Regular Session - March 29, 2000
1818
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
March 29, 2000
11:09 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
1819
P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance to the Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: In the
absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a
moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Tuesday, March 28th, the Senate met pursuant
to adjournment. The Journal of Monday,
March 27th, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Senator Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
1820
President.
It is indeed my pleasure to
introduce to my colleagues and to the house
our newest member, elected yesterday as the
State Senator representing the 10th District
in the County of Queens.
Malcolm Smith, our newest Senator,
earned his degree from Fordham University in
business administration, with a concentration
in economics. He's continued graduate work in
economics and public finance. Frankly, Mr.
President, he may be here just in time, if the
budget -- we may break the impasse, you know?
A real estate developer by trade,
Senator Smith is no stranger to politics.
While it's his first elected office, he's been
the senior aide to former Congressman Floyd
Flake and a chief aide to City Council Member
Archie Spigner.
Mr. Smith is also a former
executive director in the New York City
Mayor's Office of Economic Development, and
has served as president of the Neighborhood
Housing Services of Jamaica. Currently he's
the president and founder of Smith Development
1821
Corporation.
Throughout his public service,
Senator Smith has used his skill at managing
and developing residential and commercial
projects to benefit the city and its
residents. Because of his efforts, he was
recently honored with the Community Economic
Development Award from the New York State
Association of Black and Puerto Rican
legislators.
We welcome Malcolm Smith. I
think -- I've had the pleasure of knowing him
for some time now. I think those of you who
haven't met him will enjoy your association
with Senator Smith. He is a fine gentleman
and brings a wealth of expertise and knowledge
to the position.
I know, Mr. President, you'll join
with me in extending a welcome to his family
who's here today -- his wife, Michele; his two
children, Julian and Amanda; his sister,
Deborah Gaston; his brother-in-law, Edward
Harper; his two sisters-in-law, Mikki
Ward-Harper and Deborah Maisonette; and his
two nieces, Diane and Tracy Shanu.
1822
Mr. President, we are happy, the
oath is on file, Senator Smith is now one of
us.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Smith,
on behalf of Senator Bruno and the Senate
Majority, we welcome you to this great
institution that we all love. Congratulations
on your election.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Smith, we welcome and congratulate you and
your family here today. And we certainly all
look forward to getting to know you and to
work with you.
You present us with a bit of a
dilemma. We now have two Senator Smiths. But
we'll try to tell you apart. It shouldn't be
too difficult.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
1823
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese,
from the Committee on Elections, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 1196, by Senator Lack,
an act to amend the Election Law;
1958, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Election Law and the State Finance
Law;
And 6961, by Senator Maltese, an
act to amend the Election Law.
Senator LaValle, from the Committee
on Higher Education, reports:
Senate Print 2676, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the Education Law;
2756, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Education Law;
5897A, by Senator Velella, an act
to amend the Education Law;
6487, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
And 6683, by Senator LaValle, an
act to amend the Education Law and the Public
Health Law.
1824
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, all bills are reported directly to
third reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
On behalf of Senator Morahan, on
page Number 19 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 378, Senate
Print Number 5861A, and ask that said bill
retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received, and the bill will
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: You're
so welcome, Senator McGee.
1825
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
are there any substitutions to be made at the
desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, we
have three, Senator.
SENATOR SKELOS: If you would
make them at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the substitutions.
Well, sorry, we actually have five.
The Secretary will read the substitutions.
THE SECRETARY: On page 29,
Senator Fuschillo moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Judiciary, Assembly Bill Number
6872 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 6518, Third Reading
Calendar 503.
On page 29, Senator Lack moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,
Assembly Bill Number 9003 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6885,
Third Reading Calendar 504.
On page 31, Senator Bonacic moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Local
1826
Government, Assembly Bill Number 9580 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6593, Third Reading Calendar 524.
On page 31, Senator Johnson moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Health,
Assembly Bill Number 9429 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill 6406, Third
Reading Calendar 526.
And on page 34, Senator Stafford
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
Veterans and Military Affairs, Assembly Bill
9565 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Print Number 6582, Third Reading
Calendar 555.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitutions ordered.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
On behalf of Senator Larkin, I move
that the following bill be discharged from its
respective committee and be recommitted with
instructions to strike the enacting clause:
Senate Number 2120A.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: So
1827
ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there's a privileged resolution at the desk by
Senator Rath. May we please have the title
read and move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the title of the
privileged resolution.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator Rath,
Legislative Resolution Number 3547, commending
Richard E. Forrestel upon the occasion of his
designation by the Akron Chamber of Commerce
as its Citizen of the Year.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
1828
if we could take up the noncontroversial
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
219, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3514C, an
act to amend the Labor Law and the Urban
Development Corporation -
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
227, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4438, an
act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law,
in relation to the powers of the Housing Trust
Fund Corporation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44.
1829
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
232, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 35 -
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
358, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1888, an
act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,
in relation to spectators at exhibitions of
animal fighting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
417, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3106A -
1830
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
439, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1609 -
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
451, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1621, an
act to amend the -
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
452, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2977, an
act to amend the -
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
462, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5253, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
1831
fees for advanced placement examinations.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
478, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6584 -
SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
479, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 6669, an
act in relation to adjusting certain state aid
payments -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1832
498, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7064, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
homeowners insurance catastrophe coverage.
SENATOR HEVESI: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
564, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 7031,
an act to amend Chapter 55 of the Laws of 1992
amending the Tax Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
565, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 7032,
an act to amend Chapter 887 of the Laws of
1983 amending the Correction Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
1833
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I'm sorry, I think I missed -- were
three -- I'm sorry, 232 and 258, were either
of those laid aside or voted on? I'm sorry.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 232 was
laid aside.
What was the other one, Senator?
SENATOR DUANE: 358.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 358 was
passed.
SENATOR DUANE: I'd like to be
recorded in the negative on that, without
objection, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
1834
objection, Senator Duane will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 358.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could take up the controversial
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
219, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3514C, an
act to amend the Labor Law and the Urban
Development Corporation Act, in relation to
enacting the "Utility Industry Worker
Adjustment Act."
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
temporarily.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: We'll
lay that aside temporarily and come back.
The Secretary will continue to read
the controversial calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1835
232, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3529, an
act to amend the Insurance Law and the General
Obligations Law, in relation to the use of
lands for recreational activities.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar Number 232 by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Mr. President, this bill would
amend primarily Section 9103 of the General
Obligations Law. That particular section of
the General Obligations Law currently
encourages the use of private property for any
number of recreational activities. They're
enumerated at length in Section 9103.
And what that section does in part
as well is to make it clear that in the course
of encouraging the use of land for
recreational activities, it is not the intent
of that section to limit liability for willful
or malicious failure to guard or warn against
dangerous conditions, use, or structure that
may be part and parcel of the properties which
1836
have been opened for such recreational uses.
This legislation proposes to
further encourage the use of land and water
areas for recreational purposes. It's
consistent, I think, with the state's overall
policy of protecting open space and
encouraging recreational use.
And it's part and parcel and also
amends the Insurance Law, to provide that the
commissioner -- I'm sorry, the Superintendent
of Insurance shall study and make
recommendations to the Governor and to each of
the houses of the Legislature within 18 months
with regard to the result -- the -- I'm sorry,
with regard to controlling the costs of
property and liability insurance coverage for
landowners who engage in this proposed use.
This bill effectively builds on the
existing law and would encourage greater use
of open lands and other lands such as
farmlands for recreational use by countless
New Yorkers who would seek to avail themselves
of it and are currently being discouraged -
owners who are being discouraged by the threat
of actions for liability.
1837
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
Would Senator Saland yield for a question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: And would
Senator Saland wait while I think of a
question?
(Laughter.)
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, would
you distinguish for us the difference between
what would be the obligations due on the
landowner or the lessee depending upon the
condition where the lessee allowed people on
the property even though the landowner
expressly forbid it in this type of
identification that's described in your bill?
Who would then be responsible?
SENATOR SALAND: Could you please
rephrase that question for me, Senator
1838
Paterson?
SENATOR PATERSON: Well, let's
say that you go away for the summer and lease
your property to me, and you have signs up
making it clear that you don't want people to
use the property for recreational purposes,
and then at that point I let people on the
property. Who is liable?
SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, if I
can -- you as the lessee; right?
SENATOR PATERSON: Right.
SENATOR SALAND: Okay. And
continue with your question, I'm sorry.
SENATOR PATERSON: That actually
is my question. Who is responsible? This is
turning out to be a pretty good question.
In other words, Mr. President, for
Senator Saland's amplification, who would be
granted the immunity, the lessee or the
landlord, the landowner?
SENATOR SALAND: Assuming that
your -- the answer to your question is
contained in what would now be Section 3C, and
I'm currently . . .
SENATOR PATERSON: Would you like
1839
to use your lifeline, Senator LaValle?
(Laughter.)
SENATOR SALAND: I believe, if
I'm reading Section 3C correctly, both the
owner or the owner, lessee, or occupant would
not -- let me -- bear with me a second here,
if you would.
If I'm reading Section 3C
correctly, the freedom from liability would
remain primarily with the owner as
distinguished from the tenant.
SENATOR PATERSON: That's the
answer, then?
SENATOR SALAND: Is that my final
answer?
(Laughter.)
SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
SENATOR SALAND: I guess that
shouldn't be my final answer. Because
Subdivision 2 in several places, all of the
subsections, makes reference to an owner,
lessee, or occupant as being free from
liability. And then Subdivision 3 talks about
the lack of freedom from liability.
SENATOR PATERSON: This, Mr.
1840
President, is what's known in literature and
the media as a pregnant pause.
Is he finished? Oh.
In that case, Mr. President, would
Senator Saland yield for another question?
SENATOR SALAND: I'll always
yield for you, Senator Paterson.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: The price goes
up on these questions, Senator. You're doing
fine so far.
I guess in response to your
answer -- and this certainly is something you
would be invited to take a look at. And you
can tell me about it later, but I just wanted
to raise it with you now. Does the owner of
the property have to make some type of
affirmative action, in other words, in
granting the lease so that we make sure in the
legislation that the owner is -- still has the
immunity that you're seeking in the
legislation?
I would assume that the owner does
not. But I just wanted to hear your opinion.
1841
SENATOR SALAND: I would believe
that there would be nothing necessarily
required of the owner as a landlord unless he
or she chose, for purposes of having a greater
degree of insurance. I think the language in
the statute would adequately protect the
owner, the lessee, or the occupant.
We haven't done anything that -- by
way of this proposal that would change the
existing law. And I believe under the
existing law, that protection currently
attaches to the owner or landlord as well.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
President. If Senator Saland would yield for
another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
want to turn your attention to a different
part of the legislation, and really what is
dialectically my problem with the bill.
1842
And it is that I don't understand,
in terms of public policy, why we would want
to reward individuals who would be
restrictive, in the sense that they would draw
the perimeters by which others might use their
land for recreational purposes, and then hold
them really to a lower standard of care than
those individuals who would actually make it
easier for their neighbors to use their
property.
My question is, what happens to
those who don't restrict their property? It
would seem to me that they're being good
neighbors, they're acting with goodwill,
they're doing the kind of thing that we would
want to encourage people to involve themselves
in. And then, consequently, they are held to
a higher standard of care under the law should
an accident occur.
SENATOR SALAND: I'm not quite
sure if I fully understand your question, for
which I apologize.
But let me suggest to you that
where -- we are not doing anything that
changes the current status of the law, other
1843
than to say that we are making it -- our
intention is to make clear that all
recreational activities, as distinguished from
those specifically enumerated under 9103, will
currently be protected for a landowner or -
in the case of a landowner who elects to
permit people to come across his property.
I'm not quite sure that there has
been any great hue and cry with regard to any
abuse of the existing law under the
multiplicity of recreational uses that are
enumerated in what is currently numbered
Section 2.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
President. If the Senator would continue to
yield.
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor continues to yield.
SENATOR PATERSON: Just to be
more specific -- and it just came to me in a
voice, because I hear voices in this chamber.
1844
It's been going on for the last few years.
And I thought it was Senator Onorato's voice
that I heard.
It was saying, what if there were a
swimming pool on someone's property and they
put a sign up saying you're not allowed to use
the property? Now what they have is a lowered
standard of care for the upkeep of the
swimming pool. In other words, now if the
swimming pool is defective -- let's say it
doesn't have a fence around it of a six-foot
height, which is a regulation -- they are now
going to use the immunity to get out of the
standard of care that they would normally have
to provide anyway.
So my concern was that your
legislation, well-intended -- and I see its
purpose. And I think you explained it quite
well, so I don't have to restate it. But I
just am frightened that there is a way in
which the intent, the well-meaning intent of
this legislation could be twisted by those who
think that by erecting a sign, they then
therefore have less of a duty than they had
ordinarily.
1845
SENATOR SALAND: I would find it
difficult to believe that in your swimming
pool example that inasmuch as I believe it's
not merely a matter of local ordinance -- I
believe that it may also be a matter of state
regulation, but I'd be very happy to stand
corrected -- all pools are required to have
fences. Certainly within the communities that
I represent, each and every of them has a
requirement for fencing. I don't believe that
you could possibly give yourself an immunity
bath.
I would think that you would wind
up finding yourself being subjected to one of
the exceptions that are listed under the
current Subsection 3. Because the failure to
build that fence or erect that fence would
certainly seem to me to constitute something
that would be willful, at the very least.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
Senator Saland is right. My example is all
wet. The reason is because I gave an example
that required -
SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me, I
know it wasn't your example. It was Senator
1846
Onorato's example.
SENATOR PATERSON: That's right.
SENATOR SALAND: You were merely
being a conduit. I understand that.
SENATOR PATERSON: Well, let's
leave out conformity with local ordinances or
regulations, which you properly pointed out
would have cured that particular situation.
You're absolutely right.
I was just saying that just the
standard of care that might be measured by a
court becomes lower, I felt, based on the
existence of this warning. That, in other
words, the warning becomes a protection, to a
certain degree, to the landowner that we might
as a matter of public policy not want to
afford, when others who actually allow
individuals on their property don't get the
same immunity as well.
That's all I was saying. And I
won't even phrase that in terms of a question,
Mr. President. That was just a clarification
for Senator Saland.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
1847
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect in 180 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 232 are
Senators Connor, DeFrancisco, Dollinger,
Duane, Gentile, Morahan, Onorato, Paterson,
Sampson, Schneiderman, Seabrook, and Stavisky.
Ayes, 42. Nays, 12.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
417, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3106A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal
Procedure Law, and the Family Court Act, in
relation -
SENATOR VOLKER: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: We'll
temporarily lay aside 417.
The Secretary will continue to
1848
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
439, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1609, an
act to amend the Correction Law, in relation
to requiring inmates to make medical
copayments.
SENATOR VELELLA: Lay that aside
until Senator Skelos returns.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside temporarily.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
451, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1621, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
the Family Court Act, in relation to the
visitation rights of great-grandparents.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
LaValle, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 451 by Senator Duane and others.
SENATOR LAVALLE: This -- thank
you very much, Mr. President.
1849
This also gives me an opportunity,
before I begin to explain the bill, to mention
that on Sunday evening I for the third time
became a grandparent. Again, my daughter Lisa
Russ gave birth to Joshua Eric Russ on Sunday
evening at 10:30 at Winthrop Hospital in
Nassau County. And so as a grandparent, I
obviously have great enthusiasm and will
probably be a pain-in-the-neck grandparent,
doting over Joshua Eric as I have my grandson
Elvis and my granddaughter Jessica.
This legislation that we have
before us allows for the realities of today,
for great-grandparents to have the same
opportunity and the same privilege that a
grandparent has, where a child -- through a
divorce or another situation, a grandparent
today is allowed to petition the court for
visitation rights.
And so we want great-grandparents
to have that same ability. Through modern
medicine, people are living longer, and it is
becoming very commonplace for great
grandparents to be very much as involved as
the grandparents in the bringing up,
1850
interacting with the child.
And so it's a very simple bill,
because all we're doing is adding
great-grandparents to the statute to allow
them to petition the court.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. Would the sponsor yield to some
questions?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
Under this statute, is it possible
for great-grandparents to sue for visitation
rights even after an adoption has taken place?
SENATOR LAVALLE: They would -- I
would believe so, Senator Duane. Yes, I
believe that that could take place.
Because they would -- they would
still be a great-grandparent of the natural
parents who brought this child into the world.
So I believe the answer is yes to your
1851
question.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor continues to yield.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm concerned
that this could potentially interfere with the
bonding which would happen between the
adoptive parents, who in fact are the parents.
And therefore, wouldn't it be
entirely possible that great-grandparents, who
no longer have any parental line to that child
besides their biological line, would be able
to be interfering in the adoptive or the now
real parents' family and impact the bonding
between an adoptive child and that child's new
family?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator Duane,
I have been -- you know, as an attorney, have
been in Family Court, and I've witnessed other
cases that have been in the Family Court where
you have had situations where a child was
moving through the process from foster care,
1852
foster parents who then were going to be the
adoptive parents.
The court seems very sympathetic in
situations I've witnessed. The only issue of
the adopting parent is usually issues like,
no, we want the child to be able to interact
with people that they have in the past.
And it's always basically an issue
of timing. The adoptive parents will usually
say, you know, to the court, can we have some
notification or can we set up some sort of
schedule that is common sense and logical,
that it's not going to be disruptive to the
child and the new family.
But usually the new family is very
sensitive to those kinds of things and doesn't
want to dislocate the child from that former
life, former situations.
You're right in raising this as an
issue. But I think that the court usually
acts as a transitioning agent to make sure
that things are smooth, that there are not
going to be, you know, abuses, and yet
recognize the rights of individuals from the
former life into the new life.
1853
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
LaValle, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I have absolutely
no objection to a case where the adoptive
parents are willing and happy to have the
great-grandparents and grandparents or even
the biological parents involved.
However, isn't it true that in
this -- through this law, what happens is that
rather than making it the choice of the legal
parents of the child once they have moved from
foster care into, you know, adoption, into
legal adoption, that the -- then the
decision-making is no longer resting in the
hands of the parents of the adopted child?
And instead, even if -- though -
should not that decision rest in the hands of
the parents of the child while that child is
not of legal age?
1854
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, as you
know, this bill allows the -- as we presently
have grandparents who can petition the court
for visitation, we are allowing
great-grandparents.
Where there seems to be a problem,
Family Court and Family Court judges are very
sensitive to these issues. If there was going
to be a dislocation and a disruption in the
child's life -- because, don't forget,
everything in our law is based on the best
interests of the child. That's the key, the
best interests of the child.
And so if there were a situation
and there was a petition before the court, the
judge -- the judge would deny that petition.
It doesn't give them a lock; it gives them a
right to petition the court.
And so I think Family Court
judges -- I know I can only speak to Suffolk
County, where I think we have a great team of
Family Court judges under the supervision of
Judge Freundlich, our presiding judge of the
Family Court -- would make sure that the best
interests of the child were being protected.
1855
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
If I may speak on the bill, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: I am genuinely
very, very conflicted about this legislation.
I generally feel that the more parents that
are involved and the more adults that are
involved in the upbringing of a child, the
better it is.
I know that it would seem odd for
me to -- to sound so compelled by the idea
of -- or some of the arguments put forward by
those who are -- it's -- who I sometimes
believe use the term "traditional families" in
a sort of punitive way -- to also, though, in
this case, to find myself to be very compelled
by their arguments.
I'm concerned in, for instance,
cases where an adoptive parent -- adoptive
parents may have, for instance, a different
religion than the religion of the grandparents
or the great-grandparents, and that because
they didn't agree with that religious
1856
upbringing, the great-grandparents or
grandparents, that they could potentially use
this law to intrude upon the upbringing of the
child or to harass the adoptive parents'
positions on the upbringing of the child.
Even the initiation of a court
proceeding can be very disruptive to a family
when they try to get on with their lives.
And I actually -- even as I -- and
I'm really thinking out loud about this
legislation. I don't know how I'm going to
vote on it. And I actually would be
interested to hear if anybody else wanted to
speak on it. I never need any encouragement,
but if I can encourage others to maybe talk
about this a little bit more.
On the one hand, as I say, I think
the more adults that are involved in a child's
life and upbringing, the healthier that tends
to be. On the other hand, I could also see
mischief and malice being used under the -
under the provisions of this legislation.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
1857
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
would Senator LaValle yield for a few
questions?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
LaValle, will you yield for a question from
Senator Paterson?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: First of all,
Senator LaValle, congratulations on the birth
of your grandson. And as vigorous and
tireless as you seem to be around here, I
think this type of legislation might apply to
you one day.
Because as you pointed out, there
were 20,000 Americans in the year 1990 who
lived past 100 years. At the stroke of the
millennium, there were then 40,000. So you're
absolutely right about the increased medical
care and people living a lot longer than they
have lived before.
This legislation would seem to
apply, since we have already granted this
right to grandparents, we would want to extend
1858
it to great-grandparents. The only concern
that was raised was for the number of
petitions floating around the court, that
there are so many parties now that could
become part of a legal proceeding.
Would this not be somewhat
confusing for the entire situation of the
disposition of visitation, to have so many
people involved?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, you
know, that's a hard question to answer. It's
quite a subjective answer on my part.
But we -- I assume that
great-grandparents who are making a petition
feel they have a stake in the petition, in
this child, because they have both emotionally
and physically taken care of this child at one
point, along with the grandparents. In those
situations where great-grandparents just
tangentially know the child, I don't assume
that they're going to petition the court.
This is -- if you go through an
action to petition the court, you must have
strong feelings that you can make a difference
in that child's life or that you feel that you
1859
could make a difference in the child's life.
So I can't answer it in any other
way than the manner that I have. Period.
SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, I'm sorry,
Senator. If the Senator would yield for one
last question.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I
voted for the bill last year, and I'm going to
vote for it again.
I just wanted to ask you for your
advice or just your thoughts on the issue of
where there is a conflict between different
generations. For instance, you might have
grandparents or great-grandparents that had a
religious standard that they thought should be
observed or that they didn't want there to be
a religious standard to be observed. The
parents vehemently oppose it. The visitation
then becomes a point of confrontation on the
issue rather than on the best interests of the
child.
Do you see that possibly
1860
complicating the situation at all?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Oh, I designed
it -- as I had indicated to Senator Duane,
that I believe that when that petition moves
forward in the courts and all the parties have
an opportunity, and you -- and the court,
taking the best interests of the child, see an
enormous conflict, a conflict that cannot be
resolved, I'm not sure the court moves forward
with that petition.
So again, I just say that the mere
fact that the great-grandparent or even a -- a
grandparent or great-grandparent petitions the
court doesn't give them a lock that the court
is going to grant that visitation. And if
there is so much conflict over a very
important issue such as religion, as you bring
up, well, I'm not sure the court is going to
grant that petition, Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
1861
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Actually, just to
explain my vote. I'm sorry, I didn't stand up
fast enough.
I am voting yes on this -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Just a
second, Senator Duane. We'll withdraw the
roll call, then.
Senator Duane, you're now
recognized to explain your vote.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm sorry to make
everybody in the chamber listen to my tortured
thinking on this.
I'm going to vote yes on this. But
I would also, if perchance it doesn't pass
both houses and get signed into law by the
Governor this year, I would look forward to
hearing a little bit more debate on this
issue, and see if some of these other concerns
can be addressed. And maybe to also find out
the experience in other states with this kind
1862
of legislation.
But I am going to vote in the
affirmative on it, with some misgivings.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the affirmative.
Senator Ada Smith, to explain her
vote.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
Mr. -- oh, I'm sorry, finish that.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Oh,
okay.
The Secretary will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Ada Smith.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you.
Mr. President, I request unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 232.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Ada Smith will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar Number 232.
1863
Senator Malcolm Smith.
SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH: I ask for
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar Number 232.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Malcolm Smith will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 232.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
452, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2977, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to child abuse.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Senators, we're on the controversial calendar.
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, Mr.
1864
President. I believe that Senator Montgomery
would like an explanation.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I
would, thank you.
SENATOR PATERSON: She would.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, Senator Montgomery is requesting an
explanation of Calendar Number 452.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Mr. President, currently under the
Social Service Law there are a number of
provisions for fair hearings. They deal with
a variety of subject areas -- medical
assistance, food stamps, home relief. None of
them, with the exception of the provision for
a fair hearing under the abuse and neglect
section, provide for an automatic right to a
hearing. They basically provide the applicant
with a due process right to a hearing upon
notification.
What this bill attempts to do is to
take care of the problem that currently exists
under the neglect and abuse section, wherein
approximately 30 percent of these cases wind
1865
up in defaults. The hearing is called, the
time and expense associated with the hearing
and the provision of a hearing officer becomes
an expense that is an unnecessary expense in
30 percent of these cases.
And what this would do would be to
conform the section that deals with fair
hearings under abuse and neglect with all the
other fair hearing section provisions under
the Social Service Law. Nobody is losing any
right, nobody is losing any due process. And
basically, this would establish uniformity.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
President, I would like to know if Senator
Saland would just yield to a couple of
questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you yield for some questions?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
1866
Saland, it's my understanding that the bill
changes the fair hearing request -- in other
words, changes from an automatic notification
of a fair hearing to the need to have a
request specifically made for a fair hearing.
Is that what we're doing here?
SENATOR SALAND: Correct. Which
is consistent with what happens in all of the
other fair hearing applications under the
Social Service Law. It would be treated, as I
said in my earlier remarks, uniformly.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The other
question -- Mr. President, through you, if I
may -- is the bill does not specify which
commissioner we actually would be applying to
for a fair hearing. Is that -
SENATOR SALAND: I think the
commissioner, by definition, would be the
Commissioner of OCFS, the Office of Children
and Family Services, which now is the entity
which oversees or has oversight authority over
abuse and neglect matters.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
Just briefly, on the bill.
Thank you, Senator Saland.
1867
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery, on the bill.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. I did
vote no on this.
And one of the reasons why I did
was because my concern is with the fact that
once a -- once a charge is made regarding
child abuse for any citizen, it's very often
that people find themselves being accused of
this without due notification, that they
really don't realize that they have had such a
charge made against them.
And so I would just prefer that the
commissioner have an additional obligation to
notify any individual of such a charge, as
well as their right to a fair hearing.
So that was my reason. And Senator
Saland may clarify that for me.
SENATOR SALAND: Just on the
bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, on the bill.
SENATOR SALAND: There is nothing
in this that changes the requirement that
currently exists upon the commissioner to
1868
notify the subject under the existing law, and
we're not changing that.
At any time subsequent to the
completion of the investigation, but in no
event later than 90 days after the subject of
a report is notified that the report is
indicated, meaning that there has been a
finding of neglect or abuse, the subject may
request the commissioner to amend the record
of a report.
There's nothing in here that
changes the obligation to notify. And
obviously, if you're the subject of a report,
you would be aware of the pendency of this
proceeding.
Again, there is no -- not the
slightest desire to, from this sponsor, nor
under this legislation, to compromise the due
process rights of somebody who's the subject
of a petition.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
1869
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President. I would like to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar 232, with unanimous
consent.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 232.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will continue to read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
478, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6584, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
the terms of members.
SENATOR HEVESI: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
1870
Kuhl, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 478 by Senator Hevesi.
SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
President. Thank you.
This is a rather simple-purposed
bill. You may all remember that just about
two weeks ago, we had an election of the
Regents of the State of New York. And we had
an election for seven of them; six of them
naturally occurring, and there was a vacancy
on the seventh one as a result of then-Regent
Levy resigning and taking a new position as
the Chancellor of the New York City School
System.
When you take into effect and
account that -- I don't know whether anybody's
interested, or whether Senator Hevesi can hear
us -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, a few moments ago Senator Paterson said
he was hearing voices, and now I hear them.
And can we have some order in the
chamber. May we have some attention to the
debate, please.
Could we have some order in the
1871
chamber, please.
Senator Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: And to continue,
Mr. President, very simply, what this bill
would do is to stagger the terms of the
Regents so that we would not have the
situation that just occurred, and that being
that there were six new Regents out of 16
having been elected.
It's the thought and the purpose of
this bill to have continuity and to utilize
the experience that's been accumulated by
these Regents over a period of years.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President.
I voted no on this legislation in
committee. And the specific reason that I did
was my concern that we were -- we might be
reducing the term of office of the Regents.
And so I just would like to, if I
may, ask the sponsor, Senator Kuhl, what is
exactly going to change in terms of the length
of term of Regents under this legislation. If
1872
we could have that explanation on record, I
would appreciate that.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, do you yield for a question from Senator
Montgomery?
SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Do you
yield for a question from Senator Montgomery?
SENATOR KUHL: Sure, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
Senator Montgomery, would you state
your question?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
Senator Kuhl, I'm trying to get
some clarification from you, if you will, on
exactly what will happen as it relates to the
length of term of the Regents under your
legislation.
SENATOR KUHL: Over the long
haul, Senator, nothing. The terms stay the
same.
But in the transition, there could
be a shortening of a period -- of the term of
1873
a Regent.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Whose term
would be shortened, Senator Kuhl?
SENATOR KUHL: Well, I don't
think we have picked up on any one individual
at this point.
But just if I could -- I have not
reviewed the numbers or the length of service
to determine what individual would have their
term shortened. But it's based on seniority.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And is
that -- does that mean, then, that some of the
Regents would have a shorter term than others
on a permanent basis, on an ongoing basis?
SENATOR KUHL: No. No. Just on
a temporary transition basis, to allow the
terms to actually be staggered. So that you
don't have any more than four Regents coming
up for reelection or reappointment at one
time.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
So the purpose, as I understand it, then, is
for you -- in order to phase in the -- your
bill, which would not have any more than four
people come before us, four Regents come
1874
before us at any one time, some people -- some
Regents may end up with a four-year term as
opposed to a five-year term, for one time.
But not more than one time.
SENATOR KUHL: That's correct.
But only a one-time basis.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Only one
time.
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
With that explanation, Mr.
President, I withdraw my objection to Senator
Kuhl's bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
498, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7064, an
1875
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
homeowners insurance.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Hold it,
I'm sorry.
Senator Paterson, did you say
something?
SENATOR PATERSON: I asked for an
explanation, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: I'm
sorry, Senator Paterson, I couldn't hear you.
Senator Seward, an explanation has
been requested of Calendar 498 by Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
President.
This bill would extend the
provisions of the New York Property
Underwriting Association, so-called NYPUA, for
another year. It would extend it from
April 30, 2000, to April 30, 2001.
And the bill also would extend the
1876
provisions that have been in place in the law
allowing for multitier programs and other
initiatives that have helped to foster a
vibrant insurance market in some of the
high-risk areas of our state.
And, finally, it would also extend
for another year the provisions requiring
homeowners insurers which plan to materially
reduce their coverage in a certain area to
file a plan with the Insurance Department
showing that the withdrawal will be done in a
manner to minimize the market disruption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
I laid the bill aside for Senator Duane, who I
believe had a question on the bill.
Here he is.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. If the sponsor would yield to a
couple of questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield for some questions?
1877
SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Actually, I think
I'm just going to thank the sponsor for his
explanation, and we can move along.
SENATOR SEWARD: I'll take ten
more questions exactly like that one.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery. No?
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Now, Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank
you.
Mr. President, I would like
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
1878
negative on Calendar 451.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 451.
The Secretary will continue to read
in regular order.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
219, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3514C, an
act to amend the Labor Law and the Urban
Development Corporation Act, in relation to
enacting.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Spano, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 219 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR SPANO: Yes, Mr.
President.
This is a bill that would provide
funding for job training and skills upgrading
initiatives for dislocated utility workers.
The bill calls for the Department of Labor to
recommend minimum standards for apprenticeship
training, and also calls on the Public Service
Commission to determine if it's in the public
1879
interest to provide competitive metering
services.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. If
the sponsor would yield to some questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Spano, do you yield for some questions?
SENATOR SPANO: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I'm wondering where I would find
what kind of training would be required to be
given under this.
SENATOR SPANO: What kind of
training? Oh, on the apprenticeship program?
We currently, through the
Department of Labor, have a number of
apprenticeship programs, whether it be IBEW,
the carpenters, and we have left it up to the
department to establish the criteria for the
apprenticeship training programs.
And under this bill, with -- as
1880
we're facing a utility industry that is moving
more towards a competitive environment, we
want to make sure that we minimize the risk of
workers losing their jobs and being adequately
trained in this new environment.
So the -- it would be up to the
agency to establish the initiative, the
Department of Labor to establish the
initiative. But they would look at the model
that has been established under the previous
criteria for the carpenters and the
electricians.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Spano, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SPANO: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I was hoping the
sponsor could tell me what kind of reporting
requirements this legislation has.
SENATOR SPANO: With respect to
the Public Service Commission mandate, which
1881
we say that we want them to determine if it's
in the best interests -- in the public
interest to provide competitive metering
services, the -- we are requiring that no
later than January 1, 2001, that they would
commence this study relative to the metering
services, to make a decision as to what is in
the public interest.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would respond to
another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Spano, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SPANO: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Spano continues to yield.
SENATOR DUANE: I see the
reporting about metering and meter maintenance
and testing.
However, I don't see the reporting
requirement for the success or the -- of the
job training program, or reporting on how many
people are in it or what the efficiency of the
money is in terms of how it's been used, or
any other kinds of documentation or standards
1882
or anything like that.
Where -- could the sponsor tell me
where in the bill that is?
SENATOR SPANO: Last year we
provided in the budget a $30 million
appropriation for a program called STRAP -
which was an initiative, frankly, of the
Majority Leader of this house. And it's
called -- it stands for Strategic Training
Alliance Program. That $30 million program
would be used to establish these type of
programs across the state of New York.
What we are expecting is that the
Department of Labor, through the process that
they have established in other apprenticeship
programs, will be reporting to us on a
periodic basis. And we will work very closely
with the representatives of the utility
workers to make sure that there are adequate
guidelines written into these recommendations.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
SENATOR SPANO: You're welcome.
SENATOR DUANE: If I may speak on
the bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
1883
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: I mean, I think
it's clear that I am a tremendous supporter of
job training and retraining programs. I think
that that's something that we have to continue
to invest in, and that's one of the most
important things that our state can be doing.
However, I think when we're talking
about millions of dollars and giving breaks to
utility companies and corporations, that best
intentions often don't come true. And that
when we make legislation like Senator Spano's
bill -- which I commend him on the efforts to
provide retraining for workers -- I believe
that we also have a responsibility to make
sure that we get back what we're investing in.
And there's unfortunately nothing
in this legislation that will guarantee that,
except for faith that corporations will do the
right thing. And I just am very, very
skeptical that that's going to happen.
We see time and time again in New
York State and New York City, when we give
economic advantages to corporations, what
happens is the corporations, you know, get
1884
rich and the stockholders may do well, but the
workers are not helped and the economy is not
supported by them.
So without any clear guidelines on
what it is that we expect to receive from the
corporations, I'm going to vote no on this.
And I would encourage my colleagues to do the
same and wait until we actually have a way to
measure the success of the program in the
legislation before we pass it.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
417, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3106A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal
1885
Procedure Law, and the Family Court Act, in
relation to enhanced penalties.
SENATOR VOLKER: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
will be laid aside.
Lay it aside for the day, Senator
Volker; is that correct?
SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
will be laid aside for the day.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
439, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1609, an
act to amend the Correction Law, in relation
to requiring.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
do you observe Senator Skelos in the chamber?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, I
do.
SENATOR PATERSON: Well, he looks
rather robust, ready and resurged today, and
I'm just not going to mess with him.
1886
What I'll do is just state that
there was considerable debate on this bill
last year, and there were eight negative
votes. Six of those Senators are with us
today. They are Senators Duane, Montgomery,
Paterson, Rosado, Santiago, and Smith.
And parenthetically, Mr. President,
I point out that that was Senator Ada Smith.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 439 are
Senators Duane, Paterson, Santiago,
Miss Smith, and Mr. Smith. Ayes, 53. Nays,
5.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
controversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please
1887
recognize Senator Montgomery.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: I will.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery, welcome to the Majority. And
you're recognized.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
I respectfully request to be
recorded in the negative, from the Majority
side, on Calendar 439.
SENATOR SKELOS: No objection.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 439.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The desk
is clean, Senator.
Oh, wait a minute.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Bruno, I offer up the
1888
following Majority committee assignment
changes and ask that they be filed in the
Journal.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
changes are at the desk, and they will be
filed in the Journal.
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate -- following session, there will be
an immediate conference of the Majority in the
Majority Conference Room.
Senator Paterson.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Immediate conference of the Majority in the
Majority Conference Room following session.
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
tomorrow morning at 10:15 a.m. there will be a
conference of the Minority in the Minority
Conference Room, Room three-point-one-four.
SENATOR PATERSON: Meeting of the
Minority Conference, tomorrow morning,
10:15 a.m.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there being no further business to come before
1889
the Senate, I move we adjourn until Thursday,
March 30th, at 11:00 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Thursday, March 30th, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 12:26 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)