Regular Session - May 1, 2002
2810
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 1, 2002
11:03 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR MICHAEL A.L. BALBONI, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
2811
P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
Senate will please come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
stand and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with
me.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: In the
absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Reading of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Tuesday, April 30, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Monday, April 29,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Without objection, the Journal stands approved
as read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
2812
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President. Amendments are offered to the
following Third Reading Calendar bills:
Sponsored by Senator Velella,
page number 29, Calendar Number 597, Senate
Print Number 5706;
Senator Maziarz, page number 48,
Calendar Number 829, Senate Print Number 6721;
Senator LaValle, page number 48,
Calendar Number 830, Senate Print Number 6733;
Senator Nozzolio, page number 50,
Calendar Number 852, Senate Print Number 7195;
Senator Volker, page number 51,
Calendar Number 869, Senate Print Number 4048;
Senator Spano, page number 52,
Calendar Number 870, Senate Print Number
6105A;
Senator Meier, page number 55,
Calendar Number 899, Senate Print Number 7137.
2813
I now move that these bills retain
their place on the order of Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Fuschillo, the amendments are received
and adopted, and all the bills will retain
their place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Substitutions.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Are there any
substitutions at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: In
fact there are, Senator.
SENATOR SKELOS: I ask that they
be made at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
Secretary will read.
SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
THE SECRETARY: On page 46,
Senator Hannon moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Local Government, Assembly Bill
Number 3538B and substitute it for the
identical Senate Bill Number 4510A, Third
2814
Reading Calendar 816.
On page 49, Senator LaValle moves
to discharge, from the Committee on
Transportation, Assembly Bill Number 2786B and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 1766B, Third Reading Calendar 835.
On page 49, Senator Trunzo moves to
discharge, from the Committee on
Transportation, Assembly Bill Number 8853A and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 5644, Third Reading Calendar 838.
On page 52, Senator Padavan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Education,
Assembly Bill Number 7580C and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 5318A,
Third Reading Calendar 875.
And on page 54, Senator Maziarz
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
Social Services, Assembly Bill Number 10017
and substitute it for the identical Senate
Bill Number 6875, Third Reading Calendar 897.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
substitutions are so ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2815
there's a privileged resolution at the desk by
Senator Espada. May we have the title read
and move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Espada, Legislative Resolution Number 5267,
commemorating the celebration of Cinco de
Mayo, May 5, 2002.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Opposed, nay.
(Response of "Nay.")
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Higher Education
Committee in the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Higher
Education Committee in the Majority Conference
2816
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go
to the noncontroversial reading of the
calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
167, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 4885,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to leaving the scene of injury.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect 120 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
176, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 4881, an
act to amend the County Law, in relation to
2817
investigation.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
275, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5094B, an
act to amend Chapter 912 of the Laws of 1920.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 27. This
act shall take effect on the 30th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2818
360, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 11114, an act to amend
the Public Health Law, in relation to
designating.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
408, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4657, an
act to repeal certain provisions of the
General Business Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
2819
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
430, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5388, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crime of stalking.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
521, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 2392, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
the statewide computerized registry.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2820
act shall take effect on the 30th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
603, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 436,
an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
relation to the collection.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
715, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6387, an
act authorizing the assessor of the County of
Nassau.
2821
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
725, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7101, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
increasing.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
2822
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
732, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6068, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to exempting.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Lay
that bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
749, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6716, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
notifying school districts.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
755, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 421, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in
2823
relation to parents or other persons.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
756, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1368, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
the Family Court Act, in relation to the
visitation rights of great-grandparents.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Lay
that bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
761, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 7203, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
2824
others, in relation to altering the phrase
"natural parent."
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
770, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2121, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
optional retirement programs.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
2825
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
854, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7312, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to World Trade Center distinctive
plates.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go
to the controversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
732, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6068, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
2826
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
Mr. President.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Lay
that bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
756, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1368, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
the Family Court Act, in relation to the
visitation rights of great-grandparents.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
we'll lay that aside temporarily. I believe
Senator LaValle is conducting a Higher
Education Committee meeting.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill will be laid aside temporarily.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could stand at ease pending the report
of the Higher Education Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
house will stand at ease pending the report of
the Higher Education Committee.
(Whereupon, the Senate stood at
2827
ease at 11:15 a.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
at 11:17 a.m.)
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could
return to reports of standing committees, I
believe there's a report of the Higher
Education Committee at the desk. I ask that
it be read.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle,
from the Committee on Higher Education,
reports:
Senate Print 1042, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law;
1210A -
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: May I
interrupt for a second.
Can we please have some order in
the chamber. This is an important report.
Thank you very much.
2828
THE SECRETARY: Senate Print
1210A, by Senator LaValle, an act to amend the
Education Law;
1373, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
1778, by Senator Libous, an act to
amend the Education Law;
2352, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
2353, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
And Senate Print 7310, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept
the report of the Higher Education Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Without objection, the report is accepted.
SENATOR SKELOS: I take that
back. You don't have to accept the report.
If we could take up Calendar Number
756, by Senator LaValle, at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
Secretary will read.
2829
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
756, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1368, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
the Family Court Act.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator LaValle, an explanation has been
requested.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Senator Paterson, last year we
debated this bill. The bill is very, very
straightforward. It adds to grandparents the
great-grandparents having visitation rights,
and it would allow them to bring a
proceeding -- that is, great-grandparents -
in order to secure visitation rights to their
great-grandchildren.
In last year's debate, one of the
questions over the special proceeding, it
simply allows them to bring a proceeding but
obviously does not guarantee a result. That
is for the court to determine whether that
particular great-grandparent should have
visitation rights.
2830
As we all know, today
great-grandparents are younger than they were
in preceding generations, as are grandparents
younger and more active in their
grandchildren's or great-grandchildren's
upbringing.
It can simply be a good bonding
relationship. But in some cases it goes
beyond that. Where the children have had some
sort of marital discord, grandparents and
great-grandparents are being called into duty
to provide support. And, in some cases, the
grandchildren or great-grandchildren actually
live with the grandparents or the
great-grandparents.
So this bill simply -- and it comes
out of situations where great-grandparents
were left on the side without any ability, any
ability to plead a case on visitation. This
bill gives them that ability to go to court,
plead a case as to whether they will have the
opportunity to be able to have visitation with
their great-grandchildren.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson, I assume that explanation is
2831
satisfactory.
SENATOR PATERSON: It was very
satisfactory.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Terrific. Thank you.
SENATOR PATERSON: But it just
leads to a question, if Senator LaValle will
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator LaValle, will you yield to a question?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, I would be
honored to answer your question.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Please
proceed.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
I don't know if you're aware that this is a
confrontation between two former high school
classmates. So let's begin.
Senator LaValle, is there any
conflict, in your opinion, with Supreme Court
rulings that have kind of suggested -
although the state seems split on their
interpretation of the ruling -- that seem
split on to what extent you would want to
contravene the power of the parent that is
2832
raising the child to grant visitation?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, first
of all, I thank you for acknowledging that you
and I attended a great high school in
Hempstead, Hempstead High School. You had
erred at one prior time and omitted that in
some discussion here, and I brought that to
your attention.
However, the most important thing,
as you know, when it comes to the courts and
children, whether it is between parents or a
grandparent, is that the best interests of the
child is the paramount consideration that the
court considers. We do not disturb that in
any way, Senator.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if Senator LaValle would continue to yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator LaValle, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Please
proceed.
SENATOR PATERSON: So because of
the fact that you mentioned, that grandparents
2833
are younger these days, and also the fact that
people are older these days -- for instance,
there were 20,000 people in this country in
the year 1990 who were 100 years of age, and
that number has now doubled. There are now
over 40,000 people in this country over 100
years of age. So there would be a lot more
great-grandparents.
So you're just extending the same
opportunity that the grandparents have to the
great-grandparents.
SENATOR LAVALLE: That is
absolutely correct, Senator.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if Senator LaValle would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator LaValle, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, I will.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Please
proceed, Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: You see, based
on that, I think I can vote for the bill,
Senator.
But my problem relates to adding on
to a situation that perhaps is already out of
2834
hand. Because I think if there is an
equitable interest, if there was some
relationship between the child and the
grandparents or the great-grandparents at the
time, maybe that the child lost one of their
parents or there was a divorce or something
like that, I think that would be somewhat
compelling.
But now, with great-grandparents
involved, you have perhaps eight, and if you
throw in any of the grandparents, you have
over ten people that have an action in court,
which I think could be distressing to the
parent that's trying to raise the child.
And so since all Family Court
issues' credo is that we act on the best
interests of the child, I'm just asking you if
we aren't muddying the waters and we don't
even know whether or not our higher courts
have -- their dicta approves of this type of
situation where we're granting almost a
requirement, we are giving action to a large
group of people now that there may not be any
real evidence that there needs to be a
relationship if there hasn't been one before.
2835
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, first,
I just want to repeat that we are giving to
the great-grandparent an opportunity, because
the language here says "may," the grandparent
may bring a proceeding.
In most cases I would think that
the situation that the great-grandparent is
stepping forward is because there is some
discord and the child is left out of a
relationship with a great-grandparent that
they had.
And this has come to attention -
you know, happens all the time, particularly
with grandparents, where the couple break -
one of the couples may die, and the couple was
separated or divorced. All of a sudden, one
of the spouses that had never truly been
involved in the relationship with the child
comes forward and exercises their parental
rights and says, "I am going to take this
child." The child now is taken away from any
relationship with the grandparent, or it can
be a great-grandparent.
So I don't think that we're talking
about situations that involve a cavalier
2836
relationship between parties. I think usually
this happens when there is some act in the
family -- a death, usually. And that has
been -- and I think every member here has had
that, where people have come to our offices
and asked for some sort of guidance or help.
Unless we change the law, and we
usually tell people this, there is no language
in the law that allows you to go into court to
plead your case. Grandparents currently have
this right; great-grandparents do not.
So I don't know if that allays some
of your concerns. Obviously, we can only go
by some of the experiences that we have, and
those experiences show us that something
severe happened within the family structure to
trigger a grandparent or a great-grandparent
moving forward for visitation rights. That's
all we're talking about.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: On the
bill.
2837
SENATOR PATERSON: When this bill
first came into this chamber, which I believe
was actually -- the first time was two years
ago, I was a little surprised that it would be
as much of an issue.
And then Senator Ada Smith
introduced me to these little girls, during
the Black and Puerto Rican Legislative Caucus
weekend. They were three years old, they were
lovely, they were twins. And they were with
what I thought were their grandparents. I
later found out that those were actually their
great-grandparents and that they were
actually, in this particular case, the
custodians of these children.
So Senator LaValle's point is very
well taken. This is something that is more
frequent than you would think in this day and
age.
And I'll vote for the bill on the
basis of whatever we're doing now regarding
the grandparents should be extended to the
great-grandparents.
But I would just like to leave this
admonition, that courts are starting to take
2838
judicial notice of situations involving a
parent who is having difficulty not only
obfuscating the barriers of raising a child as
sometimes a single parent or a parent that's
remarried, where the biological parent of the
child is deceased, or after a divorce, and the
other family members have at times, even
unwittingly, just been -- created a difficulty
for that parent.
I guess whatever that final
resolution is to a Supreme Court case that
seemed to overturn the law in the state of
Washington, and whether or not our legislation
right now is unconstitutional, is something to
be resolved at a different time and on a
different issue. So perhaps I'm putting the
cart before the horse. But if it's ever
resolved, I would think that the
great-grandparents should also be included.
But I just want to make it clear
that there is a concern that is being
litigated all around this country right now
about how far the surviving parent is raising
the child has to go to accommodate the wishes
of the relatives.
2839
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Thank
you, Senator Paterson.
Senator Duane, do you wish to be
heard on this bill?
SENATOR DUANE: Perhaps, but what
I first -
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Will
you get back to us later?
SENATOR DUANE: No, I would like
to ask the sponsor if he would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator LaValle, will you please yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
SENATOR PATERSON: The Senator
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I'm sort of coming at this from a
different angle than my colleague Senator
Paterson and, previously, Senator Montgomery.
I'm just going to preface my question with
what my overriding concern is so that the
sponsor might be able to address it.
I'm concerned that a
great-grandparent being able to start a
proceeding could be used as a harassment tool
2840
against -- could be used as a harassment tool
against the parents. And I'm wondering if
there's a limitation on the number of
proceedings that could be brought.
In other words, if a Family Court
says no the first time, can the
great-grandparents go back for more?
SENATOR LAVALLE: My belief would
be, Senator, that the great-grandparent, in
order to come before the court again, would
have to have some new evidence, some new
material that they did not have in their first
petition.
So that if we limited it, there
could be a situation where the first petition
did not include certain information, because
the test here is the best interest of the
child.
An attorney would look at, for the
petitioner in that particular court, some of
the decisions that the judge made and the
standards that they used in determining what
the best interest of the child is. That
attorney may have unwittingly left out, in
that petition, some key pieces and realized
2841
that, when they got a negative decision from
the court for their petitioner, that they
probably needed to go back and put in those
key things.
But unless you had something like
that, it's unlikely that you would move
forward again to the court without -- because
once the court makes the decision, it's really
not going to change it unless you bring new
information to their attention.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Excuse
me, Senator Duane, if you would just suffer an
interruption for a moment, please.
Senator Skelos, why do you rise?
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Banks Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Thank
you very much, Senator Skelos. There will be
an immediate meeting of the Banks Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
2842
Thank you very much, Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I understand and appreciate that
response. However, I just also want to
clarify, does the sponsor have faith that the
Family Court would -- what I'm concerned about
in that case is that the great-grandparents
might intentionally leave something out so
that they could go back.
SENATOR LAVALLE: No, I -
Senator, it is an attorney's obligation to
zealously represent their client. They are
bound, and they're not going to do it
intentionally.
Family Courts are jammed. Their
dockets are very, very crowded. It's a very
busy court. An attorney representing the
petitioner is not going to chance having a
judge kind of dress them down by saying "Why
are you wasting my time?" So that they would
present, on that first petition, their best
case.
I gave you something that would
happen in a rare instance, in a rare instance,
that upon reflection the attorney says: You
2843
know, I should have put those two things in my
petition in meeting that best interest
standard.
It probably -- it's a rare instance
that that would happen. The court is too
jammed up to just go back and do things in
repetition. You get it right the first time
or, you know, you're left out.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
And through you, Mr. President, if
the sponsor would yield for another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: You
had me in suspense there. I didn't know what
you were going to ask. Thank you.
Senator LaValle, do you continue to
yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Thank
you.
SENATOR DUANE: And because I'm
not familiar with this specific part of family
law, in a case where there has been some kind
of event which would lead the
great-grandparents -- or the grandparents, for
that matter -- to want to bring a proceeding,
2844
would not knowledge of that, whatever event
that is, on the part of the grandparents or
great-grandparents immediately trigger child
welfare authorities to also look into what's
happening?
SENATOR LAVALLE: I don't know
the answer to your question. I don't know the
answer.
SENATOR DUANE: Okay. And if the
sponsor would continue to yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, Mr.
President, I'll yield.
SENATOR DUANE: And the reason I
asked my previous question was that would
then -- and the sponsor may know the answer to
this question -- if ACS does have to go in,
then does it not become their job to
investigate whether or not the grandparents or
the great-grandparents would be appropriate to
have visitation and therefore decide in the
best interests of the child to have them visit
would be a good thing?
In other words, by bringing in -
how is ACS brought in and would they not
involve the great-grandparents and the
2845
grandparents?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Well, as you
could imagine, the person who is petitioning
is going to the court and asking the court in
the best interests of the child, we believe we
should have visitation rights.
If one or both parents, because
there has been some sort of discord, they will
challenge that petition. They will say: We
believe that the great-grandparent is too old,
not capable of even in a short visitation
dealing with this.
There could be, maybe, abuse. Just
taking this to an extreme, there could be
maybe abuse issues. There could be lots of
things that the parents who want to challenge
the petition would bring forward. Go to
county agencies, wherever they could, whatever
leverage they have to block that petition.
So there are a variety of things
that could be called into play. But the
petitioner is not going to do it, because
they're trying to put forth their best case.
SENATOR DUANE: And if the
sponsor would yield for one final question.
2846
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator LaValle, do you yield to one final
question?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Please
proceed, Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: If grandparents
brought forward -- tried to start a proceeding
and they were rebuffed, could they then set up
or could then -- could they, you know, set up
or independently the great-grandparents come
forward and bring a proceeding?
And the reason I ask that, then, is
then could there not be, you know, a sort of
an unspoken conspiracy to harass the parents
when one method fails, then to go on? Because
there would be potentially two sets of
great-grandparents, two sets of grandparents,
and they could each -- you could potentially
have four unsuccessful proceedings against a
family.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, the
answer really goes back to the best interest
of the child. Regardless of what we talk
about, whether it's a custody issue between
2847
two parents, visitation rights, visitation
rights for grandparents, the paramount test is
what's best for this child.
The court does not want to put the
child in an environment that is going to be
aberrant from the one that they live in, not
going to put them in harm's way. Regardless
of what the adults want, the court's there to
protect the child. That's why this
best-interest test is a sacrosanct test in the
court, because that's their job. And the
petitioner and other people have to show the
court why they are right in trying to support
that child in some sort of way.
That's the court's duty,
responsibility. That's why this test is
there. And it's in every bill that we deal
with children.
So I think it's -- you know, both
in Family Court and in Supreme, when we're
dealing with these matters, it's a very, very
difficult, it's an emotional -- if it's in
Supreme, it's in a section of Supreme that is
a very emotional one, very tense. In Family
Court, a lot of emotion.
2848
And people -- you know, if you
haven't been in a Family Court, you should
just go there and just sit in and see the
emotion. See the emotion.
And the court, just to go back, is
not going to do anything regardless of the
flailing around of the adults. They are only
interested in one thing, what is in the best
interests of that child.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
Mr. President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Both with the
legislation dealing with grandparent
visitation, as well as this legislation with
great-grandparent visitation and their ability
to start a proceeding, it's an issue which I
have given a lot of thought to.
And I agree with and support the
notion that extended family is very good and,
in most cases, the presence of extended family
is in the best interests of the child.
And I understand my Minority
colleagues' concern that this bill continues
2849
to not make it easy enough for them to get
visitation. And while I agree with that, I
also have concerns that these kinds of
proceedings could be used as a harassment tool
towards parents.
And the sponsor, you know, very
carefully and appropriately and eloquently,
really, has explained why it is that the court
would be very careful about that.
However, the more I -- as I thought
about it, there could be two sets of
grandparents and then I think eight sets of
great-grandparents, because each grandparent
would then have two parents. Anyway, however,
it is. It might be four. But that could be a
lot of proceedings.
Even if the court decided in each
case that there wasn't merit, the family of
origin, the biological or adoptive parents of
the child, would most likely still have to
hire an attorney to protect themselves against
the grandparents and great-grandparents who
might also have attorneys.
So -- and interestingly, I find
myself questioning this in the same way -- the
2850
lesbian and gay civil rights group are very
concerned about this kind of legislation
because they are concerned that it could be
used as harassment against grandparents who
don't approve of the life that their children
are living and the environment in which their
grandchildren are being raised.
And also, some of the
fundamentalist religious groups also are
concerned about this kind of legislation
because, again, it could be used as a tool to
harass parents of children whose grandparents
don't approve of the religious atmosphere in
which they're being raised.
I'm going to vote for this
legislation. But I'm going to remain
concerned about what happens with the outcome
of these kinds of proceedings. But I do
have -- I actually have more faith, by and
large, in the Family Courts than in the
Supreme Courts in these cases.
But anyway, I'm going to vote for
it with the hope that the intention of the
bill is what will happen in reality.
Thank you, Mr. President.
2851
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Thank
you, Senator Duane.
Does any other Senator wish to be
heard on this particular bill?
If not, please read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President, may we please call up Calendar
Number 926, Senate Print Number 7310.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
926, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7310, an
2852
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
establishing a World Trade Center memorial
scholarship program.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Madam
President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle, on the bill.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Madam
President, this is a Governor's program bill
sponsored by myself and most every member of
the Senate. It is a bill that has been put
together very, very carefully, with a lot of
input -- and this is very, very important -- a
lot of input from members of this body who
were dealing with the families of those who
had loved ones perish on 9/11.
And we have gone through very, very
carefully, looking at many of the possible
scenarios that families gave to us that were
put into this bill.
There is probably no greater legacy
2853
that a person who lost their life could leave
than in assuring that their families -- their
spouses, their children, and those who are
financially dependent upon them -- will be
able to fulfill their dreams and their hopes
in getting a higher education.
We've talked about it, each one of
us on this floor, the importance of a higher
education in making sure that those dreams are
fulfilled. It's really a ladder, in most
every case, to one's personal success.
And so we ensure that the children,
the spouses, and the financial dependents,
whether they receive an education at a state
university, city university, or private school
within the state, will receive what is
currently the SUNY tuition and room and board
of $12,000 a year.
That grant will go to students
attending New York State colleges regardless
of whether the person was killed or disabled,
or disabled at the World Trade Center, the
Pentagon, or those on the hijacked United
Flight 93 and Flight 175 and American Airlines
Flight 11 and 77. There is no residency
2854
requirement for those that were victims of
that attack.
It also includes members of the
fire, ambulance, and emergency medical
personnel involved in the response effort.
The grants are good for four
undergraduate years, or there are some
programs that are five years if the eligible
student is enrolled in a five-year program.
The grants -- that's the $12,000 -
are considered last dollars. That's after
Pell and TAP is taken out. And by the way,
every bill that we deal with, and you can look
at law in terms of scholarship, includes that
language that we go to TAP and Pell grants
first and then the scholarship kicks in.
One of the inputs that was given,
very, very critical, was that there were
students who were attending out-of-state
colleges prior to September 11th. We want to
make sure that they continue in those
programs. It's the only exception for paying
for an out-of-state tuition. All other
tuitions are and grants are in New York State
schools. The exception is a student who was
2855
in a program prior to 9/11, they will be
eligible.
The legislation will be deemed to
have been in effect on April 1, 2001, and is
applicable for awards made for the 2001-2002
academic year.
I am -- my name appears first on
this legislation, but this legislation, when
we pass it, is something that this body, with
your input, with your input will, I think,
give to the survivors, children, and spouses
and those who are financially dependent, will
allow them to complete that dream that in many
cases was started at a dinner table or
someplace with a person about the importance
of that higher education.
I can think of no more important
piece of legislation that this body will be
passing than this. And I thank my colleagues
for your attention to detail and for the way
that you have dealt with the families to
ensure that the State of New York will be
doing this. And certainly to our Governor for
making this a priority and making it a program
bill.
2856
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, this bill represents three things.
Promises made, promises kept.
The Governor announced this
initiative, this idea, shortly after
September 11th. Senator Bruno, Senator
LaValle, working very, very hard, have made
this a reality. And against the backdrop of
terrible economic news, we go forward.
The bill also shows that we will
not forget the victims or their families. The
bill also demonstrates that we believe in the
future. On September 11th, thousands of
people lost their futures. But with this act
today, we continue to believe in the future of
the children of the victims.
You are to be congratulated, my
colleagues. We worked together on this. We
all kept pushing. And we do this together.
Assembly Speaker Silver should also be
congratulated.
And this is what the people want to
2857
see from us. They want to see us getting
together, building a consensus, moving forward
and protecting and benefiting the people of
this state.
And lastly, the Governor. During
all the times that Governor visited my
district right after 9/11, with all the
families that he met with, the only thing that
I ever saw the Governor hold were the hands of
the victims and their families, the hands of
the people that he represented and cared for.
This is leadership. Innovation, ideas and
action: that's George Pataki.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
2858
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President, may we return to motions and
resolutions. I believe there is a privileged
resolution by Senator Bruno at the desk. May
we have the title read.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno,
Legislative Resolution Number 5282,
commemorating the 51st consecutive observance
of the National Day of Prayer in the State of
New York, Thursday, May 2, 2002.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: All in
favor of adopting the resolution signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
resolution is carried.
Senator Fuschillo.
2859
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President, may we return to the reports of
standing committees. I believe there's a
report of the Banking Committee at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes,
there is.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley,
from the Committee on Banks, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 2840, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the Banking Law;
4634A, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
6515, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
7175, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
And Senate Print 7179, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the Banking Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills are reported to Third
2860
Reading Calendar.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President, is there any housekeeping at the
desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There is
none.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President, there will be an immediate meeting
of the Majority Conference in the Majority
Conference Room following the adjournment of
the session.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Majority
in the Majority Conference Room following
adjournment of the session.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President, there being no further business, I
move we adjourn until Monday, May 1st, at
3:00 p.m., intervening days being legislative
days.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Monday, May 6th, at -
2861
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Before we
adjourn, let's adjourn till Monday, May 6th.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: We'll do
that.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Will you
recognize Senator Brown.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Madam
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 755.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection.
On motion, the Senate stands
adjourned Monday, May 6th, at 3:00 p.m.,
intervening days being legislative days.
(Whereupon, at 12:00 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)