Regular Session - May 8, 2002
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NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 8, 2002
11:11 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask everyone present to rise and
recite with me the Pledge of Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: In the
absence of clergy, would everyone bow our
heads and we'll have a moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Tuesday, May 7, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May 6,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
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Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan,
from the Committee on Veterans and Military
Affairs, reports:
Senate Print 6630, by Senator
Larkin, an act to amend the Vehicle and
Traffic Law.
Senator Lack, from the Committee on
Judiciary, reports:
Senate Print 4090, by Senator Lack,
an act to amend the Real Property Law.
Senator Leibell, from the Committee
on Civil Service and Pensions, reports:
Senate Print 7367, by Senator
Maltese, an act to amend the General Municipal
Law.
Also, from the Committee on
Elections, Senator Maltese reports:
Senate Print 1020, by Senator Lack,
an act to amend the Election Law;
1040, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Election Law;
2504A, by Senator Mendez, an act to
amend the Election Law;
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2887A, by Senator Maltese, an act
to amend the Election Law;
3888, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Election Law;
3889, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Election Law;
And 6747, by Senator Maltese, an
act to amend the Election Law.
Senator Farley, from the Committee
on Banks, reports:
Senate Print 3391, with amendments,
by Senator Alesi, an act to amend the Banking
Law;
3791B, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
4635, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
5571, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
And 6514, by Senator Farley, an act
to amend Banking Law.
Senator LaValle, from the Committee
on Higher Education, reports:
Senate Print 1363, by Senator Kuhl,
an act to amend the Education Law;
3071
2356, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
4021, by Senator Balboni, an act to
amend the Education Law;
4287, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
5334, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend Chapter 576 of the Laws of 1975;
5470A, by Senator LaValle, an act
to amend the Education Law;
6138, by Senator Maltese, an act to
amend the Election Law;
6284, by Senator McGee, an act to
amend the Election Law;
6602, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend the Education Law;
6614, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
6822, by Senator Espada, an act to
amend the Education Law;
7064, by Senator LaValle, an act in
relation to authorizing;
7065, by Senator LaValle, an act to
amend the Education Law;
7121, by Senator Rath, an act to
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amend the Education Law;
2951A, by Senator Velella, an act
to amend the Education Law;
And Senate Print 7147, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law and
the Public Health Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: You're welcome.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Amendments
are offered to the following Third Reading
Calendar bills.
Sponsored by Senator Marcellino,
page number 56, Calendar Number 964, Senate
Print Number 4164A.
3073
By Senator Bonacic, page number 61,
Calendar Number 1016, Senate Print Number
6502A.
By Senator Marcellino, page number
70, Calendar Number 1102, Senate Print Number
4755C.
By Senator Leibell, page number 72,
Calendar Number 1125, Senate Print Number
3245.
By Senator Leibell, page number 73,
Calendar Number 1139, Senate Print Number
5286.
And by Senator Johnson, page number
78, Calendar Number 1161, Senate Print Number
7209.
I now move that these bills retain
their place on the order of Third Reading
Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, Senator, and the bills will
retain their place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
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Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On behalf of
Senator Espada, I move that the following bill
on the order of third reading be recommitted
to the Committee on Higher Education: Senate
Print Number 6680, Calendar Number 1074.
THE PRESIDENT: So ordered,
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
I believe there are some substitutions at the
desk. If we could make them at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 56,
Senator Spano moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Consumer Protection, Assembly
Bill Number 5973B and substitute it for the
identical Senate Bill Number 4697C, Third
Reading Calendar 966.
On page 57, Senator Kuhl moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Consumer
Protection, Assembly Bill Number 9980 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
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Number 6332, Third Reading Calendar 970.
On page 57, Senator Hannon moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Social
Services, Assembly Bill Number 4386 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 2821, Third Reading Calendar 979.
On page 58, Senator Hoffmann moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,
Assembly Bill Number 10454 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6607,
Third Reading Calendar 990.
On page 60, Senator Spano moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Labor,
Assembly Bill Number 7001 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 4382,
Third Reading Calendar 1002.
On page 61, Senator LaValle moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Local
Government, Assembly Bill Number 860A and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6673, Third Reading Calendar 1018.
On page 63, Senator Morahan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on
Transportation, Assembly Bill Number 614A and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
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Number 1115A, Third Reading Calendar 1038.
On page 66, Senator Farley moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Veterans and
Military Affairs, Assembly Bill Number 1736
and substitute it for the identical Senate
Bill Number 3129, Third Reading Calendar 1063.
On page 66, Senator Morahan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Veterans
and Military Affairs, Assembly Bill Number
7063A and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 4739A, Third Reading
Calendar 1068.
On page 66, Senator Morahan moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Veterans
and Military Affairs, Assembly Bill Number
1687 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 6185, Third Reading
Calendar 1070.
On page 67, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Veterans
and Military Affairs, Assembly Bill Number
9917 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 6315, Third Reading
Calendar 1071.
On page 67, Senator Maltese moves
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to discharge, from the Committee on Education,
Assembly Bill Number 2782 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 443,
Third Reading Calendar 1076.
On page 70, Senator Kuhl moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Environmental
Conservation, Assembly Bill Number 10685 and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6160, Third Reading Calendar 1103.
On page 76, Senator Skelos moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Civil Service
and Pensions, Assembly Bill Number 9870A and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 6288A, Third Reading Calendar 1149.
And on page 78, Senator LaValle
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
Judiciary, Assembly Bill Number 9011B and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 4643B, Third Reading Calendar 1163.
THE PRESIDENT: Substitutions
ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
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THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
248, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4106, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
requiring consent.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
636, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5199, an
act to amend the Family Court Act and the
Executive Law, in relation to orders of
protection.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the 90th day.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
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(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
704, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3901,
an act authorizing the assessor of the County
of Nassau to accept an application.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
798, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2315, an
act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law
and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation
to exempting farm vehicles.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
3080
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
823, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6383, an
act authorizing the assessors of the Village
of Valley Stream.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
824, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6386, an
act authorizing the assessor of the County of
Nassau.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
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act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Dollinger, to explain your vote.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to
explain my vote, Madam President.
The trend continues in Nassau
County. As Senator Skelos has suggested, this
may be the last of the batch. But
unfortunately, my prediction made years ago is
coming true.
We're doing three property tax
exemptions in Nassau County. In some cases
they involve taxes over a four- or five-year
period. I have to ask, what are people doing
in Nassau County when they're not-for-profit
and a property tax bill shows up in the
office? Doesn't someone say, Gee, we
shouldn't be having to pay these?
I would suggest I've got a
solution. I've advocated for a statewide bill
for years. But I've got another solution.
This is a solution -- it's a simple one. I
would ask my five brethren from Nassau County
3082
to do this. It's very simple. Throw a little
bit of money in a member-item pot and just put
up the following sequence of signs. And it
will say: "If you're a not for profit and you
buy a piece a land, do yourself a favor, have
a property tax exemption form in hand."
Burma Shave. That simple. Let's
do it in Nassau County. We can bring back the
Burma Shave signs, little sequential signs.
It will be such a wonderful thing.
And then, Lord knows, we'll have to
figure out what to do in late April and late
May while we're waiting for a budget and we
seem to have nothing else to do except act as
the grand poo-bah of the Nassau County
reassessment system.
I'll vote no, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3083
826, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6531A, an
act to authorize the City of Saratoga Springs.
THE PRESIDENT: There's a
home-rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
842, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6399A, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
designating a portion of interstate Route 84.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
3084
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
881, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 396B, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to training requirements.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
931, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2352, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
unlawful sale.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
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(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
951, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4527,
an act to amend the Public Housing Law, in
relation to members.
SENATOR HEVESI: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1001, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4155, an
act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
limited liability companies.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
3086
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1053, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 7322,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to the use of monies.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to the controversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 42,
Calendar Number 798, by Senator Kuhl, Senate
Print 2315, an act to amend the Agriculture
and Markets Law and the Vehicle and Traffic
3087
Law, in relation to exempting.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Madam
President.
This is a proposal that would
essentially remove a mandate that was placed
on farmers back in 1994 by this Legislature
which required them to take out a secondary
insurance policy on what were termed to be
farm-plated vehicles.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, if Senator Kuhl would yield for a
question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, I'm interested in whether or not
3088
the Motor Vehicle Accident Indemnity
Corporation would provide any assistance if we
were to pass this legislation today and there
would no longer be the requirement of
insurance.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: To answer the
Senator's questions, I don't believe that
really that would be necessary. As we all
know, most farmers have a general liability
policy. The farm-plated vehicles were
previously covered under that policy and would
continue to be covered under that policy.
So any reference to the Motor
Vehicle Accident Indemnification Corporation I
don't think really is or would be necessary,
Senator.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, if the Senator would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
3089
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: These policies
quite often have exclusions whereby the
accident would not necessarily be covered. So
we don't have a -- actually, it's not even
that we don't have a problem with it. The
idea of providing the assistance for the
farm-plated vehicles so there isn't a greater
expense to the farmer is fine.
But if indeed the possibility of
there being an accident is so unlikely, then
it would seem to me that somebody should at
least provide insurance for perhaps the other
farmer or the other resident that would
potentially be injured just if, in an
extraordinary case, there was an accident.
So since it's not likely to happen,
it would seem to me to be a perfect
opportunity to provide some form of coverage.
And I guess what I'm really looking
for is the answer to where that coverage would
come from. Because I think that a lot of the
policies have exclusions, and that's why I
thought that perhaps MVAIC would provide some
assistance there.
3090
SENATOR KUHL: Senator, I never
have explored that possibility. And I
appreciate your raising the question, because
that certainly is an avenue that we'll explore
as we go further down the line.
But as you may know and may
remember -- you were here in 1994 when in fact
we passed this mandate on farmers. And it
came about as a result of new legislation from
the federal government where they were
upgrading truck standards and things of that
nature.
This was included, I think, as an
oversight. And what it essentially did was to
put every farmer who has a farm-plated vehicle
in the position now that they would have to go
and obtain a new insurance policy for each one
of these farm-plated vehicles. That was not
the case prior to 1994.
And certainly our experience is
that there virtually were no accidents with
these vehicles. I mean, these are essentially
the lawnmowers, if you will, that we all have
as homeowners, that farmers have just to allow
them to carry on their functions in the
3091
fields. And that they are on -- as you know,
farm-plated vehicles can only travel 25 miles
from their source anyway, Senator.
And so our experience is that this
was really an unnecessary mandate, because
there was no need for insurance coverage over
and above what was currently being provided
under general liability policies.
Now, let me carry it one step
farther. If you had -- and I know you
represent the New York City area, Senator, so
you don't have the luxury or the good fortune
to have many farmers in your district who have
expansive farms.
These farmers are traditionally
what they call "land poor." They have acres
and acres and acres of land that they utilize
and they pay taxes on, and really it's very
difficult for them to essentially protect all
of their assets.
One of the things -- and this goes
as just an aside in our debate here. One of
the things that we have traditionally
struggled with in this Legislature has been
the estate and gift tax laws. Because what we
3092
have found is that when farmers die and try to
leave the farm to their family, that they
leave this huge asset that they have been
working.
Okay, well, now their method of
protecting themselves is to have a general
liability policy. And certainly they're not
going to put this huge and very lucrative and
expensive asset at risk for having an accident
with a farm-plated vehicle on a highway.
Now -- and my point to you,
Senator, is that the general liability
policies are not going to have exclusions for
farm-plated vehicles. And I've never seen
one. Now, that is a potential possibility,
sure. But it's never been a liability such
that there would be significant savings on a
premium to actually exclude it.
As you know, there are some in our
general liability policies. If you're a
homeowner, I think they cover you for
something like $5,000 for expensive items like
rings or furs or guns, things of that nature.
And if you want to have coverage for those
items over and above that initial threshold,
3093
then you have to have an additional policy.
I have never heard, in any of the
discussions we have had with farmers and
people from Farm Bureau, who represent
thousands of farmers across the state, that
there have been exceptions from this general
liability. As a matter of fact, it has been
just the opposite.
And that's my point, is that they
use the general liability policy to actually
cover their exposure as a result of the very
limited transportation of these farm-plated
vehicles on the highways.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, I hope that the members who don't
have too many farms in their districts, such
as myself, appreciated the plight of the
farmer as it is today, as quite eloquently
exhibited by the remarks that Senator Kuhl
just offered us.
And it makes it very difficult to
add to the encumbrances that they feel by
making them insure each of these vehicles,
where particularly the farm-plated vehicles
are really just used to transport materials,
3094
they don't go very far from the farm, they
don't drive very quickly. And the likelihood
of any kind of accident -- as Senator Kuhl has
pointed out, I guess, nine times to the
body -- is very little.
Nonetheless, sometimes when we
regulate conduct through law, what we want to
establish is equity in the law, even if we
want to try to create a special circumstance
for situations that compel us to do so.
And so while I probably will vote
no for the bill, I really wish I could vote no
contest. Because I am very much in sympathy
with what the farmers feel and what Senator
Kuhl is averring in the discussion today.
But what I would suggest as a
solution to this is that we draft legislation
that would compel the insurance companies not
to be able to exclude, in this case, the
farm-plated vehicles from the umbrella policy
that would cover the entire farm. It would be
almost no additional cost, because nobody can
really think of the last time a farm-plated
vehicle got into an accident.
And yet at the same time, it would
3095
be in compliance with the law and would
conform to the standards that we try to set in
this chamber when we write laws such that
there would not be a situation where even in a
highly extraordinary case there was some kind
of an accident and someone who might well be
another farmer might be victimized because
somebody's teenage child took the farm-plated
vehicle out just to see what it was like and
was involved in some unfortunate accident.
So what I'm suggesting is that we
close the loophole by making an addendum to
the legislation and compelling the insurance
companies to cover this. And just by the
actuarial tables, I don't think there would be
any particular cost to the farmer that would
accrue. And at the same time, we would
accomplish the goal of really taking the
farm-plated vehicles out of the mandate that
the federal government put on farmers about a
decade ago.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Does any
other member wish to be heard on this bill?
Senator Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
3096
Madam President. If you could ask the sponsor
if he would yield to a question, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, will you yield for a question?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I am sorry that I missed previous
years' debate around this bill. I was reading
the transcripts. And I still need a little
clarification, Senator Kuhl.
You were describing the vehicles
that would be covered under this change in
liability insurance to be, to some degree,
off-road vehicles that only went 25 miles
maximum. But it's my understanding from
reading some notes, so I'd like to ask you
whether it's your understanding that I'm right
or not, that these vehicles are, by and large,
pickup trucks, dump trucks, and other trucks
used to haul farm produce, fertilizer, and
other supplies between farms, up to 25 miles
one way.
Is that your understanding of the
3097
vehicles we're talking about?
SENATOR KUHL: It could be any of
those, Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Could be
any of those?
SENATOR KUHL: Yeah. The
farm-plated vehicle has a restriction of -- a
limitation of being able to travel only 25
miles from its source. And actually, I
believe that the pattern or the plot of that
travel is actually written down when the
application for the farm plate is actually
rendered.
And it's done for very specific
reasons. And most of them are not going
25 miles; they're going from basic farm across
the road to the field to take fertilizer, or
they may be going across there to pick up
watermelons and bring them back, or something
like that. They're just vehicles that are
used in production that on a rare occasion are
traveling on the highway.
And that's why there are some
exclusions, or I should say exemptions from
some of the safety regulations that are
3098
necessary. For instance, if you're going to
have a truck who is going to -- and you're
going to be out harvesting only during the
day, is it necessary to have lights
functioning on that truck? The answer is no.
Okay?
And one of them may get broken down
or something like that in the field because of
the rough use of that in its combination with
other farm vehicles. So there are specific
regulations that exempt that vehicle from
certain types of requirements.
And also there is a very small
limitation on the travel on the highway. You
may remember that we have passed a bill in
this house that would change that slightly -
that I sponsored also -- that would allow
these vehicles to actually be driven to a
repair station so they can be repaired.
Currently, they can't. So if a
vehicle has a problem with a repair, they
actually have to take that vehicle put it on
another trailer and then drive it that way,
which gets to be very expensive and very
cumbersome for a lot of farmers when they
3099
don't necessarily have that type of equipment
to do that.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield to an additional question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
Senator, thank you for the
clarification.
I guess I'll tie this into the
liability discussion that Senator Paterson was
having. If I am hit by a dump truck or a
truck or a pickup truck carrying watermelons
less than 25 miles from the farm, how am I
less hurt or less entitled to liability
response than the fact that the vehicle might
have had a New York State regular license
plate? How does it change the reality for the
person or the other vehicle who gets damaged
in an accident?
SENATOR KUHL: Well, Senator,
3100
there's no diminution of any kinds of relief
that you might have in any kind of judicial
structure, none whatsoever in this bill.
This bill simply says, look, back
in 1994 this Legislature imposed a new mandate
that's very expensive to farmers on them.
They already had a coverage for their
vehicles. Now you're telling them they've got
to go out and get another policy and pay for a
separate policy on each one of these farm
vehicles.
Now, to me, that's double coverage
that's unnecessary. And it certainly is very
expensive in the operation.
What we've seen in this state,
Senator, has been this kind of overregulation,
this kind of burden, this kind of financial
cost to farmers that has driven them out of
business. We have lost something like 9,000
farms in the last ten years. There's a
million acres less that are being harvested in
this state because of overregulation.
This is one of the things that's
doing that. And this Legislature has done
that. And I think it's unfair, it's
3101
unnecessary. And your -- in your particular
case that you've posed, you still have a right
to relief. You can still sue the farmer.
Now, it's unlikely that one of
these farm vehicles going 10 miles an hour
from one field to the other is going to harm
you very dastardly. You're not going to be
destroyed. Probably you're going to be the
reason for the accident, because you're
probably coming down this highway where this
farm vehicle is, with this big orange plate
that says it's a slow-moving vehicle, at 55,
60, 65, or 70 miles an hour.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR KUHL: I'd be happy to.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator is happy to yield.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator. I don't think that either of us
could actually debate who would be most likely
responsible, the farmer or the other party, in
3102
any given accident -
SENATOR KUHL: Senator, I only
say that because there is not on record a
recorded accident with a farm vehicle.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay. But
again, on the bill, you agreed before that you
thought there should be liability insurance
for farmers and that -
SENATOR KUHL: And there has
been, Senator. That's my point.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And that
this is a double requirement on them because
they do have farm liability insurance
policies.
Senator Paterson brought up before
the question of whether farm liability
policies require inclusion of motor vehicles.
And it's my understanding that it doesn't
require that now.
So assuming we all agree that there
should be liability insurance and that your
point, which I think is well taken, that we
shouldn't require double insurance to cover
the same issue for farmers, if in fact farm
liability insurance covers the potential
3103
accident -- and as you've pointed out, and the
transcripts from previous years have also
shown, that nobody has shown much evidence of
this kind of accident occurring -- my question
to you is, if the liability risk is the same,
quite low, whether it's motor vehicle
insurance liability or farm liability, and we
all agree that there ought to be liability
insurance, that we're to some degree debating
whose insurance coverage should be in place,
what is your understanding of why it would be
less costly to farmers to have motor vehicle
insurance under farm liability insurance as
opposed to the premiums they're paying for
these low-risk vehicles under motor vehicle
insurance?
SENATOR KUHL: Well, Senator,
it's my understanding when you write an
individual policy for an individual vehicle
that you're not exempting it as a farm
vehicle. So it is insured just like the car
that you drive. And that's a very expensive
premium, I assume, as you know.
This was never the case before.
Now, my good friend David Paterson I think has
3104
come up with a marvelous idea, a marvelous
idea. And in an attempt to try to get him to
vote for this bill today, I'm going to assure
him that I am going to put in a chapter
amendment to this bill that will essentially
prohibit the exemption of a farm vehicle from
a general liability policy if in fact this
bill passes both houses and is signed into
law. Because I think that's an excellent
idea.
Because he makes the point that
there's nothing to preclude a farmer from
then, after having a general policy, to
exclude that vehicle from that general policy.
I think that's wonderful.
I don't think that that is the case
that's happening today. I've never heard of
it. So I have no problem in passing a chapter
amendment that would prohibit an activity that
isn't occurring today.
And I think his idea is an
excellent one, because that gives his
constituency who's concerned about this bill,
you know, the assurance that in fact there
will be a liability policy covering this
3105
vehicle if it in fact is on a state highway.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, if I might speak on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I'm very glad to hear Senator
Kuhl's proposal to amend his own bill. That I
think would at least partially address the
concern that I believe Senator Paterson and I
have raised today.
I would actually ask that you amend
your amendment to not only include a
requirement that farmers have to have the
liability insurance under their coverage, but,
perhaps more importantly, mandate that the
issuers of farm liability insurance must
include motor vehicle liability insurance in
their policies for farm vehicles.
Because while my research is very
new, and again, as I said, I have not been
here for the previous years of debate, it's my
understanding that a concern we ought to have
is that the issuers in the insurance industry
for farm liability insurance will purposely
3106
exclude farm vehicle insurance.
So it's not the question of is the
farmer prepared to take that option, but
rather that the insurance company isn't
prepared to provide that option.
And I think that if this house was
to go forward and pass this into law through
both houses, what would be necessary to
address the standard of liability that I think
we all agree that if there is accidents, there
should be liability coverage, that we need to
ensure that insurance companies have to
provide this coverage under umbrella farm
liability policies.
So again, I will withhold voting
yes today. I would be open to changing my
vote to yes with the amendments that require
that we have equal coverage under farm
liability insurance both mandated for the
insurance companies and required for the
farmers, to ensure that we have adequate
insurance.
And I hope, based on your analysis,
if this was done, it would be a lower cost
than is currently the option under motor
3107
vehicle insurance. Because I agree our goal
is not to overregulate farms, it is not to
overburden New York State farmers with
unnecessarily expensive insurance coverage.
And that basically, if your
proposal is really one to lower the cost of
insurance for farmers for their vehicles that
are lower-risk vehicles, and that can be done
by protecting the rights of people if
accidents occur by providing a lower-cost
insurance plan through farm liability
insurance, I think that would be an excellent
model.
So I will vote no today, but I am
optimistic that an amended bill might be one
that we would all agree is in the best
interests of all New Yorkers.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator.
Any other Senator wishing to speak
on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
3108
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, I'm going to vote no, just in the
sense that this is the bill that was put
before us today.
But I think that this is one time
that we actually heard a debate that
influenced the opportunity of actually doing
something, as we have not for nine years, for
those farmers who are in that particular
situation and have really lost a lot, as we as
a state have lost a lot from the source of the
work -- from the work that they actually do.
I do think that by next year we'll
all be voting for this. And I want to thank
Senator Kuhl for his years of working on this
issue and all the exhaustion he's gone through
trying to convince me that he's right. But I
did always understand the effect of these
added encumbrances that farmers feel from the
federal legislation of some time in the past.
3109
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: How do
you vote, Senator?
SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, I vote no,
Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson in the negative.
SENATOR PATERSON: With a heavy
heart.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: With a
heavy heart.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 798 are
Senators Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, Duane,
L. Krueger, Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, and
Stavisky. Ayes, 47. Nays, 9.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Calendar Number 951, by Senator
Nozzolio, Senate Print 4527, an act to amend
the Public Housing Law, in relation to the
members.
SENATOR HEVESI: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested.
3110
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, who requested the explanation?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: I think
Senator Schneiderman -- Senator Hevesi, I'm
sorry.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator
Hevesi. Thank you.
Senator Hevesi, my colleagues, this
measure was introduced at the request of the
Geneva Housing Authority and the Geneva City
Council. It was a measure that exempts the
housing authority from the requirement that
their local legislative body must approve a
compensation.
It authorizes -- the current law
authorizes the housing authority to hire their
employees, fix their compensation subject to
the approval of the local legislative body.
In this case, it's the City of Geneva.
Geneva local officials said that
that may have been appropriate when the
housing authority was first created, it was
operated. But through time, that the city has
had the responsibility should there be any
deficits of the housing authority.
3111
That has since been changed,
because the city housing authority has become
a federally assisted project. The city no
longer faces these financial risks or bears
such responsibility. Therefore, it makes
sense that the city no longer have to
micromanage the day-to-day operations of the
housing authority.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Madam
President. Would the sponsor please yield?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, do you yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Madam
President, I'd be happy to yield to Senator
Hevesi.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thank you, Madam
President.
I voted for this last year. I
understand the logic behind it. I'm just a
little bit concerned about the lack of
oversight on public authorities.
3112
So my question would be since we
have moved here, evidently, to a funding
source from the federal government, is there
any federal oversight over staffing, salaries,
and the like currently which would obviate the
need for local oversight?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, certainly that's a very relevant
question. I'd have to say that every grant,
every authorization of funds from the federal
government to the city housing authority is
subject to appropriate audits, appropriate
standards that the federal government sets.
The City of Geneva -- a small city,
fewer than 15,000 people -- has enough on its
plate. It's really ill-equipped to be a
manager of -- an auditor, in effect, of an
authority that is largely funded, if not
totally funded -- totally funded by the
federal government.
SENATOR HEVESI: Madam President,
on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Hevesi, on the bill.
SENATOR HEVESI: Thanks. Madam
3113
President, briefly on the bill.
This bill seems to make sense. I
voted for it last time. I guess I'm just
venting a little bit and feel the need to
articulate the need to have much greater
oversight of public authorities.
And while this may be a bad example
of it, we have created, in New York State,
public authorities pretty much for their
ability to float revenue bonds to circumvent
debt limits and have not provided any kind of
adequate oversight over these entities. And
ultimately, the taxpayers are responsible.
There are billions and billions of
dollars' worth of debt, and practices within
the public authorities that the public just
doesn't know about. Things go on behind
closed doors. And some things that go on
behind these closed doors we never hear about.
And so while this may be a good
bill, I just want to point out the need -
maybe not in this particular instance, where
Senator Nozzolio's legislation makes sense -
but generally, as a principle, I think our
public authorities have gotten way out of
3114
hand. Though they were needed and still are
needed for good purposes, there was no reason
to have much more stringent oversight over
these entities. That the public really
doesn't know who controls them, how decisions
get made, how things happen, what -- the
extent of the borrowing that ultimately they
are responsible for, how those decisions are
made, and profligate spending.
In certain cases, when we hear
about -- for example, every year or every two
years we hear about outrageous salaries at the
Port Authority or artwork being purchased or
what have you. And I'm pretty sure, Madam
President, that if there was legislative
oversight of these entities, that there would
be much less of those type of activities.
So I'll support this bill, but just
felt the need to speak out on that matter.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Is there
any other Senator wishing to speak on the
bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3115
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Madam
President. Is there any housekeeping at the
desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes,
there is.
Senator Marcellino.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
Madam President. I wish to call up Senator
Larkin's bill, Print Number 6580, recalled
from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
581, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6580, an
act to amend Chapter 478 of the Laws of 1969.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Marcellino.
3116
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam
President, I now move to reconsider the vote
by which this bill was passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Marcellino.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: In the hopes
that this bill will also be restored to its
place on the Third Reading Calendar, I now
offer the following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you.
Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Madam
President. There being no further business, I
move we adjourn until Monday, May 13th, at
3117
3:00 o'clock p.m., intervening days being
legislative days.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Monday, May 13th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening
days being legislative days.
(Whereupon, at 11:50 a.m., the
Senate adjourned.)