Regular Session - May 22, 2000

                                                              3535



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               May 22, 2000

                                 3:03 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          3536



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senate will come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    In the

                 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a

                 moment of silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading

                 of the Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Friday, May 19, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Thursday, May 18,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.





                                                          3537



                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Report of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Amendments are offered on the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:

                            Sponsored by Senator Hannon, page

                 number 12, Calendar Number 362, Senate Print

                 Number 4765;

                            By Senator Lack, page number 42,

                 Calendar Number 980, Senate Print Number 7749;

                            By Senator Maziarz, page number 46,

                 Calendar Number 1021, Senate Print Number

                 1505A;

                            By Senator Marcellino, page number

                 53, Calendar Number 1105, Senate Print Number

                 7591;

                            By Senator Morahan, page number 53,

                 Calendar Number 1116, Senate Print Number

                 6036B;





                                                          3538



                            By Senator Alesi, page number 55,

                 Calendar Number 1131, Senate Print Number

                 4493A;

                            By Senator Farley, page number 56,

                 Calendar Number 1148, Senate Print Number

                 1165;

                            And by Senator Nozzolio, page

                 number 58, Calendar Number 1167, Senate Print

                 Number 5824.

                            I now move that these bills retain

                 their place on the order of Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bills will

                 retain their place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Spano, please remove the

                 sponsor star from Calendar 288.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    I wish to call up

                 my bill, Print Number 6767, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.  I now





                                                          3539



                 move to reconsider the vote by which the bill

                 was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Just a

                 second.  Hold on, Senator.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 875, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6767, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    I now offer the

                 following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received.

                            Senator, are you moving to

                 reconsider the bill?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    And the

                 amendments are received.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,





                                                          3540



                 on behalf of Senator Seward, there will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Insurance Committee

                 in the Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Immediate meeting of the Insurance Committee

                 in the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Skelos, shall we do the

                 substitutions now?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please make the

                 substitutions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the substitutions.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 10,

                 Senator Lack moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number

                 7162A, and substitute it for the identical

                 Senate Bill Number 4686A, Third Reading

                 Calendar 300.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 substitution is ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The





                                                          3541



                 Secretary will read the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 80, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4572, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to increasing the penalty.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 237, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 674B, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law and the

                 Family Court Act, in relation to the

                 definition of a "person in need of

                 supervision."

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the





                                                          3542



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 307, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3243, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to the imposition of driver's

                 license suspensions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 383, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6438A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to eliminating the additional fee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill





                                                          3543



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 391, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6009A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to participation.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 736, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7181A -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 754, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1469C, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to unfounded reports.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 756, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3952, an





                                                          3544



                 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

                 to the placement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 845, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7012, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law and the State

                 Technology Law, in relation to the Office for

                 Technology.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 852, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6148,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

                 to crime victims.





                                                          3545



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 857, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 7076, an

                 act to amend the State Administrative

                 Procedure Act, in relation to notice.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 870, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3174, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 April.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll call.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          3546



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 873, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4670, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 voting members.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 877, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7413, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law, in

                 relation to the preferred status.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.





                                                          3547



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 878, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 7469, an

                 act to amend the Public Officers Law, in

                 relation to the defense and indemnification.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 895, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 3893, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 standards for construction.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 919, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,





                                                          3548



                 Assembly Print Number 10801, an act to amend

                 Chapter 228 of the Laws of 1998 relating to

                 promotional eligibility.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 936, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 7122,

                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

                 Law, in relation to use and repair.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.





                                                          3549



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 952, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7480, an

                 act to amend Chapter 626 of the Laws of 1996

                 amending the Local Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 954, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7794, an

                 act to amend the Town Law and the Public

                 Officers Law, in relation to the residency of

                 persons.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.





                                                          3550



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 959, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 7078, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law, in relation to occupational

                 licenses.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 964, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3400A, an

                 act to amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts

                 Law and the General Obligations Law, in

                 relation to renunciations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          3551



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect September 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1004, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6074, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 establishing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1023, by Senator Lachman, Senate Print 2966B,





                                                          3552



                 an act to amend the Railroad Law, the Public

                 Authorities Law, and the State Finance Law, in

                 relation to providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1024, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5434A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to the appointment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          3553



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1034, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5682, an

                 act authorizing the conveyance of land by the

                 South Glens Falls Central School District.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1035, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7441A,

                 an act in relation to the apportionment of

                 state building aid.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          3554



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1044, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6261A, an

                 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation

                 to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1045, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6497A,

                 an act to amend the Navigation Law, in





                                                          3555



                 relation to the termination of the unsafe

                 operation of a vessel.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1046, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 7142, an act to amend the Navigation Law, in

                 relation to vessel equipment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 April.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.





                                                          3556



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1047, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 7143, an act to amend the Navigation Law, in

                 relation to service charges and fees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1052, by Member of the Assembly Tonko,

                 Assembly Print Number 10035, an act to amend

                 the Parks, Recreation and Historic

                 Preservation Law, in relation to the

                 appointments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          3557



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1177, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 6695, an

                 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,





                                                          3558



                 if we could take up the controversial

                 calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 237, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 674B, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law and the

                 Family Court Act, in relation to the

                 definition.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 237 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you,

                 Mr. Chairman.

                            The amendment is merely a

                 correction of a technicality that we missed

                 when we passed this two weeks ago, in order to

                 conform it to Section 371 of the Social

                 Services Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.





                                                          3559



                 President.  Would the sponsor yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            I'm wondering how it is that we

                 will be paying for this increase in the age

                 limit for PINS.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Okay, I believe we

                 probably spoke about that two weeks ago.

                            But to revisit, let me say that

                 it's a firm belief that, number one, the

                 number of young people who need aid as PINS or

                 need to be put in a PINS position will be

                 decreased severely -- I shouldn't say

                 severely, let me use another word -

                 dramatically.  Because it's really felt that a

                 lot of young people can use the direction and

                 the opportunity to be in their homes between

                 ages 16 and 18, and a lot of growing up goes

                 on during those particular years.

                            And we are looking right now at a

                 survey of the information as it starts to come





                                                          3560



                 in -- and I know we spoke two weeks ago about

                 unfunded mandates onto the counties.  And it

                 is no intent of anyone to see that there will

                 be unfunded mandates.  We're hopeful that the

                 diversionary process and the reduction of

                 people involved will cover some of the -- what

                 might be costs, additional costs.

                            And we are expecting also to

                 identify clearly what those additional costs

                 might be.  Because we know Family Courts are

                 already talking to us about what those might

                 be.  And we're looking for some additional

                 dollars if they're necessary quickly.  But

                 when next year's budget comes up, we'll be

                 taking that into serious consideration,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm still not





                                                          3561



                 sure if -- and I assume -- I can't imagine

                 that there wouldn't be an increase in costs,

                 just because the number of young people up to

                 the age of 16 will probably remain somewhat

                 constant and there will be more people between

                 the ages of 16 and 18.  Otherwise, we wouldn't

                 even be voting on this bill.

                            So I'm wondering whether or not the

                 counties will pay for this or whether the

                 state will reimburse.

                            SENATOR RATH:    At this point -

                 at this point, there is no method for the

                 inclusion of dollars for the counties.  But as

                 we spoke of two weeks ago, there is a study

                 and there is money in the budget for the study

                 that will show us what those costs might be.

                            And we're also looking for some

                 dollars to cover some costs.  Now, I can't

                 tell you what that is right now.  But it

                 looked like there was some money in the budget

                 that might cover some of these costs.

                            And we're very cognizant of the

                 concerns that the counties have.  My

                 chairmanship being Local Government, I talk to

                 these folks all the time.  And we are





                                                          3562



                 cognizant that they're concerned.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Could the sponsor

                 be more specific about where these state funds

                 are coming from that she's identified?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I cannot be more

                 specific at this time.  I just learned about

                 it today, that there may be some monies in the

                 budget that could be diverted in that

                 direction.  And we're looking into it.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.





                                                          3563



                            SENATOR DUANE:    When the sponsor

                 finds the source of these unidentified funds,

                 if she could notify me as soon as possible.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Sure.  I'll be

                 very glad to, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Mr. President.  If that funding doesn't come

                 through, then is it the expectation that the

                 counties will pay for this?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Senator Duane, you

                 are touching a very respondent chord in me,

                 because I have a lot of concern about who pays

                 for what, whether it's the counties or whether

                 it's the state, on a lot of fronts that we

                 deal with.  And this is just another one of

                 them.

                            I mean, we have -- we have many.

                 We argued it the night on the floor on the

                 HCRA issue.  We talk about it in relation to

                 the prisoners.  We talk about it in relation

                 to a lot of items.

                            And yes, I'm extremely aware of

                 this.  And as I said, you're touching a very

                 respondent chord.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.





                                                          3564



                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I believe that

                 when we last discussed this legislation that

                 the budget had not yet been passed.  Or is -

                 am I -

                            SENATOR RATH:    No, if it was, it

                 was just about at the same time.  I think this

                 happened after the budget passed, Senator.  I

                 think it was after.

                            In fact, I know it was after,

                 because we -- because I was able to say to you

                 that day that the money is there for the

                 study.  Because that was what had been at

                 loggerheads, because which came first, getting

                 the study done or getting the legislation

                 done.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.  I believe that the last time we

                 debated this bill was April 18th.  And while I





                                                          3565



                 think that the committees had met, I don't

                 think that we had yet passed the budget.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Well, you know,

                 you could be right, that the committees -- and

                 I had heard or knew that this was going to

                 come forward out of the conference committee

                 and there was no reason to believe that it was

                 going to change.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, would the sponsor continue to

                 yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm wondering if

                 the sponsor would consider starring this bill

                 until we had a little more clarity on where it

                 was that the money would come from to pay for

                 it, whether or not we would expect the

                 counties to pay for it or whether there is a

                 funding stream from the state.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Mr. Chairman,

                 through you -- I guess I'm taking a page from





                                                          3566



                 Senator Duane's book.  The -- no, I will not

                 star the bill.

                            I don't want there to be any

                 expectation that whatever costs there are are

                 going to be picked up.  What I'm looking at is

                 trying to see if there is a place where there

                 are some dollars that might provide some

                 relief if there is a serious cost somewhere.

                            Right now, again, I don't want any

                 expectations to go up.  This is what -- this

                 was what was holding the bill up in many

                 regards for 25 years, was because people were

                 saying you've got to provide for the costs of

                 this thing.  Now the Assembly has seen the

                 wisdom of moving forward with this in order to

                 save these young children -- young people.

                 They're not really children, maybe, between

                 ages 16 and 18.  Maybe they are, I'm not sure.

                            But we need to get this tool in the

                 hands of the law enforcement agencies and

                 there for the protection of parents who are

                 attempting to keep their children in their

                 homes between ages 16 and 18.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to





                                                          3567



                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    If, as I believe

                 most of us here believe, that it is important

                 to increase the PINS age to 18 -- and I think

                 that there's pretty much unanimous agreement

                 that that is what we should be doing, the

                 responsible, the just thing to be doing -- if

                 it is that important, should we not then also

                 provide for the funding in this legislation or

                 at the very least make it clear that under no

                 circumstances will this be an unfunded mandate

                 to the counties?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Senator Duane, the

                 thing that held this up for between 20 and 25

                 years was the fact that no one could come to

                 any kind of a conclusion as to what it might

                 cost.

                            There was a bill in the other house

                 that was looking for -- I believe it was $50

                 million.  And this house felt that that was





                                                          3568



                 way beyond anything that it might possibly

                 cost, and that there might be a proliferation

                 of services spring up to cover what was

                 anticipated that never would be.

                            And so the conclusion of it has

                 been that we're going to go forward.  The

                 implementation date of this is when?  Let me

                 just take a quick look.  Because we may not

                 be -- there may not be an awful lot of time.

                 It seems to me that there's a rather short

                 time frame on this.

                            November 1st implementation date.

                 So that gives us two months of experience

                 before we actually get to a point where we

                 would now be into the counties' next fiscal

                 year.

                            And the study that's going to go

                 forward will start immediately.  And I would

                 tell you, Senator Duane, I had a -- what I

                 would call a quick review done in one of my

                 counties upstate two years ago as we were

                 working forward to this point.  And the

                 information that came back to me

                 demographically as to how many young people

                 might be expected to go into the program in





                                                          3569



                 relation to the experience they had had with

                 those that were in the program, in relation to

                 how many there were in the county, and the

                 kinds of services that they needed -- because

                 they were pounding on me because of the

                 serious concern of what the costs would be.

                            And they came back to me and said,

                 It's really not going to be anywhere near what

                 we thought it was going to be in terms of

                 cost.  And so, again, it was a quick study.  I

                 don't want to go into detail on it.  But I

                 just do need to tell you I was assured through

                 just that much that it wasn't going to cost a

                 whole lot of money.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, on

                 the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I totally support increasing the

                 age of PINS to 18 so that those who are

                 requiring supervision as well as those who may

                 require supervision from 16 years of age on

                 get the supervision that they need.





                                                          3570



                            That said, if this battle has been

                 going on for years and years and years, I

                 don't understand why we haven't looked at what

                 the costs of this program would be.  The issue

                 is not whether this costs $1 or $50 million,

                 the issue is who is going to pay for that.

                            We've set up a system here where we

                 will now be requiring counties to accept young

                 people into the PINS program, and yet we have

                 not set up a system for them to be reimbursed.

                 And so we have in fact made it possible that

                 this will be an unfunded mandate to the

                 counties.

                            Now, if we have the guts to

                 increase the age to 18, we should also have

                 the guts to put into place a funding stream at

                 the same time, through some kind of state

                 funding mechanism, so that it doesn't make it

                 so that a county would have to do it.

                            Now, it's possible, I guess, that a

                 county might be able to opt out of this.  And

                 yet again, that's made it possible for these

                 young people in need of supervision to not get

                 the supervision they need, depending on what

                 county it is that they're living in.





                                                          3571



                            So all around, I believe that while

                 I'm going to vote for this, I would prefer to

                 vote for it with the proviso that the state

                 would reimburse the counties.  I think that's

                 the responsible thing to do.  We should put

                 our money where our mouths are and back up

                 what our philosophy is with the dollars to

                 actually make it happen.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Mr. President, if

                 I might, the miracles of our electronic world

                 have once again come to our rescue.  And a

                 staff member who knew more than I do,

                 certainly, about where this money is in the

                 budget has called to advise that the family

                 assistance budget has $23 million for family

                 preservation and foster care diversion.

                            And that is where we are looking,

                 Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    On the bill,

                 Mr. President.





                                                          3572



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Morahan, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Senator Rath

                 just brought up a point that I was going to

                 add to the debate.

                            But I want to point out quickly

                 that one of the major hopes behind this bill,

                 it's really a parents' bill.  We're not

                 looking for the children to get into the

                 supervision.  We're not asking the counties or

                 necessarily envisioning that the counties are

                 now going to be overburdened with the cost.

                            What we're looking for here is to

                 give back parental control to parents of the

                 young boys under 18.  And I think that's

                 really a key element of the bill that so often

                 gets overlooked.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          3573



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            You know, I'm glad that there's

                 some funding, the 23 million.  I don't

                 specifically remember that item in the budget.

                 And I can't say with absolute knowledge that

                 that money is also not spoken for in other

                 ways.

                            But that said, that can't possibly

                 cover the cost, for instance, of all the

                 elements of the PINS program for the

                 16-to-18-year-olds, like probation and home

                 study and all of the other elements that go

                 along with it.

                            So again, while that's a nice small

                 start, I'm still unclear that that money is

                 actually dedicated towards this for the

                 16-to-18-year-old increase in age.  But also

                 it's inconceivable to me that that would be

                 anywhere near enough money for the full range

                 of programming that's needed for PINS.

                            So again, I'm going to vote for it





                                                          3574



                 because I'm so much in favor of

                 16-to-18-year-olds being covered by PINS, but

                 with real trepidation that we're going to end

                 up dumping the cost of this into the laps of

                 the counties in the form of an unfunded

                 mandate.  And that's just -- I mean, if we're

                 going to do mandates, we ought to be funding

                 them.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 307, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3243, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to the imposition.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Kuhl, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 307 by Senator Duane.





                                                          3575



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill is a very simple bill to

                 understand.  It provides another mechanism for

                 enforcement when people who are violators of

                 the Vehicle and Traffic Law don't comply with

                 the fines that are imposed by local justices.

                 It allows for a suspension of their license

                 pending their payments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  If

                 the sponsor would yield, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Kuhl, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    As I understand

                 it, this deals with the intent to consume by

                 persons under 21 years of age.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I believe that's

                 correct.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to





                                                          3576



                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Kuhl, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    If suspending the

                 license of someone under 21 years of age is a

                 good idea, why isn't it a good idea to suspend

                 the license of a person who breaks this law no

                 matter how old they are?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Perhaps you can

                 answer that better, Senator, than I can.

                            I'm only concentrating, Senator, on

                 this particular proposal.  It came to my

                 attention by several of my local justices of

                 the peace that when we had young people who

                 were violating the ABC laws, that in fact they

                 were not paying the fines.  They were just

                 kind of, if you will, flaunting in the face of

                 the local justices this violation.

                            So they felt that this was an

                 adequate means of enforcement.  And I happen

                 to believe that they're correct.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.





                                                          3577



                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Kuhl, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'll yield for

                 another question, yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields for one question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    What about a

                 45-year-old person who fails to pay their

                 fine?  Should they not also be subject -- why

                 are we being harsher with people under 21 than

                 we are for people who are over 21?  It seems

                 to me the law is the law and everybody should

                 obey it the same way.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, Senator, if

                 you would refer to the law that we're talking

                 about, we're talking about underage

                 consumption.  Last I knew the age of

                 consumption, this age was 21, not somebody 45.

                 They're perfectly legal to consume alcoholic

                 beverages.

                            So this law, this proposed law,

                 deals with a very specific purpose and only

                 that purpose now.  So I think you probably can





                                                          3578



                 answer your own question if you just review

                 the material that's in the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    On the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    As someone who

                 actually has read the bill, this is talking

                 about people who don't pay their fine.  This

                 is not about who it is and who isn't who has

                 open containers, it's about people who are not

                 paying their fine.

                            So since the bill is about people

                 who are not paying their fine, then the law

                 should treat everyone equally, I believe, and

                 we shouldn't just single out people who are

                 under the age of 21.  The law is the law in

                 terms of paying fines, whether you're 45 or

                 you're 19.

                            I think that the right thing to do

                 in this state is to treat all people equally

                 when they break the same law.  So I would

                 encourage my colleagues to vote no and to not

                 be discriminating or treating more harshly

                 people under the age of 21.  I don't think





                                                          3579



                 that a 19-year-old should be treated more

                 harshly for breaking the same law that I

                 break.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 391, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6009A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to the participation

                 by the Henry Viscardi School.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 391 by Senator Hevesi.





                                                          3580



                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill would allow the Viscardi

                 School, located in Roslyn, New York, which

                 basically serves as a school for children who

                 are predominantly in wheelchairs, to provide

                 them with the ability to join the retirement

                 system at the election of the employer, as do

                 the other eleven 4201 schools for the deaf and

                 the blind.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor yield to one question,

                 please?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    The memo in

                 support of this legislation says the

                 following:  Employees of all of the other 4201

                 schools in New York State are eligible to

                 participate.





                                                          3581



                            My question is, why is this one

                 school exempted if they have received the

                 classification of being a 4201 school?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    The legislation

                 was written for the 4201s prior to Henry

                 Viscardi being designated as a 4201 school.

                 And therefore, when it was written, they were

                 not included in it.

                            It's clearly meant that it's

                 supposed to encompass all of them.  They

                 just -- they thought they could do this

                 without legislation.  We've got gotten an

                 opinion from the Comptroller's office that

                 they cannot.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 through you, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, do you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    So the original

                 legislation was flawed, and as a result we

                 have this situation now and there's nothing





                                                          3582



                 that should prevent this school -

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Actually, the

                 original legislation referred to schools that

                 had deaf, dumb and blind children.  And

                 obviously, as you know, that that's no longer

                 an appellation we choose to use in this state.

                            And so what this evidences is a

                 broadening, ever so slightly, of the school to

                 include individuals who are in wheelchairs.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    I'd like to

                 thank Senator Hevesi for his questions.

                            And let me just, in closing, state

                 the following.  I've had many wonderful

                 opportunities in this job representing the

                 people of my district, but none so gratifying

                 as actually going to the Henry Viscardi

                 School.

                            I would invite anyone in this

                 chamber to do this.  These students are

                 miracles in their own right.  They are





                                                          3583



                 wonderful, wonderful students.  The education

                 provided is tops in the nation.  And it is

                 really one of the gems of New York State.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 754, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1469C, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to unfounded reports.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Lay it aside

                 for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 756, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3952, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation





                                                          3584



                 to the placement of children.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 756 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Mr. President, what this bill would

                 do would be to permit a court where a child,

                 pursuant to a foster-care placement, had been

                 placed with a relative or other suitable

                 person, to permit the court within its

                 discretion to extend the continuation of that

                 foster-care placement and do so not under the

                 current constricts of the law, which basically

                 say there shall be a one-year extension, but

                 to permit the court to provide for an extended

                 placement, thereby obviating the need for the

                 family member or relative to continuously come

                 back to Family Court.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Would the sponsor yield, please?





                                                          3585



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            I'm wondering whether or not the

                 sponsor could foresee a situation in which a

                 Family Court gave a child to a grandparent or

                 another relative for over a year and, say, the

                 mother was in treatment -- alcohol or drug

                 treatment, say, or whatever -- and then the

                 mother can't get the child back after a year

                 because the other relative doesn't want to

                 give them up.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    First, let me

                 make a slight, if I may, correction in my

                 opening remarks.  I referred to this as foster

                 care.  This obviously is not a situation

                 involving foster care, because the placement

                 has been done with a relative.

                            In response to your question,

                 Senator Duane, the court in its discretion, at

                 that time and place when it would have





                                                          3586



                 extended that placement, I'm sure would have

                 considered whatever the mother -- if the

                 mother was the parent who had released the

                 child into the custody of the relative,

                 whatever her status was at that particular

                 time.

                            If events were to change and for

                 some reason or other that mother now believed

                 that she was more appropriately the person

                 with whom that placement and, in effect,

                 custody should reside, she would have the

                 ability to make application to the court where

                 the order was entered, the Family Court.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is it possible -

                 I've been de-miked.  Is it possible that a

                 one-year -- that -- I have a loud voice, but I





                                                          3587



                 don't want anyone to strain.

                            Is it possible that having the

                 one-year limitation might make it mandatory

                 for the Family Court to reevaluate the

                 situation, as opposed to letting more than a

                 year go by?  I'm just wondering whether or not

                 it's a good idea to keep the year limitation,

                 because it forces the court to perform

                 oversight at least once a year.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I would think

                 this would be a desirable end to seek,

                 inasmuch as these placements with relatives

                 are not technically the foster-care placements

                 in which we know there are certain

                 reimbursements or funding provided to the

                 family or person with whom the child is

                 placed.

                            There really is -- we're not

                 talking about financial remuneration here.

                 And to chase people back and forth into Family

                 Court where a court does not believe that

                 there's anything adverse to the interests of

                 the child and chooses to extend the placement

                 for a greater period of time, generally

                 because of the relationship of the child to





                                                          3588



                 the person with whom he or she has been

                 placed -- i.e., a relative -- I would think

                 that that certainly is effective, efficient,

                 and recognizing of the desire not to impose

                 upon these relatives by bringing them back and

                 forth.

                            Again, keeping in mind, as I

                 responded to your initial question, if the

                 mother in the example you gave wishes to

                 dispute this, there's nothing to prevent her

                 from coming back to Family Court and

                 requesting a hearing.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            How is this bill consistent with

                 the Adoption and Safe Families Act?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The second part





                                                          3589



                 of the bill, or the second portion of the bill

                 containing new language, is consistent with

                 the language in ASFA.

                            And there are references in several

                 places in the ASFA bill which we did last

                 year -- I have a copy of the bill in front of

                 me, and I'm looking, for example, to page 25.

                 And it makes reference again to the same

                 60-day period that you see referred to between

                 lines 12 and 17 in the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  And

                 if the sponsor would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Does that mean

                 that the time frames in the Adoption and Safe

                 Families Act would automatically be in effect?

                 Or what are -- if we're removing the year

                 limitation, what will supersede -- what time

                 limitation will there be, or will there be any

                 time limitations?





                                                          3590



                            SENATOR SALAND:    You will have

                 the same 15-to-22-month time period that you

                 have in ASFA.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And I think I

                 have one final question -- which I've totally

                 lost.  Thank you.  Thank you.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 845, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7012, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law and the State

                 Technology Law, in relation to the Office for

                 Technology.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    I withdraw my

                 request.





                                                          3591



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            Senator Paterson, did you request

                 an explanation?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 we don't need an explanation on that bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the same date as

                 Section 2 of Chapter 4 of the Laws of 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 852, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6148,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

                 to crime victims.





                                                          3592



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 852 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This measure is to expand the

                 current Son of Sam Law to include the profits

                 from non-sanctioned inmate ventures as those

                 which may be subjected to civil suits brought

                 by crime victims.

                            Under the current Son of Sam Law,

                 only those profits from the crime -- that is,

                 profit made by criminals as the direct result

                 of their crime -- will be subjected to Son of

                 Sam Law protections.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Would the sponsor

                 yield to a question, please?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.





                                                          3593



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Doesn't DOCS

                 doesn't already stop this now?  Why do we need

                 the legislation?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Profits made

                 by criminals directly and indirectly may or

                 may not be stopped by DOCS, Mr. President.

                            That we found artwork that Arthur

                 Shawcross was actually trading and venturing

                 over the Internet through different brokers.

                 And it just happened by accident that we were

                 able to find this type of business activity.

                            It's difficult for DOCS to carry

                 and find everything.  And that certainly we

                 say that DOCS is doing a good job in

                 restricting, in most cases, businesses by

                 inmates in prison.  It's not foolproof.  And

                 that we certainly want to ensure that all is

                 done to prevent the profit from this type of

                 unsanctioned behavior from going to anyone

                 else but the crime victim.

                            That's one thing that is not in the

                 statute or not in the policy now, Senator,

                 that the activity may or may not be caught in

                 time.  But the fact of the matter is profits

                 could occur.  And if they do, we want to make





                                                          3594



                 sure that the crime victim is the recipient of

                 those profits.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    If we lay aside

                 that there's really nothing in this bill which

                 makes it any easier or harder for DOCS to

                 catch people making profits, except that a law

                 is passed -- although I doubt that a memo will

                 go out to the 70,000 people in jail that

                 they're liable under this law.  I believe

                 that, like I, they've all heard what happened

                 Arthur Shawcross when it was discovered that

                 he was selling his paintings.

                            I was wondering if the sponsor was

                 familiar with what happened to Arthur

                 Shawcross.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,





                                                          3595



                 I am extremely knowledgeable about what

                 happened to the victims of Arthur Shawcross,

                 that they all died.  He was a serial killer.

                 He certainly, in engaging his crimes, would

                 have been subjected to the death penalty had

                 the death penalty been in fact in law during

                 the 1980s when he committed his crimes.

                            What we want to do with this

                 measure is to ensure that the spirit of the

                 Son of Sam Law is extended through all

                 criminal -- all ventures by criminals and that

                 no criminal be able to profit from the

                 notoriety of their crime.

                            Now, Arthur Shawcross's paintings

                 may not have been the direct result of his

                 criminality, and that he -- to be able to

                 market those paintings, certainly it was the

                 indirect result of his criminality.  That in

                 effect because of his crime being so

                 sensational, he found a market, albeit a -

                 you hate to think of who would be purchasing

                 that type of artwork.  But nonetheless, people

                 are buying that artwork because of the

                 sensational nature of the artist.

                            And what we're saying here is





                                                          3596



                 certainly the victims of those criminals

                 should be remembered first, rather than the

                 profit motive because of the notorious crime

                 occurring.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Just to refresh

                 everybody's memory of what my question was, my

                 question was what happened to Arthur

                 Shawcross.  I think everybody, including

                 myself, in the State of New York knows what

                 happened to the victims of Arthur Shawcross.

                 That was not my question.

                            My question was whether the sponsor

                 knew what happened to Arthur Shawcross after

                 it was discovered that he was selling these

                 paintings.  Although I will give a hint to

                 everybody.  Actually, he wasn't selling his





                                                          3597



                 paintings.  He did send paintings to dealers

                 who sent him clothes and things like that.

                 The dealers did sell paintings.

                            There's no evidence that he made

                 any money, although he did get, it is true,

                 material objects like shoes and clothes and

                 probably food -- and not cash -- by the sale

                 of the paintings by the dealers.

                            But I'm just wondering whether the

                 sponsor -- if I could just ask the question

                 again that didn't get answered, if he knows

                 what actually happened to Arthur Shawcross

                 when it was discovered that he had sent

                 paintings to dealers.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, I'd be glad to answer Senator

                 Duane's question.

                            I am reading from a news release

                 from the Department of Correctional Services

                 dated September 17, 1999, that indicates

                 Arthur Shawcross had his arts and crafts

                 privileges suspended on September 10th, one

                 day after the department learned that eBay was

                 conducting public auctions on a variety of

                 Arthur Shawcross's artwork.





                                                          3598



                            An investigation determined that

                 Arthur Shawcross should be sent and confined

                 to special housing, and he received, because

                 of those violations, a sentence to two years

                 of special housing.

                            It should be also underscored that

                 Mr. Shawcross, who was age 54 at the time of

                 this release, is serving a term of 250 years

                 to life for his crimes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Does the sponsor

                 believe that two years in an SHU, probably

                 double-bunked, and five years without any art

                 privileges, does he believe that that's a

                 fitting punishment for what Arthur Shawcross

                 did in addition to his several lifetimes'

                 worth of time to which he had already been





                                                          3599



                 sentenced?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 through you.  I'm not a judge, I'm not a

                 disciplinarian within DOCS.  But frankly, I

                 think anything done to Arthur Shawcross would

                 be pale in comparison to what he has done to

                 victims that he has murdered, or to the State

                 of New York, which has been the unfortunate

                 total victim of his criminality.

                            Removing his art privileges I think

                 are de minimis in terms of the havoc that he

                 has wreaked on the State of New York.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            Mr. President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Again, I don't

                 believe this legislation is necessary if we

                 just look at the punishment that Arthur

                 Shawcross got for his having sent artwork to

                 dealers or whoever, weirdos out there, in

                 exchange for clothes and shoes and maybe candy

                 bars.  And so he didn't really profit except

                 for being able to walk around the institution

                 more comfortably.





                                                          3600



                            And being punished by two years at

                 an SHU, when I would submit that one day in an

                 SHU is cruel and unusual punishment, and not

                 being able to paint for five years, even

                 though clearly painting is something which has

                 a rehabilitative value for Mr. Shawcross, that

                 we don't need this legislation.

                            In fact, there's plenty of

                 punishment to go around for people who are

                 already incarcerated.  And particularly for

                 someone who is incarcerated, as I say, for

                 several lifetimes' worth of years, to then

                 additionally punish such a person by putting

                 them in an SHU and by not letting them have

                 this form of recreation I think is cruel and

                 unusual punishment.

                            I don't think we need to enshrine

                 this kind of inhumanity in legislation.  So

                 I'll be voting no.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the





                                                          3601



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 857, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 7076, an

                 act to amend the State Administrative

                 Procedure Act, in relation to notice.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    This bill would

                 exclude cable television companies from the

                 State Administrative Procedures Act, much the

                 same way as some utilities and some

                 telecommunications companies are already

                 excluded.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Would the

                 sponsor yield for a question or two?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator





                                                          3602



                 Alesi, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Senator, there's a concern here

                 that in the case of cable television companies

                 and their local negotiation with the local

                 municipality, oftentimes, in setting up their

                 system, that if we have a change in companies

                 and there's no public hearings and those

                 things are eliminated, would this leave those

                 municipalities and therefore the people that

                 live there at a disadvantage in the change

                 because we're eliminating this public forum?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.  No.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Can -- Mr.

                 President, if -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    -- he would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you continue to yield?





                                                          3603



                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I appreciate

                 the brevity of your answer, but I would ask if

                 you could just give me a few reasons why

                 that's the case, why it would not leave the

                 local municipalities and the people that live

                 there at a disadvantage if we don't have these

                 public hearings.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    In response to

                 the question, the municipalities, in granting

                 the operating franchise agreement, can at any

                 time with somebody new make amendments.  And

                 in the course of making those amendments, the

                 public good would be served.

                            But to enlarge on the underlying

                 purpose of this bill, by requiring cable

                 companies to fall under the State

                 Administrative Procedures Act when telephone

                 companies and utility companies are not

                 required to, we're forcing them into a

                 duplicative set of circumstances as far as the

                 authorization to operate.

                            And in this very fast-changing day





                                                          3604



                 of cable television, requiring

                 telecommunications capabilities and Internet

                 capabilities, there are incumbent phone

                 companies and utility companies that already

                 have the ability to do that.  And by forcing

                 the cable companies into the duplicative

                 process, it renders them to be a weak

                 competitor.

                            And so this bill, by removing that,

                 would allow them to be a stronger competitor,

                 and the competition that would result would

                 serve the public good.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would yield to one

                 last question, I think I can clarify -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    -- I think I

                 can clarify pretty much what I wanted to ask.

                 And I'm sorry I was a little bit unclear.

                            Mr. President, through you.

                 Senator, would you say then that when the

                 purchase is made, the old contract still

                 stands through its termination or through its





                                                          3605



                 expiration time, the contract that is already

                 in place with the cable company that's being

                 bought and that municipality, that contract

                 still stays whole?

                            Because basically that's my

                 question.  If the contract is still in effect,

                 then we don't have a problem with this bill at

                 all.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.  The contract would most likely

                 stay in place because they're buying the

                 assets, and the contract would be deemed an

                 asset.  And because they'd be buying that

                 asset, it wouldn't be changed.  And

                 therefore -- and if it were, then, they would

                 have to go back through the application

                 process at the municipal level.

                            And under this bill, as long as

                 they have that process available at the

                 municipal level, it's not needed at the state

                 level.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator





                                                          3606



                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor yield for a question or two?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Senator, if I can get a little bit

                 specific with you, to your knowledge does the

                 City of New York require in its municipal

                 franchise agreements that a public review and

                 approval process go into effect should a cable

                 company decide that they want to transfer

                 control?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    It's my

                 understanding, through you, Mr. President,

                 that all municipalities do.

                            And again, under the circumstances

                 of that being the case, then the State

                 Administrative Procedures Act would be

                 redundant.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,





                                                          3607



                 through you, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, do you yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator, I'm

                 just a little bit confused.  Your memo in

                 support suggests that most municipalities

                 require that prior approval.  You're

                 suggesting now that all of them do?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    New York City

                 would be considered under the term "most

                 municipalities" in this instance.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    On the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    If New York City

                 is covered under this agreement or has their

                 own regulations that would require this type

                 of review, then I'm much more comfortable with

                 this.  If "most" is all, I'm also comfortable

                 with it.





                                                          3608



                            But if "most" is most, then that

                 leaves me with some trepidation here, because

                 there may be municipalities that decided not

                 to implement their own agreements to ensure

                 that there's a public review process pursuant

                 to transfer of control, because they knew that

                 the state had a system in place that would

                 protect against circumstances by which this

                 type of transfer would not be beneficial to

                 the municipality.

                            If I was drafting this legislation,

                 I would probably suggest that this -- we could

                 go ahead and do this to foster competition and

                 expedite the process, but I would have

                 included a provision that suggested if any

                 municipality in New York State did not provide

                 for such a review process, then the original

                 review process that is current law would go

                 into effect.

                            Not enough to make me vote against

                 this legislation, since New York City,

                 according to the sponsor, does stipulate in

                 their franchise agreements that there will be

                 a review process.  But it's something that I

                 think would make this a better piece of





                                                          3609



                 legislation.

                            But I intend to vote in the

                 affirmative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the same date as

                 Section 2 of Chapter 416 of the Laws of 1998.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 873, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4670, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 voting members.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Padavan, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 873 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    As the bill





                                                          3610



                 indicates very directly, this allows the

                 superintendent of the State Police to

                 authorize one of his representatives to

                 replace him or to represent him at a meeting

                 of the Law Enforcement Agency Accreditation

                 Council.

                            Similarly, the police commissioner

                 of the City of New York can designate a

                 surrogate who is a member of the department

                 who has achieved the rank of captain or above.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Would the sponsor

                 yield for a question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            What is the Law Enforcement

                 Accreditation Council?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    As you know, we

                 have accreditors that go around and

                 accreditate hospitals to determine that

                 they're meeting certain specified standards of





                                                          3611



                 performance, procedure, and so on.

                            Well, that's what this council does

                 with police departments.  As you know, there

                 are many small police departments around the

                 state.  And they serve that function.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Padavan, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    How many members

                 are there of the council?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    I don't recall,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I don't want

                 to -- it's not a big deal, but I mean like 10

                 or like 50 or like 3 or -

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Somewhere

                 between 3 and 50.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Very helpful.

                            All right, thank you.





                                                          3612



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    You're welcome.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 878, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 7469, an

                 act to amend the Public Officers Law, in

                 relation to the defense and indemnification.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Goodman, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 878 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator Duane,

                 it's always a pleasure to respond to your

                 repeated questions of my legislative program.

                 I thank you for your interest and curiosity.





                                                          3613



                            This bill does the following.  Its

                 purpose is to afford defense and

                 indemnification protection for the employees

                 of the Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller Empire

                 State Plaza Performing Arts Center, fondly

                 known as the Egg.

                            The existing law provides

                 substantive and procedural conditions for the

                 defense and indemnification of state officers

                 and employees.  Public Officers Law Section 19

                 relates to reimbursement of defense costs

                 incurred by and on behalf of state employees.

                            The Egg was created as a body

                 corporate and politic pursuant to Chapter 688

                 of the Laws of 1979.  Under this chapter,

                 employees of the corporation were designated

                 as employees of the State of New York until

                 1992, when Chapter 436 abolished the

                 designation.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Excuse me, I'm

                 not quite finished.  I was just -- the noise





                                                          3614



                 was quite pervasive, so I thought by listening

                 to it I might quiet it.

                            The bill of the corporation would

                 restore a privilege and benefit the employees

                 enjoyed for the first 12 years that the

                 corporation existed.  In 1992, removal of

                 defense and indemnity protection was incident

                 to salaried-employee benefit considerations

                 and not as a calculated undertaking.

                            I understand you have a question,

                 sir, as to whether private insurance would

                 cover this.  The answer is it could be

                 obtained, but at a considerable cost to the

                 state.  The legislation which we pass would

                 obviate the need for such an expenditure.

                            Although the corporation has the

                 ability to -- without the defense and

                 indemnity protection, it's increasingly

                 difficult for the corporation to attract new

                 directors.

                            And that, I think, gives you the

                 substance of the essence of the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Would the sponsor yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator





                                                          3615



                 Goodman, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Isn't

                 probably the best solution to this to just

                 have the state take the Empire State Plaza

                 Performing Arts Center over again?  If we're

                 going to -

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, that's

                 not considered an appropriate solution.  This

                 is a matter that has a considerable history.

                 It is an arts institution that -- it's being

                 carried on its own bottom for a group of

                 organizational reasons that relate to its

                 performance and its mission.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, I'm still -- if we're going to pay

                 the freight for the insurance -- I mean, the

                 cost for the insurance is the same whether

                 it's under the present system and they have to

                 pay it themselves or whether the state pays

                 it.

                            So I don't think there's any cost





                                                          3616



                 difference except for the state is going to

                 pay one way or the other.  So why wouldn't it

                 be just as well if the state took it back

                 over?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    There's no cost

                 to the state unless some action is brought

                 against the individuals in the Egg.  And if

                 it's brought, then the defense will be taken

                 up by the state in an appropriate fashion.  As

                 you may know, the Attorney General defends

                 state employees against such problems.

                            No cost factor involved, barring

                 any investment of time.  But this is fixed

                 overhead in any event.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President.  Could the sponsor tell me if

                 there's been a lot of lawsuits lodged against

                 the officers of the arts center?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No, there have

                 not.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Does the sponsor

                 anticipate that there would be lawsuits if

                 there haven't been any up to now since 1992, I

                 guess?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    It's only with





                                                          3617



                 the greatest reluctance that we would crack

                 such an exquisite Egg.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No one loves

                 comedies and the theater more than I do.  But

                 seriously, I'm wondering why it is that we are

                 indemnifying people who probably will never

                 have lawsuits lodged against them.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I think I

                 explained that there's a reluctance on the

                 part of people to come in and become directors

                 of an organization of this sort because of the

                 possibility of what in corporate terms are

                 known as strike suits.  I think you're

                 familiar with that term.  Nuisance suits and

                 the like.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And just to

                 reiterate, this was -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, do you wish the sponsor to continue to

                 yield?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Goodman, do you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I do.





                                                          3618



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    So this was a

                 flaw of the original legislation which made

                 the arts center a quasi rather than a

                 government facility?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No, it wasn't a

                 flaw.  Because as I stated earlier in my

                 explanation, this previously did exist but at

                 the time that there was an alteration in the

                 status of this, it was inadvertently dropped.

                 This repairs an inadvertence.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And post 1992 -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, do you wish the sponsor to continue to

                 yield?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Goodman, do you yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And prior to

                 1992, the center had difficulty having people

                 serve on its board?





                                                          3619



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    That's what

                 we're advised, yes.  Because of this problem.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 954, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7794, an

                 act to amend the Town Law and the Public

                 Officers Law, in relation to the residency.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          3620



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Morahan, that concludes the

                 reading of the controversial calendar.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Is there any housekeeping at the

                 desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, I

                 believe we have a motion.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            On behalf of Senator Padavan, on

                 page number 35 I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 897, Senate

                 Print Number 6507, and ask that said bill

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bill will

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.





                                                          3621



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  There being no further business to

                 come before the Senate, I move we adjourn

                 until Tuesday, May 23rd, at 3:00 p.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Tuesday, May 23rd, at 3:00 p.m.

                            (Whereupon, at 4:15 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)