

                            5872, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend Chapter 706 of the Laws of 1996;

                            5874, by Senator Bruno, an act to

                 amend the Highway Law;

                            5876A, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 41 of the Laws

                 of 1997;

                            5894, by Senator Marcellino, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            5897, by Senator Velella, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;

                            5910, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;

                            5941, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 491 of the Laws

                 of 1995;

                            5949, by Senator Farley, an act to







                                                          5742



                 amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            5952, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

                 in relation to authorizing;

                            5955, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend the Local Finance Law;

                            5965, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act providing for the election;

                            5806, by Senator Farley, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            5738, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;

                            5739, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;

                            5795A, by Senator Morahan, an act

                 in relation to authorizing;

                            5796, by Senator Morahan, an act in

                 relation to authorizing;

                            And 5827, by Senator Breslin, an

                 act authorizing the Commissioner of Education.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the report.







                                                          5743



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the report of the Rules

                 Committee.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The Rules

                 report is accepted.  The bills are ordered

                 directly to third reading.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on the first active list, could we take up

                 Calendar 1350, by Senator Meier.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1350, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5776, an

                 act to amend the Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5744



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 believe there's some housekeeping at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Return to

                 motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On behalf of Senator Balboni,

                 on page 19 I offer the following amendments to

                 Senate Print 1530 -- I'm sorry, to Calendar

                 Number 695, Senate Print 1530, and I ask that

                 that bill retain its place.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bill will

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    On behalf of

                 Senator Hannon, Mr. President, on page 29 I

                 offer the following amendments to Calendar

                 957, Senate Print 4870, and I ask that that







                                                          5745



                 bill retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendments to Calendar Number 957 are received

                 and adopted, and bill will retain its place on

                 the Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could go to the first supplemental

                 calendar and call up Calendar Number 1473.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1473, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4135A,

                 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and

                 Rules and the Judiciary Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 on Calendar Number 1473.  All those in favor







                                                          5746



                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the

                 house.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on the same calendar, if we could call up

                 Senator Stafford's bill, Calendar Number 1492.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5747



                 1492, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5586A,

                 an act relating to constituting Chapter 57A of

                 the Consolidated Laws.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 on Calendar 1492.  All those in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the

                 house.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the







                                                          5748



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on this same calendar, Calendar Number 1496,

                 Senator Spano's bill, if we could lay it aside

                 for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            Lay it aside for the day?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 will be laid aside for the day.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could take

                 up Supplemental Calendar 56B,

                 noncontroversial.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    The Secretary







                                                          5749



                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1508, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 5752, an act to amend the Insurance Law,

                 in relation to salaries.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1509, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5757, an

                 act to authorize the County of Cortland to

                 transfer.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There's a

                 home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          5750



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1510, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5763, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to the sale of salvaged inflatable.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the same date as a

                 chapter.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1511, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print

                 5811A -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,







                                                          5751



                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1513, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5831, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to expanding.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    The Secretary

                 will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1514, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5853, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1515, Senator Saland moves to







                                                          5752



                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7699 and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1515.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            The substitution is ordered.

                            Read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1515, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

                 Assembly Print Number 7699, an act to amend

                 Chapter 81 of the Laws of 1995.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1516, Senator Saland moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,







                                                          5753



                 Assembly Bill Number 7698 and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1516.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1516, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

                 Assembly Print Number 7698, an act to amend

                 Chapter 706 of the Laws of 1996.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1517, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5874, an

                 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

                 certain bridges.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There's a







                                                          5754



                 home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1518, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5876A, an act to amend Chapter 41

                 of the Laws of 1997.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the same date as a

                 chapter of the Laws of 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          5755



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1519, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 5894, an act to amend the Environmental

                 Conservation Law, in relation to extending.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect October 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1520, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5897,

                 an act to amend the Education Law -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1521, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5910,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the regulations.







                                                          5756



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1522, Senator Bruno moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8650 and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1522.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            Read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1522, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8650, an act to amend

                 Chapter 491 of the Laws of 1995.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.







                                                          5757



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1523, by Senator Farley -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There's a

                 home rule message at the desk.

                            The bill will be laid aside.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Who laid that

                 bill aside?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson laid that bill aside, Senator Farley.

                 You might want to talk to him.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1525, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5952,

                 an act in relation to authorizing the State

                 University of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.







                                                          5758



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1526, by the Senate Committee on Rules -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1528, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5806, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to amending the Schenectady

                 Metroplex.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1529, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5738, an act to amend the Tax Law

                 and Chapter 535 of the Laws of 1987.







                                                          5759



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1529 are

                 Senators Dollinger, Gentile, Leibell, and

                 Saland.  Ayes, 55.  Nays, 4.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1530, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5739 -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1531, Senator Morahan moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8585B and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,







                                                          5760



                 1531.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1531, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8585B, an act in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1532, Senator Morahan moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8586 and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1532.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          5761



                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1532, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8586, an act in relation

                 to authorizing the Town of Haverstraw.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1533, Senator Breslin moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8692 and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1533.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The







                                                          5762



                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1533, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8692, an act authorizing

                 the Commissioner of Education.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            Excuse me, read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            SENATOR WALDON:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I laid aside Calendar Number 1523, by Senator

                 Farley, and he's explained that bill to my

                 satisfaction.  If a member of the Majority

                 would like to take it up, I'd like to take it

                 up and vote on it, speak in favor of it,

                 generally advocate it, whatever Senator Farley







                                                          5763



                 would like.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1523, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5949, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the same date.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    It's a great

                 bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill







                                                          5764



                 is passed.

                            Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Never mind.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    May I have

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 1350,

                 Mr. President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    -

                 hearing no objection, Senator Dollinger will

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Number -- 1350?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    1350.

                            Senator Gentile, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    I too ask for

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 1350.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator







                                                          5765



                 Gentile will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1350.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on the main calendar we have a supplemental

                 active list.  So if we could take up Calendar

                 Number 553.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 553, by Member of the Assembly Weprin,

                 Assembly Print Number 5937A, an act to amend

                 the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you then







                                                          5766



                 call up Calendar Number 673 and 911.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 673.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 673, by Member of the Assembly E. Sullivan,

                 Assembly Print Number 4735B, an act to amend

                 the Education Law, in relation to

                 streamlining.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will read Calendar

                 Number 911.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 911, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4393,

                 an act to amend -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            THE SECRETARY:    -- the General







                                                          5767



                 Municipal Law, in relation to the provision of

                 ambulance services.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Senator Stafford, an explanation of

                 Calendar Number 911 has been requested by

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            We are most fortunate in our area

                 to have excellent ambulance units emergency -

                 providing emergency services.  And also in

                 this county there's a very, very strong county

                 office that covers these responsibilities,

                 disaster preparedness.  And of course we're a

                 bit cognizant of how important this is with

                 the tragedy we had -- let me see now.  Time

                 passes so quickly.  What was it, last year or

                 the year before last that we had the ice

                 storm?  It was last year.  Not this past year,

                 but a year ago this past year.  There we are.

                            So, Mr. President, we have a home

                 rule request.

                            And we have really seen the county

                 organization, the county office strengthen.







                                                          5768



                 As you probably know, we were very

                 unfortunate, in some people's eyes, to have

                 the Plattsburgh Air Force Base close.  That

                 was a very, very tough blow.  On the other

                 hand, that was a facility that the Emergency

                 Services Disaster Preparedness Office was able

                 to take over.  That although it was so

                 unfortunate that we did lose the air base, we

                 were able to have this facility turned over to

                 the county, and the county has now taken it

                 over.

                            So at the present time,

                 municipalities have the option now to have

                 these contracts and not fire districts.  And

                 this is actually a fire district taking this

                 over, the county fire district.

                            And it's a bit different in our

                 county, as I say, because of the new -- really

                 the office that, as I say, has been

                 strengthened.  We have a gentleman there who

                 did a tremendous job during the disaster, and

                 he's really building what we think is going to

                 be a model for other areas.

                            And therefore, the home rule

                 request came in, and we think it's just very,







                                                          5769



                 very good for this county to be able to

                 contract with these various fire districts

                 that will be able to provide fire services and

                 ambulance service.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, are you standing?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No, I'm actually

                 looking at something.  The explanation -

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    As has been

                 pointed out, and this is very understandable,

                 although up in our area we do have a lot of

                 deer and bear -- we used to vote them all, but

                 that's changed, fortunately.  I think it's

                 better that we have -- but we're relatively

                 highly populated.  And frankly, the volunteer

                 service is getting to be a bit of a problem,

                 so these contracts are important.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                 Explanation satisfactory.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.







                                                          5770



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 believe if we could return to motions and

                 resolutions, we have one motion.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    We will

                 return to the order of motion and resolutions.

                            The Chair recognizes Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.  On page -- well, I offer the

                 following amendments to Calendar Number 1527,

                 Senate Print Number 5965, and I ask that the

                 said bill retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:

                 Amendments to Calendar Number 1527 received

                 and adopted.  The bill will retain its place

                 on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could call







                                                          5771



                 up Calendar 1530.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1530, Senator Bruno moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8698 and substitute it

                 for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1530.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The substitution

                 is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1530, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8698, an act to amend

                 the Tax Law, in relation to extending.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.







                                                          5772



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If you could

                 call up Calendar Number 1514, by Senator

                 Meier.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1514, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5853, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, the

                 Penal Law, and the Tax Law.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier, an

                 explanation has been requested by Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 this bill basically recodifies, with some

                 minor changes, existing Social Services Law in







                                                          5773



                 New York State which makes the misuse of food

                 stamps a crime.

                            There are fundamentally two changes

                 that are made in this bill.  The first was at

                 the express suggestion of the district

                 attorney's office of New York City,

                 Mr. Morgenthau's office, requesting that the

                 statute be moved from the Social Services Law

                 to the Penal Law.  And the reasoning that they

                 had was that district attorneys and the

                 criminal courts are more familiar dealing with

                 the criminal law.

                            The second thing that the bill does

                 is it changes the classifications by dollar

                 amount of the amount of food stamps involved

                 as it relates to the severity of the

                 penalties.  Fundamentally, the classification

                 system leaves intact the old system for

                 food-stamp recipients in terms of the dollar

                 amount involved.  For example, below a

                 thousand dollars remains a misdemeanor, a

                 thousand dollars and up would remain an E

                 felony.

                            But the classifications are split

                 out for middle people; in other words, an







                                                          5774



                 unscrupulous merchant or someone who would

                 traffic with regard to food stamps on the

                 black market.  And the classifications are

                 kicked up for them into a higher category at a

                 lower dollar amount.  So there's a distinction

                 made between food-stamp recipients and those

                 who create the black market in food stamps,

                 which is deemed by the D.A. in the City of New

                 York to be a problem.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 we're trying to work our way through, as you

                 know, the supplemental calendar.  And looking

                 around, there are a number of members whose

                 bills are going to be coming up that have been







                                                          5775



                 laid aside to be debated.  So again, I would

                 urge those who have bills to be debated and

                 those who wish to debate to please be in the

                 chamber so that we can proceed in an orderly

                 fashion.

                            Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could call

                 up Calendar Number 1521, by Senator LaValle.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1521, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5910,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the regulations.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

                 an explanation has been requested by Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    This bill,

                 Madam President, is born out of situations and

                 a concern by the Dental Society -- that is in

                 support of this legislation -- that there have

                 been situations where dentists have used

                 anesthesia and may not have had the kind of







                                                          5776



                 necessary training that they should have.

                            And this bill simply says that a

                 dentist that is employing conscious sedation,

                 deep sedation, must have a certificate in

                 order to use this methodology in their dental

                 office.

                            And again, this bill emanates from

                 concerns that the dentists have, is supported

                 by the Dental Society.  And myself and the

                 chairman of the Assembly Education -- Higher

                 Education Committee, Mr. Sullivan, are the

                 sponsors of this legislation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 180 days.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1511,

                 by Senator Goodman.







                                                          5777



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1511, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5811A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and

                 the Administrative Code of the City of New

                 York.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson,

                 did you request an explanation?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, I did,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 an explanation has been requested by Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, this is an important and rather

                 complex piece of legislation which I'll try to

                 clarify to the best of my ability.  It relates

                 to the question of the assessment of real

                 estate in the City of New York, and also to a

                 very important relief measure which is

                 appended to it, which would provide a tax

                 abatement and reduction with respect to co-ops

                 and condominiums in the City of New York.







                                                          5778



                            To take the last and most

                 refreshingly delightful part of this first, it

                 contemplates roughly a $160 million reduction

                 in co-op and condo taxation, to recognize the

                 fact that co-ops and condos are a class of

                 housing which have often been overtaxed.  The

                 Mayor has done a rather remarkable job,

                 despite the elimination of the commuter tax,

                 in making this cut in the co-op and condo tax,

                 which is very important in keeping the

                 economic base of the city intact.

                            Now, with regard to the assessment

                 situation, let me indicate to you in

                 broad-brush terms how this works.  There are

                 various ways of evaluating real estate, as I

                 think this house is generally aware.  One

                 relates to the question of the last sale of a

                 home in a category which determines the

                 general and broad valuation.  The second is to

                 take the profit and loss statement of that

                 housing and to use that for some sort of

                 projection of the potential future income of

                 that piece of property.

                            This bill essentially goes to the

                 use of the profit and loss information, which







                                                          5779



                 is believed by both the city and the Real

                 Estate Board of New York and a great number of

                 other experts to be a fairer method of

                 valuation of the real estate in New York City.

                            And I believe that in the

                 utilization of this, we come up with a variety

                 of numbers for the various classes of property

                 in New York.  As is generally known, based on

                 past experience, I'm sure, the Class 1

                 properties in New York are the small

                 homeowners arrayed in the -- around the city.

                 Class 2 are the co-ops and condos.  Classes 3

                 and 4 relate to commercial and utility

                 properties in the City of New York.

                            So what this seeks to do, once

                 again, is to place these in juxtaposition and

                 in proper proportion, and in doing so will

                 come up with the fairest possible approach to

                 the property taxes to be levied within the

                 city, based upon what's believed to be the

                 most appropriate assessment technique.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam







                                                          5780



                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Madam President,

                 I have an amendment at the desk.  And I ask

                 that it be called up, waive its reading, and

                 that I explain.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, we'll

                 review the amendment at this time.  Thank you.

                            Senator, the reading will be -- and

                 explaining will be waived.  The amendment is

                 ruled to be germane.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  On the amendment.

                            As Senator Goodman explained, there

                 are two main features -- three, actually -- to

                 his bill.  And one feature would eliminate the

                 comparability grounds, or, as they call it,

                 the sales grounds for challenging an

                 assessment in New York City and Nassau County.

                            We saw this bill standing alone

                 last year, and there were some 22 votes

                 against it, including four -- three or four

                 Republicans.  The concern with that provision

                 of the bill was that it would result in some

                 inequities in assessments and would open the







                                                          5781



                 door -- and would actually make challenging an

                 assessment a very expensive and difficult

                 proposition, because people in effect would

                 have to use the equalization method.  That

                 would certainly require lawyers in the

                 certiorari proceeding.  Not a problem for

                 large commercial property holders, but there's

                 a category that would be covered by it of

                 cooperative and condominium large buildings

                 that have been somewhat successful.  I know in

                 my own district, on Sunday I spoke with the

                 head of a co-op board where the co-op had had

                 their assessment lowered by $900,000.  This

                 particular person said to me, "Senator, the

                 abatement provision" -- the other provision of

                 Senator Goodman's bill -- "continuing the

                 abatement provision puts a couple hundred

                 dollars in the pocket of our cooperators, but

                 they saved a lot more money, a lot more money

                 by the co-op having the ability to get that

                 assessment lowered by $900,000," using the

                 comparability sales analysis to challenge

                 their assessment.

                            My amendment would provide that the

                 existing method of challenging an assessment







                                                          5782



                 be continued -- as opposed to Senator

                 Goodman's bill, which would eliminate it -

                 and that the abatement provision be extended.

                 That's the amendment.  It's very simple.  It

                 would continue the abatement program for the

                 co-ops and condos, and it would -- the

                 amendment, as it says, would continue -- would

                 make sure that the comparability method of

                 challenging an assessment be continued and

                 applied to property in those classes in New

                 York City and Nassau County.

                            Madam President, I think this is

                 the best way to ensure that our cooperative

                 and condominium-owning residents receive fair

                 treatment, receive a full economic benefit of

                 abatements, as well as the ability to ensure

                 that their assessments are fair and equitable

                 because comparable properties have the same

                 level of assessment.

                            So I urge my amendment be adopted.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the amendment.  All those in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Party vote in

                 the affirmative.







                                                          5783



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Party vote in

                 the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 23.  Nays,

                 36.  Party vote.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 defeated.

                            On the bill, the Secretary will

                 read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Goodman will yield for a

                 question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 do you yield to a question from Senator

                 Paterson?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator

                 Goodman, if the sales of related properties

                 are not allowed in the proceeding, then that







                                                          5784



                 would leave only two other solutions for a

                 person seeking action in a certiorari

                 proceeding.  One would be the equalization

                 method, which, as Senator Connor pointed out,

                 would incur great expense and would need a

                 specific type of legal advice not really

                 available to small tenants and commercial

                 property owners.  The other is a procedure

                 that's not even really used in New York City.

                            And so my question to Senator

                 Goodman is, what is the relief for someone who

                 is disputing what would be an inequity, other

                 than the one that is basically being removed

                 for New York City in this bill?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, let me

                 try to respond to this as lucidly as I can

                 with a stock market analogy.

                            One could argue, with some degree

                 of justification, that the price of a stock,

                 what a stock is worth, is represented by its

                 last sale in the market.  On the other hand,

                 one could also argue that what a stock is

                 worth is reflected in its earning statement,

                 which can be projected in various ways to

                 determine the future prospects of the







                                                          5785



                 corporation.

                            Similarly, with regard to

                 buildings, it seems to me you could argue that

                 this building valuation question, the

                 so-called assessment of a piece of real

                 estate, could be argued based upon the

                 utilization of a recent sale or the last sale,

                 projecting that across the entire class, as

                 opposed to taking the profit and loss

                 statements of the buildings that are under

                 consideration for specific equalization and

                 evaluation and using that profit and loss as

                 the basis for that evaluation.

                            It's my judgment, and that of the

                 Real Estate Board of New York, which speaks

                 for realty owners generally, that the

                 preferable method is the one that I've

                 indicated.  And that's why the city has sought

                 to shift over into that method.  I happen

                 personally to agree with their thinking, and I

                 can tell you that the only people I know of

                 who are in favor of the retention of this at

                 the moment are the certiorari lawyers.

                            What is a certiorari lawyer?  It's

                 a specialist whose sole income is earned from







                                                          5786



                 an attempt to downgrade the valuation put on a

                 building on behalf of a client, in order to

                 obtain a reduction of the real estate tax.

                 And there's a contingency fee charged by such

                 certiorari lawyers.  They take a percentage of

                 the reduction for their fee.

                            Now, I think that the fact that the

                 certiorari lawyers are the only ones in

                 support of this gives us sort of a commonsense

                 measure of the fact this is not necessarily in

                 the best interests of real estate as a whole.

                 And I would respectfully suggest your premise

                 is not quite accurate when you say that an

                 individual is less likely to get an adjustment

                 in payment under this system that the city

                 proposes as opposed to the other.

                            Now, with regard to the splendid

                 piece of work that's been done by the Mayor

                 and his budget director and his tax officials

                 in making available the reduction and, in

                 effect, the subsidization of co-op and condo

                 taxes, I think this is a very significant

                 thing which should be emphasized.  It's

                 generally known and has been for some time

                 that co-ops and condos get the short end of







                                                          5787



                 the stick in property taxation in New York

                 City.  Basically, the co-ops and condos are in

                 such a condition that they are often

                 disadvantaged to the advantage of the one- and

                 two-family homeowners, for the simple reason

                 that, as Abraham Lincoln said, "I favor the

                 common man because there are so many more of

                 them."  You favor the normal one- or

                 two-family homes because there are so many

                 more of them, and that's the basis on which

                 they've managed over the years to get a

                 disproportionate relief in terms of real

                 estate taxes.

                            So that I think these things

                 suggest generally the correctness of the

                 city's approach.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  On the bill.

                            What's very disappointing is that

                 two basically unrelated issues are addressed

                 by this piece of legislation.  They're tied

                 together.  I'm certainly in favor of the first

                 part, the co-op/condo conversion part of the

                 legislation.







                                                          5788



                            The second part of the bill, I'd

                 like to turn Senator Goodman's attention to a

                 June 1998 decision in a case involving

                 Saratoga Racing, Incorporated, versus

                 Williams.  While the court decision does not

                 in any way affect the issues that are being

                 discussed in this particular bill, nonetheless

                 there is dicta that basically states that the

                 best evidence that would establish

                 equalization would come really from an

                 assessment of property as it was disposed

                 between a buyer and a seller.  Meaning exactly

                 what that bill eliminates would actually cure

                 the situation in its best form.

                            These were certainly the

                 expectations of those who would have been the

                 recipients, those state residents who would

                 have benefited from our 1997 Tax Reform Act

                 when it was first included, but it is now

                 denied in New York City.

                            While I see the overwhelming merits

                 in a lot of this legislation, I would just

                 like to caution all of us that these types of

                 situations where we put these issues together

                 make it very difficult for some of us to reach







                                                          5789



                 an informed decision.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

                 why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I actually had

                 some questions as well, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 will you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Will you

                 withdraw the roll call, Madam President?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, Senator

                 Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    As a point of

                 order, perhaps the Senator would prefer to

                 explain his vote.  I'm not certain what your

                 desire is, but we normally do not interrupt a

                 roll call unless you wish to withdraw -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, do

                 you wish to withdraw the roll call in order to







                                                          5790



                 ask a question?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I have no

                 objection, if that's the Senator's wish, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the roll call is withdrawn.

                            Senator Duane, you may proceed with

                 a question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you very

                 much, Madam President.  And thank you to the

                 sponsor.

                            I was hoping that the sponsor could

                 comment on the consequences of removing the

                 ability to challenge an assessment during a

                 downturn in the real estate market in New York

                 City.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I don't know on

                 what you premise your question, but there's no

                 diminution of the right to challenge or to

                 bring a certiorari proceeding in this bill

                 that I'm aware of.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President,

                 through you.







                                                          5791



                            More specifically, for a large

                 property owner to not be able to use

                 assessments of surrounding properties, whether

                 or not that would -- you believe that would be

                 a negative situation for a property owner in a

                 market downturn, in a real estate market

                 downturn.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I think,

                 Senator, your question reveals that I may have

                 not have been sufficiently explicit in my

                 explanation.  I tried to make it clear to you

                 that what we're dealing with here is a

                 last-sale concept versus a

                 profit-and-loss-statement concept in the

                 valuation.  This is what is known as the

                 assessment.  And your question does not, I

                 think, reveal your awareness of the

                 distinction that I have just made.

                            The city's approach to this will

                 remove -- will alter the use of the last sale

                 as the principal criterion and substitute

                 therefore the use of the profit and loss

                 statement, which goes to the question of the

                 profitability of a given building, not just at

                 this moment but in the future as well.







                                                          5792



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    As I understand

                 it, presently, though it would seem at first

                 blush that while the market is doing -- the

                 real estate market is doing well -- which

                 thankfully, thanks to our hard work, it is,

                 particularly in Manhattan -- that it would

                 seem that that would in fact increase revenues

                 for the City of New York, because the

                 assessments of surrounding properties would be

                 going up.  So logic would dictate that in fact

                 that would mean more revenue for the city.

                            However, what ends up happening,

                 since you are taxed at a percentage of the

                 assessment -- of which it's far too

                 complicated to really go through how that

                 percentage is arrived at, but if you use that

                 benchmark of surrounding properties, in fact

                 properties end up paying a less high







                                                          5793



                 percentage towards that assessment, which

                 leads properties surrounding it to say, Me

                 too, me too, we also should be paying a less

                 percent.

                            Is that not your reading of what

                 happens under the system where you can use the

                 surrounding properties?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No, I think

                 there's a misperception here.  What happens in

                 a rising market, obviously the last sale

                 criterion is one which is going to rise as

                 sales prices increase the property.

                            In a rising market, by the same

                 token, there is the likelihood that there are

                 increased rentals, which in turn generate

                 richer profits to the building, and those

                 profits are reflected in the profit and loss

                 statements of the building, and they in turn

                 reflect a higher value.  So in both instances,

                 the fluctuations in the market are reflected

                 in the assessment.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Perhaps, then,







                                                          5794



                 I'm not quite understanding what in reality

                 will be happening.

                            Even -- from what you're saying, it

                 would lead me to believe that even more

                 properties would dispute their assessment with

                 the argument that they believe that they

                 should be paying a lower percentage of their

                 assessment, as do buildings which have already

                 gone through that process.  And therefore, the

                 city could potentially lose revenue that way.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    What is your

                 question, Senator?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Well, that -- my

                 question is, is that we are -- it seems to me

                 that -

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Your question

                 is who invented this nutsy set of ground

                 rules, is that a fair -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    That's an

                 excellent question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, do

                 you have a question?  You are authorized to

                 ask a question, sir.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President,

                 though, I'm going to refuse to yield to my







                                                          5795



                 colleague's question on that, because it's too

                 complicated.  But -- but my sort of more -

                 and I don't know who invented it.

                            But I guess the question I wanted

                 to ask is, are we not in a conundrum having to

                 do with -- a conundrum having to do with

                 balancing the needs of the city being able to

                 count on a consistent revenue stream versus

                 the ability of property owners to have a

                 broader range of options when it comes to

                 assessing -- to being assessed for property

                 taxes?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    May I attempt

                 to penetrate the complexities of this with a

                 statement that I think you will agree too?

                            PIn response to your question, you

                 and I share a concern for the well-being of

                 tenants and the owners of co-ops and condos,

                 I'm sure.  What this does, as a totality of

                 the piece of legislation, is to grant a

                 special preferment to the owners of co-ops and

                 condos by reason of a $160 million tax

                 subsidization which the city is willing to

                 provide, even though it's under increased

                 budgetary pressure due to the revocation of







                                                          5796



                 the commuter tax.

                            Frankly, when that tax was

                 repealed, I was greatly concerned that it

                 would crowd out this benefit to co-ops and

                 condo owners, both of whom populate our

                 districts in larger than normal proportions

                 relative to the rest of the city.

                            And I can only say to you that this

                 is a good deal for them, and that the way this

                 bill balances out because of that, the

                 disadvantages they unfortunately suffer in

                 terms of their shares versus Classes 1 and 3

                 and 4, are not -- are more than canceled out

                 and overweighted by the benefit in the tax

                 reduction which they enjoy as owners of co-ops

                 and condos.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    It's always a

                 pleasure to have a late-afternoon bit of

                 exercise at your discretion, Senator.  Of

                 course I will yield.







                                                          5797



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Assuming that is

                 a yield, Senator Duane, you may proceed with a

                 question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you very

                 much.  And I need to preface this by saying my

                 seven years on the New York City Council did

                 not nearly prepare me for the complexities of

                 the issues of co-op and condo taxation and the

                 different class shares.

                            But that said, I think that the

                 Senator and I share the concern of equalizing

                 the tax burden on Class 1 and Class 2

                 properties.  And how it is that we arrive at

                 what is the best way to do that, keeping in

                 mind the importance of maintaining a steady

                 stream of revenue to the City of New York -- I

                 think I will forgo the question I was going to

                 pose and instead make this be the -- my

                 statement on the bill and indicate that though

                 it's a bit of a tough call, that I will be

                 voting yes on this.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President.  If Senator Goodman would yield for







                                                          5798



                 one last question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, Senator,

                 with pleasure.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Goodman.

                            Go ahead, Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I

                 know we may have gone over this before, but I

                 just want to ask one more time.  If this

                 method of value, if this tax sales method is

                 so bad, then why aren't we doing it statewide?

                 Why are we just removing New York City and

                 Nassau County from the process and leaving the

                 rest of the state under the protections that

                 existed from our 1997 tax act?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, I

                 didn't suggest that this method was so bad.

                 What I think you must understand is that in

                 the way that the city's real estate taxation

                 scheme works, you have these four classes of

                 real estate, each one of which is assessed in

                 accordance with a capped formula.

                            In this situation, it is quite







                                                          5799



                 manifest that over the years, the co-op and

                 condo and, indeed, the high-rise apartment

                 buildings which constitute Class 2 have

                 consistently taken a back seat, by virtue of

                 pure political pressure and understandable

                 weight of numbers in the determination of how

                 these formulas would be applied.

                            In plain language, the people in

                 the city council who reach these conclusions

                 are more responsive to the one- and two-family

                 homeowners because there are so many more of

                 them and at election time, needless to say,

                 they cast a great many more votes than the

                 poor folks who live in high-rise buildings who

                 are a small percentage of that total.

                            So that what has happened over the

                 years is that you have a disadvantaged

                 group -- mainly the one- and two-families,

                 whom I've been battling for a number of years,

                 since my population in my district obviously

                 is very much more heavily populated with that

                 class of renter and homeowner -- or apartment

                 dweller, I should say.  And the result is that

                 what we have here is a very specific -- is the

                 Bagel King adding anything to your question?







                                                          5800



                            Marty, be my guest.  Do you wish

                 to -

                            So why don't I just cut it off

                 there and say that I think you should, as one

                 who also represents apartment dwellers, be

                 very well pleased with this, and we shouldn't

                 expend too much energy looking a gift horse in

                 the mouth.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 2.  Senators Breslin and Dollinger recorded in

                 the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1522.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5801



                 1522, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8650, an act to amend Chapter 491 of

                 the Laws of 1995.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

                 Senator Duane has asked for an explanation.

                            Senator Spano, excuse me.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Chapter 491 of the Laws of 1995

                 that I sponsored allowed for the creation of

                 the establishment of an alternative dispute

                 resolution program to handle workers'

                 compensation claims.  This statute is due to

                 expire December 31, 2000.  What this bill does

                 is to extend that statute for five years,

                 through December 31, 2005.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    If the sponsor

                 would yield for a couple of questions.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Spano,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,







                                                          5802



                 Senator.

                            Go ahead, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            Does this preclude a worker being

                 able to go to civil court to address their

                 concerns, their grievance?

                            SENATOR SPANO:    This would not

                 take the right of any employee in the state

                 from exercising their right to go to court and

                 civil court, at all, Senator Duane.  All this

                 would do is give the opportunity to opt into

                 the alternative dispute resolution to deal

                 with the claim of workers' compensation.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And one last

                 question, through you, Madam President.

                            That would be with the agreement of

                 both parties?

                            SENATOR SPANO:    That would be

                 with the agreement of the union, subject to

                 the collective bargaining agreement that they

                 would negotiate.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.







                                                          5803



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1295,

                 on the first active list, by Senator Marchi.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1295, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5589, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 courses of instruction.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Who requested the

                 explanation?  Senator Paterson, did you

                 request the explanation, sir?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, I did,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi,

                 an explanation has been requested by Senator







                                                          5804



                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Since I share a

                 birthday with him, I will always honor that

                 request.  But it may be the end of the happy

                 birthday.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I hope not.

                            Madam President, under Section 801

                 of the Education Law of the State of New York,

                 there is a provision that the Board of Regents

                 and the State Education Department provide for

                 the, quote, courses of instruction in

                 patriotism and citizenship in certain historic

                 documents.  That's within quotation marks,

                 "courses of instruction in patriotism and

                 citizenship in certain historic documents."

                 And among those documents that are listed,

                 Madam President, in Section 801 are the

                 Declaration of Independence and the New York

                 State Constitution.

                            It provides also for the provision

                 by the Board of Regents of the State of New

                 York to provide the instructional guidance in

                 addressing those items that are part of our

                 state treasury of historical documents,







                                                          5805



                 seminal documents on the jurisprudence and

                 rights of the people of this state.

                            I refer now to the Declaration of

                 Independence, which is cited specifically.

                 I'm not -- this is not a proposal, these are

                 direct quotes from the Declaration of

                 Independence.  As many of you know, the

                 Declaration of Independence, in New York State

                 Education Law, would specifically -- and I'm

                 recommending that it specifically include that

                 language in the declaration that reads "We

                 hold these truths to be self-evident; that all

                 men are created equal" -- and the words at

                 that time, in 1776, used it in its general

                 sense of all human beings are created equal -

                 "that they are endowed by their creator with

                 certain unalienable rights; that among these

                 are life, liberty, and the pursuit of

                 happiness."

                            This amendment to the bill would

                 say to take these words, which are taken from

                 the Declaration of Independence specifically,

                 and to highlight them and to grant the

                 instruction, which the Board of Regents then

                 held a responsibility for doing.  The language







                                                          5806



                 of this bill would also mandate emphasis by

                 the teachers in the prescribed courses of

                 instruction on the phrases from the

                 Declaration of Independence which say

                 "appealing to the Supreme Judge of the

                 world" -- "Supreme Judge," meaning someone

                 that you have to answer to -- and "reliance on

                 the protection of Divine Providence."

                            We have in this implicitly a

                 theistic consideration in attributing to the

                 Creator the fact that we all enjoy, or should

                 enjoy, certain unalienable rights; among

                 these, life, liberty and the pursuit of

                 happiness.

                            In the preamble of the State

                 Constitution, which is also cited in Section

                 801 of the Education Law, the citation in the

                 preamble reads as follows:  "We, the people of

                 the State of New York, grateful to Almighty

                 God."  They didn't say the president or

                 anybody else, "to Almighty God."  This is the

                 preamble to the Constitution of the State of

                 New York today.  And tomorrow, unless it is

                 amended out.  And no one has introduced a bill

                 to amend that out.







                                                          5807



                            "We, the people of the State of New

                 York, grateful to Almighty God for our

                 freedom, in order to secure its blessings, do

                 establish this Constitution."  And that also

                 would be highlighted.

                            I made a request to the Board of

                 Regents and to the State Education Department

                 for just what guidance was provided to

                 instructional personnel, which they suggested

                 begin at the age of 8 and upward.  And they

                 sent me a lot of material.  Because in

                 considering the Constitution of the State of

                 New York, they also would describe the

                 agencies that form government -- the Senate,

                 the Assembly, the Governor, and the people who

                 have it operate -- and the relationships and

                 certain considerations that be -- that ought

                 to be examined.

                            At some point, Madam President, it

                 was also suggested that, in addition to that,

                 that there be added to it instruction on

                 subjects such as the Holocaust, slavery, and

                 the famine in Ireland.  This is the famine in

                 the 1840s in Ireland.

                            Nowhere, nowhere in this







                                                          5808



                 instruction in the material that was provided

                 to the schools of this state is any reference

                 made to the Creator, to the Divine Judge of

                 the world, as the Declaration of Independence

                 cited.  And it is suggested in this document,

                 in this bill that we do this.

                            I had many responses from around

                 the country, from many clergymen, from all

                 kinds of people, from citizens who felt -- on

                 an interdenominational basis, that were

                 supportive of this sentiment.  I had a letter

                 just -- the most recent one is from the Most

                 Reverend Henry J. Mansell, the bishop of

                 Buffalo.

                            "Dear Senator Marchi:  I write in

                 support of your bill requiring the

                 highlighting of the words "Creator" and

                 "Supreme Judge" in the Declaration of

                 Independence and in the New York State

                 Constitution, as required to be taught in New

                 York State school courses on patriotism.

                            "We approach the end of the century

                 that has seen the most rapid progress in

                 science and technology in history.  It has

                 also been the most murderous and barbarous in







                                                          5809



                 history, with tens of millions of people

                 killed at the hands of Godless ideologies.

                            "In our own country, the clouds of

                 secularism and materialism hover dangerously

                 over us.  We are in need of renewed

                 enlightenment as to our roots, expressed in

                 the fundamental documents of the country.  It

                 is critically important as well that we

                 promote an acute awareness of our

                 accountability before God as Creator and

                 Supreme Judge.

                            "Once again, Senator Marchi, I am

                 deeply grateful for your sensitivity," and so

                 forth, some complimentary remarks that I

                 treasure.  But all supportive of this feeling.

                            I didn't want to prescribe a

                 prayer.  I didn't want to instruct that a

                 prayer be of a nondenominational nature or a

                 prayer that was nonsectarian.  I was appealing

                 to the very provisions that are in this law,

                 801 of the Education Law, and to the seminal

                 documents that sustain this country.

                            I immediately had a Staten Islander

                 who objected, and he was the chairman of the

                 Atheists of America.  He's entitled to express







                                                          5810



                 his views, and I certainly wouldn't deny him

                 that right.  God does believe in him, however,

                 so I think things will work out in the final

                 analysis.

                            I pick up a coin, and I see "In God

                 we trust."  We give the Pledge of Allegiance,

                 "under God," we say.  Are these vacuous words?

                 Do they mean nothing at all?  Is this all

                 make-believe?  It has a specific impact.

                            And I engaged in numerous programs,

                 some of which will be televised in July and

                 August by various elements of media, radio and

                 television.  And in virtually all cases, even

                 with critical analysis, they expressed a great

                 deal of interest.

                            In the state of New Jersey, the

                 assembly passed a bill that prescribes, among

                 other things, a measure -- this bill requires

                 principals and teachers of public schools of

                 conduct -- this is the Assembly of the State

                 of New Jersey, to conduct the following oral

                 recitation from the Declaration of

                 Independence before the opening of each school

                 day:  "We hold these truths to be

                 self-evident; that all men are created equal;







                                                          5811



                 that they are endowed by their creator with

                 certain unalienable rights; that among these

                 are life, liberty, and the pursuit of

                 happiness; that to secure these rights,

                 governments are instituted among men, deriving

                 their just powers from the consent of the

                 governed."  This bill takes effect

                 immediately.

                            I don't know what the final vote on

                 it was, but it was very heavily in favor.  And

                 it came out of the standing committee

                 unanimously, unanimously, both parties.  There

                 was no partisan division on it.  I understand

                 that it is in progress in the senate and that

                 the governor expects to sign it.  So it's not

                 an idea that, after taking on life, did not

                 make an impact and an appeal on others.

                            So I would suggest, Madam

                 President, that we give this serious

                 consideration.  I'm not asking for a prayer.

                 I'm not asking for a moment of reflection.

                 I'm just asking for a look and consideration

                 at those seminal documents and those seminal

                 sentiments that sustain this nation.

                            And I submit that if we do these







                                                          5812



                 things, it will not be to the damage of this

                 country.  It will not be to the damage or

                 detriment of the people of this state.  And it

                 certainly should not offend anyone where the

                 sentiment of God as a spirit permeates

                 virtually every theistic portion of our

                 population, regardless of what their term

                 is -- "Allah," "God," whatever.

                            But this -- the fact that this

                 profession of faith in a Supreme Being and a

                 Supreme Judge, which means also an accounting,

                 is also -- constitutes as well a positive

                 step, takes a positive step in developing a

                 more wholesome attitude.  And in the

                 context -- you know, we talk about values and

                 whose values -- mine, yours, or somebody

                 else's.  But the fact that it -- the fact that

                 we acknowledge the existence of Almighty

                 God -- God bless America, and our

                 responsibilities under it -- certainly, I

                 think, will have a beneficial effect in this

                 country and in this state in particular, where

                 it applies.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Madam







                                                          5813



                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Well, I was

                 actually going to ask Senator Marchi to yield

                 for a question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi,

                 do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, there

                 are many times when we have passed legislation

                 to promote action for which law has already

                 sustained.  And in this particular case, we

                 already command, through our social studies

                 syllabus, through our history requirements,

                 through our specific references to these same

                 seminal documents, that teachers teach these

                 particular documents.

                            But what we often do in law-making,

                 what we often try to accomplish is to focus

                 specific attention on a situation that needs a

                 certain redress.  And I would imagine, from

                 the explanation, that that's what Senator

                 Marchi is trying to do today.







                                                          5814



                            My question is, is there something

                 that is not being taught, is there a fashion

                 in which these documents and certainly the

                 references therein, the spiritual references,

                 are not being taught that compels the Senator

                 to create an addendum to our existing law and

                 to focus us on teaching these specific

                 references?

                            Was that clear, Senator?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, the

                 question is clear, Senator.

                            And in fairness, I want to respond

                 that I'm not talking about whatever the

                 frailties of our own system is and how we

                 behold our fellow man.  Meaning men and women,

                 to be politically correct.

                            Are we animals?  Are we the highest

                 created level of animals?  Or are we something

                 more?  Why do we invoke God's blessing unless

                 there is something unique and special about

                 each and every individual?  Why do we speak of

                 loving our neighbor?  Because we are not

                 animals.  We have physical beings, but we are

                 individuals with immortal souls, with a

                 spirit, a conscience, an awareness of right







                                                          5815



                 and wrong.  The natural law, you don't have to

                 go back to Christians and Jews and Islamics or

                 anybody else, going back to -- going back to

                 our -- to the ancient Greeks.  We are

                 something special, each and every one of us.

                 Each and every one of us.  And we have these

                 responsibilities.

                            Are we aware of that?  What I'm

                 saying here is are we -- is there something

                 that's failing?  Yes.  It would seem to me

                 that we are not reinforcing the respect that

                 we should have for each other and for our

                 fellow human beings.  And because they are

                 special, they are God's children.  They're not

                 just a higher order of animals.

                            So I don't like to see it steeped

                 in a secularism that has no place when we

                 equate it to the dignity that belongs to each

                 and every individual.  Where does dignity come

                 from?  It doesn't come from the fact that we

                 developed and we -- through a process of

                 evolution to a physical essence that now has

                 dignity.

                            What is dignity?  How do you

                 definite dignity?  Dignity is defined in terms







                                                          5816



                 of personality, of a person created in a

                 divine image, of a person having a supreme

                 responsibility.  And we have that

                 responsibility.  It's not the responsibility

                 that might makes right.  We make an awful lot

                 of mistakes, and we try to help each other

                 correct them.  But unless we come down to the

                 fundamentals of our existence and the views

                 with which we hold other individuals as

                 precious, very, very precious -- because they

                 are something special.  Because they are

                 created in a divine image.

                            So I can't answer your question

                 adequately in the sense that is there a

                 specific failing.  We are not reinforcing

                 that -- those very considerations that are

                 basic to a decent civilization.

                            Our response that was critiqued,

                 pro and con -- I'm not pro-Clinton.  To the

                 contrary, perhaps, on many matters of policy.

                 But when the slaughter was taking place, many

                 people in the free world were offended.  And

                 when we read of the atrocities that were being

                 committed, we were offended.  Can we respond

                 to them all?  No, I guess we can't.  But we







                                                          5817



                 have to make a better effort.

                            But I think, basic to all that,

                 laws are not going to do it.  They can help.

                 They can help.  They're helpful guidance, and

                 they're the best that we can bestow.  But it

                 has to come from what we conceive and what we

                 believe to be a human being.  And that has no

                 reference to the condition of that human

                 being.

                            And that's why it's a very

                 difficult question.  It's not an unfair

                 question, Senator, I'm not suggesting that at

                 all.  But I'm looking for a way to strengthen

                 and reinforce and give more life.  And I

                 believe that if we -- these things which we

                 say automatically -- otherwise, why have it in

                 our preamble?  Might as well take it out.  It

                 has no place.  It plays no useful role.  A

                 nice role, or a feel-good role, maybe, I don't

                 know.

                            But if this has substance, it does

                 play a role.  And it should play a role in

                 every conscious moment of our lives, that we

                 are children of God.  And in that which was

                 the pronunciation unanimously of the







                                                          5818



                 Declaration of Independence -- and they had

                 their faults, too -- we begin to see the

                 formation of a better view and a better

                 understanding.

                            And we had to go through a Civil

                 War.  And that's why the Board of Regents

                 wanted slavery, the circumstances that

                 undergirded slavery included in some of the

                 companion instructional material that was to

                 be studied by generations of Americans.

                            But we go back to the centrality of

                 the dignity of the human being and the

                 importance of the seminal documents I think is

                 so overwhelming that it's almost a res ipsa

                 loquitur in terms of its desirability as a

                 matter of Board of Regents instructional

                 effort to give it a highlight in the society

                 in which we live in.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Marchi would yield for

                 another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes.







                                                          5819



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Paterson, with another question.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, in many ways what Senator Marchi is

                 trying to accomplish is in -- very much in the

                 same spirit as what our forefathers were

                 intending when they wrote the seminal

                 documents to which Senator Marchi refers.

                 That many of the founding fathers of this

                 country were deists, and they had a lot of

                 kind of spiritual beliefs that they

                 interpreted metaphysically.

                            Now, I understand your admonition

                 to us yesterday about public demonstrations.

                 And I won't engage in one.  But if I were to

                 take out a dollar, which I couldn't -- neither

                 could any of my colleagues at this point in

                 the process.  But if I were to do that,

                 apparently you can see on a dollar a point at

                 which you see what appears to be a garden, and

                 it's in front of a desert.  It's part of a

                 picture on a $1 bill.  And that was supposed

                 to represent the pilgrimage from the desert

                 into the garden of the New World.  Which is,

                 of course, what we now know as America.







                                                          5820



                            That even the year of the

                 Declaration of Independence, 1776, if you took

                 those numbers and added them up, some of the

                 formulators took note that it added up to the

                 age 21, which was the age of majority, as was

                 interpreted through the Constitution.

                            So there was a lot of this type of

                 feeling and sentiment about fundamental rights

                 and fundamental humanistic law running through

                 our major documents.

                            Senator Marchi makes a point, and

                 I'd like to ask him -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well, I was going

                 to ask if there was a question, since I

                 believe Senator Paterson asked for the floor

                 to ask one.  But I understand he's getting

                 there, so I'll sit back down.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson,

                 there is a question forthcoming?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Madam

                 President, there is a question coming.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Forthcoming,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Forthcoming.







                                                          5821



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Soon.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    In the future.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    The question

                 would be, to Senator Marchi -- unless Madam

                 President would like to answer the question -

                 with respect to the errors of history to which

                 Senator Marchi referred, we have a Declaration

                 of Independence, and he wants -- Senator

                 Marchi would like to turn our attention to the

                 specific reference of "all men are created

                 equal."  And yet another one of the documents,

                 the United States Constitution, still to this

                 day contains a provision -- Article 4, Section

                 2, Clause 3 -- which is the provision that

                 allows for the recovery of runaway slaves.

                            So if we're going to be teaching

                 these documents, I would think that it would

                 be an enhancement to point out that that

                 article, which still exists in the

                 Constitution today, is completely antithetical

                 to what's represented in the Declaration of

                 Independence.  And I wanted to know if Senator

                 Marchi thought that that should be part of the

                 expanded teaching that he's offering in this







                                                          5822



                 bill.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, there were

                 a lot of -- that is perhaps one of the

                 smallest of what in my religion is called

                 venial sins today, of runaway slaves.

                            The crude bargaining of -- when it

                 came down to representation in the Congress of

                 the United States -- not in the House of -

                 not in the Senate, but in the House itself,

                 they said "We have to count all our people."

                 "Yeah, but you have slaves, and you're

                 counting them as whole people, and you treat

                 them as chattels."  So they bargained it out.

                 So you were three-fourths of a person.  Or

                 two-thirds.  I forget what the formulation

                 was.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Three-fifths.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    So -- well, I

                 had a friend of mine said, "I like Patrick

                 Henry's definition of freedom much better than

                 yours."  I forget what I had taken, because I

                 have a reputation for being a fairly open sort

                 of a guy.  I said, "Do you realize that

                 Patrick Henry was a slave owner?"

                            Jefferson sometimes has been







                                                          5823



                 belabored because he owned slaves.  Washington

                 emancipated his slaves.  But the real

                 Jefferson manifested himself in the Northwest

                 Ordinance, and he made sure that slavery was

                 not permitted in all those states that all the

                 way up to Minnesota were developed.

                            Are there failings today?  Yes,

                 there are, Senator.  There are.  And where

                 there are, they don't measure up to the Albert

                 Schweitzers or the Mother Teresas or the

                 people who believe, believe, that there's a

                 long way to go.  And we don't stop trying.

                 And we don't go up and say, well, we're nice

                 people and everybody else isn't.  We try to be

                 nice, and we try to be better.  And that's our

                 objective.

                            But we do that because we are

                 children of God.  We know there's a right.  We

                 know there's a wrong.  We don't stand in

                 judgment, you're wrong or you're right.

                 Because we -- in those very same documents,

                 they mention that God is the lawgiver.  And

                 that's why I hesitate ever to say, "Oh, you're

                 absolutely wrong," even morally.  That has to

                 be decided Upstairs.  Certainly not in our







                                                          5824



                 realm.

                            But in our own Constitution in this

                 state, Senator, we have the -- "We, the people

                 of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty

                 God for our freedom, in order to secure its

                 blessings, do establish this Constitution."

                            Now, no one is suggesting -- are

                 you suggesting that we take that out?  I don't

                 think so.  I don't think so.  Because I

                 believe that in your heart of hearts, you

                 believe in that personal dignity, that, as the

                 Italians say, the "amore proprio," and they

                 bastardize it in Europe and they say "amour

                 propre," in French.  Love of self, loving our

                 neighbor as ourselves.

                            These are important considerations.

                 And they're so basic to how we react to each

                 other.  And I really don't -- I can't see any

                 adequate substitute, on the example that you

                 gave, that we still have that provision in the

                 Constitution.

                            We also have on the dollar, I

                 think, a little eye at the head of the

                 triangle.  I'm not sure what that means.  I

                 think it has some mysterious, mystic meaning.







                                                          5825



                 And maybe it would not, under a moralistic

                 jeweller's eye, stand close scrutiny.  But in

                 any event, there it is.

                            But of course, that dollar bill

                 does say "In God we trust."  Which perhaps

                 might have been suggested by someone who just

                 felt -- just wanted everybody to feel good

                 when they got the money.

                            But this is serious stuff.  It's so

                 basic to our civilization.  And so necessary,

                 I think, when it is felt acutely, as it

                 motivates us in trying to live up to the

                 mandate that's implicit in being children of

                 God.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I want to thank the Senator i

                 grazio, which in Italian means "the gracious

                 Senator," for his answers to my questions.

                 He's someone who I admire.

                            And on the bill, I just wanted to

                 point out that the article to which the

                 Senator referred, which for purposes of

                 population counted Africans brought to this

                 country as 3/5 of a man, was actually taken







                                                          5826



                 out of the Constitution.  But the article that

                 provides for the recovery of runaway slaves is

                 still in the Constitution.

                            So if the Senator is asking me

                 would I like to take it out, yes, I would like

                 to take it out.  Or at least -- not even as

                 much to take it out, because that would be in

                 some way referring to history in an

                 anachronistic way.  And if we don't really

                 fully learn about history, we might inevitably

                 be condemned to repeat it.

                            But I think what's more important

                 is that some of the values that Senator Marchi

                 is promoting in this legislation, and some of

                 the spiritual messages that he would like us

                 to receive, I think would be more aptly

                 applied to some of the idiosyncratic

                 references in our past documents, which in

                 many ways were discriminatory on the basis of

                 race, religion, on the bases of age and gender

                 and sexual orientation, as opposed to the

                 values of just saying them for the purpose of

                 just eliciting what would be a spiritual

                 response.

                            And I was just saying that if we're







                                                          5827



                 going to be doing this, we might want to

                 actually apply it to situations where we might

                 demonstrate how they might have been done more

                 in compliance with the spiritual message that

                 the passages from these seminal documents

                 offer.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, will Senator Marchi yield to a

                 couple of questions, please?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President.

                            Senator Marchi, the section that

                 you quote in your bill from the Declaration of

                 Independence, are you familiar with the phrase

                 that immediately follows that declaration of

                 the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and

                 the pursuit of happiness?  Do you know what







                                                          5828



                 the phrase is that follows that section?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I would prefer

                 that you put it in full context so that I get

                 a sense of balance.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay, right.

                 What I'd like to do is just read you that

                 provision.  You quote the provision about

                 holding truths self-evident, that among these

                 are life, liberty and the pursuit of

                 happiness.  The next phrase, "that to secure

                 these rights, governments are instituted among

                 men, deriving their just powers from the

                 consent of the governed."

                            My question, through you, Madam

                 President, is isn't that the critical line in

                 the Declaration of Independence?  That's the

                 critical line, that it's a declaration that

                 governments exist to preserve those rights,

                 that is the foundation for the notion that we

                 are declaring our independence from Great

                 Britain.  From the point of view of patriotism

                 and civics, isn't that the great line in the

                 Declaration of Independence?

                            It's not what we believe, but that

                 governments are created by people to put those







                                                          5829



                 beliefs into action, with the consent of the

                 governed.  Isn't that the critical notion in

                 the Declaration of Independence, even more

                 critical than the articulation of the rights?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

                 the -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Senator

                 Dollinger raises the question, and I believe

                 Senator Patrick Moynihan, who probably would

                 favor my bill, says that this is the consent

                 of the governed and this is the compact with

                 the people.  But it's preceded by defining

                 those people:  children of God.  And that God

                 gave them rights that are unalienable.  So

                 that as we elaborate and consent -- when we

                 trespass we trespass even by consent,

                 consensual processes.  We are departing from

                 the wellspring that gave us our existence -

                 we are children of God.  And what better to

                 say that instituted among -- among men, as you

                 put it, is this ability and this capacity to

                 create those institutions to -- for our

                 governance.

                            So a free people, mindful of the







                                                          5830



                 fact that there are rights that are not

                 alienable, you cannot take it away from them,

                 also have the responsibility for organizing

                 themselves and to function.  That follows, of

                 course, with respect for the right of the

                 minority.  It follows with so many of the

                 principles that you articulate so well when

                 you speak on these subjects.

                            But the basis, the basic stone that

                 the -- is our very essence as human beings.

                 It's not a compact among animals, it's a

                 compact among creatures of God.  And we're

                 reminded that we have a Supreme Judge and that

                 we're accountable to that Creator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.  We went from Madam to Mr.

                 quickly.  Excuse me, Mr. President.

                            Will Senator Marchi yield for just

                 other question?  Then I'll address the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Marchi, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes.  Yes,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Do you know,

                 Senator Marchi, how the New York delegation to







                                                          5831



                 the Philadelphia convention voted on the

                 Declaration of Independence?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, I wrote a

                 doctoral thesis on the -- and I read all of

                 the -- in tribute to the Fifth Avenue Library

                 and Columbia University and a few other

                 institutions where I could get original

                 documents.  And I read newspaper articles in

                 secured facilities where they'd lock you in,

                 you know.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I think this

                 is called a softball question.  Do you know

                 how the New York delegation voted at the

                 Philadelphia convention on the Declaration of

                 Independence?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    No, I -- well,

                 go ahead and tell me.  When you get to be my

                 age, sometimes your memory isn't as fresh -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I can

                 appreciate that, Senator, and -

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    -- and clear as

                 the crystal young man that you are.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    No, I -- I'm

                 simply reading, Senator Marchi, I'm not -- I

                 don't have any independent recollection.







                                                          5832



                            New York abstained in Philadelphia,

                 didn't vote on the Declaration of

                 Independence.  The New York delegation was

                 instructed not to vote but simply to go back

                 to New York to report to the Legislature

                 before it voted.  So New York actually

                 abstained in Philadelphia and didn't sign the

                 Declaration until it had been approved by the

                 remainder of the Congress.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, if you

                 want to be historic -- if you want to be

                 contemporary, of course, the same thing

                 happens with all of us.  Sometimes we're not

                 there when we should be.  And that goes for

                 all of us.

                            Then the -- when the 14th, 15th and

                 16th Amendments were making their way, do you

                 know that we hesitated to adopt them?  Finally

                 we adopted them, and the Democratic

                 Legislature unadopted them.  By that time,

                 other states had passed it.  So then it became

                 the law anyway.  This goes off so far back -

                 we Republicans committed so many sins

                 thereafter, Democrats did very noble things.

                            So, I mean, that's buried and in







                                                          5833



                 the past.  But we are here, we're going into

                 the new millennium.  And we go in, hopefully,

                 with a spirit and a conviction that we are

                 children of God.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Senator Marchi.  I greatly appreciate the font

                 of wisdom from this bill jumps.

                            But through you, Mr. President, as

                 I sit here today, I have -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Excuse

                 me, Senator Dollinger.  You're now on the

                 bill?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    On the bill,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Thank

                 you very much.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    As I stand

                 here today and consider this bill, I clearly

                 understand the motivation for this bill.  But

                 I have a concern about the emphasis placed on

                 one portion of our treasured documents to the

                 exclusion of others, and perhaps to the

                 deemphasis of others.

                            And I have always been intrigued by

                 the phrase about inalienable rights, which of







                                                          5834



                 course many people think comes from the

                 Constitution, but is actually found in the

                 words of Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration

                 of Independence.  But my concern, Senator

                 Marchi, is that it seems to me, from the point

                 of view of teaching people in America about

                 what their country stands for, that it is not

                 just that our founding fathers articulated

                 inalienable rights.  That had been done

                 before.  It had been done in the documents

                 from John Locke.  It had been done in English

                 documents.  It was part of Rousseau's New

                 Enlightenment thinking.  The notion that

                 people had rights was not a new notion.

                            But the critical notion that the

                 Declaration of Independence sets forth, the

                 critical notion that nowhere appears but -

                 for the first time appears in the handwriting

                 of Thomas Jefferson, is the phrase that comes

                 after it, the phrase that is the critical

                 touchstone for democracy, the phrase that's

                 the critical touchstone for this state and

                 this nation:  the source of the power of

                 government, that it is to secure these rights

                 that governments are instituted among men,







                                                          5835



                 deriving their just powers from -- using the

                 phrase that's never, really never been used

                 before -- from the consent of the governed.

                            And I would suggest, Senator

                 Marchi, that while your attempt to focus on

                 the issue of the Creator creating rights as

                 being a critical component of America -- I

                 agree with that, that notion of some

                 inalienable rights, something that we have as

                 human beings that we are given by our

                 Creator -- that the greater lesson of the

                 Declaration of Independence, the greater

                 lesson of America, the greater lesson of New

                 York State, the lesson we need to teach our

                 children, is that it is governments created by

                 men, deriving their power from the consent of

                 the governed, that are the hallmark to

                 preserve those rights, to secure those rights.

                 We don't have them without a government that

                 draws its consent from the governed.

                            And my concern, Senator Marchi, is

                 that while you focus on the Creator as having

                 given us those rights, you deemphasize the

                 notion that it is government, with the power

                 of the people behind it, that must protect







                                                          5836



                 those rights.  And my concern in voting for

                 this bill is that I would teach my children

                 that God has given them something, with a

                 strong emphasis, and not with the same

                 emphasis tell them that they in their

                 government participation, through the power of

                 their vote, through the power of their elected

                 leaders, which is the power of the consent of

                 the governed -- that without their

                 participation, they will not be able to secure

                 those rights and maintain them forever.

                            And my fear is that when we pass

                 this, which is motivated from the spirit of

                 letting children know what God gave them, that

                 they will lose the fact that men can take it

                 away from them if they don't participate in

                 their democracy.  So my fear, Senator Marchi,

                 is that by emphasizing one portion, we will

                 lose our power to emphasize the more critical

                 portion, that what God has given them men can

                 take away unless they exercise the power of

                 governance, unless they participate in their

                 government.

                            You have said, Senator Marchi, and

                 I think I quoted you directly, it's so







                                                          5837



                 important that children learn about the

                 founders' belief in God.  I would suggest it's

                 so important, equally as important -- and

                 should be a part of this bill before I can

                 vote for it -- that they must realize that it

                 is men who can take those rights away.  And it

                 is the history of mankind, as too often

                 demonstrated, as you have so often brilliantly

                 articulated on this floor, that our history is

                 littered, littered with the casualties of men

                 taking away others' inalienable rights.  I

                 remember your fabulous description of the

                 Armenian tragedy and the Armenian destruction

                 that -- the terrible time that the Armenians

                 had in the destruction of their homeland.  And

                 I think too often we forget that it is people

                 who take away those rights given from God.

                            I would strongly suggest, Senator

                 Marchi, that the true civics lesson in the

                 Declaration of Independence lies not so much

                 in saying that God gave us our rights but,

                 more importantly, that it is we, the people -

                 we, the people who believe in the power of

                 governments that govern with the consent of

                 the governed can secure those rights for







                                                          5838



                 eternity, that is the most important message

                 of the Declaration of Independence.

                            I'm afraid that if we pass this

                 bill and require simply one reference without

                 the other, we will lose the greatest message

                 given in history, which is contained in this

                 document.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam -- no

                 Madam.  Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I prayerfully

                 hope that this bill passes.  But the

                 sentiments you expressed, Senator, are

                 excellent.  And they spring, I think, from

                 your deep faith -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Absolutely.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    -- in the

                 dignity of the individual and the human being

                 and the obligations that we have morally.  You

                 made a very, very moral statement for -- for

                 the application of what I'm talking about.

                            So I hope we have a last section

                 and we have -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:







                                                          5839



                 Senator Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I was hoping that the sponsor

                 would yield to a few questions as well.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Marchi, do you yield?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes.  Yes, I

                 will.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you very

                 much, Senator.  In an effort to not ask you to

                 restate the purpose for the introduction of

                 this legislation, I would like to focus on one

                 area and see if we can find some common

                 ground.

                            I heard over and over again the

                 sponsor -- through you, Mr. President -

                 discuss that one of the major purposes of this

                 bill is to make sure that tolerance and

                 dignity is something that is dwelled upon in

                 the schools, that it is something that is made

                 a part of the very fabric of schools, that

                 they are values that are instilled in the

                 students in the school as well as within the

                 entire school community.  And I heard over and

                 over again dignity as being one of the major







                                                          5840



                 components or outcomes that the sponsor hopes

                 to have result from this legislation.

                            Is that an appropriate

                 characterization?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Fair enough.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    In that -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Duane, do you have another question

                 now of Senator Marchi?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Sort of.  Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Okay.

                 Senator Marchi, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    You're asking me

                 to yield to a question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Yes,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, Senator, of

                 course.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I agree that this

                 is a very, very important value, as are other

                 values which need to be instilled in schools

                 through the school community, hoping that it

                 is something that comes to the school and







                                                          5841



                 throughout the neighborhood through the family

                 as well.

                            And I was wondering if the sponsor

                 would also agree that the goal of tolerance

                 and dignity for students within a school can

                 only ultimately make it possible for dignity

                 and tolerance to be values shared throughout

                 neighborhoods, throughout the state, and

                 hopefully throughout all of the communities in

                 the nation, for that matter.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, it's been

                 the objective and the pursuit of 200 years of

                 endless effort, of trial and error, of all

                 kinds of experiences.  But hopefully we're

                 making our way there.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Thank

                 you.

                            Mr. President, I believe that

                 there's an amendment at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    There

                 is, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And I would waive

                 the reading of the amendment, if the president

                 so desires.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I understood,







                                                          5842



                 Senator, you had offered an amendment, and by

                 the rules, you submitted copies, so I am

                 familiar with the -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Excuse

                 me.  Senator Marchi, are you asking Senator

                 Duane to yield?  Do you have a question for

                 him?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, I'm just

                 saying that the rules require that it -- the

                 amendment be shared, and the Senator has done

                 this.  So I'm familiar with it.  I have no

                 objection to his -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Thank

                 you, Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If I may describe the

                 amendment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    We've

                 reviewed the amendment.  You may describe it

                 and move forward.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            The amendment at the desk is the -

                 is really legislation entitled "Dignity for

                 All Students Act."  And what this legislation







                                                          5843



                 would do is to put into place policies

                 throughout the state of New York that would

                 ensure that schools are safe and respectful

                 for all students, regardless of their ethnic

                 group identification, race, national origin,

                 gender, sexual orientation, religious

                 background, et cetera.

                            It would mean that the Commissioner

                 of Education would be authorized -- indeed,

                 directed -- to implement policies that would

                 make sure that school environments around the

                 state are safe, that a curriculum would be put

                 forward and students would be required to take

                 it that would have the aim of fostering an

                 appreciation of different kinds of people, to

                 make sure that tolerance of different kinds of

                 people were taught, that no student should

                 ever have to be in fear of being intimidated

                 because of who they are or who they are

                 perceived to be.

                            I think that among many other

                 pieces of legislation which we have seen come

                 before this body during this legislative

                 session dealing with issues of violence and

                 discrimination in schools, in some cases







                                                          5844



                 leading to gun violence and other forms of

                 violence in schools -- we've all seen the

                 terrible violence on television and in the

                 newspapers which has happened because of

                 unfortunate circumstances in schools which has

                 led students to act out sometimes in violent

                 manners.

                            And what this legislation seeks to

                 do is from the earliest time on in school to

                 foster an atmosphere in school where kids

                 would not have to fear that they're at risk of

                 physical violence, where they are not in fear

                 of being verbally harassed or made fun of,

                 called names.  That it would be the

                 responsibility of the administration and of

                 teachers to foster a safe environment where

                 there would be zero tolerance for bias-related

                 language.  I don't have to tell you what those

                 words are.  You've heard those words, sadly.

                 But to make schools, to the best efforts

                 possible, free of that form of discrimination

                 and intolerance.

                            And I think in many ways it's

                 complementary to the spirit of Senator

                 Marchi's legislation, in that ultimately







                                                          5845



                 legislation such as ours would hope to restore

                 tolerance and dignity to all students in

                 schools, through different avenues but with

                 the same result.

                            And I would urge my colleagues to

                 support this amendment to the bill and make

                 dignity for all students a reality in the

                 schools in the state of New York.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 question is on the amendment.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    All

                 those opposed, nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 amendment is defeated.

                            Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I have an amendment served on

                 the sponsor at the desk.  I would just like to

                 call it up, waive its reading, and explain.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Connor, you may proceed with the







                                                          5846



                 amendment.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            My amendment follows in the course

                 of what Senator Marchi has proposed.  I think

                 it's admirable what he's doing here.  And my

                 amendment would add to his legislation the

                 requirement that the Pledge of Allegiance be

                 taught with special emphasis on the words "one

                 nation under God."  And I think it's

                 self-explanatory, and I certainly hope my

                 amendment passes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Marchi -- first of all, Senator Marchi

                 on the amendment.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, on the

                 amendment.

                            I have certainly no violent

                 difference with you on the subject.  But if

                 you go back to Section 801, which was adopted

                 in 1980, I -- 1980 or 1988, but then was

                 amended because of the whole question of the

                 Pledge, and that gave rise to the instruction

                 on certain subjects, the courses of

                 instruction 801 and then 802, on the question







                                                          5847



                 of the flag -- we're getting into an area

                 which would require extended discourse and

                 debate.

                            And the responsibility is assigned

                 to the -- the Regents shall determine the

                 subjects to be included in such courses of

                 instruction on patriotism and in humanity -

                 on the question of human rights issues.  And

                 it does give them that province.

                            It is possible, under amendments

                 that were made in 1994, 1996, a body of laws

                 which has suggested to them -- and perhaps you

                 might want to provide them, rather than get

                 into the question of how we're going to

                 amend -- I don't know whether you would

                 provide for the amendment of Section 801

                 altogether, because it is a rather complicated

                 item.

                            So that I believe that if you

                 follow the footsteps that were selected in

                 1994 and 1996, as add-ons -- that's where the

                 famine in Ireland and the Holocaust came in -

                 that there may be a way in which you can

                 effect a change.  And I would recommend it.

                 It was in -- you will find it in the chapters







                                                          5848



                 of the Laws of 1994 and 1996.  But it's not in

                 the statute books yet.  It's instructions

                 given to the Board of Regents.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 question is on the amendment.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Party vote in

                 the affirmative.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Party vote in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 24.  Nays,

                 36.  Party vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 amendment is defeated.

                            On the bill, read the last section.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Mr.

                 President, to explain -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Montgomery, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    -- my vote.

                 Can I explain my vote?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    We







                                                          5849



                 have to call the roll first.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Call the

                 roll.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Montgomery, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I'm -- I've

                 been instructed that I have 3/5 of my time to

                 explain, so I'll go quickly.

                            I want to just make sure that my

                 colleagues know what we are amending.  So I'm

                 going to read into the record, Mr. President,

                 Senator Marchi's -- the bill that Senator

                 Marchi is amending.  I'm not reading his

                 language, I'm reading the bill that is already

                 in law.

                            It says, on page 2, line 6, "The

                 Regents shall determine the subjects to be

                 included in such courses of instruction in







                                                          5850



                 patriotism, citizenship, and human rights

                 issues, with particular attention to the study

                 of the inhumanity of genocide, slavery -

                 including the Freedom Trail and Underground

                 Railroad -- the Holocaust, and the mass

                 starvation in Ireland from 1845 to 1850, the

                 history, meaning, significance, and effect of

                 the provisions of the Constitution of the

                 United States, the amendments thereto, the

                 Declaration of Independence, the Constitution

                 of the State of New York, and the amendments

                 thereto."

                            So I just want my colleagues to

                 know that in fact what Senator Marchi is

                 trying to do is already in law.  It is not

                 even necessary that this language go in.  But

                 nonetheless, I am voting for it, because it is

                 already part of our statutes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            Senator Duane, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            Though I have the utmost respect







                                                          5851



                 for the sponsor of the legislation and the

                 values which he holds dear, and for the most

                 part agree with them in spirit, if not across

                 the board, and try to uphold them in my own

                 personal life, I believe that this legislation

                 would begin a slippery slope towards the

                 teaching of religion and, more specifically, a

                 religion in our public schools.  And for that

                 reason, I just can't support it.

                            I very firmly believe that our

                 protections for freedom of religion in the

                 Constitution has in fact created an atmosphere

                 in the United States where perhaps religions

                 are stronger than anyplace else in the entire

                 world.  And to my mind, since freedom of

                 religion is not broken, that we don't need to

                 fix it through this by introducing religion

                 into public schools.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Duane will be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            Senator Paterson, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,







                                                          5852



                 I've -- I voted in the affirmative on the

                 amendment.  I'm sorry, I thought the amendment

                 had been voted on.  I'm sorry.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 Secretary will announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1295 are

                 Senators -- those recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1295 are Senators Duane,

                 Hevesi, Schneiderman, Seabrook, and Waldon.

                 Ayes, 55.  Nays, 5.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Morahan, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Mr. President,

                 I would ask for unanimous consent, without

                 objection, to change -- to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 1529, Senate Bill

                 5738.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    With

                 out objection, you will be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    May I go on,

                 Mr. President?  I hope I'm doing this the

                 right way.







                                                          5853



                            On 6/14 I was out of the chamber

                 for Calendar Item 1333, Senate Bill S4405.

                 Had I been in the chamber, I would have cast a

                 negative vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 record will so reflect.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Seabrook, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SEABROOK:    Yes,

                 Mr. President.  With unanimous consent, I

                 would like to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar 980.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    With

                 out objection.

                            Senator Sampson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SAMPSON:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 980.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    With

                 out objection.

                            Senator Meier, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 rise to ask that the Secretary bring -- or







                                                          5854



                 read, rather, Calendar 667.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 667, by Member of the Assembly Hill, Assembly

                 Print Number 7549A, an act relating to the

                 payment of a lottery prize.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Hannon, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    I'm sorry,

                 Mr. President, I didn't hear.  Who asked for

                 the explanation?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Duane asked for the explanation.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    This is a bill

                 that has, in a different form, passed this

                 house in regard to describing situations when

                 a lottery ticket having been lost, and all of

                 the circumstantial evidence being -- pointing

                 in one direction might be -- that

                 circumstantial evidence could be considered

                 the equivalent of the winning lottery ticket

                 and presented to the Lottery Commission for







                                                          5855



                 approval of payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, would the sponsor yield?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Hannon, do you yield?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    This legislation

                 provides more leniency for someone who missed

                 a chance to claim their prize?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.  But with

                 careful circumscribing of when that chance may

                 occur so that we are sure to a moral certitude

                 that the individual who has all of the

                 circumstantial evidence is the person who

                 really had the ticket.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Okay.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.







                                                          5856



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Could we now return to the

                 order of messages from the Assembly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    We

                 will return to the order of messages from the

                 Assembly.

                            I hand down a message from the

                 Assembly.  The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    The Assembly

                 returns Senate Bill Number 3651, with a

                 message that it has concurred in the passage

                 of the same, with amendments.  Senator Padavan

                 moved to concur in said amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 amendment is concurred, and the bill is before

                 the house.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number







                                                          5857



                 449, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3651A,

                 Assembly Reprint Number 30,000, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, I just laid the bill aside because

                 there were -- on the original version of this

                 bill, Senators Breslin, Dollinger, Duane,

                 Kruger, Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago,

                 Schneiderman, and Stavisky voted against this

                 bill.  I understand in a conversation with -

                 well, I just wanted to alert the other members

                 that the bill, as I understand it, is just a

                 series of technical amendments and one minor

                 correction to the last bill.  And I'd just

                 advise my colleagues that those were the

                 members who voted against it the first time

                 around.

                            This is Calendar Number 449;

                 correct?







                                                          5858



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    That's

                 correct, 449.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Why don't we

                 just do the same vote, since it was the same

                 bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    We consent to

                 recording the same vote as on the bill when it

                 was previously before the house.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    With

                 out objection, please record the Senate vote.

                 The same vote.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, after consultation with the Deputy

                 Majority Leader, it appears as though we

                 cannot have that same vote.

                            I would simply, however, recommend

                 that my colleagues who were in the chamber who







                                                          5859



                 voted against it the first time around, it's

                 the same bill with some minor technical

                 amendments.  I think the objection that we

                 raised the last time around is the same

                 objection.

                            And I'd ask you to just read the

                 last section and then call the roll.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect July 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 449 are

                 Senators Breslin, Dollinger, Duane,

                 Montgomery, Paterson, and Schneiderman.  Ayes,

                 54.  Nays, 6.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 may we now call up Calendar 1462, which is

                 found in the first supplemental calendar.







                                                          5860



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

                 Explanation, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1462, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 2543C, an act to amend the Environmental

                 Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, is

                 there a message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    Yes,

                 there is.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    I move acceptance

                 of the message of necessity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All those in favor say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    All

                 those opposed, say nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:    The

                 message is accepted.







                                                          5861



                            Read the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    We tried.

                 Mr. President, I think they want an

                 explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Marcellino, Senator Dollinger has

                 asked for an explanation.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    And I'll be

                 glad to give him one.

                            Mr. President, in 1996 we did a

                 Pesticide Registry Act, which I and several

                 other senators were co-prime sponsors to.

                 That act allowed us to collect a certain

                 amount of documentation and information

                 relative to pesticide usage throughout New

                 York State.

                            One -- or some groups, particularly

                 the New York Public Interest Research Group

                 and Environmental Advocates, put out a report

                 in 1998, based heavily on the documentation

                 provided by the Pesticide Registry Act, in

                 which they stated that New York is plagued by

                 pesticides, New York State.  In the executive

                 summary, they particularly stated that







                                                          5862



                 downstate -- and I'm reading, and I quote.

                 This is from the executive summary:

                 "Downstate urban and suburban counties report

                 more pesticide use than rural and other

                 upstate counties.  The data reveal a striking

                 pattern that shows substantially more

                 pesticide use in downstate urban and suburban

                 areas than in rural and other upstate

                 counties.  New York, Manhattan, Kings, Nassau,

                 Suffolk and Westchester Counties dominate the

                 overall county rankings.  The use of such

                 large amounts of toxic pesticides in densely

                 populated and geographically small downstate

                 areas can pose significant public health

                 risks.  This kind of intimate exposure has the

                 potential to affect people, particularly

                 vulnerable populations such as infants,

                 children, and the elderly, on

                 an-around-the-clock basis."

                            A constituent came into my office

                 and said to me, "Senator, I was in my house

                 doing some housework, my child was out playing

                 in the back yard.  I looked out the kitchen

                 window to notice a mist come flying across

                 through the hedges."  She went outside and







                                                          5863



                 noticed a person standing there holding a

                 power hose, spraying the trees that border her

                 property.  He was dressed in almost like a

                 space suit, the way she described it.  He had

                 a facial mask on, an inhaler to protect his

                 face, clothing to protect his garments.  He

                 was totally draped.  And he was spraying.  Her

                 child had no such protection.  She was very

                 concerned, ran outside, grabbed the child and

                 moved him inside.  She felt she should have

                 been warned, yet there was nothing in the law

                 to do that.

                            Another constituent came to me and

                 said, "Senator, I was sitting in my house, in

                 my bedroom, and all of a sudden -- with the

                 window open, taking a nice summer day and

                 getting some breeze.  And all of a sudden, a

                 mist came flying through the window."  He

                 looked outside -- after closing the window -

                 and noticed a similar occurrence.  A gentleman

                 was out there spraying the hedges, and the

                 spray from the hose was rising up in the air

                 and traveling and impacting his way of life

                 and impacting his lifestyle.

                            He would also have liked to have







                                                          5864



                 been notified in advance so that he could have

                 taken some precautions.  He didn't object to

                 the fact that his neighbor was protecting his

                 shrubs or his foliage.  They were expensive

                 trees, and he understood the reason.  But he

                 just would have liked to have been warned so

                 that he could have closed his window, perhaps

                 covered the pool which they happen to have

                 had, cover the sandbox where the children

                 played.

                            The other lady would have liked to

                 have been able -- another constituent said

                 when that happened, a similar occurrence

                 happened to her, they had laundry hanging out,

                 and she had to bring the laundry back inside

                 and rewash it because she didn't want it to be

                 contaminated.

                            What we are proposing in this

                 particular bill is basically a homeowners

                 infringement protection act.  We want to

                 protect homeowners from having their rights

                 infringed upon, having their lifestyle

                 infringed upon.  Not by anybody doing

                 something illegal, but just to give them good

                 warning.   It's a good-neighbor act.  It says







                                                          5865



                 if you're going to spray trees, you should be

                 providing your neighbors whose houses can be

                 impacted, whose properties can be impacted,

                 give them at least 48-hour notice so that they

                 can take whatever precautions they wish to

                 take.

                            We're not saying don't spray.

                 We're not saying don't do what you feel you

                 have to do to protect your property.  We're

                 just saying warn your neighbors, let them

                 know.

                            Current law requires pesticide

                 applicators who come to your property to put

                 down application to put little flags on the

                 front lawn or around the property to mark the

                 fact that the property has been treated, give

                 you a warning to stay off of it.  Our bill

                 would also require that same behavior of

                 homeowners.  Homeowners right now can go out

                 and put an application on the lawn and are not

                 required -- although I've noticed in recent

                 years many do put up some kind of notification

                 to let their neighbors know that the lawn has

                 been treated.

                            Again, it doesn't say don't do it.







                                                          5866



                 It just says this lawn has something on it,

                 why don't you stay off it for a while.  Not

                 that you should be walking on your neighbor's

                 lawn anyway, it's private property.  But we're

                 just telling you that their lawn has been

                 treated so that if you're walking your dog on

                 the sidewalk, you might not want to let the

                 dog go running on the property.  If kids are

                 playing, you might not want to let them play

                 on the lawn.

                            Pesticide applicators, among

                 others, have been somewhat opposed to the

                 bill.  And one can understand that.  They feel

                 it's going to impact their right to make a

                 living, it's going to increase the cost of

                 doing business, and a whole host of other

                 reasons.

                            So we worked with these people and

                 negotiated and talked and discussed, and we

                 came to some ground rules.  We said basically

                 if you're going to spray shrubbery -- this

                 would include lawns -- less than five feet in

                 height and the object of the spraying is

                 within 15 feet of your property line, all you

                 have to do is go over to your neighbor and







                                                          5867



                 warn them, give them 48 hours' notice, at

                 least, and say, Look, I'm going to do that.

                            If the tree is above that height or

                 if the shrubs are above that height and the

                 spraying equipment is a high-powered device,

                 then you have to go a little bit more

                 distance.  We say if it's within 50 yards or

                 150 feet.  This is not a hard thing to do.

                 You can pace that off.  If there's an abutting

                 property line there on the neighbor's

                 property, you walk over and you go and inform

                 the neighbor, give them some notice.

                            This could be accomplished -- we've

                 talked to applicators.  This could be

                 accomplished quite simply.  All they have to

                 do is when they inspect the site to determine

                 what they're going to do, walking the site

                 with the homeowner, they simply have to take

                 it, pace it off:  Okay, there's a neighbor

                 over there, that's the one I have to notify.

                 Walk over, hang a slip on the neighbor's door

                 which basically says what you're going to

                 spray and when you're going to spray it.

                            We're not asking them to do

                 something that they don't ordinarily do.  I







                                                          5868



                 obtained my own lawn applicator by that very

                 means.  He signed up one of my neighbors, went

                 around the community saying, basically, "I

                 signed up your neighbor.  Would you like a

                 lawn application as well?"  I checked him out,

                 he was licensed, he had all the credentials, I

                 checked him with Consumer Protection Agency in

                 our county.  He had a good reputation.  I

                 signed him up to do the work.

                            That's the way I would contend that

                 most people get their applicators, by that

                 very means.  We're not telling the applicators

                 to do any more than that.  When they go around

                 soliciting other business that they've already

                 signed up somebody, all they have to do is

                 notify these people:  This is what we're

                 doing.  They're walking up and down the

                 street.  I wasn't even an abutting property to

                 that other neighbor.  They found me by just

                 going knocking on doors.  It wasn't that hard.

                 All we're saying is go to the person next

                 door, within the ranges we discussed, and do

                 it.

                            We've got some provisos in this

                 that basically ask the homeowner, if they're







                                                          5869



                 doing a granular application, to flag the

                 property as well.  We try to avoid it.  We put

                 some language in the bill that says if you're

                 applying pesticides to a small area, less than

                 a hundred square feet, you don't have to do

                 anything.  What we're trying to do is avoid

                 somebody going out and spraying dandelions in

                 one little patch or covering one little spot

                 or grandma spraying a rosebush, a small bush

                 near the house, that she doesn't have to give

                 48 hours' notice to somebody on that.  So

                 we've limited that.  We've tried to cut out

                 that problem.

                            The bill is common sense.  It's a

                 good-neighbor bill.  It's a commonsense bill.

                 It is, as the bill says, limited to New York

                 City, Nassau and Suffolk Counties, and

                 Westchester County, in conjunction with the

                 report by NYPIRG and Environmental Advocates

                 which basically said downstate has the

                 greatest problem.  We think that with

                 downstate and Westchester, we cover

                 approximately two-thirds of the population of

                 the state of New York.

                            And with this group, under this







                                                          5870



                 experiment, we can begin to show that this

                 plan can work, will not put people out of

                 business, will not be a detriment to the

                 applicators, will not cause undue stress to

                 anybody, and perhaps it will spread.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, you have a question -

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.  Would

                 the sponsor yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:     -

                 for Senator Marcellino?

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    It would be

                 my pleasure to yield to the former ranker on

                 the Environmental Conservation Committee.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Your dear

                 buddy.  Okay.

                            Why do you think it's necessary

                 only to cover the eight counties downstate and

                 not the -- we are 62 counties in this state.

                 And why are we not covering all counties in

                 your bill?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Many of

                 our -- as I said earlier, this -- let me

                 correct that.  As I said earlier, this bill







                                                          5871



                 covers approximately two-thirds of the

                 populated area -- or the population of New

                 York State already.  We are trying to impact

                 those areas where the greatest impact occurs.

                            There has been strong opposition by

                 Farm Bureau, who basically say that it isn't

                 necessary in the rural farm areas of upstate

                 New York where you don't have the density of

                 population, where you don't have the

                 compactness of population, that the

                 notification law would be a burden, an

                 unnecessary burden on these areas.

                            We feel that by doing the downstate

                 communities where the greatest impact would be

                 felt, where the greatest protection would be

                 provided, we're serving the greatest need.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Are you

                 aware -- if you would yield again, through

                 you, Mr. President -

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Absolutely.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    -- that the

                 majority of the New York City pesticide

                 applications which are referenced in the

                 statistics you mentioned earlier, they are

                 interior applications which are not covered by







                                                          5872



                 notice?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I would

                 suggest, Senator, that if you lived in

                 Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Staten Island, other

                 than Manhattan, you would find that you would

                 have enough outdoor applications where you

                 have trees and shrubs.

                            The one last tree left in

                 Manhattan, which we're trying to protect and

                 preserve at this point in time as a shrine to

                 the environment, we don't think has to be

                 sprayed.

                            I don't mean to be facetious or

                 make light of it, but the other boroughs do

                 have a need.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I was just

                 saying that the majority of the applications

                 in New York City are interior ones.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, do you have another

                 question?

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes, if you

                 would yield again, the sponsor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Marcellino, do you continue to yield?







                                                          5873



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    It would be

                 my pleasure.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    There seems

                 to be, in your bill, a complex set of heights

                 and setbacks and type of spraying equipment.

                 And the majority of applications that go

                 directly to lawns are not covered in your

                 bill; is that correct?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Absolutely

                 not correct, Senator.  Lawns -- if the Senator

                 will yield to a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, would you yield for a

                 question from Senator Marcellino?

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Sure.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator, do

                 you have a lawn in front of your house on your

                 property?  How high is the grass?

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

                 (Gesturing.)

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Let the

                 record show she refers to something

                 approximately 3 inches in height.

                            By my ability in mathematics, 3

                 inches is less than 5 feet.  If you applied a







                                                          5874



                 granular application -- if you applied a

                 granular application, you would have to flag

                 your property under this bill.  If you hired

                 Chemlawn to come in and spray your grass, they

                 would have to notify at least -- give your

                 neighbors at least 48 hours' notice.  They're

                 required to do that under this bill as well.

                 And if you sprayed it with a hose, a garden

                 hose, which is about a

                 60-pound-per-square-inch force, you would have

                 to give your neighbors notification.

                            Grass is absolutely covered.  Lawn

                 applications are absolutely covered by this

                 bill.  You talk about a complex set of

                 heights.  Five feet, the height of an average

                 person, 5 feet.  We can give or take a few

                 inches, I don't think anybody's going to sue

                 you.  You've got to notify somebody within 15

                 feet of the abutting property line.  That's

                 simply done.  Because usually when you're

                 doing that, you're pointing your object down

                 and there is a de minimis amount of spread in

                 the spray.  If it's above 5 feet, you're

                 aiming the gun up.  So if it sprays up, it

                 travels greater, we say you have to go at







                                                          5875



                 least 50 yards, or 50 paces.

                            This is not complex.  This is a

                 basic, simple thing.  Everybody can figure

                 this one out.  As the applicator walks the

                 property and checks it out, they can simply

                 pace it off.  This is not rocket science.

                 This is simple.

                            We put in some spray numbers.  We

                 said at least 25 pounds per square inch,

                 because we wanted to make sure we incorporated

                 everything but the little push can that is

                 done.  That's why that's in there.  We feel

                 it's important to do that.  Otherwise we would

                 have a hole as to what is under the code and

                 what isn't, what kinds of devices are used.

                            The typical devices used by the

                 professional applicators will be covered by

                 this legislation.  The pump-up devices which

                 build up a certain amount of pressure, all

                 will exceed at least 25 pounds per square inch

                 when you do that.  So we feel they're covered

                 as well.  We think this had to be done to

                 protect Grandma Marcellino from going out and

                 hand-pumping her favorite rosebush, and we

                 just didn't want to make her have to notify







                                                          5876



                 her neighbors and give them 48 hours'

                 notification.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  I think I'll just talk on the bill

                 for a moment or two -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BONACIC:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, on the bill.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    -- because

                 it sounds so good.  You know, sometimes the

                 names of things sound so much better than the

                 thing actually is.

                            The fact is that almost everybody

                 in the environmental community is opposed to

                 this bill and supports Assembly 1461, which is

                 the bill that they see as comprehensive.  It

                 covers all pesticide applications, it covers

                 all applications in schools and daycare

                 centers, it is not complex, it covers the

                 entire state of New York, it doesn't single

                 out eight counties.  And, by the way, the

                 other counties of this state are -- their

                 options are foreclosed so they can't even opt

                 into this.

                            And, in addition, this is

                 something -- well, as I said, it applies only







                                                          5877



                 downstate, which kind of makes you wonder why

                 this body isn't dealing with the entire state.

                            Now, the fact is that the cancer

                 rate is 6 percent higher outside of New York

                 City, and that cancer rates are growing more

                 rapidly outside of New York City.  In the

                 city, the incidence of invasive cancers are -

                 is about 3 percent, and it's 12½ percent for

                 the rest of our state.  Why are we not looking

                 at the rest of our state?

                            I'm going to try and cover this

                 more quickly, leaving out some of these facts.

                 In 1997, since it was mentioned that the

                 farmers are the reason this is not covering

                 the entire state, commercial pesticide

                 applicators applied or sold to farmers a total

                 of 16½ million pounds of pesticides and 2.4

                 million gallons of pesticides.  This is an

                 incredible amount of pesticides going into our

                 land and onto our trees and into our food.

                            And the description of -- there's a

                 description of possible toxic effects, which I

                 will briefly discuss.  There's neurotoxicity,

                 which includes -- well, it would give you a

                 headache, it would give you dizziness.







                                                          5878



                 There's the effect of carcinogens.  There are

                 epidemiological links between pesticides and

                 childhood cancers, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma,

                 multiple myeloma, leukemia, and breast and

                 prostate cancers.  It also affects birth

                 defects.  These pesticide applications produce

                 reproductive abnormalities like infertility

                 and miscarriage.  And they're also immune

                 suppressors.  And the most heavily used

                 products upstate are some of the most

                 hazardous.  And new pesticide products are

                 proliferating all the time.

                            There's a really dangerous illogic

                 in our system in this country, and it's based

                 towards accepting a pesticide use until the

                 mounting proof of harm is totally

                 incontestable.  Pesticides such as DDT,

                 dieldrin, and chlordane were once widely used

                 and claimed to be safe.  And they are now

                 banned because of serious harmful effects.

                            What I'm saying -- and the reason I

                 voted for this in committee was because I had

                 very high hopes that the two bills, the one in

                 the Assembly, 1461, and this one, S2543, would

                 conference, that we could have a conference







                                                          5879



                 committee that would bring these two bills

                 together.

                            But, you know, to just deal with

                 New York City and a couple of the suburbs when

                 the counties with the highest cancer rates are

                 Clinton County, which has the highest rate for

                 total invasive malignant cancers as well as

                 for prostate cancer, Rockland County has the

                 highest incidence of breast cancer, Hamilton

                 County has the highest rates of non-Hodgkin's

                 lymphomas, Schuyler County has the highest

                 incidence of ovarian cancers -- it's just

                 unreasonable to say that we should only have

                 this protection in eight counties when there

                 are 62 counties in this state and they all

                 need protection.

                            So I am going to be voting against

                 this.  The Environmental Advocates have given

                 this two smokestacks.  And I certainly hope

                 that others will join me in voting no and hope

                 that we will be able to get a conference

                 committee going that will draw together the

                 excellent Assembly bill and this bill and try

                 and work to a conclusion that's satisfactory

                 to all.







                                                          5880



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, thank you.  Just a point, a couple

                 of points that need to be made.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The Assembly

                 bill is a second bill.  We at one time had a

                 same-as.  And the bill that passed the

                 Assembly two years ago, it was substantially

                 very similar in scope, in concept, to the one

                 we are talking about on this floor today.

                            We have made some amendments to the

                 bill.  Their bill is a little bit too

                 simplistic.  It requires everything -

                 everybody to notify for any application

                 whatsoever, give a neighbor 48 hours' notice.

                 So if I want to put Plus-2 and kill some

                 dandelions on my lawn, I have to tell my

                 neighbor 48 hours in advance.  This bill makes

                 a criminal out of somebody for doing basic

                 lawn care.  It's unnecessary.

                            The flagging is all that's needed

                 on that.  Notify the people and let them know







                                                          5881



                 that it's there.  It's private property you're

                 talking about, Senator.  There's no reason for

                 people to be walking on other people's front

                 lawns.  If they know there's a pesticide or

                 they know there's an application on that

                 property, they'll stay off.  So warning them

                 ahead of time is a kind of -- well, making a

                 criminal out of a homeowner for that is, I

                 think, a little bit far out.

                            Schools are in the other bill.  The

                 school boards don't want this problem of

                 having to get involved with sending home

                 letters every time they put down some type of

                 pesticide out in the field.  That would be a

                 burden on them.  But in fact, you have an

                 elected school board.  They're an elected body

                 and have a perfect right to set a standard.

                 If they want to notify the people in their

                 community, all that school board has to do is

                 tell the superintendent to do it and he'll do

                 it.  Or she'll do it.  So that can be

                 accomplished.  You don't need state

                 legislation for that.

                            Daycare centers.  They have to meet

                 health and safety codes.  If you're interested







                                                          5882



                 in how they treat your children, you ask.  I

                 know a number of people, some who work for me,

                 who put their children in daycare.  You go to

                 them, you sign a contract and you say what are

                 you going to do, how is my child treated, how

                 do you keep this place clean, where does my

                 child play and how does he or she come in

                 contact with it.  They'll tell you, and you'll

                 know.  And if you don't like what they tell

                 you, don't put your child in the daycare

                 center.  You don't need state legislation for

                 that.  It goes beyond the pale to require that

                 sort of thing.

                            With respect to the cancer studies,

                 I would suggest to you, Senator, that there is

                 no definitive study that connects cancer with

                 pesticides.  Do we suspect?  Yes.  Do I

                 suspect?  Yes.  Do I know for a fact?  No.

                 And the rules and the science on this topic

                 are muddy at best.

                            So I would suggest that we have a

                 bill on the floor which covers a lot of

                 ground, deals with the issue clearly, is

                 easily enforced and easily dealt with and

                 easily understood and doesn't force people







                                                          5883



                 into breaking laws unnecessarily.  But it just

                 says to them, be a good neighbor, be a

                 comprehensive person -- a decent person and

                 treat your neighbor with some respect and give

                 them a little bit of a heads-up when you're

                 doing something.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  If I may.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I have -

                 well, a couple of things.

                            The first thing I would say is that

                 my wish is that we get a conference committee

                 going.  Neither bill is going anywhere unless

                 we get a conference committee going.  The

                 Assembly bill is much closer to what I desire

                 and what the environmental community wants,

                 but unless we get our heads together, we have

                 nothing.  And there is no companion bill live

                 in the Assembly now on yours, and we have

                 nothing here that is a companion to the

                 Assembly bill.

                            I would very much like to see

                 action.  I understand what you're saying about







                                                          5884



                 maybe getting too minute.  But on the other

                 hand, I think with 62 counties, they deserve

                 coverage as well as -- you know, the other

                 counties deserve it as well as the eight.

                            But here I have before me -- you

                 said there is nothing that is known to be a

                 carcinogen.  In -

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I didn't say

                 that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    No, no, I

                 didn't say nothing was known to be a

                 carcinogen, Senator.  I said the cause and

                 effect on pesticides causing cancer is muddy

                 at best.  That's what I said.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Well, I -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    If I may, I

                 would just like to enter in the record that -

                 this was put out in 1997 by our New York State

                 DEC, its Pesticide Sales and Application

                 Database.  And the first line says "Known

                 carcinogens."  And under that it says that







                                                          5885



                 there have been 1,438,000 pounds of known

                 carcinogens that are used in our state.  So -

                 and this is known.  The next line under that

                 is "Probable and likely" carcinogens.  So

                 there are known, and -- and we do put a lot of

                 it on our earth.

                            I just am hopeful that we can get a

                 conference committee going as soon as

                 possible.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I think rather than us spending a

                 great deal of time in talking about other

                 bills that are in the other house and what is

                 not included in this bill, I think it would be

                 more productive for us to talk about a bill

                 that's on the floor and what is included.

                            And the fact that Senator

                 Marcellino has taken the leadership to move

                 forward to protect the areas of Long Island,

                 New York City, and Westchester County.  And

                 not worrying about what counties' options are

                 foreclosed, but to say what options do exist







                                                          5886



                 for the residents of those communities that

                 will be protected with some uniform standards

                 for consumer pesticides that currently don't

                 exist in this state of New York.

                            And I'm very happy that Senator

                 Marcellino amended this bill to include

                 Westchester County.  That there are -- I don't

                 think it's relevant at this point that -

                 whether or not there's a companion bill in the

                 Assembly.  This bill is before us.  Why?

                 Because the Governor sent a message of

                 necessity on this bill.  And I'm sure that, as

                 he did that for this bill, if the Assembly

                 chose to either take this bill up or have a

                 bill printed of their own, I'm sure the

                 Governor would grant that same courtesy for

                 them.

                            I think what this bill does here is

                 recognizes the public health risks that exist

                 currently, rather than getting into the

                 clinical decisions, the studies of whether or

                 not it's cancer-causing.  I think it's pretty

                 obvious that it's obnoxious, that there are

                 applicators who are unprofessional, that there

                 are individuals across the state who have a







                                                          5887



                 total disregard for their neighbors, a total

                 disregard for their environment, a total

                 disregard for the health and the safety of our

                 families and their families.  And this bill

                 will put a stop -- will go a long way towards

                 putting a stop to that total disregard.

                            So I think the all-or-nothing

                 attitude is not productive.  What we should

                 say is that we have a start here.  We have a

                 recognition that there need to be these type

                 of uniform standards, that we need to provide

                 some safety, a safety net for the people who

                 live in these counties that are covered.

                            And for us to say that maybe we may

                 oppose this bill -- or, as some groups have

                 suggested, we oppose this bill, why, because

                 it doesn't include the entire state of New

                 York -- is not productive at all.  Should we

                 start -- where do we start?  We do this with

                 so many other measures that come before us

                 here, that we will start by protecting a

                 certain number of people or different

                 geographical areas in this state and build

                 upon that.  And give us a chance, as we start

                 the process, to evaluate how it is working and







                                                          5888



                 evaluate the health and the safety and the

                 risks that are -- that exist across the state.

                            So I think that this -- we should

                 be commending Senator Marcellino for moving

                 forward and showing the leadership and saying

                 he is going to lead by saying that we need

                 these uniform standards, that we are going to

                 send a message out to those unprofessional

                 applicators that these standards are going to

                 exist in this state, and we're going to send

                 the message out to individuals in this state

                 that this commonsense approach is something

                 that should be adopted by -- not only by an

                 act of the Legislature, but by the common

                 sense of individuals before they decide to go

                 out and use pesticides on their own properties

                 that will have an impact on their neighbors.

                            So Senator Marcellino, I think we

                 are -- certainly it's a good day today that

                 we're moving forward in this direction, and

                 I'm very happy to see this bill on the floor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Can we

                 just have a little quiet in the house, please.

                 Thank you.

                            Senator Schneiderman.







                                                          5889



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If the sponsor would yield to

                 a couple of questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino, would you yield for a

                 question from Senator Schneiderman?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    My pleasure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator

                 Marcellino, the hour is getting late and I

                 don't want to take too much time going over

                 the same territory.  But just to clarify

                 something that came up in the dialogue between

                 yourself and Senator Oppenheimer.

                            It is true, is it not, that a

                 substantial number of active ingredients in

                 pesticides that are used in New York State,

                 throughout New York State, have been

                 classified by the Environmental Protection

                 Agency as known, probable, likely, or possible

                 carcinogens, is it not?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    That's true.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And I take

                 it that your concern that you spoke about so







                                                          5890



                 eloquently, about the need for protecting

                 people from this spray, is motivated by the

                 fact that we suspect or know that pesticides

                 currently in use can cause -- pose health

                 hazards to people, particularly children; is

                 that not correct?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    What we're

                 doing with these things is we're saying to

                 people that there are labeled instructions on

                 the pesticides and the federal government

                 labels them, and it tells you how to use them.

                 And the manufacturers tell you how to use

                 them.  And the basic statement is if you use

                 them correctly, the federal government says it

                 it's okay.  If you have certain training with

                 certain types of chemicals, if these are

                 nonrestricted chemicals, then the average

                 homeowner can purchase them over the counter.

                 Again, there are labeled instructions on these

                 things.

                            Part of this legislation basically

                 says that a store would put up a sign saying

                 "Read the labels.  Make sure you use the







                                                          5891



                 pesticides according to the labeled

                 instructions."  If you do so, according to the

                 manufacturer and according to the federal

                 government, these things are safe to use.

                            This bill is designed to allow a

                 homeowner to be proactive and take precautions

                 and protect as they see fit when a neighbor's

                 trees are being sprayed.  This is what we're

                 trying to do.  We're not trying to cure cancer

                 here.  That's for other people.  What we're

                 trying to do is to let people take protections

                 and protective actions to defend themselves.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino, would you continue to

                 yield to a question from Senator Schneiderman?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    With

                 reference to the study by Environmental

                 Advocates and the New York Public Interest

                 Research Group that you referred to earlier,

                 the study relating to the gross quantities -







                                                          5892



                 or the comments related to the gross

                 quantities of pesticides used in New York City

                 and other counties in the downstate area, that

                 included pesticides used inside buildings in

                 the city of New York, did it not?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I believe

                 so.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And in

                 fact, when it comes to the things that are

                 actually covered by this legislation before

                 us, which relates to the spraying of outside

                 areas, if you -- there are many other counties

                 other than the counties of the city of New

                 York where more outside spray pesticides are

                 used than the counties of the city of New

                 York; is that not true?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I don't know

                 what's used outside or inside in other

                 counties for a fact.

                            But what I can state, as I refer

                 back to this report -- whether you agree with

                 it or not, the report says downstate urban and

                 suburban counties report more pesticide use

                 than rural and other upstate counties.  And

                 they specifically name Westchester, Nassau,







                                                          5893



                 Suffolk, and the counties of New York City.

                 Those are covered by this bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    But -- if

                 the sponsor will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino, will you continue to yield

                 to Senator Schneiderman for a question?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I'd hate

                 to lose Senator Oppenheimer's support based on

                 geography here for a well-intentioned piece of

                 legislation.  It is not -- there's no magic

                 line that -- where Westchester -- I see

                 Senator Spano is very excited about

                 Westchester being included in this, and I

                 appreciate why.

                            When you get to Putnam County, you

                 get to Rockland County, the lawns being







                                                          5894



                 sprayed in those counties pose as much danger

                 to their neighbors as in the counties covered

                 by this bill, do they not?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The article

                 that you're talking about, the report that

                 you're talking about goes on on page 4 and

                 says basically Nassau and Suffolk Counties,

                 for example, had a wider range of heavily used

                 products, many of them lawn-care products

                 combined with fertilizers.  It follows up with

                 the same thing with the downstate area and the

                 suburban counties.

                            We are covering two-thirds of the

                 state or two-thirds of the population of the

                 state, Senator.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I guess

                 my -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, thank

                 you.  If the sponsor would continue to yield.

                            My question, though, is if this is

                 something -- this is a permissive bill, is it

                 not, Senator?  This just permits local

                 governments to enact laws; is that not







                                                          5895



                 correct?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    It allows

                 them to opt into this plan.  They cannot write

                 their own laws.  They must take this proposal

                 and they must take this procedure, whatever

                 the state adopts.  The state has the right to

                 make the plans.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    But other

                 local governments in other parts of the state

                 are foreclosed under current law from adopting

                 such a procedure, or other, similar

                 procedures; is that not true?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    This state

                 empowers the counties that were mentioned in

                 it.  It does not unempower them, because they

                 don't have that right now.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Just to

                 clarify, though, under the existing case law

                 my understanding is that, for example, if

                 Rockland County, with the highest breast

                 cancer rate in the state, wanted to enact

                 these laws, it could not now, in the absence

                 of being included in this legislation.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator, we

                 said that at the very beginning.  Nassau







                                                          5896



                 County tried to enact its own spraying

                 legislation, and the courts struck it down.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So I think

                 that I -- Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I think

                 that this bill has many commendable provisions

                 in it.  I honestly do not understand why it

                 shouldn't be permissive for other counties in

                 the state.

                            And in accordance with that, I

                 believe there's an amendment at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Yes,

                 there is, Senator Schneiderman.  Will you give

                 us a moment to review the amendment?

                            Senator Schneiderman, I've reviewed

                 your amendment and found it to be germane.

                 The reading is waived, and you may speak on

                 the amendment.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President, on the amendment.

                            All this amendment does is take the

                 provisions of this bill which are permissive

                 and allow local governments to protect -- to







                                                          5897



                 opt into this scheme to provide for some

                 notification.

                            And Senator Oppenheimer's comments

                 indicate many people feel that the protections

                 in this bill may not go far enough.  It is a

                 step, though.  This would allow the other

                 counties in the state the benefit of this

                 legislation, allow them to opt in.

                            As Senator Oppenheimer pointed out,

                 the parts of the state with the

                 fastest-growing rates of cancer are not in the

                 counties covered by this.  As Senator

                 Oppenheimer pointed out and as I also

                 mentioned, the report that designates the

                 counties that are included in this bill, when

                 you take out the gross amounts of pesticides

                 that are actually sprayed indoors and are not

                 covered by the bill, the New York City

                 counties fall out.

                            And if you look at the real problem

                 that's addressed by this bill, people spraying

                 their lawns without notification, it's really

                 the other suburban counties and urban counties

                 upstate where the biggest problem is.

                            And I do not understand how you can







                                                          5898



                 support this bill and watch Senator Spano's

                 laudable enthusiasm for having his county

                 included in and say to the citizens of Monroe

                 County, "You're not allowed to opt into this,

                 you're not allowed to provide for

                 notification." Much less the citizens of

                 Rockland County.

                            We keep hearing the expression

                 "downstate."  Well, downstate -- I mean,

                 listen, I had the occasion to walk some lawns

                 and go door to door in Rockland County

                 recently, and I observed pesticides being

                 sprayed.  Why shouldn't the people of Rockland

                 County, with the highest breast cancer rate in

                 the state, have the opportunity of

                 notification, as people are going to in other

                 counties?

                            So my amendment simply extends this

                 permissive legislation to the rest of the

                 state so that we can allow other counties,

                 including the areas with the highest-growing

                 cancer rates -- including areas where,

                 according to the very report Senator

                 Marcellino referred to, when you take out the

                 indoor applications in New York City, you have







                                                          5899



                 higher gross amounts of pesticides being

                 sprayed than you do in the counties covered by

                 this bill -- to opt into this scheme.

                            I think it's a friendly and good

                 amendment to a well-intentioned piece of

                 legislation that is an important step forward.

                 And I would urge that we not discriminate

                 against the citizens of Rockland County,

                 Putnam County, and all the counties above

                 those two counties and to the west of those

                 two counties.

                            And I note that there are some

                 counties that in this report have

                 extraordinarily high levels of pesticides,

                 whether you accept all of the results or not,

                 that would not be covered here, including

                 Orange County, including Erie County.

                 Rockland County I've already mentioned.  I

                 think we have to allow them to opt in.

                            And therefore, I would move this

                 amendment and urge everyone to vote yes.

                 Let's pass a bill that covers the whole state.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 question is on the amendment.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.







                                                          5900



                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Party vote in

                 the affirmative.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Party vote in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 secretary will call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 24.  Nays,

                 36.  Party vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 amendment is defeated.

                            Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I think

                 that there is a dilemma that people who are

                 reviewing this bill now in its current form

                 face.  I do think that it sends a serious and

                 problematic message to provide for an optional

                 scheme to some local governments and not to

                 others.  I think it's not a good way for us to

                 proceed, particularly when -- based on my







                                                          5901



                 reading of the data.

                            And I think -- Senator Marcellino

                 has referred to a report by to organizations

                 that I have a lot of respect for,

                 Environmental Advocates and the Public

                 Interest Research Group.  When I read the

                 report, I don't really see the distinction

                 that he's talking about, because of the factor

                 of indoor pesticides.

                            I think that there are many people

                 who feel, environmentalists who feel that we

                 should provide a comprehensive, statewide

                 program that goes further than this.

                            However, I think that the

                 provisions in this bill are a good first step.

                 And that's why it troubles me so greatly that

                 we are excluding some of the areas of the

                 state where lawns are being sprayed and where

                 all of the incidents that you described -- or

                 the problems that Senator Spano described that

                 make him so excited that Westchester is

                 included in this -- exist today.

                            And I think it's a real shame that

                 this legislation does not include Rockland

                 County, Putnam County.  If you're going to







                                                          5902



                 include downstate, let's include all of

                 downstate and not discriminate.

                            And I think that the drafters of

                 the bill and the leadership really in this

                 case has done a disservice to the other areas

                 of the suburbs that I think everyone has to

                 acknowledge need regulation and neighbor

                 notification of this type.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like to just speak on the bill, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Balboni, on the bill.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    I think it's

                 important, when we take the opportunity to

                 advance a measure that has not seen this floor

                 before by a Majority member, to put the bill

                 into context.

                            As much as we have heard from

                 people who have concerns about the bill, about

                 studies and about poisons and about

                 pesticides, the reality of this bill is that

                 there's going to be no empirical way of







                                                          5903



                 determining that this bill has saved one life,

                 has reduced one person's exposure to

                 pesticides.

                            And that's because pesticides and

                 the pesticide treatment and cancer and breast

                 cancer are things that continue to elude us in

                 solution.  We have been frightened on Long

                 Island for a very long time with the rate of

                 breast cancer, prostate cancer, ovarian

                 cancer.  But when we try to search for the

                 solutions, there is no bright line, there is

                 no final cause.

                            So what are we doing here?  We are

                 chipping away.  We are trying to search for

                 answers that make sense, things that will both

                 accommodate the concerns in this case of the

                 farming communities with the suburban

                 communities and the urban communities.

                            What Carl Marcellino has done today

                 is such a common practice in the practice of

                 law.  There's an old saying that in a contract

                 negotiation, if both sides are unhappy just a

                 little bit with the result, then it's a good

                 result.  Because in a negotiation, both sides

                 have to give something up.







                                                          5904



                            I have considered my

                 environmental -- my personal environmental

                 record on my votes for the last ten years to

                 be a great source of pride.  But I'll tell you

                 now on this floor, I don't understand where

                 some of the advocates are coming from.  You

                 mean to tell me because it's not the bill that

                 everybody wants, you vote against it?  Because

                 it doesn't go far enough, so suddenly we

                 should discard it?

                            That is accepting a premise that is

                 frankly unacceptable.  This is a courageous

                 act by my colleague from Long Island, because

                 of all the heat he's getting because it just

                 doesn't go far enough or it goes too far.

                            But in reality, Mr. President, what

                 we're doing today is trying as best we can

                 with a human-made system that is imperfect at

                 best to define the conduct by our pesticide

                 applicators that will give people notice so

                 they can protect themselves.  And anybody who

                 says information is bad, well, you just don't

                 get it.

                            This is an important measure, but

                 it won't be the last when it comes to this







                                                          5905



                 issue.  It may not be the best, but it comes

                 from a man who believes very passionately in

                 trying to provide the best information

                 possible.

                            Mr. President, I plan on voting yes

                 and working for greater solutions in the

                 future.  Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Thank

                 you, Senator.  Read the last section.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    I'm

                 sorry, Senator Morahan, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Mr. President,

                 I had asked that serious consideration be

                 given to the inclusion of Rockland County to

                 this measure.  I came here, as many know, at

                 the closing hours of this session.  And

                 unfortunately, it was a little bit too late

                 for me to get that done.

                            I did get a commitment, and all

                 should know, that if -- we can opt into this

                 in the next session.  And that the -- I have

                 already sent letters to both county executives

                 of the two counties that I represent, to the

                 chairmen of the two legislatures that I







                                                          5906



                 represent, to the majority and minority

                 leaders of the two legislatures that I

                 represent, asking them to develop the home

                 rule legislation that I will need to get

                 Rockland County included into this program.

                            I just wanted to say that for the

                 record.  Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 March.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    I'm

                 sorry, Senator LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    To explain my

                 vote, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Mr. President,

                 much of what I wanted to say was said by

                 Senator Spano, who articulated the position

                 very, very well.







                                                          5907



                            But I just wanted to pick up from

                 what Senator Balboni talked about and

                 compliment Senator Marcellino for his efforts

                 in bringing this bill before us.  It's a

                 positive bill.  It's a bill that has many

                 positive things that Long Islanders and other

                 people who are included in this bill really

                 want.

                            Lastly, it's to his credit that he

                 has carried this bill.  Many years ago I had

                 an opportunity to bring people together at a

                 luncheon meeting with Assemblyman DiNapoli,

                 the Assembly sponsor, and I thought we had

                 made a great deal of headway.  But some of the

                 stakeholders got involved in this bill and

                 made it very difficult to negotiate and bring

                 this to a conclusion.

                            So, Senator Marcellino, you are to

                 be congratulated for your efforts in bringing

                 this bill, your stick-to-it-iveness in

                 bringing this bill before the house.

                            I vote aye, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Stachowski, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.







                                                          5908



                 President, in explaining my vote, I just

                 wanted to say the check's in the mail.  I vote

                 no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Stachowski will be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            Senator LaValle will be recorded in

                 the affirmative.

                            Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Mr. President,

                 I rise to explain my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Padavan, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    I think Senator

                 LaValle said it extremely well in terms of

                 pointing to Senator Marcellino and saying that

                 he did a yeoman's job in getting this bill

                 before us.

                            Is it everything we would want?

                 No.  I don't know how many things that we do

                 here are.  Does it cover every part of the

                 state?  No.  But at least it gives an

                 opportunity to move forward in a direction

                 that we have not been moving forward on.

                            On behalf of the people of New York







                                                          5909



                 City who are covered, all five boroughs, in

                 terms of the benefits of this legislation, I

                 thank Senator Marcellino for his hard work.

                 It was a very, very difficult task.  Most

                 people don't know how difficult it was.

                            And so I vote aye and thank Senator

                 Marcellino again.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Padavan will be recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            Senator Oppenheimer, to explain

                 your vote.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    This is a

                 one-house bill.  That's principally the thing

                 I am objecting to the most.

                            I want to see some action on this.

                 It's that I have not seen action, I have not

                 seen the conference committee.  I voted for

                 this bill when we had our En Con meeting,

                 committee meeting.  I want to see something

                 happen.

                            And I do applaud Senator Marcellino

                 for coming -- and coming to this point.  But

                 the fact is, it's a one-house bill.  We have

                 no action.  And what I'm praying for is some







                                                          5910



                 action.  We need a notification bill.  We need

                 it for the whole state.  But we need it as

                 soon as possible.

                            I'm voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Oppenheimer will be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            Senator Marcellino, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 Chairman, just briefly.

                            I would suggest that if we want

                 action, if we want activity, if we'd like a

                 better bill, the way to go -- the way not to

                 go is to vote against this bill.  Voting

                 against this bill says no to protecting

                 two-thirds or at least offering the protection

                 to two-thirds of the people in this state.

                            Is this bill perfection, as

                 mentioned before?  No.  But by rejecting it

                 and calling it a detriment to the environment

                 I think is disingenuous at best.

                            I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Marcellino will be recorded in the







                                                          5911



                 affirmative.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.  We apologize for the confusion over

                 Senator Markowitz's vote.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.  Nays,

                 20.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Nozzolio, would you place a

                 sponsor star on Senate Bill 5590A, Calendar

                 1493.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    So

                 ordered.  The bill is starred.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 could we return to the regular -- could we

                 return to the regular calendar -

                            Mr. President, could we have some

                 order in the chamber.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Can we







                                                          5912



                 please have some order in the chamber.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Could we return

                 to the regular calendar and call up Calendar

                 871, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 871, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4218A, an

                 act to amend the Judiciary Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2 -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    In the

                 briefest form possible, could Senator Lack

                 explain to us what the assignment of debt

                 known as champerty is?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    May we

                 please have some quiet.

                            Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Mr. President, I will attempt very







                                                          5913



                 shortly to explain champerty.  And in keeping

                 with the admonition I've just gotten, I will

                 explain it very shortly.

                            Champerty first became a statute in

                 New York in 1809.  It's an archaic English

                 common-law title which pertains to the

                 purchasing of claims purely for the

                 commencement of lawsuits.

                            We are faced today with an

                 amendment to current Section 489 of the

                 Judiciary Law.  The need for the amendment,

                 which is really a clarification in terms of

                 the scope of the statute, arises because of an

                 extant federal court proceeding and a decision

                 recently by Judge Sweet of the Southern

                 District of New York, to which we are replying

                 to in kind in terms of its effect on our

                 champerty statute.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This







                                                          5914



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 871 are

                 Senators Breslin, DeFrancisco, Farley, Kuhl,

                 and Nozzolio.  Ayes, 55.  Nays, 5.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Did they get us

                 as negative?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    On the

                 last bill, Senator, you want to be recorded in

                 the negative?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    With

                 out objection.

                            Senator Kuhl also recorded in the

                 negative.  Without objection, so ordered.

                            Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    I also wish to be

                 recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    On the







                                                          5915



                 last bill?

                            SENATOR RATH:    On the last bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Rath, without objection, will be

                 recorded in the negative on 871.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    May I ask that

                 a notation be made of the fact that in the

                 last -- Calendar Number 1462, that my vote

                 should be recorded in the affirmative?  I'm

                 not certain that I heard -- I was out of the

                 chamber when the roll was called.  But I wish

                 to be recorded in the affirmative.  Is that

                 clear?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    With

                 out objection, so ordered.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 what does that make the final -- we never read

                 the names of the negatives, so I'm just







                                                          5916



                 wondering what that makes the final vote

                 tally.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    On

                 which calendar, Senator Paterson?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Calendar 1462.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 Secretary will read the negatives on Calendar

                 1462 and announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1462 are

                 Senators Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, Duane,

                 Gonzales -- Senator Goodman going to the

                 affirmative -- Senators Kruger, Lachman,

                 Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato,

                 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Rosado, Sampson,

                 Schneiderman, Seabrook, Smith, and Stachowski.

                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 19.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Thank

                 you, Senator Paterson.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, is







                                                          5917



                 there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Nozzolio, I wish to call up

                 his bill, Print Number 3776A, recalled from

                 the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 578, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3776A,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The







                                                          5918



                 amendments are received.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 page Number 33 I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 1068, on behalf

                 of Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5206B, and

                 ask that said bill retain its place on the

                 Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bill will

                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, if

                 there are any substitutions, could we have

                 those at this time, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    The

                 Secretary will read the substitutions.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 22,

                 Senator Volker moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 6238 and

                 substitute it for the identical third reading,

                 810.







                                                          5919



                            On page 30, Senator Volker moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill 8561A and substitute it for the

                 identical third reading, 991.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Mendez.

                            SENATOR MENDEZ:    Mr. President,

                 there will be a Minority conference tomorrow

                 at 10:00 a.m. in Room 314.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    There

                 will be a Minority conference tomorrow at

                 10:00 a.m. in Room 134.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Oh, I just

                 wanted to wish you a good evening,

                 Mr. President.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    Thank

                 you, Senator Paterson.

                            Again, we apologize for the

                 confusion caused by Senator Markowitz.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

                 Senator Meier.







                                                          5920



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 there will be a meeting of the Rules Committee

                 tomorrow morning at 9:30 a.m. in the Majority

                 Conference Room.  That will be followed at

                 10:00 a.m. by a meeting of the Majority

                 conference.

                            And at this time, there being no

                 further business, I move the Senate stand

                 adjourned until Thursday, June 17th, at

                 10:30 a.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:    There

                 will be a meeting of the Rules Committee

                 tomorrow morning at 9:30 a.m. in Room 332.

                            There will be a Majority conference

                 at 10:00 a.m. in Room 332.

                            Without objection, the Senate

                 stands adjourned until 10:30 tomorrow,

                 June 17th.

                            (Whereupon, at 8:09 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)