Regular Session - October 7, 1999

                                                              7189



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                              October 7, 1999

                                 5:06 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION









                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary















                                                          7190



                            P R O C E E D I N G

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The invocation

                 today will be given by the Reverend Peter

                 Young from the Church of the Blessed Sacrament

                 in Bolton Landing, New York.

                            REVEREND YOUNG:    Let us pray.

                            Dear God, on this beautiful fall

                 October day, we gather to use our talents with

                 Your blessings.  For the citizens of our great

                 state, we pray that You will grant us wisdom

                 and help to carry on the duties of leadership.

                            We ask You this in Your name, O

                 God, and pray that You will guide us, and our

                 Senators, for the benefit of all of the people

                 of State of New York.

                            Amen.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.





                                                          7191



                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Wednesday, October 6th, the Senate met

                 pursuant to adjournment.  The Journal of

                 Monday, October 4th, was read and approved.

                 On motion, Senate adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 I wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number

                 4719B, recalled from the Assembly, which is

                 now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Volker, Senate Print 4719A, an act to amend





                                                          7192



                 the General Business Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this bill was

                 passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to recommit the bill to the Committee

                 on Rules, as amended.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 will be recommitted.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 we're at ease for a few moments, waiting for

                 the Minority to finish their conference.  And

                 I am informed that they are finishing and are

                 a few minutes away from the chamber.

                            And when we have Minority





                                                          7193



                 representation, we're going to ask for an

                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 Room 332.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Do you

                 want to set a time on that, Senator Bruno?

                 5:15 or -

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    In five minutes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senate will stand at ease.

                            There will be a Senate Rules

                 Committee meeting in the Majority Conference

                 Room.  Senate Rules Committee meeting in the

                 Majority Conference Room, Room 332, at 5:15.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 5:10 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 5:26 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senate will come to order.

                            I ask the members to find their

                 places, staff to find their places.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 can we at this time go back to the motions and

                 resolutions calendar and ask that the





                                                          7194



                 Resolution Calendar be presented and passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    We will

                 return to the regular order of motions and

                 resolutions.

                            The Resolution Calendar is before

                 you.  All those in favor of adopting the

                 Resolution Calendar signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Resolution Calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 there is a resolution that we just passed that

                 I have sponsored, 2333, asking the Governor to

                 proclaim the year 2003 the Year of the Korean

                 War Veterans.  Anyone that would like to be on

                 that resolution, please acknowledge at the

                 desk.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Are there

                 members who would like to be on the

                 resolution?





                                                          7195



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Anyone that

                 wouldn't like to?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Maybe

                 it's easier, Senator Bruno, Senator Connor, if

                 we put all the members on the resolution with

                 the exception of those members who don't wish

                 to be the resolution.

                            If you don't wish to be on

                 Resolution 2333, please indicate to the desk,

                 and they will remove your name.

                            Senator Bruno, that brings us to

                 the calendar.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 can we at this time return to reports of

                 standing committees.  I believe there's a

                 report from the Rules Committee that I would

                 ask be accepted at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is.

                            The Secretary will read the report

                 of the Rules Committee.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the

                 following bills directly for third reading:

                            Senate Bill 6143, by Senator Wright

                 and others, an act to amend the Public Service





                                                          7196



                 Law and the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            6144, by Senator Nozzolio and

                 others, an act to amend the Penal Law and the

                 Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            6145, by Senator Volker and others,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law and the

                 Criminal Procedure Law;

                            And 6146, by Senator Rath and

                 others, an act to enact the Clinic Access and

                 Anti-Stalking Act of 1999.

                            All bills directly for third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 motion is to accept the report of the Rules

                 Committee.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The Rules

                 report is accepted.  The bills are ordered

                 directly to third reading.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,





                                                          7197



                 can we at this time take up the

                 noncontroversial reading of the Rules report.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1682, Senator Wright moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill 9039 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate bill, 6143.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1682, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9039, an act to amend the

                 Public Service Law and the Environmental

                 Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This

                 act shall take effect December 1, 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record





                                                          7198



                 the negatives and announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1682 are

                 Senators Duane, Hevesi, LaValle, Onorato,

                 Padavan, Schneiderman, Seabrook, and Senator

                 Leibell.  Also Senator Saland.

                            Ayes, 48.  Nays, 9.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1682, also Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            Ayes, 47.  Nays, 10.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1715, Senator Nozzolio moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9038A and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Print, 6144.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The





                                                          7199



                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1715, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9038A, an act to amend the

                 Penal Law and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to falsely reporting an incident.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect on December 1, 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1716, Senator Volker moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9037A and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Print, 6145.





                                                          7200



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1716, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9037A, an act to amend the

                 Executive Law and the Criminal Procedure Law,

                 in relation to the DNA Identification Index.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 will be laid aside.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 the noncontroversial reading of the Rules

                 report.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1717, Senator Rath moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9036A and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Print, 6146.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read the title.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1717, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9036A, an act to enact the





                                                          7201



                 Clinic Access and Anti-Stalking Act of 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Goodman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Is this bill

                 being called, sir?  I just arrived in the

                 chamber.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is being called on the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I beg your

                 pardon.  Thank you very much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 19.  This

                 act shall take effect on December 1, 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Goodman, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 I would like to explain my vote briefly and

                 say that I believe that this bill -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator





                                                          7202



                 Goodman, excuse me just a minute.

                            There's a lot of noise in the

                 chamber.  If we could have the members please

                 take their conversations, if they find that

                 they're necessary, out of the room, and the

                 staff take their places.  Give me just a

                 minute to get to quiet.

                            Senator Farley, do you wish to take

                 your chair or the conversation out of the

                 room?

                            Thank you.

                            Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 it's my belief that this Clinic Access Bill

                 constitutes perhaps the most important women's

                 rights measure that has passed in this house

                 in the last 30 years.

                            Some 30-some-odd years ago, you may

                 recall we did pass a bill which permitted

                 women the right to exercise their choice in

                 matters relating to abortion.  And since that

                 time, unfortunately, despite the fact that

                 this even preceded the Roe versus Wade federal

                 decision, we found ourselves in a situation in

                 which, unfortunately, women were blocked at





                                                          7203



                 clinic entrances, were harassed and, in many

                 instances, injured and in some cases even

                 killed in an effort to proceed to try to

                 obtain the services to which they were legally

                 entitled.

                            Mr. President, this matter came to

                 a boil very recently when a Dr. Slepian, in

                 the city of Albany [sic], was in his own

                 kitchen and was shot in the back by an

                 individual who resented the fact that he was

                 providing women's sanitary services, including

                 abortion.  And that I think indicated the

                 severe problem which the society faced at a

                 point where the law was being flouted and

                 totally disregarded.

                            Why was this disregard so permitted

                 under these circumstances?  The answer is

                 plain.  That although a federal law was passed

                 making this type of activity illegal, there

                 was simply insufficient availability of

                 enforcement to make sure that the federal law

                 had teeth.

                            The action which we're taking

                 today, which carries with it as well a

                 provision which prevents stalking -- that is





                                                          7204



                 to say, the following of individuals with an

                 intent to do them harm or to harass them -

                 for the first time in these many years will

                 provide the very teeth necessary to assure

                 that the protections guaranteed by the law can

                 be carried out.

                            A law which passed is one thing,

                 but a law which can create a definite limit to

                 impermissible conduct is quite another.  And

                 under the circumstances, I cannot emphasize

                 strongly enough the significance of this major

                 piece of legislation.

                            I wish to thank my colleagues at

                 this point for giving it final passage, and to

                 say that I think the Governor's very

                 progressive stand on this matter has also been

                 a significant contributory to the success of

                 the measure.  I most affirmatively wish to

                 support him and obviously explain my

                 affirmative vote, with a -- double underlining

                 the fact that it's one of the great votes that

                 we've been able to cast since I've arrived in

                 this Legislature some 32 years ago.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator





                                                          7205



                 Goodman, you will be -

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    May I ask for a

                 very brief opportunity to state that -- I

                 don't know this if this is the right moment,

                 but I wish to record my opposition to a bill

                 that -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Goodman, we'll do that in just a moment.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Goodman will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Senator Schneiderman, to explain

                 his vote.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I join Senator Goodman in -- and I

                 share in his pride in our passing this bill.

                 I am rising now, and I don't want to delay

                 things, particularly to thank and commend

                 those who remained behind when we adjourned in

                 August.  And -- because when we adjourned

                 without doing this bill, I was quite

                 concerned.  And I know that Senator Bruno and

                 staff stayed on, got this done.





                                                          7206



                            It is a tremendous step forward.

                 It is a very important bill.  It's a very

                 important bill to many people who I know

                 personally and have worked with.  And

                 protecting the doctors and the patients and

                 the clinic workers of our state is just a very

                 important measure that we have finally been

                 able to act on.

                            And it makes -- you know, this is

                 the kind of work that we need to do, we need

                 to do more of.  And I was very, very proud

                 when I heard at the end of the day after we

                 had adjourned that in fact people had gotten

                 the job done and we've done this.  This is a

                 tremendous step forward.

                            I hope that we'll be able to move

                 forward next year further in the area of human

                 rights, reproductive rights.  There are a lot

                 of things still on the agenda.  But this is a

                 tremendous step, and I'm very -- it's the kind

                 of bill that makes me proud to be in the

                 Senate.

                            And again, high praise to those,

                 having been up all night the night before we

                 adjourned, who stayed on and got the job done





                                                          7207



                 and negotiated it out with the Assembly and

                 the Governor.

                            I vote in the affirmative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Schneiderman will be recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            Senator Hoffmann, to explain her

                 vote.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I want to thank my colleagues for

                 their support for this important measure.  We

                 passed it earlier this session in a somewhat

                 different form, and now that it has come back,

                 paired with the anti-stalking bill for a

                 second time, and we know that the Governor is

                 prepared to sign this matter into law almost

                 immediately, we are really at an historic

                 moment.

                            But it's a bittersweet moment,

                 because it underscores how very fragile our

                 democracy is.  We shouldn't have to pass a law

                 to guarantee access to a health service that

                 is already fully legal in this state.  But

                 because of the threats on people's lives and





                                                          7208



                 because of the taking of a life and because of

                 the constant intimidation that women have

                 felt, it has become necessary for us to take

                 this measure seriously and to put something

                 into law that will be unchallengeable, and

                 that every woman, for whatever reason, who

                 seeks access to such a health care facility

                 can be guaranteed that access without any form

                 of discrimination or intimidation.

                            And there are people who are on

                 another side of the choice issue who have to

                 have some pause right now too.  And I share

                 their concern.  Because the fact that we still

                 have abortion services in a civilized society

                 is another reason for us to continue

                 redoubling our efforts to help educate young

                 women, to help educate young men about the

                 dangers of unwanted pregnancy, to help people

                 of all ages understand their need to be

                 responsible to each other when they engage in

                 sexual activity.  We have far too many

                 unwanted pregnancies in this state, and we

                 sometimes forget that that's an issue that

                 requires our attention as well.

                            So while we address the issue of





                                                          7209



                 clinic access, while we address the issue of

                 safety, primarily for women, from the fear of

                 stalking, I hope that we can redouble our

                 efforts to address the need for a freer and a

                 fairer society for all women -- particularly

                 for young girls, who are so often victimized

                 by people who prey upon their naivete in the

                 areas of reproductive activity.

                            And I want to compliment and thank

                 Senator Bruno for his steadfast support of

                 this measure, and make sure that everybody

                 realizes that we will be vigilant in the State

                 of New York in seeing that it is fairly and

                 justly enforced.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hoffmann will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her

                 vote.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I would

                 like to make one point, if I may.  And that is

                 that the approach in the last couple of years,

                 certainly -- maybe even longer than that -- of

                 the prochoice community has been to focus on

                 education and prevention.  Because I think

                 there is nobody probably in this state who is





                                                          7210



                 proabortion; what we are is prochoice.

                            And we would like young people to

                 understand that there are any number of means

                 of preventing pregnancy.  And that is what we

                 seek, prevention of the pregnancy.  Nobody

                 really likes the idea of an abortion.  It's

                 just there should be a choice if an accident

                 has occurred and this is not a child that is

                 wanted -- a fetus that is wanted.

                            What I want to say is it's sort of

                 funny, this is so anticlimactic, after all the

                 years that we have been working for this, to

                 sort of have it just slip in on this quiet

                 night.  But I am, of course, very thrilled.

                            And what I want to say is my

                 appreciation to the people who have made this

                 happen -- in particular, Senator Bruno.

                            And all you folks who in the past

                 have had trouble with this issue, it is such

                 an important thing to us in the prochoice

                 community.  I know in my -- in my county, we

                 have to put up bulletproof doors and windows

                 in our reproductive health centers, at

                 enormous cost.  I mean, isn't that appalling,

                 that in this country we have to put up





                                                          7211



                 bulletproof doors and windows?

                            So this goes really a long way to

                 correcting that injustice, overcoming the

                 intimidation that so many people have felt,

                 and permitting them to seek their reproductive

                 health in a free and a caring atmosphere and

                 not a violent one.

                            So my thanks to all you folks.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Mr.

                 President, we have here an anti-stalking bill

                 and a clinic access bill.  I support the

                 stalking bill.  I'm opposed to that component

                 dealing with clinic access.  And I vote no on

                 this legislation.  I just want to explain

                 briefly why.

                            Senator Hoffmann indicated we

                 shouldn't have to pass a law that allows

                 clinic access.  Well, not only shouldn't we

                 have to, but we don't have to.  If someone is

                 harassing somebody, they could be charged with





                                                          7212



                 harassment.  If someone is assaulting someone,

                 they could be charged with assault.  If

                 someone is killing someone, they could be

                 charged with murder.

                            I think basically what this bill

                 really does is there's a certain division

                 among people on a certain issue, and this is

                 to make one side of that issue feel good.

                            But there's already bills that deal

                 with every act of violence that this bill is

                 allegedly for.  And it seems to me that

                 there's a real fine line between harassment

                 and free speech.  And I think most of the

                 people voting for the bill would have been

                 appalled if during the Vietnam War we had

                 passed a special bill protecting people -- or

                 against people who were protesting a specific

                 issue against the war.

                            And the most amazing thing about

                 the bill is not only do we not need it -- we

                 shouldn't have to pass it, we don't need it -

                 but when Roy Goodman eloquently steps up and

                 talks about that atrocious act where a doctor

                 was killed in his own home, it points up the

                 very fact that that has nothing to do with





                                                          7213



                 clinic access.  He was home, he got shot,

                 somebody murdered him.  He should be charged

                 and convicted of murder and punished

                 accordingly.

                            So no matter how you slice it, the

                 bill is not needed.  And it's really a

                 political statement that I think is very

                 dangerous in defining certain favored groups

                 in the Legislature to have special protection,

                 when it's really a free speech bill and it's a

                 decision that the legislator's taking on,

                 whether you're for or against an abortion or

                 for -- or prochoice or antichoice, depending

                 on how you frame the issue.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1717 are

                 Senators DeFrancisco, Farley, Maltese, and

                 Padavan.  Also Senator Meier.

                            Ayes, 53.  Nays, 5.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Bruno, that completes the





                                                          7214



                 noncontroversial reading of the Rules report.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 can we at this time go to the controversial

                 calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1716, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print 9037A, an act to amend the

                 Executive Law and the Criminal Procedure Law,

                 in relation to the DNA Identification Index.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Volker, an explanation of Calendar Number -

                 actually, it's Senate Print 6145.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

                 this is, in my humble opinion, one of the most

                 important criminal justice bills that we will

                 pass and now will go on to the Governor in

                 this decade, in the 1990s.

                            And the reason is, very quickly, I

                 was the sponsor of the original bill that set

                 up DNA -- the DNA data bank, back I think

                 somewhere in the late '80s or early '90s.  In





                                                          7215



                 '94, we passed legislation that essentially

                 set up the DNA data bank for most of the

                 violent felonies.

                            Now, this bill, which was passed by

                 the Assembly after this house left -- and

                 frankly, thanks to Senator Bruno -- and I

                 don't want to cast any aspersions, but the way

                 this system works, unfortunately now, if we

                 hadn't left the scene, I don't believe the

                 Assembly would have done the bill at that

                 time.  I think it would have been later on in

                 the year before this ever would have happened.

                 But unfortunately, the Assembly waited until

                 we left.

                            And by the way, Senator

                 Schneiderman said he was still here.  I was

                 still here too.  I was here in the middle of

                 the night when all the ruckus was going on,

                 and of course Senator Bruno and -- I'm looking

                 at the staff people who were here deep into

                 the night.  And this is the result of it.

                            These are important bills.  This

                 bill would expand rather dramatically the

                 availability of DNA.  Particularly, it would

                 expand it to drug offenders, both past and





                                                          7216



                 present -- in other words, people that are on

                 probation and parole -- and to burglars.

                 Because this especially includes burglary

                 third, which is very important, because many

                 of those people have been found in other

                 states, with the DNA testing, to be involved

                 in other crimes, including a significant

                 number of sex crimes.

                            Now, I've talked to the Governor

                 personally about this bill, by the way.  I

                 just met last night with the DCGS to discuss

                 the cost.  It is going to be a considerable

                 cost over the next few years.  But I think the

                 result of this bill will be that a lot of

                 criminals, some of whom may be out on the

                 streets today, you know, for sex crimes and

                 many other crimes, when the -- when this is

                 fully implemented, they're going to end up in

                 jail.  They're going to get caught, and

                 they're going to go to jail.

                            Two -- just two things.  The bill

                 also increases the penalties for any kind of

                 illegal use of DNA testing to a felony, for

                 any kind of improper use makes it a felony.

                 You go to jail for, what is it, 2½ to 7½, if





                                                          7217



                 I'm not mistaken.  And I think it's a very

                 important bill.

                            And one final thing.  It changes

                 the fact that you can only use blood to

                 extract DNA, which is the present statute.  So

                 you can use other areas -- for instance, hair

                 and things of that nature -- for DNA testing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Would the sponsor

                 yield to a couple of questions?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Am I correct to

                 note that this bill would set up a statewide

                 DNA reporting system?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Well, it's

                 actually already set up, Senator.  It was set

                 up, as I say, years ago, in -- oh, I don't

                 know, '88, '90, somewhere in there.  And then

                 it was expanded in '94.

                            What this is is an expansion of

                 that system that was already set up some years

                 ago.





                                                          7218



                            SENATOR DUANE:    And one

                 additional question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Are you

                 asking the Senator to yield again, Senator

                 Duane?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    I will yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Volker, do you yield again?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And just to

                 clarify -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane -- Senator, excuse me just for a minute.

                            There are a lot of conversations in

                 the chamber going on.  It's very difficult to

                 hear the questioning.  If you need to have a

                 conversation, members, please take them out.

                            If the sergeant-at-arms can just

                 kind of curtail the movement through the

                 chamber, that would be appreciated.

                            Thank you for the interruption,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            If the sponsor would please

                 reclarify the enhanced penalties for tampering

                 with DNA.





                                                          7219



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Yeah, it would

                 make it a Class E felony.  Which, as I said,

                 would move that from a -- I believe a

                 misdemeanor now, a Class A misdemeanor, to an

                 E felony.  Which I believe is what, 2½ to 7½,

                 I believe, or something of that nature.

                            Four.  I'm sorry, 4 years.  Maximum

                 of 4 years.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Thank you.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    You're welcome.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            Excuse me.  Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I believe that

                 there's an amendment at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 an amendment at the desk, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I would ask that

                 the reading be waived and I be given an

                 opportunity to explain the amendment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Your

                 request is granted.  The reading will be

                 waived, and you're now afforded an opportunity





                                                          7220



                 to explain the amendment.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you very

                 much.

                            The amendment that's at the desk is

                 the exact same legislation which passed the

                 Assembly this session, which is known as

                 either the bias bill or the hate crimes bill.

                 And because the amendment that is before us is

                 exactly the same as what the Assembly has

                 passed, we have a real opportunity now to pass

                 the bias bill.

                            As many of you know, in the last

                 session we increased penalties for crimes

                 committed against the elderly.  This chamber

                 has a long history of passing legislation

                 which enhances penalties for crimes committed

                 against law enforcement officers.  Recently,

                 in committee in the Senate, legislation was

                 passed which enhanced penalties for sports

                 authorities -- referees, umpires and coaches.

                            And what this legislation before us

                 would do, contained in this amendment, would

                 be to enhance penalties for bias-related

                 crimes.

                            It seems that the argument, which





                                                          7221



                 had been used time and time again, that there

                 shouldn't be special categories set up, is not

                 really the case, because we've been willing to

                 consider doing that for referees and umpires

                 and coaches, and we've in fact done it for

                 older people and for police.

                            Since we last met, probably the

                 most well-known case of terrible bias and hate

                 occurred in California, where in Los Angeles a

                 gunman, a white supremacist, went out to a

                 daycare center that was run by a synagogue and

                 committed just the most heinous hate crimes

                 against Jewish children.

                            Are we waiting for that to happen

                 in New York State?  Do we need to have this

                 kind of terrible, terrible tragedy happen in

                 New York State for us to pass bias-related

                 legislation?

                            You know, in New York State -- many

                 of you saw the photos of the police officers

                 escorting the children from the daycare

                 center.  But in New York State, state troopers

                 don't even report bias incidents.  There is no

                 reporting, no statewide reporting system for

                 bias-related incidents.  Why?  Are we afraid





                                                          7222



                 to know the extent of bias in New York State?

                 Why don't we want to know cases of

                 anti-Semitism and racism, antigay attacks in

                 our state?  Why don't we want to have that

                 information so that we can deal with the issue

                 of hate crimes and hate in our state?

                            Today President Clinton signed an

                 executive order which makes hate crimes a

                 crime in the United States military.  And yet

                 our state troopers here in New York State

                 don't even consider hate crimes to be a

                 terrible crime.  Why not?  The U.S. military,

                 with its hideous don't-ask-don't-tell policy,

                 now has hate crimes as one of the classes of

                 crime which is covered within the military,

                 and yet our law enforcement here in New York

                 State does not do that.  That is wrong.  It's

                 wrong that we don't have a hate crimes bill.

                            Now, you know, I know that people

                 are annoyed that I'm standing up and bringing

                 this up again.  But you know what?  I'm going

                 to do it time after time after time again.

                 You know what you can consider it?  Consider

                 it your sacrifice to the time I had to spend

                 in an emergency room because I got beaten up





                                                          7223



                 and I needed hospital attention.  I don't

                 think that's too much to ask for.

                            And if you had a few more minutes,

                 you could go out at 8 o'clock and see the

                 vigil in honor of Matthew Shepard, who was

                 murdered a year ago today.  And you can hear

                 the testimonials from people here in Albany

                 who were victimized by hate crimes.

                            I spoke at the Gay Pride rally on

                 Saturday, and I asked the question which I

                 always ask:  "How many of you have been

                 verbally or physically assaulted for being gay

                 or being perceived to be gay?"  And once

                 again, the vast majority of people raised

                 their hands.  Because every day in New York

                 State, people are vilified and beaten up

                 because they are gay or they are perceived to

                 be gay.

                            And New Yorkers will not be safe

                 from anti-Semitic or racist or homophobic

                 attacks until we pass a bias bill.  I urge you

                 to vote for the amendment today.  It's the way

                 to protect all New Yorkers from hate crimes.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator





                                                          7224



                 Hevesi, on the amendment.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            And I, for one, am not upset that

                 Senator Duane has chosen to reiterate time and

                 time and time again our collective failure

                 here to address a most important and pressing

                 public policy issue.

                            And let me state from the outset

                 that I support Senator Volker's bill on the

                 DNA index, which I think is going to save

                 lives.  And a few moments ago I supported the

                 clinic access legislation, which I think will

                 save lives, in conjunction with the stalking

                 component of that legislation, which will save

                 lives.  And in both of those cases, in

                 addition to saving lives, we may prevent

                 serious injury from being inflicted upon the

                 residents of this state.

                            I would like to note, though, that

                 there was a memo in opposition filed to the

                 clinic access legislation by the New York

                 State Conservative Party.  Yet somehow that

                 bill, that legislation, came before us,

                 overcame that opposition, and we just passed





                                                          7225



                 it.  And for some reason we're not able to

                 pass hate crimes legislation.

                            Now, let me digress for a second.

                 I, as many of my colleagues here, give many

                 speeches in my district, usually one a day, if

                 not more than that.  And for those of you who

                 are not familiar with my district, it's a very

                 conservative district.  Very conservative.  So

                 I go out and I speak in my district, and

                 they're very supportive of the legislation we

                 passed today -- DNA index, stalking.  And

                 they're also supportive of hate crimes

                 legislation.

                            And they're sophisticated.  And

                 they don't understand -- well, let me do it

                 this way.  They do understand that the reason

                 that hate crimes legislation doesn't pass is

                 because there's a provision there that

                 provides a protection on the basis of sexual

                 orientation, in addition to all the other

                 protections that are provided on the basis of

                 race and ethnicity and gender and age and

                 disability.

                            They don't understand why it is

                 that that protection should preclude passage





                                                          7226



                 of this legislation.  Because they have not

                 made the logical leap -- because you can't

                 make the logical leap, and I've spoken about

                 this a number of times on this floor -- that

                 to provide this protection in some way

                 endorses a lifestyle, as if that was a problem

                 in and of itself.  There's no logical

                 connection there.  Just can't understand it.

                            But I will tell you, Mr. President,

                 that my constituents are very angry.  My black

                 constituents are very angry that they're not

                 afforded protections if they're attacked

                 because they're black, because somebody thinks

                 that providing some protection to a homosexual

                 is going to encourage homosexuality -- as if

                 that was possible.

                            And my Jewish constituents are very

                 upset that we don't have hate crimes, because

                 now they can be attacked because they're

                 Jewish and not have additional protections and

                 not have additional penalties for individuals

                 who would commit so stupid an act, and not

                 have the deterrent factor that I believe hate

                 crimes legislation would send to all the

                 ignorant bigots out there who are losers in





                                                          7227



                 their own life and need to point the finger of

                 blame at somebody else to reflect on their

                 shortcomings, to explain their shortcomings.

                            And the women in the audience that

                 I speak to, they're upset too because they

                 don't get the protection.  And those with

                 disabilities don't get the protection.  And

                 Catholics don't get the protection.  And

                 Indians don't get the protection.  And no one

                 else gets the protection.  Puerto Ricans,

                 Latinos, they don't get the protections

                 either.

                            Why?  Why?  Because we can't make

                 that leap.

                            And I'll tell you something.

                 Senator Goodman got me excited earlier this

                 year as he rose to speak -- and I applaud his

                 advocacy on hate crimes legislation.  He rose

                 to speak indicating that there were ongoing

                 negotiations with the Cardinal and that there

                 may be a ray of hope here that there will be

                 some type of special dispensation on this

                 issue which would release certain individuals

                 who have a philosophical or ideological

                 propensity to oppose hate crimes legislation





                                                          7228



                 if sexual orientation is included in there.

                            And I don't know what has happened

                 to those negotiations, but I would encourage

                 anybody who has participated in those

                 negotiations to bring them forward, advance

                 them in any way possible, if that's what it

                 will take.

                            But I would like to point out one

                 thing.  All those people who I speak to in my

                 district -- the blacks, the Jews, the Latinos,

                 the Puerto Ricans, the women, those with

                 disabilities, the homosexuals -- none of those

                 individuals have said to me, despite their

                 anger in not having a hate crimes bill passed

                 in the State of New York, despite the fact

                 that they now don't have those protections

                 because somebody doesn't want to include

                 homosexuals, none of them -- none of them -

                 have said to me, "Senator Hevesi, why don't

                 you go up there and negotiate with the sponsor

                 and pull sexual orientation out and pass the

                 bill tomorrow?"  None of them have asked for

                 that.

                            And I applaud them, and I commend

                 them.  And I commend Senator Duane and all of





                                                          7229



                 those individuals who are members of this body

                 who will not stop until we have this

                 protection.

                            No, this is not a panacea.  If we

                 pass hate crimes tomorrow or tonight, we're

                 not going to end the idiocy that some people

                 have.  We're not going to end this type of

                 psychological problem that leads people to

                 commit crimes to victimize people.  There are

                 other things we can do.

                            But it sends a strong message to

                 those who would commit violence upon people

                 based on some characteristic that they by

                 definition have no control over.  And it

                 would, without a shadow of a doubt, provide an

                 additional penalty for the ugliest crimes that

                 are committed in our society.  Those are hate

                 crimes.

                            So I support Senator Duane in his

                 advocacy.  I support everyone who supports the

                 hate crimes legislation.  I support this

                 amendment.

                            And I support Senator Volker's

                 bill, because I believe that that also will

                 prevent victimization.  That's our purpose in





                                                          7230



                 this legislative body.

                            I support the amendment,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I also rise in support of the

                 amendment.  And listening to Senator Hevesi,

                 who really, I think, spoke with extraordinary

                 eloquence on this, it reminds us that while

                 we're doing some work today and we're getting

                 some good things done -- and I also support

                 Senator Volker's bill, and I think that the

                 DNA data bank will enable us to do justice -

                 there's a lot of other kinds of injustice we

                 have to address.  And we have a lot of

                 unfinished business.

                            I think that it's no secret now, as

                 Senator Hevesi pointed out, why this bill

                 isn't passing.  It's not something that people

                 are unaware of.  It's been going on for a long

                 time.  And we know one thing.  We know this

                 bill is not passing because we won't take out

                 a provision regarding sexual orientation.





                                                          7231



                            And therefore, I submit to you that

                 the message we send every year when the Senate

                 doesn't pass this bill is that the position of

                 our house is that some types of discrimination

                 are okay.

                            Because we understand, and I don't

                 think there's -- you know, there's some

                 arguments about this, but I've never heard a

                 compelling counterargument -- that a

                 bias-related crime is different than a regular

                 assault.  There is no question that when, you

                 know, someone sprays on my house "Charlie

                 Loves Suzy," it has a different effect on

                 me -- it's just graffiti, but it has a

                 different effect than if someone says "Kill

                 the Jews."

                            We know there's a difference.  And

                 it's different because it chills everyone in

                 the category, it hurts everyone in the

                 category of people who is harmed.

                            So I suggest that it's our

                 obligation to face up to the fact that the

                 people of the State of New York are catching

                 on to our failing in the Senate on this issue.

                 It is not okay for us to say we're willing to





                                                          7232



                 pass a bill that says bias attacks against

                 black people and Jews and Asians should be

                 punished with more severity by the law because

                 they are different types of crimes, but we're

                 not going to do it for bias-related attacks

                 against gay people.

                            That is something that is

                 fundamentally offensive.  And as we're

                 finishing the session today -- maybe we are,

                 maybe we're not -- but we're certainly

                 starting a campaign that will go forward into

                 next year.  This is something that is

                 important unfinished business in this house.

                            I support the amendment.  I urge

                 that we take the same steps that we took with

                 the clinic bill and get this done.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 question is on the amendment.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying -

                            Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 a brief additional comment, if I may, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    You wish

                 to speak on the amendment, Senator?





                                                          7233



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The floor

                 is yours.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Gentlemen, I

                 think you're entitled to have a brief report

                 on what is occurring with respect to this

                 bill, and I will render it herewith.

                            I think you should know that

                 shortly after the Cardinal underwent his

                 surgery for his brain tumor, that I received a

                 personal telephone call from him.  In that

                 telephone call, which I must say filled me

                 with the deepest admiration -- even deeper

                 than that I already felt for the Cardinal -

                 he most graciously stated that this matter was

                 still very much alive, that there had been a

                 conference of the bishops, to which he had

                 referred earlier in the year, and that with

                 respect to that conference, a study is being

                 made by a subcommittee of the bishops.  And it

                 was his expectation that sometime in the very

                 near future, possibly as early as the end of

                 October, that that conference would deliver

                 their report to the plenary bishops'

                 deliberations.





                                                          7234



                            May I say to you from the bottom of

                 my heart I believe very deeply in the -- not

                 only the integrity, but in the desire of the

                 Cardinal to do everything within his power to

                 foster goodwill.  I need only point out to

                 you, for example, the letter that he wrote on

                 Yom Kippur to the Jews of New York in which he

                 took the extraordinary step, for the first

                 time in history, of issuing a personal apology

                 for the history of anti-Semitism -- which is

                 an astonishing and saintly act on his part

                 which has been deeply appreciated and

                 understood throughout the state of New York.

                            And I ask you please once again to

                 exert a little patience on this.  I did not

                 intend to speak about it on the floor tonight,

                 but since you are, I think, entitled to be

                 aware of the fact this is not a quiescent

                 matter, it is being considered very carefully.

                            As recently as this afternoon, I

                 received a call from John Kerry, the

                 legislative representative to the Catholic

                 Church, to reiterate the information which the

                 Cardinal did convey.  This is under active

                 deliberation by them.  And it's my profound





                                                          7235



                 hope, although I cannot predict the precise

                 outcome, obviously, that the goodwill evinced

                 by the Cardinal will manifest itself in

                 something which will bring some sort of

                 resolution to this very, very serious problem.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 question is on the amendment.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 amendment is lost.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect December 1, 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Excuse

                 me, Senator Goodman.

                            Senator Duane, why did you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    To speak as I





                                                          7236



                 cast my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    First, I do also

                 want to add that I'll bet that there were

                 people on the bus with Rosa Parks that said,

                 "Why don't you just shut up, Rosa, and sit

                 down where you're supposed to."  But she

                 wouldn't do it, and I'm not going to either.

                            On the DNA database bill, the

                 reason I'm going to cast my vote in the

                 negative -- there are two reasons.  One is I'm

                 very concerned that nothing in the bill speaks

                 to what's going to happen to the samples after

                 the DNA has been taken.  My understanding is

                 that the blood samples can be kept in

                 perpetuity, and I don't see why it is that

                 they can't be destroyed after the DNA has been

                 extracted.

                            And the other issue is I've heard

                 the argument said time and time again that a

                 lot of people who have been falsely

                 incarcerated will now be freed because of this

                 bill.  This from a body which has approved of

                 eliminating money for prisoners' legal





                                                          7237



                 services.

                            If incarcerated people in the State

                 of New York had access to legal protection or

                 lawyers who could go to the database and

                 thereby prove whether or not they were

                 innocent, I would be more inclined to vote for

                 this.  But this legislation neither provides

                 the funding nor the mechanism to really make

                 that happen, and that's why I'm voting in the

                 negative on this.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane will be recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Goodman, to explain his

                 vote.  Senator Goodman passes.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Some

                 housekeeping, if I may.

                            Would you be good enough to record

                 me in the negative on Calendar Number 1682.  I





                                                          7238



                 was out of the chamber on Senate business when

                 this was called.  Senate Bill Number 6143.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Goodman will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1682.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, is

                 there any housekeeping left at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    No.  The

                 desk is clean.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Then, Mr.

                 President, there being no further business to

                 come before the Senate, I move that we

                 adjourn, subject to the call of the Majority

                 Leader, intervening days to be legislative

                 days.

                            Happy Thanksgiving.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, the Senate stands adjourned,

                 subject to the call of the Majority Leader,

                 and intervening days are to be legislative

                 days.

                            (Whereupon, at 6:11 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)