Regular Session - December 28, 1999

                                                              7522







                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                             December 28, 1999

                                 2:31 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary



















                                                          7523



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The invocation

                 today will be given by the Reverend Peter

                 Young, pastor of Blessed Sacrament Church in

                 Bolton Landing, New York.

                            REVEREND YOUNG:    Let us pray.

                            Dear God, as we start this last

                 legislative session of this millennium, we

                 take the time to thank You for the gifts that

                 You have shared with all Your New York State

                 people.  We pray that You grant us the wisdom

                 to carry out our decisions within Your will.

                            Bless us as we continue to conduct

                 Senate business on this final session and with

                 this dignity and sensitivity for the welfare

                 and the concerns of our New York State

                 citizens.

                            May we ask for Your blessing on all





                                                          7524



                 of our Senate leadership for the challenges in

                 the year 2000 and beyond.  We ask You this in

                 Your name now and forevermore.  Amen.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Monday, December 27th, the Senate met pursuant

                 to adjournment.  The Journal of Friday,

                 December 24th, was read and approved.  On

                 motion, Senate adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time ask for an immediate

                 meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 123





                                                          7525



                 in the Capitol.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, Senator.

                 There will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Finance Committee in Room 123 of the Capitol.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time move to adopt the

                 Resolution Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The motion is to

                 adopt the Resolution Calendar.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The motion is

                 adopted and the calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 may I suggest that the Senate be at ease

                 pending the return of the Finance Committee.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:37 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 3:25 p.m.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.





                                                          7526



                            The Senate will come to order,

                 please.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            And if we could return to reports

                 of standing committees, I believe there's a

                 report of the Finance Committee at the desk.

                 I ask that it be read.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            We will return to reports of

                 standing committees.  The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As a member of the Capital District

                 Transportation Authority, Arthur F. Young,

                 Jr., of Delmar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.  Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is





                                                          7527



                 on the confirmation of Arthur F. Young, Jr.,

                 as a member of the Capital District

                 Transportation Authority.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Arthur F. Young,

                 Jr., is hereby confirmed as a member of the

                 Capital District Transportation Authority.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Ogdensburg Bridge and Port Authority, Mary

                 M. Farley, Esquire, of Gouvernour.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Mary M. Farley, Esquire, as a member of the

                 Ogdensburg Bridge and Port Authority.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.





                                                          7528



                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Board of Directors of the Roosevelt Island

                 Operating Corporation, H. Patrick Stewart, of

                 New York City, and Susan A. Whitaker, of New

                 York City.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of H. Patrick Stewart and

                 Susan A. Whitaker as members of the Board of

                 Directors of the Roosevelt Island Operating

                 Corporation.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of





                                                          7529



                 the Advisory Board on Public Work, Daniel J.

                 McGraw, Esquire, of Clifton Park.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Stafford.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Daniel J. McGraw, Esquire, as a member of

                 the Advisory Board on Public Works.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Empire State Plaza Art Commission, Mary B.

                 Buchan, of Rochester; Georgiana G. Panton, of

                 Rensselaer; and Norman S. Rice, of Albany.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Mary B. Buchan,

                 Georgiana G. Panton, and Norman S. Rice as





                                                          7530



                 members of the Empire State Plaza Art

                 Commission.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.  Thank you, Senator.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Central New York State Park, Recreation and

                 Historic Preservation Commission, Stewart F.

                 Hancock, III, of Syracuse, and Fred A. Reuter,

                 of Cold Brook.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Stewart F. Hancock,

                 III, and Fred A. Reuter, as members of the

                 Central New York State Park, Recreation and

                 Historic Preservation Commission.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.





                                                          7531



                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Genesee State Park, Recreation and

                 Historic Preservation Commission, Dawn M.

                 Keppler, of Medina.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Dawn M. Keppler as a

                 member of the Genesee State Park, Recreation

                 and Historic Preservation Commission.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Long Island State Park, Recreation and

                 Historic Preservation Commission, Anthony J.





                                                          7532



                 Bonomo, Esquire, of Franklin Square, and Paul

                 J. Tonna, of Huntington.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Anthony J. Bonomo,

                 Esquire, and Paul J. Tonna, as members of the

                 Long Island State Park, Recreation and

                 Historic Preservation Commission.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Niagara Frontier State Park, Recreation

                 and Historic Preservation Commission, Jean

                 Read Knox, of Buffalo.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.





                                                          7533



                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Jean Read Knox as a member of the Niagara

                 Frontier State Park, Recreation and Historic

                 Preservation Commission.  All in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Fire Fighting and Code Enforcement

                 Personnel Standards and Education Commission,

                 James E. Oare, of Johnstown.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of James E. Oare as a

                 member of the Fire Fighting and Code

                 Enforcement Personnel Standards and Education

                 Commission.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")





                                                          7534



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Interstate Sanitation Commission, Gerard

                 Kassar, of Brooklyn.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Gerard Kassar as a

                 member of the Interstate Sanitation

                 Commission.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Medical Advisory Committee, Michael C.

                 Alfano, of New York City.





                                                          7535



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Michael C. Alfano as a

                 member of the Medical Advisory Committee.  All

                 in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Advisory Council to the Commission on

                 Quality of Care for the Mentally Disabled,

                 James H. Bopp, of Garrison.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            The question is on the nomination

                 of James H. Bopp as a member of the Advisory

                 Council to the Commission on Quality of Care

                 for the Mentally Disabled.  All in favor





                                                          7536



                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Mental Health Services Council, William L.

                 Pollard, Ph.D., of Syracuse.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of William L. Pollard,

                 Ph.D., as a member of the Mental Health

                 Services Council.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Citizens' Policy and Complaint Review





                                                          7537



                 Council, Nicholas D. LaBella, of Utica.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Nicholas D. LaBella as a member of the

                 Citizens' Policy and Complaint Review Council.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Council on Human Blood and Transfusion

                 Services, Gloria M. Rochester, of St. Albans.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Gloria M. Rochester as

                 a member of the Council on Human Blood and





                                                          7538



                 Transfusion Services.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As Major General,

                 New York State Army National Guard, Michael R.

                 VanPatten, of Schenectady.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Michael R. VanPatten as Major General of

                 the New York State Army National Guard.  All

                 in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.





                                                          7539



                            THE SECRETARY:    As Major General,

                 New York State Organized Militia, John P.

                 Bahrenburg, of Poughkeepsie.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of John P. Bahrenburg as

                 Major General of the New York State Organized

                 Militia.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 New York State Home for Veterans and Their

                 Dependents at Batavia, Paul E. Klett, of

                 Webster, and Cathleen Macinnes, of Walworth.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Paul E. Klett and

                 Cathleen Macinnes as members of the Board of





                                                          7540



                 Visitors of the New York State Home for

                 Veterans and their Dependents at Batavia.  All

                 in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Buffalo Psychiatric Center, Jeanne Allison, of

                 Jamestown; Margaret V. Lombardi, of Buffalo;

                 and Ellen J. Maternowski, of Lakewood.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Jeanne Allison, Margaret V. Lombardi, and

                 Ellen J. Maternowski as members of the Board

                 of Visitors of the Buffalo Psychiatric Center.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)





                                                          7541



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Capital District Psychiatric Center,

                 Frederike Barker, of Albany.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Frederike Barker as a member of the Board

                 of Visitors of the Capital District

                 Psychiatric Center.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members,

                 Creedmoor Psychiatric Center, Hector J.

                 Battaglia, M.D., of Centerport, and Christine

                 Spigner, of Jamaica.





                                                          7542



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Hector J. Battaglia, M.D., and Christine

                 Spigner as members of the Board of Visitors of

                 the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Elmira Psychiatric Center, Wendy Dailey,

                 of Andover.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Wendy Dailey as a

                 member of the Board of Visitors of the Elmira

                 Psychiatric Center.  All in favor signify by





                                                          7543



                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Manhattan Psychiatric Center, Agnes A.

                 Violenus, of New York City.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Agnes A. Violenus as a

                 member of the Board of Visitors of the

                 Manhattan Psychiatric Center.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of





                                                          7544



                 the Middletown Psychiatric Center, M. Lori

                 Schneider-Wendt, of Middletown.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of M. Lori Schneider-Wendt as a member of the

                 Board of Visitors of the Middletown

                 Psychiatric Center.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Mid-Hudson Psychiatric Center, John C.

                 Schwartz, of State Hill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of John C. Schwartz as a





                                                          7545



                 member of the Board of Visitors of the

                 Mid-Hudson Psychiatric Center.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center, Anne M.

                 Jackson, of Boonville.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Anne M. Jackson as a

                 member of the Board of Visitors of the Mohawk

                 Valley Psychiatric Center.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.





                                                          7546



                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the New York State Home for Veterans and Their

                 Dependents at Oxford, Herman G. Harrington, of

                 Rensselaer.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            The question is on the nomination

                 of Herman G. Harrington as a member of the

                 Board of Visitors of the New York State Home

                 for Veterans and their Dependents at Oxford.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Queens Children's Psychiatric Center, Mary G.

                 Holowin, of Rego Park, and Ralph M.

                 Somerfield, of Floral Park.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.





                                                          7547



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Mary G. Holowin and

                 Ralph M. Somerfield as members of the Board of

                 Visitors of the Queens Children's Psychiatric

                 Center.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Richard H. Hutchings Psychiatric Center,

                 Myrlene M. Jones, of Syracuse; Patricia M.

                 Okoniewski, of Fulton; and Carol F.

                 Pushchaver, of Liverpool.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Myrlene M. Jones,

                 Patricia M. Okoniewski, and Carol F.

                 Pushchaver as members of the Board of Visitors





                                                          7548



                 of the Richard H. Hutchings Psychiatric

                 Center.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the

                 Rochester Psychiatric Center, Eileen W.

                 Farlow, of Pittsford; Pamela S. Frame, of

                 Rochester; and Edward J. Sardisco, of

                 Rochester.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Eileen W. Farlow,

                 Pamela S. Frame, and Edward J. Sardisco as

                 members of the Board of Visitors of the

                 Rochester Psychiatric Center.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are





                                                          7549



                 hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Rockland Psychiatric Center, Walter C.

                 Blount, Jr., of Orangeburg.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move

                 confirmation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Walter C. Blount, Jr., as a member of the

                 Board of Visitors of the Rockland Psychiatric

                 Center.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

                 President, I understand there's a report of

                 the Rules Committee at the desk.  Can that be

                 read at this time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.





                                                          7550



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 6182, by the Senate

                 Committee on Rules, an act to amend Chapter

                 461 of the Laws of 1999;

                            Senate Print 6187, by the Senate

                 Committee on Rules, an act to enact the New

                 York Health Care Reform Act of 2000;

                            Senate Print 6188, by Senator

                 Leibell, an act to amend the Administrative

                 Code of the City of New York;

                            And Assembly Print 9094, by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend

                 the Legislative Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Move to

                 accept the report of the Rules Committee,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    All in favor of

                 accepting the report of the Rules Committee

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.





                                                          7551



                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The report is

                 accepted.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Could we at

                 this time call up Calendar 63, Senate Print

                 Number 6182.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I'm sorry,

                 Calendar 1729.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 1629 -

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    1729, Senate

                 Print Number 6182.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    -- Calendar 1729.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1729, Senator Bruno moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9091 -

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Lay it

                 aside, please.

                            THE SECRETARY:    -- and substitute

                 it for the identical Third Reading Calendar,

                 1729.





                                                          7552



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The substitution

                 is ordered.  The Secretary will read.

                            And the bill is now laid aside,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Let's stand

                 at ease momentarily.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate stands

                 at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 3:46 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 3:47 p.m.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I believe

                 there's some substitutions to be made at the

                 desk, if we could do that at this time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 9093 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill,

                 6187, Third Reading Calendar 1730.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The substitution





                                                          7553



                 is ordered.

                            THE SECRETARY:    And Senator

                 Leibell moves to discharge, from the Committee

                 on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 9092 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number, 6188, Third Reading Calendar 1731.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The substitution

                 is ordered.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could stand at ease.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate stands

                 at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 3:48 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 4:20 p.m.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could come to order, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 come to order.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could take up the noncontroversial

                 calendar, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary





                                                          7554



                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1729, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 9091, an act to amend Chapter 461 of

                 the Laws of 1999.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1730, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 9093.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1731, substituted earlier today by the





                                                          7555



                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 9092, an act to amend the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 23.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1732, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 9094 -

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time take up the controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, Senator

                 Bruno.  That completes the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            The Secretary will read.





                                                          7556



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1730, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 9093, an act to enact the New York

                 Health Care Reform Act of 2000.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This HCRA 2000 bill that we have

                 before us is one of the most comprehensive

                 health-care packages and will be a model for

                 the rest of this nation, something that all of

                 us in this chamber can be very proud of.  Over

                 a million people who are presently uninsured

                 will have the ability to be insured through

                 this program as the years go on.

                            There is cost containment in this

                 bill that accrues to the benefit of counties.

                 That, coupled with tobacco settlement money,

                 will actually mean about $700-plus million in

                 savings to the counties, some of it present

                 law, some of it flowing through the tobacco

                 settlement.

                            The cost of this program on an

                 average basis is about $80 million a year, for





                                                          7557



                 those that are concerned about the local cost.

                 So there are dollars there for counties to

                 help pay for the uninsured Medicaid portion of

                 this legislation.

                            And we all know that there are

                 substantial increases in the aid to rural

                 hospitals, small hospitals, the HCRA pools,

                 the charity pools, the teaching hospitals.

                 This is a bill that takes us out over three

                 years.  It provides stability to the

                 caregivers here in this state and to the

                 people who receive that care.  It is

                 critically important.

                            Something like this is very

                 difficult to do, very difficult to put

                 together.  There is about $31 billion worth of

                 resources that are being made available to the

                 people of this state through this legislation.

                 It's complex.  It's complicated.  It has some

                 aspects in it like a cigarette tax, a 55-cent

                 per package increase.  Do any of us in this

                 chamber like that?  I don't think so.

                            But if you take a look at the

                 trade-off, that is funding the uninsured in

                 this state, people at the lowest income





                                                          7558



                 levels.  Small businesses are receiving

                 support where they can't presently afford

                 insurance for the lowest-paid people that they

                 employ.  So that's the trade-off.

                            So we have to ask ourselves, is it

                 worth it?  If we are saving lives, if we are

                 helping people access medical care and you do

                 it with that tax, then if there's any validity

                 for anyone to ever support a tax, it's that -

                 over a million people receiving help through

                 what we're doing here today.

                            So I am proud of the role that the

                 Governor played in negotiating this.  He

                 personally, I know, spent a lot of time and a

                 lot of energy to deal with this as an entire

                 package.

                            Senator Kemp Hannon, our chair of

                 Health, spent a lot of time.  People on this

                 side of the aisle, and others in this chamber.

                 And I want to thank you for your efforts,

                 putting aside a lot of your own opinions -

                 and I know that there were opinions -- to

                 bring together a package that does so much

                 good for so many people.

                            And we're concerned with what's





                                                          7559



                 going on with localities, and we're going to

                 address that.  As we go forward, we have a

                 budget that we will be putting together.  We

                 have programs that we contemplate.  And we're

                 going to address that.  We'll address it

                 together.  So that if the municipalities need

                 relief as they go forward, we're going to

                 address that and do what we can to provide

                 that relief.  And we'll do that together.

                            So I'm asking for your support for

                 this.  We all know that HCRA that we passed

                 three years ago sunsets December 31st.  So

                 it's critically important, because there's a

                 possibility of losing federal aid if HCRA

                 sunsets even for a day, and none of us want to

                 have that happen.

                            So I'm pleased that we're here.

                 And that's why we're here, to advance this so

                 that there's no interruption in providing

                 medical services to the people in this state

                 that desperately need that service.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.





                                                          7560



                            I will be supporting this bill.  I

                 intend to vote against it [sic].  And the

                 reasons are many of the whereases that Senator

                 Bruno covered.  Senator Bruno covered the

                 whereas-it's-a-good-bill portions, and I'm

                 going to cover the "notwithstanding whatever,

                 I will vote for it."

                            You know, notwithstanding, Madam

                 President, the fact that I think the increase

                 in the cigarette tax is an invitation to

                 bootleggers and others, such as on Indian

                 reservations, who sell untaxed cigarettes.

                            I five years ago urged the Governor

                 when we had a very difficult budget in 1995 to

                 enforce the Supreme Court decision and collect

                 cigarette sales taxes on cigarettes sold on

                 Indian reservations to non-Native-Americans.

                 And at the time they were estimating it was

                 worth $80 million or $90 million.  I've heard

                 those estimates double.  And I daresay after

                 this tax is effective that the sales will zoom

                 on those tax-free havens which really aren't

                 legally tax-free, we just don't collect the

                 taxes.

                            By the way, the answer I was given





                                                          7561



                 then by Governor Pataki was, well, there was a

                 danger of violence in collecting it.  I

                 remember scratching my head -- that's back

                 when we had four leaders and the Governor at

                 the meeting -- I guess it was five men in a

                 room and a budget then.  Or five men in a room

                 and no budget.  I think it was that year.

                            And I said to the Governor,

                 "Violence from the distributors?"  I mean, you

                 do collect this tax upstream in the

                 distribution thing.

                            So I have a grave concern that this

                 cigarette tax increase will be

                 counterproductive.  The last time we did a

                 50-cent increase, we actually calculated that

                 we lost a hundred million dollars in revenue

                 in this state.

                            I also have a concern about -- and

                 I'm privileged to include in my district, for

                 example, Wall Street, lower Manhattan.  We

                 have some great restaurants in my district,

                 some of the best in the world.  In fact, I'm

                 proud I represent the best steakhouse in

                 America, consistently found to be so.  And I

                 see the wealthy young entrepreneurs; it's just





                                                          7562



                 great in Silicon Alley, it's just great to see

                 these 28- and 30-year-old multimillionaires

                 that have started a high-tech company and gone

                 public, and when they go out to dinner and

                 afterwards, they smoke $20 cigars.

                            It's nice to know they won't be hit

                 with this tax, because Lord knows, how would

                 they afford it, Madam President?  How would

                 they ever afford -- how would they ever afford

                 to pay a tax on those $20 cigars?

                            Indeed, seriously, that's a luxury.

                 Unfortunately, the poor working stiff who's

                 still addicted to his Camels is going to have

                 to pay this tax.  And the new wealthy

                 entrepreneur who reads Cigar Afficionado

                 magazine and fancies a $20 cigar every night

                 will escape any impact.  That doesn't make

                 much sense to me, Madam President.

                            The other thing, the whole idea of

                 a cigarette tax is a confused policy when you

                 rely on the revenue for other purposes.  What

                 do I mean by that?  Well, I think it's the

                 policy of this state to discourage people from

                 smoking cigarettes because it's so bad.  Isn't

                 it because it's bad for health?  I mean, we





                                                          7563



                 know that.  We have antismoking measures.  In

                 fact, one of the good things about this bill

                 is there will be some money in here for

                 antismoking campaigns.  Not enough, but more

                 than we've had.  And that's what the tobacco

                 settlement's about.

                            Now, in theory, to me, I could see,

                 okay, gee, $1.11 tax on a pack of cigarettes

                 hopefully will discourage people from smoking.

                 And if you take the revenue from that and put

                 it back into antismoking efforts, your goal

                 actually should be a zero sum.  Isn't your

                 goal that someday no one will be smoking

                 cigarettes in New York State and there will no

                 revenue from this tax?  That's your goal.

                            This is a tax you're adopting

                 where, according to the policy of the State of

                 New York, you want -- ultimately you want an

                 ever-shrinking revenue, ultimately right down

                 to zero.  And then all of our kids will be

                 healthy, nonsmoking marathon runners,

                 hopefully.

                            Yet we're depending on financing a

                 large portion of our citizens' health-care

                 needs through this revenue.  And I don't know





                                                          7564



                 what it is then.  Is it when we succeed in

                 getting cigarette consumption down to zero our

                 health-care system will collapse, everybody

                 will lose their health insurance?  I mean, I

                 don't understand the policy rationales that go

                 into this.

                            Then we have what I find the

                 inexplicable, and that is -- and someone just

                 put the county-by-county costs.  It said -

                 enough to say we have a Governor who

                 campaigned on the theme, over and over and

                 over again, of being opposed to unfunded

                 mandates.  That campaign was so successful at

                 winning the public attention and their votes

                 that, indeed, many of us on this side of the

                 aisle, many of us Democrats, became ever more

                 fiscally conservative, ever more concerned

                 about local government.  We were happy to take

                 your STAR proposal, the Governor's STAR

                 proposal, enhance it -- which then got

                 adopted, much to the credit of the Majority

                 and the Governor, as the final STAR proposal

                 to save our counties money.  That was a good

                 thing.

                            I don't quite understand giving





                                                          7565



                 with one hand and taking with the other hand

                 back from the counties.  I don't understand it

                 as a matter of policy.

                            Is it all in the pursuit of good?

                 Yes.  Is this a good bill?  It's wonderful to

                 provide insurance for a million more New

                 Yorkers.  It is good to provide all of the

                 other goods that are in here.  It's good to

                 have the stability of a three-year plan with

                 no cuts in Medicaid.  It's good to have some

                 of the cost containment in here.  The positive

                 things in this bill are all very, very good.

                            The policy message underpinning the

                 funding, whether it be the increase in the

                 cigarette tax or the unfunded mandate that's

                 going to cost some counties literally millions

                 of dollars, I think is just very confused

                 public policy, a very confused political,

                 governmental philosophy carrying forward.

                 It's just plain sloppy in terms of that

                 funding.  It sends a funny message or a

                 confused message to the public.

                            Those of us in our party who have

                 tried to catch up with this new wave of

                 concern for fiscal responsibility, respect for





                                                          7566



                 local government, keeping property taxes down

                 and so on, it leaves us very confused.  Just

                 about when you had our attention, just about

                 when we were coming your way on these things,

                 we see a reversal.  I suspect some of us

                 aren't quite ready to embrace that reversal so

                 quickly.

                            All that said, for myself, I'm

                 going to vote for the bill.  I think the goods

                 in it are good.  I think the price to be paid

                 for the bad things in it will be paid

                 elsewhere than where I sit, Madam President.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            A couple of things, just in

                 general.  Because I feel that this is a

                 landmark piece of legislation.  It takes

                 something that was done in 1996, deregulating

                 the hospital system, and builds on it.  It

                 strengthens our support for hospitals and

                 clinics and therefore the health system of

                 this state.  It also happens to eliminate a

                 burdensome fee that has been borne by





                                                          7567



                 purchasers of lab services.

                            And it not only gives stability for

                 3½ years, it ensures something we lost for

                 part of last year; namely, the containment of

                 Medicaid costs to the state and to localities.

                 It continues to do a number of other things.

                 And I believe it generally helps.

                            I would rather there not have been

                 anything on the local governments.  But I'd

                 have to point out to my friend Senator Connor

                 that he's totally mistaken.  I quote, I wrote

                 down that he's catching up with the new wave

                 of fiscal responsibility.  But unfortunately,

                 he hadn't read the current legislation we have

                 in law.  The STAR program doesn't give a cent

                 to people who pay county taxes.  It all goes

                 through only the boards of education, and it

                 goes to people who pay school taxes.  I

                 realize that's not something you realize

                 outside the City of New York, but it's very

                 important to those people.

                            So we are not taking away from one

                 hand and giving to the other.  In fact, we're

                 really benefiting to a lot of people.  And we

                 are benefiting everybody in this state by





                                                          7568



                 strengthening the health-care system.  Whether

                 you be rich or whether you be poor, you need

                 that system strengthened.

                            It's also our understanding that no

                 matter what the type of provider there is,

                 that no future provider cuts in any

                 health-care sector under the Medicaid program

                 will be made for the next three years.

                            My final comments -- and there

                 could be many.  I'm sure that I see my

                 colleague and the ranking member of the Health

                 Committee chomping at the bit, Senator

                 Dollinger.  But someone was talking about,

                 well, you know, you won't get as much revenue

                 if you raise cigarette taxes.  Well, I welcome

                 that.  Because if you don't get as much

                 revenue, it means people will be smoking less.

                            And in fact, in the memo from the

                 American Lung Association in support of this

                 measure and in support of the increase, they

                 talk about the amount of decrease in cigarette

                 consumption that would result from this.  And

                 that's a good thing for the system.

                            And if someone says, well, you've

                 built a slender reed of support if you're





                                                          7569



                 going to be using the tobacco settlement as

                 well as the cigarette revenues for health

                 care -- well, okay, we're going to have to

                 find something else to support health care.

                 It's an essential part of what we do as

                 governing.

                            And if we decreased the amount of

                 people smoking.  Smoking is -- you can get

                 people to stop.  If you can get people to

                 stop, you prevent illness, you prevent death.

                 Doing things that prevent illness and death is

                 a good thing.

                            And I think, therefore, this is

                 just an illustration of a very complex bill,

                 certainly one that some people feel is not

                 something they love totally but on balance

                 is -- has more to support than not.  And it

                 should be supported by everybody in this room.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Will Senator Hannon yield

                 just to a couple of quick questions?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you





                                                          7570



                 yield?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes, I do.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Let me

                 preface my comments by saying these are just

                 three very specific areas that I want to make

                 sure I clarify, and then I'll address the bill

                 generally.

                            First of all, my understanding is

                 that the Family Health Plus program goes into

                 effect January 1st of next year; is that

                 correct?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    No, in

                 February -- I'm sorry, January 1st of the year

                 2001.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    So there's at

                 least 12 months in between now and then when

                 it takes effect.

                            And -- and it goes into effect

                 contingent upon the federal government

                 granting waivers so that its provisions can

                 take effect.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  Again,





                                                          7571



                 through you, Madam President.

                            Is there any money in this bill to

                 advertise the availability of that program?  I

                 know you and I have discussed this issue, and

                 many members have, that one of the problems we

                 ran into with Child Health Plus is that there

                 wasn't enough public information to get people

                 to apply for the program so that the full

                 benefits of the program would be utilized.

                            Is there money in this program

                 allocated to the kind of now public awareness

                 campaign that's going on with respect to Child

                 Health Plus?  I know the Health Commissioner

                 and the Governor are appearing in ads.

                 There've been other efforts and outreach to

                 get the message out.  Is there money in this

                 program for advertising to achieve that end?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    I don't know if

                 it's specifically earmarked, but I'm confident

                 there is money available for not only Family

                 Health Plus but the three aspects of the

                 program that are devoted to private insurance.

                 So that -- and they would have to be looked at

                 as also part of what's going to be available.

                 And I believe that in the monies available to





                                                          7572



                 the Governor that they would be able to

                 publicize it.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  The

                 second question, again, through you, Madam

                 President, if Senator Hannon will continue to

                 media.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hannon,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Under the

                 prior version of HCRA, we had a requirement

                 that hospitals produce a report card or that

                 the Department of Health, in conjunction with

                 hospitals, produce a report card for New York

                 State's hospitals.  It is my understanding

                 that that is not included in this version of

                 the bill.  I'd just like to ask why.

                            And, secondly, the report on

                 hospital report cards was due, I believe, the

                 end of this year.  Is it anticipated that

                 we'll actually get that version of the report?

                            So it's a multiple question, Madam

                 President, and I apologize for its compound





                                                          7573



                 nature.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Let me start

                 with the latter one first, because I can

                 remember it best.

                            The members of the commission,

                 which is the Task Force on Quality Outcomes,

                 have been working in regard -- on a hospital

                 report card and have chosen seven or eight

                 procedures that they feel would be comparable

                 for which there can be risk adjustment.  And

                 they're trying to -- I just spoke with the

                 incoming president of the Medical Society,

                 who's on that commission, and he was somewhat

                 confident that they were moving forward with

                 that.  And that's consonant with everything

                 else I know about it.  So I'm looking forward

                 to seeing that soon.

                            I am not -- one of the things I was

                 dismayed about at the -- towards the end is

                 that the funding for that committee of about

                 $6 million was not continued forward.

                            Notwithstanding that, I believe the

                 use of report cards, greater information for

                 consumers, greater information about

                 physicians, incentives to have our





                                                          7574



                 institutions do better medical procedures -

                 we just saw this Institute of Medicine make

                 some reports using some old New York State

                 information about the large number of failures

                 we have -- there is a need to address quality.

                            We often talk about access,

                 affordability.  The third leg of the triangle

                 is quality.  And we need to do that.  And we

                 need to do it both in terms of practice by

                 physicians and hospitals and institutions as

                 well as taking that quality and taking

                 information and making it accessible to

                 institutions who buy health care, such as

                 corporations, making it accessible to

                 individuals, maybe taking the same type of

                 information and presenting it in different

                 ways -- print, Internet, TV, radio, hotlines,

                 et cetera.

                            And it should be a major endeavor.

                 It's not here, but it doesn't mean it's over.

                 We have a budget, we have a legislative

                 session.  I intend to fully address that.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'll ask my

                 final question and then comment on the

                 chairman of the Health Committee's response,





                                                          7575



                 which I appreciate.

                            My understanding is there's one

                 other provision that was contained in the

                 current version of HCRA.  And as I understand

                 it -- through you, Madam President -- it's a

                 requirement that HMOs that are seeking to

                 raise their insurance rates by more than

                 10 percent a year are required to both give

                 notice and seek the approval of the Department

                 of Insurance, and that that provision is not

                 continued in this version of the bill as well.

                 Is that correct?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    No.  But if I

                 just left it at no, it would be a misleading

                 answer.

                            It's not in the bill, but it never

                 was in the bill.  It was part of this body's

                 and the Assembly's initiative on individual

                 market access.  It was a requirement that if

                 you had a rate increase of greater than

                 10 percent, you must have a hearing.

                            It was never part of the original

                 HCRA.  It was not part of NYPHRM.  It was

                 something else we did with regard to

                 health-care insurance.  I think, as I best can





                                                          7576



                 understand, it was briefly mentioned in some

                 of the meetings, but -- or no, not in the

                 meetings on HCRA, in terms of the course of

                 the legislative session.  And we were

                 expecting it to be addressed in some

                 initiatives on insurance by the Executive, but

                 it is expiring.  But it was not part of HCRA.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate

                 the candor and the spirit of the response of

                 the chairman of the Health Committee.

                            I guess I look at this as one of

                 those boxes of chocolates that Forrest Gump

                 always talked about.  You reach in, you're

                 never quite sure which piece of it you're

                 going to get, but when you look at the overall

                 box and you figure it's got some different

                 wrappings, some different color to it, you

                 decide you want to keep the box of chocolates

                 even though you may know that there a couple

                 of pieces that you're going to bite into that

                 you're not going to like.

                            And I guess from my point of view,

                 the HCRA bill that's been compiled -- again,

                 through the diligent work of certainly the

                 chairman of the Health Committee and the





                                                          7577



                 persistence of the Senate President -- I think

                 comes out worthy of a yes vote.

                            There are certainly parts of it

                 that I think I would find -- I find

                 distasteful, parts of it that taste a little

                 sour in my mind.  Whether it's, as Senator

                 Connor described it, the unfunded mandate to

                 the counties -- and I know that Senator Bruno

                 tells us that in the long run it won't be an

                 unfunded mandate, or it's going to be offset

                 by some other resources.

                            The only thing about that, Senator

                 Bruno, that causes me concern is that this is

                 a piece of candy we're offering to the

                 counties and they're telling us vociferously

                 that they don't want it, that they don't like

                 the taste.  So we can try to put a different

                 taste into it and we can try to put sugar or

                 we can put other confectionery on top of it,

                 but the bottom line is they don't want it.

                            And that suggests to me that when

                 they count up their pocketbook at the end of

                 the year, that piece of candy is not going to

                 be something that they're going to be able to

                 digest or that they want.





                                                          7578



                            I also think, however, that this

                 bill has a number of good aspects to it.  I

                 actually agree with the chairman of the Health

                 Committee that an increase in cigarette taxes

                 in the long run, despite what fiscal

                 implication it may have to us, in the sense of

                 whether Senator Connor is correct -- in the

                 long run, perhaps we expire, the revenues

                 completely disappear when nobody's smoking.

                 When that happens, I think our hospitals will

                 be ecstatic, our health insurers will be

                 ecstatic, the taxpayer will be ecstatic,

                 because we won't be paying for all those

                 smoking-related illnesses.  That would be, in

                 my opinion, the best thing that could ever

                 happen in this state.

                            I'll conclude with one other fact.

                 There were a number of amendments we did the

                 last time we were here when we did the HCRA

                 extension.  It's good to see that this bill

                 incorporates most if not all of them.  And

                 it's not so much that they were ideas that

                 came from this side of the aisle, it's that

                 they were good ideas.  And I think that those

                 good ideas are incorporated in this bill,





                                                          7579



                 whether it's the Family Health Plus piece that

                 I talked about, the EPIC increase that Senator

                 Gentile talked about, additional funds for

                 small businesses, additional contributions to

                 allow small businesses that Senator Breslin

                 talked about.  All of those things -- the

                 rural hospital piece -- those pieces are all a

                 part of this.  And I think that's the way good

                 government ought to work:  ideas get proposed,

                 they get discussed, and eventually they're

                 included in the final compromise.

                            I will close with only one other

                 thing, Madam President.  I hope that the

                 passage of this bill tonight changes only one

                 debate that we have every single year in this

                 chamber.  And I know Senator Saland has

                 carried the bill, Senator Rath has carried the

                 bill.  I think there are a number of members

                 who have carried the bill.  You remember that

                 bill:  the omnibus unfunded mandate bill.  We

                 debate it every year.  Every year it's put

                 forward by the Majority and everybody says no

                 more unfunded mandates, we'll never do it

                 again, stop us if we ever even think about

                 unfunded mandates.





                                                          7580



                            As much sugar as we try to coat

                 this with, let's recognize that's what we're

                 doing.  We're telling the counties that

                 they've got to do something that they don't

                 otherwise want to do.  I think there's a

                 rationale for it, I think there's an

                 understanding for it.  It does parallel the

                 Medicaid system.  It's something we've done

                 for a long time.

                            But if the Majority -- if I could

                 only ask for one thing in this whole new year,

                 even for the millennium, please, now that

                 we're doing this, let's not have the unfunded

                 mandate debate anymore.  Let's call it what it

                 is.  Let's pick up that piece of candy out of

                 the box, let's take a bite out of it and all

                 agree it's an unfunded mandate but we're doing

                 to do it anyway.

                            And maybe next year when the chance

                 comes for someone to pick that out of the box,

                 put that old piece of candy out before the

                 Senate so we can have a debate to fill the

                 time in March or April, let's put it back in

                 the box, close the box up and say, gee,

                 remember when we did the HCRA thing, we





                                                          7581



                 wrapped that box and put that old, stale piece

                 of candy away forever.

                            That's all I would ask.  I wish

                 everyone a Happy New Year.  I'm going to vote

                 in favor of this bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    On the bill,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    As Senator

                 Dollinger so ably stated, although I'll stay

                 away from the chocolate analogies, this bill

                 has so many wonderful things in it for New

                 Yorkers.

                            We live in a state where 1 in 5 are

                 uninsured.  In New York City, more than 1 in 4

                 are uninsured with medical insurance.  But now

                 we have a bill that will increase Child Health

                 Plus, Family Health Plus, help our rural

                 hospitals, do the kinds of things and take the





                                                          7582



                 kind of steps that Democrats on this side have

                 been arguing for for many years.

                            And I commend Senator Bruno,

                 Senator Hannon for bringing this bill to the

                 floor.  But as others have said, and as I've

                 spoken to so many county executives throughout

                 this state, and even the one in Albany County,

                 it's an unfunded mandate.  And that unfunded

                 mandate at a time when our counties are

                 looking for economic development and at a time

                 where we've cut the sales tax and at a time

                 when we're telling them in order to get

                 businesses in their community we have to cut

                 what's left, and that's the property tax.

                            This bill doesn't do it.  This bill

                 doesn't do it.  And at a time when those

                 counties are suffering on the Island and down

                 closer to New York and upstate, we're

                 suffering for revenues to make sure our

                 counties can survive.  Yet we have an unfunded

                 mandate when there's more than enough in our

                 government surplus here to fund that

                 $400 million that's been placed in there.

                            Despite this, for all the other

                 good reasons, for all the other elements that





                                                          7583



                 are contained in this bill, I will vote for

                 it.  But I hope all of us work in this coming

                 year to eliminate that portion of a wonderful,

                 wonderful bill and it will be known ultimately

                 as HCRA without an unfunded mandate.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            There's been a lot of discussion of

                 counties here.  And I think, other than

                 Senator Wright, that I'm probably the only

                 member of this body who has actually run a

                 county government.  And so some of the

                 arguments that my friends and my former

                 colleagues in county government have made

                 resonate with me.  In fact, they can probably

                 go back and find some old speeches I made.

                 And some of you in this chamber may remember

                 some of the old speeches I made about

                 Medicaid.  And so I've had to weigh a great

                 deal of things as we approach this issue here

                 today.

                            But in this body, recognizing that

                 this is a large and diverse state, we deal





                                                          7584



                 with that which we are able to get done.  And

                 today what I think we are able to get done is

                 we are to prevent the expiration of a law

                 which could jeopardize the availability of

                 millions upon millions of dollars for our

                 health-care system.  We preserve for several

                 more years Medicaid cost containment set to

                 expire at the end of this present fiscal year.

                            And at a time when counties are

                 struggling, in partnership with the state, to

                 pursue welfare reform, we address an issue

                 that is a big one in terms of getting people

                 to move from welfare to work.  Many people are

                 reluctant to move from welfare to work, not

                 because they're lazy, but because to do so

                 jeopardizes the availability of health care

                 for themselves and their families.  Or if they

                 go to work in a low-paying job without

                 benefits, they put themselves in the position,

                 if there's a catastrophic illness that they

                 face without health-care insurance, of

                 literally having to spend themselves back into

                 severe poverty.

                            And then there is the feature here

                 of the assistance for rural hospitals.





                                                          7585



                            And so I find there are a number of

                 things in this bill that are compelling and

                 persuasive.  But I must say this -- and here I

                 revert back to my former life.  We in this

                 chamber have to come to grips with the fact

                 that the rate of increase of the county share

                 of Medicaid has been increasing around the

                 state to two and three and, in some counties,

                 four times the rate of inflation.  And

                 counties pay for those through the real

                 property tax.

                            Now, we recognized when we passed

                 the STAR legislation that the property tax is

                 the worst and most burdensome and the least

                 fair of all forms of taxation.  We recognized

                 that and we dealt with it.  And now I think we

                 need to keep an eye on this increasing local

                 share in Medicaid.

                            And that is something that as our

                 leader, Senator Bruno, suggested, that we do

                 need to look at as we get into next year and

                 into the budget cycle.  Senator Rath and I

                 have already discussed a number of possible

                 options and will be preparing legislation, in

                 cooperation with the Majority Leader, to try





                                                          7586



                 to address just that.

                            This is legislation which provides

                 a human necessity to scores upon scores of our

                 constituents.  But as we do that, we need to

                 be mindful that we will have accomplished very

                 little if in providing health insurance to the

                 working poor we place a property tax burden

                 back upon them and we place the primary burden

                 of paying for this legislation on those people

                 it was primarily meant to help.

                            I'm going to vote for this

                 legislation, understanding that it has good

                 and that it has bad, but understanding also

                 that I think this body has additional work to

                 do as we move forward.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Meier.

                            Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I also am pleased to see that in

                 this legislation many of the items that we

                 brought to the floor two weeks ago, in terms

                 of amendments, are now part of this HCRA 2000





                                                          7587



                 bill.  Particularly in two instances, one the

                 lab surcharge on blood, urine, and other lab

                 tests being eliminated, which has been most

                 bothersome to constituents in my district.

                 And I've heard that often enough, and

                 rightfully so, and I'm glad to see that go.

                 Certainly Family Health Plus, the tobacco

                 prevention programs.

                            But also something that's very near

                 and dear to my heart, the new funding for -

                 additional funding for the EPIC program.  And

                 although HCRA 2000 does not specifically

                 increase the eligibility levels for EPIC, I am

                 confident, with the bipartisan support and the

                 support of Senator Bruno, that in the year

                 2000 we will make those eligibilities law.

                 And this is the first step in that direction.

                 So I'm very excited and very pleased by that.

                            However, I must say that any tax

                 increase is an anathema to me, even if it's an

                 increase on sin taxes, like we have here with

                 the cigarette tax.  However -- and I believe

                 the cigarette tax, as Senator Connor has

                 pointed out, is an unfair burden to a certain

                 segment of the middle class, when





                                                          7588



                 particularly -- particularly -- we have not

                 placed that same burden on tobacco sold in the

                 form of cigars.

                            But yet I understand that we have

                 come down to the wire, we are here at this

                 late date with the expiration of HCRA facing

                 us several days from now.  And so we are

                 constrained to weigh the benefits versus the

                 disadvantages.  And in that, the advantages of

                 this bill far outweigh that one disadvantage

                 that I see.

                            Hopefully the advocates for the

                 increase in the cigarette tax are correct in

                 that it will help the health of New Yorkers

                 down the road by discouraging smoking.  I hope

                 that's true.  I hope that works out.  I have a

                 concern about raising that tax.

                            Nevertheless, I will vote in the

                 affirmative because of all the good measures

                 that are in this bill.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I would like to know if Senator





                                                          7589



                 Bruno or Senator Hannon would yield to a

                 question regarding the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    It depends on how

                 hard the question is.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I don't think

                 it's hard.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    That sounds like

                 a yes.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator Bruno,

                 I'm a little concerned -- I intend voting for

                 the bill.  But I'm very perplexed about the

                 aspect as to why we are not taxing the cigars

                 and also we're not taxing loose tobacco or

                 smokeless tobacco now.

                            Because it reminds me, back in

                 World War Two when Lucky Strikes and Camels

                 went to war and we couldn't get cigarettes

                 around, we started rolling our own.  Now, if

                 everybody starts rolling their own, we're

                 going to be losing the revenue that we're

                 hopeful will pay for a lot of the benefits

                 that are coming from this.

                            Do we intend revisiting this bill





                                                          7590



                 again to include cigars, smokeless tobacco,

                 and tobacco for pipes that you can roll into

                 cigarettes, which are all cancer-causing

                 products?

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 it's my understanding that if all of those

                 things were included it might produce $18

                 million, $20 million in revenue, which is

                 substantial.  But to collect it, to enforce

                 it, and to do all the kinds of things that

                 would be necessary to implement it would take

                 a lot of that revenue.

                            And so when this was constructed -

                 because frankly there were people advocating

                 to put it in -- that was the answer.  And

                 those advocating against made the case

                 strongly enough so it was left out by way of

                 compromise.  But that's the answer as to why

                 it's not in.

                            Can we revisit that?  Certainly.

                 There are, you know, a number of things that I

                 think will end up getting revisited as we move

                 into this coming session and the session

                 after.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath.





                                                          7591



                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Much has been said, and I will not

                 repeat so much of what has been said about the

                 good points and the troublesome points.  But

                 Senator Dollinger raised a point that I think

                 he and I have spoken about over the years.

                 And Senator Meier spoke as a representative

                 of -- as a county executive representing a

                 county government.

                            And of course I came from county

                 government, and I think most of us who came

                 from county government know that we labored

                 long and hard to attempt to reduce unfunded

                 mandates, to scale them back, to not have them

                 happen to us.  We looked for bipartisan

                 efforts at welfare and Medicaid reform.  We

                 struggled mightily with that for years.  Sent

                 resolutions to the State Legislature, don't

                 know what happened to them.

                            But I guess we did finally manage

                 to get the attention of some people who have

                 certainly, along with the federal government,

                 managed to get welfare to some extent tamed.

                            The next phase we are at now, at





                                                          7592



                 the next phase.  And it's very troublesome to

                 county governments when they see us make

                 suggestions like this.  Do they not want to

                 help the people who are ill and need the help,

                 the coverage?  Of course not.  They're good

                 guys, they're good men and good women.  But we

                 have a very delicate balance, and I don't

                 think we've addressed that.

                            And as chairman of the Local

                 Government Committee, I would say that if

                 anyone has been remiss, maybe I have been

                 remiss.  Maybe I should have taken on that

                 tiger the first thing I came into this

                 legislature six years ago.  But I intend to do

                 it now.  I intend to take a look at the

                 balance between who levies the taxes and

                 collects them, who provides the services and

                 who takes credit for the tax cuts.

                            Because I think therein lies the

                 rub.  Who wants to be the good guy and who

                 wants to make someone else pay for it while

                 they're taking credit for being the good guy?

                 Well, the local governments want to do it, the

                 state governments want to do it, and I would

                 even suggest the federal government has been





                                                          7593



                 known at times to dip into that pot.

                            And so I think we've got to look at

                 what I consider to be a very important

                 balance.  Because we can't take with one hand

                 and give away with the other, and we can't

                 have property taxes so high that businesses

                 move out.  Because then, as Senator Meier

                 said, people are getting off of welfare but if

                 the businesses aren't there, where are the

                 jobs going to be there for them?

                            It's not a simple process.  We've

                 got a bill here that's going to do a lot of

                 good things.  I will support the bill.  But I

                 will not put, as Senator Dollinger said, that

                 piece of stale candy back in the box.  I

                 should have been looking at it much more

                 faithfully and with a lot more determination

                 earlier.

                            I intend to join with Senator Meier

                 and hope that there will be other colleagues

                 who will want to take a look at what I

                 consider the partnership between the local

                 governments and the state government.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator





                                                          7594



                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So far the

                 debate seems to be unanimous.  Everybody is

                 voting yes, and everybody doesn't like parts

                 of the bill.

                            The difficulty on my part with

                 respect to this bill is the concept of taxing

                 a specific industry because we feel that

                 people should not do a certain thing -- making

                 policy by taxation.  There's just something

                 basically philosophically wrong with that.

                 People don't smoke because they love to smoke.

                 Most of them are addicted to it.  And to force

                 an additional tax in order to change policy,

                 to change people's minds, I'm not so sure

                 that's the best way to do things.

                            For example, we have warnings all

                 over cigarettes.  You could put tumors on

                 cigarettes and these people would still smoke,

                 because they're addicted to it.  So adding a

                 tax isn't going to stop them from smoking, in

                 my judgment, and it's not going to arrive at

                 the policy that we're really trying to arrive

                 at.

                            As far as the revenues that we're





                                                          7595



                 going to generate, we spent years trying to

                 get rid of the so-called Cuomo tax on real

                 property, transactions over a million dollars.

                 Because once it went in, those transactions

                 almost stopped, and the revenues went down

                 incredibly low.

                            With the additional tax, there are

                 other alternatives -- they'd either go to

                 Indian nations, buy bootleg cigarettes.  One

                 letter I got showed that every truck that

                 comes into New York State from Virginia could

                 make a $65,000 profit because of the savings

                 in taxes.  And don't think that people aren't

                 going to do that.

                            So those who are trying to save by

                 this policy are really not going to be saved

                 at all.  The only losers will be our own

                 convenience stores, our own stores that have

                 to pay taxes, unlike some of the other

                 sources, the bootlegging and also the Indian

                 nations.  So this really bothers me an awful

                 lot.

                            Also, we're relying on funds from a

                 tobacco settlement.  We're also relying on

                 funds from this increase in taxes.  I will





                                                          7596



                 guarantee you that neither of those sources of

                 revenue will be the amount that we're relying

                 on.  There's only a certain point in time that

                 tobacco companies are going to be able to

                 continue paying huge settlements without going

                 bankrupt.  Not that that might not be a good

                 idea from a social standpoint.  But the fact

                 of the matter is the revenues aren't going to

                 be there that we're relying on, so we're going

                 to be back to the drawing board again, trying

                 to fill various holes.

                            The counties, we've all talked

                 about the counties, an unfunded mandate.

                 That's also an important point.  But, like

                 everybody else, you can't just look at one of

                 these pieces in a vacuum, because they all are

                 interchangeable.  And what's more important,

                 the policy of having people insured and having

                 people get health care that aren't getting

                 health care right now by maintaining hospitals

                 that are now caring for the poor?  I mean,

                 you've got to strike a balance in each one of

                 these situations.

                            And I guess I have to strike the

                 balance in favor of the bill, and despite all





                                                          7597



                 of these provisions that really bother me for

                 the various reasons that we've talked about.

                            The counties get a benefit that has

                 been mentioned.  But I think it's more

                 significant than has been emphasized.  We've

                 got the cost-containment provisions now for

                 three years.  Last year we had one quarter

                 when we didn't have cost containment, and they

                 lost millions and millions of dollars.  They

                 at least have something they can rely on over

                 the next three years with this bill.

                            Senator Gentile spoke about the

                 8.18 percent tax, which is also a big issue in

                 my district.

                            But the bottom line is if we're

                 going to provide health care for people that

                 can't afford it, if we're going to provide

                 affordable insurance for people that can't

                 afford it right now, we've got to do

                 something, and we're at the 11th hour.

                 Unfortunately, we're at the 11th hour.

                            So in balance, as everyone else,

                 there's parts of the bill that I don't like

                 one bit.  But the benefits from this bill

                 outweigh the bad aspects of it, and I'm going





                                                          7598



                 to vote in favor of it.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            A few years ago we had a budget

                 bill that they called the "Big Ugly."  This is

                 kind of the "Big Ugly."  It's a compromise.

                 It's got all kinds of things that people have

                 mentioned that are obnoxious in it.  The

                 tobacco tax, I don't think it's going to fund

                 it.  The Canadian experience with raising the

                 cigarette tax was a disaster; they had to

                 repeal it.  So many things here -- what it's

                 doing for counties.

                            But let me just say, this is

                 something we have to do.  We have to step up

                 and do it.  We'll lose hundreds of millions in

                 federal aid if this isn't done.  It's a

                 compromise.  We have to get it done before the

                 end of the year.  Nobody likes voting for

                 this, but it's something that has to be done.

                 It has a lot of good in it.  It really

                 addresses a lot.  This house and Senator Bruno

                 has helped a lot of upstate hospitals with

                 this legislation.  There's a lot of good





                                                          7599



                 there.  Certainly the Health Care Plus is

                 very, very significant.

                            How it's funded, these are things

                 that we may have to be revisiting.  I'm

                 confident, as Senator Rath and as Senator

                 Meier said, that this house and this

                 Legislature is not going to skew the counties.

                 We're not going to let that happen.  That will

                 have to be addressed, I think, in the near

                 future.  But reluctantly -- but most

                 importantly, I applaud my colleagues for

                 standing up and voting for something that has

                 to be done.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 138.

                 This act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1732, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,





                                                          7600



                 Assembly Print Number 9094, an act to amend

                 the Legislative Law, in relation to enacting

                 the Lobbying Act.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno, an

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 the legislation before us deals with extending

                 the Lobbying Commission for eight years.

                            We passed a bill in this house a

                 couple of weeks ago, and that bill we thought

                 was more comprehensive than the bill that's

                 before us -- banning gifts, banning meals,

                 banning entertainment, with exceptions.

                            This bill bans all of those things

                 over $75.  This bill also contains increased

                 penalties, which is a good thing -- a $50,000

                 fine for anyone that is willful in filing any

                 false documents, and actually a Class E felony

                 for anyone that does that twice within five

                 years.  It has an auditing procedure that does

                 not exist in the present law, which we think

                 is very, very meaningful in helping this be

                 realistic.

                            So, Madam President, the only way





                                                          7601



                 that we can presently extend the Lobbying

                 Commission, which sunsets December 31st, is by

                 passing this legislation.  With that in mind,

                 and with the aspects in this bill that are

                 pluses in terms of the controls that are

                 perceived as necessary to deal with lobbying

                 in this state, I am urging my colleagues to

                 support this.

                            And I at the same time, Madam

                 President, reiterate on behalf of our

                 conference here that we passed a ban on all

                 meals, all gifts, all entertainment, and we

                 are going to voluntarily abide by that ban.

                 So we will have the best of a bill that

                 extends the Lobbying Commission for eight

                 years, does all of the things that are good

                 that are in this piece of legislation, and at

                 the same time dealing with an issue that has

                 to do with public perception as relates to

                 state officials.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Madam President,

                 the same thing.

                            (Laughter.)





                                                          7602



                            SENATOR CONNOR:    I'll be voting

                 for the bill for the reasons Senator Bruno put

                 forth.  The simple fact that it's the only

                 bill that can become law by the end of the

                 year and keep the Lobbying Commission going.

                            And as a Lobbying Commission bill,

                 it's not bad.  It has a lot of good features

                 to tighten up that system.

                            With respect to the actions this

                 house took two weeks ago, I will not extend

                 today, because it is a special session -- at

                 that time I had noticed a rules change to be

                 voted on for today.  I haven't brought that

                 forth and won't, because there are a lot of

                 members missing and obviously it's a special

                 election.  I know a number of members here are

                 excused, in both houses, that were out of the

                 country and couldn't get back in time.  And I

                 know some of the ones on this side of the

                 aisle want to be present for that discussion

                 and vote.

                            So I will be, when we return in

                 January, filing a notice to bring on a rules

                 change for early in January to embrace

                 effectively what both conferences have done





                                                          7603



                 voluntarily.  And in the meantime, certainly

                 the Senate Democrats will continue as well as

                 to observe the voluntary ban on meals, with

                 the exceptions as set forth in the legislation

                 that this house passed previously.

                            So that said, I urge all my

                 colleagues to vote for this bill before us.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I echo Senator Connor's remarks.  I

                 also want to say that I feel that the

                 bipartisan bill that was adopted in this

                 chamber a couple of weeks ago is far superior

                 to the bill that will be adopted this evening.

                            Will the sponsor of the bill yield

                 for a question or two?  Thank you kindly.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno, do

                 you yield?

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator

                 Lachman.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    This, by the way,

                 is an Assembly Bill.  We don't have a sponsor





                                                          7604



                 in this house.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    I understand.

                 I understand.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    So it's before

                 us; I will attempt to answer your questions.

                 And if I can't, we'll call the Speaker.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Okay.  And if

                 he can't?

                            Just for the process of

                 elucidation, the original S6184, which has

                 your name on it, Senator, provides that

                 nothing in the chapter precludes a locality

                 from enacting a more stringent set of lobbying

                 regulations.  The A9094 bill deletes this

                 provision.

                            Now, aren't we in essence

                 interfering with local government if the local

                 government wants to enact provisions in

                 relation to lobbying that is stronger than

                 this bill?

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            They still -- we are not stepping

                 on the toes of localities.  Localities are in





                                                          7605



                 this, they have all of the same powers that

                 they presently have.  And the aspects of this

                 bill do not become effective for

                 municipalities over 50,000 till a year from

                 now.  And in the interim, the bill that we

                 have before us creates a study commission to

                 study the ramifications on the localities of

                 this legislation, because it doesn't become

                 effective for a year.

                            So if there are any shortcomings,

                 if there are any problems that we are not

                 presently aware of, we'll be able to deal with

                 them within that year.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    On the bill,

                 Madam Chair.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman,

                 go ahead on the bill.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    I think that,

                 as I said before, this bill that we're voting

                 on late this afternoon, early evening, is

                 inferior to the bill that we voted on a couple

                 of weeks ago, which would have been superior

                 if the Democratic amendments had been adopted.

                 But we'll go into that, as Senator Connor

                 said, in the next session.





                                                          7606



                            I feel very strongly that this bill

                 does not prohibit, to the extent that it

                 should, the offering of gifts to public

                 officials.  It makes a minor change in that,

                 and the major change that we sought is absent.

                            I also believe strongly, following

                 that line, that if there is no strong gift ban

                 in any lobbying bill, then it is not really a

                 strong bill.  And it puts me in a very

                 difficult position, because I would perhaps be

                 voting against this bill.  Because I look upon

                 this bill not only as a bill to protect us

                 from what occurred recently with Philip

                 Morris -- and there will be other Philip

                 Morrises in the future.

                            But I also look upon a bill that

                 relegates lobbying not as a temporary measure

                 but as a permanent measure.  And I made this

                 point two weeks ago.  This temporary

                 commission on lobbying should be made a

                 permanent commission on lobbying.  And what is

                 this nonsense of having a sunset provision to

                 a bill against lobbying?  Does this mean that

                 in five, six, seven, eight years from now

                 we'll revisit the bill and we'll say it's





                                                          7607



                 permissible to have these lobbyists do what

                 they are doing now?

                            And primarily, even though this is

                 not part of the lobbying bill, I feel very,

                 very strongly that a strong lobbying bill is a

                 first step in the direction of campaign

                 finance reform.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno, do

                 you wish to be recognized?

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    And this is not

                 a first step in that direction.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    It sounded as if

                 you were asking a question on why we can't

                 permanentize, and I was just going to answer

                 that question.

                            Constitutionally, we cannot make

                 that commission permanent.  It's a

                 constitutional prohibition.  If there wasn't a

                 constitutional prohibition, we would have made

                 it permanent in our bill, the Speaker would

                 have made it permanent in his bill.  That's

                 why we have eight years, and no other reason.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman.

                            Senator Bruno, do you continue to





                                                          7608



                 yield?

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    I do, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    I just want to

                 say, Senator Bruno, I'm only an absent-minded

                 professor, I'm not a legal scholar.  But I

                 have been told by other legal scholars that

                 there are different interpretations of that

                 provision.  And perhaps if we revisit it in

                 the next session we can find a loophole in

                 this area, as we have found loopholes in other

                 areas, to make it a permanent commission.

                            At the same time, let me conclude

                 by saying that I look upon lobbying reform as

                 a first step towards campaign finance reform.

                 This is not a first step towards campaign

                 finance reform.  In doing what we're doing

                 today, we're taking one step backward and a

                 step and a half forward.

                            I have no alternative, since this

                 will go into oblivion, any type of lobbying

                 bill, at December 31st, but to vote for it.

                 But I do hope we can revisit several of these

                 provisions and strengthen it in a bipartisan

                 fashion in this New York State Senate in the





                                                          7609



                 future.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Lachman.  Also for yielding.

                            Senator Morahan, do you wish to be

                 heard on the bill?

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, I do, on

                 the bill.

                            Madam President, I too want to

                 express some dissatisfaction with the bill

                 that's in front of us.  And I had hoped that

                 the bill that we had passed in our last

                 meeting would have been the one that would

                 have been sustained through the process of

                 negotiation between the Speaker and with the

                 Governor.

                            It seems to me that the $25 limit

                 was a good limit to put on gifts and dinners

                 and that sort of thing.  I really don't like

                 to see it go to $75.  I don't like taking the

                 state agencies out of it.  I think perhaps

                 that would even be more important, to keep

                 them in.

                            It's unfortunate that we don't have

                 the bill that we wanted.  But as Senator





                                                          7610



                 Lachman has said, we don't have much choice.

                 This is the only game in town.  This is the

                 only bill that we'll be able to vote on.  It's

                 hard not to vote for some lobbying bill.

                            Frankly, I'm not disappointed that

                 the commission will time out.  It will always

                 give us another opportunity to make a lobbying

                 law stronger.  If it became permanent, we

                 probably would never see it again.  So

                 notwithstanding the eight years or who will be

                 here at the time, it will come up again.

                            I just think we should have had a

                 stronger law.  I like the Senate bill.  I will

                 live by the Senate bill.  And I wish that we

                 could have sustained the battle.

                 Unfortunately, we didn't, and we have this

                 bill in front of us.  And I'll support it, but

                 not with my whole heart.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            What a curious situation this is.

                 Just a few weeks ago we had a shining moment

                 in this chamber when we passed a sweeping and

                 very thoughtful lobby reform measure.  And it





                                                          7611



                 certainly appeared that it would be the bar

                 that the other house would try to climb in

                 addressing the issue of lobby reform.

                            Instead, the Assembly let down the

                 taxpayers of this state and did a tremendous

                 disservice to the many advocates of good

                 government, some of whom are in the chamber

                 today and have worked tirelessly on this

                 issue.

                            What we have in front of us is a

                 mere watered-down version that really gives

                 very faint attention to the basic concept of

                 appearance of impropriety.  It's a very simple

                 issue that we have to face day in and day out

                 as we do our business:  Is there anything that

                 we are doing that would create even the

                 appearance of impropriety?  If there is, the

                 activity should be changed.

                            If it appears that somebody could

                 ever question our motives when we vote on a

                 piece of legislation, we should revisit the

                 circumstances that led to that point in time.

                 And that obviously includes, most basically

                 includes, the practice of having meals paid

                 for by lobbyists.  If the public worries that





                                                          7612



                 we might be making a decision because we've

                 had a friendly dinner with somebody who picked

                 up the tab, then we should simply not engage

                 in that activity.

                            Because in this chamber, and I'm

                 sure in the other chamber, it is the desire to

                 serve the taxpayers of this state to the

                 highest possible level that motivates us to

                 run for office.  We should not be besmirched

                 by any taint, nor should any future

                 legislators be besmirched by any taint.

                            Let's get this behind us.  It's

                 time for the Assembly to understand that we

                 passed an appropriate measure, and they should

                 not try to kid somebody that doing any less is

                 going to still be okay.  I'm embarrassed that

                 this is all we have before us today.  I will

                 vote for it reluctantly.  And I note with some

                 amusement so many of my friends on the other

                 side of the aisle in the other house have

                 voted against this same measure because they

                 were utterly disgusted that this was all they

                 had, and they wanted the Senate Bill and they

                 said so.

                            I call upon the Speaker of the





                                                          7613



                 Assembly to engage in the kind of good-faith

                 negotiations that he should have when Senator

                 Bruno first talked with him about this

                 measure.  It was a negotiated bill that we had

                 in this house.  It should have been the same

                 bill or an even better bill in the other

                 house.  Instead we have a lesser bill today in

                 order to keep the Lobbying Commission alive.

                            I will vote aye, but I certainly

                 hope that we will be back sometime soon with a

                 meaningful piece of lobby reform.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I agree with Senator Hoffmann,

                 except -- with everything except the result.

                 And that is I don't think this bill is worthy

                 of a yes vote until it has a gift ban included

                 in it.  And I think what we ought to do is

                 stand up for the principle that we all stood

                 up for two weeks ago.  Senator Bruno went to

                 the table to get it and didn't get it.

                            What I think what we ought to do -

                 and I know it hasn't been done before -- is





                                                          7614



                 simply tell the Assembly they got the wrong

                 view on this bill, that the right thing to do

                 is to ban gifts.  And frankly, it's consistent

                 with a message that I've heard in this house

                 the whole time I've been here, and that is

                 that we should have personal responsibility.

                            And it seems to me that if you take

                 that general principle and apply it to the

                 integrity of government in the eyes of our

                 voters, they realize that the process of

                 influencing government is dependent upon two

                 things.  It's dependent on the conduct of

                 those who try to influence us -- which is what

                 this bill does.  This bill deals only with the

                 giver.  It doesn't deal with the recipient.

                            And it seems to me if we want to

                 restore integrity, what we have to do is what

                 Senator Hoffmann said, put restrictions on the

                 givers but accept some restrictions on the

                 recipients, ourselves, in order to say to the

                 people that the notion that we meet with and

                 talk to people who are influencing us,

                 attempting to influence us on behalf of their

                 interests, that we can stand up and say we

                 don't take their gifts.





                                                          7615



                            Frankly, at least in my neck of the

                 woods, when a stranger gives you a gift, you

                 should be very, very suspicious of their

                 motive.  And frankly, when someone who wants

                 to influence you gives you a gift, you should

                 even be more suspicious of their motive.

                            And it's unreasonable for us to say

                 that we have no personal responsibility in

                 restoring the public's -- "restoring" maybe is

                 the wrong word -- in maintaining the public's

                 confidence in us.  It seems to me that's what

                 it's all about.  We should take the personal

                 responsibility and put restrictions on us, the

                 recipients, the same way we now put those

                 restrictions on the giver alone.

                            I would strongly suggest that this

                 bill only provides half of the equation for

                 maintaining the public's confidence in us and

                 the public's confidence in the integrity of

                 government.  I will not vote for this bill

                 without a ban on gifts to members of the

                 Legislature.  I think Senator Bruno was right

                 two weeks ago, this house was right two weeks

                 ago, and to vote for this bill now is wrong.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last





                                                          7616



                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1, 2000.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 is there anything left at the desk that should

                 be attended to?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    No, there is not,

                 Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Then there being

                 no further business to come before the Senate,

                 I would move that we stand adjourned, subject

                 to the call of the Majority Leader, and take

                 this opportunity to wish all of you a Happy

                 New Year and a happy new millennium, and we'll

                 see you in the year 2000.  Be safe.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    On motion, the





                                                          7617



                 Senate stands adjourned until the call of the

                 Majority Leader, intervening days being

                 legislative days.

                            And as president of the Senate, I

                 wish everyone a Happy New Year and millennium.

                            (Whereupon, at 5:30 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)