Regular Session - March 13, 2001

                                                              1963



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                              March 13, 2001

                                 3:05 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          1964



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    It is my great

                 honor and privilege to tell you that the

                 invocation today will be given by His Eminence

                 Edward Cardinal Egan of the New York State

                 Archdiocese.

                            Cardinal.

                            ARCHBISHOP EGAN:    Before I start

                 the invocation, I want to be sure to thank you

                 for the honor of being here in this august

                 Assembly.  I truly feel privileged, and I feel

                 that you've been extraordinarily good to this

                 New York citizen of only eight months.  I'll

                 try to live up to this honor which you've

                 accorded me.

                            Could we place ourselves now in the

                 presence of our God.

                            O mighty and eternal Father, today,





                                                          1965



                 with great confidence, we seek Your loving

                 care for those in our state government who

                 serve us and all of our fellow citizens.  May

                 our Governor and our Lieutenant Governor and

                 all of the administration which serves our

                 people with them, they are Senators and the

                 members of our Assembly, and their staffs and

                 our judiciary, all be granted the grace of

                 being women and men of justice and compassion,

                 of honor and righteousness.

                            May we give them the respect, the

                 understanding, and the support they deserve as

                 servants of the public.  May we have the

                 courage and wisdom to place before them our

                 needs and our concerns.

                            May together, officials and

                 citizens alike, may we protect the

                 defenseless, care for the needy, defend the

                 worker, guide and educate our children, attend

                 to the needs of the sick and the elderly and

                 all in our midst who are hurting.

                            Bless our leadership, O Lord.

                 Bless our fellow citizens.  Make us an example

                 to the nation and to the world of a people who

                 are unashamedly committed to goodness,





                                                          1966



                 nobility, wholesomeness of life.  This is Your

                 will for us.  We beg with confidence that You

                 make of us the people we should be, here in

                 the Empire State, the great State of New York.

                            Make us, O Lord, good and holy, in

                 Your holy name, now and forever.

                            Amen.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Monday, March 12, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, March 11,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.





                                                          1967



                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 I believe I have a privileged resolution at

                 the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You do, Senator.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    I would ask that

                 it be read in its entirety and move for its

                 immediate adoption.

                            And customarily, members would rise

                 and speak to the resolution.  But out of

                 deference to His Eminence Cardinal Egan's

                 time, and the bishops', I would respectfully

                 request that the members not speak to the

                 resolution.

                            Because I know, Cardinal, I speak

                 for this entire delegation in that each and

                 every one of the 61 members here would like to

                 add to and say anything and everything that

                 might be appropriate for this ceremonious

                 occasion.

                            But we are just as happy as we can

                 be that you are here to join us, and thank you

                 very, very much for your prayer.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.





                                                          1968



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

                 Legislative Resolution Number 684,

                 congratulating Edward Cardinal Egan, Theodore

                 Cardinal McCarrick, and Avery Cardinal Dulles

                 on their recent elevation to the august

                 position of Cardinal.

                            "WHEREAS, It is the longstanding

                 tradition of this Legislative Body to

                 recognize and commend individuals who provide

                 social, health and spiritual guidance to the

                 citizens of their community and play a vital

                 role in the development of the moral fabric of

                 a responsible citizenry; and

                            "WHEREAS, On Wednesday,

                 February 21, 2001, Archbishop Edward M. Egan,

                 Archbishop Theodore Cardinal McCarrick, and

                 Jesuit Theologian the Reverend Avery Dulles

                 were elevated to the College of Cardinals by

                 Pope John Paul II; and

                            "WHEREAS, Edward Cardinal Egan was

                 ordained a priest on December 15, 1957,

                 following studies at the Seminary of our Lady

                 of the Lake in Mundelein and the Pontifical

                 Gregorian University in Rome.  He returned to

                 the United States and spent the next two years





                                                          1969



                 in administrative posts in the Archdiocese of

                 Chicago; and

                            "WHEREAS, Edward Cardinal Egan

                 returned to Rome in 1960 and obtained a

                 Doctorate in Canon Law and served as the Vice

                 Rector of the Pontifical North American

                 College.  He was appointed an Auditor of the

                 Tribunal of the Roman Rota on November 20,

                 1972, and taught at the 'Studio Rotale' and at

                 the Pontifical Gregorian University; and

                            "WHEREAS, Edward Cardinal Egan was

                 appointed Auxiliary Bishop of New York in

                 April 1985 and was consecrated in Rome on

                 May 22, 1985, by Cardinal Bernardin Gantin,

                 Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops.  He

                 was made Bishop of Bridgeport on November 5,

                 1988, and then Archbishop of New York on

                 May 11, 2000; and

                            "WHEREAS, Avery Cardinal Dulles was

                 raised a Presbyterian and claimed to be an

                 agnostic when he entered Harvard in 1936.  In

                 1940, he converted to Catholicism; and

                            "WHEREAS, Avery Cardinal Dulles

                 served in intelligence in the Naval Reserve.

                 He was decorated with the 'Croix de Guerre' in





                                                          1970



                 1945 for his work in communication with the

                 French Navy; and

                            "WHEREAS, Avery Cardinal Dulles

                 joined the Jesuits in 1946.  He was ordained a

                 priest for the Jesuits in 1956 at Fordham

                 University, New York, by Francis Cardinal

                 Spellman; and

                            "WHEREAS, Avery Cardinal Dulles

                 joined the faculty of Fordham University in

                 1951 as a professor of philosophy.  Since

                 1988, he has been the Laurence J. McGinley

                 Professor of Religion and Society at Fordham

                 University, and he is currently a consultant

                 to the Committee on Doctrine of the NCCB, an

                 author, and a lecturer; and

                            "WHEREAS, Theodore Cardinal

                 McCarrick was ordained on May 31, 1958,

                 following studies at St. Joseph's Seminary.

                 He obtained a Master's Degree in History and a

                 Doctorate in Sociology from Catholic

                 University of America; and

                            "WHEREAS, Theodore Cardinal

                 McCarrick was President of Catholic University

                 of Puerto Rico from 1965 to 1969.  He was made

                 Secretary Adjunct for Catholic Education in





                                                          1971



                 the Archdiocese of New York and worked in Most

                 Blessed Sacrament Parish from 1969 until 1971;

                 and

                            "WHEREAS, Theodore Cardinal

                 McCarrick served as Secretary to New York's

                 Terence Cardinal Cooke before being named

                 Auxiliary Bishop of New York in 1977.  He was

                 appointed the first bishop of the new diocese

                 of Metuchen, New Jersey, in 1981; and

                            "WHEREAS, Theodore Cardinal

                 McCarrick was made Archbishop of Newark in

                 1986 and was also made Superior of the Sui

                 Juris Mission of Turks and Caicos.  He was

                 appointed as Archbishop of Washington, D.C.,

                 in November 2000; and

                            "WHEREAS, New York State is blessed

                 to have connections with three such

                 illustrious Princes of the Church; and

                            "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

                 Legislative Body that when individuals of such

                 noble aims and accomplishments are brought to

                 our attention, it is appropriate to commend

                 them for their many benevolent deeds as they

                 enter a new and challenging experience; now,

                 therefore, be it





                                                          1972



                            "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

                 Body pause in its deliberations to

                 congratulate Edward Cardinal Egan, Theodore

                 Cardinal McCarrick, and Avery Cardinal Dulles

                 on their recent elevation to the august

                 position of Cardinal; and be it further

                            "RESOLVED, That copies of this

                 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

                 to Edward Cardinal Egan, Theodore Cardinal

                 McCarrick, Avery Cardinal Dulles, the

                 Archdiocese of New York, and the Bishops of

                 the Dioceses of Albany, Brooklyn, Buffalo,

                 Ogdensburg, Rochester, Rockville Centre, and

                 Syracuse."

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the resolution.  All those in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

                 adopted.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we open the resolution up to all the





                                                          1973



                 members of the Senate for cosponsorship.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    We shall,

                 Senator.

                            All members who -- if any -- do not

                 wish to have their names added to this

                 resolution, please notify the desk.

                            Senator Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  It's my distinct honor and

                 pleasure, as a former altar boy, to introduce

                 to my colleagues 12 bishops who are with us

                 here today.

                            And I would ask that each might

                 stand and just wave, and we'll hold the

                 applause till the end.

                            Bishop Gerald Barbarito, the Bishop

                 of Ogdensburg.

                            Bishop Thomas Daily, Bishop of

                 Brooklyn.

                            Bishop Howard Hubbard, the Bishop

                 of Albany.

                            Bishop Henry Mansell, Bishop of

                 Buffalo.

                            Bishop James Moynihan, Bishop of

                 Syracuse.





                                                          1974



                            Reverend Monsignor John Alesandro,

                 Diocesan Administrator of the Diocese of

                 Rockville Centre.

                            Bishop Robert Brucato, Auxiliary

                 Bishop of New York.

                            Bishop Ignatius Catenello,

                 Auxiliary Bishop of Brooklyn.

                            Bishop Basil Lostin, Bishop of the

                 Ukrainian Diocese of Stamford.

                            Bishop James McCarthy, Auxiliary

                 Bishop of New York.

                            Bishop John McGann, Retired Bishop

                 of Rockville Centre.

                            Bishop Joseph Sullivan, Auxiliary

                 Bishop of Brooklyn.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Let me briefly

                 welcome Cardinal Egan here.  We're delighted

                 he's become a New Yorker.  We look forward to

                 many years of his leadership, and we thank the

                 entire Catholic Conference, on behalf of my





                                                          1975



                 Democratic Conference here, for everything

                 that you do and all of your work and the many

                 services you provide to our constituents.

                            I just point out to Cardinal Egan,

                 who prayed for us and our fellows in state

                 government, that Bishop Hubbard, who's here a

                 lot, looks down on us, he knows what's going

                 on here, and he prays for the people of

                 New York State.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    But the fact is,

                 we are certainly delighted by Cardinal

                 Egan's -- the Holy Father's choice of Cardinal

                 Egan to the College of Cardinals.

                            I certainly am delighted that

                 Cardinal Dulles, a noted theologian, has also

                 been elevated to the College.

                            And if I may add a personal note

                 about someone who's not here, Cardinal

                 McCarrick.  In 1963, at the age of 18, I left

                 the Diocese of Trenton and went to the

                 National Pontifical University, otherwise

                 known as Catholic University of America, and

                 in the first week met a young priest there,

                 Father Ted McCarrick, who was among a group of





                                                          1976



                 faculty -- he was then in administration

                 there, and was completing his Ph.D. -- who

                 mentored us.  And they did it so well we

                 didn't know we were being mentored.

                            You know, we'd find six guys would

                 be out to dinner with Father McCarrick at a

                 nice restaurant in Washington.  And it wasn't

                 until many years later I realized this was

                 part of the program, so to speak.  And we'd

                 carefully watch to see which fork or knife he

                 picked up, and we learned a lot of life skills

                 that way.

                            And I've known Cardinal McCarrick

                 for these last 38 years in a very personal

                 way -- I've been to some of his birthday

                 parties over the years.  And so on a personal

                 level, I have to make that note that he's

                 someone who has always been an important

                 person in my life.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Connor.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 I believe that we're going to return to





                                                          1977



                 reports of standing committees.  And I believe

                 that there is a report at the desk from the

                 Finance Committee.

                            And while we're calling that, and

                 I'm on my feet, just to have the last word as

                 relates to the Cardinal, I want to say how

                 much I appreciated the words of my colleague

                 Senator Connor in terms of his exposure.

                            And also to the Bishops and to the

                 Cardinal, in thanking you for all of your good

                 wishes and for your prayers.  And ask you to

                 say a special prayer for the Minority in this

                 house, because they need it desperately.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you.  Thank

                 you very much, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno, I

                 might add to your comments that a higher power

                 has called, through the voice of the Cardinal,

                 who would like the floor.  And I will

                 certainly defer to that higher power.

                            ARCHBISHOP EGAN:    I was afraid I

                 was breaking Robert's Rules of Order.

                            But I don't want to leave without

                 thanking you most sincerely for your warmth





                                                          1978



                 and your kindness and for this wonderful

                 honor.

                            Believe me, I'm very touched.  I

                 cannot believe that in eight months I've made

                 my way here, to the Senate of New York, and

                 that you have been so extraordinarily kind to

                 me.

                            I would like to say that when

                 Bishop Hubbard asks to pray for the people,

                 it's because he wants the Lord to thank them

                 for choosing you.  So see it that way, all

                 right?

                            (Laughter.)

                            ARCHBISHOP EGAN:    And finally,

                 I'd like to note that there were only three

                 named to the College of Cardinals this time by

                 our Holy Father.

                            And uncarefully one day, I said to

                 the New York Times:  "It's a clean sweep for

                 New York."  Someone said to me afterwards, "I

                 don't know if that's a good way to put it."

                            But the more I think about it, I

                 think it's excellent.  It was a clean sweep

                 for New York, and New York has done so much

                 good for the Church, and for the churches and





                                                          1979



                 for the synagogues and for all who are

                 committed to the service of our people in the

                 name of the Divinity.

                            So once again, I thank you most

                 sincerely.  I am extraordinarily honored.

                 I'll try to live up to it.  And I'll keep

                 praying for all of you.

                            Thank you so much.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Return to reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following bill direct to third reading:

                 Senate Print 3456, Budget Bill, an act to

                 amend Chapters 50, 53, and 55 of the Laws of

                 2000.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the bill will be reported to third

                 reading.

                            Senator Stafford, nominations?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Please, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary





                                                          1980



                 will read, Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you.

                 Thank you.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As Chairman of the Metropolitan

                 Transportation Authority, Peter S. Kalikow, of

                 New York City.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, I know that this is a very, very

                 important day for us.  But I have to say that

                 we're certainly pleased that you've stayed

                 right up there -- we're certainly pleased that

                 you are still right up there on the rostrum,

                 and we're all doing our duty.

                            Madam President, we had three fine

                 nominations before us today.  And it's a

                 pleasure for me to at this time yield to the

                 Senator from Manhattan for the first

                 nomination -- the chairman of the MTA, Peter

                 S. Kalikow, one of the excellent

                 nominations -- Senator Goodman.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman.





                                                          1981



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, distinguished guests and members of

                 this great chamber, it's a privilege, a

                 pleasure, and I deem it a high honor today to

                 be able to present to you for your

                 consideration the name of Peter S. Kalikow as

                 chairman of the Metropolitan Transit

                 Authority.

                            Peter Kalikow is an individual I've

                 had the pleasure of knowing in New York City

                 for a number of years and a man for whom I've

                 garnered the highest respect.  He is not only

                 an individual of keen energy and great

                 dedication to the public interest, he's also

                 an outspoken advocate of transportation in its

                 many forms.

                            He's had a truly distinguished

                 career.  I'd like to take a moment to acquaint

                 you with some of the highlights of that

                 remarkable series of accomplishments.

                            First of all, he's a graduate of

                 Hofstra College and graduated from there in

                 1965.  And, in the 35, 36 years since, has had

                 one of the more distinguished careers of any

                 New Yorker that I can think of.





                                                          1982



                            Specifically, he's been a member of

                 the New York City Metropolitan Transit

                 Authority and its vice chairman in recent

                 years.  He's a commissioner of the New York

                 State Port Authority; that is, the Port

                 Authority of New York and New Jersey.  He's a

                 former member and owner and publisher of the

                 New York Post.

                            He's chairman of the Grand Central

                 Partnership Board of Directors, and has been a

                 member of the Metropolitan Transit Authority,

                 serving with great distinction, and has

                 recently enunciated a series of ideas which

                 are of great significance to all New Yorkers.

                            Specifically, he has come out in

                 strong favor of the development of a

                 full-length Second Avenue Subway, which will

                 have a major economic impact on the whole of

                 Manhattan and all abutting areas.  He has also

                 done a very important job in regard to the

                 connecting trunk line which will bring -

                 which will connect the Long Island Railroad to

                 Grand Central Station, easing the burden of

                 the daily commute for many thousands of

                 commuters who come to New York City every day.





                                                          1983



                            Mr. Kalikow is a man who has been a

                 very distinguished leader of his chosen field

                 of real estate.  He's been honored repeatedly

                 by the Real Estate Board of New York.

                            He's a philanthropist of

                 considerable note, having created the

                 pediatric intensive care unit at New York

                 Hospital with his wife, Mary.  He's a trustee

                 of New York's Columbia-New York Presbyterian

                 Hospital and chairman of its pediatric

                 development committee, caring deeply about the

                 welfare of children.

                            He's on the board of directors of

                 the Jewish National Fund and was honored by

                 being given the Peace Medal, which is the

                 State of Israel's highest civilian award, for

                 his many years in aiding that nation's

                 development.

                            Madam Chairman, let me say to you

                 that Mr. Peter Kalikow in my judgment

                 represents the highest degree of integrity and

                 ability that we can have in a public servant.

                 He's a man of great drive, and I think anyone

                 who knows him and speaks with him is aware of

                 the fact that his energy will be well applied





                                                          1984



                 in his great new responsibilities.

                            Having been involved with both the

                 Port Authority and the MTA at some length,

                 he's familiar with the bridges, the tunnels,

                 all of the arteries which cause New York to be

                 economically one of the greatest areas in the

                 world.  And I think that his availability in

                 assuming responsibility for these areas of

                 ingress and egress from the city will assure

                 that this will be smoothly run and well taken

                 care of.

                            One of his significant

                 accomplishments while acting as chairman -

                 Madam President, may I ask you for a little

                 order, if you please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, as

                 usual, we were in sync.  I had just gaveled as

                 you requested that.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you.

                 It's called mental-to-gavel telepathy, Madam

                 President.

                            May I say to you that in one of his

                 unique and notable accomplishments he has

                 taken the remarkable ability of motorists to

                 drive quickly through the toll booths with the





                                                          1985



                 special credential which is now available for

                 that purpose, and extending that privilege to

                 motorists not only from New York City but

                 surrounding regions as well.  A very important

                 development, and a very great conservative

                 time for motoring commuters.

                            I could go on and on and try to

                 heap high the accomplishments of this man, but

                 let me simply say that we're very lucky that

                 an individual of his stature and caliber is

                 willing to devote as much of his time as he

                 has to public service.

                            And by placing him in the

                 chairmanship of the MTA, we will assure that

                 that sensitive post is in good hands.  In

                 fact, I can think of none better to serve in

                 this very distinguished post.

                            Madam President, I present to you

                 his name and hope that this house will quickly

                 approve him as he richly deserves to be

                 approved.  Thank you very much indeed.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Senator Stachowski, I believe, is

                 next.





                                                          1986



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to second the nomination of

                 Mr. Kalikow.  I was thoroughly impressed by

                 his knowledge of the MTA and its many

                 functions.  A group of my colleagues at the

                 Finance meeting asked him a myriad of

                 questions on a lot of different issues that

                 concerned them from their parts of the City of

                 New York, and he was not only aware of each

                 one but he had a good grasp of the subject.

                            And it was a breath of fresh air to

                 hear a nominee that was so up on the issues,

                 had ideas of how to deal with some of them,

                 and had the energy to say that he was going to

                 go and try to make a lot of these things

                 happen.

                            I think that he has a good

                 knowledge of what public service is.  He has

                 the right attitude to handle the MTA and get

                 it to serve the people of New York better, to

                 alleviate some of their travel problems.

                            And I think that it's my great

                 pleasure to rise and second the nomination of

                 Mr. Kalikow.





                                                          1987



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes, I also

                 rise to second the nomination of Mr. Kalikow.

                            I want to commend the Governor for

                 this appointment.  Mr. Kalikow, as you've

                 heard from Senator Stachowski and Senator

                 Goodman, is an outstanding real estate

                 developer, philanthropist, and has served with

                 distinction for several years as a member of

                 the MTA and the Port Authority.

                            I believe he is the first chairman

                 of the MTA in history who also is a member of

                 the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

                 Now, this creates certain problems, because I

                 believe the capital plan for the MTA is over

                 $17 billion and for the Port Authority is over

                 $14 billion.  And any way we can be helpful to

                 him, we will.

                            And I know with his contacts in the

                 federal government and the city government

                 there will be ways of reaching, if not all of

                 this total, most of this total for the benefit

                 of the entire metropolitan New York region.

                            Lastly, but not least -

                 Mr. Kalikow is probably not aware of the





                                                          1988



                 fact -- there is life before the New York

                 State Senate, as I'm told there is life after

                 the New York State Senate.  Almost twenty

                 years ago, Mr. Kalikow and his father received

                 the award of Men of the Year from UJA

                 Federation of New York.  I was on the

                 committee as a trustee, and a member of the

                 executive committee of UJA Federation that

                 approved the award and also presented the

                 award with my colleagues.

                            And I am delighted that this man,

                 who has ability and commitment and courage

                 and, we hope, support, will be able to build

                 upon what Virgil Conway has done over these

                 last few years and make the MTA the

                 outstanding institution it is and even further

                 advance it for the future for the citizens of

                 the City and State of New York.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to support this nomination.





                                                          1989



                 The Governor would have been hard pressed to

                 come up a nominee with a more impressive

                 resume in both the public sector and the

                 private sector.

                            And as Senator Stachowski

                 illustrated before, it was refreshing to have

                 someone come before the Senate Finance

                 Committee with a very complete understanding

                 of the very important issues that will be

                 faced by that nominee once they assume the

                 position for which they have been nominated.

                            On a personal level, I was

                 gratified that, as I was asking the nominee

                 certain very parochial questions, he was very

                 in tune and very responsive to the needs in my

                 communities.  And it's not just because the

                 nominee grew up in Forest Hills, it's because

                 he is dedicated and compassionate and has a

                 very full understanding of the one problem

                 that I raised with him this morning, and that

                 I've raised on this floor before -- the last

                 time being about a week ago -- and that's the

                 number of pedestrian deaths on Queens

                 Boulevard.

                            And just to reiterate some of the





                                                          1990



                 numbers, 73 people dead since 1993, an average

                 of one pedestrian fatality every six weeks on

                 Queens Boulevard.  Eighty-nine percent of the

                 deaths pedestrian error, 60 percent of the

                 deaths senior citizens.  And I should note

                 that this particular area has the highest

                 concentration of senior citizens in the entire

                 state of New York.

                            We're doing a number of things to

                 improve the conditions.  But MTA and the

                 Transit Authority can have a dramatic impact

                 here by examining the technical feasibility

                 and the monetary feasibility of installing

                 escalators on seven subway underpasses that

                 cut underneath this dangerous intersection to

                 avoid unnecessary crossings which just

                 compromise people's health and lives in some

                 cases.

                            And I was very much gratified that

                 not only Mark Shaw, the Executive Director of

                 the MTA, was receptive when I first broached

                 this idea with him several weeks ago, but at

                 this morning's hearing that Mr. Kalikow was

                 also receptive.

                            As he indicated during that





                                                          1991



                 committee meeting, when he was growing up in

                 the area, to avoid the dangerous crossings on

                 Queens Boulevard, he too would cut underneath,

                 using the subways.  So he recognizes that

                 senior citizens often cannot do that and that

                 we really have to explore ways to avoid people

                 from being unnecessarily killed or injured on

                 that roadway.

                            So I'm thrilled that he is

                 enthusiastic about examining that issue and

                 that he is very knowledgeable on all of the

                 other issues of concern to us, including the

                 extension of the Second Avenue Subway and a

                 series of transportation initiatives that are

                 absolutely essential to the economic vitality

                 of the New York metropolitan region.

                            So having said that, I fully

                 support this nominee and commend the Governor

                 on an excellent, excellent choice.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maltese.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

                 President, I rise to also second the motion,

                 the resolution, and wish to commend Governor

                 Pataki on this fine appointment.

                            Mr. Kalikow's accomplishments speak





                                                          1992



                 for themselves.  They are legend.  The

                 comments of the Senate Minority indicate that

                 he can reach across to all political parties,

                 to people in all walks of life.  His

                 experience and breadth of knowledge and

                 experience is so wide that it's almost as if

                 he came from central casting for this

                 position.

                            Mr. Kalikow is of course a

                 gentleman, a gentle man with a steel core, a

                 man who has, by his many, many charitable

                 endeavors over the years, contributed so much

                 to our great state and to the nation.

                            I'm very pleased to second the

                 nomination of a good friend, someone who will

                 behave in the office of chairman of the MTA in

                 a way that will bring credit not only to

                 himself and his family but to the people of

                 New York and to the Governor that appointed

                 him.

                            I'm very proud to second the

                 nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.





                                                          1993



                            I'd like to join others in

                 seconding this nomination.  Peter Kalikow has

                 a home in my senate district, and we have

                 exchanged pleasantries over a number of years.

                            I just can't say enough about his

                 talents.  Both in the area of public service

                 to this state, and as a businessperson, he has

                 shown that he has extraordinary skills.  And I

                 think that he will continue to demonstrate the

                 use of his talents in his chairmanship in a

                 very important area.

                            So it gives me great pleasure,

                 Madam President, to second this nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor,

                 to close.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I'm delighted to second the

                 confirmation of Peter Kalikow.  He's been a

                 friend for years but, more importantly, he's

                 been a friend to all of New York City in his

                 charitable work.  He's been a successful -

                 obviously, successful businessman.

                            And the thing we all do appreciate

                 is his willingness to serve, his willingness





                                                          1994



                 to serve on the MTA board and now to serve as

                 the chair.  And I know he will do a superb

                 job.

                            I was frankly delighted, but not

                 the least bit surprised, when the members of

                 my conference who serve on the Finance

                 Committee reported to me that -- including

                 some who are not from New York City and not as

                 familiar with Peter's fine work in the past -

                 who reported to me:  Wow, what a nominee.  We

                 asked a lot of questions because we have a lot

                 of concerns, obviously, about transportation

                 in the metropolitan area.  We asked a lot of

                 questions, and he knew all the answers, he

                 articulated them well.

                            He obviously is committed to doing

                 a superb job.  I know he will.  I'm delighted

                 to second this nominee.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    To close for the

                 Majority, Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I too am delighted to join with my

                 colleagues in thanking and congratulating the

                 Governor on your appointment.





                                                          1995



                            I've had the pleasure of knowing

                 Peter for many years, having worked with him

                 on many MTA issues as the Senate

                 representative to the MTA Capital Review

                 Board, where there are still many challenges

                 ahead of us in making sure that whether it's

                 the New York City subway system, the Long

                 Island railroad, Metro North, or our bus

                 services, that they are the best and what are

                 our constituents deserve.

                            Peter, by your appointment,

                 Governor Pataki -- and of Virgil Conway before

                 you -- I think by both of those appointments,

                 the Governor has indicated his concern and his

                 desire and his understanding that we have to

                 have a state-of-the-art mass transit system

                 for all of our hundreds of thousands of

                 constituents that use the system on a daily

                 basis.  It has to be safe, it has to be clean,

                 it has to be courteous, and it has to be on

                 time.  And I know you will meet those

                 challenges in the years to come.

                            So congratulations to you, my

                 friend.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is





                                                          1996



                 on the confirmation of Peter S. Kalikow, of

                 New York City, to serve as chairman of the

                 Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

                            All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And as President of the Senate, on

                 behalf of the Senate, I'd like to acknowledge

                 the presence of the chairman of the

                 Metropolitan Transition Authority, Peter S.

                 Kalikow, who is here with his son, Nicholas.

                            I've had the privilege and

                 educational opportunity of working with

                 Chairman Kalikow on other initiatives.  And

                 without reservation, I know the Governor has

                 made an excellent choice to succeed another

                 excellent chairman, Virgil Conway.

                            Congratulations, Peter, and best

                 wishes.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary





                                                          1997



                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Metropolitan Transportation Authority,

                 Edward B. Dunn, of Rye.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, another excellent appointment.

                            And to move Ted Dunn's nomination,

                 I yield to the Senator from Westchester.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Thank you very

                 much, Senator, and Madam President.

                            It's my pleasure to stand in

                 support of the nomination of Ted Dunn to the

                 MTA.  Ted Dunn is someone who was educated at

                 Harvard, served as a successful businessman,

                 served as the mayor of the City of Rye in

                 Westchester County, has been involved in a

                 number of local activities, most worthy as

                 the -- serving as the trustee of one of our

                 colleges in Westchester County, and has

                 continued to serve as a member of the MTA in a

                 way that makes us all proud.  Serving as the

                 Westchester representative, serving with then

                 Virgil Conway, who did such an outstanding job





                                                          1998



                 as the chairman of the MTA.

                            And also I want to congratulate

                 Peter Kalikow on his appointment as the new

                 chairman of the MTA.

                            So it is my pleasure today, Madam

                 President, to second the nomination of Ted

                 Dunn as a member of the MTA and hope that he

                 continues the great work that you continue to

                 provide to not only to the people of

                 Westchester but to the people of Long Island

                 and the people of the City of New York as

                 well.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I rise to second the nomination of

                 Ted Dunn.  Ted has done just very wonderful

                 work in Westchester and in the financial

                 field.  And he has been on the MTA board.  He

                 is very knowledgeable of the whole process and

                 all the work that is being done there.

                            And I think this is -- it's totally

                 appropriate that we should want to have him

                 continue in his service.  He has been willing





                                                          1999



                 to take on this for another term.  And I think

                 we are the beneficiaries, because his

                 financial background, his knowledge of the

                 transit systems -- actually, he lives close by

                 to where I live, and we both live like three

                 minutes away from our local Metro North

                 station, which is of course -- Metro North

                 being a part of the MTA.

                            And I think that his commitment to

                 Westchester, his commitment to transportation,

                 and his financial skills make this really an

                 extraordinary nominee, and I'm delighted he

                 has decided to serve again.

                            I second his nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the reappointment of Edward B. Dunn, of

                 Rye, as a member of the Metropolitan

                 Transportation Authority, for a term to expire

                 on June 3rd in the year 2006.

                            All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.





                                                          2000



                            Congratulations to Ted Dunn.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the State Board of Parole, Vernon C. Manley,

                 of New York City.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, for our third fine appearance

                 today, we have Vernon Manley, nominated for

                 reappointment to the Parole Board.

                            And it's a pleasure for me to yield

                 to Senator Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Thank you, Senator Stafford.

                            As chairman of the Crime Victims,

                 Crime and Corrections Committee, with

                 jurisdiction over the members of the Parole

                 Board and the operations of the Parole Board,

                 it is with great pleasure that I rise for the

                 renomination, reappointment of Vernon C.

                 Manley to serve as a member of the Parole





                                                          2001



                 Board.

                            Mr. Manley has served with

                 distinction in a variety of governmental and

                 community-based operations in the City of

                 New York, and has served for the last half

                 year with extreme distinction as a member of

                 the Parole Board.

                            That we are benefited by someone

                 with as diverse qualifications as Mr. Manley,

                 involved in the workings of neighborhood

                 organizations within the city of New York, who

                 has worked within the municipal government of

                 the City of New York, has been a very

                 aggressive and ambitious member of the Parole

                 Board during his brief tenure.

                            And Governor Pataki is certainly

                 right to renominate Mr. Manley for service in

                 this capacity.  The committee recommends and

                 urges his renomination.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I rise to second the nomination.  I





                                                          2002



                 think that -- I'm very happy.  I don't know

                 personally Mr. Manley, but -- and I apologize

                 that during the time that we had our Finance

                 Committee meeting, we were involved with a

                 hearing on the criminal justice system.

                            And one of the issues raised in the

                 context of the hearing and the press

                 conference and the hearings that we've held,

                 the issue of the Parole Board has loomed as

                 one of the major questions and areas that we

                 need to work more on.

                            And so I'm very happy that we have

                 a person from New York City who probably has a

                 much better understanding of all of the unique

                 aspects of that environment and ways in which

                 those things come to play as it relates to

                 people who may be in our corrections system

                 and who may be looking to be paroled.  It's

                 very good to have a person who not only has

                 the experience and the expertise but who also

                 has the sensitivity.

                            So I want to commend the Governor

                 on this appointment.  And I look forward to

                 having some dialogue, hopefully, with

                 Mr. Manley as it relates to some of his ideas





                                                          2003



                 and some of the things that he thinks that we

                 might do as a legislative body to help support

                 what the role of the Parole Board is.  Because

                 we understand its significance as it relates

                 to addressing the whole issue of our

                 corrections and criminal justice system.

                            So I look forward to working with

                 you.  And hopefully this is one of the better

                 appointments that the Governor has made in the

                 time that I'm here.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I would certainly want Senator

                 Montgomery to know that her assumption, having

                 not the pleasure of getting to know

                 Mr. Manley, is very well taken.

                            I actually have known Vernon Manley

                 for over ten years.  And at one point, Madam

                 President, he worked with a former colleague

                 of ours who I saw in the chamber yesterday,

                 the former Senator Catherine Abate.

                            What has always struck me about

                 Mr. Manley, in addition to his own personal

                 integrity, was his understanding of many of





                                                          2004



                 the issues that involve New York City,

                 particularly placement of services.  As much

                 as we do need these types of facilities, they

                 often conflict with the needs of a

                 neighborhood and community.

                            Our office always got a sympathetic

                 ear when we spoke to Mr. Manley when he worked

                 with the previous mayoral administration.

                            And in addition, just his

                 understanding of the fact that people have at

                 times committed harm against society and it's

                 our public policy to punish them, but if they

                 have taken that punishment and in some way

                 been rehabilitated that we try to hope that we

                 can clean the slate with them if they work

                 through the parole process.

                            So I couldn't think of a better

                 person that the Governor could have chosen -

                 the fact that he hails from my district only

                 being a minor consideration.

                            I would say that I hope that -- I

                 wish him well and wish the Parole Board well,

                 with his voice among them.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Vernon C. Manley, of





                                                          2005



                 New York City, for reappointment as a member

                 of the State Board of Parole, for a term to

                 expire on June 18th in the year 2006.

                            All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            Congratulations, Mr. Manley, on

                 your confirmation.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Continuing Care Retirement Community

                 Council, Edward Charles Weeks, of Buffalo.

                            As members of the Medical Advisory

                 Committee, John Angerosa, Jr., M.D., of

                 Scotia; Norman Loomis, M.D., of Ontario;

                 Dennis P. Norfleet, of Oswego; Michael P.M.

                 Pond, M.D., of Saranac Lake; and Roger W.

                 Triftshauser, D.D.S., of Batavia.

                            As a member of the Council on Human

                 Blood and Transfusion Services, William Allen





                                                          2006



                 Fricke, M.D., of Rochester.

                            As a member of the Public Health

                 Council, Stephen A. Jennings, of Watertown.

                            As a member of the State Camp

                 Advisory Council, Sheila Cohen, of Freeport.

                            As a member of the State Hospital

                 Review and Planning Council, James J. Daly, of

                 Lawrence.

                            As a member of the Board of

                 Visitors of the Helen Hayes Hospital, Jeffrey

                 Sweet, of Peekskill.

                            And as a member of the Board of

                 Visitors of the New York State Home for

                 Veterans and Their Dependents at Oxford,

                 William E. Randall, II, of Marathon.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move the

                 nominations, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Edward Charles Weeks,

                 of Buffalo, for reappointment as a member of

                 Continuing Care Retirement Community Council,

                 for a term to expire on June 24th in the year

                 2002; and on the reappointments of the members

                 of the Medical Advisory Committee, for terms





                                                          2007



                 to expire on May 31, 2001, with the exception

                 of John Angerosa, Jr., who is being confirmed

                 for a term to expire on May 31st in the year

                 2002, and Norman Loomis, M.D., for a term to

                 expire May 31, 2002; and also for the

                 confirmation of the members of the Council on

                 Human Blood and Transfusion Services,

                 specifically William Allen Fricke, M.D., for a

                 term to expire December 31st in the year 2002;

                 and for the confirmation of the following:

                 Member of the Public Health Council, member of

                 the State Camp Advisory Council, member of the

                 State Hospital Review and Planning Council -

                            Could we please have order in the

                 chamber so the nominations can be heard.

                            -- member of the Board of Visitors

                 of the Helen Hayes Hospital, and a member of

                 the Board of Visitors of the New York State

                 Home for Veterans and Their Dependents at

                 Oxford.

                            All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are





                                                          2008



                 hereby confirmed.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  There will be an immediate

                 Majority Conference in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            And please recognize Senator

                 Paterson for an announcement.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Majority in the

                 Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, there will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Minority in the Minority Conference

                 Room, which is Room 3.14, which is also the

                 mathematical division of pi.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be a

                 meeting of the Minority Conference in Room

                 314.

                            The Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 3:58 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 4:30 p.m.)





                                                          2009



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 please come to order.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we ask for an immediate meeting in the

                 Majority Conference Room of the Commerce,

                 Economic Development and Small Business

                 Committee, chaired by Senator Alesi.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting in the Majority Conference

                 Room of the Commerce, Economic Development and

                 Small Business Committee, chaired by Senator

                 Alesi.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we return at this time to motions and

                 resolutions, and adopt the Resolution

                 Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Motions and

                 resolutions.

                            All in favor of adopting the

                 Resolution Calendar signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)





                                                          2010



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Resolution

                 Calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 I have a privileged resolution at the desk.  I

                 would ask that the title be read and move for

                 its immediate adoption.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    The

                 Secretary will read Privileged Resolution 785.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

                 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and

                 Assembly Number 785, authorizing the Senate

                 and Assembly of New York State to purchase

                 copies the New York Red Book for 2001-2002.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will call the roll on the resolution.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

                 adopted.

                            Senator Fuschillo, for a motion.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, on behalf of Senator Maziarz, on

                 page Number 16 I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 174, Senate





                                                          2011



                 Print Number 1898, and ask that said bill

                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendment is

                 received, and the bill will retain its place

                 on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time take up the

                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 68, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 487,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to aggravated unlicensed

                 operation.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 86, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 389, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 policy coverage.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid





                                                          2012



                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 89, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1575, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 expanding.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Last section.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 92, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 860, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to aggravated unlicensed operation.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 143, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 64, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to persons and officials.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid





                                                          2013



                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 146, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 587, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

                 to extensions.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 147, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 588, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation

                 to procedures.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 158, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1087, an

                 act to direct the Department of Public

                 Service.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 162, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1449, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law and





                                                          2014



                 others, in relation to penalties.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 163, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 833, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 certain BOCES programs.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 166, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2651, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 the terms of members of the Board of Regents.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            Senator Bruno, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time take up Calendar Number

                 143.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar Number 143.





                                                          2015



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 143, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 64, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to persons and officials.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, we discussed this bill yesterday,

                 with the kind responses from Senator Velella.

                 And when we left off, Senator Onorato was just

                 asking for the floor.

                            I just wanted to bring that up, if

                 that's of any help.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Well, Senator

                 Onorato, do you wish to have to have the

                 floor?  If you stand, I will consider that.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, will Senator Velella answer a

                 question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Velella,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Certainly.





                                                          2016



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    It's a brief

                 question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator

                 Velella, this has to do with the EMTs.  Prior

                 to this legislation, did you have any

                 conference at all or understanding with the

                 EMTs?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    With who?

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    With the

                 emergency -

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Okay.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Did they agree

                 that they were willing to go along with this

                 here?  Did it in any way violate their

                 contractual union agreement with the City of

                 New York?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    I'm not aware

                 of any.  And as far as I know, the EMT people

                 that spoke with me were in support of this.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    They were

                 supportive of it.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    And the other





                                                          2017



                 question that I had in mind was, would there

                 be additional training required on the part of

                 the EMT now to start recognizing some of these

                 things that they will be asked to report on?

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Yes, Senator.

                            As I indicated yesterday, all those

                 groups that will be covered by the law -

                 there are other groups that are covered that

                 are required to make these reports.  There are

                 standards set out in the law for them to make

                 those reports and standards for which they

                 should -- things that they should be looking

                 for.

                            So that in and of itself sets the

                 criteria.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of the

                 calendar month next succeeding the 60th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is





                                                          2018



                 passed.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we now call up Calendar Number 86.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 86.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 86, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 389, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 policy coverage.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill would prevent the refusal

                 to issue or renew any policy of life or

                 non-cancelable disability insurance based

                 solely on the basis of genetic testing or

                 because an individual has had any type of

                 cancer, the latter providing that the initial

                 diagnosis of such disease occurred at least

                 three years prior to the date of application

                 and a physician has certified that the disease

                 has not reoccurred.





                                                          2019



                            In 1993, we passed this type of

                 legislation concerning breast cancer in the

                 Senate.  And I believe at that time Senator

                 Oppenheimer raised the point why not all

                 cancer.  We have done that.

                            It has passed the Senate

                 unanimously in '97, '98, '99, and the year

                 2000.  And unfortunately, the Assembly has not

                 passed this legislation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Skelos would yield for a

                 couple of questions.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator

                 Skelos, the definition that you use in the

                 legislation, is that accepted by the American

                 Medical Association?  Is this a sound

                 definition?  Because my fear is -- which will

                 probably be the precursor to my next

                 question -- is that it in a sense could act as





                                                          2020



                 a loophole in the legislation that you're

                 trying to pass.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No, I think it's

                 a sufficient definition.

                            And I want to point out that it is

                 supported by the American College of

                 Obstetrics and Gynecologists.  So I think if

                 there was a defect in the legislation, that

                 certainly they would have so indicated.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Skelos would continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, in

                 your explanation I missed your comments about

                 some of the other forms of cancer.  Would you

                 mind restating them for me?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I didn't

                 mention -- if I could, Madam President, I

                 didn't mention any types of cancer.  I





                                                          2021



                 mentioned cancer.

                            Prior to -- we've passed

                 legislation, I believe it was in 1993 -- '97,

                 rather, just relating to breast cancer.  I

                 believe at that time Senator Oppenheimer

                 indicated why not all cancer.  And this is

                 what this legislation is today that passed, at

                 least on three or four occasions, unanimously

                 in the State Senate.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I thank Senator Skelos for the

                 clarification.  And if he would yield for

                 another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 with a question, Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, do

                 you think that in some respects that this

                 legislation is almost defeated by the use of

                 the term "genetic predisposition," which is

                 kind of a new terminology and a new study in

                 our society, and one that may or may not be





                                                          2022



                 proven to be valuable when you think of

                 actuarial tables, and that with genetic

                 predisposition being in a sense almost written

                 into the law that in the future it might

                 actually be used to stop people from getting

                 treatment when you don't really know for a

                 fact that they're really going to -- well, it

                 may stop people from getting insurance when

                 you really don't know for a fact that they're

                 going to need treatment?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Oh, that's the

                 answer?  No?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    That's correct,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            Read the last section.

                            Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would the sponsor yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam





                                                          2023



                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane, with a question.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            On page 1, lines 5 and 6 read

                 "unless action is based upon sound actuarial

                 principles."  Would the sponsor tell us what

                 that could mean in practice?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I'm sorry, I

                 didn't hear.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    To repeat, on

                 page 1 of the bill, lines 5 and 6, the bill

                 reads "unless action is based upon sound

                 actuarial principles."  And I'm wondering if

                 the sponsor could tell us what that would mean

                 in practice.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    This is in

                 current law.  It's almost boilerplate

                 legislation.  It's in Section 2606 of the

                 Unfair Practices Act, Section 2608 also.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?





                                                          2024



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is it possible,

                 however, that this could mean that an

                 insurance company, based upon actuarial

                 principles, would end up not having to provide

                 the coverage?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could,

                 Madam President, the possibility could occur.

                 But that would always -- that could always be

                 reviewable by the Superintendent of Insurance.

                            And remember, if it's based solely

                 on a person's predisposition.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could just

                 correct that.  If it's based solely on the

                 basis of genetic testing.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Genetic testing.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.





                                                          2025



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Do you yield,

                 Senator?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I do want to ask, however, that

                 since the term "genetic predisposition" is

                 used in the bill, is that a term -- and the

                 definition that's attached to it -- recognized

                 by, for instance, the American Medical

                 Association?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    The definition

                 already is current law, if you look on page 2

                 of the bill, line 4.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  But

                 through you, Madam President, because I'm

                 actually not familiar with that -- and I

                 apologize.  But was that derived from the

                 American Medical Association or some other

                 healthcare trade association?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Again, if I

                 could answer that as I answered -- if I could,





                                                          2026



                 Madam President -- Senator Paterson, there's

                 support from the American College of

                 Obstetricians and Gynecologists.  They have

                 carefully studied this bill.  It's been before

                 this house three or four times.  And I'm sure

                 if there was a problem with it, they would

                 have notified us.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Madam

                 President, if the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm wondering in

                 the genesis of the bill how it was that a

                 three-year limit was used.  What accounts for

                 using that time?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    That was taken

                 from the -- I'm sorry, I just couldn't hear

                 you, Senator Duane.

                            That was taken from the 1993

                 legislation that I passed concerning breast





                                                          2027



                 cancer and that was signed into law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if I could just have a

                 clarification about that.

                            The 1993 legislation used three

                 years as what kind of a determining factor?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    In 1993, the

                 state legislation was enacted to prohibit -

                 and this is legislation that was signed into

                 law -- life and disability insurers from

                 refusing to issue or for cancelling a policy

                 because an individual had -- has had breast

                 cancer.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    But through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm trying to get

                 at the three-year limit and why that's being

                 used, and maybe I missed why that is.  But I'm





                                                          2028



                 just still not getting that, if the sponsor

                 would just clarify why the three-year rule was

                 used.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    It's the same

                 amount of time used in the legislation passed

                 in '93.  It was supported by both houses,

                 signed by the Governor, so we felt it was

                 appropriate to have in this legislation, that

                 we could make it law.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    The insurance

                 carriers who would be impacted by this

                 legislation, have they indicated to us what

                 the anticipated financial impact of the

                 legislation might be?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    There's no memo

                 in opposition that I know of.





                                                          2029



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm assuming

                 that -- the past responses to indicate that

                 the insurance companies either don't know or

                 don't care about what the cost is to them.  Is

                 that what's being implied by their not having

                 a memo in opposition?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Nobody has come

                 to us and opposed this bill.  I have not seen

                 a memo in opposition to this bill.  And we've

                 passed it on four occasions, unanimously.  I

                 believe you supported it for the years that

                 you have been in the Senate.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?





                                                          2030



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I do want to

                 preface this question by saying that I do

                 think this is a good bill.

                            And I'm wondering whether or not

                 the sponsor feels that there should be a

                 similar policy for, for instance, the issue of

                 mental health and, as we discussed, providing

                 parity for mental health.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Senator Duane,

                 I'll comment on this legislation which is

                 before the Senate.  I know that there are

                 numerous other pieces of legislation that

                 would affect other concerns.  And certainly if

                 and when they come before the Senate for

                 consideration, I will express my opinion at

                 that time as I vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  On the bill.

                            Thank you.  I do want to repeat

                 that I do think that this is a good bill.  And

                 I'm heartened that the insurance companies





                                                          2031



                 have not come out in opposition to this

                 legislation, and I think that bodes well for

                 other kinds of legislation that would follow

                 this model.

                            And so I am very much looking

                 forward to including these kinds of bills when

                 we look at other ailments and diseases,

                 including mental illness.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson was next, and then Senator

                 Smith.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.  If the sponsor would

                 yield to a question.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            You may proceed.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            I heard your answer on the actuary.

                            My problem, though, is the actuary

                 is that person that -- you know, the





                                                          2032



                 numbers-cruncher that makes a determination

                 about what the insurance is going to cost.

                            And do you not think by adding that

                 as language you create a loophole for the

                 insurance company to send an actuary to say to

                 us that the case in question would -- because

                 of the cost of cancer, that that would be a

                 good enough reason to deny, based upon the

                 financial impact to the insurance company?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could

                 comment on that.

                            If you took away actuarial

                 principles, that means they would have to

                 insure everybody on everything.

                            And I think there would be perhaps

                 a problem in terms of cost.

                            You could have a situation where if

                 I found out today that I had cancer and I went

                 in and sought insurance tomorrow, I think that

                 would cause a problem in terms of all who are

                 seeking insurance in the state.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Madam

                 President, through you, another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?





                                                          2033



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, I do.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Then,

                 Senator, then I was under the misimpression

                 that we really were trying to help everyone

                 who might fall into this category.  Because if

                 you -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could ask

                 you a question.  If I know -

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Let me

                 just finish what I'm saying.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Okay.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I know

                 we have to have some guidelines.  I know there

                 has to be some parameters that we use.

                            I'm just not clear that if we are

                 instructing the insurance companies not to

                 deny persons based upon all the other

                 parameters that you have developed here, why

                 actuary as the determination?  Why not another

                 principle?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    First of all -

                 well, again, we're just talking about based

                 solely on the basis of genetic testing.  That





                                                          2034



                 we're saying that they cannot deny this

                 insurance based solely on genetic testing.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Just a

                 final question, if the Senator will yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

                 don't think that my concern is that we don't

                 have some sound principle by which we make

                 determinations.  My question is why the

                 actuary, and -- because that, to me, is an

                 insurance loophole.  That's my assessment.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    It's in no way

                 determinant.  And it's replete through all of

                 our laws.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I said

                 final question, so I will honor that.  Thank

                 you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Would the sponsor yield for





                                                          2035



                 one question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you.

                            After listening to Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson, some questions came to mind.

                 And one of them was, are any particular ethnic

                 groups more predisposed to -- genetically

                 predisposed to cancer?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    We're dealing

                 with cancer.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Yes, I said

                 cancer.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I -- I have no

                 idea.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Okay.  If

                 not, are there any particular groups actually

                 at all that would be genetically predisposed,

                 any categories?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Again, I have no

                 idea.  All I'm saying is that they shouldn't





                                                          2036



                 be denied this insurance based solely on

                 genetic testing.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you.

                 Would the sponsor just yield for one more last

                 question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield for a final question?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you.

                            For those people who have

                 successfully battled cancer, statistically how

                 often do they suffer from a reoccurrence of

                 the disease?  Would you know that?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I have no idea.

                 I guess it depends on every individual.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Will the

                 Senator yield for one question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do

                 you -





                                                          2037



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    If the actuary

                 for whatever reason denies the person who's

                 seeking the insurance, is there a right of

                 appeal of their decision?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I mentioned that

                 earlier, that it's with the Superintendent of

                 Insurance.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Espada.

                            SENATOR ESPADA:    Madam President,

                 will the sponsor yield to one question,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR ESPADA:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            We've acknowledged that advances in

                 genetics and microbiology have allowed us to

                 detect the predisposition not only of cancers

                 but of other illnesses, other diseases -





                                                          2038



                 sickle cell anemia, diabetes, heart disease.

                 Would you in a future bill consider the

                 inclusion of these other -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I believe

                 Senator Duane asked a similar question,

                 perhaps not in the same words.

                            Right now I'm dealing with cancer.

                 There are members who have sponsored

                 legislation concerning all other types of

                 diseases.  And certainly if they are presented

                 to the floor, I would probably be supportive

                 of all of them.

                            SENATOR ESPADA:    We thank the

                 Senator.  Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Just -- would the sponsor

                 yield to just one question, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Dollinger.





                                                          2039



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President.  The overall effect of this

                 would be to require insurance companies to not

                 use genetic testing or genetic predispositions

                 as the sole basis for denying policy coverage.

                            My question is, would you

                 anticipate that the average cost of insurance

                 of this type, both life and non-cancelable

                 disability insurance, would increase in this

                 state as a result of their attempting to cover

                 their risk under this policy?

                            Would you anticipate overall

                 policies would increase?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.

                 Through you, Madam President, just briefly on

                 the bill.

                            I certainly share Senator Skelos's

                 interest and I think proper interest and goal

                 of eliminating the use of genetic testing as

                 the sole determinant of denying coverage for

                 either life policies or noncancelable

                 disabilities.

                            But I do believe that the

                 consequence of this bill will be to increase





                                                          2040



                 the cost of life insurance and noncancelable

                 disability, because the consequence of this

                 will be there will be fewer instances in which

                 they can use the tools of modern science to

                 detect predispositions and then rule certain

                 people out of the policy pool.  Such as we've

                 done with the smoking of cigarettes in life

                 insurance policies and in the calculation of

                 the cost of life insurance policies.

                            So I think this is a good bill, but

                 I think it -- at least from my experience in

                 looking at the insurance business and how

                 insurance pools work, I would suggest that it

                 will increase the cost of both of these

                 coverages generally across the state, even

                 though that increased cost will be justified

                 because we're going to be creating a policy

                 which protects people from the arbitrary use

                 of genetic testing.

                            I think it's a good idea, but I do

                 think it will have a result of an increase in

                 cost, and we ought to do it with that

                 understanding.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.





                                                          2041



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 100.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin,

                 to explain your vote.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    To explain my

                 vote.  Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    I stand to

                 commend Senator Skelos for this bill.  He's

                 introduced it before.  There's no reason it

                 shouldn't pass both houses.

                            It's taking the positive side of

                 genetic research, which can be so important in

                 today's scientific community, but taking away

                 the negative side, the negative side being the

                 improper or bad use of it by insurance

                 companies to deny coverage.

                            I commend him.  I hope it passes on

                 to additional areas and that we have some ways

                 to enforce it, police it, to make sure that we

                 can guarantee that insurance companies can't

                 use that information in any way that would

                 cause individuals to lose their insurance





                                                          2042



                 coverage.

                            And for that reason I vote in the

                 affirmative.  Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin,

                 you will be recorded as voting in the

                 affirmative.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson, did you

                 wish to be heard?  And then Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.  Just to explain my

                 vote.

                            I certainly too commend Senator

                 Skelos on his thoughtfulness in this area and

                 will have every intention of voting on the

                 bill.

                            I would just hope that he would

                 have considered deleting the language of

                 "sound actuarial principles" in its connection

                 not to people who already have cancer or who

                 know they have cancer but, rather, to those

                 with a predisposition.

                            So that's my only concern about

                 this bill.  And I do vote yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, you will





                                                          2043



                 be recorded as voting in the affirmative.

                            Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I also will be voting in the

                 affirmative.

                            I thought I'd give an answer, the

                 partial answer, the little piece of it that I

                 do know myself personally, to the question

                 that Miss -- Senator A. Smith raised.

                            Yes, there are predispositions to

                 certain types of cancer.

                            For example, Ashkenazy Jewish women

                 have a strong predisposition to breast cancer.

                 And unfortunately, I fit into the pattern and

                 did -- am a survivor.

                            But there are many other types of

                 cancer that are predisposed to particular

                 groups, so it does exist.

                            But this is a good bill.  I'm happy

                 to support it.  I'm glad I planted the seed in

                 Senator Skelos's mind.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    To explain my

                 vote.  Because I also intend voting for it.

                            Just thinking about it, I had a





                                                          2044



                 question in mind that I didn't ask you.  And I

                 hope that if this isn't the bill that passes

                 both houses, that we'll have another

                 opportunity to come back to it.

                            I'd like to know how the insurance

                 companies are going to get their hands on the

                 information about anyone's predisposition to

                 have this particular information available to

                 them.  And is it going to be mandated by the

                 insurance companies that before they give you

                 the insurance that they will require you to

                 take some kind of a test on it.

                            So keeping that in mind for a

                 future bill, I intend to vote yes on this

                 bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, to

                 explain your vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  To explain my vote.

                            I do feel that this is a good bill.

                 But I share the concerns that I raised before

                 about the phrase "unless action is based upon

                 sound actuarial principles."  I haven't

                 actually been -- my fears have not been

                 particularly calmed.  And of course my





                                                          2045



                 colleague Senator Hassell-Thompson really also

                 zoomed in on that.

                            I think I would feel better if the

                 insurance companies had opposed this

                 legislation.  It would make me feel that there

                 was more of a likelihood that the intent of

                 this bill would actually be met in practice.

                            I am going to vote for it.  I am

                 going to hope that it achieves the result that

                 the sponsor had intended for it to have.  If

                 that isn't the case, then I think we would

                 have to go and revisit it and try to tighten

                 up the language to make sure that people -

                 women are covered in the way that we intended.

                            And I will be voting yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You will be

                 recorded as voting in the affirmative,

                 Senator Duane.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.





                                                          2046



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if you would call up Calendar Number 166, by

                 Senator Kuhl.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 166.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 166, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2651, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 the terms of members of the Board of Regents.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    May we have

                 an explanation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Kuhl, an

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  I didn't hear who requested the

                 explanation.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I did.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer, Senator Kuhl.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill is singular in purpose.

                 It would simply stagger the terms of the Board

                 of Regents.

                            There are currently 16 members of





                                                          2047



                 the Board of Regents.  And last year there

                 were six appointments.  This year there are

                 four appointments.

                            So as you can see -- and they serve

                 five-year terms -- that there seems to be an

                 unbalanced selection which can lead to a great

                 turnover as far as experience goes.

                            So the attempt is to try to stagger

                 the terms so that there's continuity of the

                 existence of institutional knowledge that the

                 Board of Regents might acquire should that

                 happen.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I think I'm

                 supportive of this; I just have to ask some

                 questions.  Through you, if the sponsor would

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, I'd be happy

                 to.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    How would





                                                          2048



                 this work, Senator Kuhl?  In each of the next

                 five years there would be two or three people

                 or three seats chosen to run in that year?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    The easiest way

                 perhaps to explain this, Senator Oppenheimer,

                 is that -- use last year, the year 2000, as an

                 example.

                            There are 16 Regents on the Board

                 of Regents, as you know.  There are 12 various

                 judicial districts across the state.  Four are

                 elected from at-large status.

                            In the year 2000, there were six

                 seats that became vacant.  This year there are

                 four seats that became vacant.  Next year, the

                 year 2002, three seats will be up for

                 election.  In the year 2004, three seats will

                 be up for election.  And then we're back to

                 the year 2005, when there will be again six

                 seats up for election.

                            So you see a disproportionate

                 number of Regents will be coming up for

                 election or reelection, whatever happens to be

                 the circumstances, in numbers of years.

                            This law was changed back in the

                 year 1993 when we reduced the size of the





                                                          2049



                 board from 17 members to 16 members.  However,

                 the previous experience of having staggered

                 terms was not continued forward.

                            I think -- and it's -- I think it's

                 a wise idea, and obviously this chamber did,

                 because we supported this bill 60 to nothing

                 last year.  The committee voted 18 to nothing

                 to advance the proposal to the floor.  It

                 seems to be an acceptable idea.

                            And the simple allocation would be

                 at the next time -- and this would not

                 occur -- if we had passed this this year, the

                 next time that we have more than four Regents

                 elected would be the year 2005.  And what

                 happens is on that occasion, if there are more

                 than four, then the successive -- or the terms

                 for which they are elected are based on

                 seniority.

                            So if all of the current members

                 decided to run for reelection, all six, what

                 would happen is that we've got to go back and

                 determine when they first became a Regent, and

                 then the first one would get the five-year

                 term, the second would get a five-year, the

                 third would get a five-year, the fourth would





                                                          2050



                 get a five-year, the next one would get a

                 four-year, and the next one would get a

                 three-year.

                            Thereby, we would have staggered

                 the terms so that there would be no more than

                 four Regents elected at any one year

                 subsequent thereto.

                            None of the existing Regents would

                 have their term shortened.  This would be

                 prospectively for newly elected Regents.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Through

                 you, Madam President, if the Senator would

                 yield again.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?  Senator Kuhl, will you yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    You said

                 for newly elected.  But if in that example

                 where you had five coming back for

                 reappointment, then -

                            SENATOR KUHL:    That is currently

                 the situation.  We don't know -- we don't know





                                                          2051



                 what the situation will be in the year 2005

                 when there are then currently six positions

                 that have their term ended.

                            We don't know how many of those six

                 Regents will in fact have continued to full

                 completion of their terms.  We don't know

                 whether or not any of them will seek

                 reelection or reappointment.

                            And so what the bill does is simply

                 says that there will not be more than four

                 Regents elected at any one time, but there is

                 a staggering system set up from the first time

                 that that happens so that the terms are

                 staggered, once and only once.

                            So that subsequent thereto, there

                 will only be four Regents at any one time

                 elected in any one year.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I got it.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I knew there was a

                 reason.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Now,

                 through you, Madam President, if the Senator

                 will continue to yield.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to

                 yield, Madam President.





                                                          2052



                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    What would

                 happen, Senator, in the instance of an

                 unexpired term where someone comes in, we

                 would elect someone to take the unexpired

                 term, would -- wait, I'm figuring this out.

                 That would then be, unless it's a term that

                 ended up at 2005, it would just be the normal

                 continuation of that term?  For an unexpired

                 term where someone has stepped down.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Unexpired terms

                 really don't enter into what we're attempting

                 to do here.  We're attempting to stagger the

                 terms for the elected Regents as they come up

                 in each year.

                            And currently, in the year 2000,

                 and then again in the year 2005, there will be

                 six vacancies.  In the year 2001, there are

                 four vacancies.  That will again happen in the

                 year 2006.

                            So unless you stagger the terms,

                 every five years there will be six Regents up

                 for -- or six vacancies to be filled either

                 with existing Regents who are seeking





                                                          2053



                 reappointment, or the next year there will be

                 five.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    So -

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Excuse me, four.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'm

                 confusing you.

                            To you, again, if you'll -

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    How long,

                 then, Senator Kuhl, would this transition

                 take?  Would it take six years for the

                 transition to complete itself and then

                 everybody would be on the same term?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    No, actually it

                 only takes one year.  And that would be in the

                 next election when there are six

                 representatives.

                            Keep in mind, you have five-year

                 terms.  Okay?  This last year -- and you're

                 running in a five-year cycle.  This last year

                 we had six members who were elected.  This





                                                          2054



                 year we had four.  Next year, there's three.

                 The following year, there's three.  Then the

                 next year, there's six.  Then there's four.

                 Then there's three.  Then there's three.

                            So that the next time, the next

                 period, which would be 2005, when there are

                 six up for election, we change those six to

                 read only four in that year, and then

                 thereinafter there will be four, four, and

                 four.  So you'll have successive terms of only

                 four Regents every four years.

                            And it's solely meant -- the only

                 purpose is to try to keep as much knowledge on

                 the board as you possibly can so that there's

                 not maximum turnover and so that you're not

                 really facing learning all over again.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Senator Kuhl.  And on the bill, please.

                            I think this is an excellent bill.

                 This is something that's needed.  I was just

                 trying to figure out how long it would take

                 before we would be on a circuit where there

                 would be four Regents elected every year.  And

                 the answer to that would be in 2006, we would

                 have everybody on the Board of Regents in -





                                                          2055



                 four elected each year.

                            So I thank Senator Kuhl.  That was

                 what I was trying to work through.  And I

                 really think it's essential, because

                 otherwise -- I think this bill is essential,

                 because otherwise you're left with people in a

                 very responsible position who are really

                 determining the policy and essentially the

                 quality of education in our state.  And if

                 many of them have turned over, like happened

                 last year, when we had six people coming

                 before us -- and I'll tell you, the amount of

                 interviewing was interminable, and some of you

                 were sitting there with us.  I mean, it did go

                 on and on.

                            And I think with that kind of

                 responsibility, we simply can't have a large

                 turnover where people are new and don't know

                 what they're dealing with.

                            And I think this is a very

                 responsible bill, and I'm happy to support it.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman

                 is next.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    I defer to

                 Senator Stavisky.





                                                          2056



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you.

                            If Senator Kuhl will yield for a

                 question.  A question, one question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator -

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you.

                            Through you, Madam President, I

                 commend Senator Kuhl for the clarity of his

                 presentation, because I also understood it

                 very clearly this time around.

                            One question.  Through you, Madam

                 President, do you foresee any other agencies

                 participating in this staggered term?  As an

                 example, today we had five members of the

                 Medical Advisory Committee on our calendar

                 today.  Do you foresee any changes in other

                 appointments to boards or commissions?  Since

                 if this is such a good idea for the Regents,

                 perhaps it's a good idea for the Medical

                 Advisory Committee?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, Senator, in

                 response to your question, there may be some





                                                          2057



                 other members of this house who chair

                 committees that in fact oversee other

                 appointments.

                            This whole issue of reconfiguration

                 of the Board of Regents has been a subject of

                 concern.  As a matter of fact, this house is

                 involved in a lawsuit against the Regents.

                            So from my perspective, this is an

                 oversight that wasn't taken care of back in

                 1993, when in fact we reduced the number of

                 members.  And I think it's something that's

                 long overdue, because we saw last year a

                 tremendous turnover.  And Senator Oppenheimer

                 was absolutely right.  It was an interminable

                 display in patience and persistence and

                 certainly exhausting to all of us who went

                 through the multitude of people who were

                 interested in applying for the Regents.

                            And I think that, number one, from

                 an efficiency standpoint of going through an

                 appointment, this house and the other house

                 would benefit from only having four vacancies

                 come up a year, in successive years.

                            And certainly the other part of

                 this is that you have a continuity in the





                                                          2058



                 institution.  There's such an important role

                 that the Board of Regents play in establishing

                 a curriculum for our young people in this

                 state that it's essential that there's some

                 continuity.  And when you have a turnover of

                 six people -- and you could have the

                 chancellor of the Board of Regents, you could

                 have the vice chancellor, you've got several

                 people who head up significant committee

                 slots -- all of a sudden, just because it's

                 the end of their term, they've had enough and

                 leave, and you've lost a great deal of the

                 institution.

                            So I'm only concentrating on this

                 particular aspect.  I haven't looked at

                 anything farther.  My realm of responsibility

                 is in the education arena, as the chairman of

                 that committee.  And so I can't answer your

                 question other than to say that there may be

                 some other members who have some thoughts

                 along the same line.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman.





                                                          2059



                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Through you,

                 Madam President, I have a question, if Senator

                 Kuhl would accept it.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Absolutely.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Thank you.

                            First, I'd like to say I think it's

                 an excellent bill.  I voted for it last year;

                 I'll vote for it this year.  In fact, I

                 strongly believe in staggered terms.  I'm

                 looking forward to the day when the New York

                 State Senate, like the U.S. Senate, will have

                 six-year terms, staggered, one-third,

                 one-third, one-third.

                            Short of that, though, I have a

                 question dealing with the staggering.  If a

                 U.S. Senator unfortunately dies in office or

                 is incapacitated and resigns, there is a

                 special election.  But you might have one year

                 where ten members of the Regents leave, or

                 eight members of the Regents leave.  Unusual,

                 but it's possible, because of illness, death,

                 as well as the term expiring.  So you don't

                 have an exact staggered figure unless you work





                                                          2060



                 around that.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, yes, you do,

                 Senator, because when there is a vacancy, we

                 fill for the unexpired term of the vacancy.

                 So once you make this change, there are only

                 four regular terms that terminate every five

                 years.  And so what you do is you'd fill the

                 vacancies.

                            And you might have four -- if this

                 bill were enacted into law, signed by the

                 Governor -- certainly passed by the other

                 house, signed by the Governor and becomes law,

                 then you'll only have four five-year terms

                 that end every year.  But you might have a

                 couple of vacancies where you had four more

                 who had three years left in their term, or one

                 more who had or two more who had two or one.

                            So I don't see that that presents a

                 problem with a massive retirement.  There are

                 some members in this chamber who would like to

                 see massive retirements.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Madam

                 President, through you, one more question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Go ahead, Senator





                                                          2061



                 Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    I'm happy you

                 realize that some members would not want to

                 see that.

                            But what you're saying basically -

                 tell me if I'm wrong -- is if you do have

                 these retirements, then just as for a U.S.

                 Senator where there will be a special election

                 called in a state, what we would do is have a

                 special selection for that person who retires,

                 so that at the appointed time of reappointment

                 he will or she will come within the staggered

                 four people each.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    That's correct.

                 And that is the current practice.  We talked

                 about six terms ending last year, if you

                 recall.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I know your memory

                 is very, very acute this way.  We actually did

                 seven elections last year -

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    That's true.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    -- because the

                 current chancellor of the City Board of

                 Education, Harold Levy, decided to take that





                                                          2062



                 position and resign his position.  So we had

                 to fill that vacancy for the balance of his

                 term and then fill six vacancies.

                            So this is meant to really limit

                 that number of regular term endings to an

                 average and consistent number, four places

                 every four years.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    On the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            I strongly support it, as I did

                 last year.  I think it's an excellent example

                 of nonpartisanship in the arena of policy.

                            Thank you kindly.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President, if the sponsor would yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  I'm

                 wondering if the sponsor would allow me to go

                 on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    If you wish to





                                                          2063



                 speak on the bill, Senator, you may proceed.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    No, Madam

                 President, I'm asking if the sponsor would let

                 me go on the bill.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    That's certainly

                 something we can discuss, but I'm not prepared

                 to respond to that right now.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Do you have a

                 question relevant to the bill itself, the

                 substance of the bill, Senator?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    On the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            I was very compelled earlier today

                 when we had a joint meeting of both houses in

                 the Assembly, and I listened very intently to

                 the sponsor as he discussed bipartisanship and

                 his desire for bipartisanship among all of us

                 here in the Legislature.  And I'm very much

                 looking forward to all of us rekindling that

                 spirit of bipartisanship as it was directly

                 related to the issue of the Regents.

                            And I will be voting for this bill,

                 and I'm hoping that everyone will be able to

                 show their support for this bill.

                            Thank you, Madam President.





                                                          2064



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Will the sponsor yield for one

                 brief question, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Kuhl?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'll be happy to.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I believe I understand what this

                 legislation does.  And the fact that we have

                 passed this unanimously in the last few years

                 does not obviate the need for asking

                 questions, particularly when the language is

                 unclear, based on the explanation that we've

                 heard.

                            So I truly am unclear on this, and

                 I just would like a clarification before I

                 vote in favor of this.  If Senator Kuhl would

                 please tell us, where on line 13 it indicates

                 that "the terms of such Regents so affected

                 shall be reduced by one or more years, based

                 upon the order of their election," what that

                 means.





                                                          2065



                            SENATOR KUHL:    To explain,

                 Senator, that simply means that the term,

                 whether or not it's reduced to four years or

                 three years, will be based on seniority.

                            And I think I gave an example, and

                 I explained this to you, if you may remember.

                 I know that you're younger and your memory is

                 much more acute than mine, simply because you

                 haven't reached the age of 40.  So I would

                 have expected you to remember our conversation

                 last year.

                            But I know for the benefit of

                 Senators to the left of you and to the front

                 of you, they haven't heard this, and so I'm

                 more than happy to try to explain it again.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Would you?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    But it's based

                 simply on seniority.

                            That's so that if you had somebody

                 who was, say, a Regent who was elected in 1990

                 and chose to run again, and somebody who was

                 up for reelection and it happened to be the

                 year of the decrease of the longevity of their

                 terms, there were six members up for election

                 and somebody else had been selected, say, in





                                                          2066



                 1990, two or three, well, then, by some method

                 of chance the -- well, I shouldn't say method

                 of chance -- the older person would get the

                 longer term, the shorter-term-of-service

                 person would get the shorter term.

                            That's simply what that language

                 means.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 would the sponsor continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Kuhl,

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'll be happy to

                 yield for some other questions.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Senator Kuhl, I

                 actually do not remember the specific

                 conversation that we had last year.

                            But I would suggest to you that my

                 reading of the English language, and the

                 language contained in this bill, does not jibe

                 with the explanation that you've just

                 provided, though the explanation that you just

                 provided is one that is perfectly logical.

                 And worded in this bill the way you just





                                                          2067



                 explained it, I think you would have

                 eliminated all the confusion.

                            That's, Senator, where it says

                 "based upon the order of their election," that

                 doesn't clarify for me the way you just

                 explained the order in which the terms are

                 going to be staggered.

                            So my question is, don't you agree?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator, let me

                 just simply say to you that I found in the

                 course of my service here that people coming

                 from different parts of the state certainly

                 have different environmental backgrounds and

                 certain heredities, and they have a different

                 understanding of the usage of the English

                 language.  I find that's the case here today.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.  On

                 the bill, Madam President.  Madam President,

                 on the bill.

                            Thank you.  Madam President, I

                 fully appreciate Senator Kuhl and his comments

                 here today, particularly his concession that

                 his memory is not as good as mine, which is

                 why it surprised him that he didn't understand

                 why I couldn't understand his bill.





                                                          2068



                            Having said that, I stand by my

                 ability to read the English language and my

                 statement before that this language does not

                 fully explain the way the terms are supposed

                 to be staggered, though that explanation is a

                 perfectly worthy explanation.  And I believe

                 that that's why my very learned colleagues on

                 this side of the aisle have asked questions

                 pertaining to how the staggering should be

                 done.

                            Having said that, I will accept

                 Senator Kuhl's translation of the language of

                 the bill, and its intention, because I do

                 think it's a good idea.  And I should like to

                 point out that in this year of municipal term

                 limits in New York City, that the raison

                 d'etre for this bill is the exact reason why

                 you should not have a complete transition of

                 institutional knowledge and power, be it on a

                 Board of Regents or in a elected New York City

                 Council or in any legislature.  It's a real

                 problem.

                            So notwithstanding our

                 discrepancies and disagreements with the

                 phraseology of this bill, I do think the





                                                          2069



                 intention is good and so I will be supporting

                 the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  Would Senator Hevesi yield to a

                 question.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    I would be happy

                 to yield, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Through you,

                 Madam President.  You've outlined some

                 possible disagreements and interpretations to

                 the bill.

                            Senator Hevesi, would you have any

                 language that might be able to correct that

                 situation and make the bill more easily be

                 readable to all citizens of the state of

                 New York, west, east, north and south?

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    The answer,

                 Senator, is yes.  I would simply remove the

                 phrase "based upon the order of their

                 election" and substitute it with the process

                 that Senator Kuhl outlined by which he intends

                 for the terms of the Regents to be staggered





                                                          2070



                 in order to prevent there from being any more

                 than six Regents appointed in any given year.

                            And I'd be happy to draft such

                 legislation if Senator Kuhl will pull this

                 bill.  And while I'm on this topic, I would be

                 happy to include Senator Duane as a cosponsor

                 of that legislation, since he obviously feels

                 passionate enough to want his name associated

                 with such a positive change.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you very,

                 very much, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Kuhl would yield for two

                 questions.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Kuhl, do

                 you yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Will you yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to

                 yield to my good friend Senator Paterson.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,





                                                          2071



                 Senator.  Just a couple of things I'd like you

                 to clear up for me.

                            Pursuant to the conversation you

                 had with Senator Hevesi, there was something

                 that I found confusing.  Perhaps you can clear

                 it up for me.  Today we elected four Regents.

                 Does the one who was actually elected first

                 have seniority over the one who was elected

                 second?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator Paterson,

                 it would be a moot question at this point,

                 because none of them will be in a position

                 where they'll have to have their term

                 shortened.  There were only four of them

                 elected, and so they don't fall into the

                 category of having to have staggered terms.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Right.  Madam

                 President, if the Senator would continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Kuhl, do

                 you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Certainly, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.





                                                          2072



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I was just

                 using that as an example, Madam President,

                 because I was just trying to understand

                 whether the use of the word "order" related to

                 seniority or if "order" meant the order of

                 seniority by year.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, Senator, if

                 you had used the example of should all six

                 members who were appointed last year or

                 elected last year seek reelection in the year

                 2005, and should there be more than four who

                 were selected in the same year, then what I

                 would have said to you is if there were five

                 seeking four spots, four complete five-year

                 terms, then if there were -- there we would

                 use a selection method of chance to decide

                 which in fact -- who had seniority over the

                 other.

                            So seniority, under the proposal

                 here, is a determination by year, not by the

                 minute within which the same day that there is

                 election.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay.  Thank

                 you, Senator.  I didn't get that, as I guess

                 Senator Hevesi didn't either.





                                                          2073



                            But a final question unrelated to

                 this question.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'll continue to

                 yield, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if we have five-year terms and we

                 are electing four members to the Board of

                 Regents every year, that would accommodate 20

                 seats.  So is it not correct that in one of

                 these years, if we elect four every other

                 year, we would only be electing one member to

                 the Board of Regents?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    No, what we're

                 saying is there's a realignment to make sure

                 that the existing 16 are there, sitting, but

                 no more than four in any one year.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.





                                                          2074



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could call up Calendar Number 220.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 220.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 220, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 3456, an

                 act to amend Chapters 50, 53, and 55 of the

                 Laws of 2000.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, there is,

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The motion is to

                 accept the message of necessity.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The message is





                                                          2075



                 accepted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Last section,

                 please.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            The bill is now before the house.

                 Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, this is a

                 deficiency bill, and it would increase the

                 2000-2001 appropriations for the following.

                 It would provide appropriation for the

                 Fiduciary Fund increase of $3,159,600 for the

                 Retirement Systems' administrative costs.  It

                 also would provide an appropriation for an

                 Internal Service Fund increase of $420,000 for

                 the investments and cash management program,

                 also for the same system.

                            It would also charge for the

                 general state charges the General Fund

                 increase of $23.5 million.  And this is for an

                 assessment imposed on the workmen's

                 compensation insurance carriers, and it would





                                                          2076



                 be repaid.  And this is pursuant to a court

                 order.

                            Also, it would provide an

                 appropriation for the Special Revenue Fund

                 increase of $96.8 million for the State

                 University Hospital income reimbursement

                 account.

                            And, finally, it would provide an

                 appropriation to the General Fund, an increase

                 of $19.6 million.  And this is for the

                 extraordinary costs for the winter we've had

                 here in the state and the ice and snow

                 removal.

                            I would point out that the

                 appropriation for the Retirement Systems and

                 also for the hospital account are just

                 appropriations of those accounts.  But that is

                 necessary, the appropriations are necessary to

                 have the money available.  And the other two

                 appropriations are of course charged to the

                 state.

                            I might add this is a very, very,

                 very reasonable deficiency bill.  And having

                 been here for a number of years, I would even

                 hasten to add that this is the smallest





                                                          2077



                 appropriation, deficiency appropriation that I

                 have seen come before this august body.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Would the

                 Senator yield for a couple of questions.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Senator, on

                 the insurance part of this, the workers' comp

                 part of this deficiency piece, I know that

                 it's a court decision and that the money goes

                 back, because they took money from their

                 reserve.  And when a reserve goes down, the

                 people that are being insured have to pay to

                 get the reserve back up.

                            Is any of this money that's going

                 back to the insurers going to then pass back

                 to the people that are paying these high

                 workers' comp coverage costs?  Or is it just

                 going to stay with the insurers?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    I think your





                                                          2078



                 question, which is perceptive, and I think an

                 appropriate question, I think it even suggests

                 the answer.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, if the Senator would continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            You may proceed, Senator.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Since it

                 gives the answer, would you mind sharing that

                 answer with me?

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    I would

                 suggest that, as you were saying would this

                 accrue to the people being covered, the answer

                 is in the affirmative.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    If the

                 Senator would continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, do you

                 yield?

                            You may proceed, Senator.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I know that

                 you're telling me that, and I'm looking

                 through the paperwork on this, and I know that





                                                          2079



                 the money goes back to the insurers.

                            But I don't know if it goes back to

                 the people that you say it does.  So I'll

                 leave it at that.  It's still kind of

                 peculiar, because I'm not sure that it does

                 actually -- is it -- if it in fact will reduce

                 any coverage.

                            It's my understanding in talking to

                 some people previous to this, and that's why I

                 asked the question, was that it will just stay

                 with the insurance companies that are

                 providing the coverage and won't provide any

                 relief to the people that are paying the

                 premiums.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Well, let

                 me -- this is sort of a broad stroke with a

                 conceptual brush.

                            Obviously, as you suggested, if the

                 reserves are strengthened and the insurance

                 companies are strengthened and the funds are

                 made available to the insurance companies,

                 therefore the actuaries, the actuaries will

                 find it necessary to take that into

                 consideration.  Ergo, you would find the rates

                 reflecting the actuaries' research.





                                                          2080



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  Now I got that part of it.  I

                 understand that in the future, the rates

                 should be lower as a result of this money

                 going back to the insurers.  And that I

                 understand.

                            So then it does stay with the

                 insurance companies.  But by being in the -

                 should provide more in their reserve, and

                 therefore lower the rates in the future years.

                 So that would be good for the businesses that

                 are again crying out that the workers' comp

                 coverage still is so high and it's one of

                 their problems with doing business in our

                 state, and hopefully that this will be another

                 step in the direction of helping New York be a

                 better state to do business in.

                            Now, on the other part of this, on

                 the hospital part, this money -- and I know

                 you explained this in committee, but a lot of

                 the people in the room, particularly on my

                 side, aren't on Finance.  And I think it would

                 help us all -- and if the Senator would

                 continue to yield, now that we switched Madam

                 Presidents, but still being a Madam





                                                          2081



                 President -- if the Senator would continue to

                 yield, I'll have another question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Certainly.

                 Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Senator, I

                 know in your brief description you mentioned

                 that the money is there, it's money that the

                 hospitals have collected.  But in order for

                 them to get that money -- or use that money,

                 rather, we have to appropriate that money.  Is

                 that correct?  And if so, could you give a

                 brief description of how that works for the

                 members on my side that weren't there to hear

                 that brief description that you gave in

                 Finance?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Well, I was

                 complimented on that dissertation today in

                 committee.  I just hope I can do as well

                 again.

                            Actually, of course, this is a

                 fund, and it's a fund which is collected by





                                                          2082



                 the hospitals.  As we all know, the hospitals

                 are a great part of our State University

                 system and a great part of the hospital fund

                 complex here in the state of New York.

                            Now, the hospitals will be able to

                 spend additional revenues generated from

                 higher patient volume to cover costs incurred

                 by these three SUNY hospitals.  We all know it

                 is very, very difficult to operate a hospital.

                 And with the larger volume, they've been able

                 to collect additional money.  We're now making

                 it possible for them to spend that on the

                 hospitals.  But in order to spend it on the

                 hospitals, we have to appropriate it.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, if the Senator would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Senator,

                 would any of this money -- and I understand

                 that explanation.  I think you did it as well





                                                          2083



                 as you did it in committee today, and I have

                 to compliment you again.  And then I know

                 someone else complimented you earlier.

                            But would any of this money, since

                 there is an increased patient load and

                 obviously more money, would any of this money

                 be used to lower the debt that they have?

                 Like -- because, you know, the hospitals, the

                 SUNY hospitals have about $116.2 million in a

                 deficit that the -- that someday we'll have to

                 address.  And I know that there's an increase

                 in patient load, but I don't think it was that

                 big.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    I have -- of

                 course, as I said, I hate to keep mentioning

                 this, but -- for some people, this is good;

                 for others, it may not be.  But I have been

                 reviewing budgets now and have been here each

                 year with a budget.  And I can remember 36

                 years ago, the hospitals were a very, very

                 severe issue when it came to operating them

                 and when it came to keeping them open.  And we

                 all want to do that.  They're teaching

                 hospitals.  They're excellent hospitals.

                            Now, no one would rather -- no two





                                                          2084



                 people would rather take care of debt than you

                 and me.  All you have to do is look at the

                 areas we come from.  On the other hand, we

                 want to make sure that we keep the hospitals

                 operating.  And therefore, we're doing our

                 best to provide these funds to keep them

                 operating.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  Briefly, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stachowski, on the bill.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I happen to

                 agree with Senator Stafford as far as the

                 deficiency budget bill, this is a rather small

                 one as compared to other years.  The three

                 areas covered are pretty well defined.  The

                 hospitals have to have an appropriation to use

                 the money that they collected in patient care.

                 The obvious snow and ice removal that the

                 bills that we have this year, for even -

                 you've just got to look out a window

                 currently, and obviously not the painted ones,

                 but ones you can see out of, and you'd see

                 that we still have snow and ice, and that

                 expense has been a little greater than usual





                                                          2085



                 this year.  And this insurance piece, the

                 workers' comp piece, is a result of a court

                 case.

                            So I think that Senator Stafford

                 was right in saying that it's a small

                 deficiency package.  I have to agree with him

                 on the hospitals, that we have to keep them

                 open.  And in particular, I know in his area a

                 big concern is to make sure that Syracuse

                 stays open, because sometimes people from his

                 and Senator Wright's district might be -- if

                 they get hurt in his area and the local

                 hospital treats them, they might not have the

                 capability, if it's of a serious nature, and

                 they might have to be sent to Syracuse

                 Medical.

                            And I know the same goes for

                 Senator Seward's district and probably some of

                 Senator Meier's district, because those

                 hospitals are a little bit smaller and these

                 teaching hospitals not only teach but they

                 provide some of the more extensive services

                 for hospitals that are smaller and may not

                 have all those services available.

                            So I don't disagree with any of





                                                          2086



                 that.  And I just think that we should be

                 passing this and taking care of these bills

                 and doing what we can to make sure that the

                 SUNY hospital system stays open.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Through you,

                 Madam President, would Senator Stafford yield

                 for a few questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford, do you yield for a few questions?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    May we please

                 lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Lay it

                 aside for the day?

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside for the day.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there being no further business at this time,

                 I move we adjourn until Wednesday, March 14th,

                 at 11 a.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On





                                                          2087



                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Wednesday, March 14th, at 11:00.

                            Thank you.

                            (Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)