Regular Session - April 30, 2002
2628
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
April 30, 2002
3:19 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
2629
P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
please come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of
silence, please.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Monday, April 29, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, April 28,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
2630
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following bill direct to third reading:
Senate Print 7325, by the Senate
Committee on Rules, an act making
appropriations for the support of government.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following nominations.
As a member of the Board of
Trustees of the State University of New York,
Steven L. Alfasi, Esquire, of the Bronx.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
President, excuse me.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
Senator. The sound was not on.
2631
You're now on.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
President, we had a delightful Finance
meeting, had very fine nominees. And for the
first nominee here this afternoon, I yield to
Senator Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you,
Senator Stafford, Madam President. I'm
pleased -
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: I'm pleased to
rise in support of Steven Alfasi as a member
of the board of the SUNY Board of Trustees.
Steven is a good friend of mine.
I've known him for many years. He's a
graduate of the United States Air Force
Academy. He's a graduate of St. Martin's
College, where he received his master's degree
in business administration, and then went on
to Brooklyn Law School to receive his juris
doctor's degree.
He served five years as an officer
in the United States Air Force, performing
many of the administrative duties and helping
to govern the Republic of South Korea, where
2632
he served for many years in an official
capacity there.
He has served as the county
commander of the Veteran of Foreign Wars in
Bronx County, is a member of the Puerto Rican
Bar Association, the Bronx County Bar
Association, and presently serves as the
deputy public administrator of Bronx County.
He has been active in his community
services, and he speaks both English and
Spanish fluently.
He brings the discipline of the
military, the organization of a business
major, and the compassion of a social worker
to our board of SUNY trustees. I highly
recommend him for this position.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Madam
President.
I rise to second the nomination and
to thank Senator Velella for making the
nomination possible, for proffering it in the
first instance, for all the good reasons that
he mentioned. But mostly because through
Senator Velella I've come to know the story of
2633
Mr. Alfasi, his family, his commitment to the
Bronx.
He's already a trustee in his role
as deputy public administrator of Bronx
County. He is a shining example and a real
mentor to so many in Bronx County, not only in
the legal profession but really a shining
example for all, and will serve the SUNY
system very well.
But mostly because he is a native
Bronxite, a native son of the Bronx -- I
should say of the Republic of the Bronx -- and
we're very proud of you.
Thank you so very much.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the confirmation of Steven L. Alfasi,
Esquire, as a member of the SUNY Board of
Trustees. All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
hereby confirmed.
Senator Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Is it too late
2634
to explain my vote?
THE PRESIDENT: No, you may
speak.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Very briefly.
Madam President, I have been
troubled by the nominations for the CUNY and
SUNY board. And I would hope, if the Governor
happens to be listening, that we try to
encourage people with an interest in public
higher education for the future.
Unfortunately, at the present time,
of the 14 appointees to the SUNY board, only
five come from SUNY or CUNY institutions. And
I would certainly hope that in the future,
appointees to both the CUNY and SUNY board
include people who understand the mission of
SUNY and CUNY.
This is a very important issue, as
far as I'm concerned, and I will be very
reluctant in the future to vote to confirm
anyone who does not understand the mission of
SUNY and CUNY or the financial problems facing
these institutions.
But I vote aye. Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is
2635
hereby confirmed.
Congratulations, on behalf of the
Senate. Certainly with your credentials you
are a welcome and a very important addition to
the SUNY Board of Trustees. Best wishes.
(Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Board of Trustees of the State University
of New York, Father John J. Cremins, of Forest
Hills.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Madam
President, the next fine nominee, although
Father Cremins is originally from the County
of Kings, I yield to the Senator from Queens.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Maltese.
SENATOR MALTESE: Thank you,
Senator Stafford. Thank you, Madam President.
I am pleased today to rise in
support of the confirmation of Father John
Cremins to the board of SUNY. Certainly as
the only sitting Majority member on the Higher
Education Committee, I take my
2636
responsibilities very seriously.
The 16-person SUNY board, which
oversees the 64 campuses and over 370,000
students, have to be represented on the SUNY
board by persons of integrity, moral
character, and ability. Father Cremins is one
such person.
Father Cremins has, in the course
of his very illustrious career, served as an
adjunct professor at Iona College, the
chaplain at South Beach Psychiatric Center in
Staten Island, an adjunct professor in
undergraduate psychology at Iona in
New Rochelle, director of research at the
Child Study Center in New York, associate
professor at St. John's University, and
associate pastor at St. Rose of Lima Church in
Brooklyn, psychology intern at Coney Island
Hospital in Brooklyn, New York, an associate
pastor at Our Lady of Angels Church in
Brooklyn, New York, and clinical psychology
intern at Cattaraugus Health Center.
He presently holds memberships on
the board of directors of the Child Study
Center of New York, advisory board member at
2637
the Mapleton Clinic, South Beach Hospital. He
serves as secretary of the retirement board
for the Diocese of Brooklyn.
He is a board member of the
American Association of University Professors,
the American Psychological Association of
Washington, D.C., and has served on the board
of directors and is a founding member of the
Bay Ridge Mental Health Council in Brooklyn,
New York. He is a proud recipient of the
Ellis Island Medal of Honor on May 15, 1995.
In short, I commend the Governor of
the state, George Pataki, for submitting this
knowledgeable, moral man. Certainly we in
New York deserve a diversity of talents to
serve on our SUNY board.
The student body of SUNY, just as
the student body of CUNY, is probably among
the most diversified in the world, certainly
in the United States. In order to adequately
serve not only the people of the state but the
students, the most important factor in this
equation -- the students, the future of not
only our university but the future of our
state and our country -- we need
2638
diversification, we need talent, and
certainly, above all, we need men of integrity
and character. Such a man is Father Cremins.
I'm very pleased to appeal for the
confirmation of Father Cremins at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Madam
President.
It's a real pleasure to rise today
and support the confirmation of Father John
Cremins to the board of the State University
of New York.
Representing so many students from
my district from Long Island who use the state
university system, we want to make sure that
they continue to get a quality and affordable
education. Certainly Father Cremins is the
type of board member we need to continue and
contribute to this mission. We are fortunate
to have him joining the board.
And I'd also like to acknowledge
the presence of Father Cremins' mother, Mary
Cremins, and his brother Dan Cremins in the
gallery, to witness this very special and
proud moment.
2639
I know that when Mrs. Cremins
ventured from Ireland years ago to this
country, the important role of what her son
would be doing was probably not even
anticipated. So the entire family should be
very proud of him.
So thank you, Father John, for
agreeing to serve your state. And I strongly
urge his confirmation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Very briefly,
I want to echo what my two colleagues have
said.
I think Father Cremins, with his
background in higher education, will make a
very positive contribution to the SUNY board,
and I look forward to working with the SUNY
trustees and the CUNY trustees in the days
ahead.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the
nomination?
The question, then, is on the
2640
confirmation of Father John Cremins as a
member of the State University of New York
Board of Trustees. All those in favor signify
by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
nominee is confirmed.
Father Cremins is with us today in
the gallery. He's accompanied by his mother,
Mary Cremins, his brothers, Dan and Jerry
Cremins, and by his sisters-in-law, Suzanne
Cremins and Peggy Cremins.
Father, congratulations and good
luck with your very important duties.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a member of
the Public Employment Relations Board, John T.
Mitchell, Esquire, of Delmar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford.
2641
SENATOR STAFFORD: Our final fine
appearance today was this fine nominee.
And it's a pleasure to yield to
Senator Velella.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President,
as chairman of the Labor Committee, it is my
pleasure to recommend to the body the name of
John Mitchell, of Delmar, who is a respected
member of the bar in the Capital District, has
served his country as a first lieutenant in
Germany.
He's married, has three children,
is an experienced member of the PERB board and
has handled many complex matters on that
board, serving as an arbitrator.
He will be an outstanding member of
the Public Employment Relations Board. I
submit his name for consideration.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Breslin.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr.
President. I rise to further the comments of
Senator Velella.
2642
John Terrence Mitchell -- Terry
Mitchell, as he's known in Albany -- is not
only a fine lawyer, a friend of many years,
but someone who is most ably qualified for
this position. And I commend the Governor for
making it.
I commend Terry for being involved
in public service. And I know he'll continue
to do as fine a job as he has in the past.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the confirmation of John
Mitchell as a member of the Public Employment
Relations Board. All those in favor signify
by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
nominee is confirmed.
Mr. Mitchell is with us today in
the gallery.
Mr. Mitchell, congratulations, and
we wish you well.
2643
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could just return to motions and
resolutions at this time.
There are a number of people here
that I believe Senator Libous would like to
introduce, and several resolutions.
So if we could adopt the Resolution
Calendar in its entirety, with the exceptions
of Resolutions 5168 and 5169.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motions
and resolutions.
The question is on adoption of the
Resolution Calendar, with the exception of
Resolutions 5168 and 5169. All those in favor
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Resolution Calendar, with exceptions, is
adopted.
2644
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could take up Resolution 5169, by
Senator Libous, have it read in its entirety,
and move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Resolution 5169.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Libous, Legislative Resolution Number 5169,
memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to
proclaim April 30, 2002, as Legislative
Disabilities Awareness Day in the State of
New York.
"WHEREAS, The New York State Senate
Select Committee on the Disabled is sponsoring
the 22nd Annual Legislative Disabilities
Awareness Day in Albany, New York; and
"WHEREAS, The Commissioner of the
Administration on Developmental Disabilities,
Patricia A. Morrissey, Ph.D., will be the
special guest at the 22nd Annual Legislative
Disabilities Awareness Day; and
"WHEREAS, In addition, a technology
fair will be held with exhibitors from across
the state displaying their programs; and
2645
"WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
Legislative Body that persons with
disabilities merit our recognition as they
realize the goals of inclusion and equality in
our communities and society at large; and
"WHEREAS, It is the intent of this
Legislative Body to recognize persons with
disabilities, accentuating, in turn, the
benefit to New York State of their
contributions to our economic, educational,
and social growth; and
"WHEREAS, Legislative Disabilities
Awareness Day so clearly labors for the
positive and salutary definition of the
communities of the State of New York; and
"WHEREAS, Legislative Disabilities
Awareness Day provides individuals with an
opportunity to acknowledge and understand the
legislative process; now, therefore, be it
"RESOLVED, That this Legislative
Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize
Governor George E. Pataki to proclaim April
30, 2002, as Legislative Disabilities
Awareness Day in the State of New York, fully
confident that such procedure mirrors our
2646
shared commitment to the efflorescence of
human dignity; and be it further
"RESOLVED, That copies of this
Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to the Honorable George E. Pataki, Governor of
the State of New York, and selected
representatives of persons with disabilities."
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
before you recognize Senator Libous, I would
just ask if the members within my voice's
range, if they could come into the chamber,
because this truly is a special day.
And if we could just have a little
peace and quiet in the chamber as Senator
Libous speaks and as the resolutions are read.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Thank
you, Senator Skelos.
Could I ask members and staff
members who find it necessary to have
conversations to take them outside, please.
Can we have some order in the chamber.
Senator Libous.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
2647
President. And thank you, Senator Skelos.
Mr. President, before I speak on
the resolution, I would certainly like to
offer it up and ask that all members be put on
the resolution as cosponsors, number one.
Number two, I would like to welcome
our interpreter, Laurie Kulka, who is with us
today.
Mr. President, we had probably the
best Legislative Disability Awareness Day in
the history of this Capitol today. Not only
were we able to have exhibitors join us and
have people from all over the state who help
people with disabilities, but we had a number
of achievers this year that were nominated by
various senators, and we gave out some 22
awards today.
I first of all would like to thank
my colleagues who participated. And I think
they found that it was quite incredible to
learn the accomplishments of people with
disabilities from within their district, and
that people with disabilities provide great
opportunity to this great State of New York
and to the communities that they live in.
2648
I just want to share with you on
the resolution a little background on some of
our recipients. And, Mr. President, some of
those recipients are with us today. And we're
very pleased to have them here.
For instance, we had people that
were founders and directors of agencies that
work to improve the lives of disabled children
throughout our state. We had today talented
musicians that have recorded and toured with
big names, nationally known performers. We
have those who are professors and teachers at
our universities who teach our next
generation.
And I have to tell you, Mr.
President, that in seeing the number of people
that came this morning to our 11 o'clock
ceremony, it makes me very proud of the
leadership of this Majority and Senator Bruno
and all of the people in this chamber for the
good things that we have done over the past
decade when it comes to helping people with
disabilities.
But our work is not done. We must
continue to let people know and to make people
2649
aware that people with disabilities need and
deserve the same opportunities of all of us -
whether those opportunities be in the
workplace, whether those opportunities be at
educational facilities, whether they be in
public places, wherever they travel. Their
lives are no different than ours, and their
opportunities should be no different than
ours.
Mr. President, I am very pleased
that this day was a great success. I look
forward to further successes in the coming
years. And also I look to my colleagues in
this chamber to continue to work with each and
every one of them on both sides of the aisle
as we continue to improve lives for people
with disabilities in New York State.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
2650
resolution is unanimously adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
would you please call up Resolution 5168, by
Senator Libous, have it read in its entirety,
and move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Resolution 5168.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Libous, Legislative Resolution Number 5168,
honoring Patricia A. Morrissey, Ph.D., upon
the occasion of her designation as guest of
honor at the 22nd Annual Legislative
Disabilities Awareness Day on April 30, 2002.
"WHEREAS, The 22nd Annual
Legislative Disabilities Awareness Day
provides individuals with an opportunity to
acknowledge and understand the needs and
abilities of people with disabilities
throughout New York State; and
"WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is
justly proud to honor Patricia Morrissey,
Ph.D., upon the occasion of her designation as
Guest of Honor at the 22nd Annual Legislative
Disabilities Awareness Day, April 30, 2002, in
2651
Albany, New York; and
"WHEREAS, Patricia Morrissey was
appointed Commissioner of the Administration
on Developmental Disabilities effective
August 27, 2001. Commissioner Morrissey
oversees four major discretionary grant
programs authorized by the Developmental
Disabilities Assistance and Bill of Rights Act
of 2000; and
"WHEREAS, Patricia Morrissey holds
a Ph.D. in special education from the
Pennsylvania State University. Before
becoming ADD Commissioner, she was a senior
associate with Booz Allen Hamilton, an
international technology and management
consulting firm with headquarters in McLean,
Virginia. She oversaw Booz Allen Hamilton's
efforts to help federal agencies make their
electronic and information technology
accessible to and usable by individuals with
disabilities; and
"WHEREAS, During her 26 years in
the Washington area, Patricia Morrissey has
worked for the Senate, the House of
Representatives, and President Ronald Reagan.
2652
In 1999, while with the Senate, she worked
with then Wisconsin Governor Thompson's office
on the development and passage of the Ticket
to Work and Work Incentives Improvement Act.
More recently, she was a contributor to
President George W. Bush's New Freedom
Initiative; and
"WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
Legislative Body to recognize and applaud the
achievements of its citizens who would elect
to challenge life with an uncommon valor and
determination, demonstrating by example and
purposeful action that commitment to personal
goals is the wellspring of self-fulfillment
and achievement; now, therefore, be it
"RESOLVED, That this Legislative
Body pause in its deliberations to honor
Patricia Morrissey upon the occasion of her
designation as Guest of Honor at the 22nd
Annual Legislative Disabilities Awareness Day,
April 30, 2002; and be it further
"RESOLVED, That a copy of this
Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to Patricia Morrissey, Ph.D."
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
2653
Libous.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr.
President. Mr. President and my colleagues,
over the past 11 years that I've served as
chairman of the Select Committee on the
Disabled we've welcomed many guests here in
Albany on Legislative Disability Awareness
Day.
And just like our 22 achievers
today, you know, each of them has been an
example of great things that individuals with
disabilities can do. And today I am pleased
to welcome Commissioner Morrissey, because she
is no exception.
She comes to us from the nation's
capital, from Washington, D.C., where she is
commissioner of the U.S. Administration on
Developmental Disabilities. But even before
she was appointed by President Bush last
August, she has had an illustrious 28-year
career in Washington. She's written
legislation for the United States Senate, the
United States House of Representatives; she's
worked in the Department of Education, for the
Reagan administration. She's helped major
2654
corporations comply with the Americans with
Disabilities Act. She's even taught college
and published books.
But most importantly, she's always
been at the forefront of all Americans with
disabilities and their policy. Her success is
an inspiration to all of us. And again, it
reminds us that attitude is truly the only
real disability.
I'm very pleased that Commissioner
Morrissey could join us today here on the
Senate floor. The commissioner has had a
pretty full day. She's met with a number of
state officials and met with a number of you
today.
I asked the commissioner earlier
what she felt was one of her biggest
accomplishments over her 28-year career, and
she shared with me that in helping to get the
Americans with Disabilities Act actually
passed and pushed through both houses and also
advising the president on that decision.
I think that's quite remarkable, if
you think about the importance of that act,
the number of years that people with
2655
disabilities and others have worked very hard,
legislators in both the U.S. Senate and House
of Representatives. And for our guest to play
a very instrumental part in making that happen
so that all Americans with disabilities could
have a fair opportunity for employment and
other opportunities, it gives me great
pleasure to welcome her to the chamber.
So, Commissioner, on behalf of
Senator Bruno and all of my colleagues here in
the chamber, I'd like to welcome you, I'd like
to congratulate you.
And I want to thank you for taking
time out of your schedule, coming here, and
being an inspiration not only to all the
recipients who won awards today but to all of
us in this chamber.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
2656
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is unanimously adopted.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
could we return to reports of standing
committees and pick up the business of the
Finance Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports
of standing committees.
The Secretary will continue to read
the report of the Finance Committee.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following nominations:
As a nonvoting member of the
Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Joseph
Rutigliano, of Holtsville.
As a member of the Port of Oswego
Authority, William F. Shannon, Jr., of Oswego.
As a member of the State Public
Transportation Safety Board, Deborah A. Green,
of New York City.
As a member of the Fire Fighting
and Code Enforcement Personnel Standards and
2657
Education Commission, Peter A. Caruso, of
Utica.
As a member of the State Harness
Racing Commission, Mark A. Edelman, of
Monticello.
As a member of the Medical Advisory
Committee, Steven E. Barnes, of Silver Creek.
As a member of the Mental Health
Services Council, Thomas O. MacGilvray, of
Setauket.
As a member of the Board of
Visitors of the Binghamton Psychiatric Center,
Gerald Buckley, of Binghamton.
As a member of the Board of
Visitors of the Bronx Psychiatric Center,
Yvonne E. Chappell, of the Bronx.
As a member of the Board of
Visitors of the Buffalo Psychiatric Center,
Morris Raiken, of Buffalo.
As a member of the Board of
Visitors of the Capital District Developmental
Disabilities Services Office, Joan D. Taylor,
of Niskayuna.
As members of the Board of Visitors
of the Central New York Developmental
2658
Disabilities Services Office, Louis G. Best,
of Oneida, and Doris W. Latimer, of Rome.
As a member of the Board of
Visitors of the Helen Hayes Hospital, David
John McConnell, M.D., of Warwick.
As a member of the Board of
Visitors of the New York State Home for
Veterans and their Dependents at Montrose,
Mary Edith Meeks, of Garrison.
And as a member of the Board of
Visitors of the South Beach Psychiatric
Center, Linda Blyer, of Brooklyn.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Move the
nominations, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the confirmation of the
nominees. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
2659
nominees are confirmed.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: If we could
take up Calendar 804, Mr. President, at this
time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 804.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 804, Senator Stafford moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 11228 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 7325,
Third Reading Calendar 804.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
804, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 11228, an act making
appropriations for the support of government.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity and
appropriation at the desk?
2660
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a message at the desk.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Move to accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity and appropriation signify by saying
aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Section 33. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Morahan.
2661
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
can we take up the reading of the
noncontroversial calender at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, are
there some substitutions at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes,
there are, Senator Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: Can we take those
up before we proceed with the noncontroversial
reading of the calendar? Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the substitutions.
THE SECRETARY: On page 18,
Senator Bonacic moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Health, Assembly Bill Number
11114 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 6109, Third Reading
Calendar 360.
On page 22, Senator Spano moves to
discharge, from the Committee on
Investigations and Government Operations,
Assembly Bill Number 5821A and substitute it
2662
for the identical Senate Bill Number 4180A,
Third Reading Calendar 448.
On page 23, Senator Espada moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Labor,
Assembly Bill Number 2329 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6595,
Third Reading Calendar 474.
On page 24, Senator Seward moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Higher
Education, Assembly Bill Number 10452 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6686, Third Reading Calendar 508.
On page 29, Senator Volker moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Local
Government, Assembly Bill Number 2149A and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6215, Third Reading Calendar 573.
On page 42, Senator Maziarz moves
to discharge, from the Committee on
Transportation, Assembly Bill Number 11018 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6781, Third Reading Calendar 736.
On page 48, Senator Saland moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,
Assembly Bill Number 10662 and substitute it
2663
for the identical Senate Bill Number 7023,
Third Reading Calendar 793.
And on page 48, Senator Hoffmann
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
Agriculture, Assembly Bill Number 10152 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6526, Third Reading Calendar 801.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitutions ordered.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Civil Service and Pensions Committee in the
Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Immediate meeting of the Civil Service and
Pensions Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
will you proceed with the reading of the
noncontroversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
2664
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
121, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 123, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
establishing the Class E felony of unlawful
procurement.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
221, by Senator Morahan -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
349, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 6392, an
act to amend Chapter 729 of the Laws of 1994
2665
relating to affecting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
435, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5656, an
act to amend Chapter 549 of the Laws of 2000
amending the Civil Rights Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
2666
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
496, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
6671A, an act to amend the Public Housing Law,
in relation to creating.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
514, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 6567,
an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
Law, in relation to the authority.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
2667
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
544, by Senator Seward -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
546, by Senator Stafford -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
633, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3977, an
act to amend the Family Court Act and the
Domestic Relations Law, in relation to
violations.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
2668
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
688, by Senator lack, Senate Print 1916, an
act to amend the Real Property Law, in
relation to requiring.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
689, by Senator Alesi -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
2669
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
694, by Senator Bruno -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay that
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
721, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6703, an
act authorizing certain towns to implement.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
726, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6624, an
act to amend the State Finance Law, in
relation to changing the state fiscal year.
2670
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
act shall take effect upon the effective date
of the amendments to the Constitution
contained in a concurrent resolution.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
736, substituted earlier today by the Assembly
Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number
11018, an act to amend the Highway Law, in
relation to certain trail designations.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
2671
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
745, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1893, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
services.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
780, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7141, an
act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law, in relation to the employment of
retired persons.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2672
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
782, by Senator Bruno -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay it
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
783, by Senator Hoffmann -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
784, by Senator Morahan -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2673
785, by Senator Volker -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
788, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
3339, concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly.
SENATOR HEVESI: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
resolution aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
790, by Senator Morahan -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay it
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
794, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7318, an
act relating to prohibiting foreclosure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
2674
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
802, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 7, an act
to amend the State Finance Law, in relation
to -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay it
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
803, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1585A,
an act to amend the State Finance Law and the
Legislative Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes,
there is.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Move to accept.
2675
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay it
aside.
Senator Morahan, that completes the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
can we have the controversial reading of the
calendar at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
2676
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
221, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6106, an
act to amend the Volunteer Firefighters
Benefit Law, in relation to enacting.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 221 by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill would limit the liability
of fire departments in districts that donate
surplus equipment to rural, needy volunteer
fire companies, provided that the equipment
still meets the original specifications for
safety and use.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if Senator Morahan would yield for a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
2677
sponsor yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
I'm wondering what Senator Morahan feels about
the safety of the firefighters and any that
would come in contact with this equipment.
This seems obviously like a noble act to do
this, but still there's got to be some remedy
for individuals who might be injured because
of faulty equipment.
We certainly welcome and encourage
the donation of this type of equipment, and
certainly there's got to be some kind of
incentive we could provide for this. But to
close the doors of the court in case there's
any kind of injury because of some product
liability, in my opinion, is transferring a
harm away from one party and moving it to
another.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
I understand the question and the thrust of
the question. This bill is designed to
encourage the ability of rural fire companies
to attract donations and those sorts of
equipments they need.
First of all, as to the safety, the
2678
equipment would have to be recertified by a
certified certifier, I guess, who can attest
to the condition and to the -- that the
equipment meets the original specifications.
It still leaves the right for
anyone to sue, especially in the case of any
negligence or gross negligence that may be
indicated in the donation process. It does
have some exemptions. Manufacturers would
still be held to the same liability standards
as others.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
on the bill.
I think Senator Morahan is trying
to do a good thing, and I endorse it. But I
think that perhaps, off the top of my head,
some sort of tax incentives for the companies
that donate equipment would be a better way to
do this.
Obviously, most equipment that's
used in the firehouse is certifiable. And 98,
99 percent of the time, it's fail-safe. But
there are those occasions where it's not the
2679
case. And what we don't want to do is to
limit the rights of the injured, who in this
case could be firefighters, from seeking a
remedy. And I think nobody here would want it
to come to that end.
So I can't support the bill,
although I think the concept is terrific. And
perhaps there's just another way to do it.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect in 30 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 221 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, L. Krueger,
Paterson, and Sampson. Ayes, 52. Nays, 5.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
2680
President, could I have unanimous consent to
be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
804, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded
in the negative with regard to Calendar 804.
Senator Breslin.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes, Mr.
President, I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
221.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Breslin will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 221.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
544, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6558A, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
the payment of first-party benefits.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, an explanation has been requested of
2681
Calendar 544 by Senator Paterson.
SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, Mr.
President.
This legislation before us is a
complement to the bill which passed earlier
today, by Senator Skelos, in terms of making
it a felony to act as a so-called runner.
It's all directed -- Senator Skelos's bill,
this particular bill -- all directed toward
attacking the problem of no-fault fraud, which
has grown in New York to be about a
billion-dollar problem. And legitimate auto
insurance policyholders are paying this extra
billion dollars a year because of fraud.
We have seen information which
leads us to conclude that approximately $124
per auto insurance policy is added on as extra
expense because of the fraud problem. And
that's going to grow to an estimated $300 if
no action is taken. And this legislation is
the type of action which is needed to fight
the fraud problem that we have seen.
Now, specifically, the bill does a
number of things. It enhances the opportunity
to challenge fraud in terms of recent court
2682
decision. Insurers must now pay or deny a
claim within 30 days of receipt, and they may
not use fraud as a defense for not paying the
bill unless alleged within that 30-day time
period. This bill would allow insurers to
raise the defense after this 30-day period.
Now, I am as concerned as anyone to
make sure that legitimate claims are paid.
And the law calls for a penalty of 2 percent
interest per month, as well as attorney's
fees, for securing payment for overdue claims
should they be legitimate.
The bill also would decertify
health-care providers who have been involved
in fraud, and it would allow the
Superintendent of Insurance, in consultation
with the Commissioner of Health as well as
Education, to come up with regulations to
oversee this process.
But basically, we would conclude
that health-care providers should not be
allowed to be paid through the no-fault
program if there has been professional
misconduct or incompetency, knowingly making
false statements on medical reports in
2683
conjunction with no-fault claims, and refusing
to appear before the commissioners to answer
these charges.
All of these types of activities
could lead a health-care provider to be
decertified, and so they would not be paid
under the no-fault program.
The bill also would increase the
penalties for insurance fraud. We're hoping
here to, in the law, by increasing the
penalties, to make the statement that we are
no longer going to tolerate insurance fraud
because it's costing everyone. We're going to
increase the penalties, hoping that that will
help entice the interest of prosecutors and
law enforcement officials in pursuing these
cases.
Two other provisions, Mr.
President. The bill would create a temporary
panel on medical care and treatment under
no-fault to study the issue further and to
come up with ways to further improve the
system by not only reducing fraud and abuse
but also eliminating disputes and speeding up
payments of legitimate claims.
2684
And also, and finally, Mr.
President, the bill specifically states that
any of the savings that are derived from the
provisions in this bill by fighting fraud
would be required to be passed on to the
consumer, saving the auto insurance
policyholders of our state some money when
they go to purchase auto insurance policies.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I yield to
Senator Gentile.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Gentile.
SENATOR GENTILE: Thank you, Mr.
President. Thank you, Senator Dollinger.
I want to commend Senator Seward on
this bill and his attempts to address the
growing problem of auto insurance fraud.
Certainly this bill does address those issues,
with expanding insurers' ability to challenge
fraud, increasing penalties for fraud, and
prohibiting no-fault payments to health-care
providers who engage in fraud.
However, I believe that we can do
2685
better and have a more comprehensive bill, and
for that reason, Mr. President, I believe I
have an amendment at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, you
have an amendment at the desk. Would you like
to explain your amendment?
SENATOR GENTILE: I ask that we
waive the reading and that I be allowed to
explain my amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
is waived. Go ahead and explain your
amendment, Senator.
SENATOR GENTILE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This amendment to the bill would
provide a more comprehensive approach to the
issue of fraud, not only from the perspective
of the industry of the insurers, but also from
the perspective of consumers and having
consumers benefit more from a stepped-up
approach on the fraud issue.
For example, my amendment does
include some of the same provisions as Senator
Seward's bill, which would allow insurers to
challenge claims beyond the 30-day limit. It
2686
also prevents no-fault payments to health-care
providers that have been shown to be guilty of
medical misconduct and fraudulent activities.
Those are provisions that are in the main
bill.
But my amendment goes further, in
that -- much as Senator Skelos's bill does,
earlier in the calendar today -- this
amendment would make it a crime to act as a
runner in auto insurance cases. And certainly
that is something that we have on the calendar
today through Senator Skelos's bill.
But also this amendment adds
insurance fraud as a designated offense that
would warrant eavesdropping or wiretapping.
That is a very important law enforcement tool
in the area of insurance fraud. And this
amendment would make insurance fraud a
designated offense that would allow for
wiretapping as a law enforcement tool for our
police and investigators.
But the amendment goes further
because it offers the following provisions to
protect consumers. Indeed, in the city of
New York, motorists pay five times more than
2687
upstate motorists in terms of insurance. Many
times New York City motorists are paying more
in insurance than they are in their own car
payments -- for example, in Brooklyn and in
Staten Island.
In Staten Island, a 28-year-old
male driver in the state's assigned-risk pool
could pay anywhere between $2100 and $6800 a
month. In Brooklyn, a 20-year-old male driver
in the risk pool could pay anywhere from $3100
to $11,000 in premiums.
Certainly, even if you're 35 years
old, a 35-year-old Brooklyn driver in an
assigned-risk pool can still pay anywhere
between $2100 and $8100 a year just for auto
insurance premiums.
Those same drivers in the city of
Buffalo, the state's second largest city, can
pay somewhere between $1400 and $4600. In
Rochester, New York, our third largest city,
that 35-year-old driver in Brooklyn, who is
paying now somewhere between $2100 and $8100,
in Rochester, New York, would pay anywhere
from $535 to $2,000.
So you see that the motorists in
2688
the city of New York especially need some
relief.
So I think that if we're working on
the fraud issue, fairness demands that if a
fraud claim is made by an insurer and an
independent medical examination is required,
that those examinations be performed by
qualified and neutral medical parties. That
would be part of this amendment.
Right now we don't have that. This
amendment calls for a pool of doctors
appointed by the superintendent, and those
doctors would be just assigned without -- in
rotation. So I think that that would truly
make this a neutral medical examination, and
that would protect consumers, rather than have
medical exams directed by the insurance
company.
Also, this amendment provides for
an independent audit of auto insurance profits
and would revise the formula for determining
the excess profits that insurance companies
are now making.
Under current law, an industrywide
average of over 20 percent is now necessary to
2689
trigger a declaration of excess profits.
That's outrageous. Twenty percent is an
outrageous amount to trigger the excess
profit.
This bill would have an independent
audit -- this amendment would establish an
independent audit of insurance profits so that
we can bring that percentage down before we
trigger the excess profit rule.
It would also establish an office
of an insurance consumer advocate. The
insurance consumer advocate would be the
people's representative at rate increase
hearings and would be the people's
representative in terms of being an ombudsman
for people when they have auto insurance
problems. That is an important aspect of this
amendment.
The amendment also provides
no-fault premium reductions for consumers who
take advantage of utilizing managed care.
And finally, this amendment would
also provide no-fault premium reductions for
those motorists who might be retired or
disabled and therefore do not need to be
2690
paying a premium for loss of earnings from
work. That premium should not be charged to
motorists who are either retired or are
totally disabled and are not working. So
therefore, this amendment would reflect and
require that that portion of the premium not
be charged to those types of motorists.
In effect, what this amendment does
is to round out Senator Seward's bill so that
not only are the insurers protected, but
consumers are protected and certainly
protected in ways that they will be ensured
that their premiums will come down when fraud
is brought under control in this state.
I think this is a bill that every
senator representing the city of New York, it
would be almost imperative to vote on this
amendment. And certainly for the good of the
whole state, every member of this chamber
should vote on this amendment. But
particularly those members from the city of
New York, I think this is imperative.
So I offer this bill, Mr.
President, and I ask for a yes vote from each
member.
2691
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
senators in agreement with the amendment
please raise your hands.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Brown, Connor, Dollinger, Duane, Gentile,
Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi, L. Krueger, Lachman,
Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson,
Sampson, M. Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendment is defeated.
Senator Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, will Senator Seward yield to a
question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield for a question from
Senator Dollinger?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, the
first portion of the bill that is amended says
that the payment of the interest penalty and
2692
reasonable attorney's fees is the exclusive
remedy for an insurer's failure to pay
no-fault benefits within 30 days; is that
correct?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: What current
remedies are available beyond the payment of
the reasonable attorney's fees and the
interest penalty that we are now precluding
people from obtaining?
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
since this involved a recent court decision,
I'm seeking the advice of counsel.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think I
know the decision. That's why I'm asking.
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
the answer is that the ability to raise the
defense after the 30-day period in terms of
the fraud, possible fraud.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But through
you, Mr. President, if Senator Seward will
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
2693
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: In that case
that you're referencing, Senator Seward, and
in other cases, hasn't it actually been the
case that there are other forms of damages
that could be assessed against insurers for
willful, intentional, and deliberate failure
to promptly pay the no-fault insurance
benefits, either the medical claims or the
lost wage component?
And don't those damages -- can't
they, under New York law, include punitive
damages in some cases?
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I
do not believe so.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if Senator Seward will continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, Senator
2694
Seward, then I'm curious as to why we're
making it an exclusive remedy, which seems to
suggest that we're cutting off some other
remedy that currently exists under state law.
Why would we need this amendment?
If the statute now provides that interest and
reasonable attorney's fees are available as a
damage award, why are we now saying that
they're exclusive?
I assume because a court somewhere
has assessed some other form of damage against
insurers who deliberately, intentionally, and
willfully fail to pay within 30 days.
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
the -- we're playing a bit with words here.
The other form of defense would be the fact
that the insurer was unable to raise the
defense of fraud after the 30-day period.
Now, we are saying now that the -
that that is possible to be done after the
30-day period. However, should that not be
the case, that there are penalties to the
insurer, that being the 2 percent per month
interest, as well as attorney's fees, for any
claim not paid within -- any legitimate claim
2695
not paid within the 30-day period.
And that is directed toward making
sure that only those cases and those claims
where there's really fraud involved are the
ones that go beyond the 30-day period.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if Senator Seward will continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm just
confused. I understand the assertion of the
fraud defense, and I understand that your bill
says that the current law, which provides that
it must be asserted within 30 days, is now
being extended to say that at some point after
the 30 days they would still have the right to
raise the fraud defense.
But that isn't quite the focus of
my question, Senator Seward. What I'm trying
to find out is, under current law, you can get
reasonable attorney's fees and the 2 percent
2696
per month payment penalty. There is no
language under the current law that says
that's an exclusive remedy.
I assume that the reason why you're
putting the exclusive language in this bill
now is because some court has imposed other
remedies against insurers who fail to pay on
time.
Is it your intention to cut off
punitive or other damage claims against
insurers by virtue of this amendment?
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
it is certainly not our intent, nor does this
language cut off any of the other available
punitive damages.
Our intent here is to respond to
the court decision, which said that the claim
had to be paid or denied within a 30-day
period, even though many times the claims were
180 days old, when it came to the medical
claims.
And this change that we are
suggesting here is merely to respond to the
court decision and put the language back and
the process back as it existed prior to the
2697
court decision. Which, since the court
decision, I might add, fraud has been
increasing. It's one of those circumstances
which I believe has contributed to more fraud.
And we are intending to just go
back to the way it was prior to the court
decision, to have legitimate claims paid and,
where there is fraud involved, or alleged
fraud, to give the insurers more time to root
out the fraud, gather the facts, and make a
determination.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if Senator Seward will yield
just to one other question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield for one more question?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, your
bill says that the failure of an insurer to
make a timely payment after a proof of claim
has been filed shall not preclude such
insured -- and I'm dealing with lines 2 and 3
on page 2 -- shall not preclude such insurer
2698
from issuing a denial or asserting a defense
after the 30-day period has elapsed.
Is it your intention that the only
defense that could be alleged after the 30-day
period is a defense based on fraud? Because
this suggests that any defense or any denial
is possible after the 30-day period.
The way I understand your response
to the questions, you're saying that if they
find out that there's fraud after the 30-day
period, they shouldn't be precluded from
attempting to cut off the benefits, which I
agree with.
But this language suggests that
it's any defense or any reason for a denial,
not just fraud. And that's what I'm trying to
find out. Are you specifically making it
exclusive just to fraud as a basis for denial
after 30 days, or any reason for denial?
SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr.
President, obviously because the fraud issue
is the large one, the language would suggest
that obviously fraud is the big one. However,
the language would not preclude other
defenses.
2699
For example, if it became known
that the claimant was no longer a
policyholder, for example, that coverage had
been dropped, for some reason that became
known after the 30-day period, those types of
other circumstances could be used as a
defense, not exclusively a fraud.
However, obviously, fraud is the
big one.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a final
question, Mr. President, if Senator Seward
will yield.
SENATOR SEWARD: One more final
question, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: The answers
always prompt another one, Senator Seward.
If there's a payment that is made
and an insurer subsequently issues a denial or
a contest of the payment, does this bill
authorize the insurer to go back and recover
that payment from the recipient of the
no-fault benefits?
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
2700
the insurer would then be able, under those
circumstances, would then be able to seek
repayment if in fact the claim was paid
inappropriately.
In other words, if fraud or some
other circumstance arose that would have led
to the facts -- would point to the fact that
the claim was not legitimately paid. Or
appropriately paid, I should say.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, on the bill just briefly.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate
Senator Seward's responses to my questions.
And I'll explain my concern.
And frankly, even as I stand here
right now, I'm still not sure how I'm going to
vote.
But I'm always nervous, Mr.
President, when we tinker with the no-fault
insurance law. And the reason for that is, as
many people -- certainly those who were here,
Senator Marchi, Senator Stafford, who were
here when we struck the compromise on the
2701
no-fault statute in the mid-1970s, what we
agreed was that the people of the State of
New York would give up their right to sue for
certain small claims, certain -- the old
whiplash injury, which, as Mr. President
knows, was sort of one of the common claims
that seemed to clutter our courtrooms.
What we did is we reached a
compromise. We said you can't sue unless you
stain a serious physical injury. But
irrespective of whether you've been seriously
injured or not, we will guarantee prompt
payment of your lost wages, with certain
limitations, and all of your medical bills
that stem from the automobile collision.
That was the compromise that we
reached in order to encourage insurers to make
sure that the payments were promptly made.
Since they've given up their right to sue,
they could no longer get pain and suffering,
we guaranteed them that they'd get their
medical payments and their income subsidies as
quickly as possible within 30 days.
This bill -- and I should add, in
order to require prompt payment, we said, as a
2702
matter of state policy, to make that promise
of quick payments for medical expenses and
income loss, we said they've got to pay it in
30 days and, if they don't, they can sue for
attorney's fees and a 2 percent per month
interest payment.
At that time we concluded that that
was the incentive. Let people sue for
attorney's fees and interest -- that will keep
the insurers honest -- and make sure that they
promptly pay or deny.
What this bill now seeks to do -
and it's troubling, Mr. President -- is,
number one, it suggests that the 2 percent
penalty and reasonable attorney's fees have
become the exclusive remedy for someone in
that situation.
My guess is that that language
stems from the fact that somewhere a jury has
sat down and concluded, wait a second, the
irresponsible conduct of an insurance company
was so intentional, so deliberate, caused such
harm to the plaintiff that we've decided we're
not only going to give them reasonable
attorney's fees, we're not only give them the
2703
2 percent penalty, we're going to give them
some form of punitive damages.
And my guess is that somewhere in
this state an insurance company was hit with
punitive damages for deliberate and
intentional, if not reckless, disregard of
their obligations under the no-fault law. My
guess is that this language is designed to
eliminate any future penalties in terms of
punitive damages for breach of the insurance
contract.
I don't know -- Senator Seward said
he wasn't necessarily aware of that, but my
guess is that somewhere someone got socked
with punitive damages because they did
something outrageous, and this bill will now
eliminate the risk or liability for punitive
damages.
The other concern I have, Mr.
President -- again, I'm still not quite sure
what that means and how it works -- Senator
Seward said that we weren't going to eliminate
punitive damages. I hope that's the case.
I'm not so sure that that's what this says.
My second concern, Mr. President,
2704
is that I believe an insurer should have the
right to raise the fraud defense at any time.
If you're aware, even after the 30 days, that
someone has committed fraud, you shouldn't be
making their medical payments and you
shouldn't be precluded from raising that
defense.
I'm concerned, however, that this
seems to suggest that any denial and any
defense can occur at any time and you don't
even have to allege fraud, you can just say
the bills weren't presented on time or some
other basis for a defense or denial.
Again, Senator Seward has suggested
that that's not the intention, that the
intention is to focus on fraud. I'm not quite
clear in my own mind that that's the case.
This bill has other things to
commend it, and I'm always reluctant to take
two little pieces up and vote against it. But
I'm concerned that we're in essence
backtracking on the agreement we made with the
people of this state when we passed the
no-fault law to promise them quick payment of
their medical expenses, quick payment of their
2705
lost income, and that what we're doing is
suggesting to the insurance industry: Well,
we required you to do it in 1974 when we
passed the no-fault law, but here we are
thirty years later, we've decided we weren't
really as serious about prompt payment as we
subjected we might have been in 1974.
Reluctantly, Mr. President, I'm
probably going to vote against this.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President. Would the sponsor please yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I'm interested to know -- in the
sponsor's bill we are creating a new
classification of a crime, aggravated
insurance fraud in the first and second
2706
degree -- if the sponsor could indicate what
are the current penalties for the four degrees
of insurance fraud under current law and what
does his legislation increase that to.
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
the legislation would cut in half the value of
the property obtained through a fraudulent
insurance act in order to be convicted of
insurance fraud. So in terms of the penalties
involved, you can refer to existing law.
The change that we make here is
by -- for example, insurance fraud in the
fourth degree, which is a Class E felony, the
value would be reduced from $1,000 down to
$500, and so on up through the various degrees
and classes of felony. The value of the
property involved that is obtained through a
fraudulent act is cut in half. That's what
this bill does.
And of course the corresponding
penalties which are currently in the law would
be -- would apply as well.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
would the sponsor continue to yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
2707
Seward, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I understand that. I'm curious to
know -- you have attempted here, apparently,
to crack down on recidivists in the area of
insurance fraud by creating this aggravated
category for those who have committed this
crime over a certain monetary threshold at
least once in the last five years. My
question to you is, what is the current
penalty? It is an A misdemeanor? Is it an E
felony? And what do you move it to by
creating this aggravated condition?
SENATOR SEWARD: There is
currently one degree of aggravated insurance
fraud, and we would add two more, a C and a B.
For the C and the B felony.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
would the sponsor continue to yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield?
2708
SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: We're moving a C
felony for insurance fraud in the first
degree -- if the individual now is convicted
of aggravated insurance fraud in the first
degree, it moves to a B felony?
SENATOR SEWARD: I wonder if the
Senator could repeat the question. What
specifically is the question involved?
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President, I
am trying to determine -- and there is a point
to this, because I am sure some percentage of
that billion dollars -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Excuse
me, Senator Hevesi.
If you have a conversation that is
necessary, please take it outside the chamber.
Senator Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I am trying to determine, because
of the billion-dollar a year insurance fraud
issue that we're discussing now -- and I'm not
2709
sure how we get to that billion-dollar
figure -- some very large percentage of that
dollar figure of insurance fraud is committed
by repeat offenders.
Senator Seward, I believe, has
appropriately attempted to tackle that issue
of recidivism in this area, and I'm looking to
see whether his increased penalties for this
will have a deterrent effect.
But in order to do that, I need to
know first what are the current penalties for
insurance fraud in the first degree, second
degree, third degree, and fourth degree, and
what happens if somebody is a recidivist and
is convicted under Senator Seward's new
aggravated insurance fraud in the first and
second degrees. That's my question.
SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr.
President, the penalties would obviously go up
as the degree of insurance fraud is increased,
as long as there are two occurrences within
five years.
SENATOR HEVESI: Okay. Let me
move on, Mr. President, to one other area, if
the sponsor would continue to yield. And I'll
2710
check the print before I vote on this.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President, Senator
Gentile's amendment I thought had a number of
good provisions, one in particular, which was
the provision where the 20 percent allowable
profit for insurance companies will be
examined by an independent auditor and
hopefully reduced.
My question to you is the
following, Senator Seward. If your bill is
wildly successful beyond our imaginations,
beyond our wildest imaginations, how will we
know that there will be a commensurate
reduction in auto insurance rates?
And the reason I pose this
question -- well, you know, let me just ask
the question. How do we know we're going to
see a reduction in insurance rates if we are
successful with your bill cracking down on
2711
insurance fraud?
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President,
our bill states that any of the savings
derived from this act will be required to be
passed on to the consumer in the form of
savings. And obviously that is the
responsibility of the Insurance Superintendent
to calculate the savings and then to require
them to be passed on to the consumer.
On the issue of excess profits, I
would say this. The -- that really is not an
issue at this particular time. I am -- no one
is suggesting that the increase in the auto
insurance premiums have been the result of
excess profits on the part of the insurance
companies in this particular cycle.
But we do have, in place now,
excess profit legislation. And I think that
it's -- obviously that's something that we
would continue to look at should that be an
issue. It currently is not.
And that is the responsibility of
the Insurance Superintendent, to make sure
that the savings that are derived from this
legislation or Senator Skelos' runner bill
2712
that we passed or the other activities on the
part of the Insurance Department -- fraud is
being fought on a number of fronts. They've
just changed the Regulation 68, which is a
fraud-fighting administrative piece that they
have done.
All of these initiatives I think
are positive and go to the heart of trying to
save money for the consumer. And it's the
responsibility of the Insurance
Superintendent, clearly stated under our
legislation, to pass on those savings to the
consumer. As well as, in the area of excess
profits, for them to review those as well.
I'm open to discussing that, you
know, under different circumstances, but that
really is not the issue in terms of high auto
insurance rates at this time.
SENATOR HEVESI: Mr. President,
one final question for the sponsor. I was
going to end there, but based on his question,
one final question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Seward, do you yield?
SENATOR SEWARD: Yes.
2713
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Do you know how much -- what was
the profit level of auto insurance carriers in
New York State over the past two or three
years, what was it, and which way it's been
trending? Because I do believe it is a most
important issue, and it relates directly to
this.
SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I
could not quote, you know, the profit margin
for various companies. But I will say this.
Most of the companies actually lost money last
year. And believe me, if -- on their auto
business. And that's why you've seen a
contraction and hardening of the market here
in New York.
And so obviously, if that was a
factor at this time, we would be open to
address it. It is not a factor in terms of
what we're attempting to do under this bill,
which is to address the real issue at this
time, and that is fraud.
2714
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you.
On the bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi, on the bill.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Maybe I'm speaking out of turn
here. But if Senator Gentile's information is
correct, and I've always known it to be, if
insurance companies are -- notwithstanding
this bill, if insurance companies are allowed
to make a profit of 20 percent irrespective
the gains that we make -- again, I said
notwithstanding this bill, the provisions of
this bill -- even if you drive down, for
example, auto theft rates, even if you drive
down fraud, there still could be allowable
increases in insurance premiums up to that
20 percent.
And in fact, Mr. President, I
believe that is exactly what has happened over
the past ten years. And the example of this
that I would offer is that in the early 1990s,
when insurance premiums in New York State were
exceptionally high, we weren't hearing what
2715
we're hearing today. I don't mean today on
this day, I mean generally now. Today we're
hearing that it's because of insurance fraud,
the billion dollars a year, that's why
premiums are so high.
What did we hear ten years ago?
Auto theft. That's what we heard ten years
ago. And what happened, Mr. President? Auto
theft was driven down unbelievably. In my own
Senate district, in the five or six police
precincts, auto theft is down 55 to
60 percent. And we did not see a commensurate
reduction in premiums. We didn't see it.
And I suspect that it's because of
this issue that Senator Gentile has
articulated that absolutely needs to be
examined, that was in his amendment but is not
in this bill.
And in terms of the benefits of
Senator Seward's potential reductions, if he
is successful -- we are successful, because
I'm going to vote for this -- in cracking down
on insurance fraud, that money is supposed to
be filtered back into reductions in premiums,
I -- to be honest, I think that's terrific; I
2716
don't know how you could possibly quantify
that.
If one of the criminal penalties
that we have increased here results in
somebody going to jail for a longer period of
time, what's the dollar figure that will
reduce my auto insurance premium on that? I
don't understand.
And to be honest with you -- and
maybe somebody can correct me. I am no expert
on this -- but the billion-dollar-a-year
figure that we keep hearing, I don't
understand this. If we know exactly how much
it is and we know exactly where it's coming
from, and there are penalties right now in the
law that, although not sufficient, could be
increased for recidivism, but in Senator
Seward's bill we don't increase, I believe,
anywhere from a first-time offense -- then why
is it, Mr. President, that we have not seen
any reductions, and why is it that everybody
just accepts this billion-dollar figure about
insurance fraud? And, by extension, allows
the premiums just to continue upwards and
upwards and upwards?
2717
I don't believe it, is what I'm
saying, Mr. President. I don't believe it.
And this situation we have now
where a 20 percent profit is allowed -
listen, if this was Time Warner/AOL, if this
was some other big company, fantastic. Go get
yourself 80 percent profits, 150 percent
profits. But when the State of New York
mandates that people have to have this
coverage and if they don't have it they can't
drive, and if they can't drive they can't take
their kids to school or get to work, then
we're going to be the ones who need to
determine whether or not they should be
achieving profits that are hurting people
badly. And I believe they are now.
So I'm not disputing the fact that
there's insurance fraud. There is. I'm not
disputing the fact that we need to drive it
down. We do.
What I'm disputing here and
suggesting that we have not addressed -- pand
Senator Gentile tried to address it -- is we
need to take a close look, a close-scrutiny
examination of the profits of insurance
2718
companies at the same time we're looking at
this issue of insurance fraud. Because these
issues are linked, inextricably linked.
And the fact that auto theft is
down in New York City, dramatically, and
comprehensive coverage is not down tells me
that this is an insurance industry that says:
It's costing us less now because we're paying
out less claims on auto theft -- but we are
allowed to make a certain profit and we're
nowhere near that profit, so we're going to
increase the amount of money that we're
charging in premiums.
If there's some other explanation
for it, Mr. President, I'd like to hear it.
But I'm going to support Senator Seward's
bill. I support Senator Gentile's very well
thought out and comprehensive amendment.
Something needs to be done here, because this
is a tremendous problem.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know,
insurance is an absolute necessity for most
2719
people. It's definitely a necessity if you
want to drive. And there's no question that
there's insurance fraud that's committed by
individuals who actually purchase insurance
policies. There's no question about that.
There is no way, as Senator Hevesi
says -- and I agree 100 percent -- that anyone
can quantify the number at $1 billion,
$10 billion or whatever billion dollars. It's
a number that gets people's attention so that
certain relief that carriers want will happen.
It's as simple as that.
The fact of the matter is what
bothers me is not only the concept about auto
theft ten years ago, but if anyone was
around -- many of you were obviously around
when we repealed Doe versus Dow because of all
this high cost of workers' compensation. And
this case, insurance companies were telling
us, is the real reason workers' compensation
rates are going off the wall.
Well, we bought it, and workers'
compensation rates went down for a while. Now
they're creeping up all over again. It
obviously wasn't that case that did it.
2720
Secondly, we're all inundated by
contractors right now, with the cost of
insurance for contractors because of these
terrible bills, 240 and 241 of the Labor Law.
And we're told that, coincidentally, every
insurance carrier in the state, starting last
year and coming on to this year, has to raise
their rates an identical amount or not even
provide insurance.
It gets people's attention.
Contractors are beating all of us up on the
theory that it's this law that's causing
insurance rates to go up.
Well, I've done some research in
other states where these things have happened
as well, and there's some research that I
didn't bring with me -- I was going to -- that
basically shows there's an incredible
correlation between when the stock market goes
down and the insurance industry's investments
aren't as terrific as they used to be, then
all of a sudden there's fraud, there's needs
to increase policy limits beyond imagination.
And it just so happens we went
through one of the downers of the stock
2721
market.
We're not obligated to make sure
that insurance companies invest properly.
We're not bailing anybody else out who lost
money in the market and their profits are
down. And we've got to look at these bills
very, very carefully.
And what also bothers me about this
bill an awful lot is if you look at the
definition of "fraudulent insurance act" in
the Penal Law, it talks only about
policyholders who act in a fraudulent fashion.
Nothing is said about the fact where an
insurance company willfully, intentionally
denies coverage, knowing that they're entitled
to coverage, whether it be auto insurance or
whether it be fire insurance or whatever
insurance policy.
In other words, we are to presume
that businesses always operate in good faith
and there's no remedy if they don't. And the
remedy against insurers if they don't pay
under this bill is a remedy that simply says
that you pay interest plus attorney's fees
only. Even if they're acting intentionally or
2722
wrongfully. That's the exclusive remedy.
How is that a balanced approach to
the consumer or to anybody this in state?
How can you vote against a bill
that wants to cut back fraud? Well, I wasn't
intending to do it, but I'm going to vote
against it today for those reasons. Because I
think this is not a balanced bill, I don't
think the numbers are accurate, nor can anyone
come out with numbers unless you know what
fraud is already happening. And how can you
quantify that if you haven't caught these
people?
And secondly, I think it's -- the
major reason for all of these insurance crises
right now are loss of profits. Not from
fraud, not from theft, not from this, not from
that, not from an increase in claims all of a
sudden under 240 and 241 of the Labor Law.
We've had that bill in effect forever. Why
this year? It's following a stock market
decline, a big-time decline, and insurance
companies' profits are down.
Well, get somebody better to manage
your investments. Don't ask us to keep
2723
raising premiums or to make penalties on
consumers when consumers are the ones that buy
policies for a reason, and the reason is for
protection. Not to be given more and more
rules that make it more and more difficult to
get your coverage and then later on you have
no defenses except a minor defense. When, if
you're wrong and you're doing something wrong,
there's big-time offenses now -- B, C
felonies.
So there's got to be some balance
in the system. There's got to be some
realization that there's a correlation between
things other than fraud and increased rates.
And I am going to vote no for that
reason, until we get balanced bills or until
we get another bill that correspondingly finds
that there's such a thing in the state of
New York as insurance fraud by companies
intentionally and wrongfully withholding
payments from their claimants.
And when we get a balanced bill,
then everybody should be involved with
being -- everybody should be punished for
fraud, no matter what side of the issue you're
2724
on.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on this bill?
Debate is closed, then.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Breslin, to explain his vote.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I applaud Senator Seward and his
staff as well as Senator DeFrancisco and
Senator Hevesi and Senator Dollinger for
raising serious and valid questions concerning
the legislation, and particularly Senator
Gentile for his amendments.
This is a start. We're talking
about an element of insurance, fraud. Is this
the final answer? Absolutely not. Do we need
the other house? Yes. Should this debate go
2725
on to include all of the other elements of car
insurance and auto insurance? It really
should, because, as you know, we now approach
New Jersey as the highest state. And this
shouldn't be -- this shouldn't be -- or -
you're smiling. We may even have exceeded
New Jersey over the last 24 hours.
This should be something that we
quickly get together on, to not only do the
piecemeal approach to fraud but to come
together to have a full package on auto
insurance.
But because it's a start, I'll vote
yes on this piece of legislation.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Breslin will be recorded in the affirmative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 544 are
Senators Andrews, Brown, Connor, DeFrancisco,
Dollinger, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,
Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Sampson,
Schneiderman, A. Smith, M. Smith, Stavisky.
Also Senator L. Krueger.
2726
Ayes, 43. Nays, 16.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Malcolm Smith.
SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH: Yes, Mr.
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 221.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Malcolm Smith will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 221.
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Mr.
President. I would also request unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar 221, Senate 6106.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Schneiderman will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 221.
Senator Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President,
I too wish to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar 221, Senate 6106.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Stavisky will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 221.
2727
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
President.
On behalf of Senator Larkin, I wish
to place a sponsor's star on Calendar 741.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: So
ordered.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Marcellino, Mr. President, on page 45
I offer the following amendments to Calendar
767, Senate Print 7091. That's on behalf of
Senator Marcellino.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Hoffmann, on page 34 I offer the
following amendments to Calendar 659, Senate
Print 4089A, and I ask that that bill retain
its place.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator LaValle, on page 28 I offer the
2728
following amendments to Calendar 561, Senate
Print 3636, and I ask that that bill retain
its place.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
546, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6577,
an act to amend the Public Officers Law, in
relation to permitting.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
please.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
many of us have thought long and hard about
this bill. This bill was introduced at the
request of the Ethics Commission.
Now, what this bill will do, it
will make it possible for individuals to
contract with the state in the event of an
emergency. But they would not be able to do
this without this legislation.
Now, I again, like others here in
2729
the chamber, have contemplated this
legislation. And of course it would only go
in effect or be in effect if the Governor
determined a state of emergency. And all of
us in this day and age understand a state of
emergency, especially after this last fall.
Also, those of us who live in the
North Country understand when it is necessary
to have services where this bill might kick
in: the ice storm. And before last weekend
this memo was written, and it must have had
something in mind, because it includes an
earthquake. We had an earthquake, 5.1.
Now, I remember the earthquake of
1941, where chimneys were knocked down. I
remember the earthquake in 1983 which was
strong enough so that you couldn't leisurely
get out of bed, it actually held you, the way
it was pushing you. But this one, it seemed
to come right from under Lake Champlain and go
right into the mountains. And ladies and
gentlemen, you took note. You took note.
There have been a number of
problems since then, millions of dollars of
damage. Fortunately, no one was -- we hope -
2730
so far we know of no one who was hurt. We
have a rural area, and sometimes it takes time
to get the entire area covered. However, some
of you might have seen one of the roads that
was buckled. And in other words, very, very
serious.
So I explain to you that in a case
of emergency I would suggest that a
commissioner, after an emergency is declared
by the Governor, should have this opportunity.
Because time is of the essence, and we all
have experienced what emergencies are all
about.
Thank you very much.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, I'll yield to Senator Paterson.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
now that I have able counsel over here, I have
some good questions I want to ask.
First, I'd like to thank Senator
2731
Stafford for clearing up that disturbance
about ten days ago. He said it was an
earthquake, 5.1 on the Richter scale. I
thought it was the implementation of the
Governor's new reapportionment plan.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR PATERSON: But if the
Senator would yield for a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, I will.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
the -- a state of emergency such as the one
that we in had in the state eight and a half
months ago, would -- were there any
circumstances in the last few months that
created the notion that on September 11th that
this occasion -- has this presented itself
such that we were unable to utilize some
needed resources that were denied us as a
result of this last attack on our state and on
New York City?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, Mr.
2732
President, you're going to think that I just
set Senator Paterson up to throw me these
softballs. It's almost embarrassing.
We found out during the ice storm,
the ice storm, when there were people living
in various areas in rural areas and it was
impossible to get to them, that we needed an
electrical contractor or a person to do some
electrical work that evening, and it was
impossible for him to be hired by the state to
do it.
So you -- I'm explaining exactly
why that was necessary. And thank you for the
question.
SENATOR PATERSON: You're
welcome, Senator.
If the Senator would continue to
yield.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the
powers granted the commissioner through the
Governor's execution of this order declaring
that it's an emergency situation, to me they
seem overbroad. There isn't any limitation to
them. There's no time period, there's not
2733
even any mention of its relationship to the
actual event.
So theoretically, couldn't this
open the door for a kind of continued
relationship where once the tragedy abated
itself, such an ice storm, perhaps, there
wouldn't be that emergency situation that
would necessitate that kind of extraordinary
resource?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
Mr. President, again to reply to Senator
Paterson, the very essence of this is to allow
flexibility. And therefore, to have any type
of restrictions really defeats what we're
attempting to do here.
Now, when you use the word
"flexibility," or the "reasonable man" -- of
course, one man's ceiling is another man's
floor.
SENATOR PATERSON: I've just hit
the ceiling.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the
2734
bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I want
Senator Stafford to know that I woke up that
morning of the earthquake and figured that his
dream had come true: the epicenter of New
York State was in Plattsburgh. I thought Ron
Stafford must be happy. Even though there's
an earthquake going on, somebody said the
epicenter is in Plattsburgh. I figured that
Senator Stafford's dream had come true and now
the Battle of Plattsburgh would have its place
in the nation's folklore.
Mr. President, I'm going to vote
against this bill, just as I voted against the
amendment we did for the Y2K problem. In the
year 2000, or actually I think it was 1999,
there was an amendment proposed by the State
Ethics Commission at that time to allow a
deviation from our very strict rules with
respect to conflicts of interest when former
state employees are selling their services
back to the state on projects with which they
had been involved.
2735
And let me suggest, Mr. President,
that this bill has more flexibility -- Senator
Stafford said there was need for flexibility.
This bill is not flexible, Mr. President, it
is completely elastic. It is like chewing
gum. It can be blown up into a bubble that
surpasses our reasonable expectations.
Because this bill says that the
Governor declares an emergency and then the
head of the agency simply says that the former
officer or employee's services are, quote,
required. Required. That's all it has to
say, is that they're required.
In 1999, when we created the
exception for Y2K problems, we said that in
order to use the services of a former state
employee to deal with the Y2K problem, you had
to show that they had unique or outstanding
capabilities. Not that they were just
required, but that there was a unique quality
to that employee.
In other words, someone leaves,
retires, goes to work for a consultant -- if
they have some absolutely unique capability
that we can't duplicate elsewhere, then we
2736
will waive the prohibitions in our conflict of
interest rules.
This law, this proposal, says that
the state agency head -- not the Governor, not
the Attorney General, but the state agency
head -- can simply certify that they're,
quote, required. Not that they're unique, not
that they are indispensable, not that they
can't be found elsewhere in the marketplace,
but that they're simply required.
I would suggest that that's far too
low a bar when we determine our rules for
conflicts of interest.
Secondly, this bill has no
limitation on time. This bill says that if
there's a disaster declared and eight months
later, long after the disaster has passed,
long -- it doesn't put any limitation -- long
after the disaster has passed, a state agency
head can say: I need the services of this
former employee, I'm going to file this form,
and I'm going to waive the conflict of
interest rules.
There's no interest on how long
after the disaster is declared that the former
2737
state employee can, in essence, violate our
current ethics rules. I would suggest, Mr.
President, that this bill has more flexibility
than it needs.
And I would also suggest, Mr.
President, that if there's one thing we've
learned, it's whenever the danger of a
conflict of interest arises, it is most acute
and the public focuses its view most intently
when a disaster or an emergency occurs.
That's the moment when we're spending lots of
government money when, quite frankly, we ought
to be absolutely, totally scrupulous in who we
hire.
It will not look and it will not
smell good. It will not look good if at times
of emergency we suddenly say: Oh, services
are required, let's bring back the old team,
let's all put them back on the state payroll,
everybody will make a fortune. Aren't these
emergencies declared by the Governor wonderful
things, because all the former state employees
can come back to work and make money at the
taxpayers' expense.
Mr. President, there is a way to
2738
draft this bill. I believe the State Ethics
Commission has not drafted it properly. It's
far too broad. Put a limitation as to time.
Only in the case of emergency, only when the
emergency exists should it be waived. And
require that there be a finding that they're
absolutely essential, they're services that
can't be duplicated elsewhere in the
marketplace.
When you do that, Mr. President,
I'll vote for this bill. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Debate is closed, then.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 546 are
Senators Andrews, Dollinger, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, and Paterson. Ayes, 55.
Nays, 5.
2739
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. With the consent of the
Minority -- please recognize Senator Andrews.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Andrews.
SENATOR ANDREWS: Yes, Mr.
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 221,
Senate 6106.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Andrews will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 221.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. With the consent of the Minority,
we'd like to call several bills out of order
by Senator Bruno, starting with Calendar 694.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Secretary will read Calendar
694.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
694, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6623A,
2740
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Article 7 of
the Constitution.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will call the roll on the
resolution.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
much, Mr. President.
We're about to see, I think, a
whole slew of budget reform bills. Although
it strikes me that this is just a matter of
everybody getting to have a bill which they
can put in their newsletter as saying that,
you know, they introduced and got passed in
the Senate.
I mean, if we were truly serious
about this, then I think we would just -
perhaps the Majority could sort of moosh all
these bills together and make one bill. I
mean, it just seems strange to me that the
Majority can't even decide among themselves
which one of these bills they think or which
2741
combination of these bills should be part of
their reform package.
So if they can't decide among
themselves, I'm not really sure how it is that
they're going to negotiate with the Assembly
about it.
You know, the other thing is I
don't really understand how passing any of
these bills will make any difference. We
already have a Constitution. We already have
laws. We can't follow those laws now. So I
don't know why we would pass more bills which
we wouldn't follow anyway. If we were so
concerned about passing bills and making them
into law, we would be following the laws that
we presently have on the books.
I just -- again, it just flies in
the face of the seriousness of whether or not
we really want to reform the way the budget is
being done by having before us today several
different bills -- one, two, three, four,
five, six, seven budget reform bills, some of
which are at odds with each other.
So I would say maybe the best way
to do real budget reform would, first of all,
2742
be to try and follow the laws which we already
have on the books. If that doesn't work, then
call in the majority and the minority of both
houses, good government groups, other
constituencies around the state, and pass a
comprehensive bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, your two minutes has expired. How do
you vote?
SENATOR DUANE: Um -- no.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: I
thought so, but I wanted to check.
Senator Duane will be recorded in
the negative.
Senator Stachowski, to explain his
vote.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I don't plan
on taking the two minutes.
I just want to briefly point out
that I have a problem with any reform package
that uses the Governor's new budget as the
in-place package while there's a disagreement.
It begs the question of if the Governor -
whichever governor it is. Could be the
2743
current governor, could be a future governor,
could be a past governor.
If you're using the budget he
submitted as the basis to carry on while
you're trying to come to an agreement, why on
earth would he negotiate anything? And if
he's not negotiating, he's just sitting back
waiting to veto anything that is above and
beyond anything that's in his package.
So it seems to me a bad point of
start to use the Governor's submitted budget.
I kind of like the one, further up, which
we'll get to, where it says current services
budget. That's not bad. Because then he's
got something of interest.
But if you're using his budget as
your point, why would he bother doing anything
except sit back, wait to maybe do another pile
of 1300 veto messages.
So because of that reason, and I
think it's a flawed reform system using that
submission, I'm going to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will announce the
2744
results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar 694 are Senators
Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi, Onorato,
Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Schneiderman,
Stachowski, and Stavisky. Ayes, 47. Nays,
13.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. Can we now call up Calendar 726.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 726.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
726, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6624, an
act to amend the State Finance Law, in
relation to changing the date of the state
fiscal year.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
act shall take effect upon the effective date
of the amendments to the Constitution.
2745
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
A wonderful unintended impact of
having so many of these budget reform bills is
that I can speak for two minutes on all of
them. And so even if I was unable to finish
my remarks on the first one, I will have ample
opportunity to continue to explain why I'm
opposing these budget bills today.
As I was saying, instead of
practically -- well, I shouldn't say
practically every member of the Majority, but
a good, healthy portion of them have their own
bill, which I'm sure will look beautiful in
their newsletters.
I just want to suggest what might
make an even better picture, and that would be
a picture of all of us together at a hearing
on budget reform. I for one would like to put
that picture with a lovely caption:
2746
Bipartisan group of Senators meeting together
on budget reform.
I hope that that's not going to be
a pie-in-the-sky dream but in fact a dream
which can be achieved and provide a photo
opportunity in my newsletter.
I'll be voting no on this, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the negative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
2. Senators Duane and Paterson recorded in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
will you please call up Calendar 782.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 782.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
782, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6,
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Article 7 of
2747
the Constitution.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: On the bill, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi, on the resolution.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
First of all, I'd like to remind
Senator Duane that we have two hours of
discussion on each one of these bills if we so
desire. So let me take this opportunity to
get into a discussion of some of the issues
that he has brought up, because he has not
fully covered them because of those time
constraints.
I'm going to be voting against this
bill and all of the constitutional amendments
that seem to want to take us in a direction
that would facilitate an on-time budget. I
believe that that's the premise of these
bills.
I actually think that these bills,
amending the Constitution to provide default
2748
budgets or that we move, in the case of an
untimely budget, to what the Governor has
proposed in his Executive Budget, all of these
things, not only are they in acquiescence of
the failures of the legislative process here,
but I actually think they will have the
reverse impact and lead to greater problems
down the road.
I do not believe that they will
facilitate a more rapid resolution of the
budget problem, they will make matters worse.
Here is the reason why, Mr. President.
Every one of the bills that calls
for a default budget or last year's budget or
the Governor's proposed budget does the
following, in practice. What it does is it
says to whichever party to the budget
discussion doesn't want to stray far from the
last budget that's been passed: You don't
have to negotiate.
Okay, what does that mean? That
means -- and the pattern of the last few
years, Mr. President, has been that the
Executive proposes a budget with a certain
dollar amount, and the Legislature seeks to,
2749
by claiming that there are going to be
additional revenues or what have you, it seeks
to increase the expenditures.
If you do any one of these bills,
which simply says that if there's no agreement
and the budget is late, you go to last year's
budget, then the Governor, in this case -- it
could be somebody else -- the Governor says:
I don't negotiate. Not interested. And what
does he get? He gets last year's budget. It
is an obstacle, this is an obstacle to reform.
Forgetting the fact, absolutely
forgetting the fact that you could wind up in
a situation where the Governor intentionally
creates a budget that he knows is
objectionable to the Legislature in his
executive proposal.
Under the Morahan bill -- I'm
sorry, under Senator Volker's bill, Calendar
785, where it's the Governor's budget
submission that is called up if the budget is
late, if the Governor really wants to be slick
about it, he can do things in that executive
proposal that he knows would never fly in the
Legislature and simply refuse to negotiate.
2750
And bang, his Executive Budget submission
becomes law.
I mean, I'm not making this up.
This is logical. If somebody wants to debate
me on this, let's -- let's do it. This is a
bad idea. These bills are really not a good
idea.
Now, I'm all for a budget reform
such that we have a more realistic picture of
the state's fiscal finances, changing the
fiscal year. By the way, let me point out one
other deficiency with almost every one of
these bills. If you rely on last year's
budget, you are, by definition, not taking
into account the latest revenue projections.
If you are relying on the
Governor's proposed Executive Budget in
January -- and what we have seen over the last
few days, Mr. President, is the most acute
example of why this is problematic. What
we've seen in the last few days is, as the
April 15th tax numbers came in, we realized,
and we were evidently -- we? Three people.
The legislative leaders were in a situation
where a budget agreement was almost reached,
2751
and then it was realized after this April
deadline that the revenues that the state had
been projecting are going to be a billion to a
billion-three less than what they were.
Think about what would happen if
you automatically had to then kick back to a
default budget or the Governor's proposed
budget. And this is not the way to go about
things. This is really, really wrong.
You want the solution? Because it
would be really wrong of me to stand up here
and just denounce every one of these bills. I
have the solution. I've spoken about it
before. This would take an act of tremendous
courage on the part of this Legislature. One
constitutional amendment, Mr. President, that
bans emergency appropriation bills. Never
have a late budget after that. I'm -- I'm not
kidding. That would do it. You would never
have a late budget after that.
Because what we have done in this
state -- and, you know, essentially we don't
need to do any of this. The voters have said
nah, we don't really care about late state
budgets. And the state has become so
2752
proficient at emergency spending bills that it
really doesn't cost the state any money.
I don't know whether you could make
the argument that our bond rating suffers as a
result, but the state doesn't really lose any
money with these late budgets. There really
is no practical difference.
The editorial boards scream at us,
they scream at us because they want to blame
us for being here and not doing our jobs.
Which I repudiate, because that's more a
problem with the legislative process.
But we have made it painless for
the taxpayers of this state to have late
budgets. So to be honest with you, none of
this is terribly essential. It really is not.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. If the Senator would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR HEVESI: Most certainly,
Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hevesi
2753
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Senator Hevesi,
do you think that we could agree among
ourselves and not need a constitutional
amendment to decide not to make any emergency
appropriations? Do you think that that would
also be an effective tool?
SENATOR HEVESI: I think if this
Legislature decided that it wanted to go that
route, it would be an act of courage. I would
be shocked if the Legislature chose to do it.
But yeah, we could go ahead and do that.
And if we did that, when whoever
really presented an obstacle, in the public's
eye, to a budget passing would be held
responsible for a state shutdown in government
analogous to the shutdown of the federal
government that was -- the responsibility for
which was largely attributed to Newt Gingrich,
and he paid the most severe price for it.
So I don't believe you would have a
situation where you would have anybody not
willing to negotiate, to hold out, to hold
out, to hold out. You'd have real
negotiations, because the political price
2754
would be too high to pay.
I don't think this Legislature has
the courage to pass laws banning emergency
appropriations, though that would have the
impact.
SENATOR DUANE: And if the
sponsor would -- I'm sorry, the Senator would
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hevesi, do you yield?
SENATOR HEVESI: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm wondering if
you would be interested or perhaps some of our
colleagues would be interested if we had a
hearing on this particular constitutional
amendment which you raised, or a voluntary
pledge, if you will, on the part of the
Legislature -- as well as on other items in
various budget bills which are coming before
us today. Do you think that our colleagues
would be interested in hearing what the public
had to say about them in a public hearing
2755
format?
SENATOR HEVESI: Well, to be
honest with you -- and it's a good question,
Senator Duane -- I think there is a real
desire to avoid public discourse on a slew of
issues up here in Albany.
And I'll point to a finance
committee meeting that we had last week where
we had the acting commissioner of the Division
of Human Rights, where we called for a hearing
because of deficiencies in the performance of
that agency -- specifically, a backlog of
cases going back years and years -- and we
asked that the nomination be tabled in
consideration of holding a public hearing
before that. And we were told essentially we
should go ahead with the nomination, we can do
public hearings after that.
We're not going to have that public
hearing, and it's why Senator Dollinger and
myself voiced our displeasure with that.
In addition, yesterday Senator
Maltese brought forth a constitutional
amendment on initiative and referenda, and I
raised the objection that under his
2756
legislation, once somebody circulates a
petition, there is no mandatory hearing
process before or after that, and so there is
no public discourse that can influence the
process after that initiative or referendum
has been drafted.
We don't, Mr. President, hold
hearings up here. I don't know why. I
suspect it is because there is an atmosphere
here where dissension is intolerable. And
that why go ahead and hold the public hearing
when you could potentially hold yourself up,
or the operation of this house, or a
particular public policy or a particular
proposal, to scrutiny that has no potential
upside for you.
I think that's why we don't,
Senator Duane, hold hearings here. And I
think it's a huge problem. If we had more
public hearings, we'd have better public
policy. That's absolutely clear.
Thank you, Mr. President. If I can
continue on the bill.
One of the things that aggrieves me
the most about the bills that we see before us
2757
today is that we see eight or nine different
bills that are in conflict with each other.
Now, the only way I would actually
excuse this, if there was a new mechanism here
to include everybody in this process where
every single senator could bring to the floor
the legislation that that senator wanted to.
Because what you have here is you have eight
or nine different legislators who have
competing proposals that conflict with each
other.
And two years ago, two years ago
Senator Padavan put in two different bills on
the calendar that had nothing to do with each
other per se but happened to amend the same
section of law, such that if both of those
bills wound up becoming law, there would have
been a true problem in how the courts
interpreted it.
And my questions to the sponsor at
that time resulted in the answer that the bill
that was first signed by the Governor would be
the one that took precedence.
And that's the type of somewhat
sloppy legislative process that we have up
2758
here that I think really doesn't do anybody a
service.
By the way, I would add that one of
the constitutional amendments, if we're
looking to amend the Constitution, is to allow
legislators, majority and minority, to be in a
position where they can bring one or two or
three or more pieces of legislation to the
floor of this house every year.
Why don't we do that? Why is there
a complete dictatorial control over the flow
of legislation? Why is that? Is that -- is
there a monopoly on common sense? Is there a
monopoly on good ideas? Is somebody going to
suggest that I can't have a good idea?
In fact, Mr. President, I think the
realization that that's not true is supported
by the fact that I can't get a bill on this
floor. Can't get a bill on this floor. You
know why? Because I think that the notion
is -- and this is true for my colleagues,
too -- we've got some good ideas, Mr.
President. And if we put those ideas to a
veto, it would be very difficult for members
of the other party to vote against it. They'd
2759
be held responsible by their constituents.
And so if we want to go and amend
the Constitution of the state, let's amend it
to allow a more free flow of legislation in
this house. Because what we have here today,
nine different bills amending the
Constitution -- all of which, if passed, would
throw into disarray what we would wind up
doing with the Constitution -- that's just bad
government. It's another form of bad
government.
Now, Senator Duane suggests that
the reason we have this is so that every
single legislator who has a bill on the
calendar today can go back to their
constituents and say "I tried to reform the
process. It's my bill, I passed my bill, the
other house wouldn't do it."
And I suggest to you that if we
want real leadership in this house, let's have
a full discussion, let's have a hearing, let's
have a conference committee with the Assembly
and all come to agreement with a certain
reform, whether it is amending the
Constitution of the state or simply amending
2760
the laws of this state, to facilitate a more
timely budget. That's the way to go about it,
Mr. President.
But for all the reasons that I
articulated earlier, most notably that these
bills, all of them -- particularly the one
we're talking about right now -- that these
bills would have a detrimental effect on the
budget process. They will lead to less timely
budgets than we already have. For those
reasons and others, I'm opposing this bill.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the
resolution?
Debate is closed.
The Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 782 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Brown, Connor,
Duane, Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi, L. Krueger,
Oppenheimer, Paterson, Schneiderman, A. Smith,
M. Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.
Ayes, 45. Nays, 15.
2761
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar 782, also Senator Montgomery in the
negative. Ayes, 44. Nays, 16.
Also Senator Sampson in the
negative. Ayes, 43. Nays, 17.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Moynihan -- Morahan. I was
waxing nostalgic.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR MORAHAN: We both have
white hair, but that's where it sends.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
I'd ask you to call up Calendar 802 at this
time.
I'm sorry. Before we do that,
could we please recognize Senator Smith, Ada
Smith.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Ada Smith.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
Mr. President. I request unanimous consent to
2762
be recorded in the negative on Calendars 694
and 782.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Ada Smith will be recorded
in the negative on Calendars 694 and 782.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Can you
recognize Senator Montgomery, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President. I would like unanimous consent to
be recorded in the negative on Calendars 694
and 782.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 694 and Calendar
782.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Recognize
Senator Brown, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Mr. President, I
2763
request unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 694.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Brown will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 694.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hassell-Thompson.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you, Mr. President. I too rise to request
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar 782 and Calendar 802.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Hassell-Thompson will be
recorded in the negative on 782.
And, Senator, Calendar 802 has been
laid aside and not voted on yet.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
can we recognize Senator Krueger.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I also
would like unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 694 and 782.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
2764
objection, Senator Krueger will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 694 and 782.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
could we please take up Calendar 802 at this
time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger, a point of clarification for the
desk. You said you wanted to change your
vote. The Secretary had you recorded in the
negative on Calendar 782. Do you wish to vote
in the negative?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
I wish to vote against 782. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay.
You will be recorded in the negative, then, on
Calendar 782.
Senator Schneiderman, why do you
rise?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Mr.
President, I would request unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
802.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: We
haven't voted on 802 yet, Senator.
2765
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Withdrawn, Your Honor.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 802.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
802, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 7, an act
to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to
changing the state fiscal year.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, just to be heard on the bill. Is
802 before the house?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, it
is.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could I be
heard on the bill, Mr. President? And I think
we'd waive the explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Wait a
second. Give me a second.
Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
I was just criticized outside, and I think the
criticism is valid. A friend of mine just
2766
said I remind him of Calvin Coolidge, and I
was very appreciative. I admired Calvin
Coolidge. He had a summer White House at Paul
Smiths, New York, up in our area.
But he said that when the president
passed on -- President Coolidge -- someone
announced that "President Coolidge has passed
on," and someone else said: "How do you
know?" He was a man of few words.
I think possibly I have not said
enough here. I would -- I have been a person
of too few words.
It was brought up by my friend and
colleague a few minutes ago -- and he's
scowling, and I don't blame him, but he's not
scowling anymore. He wanted to know why we
were bringing up these various bills, some a
bit different than others.
And I would explain that we decided
to provide a menu. You know when you have a
menu, you decide what you want from the menu
and you can then act accordingly. So we are
passing these various bills, and they will be
sent on to -- they will be sent on. And
possibly there can be choices from the menus.
2767
And then possibly we would have some good
legislation sent on to the Governor.
With that, Mr. President, the final
bill we're doing here in this group of bills,
it's a companion legislation to S6. Which is
S -- well, anyway, you all know numbers. You
know, when you get out in your district and
they mention numbers to you, you know: "Now,
S4823, we want you to really look at that."
And I say, "Yes, we will."
And -- but it's Senate 6. And that
changes the state fiscal year to May 1st. And
in the absence of an agreed-upon revenue
consensus, the bill requires the
Comptroller -- is it controller or
comptroller? Comptroller? I always thought
it was controller -- the Comptroller to
establish a revenue forecast that will be
binding on all parties and formalizes a budget
conference committee process based upon the
agreed-to or binding revenue forecast.
And to put it in our terminology,
we have help establishing our avails. That's
a word that we all use here in our work.
I would say, Mr. President, that it
2768
certainly is necessary, it certainly is
necessary that we do have legislation in this
field. And with May 1st -- now I'm winging
it. But if my counsel corrects me, then I'll
stand corrected. But May 1st certainly makes
sense because you know more of what is going
on in that year.
July 1st is I think -- or April
1st, excuse me. Isn't it amazing how all
these dates go together? But April 1st I
think is a bit early, and I think May does
make more sense.
It's interesting how you learn in
this field. Because a few years ago when
May 1st was first suggested, I didn't think
that maybe it really was that meaningful. I
think that it is, and I think it's a good
bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President,
on the bill.
This bill really is such a
commonsense bill, by extending the date,
allowing the Comptroller to weigh in with
2769
binding forecast, set up the budget
committees, as Senator Stafford so eloquently
described.
When we look at the process as it
exists today, the April 1st process, I think
we have to look at the Legislature in a
historic way of the past, when the Legislature
really began to wrap up its business in the
month of March. You could look at,
historically, in days when the budget process
was not very complex, when the Governor, when
the Executive really set out the budget in
detail and the Legislature basically went
along with the budget.
It wasn't until really the 1960s
when the Legislature developed a professional
staff, and a staff that was able to do budget
analysis, that really provided a tension point
between the Legislature and the Executive.
And at that point in time, the Legislature
itself began very, very slowly to become a
more full-time legislative body and one that
did not have to go back home in the month of
March to tend to the family business or the
family farm.
2770
And so it's really -- this
legislation is more in tune with where we
should be in the year 2002.
And so of all the bills, this one
should be embraced by both parties, both sides
of the aisle, both houses. And we should move
forward into this century, really, with a date
that better fits the Legislature and with a
process that can be embraced by all parties.
I would hope that everyone could
find their way in voting for this measure,
because I think you would be hard-pressed not
to support something that is such common sense
and really good government.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I want to thank Senator Stafford
for his explanation. And you used the phrase,
Senator Stafford, "menu." I think one of the
difficulties over here on this side of the
aisle is we can't figure out what's the steak
and what's the plate garnish in this potpourri
of potential budget reform pieces.
2771
I think Senator LaValle on this
bill, however, does properly say that this is
something that reflects where we are today and
what changes are necessary to bring our state
into the 21st century.
I'm going to vote in favor of all
these bills. I think we argued about a bunch
of them. I quibbled over some of the issues
in budget reform proposals last year. I'm now
convinced, as we head into our 18th year, that
the time for quibbling is over. Let's put
this big potpourri of plans on the table,
let's see which one -- to complete the
metaphor of menus, Senator Stafford, let's see
which ones the Assembly bite on and see
whether we can get something that we can work
through.
But I would remind everybody in
this chamber that the solution to our budget
lies right in this house. It's very, very
simple. And unfortunately, the tyranny of the
majority is what prevents us from getting
there.
There's no reason why the Majority
in this house cannot come to the Democrats on
2772
this side of the aisle, negotiate a budget
deal, get 41 votes to guarantee that budget,
present it to the Governor, along with 101
members from the State Assembly, in which the
Democratic conference there would come up with
a budget favored by their Republican
colleagues, and the second any Governor puts a
veto pen on that bill, this Legislature says
to him: "Fine, Mr. Governor, you are now
irrelevant. We are going to set the spending
chart for this state."
He gets a chance to give us the
budget. Let's work together. But no, no,
there's an unwritten rule somewhere in the
State Constitution -- I've never been able to
find it. Maybe it's in statute. I can't find
it. Maybe it's in the Senate rules. But what
it say is the Majority of this house will not
work with their Democratic colleagues to set a
reasonable spending plan for the people of
this state.
You want that power all to yourself
and your 36 votes? Take it. But the reason
why this budget is late is because the tyranny
of both houses prevents them from working with
2773
their colleagues to form veto-proof majorities
to take over the spending priorities in this
state.
I have confidence that 41 people in
this chamber can do a budget that will serve
the interests of the people of this state.
And the day that we in this chamber decide
we're going to do it and our colleagues across
the hall decide that they're going to do it,
we don't need three men in a room. We can
have 211 people in two rooms that will decide
the future of this state in its spending. We
can cut the Governor out of the equation.
He's already got way too much power in this
process.
My suggestion is, you want a
solution to the budget delay? You want budget
reform? Let's work together to get 41 votes.
We can put together a coalition that will be
bipartisan, that will reflect the needs of
education, that will reflect the needs of
health care, that will provide for the people
of this state. Send it to the second floor
and say: Go ahead, use as much ink as you
want, I don't care what you veto, you will not
2774
put it into law because we will override you.
The day we recognize that the
tyranny of the Majority in this house is not
enough to solve the problems of the people of
this state is the day we will have an on-time
budget. We'll deliver it to him on the 20th
of March. The day he puts his pen to it,
we'll overturn those vetoes. We will set the
chart for the future of spending in this
state.
That's the way to do it, Mr.
President. The power rests with
coalition-building between the parties, not
the absolute tyranny of one party in one
house.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This
act shall take effect upon the effective date
of the amendments to the Constitution.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
2775
the negative on Calendar Number 802 are
Senators Brown, Dollinger, Duane, and
Paterson.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I believe I
should be recorded in the affirmative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Hold on
one second.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will
make up for that.
(Laughter.)
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 802, those recorded in the
negative are Senators Duane, Paterson, and
Schneiderman. Ayes, 57. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Onorato, why do you rise?
SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President,
may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 782, Bill Number S6.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Onorato will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 782.
Senator Brown, why do you rise?
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Mr.
2776
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
221.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Brown will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 221.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. Can we return to the reading of
the controversial calendar, starting with 689.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 689.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
689, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3000A, an
act to amend the General Business Law and the
Civil Practice Law and Rules, in relation to
the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, Senator Paterson has requested an
explanation of Calendar 689.
2777
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I was almost disappointed, Senator
Dollinger.
This is the third year now that
we've had this bill in the Senate. This is
the bill to enact the Uniform Trade Secrets
Act in order to provide improved trade-secret
protection for industry in New York State.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly
on the bill, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I've voted
against this bill in the past, and I'm going
to vote against it in the future. I think
Senator Alesi and I have had a colloquy about
the bill and what it does and why I've been
opposed to it.
I continue to believe that the
effect of this bill will be to stifle a lot of
the entrepreneurial activity that oftentimes
happens with inventors, engineers, and others
2778
who work on projects for a company and then
are later slapped with a trade secret. It can
easily prevent the kind of synergy that occurs
between people working for different
employers.
I understand the need to protect
true trade secrets. But at least in my
experience as a lawyer, that label has been
slapped willy-nilly on things that don't
qualify. And quite frankly, I'm concerned
that this bill could actually inhibit rather
than encourage economic activity in the state.
We've discussed it before, I've
made this point before, but I'm going to vote
against this bill. I just think it's too
broad and would lead to abuses.
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: On the bill.
With respect to my colleague's
voice of opposition, I think that I view it to
the contrary. And that is that 41 other
states and the District of Columbia have
unified their Trade Secrets Act.
2779
And because New York State has not,
New York State business, especially its
high-tech business, is in jeopardy of seeing
some of those high-tech businesses which rely
on trade secrets during their developmental
stages, seeing some of those businesses either
not locate here, not expand here, or leave
New York State altogether.
So I think that in view of the fact
that nearly every other state in the union has
a Uniform Trade Secrets Act, that it would
make sense for New York State, if for other
reason than the reasons I just gave, to join.
So I would urge my colleagues to
vote yes on this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect 180 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
2780
the negative on Calendar Number 689 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger,
Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Schneiderman,
M. Smith, and Stavisky. Ayes, 47. Nays, 13.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. May we go to Calendar 803, please,
by Senator Stafford.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 803.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
803, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1585A,
an act to amend the State Finance Law and the
Legislative Law, in relation to legislative
action on the budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
2781
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I understand that there's a message
of necessity for this bill. But I just am
very concerned that we're getting a little bit
sloppy with our messages of necessity. I
don't really see -- you know, sometimes there
doesn't really seem to be that kind of a
necessity, a message of necessity. And the
definition of necessity is like you gotta do
it. Which I don't see is the case.
So I just think we need to be more
careful about when it is that these pieces of
legislation are passed with a message of
necessity. And I'm going to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the negative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
Nays -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Could I
ask the nos to raise your hand again. We've
got people going off in multiple directions.
2782
So one more time, the vote is on
Calendar 803. May I ask members who are
voting no to raise their hands, please.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 803 are
Senators Duane and Schneiderman. Ayes, 58.
Nays, 2.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. May we go to Calendar 783 at this
time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 783.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
783, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 535A,
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing an amendment to Section 4
of Article 7 of the Constitution.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On the
resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, to explain his vote.
2783
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. You know, I just -- I think, you
know, we're getting a little punchy. It's
6:00 o'clock now. But, I mean, it just shows
the futility of us passing bills on something
that we could just do, you know, on our own.
I'm certainly not for making the
Governor's budget law. So I'm going to vote
against this. But I mean, it's such a mix and
match combination of bills. And I mean, you
know, just the absurdity of us going through
this whole exercise of looking at these bills
individually when, you know, some of them, as
I say, are at odds with each other.
I'm going to vote no on this
because I just think if we really were serious
about this we would bring in the public and
the good government groups and find out how to
do a real budget. So I'm going to vote no,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the negative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 783 are
2784
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery, Onorato,
Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Schneiderman,
A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski, Stavisky, and
Senator Brown. Also Senator L. Krueger. Also
Senator Hevesi. Ayes, 42. Nays, 18.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Schneiderman, why do you
rise?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Mr.
President. I would request unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
694, Senate 6623A.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Schneiderman will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 694.
Senator Brown, why do you rise?
SENATOR BROWN: Mr. President, I
request unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 689, Senate Print
3000A.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Brown will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 689.
2785
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, can we go
to Calendar 790, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar -- I'm sorry,
Senator Morahan, what calendar number?
SENATOR MORAHAN: 790.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 790.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
790, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6181,
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Section 13,
14 and 16 of Article 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On the
resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Especially
because this bill, compared to the others,
really is not promoting an agenda and just
theoretically, if there was no budget
agreement, would provide the same services
with an assessment of what would be the
2786
inflationary rate and some other issues that
would need to be added on -- perhaps cost of
living for employees and that type of thing.
I want to vote for this bill, and
I'm especially delighted that Senator Morahan
is here to see me do it.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you for
the explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Paterson will be recorded in the affirmative.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 790 are
Senators Breslin, Connor, Duane, Hevesi,
Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,
Schneiderman, Stachowski, and Stavisky. Also
Senator L. Krueger.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
President -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Just a
minute. We're on the roll call.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays,
11.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
2787
resolution is adopted.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: You had me
wrong. I'm voting in favor of this.
This is the Morahan bill, is it
not? So I'll be in favor. It's sponsored by
Sandy Galef in the Assembly -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
right, Senator, we have your vote.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 790 are
Senators Breslin, Connor, Duane, Hevesi,
L. Krueger, Montgomery, Onorato, Schneiderman,
Stachowski, and Stavisky.
Ayes, 50. Nays, 10.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Could the chair ask members, as
we're going through the calendar, particularly
when sometimes the order of business requires
that we take bills out of order, to try to
keep track of what calendar number we're on.
We have members who are voting on
bills and then rising later asking to be
recorded, having already voted. It makes it
very difficult for the Secretary to keep a
2788
clear record.
So we please ask members'
cooperation as we go through the calendar.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Well, then, I
would ask the Secretary to stay -- start with
Senate 784 and continue in order.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will continue to read in regular
order.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
784, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 834,
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Section 13,
14, and 16 of Article 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On the
resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski, to explain his vote.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Amid all
this confusion, I just thought I'd make a
quick explanation.
Earlier I had said I was going to
vote for that one we just voted no on,
2789
concurrent services, because I thought, well,
since it's a menu -- and I'm going back to
Senator Stafford's comments that all of this
is a menu.
Unfortunately, if it was a menu
from an Italian restaurant, I would probably
vote for all of them. He chose to put a menu
from an Indian restaurant on the calendar, and
I don't really like Indian food, so -- it
doesn't agree with me. I've got to vote no on
it.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski will be recorded in the negative.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 784 are
Senators Breslin, Brown, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi, L. Krueger,
Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson,
Sampson, Schneiderman, Stachowski, and
Stavisky. Ayes, 45. Nays, 15.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
2790
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
785, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2817,
concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing an amendment to Sections 2,
3, and 4 of Article 7.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On the
resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 785 are
Senators Breslin, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi, L. Krueger,
Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Sampson,
Stachowski, and Stavisky.
Ayes, 48. Nays, 12.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
788, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
3339, concurrent resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Section 13,
14, and 16 of Article 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On the
2791
resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: We've gone
through many budget reform bills here today,
and some are better than the others. But the
fact of the matter is something has to happen.
There has to be a bill, a law that makes us
get done when we're supposed to get done so
there's a penalty.
There's been some comment that all
we have to do, for example, is get together
with the Assembly, send up a veto-proof bill.
But what happens if we don't reach agreement
with the Assembly?
There's been other suggestions as
to how we can truly do what we're supposed to
be on April 1. But as long as there's not a
penalty, a penalty even that people don't
want, we're never going to get budgets on
time.
The penalty here is simply go to
last year's budget. I don't want to go to
last year's budget, nor does anyone else here.
2792
Some want tax cuts, some want more programs,
some want something else. But the fact of the
matter is the fact that it hurts and nobody
wants it is what we really need in order to
get us to pass a budget in a timely fashion.
So hopefully the Assembly will take
one or more of these bills, the ones they
like, so we can finally stop this embarrassing
process that is so destructive to the other
legislative work we do here in Albany.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
DeFrancisco will be recorded in the
affirmative.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 788 are
Senators Breslin, Brown, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, Hevesi, L. Krueger,
Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Sampson,
Schneiderman, Stachowski, and Stavisky.
Ayes, 46. Nays, 14.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Oppenheimer, why do you
rise?
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would
2793
like to be recorded in the negative, with
unanimous consent, for Calendar 785, S2817.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Oppenheimer will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 785.
Senator Liz Krueger, why do you
rise?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I rise to
explain my vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
we've completed the roll call.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger, with unanimous consent, without
objection, you can explain your vote on the
previous legislation.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
very much.
I had waited, I had thought I had
timed myself to the end of this series of
bills to explain the fact that I've voted no
now on seven constitutional amendments, and
three related companion bills I voted yes on.
I think it relates to yesterday's
2794
discussion where I found myself voting with
many of my colleagues on the Republican side
in support of initiative and referendum, in
the belief that a motivator to get this
Legislature to do our job was to broaden the
universe and allow the public to take our role
away from us by having the opportunity,
through I&R, to make the decisions through
votes.
Today I voted against
constitutional amendments which also would
have given opportunities to the voters to make
decisions for themselves because, frankly, my
own confusion over my timing of when I could
stand up and speak on the bill I think would
easily be the beginning of the tip of the
iceberg if we were to imagine bringing this
menu that's been associated as an Italian
restaurant menu, or an Indian restaurant menu,
but more likely is the traditional Chinese
restaurant menu of X from Column A and Y from
Column B.
This is no way to do government.
And I think all of us know that. And I don't
accept the argument that was made here today
2795
that we need laws changed in order for us to
do our jobs on the budget. These bills are
complementary to each other, are redundant
with each other and in direct conflict with
each other.
And yet my understanding is we
could be doing all of these things, absent
constitutional amendment, to move a budget
forward, to explain to voters why we are
making the decisions we are making, and to get
a budget done on time.
Frankly, I've been here for nine
weeks, we are late in our budget again, and I
am waiting to have one chance to actually
debate the budget on the floor of the Senate.
As far as I know, we don't even explore
discussion of the budget, but we'll spend
several hours this afternoon voting for or
against constitutional amendments that we know
will never go anywhere that are in direct
conflict with each other or redundant with
each other, to yet again avoid doing the
business of the people, which is what we
should have been doing all these weeks,
debating the budget.
2796
So I thank you very much for the
opportunity to explain my vote, to explain my
confusion on some of the bills today, and to
argue that in fact if we are confused about
what we are doing today and are failing to do
our jobs, imagine the public's confusion when
we try to go and explain all of this to them.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. Would you recognize Senator
Andrews at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Andrews.
SENATOR ANDREWS: Yes, Mr.
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 784, 785,
and 788.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Andrews will be recorded in
the negative on Calendars 784, 785, and 788.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President. Will you return to reports of
2797
standing committees, and I ask that those
reports be read.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports
of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell,
from the Committee on Civil Service and
Pensions, reports:
Senate Print 1236A, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the Retirement and
Social Security Law;
1355A, by Senator Farley, an act in
relation to allowing;
1420, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
2490A, by Senator Farley, an act
granting;
3380A, by Senator Rath, an act to
authorize;
3649A, by Senator Rath, an act to
allow;
3681A, by Senator Alesi, an act in
relation;
3817, by Senator LaValle, an act
authorizing;
2798
4949A, by Senator Volker, an act in
relation;
6173, by Senator Farley, an act to
authorize;
6240, by Senator Volker, an act in
relation;
6355, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend;
6289, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Administrative Code of the City of
New York;
6402, by Senator Rath, an act to
cancel;
6430, by Senator Rath, an act to
allow;
6497, by Senator Larkin, an act to
provide;
6603, by Senator Balboni, an act
authorizing;
6998, by Senator Spano, an act to
authorize;
7035, by Senator Spano, an act to
grant;
7075, by Senator Larkin, an act to
authorize;
2799
7178, by Senator Alesi, an act to
allow;
7213, by Senator Leibell, an act
permitting;
7214, by Senator Leibell, an act
allowing;
And Senate Print 7267, by Senator
Morahan, an act to amend.
Senator Espada, from the Committee
on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, reports:
Senate Print 377, by Senator
DeFrancisco, an act to amend the Navigation
Law;
1367, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
1401, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
1769A, by Senator McGee, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
And 6711, by Senator Espada, an act
to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
Senator Rath, from the Committee on
Local Government, reports:
Senate Print 1038, by Senator
Larkin, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
2800
Law;
2161, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
3088C, by Senator Leibell, an act
to amend Chapter 443 of the laws of 1985;
3819, by Senator Rath, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
3820, by Senator Stafford, an act
in relation;
4113, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend;
4510A, by Senator Hannon, an act in
relation;
5787, by Senator Wright, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
6171, by Senator Balboni, an act to
authorize;
6201, by Senator Bonacic, an act
making certain findings;
6271, by Senator Velella, an act
authorizing;
6365, by Senator Balboni, an act in
relation;
6382, by Senator Skelos, an act
authorizing;
2801
6383, by Senator Skelos, an act
authorizing;
6386, by Senator Skelos, an act
authorizing;
6416, by Senator Trunzo, an act
authorizing;
6531A, by Senator Bruno, an act to
authorize;
6586, by Senator Volker, an act in
relation to legalizing;
6587A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6721, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
convey;
6733, by Senator LaValle, an act in
relation;
6764, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
And 7284, by Senator Libous, an act
to amend the County Law.
Senator Volker, from the Committee
on Codes, reports:
Senate Print 136A, by Senator
Volker, an act to amend the Penal Law;
437, by Senator DeFrancisco, an act
2802
to amend the Penal Law;
1130A, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
1138, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
1173, by Senator Onorato, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
1227, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
1478, by Senator Paterson, an act
to amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
2279, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
2302, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
2782, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
3124, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
3279, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
3746, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
3937, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
2803
4048, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
6105A, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
6248, with amendments, by Senator
DeFrancisco, an act to amend the Penal Law;
6456, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the Penal Law;
6658, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.
And 6705, with amendments, by
Senator LaValle, an act to amend the Penal
Law.
Senator Trunzo, from the Committee
on Transportation, reports:
Senate Print 762, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the Vehicle and
Traffic Law;
878, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
1766B, by Senator LaValle, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
2373A, by Senator Bruno, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
2836A, by Senator Marcellino, an
2804
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
5644, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6083A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6182B, by Senator Morahan, an act
to amend the Transportation Law;
6389, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
6399A, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
6652, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6814, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6815, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Railroad Law;
6816, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Railroad Law;
6852, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
7011, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
7012, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
2805
7029, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
7076, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
7195, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
to amend the Highway Law;
7280, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Canal Law;
And Senate Print 7312, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the Vehicle and
Traffic Law.
Senator Kuhl, from the Committee on
Education, reports:
Senate Print 5318A, by Senator
Padavan, an act in relation to establishing;
6831, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Education Law;
6940, by Senator Meier, an act
relating to adjusting;
6942, by Senator Meier, an act to
adjust;
7000, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend Chapter 698 of the Laws of 1996;
And 7080, by Senator Hannon, an act
to amend Chapter 403 of the Laws of 1977.
2806
Senator Saland, from the Committee
on Children and Families, reports:
Senate Print 396B, by Senator
Saland, an act to amend the Social Services
Law;
2777A, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend the Social Services Law;
3430A, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the Family Court Act;
7124, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend Chapter 505 of the Laws of 1985;
7126, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the Domestic Relations Law;
And 7172, by Senator DeFrancisco,
an act to amend the Executive Law.
Senator DeFrancisco, from the
Committee on Tourism, Recreation and Sports
Development, reports:
Senate Print 2312A, by Senator
Kuhl, an act to amend the Parks, Recreation
and Historic Preservation Law;
And 6947, by Senator Marcellino, an
act to amend the Navigation Law.
Senator Nozzolio, from the
Committee on Crime Victims, Crime and
2807
Correction, reports:
1301A, by Senator Meier, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
3703, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
to amend the Executive Law;
3775, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
to amend the Executive Law;
4376, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the Correct Law;
4524, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
to amend the Executive Law;
6189, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Correction Law;
6770, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
to amend the Correction Law;
And 7240, by Senator Spano, an act
to amend the Executive Law.
Senator Meier, from the Committee
on Social Services, reports:
Senate Print 4704, by Senator
Maziarz, an act to amend the Social Services
Law;
6571, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Social Services Law;
6875, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
2808
amend;
7100, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend;
And 7137, by Senator Meier, an act
to amend the Welfare Reform Act of 1997.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, all bills directly to third
reading.
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Mr.
President, is there any housekeeping at the
desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No,
there is not.
SENATOR MORAHAN: I'd like to
announce a conference of the Majority at 9:45
tomorrow morning -- tomorrow being Wednesday,
May 1st -- in the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Conference of the Majority tomorrow morning at
9:45.
SENATOR MORAHAN: There being no
further business before the house, or the
2809
Senate, I would make a move to adjourn.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Wednesday, May 1st, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 6:30 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)