Regular Session - May 21, 2001

                                                              7646



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                                     May 21, 2001

                                        3:15 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          7647



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 please come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    In the absence of

                 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of

                 silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Sunday, May 20, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, May 19,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.





                                                          7648



                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Kuhl, I wish

                 to call up his bill, Print Number 3071,

                 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at

                 the desk.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 286, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3071, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will call the roll upon reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          7649



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    I now offer the

                 following amendments.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendments

                 are received, Senator.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, amendments are offered to the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills.

                            Sponsored by Senator Marcellino,

                 page 18, Calendar Number 363, Senate Print

                 Number 392A.

                            Senator Seward, page 32, Calendar

                 Number 572, Senate Print Number 4372.

                            Senator Bonacic, page number 33,

                 Calendar Number 585, Senate Print Number 3581.

                            Senator Maltese, page number 42,

                 Calendar Number 679, Senate Print Number

                 3122A.

                            Senator Maltese, page number 62,

                 Calendar Number 891, Senate Print Number 3349.

                            Senator Padavan, page number 68,

                 Calendar Number 946, Senate Print Number 5.





                                                          7650



                            Senator Goodman, page number 65,

                 Calendar Number 920, Senate Print Number

                 3956A.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendments

                 are received, Senator Fuschillo, and -

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I now move

                 that these bills retain their place on the

                 order of third reading.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    And they will

                 retain their place on the order of third

                 reading.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there's a privileged resolution at the desk by

                 Senator DeFrancisco.  I ask that the title be

                 read and move for its immediate adoption.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary





                                                          7651



                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

                 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution Number

                 1946, honoring Brian P. McLane upon the

                 occasion of his induction into the National

                 Hall of Fame for Persons with Disabilities.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, thank

                 you, Madam President.

                            Today we have among us a member of

                 the Hall of Fame, a fine person by the name of

                 Brian McLane, Assistant Commissioner of VESID.

                            I've known Brian for many, many

                 years.  And I know we had Disability Awareness

                 Week last week, but this other honor was

                 planned by the Assembly and ourselves for

                 today to recognize Brian, because he was

                 inducted into the National Hall of Fame for

                 Persons with Disabilities.  And what's

                 incredible is only five people a year have

                 been inducted into this particular

                 organization and this Hall of Fame, including

                 Franklin D. Roosevelt and Helen Keller and

                 many, many others that are on the resolution.





                                                          7652



                            I've known Brian for many years.  I

                 know him most as an avid Syracuse University

                 basketball, football, and everything else fan.

                 He'd be a baseball fan if the university

                 wasn't as shortsighted as to eliminate

                 baseball.  But a great sports person.  In

                 fact, he's coached on the high school and

                 semipro levels.  And he's a tough coach and a

                 very knowledgeable coach.

                            In the resolution are so many

                 things that he has done that I really cannot

                 list all of them today for you.  But it's

                 really amazing when you think about it how

                 Brian has accomplished so much with what other

                 people would think would be a disability.  And

                 there is nothing that he hasn't done or he's

                 deprived himself of, or deprived us of,

                 because of the disability that some people

                 perceive.

                            I'm very, very proud to stand up

                 and recognize Brian and to congratulate him

                 and to tell him how much I feel about him and

                 the things that he's done.  He's just a great,

                 great individual who's done great things for

                 this state and for many, many people.





                                                          7653



                            So, Brian, congratulations.  I'm

                 honored to know a member of the Hall of Fame.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the resolution.  All in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

                 adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go to the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 223, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3148, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 conditional hiring.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          7654



                 295, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1053,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 304, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3328A, an

                 act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 306, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2352, an

                 act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay that

                 aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 353, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 2368,

                 an act to amend Chapter 138 of the Laws of

                 1984.





                                                          7655



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 400, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 847, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 510, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3901,

                 an act authorizing the assessor of the County

                 of Nassau.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 515, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2221A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.





                                                          7656



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 575, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 5116, an

                 act to amend the Public Housing Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 584, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 3548,

                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

                 Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay that

                 aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 605, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4693, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 646, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3543, an





                                                          7657



                 act to amend the Penal Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay the bill

                 aside, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 648, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3678, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 715, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4127, an

                 act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 736, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4680A, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid





                                                          7658



                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 771, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3911,

                 an act to authorize.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 800, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 729, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 802, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 2117, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 816, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4556, an

                 act to amend the Military Law.





                                                          7659



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 933, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3935, an

                 act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            If we could go to the controversial

                 calendar and begin with Calendar Number 802,

                 by Senator Maziarz.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar Number 802.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 802, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 2117, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 increasing.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.





                                                          7660



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This bill would allow the annual

                 increases in Social Security benefits to be

                 calculated not to count against any senior

                 individuals who want to take part in the Green

                 Thumb employment program.

                            Thank you.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, would Senator Maziarz -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    -- yield for a

                 question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Surely, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I

                 couldn't quite hear your explanation.  I'll

                 take the ten-second version, if you -

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Okay.  The





                                                          7661



                 income limitation to the Green Thumb program,

                 which is a senior employment program, the

                 income limitations would be increased to take

                 into effect the increase in the case of

                 seniors -- mostly in the instances of an

                 increase in Social Security benefits.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay.  Madam

                 President, now I'm sure what my question would

                 be, if Senator Maziarz would yield.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, I would.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, would

                 you please let us know what the fiscal

                 implications of this piece of legislation

                 would be.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    There would be

                 absolutely no fiscal implications to the State

                 of New York.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    All right.

                 Thank you, Madam President.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?





                                                          7662



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 5 -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos -

                 the Secretary will read.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Read 510,

                 please.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 510, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3901,

                 an act authorizing the assessor of the County

                 of Nassau.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This legislation would authorize

                 the assessor of the county to accept an





                                                          7663



                 application for exemption from real property

                 taxes from the Yeshiva Torah Mitzion of North

                 Merrick.

                            Madam President, the property was

                 purchased after the deadline of filing.  The

                 refund would be minimal:  approximately

                 $1,000.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, with your indulgence and Senator

                 Fuschillo's indulgence, can we lay this aside

                 temporarily?  Because it's Senator Dollinger

                 who is interested, and he's in the Finance

                 Committee.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

                 do you have any objection?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 we've heard from Senator Dollinger on this on

                 numerous occasions, and certainly will extend

                 the courtesy.  But as we go through the end of

                 session, we know that there are going to be

                 committee meetings met.  This issue has been

                 discussed in terms of the assessment issues in

                 Nassau County almost to the point of

                 nauseousness.





                                                          7664



                            So I would just suggest that we

                 have to continue at some point with the

                 calendar, but certainly will extend that

                 courtesy to Senator Dollinger, if it's okay

                 with Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No objection,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside temporarily.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Oh.  Thank

                 you, Madam President.

                            I just wanted to point out that

                 even though we have discussed it before, one

                 of the reasons that it sometimes appears that

                 there's less attendance is that we have these

                 meetings called off the floor and it's -- you

                 know, it's just a little difficult for the

                 members who want to discuss the bill.  So it's

                 not that Senator Dollinger's not interested -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, the bill

                 has already been laid aside temporarily.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Oh.  Well,

                 thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.





                                                          7665



                            The Secretary will read.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Calendar Number

                 771, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar Number 771.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 771, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3911,

                 an act to authorize the Mesorah Foundation of

                 Long Island, Incorporated.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Marcellino, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    If Senator

                 Duane would be willing to just wait a couple

                 of moments, this is another bill that Senator

                 Dollinger asked when he left to have laid

                 aside, if we could, because there is a Finance

                 Committee meeting going on.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            Senator Marcellino, do you have any

                 objection?





                                                          7666



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Do you want to

                 lay it aside temporarily?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I have no

                 problem laying it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside temporarily.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If you would

                 call up Calendar Number 736, by Senator

                 Larkin.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar Number 736.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 736, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4680A, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law, in relation to hunt

                 meetings.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            Senator Paterson, this is a bill we

                 did last year.  It repeals a portion of the

                 Racing and Wagering Law which requires that a





                                                          7667



                 $25 license be obtained from the Racing and

                 Wagering Board before conducting a hunting

                 meeting in which no bets occur.  It also

                 repeals the limitation on the number of meets

                 that are currently set at ten.  Last year,

                 three of these meets were licensed.

                            This is not a license to hunt.

                 This is just a license where they go out and

                 run.  It's all done on private property.  It's

                 similar to like a steeplechase, in that horses

                 and their riders race on a natural course

                 against time.  At hunt meetings there is no

                 hunting of foxes or other animals.  It is

                 merely a test of a horse and a rider's

                 horsemanship skill against time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I think Senator Larkin answered my

                 question, but if he'd be willing to yield.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I

                 heard you correctly that there's no hunting of





                                                          7668



                 foxes in this -

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    This is strictly

                 the skills of the horse and the skills of the

                 horseman, in that it's a race against time.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Larkin would continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    And, Senator,

                 you are familiar with the history of this

                 legislation?  Because I'm not.  In other

                 words -

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Well, years and

                 years ago when it was -- what happened was

                 these events were highlighted and there was a

                 $25 fee.  And there was also a requirement

                 that somebody from the Racing and Wagering

                 Board be present at these.

                            Years and years ago, when you were

                 a little boy and I was a little boy, they had





                                                          7669



                 these races, and it was a sport, it was a

                 spectator.  But during the last two years,

                 there's only been three permits requested.

                 And to have them -- and they were not all-day

                 permits, like before -- to take somebody from

                 the Racing and Wagering Board from some other

                 duties to watch this, it's not a money-maker.

                 When you figure there's three races at $75,

                 it's hardly worth the time and effort of

                 somebody to be out there doing it.

                            Again, there was some talk here

                 last year, a question about hunting little

                 foxes.  There's no hunting of foxes.  This is

                 strictly a rider getting on a horse and

                 subjecting himself to see how fast he and the

                 horse can go from Point A to Point B.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Therefore,

                 Madam President, if Senator Larkin will

                 continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Paterson.





                                                          7670



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Absent the

                 wagering, there's really no -

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    There's no

                 wagering at all, Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Right.  So

                 there's no reason to have anyone from the

                 Pari-Mutuel Board in attendance?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    There's no

                 racing, no wagering.  The only thing is is

                 that what they had when they started this,

                 that they always said a member of the Racing

                 and Wagering Board should be present.  But

                 there's no authorization for any gambling

                 whatsoever in this event.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Larkin would continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    At the point

                 years ago that you were referring to -- you

                 know, back when we were kids -





                                                          7671



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    When we were

                 young.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    -- the

                 question was in those days, I suppose it was

                 wagering, and that's why they had Racing and

                 Wagering Board presence at those events.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Well, that's why

                 the Racing and Wagering Board asked us to do

                 this bill, because they say they feel that

                 it's not a proper utilization of their staff

                 time.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Right.  Then,

                 Madam President, if Senator Larkin would

                 continue to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Larkin,

                 will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I think what

                 I'm just trying to figure out -- and maybe

                 it's just me -- is why they had it there in

                 the first place.  Or has there been some

                 change in the way that they had the hunting





                                                          7672



                 meetings from the way it was eons ago?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Well, you know,

                 all you can look at is the records of the

                 Racing and Wagering Board that this is held on

                 private property, it's part of a sports club.

                 It isn't just anything -- the licensing was

                 done to sports clubs that handled these races.

                            But there is no money exchange in

                 it.  There's no chasing of animals, foxes, as

                 it was brought up last year.  The sole purpose

                 here was a sport to see the time that a rider

                 and his horse could compete from Point A to

                 Point B.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 on the bill, Senator.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I assume that

                 the fiscal impact is nominal because of the

                 $25 charge that Senator Larkin referred to.

                 And I don't know if I ever really figured out

                 whether or not there used to be wagering at

                 these hunting meetings, but there isn't now.

                 So I can certainly see why they would not need

                 the presence of someone from the Racing and





                                                          7673



                 Wagering Board in attendance.

                            And the fact that they are not only

                 held during the day but held at other times

                 certainly probably diminishes from the work

                 that the board could otherwise be doing.  So

                 understanding that there's no actual hunting

                 going on, and that there's no wagering, I can

                 see why we can move to the last section, or

                 any other member that would like to speak,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            May we call Calendar 605, please.





                                                          7674



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read Calendar Number 605.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 605, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4693, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath, an

                 explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill simply provides that two

                 or more municipalities may agree to work

                 together to establish business improvement

                 districts which would be for the benefit of

                 both municipalities.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane, with a question.





                                                          7675



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm wondering if

                 the sponsor has had municipalities in mind who

                 have asked to have this bill drafted.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Yes, I do, Senator

                 Duane.  In my district there are adjoining

                 towns that -- well, they actually adjoin each

                 other and almost adjoin the city of Buffalo.

                 It's what you might call an "edge city" kind

                 of community.  And Cheektowaga and Amherst

                 have asked if they could join in this.

                            It's an older community in both

                 towns with the strip-type business districts

                 lining the main streets.  And they're looking

                 to interact as those main streets try to

                 redevelop and reinvent themselves.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath, do

                 you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I continue to

                 yield.





                                                          7676



                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Right now, in

                 both of those cities are commercial properties

                 taxed as the same category?  In other words,

                 is there similar taxation categories for

                 commercial properties in both cities?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Yes, both towns,

                 the town of Cheektowaga and the town of

                 Amherst, have similar tax structures on their

                 commercial properties.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I continue to

                 yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And are the

                 properties valued for tax purposes in a

                 similar manner?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I believe, Senator

                 Duane, if I can see where you're going with





                                                          7677



                 your line of reasoning, that would be part of

                 the arrangement that they would have to work

                 out with each other if there was an inequity,

                 so that they would be able to share equally as

                 the business improvement district was

                 developed.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I do yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Just to -- that

                 is a direction that I was going in.  But I'm

                 trying to determine if, say, commercial

                 properties in Amherst were taxed at a higher

                 rate, would that mean that their contribution

                 to the BID would be lower to equalize how much

                 of a tax each property from each town was

                 paying?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Yeah, there will

                 be -- there would be a plan for the district

                 that would be agreed to by both town boards.





                                                          7678



                 And my expectation is that they would agree to

                 a pro rata arrangement.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, will you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Who would be

                 responsible for collecting the revenue, the

                 additional revenue?

                            SENATOR RATH:    The tax receiver

                 from each of those towns would have to be the

                 ones that would collect the revenue.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, will you

                 yield?

                            You may proceed, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And they would

                 pay into the -- sort of the corporation or the

                 business improvement district pool, then?





                                                          7679



                            SENATOR RATH:    My expectation

                 would be that there would be improvements that

                 would be equally important for both sides of

                 the street.  If can I give you a for-instance,

                 there is an island that is foursquare in the

                 middle of a very large thoroughfare that's

                 between both of them.  The DOT is involved to

                 some extent with street widening.  But this

                 triangular-shaped island with thoroughfares on

                 three sides of it -- it's a triangle, it's

                 pretty obvious -- that is one of the

                 improvements.

                            When it has wheelchair access and

                 it's improved and has some plantings and

                 instead of just concrete and asphalt, it will

                 make a little haven for people who want to

                 cross this major intersection.

                            And so that kind of improvement

                 will be a benefit to both towns.  It's

                 foursquare, right on the border.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, will you

                 yield?





                                                          7680



                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is the BID going

                 to have its board of directors divided equally

                 between the two towns, or will it be based

                 upon the financial commitment each is making

                 to the business improvement district.

                            SENATOR RATH:    The plans,

                 Senator, are not that far along, but I think

                 your point is well taken.  They haven't gotten

                 that far because they needed the legislation

                 before they went that far.

                            But I would tell you that these two

                 towns are the two largest bedroom communities

                 in Erie County.  They're both over a hundred

                 thousand people, and both are both extremely

                 active and enthusiastic about this.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, will you

                 yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,





                                                          7681



                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I come to this debate with a great

                 interest and knowledge of business improvement

                 districts.  The district that I represented in

                 the New York City Council had more business

                 improvement districts than anyone else's

                 district.  And the same is true as a State

                 Senator, I have more than any of my other

                 colleagues in the Senate.

                            And I have to say that they all

                 came with some controversy.  So that's one of

                 the reasons why I'm interested in how this is

                 going to work.

                            Has there already been an election

                 among the property owners in the business

                 improvement district to go into a business

                 improvement district?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Both towns have

                 very active community groups that are working

                 along the border areas.

                            And an election as such for the

                 representatives of these community groups, I'm

                 not exactly sure when they turn over their





                                                          7682



                 leadership.  But they have been after this for

                 at least two or three years.  They've been

                 looking to get this opportunity.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Do you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I will yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    She

                 continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Just, then, for

                 clarification, does this envisioned business

                 improvement district, does it demand an

                 election before it's created similar to the

                 way business improvement districts are done in

                 New York City?

                            In New York City, a

                 larger-than-majority number of property owners

                 had to actually vote to approve the business

                 improvement district.  I'm wondering if that's

                 the way it's supposed to be in this case or if

                 that's something that's going to happen down

                 the line or is that not what's happening at

                 all.





                                                          7683



                            SENATOR RATH:    Senator, we're not

                 that far in terms of community groups electing

                 or not electing people to represent them

                 business-district-wise.  But I would say to

                 you that both town boards unanimously have

                 entered into the activity.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    In that it's the

                 property owners who would have to pay the

                 freight, so to speak, for the business

                 improvement district -- they're the ones who

                 would have a surcharge on their property

                 taxes -- I respect that the town boards have

                 already made that vote and the civic

                 associations or the chambers of commerce have

                 done it already.

                            But have the people who will

                 actually be paying the additional revenue





                                                          7684



                 voted on this, or are they going to vote on

                 it?  Is this part of the legislation which

                 will create this business improvement

                 district?

                            SENATOR RATH:    The people who

                 would be involved, as you're pointing out,

                 with the additional costs wanted to have the

                 legislation in place before they could go

                 forward with the other part of it.  They felt

                 they could not do that part of it until they

                 had this part of it.  It's one of the old

                 cart-and-horse discussions.

                            But I would say to you that it was

                 the people on both sides of that border

                 between those two towns that came to us in

                 order to get this legislation presented.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            SENATOR RATH:    I continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    She

                 continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Will the cost of

                 the surcharge, if you will, be incurred





                                                          7685



                 completely by the business owners, or will -

                 I'm sorry, the owners of the commercial

                 properties?  Or will that cost be passed along

                 to the tenants in the commercial properties?

                            SENATOR RATH:    The area that

                 we're talking about is, generally speaking,

                 commercial.  But the town boards, the two of

                 them, would have to make that recommendation

                 once they start into the development of an

                 intermunicipal agreement.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    There was some

                 disconnect -- not a disconnect, a discontent.

                 I have my dises confused -- a discontent among

                 the business owners who rented space who were

                 tenants in the commercial buildings that they

                 didn't have a vote on whether or not to be a

                 part of a business improvement district yet





                                                          7686



                 they were being stuck with the cost of having

                 the business improvement district which only

                 increased the property values for the business

                 owners and didn't do much for the business

                 owners except to raise their rents.

                            So I'm wondering whether the

                 chambers of commerce or the community groups

                 that are behind this business improvement

                 district have begun to look at this prickly

                 issue.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Senator, I think

                 your point is well taken.  But the areas that

                 we're talking about are so interested in

                 providing a new dimension to this community

                 that they feel that the only way that it's

                 going to keep it from -- this community, this

                 edge-city area from deteriorating and leaving

                 lots of empty strip-plaza areas that we would

                 consider very deteriorating on the edge of the

                 city, they feel -- they've done some studies.

                 They feel that they can pick up a great deal

                 of foot traffic, because the neighborhood was

                 that way at one time.

                            But because of the burgeoning

                 outer-ring suburbs, if you will -- this is an





                                                          7687



                 inner-ring suburb, very close, to within a

                 couple of blocks of the city of Buffalo.  They

                 felt that -- everyone that we have talked to,

                 and as I said, this has been on the agenda for

                 at least two years I know of, maybe more, that

                 everyone who has been a part of it agrees that

                 this is the way to help this area.

                            But the two town boards will make

                 up a specific compact, because this area is

                 not the whole town of Amherst and the whole

                 town of Cheektowaga.  This is the

                 Harlem-Kensington-Cleveland business district.

                 And there is a businessman's association that

                 is already jointly involved with the two

                 towns -- not the Amherst Chamber of Commerce

                 or the Cheektowaga Chamber of Commerce, this

                 is this particular business association.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  If the sponsor would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    She

                 continues to yield.





                                                          7688



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Along in this

                 area, are there commercial buildings that have

                 residential tenants living above the stores or

                 that sort of thing?  I'm trying to envision

                 what it looks like.

                            SENATOR RATH:    If there are,

                 Senator, it's only three or four.  And I might

                 even be generous with that.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Will residential

                 owners and tenants be exempted from paying the

                 surcharge for the business improvement

                 district?

                            SENATOR RATH:    It's a very

                 commercial district.  And if there are tenants

                 that are there, the town boards will hear

                 about it on either side of that border, and

                 the town boards will make that determination





                                                          7689



                 in this compact.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            SENATOR RATH:    I continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I raise that

                 because we also had heated battles among

                 residential tenants who lived in coops or

                 above commercial buildings who didn't want to

                 have to pay for something that they didn't get

                 to vote on.  So just sort of a beware.

                            Is this an area where there's an

                 increase or a problem with crime?  And the

                 reason I ask that, and I'll follow up with a

                 second question, is it envisioned that part of

                 the revenue for the BID will go towards

                 security aside from the town police forces?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Not necessarily,

                 Senator, no.  There's a -- the incidence of

                 crime in this area would be no different than

                 many other areas throughout both towns.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,





                                                          7690



                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            SENATOR RATH:    I continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath?

                            Senator Rath continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    The same is true

                 of -- one of the issues we had as well was

                 that many of us felt that the security forces

                 and the -- or the -- even without a security

                 force, just the banding together of the

                 businesses in part made it difficult for

                 homeless people and poor people to be in the

                 district.  I'm wondering whether that's

                 something which has been thought about or

                 whether there's a social service component

                 that's going to be part of the business

                 improvement district.

                            SENATOR RATH:    This is really not

                 a consideration in this particular community.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          7691



                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I know that the

                 sponsor mentioned one particular greening of a

                 triangle along the roadway.  But I'm just

                 wondering if she could enlighten me as to what

                 other kinds of improvements the business

                 improvement district is going to do.  Is it

                 advertising or, you know, how to do windows

                 better?  What kinds of services is the

                 business improvement district going to provide

                 for its members?

                            SENATOR RATH:    The plan is

                 incomplete.  I brought to your attention the

                 issue of the greening and the wheelchair

                 access and the triangle.  There is work going

                 on with the DOT in relation to the roadways.

                 One is a -- one of the roads that passes on

                 those three sides is a state highway and -- a

                 state road.  It's not really a highway.

                            And so once the opportunity is

                 there, what they're going to be doing is

                 looking for the improvement of foot traffic





                                                          7692



                 and the development of a neighborhood attitude

                 throughout the three or four -- no, it's five

                 or six streets that come together, because

                 there's -- it's more than just a plain square

                 intersection.  There is another street that

                 comes across.  So there are an extra set of

                 corners and the crossings are tricky.

                            And so the DOT I know will pick up

                 as much of this as they can.  The towns will

                 pick up other parts of it.  And then this

                 business improvement district is hoping to

                 pick up yet again what can't be covered or

                 picked up anywhere else.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I am somewhat

                 intrigued that wheelchair accessibility is

                 needed for the island for a disabled person to

                 across the road or an older person or, for





                                                          7693



                 that matter, a mom or dad pushing a stroller.

                 In that this is a state DOT road and in that

                 accessibility is a requirement under the

                 state's compliance with ADA, has DOT for some

                 reason declined to make the island

                 wheelchair-accessible?

                            SENATOR RATH:    I think you're

                 pointing out something that's very true.  But

                 there may already be wheelchair access into

                 this triangle.  And the side of the triangle

                 that's a state highway would not need the

                 wheelchair access.  It would come from the

                 sides because of the demeanor of the

                 intersection.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield, Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    One of the other

                 grievances that some property owners have

                 raised against business improvement districts





                                                          7694



                 is that they are almost impossible to

                 liquidate.  They're easier to put together and

                 harder to take apart.

                            I'm wondering whether it's

                 envisioned that this business improvement

                 district could be dismantled.

                            SENATOR RATH:    If there were such

                 a consideration or a request at that time, the

                 town boards would come back and ask us, and we

                 would take it apart.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And through you,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    And so like some

                 messy divorces we've recently seen in the

                 papers, what if one side wanted the BID to

                 dissolve and the other side didn't want the

                 BID to dissolve?  Would that not leave the

                 sponsor in an almost Solomonic spot in terms

                 of what to do with legislation?

                            SENATOR RATH:    We're not that far

                 along, Senator, with all of this.  This is a

                 request from two towns in my district.





                                                          7695



                            SENATOR DUANE:    And one final

                 question, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, will you yield for one final question?

                            SENATOR RATH:    Surely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields for your final question,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm wondering if

                 there is precedence in the State of New York

                 for this to have happened and if this

                 legislation would apply to any two

                 municipalities that wanted to join forces for

                 a BID.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Learned counsel

                 has advised that we are not aware of this

                 happening before.  But I might add as we go

                 forward -- and the term "smart growth" has

                 come up so many times from both sides of the

                 of the aisle, "quality communities" from both

                 sides of the aisle -- I think what we're

                 seeing here is an effort by two communities to

                 provide quality -- quality of life, quality of

                 neighborhood.  And this is their way of trying

                 to move forward with that.





                                                          7696



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.  Thank

                 you.

                            Madam President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            The issue of business improvement

                 districts, as I mentioned before, is something

                 which has been of great interest to me.  The

                 idea that property owners are willing to pay

                 more in taxes provided that they actually see

                 the services that are being provided really

                 provides us all, I think, with a very good

                 lesson.  And that is that people are willing

                 to pay more in taxes provided that they see

                 the results of that revenue being collected.

                            Sometimes what we find,

                 unfortunately, is that those businesses which

                 are already in pretty good shape are willing

                 to spend a little bit more in taxes to get

                 better services.  But for those extremely

                 marginal businesses that don't really have any

                 kind of margin or any substantial margin of

                 profit, it would be an enormous hardship to

                 pay more in property taxes.





                                                          7697



                            And so the businesses that are

                 doing well get to do better with business

                 improvement districts, and the marginal

                 businesses that can't afford to pay any more

                 end up being at a disadvantage to the other

                 businesses that have these improvement

                 districts.

                            We've also found cases where

                 business improvement districts can run amuck

                 and in fact become a little government in and

                 of themselves and really operate outside the

                 general checks and balances that government

                 has.

                            I don't mean to cast aspersions on

                 all business improvement districts, but there

                 is a tendency when you have enough revenue

                 behind you to make decisions which may not be

                 in the best interests of everyone in a city

                 but in fact only be in the best interests of

                 those who are able to afford to pay additional

                 money in terms of property taxes.

                            And of course the property owners,

                 when they do get on board for business

                 improvement districts, nine times out of 10

                 end up with more valuable property.





                                                          7698



                            There is also, philosophically, a

                 certain admission of the failure of local

                 government if we think that business

                 improvement districts are what we should be

                 doing.  We basically have to acknowledge that

                 cities and towns are not able to really serve

                 the needs of their business community and

                 that's why these outside government

                 organizations have to be started.

                            A case might be made to have a

                 limited life span of a business improvement

                 district where perhaps some experimentation

                 would happen on how best to supply services

                 but have that disbanded when it's shown how

                 government could be able to provide those

                 services.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Duane, will you suffer an interruption,

                 please.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Thank you for the interruption,

                 Senator.

                            There will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Rules Committee in the Senate Majority





                                                          7699



                 Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 the Senate Majority Conference Room.

                            Continue on, Senator Duane.  Thank

                 you.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Well, Madam

                 President, I don't want anyone to miss the

                 pearls of wisdom, but I'll suffer on anyway.

                            There is also the issue of

                 sanitation.  For instance, one of the major

                 occupations of the workers for a business

                 improvement district is to do additional

                 sanitation.  But if everybody in a city is

                 paying taxes and only those who can afford a

                 little bit more are getting additional

                 services, that doesn't really seem

                 appropriate.

                            Every business, every business in

                 the city really deserves to have its garbage

                 picked up and its sanitation services

                 performed at the same level.  And if

                 government can't handle that, then government

                 needs to raise the taxes for everyone rather

                 than only allowing those who can afford it to





                                                          7700



                 raise taxes to make their business areas

                 cleaner.

                            So my inclination is to vote yes on

                 this bill because, as the sponsor has very

                 thoroughly explained, this bill will just

                 allow them to move forward on discussions.

                 But I do vote yes, or I will be voting yes

                 with the proviso that while in theory business

                 improvement districts seem like a win-win, in

                 fact they're very complicated and actually

                 speak to the heart of what it is that we think

                 government should be doing in our towns and

                 cities.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Any other Senator wishing to speak

                 on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce





                                                          7701



                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would you please call Calendar 646

                 at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Clerk

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 646, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3543, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 illegal possession.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    What this bill

                 does, or proposed statute, is a correction of

                 our existing law that parallels a change in

                 federal law dealing with possession of a

                 vehicle identification number.

                            In 1992 we added a section of law

                 that made reference to the federal statute.

                 That statute was changed, and we're now





                                                          7702



                 complying with the federal statute so that

                 we're both making reference to the same

                 federal law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If Senator Padavan would

                 yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan, will you yield for Senator Paterson?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, in

                 1992 when the federal statute was changed, can

                 you explain to us what the change was?  Or was

                 it just a technical change of the number?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    It was a

                 technical change relative to the number.  As

                 far as I can find out, there was no change in

                 substance as it related to the illegal

                 possession of a VIN.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yet that's

                 what kind of confused me.  Because earlier,

                 Senator, I think you said that the law was





                                                          7703



                 repealed and then reinstated.  Was that how

                 they effected the change?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    No, what I said

                 was that we amended our Penal Law in 1992

                 which referenced a federal statute, which was

                 specifically designated as Section 1901.

                 However, two years later, in 1994, the federal

                 government changed that statute, repealed it,

                 and replaced it by another section.  And so we

                 are conforming to that new designation.

                            To my knowledge, however, the

                 substance of the federal statute remains the

                 same.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If Senator Padavan would

                 yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator,

                 Senator Dollinger has spoken on this bill

                 before, and he has a suggestion.  I know the

                 suggestion, but I've never heard your response





                                                          7704



                 to it, is that to stop this from happening

                 again -- which I assume it could, just because

                 of the technical way in which the federal law

                 is written -- would it be better for us just

                 to reference the federal law, since it's

                 exact, and not necessarily the specific number

                 of the law?  Or would you be willing to hope

                 that this just never comes up again?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    My response to

                 you is that I'm advised by counsel that in

                 terms of applicability and the judicial

                 process, that it's more effective and correct

                 to make specific reference to the federal

                 statute by its designation, rather than

                 allowing for any confusion to take place.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    And a final

                 question for Senator Padavan, if he's willing

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Padavan, will you yield for Senator Paterson's

                 final question?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    I certainly

                 will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.





                                                          7705



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So, Senator,

                 this is the standard process?  In other words,

                 they just don't -- they actually, as your

                 sponsor's memo points out, they actually

                 repeal and then replace the law in the federal

                 system?

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    That is my

                 understanding of their process.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Now it is

                 mine.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Is there

                 any other Senator who wishes to speak on the

                 bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          7706



                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 304,

                 by Senator Saland.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Clerk

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 304, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3328A, an

                 act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Saland, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill would merely permit the

                 Howland Public Library, which is located in

                 the city of Poughkeepsie, to finance

                 construction of a new library through the

                 Dormitory Authority, New York State Dormitory

                 Authority.  The bill merely adds the name of

                 the Howland Public Library to a list of about

                 ten or so that currently have availed

                 themselves of that opportunity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          7707



                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President, if Senator Saland would yield for a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Saland, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

                 you.  Senator Saland, I don't think that I

                 have any problem with this.  I just would like

                 to know, just how exactly does this work?  How

                 does a local not-for-profit facility access

                 this program through the Dormitory Authority?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    They are a

                 public library.  I'm not sure if -- they're

                 not -- I don't think they're a 501(c)(3) if

                 the implication was that they're a

                 not-for-profit.  I think that they're a

                 publicly funded library.

                            And we do this for 8-53 schools, we

                 do this for a number of other entities.  This

                 merely affords them the opportunity to avail





                                                          7708



                 themselves of the financing at such point and

                 place and time if in fact it does happen -

                 because it doesn't designate an area.  They

                 may not have purchased or have an agreement to

                 locate at a particular site.

                            It merely gives them the

                 opportunity to avail themselves of the

                 financing at rates and under terms as shall be

                 negotiated and would be available depending

                 upon the conditions that exist, if that be six

                 months from now, eight months from now, a year

                 from now, whenever.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes.  Madam

                 President, if Senator Saland would continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery, thank you.

                            Senator Saland, will you continue

                 to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.





                                                          7709



                            Senator Saland, I'm just wondering,

                 I see these bills come through and we vote on

                 them and pass them fairly regularly for

                 different types of facilities -- some YMs,

                 YWs, now a library, and so forth and so on.

                            My question is why -- Madam

                 President, through you -- why is it that we

                 have to do this through the legislative

                 process?  Is there not -- or could we not or

                 should we not establish a uniform procedure so

                 that all of the different parts of the state

                 have equal access to this process?  Because I

                 have a Y, I have a couple of Y -- a YM and a

                 YW in my district.  They would not necessarily

                 have access to this process, because I'm a

                 Democrat and no bill is ever going to pass in

                 this house on my behalf.

                            So I would like to know, could we

                 as a Legislature establish a uniform process

                 which would take this out of the political

                 process in the way that we do it now?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Madam President,

                 I am not certain as to whether each of these

                 libraries that's listed here is located in

                 whether they be Republican or Democratic





                                                          7710



                 districts, Republican of either house or

                 Democratic of either house.

                            Certainly the process is one which

                 is controlled by the Dormitory Authority.

                 This merely enables people to make application

                 and go through their process.  I wouldn't be

                 so bold as to say that you might not be able

                 to, through whatever introduction you might

                 make, secure funding, provided that your

                 not-for-profit is an appropriate candidate and

                 would otherwise be eligible.

                            You seem to be aware that this has

                 occurred for YMCAs or YWCAs.  I don't recall

                 seeing such bills, you know, to provide that

                 type of financing for those type of

                 institutions.  I'll be very happy to stand

                 corrected if they are.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right.

                 Madam President, just one last question,

                 through you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Saland, will you yield for one last question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The





                                                          7711



                 Senator yields for a last question.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you.

                            My last question is, does this

                 process add to in any way the debt service

                 that the state is responsible for?  Or is this

                 completely -- the entity on whose behalf the

                 Dormitory is borrowing is entirely responsible

                 for the debt on this program?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    This is not a

                 state general obligation.  In fact, the

                 Dormitory Authority floats or issues its own

                 paper.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I see.  All

                 right.  Thank you.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    And obviously,

                 whomever the entity is, if they are in fact

                 eligible, would have to pay back what -

                 whatever it is that they had borrowed and

                 financed through the Dormitory Authority.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right.

                 Thank you.

                            Briefly on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery, on the bill.





                                                          7712



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes,

                 certainly I think that this is perhaps a most

                 efficient way for a local library or any

                 library to be financed for their construction.

                            I would, however, hope that Senator

                 Saland, along with the Majority Leader and

                 members on the Republican side, would consider

                 establishing a more uniform program or process

                 whereby our local facilities that serve large

                 numbers of people that are very important and

                 key to constituents of ours could have access

                 to this process so that in districts like

                 mine, where facilities are in very, very dire

                 need of renovation and reconstruction, new

                 buildings, that they could also have the same

                 access as a facility in Senator Saland's

                 district or Senator Goodman's district or

                 Senator Morahan's district or any of the

                 Republicans who have needs as well as we do,

                 but we have needs and would like to have

                 access to this program.

                            So certainly I'm going to support

                 it, because I think it's important, Madam

                 President.  But I do think that we need to

                 modify this so it's more open and accessible





                                                          7713



                 to all of the citizens of the State of

                 New York.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 800,

                 by Senator Goodman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 800, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 729, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law, in





                                                          7714



                 relation to requirement.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, may I ask who requested it, if you

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.  No, Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Oh, did I?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson asked for an explanation, Senator

                 Goodman.  Would you be so kind?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you very

                 much.

                            This bill is one which has been

                 developed to amend the contract provisions in

                 the State Finance Law to prohibit a state

                 agency, the judiciary, or a state authority

                 from contracting with, continuing, or renewing

                 a contract with a contractor who has taxes due

                 and owing to the state.

                            In other words, a deadbeat on

                 taxes, if it be a corporation, is placed in

                 the position by this bill of not allowing





                                                          7715



                 itself to be given the opportunity to enter

                 into business with the state.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Goodman would be willing

                 to yield.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Always a

                 pleasure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            Senator, I certainly understand

                 what we're trying to accomplish here.  And I

                 would wish if you would enlighten us a little

                 bit about what the threshold for this is,

                 because I'm sure there could be nominal taxes

                 that the contractor might not fully be aware

                 and also a situation where there might be a

                 ministerial period by which taxes were not

                 paid back.

                            Or I'm even thinking of kind of a

                 de minimus situation where there's a technical

                 debt but the debt itself must have been from

                 some accident, so it's a minimal amount of





                                                          7716



                 money.

                            And so my question is, how does the

                 legislation try to avoid a situation where

                 someone is really not trying to evade their

                 obligations but is just in a situation they

                 might not have been aware of due to

                 recordkeeping?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, that's

                 obviated by provisions of this bill, which

                 says that if they are still in arrears after a

                 ten-day notification, that that's when the

                 bill becomes effective.  But prior to that,

                 there's no seizure, no cessation of

                 contractual relations.  In other words, you

                 get a ten-day warning.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay, very

                 good.  Thank you.

                            Madam President, if Senator Goodman

                 would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will.  I

                 consider this a blanket willingness to

                 continue.  You don't have to keep asking,

                 Senator.





                                                          7717



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I have blanket

                 immunity.  All right.

                            Senator -- through you, Madam

                 President -- I was wondering what information

                 you have about either the number of contracts

                 that the state involves in every year, but not

                 necessarily that.

                            I'm really looking more for the

                 percentage of those contractors that you think

                 fall within the ambit, the scope of this

                 legislation.  And, you know, just specifically

                 what the numbers of contractors who may right

                 now be operating, receiving taxpayer dollars

                 when they haven't paid their taxes.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, I

                 don't have an answer to that.  I don't know

                 and I'm not sure that information is readily

                 available.  But if you'd like, we can find out

                 for you.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay.  Thank

                 you, Madam President.  If Senator Goodman

                 would be -- yes, Senator Goodman would be

                 willing to yield, and so my -





                                                          7718



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    As I've so

                 indicated.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Then I think

                 what I'm just getting at -- the legislation is

                 an excellent idea, there's no doubt about

                 that.

                            But I think specifically what I

                 wanted to know, just in terms of the research

                 and the history of the legislation, is whether

                 or not this is something that was brought to

                 your attention because of the malfeasance of

                 many who were contracting or were not meeting

                 their obligations, or was it something that

                 certainly would be meritorious just based on

                 the equity of giving contracts preferences to

                 those who don't have the record of meeting

                 their obligations such as those that were not

                 preferred.

                            So what I'm really asking you is

                 whether this is something where there's been a

                 problem in the past where the obligations





                                                          7719



                 haven't been met by a number of contractors

                 still doing business with the state.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, as the

                 former finance commissioner of the City of

                 New York, charged with the responsibility of

                 collecting all the city taxes, it came to my

                 attention in that position that there were

                 innumerable instances in which this type of

                 problem arose.

                            I cannot give you a precise number,

                 but I think it's -- common sense has guided me

                 to the conclusion there's a sufficient number

                 so that -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    The -

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Are you able to

                 hear me, Senator?  I didn't quite finish my

                 sentence.  I just wanted to be sure you

                 weren't being distracted.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I'm sorry.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I think there's

                 a sufficient number so that it appeared

                 advisable, in the interests of good

                 housekeeping, to pass this measure.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    My final

                 question is -- it relates to -





                                                          7720



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you yield for a final question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    It relates to

                 any other observations that the Senator had

                 through his previous experience that we would

                 be holding up any contracting between the

                 state and any parties, in addition to the

                 failure to pay back arrears in terms of debt

                 to the state or, obviously, any kind of

                 criminal conduct that is currently under

                 investigation.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Quite the

                 contrary.  I think once the word is out that

                 you have an alert Tax Department which is

                 aware of people's arrearages and punishes them

                 in a manner that fits the transgression, that

                 this is a good thing for the state, that it

                 results in actually increasing the state's

                 ability to collect taxes, and thus assists the

                 fisc to become sounder on behalf of the

                 public.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          7721



                 Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, will the Senator yield to a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator

                 Goodman, what happens in the case where a

                 contractor is in dispute with the state

                 regarding taxes that are owed to them, there

                 may be circumstances maybe protesting -- he's

                 claiming that he doesn't owe the taxes,

                 they're claiming that he does owe it, and it's

                 basically in litigation.  And if it hasn't

                 been completely litigated, does this now

                 preempt him or her from seeking the contract?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This

                 legislation does not kick in until the dispute

                 has ended, Senator.  Therefore, your concern

                 is without merit in this case.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I can't hear





                                                          7722



                 you.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I say this does

                 not kick in until the dispute has ended

                 between the taxpayer and the State Tax

                 Department.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Will Senator Goodman yield for a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you yield for some questions?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I will,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Senator, I

                 apologize for any redundancy, but in response

                 to one of Senator Paterson's questions, did

                 you say that there was a ten-day period of

                 notification that a business would get prior

                 to not being awarded a contract?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, that's

                 correct.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you.

                            Through you, Madam President, would





                                                          7723



                 Senator Goodman continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes, he

                 will.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Senator, in the

                 case of a business that cannot afford to pay

                 an obligation that it has to the state but is

                 the low bidder on a contract that would enable

                 it to satisfy a debt that it owes to the

                 state, wouldn't it in that kind of case make

                 sense to allow the business to assume the

                 contract and pay the debt that it owes to the

                 state?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, I

                 don't believe that would in the best -- in the

                 public interest to have that type of

                 circumstance permitted, simply because what

                 we're trying to do is to ensure that people

                 who do business with the state are in good

                 control of their finances.

                            And I think one such index of that

                 type of behavior is prompt payment of taxes.

                 Where there are delays in payment, that does





                                                          7724



                 not reflect well on the soundness or the

                 managerial worthiness of a business.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you.

                            On the bill, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown, on the bill.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    I'm going to

                 support this legislation.  We have similar

                 legislation in the City of Buffalo, where I

                 served for three terms as a council member.

                 In those cases, businesses that owed the City

                 of Buffalo taxes or any kind of indebtedness

                 were not allowed to assume contracts that they

                 were low responsible bidder on.

                            In that case as well, concerns were

                 raised about the business winning this

                 contract, having an indebtedness out there,

                 and being able to repay that indebtedness.

                 But, similar to Senator Goodman's response,

                 the concern of that municipality -- and I

                 agree, the concern of the state -- is to make

                 sure that businesses that are bidders should

                 be responsible.  And to be a responsible

                 bidder, that bidder should not have any debt

                 that is owed to the state.





                                                          7725



                            I think the ten-day notification

                 period is a very responsible measure.  Because

                 if a business has bid on a contract, is set to

                 be awarded the contract, and then has the

                 opportunity to pay any debt that it owes the

                 state within that ten-day period of time, that

                 business can still assume the contract, which

                 I think is a very good provision and one that

                 causes me comfort in supporting this piece of

                 legislation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Will the

                 sponsor yield for one question, Madam

                 President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you yield for one question from

                 Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, Senator Goodman, does this

                 bill apply to the prevailing wage laws and

                 require that we only enter into contracts with

                 companies that have settled their claims under





                                                          7726



                 the prevailing wage laws?  Or is it simply the

                 taxes?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    It relates

                 simply to taxes, Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if Senator Goodman would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    He

                 yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Goodman, having brought this issue of tax

                 compliance, why wouldn't we have a bill that

                 requires compliance with our environmental

                 laws, our prevailing wage laws and all the

                 other laws that this house has enacted?  Why

                 shouldn't we require the contractors to have a

                 clean slate on all of these issues?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, if

                 it's your desire to see such legislation

                 passed, you're at liberty to introduce it,

                 needless to say.

                            This bill has a narrower ambit, and





                                                          7727



                 I think it's an appropriate solution to the

                 problem it seeks to solve.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, can I -- well, I'll dispense

                 with that question.

                            Thank you, Senator Goodman.  I

                 appreciate your answers.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    You're more

                 than welcome, Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, I'm going to vote in favor of this

                 bill for much the same reason that my

                 colleague Senator Brown did, which is I think

                 this is a proper way for us to insist that

                 contractors that are going to take state tax

                 dollars into their private accounts from the

                 public treasury simply require that they have

                 an accounting with the public treasury for

                 what they owe us.

                            But, Senator Goodman, I would

                 suggest that the bill doesn't go far enough.

                 If our theory is that we should only allow

                 people to contract with us and take money out

                 of the public treasury because they are clean

                 contractors or they are considered to be





                                                          7728



                 quality contractors, shouldn't that rule apply

                 to the prevailing wage laws?

                            We shouldn't enter into contracts

                 with companies that have failed to pay

                 prevailing wages or have disputes regarding

                 prevailing wages, a law that was passed by

                 this house that's been in effect for fifty

                 years that says that people are entitled to

                 living wages when they work on public

                 construction projects.

                            Why shouldn't we insist on the same

                 compliance with respect to the environmental

                 laws?  Why should we enter into a contract

                 with a contractor who has failed to clean up

                 their property or remediated it the way the

                 Department of Environmental Conservation has

                 told them to?

                            Why should we support contractors

                 who have disputes involving the minimum wage?

                 Why shouldn't we require that any contractor

                 that we hire and pay from tax dollars comply

                 with the state minimum wage?  Shouldn't we

                 also require that they comply with OSHA, the

                 state OSHA system or the federal OSHA system?

                            Senator Goodman, I think this is a





                                                          7729



                 good idea, but it would be a much better idea

                 if you had broadened the impact to suggest

                 that anyone that's going to go to work from

                 the State of New York and take cash out of the

                 public treasury should be required to comply

                 with all of our laws, and that they should

                 resolve those disputes with the government

                 before they take money from the public

                 treasury.

                            Senator Goodman, I'm going to vote

                 in favor of this bill.  If we had a free

                 amendment process, I'd propose an amendment to

                 make it acceptable across the board for a

                 whole series of potential problems that

                 contractors run into with the State of New

                 York and require that every contractor that

                 takes money out of our treasury have clean

                 hands with respect to every law we enforce.

                            And my view is that this bill

                 should become law and should immediately be

                 amended in a far more expansive way to make

                 sure that we cover everyone in this state and

                 require full compliance with all of our laws

                 before we allow the public treasury to be

                 exposed and paid over to contractors who are





                                                          7730



                 not in compliance with those laws.

                            With that understanding, Madam

                 President, I'm going to vote in favor of the

                 bill.  And I would ask my colleagues to vote

                 in favor as well, with the reservation that

                 the better thing to do would be to amend it

                 and make it broader, make it work for all

                 those other people that are protected by our

                 law, rather than just the public purse.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Is there

                 any other Senator that wishes to speak on the

                 bill?

                            Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I also agree that this is a good

                 bill and, in a way, a bill which would

                 discriminate against those who don't pay their

                 taxes.  But I do want to point out that around

                 the state there are tens of thousands of

                 lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered

                 people who are discriminated against every day

                 even though they are tax-paying New Yorkers.

                            And while I'm pleased to vote for

                 this bill, I would be even more pleased if we





                                                          7731



                 brought to the floor of this house a bill

                 which would make it so that no New Yorker is

                 ever discriminated against.  Certainly its

                 time has come.  That bill has been around for

                 many, many years.  And it's nice to pass these

                 other bills, but let's pass a bill that really

                 will impact the real lives of tens of

                 thousands of New Yorkers and allow them to

                 work where they want to work, live where they

                 want to live, and have the same public

                 accommodations as every other New Yorker.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.





                                                          7732



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 I believe there's a report of the Rules

                 Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be read

                 at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Report

                 of the Rules Committee.  The Secretary will

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 705, by Senator

                 Johnson, an act to amend the Public

                 Authorities Law.

                            1366, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            And 4106, by Senator Libous, an act

                 to amend the Executive Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept





                                                          7733



                 the report of the Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the report of the Rules

                 Committee.  All those in favor signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 those opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Rules report is accepted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 I believe there's a report of the Finance

                 Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be read

                 at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following bill direct to third reading:

                            Senate Print 5353, by the Senate

                 Committee on Rules, an act making

                 appropriations for the support of government.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay the bill





                                                          7734



                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            Without objection, third reading.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations.

                            As a member of the Rochester

                 Genesee Regional Transportation Authority,

                 Milo Turner, of Geneseo.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

                 let me just second the nomination of Milo.

                 I've known him for many years.  He is a

                 Vietnam veteran and served during the Vietnam

                 War, a fine gentleman who has been a farmer,

                 an auctioneer.

                            He's very familiar with the roads

                 and various highway issues in the

                 Rochester-Genesee region.  He succeeds a

                 fellow who got into a little bit of trouble -

                 ran for the Assembly and won, which I guess is

                 trouble, and he succeeds Joe Errigo.





                                                          7735



                            His appointment was from the

                 Livingston County legislature, so he comes

                 here with the imprimatur of the Livingston

                 County legislature.

                            He's a fine gentleman, and also is

                 the husband of Bonnie Turner, who is the

                 person who runs the office of Assemblyman Joe

                 Errigo.  And I think it was a fine choice by

                 the Governor, and I'm sure he'll make a fine

                 commissioner on the Rochester-Genesee Regional

                 Transportation Commission.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I rise to second Senator

                 Volker's accolades and support for Mr. Turner.

                            I have generally asked the members

                 of the RGRTA to come to Albany and talk to us

                 about the future of transportation, largely

                 because, while the Transportation Authority as

                 set up by this Legislature includes rural

                 counties, there's no question that the hub of

                 the whole system is in the 54th Senate

                 District, and that about 80 percent of the

                 people who ride the bus service in Rochester





                                                          7736



                 originate in the urban, largely urban area in

                 the city of Rochester, which I represent.

                            I agree with Dale Volker with

                 respect to Mr. Turner's qualifications.  He

                 does come to us with the approval of the

                 Livingston County legislature.  And my hope

                 is, although I wasn't briefed to talk about it

                 in the Finance Committee, his reputation as an

                 independent thinker and a man of action I

                 think bespeaks the fact that he'll deal with

                 the broader issues of building a central

                 transportation hub, transportation facility.

                            My hope is that the RGRTA will talk

                 with all levels of government about the impact

                 of the decision to build a massive $25 million

                 to $30 million bus terminal in the heart of

                 the 54th Senate District, and that the

                 authority will come and talk to the members

                 from the broader community but particularly

                 the city of Rochester, its county legislative

                 delegation, its state delegation, about the

                 impact of that terminal's construction on

                 downtown Rochester.

                            In addition, I think that the issue

                 of transportation to and from rural areas such





                                                          7737



                 as Livingston County, the development of the

                 corridor along 5 and 20 and its intersection

                 with Route 390 has started to see significant

                 job growth.  It would be my hope that the

                 Transportation Authority would look at ways to

                 get urban dwellers the 20 to 25 miles further

                 south of Rochester so that there would be an

                 opportunity for them to participate in that

                 new job growth.

                            So I think there's a lot happening

                 in transportation in Monroe County.  I think

                 Mr. Turner can make a contribution to that.

                 And I wish him well.

                            And I would just urge him, Madam

                 President, if there are other issues -- state

                 funding for the terminal, for the Authority or

                 other things that are needed to provide

                 quality transportation for the people in the

                 54th district, please don't hesitate to come

                 and call.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Milo Turner

                 as a member of the Rochester-Genesee Regional

                 Transportation Authority.  All in favor will





                                                          7738



                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Milo

                 Turner is hereby confirmed as a member of the

                 Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation

                 Authority.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Mr. Turner is accompanied by his charming

                 wife, Bonnie.  And we're pleased and may we

                 add our congratulations to you.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Board of Trustees of the Cornell

                 University, Edward VK Cunningham, Jr., of

                 LaGrangeville.

                            As a member of the Ogdensburg

                 Bridge and Port Authority, Roger Leland

                 McBath, of Lisbon.

                            As a member of the Central New York

                 State Park, Recreation and Historic

                 Preservation Commission, Stewart F. Hancock





                                                          7739



                 III, of Syracuse.

                            As a member of the State Park,

                 Recreation and Historic Preservation

                 Commission, Seema E. Goldstein, of Brooklyn.

                            As commissioner of the Interstate

                 Environmental Commission, Rose Trentman, of

                 New York City.

                            And as a member of the Stewart

                 Airport Commission, Paul Quartararo, Esquire,

                 of Millbrook.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move the

                 nominations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of all those

                 read by the Secretary.  All in favor will

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 opposed will say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 nominees are hereby confirmed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go back to the controversial





                                                          7740



                 calendar and take up Calendar Number 584, by

                 Senator Hoffmann.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 584, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 3548,

                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

                 Law, in relation to the exemption.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

                 Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I'd be happy to explain the

                 bill.

                            Currently we have a requirement

                 that all milk sold in New York State must be

                 handled by a licensed milk dealer.  Recently,

                 however, it became clear that a requirement

                 that all vending machine operations should

                 also have a milk dealer's license, it creates

                 a duplicative situation.

                            There's really no reason for the

                 milk dealer license to be applied to vending

                 licensees.  And in fact, most vending





                                                          7741



                 licensees are either unaware of the other

                 requirement and are presently operating

                 possibly outside the law.

                            We are in a situation in this

                 state, as in every other state, where we are

                 trying to encourage the consumption of milk in

                 contrast to soda and other less healthy

                 beverages.  And for schools in particular,

                 this is a very worthwhile measure, because it

                 will allow the vending companies to have a

                 greater interest in providing milk on a

                 competitive basis with some of the other

                 soft drink/cola beverages.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.  If the Senator will

                 yield for a series of questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, will you yield?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I'll be

                 glad to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank





                                                          7742



                 you, Senator.  Through you, Madam President.

                            While I certainly am in support of

                 milk being provided through vending machines

                 in any attempt to make milk a major product

                 that is consumed by the public, children in

                 particular, I need to ask the Senator to

                 clarify for me under what section are

                 vending-machine providers for milk covered by

                 existing law.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    All milk sold

                 in New York State must be transported and sold

                 by milk dealers.  They have a milk dealer

                 license.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    If the

                 Senator will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I'll be

                 glad to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson might be interested in





                                                          7743



                 knowing that Section 296 of the Executive Law

                 also has an exemption if it's under -- oh, no,

                 it's not under 296.

                            Section 257 of the Ag and Markets

                 Law.  And there is an exemption if it's under

                 3,000 pounds.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay,

                 I hear the explanation.  I'm still not clear

                 what section of the law covers vending machine

                 sellers of milk that would make this

                 duplicative.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    The Sanitary

                 Code of New York State, Section 14-5.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    If the

                 Senator will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Won't

                 the health and safety of the consumer be

                 compromised if milk dealers utilizing vending

                 machines are not licensed?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam





                                                          7744



                 President, the answer to that would be no.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    If the

                 Senator would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

                 think that the two main goals that we're aware

                 of under the Agriculture and Markets Law,

                 Section 21, assures that farmers are paid -

                 my light just went out.  You can still hear?

                            Two of the goals of the Agriculture

                 and Markets Law, Article 21, assures that

                 farmers are paid for the milk and that milk

                 and milk products are handled in a safe and

                 sanitary manner.  And I understand that this

                 bill continues to do that.

                            The question that I have, however,

                 is that there is a third goal of this milk

                 dealers' licensing law, and that is to allow

                 the state authority to oversee the direct

                 investigation, bacteriology, and other

                 sampling and packaging for public safety.

                            My question is, how can you





                                                          7745



                 guarantee that the vendors will in fact, based

                 upon their own ability to package for the

                 purpose of vending machines, be covered under

                 this regulation?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam

                 President, the Senator is confused about the

                 intent of this law and possibly about the

                 current milk licensing statutes in New York

                 State.

                            Only a licensed milk dealer is

                 allowed to package the product.  This simply

                 deals with the placement of a prepackaged

                 product in a vending machine.  Only a licensed

                 milk dealer can package, only a licensed milk

                 dealer can transport, and all such packaged

                 milk is sampled and tested regularly in

                 accordance with the law.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    If the

                 Senator would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I'm





                                                          7746



                 very glad to have you on record as having said

                 that, because I still do not believe that this

                 bill in fact covers them.  But if you say it

                 does, then I can hold your integrity in

                 question if it doesn't prove to be true.

                 Because the goal of this bill will weaken the

                 state's ability, in our opinion, to enforce

                 laws and regulations which ensure the orderly

                 and safe milk distribution process.

                            And I still am not clear you how

                 you tell me that this is not so.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam

                 President, I'm not sure how much more clear I

                 can make it.

                            Any milk processed in New York

                 State or sold in New York State must be

                 processed, packaged, and tested by licensed

                 milk dealers, and a licensed milk dealer then

                 makes the product available in its packaged

                 and tested format form to somebody who holds a

                 vending license and is governed by the

                 sanitary laws of New York State.

                            There's no need for a duplicate

                 license for milk dealers to be held by both

                 the party that transports and packages and the





                                                          7747



                 party that sells in a vending machine.

                            The goal again, Madam President, is

                 to encourage the sale of milk in vending

                 machines.  And consistent with many other

                 things that we're doing in this state, we

                 attempt to repeal unnecessary and burdensome

                 regulations where they exist and particularly

                 where they interfere with the consumption of a

                 product as wholesome as milk by the children

                 of New York State.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Let me

                 do this on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.

                            I have heard Senator Hoffmann, and

                 I truly -- if I appeared that I did not, that

                 belief of that is not -- that is not the

                 intent.

                            The concern here is not whether or

                 not the regulatory process will be covered,

                 but in the licensing.  The licensing ensures





                                                          7748



                 that those vendors who provide milk and milk

                 products to the public are in fact -- the

                 inspections in fact have occurred.

                            With this removal of this licensing

                 process, there's nothing that assures me that

                 each vendor has in fact been properly

                 inspected.  That's the role that I see that

                 this licensure takes, not only to ensure that

                 the investigations and all of the regulatory

                 process has been carried out, but the

                 licensing is a way for the public to know on

                 those vending machines that in fact this

                 investigation has in fact occurred.

                            So that is my major concern in

                 terms of how this bill, in doing so, it may

                 appear to be duplicative, but that process is

                 one that I think becomes very important

                 because the public has no other way of knowing

                 whether or not those licensing practices and

                 compliances have been conformed with.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Will the sponsor yield to





                                                          7749



                 one question, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, will you yield for one question?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, are all people who sell milk,

                 all operators or retailers who sell milk, are

                 they all currently subject to the regulation

                 that this bill exempts the vending machines

                 from?  I mean, the general trend in New York

                 is to require that everybody that deals with

                 milk be licensed along the line; isn't that

                 correct?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Would you

                 repeat the question, Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Glad to,

                 Madam President.  It may take me more than

                 one, then, to clarify it.

                            This bill seeks an exception from

                 the current licensing requirements for milk

                 dealers; is that correct?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    I'm sorry,





                                                          7750



                 would Senator Dollinger repeat his question.

                 There's a lot of noise in the back of the

                 chamber, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    May we

                 have some order.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay, I'll

                 try a third time.

                            Through you, Madam President, as I

                 understand this bill, it creates an exemption

                 for people who vend milk through vending

                 machines from the normal requirements that

                 they obtain a license to deal in milk; is that

                 correct?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    That is

                 correct.  But it's not considered a normal

                 requirement, because most people who deal with

                 vending machines were unaware that a special

                 requirement is necessary for them to obtain

                 not only the vending license and all of the

                 other requirements that they have to have to

                 operate vending machines, but also a milk

                 dealer license.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.

                 Through you, Madam President, is the milk





                                                          7751



                 dealer license requirement for a vendor, for

                 somebody who sells it through vending

                 machines, is that currently a requirement by

                 statute?  Not by regulation, it is by statute?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    It's my

                 understanding that it is a requirement in

                 statute.  But whether it has been previously a

                 regulation, I'm not sure at this point.  I

                 believe it's in statute.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If Senator Hoffmann would -

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Perhaps

                 Senator Dollinger has the information in front

                 of him.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I actually

                 don't, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    But I'll

                 yield to a question at some future time.

                            If Senator Hoffmann would continue

                 to yield just for a moment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I will.





                                                          7752



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What was the

                 rationale when we put into statute the

                 requirement that milk dealers, whether they

                 deal through vending machines or through the

                 normal retail process, that they obtain that

                 milk dealers' license?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam

                 President, I would not be able to make a

                 judgment call on the frame of mind of any

                 legislators that were involved in that

                 particular action or if in fact it was well

                 understood.

                            But very often we repeal sections

                 of law or change things because the

                 implication for us in 2001 had not been

                 properly anticipated when the law had been

                 enacted, many times a hundred years or so

                 before.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The





                                                          7753



                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Does this

                 bill -- because it creates an exemption,

                 again, as you've defined it, subject to three

                 conditions.  Does this create the possibility

                 that more milk produced out-of-state would be

                 sold in vending machines in New York?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam

                 President, since most of the milk sold in New

                 York State is already processed in New York

                 State, I find it unlikely that it would in any

                 way encourage out-of-state milk production.

                 Although given the current state of affairs

                 with the very great difficulty for our dairy

                 farmers in New York State, eventually we may

                 face that reality.  But it would have

                 absolutely no correlation with this law

                 whatsoever.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If the sponsor will yield to

                 one final question, I think I'm done.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Do you

                 yield, Senator Hoffmann, for one final





                                                          7754



                 question?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    I'd be glad to

                 yield to one final question from Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Do the

                 provisions of the New York State Sanitary Code

                 contain specific directions on the process to

                 be followed when milk is sold in vending

                 machines?

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam

                 President, I would be happy, for Senator

                 Dollinger's benefit, to read that section of

                 the sanitary code.  It is Section 14.  Let me

                 make sure I've got the right section here now.

                            Under "Food Protection," Section

                 14-5, Section (b) states "Vending machines

                 dispensing potentially hazardous food are to

                 have heating or refrigeration units with

                 thermostatic controls that are able to

                 maintain the food at 140 degrees Fahrenheit,

                 60 degrees Celsius or above, 45 degrees

                 Fahrenheit or below when fully loaded.  These

                 vending machines are also to have automatic





                                                          7755



                 controls which prevent the machine from

                 vending potentially hazardous food."

                            Then there's something about -

                 let's see.  "Refrigerated food vending

                 machines vending potentially hazardous food

                 requiring heated or refrigerated storage are

                 to have thermometers accurate to plus or minus

                 2 degrees Fahrenheit, 1.1 degrees Celsius,

                 located in the machine that are readily

                 observable by the person servicing the

                 machine, showing the coldest part of the

                 heated storage compartment and the warmest

                 part of the refrigerated compartment."

                            And I find that a very adequate

                 explanation of how these machines should be

                 regulated, and I think I'm probably going to

                 take a closer look at vending machines from

                 now on and when I'm in a situation where I am

                 looking at purchasing one of those wonderful

                 new little chugs, the bottles of milk that are

                 being sold in vending machines, I'm going to

                 double-check to see that those thermometers

                 are in fact plainly in view.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Just on the bill.





                                                          7756



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Hoffmann makes a good point about the state's

                 Sanitary Code.  Because we have enacted in

                 this state among the tightest, if not the

                 tightest, regulations on the purchase and sale

                 of milk products, precisely because, as

                 Senator Hoffmann knows, we have an enormous

                 dairy industry in this state that these

                 regulations are designed to protect because we

                 want to ensure the integrity of the milk

                 product.

                            Under those circumstances, Madam

                 President, I'm enormously reluctant to back

                 off our requirement that vending machine

                 operators get milk dealers' licenses.  I think

                 that that regulation, that statute was put in

                 place for the express purpose of requiring

                 that they comply with enormously rigid

                 controls on the quality of the milk product.

                            And I would suggest to Senator

                 Hoffmann that one of the problems with

                 creating an exemption -- even though, as I

                 acknowledge, it has some protections built





                                                          7757



                 into it in her three-part test -- is the great

                 danger is that if there's a milk problem, if a

                 vending machine breaks down and we sell milk

                 that could have either be well past its age or

                 have other problems with it, the effect of

                 that on New York's dairy industry could be

                 catastrophic.

                            I think of it happening at a place

                 like the New York State Fair, where a vending

                 machine sells sour milk, and I would suggest

                 that the dairy industry does not want to

                 encourage that kind of potential public

                 relations disaster.

                            We've had a very credible dairy

                 industry in this state, it has maintained

                 high-quality milk products.  And I would

                 suggest to everyone that a step backward from

                 tight regulation of that industry is not in

                 the industry's best interest.  Even though, as

                 Senator Hoffmann suggests, this might increase

                 the consumption of milk, it might end up being

                 the wrong kind of milk and might be

                 deleterious to the dairy industry in this

                 state rather than beneficial.

                            I'm going to vote in the negative,





                                                          7758



                 Madam President.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Last section.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other person wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 584 are

                 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Duane, Gentile,

                 Hassell-Thompson, Lachman, Markowitz,

                 Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Schneiderman,

                 M. Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.

                            Ayes, 43.  Nays, 14.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time call up Calendar Number

                 957.





                                                          7759



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 957, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5353, an act making

                 appropriations for the support of government.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 is there a message of necessity and

                 appropriation at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno, there is a message of necessity and

                 appropriation at the desk.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    I would ask that

                 we accept the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity

                 and appropriation.  All those in favor will

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 those opposed will signify by saying nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Senator Bruno.





                                                          7760



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 just so that my colleagues in the chamber

                 understand, that this is the emergency budget

                 bill -- that is about $7 billion worth -- that

                 we are going to enact today, hopefully, to

                 keep the state functioning.

                            This will make $18 billion worth of

                 budget items that we have passed in an

                 emergency fashion to keep the state

                 functioning.

                            Now, why is this necessary?  It is

                 necessary, Madam President, because we in this

                 state do not have a budget.  And we do not

                 have a budget because we are not able to

                 convene the conference committees that we all

                 agreed together, the Assembly and the Senate,

                 three years ago, that we would have an open,

                 public discussion on doing a budget for the

                 people of this state, that we would resolve

                 our differences in conference committees, in

                 an open forum.

                            We have for three weeks in a row

                 attempted, we in the Senate -- I in

                 particular -- to convene the general

                 conference committee.  Now, by agreement the





                                                          7761



                 conference committee, the general committee is

                 convened by a call by my signature and the

                 Speaker's signature and the determination

                 date.  We have named our conference committee

                 members, we in the Majority, you in the

                 Minority, in this house.  So we have done as

                 much as we can do.

                            The Minority in the other house

                 named their conference committee members.  The

                 only conference committee members that have

                 not been named are the Majority in the

                 Assembly.

                            And I want to clarify that because

                 all of us in this chamber are criticized, and

                 rightly so, for not being able to do the job

                 for which we are elected, and that is to pass

                 a budget for the people of this state.

                            Now, we can only do so much.  And I

                 want to thank my colleagues in this chamber,

                 and I want to especially commend the Minority

                 Leader, Senator Connor, who on this floor on

                 3/28/01, March 28th, said:  "The real fact of

                 the matter, Mr. President, is this Legislature

                 had got to stop waiting for the Governor and

                 do the job of a Legislature and negotiate





                                                          7762



                 between the two houses a budget."

                            I applaud the Minority Leader.  The

                 Constitution of New York State says, clearly,

                 the Governor proposes a budget.  The

                 Legislature acts on that budget.  The Governor

                 has a right of veto.  And the Legislature can

                 override a veto with two-thirds vote in both

                 houses.  That is the Constitution of New York

                 State.

                            Senator Connor, you are absolutely

                 right.  We should convene the general

                 conference committee to discuss what is

                 available to spend in a public forum.

                            Your colleague Senator Dollinger:

                 "My strong suggestion is let's, Senator Bruno,

                 tomorrow announce that we're going to start

                 conference committees."  Thank you, Senator.

                 That was on 4/18.

                            Senator Brown:  "I think it's also

                 terrible that the conference committee process

                 has not begun.  What stops people from sitting

                 together in a room and talking about their

                 differences on a budget when they recognize

                 that this budget should be passed on

                 April 1st?"  4/18, April 18th.  Thank you.





                                                          7763



                            Senator Duane, you have been

                 particularly vocal.  And I applaud that, and I

                 thank you for that.  On this floor, on

                 March 29:  "We are ready to have the

                 conference committees.  But is there anything

                 that prevents us from having a conference

                 committee to set the revenue?"  The answer is

                 no, there is not.

                            Senator Duane, April 20th.  If you

                 don't mind, because you copy the Speaker and

                 Senator Connor and Assemblyman Faso:  "Dear

                 Senator Joe" -- thank you for being so

                 friendly and congenial.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    "I want to

                 commend you for taking the first step in

                 resolving the state budget stalemate by

                 calling for the start of conference

                 committees.  The only way to pass a state

                 budget is to sit down and actually work on

                 resolving budget differences.  Convening

                 conference committees is the vital first step

                 in achieving this goal.  Sincerely, Tom."

                            Thank you.  Thank you, Tom.

                            Now, Senator Stachowski also had a





                                                          7764



                 quote, but it's so long I'm not going to read

                 it.

                            (Laughter.)

                            The point that I'm making, ladies

                 and gentlemen in this chamber, is that for

                 three weeks we have followed your direction,

                 as we normally do when you relate to good

                 government, Senators.  And we convened or

                 attempted to convene the conference committee,

                 the general committee, to do just what you

                 suggested, Senators Connor, Dollinger, Duane,

                 Brown, Stachowski and many others that would

                 like to have said the same thing but just

                 didn't.  But you intended to.

                            But in all of these meetings, where

                 have you been?  Senator Connor, I missed you.

                 You were not there.  When you called us to

                 convene a general conference committee, you

                 were not there.

                            Now, to the credit of your

                 colleagues on that side of the aisle, Senator

                 Duane showed up with four of your colleagues a

                 week ago, nine days ago, and participated in

                 the process.  And I thought it was productive

                 and constructive.





                                                          7765



                            And then last Wednesday, one week

                 later, I had fully expected, having invited

                 you all to be there, that we would have the

                 entire Senate and probably all the Assembly in

                 attendance, trying to get the budget process

                 started, as you suggested and directed.

                            You weren't there.  Even the five

                 that were there from your side of the aisle,

                 you were no-shows.  I was terribly

                 disappointed, as were my colleagues on this

                 side of the aisle, as were the people in this

                 state.  And I wondered what on earth anyone

                 could have said to dissuade all five of you

                 from being there to participate in a public

                 process.

                            I mean, I can't imagine what might

                 have been said to you.  Because it doesn't

                 relate to anything of consequence if we don't

                 have a budget.  You can't participate much on

                 behalf of your district if we don't have a

                 budget.  So I don't know what promises were

                 made or what promises were not made, but you

                 weren't there, and I was disappointed.

                            Now, we're contemplating doing it

                 again, Senator Connor.  I won't reread your





                                                          7766



                 quote, but I am remembering what you have said

                 to me:  Let's get the process started.  I

                 don't know how else to start this budget

                 process other than to do what we all voted to

                 do -- convene a conference committee, have a

                 public debate on what is available to spend.

                            The Governor submitted his budget,

                 5.3 percent over last year.  The Speaker

                 passed a resolution in his house:  Out-years,

                 8.2 billion more than the Governor.  Our

                 budget is 2.3 billion more than the Governor

                 in the out-years.  First year, our budget is

                 1.2 billion more than the Governor.  The

                 Speaker's is 2.1 in the Assembly, first year.

                            How will we ever close an

                 $8-billion-plus gap between the Governor and

                 the Assembly to arrive at our number, which is

                 the right number?  How will we do that?

                 Senator Duane?  Senator Connor?  Senator

                 Stachowski?  This is rhetorical, by the way,

                 Madam President.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Senator Brown?

                 Senator Dollinger?  How will we do it?  You

                 had the right idea.  Let us convene the





                                                          7767



                 conference committee publicly and start the

                 debate, start the discussion.

                            We feel that the Speaker will head

                 us towards a huge budget deficit with his

                 8-billion-plus spending.  That's how we got in

                 trouble before in this state, by overspending.

                 When Governor Pataki became Governor and we

                 became leaders here, we were $5 billion in

                 deficit by overspending.

                            Now, do we want to go there again?

                 Anybody here want to go there again?  Another

                 rhetorical question, Madam President.  We

                 don't want to go there again.  So we have to

                 control spending.  I think we all agree on

                 that in this house.

                            But we're going to resolve this

                 only in public debate.  Not three people in a

                 room, not two people in a room, not one person

                 in a room talking to himself.  We're not going

                 to do it that way.  We're going to do it in

                 public discussion.  We're going to do it this

                 week, we're going to do it next week or next

                 month or in July or August or September,

                 October.

                            That's how this process is going to





                                                          7768



                 take place.  And any meetings that take place

                 other than through this forum is

                 inconsequential to the process.

                            So I am now invite inviting you all

                 to participate again in the general conference

                 committee meeting that we expect at 10:30 in

                 the hearing room.

                            And, Senator Connor, you as the

                 leader, who was so articulate on this floor as

                 a matter of public record, ought to think in

                 your heart, in your mind, about being there.

                 You've named your committee members, to your

                 credit.  So you want to participate in the

                 process.

                            So what are we doing?  Who are we

                 protecting?  Are we acting on behalf of our

                 constituency, or are we looking to protect

                 someone else's interest?  You're elected in

                 this chamber to represent your constituency.

                 Collectively, we represent all of the people

                 of New York State in this house.  We have an

                 obligation by constitution to do our job.  I'm

                 inviting you to participate in helping us do

                 our jobs.  We have to do it together.  We

                 can't do it alone.





                                                          7769



                            And all of the comments and all the

                 posturing won't get us a budget.  What will

                 get us a budget is to discuss publicly our

                 legitimate differences.  We have differences.

                 The Speaker and the Assembly have a resolution

                 that they feel strongly about.  We passed a

                 resolution that we feel strongly about.  The

                 Governor proposed a budget that he feels

                 strongly about.  But they're different.

                            In order for them to become the

                 budget of this state, they have to be unified

                 into one and they have to be identical and

                 they have to pass both houses in that form.

                 And the only way that is going to take place

                 is for the Legislature to act on its

                 constitutional responsibility to the people of

                 this state.  And all the rhetoric and all the

                 posturing and all the finger-pointing won't

                 get it done.  It's up to us, we in this

                 chamber.

                            So we're going to try again.  We

                 are going to do what we can do to get together

                 and in the spirit of cooperativeness, not

                 aggression, not belligerence, but in

                 cooperating in an open discussion on how to





                                                          7770



                 get a budget done for the people of this

                 state.  And if we do that, then we have

                 fulfilled the wishes of our electorate.  And

                 if we don't do that, then shame on the people

                 who refuse to participate in this process.

                            See you all there at 10:30

                 Wednesday.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            And I am delighted to have been

                 applauded by Senator Bruno and to have so many

                 of my colleagues applauded, although we'd also

                 appreciate a little more tangible recognition,

                 if Senator Bruno would like to do that.  We

                 are talking about an $80 billion budget.

                            Madam President, I'd gladly sit

                 down with Senator Bruno and negotiate a 79,

                 80, 81, $82 billion budget.  Heck, I'd

                 negotiate a $60 billion budget with him if we

                 had the power between us to do that.

                            I'm the Minority Leader, and it's

                 no secret I certainly don't have the ability





                                                          7771



                 to do that.  And any suggestion that I could

                 go to some meeting and negotiate a budget is

                 well beyond the bounds of anything anyone in

                 this Capitol is willing to credit.

                            I do await your conference

                 committee.  And Senator Bruno said it so well

                 right at the very beginning, that a conference

                 committee is called on the signature of the

                 Temporary President and the Speaker of the

                 Assembly.  And when I get a notice from the

                 Speaker and from Senator Bruno that there's a

                 conference committee meeting, then I'll know

                 it's a conference committee meeting, not a

                 press conference, and I'll attend.  And I'll

                 attend not because I'm pretending to negotiate

                 any billions of dollars' worth of a budget in

                 that process, but because there is a role for

                 the Minorities to play to be heard there.

                            Frankly, Madam President, if I

                 thought going to this meeting on Wednesday

                 would somehow or other get $500 for my

                 constituents or the constituents of any of my

                 members here allocated in the budget, I'd

                 certainly go.  But we're not negotiating a

                 budget this Wednesday, not without the





                                                          7772



                 Speaker, not without the Governor.  It's not

                 going to happen.

                            Unfortunately -- and I applaud

                 Senator Bruno's efforts to try and move this

                 process, because things are needed to move it.

                 And he and I have talked on many occasions,

                 and I do agree with at least the desire to

                 find some vehicle or some way to kick-start

                 all this.  That's needed.  That's sorely

                 needed.  So I do applaud his efforts and

                 sincerity in trying to get things moving.

                            Unfortunately, there are other

                 players, and they don't seem to be moving on

                 this.  At least I'm not privy to whether or

                 not the Governor and the Speaker are moving on

                 this.  And that's unfortunate.

                            What's really unfortunate is, as

                 Senator Bruno pointed out, after this

                 appropriation bill passes, we will have done

                 $18 billion in emergency appropriations.  It's

                 not so many years ago when $18 billion would

                 have been the whole budget.  As it is, it's

                 roughly -- figure it out.  We're about -- at

                 the end of June, one quarter of the fiscal

                 year will be gone.  Emergency appropriations





                                                          7773



                 will probably be about one quarter, roughly

                 speaking, of the budget.

                            I think we ought to get one quarter

                 of our paychecks for doing that, since we've

                 done a quarter of the job.  But the fact is,

                 it doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

                            But the real point is we've now

                 invented a new way of doing budgets.  That's

                 what we've done.  We have ritualized a late

                 budget.  We have condoned a late budget.  And

                 I don't mean this like anybody sat down and

                 said, "Now, here's a bad thing, let's do it."

                 I think we've just fallen into it in the past

                 years, out of very, very good motives.

                            The idea of emergency extenders

                 come from very good motives, very good

                 political and governmental motives.  We want

                 to pay the state's workforce.  We want to

                 continue services to our constituents,

                 notwithstanding the inability of the

                 Legislature and the Governor to resolve budget

                 differences and enact a comprehensive budget.

                            So we started with emergency

                 extenders.  I can remember when they were of

                 three days' duration or four days' duration,





                                                          7774



                 while the budget bills were being printed.

                 Then it became a week, and then a week but

                 doing it several weeks in a row.  And then two

                 weeks.  And now we've institutionalized it so

                 much that the emergency extenders this year

                 have been a month in duration each.

                            And all we're doing is changing the

                 constitution, which says there should be an

                 annual budget.  And I can foresee -- hopefully

                 not this year, but some year, unless something

                 changes, when the entire budget will be

                 adopted in a series of one- or two-month

                 extender bills, which is not the

                 constitutional way to do it.

                            We have rewritten the constitution

                 without putting it in writing.  We have

                 changed the way we do things.  We have

                 eliminated the pain and pressure that comes

                 down on a Governor and Legislature, both

                 houses, when there are late budgets.

                            I know from my colleagues who come

                 from the Capital Region here, there's probably

                 a high awareness among your constituents that

                 the budget hasn't been adopted.  But I have to

                 say in my district, as I go around New York





                                                          7775



                 City, you know, unless you're really, really a

                 government fiscal junkie, you don't know

                 there's no budget.  Nobody stops me, as they

                 would have years ago, and says, "Oh, when are

                 we going to get a budget?  or "It's terrible

                 there's no budget."  It's become a nonstory.

                            Talk to reporters from other parts

                 of the state.  Except for columns that poke a

                 little fun here and there and note that we

                 haven't been paid, nobody really seems to care

                 that there's a late budget.  And it's because

                 we have sort of unconsciously, over the years,

                 so refined this tardiness and how to deal with

                 it that we've made it virtually painless.

                            Nobody is not getting a paycheck

                 except the legislators.  Nobody -- no program

                 is going bankrupt or running off to the bank

                 to borrow large loans because the budget

                 didn't pass -- except for us.

                            The fact is, Madam President, we're

                 just brilliant.  We put ourselves in a

                 situation where we're about the only people in

                 the state that suffer from a late budget in a

                 tangible way.  There are intangible factors,

                 obviously, in the type of governmental image





                                                          7776



                 we project and in at least outside groups'

                 view of our fiscal reliability, perhaps, that

                 could hurt the state.  But in any tangible

                 way, a month at a time.

                            And while I've voted for these

                 extenders before, Madam President, I did say a

                 month ago that when you start doing them a

                 month at a time, it's like you're planning for

                 failure.  What we're really doing today in

                 passing this appropriation is all but

                 accepting defeat for the next month.  Aren't

                 we really planning on not having a budget for

                 another month?  Aren't we saying that?

                            Oh, look, lightning could strike

                 and we could get a budget before a month is

                 up.  None of us really believe that.  If we

                 believed that, we wouldn't be doing a

                 one-month extender.  And that's really

                 unfortunate.

                            And sometimes what you believe

                 becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  And I

                 don't mean this just for people in this house,

                 I address it as well to the other house.  And

                 I address it to the Governor, who sends a

                 one-month emergency appropriation to us, as





                                                          7777



                 well.

                            Everybody seems to be quiescent in

                 this:  Well, it will be another month.  We're

                 not going to have anything until at least, if

                 we're lucky, June 17th.  And in the back of

                 everybody's head is that on June 17th, well,

                 we'll do a month -- gee, wouldn't you really

                 like to do six weeks and get July and not have

                 to come back?  We know that's on everybody's

                 mind.

                            So what's happened here is all of

                 the players in this drama have kind of

                 accepted the fact that nothing will be

                 accomplished for the next month.  And as I

                 said a month ago, I don't want to be complicit

                 in that anymore.

                            I would have a far different

                 answer -- by the way, this is not a criticism

                 of anybody.  If I thought for one minute my

                 voting against this bill would result in the

                 public employees not being paid, in payrolls

                 not met, in programs not funded, I'd vote for

                 it.  I'd vote for it.  If I were sitting in

                 Senator Bruno's chair, I'd vote for it,

                 because it's -- frankly, it's necessary.  At





                                                          7778



                 this stage, it's not a choice.

                            But I am in the Minority, Madam

                 President.  And at least on the first round of

                 the roll call, I'll vote no.  If for some

                 reason there aren't 31 votes voting yes, I

                 confess right now I'd switch and make sure it

                 passed.  But I want to have a small protest

                 myself.  And I just want to say no.

                            And that no is about how this whole

                 system -- and I don't mean just in this house,

                 and I'm not pointing across the aisle back and

                 forth across the building.  We've just allowed

                 it to tumble along and developed a whole new

                 system that is extraconstitutional.

                            So today I'm voting no, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Senator Connor, in my humble

                 opinion, because the press isn't asking about

                 why don't we have a budget or our constituents

                 aren't necessarily asking, to me does not make

                 it a nonissue, the fact that we don't have a





                                                          7779



                 budget.  Because, quite frankly, I think all

                 of us should be embarrassed as a Legislature

                 that there is no budget at this time.

                            Certainly we care.  I know I care.

                 And I think your members are probably asking

                 also why isn't there a budget.

                            You know, in 1998 we instituted

                 budget conference committees.  And it was, I

                 think, the most important reform of Senator

                 Bruno, and one of the reasons why he was

                 elected our Majority Leader under very

                 difficult circumstances back in 1995, because

                 it would create a more open, public and

                 accountable negotiations, rather than three

                 men in a room.

                            Which really led the way in Albany

                 for so many years -- and I know, quite

                 frankly, when he was a mere mortal Senator,

                 repulsed Senator Bruno, as it did so many of

                 us, that three men would get in a room and

                 tell the people of the State of New York what

                 their budget was going to be.

                            And that's why this budget

                 conference committee process is so important

                 and should be convened.  And, quite frankly,





                                                          7780



                 all the members in this chamber should attend

                 that meeting on Wednesday at 10:30.  And it

                 works.  I just want to point out a couple of

                 statistics.

                            In 1998, the general conference

                 committee convened on March 25th and the

                 budget was passed on April 14th.  That's about

                 20 days later.  In 1999, it was convened on

                 July 19th, and it was adopted, the budget, on

                 August 4th, approximately 16 or 17 days later.

                            And then in the year 2000 it was

                 convened on April 5th and the budget was

                 enacted on May 5th, within 30 days.

                            So that's why it's important, my

                 fellow colleagues, that we follow Senator

                 Bruno's lead in a bipartisan basis and when he

                 calls for a meeting of the general conference

                 committee, we all attend and send the message

                 to the Assembly Majority that it's time to get

                 a budget done in New York State.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, just briefly on this particular

                 topic.





                                                          7781



                            I feel that the conference

                 committees are a great step forward too.  And

                 as soon as we start having them, I'll be there

                 to participate.  I know that when they have

                 the major conference committee, Senator Connor

                 will be there, as he's our only member.  And

                 I'll be at the conference committee I'm

                 assigned to.

                            However, in a year when the whole

                 process, and in this house in particular, the

                 system is focused on rules, the following of

                 rules, the changing of rules, but basically

                 geared to rules and strict observance of them,

                 because of that -- and I had this conversation

                 with Senator Bruno at a reception before the

                 first of his conference committee, slash,

                 press conferences.

                            If in fact both names are on the

                 letter that invited me to a conference

                 committee, I would be there.  If it was the

                 major committee, I would be there to watch and

                 see what was said.  But the invitation came

                 from Senator Bruno.  And as much as I enjoy

                 spending time with him -- and no one I would

                 rather sit and chat with, about a budget or





                                                          7782



                 about anything, than with Senator Bruno -- but

                 since the Speaker's name isn't there, for

                 whatever reason, it's not a conference

                 committee meeting.

                            And unfortunately, unless I see a

                 piece of paper coming this week with both of

                 their names on it, again, I probably won't be

                 there.  Because I have a lot of things to do

                 in my day in the Legislature.  None that's

                 more important than spending time with Senator

                 Bruno, but a lot of his other press

                 conferences I'm not invited to.  So I can't

                 make an exception since I'm not invited to

                 those.  And since this one is not, according

                 to the rules, a conference committee, I'm

                 probably not going to attend this press

                 conference either.

                            But if for some reason between now

                 and then Speaker Silver's name appears on a

                 letter that I get that will say "conference

                 committee Wednesday at 10:30," I will be there

                 to watch.  Because obviously, if it's the main

                 committee, I'm not on it.  But I will be there

                 to watch, to see what not only Senator Bruno

                 says but what the Assembly says and what my





                                                          7783



                 leader, Senator Connor, says and what

                 Assemblyman Faso says, because I'll be

                 interested.  And I'll also be interested in

                 what -- I think usually Senator Skelos is on

                 that, and Senator Stafford is on that, and

                 I'll be happy to hear what everybody says,

                 because I'll be ready to go forward and move.

                            But until that time, because we

                 follow rules and we make such a sticky issue

                 of it, particularly in this house, I don't

                 want to be one to break the rules, so I can't

                 do something that's against the rules,

                 especially when we make sure that they're

                 followed so strictly in this chamber.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I'll be very brief.  Two

                 quick things.

                            One is I appreciate Senator Bruno's

                 wholesale commitment to public debate, to

                 debate about the great issues that we face in

                 this state.  And you've properly criticized

                 that it should no longer be three men in a

                 room that control that public debate.





                                                          7784



                            Well, I would suggest in this house

                 we have 36 people in a room who in January

                 imposed a whole set of new rules on this

                 house -- you remember last week, you were all

                 here when we had that fancy thing they call a

                 canvass of agreement.  Something, at least in

                 my view, I'd never heard of in American

                 parliamentary debate, I'd never heard of in

                 American democracy.  Instead of voting yes or

                 no, you'd vote on a canvass of agreement,

                 whatever that means.  I still don't know.

                            I would just suggest, Senator

                 Bruno, that if your commitment to that public

                 debate exists, I would urge you to go back and

                 take the same rules that govern conference

                 committees that you embrace today for wide

                 public debate about all of those issues and

                 put them back in place in this house as they

                 existed before January.  That's the right way

                 to bring the spirit of public debate to this

                 chamber and to both chambers of the

                 Legislature and hopefully this whole Capitol.

                            And lastly, Senator Bruno, I

                 interpret the invitation I got to go to the

                 conference committee something like an





                                                          7785



                 invitation to a marriage that says:  I, father

                 of the bride, want you to invite you to the

                 marriage of my daughter.  I would call the

                 father of the bride and say, Who's your

                 daughter marrying?  And the answer is, Well,

                 she doesn't have a proposal yet.  She doesn't

                 have anybody who's willing to say "I do."

                            So why would I go to a marriage

                 when it's just the bride who's interested in

                 the proposal but there's no groom there to

                 agree to marry her?

                            Senator Bruno, I'm not going to go

                 to this marriage until you can show me a

                 willing bride and a willing groom who have

                 said "I do" to putting a budget together.

                 When they both say "I do," I will be there for

                 this marriage and I hope to participate.

                            But if I continue to get an

                 invitation from the earnest father, the

                 earnest father of the bride, I'm not going to

                 attend.  Let's go to the marriage when it's

                 ready, Madam President, and I'll turn down the

                 invitation from the earnest father of the

                 bride looking for a marriage, and I'll wait

                 until we have a firm proposal in place to make





                                                          7786



                 sure that this marriage and the budget that

                 will follow goes through.  When that

                 invitation comes, I'll be there.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I've been listening to this debate

                 and I have had other debates on the Assembly

                 floor while we were there.  I think we've lost

                 our way.

                            What do I mean by that?  I mean

                 when I ran my first campaign, I went to the

                 people and I said that I'm going to try to do

                 the best job I can for the people of the State

                 of New York.  And when they elected me, I put

                 my hand on that Bible and I said, I'm going to

                 uphold the laws of the State of New York and

                 do the best job I can.

                            Now, that promise says, with our

                 State Constitution, that we will do a budget

                 by April 1st.  All the things that I'm

                 hearing, it's our ineptitude to get a budget

                 done in a timely way.

                            Now, let's talk about the tactics





                                                          7787



                 that we have tried to do over the years to

                 break this cycle of late budgets.  We could

                 put everyone in a room come midnight,

                 April 1st, and no one leaves that room until

                 there's a budget.  But you know what?  If we

                 close government down, the workers and the

                 welfare recipients, we make them victims.  We

                 inflict pain on them if there is no budget and

                 no money flows.

                            So that's not a good alternative.

                 I don't want to go there.  I don't think

                 that's a good strategy.

                            The other thing is to pass a law

                 that changes the Constitution of the State of

                 New York that says there will be an automatic

                 trigger if we can't agree, if we can't agree

                 something should happen independent of us.

                            And we have put legislation

                 forward, the Senate has, that says if we can't

                 agree, let's let the Comptroller of the State

                 of New York -- who just happens to be a

                 Democrat, but I won't care -- let the

                 Comptroller, who's most knowledgeable in

                 working with economists and fiscal estimates,

                 let him decide the availability of money.  And





                                                          7788



                 we'll live by that.  Then we kick in the joint

                 conference committee.

                            That seems to be reasonable.  But

                 no, we don't get agreement from the leadership

                 of the Assembly.

                            So I believe that really what

                 happens is there is a political strategy going

                 on here.  And the political strategy for the

                 Minority party -- when I say "Minority," we

                 have a Republican Governor, we have a

                 Republican Senate Majority, and then we have

                 the Majority in the Assembly.  They're the

                 Minority in this case, two against one.  They

                 use late budgets as an extortion for more

                 spending.  That's what they do as political

                 operatives.

                            And we let the political agenda

                 take over what should be our individual

                 constitutional responsibility and the promises

                 we made when we were candidates to the people.

                 That got lost.

                            Oh, we rationalize.  We have taken

                 some of the pain out.  I agree with Minority

                 Leader Marty Connor when he says we've taken

                 out the pain with contingency budgets.  But





                                                          7789



                 it's an excuse for our ineptitude.

                            But there is another tangible loss,

                 and I'll tell you what it is, Mr. Minority

                 Leader.  School districts that don't know what

                 they're getting and have to guess.  They

                 impose budgets that could increase the

                 property tax levy on taxpayers in the district

                 because we didn't tell them how much state aid

                 they're getting.  That's one area where

                 there's a tangible loss for late budgets.

                            So I suggest to each and every one

                 of us that when we go home at night and we're

                 not in this room posturing or political

                 pandering, think about the promise you made to

                 the people and upholding the laws.  And when

                 you put that handle on the Bible, you said

                 that you would uphold the laws of the

                 constitution.

                            I'm disappointed that the people

                 didn't call a constitutional convention,

                 because this would have been number one, right

                 up there, how to handle the budgets, and we

                 would have corrected the deficiency in the

                 State Constitution.  Because there is no

                 penalty, there is no punishment if we don't





                                                          7790



                 meet the April 1st deadline.

                            But aren't you all getting tired of

                 being beaten up in the newspapers, being

                 beaten up by your school districts, saying

                 you're incompetent, you're inept?  I know I

                 personally don't like it.  Because when I come

                 here every day, I try hard, just like you do.

                 And I know you try hard, because I watch your

                 passion and I watch how you fight for the

                 things you believe in.

                            But let me tell you, when you don't

                 show up at a joint conference committee -- you

                 may not have the power.  But if five of you

                 come, ten of you come, twenty of you come,

                 that's going to be a message to the other

                 side.  And didn't Mike Bragman stand up, and

                 18 other soldiers, and say enough's enough?

                 Didn't he do that?  They wanted joint

                 conference committees, open, with the public.

                            So don't let them sell you that

                 political agenda.  And remember your promise

                 to the voters when you ran as a candidate.

                 And we're glad to have you here.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          7791



                 Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I spent ten years in this chamber

                 looking for ways that we could change this

                 whole process, and one of the things that I

                 thought would be most meaningful for the

                 taxpayers would be if all of the committees on

                 which we sit would take pieces of the budget

                 and work on those parts of the budget

                 independently.  And that perhaps would create

                 a better framework than the famous

                 three-men-in-a-room scenario that has plagued

                 this state for so many years.

                            When I wasn't able to make all of

                 those changes, I was thrilled to see the

                 conference committee process evolve.  Because

                 that at least creates a forum in which we can

                 meet across the aisle and between houses and

                 begin to break down into reasonable pieces the

                 responsibility that we have to the taxpayers

                 of this state.

                            And I can tell you without any

                 shadow of a doubt that my effectiveness as a

                 Minority or a Majority member was virtually





                                                          7792



                 the same in those committees.  That's why I

                 cannot understand today why it was only the

                 Majority members of this house, for the most

                 part, who were willing to go to the last few

                 conference committee meetings.

                            And what I cannot understand is why

                 the other chamber is going to continue to

                 incur the disrespect of the people of this

                 state by refusing to sit at the table.

                            When I go back to my district in

                 Central New York, the question that I hear

                 over and over again is:  What's wrong with

                 that Speaker, and why won't those people on

                 the other side of the aisle work with you to

                 get a budget together?  It does matter to the

                 taxpayers of this state.  It matters

                 symbolically in many ways, and it matters

                 substantively as well.

                            The school districts are only one

                 example.  There are numerous cases where

                 people's lives are on hold.  Everybody

                 involved in construction of roads and bridges

                 wonders what's going to happen with the CHIPS

                 aid.  That's always one of the last things

                 that's settled.





                                                          7793



                            What happens to the localities when

                 an entire construction season is over and

                 necessary -- necessary for public safety -

                 repairs to roads and bridges have not been

                 undertaken?  That's especially important in

                 small communities.

                            The little rural towns in the 48th

                 Senate District suffer when they don't know

                 what they're going to receive in state aid

                 because they can't roll it over year after

                 year.  They don't have a large tax base.  They

                 make every single decision based upon the

                 immediate dollars.  They can't anticipate what

                 the future is going to hold.  And they're

                 terrified that they're not going to be able to

                 complete things that they need to do.

                            I don't understand why we can't be

                 sitting around a table where the general

                 government committee can discuss the municipal

                 aid formula.  When I was a Democrat and I

                 worked with Arthur Eve and we talked about

                 Syracuse needs and Buffalo needs, it was no

                 different than when I became a Republican and

                 we talked about Syracuse needs and Buffalo

                 needs.  We were able to sit at a table





                                                          7794



                 together.  And that's what we are elected to

                 do.

                            The people in my district don't

                 care what political party any of us are most

                 of the time.  They just want us to be

                 honorable men and women.  I don't think that

                 anybody is even paying attention to what we're

                 saying outside this chamber right now, because

                 we have lost so much respect in the world at

                 large.

                            But if anyone here can convey to

                 the Speaker that the ball is really in his

                 court now and that he needs to do what Senator

                 Bruno has asked him to do, to come and sit and

                 reason together, please try to make an effort

                 to reach the Speaker, for the benefit of the

                 people throughout this state.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I want to thank Senator Bruno for

                 what I think were his kind words.  And I'm

                 pleased to note that he reads his mail.

                            However, I did also send a





                                                          7795



                 follow-up letter which was not quoted this

                 afternoon on the floor.

                            I was actually very excited when I

                 was invited to the conference committee

                 meeting.  I hadn't been to one before.  And I

                 did go.  But I have to say I was -- first, I

                 was surprised that the meeting was only going

                 to be a half an hour.  It occurred to me that

                 a half an hour wouldn't really be enough time

                 to do very much work at all.  But I thought I

                 would give it a shot anyway.

                            So I did attend.  And I have to say

                 that the beginning of the -- what really -- I

                 mean, let's call a press conference a press

                 conference -- started off with adult Senators

                 chanting "where is Shelly, where is Shelly."

                 That didn't seem like a particularly serious,

                 businesslike start of a meeting.

                            And, yes, it is true that I asked

                 some questions and engaged in some discussion.

                 But only a very, very small part of the

                 budget, having to do with eliminating gas

                 taxes because of the energy crisis that's

                 going on.  But that was just a scintilla of

                 the work that needed to be done when you look





                                                          7796



                 at all of the spending and all of the revenue

                 projections that we have to make.

                            I was also taken aback that at what

                 was supposed to be a joint conference that

                 only one part of it had the overhead

                 projection, with really what looked like a

                 very one-sided position on what the budget was

                 going to be like.

                            I was actually very interested in

                 following up.  But I saw again that the next

                 budget committee that I was invited to go to

                 was also only going to be a half an hour.  And

                 I didn't really want to participate in

                 something which really was not a working

                 meeting.  Not that my time is any more

                 valuable than anyone else's time in this

                 chamber, but my time is valuable.  And

                 clearly, a half an hour press event, allegedly

                 as a conference committee, was not working,

                 was not really getting any movement.

                            I know that on many pieces of

                 legislation, and in fact last year, some sort

                 of a budget process happened and we actually

                 did do a budget.  This road that we're going

                 down on a sort of one-sided conference





                                                          7797



                 committee is obviously not the way to go.  We

                 have to come up with some other method to make

                 the budget process happen in a timely manner.

                            I appreciated the early outreach to

                 try to do that kind of a conference committee,

                 but it was a failure.  So let's move on and

                 try to find some other way to make the budget

                 for the state actually move forward.  I'm

                 ready, willing, and able to work in any kind

                 of process that will make that happen.  But I

                 want to make sure that it's a real process

                 that's really going to work and that's really

                 going to make us have a budget.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            As my colleagues know, I spend

                 quite a bit a time in the chamber and I listen

                 quite intently to debates.  And I have to say

                 I've been very interested in some of the

                 comments that I've heard on the other side of

                 the aisle today.  And among the most

                 interesting was Senator Dollinger's marriage





                                                          7798



                 analogy.

                            Now, we may be a little backward

                 where I come from, but where I come from we go

                 through a period called courtship before

                 there's a marriage.  And the problem that

                 we've got here, you see, is that one of the

                 potential partners in this marriage, he

                 doesn't write, he doesn't call, he doesn't

                 visit, and hell, he doesn't even send -- let

                 alone send flowers.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR MEIER:    And what I find

                 interesting about that analogy and some of the

                 other comments from the other side of the

                 aisle that have been said today is that we're

                 really dancing around the obvious, which is

                 not the potential suitor, it's the 800-pound

                 gorilla who refuses to come into the room.

                            And despite what one of my other

                 colleagues on the other side of the aisle

                 said, there are parts of the world where

                 people do care.  In the community where I

                 live, the leading newspaper editorialized:  "A

                 spotlight on the empty chairs at these budget

                 meetings is more than cheap political





                                                          7799



                 posturing on the Republicans' part.  Pataki

                 submitted a budget earlier than the law

                 requires, and Bruno, as Senate leader, has

                 convened meetings to talk about it.  It's time

                 for Silver to join the process."

                            One of the other newspapers in my

                 district asked me two weeks ago what was I

                 doing to move the budget process forward.  And

                 I gave them what I think is a pretty simple

                 answer, but it's -- like most other things in

                 life, sometimes the answer is simple.  I told

                 them, I'm going to show up for work.

                            And I'm going to show up for work

                 Wednesday morning when the budget conference

                 committee convenes.  Woody Allen said

                 80 percent of life is just showing up.  I'm

                 going to continue showing up for work, and I

                 urge all my colleagues to do so.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    In my own

                 life, I do trial work.  And there's an old

                 adage that if the facts aren't on your side,

                 argue the law.  If the law is not on your





                                                          7800



                 side, argue the facts.  If neither are on your

                 side, sing and dance and hope for the best.

                            Well, I think we're now in the

                 sing-and-dance phase from the other side of

                 the aisle.  It seems to me when you cry for

                 participatory government and you're given an

                 opportunity to participate and you choose not

                 to, especially when it's the constitutional

                 responsibility to have a budget, then I think

                 that we're in the sing-and-dance stage.

                            When you start talking about

                 marriages, that's pretty good singing and

                 dancing.  When you start talking about who

                 signs the letter, the invitation, that sounds

                 like singing and dancing as well.

                            And my favorite is the half-hour

                 meeting that Senator Duane mentioned.  Senator

                 Bruno and Senator Skelos at that meeting said

                 we will sit here all day, all night, all

                 weekend, we'll get a budget done.  And he

                 would have known that had he shown up.

                            So let's stop singing and dancing.

                 You all know what influence you would have in

                 getting Shelly Silver to those conference

                 committees.  If you showed up, then the 18





                                                          7801



                 Assembly people show up, the pressure mounts,

                 and we get it done.

                            So let's participate.  We enjoyed

                 the song, we enjoyed the dance.  Let's get

                 down to work and do what we're

                 constitutionally required to do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I must say I agree heartily with

                 Senator Bonacic.  This is a sign of our own

                 ineptitude.  And whether -- people in my

                 district aren't that upset about this.  They

                 don't insult me about the late budget.  I come

                 here to be insulted.  They're actually not

                 very focused on the budget.

                            But I agree with Senator Bonacic, I

                 think this is a disgrace.  And I think it's a

                 failure of government.  And I think taking the

                 pain out of the process has not served us

                 well.

                            The way we've attempted to inject

                 pain into the process, withholding the

                 paychecks of the legislators, clearly hasn't





                                                          7802



                 worked.  And some more creative approach is

                 necessary.  Maybe if the Speaker of the

                 Assembly and the Majority Leader of the Senate

                 had to switch places April 1st with the

                 Minority Leaders, I think we'd have a budget

                 pretty fast.  I mean, we can try to come up

                 with creative ways to bring this about.

                            But in the meantime, we're not

                 getting this done.  And every time we do an

                 extender I stand up and I say, There is no

                 money in this for some programs, including

                 Superfund.  We're not still not doing it.

                 We're approaching a quarter of the year gone

                 by with no funds going into that critical

                 program.

                            I am going to vote no today, and I

                 respectfully suggest that a month is just too

                 long.  A month is just too long.  We're taking

                 the pain out.  I don't see how we are

                 advancing the cause that my colleagues on the

                 other side of the aisle are so passionately

                 advocating by doing a one-month extender.  I

                 just think it's too long.  I think it sends a

                 bad message.

                            And I think if we would hold out in





                                                          7803



                 this house and say we're not going to do a

                 one-month extender, let's get in here and do

                 this, we'll do two-day extenders, let's keep

                 coming back, let's keep coming back -- that's

                 a concrete way to force the other parties to

                 the table.

                            And I would support that sort of an

                 effort.  I think that, look, the people on my

                 side of the aisle, Senator Duane expressed it.

                 You know, we're happy to come to meetings.

                 We're so rarely invited to meetings that we'll

                 all attend if it's a real meeting.

                            But in the absence of a real

                 meeting, I think that it is very unfortunate

                 that we're today voting on a one-month

                 extender.  I will be voting no and urging

                 everyone else to also vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            First let me thank the Majority

                 Leader for quoting me on the budget and my

                 interest in seeing the budget passed.  I'm

                 certainly very honored by that, and my parents





                                                          7804



                 would be very proud to know that the Majority

                 Leader quoted me.

                            I think maybe because I'm a new

                 member, maybe I'm a little closer to the

                 people.  I wonder -- and I don't mean to be

                 disrespectful, but it seems like around this

                 whole place it's pretty much business as

                 usual.  And I don't know if it's really

                 business as usual, I think it's business worse

                 than usual.

                            Because as I understand it, in the

                 past, all the parties used to really work to

                 get that budget passed by April 1st.  And I

                 agree with the Majority Leader and I agree

                 with the Minority Leader that to not pass that

                 budget by April 1st is wrong.  We have a

                 responsibility as legislators to do that, and

                 for whatever reason we've gotten away from

                 that.

                            It's my understanding that in the

                 old days we used to stay over.  People used to

                 stay up late.  People used to work overtime to

                 get the budget passed close to that April 1st

                 deadline.  In fact, it's my understanding that

                 you used to turn the clock back in the old





                                                          7805



                 days, if you were a few minutes late or a few

                 hours late, to get that budget passed on time.

                            And so I think, as Senator

                 Schneiderman said, maybe we do need to

                 interject more pain into the process.  Because

                 perhaps if there was more pain, the public

                 would take a hard and serious look at what

                 we're all doing and they would rise up and

                 they would put more pressure on us to get this

                 budget passed.

                            But I think one of the reasons why

                 we're not getting more public pressure is

                 because the pain has been removed from the

                 process.  And although there are

                 consequences -- like Senator Bonacic has said,

                 school districts can't plan, community-based

                 organizations can't plan, they have to borrow

                 money to continue to operate and provide

                 services that people desperately need -- to a

                 large extent, the public has lost sight of the

                 dire consequences for this state when the

                 budget is not passed on time.

                            So like others that have spoken

                 before me, I'm not going to vote for this

                 contingency budget today.  I think there





                                                          7806



                 should be some pain.  I think perhaps if there

                 was pain, the public would really stop and

                 take a hard look at everybody -- the Senate,

                 the Assembly, the Governor -- and would force

                 us together to get something done.

                            And while we're talking about

                 change, I'd like to say I'd like to pass

                 bills, I'd like to get more money for my

                 district.  I'd like to share more equitably in

                 the resources of this house to provide those

                 resources to the taxpayers that elected me.

                            I'm not here for business as usual.

                 That's not why I ran for the Senate.  I'm here

                 for change.  Getting this budget passed on

                 time is one of those changes that I'm here

                 for.  And this one-month extender doesn't get

                 it done.  And as a result, I'm not going to be

                 voting for it today.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I rise in support of this extender

                 bill, because I reject the premise that we





                                                          7807



                 should inflict pain on our constituents to

                 make us do our job.  We heard from many

                 eloquent speakers this afternoon -- Senator

                 Bonacic saying it's broken.  The system is

                 broken.  And every attempt to fix it has been

                 thwarted in the other house.  Not one proposal

                 has surfaced in the Assembly and passed the

                 Assembly that would address the crisis that we

                 face every year.

                            What can we do about this?  I think

                 if you put politics aside and this entire

                 Senate, Republican and Democrat, showed up

                 Wednesday when we attempt to convene another

                 joint conference, it would probably be the

                 most telling and effective thing any Senator

                 here could do if this entire house mobilized

                 and met.

                            Now, we hear it's only a half an

                 hour, we hear that we don't participate.

                 Let's not lose focus on what the general

                 conference does.  It sets the available money,

                 it pronounces the teams, it allocates

                 resources by category, and then we, as

                 Senators, in those subcommittees and those

                 joint committees with the Assembly, go to work





                                                          7808



                 to hammer out how the money is going to be

                 spent.  We don't do that at the joint

                 conference committee, necessarily.

                            But the real argument today is -

                 or the real question, rather, is do we show up

                 as a Senate -- not a Republican Senate, not a

                 Democrat Senate, but as a Senate -- to do our

                 job, saying we're willing.  Now, it may not

                 work if we all showed up this Wednesday.  But

                 I would guarantee you that the pressure and

                 the focus that you could bring to this issue

                 by not trying to defend colleagues in another

                 house, I think that would be the most telling

                 message that the press would watch, that the

                 people would watch.

                            Yes, we've taken the pain out of

                 this, but we haven't taken out the shame.  And

                 the shame is on us.  And we can't get out of

                 that by putting pain on the constituency, the

                 people of the State of New York.

                            I implore my colleagues on the

                 other side of the aisle to come Wednesday, to

                 see where the courage is, to see who's

                 committed to move the ball.  There's no more

                 we can do at this point.  All efforts to fix





                                                          7809



                 this thing have failed.  We can't get a

                 constitutional amendment, which I have

                 proposed, so the people would have a budget on

                 April 1st every year.  We have taken it out of

                 three-men-in-a-room scenario, and I commend

                 Senator Bruno for opening up this door.  He's

                 opened it up for all Senators, he's opened it

                 up for all Assembly people by being committed

                 to the process.

                            So I think we ought to follow the

                 constitution, we ought to pass a budget on

                 time.  I think we ought to let the Legislature

                 come together, present this budget back to the

                 Governor.  And I think whatever fallout at

                 that time occurs we would have to deal with.

                 But there are no guarantees in this world.

                            So I implore you, please, on behalf

                 of your constituents, show the courage to be

                 there.  I commend those Senators who were

                 there two weeks ago.  And one has to wonder

                 what was said, what was not said, what was

                 done, what was not done that suddenly -- one

                 could only assume some pressure was applied.

                 One can only assume some people were told not

                 to be there.  These are all assumptions.  But





                                                          7810



                 it's still a heck of a good question.

                            Let's not have that question this

                 Wednesday.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    To close

                 for the Minority, Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I'm quite impressed with the mea

                 culpa that a lot of our colleagues have

                 expressed about our duties and how we may have

                 failed not only ourselves but the public in

                 not being able to pass a budget on time.  And

                 perhaps out of this last hour of decision we

                 will take a new look at how we deal with this

                 process.

                            But it was kind of startling that

                 after the need to meet on Wednesday, as it was

                 expressed, that the extender would go for a

                 month.  It's a long period of time.  It's not

                 fair to the public.  It is certainly in

                 dereliction of our duty.

                            But certainly the opportunity to

                 sit and to talk is a fair request.  And I

                 think that it's founded in the concept of





                                                          7811



                 fairness, which is an existing equitable

                 belief that you should be granted the

                 opportunity to receive what you've given,

                 assuming that you come to court with clean

                 hands.

                            Now, I heard a lot of

                 self-righteousness out of some Senators, who I

                 want to ask where were they on March the 13th,

                 at noon, when they were statutorily required

                 to elect four members to the Board of Regents

                 and were absent at that time, even though

                 court rulings have sustained the fact that

                 that was a worthy proceeding.  They didn't

                 like the process, and they didn't show up.

                            Now they like the process, and

                 they're admonishing those who don't want to

                 show up in a different forum.  And what I'm

                 saying is that just really diminishes any

                 self-righteousness or principle that anyone is

                 trying to state here.

                            So now that we all know that we've

                 all done it and we go back and forth changing

                 sides on particular issues, admonishing each

                 other and lecturing each other -- I was very

                 impressed by the lectures I heard this





                                                          7812



                 afternoon, but they really ring with the

                 sounds of open cans and empty pots, when you

                 can go back just a couple of months and see

                 the exact same scenario with the reverse

                 findings.

                            So what I would say is that perhaps

                 we'll adjourn soon and we'll all go home and

                 think it over, and maybe somebody come back

                 here tomorrow with some consistency, because

                 as long as we do have three men and a budget,

                 as long as we all, out of some fierce, blind

                 loyalty, don't speak up for what would really

                 move the budget process along, which would be

                 that all the leaders of the house agree that

                 we stay here every day -- you keep people away

                 from their constituents for two weeks, you'll

                 get a budget passed in two weeks, I guarantee

                 it.

                            But while we continue to drown in

                 what I think is an orgy self-compromise, out

                 of loyalty to some principle that I don't

                 understand, perhaps we might want to think it

                 over and come back tomorrow and recognize that

                 the frailties that we have pointed out in each

                 other exist in ourselves.





                                                          7813



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford, to close for the Majority.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            First, allow me, please, from the

                 bottom of my heart, thank you for not asking

                 any questions.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    We usually

                 have some questions on this bill.

                            We're closing.  I was very sure of

                 that before I said that.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Also, Madam

                 President, I think it was a great founder of

                 this country, one of the great founders,

                 Benjamin Franklin, who once said we either

                 hang together or we hang separately.  I think

                 that's rather profound.  And we're finding

                 here that what he was inferring is not good,

                 and it is not good where we are.

                            I would suggest, Madam President,

                 that what's been said here today, that we can

                 sum it up -- but before I sum up, I have to -

                 I'm afraid Senator -- oh, Senator Dollinger is





                                                          7814



                 still here.  And he and I also have to have a

                 bit of a dialogue before I sit down.  And I

                 would suggest to him that the -- am I

                 interrupting you back there?

                            I would suggest, Madam President,

                 that the proposal has been made, in that we

                 are having the conference committees.

                 Therefore, I suggest that his analogy and

                 suggestion is rather not on-target.

                            Senator Paterson, I never thought

                 I'd see you so far off the mark.  When it

                 comes to electing the Regents, we all know

                 that really we don't have any power, due to

                 the fact of the numbers over -- let me see, is

                 it the south side or the north side?  You'll

                 have to help me again.  But I think it's the

                 north side.  We don't have any power.

                 Therefore, it is not necessary for us to be

                 there to have the constitutional decision

                 made.  Here, we do have to have everybody

                 together.

                            And finally, Madam President, we

                 have to have the reasonable person -- when we

                 were in law school, we all learned about the

                 reasonable man.  I suggest that that should





                                                          7815



                 now be revised and be the reasonable person.

                            And if we're going to be

                 reasonable, we do, as has been said, attend

                 the conference committees.  The Governor

                 proposed the budget earlier than necessary, to

                 his credit.  And it is now necessary for the

                 Legislature to dispose -- and I don't like the

                 word "dispose," so I would say act on the

                 budget.

                            But again, we have to have

                 reasonable people, reasonable persons, we have

                 to sit down together to do that in the

                 Legislature.  And I think it's been suggested

                 a number of times here today what needs to be

                 done.

                            And with that, Madam President,

                 without any questions, we're going to have

                 this bill, I hope, pass unanimously.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 957, Senator Stafford moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8864 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5353.





                                                          7816



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 is there a message of necessity and

                 appropriation on the Assembly bill?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity and appropriation on

                 the Assembly Bill at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 62.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          7817



                 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Just very

                 briefly.

                            I was listening very closely, and I

                 can hear Senator Bruno's frustration, and I

                 think it is honest and I think it is earnest.

                 And if dances and flowers and invitations

                 would do the trick, I would send flowers to

                 everyone in this chamber.

                            The reason I'm voting against the

                 bill now is, as many of you know, I came out

                 of a good government group.  I was president

                 of the League of Women Voters.  I feel like I

                 am sitting in the worst imaginable government

                 possible right now, and it's just an

                 embarrassment for me.

                            I heard certain things that I think

                 are possibilities.  One reason I think we

                 don't go to the conference committees is

                 because, as I understand it from my

                 background, a conference committee, at least

                 in Washington, D.C., is always joint.  It is

                 held between the two houses.  And this is a

                 one-house, so it is not truly a conference

                 committee.





                                                          7818



                            The two things that I did hear that

                 I thought had some measure of worth, I think

                 Senator Bonacic said something about the

                 automatic trigger, that the Comptroller would

                 do the estimates and then, within a certain

                 amount of time, a week or so, we would then

                 sit down at the conference committees.  I

                 think that sounds like one good possibility.

                 I'm sort of very problem-resolving-oriented,

                 so that's why I'm looking at these things now.

                            I think the extender for a month is

                 too much.  I think if we had an extender for

                 only a week, we would be taking it much more

                 seriously, because we'd coming back and doing

                 this every single week.

                            And I think another thing that was

                 mentioned was someone said something about

                 coming back, just staying here daily,

                 regularly, because we'd all get so disgusted

                 with each other that we'd surely come up with

                 a budget because we don't want to be here on a

                 daily business.

                            I'm just thinking of things that

                 would make us do the things that we all want

                 to do, we know we should be doing, and how do





                                                          7819



                 we force it to happen.  And those ideas I

                 thought were valid.

                            But I'll be voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer, in the negative.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    To

                 explain my vote, Madam President.

                            I know that some of my colleagues

                 and some of those who are preparing to run

                 against me for reelection next year are going

                 to be watching the way I vote in this chamber

                 very, very carefully and will be very happy to

                 point out to my constituents that I voted

                 against this bill, against this continuing

                 resolution.

                            And it will be unfortunate, too,

                 that the language of that will not be to

                 explain the background and the history and the

                 situation that I find myself in which has

                 forced me to vote no on this continuing

                 resolution.

                            Having said that, however, I think

                 it is incumbent -- I spoke the first time that

                 we did this, and I said that I understood very





                                                          7820



                 clearly the numbers of agencies and programs

                 for which I fight every day and fight very,

                 very hard to sustain would not in fact be paid

                 and would not receive their allocations if in

                 fact we did not pass these continuing

                 resolutions.

                            But I also cannot be considered to

                 be a part of the solution if I continue to

                 vote to make things so easy and so relaxed

                 that we don't have to be in a hurry.  Even

                 though all of us probably could use our

                 salaries, you know -- and it's very obvious

                 that it isn't a major consideration, because

                 we haven't pushed this to the forefront of our

                 issues.

                            But what is very painful for me is

                 the fact that people are talking about as late

                 as September and October with a

                 comfortableness that is just frightening to

                 me.

                            And to move from a two-week

                 continuance to a four-week continuance, and I

                 guess the next time we can expect a six-week

                 continuance, which nobody -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          7821



                 Hassell-Thompson, how do you vote on the bill?

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    -- is

                 concerned -- I will have to vote no, with the

                 understanding that I do so at my own dread,

                 but my conscience will not let me do

                 otherwise.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson, in the negative.

                            Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Very, very

                 briefly, to explain my vote, Madam President.

                            When the last appropriation came

                 up, I said on the floor in explaining my vote

                 that that was going to be the last time I

                 voted for an emergency appropriation.

                            What we're passing today is more in

                 line with the Governor's Executive budget

                 proposal that came out in February.  I think

                 it's totally inadequate, it doesn't address

                 the issues, and for that reason I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator,

                 you will be recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Ada Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.





                                                          7822



                            I too find that I must explain the

                 reason that I'm voting no on this extender.

                 In all good conscience, I could not vote to

                 extend an extension for four weeks when we are

                 sitting here doing nothing to provide the

                 State of New York with a real budget.

                            And I will continue to vote no on

                 any other extenders until we start to take

                 this seriously.  And on behalf of my

                 constituents, whoever may run against me, they

                 can try to use it, but I believe that my

                 constituents will understand that I'm voting

                 for them.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Ada Smith, in the negative.

                            Senator Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    To explain my

                 vote, Madam President.

                            Like Senator Stavisky and Senator

                 Connor, the last time an emergency

                 appropriation bill came up I said if there

                 weren't substantive negotiations going on, I

                 would not vote for it again.

                            Unfortunately and sadly, there are

                 not substantive negotiations going on, and I'm





                                                          7823



                 not going to vote for this emergency

                 appropriation today.  What we're doing today

                 is business worse than usual.  I think we

                 should stand up, we should not be extending

                 this bill for one month -- one month is much

                 too long -- we should say we want to pass this

                 budget and we should only, only be extending

                 an appropriation for a week at the longest.

                            I vote no, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown, in the negative.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  There's an article today, front

                 page of the Daily News, and it talks about

                 students who have not received adequate

                 chemistry lessons, lessons in science which

                 would allow them to pass their Regents.

                            And we have not negotiated, because

                 we don't have a bill -- a budget that is

                 negotiated between the two houses, as we

                 normally do, which would provide funding for a

                 STEP and C-STEP.  Those programs are

                 especially, specifically established by this

                 Legislature and funded to make sure that





                                                          7824



                 youngsters have access to this kind of

                 education enhancement, enrichment in the

                 sciences in particular, and technology.

                            And we are short at least

                 $10 million for youth -- summer youth

                 employment.  And we have no summer -

                 permanent funding for summer youth employment.

                            So there are many areas where

                 programs, important programs in the City of

                 New York, in my district in particular, are

                 not being funded.  They are on hold.  And that

                 is very bad, I think, for our constituents.

                 It does not serve them, and therefore we're

                 not serving them in our capacity as

                 legislators.

                            So I'm going to vote no on this

                 budget bill, because it really does not

                 include programs that are specific for my

                 district.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  Just to explain my vote very

                 briefly.





                                                          7825



                            I want to clarify two things right

                 at the start.  Senator Stafford, you're

                 absolutely correct.  There's a proposal, but

                 go back to Contracts 101.  A proposal has to

                 be accepted before something happens, before a

                 marriage can occur.  There are proposals from

                 the Senate, there are proposals from the

                 Assembly.  There's no acceptance.  I would

                 suggest sending a marriage invitation is still

                 premature.

                            And with respect to my colleague

                 Senator Bonacic, who talked about political

                 motivation in the process -- remember, he

                 eloquently talked about the Minority party,

                 those Democrats, since Republicans now control

                 the Governor's mansion and the Senate, as they

                 have for 50 years or 60 years or 70 years.  He

                 talked about this is politically motivated by

                 the Minority.

                            Isn't it astounding that this all

                 started in 1983, when there was a Democratic

                 governor, a Democratic Assembly, and

                 Republicans in the Minority party in the

                 house, in the Senate in the Legislature?

                 Could it be that this whole trend toward late





                                                          7826



                 budget is a political ploy by the Republican

                 Party to embarrass Democratic governors?  I'm

                 not sure.

                            I would just suggest that Senator

                 Bonacic, when he accuses Democrats of that, is

                 engaged in revisionism.

                            I'm going to vote no, Madam

                 President.  This goes far too long.  It's like

                 a teakettle.  We're relieving all the pressure

                 off budget discussions by admitting the defeat

                 that it will take more than a month to do.

                            I will agree with whoever the

                 speaker was who said when we start the

                 conference committee, we can get it done.  I

                 would just suggest this is relieving all the

                 pressure on all of us.  It's not the right

                 thing to do.  I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative.

                            Senator DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'm just a

                 little bit confused.  Some people are voting

                 no because the budget hasn't been negotiated

                 and the schools are not being properly funded.

                 If you vote no and if there was a majority





                                                          7827



                 that voted no, we would be depriving the

                 schools in our state of a billion dollars in

                 state aid to close out this year.  That seems

                 sort of illogical.

                            To say that we're not putting

                 enough pressure on ourselves by having a

                 four-week budget, a temporary budget here,

                 what pressure are you putting on in order to

                 make sure we have true negotiations?  And if

                 someone could tell me how you can negotiate

                 with only one person coming to the table, I'd

                 like to know that as well.

                            This is the best way to go, in that

                 school districts are not being hurt, they'll

                 be able to operate until the end of the fiscal

                 session.

                            And the only pressure that we can

                 put on the person who doesn't want to

                 negotiate is to be there at our meetings and

                 try to get public support for true

                 negotiations to start as soon as possible.

                            I vote yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, in the affirmative.

                            Senator Stachowski.





                                                          7828



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, briefly to explain my vote.

                            I'm going to vote for this measure.

                 I can understand my colleagues in a protest

                 vote of a four-week extender, because many of

                 them said they would do that if there was

                 another long extender offered.

                            I'm going to vote to pay the bills,

                 because I think that we don't want to have a

                 mixed message, somebody thinking that this is

                 some party position in protest.  This is

                 people voting the way they think is right and

                 why they want to do it.

                            I'm not going to get involved in

                 the -- as I said earlier, it's nice that you

                 have a conference committee, slash, press

                 conference again Wednesday.  When I get an

                 invitation to a real conference committee -

                 because I didn't make the rules.  I didn't say

                 they had to be signed by both the Speaker and

                 Senator Bruno, in this case, the President

                 Pro Tem of the Senate.  Both have to sign it.

                            The Majority party has made the

                 rules.  We try to obey the rules, whether we

                 like them or not.  In all cases, we still try





                                                          7829



                 to obey the rules.  We're dealt the hand we're

                 dealt with.  We have to do what we have to do

                 as members, always remembering that we have

                 rules.  Change the rules and let anybody call

                 the conference committee, I'll be happy to be

                 there Wednesday.

                            I vote yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stachowski recorded in the affirmative.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 to explain my vote.

                            I'm going to support this bill

                 because -- and support Senator Stachowski in

                 his voting in the affirmative, because, quite

                 honestly, I don't attest to the Newt Gingrich

                 approach of closing down government to get a

                 budget done.

                            You know, I think it's totally

                 appropriate that you pass a four-week extender

                 because you need to -- organizations and

                 people that benefit from these funds need to

                 know that it's there and they need to know the

                 plan.

                            For example, Office for the Aging,





                                                          7830



                 $5 million for the Community Service Program,

                 they need to know that that money is going to

                 be there.  7.6 million for community treatment

                 services for the Office of Alcoholism and

                 Substance Abuse.  $140 million, payment of

                 public assistance.  I think people on public

                 assistance need to know that the funding will

                 be there so they can get by.

                            You need $3 million for child

                 support enforcement.  1.1 billion, as my good

                 colleague Senator DeFrancisco said, general

                 support of public schools.  And 59, almost

                 $60 million for the AIDS Institute Program.

                            I vote in the affirmative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos, in the affirmative.

                            Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, I'm not usually one who prolongs

                 anything.  But I do have to point out, Senator

                 Dollinger -- now, you're talking about

                 contracts.  You've got to go back and read

                 Williston.  Now, if you don't know Williston,

                 get Patterson and Jones' casebook.

                            And you'll find that yes, there has





                                                          7831



                 to be an acceptance after the proposal that

                 you had mentioned.  But we're talking about a

                 reasonable acceptance of our responsibilities.

                            And we have mentioned earlier that

                 we've made the proposal to have the meeting,

                 we're there for the meeting, now we need that

                 reasonable acceptance.  And that's what this

                 is all about, accepting our responsibilities.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford, in the affirmative.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam

                 President, I rise to explain Senator

                 Dollinger's vote.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    When he said

                 the teapot and the pressure building in the

                 teapot, the only analogy that's appropriate

                 there is that there's a lot of hot air.

                 That's what he meant, not that there was

                 pressure building here.

                            As far as my vote goes, this

                 message is for the Speaker, who I consider to

                 be a friend.  And I know that's heresy





                                                          7832



                 among -- but I do.  So Shelly, if you're

                 listening, listen to me.

                            You can't have it both ways.

                 You're either for an open process or you're

                 not.  You're either for reform or you're not.

                 You're either for an open budget with a budget

                 on time or you're not.  Apparently you're not.

                            Thank you, Madam President.  I vote

                 yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni, in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 957 are

                 Senators Brown, Connor, Dollinger,

                 Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery, Onorato,

                 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Schneiderman, A. Smith,

                 and Stavisky.  Ayes, 47.  Nays, 11.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you recognize Senator Breslin.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Breslin.





                                                          7833



                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Madam

                 President, I would request unanimous consent

                 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 584, Bill Number 3548.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So

                 recorded.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 before we do housekeeping and members leave, I

                 think it's appropriate at this time -- we have

                 a wonderful institution, the State Senate, and

                 probably the foundation of our State Senate

                 for so many years has been Senator Marchi.

                 And today is his 80th birthday.

                            And, Senator Marchi -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Happy

                 birthday.

                            (Standing ovation.)

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

                 by way of brief response.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    If I've been





                                                          7834



                 here that long, it's the longest -- I don't

                 know whether it's the longest in history, but

                 certainly the longest in the country.  And

                 Senator Thurmond, down in Washington, we were

                 both elected in 1956.

                            I consider every single day and

                 every single member I ever met, no matter what

                 side of the aisle they sat on, they were

                 always so generous, so kind, so compassionate.

                 It's been a labor of love.  I have not made a

                 sacrifice.  I've enjoyed it so much.  I love

                 them all, all of you.

                            And it has contributed very

                 generously to my pleasure in life and the

                 associations that I formed across the years.

                 And this goes back to 1953, when I was

                 actually on staff, and '56, when I was

                 elected.  But these have all been happy years.

                            We have our differences, and we air

                 them, and I'm not always right and you're not

                 always wrong.  But this is the setting.  And

                 it's been a joy for me.  And the people that

                 work here -- you too, Mary Louise.  My wife is

                 Mary Louise.

                            All of you, God bless you all.  And





                                                          7835



                 thanks so much for so much.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Happy

                 birthday, dear friend.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I would also

                 like to point out, I'm not sure if they were

                 born when Senator Marchi first came to Albany,

                 but it's also Senator Spano's birthday and I

                 believe Senator Paterson's birthday also.

                            So happy birthday to all of you.

                            (Applause.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could

                 return to motions, I believe we have the

                 motion that Senator Dollinger does on a daily

                 basis.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes, Madam

                 President, the motion that seems to have no

                 end.

                            I just give written notice pursuant

                 to Rule XI that I will move the Senate for an

                 amendment to the Rules to add a new rule, XV,





                                                          7836



                 with respect to ethical standards for

                 officers, members and employees of the Senate.

                            I'd ask that that be filed in the

                 Journal, Madam President, with thanks.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 notice is received and will be filed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please recognize Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    I just very

                 quickly want to remind everybody that tomorrow

                 is the Police Memorial celebration.  In fact,

                 because of the delay last week because of the

                 National Memorial, both the Police Memorial

                 and the Firemen's Memorial is tomorrow.

                            There a mass at 9:00 o'clock at

                 Saint Mary's Church, and then the Police

                 Memorial I believe is at 11 o'clock tomorrow

                 morning.  Unfortunately, it conflicts with our

                 session, but it's at 11 o'clock tomorrow, the

                 Police Memorial.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 please recognize Senator Farley.





                                                          7837



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Farley.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Happy birthday to all three.

                            On behalf of Senator Libous, please

                 remove the sponsor's star on Calendar 111.

                            On behalf of Senator Saland, please

                 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 223.

                            On behalf of Senator Meier, on page

                 43, I offer the following amendments to

                 Calendar Number 692, Senate Print 4863A, and I

                 ask that that bill retain its place on the

                 Third Reading Calendar.

                            Madam President, on behalf of

                 Senator Johnson, on page 22 I offer the

                 following amendments to Calendar Number 425,

                 Senate Print 3258, and I ask that that bill

                 retain its place.

                            And on behalf of Senator Larkin, on

                 page 56, Madam President, I offer the

                 following amendments to Calendar 820, Senate

                 Print 2338, and I ask that that bill retain

                 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So





                                                          7838



                 ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you please

                 recognize Senator Hevesi.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I rise to request unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 584, Senate Print 3548.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so recorded.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 is there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 no housekeeping at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there being no further business, I move we

                 adjourn until Tuesday, May 22nd, at 11 a.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Tuesday, May 22nd, at 11 a.m.





                                                          7839



                            (Whereupon, at 6:31 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)