Regular Session - June 20, 2001

                                                              10085



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               June 20, 2001

                                 11:26 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







                 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

                 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

















                                                          10086



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    In the absence of

                 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of

                 silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Tuesday, June 19, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, June 18,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.





                                                          10087



                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack,

                 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the

                 following nomination:

                            As a justice of the Supreme Court

                 of the Ninth Judicial District, Edward D.

                 Carni, of Syracuse.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Good morning.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Good morning.

                            SENATOR LACK:    I rise to move the

                 nomination of Edward D. Carni, of Syracuse, as

                 a justice of the Supreme Court for the Ninth

                 Judicial District.

                            We received the nomination of this

                 fine candidate from the Governor.  The

                 committee has examined the credentials of

                 Judge Carni.  They have been found to be

                 eminently satisfactory.  He appeared before

                 the committee earlier this morning and by

                 unanimous vote was moved to the floor for

                 consideration at this time.





                                                          10088



                            And I would most respectfully yield

                 to my colleague Senator DeFrancisco for

                 purposes of a second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Madam

                 President, I really like this job.  I enjoy

                 doing what I'm doing.  But there are certain

                 occasions when it's very, very satisfying,

                 more than most of the time, and that's an

                 occasion such as today, when a good friend, an

                 outstanding attorney, a good judge -- and

                 basically the best compliment I can give him

                 is a good man -- Ed Carni is going to ascend

                 to the Supreme Court judgeship.

                            I've known Ed for a very long time,

                 and I've known his family, his wife Sula,

                 who's here, his children, Joe, Alex, and

                 Gabriel, budding politicians, all of them, his

                 parents, Mr. and Mrs. Carni, his mother and

                 father-in-law, Mr. and Mrs. Masouras.  They're

                 all here.  It's a strong, strong family,

                 strong background, and maybe that's why his

                 character is what it is.

                            I try a lot of cases, and there's





                                                          10089



                 no question that as a judge you have to know

                 the law, as a judge you have to have certain

                 decorum, you have to make sure that fairness

                 is the result.  There's no question in my mind

                 that Ed Carni has all of those qualities to

                 provide a fair trial and justice to all those

                 who go before him.

                            So as I started at the outset, it's

                 a wonderful pleasure for me to second the

                 nomination and to congratulate the Governor

                 for having the good judgment of appointing

                 judicial candidates like Ed Carni and all of

                 the rest that are before us today.

                            So I second the nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Edward D. Carni, of

                 Syracuse, as a justice of the Supreme Court of

                 the Ninth Judicial District.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And on behalf of the Senate, as its





                                                          10090



                 President, I want to congratulate Justice

                 Carni and his family on this wonderful

                 elevation and wish you the best of luck.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Dora L. Irizarry, of New

                 York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise once again to move the

                 nomination of Dora L. Irizarry as a judge of

                 the Court of Claims.  Her credentials have

                 been examined by the committee, have been

                 found to be eminently satisfactory.  She

                 appeared before the full Judiciary Committee

                 meeting earlier this morning, was unanimously

                 moved to the floor for consideration at this

                 time.

                            And I would most respectfully yield

                 to my colleague Senator Goodman for purposes

                 of a second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman.





                                                          10091



                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, it is a privilege and a pleasure

                 for me to second this nomination.  Judge

                 Irizarry is presently seated on the Court of

                 Claims, where she's had a very distinguished

                 record indeed.  She has presided over felony

                 hearings and trials in the New York County

                 Supreme Court.  Prior to this, she's managed a

                 caseload of over a thousand cases annually in

                 the Kings County Supreme Court, Criminal Term,

                 from arraignment to disposition or until ready

                 for trial.

                            She managed weekly caseloads of

                 over a thousand cases in criminal court,

                 presided over criminal hearings and trials in

                 the State Supreme Court of Kings County and

                 New York City Criminal Court.

                            At a time when the court system is

                 exceedingly crowded and jammed in many areas,

                 it's very refreshing to know that we have a

                 judge of high administrative skill who will be

                 able to break these logjams and move the cases

                 expeditiously but thoughtfully through the

                 system.

                            Her employment background is very





                                                          10092



                 substantial, and I will not be able to touch

                 upon all of her distinguished record.  But let

                 it be said that she was an assistant district

                 attorney in the office of Robert Morgenthau,

                 she was a special assistant district attorney

                 prior to that in the office of the special

                 narcotics prosecutor, an assistant district

                 attorney in the office of the Honorable Mario

                 Merola in Bronx County.

                            She was educated at Columbia

                 University Law School and is an alumna of Yale

                 University, from which she received her B.A.

                 degree.  She was admitted to the bar of course

                 in various jurisdictions, including the

                 federal court in the Southern and Eastern

                 Districts.  She is fluent in English and

                 Spanish, with a command of French.

                            So here we have a citizen of the

                 world, someone of great skill and capacity

                 whose demonstrated record surely warrants our

                 immediate approval of her nomination.

                            Thank you very much.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Dora L. Irizarry, of

                 New York, as a judge of the Court of Claims.





                                                          10093



                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Judge Irizarry is

                 hereby confirmed.  And congratulations on

                 behalf of the Senate, and best wishes to you

                 in your new term.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, S. Michael Nadel, of

                 New York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise once again to move the

                 nomination of S. Michael Nadel, of New York,

                 as a judge of the Court of Claims, to succeed

                 himself.

                            Judge Nadel's credentials have been

                 examined by the committee, they have been

                 found to be exceedingly in order.  He appeared

                 before the committee earlier this morning, was





                                                          10094



                 unanimously moved from the committee to the

                 floor for consideration at this time.

                            For many members of this chamber,

                 Mike Nadel's past is well known.  He was a

                 first assistant counsel to Governor Hugh

                 Carey, deputy chief administrator of the

                 Unified Court System under Chief Judge

                 Lawrence Cooke, a judge of the New York City

                 Criminal Court, counsel to the district

                 attorney of Kings County, and of course now,

                 currently for the last few years, a judge of

                 the Court of Claims, an exceedingly varied,

                 well-known legal career and an excellent,

                 excellent reappointment to the Court of

                 Claims.

                            And I would respectfully move the

                 nomination, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of S. Michael Nadel, of

                 New York, as a judge of the Court of Claims.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is





                                                          10095



                 hereby confirmed.

                            And on behalf of the Senate, I'd

                 like to congratulate Judge Nadel on this

                 wonderful achievement.  Best wishes.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Mario J. Rossetti, of

                 Williamsville.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I respectfully rise to move the

                 nomination of Mario J. Rossetti, of

                 Williamsville, to succeed himself as a judge

                 of the Court of Claims.

                            We've examined the judge's record,

                 it was found exemplary.  He appeared before

                 the committee earlier this morning, was

                 unanimously moved from the committee to the

                 floor for consideration at this time.

                            And I most happily relinquish the

                 floor to my colleague Senator Rath for

                 purposes of a second.





                                                          10096



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Senator

                 Lack, Madam President.

                            Judge Rossetti, I'm happy to

                 welcome you here on this wonderful day with

                 your wife, Helen, and your family who have

                 come down from Western New York for a very

                 auspicious occasion.

                            You were first, of course,

                 appointed in 1987 by Governor Cuomo,

                 reappointed in 1991 for a nine-year term to

                 the Court of Claims.  Your experience and your

                 credentials, as Senator Lack has indicated,

                 have been examined; you are more than

                 qualified, with your 26 years of experience in

                 general practice of law, civil court, criminal

                 court, in front of the Port Authority general

                 counsel -- I should say not in front of, but

                 as assistant general counsel to the

                 Niagara-Frontier Port Authority.

                            And I say that because Judge

                 Rossetti is a man of our community, not only

                 has legal and professional credentials but,

                 when you look at his civil credentials, his

                 activities throughout our community for so





                                                          10097



                 many long years.

                            And as so many of you, as you've

                 stood up and recognized the judges in your

                 community, I am proud to be able to second the

                 nomination for Judge Rossetti, because he is a

                 friend, he has worked in the trenches with us

                 before he was in the courts, he has been a

                 follower, he has been a leader, and he has

                 indeed raised the opinion and the stature of

                 all judges in the state of New York.

                            And I'm proud to be able to second

                 you, Judge, welcome you to a new term and say

                 thank you for being here today and thank you

                 to your family for joining you.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I too rise and second this

                 nomination of Judge Mario J. Rossetti.  And as

                 Senator Rath pointed out, Judge Rossetti has

                 been a member of the court now for many years,

                 and I remember him from another life a long

                 time ago.  And I just can't think of a finer

                 person or a more fair person to act as a





                                                          10098



                 member of the judiciary in the state of

                 New York, and it's an honor for me to also

                 second his nomination.

                            And, Madam President, I will now

                 yield to Senator Volker, the senior Senator

                 from Western New York, who was probably up

                 before I was.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Senator Maziarz,

                 I'm used to being disregarded.  I know you're

                 powerful -

                            No, anyways, I just want to say

                 that I've known Mario Rossetti, Judge Rossetti

                 for a long, long time.  He was first appointed

                 under former Governor Mario Cuomo.  He

                 served -- frankly, I think he could have been

                 appointed by any governor in my time in the

                 Legislature because of his stature.

                            He's a good friend.  He's also the

                 father of six children, which is probably

                 enough in itself to take people's time.  But

                 he's one of the most respected judges in Erie

                 County, and I think it's an excellent choice,

                 and I know he'll continue to serve as he has

                 in the past.

                            And I wish him good luck.





                                                          10099



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I too would

                 like to rise and second the nomination of

                 Judge Rossetti.

                            He's been a long-time friend of my

                 family's, and he's done a great job,

                 obviously, with the reappointments, and he'll

                 continue to do a good job.  And as proud as we

                 are of the job he does, I'm more proud to say

                 he's my friend.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Mario J. Rossetti, of

                 Williamsville, as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            As President of the Senate, I want

                 to congratulate you, Judge.  I had the

                 opportunity to work with your son when I was a

                 district attorney, and apparently his





                                                          10100



                 excellence is only a reflection on the

                 excellence he inherited from you.

                            Best wishes to you.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Edward A. Sheridan, of

                 Clifton Park.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 Edward A. Sheridan, of Clifton Park, as a

                 judge of the Court of Claims.  We have

                 examined Judge Sheridan's record; it is

                 exemplary.  He appeared before the committee

                 earlier this morning, was unanimously moved to

                 the floor for consideration at this time.

                            And I most respectfully yield to my

                 colleague Senator Hannon for purposes of a

                 second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes, Madam

                 President.





                                                          10101



                            In speaking on behalf of Senator

                 Bruno, who on this last scheduled day of

                 session is trying to do several different

                 things at once and can't come out, I simply

                 want to commend to this body the confirmation

                 of Judge Sheridan.

                            I had a chance to work with Judge

                 Sheridan before he ascended to the bench, and

                 I want to tell you that he is one of the

                 finest lawyers I've ever had a chance to work

                 with.

                            He had toiled in the Department of

                 Motor Vehicles as their counsel, and even had

                 served for a couple of years as their

                 executive deputy, a truly thankless job, but

                 he was there at a time when that agency

                 really, truly turned around.

                            Before that, he had been the chief

                 law assistant at the Court of Appeals,

                 preceded by being a law secretary to Matthew

                 Jason, coming out of the Notre Dame School of

                 Law.

                            And besides all that, not just

                 bringing service on the bench, service in the

                 executive branch, but also service as a





                                                          10102



                 private practitioner, something I think is

                 very essential to our bench.

                            I want to commend a highly

                 qualified candidate who has done a good job in

                 ten years as Court of Claims and acting

                 Supreme Court justice, Edward Sheridan, to

                 this body.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I would echo the remarks of Senator

                 Hannon.  As a practicing member of the bar in

                 the Capital District, I've interacted with

                 Judge Sheridan and many people who appear in

                 front of Judge Sheridan, and he is really a

                 lawyer's lawyer.  He's very, very bright, as

                 evidenced by the remarks of Senator Hannon,

                 hardworking, fair, and compassionate.  And

                 he's really someone we can all be proud of.

                            And I join with the rest of this

                 chamber to reconfirm Judge Sheridan.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Edward A. Sheridan, of





                                                          10103



                 Clifton Park, as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Judge Sheridan is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            As President of the Senate and

                 former Rensselaer County district attorney in

                 particular, I want to congratulate Judge

                 Sheridan as my friend and former colleague.  I

                 had the opportunity to work with Judge

                 Sheridan, who reviewed my record frequently as

                 acting county judge in Rensselaer County.

                            I know personally of his fairness,

                 his compassion, his diligence, his fine

                 intellect.  And in all other qualities that

                 would go into making an able judge, he is

                 stellar.

                            So I wish you the very best, Judge

                 Sheridan, in your reappointment, and continued

                 diligence and service in the Capital Region.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.





                                                          10104



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Rena K. Uviller, of New York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise once again to move the

                 nomination of Rena K. Uviller as a judge of

                 the Court of Claims, to succeed herself.

                            Judge Uviller's credentials have

                 been examined by the committee.  She is

                 actually very well known to the committee.  We

                 were very happy to move her nomination earlier

                 this morning before the full committee, which

                 was done so unanimously, for consideration on

                 the floor at this time.

                            Judge Uviller has been a very well

                 known judge for over 20 years in Manhattan,

                 first elected to the Civil Court in November

                 of 1978, assigned a couple of years thereafter

                 to the Criminal Court, appointed by the

                 Governor to the Court of Claims, and has been

                 an acting Supreme Court justice for 20 years

                 in New York, handling some very noteworthy

                 cases -- at the same time, always staying in

                 touch with the community and doing exactly





                                                          10105



                 what we expect of well-known, well-regarded

                 acting Supreme Court justices, handling her

                 caseload and staying actively involved as a

                 member in the community, and, quite frankly,

                 with some of the highest known credentials of

                 any judge in the State of New York.

                            It is a pleasure, Madam President,

                 to move once again the nomination of Rena K.

                 Uviller to succeed herself as a judge of the

                 Court of Claims.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Madam

                 President, I started to say that Judge Uviller

                 and I go way back, but it's not way, we

                 just -- we go back.  But we attended a certain

                 law school in Manhattan.  And we knew at the

                 time that the judge was going to do well, and

                 she certainly has.

                            And she's a credit to the bench,

                 and we're so pleased to join in moving her

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Rena K. Uviller, of

                 New York, as a judge of the Court of Claims.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.





                                                          10106



                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And on behalf of the Senate, Judge

                 Uviller, I wish you the very best continued

                 success.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will continue to read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, William A. Wetzel, of

                 Briarcliff Manor.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to move the nomination of

                 William A. Wetzel, of Briarcliff Manor, as a

                 judge of the Court of Claims, to succeed

                 himself.

                            Judge Wetzel has appeared before

                 the committee before, and again earlier this

                 morning.  His credentials were examined and

                 found to be perfectly in order.  He appeared





                                                          10107



                 before the committee, which unanimously has

                 moved him to the floor for consideration at

                 this time.

                            Judge Wetzel has had a long and

                 extraordinary background in public service, as

                 a village trustee, deputy mayor and mayor of

                 Briarcliff Manor, then as a village justice of

                 Briarcliff Manor.  He was appointed to the

                 Court of Claims in 1995.  Before that, he was

                 a founding partner of the firm of Plunkett,

                 Wetzel, and Jaffe, and has performed admirably

                 as a member of the Court of Claims.

                            And I am most happy to move his

                 nomination for consideration by the full

                 Senate at this time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of William A. Wetzel, of

                 Briarcliff Manor, as a judge of the Court of

                 Claims.  All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And on behalf of the Senate, Judge





                                                          10108



                 Wetzel, congratulations and best wishes for

                 continued success.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the

                 Court of Claims, Michael A. Corriero, of

                 Brooklyn.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lack.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I rise for the last time to move

                 the nomination of Michael A. Corriero, of

                 Brooklyn, to succeed himself as a judge of the

                 Court of Claims.  We have reviewed his record,

                 which is exemplary.  He appeared before the

                 committee this morning, was unanimously moved

                 to the floor for consideration at this time.

                            And I would most respectfully yield

                 to my colleague Senator Connor for purposes of

                 a second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            First of all, I should disclose to

                 the house and to my colleagues any potential





                                                          10109



                 conflict.  I intend to vote on this, but I

                 think it's only fair to disclose that my sons,

                 Brian and Marty, have a dog-walking business,

                 and their very best customer is Judge

                 Corriero, for his dog Cicero.  And these past

                 three or four years, my boys have done quite

                 well, as well as a 10- or a 12-year-old can do

                 walking a dog, thanks to Judge Corriero and

                 his lovely wife Mary Ellen.

                            But I first spoke ten years ago in

                 favor of the judge's confirmation to the Court

                 of Claims.  He came to that position at the

                 time with extensive judicial experience.  And

                 since 1980, he had served as a Criminal Court

                 judge of the City of New York, and since 1983

                 had been an acting Supreme Court justice.

                            He presided even then over special

                 youth parts in criminal courts and had been

                 appointed an acting Supreme Court judge.  He

                 served a brief term as a Supreme Court justice

                 on the appointment of the Governor, and then

                 was appointed to the Court of Claims.

                            He has served in Manhattan with

                 distinction in the Supreme Court.  He

                 generally presides in a youth part, which is a





                                                          10110



                 court set aside to try 13- and 14- and

                 15-year-olds who are being tried as adults for

                 crimes.  He has handled some of the most

                 sensitive -- some notorious cases, in fact,

                 from the standpoint of the press coverage and

                 interest in them.  Regrettably so, that those

                 cases were so covered, because they were in

                 many cases shocking to the public's

                 conscience.

                            He has a wonderful reputation as a

                 jurist.  He has published, he has taught.  He

                 has been a credit to the bench.  I am proud to

                 say he is not only my neighbor, he is the

                 resident of the apartment across the hall from

                 mine.

                            And I'm proud to second his

                 nomination because of his excellent record as

                 a judge.  I know he will continue to serve the

                 people of New York in this next term of

                 office.

                            So, Madam President, I move the

                 confirmation of Judge Corriero's nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, in my long friendship with Senator





                                                          10111



                 Connor it never came up that we had this

                 mutual friend in Judge Corriero.

                            I was in the Queens DA's office

                 when he moved from the criminal court to

                 acting Supreme Court.  I remember him also in

                 Brooklyn.  And I've been in the courtroom when

                 he was presiding over the special youth parts.

                            And, you know, sometimes when you

                 are speaking in those environments you don't

                 know who's actually hearing you.  But all of

                 you should have gotten the opportunity to hear

                 some of the things that Judge Corriero said to

                 some of the young people who had run afoul of

                 the law:  his encouragement, at the same time

                 admonishment.

                            Some of those statements were

                 things that I kind of borrowed or repeated in

                 some of the opportunities that we get as

                 legislators to go and speak to younger people,

                 and even to go and speak in some of the

                 correctional institutions.

                            He's a person who not only has

                 outstanding ability, but the reason I think

                 they gave him the sensitive cases is because

                 he does have this personal sensitivity.





                                                          10112



                            And I guess that you meet people in

                 life sometimes who are that special, and I

                 think we are really very well off as a state

                 to have him on the Court of Claims, to

                 reappoint him, and perhaps in some other

                 service.  And I'm very proud to be voting for

                 him.

                            I would wish that my colleague

                 Senator Connor would reconsider what he said

                 about his 10- and 12-year-old sons and their

                 dog-walking business, that they're doing as

                 well as a 10- or 12-year-old can do.  I think

                 they're doing a little better than you and I

                 are right now, Marty.

                            But we join in our admiration, our

                 respect, and our regale of the efforts and the

                 achievements of Judge Corriero.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Michael A. Corriero, of

                 Brooklyn, as a judge of the Court of Claims.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is





                                                          10113



                 hereby confirmed.

                            And on behalf of the Senate, I wish

                 Judge Corriero every success.

                 Congratulations.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reports of select

                 committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Marchi, on

                 page number 24 I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 668, Senate

                 Print Number 3382A, and ask that said bill

                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The amendments

                 are received, and the bill will retain its

                 place on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.





                                                          10114



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  There will be an immediate

                 meeting of the Higher Education Committee in

                 Room 332.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Higher Education

                 Committee in Room 332.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, may we now take up the

                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 255, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

                 Assembly Print Number 4203, an act to amend

                 the Domestic Relations Law.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is





                                                          10115



                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 371, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3209A,

                 an act to authorize the Village of Pelham

                 Manor.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 417, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2980, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to providing.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          10116



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 525, by Member of the Assembly Vitaliano,

                 Assembly Print Number 4379, an act to amend

                 the Civil Service Law, in relation to the

                 authority.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 544, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3146B,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to the registration fee.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10117



                 571, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8566, an act to amend

                 the Insurance Law, in relation to clarifying.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 680, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3981A,

                 an act authorizing Rita C. Kelly to apply.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.





                                                          10118



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 754, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4777, an

                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to extending.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 789, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

                 Assembly Print Number 5522, an act to amend

                 the Public Health Law, in relation to

                 prohibiting.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect 120 days.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.





                                                          10119



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 817, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 4878A, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 developing.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 879, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3947, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 the total salary.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          10120



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 921, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4086A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to income eligibility.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1069, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5355A, an

                 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to

                 granting.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.





                                                          10121



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 48.  Nays,

                 2.  Senators Libous and Nozzolio recorded in

                 the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1105, by Senator M. Smith, Senate Print 5442,

                 an act authorizing the City of New York to

                 reconvey its interest.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1122, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5469, an

                 act to permit the reopening of the optional

                 twenty-year retirement plan.





                                                          10122



                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1131, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4011, an

                 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to the

                 reclassification.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1149, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate





                                                          10123



                 Print 3761A, an act in relation to authorizing

                 the City of New York.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There is a home

                 rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1166, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5556,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to the determination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.





                                                          10124



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1167, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5565,

                 an act to amend -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1201, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3959B, an

                 act to amend the Judiciary Law and others, in

                 relation to judges of the city courts.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1209, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5042A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to providing.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid





                                                          10125



                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1237, by Member of the Assembly Nolan,

                 Assembly Print Number 7458, an act to amend

                 the Labor Law, in relation to prevailing wage

                 supplements.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1247, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4672, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to the length of semitrailers.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is





                                                          10126



                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1252, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5271, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to school-zone speed limits.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay that bill

                 aside, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1257, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5486, an

                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and the

                 State Finance Law, in relation to enacting.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1264, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5589,

                 an act in relation to state intervention.





                                                          10127



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1266, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5592, an

                 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to

                 the powers.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1267, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5595,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 authorized dispositions.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10128



                 1268, by Senator Morahan -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1269, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5610, an

                 act to amend Chapter 953 of the Laws of 1983.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1270, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5612, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 excluding.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 60 days.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.





                                                          10129



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1271, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 5616, an act to amend the

                 Education Law, in relation to the

                 distribution.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1272, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 5622 -

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside temporarily.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, may we now have the reading of the

                 controversial calendar.





                                                          10130



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Controversial

                 reading of the calendar.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 525, by Member of the Assembly Vitaliano,

                 Assembly Print Number 4379, an act to amend

                 the Civil Service Law, in relation to the

                 authority.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Leibell,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, upon consent we'd like to call the

                 roll on that bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.





                                                          10131



                            Senator Duane, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President,

                 I'm a little confused.  Is there a revised

                 active list?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    No, there is not,

                 Senator.  The bills that are high, that

                 haven't aged to be read, are not being read.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1167, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5565,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 authorizing.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 26.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This bill is a





                                                          10132



                 $100 million tax package, and it's sponsored

                 by the City of New York.  It is divided into

                 various component parts which I'll be glad to

                 take you through quickly.

                            The first is a mortgage recording

                 tax, first-time homeowners' exclusion of

                 $150,000 of the first $300,000 in mortgages

                 from the 1 percent city recording mortgage

                 tax, and from the half-percent state mortgage

                 recording tax that produces revenues dedicated

                 to the city's general fund.  This would affect

                 10,000 -- or, excuse me -- yes, this appears

                 to be a typo in this note, 10,000 homebuyers.

                            Going on to the next facet of this,

                 it relates to an earned income tax credit, a

                 refundable credit equal to up to 5 percent of

                 the federal tax credit against the city's

                 personal income.  It would benefit 600,000

                 households with an average credit of $80.

                            Third is sales tax on clothing and

                 footwear.  The sales tax exemption on clothing

                 and footwear with a value of $110 or more for

                 all cities and counties, including New York

                 City, at local option, to eliminate the state

                 sales tax also.





                                                          10133



                            Dependent care credit of up to

                 40 percent of the state credit through 2003,

                 after which it becomes 32 percent of the state

                 credit.  It affects 124,000 tax filers with an

                 average credit of $185.

                            Fifth is the hotel tax, an

                 elimination of the $2 flat tax on hotel rooms

                 costing $40 or more.  Also an exemption of

                 small bed-and-breakfasts from the hotel tax

                 totally.  There are 29 of these in New York

                 City.  This would save travelers approximately

                 $40 million.

                            And let me remind you that the

                 previous reduction in the hotel tax had a very

                 salutary benefit on the city's economy, and it

                 is believed by the hotel industry and those in

                 charge of tourism in New York that it had a

                 very salutary stimulative effect.

                            Next is the co-op/condo abatement,

                 extension, and enhancement.  It continues the

                 co-op/condo abatement program at current

                 levels and allows for an enhancement at local

                 option.  An abatement program was implemented

                 in 1997 to reduce the disparity in property

                 tax burdens between co-ops and condos, Class





                                                          10134



                 2, and single-family homes of Class 1.

                            The abatement is currently 17½

                 percent of the tax for residential units with

                 an average assessed value of over $15,000 and

                 25 percent of the tax-free units with an

                 assessed value of less than $15,000.  This

                 would benefit 300,000 households, providing an

                 average benefit of $730 per household.

                            Finally, 1 percent of the green

                 buildings -- 1 percent of eligible property

                 for five years, capped at $5 per square foot

                 for buildings, which meet "green standards"

                 for major components.

                            And that's the overview of the

                 bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, will the sponsor yield to a

                 question?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman

                 does yield.

                            You may proceed, Senator Dollinger.





                                                          10135



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator,

                 what's the overall financial or fiscal impact?

                 Once these tax cuts accumulate and are phased

                 in, what's the final reduction in revenue that

                 the City of New York would see?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    $200 million in

                 city fiscal year 2003.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    200 million?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    200 million,

                 yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue

                 to yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Goodman,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, I will,

                 Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What I need

                 to understand, Senator Goodman, is why, at a

                 time when the City of New York is claiming

                 that it can't afford to pay a teacher raise in

                 its teacher contract, when there's a serious

                 question about the funding for schools in

                 New York, which I know you're well aware of





                                                          10136



                 under the CFE litigation, why is the City of

                 New York asking us to drop its revenue by

                 $235 million each year when it appears, from

                 an outsider, a nonresident of the city, that

                 the city is crying for additional resources

                 for education?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    As I've

                 indicated to you, this emanates from the Mayor

                 of the City of New York, who has requested

                 that the bill be passed expeditiously.  It is

                 his judgment, obviously, that the city's

                 economy will derive a net benefit from this

                 approach.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Well, again,

                 through you, Madam President, is it the

                 Mayor's position that by passing this tax cut

                 we'll actually get more revenue into the City

                 of New York and therefore be more likely to

                 put money to work for education?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    This is

                 believed to be beneficial to the city's

                 economy and presumably, if that were the case,

                 it would be beneficial to the education





                                                          10137



                 budget, which is obviously an issue that's

                 pending.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, thank you.  I thank Senator

                 Goodman.

                            I know, Senator Goodman, you've

                 carried the Mayor's bills in this house

                 before, and I appreciate your advocacy on

                 behalf of the City of New York and on behalf

                 of its Mayor in this house.

                            Madam President, I stand here today

                 as a nonresident of the city of New York.  I'm

                 from 300 miles away.  But seems to me it

                 becomes more difficult for everyone in this

                 state to look at the problem of financing

                 education in the city of New York, the problem

                 that was so graphically described in Judge

                 DeGrasse's decision in the CFE case, in which

                 he talked about the fact that there weren't

                 sufficient resources in the city of New York

                 to provide the quality of education that our

                 constitution requires we provide to every

                 single student.

                            Now, when we're faced with the

                 consequences of that decision, up on appeal,





                                                          10138



                 which could require that we spend billions of

                 dollars in additional resources for education

                 in our urban areas and in our nonperforming

                 school districts, the City of New York says:

                 We're willing to give away $235 million in

                 additional annual revenue that could go into

                 education.

                            I'm struck by what seems to be the

                 paradox of those two movements, one in favor

                 of more money for education, of which the city

                 would have to contribute and we may have to

                 contribute, and now a tax cut that says we can

                 give away large sums of money and -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Excuse me,

                 Senator Dollinger.  I think you can be heard

                 better now.  Hopefully you can be heard better

                 now.  Go ahead.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you

                 very much, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You're welcome.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And I'll

                 conclude briefly, Madam President.  It seems

                 to me that there's an irony that just as the

                 City of New York needs more money for

                 education, we're about to bless a $230 million





                                                          10139



                 annual tax cut which will take more money away

                 from education and, in my opinion, will lead

                 to the inevitable argument that the City of

                 New York is not doing its fair share to help

                 produce quality education.

                            It seems to me that this tax cut,

                 while I've voted for lots of tax cuts, is

                 going to create a problem for this

                 institution, for this government, for state

                 government in the future time, and may in the

                 long run be ill-advised for the City of New

                 York as well.

                            I would caution the Mayor to

                 reconsider.  This is not a time, when we need

                 more funds for education, to be giving away

                 $235 million on the if-come of some greater

                 economic benefit in the future.  I disagree

                 with the Mayor on this one.  I think this

                 money ought to go into education and not in

                 the form of a tax cut.

                            I'll vote no.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  I just have a question for Senator





                                                          10140



                 Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Yes, Senator.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

                 you, Senator.  Thank you, Madam President.

                            Senator Goodman, this budget that

                 New York City just passed, the Governor cut

                 education by approximately $130 million.  So

                 my question is, should we be concerned that

                 education funding has been cut despite the

                 fact that we need additional funding, based on

                 the Chancellor's plea to us and to the Mayor

                 and the City Council that we need more money,

                 but we're now giving away $250 million?

                            Is this a wise idea, do you think,

                 or -- I'm just wondering, how do we support

                 giving a $250 million tax cut, tax break to

                 citizens in New York City when in fact we need

                 an additional $130 million, at least, in order

                 to make the Board of Ed whole?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Senator, I

                 share your concern, as does, I think, every

                 citizen who's alert and following this action

                 here in the Legislature and at the Governor's

                 level and at the city budget level.  Obviously





                                                          10141



                 we want to be assured that we're going to

                 maximize the available funds for various

                 crucial purposes in the city, none more

                 crucial perhaps than that in the area of

                 education.

                            As you know, my colleagues and I on

                 this side, such as Senator Padavan, Senator

                 Velella, Senator Maltese, et cetera, are all

                 of the view that we want to do everything we

                 can to increase available funding for

                 secondary education.  And you are familiar, I

                 think, with the package that has been probably

                 a bipartisan one for some time.

                            The DeGrasse decision relates to

                 the question of available state aid.  This

                 does not directly relate to state aid, this

                 matter.  This is a matter of city tax policy

                 which is designed for the purpose of enhancing

                 the city's economy by virtue of the basic

                 principle that a tax cut can at times produce

                 more money than it loses for the entity doing

                 the cutting.

                            So that's the premise on which this

                 is based, and it's an arguable premise but one

                 which I think history suggests has great





                                                          10142



                 merit.  I would cite to you the federal

                 experience under President Reagan when he

                 proposed tax cuts.  The fact was that we did

                 net more revenue.  Unfortunately, certain of

                 his cabinet secretaries got out of control on

                 the expenditure side, which undermined the

                 long-range effort.

                            But fundamentally, the notion of

                 tax cutting being productive of increased

                 revenues is a valid one.  And that's what I

                 think underlies this idea as well.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Senator Goodman, for that explanation.

                            Madam President, briefly on this

                 legislation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    We in

                 New York City have, as I understand it, a

                 surplus.  And I certainly agree that we want

                 to in every way possible do whatever we can to

                 stimulate the economy.  We want to give

                 citizens a tax break.

                            But I think that in this instance

                 it is clearly a contradiction that the system





                                                          10143



                 in New York City is in crisis, and a major

                 part of the crisis is that we are not funding

                 education in New York City to the extent that

                 we need to.

                            I know that we are doing as much as

                 we can in New York State, but New York City

                 also has a responsibility to fund education to

                 the maximum possible.  And I think that the

                 citizens of New York City would prefer to have

                 us use the option of surplus to fund education

                 in New York City so that we can begin to see

                 the kind of improvement that we have all been

                 waiting for and working for at both the state

                 and city board of ed levels.

                            So I'm going to vote no on this

                 because I think that the children in New York

                 City should come first, must come first.  And

                 we now have -- the teachers in the City of

                 New York are paid less than their counterparts

                 in other counties around the state.  They're

                 waiting for a settlement on their negotiations

                 for an increase in salary.  I think we need to

                 do that.  The Board of Ed needs more money.

                            So for us to be giving a tax cut

                 which will in fact deplete and make it more





                                                          10144



                 impossible for our city to be able to meet the

                 demands of the teachers and the Board of Ed

                 for other reasons, I think it is

                 unconscionable.  So I will be voting against

                 this bill.

                            And hopefully we will be able to

                 ourselves do a budget in some reasonable time

                 so that we can help to offset the cut that the

                 Mayor has already and the City Council have

                 already done for the Board of Ed and the City

                 of New York.

                            I'm voting no, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 26.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, to

                 explain your vote.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Let me first preface what I'm going

                 to say by saying that I believe cities should

                 have the right of creating their own budgets





                                                          10145



                 and should have autonomy in what they are

                 doing.

                            This particular tax reduction

                 program has some good things and some not so

                 good things in it.  Allowing the city to

                 create an earned income tax credit is actually

                 a very good thing and will help the working

                 poor in the City of New York.

                            But, for instance, I think it's a

                 big mistake for the city to repeal the hotel

                 occupancy tax.  You know, it's easy enough to

                 eliminate taxes; it's very hard to reinstate

                 them.  And I think that particularly with the

                 booming tourism that's going on in New York

                 City, this is a tax which we could ill afford

                 to get rid of.

                            There are other good things in the

                 bill.  Certainly continuing to help co-op and

                 condo owners and moving towards equalizing the

                 rates they pay as compared to one-and-two

                 family homes is good, although institutionally

                 there are still problems in the way that we

                 levy the property taxes on that class of

                 property.

                            But again, to come back full





                                                          10146



                 circle, I think because it's important that we

                 allow New York City the autonomy to do what

                 they want to do, I'm going to vote yes on

                 this.  But I also think that I'm going to have

                 some difficulty making it so that we don't

                 have a shortfall or continue to have such a

                 shortfall in what would be fair funding for

                 our city's school system.

                            Thank you, Madam President.  I'm

                 voting yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You will be

                 recorded as voting in the affirmative, Senator

                 Duane.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

                 President, if I could just -- before you -

                 there will be an immediate -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Marcellino first, and then Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you

                 very much.

                            There will be an immediate meeting

                 of the Rules Committee in Room 332.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 Room 332.





                                                          10147



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Excuse me,

                 gentlemen.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Madam

                 President, to briefly explain my vote.

                            I'd just like to say that I'm going

                 to vote for this bill because I always let a

                 locality cut their own taxes.

                            But I'd like to comment

                 particularly that the Mayor of New York

                 obviously was paying attention to a lot of the

                 things coming out of this side of the aisle as

                 he picked up on the childcare tax credit, the

                 mortgage recording tax, first-time homeowners

                 idea that came out of this side, and the

                 elimination of the sales tax on clothing and

                 footwear that we've long supported,

                 particularly Senator Gentile.

                            I do have a little problem with

                 taking the $2 hotel tax off.  I could

                 understand that we did that once when the

                 hotels were in trouble.  But they're all

                 running at full capacity.  The $2 probably

                 won't be reduced.  And I think most of the





                                                          10148



                 tourists could afford it, and the City of

                 New York needs that particular money.

                            But in spite of that, I'm going to

                 support the bill.  Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You will be so

                 recorded as voting in the affirmative,

                 Senator.

                            Senator DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    To explain

                 my vote.

                            A couple of mentions have been made

                 of the hotel tax.  I just wanted to mention

                 that when we did allow the reduction in the

                 New York City hotel tax, there was an

                 exponential growth in the use of the hotels.

                 There were other reasons as well, but it was

                 one of the reasons cited for an increase in

                 the activity of tourism in the New York City

                 area.

                            So I agree with Senator Goodman

                 that this part is a good part as well, in view

                 of the fact that more revenues ultimately come

                 in by reason of people coming into the city

                 and being tourists in the city and spending

                 money.  So I think that aspect of the bill is





                                                          10149



                 as good as all the rest.

                            I vote aye.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You will be

                 recorded as voting in the affirmative, Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1167 are

                 Senators Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery, and

                 Paterson.  Ayes, 49.  Nays, 3.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            Senator DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I would

                 request unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 1069, Senate Print

                 Number 5355A.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You will be

                 recorded as voting in the negative on that

                 bill, Senator DeFrancisco.

                            Senator Malcolm Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Thank you

                 very much, Madam President.  I -

                            THE PRESIDENT:    To explain your





                                                          10150



                 vote?

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    To

                 explain my vote, yes.

                            Let me just say on behalf of some

                 of my other colleagues down in the City of

                 New York, while these tax cuts are clearly an

                 incentive for many in the city to do more

                 business, obviously it will also provide an

                 incentive for additional revenue for the city

                 in some shape or form.

                            What I do have to admonish, and I

                 have explained this to many of my colleagues

                 in the city as well, I do have to admonish my

                 City Council members.  Because at the same

                 time that they have voted for these tax cuts,

                 the problem that we have is at the same time

                 we have this issue of education.  And based on

                 these tax cuts, we're talking about almost

                 $3 billion within five years.

                            And the problem for us is that we

                 are now -- within this package, there is a tax

                 cut -- or not even the tax cut, but there is a

                 cut for the Board of Education somewhere to

                 the tune of $130 million, which actually works

                 out to about $5 million per district.





                                                          10151



                            So in retrospect, what it does for

                 us is we offer tax cuts of close to $3 billion

                 or $4 billion -- 200-and-some million one

                 year, 300 million the next year, 400-something

                 million the next year.  By 2005, $707 million.

                 But at the same time, we are cutting support

                 for our education.

                            We're going to look bad up here as

                 we run and appeal to the Governor not to

                 appeal the CFE decision but at the same time

                 our City Council members are cutting the Board

                 of Education down in the city.  I have to go

                 on the record as admonishing my City Council

                 members for not having the insight or at least

                 not conferring with us in the Legislature here

                 so that we wouldn't find ourselves in such a

                 position where we have to support a tax cut

                 but at the same time we've got to argue for

                 putting for more money in the Board of

                 Education.

                            I'm recorded in the positive on

                 this bill because I believe it is worthwhile

                 for us.  But I do want to be on the record as

                 telling our City Council members that there is

                 need for more communication on their part with





                                                          10152



                 us, as this does not put us in a good position

                 to negotiate more money for the Board of

                 Education with the state.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1209, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5042A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in

                 relation to providing.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, Senator Dollinger is in the Rules

                 Committee meeting.  Could we lay that aside

                 temporarily until he returns?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside temporarily, Senator.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1237, by Member of the Assembly Nolan,

                 Assembly Print Number 7458, an act to amend

                 the Labor Law, in relation to prevailing wage

                 supplements.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last





                                                          10153



                 section.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily, please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1252, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5271, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to school-zone speed limits.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect in one year.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1264, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5589,

                 an act in relation to state intervention.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, an explanation has been requested.





                                                          10154



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            The legislation would provide for a

                 state takeover and removal of the board of

                 education in an effort to improve the

                 education provided to the children in the

                 school district.  The Commissioner of

                 Education will assume all of the powers and

                 duties of the board of education until the

                 initial interim board of education is put in

                 place with the transition to the community.

                            Originally the Commissioner of

                 Education, in a proposal to the body, had

                 requested that there be five members of the

                 interim board, with the first being elected in

                 May of 2002.  We revised that legislation to

                 have it elected in May of 2003, with a quicker

                 turnaround to get the community more involved.

                            The interim board will be

                 responsible for the fiscal and educational

                 oversights, description of the measures to be

                 taken of the district to involve and obtain,

                 which is very important in this situation,

                 parental and community involvement.

                            This year an SED audit, which was





                                                          10155



                 issued on March 8th of 2001 -- and I'm just

                 going to brief it, the background about the

                 Roosevelt Union Free School District is

                 responsible for providing the educational

                 services to approximately 3,000 children in

                 the six schools.

                            Only 30 percent, 37 percent of the

                 district's students -- 91 students -- met the

                 state's standards for the Grade 4 English

                 Language Arts examination, compared to a

                 statewide average of close to 50 percent.

                 Only 3 percent of the district's students,

                 four, met the state's standards for the Grade

                 8 Mathematics examination, compared to a

                 statewide average of approximately 40 percent.

                 And only 3 percent of the district's students,

                 four students, graduated with a Regents

                 diploma, compared to a statewide average of

                 approximately 45 percent.

                            Below-average student performance

                 has been achieved even though the district

                 spends approximately $11,500 per student to

                 provide educational services.

                            Prior audits and reviews over the

                 past decade by the State Education Department





                                                          10156



                 and the Office of the State Comptroller, the

                 district's independent auditors, educational

                 consultants, and others have identified the

                 need for additional management controls and

                 improvement in district operations.

                            In July of '95, the State

                 Legislature required the district to develop a

                 corrective action plan to address student

                 achievement and performance, the maintenance

                 of school facilities, fiscal and

                 administrative practices, accountability, and

                 internal controls.  It also required the

                 establishment of a state review panel to

                 oversee the actions of the district and

                 implementing the goals of the corrective

                 action plan.  The department established the

                 Roosevelt Task Force in 1996 to help address

                 the district's needs for improvement.

                            However, despite these efforts,

                 improvements have been minimal at best.  In

                 November of 2000, the department's

                 commissioner provided the district with

                 specific student performance targets.  Failure

                 to meet these targets by June 30th of this

                 year will result in further action from the





                                                          10157



                 commissioner.

                            About a year ago -- actually, a

                 report was issued on March 13th of 2001, this

                 year.  Approximately a year ago, Dr. Shelley

                 Drazen -- which is commonly known now as the

                 Drazen report -- was selected through a

                 bidding process through the State Education

                 Department to evaluate the Roosevelt Union

                 Free School District for the past five years,

                 from 1995 to the year 2000.

                            There is an executive summary which

                 I am going to try to brief, just to provide

                 you with some more information to the ongoings

                 of what's happening in the district.  And this

                 is a brief of the executive summary of the

                 Drazen Report.

                            Throughout the district's history,

                 some of the board members have been viewed by

                 district staff and residents as trying to

                 further their political careers or enrich

                 themselves and their families through the

                 positions of the board.  After many years of

                 low levels of student achievement, the

                 district was first placed on the Schools Under

                 Registration Review -- SURR -- list in 1989.





                                                          10158



                            In May of '95, the legislative body

                 here passed Chapter 145 of the Laws of 1995,

                 after student achievement failed to improve

                 and visits by SED-appointed teams found

                 ill-maintained and potentially unsafe

                 facilities.  The legislation established

                 several means of effecting change in the

                 district.  First, several advisory and

                 governing groups to be appointed by the Board

                 of Regents were established.

                            A district review panel of three

                 and later five experts in education was set

                 up.  It was charged with developing a

                 corrective action plan, known as CAP, in

                 consultation with the community.  The panel

                 was to advise the Roosevelt Board of

                 Education's implementation of the plan and

                 monitor all the board's activities.  If the

                 board failed to fully implement the plan, the

                 legislation authorized the removal of the

                 school board and the panel would assume the

                 duties until the next general election.

                            Chapter 145 also created another

                 advisory group called the Citizens Advisory

                 Council, composed of 11 members from the





                                                          10159



                 Roosevelt community appointed by the Regents.

                 The legislation was later amended to add two

                 more members.

                            Chapter 121, also passed in 1996,

                 specified action relief to the district's

                 financial situation to allow the district to

                 sell serial bonds and receive $4 million in a

                 state advance which has yet to be repaid.

                            In view of nearly all sources

                 interviewed for the report, the legislation

                 was flawed in that it didn't specify clear and

                 separate roles and responsibilities for the

                 panel, the board, and the CAC, so control over

                 the educational decisions was diffusive,

                 leaving no one accountable for the results.

                            Although the intervention was aimed

                 at improving student achievement and improving

                 the facilities, no assessment need was

                 conducted in order to determine the underlying

                 cause of the problems.

                            The intervention was met with

                 hostility and resistance by many in the local

                 community, especially the board of education.

                 Most of the original panel members were

                 perceived as overly ambitious to further their





                                                          10160



                 own careers or financial situations through

                 their service.  Certain actions by the panel

                 members were viewed as particularly

                 objectionable and the appearance of conflict

                 was quite evident.

                            Most panel members have resigned

                 their positions within a year or two, voicing

                 frustration at their lack of authority over

                 board decisions and a lack of effect on the

                 educational process in the district.  Both

                 panel and board members complained that the

                 panel-board relationship had often been

                 problematic due to a lack of communication,

                 resentment, and personal conflicts.

                            The Citizens Action Committee was

                 also viewed with suspicion.  Its chair was

                 reportedly viewed as interested in only

                 furthering his own interests and his

                 associates' financial gains, and his apparent

                 hold over board members was also reported to

                 be a matter of concern by those who were

                 interviewed for the report.

                            The board of education at the time

                 of the intervention not only resisted the

                 intervention but it was also reported to have





                                                          10161



                 engaged in inappropriate and irresponsible

                 behavior in their management of the district.

                 An SED audit report in '94 and '95 cited

                 mismanagement of district funds, including

                 payment for personal expenses such as

                 limousines and flowers.  The audit report also

                 cited irregular procedures such as paying

                 employees not entitled to money, excessive

                 spending, and lack of financial controls,

                 leading to a deficit in the district funds.

                            The board was also found to have

                 failed to carry out a corrective action plan

                 and was removed in January of 1996, according

                 to the procedures established in Chapter 145

                 of the laws.

                            The panel then ran the district

                 until May of '96, when a new board was held to

                 assist daily operations.  The first panel

                 chair appointed an executive administrative

                 team.  The superintendent remained in his

                 position, but many of his roles were taken

                 over by the executive administrator, creating

                 an awkward situation.  The first executive

                 administrator left for a permanent position

                 elsewhere after only a few months.  The second





                                                          10162



                 administrator's tenure only lasted a few

                 months, after he found another job.

                            The panel also requested from SED

                 the creation of a task force composed of SED

                 experts in a particular subject or other

                 educational areas.  The task force was viewed

                 as a generally positive influence in the

                 district.  However, a continued lack of

                 administrative support and follow-through and

                 high rates of teacher turnover reportedly

                 prevented the task force from a substantial

                 impact on the educational process.

                            Between 1996 and the fall of 2000,

                 the board ran the district with an intimate

                 involvement by the panel and little or no

                 input from the Citizens Action Committee.

                 There were five superintendents or acting

                 superintendents during this time, two high

                 school principals, two middle school

                 principals, several treasurers and assistant

                 superintendents of curriculum, instruction,

                 and business.  Many questions were raised

                 about the qualifications or the job

                 performance of these individuals, particularly

                 regarding those hired by the board over SED





                                                          10163



                 and panel objections.

                            One superintendent, who had been

                 the first administrator, fired the high school

                 principal in January of '99, and the police

                 department had to be called to escort her out.

                 Superintendents and other administrators at

                 all levels reportedly became discouraged and

                 soon left the district.

                            The board elected in 1996, like the

                 earlier one, was removed, having been accused

                 of mismanaging funds, lack of attention to

                 educational issues, and micromanagement of the

                 district operations, and their actions have

                 been viewed as obstacles towards progress.

                            An audit report of 1999 and 2000

                 cited irregular procedures such as not using

                 competitive bidding when required by law,

                 hiring consultants without contracts,

                 inappropriate spending of grant money, and

                 hiring staff and consultants who were

                 unqualified for their position.

                            One board member was reported to

                 have called one administrator 28 times in a

                 single day and has reportedly used district

                 personnel to repair her car and perform other





                                                          10164



                 non-school-related duties.  She and two others

                 reportedly opposed most spending which would

                 benefit educational process in the district.

                            This impression was reportedly

                 heightened when one of the board members of

                 the board of directors joined a charter school

                 which was recently enacted in the Roosevelt

                 School District, thereby draining much-needed

                 funds to the school district of approximately

                 $1.8 million.

                            There were also some questions

                 about some of the newer board members.  One

                 currently has a pending lawsuit against the

                 district after he was not hired for a job he

                 applied for.

                            High levels of turnover in teaching

                 and administrative staff were also attributed

                 to a chronic lack of money for salaries as

                 well as reported inappropriate actions by

                 board members.  Many of those interviewed for

                 the Drazen report reported that unfavorable

                 information about the intervention was kept

                 from the Board of Regents and the

                 Commissioner.

                            Voters have defeated the budget,





                                                          10165



                 leading to austerity budgets, in four of the

                 last six years of the intervention.  The

                 recent opening of the Roosevelt Charter School

                 has further left a strain on the school by

                 draining more than $1.8 million from it.

                            District achievement through all of

                 this has improved somewhat in certain areas.

                 Early elementary achievement in math and

                 reading has been near-average level for the

                 state and continues to be near the state

                 average.  There are now more students taking

                 the Regents course and taking and passing

                 certain Regents examinations such as English,

                 math, and social studies.

                            However, very low achievement

                 continues on Regents examinations in science

                 and foreign language and on the junior high

                 school level.

                            Most of the areas of improvement

                 continue to experience academic levels far

                 below those of other state districts.  Very

                 few students receive Regents diplomas, as the

                 percentage of students taking and passing

                 sufficient numbers of Regents examinations and

                 taking Regents courses remains far below other





                                                          10166



                 districts in the state.

                            The district now has a new

                 superintendent that came from Yonkers that has

                 been there approximately one year.  He has

                 initiated a series of meetings of community

                 forums which have been met with a tremendous

                 amount of success.  Approximately 80 people

                 from the community are now attending his

                 meetings.

                            However, the fear of further

                 instability reportedly remains.  The intensive

                 media coverage of this school district has

                 caused significant problems.  Many teachers

                 have left and have sought outside employment.

                            The Drazen Report makes certain

                 recommendations.  One is to increase state

                 funding for the district operations, which is

                 provided under this legislation in the form of

                 a grant.  The second recommendation is the

                 charter of the Roosevelt School District

                 should not be renewed after its five-year

                 period.  The third recommendation, in order to

                 ensure that additional state aid will not be

                 misspent, removal of the current board is

                 recommended.  Mismanagement of money,





                                                          10167



                 micromanagement by the board of education

                 remains to be a serious problem in the

                 district.  Three to five years should elapse

                 before the replacement of the board with all

                 its powers in order to allow time for change

                 to occur.

                            The Commissioner should appoint an

                 administrator experienced in improving failed

                 schools to run this district or who has shown

                 promise in the position to carry out a

                 corrective action plan.  The current

                 superintendent and his team, including the

                 assistant superintendents of business and

                 curriculum and instruction, are likely

                 candidates, given their success in managing

                 the district finances and operations over a

                 short period of time.

                            The board could be reconstructed

                 several years later.  It might be more

                 effective to have only one or two board

                 members transitioned on the team.  A panel

                 model is not recommended, as it has been in

                 the past.

                            A campaign to raise community

                 support and interest in the district is also





                                                          10168



                 recommended.  A thorough needs assessment

                 should be done, which is ongoing right now by

                 the new superintendent.  A comprehensive and

                 adequate attendance and discipline policy is

                 badly needed.  More attention to the

                 curricular issues is warranted.  Quality of

                 instructional leadership, teaching and

                 learning is also required for improvement.

                 Accountability at all levels of intervention

                 should be assured.  Guidance and placement of

                 needs should also be considered.

                            The Roosevelt School District is

                 probably one of the most problematic and

                 troubled school districts in this state.  I've

                 spent a lot of time in the community meeting

                 with the clergy, the NAACP, parents, and just

                 last week, as I have been doing throughout my

                 term, in speaking at the classes there.  The

                 parents tell me they want the state to take

                 over the school.

                            One focus has been lost with the

                 almost 3,000 kids there.  It's educating the

                 children.  My sole purpose for this

                 legislation -- and Earlene Hooper in the

                 Assembly is considering it as well -- is to





                                                          10169



                 get back to the fundamental rights that these

                 kids have, and that's having a quality

                 education throughout their tenure for school.

                            Thank you.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Madam President, if Senator

                 Fuschillo would yield for a question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, will you yield?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you.

                            Senator, I read in the bill it

                 says -- in Section 5 it amends Section 11,

                 subdivision 11, and in Part B it says:  "To

                 the Roosevelt Union Free School District there

                 shall be paid $4 million."

                            My question, Senator, is this an

                 appropriation to the Roosevelt Union District?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No.  No, it

                 isn't, Senator.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    So that by





                                                          10170



                 virtue of this bill they're not getting

                 $4 million; is that correct?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    That's

                 correct, Senator.  It's just setting up the

                 method for a grant process.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    And, Madam

                 President, if the Senator would continue to

                 yield for a question.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Fuschillo

                 does yield.

                            You may proceed, Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    So is it fair to

                 say, then, Madam President, if Senator

                 Fuschillo would comment, is it fair to say

                 that his bill would provide that the State

                 Education Department takes over the Roosevelt

                 School District but it does not ensure that

                 they give any money to that district?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    As of now,

                 yes, Senator.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you.

                            On the bill, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed





                                                          10171



                 on the bill, Senator Connor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    I certainly am

                 aware of the problems that the Roosevelt

                 School District has had.  Clearly it has had

                 management problems.

                            It's not the only school district

                 in the state that's had management problems.

                 We have a long tradition, as old as this state

                 has provided for public education, of local

                 control of public education.  And that in fact

                 means very often well-meaning people -

                 occasionally, regrettably, in a lot of school

                 districts, sometimes not-so-well-meaning

                 people -- run for school board and get

                 elected.

                            I in my experience have seen people

                 who were really concerned about the schools,

                 many times parents, get on school boards and

                 suddenly realize they have to deal with the

                 budget, for example.  And in their trade or

                 enterprise or professions outside of this

                 part-time office of school board member,

                 they've never had to deal with a budget

                 before.  They either fall under the sway of a

                 superintendent -- sometimes that's good, and





                                                          10172



                 sometimes it's bad.  But they're not equipped,

                 they're not equipped with the kind of skills

                 or background to deal with the management

                 questions that a school board has to deal

                 with.

                            In fact, I believe, Madam

                 President, that Senator Stavisky has had a

                 bill to actually provide for a state program

                 to give rather intensive training and advice

                 and counsel to school board members in some of

                 the intricacies of managing a district.

                            Probably about 12 years ago, in a

                 task force of the Democratic Conference headed

                 or cochaired by the late Senator Joseph

                 Galiber -- I'm not sure, I think Senator Perry

                 was the other cochair -- an extensive study of

                 Long Island school districts was done.  And

                 the conclusion was -- and anybody familiar

                 with Long Island knows there are many, many,

                 many school districts.

                            The conclusion of it was there were

                 too many school districts.  There are school

                 districts on Long Island that have as few as

                 seven or eight schools in them, yet they have

                 to maintain the overhead of a superintendent





                                                          10173



                 and a whole bureaucracy to run a school

                 district, at great expense, for really a few

                 schools.

                            So I suggest that what has gone on

                 in Roosevelt exemplifies what can happen with

                 a small school district that's underfunded.

                 Because the fact is that school district has

                 virtually no commercial property tax base.

                 The per-pupil property tax valuation in

                 Roosevelt is $116,000.  That's the valuation

                 per pupil.  It's the lowest in Nassau County,

                 and it compares with, for example -- I'll pick

                 a few others.  The number for the Baldwin

                 School District is $293,000.  For Bellmore,

                 it's 370,000.  Bethpage, 468,000.  Carle

                 Place, 599,000 in valuation per pupil.  And on

                 and on and on.

                            Great Neck, $904,000 per pupil in a

                 property tax base.  Herricks, 467,000.

                 Hicksville, 544,000.  Island Park, 815,000.

                 And on and on and on, school district after

                 school district where the per-pupil tax base

                 is -- Oyster Bay, 990,000, for example -- is

                 six, seven, eight hundred thousand.  In some

                 of the poorer districts in Nassau, nonetheless





                                                          10174



                 it's $350,000 a pupil, $300,000 a pupil.  Here

                 is Roosevelt, per-pupil property tax base,

                 $116,000 in valuation.

                            Leaving aside all the other

                 problems, is it any wonder that year after

                 year after year, for a couple of decades, that

                 the Roosevelt School District has these

                 problems, that it can't educate its students?

                 It's a built-in formula for failure, Madam

                 President.

                            And the inequities, the inequities

                 in a school funding system relying on a local

                 property tax base are proven by these numbers.

                 Of course a district with a million dollars

                 per pupil in valuation or $400,000 or $500,000

                 per pupil in valuation is going to provide a

                 whole different level of support for public

                 education than one that has a mere $116,000.

                            So I suggest, Madam President,

                 there may have been management problems, but a

                 state takeover isn't the answer here

                 necessarily.  I am very loath to supplant

                 local control.  Yes, oversight boards,

                 perhaps.  Other measures short of a total

                 displacement of a local school board I could





                                                          10175



                 support.

                            But really what we're looking at

                 here is something that this Legislature has

                 not come to grips with yet this year, and

                 that's the implications of the court decision

                 in the Fiscal Equity case.  Which, as we know,

                 apply to New York City, but now there are

                 pending cases and motions to join other

                 districts around the state.  Because the

                 problem isn't just New York City, it involves

                 urban areas, it involves a lot of rural school

                 districts that have special needs yet they

                 don't have the local tax base to meet it.

                            And remember, that case was based

                 on the New York State Constitution that

                 guaranteed our children an adequate public

                 education.  And it found that the effort being

                 made did not result in students who were

                 educated to meet the minimum standards to

                 serve on a jury or be a voter.

                            I.e., if we don't fulfill that

                 obligation, we've failed to sustain our

                 democracy.  Because we need our citizens to

                 have the level of education to at least

                 participate in the process as voters, as





                                                          10176



                 jurors, and otherwise take part in civic

                 involvement, as well as, of course, to engage

                 in gainful economic activity to support their

                 families and their communities.

                            We have to deal with the education

                 aid.  We have to do that in the budget.  We

                 haven't done that yet.  As Senator Fuschillo

                 points out, while the language says the

                 Roosevelt district gets $4 million, we can't

                 appropriate $4 million to Roosevelt here

                 today.  The State Constitution says we cannot

                 appropriate any money until we've passed the

                 budget, unless the Governor provides us with a

                 notice of appropriation, a message of

                 appropriation.  And there is none attached to

                 this bill.

                            So this bill would supplant the

                 local school board, provide no money -

                 because when we get around to doing a budget,

                 if the school aid formula doesn't -- well,

                 let's not call it a formula, if the school aid

                 deal doesn't result in more money going to

                 Roosevelt -- because as we all know, Madam

                 President, the formula was all myth, driven by

                 dollars.





                                                          10177



                            But I respectfully submit this is

                 the wrong way to go.  Roosevelt may be the

                 worst-performing district in New York State,

                 but there are others that could give it some

                 real competition.  And when you look at these

                 funding factors -- and I'm not suggesting just

                 throwing money is the answer always.  But

                 these are rather stark.

                            How, when it has one-eighth or

                 one-ninth of the tax base of surrounding

                 school districts, can we think that this

                 district would perform the way -- and this is

                 a district in the suburbs, and that's the real

                 gravamen of the Fiscal Equity decision.

                            It's not just about New York City,

                 it's about urban, rural, and suburban areas

                 that find, for a variety of reasons, they

                 can't sustain a quality school system that

                 produces quality education for its students,

                 because of accidents of history.  They don't

                 have the property tax base that other areas

                 do.

                            And that's really something we as a

                 State Legislature have to address.  And we

                 have to address it on a bigger scale, a





                                                          10178



                 statewide scale.  This conference proposed an

                 amendment to the Majority's budget resolution

                 that tried to address the needs of those

                 underserved districts.  And we had a little

                 color map there.

                            And it's not just in New York City,

                 it's not just in the big cities, it's -- these

                 districts that are underfunded are spread

                 throughout the state.  Indeed, a large number

                 of them are in rural areas that a lot of the

                 members of the Majority represent.

                            So I appreciate Senator Fuschillo's

                 desire to address the problem of Roosevelt,

                 but at this time I'm not prepared to vote for

                 this kind of takeover.  Particularly when his

                 bill can't even guarantee another nickel to

                 that school district.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senators wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, this bill is an echo for me.  On

                 June 29, 1995, I had about a twenty-minute

                 debate with Senator Fuschillo's predecessor,

                 my good friend Norman Levy, and he and I





                                                          10179



                 talked about the implications of a bill that

                 he was carrying at that time to do much the

                 same thing that this bill does, to allow the

                 Commissioner of Education, in the unique

                 circumstances of the Roosevelt School

                 District, to take the district over and run it

                 as a State of New York project.

                            And I've thought long and hard

                 about this bill today, and there are two

                 things that strike me about it which I think

                 are consistent with what I talked about in

                 1995.

                            And that is, there's one line in

                 this bill on page 2, line 53, that says it all

                 for me when it makes a reference to "the

                 qualified voters of the Roosevelt Union Free

                 School District."  And what this bill seeks to

                 do is to tell the qualified voters of the

                 Roosevelt Union Free School District that

                 they're wrong, that they've been wrong, and

                 that they haven't done their job in voting.

                            I would suggest that it is

                 unprecedented for this state to sit down and

                 say to any group of voters anywhere:  We're

                 going to take away your power to elect the





                                                          10180



                 people that will decide educational policy in

                 your community.

                            We are taking away the power of

                 people to vote for their school board.  Just

                 so everybody hears that clearly, we are taking

                 away the power of people to vote for their

                 school board.  This is unprecedented.  This is

                 something that doesn't happen in New York

                 State.  And to the best of my knowledge, I

                 don't know that it's happened in the United

                 States of America.

                            We're telling them that we're going

                 to take over the school district and we, the

                 State of New York, even through the beneficial

                 work of Richard Mills, despite the best of

                 intentions, we're taking away your power to

                 vote for who you want on your school board.

                            I cannot countenance that.  I

                 understand that there are terrible problems in

                 Roosevelt.  But I'll just read what I told

                 Senator Levy in 1995.  This is a quote from

                 the debate of that day.

                            "What we're doing is we're saying

                 we've got a way to change Roosevelt, and the

                 change is going to come from the top down.





                                                          10181



                 The long-term change for this school district,

                 as I believe it is for every school district

                 in this state, to improve the quality of

                 education, is to have the parents in the

                 community stand up and say, 'We don't need the

                 Commissioner of Education to tell us to do

                 this, we don't need anyone at the top to

                 assist us in doing this.  We can empower

                 ourselves to do it.  We can demand the change.

                 We can demand that our children get educated.'

                            "Until that happens, we won't have

                 fundamental growth in education, and at

                 least -- and it is unfortunate, but at least

                 in my judgment, based on what I have heard in

                 the room today" -- that was in June of 1995,

                 and I haven't heard anything different

                 today -- "we will not have this change unless

                 the people in this school district stand up

                 and say:  We want more accountability, we want

                 a better school district, we want better

                 education.

                            "No matter what we do today" -

                 back in 1995, no matter what we do today in

                 2001, "we will not really change the quality

                 of education in Roosevelt."





                                                          10182



                            I said to Senator Levy, "This is an

                 issue which for me is a very close one and a

                 very difficult one, but I believe we send the

                 wrong message throughout this state if we try

                 to impose a solution from the top down rather

                 than let it percolate up from the bottom

                 through empowered parents who want to make

                 necessary changes."

                            Senator Fuschillo, I understand

                 your advocacy for this community.  I

                 appreciate it.  But it seems to me that based

                 on what I've heard, to take away the power of

                 the people to change it themselves, to

                 acknowledge that the community has failed and

                 that we cannot rally them to bring about the

                 necessary changes is an admission that I am

                 unprepared to make.

                            I think this bill creates an

                 enormous and dangerous precedent for our

                 state.  I have favored and supported the

                 Commissioner's efforts to go in and deal with

                 the SURR list, to provide additional

                 resources, to require remediation plans in

                 schools that are troubled, in school districts

                 that are in trouble in our state.  But





                                                          10183



                 imposing a solution from Albany, when what

                 we're doing is telling the school district

                 that you have failed and you can never change

                 it, is the wrong message to be sent in

                 education.

                            I voted against this concept in

                 1995.  I was the only member of the Senate to

                 do so.  I still believe, as I did then, that

                 the solution lies with empowering a community

                 and not taking away its fundamental power to

                 vote for people of their own choosing.  I

                 believe that that is the most sacred power we

                 give to everyone in this state, and especially

                 to parents to demand quality education.  This

                 bill takes it away.

                            And I believed in 1995 it was

                 wrong, I believe it is wrong today, and I

                 believe it sends the wrong message to

                 Roosevelt and to everyone else in this state

                 about the importance of local control of

                 school districts.  I voted no then, Madam

                 President.  I will vote no again in 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,





                                                          10184



                 Madam President.

                            I was here when that debate took

                 place.  I sat there and I watched and I

                 listened to my colleague and good friend

                 Norman Levy stand up and explain his reasons

                 why he felt that he had to take a very drastic

                 step, and that is to bring state aid and the

                 State Education Department into the Roosevelt

                 School District.

                            The reason why there wasn't a

                 complete and total takeover then was because

                 Norman believed, and we all hoped, that it

                 could be done without the drastic and

                 draconian methods that have to be taken at

                 this point in time.

                            The system has failed, my

                 colleagues.  The system is broken in

                 Roosevelt.  The schools had to be closed down

                 days ahead of time because the kids in the

                 schools could not be controlled by the staff.

                 Assaults, fights.  Mayhem ruled.  Not the

                 authority, mayhem.

                            I suggest to you the parents of

                 this district have voted, Senator.  They have

                 voted.  They've been rejecting school budget





                                                          10185



                 after school budget.  Not because they don't

                 want to fund their schools, not because

                 they're bad parents.  That was the only means

                 they could voice.  The system has been taken

                 over in Roosevelt by a small group who for

                 their own self-interest or political

                 advantages have been using the system for

                 their own gain and not for the kids.

                            The kids have suffered.  The kids

                 have gotten a mediocre and poor education at

                 best.  Is there a capability to educate in

                 that system?  Absolutely.  It was proven by

                 some of the statistics read by Senator

                 Fuschillo earlier.  There have been some

                 marked improvements in the lower levels.  But

                 in the upper grades and in the high school and

                 in the middle schools, nowhere.  No good

                 improvement.  Parent after parent has been

                 saying, Help us, help us.  We can't do it

                 alone.  We need your help and need your

                 assistance.

                            I commend Senator Fuschillo for

                 taking this step, as I commended Senator Levy

                 back then.  As a teacher and a former

                 educator, I know what makes a school work.  I





                                                          10186



                 was a school board member.  I know what it

                 takes to work on school boards and to make the

                 system operate and to make it work.  It's

                 hard.  It's not easy.

                            But when you don't have support and

                 you have a group out there that is actively

                 working in opposition for their own gain and

                 they're well-organized and well-funded and

                 they are working in opposition to everything

                 that has been tried -- they wanted a disaster

                 and, ladies and gentlemen, they got it.  It's

                 an educational horror in Roosevelt.

                            If you are a parent living in that

                 community sending your kids to those schools,

                 you fear, you fear every day that those young

                 people are going to be hurt.  You don't know

                 if you send them that they're going to come

                 home in one piece.  It is a crime to do that.

                 It is a crime to consider that we cannot and

                 we should just leave it alone.

                            The comments I heard from my

                 colleagues, I respect them.  I don't want to

                 take anybody's right to vote for any system.

                 I think that is a last resort.  We're there.

                 We're at a last resort.  Senator, if we just





                                                          10187



                 let it go the way it is now, more young people

                 will not get the education they have a right

                 to have and that they deserve and that we have

                 an obligation to provide.

                            We have a constitutional obligation

                 to provide quality education to every child in

                 New York State and every child in every

                 district.  Roosevelt, last time I looked, was

                 in New York State.

                            I think we have to support this

                 legislation.  I know Senator Fuschillo doesn't

                 put it up here easily.  I know this is not

                 what he would like to do.  He would prefer, as

                 we all would, that the system work to help

                 itself.  The system cannot.  The people over

                 there need our assistance.  They're asking for

                 it.  They're begging for it.

                            If we turn a blind eye to them now,

                 we do not assist.  We do not help.  And I

                 state, ladies and gentlemen, we would be in

                 dereliction of our constitutional duty.  More

                 important, we would be telling young people

                 that you are condemned to a less-than-adequate

                 education because we will not help you.

                            I urge my colleagues to vote





                                                          10188



                 unanimously for this bill, because it sends a

                 strong message that the State of New York

                 supports quality education everywhere,

                 everywhere, and will not tolerate those, will

                 not tolerate those who would do anything or do

                 things to disrupt it and to disturb and to

                 prevent it from occurring.

                            I urge a yes vote, ladies and

                 gentlemen.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, I rise in support of Senator

                 Fuschillo's effort to bring stability to the

                 school district.

                            What the irony is about this bill

                 is that this will continue the educational

                 process in Roosevelt.  Now, why is that

                 ironic?  Because as we stand here today, we

                 are talking about the amount of money that we

                 have given to the school district and how they

                 should have the right to their own destiny.

                            Ladies and gentlemen, the stories

                 of this chapter have been written for years

                 and years.  This is about the sixth or seventh





                                                          10189



                 time that this question has been put before

                 this Legislature.  And the question becomes,

                 for all of us, do we engage in a process where

                 we try to come in through this piece of

                 legislation and provide guidance with a firm

                 hand or no guidance at all?  Do we relegate

                 these students and families to a dysfunctional

                 system, or do we try to continue to come in

                 and provide relief that is extraordinary but

                 it is extraordinary circumstances in this

                 community?

                            Senator Connor read the amount of

                 money that the different school districts have

                 around it.  And then he said, But we can't fix

                 that with the school aid formula.  And perhaps

                 he's right.  But what he's not taking into

                 account is if you go back to the budgets and

                 you take a look at Senator Norman Levy's

                 efforts and Senator Fuschillo's efforts, you

                 will see, year after year, whether it is

                 bullet aid or extraordinary grants of aid,

                 millions and millions of dollars on top of the

                 school aid formula, recognizing that one size

                 does not fit all, in an attempt to smooth over

                 the inequities with the surrounding school





                                                          10190



                 districts, aid that the other districts have

                 not received but Roosevelt has.

                            But notwithstanding that infusion

                 of money, it is still a system that is not

                 working, that has not worked for many, many

                 years.  All of us around this community hope

                 that the next step we take will be the one

                 that shakes this system and says here's the

                 road we should follow.  Because in truth, as

                 much as we may want to control the outcome -

                 that is, that students are not left behind,

                 they receive an education, graduate and have

                 productive lives -- we realize that our own

                 inabilities will leave us only to relegate

                 ourselves to a small portion of their lives.

                 It is always going to be up to their parents,

                 to their community.  That's the people -- that

                 is the group of individuals we have to entrust

                 the ultimate result that we all want.

                            This is not an easy bill.  This is

                 not an easy approach.  But it is a bold

                 approach, and it is taking a step.  When, in

                 this state right now, everyone is folding

                 their arms and not moving on so many other

                 issues, Senator Fuschillo is standing up and





                                                          10191



                 saying, I'm going to put my name behind a

                 process that at least will be able to move

                 towards making this a better situation.

                            I would really ask all of you to

                 take a look at this through a unique

                 perspective.  And as much as other people have

                 said there are other districts that are

                 challenged, I respectfully disagree.  This is

                 really unique.  Please give your thoughts to

                 supporting this.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.  On the bill.

                            I don't live in Roosevelt.  And I

                 have attempted, as I've sat here, to not make

                 judgments about or try to second-guess the

                 people who do live in those districts.

                            But it's very interesting that I

                 heard in this chambers today exactly the same

                 message that I heard in the city of Mount

                 Vernon about Mount Vernon five years ago, that

                 Mount Vernon children could not learn and that

                 the state should take over the Mount Vernon

                 school district.





                                                          10192



                            But those of you who may have read

                 the papers, the New York Times, two weeks ago

                 may have read the monumental turnaround in

                 reading scores and learning scores of the

                 children in the city of Mount Vernon.  The

                 state did not do that.  The people of Mount

                 Vernon did.  There was a recommitment by the

                 Board of Regents.

                            There's a T-shirt that I had

                 intended to wear today.  I didn't want to

                 break dress code, so I did not wear it, but I

                 should have.  Because what that T-shirt

                 represents is a world-class group of students,

                 through the aid of government, students on top

                 and in the lower level, it showed government,

                 parents and administrators, supported by

                 children, going in both directions, we were

                 able to turn our school district around.

                            Last Saturday we gave 160 bicycles

                 to children in the school district who read

                 more than fifty books.  We gave special prizes

                 to those who read 80 books.  The state

                 standard was 25.  And they said that the city

                 of Mount Vernon should be exempt from the

                 standard, because those children cannot learn.





                                                          10193



                 The board, the community, and the city is not

                 committed to making those children learn.

                            Well, I want to tell you that we

                 have three banners that hang on three of our

                 elementary schools that shows an increase in

                 90 percent of the reading and learning scores

                 of those students.  And one of the

                 lowest-achieving schools in the state, which

                 was the Williams School, a feeder school for

                 shelters, increased their reading scores by

                 53 percent.

                            Now, these are not things that I

                 made up in my head.  These are things -- this

                 is information that you can read.  I know that

                 it took us a very long time.  We lost a

                 generation of children while we waited to turn

                 our district around.  But three years ago, we

                 fired our board of education, every trustee.

                 We fired our superintendent.  And we gave the

                 power to change those things that needed to be

                 changed.

                            And believe me, if any of you have

                 been following this school district, you know

                 that we have fought tooth and nail.  And even

                 the people who were in support of us in the





                                                          10194



                 beginning turned on us halfway through the

                 process, because some of the changes that they

                 made were very difficult for them to abide by.

                 It meant moving teachers and people that a lot

                 of people felt a great deal about, including

                 myself.

                            But we gave the power to make that

                 change to the superintendent and to the board,

                 and we got out of their way and allowed them

                 to make the changes that they need to change.

                            I had the opportunity to talk with

                 many of the members who came up to visit from

                 Roosevelt the other day.  And I happened -

                 there were three people in the group who knew

                 me from Mount Vernon.  One of them used to be

                 the band leader, Mr. Abel, from our school

                 district.  And he recognized me, and we

                 started a conversation.  And I asked why they

                 were there.

                            We talked about the need to talk

                 with Senator Fuschillo, and I was disappointed

                 that they did not take advantage of the

                 opportunity to share with him some of the

                 concerns that they had.

                            Because a part of what I think





                                                          10195



                 needed to happen is that rather than have the

                 state commissioner take over the school

                 district, we may need to have an oversight

                 committee to monitor that school district and

                 put them on a very short leash.

                            But we need to allow that school

                 district to make the determination for its

                 children, with the appropriate and proper

                 help.  And we do not need to be the Mounties

                 who ride in and think that we know better than

                 they about what they need to do with their

                 school district.

                            I will probably not be popular for

                 voting no on this measure, but I have a belief

                 in the people in Roosevelt in very much the

                 manner that I do in the people in Mount

                 Vernon.  Because people, given the right

                 opportunities, the right wherewithal and

                 direction, can change their destiny.  But

                 other people have to get out of the way to

                 allow that to happen.

                            I will vote no on this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Malcolm Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Thank you





                                                          10196



                 very much, Madam President.

                            I know this is a tough bill.  It's

                 a tough bill for Senator Fuschillo.  It's a

                 tough bill as I heard my colleague Senator

                 Dollinger talk about local takeover and taking

                 the responsibility away from individuals that

                 have the right to select who is going to

                 determine what happens in their communities.

                            However, you know, there are ten

                 two-letter words in the dictionary that I kind

                 of took my own personal oath for, and they're

                 very powerful ten two-letter words.  And the

                 phrase simply says, "if it is to be, it is up

                 to me."  Ten words, two letters each.  If it

                 is to be, it is up to me.

                            And it is clear to me that if I am

                 going to have any impact whatsoever on the

                 children of this state -- and I took a

                 personal oath to make sure that that would

                 happen -- we've got to make some very, very

                 hard decisions.

                            There's no doubt in my mind we

                 know, we all feel, and we all want the

                 Governor not to appeal the CFE decision.

                 Clearly, doing one piecemeal project at a time





                                                          10197



                 is not the way to go.  There's no doubt about

                 it, there are districts in Buffalo, Rochester,

                 New York City, high-need districts.  Everybody

                 needs their fair share to better educate our

                 children.

                            However, the problem that exists in

                 the Roosevelt district is a unique problem.  I

                 personally have had parents come to me crying,

                 saying to me, "I am not going to send my child

                 to school in that district.  I'm going to keep

                 them at home."

                            And I respect what Ruth

                 Hassell-Thompson said.  However, there has

                 been a series, just as Senator Marcellino

                 said, of solutions that have tried to be

                 employed to fix this system.  In '95, there

                 was a corrective measure, did not work.  '96,

                 there was the task force.  But the bottom line

                 is, nothing happened.  Nothing happened.

                            We need to understand, there is a

                 clear nexus with education and the bill we

                 just passed, GE-NY-SIS.  If we don't educate

                 our kids, who is going to be dealing with the

                 GE-NY-SIS of the year 2003?

                            There is a clear nexus between





                                                          10198



                 education and the tax base.  If the kids

                 aren't educated, who is going to be supporting

                 that tax base?

                            There is a clear nexus between our

                 children and Social Security.  If we don't

                 educate them, who is going to be supporting

                 that bailiwick of money to support us as we

                 grow older?

                            There is a clear nexus between the

                 State of New York maintaining its stature as a

                 state in a global market.  However, if we

                 don't educate our children, all is lost.

                            It is clear to everybody, $30,000,

                 $40,000 to incarcerate, $18,000 to educate.

                 There is a system that we are not working

                 fairly with and not doing the right thing.

                            This is not an easy bill, there is

                 no question about it.  But the bottom line is

                 this Roosevelt system is just not working.  We

                 have to take some drastic measures.  Drastic

                 measures have to be taken for that district to

                 send out a message that we are not going to

                 tolerate not educating our kids anymore.

                            I understand what the problem is.

                 There's politics, there's public interest,





                                                          10199



                 there's unions.  Sure, Malcolm, you just said

                 some of the words that you shouldn't say.  You

                 may not be here a year from now.  But the

                 bottom line is, we got to get to that point

                 someday where we take all of that out.

                            We have took an oath as public

                 stewards to stand up for what is simply right.

                 And the bottom line right now is the kids in

                 this particular state.  This is the number-one

                 issue in the state of New York, educating our

                 children.  If we do not educate our children,

                 all of this will fail.

                            Senator Fuschillo, you have taken

                 the hard line, there is no question about it.

                 But this is the right thing to do.  And I'm

                 telling all of my colleagues here as well, you

                 have to search your heart.  Search your heart.

                 If you believe in your heart that what Senator

                 Fuschillo is doing is passing this bill to

                 hurt or to kill our children off, then don't

                 vote for it.  If you believe in your heart

                 what he is actually standing here as a Senator

                 taking an oath to correct this measure is to

                 hurt our children, then don't vote for this

                 bill.





                                                          10200



                            The bottom line is, this is a

                 message that has to be sent and it has to be

                 sent today.  I'm voting yes, and I'm asking

                 everyone else to take that same stand, because

                 this is the day that we have to take a stand.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I have the highest respect for

                 those who are voting for this bill, for a

                 little different reason, perhaps, than some of

                 us who may vote against it.

                            I advocated for this.  From the

                 time I got to the Senate in 1986, it was my

                 opinion that when the dropout rate exceeded

                 30 percent in any district, it was almost a

                 valid indicator of the mismanagement of the

                 district.  And I wanted those districts taken

                 over by the state.  And I said it just about

                 every place that I went.  It was almost like a

                 mantra with me.  I don't even think I thought

                 about what the reality of that transference

                 would actually mean.

                            The statements that Senator Malcolm

                 Smith and Senator Marcellino made are





                                                          10201



                 absolutely right.  This is a school district

                 that's under siege.  This is a situation that

                 has been brought on by some mismanagement, as

                 Senator Connor pointed out, and a situation

                 that does relate very much to the funding and

                 also a lot of problems when a district starts

                 to falter.

                            One of the reasons that the

                 students in Roosevelt couldn't pass the

                 Regents is in many instances they didn't have

                 teachers, particularly in the foreign

                 languages, that would even teach in that

                 particular area.  So it wasn't that the

                 students couldn't always pass the Regents,

                 they couldn't take the Regents.  They didn't

                 have the resources.

                            Because of that, I tried to look at

                 alternative forms of education.  And one thing

                 that Senator Marcellino pointed out I think is

                 exactly right.  And it just amazes me the

                 comfort zone that people have with failure.  A

                 school district is lowering its standards and

                 its expectations of itself into the abyss, and

                 when somebody comes along and suggests a

                 different way to change it, people fight





                                                          10202



                 harder to resist the change than they would

                 have to try to improve the educational system

                 in the first place.

                            I saw that happen in New York City

                 when there was a proposal for some alternative

                 ways of running some schools by, in a sense,

                 farming them out to a private company.  I

                 don't know if this was the best idea.  I don't

                 know if the company's record was particularly

                 stellar in some of its other ventures around

                 the country.  But I know this.  People that

                 never even stopped to think about the issue

                 were carrying on around a school in my

                 particular district, P.S. 161, and ever since

                 they defeated the idea, they haven't been seen

                 since.  They haven't been seen in the vicinity

                 of that district, and won't be.

                            But if someone tries to come along

                 and bring an idea, there is certainly a

                 resistance to it that absolutely amazes me.

                            I think that the intentions of

                 Senator Marcellino and the sponsor of the

                 bill, Senator Fuschillo, and the person who

                 originally sponsored the bill, Senator Levy,

                 God rest his soul, were certainly the best of





                                                          10203



                 intentions.  But what I could hear even in the

                 conversation today is how distant we have

                 become from the district and the people who

                 live there, how the blame is being cast on

                 individuals who are reacting to situations.

                            And now we've got scenarios where

                 people were invited to come and talk to

                 Senator Fuschillo, who is a very reasonable

                 person, and they didn't do it.  And at the

                 same time, there's a castigation of some

                 people who live and work in that district who

                 oppose this, and they oppose it for valid

                 reasons.  And what we're really doing is

                 casting aspersions on each other rather than

                 really trying to solve the problem.

                            In the end, I think there's more

                 that can actually be done.  I think that we

                 really owe a debt of gratitude to Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson, who explained how in the

                 district that she lives and now represents,

                 how they were able to do that in Mount Vernon,

                 in that Williams School, where they raised the

                 performance of the students by 53 percent.

                            In the end, I think that we have to

                 understand, living in a democracy, that it





                                                          10204



                 would be easy to do what the American

                 government did in Grenada, do what the Soviet

                 government did in Afghanistan.  It's maybe

                 sincerely thinking that things aren't the way

                 they should be and going in and trying to

                 change them.

                            But in the end, what sets us apart,

                 or what should set us apart as this democracy,

                 is that we don't do that.  We respect the fact

                 that an election was held, a school board was

                 elected.  If we have rules about people who

                 are elected to the school board while they're

                 engaging in lawsuits against the district,

                 then we should enforce those rules and maybe

                 not allow the person to sit.

                            However, when we do hold an

                 election, it has to mean something.  If it

                 doesn't mean anything, we're beginning to lose

                 something, a little compromise, that in the

                 end will take us all down.  And that

                 compromise is the value that we place on our

                 electoral system.

                            I think that there are drastic

                 changes -- we might even have to privatize the

                 whole school district in Roosevelt.  But we





                                                          10205



                 cannot set aside the will of the people when

                 it comes to the school board in terms of the

                 management of that school.  I think it's not a

                 utopian concept, I think it's the one that we

                 have to believe in or we're losing our value

                 as the society that we purport ourselves to

                 be.

                            So I'm going to vote no, Madam

                 President, with absolutely no malice or

                 negative feeling toward the people who are

                 voting yes, because I not only understand that

                 point of view, I have held that point of view.

                 It's just that when we actually finally did

                 it -- and I voted for the bill in 1995, and I

                 saw what we did.  I guess I would certainly

                 invoke the right to be educated in public as

                 an elected official, and I think that that was

                 the wrong way to go.  I think that there are

                 actually some drastic measures we can take in

                 that district, similar to what Senator Malcolm

                 Smith was proposing, without setting aside the

                 will of the people.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I don't





                                                          10206



                 want to belabor some of the points made,

                 because I concur and I see both sides of this

                 issue.

                            Certain salient points are

                 influencing my decision to vote no.  One is

                 I'm very close to school boards, having been

                 on them.  And I feel that a school board is

                 elected, it is the will of the people of that

                 community.  And I feel strongly about home

                 rule for school districts.

                            The second point is I'm very

                 familiar with what has happened in Mount

                 Vernon, also in parts of Yonkers, where Mount

                 Vernon went from only 33 percent of their

                 student body passing the test -- this year,

                 75 percent passed.  That's an enormous

                 accomplishment.  And it was an accomplishment

                 made not only with the people of that

                 community but with, I must admit, a very, very

                 extraordinary superintendent of schools who

                 stood his ground and took on everyone and

                 accomplished.

                            This has also happened in many of

                 our schools in Yonkers.  So I know it can be

                 done.  These were some of the very hardest hit





                                                          10207



                 schools as far as students passing the Regents

                 exams.

                            I think our standards are showing,

                 our new standards, the Regents standards are

                 showing to be effective in some of our more

                 difficult schools.  It takes a while.  Things

                 don't improve overnight.  But we do have the

                 standards, and hopefully we will have the

                 support of fiscal equity for schools.

                            And I certainly did not support the

                 Governor's decision to question that decision

                 and appeal it.  I feel that if we are going to

                 help thousands and thousands of our children

                 in New York State, not just in Roosevelt -- we

                 have many examples of really some deplorable

                 conditions and results in many of our schools

                 around the state.  We have to make a

                 commitment as a state to finance schools and

                 to provide the additional assistance where it

                 is needed.  We need to put in Saturday school.

                 We need to put in more summer school.  We need

                 to put in additional time after school ends.

                 And that is going to cost us money.

                            And I think we as a state have to

                 make that commitment.  It is not just





                                                          10208



                 Roosevelt that has enormous problems.  We can

                 name dozens and dozens of other schools with

                 terrible problems where the children need our

                 assistance.  And we as a state have to make

                 that commitment.

                            But I cannot overrule a school

                 board's decision.  I'll be voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Would Senator Fuschillo yield for

                 a few questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, will you yield for some questions?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you.

                            Let me say during my short tenure

                 I've come to appreciate Senator Fuschillo's

                 thoughtful and fair approach to issues.

                            My question one would be, when was

                 the last school board election in the

                 district, Senator?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    This past





                                                          10209



                 month.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    And would Senator

                 Fuschillo continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator,

                 do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    He

                 continues to yield.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    So there was an

                 election for the school board this past month.

                 How many new school board members were

                 elected?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator, to

                 the best of my knowledge, one, maybe two.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Would the Senator

                 continue to yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Out of how many,

                 Senator?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    There were

                 three that ran.  I believe there were three





                                                          10210



                 members that were up this year.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    And would the

                 Senator continue to yield?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    How many members

                 in total are there on the school board?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I'm sorry,

                 Senator, I didn't hear your question.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    How many school

                 board members in total are there in Roosevelt?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    There are

                 four now.  There are five positions.

                            The president resigned, I believe a

                 month ago.  The vice president became the

                 president.  There's no vice president of the

                 board.  I believe there's one vacancy.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    And my final

                 question is in the legislation, Senator, I

                 gues an interim board would be selected.

                 Would there be any residency requirements for

                 the interim board members that would be

                 selected?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No, there's

                 not.  There's nothing in the legislation to

                 preclude any member from the Roosevelt





                                                          10211



                 community from being selected to be put on

                 that board.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    On the bill,

                 Madam President, very briefly.

                            I've been listening intently to

                 what everyone has said, and I could almost

                 argue either side.  However, it seems to me

                 that the solution involves the leadership in

                 the district but, more specifically, in the

                 schools, particularly the superintendent, the

                 principals, and the assistant principals.  I

                 think that's where the accountability lies,

                 where the oversight seems to be lacking.

                            I'm very troubled by what's

                 happening in Roosevelt, and this is -- I get a

                 feeling that nobody is really right on this

                 situation.  You can only hope that you're

                 doing the proper -- taking the proper

                 position.  It must be terribly frustrating to

                 be a parent in Roosevelt.





                                                          10212



                            I'm going to vote no on this bill,

                 because I do have confidence that -- at least

                 I certainly hope the school board will finally

                 get it right, select a superintendent who can

                 put an end to the anarchy and the chaos that

                 seems to be going on in the Roosevelt school

                 system.

                            And if there is mismanagement, as

                 Senator Fuschillo described, then it seems to

                 me that the district attorney should come in

                 and either prosecute or investigate, turn it

                 over to a grand jury or whatever the law will

                 provide.

                            Madam President, I don't think

                 there are any winners on this or any -- and

                 certainly the children seem to be the big

                 losers.  But I think we have to give it the

                 best try that we can, and that's to err on the

                 side of having confidence in the school system

                 itself.  And if the superintendent can't do

                 the job, then it's certainly time -- perhaps

                 the superintendent from Mount Vernon could

                 give some help, or have some mentoring program

                 or whatever.

                            But, Madam President, I will vote





                                                          10213



                 no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  On the bill.

                            I'd like to congratulate Senator

                 Fuschillo for the action in bringing this

                 legislation before us.  Because, as witnessed

                 by the debate, it is not an easy issue.

                            Local control is ingrained both in

                 our constitution and in the laws that we pass.

                 It is appropriate for this body to scrutinize

                 decisions that will move away, even in the

                 slightest, from that principle, to have those

                 closest to the issues who are elected by

                 people to control their own destiny.

                            This issue is not being debated for

                 the first time.  It has been debated before.

                 Steps have been taken, and individuals who

                 have -- the Board of Regents, the

                 Commissioner, and others have tried to take

                 steps to ensure that local control and

                 decision-making is honored.

                            This is not unique.  We in this

                 body have allowed local processes to run its





                                                          10214



                 full course.  But when we felt that things

                 have gotten away locally, we have intervened,

                 by creating control boards, to get the ship

                 running straight and steady.

                            We have in this state, through the

                 Board of Regents, taken over a college,

                 Adelphi University.  And I must tell you, I

                 was not happy with that.  But I must admit

                 that the appointees on the board of directors

                 of the university put new life, new vision

                 into that university and have stabilized what

                 was once a great university to continue that.

                            It is appropriate for us to debate

                 and scrutinize this, as we are here today.

                 But we are talking about something that is so

                 precious and so important.  Senator Malcolm

                 Smith talked about the nexus and the

                 importance of taking our young people, which

                 are the vitality and the hope and the future

                 of this state and this nation, to make sure

                 that they have all that they can have, through

                 education, to meet their hopes and their

                 expectations.

                            This is not a permanent solution,

                 but this is a solution that will bring new





                                                          10215



                 energy, new hope and, as we have seen in the

                 past with cities and other municipalities and

                 the university, to make a change and to bring

                 the people in the community back into the

                 process, to give them hope.

                            Senator Marcellino was right on

                 point when he said, and Senator Malcolm Smith,

                 that people had given up hope, they don't want

                 to send their children to school.  That's not

                 fiction.  That's fact.  I have sat on panels

                 and listened to the textbooks -- or

                 nontextbooks -- that students in the Roosevelt

                 School District have.  It's shameful.  The

                 building conditions, it's shameful.

                            No student should lose that hope.

                 We are not making this decision and this

                 legislation was not brought before us lightly.

                 It wasn't taken lightly.  It was done through

                 much thought, much deliberation.  And so I

                 hope that we could give the children and the

                 parents of Roosevelt that hope.  And I would

                 hope we could support Senator Fuschillo.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger was next.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,





                                                          10216



                 Madam President.  I'll be very brief.  I've

                 already spoken on the bill.

                            Senator LaValle, I think you're

                 absolutely correct when you describe the fact

                 that the State of New York has imposed control

                 boards.  We have exercised our oversight

                 function.

                            We have never, Senator LaValle, to

                 my recollection, never said:  You can't vote

                 for your school board person.  We've never

                 taken away that power to vote for the mayor of

                 the City of New York.  We've never said:  You

                 can't vote for city council.  We've never said

                 you couldn't vote for the mayor of Troy when

                 we bailed out Troy.

                            We're saying today that you can't

                 vote to elect your school board president in

                 the Roosevelt School District, that we're

                 going to decide who sits in that chair.  I

                 would say that makes this bill very different

                 from all its predecessors.

                            And I'll close with one other

                 prophecy.  I may be right, I may be wrong.

                 But, Senator Marcellino, your strong advocacy

                 for this bill struck a chord in me.  There is





                                                          10217



                 a judge in this state who has said to us,

                 right here in this room, the 61 members of

                 this room, that you have done to education for

                 children in this state what we now claim the

                 school board in Roosevelt has done to their

                 children, that we have not given proper

                 funding to allow them to meet the

                 constitutional mandate of a quality education.

                            That judge has said -- he ordered

                 this Legislature to produce a remedial plan by

                 September 15th to ensure that our children

                 would get their constitutional right.  The

                 Governor of this state has chosen, as is his

                 right, to appeal that decision.

                            There may come a day when the Court

                 of Appeals of this state agrees with that

                 judge and says to this Legislature:  You have

                 failed to do the job.  Just like this bill

                 says to the Roosevelt School District:  You

                 failed to do the job.

                            We will have to submit a remedial

                 plan.  And when that judge says, Guess what,

                 the remedial plan doesn't do the job and I'm

                 going to take over the power to put money into

                 public education in New York State -- and he's





                                                          10218



                 going to take that power away from us -- I

                 daresay that people in this chamber, including

                 me, are going to stand up and say, That's

                 wrong.  That's wrong.  It's our judgment.  We

                 were elected to decide how that constitutional

                 right is enforced.  We were given the power by

                 the people of this state.

                            Even though the Majority in this

                 house, even though the Majority in this house

                 has been from one political party for the last

                 40 years, I would stand up and defend their

                 prerogative to decide how much money goes into

                 education.  And I will not let a judge tell

                 us, unless it's the absolute last thing we

                 have to do, that we don't have the power to do

                 it.  We were elected to do it.  Our judgment

                 should control.

                            And all I would ask is that those

                 who will vigorously defend the power of this

                 chamber to decide the future of educational

                 opportunity in this state, all I'm asking

                 today is that you not take away that power

                 from the Roosevelt School District.  Because

                 there's an argument that says we have failed

                 too, and that in the near future we may face





                                                          10219



                 the same command from someone who says:  I

                 know better than the New York State Senate who

                 should get what money for education.

                            I will stand with my Republican

                 colleagues and say, Do not take that power

                 away from us.  While we may have vast

                 disagreements about how money should be spent

                 and where it should go, and we may not -- I

                 may not have the power that my vision for

                 education be implemented because I'm not in

                 the Majority in this house, but I will stand

                 shoulder to shoulder with the members of this

                 house and say, It's not right to take away our

                 power as elected officials.  We are stripping

                 the people of this state of the power of their

                 vote.

                            I will protest when a judge tells

                 us to -- threatens to take it away from us.

                 And I will stand up today when this bill takes

                 it away from the elected officials in the

                 Roosevelt School District.  This is something

                 that needs to be solved by them.  It can't be

                 solved from the outside by this bill.

                            I caution all of you, there may

                 come a time when we have this debate and it's





                                                          10220



                 us that's having its power taken away.  I

                 would be very careful with how you allow that

                 power to be taken away anywhere in this state.

                 It's going to come back to haunt us.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    On the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Onorato, on the bill.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I've been

                 listening to the debate on both sides of the

                 issue here quite a bit, and I just want to

                 point out a little story that I heard one

                 time.

                            It had to do with a flash flood

                 that was occurring in a town.  And as the

                 floodwaters were rising, there was a preacher

                 in the center of town, where the church was

                 flooding, and he went up to the higher level.

                 And a boat passed by, and he says:  "Reverend,

                 would you please come in?"  The water was

                 rising.  He says, "No, don't worry."  He says,

                 "The good Lord will provide."

                            The water kept rising.  He went a





                                                          10221



                 little higher.  The state troopers came to try

                 to rescue him.  They said, "Reverend, please

                 come in.  The water is rising.  You'll soon be

                 overwhelmed."  He says, "Don't worry, the good

                 Lord will provide."

                            Finally the flood crest hit the

                 roof, and a helicopter passed by:  "Reverend,

                 please get on.  The water is rising, there's

                 no further hope."  He says, "Don't worry, I'm

                 a good servant of the Lord, and the Lord will

                 provide."

                            Well, to make a long story short,

                 the reverend drowned.  And he went up to

                 heaven.  And when he was there, he said, "I

                 would like to speak to the Lord."  So when

                 they guided him before the Lord, he says, "I

                 can't believe that You abandoned me in my hour

                 of need.  I asked for Your help, and You

                 refused me."

                            The good Lord looked at him.  He

                 says, "Reverend," he says, "I sent the boat, I

                 sent the state troopers, and I sent the

                 helicopter.  I can't help it if you can't read

                 the signs."

                            This is what's happening now.  We





                                                          10222



                 sent help to the Roosevelt School District.

                 We gave them additional funding.  We took away

                 some of their board members, we replaced them.

                 The people themselves replaced them.

                            Now Senator Dollinger says that we

                 have to worry about them taking some of our

                 powers away.  Well, they do that every two

                 years.  When they don't think we're doing the

                 right job, they throw us out.

                            Well, this is what we're telling

                 the people of Roosevelt:  You're not doing the

                 job that you were elected to do to provide

                 quality education to your children.  We have

                 to send out that life raft, and we've got to

                 make sure that all of the children of

                 Roosevelt get into that boat and on to higher

                 education.

                            I urge my colleagues to join me in

                 throwing out that life raft to save the

                 children of Roosevelt.  I vote yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I am going to talk out of both





                                                          10223



                 sides of my mouth, if you will.  I agree with

                 everyone.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I agree with

                 my colleagues who have raised these very

                 important issues about the idea of throwing

                 out the vote of the electorate in Roosevelt.

                            And I certainly am impressed to see

                 the passion that has been exhibited in the

                 debate.  Senator Marcellino I certainly

                 respect.  He's been a teacher in the city of

                 New York and knows firsthand, on the front

                 lines.  And certainly Senator Smith over here.

                            Let me say I've been thinking of

                 myself here in this chamber and feeling sorry

                 for myself, and I'm putting myself in the

                 shoes of those young people in this Roosevelt

                 School District.  I really feel so frustrated

                 that our system is not working.  Certainly

                 it's not working to my satisfaction as an

                 elected official who represents the same

                 number of people that every other Senator

                 represents.

                            There are some Senators who have

                 millions of dollars that they can bring to





                                                          10224



                 their constituents.  I can't do that.  There

                 are some Senators who have access to travel,

                 to make decisions on legislation, to do the

                 work that a Senator should be doing.  I can't

                 do that.

                            I'm terribly frustrated.  And if

                 there was anyone who could fix this place, I

                 would be very happy.  But I'm not the Majority

                 Leader, I'm not the Speaker.  I'm not in the

                 Majority, I'm not a Republican, I'm not a

                 white male.  So there are many things

                 operating against me.  I'm -- I'm here.  But

                 at the same time, I believe in this system,

                 I'm proud to be part of it.  But I can tell

                 you, I'm very frustrated.

                            Now, if I were a student in

                 Roosevelt, stuck in a school where I was not

                 likely to be able to graduate on time with the

                 kind of background and foundation that would

                 propel me into a successful college

                 experience, career experience, I would be

                 terribly frustrated.  And those students in

                 Roosevelt, the same as I am here, are not able

                 to do for themselves, to make the kinds of

                 decisions that will make a difference in their





                                                          10225



                 school so that that school works.

                            So here we are.  We are in a

                 position to make a decision on their behalf.

                 And I, similarly to Senator Smith, similarly

                 to Senator Marcellino -- for once, we have the

                 Republicans and Democrats weighing on my

                 decision equally in this instance.  A

                 Republican and a Democrat, at least -- I want

                 to represent the interests of those young

                 people who are not in a position to represent

                 themselves.

                            I rail all of the time against all

                 kinds of legislation that I think will be

                 unfairly disadvantageous to young people that

                 I represent in my district.  I think the same

                 thing about those young people in Roosevelt.

                 But if I'm not willing to make a decision that

                 will help to improve their opportunities, then

                 I can't stand up and complain about those

                 issues that I think are to their detriment.

                            So I'm going to vote yes today.

                 And I feel that I am voting on behalf of the

                 young people, those students in Roosevelt who

                 are crying out for some help from somewhere,

                 somebody.  And I think that we're that body





                                                          10226



                 and we should do something on their behalf.

                            So I'll be voting yes, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Is there

                 any other Senator that wishes to speak on the

                 bill?

                            Senator Fuschillo, to close.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Just briefly,

                 Madam President.

                            This is probably the best debate,

                 full of compassion and passion for people.

                 And I appreciate all the comments.

                            Senator Montgomery, I agree with

                 everything that's been said too, in one

                 fashion or another.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson isn't

                 here.

                            We've gone through it all in the

                 last five years.  Senator Stavisky, you talked

                 about superintendents.  We've had five in five

                 years.  Five.  The one now is the one, in my

                 opinion.  He's the one who's reaching out to

                 the community.  He's the one who I believe is

                 going to bring back what everybody is talking

                 about.





                                                          10227



                            And, Senator, I wish I could wear

                 that shirt that you want to wear for the

                 successes in Mount Vernon.  It's been tried.

                 Five years of failure.

                            Senator Hannon laughs when I say

                 when is enough enough.  It's going.

                            Senator Onorato, they're drowning.

                 They're going down.  I spoke last Friday at

                 the sixth grade in Centennial, an elementary

                 school in Roosevelt, 25 kids.  And when these

                 kids walk into the school, they should see a

                 subliminal message that says "the land of

                 opportunity, something that is going to enrich

                 my life."  They don't see that.  They see

                 failure.  Because the school board, the

                 Citizens Action Committee, the oversight

                 committee by the state, the task force by the

                 state can't get their act together.

                            Senator Onorato, I need that life

                 preserver right now.  And that's what this

                 legislation does.

                            And Senator Marcellino, to Senator

                 Balboni, to Senator Malcolm Smith, thank you.

                            And Senator Smith, it has to come

                 from the heart.  I have three children who go





                                                          10228



                 to school, one not yet.  I want the best

                 education that we can give them.

                            And the kids from Roosevelt can

                 learn.  I want to emphasize that, they can

                 learn.  Two years ago I spoke at the

                 graduation ceremony.  The valedictorian got a

                 full scholarship to an Ivy League school.

                 Last year the captain of the football team got

                 a scholarship to an Ivy League school.  They

                 can do it.  But the teachers don't have the

                 mechanism that the school board and the

                 community as a whole and all these other

                 things that we've done in the last five

                 years -- they don't have it.  It's not there.

                            So I need, they need that clear

                 line of authority from that superintendent,

                 who is from Yonkers, who is reaching out to

                 the community -- and he's doing a terrific

                 job.  I talked to him this morning and I told

                 him this bill was coming to the floor.  And I

                 told him that for one year they're going to be

                 an interim school board and they can be from

                 Roosevelt, but there's no requirement.  And

                 that after that, in 2003, we're going back to

                 the elected body.  And we're going to





                                                          10229



                 transition it back to the community, because

                 that's where it belongs.

                            I love what I do, and I love when

                 my bills come to the floor.  If you think this

                 is easy for me, it's not.  It's not.  But the

                 superintendent said to me, by having that

                 transitional period, it's going to allow me to

                 breathe life into that community that is

                 choking.

                            I thank you for all your comments,

                 and I urge a yes vote on this bill.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect July 20, 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Gonzalez.

                            SENATOR GONZALEZ:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I think that I'm frustrated with

                 the education of the city, I'm frustrated with





                                                          10230



                 the education that's going on in the state, in

                 various parts of the state.  It's no different

                 in Roosevelt as it is in New York City.

                            And I want everybody to take

                 notice, that we got to do something about it.

                 So I vote yes.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Gonzalez in the affirmative.

                            Senator Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            For the very same reason, I'm

                 voting no.  We have to do something about it

                 in the state of New York.  The difference now

                 from five years ago, Senator Fuschillo, in my

                 opinion, is that we have the courts talking to

                 us now.  And the courts are saying:  New York

                 State, get your act together, you're not doing

                 the right thing and educating your students.

                 They're not getting a sound, basic education.

                            And it's a statewide problem, in

                 pockets.  Even in pockets in my county,

                 supposedly the wealthy county of Westchester.

                 So we need help too, in certain areas.  We





                                                          10231



                 need leadership and we need money.  And we

                 need additional help for children in need.

                            And it has to come from us.  And

                 that's the difference.  The difference is the

                 Campaign for Fiscal Equity.

                            I'm voting no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer, in the negative.

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  Briefly to explain my vote.

                            In 1995 I was one of the people

                 that Senator Levy spoke with, along with the

                 Commissioner of Education, along with Regent

                 Adelaide Sanford, in an attempt to really

                 examine for himself, with us, those of us that

                 he thought would give him some opinion that he

                 would integrate into his decision about what

                 he was doing for the Roosevelt School

                 District.

                            And I also remember the difficulty

                 we had in coming to a conclusion for New York

                 City governance reform.  It was also painful,

                 similarly to what we're doing today.  But we

                 had to do it.  I'm very, very thankful that we





                                                          10232



                 did it.  I think we can all feel proud of

                 ourselves because we have changed the

                 environment for education in New York City.

                            And so I hope that today, by taking

                 this step, that though it is drastic we will

                 change the environment for education in

                 Roosevelt.  And by doing that, we can begin to

                 see some significant improvements.

                            So I'm voting yes.  And I certainly

                 appreciate Senator Fuschillo and Assemblywoman

                 Earlene Hill Hooper for their efforts to

                 improve that district.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery recorded in the affirmative.

                            Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I am also going to vote yes on

                 this, although I hear Senator Oppenheimer.

                 You know, you can make the arguments either

                 way.

                            My vote is based in part on the

                 commitment that I sense from people in support

                 of this legislation to actually intervene and

                 do something about the most fundamental crisis





                                                          10233



                 in our state, which is the failure to educate

                 our children.

                            I hope that we are going to get

                 that same level of commitment and passion as

                 we undertake the task of saving all of the

                 other children in this state who are getting

                 educations just as lousy as the children in

                 Roosevelt, just as bad.

                            And I have been in the courtroom in

                 the Campaign for Fiscal Equity case and seen

                 the evidence.  And if you sat there for a

                 couple of days and heard about kids who are

                 basically treated like they're, you know, in

                 prison, kids who can't read, who are reading

                 three and four years behind their grade level,

                 all over the state, then the question of what

                 we're doing about that and the question of

                 what this Governor is doing about that should

                 be first and foremost in our minds.

                            And I hope that we will pass a

                 resolution, if you're sincere about what

                 you've said today, as the Assembly has done,

                 calling on the Governor to drop the appeal.

                 Let's comply with the Campaign for Fiscal

                 Equity case.  Let's save all the Roosevelt





                                                          10234



                 districts.  We can do it.

                            And this house is not moving

                 forward on the big issue.  I support you on

                 this one.  I hope you'll come around and echo

                 the language and the arguments you've used

                 today when we go to all the other districts in

                 the state that have these same problems.

                            I vote yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, in the affirmative.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.  Just to explain my

                 vote.

                            I made the impassioned plea and did

                 not try to persuade anybody else to vote the

                 way I voted, because nobody else was in

                 Mount Vernon to see the changes and to see

                 structurally what happened and how we came to

                 the point that we did.

                            My no vote does not mean that I do

                 not believe, Senator Fuschillo, that you are

                 doing the right thing as you see it for that

                 school district.  My concern becomes when the

                 state takes the power away from school





                                                          10235



                 districts and away from the voters to do what

                 is their constitutional right to do.  That is

                 a major stroke that I cannot support.

                            I support every other aspect.  I

                 support your intent and your desire to give

                 more power to the Commissioner that will allow

                 him to intervene, to assist and support.  But

                 I cannot support the ousting of a school board

                 that has been duly elected by the people of

                 Roosevelt.

                            All of the assistance and support,

                 all of the concerns, those are major.  We

                 experienced them in Mount Vernon.  And people

                 can tell me that Mount Vernon was different.

                 It wasn't different.  Because we had schools

                 where we had metal detectors on our schools.

                 We had parents who literally took their

                 children out of the public school because they

                 did not want them to be in that environment.

                 Those parents are bringing their children back

                 into the public schools today because of the

                 commitment that the city of Mount Vernon has

                 been able to make.

                            So my vote no is not against the

                 children and the efforts of Roosevelt.  But it





                                                          10236



                 is no against the state taking a major step in

                 taking away the power of the electorate in

                 Roosevelt.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator,

                 you vote in the -

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    No.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson in the negative.

                            Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

                 President, to briefly explain my vote.

                            Last Friday I visited a school in

                 my district in Flushing, downtown Flushing, in

                 District 25, which is the most improved school

                 district in the City of New York.  And at

                 P.S. 20, where 75 different languages are

                 spoken, I saw a school that works.  I saw a

                 school where the children were doing very

                 well.  And I'm convinced it's because of the

                 leadership in that particular school.

                            I'm delighted, Senator Fuschillo,

                 that you have a superintendent -- you finally

                 hit the right superintendent.  And that

                 convinces me to give him the opportunity, give

                 him the resources and let us hope that he can





                                                          10237



                 do the job without someone breathing down his

                 neck.

                            And I very reluctantly vote no on

                 this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky, how do you vote?

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    No.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    In the

                 negative.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, in spite of the prodding from

                 Senator Schneiderman, I'm still going to vote

                 no.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    We'll see

                 you later.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    And I'd like

                 Senator Onorato to know that after the

                 preacher drowned, I heard the state took over

                 his church.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    But I wanted

                 to add that to the discussion, because it's

                 been a rather fierce discussion.  And I really





                                                          10238



                 think that -- I hope people come together.

                 This is the vote that we've taken.  The people

                 have spoken through our elected officials.

                 Obviously this bill is going to pass.  The

                 Assembly member in that district is a good

                 friend of mine.  She's in favor of it.

                            And I really hope that those who

                 did oppose this, such as myself, will work

                 with the people who are coming in to try to

                 improve that district.  Because it is really

                 the best interests of the children that we're

                 talking about.

                            And I think that the no votes in

                 this case were needed, because we have to make

                 sure that this doesn't open the door to

                 rampant state takeovers.  There are

                 situations, such as in the civil rights

                 movement, as Senator Schneiderman just told

                 me, where, you know, sometimes governments do

                 need to be taken over.  And I guess maybe in

                 this case that's the case.

                            I'm going to vote no, but I hope it

                 will stand as an admonishment.  I think what

                 Senator Hassell-Thompson said about

                 Mount Vernon is something that we might want





                                                          10239



                 to look at before we have to go down this road

                 the next time.

                            I wish all the people in Roosevelt

                 well.  I grew up very close to there.  That

                 school district had problems 30 years ago.

                 And I hope that the great talent that is in

                 that geographic area comes forth with the help

                 of the state.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson in the negative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1264 are

                 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Hassell-Thompson,

                 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago, Stachowski,

                 and Stavisky.

                            Ayes, 47.  Nays, 8.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

                 President, can we return to reports of

                 standing committees.  I understand there's a

                 report of the Rules Committee at the desk.

                 May we have it read now.





                                                          10240



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 1048, by Senator

                 Santiago, an act authorizing the City of

                 New York.

                            3179, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            3180, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

                            3246, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Education Law.

                            3330A, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 amend the Education Law.

                            5309A, by Senator Alesi, an act to

                 authorize the Town of Henrietta.

                            5443, by Senator Wright, an act to

                 amend the Public Service Law.

                            5463, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 authorize.

                            5619, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 141 of the Laws

                 of 1994.





                                                          10241



                            5626, by Senator Bruno, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law and the Public Health

                 Law.

                            And 5627, by Senator LaValle, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Move to

                 accept the report of the Rules Committee,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in

                 favor accepting the report of the Rules

                 Committee signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Nay?

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

                 President, may we return to the controversial

                 calendar and take up Calendar Number 631 at

                 this time, please.





                                                          10242



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 631, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3230A, an

                 act in relation to authorizing the Southern

                 Tier.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk, Madam

                 President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Move to

                 accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Those

                 opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is accepted.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          10243



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  May we continue in regular order

                 with the controversial calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1267, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5595,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 authorized dispositions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Morahan, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Madam





                                                          10244



                 President.

                            This bill adds another section, 5,

                 to the Penal Law, for second-degree murder,

                 which would allow a mandatory

                 life-without-parole sentence for anyone who

                 would be committing a murder on a child of

                 14 or under while engaged in another criminal

                 act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1209, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5042A,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in





                                                          10245



                 relation to providing a tax exemption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Saland, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Madam President, this is a bill,

                 not unlike others that we've seen in this

                 house, which would permit Dutchess County to

                 enact legislation or a local law whereby the

                 county and any of its cities, towns, or

                 villages would be authorized at local option

                 to provide for a 10 percent real property tax

                 exemption for volunteer firefighters and

                 volunteer ambulance workers.

                            That would occur after a public

                 hearing and would require, again, a vote by

                 either the local municipality or the county.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, just briefly on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          10246



                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm not going

                 to vote against this bill.  I understand

                 Senator Saland attempting to use the tool of a

                 property tax exemption or a reduction of

                 property taxes as an incentive for recruitment

                 for our volunteer fire departments and

                 ambulance departments.

                            My only regret, Madam President, is

                 this is only a Dutchess County bill.  This

                 should be a statewide bill.  With the

                 importance of using tax incentives to get

                 volunteers in this very busy time of American

                 life, it would seem to me the best way to do

                 this is with a statewide bill.

                            I continue to look forward to the

                 adoption of a statewide bill, because that's

                 really the right way to go, and not end up

                 with a balkanized system in which certain

                 counties get this benefit and others might

                 not, in part because of the political

                 affiliation of their elected representatives.

                            I think a statewide bill is the

                 better way to go, and I look forward to

                 casting another yes vote on a statewide bill





                                                          10247



                 in the future.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1237, by Member of the Assembly Nolan,

                 Assembly Print Number 7458, an act to amend

                 the Labor Law, in relation to prevailing wage

                 supplements.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          10248



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1268, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 5596,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 penalties for assault and manslaughter.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Morahan, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This bill would establish a more

                 appropriate penalty for criminal conduct that

                 results in unintended serious physical injury

                 or harm or death.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.





                                                          10249



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1271, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 5616, an act to amend the Education Law,

                 in relation to the distribution.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos, an explanation has been requested on

                 Calendar 1271.

                            Senator Kuhl, an explanation has

                 been requested, sir.

                            SENATOR KUHL:    And who requested

                 the explanation?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    By

                 Senator Dollinger.





                                                          10250



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator Dollinger,

                 okay.

                            Senator, it's very simple in

                 purpose.  This bill, as you can see, is being

                 offered up by Senate Rules.  And it does two

                 things.  Number one, it provides that instead

                 of a hearing possibly being held relative to

                 the creation of a charter school district

                 within a public school district that the

                 public school district now, under this bill,

                 would be required mandatorily to hold a

                 hearing.

                            And then also it goes on to say

                 that if a school district -- this is a little

                 Section 1A that's added on.  It says that if

                 in fact a school district fails to conduct a

                 public hearing that in fact the Board of

                 Regents or the charter entity shall conduct a

                 public hearing to solicit comments from the

                 community in connection with the issuance or

                 renewal of a charter.

                            And one of the things in the

                 Education Committee that we've been dealing

                 with, Senator, is that oftentimes we hear from

                 school districts who all of a sudden, in the





                                                          10251



                 middle of a budget year or whatever, find that

                 there in fact is being a charter school

                 established within their district which they

                 didn't anticipate.

                            And as you know from the charter

                 school legislation that was passed three years

                 ago in this state that there is a trail of

                 public monies that goes into that charter

                 school that would no longer go to the public

                 schools.  So there is a -- I won't call it

                 significant, but there is certainly a loss of

                 revenue because of the transfer of students.

                            What we have heard from school

                 superintendents across the state who have had

                 charter schools established within their

                 school districts is that oftentimes there are,

                 for lack of a better word, recurrent expenses

                 that they have incurred and will continue to

                 incur that even with the loss of students they

                 cannot eliminate.  So that there are some

                 additional revenues that are needed but that

                 are taken away from them on a per-pupil basis.

                            What this bill does is attempt to

                 essentially give them as much forewarning and

                 fair warning of the possibility of a charter





                                                          10252



                 school being created, so that they can make

                 the appropriate accommodations.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I have just

                 two short questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Kuhl, will you yield for some questions?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Under this

                 bill, Senator, when is the hearing supposed to

                 occur?  As I understand it, the bill says the

                 school district shall hold the hearing and, in

                 the event they don't, then it defaults to

                 either the Board of Regents or the charter

                 entity.  When would that hearing be held?  Is

                 there a time -

                            SENATOR KUHL:    We didn't define

                 that, Senator.  We've kind of left that up to

                 the discretion of the school district as to

                 when to schedule.





                                                          10253



                            I mean, what's happening is that

                 these applications are coming in at different

                 times.  And so obviously we left it to their

                 discretion to do it when they saw fit.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  And

                 through you, Madam President, if Senator Kuhl

                 would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Kuhl, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I raised this

                 question in the Rules Committee deliberation

                 on this bill, and I think it's been answered.

                 But at line 17 of the bill it says that "the

                 Board of Regents or their charter entity."

                            Would that be the SUNY Board of

                 Trustees, because they're the other entity

                 under state law that has the authority to

                 charter schools?

                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.  Yeah, there

                 are only two entities, as you know, that have

                 the power to grant charters.





                                                          10254



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Great.

                            Just on the bill briefly, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I want to

                 thank Senator Kuhl and his staff for their

                 work on this bill.  I raised a question in the

                 Rules Committee about whether it would apply

                 to the Board of Regents and to the SUNY

                 trustees, the requirement that the default

                 public hearing be held by the chartering

                 entity.  The bill certainly seems to have

                 attended to that.

                            I think it's a good bill.  I think

                 that Senator Kuhl is correct, that oftentimes

                 school districts are caught unawares, not only

                 about the creation of the charter school but

                 about the relevant costs and the extent to

                 which they will take students away and take

                 revenue away from the school district.

                            This is a good idea and a necessary

                 amendment to the charter school process.  I

                 recommend people vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the





                                                          10255



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Saland.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Madam President,

                 I would request unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1069,

                 Senate 5355A.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection.

                            Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Madam President, I

                 would request unanimous consent to be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 5355A.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection.

                            Senator Balboni.





                                                          10256



                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  Could we please return to motions

                 and resolutions.

                            There are three privileged

                 resolutions at the desk, two by Senator Skelos

                 and one by Senator LaValle.  Could we please

                 have the titles read and move for their

                 immediate adoption.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Motions

                 and resolutions.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senators

                 Skelos, Bruno, LaValle, and Onorato,

                 Legislative Resolution Number 2576,

                 celebrating the memorable life of Brian Fahey,

                 dedicated father, husband, firefighter and

                 friend.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All those in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The





                                                          10257



                 resolution is adopted.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Please continue

                 to read the resolutions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senators

                 Skelos, Bruno, LaValle, and Onorato,

                 Legislative Resolution Number 2599, mourning

                 the tragic death of Harry Ford, dedicated

                 father, husband, firefighter and friend.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 resolution is adopted.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, is that resolution open to -

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Senator

                 Paterson, at the conclusion of the next





                                                          10258



                 resolution's reading I will make the usual -

                 the customary and usual practice in this house

                 is to open all the bills for sponsorship -- I

                 mean open all resolutions.  Thank you.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    And thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senators

                 LaValle, Bruno, Skelos, and Onorato,

                 Legislative Resolution Number 2600, mourning

                 the tragic death of John Downing, dedicated

                 father, husband, firefighter and friend.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the resolution.  All in favor

                 signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 resolution is adopted.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, as I mentioned before to Senator

                 Paterson, we'd like to open up all these -





                                                          10259



                 the three resolutions for sponsorship.

                            And the prayers of everyone in this

                 chamber go to the families of the firefighters

                 who we honor today.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Balboni.

                            Senator Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, I rise today to pay tribute to the

                 memory of three extraordinary men, Brian

                 Fahey, John Downing, and Harry Ford.

                            This past Sunday, on Father's Day,

                 these three courageous firefighters made the

                 ultimate sacrifice on our behalf.  They died

                 in an effort to serve and protect the people

                 of Astoria, Queens, which I represent, from

                 the ravages of a devastating explosive fire.

                            Brian Fahey, John Downing, and

                 Harry Ford exemplified in word and deed what

                 we have come to expect from these firefighters

                 and police officers we call New York's finest.

                 They were dedicated public servants and loving

                 husbands and fathers.  In passing this

                 resolution today, the State Senate joins with

                 the many others in New York City and New York





                                                          10260



                 State in honoring their memories and

                 expressing heartfelt condolences to their

                 families.

                            We can never hope to repay our debt

                 to Brian Fahey, John Downing, and Harry Ford,

                 but we can pay tribute to their memories and

                 reaffirm our deep respect for the firefighters

                 in our city and state who stand ready, every

                 minute of the day, to give their lives in an

                 effort to save the lives of others.

                            As we honor their lives and these

                 three men who were taken from their families

                 and their communities so suddenly and so

                 prematurely, we must remind ourselves never to

                 take our firefighters for granted.  We must

                 honor their bravery and dedication to public

                 service every day.  That, I believe, would be

                 a fitting and lasting tribute to the memories

                 of Brian Fahey, John Downing, and Harry Ford.

                            These were true heroes, and their

                 legacy of courage and commitment to the people

                 of the City and the State of New York will

                 live on.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The





                                                          10261



                 three resolutions will be open to all members.

                 Any member wishing not to be on the resolution

                 should notify the desk.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, is there housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 three substitutions.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 6146 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 3179, Third Reading Calendar 1279.

                            Senator LaValle moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 6145 and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 3180, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1280.

                            Senator Volker moves to discharge,

                 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill

                 Number 6697A and substitute it for the

                 identical Senate Bill Number 3330A, Third

                 Reading Calendar 1282.

                            And Senator Wright moves to





                                                          10262



                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8952 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5443,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1284.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, could we just stand at ease for a

                 moment, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 house will stand at ease.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:25 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 2:30 p.m.)

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, now that the clock is right -- I'd

                 like to thank the sergeant-at-arms for

                 correcting the clock -- it's time to take up





                                                          10263



                 the Supplemental Calendar Number 1, if

                 possible.  Could we please have the

                 noncontroversial reading of that calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Balboni.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 384, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 1110A, an act to amend the Education Law, in

                 relation to establishing.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 683, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4772, an

                 act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          10264



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 745, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1504A, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to misrepresentations.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 801, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1050, an

                 act to amend the State Finance Law and Chapter

                 83 of the Laws of 1995.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the





                                                          10265



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 886, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8485B, an act to amend

                 the Education Law, in relation to safety

                 devices.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in one year.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10266



                 917, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 105 -

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1278, by Senator Santiago, Senate Print 1048,

                 an act authorizing the City of New York to

                 reconvey its interest.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1279, substituted earlier today by Member of





                                                          10267



                 the Assembly Thiele, Assembly Print Number

                 6146, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1280, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Thiele, Assembly Print Number

                 6145, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

                 Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1281, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3246,

                 an act to amend the Education Law and the

                 Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          10268



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1282, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Eve, Assembly Print Number 6697A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect September 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1283, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5309A, an

                 act to authorize the Town of Henrietta.





                                                          10269



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1284, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

                 Number 8952, an act to amend the Public

                 Service Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10270



                 1285, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5463, an

                 act to authorize.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Lay that bill

                 aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1286, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 5619, an act to amend Chapter 141 of the

                 Laws of 1994.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Please lay that

                 bill aside temporarily also.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1288, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5627,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation

                 to coverage.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            That completes the reading of the

                 noncontroversial supplemental calendar.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President.





                                                          10271



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Could we please

                 have a reading of the controversial calendar,

                 in order.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read in order.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 384, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 110A,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marcellino, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill is similar to the one

                 we've done recently with regard to daycare

                 centers.  We're simply asking that school

                 districts develop a procedure -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Excuse

                 me, Senator Marcellino.

                            Could we have some quiet in the

                 house, please.

                            Thank you.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,





                                                          10272



                 Madam President.

                            We're simply asking that school

                 districts develop a procedure in the schools

                 that asks anyone coming into the school to

                 check in, to identify themselves and state the

                 purpose of their visit.

                            This ensures -- this would

                 hopefully ensure the safety of the youngsters

                 so that people just do not feel they can walk

                 into schools at any point in time and just

                 wander around.  We'd like to know who is in

                 the building and what the purpose is of the

                 person in the building.  If it's legitimate,

                 that's fine.  They'll be directed to the place

                 they have to go.

                            This would at least allow a record

                 to be maintained and we know who's in the

                 building.  And those who shouldn't be there

                 are forewarned that they will not be permitted

                 to enter.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If the

                 sponsor will yield just to one question, Madam

                 President.





                                                          10273



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marcellino, will you yield for one question?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, is

                 there any reason why local school boards

                 couldn't do this for themselves?  And isn't

                 there significant evidence that most of them

                 have done this kind of check-in protocols for

                 entering public schools?

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The answer

                 to your question, Senator, is absolutely yes,

                 they could do it for themselves, and many

                 have.  Many have not.  And we are simply

                 saying it is time that all districts take the

                 precaution to identify people who come into a

                 building where children are to be found.

                            It wouldn't be the first time that

                 adults have walked into buildings unchallenged

                 by anyone.  I mentioned the case in the prior

                 bill we passed in this house for my video

                 surveillance bill where the person walked into

                 the building unchallenged -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Excuse





                                                          10274



                 me, Senator Marcellino, will you suffer an

                 interruption?

                            We must have order in the chamber.

                 Would you please take your conversations

                 outside so that we can hear the debate.

                            Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    That person

                 entered the building of a school unchallenged,

                 went to the locker room, secreted a camera,

                 left, a few days later came back,

                 unchallenged, to pick up the camera.

                            We don't think that's the way to

                 go.  We believe that a parent whose child is

                 in these buildings deserves to know that there

                 is a security system there that will check to

                 see who is walking into the school.  Teachers

                 deserve the right to be safe and secure and to

                 know that people in the halls have been

                 identified, we know who they are and they're

                 not just some person deciding to wander around

                 the building for whatever reason.

                            These are schools of learning and

                 education.  And certainly peace, quiet, and

                 control is an essential element to learning

                 and education.





                                                          10275



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just briefly

                 on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm going to

                 vote in favor of this bill.  It seems to me

                 that -- I guess I regard this as a bill that

                 will be duplicative of most districts'

                 efforts.  The protocols that Senator

                 Marcellino's bill outlines are in effect in

                 every school district that I know of in Monroe

                 County and every building in Monroe County.

                            And my only concern is that by

                 giving the Commissioner broad-based authority

                 to promulgate regulations he will promulgate

                 some regulations that are not in current

                 effect, and what we'll do is have overly broad

                 regulatory authority that will require school

                 districts in many cases that have effective

                 protocols for visitors to change those, and

                 may require an additional expense and time and





                                                          10276



                 effort.

                            And I'm going to vote in favor of

                 it.  But whenever we do this where we seem to

                 be duplicating what's already in existence, I

                 question how pervasive the need is for this

                 particular bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 745, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1504A, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam





                                                          10277



                 President, could you please lay this bill

                 aside temporarily and go to the next bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 917, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 105,

                 an act in relation to granting.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Senator Marcellino, an explanation

                 has been requested.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            This bill was introduced a number

                 at the times at the request of the Town of

                 Huntington.  We have passed this bill on many

                 occasions.  It would grant a person by the

                 name of Gladys Raso a retroactive senior

                 citizen tax exemption for the years 1986-'87

                 through 1990-'91 inclusively.

                            They agree there was a mistake made

                 on their part.  She is entitled to the





                                                          10278



                 exemption.  They have sent us the home rule

                 message.  They are willing to grant it, they

                 just would like us to give them the authority

                 to do so.  They feel we need to give them the

                 authority to do so.  Their lawyers tell them

                 that, so we're here to do that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, I'm going to vote in favor of

                 this bill -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    -- even

                 though, quite frankly, I've voted against

                 partial property tax exemptions for all the

                 not-for-profit groups on Long Island, and

                 because it appears in this case, based on what

                 Senator Marcellino said, that the fault lies

                 exclusively with the government entity.

                            And in those circumstances, I think

                 it's justifiable to grant an exemption that

                 they would otherwise be entitled to except the

                 government made the mistake.  In this case, I

                 think this is distinguishable from that long





                                                          10279



                 list of property tax exemptions where the

                 entity that's entitled to it didn't take the

                 steps to perfect it.

                            Under those circumstances, this is

                 a different deal from the one I usually vote

                 against, and I'll vote in favor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    A home

                 rule message is at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    There will be

                 an immediate conference of the Senate Majority





                                                          10280



                 in the Senate Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate conference of the Senate

                 Majority in the Senate Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Please

                 recognize Senator Dollinger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I would

                 yield, Madam President, to Senator Mendez.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Mendez.

                            SENATOR MENDEZ:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            There will be an immediate

                 conference of the Minority in Room 314.  Thank

                 you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate

                 Minority in Room 314.

                            The Senate stands at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:45 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened





                                                          10281



                 at 4:00 p.m.)

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could

                 return to the original active list, would you

                 please call up Senator Balboni's bill,

                 Calendar Number 1275.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1275, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5646,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal

                 Procedure Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There's

                 a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the message of necessity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All in favor answer aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)





                                                          10282



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Read the last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    May we have

                 an explanation, please.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    A brief

                 explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni, an explanation has been requested.

                 Brief.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, thank you,

                 Senator Dollinger and Senator Schneiderman.

                 I'd be pleased to offer an explanation, a

                 brief one.

                            This is the Governor's program bill

                 as it relates to creating the crimes of

                 promoting, soliciting or hindering the

                 prosecution of acts of terrorism.  It

                 essentially mirrors the federal laws on

                 terrorism, and it creates new penalties and

                 new crimes.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just briefly,





                                                          10283



                 Madam President.

                            I understand that this bill is the

                 subject of some discussions with our

                 colleagues in the Assembly.  There are parts

                 of the bill that I think bear some serious

                 examination in those discussions.  My

                 understanding is that they will be the subject

                 of a needed scrutiny.

                            And my hope is that with a reasoned

                 scrutiny of those provisions we can end up a

                 bill that protects us from acts of terrorism,

                 is well-married to our federal law and the

                 system of federal control of terrorism, and

                 that we'll end up with a bill that can come

                 back to this house and become law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.





                                                          10284



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you please

                 call up Calendar Number 1276, by Senator

                 Volker.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1276, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5653, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law and others.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in

                 favor of accepting the message of necessity

                 say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,





                                                          10285



                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Senator Volker, I understand an

                 explanation has been requested by Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Thank you.  I

                 appreciate the opportunity to explain it.

                            Last year when we passed the Sexual

                 Assault Reform Act of 2000 there was an

                 unusual provision in the end of that bill that

                 basically said that we had run out of time and

                 that we intended in the future -- presumably

                 meaning 2001, this year -- to continue to make

                 some changes in the laws involving sexual

                 assault that we were unable to get through to

                 last year.

                            This bill represents those

                 continued changes.  And the reason I am a

                 little bit hesitant is the Governor, the

                 Senate, and the Assembly have been negotiating

                 on this issue for about four months, on and

                 off.  What this bill represents is about as

                 close to an agreement as we've been able to





                                                          10286



                 get to.

                            The Governor and the Senate are on

                 board.  We're not exactly sure where the

                 Assembly is, since the Assembly has sort of

                 backed away.  They didn't object, but they

                 have not completely agreed to this bill.  I

                 want to be perfectly candid.

                            But this was approximately where we

                 were when, as I understand it, we stopped

                 negotiating.  Now, there may be a couple of

                 things in here that they were still

                 questioning, but basically this is an

                 extension of last year's bill.

                            I will give a quick description.

                 For the aggravated sexual assault, for

                 instance, there was some question about the

                 age of a person, if a person over 18 assaults

                 a person under 13.  And that is a higher

                 crime.  We have reduced that in this bill to

                 11.  So in other words, if a person over 18

                 assaults someone under 11, the crime is a

                 higher crime against that person.

                            This adds the crime of forcible

                 touching to the list of crimes which will

                 permit prosecution for a crime of persistent





                                                          10287



                 sexual abuse.  It permits a persistent

                 misdemeanor sexual offender to be punished as

                 a felon.  It expands the Sex Offender

                 Registration Act by including sex crimes of

                 forcible touching, persistent sexual abuse,

                 aggravated sexual abuse 4, and facilitating a

                 sex offense with a controlled substance.

                            The bill amends the Family Court

                 Act to ensure that children from 9 to 12 are

                 presumptively able to testify in a Family

                 Court proceeding.

                            It creates a marital-exemption

                 defense for certain acts of consensual sexual

                 relations.  That's where the person is either

                 incapable because of drugs or capacity to

                 consent.

                            And it changes some of the terms

                 from "sodomy" to "deviant sexual intercourse"

                 and so forth, because many of the activists

                 were saying that the terms were such that they

                 preferred for the victims to have different

                 terms.  And that's what's in this bill.

                            Finally, the bill makes it a felony

                 to possess or sell amounts of what is called

                 the date-rape drug, which is GHB.  Sale of





                                                          10288



                 28 grams -- this is quite a bit -- would be a

                 C felony, and the possession of 28 grams a D

                 felony.  And that's basically it.

                            And a lot of technical corrections

                 to the SARA bill of last year.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

                 if the Senator would just yield for a question

                 of clarification.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Volker, will you yield?

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Sure, I yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you.  Through you, Madam President, just

                 explain for me, please, if you will, Senator

                 Volker, what creating a marital exemption

                 relative to certain appropriate sex acts

                 means.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    This is a

                 situation -- and as you know, we have changed

                 the rules on marriage as it is, so it is

                 possible to have a sexual assault in a





                                                          10289



                 marriage even -- even -- as long as the person

                 does not consent and so forth.

                            What this legislation does is add

                 although the person may have consented

                 technically, that the consent was because of

                 drugs, induced drugs -- that is, the other

                 spouse or whatever used drugs on that person

                 or used some sort of coercion, very similar to

                 what occurs outside the marriage.  Or where

                 the person for reasons, for instance, of

                 incapacity -- for instance, their skill or

                 whatever -- and unable to consent, as another

                 person would be, for instance, who is disabled

                 or whatever.  Then in that case, you could

                 charge someone with a sexual assault also.

                            It kind of mirrors the law outside

                 of marriage, and -- but still using the

                 understanding that there is still the

                 potential defense of marriage as long as some

                 other intervening act -- if another

                 intervening act occurs, then you could still

                 charge somebody in a marriage.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you.  Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the





                                                          10290



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 74.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 would you please call up Calendar Number 1277.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1277, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5656, an

                 act to amend Chapter 549 of the Laws of 2000.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.





                                                          10291



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All in favor say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 opposed say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is accepted.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Skelos, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 this is a chapter amendment to legislation

                 that we passed last year that would allow

                 victims, prosecutors and sentencing courts to

                 be given notice when a prisoner makes

                 application to change his or her name.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)





                                                          10292



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    To explain my

                 vote, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I expressed

                 my displeasure last year about the fact that

                 this was a piece of legislation I had worked

                 on.  In fact, I'd actually appeared on the

                 "Today Show" nationally to talk about the

                 concept underlying this bill, because this

                 bill was an idea that I had worked on when a

                 woman came to me and we had found out that the

                 murderer of her 4-year-old child was

                 attempting to change his name in a faraway

                 corner of New York, and we'd only through

                 happenstance found out about the fact that

                 that name change was underway and that it

                 designed, in the words of the murderer, to

                 protect him from the publicity that

                 accompanied his crime.

                            I proposed a bill, there were a

                 number of bills passed.  The bill was finally

                 passed by this house, signed into law, all of





                                                          10293



                 which occurred without the name of the person

                 who had done all the work actually appearing

                 on the bill.

                            I stand here again today, we're

                 doing a chapter amendment.  It's one of the

                 Governor's program bills.  There are 27

                 Senators on this bill as sponsors.  Except,

                 quite frankly, the one who did the work and

                 brought the idea was never even asked to be on

                 the bill.

                            I will never understand the code of

                 courtesy in this house that allows something

                 like that to happen.  I asked last year if

                 there were a way to change it.  Apparently, I

                 can only conclude now that there is not.  And

                 when we talk about courtesy to members, I

                 guess I will always remember what I believe is

                 this tremendous lack of courtesy in this

                 instance.

                            I'm going to vote in favor.  It was

                 a good idea when I had it.  It was a good idea

                 when I did all the work on it.  It's still a

                 good idea.  But when someone reminds me about

                 what this house means, I will never forget it.

                 I said I wouldn't forget it last year.  I





                                                          10294



                 won't forget this year either.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, in the affirmative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 on Supplemental Active List Number 1, would

                 you please call up Calendar Number 745, by

                 Senator Alesi.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 745, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1504A, an

                 act to amend the General Business Law, in

                 relation to misrepresentations.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Alesi, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill simply addresses an





                                                          10295



                 interesting situation in the existing law that

                 makes it illegal to represent the mileage on

                 an odometer on a vehicle when it is sold; in

                 other words, at the point of sale.

                            This bill addresses the situation

                 by saying it's illegal to misrepresent the

                 mileage prior to the sale.

                            Thank you very much, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you just continue in the





                                                          10296



                 regular order, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes, we

                 will.  Thank you, Senator Fuschillo.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1279, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Thiele, Assembly Print Number

                 6146, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

                 Law.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, could we have an explanation of -

                 I believe this bill was vetoed last year.  If

                 we could have an explanation of the veto

                 changes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.  This -

                 we have two bills for -- one -- this bill is

                 for -- Calendar Number 1279 is for the town of

                 East Hampton.  And it would allow animal

                 shelter officers to have peace officer status.

                 That would give them the ability to issue

                 appearance tickets.

                            And we had some disagreement with

                 the Governor because the Governor felt that





                                                          10297



                 issuing peace officer status was not necessary

                 for both the East Hampton bills, for the

                 village and the town.  We obviously are in

                 disagreement and hope -- had some discussion

                 with counsel on this issue in the intervening

                 period between sessions.

                            And we hope that the counsel will

                 see matters a little differently during this

                 year on both bills.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, I believe that both these

                 bills passed unanimously or close to

                 unanimously.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes, that is

                 correct.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'll address

                 both bills, even though they're not

                 simultaneously before the house.

                            Senator LaValle, I think these are

                 just the kind of bills that, whether the

                 Governor likes them or not, ought to become

                 law.  And there's an easy way for us to do

                 that:  just say to the Governor we think they





                                                          10298



                 should be peace officers, we're fully aware of

                 what peace officer status is, we've done it a

                 number of times throughout this state.

                            There is a growing tide, for

                 municipal liability reasons, that they have

                 peace officer status.  I have expressed

                 sometimes my frustration that we seem to be

                 doing it all willy-nilly, group by group.  But

                 nonetheless, it's the unequivocal sentiment of

                 this house that they should be peace officers.

                            I would just encourage you, if

                 these bills are vetoed this year, please bring

                 them back.  Let's override the Governor's

                 veto -- which I think is a somewhat silly

                 reason.  Let's bring those bills back to this

                 house.  And I believe you will see today that

                 there's a two-thirds majority that will stand

                 up and say we're going to make these laws

                 whether the Governor likes it or not.

                            We have tended, as I think Senator

                 LaValle's experience indicates, to, quote,

                 negotiate these bills with the Governor.  But

                 they're bills that have a strong Senate

                 sentiment behind them that we should make them

                 law regardless of what the Governor thinks.





                                                          10299



                 That's what our constitution allows us to do.

                 We should do it in this instance.

                            With all due respect, he's got 40

                 votes here.  If we have more than 40, if we

                 have 41, we ought to pass these bills into law

                 regardless of his lack of signature.

                            I'd encourage you, Senator LaValle,

                 not only to accept our yes votes but to accept

                 a vote that says we'll vote for an override on

                 these bills if the Governor vetoes them

                 because he doesn't like the rising incidence

                 of peace officer status.  That's not reason

                 enough to justify it to me.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wish to speak on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10300



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1280, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Thiele, Assembly Print Number

                 6145, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, an explanation has been requested by

                 Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, this is the same bill for the

                 Village of East Hampton, and this would allow

                 peace officers to issue appearance tickets.

                            The difference with code

                 enforcement officers, really, they have no

                 more standing than a normal, ordinary citizen.

                 And so, as you had indicated in the prior

                 bill, this has an additional piece to

                 indemnify when a person has peace officer

                 status in the actions that they take.





                                                          10301



                            So this would again give the peace

                 officers the ability to issue appearance

                 tickets to enforce the codes in the laws

                 within the municipality.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you for

                 the explanation from Senator LaValle.

                            I'd simply point out for the record

                 that Senator Montgomery, Senator Duane, and

                 Senator Hevesi voted against this bill the

                 last time around.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator Dollinger.

                            Any other Senator wishing to speak

                 on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Montgomery recorded in the

                 negative.





                                                          10302



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1284, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8952, an act to amend

                 the Public Service Law.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    An

                 explanation has been requested, Senator

                 Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            The bill before us this afternoon

                 amends the Public Service Law and provides for

                 an expedited proceeding when applying for an

                 application to repower or site an electrical

                 generating facility.

                            As my colleagues will remember, it

                 was two years ago that we made amendments to

                 Article 10 establishing a one-year time frame

                 during which a decision has to be made.  And

                 within that one-year time frame, you have the

                 ability to extend an additional six months.

                            What this bill does is takes

                 circumstances where either we are repowering a





                                                          10303



                 plant and thereby reducing the emissions

                 significantly, the threshold being a minimum

                 of 75 percent, or we are relocating a facility

                 on an existing -- on the site of an existing

                 facility, again achieving emissions reductions

                 of at least 75 percent.

                            In those instances, the siting

                 procedure has to be completed with a decision

                 within a six-month time frame, so we're

                 reducing it from one year to six months.  And

                 it also allows an extension of three months.

                 So we're reducing six-month extension to a

                 three-month extension.

                            The intent is frankly relatively

                 simple.  It is to provide an incentive to

                 build new capacity, to put that capacity

                 online where it replaces existing capacity

                 where we will have a significant reduction in

                 emissions, thereby improving the air quality.

                            Let me also say that it is not the

                 intent to exclude any new generation of plants

                 from repowering.  They would follow the normal

                 procedure, since they may not be a position to

                 achieve a reduction of 75 percent.  But

                 new-generation plants certainly could achieve





                                                          10304



                 improvements.  And that being the case, they

                 would utilize the existing procedure.

                            So this is really targeted and

                 focused at older, old-generation facilities

                 that tend to be the facilities with the

                 highest levels of emission, the facilities

                 that we are currently using to meet our

                 capacity requirements.  And it would certainly

                 be in the interest of all parties to replace

                 that capacity with new generation.

                            As evidence of that, we can point

                 to memorandums of support from both the EPL as

                 well as the American Lung Association.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Onorato.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Onorato, on the bill.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    I'd like to

                 congratulate and thank Senator Wright for

                 putting this bill forward.  I represent the

                 district in Queens County that provides the

                 City of New York currently with about

                 48 percent of its current power.  With some of





                                                          10305



                 the new plants being proposed, we'll be able

                 to provide over 60 percent of the total power

                 needed in the City of New York.

                            This bill is certainly a step in

                 the right direction, and one of the things

                 that we have been stressing time and time

                 again regarding the old, grandfathered plants

                 that are currently operating at a much higher

                 rate of pollution than the newer plants are.

                 And while this will give them an incentive to

                 upgrade their plants, it does not mandate it

                 currently.

                            And I'm looking forward that,

                 giving them the opportunity to take the steps

                 on their own, that they will do so.  But if

                 they don't, that I hope we will revisit this

                 legislation and make it necessary for them to

                 comply in the future.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the





                                                          10306



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1287, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5626, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law and the Public

                 Health Law.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Please lay

                 that aside temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, please call up Calendar Number

                 1220.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity at the desk.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1220, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5523, an

                 act authorizing the assessor of the County of





                                                          10307



                 Nassau.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity at the desk, Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Move to

                 accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is made to accept the message of

                 necessity.  All in favor will say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 opposed say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message of necessity has been accepted.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Announce the results.





                                                          10308



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Are there any

                 substitutions at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there are.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Can we make

                 them at this time, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 10,

                 Senator Volker moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8529

                 and substitute it for the identical Senate

                 Bill Number 2835, Third Reading Calendar 241.

                            On page 13, Senator Farley moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 1736 and substitute it





                                                          10309



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3129,

                 Third Reading Calendar 370.

                            On page 15, Senator Saland moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 5026A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4231,

                 Third Reading Calendar 413.

                            On page 16, Senator Morahan moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7733B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4023B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 451.

                            On page 29, Senator Fuschillo moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 4955 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2586,

                 Third Reading Calendar 759.

                            On page 30, Senator Fuschillo moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 4042A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4758A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 778.

                            On page 30, Senator Fuschillo moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 6061A and substitute it





                                                          10310



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4759A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 779.

                            On page 30, Senator Saland moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7752 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5144,

                 Third Reading Calendar 785.

                            On page 36, Senator Larkin moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 6527 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3405,

                 Third Reading Calendar 919.

                            On page 38, Senator Volker moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 2149 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1092,

                 Third Reading Calendar 959.

                            And on page 42, Senator Spano moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3884 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5330,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1189.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitutions accepted.

                            Senator Duane.





                                                          10311



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  I was hoping to have unanimous

                 consent to vote no on the following pieces of

                 legislation, which I'll do slowly:  Number

                 1264, that's S5589; 1267, that's S5595; 1268,

                 that's S5596; 1275, S5646; Number 1277, S5656;

                 1279, S3179; 1280, S3180; and 1284, S5443.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so ordered.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please take up Calendar

                 Number 1288.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1288.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1288, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5627,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Madam





                                                          10312



                 President, this is an issue that this house

                 has discussed and debated before.  This bill,

                 as I had said in my remarks previously, is one

                 in which our government, that is formed to

                 protect the health, safety and welfare of

                 people, really allows us to help people be

                 pro-family, to have a family.

                            Today there are many couples who

                 for a variety of reasons are marrying later

                 and are trying to start a family later in

                 life.  This bill would require that every

                 group or blanket health insurance policy that

                 is delivered or issued in the state of

                 New York provide medical coverage for

                 physician services, hospital, surgical, major

                 medical or similar comprehensive type

                 coverage.  And it must also include coverage

                 for the diagnosis and the treatment of

                 infertility.

                            Such coverage would be subject to

                 annual copayments, coinsurance, and

                 deductibles which the contracts or policies

                 provide for other diseases.

                            Additionally, this bill would

                 require that a person be insured for 12 months





                                                          10313



                 before receiving such coverage, and a $60,000

                 lifetime limit on benefits would be imposed.

                 Prescription drugs, however, would not be

                 subject to this lifetime cap.

                            It should be noted that this bill

                 would provide that certain procedures -- and

                 we had discussed this before on this floor -

                 such as the reversal of sterilization,

                 reversal of sex-change operations, cloning or

                 sperm or egg retrieval from deceased

                 individuals would not be covered.  However, if

                 a deceased individual had provided for prior

                 approval, then the use of sperm or eggs from a

                 deceased individual would be approved.

                            This bill would permit religious

                 and denominational employers and health

                 insurance providers to be exempt from the

                 mandates of this bill if such mandates would

                 be contrary to the religious tenets of such

                 religious or denominational entity.

                            This is the conscience clause.  And

                 this was discussed at great length and seemed

                 to be a major point of contention for many of

                 the members in this house.

                            I must say, in the intervening





                                                          10314



                 months, in discussion with staff, we tried to

                 think outside of the box and talked also to

                 people who had objections to this particular

                 provision.  There are many people who said it

                 was important to them that access for all

                 people was something that they sought.

                            And so we went to work and said how

                 can we achieve this, how could we recognize

                 constitutional rights not to trample or impede

                 upon one's religious beliefs, whether they be

                 personal or institutional, and yet at the same

                 time provide for coverage.

                            And so what we established was a

                 New York State infertility health insurance

                 pool.  We have used this device in other

                 circumstances, whether it be for med-mal

                 insurance, auto insurance, to provide the

                 ability of people to be able to get coverage.

                            And so the way this really works is

                 that the religious organization would indicate

                 that this was contrary to their belief.  They

                 would go to the insurance company that is

                 providing general coverage for their employees

                 and say, We have a problem with providing this

                 coverage.  The insurance company would then





                                                          10315



                 make application to the Superintendent of

                 Insurance.  And at that juncture, the

                 Superintendent of Insurance would then contact

                 each of those individuals and tell them that

                 they would be entitled to and have available

                 to them coverage, infertility coverage.

                            And so we believe that we have

                 bridged a gap, have put forth a balance, as I

                 have said, and I can't say it enough, to both

                 recognize and not trample on one's religious

                 beliefs but at the same time to ensure that

                 individuals, couples in our state would have

                 available to them infertility coverage.

                            This legislation also, as we have

                 discussed -- and this is, by the way -- this

                 is, what I have just discussed, the creation

                 of the infertility pool insurance pool is

                 really the major change in this bill.  We have

                 really mirrored in every other way the

                 legislation that had been discussed and

                 debated on this floor and we have, as I have

                 said, made sure that access is provided.

                            This bill and all its provisions

                 would take effect on October 1, 2001, and

                 would sunset on October 1 in the year 2003.





                                                          10316



                            Madam President, that is the

                 explanation on the bill that is before this

                 house.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you, Senator LaValle.

                            Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President, will Senator LaValle yield for a

                 couple of questions?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, will you yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, you

                 and I, I think, had a strong debate about this

                 bill and its science and the technology and

                 the cost and other issues behind this bill the

                 last time around.

                            I want to focus my attention on the

                 pool concept and how it's going to work.

                 Since I have to commend you, Senator LaValle,

                 you -- the best I can tell, you did think

                 outside the box and came up with an idea that

                 I think is an interesting idea.  I want to





                                                          10317



                 make sure I understand it.  As I think I'll

                 explain later, it may not quite overcome what

                 my objection to this bill was, but let me just

                 make sure I understand it.

                            This bill sets up a pool of people

                 who request infertility coverage but who work

                 for or are connected to an organization whose

                 religious tenets are against infertility

                 treatments; is that correct?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    The answer is

                 yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Again through

                 you, Madam President, if Senator LaValle will

                 continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Approximately

                 how many people in New York would you expect

                 would be in the pool?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    We believe it

                 to be in the tens of thousands.  In other

                 words, greater than 10,000.  I can't say

                 whether it's 20,000 or 30,000, but certainly

                 more than 10,000.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if Senator LaValle will





                                                          10318



                 continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    And, Senator,

                 remember -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    I just want to

                 finish my answer to Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I withdraw

                 the question.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    You must

                 remember, Senator, that the Superintendent of

                 Insurance will be contacting individuals who

                 are employees of the religious organizations

                 that have filed with the insurance company

                 saying that they will not be providing this

                 coverage.  The insurance company contacts the

                 employees.

                            And the question that cannot be

                 quantified is we do not know whether each of

                 those employees will say, "Yes, I want the

                 coverage," and so it's very difficult to

                 determine.  We just can't take all of the

                 people who work for a religious organization

                 and say, yes, they're going to all want this

                 coverage.





                                                          10319



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    -- if Senator

                 LaValle will continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I guess,

                 then, I need to rephrase my first question.

                 The 10,000 number, the tens of thousands

                 number that you indicated, are those the

                 number of people that would be covered by

                 group policies that work for religious

                 organizations in which infertility would

                 violate the tenets of their faith, or are

                 those -

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    The answer is

                 yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And then

                 through you, Madam President, if Senator

                 LaValle will continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    How many of





                                                          10320



                 that group would you expect would then request

                 the infertility coverage?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, that's

                 why I went through that lengthy answer.  I

                 just don't know how you would quantify at this

                 time how many of those individuals who are

                 covered with a policy would execute the

                 infertility provisions.  We just don't know.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, do

                 you have an estimate -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Do you

                 wish the Senator to continue to yield, Senator

                 Dollinger?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Approximately

                 what would be the cost of this bill to provide





                                                          10321



                 infertility coverage to couples in New York

                 that needed it?  What would the annual cost be

                 to the overall insurance system in New York?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    That would be

                 the rate of increase per capita across the

                 entire state.  So that we're not just looking

                 at one region and so forth, it's on a

                 per-capita basis across the entire state.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if Senator LaValle will

                 continue to yield.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Approximately

                 how many people who do not have this coverage

                 now would utilize the $60,000 cap of expenses

                 for infertility treatment in this state under

                 this bill on an annual basis?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, since

                 this is -- should this become law, this would

                 be the first time that there would be a

                 $60,000 cap.  And therefore, again, it's

                 difficult to quantify it.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,





                                                          10322



                 Madam President, if Senator LaValle will yield

                 just to one more question.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes, I will

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I just want

                 to make sure I understand the pool concept.

                            As I understand it, all those who

                 work for religious organizations for which

                 infertility violates the tenets of their faith

                 will be placed in a pool, and then from the

                 pool, the people in the pool, they will be

                 able to elect who gets infertility coverage;

                 is that correct?  They will be able to

                 purchase the rider or participate in a rider

                 that would provide the infertility coverage?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    The first part

                 is that people will be eligible to be in the

                 pool.

                            The second part is we don't know

                 how many people will trigger, by saying, Yes,

                 I want to be in the pool -- we don't know what

                 that number is who will want this coverage.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          10323



                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if Senator LaValle will yield

                 just to one more question.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes, I will

                 yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is it fair,

                 then, to say, Senator LaValle, that what we'll

                 end up with is a pool that will be relatively

                 sizable, we will end up with a group of people

                 from that pool who will elect this coverage,

                 and that there's a very good chance that that

                 smaller subset, that smaller group will then

                 draw down extensive costs because they'll be

                 the -- I mean, they're going to select the

                 election in order to deal with infertility.

                 They will immediately begin to draw on the

                 funds out of the pool.

                            The reason why I ask, Senator

                 LaValle, is because this is an unusual use of

                 the term "pool."  Usually we put in the pools,

                 insurance pools, people who have a risk -- in

                 some cases, as you know, in our other





                                                          10324



                 insurance areas, people who may be at a higher

                 risk for needing automobile coverage or other

                 types of coverage.

                            In this case, we're going to create

                 a pool for which we will then have a group of

                 people self-select this coverage in which

                 there's a very good chance that they'll use

                 infertility coverage.  I mean, it's not a risk

                 pool.  We know they're going to use it if

                 they're in that group.  Is that a fair

                 statement?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, this

                 is a little different than an insurance pool

                 where there are greater risks in some parts of

                 the state as opposed to other parts of the

                 state.

                            Here -- and I go back to the cost

                 is based on per-capita unit across the state,

                 across the entire state.  Not taking into

                 consideration -- in other words, by setting

                 that rate you're going to look at peaks and

                 valleys across the state and set a uniform

                 rate.  So we'll be a statewide rate.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    A final

                 question for Senator LaValle if -





                                                          10325



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, thank you.  There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,

                 Madam President, if Senator LaValle would

                 yield for just one final question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator,

                 just one final question.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, in

                 the debate we had earlier on this bill we

                 talked about the cost of the treatments, the

                 success of the treatments, the ratio of the

                 success of the treatments, and the potential

                 overall cost of including infertility coverage

                 into the standard insurance policy.  And we





                                                          10326



                 had talked about the $60,000 expense, about a

                 27 percent chance of success, and that the

                 estimate of a cost increase to the overall

                 insurance system was somewhere in the 3 to 6,

                 7 percent potential range, again, depending on

                 how many people annually avail themselves of

                 this service.

                            Is there anything in this bill with

                 the pooling concept that would change any of

                 that information that you gave to me last

                 time?

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator, the

                 answer is no.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.

                            On the bill briefly, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I spoke at

                 some length about this bill last time we

                 debated it.  And seems to me that while

                 Senator LaValle, I think, has thought out of

                 the box with respect to the use of the pool

                 requirement -- it's an unusual term for a

                 pool.  It doesn't really -- it's a different





                                                          10327



                 type of pool than we may often have dealt with

                 in the insurance concept.

                            But nonetheless, I go back to what

                 I said back, I believe, in January.  And that

                 is, from my perspective these types of

                 insurance mandates that have the potential to

                 increase the cost from 3 to 8 percent have a

                 consequence of driving up the number of

                 uninsured in this state.

                            I used a simple test then, and I'll

                 use the same test now.  It's a question of how

                 effective the treatments are.  It's the number

                 of people that are going to be covered by the

                 treatment and the overall impact on the health

                 care system.

                            In this case, the cost of the

                 treatments are very, very expensive.  The

                 science is such that they're not effective

                 universally.  They only are successful,

                 Senator LaValle properly acknowledges, about

                 27 percent of the time.  There aren't -- the

                 incidence of infertility, although enormously

                 difficult for couples, is not widespread.

                 Clearly there's an incidence that I

                 understand, but the benefit of this will be





                                                          10328



                 confined to probably less than 10 percent of

                 the people in this state.  My information is

                 it may be as small as 3 or 4 percent.

                            And the final point, Madam

                 President, is that this benefit is enormously

                 expensive from the point of view of our

                 overall insurance system.  The high number is

                 about 8 percent, the low number is about 3½

                 percent.  If, as most people acknowledge, a

                 1 percent increase in premium drives up

                 additional uninsured in this state 40,000 to

                 50,000, we could, by passing this measure,

                 take the population of the uninsured up as

                 much as 300,000 just by passing this measure

                 alone.

                            For all of those reasons, I voted

                 against this bill last time.  I appreciate

                 Senator LaValle's effort to deal with the

                 conscience clause issue.  But for me, this is

                 about science, this is about cost and the cost

                 to our uninsured.  And those issues, in my

                 mind, are still significant and require that

                 this bill be voted against.

                            I thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          10329



                 Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Madam Chair, on

                 the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Lachman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    First, I want

                 to commend Senator LaValle for shepherding

                 various versions of this bill through the

                 State Senate over the last four years.

                            Secondly, and equally important, I

                 think there has been an attempt at creativity

                 to make this bill more acceptable to the

                 Assembly.

                            Now, I look upon this bill in many

                 ways.  I don't think it's fair that wealthy

                 people can have treatments for fertility that

                 poorer people and working-class people are

                 denied.  Infertility is a disease that we know

                 results from the abnormal function of the

                 reproductive system.  Infertility prevents

                 people from creating a family.

                            If one does not want to have a

                 family, that is their right and privilege.  If

                 one does want to have a family, why should

                 poor or working-class people be penalized?





                                                          10330



                            A recent Supreme Court decision

                 concluded that reproduction is a major life

                 activity, as defined by the Americans With

                 Disabilities Act.  And infertility affects all

                 people of all ethnic, racial, religious and

                 socioeconomic backgrounds.  Today, in America,

                 infertility impacts upon 6 million Americans

                 of reproductive age.  The average age is 32.

                 Furthermore, 1 out of 6 Americans cannot bear

                 a child without having some infertility drug.

                            As with other diseases, infertility

                 can lead to depression and anxiety, affecting

                 job performance and productivity.

                            Now, the question was asked by

                 Senator Dollinger about insurance coverage for

                 infertility treatment.  Today, in the United

                 States, 13 states mandate some form of

                 coverage for infertility treatment.  A 1997

                 study by benefits consultant William Mercer

                 found that the cost of including assisted

                 reproductive technology as a covered benefit

                 is $2.49 per member per year.  In

                 Massachusetts, which has the most

                 comprehensive state mandate, one insurer

                 reported that in 1993 infertility coverage





                                                          10331



                 represented only 0.4 percent of the total

                 family health insurance premium.

                            I don't know, you don't know what

                 the cost will eventually be to New York.

                 Therefore, I also commend you for having a

                 prototype trial period for two years, when we

                 can then reevaluate the entire situation.

                            Insurance coverage for infertility

                 allows the use of the most appropriate

                 procedures.  Most infertility treatment is not

                 in-vitro fertilization, and that's a very

                 important thing to realize.  I mean, even

                 middle-class people can't afford $10,000,

                 $12,000 a year for IVF.  The vast majority of

                 treatments for infertility are far, far less

                 expensive.  I look upon this bill as giving a

                 right to poor people that wealthy people now

                 have in America.

                            In conclusion, Madam Chairperson, I

                 would hope that the Senate leadership and the

                 Assembly leadership meet again on this bill.

                 But the changes in this bill give me the

                 realization that further accommodation might

                 be possible between the Senate version and the

                 Assembly version and that this Legislature,





                                                          10332



                 this year, will finally pass an infertility

                 bill.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Morahan.

                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I rise in support of this bill,

                 obviously.  This Thursday night I'm going to

                 attend the graduation of my first two

                 grandchildren from high school.  These two

                 children, by the grace of God and science,

                 were brought forth by infertility treatments

                 to my daughter and her husband.

                            This is an important bill for many,

                 many people in this state.  It's my

                 understanding that one out of five couples

                 have difficulty in conceiving.  And it crosses

                 all ethnic lines, all religious lines.  And to

                 merely say to people, Well, just adopt, that

                 may not fulfill the need of many, many

                 couples.

                            I want to congratulate Senator

                 LaValle and those who worked on this bill for,

                 as he said, thinking out of the box, trying to





                                                          10333



                 accommodate, trying to avoid a dogmatic war or

                 conflict, to do something that will help many

                 New Yorkers.

                            Now -- that's for the broad base of

                 the bill.  As to the science and the expense,

                 we had a bill in here the other day called

                 GE-NY-SIS.  And in that bill we talked about

                 science and health.  And we heard some very

                 moving stories on the floor of personal

                 experiences and the hope that science would

                 move forward to treat those diseases.  Because

                 as we know, while there is some success in

                 treatments, it's not all successful and not

                 everyone has a cure or a successful resolution

                 to their disease.

                            But as Senator Lachman said, this

                 is truly a disease.  And I don't know that we

                 should be saying to people, Well, we know you

                 have this disease, we know it's going to have

                 a tremendous impact on your life, your

                 lifestyle, your marriage, whatever, but the

                 science isn't all that great, it's a little

                 bit of a hit and miss, and, notwithstanding

                 that, it's too expensive.

                            Now, please understand, the





                                                          10334



                 majority of New Yorkers will be covered

                 through their insurance companies.  And

                 another point made by Senator Lachman is that

                 many people now who are in an economic class

                 that can afford these treatments, they can

                 fulfill their life's dream.  They can get a

                 cure.  But working poor people, working middle

                 class can't afford infertility treatments that

                 take us out to the nth degree of the

                 treatments.

                            And I think what's important to

                 note is that not every treatment winds up at

                 the last juncture of in vitro, which is indeed

                 the most expensive phase.  But there are drug

                 treatments, there are other infertility

                 treatments, as they phase those treatments

                 along till they have some success.

                            So I think when we talk about the

                 cost -- and if someone said, Well, the cost is

                 the issue, well, then we shouldn't do an

                 infertility bill at all.  We shouldn't be hung

                 up on a conscience clause or getting around

                 with a pool.  It ought to be, Hey, we don't

                 mandate any expensive treatments.

                            But we're going to have a women's





                                                          10335



                 health and wellness bill coming out in a few

                 minutes, at the end of this one, that's going

                 to talk about cervical cancer, that's going to

                 talk about osteoporosis, it's going to talk

                 about breast cancer, mammography treatments,

                 contraceptives.  For the most part, I think

                 that's expensive too, to mandate that to

                 everyone.

                            And it will be interesting to see

                 those Senators who vote against this bill

                 because it is expensive to vote against that

                 bill, which probably is equally expensive, and

                 I don't know that we know the full impact of

                 the cost of that bill.  And I don't know that

                 we have all the numbers of the people who will

                 be impacted by that bill.  I would think it

                 would be.  I would think it would be far, far

                 in excess of those who would avail themselves

                 of the infertility treatments.

                            So I think this bill is a good

                 bill.  I think Senator LaValle and his team

                 and those legislators working together as a

                 team came up with something that ought to

                 address the issue, afford the coverage, and

                 make it available to all at modest cost.





                                                          10336



                            And I think the Senate bill, which

                 puts a cap, versus the other house, that has

                 no cap, the Senate bill that does provide some

                 copay, that the other doesn't provide copay -

                 I think our bill is more reasonable, it's to

                 the point, gets the job done.

                            I ask sincerely that we vote for

                 this bill.  Congratulations, Senator LaValle,

                 and thank you very much from the Morahan

                 family.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    On the bill,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Briefly.

                            I don't disagree with the positive

                 elements of what Senator Lachman said about

                 this bill or Senator Morahan, but I will focus

                 on the cost.

                            And the cost, in my opinion, is

                 prohibitive.  Each time you raise medical

                 insurance rates by 1 percent in New York State

                 you drive 60,000 people off the insurance





                                                          10337



                 rolls.  We are now a state that has over

                 3 million people without any basic health

                 coverage other than the emergency room.  And

                 that's unacceptable.

                            We have to look for ways not to

                 increase the mandates, but look for ways with

                 a finite dollar -- that is a given, is a

                 premise -- look for ways to give all the

                 people of this state basic health coverage.

                 And I accordingly will be voting in the

                 negative.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank

                 you.

                            Any other Senator wishing to speak

                 on the bill?

                            Senator LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    I rise to

                 explain my vote, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect October 1, 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          10338



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            Just briefly, I want to thank my

                 counsel, Mike Kinum, and also Robert Farley,

                 who's been on loan to me by Senator Leibell.

                 And, Senator Leibell, thank you for giving Bob

                 Farley to me so that we could follow through

                 on this insurance pool concept that they

                 worked on very, very hard.

                            Early on -- and I've said this in

                 the two previous debates -- one of the charges

                 by Senator Bruno was that we balance the need

                 with the cost.  Cost was very important.  It

                 was mentioned that the Assembly bill had no

                 limits.  It was important to us to put

                 limitations.  Senator Lachman is right on

                 target when he said that the vast majority of

                 cases do not go to in-vitro fertilization.

                 They simply do not.

                            The last thing that I want to say

                 is that we will look at, there will be a

                 report to this Legislature on the cost issue.





                                                          10339



                 And so for the two-year period, I think we

                 need to ensure that individuals be able to

                 fulfill the ultimate dream of what marriage is

                 all about, and that is having a family.  And I

                 think that this two-year period is worth

                 moving forward.

                            And I feel very, very confident,

                 Senator Breslin, Senator Dollinger, that both

                 of you will be surprised by the cost figures

                 that this -- by enacting this legislation.

                            Madam President, I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    You will

                 be recorded in the affirmative, Senator

                 LaValle.

                            Anyone else?

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1288 are

                 Senators Breslin, Brown, Connor, Dollinger,

                 Duane, Hassell-Thompson, Kuhl, McGee, Meier,

                 Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Sampson,

                 Schneiderman, Seward, M. Smith, Stachowski,

                 and Stavisky.

                            Ayes, 40.  Nays, 18.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10340



                 is passed.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam

                 President, could we please take up the

                 Supplemental Calendar Number 2.  And I would

                 ask for a noncontroversial reading of that

                 calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 604, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4560A, an

                 act to amend Chapter 331 of the Laws of 2000.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Madam

                 President, is there a message of necessity at

                 the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    And while I

                 have you, Madam President, I'd like to call an

                 immediate meeting of the Committee on Finance.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Committee





                                                          10341



                 on Finance in the Senate Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    In the Senate

                 Majority Conference Room, thank you.

                            Move to accept the message of

                 necessity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All those in favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 632, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried -





                                                          10342



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 I rise to request that we pause for a moment.

                 We don't have the bills.  They have not yet

                 been provided to us.  And we can lay every

                 bill aside, or we can wait until we have the

                 bills before we continue with the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi, all these bills are from your regular

                 calendar, if you will look at your -

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    These are on the

                 Supplemental List Number 2.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    If

                 you'll look in your calendar books, they're

                 there, all there.

                            Senator Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Again, Senator

                 Hevesi, for your information, they're in the

                 calendar in front of you.  Everyone should

                 have them on their desk.

                            This is an active list, not a Rules

                 report.  An active list, not a Rules report.

                            Thank you very much, Madam





                                                          10343



                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 632.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 632, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

                 Assembly Print Number 7184, an act to amend

                 Chapter 640 of the Laws of 1997.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 638, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 357C, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 creating.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

                 President, is there a message of necessity at

                 the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    I would move to

                 accept the message of necessity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.





                                                          10344



                 All in favor will say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 733, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4251A, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Is there a





                                                          10345



                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    I would move to

                 accept the message of necessity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All those in favor will say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Those

                 opposed will say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number





                                                          10346



                 778, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print Number

                 4042A, an act to authorize.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 779, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print Number

                 6061A, an act to authorize.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 804, by Member of the Assembly Eve, Assembly

                 Print Number 5242A, an act to amend the State

                 Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce





                                                          10347



                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 961, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1963B, an

                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Balboni.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    I move to

                 accept the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All in favor will say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 opposed will say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.





                                                          10348



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1025, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5303A,

                 an act in relation to allowing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All in favor will say aye.





                                                          10349



                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed

                 will say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is accepted.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect -

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1064, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4654A,

                 an act to establish the Baldwin-West End Canal

                 Improvement District.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is a message of necessity at the desk.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity





                                                          10350



                 at the desk.  All in favor will say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Those

                 opposed will say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is accepted.

                            There is a home rule message at the

                 desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1065, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4655A,

                 an act to -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator





                                                          10351



                 Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk, Madam

                 President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 Senator, there is a message at the desk.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is made to accept the message of

                 necessity at the desk.  All those in favor of

                 accepting this motion will answer aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All

                 opposed will say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is accepted.

                            There is a home rule message at the

                 desk.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the





                                                          10352



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

                 can we at this time call up Calendar Number

                 1287.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1287.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1287, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5626, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law and the Public

                 Health Law.

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bruno, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            This bill that's before us is

                 referred to as the women's wellness bill.  And

                 this bill expands the coverage for millions of





                                                          10353



                 women here in New York State.  It covers

                 breast cancer screening, cervical cancer

                 expanded screening, accessing gynecologists

                 without referrals, osteoporosis screening that

                 afflicts 50 percent of women in New York

                 State.

                            And it also has a

                 contraceptive-by-prescription clause in it.

                 And it has a conscience clause.  And the

                 conscience clause, so-called, allows those who

                 against their religious beliefs don't want to

                 provide contraceptives.

                            One of the criticisms of the

                 previous bill that we passed in this chamber

                 was that women wouldn't have access to

                 contraceptives because of the conscience

                 clause where there was some religious

                 prohibition from the employer providing it.

                 We have, by way of compromising, changed this

                 bill so that we create access for any woman

                 that wants and needs the contraceptives by

                 paying a small monthly charge.  And that

                 monthly charge will be the same rate that the

                 employer would pay.

                            So we open up the access so that no





                                                          10354



                 one is denied the coverage that would want to

                 have the coverage.  And that is mandated that

                 that must be provided.

                            Now, we in the Senate and in this

                 house and in this Majority, with our

                 colleagues on the other side of the aisle,

                 have provided the leadership in this state on

                 almost every major women's-health piece of

                 legislation that is now law.  Like the 48-hour

                 after-birth hospital care, early detection for

                 cancer, breast reconstructive surgery, an end

                 to drive-through mastectomies.  Millions of

                 women have benefited from these efforts.

                            Now, the question comes up whether

                 or not we have agreement with the Assembly on

                 this bill.  We have no agreement on this bill

                 with the Assembly.  The Assembly has not been

                 willing to negotiate this bill because of the

                 conscience clause.  There have been no

                 discussions with them.  And many of the

                 advocates that are out there have partnered

                 with the Assembly and seen fit to be

                 nonsupportive.  And that's their decision and

                 that's their choice.

                            But I want to applaud the efforts





                                                          10355



                 of my colleagues here, especially Senators

                 Rath and Bonacic, who chaired our task force

                 that went on over the last couple of years.

                 And our chair of Health, Senator Kemp Hannon,

                 chair of Insurance, Jim Seward, and all the

                 members that served on this task force and

                 spent a lot of time, a lot of energy trying to

                 make something happen.

                            And we are here in what should be

                 the last hours of the session doing our best

                 to compromise this issue so that the women

                 that truly need this additional health

                 coverage that will prevent illness and save

                 lives can get it.

                            So before we leave here, we would

                 like to have been able to reconcile our

                 differences.  This is a sincere, honest

                 attempt do that.  And there is no reason,

                 none, why this bill should not pass the

                 Assembly, because it does all of the things

                 that those that were objecting to the previous

                 bill that we passed here, it contains all of

                 their objections.

                            And the main objective was to

                 create access for contraceptives, and we have





                                                          10356



                 managed that and handled that in a way that

                 the Catholic Church is comfortable, the Jewish

                 community is comfortable, and most of the

                 women's groups, we think, feel that this is a

                 real effort to get this done.

                            So with your support here in this

                 house, hopefully, we will pass this bill and

                 send it to the Assembly before they leave.  If

                 they pass it, this will become law, because

                 the Governor has indicated his willingness to

                 sign it.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I rise to proudly salute my

                 colleagues and thank the members of the Senate

                 Majority, specifically Senator Bruno for his

                 leadership in this area.

                            And I'm reminded at how there were

                 so many naysayers even a few months ago that

                 failed to believe this measure could come

                 forward here in the New York State Senate.

                            It is a sensible, it is a

                 reasonable, and it is an appropriate





                                                          10357



                 compromise.  We have to be reminded of the

                 fact occasionally that we have a

                 constitutional separation of church and state

                 in this country.  And although people can

                 split hairs about the different points at

                 which that separation of church and state has

                 to be analyzed, it is very clear in this area

                 there are some extremely sensitive areas.

                            And for us to require that the

                 Catholic Church as an employer be forced to

                 provide contraceptive coverage to female

                 employees who are not of the same belief would

                 be a violation of that constitutional

                 separation of church and state.

                            Notwithstanding that reality,

                 however, this Senate has come up with a

                 provision that would allow women who are

                 employed within a diocese responsibility, in a

                 diocese occupation, to obtain that coverage.

                            Now, those who are dissatisfied

                 with that provision of the bill note that

                 there would be an added cost.  Yes, there

                 would.  There would be a cost even though we

                 have attempted to minimize the cost by

                 providing that it must be at the lowest





                                                          10358



                 possible group rate.  There is, in fact, an

                 increase in cost coverage for women in that

                 unique category.

                            But the vast majority of women who

                 have been denied contraceptive coverage under

                 their insurance plans in the state would be

                 able to have that coverage at the same copay

                 they have for all other medications.

                            Now, from a purely personal

                 perspective, I will note for the record that

                 those copays are often much too high.  And in

                 some instance, the cost of the copay plus the

                 cost of the added group rate insurance

                 differential for the religious exemptions

                 might in fact come close to or equal the

                 drugstore price for contraceptives.

                            I think we all recognize that it is

                 not a perfect solution.  But, by golly, it's a

                 darn good one.  And it's an important

                 reflection on how far we have come in this

                 state recognizing women's health.

                            And while we're talking about the

                 contraceptive aspect of this bill that has

                 been a sticking point, let me rephrase

                 something that Senator Bruno said a moment





                                                          10359



                 ago, because I want people to understand from

                 a woman in this Senate who feels passionately

                 about these issues, from a woman who is here

                 precisely because she wants to see that

                 women's issues are better addressed in this

                 state and at all levels of government, I'm

                 proud of the fact that we are doing more

                 through this measure to provide early

                 detection for mammography screening, for

                 cervical cancer, for the vast array of other

                 women's health issues.

                            Let us not lose sight of the large

                 increase in attention to women's health that

                 will occur through this bill because we're

                 looking so often at the contraceptive-coverage

                 aspects of it.  This is a major breakthrough.

                 It's one that will allow us to say with great

                 pride that we care about all of the people of

                 this state, that we are not gender-blind in

                 some cases, and it also gives us a starting

                 point.  Because in future years I anticipate

                 there will be more pieces of legislation that

                 deal with insurance, that deal with the

                 differentials in copay.  We have frequently

                 tinkered in these areas.





                                                          10360



                            And to do this important measure

                 today sends a message that we value women's

                 health care, it is in fact a priority of this

                 state government, and we want all women to

                 receive that care to which they are rightfully

                 entitled.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  On the bill.

                            First of all, I'd like to commend

                 Senator Bruno, Senator Rath, Senator Hannon,

                 and Senator Seward, plus you, Madam President,

                 and Nancy Larraine Hoffmann.  All of the women

                 in our conference have contributed to the

                 piece of legislation that is before us.

                            Before I talk about this specifics

                 of the bill, I would like to classify this

                 session as outright gridlock, political

                 polarization that I have seen in the worst

                 that I have been here in 11 years.  And it's a

                 shame, because what we see happening is we

                 never have good-faith attempts from the other

                 side to negotiate women's wellness.

                            When we started the fight to try to





                                                          10361



                 improve on women's wellness, the premise was

                 that women in general were paying more for

                 their health needs not covered by insurance

                 than men.  And we said we have to do something

                 to rectify that, to bring more parity in what

                 a man and a woman pay for their health needs

                 beyond insurance coverage.

                            And we listened to the advocates,

                 and there are over a hundred women's

                 organizations in the State of New York, that

                 said breast cancer, cervical cancer, ages 40

                 to 49, very important, we want you to do

                 something about that.

                            Now, under existing law, a woman

                 age 40 to 49, unless there's a history of

                 cancer in her family, can only get insurance

                 companies to pay for mammograms once every two

                 years.  We say, under this bill, once every

                 year.  Now, 12,000 women in the state of

                 New York get cancer every year.  3500 die each

                 year.  And 70 percent of the women don't know

                 they have it until it's too late.

                            So this legislation, in detection

                 and prevention, is something that the women of

                 this state are crying out for.  And it is





                                                          10362



                 delivered in this legislation.  Cervical

                 cancer, same thing.  Now -- and by the way,

                 women get afflicted with breast cancer at five

                 to six times the rate of men.

                            Osteoporosis, not covered by our

                 health insurance policies, another area

                 identified by the women's groups.  It afflicts

                 women eight times the rate of men.  This bill

                 covers osteoporosis.  Mandated coverage.  When

                 you pay a premium for a policy, you will have

                 mammogram coverage, 40 to 49, you will have

                 osteoporosis coverage.

                            And by the way, breast cancer, the

                 leading killer of women ages 40 to 55.  Heart

                 disease generally number one, but in that age

                 group, breast cancer.

                            Now we get to the third leg of the

                 legislation, and that was the contraception

                 piece.  When this started out, it was women's

                 wellness, get the breast cancer done, get the

                 osteoporosis done, and then we went to the

                 contraception, which didn't seem -- I wouldn't

                 say as important, but not as vital as the

                 others.

                            So we came up with a piece of





                                                          10363



                 legislation knowing that there is a

                 constitutional right of religious freedom,

                 that there were religious organizations out

                 there that said, We shouldn't have to pay for

                 something we don't believe in.  So this Senate

                 said we're going to cover contraception but

                 for those religious employers there would be

                 an exemption.

                            Now, under that legislation, which

                 this house passed on January 23rd, it affected

                 3.2 million women, approximately, in the state

                 of New York.  The others are not covered

                 because they're in ERISA plans or they're

                 uninsured.  So this legislation, for the women

                 that are covered by it, came to 3.2 million.

                            The women's advocates came forward

                 and said, There's some women we're leaving

                 behind.  And then there was conflict as to

                 what the numbers were.  We talked about and I

                 talked about the IRS qualifications as to who

                 would qualify.  We talked about the Catholic

                 directory.  And we came up with a number of

                 less than 3 percent of the women would not be

                 covered of that 3.2 million.

                            And the opponents said, No woman





                                                          10364



                 shall be left behind.  I can remember that as

                 a knockout punch.  And we don't care about all

                 the good benefits, but we're not going to

                 abandon one woman.

                            Okay, we went back to the drawing

                 board.  And we came up with this legislation

                 that preserves the integrity of the religious

                 freedom clause and now says not one woman will

                 be left behind, every woman of that

                 3.2 million will have access to contraception.

                 It will cost a little bit more, because

                 they'll have to get a rider, and it was

                 estimated $8 to $10.

                            Now, some of those small opponents

                 are saying it's not enough, you're

                 discriminating because it's costing them a

                 little bit more money, $8 to $10, and with the

                 copay.  And we don't determine copays,

                 employers determine that.  And depending on

                 the business and the health menu selection,

                 they decide what's covered.  We don't do that.

                 So a copay can range from $5 to $20.

                            So it's an affordability issue.

                 And that is true.  It will be a little

                 expensive for that woman, for that 3 percent





                                                          10365



                 that work for an organization that has a

                 religious objection.

                            I can't get the Assembly to sit

                 down and talk about this bill.  And I want you

                 to know, and I'll say it again, 3500 women a

                 year die from cancer.  And probably we could

                 save about 1100, that's what our board of

                 health says, if we had early detection.

                            So while we play, while we're in

                 gridlock, while we're in political

                 polarization, women are dying because the

                 Assembly fails to come to the table, like this

                 and a host of many other things.

                            And I'm coming to the conclusion.

                 And, you know, it's tough for me to say this,

                 but they'd rather have the issue for politics

                 rather than do something good for the women of

                 the state of New York.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Well, here we are again with this

                 bill in front of us.  What's happened since





                                                          10366



                 the last time we had a women's health bill in

                 front of us?  A few things.  We've had a

                 conference committee.  And I want to thank

                 Senator Bruno for his confidence and for his

                 leadership and willingness to go forward with

                 the Assembly.  I want to thank the Assembly

                 leader and the members of the persons in the

                 Assembly who served on the conference

                 committee, and my colleagues Senators Bonacic

                 and Seward and Hannon who served with me on

                 the conference committee.

                            It was an attempt to get somewhere

                 that didn't happen.  We closed it down because

                 we could not come to an accommodation and an

                 agreement.  We had lots of conversation, we

                 learned a lot about each other.  I thought we

                 made a lot of progress, frankly.  There were a

                 number of fronts that we were either very

                 close on or had that we had virtual agreement.

                 And I think Senator Bonacic clearly stated

                 many of them; Senator Hoffmann very

                 articulately and clearly stated the purposes

                 and some of the places that we had arrived at

                 in our good-faith effort.  But we couldn't

                 complete it, so we shut it down.





                                                          10367



                            But going back to why we even got

                 that far, the Senate passed a bill in January,

                 we passed a bill.  It was the first time we

                 had passed this bill.  We had the conference

                 committee, and it did not go forward, we shut

                 it down.

                            Then we talked about dividing the

                 bill.  We talked about two bills, maybe a bill

                 that covered all the kinds of things that we

                 thought we were close to agreement on and that

                 we would be able to move forward with the

                 Assembly and send to the Governor, the kind of

                 items that Senator Bonacic just talked

                 about -- the kinds of coverage for mammography

                 and cervical screening and osteoporosis and

                 the dramatic need in New York State for

                 additional coverage.  We've been talking about

                 this for a long time.  We know that need.

                 It's clear that we need to move forward in

                 that area.

                            But we were advised by the

                 advocates that dividing this bill was not the

                 thing to do.  And we backed off.  We said

                 we'll leave the bill together and we'll try to

                 improve the bill.  And that's exactly what we





                                                          10368



                 did, because you wanted us to do that.  And

                 that's what we did.

                            But it still wasn't enough.  It's

                 not enough today.  We've got dinosaurs in the

                 lobby making fun of the bill, making it look

                 silly.  I don't think the women of New York

                 State expect us to look silly.  I don't think

                 that they expect that of you who are out there

                 advocating on their behalf and those of us who

                 are elected to serve on behalf of the

                 interests that we represent in our districts.

                            And, frankly, it saddens me.  It

                 really saddens me.  Because if we had divided

                 that bill, we could have passed a large

                 portion of it that had nothing as

                 controversial as the conscience clause in it.

                 Senator Bonacic very clearly went through the

                 fact that 97 percent of the women who would be

                 eligible for this coverage would be covered

                 with contraceptive coverage, with the services

                 of the contraceptive clause in this bill.

                            We've made allowances for the other

                 3 percent.  Granted, there's a small cost.

                 Are we finished with trying to find if people

                 that can't afford that $8 to $10 a month, if





                                                          10369



                 they can't afford it, can we help them?  I

                 don't know.  I don't know what the future

                 holds for that part of this particular issue.

                            But now the Senate has passed a

                 bill in January, we backed off of dividing the

                 bill because we were told that wasn't good, we

                 didn't divide the bill.  We are about, I

                 believe, to pass another bill.  And you know

                 what?  We're going to be told again it's not

                 enough.

                            Well, again, that makes me feel

                 very badly.  Because someone used the words a

                 few minutes ago a "good-faith attempt."  Any

                 of you here who have ever been involved in a

                 successful relationship of any kind know that

                 there are some things that you have to do.

                 You have to have confidence in the people that

                 you're with in this relationship, you have to

                 trust them, that their motives are good and

                 that they're trying to do the right thing, and

                 you have to be willing to compromise.

                            You can't pit the children against

                 the mother and expect the father to cave.  You

                 can't pit the father against the children and

                 expect the mother to cave.  It doesn't work





                                                          10370



                 that way in my household; I don't think it

                 works that way in your household.  Because the

                 mother and father eventually figure out that

                 the kids are trying to work a deal, and the

                 mother and father say, "Okay, kids, go to your

                 rooms, all bets are off, we've figured out

                 what you're trying to do and it's not going to

                 happen."

                            That's the kind of confidence

                 that's in a marriage between mother and father

                 when the kids are trying to figure out a way

                 to make something happen.  You can't do it.

                 It's not right.  You try to do the right

                 thing.

                            We've tried to do the right thing

                 here in this Senate.  The Assembly has tried

                 to do the right thing.  They care about how

                 they are trying to make this happen, leaving

                 no woman behind, as Senator Bonacic has said.

                 We're trying to leave no woman behind.  But

                 what we need to do is to move forward, in my

                 opinion, with some confidence, some trust and

                 willingness to compromise.  To play one side

                 against the other is not really an appropriate

                 measure in a trusting and willing





                                                          10371



                 relationship.

                            I hope that that relationship can

                 change, that we can trust each other and have

                 some confidence that we're trying to do the

                 right thing for the women of the state of

                 New York, as well as some others who have

                 different viewpoints on it.  But I think we

                 need to move forward on this, and I hope that

                 you all will support this.

                            And I urge you to consider how many

                 people will be affected by a bill that is

                 vastly different from what we started with in

                 January.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Mendez.

                            SENATOR MENDEZ:    Madam President,

                 I first want to congratulate Senator Bruno and

                 the task force -- if I understand correctly,

                 chaired by Senator Bonacic -- on presenting

                 this bill here today.  What the bill does

                 already has been stated and articulated

                 wonderfully well.

                            I was lobbied by family planning in

                 an effort to convince me to vote against this





                                                          10372



                 bill, and I told them that the bottom line is

                 that all those services that all these women

                 need so very badly and that they are so

                 expensive, are we going to throw them out the

                 window because they are not getting -- only

                 3 percent of the women are not getting a

                 little -- are not getting the contraceptives?

                            I mean, in terms of the balance, I

                 think it would be a very callous thing if an

                 agreement is not achieved to prevent all those

                 women that suffer from cancer -- and as a

                 cancer survivor myself, I resent enormously

                 that a situation that could be compromised for

                 the benefit of all the women in the state of

                 New York to benefit from those services

                 that -- health services that in fact will be

                 saving their lives.  And because a small

                 number, 3 percent, are not covered by

                 contraceptives because religious organizations

                 do not want to push for something that runs

                 against the grain of their beliefs, I think

                 that in the balance of justice and

                 consideration it would be a very terrible

                 thing to do.

                            So I hope that the Assembly and the





                                                          10373



                 Senate will get together.  This compromise, I

                 believe, is a good one.  And I don't see any

                 reason on earth why it cannot be accepted by

                 the parties concerned.  What should be placed

                 in the front burner is not political

                 partisanship, not political rhetoric, but what

                 this really means, which is the health of the

                 women of the state of New York.

                            I support this bill.  Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Well, to

                 present the opposing view.

                            And I must say I'm very concerned

                 about the health of the women of this state.

                 And like Senator Mendez, I also am a survivor

                 of breast cancer.  So I can't say it doesn't

                 have an important impact for me.

                            But I have to discuss why I am not

                 supporting this bill.  And it isn't that I

                 distrust the motives of Senator Bonacic or

                 Senator Rath.  I think they're trying their

                 darnedest to move this legislation.  And it

                 does have many beneficial benefits to the





                                                          10374



                 women of this state.

                            But there's a couple of things that

                 I have trouble countenancing, and I have to

                 discuss that.  It maintains financial

                 barriers, as I said the last time this bill

                 was -- a similar bill was before us.  Not as

                 good a bill as this bill, but this bill is,

                 while heading in the right direction, still

                 not a good enough bill.

                            There are financial barriers as far

                 as accessing mammograms and Pap smears,

                 because we still require copays and

                 deductibles.  It also contains a more

                 restrictive definition for bone density

                 screening than is in the Assembly bill.  That

                 is the osteoporosis screening.

                            I think one of the things that

                 distresses me the most in the bill is that it

                 definitely treats women -- definitely,

                 definitely treats them differently than men.

                 And it's not only the copay, it's also the

                 rider.  Right now women pay perhaps $8 to $10

                 per month, or would have to pay $8 to $10 per

                 month for the rider.  Now, right now, when

                 they buy their prescription for contraception,





                                                          10375



                 they're copaying about $20.  Now, that means

                 they're ending up saving very little, maybe $2

                 per month.

                            Now, what do they give up for that

                 $2 saving per month?  They give up their right

                 to privacy on their very private reproductive

                 decisions.  Why is that?  Because now the

                 employer will know what those decisions are.

                 It is such a small savings to the woman to

                 disclose this kind of information to her

                 employer.  The employer has no right to know

                 what a woman's decision is, either to take

                 contraception or to stop taking contraception

                 and get pregnant.

                            I find this a fatal flaw.  And I

                 hope we will continue to work on this bill,

                 because I do see the need for the various

                 coverages that are offered by the bill.  But

                 because of the fatal flaw, I will not be

                 supporting it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I will

                 yield to Senator Bonacic if he needs to

                 respond at this time.





                                                          10376



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I was wondering

                 if Senator Oppenheimer would yield to a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Oppenheimer, do you yield?

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Absolutely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    You mentioned

                 your concern with the woman's right to

                 privacy.  This legislation allows her to

                 retain her right to privacy.  Nowhere in this

                 legislation does her employer know that she is

                 accessing or utilizing contraception.  That's

                 between her insurance company, her HMO, and

                 her.

                            And as you know, we are under the

                 limits, today it's the law, of maintaining a

                 right of privacy between HMOs, the insurance

                 company, and the employee.

                            So I don't know where you got that

                 idea about privacy.  If you want to point it

                 out to me in the bill, I'll gladly -- I don't





                                                          10377



                 think it's in there.  So I only ask you that

                 question.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    If Senator

                 Bonacic would yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes, of course.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    How is the

                 employee going to pay for the health

                 insurance?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Okay, you said

                 two things.  You said the women would have to

                 pay more for contraceptive coverage.  The

                 women we're talking about are not the

                 3.1 million women that don't come under the

                 conscience clause.  That's part of their

                 policy, so there's no extra charge for them.

                            We're talking about that percentage

                 that would be a religious employer.  And our

                 numbers are anywhere from 50,000 to 90,000 of

                 those women.

                            Now, let's take those women.  Under

                 this bill, that HMO or that insurance company





                                                          10378



                 that that Catholic employer would work with

                 has to have a rider.  They must have a rider

                 to allow every employee the right to exercise

                 that rider privately with their HMO or

                 insurance company.  The employer is not in

                 that line of communication under this

                 legislation.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    If Senator

                 Bonacic would yield for another question.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I would.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    The rider

                 is going to cost additionally over the basic

                 amount of the insurance that is offered to all

                 employees.  So that those women choosing to

                 take contraception coverage through the rider

                 will be paying an additional amount each

                 month.

                            Is this not -- here's the

                 question -- is this not going to be paid by or

                 out of their wages so that it would be visibly

                 seen as an additional amount and therefore

                 easily determined to be the rider?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    The answer to

                 that is the woman who works for the religious

                 organization that exercises the rider will pay





                                                          10379



                 more money than a woman that doesn't work for

                 a religious organization.

                            But my questions to you are on the

                 issue of privacy.  And you said that -- you

                 used the word generically "women."  But it's

                 not true, because 3.1 million women are not

                 going to be involved with the rider.  It's

                 going to be part of their package, and they're

                 not going to -- it's going to be a mandated

                 coverage, and they will never have to get

                 involved with a rider.  That was my point.

                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    And I will

                 stand corrected in being so general in my

                 statement.  Really, I was referring to those

                 women who work for organizations where this is

                 not provided as part of the basic insurance.

                            My point that I was trying to make

                 about privacy is that in those cases where the

                 female employee of an institution that does

                 not cover contraception as part of their basic

                 package, in those institutions the employee

                 will have the medical-expenses insurance costs

                 paid out of her salary.

                            And since it is a rider, it will be

                 an additional amount paid to the insurance





                                                          10380



                 company than all the other employees will be

                 paying, be it $8 a month.  But it will show up

                 very visibly in the additional amount that the

                 rider costs, and therefore the amount that

                 will be paid to the insurance company will be

                 quite visible.

                            And so those women that are taking

                 the rider will have that additional charge

                 on -- deducted from their salary for their

                 insurance coverage.  That is why I say that

                 the employer will know what the decision is

                 that that woman is making, either when to use

                 contraception and when to stop and have a

                 pregnancy.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    There's a number

                 of things I could say on this, but I just want

                 to address myself to this whole point of the

                 drugs.

                            With all due respect to Senator

                 Oppenheimer, I think she's dead wrong.  And I

                 think this whole argument is a total red

                 herring, trying to do what people would rather

                 do, which is preserve an issue instead of





                                                          10381



                 coming to agreement and getting a benefit to

                 the women of this state.

                            Now, why do I say that?  For two or

                 three reasons.  First of all, under every

                 comprehensive policy that we regulate in this

                 state -- and that means there are a number

                 that are not regulated by the state government

                 but are regulated by the federal government.

                 Those are called the ERISA plans.  We're

                 preempted from dealing with that.

                            So let's just talk about the ones

                 we can regulate.  Guess how they treat drugs?

                 It's an optional coverage.  It's not a

                 mandate.  It's not a mandate.  If the employer

                 wants to cover it.  They do.  If they don't,

                 they don't.  Because we have employer, you

                 know, sponsored insurance in this state.  It's

                 not a mandate.

                            We can't force the employer to give

                 insurance.  That's what the whole debate is

                 for Children's Health Plus, Family Health

                 Plus, expanding Medicaid, because we're trying

                 to get more people covered.

                            So we first of all have to realize

                 we're trying to get people -- leading them





                                                          10382



                 down the path to do good things.  And if we

                 don't do it correctly, they can just opt out.

                            So the basic structure here which

                 Senator Bonacic has constructed of getting

                 coverage for women is a way to try to balance

                 the interests so we will get all of the women

                 with an opportunity to access this coverage.

                            Second, frankly, your argument

                 about privacy is a real red herring.  You try

                 to say the opt-out somehow creates a paper

                 trail.  What you don't realize is most

                 employers will keep track of what drugs you

                 use.  And the best employers make sure that's

                 kept private in a human resource division.  So

                 that somebody who is covered by the mandate

                 for contraception, that record is kept.

                            And I will tell you something else.

                 I'm not so sure it's as sensitive as it used

                 to be.  Society has changed.

                            We ought to be concerned, perhaps,

                 about some other things in drug use that would

                 be more sensitive, because we've had

                 revolutions to benefit people in regard to the

                 coverage of mental illness.  Depression,

                 schizophrenia can now be treated beneficially





                                                          10383



                 to help people be productive and work.  That

                 would seem to me, in terms of society's mores

                 that go on in the year 2001, to be a lot more

                 sensitive as to whether someone opts to have

                 contraception.

                            So I think we're dealing with red

                 herrings.  What's really being done here?

                 These are interesting arguments, but we have

                 to look at what's going on with this bill.

                 We're extending coverage.

                            And you bring up the other point,

                 and it's probably one of the most boring

                 things, but I brought it up during the

                 conference committee, and it was the question

                 of, well, copays, are we creating barriers?

                 We did some research on it, and we came up

                 with a federal study done through the National

                 Institute of Health, and they found out that

                 with copays it created a sense of benefit,

                 that there was a greater utilization of

                 mammograms, that there was more regular

                 appointments kept.  And, yes, they put it on

                 the sliding scale, but they found it was a

                 benefit to it, not a barrier.

                            Once again, just another





                                                          10384



                 illustration where the facts of delivering

                 health care services I think are met by what

                 we have proposed as a piece of legislation.

                 And the arguments by people who for some

                 reason don't want to come to an agreement

                 remain to me of a greater puzzle and a greater

                 puzzle.  Because I think what we have done is

                 come to a major advance.

                            And I thank Senators Bonacic and

                 Rath for having led the way on this.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If the sponsor would yield

                 for a few brief questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic, will you yield?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            There appears to be some confusion

                 as to actually how this bill would operate in

                 practice for someone who is, say, a woman who





                                                          10385



                 works as a clerk or a janitor or a professor,

                 say, at, you know, a Catholic university or

                 something like that who wants to avail herself

                 of contraceptive coverage.

                            What would that person do, what

                 notice would she receive, and what steps would

                 she have to take?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Let's assume

                 it's a Catholic university, she's a professor,

                 and the Catholic university contracts with

                 Aetna or an HMO for all of the health

                 benefits.  But they say, We're not paying for

                 that professor for contraception.  Okay?

                            The Superintendent of Insurance

                 would require that HMO or that insurance

                 company to have a rider to their plan.  And

                 that insurance company or HMO, when that plan

                 goes into existence, probably January 1, 2002,

                 to make everything uniform statewide, she

                 would be notified, every employee in that

                 Catholic university would be notified that you

                 have the option to exercise a rider for

                 contraception coverage at a price of.

                            That's how it would work.  She

                 would notify them, and then she would have





                                                          10386



                 that coverage.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Madam President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So then

                 the employee would directly deal with, in this

                 hypothetical case, the insurance company.  And

                 then, as Senator Oppenheimer was discussing,

                 would the amount that's withheld out of

                 paychecks be increased?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    No, there's no

                 payroll deduction.  I know that Senator

                 Oppenheimer said that.  But this is like a

                 customer would handle car insurance or house

                 insurance.  You pay directly from your

                 checkbook to have that coverage.  There's no

                 payroll deduction.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So the

                 individual would have to, in addition to

                 dealing with whatever other provisions of

                 their insurance coverage they dealt with

                 through their employer, would have to have a





                                                          10387



                 separate arrangement and write a separate

                 check annually or monthly for contraceptive

                 coverage?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    For that rider.

                 Just like you would for jewelry.  If you

                 wanted a ring covered or something, you pay

                 extra.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, I

                 think I understand how that works.

                            So every employee, if I understand

                 correctly, then, of all of the institutions

                 covered under this what to me is a very broad

                 exclusion clause, would have to have

                 individual contact with an insurance company,

                 make individual arrangements and individual

                 payments, they wouldn't have the benefit of

                 the payroll deduction in this one area?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    There's no

                 payroll deduction.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Okay.  In

                 the exclusion clause, is there any -- I don't

                 see it here -- is there any limitation that

                 would prevent this from being applied to a

                 for-profit corporation?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    It's





                                                          10388



                 irrelevant.  I mean no, the answer is no.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                 Thank the sponsor.

                            Madam President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I listened

                 with great fascination to the arguments that

                 were made.  And I think we are so deep inside

                 the spin machine that we're in danger of

                 getting dizzy.

                            This is not a bill that deals with

                 the fundamental issue that has been raised by

                 the advocates and was raised by the Assembly.

                 The issue is simply this.  This is not a

                 conscience clause.  This is a conscience

                 usurpation clause.  People have consciences.

                 People have religious beliefs.  Insurance

                 companies do not have consciences.

                 Corporations do not have consciences.  HMOs do

                 not have consciences.  Even our beloved alma

                 mater, the university, does not have a

                 conscience.

                            The notion that this is a

                 conscience clause, the rhetoric suggesting it





                                                          10389



                 is a conscience clause I think is at the heart

                 of the problem of getting a law passed in both

                 houses.  This is very simply the problem.

                            This exclusion, this

                 conscience-usurpation clause is so broad that

                 any employer with the remotest connection -

                 and it does use the words, in fact, "in

                 connection with a religious institution."

                 This means some -- a joint venture, a

                 for-profit corporation that's a joint venture

                 of Fordham University and IBM?  This is the

                 broadest exclusion clause that I am familiar

                 with, and I've reviewed quite a few of these.

                            The difficulty here is that it

                 creates two classes of women, two classes of

                 employees in this state in this bizarre effort

                 to promote the notion that corporations and

                 institutions have consciences.  I think that

                 this is something that I would appreciate

                 hearing a coherent response to at some point.

                            I have religious beliefs, employees

                 have religious beliefs.  No one is telling

                 someone who is a devoted Catholic:  You have

                 to get contraceptives.  You make the decision

                 for yourself.  You have a conscience.  But if





                                                          10390



                 you are an employee and you're working at

                 Columbia University and then you transfer to

                 be a professor at Fordham University, why on

                 earth should you fall into this second-tier

                 category of women who are discriminated

                 against just because their employers have some

                 connection, however remote, to a religious

                 institution?

                            The advocates have not said we want

                 to make, you know, churches, religious

                 institutions whose primary purpose, and I

                 gather in canon law there's some expression

                 that is "the inculcation of the faith,"

                 subject to this sort of a provision.  We're

                 talking about everything else.

                            If you're working for the Goddard

                 Riverside Community Center or St. Mary's

                 Community Center, you shouldn't have this type

                 of discrimination imposed on you.  If you're

                 working at New York Hospital or St. Peter's

                 Hospital, you shouldn't have this kind of

                 discrimination imposed on you.  Your

                 conscience as an individual should not be

                 usurped by an institution or a corporation.

                            And I think that if we're going to





                                                          10391



                 be serious about this -- and we're here at the

                 last days of session, and my colleagues on the

                 other side of the aisle have raised the issue

                 of the negotiations with the Assembly and the

                 history of this bill.  One great, important

                 piece of the history of this legislation was

                 left out of this story.  Senator Bonacic has a

                 wonderful bill he was the sponsor of last year

                 that had no conscience-usurpation clause, that

                 had no exclusion clause.  Same as the bill in

                 the Assembly.  There were lots of Republican

                 sponsors on that bill.

                            Put that bill on the floor.  Put

                 that bill on the floor.  That will pass.  That

                 will pass the Assembly.

                            The way this is going to be

                 resolved, I respectfully submit, is to cut

                 down on the conscience-usurpation clause.

                 There is no legitimate rationale, in my mind,

                 for pretending that insurance companies and

                 corporations have consciences, denying

                 women -- and men, because if you're the

                 employee and you want your spouse to be

                 covered, you could be discriminated against

                 also -- from exercising their own consciences





                                                          10392



                 and, because of this fiction, holding up a

                 critical piece of legislation.

                            I think that it is absolutely clear

                 that the bill that Senator Bonacic was good

                 enough to sponsor last year would pass if it

                 was put on the floor of this house.  It has

                 already passed in the Assembly.  Let's cut

                 down on this bizarre conscience-usurpation

                 clause and get serious about passing a law.

                            I do not see any moral or legal

                 impediment to it.  And I have to say that, you

                 know, this -- and this is the same issue,

                 really, as in the fertility bill.  You know,

                 at some point you have to acknowledge some of

                 the cynicism that is generated by the

                 legislative process.  We all know this is a

                 poison pill.  We know the Assembly is not

                 going to pass this.

                            If we really want to get this done,

                 let's cut down on the conscience clause.

                 Let's do what has been done in other states.

                 Other states have language that are much

                 narrower provisions.

                            Let's get to the heart of this

                 dispute and resolve it.  I take it we're going





                                                          10393



                 to be a little bit longer this year.  Maybe by

                 the time we come back in July or August or

                 September, however long this budget gridlock

                 goes on, we can get something done.  But the

                 way to get it done is not with this bill.

                 Let's go back to the Bonacic bill from last

                 year and actually pass a law.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

                 Madam President, just on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery, on the bill.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, I also

                 want to compliment Senator Bonacic.  I know

                 that he is trying very desperately to bring

                 this issue to some negotiated conclusion, and

                 I appreciate that.

                            I must say, however, that the

                 problem with it is that no matter how we

                 approach it, as long as we have this

                 conscience clause, which I refer to as an

                 exclusion clause, it creates an inequity for

                 women.  And everyone knows that women are





                                                          10394



                 already receiving only a percentage of the

                 pay, on the average, that men receive.  So

                 there already is an inequity that we have

                 worked very hard to try to address, but it

                 still exists.

                            And so we now come with

                 legislation, a proposal that will create

                 further inequity in terms of women's access to

                 health care, specifically for the area of

                 contraceptive and other aspects of

                 reproductive health care.

                            When I think of my own district,

                 even though Senator Bonacic has said on

                 several occasions that this is a very small

                 number of women, it's not -- it's a small

                 percentage of the women that we're talking

                 about.  But I think about my district, and I

                 sort of go down a list of the sites in my

                 district.  I have St. Mary's Hospital, I have

                 St. Joseph's College, I have St. Christopher

                 Ottilie.  That's a very large family service

                 program.  I have at least two Catholic high

                 schools.  Bishop Laughlin is one of them, the

                 mayor's own high school.  I have several

                 elementary schools that are sponsored by the





                                                          10395



                 diocese.  Many of the people in my district

                 work for the Fidelis HMO.

                            I can count a very large percent of

                 people who work in those institutions.  And

                 whether or not they subscribe to the religious

                 tenets of their church is their own private

                 decision and business.  But I do know that

                 there are large numbers of people who do not

                 and therefore are not necessarily bound by

                 those tenets.  But yet we are establishing an

                 insurance legislation which essentially forces

                 them to abide by such tenets.

                            And as I look at this legislation,

                 not only is it contraceptives, I believe, but

                 it's any other procedure that relates to -

                 that is contrary to religious tenets.  And it

                 says with respect to such cases an insurer

                 shall not be required to issue the rider

                 required.  With respect to such cases, the

                 superintendent shall promulgate regulations

                 providing for alternative arrangements for

                 access to the coverage, provided that such

                 arrangements shall not be contrary to the

                 religious tenets of the insurer.

                            So it's not clear to me that even





                                                          10396



                 though we have said there shall be a rider for

                 which the women shall pay, it's not clear to

                 me that, one, there is an enforcement of that

                 based on this legislation, and, two, how in

                 fact will that rider be accessed.

                            Because the insurer -- the

                 religious institution or the institution that

                 has an objection based on their religion is

                 not required to issue the rider.  So the

                 person who is seeking the rider must go out

                 and access it, and I'm not sure, the

                 legislation is not clear on just how that is

                 to happen.

                            So we have really created a

                 barrier, and we have also created an

                 additional cost to women who are least able to

                 afford that additional cost, in addition to

                 their requirements for copay.

                            So I have to oppose this.  And I

                 speak, yes, on behalf of all of those women

                 and men and their daughters who might need to

                 have access to contraceptive services and will

                 not be able to get it.  And if they don't, if

                 they are not able to purchase it because they

                 don't earn enough to afford them to get the





                                                          10397



                 rider, then they may go without.

                            And I have figures here that

                 60 percent of all pregnancies each year in the

                 United States are unintended.  So it means

                 that we need to have, especially the women

                 that I'm talking about, that I'm thinking

                 about, need to have access to contraceptive

                 services.

                            And lastly, Madam President, I just

                 want you to know and I would like Senator

                 Bonacic to know that the women in my district

                 have made it very clear to me that even though

                 it is very important to have a women's

                 wellness bill, that they want a women's

                 wellness bill that includes all women and all

                 services that they need.  And if we don't have

                 a bill that includes all of those services, we

                 are not -- we will not reach an agreement that

                 they will appreciate.

                            Thank you very much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, would Senator Montgomery yield for

                 a question?





                                                          10398



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, Senator Montgomery raised a point

                 that I hadn't thought about, which is these

                 employees of Fidelis Care, the HMO, how are

                 they going to get insurance?

                            Or if you worked, say, for a

                 religious institution that was insured by

                 Fidelis Care, and that's not going to be a

                 coincidence, that's going to happen a lot,

                 what is going to be the coverage for those

                 women?  They can't get a rider from Fidelis

                 Care.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Right now,

                 Senator Paterson, you're absolutely correct,

                 those women who are covered by Fidelis Care do

                 not have access to contraceptive or

                 reproductive health services at all, so they

                 must already go outside of that HMO in order

                 to access those services.

                            Under this legislation, the

                 employees also will not have that coverage.





                                                          10399



                 They already don't have it at -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hannon, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    I wanted to ask

                 Senator Montgomery if she'd yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Montgomery, will you yield?

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, I'll

                 yield.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Senator

                 Montgomery, do you realize that Fidelis Care

                 only provides Medicaid services?  And that's

                 not covered under this bill, so the

                 hypothetical you were asked is not germane.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Well, no,

                 it's germane, Senator, in that in my statement

                 regarding Fidelis I was referring to people

                 who work for the HMO.

                            But Senator Paterson's question

                 went to how do we -- how do people now access

                 these services who are already either covered

                 by Fidelis or work for them.  And my answer is

                 that they are not covered by Fidelis.

                            I understand that.  They are not

                 covered, they have to go outside of Fidelis in





                                                          10400



                 order to access those services if they are in

                 the Fidelis HMO, because they do not provide

                 those services.  If you work for Fidelis, you

                 also don't have the coverage.  And under this

                 legislation, they would have to have the

                 rider.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            You have spoken, Senator -

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I just

                 wanted to ask Senator Hannon to yield for a

                 question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hannon, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    But I don't have

                 the floor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    I know

                 you don't have the floor.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    I yield it to

                 Senator Hannon.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I would

                 like to ask, through you, Madam President -- I

                 appreciate the point about Fidelis.  There's

                 an insurance company called MDNY, a

                 Long-Island-based HMO partially owned by a





                                                          10401



                 group of Catholic hospitals.

                            And I'd like to ask Senator Hannon,

                 would not that insurance company, under this

                 bill, be exempt from having to write

                 contraceptive coverage?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    First of all, it

                 wouldn't be eligible, as I understand it,

                 because they're going to exercise their

                 conscience clause.  That would be for what

                 they would be offering.

                            Second, for their employees, the

                 employees would be subject to the opportunity

                 to go around and be offered this directly,

                 like the other employees covered by the

                 conscience clause.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Madam President, they would go around and

                 get it from who?  They wouldn't get it from

                 their insurance company, but they would have

                 to go to a second insurance company, is that

                 what you're saying?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    They would -

                 the provisions -- they would -- each enrollee

                 covered under the contract issued shall have

                 the right to directly purchase the rider





                                                          10402



                 required by the subsection from the insurer or

                 the health maintenance organization which

                 issued the group contract.

                            That would be on page -- I have the

                 typewritten copy -- 7 of 10 of this 5626.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    But again,

                 I guess maybe I'm not being clear in my

                 question, because I don't think I'm getting a

                 clear answer.

                            When the insurance company that

                 writes the policy won't do it because it's

                 partially owned by a Catholic institution,

                 where do the employees go?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    No, no, no, no,

                 no.  No, no.  They're not going to be able to

                 issue that policy whatsoever because, I

                 presume, they will say, "That's not something

                 we're going to write," and therefore no one

                 will purchase it from them because they're not

                 going to write it.  It's somewhat like a, you

                 know, circular argument.

                            But they're not going to be

                 offering it, so therefore you don't have to

                 worry about the situation.  It won't arise

                 under your hypothetical.





                                                          10403



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    My

                 hypothetical is the following.  If there's an

                 employee of an institution whose insurance

                 company is MDNY, which does not have to

                 write -- provide these riders, where does that

                 employee go, since he can't get it from their

                 insurer, the insurer that provides all the

                 other coverage for this person through their

                 employer, where does the employee get the

                 rider, get contraceptive coverage if they want

                 it?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    In that case I'm

                 told that they must go through the Insurance

                 Commissioner, who will provide alternative

                 ways to write.  Obviously, saying one of the

                 third-party administrators will make the

                 arrangements, one of the people who do issue

                 those policies will issue the coverage, and

                 they will be covered that way.

                            I mean, I think there will be a

                 fairly large number of people who will be

                 covered in the ordinary course of business.

                 And therefore, the Commissioner, as is done in

                 many other health policies, such as those that

                 we create for single individuals or that we've





                                                          10404



                 created in any of the New York health

                 programs, he will be able to direct this

                 coverage.

                            Frankly, I think that is a very

                 easy, logical, and accessible thing that will

                 happen.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    If the sponsor

                 will yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Bonacic, will you yield?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes, I will

                 yield.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    For just one

                 question.  Mercifully, just one question.

                            If a woman has the rider and it

                 includes birth-control coverage and she has a

                 daughter in college, would the daughter in

                 college also be entitled to the same

                 protection, the same coverage that she has?

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    If she -- if

                 the employee took the family plan as opposed

                 to, you know -





                                                          10405



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Obviously.

                 Obviously.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    The answer is

                 yes.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

                 President, on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stavisky, on the bill.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    And I will be

                 very, very brief.

                            I have a number of problems with

                 the bill that haven't been discussed

                 previously.  One is to limit the exclusions

                 for religious purposes.  Because some of the

                 purposes of these not-for-profit

                 organizations, while they are under the aegis

                 of a religious institution, they are

                 nonsectarian in their approach and in their

                 mission.

                            For example, Catholic Charities has

                 an extensive senior program with senior

                 centers in Queens County.  And in fact, I

                 happen to have a cousin who is a social worker

                 at one of the senior centers.  She does not

                 subscribe to the tenets of the Catholic





                                                          10406



                 Church, and yet she would have to ask for the

                 rider.  And yet the mission of this senior

                 center is to provide programs -- a congregate

                 meals program, et cetera -- to every senior

                 eligible, unrelated to religious mission.

                            And that's the first problem that I

                 have with the bill, that I think we ought to

                 apply the conscience clause to religious

                 entities exclusively.

                            Secondly, I have a problem with the

                 privacy area.  Senator Bonacic has assured us

                 that there will not be payroll deductions, but

                 I'm still not convinced that the employer, the

                 religious institution -- whether it be an

                 orthodox Jewish institution or a Catholic

                 institution, it makes no difference -- the

                 employer will not become familiar with the

                 person's birth-control practices.

                            I do commend everyone for their

                 concern for this issue, and I really wish this

                 were a more comprehensive bill.  And I think

                 for that reason, for those reasons, I'm going

                 to vote no.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Is there





                                                          10407



                 any other Senator that wishes to speak on the

                 bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 16.  This

                 act shall take effect -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is debate

                 still open on the bill?  I'd like to address

                 the bill, if I could, on the merits.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes.  Madam

                 President, I'll try to be very brief.

                            A number of my colleagues have

                 addressed the overexpansive conscience clause

                 that's a part of this bill.  And let me tell

                 you why I think it's too broad and I think it

                 sets up a barrier that is unnecessary.

                            I said in this debate the last time

                 we did this bill that to the extent a

                 religious organization uses the funds that are

                 raised through its religious activities -- as

                 we would call it in the Catholic Church, from

                 the collection plate -- that it is entitled to





                                                          10408



                 impose its conscientious choices for health

                 care or, for that matter, for anything else

                 upon its employees.  I believe that they have

                 the power to do that.  I believe that that

                 power should be respected by this Legislature.

                            But if you look at the definition

                 of this conscience clause, it includes those

                 connected to religious organizations.  And

                 here's why it's too broad, Madam President.  I

                 was the vice president of the Catholic

                 Families Center in Rochester.  It's about a

                 $10 million agency.  $9.5 million of the money

                 it uses to pay its employees comes from the

                 government.  It's the public's money.  These

                 are people who work under a connection to the

                 Catholic Church but the money that pays their

                 salaries and buys their health care,

                 95 percent of that money comes from the

                 government.

                            And I would suggest if you look at

                 those who work for hospitals and you look at

                 those who work for social service agencies and

                 you look at those who work for senior centers

                 like Senator Stavisky talked about, you will

                 find that they have an affiliation with the





                                                          10409



                 religious organization but most of the money

                 that pays their salary comes and originates in

                 public funds.

                            And I would just suggest that for

                 any religious organization that uses public

                 money to pay the salaries of its employees and

                 then imposes a conscience exemption on public

                 funds when they spend public funds, it seems

                 to me that that goes too far, that that in

                 essence permits us, during the course of the

                 last two decades as we privatized former

                 government services, whether it's care for the

                 mentally retarded, whether it's care for the

                 mentally ill, job training services -- all

                 kinds of services that we now provide through

                 religious-affiliated organizations like the

                 Catholic Families Center in Rochester, they're

                 using our money, they're paying the salaries

                 with our money.

                            And I would suggest that since

                 that's public money paying for their health

                 care, and only a small portion of the premium

                 is paid for with what I would call the

                 ecclesiastical dollars that come out of a

                 collection plate -- and in fact, in most





                                                          10410



                 religious organizations they completely divide

                 the employees that are performing public

                 services from those who are performing

                 ecclesiastical services.

                            And it seems to me that while

                 sponsoring of an organization does give the

                 sponsor some right to control what the

                 employees do, it really stretches our

                 credibility to say that when 95 percent of the

                 dollars that pay salaries and health insurance

                 premiums originates in public money, that then

                 we can allow the sponsor to impose

                 conscientious objections on what's available

                 to their employees for health care.

                            I think that's unfair.  And I don't

                 know why we would erect a barrier to women

                 getting contraceptive care when most of what's

                 being used to buy their premiums is public

                 dollars.  It's our money that's being used to

                 pay their salary.

                            With all due respect to the

                 Catholic Church, whose tenets I respect and am

                 a part of, I think when they're ecclesiastical

                 employees being paid by the church's money,

                 when the church's money is being used to pay





                                                          10411



                 their health insurance premiums, I'll under

                 those circumstances agree with the conscience

                 clause.

                            But when the church and it's

                 not-for-profit corporation created by this

                 government -- we charter those not-for-profit

                 corporations.  They are created by the power

                 of the State of New York -- when we create

                 them, we fund them, we give them our money, I

                 think it's unfair for their sponsor to say:

                 We're going to control what kind of health

                 care they get with public dollars.

                            I think that's a mistake.  That

                 sets up a barrier to health care for women

                 across this state that we shouldn't

                 countenance.  The churches have a right, a

                 duty, and an obligation to impose their

                 religious views on their employees that they

                 pay for.  When they're their employees that we

                 pay for, it's clearly within our power and our

                 right to say to them:  You must provide

                 certain types of women's health care to them

                 without any barriers whatsoever.

                            Let's redefine the conscience

                 clause more narrowly.  Let's tell the churches





                                                          10412



                 that we will respect their views when they use

                 their money.  Let's tell them when they use

                 our money that we have the power to say no

                 barriers to appropriate women's health care.

                            That's the message we should send.

                 Unfortunately, this bill -- and I credit

                 Senator Bonacic for trying to wrestle with

                 this difficult problem.  Unfortunately,

                 Senator, this bill doesn't get us there.

                 Follow the money.  When it's the public's

                 money, we should be able to tell them what

                 health care they have to provide.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, very briefly.

                            I think that Senator Dollinger's

                 point speaks to what is the real issue that

                 troubles some of us who cannot support this

                 bill.

                            And it really is favoring the value

                 of the ecclesiastic institutions, not because

                 of the spiritual beliefs that they have, but

                 because to some degree they have a great deal

                 of weight with government in terms of their





                                                          10413



                 impact on our capacity to resolve issues.  And

                 in favoring that value, we are diminishing the

                 quality of care that women are going to

                 receive.

                            If we are going to make women leave

                 their insurers, seek riders -- or now I

                 understand if they work for insurance

                 companies that are also religiously based,

                 they'll have to go to the Commissioner of

                 Insurance -- it's going to be so remote from

                 the basic insurance that they deserve that

                 they're going to be in the position where

                 they're either going to pay more or not get

                 insurance at all.

                            Now, at a certain point if it

                 becomes so difficult for women to receive

                 insurance to the degree that women who are

                 working for institutions that are not

                 religious are getting, there's going to be a

                 distinct difference in the coverage, a

                 definite difference between the coverage that

                 men get.

                            And I think that opens the door for

                 the situation, a repeat of the situation that

                 occurred in the state of Washington where a





                                                          10414



                 pharmacist sued a chain of drugstores for

                 failure to provide insurance for

                 contraception.  And in that case, Erickson

                 versus Bartell, the plaintiff prevailed.

                            I would not be surprised if

                 New York State winds up in a lot of lawsuits

                 relying, to our detriment, on the fact that

                 this program that we've set up is going to be

                 equal.  I think it's unequal, it was even said

                 that it was unequal by those who advocated for

                 it.  They said it's just a little bit more of

                 a charge.  A little bit to some is a lot to

                 others.  And it all adds up to discrimination.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I must confess I am torn on this

                 piece of legislation, this women's health and

                 wellness bill that we look at today.  I'm torn

                 because I desperately want to provide coverage

                 to women's health needs.  And I think all of

                 us in this room want to provide coverage to

                 women's health needs.  And I recognize the

                 work of Senators Bonacic, Rath, and Hannon in





                                                          10415



                 trying to work out some differences in this

                 bill.

                            But unfortunately, this is a

                 one-house bill.  I mean, let's face the fact

                 that this bill is not going anywhere in the

                 Assembly.  So what this essentially means is

                 again we are not going to address the health

                 care needs of women in the state of New York.

                            Last year when I campaigned, I

                 campaigned and I told citizens that I would

                 fight and vote to pass a bill that would

                 safeguard women's health.  And sadly, it

                 doesn't look like this year that's going to

                 happen.  And I think that's a value that we

                 all share in this room.  And while this bill

                 has moved closer to where we need to be, I

                 don't think this legislation goes far enough,

                 unfortunately.

                            I think what we have done here for

                 the last two years ago, clearly, is we've

                 treated women's health in this state

                 differently than we've treated men's health.

                 There's a difference in the coverage that men

                 receive and the coverage that women receive.

                 And to set up a situation that exempts certain





                                                          10416



                 organizations from providing coverage for

                 prescription contraception, coverage that

                 citizens want, that women want, and allows

                 uncovered employees to purchase a rider at a

                 group rate, that might sound like it's a good

                 thing, but the riders will cost additional

                 money.  So again, that is an unfair additional

                 burden.

                            Now, some say it's not that much

                 more money, it's 7 or 8 bucks more.  But it's

                 still different.  It's still more.  And there

                 are those in our state in the community that

                 oppose this difference.

                            So I rise to say that I think it's

                 sad that again we, the Senate and the

                 Assembly, have not been able to convene these

                 conference committees and to keep the

                 conference committees going.  I know the

                 process was started, but the process was not

                 completed.  And because the process was not

                 completed, we have two one-house bills, a

                 one-house bill in the Assembly and a one-house

                 bill in the Senate.  And again this year

                 nothing will be done on these critical issues

                 for women's health.





                                                          10417



                            This bill that would provide

                 mammograms to detect breast cancer, cervical

                 examinations to detect cervical cancer, and

                 bone density measurement to be able to detect

                 osteoporosis is not going to happen.

                            And some people will say, Well,

                 vote for the bill to reflect your strong

                 support, to reflect the value that you have to

                 protect women's health.  And some will say,

                 Don't vote for the bill because some women are

                 left out.  Well, I've got to tell you, I'm

                 terribly torn.

                            But because some women are going to

                 be left out, and because this bill clearly is

                 not going to pass this year, I think I'm going

                 to find myself in the difficult position of

                 voting no to this piece of legislation that I

                 know many of my colleagues very thoughtfully

                 and in earnest worked to try to get something

                 that would be an acceptable compromise.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Madam President.  On the bill.





                                                          10418



                            In January when this bill was

                 presented before, it was my first opportunity

                 to really hear Senator Bonacic in one of what

                 I consider to be one of his most passionate

                 discussions in this chamber.  And I certainly

                 don't mean that sarcastically at all, I mean

                 that very sincerely.

                            And I told him then that he almost

                 convinced me, because his argument was very

                 compelling.  But I've had an opportunity to

                 study this bill, and I've also had an

                 opportunity to listen to and to read, in the

                 last couple of days, the new provisions in

                 this bill.

                            And I want to personally say that I

                 think that you have done a very good job in

                 trying to examine and to look at those

                 issues -- as Senator LaValle said, look at

                 those issues that created barriers and try to

                 do the kinds of things that would make this a

                 better bill that we can all live with.

                            We're close, but no cigar.  We're

                 not close because one of the statistics that

                 you quoted, and I quoted back to you, was that

                 3 percent of the women would be left behind.





                                                          10419



                 And many of you don't think that 3 percent of

                 the women is a very large number, but it's too

                 large a number for me, particularly because

                 most of those women are in my district.  And I

                 can't go back home and say to them that you

                 now have to pay a copayment as well as the

                 payment for a rider when already budgetarily

                 you can't afford to pay for food for your

                 children.

                            I can't say to them, after the

                 years of trying to educate them about the need

                 to seek and get good health care, that it's

                 available but, I'm sorry, it's not accessible,

                 because you can't pay for it.  I cannot

                 support any legislation that is going to

                 create a barrier for any woman to get the

                 much-needed health care that is needed for

                 women in this society.

                            And I do commend you.  I commend

                 all of you who have worked strenuously.  But

                 we still have to work harder.  And we need to

                 not talk about the politicizing, because

                 that's not what this is about.  And it's not

                 about polarizing.  Because I think the people

                 in this chamber -- and I'm not talking about





                                                          10420



                 the advocates outside, but I'm talking about

                 the people in this chamber -- I think are

                 honestly together trying to create the best

                 health facilities, the best health care

                 services and ensure that health care is more

                 than available but that it is truly

                 accessible.

                            This makes it just out of the reach

                 of many of the women that I serve, and

                 certainly for those who have voted for me.  So

                 I can't vote for this bill.  And I will take

                 the heat when Senator Spano and some of the

                 others in Westchester say "She voted against

                 the bill again."

                            But I think that the people that I

                 educate and try to educate about good health

                 care will understand why we have to hold out

                 to get a better bill than this is to meet the

                 health needs of women in this state.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Is there

                 any other Senator that wishes to speak on the

                 bill?

                            Senator Bonacic, to close.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    First of all,





                                                          10421



                 I'd like to thank my colleagues on both of the

                 sides of the aisle for sharing their thoughts

                 on this legislation.

                            Just a couple of points.  Nine

                 states have conscience clauses.  The language

                 of this conscience clause was taken

                 substantially from our existing Executive Law,

                 which we have in our human rights, our

                 housing, and our employment legislation.  So

                 that's where the language came from.

                            We're trying to maintain and

                 safeguard the constitutionality of religious

                 freedom, and at the same time we want all

                 women to be able to access better health

                 benefits.  And under this legislation,

                 3.2 million women, including the women in your

                 districts, will have access to breast cancer

                 mammograms, osteoporosis screening, and

                 3.1 million of them will have access to

                 contraception.

                            Now, the less than 100,000, which

                 we've talked about for an hour and a half,

                 we've given you through this legislation

                 accessibility, but you've said affordability

                 may be too high to deny some access.  That's





                                                          10422



                 basically what you're saying.

                            And I look at the entire bill on

                 balance, and I say there's so much more good

                 here that we can do and move forward, and then

                 come back another day to try to iron out other

                 pieces that may not be satisfactory.  Because

                 that can be said of all legislation.  It's

                 always a work in progress.  We always can make

                 things more better.

                            But with breast cancer and

                 osteoporosis, these are life-threatening.

                 When people do not have early detection and

                 prevention, they die.  And on contraception,

                 most of the women are covered.  And those that

                 might not might get pregnant and shouldn't,

                 but they will live.

                            So on balance, I think it's good

                 legislation.  I think it should be supported.

                 And I thank you all for taking the time and

                 sharing with me how you feel.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 16.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.





                                                          10423



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Madam

                 President, to explain my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    To

                 explain his vote.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    I just want to

                 say to Senator Bonacic, Senator Rath, I think

                 a job well done.  As a member of the task

                 force, I think we approached this matter in

                 very deliberative way.  The conference

                 committee worked very energetically, very

                 openly, very honestly to try and meet the

                 other house halfway.

                            I want to say that this legislation

                 really would protect women, will save lives.

                 And I think Senator Bonacic said that very

                 clearly.  I think we have heard excuses,

                 excuses, excuses in why this legislation

                 should not be enacted both in this house and

                 passed in the Assembly.

                            I've worked, you know, behind the





                                                          10424



                 scenes and openly with some of the people who

                 oppose this and was led to believe that if two

                 doors were created, one with a conscience

                 clause and the second with access for all

                 women, that a bill would be acceptable.  I

                 think, very honestly, people simply do not

                 want religious institutions to be protected

                 under the constitution.  And no matter what we

                 change or what we do, as long as there is a

                 conscience clause, women will be deprived.

                            Our process is supposed to be to

                 represent the majority point of view.  I've

                 spoken to women in my district, and I would

                 say that this bill, if every woman were

                 polled, they would unanimously be behind this

                 legislation.  I think by not passing this

                 legislation we are merely responding to a

                 minority point of view.  And a minority point

                 of view will not allow women to receive proper

                 health care and have their lives protected.

                            I vote in the affirmative, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,





                                                          10425



                 Madam President.

                            I think this has been a good debate

                 on this issue.  I want to -- I'm voting no for

                 the reasons I've stated already.

                            I also want to say several of my

                 colleagues have raised the sort of specter of

                 religious discrimination and constitutional

                 rights.  There are other bills in other states

                 that have been upheld.  There's no

                 constitutional issue here.  There's no

                 discrimination against religion in the

                 Assembly bill, as there was not in the Bonacic

                 bill which many of you sponsored and which had

                 no exclusion clause.

                            This is not a constitutional issue.

                 This is a conscience issue.  And I still have

                 not heard a response to my point that people

                 have consciences, corporations do not.  This

                 is a very, very misguided effort to sidetrack

                 us from the real issue.

                            I vote no.  Let's narrow the

                 exclusion clause, then we'll get a law.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    How do

                 you vote, Senator Schneiderman?





                                                          10426



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    No.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    In the

                 negative.

                            Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Madam President, I

                 rise a second time to explain my vote.

                            And I had thought about whether I

                 really wanted to raise this point or not, but

                 something Senator Schneiderman just said

                 caused me to go back to some notes I've been

                 writing here that I felt really pulled

                 together my thoughts for the day.  And he

                 spoke about a collective conscience.

                            And my question to myself was, and

                 to you, my colleagues on both sides of the

                 aisle, and to the advocates and friends that

                 we've worked with, as we leave here this year

                 and it doesn't look like we're going to have a

                 bill, I think we've got to look at our own

                 individual consciences and start to think

                 about where we are and where we're going.

                            But there's a bigger question that

                 arises here.  Do we have a circumstance where

                 the individual conscience is going to be

                 subjected to a collective conscience, or are





                                                          10427



                 we going to subject the collective conscience

                 to the individual consciences?

                            Now, the collective conscience, in

                 my mind, is the basis for many of our

                 government, religious, civic, volunteer

                 organizations.  And as we are an emerging

                 society, and continue to emerge, we have to

                 look to something as we make decisions, as we

                 move forward as a society.  And our actions

                 are so often guided by our consciences.

                            Our consciences have been shaped by

                 our upbringing.  Our families have helped

                 shape those consciences.  But also by the

                 churches and the synagogues and the

                 organizations that we were encouraged to go to

                 and be a part of through our families.  So our

                 consciences are important to us.

                            But does the question now become

                 the jurisdiction of the conscience?  Is it an

                 individual conscience that we follow, or is it

                 a collective conscience that we follow?  Is

                 there room for both in our society?  Are we

                 going to jeopardize a God-given right that we

                 have to religious freedom by jeopardizing

                 either our collective conscience or our





                                                          10428



                 individual conscience?

                            I don't think we can answer that

                 question in this room today.  I think there

                 may be a much larger forum that is going to

                 have to address that question.  But I ask you

                 to look at it yourself.  Think about it some

                 this summer.  When we come back next year,

                 maybe we'll have a chance to review our

                 individual responsibilities and our collective

                 and individual consciences.

                            Thank you.  I vote aye.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Rath, in the affirmative.

                            Senator Goodman.

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    Madam

                 President, this bill is many ways poses a very

                 perplexing question.  As you might note, my

                 name appears on the bill as a sponsor and thus

                 reveals a degree of ambiguity in my own

                 thinking with respect to how to vote on it.

                            Let me say, however, after careful

                 reflection, my judgment is that the bill

                 should not attract an affirmative vote, for a

                 reason I'd like to explain.  It's my view that

                 it is imperative that we pass some form of





                                                          10429



                 legislation which will give women the

                 protection that they need, and I think we

                 should credit this side with every tangible

                 goodwill effort to try to accomplish that.

                            The conspiratorial notion that

                 there is a plot to try to deprive women of

                 these rights is, I think, not an accurate one.

                 In fact, I would say it's an absolutely

                 untenable position for us to even consider.

                 The fact of the matter is I know for a fact

                 there's been sincere effort to craft a bill

                 which would pass muster in many respects.

                            But let me say that I think one of

                 the compass points in this issue is the recent

                 federal court decision in Erickson versus

                 Bartell Drug Company which reaffirmed how the

                 failure of an employer to cover birth control

                 constitutes sex discrimination.

                            By supporting a broad religious

                 exemption clause, my side I believe are

                 sanctioning, without intending to, a certain

                 degree of employer -- I don't want to use the

                 word "discrimination," but employer

                 selectivity.

                            Rather than allowing such





                                                          10430



                 selectivity, the Senate should seek, in my

                 opinion, to limit the unfair treatment of

                 women by their employers and insurance

                 companies.

                            Now, let's be practical once again

                 and position this in its true spot at the

                 moment.  This is not going to pass in the

                 other house.  Therefore, this becomes a

                 one-house bill.  I think it's fair to say that

                 we are in a position where this should be

                 regarded as a step in the right direction, but

                 one that is a tangible indication of the need

                 for further intense negotiation which

                 hopefully would bring about a solution to

                 this.

                            And in making this suggestion it is

                 certainly my hope that we will put an end to

                 the type of recrimination which can be nothing

                 but destructive in regard to the consideration

                 of where we go.  We all agree that women need

                 the coverage provided by the bill, and the

                 narrow, rather bizarre piece that relates to

                 the conscience clause is one that I think can

                 readily be surmounted by individuals of

                 goodwill.





                                                          10431



                            It's my hope that we can get on

                 with this promptly, because the sooner the

                 bill is adopted, the better things will be for

                 the health of women and the welfare of the

                 people of this state.

                            Thank you very much, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    How do

                 you vote, Senator Goodman?

                            SENATOR GOODMAN:    I vote in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Goodman in the negative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1287 are

                 Senators Breslin, Brown, Connor, Dollinger,

                 Duane, Goodman, Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery,

                 Oppenheimer, Santiago, Schneiderman, and

                 Stavisky.  Also, Senator Paterson.  Ayes, 45.

                 Nays, 13.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam





                                                          10432



                 President, may we return to reports of

                 standing committees for a report of the Rules

                 and Finance Committees, respectively.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 214, by Senator

                 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Civil Service

                 Law.

                            415A, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Executive Law.

                            416A, by Senator Morahan, an act

                 enacting.

                            434A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            473A, by Senator Alesi, an act to

                 amend the Education Law.

                            3826, by Senator Breslin, an act

                 authorizing.

                            3950, by Senator Maziarz, an act to

                 amend the Executive Law.

                            4467, by Senator Marcellino, an act





                                                          10433



                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

                            4624A, by Senator Hannon, an act to

                 amend the State Technology Law.

                            4641A, by Senator Seward, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law.

                            4742, by Senator Morahan, an act to

                 reopen.

                            4898A, by Senator Saland, an act

                 relating to establishing.

                            4924A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

                 act to authorize.

                            4942, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Civil Service Law.

                            5404A, by Senator Lack, an act to

                 amend the Uniform Commercial Code.

                            5420, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            5428, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Judiciary Law.

                            5467, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

                 act in relation to the apportionment.

                            5498, by Senator Meier, an act in

                 relation to contracts.

                            5510, by Senator Johnson, an act to

                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.





                                                          10434



                            5559, by Senator Marcellino, an act

                 to amend the Parks, Recreation and Historic

                 Preservation Law.

                            5588, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            5634, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Town Law.

                            5639, by Senator Wright, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            5649, by Senator Seward, an act

                 authorizing.

                            And 5666, by Senator Bonacic, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, I move to accept the report of the

                 Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in

                 favor of accepting the report of the Rules

                 Committee signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,





                                                          10435



                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 report is accepted.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, can we read the report of the

                 Finance Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As a member of the Administrative

                 Review Board for Professional Medical Conduct,

                 Robert M. Briber, of Schenectady.

                            As members of the Small Business

                 Advisory Board, Catherine Crowley, of New York

                 City, and Judith B. Russell, of Albion.

                            As a member of the Fire Fighting

                 and Code Enforcement Personnel Standards and

                 Education Commission, Gerald W. Lynch.

                            As a member of the Veterans'

                 Affairs Commission, Harold G. Cronin, of Lake

                 Luzerne.





                                                          10436



                            As members of the Board of Trustees

                 of the New York State Higher Education

                 Services Corporation, William P. Beckman, of

                 Bronxville, and Christopher Walsh, of

                 Jamesville.

                            As a member of the Board of

                 Directors of the Roosevelt Island Operating

                 Corporation, John B. Mannix, of New York City.

                            As a member of the State Camp

                 Safety Advisory Council, Robert Geraci, of

                 Baldwinsville.

                            As members of the State Hospital

                 Review and Planning Council, James X. Kennedy,

                 of Geneva, and David O. Simon, of Chappaqua.

                            As a member of the Board of

                 Visitors of the New York State Home for

                 Veterans and their Dependents at St. Albans,

                 Ruth Lillian Young, of Jamaica.

                            As a member of the Board of

                 Visitors of the Capital District Psychiatric

                 Center, Angelo T. Muccigrosso, of Niskayuna.

                            As a member of the Board of

                 Visitors of the Rockland Psychiatric Center,

                 Margot Vazquez, of Suffern.

                            And as sheriff of Monroe County,





                                                          10437



                 Patrick O'Flynn, of Penfield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Stafford.

                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move the

                 nominations, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Madam

                 President, I defer to Senator Alesi.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Alesi.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Last week my colleagues Senators

                 Nozzolio, Maziarz, and Dollinger, we all had

                 the opportunity to speak on a privileged

                 resolution recognizing the resignation of a

                 great, nationally recognized sheriff from

                 Monroe County.

                            And today we have the opportunity

                 to recognize Patrick O'Flynn, who has been

                 nominated by the Governor.  And again, showing

                 the Governor's exceptional wisdom in this

                 nomination, Patrick O'Flynn has served for

                 over twenty years on the Monroe County





                                                          10438



                 Sheriff's Department and has worked his way up

                 from every position imaginable, gaining

                 invaluable experience to assume the role of

                 Monroe County sheriff.

                            Aside from his very impressive

                 resume, however, I would like to say that not

                 only as the Senator representing him, as he is

                 my constituent, but as a personal friend of

                 him and his family, I am extremely proud and

                 have firsthand knowledge of his abilities and

                 his ability also to inspire the people that

                 will be working under him.

                            Patrick O'Flynn is a very good

                 personal friend of mine, and it's a deep honor

                 for me to be able to speak on his behalf.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            Certainly I wish to echo the

                 comments of Senator Alesi on the nomination of

                 Patrick O'Flynn to be Monroe County sheriff.

                 Officer O'Flynn, Patrick O'Flynn is a

                 dedicated public servant.  He has devoted his

                 life to law enforcement.





                                                          10439



                            And as Senator Alesi said, although

                 he certainly has extremely big shoes to fill

                 in succeeding our beloved sheriff Andy Meloni,

                 that Patrick O'Flynn is up to the task,

                 serving at Sheriff Meloni's side for many,

                 many years.

                            He has worked as undersheriff, is

                 uniquely qualified, extremely qualified to be

                 the Monroe County sheriff.  And we certainly

                 look forward to working with him to better law

                 enforcement efforts in the County of Monroe.

                            I support the nomination.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 question is on the appointees as read by the

                 Secretary.  All in favor signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 appointees are hereby confirmed.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam





                                                          10440



                 President, I was out of the chamber.  I

                 understand one of the issues before us is the

                 nomination of Patrick O'Flynn as the sheriff

                 of Monroe County, and I believe it has been

                 voted on by the house.

                            I'd like to be recorded in the

                 negative, Madam President.  I was disappointed

                 that Mr. O'Flynn was not here before the

                 Senate Finance Committee.  I had thought he

                 would be.  I understand the protocol is that

                 unless requested, the sheriff wouldn't have

                 been here.  He was here yesterday.

                            I am concerned about a number of

                 issues under the jurisdiction of the sheriff,

                 the health care at the county jail.  It's been

                 highly publicized that there was a death at

                 the jail, in a heroin overdose situation, in

                 which the Commission on Corrections in this

                 state found that there was gross negligence on

                 the part of the operation by the sheriff of

                 the jail.

                            And I wish I had had the

                 opportunity to discuss that issue with

                 Mr. O'Flynn before his appointment.

                            But I'm also concerned, Madam





                                                          10441



                 President, because I don't quite understand

                 why we're doing this.  County law makes it

                 very clear that the undersheriff serves as the

                 acting sheriff until such time as an election

                 occurs.  I think we've perhaps burnished

                 Mr. O'Flynn's credentials to be in the

                 election coming this fall.

                            But I wish he had been here for a

                 more thorough discussion about some of the

                 critical issues that face the county sheriff's

                 department, and I regret I didn't get a chance

                 to do that, Madam President.

                            But I'd ask to be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 record will reflect your vote.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, with unanimous consent I'd like to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 1288.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,





                                                          10442



                 is there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  On page 27, I offer the following

                 amendments to my bill, Calendar Number 728,

                 Senate Print Number 5213A, and ask that the

                 bill retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bill will retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            And on behalf of Senator Goodman, I

                 wish to call up his bill, Senate Print Number

                 5565, which is now at this desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1167, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5565,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Madam President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which





                                                          10443



                 this bill was passed and ask that the bill be

                 restored to the order of third reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is restored to Third Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  With unanimous consent I'd like to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 638, Senate 357C, and Calendar Number 961,

                 Senate 1963B.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so ordered.

                            Senator Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  With unanimous consent, I wish to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 1288, Senate 5627.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so ordered.





                                                          10444



                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go to Supplemental Calendar

                 Number 2, controversial.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 604, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4560A, an

                 act to amend Chapter 331 of the Laws of 2000.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam

                 President -

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 on Calendar Number 604, is there a message at

                 the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a message at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in

                 favor signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,

                 nay.

                            (No response.)





                                                          10445



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message of necessity has been accepted.

                            Senator Dollinger, an explanation

                 of the bill?  Just one moment, Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 632, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

                 Assembly Print Number 7184, an act to amend

                 Chapter 640 of the Laws of 1997.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          10446



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 668, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3382B, an

                 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation

                 to pilotage fees.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 there is a message at the desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All in favor will say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed

                 say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            Senator Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    May we have

                 an explanation, Madam President?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Marchi, an explanation has been requested.





                                                          10447



                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

                 this provides for an increase in the pilotage

                 tariff for the Sandy Hook pilots.  They pick

                 up these vessels when they -- foreign-flag

                 vessels when they pass the sandbar and -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Pardon

                 me, Senator Marchi, for just one moment.

                            Could we have some quiet in this

                 chamber, please, while this distinguished

                 gentleman answers Senator Dollinger's request.

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Thank you.  This

                 bill provides for a pilotage an increase in

                 the pilotage tariff charged or accounted for

                 by the services provided by the Sandy Hook

                 pilots for piloting foreign-flag vessels over

                 the sandbar and into the harbor.

                            It provides for an immediate

                 increase of the rate of 5 percent until

                 July 1, 2002, and, beyond that, 4½ percent.

                            Now, the nature of the vessels, for

                 those of you who have had any seagoing

                 experience -- and if you don't, you probably

                 know about it -- have changed dramatically.

                 You have much larger vessels, a smaller number

                 of vessels.





                                                          10448



                            So the economics of it bring in

                 some very serious burdens on the provision of

                 those services to correspond to the changing

                 nature of the transport of the product.  So

                 that there has been a two-step increase to

                 meet these expenses.

                            I don't think there's any -- I

                 think there's general consensus that this is

                 an orderly response to the changing nature of

                 the provisioning of these services.

                            You have to realize, and I assume

                 those of you who have had seagoing experience,

                 as I have, that you have a very serious

                 problem when you bring in vessels, very, very

                 large vessels, where one serious accident

                 could wipe out all of the costs that are

                 involved, in the absence of enlightened and

                 high professional competence in the delivery

                 of this service.

                            And this has indeed been the

                 experience.  These are the finest pilots in

                 the world, carrying the most expensive and

                 difficult vessels -- perhaps not on distances

                 that are as long.  There are some areas of

                 Chesapeake Bay where you may have to travel





                                                          10449



                 longer.  But the burdens and the tensions and

                 the pressures that are on pilots require

                 people of a high degree of competence.

                            And this represents an enlightened

                 consensus of the best way to meet this.  We

                 have not had a reflection of the changing

                 nature of the dynamics of this process, and

                 this would bring it into rough parity.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I don't know if I have a problem

                 with this bill.  It just kind of jumped off

                 the page when in 1999 we gave a 15 percent

                 increase and also a $75 per trip fee, and now

                 we're going to add an additional 40 percent.

                 And one of the memos believes that if you add

                 up all of the fees for pilotage and the

                 increases over the last three years, it would

                 be about 59.2 percent.

                            And I just wanted to ask Senator

                 Marchi if we're going to have a 13 percent

                 increase annually.  Does this final increase

                 really bring the pilotage vessels that -- you

                 know, the industry up-to-date?  In other





                                                          10450



                 words, they're not going to be back here in

                 another two years looking for a 30 percent

                 increase?  There might have to be an increase.

                 But does this put the workers and everyone on

                 par with where they should be?

                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Did I give you

                 those statistics here?  It's 5 percent until

                 2002, and 4½ percent beyond that, in our

                 second step.

                            The total is -- no, this -- the

                 present arrangement terminates, and these are

                 the dynamics of the problem as they exist

                 today.  And there has been that change.

                            I don't anticipate any -- unless

                 there's -- I really don't anticipate any

                 large-scale increases.  Because of the very

                 nature and the depth of the channels and the

                 configuration of the ships, I don't think that

                 they can expand very much anything that adds

                 appreciably to the distance from the waterline

                 down to the keel.  We are at the outer limits

                 right now.  In the absence of even -- in the

                 presence, you wouldn't have the berthing

                 quarters.

                            So I don't -- I feel very confident





                                                          10451



                 that this will enable them to go forward and

                 to make the needed replacement of vessels that

                 have outworn their usefulness.  There are a

                 whole series of problems that would require

                 more extended presentation.  But I there's a

                 general consensus that we're on the right road

                 here.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 733, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4251A, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.





                                                          10452



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    An

                 explanation has been requested, Senator

                 Larkin.

                            Lay the bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 778, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print Number

                 4042A, an act to authorize the Shaw Temple.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 779, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print Number

                 6061A, an act to authorize.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the





                                                          10453



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'd ask to

                 vote in the negative on that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded

                 in the negative.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please call up Calendar

                 Number 604.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 604, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4560A, an

                 act to amend Chapter 331 of the Laws of 2000.





                                                          10454



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hannon, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    This allows the

                 Miracle Christian Church in the town of

                 Hempstead to file an application for a real

                 property tax exemption.

                            Previously this house had passed

                 such an authority for them to file an

                 exemption with the County of Nassau on behalf

                 of the taxing districts for which the County

                 of Nassau provides the assessment.  This would

                 add to that earlier statute the village of

                 Hempstead, which is a separate assessing

                 district.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, if Senator Hannon would yield for a

                 brief question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hannon, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.





                                                          10455



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Was it that

                 there was a ministerial filing and that it was

                 late, or that they went to the wrong entity?

                            SENATOR HANNON:    No, neither,

                 Senator, in this sense.  They had been late, I

                 believe, originally.  But when we passed the

                 original statute, it didn't cover the village

                 of Hempstead.

                            We had gotten the draft in this

                 house from the Assembly and had passed it as

                 they had passed it.  Because of the timing of

                 when we could pass, we couldn't go back and

                 get another bill from them.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Okay, thank

                 you.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    So we have to do

                 this as a nature of a chapter amendment to an

                 already existing exemption application

                 statute.  Which I must admit, if we pass a

                 more general statute, we wouldn't need this

                 series of minor statutes.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, stop him before I change my mind.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the





                                                          10456



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    With all due

                 respect to my good friend Senator Hannon, I

                 have to vote against the chapter amendment to

                 the bill that I voted against the first time

                 around.

                            I couldn't agree with the chair of

                 the Committee on Health more than ever.  Let's

                 do the statewide bill and get out of the

                 business.  Which Senator Hannon's bill exactly

                 exemplifies the problem, is that these bills,

                 we make a tiny mistake in the deed description

                 or we leave out the village taxing entity, and

                 we have to bring the whole bill back.

                            It just highlights the continuing

                 problem, Madam President, and I hope my

                 continuing negative vote will continue to

                 highlight why we should change it.





                                                          10457



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            The bill is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you kindly call up Calendar

                 Number 733.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 733, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4251A, an

                 act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering

                 and Breeding Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.





                                                          10458



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please call up Calendar

                 Number 1025.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1025, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5303A,

                 an act in relation to allowing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10459



                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please recognize Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I'd just ask unanimous

                 consent to be recorded in the negative on

                 Calendar Number 778.

                            Thank you to the Acting Majority

                 Leader.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so ordered.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, if we can take up the

                 noncontroversial reading of Supplemental

                 Calendar Number 56B.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1289, Senator Nozzolio moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,





                                                          10460



                 Assembly Bill Number 3938 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 214,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1289.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1289, by Member of the Assembly Destito,

                 Assembly Print Number 3938, an act to amend

                 the Civil Service Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            Senator Nozzolio, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Madam

                 President, this bill before us is one of the

                 most important measures ever adopted by this

                 house to recognize the incredibly difficult

                 conditions faced every day by the brave men

                 and women who serve as correction officers in

                 this state.  Without a doubt, they walk the





                                                          10461



                 toughest law enforcement beat in America.

                            And that this measure provides them

                 with the respect that is afforded law

                 enforcement officials across the state,

                 including the state police, city, town, and

                 village police departments.

                            Correction officers need binding

                 arbitration.  This is a tremendous victory,

                 and I thank Senator Bruno for his leadership.

                 I respect certainly and thank those correction

                 officers who worked so hard for this measure.

                            That this is a very important

                 measure to enhance the workplace environment

                 for correction officers.  And, Madam

                 President, I move the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1290, Senator LaValle moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

                 Assembly Bill Number 295A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 415A,





                                                          10462



                 Third Reading Calendar 1290.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1290, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz,

                 Assembly Print Number 295A, an act to amend

                 the Executive Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1291, Senator Morahan moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

                 Assembly Bill Number 294A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 416A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1291.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitution is ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1291, by Member of the Assembly Gunther,

                 Assembly Print Number 294A, an act enacting

                 the Greenwood Lake Commission.





                                                          10463



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

                 act shall take effect upon enactment into law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1292, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 434A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10464



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1293, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 473A, an

                 act to amend the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 August.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1294, by Senator Breslin, Senate Print 3826,

                 an act authorizing William P. Soronen, Jr., to

                 file retroactive membership.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.





                                                          10465



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1295, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3950,

                 an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1296, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print





                                                          10466



                 4467, an act to amend the Environmental

                 Conservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1298, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4641A,

                 an act to amend the Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

                 act shall take effect December 31, 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce





                                                          10467



                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1299, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 4742,

                 an act to reopen.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1301, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4898A,

                 an act relating to establishing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.





                                                          10468



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1302, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 4924A, an act to authorize.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is

                 a home rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10469



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1303, Senator Leibell moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8440 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4942,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1303.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            There is a home rule message at the

                 desk.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1303, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8440, an act to amend

                 the Civil Service Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce





                                                          10470



                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1304, by Senator Lack -

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1305, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5420, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and

                 the State Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect 180 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          10471



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1306, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5428,

                 an act to amend the Judiciary Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect January 1, 2002.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just briefly

                 to explain my vote, Madam President.

                            I'm going to vote in favor of this

                 bill, and I do so with a bittersweet twinge in

                 my casting this ballot.  This is a salary for

                 a position that I once ran for and was

                 unsuccessful in attaining.  The man who beat

                 me in that election quite frankly deserves to

                 be paid the same amount as Surrogate Court

                 judges throughout the major counties in

                 upstate New York.  And it seems to me it's

                 only fair.

                            I commend Senator Nozzolio for





                                                          10472



                 putting this bill on the floor.  This is a

                 bill about the fairness in what we pay our

                 county Surrogate Court judges.  And when you

                 live by the voters, Madam President, sometimes

                 you die by the voters, but you respect their

                 choice.  I respect their choice in this case,

                 and I vote to raise this salary for this

                 particular gentleman, with best wishes to him.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1307, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5467, an act in relation to the apportionment.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1308, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5498, an

                 act in relation to contracts.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This





                                                          10473



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1309, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5510,

                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social

                 Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.





                                                          10474



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1310, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

                 5559, an act to amend the Parks, Recreation

                 and Historic Preservation Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5588, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the





                                                          10475



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo, that completes

                 the reading of the noncontroversial

                 supplemental calendar.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, can we now take up the

                 controversial reading of the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1290, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly Print Number

                 295A, an act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.





                                                          10476



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, I had had a question relating to

                 the recent Supreme Court case involving the

                 restrictions on police when it comes to

                 thermal imaging.  But this is the fire

                 department, as it was explained to me by

                 Senator LaValle.

                            If the police were to approach the

                 fire department for any of that information,

                 that would be in violation of the court

                 decision.  But what the fire department does

                 with it on its own is not going to have any

                 Fourth Amendment implications, so I withdraw

                 the need for an explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10477



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1304, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5404A, an

                 act to amend the Uniform Commercial Code.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily, please.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1307, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5467, an act in relation to the apportionment.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Lay the

                 bill is aside temporarily.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please take up Calendar

                 Number 1304.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1304, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5404A, an

                 act to amend the Uniform Commercial Code.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Explanation.





                                                          10478



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Lack, an explanation has been requested.

                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            While this is a 109-page bill, it's

                 actually fairly simple.  It's the agreed-upon

                 revision of Article 9 of the Uniform

                 Commercial Code.  Article 9 applies to any

                 action in which a security interest is created

                 in personal property.  Forty-five states have

                 enacted the revised Article 9.  It's been 25

                 years since there was a revision of this

                 particular article of the code.

                            Of course, I'd be more than happy

                 to stand here and tell you that I revised it

                 all myself, except to say that this effort

                 began in 1993 with the effort by the National

                 Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State

                 Laws.  They have produced thousands of pages

                 of documents which were then discussed among

                 the various national commissioners, law

                 schools, professors, et cetera, across the

                 country.

                            The Article 9 drafting committee

                 worked between 1993 and 1998 to complete its





                                                          10479



                 work, and then the revised Article 9 was

                 unanimously approved by the national

                 conference and the American Law Institute.  As

                 I said, 45 states have now considered it.

                            The national effective date is

                 July 1, 2001.  That is very important for the

                 State of New York, because the basis of many

                 secure transactions in the United States is

                 according to New York law because of the

                 place, New York, where the root of many of

                 those transactions do take place.  If by

                 July 1st of this year our law is nonconforming

                 with at least 44 and perhaps 49 other

                 states -- because bills are pending in other

                 state legislatures, the few that have not

                 passed it -- suffice it to say there would be

                 a rather extended crisis in terms of such

                 financial transactions.

                            What is basically done is that the

                 scope of Article 9 was expanded to cover where

                 technology has come into play over the last

                 25 years.  Rules have been simplified and

                 clarified governing the creation, perfection,

                 priority, and enforcement of security

                 interests.  These changes lower the cost,





                                                          10480



                 increase the availability of secured credit.

                            It also, in the case of New York,

                 does away with what was the dual filing

                 requirements, which, considering

                 computerization, availability of the Internet,

                 is no longer needed in the state.

                            It provides for central filing for

                 agricultural collateral instead of local

                 filing currently required under old Article 9.

                            And it provides significant new

                 benefits and protections to consumers by

                 expanding the definition of "good faith" to

                 include honesty in fact and the observance of

                 a reasonable commercial standard of fair

                 dealing, has enhanced description requirements

                 applicable to certain types of collateral,

                 special presale and postsale notice rules,

                 limitations on recovery in certain low-priced

                 dispositions, enhanced rights as a buyer in

                 the ordinary course of business, inclusion of

                 consumer transactions in certain new rules

                 that enhance the rights of secured

                 creditors -- that is, rules related to deposit

                 accounts and partial strict foreclosure -- and

                 the adoption of the holder in due course rule,





                                                          10481



                 the FTC rule, protecting the consumer where a

                 claim is made by an assignee of the consumer

                 credit contract.

                            As I said, the immediate enactment

                 is needed so that on the nationwide, universal

                 commencement date of July 1st New York is in

                 conformity with the laws of all the other

                 states that have already enacted this

                 Article 9.

                            For the most part, these elements

                 of the Uniform Commercial Code are outside the

                 normal political give-and-take and are handled

                 by the national conference and the uniform

                 laws commissioners who, in my opinion, have

                 done an excellent job over the eight years

                 that they have worked on bringing about the

                 revised Article 9.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 LaValle.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Will Senator

                 Lack yield for one question?

                            SENATOR LACK:    Yes, Senator.

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Senator Lack,

                 in looking through, and other members here

                 looking at the 111-page bill, those of us who





                                                          10482



                 are attorneys and must fulfill CLE credits

                 wonder, do we receive one credit for passage

                 of this bill and the explanation and receiving

                 the briefing book such that you have?

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR LACK:    Senator LaValle,

                 if you look at the 14th line on page 69, you

                 would find that CLE credit has been included.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Explanation

                 satisfactory.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 61.  This

                 act shall take effect July 1, 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just to

                 explain my vote.

                            I appreciate Senator Lack

                 shepherding this bill.  This bill, at least

                 based on what I know -

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger, could you hold it for one moment.

                 We're on a roll call right now.  We've got to





                                                          10483



                 get to the roll call.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 61.  This

                 act shall take effect July 1, 2001.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Dollinger.

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I just want to commend Senator Lack

                 for shepherding this bill through, the

                 109-page, 111-page bill.  I predicted in our

                 short discussion back here with my colleagues

                 from Long Island that this will be the CLE

                 curse of lawyers in New York.

                            And lo and behold, Senator Lack, I

                 have no doubt that someday you will be called

                 back to the board of bar examiners to explain

                 this to them when they in turn correct the

                 exams from those young law students who are

                 trying to figure out what Article 9 is, what

                 it means, and what are all those security

                 interest filings they do at the time of





                                                          10484



                 closing of commercial transactions.

                            But I think Senator LaValle made a

                 good point when we were discussing, that the

                 electronic commerce of the future means that

                 we won't wait another 25 years to review

                 Article 9, that the door is open for

                 transactions that even today we can't

                 necessarily envision.  When they come, we have

                 to preserve the rights of creditors and

                 lenders to be able to reclaim collateral and

                 assets in order to make our financial system

                 work.

                            So this is a bravo in getting it to

                 this point, Senator Lack.  And when my clients

                 call me and ask me what Article 9 really

                 means, the new Article 9, I will no doubt be

                 referring them to you, Senator Lack, wherever

                 you may be.

                            SENATOR LACK:    My cards are being

                 distributed as we speak.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    That's all

                 based on the assumption that Senator Lack

                 knows what it means himself.  And I'm willing

                 to concede that, but we'll wait and see.





                                                          10485



                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, will you please take up Calendar

                 Number 1307.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1307, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 5467, an act in relation to the apportionment.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation,

                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, Senator Hevesi has asked

                 requested an explanation.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.  This

                 bill was done in response to a request from

                 the superintendent of the North Syracuse

                 School District.

                            Apparently during the years





                                                          10486



                 1991-1992 to 1995-1996, during those school

                 years, the district submitted information

                 concerning its attendance, its number of

                 pupils at various schools.  It wasn't until

                 four years after the '95-'96 school year that

                 the school was notified that their numbers -

                 the State Education Department said that their

                 numbers were inaccurate and that they were

                 overpaid by $486,000 plus.  They were

                 notified, as I say, four years after the years

                 in question.

                            The school district went back to

                 the State Education Department during the

                 year -- the end of the year 2000 to go over

                 these numbers after they were notified of the

                 information.  By April of 2001, the State

                 Education Department agreed that their

                 original conclusion was erroneous.

                            However, by that time the time

                 within which to appeal a determination by the

                 State Education Department of overpayments or

                 underpayments, their time limitation had run.

                 And the Education Department says the only way

                 that they could be paid what they were

                 required to be paid and not have to reimburse





                                                          10487



                 the so-called overpayment, since it was proven

                 that it wasn't an overpayment, was by

                 legislative action in view of the limit of

                 time that the school district had to contest

                 the overpayment.

                            So all this really does is allow -

                 it will mean that the North Syracuse School

                 District will be in line with everybody else

                 as far as when they get payments for -- on

                 additional sums that they were entitled to by

                 the State Education Department.  And whenever

                 they're reached in the ordinary course where

                 they're entitled to more payments from prior

                 years, they will be able to get this money

                 back.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  Will the sponsor please yield?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, will you yield?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you.





                                                          10488



                            That was an excellent explanation,

                 and your final point hit on my concern here.

                 So let me just clarify, you did a good job

                 doing it, but there's a specific provision in

                 this bill that I want to ask you about in

                 terms of the payment.

                            It's in line 7:  "Such aid shall be

                 payable pursuant to the provisions of

                 paragraph C of subdivision 5 of Section 3604

                 of the Education Law, but not subject to the

                 provisions of any other paragraph."

                            My question to you is, this will be

                 treated, as a result of that language that I

                 just read to you, as any other prior-year

                 school aid claim is treated by any school

                 district in New York State?

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    That is my

                 understanding.  I didn't bring the entire

                 Education Law with me to verify that.

                            But if you would like to, we could

                 lay this aside temporarily and I could

                 double-check on it.  But that's the way it was

                 explained to me.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President,

                 I would very much appreciate if you would do





                                                          10489



                 that.  Because if that's not the case, I have

                 a major problem with this bill.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Okay.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Can we lay

                 the bill aside temporarily?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is laid aside at the sponsor's request.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, may we please take up the

                 Supplemental Calendar Number 3,

                 noncontroversial calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 484, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 855, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.





                                                          10490



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 797, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4255A, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,

                 sir, there is a message of necessity at the

                 desk.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Move to

                 accept.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.

                 All those in favor say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Those

                 opposed say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 motion is carried.  The message is accepted.





                                                          10491



                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of

                 January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President,

                 I just wanted to make sure that I was seen

                 voting in the negative on Calendar Number 484.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Calendar

                 484?

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without

                 objection, so ordered.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    It wasn't my

                 fault.  It was the lamps.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    It was

                 the lamp?  Oh, okay.  Well, that happens.





                                                          10492



                 Thank you very much.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 799, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4545, an

                 act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect in 90 days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hannon.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Yes, Madam

                 President.  I just want to explain my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    That's

                 okay.  Thank you.

                            SENATOR HANNON:    Okay.  This

                 legislation would deal with the question of

                 access to tobacco products, aimed at

                 curtailing the access by minors.

                            One of the difficulties we have in

                 trying to diminish the number of people in the

                 state who smoke is the fact that so often when

                 a person is a minor, they begin smoking, get





                                                          10493



                 addicted, and continue.  Studies have found

                 that if we could cut that cycle, we would do a

                 great deal to improve the individual's health

                 and our society's costs in curing the health

                 problems that result from smoking.

                            So that what we do here is say that

                 products, tobacco products and cigarettes must

                 be stored behind a counter in an area

                 accessible only to the personnel of such

                 business or in a locked container.  And the

                 idea is so that the product can be visible but

                 not accessible to the consumer from the

                 selling side of the counter, and it would only

                 accessible to the personnel of the business

                 from behind the counter.

                            And we feel by doing this we'd be

                 adding a great deal to what happens in

                 disposal of the cigarettes and thinking

                 therefore we'd add a great deal to the public

                 policy of this state.

                            And I thank you very much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill





                                                          10494



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 617, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5027, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, would you read Calendar Number

                 1307.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1307, Senate Print 5467, an act in relation to

                 the apportionment.





                                                          10495



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I think

                 we've already explained it, if you were paying

                 attention, Senator Paterson.

                            I requested this bill be

                 temporarily laid aside, and I checked the

                 statute.  And my reading of the statute is

                 what I explained earlier; namely, that the

                 school district would wait in line behind any

                 other school district that had a prior claim

                 that had been approved.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Very briefly on

                 the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Hevesi, on the bill.

                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I fully support this bill and just

                 wanted to take a moment to commend Senator





                                                          10496



                 DeFrancisco.  That's the way you conduct

                 business.  That spirit of collegiality will

                 advance public policy interests in addition to

                 the normal discourse in this chamber.  He is

                 to be commended.

                            And this is a worthy bill, and I

                 applaud his efforts to bring fruitful results

                 to the students of the North Syracuse Central

                 School District.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Announce

                 the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, is there any housekeeping at the





                                                          10497



                 desk?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    No, there is no

                 housekeeping at the desk.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, would you recognize Senator

                 Paterson, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator

                 Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam

                 President, there will be an immediate

                 conference of the Minority right after

                 session, an immediate conference of the

                 Minority.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate

                 Minority in Room 314, immediately following

                 session.

                            Senator Fuschillo.

                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

                 President, there being no further business to

                 come before the Senate, I move we adjourn

                 until 10:30 tomorrow morning.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 10:30 tomorrow morning.





                                                          10498



                            (Whereupon, at 8:00 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)