Regular Session - May 22, 2000
3535
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 22, 2000
3:03 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
3536
P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: In the
absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a
moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Friday, May 19, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, May 18,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
3537
Messages from the Governor.
Report of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
Amendments are offered on the
following Third Reading Calendar bills:
Sponsored by Senator Hannon, page
number 12, Calendar Number 362, Senate Print
Number 4765;
By Senator Lack, page number 42,
Calendar Number 980, Senate Print Number 7749;
By Senator Maziarz, page number 46,
Calendar Number 1021, Senate Print Number
1505A;
By Senator Marcellino, page number
53, Calendar Number 1105, Senate Print Number
7591;
By Senator Morahan, page number 53,
Calendar Number 1116, Senate Print Number
6036B;
3538
By Senator Alesi, page number 55,
Calendar Number 1131, Senate Print Number
4493A;
By Senator Farley, page number 56,
Calendar Number 1148, Senate Print Number
1165;
And by Senator Nozzolio, page
number 58, Calendar Number 1167, Senate Print
Number 5824.
I now move that these bills retain
their place on the order of Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received, and the bills will
retain their place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Spano, please remove the
sponsor star from Calendar 288.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: So
ordered.
SENATOR ALESI: I wish to call up
my bill, Print Number 6767, recalled from the
Assembly, which is now at the desk. I now
3539
move to reconsider the vote by which the bill
was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Just a
second. Hold on, Senator.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
875, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6767, an
act to amend the Executive Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: I now offer the
following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received.
Senator, are you moving to
reconsider the bill?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll on reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: And the
amendments are received.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3540
on behalf of Senator Seward, there will be an
immediate meeting of the Insurance Committee
in the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Immediate meeting of the Insurance Committee
in the Majority Conference Room.
Senator Skelos, shall we do the
substitutions now?
SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the
substitutions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the substitutions.
THE SECRETARY: On page 10,
Senator Lack moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number
7162A, and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 4686A, Third Reading
Calendar 300.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
substitution is ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could take up the noncontroversial
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
3541
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
80, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4572, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to increasing the penalty.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
237, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 674B, an
act to amend the Social Services Law and the
Family Court Act, in relation to the
definition of a "person in need of
supervision."
SENATOR GENTILE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
3542
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
307, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3243, an
act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Law, in relation to the imposition of driver's
license suspensions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR GENTILE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
383, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6438A,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to eliminating the additional fee.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
3543
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
391, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6009A,
an act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law, in relation to participation.
SENATOR HEVESI: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
736, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7181A -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
754, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1469C, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to unfounded reports.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR GENTILE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
756, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3952, an
3544
act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
to the placement.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect -
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
845, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7012, an
act to amend the Executive Law and the State
Technology Law, in relation to the Office for
Technology.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR COPPOLA: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
852, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6148,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to crime victims.
3545
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
857, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 7076, an
act to amend the State Administrative
Procedure Act, in relation to notice.
SENATOR HEVESI: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
870, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3174, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
requiring.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
April.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll call.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3546
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
873, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4670, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
voting members.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
877, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7413, an
act to amend the State Finance Law, in
relation to the preferred status.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
3547
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
878, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 7469, an
act to amend the Public Officers Law, in
relation to the defense and indemnification.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
895, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3893, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
standards for construction.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
919, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
3548
Assembly Print Number 10801, an act to amend
Chapter 228 of the Laws of 1998 relating to
promotional eligibility.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
936, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 7122,
an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets
Law, in relation to use and repair.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
3549
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
952, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7480, an
act to amend Chapter 626 of the Laws of 1996
amending the Local Finance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
954, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7794, an
act to amend the Town Law and the Public
Officers Law, in relation to the residency of
persons.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR GENTILE: Lay it aside,
please.
3550
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
959, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 7078, an
act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering
and Breeding Law, in relation to occupational
licenses.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
964, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3400A, an
act to amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts
Law and the General Obligations Law, in
relation to renunciations.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
3551
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect September 1.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1004, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6074, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
establishing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1023, by Senator Lachman, Senate Print 2966B,
3552
an act to amend the Railroad Law, the Public
Authorities Law, and the State Finance Law, in
relation to providing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1024, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5434A,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to the appointment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3553
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1034, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5682, an
act authorizing the conveyance of land by the
South Glens Falls Central School District.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1035, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7441A,
an act in relation to the apportionment of
state building aid.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3554
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1044, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6261A, an
act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation
to requiring.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1045, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6497A,
an act to amend the Navigation Law, in
3555
relation to the termination of the unsafe
operation of a vessel.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1046, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
7142, an act to amend the Navigation Law, in
relation to vessel equipment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
April.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
3556
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1047, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
7143, an act to amend the Navigation Law, in
relation to service charges and fees.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1052, by Member of the Assembly Tonko,
Assembly Print Number 10035, an act to amend
the Parks, Recreation and Historic
Preservation Law, in relation to the
appointments.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
3557
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1177, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 6695, an
act to amend the Local Finance Law, in
relation to authorizing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3558
if we could take up the controversial
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
237, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 674B, an
act to amend the Social Services Law and the
Family Court Act, in relation to the
definition.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 237 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR RATH: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
The amendment is merely a
correction of a technicality that we missed
when we passed this two weeks ago, in order to
conform it to Section 371 of the Social
Services Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
3559
President. Would the sponsor yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I'm wondering how it is that we
will be paying for this increase in the age
limit for PINS.
SENATOR RATH: Okay, I believe we
probably spoke about that two weeks ago.
But to revisit, let me say that
it's a firm belief that, number one, the
number of young people who need aid as PINS or
need to be put in a PINS position will be
decreased severely -- I shouldn't say
severely, let me use another word -
dramatically. Because it's really felt that a
lot of young people can use the direction and
the opportunity to be in their homes between
ages 16 and 18, and a lot of growing up goes
on during those particular years.
And we are looking right now at a
survey of the information as it starts to come
3560
in -- and I know we spoke two weeks ago about
unfunded mandates onto the counties. And it
is no intent of anyone to see that there will
be unfunded mandates. We're hopeful that the
diversionary process and the reduction of
people involved will cover some of the -- what
might be costs, additional costs.
And we are expecting also to
identify clearly what those additional costs
might be. Because we know Family Courts are
already talking to us about what those might
be. And we're looking for some additional
dollars if they're necessary quickly. But
when next year's budget comes up, we'll be
taking that into serious consideration,
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm still not
3561
sure if -- and I assume -- I can't imagine
that there wouldn't be an increase in costs,
just because the number of young people up to
the age of 16 will probably remain somewhat
constant and there will be more people between
the ages of 16 and 18. Otherwise, we wouldn't
even be voting on this bill.
So I'm wondering whether or not the
counties will pay for this or whether the
state will reimburse.
SENATOR RATH: At this point -
at this point, there is no method for the
inclusion of dollars for the counties. But as
we spoke of two weeks ago, there is a study
and there is money in the budget for the study
that will show us what those costs might be.
And we're also looking for some
dollars to cover some costs. Now, I can't
tell you what that is right now. But it
looked like there was some money in the budget
that might cover some of these costs.
And we're very cognizant of the
concerns that the counties have. My
chairmanship being Local Government, I talk to
these folks all the time. And we are
3562
cognizant that they're concerned.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Could the sponsor
be more specific about where these state funds
are coming from that she's identified?
SENATOR RATH: I cannot be more
specific at this time. I just learned about
it today, that there may be some monies in the
budget that could be diverted in that
direction. And we're looking into it.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
3563
SENATOR DUANE: When the sponsor
finds the source of these unidentified funds,
if she could notify me as soon as possible.
SENATOR RATH: Sure. I'll be
very glad to, Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: And through you,
Mr. President. If that funding doesn't come
through, then is it the expectation that the
counties will pay for this?
SENATOR RATH: Senator Duane, you
are touching a very respondent chord in me,
because I have a lot of concern about who pays
for what, whether it's the counties or whether
it's the state, on a lot of fronts that we
deal with. And this is just another one of
them.
I mean, we have -- we have many.
We argued it the night on the floor on the
HCRA issue. We talk about it in relation to
the prisoners. We talk about it in relation
to a lot of items.
And yes, I'm extremely aware of
this. And as I said, you're touching a very
respondent chord.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
3564
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I believe that
when we last discussed this legislation that
the budget had not yet been passed. Or is -
am I -
SENATOR RATH: No, if it was, it
was just about at the same time. I think this
happened after the budget passed, Senator. I
think it was after.
In fact, I know it was after,
because we -- because I was able to say to you
that day that the money is there for the
study. Because that was what had been at
loggerheads, because which came first, getting
the study done or getting the legislation
done.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President. I believe that the last time we
debated this bill was April 18th. And while I
3565
think that the committees had met, I don't
think that we had yet passed the budget.
SENATOR RATH: Well, you know,
you could be right, that the committees -- and
I had heard or knew that this was going to
come forward out of the conference committee
and there was no reason to believe that it was
going to change.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, would the sponsor continue to
yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm wondering if
the sponsor would consider starring this bill
until we had a little more clarity on where it
was that the money would come from to pay for
it, whether or not we would expect the
counties to pay for it or whether there is a
funding stream from the state.
SENATOR RATH: Mr. Chairman,
through you -- I guess I'm taking a page from
3566
Senator Duane's book. The -- no, I will not
star the bill.
I don't want there to be any
expectation that whatever costs there are are
going to be picked up. What I'm looking at is
trying to see if there is a place where there
are some dollars that might provide some
relief if there is a serious cost somewhere.
Right now, again, I don't want any
expectations to go up. This is what -- this
was what was holding the bill up in many
regards for 25 years, was because people were
saying you've got to provide for the costs of
this thing. Now the Assembly has seen the
wisdom of moving forward with this in order to
save these young children -- young people.
They're not really children, maybe, between
ages 16 and 18. Maybe they are, I'm not sure.
But we need to get this tool in the
hands of the law enforcement agencies and
there for the protection of parents who are
attempting to keep their children in their
homes between ages 16 and 18.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
3567
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR RATH: Surely.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: If, as I believe
most of us here believe, that it is important
to increase the PINS age to 18 -- and I think
that there's pretty much unanimous agreement
that that is what we should be doing, the
responsible, the just thing to be doing -- if
it is that important, should we not then also
provide for the funding in this legislation or
at the very least make it clear that under no
circumstances will this be an unfunded mandate
to the counties?
SENATOR RATH: Senator Duane, the
thing that held this up for between 20 and 25
years was the fact that no one could come to
any kind of a conclusion as to what it might
cost.
There was a bill in the other house
that was looking for -- I believe it was $50
million. And this house felt that that was
3568
way beyond anything that it might possibly
cost, and that there might be a proliferation
of services spring up to cover what was
anticipated that never would be.
And so the conclusion of it has
been that we're going to go forward. The
implementation date of this is when? Let me
just take a quick look. Because we may not
be -- there may not be an awful lot of time.
It seems to me that there's a rather short
time frame on this.
November 1st implementation date.
So that gives us two months of experience
before we actually get to a point where we
would now be into the counties' next fiscal
year.
And the study that's going to go
forward will start immediately. And I would
tell you, Senator Duane, I had a -- what I
would call a quick review done in one of my
counties upstate two years ago as we were
working forward to this point. And the
information that came back to me
demographically as to how many young people
might be expected to go into the program in
3569
relation to the experience they had had with
those that were in the program, in relation to
how many there were in the county, and the
kinds of services that they needed -- because
they were pounding on me because of the
serious concern of what the costs would be.
And they came back to me and said,
It's really not going to be anywhere near what
we thought it was going to be in terms of
cost. And so, again, it was a quick study. I
don't want to go into detail on it. But I
just do need to tell you I was assured through
just that much that it wasn't going to cost a
whole lot of money.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, on
the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I totally support increasing the
age of PINS to 18 so that those who are
requiring supervision as well as those who may
require supervision from 16 years of age on
get the supervision that they need.
3570
That said, if this battle has been
going on for years and years and years, I
don't understand why we haven't looked at what
the costs of this program would be. The issue
is not whether this costs $1 or $50 million,
the issue is who is going to pay for that.
We've set up a system here where we
will now be requiring counties to accept young
people into the PINS program, and yet we have
not set up a system for them to be reimbursed.
And so we have in fact made it possible that
this will be an unfunded mandate to the
counties.
Now, if we have the guts to
increase the age to 18, we should also have
the guts to put into place a funding stream at
the same time, through some kind of state
funding mechanism, so that it doesn't make it
so that a county would have to do it.
Now, it's possible, I guess, that a
county might be able to opt out of this. And
yet again, that's made it possible for these
young people in need of supervision to not get
the supervision they need, depending on what
county it is that they're living in.
3571
So all around, I believe that while
I'm going to vote for this, I would prefer to
vote for it with the proviso that the state
would reimburse the counties. I think that's
the responsible thing to do. We should put
our money where our mouths are and back up
what our philosophy is with the dollars to
actually make it happen.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, if
I might, the miracles of our electronic world
have once again come to our rescue. And a
staff member who knew more than I do,
certainly, about where this money is in the
budget has called to advise that the family
assistance budget has $23 million for family
preservation and foster care diversion.
And that is where we are looking,
Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: On the bill,
Mr. President.
3572
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan, on the bill.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Senator Rath
just brought up a point that I was going to
add to the debate.
But I want to point out quickly
that one of the major hopes behind this bill,
it's really a parents' bill. We're not
looking for the children to get into the
supervision. We're not asking the counties or
necessarily envisioning that the counties are
now going to be overburdened with the cost.
What we're looking for here is to
give back parental control to parents of the
young boys under 18. And I think that's
really a key element of the bill that so often
gets overlooked.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
3573
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
You know, I'm glad that there's
some funding, the 23 million. I don't
specifically remember that item in the budget.
And I can't say with absolute knowledge that
that money is also not spoken for in other
ways.
But that said, that can't possibly
cover the cost, for instance, of all the
elements of the PINS program for the
16-to-18-year-olds, like probation and home
study and all of the other elements that go
along with it.
So again, while that's a nice small
start, I'm still unclear that that money is
actually dedicated towards this for the
16-to-18-year-old increase in age. But also
it's inconceivable to me that that would be
anywhere near enough money for the full range
of programming that's needed for PINS.
So again, I'm going to vote for it
3574
because I'm so much in favor of
16-to-18-year-olds being covered by PINS, but
with real trepidation that we're going to end
up dumping the cost of this into the laps of
the counties in the form of an unfunded
mandate. And that's just -- I mean, if we're
going to do mandates, we ought to be funding
them.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the affirmative.
The Secretary will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
307, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3243, an
act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Law, in relation to the imposition.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 307 by Senator Duane.
3575
SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill is a very simple bill to
understand. It provides another mechanism for
enforcement when people who are violators of
the Vehicle and Traffic Law don't comply with
the fines that are imposed by local justices.
It allows for a suspension of their license
pending their payments.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. If
the sponsor would yield, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: As I understand
it, this deals with the intent to consume by
persons under 21 years of age.
SENATOR KUHL: I believe that's
correct.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
3576
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: If suspending the
license of someone under 21 years of age is a
good idea, why isn't it a good idea to suspend
the license of a person who breaks this law no
matter how old they are?
SENATOR KUHL: Perhaps you can
answer that better, Senator, than I can.
I'm only concentrating, Senator, on
this particular proposal. It came to my
attention by several of my local justices of
the peace that when we had young people who
were violating the ABC laws, that in fact they
were not paying the fines. They were just
kind of, if you will, flaunting in the face of
the local justices this violation.
So they felt that this was an
adequate means of enforcement. And I happen
to believe that they're correct.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
3577
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR KUHL: I'll yield for
another question, yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields for one question.
SENATOR DUANE: What about a
45-year-old person who fails to pay their
fine? Should they not also be subject -- why
are we being harsher with people under 21 than
we are for people who are over 21? It seems
to me the law is the law and everybody should
obey it the same way.
SENATOR KUHL: Well, Senator, if
you would refer to the law that we're talking
about, we're talking about underage
consumption. Last I knew the age of
consumption, this age was 21, not somebody 45.
They're perfectly legal to consume alcoholic
beverages.
So this law, this proposed law,
deals with a very specific purpose and only
that purpose now. So I think you probably can
3578
answer your own question if you just review
the material that's in the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: On the bill, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: As someone who
actually has read the bill, this is talking
about people who don't pay their fine. This
is not about who it is and who isn't who has
open containers, it's about people who are not
paying their fine.
So since the bill is about people
who are not paying their fine, then the law
should treat everyone equally, I believe, and
we shouldn't just single out people who are
under the age of 21. The law is the law in
terms of paying fines, whether you're 45 or
you're 19.
I think that the right thing to do
in this state is to treat all people equally
when they break the same law. So I would
encourage my colleagues to vote no and to not
be discriminating or treating more harshly
people under the age of 21. I don't think
3579
that a 19-year-old should be treated more
harshly for breaking the same law that I
break.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
391, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6009A,
an act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law, in relation to the participation
by the Henry Viscardi School.
SENATOR HEVESI: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 391 by Senator Hevesi.
3580
SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill would allow the Viscardi
School, located in Roslyn, New York, which
basically serves as a school for children who
are predominantly in wheelchairs, to provide
them with the ability to join the retirement
system at the election of the employer, as do
the other eleven 4201 schools for the deaf and
the blind.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
would the sponsor yield to one question,
please?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: The memo in
support of this legislation says the
following: Employees of all of the other 4201
schools in New York State are eligible to
participate.
3581
My question is, why is this one
school exempted if they have received the
classification of being a 4201 school?
SENATOR BALBONI: The legislation
was written for the 4201s prior to Henry
Viscardi being designated as a 4201 school.
And therefore, when it was written, they were
not included in it.
It's clearly meant that it's
supposed to encompass all of them. They
just -- they thought they could do this
without legislation. We've got gotten an
opinion from the Comptroller's office that
they cannot.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
through you, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, do you yield for another question?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: So the original
legislation was flawed, and as a result we
have this situation now and there's nothing
3582
that should prevent this school -
SENATOR BALBONI: Actually, the
original legislation referred to schools that
had deaf, dumb and blind children. And
obviously, as you know, that that's no longer
an appellation we choose to use in this state.
And so what this evidences is a
broadening, ever so slightly, of the school to
include individuals who are in wheelchairs.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: I'd like to
thank Senator Hevesi for his questions.
And let me just, in closing, state
the following. I've had many wonderful
opportunities in this job representing the
people of my district, but none so gratifying
as actually going to the Henry Viscardi
School.
I would invite anyone in this
chamber to do this. These students are
miracles in their own right. They are
3583
wonderful, wonderful students. The education
provided is tops in the nation. And it is
really one of the gems of New York State.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
754, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1469C, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to unfounded reports.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Lay it aside
for the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
756, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3952, an
act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
3584
to the placement of children.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 756 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Mr. President, what this bill would
do would be to permit a court where a child,
pursuant to a foster-care placement, had been
placed with a relative or other suitable
person, to permit the court within its
discretion to extend the continuation of that
foster-care placement and do so not under the
current constricts of the law, which basically
say there shall be a one-year extension, but
to permit the court to provide for an extended
placement, thereby obviating the need for the
family member or relative to continuously come
back to Family Court.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. Would the sponsor yield, please?
3585
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I'm wondering whether or not the
sponsor could foresee a situation in which a
Family Court gave a child to a grandparent or
another relative for over a year and, say, the
mother was in treatment -- alcohol or drug
treatment, say, or whatever -- and then the
mother can't get the child back after a year
because the other relative doesn't want to
give them up.
SENATOR SALAND: First, let me
make a slight, if I may, correction in my
opening remarks. I referred to this as foster
care. This obviously is not a situation
involving foster care, because the placement
has been done with a relative.
In response to your question,
Senator Duane, the court in its discretion, at
that time and place when it would have
3586
extended that placement, I'm sure would have
considered whatever the mother -- if the
mother was the parent who had released the
child into the custody of the relative,
whatever her status was at that particular
time.
If events were to change and for
some reason or other that mother now believed
that she was more appropriately the person
with whom that placement and, in effect,
custody should reside, she would have the
ability to make application to the court where
the order was entered, the Family Court.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Is it possible -
I've been de-miked. Is it possible that a
one-year -- that -- I have a loud voice, but I
3587
don't want anyone to strain.
Is it possible that having the
one-year limitation might make it mandatory
for the Family Court to reevaluate the
situation, as opposed to letting more than a
year go by? I'm just wondering whether or not
it's a good idea to keep the year limitation,
because it forces the court to perform
oversight at least once a year.
SENATOR SALAND: I would think
this would be a desirable end to seek,
inasmuch as these placements with relatives
are not technically the foster-care placements
in which we know there are certain
reimbursements or funding provided to the
family or person with whom the child is
placed.
There really is -- we're not
talking about financial remuneration here.
And to chase people back and forth into Family
Court where a court does not believe that
there's anything adverse to the interests of
the child and chooses to extend the placement
for a greater period of time, generally
because of the relationship of the child to
3588
the person with whom he or she has been
placed -- i.e., a relative -- I would think
that that certainly is effective, efficient,
and recognizing of the desire not to impose
upon these relatives by bringing them back and
forth.
Again, keeping in mind, as I
responded to your initial question, if the
mother in the example you gave wishes to
dispute this, there's nothing to prevent her
from coming back to Family Court and
requesting a hearing.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
How is this bill consistent with
the Adoption and Safe Families Act?
SENATOR SALAND: The second part
3589
of the bill, or the second portion of the bill
containing new language, is consistent with
the language in ASFA.
And there are references in several
places in the ASFA bill which we did last
year -- I have a copy of the bill in front of
me, and I'm looking, for example, to page 25.
And it makes reference again to the same
60-day period that you see referred to between
lines 12 and 17 in the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. And
if the sponsor would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Does that mean
that the time frames in the Adoption and Safe
Families Act would automatically be in effect?
Or what are -- if we're removing the year
limitation, what will supersede -- what time
limitation will there be, or will there be any
time limitations?
3590
SENATOR SALAND: You will have
the same 15-to-22-month time period that you
have in ASFA.
SENATOR DUANE: And I think I
have one final question -- which I've totally
lost. Thank you. Thank you.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
845, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7012, an
act to amend the Executive Law and the State
Technology Law, in relation to the Office for
Technology.
SENATOR COPPOLA: I withdraw my
request.
3591
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
Senator Paterson, did you request
an explanation?
SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
we don't need an explanation on that bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the same date as
Section 2 of Chapter 4 of the Laws of 1999.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
852, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6148,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to crime victims.
3592
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 852 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This measure is to expand the
current Son of Sam Law to include the profits
from non-sanctioned inmate ventures as those
which may be subjected to civil suits brought
by crime victims.
Under the current Son of Sam Law,
only those profits from the crime -- that is,
profit made by criminals as the direct result
of their crime -- will be subjected to Son of
Sam Law protections.
SENATOR DUANE: Would the sponsor
yield to a question, please?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
3593
SENATOR DUANE: Doesn't DOCS
doesn't already stop this now? Why do we need
the legislation?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Profits made
by criminals directly and indirectly may or
may not be stopped by DOCS, Mr. President.
That we found artwork that Arthur
Shawcross was actually trading and venturing
over the Internet through different brokers.
And it just happened by accident that we were
able to find this type of business activity.
It's difficult for DOCS to carry
and find everything. And that certainly we
say that DOCS is doing a good job in
restricting, in most cases, businesses by
inmates in prison. It's not foolproof. And
that we certainly want to ensure that all is
done to prevent the profit from this type of
unsanctioned behavior from going to anyone
else but the crime victim.
That's one thing that is not in the
statute or not in the policy now, Senator,
that the activity may or may not be caught in
time. But the fact of the matter is profits
could occur. And if they do, we want to make
3594
sure that the crime victim is the recipient of
those profits.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: If we lay aside
that there's really nothing in this bill which
makes it any easier or harder for DOCS to
catch people making profits, except that a law
is passed -- although I doubt that a memo will
go out to the 70,000 people in jail that
they're liable under this law. I believe
that, like I, they've all heard what happened
Arthur Shawcross when it was discovered that
he was selling his paintings.
I was wondering if the sponsor was
familiar with what happened to Arthur
Shawcross.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
3595
I am extremely knowledgeable about what
happened to the victims of Arthur Shawcross,
that they all died. He was a serial killer.
He certainly, in engaging his crimes, would
have been subjected to the death penalty had
the death penalty been in fact in law during
the 1980s when he committed his crimes.
What we want to do with this
measure is to ensure that the spirit of the
Son of Sam Law is extended through all
criminal -- all ventures by criminals and that
no criminal be able to profit from the
notoriety of their crime.
Now, Arthur Shawcross's paintings
may not have been the direct result of his
criminality, and that he -- to be able to
market those paintings, certainly it was the
indirect result of his criminality. That in
effect because of his crime being so
sensational, he found a market, albeit a -
you hate to think of who would be purchasing
that type of artwork. But nonetheless, people
are buying that artwork because of the
sensational nature of the artist.
And what we're saying here is
3596
certainly the victims of those criminals
should be remembered first, rather than the
profit motive because of the notorious crime
occurring.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Just to refresh
everybody's memory of what my question was, my
question was what happened to Arthur
Shawcross. I think everybody, including
myself, in the State of New York knows what
happened to the victims of Arthur Shawcross.
That was not my question.
My question was whether the sponsor
knew what happened to Arthur Shawcross after
it was discovered that he was selling these
paintings. Although I will give a hint to
everybody. Actually, he wasn't selling his
3597
paintings. He did send paintings to dealers
who sent him clothes and things like that.
The dealers did sell paintings.
There's no evidence that he made
any money, although he did get, it is true,
material objects like shoes and clothes and
probably food -- and not cash -- by the sale
of the paintings by the dealers.
But I'm just wondering whether the
sponsor -- if I could just ask the question
again that didn't get answered, if he knows
what actually happened to Arthur Shawcross
when it was discovered that he had sent
paintings to dealers.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President, I'd be glad to answer Senator
Duane's question.
I am reading from a news release
from the Department of Correctional Services
dated September 17, 1999, that indicates
Arthur Shawcross had his arts and crafts
privileges suspended on September 10th, one
day after the department learned that eBay was
conducting public auctions on a variety of
Arthur Shawcross's artwork.
3598
An investigation determined that
Arthur Shawcross should be sent and confined
to special housing, and he received, because
of those violations, a sentence to two years
of special housing.
It should be also underscored that
Mr. Shawcross, who was age 54 at the time of
this release, is serving a term of 250 years
to life for his crimes.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Does the sponsor
believe that two years in an SHU, probably
double-bunked, and five years without any art
privileges, does he believe that that's a
fitting punishment for what Arthur Shawcross
did in addition to his several lifetimes'
worth of time to which he had already been
3599
sentenced?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
through you. I'm not a judge, I'm not a
disciplinarian within DOCS. But frankly, I
think anything done to Arthur Shawcross would
be pale in comparison to what he has done to
victims that he has murdered, or to the State
of New York, which has been the unfortunate
total victim of his criminality.
Removing his art privileges I think
are de minimis in terms of the havoc that he
has wreaked on the State of New York.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
Mr. President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Again, I don't
believe this legislation is necessary if we
just look at the punishment that Arthur
Shawcross got for his having sent artwork to
dealers or whoever, weirdos out there, in
exchange for clothes and shoes and maybe candy
bars. And so he didn't really profit except
for being able to walk around the institution
more comfortably.
3600
And being punished by two years at
an SHU, when I would submit that one day in an
SHU is cruel and unusual punishment, and not
being able to paint for five years, even
though clearly painting is something which has
a rehabilitative value for Mr. Shawcross, that
we don't need this legislation.
In fact, there's plenty of
punishment to go around for people who are
already incarcerated. And particularly for
someone who is incarcerated, as I say, for
several lifetimes' worth of years, to then
additionally punish such a person by putting
them in an SHU and by not letting them have
this form of recreation I think is cruel and
unusual punishment.
I don't think we need to enshrine
this kind of inhumanity in legislation. So
I'll be voting no.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
3601
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
857, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 7076, an
act to amend the State Administrative
Procedure Act, in relation to notice.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Stachowski.
SENATOR ALESI: This bill would
exclude cable television companies from the
State Administrative Procedures Act, much the
same way as some utilities and some
telecommunications companies are already
excluded.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the
sponsor yield for a question or two?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3602
Alesi, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes, Mr.
President.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Through you,
Mr. President.
Senator, there's a concern here
that in the case of cable television companies
and their local negotiation with the local
municipality, oftentimes, in setting up their
system, that if we have a change in companies
and there's no public hearings and those
things are eliminated, would this leave those
municipalities and therefore the people that
live there at a disadvantage in the change
because we're eliminating this public forum?
SENATOR ALESI: Through you, Mr.
President. No.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Can -- Mr.
President, if -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: -- he would
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, do you continue to yield?
3603
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I appreciate
the brevity of your answer, but I would ask if
you could just give me a few reasons why
that's the case, why it would not leave the
local municipalities and the people that live
there at a disadvantage if we don't have these
public hearings.
SENATOR ALESI: In response to
the question, the municipalities, in granting
the operating franchise agreement, can at any
time with somebody new make amendments. And
in the course of making those amendments, the
public good would be served.
But to enlarge on the underlying
purpose of this bill, by requiring cable
companies to fall under the State
Administrative Procedures Act when telephone
companies and utility companies are not
required to, we're forcing them into a
duplicative set of circumstances as far as the
authorization to operate.
And in this very fast-changing day
3604
of cable television, requiring
telecommunications capabilities and Internet
capabilities, there are incumbent phone
companies and utility companies that already
have the ability to do that. And by forcing
the cable companies into the duplicative
process, it renders them to be a weak
competitor.
And so this bill, by removing that,
would allow them to be a stronger competitor,
and the competition that would result would
serve the public good.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr.
President, if the sponsor would yield to one
last question, I think I can clarify -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, do you yield?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: -- I think I
can clarify pretty much what I wanted to ask.
And I'm sorry I was a little bit unclear.
Mr. President, through you.
Senator, would you say then that when the
purchase is made, the old contract still
stands through its termination or through its
3605
expiration time, the contract that is already
in place with the cable company that's being
bought and that municipality, that contract
still stays whole?
Because basically that's my
question. If the contract is still in effect,
then we don't have a problem with this bill at
all.
SENATOR ALESI: Through you, Mr.
President. The contract would most likely
stay in place because they're buying the
assets, and the contract would be deemed an
asset. And because they'd be buying that
asset, it wouldn't be changed. And
therefore -- and if it were, then, they would
have to go back through the application
process at the municipal level.
And under this bill, as long as
they have that process available at the
municipal level, it's not needed at the state
level.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3606
Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
would the sponsor yield for a question or two?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, do you yield?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you.
Senator, if I can get a little bit
specific with you, to your knowledge does the
City of New York require in its municipal
franchise agreements that a public review and
approval process go into effect should a cable
company decide that they want to transfer
control?
SENATOR ALESI: It's my
understanding, through you, Mr. President,
that all municipalities do.
And again, under the circumstances
of that being the case, then the State
Administrative Procedures Act would be
redundant.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
3607
through you, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, do you yield?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Senator, I'm
just a little bit confused. Your memo in
support suggests that most municipalities
require that prior approval. You're
suggesting now that all of them do?
SENATOR ALESI: New York City
would be considered under the term "most
municipalities" in this instance.
SENATOR HEVESI: On the bill, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi, on the bill.
SENATOR HEVESI: If New York City
is covered under this agreement or has their
own regulations that would require this type
of review, then I'm much more comfortable with
this. If "most" is all, I'm also comfortable
with it.
3608
But if "most" is most, then that
leaves me with some trepidation here, because
there may be municipalities that decided not
to implement their own agreements to ensure
that there's a public review process pursuant
to transfer of control, because they knew that
the state had a system in place that would
protect against circumstances by which this
type of transfer would not be beneficial to
the municipality.
If I was drafting this legislation,
I would probably suggest that this -- we could
go ahead and do this to foster competition and
expedite the process, but I would have
included a provision that suggested if any
municipality in New York State did not provide
for such a review process, then the original
review process that is current law would go
into effect.
Not enough to make me vote against
this legislation, since New York City,
according to the sponsor, does stipulate in
their franchise agreements that there will be
a review process. But it's something that I
think would make this a better piece of
3609
legislation.
But I intend to vote in the
affirmative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the same date as
Section 2 of Chapter 416 of the Laws of 1998.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
873, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4670, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
voting members.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Padavan, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 873 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR PADAVAN: As the bill
3610
indicates very directly, this allows the
superintendent of the State Police to
authorize one of his representatives to
replace him or to represent him at a meeting
of the Law Enforcement Agency Accreditation
Council.
Similarly, the police commissioner
of the City of New York can designate a
surrogate who is a member of the department
who has achieved the rank of captain or above.
SENATOR DUANE: Would the sponsor
yield for a question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Padavan, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
What is the Law Enforcement
Accreditation Council?
SENATOR PADAVAN: As you know, we
have accreditors that go around and
accreditate hospitals to determine that
they're meeting certain specified standards of
3611
performance, procedure, and so on.
Well, that's what this council does
with police departments. As you know, there
are many small police departments around the
state. And they serve that function.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Padavan, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: How many members
are there of the council?
SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't recall,
Senator.
SENATOR DUANE: I don't want
to -- it's not a big deal, but I mean like 10
or like 50 or like 3 or -
SENATOR PADAVAN: Somewhere
between 3 and 50.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR DUANE: Very helpful.
All right, thank you.
3612
SENATOR PADAVAN: You're welcome.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
878, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 7469, an
act to amend the Public Officers Law, in
relation to the defense and indemnification.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Goodman, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 878 by Senator Duane.
SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator Duane,
it's always a pleasure to respond to your
repeated questions of my legislative program.
I thank you for your interest and curiosity.
3613
This bill does the following. Its
purpose is to afford defense and
indemnification protection for the employees
of the Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller Empire
State Plaza Performing Arts Center, fondly
known as the Egg.
The existing law provides
substantive and procedural conditions for the
defense and indemnification of state officers
and employees. Public Officers Law Section 19
relates to reimbursement of defense costs
incurred by and on behalf of state employees.
The Egg was created as a body
corporate and politic pursuant to Chapter 688
of the Laws of 1979. Under this chapter,
employees of the corporation were designated
as employees of the State of New York until
1992, when Chapter 436 abolished the
designation.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR GOODMAN: Excuse me, I'm
not quite finished. I was just -- the noise
3614
was quite pervasive, so I thought by listening
to it I might quiet it.
The bill of the corporation would
restore a privilege and benefit the employees
enjoyed for the first 12 years that the
corporation existed. In 1992, removal of
defense and indemnity protection was incident
to salaried-employee benefit considerations
and not as a calculated undertaking.
I understand you have a question,
sir, as to whether private insurance would
cover this. The answer is it could be
obtained, but at a considerable cost to the
state. The legislation which we pass would
obviate the need for such an expenditure.
Although the corporation has the
ability to -- without the defense and
indemnity protection, it's increasingly
difficult for the corporation to attract new
directors.
And that, I think, gives you the
substance of the essence of the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. Would the sponsor yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3615
Goodman, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will,
Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. Isn't
probably the best solution to this to just
have the state take the Empire State Plaza
Performing Arts Center over again? If we're
going to -
SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, that's
not considered an appropriate solution. This
is a matter that has a considerable history.
It is an arts institution that -- it's being
carried on its own bottom for a group of
organizational reasons that relate to its
performance and its mission.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, I'm still -- if we're going to pay
the freight for the insurance -- I mean, the
cost for the insurance is the same whether
it's under the present system and they have to
pay it themselves or whether the state pays
it.
So I don't think there's any cost
3616
difference except for the state is going to
pay one way or the other. So why wouldn't it
be just as well if the state took it back
over?
SENATOR GOODMAN: There's no cost
to the state unless some action is brought
against the individuals in the Egg. And if
it's brought, then the defense will be taken
up by the state in an appropriate fashion. As
you may know, the Attorney General defends
state employees against such problems.
No cost factor involved, barring
any investment of time. But this is fixed
overhead in any event.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President. Could the sponsor tell me if
there's been a lot of lawsuits lodged against
the officers of the arts center?
SENATOR GOODMAN: No, there have
not.
SENATOR DUANE: Does the sponsor
anticipate that there would be lawsuits if
there haven't been any up to now since 1992, I
guess?
SENATOR GOODMAN: It's only with
3617
the greatest reluctance that we would crack
such an exquisite Egg.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR DUANE: No one loves
comedies and the theater more than I do. But
seriously, I'm wondering why it is that we are
indemnifying people who probably will never
have lawsuits lodged against them.
SENATOR GOODMAN: I think I
explained that there's a reluctance on the
part of people to come in and become directors
of an organization of this sort because of the
possibility of what in corporate terms are
known as strike suits. I think you're
familiar with that term. Nuisance suits and
the like.
SENATOR DUANE: And just to
reiterate, this was -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, do you wish the sponsor to continue to
yield?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Goodman, do you yield for another question?
SENATOR GOODMAN: I do.
3618
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: So this was a
flaw of the original legislation which made
the arts center a quasi rather than a
government facility?
SENATOR GOODMAN: No, it wasn't a
flaw. Because as I stated earlier in my
explanation, this previously did exist but at
the time that there was an alteration in the
status of this, it was inadvertently dropped.
This repairs an inadvertence.
SENATOR DUANE: And post 1992 -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, do you wish the sponsor to continue to
yield?
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Goodman, do you yield?
SENATOR GOODMAN: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DUANE: And prior to
1992, the center had difficulty having people
serve on its board?
3619
SENATOR GOODMAN: That's what
we're advised, yes. Because of this problem.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
954, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7794, an
act to amend the Town Law and the Public
Officers Law, in relation to the residency.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
3620
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Morahan, that concludes the
reading of the controversial calendar.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, Mr.
President. Is there any housekeeping at the
desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, I
believe we have a motion.
Senator Marcellino.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
On behalf of Senator Padavan, on
page number 35 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 897, Senate
Print Number 6507, and ask that said bill
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received, and the bill will
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
3621
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. There being no further business to
come before the Senate, I move we adjourn
until Tuesday, May 23rd, at 3:00 p.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, May 23rd, at 3:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:15 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)