Regular Session - June 19, 2001

                                                              9724



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               June 19, 2001

                                 11:13 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          9725



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senate will come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and join me in reciting the Pledge of

                 Allegiance to the Flag.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    In the

                 absence of clergy, may we please bow our heads

                 in a moment of silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading

                 of the Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Monday, June 18, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, June 17,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.





                                                          9726



                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack,

                 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As a judge of the Court of Claims,

                 Caesar D. Cirigliano, of Waccabuc.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Caesar D. Cirigliano, of Waccabuc, to remain

                 on the Court of Claims to succeed himself.

                            We received his nomination from the

                 Governor.  Since he is a sitting judge, as are

                 all of the nominees today, with one exception,

                 we and the staff of the committee reviewed his

                 experience as a judge.  The judge met with the

                 full committee earlier this morning, was

                 unanimously moved by the committee to the

                 floor, and I would move his confirmation at

                 this time.

                            Well, Senator Leibell is here.  I





                                                          9727



                 will yield to Senator Leibell.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Leibell.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            And I know we have some time

                 constraints today, but I am very pleased to

                 stand here to move this nomination.  Once

                 again, we're very pleased the Governor has

                 sent us the name of someone who is so well

                 qualified.  This is a person who has had

                 tremendous experience, both in the practice of

                 law and then service as a judge.  I know he

                 brings all the credentials that we would wish

                 to see in a member of the judiciary.

                            So without further comment, I would

                 like to urge the chamber to support this

                 nomination.  We have an excellent name here.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Caesar

                 Cirigliano as a judge of the Court of Claims.

                 All those in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,





                                                          9728



                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Cirigliano is with us today

                 in the gallery.  And on behalf of the Senate,

                 we wish you good luck in continuing your

                 important duties, Judge.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Joseph Fisch, of Larchmont.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise once again to move the

                 nomination of Joseph Fisch, of Larchmont, to

                 succeed himself as a member of the Court of

                 Claims.

                            Again, we've reviewed the

                 credentials of Judge Fisch, the work he's done

                 as a judge of the Court of Claims, found them

                 eminently satisfactory.  He appeared before





                                                          9729



                 the full committee this morning and was

                 unanimously moved by the committee to the

                 floor for consideration of his nomination at

                 this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 it's a pleasure to stand on behalf of Judge

                 Fisch and his reappointment.

                            I worked for him in the Queens DA's

                 office for three years in the mid-eighties.

                 Later on, we worked together to bring the

                 Office of Professional Discipline into Harlem

                 as a satellite office.  And I've obviously

                 worked with him and been a friend of his for a

                 long time.

                            If he hadn't been so hard on me and

                 run me out of the DA's office, I probably

                 wouldn't have gone into this career and been

                 such a nuisance around this chamber.  But I

                 hope no one will hold that against him.

                            He's a dear friend of mine, and I'm

                 very happy to see him being reconfirmed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.





                                                          9730



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'm glad I

                 just walked in.

                            Joe Fisch is a very old, dear

                 friend.  But I'm standing to recommend him not

                 because of that fact but because he has really

                 a remarkable resume.  He has been in the job,

                 he has done the job, he is respected, he is

                 cared about.  He is tough, but he's so fair.

                            And so I think this is a wonderful

                 decision by the Governor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

                 despite the fact that Judge Fisch drove

                 Senator Paterson to this chamber, I've

                 overlooked that.

                            And let me just say that I've known

                 Joe for many years, particularly in his

                 activities with the SIC.  He's always been a

                 wonderful public servant, and I know that

                 he'll continue to be the great judge that he's

                 been.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on the

                 nomination?





                                                          9731



                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Joseph Fisch as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.  All those in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Fisch is with us in the

                 gallery today.  And, Judge, on behalf of the

                 Senate, we wish you well with your important

                 duties as they continue.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Richard M. Klein, of

                 Northport.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise once again to move the





                                                          9732



                 nomination of Richard Martin Klein, of

                 Northport, Asharoken, as a judge of the Court

                 of Claims.  Judge Klein is currently sitting

                 on the Court of Claims.

                            And again, his credentials have

                 been examined by the committee -- with great

                 scrutiny, I might add -- and found to be

                 eminently satisfactory.  He also appeared

                 before the full committee earlier this morning

                 and was unanimously moved to the floor.

                            Although Judge Klein is technically

                 Senator Marcellino's constituent, I should say

                 that he and I are not only good friends but

                 really the best of friends.  We first worked

                 together longer ago than either of us would

                 want to admit, 30 years ago as assistant

                 district attorneys in Suffolk County for the

                 Frauds Bureau.  And then when I was

                 Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, Dick Klein

                 headed my Consumer Crime Task Force, he was

                 the attorney in charge of that.

                            He's been an assistant attorney in

                 the Town of Huntington, a district court judge

                 in the County of Suffolk, a Court of Claims

                 judge for the last several years, in which he





                                                          9733



                 handled major felony cases in our county court

                 in Riverhead.

                            He was later transferred to the

                 Civil Division, the Supreme Court in Suffolk

                 County, as an acting Supreme Court justice,

                 and now hears civil matters in a courtroom

                 that's right next door to my own Senate

                 district office, and so we quite frankly see

                 each other on a daily basis.

                            I'm ecstatic that the Governor has

                 renominated Judge Klein for another term on

                 the Court of Claims.  He is an excellent

                 judge.  He's exactly what we want to see in a

                 member of the judiciary in this state.  He has

                 been committed, he works hard.  His rate of

                 closing cases in the County of Suffolk Supreme

                 Court either is the first or second highest,

                 depending on whatever quarter it is, and has

                 been for the last several years.  And he does

                 a magnificent job as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.

                            And I wish him only godspeed and

                 good luck for the rest of his time on the

                 bench.

                            Senator Marcellino is here, and





                                                          9734



                 I'll be happy to yield to him for purposes of

                 a second.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Senator Lack.

                            I also would like to rise and

                 second this nomination of a very worthy person

                 to sit on the bench.  He's a good person who

                 has served the Town of Huntington well and

                 with distinction and has been on the court and

                 served with distinction on the court, as

                 Senator Lack has said.

                            No one has a better record, and no

                 one exemplifies the kind of judge that we all

                 want on the bench more than Richard Klein

                 does.  So I am more than pleased to second

                 this nomination, and wish him well in the

                 years ahead.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Richard

                 Klein as a judge of the Court of Claims.  All

                 those in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,





                                                          9735



                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Klein is with us today in the

                 gallery.  And, Judge, we congratulate you and

                 wish you well as you continue with your

                 duties.

                            (Applause.)

                            SENATOR LACK:    Mr. President, the

                 nominee is also joined by his wife, Ceil, who

                 has joined me on the floor and is right behind

                 me.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    We

                 welcome you to the chamber and congratulate

                 you as well.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Richard C. Kloch, Sr., of

                 North Tonawanda.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Again, Mr.

                 President, I rise to move the nomination of





                                                          9736



                 Richard C. Kloch, Sr., of North Tonawanda, as

                 a judge of the Court of Claims.

                            This is a new nominee to the Court

                 of Claims.  His credentials have also been

                 examined and found to be completely

                 satisfactory, particularly his service as a

                 city court judge in the City of North

                 Tonawanda prior to the Governor's appointment

                 to the Court of Claims.

                            He appeared, as did the other

                 candidates, before the full Judiciary

                 Committee earlier this morning, was

                 unanimously moved to the floor for

                 confirmation at this time.

                            And without further ado, I'd be

                 most happy to yield for the person who every

                 day for the last several months has been

                 waiting for today so he could second the

                 nomination of his own close friend, Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.  Thank you very much,

                 Senator Lack.





                                                          9737



                            Mr. President, I rise to second

                 this nomination of Richard Kloch of North

                 Tonawanda, city court judge, to the Court of

                 Claims.  Unlike the other judges that are here

                 today, Judge Kloch is a new nominee to the

                 Court of Claims.

                            I've known Richard for 25 years.

                 It seems like a short time ago when we both

                 started in North Tonawanda City Hall together

                 back in the late 1970s.

                            I can think of no person who is

                 better qualified, Mr. President, for the high

                 judicial office of a judge of the Court of

                 Claims than Richard Kloch.  He certainly has

                 passed the scrutiny of the screening

                 committees, of Senator Lack's committee.

                            And I know personally from

                 attorneys that I have spoken to that have

                 practiced with him, in front of him, he is

                 considered to be a fair person.  And what

                 better qualification could a judge of any

                 court at any level in the state of New York

                 have other than to have his colleagues say

                 that he is a very fair person.

                            On a personal note, I know that,





                                                          9738



                 Richard, your mom and dad are not here in

                 person, but they are certainly here in spirit,

                 as are all of your children and all of our

                 other friends in North Tonawanda.

                            I certainly urge my colleagues to

                 join me in confirming Judge Kloch.  He'll do a

                 great job for all the people of the State of

                 New York.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise also to second the

                 nomination of Judge Kloch.  We are so happy

                 from Western New York to have him moving to

                 the Court of Claims.  His service through the

                 North Tonawanda City Court has been exemplary.

                 He's a man of the community, understands not

                 only Tonawanda and North Tonawanda -- and I

                 represent Tonawanda, so we are only divided by

                 the canal as far as space goes.

                            But Western New York is a very

                 regional kind of place.  And Dick Kloch knows

                 the whole region, will be a great addition to





                                                          9739



                 the bench.

                            We're very happy for you, Judge.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

                 although I don't know Dick Kloch as well as -

                 certainly as well as George Maziarz does, I do

                 know Dick as a fine lawyer and a fine

                 gentleman.  And I might point out that he

                 probably held more offices in North Tonawanda

                 than anybody I know.

                            In addition to that, at one time

                 many years ago he was counsel to -- I believe

                 it was then called NACC, I can never

                 remember -- there's NACC, DACC, and all the

                 rest of the things, which is the Drug

                 Addiction Guild, Drug Addiction Control

                 Commission, here in Albany.  And I believe in

                 fact that I met Dick way back then when he was

                 with the commission.

                            But at any rate, he's been a fine

                 lawyer and he has a great reputation as a

                 judge in North Tonawanda.  And I have no doubt

                 that he will make an excellent judge in the

                 Court of Claims.





                                                          9740



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 question is on the confirmation of Richard

                 Kloch, Sr., as a judge of the New York State

                 Court of Claims.  All those in favor signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Kloch is with us today in the

                 gallery.  Judge, please rise and accept our

                 congratulations.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Martin Marcus, of Larchmont.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise once more to move the

                 nomination of Martin Marcus, of Larchmont,





                                                          9741



                 again, a sitting judge of the Court of Claims.

                 His record has been examined by the staff of

                 the committee.  He appeared before the

                 committee earlier today and was unanimously

                 moved to the floor because of his excellent

                 record.

                            And I most respectfully yield to

                 Senator Oppenheimer for purposes of a second.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Senator Lack.

                            Again, this is another gentleman

                 who is a friend of mine, lives in my district.

                 But I have to say, the people that are

                 appearing before us now for confirmation are

                 really quite an amazing bunch.

                            Martin Marcus is a person that we

                 should just be very thankful that he has been

                 on the job for us in the state for so many

                 years.  The fact is he is a man of

                 extraordinary intellect and compassion, and

                 you can't think of a better combination as a

                 juror in our state.

                            As far as his background, he's done





                                                          9742



                 so many publications and is involved in so

                 many projects that are important for us, for

                 the State of New York.  And as far as his

                 background, getting his law degree at Yale

                 University, I can't think of a better place.

                 My father and husband both graduated, got

                 their law degrees from there.

                            So, I mean, not only bright and

                 competent, but really caring.  And so I'm very

                 much supporting this nomination and delighted

                 to second it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on the

                 nomination?

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Martin Marcus as a judge of the New York

                 State Court of Claims.  All those in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Marcus is with us in the





                                                          9743



                 gallery today.  Judge, congratulations.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Charles J. Tejada, of

                 Brooklyn.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Charles J. Tejada, of Brooklyn, to succeed

                 himself as a judge of the Court of Claims.

                 We've examined his record as a judge.  He

                 appeared before the committee earlier this

                 morning, was unanimously moved to the floor

                 for purposes of confirmation today.

                            And I most respectfully yield to

                 Senator Markowitz for purposes of a second.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Markowitz.

                            SENATOR MARKOWITZ:    Thank you

                 very, very much.

                            I want to commend the committee,





                                                          9744



                 Senator Lack, and the Governor.  Judge Tejada

                 represents the best of Brooklyn.

                            And I'm delighted that all of us

                 can share in this moment, because not only has

                 he excelled in his career, but he has found

                 the time, which is so important to me, to give

                 something back to the borough that he loves.

                 His activity in the Park Slope neighborhood

                 service center; Project Reach Youth, which is

                 second to none, certainly one of the major

                 organizations in the country working with

                 youth; the fact that he was active at George

                 Wingate High School, which is the school I

                 graduated from myself back in 19 -- I forget

                 the year right now.

                            But I want to say that this is a

                 great day for the judge and his family and for

                 all of us that love Brooklyn as much he does.

                            Congratulations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on the

                 nomination?

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Charles Tejada as a judge of the New York

                 State Court of Claims.  All those in favor





                                                          9745



                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Tejada is with us in the

                 gallery today.  And, Judge, we congratulate

                 you and we wish you well.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Lawrence J. Tonetti, of Rye

                 Brook.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I rise for the last time to move

                 the nomination of Lawrence J. Tonetti, of Rye

                 Brook, to succeed himself as a member of the

                 Court of Claims of this state.

                            He appeared before the committee





                                                          9746



                 earlier this morning, impressed everybody with

                 a very short, concise, but very good

                 statement, was unanimously moved to the floor

                 for confirmation at this time.

                            And I would be most happy to yield

                 for purposes of a second to Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Well, this

                 is a red-letter day for me, three judges.  And

                 all have performed so well in the court.  And

                 of course, you know, competence should be

                 rewarded.

                            And in this case, I'm delighted to

                 be able to second the nomination of Lawrence

                 Tonetti, who is also living within my Senate

                 district, also a man of terrific competence.

                 And I note that he graduated summa from Iona

                 College many years ago, and that of course is

                 a wonderful university that's within my Senate

                 district.

                            Lawrence Tonetti has been doing the

                 job, he's been doing the job with excellence.

                 And in keeping with his performance earlier





                                                          9747



                 today, I will be brief and short, to the

                 point, and just say I'm delighted to be able

                 to second his nomination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on the

                 nomination?

                            The question is on the confirmation

                 of Lawrence Tonetti as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.  All those in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 nominee is confirmed.

                            Judge Tonetti is with us today in

                 the gallery.  And, Judge, we wish you well and

                 we congratulate you on your reconfirmation.

                            (Applause.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

                 of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.





                                                          9748



                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Kuhl, I wish to call up

                 Print Number 3230, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 631, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3230, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.





                                                          9749



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Larkin, I wish to call up

                 Print Number 4251, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 733, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4251, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.





                                                          9750



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 are there any substitutions at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, we

                 do have substitutions.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I ask that they

                 be made at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the substitutions.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 6,

                 Senator LaValle moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 2037

                 and substitute it for the identical Senate

                 Bill Number 1370, Third Reading Calendar 120.

                            On page 24, Senator Hannon moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 534 and substitute it for

                 the identical Senate Bill Number 2822, Third

                 Reading Calendar 630.

                            On page 25, Senator Velella moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 235B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3571B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 647.

                            On page 27, Senator Marchi moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,





                                                          9751



                 Assembly Bill Number 8482 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5097,

                 Third Reading Calendar 686.

                            On page 30, Senator Hannon moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7366A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2505A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 746.

                            On page 31, Senator Goodman moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7323A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3815A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 753.

                            On page 31, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 1530 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3157,

                 Third Reading Calendar 764.

                            On page 36, Senator Seward moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8485B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5100B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 886.

                            On page 43, Senator DeFrancisco

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on





                                                          9752



                 Finance, Assembly Bill Number 1794A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 755, Third Reading Calendar 1145.

                            On page 44, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 4726 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4939,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1154.

                            On page 45, Senator McGee moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 2208A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5436,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1161.

                            On page 46, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 2834 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1756,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1172.

                            On page 47, Senator Breslin moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3379 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2004,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1173.

                            On page 47, Senator Seward moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,





                                                          9753



                 Assembly Bill Number 3473 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2091,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1174.

                            On page 47, Senator Padavan moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 5586 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2960,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1175.

                            On page 47, Senator Marchi moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 5995 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3137,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1178.

                            On page 47, Senator Volker moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8723A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3484A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1180.

                            On page 47, Senator Hoffmann moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 229B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3556B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1181.

                            On page 47, Senator Rath moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,





                                                          9754



                 Assembly Bill Number 8408A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3677A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1182.

                            On page 48, Senator Seward moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7414 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3876,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1185.

                            On page 49, Senator McGee moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8939 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5525,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1193.

                            And on page 49, Senator McGee moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8930 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5529,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1194.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could adopt the Resolution Calendar at

                 this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All





                                                          9755



                 those in favor of adopting the Resolution

                 Calendar signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Resolution Calendar is adopted.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could take

                 up the noncontroversial calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 310, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1810A, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 insurance.





                                                          9756



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 460, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2832, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to rendition.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          9757



                 527, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2767, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the

                 Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 529, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3402, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to retirement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          9758



                 542, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1313, an

                 act to amend the Public Officers Law, in

                 relation to certain public employees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 588, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1966, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to reconstituting.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 590, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2123, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in





                                                          9759



                 relation to establishing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 608, by Member of the Assembly Diaz, Assembly

                 Print Number 7299, an act to amend the Soil

                 and Water Conservation Districts Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 682, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8347, an act to amend

                 the Retirement and Social Security Law, in





                                                          9760



                 relation to granting.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 686, substituted earlier today been the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 688, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1444, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to reimbursement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1, 2002.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          9761



                 715, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

                 Assembly Print Number 7805A, an act to amend

                 the Education Law, in relation to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 723, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3795B, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 group health insurance.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.





                                                          9762



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 730, by Member of the Assembly Magee, Assembly

                 Print Number 3515A, an act to amend the

                 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to

                 definition.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 788, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2653A, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law, in

                 relation to establishing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the





                                                          9763



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 888, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2506, an

                 act to allow the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel

                 members.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 891, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3349A,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          9764



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 964, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3299A, an

                 act to establish two public library districts.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 967, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4268, an

                 act authorizing the City of Canandaigua.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          9765



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1091, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4943,

                 an act to authorize the Town of Putnam Valley.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1128, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3316,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the





                                                          9766



                 last section.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President,

                 would you lay that bill aside, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            Temporarily?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1137, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print

                 5329A, an act to amend Chapter 276 of the Laws

                 of 1993.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill





                                                          9767



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1145, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Magnarelli, Assembly Print Number

                 1794A, an act to amend the Executive Law and

                 the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1146, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print

                 1248, an act directing the commissioner of the

                 Division of Criminal Justice Services.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the





                                                          9768



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1148, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2135, an

                 act to authorize Harry Flores and Carol

                 Merrell to make an application.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1150, by Senator -

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the





                                                          9769



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1151, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4175, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1152, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4484A,

                 an act to authorize the Village of Endicott,

                 Broome County.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          9770



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1153, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 4744,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to municipal regulation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1154, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Matusow, Assembly Print Number

                 4726, an act to permit the reopening.





                                                          9771



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1155, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4953, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to designating.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President,

                 would you lay this bill aside temporarily,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1156, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5025, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to claims.





                                                          9772



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1157, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5241, an

                 act in relation to authorizing the City of

                 Jamestown.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1158, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5246,

                 an act to establish the Ridge Volunteer Exempt

                 Firefighters Benevolent Association.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          9773



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1159, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5365, an

                 act to authorize the City of Ithaca, County of

                 Tompkins.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1160, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5382A,





                                                          9774



                 an act to amend the Public Health Law and the

                 Executive Law, in relation to assisted living

                 residences.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect in 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    To explain my

                 vote.  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

                            This bill establishes a clear

                 definition of what assisted living residences

                 are in the State of New York.  I want to thank

                 the AARP Statewide Senior Action Council, the

                 New York City Association of Homes and

                 Services for the Aging, the Empire State

                 Association of Adult Homes, and several other

                 senior advocacy groups throughout New York who

                 have helped us in crafting this particular

                 piece of legislation.





                                                          9775



                            With the abundance of assisted

                 living centers sprouting up all over the state

                 of New York in rural and suburban areas and of

                 course in the major metropolitan areas, those

                 residences are almost totally unregulated as

                 they currently are constituted in New York

                 State.

                            This legislation, of which we are

                 very close to having three-way agreement on,

                 Mr. President, not only will clearly define

                 but it will also contain some very clear

                 consumer protection pieces for elderly

                 New Yorkers who move into assisted living

                 centers.

                            I strongly urge my colleagues to

                 support this piece of legislation.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1161, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Hoyt, Assembly Print Number

                 2208A, an act to amend the Public Health Law,





                                                          9776



                 in relation to providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Mr. President, I've joined with

                 Senator McGee in sponsoring this legislation.

                 And tragically, it has rang home -- the need

                 for this legislation has rang home in my own

                 backyard, in Dutchess County, where we have

                 seen tragic results of shaken baby syndrome.

                            And most recently, and with a

                 considerable degree of attention or fanfare,

                 we had the tragic death of a young infant, the

                 child of George Lithgow and Peggy Whalen, who

                 at the hands of his daycare provider was the

                 victim of shaken baby syndrome, shaken to the

                 extent that it caused fatal brain damage to





                                                          9777



                 him.

                            Tragically, what we would think of

                 as being common sense doesn't necessarily

                 hold.  People who might never consider

                 striking or abusing a child somehow or other

                 think that it's okay to shake a child, being

                 unaware of the fact that not only can there be

                 neurological damage, severe neurological

                 damage, but also, far too frequently, that can

                 result in death.

                            Senator McGee's bill provides for

                 the distribution of information, through

                 hospitals and birthing centers, to prospective

                 maternity patients.  It goes a long way to

                 really providing information and education to

                 those who most appropriately should be the

                 beneficiaries of that information, and

                 hopefully to protect the young people, the

                 children and the infants who each and every

                 one of us would like to provide safe harbor

                 to.

                            I'm certainly supporting this

                 legislation and was pleased to have worked

                 with Senator McGee in bringing it to the

                 floor.





                                                          9778



                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1162, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5441,

                 an act to authorize the First Methodist

                 Church.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1163, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5444, an

                 act to amend the County Law, in relation to

                 wireless telephone service.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1165, by -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.





                                                          9779



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1168, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 911A, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law and the Administrative Code of

                 the City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1169, by Senator Paterson, Senate Print

                 1478 -

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.





                                                          9780



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1170, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1538,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law, in relation to service credit.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1171, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1541,

                 an act to amend Chapter 609 of the Laws of

                 1996.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the





                                                          9781



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1172, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Print Number

                 2834, an act to amend the Administrative Code

                 of the City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1173, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Canestrari, Assembly Print Number

                 3379, an act to authorize the Village of Green

                 Island, County of Albany.





                                                          9782



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1175, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Print Number

                 5586, an act to amend the Civil Service Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill





                                                          9783



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1176, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3000A, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law and the

                 Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1177, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 3077A, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law, in

                 relation to providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1178, substituted earlier today by Member of





                                                          9784



                 the Assembly Vitaliano, Assembly Print Number

                 5995, an act to amend the Retirement and

                 Social Security Law.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    There is a

                 home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1179, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3479,

                 an act to amend the State Finance Law, in

                 relation to payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          9785



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1180, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8723A, an act to amend the Civil

                 Practice Law and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1181, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Grannis, Assembly Print Number

                 229B, an act to amend the Agriculture and

                 Markets Law, in relation to spaying and

                 neutering.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the





                                                          9786



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1182, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8408A, an act to amend the Real

                 Property Tax Law and Chapter 405 of the Laws

                 of 1999.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill





                                                          9787



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1183, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3770, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 investment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1184, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3798, an

                 act to amend the Business Corporation Law and

                 others, in relation to mergers and

                 consolidations.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 58.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the





                                                          9788



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1186, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3914A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 674 of the Laws of

                 1993.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1187, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4105A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to assistance.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          9789



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2 -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1188, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4746A,

                 an act to authorize the Greater Amsterdam

                 School District.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1191, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5433A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the





                                                          9790



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1193, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8939, an act to amend the Vehicle and

                 Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          9791



                 1194, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8930, an act to amend Chapter 533 of

                 the Laws of 1993.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1195, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5544A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 887 of the Laws of

                 1983.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 21.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          9792



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            Senator Alesi, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Can we return to reports of

                 standing committees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    I believe there

                 is a report of the Rules Committee at the

                 desk, correct.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 884, by Senator

                 Stachowski, an act to amend the Public

                 Authorities Law.

                            1741, by Senator Hoffmann, an act

                 to amend the Public Health Law.

                            2683A, by Senator Skelos, an act to





                                                          9793



                 amend the Family Court Act.

                            3485B, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            3541, by Senator Goodman, an act to

                 amend the Tax Law.

                            3959B, by Senator Lack, an act to

                 amend the Judiciary Law and others.

                            4592A, by Senator LaValle, an act

                 to amend the Education Law.

                            4606A, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

                            4671, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Transportation Law.

                            4695, by Senator Rath, an act to

                 amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.

                            4899A, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the Social Services Law.

                            4918, by Senator Bonacic, an act to

                 amend Chapter 613 of the Laws of 1996.

                            4974A, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Banking Law.

                            5042A, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            5200A, by Senator Stafford, an act

                 to amend the Executive Law.





                                                          9794



                            5248, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Education Law.

                            5406, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 authorize.

                            5411, by Senator Goodman, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            5421A, by Senator Maziarz, an act

                 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

                            5435, by Senator McGee, an act to

                 amend the Education Law.

                            5466, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to authorize.

                            5485, by Senator Kuhl, an act in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            5488A, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

                            5492, by Senator Libous, an act

                 authorizing the commissioner of

                 transportation.

                            5523, by Senator Skelos, an act

                 authorizing the assessor of the County of

                 Nassau.

                            5531A, by Senator Lack, an act to

                 amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law.

                            5551, by Senator Marcellino, an act





                                                          9795



                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

                            5552, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            5558, by Senator Bonacic, an act to

                 amend the Public Officers Law.

                            5561, by Senator Stafford, an act

                 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            5574, by Senator Stafford, an act

                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law

                 and others.

                            5579, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend the Chapter 166 of the

                 Laws of 1991.

                            And 5586, by Senator Seward, an act

                 to amend the Insurance Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  I move to accept the report of the

                 Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the report of the

                 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.





                                                          9796



                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

                            All bills directly to third

                 reading.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Would you at this time call

                 Calendar 1155.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar 1155.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1155, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4953, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to designating.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          9797



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President,

                 may we have 1188 at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar 1188.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1188, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4746A,

                 an act to authorize the Greater Amsterdam

                 School District.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.





                                                          9798



                 President.  May we now have the controversial

                 reading of the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 527, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2767, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the

                 Retirement and Social Security Law, in

                 relation to benefits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    I'm

                 sorry, hold on.  Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I'd like to call to everyone's

                 attention the regulations of the New York

                 State Department of Health regarding the three

                 factors necessary to create a significant risk





                                                          9799



                 of contracting or transmitting HIV infection.

                            They are the presence of a

                 significant-risk body substance; two, a

                 circumstance which constitutes a significant

                 risk or transmitting or contracting HIV

                 infection; and, three, the presence of an

                 infectious source and a noninfected person.

                            Significant-risk body substances

                 are blood, semen, vaginal secretions, breast

                 milk, tissue, and a few body fluids.

                            Circumstances which constitute

                 significant risk of transmitting or

                 contracting HIV infection are sexual

                 intercourse -- that is, vaginal, anal, oral -

                 which exposes a noninfected individual to

                 blood, semen, or vaginal secretions of an

                 infected individual.  Which I don't think taxi

                 inspectors are having sexual intercourse on

                 the job.

                            Sharing of needles and other

                 paraphernalia used for preparing and injecting

                 drugs between infected and noninfected

                 individuals.  I don't think that taxi

                 inspectors are sharing needles with their

                 passengers or with cab drivers.





                                                          9800



                            The gestation, birth, or

                 breastfeeding of an infant when the mother is

                 infected with HIV.  I don't think that most

                 taxi inspectors believe that breast-feeding is

                 part of their job description.

                            Transfusion or transplantation of

                 blood, organs, or other tissues from an

                 infected individual to an uninfected

                 individual, provided such blood, organs, or

                 other tissue have not tested conclusively for

                 antibody or antigen and have not been rendered

                 noninfective by heat or chemical treatment.  I

                 don't think that taxi inspectors are giving

                 blood transfusions.

                            Other circumstances are during

                 which a significant-risk body substance, other

                 than breast milk, of an infected individual

                 contacts mucous membranes -- that is, the

                 nose, eyes, mouth -- nonintact skin, like an

                 open wound, skin with dermatitis condition,

                 abraded areas, or the vascular system of a

                 noninfected person.

                            Such circumstances include but are

                 not limited to needle-stick or puncture-wound

                 injuries and direct saturation or permeation





                                                          9801



                 of these body surfaces by the infectious body

                 substances.

                            I don't think that in the normal

                 course of a taxi inspector's job that they are

                 in that sort of significant risk.  I don't

                 think that they take blood samples or -- what

                 else might they not be doing? -- rubbing up

                 against someone who has an open wound.

                            Now, circumstances that involve

                 significant risk shall not include, shall not

                 include exposure to urine, feces, sputum,

                 nasal secretions, saliva, sweat, tears, or

                 vomitus that does not contain blood that is

                 visible to the naked eye.  So if someone

                 sneezes on a taxi inspector, they're not going

                 to get HIV.

                            Human bites where there is no

                 direct blood-to-blood or blood-to

                 mucous-membrane contact.  I can't remember the

                 last time I read a story about a taxi

                 inspector being bitten by a cab or by a cab

                 driver where blood was drawn.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Can we

                 have just a little order in the chamber,

                 please.





                                                          9802



                            SENATOR DUANE:    I can't hear, Mr.

                 President, I'm sorry.

                            The third significant risk which is

                 not considered significant risk is exposure of

                 intact skin to blood or any other body

                 substance.

                            And, four, occupational settings

                 where individuals use scientifically accepted

                 barrier techniques and preventive practices

                 and circumstances which would otherwise pose a

                 significant risk and such barriers are not

                 breached and remain intact.

                            I don't think that taxi inspectors

                 are performing operations.  I don't think that

                 taxi inspectors are performing operations.

                 But if they do, I suggest they wear a mask and

                 gloves.  But really, if they are performing

                 operations, that is an issue they should raise

                 with their union.

                            Based on the regulations of the

                 New York State Department of Health, I find it

                 hard to see how a taxi inspector or, for that

                 matter, a parking control officer would

                 contract the HIV virus during the normal

                 course of employment.  If that's the case,





                                                          9803



                 then I'm sorry to say you're all in danger,

                 because you're all coming into contact with

                 me.  And really, the amount of contact that I

                 have with you is the same amount of contact

                 that in the normal course of their job a taxi

                 inspector or a parking specialist would have.

                            So maybe the Senate themselves

                 should pass some kind of law which allows you

                 all to have disability should you come down

                 with HIV, because you could therefore assume

                 you got it from me.

                            And so, sadly, if you believe that

                 a taxi and limousine inspector or a parking

                 control officer can get HIV on the job, then I

                 guess it's safe to assume that you think you

                 could get HIV on the job from me as well,

                 because that's exactly what this bill is

                 saying.

                            This bill says that it could be

                 expected that in the course of a normal job

                 that you could be infected with the HIV virus.

                 This bill says that casual contact is presumed

                 to be the cause of transmission of HIV.  This

                 bill sends a signal that people should be

                 afraid of someone with HIV because they might





                                                          9804



                 casually get infected with the HIV virus just

                 by being around someone with HIV.

                            I think it's probably about as

                 likely that any of you would have sexual

                 intercourse with me than a taxi inspector

                 should be having sexual intercourse with a

                 taxi cab driver.  That it's as likely that you

                 would all be having sexual intercourse with me

                 as you would be having sexual intercourse with

                 someone who's double-parked.  It doesn't make

                 a lot of sense, does it?

                            Now, you might wonder why the

                 New York State Department of Health even

                 bothers to put out their regulations since

                 allegedly sophisticated people like us choose

                 to disregard them.

                            Sadly, it seems as if the union was

                 too embarrassed to even bring this up in

                 collective bargaining.  So they thought they

                 would come to the people here in this body,

                 because we're more easily fooled.  Because,

                 you know, a responsible person would never

                 think that you could casually get HIV just in

                 the normal course of a regular job like being

                 a taxi inspector or a parking specialist.





                                                          9805



                            Now, I don't want anyone to think

                 that I don't care about making sure that

                 people with AIDS have enough services to live

                 on.

                            Yesterday I discussed how my

                 proudest moment in the New York City Council

                 was when I passed legislation which enshrined

                 in law the city's Division of AIDS Services,

                 which makes sure that no matter what, people

                 with AIDS would have access to health care,

                 decent housing, enough food to eat,

                 particularly for those people who get wasting

                 syndrome from HIV, enough subway fare so that

                 they can get to doctors' appointments.  It

                 makes it possible so that moms who have HIV

                 would have enough services to take care of

                 their children, to keep their families

                 together.

                            I know that in some parts of this

                 state people with AIDS are put up in

                 disgusting motels where no one else would

                 live, sometimes sent to live in trailers that

                 are not up to code.  That because people with

                 AIDS in this state outside New York City often

                 have no place to turn to, including their own





                                                          9806



                 social services agencies.

                            So as I've said, I intend to

                 introduce legislation which replicates what

                 was done in the City of New York so that

                 people with AIDS throughout the state would be

                 guaranteed to have a safety net of enough food

                 and the ability to get to a doctor, a decent

                 place to live, and the ability to see

                 health-care professionals who could prolong

                 their lives, perhaps long enough until a cure

                 is found for AIDS.

                            So my disagreement with this

                 legislation has nothing to do with my desire

                 to see anything but the best possible services

                 to be provided for people with AIDS or, for

                 that matter, for anyone with a catastrophic

                 illness.

                            But to perpetuate the ignorance

                 that HIV could be casually transmitted in the

                 normal course of a job will probably lead to a

                 much, much, much more dangerous situation in

                 terms of instilling fear in people that just

                 by coming into casual connect with someone

                 else they're putting themselves at risk of

                 contracting HIV.





                                                          9807



                            So I ask all of you, please,

                 consider what I hope you know about the

                 transmission of HIV.  Think about how you

                 really believe HIV is transmitted, and then

                 make a decision about whether or not you can

                 vote for this bill that assumes that you can

                 casually contract HIV in the normal -- in the

                 course of a normal day's work.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            Yesterday I also spoke on a very

                 similar bill that was offered by Senator Rath.

                 And I had more of an opportunity in committee

                 to have had the opportunity to discuss with

                 the author of this bill, Senator Marchi, and

                 some others the concerns that have been

                 raised, mostly by Senator Duane but also by

                 myself.

                            Part of what I try to articulate

                 when I stand is that when I speak on a bill,

                 particularly of the magnitude of this one,

                 that I try to do so from a basis of





                                                          9808



                 experience.  And some of the experience that I

                 have been fortunate to have had has been to do

                 a wide range of education around issues of

                 health, particularly those related to HIV and

                 AIDS.

                            And one of my greatest concerns

                 that I have expressed has been that we attempt

                 in our legislation to provide opportunities

                 certainly for any benefits for people in the

                 workplace to ensure that they are protected,

                 but that we do so in a very responsible way.

                            As I have explored this bill, I

                 recognize very clearly that the persons that

                 are being added to this legislation certainly

                 could be seriously exposed to such diseases as

                 tuberculosis and hepatitis, which haven't been

                 spoken to in this bill.  And that, by the very

                 nature of those two diseases, the probability

                 of contact or contracting those diseases are

                 great.

                            But to have included HIV in this

                 bill speaks to a kind of ignorance that I

                 would hope that this body would not

                 participate in.  I had hoped when this bill

                 came to the floor that we would have seen some





                                                          9809



                 changes in the language that would have put

                 HIV certainly in a very different category

                 than those of tuberculosis and hepatitis.  But

                 unfortunately, that is not the case.

                            I don't want anyone to think that I

                 would not want to see persons to be protected

                 in the workplace.  And if in fact the chances

                 of their contracting any kind of disease were

                 great, I certainly would be the first to stand

                 in support of it.

                            HIV is not in that category.  And

                 so that while I commend the unions on their

                 efforts, I don't commend thinking people for

                 what I think we're doing here.  We are

                 perpetrating a fraud.

                            And we have spent -- the State

                 Department of Health has spent an inordinate

                 amount of money attempting to educate people

                 as to how this can be contracted.  And we do a

                 disservice to all of that work and to all of

                 that money that we have spent to presume -

                 and we are, the language talks about a

                 presumption of contracting this disease in the

                 workplace.

                            So I can't vote for or support this





                                                          9810



                 bill, even though such diseases as

                 tuberculosis and hepatitis are inclusive, to

                 include -- for me, someone who has not only

                 the knowledge but who has tried to impart the

                 knowledge to other people, could not in good

                 conscience support this legislation as it is

                 currently written.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            I'd like to read one sentence that

                 I believe perfectly summarizes both Senator

                 Duane's arguments and Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson's arguments, and then I'll

                 let everybody know where I'm getting this

                 from.  "The bill" -- the one we're speaking

                 of -- "inappropriately creates a presumption

                 which is not based on science or fact that an

                 employee who contracts TB, HIV, or hepatitis

                 did so in the performance of his or her duty."

                            That line comes from the City of

                 New York's memorandum in opposition to this

                 bill.  That's the administration of Rudy





                                                          9811



                 Giuliani, which is dead against this

                 legislation.

                            To suggest that somebody who is a

                 taxi inspector and winds up getting AIDS,

                 automatically we're to presume that that

                 person got it because of their job as being a

                 taxi inspector, is really silly.  I don't know

                 how else to approach this except with some

                 measure of ridicule and scorn.

                            Currently, in law, paramedics, EMS

                 employees, firefighters, correction officers,

                 and police officers have that presumption.

                 And though I'm sure Senator Duane would

                 disagree with their right to have that

                 assumption made, I believe they -- at least in

                 that case there is somewhat of a more

                 compelling argument that you could make.

                            Although even for those employees

                 you could easily suggest that those

                 individuals could easily document when they

                 have had the type of interaction that could

                 conceivably lead to the transmission of one of

                 these diseases -- which are very limited.  As

                 Senator Duane points out, these circumstances

                 are very limited.





                                                          9812



                            So you can make an argument for

                 corrections officers, for example, that you

                 have a greater frequency of chance that they

                 will have an interaction with an HIV-positive

                 inmate at the same time that they have an open

                 wound or that some kind of bodily fluid from

                 that inmate has been transmitted to an orifice

                 on that correction officer.

                            You can make the argument that

                 there's a greater likelihood of that

                 happening, even though you could still wind up

                 saying, okay, but in those circumstances don't

                 have it as the presumption, have that as we'll

                 document when that incident occurred and then,

                 if it's found that that incident led to the

                 transmission of the disease, then absolutely,

                 without a doubt the employee should be

                 entitled to additional benefits, disability

                 benefits.

                            But in the case of parking control

                 specialists and school safety agents, campus

                 peace officers, taxi and limousine inspectors,

                 you've got to be kidding.  Any one of these

                 employees winds up with HIV because of a

                 high-risk behavior or not a high-risk





                                                          9813



                 behavior -- a blood transfusion that went

                 wrong in a hospital or something, and we're

                 going to assume that they got it because they

                 were inspecting to make sure that taxi cabs

                 were following their regulations?  That's

                 moronic.

                            And forget the insult for a second

                 that it does to individuals who have been

                 trying for years and years to decrease the

                 stigma attached to HIV and the false

                 perceptions that have been created about how

                 this disease is transmitted.  Put that on hold

                 for a second.  Look at the financial hit we're

                 opening up the City of New York to.  And I

                 believe under this legislation the injury

                 claims can be retroactive to 1996.  So we're

                 opening up a huge liability on the part of the

                 city.

                            Now, I don't think anybody here

                 would suggest that if individuals truly

                 contracted one of these diseases through the

                 transmission of some kind of bodily fluid in

                 the performance of their duty that they

                 shouldn't be entitled to additional benefits.

                 Nobody disputes that.  But the presumption of





                                                          9814



                 that is just silly, flat-out silly.

                            And New York City is now going to

                 have to wind up, if this becomes law -- and I

                 hope it doesn't, and I'm going to vote against

                 this -- is going to wind up having to pay out

                 claim after claim after claim, when I believe

                 if there are these claims that the

                 overwhelming majority of these claims will not

                 be as the result of somebody having contracted

                 one of these diseases in the course of their

                 duty, because to assume so is illogical.  It's

                 flat-out illogical.  That's not how these

                 diseases are transmitted.

                            And so I'm going to vote against

                 this legislation.  This is wrong on several

                 different levels.  I have great respect for

                 both sponsors of the bill.  I just don't know

                 why we're doing this.  I don't understand.

                            Senator Duane points out that this

                 could have been done through collective

                 bargaining, which wouldn't have made it a

                 better idea.  It might have made it a more

                 appropriate venue with which to have this

                 discussion.  But to come here and pass a bill

                 like this is just -- it's just insulting.  It





                                                          9815



                 perpetrates the myth of the spread of certain

                 diseases.  And it exposes the City of New York

                 to tremendous liability.

                            This is just a plain bad idea.

                 Sometimes in this body we have bills before us

                 that are real gray, they're fifty-fifty.

                 Yesterday for me was one of them, whether or

                 not to vote for a month-long budget extender.

                 Some things are close.

                            Nothing could be more clear than

                 this being a really bad idea.  Mr. President,

                 I will be voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Marchi, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I am troubled by

                 some of the arguments I think that were

                 raised.  And certainly it's legitimate to make





                                                          9816



                 the observations that you have.

                            We have the heightened

                 apprehension -- and perhaps the Health

                 Department may have additional views.  I don't

                 think in the exercise yesterday there was any

                 mention of the Health Department.

                            On the other hand, there are

                 regulations that are being developed.  And

                 this acts prospectively.  This does not

                 require -- it becomes effective when it is

                 effective by virtue of its adoption as a law

                 of the State of New York.

                            The Assembly passed it I believe

                 unanimously last year -- with one dissenting

                 vote in the Assembly.  In the City Council,

                 you had the same experience in supplying -

                 and that explains a little bit the dichotomy

                 between the Mayor's office and the City

                 Council.  There was one dissenting vote in the

                 City Council.

                            So there is a home rule message at

                 the desk on this bill.  It isn't the most

                 exuberant.  But given the circumstance, the

                 whole thing certainly raises some questions.

                            But you've had -- I understand the





                                                          9817



                 Assembly bill is on the threshold of passage.

                 This would, with the approval of this chamber,

                 would go over there and they would substitute

                 and take it from there.

                            So I think in view of the home rule

                 message that we have -- the Mayor's statement

                 was good as far as it went.  They came in with

                 a non sequitur towards the end of it which

                 simply doesn't explain anything.

                            So I feel in view of the nature, I

                 would hope it will be reflected, as I'm

                 informed, that the constituent portions of

                 this thing will require more precise

                 information and the nature and quality of the

                 circumstances that took place.  And for that

                 reason, I've stayed with the bill.

                            But it is a problem that's ravaging

                 the whole world now, and you can't stop

                 pointing fingers or blaming accusations.  This

                 is not an accusation.  I think it's just an

                 expression of extreme concern.  And anyone,

                 however you characterize the experience they

                 had in arriving at a rather tragic confluence,

                 I think you have to give the benefit of doubt

                 to.





                                                          9818



                            It explains -- I have no disrespect

                 for the arguments that were raised, none.  But

                 I think against the genesis of the bill in

                 reaching us, in actions that have already been

                 taken, is strongly indicative of the

                 cautionary nature of the whole problem.

                            So I hope in the formulation of

                 rules and regulations within, as I know -- I

                 believe the fire department is already engaged

                 in, that most if not all of your concerns will

                 be met.  I certainly hope so.

                            I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Marchi will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            The chair neglected to note that

                 there is a home rule message at the desk.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 527 are

                 Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi,

                 Montgomery, Santiago, and Schneiderman.  Ayes,

                 52.  Nays, 6.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.





                                                          9819



                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  There will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Majority Conference in the Majority

                 Conference Room, and I ask that we stand at

                 ease for approximately one hour.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There

                 will be an immediate conference of the

                 Majority in the Majority Conference Room.

                            The Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 12:35 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 1:54 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senate will come to order.  I ask the members

                 to find their chairs, staff to find their

                 places.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  May we return to motions and

                 substitutions at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Return to

                 the order of motions and resolutions.

                            Ask the Secretary to read the

                 substitutions.





                                                          9820



                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Supplemental Calendar 55A, Senator Volker

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7344A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 3485B, Third Reading Calendar 1199.

                            Senator Rath moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 8374 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 4695, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1205.

                            Senator Bonacic moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 3996 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 4918, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1207.

                            Senator Nozzolio moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 1872A and substitute it

                 for identical Senate Bill Number 4974A, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1208.

                            Senator Maziarz moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 8868 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 5421A, Third





                                                          9821



                 Reading Calendar 1214.

                            And Senator Lack moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9050B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5531A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1221.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:     the

                 substitutions are ordered.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  May we proceed with Calendar 1187,

                 by Senator Libous.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1187.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1187, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4105A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to assistants in podiatrists' offices.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    May we have

                 an explanation, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Libous, an explanation of Calendar Number 1187

                 has been requested by the Acting Minority

                 Leader, Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Mr.





                                                          9822



                 President.

                            Basically what this bill does is it

                 gives podiatrists some flexibility for having

                 assistants do supportive services.  It by no

                 means changes licensing procedures or anything

                 like that.  It certainly does not allow

                 unlicensed personnel to serve individuals.

                            But what it does allow is an

                 assistant to provide supportive services when

                 they see a podiatrist.  Those supportive

                 services would be very similar to the kind of

                 work a dental hygienist, a dental assistant

                 does.

                            In this area it would be taking

                 preliminary information from the patient,

                 helping the patient become situated in the

                 examining room, removing the shoe, maybe

                 cleansing the foot.  But actually there would

                 be no type of personal examination by that

                 assistant; that would be done by the doctor.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield to a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Libous, do you yield to a question from





                                                          9823



                 Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Sure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Why do we

                 need this bill now?

                            I presume that in a podiatrist's

                 office there are unlicensed personnel who

                 provide some of the kinds of services that

                 you've made reference to -- they take reports,

                 they get names and identifications, they show

                 them to the room.  What is it about the

                 particular need for this bill?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

                 that's an excellent question.

                            I think -- through you, Mr.

                 President -- Senator Dollinger, what this bill

                 does for the industry is just kind of defines

                 it so that there is no uncertainty as far as

                 if that does take place now, that it is

                 allowable that a person can take the shoe off,

                 can cleanse the foot, can hand the doctor the

                 instruments.

                            I think it just makes it very clear

                 that the person is certainly not taking the





                                                          9824



                 place of the licensed physician but at the

                 same time, because of law, will have an

                 opportunity to assist the physician.  I think

                 they just want to make it part of statute to

                 clean that up so that there are no doubts.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, just one other question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Libous, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Sure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Libous, are there any other professions that

                 currently provide this service, nurses or

                 physician's assistants, that this bill would

                 displace as a consequence of allowing an

                 unlicensed person -

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    No.  No, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    So this has

                 no impact on the scope of practice in other

                 professions?

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    No, that's

                 correct.





                                                          9825



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  No further questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Hearing none, the Secretary will

                 read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  May we return to the controversial

                 calendar and start with Calendar Number 588.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 588, by

                 Senator Larkin.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 588, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1966, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to reconstituting.





                                                          9826



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 588

                 has been requested by Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            Senator Dollinger, this bill

                 repeals Section 911 of the General Municipal

                 Law, and adds a new section, 911(f), to

                 recreate the Town of New Windsor Industrial

                 Development Agency.  This bill provides for

                 this new IDA's functions, powers, and duties.

                            This IDA needs to be recreated

                 because, under law, IDAs cease to exist if, at

                 the expiration of ten years, there were no

                 outstanding bonds or other obligations.  Since

                 the New Windsor town board has decided that,

                 no outstanding bonds, that they would like to

                 recreate this as a partnership with the

                 development going on in their area at the





                                                          9827



                 Stewart International Airport.

                            This is essential, they believe, to

                 help them promote economic development and

                 attract new business which are now looking at

                 the sites within the industrial complex and

                 the airport.  There are no -- other noncounty

                 IDAs in addition to the Orange County one are

                 the City of Newburgh, the Town of Walden, the

                 Village of Walden, the Town of Wallkill.

                            There has been no opposition at

                 home to this.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if Senator Larkin will yield to

                 a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    This is in

                 Orange County?  New Windsor is in Orange





                                                          9828



                 County?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Does the

                 Orange County Industrial Development Agency

                 have jurisdiction over the airport as well?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    No, it does not.

                 The airport's solely within this part of

                 what -- what New Windsor wants to do is solely

                 within the town of New Windsor.

                            Richard, about two years ago when

                 the Army was going to relinquish its property

                 at Stewart, they went through all the process

                 of letting this land go to anybody.  And the

                 town went to Congressman Sue Kelly and Senator

                 D'Amato, and they crafted legislation that was

                 approved that turned all the land over to the





                                                          9829



                 town.

                            The town believes that this is

                 their only avenue to have economic development

                 in the town.  There's no place else to do it.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  No further questions for

                 Senator Larkin.  Just briefly on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    The reason I

                 asked the question, Senator, is because one of

                 our concerns -- and I think it's been Senator

                 Stachowski and others -- has been about

                 competition between the IDAs in instances -

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    There's no

                 competition in this area.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Right.

                            -- in instances in which we have a

                 town industrial development agency and we have

                 a county development agency with jurisdiction

                 over the same site, and the question of how

                 that competition works out vis-a-vis who takes

                 credit for it and how the benefits are given.

                            If this is one in which there is a

                 sole industrial development agency for this





                                                          9830



                 specific project, I'm going to vote in favor

                 of it.  Keeping an eye on the fact that if

                 there are conflicts in the future, those would

                 raise greater concern.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wish to speak on the bill?

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record

                 the negatives and announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 2.  Senators Duane and Stachowski recorded in

                 the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 590, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2123, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to establishing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is





                                                          9831



                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar Number 590 by Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            This adds a new Section, 890-K, to

                 the General Municipal Law to create the

                 Village of Kiryas Joel Industrial Development

                 Agency, to have the powers and functions.

                            The IDA was created, as you know,

                 to try to help the economic area.  This is a

                 solid Hassidic community that has over the

                 past three years asked for this.  This

                 community has grown now to over 15,000 people.

                 They don't go outside of their community,

                 Richard, if you know something about them.

                 Everything is within the community.  And the

                 only way to promote it so that young people

                 are graduating and getting somewhere has to be

                 for some economic development within the

                 village.

                            I've talked to the village, I've





                                                          9832



                 talked to the county.  The county does not

                 want to get involved in it.  And that's the

                 reason why they're coming to us, because they

                 have recently made some forward movement with

                 companies in New York City and outside of

                 New York, one in Rotterdam, that would like to

                 come.

                            As you know, they do all the

                 diamond work in the city, and a lot of them

                 come from K.J.  They want to be able to start

                 something up there and to enhance the economic

                 opportunity for their constituents.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation

                 satisfactory.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Stachowski, to explain your vote.





                                                          9833



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Briefly to

                 explain my vote, just so I can put on the

                 record why I vote against these bills.

                            Currently in Erie County we have a

                 move by the county executive to try to make

                 one IDA.  We have numerous IDAs.  Companies

                 move from one to another, office space moves

                 from the city to an IDA, all kinds of movement

                 that doesn't produce anything, really, for the

                 taxpayers.  All it does is when one tax

                 abatement is over, they move the company to

                 another town saying they're going to leave the

                 state, and they get another tax abatement.

                            And so I've made it my business to

                 vote against all of them, regardless of what

                 the situation is, because it's a message.

                            And now, currently, we just had

                 another new interesting twist.  In the county

                 executive's push to get IDAs all under one

                 roof, he's now hired the head of the one IDA

                 that refuses to come in as the guy to give out

                 the loans, which I find very interesting.

                            But that's not anything to do with

                 this bill, it's just my way of explaining why

                 I can't support it.  I vote no.





                                                          9834



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Stachowski will be recorded in the negative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 2.  Senators Duane and Stachowski recorded in

                 the negative.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 682, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8347, an act to amend

                 the Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 686, substituted earlier today by the Assembly

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number

                 8482, an act to amend the Retirement and

                 Social Security Law, in relation to

                 establishing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.





                                                          9835



                            Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, will the sponsor yield just to one

                 question?  We'll waive the explanation if the

                 sponsor would yield to a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Marchi.  Senator Marchi, a question on

                 Calendar Number 686 has been requested by

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, we're in

                 between some further aspects of negotiation.

                 This is a bill that would provide for a

                 halfway pension at age 50 and with 20 years.

                            But it has passed the Assembly.

                 And there was some -- the problem, the

                 Governor vetoed it last year.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if Senator Marchi will yield,

                 that's exactly the reason for my question.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Sure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Marchi, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Well, it's a

                 legitimate question, and that's what I'm

                 trying to get -





                                                          9836



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    And I'm trying

                 to get at the bottom of it.  Because I've

                 heard that the -- he said that you needed more

                 specifics, really, to lift it -- as to the

                 nature of the disability and whatnot.  And he

                 was not happy with it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, still waiting for the answer?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Well -

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Some changes

                 were made pursuant to the veto last year.  And

                 the change is -- there's no sign-off by the

                 Governor, but he expressed a willingness to

                 consider it in view.  So -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if Senator Marchi would yield

                 just to one question.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What

                 specifically were those changes, Senator

                 Marchi?  Are they across the board, or are





                                                          9837



                 there a series of them?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I stand

                 corrected, it has not been changed.  And he

                 suggested that they get back together again.

                 And he's indicated that he may take a look at

                 it.

                            I would request that we lay it

                 aside temporarily until I'm in a position to

                 give you a better answer.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Well, Senator

                 Marchi, I'm not sure you need to do that for

                 me.  My understanding is the bill is the same

                 bill we approved last year.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes, it is.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And my

                 understanding is the Governor has asked to, in

                 essence, get the bill back to take another

                 look at it.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yeah.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm prepared

                 to vote for it.

                            I would like Senator Marchi just to

                 yield to one more question, if he would.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The





                                                          9838



                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, why

                 wouldn't this be the perfect bill to override

                 the Governor's veto?  Isn't this in fact the

                 perfect bill to override a gubernatorial veto?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I guess he

                 was -- the Governor may be reflecting also

                 some turbulence, because the Mayor opposed

                 this bill.

                            But I feel on the merits, if we're

                 to believe the authorities, the assertions

                 that have been made, that this is a heavy type

                 of duty which effectively is injurious and

                 toxic people who work in it.  It's heavy -

                 it's heavy work.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I couldn't

                 agree with you more, Senator Marchi.

                            Just briefly on the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Marchi, I voted for this bill last year.  I'm

                 going to vote for it again.

                            My point is simply to make this, is





                                                          9839



                 I don't know why we don't override the

                 Governor's veto on this bill.  This bill

                 passed 59 to nothing.  It's got bipartisan

                 support.  It's obviously a good thing to do.

                 There are obviously people lobbying for it who

                 work for this organization who think this is a

                 good idea.  The Mayor of the City of New

                 York -- or the Mayor's office, I gather,

                 doesn't like the bill.

                            But I think it's pretty fair to

                 say, Senator Marchi, that all these other

                 pension bills that we've done where the City

                 of New York, as with many of our

                 municipalities, come forward and say, We don't

                 like these bills, we don't want you to tell us

                 that you may have to pay greater contributions

                 to the pension plans -- but it seems to me,

                 Senator Marchi, that's in essence our call.

                            And from my point of view, Senator

                 Marchi, what I don't understand -- and

                 somebody someday will explain it, but probably

                 long after I've left this chamber -- but why

                 this bill wasn't brought back to this house to

                 overturn the Governor's veto.  We are now

                 sending him back the exact same bill a year





                                                          9840



                 later saying take it again, here's another

                 chance at it.

                            I don't understand why we don't

                 exercise our constitutional power to just

                 override his veto and turn this into law.

                 Fifty-nine of us agree it's the right thing to

                 do.  And if 101 members of the Assembly think

                 it's the right thing to do, it should become

                 the law regardless of what the man on the

                 second floor thinks, regardless of who he is,

                 regardless of who she is.

                            And I just don't understand why we

                 don't use our constitutional power -- we had a

                 great discussion yesterday about

                 constitutional powers of the Governor and the

                 Legislature.  I don't understand why we don't

                 use our constitutional power here to make this

                 law when 59 members of this chamber say this

                 is a good idea no matter what the Governor

                 thinks about it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Marchi.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Very persuasive,

                 Mr. President.  I would suggest that we pass

                 the bill and then say that we are considering





                                                          9841



                 a Damoclean sword.

                            But you're right.  I mean, here we

                 have two houses of the Legislature coming out

                 with almost a total consensus, a positive

                 consensus.  So perhaps we ought to dangle that

                 Damoclean sword and let him reflect on it a

                 little bit.  I don't think it will do us any

                 harm.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Record

                 the negatives and announce the results.

                            Senator Dollinger, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just to

                 explain my vote.

                            I couldn't agree with Senator

                 Marchi more.

                            The interesting thing about the

                 sword of Damocles, Senator Marchi, is that





                                                          9842



                 it's not really effective unless it falls

                 every now and then.  And I would suggest that

                 this Legislature, which holds the sword in its

                 hand with 42 votes in this house, just has

                 never wielded that sword often enough.

                            And as a consequence, in the

                 comparative balance of power between our

                 executive branch and our legislative branch,

                 we have ceded way, way, way too much power to

                 whoever occupies the second floor.  And too

                 often, party affiliation shields them from the

                 falling of the sword of Damocles.

                            That shouldn't happen.  The sword

                 will be most effective as a threat when

                 occasionally it draws some blood.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  May we proceed with Calendar 682,





                                                          9843



                 after which we will proceed, with your

                 permission, with the regular order.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 682, by

                 Senator Leibell.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 682, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8347, an act to amend

                 the Retirement and Social Security Law, in

                 relation to granting members.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 here again an explanation is not as necessary

                 as some kind of update that Senator Leibell

                 might want to give us on the Governor's

                 previous veto of this bill, if the Senator is

                 willing to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, do you yield a question from Senator

                 Paterson?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 we're just interested in -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Leibell, was that a yes?





                                                          9844



                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Yes, I'm sorry.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, the Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you.

                            Mr. President, we're just

                 interested if Senator Leibell would

                 familiarize us with what were the reasons that

                 the Governor vetoed this bill in the past, and

                 perhaps what actions might be taken to either

                 persuade the Governor that this bill should

                 become a law or what adjustments have been

                 made that satisfies the executive branch.

                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Senator, I do

                 not have with me a copy of the Governor's

                 veto.  In fact, I'm not even aware of what the

                 essence of it was.

                            Suffice it to say that we have

                 comfort with this legislation that it will

                 address what we feel is an egregious situation

                 and will address that problem and take care of

                 our state police officers and make them

                 consistent with the way other police officers

                 are treated.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.





                                                          9845



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            With the clarification, this bill

                 passed the house 58 to zero last year, 59 to

                 zero the year before.  I still believe that

                 it's something that should be done.  And

                 hopefully the Governor won't veto it again

                 this time.  Or, as Senator Dollinger suggested

                 to Senator Marchi, maybe this is a bill that

                 an override would be necessary, because it's

                 not clear to me what the Governor's objections

                 are.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will continue to call

                 the controversial calendar in regular order.





                                                          9846



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 788, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2653A, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law, in

                 relation to establishing.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Duane on Calendar Number 788.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            Senator Duane, over the last few

                 years in America we have found people from all

                 walks of life, every ethnic background there

                 is, that these individuals have been coming up

                 with an illness that nobody knew anything

                 about.

                            For example, I have a young

                 assistant principal at a high school who was

                 playing basketball with some of the students.

                 Towards the end of the game, he banged up

                 against the wall and fell.  Two days later, in

                 the hospital, his ankles and his knees

                 swelled.  The doctors did x-rays, everything

                 else; they could never tell what it was.





                                                          9847



                            There has been research on it at

                 the Center for Disease Control.  They've been

                 doing work on it at Philadelphia Medical

                 Center.  And what it's called is reflex

                 sympathetic dystrophy syndrome.  That is the

                 name given to it by the Center for Disease

                 Control.  We have no known cure.

                            When it first started about four or

                 five years ago, people thought it was an

                 isolated thing.  I'll bet if every member of

                 this body would go back to their district and

                 find out, you will find that there is someone

                 in their district.

                            The main purpose of this bill is to

                 have the Health Department produce some

                 program information packets to tell them what

                 they can do.  There is no known cure for it.

                 All you can do is hope that you can get to

                 somebody who can help you.  In some cases, it

                 may be physical therapy; in some places, it's

                 been an operation.

                            We have a young lady who's in

                 Senator Leibell's district who two years ago,

                 at the Bank of New York, was walking down a

                 hallway in the bank, somehow slipped.  They





                                                          9848



                 operated on her back.  They thought that's

                 what it was.  But nothing has ever been able

                 to heal her.  She's a woman with three

                 children from age 10 down, and she's

                 permanently committed to a wheelchair.

                            I don't know if anybody here knows

                 the movie actor by the name of John Seda.

                 He's been on "Law and Order" and "Third

                 Watch."  I've never seen him on TV, but I've

                 met him.  John Seda is a gentleman born in

                 Puerto Rico, came to the Bronx, now lives

                 between Hollywood and New Jersey.

                            John Seda and his sister were doing

                 what we used to call in my age group the

                 three-legged races.  You know, you have a

                 burlap bag and you each put a foot in there.

                 He was running with his sister, he fell on

                 her.  She was 7 years old.

                            She's 17 years old now.  She must

                 wear totally dark glasses, like the

                 ballplayers do.  She has to be fed, not just

                 spoon-fed, but has to be fed that way.  She is

                 confined to a wheelchair.  Ten years ago when

                 it happened, she blossomed to 250 pounds.

                 Today she's 95 pounds soaking wet.





                                                          9849



                            There is no cure.  They don't know

                 what it is.  All we're asking the Health

                 Department is to be a partner with the people

                 in the State of New York, as some other states

                 are trying to do, is to find out how do we

                 alert them.  If this happens, here's what you

                 have to do:  A, B, and C.

                            I have another person in my

                 district who I talked to on Saturday because

                 of knowing this bill was coming up.  She's

                 transported twice a month to Philadelphia,

                 where she's immersed in water and all of that

                 stuff.

                            All we're trying to do is get out

                 that this is an illness, a disease.  What is

                 it, nobody knows.  But we need to get

                 something out there so that we can protect

                 some of these people.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Larkin, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Duane?





                                                          9850



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Is there any

                 responsibility in this bill for the Department

                 of Health to report back to the Legislature?

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Not at all.

                            Our main effort, Senator, is that

                 we have been working directly here ourself -

                 with the help of Senator Hannon and a few

                 others who have constituents with this, we've

                 been trying to put the pressure on our

                 congressional delegation to do some more

                 dedicated work with the National Institute of

                 Health, the Center for Disease Control, and

                 the center in Philadelphia.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            On the bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm going to vote

                 in favor of this, and I think it's a very

                 laudable cause.  But I am concerned that the

                 Department of Health will not do what they're





                                                          9851



                 supposed to, what the law will mandate them to

                 do.

                            Earlier this session, there were

                 numerous instances of laws that we had

                 previously passed which directed the Health

                 Department to do various things, none of which

                 they did.  And even when the law called for

                 there to be a timetable and report back to the

                 Legislature, they failed every time at doing

                 that.

                            So, you know, hope springs eternal.

                 Maybe they will do this one.  But if they

                 follow in the footprints they've been putting

                 out there now, I have no illusion that this

                 awareness campaign is ever going to get off

                 the ground.

                            So I vote yes, because it does make

                 me feel better.  But I don't really think it's

                 going to help the people of the state of

                 New York.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President,

                 just very briefly on the bill.





                                                          9852



                            I want to commend Senator Larkin -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Meier, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    -- Senator Larkin

                 for this piece of legislation.

                            Since over the last couple of days

                 some members have shared some personal

                 experiences, my wife has RSD, Bill.  It is a

                 debilitating disease.  And it is a disease

                 that many times is met, by the nice people who

                 run insurance companies in this state, with

                 disbelief and ridicule and attempts to try to

                 prove that people are crazy.

                            And what Senator Larkin has done

                 here today I think gives some real hope and

                 some real support to people who suffer from

                 something that is very real, very diagnosable

                 by a competent physician, and extremely

                 debilitating and discouraging.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Hearing none, the Secretary will

                 read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          9853



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1150, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3945,

                 an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in

                 relation to requiring.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

                 Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, an explanation of the bill has been

                 requested, I believe by Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill would amend Section 3205

                 of the Mental Hygiene Law by adding a fourth

                 section that would allow us to have OASAS

                 certify substance abuse homes that are for





                                                          9854



                 patients or clients that are in some sort of

                 treatment program or who have been released

                 from treatment and are living in a community.

                            In my Senate district, and I'm sure

                 in other districts, there has been a

                 proliferation of homes that have many

                 unrelated people living in a community home

                 and are not living in a home that may meet

                 code or be in necessarily a good condition.

                            There are providers that are

                 providing services for individuals that are

                 doing a terrific job that have supervised

                 homes.

                            The most important thing for a

                 person who has been involved in a substance

                 abuse program is to ensure that that

                 individual be in a home that is like a real

                 home, that has clean suitable conditions, that

                 we do not have a home that would, for

                 argument's sake, have two bedrooms and have

                 six or seven people, with people living in

                 basements and other conditions.

                            This bill is before us because the

                 Suffolk County legislature passed a local act

                 and our Department of Substance Abuse





                                                          9855



                 indicated that this was not an appropriate

                 action by a county legislature.  And yet we do

                 not have local governments with the ability to

                 go in and regulate in some way those homes and

                 those situations that have individuals in the

                 home in sub-par condition.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson, explanation satisfactory?

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Not

                 satisfactory enough not to ask questions, no,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator -

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you.  Thank you, Mr. President.  Through you.

                            Senator LaValle, will the resident

                 facilities that are described in this bill

                 have treatment on-site?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    No.  These

                 homes specifically, Senator -- if you look at

                 Section 3205, it talks about residential





                                                          9856



                 programs that are certified by the

                 commissioner of the Office of Alcoholism and

                 Substance Abuse Services.  These homes exist

                 because people are outside of treatment, have

                 no place else to go to live, and are placed

                 within a home.

                            Now, some of those individuals are

                 in extended treatment programs.  Some may be

                 and should be going to an AA treatment

                 program, to meetings.  Or they may once a week

                 need to go back to the residential facility

                 for some sort of counseling.  But by and

                 large, this is a home.

                            The good homes have supervision,

                 they have a person there that is doing some

                 counseling, giving some direction.  What we

                 are finding, however, as is always the case,

                 there are people that do not want to play by

                 the rules, to have supervision in the house,

                 to have a suitable number of persons living in

                 a house.

                            And so what we are doing is giving

                 the commissioner certain powers.  And by the

                 way, it is possible that the commissioner

                 could promulgate rules and regulations to





                                                          9857



                 cover these homes, but the commissioner has

                 chosen, as of this date, not to go that route.

                 That's why I'm here before this body, to ask

                 for statutory authority that would trigger

                 regulations under Section 3205 of the Mental

                 Hygiene Law.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

                 Through you, Mr. President, that answers my

                 second question, but it doesn't answer some of

                 my others, if the Senator will yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes, I will

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields to another question.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you.

                            You've explained to me, Senator,

                 why OASAS was selected to the monitoring and

                 certifying agency.  But are there any

                 appropriations available to offset the costs

                 that will be associated with this bill?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Not in this

                 bill, Senator.  That would come as a request





                                                          9858



                 from the agency if there needs to be at some

                 further time.  But the answer is no.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    If the

                 Senator will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Mr. President.

                            Senator, you have stated that you

                 are mandating statutory authority to the

                 commissioner -

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    That is

                 correct.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    -

                 that would allow the commissioner then to

                 establish those regulations in the application

                 process for certification for one of these

                 houses; is that correct?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    The answer is

                 if you look at that section, Senator, it

                 begins with a provision that allows the

                 commissioner authority to promulgate certain





                                                          9859



                 regulations.

                            However, this legislation would, by

                 putting in this section, in 3205, would very

                 specifically, as the commissioner issues an

                 operating certificate, the commissioner would

                 do so in the same manner that the commissioner

                 does so for those facilities under Sections 1,

                 2 and 3.

                            And some of those things, Senator,

                 that the commissioner already, under -- when

                 we look at Sections 1, 2 and 3, the

                 commissioner, in issuing an operating

                 certificate, would look at the public need for

                 chemical dependence services to be

                 established, taking into consideration local,

                 regional and statewide need, the character,

                 competence and standing in the community of

                 the person or entity responsible for operating

                 the facility, the overall financial condition

                 of the applicants, the adequacy of the

                 premises and the equipment, the personnel, the

                 records, and the program to provide services.

                            And it goes on and on as to those

                 things that the commissioner would look at in

                 giving a certificate to an applicant or a





                                                          9860



                 provider.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Mr.

                 President, if the Senator would continue to

                 yield.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Then

                 you've just raised another question that

                 wasn't on my list.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    That's all

                 right.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Those

                 facilities that currently exist, would they be

                 grandfathered?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Those

                 facilities, Senator, under their own section,

                 already have been given certificates.  But

                 those homes.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    In

                 Suffolk County?  In Suffolk County?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Throughout the

                 state.  Throughout the state.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I'm

                 sorry, would you repeat that?





                                                          9861



                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Those homes in

                 sections -- those facilities under 3205,

                 subsection 1, 2, and 3, already have met

                 certified -- certification requirements.  What

                 we are adding to this section is those

                 facilities that we call sober homes to the

                 authority and -- the definition and the

                 authority in which the commissioner would

                 regulate.  And that will -

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

                 understand that.  I understand that.  But

                 those that currently do not -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson, if I might -

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I'm

                 sorry, Mr. President, through you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    I'd just

                 like to remind the members from time to time

                 that there is an order of rules and we do try

                 to comply with that.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

                 apologize, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    So if you

                 have another question that you'd like to ask

                 Senator LaValle, that's fine.  This is not the





                                                          9862



                 normal debate process where you can interrupt

                 the other person and that sort of thing.

                            So would you like to ask Senator

                 LaValle another question?

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes, I

                 would, Mr. President, if he would yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.  And let

                 me -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Let me just

                 finish my answer to the previous question.

                            The short answer is that everyone

                 in this circumstance would have to apply for a

                 certificate from the commissioner.  So the

                 answer is yes, everyone would have to -- no

                 one is grandfathered in, everyone would have

                 to apply.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay.

                 Then if the Senator would yield for another

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield to a question?





                                                          9863



                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

                 Through you, Mr. President.  Senator LaValle,

                 you have said that there is an increase and a

                 proliferation of these kinds of facilities in

                 Suffolk County.  Why aren't you asking for

                 this to be directed specifically to Suffolk

                 County and not statewide?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    I suppose we

                 could always do those things, Senator.  And we

                 do from time to time take an issue and deal

                 with it very specifically in our own

                 jurisdiction.

                            Here we have providers that deal

                 not only in Suffolk County but across the

                 state.  And so it is my feeling that we should

                 have, in this issue, one uniform standard for

                 the whole state.

                            Because if it's good for Suffolk

                 County, I believe that it would be helpful

                 indeed to other communities and to the

                 municipalities, at both the county level and

                 the state level, in enforcing the things that





                                                          9864



                 are important in terms of health code

                 violations.  It would help the Department of

                 Social Services to better monitor what is

                 going on for the clients that they or we, the

                 taxpayers, are paying for, and, indeed, for

                 the town officials to deal with the many

                 violations that go on but they can't get

                 inside the home to know whether there are

                 violations.

                            So I think that this is -- when

                 we've dealt with facilities such as this,

                 whether it be for the handicapped or others,

                 we've done it as a statewide bill.  And that's

                 why this fits into this section, 3205, quite

                 honestly very neatly in making it a statewide

                 bill rather than a local bill.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    If the

                 Senator will just yield for a couple more

                 questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank





                                                          9865



                 you, Mr. President.  Through you.

                            Senator LaValle, have you been in

                 touch with any other counties to discuss

                 whether or not this would be injurious to some

                 of their facilities?  Particularly because

                 you're talking about facilities that already

                 exist, may have existed, but would not in fact

                 be grandfathered in but would have to start

                 the application process along with everybody

                 else.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, I have

                 not personally.  But people who are involved

                 in these issues have certainly indicated that

                 the problem is not indigenous to just Suffolk

                 County.

                            And while I say this, I want to

                 repeat once again my remarks, because I don't

                 think we can say it enough times, that the

                 majority of programs could meet this

                 certification requirement because the

                 providers have good reputations, want to do

                 the right thing, want to make sure that there

                 is a seamless process from treatment to a

                 person going out into the community.

                            But so many times we in this body





                                                          9866



                 are constantly protecting the 90 percent from

                 the 10 percent.  And so while most of the

                 providers are doing a good job, there are far

                 too many that are shortchanging the clients

                 that are being dealt with and are not dealing

                 fairly with the communities that they are

                 placing these homes into those communities.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Final

                 question, through you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    What

                 problems, if any, have you encountered or have

                 you been told by the New York State Mental

                 Health Department or from the commissioner

                 that might be a barrier to executing this

                 project?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, I can

                 say this, that from my vantage point -- and

                 I'm here on the floor of this body offering

                 this bill because this agency and the

                 commissioner of the Office of Substance Abuse





                                                          9867



                 Services really has not responded in a way

                 that would deal with the issues that are

                 facing constituents that I represent -- when a

                 community can go and say there are more than

                 30 of these facilities in a community of,

                 let's say, 10,000 people, 15,000 people, and

                 the agency does nothing about it, the comments

                 fall on dead ears that there are clients in

                 substandard living conditions, then I think

                 one of the reasons for government to exist is

                 to protect the health, safety, and welfare of

                 people.

                            This legislation goes to that, both

                 to the clients who are placed in these

                 programs and also to the communities that must

                 deal with an inordinate amount of placements.

                            So I have a situation very

                 specifically where I am told by the civic

                 associations, we have held a press conference,

                 it's come under some public scrutiny, and the

                 number of 30 homes in one community has not

                 been challenged as being wrong.

                            So the commissioner has had a

                 chance to address these problems, the agency

                 as a whole has had an opportunity to address





                                                          9868



                 these problems and has not.  I think this is

                 the appropriate place for us, for the citizens

                 we represent to bring their grievances and

                 have them dealt with in a fair way.  And, I

                 believe, not blocking in any way the ability

                 of good providers from continuing to do what

                 they are doing in providing services and doing

                 it in a user-friendly way in the communities

                 that we represent.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I have

                 one final question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 LaValle, do you yield to one final question?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yeah.  I'm not

                 going anyplace.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    I think

                 that was a yes, Senator.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Okay.

                 The Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Senator.  Through you, Mr. President.  Am

                 I clear, then, that this legislation will give





                                                          9869



                 site-selection control to local communities in

                 terms of the number and the placement of those

                 facilities within the community?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, I will

                 read to you very specifically, so that you are

                 clear -

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I read

                 this.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Okay.  And the

                 answer is there will be criteria or standards

                 that the commissioner will evaluate the public

                 need for chemical dependence services to be

                 established, taking into consideration local,

                 regional and statewide need, the character,

                 competence and standing in the community of

                 the person or entity responsible for operating

                 the facility, the adequacy of the premises,

                 equipment, personnel records, and so forth

                 going on, that such services will be provided

                 in compliance with applicable law and

                 regulations.  And I'm just picking here, some

                 of the provider services will provide

                 residents with continuity of care consistent

                 with treatment and discharge plans.

                            So, yeah, there has to be criteria.





                                                          9870



                 Will that criteria be exclusive?  Not

                 necessarily if you meet the conditions.  And I

                 don't think that any of our communities -- as

                 long as there are standards, that everyone is

                 playing by the same rules, that I think there

                 is a tolerance and has been a tolerance for

                 various residential facilities.

                            But it has to be done in such a way

                 that it does not exclude the current laws that

                 are provided for by our counties and our towns

                 and our villages.  I think they need to be

                 recognized and enforced and enforceable.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    On the

                 bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

                 certainly appreciate, Senator LaValle, your

                 accommodating me with a full-blown

                 explanation.

                            As you may or may not be aware, for

                 close to 25 years of my adult and professional

                 life I have worked with the substance-abusing

                 population in the County of Westchester.  And

                 certainly most and much of what is in this





                                                          9871



                 legislation I would have to be supportive of,

                 both from the professional side and also as

                 someone who has been in local government.

                            I guess the only -- before I get to

                 the concern, let me say too that certainly on

                 the face of this I am very supportive of the

                 attempts of this legislation.

                            The concern that I feel and sense

                 is that even though there is the belief that

                 there will be no fiscal impact on the state to

                 implement this certification, it is going to

                 be impossible for those good facilities, as

                 you describe, to be up and running and to be

                 able to qualify for this criteria should, in

                 fact, that criteria include physical

                 improvements to the facility.

                            And nowhere in the existing budgets

                 is there space and room for the kind of

                 possible renovation, construction,

                 redevelopment in order to meet this criteria.

                            Is that a bad thing?  No.

                 Obviously it's not a bad thing to ask them to

                 bring them up to speed.  But again, without an

                 appropriation, I don't see that this will

                 respond as well as we would need to without an





                                                          9872



                 appropriation.

                            The other thing that becomes really

                 of concern to me is the increasing number of

                 young people, particularly, who, once they

                 become addicted to substances and who are no

                 longer in a treatment facility, but also who

                 are homeless and who find themselves in a lot

                 of these facilities around in the County of

                 Westchester.

                            And I'm not sure that you have the

                 homeless population in Suffolk that we do in

                 Westchester and in the Bronx and Lower

                 Manhattan.  But certainly I would say to you

                 that the numbers of people who are addicted

                 and who continue to be in a perpetual state of

                 recovery find themselves in a homeless

                 situation.  And for them, the kind of

                 residential facilities there aren't nearly

                 enough.

                            And the difficulty is that there

                 are some communities that are more forthcoming

                 in terms of providing facilities than others.

                 There are communities that -- you know, we

                 talk about affordable housing.  This is

                 something that's really very -- not on the





                                                          9873



                 cutting edge for a lot of communities to

                 provide for a population that people would

                 just like not to believe exists.

                            But these are people who belong to

                 our families and our communities, and

                 certainly there needs not only to be the

                 corrective measures that you are describing in

                 this legislation to ensure that the ability of

                 people to be in a residential facility that

                 speaks better to their total recovery or

                 better opportunity for recovery than where

                 they physically are, but we need an increased

                 number.

                            And so it would be my concern if

                 the hidden attempt within this legislation

                 would be to control the numbers of facilities

                 that could come to a community.

                            Having said all that, I am

                 appreciative of your efforts and those of

                 Department of the Community Mental Health in

                 terms of attempting to regulate, to upgrade

                 the facilities that do exist in our

                 communities.  Because certainly I know that

                 our local building departments are always

                 stymied in terms of how do they address some





                                                          9874



                 of the problems that are brought to them by

                 community persons.  And there needs to be an

                 agency that is responsible for the monitoring

                 and certifying.

                            But I would just encourage us as we

                 do this to recognize that there is going to be

                 a need for an appropriations attached to this

                 to ensure the success of what your goals and

                 your objectives are in this bill.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Hearing none, the debate is closed.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.





                                                          9875



                 President.  Would you please call up Calendar

                 1165.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1165, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5550, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 conditional hiring.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    An

                 explanation of Calendar Number 1165 has been

                 requested, Senator Saland.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Mr. President, as you may recall,

                 last year this house and the Assembly passed

                 legislation which was signed by the Governor

                 which provided for the fingerprinting of all

                 school employees.  Among the various

                 provisions of the bill, one was the effective

                 date, the effective date of July 1 of this

                 year.

                            What has occurred is that I and

                 perhaps many of you have been contacted by our





                                                          9876



                 respective school districts telling us that

                 there are some logistical problems in terms of

                 getting the new hires through this process

                 with the July 1 effective date.  And they are

                 concerned that come the 1st of September or

                 soon thereafter when school will start that

                 this process will not have effectively run its

                 course.

                            In order to respond to the needs

                 that have been expressed by the School Boards

                 Association and various school districts, and

                 to deal with the issue of temporary hires as

                 well, we are endeavoring to accommodate those

                 schools in the following fashion.

                            What we are going to attempt to do

                 here is to say that for those school districts

                 who wish to exercise this option -- because it

                 will not be required of the school district -

                 to hire conditional employees pending their

                 certification or criminal background check

                 which is accomplished through fingerprinting,

                 they must establish first a safety policy.

                            Secondly, every conditional

                 employee must sign an affidavit with respect

                 to his or her criminal record or lack thereof





                                                          9877



                 and must have their fingerprints taken.  Those

                 fingerprints will then be forwarded, in the

                 ordinary course of business, on to DCJS, the

                 Division of Criminal Justice Services, through

                 the Ed Department, and at that point the

                 process of the fingerprint screen will begin.

                            It's anticipated that that process

                 will probably take no more than two weeks.

                 And those are not necessarily school days or

                 business days, but 10 days to two weeks.

                            Assuming a clearance -- and DCJS is

                 responsible for maintaining criminal records

                 of those crimes which have occurred in the

                 State of New York -- that person, with the

                 approval of the school board, would then have

                 the ability to be hired as a conditional

                 employee, subject to the FBI screen.

                            Now, the FBI screen takes anywhere

                 from 30 to 45 days.  What we've done here is

                 to craft a mechanism to deal with the hiring

                 of conditional employees that has not only an

                 optional component but a public safety policy

                 requirement of the school district with

                 respect to the oversight of children by

                 employees who are conditional employees, an





                                                          9878



                 affidavit the violation of which would be, in

                 the first instance, the commission of a crime

                 for filing a false instrument, and, in the

                 second instance, grounds for immediate

                 termination, and also a screen by the Division

                 of Criminal Justice Services.

                            In some instances there may be

                 emergency situations, situations in which it

                 becomes imperative to provide somebody in

                 either a classroom or a school setting.  And

                 if you look at page 2 of the bill, in lines 11

                 through 14 we define what constitutes an

                 emergency vacancy.  And we say that an

                 emergency vacancy shall mean an unforeseen

                 vacancy which must be immediately filled to

                 maintain services which the districts are

                 legally required to provide or services

                 necessary to protect the health or safety of

                 students or staff.

                            In those emergency situations, all

                 of the conditions which I listed or mentioned

                 previously -- again, optional by the school

                 district -- the public safety or school safety

                 policy that they be required to adopt the

                 affidavit, the taking of the fingerprints.  In





                                                          9879



                 that particular situation, the school, should

                 it choose to do so by a vote of its board,

                 could hire a conditional or temporary

                 employee.

                            Again, this is an effort to deal

                 with initially the significant numbers of

                 people who have to be placed in this process

                 this year due to the July 1 effective date.

                 Thereafter, it's not anticipated, because of

                 the numbers of people who will have gone

                 through the process and the fact that the law

                 will be effective on the books from July 1

                 henceforth, that the problem in terms of

                 numbers would not be anywhere near as

                 demanding.

                            Questions with regard to temporary

                 or conditional employees certainly would still

                 be there, and we believe that this bill

                 effectively addresses those issues.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if Senator Saland would yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator





                                                          9880



                 Saland, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Paterson?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, why

                 is what we're proposing in this legislation

                 only available in districts outside of

                 New York City?  Is New York City any better

                 prepared than the outlying areas and

                 districts?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    This legislation

                 in effect piggybacks on the legislation that

                 we enacted last year, the more comprehensive

                 or omnibus legislation.

                            Our bill last year did not deal

                 with the school system in the City of New

                 York.  It dealt with those schools outside of

                 the City of New York.  It was felt at the time

                 that the City of New York had a system, that

                 the City of New York system is one with which

                 they apparently had a degree of comfort, and

                 they at the time certainly indicated no

                 interest in being part of this particular





                                                          9881



                 proposal.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if Senator Larkin would yield to one last -

                 I'm sorry, if Senator Saland would yield to

                 one last question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to one last question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I may want

                 Senator Larkin while I'm here.

                            I notice that there's no Assembly

                 cosponsor in this legislation.  Now, the

                 issues of the schools feeling that they need

                 more time to be in compliance is certainly

                 widespread.  Many of us have heard from the

                 schools.  There's an article in the newspaper

                 today, I believe it was in the New York Times,

                 about that same issue.  But I just wanted to

                 know, so that we can meet the obligations or

                 the needs of the schools, where does this bill

                 stand in the Assembly?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    We are





                                                          9882



                 negotiating with the Assembly.  My prior

                 version of this bill was in fact sponsored by

                 Assemblywoman Matusow, who also was involved

                 in negotiations in the original legislation.

                            And I would certainly hope and

                 would like to reasonably expect that we will

                 come to a conclusion in a satisfactory fashion

                 in time to beat the July 1 deadline.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, explanation satisfactory?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, it is.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hevesi, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Would the sponsor please yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Hevesi?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.





                                                          9883



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            My first question is, I remember in

                 the Education Committee voting on a bill very

                 similar to this.  Is this a different print?

                 And if so, can you differentiate between the

                 version that came through Education and this

                 one?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

                 Senator.  This is an amended version.  And I

                 believe in my response to Senator Paterson I

                 may have alluded to that.

                            What this bill does is it sets up

                 primarily one, I think, major distinction here

                 between this and the original bill.  We

                 provide for the involvement of DCJS in all of

                 those -- I'm sorry, the DCJS clearance in all

                 of those situations other than emergency

                 situations.

                            So there's at least one filter or

                 screen.  So that when somebody who is proposed

                 to be a conditional employee in a situation

                 which is not an emergency situation is being

                 processed, they would at the very least have

                 to clear the DCJS criminal investigation or





                                                          9884



                 criminal clearance.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            Mr. President, would the sponsor

                 continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question from

                 Senator Hevesi?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            This is obviously a much better

                 version than the version that came through the

                 Education Committee, which would have allowed

                 school districts who have a pressing need to

                 hire teachers, albeit conditionally, without

                 the background check.  And so I believe the

                 major difference in this is it simply

                 restricts that to emergency situations as you

                 defined in the bill.

                            I have a couple of questions.  The

                 first is, since the checks have to go through

                 DCJS, and it's the time constraints in order

                 to do that that have proven problematic, is





                                                          9885



                 there any requirement in state law or have you

                 considered putting in a requirement that DCJS

                 must accept and process these applications

                 before other applications so that we don't

                 actually have a need to exempt anybody from

                 the requirement that the teachers be fully

                 checked before they get in a classroom?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I believe in the

                 first paragraph of the bill there's a

                 provision for prompt notification -- there's

                 an effort to provide for prompt notification

                 of a school district by DCJS upon a review of

                 a prospective conditional employee.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            I understand that.  But it does not

                 say that DCJS must process applications that

                 are -- that come from school districts who





                                                          9886



                 have said this is an emergency situation,

                 please process this first.  And it seems to me

                 that if we did that, we might solve this

                 problem entirely without putting anybody at

                 risk, as I think ultimately this bill could

                 wind up doing.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The system we

                 feel confident will not present any problems

                 on the DCJS portion of the equation.  The

                 clearance has to come through SED.  SED

                 becomes the conduit, the State Education

                 Department.

                            We have no reason to assume that

                 DCJS will not be able to take care of these

                 clearances in any time period that's greater

                 than what's been represented to us, which is,

                 as I said, about 10 days to two weeks.

                            SED becomes -- again, I use the

                 term "filter."  They're the ones that notifies

                 the school district, they're the ones who

                 notifies the school district as to whether

                 somebody is cleared or not.  And when I made

                 reference to the commissioner, my reference

                 really should have been made to the Education

                 Department's commissioner.





                                                          9887



                            And that is the clearance or the

                 notice that ultimately comes to the district.

                 It doesn't come directly from DCJS.  DCJS does

                 all the processing, but the Ed Department is

                 the repository for all this information and it

                 is really the authority that says either

                 you're clear or you're not clear, depending

                 upon what they get from the DCJS and the FBI

                 ultimately.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 will the sponsor continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            I'm a little bit confused.  Is the

                 reason that we need this legislation the fact

                 that the fingerprinting process is too lengthy

                 and we have to get teachers into a classroom

                 before they're cleared, and it's the

                 fingerprinting aspect?  Or is it the State

                 Education Department, which has as a component





                                                          9888



                 getting the fingerprints from DCJS, is it SED

                 that is the problem?

                            I thought it was the fingerprinting

                 that was the real problem.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The reason we

                 need the bill -- and I'll make reference to I

                 believe the article that Senator Paterson

                 referred to earlier.  I think they said that

                 they anticipated processing some 60,000 school

                 employees.  And I'm referring to a Times Union

                 article.  I don't recall who the spokesperson

                 was.

                            Inasmuch as there have been no

                 regulations to date, and the effective date is

                 the 1st of July, they have a significant

                 number of people that they have probably two

                 months or so to process.  In addition, there

                 will be, as cases arise, provisional or

                 emergency situations, whether it be due to

                 some injury befalling a staff member or a

                 teacher, and somebody will have to be hired.

                            The problem now is an

                 administrative one, in the first instance,

                 this abundance of applications that's going to

                 come through the system.  In the second





                                                          9889



                 instance, there is a natural delay that's

                 built into the process, which perhaps if there

                 were only a handful might not be as difficult.

                 But when you're processing as many as 60,000

                 applications, by the time it gets to DCJS and

                 by the time they do their criminal screen -

                 and again, the FBI is out of this mix for our

                 purposes, or immediate purposes -- you're

                 talking a turnaround time, DCJS only, of

                 10 days to two weeks, as I said earlier.

                            And there will be some time that

                 will be added on by the Ed Department on

                 either end of that process.  How much time?  I

                 would imagine a matter of several days,

                 perhaps two or three days going each way as

                 they process these things.  Whether that time

                 will be reduced as there are fewer numbers to

                 deal with remains to be seen.  I would

                 reasonably expect that it would be.

                            So it's a combination of the

                 numbers, the fact that it's a new, in effect,

                 program being initiated, and the need to have

                 the fingerprints.  So it's not solely one

                 factor.  But if you're looking for a factor, I

                 would say that the principal concern -- if you





                                                          9890



                 only want one, if you want my biggest concern,

                 my biggest concern would be the fingerprints.

                 But again, it's not exclusive.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question from

                 Senator Hevesi?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Let me lay it

                 out this way, because I really -- I'm going to

                 make every suggestion I possibly can to avoid

                 what this bill would allow, which is teachers

                 to be in classrooms without having been

                 fingerprinted and cleared.  They will have

                 been fingerprinted, they won't have been

                 cleared.  I think that is an awful thing to do

                 in terms of public policy.

                            I understand that there is a need

                 there, but I'm going to make a suggestion here

                 that I think would obviate that need.  This

                 bill would say that if you have an emergency





                                                          9891



                 situation in your school district that you

                 would not have to wait until a teacher is

                 cleared through their fingerprints to put that

                 teacher in a classroom.

                            My suggestion is, since there are

                 60,000-some-odd applicants goes through SED

                 and, by extension, going through DCJS, that we

                 mandate in law that any school district that

                 proves that they are in an emergency

                 situation, that by law those applications

                 both, through SED and through DCJS, are

                 processed first and immediately.  And as a

                 result, we wouldn't have a delay and we

                 wouldn't be able to then have a situation

                 where we're saying, okay, go into a classroom

                 before we've cleared you.

                            Why don't we do that, Senator?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, let me

                 give you a couple of responses.  First, we

                 actually thought that this problem was taken

                 care of when we passed the legislation.  The

                 Ed Department felt that the bill did not give

                 them specific enough direction to deal with

                 the issues of temporaries or conditionals.

                            But let me give you an example of





                                                          9892



                 perhaps one of the major problems.  As you

                 know, there are children with special needs in

                 school districts.  The federal government

                 requires that they have teachers' aides.  If

                 you do not have a teacher's aide with that

                 child pursuant to his or her IEP, individual

                 education plan, if you do not have one within

                 10 days, then you have to home-school the

                 child.

                            I would say that you're probably

                 talking hundreds, perhaps, maybe even

                 thousands of instances in which you would have

                 a person who, simply because of the federal

                 requirement, would be incapable of being

                 screened regardless of what priority you gave,

                 because you couldn't get it done in 10 days.

                            So you would then be in violation

                 of the federal law to provide these IEPs, and

                 you would have to accommodate by

                 home-schooling each and every one of these

                 children who would otherwise have a teacher's

                 aide.

                            So it doesn't lend itself to an

                 easy answer.  If it was there, we would have

                 found it already.  I appreciate your





                                                          9893



                 suggestion, but it's just not a

                 one-size-fits-all universe.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question from

                 Senator Hevesi?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.

                            I guess it's possible that there's

                 a situation where the school district doesn't

                 have anybody to come in and take over the role

                 of an unforeseen vacancy.  Unlikely, but

                 possible.

                            And I'll address why I still don't

                 think it's a good idea when I speak on the

                 bill.  But even if I accept what you've said,

                 I don't believe that that's an argument

                 against requiring in law that any emergency

                 situation that arises should be met by SED and

                 DCJS with a response that those are the

                 applications that are immediately processed.

                            And it seems to me that if they did





                                                          9894



                 that, we might be able to hire these teachers

                 much more expeditiously than even the process

                 that exists today.

                            Why don't we do that also is my

                 question, Senator.  Is there a good reason not

                 to do that?  I don't know why we wouldn't.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Reason not to

                 do -

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Not to require

                 in law that emergency situations on an

                 application by a school district are met with

                 a required response by SED and DCJS that those

                 applications are processed ahead of the other

                 60,000 applications and therefore would be

                 cleared or not cleared, which is the point

                 here, immediately or as quickly as possible.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    What you would

                 wind up doing, effectively, would be to

                 slow -- I believe to slow down the entire

                 process.  Because this determination is going

                 to be made on a case-by-case basis by the Ed

                 Department.

                            The mere fact that the school says

                 it's an emergency doesn't mean that SED is

                 going to agree that it's an emergency.  They





                                                          9895



                 may declare that it's an emergency hire, but

                 somebody has to make that ultimate

                 determination at SED.  And if they're going to

                 be inundated by a series of requests for

                 emergency hires, then they could well find

                 themselves in a situation where everything

                 else gets put to the side.

                            We've constructed here a system

                 which we believe works.  We certainly, when we

                 crafted the initial legislation, were greatly

                 concerned about providing safety in school

                 settings for children.

                            Incidentally, the classic profile,

                 under testimony by experts on the subject, is

                 generally of a person who ingratiates

                 himself -- of the pedophile or the sexual

                 predator in the classroom who ingratiates

                 himself or herself and over a period of time,

                 in effect by bolstering the rapport between

                 that employee and student, gains the

                 confidence and then takes advantage of and

                 abuses the student.

                            I think the likelihood of that

                 being a major occurrence or even a minor

                 occurrence in a situation in which this





                                                          9896



                 process is going to run probably no more than

                 45 days, certainly at the outset -

                 absolutely, I would think, 60 days as you wait

                 for the FBI response -- I just don't think

                 that it really represents a clear and present

                 danger or an imminent danger to our students.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 would the sponsor continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            With the greatest of respect for

                 the sponsor, I completely disagree and would

                 put the question to the sponsor -- I

                 understand that New York City is not included

                 in this bill.  I'm glad it's not.

                            But let me suggest to you by way of

                 a question that one of the reasons New York

                 City may not be included in this bill -- and

                 here's the question -- are you aware, Senator,





                                                          9897



                 that one in every 20 applicants for New York

                 City teaching positions result in a criminal

                 background hit that there was a criminal

                 history?  One out of every 20 people who apply

                 to be a teacher in New York City have a

                 criminal history.  Are you aware of that?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I'm aware that

                 about 5 percent, which would be your one in

                 20, of employees.  And I don't know if

                 employees -- if your definition being limited

                 to teachers is accurate.  But of people

                 applying for employment in the City of New

                 York have a criminal background.  I didn't

                 think it was limited to teachers.  I believe

                 it was all school employees.

                            And again, I would repeat what I

                 said before.  Please be mindful of the fact

                 that this is optional.  If a school doesn't

                 want to do it, it doesn't have to do it.

                            They must establish a policy that

                 provides for public safety of the child or

                 security of the child.  They must sign an

                 affidavit which says they have no criminal

                 record or disclose that criminal record, the

                 violation of which, by making a false





                                                          9898



                 statement, would be at the very least an A

                 misdemeanor; whether it would be an E felony

                 would be another question.

                            And there would be, depending upon

                 the circumstances -- certainly in the case of

                 the special ed kids that I mentioned before,

                 there would probably be supervision and

                 there's -- there would have to be supervision.

                            And there is nothing in this bill

                 that would prevent the school district from

                 requiring supervision.  If they're concerned

                 about their liability, they certainly could

                 require supervision.  If they're concerned

                 about their liability, they could choose not

                 to hire anybody provisionally until such time

                 as they had secured a clearance.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President,

                 will the sponsor continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.  And





                                                          9899



                 I'll ask one or two more questions and then

                 speak on the bill.

                            Here are my concerns.  One is that

                 the school district that's making the

                 application, saying this is an emergency

                 situation, is by definition in a bad place.

                 They're the ones who are short of teachers, as

                 so many school districts in New York State

                 are, and they are therefore, by definition,

                 interested in getting teachers into the

                 classroom and may be much more likely to go

                 ahead and file this emergency application.

                 I'm not sure whether they should be the

                 arbiters of whether or not this is a good

                 idea.

                            Secondly, the question as to

                 whether or not a school district would then in

                 every circumstance require additional

                 supervision, if you think that's a good idea,

                 Senator -- and I certainly do -- why don't we

                 put it in the bill that if you go ahead and do

                 this and you get the approval to do it, that

                 there is the additional element that before

                 the fingerprints come back and you get the

                 full clearance by SED and DCJS that anybody





                                                          9900



                 who has been conditionally hired has to be in

                 the classroom with another adult, even if that

                 other adult doesn't have the same credentials?

                            I mean, is that not -- why are we

                 opening this up?  This is dangerous, is it

                 not?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    We're not

                 opening it up because when we required

                 fingerprinting of school bus drivers, we did

                 the same thing.  And that preceded my bill of

                 last year.  We permitted conditional hires of

                 school bus drivers subject to criminal

                 clearance without any supervision.

                            So this is not precedent-setting.

                 I hope you don't think it is.  And we have

                 really put on many more bells and whistles,

                 considerably more, than were provided when the

                 law was enacted for conditional hiring of

                 school bus drivers.

                            I have enough faith in school

                 districts to say that those that exercise

                 their judgment, if they determine that there's

                 an issue of discomfort, they don't have to do

                 it at all.  If they determine that they

                 require supervision in some situation, they





                                                          9901



                 can.  And as I said, in certain situations

                 they will have no choice.  Certainly that will

                 be the case in special education.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Mr. President, a

                 final question for the sponsor if he would

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields to a final question.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Just a question

                 clarifying your last response.  Is it the case

                 right now that school bus drivers in New York

                 State can be hired conditionally and be alone

                 with children before they have gotten their

                 clearance from SED and DCJS?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    When the

                 legislation was enacted -- and it's still in

                 the law -- it provided for conditional hiring

                 of school bus drivers.  Whether, again, that

                 was a -- whether that represented an

                 administrative problem at the time because of

                 the effective date, I can't tell you.





                                                          9902



                            But if you look up the law, if you

                 look up the statute -- I can't give you the

                 section off the top of my head -- you will see

                 the language that says that school bus drivers

                 can be hired conditionally without need for

                 supervision.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Currently?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Currently.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  I thank the sponsor for his

                 patience and his extended answers.  I

                 appreciate that.

                            Let me say at the outset, this bill

                 is much better than the bill that went through

                 the Education Committee.  But the fact that we

                 passed the bill -- and I voted against this,

                 and Senator Stavisky voted against it, and I

                 believe a number of my colleagues did -- the

                 fact that we had another bill which would have

                 opened this up to anybody without the caveat

                 in this bill that says it's a narrow situation





                                                          9903



                 lends some credibility and some concern that I

                 have to the notion that this idea that we're

                 going to now accept emergency applications,

                 that these emergency applications are going to

                 be really widespread because there are a ton

                 of school districts in the state who want to

                 hire more teachers.

                            Let me say flat out, this is not a

                 good idea.  And I'll go one step further than

                 Senator Saland was willing to go and say that

                 even if some students wound up not having a

                 qualified teacher or a certified teacher in

                 their classroom for some short period of time,

                 which I think is probably unlikely, that that

                 is better, that is better than having somebody

                 in the classroom alone interacting with

                 children before we know whether they have a

                 criminal history.

                            Flat out, I'd rather those kids be

                 supervised by somebody who's not a teacher

                 than take a chance, as remote as that chance

                 may be, that something bad could happen.

                 Particularly in light of all the horrible

                 incidents that have occurred in New York City.

                 We had a teacher in the Bronx who had an





                                                          9904



                 unbelievable extended criminal history not too

                 long ago.  And this type of legislation, I

                 believe without a shadow of a doubt, will

                 result at some point in some location with

                 kids in a classroom with nobody else in the

                 classroom except for somebody who has not been

                 cleared by DCJS, and that person may or may

                 not have a criminal record, and somebody will

                 have a criminal record.

                            How do we know this?  We know

                 because in the State of Washington, 4 percent

                 of all their applicants for school positions

                 had criminal records.  In New Jersey, Mr.

                 President, 1 percent of all applicants for

                 school positions came up with hits for

                 criminal backgrounds.  That's one in a

                 hundred.  And most startlingly, in New York

                 City, one out of every 20 applicants for a

                 psychological position had a criminal

                 background.  Okay?

                            And let me tell you something.  On

                 the application to apply, I'm pretty sure that

                 the question is put to these individuals:  Do

                 you have a criminal background?  Irrespective

                 of the fact that they are going -- and I see





                                                          9905



                 Senator Marcellino nodding his head, as a

                 former schoolteacher.  They are asked that

                 question on the application, Do you have a

                 criminal background?  And one in 20 in

                 New York City said no, then went through the

                 check and, bang, there was a hit.  They lied.

                            So despite Senator Saland's

                 suggestion that the fact that they would be

                 committing another crime by filing a false

                 instrument by saying that no, they don't have

                 a criminal history, that wasn't a deterrent

                 for one out of 20 applicants for New York City

                 positions.

                            And the fact that New York City

                 does have the strenuous check and there will

                 be no exemptions because they're not covered

                 under this bill is another reason why we

                 should not do this bill.  And here's the

                 logic.  If everybody knows when they apply to

                 become a schoolteacher in New York City that

                 they will not get into a classroom before

                 there is a criminal background check and they

                 know that in certain circumstances, pursuant

                 to the passage of this bill, that there are

                 other school districts in the state where they





                                                          9906



                 could, they might as well go into other school

                 districts and apply in other school districts,

                 with the perception and the reality in some

                 cases that there is a more lenient standard in

                 other areas.

                            So this is a big mistake.  I would

                 never, never, never take this risk,

                 particularly in light of all the problems that

                 we've had in New York City and elsewhere.

                            I know Senator Saland doesn't want

                 to compromise the safety of any child.  But to

                 suggest that by saying that we require the

                 school district (a) to show an emergency

                 situation and (b) to then, and with this

                 nebulous phrase, you know, provide for the

                 safety or ensure the safety, why are we

                 leaving it open to people who have the

                 problem, who are so desperate for teachers

                 that they need to circumvent the security

                 process, why are we leaving it to these folks

                 to be more restrictive in their process when

                 they're by definition the ones who have the

                 most pressing need and are least likely to be

                 concerned with the security needs?  They are.

                 They need to get more teachers in.





                                                          9907



                            So it's less likely that these

                 school boards are going to put additional

                 supervision in there, because they don't have

                 these resources.  They're also more likely to

                 be the ones who file the emergency

                 applications.  And so why are we asking them

                 to police themselves when we have people who

                 are going to now say, go ahead into the

                 classroom, be with our children though we have

                 not proven yet that you are not a criminal?

                            This is just a bad, bad idea.  And

                 I can almost guarantee that somebody with a

                 criminal background is going to wind up in a

                 classroom with our kids.  It's almost a

                 guarantee.  I just -- I cannot see doing this.

                 I vehemently opposed the bill that came

                 through the Education Committee.

                            I have a suggestion here, and I,

                 you know, went through this with Senator

                 Saland that, by law, anybody who makes an

                 application that they have an emergency

                 situation in a school district where they have

                 the shortage, and whether that will trigger

                 some other negative implication by law, that

                 would seem to prove the emergency situation,





                                                          9908



                 that SED and DCJS are required in those

                 situations, irrespective of the number of

                 applicants who say they have an emergency,

                 those applicants should be processed first,

                 immediately, ahead of the other 60,000.

                            And to be honest with you, I

                 actually believe that in the overwhelming

                 majority of cases, that will result in a

                 situation where nobody gets in a classroom

                 before they've been cleared.  And those

                 schools who have the emergency situation,

                 those will have the applicants who are cleared

                 first.  And those applicants who are cleared

                 first then and only then will get in a

                 classroom with our kids.

                            This one is clear to me.  I

                 understand that we have this problem.  And to

                 be honest with you nobody, nobody has a bigger

                 teacher shortage than the City of New York.

                 And the problem is going to be exacerbated in

                 the next few years.  We've got a huge

                 shortage.  An attrition rate of New York City

                 public school teachers of 50 percent within

                 the first five years.

                            So we are desperate to get new





                                                          9909



                 teachers into the classroom and, by extension,

                 to process them as soon as possible.  But we

                 would never think of allowing this type of a

                 situation -- every situation in New York City

                 can be classified as an emergency.  We have

                 huge problems in New York City.

                            But not only would nobody from the

                 New York City delegation endorse a bill like

                 this, the sponsor didn't extend the, quote,

                 unquote, benefits of this bill to New York

                 City.  Which of course you shouldn't do.  But

                 New York City is the ultimate example of a

                 school district who, if this bill is necessary

                 for anybody, it's necessary for New York City.

                            Mr. President, this is a bad idea.

                 Somebody will -- this will result in somebody

                 with a criminal history teaching our kids or

                 being alone with our kids.  Even if children

                 as a result of this not passing were sitting

                 and not learning in a classroom, at least we'd

                 know they were protected.  That's more

                 important.

                            I'm against this bill.  I urge all

                 my colleagues to be against this bill.  And

                 though I certainly commend Senator Saland for





                                                          9910



                 trying to address this problem, I really

                 believe we should be addressing it the way I

                 suggested and requiring these applications in

                 emergency situations to be processed

                 immediately, first, before anybody else.  And

                 that way we're protecting our kids.  That's

                 the number-one priority always, above all

                 other concerns.

                            I will be voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Stavisky, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Most of my

                 questions have been answered, but I have two

                 very, very, very quick questions, if the

                 Senator will yield.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Stavisky?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    You explained

                 how this bill differed from the one I opposed

                 in the Education Committee.  Did the previous





                                                          9911



                 bill include charter schools also?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.  It

                 includes all of the same schools that were

                 included in the original legislation.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    All kinds of

                 charter schools?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Charters, BOCES.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Right.  Well,

                 charter schools -- Mr. President, through you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    I recall the

                 previous bill had quite a number of memos in

                 opposition.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Did it?  As far

                 as I know, there were no memos in opposition,

                 only memos in support.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Only memos in

                 support?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Correct.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    What about





                                                          9912



                 this bill?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I haven't

                 received anything, simply because this bill

                 has only been out for a few days.

                            I'm assuming that the same parties

                 that sent the memos in support will probably

                 similarly send memos in support on this bill

                 as well.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Duane, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    I voted against

                 the 2000 version of this bill, and I

                 understand the need to try to fix that bill

                 now.

                            But, you know, call me zealous, but

                 I don't understand why, on an issue of such

                 grave importance, between the year 2000 and

                 now we didn't have a hearing where we called

                 in the local districts and the unions and





                                                          9913



                 State Ed and the commissioner and DCJS and the

                 feds and asked them how this bill could be

                 implemented, if it was necessary at all.  It

                 seems that that would have saved an awful lot

                 of time and pain and it would have answered a

                 lot of these questions by people far more

                 expert in the implementation of it than we

                 are.

                            So once again, it just goes to show

                 that, you know, we stand around talking to

                 each other even though we prove when we pass

                 legislation, like we did in the year 2000,

                 that we actually don't know that much and we'd

                 be better off asking other people what the

                 bills actually would do when they're

                 implemented.

                            So I hope this provides a lesson to

                 us that, you know, maybe we might just

                 consider the tool of having a hearing.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Senator Oppenheimer, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    If the





                                                          9914



                 sponsor would yield for one little question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Oppenheimer?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            If Senator Oppenheimer would

                 indulge me for a moment, I just would like to

                 put Senator Duane's mind at ease.  We held

                 four public hearings at different locations

                 around the state on this bill.  And perhaps

                 that might somehow or other impact his

                 ultimate position on the bill.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer, the Senator yields.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    My question

                 is, what did you say -- I think I didn't hear.

                 What did you say was the amount of time that

                 would transpire when we sent off the

                 information to -

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The clearance to

                 be done by the Division of Criminal Justice

                 Services, DCJS, takes, we're told, 10 to 14

                 days.





                                                          9915



                            The information to be cleared by

                 the FBI takes longer.  We're told it could be

                 anywhere from 30 to as many as 45 days.  It's

                 a process that we can't control.  We can only

                 attempt to avail ourselves of whatever

                 information they provide as quickly as we can.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    On the

                 bill, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer, on the bill.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    You know,

                 reasonable people can arrive at very different

                 conclusions with all honesty and sincere

                 conviction.  I feel this is a bill that we

                 have to support, because I cannot imagine

                 having a classroom with nobody in charge, with

                 no teacher there conducting the class.

                            I cannot see, considering the

                 emergency that does exist in certain areas of

                 our state.  They do not exist in my area, but

                 I do know they exist in other areas.  And if

                 we do not have a teacher to stand in that

                 classroom and, you know, run the class, who

                 are we going to have in there?

                            And I think this is as reasonable





                                                          9916



                 as we can get.  Yes, it would be wonderful if

                 we didn't have this pressure on us and if we,

                 you know, could get the criminal justice

                 checkups done in two days.  But we have to be

                 reasonable and we have to see what the reality

                 is.

                            And to me, the reality is I want

                 someone in that classroom and as soon as

                 possible to get the background checks.  So I

                 think this is a bill that's just the most

                 reasonable and logical answer to the problem.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Will the

                 sponsor yield to a couple of questions, Mr.

                 President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, is





                                                          9917



                 there a student-employee exception in this

                 bill?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Student

                 employee?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mm-hmm.  The

                 school district hires a junior in high school,

                 someone who is in the school building all the

                 time, to go out and work as a groundskeeper.

                 Or in the case I know of, a video -- there's a

                 student at one of the high schools I represent

                 who's apparently a brilliant videographer, so

                 he shoots video of everything that moves in

                 the school district.  They're hiring him for

                 the summer as an employee, and the question is

                 whether they have to fingerprint him.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The criteria for

                 determining whether you're printed has nothing

                 to do with whether you're a student employee

                 or a regular employee.  It's whether you have

                 regular contact with students.

                            So if he's a student employee who

                 has regular contact with students or she is a

                 student employee who has regular contact with

                 students, they would have to be fingerprinted.

                            You won't find that in this bill.





                                                          9918



                 You will find that in the bill that we did

                 last year.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if Senator Saland will continue

                 to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator,

                 would you think an amendment to create an

                 exception for student employees might be

                 reasonable given the cost, the administrative

                 problems, all the issues that prompt this bill

                 in the first place?  That is, that there are

                 going to be lots of these applications.  Do

                 you think that a student exception to this

                 bill would be appropriate?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    It's certainly a

                 case of first impression.  As I mentioned a

                 bit earlier when I was responding at least in

                 part to Senator Duane's comments, we held four

                 public hearings in different locales in the





                                                          9919



                 state.  I'm sure, if my memory serves me

                 correctly, we probably held one in Western

                 New York also.

                            We never heard any mention of any

                 issue involving student employees.  I'll be

                 very happy to take a look at it, Senator

                 Dollinger.  I'm not sure quite what the

                 universe consists of similarly impacted

                 student employees.  But I'd certainly be happy

                 to take a look at it, Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I must confess

                 my counsel just mentioned to me, and

                 rightfully so, that if he or she was a

                 juvenile, they would be sealed records and

                 wouldn't show up on a DCJS search.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    That too is

                 an interesting question.

                            Through you, Mr. President, this

                 statute, the proposal, this proposal includes

                 the phrase "conditional appointment."  Is that





                                                          9920



                 a phrase contained in either the Civil Service

                 Law or under the Education Law?  I mean, I've

                 heard the term "probationary employee,"

                 "probationary teacher," but I've never heard

                 the phrase "conditional appointment" as a

                 civil service designation.

                            And my question is, how does that

                 phrase work in with all that other mass of law

                 that we have out there that governs public

                 employees?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The term is one

                 which was provided us in the course of our

                 discussions and negotiations with SED.  They

                 provided that as the term of art to use.  And

                 whether it's used elsewhere in the Education

                 Law, I honestly couldn't tell you.

                            My assumption is the clear meaning

                 of the language, you are employed

                 conditionally unless and until such time as

                 either you're told that you shouldn't be

                 employed, for whatever reason, or at which you

                 become an unqualified employee.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    A final

                 question, through you, Mr. President, just so

                 I can make sure I understand this.





                                                          9921



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Saland, this may involve an interpretation of

                 last year's bill, the bill we did last year as

                 well.

                            The fingerprints come through,

                 either DCJS or the FBI, and there's a

                 determination made not to clear.  Is that

                 determination binding upon the local school

                 district?  Could they create an exception

                 based on their determination about the level

                 of offense, the time from which they've

                 applied, the circumstances of rehabilitation

                 or restitution to, in essence, waive a strict

                 adherence to the disqualification from either

                 DCJS or someone else?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    SED has the

                 ability to say you don't clear.  And if you

                 don't clear, that's pretty well the end of the

                 ballgame.





                                                          9922



                            However, the bill that we did last

                 year included Article 23A, I believe, of the

                 Corrections Law, which sets forth criteria or

                 factors to be considered with regard to

                 somebody who was previously convicted of a

                 crime.  And those factors are laid out and

                 include issues of relevance, remoteness.  And,

                 you know, that would be part of, I'm sure,

                 SED's consideration.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Senator Saland's response has raised just one

                 other question, so I make sure I understand.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Saland, do you yield to another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Who at SED

                 actually makes that determination, and is

                 there a review of that determination?  I

                 assume this is in the prior statute and not -

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Again, that is

                 in the prior statute.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    But who does





                                                          9923



                 make that?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I believe it's

                 the commissioner or his or her designee, and

                 I'm not quite sure who that designee might be.

                 But I don't believe that -- I would reasonably

                 expect that the commissioner would review each

                 and every one of these questionable or perhaps

                 general clearance issues.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just on the

                 bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I assume

                 Senator Saland is finished with his answer.

                            I'm going to vote in favor of this

                 bill.  I understand the articulated reasons

                 from Senator Hevesi about not wanting anyone

                 in our classrooms.  But the complaints that

                 I've heard from the school districts I

                 represent have been largely tailored to the

                 need to hire someone quickly and put them in

                 the classroom.





                                                          9924



                            In the experience at least in the

                 Brighton Central School District and the

                 Greece Central School District, which I

                 represent, when their superintendents came to

                 me they said that oftentimes their hiring

                 letters are not actually delivered until the

                 Friday before school starts.  Because they

                 have so many problems in that last

                 two-or-three-week period with interviewing and

                 figuring out who is going to leave and then

                 someone will retire quickly or someone on

                 maternity leave who they thought would be

                 there for three months receives doctor's

                 instructions that they can't teach and they

                 need a long-term sub, and they run into a

                 tremendous problem of facing the new school

                 year without teachers.

                            And the difficulty is that if they

                 have a disruption in the first 45 days of the

                 school year, it's absolutely devastating to

                 their ability to get those kids transitioned

                 into the classroom.

                            I agree with Senator Hevesi's major

                 premise, which is that no one -- we should

                 make every attempt to prevent anyone with a





                                                          9925



                 criminal record from being in our classrooms.

                 But I think to balance against that, from the

                 school districts that I represent that have

                 come to me on this specific issue and said,

                 This is critically important, otherwise we

                 will have no one in these classrooms, we're

                 just not going to have the teachers -- and in

                 many cases, because they hire so late in the

                 summer season, they would be putting off for

                 45 days, if the FBI is correct -- and, Senator

                 Saland, my guess is, I'm just going to guess,

                 but I'll bet you that at least 50 percent of

                 the FBI clearances don't come back within 45

                 days this year.

                            We may get to a point where, as you

                 properly point out, we don't have the backlog.

                 But I'm willing to bet that the FBI clearance

                 process takes twice that time.  That I would

                 expect 60 to 90 days before the FBI gets done.

                            And the other interesting thing,

                 Senator Saland, is my guess is with those

                 kinds of cases that we discussed a couple of

                 minutes ago -- that is, what constitutes a

                 disqualification, which has to be reviewed by

                 the commissioner, and the questions of





                                                          9926



                 remoteness and appropriateness suddenly become

                 a factor, my expectation is that that

                 clearance will take far more than 15 to 30

                 days.  My guess is that that's going to be -

                 if you're going to do it right, if you're

                 going to give everyone some form of due

                 process and reasonable review, I think that

                 that process alone will take somewhere between

                 30 and 45 days.

                            The consequence is that it could be

                 90 days before someone who's hired the 1st of

                 September actually can show up in the

                 classroom.

                            I understand Senator Hevesi's

                 point, and I think it's a very good one, that

                 we should do everything possible.  But we do

                 have to balance it against the practicality in

                 this year, this year, because of the

                 tremendous impact, first-year impact of this

                 bill, of this law, the last year's law, I

                 think we can balance it reasonably by the

                 school district needs by allowing this

                 legislation to go forward.

                            I would suggest that in future

                 years we should look for other amendments, as





                                                          9927



                 is our practice.  We put a big piece of

                 legislation in place, we realize that there

                 are things we have to work out.

                            And my hope is that someday,

                 Senator Hevesi, we'll be in a position where

                 this review can be done instantaneously,

                 through the Internet and other services, so

                 that we won't even have to run that risk,

                 we'll be able to screen them in 48 years.  Our

                 technology isn't there yet, but we may there

                 that day, and then we'll be able to

                 accommodate, I think, your point as well as

                 Senator Saland's and bring this together so we

                 don't run the risk of having anyone with a

                 criminal record in the classroom with our

                 children.

                            But at this point, given these

                 limitations, I vote yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Senator Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill a second time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    On the

                 bill.





                                                          9928



                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm sorry, I

                 stand corrected that there were four public

                 hearings on this bill.  Although I find it

                 even more bizarre that after four hearings on

                 it that this issue didn't come up.  So there's

                 something terribly wrong there.

                            You know, we can double-check and

                 see if this did come up, but of course we

                 don't keep transcripts of our committee

                 hearings here.

                            And in my own defense, on the

                 Minority task force on the Rockefeller Drug

                 Laws and corrections and SHUs, Senator Smith,

                 Montgomery, and I did put out a report on our

                 meetings and hearings.

                            Maybe there was a report put out.

                 It certainly didn't come to my office.  But

                 maybe in the future it would be a good idea if

                 there were reports put out on committees.

                            I know when I raised with Senator

                 Goodman his moving company committee meetings

                 from 1992 -- when I wasn't here, so I hadn't

                 gotten that report -- he did rush that 1992

                 report over to me.

                            So -- but I do stand corrected if





                                                          9929



                 there were four public hearings.  But again,

                 it's almost more disturbing that even with

                 those hearings that these problems were not

                 anticipated.  So there's something terribly

                 wrong with the system.

                            And I know that the Senator is

                 trying to fix what happened with the 2000 bill

                 now.  But if we can't find out what impact our

                 bills are going to have on people after four

                 public hearings, then I think we're in big

                 trouble.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect on the same date as

                 Chapter 180 of the Laws of 2000.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Marcellino, to explain his vote.

                            Record the negatives.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, I'm going to be supporting this

                 bill, and I think it is a good bill





                                                          9930



                 considering the problem that we are facing.

                            I can go into any store anywhere in

                 the world, I can show them one of these little

                 plastic cards, they can swipe it and get an

                 entire background on me as far as my credit

                 within seconds.  And it doesn't matter,

                 anywhere in the world.

                            We cannot do that on a criminal

                 background check basis.  That just simply

                 isn't available to us at this time.  And as

                 Senator Dollinger and others have so rightly

                 said, you've got to balance need to reality

                 and you've got to put yourself in the real

                 world.  We live in the real world.  The ideal

                 is something we strive for.

                            We have no choice on this one, we

                 have to do this kind of legislation.  The

                 districts that need it need it and will do the

                 kind of safety measures that have to be done

                 in order to protect children.  Without this

                 bill, we are going to put them in very

                 desperate needs and very desperate straits.

                            I vote aye again.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Marcellino recorded in the affirmative.





                                                          9931



                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1165 are

                 Senators Duane, Fuschillo, Hevesi, LaValle,

                 Mendez, Sampson, and Stavisky.  Ayes, 53.

                 Nays, 7.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Would you please call Calendar

                 1157.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Before we

                 do that, Senator Nozzolio, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  I ask unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 310, Assembly Print 1810.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection, hearing no objection, Senator

                 Nozzolio will be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 310.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1157, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5241, an





                                                          9932



                 act in relation to authorizing the City of

                 Jamestown.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 McGee, an explanation of Calendar Number 1157

                 has been requested by Senator Paterson, the

                 Acting Minority Leader.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you very

                 much.

                            This legislation allows the City of

                 Jamestown to transfer four parcels of land to

                 the Gebbie Foundation, which has been

                 designated for public works purposes and is

                 currently being used for public parking.

                            The land transfer would allow for a

                 major downtown redevelopment project to move

                 forward.  Upon completion, the redevelopment

                 project will encompass a new skating rink, a

                 newly constructed hotel, and new parking

                 facilities.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, explanation satisfactory?





                                                          9933



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 I was just wondering if Senator McGee would

                 yield for a few questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 McGee, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, I'm

                 curious as to what the consideration is for

                 this transfer of land.  And what is the nature

                 and service provided by the foundation to

                 which it's going to be transferred?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    The foundation,

                 the Gebbie Foundation, is an outstanding

                 foundation that is very philanthropic to

                 various projects throughout the Chautauqua

                 region.  And they are partnering with the City

                 of Jamestown to undertake a major development

                 in the downtown area.

                            And this bill would authorize that

                 land transfer, which would advance the

                 project.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.





                                                          9934



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if there's no exchange of promises here, if

                 it's just a transfer, does this bill require a

                 two-thirds vote for passage?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    I'm sorry, I

                 don't understand what you're talking about,

                 Senator Paterson.  I'm not sure if you're

                 talking about a transfer of money, et cetera,

                 et cetera.  Is that what you're suggesting?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  If it's a situation where public

                 land is being transferred for -

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Actually, the

                 Gebbie Foundation is taking the lead on this

                 project, and they've already agreed to

                 acquiring the parcels of land for the

                 appraised value of $200,000, which is called

                 the fair market value.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    So that's the

                 consideration that -

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay.  Thank

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?





                                                          9935



                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Marcellino, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

                 President, may I have unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 310.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Without

                 objection -

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    -

                 hearing no objection, Senator Marcellino will

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 310.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 the controversial calendar.





                                                          9936



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1162, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5441,

                 an act to authorize the First Methodist

                 Church.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Secretary will read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1163, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5444, an

                 act to amend the County Law, in relation to

                 wireless telephone service.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Rath, an explanation of Calendar Number 1163

                 has been requested by Senator Paterson, the

                 Acting Minority Leader.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Mr. President,

                 1163 is a fairly simple bill.  It establishes





                                                          9937



                 a uniform procedure for counties that seek to

                 assume responsibility for responding to

                 wireless 911 calls.

                            There are different kinds of ways

                 of response in this state.  In New York City,

                 Long Island, and much of Western New York,

                 wireless calls are handled by the counties.

                 And others go directly through the State

                 Police.  And there is an effort here to get a

                 uniform procedure together for counties.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 this bill was passed unanimously prior, but

                 vetoed by the Governor.  And in the veto

                 message he talks about the standards for the

                 establishment of a board.

                            And although I don't totally

                 understand the rationale of the executive

                 branch for that reason, I wondered if Senator

                 Rath did and had addressed it in this

                 particular legislation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Rath, would you like to respond to that

                 question?





                                                          9938



                            SENATOR RATH:    This bill, Senator

                 Paterson, is a Governor's program bill.  The

                 bill last year was not.  And the problems that

                 he had with last year's bill were addressed.

                            And frankly, there's this issue, I

                 recall this from the days when I was in the

                 county legislature, the idea of standards here

                 of procedure and prompt mobilization.  The

                 number of calls that emanate from people who

                 are actually on the highway and difficult for

                 where they're coming from, because they're

                 actually -- now they won't be talking on

                 their -- or soon, I hope, won't be talking

                 while they're driving -- but the number has

                 gone from 16,000 to 119,000 in the last 10

                 years, from 16,000 to 119,000 emanating from

                 wireless phones.

                            So we really need to address this,

                 and we really need to address who the

                 answering groups are going to be and what kind

                 of standards are going to be expected for

                 their training and staffing and et cetera.

                 This is where this is going to.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.





                                                          9939



                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 60 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1169, by Senator Paterson -

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    May I have

                 an explanation, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, an explanation of Calendar Number

                 1169 has been requested by Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, this bill amends the Criminal

                 Procedure Law by adding a new section, 6047.

                 It speaks to the Rules of Evidence and the

                 admissibility of testimony of out-of-court





                                                          9940



                 statements by minors, children under 12 years

                 of age.

                            The five sections of the bill first

                 require, of course, that the child, the minor

                 under 12 years of age or 12 and under, is

                 unavailable or is unable to testify in a

                 child-sexual-abuse type of a case.

                            The two other sections are also

                 pretty much definitional in the sense that

                 they require that there was a statement made

                 by the child to either a law enforcement

                 agency, to the Office of Children and Family

                 Services, or to a social service agency, and

                 that a written report is included with the

                 child's statement.

                            Secondly, there is also a need to

                 clarify that the statement was made by the

                 child and that the statement was made in the

                 presence of such a party who could report the

                 statement.

                            There are two other sections of the

                 legislation that probably are a little more

                 subjective in their determination.  One calls

                 for what would be a spontaneous and consistent

                 pattern of statements on the part of the





                                                          9941



                 child, that the child's statement speak to -

                 in terms of terminology that would reflect the

                 age of the speaker, making sure that the child

                 was not prepped for these types of statements,

                 and that the statement reflect the mental

                 capacity of the child.

                            The final section of the

                 legislation covers the issue related to the

                 viability of the statement itself, that there

                 is a statement that's made by the child that

                 is not coerced and that there is no motive on

                 the part of the child for making a statement

                 against the interests of the defendant and

                 that the person reporting the statement is not

                 moved by any bias or unfairness that would be

                 held against the defendant.

                            Now, obviously in the last two

                 sections there's some subjectivity and the

                 court is cautioned, in Section 4 of the

                 legislation, to take all deliberate care to

                 make sure that these statements are honest

                 statements that were made, they were

                 consistent statements, and that they were

                 statements that would speak to a child sexual

                 abuse or a sexual offense as defined under





                                                          9942



                 Section 130 of the Penal Law.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    If the

                 sponsor would yield to a couple of questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, do you yield to a question from

                 Senator DeFrancisco?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I don't know.

                 Let me think about it.

                            Yes, Mr. President, of course.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator,

                 are there any other examples in the Criminal

                 Procedure Law where the victim of a crime is

                 not required to testify to face the person who

                 that victim is accusing?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    To be honest,

                 Mr. President, I don't think there should be

                 any other examples.  And in a utopian world, I

                 don't think that even in this particular

                 situation it's most desirable to have the

                 defendant placed in the position where they

                 can't confront their accuser.

                            But it has become the practice in a

                 number of state courts around this country





                                                          9943



                 that we've relaxed the hearsay rule to allow

                 for these types of statements, because

                 generally speaking it's very difficult for

                 children to testify in these types of

                 situations.  A lot of states have gone to

                 videotaping the testimony, and even that

                 hasn't helped particularly.

                            One of the problems that children

                 have where perhaps their initial statements to

                 law enforcement or to social services might be

                 helpful but they're easily impeached is that

                 children don't have a very good concept of

                 time.  So when you ask them how often did this

                 occur or what day it occurred, they have

                 trouble answering the questions.

                            When Senator Volker and I held

                 hearings on this type of proposed legislation

                 in 1992 -- and we held it in five venues, in

                 Syracuse, in Buffalo, in Westchester, Long

                 Island, and New York City -- we found that

                 sometimes if children are 4 or 5 years old,

                 perhaps if they have different parents, if

                 their parents are divorced and each parent

                 gives a birthday party for the child, that the

                 child actually thinks in the same week that





                                                          9944



                 they were 5 and then they were 6.

                            So it's very difficult to obtain

                 this testimony, really because of the mental

                 capacity of children in the first place.

                            So as strongly as I would want to

                 defend the rights of individuals to confront

                 their accusers in this one specific

                 situation -- and there is a court case,

                 Maryland versus Craig, and although it speaks

                 to the videotaping of proceedings, it also

                 speaks to the hearsay rule at times being

                 excepted by the nature of circumstances that

                 would lead one to believe that there is going

                 to be undue suffering on the part of the child

                 who's testifying or that the child is in some

                 way incapacitated by the testimony itself.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Another

                 question, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Who is

                 going to be the source of the information that





                                                          9945



                 the child showed spontaneity and consistent

                 repetition of the facts?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    That of course

                 would be the individuals who interviewed the

                 child, the members of law enforcement or the

                 members of social services.

                            And I think that where there is

                 clear evidence that there's been some type of

                 sexual abuse to the child, it does impinge

                 upon the integrity of the process to the

                 extent that there could be a very strong

                 compulsion on the part of those officials to

                 feel that it was the fault of a particular

                 party who's being accused when, in fact, maybe

                 the offense occurred but it might not have

                 been this particular individual that was

                 accused.

                            And here's where I think the court

                 has to be scrupulously fair to the defendant

                 by recognizing that the defendant isn't really

                 getting the opportunity to question the

                 accuser.

                            And I wouldn't want for this

                 legislation to open the door, as you're

                 suggesting, Senator, to this just becoming a





                                                          9946



                 standard, since it is difficult for children

                 to testify, that no child is invited to

                 testify or that the attorneys representing the

                 child would always claim or the families would

                 claim that they can't testify and then

                 substitute it on a rather familiar basis with

                 this type of testimony.

                            I don't think that this testimony

                 is the best testimony we could receive.  I

                 think the best testimony we could receive is

                 from the individual.  It would only be in

                 those extreme cases where, even though we've

                 relaxed the rules and allowed video testimony

                 and that type of thing, we just are not able

                 to get this type of testimony.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Another

                 question, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So the

                 premise for this bill is that children are





                                                          9947



                 highly impressionable, sometimes it's

                 difficult to get the information out in a

                 coherent fashion, so the solution is to find

                 that information out from a third party who

                 will then give that third party's

                 interpretation to a court, and the court or

                 jury may end up convicting the person on

                 someone else's interpretation of a child

                 that's too impressionable to give the direct

                 testimony.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 if what Senator DeFrancisco is describing were

                 to come to pass, I would be very disappointed

                 myself that I offered this bill.

                            And it is a very valid concern.  If

                 this is going to be manipulated by law

                 enforcement or prosecutors or anyone else who,

                 as benevolent as they might be, acting on

                 behalf of the child, are going to infringe

                 upon the rights of the defendant, then I'd

                 just as soon that we not have the legislation.

                            But the reason that I brought this

                 bill before this body, and the reason why I

                 think it's important, is because it's not the

                 validity of the statements that the children





                                                          9948



                 are making -- because it's my opinion that

                 children very often are not going to tell lies

                 that are going to be more damaging to them

                 than the truth -- it is the fact that it is so

                 difficult for them to testify.

                            Not that they're incoherent when

                 they testify, but that reliving the situation

                 or the tragedy itself in front of other people

                 or being asked those questions over and over

                 or a repeated number of times can inflict harm

                 on the child, according to a lot of

                 psychiatrists and psychologists who have

                 looked into these situations.

                            So my solution was to substitute

                 the adult who on information and belief is

                 giving an honest recounting of what the child

                 said to them at an initial point that the

                 child shared the information, and allowing

                 that adult to share that information later as

                 a hearsay exception.  So that we would

                 certainly not force the child into a situation

                 that would be a double injury compounded with

                 the sexual abuse, then the difficulty having

                 to testify about it.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    On the





                                                          9949



                 bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I certainly

                 don't in any way question Senator Paterson's

                 motive.  I know it's sincere and I know it's a

                 balancing act that we all have to play in

                 important issues such as this one.

                            My concern is, in having had

                 experience in trying cases, and some dealing

                 with Family Court matters, is that children

                 are not only sometimes unwilling or unable or

                 concerned about testifying, or it may hurt

                 their psyche, but the younger the child, the

                 more susceptible to suggestive interview

                 techniques that the child is susceptible to.

                            And there's been celebrated cases

                 which have indicated that and which have ended

                 in not-guilty verdicts and determinations that

                 the investigators -- in this case, Social

                 Services Department investigator -- because of

                 the suggestive nature of the interview have

                 really suggested possible answers to kids that

                 really don't know any better or they'd rather

                 just get the interview over so they could go





                                                          9950



                 home.

                            We have provided protections, I

                 believe, in the video testimony of young

                 children where questions can be asked, people

                 can view the child, people can make their own

                 determination in the nonintimidating

                 atmosphere of a trial.  And it's really

                 important that we have made those types of

                 decisions.

                            But these are criminal cases that

                 we're talking about.  These are cases that

                 carry with them substantial penalties.  These

                 are cases that could make an individual

                 branded for life on a sex offender's registry.

                 These are charges that could ruin somebody's

                 life if there was suggestion -- and I don't

                 care how objective an interviewer might want

                 to be or claim that they are, there's going to

                 be some subjective determinations, and there's

                 no way a cross-examiner could possibly test

                 the veracity of those subjective

                 determinations without at least having the

                 opportunity to interview a child.

                            So despite the good intentions, in

                 my mind, in weighing all of these factors, I





                                                          9951



                 think since we have videotaping available of

                 young children it's very, very difficult for

                 me to believe that the constitutional right to

                 confront your accuser doesn't apply to people

                 charged with a certain offense.

                            So as a result of that, I am going

                 to vote no on this particular legislation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Paterson, on the bill.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    This is not

                 the most preferred remedy that I could think

                 of on this particular situation.

                            In my opinion, the best remedy

                 would be if we were to toll the statute of

                 limitations on these types of crimes, which

                 currently runs five years, and allow the

                 statute to start running when the victim

                 reaches the age of majority, which could be 21

                 years of age.  Now we're asking the adult to

                 testify, and we're asking the adult to testify

                 about what they remember happened in their





                                                          9952



                 childhood.  Even though we would have turned

                 the clock back a longer period of time and put

                 the defendant in a difficult situation because

                 the information and evidence is not fresh, we

                 are still asking the complaining witness to

                 testify in this particular case.

                            If we're not going to do it that

                 way -- and I've had that legislation here for

                 14 years, and we haven't done it that way -

                 we do have to address the fact that even

                 though we do have the videotaping prerogative

                 available that it really has not been

                 particularly successful, and that most who

                 have studied these types of situations find

                 that the children are a lot more responsive

                 when they are initially asked the question

                 than when they are asked in further

                 interviews, particularly those conducted with

                 cameras and new people that they've never met

                 before.

                            So in those types of situations, we

                 have to, as Senator DeFrancisco said, balance

                 the fairness of the protections against the

                 defendant with the fact that prosecutor after

                 prosecutor in this state -- and Senator





                                                          9953



                 Gentile, who is a cosponsor of this bill, and

                 I were prosecutors in the same office -- keep

                 finding that you just can't get the witnesses

                 in even though there's strong evidence that

                 there is an opportunity to convict in these

                 particular cases.

                            And so the solution that I bring

                 before the house today is that we allow for

                 third parties who are professionals who are in

                 law enforcement situations and in social

                 service remedies to testify as to what they

                 heard the child say.

                            Now, although the victim isn't

                 given the opportunity to confront the

                 complaining witness in this situation, there

                 are other exceptions to the hearsay rule where

                 we do accept what one party said about

                 another.  And I think this probably would be

                 the most apt situation where we should meet

                 that acceptance, because the defendant can

                 question the party to see whether or not the

                 judge or the jury feels that this person is

                 honestly reporting what they heard the child

                 say.  And I think it's a valid remedy.

                            As for Senator DeFrancisco's





                                                          9954



                 concern, it's one that troubles me and one

                 that I get up and talk about in situations

                 involving criminal justice legislation on this

                 floor every day, that the defendant has to be

                 afforded every possible right to clear

                 themself of the actual charges.

                            And the ramifications of child

                 sexual abuse convictions are probably the

                 worst, even including murder itself.  That

                 someone would victimize a minor in this

                 fashion is going to create a huge stigma on

                 the individual, and we have decided even after

                 their incarceration that there should be

                 community notification of their actions.

                 That's how severe the effect of conducting

                 this type of an action is.

                            But when you realize what the

                 damage is to the victim, the dissociative

                 responses, the multiple personality

                 affectation, that sometimes some of these

                 victims couldn't even testify against their

                 accusers.  They're not adults.  We can't hold

                 them to too much of a standard.  We don't make

                 them sign contracts, we don't force them to

                 fight in armed struggles.  And yet to make





                                                          9955



                 them come forward and testify in these types

                 of situations in my opinion is going beyond

                 the balance of what would really be fair to

                 them.

                            And so if they did make statements

                 that were recorded and were written in what

                 would be apt professional situations, I aver

                 to this body that we should accept that only

                 in the extreme case where the victim is unable

                 to testify for himself or for herself.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Any other

                 Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Senator Gentile.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes, thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL:    Senator

                 Gentile, on the bill.

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    I want to

                 commend Senator Paterson for sponsoring this

                 legislation.

                            Certainly in my years as a

                 prosecutor, many of those years were spent

                 prosecuting child sexual abuse cases.  And in

                 those years prosecuting child sexual abuse

                 cases, one of the toughest hurdles to overcome





                                                          9956



                 had been preparing those children to testify

                 in a court of law.  Now, with the Vulnerable

                 Child Witness Statute, we have been given the

                 opportunity to use closed-circuit television

                 as means of having those children testify.

                            But I think what Senator Paterson

                 is saying, and certainly what I experienced as

                 a prosecutor in this area of the law, is that

                 when you deal with child witnesses it is a

                 very special and fragile group of witnesses

                 that you have to deal with who often have to

                 tell their story many times over.  Just as

                 someone who is a rape victim would tell their

                 story many times over, except in this case

                 you're dealing with a child's emotions, a

                 child's mentality, and a child's inability to

                 understand the system in which we ask them to

                 participate in.

                            And so when something occurs,

                 usually that child would first have to tell a

                 detective or a police officer, then would have

                 to tell a social worker or a therapist of some

                 type, then they would come to me, as the

                 prosecutor, and we'd go through the story

                 again as they'd tell me.  Then we would put





                                                          9957



                 the child into a grand jury and have the child

                 tell the grand jury what happened again.  And

                 then we would prepare the child again for a

                 trial and have to prepare that testimony once

                 again.

                            You always run the risk with

                 children as witnesses that at some point in

                 that process, because they don't understand

                 the process, that they will no longer wish to

                 participate in the prosecution, which is a

                 prosecution that the district attorney has

                 determined should go forward.  But you never

                 know with a child witness, when a child has

                 been traumatized so much or for whatever

                 reason has emotionally decided to close up and

                 not testify, and therefore what you're left

                 with is a witness for all intents and purposes

                 that cannot testify at trial but yet has made

                 statements several times over about what

                 happened to him or her, and yet you're faced

                 with this inability to go forward because of

                 this witness.

                            Having Senator Paterson's bill

                 enacted into a law would at least give

                 prosecutors an opportunity to use those





                                                          9958



                 previous out-of-court statements as a basis

                 for going forward.  And, you know, I think

                 everyone here who has tried any of those

                 cases, anyone who has been a defense attorney

                 in any one of these cases knows that in every

                 case, whether the child testifies or not,

                 there is always -- the jury will always

                 require some other type of corroborating

                 evidence to confirm what has been said and

                 testified to by the child.

                            So whether that child actually

                 testifies or whether there's some out-of-court

                 statement that is used in lieu of a child's

                 testimony, a prosecutor would always be under

                 that burden of bringing in other evidence to

                 corroborate what was happening and what that

                 testimony concerned.

                            So I understand Senator

                 DeFrancisco's concern about the right to

                 confront your accusers.  And in most cases I

                 would agree, and that's why we have the

                 videotape, the closed-circuit-TV Vulnerable

                 Child Witness Statute.

                            But Senator, I also understand,

                 having done this for many years, that there





                                                          9959



                 are those children that cannot even

                 participate in the closed-circuit TV because

                 of the trauma they have faced and because at

                 some point, not understanding the system, they

                 decide not to participate anymore.  And given

                 that, a prosecutor is faced with a serious

                 crime, a crime that should be prosecuted, but

                 a witness, because of that witness's age and

                 vulnerability, decides they're not going to

                 participate anymore.

                            In those situations, Senator

                 Paterson's bill would allow the prosecutor to

                 at least present that case to the jury and,

                 with other evidence, let the jury decide the

                 guilt or innocence of that accused.

                            So there are concerns about it, but

                 I think in this particular situation with

                 child witnesses this is a situation where a

                 certain relaxing of the rules on hearsay is

                 commendable and certainly something that would

                 be in the best interests of those victims.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I wonder if

                 Senator Gentile would yield to a question.





                                                          9960



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Gentile, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Gentile yields.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    In your

                 experience as a prosecutor, can you tell me

                 whether the statute denying an accused the

                 right to confront his accuser would be

                 constitutional?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Well, I believe

                 in the case of the closed-circuit television

                 situation, the vulnerable child witnesses,

                 there have been court decisions saying that

                 the fact that the child has not been in the

                 courtroom facing his accuser does not make it

                 unconstitutional.

                            Extrapolating from that, I would

                 have to say that the fact that the child is

                 not in the courtroom but testimony is

                 available would therefore, if there's other

                 corroborating evidence, would therefore be as

                 acceptable to a court.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

                 Senator Gentile yield to another question?





                                                          9961



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Gentile, do you yield?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So it's

                 your opinion that a defense attorney being

                 able to ask questions, through video, of the

                 accuser is the same as someone questioning

                 somebody else about what the accuser said to

                 that somebody else?

                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Well, I

                 wouldn't say it's of the same quality.  I

                 would agree with you, it's not of the same

                 quality as asking the actual witness.

                            But nevertheless, we were talking

                 about the constitutionality of confronting

                 your accuser.  And in this case, knowing the

                 case law from closed-circuit television, I

                 would believe, under Senator Paterson's

                 scenario, that it would be found

                 constitutional.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.





                                                          9962



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    First, on

                 the constitutional issue.  The right to

                 confront the accuser doesn't say you have to

                 be in the same room facing the accuser ten

                 feet away.  I think videotaped testimony would

                 still give -- and I can see the constitutional

                 basis for allowing that, because it would

                 still give the defendant the opportunity to

                 ask questions of the accuser and thereby

                 confront the accuser.

                            This does not allow that.  It

                 allows for hearsay.  Senator Paterson

                 mentioned there are other examples of hearsay.

                 And my first question to him was whether or

                 not there are any examples of hearsay being

                 admitted when it's the accuser's hearsay to

                 somebody else.  And I don't think there are





                                                          9963



                 any such similar situations in criminal cases.

                            The other point that Senator

                 Paterson raised I think should be mentioned.

                 He kept talking about the child is found to be

                 unavailable.  There's another clause in here

                 that says the child refuses.  Well, with this

                 bill I'm sure there would be a lot more

                 children refusing to testify even though they

                 were available.

                            Lastly, there's another alternative

                 that I would suggest -- not that I would agree

                 with, but I think would be less onerous.  If

                 we're giving the prosecutors and the Social

                 Services Department this opportunity to avoid

                 having the child testify, there should be a

                 corresponding rule that the interview should

                 be videotaped and likewise admissible from the

                 first interview that the child has.

                            So the jury would then at least

                 have the opportunity to view whether there was

                 suggestive behavior, what occurred during the

                 interview, to make their own judgment about

                 what the child said when he first said it.

                            So the bill under the present form,

                 I certainly understand the good motive in





                                                          9964



                 having it happen.  Nobody wants children to go

                 through these things.  But for the

                 constitutional reasons, I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Paterson, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 in explaining his vote Senator DeFrancisco

                 offered a very good suggestion.  I don't know

                 that the law enforcement officials or social

                 service employees or employees of the Office

                 of Children and Family Services always know

                 what the child is going to say to them.  But

                 certainly at that point it would be something

                 worth considering to have these statements

                 videotaped.

                            And we'd better do something,

                 because it's now known that one out of three

                 females and one out of eight males have

                 experienced some abuse sexually in their

                 childhood.  So with that large a number of the

                 population, if you looked around this room it

                 would mean there are ten people in this room

                 likely to have had that experience, and I'll





                                                          9965



                 bet no prosecutions.

                            We've got to find a way to confront

                 individuals who know that there's really no

                 way to get back at them because all you have

                 to try to get back at them is the word of a

                 child.  You don't always have physical

                 evidence or that type of thing.

                            At the same time, the need to

                 defend the constitutional rights of defendants

                 is the same.  But I think that in the case of

                 Maryland versus Craig, a 1990 Supreme Court

                 case, that the court didn't just rule based on

                 the hearsay rule, they based on the suffering

                 that the child might have.  I don't think the

                 courts should just allow a child to refuse

                 testimony just because they're not going to do

                 it.

                            But in situations where there is

                 some evidence that it would be injurious to

                 the child, and the other sections of the bill

                 being adhered to, I think that this bill would

                 be good law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Paterson will be recorded in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.





                                                          9966



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1169 are

                 Senators DeFrancisco, Kuhl, and Meier.  Ayes,

                 57.  Nays, 3.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 ask for unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 310.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator McGee will be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 310.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, I would like unanimous consent to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1146.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 1146.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, could I have unanimous consent to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 1162.





                                                          9967



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 1162.

                            Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.

                 President, could I have unanimous consent to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar 310,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Stachowski will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 310.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1176, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3000A, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law and the

                 Civil Practice Law and Rules, in relation to

                 the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 1176 by Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill would enact the Uniform





                                                          9968



                 Trade Secrets Protection Act.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, will the sponsor yield just to

                 one question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, will you yield for just one question?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    I can't

                 imagine what's left to explain.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is this the

                 same bill that we did last year, the exact

                 same bill that we did last year?

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Through you, Mr.

                 President, this is the Uniform Trade Secrets

                 Act of 2001.  And it is based in concept on

                 the trade secrets bill of 2000 which passed

                 this house.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, thank you to Senator Alesi for

                 answering my one question.

                            On the bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I voted





                                                          9969



                 against this bill last year.  I'm going to

                 vote against it again, Mr. President.

                            I think, number one, there are lots

                 of contractual ways for employers to protect

                 trade secrets.  They ought to be encouraged to

                 do that.

                            And, two, I think this bill, while

                 it's uniform in the sense that many states

                 would like to apply it, I think it tilts the

                 advantage in employee information and

                 knowledge.  And in a vibrant marketplace, I

                 think it tilts it far too heavily in favor of

                 the employers and, frankly, far too heavily in

                 discouraging new innovation.

                            I don't think we should support

                 misappropriation of trade secrets, but I do

                 think we should encourage people that have new

                 ideas, new concepts to take those concepts

                 even if they may be in part derived from what

                 they've learned while working for an employer,

                 to take those concepts out into the

                 marketplace.

                            I think the history of technology

                 in the last 30 years in this state has stood

                 the test of time without this kind of





                                                          9970



                 legislative approach to trade secrets.  I

                 think the common law deals with it perfectly

                 well.  Anybody that's got a very valuable

                 trade secret ought to have extensive contract

                 protections to ensure that they're not lifted

                 by an employee.

                            From my point of view, Mr.

                 President, I spoke against this bill last

                 year.  I will vote against the Trade Secrets

                 Act of 2001 as I did in its corollary of 2000.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    On the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    I wouldn't want

                 to press my luck by trying to convince Senator

                 Dollinger to reconsider his vote.

                            However, I think that if you look

                 at the importance of this bill from what we

                 are trying to do in the state of New York by

                 encouraging high-tech industries to establish

                 themselves, to grow here, to expand here, then

                 this legislation is absolutely necessary to





                                                          9971



                 encourage that kind of high-tech expansion and

                 growth.

                            Because without that kind of

                 protection, there are 40 other states where

                 high-tech industries can go where they can

                 establish and grow jobs and know that they'll

                 have the kind of protection that the Trade

                 Secrets Act will provide them and will provide

                 their investors.

                            So with everything that we're

                 trying to do in New York State to grow

                 high-tech jobs and to protect existing jobs, I

                 think that this is part and parcel of that

                 effort, and I would encourage my colleagues to

                 support this with a yes vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1176 are





                                                          9972



                 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Hassell-Thompson,

                 Onorato, Paterson, and Schneiderman.  Ayes,

                 54.  Nays, 6.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1194, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8930, an act to amend Chapter 533 of

                 the Laws of 1993.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator

                 McGee, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill would amend the license

                 and registration suspension and revocation

                 section of the Vehicle and Traffic Law to

                 extend from October 1st of this year to

                 October 1st of the year 2002, the mandatory

                 six-month license suspension and authority to

                 suspend a vehicle registration for conviction

                 of or possession of -- I'm sorry, for a

                 conviction of possession or sale of a





                                                          9973



                 controlled substance or marijuana or any

                 driving while ability impaired by drugs or any

                 out-of-state or federal misdemeanor or felony

                 drug-related offense.

                            The bill does not change the

                 provision of the current law, only extends its

                 expiration.  This license suspension is

                 required by the federal Drug Offenders Driving

                 Privilege Act.  Extension of this provision

                 will allow the state to maintain its federal

                 allocation of $43 million in federal funds.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1195, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5544A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 887 of the Laws of





                                                          9974



                 1983.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 1195 by Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    This measure,

                 Mr. President, extends several provisions of

                 the Crime and Corrections Law.

                            Among its provisions it extends the

                 effective dates of the laws pertaining to

                 psychological testing of correction officers,

                 expanding the geographical area of employment

                 for certain officers, the New York City

                 Prisoner Furlough Program, the State

                 Department of Correctional Services Earned

                 Eligibility Program, Comprehensive Alcohol and

                 Substance Abuse Treatment Program.  It limits

                 eligibility for participation in the temporary

                 release program, the State Department of

                 Correctional Services Temporary Release

                 Program, work release program, community

                 treatment facilities program, and a variety or

                 other suspension, fees, and even parking

                 violation enforcement.

                            Mr. President, can I have some





                                                          9975



                 order, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Your

                 point is well taken, Senator Nozzolio.

                            Can we have some quiet in the

                 chamber, please.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, I can perhaps spare Senator

                 Nozzolio if he would just answer one quick

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is this bill

                 simply an extender of programs already

                 currently in place?  It has no programmatic or

                 policy changes other than the extensions?

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 I can answer in the affirmative.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?





                                                          9976



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 21.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll call.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi, that completes this

                 calendar.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  May we at this time, then, take up

                 the noncontroversial reading of Supplemental

                 Calendar 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the noncontroversial

                 portion of the supplemental active list.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 323, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1992A, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to eliminating provisions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          9977



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Can I explain my

                 vote on that, Mr. President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Many years ago

                 they passed a law that says that you have to

                 have your little conviction stub with you.  I

                 would venture to say that the vast majority of

                 this chamber who are licensed drivers do not

                 have their conviction stub on them.  Because

                 if you have to go before a magistrate and you

                 don't have that conviction stub, you're fined

                 $50.

                            What we're going to do away with is

                 that conviction stub, because it's no longer

                 needed.  Because, believe it or not, there are

                 some judges in this state, magistrates, that





                                                          9978



                 fine people if they don't have their

                 conviction stubs with them.

                            Is there anybody that has their

                 conviction stub with you?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    I have it right

                 here.

                            SENATOR FARLEY:    There's one guy

                 that does.

                            Outside of that, thank you for

                 supporting the bill.  DMV is in favor of it,

                 the judges are in favor of it, everybody is in

                 favor of it.  It's a good piece of

                 legislation.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 454, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1583, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to the designation.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          9979



                 1196, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 884,

                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to the employees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1197, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 1741,

                 an act to amend the Public Health Law, in

                 relation to the sale and possession.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.





                                                          9980



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1198, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2683A,

                 an act to amend the Family Court Act and the

                 Domestic Relations Law, in relation to

                 abandoned infants.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1199, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Weinstein, Assembly Print Number

                 7344A, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law

                 and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          9981



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1200, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3541,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 including.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay that bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1203, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4606A, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to licensed wineries and farm

                 wineries.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay that bill

                 aside, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the





                                                          9982



                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1204, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4671, an

                 act to amend the Transportation Law, in

                 relation to regulation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 20.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1205, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8374, an act to amend the Agriculture

                 and Markets Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 120 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the





                                                          9983



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1206, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4899A,

                 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to abandoned infants.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1207, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Lopez, Assembly Print Number

                 3996, an act to amend Chapter 613 of the Laws

                 of 1996.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,





                                                          9984



                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1208, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Lopez, Assembly Print Number

                 1872A, an act to amend the Banking Law, in

                 relation to prohibiting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1210, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5200A,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

                 to revitalization.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This





                                                          9985



                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1211, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5248,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to report.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1212, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5406, an

                 act to authorize the Town of Chester, Orange

                 County.





                                                          9986



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1213, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5411,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to tax exemption.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1214, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8868, an act to amend the Alcoholic

                 Beverage Control Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the





                                                          9987



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1215, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5435, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 the payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1, 2003.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1216, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5466,





                                                          9988



                 an act to authorize the County of Monroe.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1217, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5485, an

                 act in relation to authorizing the

                 appropriation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill





                                                          9989



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1218, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5488A,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to regulation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1219, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5492, an

                 act authorizing the Commissioner of

                 Transportation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          9990



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1221, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 9050B, an act to amend the Estates,

                 Powers and Trusts Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1, 2002.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays.

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1222, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 5551, an act to amend the Environmental

                 Conservation Law, in relation to natural

                 heritage.





                                                          9991



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1223, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5552, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

                 Chapter 774 of the Laws of 1950.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          9992



                 1224, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 5558,

                 an act to amend the Public Officers Law, in

                 relation to indemnification.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1225, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5561,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to special hauling permits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          9993



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1226, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5574,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law and others, in relation to the practice of

                 forestry.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Please lay that

                 bill aside for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1227, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 5579, an act to amend Chapter 166 of the

                 Laws of 1991.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          9994



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1228, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5586, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 including.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, may I have unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number





                                                          9995



                 310.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 310.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Alesi, that completes the reading of the

                 noncontroversial calendar from Supplemental

                 Active List 1.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  May we then proceed to the reading

                 of the controversial calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the controversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 454, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1583, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to the designation.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor is available for

                 just one question about the veto message.

                 We'll waive an explanation if Senator Skelos

                 would yield to just one question.





                                                          9996



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, this bill was vetoed by

                 Governor Pataki last year.  Can you explain

                 what changes, if any, have been made to the

                 bill as a result of the gubernatorial veto?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    In his veto

                 message the last sentence says "I have not

                 been presented with any reasons to treat this

                 bill differently than the bill I vetoed last

                 year."  So there were two vetoes.

                            I think we will convince him this

                 year to sign it.  We will present him with

                 information that will, I believe,

                 optimistically, have the Governor sign this

                 bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, this will be an offer he can't

                 refuse?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    No such thing.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    No such

                 thing.

                            Through you, Mr. President, just on





                                                          9997



                 the bill briefly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    It seems to

                 me this is another example where we should

                 just override the Governor's veto.  We should

                 have brought this bill back, we should have

                 sat down -- this bill passed by a huge margin

                 in the Senate, it has bipartisan support.  It

                 obviously has the support of our colleagues in

                 the Assembly, I think has passed by a

                 similarly large margin there.

                            I don't know why we don't take back

                 some of our legislative power by just

                 overriding these vetoes.  We're going to send

                 him the same exact bill.  We could have turned

                 it into law ourselves.  We could make it law

                 ourselves without his signature.  I don't

                 understand why we don't do that.  I think it

                 would be good for this chamber, it would be

                 good for the Legislature, and it would have

                 made Senator Skelos' bill a law a year before

                 it's going to eventually take effect.

                            We ought to do what we have the

                 power to do.  We should have done it in this





                                                          9998



                 instance as well.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I move for the

                 override.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            As you all know, the Governor and I

                 are very, very close.  And we agree on this

                 particular bill.  But we're certainly open to

                 hearing more compelling reasons why we should

                 vote in favor of it and look forward to that.

                            But until that time, the Governor

                 and I are sticking with our no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Duane will be recorded in the negative.





                                                          9999



                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Smith, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  I rise to request unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1176.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Malcolm Smith will be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1176.

                            Senator Onorato, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President,

                 can I have unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 310.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Onorato will be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 310.

                            Secretary will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1200, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3541,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to





                                                          10000



                 including.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Goodman, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 1200 by Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Mr. President,

                 this bill provides that certain new multiple

                 dwellings in the City of New York shall be

                 exempt from real property taxes if

                 construction thereof is commenced before

                 December 31, 2003, rather than completed by

                 such date.

                            Wait a minute, stop, hold it.

                 Could you repeat the number you called,

                 please, Mr. President?  What is the number of

                 the bill you called just now?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Calendar

                 1200, Senator.  Senate Print 3541.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Okay, I'm

                 sorry.  Here we go, right.  I beg your pardon,

                 Senator Dollinger.  Here we go.  Are you

                 ready?

                            This is an act to amend the Tax Law

                 in relation to including limited liability

                 companies in a list of organizations which may

                 become exempt from sales and use taxes.  It's





                                                          10001



                 a relatively simple bill, the purpose of which

                 is simply to codify existing departmental

                 policy.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, will the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Goodman, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, sir.  I'll

                 be glad to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Why, Senator

                 Goodman, do we need to include the limited

                 liability companies in the list of

                 organizations that can qualify for tax-exempt

                 status?

                            As I understand it, limited

                 liability companies have unique liability

                 provisions attached to them in that they

                 allocate liability to the members of the

                 company according to their own individual

                 fault.





                                                          10002



                            And I guess I just don't understand

                 why you would form a limited liability company

                 for not-for-profits or to obtain tax-exempt

                 status when you can form a corporation just as

                 easily.  I just don't quite understand it.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, let me

                 share with you the nearly incomprehensible

                 gibberish that is presented by the Tax

                 Department in support of this bill, if I may.

                 Let's see if we can decipher it.  I think I

                 can, but I'll give you the chance to try your

                 luck.

                            "The omission of limited liability

                 companies has been subject to review by the

                 Department of Taxation and Finance in the

                 past.  The Sales Tax Law has been previously

                 amended to include a limited liability company

                 in the definition of person, Tax Law Section

                 1101A, for sales and use tax purposes.

                 However, that amendment is not applicable in

                 this instance, since the term 'person' is not

                 used in Section 1116A(4).  In the instance

                 where limited liability companies met the

                 criteria set forth in Section 529.7 of the

                 sales and use tax regulations which governs





                                                          10003



                 exempt organizations, the department has

                 granted exempt organization status.  See

                 Brookhaven Science Associates, LLC,

                 TSB-A-98(14)S.  This bill would essentially

                 serve to codify existing department policy."

                            I trust that will allay any

                 concerns that you have and clarify the matter

                 definitively.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation

                 satisfactory, Mr. President.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

                            There is a local fiscal impact note

                 at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill





                                                          10004



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1203, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4606A, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to licensed wineries and farm

                 wineries.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Kuhl, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 1203 by Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This is a bill that is simply meant

                 to clarify a law that we passed in 1984 which

                 was meant to help and aid the then-struggling

                 wine and grape industry in this state.  At

                 that time, under a farm winery piece of

                 legislation, we authorized that each winery be

                 able to have five off-site premises for

                 tasting and for purchase under the same kinds

                 of qualifications that then the winery was

                 able to operate under.

                            Since that time, we have had a

                 significant growth of wineries in New York,





                                                          10005



                 from roughly 20 in 1984 to in excess of 150

                 throughout the entire state, whether it's on

                 Long Island, the mid-Hudson, in the

                 Buffalo-Niagara area, or in the Finger Lakes,

                 which I happen to represent a part of.

                            These wineries have seen a great

                 deal of benefit in joining together to create

                 what we call "wine trails," and we have had

                 legislation before this house before which has

                 allowed a special designation for those wine

                 trails.

                            We have just recently been made

                 aware of a threat to this entire tourism-based

                 industry, and certainly to this very fine

                 wine-producing industry, in that there now

                 appears that there's some question as to

                 whether or not these off-site premises could

                 in fact operate under the same hours as was

                 designated back in 1984.

                            This piece of legislation very

                 succinctly and I think very specifically says

                 that on these five -- if they choose to use

                 five off-premises sites, that they in fact

                 will be able to taste and to sell the product

                 which they make.





                                                          10006



                            It's not meant to be a competition

                 for the commercial operations.  It's just

                 meant as an introductory kind of method that

                 these wineries can now use to actually sell

                 their produce, if you will.

                            We have in the Finger Lakes area,

                 and I know that there are other places

                 throughout the state where we have established

                 what they call "wine days."  It's now

                 currently located in what you call the Watkins

                 Glen region.  It's going to be held at the

                 Watkins Glen Racetrack this coming year in the

                 middle of July.  And at that time you will

                 have a large percentage of these wineries

                 coming and utilizing this piece of legislation

                 to actually display their wares and to sell

                 their product.

                            This bill just goes to verify that

                 in fact you can do it on Sunday as well as

                 Saturday.  If we were not able to do it on

                 Sunday, there would be a significant loss of

                 sales and certainly availability of product to

                 taste, and certainly a loss of a lot of

                 revenue to the state, so you would not see the

                 kind of flourishing industry in this state as





                                                          10007



                 you have over the last 17 years.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President,

                 will the sponsor yield to a couple of

                 questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Kuhl, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator Kuhl,

                 are you aware of the opposition that has been

                 registered by the Metropolitan Package Store

                 Association?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    They

                 have filed no memo with me, Senator.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Pardon?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    They have filed no

                 memorandum in opposition with me.

                            And this is not -- I should just

                 simply say I don't know what it says, Senator,

                 but this is not an expansion of the current

                 legislation.  It is just a clarification of

                 what has been in practice for the last 17





                                                          10008



                 years.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Well, again,

                 through you, Mr. President, the

                 Metropolitan -- the local stores are objecting

                 to the fact that it will allow them to be

                 selling it on Sundays.  They object very, very

                 strenuously to that aspect of it.

                            They made the agreement reluctantly

                 back in 1977 to allow owner/producers to

                 establish their off-premises consumption and

                 purchasing of it.  They feel that by allowing

                 them to open on Sundays now from 10:00 a.m. to

                 midnight will put an added burden upon them to

                 open up their stores on Sundays, which they

                 are very, very reluctant to do at this

                 particular time.

                            They don't object to them -- to the

                 original agreement, but they do object to the

                 fact that we are now extending it to Sundays.

                 And we have basically a Sunday blue law where

                 you can't sell alcoholic beverages before

                 1:00 o'clock in your local restaurants or

                 off-premises consumption in your local beer

                 distributors.  Why are we giving these people

                 extra time, especially on Sunday?





                                                          10009



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator, we're

                 not.  This -- as I said before, this is meant

                 to just clarify and put into statute what has

                 essentially been the statute but is now being

                 questioned to some degree by the State Liquor

                 Authority.

                            If you were to go into my district,

                 for instance, or to Senator Nozzolio's

                 district or to Senator Larkin's district or

                 any of our Long Island colleagues' districts

                 and go and visit the winery or one of their

                 off-premises sites, you'd see that you'd be

                 able to taste their product and you could even

                 buy their product and take it home.

                            This is not an expansion.  It is

                 not intended to be an expansion.  It's a

                 simple clarification and a placement into

                 statute of actually what is the practice right

                 now.

                            Farm wineries, keep in mind, if you

                 were to go back to the original statute in

                 1984 -- you were here, Senator, and I was

                 here, not in this house, but in the other

                 house at that time -- you would find that

                 those hours were created and that ability to





                                                          10010



                 sell on Sunday was created at that time.  So

                 this is not a new idea, not a new idea at all.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just briefly

                 on the bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm going to

                 vote against this provision.

                            I think that the whole issue of

                 when alcohol should be sold and how it should

                 be sold and whether we should put Sunday

                 restrictions on it in this day and age makes

                 little sense, and that would incline me to

                 vote in favor of this bill.  But I think that

                 this is a piecemeal approach, the wrong way to

                 go.

                            I think rather than create this

                 ability to -- or clarify what -- one man's

                 clarification, Senator Kuhl, may be another

                 person's expansion.  What I think we're doing

                 here is we're telling retail outlets run by

                 wineries that they can operate under





                                                          10011



                 circumstances different from everybody else

                 that sells alcohol in the state.  I think

                 that's a mistake.

                            If we're going to have a discussion

                 and debate about who gets to sell alcohol,

                 when and where and under what circumstances,

                 we ought to do that.  I personally see little

                 basis for the old restrictions on not selling

                 alcohol on Sundays and when you can sell it

                 and who can sell it.  I think it's a commodity

                 that ought to be available and we ought to end

                 this Prohibition-era approach to the sale of

                 alcohol.

                            But I don't think a piecemeal

                 approach is the right way to do it, and I'm

                 going to vote no, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Briefly on

                 the bill.

                            Normally I'm as pro-little mom and

                 pop liquor store as anybody, but in this case

                 it helps promote New York State wines, it

                 helps the wineries in New York.  And pretty





                                                          10012



                 much we all know that liquor stores don't

                 really push New York State wines anyway.  So I

                 don't see how we're competing with them,

                 because they're only selling their wines and

                 it's a good promotional thing and helps them

                 enhance their business and enhance the

                 New York State industry.

                            So I'm going to support the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1203 are

                 Senators Dollinger, Duane, Gentile,

                 Hassell-Thompson, Onorato, Oppenheimer, and

                 Padavan.  Ayes, 53.  Nays, 7.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1207, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Lopez, Assembly Print Number





                                                          10013



                 3996, an act to amend Chapter 613 of the Laws

                 of 1996.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Bonacic, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 1207 by Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This is a bill that would extend

                 the sunset provision of Section 696A of

                 Article 6 of the General Municipal Law, which

                 gives municipalities the authority to

                 restructure rents of dwelling units in

                 municipally owned buildings which have been

                 rehabilitated with the aid of loans.

                            Right now it sunsets on June 30th

                 of 2001.  This legislation would extend that

                 authority to June 30th of 2006.

                            This has been requested by the City

                 of New York.  The city has taken over so many

                 buildings for back taxes.  At one time, they

                 owned 80,000 units.  What they do is -- and

                 today they own 10,000 units, less than 10,000

                 units, because of their ability to restructure





                                                          10014



                 rents.

                            Through the competitive bidding

                 process, the city will sell the building to a

                 developer.  Then the city makes a loan to the

                 developer and the developer fixes the

                 buildings up, and then the city sets the rents

                 in the buildings.  And the bill will just

                 continue the city to restructure the rents.

                            There's never been one tenant

                 displaced since this program was initiated as

                 a result of the city's authority to

                 restructure rents.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    By the way, it

                 passed in the Assembly, by Assemblyman Lopez,

                 on May 30th of this year by a vote of 143 to

                 zero.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation

                 satisfactory.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the





                                                          10015



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1213, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5411,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to tax exemption.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Goodman, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 1213, Senate Print 5411.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Who asked for

                 the explanation, please, Mr. President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    I

                 believe it was Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senate 1213?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Calendar

                 1213, Senate Print 5411.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Okay.

                            This bill provides that certain new

                 multiple dwellings in the City of New York

                 shall be exempt from real property taxes if





                                                          10016



                 construction thereof is commenced before

                 December 31, 2003, rather than completed by

                 such date.  The existing law requires the

                 projects to begin and end in a certain period.

                            And let me be a little more

                 explicit as to the reasons for the bill.  The

                 421(a) program was created in 1971 to provide

                 an incentive for the construction of new

                 residential multiple dwellings in the City of

                 New York.  Since then, the program has been

                 instrumental in the construction of over

                 124,000 housing units in the city.

                            Newly constructed Class A multiple

                 dwellings of three units or more, including

                 co-ops or condos, are eligible for this

                 program.

                            Projects containing 20 percent

                 low-income units located south of or adjacent

                 to either side of 110th Street in Manhattan

                 can receive a 20-year exemption.  This is

                 known as the 80-20 program.  The full

                 exemption lasts for the period of construction

                 or for a period of three years immediately

                 following commencement of construction.

                            Projects in the same geographic





                                                          10017



                 area that do not contain 20 percent low-income

                 units also may be eligible for a 10-year

                 exemption.

                            This legislation establishes that

                 the deadline for the commencement of

                 construction for the entire 421(a) program

                 will be December 31, 2003.

                            Now, the point to the bill is that

                 it does conform all the dates of the 421

                 program's various elements.  It does so to

                 prevent confusion amongst prospective

                 developers and financial institutions who have

                 expressed concerns over the current statutory

                 inconsistency in the beginning and ending or

                 the commencement and completion dates of the

                 421(a) statute.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation

                 satisfactory.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          10018



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Alesi, that completes the

                 reading of the controversial portion of the

                 supplemental calendar.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Mr. President, is

                 there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, we

                 do have some to take care of.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  On behalf of Senator Saland, on

                 page number 41 I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 1011, Senate

                 Print Number 4895, and ask that said bill

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bill will retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.





                                                          10019



                            On behalf of Senator Goodman, I

                 move to amend Senate Bill Number 733A by

                 striking out the amendments made on 6/13 of

                 this year and restoring it to its original

                 previous print number, 733.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 sir.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Mr. President, I'd

                 like to request unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 310.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Rath will be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 310.

                            Senator Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  There will be a Rules Committee

                 meeting in the Majority Conference Room at

                 5:20.  And thereafter, some of the bills

                 coming out of that committee will be taken up

                 on the floor.

                            Between now and that time, we will





                                                          10020



                 stand at ease.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 5:11 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 5:55 p.m.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to reports of standing

                 committees, I believe there's a report of the

                 Rules Committee at the desk.  I ask that it be

                 read at this time.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Reports of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 359, by Senator

                 Morahan, an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            603, by Senator Santiago, an act to

                 amend Chapter 209 of the Laws of 2000.





                                                          10021



                            842A, by Senator Velella, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law.

                            918, by Senator Kruger, an act

                 authorizing the City of New York.

                            1106, by Senator Markowitz, an act

                 authorizing the City of New York.

                            1168, by Senator McGee, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            1758, by Senator Morahan, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            2142, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Labor Law.

                            2216B, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Education Law.

                            2269, by Senator Bonacic, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law.

                            3057, by Senator Wright, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            3351, by Senator Montgomery, an act

                 authorizing the City of New York.

                            3375A, by Senator Alesi, an act to

                 amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            4085A, by Senator Bonacic, an act

                 to amend the Civil Rights Law.

                            4258A, by Senator Maltese, an act





                                                          10022



                 to amend the Administrative Code of the City

                 of New York.

                            4306A, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the General Business Law.

                            4471, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 permit certain employees.

                            4672, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            4861B, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 amend the Social Services Law.

                            4979, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            5131, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the Family Court Act and the Domestic

                 Relations Law.

                            5201, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            5271, by Senator Trunzo, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            5290A, by Senator Johnson, an act

                 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            5291, by Senator Morahan, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            5423A, by Senator Leibell, an act

                 to amend the Administrative Code of the City





                                                          10023



                 of New York.

                            5475, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the General Municipal Law.

                            5486, by Senator Libous, an act to

                 amend the Mental Hygiene Law and the State

                 Finance Law.

                            5489, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Civil Rights Law.

                            5502A, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and

                 Breeding Law.

                            5509, by Senator Seward, an act to

                 amend Chapter 459 of the Laws of 1996.

                            5512, by Senator Marchi, an act to

                 amend the New York City Health and Hospitals

                 Corporation Act.

                            5545, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

                 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            5564, by Senator Rath, an act to

                 ratify, legalize and validate certain actions

                 and proceedings.

                            5578, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 adjust certain state aid payments.

                            5589, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

                 to relation to state intervention.





                                                          10024



                            5590, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Administrative Code of the City of

                 New York.

                            5592, by Senator Farley, an act to

                 amend the Banking Law.

                            5595, by Senator Morahan, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law.

                            5596, by Senator Morahan, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law.

                            5610, by Senator Meier, an act to

                 amend Chapter 953 of the Laws of 1983.

                            5612, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law.

                            5616, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend the Education Law.

                            5622, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend the Chapter 266 of the

                 Laws of 1986.

                            5640, by Senator Skelos, an act to

                 amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            5642, by Senator Stafford, an act

                 to authorize certain health care

                 professionals.

                            5646, by Senator Balboni, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure





                                                          10025



                 Law.

                            5653, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law and others.

                            And 5656, by Senator Skelos, an act

                 to amend Chapter 549 of the Laws of 2000.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move we accept

                 the report of the Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All in

                 favor of accepting the report of the Rules

                 Committee signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 report is accepted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there any

                 housekeeping at the desk at this time?  Are

                 there any substitutions to be made?

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    There are

                 substitutions.





                                                          10026



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could make

                 the substitutions, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Morahan

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 125 and substitute

                 it for the identical Senate Bill Number 359,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1230.

                            Senator Morahan moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 2839 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 1758, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1236.

                            Senator Spano moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 7458 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 2142, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1237.

                            Senator Bonacic moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 7696A and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 4085A, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1243.

                            Senator Maltese moves to discharge,





                                                          10027



                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 8354A and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 4258A, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1244.

                            And Senator Marchi moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3543 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5512,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1260.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Substitutions are ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could go to Supplemental Calendar 55B,

                 noncontroversial.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1229, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5502A,

                 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel

                 Wagering and Breeding Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          10028



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1230, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Gromack, Assembly Print Number

                 125, an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1231, by Senator Santiago, Senate Print 603,





                                                          10029



                 an act to amend Chapter 209 of the Laws of

                 2000.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There

                 is a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1233, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 918, an

                 act authorizing the City of New York to

                 reconvey its interest.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There

                 is a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call





                                                          10030



                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1234, by Senator Markowitz, Senate Print 1106,

                 an act authorizing the City of New York to

                 reconvey its interest.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There

                 is a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1235, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 1168, an





                                                          10031



                 act to amend Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to requiring.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1236, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Gromack, Assembly Print Number

                 2839, an act to amend the Retirement and

                 Social Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10032



                 1237, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Nolan, Assembly Print Number

                 7458, an act to amend the Labor Law, in

                 relation to prevailing wage supplements.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1238, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2216B,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the administration.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1239, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 2269,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation

                 to payments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          10033



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1240, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3057, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to creating.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The





                                                          10034



                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1241, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print

                 3351, an act authorizing the City of New York

                 to reconvey its interest.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1242, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3375A, an

                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to permitting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          10035



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Anno

                 unce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1243, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly Print Number

                 7696A, an act to amend the Civil Rights Law,

                 in relation to fair procedure.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1244, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8354A, an act to amend the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York.





                                                          10036



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1245, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4306A, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to applicability.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:





                                                          10037



                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1246, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4471, an

                 act to permit certain employees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1247, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4672, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to the length of semitrailers.





                                                          10038



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1248, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 4861B, an

                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in

                 relation to child daycare.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1250, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5131, an

                 act to amend the Family Court Act and the

                 Domestic Relations Law.





                                                          10039



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    We passed

                 Calendar Number 1250.  What about 1249?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    I

                 believe it's high, Senator.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 why don't we continue with the calendar until

                 we locate that bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Good

                 idea, Senator Skelos.

                            The Secretary will read.





                                                          10040



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1251, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5201, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1252, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5271, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to school-zone speed limits.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay that

                 aside, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1253, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5290A,





                                                          10041



                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to low-speed vehicles.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1254, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5291,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.





                                                          10042



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1255, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5423A,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1256, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5475, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.





                                                          10043



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1257, by Senator Libous, Senate Print -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1258, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5489,

                 an act to amend the Civil Rights Law, in

                 relation to imposing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1259, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5509, an

                 act to amend Chapter 459 of the Laws of 1996.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.





                                                          10044



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The bill is

                 laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1260, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Perry, Assembly Print Number

                 3543, an act to amend the New York City Health

                 and Hospitals Corporation Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1262, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5564, an

                 act to ratify, legalize and validate.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This





                                                          10045



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1263, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5578, an

                 act to adjust certain state aid payments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10046



                 1264, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5589,

                 an act in relation to state intervention.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1265, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5590,

                 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

                 City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10047



                 1266, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 55 -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1267, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5595,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 authorized dispositions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1268, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5596,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 penalties.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The bill is

                 laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1273, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5640, an





                                                          10048



                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

                 relation to eliminating.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, there is a

                 message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the message say

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            The clerk will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 15.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.





                                                          10049



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 3.  Senators Duane, Montgomery, and Paterson

                 recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1275, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5646,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal

                 Procedure Law.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,

                 there is, Senator.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All in

                 favor of accepting the message say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The





                                                          10050



                 message is accepted.

                            Read the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay that bill

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Lay

                 the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1276, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5653, an

                 act to amend -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,

                 there is a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the message say

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed, nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Read the last section.





                                                          10051



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 74.  This

                 act shall take effect on the -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1277, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5656, an

                 act to amend Chapter 549 of the Laws of 2000.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the message say

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.





                                                          10052



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            The Secretary will read 1249.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1249, Senator Johnson moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 6873 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4979,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1249.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1249, by Member of the Assembly Vitaliano,

                 Assembly Print Number 6873, an act to amend

                 the Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.





                                                          10053



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could go

                 to the controversial calendar now.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1235, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 1168, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to requiring.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator McGee, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes, sir.

                            Mr. President, this bill will

                 require the immediate suspension or revocation

                 of an offender's driver's license when a

                 compulsory chemical test is administered

                 pursuant to a court test, unless the person is

                 unable to refuse the test.

                            The current law requires the

                 immediate suspension and revocation of a





                                                          10054



                 license upon refusal to submit to a chemical

                 test.  Yet if a court order is granted to

                 conduct a chemical test, the law implies that

                 the driver's license is not to be suspended or

                 revoked.

                            Those who refuse to take a chemical

                 test incur the penalty of driver's license

                 suspension or revocation.  This penalty should

                 not be removed just because a court order was

                 obtained to proceed with the chemical test.

                 If anything, the penalty should be stronger if

                 a court order must be obtained.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    You're welcome.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.

                 President, will the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator McGee, will you yield?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.





                                                          10055



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just so I'm

                 clear on this, Senator, this says that "when

                 the test is administered."  Is there a

                 requirement that there be a positive result

                 from this test before these suspensions occur?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Well, the -

                 there's an immediate suspension and revocation

                 of an offender's driver's license if they

                 refuse to take the chemical test.  Is that

                 what you mean?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    No.  Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor will

                 continue to yield.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Sure.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    One of the

                 difficulties sometimes, Senator, is that this

                 of course is a section plucked out of a

                 statute that has A through G.  This is F.  And

                 I'm just trying to figure out, this says, as I

                 read it, that when the test is administered

                 then the person affected immediately has their

                 license suspended.

                            My question is, obviously it can't

                 be just the administration of the test.

                 Doesn't there have to be a positive finding





                                                          10056



                 that suggests that alcohol or some other

                 substance that would influence their ability

                 to operate the vehicle has been found in their

                 blood system?  It can't be just the test.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    The current law

                 requires an immediate suspension and

                 revocation of a license upon a refusal to

                 submit to a chemical test.  The law then

                 allows a petition to the court for an order to

                 conduct a chemical test.  If the court order

                 is granted, the law implies that the driver's

                 license is not suspended and revoked.

                            In other words, what they're saying

                 is that if you refuse to take a chemical test

                 immediately, then your license is revoked.  If

                 they then have to go and get a court order,

                 then your license is not revoked.  The driver

                 then is -- in a case where a court order is

                 obtained, the violator is escaping from a

                 penalty that would be applied if there were no

                 court order.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again,

                 through you, Mr. President.  I'm not sure,

                 maybe I'm missing something here.  If the

                 sponsor will yield to another question.





                                                          10057



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator, will you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes, I will.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    The rule now

                 is if you fail to take the test, your license

                 is automatically suspended.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Automatically.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    This bill.

                 As I understand it, says if there's a court

                 order that says you have to take the test,

                 then you still have it automatically

                 suspended.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    That's what the

                 bill says, yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    My question

                 is, if the test comes back without any

                 presence of alcohol in your system, do you

                 still have your license suspended if the test

                 proves that you weren't driving while you were

                 intoxicated?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes.  Yes, it

                 does.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger.





                                                          10058



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if I could just make sure I

                 understand the answer, then.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    It was

                 yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If you have a

                 suspicion and they ask that you take the test

                 and you refuse to take it, they can then get a

                 court order that says you have to take it, and

                 you take it.

                            But if the test result shows that

                 you didn't have any alcohol in your system,

                 then what -- you've in essence submitted to

                 the test, it's been proven that you weren't

                 driving while you were intoxicated, and you

                 still lose your license?

                            SENATOR McGEE:    This bill says if

                 chemical test refusal penalties are to serve

                 as a deterrent, they must be applied in every

                 case where there is a refusal.

                            In other words, the law -- as I

                 said, the law allows a petition for a court

                 order to conduct a chemical test.  If the

                 court order is granted, the law implies the

                 driver's license is not suspended or revoked.





                                                          10059



                            In those cases where a order is

                 obtained, the violator is escaping from a

                 penalty provided by the report, the chemical

                 test.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, I'll thank Senator McGee for

                 her answer.

                            I'm not sure I understand this

                 bill, Senator.  And I'm still not quite sure

                 what to do.  I've supported strict measures to

                 enforce the drunk driving laws and to require

                 that people that fail to take a test be

                 properly punished.  But as I understand it,

                 what this bill says is if you refuse to take

                 the test, you then get a court order that says

                 you have to take the test, you take the test

                 and it shows that you weren't under the

                 influence of alcohol, it seems to me that that

                 turns the law on its head.

                            I mean, I don't understand then why

                 the penalty would be appropriate.  The theory

                 is -- and maybe somebody can clarify this for





                                                          10060



                 me -- the theory is that people that don't

                 want to take the test do so because they know

                 that the test or there's a likelihood that the

                 test will show they were driving under the

                 influence.

                            And my concern is, at least as I

                 understand what Senator McGee has explained,

                 if you get a test and it shows that you

                 weren't, doesn't that suggest that your

                 original refusal was not inappropriate and in

                 fact what you were doing was protecting your

                 right against self-incrimination and then you

                 found out that there wasn't any truth to the

                 original suspicion that there was alcohol or

                 that the person was operating under the

                 influence?

                            I'm not sure I understand this bill

                 and what it involves.  So perhaps some other

                 member may be able to enlighten me.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Yes, I can.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    First of all, if

                 the client did decline, the client is an idiot

                 if he wasn't drinking.





                                                          10061



                            But the problem, I think, is that

                 under the law now it doesn't matter what the

                 test turns out.  If you refuse to take a test

                 under the law -- and under the motor vehicle

                 rules which came actually before the law, but

                 we put it in force -- you automatically lose

                 your license for six months.  Not because you

                 were drinking, but because you refused the

                 test.

                            I think what her bill does is put

                 together the issue of drinking and refusing

                 the test.  I think the one difference is that

                 what her bill does, as I understand it, is

                 allows, when you refuse the test, that your

                 license can be taken away virtually

                 immediately or as soon as you -- I guess as

                 soon as you get before the judge.  Which I

                 think is actually pretty well done now, except

                 not in an as expeditious a manner.

                            I think you have to remember,

                 Richard, that driving is not a right, it's a

                 privilege.  And the arguments that we've had

                 over this deals with the fact that when people

                 refuse to take a test, they put everybody in a

                 tough position.  A lot of times you can't get





                                                          10062



                 a court order fast enough to take a valuable

                 test anyways.

                            And it's happened, and I know it's

                 happened to some law enforcement people that

                 by the time they get the order, the person's

                 blood alcohol level is down because the

                 alcohol is out of them.  So that one of the

                 arguments, I think, is that the person may

                 well have been drunk but by the time you get

                 the court order, they're no longer drunk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I won't quiz Senator Volker.  I

                 think he's absolutely correct.  That's why I

                 was confused by Senator McGee's explanation,

                 because I wasn't sure what the consequence -

                 I mean, there's no question that under the

                 current law, if you refuse to take a test, you

                 lose your license.  But that would be premised

                 on the fact that you had something to hide,

                 that you were disguising the fact or refusing

                 to acknowledge the fact that you were under

                 the influence of alcohol or had been drinking.





                                                          10063



                            And it just seems to me that if the

                 test comes back positive, it undercuts the

                 notion -- or if it comes back negative, I

                 should say, it undercuts the notion that

                 somebody has been drinking.  And assuming that

                 it's properly applied within the two-hour

                 period, that would be proof that they weren't

                 guilty of anything and in essence they lose

                 their license even though they're not guilty

                 of anything.

                            Senator McGee, I guess I'm going to

                 vote for this bill upon Senator Volker's

                 clarification.  But we certainly give our

                 police officers a lot of authority to demand

                 that test.  And it seems to me if the result

                 were to come back without any alcohol, it

                 would undercut the reason for giving the test

                 in the first place.

                            And I'll with reluctance vote for

                 this bill and wait to see how it comes out in

                 the law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            Any other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.





                                                          10064



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1237, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Nolan, Assembly Print Number

                 7458, an act to amend the Labor Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside for the day.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1238, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2216B,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation





                                                          10065



                 to the administration and monitoring.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Can I have an

                 explanation, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Volker, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

                 this bill is a bill that's been around in one

                 form or another for a couple of years, but

                 it's an agreement between the dental

                 hygienists and the Dental Society, both of

                 whom support this bill.  And thanks to the

                 committee chairman, who shall remain unnamed,

                 to my left, this bill was amended so that I

                 think it would probably be considered to be in

                 proper form.

                            There were some objections before

                 because of the question of direct supervision

                 of the dentist over the dental hygienist.

                 Now, the law already, if you look at it very

                 carefully, says that the dentist must

                 supervise the dental hygienist.  But to be

                 very clear, the B amendment makes it perfectly

                 clear that the supervising dentist must remain

                 in the dental office and directly supervise





                                                          10066



                 the dental hygienist in the administration and

                 monitoring of nitrous oxide and Novocain.

                            I think probably most of you

                 realize that nitrous oxide -- and if you want,

                 I'll read the technical term.  That's laughing

                 gas.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    And the dentist

                 must also, by the way, examine the condition

                 of the patient after the procedure is

                 completed.

                            I think it's pretty

                 straightforward.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect 540 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.





                                                          10067



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1243, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly Print Number

                 7696A, an act to amend the Civil Rights Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    On behalf of

                 Senator Bonacic, current law provides that a

                 witness in a state agency investigation has

                 the right to an attorney.  This legislation

                 would allow a witness summoned to a hearing to

                 be accompanied by a nonattorney representative

                 from an employee organization.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.  And I appreciate Senator

                 Skelos pinch hitting for Senator Bonacic.  He

                 may not know the answer to this question, but

                 I'll ask it anyway if he will yield to a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:





                                                          10068



                 Senator Skelos, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 Skelos, one of the advantages, of course, of

                 having a lawyer appear on your behalf is that

                 they're protected by attorney-client

                 privilege, they can't disclose the substance

                 of the conversations.

                            Is there a similar protection for

                 the union representative in this case, or

                 would the union representative be in a

                 position where they could be subpoenaed to

                 appear at a hearing -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I am not aware

                 of any confidentiality.  And of course that

                 would be your option of taking the individual

                 with you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Skelos.

                            I'm going to vote in favor of this

                 bill because I don't mind the idea of an

                 employee representative going to these

                 hearings.





                                                          10069



                            But I would suggest we're going to

                 get into the same problem that we had with

                 the -- that Senator Volker had in the police

                 departments, when the issue will be whether

                 the discussions between the union

                 representative and the individual are

                 protected by some type of qualified privilege.

                 Because what will eventually happen is they

                 will subpoena the representative to come in

                 and attempt to verify the accounts that were

                 given to them by the employee in the

                 proceeding.

                            I just -- it just strikes me as

                 that's a problem that this bill invites and

                 that will be right around the corner next

                 time.

                            I'll still vote in favor, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.





                                                          10070



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1247, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4672, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to the length of semitrailers.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Can we have

                 explanation on that, please.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1252, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5271, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Can we have

                 an explanation on that bill, please.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10071



                 1256, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5475, an

                 act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Larkin, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President,

                 who asked?  So I can make -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger requested the explanation.

                 He's asked for the explanation, sir.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Richard, that

                 wasn't confession, was it?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Larkin yields.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Richard, this is

                 a new bill that -- this bill makes amendments

                 to the General Municipal Law in relation to

                 provisions governing the games of chance.

                 Specifically, this bill will amend the

                 structure for the payment of license fees for

                 manufacturers' placement of bar codes required

                 for packaging and credit provisions.

                            If you remember a couple of years

                 ago, Richard, we discussed why don't we

                 package all of this together, because we





                                                          10072



                 didn't have the bar graphs on them before and

                 all that.  This has taken it all together.

                            It also takes one other provision

                 in it.  In amending the bill, we're going to

                 provide for the manufacturers to pay either a

                 flat fee of a stated amount as their yearly

                 New York State bell jar license or the current

                 fee of $25 plus 2 percent gross sales.  And

                 we've discussed this with everybody, all the

                 vendors that do bell jars.  And originally we

                 had asked for 5 percent, and they thought

                 2 percent was more appropriate.

                            I can continue.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    That's

                 good, Senator.

                            Senator Dollinger?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation

                 satisfactory, Mr. President.  You can just

                 read the last section.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Any

                 other Senator wish to be heard?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call





                                                          10073



                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1258, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5489,

                 an act to amend the Civil Rights Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator LaValle, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            In 1979 this Legislature passed

                 probably the first laws in the nation

                 protecting individuals who went through

                 genetic testing.  We protected them in a

                 number of ways.  Any test results would need

                 informed consent.  We protected them in the

                 Executive Law in terms of their employment so

                 that both insurance companies and employers

                 could not take advantage of an employee who





                                                          10074



                 wanted to go through genetic testing.

                            Yesterday this body spoke about the

                 GE-NY-SIS legislation, and we talked about the

                 need and what is going on in terms of genome

                 research and the research into genetic

                 predispositions.

                            This legislation allows and carves

                 out a -- that would allow researchers to, with

                 informed explicit written consent of a donor,

                 would -- that an individual who is going

                 through genetic testing and has donated

                 samples, they, the donor, would give explicit

                 written consent that the sample that is being

                 donated could -- for a specific period of

                 time, the researcher can do research on that

                 tissue.  And it involves coding that the

                 institution would establish to protect the

                 identity of the individual.

                            So what we have done in this

                 legislation is to continue with genetic

                 testing, allow samples to be used for

                 research, but in all situations to guard the

                 privacy of the individual who is having that

                 tissue -- would allow the researcher to do

                 research while making sure that privacy was





                                                          10075



                 being given to the individual.

                            That's it, Senator Dollinger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will just yield

                 to, I think, just one question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator, will you yield for one question?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator

                 LaValle, this appears to be a well-constructed

                 bill with lots of provisions in it.  But my

                 question deals with what happens if the donor

                 is deceased.

                            I would assume that oftentimes the

                 type of genetic research may involve someone

                 who has a terminal illness or they may be

                 studying for those who have particular rates

                 of morbidities.  But I don't see any provision

                 that talks about -

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, the

                 donor is in control of the time period that

                 the researcher must -- could do research on

                 that tissue.  If they said upon my death that





                                                          10076



                 is the period, then the tissue is destroyed at

                 that point in time, because it is

                 time-specific.

                            If the donor -- and the donor has

                 to carve out a period, or they can leave it

                 open-ended.  And at any time, at any time they

                 can come back in, the legislation allows for

                 them to say:  Well, you know, I had indicated

                 that you can do research on this for 10 years,

                 but I am withdrawing my consent.  At that

                 point, consent is withdrawn, tissue is

                 destroyed.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will just yield

                 to a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator LaValle, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is there any

                 corresponding piece of this bill that deals

                 with the concept of sort of a surrogate

                 decision-making, in the sense that they would

                 appoint the power to a family member after





                                                          10077



                 death to make decisions about use of the

                 samples or the testing or anything of that

                 nature?  I didn't see it in a quick

                 read-through.

                            SENATOR LaVALLE:    No, it doesn't.

                            But the key element here -- and

                 here we're into an area, Senator, and I'm

                 going to do some conjecture.  And doing some

                 practice in this area, I would say that an

                 individual could -- because the most important

                 thing is the donor is in control.  So the

                 donor could sign, in a durable power -- no,

                 they couldn't even do that, because durable

                 powers cease on death.

                            So they couldn't -- as we're now

                 talking this through, so they couldn't do it

                 in that way.  And the same would be on any

                 other consent, it would cease with the

                 individual's death.

                            So I think we have gone through a

                 legal analysis here on this floor that I think

                 I feel comfortable with.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  Thank





                                                          10078



                 you, Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator

                 LaValle.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm going to

                 vote in favor of this.  As I read it quickly,

                 Senator, this is a well-laid-out system of

                 protection in the disclosure of genetic

                 information.

                            I do think, Senator, that at some

                 point that issue, the question of the family's

                 involvement or who is going to make future

                 decisions if the person who donated the tissue

                 or the sample is deceased, my prediction would

                 be that we'll be back here at some point

                 trying to resolve the legality of that issue

                 as well.

                            I'm going to vote in favor of it

                 and urge my colleagues to do so, with an

                 understanding that we'll probably have to

                 revisit this at some time in the future.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            Any other Senator wish to be heard

                 on the bill?





                                                          10079



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1259, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5509, an

                 act to amend Chapter 459 of the Laws of 1996.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10080



                 1264, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5589,

                 an act in relation to the state intervention.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

                 for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is laid aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1267, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5595,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 authorized dispositions.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Morahan, an explanation has been requested of

                 1267 by Senator -- who requested the

                 explanation, please? -- by Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Senator, I

                 would ask that that bill and the following

                 bill be laid aside for the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Calendars 1267 and 1268 will be laid aside for

                 the day.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 please lay aside the balance of the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The





                                                          10081



                 balance of the calendar will be laid aside.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there any

                 housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, we

                 have a little bit to do here, Senator.  One

                 amendment.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could do

                 that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

                 on page number X I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 1226, Senate

                 Print Number 5574, and ask that said bill be

                 retained on the Third Reading Calendar on

                 behalf of Senator Stafford.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bill will retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

                 thank you.  Mr. President, I would like to

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 310 and 1273.





                                                          10082



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Hassell-Thompson will be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 310 and

                 1273.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, I would ask

                 for unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar Number 1239 which passed

                 earlier this evening.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Seward will be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 1239.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Please recognize

                 Senator Paterson.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 there will be a conference of the Minority

                 tomorrow morning at 10:30 in the Minority

                 Conference Room, Room 314.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Conference of the Minority tomorrow morning in

                 the Minority Conference Room -- did you say

                 10:30 a.m., Senator?





                                                          10083



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    10:30.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    -- at

                 10:30 a.m.

                            Senator Malcolm Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Thank

                 you, Mr. President.  I request unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 1235.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Malcolm Smith will be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1235.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of Senator Bruno, I just wish to

                 urge all the members tomorrow to be in the

                 chamber.  In that it's expected that this will

                 be our last regular day of session, we have

                 many bills to discuss tomorrow.  So if all

                 members could be in the chamber, it certainly

                 would be appreciated.

                            And there being no further

                 business, I move we adjourn until Wednesday,

                 June 20th, at 11:00 a.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until





                                                          10084



                 Wednesday, June 20th, at 11:00 a.m.

                            (Whereupon, at 7:04 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)