Regular Session - May 9, 2001

                                                              6801



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                                May 9, 2001

                                11:15 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          6802



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 please come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    In the absence of

                 clergy, may we each bow our heads in a moment

                 of silence, please.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Tuesday, May 8th, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, May 7,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.





                                                          6803



                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Skelos, we have

                 substitutions.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 I believe there are some substitutions at the

                 desk.  If we could make them.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 5,

                 Senator Fuschillo moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Consumer Protection, Assembly

                 Bill Number 5227 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 4757, First

                 Report Calendar 750.

                            On page 6, Senator Rath moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Local

                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 2130A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 1455A, First Report Calendar 755.





                                                          6804



                            On page 6, Senator Volker moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Local

                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 2397 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 1526, First Report Calendar 756.

                            On page 9, Senator Lack moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7699 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3751,

                 First Report Calendar 782.

                            On page 9, Senator Lack moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7925 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4409,

                 First Report Calendar 783.

                            On page 10, Senator Hannon moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Health,

                 Assembly Bill Number 1644 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3341,

                 First Report Calendar 792.

                            On page 14, Senator Larkin moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Codes,

                 Assembly Bill Number 1867 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3588,

                 First Report Calendar 840.





                                                          6805



                            On page 19, Senator Farley moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Civil Service

                 and Pensions, Assembly Bill Number 3489 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 2061, First Report Calendar 887.

                            On page 21, Senator Seward moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on

                 Investigations, Taxation and Government

                 Operations Assembly Bill Number 7033 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 3394, First Report Calendar 906.

                            On page 21, Senator Seward moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on

                 Investigations, Taxation and Government

                 Operations, Assembly Bill Number 7034A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 3395A, First Report Calendar 907.

                            On page 21, Senator Nozzolio moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Investigations, Taxation and Government

                 Operations, Assembly Bill Number 2916 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 3839, First Report Calendar 910.

                            And on page 21, Senator LaValle

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on





                                                          6806



                 Investigations, Taxation and Government

                 Operations, Assembly Bill Number 7435A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 3872A, First Report Calendar 911.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Substitutions

                 ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Transportation Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Transportation

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could

                 adopt the Resolution Calendar at this time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    All in favor of

                 adopting the Resolution Calendar signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Resolution





                                                          6807



                 Calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go to the noncontroversial

                 calendar at this time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 190, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1134, an

                 act to amend the Correction Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 441, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4401, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 445, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3239,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.





                                                          6808



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 539, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4146, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 540, by Senator Paterson, Senate Print Number

                 4764, an act to amend the Public Authorities

                 Law.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 597, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3683, an

                 act to amend Chapter 43 of the Laws of 1994.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.





                                                          6809



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 643, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1341, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 650, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3781, an

                 act to amend the Civil Rights Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 652, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4088, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law and the General

                 Obligations Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if you would lay that one aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Was that a

                 request to lay the bill aside, Senator

                 Paterson?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.





                                                          6810



                            THE PRESIDENT:    That's what I

                 assumed.

                            The bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 670, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4438, an

                 act naming the two hard-surface boat launching

                 ramps.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 674, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3525, an

                 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 675, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 4109, an

                 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.





                                                          6811



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 690, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4858, an

                 act to amend Chapter 906 of the Laws of 1984.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 691, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4859, an

                 act to amend Chapter 436 of the Laws of 1997.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could take up the controversial calendar

                 now.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read the controversial calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 190, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1134, an

                 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation

                 to making.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Alesi, an





                                                          6812



                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill would make it a Class A

                 misdemeanor for anyone who falsely reports

                 that someone is a registered sex offender

                 under Megan's Law.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would the sponsor please yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Will the sponsor

                 yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Alesi.

                            You may proceed, Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I was just wondering, when the

                 initial legislation passed in New York State

                 creating the sex offender registry, was there

                 not any protection built in to prevent a

                 situation from occurring such as the situation





                                                          6813



                 that this legislation seeks to prevent?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Senator, when the

                 initial legislation was passed, an awful lot

                 of work went into it and an awful lot of

                 negotiation with the Assembly was required.

                            And I think that it was through the

                 fine efforts and diligence and insight of

                 Senator Skelos that we have Megan's Law today.

                 And Megan's Law as it stands today does

                 include so many of the vitally important

                 aspects to protect people from sexual

                 predators.

                            As you know, as time goes on we

                 learn things from instances that happen after

                 the fact.  And in this case, an instance which

                 happened in New Jersey, incidentally, where

                 someone falsely reported someone as a sex

                 offender, gave impetus to the drafting of this

                 part of the legislation.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, would the sponsor

                 continue to yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Alesi,

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes, Madam





                                                          6814



                 President.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you,

                 Senator, for that explanation.  I fully

                 appreciate the legislation which created the

                 system in New York State.

                            And I think that your bill here

                 today is a good piece of legislation.  I was

                 simply trying to inquire as to why the

                 protections that we're providing today had not

                 been placed in the initial legislation.

                            But that being the case, I

                 understand that there was a case in New Jersey

                 that was the impetus for this bill.  Do we

                 know of any cases in New York State where a

                 similar situation occurred, or would this

                 legislation simply serve as a deterrent to

                 prevent anybody from falsely accusing somebody

                 of being on that registry?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Madam President, I have always held that if we

                 find a set of circumstances anywhere in the

                 world that would help us protect our

                 citizenry, we shouldn't necessarily wait for

                 it to happen in New York State.

                            And although I don't know whether





                                                          6815



                 any instances like this have happened since

                 then, I appreciate again the leadership that

                 was shown in drafting the original Megan's

                 Law, under Senator Skelos.  And I think that

                 New York State can continue to show a

                 leadership role by simply drafting this part

                 of the legislation that would enhance Megan's

                 Law.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, would the sponsor

                 continue to yield?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Alesi,

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    I'd be happy to,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            What year was the original Megan's

                 Law legislation passed in New York State?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Madam President, I would be happy to answer

                 questions on any aspect of the bill at hand.

                 However, this bill really isn't dealing with

                 the original Megan's Law as it stands.





                                                          6816



                            I believe it was drafted a few

                 years ago, however.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 would the sponsor yield for a final question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, will you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    I'd be happy to,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Senator, since I believe that your

                 bill is a good bill, I'm concerned that it has

                 not been signed into law in the past several

                 years, though it has unanimously passed this

                 house, both in 1999 and 2000.  That's why I

                 was asking the question as to when the

                 original Megan's Law was passed in this state,

                 not for any negative purpose.

                            So my question to you is, since

                 this is obviously a good idea, why isn't it

                 the law yet, though we have passed it

                 unanimously for several years in a row?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you,

                 Madam President, the New York State Assembly,





                                                          6817



                 which is loath to deal with criminal activity

                 in an effective and efficient way, has seen

                 fit not to address this issue.  And I think

                 that the New York State Assembly is shirking

                 its responsibility in protecting people from

                 false simulations and false allegations under

                 Megan's Law.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 on the bill, Senator.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I thank the sponsor for his

                 answer.

                            I support this legislation.  I've

                 voted for it for the past several years.  I'm

                 only troubled by two things.  One, the fact

                 that it was not included in the initial

                 legislation -- which is unfortunate, but we

                 can remedy that here today -- and the fact

                 that it hasn't passed the last two years in

                 the Assembly and been signed into law.

                            And I'm not sure whether the

                 sponsor's assessment, though well-intentioned,

                 is accurate.  I can think of no reason why the





                                                          6818



                 Assembly would not want to deter and penalize

                 individuals who would falsely report folks who

                 are on the sex offender registry.  And so if

                 there's some other purpose -- and I'm going to

                 reach out to the Assembly and see why they

                 haven't taken up this bill.

                            But myself and my colleagues have

                 brought to this floor on a number of occasions

                 this year the question or concern of why a

                 bill that's passed in this house has not

                 passed in the Assembly.  And, you know, I'm

                 loath to almost ask the question anymore,

                 because it seems that I'm creating an

                 invitation and my colleagues are creating an

                 invitation for shots to be taken at the

                 Assembly.

                            I can't see any reason why in this

                 particular instance the Assembly would not

                 want to do what this bill seeks to do.  So I'm

                 going to talk to them and find out why.

                            Having said that, this is a good

                 bill, and I commend the sponsor for bringing

                 this bill to us.  We don't want to in any way

                 create any doubts about the ability of Megan's

                 Law in New York State to do what it's designed





                                                          6819



                 to do, because I don't want that law to be

                 taken apart in the public's eye, because I

                 think it's a good law.

                            And if individuals are abusing that

                 law, as they have obviously done in New Jersey

                 and could do in New York State, by accusing

                 somebody of being on the registry when in fact

                 they're not on the registry, that's behavior

                 that's unacceptable, and we need to deter it.

                 That's what this legislation does.

                            And I can see absolutely no reason

                 why we wouldn't want to go ahead and make this

                 the law of the land.  I commend the sponsor, I

                 urge my colleagues to support it in both this

                 house and in the Assembly.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Madam President,

                 I appreciate the Senator's support, and I

                 appreciate his willingness to reach out to his

                 colleagues in the Assembly so that we can

                 effectively protect people from being falsely

                 identified under Megan's Law.

                            Thank you, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other





                                                          6820



                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 441, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4401, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to the employment of

                 retired persons.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This bill would amend Section 212

                 of the Retirement and Social Security Law to

                 increase the amount that public retirees can

                 earn in positions of public service without





                                                          6821



                 diminution of retirement benefits, from

                 $18,500 to $20,000 annually.

                            This section of the law has been

                 annually amended since 1996 to adjust this

                 income figure so as to reflect inflation and

                 rising costs of living.  The schedule of

                 increases has been reflective of the

                 limitation in scheduled amounts under federal

                 law.

                            The fiscal note on this bill

                 indicates a negligible amount of additional

                 annual cost to the state and local retirement

                 systems.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Leibell would yield for

                 a question.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell,

                 will you yield?

                            You may proceed, Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, as

                 you stated, this policy that we have increased

                 the retirees' amount was commenced in 1996.

                 And I notice that the first three years, we





                                                          6822



                 commenced it at a rate of $1,000, and -

                 actually, the first four years, and the last

                 two, we would have increased it for $1,500.

                 This is above the CPI, which is fine with me.

                            But I guess my question to you is,

                 how do we calculate what the increase should

                 be?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    We have in the

                 past mirrored the federal schedule, which was

                 Social Security.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, just to clarify, one further

                 question.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell,

                 do you yield?

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            So, Senator, in other words, we

                 have waited until we saw what the federal

                 increase was, and have then just reflected it?

                 So in other words, it would -





                                                          6823



                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes,

                 historically we have waited for their schedule

                 to be released, and then we have followed it.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    All right,

                 Madam President.  Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 445, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3239,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 539, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4146, an





                                                          6824



                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to the use of video conferencing.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            The bill would amend the Public

                 Authorities Law to allow videoconferencing of

                 monthly meetings which are required in the

                 conduct of the business.  And for the purpose

                 of establishing a quorum, you have to have at

                 least four in attendance.  This would allow

                 teleconferencing to constitute attendance at

                 the meeting, because the technological

                 arrangements make it possible.

                            Incidentally, it's -- they are

                 installing the facility, in any event, in

                 their new headquarters in New York.  It would

                 make it available immediately if we authorized

                 the teleconferencing of meetings, with the

                 same force and effect as if they were there.

                            Naturally, it's desirable to have

                 them in attendance for the circumstances





                                                          6825



                 before and after a meeting, but this would

                 erase an obstacle and a difficulty that I

                 don't think we need.  There's no profit to

                 continuing the present system when we give a

                 definite ear to the technological advantages

                 which only widen the opportunity for

                 consistent participation in these proceedings.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, will the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi

                 yields.

                            You may proceed, Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator Marchi,

                 I notice we've passed this legislation on

                 three previous occasions.  Is there any reason

                 that the Assembly did not take it up?  Have

                 they shared their reasons with you why they

                 haven't taken it up in the other house?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, I should

                 have been able to give you a response on that.

                 It is a department bill, so I'm sure that the





                                                          6826



                 bill has been introduced and is available to

                 them for action.  But I would hope that

                 passage would -- and I'll address that issue

                 specifically, and I'll check with my

                 cosponsor.

                            But it is a department bill.  And

                 I'm sure that under the circumstances it would

                 be unusual if we didn't have one there.  So I

                 would hope that our action here today will

                 spur them to action down the line.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    If the Senator

                 will continue to yield for another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi,

                 will you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

                            You may proceed, Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator Marchi,

                 do you have any idea about the cost of the

                 video equipment?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, they are

                 installing those facilities in any event,

                 because of the available of teleconferencing

                 directly.  And supplying a visual element is

                 advantageous for other purposes; you don't





                                                          6827



                 have to have a formal meeting.  So it's going

                 in.  We're spending that money to give them

                 the capability of doing it.

                            The question is will we have the

                 law follow the suggestion that is broadly

                 implicit in the advance that has been made,

                 and I think with us an imperative that we

                 approve it.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 540, by Senator Paterson, Senate Print 4764,

                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in





                                                          6828



                 relation to authorizing.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson,

                 an explanation has been requested by several

                 members.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, would you please tell my colleagues

                 to get in line.

                            I'd like to lay this aside for the

                 day, please.

                            (Vocal disappointment.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Maybe they can

                 spend the weekend thinking up these questions

                 they want to ask me.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 597, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3683, an

                 act to amend Chapter 43 of the Laws of 1994.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 an explanation has been requested.





                                                          6829



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    While we wait

                 for Senator Larkin, I'd like to announce a

                 meeting of the Higher Education Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Higher Education

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Larkin, an explanation has

                 been requested by Senator Duane, I believe.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Senator.

                 This bill was requested by the Town of Esopus.

                            I can give you a long litany of the

                 bill, but in basic common sense, when the

                 board at the library had asked for this last

                 year, they gave us suggested dates of what

                 they wanted in the bill.  After a clear

                 explanation to them, they still wanted it in

                 that manner.

                            Since that time, Mr. Kirwan, the

                 Assemblyman, and I have met with them.  And

                 basically they wanted the vote on the first of

                 June.  And everybody would be terminated, so

                 then the new board wouldn't be able to take

                 effect until the following June.

                            And while there's a lot of changes,





                                                          6830



                 little things in it, it all boils down to

                 having the vote on the first of June and the

                 board to take office on the 15th of June.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  If the sponsor would yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 with a question, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    The original

                 legislation, as I understand it, was passed in

                 2000.  Did I understand the sponsor to say

                 that the Legislature was aware of the gaps

                 that were going to happen, but the local

                 board -

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    We were going by

                 what they submitted to us.  It's their

                 library, it's their board of trustees elected

                 by the people of the town of Lloyd.  And that

                 is the information that they presented to us.

                            After we passed the bill and it was

                 signed into law this fall, some of the board





                                                          6831



                 of trustees came to us and said, It's a great

                 bill, we like the way it is; however, because

                 of the staggered terms that we have, some of

                 us will be elected next year but won't be able

                 to take our seats for another year.

                            So we looked at it, we went to the

                 State Education Department, who had approved

                 the original concept, the State Education

                 approved it, and we made this change to the

                 bill to accommodate the board of trustees, the

                 library, and the constituents.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Did this bill

                 have a hearing in the committee on -- did this

                 bill go through the Committee on Local

                 Government last year?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.





                                                          6832



                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Was there a

                 hearing on the bill?  Did the trustees, the

                 library trustees come to the hearing?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Madam President,

                 this legislation was brought to our attention,

                 the correction, by the board of trustees in

                 the hamlet of Esopus in the town of Lloyd.

                 We, in turn, put this bill together at their

                 request.  Period.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.





                                                          6833



                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Did the Senate

                 bill drafters and the Senate staff themselves

                 go through the bill before it went to the

                 committee?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Madam President,

                 I don't know that.  All I know is that this

                 bill was originally prepared at the request of

                 the trustees of the library, with the consent

                 of the State Education Department, and now

                 they want to make a change in it.

                            This is a local government issue,

                 Senator, and I believe that the local

                 government board, the board of trustees, have

                 the -

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Madam President,

                 I don't like to be interrupted by somebody

                 sitting by one member.  If they want me to

                 answer a question, I would appreciate the

                 assistants to back off while I respond to the





                                                          6834



                 Senator.

                            Yes, go ahead.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Do you have a

                 question, Senator Duane?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            Isn't is true, though, that the

                 Governor's office found this mistake and not

                 the trustees?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    I can't hear

                 him, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, could

                 you repeat that.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I said, is it not

                 true that the Governor found this mistake and

                 not the trustees.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    I still didn't

                 hear you.  I'm sorry, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is it not true

                 that the Governor found the mistake and not

                 the trustees?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    They both found

                 it, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  On the bill.





                                                          6835



                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 on the bill, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    It's not the

                 first time, nor, I'm afraid, will it be the

                 last time that I find myself being critical of

                 the legislative process here that bills go

                 through without being vetted appropriately and

                 without the people who have asked for the bill

                 to happen actually appear.

                            Even if the bill's passage is a

                 sure thing, that doesn't ensure that the bill

                 is correctly crafted.  I think that when we

                 pass laws here, we should make sure that they

                 are as correct as possible, with all the I's

                 dotted and the T's crossed, so that we don't

                 have to, you know, go back and embarrassingly

                 change things that we've done here.

                            That's why we should have committee

                 meetings, that's why we should have public

                 hearings, so that we actually get a good,

                 strong chance to look at these bills and see

                 what their real-life impact will be.  It

                 wouldn't have happened that a term wouldn't

                 start for another year if the trustees had

                 actually been here and if we'd actually been





                                                          6836



                 able to take a good look at this in the

                 appropriate committee.

                            I'm pleased that the Governor found

                 this mistake.  I'm a little bit skeptical that

                 the trustees found the mistake.  But really,

                 it's us in the Senate who should have seen the

                 problem.

                            I'm going to vote for it, because

                 we need it.  But it does point to a larger

                 institutional problem, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect June 1.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam

                 President, could we go to Calendar Number 690,

                 by Senator Wright.  By Senator Meier, I'm





                                                          6837



                 sorry.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 690.

                            THE WITNESS:    Calendar Number

                 690, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4858, an

                 act to amend Chapter 906 of the Laws of 1984.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier, an

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    I'm glad we have

                 the right Senator finally, Madam President.

                            Certainly, I'd be glad to offer an

                 explanation.

                            This bill provides for a one-year

                 extension of what has been popularly known as

                 the "Katie Beckett" waivers.  This is a

                 program that provides for Medicaid eligibility

                 for chronically disabled children pursuant to

                 a federal waiver granted by the Health Care

                 Finance Administration in Washington.

                            These are children who are

                 SSI-eligible but their family income or family

                 resources may make them ineligible for

                 Medicaid.  The purpose is to make them

                 Medicaid-eligible so that instead of





                                                          6838



                 institutionalizing these children, we can

                 provide for home care.

                            The group of children that we are

                 talking about suffer from a number of

                 disabilities, including respiratory distress

                 of one form or another, cancer, various

                 congenital disorders, or brain injuries.

                            This really is -- and another thing

                 that is required for the children to come into

                 the program is there must be a reasonable

                 likelihood that the home-based care would be

                 more cost-effective than institutional care.

                            But more important than the cost

                 savings is the humanitarian purpose that the

                 bill promotes, permitting these children to be

                 cared for at home and to be able to grow up

                 and to live in a family environment.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, will the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Gladly, Madam





                                                          6839



                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    The benefits

                 of this bill and the waiver program -- we

                 obviously set a deadline of December 31st of

                 this year, under our usual practice of kind of

                 sunsetting these programs.  If it's working so

                 well, why wouldn't we extend it indefinitely

                 rather than extend it for just a year?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well, Madam

                 President, extending it beyond that would

                 almost be ineffective, because you have to

                 time the termination of the extension along

                 with the extension of the HCFA waiver.  So the

                 process has to be done in tandem.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.





                                                          6840



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If we

                 extended this program beyond the HCFA waiver,

                 wouldn't that be a signal to the federal

                 government to renew the waiver, that we were

                 committed to renewing this program and keeping

                 it in place?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 the problem is it might be a signal, but it

                 would be totally ineffective as a matter of

                 law.  And we are supposed to be making law

                 here.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor will just

                 continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    The final

                 question I have, Madam President, is the

                 Ohmstead case and the impact that it has on

                 this program and on what services we're

                 required to provide.  Could you just explain





                                                          6841



                 to me how we're meeting our compliance with

                 that Supreme Court case vis-a-vis this

                 program?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well, Madam

                 President, I believe my colleague is referring

                 to a recent decision of the United States

                 Supreme Court dealing with the obligation of

                 the state to, where possible, place disabled

                 persons within programs, settings, and

                 modalities of care that are as mainstream as

                 possible.

                            And this I think is quite

                 complementary to the spirit of the Ohmstead

                 decision.  I believe the State of New York, as

                 are other states trying to be responsive to

                 the Ohmstead decision, is in the process of

                 examining additional programs to see to it

                 that we have compliance with Ohmstead.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, just briefly on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    It seems to

                 me, Madam President -- I understand Senator

                 Meier's saying that if we extended this





                                                          6842



                 indefinitely we might be perhaps exceeding our

                 authority under the HCFA waiver to comply.

                            However, I would just suggest that

                 the benefits of this program, it seems to me,

                 that Senator Meier has extolled should endure

                 beyond the HCFA waiver, that this is a

                 commitment on the part of the State of

                 New York to do certain things for people in

                 our society, for those who are disabled,

                 disabled children -- that that commitment

                 should exist regardless of whether HCFA and

                 the federal government or this administration

                 in Washington thinks that this is a good idea.

                            If we think it's a good idea, we

                 should do it almost irrespective of whether

                 HCFA permits this, and we should be able to

                 use our own money to do it.  If we think that

                 the program really has value.

                            And I would hope, Senator Meier,

                 that we pass this bill.  I'm going to vote in

                 favor of it.  But I would hope that there

                 comes a time when we can take every reference

                 to time out of this bill, that we can take

                 every reference to limitations on time out of

                 the notion that we're going to provide access





                                                          6843



                 for disabled children to the best possible

                 care that they can get in this state.

                            Madam President, I'm prepared to

                 vote for this on the recommendation of Senator

                 Meier.  But my hope is that the underlying

                 commitment and the underlying success of this

                 program will not be dependent merely upon the

                 will or the waiver granted by the federal

                 government, that our commitment, as evidenced

                 by this legislation, will supersede that and

                 someday become a permanent part of the

                 services we provide in this state.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.





                                                          6844



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 691.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 691.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 691, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4859, an

                 act to amend Chapter 436 of the Laws of 1997.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier, an

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill is fairly simple.  What

                 it does is extend for a period of two years,

                 until August 22 of 2003, provisions of the

                 Welfare Reform Law which provides for and

                 defines what exempt assets are.

                            The whole notion of exempt assets

                 is that if someone does have to go on public

                 assistance, we don't want to render them

                 absolutely destitute so that they never have

                 any hope of getting off public assistance.  So

                 this extends the provisions of the Welfare

                 Reform Law, which permits people who may be on

                 public assistance to keep certain assets.





                                                          6845



                            Those include up to $2,000 in

                 liquid assets, $3,000 if a member of the

                 household is more than 60 years of age, an

                 automobile up to $4,650 in value or $9,300 in

                 value if it's required for work, a residence,

                 and a burial plot.

                            This extends that until August 22,

                 2003, which gets us through to the end of the

                 current Welfare Reform Law and coincides with

                 the need for the next reauthorization.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, will the sponsor yield just

                 to a couple of quick questions?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Certainly, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    When we

                 passed this provision in 1997, did we require

                 one of the state agencies to produce an

                 evaluation of the impact of these exemptions





                                                          6846



                 on, as I think you properly point out and

                 correctly point out, our original intent,

                 which was to allow those who are moving their

                 way out of poverty to preserve more of their

                 assets and to continue to get benefits even

                 though they may have accumulated some minor

                 assets?

                            Is there a report due from the

                 Department of Social Services or whatever it's

                 called these days to evaluate the impact of

                 raising these exemptions on people's rise up

                 from poverty?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 I'm not aware if -- I'm not saying there is

                 not.  I'm not aware that there was a specific

                 requirement that a report be done with regard

                 to the efficacy of these particular

                 provisions.

                            There was a requirement for a

                 report to be rendered in terms of the broader

                 effects of welfare reform as a matter of

                 public policy overall.  We do have some data

                 from the Office of Temporary and Disability

                 Assistance.  I'm not aware that a formal

                 report has been rendered.





                                                          6847



                            There has been a report rendered,

                 that the department was involved in preparing,

                 done by the Rockefeller Institute, which does

                 show some significant progress as a result of

                 welfare reform.  I think current count is the

                 rolls are down by some 900,000.  There's

                 significant data suggesting that a large

                 number of those who are adults have in fact

                 found employment.  There has also been some

                 identification of some continuing areas of

                 challenge.

                            But that's all that I'm personally

                 aware of in terms of my colleague's question.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor will yield to

                 another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If it appears

                 that the increase in these exemptions is

                 moving us toward the goal that we set in





                                                          6848



                 1997 -- that is, the allowance for people

                 rising out of poverty to accumulate more

                 assets and not lose government assistance and

                 benefits and/or have them tapered back in some

                 form -- why wouldn't we make this permanent?

                            I mean, it seems like -- Senator

                 Meier, I think you're right on the nose.  At

                 least my anecdotal evidence is that it's

                 working, and it seems as though we have a

                 report or some evidence from our government

                 that says it's working.  Why not just make it

                 permanent?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Well, Madam

                 President, first of all, the nuns taught me

                 some 40 years ago that nothing on this earth

                 is permanent, except perhaps the intransigence

                 of the New York State Assembly in passing

                 Senator Alesi's bill.

                            Second of all, this does relate to

                 welfare reform, which requires federal

                 reauthorization.  So we do need to stay in

                 sync with that.

                            Third of all, one of the reasons to

                 bring this up periodically and to sunset it is

                 sunsetting it precisely forces us to take a





                                                          6849



                 look at it and to see if some of these

                 provisions might not need to be increased.

                            And I do agree, the ability to

                 accumulate assets is something that lets

                 people believe they have a stake in the

                 American dream, encourages them to get off

                 welfare.  That's why the last time we

                 considered this we took the value of a vehicle

                 that people could own for the purposes of

                 work, we increased it.

                            We presently are considering at

                 least two bills that deal with permitting

                 people to keep additional assets for the

                 purpose of investing in education and other

                 things that might be helpful in getting off

                 welfare, if they have an inheritance.

                            And we're also examining for

                 possible legislation in the area of permitting

                 some degree of savings for not only some of

                 these exempt purposes but for legitimate

                 activities that move people from welfare to

                 work.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,





                                                          6850



                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I have to

                 express a substantial disappointment.  And

                 that is, the nuns that taught me 40 years ago

                 didn't teach me the meaning of the word

                 "intransigence."  I didn't get that until I

                 got to college.  So, Senator Meier, you were

                 obviously ahead of me, and the nuns in Central

                 New York were doing a better job than in

                 Rochester.

                            But despite that, I appreciate

                 Senator Meier's characterization of why we do

                 these sunset provisions.  We force ourselves

                 to rethink these notions before we move on.

                            One of my great dismays, and that's

                 why I asked about the report, is because when

                 we undertook welfare reform, we did a whole

                 bunch of strategic changes, including allowing

                 additional asset accumulation.  We phased out

                 benefits.

                            We certainly, as part of the Child

                 Health Plus and now the Family Health Plus, we

                 have decided that we weren't going to take

                 that draconian approach that said as soon as

                 you get more than X amount of assets, the day





                                                          6851



                 you get a penny more, you don't get anything.

                 We also eliminated that approach.  We

                 eliminated the approach of as soon as you make

                 so much in income, you don't get anything.

                            And I think, and I agree with

                 Senator Meier, that my sense is that the

                 impact of those changes have been to generally

                 allow the transition, the movement out of

                 poverty to occur at a much quicker rate.  And

                 I hope that the reduction in the number of

                 claims and the people who are on welfare is

                 evidence of that.

                            However, I still think that we

                 ought to require a report or an obligation to

                 tell us exactly what the effect of this

                 measure is, so that we can isolate those

                 changes and determine which are most effective

                 in producing the end result that we seek.

                            That's why I know there was a broad

                 report about the welfare rolls.  I've never

                 quite seen that report.  And what I would

                 prefer that we do is really approach this from

                 a social science point of view and analyze, to

                 the best extent we can, each one of these

                 changes to see what impact they had.





                                                          6852



                            I'm going to vote in favor of this

                 bill, Madam President.  My hope is that this,

                 like the bill before it, will become

                 permanent, that we'll recognize that this is

                 right approach, we can make it permanent.  And

                 at some point twenty years from now, when the

                 next iteration of welfare reform comes down

                 the pike, we'll just change that, put it on a

                 short-term sunset, evaluate it two or three

                 times, and then make that permanent as well.

                            But I think this is the right

                 direction to move.  I wish we had a little

                 more data that shows that this specific change

                 was getting to the specific goal we wanted.

                 But I'll vote in favor, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is





                                                          6853



                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Senator Saland's

                 bill, Calendar Number 643.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar 643.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 643, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1341, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to expanding.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Madam President, this bill would

                 expand the current provisions of protections

                 for child witnesses, vulnerable child

                 witnesses, as are found in Section 65 of the

                 Criminal Procedure Law, to include not merely

                 the current crimes, which are sex offenses

                 under Article 130, or incest, but to expand

                 those includable crimes pursuant to which a

                 vulnerable child witness would be able to





                                                          6854



                 testify by way of closed-circuit television to

                 include the crimes of first degree and second

                 degree murder.

                            This obviously is a situation in

                 which a child is compelled at times to testify

                 under the most anguishing of circumstances,

                 may be compelled to testify with regard to

                 somebody who had previously been very close to

                 the child.  There was a particular instance in

                 Erie County in which this situation actually

                 occurred.

                            The child certainly has gone

                 through enough to be at that point in place

                 and time where he or she is going to very

                 bravely walk into court and afford testify in

                 a criminal prosecution, and we should provide

                 the same types of protections that the law

                 currently provides for in sex-offense cases to

                 these young people as well.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Saland would yield for a

                 question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 will you yield?





                                                          6855



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I can

                 certainly understand the genesis of this bill,

                 the circumstance of a child having to testify

                 face-to-face with his own mother when two

                 other children apparently had been murdered by

                 the mother and the child himself was attacked.

                 It certainly demonstrates the need for this

                 type of legislation.

                            The legislation we passed in 1985

                 related more to sex offenses.  And I notice

                 that the legislation was first proposed in

                 1992.  And maybe I'm just missing something.

                 But seriously, I ask you, why has it taken us

                 so long to address this issue?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, certainly,

                 Senator Paterson, not from any lack of effort

                 in this house, because I know you and your

                 colleagues have joined with us, both sides of

                 the aisle, in passing this bill unanimously in

                 the past.

                            There seems to be some reluctance





                                                          6856



                 on the part of the Assembly, I think not

                 necessarily well-placed.  We are keenly

                 interested in this bill.  Assemblyman

                 Schimminger is sponsoring the bill in the

                 Assembly.  I'm hopeful that our continued

                 efforts will make this an issue which will

                 continue to resonate.  Certainly there are

                 ample protections in here that should assuage

                 whatever concerns that the Assembly may have.

                            This is not done arbitrarily.  It's

                 done as part of a proceeding that's carefully

                 laid out under Article 65.  Evidentiary

                 circumstances, clear and convincing evidence,

                 there has to be some extraordinary

                 circumstances.  Again, which are defined at

                 length, some ten to twelve different

                 categories in Section 65 of the CPL.

                            So I believe on the merits it's as

                 clear and convincing as can be that we should

                 be passing this in both houses and getting it

                 to the Governor's desk.  And I would say with

                 certainty that certainly this is the kind of

                 legislation that Governor Pataki would readily

                 sign into law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam





                                                          6857



                 President, if Senator Saland would yield for

                 another question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I'm

                 not trying to put you in the position of

                 debating against your bill, but I would like

                 some clarification as to what would be the

                 difference between the protection being

                 provide for the sex offenses and the

                 protection being provided under first and

                 second degree murder, given the fact that, in

                 a sense, it's the same situation where the

                 youth, the underage person, is being forced to

                 confront the adult in the courtroom.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    If I thought

                 there was a measurable standard or a

                 difference by which we could make such a

                 distinction, in all candor I wouldn't have

                 introduced this legislation.

                            I think there should be no





                                                          6858



                 distinction.  Obviously, we're not talking

                 about situations that arise in extraordinarily

                 large numbers.  We're talking about very

                 limited situations.

                            And due to the way that we

                 constructed the existing law, with the court

                 making the determination that a child witness

                 is vulnerable, there are certainly more than

                 adequate protections to ensure that the rights

                 of a defendant are not in any way, shape, or

                 form prejudiced and certainly the rights of a

                 young, vulnerable child -- in this case, less

                 than 12 years old -- are being protected to

                 the extent that the law can permit within the

                 bounds of what would be described as being

                 constitutional.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, a final question for Senator Saland

                 if he is willing to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.





                                                          6859



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, you

                 covered first and second degree murder.  I

                 wondered about the issue of capital murder and

                 wanted to know, if you had your wish, were

                 there any other crimes that you might have

                 wanted to include in this legislation -

                 perhaps dissuaded by the length in which it's

                 taken to pass it -- and just hope that you

                 would not fail to point out that this is

                 discretionary, this doesn't mandate that it

                 has to happen, but it creates the option for

                 the court.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Certainly, as

                 you point out, Senator Paterson, it would not

                 be required in each and every case.  There

                 would have to be application to the court.

                 The court would have to, again, looking to the

                 evidentiary standard, make sure this was an

                 appropriate case.

                            I'm sure that we probably,

                 collectively or individually, could conjure up

                 other circumstances in which it might well be

                 appropriate to expand these protections.  And

                 there are bills in which would expand to other

                 categories of crimes as well.





                                                          6860



                            But this would seem to be the one

                 at this particular point that cries out the

                 loudest and the most for redress.

                            And I'm hoping that a statement

                 again by this house in the unanimous fashion

                 that we believe this is an important policy

                 decision will help bring the Assembly to the

                 table and see if we can collectively protect

                 some very young innocents who should not be

                 forced to endure further traumatization in

                 these high-profile criminal cases.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of the

                 calendar month next succeeding the 30th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,





                                                          6861



                 if we could call up Calendar Number 674, by

                 Senator Wright.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar Number 674.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 674, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3525, an

                 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to deer management permits.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:

                 Explanation, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Wright,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            The bill extends the utilization

                 and issuance of deer management permits.

                 Currently they're authorized in specific areas

                 of the state in the northern zone.  And this

                 extends it into the counties of Lewis and

                 portions of Oneida County.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            Senator Skelos, excuse me.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you.

                            There will be an immediate meeting





                                                          6862



                 of the Housing Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Housing Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'm

                 supportive of this.  I just have a couple of

                 questions I'd like to ask.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Wright,

                 will you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Senator

                 Wright, how was it determined what portion of

                 the state will be able to benefit?  It seems

                 to me that we have a huge deer problem

                 throughout the state.  And I know this extends

                 to one particular area.  But why don't we have

                 something like this for the whole state?

                 Excluding the downstate areas, where we have

                 too big a population to shoot with guns.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Madam President,

                 the state is divided into areas identified as





                                                          6863



                 deer management units.  And the department

                 monitors the animal population, the deer

                 population, specifically within those units.

                 They periodically conduct public information

                 meetings with sportsmen and other interested

                 individuals within those deer management

                 units, including the farm community.

                            All of that information is then

                 collected, reviewed by the biologists and

                 others involved in wildlife management within

                 the department, and then they offer a series

                 of recommendations based on the areas that

                 they're predicting an overabundance of deer

                 population, which now constitutes some

                 60 percent of the deer management units within

                 the state.

                            They then advance the areas that

                 are to be incorporated.  Specifically, the

                 additional permits are being used in the

                 northern zone initially, and they are now

                 being spread out into other regions of the

                 state on an incremental basis.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    If the

                 Senator would yield again.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Yes, I will,





                                                          6864



                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    We have -

                 this may sound funny.  It's not.  We have a

                 huge problem with deer in Westchester County.

                 And we are not permitted to shoot them, which

                 is okay.  But we need to have some method of

                 management down there.  What is available to

                 us, since we can't utilize the same kind of

                 legislation?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I'm sorry, Madam

                 President.  I don't know what the other

                 alternatives would be.  I would refer the

                 Senator to the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Now, is -

                 maybe this will help me.  Through you, Madam

                 President, if the Senator would yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    What are





                                                          6865



                 the other measures that you utilize in this

                 area to control the deer population?  Or is

                 the extension of the hunting permit just the

                 only method you use to control the deer

                 population?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Madam President,

                 through you, you'll note, Senator, that

                 there's a subsequent bill that we'll be

                 debating soon that extends muzzle loading

                 season.  It's typically done by advancing

                 seasons, authorizing additional permits,

                 authorizing special permits for the taking of

                 deer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Okay.

                 Thank you.  Thank you, Senator.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    On the

                 bill.

                            Unfortunately, I didn't hear any

                 other alternative than hunting -- extending

                 the hunting season, permitting more deer to be

                 hunted.  That really doesn't help us

                 downstate.  I strongly support the deer

                 hunting season, because it's certainly a whole

                 lot more humane to have a deer shot to death





                                                          6866



                 than to have them starve to death.

                            And so I do support this.  And I

                 just hope there are going to be more

                 suggestions made for us downstaters who need

                 some help with our deer population, which has

                 been exploding.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, just

                 briefly, if Senator Wright would yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Wright,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I'm a

                 little confused, and I thought perhaps you'd

                 alleviate my thoughts on this.

                            I'd be surprised if there weren't

                 regulations controlling the deer population

                 now.  In other words, there's hunting in the





                                                          6867



                 area now.  How does this change the procedures

                 any more than they would exist at this point?

                 We must have some sort of regulation in those

                 areas such as Lewis County, Oneida, Oswego,

                 the Tug Hill region?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Senator, you're

                 absolutely correct.  While it may be perceived

                 as the Wild West or the wilds of the North

                 Country, in fact there are regulations through

                 the Department of Environmental Conservation.

                            Those relations are addressed in

                 this bill, in that they authorize and require

                 the issuance of special deer management

                 permits.  So this is over and above the

                 regulations that exist throughout the state,

                 and this is an additional permit that is

                 provided to allow for the additional taking of

                 deer.  We're also extending it into other

                 areas of the state as well.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, just one final question.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I will yield,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.





                                                          6868



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, this

                 is a little unrelated, but any thoughts on how

                 to regulate the deer population in the areas

                 where there is no hunting, given the shrubs

                 and the plants that the deer are eating and

                 the rapid growth of the population of deer in

                 those areas?

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    No, I don't,

                 Senator.  I gave it some consideration when

                 Senator Oppenheimer raised the issue.  I

                 recognize that a deer roundup probably was

                 inappropriate and not practical.  And so I

                 don't really have viable alternatives.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Skelos.





                                                          6869



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if you would call up Calendar Number 675, by

                 Senator Wright.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 675, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 4109, an

                 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to regulation.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Wright,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill extends the

                 muzzle-loading season and regulations

                 delegated to the Department of Environmental

                 Conservation to administer the muzzle-loading

                 big game season.  And it extends it through

                 October 1, 2005.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.





                                                          6870



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 650, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3781, an

                 act to amend the Civil Rights Law, in relation

                 to confidentiality.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Okay.  Madam

                 President, this is a bill that extends the

                 protections of the Civil Rights Law to parole

                 officers as regards their personnel records

                 under the control of the Division of Parole.

                            Virtually all people involved in

                 the law enforcement system are now covered by

                 this protection:  police officers, correction

                 officers, local correction officers, state





                                                          6871



                 correction officers.  The only ones that are

                 not, essentially, is parole.

                            And, by the way, to anticipate a

                 question, we are working with the Assembly on

                 this, and we think there's a very good chance

                 that the Assembly may pass this bill this

                 year.

                            Because one of the problems

                 relates -- obviously, parole officers are

                 coming more and more in contact with more and

                 more individuals who sometimes feel that they

                 can harass the parole officers by getting

                 personal records and so forth.  So that's what

                 this is about.

                            It still doesn't mean that

                 obviously for court purposes that the records

                 can't be obtained, because a court order can

                 obtain the records.  And of course the parole

                 officer, he or she themself can sign and allow

                 them to be used.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, Senator Volker anticipated my

                 questions.

                            So just to review, the records are





                                                          6872



                 open to discovery.  So for instance, in the

                 case of a parole officer that did have some

                 kind of history of some type of abuse or, you

                 know, misconduct on the parole officer's part,

                 that the attorney for the parolee whose

                 application was revoked would have an

                 opportunity in court to at that time review

                 those records?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Absolutely.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 652, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4088, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law and the General





                                                          6873



                 Obligations Law, in relation to placing a

                 false bomb.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maltese,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  This is an act to amend the Penal

                 Law and the General Obligations Law in

                 relation to placing a false bomb.

                            This expands the crime of placing a

                 false bomb in the first degree, which was a

                 Class E felony, to include not only when a

                 person places a false bomb upon school

                 grounds, as is the case now, but also when a

                 person commits the crime of placing a false

                 bomb in the second degree and either the

                 person has been previously convicted of

                 placing a false bomb in the second degree or

                 emergency personnel are seriously injured or

                 killed as a result of responding to such false

                 bomb incidents or a bystander is seriously

                 injured or killed by an emergency vehicle

                 responding to the false bomb.

                            This conforms placing a false bomb

                 with the report of placing a false bomb, by





                                                          6874



                 making them both Class E felonies and raising

                 them from Class A misdemeanors.  It seemed

                 inconsistent to have a certain -- the

                 reporting of placing a bomb or placing a false

                 bomb to be a Class E felony and not having the

                 actual placing of the false bomb be considered

                 a Class E felony.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if I could interrupt for a minute, there will

                 be an immediate meeting of the Finance

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    While we're

                 waiting, Madam President, it also conforms the

                 Vehicle and Traffic Law, because of the

                 suspension and revocation of license

                 provisions, those would also apply, as they do

                 now, to the placing of the false bomb.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, the immediate meeting of the





                                                          6875



                 Finance Committee preempted Senator

                 Dollinger's questions.  And I know that we're

                 all disappointed.  I'll try to stand in for

                 him and ask if the Senator would yield for a

                 question.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maltese

                 has yielded.

                            You may proceed, Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, would no bomb be a

                 false bomb?  In the sense that there doesn't

                 actually have to be a tangible object for

                 someone to be injured or killed coming to the

                 aid of others in what is perceived at that

                 time to be an emergency.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

                 President, my understanding is that this would

                 only apply to the actual placing of this false

                 bomb, which, according to the definition of

                 the section, actually describes an apparatus

                 which would have some appearance relating to a

                 false bomb.

                            The criminalizing of a person

                 injured by an emergency vehicle responding to





                                                          6876



                 this particular occurrence would -- excuse me,

                 Madam President.  I believe what the good

                 Senator is stating is whether or not the false

                 bomb or the reporting of a false bomb would

                 have to be the occurrence where an innocent

                 bystander or a member of the emergency

                 personnel service would be injured.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Right, that's

                 correct, Madam President.

                            If the Senator would continue to

                 yield.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, you will

                 yield?

                            You may proceed, Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    What I'm

                 getting at, Madam President, is at the time

                 that the emergency services and law

                 enforcement personnel are responding, they

                 can't see the false bomb or something designed

                 to appear to be a bomb.  And so I was just

                 asking Senator Maltese if he might delineate

                 the reason why there has to be a false bomb

                 for there to be a punishment.

                            Because actually, based on the way





                                                          6877



                 this bill is written, I would only see it to

                 be applicable if the injured party can

                 actually -- in other words, they see the false

                 bomb, they try to extinguish it, they fall and

                 hurt themselves or are killed.

                            My point is, it doesn't really

                 matter, when someone is responding, whether

                 they're responding to a myth or to an actual

                 object.

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

                 President, what this is seeking to do is bring

                 up the severity of the crime when the actual

                 false bomb is placed.

                            The situation that is recited by

                 Senator Paterson is already covered under the

                 reporting of a false bomb.

                            And if someone is injured by an

                 emergency vehicle or a bystander is injured in

                 the course of responding to that action, that

                 would also be a crime.  And this section seeks

                 to raise that crime in this situation from a

                 Class A misdemeanor to a Class E felony.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So in other

                 words, Madam President, what we're going to do

                 is further penalize the perpetrator for not





                                                          6878



                 only the report but the actual act of putting

                 together some apparatus that mirrors or causes

                 others to believe that it is in fact a weapon?

                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

                 President, yes, but it also can be a situation

                 where it is making the law consistent.

                            The situation heretofore was that a

                 person who made a false report and someone was

                 injured, emergency personnel or an innocent

                 bystander, in the course of responding to that

                 false report, that was raised to a Class E

                 felony.

                            In this case it was inconsistent

                 that if there was actually a false bomb placed

                 and perhaps no report made, and a bystander

                 was killed or a member of emergency personnel

                 services was killed or seriously injured, it

                 was still a Class A misdemeanor.  And this

                 raises it to a Class E felony.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of





                                                          6879



                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 670, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4438, an

                 act naming the two hard-surface boat launching

                 ramps.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:

                 Explanation.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Madam President.

                            This legislation, tragically, is

                 regarding two Coast Guardsmen, Scott Chism and

                 Chris Ferreby, who were both on duty at Coast

                 Guard Station Niagara, located in Youngstown,

                 New York, on the evening of March 24, 2001,

                 when they were out on a possible rescue

                 mission for alien smugglers and their boat was





                                                          6880



                 swamped and both Coast Guardsmen Chism and

                 Ferreby and two of their colleagues were

                 thrown into the water, and all four of them

                 were rescued and taken to the hospital.

                            And because of the long-time

                 exposure in Lake Ontario and because of the

                 inclement weather and the cold weather, Coast

                 Guardsmen Chism and Ferreby did not survive

                 the incident.  And this legislation would, in

                 their honor, and for their service to their

                 country, name two facilities at Fort Niagara

                 State Park after these two individuals.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    The

                 explanation is satisfactory, Madam President.

                            But let's do a slow roll call

                 anyway.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Pardon me,

                 Senator?  I didn't hear the last -- after the

                 "but."

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I'm sorry, I

                 lost -

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    He asked you to

                 read the last section, Madam President.





                                                          6881



                            (Laughter.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Maziarz.

                            Does any other member wish to be

                 heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo, that completes

                 the reading of the controversial calendar.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, is there any housekeeping at the

                 desk?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    No, there is not,

                 Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    May I ask

                 that we stand at ease pending the return of

                 the Finance report.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate stands





                                                          6882



                 at ease.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, there will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Minority Conference in the Minority

                 Conference Room after session.  After session,

                 they tell me.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be a

                 meeting of the Minority Conference in the

                 Minority Conference Room after session.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    After session,

                 there will be a meeting of the Minority

                 Conference.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    So stated,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 12:34 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 2:00 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno.





                                                          6883



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time return to reports of

                 standing committees.

                            I believe that there is a report

                 there from the Finance Committee.  I would ask

                 that it be read at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following bill direct to third reading:

                 Senate Print 5256, by Senator Leibell, an act

                 to provide for the adjustment of stipends.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, direct to third reading.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we take the bill up at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 795, Senator Leibell moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8718 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5256,





                                                          6884



                 Third Reading Calendar 795.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 795, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8718, an act to provide

                 for the adjustment of stipends.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 is there a message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity from the Governor at

                 the desk.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is made to the accept the message of

                 necessity and appropriation.  All in favor say

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.





                                                          6885



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As Executive Director of the

                 Consumer Protection Board, C. Adrienne Rhodes,

                 of New York City.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. -- or,

                 excuse me, Madam President, again this

                 morning -- we note it is no longer morning -

                 we have had four nominations that have come

                 from the Governor that are excellent, as the

                 previous nominees have been.  And we're proud

                 of all of them.





                                                          6886



                            And for the first we yield to the

                 Senator from Manhattan, Senator Goodman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            It's my very, very great privilege

                 indeed to present to this body the credentials

                 of an extraordinary public servant, C.

                 Adrienne Rhodes, who has been nominated as the

                 Executive Director of the Consumer Protection

                 Board.

                            Ms. Rhodes came first to my

                 awareness when I nominated her to run for

                 Congress in the East Side of Manhattan, a job

                 which she undertook despite the very great

                 odds which were prevailing in that district at

                 the time.  She handled her responsibilities in

                 this with great dignity and held up the flag,

                 I should say, in a fashion that was quite

                 exemplary.

                            Apart from that, however, she has a

                 rather important background as a former vice

                 president of the Daily News, the largest

                 circulation newspaper in the world, as you





                                                          6887



                 know.  And in addition, she was involved very

                 heavily with the United Negro College Fund and

                 a number of other very significant

                 institutions.

                            Ms. Rhodes has extensive experience

                 in consumer affairs, and it's my judgment that

                 she'll make a superb addition to the ranks of

                 people who were previously involved, such

                 high-stature folks as Betty Furness and others

                 of substantial posture and awareness of

                 consumer issues.

                            Ms. Rhodes has been in the Bush

                 administration, of the President George H.W.

                 Bush, as a U.S. Small Business Administration

                 Commissioner on Minority Business Development,

                 Media and Perception Task Force, and the like.

                            She is an individual of exceptional

                 intelligence and ability, and I think she is

                 someone whom this house I feel certain will

                 wish to give its full support to in unanimous

                 fashion.  I trust that will now be the case.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank





                                                          6888



                 you, Madam President.

                            I rise to echo the sentiments of my

                 colleague Senator Goodman on this appointment.

                 This is one of the very few appointments where

                 I know personally the record and achievements

                 of a young woman in this state who has done

                 some wonderful things.  And therefore, in

                 committee, I was more than happy to add my

                 vote to those of my colleagues in this

                 appointment.

                            And I am very pleased.  And I think

                 that, as the ranker for this committee, I

                 think that the people of the State of New York

                 will be well served having her in this

                 executive post watching out for the consumers

                 of the State of New York.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

                 very much, Madam President.

                            I rise just to echo the sentiments

                 of Senator Goodman.  As the chair of Consumer

                 Protection, I want to compliment Governor

                 Pataki for putting forth this nomination.





                                                          6889



                 Chairwoman Rhodes has done as outstanding job

                 as the acting chair, and I look forward to a

                 long working relationship with her.

                            She is taking over an agency that I

                 had the opportunity to author a significant

                 consumer protection legislation called the "Do

                 Not Call" Registry in the State of New York,

                 and she is managing the department where over

                 1.4 million New Yorkers have already signed up

                 for it.

                            I wish her the best.  I offer my

                 compliments and my full support to you.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, I too would like to rise to second

                 the nomination of C. Adrienne Rhodes.

                            I met her the other night when she

                 came up to me and grabbed me at a reception

                 that I didn't expect to be talking to the

                 Consumer Protection nominee, and I found her

                 aggressive and charming at the same time, and

                 also very informed.

                            And I thought that her answers





                                                          6890



                 today, and in reading her background, she

                 brings what I think we need to this

                 department.  I think that she'll do an

                 excellent job.

                            And to top all that off, it turns

                 out that she's a personal friend of Senator

                 Smith's.

                            So with all that in the background,

                 I couldn't resist the opportunity to get up

                 and also second the nomination and

                 congratulate the Governor on his fine

                 selection.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the

                 confirmation?

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of C. Adrienne Rhodes as Executive Director of

                 the Consumer Protection Board.  All in favor

                 will signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    C.

                 Adrienne Rhodes is hereby confirmed as





                                                          6891



                 Executive Director of the Consumer Board of

                 Protection.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    May I

                 say welcome aboard and congratulations to you

                 on this new appointment.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Board of Trustees of the City University

                 of New York, Joseph Lhota, of Brooklyn

                 Heights.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, for this very fine nominee I would

                 have to make a point that I made a mistake

                 here this morning -- at 2:00 p.m.  Two

                 nominees are from the Mayor today and two are

                 from the Governor.  Although all four are, as

                 I say, excellent.

                            And it is a pleasure to yield to

                 the Senator from Rensselaer.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    From Brunswick,

                 in Rensselaer County.

                            Thank you, Senator.





                                                          6892



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you very

                 much.

                            And, Madam President, I'm honored

                 to welcome someone with the experience, the

                 talent, and the knowledge of Joseph Lhota.

                            Welcome here to the Senate.  We're

                 here to confirm his appointment, as you've

                 heard, to the City University of New York.

                            Joe Lhota was named Deputy Mayor in

                 '98 by Mayor Giuliani.  He is one of the most

                 highly qualified people in City administration

                 and in government presently, having a

                 responsibility for operations, for the

                 relationship with state, federal, local

                 governments, dealing in his previous tenure

                 with the Mayor as budget director, with a

                 $36 billion budget, $45 billion capital.

                            He came to that job from the

                 private sector, so he is a great combination

                 of someone who has been in the private sector

                 as well as in public service, having spent 15

                 years as an investment banker previous to his

                 present position, director of public finance





                                                          6893



                 at First Boston Corporation, and a managing

                 director of municipal securities at Paine

                 Webber.

                            He brings a lot of experience from

                 the private sector to his present job.  He has

                 a family history of people who committed

                 themselves to public service.  I believe that

                 his father was a first lieutenant in the

                 New York City Police Department, and his

                 grandfather was a fireman.  So he comes

                 well-prepared for further public service.

                            And it is a testimony to the

                 Mayor's and the Governor's and our commitment

                 to education and higher education in the City

                 and in the State.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Just to carry forward the

                 fine words expressed by the Majority Leader on

                 behalf of the nominee sent to us by the Mayor

                 of the City of New York.

                            During the discussions of the

                 Finance Committee, many of us who represent





                                                          6894



                 parts of the City of New York pointed out that

                 on whatever occasion presented us where we had

                 to reach out to City Hall, City government for

                 the resolution of a problem, Deputy Mayor

                 Lhota was there to do it and to do it with

                 enthusiasm, with graciousness, and with

                 effectiveness.

                            The Mayor undoubtedly feels that

                 City University presents not only a great

                 opportunity for the people of the city of

                 New York, if not the state, but it also has

                 significant problems, some of which we will be

                 dealing with in this budget, as relates to

                 full-time faculty and many other issues that

                 are important to the City University, one of

                 the great universities to be found anywhere in

                 this country.

                            And so the Mayor has said, I want

                 my right hand there to see that what has to be

                 done is done.  And I would applaud him for

                 having made that decision.  I applaud members

                 of the Finance Committee and Higher Education

                 Committee for having confirmed, in their

                 judgments, the wisdom of that selection.

                            And so I'm pleased to second his





                                                          6895



                 nomination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

                 we feel very good about the events that took

                 place this morning at the Finance Committee,

                 and now to be replicated with very fine

                 nominees.

                            Joseph Lhota, of course, as has

                 been so eloquently pointed out by my

                 colleagues, really has a great deal to offer,

                 so much hope.

                            I had the unique opportunity -- I

                 guess I'm probably the only member in this

                 house at the time when the formation of the

                 City University was advanced, originated and

                 advanced.  And they had growing pains, too,

                 with it as well as some successes.  They had a

                 Nobel prize winner that came out of the City

                 University, but they did experience

                 difficulties.

                            But Joseph Lhota has an

                 extraordinary background.  It includes

                 Harvard, includes Georgetown.  It includes, as

                 has been pointed out, the supervision of the





                                                          6896



                 operating agencies of the City of New York.

                 And of course a great Mayor, and a great team

                 that he put together.  He pursued that with

                 great diligence and with extraordinary

                 results.

                            I mean, they've been the comment

                 throughout the world about things that have

                 been happening in New York City.  And he's

                 bringing these unique qualities available to

                 his future mission.

                            And I'm sure that he's going to

                 continue the forward progress that has been

                 resumed and acquiring speed and direction and

                 orientation when he assumes these

                 responsibilities with your approbation.

                            So I'm very, very pleased.  He's no

                 stranger to the people of my county in Staten

                 Island.  And I think the whole City of

                 New York is going to be very grateful that

                 this event is taking place.

                            I was not aware, until Senator

                 Bruno pointed it out, that public service was

                 a byword in his family.  This is a familial

                 heredity that he shares at the very highest

                 level.





                                                          6897



                            So it's indeed a very happy

                 occasion, Madam President, to urge a unanimous

                 vote on this nomination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, I first became aware of Deputy

                 Mayor Lhota's qualifications when I served on

                 the transition committee of Mayor Giuliani

                 assigned to review possible candidates for

                 high office in the city.

                            And at that time it was quite

                 evident from the interview that we

                 conducted -- a rather exhaustive interview, at

                 that -- that Joe Lhota was a man not only of

                 immense ability but tremendous potential.

                            He was selected on that occasion

                 and nominated before the Mayor, who eventually

                 decided upon his appointment as Finance

                 Commissioner of the City, a job with which I

                 have some familiarity, since I served in that

                 post in the first Lindsay administration.

                            I'd say Joe Lhota's ability to

                 perform in that job made it very clear that he

                 was capable of taking on even greater





                                                          6898



                 responsibilities, which he subsequently did as

                 budget director of the city, and then not as

                 just deputy mayor but as first deputy mayor.

                 The first deputy mayor, as we know, is the

                 deputy mayor called upon to keep the city

                 under control when the mayor is not available.

                 He has to have a very broad grasp indeed of

                 all of the activities that occur in the city.

                            And in crisis after crisis, Joe

                 Lhota indicated a superb ability to deal

                 coolly and effectively with different problems

                 that came to his desk.

                            In handling the CUNY situation, or

                 in being a participant in the board of CUNY,

                 he takes on an entirely new type of

                 responsibility which will challenge fully his

                 skill and ability.  Here a diplomacy comes

                 into play which he has already demonstrated in

                 full measure.

                            CUNY is a mess and has been for

                 some time.  It's improving, but it's clear

                 that CUNY is not giving a whole generation of

                 kids an adequate break in terms of preparing

                 them to meet the technical demands of a very

                 tough world.  And I think the mere fact that





                                                          6899



                 we're raising the standards of CUNY, that we

                 recognize that the people going into the CUNY

                 apparatus are ill-prepared and need to be

                 boosted in a significant way so that they can

                 go on to greater achievement, is a compelling

                 necessity at this time.

                            With his wonderful wife, Tamara,

                 and his fine family, I think it's quite clear

                 that this is a man well prepared to do this

                 important job.  I salute him and wish him well

                 in it, and trust we'll all vote for him with

                 enthusiasm.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I think my colleagues have spoken

                 well of Joe Lhota's work for the City of

                 New York, and I dare not be the only member on

                 this side of the aisle to rise from the City

                 of New York and speak favorably about him.

                            He has done a great job as a deputy

                 mayor, but that's because his roots were in

                 the Bronx.  He comes from the Pelham Bay

                 section of my district, where he worked very





                                                          6900



                 diligently for my predecessor, Senator

                 Calandra, during his younger days.

                 Unfortunately, he was misguided and moved to

                 Brooklyn at some point in his life.

                            And I think that we welcome him to

                 come back as a member of the board at CUNY and

                 help us work on some of the problems we're

                 having with the colleges in the city system.

                 And I am sure that, together with the other

                 members on that board, he will bring back the

                 greatness of City University that it so

                 deserves.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

                 President, I rise to speak on this nomination.

                            This term will continue until the

                 year 2004.  And while Mayor Giuliani will be

                 leaving office in seven months or so,

                 Mr. Lhota's contribution will continue well

                 past that time.  And I think it's important to

                 offer bipartisan support, because it is a

                 nonpartisan or at least it ought to be a

                 nonpartisan role, that of trustee of the City

                 University.





                                                          6901



                            I was delighted to hear Mr. Lhota

                 this morning talk about standards, because I

                 think they're important; accountability,

                 because I think it's important; and something

                 that's very important to many of us, and

                 that's the improvement in the ratio or in the

                 number of full-time faculty.

                            I'm convinced that -- or at least I

                 certainly hope that Mr. Lhota will continue in

                 this tradition of independence in the City

                 University and in continuing the fine

                 tradition of the City University that dates

                 back to the founding of City College more than

                 150 years ago.

                            So I congratulate Mr. Lhota and

                 hope that the promise of today turns into the

                 fulfillment of tomorrow.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes, I also

                 rise to commend this appointment by the Mayor

                 of Mr. Lhota to succeed Mr. Marino, also a

                 good man.

                            Mr. Lhota comes to the CUNY board





                                                          6902



                 of trustees with the credentials that were

                 mentioned so eloquently by my colleagues on

                 the other side of the aisle, as budget

                 director, finance commissioner, basically

                 first deputy mayor of the City of New York.

                 But he has been involved in higher educational

                 concerns for many years.

                            And I was delighted at one of the

                 two meetings that we had, Higher Education and

                 then Finance, that he has committed himself to

                 Chancellor Goldstein's master plan for the

                 improvement, qualitatively-wise, of the City

                 University of New York, which is an excellent

                 university, but to return it to its former

                 glory for the future glory of the university.

                            The City University of New York is

                 the nation's largest urban public university

                 and the nation's third largest public

                 university.

                            I was also delighted to hear

                 Mr. Lhota say that he is completely committed,

                 completely committed to the master plan of

                 Chancellor Matthew Goldstein, which will lead

                 in the direction we want it to lead to.  I

                 echo the words of Senator Stavisky.  Faculty





                                                          6903



                 lines, permanent lines are very, very

                 important in the greatness of the university.

                            But also I don't want him to

                 forget -- as a former professor and university

                 dean of CUNY, I don't want him to forget the

                 doctoral students.  Now, SUNY has four major

                 central campuses at Stony Brook, Binghamton,

                 Albany and Buffalo.  CUNY has only one

                 location where doctoral students are produced,

                 at the Graduate Center.

                            And there is one discrepancy that

                 exists between CUNY and SUNY which should be

                 corrected.  Unlike SUNY, there are no tuition

                 scholarships at the Graduate Center of the

                 City University of New York for doctoral

                 students to teach undergraduate students.  And

                 I know that Chancellor Goldstein favors this.

                 I know the president of the Graduate Center

                 favors this.  And I'm certain that Board

                 Member Lhota will favor this.

                            And, most importantly, Mr. Lhota is

                 coming into a situation where for over a

                 decade there has been tension and conflict,

                 and I mentioned this at the Finance Committee,

                 between the chancellor, chancellor's office,





                                                          6904



                 and certain members of the board of trustees.

                 I look upon Mr. Lhota not only as an

                 outstanding manager and administrator but a

                 great conciliator:  Henry Clay Joseph Lhota.

                 And one of his major jobs will be to bring the

                 different factions together so they can work

                 together towards the fulfillment of the master

                 plan and the greatness of the City University

                 of New York.

                            I'm proud to second this

                 nomination.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I'll be very brief.

                            I met Joe Lhota about 17 or 18

                 years ago through a couple of mutual friends.

                 And I don't have a particularly active memory

                 of that time or those occasions when I saw

                 him, but his was a name that came up often in

                 my circle of friends, since they knew him.

                            And it was really a pleasure to sit

                 here and notice how familiar my colleagues

                 have been with the work that he's done over

                 the years and the success that he's achieved





                                                          6905



                 and the great manner in which they have

                 regaled those achievements here today.

                            So having heard about him and then

                 even myself having worked with the Mayor's

                 office and with him for the past three or four

                 years, it's really a pleasure to see someone

                 fulfill the processes that others believed in

                 many years ago.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the

                 confirmation?

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Joseph Lhota as member of the Board of

                 Trustees of the City University of New York.

                 All in favor will signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Joseph

                 Lhota is hereby appointed as a member of the

                 Board of Trustees of the City University of

                 New York.

                            (Applause.)





                                                          6906



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    May we

                 add our best wishes and congratulations to

                 you.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Metropolitan Transportation Authority,

                 Robert Harding, Esquire, of Riverdale.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            The other fine appointment of the

                 Mayor here today is a stranger to none of us.

                            And it is a pleasure for me to

                 yield to the Senator from Brunswick.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you very

                 much, Senator Stafford -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    -- chair of

                 Finance, a very important and prestigious

                 committee in this Senate.

                            I want to stand and join with my

                 colleagues in welcoming the nomination of Bob

                 Harding to the MTA board.  All of us know how





                                                          6907



                 important mass transit is in New York City,

                 throughout the Northeast.  This is a very

                 important appointment.  We applaud the Mayor

                 for sending Joseph Lhota and Bob Harding to us

                 to continue their public service.

                            Bob Harding is well prepared to

                 serve in this capacity, presently serving as a

                 deputy mayor, having been a budget director

                 himself in the City, having served here as the

                 general counsel and officer of the New York

                 State Science and Technology Foundation,

                 counsel to the Speaker in the Assembly.  He is

                 a professor, visiting professor at Albany Law

                 School as well as Hudson Valley Community

                 College.  He was in the private practice of

                 law for a number of years.

                            So we're very, very pleased that we

                 have as capable an individual as Bob Harding,

                 who will continue to be of service to the

                 public in this very important and meaningful

                 way.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam





                                                          6908



                 President, there has been some very intense

                 investigation of this nominee before

                 presenting him to this body.  He was asked two

                 quiz questions.  First of all, what is the

                 definition of a twack?  A twack, as we all

                 know, is what a twain runs on.  And he was

                 able to answer that instantaneously.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    The other

                 question was, What is the significance of

                 certain railroad signal known as a clothespin?

                 A clothespin can be hung across a track to

                 warn of storm conditions in which there's a

                 washout on the line.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    So with these

                 two things having been cleared, we now -- if

                 the Secretary would strike those, I would

                 appreciate it.

                            Quite earnestly, the reason I

                 indulge in such frivolity is that I'm being

                 called upon in four consecutive cases to orate

                 with all the passion at my disposal about the

                 virtues of these candidates.  In this case, I

                 do so with complete sincerity.





                                                          6909



                            Bob Harding is a remarkably

                 talented individual, the son of a well-known

                 father.  And the presumption might have been

                 earlier in his career that he was advancing as

                 a result of the reflected glory of his father,

                 but those of us who know Bob realize that, if

                 anything, his father's career has advanced in

                 the reflection of Bob's ability, which is

                 absolutely outstanding.

                            He's a brilliant lawyer, a superb

                 administrator, one who has taken on duties in

                 the city which range from various major

                 economic development projects to other matters

                 of operational significance in the city.  He's

                 a pleasure to work with, a man of immense good

                 nature and good humor, and always one who can

                 be always relied upon to be responsive and

                 available for any discussion needed in

                 connection with legislation.

                            As we all recall, he was the city's

                 legislative representative to this body, a

                 responsibility he carried out with great

                 distinction.

                            Finally, let me just say that Bob

                 Harding faces a daunting task; namely, trying





                                                          6910



                 to determine how to obtain sufficient funding

                 for the Second Avenue Subway, for the feeder

                 line that will bring people in from Long

                 Island to the 42nd Street Station and

                 Grand Central.  The overcrowding in both of

                 these systems is manifest.  And the fact is

                 that there's a very severe shortage of funding

                 with which to achieve solutions to these

                 problems.

                            So this is perhaps the greatest

                 challenge which Bob Harding will ever have

                 faced in his public career.  I look forward to

                 riding the Second Avenue Subway sometime

                 before the turn of the next century.  And if

                 we are able to do that, it will be in no small

                 measure because Bob Harding was on the job and

                 it was being certain that no train should ever

                 run empty or in a situation where it could not

                 assist the beleaguered people who have to go

                 back and forth to work every day.

                            I warmly salute Bob and hope that

                 he will have good luck in the position to

                 which we'll appoint him this afternoon.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan.





                                                          6911



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I don't recall if the Majority

                 Leader pointed out that for many years Bob

                 Harding headed up the mayor's office here in

                 Albany.  And that's when I really got to know

                 him.  And he left an indelible impression.  As

                 a matter of fact, I have a leather couch in

                 the adjoining office to mine that has an

                 impression that he left during the period of

                 time that he served in that capacity.

                            During the hearing or the meeting

                 of the Transportation Committee, chaired by

                 Senator Trunzo, on which I serve, and during

                 the Finance Committee meeting, a number of

                 you -- or some of you were there, many of you

                 were not, most of you were not -- asked some

                 very significant questions to the nominee.

                 The Second Avenue Subway, energy-efficient

                 buses, a variety of issues that are important

                 to the transit system not only in the City -

                 we even had a guest member there talking about

                 one of our other counties, asking questions.

                            The point I'd like to make is that

                 in each case, Bob Harding was able to give an





                                                          6912



                 answer that made sense, that demonstrated he'd

                 done his homework and that frankly he knows

                 what he's talking about.

                            And so the MTA, which for a variety

                 of reasons, not the least of which is the fact

                 that we're dealing with five-year plan that

                 has a big hole in it -- namely, the fact that

                 the bond issue did not pass -- will have some

                 very, very significant challenges.

                            And there's no doubt in my mind

                 that this nominee, again here at the good

                 judgment of the Mayor, who also recognizes a

                 problem there and wants one of his first-line

                 people involved in solving it, that that makes

                 a great deal of sense.

                            And so, Madam President, I am

                 pleased and honored to be a seconder of this

                 nomination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I rise again to praise the laurels

                 of another fellow Bronxite, Bob Harding, who

                 lives in the Riverdale community just a few





                                                          6913



                 blocks out of the line of my district.

                            And based upon his politics, and

                 that of his family, I've asked Senator Skelos

                 to keep him on that side of the line of my

                 district so that we will be able to enjoy for

                 a long time to come our friendship and his

                 service to the City and to the people of this

                 state.

                            I am sure he will do a great job

                 with the MTA.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes, I rise

                 also to second the nomination of an

                 outstanding person, Robert Harding.

                            Bob arrived at Albany about the

                 same time I did, in different positions, and I

                 learned a great deal about politics from him,

                 especially New York City politics and state

                 politics.

                            Bob Harding is a very gifted

                 person.  He was then, he is today, and I'm

                 sure he'll be tomorrow.  But he is going into

                 the eye of the whirlwind.  Anyone who takes a

                 position on the Metropolitan Transit Authority





                                                          6914



                 is going into the eye of the whirlwind.

                            And why do I say that?  Some of the

                 people have already discussed some of the

                 problems.  The capital budget has to be

                 reviewed.  Even if the bond act had been

                 passed, the capital budget has to be reviewed.

                            We have today between -- in New

                 York City alone, a ridership of 2,200,000,000

                 riders.  With Metro North and with the Long

                 Island Railroad, you have 800 million more,

                 for a total of 3 billion people a year.  And

                 we need more cars on our trains.  And we need

                 more service and better service.  How does one

                 do this with the limitations on the capital

                 monies coming in, which will have to be

                 reviewed?

                            But let me just bring up, since

                 some of our colleagues have mentioned

                 individual areas, an area which I will call

                 the alphabet soup of the New Deal.  You know,

                 Franklin Delano Roosevelt created the NRA and

                 he created the TWA and he created the WPA, in

                 many ways rescuing us from the Depression.  I

                 hope, Bob, that you will be able to tackle

                 some of the alphabets that are now causing





                                                          6915



                 problems in the City of New York as a result

                 of the restructuring of the Manhattan Bridge.

                            The B train is being eliminated.

                 The D train is being eliminated.  The Q train

                 becomes QA and QB.  There's a new W train,

                 there's a new V train.  There will be many

                 people who will not be able to get on the 6th

                 Avenue line into Manhattan where they work,

                 coming in from Brooklyn or Queens where they

                 live.  Especially a population that doesn't

                 vote as much now as it will tomorrow, the

                 Chinese-American immigrant population.

                            And I know there are many, many

                 other issues of great concern to Mr. Harding.

                 And the Manhattan Beach reconstruction is not

                 the problem of this Mayor or this Governor.

                 It was announced in 1986 with a different

                 mayor and a different governor.

                            And I would hope -- and when the

                 Senate Democrats from Brooklyn had a hearing

                 last week in Brooklyn relating to the changes

                 on the Manhattan Bridge due to reconstruction.

                 President Larry Reuter of MTA New York Transit

                 Authority was there, and he is going to review

                 the possibility of the M train being used all





                                                          6916



                 day long rather than just during rush hours to

                 alleviate the problems on the B train and the

                 D train and the Q trains, et cetera.

                            Bob, I really commend you for

                 accepting this position.  It won't be easy in

                 the eye of the whirlwind.  But if anyone can

                 get through this hurricane and create a better

                 society through the interconnecting means of

                 reaching various parts of the city, it will be

                 you.

                            Congratulations and good luck.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, I too rise to second the nomination

                 of Mr. Harding.  I was going to second the

                 nomination of Mr. Lhota, but I figured I'd do

                 both in one brief comment on this one.

                            And although it was mentioned

                 earlier that both of them answered all the

                 questions, as different as they were in the

                 Finance Committee, the one question I don't

                 think either of them could answer, and none of

                 us could figure out, is both their nominations

                 made Senator Padavan smile.  And if I were





                                                          6917



                 them, I'd worry about that, it would be a

                 major concern to me -- much smaller than any

                 of the problems they'll face in their new

                 jobs.

                            But I think they're both very

                 qualified and will do a great job, and I

                 second the nomination of Mr. Harding.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, I join my colleagues in

                 congratulating the Governor and the Mayer for

                 presenting both these wonderful nominees.

                            I've had the pleasure of working

                 with Bob Harding.  He's always been very, very

                 responsive to my needs.

                            And going over the resume of Joe

                 Lhota, I know Councilman Vallone has always

                 spoken very highly of him and his

                 capabilities.  So I congratulate him.

                            And I would also appreciate if the

                 stenographer could give me a transcript of

                 what Senator Goodman said, because I lost him

                 on the twacks.





                                                          6918



                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            When I was first appointed by

                 Senator Connor to lead the floor for the

                 Minority, it was around the time that

                 Mr. Harding was the Mayor's liaison.  And he

                 was of extreme assistance to me, who didn't

                 have the slightest idea what was going on in

                 here or anywhere else.

                            And as he has succeeded to be the

                 Mayor's deputy, every time we've had a problem

                 and we have called him, we have gotten a

                 response.  And I don't think there's any

                 higher compliment in government that you can

                 give to a person of those means.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wish to speak on the

                 confirmation?

                            Senator Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

                 you can see the sincerity and the enthusiasm





                                                          6919



                 by which this nominee has been endorsed by

                 speaker after speaker.

                            I'm probably the only person in

                 this chamber or in this building that worked

                 on the origination and the formulation of the

                 MTA.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    And before that.

                            But I remember at the close of the

                 '60s, transportation was not a -- it was

                 compartmented.  You had ferries and you had

                 railroads, you had airports.  But there was no

                 conceptual overview of the movement, the

                 philosophy and the planning for the movement

                 of people and for commerce and for all of the

                 diverse purposes until about the end of the

                 '60s.

                            And then we started to see the

                 transportation entities arise, and then the

                 larger view, the larger perspective that it

                 was all part of something that you had to

                 conceptualize in terms of the needs of people,

                 and then the implementation takes place within

                 the various agencies that we knew only as

                 separate but autonomous agencies.





                                                          6920



                            I had the pleasure of knowing at

                 least two of the predecessors of our future

                 nominee when he is confirmed.  And they were

                 fine.  I'm sure that he's going to fulfill the

                 promise held out by so many speakers in his

                 service.

                            Many of us have had the opportunity

                 of interacting with him when he was a

                 go-between for legislation.  And he always

                 evidenced a profound wisdom in furthering or

                 urging serious consideration of various

                 measures.

                            So that I think we're -- I believe

                 I may have put it, at another point, as an

                 embarrassment of riches today, because we do

                 have excellent nominees, Madam President.  And

                 I'm very, very delighted that I have the

                 opportunity of endorsing an old friend and one

                 who certainly will hold our trust and

                 confidence in him as a goad and a stir and a

                 propulsive force in rendering exemplary

                 service to the people of the area.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the

                 confirmation?





                                                          6921



                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Robert Harding as a member of the

                 Metropolitan Transportation Authority.  All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Robert

                 Harding is hereby confirmed as a member of the

                 Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Congratulations and best wishes.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As Superintendent

                 of Insurance, Gregory V. Serio, Esquire, of

                 Latham.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            For the fourth excellent nominee

                 today -- this nominee from the Governor -

                 it's a pleasure to yield to Senator Bruno.





                                                          6922



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you very

                 much, Senator Stafford.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    And it is a

                 pleasure for me, Madam President and

                 colleagues, to stand in support of our Deputy

                 Superintendent of Insurance and welcome him

                 back to this chamber.

                            Greg Serio served in the Senate in

                 many very important positions, more than I

                 will take time to relate.  But he has been

                 serving in the Insurance Department as

                 counsel, first deputy, acting superintendent,

                 first deputy again, and now acting

                 superintendent.  Highly qualified, extensive

                 background, couldn't be a better choice that

                 the Governor could send us to serve in this

                 capacity.

                            I believe the last exposure that he

                 had here in the Senate was as counsel to the

                 very accomplished chair of the Insurance

                 Committee, Senator Velella.  And I will now

                 defer to him to continue this discussion about

                 this highly qualified candidate.





                                                          6923



                            Senator Velella.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Velella.

                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Thank you,

                 Senator Bruno.  Having tried to sabotage the

                 nomination by talking about his past history

                 with me, I think I'll have to try and recoup

                 on that.

                            Greg had a great deal of experience

                 in the Senate, not only working with me for

                 six years as counsel to the Insurance

                 Committee, but also to a prior member of the

                 Senate and former chairman of the Insurance

                 Committee, Senator Dunne, where he worked for

                 six years, and has learned a great deal about

                 the insurance business right here in the

                 Senate.

                            His experience both in the Senate

                 for 12 years and in the department for seven

                 years bring a blend of a regulator with

                 experience, but someone who has had the

                 constituent consumer service that was required

                 as a counsel to the committee, as a counsel to

                 a member, who handled many of the problems

                 that individuals brought to us as chairmen of





                                                          6924



                 the committee that had problems with insurance

                 companies, our constituents.  He knows that

                 side of it as well as the regulatory side.

                            And that blend of experience has

                 served him well as he's worked in the

                 Insurance Department.  And I think I can

                 clearly say that nobody has ever been

                 nominated for this position who comes to this

                 position with a better understanding of the

                 law or more experience in a hands-on way with

                 the effects that companies have on the

                 everyday lives of people than Greg Serio.

                            Certainly we're going to be facing,

                 in the next several months and probably for

                 the next year or two, some very, very serious

                 issues in the insurance industry.  He has the

                 ability, the knowledge, and the common sense

                 to deal with those effectively.

                            I predict that he will be one of

                 the banner superintendents of insurance in

                 this state, and I proudly second his

                 nomination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you, Madam





                                                          6925



                 President, my colleagues.

                            I'm very pleased today, as the

                 current chairman of the Insurance Committee,

                 to stand in full support of Greg Serio to be

                 our next Superintendent of Insurance.

                            And I can report to this body that

                 last week when the Insurance Committee

                 considered Mr. Serio's nomination, and after a

                 great deal of discussion, he was both

                 unanimously and with bipartisan support

                 received the full support of the committee.

                 And I think that's a tribute to the

                 qualifications of our nominee.  And of course

                 the same occurred today in the Finance

                 Committee as well.

                            And I just want to commend and

                 congratulate the Governor for making this

                 nomination.  I think it's a testimony once

                 again to the Governor's commitment to

                 excellence in his agency heads, as well as

                 recognizing the importance of putting a steady

                 and proven hand at the helm of a very, very

                 important agency, particularly as it relates

                 to our very significant and large financial

                 services and insurance industry in New York





                                                          6926



                 State.

                            You know, if you take a look at the

                 insurance industry as a whole, tremendous

                 impact on the economic-development future of

                 our state.  Thousands and thousands of

                 New Yorkers are employed one way or another in

                 this overall industry.  That's certainly

                 important to our state and the people of our

                 state.

                            And, of course, insurance, as has

                 been mentioned by my colleagues, impacts the

                 everyday lives of every single New Yorker,

                 whether it be auto insurance, health

                 insurance, life insurance, property and

                 casualty.  The list goes on.

                            And it's very, very important to

                 the everyday lives of New Yorkers that we have

                 someone at the head of the Insurance

                 Department that can balance the interests of

                 the companies that do business here but also

                 the consumers, insurance consumers of our

                 state.

                            And I think it goes without saying

                 that our nominee today I think is the most

                 qualified individual to head this important





                                                          6927



                 department, particularly when there are many

                 challenges to be faced in this day and age.

                            I think Greg Serio is the right

                 person at the right time to head this

                 department.  In the years he's served with the

                 department, he's gained a wealth of knowledge,

                 experience, and wisdom.  And now as the

                 superintendent himself, he'll have the

                 opportunity to put that knowledge and wisdom

                 to work on behalf of the people of our state.

                            Now, in my dealings with Greg Serio

                 I've always found him to be knowledgeable of

                 the issues, very sensitive to the needs of the

                 people of our state, and very willing to hear

                 all points of view on any given issue.  His

                 background with the Senate, both with Senator

                 Dunne and with Senator Velella, obviously has

                 given him a keen understanding of our process

                 here.

                            And I think that that's also going

                 to serve the department and the people of our

                 state in very good standing, because of the

                 fact we'll be working together to shepherd

                 legislative proposals through this Legislature

                 on behalf of the people of our state.





                                                          6928



                            So I, Madam Chairman, stand to

                 offer my support and congratulations to Greg

                 Serio.  I very much look forward to continuing

                 to work with him on behalf of the people of

                 our state as we face so many challenges in the

                 insurance area in the years to come.

                            Congratulations, Greg.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, I rise enthusiastically to support

                 this appointment.

                            Superintendent of Insurance Gregory

                 Serio.  That has a wonderful ring to it.  I

                 met Greg 16 years ago, in a much different

                 time and place, prior to marriage, prior to

                 any certainty about what our careers would

                 wind up being.

                            Both our careers were launched by

                 Senator John Dunne, who sits here today with

                 enormous pride not only in this nominee but

                 also in the knowledge that Commissioner of the

                 Department of Motor Vehicles Ray Martinez also

                 came from John Dunne's shop.  He did some

                 pretty good recruiting back then.





                                                          6929



                            John Dunne instilled in the both of

                 us a sense of pride in the work of government

                 and a fidelity to the people we serve and an

                 appreciation that the language of a bill is

                 not just words on page but rather the rules of

                 our society and should be treated as such.

                            This is also an important

                 expression of public policy on behalf of the

                 Governor.  With a high-profile position such

                 as yours, Greg, the temptation might have been

                 to go outside of government, to pick somebody

                 perhaps from another state who might have a

                 bigger name.  Instead, the Governor decided to

                 go through the chairs, as you have, and choose

                 somebody who has been one of us and has worked

                 with one of us.

                            You've had the aspirations and the

                 dreams, the failures, the regrets that all of

                 us have had, and yet you stuck to it, you

                 stuck with it.  You could have left a lot of

                 times; you did not.  Today is your ascension.

                 And of course with every ascension in life

                 there's the good and the bad.  With the power

                 and the prestige comes the responsibility.

                            The challenges you are going to





                                                          6930



                 face in the next six months are going to be

                 enormous.  Seniors who don't know, sometimes,

                 whether or not they should pay for groceries

                 or for prescriptions.  Individuals in the

                 state who wonder whether or not they're going

                 to be able to afford to drive a car with the

                 insurance costs.

                            These are your unique challenges,

                 your unique responsibilities.  But I can think

                 of no one in my career in this government who

                 is better suited by temperament, better

                 trained by experience, and better motivated by

                 heart than Gregory V. Serio to resolve these

                 issues to the benefit of the people of this

                 great state.

                            Congratulations, Greg.  Godspeed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I'm delighted to join my

                 colleagues in seconding the nomination of Greg

                 Serio as Superintendent of Insurance.

                            And I was so impressed by Senator

                 Velella's comments.  Our Majority Leader

                 reminded me that he's been practicing for six





                                                          6931



                 years, for this day, that speech.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    But, Guy, you

                 did a good job.

                            And I know John Dunne is in the

                 back.  You did a great job.

                            I just want to acknowledge the fact

                 that his wife, Linda, is here, her parents are

                 here, and also Greg's mom and perhaps other

                 family members.

                            I know that, Mrs. Serio, you are

                 very, very proud today.  You reside in my

                 district.  Greg grew up in my district.  So I

                 guess I can share some of the credit by the

                 fact that you come from the 9th Senatorial

                 District, as does Ray Martinez also.  And so

                 they are well-grounded individuals and well

                 prepared for the tasks ahead of them.

                            But, Mrs. Serio, I know how proud

                 you are.  You are a loving mother of a number

                 of children.  You work in a dedicated way for

                 the senior citizens of the town of Hempstead,

                 where there are so many wonderful programs.

                 We all know Greg is going to do a great job,

                 and the foundation has been established by





                                                          6932



                 you.

                            And so we congratulate both of you,

                 both you and your mom.  Congratulations, Greg.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, if we stop for a moment and think

                 about this, there's probably no job in the

                 state of New York that is more important in

                 cushioning people against adversity than that

                 of insurance commissioner.

                            If you think for a moment of the

                 catastrophe that can hit a family if, for the

                 sake of argument, there's a fatal illness or a

                 very severe illness which is of long duration,

                 if your car is in a severe crash and people

                 may have been injured in that accident, if you

                 have a situation in which you've been robbed

                 and your home has been invaded by a thief who

                 takes off with valuable property -- in all

                 these instances you turn to your insurance

                 policies to protect you and shield you against

                 this potential disaster which occurs.

                            If we do not have a good, vigilant

                 Insurance Superintendent and an insurance





                                                          6933



                 individual of great skill and capacity, we'll

                 be in deep trouble, obviously.  So knowing

                 that that is the fact, I think Greg Serio is a

                 dynamo.  I think of him as kind of a coiled

                 spring ready to leap into action at any moment

                 when things get messed up in the insurance

                 field.

                            And he's a person of tremendous

                 ability.  His mother must be very proud indeed

                 to have a son of such energy and dynamism.

                 And I can only say that we wish you well,

                 Greg, because you really are a man who stands

                 between an individual and potential disaster.

                            Keep up the great work.  I think

                 we'll all sleep a little better at night

                 knowing that as someone enters our house while

                 we sleep to steal the family's crown jewels,

                 you will protect us if they should disappear.

                 Similarly, if one of our kids crashes a car

                 coming home and drives through the closed

                 garage door, you will be there.  And in the

                 event that we should have too much to consume

                 at a party and develop gastritis of long

                 duration, you will be there to help us with

                 our health insurance to solve that problem.





                                                          6934



                            So keep up the great work.  We'll

                 all be the better for it.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Madam President.

                            I too want to rise and join my

                 colleagues in seconding this nomination of

                 Greg Serio.  It's an excellent nomination by

                 Governor Pataki.

                            Quite frankly, for the past several

                 years in my office when we get a constituent

                 complaint or concern about insurance, be it

                 automobile, health insurance or whatever, Greg

                 Serio has been the go-to guy in the Insurance

                 Department.  He, along with his staff, have

                 done an excellent job.  And it's great to see

                 someone who has worked his way up through the

                 ranks.

                            I'm sure that your family is

                 rightfully and justifiably very proud of you,

                 Greg, and I just want to congratulate you and

                 the great staff that you have working with you

                 in the Insurance Department.  They do a great





                                                          6935



                 job for all of us as members of this body.

                            Thank you.  Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            And it's been said earlier by

                 Senator Velella that it would be a long time

                 before we'll see anyone come in for an

                 appointment with better credentials than Greg

                 Serio has for this.

                            I have known Greg Serio over the

                 course of many, many years in the Legislature,

                 and personally.  I served for almost a decade

                 as the ranking Minority member in the other

                 house on the Insurance Committee.  He has a

                 tremendous knowledge of insurance, the law,

                 the industry.  He brings to an area that is so

                 sensitive his great depth of knowledge.

                            I can tell you, I think all of our

                 residents of this state and all of my

                 constituents are immensely fortunate to have

                 this appointment today.  And I congratulate

                 Governor Pataki for sending us this name.  And





                                                          6936



                 I wish you well, Greg.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I rise to join my colleagues and

                 second the nomination of Greg Serio.

                            You know, Senator Velella had him

                 as a counsel, but we shared a conference room.

                 So I also called him my associate counsel for

                 insurance, because I've served on Insurance in

                 both houses for close to twenty years.

                            We talk about Greg in this house,

                 we talk about Greg in this chamber.  But I am

                 the incoming president of the National

                 Conference of Insurance Legislators, and just

                 earlier this morning I received a call from

                 Texas, from your good friend David Counts, who

                 asked to be remembered and to thank you for

                 taking up the initiative in this seat.

                            We talk about insurance in the

                 State of New York and we talk about worrying

                 about our people here.  But Greg's job is

                 going to be international, because insurance

                 out of the state of New York is an

                 international issue today.  And we need





                                                          6937



                 somebody who's got the ability to work with

                 other people on a same-plane basis.  Greg has

                 met with these people.

                            Last fall when we were -- a

                 delegation from the National Insurance were in

                 Europe, the first thing one of them asked us,

                 out of the Lloyds of London, "When will Greg

                 become the Superintendent of Insurance?"  My

                 response was, "When you people move to New

                 York and convince the Governor it's time for

                 Greg to rise."

                            This is an individual who has not

                 shirked his responsibilities.  There's nobody

                 in this state that's ever asked him to come

                 someplace.  About two months ago he was in my

                 district, talking about the new health

                 insurance and how we should operate with it.

                            But the nicest thing that I

                 remember about Greg was Greg didn't take me,

                 me, me, I.  Greg was always a team player.  I

                 remember in Kingston when he said, "You know,

                 this is something that Senator Velella and I

                 tried to do three or four years ago."  And

                 when he commented about Senator Dunne, he

                 said, "Senator John Dunne gave me the





                                                          6938



                 opportunity."

                            And Greg was always there.  I

                 remember the time that Senator Velella dragged

                 him to the state of Utah in the winter when

                 Senator Velella said, "We came here, we're

                 going to speak, and we're leaving."  And Greg

                 says, "Could we have coffee?"  He said, "I

                 don't think they make my kind.  This is Utah,

                 not New York."

                            But it was an issue that put

                 everybody in the National Association of

                 Insurance Commissioners on record that

                 New York was not going to be a whipping boy

                 and that we in this state had people who knew

                 the industry, not just in New York but

                 nationwide.

                            And I'm confident that what you're

                 going to do is make us even prouder.  You've

                 been there for us, you've been there for our

                 people, you'll be there for everybody.

                            And I thank his mother for raising

                 a nice young boy.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,





                                                          6939



                 Madam President.

                            I've listened to the stories of

                 Greg Serio serving Senator John Dunne and

                 Senator Velella and Senator Leibell.  I'm not

                 old enough to remember when that took place.

                            But I have, in my four years as the

                 ranking Democrat on Insurance, have had the

                 opportunity to interact with Greg Serio.  And

                 let me tell you, the Governor has made one

                 wonderful choice.

                            He is by far the most accessible

                 agency person that I have dealt with.  He's

                 bright, he knows the issues.  And let me also

                 tell you that the issues during the next year

                 with property and casualty in New York City or

                 speed to market or privacy or some mandates

                 that we have under federal legislation, Greg

                 Serio knows those issues.

                            And I might also add that even

                 though Greg Serio was born and raised in

                 Senator Skelos's district, he now resides in

                 the 42nd Senate District, which is Albany.  So

                 he did in fact see the light and he came to

                 the Gateway to the West to live and to work.

                            And I can't emphasize enough that





                                                          6940



                 Greg Serio will be viewed, as we look back, as

                 the finest insurance commissioner this state

                 will ever have.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Markowitz.

                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    Thank you

                 very, very much.

                            First of all, I want to say hello

                 again to Senator Dunne, one of the most

                 elegant members of the Senate that ever graced

                 the Senate.  It's always good to see you,

                 that's for sure.

                            Secondly, also to join in

                 commending the Governor on a wonderful

                 appointment.

                            But I have great hopes that this

                 wonderful appointment will mean that our new

                 superintendent will be historic in his

                 achievements.  And during the committee

                 process, I raised the issue -- and I have to

                 raise it now.  Because while we're talking

                 about his wonderful achievements and

                 achievements to come, I know that he can make

                 a name nationally by making sure that New York





                                                          6941



                 is not number one, meaning that we should

                 never be the highest rates of automobile

                 insurance in the nation.  That should never be

                 a goal of New York State.

                            And, further, Brooklyn

                 unfortunately leads the pack in terms of the

                 rates of automobile that the motorists have to

                 pay.

                            And so one of the things I

                 mentioned in committee that I want to share

                 with everyone here in the chamber is that one

                 of the first objectives of our new

                 superintendent must be to find ways to roll

                 back, to lower the cost of automobile

                 insurance in the state and, in particular, in

                 our urban areas.

                            Now, I just want to share, if I

                 may, that a 20-year-old single male living in

                 Brooklyn and who is assigned to the assigned

                 risk part, is now paying approximately $3,136.

                 Imagine that for automobile insurance.  And if

                 a 30 percent rate increase is expected this

                 year, that coverage will increase to $4,076.

                            Too many of our folks are being

                 assigned into high-risk pools.  And what is





                                                          6942



                 happening is that automobile insurance is more

                 and more out of the reach of the average

                 Brooklynite and the average motorist in

                 New York.  And so what happens increasingly is

                 that more and more motorists are buying their

                 cars and not renewing their insurance.  And

                 that puts all of us in greater risk.

                            And so I want the new

                 Superintendent of Insurance to know that you

                 have the ability, you've got the genius, the

                 expertise, work.  You've all come to this

                 moment now.  And so we have great expectations

                 for you.  And I for one believe that you will

                 make a significant contribution to ensuring

                 that all motorists in this state will never

                 lead the pack in the country in terms of

                 insurance fees and rates and that we'll be

                 successful in lowering the cost so that all

                 motorists will be able to afford car

                 insurance.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.





                                                          6943



                            I rise to commend the Governor for

                 this appointment as well.  I've certainly

                 known of Greg by reputation, and through

                 Senator Velella by association.  And I'm going

                 to vote for him, Senator Velella.

                            And I think that the critical thing

                 for me is that whoever is going to be in

                 charge of probably the most influential

                 insurance department in the world, right here

                 in New York State, has to be someone who's got

                 familiarity with the issues, who knows the

                 public strategies in the sense of the impact

                 of rates on both providers of insurance and

                 those who are buying it.  And I think Greg has

                 all those.

                            I also believe that he and I may

                 not agree on a whole bunch of issues with

                 respect to what the future of automobile

                 insurance is.  We may not agree on how to try

                 to restrict and what excess profits would be

                 in the insurance industry, how you calculate

                 them.  And we may not agree on a whole gamut

                 of issues that affect vital consumer issues in

                 this state.

                            But there is one thing that I





                                                          6944



                 absolutely insist on, and that is that if I'm

                 going to have an adversary, it has to be a

                 formidable one.  It has to be someone who's

                 smart, someone who can communicate, someone

                 knows the issues well and can articulate them,

                 even if we don't necessarily see eye to eye.

                            And I won't predict, Mr.

                 Superintendent, that you and I will be on

                 opposite sides of the fence.  But if we do, I

                 think that that reasonable and principled

                 discussion of different points of view is

                 what's critical to the democratic process.

                 And I certainly won't be afraid to air my

                 particular views, as I hope you will not be

                 afraid to air yours.

                            And what I hope happens is that out

                 of that kind of discussion, the same kind of

                 discussion that goes on in this chamber

                 occasionally -- and maybe, in my judgment,

                 should go on more frequently -- but

                 nonetheless, that discussion, open discussion,

                 with information and ideas and a realistic

                 sense of what goes on in the marketplace, that

                 together, both with your leadership and with

                 the approval of this body and the ongoing





                                                          6945



                 debate among its members both here and in the

                 Assembly and in the broader general public, we

                 will achieve the goal of using insurance for

                 what it's intended to be.  And that is as a

                 way for everyone to minimize their risk of

                 living in this very complex society.

                            So I look forward to those days of

                 agreement and perhaps even disagreement.  But,

                 Greg, you're certainly -- if I end up on the

                 other side, you're the kind of guy I'd want as

                 my opponent.  And I say that with all due

                 respect and with sincerity.  And I wish you

                 the best as you deal with this enormously

                 complicated, difficult, highly regulated

                 industry.

                            I agree with Senator Seward.

                 You're the right man for the job at the right

                 time.  And Godspeed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, I too rise to second the

                 nomination.

                            I've known Greg for a long time,

                 both as a staff person and as a deputy





                                                          6946



                 commissioner.  I've always found him easy to

                 work with.  He's accessible.  And even if he

                 doesn't agree with you, at least you get an

                 answer.

                            I think he's very capable.  I think

                 he brings a lot to this position.  I think the

                 Governor made an excellent selection.  And I

                 think he'll be a great superintendent.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I rise to join

                 my colleagues in seconding the nomination of

                 Greg Serio.

                            We had him in our committee.  And

                 as a member of the Insurance Committee, I look

                 forward to working very closely with him.  And

                 I don't want him as an opponent.  I want him

                 on my side.

                            And I congratulate Senator Dunne

                 for weaning Mr. Serio.  Martinez is now the -

                 I think the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles,

                 and he also tutelaged Mike Balboni.  So two of

                 three successes isn't bad.

                            (Laughter.)





                                                          6947



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Again, I

                 congratulate you, and I look forward to

                 working very closely with you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I don't want to have the

                 distinction of the only member in the chamber

                 not rising to second this nomination.

                            I too want to say that I have had

                 the pleasure of working with Greg and his

                 agency on a number of issues over the past few

                 years.  Binghamton and the Southern Tier is

                 proud to house several major companies.  And I

                 know that Greg's work with those companies,

                 along with the work of his department, has

                 helped them not only to insure the people of

                 New York State but also helped them to do

                 what's good for business and industry and

                 watch them grow and prosper so that this state

                 can continue its economic resurgence.

                            So like my colleagues, Madam

                 President, I too salute the Governor's

                 appointment.  It is another outstanding

                 appointment that he sends us.





                                                          6948



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Ada Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            Ditto on all that's been said today

                 in reference to Mr. Serio.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Is there any other Senator that

                 wishes to speak on the confirmation?

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Gregory Serio as Superintendent of

                 Insurance.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Gregory

                 Serio is hereby confirmed as Superintendent of

                 Insurance.

                            And joining the new Superintendent

                 of Insurance is Linda Serio, his wife.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Also





                                                          6949



                 accompanying the new superintendent is his

                 mother, Jane Serio; his father and

                 mother-in-law, Robert and Lorraine Albrecht.

                            And our congratulations and best

                 wishes to you.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time recognize Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

                 you, Madam President.  I would like unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Numbers 445 and 652.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So

                 noted.  Without objection, so noted.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if you could return to motions and resolutions

                 and recognize Senator Dollinger for the motion

                 we've all been waiting for once again.





                                                          6950



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I know it seems like Yogi

                 Berra, it's deja vu all over again.

                            But I'd like to give notice,

                 pursuant to Rule XI, that I will move an

                 amendment to the Senate Rules, adding a new

                 rule, XV, to set ethical standards for

                 members, officers, and employees of the

                 Senate.

                            I would simply ask that that be

                 filed in the Journal as required, Madam

                 President.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Received

                 and will be filed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 Senator Dollinger mentioned Yogi Berra.  There

                 was also a movie "Groundhog Day."  So it could

                 be perhaps related to that too.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    But would you





                                                          6951



                 please recognize Senator Paterson.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, may I remind the members of the

                 Minority that following session there will be

                 an immediate meeting of the Minority,

                 immediate, in the Majority Conference Room,

                 Room 314.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    As a

                 reminder, there's an immediate conference of

                 the Minority in the Minority Conference Room,

                 314.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I believe

                 there's a privileged resolution at the desk by

                 Senator Morahan.  I ask that the title be read

                 and move for its immediate adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 Morahan, legislative resolution honoring Inez





                                                          6952



                 Niblo upon the occasion of her designation for

                 special recognition by The Friends of Good

                 Counsel on May 11, 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All those in

                 favor say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 those opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 resolution is carried.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 is there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 no housekeeping at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    There being no

                 further business, I move we adjourn until

                 Monday, May 14th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening

                 days being legislative days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Monday, May 14th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening

                 days being legislative days.





                                                          6953



                            (Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)