Regular Session - August 4, 1999
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NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE
STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
August 4, 1999
1:18 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and recite with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: The invocation
today will be given by the Reverend Peter G.
Young, the pastor of the Blessed Sacrament
Church in Bolton Landing, New York.
REVEREND YOUNG: Let us pray, on
this beautiful August day to ask You, Oh Lord,
that You bless us by Your presence and Your
blessings of time together in this summer
session.
We have come to express our concern
about the welfare our country and our
community, of our state, to learn from each
other, to grow in spirit and in character, to
find Your will for our lives and our
neighborhoods.
We thank you for the opportunity in
this country to assemble and to be a part of
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the process here in this Senate Chamber.
Grant us the wisdom to carry out
the decisions that are within Your will.
Bless us as we continue to conduct our
business with dignity and in sensitive ways.
Amen.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
Reading of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Tuesday, August 3rd, the Senate met pursuant
to adjournment. The Journal of Monday August
2nd was read and approved. On motion Senate
adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without object
the Journal stands approved as read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
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adopt the Resolution Calendar in its entirety
at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: The motion is to
adopt the resolution calendar, all in favor,
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could have
an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
SENATOR SKELOS: Could we stand
at ease pending the report of the Rules
Committee.
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands
at ease.
(Whereupon the Senate stood at ease
from 1:21 p.m.)
(Whereupon the Senate reconvened at
1:32 p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator
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Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Higher Education
Committee in the Majority Conference room.
ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Higher
Education Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
(Whereupon the Senate stood at ease
from 1:33 p.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
at 1:45 p.m.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
come to order.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could return to reports of standing
committee, I believe there is a report of the
Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be
read at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Reports of
Standing Committees. The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
from the Committee on Rules reports the
following bills:
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Senate Print 3080A, by Senator
Saland, an act to amend the Public Health Law;
4252, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
2825C, by Senator Meier, an act to
authorize the Potsdam School District;
5258B, by Senator Rath, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
4927B, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend the State Finance Law and others;
5920A, by Senator Goodman, an act
to amend the General Municipal Law;
5208C, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Education Law;
1533B, by Senator Goodman, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the
Administrative Code of the City of New York;
3492B, by Senator Maziarz, an act
to amend the Social Services Law;
5651A, by Senator Spano, an act to
authorize the City of Yonkers;
5829, by the Senate Committee on
Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;
5936, by Senator Hannon, an act to
amend the Public Health Law;
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6024, by Senator Bruno, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6053, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
6057, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend the Court of Claims Act;
6010, by Senator Meier, an act
authorizing the Commissioner of General
Services;
6090, by Senator Mendez, an act to
authorize the City of New York; and
2686A, by Senator Stachowski, an
act relating to authorizing.
All bills ordered direct for third
reading.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Can we adopt the
report of the Rules Committee, Madam
President.
THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of
adopting the report of the Rules Committee,
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
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THE PRESIDENT: The report is
accepted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could up Calendar Number 59 at this
time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 316, Senator Saland moves to
discharge from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 6386B, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 316.
THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
316, by Member of the Assembly Schimminger,
Assembly Print Number 6386B, an act to amend
the Public Health Law.
THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered. The Secretary will read. Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect December 31.
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THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
563, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4252, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law in
relation to the designation.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays
one. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1102, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 2825C, an
act to authorize the Potsdam School District.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
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act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1162, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5258B, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law in
relation to the powers.
THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
rule message at the desk. Read the last
section.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay the bill
aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calender Number
1316, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4927B,
an act to amend the State Finance Law and
others.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
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THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1450, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5920A,
an act to amend the General Municipal Law and
Chapter 130 the Laws of 1998.
THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect July 1.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1547, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5208C,
an act to amend the Education Law in relation
to the illegal practice of dentistry.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect in one year.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
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(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1646, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1533B,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law
and the Administrative Code of the City of New
York.
SENATOR VELELLA: Lay it aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1647, Senator Maziarz moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 6407C, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1647.
THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered. The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1647, by Member of the Assembly Kaufman,
Assembly Print Number 6407C, an act to amend
the Social Services Law in relation to
authorizing.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
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section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1649, Senator Spano moves to
discharge from Committee on Rules, Assembly
Bill Number 8447A, and substitute it for the
identical Third Reading Calendar 1649.
THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1649, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8447A, an act to
authorize the City of Yonkers.
THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
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THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1650, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
Print Number 5829, an act to amend the Tax Law
in relation to extending.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays 1.
Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1651, Senator Hannon moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 8851, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1651.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
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THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
The substitution is ordered. The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1651, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8851, an act to amend
the Public Health Law.
SENATOR DUANE: Laid it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1652, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6024, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law in
relation to the Town of Clifton Park.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
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THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1653, Senator Skelos moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly
Print Number 6343 and substitute it for the
identical Third Reading Calendar 1653.
THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1653, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,
Assembly Print Number 6343, an act to amend
the Retirement and Social Security Law in
relation to service.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1654, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6057, an
act to amend the Court of Claims Act in
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relation to service of process.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the same date as such
chapter.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1663, Senator Meier moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8863, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1663.
THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1663 by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8863, an act authorizing
the Commissioner of General Services.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
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THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1664, by Senator Mendez, Senate Print 6090, an
act to authorize the City of New York to grant
real property tax exemption.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1665, Senator Stachowski moves
to discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 4770A, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1665.
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THE PRESIDENT: The substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calender Number
1665 by Member of the Assembly Tokaz, Assembly
Print Number 4770A, an act relating to
authorizing the Chattauqua Maryville.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed. Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the non-controversial calendar.
Senator LaValle.
SENATOR LaVALLE: I'm sorry, Madam
President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Can we go to the
controversial calendar and start with Senator
Stafford's bill, Senate Calendar 1316.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
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will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1316 by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4927B,
an act to amend the State Finance Law and
others.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
President, I apologize.
This bill passed 59 to nothing and
then it was negotiated with the Assembly on
some wording, and what it is, it really puts
the accounting of the State into the twentieth
century and follows the principles of good
acting principles, GAP and all these new
fangled alphabetized rules that we now have to
follow.
It is a professional bill is what
it is.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
6786
THE SECRETARY: Section 15. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed. Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
please call up Calendar Number 1646.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1646 by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1533B,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law
and the Administrative Code of the City of New
York.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Goodman,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lets lay the
bill aside temporarily.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside, Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
could we call up Senator Hannon's bill,
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Calendar Number 1651.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1651, substituted earlier today, by the
Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print
Number 8851, an act to amend the Public Health
Law.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR HANNON: Lay it aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside, Senator.
Senator Skelos.
THE SECRETARY: Why don't we try
Senator Rath's bill, Calendar Number 1162.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
Senator. The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1162 by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5258B, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR SKELOS: We'll lay it
6788
aside temporarily and I urge the members on
both of the aisle to please come to the
chamber so that when bills are called if you
want to debate them or if you want to respond
to the questions that you are here so that we
may adjourn at a reasonable hour today.
Thank you, Senator Stachowski, for
reminding me to make that statement.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside temporarily, Senator.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Finance Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
(Whereupon the Senate stood at ease
at 2:04 p.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
at 2:20 p.m.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could call
up Senator Goodman's bill, Calendar Number
1646.
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THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1646, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1533B,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law
and the Administrative Code of the City of New
York.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Goodman,
an explanation has been requested.
Senator Goodman.
SENATOR GOODMAN: Good afternoon
Madam Lieutenant Governor. Good to see you.
A short while ago, Madam President,
a tragedy occurred in my district which I
think gives ample justification for this bill.
A mother with a baby carriage and a child in
the baby carriage was crossing a street in
close proximity to my home when the car ran a
red light, dragged the baby carriage five
blocks, killed the child and very nearly
killed the mother in the process.
The process of red light running
causes an extreme danger to people,
pedestrians particularly, all around the City
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of New York. And this bill proposes to offset
that with a deterrent that I think is
exceptionally effective and is proven so in
its use to date. That deterrent relates to
the use of red light cameras, which are at
strategic high traffic locations in the City
and which result in the taking of a picture of
cars that go through red lights through an
automatic photographic process. The result is
a photo of the license plate of the car that
goes through and frequently the driver of the
car is included in the photo. And this
results in summonses being mailed to the owner
of the car identified by the license plate and
appropriate penalties being enacted.
The camera records an average of 22
violations per day. The number of red light
violations has declined by 41 percent at the
intersections being monitored. The program is
a success from the adjudication standpoint
with fewer people challenging tickets they
receive and more people being found guilty
when they do challenge their tickets.
For all of these reasons it seems
to be compellingly obvious that this is a
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measure that is designed to increase public
safety and to diminish law breaking by running
red lights, which is an exceptionally
dangerous practice and which certainly has
been diminished with the introduction of
yellow lights, but unfortunately we have a
number of "A" types in the population and for
those of you familiar with this psychological
phenomenon, an "A" type is someone who steps
on the accelerator when the light turns yellow
rather than stepping on the brakes.
So we hope that there will be a
discontinuance of this synaptic lapse and that
when you see a yellow light your impulse will
be to step on the brake rather than the
accelerator thus saving many lives.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: Madam
President, on the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Senator
Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: Madam
President, I am not an expert on "A" type of
personalities and I do not know all of these
complicated definitions that Roy is talking
6792
about -- Senator Goodman talking about.
What I do know is that in order to
maintain order in the City of New York and
have some kind of traffic control devices,
Senator Goodman feels that we need to have
these cameras observing what is going on.
Let me tell you that I sympathize
with the people who were injured by red light
runners, but I don't believe that somebody who
passed a red light and dragged a baby carriage
four blocks is going to be deterred because he
might think that there is a camera there.
The major fact is that these
cameras are hidden away and most people don't
know that they are there. The fact of the
matter is I have had numerous people come to
my office and complain about being wrongly
accused, having the photograph show that did
not pass the red light and being told by some
administrator, who makes believe he is some
type of a judge trying to administer some type
of justice that in fact, if you have a problem
with this photograph, come on down and lose a
day's pay and fight the ticket or else you can
pay a $50 fine and it will not go on your
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license.
Now, I don't believe that that is
at all even trying to get close to
administering justice. I think that this is a
procedure that has been used wrongfully
against people within my district. I think it
is wrong to have these cameras there. I think
it is the beginning of Big Brother. We have
had proposals that these cameras be put on the
Thruway so that people speeding can receive
tickets and they won't have to pay -- it won't
go on their license but they will have to pay
a fine. It is just a way to raise revenue and
put another tax on the people of this State.
People visit my City from Nassau.
People visit the City from Westchester, from
all of the areas and they are getting these
tickets and it is a revenue raiser. I think
it is wrong. If we have to police our streets
and enforce the traffic law, lets hire more
cops and more traffic enforcement agents.
Lets not spy on the people.
I urge the defeat of this bill and
I will vote against it.
THE PRESIDENT: There is a home
6794
rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Sections 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1646 are;
Senators Hoffman, Kuhl, Larkin, Maltese,
Marcellino, Onorato, Rosato, Sampson,
Schneiderman, Skelos, Spano and Velella.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lachman.
THE SECRETARY: Also Senators
Lachman and Nozzolio.
Ayes 38, nays 14.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed. Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
would you please call up Senator Rath's bill,
Calendar Number 1162.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1162, Senate Print 5258B, an act to amend the
Public Authorities Law.
6795
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath,
Senator Dollinger has requested an
explanation.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
Senator Dollinger, the bill in front of us
passed here on June 17th, the last day that we
were proceeding in the beginning of our
session, the end of the beginning I guess
rather than the end of the end. And it passed
here on the non-controversial calendar.
And of course the bill is to allow
the Monroe County Water Authority to act as
the facilitator for the developmental of a
water system in Genesee County, which may take
ten years to build a complete system, but it
is the beginning of bringing water over from
Monroe and up from Erie or east from Erie, if
you will, to meet hopefully some where in the
center of Genesee County, very highly planned
according or with the mind -- with the thought
in mind that they can not squander their farm
lands, they can't turn this into a free for
all of laterals going off every where. There
6796
is some very specify economic development
goals that are in mind. There are some very
specific features that will be addressed where
there are ground water problems because there
are some ground water problems in Genesee
County. They have a real need for fresh and
potable water.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
President, I am having a difficult time
hearing Senator Rath.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath, if
you could speak up. Thank you.
SENATOR RATH: I am so rarely
asked to speak up. And I probably don't need
the microphone if I decide to speak up. Is
that enough?
THE PRESIDENT: To clarify,
Senator, I think it was more the noise in the
chamber rather than your tone of voice.
SENATOR RATH: I see. Thank you,
Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Your welcome.
SENATOR RATH: Some say I should
have been on the stage with this loud booming
voice. My children hate it when I do this to
6797
them. However, all of that aside, what
changed was two amendments by the Assembly
talking about -- and they brought them in
after we finished with our bill in this house
and the amendments, one of them offered
minority business status when it was
appropriate and the other was a pro forma
piece that we had no objection to, it was just
a matter of getting it amended and getting it
on our calendar correctly so that we could act
on it.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, if Senator Rath would just
yield to a couple questions?
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath,
would you yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this
proposal consistent with a regional
development plan for western New York?
SENATOR RATH: You bet it is,
Senator Dollinger. Genesee County, as you
know, is strategically located between Monroe
6798
and Erie with the Thruway cutting right
through the middle of it. There are all kinds
of opportunities and many companies have
looked at Genesee County because it has so
much to offer. It is a bedroom community on
the western side of it for some Erie County
people and on the eastern side of it for
Monroe County people for Monday in the village
of Leroy. And it has all kinds of potential
but it needs water. It has serious problems
with ground water with the amount of supply it
can get and with the quality of ground water.
And water has been a number one
goal and focus for Genesee County for the five
years that I have been in the Senate and
before that it was kind of on the back burner
always ready to come to the front burner.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
other question for Senator Rath if she will
continue to yield.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Senator
6799
Dollinger, I believe she yielded to a few
questions.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does this
bill effect the rate at which people in
Genesee County will pay for their water? What
is --- is there an established rate?
SENATOR RATH: Factored into the
plan, and they planned at great length with I
think it was three different universities that
worked with them. There was Cornell and there
was UB and I'm trying to think of the third
school. They did a large number of studies
and they worked, and I insisted, that before I
was going to get involved with them on this
that they get a sign off from every one of
those towns. The City of Batavia is still
kind of doing a little of this because they
have got a municipal water system and they are
going back and forth some, but the rate was an
extremely important piece in this and yet they
were not able to fix the rate exactly until
they knew whether they were going to be able
to get some dollars and actually start to make
this happen and start with the consultant,
which by the way is from Monroe County, the
6800
consultant that is working with Genesee County
on this.
And so they have signed off because
they are in a framework that will be
agreeable.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Madam
President, through you, if Senator Rath will
continue to yield?
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath,
will you continue to yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed,
Senator.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question
really focuses on the language in the bill
that talks about the authority -- any services
provided by the Monroe County Water Authority
to anybody in Genesee County, it shall be
recovered solely from those in Genesee County.
My question is this, as you know,
we in Monroe County through our water system
financed a very substantial treatment plant
system, water withdrawal and pumping system.
Is there an allocations of what Genesee County
is going to pay for the overhead associated
6801
with the development of the entire Monroe
County Water Authority? Are they going to
contribute to the overall burden or just pay
for what is delivered to them?
SENATOR RATH: No, Monroe County
Water Authority has signed off totally on this
as being something that they want to do.
Selling water is something that both of our
counties, and I say both meaning Erie and
Monroe, they have the water authorities. Let
me double check with counsel though because he
has been at some of the meetings more than I
have.
Counsel advised me that the
language that you are talking about was put in
at the request of the Monroe County Water
Authority.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Madam President, just on the bill briefly.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I voted
against this bill back on June 17th. I am
going to vote against it again and let me
explain why.
6802
I was concerned then and I am still
concerned now about the consequences of the
expansion of the water supply for regional
growth.
I agree with Senator Rath that
there may be or that there are opportunities
available in the Genesee County. I believe
that the better resolution of those available
opportunities would be to steer them toward
the major population centers. I know Senator
Rath that to some extent that may come at my
benefit since I represent a large urban area
and contrary to yours in the sense that you
represent both an urban area and an extended
rural area, but I still believe that from a
smart growth perspective the thing to do would
be to drive those available jobs closer to the
population centers and to take our current
infrastructure and put the rehabilitation of
the current infrastructure to try to take
those jobs and move them closer to the
population centers.
I won't deny that there are certain
businesses that, because of their need to
serve two major metropolitan areas at the same
6803
time may find Batavia to be a better location
and may find parts of Genesee County along the
Thruway to be more likely as a depot or
warehouse facility. But I am concerned that
with moving down the road to expand water,
where water goes sewer goes and roads go, and
at least from my point of view I think that at
least based on my sense of Western New York
the smarter growth approach would be to try to
congregate those great economic opportunities
and those development opportunities in our
urban areas, either in Buffalo or in
Rochester. I have a strong preference, but I
believe that that is the better approach to
try to congregate those economic opportunities
in the population centers and I think so in
the long run if we spent more time working on
the rehabilitation of the water authority, and
I have no qualms about Mr. Stanwicks and his
work at the water authority, but I just
believe that this is the first step to
spreading out and branching out into perhaps
even less costly areas like Genesee County
economic opportunities that if we were going
to plan those regionally we would try to put
6804
them closer to our population centers.
So I understand why they are doing
this but I am afraid that this is a step down
an eventual road that will just sprawl between
Rochester and Buffalo when we will end up with
too few opportunities scattered along too
large a road rather than opportunities
congregated where our people really need them.
That is my view. I said it back on
June 17th. I appreciate the efforts of
passing this bill. I appreciate the
amendments. But I still believe that this is
putting the cart of water development above
the horse of economic development, which ought
to be congregated in our cities.
SENATOR RATH: If I may respond,
very briefly.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Senator, you have
hit on a hot button of course for me when you
talk about smart growth or maybe we'll call it
growing smart, growing New York or thinking
smart, think smart, think New York.
We are starting from a platform on
this issue this year with some dollars in the
6805
budget, as you know, and you have hit on the
point where as chair of the Local Government
Committee I will have to act responsibly for
both sides of the point that you have raised.
And Genesee County may end up being the poster
child for I believe it will be how to do it
right, you are saying that if you don't know
if we can do it right doing it this way and I
appreciate what your saying. And I understand
why your voting no, but I did want to say stay
tuned because this is just the beginning.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
There is a home rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Sections 11.
This act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 1.
Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6806
passed.
Senator DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would like
to request unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1646.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, Senator you will be so recorded as
voting in the negative.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I would like
to request unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on 1646, please.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, Senator Fuschillo, you will be so
recorded in the negative.
Senator LaValle.
SENATOR LaVALLE: May I have
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar Number 1646?
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, Senator LaValle, you will be so
recorded as voting in the negative.
Senator Gentile.
SENATOR GENTILE: Madam
President, I would ask unanimous consent to be
6807
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1650.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, Senator Gentile, you will be so
recorded as voting in the negative.
SENATOR GENTILE: On 1650.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, on 1650.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
call up Senator Hannon's bill, Calendar Number
1651.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1651, substituted earlier today by the
Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print
Number 8851, an act to amend the Public Health
Law.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
President, I would dispense with an
explanation since I believe Senator Hannon and
I have had a conversation. I would just like
6808
to put one question on the record, if I may,
if Senator Hannon will continue to yield?
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon,
do you yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Madam President,
maybe just so the record is complete I can
explain the thrust of the bill so that -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will ask
for an explanation then, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon,
Senator Dollinger has requested an
explanation.
SENATOR HANNON: Thank you, Madam
President.
This is a implementation of the
tobacco master settlement agreement that has
been negotiated by the attorney generals
against of the 50 states, actually really only
47 of those states, with the major tobacco
companies.
It is a fairly complicated
agreement, but it is easy to say how important
it is. I point out that New York State will
receive twenty-five billion dollars over
approximately 25 years from the tobacco
6809
manufacturers in settlement of the suits that
have been brought against them.
As part of that settlement there
was contemplated the fact that some tobacco
manufacturers not currently in existence or
not currently the owners of the companies that
are producing these products would come about
and come into the market in New York State.
The attorney generals had recommended an
alternative mechanism, namely an escrow fund
so that non participating tobacco
manufacturers who had not been parties to the
suit would be required to pay money into an
escrow fund in accordance with a formula that
is reflective of those participating
manufacturers. And a manufacturer who placed
funds in escrow would not be entitled to that
money unless the interest was generated, B,
there was a judgment or settlement to be paid
to New York State, or C, funds exceeded the
amount that a manufacturer would have had to
pay if it had been a participating tobacco
manufacturer, or finally, the funds had been
on deposit for over 25 years.
This statute is similar but has
6810
been modified so that the tax and finance
aspects of the State Law are conformed with,
but it is similar to statutes being passed in
all other states. For that reason it will
unable the state to go forward with the
receipt of the moneys when they become
available in our next fiscal year.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator
Hannon will yield to a couple questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon
will you yield?
SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Madam
President.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: And they are
both of the rather technical variety. The
first one, Senator Hannon is, is this a 25
year rolling account? In other words, you put
in a million dollars the first year and 25
years later you get your million bucks back,
or do you get everything you put into the
account in the 25 year period?
6811
SENATOR HANNON: From the way it
is worded I believe it is rolling so that it
is 25 years later.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay, 25
years later you get out what you put in, that
way there is always money there.
SENATOR HANNON: That is the
intent.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. And
the second question, Madam President, I did
have a brief chance to talk with Senator
Hannon, but I will just put it on the record.
My concern here is that these
escrow funds will remain in the hands and
under the control of the non participating
manufacturer who is not a signatory to the
agreement but, nonetheless, is putting these
funds in escrow in anticipation that we would
bring an action against them to recover their
proportionate to cost of the Medicaid losses
we have sustained as a result of tobacco.
My question is, to what extend does
this bill at all shelter those funds in the
event of bankruptcy by the participating
manufacturer since they are still under their
6812
control, or is there anything in this law that
or under the debtor creditor law that we could
do to shelter those funds so that other
creditors would not be able to have access to
those funds or there would be no distribution
in bankruptcy?
SENATOR HANNON: To the extent
that this is a specific statute placing those
money in escrow I would say that that takes
precedence over any other state statutes, New
York State statute.
To the extent that it would effect
preferences, pay outs and priorities under the
federal bankruptcy statute, we can not effect
that because that is federal law. In that
regard I know that there is legislation
pending that would exempt from sheltering
under the federal bankruptcy law those
obligations of a tobacco manufacturer so that
in the event one of the manufacturers were to
go bankrupt it would change federal law and
make that obligation to make the payments
under the master settlement still due and
owing to each of the specific states.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
6813
Madam President and Senator Hannon for the
explanation.
I'm going to vote in favor of this
bill as it has been explained by the Chairman
of the Health Committee and in the memorandum.
It is the right thing to do to
cover all our bases to eliminate the
possibility that is even references in the
master settlement agreement that there may be
other non participating manufacturers come
into the market place and are sheltered from
the consequences of the tobacco settlement
with the named defendants and the named
tobacco companies and I think Senator Hannon,
and aye I think the point about pending
federal legislation making sure that we do
everything that we can to preserve this escrow
amount in the event that this company comes in
and sells cigarettes in our market place we
ought to have protection from the federal
bankruptcy laws, make it secure, and we also
should, and as I think you point out, it is
probably preempted by federal law. But there
maybe something we could do under our debtor
creditor laws to protect that and to keep the
6814
corpus of those moneys available for the State
of New York so that if we do sue them and do
recover there is a pot of money there to pay
for it.
The other thing I would just do is
comment Senator Hannon. I know that in this
budget we have put the tobacco settlement
funds into an escrow account, into a locked
box, they key to which lies with the members
of the Legislature in conjunction with the
Governor, and I think that twenty-five billion
dollars we may have a vigorous debate about
its future, but it is good to know that the
cash is running into a box which the
participants in the chamber will hold in part
the key to.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
6815
passed. Senator Saland.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam
President.
I would like to request unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 1646, Senate 1533B.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Saland,
without objection, you will be so recorded as
voting in the negative.
Senate Skelos, that completes the
reading of the controversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to reports of Standing
Committees, I think that Senator Stafford,
Chair of the Finance Committee has a wonderful
report for us.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
Senator. Senator Stafford. The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following nominations:
As a member of the State Board of
Parole, Vernon C. Manley of New York city.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
6816
SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you,
Madam President.
As Senator Skelos mentioned, once
again, and I have been very pleased to be able
to say this constantly, but again I can say it
today, a fine group of nominees are before us.
The Governor is to be complimented.
They are to be complimented. And it is a
pleasure for me now to yield to Senator
Nozzolio.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nozzolio.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
Madam President.
Thank you, Madam President and
thank you, very much, the distinguished
Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee for
all his wonderful work these past few days in
bringing this budget together and now with
additional confirmations.
Before this house is now the
confirmation of Vernon C. Manley as Governor
Pataki's nominee to serve as a member of the
New York State Board of Parole.
Mr. Manley has a great and
extensive background in criminal justice
6817
matters and has served in public services for
over 25 years. He has been involved in all
aspects of those administrative and policy
making positions within various criminal
justice positions.
Currently he serves as Executive
Director of the New York City Department of
Probation, which eminently qualifies him
certainly to review candidates and decide
whether or not they are eligible to be paroled
in our criminal justice parole system.
Mr. Manley's education, training,
background and experience eminently qualify
him for this position. I compliment Senator
Stafford and Governor Pataki for moving this
nomination. It was unanimously supported by
the committee that I chair, Crime Victims,
Crime and Correction, and Madam President, I
urge the swift confirmation of Vernon C.
Manley to the New York State Board of Parole.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Vernon C. Manley for
confirmation as a member of the State Board of
Parole.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
6818
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nomination is
hereby confirmed.
And as President of the Senate I
would like to acknowledge the presence of
Vernon C. Manley, congratulate you and wish
you every best success in your new endeavor.
Thank you.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a Member of
the State Civil Service Commission, Leo J.
Kesselring, of Rochester.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: I yield to
Senator Leibell.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you,
Madam President, Senator Stafford.
I am very pleased to rise in
support of this very fine nomination that has
been sent to us by the Governor. It is for
reappointment as a member of State Civil
Service Commission.
6819
I had the chance earlier this
morning to speak with Leo Kesselring and we
had the chance to talk about some of the
issues that are important and will be
important to our State Civil Service
Commission. And we had a chance to renew some
old acquaintances and to talk about family
friendships. And a brief review of the
nominee's resume clearly indicates not only
through his education I might also note he
went to the same law school, Saint John's, as
I went to. His practice, his private practice
as an attorney and his efforts on behalf of
the community where he lives, he served as
chairman of the Monroe County Cultural Center
Commission.
I would also note for our
colleagues that he has served here in the past
as a legal advisor to two members of this
body.
This is a nomination I think of
which we should all feel very proud and feel
very comfortable. I would urge the prompt
confirmation of this appointment and I look
forward to everyone's support from this body.
6820
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Leo J. Kesselring as a
Member of the State Civil Service Commission.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: Leo J. Kesselring
is hereby confirmed as a Member of the Stated
Civil Service Commission.
And I would like to acknowledge as
President of the Senate, Leo Kesselring's
presence along with his wife Cynthia.
Congratulations and every best wish on behalf
of the Senate.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Capital District Transportation Authority,
C. Michael Ingersoll of Saratoga Springs.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move the
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of C. Michael Ingersoll,
6821
of Saratoga Springs, as member of the Capital
District Transportation Authority.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: C. Michael
Ingersoll is hereby confirmed as a member of
he Capital District Transportation Authority.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey,
Bradford J. Race, Junior, of New York City.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move the
nomination.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Bradford J. Race,
Junior, of New York City, as a member of the
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
Senator Goodman.
SENATOR GOODMAN: Madam
President, may I be heard on this nomination?
THE PRESIDENT: Of course,
6822
Senator.
SENATOR GOODMAN: Madam
President, Bradford Race I think is one of the
best known figures in our State government,
known for this integrity and his extraordinary
ability in the work that he has done as
secretary to the Governor.
It gives me a great deal of
pleasure at the moment to strongly urge the
unanimous vote for this is outstanding public
servant. Brad Race is dedicated and is
involved in virtually every major policy
decision that is placed before the Governor
and the State as a whole and it seems to me
that the Governor shows extraordinarily fine
judgment in giving Bradford Rice this extra
responsibility.
As we all know, the Port Authority
of New York and New Jersey has immense
responsibilities. It is involved with
economic development of the entire region and
its leadership calls for people with incisive
good judgment, vision and the ability to carry
out very complex planning and implementation
tasks.
6823
For all these reasons I am
delighted to be able to say that my
constituent Bradford Race is ideally suited to
these responsibilities and will make a strong
and exceptionally capable commissioner the
Ports Authority of New York and New Jersey.
I am delighted to place his name
before the body.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: The question once
again is on the confirmation of Bradford J.
Race, Junior, as a member of the Port
Authority of New York and New Jersey.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: Bradford J. Race,
Junior, is hereby confirmed as a member of the
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Buffalo and Fort Erie Public Bridge
Authority, Victor A. Martucci of Clarence.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
6824
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Victor A. Martucci as a
member of the Buffalo and Fort Erie Public
Bridge Authority, Peace Bridge.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The confirmation
of is hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a public
member of the State Banking Board, Edward B.
Kramer of New Rochelle.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Edward B. Kramer of New
Rochelle as public member of the State Banking
Board.
All in favor, signify by saying
aye.
6825
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nomination is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Empire State Plaza Art Commission, Lynette
M. Tucker of Delmar.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Lynette M. Tucker of
Delmar as a member of the Empire State Plaza
Art Commissioner.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Lake George Park Commission, Anthony P.
6826
Reale of Ticonderoga.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation.
THE PRESIDENT: The question on
the confirmation of Anthony P. Reale of
Ticonderoga as a member of the Lake George
Park Commission.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As director of
the New York State Urban Development
Corporation, Debra C. Wright of New York City.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Debra Wright as a
director of the New York State Urban
Development Corporation.
6827
All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As members of the
New York State Hospital Review and Planning
Council, Robert S. Ascheim, M.D., of New York
City and Martin S. Begun of New York City.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of -- Senator Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: I would like to
speak about the Honorable Martin Begun, who I
know is also up for a member of Mental Health
Services Council, so what I have to say serves
for both positions.
Marty Begun has been a
distinguished civic and communal leader in New
York City for over 20 years, severing with
6828
distinction as president of the New York
Jewish Community Relations Council, among
other things. Recently he has become a major
figure in the State Liberal Party. He had
served as as director and dean at the NYU
Tisch Medical Center and I am sure he will
serve with distinction in both these
positions, one he is currently being confirmed
to as member of the New York State Hospital
Review and Planning Committee Council and the
next committee that he will be appointed to in
the next five minutes, I hope, member of the
Mental Health Services Council, he has my
congratulations and every member of the
Senate.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: The question on
the confirmation of Robert S. Ascheim, M.D.,
and Martin S. Begun, as members of the New
York State Hospital Review and Planning
Counsel.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
6829
THE PRESIDENT: The nominees are
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Mental Health Services Council, Martin S.
Begun of New York City.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Martin S. Begun of New
York City a member of the Mental Health
Services Council.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Council on Human Blood and Transfusion
Services, Morton Spivack, M.D., of New York
City.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
6830
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Morton Spivack of New
York city as a member of the Council on Human
Blood and Transfusion Services.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As members of the
New York School for the Blind, James Robert
Mac Connel of Bergen and Charles R. Ruffino of
Batavia.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of James Robert MacConnell
and Charles R. Ruffino as members of the New
York School for the Blind.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
6831
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominees are
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Buffalo Psychiatric Center, Morris Raiken
of Buffalo.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Morris Raiken of
Buffalo as a member of the Buffalo Psychiatric
Center. All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Elmira Psychiatric Center, Robert C. Flynn
of Penn Yann.
6832
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: More
confirmation.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Robert C. Flynn as a
member of the Elmira Psychiatric Center.
All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Helen Hayes Hospital, David John
McConnell, M.D., of Warwick.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of David John McConnell,
M.D., of Warwick, as a Member of Helen Hayes
Hospital.
All those in favor, signify by
6833
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Pilgrim Psychiatric Center, Barbara Neira
Marx of Smithtown.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move
confirmation, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Barbara Neira Marx as a
member of Pilgrim Psychiatric Center.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford
from the Committee on Finance reports the
6834
following nomination; president of the New
York State Higher Education Services
Corporation, Peter J. Keitel of Delmar.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
President, the final nominee of this very fine
group today, it is a pleasure for me to yield
to the Senator from Suffolk, Senator LaValle.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you,
Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Your welcome.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you,
Senator Stafford.
First I would like to compliment
the Governor on this nomination. It is an
excellent one. Peter Keitel met with the
Higher Education Committee today and I believe
to the person each committee member has said
either at the committee or to me personally
that Peter Keitel is a professional and will
make an excellent president of the Higher Ed
Services Corporation.
Peter was the executive senior vice
president of the corporation for many years,
6835
has held numerous positions in student
financial aid and higher education and I think
will really be a wonderful president of the
Higher Education Services Corporation, one who
brings professional skills, who will hit the
pavement running, who needs no training or no
awareness because he has been there, has deep
respect of the people who work within the
corporation, and I must say has a great deal
of respect in the higher education community
and Higher Ed Services Corporation works with
the institutions of higher education in our
State so it is critically important that they
as stakeholders understand and have a good
feeling about who the president of that
corporation is and I am sure that they will
echo that over a period of time.
I move the nomination of Peter J.
Keitel, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Peter J. Keitel as
president of the New York State Higher
Education Services Corporation.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
6836
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: Peter J. Keitel
is hereby confirmation as president of the New
York State Higher Education Services
Corporation.
And as President of the Senate I
would like to acknowledge the presence of Mr.
Keitel and wish you luck. We also would like
to welcome and acknowledge the presence of his
wife Susan Keitel, Elizabeth Keitel his
daughter and Adrea Armolenko also his
daughter.
Congratulations and best wishes for
success.
Senator Marcellino.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam
President, at this time I would like to
announce a meeting of the Rules Committee at
3:10 p.m. in Room 332.
THE PRESIDENT: There will be a
meeting of the Rules Committee at 3:10 p.m.
In Room 332.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Could the
Senate stand at ease until that time.
6837
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands
at ease.
(Whereupon the Senate stood at ease
at 2:49 p.m.)
(Whereupon the Senate reconvened at
3:29 p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT SEWARD: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I would like to call an immediate
meeting of the Conference of the Minority in
Room 314. Immediate meeting of the Conference
of the Minority in Room 314.
Thank you.
SENATOR SEWARD: The Minority
will conference immediately in Room 314.
(Whereupon the Senate stood at ease
at 3:30 p.m.)
(Whereupon the Senate reconvened at
5:00 p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will come to order.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
6838
return to reports of standing committees, I
believe there is a report of the Rules
Committee at the desk. I ask that it be read
at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
return to the order of reports of standing
committees. There is a report of the Rules
Committee at the desk.
I ask the Secretary to read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
from the Committee on Rules reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 4646, by Senator
Seward, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
Law;
5955, by the Senate Committee on
Rules, an act to amend the Local Finance Law;
4064, by the Senate Committee on
Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;
1786, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
3859A, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Insurance Law;
3878, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Administrative Code of the City of
6839
New York;
4383A, by Senator Goodman; an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
Law;
5678, by Senator Seabrook, an act
authorizing the City of New York;
5756A, by Senator Johnson, an act
to authorize the Town of Babylon;
5877, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Banking Law and others;
5905, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;
5977, by Senator Sampson an act to
authorize the City of New York;
5980B, by Senator McGee, an act to
amend the Mental Hygiene Law and others;
6048B, by Senator Bruno, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6055, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Local Finance Law;
6105, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
6111, by Senator Larking, an act to
amend the General Municipal law; and
Assembly Print 8886, by the
6840
Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend
the New York State Medical Care Facilities
Finance Agency Act.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept
the report of the Rules Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
motion is to accept the report of the Rules
Committee.
All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Rules
report is accepted. The bills are before the
house.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you take up the calendar
non-controversial.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the Supermental Calendar
6841
Number 59A, a non-controversial reading.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 835, Senator Seward moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 7928, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 835.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
835, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 7928, an act to amend
the Real Property Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
July.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
6842
Calendar Number 1526, Senator Bruno moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 5254 and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1526?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
ordered
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1526, by Member of Assembly Pretlow, Assembly
Print Number 5254, an act to amend the Local
Finance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1648, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
6843
Print Number 4064, an act to amend the Tax
Law, Chapter 877 of the Laws of 1975, and
Chapter 880 of the Laws of 1975.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 18. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1.
Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1666, Senator Padavan moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 5300 and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1666.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered.
Secretary will read the title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1666, by Member of the Assembly Abate,
Assembly Print Number 5300, an act to amend
6844
the Retirement and Social Security Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1667, Senator Seward moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 578B and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1667.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read the title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1667 by Member of the Assembly Lafayette,
Assembly Print Number 578B, an act to amend
the Insurance Law.
6845
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1668, Senator Padavan moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 5299, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1668.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
substitution is ordered.
The Secretary will read the title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1668, by Member of the Assembly Abate,
Assembly Print Number 5299, an act to amend
the Administrative Code of the City of New
York.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1669, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4383A,
an act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law in relation to authorizing.
6846
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1670, by Senator Seabrook, Senate Print 5678,
an act authorizing the City of New York to
reconvey its interest.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
6847
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1671, Senator Johnson moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 8649A, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1671.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
ordered.
The Secretary will read the title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1671, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8649A an act to
authorize the Town of Babylon.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
6848
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1672 by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5877, an
act to amend the Banking Law and others.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay that bill
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside at the request of the sponsor.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1673, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
5905, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law
and Rules in relation to the scope.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1674, Senator Sampson moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 6563, and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1674.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered.
The Secretary will read the title.
6849
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1674, by Member of the Assembly Boyland,
Assembly Print Number 6563, an act to
authorize the City of New York to reconvey a
certain parcel.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Aye 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1675 by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5980B, an
act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and
others.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 57. This
act shall take effect immediately.
6850
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1677, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6055, an
act to amend the Local Finance Law in relation
to providing.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1679, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6105, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law in
6851
relation to certain police officials.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
is there a message at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
motion is to accept the message of necessity
on Calendar Number 1679.
All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
message is accepted settlement. Bill is
before the house.
Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
6852
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1680, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6111, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
message at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
motion is to accept the message of necessity
on Calendar Number 1680. All those in favor
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house. The
Secretary will read the last Section.
6853
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1681, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8886, an act to amend
the New York State Medical Care Facilities
Finance Agency Act.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
non-controversial reading of Calendar Number
59A.
What is your pleasure?
SENATOR SKELOS: Can we go to
controversial, please, Mr. President.
6854
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the controversial calendar
beginning with Calendar Number 1667 by Senator
Seward.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1667, substituted earlier today by Member of
the Assembly Lafayette, Assembly Print Number
578B, an acted to amend the Insurance Law.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seward, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Duane on Calendar Number 1667.
SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, Mr.
President.
Under current provisions of the
Insurance Law there is a requirement that
anti-arson applications to be completed by
commercial property insurance policy holders
in cities of 400,000 in population or more at
the inception of the policy and also every
year thereafter on the anniversary date of the
policy.
Now, this bill would authorize the
Superintendent of Insurance to suspend or
6855
waive the requirement for the annual
anti-arson applications to be completed if the
insurance company, the insurer, can
demonstrate that the substantially equivalent
information is available from other sources.
This basically is an effort to
streamline the process, avoid unnecessary
paperwork and undue burden on the insurer, the
policy holder and all those involved without
backing away in any way in terms of the
anti-arson provisions because the information
would be available anyway.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is the
explanation satisfactory, Senator?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
6856
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1668, substituted earlier today by Member of
the Assembly Abate, Assembly Print Number
5299, an act to amend the Administrative Code
of the City of New York.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Padavan, an explanation has been requested on
Calendar Number 1668 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR PADAVAN: This bill,
which has already passed the Assembly and
which has a home rule message from the City of
New York would place investigators who work in
the district attorney's office in exactly the
same configuration as detectives who work in
the NYPD relative to pension opportunities,
namely a pension at 25 years without reaching
any age requirement.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation
satisfactory.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6857
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negative and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 1.
Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1672, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5877, an
act to amend the Banking Law and others in
relation to -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
temporarily, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the
bill aside temporarily.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1673, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
5905, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law
and Rules in relation to the scope of
disclosure.
6858
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1680, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6111, an
act to amend the in General Municipal Law in
relation to increasing.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Larkin, if you have time from the phone, an
explanation has been requested by Senator
Stachowski on Calendar Number 1680.
SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you very
much, Mr. President.
Bill this is a modification of the
bill that we passed earlier this year which
you spoke about. This legislation will permit
the industrial development agencies to finance
6859
certain civic facilities. Dormitory
participation in this is one of the things we
worked on before. The dormitory authority fee
is rescinded so that an individual who wanted
to a not for profit can use either an IDA or a
dormitory authority without excess expense.
The big thing here is now that this
new law goes three years and 20 million
dollars in projects. As you know the old law
expired on July the first of 1999. We think
it is very important because, for two reasons,
non profit organizations play an essential
role in providing the services which
government can not do or will not provide.
Non profit organizations increasingly account
for a large portion of local hiring and
purchasing particularly in our urban areas.
As I mentioned the last time, on
April 28 we had a hearing here in the Capitol
to determine the effects of Chapter 444, the
laws of 1997. The conclusion was that the cap
of 15,000,000 was insufficient especially for
projects in major areas such as New York City,
Long Island and Western New York. And
additionally it was determined that extending
6860
this law at two year intervals creates a
substantial hardship for non profits in
accomplishing the required paperwork and
approvals prior to start of the exercise.
Here we are now back again with an
agreement with the other house on a three year
time frame at a 20 million dollar cap. This
has the support of the Economic Development
Council, HANYS, Commission on Independent
Colleges and Universities, NYSAC and the New
York State School Board Association.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the
sponsor yield to a question, Mr. President?
SENATOR LARKING: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you
yield, Senator Larkin, to a question from
Senator Dollinger?
SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I read
this bill, Senator Larkin, the bill not only
provides an extender but it waives the fees to
6861
hospitals and nursing homes when they make the
loans. We are not charging them the
equivalent of what lawyers would call points
on the mortgage.
SENATOR LARKIN: That's correct.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the
loss of revenue impact of that, do you know?
SENATOR LARKIN: What we have
determined is that there is major consequence.
And we have discussed this directly, Richard,
with the Dormitory Authority.
And the other thing about it is
that in the discussions with both sides on it
it was just felt that a minimum amount of fees
that is now gained would be off set by the
open competition between the both agencies.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you Mr. President, if the Senator
Larkin would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Larkin, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR LARKIN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, excuse me.
Senator Larkin, do you continue to
6862
yield?
SENATOR LARKING: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator continues to yield.
Go ahead, Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
Mr. President, through you, with respect to
the one portion of the Public Authorities Law
we are charging nine tenths of a point and
with respect to the refinancing or refunding
of other projects, new construction is a half
point if we are refinancing.
My question is, how much
anticipated lost revenue would there be. Is
there a number we would lose and does that
money go to -
SENATOR LARKIN: In discussion
with the Dormitory Authority they said
negligible.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. That explanation was
satisfactory.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
6863
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
bill shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 1.
Senator Stachowski reported in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, can we stand at ease waiting for
the return of Senator Volker, please?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will stand at ease for a few moments.
(Whereupon the Senate stood at ease
at 5:15 p.m.)
(Whereupon the Senate reconvened at
5:25 p.m.)
THE SECRETARY: Print Number
1672.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
secretary will read Calendar Number 1672.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1672, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5877, an
6864
act to amend the banking law and others.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, an explanation Calendar Number 1672
has been requested by Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
this is a rather substantial bill. The
Governor's Program Bill which was introduced
on June 9th, which has a number of provisions
in it. It is popularly known as the definite
sentencing bill among the criminal justice
people in the Capitol, but it also includes
provisions relating to drug laws and some of
the provisions relate to changes in the
so-called Rockefeller Drug Laws, although it
relates to changes in general in the drug
laws.
It also has a provision in it
relating to king pin drug offenders. It
raises penalties and sets up a new, excuse me,
classification for major drug offenders who
operate both in this state and outside this
state.
It sets up a provision which has
been in a number of bills that have been sent
to us by the Governor that allows for appeal
6865
by prosecutors of both lenient sentences and
bail. There is a provision in here relating
to increasing penalties and broadening the
stances on money laundering and, in fact,
apparently equates it to Federal statutes on
money laundering. I understand the idea is to
dovetail it with Federal money laundering
statutes.
But the prime piece of this bill
that, the two pieces of this bill that are
most, have been most talked about are the
initial piece of the bill which talks about
what's called truth in sentencing. This House
has on several occasions passed bills, one has
been known as Jenna's Law and the previous
bill had talked about the use of so-called
definite sentences. I won't get into the
nature of how this arrives at because there
are different levels of provisions here
relating to felons, but primarily it provides
for definite sentencing for all felony
offenders, not just violent felony offenders
as was included in so-called Jenna's Law which
we passed last year, and if you remember the
way the definite sentencing works, although it
6866
says it allegedly gets rid of parole, it
doesn't, because the way it works is that if
you are sentenced to a -- if you're sentenced
under the provisions for a felony offense, you
would serve six-sevenths, a minimum of
six-sevenths of the sentence before you would
be eligible for parole and it sets up
provisions for post-parole or post-conviction
and sentencing supervision and provides up to
three years of parole supervision.
The second part of this bill
relates to various provisions that amend the
drug laws of this state, but the one that has
been most talked about is the provision that
provides for an Appellate review of sentences
that have been entered under the A-1
provisions of the Rockefeller Drug Laws. My
recollection is, however, that there is one
thing I think that should be understood and I
think the media in reporting this was unclear,
this only applies to possessors, it does not
apply to sellers. So the appeals provisions
would apply only to A-1 possessors of drugs
and not to sellers as in some other bills with
no prior felony records.
6867
There have been other bills, and in
fact Assemblyman Lentol and I have had a bill
for some time that relates to a potential
reform of the so-called Rockefeller Drug Laws.
There have been many reportings about how the
drug laws work. Usually they are
semi-inaccurate because they talk about all
drug laws as Rockefeller Drug Laws, which is
not true, and they seem to indicate that the
Senate has not been willing to talk about
reform. We've been willing to talk about
reform for years. Senator Bruno has been
willing to talk about reform. The problem is,
of course, coming together with the Assembly
and the Governor. Basically, the provisions
in this bill do reform sentencing statutes in
the area of drugs, persistent violent felony
offenders and second offenders. It is a very
comprehensive bill.
It does one other thing of great
note and that is it puts in statute for the
first time the so-called D-tap provisions that
are being used by prosecutors, I believe
primarily in New York City. District Attorney
Joe Hines has had a program for many years for
6868
drug treatment of primarily drug offenders,
obviously, but also he's used the program, in
fact, for some other offenders, but the D-tap
program is, as I say, is primarily for drug
offenders and this for the first time would
put into statute a D-tap program. So it not
only relates to treatment, sentencing,
prosecutorial appeals, it's a rather
substantial bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, you requested the explanation, I
believe, that would give you the floor. Do
you wish to continue with questioning or do
you wish to waive your -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, I have just a couple quick
questions. It may not be quick -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All
right. Senator Volker, do you yield to the
question from Senator Dollinger? Senator
Volker? Senator Volker?
SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly.
Absolutely.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
yields.
6869
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Just
for clarification through you, Mr. President,
this is the Governor's Program Bill, correct?
SENATOR VOLKER: It certainly is
the Governor's Program Bill, yes.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a couple
quick things, Senator Volker, because I've
been leaping through this as you've been going
through it.
One is, my understanding is if
there is some change in the parole of
deportable felons. I know there's a section
that deals with it, but I'm not sure since I
don't understand current law well enough what
this deportable felon section does.
SENATOR VOLKER: I believe it -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger, if I might interrupt your
discussion.
SENATOR VOLKER: Sorry.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
stenographer can't hear you when you're
walking away from the mike. If you want to
face and look at Mr. Volker -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I only do
6870
that when I -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- I
would suggest you walk around on the other
side of your desk and then the microphone will
pick up.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I don't
mind looking at that side of you. I won't
follow up with why, but I just suggest it for
the convenience of the stenographer so it can
be recorded.
(Laughter)
SENATOR VOLKER: I wasn't sure if
he was talking to me or you.
The provision of the, that you're
talking about, I believe is a provision that
it is basically just a technical remake of
what is already in law and because this is a
pretty comprehensive revision of the
sentencing laws, I think it does not make any
substantive changes as I understand it in the
foreign parole situation, but what it does do,
I think, is just to make technical changes and
it is not a substantive change, at least
that's my counsel tells me, I think that's
6871
correct, if I remember right.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The second
question of Senator Volker will continue to
yield, Mr. President.
SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly, yes I
yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The provision
with respect to appeals for certain types of
sentences, I know you reference that, but what
does that do, does this expand the scope of a
prosecutor to appeal what he considers to be a
lenient sentence in a criminal case?
SENATOR VOLKER: It most
certainly does and as you know, Senator
Dollinger, that provision has been in a number
of bills that have come before this house over
the last couple years. It is basically the
same provision as has been in about four or
five other program bills that have come before
this house. It allows for an appeal by the
prosecutor of what he considers lenient
sentences as well as bail decisions by a judge
in felony cases. One thing about it, as I
understand this provision relates to all
felony cases, I believe, where I believe at
6872
one point we received a bill that talked about
violent felonies. I believe this appeal
applies to all felony cases, if I'm not
mistaken.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: For you, Mr.
President, just so I understand.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, I yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I
make sure I understand this, if you look at
page 22 of the bill, and I don't want to pick
apart, be too picky about this, but is that
the section that deals with the unduly lenient
sentences, appeal rights, the prosecutor's
ability to appeal?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, it is.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. And so
as I read it, that section says you can appeal
if it's based solely upon the ground it was
unduly lenient?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. That's
correct. That's right.
6873
SENATOR DOLLINGER: And it was
actually less than the offer made by the
district attorney at the time, do I read that
correctly? Or is that an appeal right to the
convicted party? I can't decipher that given
the language.
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. I think in
reading it, I think you're right and I must
say that the language is -- you are right. I
think maybe the language could be a little bit
clearer, but that is what it does say, I
believe, it talks about that the sentence that
was imposed was not less than that the people
had offered and if it is, then I think that
wouldn't be considered unduly lenient and then
you couldn't make the appeal. So I guess it
would be about the only limitation you would
have on that sort of appeal.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: And the final
thing is, Senator Volker, as I understand,
again to you, Mr. President, if Senator
Volker will continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, I yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield? Yes,
6874
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The
provisions that deal with the Rockefeller Drug
Laws. I appreciate the fact, and I know
Senator Bruno has made it clear that he's
interested in re-examining those laws and
re-evaluating, but just, if you could, could
you briefly describe how this changes those
provisions?
SENATOR VOLKER: Well, it's a
little difficult to briefly describe, but the
prime provision of this relates to
post-sentencing and there is a provision in
here, however, to look at how the sentencing
is set up. It still would provide for a 10
to 20-year prison term as I understand it for
A-1 felons, but if on appeal, a person could
appeal a sentence as an A-1 felon and keep in
mind this is only for possessors, this is not
for sellers and these are people with no prior
convictions.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: No prior
violence.
SENATOR VOLKER: Not prior
violent felonies. What would happen is,
6875
because they would be subject to 15 to life
provisions and they would have to file a
report and they could be, they could get their
sentence reduced to 10 to 20 years, as I
understand it, unless there was, obviously,
some showing of something that was incorrect
at the sentencing, whatever, which has always
been the possibility. But normally speaking,
they would be subject to have it reduced to 10
to 20, to as low as 10 years, is in effect
what it would be.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: A final
question, Mr. President, of Mr. Volker?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I
understand it and as I've been briefed on this
bill, this will actually increase the scope of
judicial discretion for certain nonviolent
felony drug offenses, that people who have no
priors, people who have no prior violent, or
6876
excuse me, no violent, prior violent felonies,
who are convicted of possession, not selling,
is purely convicted of possession, the
discretion given to the sentencing judge would
actually be broader under this bill that it is
currently?
SENATOR VOLKER: Actually, the
only discretion that would be given, it really
wouldn't, if there's any, it wouldn't just be
a violent felony offense, it would be
virtually any offense, otherwise it would not
increase the judge's discretion as we
understand it. In other words, if the person
had no prior offenses, then it would
potentially increase the discretion of the
judge. But if there is any prior offenses,
then it would remain basically the same. I
think that it's been reported that somehow
this would make, and it would make a
substantial change, the real substantial
change, when you come right down to it, lies
in the ability of a judge to review the cases
that have already been determined in an
Appellate review of those cases that have
already been decided.
6877
SENATOR DOLLINGER: So again to
you, Mr. President, Senator Volker will
continue to yield? This bill opens the door
to those who have been convicted under the
circumstances we describe, without prior
felony offenses, who are convicted of being
users, or possessors, of amount that would
have qualified for substantial penalties, when
I say status or whatever, under the
Rockefeller Laws, this would give discretion
to the judge in going back and reopening the
sentencing portion of their criminal
prosecution to apply a new standard that would
give them more discretion. Is that a fair
statement?
SENATOR VOLKER: It would. I
think that one thing that should be pointed
out is that it's been widely reported that
there are thousands of new people that enter
the prison system every year. Three hundred
and twenty people were convicted last year
under the various provisions of the
Rockefeller Drug Laws. It is not a huge
number as has been reported. And by the way,
the numbers are coming down dramatically over
6878
the last two years. The system appears to
have probably more violent felony offenders in
it than we've ever had before in its history.
But you're right, it would have the ability of
an Appellate Judge to review sentences that
have already occurred. Some cases, for
instance, you might have people that have been
sentenced a considerable period of time ago
who if, remember I think the one thing about
it is if they're over ten years and if they
got their sentence reduced to ten years, they
would, in effect, be subject to be released.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: One final
question, Mr. President, I know I may have
prefaced my last question with that, but do
you know how many people, Senator Volker, if
you'll continue to yield, do you know how many
people would actually be subject to that
reopening and resentencing under this bill?
You've said that as few as 320 new inmates
come into this system, but do you know how
many would actually be affected by this if you
reopen the door to getting them that new phase
of discretion applied to their sentences?
SENATOR VOLKER: No, Senator, I
6879
really don't. In fact, I think Katie Lapp,
the head of DCJS, I think is reviewing that.
It's not as many, near as many as we had first
thought, or many people had first thought, but
it is, I suppose, some significant number, but
not as many particularly because the amount of
people who are in jail as possessors under
Rockefeller Drug Laws is much, much smaller,
much smaller than those that go in as sellers.
So it is considerably smaller, but we're not
sure they're looking at that right now and I
suspect strongly that they will have a better
idea. Of course, remember, that a lot of
these people are obviously going in and out,
but I think they'll have a better idea in a
short period of time.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly
on the bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate
Senator Volker explaining the Governor's
Program Bill. I know that there are parts of
it from the language that I've looked at
briefly that I think could be improved. My
6880
hope is if this comes to a negotiation with
our colleagues in the Assembly we'll get to
that point, but I do want to add just one
critical comment. The point that Senator
Volker makes about reopening the door in the
sentencing phase and applying broader
discretion should not be lost in the context
of the continuing march the development of
extra prisons and jail cells in this state.
Three hundred and twenty people in a single
year could be affected by this bill who might
get a greater, a broader discretion in their
sentencing. Three hundred and twenty people
is the better part of a quarter or a third of
a prison and that's the kind of thing we ought
to be looking at, the enormous costs
associated with incarceration of those who
would qualify. This is mostly users,
possessors, that people who have severe drug
problems who are addicted would be affected by
this change. I don't know that this will be
done. It's a very complicated bill, as
Senator Volker says in the next, what I hope
is the next hour that we're going to be in
session, but I would certainly encourage
6881
Senator Volker, if this bill passes this
house, to continue to keep the door of
discretion open. It's critically important
for those people who have already, may have
paid too severe a price based on the
Rockefeller Drug Laws. But it seems to me a
lot has changed since Governor Rockefeller was
governor of this state and one thing that's
changed is we've come to an awareness that
those kinds of users don't deserve Draconian
penalties for mere possession. My hope is
that we will -- this is the first step in a
progression to make those changes, reopen the
door to discretion, give our trial judges the
ability to properly mold justice to the cases
of drug users who are addicted and who need
treatment more than they need criminal
penalties. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Onorato. Senator Onorato passes.
Senator Waldon.
SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President,
would the gentleman yield for a question or
two?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
6882
Volker, do you yield to questions from Senator
Waldon? The Senator yields.
SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr.
President. Senator Volker, you know since
I've been here in this House my position on
discretion for judges. Would you just edify
our House in regard to discretion for judges
in regard to determinant sentencing in this
proposal? Thank you.
SENATOR VOLKER: Well, what it
does is, I think the one thing that people are
not aware of, when we passed Jenna's Law, a
lot of people, I think, thought it
automatically meant that there would be longer
sentences. In reality, the way it works is
that a judge would know when he sentences a
person exactly how long in effect that person
is going to serve subject to the six-sevenths
rule. The reason that's important is that the
indeterminate sentences, for instance, the old
sentence, let's say it was 6 to 12 years, a
person after 6 years, the sentence could be
reviewed. In some cases it was 7 1/2,
whatever, it depends on the situation. So the
answer is if a judge, for instance, says I
6883
will sentence this person to five years, that
means that person has to serve six-sevenths of
that five years, and then would be subject to
the potential for parole, subject to all the
reviews, and then to post-sentencing
provisions. So that, the limited discretion
would be is that a judge would know when he or
she sentences that person exactly what that
person would serve subject to the parole
provisions. And I assume you're talking about
the sentencing provision, not the drug law
provisions, and that's what this basically
would so. So in one sense, it would limit a
judgment and in another sense he or she would
know exactly what they were sentencing a
person to when they made the sentence.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR VOLKER: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR WALDON: If I hear you
right, Senator, what you're saying is though
it may limit the judge in one way, it actually
expands the judge's ability to make a
6884
determination as to what the real sentence
will be which may, in effect, on the back end
of this process reduce, in terms of the number
of years, and potentially reduce the numbers
of people who may be in prison in the long
run. Is that an accurate analysis?
SENATOR VOLKER: That is very
accurate. In fact, a judge can look at a
person's background, for instance, and could
make a determination that one individual
should, for instance, get 15 years, I'm just
using it, and another individual should only
get 10 because of their prior record or
whatever, and there's a series of things that
they could look at. And under this bill, then
that judge would know when he made or she made
that sentence, the person would be subject to
the sixth-sevenths rule, so in some cases,
there is a real possibility that a judge would
sentence to a lesser amount than is now the
case and under this bill, as under the Jenna's
Law Bill, that judge would be free to do that
based on the circumstances.
SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker.
Mr. President, on the bill.
6885
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Waldon on the bill.
SENATOR WALDON: I think that
those of us who are on this side of the aisle
should be very sensitive to this proposal and
be cognitive to the fact that at least in my
opinion this is better than what we have on
the books now, and I would encourage your
support of it. Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
President. I intend to support this bill; I
think it's an improvement. As a number of my
colleagues have said, it's an improvement over
present law and what's always mystified me
when you deal with concepts like truth in
sentencing or determinant sentencing is the
way some years it's somehow viewed as, oh,
they want determinant sentences, that's a
conservative view, and oh, they're against it,
that's a liberal view. I just don't think it
fits those categories. A couple of years ago,
I was thinking of proposing some determinant
sentencing things myself and was told by
6886
someone, oh, democrats can't do that. I said
why not? It's not a liberal thing. I said,
I'm old enough to remember when the Federal
determinant sentencing law was pushed by Ted
Kennedy all over the country. He came to New
York and had hearings.
I think what we all are interested
in is, number one, protecting the public.
Number two, having a rational system that's
fair and proportionate, proportionate to the
crime and proportionate to what a judge can
ascertain about the defendant's circumstances,
likelihood of committing other crimes and no
two defendants, even though they're guilty of
the same crime, can have necessarily the same
culpability, there are difference
circumstances in any case.
In the drug possession case, we've
all read those court decisions at every level
of the courts in this state where judges have
said our hands are tied, I am compelled to
give a sentence that I think is grossly unfair
and is an injustice and these decisions have
called on the legislature to take action.
I am happy that the Governor
6887
earlier this year proposed changes in the
overall Rockefeller Drug Law. I'm encouraged
by the expressed viewpoint of Senator Bruno to
take up the issue and do something about it.
I really regret that we're not here with even
a broader bill that addresses a lot of those
concerns and I would urge all of my colleagues
in both houses to take a look at this, let's
do something comprehensive.
Some of the problems I've had with
various sentencing bills that we passed in
this legislature and even more that we've
passed as one House bills in this Senate, had
been the idea to look at the crime of the
week, or the crime of the year, and up the
penalties for that and kind of put the whole
thing out of kilter.
I was always reminded in law school
I had one course taught by a local judge in
the District of Columbia as an adjunct and he
shook his head because he said he had two
trials the week before and what they did then
and what were then, I guess, misdemeanor
crimes, is sometimes they use the same jury,
requalify the same jury, and he said, without
6888
realizing he ended up with fundamentally the
same jury in the second trial. The first
trial was for a simply assault. Somebody on a
bus pinched somebody else. Not polite, very
rude, probably sexist, an assault. He said
next up before the same jury was somebody
taking a shotgun, let off two blasts at
somebody else, mis, and that was under the
then-law prevailing there, was a simple
assault. It had the same sentence. He said
the jurors looked at him throughout the second
trial like, what, are we all crazy here? You
know, both things were wrong, but they weren't
the same crime. And I think I've always been
mindful of that lesson I learned many, many
years ago. We should always make sure things
are proportionate.
In the attempt over the years to
address the outrage of the month, and I don't
make light of them because they often address
very, very serious criminal concerns and gaps
in the system, we've tended to beef up here
and we tended to impose mandatory sentences
here and there, take away discretion from
judges who actually hear the cases, and I
6889
think over a couple decades of that have
perhaps come up with a system that does, not
only does justice in most cases, but some
times does an injustice to certain people,
costs us a lot of money by incarcerating
people for whom things like drug treatment
would be a lot more efficacious and cheaper on
the public purse, and so I'm delighted that
we're beginning to address it.
I have no problem with determinant
sentencing within a fair range with discretion
of the judge. Even as I have no problem with
the provision that says a prosecutor can
appeal and the illegal, which they can now, or
unduly lenient sentence. The reality is there
are going to be two or three such appeals a
year, at that. Prosecutors have a lot of
other things to work on in their appeals,
they're only going to focus on cases that are
clearly, clearly off the charts. Even as
today defendants can appeal sentences to the
Appellate Division, it's a rare sentence that
the Appellate Court ever reduces, usually only
when it was either illegal or just unduly
harsh and very few of those today, given the
6890
mandatory sentencing scheme. Most judges just
apply the mandatory sentence and there's no
way they'll -- So to let either side appeal
cases that are way off the fringe, either in
being ridiculously lenient such that it makes
one raise one's eyebrows about what that
particular sentencing judge was thinking of,
and even raises questions of what's going on
there, it doesn't bother me. Even if it
certainly is appropriate when a judge seems to
throw the book at somebody and it makes you
suspect what was going on in that judge's
mind. Those cases at either end ought to be
appealed. Somebody ought to take a look at
them. So I think, in sum, certainly the way
this treats, gives an opportunity even for
second offender nonviolent felonies, felons,
in the cases of drug possession kind of stuff,
gives them still another chance to avoid
unduly harsh prison and even lets them qualify
for alternative drug treatment. I think
that's appropriate. I think a number of my
colleagues on this side of the aisle when we
first did the diversion program, when we first
did it, you'll recall the Willard Program, our
6891
concern, and I remember Senator Waldon and
others articulating was that when we set up
the Willard Program limited it to first
offender nonviolent felons. We were concerned
that gee, it was such a short program that the
likelihood of it actually curing the addict
was, it was less likely they'd actually cure
these people and then we would be setting them
up for a second bust to which harsh mandatory
sentences. We're always talking about
nonviolent drug possessors, users basically.
They would be kind of set up for it. You know
you cop a plea to that first one, get the
Willard Program. If the Willard Program
doesn't work, you're back there in six months
and now you've got nowhere to turn, you don't
qualify for that, and you actually set
yourself up for a mandatory hefty sentence.
So that's a good change. So there are good
changes in here. Overall it produces a scheme
that's more rational, fairer and proportionate
and leaves an appropriate amount of discretion
in the hands of the judge who actually gets to
see the defendant, gets to evaluate the facts
in the case. I just would urge this
6892
legislature to go forward and remediate some
of the injustices that the Rockefeller Drug
Laws have produced in the past. I recognize
there is some ability to do that here, but we
ought to just bite the bullet and do the whole
thing. So, Mr. President, I congratulate
Senator Volker and the Governor for proposing
this and I'm happy to support it. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Volker, close.
SENATOR VOLKER: I assume I'll
close. Let me just say that, Senator Connor,
that some people might say it's a little scary
that you and I agree on a number of things,
but it's not true. I mean, you know, a
definite sentencing is a fascinating issue.
Years ago I think Doug Barclay was the
Chairman of Codes and we did some commission
or it was joint codes group, we went across
the state on the issue of definite sentencing,
the Assembly and the Senate. It was
fascinating because we were attacked from the
right. We had a proposal on definite
sentencing. We were attacked from the right
and the left. The liberals thought that it
6893
was a conservative plot and the conservatives
thought it was a liberal plot because the
liberals said what'll happen is all those New
York City judges and all those people will let
everybody out and the other people said the
reverse. And we kind of shook our heads when
it was over and we said, well, we weren't
exactly plotting on anything. And it was an
interesting story because it showed how there
was so much division on both sides on the
issue because you looked at it from the
provision you wanted to look at it from. If
you were on this side, you said well that will
screw things up because it was change. The
problem with change is it's always very
difficult. You mentioned Willard. It's
interesting because this House was pretty
united in what you say. We wanted a longer
term at Willard. I don't think it's a big
secret. It was the Assembly that didn't want
it. And I don't, you know, want to get into
that. It seems as if they thought it was
going to fail anyway or something and we
thought that it should be at least a year or a
minimum of nine months or whatever, and I
6894
think both sides in this house felt that way
and I think it's unfortunate because I think
it would have made for a much better program
and it's one of the reasons, I think, why the
DAs have been so reluctant to certify people
into the programs. Of course, one reason is
that there's a suspicion that they're very
nervous about some of the people that they
allow the pleas for, that maybe they weren't
quite as nonviolent as the pleas showed, but
that's another matter.
Let me just finish on the
Rockefeller Drug Laws because there's been a
lot of talk about this and I think there's
been more heat than light in the media. I was
closer to the Rockefeller Drug Law issue than
virtually anybody else for various reasons and
I'm here in the Senate primarily because of
the Rockefeller Drug Laws because Nelson
Rockefeller and I clashed so viciously on it
that, let's just say he helped me to get into
the Senate by getting me out of the Assembly.
He was very bitter over the changes in the
Rockefeller Drug Laws. One thing I think that
people should understand, the initial
6895
Rockefeller Drug Laws were much tougher. In
fact, Dom DeCarlo, the late Dom DeCarlo, who
just left this year, and I fought very
vehemently internally and I was a police
officer just off the street within a year on
this very issue because we said that, you
know, it's pretty ridiculous. But the one
thing that I think everyone should understand
when you talk about mandatory sentencing, the
real reason we went to mandatory sentencing of
drug offenders is there was clear and
pervasive evidence that New York City judges
as a whole were sentencing drug offenders to
one-third of what judges outside of New York
City were sentencing to and there were many
judges in New York City who couldn't bring
themselves to send people to jail, and the
rest of the state was very concerned about the
impact of that. My personal opinion is,
although I might have been certainly even
willing at the time to give some discretion, I
really think the Rockefeller Drug Laws as such
and drug laws in general, along with
persistent violent felony offender and second
felony offender were a roaring success. I
6896
know there's people who would disagree and I'm
not saying that some discretion, and I'm
certainly not saying that some discretion
couldn't be allowed now, but we have made
enormous strides in the drug laws. You could
not have the decline in violent felony
offenses you have today, in my opinion,
without the decline in the drug culture. It's
not that it isn't there, it is. That's my
personal opinion, has been for a long time.
But let's not think that the laws as they are
now have not been amended. It's been amended
many, many times and even the initial proposal
by Nelson Rockefeller was rather dramatically
changed from his first proposal and results of
that, by the way, he was very, very bitter. I
can tell you because I personally discussed it
with him, face-to-face, very much so. In
fact, we, as I said, we had a number of
discussion and Nelson could be very forceful.
But in any case, we certainly, and Senator
Bruno has been saying it for some time, that
we've been willing to discuss this. The
biggest problem is that we have people who
really want to destroy the whole drug law
6897
system and a lot of us have a concern with
that. We're willing to discuss changes and
allow the possibility of some more leniency in
the area of looking at cases in terms of
whether there may have been too severe
sentences, but many, I think many of us still
believe that you better be very careful
because we are talking about the curse of
drugs which is something that nearly destroyed
the inner cities of most of this country, and
certainly New York City and is only now, I
think, beginning to show itself under some
real control.
So, Senator Connor, I think in many
ways you and I agree maybe more than we
realize in some of these areas, but it is
still a very difficult issue, obviously, and I
would hope that in the future we can deal with
some sort of resolution of this whole area.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary
read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 109, this
act shall take effect January 1, 2000.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
6898
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery to explain her vote.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President. I am certainly encouraged by the
fact that both the Governor and our majority
leader in this House, and, of course, Senator
Volker, have really put on the table an
opening to this extremely difficult issue.
And with a sense of resolve that we should
begin to move in a more progressive way as it
relates to sentencing, giving some leeway to
the discretion of the judges and what have
you. I have a article in front of me that is
one year old this month, August, where it
talks about, as I've said before, the fact
that there are over, almost 250,000 people on
probation or parole and another approximately
120 people who are incarcerated. It's almost
400,000 people in our own state who are under
the supervision of the Criminal Justice System
directly and as we know, the majority of those
people are people of color, specifically
African-Americans. It poses a very major
crisis in terms of what do we do to address
6899
the fact that so many people of color end up
being incarcerated in one way or another. So
we absolutely have to look at it and I'm happy
that Senator Volker has proposed. I'm going
to vote against this bill only because I'm
concerned that we need to really go much
further, obviously, I think even Senator
Volker would acknowledge that as he has said
in his debate. And we certainly don't want
to, I note in the bill where we have a
violation also has a determinant sentence. An
unclassified misdemeanor also has a
determinant sentence and so forth and so on.
So, I'm anxious to have us continue in this,
along these lines. I'm happy to see it, but
Mr. President, I'm afraid that if I, I need to
make sure that what's in the bill or the bill
does not contain some areas that are obviously
not in keeping with the direction that I feel
we should be going, so I vote no on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.
Senator Seabrook to explain his vote.
SENATOR SEABROOK: Mr. President,
I think that the sponsor should certainly be
6900
commended for moving this legislation because
it is certainly important that we begin to
talk about how we are going to deal with the
old outdated and archaic Rockefeller Drug
Laws. If this bill was to do that and be a
part of that, then I could certainly be
supporting of that because I think that
there's a need in terms of repealing something
that's tremendously outdated in this state and
in this nation. But the sponsor must be
commended for at least making the steps in the
right direction in terms of putting this
forward. But I would not want to be a part of
a hopeless belief that this is going to solve
all of those problems that have been created
by that outdated Rockefeller Drug Law and that
atmosphere which was created, because I don't
think that that was the way to solve the
problem, although I thought that there was a
need in terms of doing some of that, but
there's some other needs we really want to
talk about dealing with this. So I would
hope that this would force the other House in
terms of putting some things together and this
House in terms of really stretching beyond and
6901
allowing their imagination to go beyond as to
how these things are to be resolved. So I
would hope that it would motivate others,
would motivate me in terms of supporting this
when it is truly a real reform, but I must
commend the sponsor for what he has done, but
I think that I would have to hold my vote
until we really put this on the table, move in
a more positive direction from the other side
and accelerate from this side, I think that we
can really come to solving some of those
problems that this Rockefeller Drug Law has
caused this nation and this state. So I'm
going to be voting in the negative with a
sense of hope an aspirations that we can move
on to allow this bill to become the real
thing.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Seabrook will be recorded in the negative.
Senator Schneiderman to explain his
vote.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I concur in the statements Senator
Seabrook and Senator Montgomery just made, and
6902
I do appreciate at least in our House for
making an effort to try and deal with this
issue of sentencing which is an
extraordinarily tough issue. I think that the
violent felony offender sentencing statutes
have worked. I think some other statutes have
worked. I can't say that about the
Rockefeller Drug Laws and I do think it is
time to address it. I don't think this bill
really gets the job done, but I am, as much as
I don't feel that this bill really is the
right first step, I'm much more disappointed
by the fact that the Assembly is not even
addressing the issue this year when we've got
an opening, and I think that's a shame and I
certainly will -- I've made my views known to
my colleagues over there, so I'm voting in the
negative, but I think it's unfortunate that
our House is willing to move forward on
something I think that's very critical to the
State and yet the Assembly is not at this
point in the session.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative.
Senator Marcellino will explain his
6903
vote.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
President, I would just rise to again
congratulate my colleague, Dale Volker and the
Governor for their efforts in this behalf.
Also I agree with Senator
Schneiderman's comments that it's unfortunate
that our colleagues in the Assembly have not
seen fit to at least take this measure up and
debate it. This would be a good negotiating
point and this would be a good first step in
the process to get things moving and to get
things talking about. I think it's positive.
Let's not lose sight of the fact,
though, with the Rockefeller Drug Laws, as
harsh as they are, they also gave law
enforcement officials, DAs and others,
leverage with a lot of people to force them to
go into counseling and treatment that they
otherwise would never have done. In some way,
one can legitimately state that literally
thousands of lives, if not more, were saved by
these laws because people took counseling and
treatment rather than a penalty and were
willing to go that route. I'm sure these laws
6904
had an effect in saving many lives. However,
I agree with the bill and I agree with the
sponsor. It's time to rethink them and time
to look at them again and make some
adjustments and the appropriate changes. This
bill is a good first step. The Assembly
should get on board and do the right thing and
start talking about this issue. I'm voting
aye.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Marcellino will be recorded in the
affirmative.
Senator Lachman to explain his
vote.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes, to explain
my vote, sir, Mr. Chairman, recently I read an
op-ed piece by Senator John Dunn, who was the,
I believe the author of the original
Rockefeller Drug Laws in this Chamber and
Senator Dunn in that op-ed piece came out
against the Rockefeller Drug Laws for a very
simply reason. He said it was an idea that
failed. And he believed at the time a
generation ago that it would succeed. But it
hasn't succeeded. It was an idea that had
6905
gone awry and had not succeeded. And I hope
that this Chamber, in voting for this
legislation, and I will vote for this
legislation, and I commend Senator Volker and
the majority and minority leadership and the
Governor for sponsoring it because I think by
voting yes on this, we open up the panoply of
issues involved in this area which is long
overdue and I hope that our voice will be
heard in the Assembly as well. So I vote in
the affirmative on this legislation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Lachman will be recorded in the negative.
Senator Mendez. Oh. Senator Lachman will be
recorded in the affirmative.
Senator Mendez to explain her vote.
SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr.
President. Thank you.
I do also rise to support this
bill. Especially I have to congratulate the
Governor and Senator Volker and Senator Joe
Bruno and my minority leader for supporting
this bill.
You know, if we vote against this
bill, what are we basically doing? We voted
6906
against it before. It doesn't do all the
kinds of things we want done to correct the
awful reality of the Rockefeller Drug Laws.
But this is a beginning and through this
legislation, some of those people who received
undue harsh sentences will be able to get a
break, as we say, so it's not a perfect
legislation in terms if we looked upon it as
the vehicle through which gets on with the
Rockefeller Drug Laws. But it's a true
beginning and I think that we have to start
somewhere. See I don't believe that we should
throw out the bath, the water on the babies
and this is an instance of that. So I am
really glad, Mr. President, to support this
bill. It is a good bill and will do a lot of
good things.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Mendez will be recorded in the affirmative.
Could we have all of the negatives,
please, raise their hands once more so that
the secretary can record the negative votes.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1672 are
6907
Senators Duane, Montgomery, Schneiderman and
Seabrook. Ayes 52. Nays 4.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed. Senator Fuschillo. That completes
the reading of the controversial calendar 59A.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, can we return to motions and
resolutions. I understand there's some
housekeeping at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
We'll return to the order of motions and
resolutions. The chair recognizes the
delightful Senator McGee.
SENATOR MCGEE: Thank you,
delightful Mr. President. Mr. President, I
wish to recall my bill, Senate Print Number
5980B which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1675 by Senator McGee. Senate Print 5980B, an
act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and
others.
SENATOR MCGEE: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
6908
bill was passed and ask that the bill be
restored to the order of third reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
to reconsider the vote by which the bill
passed at House.
Secretary call the roll and
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
McGee.
SENATOR MCGEE: Mr. President, I
now move to discharge from the Committee on
Rules Assembly Print Number 8948A and
substitute it for my identical bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
will be discharged and substituted.
SENATOR MCGEE: The Senate bill
on the first passage was voted unanimously. I
now move that the substitute Assembly bill
have its third reading at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1675 by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
6909
Assembly Print Number 8948A, an act to amend
the Mental Hygiene Law and others.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo, are you moving to accept the
message of necessity on this bill that's at
the desk?
Motion is to accept the message of
necessity on Calendar Number 1675.
All those in favor signify by
saying aye, opposed nay.
Message accepted. Bill is before
the house. The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed. Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, can we stand at ease temporarily,
please?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
6910
Senate will stand at ease.
(Senate stands at ease.)
(Senate resuming session)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: May we please
return to reports of standing committees? I
believe that there is a report of the Rules
Committee at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
return to the order of reports of standing
committees. There is a report of the Rules
Committee at the desk. I'll ask the secretary
to read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno
from the Committee on Rules reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 681A by Senator
Larkin, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
Law.
6104 by Senator Leibell, an act
implementing agreements.
2286 by Senator Goodman, an act to
amend the New York City Charter.
4832B by Senator Volker, an act to
6911
amend the Public Health Law.
6050 by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law.
6070A by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
6092 by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Tax Law.
6113 by Senator Hannon, an act to
amend the Executive Law.
3880 by Senator Volker, an act in
relation to allowing.
4971 by Senator Saland, an act to
reopen the Special Retirement Plan.
5255A by Senator Oppenheimer, an
act to amend Chapter 711 of the Laws of 1907.
5778A by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law; and
6115 by Senator Wright, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law and
the Public Health Law.
All bills ordered direct for third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Move to
accept.
THE SECRETARY: The President
6912
moves to accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
to accept the report of the Rules Committee.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Rules
report is accepted. Bills are ordered
directly to third reading.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, there will be an immediate meeting
of the Finance Committee in the Majority
Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate
meeting of the Finance Committee. Immediate
meeting of the Finance Committee in the
Majority Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate
meeting of the Finance Committee in the
Majority Conference Room, Room 332.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, at this time can we take up the
6913
non-controversial reading of the rules report?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the non-controversial
reading of Calendar Number 59B.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
760 by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 681A, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1678 by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6104, an
act implementing agreements between the State
and an employee organization.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo. Yes, there is.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Move to
accept.
6914
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
motion is to accept the message of necessity
on Calendar Number 1678.
All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Message
accepted. Bill is before the House.
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 19, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1683, Senator Goodman moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 7027 and substituted for
the identical Third Reading Calendar 1683.
6915
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered. The Secretary read the title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1683 by Member of the Assembly Farrell,
Assembly Print Number 7027, an act to amend
the New York City Charter.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk. The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1684, Senator Volker moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 7692A and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1684.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered. The Secretary will read the
title.
6916
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1684 by Member of the Assembly Tokasz,
Assembly Print Number 7692A, an act to amend
the Public Health Law, in relation to
implementation.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1685 by Senator Morahan, Senate Print Number
6050, an act to amend the General Municipal
Law, in relation to recreating.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk. The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6917
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1687 by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6092, an
act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
exempting.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1688 by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6113, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
the functions, powers and duties.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
6918
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Is there a
message at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Motion to
accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is
to accept the message of necessity on Calendar
Number 1688. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed
nay.
(Response of "Nay.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
message is accepted. The bill is before the
House. The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. Nays 1.
6919
Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1689, Senator Volker moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules,
Assembly Bill Number 6987 and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1689.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered. The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1689 by Member of the Assembly Seminerio,
Assembly Print Number 6987, an act in relation
to allowing.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negative and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. Nays 1.
6920
Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1690, Senator Saland moves to
discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly
Bill Number 6962 and substitute it for the
identical Third Reading Calendar 1690.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Substitution
is ordered. The Secretary will read the
title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1690 by Member of the Assembly Manning,
Assembly Print Number 6962, an act to reopen
the Special Retirement Plan.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk. The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record
the negative and announce the results.
6921
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. Nays 1.
Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1691, Senator Oppenheimer
moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules
Assembly Bill Number 8256A and substitute it
for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1691.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
substitution is ordered. The Secretary will
read the title.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1691 by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8256A, an act to amend
Chapter 711 of the Laws of 1907.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is
a home rule message at the desk. The
Secretary will read the section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
6922
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1692 by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5778A, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law in
relation to payment.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2, this
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
Senator Fuschillo, that completes
the reading of the non-controversial calendar
and the controversial calendar for those bills
which we have messages that were high.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, can we return to motions and
resolutions and adopt the resolution calendar
Supplemental Calendar Number 1, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will
6923
return to the order of motions and
resolutions. The motion is to adopt the
Supplemental Resolution Calendar which is on
the members' desk. All those in favor signify
by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
resolution calendar Supplemental Calendar is
adopted.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, can we stand at ease pending the
return of the finance report?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will stand at ease.
(Whereupon, the Senate stands at
ease.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvenes
session.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
6924
President, can we please call up Calendar
Number 1693.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1693 by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6115, an
act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Law and the Public Health Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Is there a
message at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Motion to
accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
motion is to accept the message of necessity
on Calendar Number 1693. All those in favor
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed
nay.
(No response.)
Message accepted. The bill is
before the House.
6925
The Secretary will read the last
section.
Explanation of Calendar Number 1693
has been requested. Senator Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill is to deal with the issue
of sale of alcohol and tobacco products to
minors and provides for voluntary mechanism
whereby merchants can avail themselves of new
technology involving scanning and magnetic
strips to verify and validate the age of the
individuals who are purchasing either tobacco
or alcohol products.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
President. I find this a very intriguing
bill. If Senator Wright would just yield to a
couple of questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Wright, do you yield to questions from Senator
Dollinger?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Certainly, Mr.
President.
6926
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I note that
the bill on page 4 creates a provision that
deals with the affirmative defense of using
this transactional scan in the context of a
proceeding before the State Liquor Authority.
SENATOR WRIGHT: That is correct.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But the final
sentence in subdivision 7A says that
notwithstanding any such affirmative defense
shall not be applicable in any civil or
criminal proceeding. Does that mean that they
couldn't assert that as an affirmative defense
if the civil action were brought against them
for violation of the Dram Shop Act?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Senator, I'm not
a practicing attorney, but that's my
understanding, yes.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: All right.
The only other question I have is the -- there
are restrictions in this bill, Senator, again
through you, Mr. President, that I understand
restrict the use of the information gathered
by the scan, by the strip scan, isn't that
6927
correct?
SENATOR WRIGHT: That is correct.
One of the concerns that the Senate has had
from the beginning when the Leader first
established the task force on privacy has been
issues of privacy when we're collecting data
and there are specific prohibitions relative
to the information on how it's utilized.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
The explanation is satisfactory. Mr.
President, just on the bill briefly.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Dollinger on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would
suggest, Senator Wright, I think this is, at
least as I read it quickly today, I think this
is a good bill. I would just encourage you
that if the affirmative defense of the use of
this scanning tool is going to be available in
prosecutions under the State Liquor Authority
Act, if it's determined that there's success
with that approach, I would expand the
affirmative defense to include the affirmative
defense in a Dram Shop Act proceeding as well
so that if bars and restaurants where alcohol
6928
is sold where frankly, at least from my point
of view, the exposure and the risk is greater
than if it's sold simply in a grocery store,
but I would suggest that if you can, if this
proves to be successful, expanding it to
include a civil defense in a Dram Shop Act
would be warranted as well. This is going -
technology is going to give us more
information, I think greater assurances to the
sellers of alcohol that the people who are
buying it are 21 years old instead of 20 or in
the case of tobacco products, 18 instead of
17, so with that understanding, I'm going to
vote in favor of this bill and maybe if it's
successful, we'll look to an expansion of it.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Okay. I think
we share a like objective, Senator, and
perhaps once we have this enacted, we can then
work jointly with the Assembly to take those
provisions out they wanted inserted.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Secretary will read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4, this
act shall take effect September 1, 1999.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the
6929
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill
is passed.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, may we return to the reports of
standing committees. I believe there's a
report of the Finance Committee at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll
return to the order of reports of standing
committees. There is a report of the Finance
Committee at the desk. The Secretary will
read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford
from the Committee on Finance reports the
following nomination.
As a member of the Board of
Trustees of the City University of New York,
Benno C. Schmidt, Jr., of New York City.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
it's a pleasure for me to yield again to the
Senator, the Chairman of the Higher Education
6930
Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, Mr.
President, Senator Stafford.
You know, once again, I believe
Governor Pataki has made an excellent choice
in the nominee of Benno Schmidt. I had the
opportunity to spend about an hour and a half
with the nominee because he was going out of
town with his family. I arranged for an
opportunity for Senator Lachman, who had a
discussion with the nominee and both of us
reported to the Higher Education Committee
where he was -- his nomination was unanimously
supported, making the recommendation to the
Finance Committee.
As many of you know, he had a very
distinguished academic career at Yale, but I
learned, and had not realized that he began
with Columbia Law School and later became the
dean at Columbia Law School, but was also,
clerked for Justice Warren, Earl Warren. And
we discussed many issues during our visit of
an hour and a half and talked about tuition
6931
and his response was a very strong one,
believing in the strength of the Tuition
Assistance Program. He talked about the
importance of students being prepared for
academic work and making sure that they had a
sound footing where they could compete,
students can compete equally. He believed
that the importance of standards and having
programs of excellent in each of the campuses
and had a high hope and expectation that each
campus could have multiple programs that would
compete at a national level. And he talked
about one of the goals and objectives that he
would have in ensuring that City University
had proper information and reports so that the
policymakers, the board, could make good
decisions.
I talked to him about the role of a
board member and his role as vice chairman and
he believed that the most important work had
been accomplished in the selection of
Chancellor Goldstein, Matt Goldstein, who
served as president at Beirut, knows and
understands the needs at City University and
that as board members they should be involved
6932
in establishing policy.
He has also indicated and made the
same commitment to Senator Lachman that he
would be back before our Higher Education
Committee to discuss whatever the Committee
viewed as being important, either about his
report or any other issue at City University.
I, as I had indicated to the Higher
Education Committee, I was not only impressed
with his comments about higher education,
elementary and secondary education, but I
learned in just a one-on-one visit that he was
a person who has values, who is committed to
family life and is just a very decent human
being. And so I believe Benno Schmidt will
make an excellent addition to the City
University Board of Trustees and will make an
excellent Vice Chair. And so, Mr. President,
I move the nomination of Benno Schmidt.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
any other Senator wishing to speak on the
nomination? Senator Lachman on the
nomination.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. It is
true that Dr. Schmidt did reach out to me.
6933
As Senator LaValle stated, to meet with him on
Friday morning. He was going to come to my
office. But it is also true that Friday
morning I arose at 4:30 a.m. to come to
Albany -
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Lachman, excuse me just a minute.
I'm always enthralled with any
conversation that you have on the floor, but I
can't hear you.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Okay.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I can see
you, I can see your lips moving, but there is
a definite chatter on the left side of this
Chamber.
SENATOR LACHMAN: I will also
speak louder.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hold on
just a minute until it quiets down in here.
Senator Morahan, could you take the
conversation out of the Chamber if you wish to
decide to have it?
Senator Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: It is true, as
Senator LaValle said, that Dr. Schmidt did
6934
reach out to me Thursday afternoon, and he was
scheduled to come to my Brooklyn District
Office to meet with me. Unfortunately, I did
not have the pleasure as Senator LaValle had
to meet with him because I arose at 4:30 a.m.
that morning to attend that very important and
successful democratic conference meeting here
in Albany.
However, I was surprised that Dr.
Schmidt did call me shortly after our
conference meeting was over and we had a half
hour conversation on the telephone and it was
a revealing conversation in many ways. As
members of the Chamber realize, as Senator
LaValle is aware, and Senator Trunzo, who is
chairman of the Transportation Committee is
aware, I rarely, but occasionally, rarely but
occasionally permit nominees to go through
without having the committee meet with these
nominees. There have been several occasions
in the Transportation Committee, I believe
this is the first time in the Higher Education
Committee. I think it is absolutely essential
that nominees meet with a broad cross-section
of the members of this Chamber, Democrats and
6935
Republicans.
In my telephone conversation with
Dr. Schmidt last Friday, he pledged to come
before the Higher Education Committee and the
Finance Committee as soon as he returns from
Europe.
Now as Dr. -- as Senator Dr.
LaValle has said, Benno Schmidt does have a
very impressive record. He was the president
of Yale University, which if I'm not mistaken,
has produced the second highest number of
Ph.Ds after the City University of New York.
And he also had a distinguished career as dean
of the Columbia Law School. Most of us know
him as the author of the Schmidt report,
dealing with the future of CUNY. This is a
very complex report. It is not a simplistic
report. It is not a report that either
faction in the debates over remediation and
funding are totally satisfied with. It has a
vision in terms of the future involving
access, involving excellence and when one of
the appendices, there is a very strong push
for greater funding for public higher
education in the State of New York.
6936
Now in my conversation with Benno
Schmidt, he gave me the impression that in the
area of remediation, he is open to the
flexibility that has been exhibited by the
Chancellor-elect, Dr. Matthew Goldstein, while
he was president of Beirut College, he will
shortly become the chancellor of the City
University of New York.
Now, we have here a very
distinguished gentleman who will serve as the
vice chair if he is permitted to by this
Chamber tonight. Strangely, by coincidence,
over the weekend I had a call from Washington,
D.C., from the previous vice chair who had
been appointed by Governor Carey and
reappointed by Governor Cuomo, the Honorable
Edith Everett. And she told me that even
though I might have some doubts, in her
opinion, and if you don't recall, Edith
Everett was the strongest fighter and battler
for remediation in the City University, in her
opinion, it's absolutely essential that
someone with the character, the ability and
the vision of Dr. Benno Schmidt be appointed
a member and the vice chair of the CUNY Board
6937
of Trustees. As Mrs. Everett said to me, I
might not agree with everything he says or
does, but I respect him and I know he will be
independent in his judgment on the major
issues.
In my opinion, this is probably one
of the best appointments that the Governor has
made to the CUNY Board of Trustees. I regret
that I have not been able to meet him. I am
looking forward to meeting him in the future.
Several of my friends in key positions in the
university union speak very highly of him
after having met with him several times over
the last three or four weeks. I will support
his nomination as vice chair of the CUNY Board
of Trustees.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
question is on the nomination of Benno C.
Schmidt, Jr. of New York City to become a
member of the Board of Trustees of the City
University of New York. But before we take
the vote, Senator Duane, did you wish to speak
on the nomination?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, thank you
very much, Mr. President.
6938
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Though I'm very
clear that I'm swimming against the tide of
what's happening in our state and what's
happening in our nation, I just want to make
sure that I have it on the record that I think
ultimately if we talk about how it is that
City University should be managed that we need
to go back to the way it was originally
envisioned and that is a school where everyone
had access, including the very poorest of the
poor people, including people who needed
remediation. I know it's unfashionable, but I
think that what needs to be on the agenda is a
goal of free tuition and open enrollment at
City Universities.
First of all, I think that's the
point of it being a public institution is that
all of the members of the public should be
allowed to attend no matter what their
financial circumstances and I request or give
an invitation to any of the members of the
Senate to come and stand with me on the corner
of Chamber Street and Hudson Street any night
6939
at five o'clock and see who it is who is going
to Manhattan Community College. Or to stand
by the subway station near any City University
or community college at all and I think you'll
see the same thing that I see. You will see
people going to school after they have worked
all day. Many of them are women, many of them
are children. I don't know who takes care of
their children while they're going to school
at night, but I'm sure that they're doing the
best they can to have child care so that they
can provide even better in the future for
their families. You see people stop off at
McDonald's to pick up dinner to eat at their
desks while they're in school. We're not
talking about rich people, we're not even
talking about middle income people. We're
talking about people who work hours and hours
in factories and then drag themselves to
school in order to be able to better
themselves and their families and you know
what? I think we should let them go to school
for free.
There isn't a university
practically, the vast majority of universities
6940
across this nation provide remediation and why
it is that this has even become a topic of
discussion for CUNY is beyond me. It seems
like it's just mean-spirited and indeed, I
think, racist. Remediation is a tried and
true form of education for people who want to
advance themselves in our society and we
should support it across the board and we
should pay for it because even if you don't
care about it in terms of a person's ability
to want to advance themselves in terms of
investing in our society and making a better
world for our kids, that would be the way to
go, to make it possible for people to actually
do better by our society by having the best
possible education and for as long as they
want to go to school.
Now, I haven't had the luxury of
calls from people on behalf of Benno Schmidt.
He didn't call me, he's not here to be able to
say what his beliefs are on these issues,
which I think are very important. I mean, I
find myself conflicted. It could be, you
know, a yes vote until we hear more from him
or a no vote until he comes and talks with us.
6941
But I also have to put this in the
context of what's been happening of the
terrible attacks on our City University
system. And that's what they are are attacks
and most of them are unfair and most of them
have been bound to be completely unfounded and
I think unfortunately Mr. Schmidt is finding
himself, from my point of view, as being a
person where I believe I need to take a stand
on what it is that my philosophy is about the
City University system, how it is that we need
to invest in the City University system, how
it is that we need to invest in the people who
use the City University system and I am going
to encourage my colleagues to vote no based on
what I hope are beliefs as to how the City
University of New York needs to go as we go
into the next century. I think the stakes are
that high. Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Stafford on the nomination.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
very briefly I would only mention that Dr.
Schmidt served as dean at Columbia Law School
and I was on the board at the time and I can
6942
only say, you know, and emphasize the caliber
of gentleman he is. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator
Montgomery on the nomination.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President. I join my colleague, Senator
Duane, in expressing concern that number one,
we have not really had an opportunity to have
a dialogue with Mr. Schmidt so that we can
better understand how he feels about some of
the issues that we feel are extremely
important.
Number two, City University is the
Harvard and Yale and Stanford and whatever
other elite institutions we name, it's that
for poor people in New York City and it has
been that from the inception of that
institution no matter what color were the
people, the students in the institution from
the beginning. It has always been the avenue,
as Senator Duane has so aptly described,
essentially freedom from poverty and a pathway
to a more productive life and citizenship and
citizenry in our city, state and nation.
So it is extremely important for us
6943
to have an opportunity to talk to Mr. Schmidt.
He should at least know what's important to
those of us who serve constituents in that
city and whose constituents are part of that
university. So it's unfortunate that he is
not here. I am impressed that he served as a
clerk with Chief Justice Warren, who is one of
my heroes, obviously. I'm impressed that he
has served as dean of Columbia Law School and
that he has been president of Yale. Obviously
his credentials are unquestionable. But there
are some very important political issues as it
relates to City University and I would like to
express my opinion on those to him
face-to-face.
I hope that he will agree to come
before us at some point and so that we can
have that kind of discussion, but I think that
I would like to express my concern that one,
the City University is one of the most
important issues that we have before us in the
legislature and in our city and two, we need
to have a dialogue with him. So I'm going to
vote no on this nomination only because I
would like to be able to talk to him about
6944
some of those issues. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there
any Senator wishing to speak on the
nomination? Hearing none, the question is on
the nomination. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those
opposed nay.
(Response of "Nay.")
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
nominee is confirmed. Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: There will be
an immediate meeting of the Majority in the
Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate
meeting of the Majority. Immediate meeting of
the Majority Conference in the Majority
Conference Room, Room 332.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: The Senate
stand at ease.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The
Senate will stand at ease.
(Whereupon, the Senate stands at
6945
ease.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvenes
session.)
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Members
of the Majority Conference are encouraged to
come to the Majority Conference Room as soon
as possible. Members of the Majority
Conference are encouraged to come to the
Majority Conference Room as soon as possible.
SENATOR MEIER: If there be no
further business, I move we adjourn until
August 5th at 10 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On motion,
Senator Skelos, the Senate is adjourned until
tomorrow, August 5th, at 10 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 10:13 p.m. the
Senate adjourned.)