Regular Session - May 7, 2002
2930
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 7, 2002
3:10 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR PATRICIA K. McGEE, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
2931
P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: In the
absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a
moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Monday, May 6, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, May 5,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
2932
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could,
with the consent of the Minority, go to
Calendar Number 944 and have the last section
read for the purposes of Senator Breslin
voting.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
944, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7359, an
act to amend the Insurance Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect July 1, 2002.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
2933
THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin
recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Withdraw
the roll call.
The Secretary will read the reports
of standing committees.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin,
from the Committee on Racing, Gaming and
Wagering, reports:
Senate Print 7182, by Senator
Larkin, an act to amend the Racing,
Pari-Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.
Senator Espada, from the Committee
on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, reports:
Senate Print 431, by Senator
DeFrancisco, an act to amend the Navigation
Law;
1128, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
1918, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the Education Law;
6691, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Mental Hygiene Law;
And 7302, by Senator Espada, an act
establishing.
2934
Senator Fuschillo, from the
Committee on Consumer Protection, reports:
Senate Print 222C, by Senator
Nozzolio, an act to amend the General Business
Law;
880, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the General Business Law;
3102, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the Personal Property Law;
4164A, by Senator Marcellino, an
act to amend the General Business Law;
4352, by Senator Hannon, an act to
amend the General Business Law;
4697C, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the General Business Law;
5240, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the General Business Law;
5302A, by Senator Maltese, an act
to amend the General Business Law;
5378A, with amendments, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the General Business
Law;
And Senate Print 6332, by Senator
Kuhl, an act to amend the General Business
Law.
2935
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills direct to third reading.
The Secretary will read the reports
of standing committees.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
following nominations:
As a justice of the Supreme Court
of the 12th Judicial District, Carolyn Geller,
of New York.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Lack.
SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam
President.
I rise to move the nomination of
Carolyn Geller, of New York, as a justice of
the Supreme Court of the 12th Judicial
District.
We received the nomination of Judge
Geller from the Governor. We've examined,
once again, her credentials; they were found
to be perfectly in order. She appeared before
the committee earlier today and was
2936
unanimously moved from the committee for
consideration of the floor at this time.
And I most respectfully yield to
Senator Maltese for purposes of a second.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maltese.
SENATOR MALTESE: Madam
President, I rise to second the nomination of
Carolyn Geller, of New York, as a justice of
the Supreme Court for the 12th Judicial
District.
I commend Senator Lack and the
members of the Judiciary Committee and
certainly express our sincere appreciation and
congratulations to Governor Pataki on this
fine nomination.
Carolyn Geller has an excellent
background for a justice of the Supreme Court.
She received her L.L.M. from the New York
University School of Law. She received her
J.D. from Hofstra University School of Law,
served on the Law Review.
She was admitted to the Second
Department in May of 1980. Her honors during
her stay at Hofstra were associate editor of
2937
the Hofstra Law Review, a moot court advisor,
and a teaching fellow in contracts.
She received her M.A. in history
from Adelphi University and her B.A. in
history from Queens College.
Her legal experience is extensive
and varied. She served as a special referee
in the Matrimonial Part in Queens Supreme
Court from January 2001 to the present.
She has the distinction of being
appointed as a justice of the Supreme Court of
the State of New York from August 2001 to
December of 2001.
She served as a special referee in
the Matrimonial Part in Queens Supreme Court
from May of '97 to August of 2001, where she
presided at nonjury trials of actions for
divorce and determined all issues, including
divorce and ancillary relief requested
therein.
She served as an associate court
attorney for the law department of Queens
Supreme Court from December '79 to May of '97.
In short, Madam President, she has
received a -- the length and breadth of her
2938
experience is so extensive, she has received
an excellent background to admirably serve as
a justice of the Supreme Court. And in her
service as a justice of the Supreme Court, all
litigants that appeared before her and her
fellow members of the bench and bar had
nothing but admiration for her service on the
court.
It is my pleasure to second the
nomination of Carolyn Geller as a justice of
the Supreme Court, and I congratulate her.
She is present in the chamber with her son,
Richard.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Maltese.
The question is on the confirmation
of Carolyn Geller, of New York, as a justice
of the Supreme Court of the 12th Judicial
District. All in favor will signify by saying
aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: All
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Carolyn
2939
Geller is hereby confirmed as a justice of the
Supreme Court of the 12th Judicial District.
Judge Geller is in the balcony with
us now with her son, Richard.
And may I take this opportunity to
say on behalf of the Senate, welcome to the
Supreme Court, and we're very proud of you and
extend to you our best congratulations.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: As a judge of the
Family Court for the County of Montgomery,
Joseph D. Wollman, of Amsterdam.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Lack.
SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam
President.
I rise once again, to move the
nomination of Joseph D. Wollman, of Amsterdam,
as a judge of the Family Court for the County
of Montgomery.
We've received Mr. Wollman's resume
from the Governor and his nomination from the
Governor. We have examined that very
2940
carefully. It is found to be perfectly in
order. He appeared earlier this morning
before the committee and was unanimously moved
from the committee to the floor for
consideration at this time.
And I most respectfully yield, for
purposes of a second, to Senator Farley.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very
much, Madam President.
I'm very pleased to move the
nomination of Joseph Wollman. Let me just say
that the Wollman family is one of the most
distinguished families in Montgomery County.
His father is a judge who is with him here in
the gallery. He also has his wife and two
twin daughters, who are magnificent young
women.
And the Family Court in Montgomery
County is a single court, but it also
cross-serves in other capacities. And Judge
Wollman will be an outstanding jurist, because
he is a graduate of St. Bonaventure -- in your
district, Madam President -- and also the
2941
Franklin Pierce Law Center.
And let me just say that Joe
Wollman is not only an outstanding community
citizen -- he's a member of Rotary, the Boys
and Girls Club of Montgomery County, and has
been very active in community affairs, serving
particularly with the Mental Health
Association.
And he has been a Montgomery County
public defender, he's been an attorney with
the Department of Social Services, and a law
guardian.
He's eminently prepared to be an
outstanding Family Court judge, which is one
of the more difficult jobs, I think, that we
all know, those of us that are in the law area
of the -- and he is well suited. Not only
that, he is a family man and somebody that has
a magnificent family.
I know that -- I think that most of
that gallery there is with him, and you can
just see the entourage that he brings with him
in support.
Joseph Wollman will be an
outstanding judge of the Family Court of
2942
Montgomery County, and it is with enthusiasm
that I help move his nomination.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
question is on the confirmation of Joseph D.
Wollman, of Amsterdam, as a judge of the
Family Court for the County of Montgomery.
All in favor will signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Joseph
Wollman is hereby confirmed as a judge of the
Family Court of the County of Montgomery.
Judge Wollman is joining us in the
balcony today with his wife, Susan, his
children, Hannah and Abigail, and his friends.
And they're all here to join with
us in congratulations to you, Judge, in your
appointment to the Family Court of the County
of Montgomery.
So welcome.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Espada.
2943
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
we wish to announce that there's an immediate
meeting of the Civil Service and Pensions
Committee in the Majority Conference Room,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Civil
Service and Pensions Committee in the Majority
Conference Room.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 794, with amendments,
by Senator Lack, an act to amend the Estates,
Powers and Trusts Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Can we
have some order, please.
THE SECRETARY: Senate Print
2888, by Senator Libous, an act to amend the
Family Court Act;
3512A, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend the General Obligations Law;
4622, with amendments, by Senator
Hannon, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court
2944
Procedure Act;
5669A, by Senator Lack, an act to
amend the General Obligations Law;
And 6607, by Senator Hoffmann, an
act to amend the Uniform City Court Act.
Senator Padavan, from the Committee
on Cities, reports:
Senate Print 4331, by Senator
Padavan, an act to amend the General City Law;
7238, by Senator Spano, an act to
an act to authorize;
7282, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
And 7307, by Senator Padavan, an
act to amend the General City Law and others.
Senator Hannon, from the Committee
on Health, reports:
Senate Print 1741, by Senator
Hoffmann, an act to amend the Public Health
Law;
2821, by Senator Hannon, an act to
amend the Public Health Law;
5382A, by Senator Maziarz, an act
to amend the Public Health Law;
6684, by Senator LaValle, an act in
2945
relation;
6996, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the Public Health Law.
And 7144A, by Senator Farley, an
act to amend the Public Health Law.
Senator Velella, from the Committee
on Labor, reports:
Senate Print 522, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Workers'
Compensation Law;
1398, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
authorize;
2069, by Senator Balboni, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
2070, by Senator Balboni, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
2404, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
4155, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
6861, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
7093, by Senator Marcellino, an act
to amend the Labor Law;
7329, by Senator Velella, an act to
2946
amend the Labor Law;
7330, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
2901, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
4382, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Workers' Compensation Law;
6862, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Labor Law;
And Senate Print 6863, by Senator
Velella, an act to amend the Labor Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills are ordered directly to
third reading.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
if we could take up the Finance Committee
report at this time, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following bill direct to third reading:
2947
Senate Print 7366, by the Senate
Committee on Rules, an act making
appropriations for the support of government.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
if we could please take up Calendar 977 at
this time, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 977, Senator Stafford moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 11313 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 7366,
Third Reading Calendar 977.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
977, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 11313, an act making
appropriations for the support of government.
2948
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
is there a message of necessity and
appropriation at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes,
there is Senator.
SENATOR ESPADA: Move to accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: All in
favor of accepting the message of necessity
and appropriation signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
message of necessity is accepted.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
3. Senators Brown, Dollinger, and Duane
2949
recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
if we could continue with the Finance
Committee report at this time, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following nominations.
As members of the Rochester-Genesee
Regional Transportation Authority, Thomas C.
Tucker, of Batavia, and Frank Vitagliano, Jr.,
of Warsaw.
As director of the State of
New York Municipal Bond Bank Agency, Kenneth
M. Bialo, of Larchmont.
As members of the New York State
Olympic Regional Development Authority, John
J. Arehart, of Warrensburg, and Arthur S.
Speigel, of Rouses Point.
As a banking member of the State
Banking Board, David C. Mancuso, of Dunkirk.
2950
As a public member of the State
Banking Board, Erland E. Kailbourne, of
Williamsville.
As a member of the Small Business
Advisory Board, Emma Kounine, of Mahopac.
As a member of the State Board for
Historic Preservation, Joseph J. Ryan, of
Buchanan.
As a member of the Fire Fighting
and Code Enforcement Personnel Standards and
Education Commission, Kevin Seamus Malley, of
the Bronx.
As a member of the Taconic State
Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
Commission, George T. Ilse, of Rye.
As members of the Advisory Council
on Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services,
Reverend Arthur M. Johnson, of Garrison, and
Peggy Pezzimenti Keller, of Olean.
And as a member of the Passenger
Tramway Advisory Council, Bernard P. McGarry,
of Albany.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam
2951
President, just briefly.
I asked the two members of the
Regional Transit Authority in the Rochester
area to come in and talk about some issues
that I think are of significant importance in
the Rochester area community.
And I'm going to vote in favor of
both of these nominees to the Regional Transit
Authority in the Rochester area because,
although I have a strong difference of opinion
with the majority of that authority about the
use of taxpayer money to fund advertisements
in favor of what I think is a still a
controversial and inchoate project relating to
the creation of a new bus terminal, I do think
that these two gentlemen provide a reasonable
perspective for the outlying communities that
are represented on the transit authority.
I think, consistent with the
structure of the authority, they are entitled
to represent their communities. But I
certainly hope that our discussion at the
Finance Committee will suggest that they take
a very careful look at the use of public funds
to promote not only controversial public works
2952
projects but that there be an extensive study
about the use of advertising, about such
projects as a tool to increase ridership.
It seems to me that the transit
authority ought to be in the business of
promoting bus usage and not in the business of
promoting controversial projects or, for that
matter, suggesting that a political official's
inability to support it constitutes not
playing on the team.
With that caveat, Madam President,
I'm going to vote in favor of both of these
nominees, Mr. Tucker and Mr. Vitagliano, and
wish them well. But I hope that the authority
generally will revisit this issue and come up
with a rationale for why we're spending public
dollars to promote something other than
ridership on the buses in the Rochester area.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
move the nominations, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
question is on the confirmation of the
2953
nominations as read by the Secretary.
All in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
confirmation of those mentioned by the
Secretary is confirmed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz,
from the Committee on Aging, reports:
Senate Print 4027, by Senator
Velella, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
Law;
5146, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
And 7323, by Senator Maziarz, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
Senator Rath, from the Committee on
Local Government, reports:
Senate Print 1244, by Senator
Padavan, an act to amend the County Law;
2398, by Senator Rath, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
2954
2558A, by Senator Stachowski, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law;
4552, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
5088, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Town Law;
6221, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6366, by Senator Leibell, an act in
relation;
6502A, by Senator Bonacic, an act
to amend;
6520, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6673, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
6712, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6788, by Senator Leibell, an act to
authorize;
6800, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6927, by Senator Hannon, an act
authorizing;
6928, by Senator Hannon, an act
2955
authorizing;
6978, by Senator Wright, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6829A, by Senator Skelos, an act to
ratify, legalize, validate and confirm;
7146, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Town Law;
7150, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the Real Property Tax Law;
7152, by Senator Meier, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
7153, by -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Excuse
me just one moment.
Can we have some order, please, in
the chamber. Thank you.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: 7153, by Senator
Skelos, an act to establish;
7160, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
7200, by Senator Balboni, an act
authorizing;
7294, by Senator Balboni, an act to
2956
amend Chapter 492;
And Senate Print 7319, by Senator
Padavan, an act to amend the County Law.
Senator Trunzo, from the Committee
on Transportation, reports:
Senate Print 759B, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the Vehicle and
Traffic Law;
1115A, by Senator Morahan, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
2372, by Senator Bruno, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
3074, by Senator Lachman, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
3155, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
5552, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
5825B, by Senator Johnson, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6150, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6663A, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
6813, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
2957
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6870, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
7086, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
7183, by Senator Marcellino, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
7187, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
7266, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
7285, by Senator Espada, an act to
amend the Highway Law;
7322, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law.
Senator Alesi, from the Committee
on Commerce, Economic Development and Small
Business, reports:
Senate Print 2712, by Senator
Padavan, an act to amend the State
Administrative Procedure Act;
4606A, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
6333, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
2958
And 6565, by Senator Alesi, an act
to amend the Public Authorities Law.
Senator Marchi, from the Committee
on Corporations, Authorities and Commissions,
reports:
Senate Print 361, by Senator
Morahan, an act to amend the Not-For-Profit
Corporation Law;
2021, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law;
2378, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
2546, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law;
3766, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law;
5325, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
5666, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
5779, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law;
6493, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6554, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
2959
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6555, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend Chapter 915;
6557, by Senator Bonacic, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6633, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6634, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6635, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6679, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend Chapter 672;
6967, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
7017, by Senator Fuschillo, an act
to amend the Public Authorities Law;
And 7227, by Senator Velella, an
act to amend Chapter 465.
Senator Kuhl, from the Committee on
Education, reports:
Senate Print 443, by Senator
Maltese, an act to amend the Education Law;
3134, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
2960
6373, by Senator LaValle, an act to
authorize;
And 6827, by Senator Seward, an act
to amend Chapter 217.
Senator Wright, from the Committee
on Energy and Telecommunications, reports:
Senate Print 2104, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Tax Law;
6937, by Senator Wright, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
And 7289, by Senator Hannon, an act
to amend the State Technology Law.
Senator Morahan, from the Committee
on Veterans and Military Affairs, reports:
Senate Print 109B, by Senator
Marcellino, an act to amend the Vehicle and
Traffic Law;
1312A, by Senator Meier, an act to
amend the Town Law;
3129, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Military Law;
4132C, by Senator Morahan, an act
to amend the Executive Law;
4735, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the State Finance Law;
2961
4738, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
4739A, by Senator Morahan, an act
creating;
6081, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6185, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6315, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend Chapter 266;
6334, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Public Authorities Law;
6441, by Senator Nozzolio, an act
to amend the Real Property Tax Law;
And 6839, by Senator Morahan, an
act to amend the Public Health Law.
Also Senate Prints 4556, by Senator
Leibell, an act to amend the Military Law;
And 6680, by Senator Espada, an act
to amend the Education Law.
Senator DeFrancisco, from the
Committee on Tourism, Recreation and Sports
Development, reports:
Senate Print 3833, by Senator
Marchi, an act to amend the Navigation Law;
2962
And 4240, by Senator DeFrancisco,
an act to amend the Navigation Law.
Senator Marcellino, from the
Committee on Environmental Conservation,
reports:
Senate Print 3112A, by Senator
McGee, an act to amend the Environmental
Conservation Law;
4755C, by Senator Marcellino, an
act to amend the Environmental Conservation
Law;
6160, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Environmental Conservation Law;
And 7167, by Senator Alesi, an act
to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
Senator Spano, from the Committee
on Investigations and Government Operations,
reports:
Senate Print 3968, by Senator
Stafford, an act to amend the Tax Law;
6165, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
act to amend the Tax Law;
6317, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
6321, with amendments, by Senator
2963
Skelos, an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage
Control Law;
6500, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
act to amend the Tax Law;
6653, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
6730, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
6777, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
authorize;
6806, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Public Officers Law;
7103, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Public Officers Law;
And 7196, by Senator Nozzolio, an
act to amend the Tax Law.
Senator Nozzolio, from the
Committee on Crime Victims, Crime and
Correction, reports:
Senate Print 80A, by Senator
Hoffmann, an act to amend the Correction Law;
1131, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Correction Law;
And Senate Print 2164, by Senator
Lack, an act to amend the Correction Law.
2964
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
amendments are offered to the following Third
Reading Calendar bills:
By Senator Nozzolio, page 22,
Calendar 493, Senate Print Number 3838;
By Senator Espada, page number 30,
Calendar Number 640, Senate Print Number 6478;
By Senator Trunzo, page 47,
Calendar Number 853, Senate Print Number 7280;
By Senator LaValle, page 49,
Calendar Number 874, Senate Print Number
6705A;
And by Senator Skelos, page 49,
Calendar Number 876, Senate Print Number 6831.
Madam President, I now move that
2965
these bills retain their place on the order of
third reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted. All
bills will retain their place on third
reading.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
are there any substitutions at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes,
there are.
SENATOR ESPADA: Will you please
make them at this time, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 24,
Senator Hannon moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Health, Assembly Bill Number
10378 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 6763, Third Reading
Calendar 536.
On page 30, Senator Saland moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Children and
Families, Assembly Bill Number 8562 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 4595, Third Reading Calendar 634.
2966
On page 31, Senator Kuhl moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Education,
Assembly Bill Number 10601A and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6906A,
Third Reading Calendar 642.
On page 32, Senator Maziarz moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Health,
Assembly Bill Number 10018 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6876,
Third Reading Calendar 664.
On page 38, Senator Morahan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Veterans
and Military Affairs, Assembly Bill Number
1449 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 500, Third Reading Calendar
737.
On page 40, Senator Morahan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Civil
Service and Pensions, Assembly Bill Number
9030B and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 5431B, Third Reading
Calendar 773.
On page 49, Senator Skelos moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Codes,
Assembly Bill Number 10554 and substitute it
2967
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6658,
Third Reading Calendar 873.
On page 56, Senator Seward moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Insurance,
Assembly Bill Number 11171 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6589A,
Third Reading Calendar 942.
On page 57, Senator Bonacic moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Housing,
Construction and Community Development,
Assembly Bill Number 9968 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6843,
Third Reading Calendar 954.
On page 57, Senator Bonacic moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Housing,
Construction and Community Development,
Assembly Bill Number 9969 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6844,
Third Reading Calendar 955.
And on page 57, Senator Bonacic
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
Housing, Construction and Community
Development, Assembly Bill Number 9967 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6845, Third Reading Calendar 956.
2968
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:
Substitutions ordered.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
may we please adopt the Resolution Calendar,
with the exception of Resolutions 5305 and
5306, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: All
those in favor of adopting the Resolution
Calendar, with the exception of Resolutions
5305 and 5306, signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Resolution Calendar is adopted, with the
exception of Resolutions 5305 and 5306.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
may we have the noncontroversial reading of
the calendar, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2969
508, by Member of the Assembly Luster,
Assembly Print Number 10452, an act to amend
the Education Law, in relation to the
membership of the Board of Trustees of Cornell
University.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
632, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 404, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to the charging of a fee.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
2970
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
634, substituted earlier today by the Assembly
Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number
8562, an act to amend the Family Court Act and
the Social Services Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
635, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4902, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
the Social Services Law, in relation to open
adoption agreements.
2971
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
720, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6682, an
act to amend the Nassau County Civil Divisions
Act, in relation to the Port Washington Police
District.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
2972
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
757, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3346B,
an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
relation to issuance of orders of protection.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Madam President,
may we lay that bill aside for the day,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
758, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4230A, an
act to amend the Domestic Relations Law and
the Social Services Law, in relation to
consents to adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
2973
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
812, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3088C,
an act to amend Chapter 433 of the Laws of
1985.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: A
home-rule message is at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
822, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6382, an
act authorizing the assessor of the County of
Nassau to accept an application.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
2974
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
837, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
2836A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic
Law, in relation to increasing penalties.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
855, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 136A, an
act to amend the Penal Law and the Vehicle and
Traffic Law, in relation to endangering.
2975
SENATOR BROWN: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
856, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 437,
an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
the payment of reparation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
866, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3279, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
creating definitions.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
2976
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
875, by Member of the Assembly Sanders,
Assembly Print Number 7580C, an act in
relation to establishing.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
878, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 6942, an
act to adjust certain state aid payments.
SENATOR BROWN: Lay it aside.
2977
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
887, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1301A, an
act to amend the Executive Law and the Social
Services Law, in relation to making reports.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
889, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3775,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to personal interviews.
SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
2978
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
895, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4704, an
act -
SENATOR BROWN: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
927, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1042, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
the terms of community college trustees.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
933, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2840, an
act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
increased penalty levels.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
2979
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect in 30 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
934, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4634A, an
act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
annual reporting requirements.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
SENATOR BROWN: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
944, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7359, an
2980
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
coverage.
SENATOR BROWN: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
945, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7360, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
group health insurance.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Espada, that completes the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Madam
President. Now may we have the controversial
reading of the calendar, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
2981
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
855, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 136A, an
act to amend the Penal Law and the Vehicle and
Traffic Law.
SENATOR BROWN: Explanation.
SENATOR ESPADA: Lay it aside
temporarily, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside temporarily.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
878, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 6942, an
act to adjust certain state aid payments.
SENATOR ESPADA: Lay it aside
temporarily, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside temporarily.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
889, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3775,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to personal interviews by the Board of Parole.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect -
2982
SENATOR BROWN: Explanation.
SENATOR ESPADA: Lay it aside
temporarily, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is temporarily laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
895, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4704, an
act to amend the Social Services Law.
SENATOR BROWN: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator Brown,
this legislation would expand upon existing
law to disqualify persons fleeing from
prosecution, custody, or conviction of any
criminal charge from receiving public
assistance.
Currently, this disqualification
applies to persons who have committed or have
attempted to commit a crime which is a felony.
This bill would extend this disqualification
to instances where the crime in question is a
misdemeanor.
Also, this bill would expand the
type of information that may be shared between
2983
a Social Services district office and law
enforcement in order to apprehend a person
fleeing criminal charges.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
Oh, Senator Duane, I'm sorry.
SENATOR DUANE: Madam President,
I was briefly distracted. Are we doing 895?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: We are
doing Senator Maziarz's bill, Calendar Number
895.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. If
the sponsor would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I'm wondering if the sponsor could
tell me if this interface between those who
are receiving public assistance and may be the
subject of a prosecution, if that exists with
any other state agency now.
2984
SENATOR MAZIARZ: None that I'm
aware of offhand, Senator.
SENATOR DUANE: And through you,
Madam President, if the sponsor will continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DUANE: I'm wondering why
the sponsor has singled out this one agency
that provides a public benefit for interface
with the criminal justice system.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Well, Madam
President, through you, I would certainly
consider it for others, Senator. But some of
the areas that I represent, particularly the
counties, have requested that I do this
legislation in relation to the Department of
Social Services.
I'm sure that there may be other
agencies that do this; I'm just not aware of
them, Senator Duane.
2985
SENATOR DUANE: Through you,
Madam President, does that mean that the
sponsor is not aware that there's an interface
between, for instance -- I'm just having
trouble concentrating.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Can you
close that door. Make sure that door is
closed, please. Thank you.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
I'm wondering, is the sponsor then
saying that as far as he knows, the Workers'
Comp Board or Unemployment or -- well, let's
just pick these two agencies -- are not at
this time interfacing with the criminal
justice system?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, did you hear the question?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: I did hear the
question, Madam President. And the answer is
that I am not aware of it, no.
And you asked that same question
last year, Senator Duane. And I thought maybe
you would introduce legislation and bring
those into it.
SENATOR DUANE: Through you,
2986
Madam President, if the sponsor would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Though I know my
transcripts of my speaking don't always make
greatest hits, if the Senator remembers from
last year, I indicated that I was
uncomfortable about the slippery slope there
might begin to happen. In other words, if you
could do it for people on public assistance,
then you could start doing it in other
agencies as well.
But I am curious as to why it is
that the sponsor would believe that -- you
know what, Madam President, I'm just going to
speak on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Maziarz.
Senator Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: I know the
2987
sponsor is disappointed, but anyone who is not
here could just review last year's transcript
on this.
But I will repeat what my concerns
are. I just find it appalling that we choose
the agency where the poorest New Yorkers go to
get assistance to interface with the criminal
justice system. It says to me that some
believe that poor people are more prone to
commit crimes than are people of other income
groups.
And if we are going to start this
interface between Social Services agencies and
criminal justice agencies, which I'm opposed
to -- but for those who are for it, why not
interface then with Workers' Comp or
Unemployment or any number of other agencies
which provide a public benefit?
I think it's completely wrong to
target poor people and to make believe that
they are more likely to be those people who
have committed a crime. That is just not
true.
So I would say to my colleagues if
they really wanted to be fair about what's
2988
really happening in this society, they should
put their money where their mouths are and
vote against this bill until such time a bill
comes before us that includes benefits
agencies which provides benefit to all income
groups, and then let's see how you all vote on
it.
Because when it impacts people who
are getting other benefits, like workers' comp
or, for that matter, people that are receiving
benefits, state benefits as a result of 9/11,
are we going to start this -- I mean, if we're
going to do it for poor people, then we should
do to for everybody. And I'd love to see how
everybody votes on a bill that targets anybody
that gets any public assistance.
So I urge my colleagues to vote no,
because it is just plain wrong to target poor
people and make believe that they commit more
crimes than anybody else.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Duane.
Any other Senator wishing to speak
on the bill?
2989
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam
President, I would like to see if the Senator
would yield to answer a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, do you care to yield to Senator
Montgomery?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank
you, Madam President. Through you.
I just want to find out, Senator
Maziarz, the -- I'm reading in the support
memo, and it says "No public assistance shall
be given to any person who is fleeing to avoid
prosecution, custody, or conviction for any
crime or attempted crime."
Does this law already now cover
felony convictions? So is that already part
of the law?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, it is.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: So your
legislation now will cover any misdemeanor
2990
charges?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, that's
correct, Senator.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. And
does that also include a charge in an instance
where an individual may have been
participating in some protest at some point in
time and may have received a charge based on
an arrest related to a nonviolent activity,
such as participating in a protest rally of
some sort, even as a college student,
whatever, and now is perhaps in need of some
public assistance, for whatever reason, would
this bill prevent that person as well, in a
situation like that?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: If they were
charge with a misdemeanor, yes, it would.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
So it does not distinguish between the level
of the charge or the activity except if it's a
misdemeanor, you're still -
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. Yes.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- unable to
receive public assistance?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
2991
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
Thank you, Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
Senator.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Briefly on
the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery, briefly on the bill.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I think one
of the problems that we often find with these
bills is that in making them so all-inclusive,
it -- there is a danger that we in fact are
bringing people into the criminal justice
system, on one hand, and in this instance we
are now preventing people from ever being able
to receive any public assistance, even though
they may have been involved in something very,
very minor in their lives.
Which is much more likely to happen
with people who do not have means: poor
people, people who live in urban areas, having
2992
to deal with inadequate educational programs,
not enough support as young people, as
teenagers, not having recreational activities,
not having opportunities, and on and on.
So we keep penalizing people
essentially because they're poor, and this is
just one more small bill, one more small piece
of legislation that I think, I believe,
reflects that attitude that if you are a poor
person, especially if you're a poor, young
person, the fewer opportunities that you have,
the more ways we will figure out to punish
you.
So I'm voting no on this, and I
hope that my colleagues will join me in voting
against this legislation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
Through you, Madam President, if the sponsor
would yield to a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, will you yield?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
2993
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator.
You mentioned you put in this bill
at the request of some of your counties.
Which division of what counties were concerned
about this bill?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Which division
of the counties?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Was it
social services, was it criminal justice?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, the
Department of Social Services, county
sheriff's department, county executive.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So it was
both the criminal justice and social services?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And in your
discussions -- oh, I'm sorry. Madam
President, if the sponsor will continue to
yield.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly,
Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
2994
Did you get a definition of what it means to
be fleeing from a misdemeanor from either the
Social Services Department or through the
county sheriff?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Did they give
me a definition? No, they did not, Senator.
I would assume fleeing means avoiding
prosecution.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, through you, if the sponsor would
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz -
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: -
continues to yield, Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I'm not personally familiar with
anything in Social Services statute that would
define fleeing. And I'm still a little
confused about the definition of fleeing from
misdemeanor under criminal law.
Can you explain to me what fleeing
from a misdemeanor actually means to a
2995
sheriff's department?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: I would say
attempting to avoid being caught and
prosecuted, Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So
technically -- oh, excuse me. Madam
President, through you, if the sponsor would
continue to yield.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
In this law, as I read it, it's the
sheriff's department or the police department
that would initiate action, not the Social
Services Department; is that your
understanding?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, it would
be a law enforcement agency. It could be a
district attorney, a sheriff's department,
local police department.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So if -
I'm sorry. Madam President, if the sponsor
would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, do you -
2996
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
so much.
So it's your sheriff's department
or police department that has requested that
they are searching for people who have been
fleeing from misdemeanors and that they
believe that this is a model for successfully
finding people that they could not otherwise
find who have outstanding misdemeanor charges?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. Yes.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay. So
may I ask another question, through you, Madam
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, another question?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Indeed.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
Is it your understanding that in
2997
this bill any member of a household applying
for public assistance who might be defined as
fleeing a misdemeanor would then not be
eligible, or that the entire household would
not be eligible?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: I'm sorry,
you're going to have to repeat the question,
Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: If an
individual member of a household under this
law is defined as being fleeing from a
misdemeanor, is it your understanding that
this law would basically remove that person
from the household for eligibility, or would
the entire household be refused eligibility?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, if that
individual is the recipient of the Social
Services benefits, then, yes, it would be that
individual.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So through
you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
2998
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
so much.
So if I was a mother with two
children, one of whom, say, was a 7-year-old
and the other of whom was a 16-year-old, and
the 16-year-old had in fact not responded to a
charge of selling fireworks, or graffiti, it's
your understanding that the 16-year-old would
be prevented from participating in public
assistance or that I, the mother, with my two
children, would be prevented?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: No, it would be
the applicant for the Social Services that
would be denied.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: All right.
So it's your understanding that I would then
be denied public assistance for myself and my
two children if there was an outstanding
misdemeanor charge on my 15-year-old?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator, no,
not on your 15-year-old, Senator. In the most
unlikely event that you were charged with a
crime, you would be the one who would be
denied.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: But it
2999
could be any household member?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: No.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No. And if
I am charged -- thank you. Madam President,
thank you, if you would continue to yield.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Sure, Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
And if it was the reverse
situation, where I had a 15-year-old and a
7-year-old but I was the person that the
sheriff's department discovered had an
outstanding -- again, I don't believe they're
warrants on misdemeanors, but some outstanding
record of having failed to address a
misdemeanor charge, I would not be able to
apply for public benefits? That is your
understanding?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: That is
correct. If you were the applicant and you
had some outstanding misdemeanor charge
against you, yes.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, through you, if the sponsor would
continue to yield.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
3000
President.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
But I could still receive benefits
for my children? Or they also, because I was
unable to apply for benefits, they would also
be prevented from receiving benefits?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. No. They
would -- through you, Madam President, they
would be able to receive those benefits.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So in
fact -- I'm sorry, through you, Madam
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
But in fact if there were
misdemeanor charges, I would likely -- or do
we think it's possible, Senator, that I would
likely, once I learned that I was in fact
fleeing -- although I would assume I
originally didn't know I was fleeing from a
misdemeanor when this process started -- that
I would likely simply pull out of the process
of continuing benefits or applying for
3001
benefits for my children because I would be
trying to resolve the misdemeanor charge for
myself? Is that your belief, that through
this bill I would end up -
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Through you,
Madam President, I'm having a little difficult
time following you, Senator. But if you were
the applicant and you had been convicted of a
crime or charged with a misdemeanor, you would
not be able to receive those benefits.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So, Madam
President -- I will get back to this.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: It would not
have anything to do with any other member of
your household.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
3002
so much.
Well, we don't quite have an
understanding of fleeing for Social Services
law. Do we have an understanding about how
one lifts an old misdemeanor charge that may
be on the books against you if in fact it is a
resolved issue but still remains on the books
if you are an applicant?
Say I am the mother attempting to
apply for assistance. I am notified at the
time that I have applied for assistance -
because the sheriff's office has done a
computer match, I'll assume -- that I have an
outstanding misdemeanor. Do we know how I
would resolve the problem of an outstanding
old misdemeanor that may or may not have ever
been resolved through the books?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: I would assume,
Senator, that that's covered in some other
section of the Penal Law. But it's not a part
of this particular amendment at all.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So this
wouldn't do anything to resolve that existing
problem in the law.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: No.
3003
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay.
Thank you.
Just, if you'll bear with me, one
more question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, for one more question?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Even more than
one more.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
very much, Senator. Of course,
misdemeanors -
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Not that I'm
trying to encourage you, now.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: There are
so many categories of misdemeanor in state
law, I was just writing down a few of them.
So I just wanted to clarify that
you believe that through this law, in good
faith, we should prevent people from applying
for or continuing to receive public assistance
for themselves and their children if there is
3004
an outstanding misdemeanor charge from a
historical pattern of writing bad checks? You
think that this should apply if they've had a
record of writing bad checks?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Is that a
misdemeanor?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, it is.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Okay. Then the
answer would be yes.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And
adultery? That's also a misdemeanor.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Misdemeanors,
Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It's a
misdemeanor, sir.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Misdemeanors.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Driving
with a suspended license?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Misdemeanors.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It's a
misdemeanor.
Sale of one marijuana cigarette?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: A misdemeanor.
I think -- I can see where you're
going with this, Senator. But I think that
3005
the law enforcement agencies, I think that
they do due diligence in what they do in
attempting to apprehend criminals.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator.
If I may speak on the bill, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Following
up on points that were made by the two
previous senators, and expanding on them, I
think we go down a very dangerous road by
opening up a process where any existing record
of a misdemeanor charge against any member of
a household who is low-income and may find
themselves needing to apply for government
assistance results in a scenario where we go
on perhaps fishing expeditions by police
authorities to cross-check whether there are
any old or outstanding misdemeanor charges.
Again, there's a big difference
between a fleeing felon in the existing law
and someone with an outstanding misdemeanor
charge somewhere in their history.
3006
It's also true, at least in my
city, the city of New York, that as a
low-income person without an attorney, getting
a misdemeanor charge removed from the books,
even if there is no one in fact searching for
them -- in fact, they are not fleeing because
the New York City Police Department is not
looking for them -- based on having a
ten-year-old marijuana-cigarette misdemeanor
or an adultery charge or a nonsupport-of-child
charge or a bad-check-writing charge or a
trespass charge or a disorderly conduct charge
or a charge for fortunetelling without a
license or a graffiti charge or a hazing
charge or a receiving-unlawful-gratuities
charge or, in fact, a loitering to promote
prostitution charge or a patronizing a
prostitute charge or even, it's interesting to
learn, a promotion of gambling charge, or a
contempt of legislature charge, that what we
do is we potentially prevent tens of thousands
of families who in fact are not fleeing from
the police -- and in honesty, the police
wouldn't really know what to do if suddenly
they were all brought to them to deal with -
3007
that what we are really doing is attempting,
in this law, to discourage anyone who believes
they might have had something in their history
or in their children's history from applying
for government assistance.
Because the real issue here is not
that the police and the sheriff's departments
need great assistance to go and find local
historical offenders of nonviolent,
nonthreatening crimes or misdemeanors. But,
rather, it's an intention of county Social
Services offices to come up with yet another
solution to having fewer people come to them
for assistance.
Because the truth is, you can scare
people away prettily easily from turning to
government for assistance if you flash in
their face the possibility of police
investigations and computer checks on everyone
in their household for any point in history,
including misdemeanor charges.
And so I would not only vote no on
this bill, I would urge my colleagues to vote
no on this bill and really encourage all of us
to look down the road of where are we going if
3008
we're going to move the relationship between
Social Services, government assistance, and
our criminal justice system to such a tight
computer-match point that we may in fact
prevent anyone from ever seeking any
assistance from government.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President. On the bill.
As I continued to listen to debate,
I did come up with yet another horrible
consequence, potential consequence of this
legislation. And that would include whether
or not the bill says that while a mother might
not be able to get benefits, the children
could be able to get benefits.
But, for instance, in a case where
a family gets rental assistance, that's
through the custodial parent's case, Social
Services case. And so if she is denied her
benefits because she may have an outstanding
warrant on a misdemeanor, which I think is
really just not -- could be just not showing
3009
up for a desk appearance ticket -- then the
whole family could potentially be evicted from
their home because it's her case that's before
the Social Service agencies.
And I just want to reiterate the
slippery-slope element of this. You know, I
personally have been arrested, although I have
to assure my colleagues I have always been not
guilty. But I've had the experience of a desk
appearance ticket where I've actually appeared
and gotten an acquittal contemplating -
adjournment contemplating dismissal and not
having that be wiped off my record, and I've
seen it happen to other people as well.
So would that mean if I went to the
New York City Division of AIDS Services if I
needed assistance, then I wouldn't be able to
get that assistance?
But forget about me. More
importantly, if we followed this line of
thinking, supposing someone who had been
injured in the World Trade Center attack went
to get workers' compensation but several
months earlier had been caught drinking out of
an open liquor container and had neglected to
3010
go to court to take care of their desk
appearance ticket. Then, if we follow this
line of thinking about public benefits
shouldn't go to people who have an outstanding
desk appearance ticket or a warrant, then
potentially that person would be unable to get
their workers' compensation.
Now, I know the bill doesn't do
that. And I know that -- I don't believe that
that's in the law now, although I've never
gotten that -- well, I won't go there either.
But if you follow this line of reasoning and
if you think every citizen should be treated
the same in New York under the law, then this
could perhaps have devastating impacts.
So on the basis of it's poor public
policy -- and this particular piece of
legislation is really discriminatory law
against poor people because, again, it assumes
that poor people are more likely to commit a
crime -- I really strenuously have to urge my
colleagues to vote no on this bill.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Marcellino.
3011
SENATOR MARCELLINO: On the bill,
Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Marcellino, on the bill.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Listening to
this debate -- and it is extremely
interesting. And I wasn't going to speak. My
colleague was handling it extremely well, and
still does. On the issue, he's very learned.
However, I just can't help it.
When you talk about someone getting
public assistance and saying it is their
money, their right -- it is their right
because the people of this state have said
okay to it. It is the people's money of this
state. It is not their money. They're going
to the people and saying: Can we have your
help, we need your help in a period of time.
And the people have said, in their kindness,
Yes, we'll give you assistance.
Now, for that assistance, should
they not obey the law? An outstanding
misdemeanor bench warrant doesn't seem to me
to be the worst thing in the world. All you
have to do is appear and settle the issue. In
3012
fact, if you haven't appeared, you are fleeing
because you haven't appeared. That's a
disrespectful statement. You've said to the
law, you know, thumb your nose. I don't have
to show up, I'm allowed to do as I'm please.
We're not talking about civil
disobedience, which is what I'm sure Senator
Duane was talking about. Civil disobedience I
can understand, dealing with an issue. That's
a methodology. That's fine. But he at least
dealt with the issue. He appeared.
Why couldn't someone who is looking
for the public's help show respect for the
people's rules and the people's laws and just
appear? That's all they're being told to do.
This is no great shakes. We're not talking
about the FBI doing a major search, reaching
into background checks and all that nonsense.
But you are asking for public help, with
public money.
That is not an inherent right in
the constitution of this state or the
Constitution of the United States, to my
knowledge. The people of this country and the
people of this state have said: We will do
3013
this for you. However, there are some rules.
One of those rules, in my mind, obey the laws.
I'll be voting aye on this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Madam
President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman, on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I hear my
colleague Senator Marcellino.
I think that the difficulty some of
us have with this bill is that in reality
there are lots of recipients of public funds
who are not held accountable. Most of the
public funds that are distributed in our
country go to benefit the wealthy and
powerful, in fact.
And I don't think that it is fair
to single out one group and say these people
are in any way different from the rest of us,
they have obligations that other people don't.
If every corporate executive whose
corporation receives public subsidies had a
similar requirement, that would be one thing.
3014
But this is clearly a bill that singles out
one particular group of people who are
recipients of minor public benefits compared
to many others.
And I will be voting no on the
bill, and I urge everyone to do likewise.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Senator Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Yes, Madam
President. If Senator Maziarz would yield for
a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, will you yield for a question?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Surely, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR BROWN: Senator, I want
to thank you for your participation in the
debate. And I want to thank Senator Krueger
for kind of illuminating some of the nuances
of this particular piece of legislation.
One of the concerns that was raised
in my mind when Senator Krueger was
3015
questioning Senator Maziarz and he was
responding was in the case of a parent who has
a situation where they're considered fleeing
and they have dependent children who,
unfortunately, are reliant on Social Services
benefits. The children are the recipients,
and the parent is the individual that is
fleeing and would be the individual that would
apply for the benefits for their children.
In a case like that -- through you,
Madam President -- would that prevent the
children from receiving Social Service
benefits?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Madam
President, no. If the children are the
recipients, it would not prevent them from
getting the benefit, Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Yes, Madam
President, through you, if Senator Maziarz
would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Maziarz, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Madam
3016
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR BROWN: I'm still
concerned, Senator Maziarz, because if the
parent is the applicant and the parent, under
this legislation, is considered someone who is
fleeing, would that not prevent the parent
from applying for benefits for their minor
children?
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Through you,
Madam President. Senator, I think what it
would force the parent to do would be to go in
and to resolve the criminal justice issue that
they have facing them.
SENATOR BROWN: That resolves it
for me. Thank you, Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
Senator.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
3017
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 895 are
Senators Andrews, Brown, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Mendez,
Montgomery, Santiago, Schneiderman, A. Smith,
M. Smith, and Stavisky. Ayes, 47. Nays, 13.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
can we please take up Calendar Number 889.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read 889.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
889, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3775,
an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation
to personal interviews by the Board of Parole.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take -
3018
SENATOR BROWN: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President and my colleagues, this measure was
introduced at the request of the New York
State Division of Parole, and amends
Paragraph A, subdivision 2 of the Executive
Law and allows the use of teleconferencing as
a method of conducting interviews for parole
hearings.
It takes a high-tech tool -- that
frankly isn't high-tech anymore -- and allows
the Parole Board to utilize teleconferencing
as a way to cut costs for the board, as
opposed to having the enormous travel costs
associated with bringing the board to each
prison location across the state.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Madam President,
on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane, on the bill.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
3019
I continue to oppose the
videoconferencing of Parole Board hearings.
I've heard that winters in western New York
are, you know, terrible and that parole
officers don't want to go and get stuck in
snow or be cold or whatever the reasons are.
But I think that they get paid a good amount
of money to actually go to facilities and that
incarcerated people who are up for parole
deserve the right to be heard in person.
This is a quasi-judicial
proceeding. We do not do these kinds of
proceedings by videoconferencing in court
cases. I think that members of the Parole
Board should go interface personally with an
incarcerated person.
I think that there's a reason why
people meet in person. I think that it
changes the dynamics, and I think it changes
the way people listen and talk with each
other.
I've made the argument that if
video conferencing should be used in that
setting, then why is it that we even meet with
each other? We could just all go to a state
3020
office building and meet by videoconferencing.
But you know that that -- not that the way we
legislate now is so terribly effective, but I
think it would be far worse if we were doing
it by videoconferencing.
There's something that happens when
human beings are actually in each other's
presence, communicate with each other. And I
think that incarcerated people in the State of
New York are entitled to have the same ability
to interface on a personal level with the
Parole board.
So I will be voting no on this
legislation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
3021
the negative on Calendar Number 889 are
Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, and
Montgomery. Ayes, 58. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Madam
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the affirmative on Calendar 977.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, so recorded.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
can we please take up Calendar Number 944.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
944, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7359, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
coverage.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle, an explanation has been requested.
3022
SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you,
Madam President.
Madam President, this is the fourth
time that we have brought before this body
legislation that would require commercial
health insurance plans to provide coverage for
infertility.
This bill is significantly
different from the three prior bills that have
been brought before this body. This bill is
narrower in its scope and what it attempts to
do.
I must start, at the onset, by
saying a word of thanks to our Majority
Leader, his counsel, Caron O'Brien-Crummey, my
counsel, Mike Kinum, and Senator Leibell's
counsel, Robert Farley, for having invested,
over a long period of time, a lot of energy in
trying to find a solution that would meet the
objectives of the various stakeholders.
This bill requires commercial
health insurance plans to provide coverage for
diagnostic tests and procedures, certain
surgical and medical procedures, as well as
for prescription drugs necessitated to treat
3023
infertility.
Infertility, again, is a condition
of the reproductive system; couples have been
unable to achieve conception after one year of
unprotected, well-timed intercourse. And that
would change to six months where the woman is
age 35 or over or a woman is unable to carry a
pregnancy to live birth.
We know that infertility problems,
as we ascribe a percentage to the male or
female, is 40 percent problems due to female
factors, 40 percent to male factors, and then
the balance due to either a combined or
unknown factors. The majority of couples can
be helped through conventional fertility
treatments, and then there would be no need to
proceed to advanced reproductive technologies.
Conventional infertility treatments
include -- and we went through, in the last
debate, myself and Senator Dollinger, we
talked about a level of how -- what people
would go through before they would enter the
in vitro fertilization that is not included in
this bill.
This bill covers treatments of
3024
hormone therapy where fertility is achieved
through medication, surgical procedures to
correct a physical blockage, or a structural
problem in the reproductive organs. Or,
lastly, intrauterine insemination.
We again -- and the most important
thing in trying to work out stakeholder
concerns -- would go to this level that deals
with the vast majority of cases that cause
problems of infertility. And we never get
to -- if those of you would remember the
debate between Senator -- exchange, rather,
between Senator Dollinger and myself, we
really never reached the last and most costly,
most costly level of the in vitro
fertilization.
That basically is it. And I
certainly will answer any questions, Madam
President, that any of the members have.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Madam President. If Senator LaValle will
yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
3025
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: We had a -- I
think you properly described it as a
discussion about a number of the implications
of covering more extensive fertility coverage
in the last bill.
As my first question, do you have
any assessment, Senator LaValle, of what the
cost of the pharmacological treatment under
this bill would be for -- in an average case,
what the anticipated cost would be?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, the
first thing that we want to, in talking about
the cost issue -- and this is something that
you and I had talked about previously. But
for the members, that the coverage may be
subject to the annual copayments, coinsurance,
and deductibles as may be deemed appropriate
by the Superintendent of Insurance.
So that goes to an issue in the
various health plans that we go to the normal
cost, as I had indicated, of the copayment and
the deductibles.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
3026
Mr. President, if Senator LaValle will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But the
pharmacological treatment for infertility is
nonetheless rather expensive. The drugs that
are utilized in that treatment have to be
taken monthly and can run from $700 to $800 to
$900 to $1000 a month. Is that a fair
statement?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator,
obviously that could be a scenario.
But as you well know, or would
imagine, that this will vary from couple to
couple. So that you could have literally a
very minimal cost and then, in those that have
more complex problems, maybe the numbers that
you throw out would be applicable.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, if Senator LaValle will
continue to yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
3027
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the
efficacy of the pharmacological treatment for
infertility?
Remember when you and I discussed
in vitro fertilization, for example, you -- I
think the number that you told me in response
to my question was that about 27 percent, only
in about 27 percent of the instances in which
IVF occurs does conception actually occur.
And my question is, again, as part
of evaluating something where we're going to
mandate insurance coverage, the question is in
how many of these cases, what percentage of
these cases over what period of time does
conception occur as a result of the
pharmacological treatment.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, there
are -- I think we have to kind of back up a
little bit, because we need to talk in a broad
sense of the factors that -- we talked about
the copayments. We did not talk about that
this has to be part of a physician's plan of
treatment. We did not talk about that there
3028
must be a 12-month prior coverage period. We
did not talk about the limitations in terms of
age that this applies to individuals, an age
requirement ranging from 21 to 44.
And you and I can -- I mean, I
can't talk about courses of treatment, because
they vary. But the most important thing that
I can say, you had ascribed the number of
prescription drugs being as high as $800 or
$900. We can even move it to a thousand
dollars.
Whenever you look at the bottom
line, and that's what you're concerned about,
you should be, I would imagine, concerned
about two things. One is what is the overall
cost of premium to those policyholders. And,
number two, whether this moves in a direction
of having the uninsured pool grow even larger.
You will recall that in each of the
debates, I said that both Senator Bruno and
myself started with two imperatives. One, we
wanted to deal with a problem that a
significant number of couples are having. But
in our enthusiasm to solve that problem, we
did not want to create another problem of
3029
increasing the uninsured. We did not want to
create another problem of seeing premiums jump
up dramatically.
Now, based on evidence that we
have -- and both sides of this issue, both the
proponents and the opponents, could bring to
the forum various statistics to make their
case. I bring, based on Massachusetts' model,
that a cost per month covering all infertility
services, all -- and we don't do that in this
bill; we are not providing the in vitro -- was
$1.71 a month.
I also go to looking at the issue
of the uninsured and using NCSL figures,
taking two different states, Idaho, that had
the fewest number of mandated benefits, at
six, but ended up having the 12th highest
percentage of uninsured. Minnesota and
Pennsylvania, being at the top, with ten, of
the most mandates, but are among the ten
states with the lowest uninsured population.
So obviously I like those numbers,
Senator Dollinger. They're NCSL numbers,
looking across the country and looking at both
issues of cost per month in terms of the
3030
premium and, number two, looking at what is
the effect, are we going to have an effect of
creating a larger uninsured population, which
no member in this Legislature wants to do.
And we believe we have been very,
very sensitive in trying to carve out narrowly
the procedures that a physician could
prescribe, both physical and prescription, in
dealing with the infertility problems.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, if Senator LaValle will
continue to yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, do
you know, based on the population in New York,
based on any type of study or evaluation of
the pool of potential users of this
pharmacological therapy, do you know in
New York what the impact would be on premiums
here in this state?
SENATOR LAVALLE: I will use the
Empire Plan, that on its own initiative
included infertility treatments.
3031
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Of the
pharmacological variety, we're talking about?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Across the
board. Across the board.
And I am told -- and I just checked
again with counsel -- that there has been no
increase in premium due to those provisions
that were included dealing with infertility.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. We'll
put that aside for a second.
Senator LaValle, you mentioned the
age requirement in this bill. This bill
contains an age requirement that says you're
eligible if you're between 21 and 44; correct?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, if Senator LaValle will
continue to yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm
enormously intrigued, however, by the caveat
that follows that restriction. Because what
it says is there is an age restriction;
3032
however, nothing shall preclude the provisions
of coverage to persons whose age is below or
above that.
Doesn't that mean, in essence, that
the age requirement has no meaning?
SENATOR LAVALLE: No, Senator.
And I thought you were going to go in a
different direction, and I was going to bring
your attention to those provisions.
Because, as I've indicated, there
is no cookie-cutter modality of treatment for
everyone. There could be, could be situations
that become atypical. Would we as a
Legislature want to preclude those situations
from not receiving coverage? They could be -
I mean, I can't even conceive of it, but I'm
sure there will be some very bizarre set of
circumstances beyond that particular age.
Now, Senator, I think we have to be
a little realistic here. I think, as a matter
of practice, when you reach certain age
limits, to 44, you are really probably talking
about those cases beyond 44 being quite de
minimis. Really, realistically.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I -
3033
SENATOR LAVALLE: I mean, to not,
as they would say, not hurt anything.
We're not talking, I would not
believe, a lot of cases. And certainly in the
future, with medical technology, maybe those
numbers will increase. But right now, I think
they -- I mean, someone could quantify them
and I'm sure it would not make any difference
in terms of increasing one's premium.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again,
through you, Madam President, if Senator
LaValle will continue to yield.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But in
essence what you have, Senator, you have a
provision that says there's an age limit but
if you need treatment either above or below
that age limit, nothing will preclude you from
getting those treatments.
Is that correct, is that the way to
read the language?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
But here's another point, just
3034
to -- what if a particular plan, on their own,
says, Well, we'll provide it beyond age 44.
We would allow that particular plan, I
believe -- is that correct? Yes, I'm being
told I'm right -- from providing that.
We're not mandating anyone to -
except in these situations I talked about.
But if a provider wishes to go higher or make
that decision, they can. And I believe we
should do that, we should allow that.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, if Senator LaValle will
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, I would
love to.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator continues to yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: But they
could do that now. They don't need anything
in this statute to freely create an
infertility mandate. In fact, they could do
much more than this bill talks about. Blue
Cross and Blue Shield could put an IVF in
3035
place that could be available to anybody under
age 100.
I mean, I agree with you that
currently an insurer could do this. I'm just
not sure I understand what the language says
when you say there's an age limitation, when
it says that -- this bill seems to suggest
that anybody can get the treatment any time
they need it.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, we
have to be, as lawmakers, very careful in our
draftsmanship that we do not preclude any
actions. I believe this language allows a
wide enough berth to allow the insurance
providers to move freely in terms of the age
requirement. We don't want to preclude anyone
from an action they would like to take.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, just one more question for
Senator LaValle, if he will.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle, will you yield for one more question?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
3036
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just want
to go back to the efficacy of the treatment.
When we talked about IVF, you had indicated
there were scientific studies that showed -- I
believe the number was 26, 27, 28 percent of
the treatments resulted in conception.
My question to you is, how -
following a pharmacological therapy -- and I
know, Senator LaValle, that there is no simple
model for this, given the potential
complexities of these problems. But how much
or how long would you expect someone to be on
a pharmacological treatment before conception
occurred?
In other words, how much of the
resources available under this mandate are
going to have to draw down to get to the goal?
Because when we talked about IVF, my concern
was that if it only works once every four
times and it costs $10,000 a try, it means
that you've got to spend $40,000 to have it
work.
My question is, do you have any
study that suggests how much of this
pharmacological treatment people are going to
3037
have to use in order to reach the point of
conception? How much will it cost us?
SENATOR LAVALLE: The only way I
can answer that, Senator, is that we know that
without any help, just through natural means,
the baseline is 25 percent. Once we start
using drugs, that percentage just goes up.
And I can't tell you where -- I
can't tell you whether we go up to 60 percent.
You know, you have -- and you would like to
pigeonhole this, and unfortunately in some
cases you have to use a combination of
modalities, both surgical or -- you would use
pharmacological first, and then move to -- or
maybe in combination, to remove basic
obstructions that have taken place.
So I'm not trying to dodge your
question, but I don't believe you can neatly
put percentages. But what I am saying is the
studies certainly show that the success rate
jumps, shows empirically -- I don't have that
data, I don't know what it is. But it
certainly does go up in terms of its success.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Madam
President, on the bill.
3038
And I want to thank Senator
LaValle, as -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: As we had the
last time we talked about infertility in this
chamber, I appreciate not only Senator
LaValle's advocacy on this issue, but his
candor and, quite frankly, his understanding
of the balancing of the many factors that go
into trying to determine whether a mandate of
this scope, of this potential cost, is the
right thing to do in the state of New York.
I'm going to vote against this bill
Madam President. I voted against the
infertility bill when it included the IVF
procedure because I thought it did -- it
failed to meet what I think is the test that
we ought to apply in cases of every single
mandate.
And that is, how many people
benefit from it, what's the cost of the
individual treatment, and how good is the
science that suggests when we utilize the
treatment it will result in the beneficial
3039
improvement of health or the beneficial life
improvement that we seek through the mandate?
I compared, when we did the last
infertility bill, that contraception mandate
with the in vitro fertilization mandate, and
it was no contest. The number of people that
would benefit from it was greater; the cost
was much less. And quite frankly, the
efficacy of contraception, the use of the
birth control pill, was so much better than
the one-in-four chance that occurred with in
vitro fertilization.
It seems to me, Senator LaValle,
that that same burden has to be applied to
this legislation. And unfortunately, from my
perspective, it also fails.
The cost of the treatments, the
pharmacological treatments, can be very, very
expensive on a month-to-month basis. At least
to my knowledge and understanding, those
treatments can start in the $600 range a month
and can run as high as $1,200 to $1,400 a
month. That is an enormous cost during the
period of a woman's peak period of fertility.
I mean, if you assume it's from age 24 to age
3040
35, that's an 11-year period. That's 132
months in which we're spending $1,000 a month
to achieve conception.
Two, Senator LaValle, I think that
the one thing that disturbs me about this is
that there's not necessarily -- I haven't
heard today an articulation of the science
that says once you start the pharmacological
therapy it is effective after a certain period
of time. What I understood you to say was
that it does significantly raise the
probability of conception. So if the normal
couple faces a 25 percent chance, these drugs
will substantially increase that to 40, 50,
60 percent.
The difficulty is, Senator LaValle,
these drugs are prescribed to people for whom
the chance is very, very small. That's the
problem of infertility, is that they have a
very small chance of conception. And so when
the drugs substantially increase it three- or
fourfold, it seems to me we're only increasing
it to a very modest number.
And from my point of view, that
very significant cost with a very modest
3041
increase in the probability of conception,
when you take the cost and the efficacy and
you are still stuck with the fact that we
talked about when we debated this bill last
time -- which is unfortunately, or perhaps
fortunately, however you wish to phrase it,
the difficulties in conception and infertility
still only affect a relatively small portion
of the population -- so when you throw all
those factors together, you have something
that we can't define the cost.
We took out of the last bill -- at
least as I recall, Senator LaValle -- the
$60,000 cap on pharmacological costs, so we've
taken the cap off. We don't have a good idea
of what the science will produce. We have a
potential for an open-ended, very expensive
process, and we don't know how much
scientifically it's going to increase
conception.
And I think, when you put all those
together -- I am frankly astounded by the
Massachusetts model of $1.71 a month. I would
find it difficult to conceive that it's only
that cost. I think it's much greater than
3042
that if these drugs are what they -- at least
my knowledge suggests they cost.
When you roll it all together, it's
very expensive, it has a science that I think
is undefinable. And I will acknowledge,
Senator, given where people start, it's very,
very difficult to calculate that. Because you
can't oftentimes, until you've spent a lot of
money, figure out exactly what the reason for
lack of conception is.
But I think when you put it all
together, Senator LaValle, I still think it's
way too expensive. I think it's the kind of
mandate that will in the long run, as we
saddle our insurance system with more and more
mandates, frankly, it just drives up the cost.
I think that the long-term benefit for
New York is not sufficient to justify the
expense.
For those circumstances, Madam
President, I'll vote in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes, Madam
President, on the bill.
3043
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Lachman, on the bill.
SENATOR LACHMAN: I will be
voting yes on this compromise bill.
It is not the same bill that I
introduced in these chambers six years ago
that never got out of committee, but it is an
honest effort at compromise.
I want to particularly thank the
American Infertility Association, Agudath
Israel of America, and RESOLVE for not giving
up over six years and finally agreeing to a
compromise that does not necessarily give
everyone everything but gives everyone
something.
Now, I also want to thank Senator
LaValle and Senator Bruno for working with
these groups and bringing this bill to the
floor today.
Let's cut to the chase. Certain
questions were asked. One in six couples
cannot conceive who want children. Now, this
adds up to 6 million Americans who want to
have children and cannot conceive. Two-thirds
of all couples who receive treatment,
3044
infertility treatment, two-thirds of all
couples can conceive.
Now, only 5 to 10 percent of
couples who cannot conceive need drugs for
infertility. So we have over 90 percent, over
90 percent of Americans who cannot conceive
being able to conceive without IVF measures.
Even though that was in my original bill.
In terms of the cost that has been
raised, some academic friends of mine -- and
academic studies, as I should know, are always
finite and cannot always be believed -- did a
study of almost 20 states that have various
types of infertility bills. And there are
various types of infertility bills, ranging
from the Massachusetts version, which is very
liberal, to the one that was adopted in
New Jersey last year that is sort of centrist,
and our bill, which is more conservative. And
they found that it would only increase the
insurance policy by less than $3 a year.
Of course, that's $3 additional.
But when you think of the reverence for life
that this could create, and that 6 million
Americans want to conceive -- one in six
3045
couples -- and cannot conceive, then I have to
go with this compromise bill that is before
the Senate today.
It's not everything I wanted. It's
not everything, I'm sure, that many people in
this chamber wanted. But it's the best
possible bill that we could get at this time.
And I vote yea.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
Madam President.
I rise in support of the bill. I
want to congratulate Senator LaValle for all
the hard work he has done on this bill to
reach this point where we have a bill that has
a strong possibility of becoming law and
passing in the other house, the Assembly.
This has been a long and tough road
for the Senator and others who worked on this
bill. It has been difficult to bring the
parties together to come up with a compromise
that Senator Lachman speaks of that will make
this bill viable, will help so many families,
3046
so many people who want to start their
families in a way that does not abuse anyone's
religious beliefs.
As the father of a daughter who
went through the process, I know the
difficulties and the anguish young people face
in trying to start a family. And I just wish
this bill had been in place at that particular
time.
But I'm delighted today that we
have a bill that we all can stand behind in
good conscience, recognizing, as I said on
this floor several times before, there is no
such thing as a perfect bill. There's no bill
that meets everyone's requirements. There's
no such thing because we are a diverse
community. We are upstate, downstate,
midstate, all around the state people. And
therefore, all of our constituents may have
different feelings about different issues.
And we have different political philosophies.
So there's no perfect bill. But
this becomes one that is passable, that will
do a major portion of the work that we want it
to do.
3047
And again, I congratulate Senator
LaValle.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Oppenheimer.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I
think Senator Onorato just gave us the
answer -- oh, on the bill -- of the perfect
bill. The perfect bill would say that the
New York State Senators are going to get their
pay. Perfect bill. But I owed that to him.
I would say that the good and the
bad news is the same on this bill, and that's
what we've been hearing from the prior
statements. The bad news seems to me to be
that the -- what are sometimes the most
helpful possibilities for producing fertility
are excluded. So that's one side.
The other side, you could say, is
that therefore the cost is going to be held
down for all the citizens who have insurance.
And we know a lot of people have difficulty
affording to pay for their insurance.
On the other hand, you could say:
Well, it's really not so helpful because it's
3048
not offering the most advanced possible way to
pursue this.
And on the other hand, you say how
can you not approve something, prescription
drugs for infertility, which is really the
main thing that this bill is going to attack.
And I would say that that is why I'm going to
vote yes. And I'm going to vote yes because I
feel strongly that the prescription drug
coverage for infertility should be there.
However, I feel even more important
would be drug coverage for contraception. And
I hope we can deal with it in a similar manner
that we're dealing with this bill, trying to
weigh both sides, trying to come to some
common ground. Because there are so many more
women and spouses and partners who are seeking
some assistance in paying for the cost of this
coverage. And it's so vastly less expensive.
And the fact is that women are now
spending something like 63 percent more
out-of-pocket than men are because of the cost
of contraception.
So I think we have to -- if we're
going deal with this, and I'm quite willing to
3049
vote yes on this, I feel we have to deal
fairly with the other issue. And I certainly
hope we're going to during the course of the
next month.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
Senator LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Madam
President, I rise to explain my vote.
I'm certainly disappointed -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle, we're not on the roll call yet. Just
one minute.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect July 1.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Madam
President, I'm sorry that my colleague Senator
Dollinger got lost in a labyrinth of his own
verbosity on this bill. He has asked very
3050
good questions and I thought, as we answered
them, moved to a point that he could support
the bill.
The fact of the matter is that this
bill, as some of the senators who rose said,
it is a balancing act in which we are trying
to weigh cost and yet provide something very
important to one out of six couples who have a
problem. If there is anything that is more
sacred, regardless of religion, it's
procreation: making a family, creating a
family. That is so important.
I would hope that this and many
other bills that require insurance coverage
meet the important needs of the public, of our
citizens. I respect, I respect Senator
Dollinger and any other member who feels, in a
philosophical or in a real way, that mandates
provide some sort of problem to either the
insurance company or the uninsured poor. I
respect that. I do not challenge it. And I
certainly respect our colleague Senator
Dollinger for asking these questions, and -
but we disagree.
I would hope that members could
3051
support this because it is a public policy
that meets a very important need of families
and individuals that want to start families.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery, to explain your vote?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, to
explain my vote, Madam President.
I certainly intend to vote yes on
this legislation. But I would like to, just
for the record, remind my colleagues that we
do have a growing number of people who are not
necessarily uninsured. Many of them are
uninsured, but many of them are paying
exorbitant, exorbitantly high rates for their
insurance because they work for themselves or
they work for very small firms.
They are professionals, young
people not eligible for coverage under any
plan, and therefore are having to pay for
their own private insurance. And their costs
are going up.
And many of them are not covered
because they can't afford to pay for it.
So I know that this is important,
3052
but we also have to consider the large number
of people who have no insurance. And the
primary reason for them not having it is
because it costs -- the cost goes up quite
incrementally as we add these kinds of
services and requirements.
So I'm voting yes, but I certainly
hope that we can begin to address the large
segment of our population that is uncovered
because the costs have gone up.
Thank you. I vote yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 944 are
Senators Breslin, Dollinger, Kuhl, McGee,
Meier, Seward, Stachowski, and Wright. Ayes,
53. Nays, 8.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
can we take up Calendar Number 878. Thank
you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
3053
Secretary will read Calendar 878.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
878, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 6942, an
act to adjust certain state aid payments.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Meier, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR MEIER: Thank you.
A State Education Department audit
revealed that the Sherrill School District
received an overpayment of approximately
$189,000 in business aid. This bill would
permit them, Madam President, to repay that
amount over a period of six years.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Rath.
3054
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
can we please take up Calendar Number 934.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 934.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
934, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4634A, an
act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
annual reporting requirements.
SENATOR DUANE: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
President.
This bill is intended to update the
Banking Department's annual report and make it
more useful and informative.
Among the major changes made here
by this bill are these. It adds information
on banking institutions which are newly
created, which have merged, which have changed
their charter. It includes information on any
foreign or other banking entity which are
closed during the year. It adds information
about receipts and disbursements from money
transmitter insurance funds.
3055
And it deletes information on the
ATM safety variances from the annual report.
Instead, this information will be included in
a separate ATM safety report which is
submitted each January to the Legislature.
And it's more appropriate to include this
information in the ATM report than it is in
the annual report.
Basically, that's it. It's kind of
bringing it up to speed.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Madam President, if Senator Farley will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley, will you yield?
SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think I
raised this question last year, Senator
Farley, but I can't quite find it in the text
of the bill.
This eliminates the requirement
that the deputies and the special deputies in
3056
the banking department have their salaries
published; is that correct?
SENATOR FARLEY: That is correct.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay.
Through you, Madam President, just briefly on
the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I voted
against this on that basis last year, because
I believe that the public ought to know not
only what the commissioner is paid but what
all the deputies are paid. These are all
people who have positions of power and
influence in the banking industry in this
state. I think the taxpayers should know what
they're paying these people as salaries.
I think it was a legitimate public
policy reason articulated when they put it in
statute. I think it's still something for the
good of the public and for their knowledge of
their tax dollars are going to be used for. I
suggest we keep it, Madam President.
And I'm going to vote against it on
that basis.
3057
SENATOR FARLEY: I understand
your concern, Senator. And incidentally, this
is the only state agency that has that
requirement. They are listed elsewhere, their
salaries.
And your point is well taken. But
what am I going to say? It is part of the
bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
3. Senators Dollinger, Duane, and
Hassell-Thompson recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 934, also Senator A. Smith.
3058
Ayes, 57. Nays, 4.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
could we please return to reports of standing
committees.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack,
from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the
following bill:
Senate Print 4643B, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the General
Obligations Law.
Senator Leibell, from the Committee
on Civil Service and Pensions, reports:
Senate Print 1345B, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the Retirement and
Social Security Law;
1438A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
1544A, by Senator Maltese, an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
Law;
3059
2033A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
2176A, by Senator Velella, an act
to amend the Administrative Code of the City
of New York;
2400A, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law.
2849A, by Senator Saland, an act to
authorize;
3245, by Senator Leibell, an act to
allow;
3252, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
3302, by Senator Trunzo, an act in
relation;
3454, by Senator LaValle, an act to
provide;
3729A, by Senator Stafford, an act
in relation;
3738A, by Senator Stafford, an act
to authorize;
4032A, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend;
4511B, by Senator Johnson, an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
3060
Law;
4603C, by Senator Johnson, an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
Law;
4820, by Senator Oppenheimer, an
act authorizing;
4826, by Senator Oppenheimer, an
act allowing;
5089A, by Senator Leibell, an act
to amend;
5096, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the Administrative Code of the City of
New York;
5283, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
5286, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
5542A, by Senator Marcellino, an
act to amend the Education Law;
5662A, by Senator Saland, an act
providing;
5774A, by Senator Seward, an act to
authorize;
5852B, by Senator Maltese, an act
to amend;
3061
6101, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
6152, by Senator M. Smith, an act
to authorize;
6204, by Senator Volker, an act
authorizing;
6272, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend;
6277, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
6288A, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend Chapter 501;
6313, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
6316, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend the Civil Service Law;
6325, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
6472, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Administrative Code of the City of
New York;
6473A, by Senator Maltese, an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
Law;
6690, by Senator Stafford, an act
3062
authorizing;
6762, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
6780, by Senator Marchi, an act
relating;
6855, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
7154, by Senator Stafford, an act
authorizing;
7165, by Senator Volker, an act in
relation;
7209, by Senator Johnson, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
And Senate Print 7270, by Senator
Hoffmann, an act to establish.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills are ordered directly to
third reading.
Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
Madam President. I'd like unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 944.
3063
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, so noted.
Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
can we please take up Calendar Number 855.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
855, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 136A, an
act to amend the Penal Law and the Vehicle and
Traffic Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: May I
explain my vote?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes.
Senator Montgomery, to explain her
3064
vote.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
President, I'm going to vote no on this
legislation.
I know that it talks about
endangering the welfare of a child. But
it's -- as it states in the memo, and I think
it's another indication of a practice that we
do very often here, and that is it says the
crime of endangering the welfare of a child
applies to a wide variety of acts which range
from very minor offenses or minor activities
to very, very serious ones.
So there is no balance between what
is not really serious and what is extremely
serious, and therefore everything is treated
the same, with the same consequence. And it
has a fairly serious criminal charge
associated with it.
So I'm going to vote no for that
reason.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. Nays,
3065
1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes.
Just one minute, please.
Senator Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Madam
President.
On behalf of Senator Larkin, on
page number 53, I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 917, Senate
Print Number 6497, and ask that said bill
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted. The bill
will retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk, Madam President?
3066
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There is
no further housekeeping.
SENATOR RATH: There being no
further business, I move we adjourn until
Wednesday, May 8th, at 11:00 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Wednesday, May 8th, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 5:24 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)