Regular Session - April 23, 2002

                                                            2347







                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE











                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD



















                             ALBANY, NEW YORK



                              April 23, 2002



                                 3:07 p.m.











                              REGULAR SESSION















            LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President



            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary



































                                                        2348







                           P R O C E E D I N G S



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will



                 please come to order.



                            I ask everyone present to please



                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of



                 Allegiance.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited



                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)



                            THE PRESIDENT:    With us today



                 once again is a gentleman who needs no



                 introduction, the Reverend Peter G. Young from



                 Blessed Sacrament Church, in Bolton Landing,



                 to give the invocation.



                            REVEREND YOUNG:    Let us pray.



                            When we meet in session, sometimes



                 we stop listening and use our communication



                 skills to advocate only for our own



                 constituents' agenda.  God, You want us to



                 communicate with respect and care to each



                 other, to each Senator in this chamber, so



                 that we might show our New York State citizens



                 and constituents our example of togetherness



                 for the common good of New York State.



                            Help us to have open ears and



                 hospitable minds, as we listen, as we share,











                                                        2349







                 and as we build the community, instead of



                 disunity, for New York State citizens.



                            Amen.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the



                 Journal.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,



                 Monday, April 22, the Senate met pursuant to



                 adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, April 21,



                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate



                 adjourned.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without



                 objection, the Journal stands approved as



                 read.



                            Presentation of petitions.



                            Messages from the Assembly.



                            Messages from the Governor.



                            Reports of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,



                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the



                 following bills:



                            Senate Print 6624, by Senator



                 Bruno, an act to amend the State Finance Law;



                            7304, by the Senate Committee on



                 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 405 of the Laws











                                                        2350







                 of 1999;



                            And Senate Print 7305, by the



                 Senate Committee on Rules, an act making



                 appropriations for the support of government.



                            Senator Larkin, from the Committee



                 on Racing, Gaming and Wagering, reports:



                            Senate Print 1663, by Senator



                 Larkin, an act to amend the Business



                 Corporation Law;



                            3897, by Senator Larkin, an act to



                 amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and



                 Breeding Law;



                            4137, by Senator Larkin, an act to



                 amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and



                 Breeding Law;



                            4662, by Senator Padavan, an act to



                 amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and



                 Breeding Law;



                            4684, by Senator Larkin, an act to



                 repeal Section 369E of the General Business



                 Law;



                            5228, by Senator DeFrancisco, an



                 act to amend the General Business Law;



                            And 7018, by Senator Larkin, an act



                 to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and











                                                        2351







                 Breeding Law.



                            Senator Balboni, from the Committee



                 on Water Resources, reports:



                            Senate Print 1711, by Senator



                 Sampson, an act to amend the Environmental



                 Conservation Law;



                            And Senate Print 6933, by Senator



                 Balboni, an act to amend the Environmental



                 Conservation Law.



                            Senator Fuschillo, from the



                 Committee on Consumer Protection, reports:



                            Senate Print 801, by Senator Alesi,



                 an act to amend the General Business Law;



                            5783, by Senator Skelos, an act to



                 amend a chapter of the Laws of 2001;



                            6072A, by Senator Marcellino, an



                 act to amend the General Business Law;



                            6741, by Senator Skelos, an act to



                 amend the General Business Law;



                            6949, by Senator Velella, an act to



                 amend the General Business Law;



                            And 7067, by Senator Spano, an act



                 to amend the General Business Law.



                            Senator Lack, from the Committee on



                 Judiciary, reports:











                                                        2352







                            Senate Print 1389B, by Senator



                 Lack, an act to amend the Estates, Powers and



                 Trusts Law;



                            1916, by Senator Lack, an act to



                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            3000A, by Senator Alesi, an act to



                 amend the General Business Law;



                            3366A, by Senator Lack, an act to



                 amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law;



                            3707, by Senator Hannon, an act to



                 amend the Lien Law;



                            5513A, by Senator Lack, an act to



                 amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law;



                            6395, by Senator Velella, an act to



                 amend the New York City Civil Court Act;



                            And Senate Print 6623A, by Senator



                 Bruno, concurrent resolution of the Senate and



                 Assembly opposing amendments to Article VII of



                 the Constitution.



                            Senator Padavan, from the Committee



                 on Cities, reports:



                            Senate Print 1720A, by Senator



                 Sampson, an act authorizing the City of New



                 York;



                            4001, by Senator Larkin, an act to











                                                        2353







                 authorize the City of Newburgh;



                            6553A, by Senator Padavan, an act



                 to amend the Real Property Tax Law and others;



                            And Senate Print 6772, by Senator



                 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Administrative



                 Code of the City of New York.



                            Senator Hannon, from the Committee



                 on Health, reports:



                            Senate Print 3954, by Senator



                 Velella, an act to amend the Public Health



                 Law;



                            4089A, by Senator Hoffmann, an act



                 to amend the Public Health Law;



                            4304, by Senator Spano, an act to



                 amend the Public Health Law;



                            4989A, by Senator Fuschillo, an act



                 to amend the Public Health Law;



                            6228, by Senator Spano, an act to



                 amend the Public Health Law;



                            6327, by Senator Johnson, an act to



                 amend Chapter 572 of the Laws of 1994;



                            6876, by Senator Maziarz, an act to



                 amend Chapter 841 of the Laws of 1987;



                            6877, by Senator Maziarz, an act to



                 amend Chapter 433 of the Laws of 1997;











                                                        2354







                            6929, by Senator Hannon, an act to



                 amend the Public Health Law;



                            And 7163, by Senator Stafford, an



                 act to authorize certain health care



                 professionals.



                            Senator Velella, from the Committee



                 on Labor, reports:



                            Senate Print 6513, by Senator



                 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Workers'



                 Compensation Law;



                            And Senate Print 6713, by Senator



                 Velella, an act to amend the Workers'



                 Compensation Law.



                            Senator Maziarz, from the Committee



                 on Aging, reports:



                            Senate Print 1917, by Senator



                 Larkin, an act to amend the Real Property Tax



                 Law;



                            6360, by Senator Velella, an act to



                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            And 7101, by Senator Maziarz, an



                 act to amend the Executive Law.



                            Senator Rath, from the Committee on



                 Local Government, reports:



                            Senate Print 1627, by Senator











                                                        2355







                 Velella, an act to amend the Real Property Tax



                 Law;



                            1842, by Senator Maltese, an act to



                 amend the Municipal Home Rule Law;



                            2586, by Senator Fuschillo, an act



                 to authorize;



                            2628A, by Senator Rath, an act to



                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            2654, by Senator Larkin, an act to



                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            3092, by Senator Stafford, an act



                 to authorize;



                            3216, by Senator Saland, an act to



                 authorize;



                            3901, by Senator Fuschillo, an act



                 authorizing the assessor;



                            4017, by Senator Balboni, an act



                 authorizing the assessor;



                            4943B, by Senator Leibell, an act



                 to authorize the Town of Putnam Valley;



                            5391A, by Senator Wright, an act to



                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            5397, by Senator Meier, an act to



                 authorize the Town of Verona;



                            5634, by Senator Kuhl, an act to











                                                        2356







                 amend the Town Law;



                            5770, by Senator Johnson, an act to



                 authorize;



                            5817, by Senator Hannon, an act to



                 amend Chapter 283 of the Laws of 2001;



                            6172, by Senator Balboni, an act



                 authorizing;



                            6361, by Senator Skelos, an act to



                 authorize;



                            6384, by Senator Skelos, an act



                 authorizing the assessor;



                            6387, by Senator Skelos, an act



                 authorizing the assessor;



                            6388, by Senator Skelos, an act



                 authorizing;



                            6417, by Senator Trunzo, an act in



                 relation to authorizing;



                            6620, by Senator Skelos, an act to



                 authorize;



                            6645, by Senator LaValle, an act to



                 authorize;



                            6682, by Senator Balboni, an act to



                 amend the Nassau County Civil Divisions Act;



                            6703, by Senator Leibell, an act



                 authorizing;











                                                        2357







                            And Senate Print 6724, by Senator



                 Farley, an act in relation.



                            Senator Trunzo, from the Committee



                 on Transportation, reports:



                            Senate Print 3830A, by Senator



                 Larkin, an act to amend the Vehicle and



                 Traffic Law;



                            4047, by Senator Trunzo, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            5672, by Senator Leibell, an act to



                 amend the Public Authorities Law;



                            6068, by Senator Spano, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            6324, by Senator Alesi, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            6438, by Senator Nozzolio, an act



                 to amend the Highway Law;



                            6534, by Senator DeFrancisco, an



                 act to amend the Highway Law;



                            And 6781, by Senator Maziarz, an



                 act to amend Highway Law.



                            Senator Kuhl, from the Committee on



                 Education, reports:



                            Senate Print 1893, by Senator Kuhl,



                 an act to amend the Education Law;











                                                        2358







                            2648, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;



                            3062, by Senator Kuhl, an act to



                 amend the Education Law;



                            4154, by Senator Kuhl, an act to



                 amend the Education Law;



                            And 6716, by Senator Kuhl, an act



                 to amend the Education Law.



                            Senator Wright, from the Committee



                 on Energy and Telecommunications, reports:



                            Senate Print 579A, by Senator



                 DeFrancisco, an act to amend the Public



                 Service Law;



                            3274, by Senator DeFrancisco, an



                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            6230A, by Senator Wright, an act to



                 amend the Public Service Law;



                            And 6714, by Senator Wright, an act



                 to amend the Public Authorities Law.



                            Senator Morahan, from the Committee



                 on Veterans and Military Affairs, reports:



                            Senate Print 500, by Senator



                 Morahan, an act to amend the Real Property Tax



                 Law;



                            1536, by Senator LaValle, an act to











                                                        2359







                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;



                            1764, by Senator Marchi, an act to



                 amend the Executive Law;



                            1849, by Senator Maltese, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            1933, by Senator Larkin, an act to



                 amend the Education Law;



                            3145, by Senator Morahan, an act to



                 amend the Executive Law;



                            4165A, by Senator Morahan, an act



                 to amend the Retirement and Social Security



                 Law;



                            And 4737A, by Senator Morahan, an



                 act to amend the Military Law.



                            Senator Saland, from the Committee



                 on Children and Families, reports:



                            Senate Print 421, by Senator



                 Skelos, an act to amend the Domestic Relations



                 Law;



                            1368, by Senator LaValle, an act to



                 amend the Domestic Relations Law;



                            3346A, by Senator Johnson, an act



                 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law;



                            4230A, by Senator Saland, an act to



                 amend the Domestic Relations Law;











                                                        2360







                            6979, by Senator Saland, an act to



                 amend the Domestic Relations Law;



                            7199, by Senator Balboni, an act to



                 amend the Social Services Law;



                            And 7203, by Senator Balboni, an



                 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law.



                            Senator Marcellino, from the



                 Committee on Environmental Conservation,



                 reports:



                            Senate Print 6210, by Senator



                 Marcellino, an act to amend the Environmental



                 Conservation Law;



                            6529, by Senator Larkin, an act to



                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;



                            6742, by Senator Marcellino, an act



                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;



                            6743, by Senator Marcellino, an act



                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;



                            6810, by Senator Johnson, an act to



                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;



                            7091, by Senator Marcellino, an act



                 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;



                            And Senate Print 7094, by Senator



                 Marcellino, an act to amend the Environmental



                 Conservation Law.











                                                        2361







                            All bills ordered direct to third



                 reading.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Without objection, all bills are ordered



                 direct to third reading.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,



                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the



                 following nominations.



                            As Commissioner of Human Rights,



                 Evonne W. Jennings Tolbert, Esquire, of



                 Roosevelt Island.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Stafford is recognized to move the



                 nomination.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,



                 it was indeed a pleasure today to have Evonne



                 Tolbert come before the Finance Committee.



                 She was prepared, she was articulate,



                 enthusiastic, and most sincere.



                            She has a background that all of us



                 would be proud of:  a leading attorney in the



                 litigation field in the private sector, as



                 well as other work with the legal area in the



                 private sector; was a member of the Dinkins











                                                        2362







                 administration in that great city, the



                 greatest city in the world with a population



                 of more than a million people.



                            Also, Commissioner Tolbert has



                 distinguished herself in the work that she's



                 been doing in the Division of Human Rights.



                            So it is my pleasure to move her



                 confirmation.  And as we often say, but again



                 I say it here today, we compliment the



                 Governor on an excellent appointment.  And



                 when the commissioner is confirmed, I'm sure



                 that this will be good for all of us, all of



                 the people of this great Empire State.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Stafford.



                            Senator Dollinger, on the



                 nomination.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            I rise today because although I can



                 agree with part of what Senator Stafford said,



                 I cannot agree with him in total.  He



                 described this nominee as passionate,



                 enthusiastic, and prepared.  And there's no











                                                        2363







                 doubt about Commissioner Tolbert's passion.



                 There's no doubt about her qualifications.



                 There's no doubt about her enthusiasm.



                            But quite frankly, Senator



                 Stafford, I can't tell whether she was



                 prepared, because in my attempt to ask her a



                 series of questions about the operation of



                 this agency, about her twenty-month tenure as



                 the acting or interim commissioner, my



                 colleagues on the Senate Finance Committee



                 decided it doesn't matter, we don't care,



                 we're not concerned about those aspects of



                 this nominee's credentials.



                            So they decided that they would



                 silence me and take away my ability to ask



                 questions.  Senator Kuhl raised a point of



                 order, stood up and said:  "Well, this isn't



                 appropriate.  We can't ask questions of a



                 nominee of the twenty months that she's been



                 the interim commissioner.  This doesn't affect



                 her credentials."



                            I would suggest to Senator Kuhl, as



                 I tried to in the Finance Committee, that that



                 logic would suggest let's not ever ask anybody



                 any questions about anything.  I know that's a











                                                        2364







                 way that some people choose to govern in this



                 house, but it's not the way I choose to



                 govern.  It's not the way I think democracy



                 should choose to govern.



                            I heard complaints in the Senate



                 Finance Committee that I was the one who was



                 holding up people from missing other meetings.



                 I think I reacted then by simply saying, "Boy,



                 democracy is just a time-consuming process.



                 It's a horribly time-consuming thing."  It



                 takes a little bit of time, it takes a little



                 bit of effort, it takes a little bit of



                 preparation.  You ask questions, you get



                 answers, you react.



                            That's the way I always thought



                 democracy worked.  It worked that way in 1776



                 in Philadelphia.  I'm not convinced it's ever



                 worked that way in the ten years that I've



                 been in Albany.



                            Let me tell you what I would have



                 asked this nominee.  I tried to ask her about



                 the presentation of the 2000 budget, how much



                 money she thought was necessary to make the



                 agency work.  Considering we're deliberating



                 on a 2002 budget, I thought that was an











                                                        2365







                 extremely pertinent question.



                            I attempted to ask her what she



                 thought was necessary to run the agency in



                 2001, before September 11th.  I didn't get an



                 answer to that question.  I attempted to ask



                 her what the Governor's feeling was about this



                 agency, since it has been historically



                 chronically underfunded by this governor.  I



                 didn't get an answer to that.



                            I wanted to find out, and I told



                 her that not only did I want to give her a



                 forum for her views, for her passion, for her



                 commitment on this issue, I wanted to give her



                 a megaphone, if not a microphone, so she could



                 blast the voice of justice across New York



                 State.



                            But she can't do it without



                 resources.  I wanted to ask her what resources



                 she needed to be able to do that.  My



                 colleagues wouldn't let me ask her that



                 question.



                            I wanted to ask her about how many



                 lawyers and administrative law judges had been



                 hired by the department, the division during



                 her tenure.  They wouldn't let me ask that











                                                        2366







                 question.



                            I wanted to ask her about the case



                 tracking system that she talked about briefly.



                 She mentioned it; I didn't.  I wanted to find



                 out whether a publication that I had read,



                 which suggested that it was simply partnered



                 with the Department of Taxation and Finance -



                 no, I wasn't allowed to ask that question.



                            I simply wanted to find out from



                 this nominee whether her experience had



                 suggested that we ought to put more money to



                 work in this agency so that it can do its job



                 correctly.  I wasn't allowed to ask that



                 question.



                            Mr. President, I detest voting



                 against nominees who appear to have the



                 credentials that this one does.  But from my



                 point of view, I have been advocating for this



                 agency for years that it be properly funded.



                 I've made amendments on the floor of this



                 chamber so that we would put our money where,



                 thank heaven, this commissioner's voice



                 already is, so that we would know how much



                 money is necessary to give this commissioner



                 the tools to do the job right and bring











                                                        2367







                 justice to everyone.



                            For some reason, my colleagues on



                 that side of the aisle are willing to silence



                 me in attempting to get answers to those



                 questions.  I am left with no alternative,



                 Mr. President, but to lodge my protest against



                 the way this division has been funded for the



                 last decade, both partly under Governor Cuomo



                 and, yes, under Governor Pataki -- but, more



                 importantly, how are we going to solve the



                 problem.



                            Having been denied the opportunity



                 to those answers, Mr. President, I am left



                 with no other choice but to vote no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Hevesi.



                            Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,



                 I'm sure Senator Hevesi won't mind.  I'll be



                 very brief, as I always am.



                            Senator, I think we're getting near



                 the end of the session, because you and I seem



                 to be having more communication.  That's often



                 the way.



                            I would just like to set the record











                                                        2368







                 straight.  I think the word "silenced" was a



                 poor use of the word.  That's my opinion.



                            And, secondly, I'm sure you'll



                 agree that you can't point to one side or the



                 other, as far as the aisle goes, as far as



                 certain decisions being made today in the



                 Finance Committee when certain judgments were



                 made that I don't disagree with.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you.



                            Senator Hevesi.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  On the nomination.



                            I'm going to support this nominee.



                 And I voted yes for this nominee in the Senate



                 Finance Committee meeting earlier this



                 morning.



                            But I must say Senator Dollinger is



                 right on the money with everything he



                 discussed.  The questions that he suggested



                 just now that he wanted to have answered I



                 want to have answered.



                            And let me just remind everybody



                 what this is really about.  This is about the











                                                        2369







                 9,000 people out there right now who, because



                 of the backlog in the agency, have to wait



                 upwards of five years to get a disposition as



                 to whether or not they can get some kind of



                 redress, as they have alleged they have been



                 discriminated against.  That's what this is



                 about.



                            And so the purpose here today is



                 not to cause contention or be belligerent, the



                 purpose here today is to -- a couple of



                 things.  One is to uncover whether or not the



                 agency is adequately funded.  That's pretty



                 clear.  The agency has not been adequately



                 funded.  The agency was not adequately funded,



                 evidently, under the Cuomo administration or



                 the Pataki administration.  We're not



                 concerned with placing blame, but we want to



                 rectify the situation.



                            The other thing we want to do is



                 try and find out -- and I was going to ask



                 this question today -- exactly how much money



                 do we need to place into the budget to reduce



                 the backlog by hiring a certain number of



                 additional staff.  I mean, this is straight



                 mathematics.  We're all somewhat well versed











                                                        2370







                 in this.  If we have the numbers, we can come



                 up with the amount of money that we need to



                 reduce this backlog.



                            And I know that the backlog used to



                 be worse, and it's getting better.  But the



                 fact of the matter is, this is a problem that



                 can be solved by money.  So often we say:



                 "Well, you can't just throw money at the



                 problem."  This problem can be solved by



                 money.  If we know how much money we have to



                 put into the budget to hire the additional



                 staff, we can cut down the backlog.  And the



                 backlog is really unfortunate for people.



                            Now, a word about what happened in



                 the Finance Committee.  In the Finance



                 Committee this morning, though in the past -



                 and Senator Stafford pointed this out about a



                 hearing that I had a number of questions on



                 years ago where we went for well over an



                 hour -- but this morning, for some reason, it



                 was determined that somehow it was



                 inappropriate to ask an individual who has



                 been serving as the acting commissioner of an



                 agency for several years about her budget



                 request to the Governor.











                                                        2371







                            Remember that the underlying



                 premise here is that the Governor has not



                 adequately funded the agency.



                            And so I believe what Senator



                 Dollinger was getting at, and what I'm getting



                 at, is we want to know that this nominee has



                 been and will continue to be very aggressive



                 with the Governor in lobbying, for her own



                 agency, for the resources needed to accomplish



                 the mission that her entire life's work



                 indicates she is passionate about.



                            I mean, nobody questioned the



                 character of this nominee.  Nobody questioned



                 her background.  Everything seemed exquisite



                 and exemplary.  In fact, it seems to me that



                 she's been disenfranchised by being such a



                 wonderful advocate and being in such a



                 position to effect positive change and not



                 having the resources in order to do what she



                 needs to do.  It must be very frustrating for



                 her.



                            And, one word in her defense, it



                 must also be uncomfortable, as somebody who



                 serves at the pleasure of the Governor, to



                 come before a committee and essentially say "I











                                                        2372







                 need more money, it's obvious to everyone, but



                 the Governor hasn't given it to me."  Very



                 difficult for a nominee to say that.



                            But we weren't even able to place



                 the questions, because for some reason members



                 of the committee -- and Senator Stafford is



                 right, it wasn't just on one side of the



                 aisle, it was on both sides of the aisle.  And



                 that's very unfortunate.  But because of that,



                 we didn't have questions answered that were



                 relevant questions.  That's unfortunate.



                            I'm going to give this nominee the



                 benefit of the doubt because of her background



                 and because she speaks so passionately on



                 these issues that if she had the resources she



                 could adequately do what the agency needs to



                 do.  And I will give a leap of faith here that



                 she will privately, as adamantly as she can,



                 lobby the Governor for much more money for



                 this agency.



                            And I don't want to hear that, you



                 know, we're in bad fiscal times now and that's



                 the reason why the agency is underfunded.



                 Because only a few short fiscal years ago, we



                 were flush with cash, with multi-billion











                                                        2373







                 dollar budget surpluses, and this small



                 agency, which only needs a fairly marginal



                 increase in order to cut this backlog



                 significantly, didn't get it.



                            So I think the Governor's



                 commitment to funding the Human Rights



                 Commission is clear.  And I think that the



                 nominee's passion about this is also clear.



                 She needs the resources to do it.



                            I'm going to support this nominee,



                 but I'd like the nominee privately, if she



                 can't do it publicly, privately to please,



                 please lobby the Governor as hard as possible



                 and to request that this Legislature, the



                 Assembly and the Senate -- because we're the



                 ones who can make restorations to the



                 Executive Budget, that we put the money



                 back -- not back, that we put the money in for



                 increases that can reduce this backlog.



                            Because if I've been discriminated



                 against, I don't want to have wait up to five



                 years, five years for some redress.  That's



                 wrong.  Think about all these people.  This is



                 not about us in the Legislature.  This is not



                 really about the functioning of the Finance











                                                        2374







                 Committee.



                            This is about the people who have



                 been disenfranchised, where we have set up an



                 appropriate forum and an appropriate structure



                 and that structure is not working properly -



                 not because of bad leadership, apparently, but



                 because the money is not there to do the job



                 that the agency is supposed to do.



                            And as a result, somebody may get



                 the signal that it's okay to discriminate



                 against people because it will take years and



                 years to get through the process.  And we



                 don't want to send that message.



                            And to everybody sitting there



                 who's a victim of discrimination, and



                 everybody here, including the nominee -- who



                 are articulated so beautifully her background



                 growing up in a segregated community -- how



                 important it is to continue the advances that



                 she has made, that we all strive for, in this



                 particular area.  It's absolutely essential.



                            This is not about personalities.



                 This is not about governance.  This is about



                 funding an agency that does a job that must be



                 done.  It's not being funded now, so the job











                                                        2375







                 is not being done and people are being hurt as



                 a result.



                            I support this nominee, but I hope



                 she hears me and I hope the Governor hears me



                 too.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Mendez.



                            SENATOR MENDEZ:    Mr. President, I



                 stand here today to support the nomination of



                 Mrs. Jennings Tolbert.  Everything has been



                 said about her excellent background



                 professionally, as the lawyer that she is, as



                 well as within the corporate structure of the



                 United States.



                            I want to clarify a couple of



                 things.  Of course there is a present backlog,



                 but that backlog that exists at the moment has



                 been reduced from over 17,000 cases -- over



                 17,000 cases -- in 1995, when the Governor



                 took office, so that that backlog has been



                 reduced by 50 percent.



                            On top of that, I really want to



                 mention that since 1995 the Governor's budget



                 has increased -- to the agency has increased











                                                        2376







                 by 45 percent and staff by 14 percent.  Yes,



                 that agency needs more monies, but I also know



                 that with the kinds of monies that they have



                 received with Mrs. Tolbert as an acting



                 commissioner, she has done wonderful things



                 with the agency to the point that the



                 Comptroller, Comptroller McCall, made an audit



                 a couple of years ago, and of the six



                 recommendations that he made to improve the



                 agency's performance, he found that five of



                 those recommendations were already implemented



                 in the agency and the sixth one was in the



                 process of being implemented.



                            So I want to mention as well that



                 it was during Governor Pataki's administration



                 that a suit that was placed in the Court of



                 Appeals by the NOW organization.  That suit



                 was won during the Pataki administration in



                 favor of the state.



                            But nevertheless, I think that we



                 all should be very happy that a wonderful and



                 highly qualified woman is going to be the



                 commissioner today, hopefully, and that



                 whatever happened before with -- we can all



                 work together to improve the agency and give











                                                        2377







                 our full support to the new commissioner and



                 to the agency.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Mendez.



                            Senator Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank



                 you, Mr. President.



                            I want to state right here for the



                 record, because I was asked by press this



                 morning, and I've heard a number of different



                 nominations where people, my colleagues



                 acknowledge their relationship with a person



                 who is being nominated.  And I will just say



                 here and now, for the record, that this is a



                 very long-time friend of mine.  So I want to



                 set that aside as an issue.



                            The nominee for commissioner,



                 Commissioner Tolbert, has talked this morning



                 about her own experience.  And the particular



                 experience that she's had as a child growing



                 up in the South, as a woman, as an



                 African-American woman and all, I think have



                 given her personally a very unique



                 qualification for this particular job.











                                                        2378







                            In addition, she talked about her



                 commitment that this is not just a job but



                 this is a mission for her, it's a commitment.



                 And it's based on her own experience with



                 discrimination on many levels, and for obvious



                 reasons.



                            She also is -- by everyone's



                 acknowledgment, she is extremely qualified and



                 has proven in the many jobs that she's had,



                 including private sector and government, that



                 she is competent.  So those issues are not in



                 question.



                            She also spoke about the



                 accomplishments that she has made, even though



                 she was not -- there was no assurance that she



                 would even finally be appointed by the



                 Governor.  But in her acting position, she has



                 already worked to reduce the backlog by



                 39 percent, according to her own report.



                            She has instituted new systems,



                 computerized the case process, and has gone



                 across the state looking to address issues



                 related to the discrimination of people in



                 different areas.  She's worked with



                 businesses, with the private sector and the











                                                        2379







                 public sector, as well as with the people that



                 she intends to serve.



                            So I don't think there is any



                 question about the competence, the commitment



                 of this nominee.



                            I'm very -- I feel personally very



                 strange about this, because I was the one that



                 essentially, if you would say, called for



                 the -- to move the nomination and cut off the



                 debate.  So my colleague, when he talks about



                 people interrupting the democratic process, I



                 must say I can't blame the Republicans



                 today -- although I would like to, but I can't



                 fully blame them today.  We take full



                 responsibility on our side for his grievance.



                            I will say, however, that I find it



                 very interesting that I do not recall any



                 nominee of the Governor's that will sit in a



                 committee meeting and denounce the Governor's



                 budget proposal.  No matter what they may



                 think, they will not, for obvious reasons, do



                 that.



                            We do, however, very often, when we



                 identify that there is a need for additional



                 funding for any agency -- and we do that every











                                                        2380







                 budget season -- we seek to add funding on the



                 legislative side.  And so I think that, to me,



                 is the process that is appropriate for us.



                            And the questions that we raised, I



                 believe, in terms of the issue of whether or



                 not the agency is funded adequately should be



                 addressed directly to the Governor, mano a



                 mano, and we should not scapegoat this nominee



                 because we do have a problem with the way in



                 which the Division of Human Rights has



                 functioned for years since I've been elected.



                            And so I agree with my colleague



                 Dollinger that -- Senator Dollinger that we



                 need to look at it, we should have a hearing.



                 But I certainly disagree with the fact that we



                 should scapegoat a woman who has expressed



                 full and complete commitment to doing whatever



                 she can and will continue to work with us.



                            But we have a problem with funding,



                 and let's deal with that with the Governor as



                 we always do.



                            Mr. President, I am happy to be



                 able to speak on behalf of the nominee and



                 certainly will be voting for her.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank











                                                        2381







                 you, Senator Montgomery.



                            Senator Smith.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Let me



                 just interrupt you, Senator Smith.



                            There's a 15-minute rule on



                 nominations on each side of the aisle.  That



                 side of the aisle has extended itself.  We



                 have extended it to almost 20 minutes.



                            But rather than be accused of



                 shutting off debate or closing down or gagging



                 people, we will allow you to speak.  But,



                 frankly, you will be last, Senator, to be



                 recognized on that side.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I will be brief.



                            I do not want the credentials of



                 this fine nominee to be clouded by our desire



                 to ensure that an agency receive all of the



                 necessary funding that it should have.



                            I was greatly impressed by the



                 nominee's recollections of her childhood in



                 Virginia.  Having been born in Amherst County,



                 Virginia, and having walked to the same kind



                 of one-room schoolhouse, and having met those











                                                        2382







                 same factors of discrimination, I can relate



                 very well to what she was saying.



                            And I'm proud of her for being able



                 to move forward and to become an attorney, and



                 to become not only an attorney but one of



                 renown who everyone has felt has done an



                 excellent job in everything that she has



                 touched.



                            She has a passion and a knowledge



                 that we need in this state.  And I look



                 forward to seeing her move this agency out of



                 the dark ages and to bring forth all of those



                 new ideas so that all of the people who have



                 made claims can be satisfied and the people of



                 New York State can have a worthwhile



                 commissioner.



                            Thank you.  I will be voting in the



                 positive.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 question is on the confirmation of Evonne E.



                 Jennings Tolbert, Esquire, as Commissioner of



                 Human Rights.  All in favor of the



                 confirmation signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:











                                                        2383







                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 nominee is hereby confirmed.



                            Congratulations, Commissioner.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Commissioner is accompanied today by her



                 husband, Dr. Jerome Tolbert; her brother,



                 Spencer Jennings; her sister, Marion Boston;



                 and other friends and relatives.  Welcome.



                            The Secretary will continue to



                 read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As Inspector



                 General of the Office of the Metropolitan



                 Transportation Authority, Matthew D.



                 Sansverie, Esquire, of Malverne.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Again, Mr.



                 President, I said we had a very fine day today



                 with nominees.



                            Matthew Sansverie came before us,



                 he has an excellent -- has had excellent



                 experience; indeed, has been in the Nassau











                                                        2384







                 County District Attorney's office.  He was in



                 the Department of Law, in charge of the



                 Criminal Prosecutions Bureau, also the



                 Charities Bureau, very, very important in the



                 Attorney General's office; and he also has



                 been with the Battery Park Authority, internal



                 control officer and associate counsel.



                            And also, Mr. President, I would



                 emphasize that with the experience of Matthew



                 Sansverie, we are going to have an inspector



                 general for the MTA, when he is confirmed, a



                 person who will do the job with dedication,



                 with a tremendous amount of sensitivity, but



                 one who realizes how important the mission is.



                 And again, the state will be better off



                 because of a fine public servant.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 question is on the confirmation of Matthew



                 Sansverie as MTA Inspector General.  All in



                 favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:











                                                        2385







                 Matthew Sansverie is now confirmed as



                 inspector general of the MTA.



                            Congratulations.  He's here today



                 with his wife, Kristie.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, William R. Crowe,



                 of Kenmore.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,



                 it's a pleasure to yield to Senator Rath.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Rath.



                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Senator



                 Stafford.



                            Mr. President, I am deeply honored



                 to rise to nominate one of my constituents,



                 Bill Crowe, who is in the gallery today, to



                 the Parole Board, the State Board of Parole.



                            With Mr. Crowe today are his wife,



                 Michela Downey Crowe, and daughters Bridget



                 and Molly, who we are delighted to have here











                                                        2386







                 with us today.



                            Mr. Crowe is someone I've known for



                 a long time through my district.  He's a



                 graduate of our great Syracuse University



                 here, and of course the University of Buffalo



                 Law School, which always gives us a great deal



                 of pride in Western New York.



                            But I think, as we're looking at



                 the Parole Board, we're certainly looking at a



                 board where we have to have someone who has a



                 lot of experience, not only in the law, as



                 Mr. Crowe does through his extensive private



                 practice -- and well-respected practice, I



                 might add, through the years -- but he has a



                 number of other items that I'd like to



                 mention.



                            Mr. Crowe was an assistant attorney



                 general, and he served as an acting village



                 judge in the village of Kenmore, an assistant



                 Erie County district attorney, associate



                 counsel presently to the Erie County Water



                 Authority, and many years as a trustee of the



                 village of Kenmore.



                            And I would submit to you that the



                 Governor, in his wisdom, chose a person for











                                                        2387







                 this job who has a broad reference of



                 experience and will serve very well and with



                 distinction in this.



                            It gives me a great deal of



                 pleasure to place his name in nomination.



                 Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Rath.



                            The question is on the confirmation



                 of William R. Crowe as a member of the



                 New York State Board of Parole.  All in favor



                 say aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Mr.



                 William R. Crowe is hereby confirmed as a



                 member of the New York State Board of Parole.



                            Congratulations, Mr. Crowe.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Mr.



                 Crowe is here today with his wife, Michela,



                 his daughter Bridget and his daughter Molly.



                 Congratulations to all.











                                                        2388







                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, Walter William



                 Smith, Jr., of Clarence Center.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,



                 I understand that this fine nominee did live



                 in the Senator on my right, Senator Maziarz's,



                 district, but he has moved to Clarence Center.



                 And I believe that's in Senator Rath's



                 district.  So I'll let them decide -- well, I



                 guess it's been decided.



                            (Laughter.)



                            SENATOR RATH:    I'm up.  You can



                 follow me, George.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath.



                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  It is with great honor that I rise



                 to place in nomination the name of Walter



                 William -- better known as Bill -- Smith to a



                 reappointment to the Parole Board for the



                 State of New York.  He has been a commissioner











                                                        2389







                 since 1996, and the Governor, in his wisdom,



                 has sent the reappointment over to us.



                            I might point out to you, as I said



                 for my previous nominee -- and of course it



                 looks like law and order is a big thing on the



                 Niagara frontier.  I guess it is, Senator



                 Maziarz -- we've got people who are finding



                 themselves distinguished and placed in



                 positions of distinction by the Governor



                 because they themselves are distinguished and



                 will serve the State of New York very well in



                 this role.



                            Bill Smith has also, besides being



                 a reappointment, served on the Crime Victims



                 Board of the State of New York and was in



                 charge of the Buffalo Office of the CVB,



                 including the investigators serving ten



                 western New York counties.  He also served as



                 a special investigator in the Erie County



                 Department of Social Services and graduated



                 from the State University of New York.



                            And again, we're always glad to be



                 able to note SUNY students and SUNY graduates



                 whenever they are in the chamber, because



                 we're particularly proud also of SUNY.











                                                        2390







                            So it gives me a great deal of



                 pleasure to present the name of Bill Smith as



                 a reappointment to the Board of Parole.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Rath.



                            Senator Maziarz.



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very



                 much, Mr. President.  Thank Senator Stafford,



                 the chair of the Finance Committee.



                            I want to rise to support the



                 nomination of Bill Smith.  I've known Bill for



                 a number of years.  The only bad thing I could



                 ever say about Bill Smith was that he used



                 extremely poor judgment when he moved out of



                 my Senate district.



                            But he has been, for a number of



                 years, a member of the Crime Victims



                 Compensation Board.  He understands the effect



                 of crime on -- particularly on victims.  And



                 he's done a great job since 1996 as a member



                 of the Board of Parole, and I know that he



                 will continue.  And Governor Pataki has made



                 an excellent choice.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.











                                                        2391







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Maziarz.



                            The question is on the confirmation



                 of Walter William Smith as a member of the



                 New York State Board of Parole.  All in favor



                 signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Walter



                 William Smith is hereby confirmed as a member



                 of the New York State Board of Parole.



                            Congratulations, Mr. Smith.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As sheriff of



                 Cayuga County, James C. Moochler, of Owasco.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Nozzolio.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  On the nomination.



                            Mr. President and my colleagues, a



                 vacancy in the Cayuga County sheriff's











                                                        2392







                 position was not something anyone planned for,



                 but Governor Pataki's nominee to fill that



                 vacancy could not have been better trained for



                 this position.



                            Jim Moochler combines a lifetime of



                 law enforcement experience with a keen



                 knowledge and interest in his home county of



                 Cayuga.  The Governor's decision, Governor



                 Pataki's decision to nominate Jim Moochler is



                 one of credential, is one of experience, and



                 is one in the best interests of Cayuga County.



                            Jim Moochler has served in many



                 capacities, preparing him for this position.



                 He himself is a career law enforcement



                 professional, serving, after the Marine Corps,



                 over 30 years as a member of New York's



                 finest, the New York State Police, rising



                 through the ranks and eventually becoming a



                 major and troop commander for Troop B in



                 New York State.



                            After that great record of service,



                 one could expect an individual, after 30 years



                 in a very stressful and yet important



                 position, deciding to sit on the back porch



                 and rock away for retirement.  But that's the











                                                        2393







                 last thing on Jim Moochler's mind.  That he



                 came home to the place where he grew up and



                 was educated to serve in a variety of



                 capacities that have been earmarked by just



                 simply great community service -- service to



                 his community, service to his county, service



                 to the city of Auburn.



                            When there was a crisis in the city



                 of Auburn needing a new police chief to serve



                 on an interim basis, the call came out for Jim



                 Moochler, and Jim Moochler was there and



                 served with great distinction.



                            Similarly, when there was an issue



                 of management within the city, because of



                 retirements and passing on, that a city



                 manager was needed, again, Jim Moochler was



                 called upon and served with distinction as



                 city manager for an interim basis to help in



                 the management of a large city, the largest



                 city in the central Finger Lakes.



                            Jim has also been elected as a



                 county legislator, but most recently as a



                 judge, serving as town justice for the town of



                 Owasco in Cayuga County.



                            Jim has presented a variety of











                                                        2394







                 experiences, a variety of qualifications that



                 Governor Pataki recognized.  And as usual in



                 Governor Pataki's criminal justice



                 appointments he really has served and found



                 outstanding individuals, and Jim Moochler is



                 in that category.



                            I'd also like to say that he's here



                 today, with his wife, Aggie, who later this



                 year they will be celebrating -- excuse me,



                 last year, in September, they celebrated their



                 50th wedding anniversary, and now they're on



                 their 51st year.  So I want to congratulate



                 the Moochlers for that outstanding



                 accomplishment.  It shows Jim's commitment to



                 not just community but family.



                            And that I, along with Assemblyman



                 Gary Finch, who represent Cayuga County -- and



                 Assemblyman Finch is here today to support



                 Governor Pataki's nomination -- Mr. President



                 and my colleagues, it's an outstanding



                 individual who I am very honored to support



                 for this nomination.  I move that Governor



                 Pataki's nomination be accepted by the Senate.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank











                                                        2395







                 you.



                            Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,



                 I'm standing up more than usual.  But when



                 anyone has been commander of Troop B, I have



                 to acknowledge them.  I just can't believe



                 that anybody can be troop commander up in our



                 area and move to Auburn, or Cayuga County.



                            But on a serious note, I would just



                 point out that Major Moochler was responsible,



                 after Major Ambler left, for planning and



                 commanding the State Police during the 1980



                 Olympics.  And just a tremendous, tremendous



                 job was done, and everyone was most impressed.



                            And I'm sure when he retires, he'll



                 move back to Raybrook.  You know, that's



                 Troop B.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Stafford.



                            The question is on the confirmation



                 of James C. Moochler as Cayuga County Sheriff.



                 All in favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.











                                                        2396







                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    James



                 C. Moochler is hereby confirmed as Cayuga



                 County Sheriff.



                            Congratulations, Mr. Moochler.  He



                 is here today with us with his wife, Agnes.



                 Congratulations.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As members of the



                 Empire State Plaza Art Commission, Kate Johns,



                 of Old Chatham, and Dolores Sarno, of Saratoga



                 Springs.



                            As members of the Advisory Council



                 on Agriculture, Daniel W. Sievert, of Burt,



                 and Suzanne G. West, of Varyburg.



                            As members of the New York State



                 Office of Science, Technology and Academic



                 Research Advisory Council, Erland E.



                 Kailbourne, of Williamsville, and Brian Ruder,



                 of Ausable Forks.



                            As a member of the Citizens Policy



                 and Complaint Review Council, Brian W. Cotter,



                 of Rensselaer.











                                                        2397







                            And as a member of the Board of



                 Visitors of the Agricultural and Industrial



                 School at Industry, Patricia A. Tantillo, of



                 West Henrietta.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Move the



                 nominations.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    On the



                 nominations, all in favor say aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 nominations are carried.  The nominees are



                 confirmed.  Thank you.



                            Motions and resolutions.



                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            On behalf of Senator Seward, I wish



                 to call up Senate Print Number 5584A, recalled



                 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The











                                                        2398







                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 18, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5584A, an



                 act to amend the Insurance Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, I now move to reconsider the vote



                 by which the bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will call the roll on



                 reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, I now offer the following



                 amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, are there any substitutions at the



                 desk?











                                                        2399







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,



                 there are, Senator.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Can we have



                 that done, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 24,



                 Senator Balboni moves to discharge, from the



                 Committee on Water Resources, Assembly Bill



                 Number 10155A and substitute it for the



                 identical Senate Bill Number 6594A, Third



                 Reading Calendar 467.



                            On page 26, Senator Marcellino



                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on



                 Environmental Conservation, Assembly Bill



                 Number 8683C and substitute it for the



                 identical Senate Bill Number 4786D, Third



                 Reading Calendar 511.



                            And on page 34, Senator Volker



                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on



                 Codes, Assembly Bill Number 9404A and



                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                 Number 6131, Third Reading Calendar 612.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 substitutions are ordered.











                                                        2400







                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, may we please adopt the Resolution



                 Calendar, with the exception of Resolution



                 5043.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 question is on the adoption of the Resolution



                 Calendar.  All in favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Resolution Calendar is adopted.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, there is a resolution at the desk



                 by Senator Breslin, Number 5043.  May we



                 please have it read in its entirety and move



                 for its immediate adoption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    In the



                 interests of time, we're going to read the



                 title only and then recognize Senator Breslin.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator











                                                        2401







                 Breslin, Legislative Resolution Number 5043,



                 congratulating the Voorheesville High School



                 Girls Basketball Team and Coach Jon McClement



                 upon the occasion of capturing the New York



                 State Public High School Athletic Association



                 Class C State Championship.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Breslin.



                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            I rise to honor Voorheesville High



                 School, the Blackbirds, who have established a



                 tradition of excellence not only in academics



                 but in basketball as well.  And they became



                 Class C state champions this year.  And they



                 became Class C state champions with a team



                 that consisted of mostly underclass people.



                            And the entire team, their



                 coaches -- Jon McClement and the assistant



                 coaches -- and parents were here earlier



                 today.  But because they have their academics



                 and other activities, most of them had to



                 return to school.



                            But we're honored today to have two



                 of them who remained.  One, Andrea Burch, who











                                                        2402







                 was an All-State basketball player, was the



                 most valuable player in the Federation



                 tournament, and most importantly, because of



                 her athletics and her academics, has received



                 a full scholarship to Pace University to play



                 basketball.



                            And with her is Catherine



                 Nicholson.  Catherine was the -- in the



                 Federation, got the sportsmanship award.  And



                 again more importantly, Catherine will be back



                 next year to lead Voorheesville once again not



                 only to the State Class C Championship but the



                 Federation as well.



                            And I'd like to have each of the



                 young ladies stand and be recognized as part



                 of that victorious team.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    We



                 welcome you to the chamber, and



                 congratulations.



                            On the resolution, all in favor



                 signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)











                                                        2403







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 resolution is adopted.



                            Congratulations.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  At this time can we have the



                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 318, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5042A, an



                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in



                 relation to providing.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 338, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 399, an



                 act to amend the Family Court Act and the



                 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to the age



                 of a child witness.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read











                                                        2404







                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I apologize for interrupting



                 the reading.



                            But can we now call an immediate



                 meeting of the Civil Service and Pensions



                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There



                 will be an immediate meeting of the Civil



                 Service and Pensions Committee in the Majority



                 Conference Room.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 369, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1452, an



                 act to amend the General Business Law, in



                 relation to the regulation of unsolicited











                                                        2405







                 commercial electronic mail.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 511, substituted earlier today by the Assembly



                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number



                 8683C, an act to amend the Environmental



                 Conservation Law, in relation to small lead



                 fishing sinkers.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect two years after it shall



                 have become law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.











                                                        2406







                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just briefly



                 to explain my vote, Mr. President.



                            I commend Senator Marcellino for



                 this bill.  I have two quick comments.  One



                 is, Senator Marcellino, I'm one of those guys



                 who took those sinkers and closed them with my



                 teeth around my fishing line.  It may explain



                 my conduct as -



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I was just



                 about to say that.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I saw it



                 coming.



                            (Laughter.)



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    It explains



                 a lot, Senator.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    But the



                 second thing, Mr. President, while this bill



                 is going to help the fishing and the waterfowl



                 in this state, I hope it calls our attention



                 not just to the sinkers that weigh less than



                 an ounce, but quite frankly the tons and tons



                 and tons of lead paint that is on the walls of











                                                        2407







                 residences in our city.



                            With all due respect, while we



                 should have a protection program for lead for



                 waterfowl and fish, frankly, the billion



                 dollars that we need to invest in our rural,



                 predominantly rural areas to solve the problem



                 of lead-paint poisoning of our children,



                 remains an outrage.



                            My hope is that this bill, the



                 recognition in this bill of the danger in lead



                 will not be forgotten, perhaps even at budget



                 time, when this conference or at least this



                 senator brings forward an amendment that says



                 it's time for us to commit the financial



                 resources to rid New York State of the problem



                 of lead-paint poisoning in the homes of our



                 children.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.  I'll



                 vote aye.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Dollinger.



                            Senator Oppenheimer.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I certainly



                 second what Senator Dollinger says.



                            And I also would like us to look











                                                        2408







                 more closely at not just those lead fishing



                 sinkers that are weighing one-half ounce or



                 less, but, as the environmental movement has



                 suggested, that we see what we can do to get



                 rid of all the lead sinkers.  There are



                 certainly alternatives that are available, and



                 we ought to keep all the lead out of our



                 water.



                            I vote yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Oppenheimer.



                            Announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Seward recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 546, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6577 -



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Lay it aside



                 for the day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is laid aside for the day.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 555, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1879, an



                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in











                                                        2409







                 relation to creating.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There



                 is a home-rule message at the desk.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 566, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 4517B, an



                 act authorizing the conveyance of certain



                 state lands.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The











                                                        2410







                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 580, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6578, an



                 act in relation to creating the Plattekill



                 Library District.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 589, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1636, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to prohibiting.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.











                                                        2411







                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the



                 negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 590, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 2723, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to authorizing.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay the bill



                 aside, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 591, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3796A,



                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,



                 in relation to proof of effectiveness.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                        2412







                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Sampson recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 593, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4597, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to period of validity.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 600, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 135, an



                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,



                 in relation to conducting depositions.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The











                                                        2413







                 bill is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 604, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 851, an



                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to



                 increasing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 November.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 620, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6091,



                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in



                 relation to authorizing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call











                                                        2414







                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Sampson recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 623, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1963B, an



                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control



                 Law, in relation to authorizing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect in 90 days.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 630, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6413, an



                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control



                 Law, in relation to the sale of soju at



                 retail.











                                                        2415







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            Senator Marcellino, that completes



                 the reading of the noncontroversial calendar.



                            Senator Smith.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I request unanimous consent to



                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number



                 600, Bill Number S135.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    That's



                 been laid aside, Senator.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Okay.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Can we



                 proceed with the reading of the controversial



                 calendar.











                                                        2416







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 318, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5042A, an



                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in



                 relation to providing a tax exemption.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Saland, an explanation has been



                 requested.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            Mr. President, this is a bill which



                 has been requested by resolution of the



                 Dutchess County legislature.  And what it



                 would do would be to provide for a real



                 property tax exemption of 10 percent of



                 assessed value to volunteer firefighters or



                 volunteer ambulance personnel.



                            The tax entity that could permit



                 that exemption could be the county or any of



                 its cities, towns, or villages.  And in order



                 to qualify, you would have to have been a



                 member of the fire company or ambulance











                                                        2417







                 company for some five years.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator.



                            Senator Hevesi.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I thank the sponsor for the



                 explanation.



                            I believe there's an amendment at



                 the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There



                 is an amendment at the desk.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    I would request



                 that its reading be waived, and I'd like to be



                 heard on the amendment, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 reading is waived, and we recognize Senator



                 Hevesi on the amendment.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I thank the sponsor for his



                 explanation.



                            You know, if I had a nickel for



                 every one of these bills that we've passed



                 this session, I'd have a quarter.  This is the



                 fifth time we've done one of these bills.  And



                 I don't know, I'm beginning to think maybe











                                                        2418







                 it's me.  Maybe my powers of persuasion aren't



                 what I thought they would be.



                            And I'm a little bit confused,



                 because everybody agrees with the comments



                 that I've made, and some of the sponsors of



                 these bills have actually said that they



                 support Senator Morahan's bill.  And I now



                 sponsor the exact same bill.  Nobody has said



                 that this is a bad idea, and just about



                 everybody has said, "Yeah, we should do it and



                 extend it to everybody else."  Yet these bills



                 keep coming, one after the next after the



                 next.



                            So again, Mr. President, the



                 amendment that we have before us would simply



                 extend this justified, logical, and necessary



                 incentive, slash, reward to heroic members who



                 volunteer for volunteer duty and volunteer



                 ambulance corps and fire departments



                 throughout the entire state of New York.



                            And, Mr. President, I'd like to



                 just suggest that maybe I have failed here.



                 Because it occurs to me, as I'm thinking why



                 do we keep seeing these bills, that maybe I



                 have failed to adequately persuade everybody











                                                        2419







                 that the Morahan bill or my bill is a better



                 option than this piecemeal approach.  And



                 maybe that's because every time I've spoken on



                 one of these bills, I've made some brief



                 comments, I've generally outlined what the



                 problem is.  And maybe that's my fault.  Maybe



                 I need to correct that.



                            So what I'll do here is I'll give



                 the benefit of the doubt to when everybody



                 says this is a good idea, we should do it, and



                 I'll give the benefit of the doubt and I'll



                 just have an expectation that we won't see any



                 more of these and we'll see either no more of



                 these but hopefully we will see my bill or



                 Senator Morahan's bill on the calendar soon,



                 and that will satisfy me.  That will be my



                 expectation.



                            If that doesn't happen, in order to



                 redress what I believe is my own failure, I



                 will take the full opportunity the next time



                 one of these bills comes on, and I believe we



                 have two hours on each bill to fully explore



                 with the members of this house -- and this may



                 not persuade anybody, but I'll have to give it



                 a shot -- to fully explore all of the issues,











                                                        2420







                 every single issue having to do with volunteer



                 firefighters and volunteer ambulance workers



                 in many, many counties throughout New York



                 State, particularly in New York City, and get



                 into a discussion of property taxes and why



                 it's necessary to offer this incentive.  And



                 we can even talk about elasticity of demand,



                 whether if you provide these incentives you



                 will have a requisite increase in the number



                 of people who are volunteering.  And we'll



                 have a full exploration of that.



                            I hope it doesn't come to that,



                 because it seems obvious to everybody that we



                 need to do this bill, but we don't see that.



                 So I'll give the benefit of the doubt.  And



                 next time my failure, Mr. President, will be



                 remedied through my efforts to further impress



                 upon everybody the need to pass your bill,



                 Mr. President, and the bill that I also



                 sponsor.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Hevesi.



                            Will those senators in agreement



                 with the amendment please raise your hands.











                                                        2421







                            Announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 agreement are Senators Breslin, Brown, Connor,



                 Dollinger, Gentile, Hevesi, L. Krueger,



                 Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson,



                 A. Smith, and Stachowski.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 amendment fails.



                            On the bill, read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Hevesi recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 590, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 2723, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to authorizing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read











                                                        2422







                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Montgomery recorded in the



                 negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 600, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 135, an



                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,



                 in relation to conducting depositions.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Volker, an explanation has been



                 requested.



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,



                 this is a bill that passed the Senate last



                 year by a vote of -- well, I've got it here



                 someplace -- I think it was 14 negative votes.



                 In the year before, it passed with two











                                                        2423







                 negative votes, I believe, 56 to 2.



                            But for the first time, and after



                 the years that this bill had been in -- it had



                 been in for three or four years -- the trial



                 lawyers raised an objection, claimed that it



                 might be used to -- against certain major



                 witnesses.



                            We did some checking on this since



                 then, by the way.  And the concept of this



                 bill, which was developed by the New York



                 State Bar Association, and apparently -



                 although I don't think the Office of Court



                 Administration was directly involved, but they



                 are working on legislation relating to



                 conducting interviews by electronic means.



                            The concept is that in certain



                 cases, and I'm sure they'd be very limited



                 cases, with either the stipulation of the



                 parties or upon a court order, depositions



                 could be taken by telephone or other remote



                 electronic means, to speed up court cases and



                 to provide -- to avoid the necessity for



                 additional expenses and things of that nature.



                            And I don't want to indicate, I



                 certainly don't want to indicate that maybe











                                                        2424







                 some of the trial lawyers were thinking that



                 it would drop down some court time.  But I've



                 got to tell you, this legislation seems to me



                 to be a commonsense approach to something



                 which I understand, in talking to some



                 attorneys who do this sort of litigation,



                 almost all of them believe that it could be



                 useful on an extremely limited basis.



                            I think the fear is, very honestly,



                 is that maybe some judge would make an order



                 against a major witness, which seems hardly



                 possible, since the judge would be in a



                 situation where he could probably overrule if



                 you could show that there was some major



                 witness who was being attempted to be deposed



                 by telephone or by remote means.



                            I must be honest with you, I really



                 think this is a good idea.  As I say, let me



                 point out to you that no one opposed this for



                 a number of years, and the bill was around.



                 And all of a sudden, last year, this issue



                 came up.  And I think it really came up



                 because both the Bar Association and the



                 Office of Court Administration are working on



                 even more extensive bills in relation to the











                                                        2425







                 use of electronic transfers and of using our



                 new technology in dealing with some court



                 cases.



                            But I think I understand the



                 objection.  I guess my response to those who



                 say, Well, you might have a major witness



                 deposed by telephone, even over the objection



                 of the attorneys, it seems to me that we're



                 saying that a judge couldn't see through the



                 necessity for having the vast majority of



                 people interviewed obviously on the witness



                 stand or be part of the case itself.



                            This is in rare cases where you



                 have people -- I would think mostly



                 depositions where people, you know, from



                 faraway places or whatever could be deposed



                 and save a lot of money for the court and,



                 frankly, for the attorneys themselves.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read



                 the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Dollinger.











                                                        2426







                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm going to



                 vote against this bill, as I did last year,



                 Mr. President.  I'm not quite sure how the



                 whole thing works, because I've read the bill



                 again today, but -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Excuse



                 me, Senator.  Are you explaining your vote?



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I was going



                 to.  I thought the roll had already been



                 called.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Okay,



                 we're not on the roll call yet.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    If we aren't,



                 then, can I just comment on the bill?  And



                 then I'll waive my explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Okay,



                 on the bill.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I'm concerned



                 about giving away the home court advantage



                 here in New York, quite frankly, Mr.



                 President.



                            I've been involved in depositions



                 with a witness in Argentina, of all places, in



                 the last three months.  And I have to admit we



                 eventually did it by telephone, but it was











                                                        2427







                 unbelievably cumbersome and difficult.



                            And the major reason, Senator



                 Volker, although I understand all the reasons



                 why this makes some sense, that one of the



                 great difficulties we had is that we had both



                 a language problem and, quite frankly, every



                 time I kept asking questions I kept asking the



                 notary public who was present in the remote



                 location:  "Is there anybody else in the room



                 coaching the witness as to what he's



                 replying?"  And I was told no.



                            But quite frankly, I still don't



                 believe it, because there would be pauses on



                 the transcript followed by shuffling of



                 documents, followed by testimony from the



                 witness.



                            I think that this will sort of



                 change the home court advantage and the rule



                 of when someone comes into New York, does



                 business here, they ought to be subject to



                 suit, they ought to appear for depositions,



                 they ought to appear for depositions live.



                            My guess is that routinely, as a



                 matter of course, whenever there's a witness



                 from an out-of-state defendant, there'll be an











                                                        2428







                 application of the court to allow telephonic



                 depositions for the convenience of witnesses.



                 I think that will, in the long run,



                 potentially increase the cost, increase the



                 involvement of the courts and maybe not



                 achieve the benefits that Senator Volker's



                 legislation is designed to achieve.



                            For that reason, and because I



                 believe that to do business here you should



                 come here and pay the costs of litigation and



                 appear here for depositions, I'm going to vote



                 against this bill, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Dollinger.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain your vote.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I'm



                 voting in the negative.











                                                        2429







                            And a couple of comments.  Those



                 who have actually practiced law and have done



                 depositions know that one of things you want



                 to do is to learn about the witness, to see



                 the witness talk, to see how they operate, to



                 see how they're likely to testify, to get an



                 valuation of whether you want to call this



                 witness or how you cross-examine the witness.



                 How you could get that information over a



                 telephone is totally beyond me.



                            If it's an appropriate case for a



                 telephonic deposition, the parties can



                 stipulate to that.  But to be forced into one



                 is wrong.



                            Now, if there's some insinuation



                 that the trial lawyers may not be in favor of



                 this because of additional fees if the



                 deposition goes on, I don't know.  But I don't



                 know of any plaintiff's attorney who happens



                 to be called trial lawyers -- defense



                 attorneys are not trial lawyers, they're just



                 on the side that's right, apparently -- no



                 plaintiff's attorneys that I know of ever



                 delay the case.  They want to get them going.



                 The defense attorneys love to delay, because











                                                        2430







                 the more time it goes, the more you wear out



                 the other side.



                            So whatever the rationale is for



                 this bill, we could do it by stipulation.  But



                 no litigant should be forced to do a



                 telephonic communication if they're not in



                 agreement.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Volker.



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    To explain my



                 vote.



                            I'm confused.  I must tell you, I



                 suspect we're talking right over each other



                 here.  This bill really -- all this bill says



                 is -- and, Senator DeFrancisco, you know



                 this -- if somebody really wants to delay a



                 case, one of the ways they could do it is



                 refuse to stipulate and force the attorney to



                 find some way to get a deposition from that



                 person.  Which if that person is from out of



                 state or, as Richard just said, is out of



                 country, is in a situation where they may not



                 ever be able to get that person to come in and



                 testify in the case.



                            All this bill does is try to say











                                                        2431







                 that you can go before a judge and the



                 judge -- this happens, by the way, if both



                 parties won't stipulate.  I mean, I guess I'm



                 a bit confused because it seems to me that



                 this sets a reasonable middle ground.



                            And I can't see attorneys -- and



                 the attorneys that I know of, very few of them



                 are probably going to stipulate to this stuff



                 with the other attorney unless they see the



                 same opportunity they see now, and that is to



                 force their opponent into a situation where



                 maybe they can't get any deposition at all.



                 At least you've got a judge now that can say



                 "No, you must bring the fellow in."



                            My personal opinion is I just -- I



                 agree with you, the both of you, about



                 personal depositions and about the witnesses



                 and all that.  I just don't think that this



                 bill is going to interfere with that.



                            I vote aye.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator Volker.



                            I'm going to ask the senators who



                 are voting in the negative to raise their



                 hands at this time.











                                                        2432







                            Senator Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, Mr.



                 President, to explain my vote.



                            I have tremendous respect for



                 Senator Volker and his sincerity in this.  But



                 I must concur, as a former defense lawyer,



                 with what Senator DeFrancisco has stated.



                            We have rules of jurisdiction.  We



                 have rules requiring counsel to be present,



                 counsel to be admitted in certain states, to



                 control in some respects where you bring



                 litigation for the convenience of the



                 witnesses, for the convenience of the parties.



                 I have traveled to many exotic places doing



                 disclosure and discovery, and it's not the



                 greatest thing, the greatest part of a



                 lawyer's job.



                            But it is absolutely clear to me



                 that getting witnesses to do a live deposition



                 as soon as possible very often is what brings



                 a settlement in a case.



                            And I think that actually this



                 could end up costing more, running up more



                 legal fees, dragging cases out more, and



                 preventing it.  Because in my own personal











                                                        2433







                 experience, there's nothing like getting the



                 other side's main witness in a deposition -



                 then you know what kind of a problem you've



                 got.



                            So I'm voting no, I'm urging people



                 to vote no.  I think that if the parties



                 stipulate, there's no reason to go beyond



                 that.  And the parties can stipulate at



                 present.  So I vote no and encourage a no



                 vote.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank



                 you, Senator.



                            The Secretary will announce the



                 results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar Number 600 are



                 Senators Andrews, Breslin, Brown, Connor,



                 DeFrancisco, Espada, Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi,



                 L. Krueger, Lachman, Montgomery, Onorato,



                 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Santiago,



                 Schneiderman, A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski,



                 Stavisky.  Also Senator Dollinger.



                            Ayes, 38.  Nays, 22.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The











                                                        2434







                 bill is passed.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  May we take up Senate Print



                 Number 7304, Calendar Number 727.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to



                 Calendar Number 727, Senator Stafford moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Finance,



                 Assembly Bill Number 11186 and substitute it



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7304,



                 Third Reading Calendar 727.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 substitution is ordered.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 727, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,



                 Assembly Print Number 11186, an act to amend



                 Chapter 405 of the Laws of 1999.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, is there a message of necessity at



                 the desk?











                                                        2435







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,



                 there is.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I move to



                 accept the message of necessity.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 motion is to accept the message of necessity.



                 All in favor say aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (Response of "Nay.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 message is accepted.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the



                 negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            Senator Marcellino.











                                                        2436







                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, at this time can we take up Senate



                 Print Number 7305, Calendar Number 728.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to



                 Calendar Number 728, Senator Stafford moves to



                 discharge, from the Committee on Finance,



                 Assembly Bill Number 11185 and substitute it



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7305,



                 Third Reading Calendar 728.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 substitution is ordered.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 728, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,



                 Assembly Print Number 11185, an act making



                 appropriations for the support of government.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, is there a message of necessity and



                 appropriation at the desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There



                 is a message of necessity and appropriation at











                                                        2437







                 the desk.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Move to



                 accept the messages of necessity and



                 appropriation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 motion is to accept the messages.  All in



                 favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 messages are accepted, Senator.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call



                 the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,



                 1 -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Senator Padavan, why do you rise?



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    When you get



                 through with the roll call on this bill, if











                                                        2438







                 you have -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Do you



                 want to speak on this bill, Senator?



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    No.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 Secretary will announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Dollinger recorded in the



                 negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            Senator Padavan.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    By unanimous



                 consent I'd like to be recorded in the



                 negative on Senate Bill 7304 and Calendar



                 Number 630, Senate Bill 6413.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Without objection, Senator Padavan will be



                 recorded in the negative on Senate Bill 7304



                 and Senate Bill 6413.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, may we return to the reports of



                 standing committees.  I understand there are



                 reports of committees at the desk.











                                                        2439







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Reports of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Leibell,



                 from the Committee on Civil Service and



                 Pensions, reports the following bills:



                            Senate Print 1783A, by Senator



                 Farley, an act to amend the Retirement and



                 Social Security Law;



                            2121, by Senator Kuhl, an act to



                 amend the Education Law;



                            3202A, by Senator Farley, an act to



                 allow;



                            4608A, by Senator Kuhl, an act



                 authorizing;



                            5431B, by Senator Morahan, an act



                 to amend the Retirement and Social Security



                 Law;



                            6103, by Senator Farley, an act to



                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;



                            6381, by Senator Farley, an act to



                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;



                            6527, by Senator Kuhl, an act to



                 authorize;



                            6849, by Senator Farley, an act to











                                                        2440







                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;



                            6926, by Senator Leibell, an act to



                 amend the Civil Service Law;



                            6952, by Senator Farley, an act in



                 relation;



                            7141, by Senator Leibell, an act to



                 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;



                            And Senate Print 7215, by Senator



                 Leibell, an act to amend the Administrative



                 Code of the City of New York.



                            All bills ordered direct to third



                 reading.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                 Without objection, all bills are moved to the



                 third reading.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.



                 President, is there any housekeeping at the



                 desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    No,



                 sir.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    There being



                 no further business, I move we adjourn until



                 Wednesday, April 24th, at 11:00 a.m. sharp.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    On











                                                        2441







                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until



                 Wednesday, April 24th, 11:00 a.m.



                            (Whereupon, at 4:40 p.m., the



                 Senate adjourned.)