Regular Session - April 17, 2002

                                                            2224







                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE











                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD



















                             ALBANY, NEW YORK



                              April 17, 2002



                                11:06 a.m.











                              REGULAR SESSION















            LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President



            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary



































                                                        2225







                           P R O C E E D I N G S



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will



                 please come to order.



                            I ask everyone present to please



                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of



                 Allegiance.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited



                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)



                            THE PRESIDENT:    In the absence of



                 clergy, may we each bow our head in a moment



                 of silence, please.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage



                 respected a moment of silence.)



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the



                 Journal.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,



                 Tuesday, April 16, the Senate met pursuant to



                 adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, April 15,



                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate



                 adjourned.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without



                 objection, the Journal stands approved as



                 read.



                            Presentation of petitions.



                            Messages from the Assembly.











                                                        2226







                            Messages from the Governor.



                            Reports of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maltese,



                 from the Committee on Elections, reports:



                            Senate Print 350, by Senator



                 Morahan, an act to amend the Election Law;



                            2009, by Senator Kuhl, an act to



                 amend the Election Law;



                            2681, by Senator Maltese, an act to



                 amend the Election Law;



                            4214, by Senator Morahan, an act to



                 amend the Election Law;



                            And 5683, by Senator Maltese, an



                 act to amend the Election Law.



                            Senator LaValle, from the Committee



                 on Higher Education, reports:



                            Senate Print 3017, by Senator



                 LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law;



                            4648A, by Senator LaValle, an act



                 to amend the Education Law;



                            6191A, by Senator McGee, an act to



                 amend the Education Law;



                            And Senate Print 6217, by Senator



                 LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law.











                                                        2227







                            All bills ordered direct to third



                 reading.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection, all bills direct to Third Reading



                 Calendar.



                            Reports of select committees.



                            Communications and reports from



                 state officers.



                            Motions and resolutions.



                            Senator Farley.



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            This is on behalf of Senator



                 Balboni, Madam President.  I move that the



                 following bill be discharged from its



                 respective committee and be recommitted with



                 instructions to strike the enacting clause:



                 That's Senate Print 6170.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So



                 ordered.



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 there's a privileged resolution at the desk.











                                                        2228







                 May we have the title read and move for its



                 immediate adoption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    By the Senate



                 Committee on Rules, Senate Resolution Number



                 4984, amending Section 1 of Rule VII of the



                 Senate rules, in relation to changing the name



                 of the standing committee on Investigations,



                 Taxation and Government Operations to



                 Investigation and Government Operations.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 question is on the resolution.  All those in



                 favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 resolution is adopted.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 are there substitutions to be made at the



                 desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,











                                                        2229







                 there are.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could do



                 them at this time.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 31,



                 Senator Marcellino moves to discharge, from



                 the Committee on Consumer Protection, Assembly



                 Bill Number 1990 and substitute it for the



                 identical Senate Bill Number 491, Third



                 Reading Calendar 549.



                            On page 31, Senator Morahan moves



                 to discharge, from the Committee on Consumer



                 Protection, Assembly Bill Number 366A and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 3141A, Third Reading Calendar 551.



                            On page 32, Senator Leibell moves



                 to discharge, from the Committee on Local



                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 1530 and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 3157, Third Reading Calendar 558.



                            On page 33, Senator Rath moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Local



                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 7120 and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill











                                                        2230







                 Number 5372, Third Reading Calendar 567.



                            On page 33, Senator Maziarz moves



                 to discharge, from the Committee on Local



                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 8823B and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 5540A, Third Reading Calendar 568.



                            On page 34, Senator Meier moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Local



                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 10071A and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 6396A, Third Reading Calendar 577.



                            On page 35, Senator Trunzo moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on



                 Transportation, Assembly Bill Number 8846 and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 4602, Third Reading Calendar 594.



                            On page 35, Senator Spano moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Labor,



                 Assembly Bill Number 2544 and substitute it



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4298,



                 Third Reading Calendar 596.



                            On page 39, Senator Alesi moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Commerce,



                 Economic Development and Small Business,



                 Assembly Bill Number 8735 and substitute it











                                                        2231







                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6017,



                 Third Reading Calendar 627.



                            On page 39, Senator Alesi moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Commerce,



                 Economic Development and Small Business,



                 Assembly Bill Number 8734 and substitute it



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6018,



                 Third Reading Calendar 628.



                            On page 39, Senator Saland moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Children and



                 Families, Assembly Bill Number 9023 and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 5484, Third Reading Calendar 637.



                            On page 40, Senator Spano moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Children and



                 Families, Assembly Bill Number 9628 and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 6483, Third Reading Calendar 638.



                            On page 40, Senator Kuhl moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Education,



                 Assembly Bill Number 1682 and substitute it



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6354,



                 Third Reading Calendar 639.



                            And on page 40, Senator Kuhl moves



                 to discharge, from the Committee on Education,











                                                        2232







                 Assembly Bill Number 10577 and substitute it



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6851,



                 Third Reading Calendar 641.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 substitutions are ordered.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 if we could go to the noncontroversial



                 calendar, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 397, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 6045, an



                 act to amend the County Law and others, in



                 relation to the dollar amounts established.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 23.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.











                                                        2233







                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 425, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3794A, an



                 act to amend the Banking Law, the Civil



                 Practice Law and Rules, and the Criminal



                 Procedure Law, in relation to civil forfeiture



                 proceedings.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 468, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 6341, an



                 act to amend the General City Law and others,



                 in relation to requiring.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 July.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.











                                                        2234







                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 501, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3667, an



                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in



                 relation to providing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect January 1, 2002.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 505, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 6449, an act to amend Chapter 414 of the Laws



                 of 1887.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                        2235







                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 517, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 6576,



                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation



                 Law, in relation to environmental protection



                 funding for coastal purposes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 524, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3680, an



                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to



                 electronic equivalents.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This











                                                        2236







                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 526, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5848, an



                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to



                 the thermal imaging camera grant program.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 529, by Member of the Assembly Gunther,



                 Assembly Print Number 10092A, an act enacting



                 the Greenwood Lake Protection Act.











                                                        2237







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This



                 act shall take effect upon enactment into law



                 by the State of New Jersey of legislation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 638, substituted earlier today by Member of



                 the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly Print Number



                 9628, an act to amend Chapter 555 of the Laws



                 of 2000.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.











                                                        2238







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 641, substituted earlier today by Member of



                 the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Print Number



                 10577 -



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay that bill



                 aside, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            Senator Skelos, that completes the



                 controversial reading of the calendar.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 if we could go to the controversial calendar



                 at this time.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 425, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3794A, an



                 act to amend the Banking Law and others, in



                 relation to good behavior allowances.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            Senator Volker.



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    No, no, let me











                                                        2239







                 explain the bill.



                            This bill has been with us for



                 several years also.  It is the Sentencing



                 Reform Act of, now, 2002.  I believe it was



                 initially sent to us by the Governor in 1999.



                            Essentially the provisions of this



                 bill -- well, they're identical to last year.



                 In fact, the amendment is that it's changed



                 from the Sentencing Crime Act of 2001 to the



                 Sentencing Crime Act of 2002.  As far as I



                 know, there's no other changes except maybe



                 some renumbering or whatever, because this is



                 really a comprehensive sentencing reform act



                 that was proposed and was drafted primarily by



                 Jim McGuire, who is the counsel to the



                 Governor.



                            It includes in here provisions



                 relating to the so-called Rockefeller Drug



                 Laws, which really is the heart of what's left



                 of the Rockefeller Drug Laws, which is the



                 very highest penalties.



                            It allows for changes in sentencing



                 so that the person in prison could have his



                 sentence reviewed, who is in for generally 15



                 to 25 to life or whatever, and could get the











                                                        2240







                 sentence reduced to as low as 10 years.  Which



                 in some cases might mean some people would get



                 out.



                            It sets up increased drug treatment



                 diversion programs, primarily in prison.  It



                 provides for enormous changes in money



                 laundering which would allow prosecutors to



                 make -- to do civil forfeiture proceedings



                 against people, for instance, who leave the



                 country, disappear, and even though there's a



                 lot of money out there that could potentially



                 be grabbed, right now under the law in many



                 cases we can't do it.



                            It also -- this is also the bill



                 that provides for 6/7ths.  It's called



                 no-parole sentencing for all nonviolent



                 felons.  In truth, it's about 6/7ths.  The way



                 it works out, an offender must serve at least



                 6/7ths of his or her fixed term of



                 imprisonment and then is subject to parole.



                 Under circumstances, might have to serve the



                 entire sentence and then afterwards would be



                 subject to an additional term of post-parole



                 supervision ranging from one and a half to



                 five years.











                                                        2241







                            It does create also a "drug kingpin



                 provision" which increases the penalties for



                 those who sell large amounts of drugs or in



                 some cases large possessors, very large



                 possessors.



                            And finally, there are two other



                 provisions in this bill.  It provides enhanced



                 felony penalties for drug sellers who use



                 persons under the age of 18; and also the old



                 favorite by the Governor's people that is



                 thrown in a lot of bills, the right of the



                 prosecutor to appeal lenient sentences, unduly



                 lenient sentences, and unduly lenient bail



                 decisions.



                            And that is effectively the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you, Senator Volker.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 107.



                 This act shall take effect January 1, 2003.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar Number 425 are











                                                        2242







                 Senators Andrews, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,



                 L. Krueger, Paterson, Sampson, M. Smith, and



                 Stavisky.  Ayes, 40.  Nays, 8.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 638, substituted earlier today by Member of



                 the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly Print Number



                 9628, an act to amend Chapter 555 of the Laws



                 of 2000.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2 -



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Spano, an explanation has been requested.



                            SENATOR SPANO:    Yes, Madam



                 President.



                            We passed a bill last year that



                 would give the Office of Children and Family



                 Services the authority to review and expunge



                 records if there were unfounded reports, using



                 the standard of clear and convincing evidence,



                 against the parent.











                                                        2243







                            This bill sets a sunset on May 1st,



                 and this would extend -- this would make the



                 bill -- make this law permanent.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Hevesi recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 641, substituted earlier today by Member of



                 the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Print Number



                 10577, an act to amend the Education Law and a



                 chapter of the Laws of 2002 amending the



                 Education Law.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    We're



                 waiting for just a moment.



                            Senator Smith.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,











                                                        2244







                 Madam President.  I request unanimous consent



                 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar



                 Number 425, Bill Number S3794A.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam



                 President, I request unanimous consent to be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 638,



                 Senate 6483.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.



                            Senator Hassell-Thompson.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Madam President.  I would like to be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number



                 638, Senate 6483.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.



                            Senator Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, thank



                 you very much, Madam President.  I would seek



                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the











                                                        2245







                 negative on Calendar Number 425, Senate 3794A.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.



                            Senator Smith again.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Madam



                 President, I apologize.  I forgot to request



                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the



                 negative on Calendar Number 638.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, an explanation has been requested on



                 Calendar Number 641.



                            Can we have order in the chamber,



                 please.



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            This is a chapter amendment to a



                 bill that was passed about two weeks ago in



                 this house.  The bill previously would have



                 required -- that was passed, it was passed in



                 both houses, and is waiting being sent to the



                 Governor for signature on the passage of this



                 chapter amendment.  But that bill would have











                                                        2246







                 required automatic electronic defibrillators



                 to be in school districts effective



                 immediately when a school district had a



                 building with a capacity of more than a



                 thousand people.



                            This chapter amendment goes to



                 define that bill even further, and it does a



                 couple of things.



                            Number one, it delays the



                 implementation date from immediately to



                 September 1, 2002, the thought being that if



                 we impose a mandate with as little cost



                 significance as this has to each school



                 district immediately and that bill were to be



                 signed, say, in the next week or two, we would



                 be doing so without the school districts



                 having the ability to build into their budget



                 the purchase of a couple of defibrillators.



                            So the delay was put off until



                 September when in fact the school districts,



                 as you know, right now are in fact adopting



                 budgets or will be very shortly, within the



                 next month.



                            Also, it went to -- because there



                 was some question as to the definition of who











                                                        2247







                 this applied to, we were more definitive in



                 that definition and made it applicable



                 essentially to every school district with a



                 building, and also applied to certain



                 circumstances where there might be a need for



                 this type of a device at extraordinary -- or I



                 should say extra-activities like soccer games,



                 baseball games, things of that nature.



                            So that's the essence of what this



                 chapter amendment is all about, Senator.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam



                 President, will the sponsor yield for a



                 question, a couple of questions, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you yield for some questions?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'll be happy to.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Could you



                 tell me what the definition of instructional



                 school facility is in this bill?  Is that



                 phrase used anyplace else in the Education



                 Law?











                                                        2248







                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes, it is.  It's



                 in the -- I believe in the basic Education



                 Law.  And it's where we -- it means wherever



                 we have classrooms, Senator.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    So if there



                 were a modular classroom, a portable classroom



                 that was next to a primary school, this would



                 require the on-site presence of an AED in the



                 portable classroom portion of that building;



                 isn't that correct?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    I believe that's



                 correct, Senator.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And if there



                 were several different portable classrooms on



                 the same side, it would require a separate AED



                 in each one of the portable classrooms,



                 because they're all separate facilities; isn't



                 that correct, Senator?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, not



                 necessarily, Senator.  If they're all on the



                 same piece of property and contingent to each



                 other, then there's only one necessary, needed



                 for that piece of property.



                            In other words, we're not going to



                 have every little classroom subdivided into











                                                        2249







                 sections, Senator, and require a school



                 district to, if they are under a temporary



                 circumstance with a lot of mobile classrooms,



                 to have, say, 45 of them when they're all in



                 walking distance of each other.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Madam President, if Senator Kuhl will continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    With all due



                 respect, Senator Kuhl, where in the bill does



                 it say that?  This bill says in each



                 instructional school facility.  It doesn't



                 talk about any limitation of portable



                 classrooms on the site, it doesn't talk



                 about -- as you described, and I think you



                 properly would like it interpreted that way.



                 But where in the bill does it say that?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, I think it's



                 in the language itself, Senator.  Each



                 classroom is not a facility.  And also it











                                                        2250







                 talks about -- prefaced to that language



                 that's added, there's the language "on-site."



                            So by the pure nature of all of



                 those words when put together, not singling



                 them out individually, Senator, I think the



                 definition is clear.  And that is where you



                 have on-site extracurricular, or I should say



                 scholastic facilities, then in fact there will



                 be the requirement that there is an AED



                 available.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.



                 Through you, Madam President, if Senator Kuhl



                 will continue to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'll be happy to,



                 yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What is the



                 cost of an automatic -- this defibrillator



                 equipment?  What is the cost per machine of



                 each one of these machines?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    I think it varies,



                 Senator, from place to place and from state to











                                                        2251







                 state.  We have heard the maximum cost being



                 somewhere in the vicinity of $3,000 if you



                 were to go out as an individual and purchase



                 one of these devices.



                            We've also heard that the State of



                 Pennsylvania, when they in fact went and



                 bought every one of their schools an AED, and



                 they did this on a state bid, that the prices



                 were somewhere around $1,400.



                            Every indication we have from the



                 industry is because of the demand for these



                 types of devices that in fact the price will



                 be coming down to somewhere in the



                 neighborhood of a thousand dollars.



                            And there are different types of



                 the AEDs.  There are some that are applicable



                 primarily to younger students, younger people,



                 there are some that would be more applicable



                 to you and I.  So that renders a different



                 cost, if you will, to each one of those



                 devices.



                            But it's within that range,



                 somewhere from $1,000 to $3,000.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  If



                 Senator Kuhl will continue to yield, Madam











                                                        2252







                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    In fact,



                 Senator Kuhl, the one thing we're clearly not



                 doing in this bill is buying these machines



                 ourselves; isn't that correct?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, I -



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    You mentioned



                 earlier about the State of Pennsylvania used



                 its buying power and went out and bought all



                 these machines for their school districts at a



                 cost of $1,400.



                            The one thing this bill does not



                 provide is state money to pay for the



                 defibrillators; isn't that correct?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    This bill does not



                 provide any appropriation for purchase, that's



                 correct, Senator.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Madam President, if Senator Kuhl will continue



                 to yield.











                                                        2253







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    I'd be happy to.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is it the



                 intention in this bill, or any of its



                 sponsors, that the State of New York buy these



                 defibrillators for our 729 school districts



                 and the probably 4,000 or 5,000 buildings that



                 this would apply to?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    It's not the



                 intention of this bill to provide an



                 appropriation for that purpose, Senator.



                 There are a number of other types of methods



                 of obtaining funding for the purchase.



                            What you also need to understand,



                 Senator, is that not every school district has



                 or will be required to have this mandate



                 thrust upon them before actually complying.



                            There are many school districts in



                 my Senate district that have already purchased



                 AEDs because they recognize the potential



                 lifesaving capabilities of these devices and



                 so are not in need of this type of direction











                                                        2254







                 coming from the state to actually provide for



                 the safe environment for the students that



                 attend schools there.  And so they have,



                 within their budgets, already appropriated



                 money for those purchases.



                            There are some other opportunities



                 in other kinds of programs, through private



                 foundations, that are providing for funding



                 for this type of purchase.



                            And I know that many of my



                 colleagues on this side of the aisle -- I



                 can't speak for those on your side of the



                 aisle -- have already participated in making



                 funds available for school districts to make



                 this kind of purchase over and above their



                 budget allocation.



                            But there is nothing in this bill,



                 Senator, which would appropriate some money.



                            Now, as you know, we don't have an



                 agreement on this upcoming budget.  Many of us



                 anticipate that in fact there will be



                 additional appropriations available to school



                 districts as part of our ability to maintain



                 the low profile on levying taxes on real



                 property owners.  And so I anticipate that











                                                        2255







                 there may be some funding available for this



                 exact purpose in this next year's budget.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Okay.  Madam



                 President, if the Senator will continue to



                 yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is the



                 purchase of an AED currently a reimbursable



                 expense from the State of New York through the



                 Department of Education in our formulas?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    No.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    So if there



                 is no -- again, through you, Madam President,



                 if Senator Kuhl will continue to yield.



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    So if there's



                 no appropriation in the state budget and these











                                                        2256







                 are not reimbursable or aidable expenses for



                 the school districts, this cost would have to



                 be borne by the school districts standing



                 alone; isn't that a fair statement?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, Senator, one



                 of the reasons this bill is before the house,



                 this chapter amendment, is to provide for



                 every opportunity for financing the purchase



                 of these devices to be exhausted, up until



                 September 1st of the year 2002, which is



                 roughly five months away.



                            And in the interim, we are going to



                 have hopefully two budgets adopted, one at the



                 state level, which will provide significant



                 funding -- and I think the tune is something



                 like $15 billion that will be finally



                 appropriated to school districts to help them



                 out.  And what we're talking about, Senator,



                 here is roughly a couple-of-million-dollar



                 purchase, if every school district hasn't



                 already purchased that.



                            So you're talking about, if you



                 will, peanuts when it comes to dollar and cost



                 appropriations in this particular example, in



                 this particular requirement.











                                                        2257







                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator, the



                 bill uses the language that the Commissioner



                 of Education would consult with the



                 Commissioner of Health to determine the



                 quantities of AEDs that would be available in



                 each school facility.



                            Does this bill envision that they



                 would have to purchase more than one,



                 depending on the size of the facility?  If



                 there were 2,000 or 3,000 students in a major



                 high school, that the Commissioner of Health



                 could conclude that they actually need more



                 than one because the building is so big it's



                 too far away and therefore it would require



                 them to purchase multiple machines for a



                 single facility?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, Senator, let











                                                        2258







                 me help you out with your reading of the bill,



                 because it's very obvious that you excluded -



                 and I don't know whether it's intentional or



                 not intentional, but you also excluded the



                 words "and types."



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I was going



                 to ask about that.



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Well, okay.  Well,



                 that also is part of the overall language.



                 And you have to understand, as I tried to



                 indicate to you before, that where you have



                 young students and you have older students,



                 there may be the necessity to have different



                 types of AEDs that are applicable in that



                 case.



                            So when you read the language -



                 not singularly word by word, Senator, but when



                 you piece it all together, what you should



                 understand is that there may be occasion when,



                 in a school district, that a school may need



                 go different types of AEDs to accommodate all



                 the students who are there.



                            So don't try to piecemeal this.  I



                 think you do yourself a disservice, Senator,



                 if you try to piecemeal this and not











                                                        2259







                 understand what is intended by this bill.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Madam President, I still want to go back to



                 the quantities.  I understand the issue of



                 types -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Excuse



                 me, Senator Dollinger.  Do you wish Senator



                 Kuhl to continue to yield?



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I would.  I



                 was going to do that after I said something,



                 but I'll ask him to yield now.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Isn't it a



                 fact, Senator Kuhl, that there are different



                 types of AEDs for children, for example, under



                 the age of 8 years old?  So a school that had



                 a population -- let's say a smaller school



                 district in your neck of the woods that had a



                 single-building school district, all the way



                 from high school down to kindergarten, that



                 they would need one for smaller children and











                                                        2260







                 then one for adults?  Isn't that a fair



                 conclusion?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    That's entirely



                 possible.



                            And that's the reason for the



                 language, Senator, that the Commissioner of



                 Health should get together with the



                 Commissioner of Education and make that



                 determination, so that they're not exposing



                 any segment of the student population to some



                 jeopardy when they thought they had all the



                 potential risks covered.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Correct.



                            Through you, Madam President, if



                 Senator Kuhl will continue to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Isn't it also



                 likely, Senator Kuhl, that depending on the



                 size of the building -- for example, a big



                 high school -- that they may need several



                 adult defibrillators in the building in order











                                                        2261







                 to be able to meet the requirements of the



                 Commissioner of Health under this statutory



                 language?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator, it is



                 possible that in any type of kind of a school



                 facility that they will need two or three.



                            Because, as you know, one of the



                 parts of the school curriculum is to have



                 extracurricular athletics.  And in the



                 particular case, you may have a school



                 district that has two or three teams playing



                 at different times in different locations.



                 They may be either on the premises or they may



                 be located at some athletic field a couple of



                 miles away.



                            Those particular circumstances



                 would require an AED device to be at those



                 locations when there is that interscholastic



                 competition.



                            So to cover the risk, we have not



                 tried to define the risk in its totality in



                 this bill.  And that's what you have to



                 understand, is that we don't want this house



                 or any other house to ever have to answer the



                 question why wasn't there an AED available for











                                                        2262







                 my son or my daughter when they suffered this



                 particular tragic incident.



                            We want that determination to be



                 made on an individual basis by people who are



                 knowing -- that being the Commissioner of the



                 Health and the Commissioner of Education -- so



                 that every school district has the maximum



                 coverage.



                            Now, do we anticipate that that is



                 going to lead to the purchase of extra



                 thousands upon thousands of AEDs?  The answer



                 is no.  But each circumstance, in my



                 particular opinion, should be surveyed to the



                 fullest to make sure that this maximum risk



                 exposure is diminished to practically zero, if



                 not zero.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The











                                                        2263







                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator Kuhl,



                 as I read this bill, whenever a



                 school-sponsored extracurricular event occurs,



                 there must be a trained technician who knows



                 how to work an AED on the site.  Is that



                 correct?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    That is correct.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And would



                 that apply in situations where senior citizens



                 are using a school building for adult



                 education?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Adult education?



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If it's



                 approved by the school district.  It is, in



                 the words of the language, it's a



                 school-sponsored -- it's an extracurricular



                 event.  It's been approved by the school



                 district.



                            Almost every school district that I



                 represent says that you can't have adult



                 education in the public high school unless



                 it's approved by the Board of Education.



                 Therefore, that would make it a



                 school-approved extracurricular event.











                                                        2264







                            SENATOR KUHL:    Right.  And in



                 that particular case, if it was a



                 school-sanctioned extracurricular event, then



                 there would have to be somebody who was



                 trained in the device there.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Madam President, if Senator Kuhl will continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If they



                 opened one room in the high school and there



                 were six seniors who came to that adult



                 education, would the school district have to



                 pay the cost of having a technician trained in



                 the AED available on-site under this bill,



                 even if there are only a half a dozen seniors?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Senator, the bill



                 does not direct the cost appropriation.  What



                 it simply says is that -- and you can read the











                                                        2265







                 bill -- is that that school district will have



                 somebody trained in the use of the facility



                 there.



                            Now, that could be a senior citizen



                 who was trained in that facility as part of



                 that education.  It could be a school nurse.



                 It could be anybody who is trained in that



                 particular operation of the equipment.



                            Now, for your information, Senator,



                 you should know that we have been told that



                 the training is extremely extensive; it takes



                 all of about 15 minutes to train somebody how



                 to use this machine.  They're essentially



                 idiot-proof, if you will.  Once you know the



                 basics, there's nothing that you can do in the



                 administration of this machine to solve the



                 problem wrongly.



                            And all it takes is 15 minutes, and



                 that is anticipated as an additional training



                 part of a normal CPR kind of training program.



                 And there's even some discussion about having



                 that as part of the training program that's



                 addressed to students as part of bills that



                 we've actually passed here, Senator.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,











                                                        2266







                 Madam President, if Senator Kuhl will continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator continues to yield.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is there any



                 provision in this bill that makes the cost of



                 training an aidable expense for school



                 districts?



                            SENATOR KUHL:    No.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam



                 President, I want to thank Senator Kuhl.  I



                 appreciate his candor, as always, his accurate



                 and decisive answers to the questions



                 certainly that I ask him.



                            Madam President, I'm going to vote



                 no on this bill, and let me tell you why.  We



                 have talked in this chamber forever about



                 let's end unfunded mandates.  Senator Rath



                 used to sponsor a bill.  We would debate the



                 unfunded mandates, and we'd talk about, okay,



                 if we really believe in unfunded mandates, why



                 don't we just stop doing it?  Why don't we











                                                        2267







                 just restrain ourselves?



                            Why do we need to pass a bill that



                 says we're going to have no unfunded mandates,



                 but when we get to one, right here, when we



                 say to the school districts:  Here's what



                 we're going to do, we're going to require that



                 in each instructional school facility, each -



                 that's the word, Senator Kuhl, that I focus



                 on, "each."



                            That means that if you have



                 portable classrooms on a site or if you have



                 the bus garage where you happen to be teaching



                 automotive skills, you're going to have an AED



                 in there.  You're going to have to have an AED



                 in portable classrooms.



                            You're going to have to have



                 AEDs -- this bill says that the Commissioner



                 of Health could decide that in a single high



                 school you need a half a dozen of them,



                 because it's a big high school.  You've got



                 to -- as Senator Kuhl I think properly points



                 out, if an AED is going to work, it's got to



                 be available on relatively short notice.



                            But the interesting thing that



                 Senator Kuhl said is that this would be done











                                                        2268







                 on an individual basis.  We're going to have



                 somebody from the state go in and decide where



                 to put AEDs on an individual basis.



                            Well, the best way to do that, from



                 my point of view, is let's leave it up to



                 school districts and school boards to do this.



                 They're the people who are familiar with this.



                 They know what the individual basis is.  They



                 know what the individual needs are.  They're



                 out in the field.  They have people in the



                 portable classrooms.



                            They can make this judgment best



                 for themselves.  We don't need to make it in



                 this hall.  We can leave it up to the people



                 who are elected locally or close, to the



                 people who, quite frankly, will have to deal



                 with the consequences of someone if they died



                 because of lack of the ability to resuscitate



                 them.



                            Why is it that we assume school



                 boards can't do it themselves?  Why is it we



                 assume that they won't do this?



                            In addition, Senator Kuhl described



                 this as peanuts, this is a tiny expense.  I



                 would just point out to my friends across the











                                                        2269







                 aisle, you feed something enough peanuts, and



                 suddenly it's an elephant.  Suddenly it's one



                 of those big, walking, stalking, stomping,



                 unfunded mandates that we let loose across



                 this state.  And after they've stomped around



                 and caused all this havoc with our school



                 districts and elsewhere, then we say, okay, we



                 can come in and somehow control this elephant.



                            I would suggest this is one of the



                 most beneficially intended elephants that



                 we're about to let loose.



                            I also think that this has very



                 substantial hidden costs to school districts.



                 You wait and see, this will be a trial



                 lawyer's dream.  I'm a trial lawyer, Madam



                 President.  I love those instances where we



                 create higher levels of culpability on the



                 part of public institutions, where we say to



                 them:  You have to have this piece of



                 equipment, and the first time it isn't there



                 and the first time that the trained staff



                 person is on a lunch break instead of



                 operating the machine and someone dies, it



                 will cost the school districts of this state



                 many, many, many dollars.











                                                        2270







                            Now, Senator Kuhl has properly put



                 in a waiver provision that says if somebody



                 fails to do it right or is doing this in an



                 emergency situation, then the school district



                 is not liable.



                            I would suggest, Senator Kuhl, the



                 greater liability risk that you're exposing



                 school districts to is what happens -- not



                 whether they administer the machine properly,



                 but what happens when the district fails to



                 provide the machine in a ready and appropriate



                 place, and someone dies.  The cost to a school



                 district is going to be out of sight.



                            Make no bones about it, by passing



                 this law we are creating a standard for



                 negligence.  When school districts fail to do



                 it, through whatever means possible, whatever



                 happens -- there's a lock on the door and they



                 can't get in to get the AED, there isn't a



                 sufficiently trained staffer in the room -



                 this is going to expose our school districts



                 to unbelievable liability from the plaintiff's



                 bar.



                            Senator Kuhl and those who vote for



                 it -- and I voted for it last time.  But I'm











                                                        2271







                 going to vote against it this time because I



                 think if you believe in unfunded mandates,



                 this is the right thing to vote for.  If you



                 believe that we ought to tell the school



                 districts what to do about protecting their



                 children, then go ahead and vote for it.



                            I have told many, many people many,



                 many times I'll vote for some unfunded



                 mandates.  I'll vote for those that make



                 sense.  But in this instance, there's no



                 evidence that the school districts can't do



                 this themselves.  There's no way that we



                 should be requiring them to buy thousands and



                 thousands of machines.



                            I have an estimate from the Monroe



                 County School Boards Association that says



                 this will cost $15 million across the state



                 just for the purchase of the equipment.  The



                 training, my guess is, will cost millions



                 more.



                            I have a report from a physician



                 who says these machines are extremely



                 sensitive machines, they do take -- despite



                 Senator Kuhl's comment that they may be



                 foolproof in their operation, there are











                                                        2272







                 potentially significant consequences of their



                 misuse.



                            So from my point of view, Madam



                 President, I keep voting against these



                 unfunded mandates, even one like this that has



                 enormous popularity, even one that may have a



                 beneficial intent.  But when my colleagues are



                 willing to buy these ourselves, pay for them



                 ourselves, give them to school districts, like



                 apparently our wise brothers did in



                 Pennsylvania, I'll be the first to vote for



                 it.



                            When we require them to buy it



                 themselves because we think it's the right



                 thing to do and assume they won't do it,



                 that's an unfunded mandate.  It's unfair.



                 It's something everybody in this house talks



                 about but is never willing to vote against.  I



                 will be one of those who does vote against it.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Alesi.



                            SENATOR ALESI:    Madam President,



                 on the bill.



                            With regard to some of Senator



                 Dollinger's comments, and with all respect,











                                                        2273







                 the Senator mentioned that he is so extremely



                 concerned about the liability factor.  I would



                 suggest that in this state where litigation



                 seems to be so appealing to the trial lawyers,



                 that the problem of liability might have more



                 to do with the trial lawyers and their



                 interest in suing for nearly everything.



                            Secondly, with regard to his fears



                 about a $15 million cost across the state, I



                 would simply ask:  How much is a life worth



                 when a trial lawyer is suing somebody?



                            Thank you, Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you.



                            Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            I recently met with the parents of



                 two young people who died on school premises,



                 during school activities, for lack of the



                 immediate need for CPR or a defibrillator.



                 And I believe if you would have met -- the



                 other senators would have met these parents, I



                 think they would have been equally sensitive



                 to the merits of this bill.











                                                        2274







                            Yes, it requires the school



                 districts to spend some money.  I don't



                 believe that the expense has any significance



                 towards the loss of life.  I don't believe



                 that the expense is overwhelming to a school



                 district.



                            And I believe the school districts,



                 while I have some concerns on the liability,



                 as has been brought up on the floor and well



                 answered by Senator Alesi, notwithstanding



                 those concerns, I believe the school districts



                 do want to do the right thing and they will



                 buy these defibrillators so that our young



                 people on school premises have some protection



                 and the parents feel that their children are



                 not that far removed from immediate first aid



                 or help when it's needed.



                            Thank you, Madam President.  I



                 support the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam



                 President, just to respond to my two



                 colleagues.  And again, I respect their view



                 on this bill.  I voted for it the first time











                                                        2275







                 around too.  I've learned a lot about it since



                 then.



                            I would just suggest that if we



                 really believed, Senator Morahan, that school



                 districts were going to do this, why don't we



                 buy them ourselves?  If we think this is such



                 a good idea and it's peanuts, as Senator Kuhl



                 describes it, let's put an appropriation in



                 the bill for $15 million to buy them



                 ourselves.  Let's put our money where our



                 principles are.  Instead, we put our



                 principles and say, oh, the cost?  Well,



                 you've got to pay for that yourself.  The



                 training?  You've got to pay for that



                 yourself.



                            And even as Senator Kuhl admits,



                 it's not even an aidable expense.  We won't



                 even reimburse you after you buy it.  We're



                 forcing you to pay for it.



                            I would suggest, Senator Morahan,



                 Senator Alesi, Senator Kuhl, this is a great



                 idea.  Let's pay for it ourselves and make it



                 even a better idea instead of making it an



                 idea that has words behind it but no money.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator











                                                        2276







                 Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    I just have one



                 question for Senator Dollinger.  Would he



                 propose that we would pay for fire



                 extinguishers as well and other equipment for



                 safety?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Dollinger, do you yield -



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Is he asking



                 me to yield?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    I



                 believe he is asking you to yield, Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    What was the



                 question, Madam President?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    I'll restate



                 the question.



                            Would you propose, then, if we have



                 to pay for these, that we start thinking about



                 paying for the fire extinguishers and those



                 sorts of devices that are mandated to be on



                 premise?



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Madam











                                                        2277







                 President, I believe that if you're buying



                 fire extinguishers, they're aidable building



                 equipment in our public schools.  I believe



                 that's a capital equipment purchase, I think



                 it's an aidable expense, unless I'm mistaken.



                 I think we've always paid for those.  We



                 always reimburse the school districts for



                 those costs.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any



                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Kuhl, to explain his vote.



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  Just briefly.



                            I heard what Senator Dollinger has



                 to say, and I wanted to thank him for his



                 opposition.  It seems to me that he has melded



                 the support for this bill unanimously on this











                                                        2278







                 side of the aisle, and, I think, on his side



                 of the aisle except for himself.



                            It would seem to me, and I would



                 just remind him, you know, there are times



                 that we talk about mandates.  But this state,



                 we have a priority to make sure that our



                 schools are safe for our children.



                            Last year we passed in this house a



                 significant piece of legislation which was



                 aimed at the violence that was in our schools.



                 We did things like set up criteria for



                 character education.  We talked about



                 listing -- you know, having school districts



                 design actually acceptable conduct.  And the



                 list went on and on and on.



                            And that was an attempt by us, the



                 agency who is charged with the responsibility



                 for these children who attend schools, which



                 has a criteria that is established by a Board



                 of Regents, which is a state facility.  This



                 particular piece of legislation goes to try to



                 make that area where they spend, at their



                 ages, most of their waking hours, safe.



                            And that's what you have to



                 understand, Senator.  There is a











                                                        2279







                 responsibility that we have.  You cannot dodge



                 that and aim that and shift that to the local



                 community in hopes that they'll do that.  My



                 comments to your comments, Senator, are, you



                 know, you can be penny-smart but you're being



                 awful damn pound-foolish if you let one child



                 die because there's a lack of an AED in a



                 school district.



                            So I cast my vote in the



                 affirmative on this piece of legislation,



                 Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I echo what



                 Senator Kuhl says.  And it's a vote that we



                 should all take in the affirmative.



                            I'm rising basically to express my



                 strong concern about the constant cheap shots



                 that are always thrown at so-called trial



                 lawyers, the world is bad because of trial



                 lawyers.



                            The fact of the matter is that



                 since this country was formed, people get



                 injured from various things.  And as a result,



                 we have a choice.  We could always, in











                                                        2280







                 government, pay fully for that injury under



                 all circumstances in order to compensate the



                 individual for the cost of whatever the



                 problem may be.  Or we can hold the individual



                 or company responsible for their negligence



                 for causing an injury to the others.



                            I am embarrassed, quite frankly,



                 when I see some of these advertisements on TV



                 by trial lawyers.  They do not accurately



                 reflect the job of someone who is truly trying



                 to protect the interest of someone who is



                 harmed as a result of the negligence of



                 others.



                            How this debate could have



                 degenerated into a shot at trial lawyers is



                 totally beyond me, and I really, really resent



                 it.  I think it's wrong.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the



                 affirmative.



                            Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just to



                 explain my vote.



                            I hope Senator DeFrancisco at least



                 understands from my perspective, although I











                                                        2281







                 raised the issue of an expansion of school



                 liability, in my opinion, under this bill, I



                 certainly have no ill will against trial



                 lawyers, being one myself.  I do think it's an



                 obligation I have to talk about the potential



                 that this bill will significantly increase



                 liability of school districts when unfortunate



                 incidents occur.



                            But I do just want to add one



                 thing.  Senator Kuhl, you've suggested I'm



                 being penny-wise and pound-foolish.  I'm



                 actually willing to be $15 million wiser.



                 I'll vote for this bill with an appropriation



                 in it.  Tack the appropriation in, and I'm



                 willing to spend it.



                            And then I can look school



                 districts in the eye and say, Guess what, I



                 haven't made a decision in Albany that I know



                 how to protect children better than you do.  I



                 assume that school districts have the



                 protection of children as their highest



                 priority.  Highest priority.  And I'm willing



                 to say to them, I think you ought to have AEDs



                 in your school.  And I think it's so important



                 I'm willing to pay for it.











                                                        2282







                            I would suggest, Madam President,



                 I'm not being penny-wise and pound-foolish,



                 I'm trying to be $15 million wise and say I'm



                 willing to pay for that.



                            Give me a chance to pay for it, and



                 I will do that; I will support this bill.



                 Until we're willing to pay for it and not



                 simply tell them you've got to do it but we



                 won't pay for it, I think that's unfair, and



                 it becomes an unfunded mandate, another in a



                 long string that this house talks against and



                 then votes for.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the



                 negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator DeFrancisco.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I request



                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the



                 negative on Calendar 524, Senate 3680.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.











                                                        2283







                            Senator Velella, that completes the



                 controversial reading of the calendar.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, may we return to motions and



                 resolutions.  I believe there are three



                 privileged resolutions at the desk by Senator



                 Morahan.  May we have the titles read and move



                 for their immediate adoption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Motions



                 and resolutions.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator



                 Morahan, Legislative Resolution Number 4985,



                 honoring Mona and Ira Litwak upon the occasion



                 of their designation for special recognition



                 by the Montebello Jewish Center on April 21,



                 2002.



                            By Senator Morahan, Legislative



                 Resolution Number 4986, honoring Denise and



                 Martin Greenwood upon the occasion of their



                 designation for special recognition by the



                 Montebello Jewish Center on April 21, 2002.



                            And by Senator Morahan, Legislative



                 Resolution Number 4987, honoring Allan



                 Garfield upon the occasion of his designation











                                                        2284







                 for special recognition by the Montebello



                 Jewish Center on April 21, 2002.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 question is on the resolutions.  All in favor



                 will signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 resolutions are adopted.



                            Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, is there any housekeeping at the



                 desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,



                 there is.



                            Senator Meier.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on

                 page number 10 I offer the following



                 amendments to Calendar Number 214, Senate



                 Print Number 2672B, and ask that said bill



                 retain its place on the Third Reading











                                                        2285







                 Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 amendments are received, and the bill will



                 retain its place on the Third Reading



                 Calendar.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Meier.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    On behalf of



                 Senator DeFrancisco, on page number 26 I offer



                 the following amendments to Calendar Number



                 496, Senate Print Number 6671, and ask that



                 said bill retain its place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 amendments are received, and the bill will



                 retain its place on the Third Reading



                 Calendar.



                            Senator Meier.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            On behalf of Senator Libous, I now



                 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 3667,



                 which is at the desk.











                                                        2286







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 501, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3667, an



                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Meier.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,



                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which



                 this bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will call the roll on



                 reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Meier.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,



                 I now offer the following amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 amendments are received.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you, Senator Meier.











                                                        2287







                            Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, could you recognize Senator



                 Montgomery.  I believe she has a request.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam



                 President.  I would like to be recorded in the



                 negative on Calendar 425.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection.



                            Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, there being no further business, I



                 move we adjourn until Monday, April 22nd, at



                 3:00 p.m., intervening days being legislative



                 days.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    On



                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until



                 Monday, April 22nd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening



                 days being legislative days.



                            (Whereupon, at 12:03 p.m., the



                 Senate adjourned.)