Regular Session - June 7, 2000

                                                              4352



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               June 7, 2000

                                10:09 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 SENATOR PATRICIA K. McGEE, Acting President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          4353



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senate will come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to rise and

                 repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    In the

                 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a

                 moment of silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Reading

                 of the Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Tuesday, June 6, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, June 5,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go to the calendar and take up





                                                          4354



                 Calendar Number 1315 and have the last section

                 read for the purpose of Senator Libous voting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1315.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1315, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1638B,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 the crime of partial birth abortion.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Aye.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please withdraw

                 the roll call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The roll

                 call is withdrawn.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could call up Calendar Number 1316 and





                                                          4355



                 have the last section read for the purposes of

                 Senators Libous and Nozzolio voting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar 1316.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1316, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4691A,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law and the

                 Executive Law, in relation to hate crimes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Nay.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Nay.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please withdraw

                 the roll call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The roll

                 call is withdrawn.





                                                          4356



                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could go

                 back to regular order.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Nozzolio,

                 would you please place a sponsor star on

                 Calendar 1086.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    That

                 bill will be starred.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if I could just interrupt.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    There will be an





                                                          4357



                 immediate meeting of the Judiciary Committee

                 in the Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Judiciary

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, which is

                 Senate Print 3554, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 108, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 3554, an

                 act to amend the Banking Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Madam President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          4358



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    I now offer the

                 following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Amendments received.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            Amendments are offered to the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:

                            By Senator Nozzolio, on page 8,

                 Calendar Number 248, Senate Print Number

                 6282D;

                            By Senator Volker, on page 11,

                 Calendar Number 396, Senate Print Number 6590;

                            By Senator Trunzo, on page 24,

                 Calendar Number 812, Senate Print Number 7228;

                            By Senator Skelos, on page 30,

                 Calendar Number 933, Senate Print Number

                 7092A;

                            By Senator Volker, on page number

                 31, Calendar Number 961, Senate Print Number

                 7188;

                            By Senator Skelos, on page 35,

                 Calendar Number 1043, Senate Print Number





                                                          4359



                 6777A;

                            By Senator Balboni, on page 42,

                 Calendar Number 1152, Senate Print Number

                 7161;

                            By Senator Balboni, page number 45,

                 Calendar Number 1272, Senate Print Number

                 7701;

                            By Senator Trunzo, on page 50,

                 Calendar Number 472, Senate Print Number

                 4412C;

                            By Senator Farley, page number 34,

                 Calendar Number 1018, Senate Print Number

                 7747.

                            Madam President, I now move that

                 these bills retain their place on the Third

                 Reading order.  Assuming you accepted the

                 amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Amendments received.  The bills will retain

                 their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Skelos, we have some

                 substitutions.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please make the

                 substitutions that are at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The





                                                          4360



                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 4,

                 Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge, from

                 the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number

                 109A and substitute it for the identical

                 Senate Bill Number 550A, Third Reading

                 Calendar 39.

                            On page 5, Senator Hannon moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill 3039 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 2157, Third

                 Reading Calendar 97.

                            On page 12, Senator Marcellino

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8111 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 4623, Third Reading Calendar 445.

                            On page 15, Senator Marcellino

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 10167 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 6706, Third Reading Calendar 549.

                            On page 15, Senator Morahan moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 1816 and substitute it





                                                          4361



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5929,

                 Third Reading Calendar 554.

                            On page 16, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9530 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6542,

                 Third Reading Calendar 620.

                            On page 24, Senator Meier moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 445 and substitute it for

                 the identical Senate Bill Number 927, Third

                 Reading Calendar 803.

                            On page 27, Senator Kuhl moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9723B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6767B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 875.

                            On page 27, Senator Bonacic moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10814A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7310A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 901.

                            On page 27, Senator Bonacic moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10815A and substitute it





                                                          4362



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7311A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 902.

                            On page 28, Senator Trunzo moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 6903B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3728B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 908.

                            On page 28, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7196A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4068A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 910.

                            On page 29, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9875 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7303,

                 Third Reading Calendar 918.

                            On page 33, Senator Marchi moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10950 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7080,

                 Third Reading Calendar 994.

                            On page 46, Senator Lack moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7265D and substitute it





                                                          4363



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3393C,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1283.

                            On page 47, Senator Maltese moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9539 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6485,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1293.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there's a privileged resolution at the desk by

                 Senator Seward.  May we have the title read

                 and move for its immediate adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could just lay that aside temporarily.

                            And could we take up Resolution

                 4545, by Senator Bonacic -- this resolution

                 passed the Senate on June 6th -- and have it

                 read in its entirety.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.





                                                          4364



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Bonacic, Legislative Resolution Number 4545,

                 honoring the valedictorians of the 40th Senate

                 District, in recognition of their outstanding

                 academic accomplishments at a celebration to

                 be held at the State Capitol on June 7, 2000.

                            "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

                 Legislative Body to act, in accord with its

                 long-standing traditions, honoring the youth

                 of today -- the leaders of tomorrow -- whose

                 character and achievements best exemplify the

                 ideals and values cherished by this great

                 state and nation; and

                            "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is

                 justly proud to recognize and commend the high

                 achievements of these dedicated students in

                 the 40th Senate District on the occasion of a

                 special celebratory visit to be held at the

                 State Capitol in Albany, New York, on

                 Wednesday, June 7, 2000.  At this time, the

                 valedictorians will receive special

                 recognition from the Senate in the Senate

                 chamber.  Lunch will be served in the office

                 of their state senator, followed by a tour of

                 the Capitol building; and





                                                          4365



                            "WHEREAS, these valedictorians

                 represent the best of developed potential

                 inherent in our most precious resources, our

                 youth, and their achievements have brought

                 enduring honor to their families and

                 communities, and should be recognized and

                 saluted; and

                            "WHEREAS, The valedictorians who

                 are being honored today for their outstanding

                 performances and exemplary achievements

                 include:  Thomas Ventimiglia, Heather

                 MacClintock, Emma K. Pokon, Tracey A.

                 Perazone, Jessica Arabski, Kristen Klufas,

                 Ilana Richman, Sherry Pieringer, Heather

                 Stickle, Christopher Colasuonno, Bethany

                 Slater, Robert Semerano, Hamsa Stainton,

                 Pamela Buck, Kelly Vanderzell, Rachael

                 Altbach, Joseph Iatauro, Katelyn Connell,

                 Erika Truax, Joshua M. Lader, James Van Loon,

                 Mara S. Miller, Robert Osterhoudt, Megan

                 Brennan, Kelly Brumbelow, Daniel J. Brown,

                 Jessica Garvin, Jessica Foster, Elisabeth

                 Hubert, Maragharita Pilarinos, Michael Reese,

                 Jamie Shampine, Christopher Phillips, Roger

                 Hall, Adrienne LaPierre, Jessica Sweeney,





                                                          4366



                 Jennifer Gewandter, Heather Prevosti, Kenneth

                 Stalter, and Amy Schildkraut; and

                            "WHEREAS, These valedictorians may

                 now stand with pride as they assess their

                 achievements, experience the satisfaction of

                 their labors and the joy of their

                 accomplishments, eager to experience the

                 challenges of new experiences as they face a

                 challenging world with bright promise; now,

                 therefore, be it

                            "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

                 Body pause in its deliberations to honor the

                 valedictorians of the 40th Senate District, in

                 recognition of their outstanding academic

                 accomplishments, at a celebration to be held

                 at the State Capitol on June 7, 2000; and be

                 it further

                            "RESOLVED, That copies of this

                 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

                 to the aforementioned valedictorians."

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

                 Madam Speaker.  I know that was -- Madam

                 President and Madam Speaker.





                                                          4367



                            That was a lengthy resolution, but

                 I thought it was appropriate to take the time

                 to mention the 39 students that are up here in

                 our gallery who have achieved valedictorian

                 status in our school districts throughout the

                 five counties of the 40th Senate district.

                 Accompanying them are parents, principals,

                 superintendents.

                            And we have a very special day

                 planned for them.  We'll be doing an education

                 forum, which the Lieutenant Governor will

                 attend, as well as university presidents and

                 people from the State of New York, telling

                 them of the opportunities, holding them in

                 high esteem.  Then we're going to have a pizza

                 party and a tour.

                            And I just want to say real briefly

                 that you are the best of the best, that this

                 Senate and this Legislature puts a high value

                 on excellent in education and academic

                 achievement.  And we would hope that you would

                 go on to higher education, which I'm sure many

                 of you will be, if not all of you.

                            And we ask that you give back to

                 this great country some of the opportunities





                                                          4368



                 that it gave to you, and you would think about

                 perhaps living here and coming back to work

                 here.  Thank you very much.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Bonacic.

                            For the record, this resolution was

                 adopted yesterday, June 6, the year 2000.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there are ten privileged resolutions at the

                 desk.  Could we have the titles read and move

                 for their immediate adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Bonacic, Legislative Resolution Number 4627,

                 commending Dr. Albert J. Gruner upon the

                 occasion of his designation for special honor

                 by the Gateway Foundation on Sunday, June 11,

                 2000.

                            By Senator Bonacic, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4628, congratulating Daniel

                 E. Johnson upon the occasion of receiving the

                 distinguished rank of Eagle Scout, the most





                                                          4369



                 prestigious of Scouting honors, on June 11,

                 2000, at Gold Mountain Resort.

                            By Senator Larkin, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4629, congratulating Edward

                 T. Palange III upon the occasion of receiving

                 the distinguished rank of Eagle Scout, the

                 most prestigious of Scouting honors, on

                 June 11, 2000.

                            By Senator Larkin, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4630, congratulating Paul R.

                 Wolf upon the occasion of receiving the

                 distinguished rank of Eagle Scout, the most

                 prestigious of Scouting honors, on June 11,

                 2000.

                            By Senator Larkin, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4631, congratulating Joseph

                 A. Massari upon the occasion of receiving the

                 distinguished rank of Eagle Scout, the most

                 prestigious of Scouting honors, on June 11,

                 2000.

                            By Senator Larkin, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4632, congratulating Kevin

                 E. Mahoney upon the occasion of receiving the

                 distinguished rank of Eagle Scout, the most

                 prestigious of Scouting honors, on June 11,





                                                          4370



                 2000.

                            By Senator Skelos, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4655, honoring Darius

                 Schwartz upon the occasion of his designation

                 as recipient of the "Alumnus of the Year"

                 Award by the Hebrew Academy of Nassau County.

                            By Senator Skelos, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4656, commending Dr. Eric

                 Moskow upon the occasion of his selection as

                 Guest of Honor at the Hebrew Academy of Nassau

                 County's 47th Annual Journal Gala.

                            By Senator Skelos, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4657, honoring Lee and Andre

                 Lichtman upon the occasion of their

                 designation as recipients of the "Grandparents

                 of the Year" Award by the Hebrew Academy of

                 Nassau County.

                            And by Senator Meier, Legislative

                 Resolution Number 4658, honoring Mary Ann Lum

                 Nelson upon the occasion of her retirement as

                 Town Clerk of the Town of Webb, New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the resolutions.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")





                                                          4371



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 resolutions are adopted.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could go

                 to the noncontroversial calendar at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 195, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6374, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to increasing penalties.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.





                                                          4372



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 203, by Senator Libous, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 300, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

                 Assembly Print Number 7162A, an act to amend

                 the Family Court Act, in relation to

                 telephonic, audiovisual or electronic

                 testimony.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          4373



                 485, by Senator Libous, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 505, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

                 Assembly Print Number 10421, an act to amend

                 the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law, in

                 relation to the presumption of death from

                 absence.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 551, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6761, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

                 to orders of restitution.





                                                          4374



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 653, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3441, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to adjournment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          4375



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 695, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 24, an

                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to subjecting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 709, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 7139A, an

                 act to authorize the City of Norwich in the

                 County of Chenango.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          4376



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 761, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7489, an

                 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in

                 relation to parents or other persons.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 765, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7725A, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act and the

                 Domestic Relations Law, in relation to the

                 appointment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          4377



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 770, by Member of the Assembly DiNapoli,

                 Assembly Print Number 7387, an act to amend

                 the Environmental Conservation Law, in

                 relation to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 826, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,





                                                          4378



                 Assembly Print Number 8561B, an act to amend

                 the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in relation

                 to the use of prior testimony.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 842, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3903, an

                 act to amend -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 875, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly John, Assembly Print Number

                 9723B, an act to amend the Executive Law, in

                 relation to increasing.





                                                          4379



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in one year.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 897, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6507A,

                 an act to amend the Private Housing Finance

                 Law, in relation to increasing the bonding

                 authority.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          4380



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 898, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 7126, an

                 act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law,

                 in relation to the powers.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 901, substituted earlier today by the Assembly

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number

                 10814A, an act to amend the Private Housing

                 Finance Law, in relation to loans.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          4381



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 902, substituted earlier today by the Assembly

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number

                 10815A, an act to amend the Private Housing

                 Finance Law, in relation to participation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 943, by Member of the Assembly Gunther,

                 Assembly Print Number 6404A, an act to amend

                 the Town Law and the Not-for-Profit

                 Corporation Law, in relation to the

                 eligibility.





                                                          4382



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 988, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4458C, an

                 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law and the State Finance Law, in relation to

                 providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          4383



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1028, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6945A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to registration lists.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1033, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4515B,

                 an act -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1262, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6821, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,

                 in relation to the time to take an appeal.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1270, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7645,

                 an act to amend -





                                                          4384



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1279, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1170A, an

                 act to amend the Education Law and the

                 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to the

                 appointment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 16.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1280, by Senator Breslin, Senate Print 1739,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the





                                                          4385



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1281, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2010,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 possession of stolen motor vehicles.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          4386



                 1282, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3195B,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to information.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1283, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Weinstein, Assembly Print Number

                 7265D, an act to amend the Estates, Powers and

                 Trusts Law, in relation to granting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1284, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4362B,

                 an act to amend the Surrogate's Court

                 Procedure Act, in relation to the appointment.





                                                          4387



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1285, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4594, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1286, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4772A,

                 an act in relation to granting retroactive

                 membership.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is





                                                          4388



                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1287, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 4999B,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law and the

                 Public Health Law, in relation to the

                 confidentiality.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          4389



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1288, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6327, an

                 act to amend the Correction Law and the

                 Executive Law, in relation to making sex

                 offender registry information available.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1289, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6383A, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 including a public place.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.





                                                          4390



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1290, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6398, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to the designation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1291, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 6466A, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law and the





                                                          4391



                 Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to

                 providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1292, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6480A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to permissible use of school grounds.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 July.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.





                                                          4392



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1293, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Connelly, Assembly Print Number

                 9539, an act to amend the Education Law, in

                 relation to the eligibility.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1295, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6733A,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation

                 to qualifications of persons.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          4393



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1297, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6827A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to registering and operating optical stores.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1298, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7010, an

                 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to

                 establishment of dedicated project accounts.





                                                          4394



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1299, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7312,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

                 to expanding.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          4395



                 1300, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7388, an

                 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law, in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1301, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 7562A, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1302, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7647A,

                 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel





                                                          4396



                 Wagering and Breeding Law, in relation to

                 subjecting real property.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1303, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print

                 7873, an act in relation to legalizing,

                 validating, ratifying and confirming certain

                 acts and proceedings.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          4397



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1304, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 7890,

                 an act to authorize the Dormitory Authority to

                 sell or lease certain land.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1305, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 7904, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 obscene sexual performance.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          4398



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1306, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7916, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 the community services block grant program.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1307, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7922, an

                 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation

                 to information.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.





                                                          4399



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1308, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 7925,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Law, in

                 relation to discrimination against children.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1309, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7928, an

                 act to amend Chapter 812 of the Laws of 1942

                 constituting the Erie County Tax Act.





                                                          4400



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect September 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1310, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7932, an

                 act to amend Chapter 831 of the Laws of 1981

                 amending the Labor Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          4401



                 1311, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7933, an

                 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law and

                 Chapter 729 of the Laws of 1993.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1312, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7934, an

                 act to amend Chapter 491 of the Laws of 1993.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1313, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 7940,

                 an act in relation to authorizing the Village

                 of East Hills, County of Nassau.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.





                                                          4402



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1314, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7944,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to notification.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1315, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1638B,





                                                          4403



                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 the crime of partial birth abortion.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay the bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1316, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4691A,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law and the

                 Executive Law, in relation to hate crimes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            Senator Kuhl, that completes the

                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Madam President,

                 may we now return to the order of motions and

                 resolutions.

                            And I believe that there was a

                 Resolution Number 4499, which was passed on

                 the 1st of June, by Senator Libous.  And I'd

                 like to have that read in its entirety at this

                 time.





                                                          4404



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Motions

                 and resolutions.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Libous, Legislative Resolution Number 4499,

                 memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to

                 proclaim Wednesday, June 7, 2000, as

                 Legislative Disability Awareness Day in the

                 State of New York.

                            "WHEREAS, The New York State Senate

                 Select Committee on the Disabled, in

                 conjunction with the New York State Assembly

                 Task Force on People with Disabilities, is

                 sponsoring the 20th annual Legislative

                 Disability Awareness Day; and

                            "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

                 Legislative Body that persons with

                 disabilities merit our recognition as they

                 realize the goals of inclusion and equality in

                 our communities and society at large; and

                            "WHEREAS, It is the intent of this

                 Legislative Body to recognize persons with

                 disabilities, accentuating in turn the benefit

                 to New York State of their contributions to

                 our economic, educational and social growth;





                                                          4405



                 and

                            "WHEREAS, Legislative Disability

                 Awareness Day so clearly labors for the

                 positive and salutary definition of the

                 communities of the State of New York; and

                            "WHEREAS, Legislative Disability

                 Awareness Day will conclude with this

                 Legislative Body considering legislation

                 significant to persons with disabilities; and

                            "WHEREAS, Legislative Disability

                 Awareness Day provides individuals with an

                 opportunity to acknowledge and understand the

                 legislative process; now, therefore, be it

                            "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

                 Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize

                 Governor George E. Pataki to proclaim

                 Wednesday, June 7, 2000, as Legislative

                 Disability Awareness Day in the State of New

                 York, fully confident that such procedure

                 mirrors our shared commitment to the

                 efflorescence of human dignity; and be it

                 further

                            "RESOLVED, That copies of this

                 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

                 to the Honorable George E. Pataki, Governor of





                                                          4406



                 the State of New York, and to selected

                 representatives of persons with disabilities."

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  Would you recognize Senator Spano

                 to speak on the resolution, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Thank you very

                 much, Madam President.

                            It's my pleasure today to

                 acknowledge the fact that today marks the 20th

                 anniversary celebration of the Legislative

                 Disability Awareness Day here at the State

                 Capitol.  And on behalf of my colleague

                 Senator Libous, it is my pleasure to thank the

                 members of the Senate who are continuing to

                 increase the awareness of the needs of people

                 with disabilities in this state.

                            There are some 35 organizations

                 from across the state who are here to display

                 some information about the services they

                 provide for people with disabilities.  And I

                 hope that if you have an opportunity to visit





                                                          4407



                 the third floor of the LOB, you'll take a look

                 at some of their services.

                            In session today we'll be passing a

                 package of disability-related bills that

                 include bills that increase opportunities and

                 increase the quality of life for people with

                 disabilities.

                            The resolution that was previously

                 read, I would ask, Madam President, that if

                 all of the members of the Senate would like to

                 be part of that resolution, that with the

                 concurrence of the Majority and Minority

                 Leaders that we allow that to happen.

                            We have a gentleman here from

                 Senator Hoffman's district, who was honored as

                 a special guest for Legislative Disability

                 Awareness Day.  And I would like to yield to

                 Senator Hoffmann to give her an opportunity to

                 introduce and say a few words about her

                 special guest here today.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Senator Spano.





                                                          4408



                            And I appreciate Senator Libous's

                 willingness to give this very, very important

                 day the attention that it deserves and to

                 allow us to honor some wonderful people from

                 our own districts.

                            And Senator Libous would be here if

                 he did not have to leave very suddenly with

                 the Governor to be at an important event in

                 Binghamton today.  And Senator Spano has taken

                 over the role, and did a lovely job for us at

                 the awards ceremony downstairs.

                            But it's my distinct honor and

                 pleasure to be able to introduce to my

                 colleagues a good friend and a community

                 activist without parallel.  Mr. Jim Babel, who

                 is in the back of the Senate chamber, has been

                 one of those exemplary individuals who shows

                 that there are in fact no limitations to a

                 person who is determined to make a

                 difference -- not only for himself, not only

                 for people with disabilities, but for the

                 larger community.

                            And he has been in the forefront of

                 an organization called Disabled In Action in

                 the Syracuse community that provides guidance





                                                          4409



                 and creates public pressure and support for

                 the kind of changes that make life easier for

                 people with a disability.

                            Regardless of what type of

                 disability it is, this organization is there

                 to provide the kind of pressure and support

                 and guidance for those of us in policy-making

                 positions so that we can have a better

                 understanding ourselves and make the pressure

                 that they feel lessen somewhat.

                            We hope that in years to come,

                 these issues will all have resolved

                 themselves -- we will have a simple

                 understanding of the importance of curb cuts,

                 we will all recognize where ramping is

                 necessary, and it will just be a fact of life.

                 But we're still in the infancy of that type of

                 awareness.  And it requires, unfortunately, a

                 great deal of public advocacy.

                            And Jim Babel is right now the

                 president of the board of Disabled In Action

                 in greater Syracuse, and he's served in that

                 organization since 1985.

                            He is also one of the shining

                 lights of an organization called the Syracuse





                                                          4410



                 Flyers.  And this is one of those famous

                 wheelchair basketball teams that takes on

                 people with and without disabilities and,

                 again, demonstrates the good humor as well as

                 the tenacity of this very special individual

                 and many of his friends who are also in

                 wheelchairs and have other disabilities.

                            So the Governor is to be commended

                 for acknowledging this day and for allowing us

                 the opportunity to bring to Albany special

                 individuals who help all of us become more

                 sensitive to the needs of the disabled

                 community.

                            Jim, we're very proud to have you

                 here.  We welcome you to the Senate chamber

                 today.

                            Thank you, Madam President, for

                 allowing us this opportunity in a very busy

                 day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Hoffmann.

                            Senator DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.

                 Senator Hoffmann has really said it all about

                 Jim.





                                                          4411



                            I've known Jim for many, many

                 years, since I was in the City Council in

                 political office.  And when Larraine said that

                 he's an activist, that is an understatement.

                 When he gets an issue that he's got

                 involvement in, he takes it to the point of

                 making sure that the issue is not only

                 discussed but it gets a result.

                            So, Jim, I want to congratulate you

                 as well.  Keep up your great work, on behalf

                 of not only yourself but all people with

                 disabilities.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator DeFrancisco.

                            Senator Kuhl, shall we open up this

                 resolution for sponsorship by the entire

                 Senate?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Madam President,

                 this resolution was previously adopted, as I

                 had previously mentioned, on the 1st.  And I

                 believe everybody is on it.

                            But I will direct that everybody be

                 put on it if they are not on it, unless they

                 indicate to the desk that in fact they don't





                                                          4412



                 wish to be on it.

                            So I think that takes care of the

                 matter.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Kuhl.  The resolution will be

                 open for any previous sponsorship that has not

                 already done so.  If you don't wish to be so,

                 please notify the desk.

                            For the record, this resolution was

                 previously adopted on June 1, the year 2000.

                            Senator Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Madam President,

                 may we now have the controversial reading of

                 the calendar.  But may we take up first

                 Calendar Number 203, followed by Calendar

                 Number 485, and then to be followed by

                 Calendar Number 1033, in that order, and then

                 resume the natural order.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Kuhl.

                            The Secretary will read Calendar

                 203.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 203, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2102A, an

                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and the





                                                          4413



                 Executive Law, in relation to requiring

                 providers of services.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Spano, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Right now the

                 Commission on Quality of Care for the Disabled

                 has the mandate to review programs for people

                 with disabilities across the state.

                            What this bill would do, it would

                 expand the scope of the Commission on the

                 Quality of Care to include those who are blind

                 or visually handicapped.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Read the last

                 section.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in





                                                          4414



                 the negative on Calendar Number 203 are

                 Senators Duane, Montgomery, and Schneiderman.

                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 3.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 485, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4913, an

                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in

                 relation to directing the State Commission on

                 Quality of Care.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1033, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4515B,

                 an act in relation to enacting the Blind

                 Students' Literacy Rights and Education Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the





                                                          4415



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  To explain my vote, Madam

                 President.

                            Today is, as Senator Spano pointed

                 out, Disability Awareness Day, sponsored by

                 Senator Tom Libous.  And I just want to

                 briefly point out -- I know that many of the

                 advocates are here today -- that this bill,

                 the Braille Students' Literacy Rights and

                 Education Act, will ensure that Braille

                 education is made available to the visually

                 impaired and deaf-blind students.

                            This bill was negotiated between

                 the Office of Children and Family Services,

                 the Commission for the Blind and Visually

                 Handicapped, and the State Education

                 Department.





                                                          4416



                            And I think it's only fitting that

                 I point out two individuals, Tom Robertson, of

                 the Commission for the Blind and Visually

                 Handicapped, the director, and the deputy

                 director, Mr. Brian Daniels, for all of their

                 assistance with this bill.

                            This bill has a great deal of

                 support out there by the National Federation

                 for the Blind, the American Council for the

                 Blind in New York, the Independent Living

                 Council, the State Rehab Council, and

                 Industries for the Blind of New York State.

                            And I just want to thank also my

                 Assembly colleague, Assemblyman Weisenberg,

                 for his support.

                            And, Madam President, this I

                 believe is one bill which will see the

                 Governor's signature this year.

                            Thank you very much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Maziarz will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    No, Madam





                                                          4417



                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you very much, Senator Farley.

                            Results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Can we have some order in the

                 chamber, please.

                            The Secretary will read in regular

                 order.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 842, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3903, an

                 act to amend the Public Service Law, in

                 relation to the elimination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Wright, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            The bill eliminates the requirement

                 that's currently contained in the law that the





                                                          4418



                 Public Service Commission conduct an audit on

                 an every-five-year basis.  This eliminates the

                 five-year requirement, leaves it to the

                 discretion of the Public Service Commission as

                 necessary.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Coppola.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Madam

                 President, I'd like to ask the sponsor of this

                 bill a couple of questions, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Coppola, would you wait for just one moment.

                            Can we have some order in the

                 chamber, please.  It's extremely noisy.

                            Thank you, Senator Wright.  An

                 explanation has been requested for answers.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Madam Chairman,

                 the explanation was provided.  I believe I'm

                 responding to questions at this point.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Please

                 do so.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Senator, are you aware of the list

                 of towns and municipalities that have been





                                                          4419



                 overcharged by the company that you're

                 requesting to now do away with auditing?

                            For example, I have the Alexandria

                 School, the Central School, Brunswick School,

                 the Buffalo Board of Education, the Buffalo

                 Municipal Housing Authority, the Buffalo Sewer

                 Authority, the City of Buffalo, the City of

                 Cohoes, the City of Fulton, the City of

                 Niagara Falls, the City of North Tonawanda,

                 the City of Oneida Water District, the City of

                 Oswego, the City of Syracuse, the City of

                 Utica, Delaware, Erie County, Fonda-Fulton

                 Central Schools, Geneseo, Greenwich, Greater

                 Amsterdam School, Herkimer County BOCES.

                            Just recently, here in Albany -

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    In response to

                 the question, Senator, no, I am not aware of

                 that list.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Well, I'm very

                 concerned that if we do away with the

                 monitoring of this company requested by the

                 attorneys who represent Niagara Mohawk, that

                 we will be lax in our duties to the ratepayers

                 out there across their service territory.

                            We have found just three months ago





                                                          4420



                 that they wrote a check out, because I found

                 them overcharging the City of Buffalo over

                 $2 million, with phantom streetlights of 1500

                 that we were being charged for.

                            And I feel, Senator, and I'm only

                 appealing to you, that the monitoring and the

                 auditing of this company is most important.

                 And to do away with it would be, you know,

                 giving them a leeway out there of more

                 mismanagement than they have been performing

                 over the past several years.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Senator, let me

                 correct a couple of assumptions you've made.

                            Number one, this bill is not at the

                 request of any company.  And my assumption is

                 that you're implying it's at the request of a

                 utility.  It is not.  It has been submitted

                 and introduced at the request of the

                 Department of Public Service, the Public

                 Service Commission of the State of New York,

                 relative to one of their procedures.

                            It is, in fact, supported by a law

                 firm that represents one of the utilities -

                 Niagara Mohawk, in this case -- as they have

                 advanced a memorandum of support.  There's a





                                                          4421



                 clear difference and distinction, I believe,

                 in that.

                            Secondly, this does not in any way,

                 shape, or fashion limit the audit power or the

                 oversight responsibilities of the Public

                 Service Commission.  It simply provides them

                 the necessary flexibility to address it.

                            Were we to have a situation as

                 you've related, where you've identified a

                 problem, simply referring that problem and

                 necessary documentation to the Public Service

                 Commission could result, and in fact I believe

                 would result, in an audit being performed if

                 there were sufficient documentation to present

                 and warrant that audit.

                            I think that's a legitimate

                 oversight function of the Public Service

                 Commission.  This bill in no way diminishes

                 that and in no way restricts the ability of

                 the Public Service Commission to conduct hair

                 oversight.

                            It simply reflecting the changing

                 reality of the restructuring of the utility

                 industry and the energy field, and provides

                 for greater flexibility so that the Public





                                                          4422



                 Service Commission has the capability of

                 responding in a timely and appropriate

                 fashion.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Madam Chairman,

                 through you, please, may I ask another

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Wright, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam Chairman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    What is the

                 manpower that the Public Service Commission

                 has to do the auditing, Senator?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I'm not aware of

                 the specific number of staff that is assigned

                 to that function.  Current law provides them

                 the opportunity to utilize their own staff or,

                 in turn, to contract outside staff.

                            In all instances, the costs are

                 borne by the utilities as opposed to

                 taxpayers.  And that's why I believe you see

                 the kind of support that there is for

                 eliminating a mandatory requirement, because





                                                          4423



                 that in turn simply generates a cost that is

                 borne by the ratepayers.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Senator, my

                 understanding is that the Public Service

                 Commission does not have sufficient manpower

                 to do the auditing, especially with other

                 companies in New York State.

                            But in particular, this company

                 needs to be audited.  And I think that if we

                 do away with the auditing with an outside

                 firm, more mismanagement will take place like

                 it has in the past.

                            I have stated to you over fifty,

                 fifty towns and municipalities have been

                 overcharged.  And it was because of our

                 findings that this took place.  If we now

                 allow the Public Service Commission to monitor

                 this, they will get away with overcharging

                 throughout their service territory.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Was that a

                 question, Senator?  I believe it was a

                 statement.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    No, I just

                 wanted to make sure and highlight, Senator,

                 because you are pushing the bill.





                                                          4424



                            And I think it's so important that

                 we keep these restrictions out there.  To do

                 away with these restrictions, more

                 mismanagement is going to happen, more things

                 are going to happen to the ratepayers across

                 that territory.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Well, once

                 again, Senator, I will reinforce that we are

                 not in any way, shape, or fashion eliminating

                 the authority, responsibility, or function of

                 the Public Service Commission as it relates to

                 audit functions, as it relates to management

                 oversight, as it relates to their

                 investigatory powers relative to the conduct

                 or operation of those utilities.

                            This certainly eliminates a

                 provision that says it must be done every five

                 years.  That is all.  I believe that's part of

                 flexibility.  That's part of a responsibility.

                            In terms of the examples that you

                 cite, simply making that information available

                 to the Public Service Commission, I'm sure it

                 will be dealt with in an appropriate fashion

                 by the Public Service Commission.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Madam





                                                          4425



                 President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Coppola, on the bill.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    To make the

                 Public Service Commission aware of this -

                 they are aware of it.  They handled each and

                 every one of these cases when it was brought

                 to their attention.

                            The fact of the matter is they do

                 not have the manpower.  The fact of the matter

                 is this company overcharged the city mission

                 over a hundred thousand dollars, which is

                 scandalous.  And we found that.  The fact of

                 the matter is they're charging all of the

                 religious organizations in the City of

                 Buffalo, they're overcharging.  The fact of

                 the matter is the people who depend on cheap

                 power, they've hurt them dramatically.

                            And it would be scandalous if we

                 passed this bill, because we will be letting

                 them get away with more mismanagement

                 throughout the service territory.  The fact is

                 they overcharged the city mission, they

                 overcharged all non-profits in the City in

                 Buffalo.  They've overcharged here in Albany





                                                          4426



                 almost $4 million.  And that ought to come to

                 light.

                            So, Senator, I would think and hope

                 that you would table this bill and discuss

                 this with your company and the attorneys and

                 with the Public Service Commission and let us

                 know what kind of manpower does the Public

                 Service Commission have to audit all of these

                 companies.

                            To do away with this will continue

                 the mismanagement.  It will hurt all of the

                 people in Western New York.  I cast my vote in

                 the no, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  You want to call the last section

                 on this bill?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          4427



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 842 are

                 Senators Coppola, Duane, Gentile, Gonzalez,

                 Hevesi, Kruger, Lachman, Onorato, Oppenheimer,

                 Paterson, Rosado, Santiago, A. Smith,

                 Stachowski, Stavisky.  Also Senator Connor.

                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 16.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  There will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Senate Finance Committee in the

                 Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate

                 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 in regular order.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1028, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6945A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to registration lists.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.





                                                          4428



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Trunzo, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Madam President,

                 this bill would prohibit the commissioner of

                 motor vehicles from selling vehicle

                 registration lists and bulk title information,

                 except in connection with motor vehicle safety

                 products and service communications -- which

                 would include the issuance of a manufacturer's

                 warranty, safety recall, or similar notices -

                 for Motor Vehicle statistical compilation

                 purposes, customer satisfaction and other

                 survey research related to the use and

                 ownership of motor vehicles, and the

                 verification of a vehicle's title status or to

                 carry out the purpose of the federal

                 Anti-Car-Theft Act of 1992.

                            That's what this bill does, it just

                 prohibits the commissioner from selling lists

                 except in those cases.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if the sponsor would yield for a

                 question.





                                                          4429



                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Trunzo, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I

                 noticed that the United States Supreme Court,

                 in a North Carolina case last fall, criticized

                 a lot of the policies of the motor vehicle

                 department in North Carolina by listing a

                 number of pieces of information that could not

                 be circulated without the express written

                 consent of the consumer.

                            Now, what we have in this

                 legislation, or what we are doing right now in

                 this state, is we're finding all of the things

                 that the court didn't mention -- accident

                 reports, for example -- and we're going ahead

                 and doing it, even though I would say that the

                 Supreme Court decision could be regarded as

                 dicta and that an interpretation of it would

                 certainly be that we shouldn't be doing this.

                            Our own Department of Motor

                 Vehicles considered abandoning the





                                                          4430



                 distribution of information as a protection to

                 the consumer, and has now kind of changed its

                 mind -- with the Commissioner only really

                 giving as an example in testimony before a

                 hearing that, you know, it's not on the

                 Supreme Court's list, so we can go ahead and

                 do it.

                            And I don't know if that's really

                 the best thing that we should be doing at this

                 time.

                            What information do you have that

                 passing this legislation would be anything

                 other than a precursor to a suit filed against

                 our own law and having it eventually struck

                 down by a federal court?

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Is that a

                 question, Senator?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    As far as we are

                 concerned, we believe that this piece of

                 legislation will meet those federal

                 qualifications.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I'm sorry,





                                                          4431



                 Madam President, I had trouble hearing Senator

                 Trunzo.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    What I said,

                 Senator Paterson, is that we believe that this

                 piece of legislation we're doing here will

                 meet the federal qualifications that were

                 pointed out, that you have just recently

                 pointed out.

                            And by the way, it does not affect

                 any contract that is currently -- that the

                 Department of Motor Vehicles currently has

                 entered into prior to the adoption of this

                 legislation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I'm not in any way questioning the

                 integrity of the sponsor, who I have the

                 highest regard for, not only as a person but

                 as a legislator.  I didn't think anybody would

                 offer any legislation where there was any

                 doubt that it met the federal guidelines and

                 would be constitutional.





                                                          4432



                            What I'm trying to determine is

                 based on the information I gave about the

                 Supreme Court decision, how do you explain to

                 consumers that just because we have a couple

                 of other areas that the Court didn't address,

                 that those areas were not within the

                 contemplation of what the Court's spirit was

                 when they arrived at the decision last fall?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson, am I to believe that that request

                 was directed at Senator Trunzo, or is that

                 merely a statement?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    No, I asked it

                 through the chair as a question, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Senator Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Madam President,

                 these items that we have here are legitimate

                 safety factors that have been developed as a

                 result of that federal legislation, and

                 basically is what we're trying to put into our

                 own law.

                            It's part of a privacy situation





                                                          4433



                 which, again, the Department of Motor Vehicles

                 has been selling their lists and have done -

                 you know, and many people have been annoyed

                 with phone calls and what have you from all

                 types of vendors based on the lists that have

                 been sold by the Department of Motor Vehicles.

                            And we're trying to restrain that

                 and maintain privacy for the consumers

                 themselves except in these specific cases.

                            And we feel that this applies and

                 will take its effect with the federal law that

                 had been -- the federal decision that has been

                 reached.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just on the

                 bill, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I understand

                 the initial purpose for which Senator Trunzo





                                                          4434



                 and, I gather, the Senate Majority are

                 carrying this bill.  Certainly we have

                 encouraged our departments to accelerate

                 revenues and increase revenues through

                 reasonable measures to enhance cash coming

                 into the departments.

                            But this bill, in my judgment, is a

                 mistake.  And the reason for it is very

                 simple.  The Department of Motor Vehicles has

                 a whole truckload, frankly, of information

                 about individuals, of identifying information

                 about characteristics of their automobile

                 habits, their purchasing habits, their motor

                 safety records, and really scads of

                 information, Madam President.

                            And it seems to me that before any

                 of that information is released, we should get

                 the consent of the consumer.  And we don't do

                 that now.

                            Currently in the reregistration of

                 a motor vehicle there is a box at the bottom

                 of the registration that allows people to

                 decide whether their information can be

                 disclosed without further permission or not.

                 And quite frankly, I've had counsel read that





                                                          4435



                 section of the reregistration form, and it's

                 eminently confusing.  You can't tell whether

                 you're supposed to opt in or opt out.  You

                 don't know what the effect of a yes answer to

                 the question is with respect to your privacy.

                            We, I believe, in this Legislature

                 need to come to grips with the privacy issues

                 that are included with the disclosure of this

                 type of information.

                            I would strongly suggest that we go

                 to a system which is becoming better

                 recognized throughout the nation, the opt-in

                 system.  That the only way you can release the

                 information is to opt in, to directly exercise

                 your choice to allow information of any type

                 that's in the possession of government to be

                 available to anyone anywhere.  The only way to

                 do that is if you affirmatively decide that

                 you want to have it available.

                            I know that that may go slightly

                 beyond the context of this proposal, but I see

                 this bill as selling information to the

                 highest bidder.  That information will involve

                 our consumers, our taxpayers, our residents.

                 I don't think that we should do that unless





                                                          4436



                 they specifically opt in.

                            I'd point out the bill is also

                 defective, in my judgment, because while it

                 includes a civil remedy or a civil penalty, it

                 appears to me that that penalty would only be

                 paid from the violator to the government, to

                 the Department of Motor Vehicles, for breach

                 of the contract between the buyer of the

                 information and the Department of Motor

                 Vehicles.

                            And there's no civil remedy for the

                 person whose privacy is violated to directly

                 seek redress in the courts.  So we'll have the

                 Department of Motor Vehicles fining the

                 recipient of the information, but the poor

                 person whose privacy has been violated has no

                 remedy.

                            I would suggest, Madam President,

                 that this approach is counter to the trend in

                 this nation, which is that we should -- we, as

                 government, should protect people's privacy

                 and not allow any information about them to be

                 released unless they specifically choose

                 beforehand to have it released.

                            I'm going to vote against this





                                                          4437



                 bill, and urge my colleagues to do likewise.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1028 are

                 Senators Breslin, Connor, Coppola, Dollinger,

                 Duane, Gentile, Morahan, Onorato, Padavan,

                 Paterson, Schneiderman, M. Smith, and Senator

                 Stavisky.  Ayes, 44.  Nays, 13.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    I'd like to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 842,

                 Senate Bill 3903.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, you will be so recorded.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1304,





                                                          4438



                 by Senator Padavan.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I would also request

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar 842.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, you will be so recorded.

                            The Secretary will read Calendar

                 Number 1304.

                            Senator Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes,

                 Madam President.  I also would ask unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative for

                 Calendar Number 842.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So

                 recorded.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1304, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 7890,

                 an act to authorize the Dormitory Authority to

                 sell or lease certain land.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          4439



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            This is a bill that would authorize

                 a community organization, the Malankara

                 Orthodox Syrian Church, to acquire, through

                 negotiation and purchase, a certain portion of

                 surplus land on the grounds of Creedmoor State

                 Hospital, to be used for a youth and family

                 center.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Regular order.  The Secretary will





                                                          4440



                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1262, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6821, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,

                 in relation to the time to take an appeal.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could withdraw the roll call.  An

                 explanation has been requested.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will withdraw the roll call.  An

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Senator

                 Paterson, I'd be delighted to answer your

                 question.  And I think both of us should be

                 humble that we are debating a bill with so





                                                          4441



                 many distinguished jurists in the gallery and

                 future judges, that certainly they will be

                 impressed by the caliber of this debate on

                 such an important issue.

                            This bill would provide that an

                 order of judgment is appealable immediately

                 upon the signing date the order or judgment is

                 signed by the judge.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if the sponsor would yield for a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Senator Skelos, do you yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I'm wondering when the 30-day

                 period that allows for the appeal period

                 begins to run if we're going to allow the

                 appeals before the order is actually entered.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    The problem that

                 exists, Senator Paterson, with some attorneys,





                                                          4442



                 they'll receive a judgment and basically hold

                 the order, not enter it for a long time.  And

                 a losing party sometimes has to hang out there

                 until they can take the appeal.

                            All this does, it says once the

                 appellant-to-be finds out that the judgment or

                 order has been signed, they could commence an

                 appeal.  That is all the legislation does.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if the Senator would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    But we do have

                 a period right now, 30 days, upon which

                 expiration you cannot file an appeal.  So I'm

                 trying to figure out if -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    That does not

                 change.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    That does not





                                                          4443



                 change?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So when does

                 it expire?  Does it expire prior to the -

                 see, I'm saying you might have a situation

                 where the appeal has expired before the

                 judgment was even entered.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    It's when the

                 person has signed, when the judgment or order

                 is signed and the appellant has notice of

                 that, he or she could commence the appeal at

                 that time.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So in other

                 words, the -- I'm a little confused -- the

                 period for the appeal could now be longer than

                 30 days?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Under existing

                 law, the order has to be signed, entered and

                 served.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    And that's

                 when the -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Right.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    -- time lapse

                 begins.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Right.





                                                          4444



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So since we're

                 allowing for the appeal prior to that, the

                 appeal period is now longer than 30 days.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Maybe we need

                 one of those jurists to come down here and

                 help alleviate my confusion.

                            Because what I thought I heard

                 Senator Skelos say is that for -- many times

                 there is an elongated process by which the

                 judgment is not entered.  And if that's the

                 case, this is why the Senator would like to

                 have the appeal process begin.

                            And I can understand that.  That

                 makes perfect sense.  But my question is if

                 the appeal process is going to begin before

                 the judgment is actually entered, then it is

                 possible that the date for the appeal could

                 expire before the judgment was actually

                 entered.

                            And that's why my question is, how

                 could we be allowing that to happen where

                 someone's right to an appeal has expired

                 before the judgment against them has even been

                 entered?  That's my question.





                                                          4445



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    May I be

                 heard on that issue?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Please.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I had the

                 same confusion when I first read it.  But I

                 think what happened -- what it is is that -

                 the regular rule is that the appeal expires 30

                 days after the filing and service of an order.

                 That's not going to change.

                            But what Senator Skelos' bill is

                 saying -- so the expiration date will always

                 be 30 days after the service and filing of the

                 order.  What Senator Skelos' bill would do, in

                 addition to that, you could commence the

                 appeal before that.  Namely, when the order

                 has been signed.

                            And the concept is that normally

                 the winning party signs the order or gets the

                 order written and prepared, and it goes back

                 to that individual.  Sometimes they hold it

                 indefinitely.  So it's just an additional





                                                          4446



                 ability to file early.  It doesn't change the

                 end date of the time that you've got to

                 appeal.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator DeFrancisco would yield

                 for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, will you yield?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I guess I

                 got myself into this.

                            But I think that was the intent of

                 the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I

                 understood everything you said.  So I would

                 like you to answer this question.

                            Then the period for which you have

                 an appeal could now be longer than 30 days?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, it

                 could.  But it could never -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay, that's

                 fine.





                                                          4447



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes,

                 because it could start earlier.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I understand

                 that.

                            But that's not the answer that

                 Senator Skelos gave me.  He said the appeal

                 process was still 30 days.  So -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    From the notice

                 of entering.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    From the

                 notice, absolutely.

                            But my question is that if we're

                 allowing appeals to start before the notice,

                 then that time period that a person has to

                 file the appeal is now longer.  Do we all

                 agree about that?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I agree.  I

                 don't know about everybody else.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, I do.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    You both

                 agree.  All right, now we're getting started

                 here.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson, are you still directing your





                                                          4448



                 question to Senator DeFrancisco or to Senator

                 Skelos?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I'm now addressing my question to

                 Senator Skelos.  Unless you would like to join

                 the discussion in -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Not at

                 all.  Thank you very much.

                            Senator Skelos, will you yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            The Senator yields, Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, now I would like to know about the

                 cross-appeal process.  In other words, when is

                 the time appropriate -- when is it seasonable

                 for there to be a cross appeal?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    The legislation

                 doesn't affect cross-appeals.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I guess my

                 question, Madam President, is then again, is

                 the cross-appeal process beginning at the time

                 of service or at the time of the signing of





                                                          4449



                 the order, the entry of the order?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Service.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Upon the

                 service, thank you.

                            I have one further question at this

                 time for Senator Skelos, if he would be kind

                 enough to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos, will you continue to yield?

                            The Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    What I think

                 is confusing about this legislation, Madam

                 President, is that on one hand we've kind of

                 established a kind of gray area, because what

                 you could have sometimes is that you have

                 parties who are having appeals served on them

                 before there's even a judgment in this regard.

                            I understand totally what Senator

                 Skelos is trying to do.  Because we have had

                 this situation sometimes, as he described,

                 where the -- one of the parties just has to

                 kind of hang around and wait for an order to

                 actually be entered.

                            But in some respects, I find the

                 legislation contradictory, because on one hand





                                                          4450



                 we're not really very specific about what

                 those time periods should be, and then on the

                 other hand we're very specific about what

                 happens when the order is entered.

                            So my question to the Senator is,

                 don't you think that it might be more helpful

                 if we just put a time period on what time the

                 orders need to be entered?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Good suggestion,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            And that will be reviewed with the

                 New York State Bar Association, Assemblyman

                 Weprin, who has sponsored the bill in the

                 Assembly.  And I'm sure he will be speaking to

                 the Speaker about it, and we could proceed

                 accordingly at that time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, just briefly on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate

                 the comments both of my colleague Senator

                 Paterson and Senator Skelos, who says that





                                                          4451



                 will be part of the future of this bill.

                            I'm going to vote in favor of it,

                 because I think there's one instance in which

                 you can't wait for the order to be entered,

                 especially if your opponent has got it in

                 their hands.  And that is when you're seeking

                 immediate relief.

                            You want immediate relief, you go

                 to the Supreme Court judge, you seek a

                 temporary restraining order.  For some reason

                 you either get it or you don't get it, you get

                 the order signed in your presence, and your

                 opponent picks up the order and starts walking

                 away with it.

                            In order to appeal, in order to

                 have one of our appellate division judges

                 review that case, you need the order filed

                 instantaneously.  Because it could drastically

                 affect the consequences between the parties if

                 the temporary restraining order is either in

                 place or not in place.

                            And I've had this happen in my own

                 practice where they get the temporary order,

                 they put it in their pocket, they walk out,

                 they promise you it's going to be entered so





                                                          4452



                 you can file the appeal you've got prepared

                 and are ready to go with -- and sure enough, a

                 week later your client is screaming at you,

                 you're screaming at your opponent, File the

                 order.  And it's always, It's in the hands of

                 my paralegal, it's in the staff, it's with the

                 messenger, it's somewhere.  "Don't worry, I'll

                 get it filed, Rick, and I'll serve you with

                 notice of entry."

                            And they wait the full five days

                 for the service of the notice of entry, and

                 next thing you know you're back before the

                 judge asking the court to order your opponent

                 to file the order.

                            If you could file that appeal the

                 minute -- in essence, hand it to the Supreme

                 Court judge, hand it to your opponent at the

                 second it's signed, you could then immediately

                 file the appeal and go upstairs and see if you

                 can get the kind of immediate relief you need.

                            I think this is not a bad idea.  I

                 think Senator Paterson may be correct, it

                 could inadvertently create some difficulties

                 in the timing of cross-appeals and other

                 things.  I would hope that those are attended





                                                          4453



                 to in further negotiation of this bill.

                            But the concept of not allowing

                 your opponent to walk away with the order and

                 keep you in suspense is not a bad idea.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, would Senator Dollinger yield for a

                 question?

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, how

                 do you explain the fact that this bill on one

                 hand requires that there be service with

                 notice of entry and then in the other section

                 of the bill it says that you don't need notice

                 of entry to have an appeal?

                            In other words, if we're trying to

                 alleviate confusion, how do we alleviate

                 confusion with a bill that actually, in my





                                                          4454



                 opinion, in spite of the well-intended notions

                 of the party, contradicts itself?

                            Here, you can have it.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, I would agree with Senator Paterson

                 that there's a prospect for that kind of

                 confusion.

                            But I also believe that the concept

                 of allowing someone to accelerate the order

                 and the entry process, or to avoid that

                 because your opponent picks it up and puts it

                 in their pocket and you don't get a chance to

                 go up to the appellate division to ask either

                 for the continuation of a temporary relief or

                 the denial of it -- I've just been in that

                 situation, frankly, on both sides, Madam

                 President.

                            I've had them in my pocket and

                 said, Boy, wouldn't it be nice if we waited

                 two or three days before the order got entered

                 and filed so that my opponent couldn't file

                 the appeal.  I think as a good advocate,

                 sometimes that's been in my client's best

                 interest.

                            And quite frankly, despite those





                                                          4455



                 telephone calls encouraging me to go to the

                 courts and file my orders, I've, in the best

                 interests of my client, diligently represented

                 them and said, "It might take a couple of days

                 to get that order filed."

                            This will partly remedy that

                 process.  And I think Senator Skelos has

                 indicated that he'll take this debate and the

                 discussion about clarifying those issues into

                 the conference committee or further

                 discussions with the Assembly.  And I would

                 look forward to a bill that addresses these

                 concerns but does solve the problem of the

                 order-in-your-pocket phenomenon.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, on behalf of the confused

                 nonattorneys in this chamber, I would like to

                 know why, when a judgment is handed down, why

                 both parties are not handed the order so that

                 either one of them can proceed.  Why are not

                 duplicates entered?  When we make -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Are you

                 directing your question to a specific entity?

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I'm asking it

                 to anybody who's willing to answer the





                                                          4456



                 question.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, will you yield to the question by

                 Senator Onorato?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I

                 will.

                            Because -- the only reason why is

                 this Legislature didn't pass a bill that says

                 that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you very much.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I just want

                 to explain my yes vote.  And I've already done

                 that.

                            But I wanted to add that since we

                 have ten new judges-to-be, very soon to be new





                                                          4457



                 judges in the audience, I would wonder if at

                 some point after this session we could get an

                 opinion from all ten of them to see if what

                 we're doing makes any sense.

                            But I would caution that you should

                 probably not give an opinion until after the

                 nominations are confirmed.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco recorded in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Paterson recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1282, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3195B,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to information.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          4458



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Hevesi.

                            The roll call is withdrawn.

                            Senator LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This legislation deals with both

                 the City University and the State University

                 and would ask that in the catalogs of both the

                 State University and the City University that

                 they indicate the percentage of classes in

                 each department taught by adjunct faculty,

                 teaching assistants, or graduate assistants.

                            That is the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator LaValle.

                            Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Would the

                 sponsor yield to one question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Will you

                 yield?





                                                          4459



                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator LaValle,

                 I think this is a good idea.  Just a question

                 for you in terms of what the potential

                 repercussions of this might be.

                            Do you anticipate that more

                 students than currently would enroll only with

                 tenured full professors, might try and get

                 into those classes and we'd have an imbalance

                 in the other classes as a consequence of this

                 laudable public disclosure?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    I don't suspect

                 that it would have that effect.  But as you

                 have indicated, Senator Hevesi, that I think

                 the most important thing in disclosure is that

                 it has some impact in making sure that the

                 students know what the rules of the road are.

                            Now, we won't know the answer to

                 your question until this is implemented, to

                 see whether it has any impact.  I suspect,

                 from my knowledge, that students know what a

                 good -- teaching assistants that they want

                 regardless of their status, or an adjunct





                                                          4460



                 professor who may be very, very good, very

                 exciting, they want to enroll in that class.

                 But that would be their decision to do that.

                            What we're trying to do here is, as

                 I indicated, by department for students to

                 see, for the public to see that there may be

                 some departments who are relying a little more

                 heavily on, let's say, teaching assistants or

                 adjunct professors rather than full-time

                 faculty.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 if the sponsor would continue to yield for one

                 additional question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.  Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator LaValle,

                 is there anything in current law or any

                 current requirement, in addition to the

                 requirements that we will likely impose with

                 this legislation, that student review of

                 teacher performance be included in the

                 catalogs?





                                                          4461



                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    As you know,

                 Senator Hevesi, right now in both the State

                 University and City University there are

                 reviews of evaluations that students do of

                 professors.  However, there is nothing that

                 would publish or disclose the results of those

                 evaluations, and obviously this bill does not

                 do that.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Madam President, briefly on the

                 bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 this is a solid piece of legislation.  I would

                 simply suggest that Senator LaValle visit the

                 issue that we just discussed and possibly make

                 mandatory an objective and fair analysis and

                 evaluation of professors by students.

                            I think that's the direction that

                 we're heading in with this legislation and

                 would be certainly in the interests of those

                 in the collegiate community.

                            Thank you.





                                                          4462



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    I have one

                 question for Senator LaValle.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Senator

                 LaValle, what is the percentage of full-time

                 faculty in the community colleges in the State

                 of New York?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    That varies,

                 Senator, campus by campus.  On some campuses

                 you may have a very high ratio of almost

                 50 percent of adjunct faculty, and then on

                 other campuses that may shrink to a much lower

                 percentage.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

                 President, through you -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    -- if Senator

                 LaValle would yield for one more question.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The





                                                          4463



                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Isn't the

                 figure widely quoted to be somewhere in the

                 neighborhood of 30 percent full-time faculty

                 at the community colleges?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    I don't know,

                 Senator, if that -

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    That's the

                 figure that has been widely attributed as the

                 full-time faculty ratio at the community

                 colleges, 30 percent.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    From my

                 knowledge, that number just changes from

                 community college to community college.

                            I do not -- I would find -- if we

                 took an average of the 30 community colleges,

                 I would think that that's kind of a low

                 percentage.  I would think it would be higher

                 than that.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

                 President, because the percentage is low, I

                 commend Senator LaValle for this bill, and I

                 urge its passage.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank





                                                          4464



                 you.

                            Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes, on the

                 bill.  The percentage -

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator Lachman,

                 on the bill.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Right.  The

                 percentage of community college faculty in

                 CUNY is between 45 and 50 percent, in the

                 community colleges.  In the senior colleges,

                 it's between 50 and 53 percent.  It is about

                 10 to 20 percent higher at the SUNY colleges.

                            Now, I also want to commend Senator

                 LaValle on this bill.  Because I have said in

                 the past, and I say again, that CUNY and SUNY

                 are great institutions, but their greatness

                 rests upon their full-time faculty, which is

                 the permanent arm of an institution.  As good

                 as part-time faculty are, you cannot have in

                 the United States today an outstanding

                 institution of higher education without having

                 higher averages of full-time faculty.

                            And I urge my colleagues next year

                 to review this and increase the number of

                 full-time faculty at both CUNY and SUNY.





                                                          4465



                            But I think the bill is an

                 excellent start.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1285, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4594, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to authorizing right on red in

                 Richmond County.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marchi, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Hevesi.





                                                          4466



                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, most of

                 the State of New York operates on the

                 principle advocated in this bill.  And this

                 would bring us in conformity with the other -

                 I wouldn't say the other 58 counties, but the

                 great majority of circumstances that are

                 addressed throughout the state.  In the City

                 of New York, we have just the reverse.

                            Mrs. Connelly and myself have been

                 sponsoring this legislation in reflecting the

                 considered judgment of the people of Staten

                 Island in using the public highways and

                 streets of Staten Island, so that you have the

                 same experience that we have here in Albany

                 where you are able to make a turn on a red

                 light unless it's expressly forbidden.

                            Of course, I've had long experience

                 with both systems, and each is appropriate in

                 their own way.

                            I might point out that this bill

                 was advanced once, and it was vetoed some

                 years ago by a mayor.  And I can understand.

                 But we're out in the harbor there, we're out

                 in the Atlantic Ocean, miles away from any

                 other part of the City of New York.





                                                          4467



                            And I believe that it would

                 function very well, and it is the judgment of

                 Mrs. Connelly in the Assembly.  It's a

                 bipartisan bill in response to a bipartisan

                 and almost universal sentiment that is

                 expressed in that borough that we have that.

                            Frankly, I don't see any problem.

                 You adapt and adopt to the particular

                 stringencies that are in place in any given

                 jurisdiction.  So if you've done any traveling

                 and you've been around, you know that you're

                 chargeable and must be responsive to the law.

                            This bill I believe would be a good

                 bill.  I can understand the objection to it.

                 Nevertheless, I think it collides in a very

                 substantial way with the indicated preference

                 of drivers, who feel that the regulation of

                 traffic would be expedited and also that it

                 would be a comforting factor in being able to

                 drive under the circumstances described in

                 this bill.

                            So we're seeking to conform to what

                 is virtually universal practice in the State

                 of New York -- with the exception, of course,

                 of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Kings, and the Bronx,





                                                          4468



                 multimillion-population counties.

                            Staten Island is almost as large as

                 Manhattan and the Bronx put together, but we

                 only have a slight percentage of the total

                 population that is reflected in either of

                 those boroughs, and certainly nothing

                 comparable to Queens or Brooklyn or Kings

                 County.

                            So I think it's -- if you accept

                 the judgment of a bipartisan representation

                 here from the Island of Staten lying out there

                 in the Atlantic Ocean, miles away from anybody

                 else, I do hope that it enjoys a general

                 consensus and approval.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 would the sponsor yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marchi, will you continue to yield to Senator

                 Hevesi?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, Senator.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            If you can first clarify something

                 I thought I heard you say in your explanation.

                 Did the New York City Council at some point





                                                          4469



                 authorize what you are trying to accomplish

                 here today and a mayor of New York City vetoed

                 that legislation?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    If my memory

                 serves me correctly, I believe that we passed

                 this some years ago and the Governor then

                 vetoed it, reflecting the sentiment of the

                 mayor, the then-mayor.

                            So -- but I couldn't go beyond

                 that.  I know that we have introduced this

                 bill hoping that at some point that we might

                 establish a consensus on this.

                            And I respect the arguments that

                 have been raised by the City of New York.  But

                 I believe that our isolated position and the

                 circumstances generally, and the fact that

                 virtually 99 percent of all the traffic or

                 95 percent of all the traffic that is

                 generated on Staten Island is locally

                 generated, that it would make a great deal of

                 sense to change it.

                            I don't know whether it would be

                 useful, for instance, in your county or any of

                 the other major counties with a heavy

                 population and the heavy use of the motor





                                                          4470



                 vehicle, not only from those indigenous to

                 those counties but also from the tristate

                 area.  But it is our judgment that it would

                 make eminent sense in Staten Island.

                            So take your pick.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, if the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marchi, will you continue to yield to Senator

                 Hevesi?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Oh, sure.  Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator Marchi,

                 are you aware as to whether or not the current

                 administration of the City of New York

                 supports this legislation?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    No, I would hope

                 that a kindler, gentler mayor and all of the

                 kindler, gentler council members would respect

                 our decision if it were made.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    And I've had too





                                                          4471



                 many years in my 44th year to predict

                 infallibly the future.  Even fallibly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, I very much

                 appreciate, understand, and respect what

                 Senator Marchi is trying to do here.  I would

                 feel a little bit more comfortable if this

                 legislation did not simply authorize Staten

                 Island to have a right on red legally

                 permissible but instead gave the City of New

                 York the authority to enact right on red in

                 Staten Island if the City of New York, through

                 an act of the council and with the

                 acquiescence of the mayor, chose to do so.

                            There are some concerns that I have

                 in light of the fact that we are a single

                 entity in New York City composed of five

                 separate and distinct counties, but with some

                 commonality.  And I'm concerned that there

                 could potentially -- and I'm not predisposed

                 to opposing what Senator Marchi is looking to

                 do here, but that there could be some safety

                 concerns, including how are we going to ensure





                                                          4472



                 that individuals who grow accustomed to right

                 on red in Staten Island don't violate the law

                 and compromise public safety when they come

                 into Brooklyn over the Verrazano Bridge, as

                 thousands and thousands of them do at any one

                 time.

                            And I would also like to see a

                 study, possibly by the New York City

                 Department of Transportation, on whether this

                 is truly feasible, whether the traffic volume

                 is sufficiently low to justify right on red,

                 and in the name of fairness and equity and

                 justice whether or not any other boroughs

                 might be better suited by right on red.

                            So I would simply suggest that this

                 legislation would be better if it authorized

                 New York City to take such an action instead

                 of doing it itself.

                            So I'm going to vote no on the

                 bill, but understanding that I very well might

                 think it's appropriate, that with additional

                 evidence and some studies and the appropriate

                 authority making the decision, I might support

                 right on red in Staten Island.  But for now,

                 I'm going to oppose the legislation.





                                                          4473



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Gentile, on the bill.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I rise in support of my colleague

                 from Staten Island in this bill.  It has often

                 been said that Staten Island, although a

                 borough of the City of New York, is very

                 unique in many, many ways, and that is true.

                 And I believe one of the ways it is unique is

                 in this instance, Madam President.

                            Indeed, as I travel through Staten

                 Island, the vehicular traffic in Staten Island

                 can be overwhelming many, many times.

                 However, the pedestrian traffic is of a lower

                 volume than any of the other boroughs in the

                 City of New York.

                            And with a lower amount of

                 pedestrian traffic in Staten Island, I believe

                 a right on red is a possibility and a relief

                 to the motorist in Staten Island.





                                                          4474



                            And given the fact that that is not

                 the case in any other borough but Staten

                 Island, I believe Senator Marchi's bill and

                 Assemblywoman Connelly's bill is right on the

                 mark in terms of reducing that vehicular

                 congestion.

                            Senator Marchi, you know very well

                 all you have to do is go down Highland

                 Boulevard or Richmond Road or any one of those

                 thoroughfares in Staten Island and know what

                 frustration Staten Island motorists experience

                 every single day.  And with the lack of volume

                 in pedestrian traffic, right on red in Staten

                 Island is a unique, is a unique opportunity

                 for Staten Islanders to help relieve some of

                 their traffic congestion.

                            So, Senator Marchi, I stand as the

                 other Senator from Staten Island to advocate

                 that we go forward and we pass this bill.  And

                 not only -- although I'm not on your bill, I

                 want the people of Staten Island to know that

                 I'm in support of your bill and Assemblywoman

                 Connelly's.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          4475



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 September.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1285 are

                 Senators Duane, Hevesi, and Kruger.  Ayes, 54.

                 Nays, 3.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator DeFrancisco, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I would

                 request unanimous consent to be voted in the

                 negative on Calendar 485, Senate Print 4913.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So

                 noted.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1300, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7388, an

                 act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation

                 Law, in relation to authorization.





                                                          4476



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  I would like unanimous consent to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendars 842,

                 1290, and 1295.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, you will be so noted.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1311, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7933, an

                 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law and

                 Chapter 729 of the Laws of 1993.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Just one





                                                          4477



                 moment.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    This is a program

                 as part of the worker's comp reform program

                 that was designed to increase the safety in

                 the workplace.  This bill is a three-year

                 extender of that program.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does the sponsor

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            I'm wondering if there's been any

                 data about what's happened to the original

                 pilot program that's been put out.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Cornell

                 University, Senator, has been conducting a

                 study -- frankly, it has been a little late,

                 and we're informed that the study will be





                                                          4478



                 available for us next week -- relative to the

                 success or failure of the pilot program.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, on

                 the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I just, as I have

                 stated before here, object to us extending

                 pilot programs when we don't have the data

                 from the original programs.  It seems to me if

                 the data could have been available next week,

                 it could have been available last week, so we

                 could have taken a look at this before we

                 voted on this legislation.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Marcellino.





                                                          4479



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

                 President, can we return to the reports of

                 standing committees.  I believe there's a

                 report of the Judiciary Committee at the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reports of

                 standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack,

                 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As a judge of the Court of Claims,

                 Margaret L. Clancy, of Brooklyn.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Margaret L. Clancy, of Brooklyn, as a judge of

                 the Court of Claims.  We received her

                 nomination from Governor Pataki.  The staff of

                 the committee has examined her credentials.

                 She appeared before the committee earlier

                 today, was unanimously moved from the

                 committee to the floor.

                            And it is with great pleasure that

                 I yield to Senator Connor for purposes of a





                                                          4480



                 second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            It's my privilege to second the

                 confirmation of Margaret Clancy to the Court

                 of Claims.  I congratulate the Governor on

                 this appointment.

                            Her experience has been extensive

                 in the New York County District Attorney's

                 office, for nearly 20 years, rising to the

                 position of chief of the frauds bureau.  She

                 also had served as the chief of the special

                 prosecutions bureau and was a deputy chief of

                 the trial bureau.

                            Her prior legal experience included

                 working for legal assistance in Geneva, New

                 York.  I guess before she had the wisdom to

                 move to downtown Brooklyn.  And we're

                 delighted to have her as a neighbor.

                            She's a graduate of Cornell Law

                 School, and her undergraduate work was at

                 Manhattan Marymount.

                            She is here today with her husband,

                 Steven Standiford, and her daughter, Emily, as





                                                          4481



                 well as her relatives, Elizabeth, John and

                 Zachary Palisoc.

                            So I'm delighted to move this

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Margaret L. Clancy, of

                 Brooklyn, as a Court of Claims judge in the

                 State of New York.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And on behalf of the State Senate,

                 I'd like to congratulate Judge Clancy on this

                 auspicious achievement and wish you the very

                 best in your new endeavors.  Congratulations.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Anthony I. Giacobbe, of

                 Staten Island.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.





                                                          4482



                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise again to move the nomination

                 of Anthony I. Giacobbe, of Staten Island, who

                 has been nominated by the Governor to be a

                 judge of the Court of Claims.  His credentials

                 been examined by the staff of the committee,

                 have been found to be perfectly in order.  He

                 appeared before the committee earlier this

                 morning, was unanimously moved from the

                 committee to the floor.

                            And it is with pleasure that I

                 yield for purposes of a second to Senator

                 Marchi.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    We suffered or

                 enjoyed an embarrassment of riches this

                 morning, Madam President, and we had excellent

                 candidates all the way down the line.

                            I'm especially proud of the

                 candidate that was designated or the nominee

                 who was indicated to us by the Governor, and

                 there were numerous compliments throughout the

                 proceedings as to the wisdom of the Governor

                 in assembling the very best.  Quality





                                                          4483



                 certainly matched quantity in the number of

                 judges that we are considering today.

                            And this is very, very true of

                 Anthony Giacobbe, who is a graduate of

                 Georgetown University, enjoyed a brilliant

                 academic life, and an equivalent brilliancy in

                 also teaching law at St. John's University,

                 and a splendid record of trial prosecution.

                            In every aspect of the law he

                 manifested a mastery of the knowledge of the

                 intricacies of the law, and certainly

                 indicating that what is prologue in terms of

                 his own experience should result in a

                 rewarding experience for the people in this

                 state who will be affected who will appear

                 before him on various proceedings.

                            He served under Frank Hogan, John

                 Braisted, and some of you may know Judge

                 Thomas Sullivan, who's on the appellate

                 division.  They were all DAs in Manhattan and

                 Staten Island.  And uniqueness here, that,

                 bearing a Republican label, he was selected in

                 each and every case to be a member, a prized

                 member, of the assistant district attorney's

                 staff, handling the toughest cases, crime





                                                          4484



                 cases, and being knowledgeable in all of these

                 fields.  And this period extended over a

                 period of ten years.  So this was a stupendous

                 manifestation.

                            He also served with the Legislature

                 for several years, in the Assembly, not as a

                 member, but as counsel.

                            He did this in the borough

                 president's office, in almost every single

                 aspect of life which requires a mastery of

                 different disciplines, but primarily those

                 that invoke his qualities as a prosecutor, as

                 a trial attorney, and as an eminently fair and

                 judicial person.

                            So I sat back there very smugly and

                 with great pride that Staten Island was so

                 ably represented in this distinguished array

                 of judges who were requesting our

                 confirmation.

                            He is here with family and friends

                 from Richmond County, who are very proud of

                 him.  And I do hope that past is prologue and

                 is richly annotated in terms of the attributes

                 that I've described, and that we give him a

                 rousing and unanimous confirmation at this





                                                          4485



                 session of the Legislature.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I also rise as a Senator from

                 Staten Island to endorse and second this

                 nomination of Anthony Giacobbe for the Court

                 of Claims.

                            As I said earlier today in the

                 committee hearing, I don't think I've received

                 more calls on a nomination than I did for

                 Mr. Giacobbe, calls from my own party asking

                 me to support this nomination.  Those calls

                 were unnecessary.  But I point it out only to

                 indicate the breadth and depth of the support

                 for this nominee and for the respect that he

                 has in Staten Island.

                            It's certainly my honor to stand

                 here with Senator Marchi and the other members

                 of this house to confirm Anthony Giacobbe for

                 the Court of Claims, and to wish him well and

                 to say how all of us in Staten Island are very

                 proud this day for him, for his family, and

                 for all on Staten Island.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is





                                                          4486



                 on the confirmation of Anthony I. Giacobbe, of

                 Staten Island, as a Court of Claims judge in

                 the State of New York.  All in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And as President of the Senate,

                 congratulations, Judge Giacobbe, on this

                 eminent achievement.

                            And I want to acknowledge the

                 presence of your aunt, your friends, Joy

                 Spinelli, Peter Napolitano, Anna Marie

                 Napolitano, Elena Spinelli, and several other

                 of your friends who have joined you here this

                 afternoon.  Congratulations.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Guy James Mangano, of

                 Brooklyn.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.





                                                          4487



                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Guy James Mangano, of Brooklyn, as a judge of

                 the Court of Claims.  We received the

                 nomination from the Governor.  We examined the

                 credentials of the candidate; he was found to

                 be excellent in our examination.  He appeared

                 before the committee this morning, was

                 unanimously moved from the committee to the

                 floor.

                            And I most respectfully yield for

                 purposes of a second to Senator Skelos.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Thank you, Senator Lack.

                            I'm delighted to second the

                 nomination of Guy James Mangano for the

                 position of judge of the Court of Claims.

                            He has been active in many

                 associations -- Columbian Lawyers, Brooklyn

                 Bar Association, Catholic Lawyers

                 Association -- attended Brooklyn Law School.

                 I went to Fordham, but not everybody is

                 perfect, Judge.





                                                          4488



                            But he -- what's most important,

                 what's most important is he has been in the

                 trenches.  He's tried cases, he's worked for

                 the Legal Aid Society, Appellate Term, general

                 practice, and, since 1995, principal law clerk

                 to the Honorable John M. Leventhal.

                            I'm also delighted to mention that

                 his parents are here, Anne Mangano and of

                 course the Honorable Guy Mangano, who is P.J.

                 of the Second Department.

                            So, Madam President, it's my

                 pleasure at this time to second the nomination

                 of Guy James Mangano for the position of judge

                 of the Court of Claims.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I also rise to second the

                 confirmation of Guy James Mangano, my

                 constituent, someone I've known for a number

                 of years.

                            These past five years, he's served

                 in Supreme Court of Kings County as a

                 principal law clerk to a judge who is a very

                 close friend of mine, John Leventhal.  Guy is





                                                          4489



                 actually a colleague of my wife's, who is also

                 a principal law clerk to a different justice.

                            But really I think my association

                 with his family goes back many years.  In

                 fact, it's the first real political

                 involvement that I had when I moved to

                 Brooklyn as a new lawyer.

                            Guy James Mangano bears an

                 illustrious name in the annals of the

                 Democratic Party in Brooklyn.  I'll address

                 first the "James" part of it.

                            His grandfather was the last

                 elected sheriff of Kings County, was a

                 prominent and leading Democratic district

                 leader for over 40 years, was someone who I

                 have to say in my initial years as a young

                 upstart I came into some political conflict

                 with.

                            But I have to say that Jim Mangano

                 taught me many, many lessons about politics.

                 He had a very quiet way of conveying his many,

                 many years of experience, and I benefited from

                 his wisdom on many occasions.

                            Now the "Guy" part.  Senator Skelos

                 said he's the presiding justice of the Second





                                                          4490



                 Department, and that's true.  But, Madam

                 President, in this chamber and in this

                 gallery, he's Senator Mangano, who served in

                 this body and then moved on to an illustrious

                 judicial career as a Supreme Court justice and

                 as the presiding justice in the Second

                 Department.

                            Guy James Mangano, about to become

                 another Judge Mangano, is known for his

                 cooperation, his insight into the law.  He's

                 very, very well regarded by his colleagues.

                            And he indeed is a credit to the

                 Governor for this appointment and will be a

                 credit to the people of the State of New York

                 as he serves us as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I also rise to second the

                 nomination of Guy James Mangano, of Brooklyn.

                 I have to thank Governor Pataki for this

                 nomination also.

                            It's really a banner day for

                 nominees from my area, both in Staten Island





                                                          4491



                 and in Brooklyn.  And although this nominee is

                 a constituent of Senator Connor's, the Mangano

                 family and the Mangano name is well-respected

                 and legendary in Brooklyn and throughout our

                 city and our state.

                            So it is my honor to stand here

                 with Senator Connor and the other Senators to

                 indicate my support and my seconding of this

                 nomination for Guy James Mangano and, again,

                 to congratulate Governor Pataki for this fine

                 nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the nomination of Guy James Mangano, of

                 Brooklyn, as a judge of the Court of Claims in

                 the State of New York.  All in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And as President of the Senate, my

                 congratulations to you, Judge Mangano.

                            And I'd like to acknowledge the

                 presence of your parents -- Guy, the Honorable





                                                          4492



                 Guy Mangano, and Anne Mangano -- and your

                 friend Pat Pope.  Have a wonderful

                 celebration, and best wishes to you.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Steven J. Mignano, of

                 Cortlandt Manor.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Stephen J. Mignano, of Cortlandt Manor, as a

                 judge of the Court of Claims.  We received the

                 nomination from Governor Pataki.  The

                 nominee's credentials were examined, found to

                 be eminently satisfactory.  He appeared before

                 the committee this morning, was unanimously

                 moved from the committee to the floor.

                            And I most respectfully yield for

                 purposes of a second to Senator Leibell.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.





                                                          4493



                            And I had the opportunity this

                 morning to join Senator Lack at his Judiciary

                 Committee meeting.  Once again, we have seen

                 the Governor send to us a particularly stellar

                 name to join the ranks of our judiciary.

                            I've had the pleasure of knowing

                 Steve for a number of years, and I can tell

                 you that within our area of the Hudson Valley,

                 he is well-known, well-respected.  He is

                 coming to us and coming to the judiciary with

                 many years of experience, especially in the

                 area of municipal law, which is particularly

                 well-suited for the judgeship he's going for

                 today.

                            I would also note that he has been

                 active in our community.  His private practice

                 has been a particularly successful one.  And

                 throughout -- as I noted, throughout the area

                 of the mid-Hudson he is well-respected by all

                 who have come in contact with him, both judges

                 and fellow practitioners as well.

                            I am pleased to stand here today in

                 support of this nomination, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Thank you, Madam





                                                          4494



                 President.

                            It is also my pleasure to stand and

                 to congratulate each of the appointees of the

                 Governor to the Court of Claims.  The Governor

                 has sent us a very strong list of individuals

                 over the years to be members of the Court of

                 Claims, and today's appointments are no

                 different.

                            It is my particular pleasure to

                 speak in favor of the nomination of Steve

                 Mignano, someone who spent a great deal of

                 time in the City of Yonkers.  And we were

                 sorry to lose him to Peekskill, but if he was

                 going to go anywhere, the appropriate place,

                 especially these days, is to go from Yonkers

                 to Peekskill.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Senator Lack said

                 some people would like me to go to Peekskill

                 as well.

                            Steve has an outstanding record and

                 has been involved in so many different

                 activities.  But I have known him personally

                 for a long time as someone who has worked in

                 and around many of the activities around our





                                                          4495



                 great Governor.  And he's got the exact type

                 of temperament that we need in this court.

                            And it's my pleasure to stand and

                 to very proudly second the nomination of Steve

                 Mignano.  It will make us even more proud to

                 address him as "judge."

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Stephen J. Mignano, of

                 Cortlandt Manor, as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims in the State of New York.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And again, as President of the

                 Senate, I congratulate you, Judge Mignano, as

                 well as acknowledge the presence of your wife,

                 Barbara, your son, David, your parents,

                 Dominick and Sandra Mignano, and your sister,

                 Andrea Miscinger.

                            Congratulations to all of you, and

                 have a good celebration.





                                                          4496



                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Norman I. Siegel, of New

                 Hartford.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise once more to move the

                 nomination of Norman I. Siegel, of New

                 Hartford, as a judge of the Court of Claims.

                 We received the nomination from the Governor,

                 we examined the credentials of the nominee,

                 they were found to be eminently satisfactory.

                 He appeared in person before the committee

                 this morning, was unanimously moved by the

                 committee to the floor.

                            And I most respectfully yield to a

                 very patient Senator Meier, who has been

                 waiting to second the nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  And I thank the chair of the

                 Judiciary Committee, Senator Lack.





                                                          4497



                            And there are some in the gallery

                 who know how long I've waited to do this and

                 what a great pleasure it is for me to second

                 this nomination today.

                            I really think that the way someone

                 can express confidence the best in an attorney

                 is to retain that attorney's services.  And

                 when I was county executive of Oneida County,

                 I chose Norman Siegel to counsel me and to be

                 my county attorney.

                            Norm Siegel is known throughout

                 Oneida County as an excellent lawyer, as a

                 good negotiator, as a great trial lawyer, and

                 as a fair poker player.

                            He is joined today by a number of

                 the members of the firm with which he's

                 practiced for many years.  And I know he'll be

                 missed from that firm, and he'll especially be

                 missed at the evening meetings where we sit

                 around and discuss the cases that are pending

                 in the firm, because of the wise counsel he

                 gives us at those meetings.

                            One of the things I think the

                 Governor often looks for, and it's been

                 especially gratifying to see in this group of





                                                          4498



                 nominees that we have here today, is people

                 who have a wide range of experience.  And Norm

                 Siegel certainly has that with regard to the

                 breadth of areas in which he practiced.  For

                 14 years, he served as the principal law

                 assistant to our county court judge, working

                 on criminal cases.  He has wide trial

                 experience in federal courts, state courts,

                 including the Court of Claims.

                            But he also has wide experience,

                 Madam President, in a number of civic

                 organizations, serving as president of the

                 board of trustees at the Citron Health Care

                 Center, serving on the board of trustees at

                 St. Elizabeth's, working as a member of the

                 board of directors of the Jewish Federation of

                 Utica, and a number of other areas.

                            I think that's important for people

                 who come to us and ask for our consent to

                 become judges, that they have a depth and

                 breadth of experience.  I believe that -- I

                 think all of us would agree with this, that

                 judges go to books to find the law, and they

                 go to a depth and breath of human experience

                 to find humanity, to find compassion, to find





                                                          4499



                 equity, and I think to find justice itself.

                            And on that count, nobody -

                 nobody -- will be a better judge than Norm

                 Siegel.

                            Norman, God bless you.

                 Congratulations.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Norman I. Siegel, of

                 New Hartford, as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims in the State of New York.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And I congratulate Judge Siegel on

                 your new responsibility and achievement, and

                 acknowledge the presence of your wife, Anne;

                 your daughters, Laurie, Susan and Judy; and

                 your friend Eugenia Greenhouse.

                            Have a wonderful celebration, and

                 best wishes.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary





                                                          4500



                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Richard E. Sise, of

                 Niskayuna.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Richard E. Sise, of Niskayuna, as a judge of

                 the Court of Claims.  We received the

                 nomination from the Governor, we examined the

                 credentials of the nominee.  They were found

                 perfectly in order.  He appeared in person

                 before the committee earlier today, was

                 unanimously moved by the committee to the

                 floor for purposes of confirmation at this

                 time.

                            And I most respectfully yield to

                 Senator Farley for purposes of a second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            It is with pleasure that I move the

                 nomination of Richard Sise from my hometown of

                 Niskayuna.  Let me just say a word about Dick





                                                          4501



                 Sise, who is eminently qualified for this

                 office, for this judgeship.

                            He's a graduate of Siena College,

                 University of Miami Law School.  He has served

                 as an assistant district attorney for Bronx

                 County; he was a prosecutor for a number of

                 years.  He's been an outstanding practicing

                 attorney with his family.

                            And let me just say a word about

                 his family, because you can't mention the word

                 "Sise" without talking about an incredible

                 family.

                            His father, who is with him today,

                 Bob Sise, was chief administrative judge for

                 this state, it was a number of -- it seems

                 like a few years ago that I moved his

                 confirmation.  And he was -- I said he really

                 needs the job, because he's the father of five

                 sons -- nine sons, nine, and he really needs

                 the job and the money to -- because he was

                 educating them all at that time.

                            And what a remarkable group of

                 young men they are.  His brother Joe, who's

                 also up there in the gallery -- Madam

                 President, I know that Dick Sise is a dear





                                                          4502



                 personal friend of yours.  And if you're going

                 to introduce everybody who's up in that

                 gallery, we won't be out of here till sundown.

                 But believe me, there's a lot of them up

                 there.

                            But his brother Joe is the youngest

                 Supreme Court justice in the State of New

                 York -- maybe the whole world, for all we

                 know.  And he has such connections here.  His

                 brother-in-law John Cahill, who sits over

                 here, a great basketball referee.  And his

                 wife, Connie Cahill, who's a distinguished

                 attorney and was a law professor for me at the

                 State University of New York at Albany, and

                 had the highest teaching ratings I think of

                 anybody that ever taught up there.

                            And incidentally, seated right over

                 here is Ellen Cahill, who worked for many,

                 many years for Guy Velella, Senator Velella.

                 And of course her namesake, Ellen Sise,

                 sitting right beside her, that Dick's eldest

                 daughter.  And he's got several other

                 children.

                            But let me just say he is not only

                 eminently qualified for this bench by his





                                                          4503



                 education, his training, but what a family

                 tradition.  And what an outstanding judge he

                 will make.

                            It is really -- I congratulate the

                 Governor for recognizing this young man and

                 this family.  And they are all here in support

                 of him.  And it really warms the heart of

                 everybody that's on the committee and in this

                 chamber to see the support that you have,

                 Dick.

                            We wish you well, and godspeed.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I can only echo Senator Farley's

                 remarks about Dick Sise, his wife, his

                 brother-in-law, John Cahill, and the remaining

                 Sise brothers and their parents.

                            You know, it's okay to have

                 brothers who are lawyers.  I happen to have a

                 couple myself.  Only one judge, though.  But

                 hopefully somewhere down the line that will

                 change as well.

                            But Dick Sise is not only very

                 bright, very compassionate, he's very honest.





                                                          4504



                 And those are the three major ingredients to

                 make sure that we retain our commitment to a

                 good judiciary.

                            And I'm just so pleased to be able

                 to stand up here as a part of the other side

                 of the aisle to say that this is one wonderful

                 selection.

                            Thank you very much, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, I've been waiting for the

                 opportunity to just say -- we've been here a

                 while -- I've never seen a finer group of

                 nominees come before us, the Judiciary

                 Committee.  Just a great group.  And they are

                 to be commended.

                            But also the Governor is to be

                 commended on the quality, everyone who was

                 involved in the appointments.

                            And I also, of course -- Dike Sise

                 is from my area.  I would second everything

                 that's said.  He'll do a great job in the

                 Court of Claims.

                            Thank you.





                                                          4505



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Richard E. Sise, of

                 Niskayuna, as a judge of the Court of Claims

                 in the State of New York.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And now it's the President's turn.

                 Congratulations.  It is truly an honor and a

                 delight for me to be here with my friends

                 Connie and Judge Sise, Judge Richard Sise, to

                 add to the family roster.

                            You know, there's a joke in my

                 family about the congenital family defect with

                 so many lawyers in the O'Connor family where I

                 come from.  The Sises set the standard.

                            And it is certainly a benefit and

                 certainly a source of pride for the State of

                 New York to have you join the ranks, not only

                 in your family, but of justices in the Court

                 of Claims.

                            Congratulations also to your wife





                                                          4506



                 and my dear friend Connie, as well as Joe,

                 Senior, and all of you in the family, for your

                 achievements on behalf of the State of New

                 York.

                            And particularly Judge Sise, our

                 former chief administrative judge, I know this

                 is a special moment for you.  And certainly

                 your example has set the model not only in

                 your family but across the spectrum of

                 judicial achievement.

                            My best wishes to each and every

                 one of you.

                            And I'd like to acknowledge the

                 presence of Judge Sise's children, Ellen,

                 Mary, and Michael; as well as his wife,

                 Connie; his parents, Robert and Theresa Sise;

                 brothers Joseph, Thomas and Jack, who are all

                 here there afternoon; as well as your

                 mother-in-law, who's already been

                 acknowledged, Ellen Cahill, and other family

                 friends.

                            Best wishes for a successful

                 endeavor and, I know, a wonderful celebration

                 within the Sise family.

                            (Applause.)





                                                          4507



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Leslie Crocker Snyder, of New

                 York City.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Leslie Crocker Snyder, of New York City, as a

                 judge of the Court of Claims.  We received the

                 nomination from the Governor, we examined the

                 credentials of the nominee, they were

                 perfectly in order.  She appeared before the

                 committee earlier today and was unanimously

                 moved from the committee to the floor.

                            And I most respectfully yield for

                 purposes of a second to Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President -- Mr. President.  Dual address.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    You're

                 fast, Senator Goodman.  That's good.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I rise with a

                 feeling of special enthusiasm to second this

                 nomination of an extraordinary individual





                                                          4508



                 whose career would almost make an outstanding

                 television series, not just a single show.

                 And I want to give you a little bit of her

                 background, because it's quite exceptional.

                            First of all, starting with her

                 education, she attended Radcliffe College,

                 which I have a substantial familiarity with,

                 since it was in the year 1949 that I went to a

                 freshman mixer dance and met my own wife at

                 Radcliffe and subsequently have had the

                 pleasure of being married to her for 45 years.

                            But getting back on the main

                 subject, she not only went to Radcliffe

                 College and Harvard University but majored in

                 American history and literature, which

                 happened to be the major in which I found

                 myself while at college.  And thus I can

                 testify to the exceptional background that she

                 received in terms of American historical

                 fundamentals, which I think have served to

                 ground her active legal career with great

                 distinction.

                            So much for this personal

                 interweaving.  Let me go on from there to say

                 to you that she was a scholarship student at





                                                          4509



                 Case Western Reserve, where she excelled, and

                 proceeded to join a very prestigious New York

                 law firm, where she practiced law for several

                 years, going on from that point to several

                 other very distinguished accomplishments,

                 which I'd now like to enumerate briefly.

                            First of all, Leslie Crocker Snyder

                 was in the district attorney's office in New

                 York County, where she served from January

                 1983 to January 1986 -- no, I'm sorry, that's

                 September '82 to March '83 -- again, I'm

                 afraid that I've become a little bit muddled

                 on my dates.  But let me just say that her

                 district attorney's work was extensive.

                            Here we go.  It was actually

                 January '68 to September '76.  She was an

                 assistant DA with criminal trial work, which

                 prepared her for some major responsibilities

                 which I will outline shortly.  She was the

                 chief and founder of the sex crimes

                 prosecution bureau and other very important

                 assignments at the district attorney's office.

                            She then proceeded to go to the

                 office of the special prosecutor against

                 corruption in the criminal justice system,





                                                          4510



                 working with the distinguished justice John F.

                 Keenan, who was a special prosecutor at the

                 time, from '76 to '79.

                            Going beyond that, she was a deputy

                 criminal justice coordinator and chief of the

                 arson strike force in New York from 1982 to

                 1983, a judge of the Criminal Court of the

                 City of New York from '83 to '86, and finally

                 an acting Supreme Court justice.

                            Now may I just take a moment to

                 outline the extraordinary career which she had

                 as an acting Supreme Court justice, because I

                 think it makes her sui generis absolutely

                 unique among her colleagues.

                            She presided primarily over the

                 highest level A1 multiple-defendant narcotics

                 felonies, including drug gang homicide cases,

                 organized crime narcotics cases, white collar

                 crime cases, as well as other felonies.  And

                 her trials have included some of the following

                 of New York City, and this is what I referred

                 to as being of such highly dramatic nature.

                 These included a whole range of gangs whose

                 names are household words in the gang

                 community.





                                                          4511



                            And may I just say that in the

                 process of this, she had the unusual

                 experience of receiving multiple threats on

                 her life.  As a result, it was necessary for

                 her to be guarded continuously, and that

                 guarding continues to this very date.  Her

                 life was thus very rudely, if you might say,

                 intersected with a justice system which must

                 protect its justices against any undue

                 interference by the criminal element.

                            And I think the fact that she's

                 been willing to raise a family and to put up

                 with this type of interference over these many

                 years qualifies her for exceptional notice and

                 for deep qualification from this body which so

                 values the importance of a criminal justice

                 system which is sound and appropriate.

                            The fact is that Judge Snyder is

                 herself an extraordinary human being.  I've

                 had the pleasure of knowing her personally for

                 some time.  And I'd like to cite one of her

                 many community activities which I think gives

                 an insight into her special character.  For

                 the last seven years, she has adopted two

                 classes at P.S. 116 in Manhattan, involving





                                                          4512



                 monthly visits to the school, organizing and

                 presiding over the moot court program for the

                 classes, regular court visits by the classes

                 to the courtrooms.

                            So, Mr. President, as you can

                 readily see, the combination of extraordinary,

                 specific educational high qualification, her

                 great dedication to the public service,

                 including willingness to withstand unusual

                 pressures of a type that are rarely brought on

                 any member in the criminal justice system, as

                 well as her very unique personality and her

                 deep humanitarian impulses, all add up to an

                 exceptional curriculum vitae and I trust will

                 cause this body to wish to overwhelmingly

                 support her for this very important judicial

                 post.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Leslie

                 Crocker Snyder as a judge of the New York

                 State Court of the Claims.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,





                                                          4513



                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Snyder is with us in the

                 gallery today.  She's accompanied by her law

                 clerk, Teresa Matushaj.

                            Judge, on behalf of the Senate, we

                 congratulate you on your confirmation and we

                 wish you well with your very important duties.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Lewis Bart Stone, of New

                 York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise again to move the nomination

                 of our last nominee today, but hardly the

                 least -- of course, they're in alphabetical

                 order -- someone I've known for a long time,

                 Lewis Bart Stone, of New York City, as a judge





                                                          4514



                 of the Court of Claims.

                            We received the nomination from the

                 Governor.  The nominee's credentials were

                 examined by the committee and found to be

                 excellent.  He appeared this morning in person

                 before the committee, was unanimously moved

                 from the committee to the floor for

                 consideration at this time.

                            And once again, I most respectfully

                 yield to Senator Goodman for purposes of a

                 second.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 thank you very much.

                            I'm delighted to say it's my

                 doubled-barreled privilege today not only to

                 speak of the judge I've just mentioned, but to

                 say that the following candidate for your

                 consideration is a man I know exceptionally

                 well, both personally and because he was a

                 member of my counsel staff here in the Senate

                 of the State of New York for several years.

                            In the process of his working for

                 me, I became aware of his extraordinary

                 intellect.  He's a very keen lawyer.  His

                 Harvard Law School background, from which he





                                                          4515



                 graduated cum laude, is suggestive of his

                 academic excellence.  But I may say that in

                 addition to that, he gives repeated evidence

                 of an extraordinary, pragmatic grasp of the

                 law and an ability to apply it in many

                 different situations.

                            For many years he's been a partner

                 in the distinguished law firm from New York

                 City of Rogers & Wells, which is one of

                 actually the outstanding firms in the City of

                 New York.  He was a special assistant to the

                 Governor of the State of New York in 1971 and

                 assistant counsel to the Governor from 1967 to

                 1970.

                            He has had extensive private

                 practice, and is an individual who has been

                 involved as a commissioner on uniform laws of

                 New York State.  He has lectured at the New

                 School for Social Research.  He was counsel to

                 the New York State Committee on Housing and

                 Urban Development.  He was a teaching fellow

                 at the department of chemistry of Harvard

                 University, which is an interesting bit of

                 scientific background which will equip him for

                 many high-tech decisions, I'm sure.





                                                          4516



                            He's been involved heavily in an

                 awareness of real estate problems.  He's a man

                 of compassion and concern and very deep

                 intellectuality.  He's been a trustee of the

                 Citizens Budget Commission, the Empire State

                 Citizens Housing and Planning Council, the

                 Jewish Conciliation Board of America, a number

                 of other philanthropies of note.

                            Let me just say, wrapping it all

                 into one quick verbal package, he is an

                 absolute standout and will do an honorable and

                 superb job as a justice of the Court of Claims

                 of the State of New York, and I trust Lewis

                 Bart Stone will merit your enthusiastic

                 support.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Lewis Bart

                 Stone, of New York City, as a judge of the

                 Court of Claims.  All those in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The





                                                          4517



                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Stone is with us today in the

                 gallery.  He is with his wife, Gretchen, and

                 his daughter, Pamela.

                            Judge Stone, on behalf of the

                 members of the Senate, we wish you our warm

                 congratulations, and we wish you well in

                 office.  Thank you, Judge Stone.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to motions and resolutions,

                 I believe there's a privileged resolution at

                 the desk by Senator Seward.  I ask that the

                 title be read and move for its immediate

                 adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Motions

                 and resolutions.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Seward, Legislative Resolution 4659,

                 commending the Cornell University Chorus upon

                 the occasion of its Sun-Kissed Tour.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The





                                                          4518



                 question is on the resolution.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 resolution is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could now go to the controversial

                 calendar.  And I'd like to call up Calendar

                 Number 1315 for the purposes of Senator

                 LaValle voting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar 1315.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1315, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1638B,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 the crime of partial birth abortion.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.





                                                          4519



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 LaValle will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please withdraw

                 the roll call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Roll

                 call is withdrawn.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if you could call up Calendar Number 1316 for

                 the purposes of Senator LaValle voting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1316.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1316, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4691A,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law and the

                 Executive Law, in relation to hate crimes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.





                                                          4520



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 LaValle will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please withdraw

                 the roll call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The roll

                 call will be withdrawn.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could

                 return to reports of standing committees, for

                 the Finance report.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As Superintendent of Banks,

                 Elizabeth McCaul, of Manhasset.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator





                                                          4521



                 Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,

                 Elizabeth McCaul appeared before the Finance

                 Committee today and was found eminently

                 qualified.  She was most impressive.

                            And it's a pleasure to yield to

                 Senator Balboni.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    I'll be

                 pleased to recognize Senator Balboni.

                            First, we need just a little order

                 in the chamber so we can all hear.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            It is a pleasure to rise in favor

                 of this appointment.  And I would like to

                 thank the Chairman of the Finance Committee,

                 Senator Stafford, for yielding to me and

                 allowing me to say a couple of words about

                 this nominee.

                            Elizabeth McCaul represents the way

                 things are supposed to happen.  She's been

                 part of probably one of the most renowned

                 financial firms in the nation and in this

                 world:  Goldman, Sachs.  She learned about





                                                          4522



                 finances and banking in the real world, then

                 she took her skills and she went into public

                 service.

                            And people question whether or not

                 when you make somebody the head of an agency,

                 is there a certain amount of learning on the

                 job, a certain amount of transition that goes

                 into it.  Well, this nominee, Mr. President,

                 has been in the role as Superintendent of

                 Banks, Acting Superintendent of Banks, for a

                 number of years.  She has the experience

                 because she's earned the experience.

                            I'm very proud that a member of

                 such a fine financial firm as Goldman, Sachs

                 has chosen to leave that very lucrative,

                 prestigious lifestyle and has come to lead

                 what is arguably one of the premier banking

                 departments in the nation -- that is, the New

                 York State Department of Banks.

                            And I believe that she's going to

                 be an excellent superintendent and that this

                 appointment is long overdue.  And I'd like to

                 compliment the Governor on his fine

                 appointment, and I wish her many, many years

                 of great success.





                                                          4523



                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise to join my colleague from

                 Long Island, Senator Balboni, to also

                 compliment the appointment of Ms. McCaul.  I

                 think that I would say that she has already

                 been serving in the capacity as

                 superintendent, so I'm just going to address

                 her as Superintendent McCaul.

                            Because of the problem that we've

                 had for many decades in areas of the state

                 like I represent, there is a tremendous

                 problem with redlining by banks.  The

                 redlining was followed by banks disappearing

                 from the community that I represent, or some

                 parts of my district.

                            And because of the redlining,

                 because there is no access to capital,

                 particularly by people who want to purchase

                 their homes or people who own homes and they

                 want to fix their homes up, there is

                 deterioration in the housing and deterioration





                                                          4524



                 in the community.

                            And then comes -- because of all of

                 that, then comes what we consider predatory

                 lenders.  These are so-called secondary

                 lenders.  They come in to make loans based on

                 people's equity in their homes.  And very

                 often, tragically, the kind of lending that

                 goes on in relationship to these particular

                 outfits causes people to lose their homes.  So

                 we've lost homes wholesale in many parts of

                 the city.

                            But it was Superintendent McCaul

                 who had her staff come to my district and hold

                 hearings on this issue.  As a result of those

                 hearings and others that she held throughout

                 the state, the Superintendent has been looking

                 at providing for the State of New York or

                 instituting or implementing for the State of

                 New York for the first time regulations for

                 the predatory lending community.

                            I'm most pleased that she has taken

                 on this issue, because it is a very, very

                 high-stakes issue for me and the people that I

                 represent.  So I'm honored to stand and second

                 her nomination.





                                                          4525



                            And I look forward to continuing to

                 work with her, because I believe that she

                 understands and she's committed to addressing

                 this particular issue in addition to some of

                 the other issues as it relates to financial

                 institutions in the state.

                            So I commend the Governor for this

                 nomination, and I congratulate Ms. McCaul on

                 her service to our state.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Elizabeth

                 McCaul as Superintendent of Banks for the

                 State of New York.  All those in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Superintendent McCaul is with us in the

                 gallery today.  She's accompanied by her

                 husband, Frank Ingrassia, by her





                                                          4526



                 mother-in-law, Rita Ingrassia, and by her

                 brother-in-law, Christos Kanavos.

                            Superintendent, we congratulate

                 you, we wish you welcome to the chamber today

                 and wish you well with your very important

                 duties.

                            (Applause.)

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Can we move

                 the rest of the nominees in order and have the

                 Secretary call them all.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Municipal Bond Bank Agency, Kenneth M.

                 Bialo, of Larchmont.

                            As a member of the Capital District

                 Transportation Authority, Robert P. Roche, of

                 Delmar.

                            As a member of the Correction

                 Medical Review Board, Phyllis Harrison-Ross,

                 M.D., of New York City.





                                                          4527



                            As a member of the State Board of

                 Historic Preservation, Christina R. Davis, of

                 New York City.

                            As a commissioner of the Interstate

                 Sanitation Fund, Donna B. Gerstle, of Orchard

                 Park.

                            As members of the Empire State

                 Plaza Art Commission, Joseph G. Perrella, of

                 Niskayuna; Charles A. Stainback, of Middle

                 Falls; Arete Swartz Warren, of New York City;

                 and Kristin Jannitto Woodward, of Latham.

                            As a member of the Saratoga-Capital

                 District State Park, Recreation and Historic

                 Preservation Commission, Gerald J.

                 Lewandowski, of East Amherst.

                            As members of the Stewart Airport

                 Commission, John H. Dippel, of New Paltz, and

                 Robert J. Zaccheo, of New Paltz.

                            As director of the New York State

                 Environmental Facilities Corporation, Lawrence

                 D. DiGiovanna, of Brooklyn.

                            As director of the New York State

                 Urban Development Corporation, J. Patrick

                 Barrett, of Manilus.

                            As members of the Advisory Council





                                                          4528



                 on Agriculture, James L. Vincent, of Byron,

                 and Charles E. Willie, of Montgomery.

                            As members of the Advisory Council

                 on Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services,

                 Herbert D. Kleber, M.D., of New York City, and

                 John Douglas Melbourne, M.D., of Scotia.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Can we move

                 these nominations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Okay.

                 The question is on the motion to confirm the

                 nominees named in the report of the Finance -

                 I'm sorry.

                            Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  I just wanted to speak in behalf

                 of one nominee and just congratulate the

                 Governor again on his reappointment of

                 Lawrence DiGiovanna, of Bay Ridge, Brooklyn,

                 as director of the New York State

                 Environmental Facilities Corporation.

                            Mr. DiGiovanna and I have known

                 each other for many, many years.  And indeed,

                 he is well-qualified, a member of many





                                                          4529



                 organizations in the community.  And I think

                 this will serve our state and our government

                 very well.

                            So again, I congratulate the

                 Governor on this reappointment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of the

                 nominees named in the report of the Finance

                 Committee.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominees are confirmed.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, can the Senate stand at ease for a

                 few moments.  Unless you have any housekeeping

                 at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, we

                 have a couple of motions, Senator, if we could

                 take care of those now.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Please take





                                                          4530



                 care of them.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Seward, I wish

                 to call up Calendar Number 497, Assembly Print

                 Number 10030.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 497, by Member of the Assembly Grannis,

                 Assembly Print Number 10030, an act to amend

                 the Insurance Law.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

                 Bill was substituted for Senator Seward's

                 bill, Senate Print Number 6734, on April 4th.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    I now move that





                                                          4531



                 Assembly Bill Number 10030 be committed to the

                 Committee on Rules and that Senator Seward's

                 Senate bill be restored on the order of the

                 Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    You're

                 welcome.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

                 President, amendments are offered to the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:

                            Sponsored by Senator Johnson, page

                 number 13, Calendar Number 470, Senate Print

                 Number 6243;

                            On behalf of Senator Bonacic, page

                 number 14, Calendar Number 494, Senate Print

                 Number 7106;

                            On behalf of Senator Hoffmann, page

                 number 30, Calendar Number 941, Senate Print

                 Number 7798;

                            On behalf of Senator Skelos, page

                 number 34, Calendar Number 997, Senate Print

                 Number 6800B;





                                                          4532



                            And on behalf of Senator Farley,

                 page number 42, Calendar Number 1151, Senate

                 Print Number 5068B.

                            I now move that these bills retain

                 their place on Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bills will

                 retain their place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            On behalf of Senator Saland, I wish

                 to call up his bill, Senate Print Number 2752,

                 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at

                 the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 347, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2752, an

                 act to authorize the City School District of

                 the City of Poughkeepsie.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.





                                                          4533



                 President, I now move to reconsider the vote

                 by which this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I now offer

                 the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received.

                            Senator Marcellino, that concludes

                 the motions.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If we could just be at ease

                 for two seconds.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 1:00 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 1:03 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Bruno.





                                                          4534



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 can we at this time take up Calendar Number

                 1316.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1316, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4691A,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law and the

                 Executive Law, in relation to hate crimes.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Bruno, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President, colleagues.

                            The legislation that we are

                 discussing now and hopefully will pass in this

                 chamber, this legislation is referred to as

                 the bias-crime bill, hate crimes.

                            And we had talked about this over

                 the years.  We talked about it last year in

                 January.  And we've indicated previously that

                 this legislation or something like it would

                 appear on the floor of the Senate to be openly





                                                          4535



                 debated, and we're here.

                            I want to make a point that we in

                 the Senate have always been in the forefront

                 in doing what is necessary to help protect

                 people's lives in this state.  In this

                 country, in this state, it's founded really on

                 the principles of life, liberty, and the

                 pursuit of happiness.  To live our lives the

                 way we want to, to be free, to pursue

                 happiness means that people don't have to be

                 afraid to be on the street, in their homes, in

                 their place of businesses for any reason.

                            And that's why we have done

                 legislation to increase the penalties on

                 assaults of all types, which is now law.

                 Which we did a gang violence bill to protect

                 people where two or more gang up on them, and

                 that is now law.  And we have a litany of

                 other pieces of legislation, all intended to

                 protect people's lives, their liberty, and

                 their ability to pursue their happiness.

                            Now, I would only hope that this

                 legislation adds to -- by increasing penalties

                 where there is an intent to commit a hate

                 crime or a bias crime to any specific





                                                          4536



                 individual or group, I would only hope that

                 this would help make our lives safer here in

                 this state, and I pray that that is the case.

                            I have a feeling still that this

                 legislation is more perception than it is

                 substance.  But times change.  And the time,

                 we feel, is appropriate for us to just add

                 this to all the other things that we have done

                 here in the Senate in a leadership position to

                 help protect people from those that would want

                 to violate them or injure them in any way.

                            And I want to commend Senator

                 Goodman for his continuing and continued

                 leadership on this issue; Senator Spano, who

                 has had this in the forefront for years;

                 recently, with our new addition, Senator

                 Duane, who has added his voice to help get

                 this bill to the floor.

                            And I want to commend Governor

                 Pataki for having had the good judgment to

                 structure a piece of legislation that helps

                 protect the people the way they ought to be

                 protected and allowing a bill such as this to

                 be constructed in a way that we feel that we

                 can bring it to our floor, that many of the





                                                          4537



                 people here will vote for it, and that this

                 will hopefully pass the Assembly and get

                 signed by the Governor.

                            And just add it to all of the other

                 things that we have done to protect people in

                 this state and allow them to go on and live

                 their lives in the pursuit of happiness.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like to start by reminding this body that

                 some weeks ago I informed some people who were

                 raising questions with respect to what might

                 happen to this bill that we had received a

                 word of honor from the Majority Leader of the

                 New York State Senate to the effect that this

                 bill would be taken up this year.

                            And I at that time expressed the

                 opinion that this word was worth 24-carat gold

                 in terms of assurance.  And today I think

                 proves the hypothesis that when Senator Joseph

                 Bruno gives his word that something will

                 happen, it happens, and you can take it to the

                 bank.  That, I think, is a significant factor





                                                          4538



                 in the extraordinary stature which he's

                 achieved as leader of this house.

                            And I'd also like to comment on

                 what I think is the underlying statesmanship

                 impulse which permits this now to be acted

                 upon.

                            My mind goes back to a day many

                 years ago when there was a majority leader in

                 this house who did not necessarily believe in

                 the bill that was brought forth; namely, the

                 abortion reform bill.  And notwithstanding his

                 personal deep opposition to it, he allowed it

                 to come to the floor for a vote of conscience.

                 At the conclusion of that debate, he slumped

                 into his chair, literally in tears because of

                 his distress at the outcome.  But nonetheless,

                 he felt an impelling need to bring it before

                 the house so that each member could be heard

                 and express a point of view.

                            It's a similar impulse.  I have no

                 idea in which way my Majority Leader will find

                 it in his wisdom to vote on this matter, but I

                 think the fact that he has seen fit to let it

                 come to the floor for a vote at this time is a

                 signal that he is an individual of great





                                                          4539



                 humanitarian concern and obviously the most

                 honorable of senators.

                            So with that preface, let me now

                 speak to the bill itself.

                            Mr. President, we have had from

                 time to time some extraordinarily sad

                 happenings which have attracted the attention

                 of the entire nation.  I refer, of course, to

                 Matthew Shepard, a young gay man in Wyoming

                 who was strapped to a fence and killed and

                 tortured and murdered.  I refer to situations

                 involving a man in Mississippi who was chained

                 to the back of an automobile and, solely

                 because he was black, he was literally torn to

                 pieces and ripped and wrecked and destroyed as

                 a human being.  I refer to cases in which

                 churches and synagogues have been wantonly

                 attacked for no reason other than that they

                 represent the religious views of certain

                 people not in harmony with those who had

                 launched the attacks.

                            And I say to you that what we are

                 attempting to deal with here is some of the

                 darkest and most tragic impulses which enter

                 warped minds who seek to take out vengeance





                                                          4540



                 upon specific groups, whether it be due to

                 bias or due to hate that is somehow the result

                 of twisted mental processes.

                            Mr. President, it's imperative that

                 society recognize the nature of these things,

                 not as crimes against one individual but

                 rather as crimes against a whole class of

                 people.

                            As you are probably well aware by

                 now, the bill before us is one which has been

                 developed in cooperation with the Governor,

                 with a number of civic groups, with a number

                 of fellow legislators to whom Senator Bruno

                 referred.  And I would add the names of

                 Senator Hoffmann and Senator Lack to those

                 that he referred to, as well as others on the

                 other side who have been very instrumental in

                 pushing this -- Senator Lachman, for one.  And

                 I could name a number of others, I'm sure.

                            The bill itself seeks to do the

                 following.  It seeks to punish severely those

                 who commit a hate crime because of their

                 biased perception regarding the race, color,

                 national origin, ancestry, gender, religion,

                 age, disability, or sexual orientation of





                                                          4541



                 their victim.

                            Under the bill, a judge or a jury

                 would be asked to say whether a defendant

                 chose a victim because of prejudice and bias

                 and hate.  If a guilty verdict is returned

                 accompanied by a finding of bias, then a

                 longer prison term would be presented and

                 would be used to punish the individual.

                            Now, what we're doing, as you can

                 plainly see, is ratcheting up the penalty.

                 And some will say why should this be

                 necessary, we have very heavy penalties on the

                 books.  The answer is that when a crime is

                 intended to cover a whole class of people, we

                 must try to deter it with a penalty that is

                 far more severe and one which can be

                 understood and advanced by potential

                 perpetrators as absolutely unacceptable and

                 inadmissible in a civilized society.

                            Crimes punishable by the bill

                 include assault, manslaughter, murder, rape,

                 kidnapping, burglary, arson, harassment and

                 sexual abuse.  There are others as well.

                            Forty-one other states have already

                 provided added penalties where a perpetrator





                                                          4542



                 singles out a victim because of a bias, and 23

                 states include sexual orientation in the list

                 of bias crimes.

                            The matter of the inclusion of

                 sexual orientation should be dealt with

                 candidly on this floor.  Ever since the AIDS

                 epidemic occurred and the misperception

                 permeated our society that AIDS was a disease

                 exclusively suffered by homosexuals and gay

                 men and lesbian women, particularly gay men,

                 there's been a sense that God has sought to

                 punish these people.

                            And the warped perception that this

                 is a divine intervention in some way to punish

                 a select group is of course a preposterous and

                 ludicrous distortion of the facts, the plain

                 fact of which is that the AIDS epidemic is -

                 the vectors of transmission of the AIDS

                 epidemic are not strictly homosexual.  Indeed,

                 they're widely heterosexual, as can be readily

                 perceived by anybody familiar with this

                 disease.

                            So that unfortunately as a result

                 of the AIDS epidemic and the fright that it

                 engendered, there have been vicious attacks on





                                                          4543



                 gay men.  We have in this very chamber someone

                 who suffered such an attack who happens to be

                 HIV positive and who was brutally beaten.  And

                 I think that Senator Duane has shared with you

                 his personal experiences in this matter.  And

                 we could have no more living proof of the need

                 for this type of bill than having one of our

                 colleagues on the receiving end of this type

                 of warped behavior.

                            Now I want to pay special tribute

                 to Governor Pataki as well, since the

                 Governor's people have drafted the bill that's

                 before us.  As is well known, since 1988 I had

                 a bill of my own on this.  I've yielded to the

                 Governor's bill, which is somewhat broader.

                            And I may say that the Assembly has

                 passed a bill which is available to be

                 integrated with this bill.  And I am confident

                 that there will be no problem in a conference

                 procedure in melding these bills into one that

                 we'll readily agree upon, which the Governor

                 will be happy and prepared to sign.

                            I want to emphasize one important

                 feature of the bill, which would require that

                 state law enforcement agencies keep statistics





                                                          4544



                 on bias incidents.  It is exceptionally

                 important that society have an awareness of

                 the scope and extent of bias crime, because it

                 is only through such an awareness that it can

                 be adequately combated.

                            Frankly, it's that awareness, I

                 think, and the rising incidence of such crimes

                 in the presence of general crime declines

                 which has caused this house to recognize that

                 it is time that we do something specific to

                 address this.

                            Some may regard it as a symbolic

                 action.  But whether you believe it to be

                 symbolic or pragmatic in its application, it

                 will have the same effect of sending a strong

                 signal to those who would consider

                 perpetrating a hate crime that this is out of

                 bounds in our society and is simply forbidden

                 and will not be tolerated.  And, should you do

                 something of this sort, you will face a prison

                 sentence far longer than what you would

                 otherwise face had you not committed the crime

                 with bias.

                            Now, let me also say that I think

                 there are inherent protections in this bill.





                                                          4545



                 The question is how does a judge or a jury

                 ascertain whether bias was involved in a

                 crime.  The proof must be very carefully

                 ascertained.  It cannot be done on the basis

                 of hearsay or bland assumptions.  There must

                 be definite evidence that the individual who

                 perpetrated the crime had in mind to

                 perpetrate it against an individual of a

                 specific class or group against which there

                 was prejudice or bias.

                            In the absence of such ironclad

                 evidence, these penalties should not apply

                 because they are indeed severe and it would be

                 a misapplication of justice for that to be

                 done.

                            Mr. President, let me conclude with

                 these few brief personal thoughts, if I may.

                 As an individual who had lost relatives in the

                 Holocaust myself, I obviously have a

                 heightened sense of the importance of society

                 awakening in ample time to deal with this type

                 of hatred which can, if allowed to spread,

                 become a conflagration and an epidemic of

                 uncontrollable proportions.

                            What we seek to do is to put out





                                                          4546



                 these fires before they can spread.  And

                 that's exactly the intent of the bill, which

                 has a sharp point on it aimed precisely at the

                 individual crimes of violence and hatred which

                 unfortunately still occur with all too great

                 frequency in society.

                            So make no mistake about it, this

                 is a landmark bill.  It's the first time in

                 anyone's memory that sexual orientation has

                 been specifically mentioned.  But it is not a

                 bill, I would assure you, that relates solely

                 to that by any means.

                            Indeed, I would remind you that

                 Cardinal O'Connor before his untimely death

                 asked me to come to see him in his office.  In

                 the course of that interview with him he said

                 that he was deeply concerned not only about

                 hate crimes directed at gay and lesbian people

                 but against Jews and Catholics and others who

                 had been assaulted.  He was troubled by the

                 attacks on Catholic churches as well as Jewish

                 synagogues, on gay men as well as nongay men,

                 and indeed troubled by anything that smacked

                 of prejudice and bias.

                            The Cardinal was in his own way a





                                                          4547



                 towering figure.  I suspect if there were ever

                 a saint on earth, he may well qualify as that

                 person.  And tragically, although it was his

                 intention to do what he could to get behind

                 this bill in some appropriate fashion, he died

                 before he could implement that wish.

                            But let me just say that his

                 involvement in this and that of other

                 statesmanlike figures in this chamber strike

                 me as being a convocation of some of the great

                 minds and great people we've ever dealt with

                 in my experience of 32 years in the Senate.

                            I thank again the Majority Leader

                 and all of you who have been involved in this

                 effort, to say to you simply that I think

                 we've done something which is both noble in

                 intent and practical in application.  And it's

                 my fervent wish that this will help to banish

                 the hideousness of hate crimes and bias from

                 the State of New York and hopefully, by

                 example, other major areas of the nation.

                            Thank you very much, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Mr.





                                                          4548



                 President.

                            And thank you, Senator Goodman, for

                 your explanation of the bill.  There's really

                 little need to go into the specifics of what's

                 in the bill after that fine articulation of

                 the content of the bill.

                            But obviously the bill is bigger

                 than the four corners on which it's printed,

                 and its meaning and significance is larger

                 than the four square corners that encompass it

                 in bill copy.

                            The first bias or anti-bias-crime

                 bill introduced in this house was by Senator

                 David Paterson more than a decade ago, after

                 the Howard Beach murder.  There have been

                 subsequent versions put about.  Governor Cuomo

                 was an ardent advocate for a hate-crimes bill.

                            Repeatedly over the years, the

                 Assembly passed a hate-crimes bill, and it was

                 the Senate that never before allowed a

                 hate-crimes bill that embraced all the

                 categories of people who are subject to this

                 kind of violence because of who they are to

                 come to this floor for a vote.

                            And more specifically, there was





                                                          4549



                 once an offer many years ago to do a -- by the

                 Senate to do a hate-crimes bill that embraced

                 race, gender, and other categories, but not

                 sexual orientation.  And much to -- really,

                 much to everyone's who's concerned about this

                 eternal gratitude, members of the -- the then

                 members of the Black and Puerto Rican Caucus,

                 as well as other organizations from other

                 religious groups and so on, said, No, we won't

                 accept the protection if it's not extended to

                 everyone in every category of our citizens who

                 are subjected to this hate-directed violence.

                            So here we are many years later.

                 Better late than never.  Senator Duane, since

                 he's joined us, has been an ardent advocate

                 for this hate-crimes bill or a similar

                 hate-crimes bill.  I'm proud of my conference

                 that stands absolutely unanimously for this

                 legislation and has in the past, year after

                 year, stood unanimously in favor of motions to

                 move this bill to the floor so that we could

                 have had a vote much earlier than this.

                            When we last did that, Senator

                 Bruno, the Majority Leader, made a commitment.

                 As always, kept his word.  And at long last,





                                                          4550



                 we have it.

                            So to certainly my colleagues in

                 the Democratic conference who have worked so

                 hard -- we've had hearings, we've had task

                 force hearings around the state.  Indeed, we

                 had one scheduled for tomorrow that will now

                 be more on the order of a celebration.

                            To the first lady, Hillary Clinton,

                 we were gratified that she came to Albany

                 several weeks ago specifically to call for

                 this bill to be moved to the Senate floor and

                 passed by both houses.  And so she

                 certainly -- the kind of focus she brought to

                 bear on this issue, that focused all New

                 Yorkers that New York alone on the East Coast,

                 with the exception of South Carolina, does not

                 have this kind of legislation.

                            Other places like Georgia, and

                 places considered much more conservative than

                 New York in its approach, have hate-crimes

                 bills.  And we will soon be joining that

                 company of states.  As Senator Goodman noted,

                 there are many, many others.

                            So to my colleagues in the

                 Democratic conference, I say once again that





                                                          4551



                 old political axiom is being proved, the one

                 attributed to Speaker Tip O'Neill.  And that

                 is there is nothing in a legislative body that

                 you can't accomplish as long as you're willing

                 to let someone else take credit for it.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    And to my

                 colleagues in the Republican conference who

                 are supporting this, I say welcome aboard.

                 We're delighted that we're able to have this

                 vote.  And we're delighted to know -- and I

                 certainly hope very swiftly any differences

                 with the Assembly, which I think are really

                 without any great substance, will be resolved

                 and we can actually have legislation to the

                 Governor, who I congratulate for putting this

                 bill in.  And I congratulate him in advance

                 for responding to the calls of many, many New

                 Yorkers.  And we're certain he will certainly

                 sign it.

                            So thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

                 I first would like to make reference to a





                                                          4552



                 remark earlier by my distinguished colleague

                 Senator Goodman, who spoke of the majority

                 leader who in his words did such a courageous

                 act, the late Earl Brydges.  I and other

                 members presently in this house know that

                 Senator Brydges had indicated many times

                 during his retirement that it was the decision

                 he regretted most of his legislative career.

                            I'd like to first of all say that I

                 believe all violent crimes should be punished

                 to the fullest extent of the law, regardless

                 of the category of the victim or the mind-set

                 of the perpetrator.

                            I'd like to just allude to the

                 comment by Senator Connor where he indicated

                 that those members of the gay and lesbian

                 community had indicated that they could not

                 avail themselves of the protection unless it

                 was extended to all categories.

                            Well, Mr. President, I don't find

                 myself in any of those categories.  Most of

                 the members of this house do not find

                 themselves in those categories.  Perhaps we

                 could prevail upon Senator Connor and the rest

                 of his distinguished colleagues to not avail





                                                          4553



                 themselves of this protection until it is

                 afforded to all of us.

                            And that is the point, Mr.

                 President.  This is shades of Orwell in 1984.

                 We're all equal, and yet some are more equal

                 than others.

                            Why should a crime perpetrated upon

                 a victim, a helpless victim, if someone utters

                 a racial or ethnic or gender slur, be more

                 punished than any other crime?  Why should

                 most, the vast majority of the people in my

                 district not deserve and not be afforded the

                 protection that is afforded under this bill?

                            There are some fifty lines of

                 categories and crimes in this bill.  Why not

                 extend it and make it much easier and indicate

                 that all persons would be afforded the

                 protection of the bill and all penalties would

                 be suitably enhanced or increased?

                            And the reason is simple.  Because

                 the members of the other house, the majority

                 in the other house, because many of the

                 members who are lauding this bill will not

                 vote for increased penalties for most violent

                 crimes, despite the best efforts of the Senate





                                                          4554



                 Majority here.

                            Are you less -- should a person, an

                 elderly women mugged in a street corner be

                 afforded less protection, should her

                 perpetrator receive less of a penalty than

                 those protected under this statute?  And my

                 reply is no.

                            I'd like to allude to a statement

                 by the New York State Catholic Bishops which

                 we checked this morning -- and the statement

                 still stands -- and just read a couple of the

                 paragraphs.  And this, by the way, is a

                 statement from New York State's Catholic

                 Bishops on the proposed legislation regarding

                 bias-related offenses.  And I'll skip over

                 some of the preface.

                            "As Catholics, we share with the

                 proponents of anti-hate legislation a deep

                 concern over deplorable acts on individuals

                 based on their perceived membership in a

                 particular group or class.  Indeed, at various

                 times in our 2,000 years as a church, it has

                 been Catholics who have been and are now the

                 targets of such violence.

                            "We empathize fully with all those





                                                          4555



                 who find themselves victimized by violent,

                 bias-motivated crimes.  We stress that

                 bias-motivated violence against all persons,

                 whether based on race, color, religion, sex,

                 disability, age, national origin, or sexual

                 orientation, in speech or in action, is

                 reprehensible and deserves condemnation from

                 all whenever and wherever it occurs.

                            "We are also not convinced that

                 current anti-bias proposals would be effective

                 in deterring bias crimes.  There are already

                 federal and state laws to punish such crimes.

                            "We suggest that primary

                 intervention through education and

                 rehabilitation is the best method of

                 addressing the ignorance and deep-seated

                 prejudices that underlie such actions, rather

                 than further criminalization of the

                 population.

                            "We are deeply sensitive to the

                 suffering that crime, particularly

                 bias-related crime, inflicts on victims and

                 their families, and to the long-term damage it

                 causes to the social fabric.  Particularly

                 troubling is the high incidence of crime among





                                                          4556



                 young people, which raises disturbing

                 questions about current society and ominous

                 concerns about the future.

                            "We must commit ourselves ever more

                 to working as a society to enhance respect for

                 the rights of all and to identify and address

                 the root causes of crime.  Through every

                 aspect of our pastoral ministry and through

                 the preaching of the word of God, we strive to

                 promote love, respect, and tolerance for every

                 human being, as created in the image of God."

                            I'd like to just quote one line

                 from Bishop Dailey, the bishop of the Diocese

                 of Brooklyn.  The point that he makes, which

                 is just in a few words, is that the way to

                 approach the bias and ignorance of bigotry is

                 through the church, is through the teachings

                 at home.  Bishop Dailey has said, "Those who

                 hold these bigoted views must in time come to

                 a conversion of heart."

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            On May 24th of 1981, there were two





                                                          4557



                 young men riding through South Ozone Park,

                 Queens, on their bicycles.  Their names were

                 Michael Phillips and Jerry Brown.  They were

                 then attacked by a group of young people.

                 They were African-American; those young people

                 were white.  In the attack, Michael Phillips

                 was murdered.  Jerry Brown escaped.

                            Jerry Brown now lives in Toronto,

                 Canada, and says that he will never come to

                 the United States again.  But he did come one

                 time, to testify at one of our

                 hate-crimes-legislation hearings.

                            In 1983, one of the individuals who

                 was part of the group that attacked these

                 young men -- who actually did not participate

                 in the actual attack, but was present -- a

                 young man named Danny Basile, came forward and

                 admitted to his part in the crime and named

                 the other individuals that he said were

                 involved.  He named them in a preliminary

                 hearing in the Queens District Attorney's

                 office on May 5, 1983.  At that time I was

                 working in the Queens District Attorney's

                 office.

                            Because of the directness of his





                                                          4558



                 statements about other people, his family

                 thought it better that he relocate and live in

                 Dallas, Texas.  In December of 1983,

                 Mr. Basile came home to visit his family, and

                 on December 27, 1983, Danny Basile was

                 murdered, presumably by people who were upset

                 that he was testifying against his friends.

                            There was never a conviction in the

                 Michael Phillips murder.  Mrs. Phillips, Mrs.

                 Mary Phillips, Michael Phillips' mother, does

                 not speak to me to this day, because she feels

                 that I was part of the same Legislature that

                 could not pass hate-crimes legislation and

                 could not find a way to convict someone for

                 the death of her son.

                            These cases are unfortunately

                 enriddled in the fabric of our country.  Our

                 founding Constitution, Article I, Section 2,

                 clause 3, the part of the Constitution that

                 allows for slavery, was the manifestation of

                 hate through the actual belief that some

                 people were superior to other people.

                            We have had this problem eating

                 away at our democracy from its founding.  What

                 to do about slavery was the entire issue of





                                                          4559



                 the Louisiana Compromise in 1803, the 17 years

                 of debate that culminated in the Missouri

                 Compromise of 1820, where slavery was

                 permitted south of the 36th parallel -- and

                 north of the 36th parallel, those areas in

                 this country would be free.

                            The fight continued through the

                 abolitionist movement to the Compromise of

                 1850, the Compromise of 1854, the

                 Kansas-Nebraska Act, and eventually the Dred

                 Scott case, which people felt continued the

                 allowance of slavery, but actually the Dred

                 Scott case just said that an African-American

                 couldn't sue in a United States federal court

                 because African-Americans at that time were

                 considered to be three-fifths of a person.

                            Actually, it was three-fifths of a

                 man.  We weren't even giving women credit in

                 those days for having any real meaning in this

                 country.

                            So the separation of people, the

                 systemic discrimination of people, from the

                 Irish to the Jews to the Italians, to every

                 single ethnic group that came to this country,

                 became unfortunately as American as apple pie.





                                                          4560



                 It has always been something that we have

                 never addressed as a society.

                            Those attacks on individuals

                 because of their race, their color, their

                 ancestry, their national origin, their age or

                 disability, their sex or their sexual

                 orientation, those are always the cases that

                 attack, as Senator Goodman said, the community

                 of people, in addition to the pain that

                 individuals actually feel.

                            And so that's what we've come here

                 to try to address today.  In 1987, when I

                 first examined our history of legislation, it

                 was interesting to note at that particular

                 time that the New York State Senate and the

                 New York State Assembly, our Legislature in

                 New York, had never even passed the

                 state-accompanying legislation that had been

                 passed by several other states to the federal

                 Civil Rights Act of 1964.  In those days I

                 wondered aloud if this body could even pass

                 the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964.

                            When we think in terms of that

                 period, we remember that Michael Griffith, a

                 young man walking through Howard Beach after





                                                          4561



                 his car broke down, was chased and eventually

                 died as a result of the actions of a mob of

                 people who attacked him simply because he was

                 black.

                            We drafted that legislation in

                 1987.  And at that time, even the leaders in

                 the gay and lesbian community were willing to

                 let that bill pass because they felt that at

                 least somebody would get protection from what

                 would be hate crimes.

                            Fortunately that bill -- in a

                 way -- didn't pass, because it would have been

                 a hate-crimes-relief bill that had hate built

                 right into it, because we would have been

                 eliminating gay and lesbian citizens from that

                 protection and consideration.

                            And so I'd like to thank the chair

                 of the Black and Puerto Rican Legislative

                 Caucus in that year, 1987, Roger Green, for

                 being the one who brought the message to those

                 of us who were in that caucus that we could

                 not allow for any such hate-crimes legislation

                 to continue.

                            In 1989 the New York Post, with a

                 reporter by the name of Joel Nicholson, did a





                                                          4562



                 survey:  57 of the 61 Senators in this chamber

                 said that they would be in favor of some type

                 of hate-crimes protection.  But yet the bill

                 did not pass.

                            When the governor at the time,

                 Cuomo, introduced his bill, he called it

                 antibias legislation.  And we found through

                 surveys over the years that in spite of the

                 well-intended legislation that Governor Cuomo

                 offered, the euphemistic term "bias

                 legislation" confused the public, and people

                 couldn't really tell you how they felt about

                 it until you asked them about hate crimes,

                 which was the way the bill was originally

                 introduced.

                            It is now the day when that bill

                 will pass.  And I would like to thank Senator

                 Bruno for honoring his commitment that he made

                 right here in this chamber and bringing this

                 bill before the house.

                            I would say that I'm somewhat

                 disappointed that there isn't a lot more

                 enthusiasm about what this type of legislation

                 can actually do.  Because we're not only

                 trying to diminish the actions of perpetrators





                                                          4563



                 of this crime, we're also trying to interest

                 law enforcement in the need to prosecute

                 people who manifest their hatred in violence

                 against other citizens.

                            We protect people who are robbing

                 banks from excessive force taken by law

                 enforcement or personnel who are trying to

                 stop them.

                            And so we need to protect everyone,

                 no matter how we feel about them, but really

                 to go even beyond that and address what is the

                 reason that we have these hatreds toward other

                 people because of how they conduct their lives

                 or what they look like or where they're from.

                            The fact is we have 23 continuing

                 world conflicts right now that are ethnically

                 derived.  In World War II, we had countries

                 fighting each other and praying to the same

                 Pope.

                            This issue, more than any other, is

                 one that gets beneath and beyond the

                 sensibilities of individuals.  And if the

                 nexus of how to stop crime and how to create

                 honor in people's hearts begins in the church,

                 then maybe it does.  But it doesn't end to the





                                                          4564



                 exclusion of the law.

                            A little while ago Senator Maltese

                 talked about the fact that little old ladies

                 in his district could be attacked.  They're

                 protected under this legislation.  Everyone in

                 this state, everyone in this jurisdiction is

                 protected from the violence that could be

                 manifested by others hating them, because they

                 would be a member of one of these protected

                 classes.

                            The fact is that this type of

                 legislation is the most necessary of all

                 anticrime or penalty-oriented legislations,

                 because it is the most rooted of all crimes

                 that we see committed.  And that is why I am

                 glad to see it come before us today.

                            I want to thank those from the

                 Anti-Defamation League and all of the groups

                 that came together to have the Hate Crimes

                 Coalition, because about ten to twelve years

                 ago some of us used to feel that this was an

                 issue that was only felt in the minority

                 communities around this state.  They came

                 forward to make us understand that we were

                 wrong.





                                                          4565



                            And I particularly want to thank

                 the director of the Anti-Defamation League in

                 New York, Howie Katz, for his persistent and

                 unending work on this particular issue.

                            I want to thank the former Minority

                 Leader Manfred Ohrenstein, who once carried

                 this bill; former State Senator Catherine

                 Abate; and also the Minority Leader right now,

                 Senator Connor, who has always made this a

                 priority in his list of issues to try to get

                 addressed before this house.

                            I also want to thank Senator Tom

                 Duane, whose resilient effort on this bill has

                 actually turned me from being the cynic in

                 this house to actually believing that we can

                 get something done around here once in a

                 while.  And it doesn't even matter whose name

                 is on it.  Years from now, that will not make

                 a difference.

                            What may make a difference to the

                 families of Michael Griffith and Yankel

                 Rosenbaum, who was killed in August of 1991 in

                 Crown Heights and Yusef Hawkins, who was

                 killed in Bensonhurst in 1989, and Julio

                 Rivera, who was killed in Brooklyn in 1991,





                                                          4566



                 and to all of those who escaped death but were

                 violated by the anger and the actions of other

                 people who hated them for the least of all

                 reasons, it might provide some kind of relief

                 and at least the understanding that we as a

                 society are starting to address the issues

                 that go to the very core of our existence and

                 the very being of our persons.

                            We are certainly not finished when

                 we pass this legislation.  We still have to

                 compile statistics.  We know that hate crimes

                 have trebled in the gay and lesbian community.

                 We know that hate crimes have doubled in the

                 Jewish community against these particular

                 victims.

                            And we know that this is

                 unfortunately something that we are going to

                 have to attack from all levels of society and

                 not to in any way try to promote the

                 distinction that this is separate from any

                 other type of situation that needs to be

                 addressed by the law.

                            We protect police officers and

                 corrections officers because when they are

                 attacked, the fabric of our society is





                                                          4567



                 attacked, because they are pillars of the

                 institution of our democracy.

                            We protect cemeteries and religious

                 artifacts and religious edifices from the

                 violence of others, because it's not just like

                 vandalizing a vacant building.  All the dreams

                 and sometimes the hopes and the spiritual

                 desires of a community are vested in their

                 cemeteries and in their religious buildings.

                 So when you attacked them, you went out of

                 your way to send a message to that community.

                            Now we as a society are going to go

                 out of our way to make sure that you pay for

                 it in a way beyond what would have been the

                 regular sentence for an ancillary type of

                 crime.

                            And so we hope that this will be a

                 prelude, a catalyst for other legislation that

                 will hope to eliminate and eradicate the type

                 of hate and the type of anger that people

                 feel, and also the fact that they manifest it

                 in violence.

                            And we hope that sometime we'll be

                 able to come back here and recognize that the

                 step we took today was a step in a direction





                                                          4568



                 that really made our society build up to what

                 was hopefully the intent of the formulators of

                 our original Constitution when they hoped that

                 they could guarantee, in the Declaration of

                 Independence, that all men and women in this

                 society would be treated equally.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Mr. President, I

                 listened with -- at the time of the debate

                 that we had on abortion many years ago, seated

                 right next to me was Senator Clinton Dominick.

                 And we both faced each other on that bill.

                 And I remember the circumstances well when the

                 majority leader, Earl Brydges at that time,

                 wept over the decision that was made.

                            It was not a mistake to bring the

                 issue to the public.  And before this, the -

                 our distinguished Majority Leader helped in

                 the process to bring this to the attention of

                 the membership and requesting that we address

                 it.

                            But the quality and the judgment

                 that we make must be reflected in our basic

                 mores on what is effective law and what is





                                                          4569



                 likely to paper over and layer a patina of

                 moralistic expression without really tackling

                 the basic essentials of what's involved here.

                            I remember that we debated this

                 last year, and I remember we heard from

                 Senator Santiago; from you, Senator Duane.

                 And I asked you at that time was there any

                 way -- he had a legitimate argument for a

                 crime that had been inflicted on him.

                            The failure there was not the

                 presence or absence of hate, it was the

                 presence of hatred in the form of violence.

                 And shame on those who ran out on their

                 obligation.  Law enforcement must be taken

                 more seriously.

                            We indict, out of every hundred

                 people, I understand there are only four or

                 five that actually end up serving any time at

                 all.

                            Now, I wonder.  Most of the nation

                 has hate crime legislation on the books.  And

                 every state on the Atlantic seaboard, except

                 New York and, I believe, Georgia -

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    South Carolina.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    South Carolina,





                                                          4570



                 I'm sorry.  Thank you.  They're the only two.

                            Is there any less hatred in New

                 Jersey?  Is there any less hatred in

                 Massachusetts?  Has anybody paid any penalty

                 for the violation of this principle?  Go right

                 out to the Pacific Ocean.  Do we have any

                 evidence at all that we can consider here that

                 this is a step that will serve us well in the

                 enforcement of simple morality, simple decency

                 towards our neighbor?

                            We're exhorted to love our neighbor

                 as we love ourselves.  Does this have any

                 demonstrable application?  I suggest that

                 there is nothing -- I don't think anyone can

                 bring us any statistical evidence or changes

                 in the public mores of these states around the

                 country that pledge their allegiance to a myth

                 and diverts us from the real problem that

                 crime that is committed must be punished.

                 That is essential.  That is basic.

                            And whether it's Matthew Shepard's

                 or anybody else's experience, those people in

                 this state, they would be available to capital

                 punishment.  But we've had capital punishment,

                 despite my protestations, for several years.





                                                          4571



                 Has anybody been executed?  I don't think so.

                 I stand to be corrected, but I don't believe

                 anybody has been executed in the state of New

                 York.  Nor am I advocating it.

                            But that is an indication to me

                 that around this country we are very -

                 there's a propensity to embrace these

                 principles, principles of morality that go to

                 the essence of our personality as creatures of

                 a divine God who has given us -- we have an

                 immortal soul.  We have to confront our

                 destiny at some point.  These are profound,

                 spiritual considerations.  We're all subject

                 to that.

                            And we do have our own laws that

                 should be enforced, which is a compact among

                 people to punish that conduct when it results

                 in violence and force, when it results in

                 discrimination against people.  But these are

                 demonstrable on a very tangible basis.

                            So we have nothing, nothing at all

                 to show.  I know that in capital punishment,

                 for instance, the pleas that I heard at that

                 time that it was a terrible -- well, I voted

                 to abolish it.  Then all of a sudden it was





                                                          4572



                 back again.

                            Well, you go to the states that

                 have capital punishment.  Well, there's one

                 state that has had 167 executions within the

                 last 20 years.  But the number of the

                 homicides makes us look like angels here in

                 New York.

                            And that's true from state after

                 state after state.  The ferocity of the

                 punishment does not determine.  It's the fact

                 that a person has elected to do violence to a

                 neighbor, they have inflicted pain and

                 suffering.  And that they should pay.

                            Until we have that determination,

                 we're not going -- we're going to get the

                 mixed results.  Why don't you ask your friends

                 over in New Jersey, in Connecticut, in Rhode

                 Island, in Maine and Vermont, Pennsylvania.

                 Do you think they're going to tell you

                 anything different?  They all have this law.

                 Has it made a difference, a tangible vision

                 that we can see some change in public mores?

                            I know that Senator Padavan had an

                 excellent statement last year:  That is the

                 product of a total culture.  What we learn in





                                                          4573



                 the family, what we learn in our churches,

                 what we learn in our synagogues, in communal

                 gatherings, these are those that formulate and

                 shape human attitudes.  But when that thing is

                 transgressed and violence takes place, then we

                 seem to walk the other way.  It becomes

                 uncomfortable.

                            So I really don't -- I know that

                 reference was made earlier in the debate that

                 Cardinal O'Connor had supported this

                 legislation -- not this specific bill.  But

                 there's a letter that he sent me on April 5th

                 that he disagreed for the reasons that were

                 assigned by Senator Maltese on the kind of

                 legislation and not closing the door.

                            Are there steps, are there things

                 that we can do of a positive nature to share

                 this value and reinforce this value system

                 with our children as they grow, with our

                 society as they interact?  I submit you're not

                 going to do it with this bill.

                            I certainly have nothing but praise

                 for the people who have sponsored this bill,

                 because we know that they're candidly and

                 sincerely committed to a principle that we all





                                                          4574



                 share.  I don't think there's anyone here

                 within range of my voice that doesn't share

                 the feelings that are reflected by Senator

                 Duane or anybody else who's sponsoring this.

                            But it doesn't answer the question.

                 The question is, do we enforce the laws that

                 we have?  Is this a leavening agent that has

                 worked wonders in Connecticut, Illinois,

                 Kentucky, or Minnesota?  I don't know of any

                 state in the union that has profited by

                 embracing this principle.  And most states

                 have.

                            So the best I can say for it, it's

                 at least an expression of a feeling that the

                 people have.  And that the shapers of policy

                 feel that hate is a bad thing.  Well, I would

                 hope that this is -- we don't have to enshrine

                 this on tablets.  Of course it is.  So if it's

                 designed to do that, maybe it has some value.

                            But it has no demonstrable value.

                 Nowhere has this made any difference at all,

                 not one scintilla.  Can you cite any examples

                 where this has worked beneficially in

                 diminishing crime, in diminishing an

                 expression of hatred?  I don't think so.





                                                          4575



                            I am available to persuasion.  The

                 only manifestations I had of hate were some of

                 the letters I received when I voted against

                 the motion to discharge.  And some of them

                 said, "Well, I hope you change your mind."

                 You know, a few of them.  And some of them

                 said, "Well, I have to hate somebody who

                 doesn't hate hate."

                            Well, you know, we're in a circular

                 position nobody ever resolves.  I've never

                 hated anybody in my life, and I don't expect

                 to.  And I don't think most of you, I would

                 say all of you, have the engagement of hatred

                 that would move you to commit a crime.

                            So I would prayerfully suggest that

                 the example we have around the country doesn't

                 help us at all, at all.  And I stand to be

                 turned down on this if you give me examples in

                 other states, in other jurisdictions, where

                 this has worked something positive.

                            So why don't we keep our eye on

                 those affirmative builders of character -

                 good schools, no inhibition about sharing

                 values that are common to all of us, respect

                 for each other, respect as we reflect it here





                                                          4576



                 even in the conduct of our interrelationships.

                 All of these things are very valuable.

                 They're all positive.  And they go to the

                 formation of a conscience.  And it has

                 enormous benefits in all directions.

                            But I do hope that -- however you

                 vote, I'm sure you're voting your conscience,

                 and I respect that.  And I certainly respect

                 those who have sponsored this bill and feel

                 that it offers something.  But it doesn't.  It

                 does not.  This is false gold, iron pyrites or

                 whatever you want to call it.  But the main -

                 we have in our penal code and in our

                 procedures an attempt to be specific about the

                 objective and how we are about to achieve it.

                            So you probably have a notion of

                 how I feel about this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 would Senator Marchi yield for a brief

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marchi, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes.





                                                          4577



                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, on

                 May 9, 1989, the state senate in Connecticut,

                 which at the time had 21 members, passed a

                 hate-crimes legislation.  It already been

                 passed by their house of representatives.  And

                 the governor signed it into law, Connecticut's

                 hate protection legislation, in June of 1989.

                            On the tenth anniversary of that,

                 the bias unit of the attorney general's office

                 in Connecticut reports hate-motivated crimes

                 down 15 percent.  Would that be an example of

                 where one might point to the legislation as

                 being somewhat helpful?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, I'm glad

                 you've done your homework, Senator.  And I had

                 every expectation that you did.

                            No, they say that it's gone down by

                 X percentage -- or even if it was cut in half,

                 has their homicide rate gone down?  Do we know

                 what went into the tabulation and the

                 categorizing of crimes?  No, we don't.

                            I mean, it doesn't stand up under

                 critical analysis.  If you tell me that





                                                          4578



                 there's been a dramatic drop in homicides in

                 the state of Connecticut, then perhaps there

                 may be a correlation.  But I don't know of

                 anything like this around the country.

                            We have a problem that sometimes

                 fluctuates with the economics and

                 permissiveness in a society, but we have no

                 hard facts that we can put in the bank,

                 really, the moral bank, to indicate that we

                 indeed have had a solution to this problem.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  I'll be very brief.

                            As you all know, today here in

                 Albany we have designated Disability Awareness

                 Day.  One of the significant portions of this

                 bill highlights those who are disabled,

                 singling them out -- and rightly so -- for the

                 special protection and attention they deserve.

                            And so I rise to bring that point

                 to your attention.  And I'm sure I need not do

                 that, but for those who had not taken note of

                 it.

                            And also use it as an opportunity





                                                          4579



                 to present to the house and the members some

                 very fine people who are here visiting us

                 today, 11 youngsters from St. Mary's Hospital

                 for Children, who are here visiting us in

                 Albany, watching us.  And they came at a very,

                 very important time, as I told them when we

                 talked before the session began, here in

                 Albany to learn about our Legislature, to see

                 what we do and how we do it and to travel

                 around the Capitol.

                            And they're led by some outstanding

                 people who are staff members at St. Mary's -

                 Laura Bonilla and Mark Hoffacker and Beryl

                 Williams and Rosemary McNamara and Charlie

                 Cunningham and Ann Shirrell and Yi Sung, who's

                 a registered nurse.

                            So I would like all of you to join

                 me in saying welcome to these young people who

                 are here to my left and to my right, and some

                 up in the gallery.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Mr. Chairman, I





                                                          4580



                 believe that my learned colleagues will

                 appreciate the fact that I've eliminated

                 three-quarters of my remarks because of

                 previous statements by speakers.  But I do

                 want to speak briefly.

                            I support this hate-crimes bill

                 because I believe firmly that no person or

                 institution should be the target of a crime on

                 account of bias.  And that the law, when

                 enacted, must come down hard, very hard, on

                 people who perpetuate such crimes.

                            This bill has nothing whatsoever to

                 do with the lifestyles or personal practices

                 or special rights of any individual or group.

                 Nor does the bill confer in any way special

                 rights on any individual or group.

                            It simply sends a message, a most

                 important message, a clear message that

                 society will not tolerate the commission of

                 criminal conduct motivated by bias against any

                 human being, especially those who have

                 suffered as victims from this bias from the

                 earliest days of our republic.  And that is a

                 message which I completely and fully endorse.

                            But others, more prestigious people





                                                          4581



                 than me, have also endorsed this position.

                 Mr. Chairman, I commend the Governor, who has

                 obviously patterned this bill on the Wisconsin

                 versus Mitchell antibias bill which reached

                 the United States Supreme Court in 1993.  The

                 majority decision, the nine to zero decision,

                 was written by Chief Justice William

                 Rehnquist, appointed chief justice of the

                 United States by President Ronald Reagan, and

                 who is probably the most conservative chief

                 justice in three-quarters of a century.

                            The decision was also approved by

                 every member of the U.S. Supreme Court,

                 including a man who is today considered one of

                 the brightest and yet one of the most

                 conservative members of the U.S. Supreme

                 Court, Justice Antonin Scalia, also appointed

                 to the U.S. Supreme Court by President Ronald

                 Reagan.

                            Now, these justices acted on a

                 nonpartisan manner, just as I hope today we

                 will act on a nonpartisan manner.  They acted

                 in dealing with upholding the Wisconsin law.

                 This bill before us today in New York is also

                 a nonpartisan bill that condemns bias crimes





                                                          4582



                 and nothing else.

                            In 1993, the U.S. Supreme Court

                 said that bias crimes will not be tolerated in

                 the state of Wisconsin.  We today, in the year

                 2000, have the opportunity to agree with the

                 United States Supreme Court and say that bias

                 crimes will never again be condoned in the

                 State of New York.

                            Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Balboni.

                            I'm sorry, Senator Stavisky, why do

                 you rise?

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Oh, there's a

                 list?  I'm sorry.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            When I first arrived at the State

                 Assembly in 1990, I would regularly debate

                 Steve Sanders on this bill.  And the reason

                 for the debate was the reason that has been

                 heard around this chamber, that the bill

                 creates an artificial justice system:  Why





                                                          4583



                 should anyone get more time than someone else

                 if they're injured the same, if the same act

                 of violence is done against them?

                            And then I believe it was 1996, I

                 sat and I had a very long talk with my good

                 friend Steve Sanders.  And I began to

                 understand that there is a place in our law

                 for making statements.  There is a place in

                 our law to teach our children and the

                 generations of children that are coming behind

                 us that there are certain things we cannot

                 tolerate.

                            It's very easy to be here in this

                 chamber and to consider the niceties and what

                 a wonderful life we have.  But there's another

                 reality out there.  There are communities in

                 this state and in this nation who are fearful.

                 You have communities that don't trust police

                 officers, and police don't trust them.  You

                 have communities that worry about religious

                 actions against them, religious intolerance

                 actions, religious violence actions.

                            We would like to think that we are

                 one people.  We are not.  There's a great

                 divide that needs to be addressed.  I'm not





                                                          4584



                 sure that the deterrent in this bill is

                 actually going to save somebody from injury.

                 I'm not sure if this scheme is actually going

                 to eradicate any acts of violence.

                            But I know this.  This is a bill

                 that we're doing today because we're taking a

                 step to say we cannot tolerate it.  And for

                 this chamber, for leaders like Joe Bruno to

                 come to this issue with thoughtful

                 considerations and to consider a path that

                 will take us together is very, very important.

                            Senator Bruno, I know that this was

                 difficult.  A lot of things came into your

                 considerations.  This is an act of courage and

                 leadership.  And leadership is not always

                 about being popular, it's not always about

                 doing things that everybody agrees with.  It's

                 usually doing things that people don't always

                 agree with you on.  This is leadership, and

                 this is right for the state.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Out of deference

                 to my colleagues' times, we'd like to ask,





                                                          4585



                 while we're having this discussion continued,

                 for an immediate meeting of the Rules

                 Committee in Room 332.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 There will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Rules Committee in Room 332.

                            Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I'm proud to have my name on this

                 bill as a cosponsor along with Senators

                 Goodman, Lack and Spano.  And I too want to

                 thank our Majority Leader, Senator Bruno, for

                 making this day possible.

                            This is indeed one of those

                 momentous occasions when we should be proud of

                 the step that we're taking.  Not because it's

                 another piece of legislation, but because it's

                 part of that enormous process by which America

                 cleanses itself of prejudices in a darker

                 time.

                            State by state, as our Constitution

                 has ordered, we are making the changes that

                 will bring us into an era of enlightenment.

                 And it's no longer acceptable to simply ignore





                                                          4586



                 the fact that there is hatred.  It may not be

                 hatred on a grand scale that it once was, but

                 it's still there.  And it's no longer

                 acceptable to ignore prejudice or all forms of

                 bias, no matter mow minuscule they may seem to

                 people who are not affected by them.

                            It is incumbent upon each of us as

                 an American, and certainly in this arena, as

                 New York State representatives, it is

                 incumbent on us to find ways that we can help

                 bring about that equality on this country was

                 originally founded.

                            I've had a unique opportunity over

                 these last few days to be with a group of

                 young people that were embarked on a process

                 to study the civil rights movement in hopes of

                 learning something from that experience to

                 bring home that would make them better

                 citizens.

                            Back in 1996, I started a program

                 by which I take high school students while

                 they're juniors from Central New York down to

                 Mississippi.  The reason we go to Mississippi

                 is because I was a civil rights worker 30

                 years ago myself.  And I remember how it





                                                          4587



                 changed me.

                            And when I found myself face to

                 face with people who had encountered the most

                 unspeakable criminal actions directed against

                 them and yet had no opportunity to seek

                 justice, I found that I wanted to become more

                 involved in this system of ours, this great

                 democracy, in an attempt to bring a change to

                 some of those inequities.

                            And it's comforting for me today to

                 know that we are still in that process, that

                 today's action is yet another step that will

                 ensure equality for Americans.  I like it when

                 I hear people talking about this as a symbolic

                 measure.  If in fact this is a symbolic

                 measure, it means that we have really come a

                 long way.  And if it is only necessary to have

                 it there to remind people that hatred is not

                 tolerated, then we can be very proud.

                            I'm not so sure it's a purely

                 symbolic gesture.  I recognize some of the

                 things that have happened.  I listened with

                 real interest to what Senator Paterson was

                 describing.  Once again, he's shown that he is

                 a scholar as well as a gentleman, because he





                                                          4588



                 can recount with chapter and verse and

                 tremendous specificity the situations that

                 have occurred here in New York State that

                 clearly indicate that hatred does still exist.

                            But we are taking a step today that

                 says we will not allow that hatred to take

                 place.  We are directing people in other

                 branches of government and in law enforcement

                 to take steps to prevent hatred from taking

                 place.  We are telling young people that we as

                 a state government are still committed to

                 rooting out that evil that we know is hatred

                 wherever we see it and any way that we can.

                            This is much bigger than simply a

                 piece of legislation.  It marks the changing

                 of minds of many, many people and a continuing

                 process in the cleansing of our country of

                 evil and hatred.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Coppola.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, very briefly.

                            It was just a few weeks ago that

                 Senator Bruno said that he'd be back with the

                 bill.  And I want to applaud him for keeping





                                                          4589



                 his word.  Because this is very important to

                 the State of New York, that we join the other

                 48 states that already have a hate-crime bill

                 on record.

                            The fact of the matter is this is

                 not a Republican bill or a Democratic bill,

                 this is a human, human bill for all of the

                 state of New York.  When we leave our

                 synagogues, when we leave our Protestant

                 churches and our Catholic churches, we all

                 pray for one another that there's peace and no

                 violence out there.  Well, this will help.

                 This sends a message.

                            And people have, I think, concerns

                 that this bill won't be powerful enough, that

                 this won't prevent the violence that's out

                 there.  Well, believe it or not, when the Ten

                 Commandments were handed down, we've had

                 violence ever since.  But the fact is, we have

                 to keep working at it.  We have to keep

                 striving for peace.  We have to take to one

                 another, working together as one.

                            And that's what this bill does.

                 We're working together as one, no matter how

                 opinionated people feel about it.  But the





                                                          4590



                 fact is, there is violence out there.  And

                 this Senate today is showing a tremendous

                 amount of leadership.

                            Again, I want to applaud Senator

                 Bruno.  I can understand the feeling and the

                 anxiety that Senator Paterson must have had

                 all of these years when he started way back

                 when.  The leadership under Senators Connor

                 and Duane, for their persistence.

                            But Senator Paterson explained from

                 his heart how he felt about the incidents that

                 took place 11 years ago and that his hands

                 were tied when he tried to do something about

                 it.  And I think we should all understand

                 that.  And that's what's important today.

                            So again, I'm proud to be a member

                 of this Senate, and I'm proud to be voting on

                 this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator M. Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Thank you

                 very much, Mr. President.

                            As one of the newer members of this

                 body, I think I have the distinct pleasure in

                 experiencing what I consider to have been some





                                                          4591



                 very significant things over the last two

                 months.  There's been some very dramatic

                 sessions.  There's been some very dramatic

                 events that have occurred in the entire state

                 government as it relates to this body and our

                 sister body in the Assembly.

                            But I can tell you, Mr. President,

                 there is nothing more significant than to be a

                 part of this august body during a time in

                 which I believe history will record that we

                 have done something today that has never been

                 done before in this body -- and that is bring

                 forward a particular piece of legislation that

                 will not only impact on the lives of many of

                 those who have felt to this day they have not

                 gotten their fair, just due as relates to hate

                 crimes, but will also represent a group of

                 individuals who for so long have been

                 considered to be individuals who do not

                 deserve to have the kind of significant laws

                 on the books that will protect their rights

                 and protect them as individuals.

                            I am extremely honored and pleased

                 to be a part of this body at this point in

                 time, because I know when history records what





                                                          4592



                 we have done today, there will be many of

                 those who will look to see who was a part of

                 it and who were the individuals who raised

                 their hand aye for this particular bill.

                            I also want to tip my hat and say

                 to Senator Paterson, who had the foresight

                 years ago to introduce legislation of this

                 kind -- and as he said during his eloquent

                 statement, there were those who looked at him

                 kind of cynically.  I must say to him that he

                 has broad shoulders, and he has the fortitude

                 and the foresight to bring forth this piece of

                 the legislation then, and so also he should be

                 credited to the fact that he has still brought

                 forth this particular piece of legislation

                 now.

                            To my colleague to the right, and

                 my most honored friend, who I have had the

                 fortunate ability to sit next to and hear many

                 times his concern on a matter that I think

                 heretofore many people have not offered the

                 type of respect nor response to, I am happy

                 for him today.  I am happy for him because we

                 have in so many words said to him and to many

                 of his friends and associates that we respect





                                                          4593



                 his opinion, we respect him as an individual,

                 and he as well as individuals around this

                 state deserve to be treated fairly in all

                 different points of view of life.

                            Also, I would say that to everybody

                 in this body, as one again who has the

                 privilege to be sort of a new -- and yet an

                 outsider, to a degree, because I have not had

                 the experience to be a part of so many things

                 that you have done, I will tell you what you

                 are doing for the citizens of this state

                 today.  You are making them believe that they

                 have a voice in what goes on in this state.

                            There is a great deal of cynicism

                 that arises throughout this state around

                 politics and those who are involved in it.

                 There are many who tend to believe that they

                 have no influence in all that occurs in bodies

                 like this as well as in the Assembly, in the

                 Council down in the City.  But today we are

                 proving to them that not only do we have a

                 conscience, but we are also at a new level of

                 consciousness, and that new level of

                 consciousness says that they also count.

                            So it gives me great pleasure and





                                                          4594



                 it gives me an honor to have the opportunity

                 to speak today on this particular bill.  And I

                 am so happy that this will be the day that

                 history will record that we have adopted a

                 hate-crimes bill.

                            Thank you very much, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            About two weeks ago in Senator

                 Stavisky's district, just north of my

                 district, there was a terrible crime committed

                 that most are familiar with that was not a

                 hate crime, where two individuals went into a

                 Wendy's and shot seven people in the head in

                 the course of robbing the store of $2,000,

                 killing five of them and seriously injuring

                 the other two.

                            Not a hate crime.  And in addition

                 to just the scope of the crime creating such

                 an impression with everybody, I believe what

                 struck a chord in so many who have followed

                 that tragic case is that the crime was simply

                 mindless.  Absolutely unnecessary, mindless.





                                                          4595



                            That's what hate crimes are,

                 absolutely mindless.  Just like what happened

                 in February in Senator Libous's district on

                 the campus of SUNY Binghamton, when three

                 Asian-American students were attacked by three

                 members of the wrestling team because they

                 were Asian-American and no other reason.  No

                 other reason.  One of them had a skull

                 fracture and a concussion and took days and

                 days to recuperate in the hospital.

                            So I have heard the discussion and

                 the debate here today and have participated in

                 it since I've been a member of the Senate and

                 have had the opportunity to vote on our

                 motions to discharge numerous times.  And I

                 would say the following.

                            To those who believe that this is

                 more perception than reality, I suggest to you

                 that the perception of somebody who now will

                 languish in a prison cell for a longer period

                 of time because of his mindless stupidity,

                 that person is not going to be the victim of

                 perception, that person will be the victim of

                 the reality that we created for them here

                 today.





                                                          4596



                            And I know it was suggested earlier

                 by Senator Maltese that it somehow

                 disenfranchises individuals who are not the

                 victims of hate crimes, that are victims of

                 other crimes, if we provide for additional

                 penalties for those who commit bias crimes.

                            And I would suggest to Senator

                 Maltese the following.  If he believes that

                 the current penalties for assault and arson

                 and rape and what have you are insufficient,

                 then bring us the legislation to increase

                 those penalties, particularly for recidivists,

                 for second-time offenders, and I'll vote yes

                 on all of those bills.

                            But don't suggest to me that we

                 can't deter criminal behavior in the area of

                 bias crimes by providing these additional

                 penalties.  And Senator Padavan provided the

                 evidence of it today.

                            But I'll go you one even further.

                 I believe that even if the legislation that

                 we're going to pass today will not be a

                 deterrent for bias crimes, that we should pass

                 it anyway, because bias crimes are the most

                 heinous, ugly, sick crimes that can be





                                                          4597



                 committed.  And they are almost always

                 committed by stupid, ignorant people who are

                 ascribing blame on someone else to compensate

                 for their own failures and shortcomings.

                            And as a consequence, and because

                 we live in the most diverse state of any state

                 in the United States -- or anywhere else in

                 the planet, frankly, and my county is the most

                 diverse county in the world -- that for us to

                 fail to send a message that we're going to

                 sufficiently punish -- forget deterrence for a

                 second -- punish people who commit these

                 horrendous, horrendous crimes as a consequence

                 of their own stupidity, that's just wrong.

                 And we've been wrong with it for the last 11

                 years.

                            And so, you know, I commend Senator

                 Bruno for keeping his word and bringing this

                 legislation to the floor today.  I would wish

                 he had made that promise years and years ago.

                 Because people have been victimized as a

                 consequence of our failure.

                            So the message today is, the

                 message today is bigots of New York State,

                 look out.  Because we're not going to tolerate





                                                          4598



                 it anymore.  And if you commit an A

                 misdemeanor and you did it because somebody

                 was Jewish or Catholic or Asian or what have

                 you, now you've just committed an E felony.

                 Longer jail sentence.  If you committed an E

                 felony, it's now a D felony.  And on and on

                 and on and on.

                            And we're sending the message to

                 all the bigots out there, New York State is

                 not going to tolerate it.  You want to attack

                 somebody because they're gay?  We weren't able

                 to, through education or through your

                 upbringing, prevent that?  Okay, that's

                 unfortunate, but now you're going to deal with

                 the consequences.  The consequences are higher

                 penalties.  Higher penalties.

                            And for all those people who would

                 commit hate crimes because they weren't

                 thinking or what have you, let the word go

                 out.  And the word will go out.  Because when

                 the first series of people are prosecuted

                 under our new hate-crimes statute, you will

                 see in plain print in all the newspapers the

                 additional penalties, the longer terms of

                 incarceration that they'll be subject to.  And





                                                          4599



                 they'll be sitting in jail.  They'll be

                 sitting in jail.

                            And I believe it will be a

                 deterrent.  And even if it's not a deterrent,

                 then to heck with all those people who

                 committed these terrible crimes for absolutely

                 no reason.  We're sending the strongest

                 message possible today.

                            So now it's time for kudos, which

                 go to every member of the Democratic

                 conference who have been fighting for this for

                 so for very long, including Senator Lachman

                 and Senator Connor, Senator Paterson.

                            And most of all, Senator Duane, who

                 I must say his entire career has been

                 exemplary in terms of the courage that he has

                 demonstrated, fighting one obstacle, one

                 barrier after another, trailblazing, treading

                 on ground that people have not tread on that

                 came before him, just taking on issues that

                 are important to him, his constituents and the

                 entire constituency of the State of New York.

                            Tom Duane is a hero.  He forced us

                 to recognize that we have to act.

                            And I commend everybody else who,





                                                          4600



                 even though they don't think it might be

                 effective, agreed to allow the vote to be

                 taken today.  That's courageous in and of

                 itself.  And it speaks to the imperative that

                 we should have in both the Senate and the

                 Assembly to open up the process a little bit

                 more, let democracy really reign true, and let

                 more bills come to the floor that everyone

                 will be able to have their input on and

                 consider.  That's democracy.

                            Today's process of bringing it to

                 the floor shows that we have the votes to pass

                 this, that it has been the popular will of the

                 people of New York State to punish and deter

                 bias crimes for years and years and years.

                 And we just haven't done it.

                            And it took the advocacy of some

                 exceedingly courageous individuals -- not just

                 the legislators here, but all of the victims

                 who testified before task force committee

                 meetings and what have you that their crimes

                 could have been prevented and that they should

                 be more sufficiently punished than is allowed

                 under current law.

                            So, Senator Duane, hats off to you





                                                          4601



                 for all your work on this.  This is not the

                 end.  This will not stop bias crimes from

                 occurring.  We need to educate.  We need to

                 preach tolerance.  We need to get into the

                 schools and make sure that children don't grow

                 up with racist tendencies, with bigoted

                 tendencies and what have you.

                            Because nobody is born a racist.

                 That is a learned behavior.  Nobody is

                 prejudiced when they come out of the womb.

                 That is a learned behavior in every single

                 circumstance.

                            So why we would think that when you

                 have a punishment and public discourse and

                 debate about this learned behavior that it

                 wouldn't have an impact on individuals who are

                 predisposed to being racists or bigots or

                 prejudiced or hating gay people or blacks or

                 whites or whatever they are -- to think that

                 wouldn't have an impact is just wrong.

                            And we're going to see now.  And

                 thank God for that.  Because we can't

                 legislate common sense in this state, but we

                 sure as hell can make sure that individuals

                 who commit crimes based on their own stupidity





                                                          4602



                 and punish other people in this state just

                 because of who they are, which should be

                 celebrated instead of scorned, that those

                 people pay a heavy price.

                            That's what we're doing today.  I

                 vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I too want to commend the people

                 who were responsible for bring this measure to

                 the floor, not only in this legislative body

                 but also those who contributed to the

                 education process of others.

                            There were young people here a few

                 minutes ago, and I think it is for them as

                 well that we debate to its fullest extent the

                 hate-crimes law.

                            Now, Senator Hevesi referred to the

                 terrible, terrible tragedy that occurred on

                 Main Street in Flushing, in my district.  And

                 obviously this was not -- this was not a hate

                 crime.

                            But there was a crime that occurred





                                                          4603



                 several months ago, not very far away -- but

                 not in my district -- where an individual was

                 arrested for pasting Nazi stickers.  Now, this

                 individual who was arrested, he's been charged

                 with a crime.  Obviously he can't be charged

                 with a hate crime.  But when he was arrested,

                 they found an assault weapon in his house and

                 information on how to make bombs.  And this is

                 all part of the kind of person who will commit

                 a hate crime.

                            So I commend the people who were

                 here earlier from St. Mary's Hospital, a

                 hospital which I have visited on a number of

                 occasions.  And they were able to see how a

                 legislative body, people on both sides of the

                 aisle, working cooperatively and

                 constructively, can enact a meaningful piece

                 of legislation.

                            I am, I guess, the third newest

                 member, but I'm very proud, Mr. President, to

                 be able to vote for this bill today.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,





                                                          4604



                 Mr. President.

                            I commend many people for their

                 work in bringing this bill to the floor.  But

                 I couldn't let it go without just responding

                 quickly to two things, one that my colleague

                 Senator Marchi said, and the other that my

                 colleague Senator Maltese said.

                            Senator Maltese said that he

                 wouldn't vote for any bill that attaches

                 greater penalties to victims of crime by

                 virtue of who they were.  I would point out

                 that we've done that all the time.

                            My gosh, we increase penalties if

                 you assault a police officer.  We've done

                 bills that increase penalties if you assault a

                 teacher.  We increase penalties if you try to

                 defraud somebody who's over 65.  If they're 64

                 years and 364 days, they don't hit the 65-year

                 threshold, it's a lesser penalty than the next

                 day when they're 65 years old.

                            We've done that all the time.  We

                 create different categories of crime depending

                 on who the victim is and depending on what the

                 perpetrator knows about the victim.  We've

                 done that all the time.  This bill breaks no





                                                          4605



                 new ground in that area.

                            The second thing, and with respect

                 to Senator Marchi and Senator Maltese as well,

                 I guess I'm always astonished by the position

                 of the Catholic Conference on this bill.  I

                 was taught in the Catholic schools that I went

                 to that it was in the mere formation in your

                 own mind of the hate that constituted

                 sinfulness.  Whether you acted on that hate or

                 not was a different level of sin.  But it was

                 the creation in your own mind, the intent in

                 your own mind that was the beginning of the

                 downward spiral towards sin.

                            And it seems to me that what this

                 bill says is that if you commit an ordinary

                 crime with that hate, with that intent, you

                 are going to be more severely punished.

                            I couldn't think of anything based

                 on my Catholic teaching that is more

                 consistent with the fundamental belief of the

                 Catholic Church than to pass this bill.  Make

                 intent matter.  If you hate someone, you have

                 already started down the road on that moral

                 path of decline.

                            All we're saying is in this bill if





                                                          4606



                 your conduct is motivated by that hate, it

                 should be punished in a greater way.  I'm

                 astounded by the Church's seeming retreat from

                 that fundamental basis of our faith.

                            I'll address one final point and

                 sit down.  I believe that this bill -- and I'm

                 going to vote in favor of it -- doesn't quite

                 go far enough.  And I'll tell you why.

                 Senator Hevesi talked about it.

                            I'm concerned about big criminals,

                 but I'm also concerned about the little

                 criminal.  I'm concerned about someone who

                 believes that carving a swastika into a park

                 bench in Brighton or putting it in the sand on

                 a beach in Mamaroneck is simply malicious

                 damage and not a crime of hate.

                            I'm concerned that someone who

                 walks into a cemetery and turns over only the

                 stones that have the Star of David on it, that

                 that's a mere trespass.

                            I'm concerned about someone who

                 sprays racial epithets on the walls of the

                 Roger Robach bathhouse in Charlotte in

                 Rochester, New York, and then what they're

                 charged with is being a graffiti artist.





                                                          4607



                            I'm amazed that someone who can

                 burn a cross on another person's lawn ends up

                 charged with trespassing.

                            And I'm also concerned, Senator

                 March, that someone in Brooklyn or Queens who

                 is cutting off the fingers of statues of the

                 Blessed Virgin Mary, that that is simply

                 malicious or disorderly conduct.

                            I would suggest that the one flaw

                 in this bill is that it doesn't quite go far

                 enough.  It doesn't say to those who commit

                 trespasses by turning over only the Star of

                 David cemetery stones that that is not just

                 trespass, that's a hate crime, and that's a

                 criminal.  That's someone who's being taught

                 at a young age that it's okay to do that to

                 personal property, and the leap from there to

                 committing a crime against a person is a small

                 jump.

                            I hope that the message we send

                 with this bill is that we will no longer

                 tolerate little haters.  We will no longer

                 allow the seed of hate sown in the stereotypes

                 of the past to bloom into the rage, the venom,

                 and the hate that can destroy a society.





                                                          4608



                            We have to send a message to

                 everyone that even if you commit a hate crime

                 as a youth, that this is not a joke, it is not

                 funny.  We as a society will not tolerate your

                 hate when you're young, we will not tolerate

                 if when you're old, we will not tolerate it

                 for minor crimes, we will not tolerate it for

                 major crimes.

                            To all those who have the seeds of

                 hate in their heart, I say to them beware, we

                 in this state will not tolerate your hatred in

                 its infancy or in its adulthood.  It should

                 end with this bill becoming law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I will be brief.  I think

                 we're coming to the conclusion of this debate.

                            And it's hard to believe, after

                 listening to all this, it took us 11 years to

                 do this.  I think the holdup of this bill all

                 these years it's been passing the Assembly

                 really reflects the fact that we have in this

                 house ideological barriers to many commonsense

                 bills that will make the lives of New Yorkers





                                                          4609



                 better.

                            I hope the ideological barriers are

                 falling.  It's no secret that for years we

                 could have passed a hate-crimes bill if we

                 were willing to take out gay people, if we

                 were willing to take out sexual orientation.

                 It is a tribute to Senator Paterson and the

                 other members of the Black and Hispanic Caucus

                 that they were not willing to settle for that.

                            But I think we have to, while we're

                 patting ourselves on the back on this, also

                 take an honest look at why it took so long for

                 this house to recognize that gay New Yorkers

                 exist and that prejudice against gay New

                 Yorkers exists.  This is the first time, I

                 believe, that the statutes of the State of New

                 York will reflect that fact, which I think all

                 of us are aware of.

                            An ideology should not present us

                 from seeing reality.  Gay people exist.

                 There's prejudice against them.  It's now in

                 the statutes, and now maybe we can move

                 forward to get civil rights treatment,

                 domestic partner benefits, and all the other

                 rights and privileges that are our fundamental





                                                          4610



                 property as New Yorkers and as Americans.

                            I'm sorry it took 11 years.  I'm

                 happy we're doing it today.  I commend

                 everyone who's been so active on this.  And

                 the good news is Senator Duane is not coming

                 to visit you anymore about this.  The bad news

                 is he's still coming to visit you, but it's

                 about something else.

                            So with that, let me defer to my

                 colleague and commend him for his work on this

                 issue.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I don't know where my attackers are

                 today.  I'm pretty sure that I would recognize

                 them if I saw them again, but I just don't

                 know where they are today.  And for them, I

                 was just another queer left to bleed in an

                 emergency room.

                            You know, as my life has moved

                 along since then and I was eventually elected

                 to the Senate, I've wondered very often what I

                 would tell my attackers if the day ever came





                                                          4611



                 when the state enacted meaningful hate-crimes

                 legislation.  And after much thought and

                 deliberation, I've come to some fairly simple

                 conclusions about what I would tell them.

                            First, this isn't strictly a happy

                 day or a day of celebration.  In fact, it's

                 really more of a bittersweet day.  Certainly

                 it's a day where we should celebrate our

                 accomplishment, and we should celebrate that

                 whether we're Democrats or Republicans.  But

                 it's also a very, very sad day.

                            In fact, as I really think about

                 it, and as I've thought about it through the

                 years, I knew that it was going to be one of

                 the saddest days of my life as well.  Because

                 today is a day that I and I think we as a

                 body -- and, when the bill is signed into law,

                 as a state and a society -- we're going to

                 have to finally acknowledge to ourselves and

                 the people in this state that there are those

                 of us there that are so fueled by, motivated

                 by hate and prejudice that people will still

                 be murdered, some will be raped, others

                 brutally attacked, some people will have their

                 houses burned down, and others will have their





                                                          4612



                 religious institutions desecrated.

                            This certainly isn't going to end

                 that.  And for those who are consumed by the

                 hate that leads them to take part in this kind

                 of violence or perpetrate this kind of

                 violence, I'm also sad to say that they're

                 going to have to spend a good portion of their

                 lives behind prison walls.

                            And I also hope that we'll be able

                 to keep a place in our hearts for those who

                 are so damaged that for whatever reason

                 they've lashed out with hatred and violence

                 and been perpetrators.  And that they, unlike

                 their victims, will be safe while they're

                 incarcerated, and I hope rehabilitated while

                 they're incarcerated.

                            And I would certainly tell my

                 attackers that while I'm saddened by today's

                 actions, I'm not ashamed.  I'm not ashamed of

                 who I am.  I'm not ashamed of what happened to

                 me.

                            And I'd also like to say that today

                 we are saying that this state will not

                 tolerate violence based on hate, that we know

                 that hate spreads destruction, and that today





                                                          4613



                 we are taking a giant step to stop the

                 terrible violence of hate.  And that someday,

                 regardless of our sexual orientation, our

                 gender, our race, religion, ethnicity or

                 disability, we can all feel safe and protected

                 in this state, a state which has unlimited

                 potential.  That's what I would tell my

                 attackers.

                            And I'd be telling my attackers

                 that I'm voting yes to commit myself and the

                 state to making this next generation the last

                 generation of hate and violence, and voting

                 yes with the hope and goal that one day our

                 state will be a state of safety and tolerance

                 for all.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, why do you rise?





                                                          4614



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I just want

                 to explain my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I just want

                 to say that this is a very important day for

                 me too, because as many of you know I have

                 spoken often about the horrible incident that

                 happened in my village of Mamaroneck where we

                 had many homes defaced on the peninsula on

                 which I live with not only swastikas but

                 statements like "Kill all the Jews" and "Burn

                 the cancer within us" and just unbelievably

                 horrible things.

                            The entire community was so

                 appalled by this that, as I have mentioned

                 before to you, we ended up marching, the

                 entire community, marching from synagogue to

                 church to synagogue to church, 2,000 of us, to

                 show that this was not a community where we

                 could tolerate this.

                            And now we have a law which also

                 says it cannot be tolerated.  It took us a

                 long time.  This happened in my community

                 eight years ago, and we have been very anxious





                                                          4615



                 in my community to see this happen.  So I am

                 very pleased that finally, through the efforts

                 of many, many people -- Marty Connor -- well,

                 just too many.  I'm not going to mention them

                 all.

                            But it has happened, and I am very

                 appreciative that it has happened.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read

                 the results.

                            Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.  I'm

                 voting no on this resolution.

                            And it's not because I believe that

                 hate is not a bad thing.  Nor is it because I

                 have any particular feelings one way or the

                 other for one group or other that's listed as

                 the class of individuals that this act is to

                 prevent assaults on or prevent the various

                 crimes on.

                            I simply feel that a law should be

                 a law.  A criminal law should be a criminal

                 law.  And whether you are hated because you

                 are 4 foot 2 or you're hated because you are

                 of a certain religion or a certain lifestyle,





                                                          4616



                 no matter what the reason is that a person

                 committed a crime, the punishment -- there

                 should be the same crime for all of those

                 individuals.  And the punishment can be meted

                 out accordingly, based upon the broad

                 discretion that a judge has in determining

                 sentencing.

                            So my point is simply this.  We

                 should not single out any classes of

                 individuals against whom crimes are committed

                 and provide different treatment.  And for

                 those reasons, I'm going to vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 negative on Calendar Number 1316 are Senators

                 DeFrancisco, Farley, Kuhl, Larkin, Libous,

                 Maltese, Marchi, Maziarz, McGee, Nozzolio,

                 Volker, and Wright.  Ayes, 48.  Nays, 12.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up Calendar Number 1315.  I

                 ask that it be read for the purposes of





                                                          4617



                 Senator Spano and Senator Lack and Senator

                 Rath voting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1315, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1638B,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 the crime of partial birth abortion.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Yes.





                                                          4618



                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Wait a minute,

                 wait a minute.  We are not -- the bill -- the

                 last section is being read and the roll called

                 for those who must catch a plane.

                            For those of you who do not have to

                 catch a plane, we should hang in a little bit

                 longer.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Rosado.

                            SENATOR ROSADO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Santiago.

                            SENATOR SANTIAGO:    No.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please recognize

                 Senator Padavan.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Padavan.





                                                          4619



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    And Senator

                 Kruger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Kruger.

                            SENATOR KRUGER:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator M. Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Skelos.  Senator Skelos, could we just

                 slow down a little bit.

                            Senator Lachman, how are you

                 voting?

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator M. Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:





                                                          4620



                 Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Can we withdraw

                 the roll call, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 roll call is withdrawn, Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could

                 please take up Calendar Number 1315.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    It's

                 before the house now, Senator.





                                                          4621



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Senator Maltese,

                 I believe there's an explanation that's been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    This is a bill

                 that most of us are very familiar with.  It

                 first passed the Senate in the 1995-'96 term.

                 It's an act to amend the Penal Law in relation

                 to the crime of partial birth abortion.

                            This bill would ban abortions that

                 are performed by a person who delivers a

                 living fetus into the vagina and then kills

                 the fetus.  The bill specifically defines a

                 partial birth abortion as an abortion in which

                 the person performing the abortion partially

                 vaginally -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Maltese, if I could just interrupt you

                 for a second.

                            Can we could have some order in the

                 house, please.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    -- partially





                                                          4622



                 vaginally delivers a living fetus before

                 killing the fetus and completing the delivery.

                            Persons who violate the law would

                 be subject to criminal penalties, but no

                 penalty could be applied to the woman who

                 obtains such an abortion.

                            The partial birth abortion

                 procedure is often used for second trimester

                 abortions from 20 to 24 weeks.  It can be used

                 in the third trimester, and in some cases is

                 performed up until the ninth month.

                            The procedure consists of the

                 induced partial delivery of the fetus in a

                 breech position.  When only the head remains

                 in the birth canal, surgical scissors,

                 Metzenbaum scissors are inserted into the back

                 of the head, and the brain of the fetus is

                 removed.

                            Dr. Martin Haskell of Dayton, Ohio,

                 a pioneer in this inhumane technique who wrote

                 a paper describing this procedure, wrote that

                 he routinely performs this procedure on all

                 patients who have been pregnant for 20 weeks

                 or more.  In his experience, 80 percent of the

                 abortions were purely elective and had nothing





                                                          4623



                 to do with the health of the mother or of the

                 baby.  He further noted that these abortions

                 are performed only under local anesthesia,

                 which he claimed had no effect on the baby.

                            This devastating procedure is

                 nothing less than murder and cannot be

                 justified.

                            Now, this bill, as has been

                 indicated numerous times that it's been before

                 the Congress of the United States, has very

                 much bipartisan support, not only in this

                 house and in the Assembly, but in the

                 Congress.  Noted New York legislators like

                 Senator Moynihan support the bill.  Noted

                 public figures and past executives, like the

                 Mayor of the City of New York Ed Koch, support

                 this legislation.

                            In 1998, the House overrode the

                 President's veto by a 296-to-132 vote.  The

                 Senate fell three votes short but still

                 managed to attain a 64-to-36 vote in the

                 Senate for this procedure.

                            I'd like to -- and recognizing that

                 many of our colleagues who had heard the

                 debate many times in the past had to leave for





                                                          4624



                 obligations in their district, I'll try to be

                 shorter, briefer than usual.  But I think it's

                 important to refer back to Roe versus Wade and

                 Justice Blackmun's opinion of the court:

                            "The state has a legitimate

                 interest in seeing to it that abortion, like

                 any other medical procedure, is performed

                 under circumstances that ensure maximum safety

                 for the patient.  Moreover, the risk for the

                 woman increases as her pregnancy continues."

                            And this is the portion that I want

                 to stress:  "Thus, the state retains a

                 definite interest in protecting the woman's

                 own health and safety when an abortion is

                 proposed at a late stage of pregnancy.

                            "The third reason is in the state's

                 interest.  Some phrase it in terms of a duty

                 in protecting prenatal life.  Some of the

                 argument for this justification rests on the

                 theory that a new human life is present from

                 the moment of conception.  The state's

                 interest and general obligation to protect

                 life then extends, it is argued, to prenatal

                 life.  Only when the life of the pregnant

                 mother herself is at stake, balanced against





                                                          4625



                 the life she carries within her, should the

                 interests of the embryo or fetus not prevail."

                            And I'd like to repeat that again

                 for emphasis:  "Only when the life of the

                 pregnant mother herself is at stake, balanced

                 against the life she carries within her,

                 should the interests of the embryo or fetus

                 not prevail."

                            "Logically, of course, a legitimate

                 state interest in this area need not stand or

                 fall on acceptance of the belief that life

                 begins against at conception or at some other

                 point prior to live birth.  In assessing the

                 state's interest, recognition may be given to

                 the less rigid claim that as long as at least

                 potential life is involved, the state may

                 assert interests beyond the protection of the

                 pregnant woman alone."

                            I'd like to -- just putting this in

                 some context, there's been much made of the

                 fact that the bill itself does not limit the

                 criminality of the partial birth abortion to a

                 post-20-week pregnancy.

                            The reason for this -- and it's

                 unfortunate to go into graphic detail, but we





                                                          4626



                 are in an area that's a very emotional area.

                 And that reason is that the fetus itself

                 cannot be turned around.  The muscle tissue,

                 the texture of the skin is not sufficient to

                 hold together when the instrument is inserted

                 and turn the baby around if it's much prior to

                 the 20-week period.

                            And I'd like to just say what

                 occurs at that 20-week period.  The head is

                 now visible.  The mother -- the baby will

                 display a startled reaction to loud, sudden

                 noises.  The baby can suck a thumb or fingers

                 and stroke parts of its own body, the amniotic

                 wall, or the umbilical cord.  The sex of the

                 child can be clearly determined.

                            To cover an area that we have not

                 gone into in any length in the past, I'd like

                 to just refer to an area that in the past has

                 not been made very clear because of

                 information on both sides.  And that's the

                 area of fetal pain and the pain that can be

                 felt by the fetus or the baby, the then-unborn

                 baby.

                            As I had indicated, some of the

                 doctors who perform this technique indicated





                                                          4627



                 at various times either that the anesthesia

                 applied to the mother either went to the baby

                 and anesthetized the baby or did not.  Now,

                 because of Congressional testimony and because

                 of the study that's been made, Professor

                 Robert White, director of the division of

                 neurosurgeon and brain research laboratory at

                 Case Western Reserve School of Medicine

                 testified at a June 15, 1995, House Judiciary

                 Committee hearing:  "The fetus, within this

                 time frame of gestation, 20 weeks and beyond,

                 is fully capable of experiencing pain."

                            After analyzing the partial birth

                 abortion procedure step-by-step for the

                 subcommittee, Professor White concluded:

                 "Without question, all of this is a dreadfully

                 painful experience for any infant subjected to

                 such a surgical procedure."

                            Further evidence of fetal pain was

                 elicited at a 1996 House Judiciary Committee

                 by Dr. Jean A. Wright, associate professor of

                 pediatrics and anesthesia at the Emory

                 University School of Medicine in Atlanta.  She

                 testified that recent research shows that by

                 the stage of the development that a fetus





                                                          4628



                 could be a candidate for a partial birth

                 abortion, 20 weeks -- again, reiterating the

                 fact that the fetus itself has to grow to that

                 period -- the baby is more sensitive to pain

                 than a full-term infant would be subjected

                 to -- if subjected to the same procedures.

                            Wright further stated, "These

                 fetuses have the anatomical and functional

                 processes responsible for the perception of

                 the pain and have a much higher density of

                 pain receptors than older humans."

                            Wright concluded:  "This procedure,

                 if it were done on an animal in my

                 institution, would not make it past the

                 institutional committee, and thus the animal

                 would be more protected than this child is."

                            We've -- since 1995 in this chamber

                 we've spoken of this procedure, we've spoken

                 making various quotes of doctors.  I think

                 back to the testimony of the nurse who had

                 participated in these procedures, a Brenda

                 Schaefer, Nurse Brenda Schaefer who was here,

                 and how horrified she was by it.

                            But I was also struck at the same

                 time by physicians who had come in in answer





                                                          4629



                 to the dilemma of parents who were able to

                 have diagnosed the conditions of their infants

                 in utero who came to us with heartrending

                 stories.  And the physicians indicated even at

                 that time -- and this was at least two years

                 ago, and in most cases three or four years

                 ago -- they told of operations that they had

                 performed on fetuses that were no more than 7

                 or 8 or 9 inches long that were in utero, of

                 putting a heart and other vital organs back

                 into the chest cavity, of putting a portion of

                 a brain or a brain back into the head of a

                 child in utero and having the child born.

                            Admittedly, some of the children

                 were not born completely normal.  But they had

                 at that time brought in mothers who had

                 indicated the love of a mother for a child and

                 the fact that this child certainly, while it

                 was possibly deficient in other areas, was not

                 deficient in the love of a mother or a parent.

                            In addition, there were many of

                 these children who were born whole in every

                 way, physically and mentally.  Dr. Haskell,

                 again, the -- a person who followed up

                 Dr. McMahon in this terrible procedure,





                                                          4630



                 indicated that he had performed the procedure

                 in the 8th and 9th month for conditions like

                 cleft palate, conditions that could have

                 easily been corrected postbirth.

                            I think we have to look at this as

                 an indication of a loss of humanity in our

                 society.  This is not a question of choice

                 or -- or life.  The fact that pro-choice

                 individuals like Mayor Koch and Senator

                 Moynihan and many, many others, hosts of

                 others, have supported this bill indicates

                 that it's not a question of choice.

                            It's a question that whether in a

                 society like ours we can destroy our young

                 preborn, imminently preborn.  How a doctor's

                 fingers, merely the pressure of just two

                 fingers holding in the head of a preborn

                 child, totally born with the exception of the

                 head, can apply sufficient pressure to keep

                 the head internally within the mother, insert

                 a Metzenbaum scissor, and then with a suction

                 device suck out the contents of the brain.

                            Is this an unpleasant subject?

                 Yes.  But far more unpleasant is the terrible

                 depths to which our society would descend to





                                                          4631



                 if we continue to approve this procedure.

                            We have numerous public opinion

                 polls, one taken as recently as April, that

                 indicate that 70 to 80 percent of our society

                 oppose this bestial procedure.  The good

                 doctor that I've just referred to correctly

                 indicates that this would not be permitted if

                 it were done to animals.  And yet we can carry

                 out this procedure to children that are almost

                 born.

                            This is a terrible procedure.  It's

                 a terrible indication of how our society could

                 permit things like this.  Ethically, many of

                 the medical associations, many of the

                 obstetrical associations, gynecological

                 associations, physicians have indicated while

                 some of them reluctantly approve of the

                 procedure, the vast majority say it's

                 unethical and not in keeping with a doctor's

                 oath to do no harm and preserve life.

                            We in New York lead the way in many

                 cases, in many statutes.  Earlier today we've

                 heard repeatedly from legislators saying how

                 New York leads the way in other ways that

                 affect far less individuals than this





                                                          4632



                 loathsome procedure.

                            I call upon and beseech my

                 colleagues to vote for this bill which would

                 prohibit this terrible procedure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Goodman -- Senator Dollinger.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'll yield to

                 Senator Goodman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 this is always the most difficult moment of

                 the year, when one has to get up and debate a

                 bill of this sort.  Because on its face, the

                 bill appears to be exactly what Senator

                 Maltese described it as being; namely, an

                 inhumane and appallingly barbaric procedure.

                            So we have to ask ourselves

                 repeatedly the question why would anyone

                 oppose this bill, which appears to prevent

                 such a procedure.  And the answer is both

                 complex and yet very simple.

                            The simple answer, my friends, is

                 that this bill would destroy the opportunity





                                                          4633



                 for physicians to render merciful medical

                 assistance to a mother whose life is in danger

                 or to a dead fetus or a fetus whose life

                 cannot possibly become viable.  And let's just

                 examine what the circumstances are which

                 surround this type of birth.

                            The information which I've received

                 from direct conversations with OB-GYN

                 specialists who normally do not perform this

                 procedure but leave it to other specialists is

                 as follows.  It is a very, very rare

                 procedure.  There has never been any

                 statistical proof indicating that it is a

                 procedure which is carried out with any degree

                 of frequency, for the following reason.

                            What is involved here is a

                 situation where a mother becomes pregnant,

                 carries that pregnancy almost to full term,

                 and there is a discovery made through sonogram

                 or other currently available technological

                 procedures medically that the child is born

                 with the brain outside its head, that the

                 child is born with the lungs outside its body,

                 that the child is born with the stomach

                 outside its body; in short, that the child is





                                                          4634



                 in so many different possible ways deformed to

                 the point where its birth would be an

                 immediate death sentence to the child itself.

                            Now, should this procedure not be

                 performed timely within the mother's womb,

                 there is a possibility of the degrading of the

                 fetus.  The degrading of the fetus means that

                 the fetus in effect has its tissues degraded

                 to the point where it becomes toxic and

                 poisons the bloodstream of the mother, thus

                 jeopardizing the life of the mother.

                            It is these circumstances which

                 render what appears to be an inhumane

                 procedure one which is absolutely merciful and

                 medically imperative.

                            When you speak to doctors, they say

                 there is no such thing as a "partial birth

                 abortion," because there is no such thing as a

                 partial birth as it relates to this situation.

                 What you have a late-term abortion.

                            But I'm sorry to say that this bill

                 is constitutionally so vague that it actually

                 might reach back into the second or first

                 trimester of pregnancy, which is clearly and

                 plainly constitutionally mandated to be





                                                          4635



                 protected by the Roe versus Wade decision.

                            Now, my friends, in order to

                 understand why this bill must be defeated, we

                 have to strike through the various attempts to

                 depict it in a superficial fashion with

                 diagrams showing a child's head being crushed

                 and having the child removed from the vaginal

                 canal with a pair of forceps.  This is in

                 itself grotesque.

                            But keep in mind, my friends, that

                 all D&Cs are grotesque, and all D&Es,

                 dilatation and extractions, are inherently

                 grotesque.  Nobody wishes to remove a womb or

                 to prevent a life from developing if it can be

                 avoided.

                            And the only reason for the

                 justification of this procedure is that the

                 fetus is not viable, is not in fact a human

                 being at the time this occurred because of the

                 earliness of the pregnancy, or that the

                 individual is so advanced in development but

                 so distorted and so unable to survive that

                 something must be done to prevent this tragedy

                 that I've described in the way of a birth of

                 an individual unable to survive due to the





                                                          4636



                 incredible distortion and tragic problems

                 which arise when an individual's development

                 is so totally taken out of the normal stream.

                            So where are we on this matter?

                 This requires some tough, incisive analysis on

                 the part of the Legislature.  It cannot be

                 done superficially.  It cannot be done in an

                 immature fashion.  It has to be done with the

                 most careful deliberation and scientific

                 reality terms and in discussion with the

                 physicians who actually do this.

                            Physicians do not want to do this

                 procedure, and they only do it when it is

                 imperative that it be done for the health of

                 the mother or the imminent demise of the

                 fetus.  And by "imminent demise," I mean

                 exactly that, the fact that the fetus is not

                 viable.

                            There have been suggestions that

                 this procedure is done because people want to

                 have their prom gowns fit them at the time of

                 their school proms and they wait till a month

                 before birth and have this done so they can go

                 to the prom with proper measurements.  This is

                 a fairy tale, it's simply not true, and it's





                                                          4637



                 an outrageous and an inappropriate distortion.

                            And I might say at the moment I in

                 no way intend to suggest that anyone in this

                 house resorts to that type of distortion.  I

                 think the honorable colleagues who have given

                 you the other side of the story do so from the

                 depths of sincere conviction.

                            But may I say to you that in order

                 to be very clear what's happening here, number

                 one, we're encouraging an unconstitutional

                 outcome which has repeatedly been denied by

                 every court that's reviewed it.  If you

                 examine the court decisions, you will see that

                 the courts plainly state that Roe v. Wade

                 provides certain protections which this

                 clearly is seeking to prevent the application

                 of.

                            And, secondly, it does jeopardize

                 health in a fashion that would be both

                 inhumane and intolerable.

                            So look through the

                 superficialities, my friends.  Understand that

                 what goes on here is something that must be

                 done in the interests of good, sound medical

                 science.





                                                          4638



                            The fact that certain physicians

                 have done it capriciously is not a

                 justification for this bill.  Those people

                 should be prosecuted in any manner deemed

                 appropriate by the profession and by the

                 courts, because if they're involved in the

                 murder of a human being, that's a separate and

                 entirely appropriate matter for prosecution of

                 the most vigorous sort.

                            But where the humane and medically

                 sound objective is fulfilled, that's where we

                 must draw the distinction.  And that, my

                 friends, is why I suggest to you that the

                 superficial horror implicit in this procedure

                 which so frequently causes people to favor

                 this type of legislation is unfortunately a

                 misfired missile.

                            We must understand it for what it

                 is.  It's a confused and inappropriate

                 application of reasoning that just is

                 illogical and altogether outside the realm of

                 any possible practical application of

                 scientific truth and merciful medical

                 treatment.

                            So for these reasons, I urge us





                                                          4639



                 please to reconsider, to understand what's at

                 stake and not to be susceptible to the

                 superficial type of thinking which I believe

                 underlies the foundation of this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, I believe there's an amendment at

                 the desk.  I'd waive its reading and ask to be

                 heard briefly to explain it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 amendment is at the desk.  Reading is waived.

                            Senator Dollinger, on the

                 amendment.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            This is an amendment we've done

                 before.  Senator Maltese, this amendment will

                 bring this bill into conformance with the

                 United States Constitution, the decisions of

                 the United States Supreme Court, and eliminate

                 late-term abortions of any type, which are

                 still illegal in this state, except when two

                 conditions are necessary:  The condition in

                 your bill, which says if the life of the





                                                          4640



                 mother is at stake; and, as the amendment

                 says, if there is a serious adverse health

                 consequence.

                            I agree with you, Senator Maltese.

                 If an abortion is performed at the late term

                 and it doesn't meet either one of those two

                 tests, it's against the law, should be against

                 the law in this state.  But I am telling you

                 without this amendment, this statute will

                 never become law and in my opinion will never

                 be constitutional.

                            If this amendment passes, I'll vote

                 for this bill and I'll go over and ask people

                 in the other house to vote for this bill,

                 because we'll have a law that's in conformance

                 with the Constitution of the United States.

                            I trust women to make the right

                 decision, in conjunction with their physician

                 and their family support group, when their

                 life is at stake or when a serious, adverse

                 health consequence threatens them.  I trust

                 women to make the right decision in that case.

                            This amendment will conform with

                 the Constitution and allow them to do it.  I

                 would ask that you accept this amendment.  I





                                                          4641



                 would ask that if you don't accept it, that it

                 be approved by the house so we can pass a

                 constitutionally sound bill that addresses

                 this issue.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Meier, on the amendment.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    On the amendment,

                 Mr. President, and briefly.

                            The problem with the amendment is

                 the amendment is the universal solvent that

                 makes this bill totally meaningless.  Because

                 what we're talking about is a very broad term,

                 capable of interpretation in almost any way.

                            Now, here's the other major problem

                 with the amendment.  On January 12, 1997, the

                 executive board of the American College of

                 Obstetricians and Gynecologists announced it

                 could identify no circumstances in which a

                 partial birth abortion would be the only

                 option to save the life of the mother or to

                 preserve her health.

                            An American Medical Association

                 task force which was put together to study the

                 very issue of partial birth abortion -- or

                 intact dilation and extraction, whichever term





                                                          4642



                 you prefer -- said:  "There does not appear to

                 be any identified situation in which intact

                 dilation and extraction is the only

                 appropriate procedure to induce abortions."

                            That is the problem with the

                 amendment, and that's why it deserves to go

                 down.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Montgomery, on the amendment.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    On

                 the amendment, all those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Opposed.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:     Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like a slow roll call on the amendment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 There are three members standing -- four,

                 five.  Five members standing.





                                                          4643



                            The Secretary will ring the bell

                 for a slow roll call.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno.

                            (Senator Bruno was recorded as

                 voting in the negative.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Connor.

                            (Senator Connor was recorded as

                 voting in the affirmative.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Coppola.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, just briefly to explain my vote, to





                                                          4644



                 address the -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Dollinger, to explain his vote

                 briefly.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    -- the point

                 that Senator Meier made, which is is the

                 amendment too ambiguous, will it swallow the

                 entire principle set forth in this statute.

                            I would remind Senator Meier that

                 this is a criminal statute, that we are

                 criminalizing behavior.  We are going to make

                 it a crime for a physician to participate.

                            And I would just suggest that

                 because it's a crime that what we're doing is

                 we're saying it's not just the life of the

                 mother but any serious, adverse health

                 consequence.  That would be an issue, if there

                 were a charge raised against a physician, to

                 determine.

                            I would, however, suggest that it

                 is best left to the judgment of the physician

                 attending a woman in this situation to make

                 that judgment call.  That's what this

                 statute -- the amendment does, that's why

                 we've brought it forth.  That will make it





                                                          4645



                 constitutionally acceptable.

                            I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Dollinger will be recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            Continue the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    On the

                 amendment.

                            There already are 17 people that

                 voted in favor of this bill.  Senator

                 Dollinger, we would love to have -- wherever

                 you're going, we'd love to have your vote on

                 this.  But I think the point that Senator

                 Meier made is very significant.

                            Let me just say there's plenty of

                 votes in the other house for this.  It would

                 pass in a New York minute if it was allowed on

                 the floor.

                            Seventeen people that are not here

                 that would be voting against your amendment.

                 It takes 31 votes to pass anything in this

                 house.  There's not going to be 31 votes to





                                                          4646



                 pass your amendment.  And with the 17 people

                 that have already voted, and left, in favor of

                 this bill, this is kind of an exercise in

                 futility.

                            I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Farley will be recorded as no.

                            Continue the roll.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Goodman.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Nay.





                                                          4647



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kruger.

                            SENATOR KRUGER:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kuhl.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Nay.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Markowitz.





                                                          4648



                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator McGee.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez,

                 excused.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nozzolio.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    To explain

                 my vote.

                            I would say that we have to say yes

                 to the -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.





                                                          4649



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    It would be

                 absolutely essential to say yes to the

                 amendment so that we couldn't be violating the

                 U.S. Constitution.

                            This is very clearly spelled out in

                 the memorandum from the League of Women

                 Voters.  It says lawsuits have been filed in

                 19 states to challenge similar so-called

                 partial birth abortion bans.  And in all cases

                 decided thus far, the courts have either

                 enjoined the law or restricted its

                 applicability to the period after viability.

                            New York State, as we all know,

                 already prohibits abortions after 24 weeks

                 except when the mother's life is threatened.

                            So I definitely support this

                 amendment.  I vote yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Oppenheimer recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rath.





                                                          4650



                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rosado.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Saland.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Sampson.

                            SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Santiago.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seabrook.

                            SENATOR SEABROOK:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator A. Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator M. Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Spano.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator





                                                          4651



                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Velella.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Wright.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the absentees.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Goodman.

                            (No response.)





                                                          4652



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kuhl.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator McGee.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nozzolio.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rath.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rosado.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Santiago.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward.





                                                          4653



                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Spano.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Velella.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Wright.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 19.  Nays,

                 23.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 amendment is defeated.

                            Senator Farley, on the bill.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Yes.  Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I rise in support of this bill.  I

                 think that Senator Maltese has said everything

                 that needed to be said on behalf of the bill.

                 But let's just focus for a moment on the

                 breadth of support that there is for this bill

                 throughout New York State and the United

                 States, for that matter.

                            It passes overwhelmingly in both

                 houses of Congress and misses a veto override





                                                          4654



                 by one vote.  It is a vote that crosses party

                 lines.  Patrick Kennedy, Daniel Patrick

                 Moynihan, so many, many people from the other

                 side of the aisle that consider themselves

                 pro-choice consider this an abhorrent,

                 obnoxious, terrible procedure.

                            The general public is 80 to

                 85 percent opposed to late-term abortions.  It

                 is a procedure that is absolutely obnoxious

                 and has no place in a civilized society.

                            I think that if there's any issue

                 that is nonpartisan -- it really isn't an

                 abortion issue.  This is, in my judgment, as

                 Daniel Patrick Moynihan said so eloquently,

                 this is infanticide.  This is taking a child

                 that could live, that they're practically out

                 in the world ready to live.

                            There's a woman that testified

                 before Congress that was going to be a partial

                 birth abortion victim, and her -- the

                 nurses -- the doctor was out of room, and the

                 nurses couldn't do it or wouldn't do it.  And

                 she was testifying before Congress thanking

                 God for her life, that she was able to survive

                 a procedure that was going to draw her brains





                                                          4655



                 out.

                            I think it's something that

                 everybody in this house should really

                 consider.  And this ban is needed more and

                 more.  As I recall the vote on this

                 legislation, it's 40 or 40-some-odd members of

                 this house in favor of it.  The Governor has

                 said he would sign it.

                            Again, as I said, if this bill ever

                 hit the Assembly floor, it would pass in a

                 minute.  The votes are there for it.

                 Unfortunately, it's not let out on the floor.

                            I hear all kinds of complaints from

                 the other side about bills that can't come out

                 on the floor.  Well, we've seen a lot of bills

                 come out on the floor this year in this house.

                 I'd like to see this bill come out on the

                 floor in the Assembly, and we'd see a law

                 banning partial birth abortion.

                            I'm going to vote aye, and I would

                 hope everyone else would.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I would

                 like to ask the Senator a question.





                                                          4656



                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Farley, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    I am only one of

                 many sponsors, but I'll try to answer your

                 question.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Oh, I said

                 the Senator, not the sponsor.

                            Because you used the word

                 "infanticide," and -

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    I didn't use

                 that word.  That was -- I was quoting Senator

                 Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who considers himself

                 pro-choice, who said that this procedure is

                 infanticide.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Well, if I

                 could question, do you understand the law that

                 as it is now specifies infanticide is against

                 our law.  So infanticide in and of itself is

                 criminal.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    I understand

                 that.  I think that this is truly criminal

                 too.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you, Mr.





                                                          4657



                 President.

                            So much of the debate around this

                 measure is born out of hysteria and a very

                 carefully crafted campaign by the

                 right-to-life organizations on the national

                 level to create a new and a very, very

                 emotional issue around which to rally the

                 antichoice forces.  And it has been effective.

                 But it bears little truth to medical practice

                 as it exists in New York State or anyplace

                 else in the nation.

                            I'd like to just enter into the

                 record, if I may, please, a couple of

                 memorandums.  And I don't often do this, but I

                 think that they state rather eloquently some

                 of the facts that have been misquoted or

                 misunderstood even by very ardent supporters

                 of this measure, upon reading the reality of

                 the law.

                            And we just saw one example of it a

                 few minutes ago.  It's apparent that there is

                 misinformation circulating.  And we as

                 legislators have a responsibility to learn the

                 facts.

                            Here are some of the facts from the





                                                          4658



                 American College of Obstetricians and

                 Gynecologists.  "The New York State Office of

                 the American College of Obstetricians and

                 Gynecologists opposes any action that would

                 supersede the medical judgment of trained

                 physicians.  The potential exists that

                 legislation prohibiting specific medical

                 practices may outlaw techniques that are

                 critical to the lives and health of New York

                 women.  There is no medical procedure called a

                 partial birth abortion."

                            Again, I'm quoting from the

                 American College of Obstetricians and

                 Gynecologists.  These are the people who

                 understand the medical practice that has been

                 grossly misinterpreted in this chamber today.

                            Again, I quote:  "The term is not

                 found in any medical dictionaries, textbooks,

                 or coding manuals.  The American College of

                 Obstetricians and Gynecologists believes the

                 intent of the legislation is to prohibit a

                 procedure referred to intact dilatation and

                 extraction.  This legislation prohibits the

                 use of this medical procedure in all stages of

                 pregnancy, not just late pregnancy, as the





                                                          4659



                 bill has been characterized.

                            "Abortions after 24 weeks are

                 already prohibited by law except when

                 continuing a pregnancy poses a danger to the

                 woman's life or health.  Third-trimester

                 termination of pregnancy procedures are not

                 routinely performed in New York State.  These

                 procedures are only performed under extreme

                 circumstances where the health and life of the

                 mother are threatened.

                            "Some examples of rare maternal

                 problems that threaten the life and/or health

                 of pregnant women are severe heart disease,

                 kidney failure, malignant cancers that develop

                 during pregnancy, and severe toxemia."

                            Again, the College of Obstetricians

                 and Gynecologists goes on to state that "A

                 woman in her third trimester in New York

                 undergoing an interruption of a pregnancy does

                 so only when the abnormalities of the fetus

                 are so extreme that independent life is not

                 possible or when the fetus has died in utero.

                 These procedures are not performed routinely

                 and are never purely elective.

                            "If there is a viable fetus, the





                                                          4660



                 fetus is delivered with full medical support

                 for mother and infant.  Full life support and

                 the neonatal intensive care services are

                 recommended by the College of Obstetricians

                 and Gynecologists, and are provided as routine

                 procedures to any fetus delivered close enough

                 to term to have any possibility of life.

                            "This legislation would ban a

                 medical procedure regardless of whether it is

                 the best or most appropriate procedure to save

                 the life or preserve the health of an

                 individual woman.  Under this bill, an

                 obstetrician-gynecologist would be forced by

                 law to use a different procedure to save a

                 woman's life or preserve her health even

                 though it may carry a much greater health risk

                 to the patient."

                            And they conclude by saying "Even

                 though a woman and her consulting physician

                 may decide to interrupt a pregnancy during the

                 third trimester, such a decision must be

                 approved by the hospital's ethics committee,

                 the hospital's lawyer, and other physicians,

                 including perinatologists and geneticists.  In

                 New York State, such approval is very rarely





                                                          4661



                 given.

                            "The Supreme Court and many state

                 courts around the country have rejected

                 similar laws because they are clearly

                 unconstitutional.  In fact, legislators do not

                 have the expertise or the medical knowledge to

                 intervene in medical decision-making.  This

                 decision must be left up to trained

                 professionals.

                            "It is for these reasons that the

                 American College of Obstetricians and

                 Gynecologists in New York State strongly

                 opposes this legislation."

                            I would also like to enter for the

                 record the statements made by the League of

                 Women Voters and the Family Planning Advocates

                 of New York State.  I won't read them now

                 because the hour grows late.  We have had this

                 debate before.

                            This is a matter that should be

                 decided by the medical professionals of this

                 state, not by the New York State Legislature.

                            I'll vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Montgomery.





                                                          4662



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I would like to ask Senator

                 Maltese a couple of questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Maltese, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            In line with the memo that Senator

                 Hoffmann just read, I note that in the bill it

                 says that partial birth abortion is

                 characterized as intact dilation and

                 extraction, or D&X, and that the woman will

                 not be charged with a crime under this

                 legislation, only the doctor will be charged

                 with a Class E felony if that doctor performs

                 this particular procedure.

                            And it says on line 24, page 2,

                 that partial birth abortion -- which is

                 defined by your legislation as D&X -- shall

                 not constitute a justifiable abortional act.

                            I do not see in your legislation,





                                                          4663



                 Senator Maltese, where this particular

                 procedure has a specific time frame connected

                 to it.

                            So if that is the case, unless I'm

                 misreading this legislation, if that is the

                 case, then what the obstetricians and

                 gynecologists have said -- in effect, that

                 this procedure is one that is used for -- this

                 is apparently a standard procedure in

                 relationship to this particular situation, if

                 that's the case, then does your legislation

                 not eliminate, essentially, abortions?

                            Or does it not place any physician

                 who does that procedure at any point, any

                 stage in the situation, doesn't it place that

                 physician in a position of having committed a

                 felony?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

                 through you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    First of all,

                 I'd like to take the opportunity to just

                 correct something that Senator Goodman had

                 said and that was referred to in the memo.





                                                          4664



                            The birth of a dead fetus does not

                 come under this legislation.  It would only be

                 a live fetus.  So some of the horrendous acts

                 that Senator Goodman referred to about

                 degenerating within the womb would not apply.

                 This is only if the fetus is in fact alive.

                            As far as in reply to your

                 question, Senator Montgomery, yes, the

                 terminology here would say that any partial

                 birth abortion.

                            But the procedure itself, while my

                 good colleague Senator Hoffmann has made much

                 of the fact that the term "partial birth

                 abortion" is not a medical term, that's

                 correct.  It's absolutely correct.  At the

                 same time, it has been used in various

                 hearings of the American Medical Association,

                 the New York State Medical Association.  It

                 has been used in Congressional testimony.  It

                 has been used in testimony by a variety, a

                 host of physicians and obstetricians and

                 gynecologists in Congressional testimony.

                            If there's anybody that is involved

                 in public life that doesn't know what a

                 partial birth abortion is, I'd be very





                                                          4665



                 surprised.  Certainly anybody in this chamber

                 could pretty well recite exactly what would

                 come within the confines of this terminology.

                            At the same time, the phrase that

                 is included in this -- and this was the change

                 from the first legislation that we put in in

                 this house in 1995-'96, we added this one

                 sentence:  "This procedure is characterized by

                 the American Medical Association as intact

                 dilation and extraction, or intact D&X."

                            And that is a medical term, and

                 that is medical terminology, and that is

                 terminology that is used by physicians,

                 obstetricians and gynecologists.  So that is

                 explained.

                            As far as the procedure itself,

                 while there is no time limit on the

                 terminology within this legislation, as I've

                 said before, the doctors, both pro and con,

                 advocates and proponents and detractors and

                 opponents, have indicated that the state of

                 the fetus is so fragile and so susceptible to

                 breaking off that the fetus itself is

                 dismembered if this procedure is attempted

                 before approximately the period of 20 weeks.





                                                          4666



                            So the procedure itself is a

                 procedure that's limited by the state of the

                 fetus itself.  Therefore, it limits it.

                            And in direct response to your

                 question, Senator Montgomery, this procedure

                 does not constitute a justifiable abortional

                 act.  What I am saying by this legislation and

                 the proponents of similar legislation, almost

                 identical legislation, with certain changes

                 relative to federal statutes, they're saying

                 that you cannot perform this procedure only,

                 this D&X, this procedure, partial birth

                 abortion.

                            It is not limiting the woman's

                 choice in any other manner.  This is limiting

                 a physician's choice from performing this type

                 of loathsome procedure in a -- in a late-term

                 abortion.  It removes one of the choices.

                            It has been spelled out in much of

                 the material on this partial birth abortion

                 that this is a procedure that usually takes a

                 minimum of two days and usually takes three

                 days.  It is done over a period of time that

                 would almost certainly negate a procedure that

                 would be only to save the life of the mother.





                                                          4667



                 It is done by dilation over a period of time.

                 And whether it is an inpatient or outpatient

                 procedure, it does take that period of time.

                            We have, just as has been read,

                 material by physicians and obstetricians and

                 gynecologists that have testified.  It seems

                 to be a procedure that is not necessary to

                 save the life of the mother.

                            But assume for the moment that it

                 is necessary to save the life of the mother.

                 The legislation indicates that is the one

                 course of action that is permitted a physician

                 to take if he feels it's to save the life of

                 the mother.

                            So it covers those unique

                 situations.  My -- I offer -- I say to you if

                 it is done in such an infinitesimal number of

                 the cases as recited by Senator Goodman

                 previously, then end this barbaric practice,

                 end this loathsome practice, and put to bed

                 any type of this right-wing conspiracy that

                 has been referred to by my good colleague

                 Senator Hoffmann.

                            It is not a right-wing -- it is not

                 a conspiracy of any shape, manner, or form.





                                                          4668



                 No right-to-life forces all over the country

                 have gathered together.

                            Constant polls indicate the vast

                 majority of the American people want an end to

                 this procedure.

                            Quite frankly, if I were to look at

                 it from the viewpoint of being pro-choice, I

                 would want this procedure ended too, because

                 it seems to divert attention from those that

                 prefer choice and those that prefer life.

                            This procedure is not a procedure

                 that must be resorted to.  Apparently at least

                 the vast majority of physicians seem to agree

                 on that.  I submit to my colleagues this is

                 not a choice situation.  This is a situation

                 that many of you have referred to in the past

                 as a slippery slope.  It's doing away with a

                 child that's near born.

                            It is a mistake for us to sanction

                 it in this legislative house.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill, briefly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:





                                                          4669



                 Senator Montgomery, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I just -

                 notwithstanding the fact that I respect

                 Senator Maltese and his reading and

                 understanding of the legislation, it's not how

                 I read it.

                            And I think that part of what

                 happens here is that we have a bill before us

                 which has specific language in it that will

                 govern the law under this legislation.  And

                 then we have Senator Maltese's memorandum in

                 support, which has the justification for his

                 bill.

                            And it sounds to me like Senator

                 Maltese is reading the justification as if

                 it's the legislation.  And his intent in his

                 mind is one thing, and what's in this bill is

                 another, as I read it.

                            Now, it says here, as clear as I

                 can see, that the bill defines partial birth

                 abortion according to the AMA.  And the AMA

                 defines -- is used here as the definition of

                 partial birth abortion, which says intact

                 dilation and extraction, D&X.

                            It happens to be a procedure that





                                                          4670



                 is associated with abortions.  We could be

                 talking about other kinds of medical

                 procedures, but we happen to be talking about

                 this one.  And this one is related to a woman

                 who finds herself in a situation where she is

                 in need of an abortion.  So fine.

                            And the law, the law already

                 specifies what a justifiable abortional act

                 is.  And it does not allow, without certain

                 circumstances as defined in law, an abortion

                 beyond the 24th week.  That's already in the

                 law.

                            But then at the very end, this

                 addition that Senator Maltese is putting into

                 the law essentially repeals the rest of the

                 law, as I see it.  And it says "Partial birth

                 abortions shall not constitute a justifiable

                 abortional act."  Period.  That's the end of

                 the sentence.  It doesn't say within any

                 period of time, it does not have if the

                 mother's life is in danger.  It has nothing

                 there but that as the final sentence.

                            So I just think that there is a

                 major problem with this.  And that is anyone

                 looking at the legislation, assuming that it





                                                          4671



                 passes both houses and is enacted into law, we

                 have a situation where any physician in this

                 state would be charged with a felony if

                 they -- if they participate in this particular

                 procedure at any point in time as it relates

                 to having an abortion.

                            So, Senator Maltese, as far as I

                 can tell, your legislation repeals the right

                 for women in this state, for any reason, at

                 any stage, to receive an abortion.  And I must

                 certainly be against this legislation.

                            And besides which, it's probably

                 going to be unconstitutional when it's passed.

                 But I think just considering passing it is

                 wrong.

                            So I'll be voting no, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            We've had a long debate here today.

                 Last year I debated Senator Maltese for some

                 time about the specific provisions in his

                 legislation.  I believe that verbatim this is





                                                          4672



                 the exact same bill that we're addressing this

                 year that we addressed last year.  And many of

                 my colleagues' responses to this legislation

                 are right on target.

                            I simply want to reiterate what my

                 comments were last year to Senator Maltese,

                 which is that I'm perfectly willing to support

                 a ban on partial birth abortion with an

                 acceptable bill.  And I know that, Senator,

                 you referred to public opinion polls showing

                 overwhelming support for a partial birth

                 abortion ban.  I doubt that those public

                 opinion polls would reflect the same results

                 if I was able to articulate exactly what this

                 bill does and could potentially do.

                            And so as a result, I will

                 reiterate my comments from last year, which

                 are I cannot support this particular

                 legislation until it satisfies two specific

                 provisions.  One is to more narrowly define

                 what a partial birth abortion is so that we

                 don't, intentionally or unintentionally,

                 outlaw other abortion procedures which are

                 constitutionally protected.

                            And, number two, and most





                                                          4673



                 importantly, there is no exemption here in

                 consideration of the health of the mother.

                 And what that does, let me break it down for

                 you very simply.  It simply says that in the

                 unfortunate situation that a woman has to have

                 a late-term abortion, if the partial birth

                 abortion procedure is the safest procedure,

                 meaning it's safer than some other available

                 procedure, if this bill becomes law, the woman

                 cannot have the safest procedure.

                            It's probably unconstitutional.

                 It's certainly awful public policy.  And it's

                 just wrong.

                            So, Senator Maltese, I suggest to

                 you if you're interested in having the votes

                 from some members on this side of the aisle,

                 including Senator Dollinger, who articulated

                 the same concerns, I would suggest that you

                 amend the bill and you'll receive a favorable

                 response from some of us.

                            Until that's done, this legislation

                 will not have the effect that you suggest that

                 it will have.  It will have some other effect.

                 And that effect, I believe, is not in the best

                 interests of my constituents or anybody in New





                                                          4674



                 York State.

                            I will be voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I hope someday that people will

                 look back at this and find it incredible that

                 we had to debate this.

                            In a lot of the debate, some

                 mention has been made about some hysteria on

                 the part of the pro-life community.  I would

                 suggest to you that there may be some hysteria

                 on the other end of the debate, and an

                 unwillingness sometimes to face what we're

                 really talking about.

                            I like to remind people of a

                 gentleman named Ron Fitzsimmons who some time

                 ago was the national director, executive

                 director of the National Coalition of Abortion

                 Providers.  I have a New York Times article

                 from February 22nd of 1997 which reads as

                 follows, in short part:  "A prominent member

                 of the abortion rights movement said today

                 that he lied in earlier statements when he





                                                          4675



                 said a controversial form of late-term

                 abortion is rare and performed primarily to

                 save the lives or fertility of women bearing

                 severely malformed babies.  He now says the

                 procedure is performed far more often than his

                 colleagues have acknowledged, and on healthy

                 women bearing healthy fetuses."

                            It goes on to say that "He

                 intentionally misled in previous remarks about

                 the procedure, called 'intact dilation and

                 evacuation' by those who believe it should

                 remain legal, and 'partial birth abortion' by

                 those who believe it should be outlawed" -

                 and I'm quoting the New York Times -- "because

                 he believed that the truth would damage the

                 cause of abortion rights.  But he is now

                 convinced, he said, that the issue of whether

                 the procedure remains legal, like the overall

                 debate on abortion, must be based on the

                 truth."

                            Well, I think it ought to be based

                 on the truth.  And I find it interesting, as I

                 said during the debate on the amendment, the

                 American Medical Association convened a study

                 group to look at this issue in 1997.  And they





                                                          4676



                 concluded, and I quote:  "There does not

                 appear to be any identified situation in which

                 intact dilation and extraction is the only

                 appropriate procedure to induce abortion."

                            I mean, the very fact that we are

                 talking about whether a question of seconds

                 and centimeters constitutes the difference

                 between a medical procedure and infanticide is

                 absolutely incredible.  Absolutely incredible.

                            And I think that maybe we do have

                 to confront the issue of extremism when we get

                 into this broader issue.  I have personally

                 remonstrated with my bishop over the issue

                 when he demonstrates on the issue of life of

                 associating with people who have in the past

                 committed violent acts.

                            I have remonstrated with other

                 leaders of the pro-life movement that we have

                 an obligation to weed those extremists out of

                 our midst and to tell people who come to this

                 issue with hate in their hearts to go away,

                 because they're hypocrites.  You can't be for

                 life and hate at the same time.

                            I would invite, though -- and I

                 would invite in a gentle way -- people who are





                                                          4677



                 on the other side, in good faith, on this

                 debate to ask yourself, to ask yourself if a

                 society which finds that this is a debatable

                 matter, centimeters and seconds, if we have

                 not in fact created a climate of moral

                 ambiguity about life that has led to some

                 tragedies that are all too frequently reported

                 in our newspapers.  The Amy Grossberg and

                 Brian Peterson case, the two New Jersey

                 teenagers who left their newly born son

                 wrapped in a blanket and in plastic and in a

                 trash dumper.  The case of the young woman,

                 also in New Jersey, who left her newly born

                 son in a toilet stall.

                            In an interview on the NBC program

                 "Dateline," a friend of Melissa Drexler -- the

                 young woman who left the baby at the prom -

                 said the following about the baby boy's death,

                 and I quote:  "She didn't know it was alive.

                 It came out blue.  She assumed it was dead.

                 Melissa told me it wasn't living."

                            Four sentences.  Twenty-one words.

                 Four occasions to refer to a baby, a human

                 being, a little boy.  But it's "it."  It's

                 "it."  It's "it."





                                                          4678



                            And that, I suggest to you, is the

                 environment we have created when we can come

                 to the point where something like this is a

                 debatable matter.

                            I recognize and I respect the fact

                 that honorable people may differ as to the

                 point where life begins, and that honorable

                 people may perhaps differ as to the point

                 where life deserves the protection of law.

                 But I must tell you in all conscience and in

                 all candor with my colleagues, I don't

                 understand how seconds and centimeters can

                 become a debatable point about whether we're

                 talking about a medical procedure or a murder.

                            And the Melissa Drexlers and the

                 Amy Grossbergs and Brian Petersons of the

                 world and the moral ambiguity within which

                 they're able to commit those heinous acts are

                 the whirlwind of that kind of world.

                            I urge an aye vote on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Coppola.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    I respect my

                 colleagues on the other side of the aisle for

                 their passion, for their concern on this





                                                          4679



                 issue.

                            But I go back to before abortion

                 wasn legal.  And I witnessed in our area the

                 illegal abortions that took place way back

                 when, and the young women who died because of

                 the illegal abortions.  I watched that, and I

                 watched doctors perform those illegal -- they

                 were in the paper, they were prosecuted.  We

                 didn't have a handle on all of them.  Not only

                 did the babies die, but the mothers died.

                            And what happened was because there

                 was no supervision.  There wasn't anything

                 there.  That happened because the very poor

                 couldn't afford an abortion or medical care.

                 But the very rich had an abortion.  The

                 elitists were out there because they could

                 afford it, in secrecy, behind closed doors.

                            Our country has made mistakes.

                 We've made mistakes when we had bootleggers

                 back in the thirties, and we brought that

                 back.  And we have laws now for alcoholic

                 beverages.  Why don't we just eliminate

                 cigarette smoking?  We know how harmful it is

                 to our health.  But we won't do that either,

                 because we have to have some control on that.





                                                          4680



                            So we eliminate abortions, and

                 there are no controls.  Now, I was even

                 willing to go today and watch the other side

                 of the aisle and support this, when Dollinger

                 put in his amendment -- and to shoot it

                 down -- I said, at least this is a step in the

                 right direction.  We're trying to look for a

                 compromise, come together here.

                            Because the bottom line here is not

                 your side or our side.  The bottom line is

                 we've all got to get together and start

                 educating the kids of tomorrow that it's wrong

                 to have babies, number one, when you can't

                 afford it.  And, number two, you have to

                 respect life.

                            We're not putting that kind of

                 energy into that.  So what we do is eliminate

                 all of this and go back to the illegal

                 abortions?  I really respect, Senator Maltese,

                 your passion and your concern.  I really do,

                 because that's important.

                            But hopefully you take that kind of

                 passion and we start getting out there to our

                 schools across the state of New York and

                 teaching them about education and respect of





                                                          4681



                 life.  When I have 7th- and 8th-grade girls in

                 my area pregnant, that's wrong.  When I

                 witnessed back years ago, before there was

                 legal abortions, the mothers dying and the

                 fetuses being flushed down the toilet.

                            So what do we do?  We have

                 prohibition again?  What do we do?  We outlaw

                 cigarettes?  We hide behind our cloak that

                 we're all nice people here and we're fighting

                 for lives?

                            Well, we are fighting for lives on

                 this side of the aisle.  But let's do it

                 through education, education, education.

                            Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read

                 the last section.

                            Oh, I'm sorry.  Senator

                 Schneiderman.  I didn't see you.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    You wish,

                 Mr. President.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Listen,

                 it's been a long day.  This is a very serious

                 issue.  I'm sorry so many of our colleagues

                 have left, because I know that both the





                                                          4682



                 proponents and the opponents of this take it

                 very, very seriously.

                            Actually I join Senator Meier in my

                 concern -- and it's nice to know Senator

                 Marchi has spoken about this.  I don't

                 disagree with you about the climate of moral

                 ambiguity.  In my view, however, this very

                 wrong-headed legislation is not a way to

                 address that.

                            In fact, I think this is really

                 unfortunate that we get hung up on this issue.

                 I agree on that also.  But I think it's pretty

                 clear that this legislation would be horrible

                 public policy if enacted.

                            Conspiracies are hard things to

                 pull off.  And I don't believe there's a vast

                 right-wing conspiracy behind this bill.

                 However, I do believe that this is an -- there

                 is an intentionally deceptive, extremely

                 clever campaign behind this legislation.

                            The reason is very simple.  This

                 bill does nothing more or less than tie the

                 hands of a doctor who is in an operating room

                 with a patient that's already determined to

                 have an abortion, to terminate the fetus.





                                                          4683



                 Where the doctor determines that to preserve

                 the health of that patient this particular

                 type of procedure would be the most

                 appropriate thing, that doctor won't be able

                 to do it.

                            This bill does not prohibit

                 dilation and evacuation, which is the most

                 standard procedure in the second trimester.

                 And we've heard a lot about how disgusting

                 this procedure is.  This is grisly stuff.  I

                 assure you, dilation and evacuation is equally

                 disgusting.  And I could go into details about

                 crushed heads and broken limbs that take place

                 when the vacuum tube is pulling the baby out.

                 It's all disgusting stuff.

                            The problem is that you are

                 misleading people when you say this bill will

                 prohibit a particular type of abortion at the

                 very, very end of a pregnancy.  It's

                 obvious -- and we've mentioned this

                 repeatedly, and people have said for years

                 that if you're serious about this being

                 late-term, put in a time limit.

                            There's no time limit, because this

                 is a bill that would discourage doctors from





                                                          4684



                 performing any type of abortion procedure.

                            And I do disagree with my

                 colleagues in some of their references to what

                 medical opinion is on this.  I read from the

                 same AMA report I think Senator Meier was

                 reading from.  He mentioned the first sentence

                 of this paragraph.  I want to read later in

                 the paragraph.

                            It acknowledges ethical concerns

                 about intact dilation and extraction, but then

                 says "The AMA recommends that the procedure

                 not be used unless alternative procedures pose

                 materially greater risk to the woman.  The

                 physician must, however, retain the discretion

                 to make that judgment, acting within standards

                 of good medical practice and in the best

                 interests of the patient."

                            That's all we're saying here.

                 Don't tie the hands of doctors to serve a

                 patient, to carry out their oath.  That's what

                 we would do with this legislation.

                            I now want to make a reference to a

                 report from the American College of

                 Obstetricians and Gynecologists, because this

                 assertion that most doctors are opposed to





                                                          4685



                 this procedure is just nonsense.  "An intact

                 D&X may be the best or most appropriate

                 procedure in a particular circumstance to save

                 the life or preserve the health of a woman.

                 And only the doctor, in consultation with the

                 patient, based upon the woman's particular

                 circumstances, can make this decision."

                            And it goes on to cite the

                 situation in which a fetus is hydrocephalic as

                 a situation in which a D&X procedure is safer

                 for the patient than a D&E procedure.

                            So we're not preventing abortions

                 with this bill.  What we're doing is saying to

                 doctors, We're going to tie your hands, we're

                 not going to let you do what is safest for

                 your patient.  That, to me, is not a noble act

                 of public policy.  I think this is a deceptive

                 campaign.

                            I respect the fact that there are

                 members of this house, including Senator

                 Maltese, who are antichoice.  And if you want

                 to put in a bill that says we think all

                 abortions are wrong, you put it in.  We'll

                 debate it, we'll vote against it.

                            This is a deceptive effort to





                                                          4686



                 undermine freedom of choice.  I urge that we

                 all reject it now.  And I urge a no vote.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Can we have

                 the last section read for purposes of Senator

                 Morahan and Senator Saland to cast their

                 votes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect first day of November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Saland.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Skelos.





                                                          4687



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Sampson.

                            SENATOR SAMPSON:    No.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Withdraw the

                 roll call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Withdraw the roll call, please.

                            Senator Oppenheimer, on the bill.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Well, for

                 the eight of us left here.

                            I don't know, I'm listening very

                 closely and sometimes I have a feeling that

                 there's a whole lot more concern for the fetus

                 than there is for the woman here.  The woman

                 is an adult.  And it seems like the woman

                 doesn't count, it's only the fetus that seems

                 to count.

                            And I was just talking to my

                 colleague here, Senator Montgomery, and





                                                          4688



                 really, I don't quite understand what

                 government is doing in this whole thing

                 anyway.  Because as we know from time

                 immemorial, a woman is going to do what a

                 woman has to do.  And, you know, whether it's

                 approved or not approved, it really is a

                 question of is it done in a safe and healthy

                 manner or is it going to be done in, you know,

                 back alleys.

                            Anyway, there's some things I'd

                 like to clarify.  And I'm also going to use

                 some notes from a noted authority.  This is

                 Allan Rosenfield.  He's the dean of the

                 Columbia School of Public Health.

                            And by the way, I concur with my

                 colleague who says that almost all doctors,

                 almost all nurses, almost all people in just

                 about any health care field, to say nothing of

                 the League of Women Voters, a lot of very

                 respected organizations, all say that this is

                 not the way to go.

                            And the only groups that seem to be

                 supporting this, quote, partial birth abortion

                 ban act are the right-to-life people.  So I

                 don't see that there's a huge groundswell.





                                                          4689



                            Let me clarify certain things.

                 This intrusion into decision-making by

                 physicians about a specific medical procedure

                 is really unprecedented, and it's

                 inappropriate, and it could have very

                 devastating consequences on the quality of

                 medical care in our state for sure.

                            And this Legislature, in my opinion

                 and in many people's opinion, doesn't belong

                 in the decision-making about medical

                 procedures or treatments.  In fact, the phrase

                 I think "partial birth" was totally fabricated

                 by the antichoice community to sensationalize

                 a very serious medical procedure.

                            And I was quite interested to see

                 that the League of Women Voters has become

                 quite passionate on this, and that's not their

                 usual stance.  And they say, "Those who are

                 advocating this legislation are pandering to

                 an extreme constituency which is legislating

                 at its very worse."  They call this

                 legislation politically motivated and that it

                 disregards the life and health of women.

                 That's pretty strong words for the League of

                 Women Voters.





                                                          4690



                            This bill is really vague.  It

                 lacks any medical terminology.  And it's

                 difficult to understand exactly what the

                 authors are trying to ban.  This vagueness is,

                 I think, intentional, an effort to eliminate

                 the right to choose in our country.  The fact

                 is that Roe versus Wade, where -- all

                 abortions performed in the third trimester are

                 illegal, and they can only be performed if the

                 purpose is to save the life and health of the

                 woman, including cases of extreme fetal and

                 abnormalities.

                            The fact is fewer than 1 percent of

                 all abortions are performed after 20 weeks and

                 significantly -- this is amazing -- less than

                 one-tenth of 1 percent of all abortions are

                 performed after 24 weeks.  That's -- wait,

                 0.10.  So that's one-tenth of 1 percent.

                            This legislation would ban one

                 variant of the dilatation and evacuation

                 procedure, which is the dominant method used

                 in second-trimester abortions.  I said second

                 trimester.  That is covered under Roe v. Wade.

                            This legislation could be

                 interpreted to ban most or all D&E procedures,





                                                          4691



                 which is the safest method of abortion in the

                 second trimester, and that's between the 12th

                 and the 18th week.

                            The fact is the choice of the most

                 appropriate option must be a medical choice,

                 not one dictated by us, a legislative body,

                 which would only increase the risk factors of

                 surgery and not be the most appropriate

                 medical care that the doctor would prescribe.

                            This legislation would force

                 doctors in some cases to select what they

                 consider a second- or even a third-best method

                 just in order to avoid criminal prosecution.

                            I believe, and I'll tell you a lot

                 of women believe that the medical decisions

                 that women have to make should be made with

                 their families and with their doctors, not

                 with the Legislature.

                            And I think this is an

                 unprecedented intrusion into our medical care.

                 And I think the decision-making does not

                 belong with the Legislature.  I really think

                 this should be rejected.

                            I'll be voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read





                                                          4692



                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Slow roll

                 call.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Paterson, do you have five members

                 standing?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, we do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Slow

                 roll call.

                            The Secretary will ring the bells.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi,

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    No.





                                                          4693



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno.

                            (Senator Bruno was recorded as

                 voting in the affirmative.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Connor.

                            (Senator Connor was recorded as

                 voting in the negative.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Coppola.

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco voting in the affirmative earlier

                 today.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Goodman.





                                                          4694



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kruger

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Kuhl voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Lachman voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Lack voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.





                                                          4695



                            Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 Markowitz.

                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator McGee

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez

                 excused.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Morahan

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Nozzolio voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Onorato voting in the





                                                          4696



                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rath

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Rosado voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Saland voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Sampson voting in the

                 negative earlier today.

                            Senator Santiago voting in the

                 negative earlier today.

                            Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seabrook.

                            SENATOR SEABROOK:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Skelos voting in the

                 affirmative earlier today.





                                                          4697



                            Senator A. Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator M. Smith

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Spano voting in the

                 negative earlier today.

                            Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Aye.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    No.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Velella

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Yes.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Wright

                 voting in the affirmative earlier today.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will call the absentees.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.

                            (No response.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.





                                                          4698



                            SENATOR GONZALEZ:    (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Gentile will be recorded in the

                 affirmative.

                            The Secretary will read the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.  Nays,

                 19.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, do we have any housekeeping at the

                 desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    May we

                 return to motions and resolutions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I wish to call up Senator Leibell's





                                                          4699



                 bill, Print Number 7530, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 744, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7530, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Amendments received.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 wish to call up Senator DeFrancisco's bill,

                 Print Number 4239, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will read.





                                                          4700



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 733, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 4239, an act to amend Chapter 679 of the Laws

                 of 1992.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 amendments are received.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Amendments are offered to the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:

                            By Senator Lack, at page 9,

                 Calendar 301, Senate Print 6502;

                            Senator Seward, page 14, Calendar

                 497, Senate Print 6734;

                            Senator Volker, at page 15,

                 Calendar 559, Print Number 4659B;





                                                          4701



                            By Senator Wright, at page 23,

                 Calendar 786, Print Number 7085;

                            By Senator Balboni, at page 34,

                 Calendar 1017, Print Number 7700;

                            By Senator Velella, page 34,

                 Calendar 1013, Senate Print 7397A;

                            By Senator Johnson, at page 18,

                 Calendar Number 677, Senate Print Number 6864;

                            By Senator Skelos, at page 34,

                 Calendar Number 1005, Senate Print Number

                 6153;

                            And by Senator Spano, at page 38,

                 Calendar Number 1098, Senate Print Number

                 7766.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bills will

                 retain their place on Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Also, on page number 23, on behalf

                 of Senator Spano, I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 796, Senate

                 Print Number 1594A, and I ask that the bill

                 retain its place on the Third Reading





                                                          4702



                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 amendments are received.  The bill will retain

                 its place on Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, can we return to reports of

                 standing committees.  I believe there's a

                 report of the Rules Committee at the desk.

                 Can we have it read now.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Reports of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 273, by Senator

                 Kruger, an act to amend the Penal Law;

                            1182A, by Senator Padavan, an act

                 to amend the New York City Charter;

                            1271, by Senator Goodman, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            1580A, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law;

                            2311, by Senator Kuhl, an act to





                                                          4703



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            3475, by Senator Paterson, an act

                 to amend the Tax Law;

                            4125, by Senator Alesi, an act to

                 amend the Labor Law;

                            5152, by Senator Libous, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;

                            6696, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

                 act to amend Chapter 17 of the Laws of 1930;

                            6851, by Senator Balboni, an act

                 authorizing the reopening;

                            7231A, by Senator Maziarz, an act

                 to authorize the Village of Medina;

                            7351, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

                            7352, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;

                            7548A, by Senator Leibell, an act

                 to amend the Town Law and the Real Property

                 Tax Law;

                            7566A, by Senator Maziarz, an act

                 to amend the General Municipal Law;

                            7816, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 amend the General Municipal Law;

                            7823, by Senator Seward, an act to





                                                          4704



                 amend Chapter 607 of the Laws of 1999;

                            7834A, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Highway Law;

                            7865, by Senator Libous, an act to

                 amend the Mental Hygiene Law;

                            7902, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the General Business Law;

                            And 7967, by Senator Marchi, an act

                 to amend the Tax Law and others.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, can we accept the Rules Committee

                 report.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 motion is to accept the report of the Rules

                 Committee.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The





                                                          4705



                 report is accepted.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, at this time can we take up Senate

                 Number 5152.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will read.  5152, the Secretary will

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Senate Print 5152, Senator Libous moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3597 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5152,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1324.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1324, by Member of the Assembly Stringer,

                 Assembly Print Number 3597, an act to amend

                 the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of





                                                          4706



                 July.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, are there any substitutions at the

                 desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Yes,

                 there are.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    May we have

                 them made, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 38,

                 Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8130B

                 and substitute for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 5590B, Third Reading Calendar 1086.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            Senator Marcellino.





                                                          4707



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Can we

                 recognize Senator Dollinger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, may I have unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 709.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Yes,

                 you do.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Coppola, do you wish to be heard?

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    No.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Okay.  You sure?

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR COPPOLA:    Thank you very

                 much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, there being no further business to

                 come before the Senate, I move we adjourn

                 until Monday, June 12th -- excuse me, Senator





                                                          4708



                 Paterson.  The unshaven one wishes to speak.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:

                 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Are we about

                 adjourn, Mr. President?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I hope so.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    I'm

                 waiting for the motion from Senator

                 Marcellino, Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Can I have a

                 slow roll call on that, please.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    Are

                 there five Senators left in the chambers?

                            Senator Marcellino, will you

                 continue on your motion, please.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    There being

                 no further business to come before the Senate,

                 I move we adjourn until Monday, June 12, at

                 3:00 p.m., intervening days to be legislative

                 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Monday, June 12th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening

                 days being legislative days.





                                                          4709



                            (Whereupon, at 4:23 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)