Regular Session - May 13, 2002
3130
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 13, 2002
3:17 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
3131
P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
please come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: With us this
afternoon to give the invocation is Reverend
Steven James Simpson, from the Congregational
Christian Church of Ravena.
REVEREND SIMPSON: Thank you,
Lieutenant Governor.
And good afternoon, everyone. I
thought we'd pray for rain today.
(Laughter.)
REVEREND SIMPSON: Let's pray.
Gracious and Almighty God, holy is
Your name. We come to You this afternoon with
prayers much like those prayed every Sunday
morning in my local church in Ravena, and by
people of faith in countless similar churches
throughout the state of New York on any given
Sunday.
3132
O, Great Physician, we pray for
those who are sick or in pain or grieving. By
Your Holy Spirit, touch these people who are
most in need of Your healing touch and
comforting presence.
Protector God, we pray for those
who put themselves in harm's way -- police
officers, firefighters, and those who serve in
the military -- asking that You protect them
as they perform their duties to protect us.
God of Truth, we pray for those who
are in leadership in all levels of government,
that You would give them wisdom in the
important decisions they make that affect many
lives. In particular, we pray this afternoon
for this session of the New York State Senate.
Give these public servants Godly wisdom and
Godly courage to stand for what is right and
what is good for the people.
O, Prince of Peace, ruler of all
nations, may be the discussions and decisions
made here today be pleasing in Your sight.
These things we lift up to You, O God who
listens.
Praying in Jesus' name, amen.
3133
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Sunday, May 12, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, May 11,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
President.
On behalf of Senator Seward, on
page 25 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar Number 545, Senate Print 6722, and I
ask that that bill retain its place on the
3134
Third Reading Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: Madam President,
I offer amendments to these following Third
Reading Calendar bills:
Senator Wright, page 7, Calendar
Number 117, Senate Print 3931;
Senator Lack, on page 41, Calendar
791, Senate Print 6912;
Senator Trunzo, page 45, Calendar
Number 848, Senate Print 7011;
Senator Trunzo, on page 45,
Calendar 851, Senate Print 7076;
Senator Padavan, on page 57,
Calendar 991, Senate Print 4331;
Senator Trunzo, on page 63,
Calendar 1048, Senate Print 7086;
Senator Kuhl, on page 64, Calendar
1055, Senate Print 4606A;
For Senator DeFrancisco, on
page 68, Calendar Number 1100, Senate Print
4240;
For Senator Alesi, on page 69,
3135
Calendar 1104, Senate Print 7167;
Senator Kuhl, on page 69, Calendar
1109, Senate Print 6653;
Senator Leibell, on page 72,
Calendar Number 1136, Senate Print 5089A;
And Senator LaValle, on page 80,
Calendar 1188, Senate Print 6614.
And I ask that these bills will
retain their place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bills will retain their
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there's a privileged resolution at the desk by
Senator Rath. Could we have the title read
and move for its immediate adoption.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator Rath,
Legislative Resolution Number 5447, honoring
Dorothy Coughlin, of Genesee County, upon the
occasion of her designation as the recipient
of the 2002 New York State Office for the
3136
Aging Senior Achiever Award.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the resolution. All in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there's a privileged resolution at the desk by
Senator Marchi. Could we have the title read
and move for its immediate adoption.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Marchi, Legislative Resolution Number 5475,
honoring Mike Azzara, Staten Island
newspaperman.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
on the resolution. All in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
3137
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go
to the noncontroversial calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 9159, an act to amend
the Insurance Law, in relation to mortgage
guarantee insurance.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
34, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 426A, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
3138
drug testing.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 180th day.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
312, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 2457A,
an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to providing a tax exemption.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
378, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6372A,
an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation
to the New York State Scenic Byways System.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3139
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
568, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8823B, an act to amend
the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to
creating.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 180th day.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
601, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 200A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
causing the death of a peace officer.
SENATOR GENTILE: Lay it aside,
3140
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside, Senator.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
649, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 2681, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
the Board of Elections.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
672, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6949, an
act to amend the General Business Law, in
relation to collateral loan brokers.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
3141
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
705, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 4017, an
act authorizing the assessor of the County of
Nassau.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside, Senator.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
711, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 9426, an act to amend a
chapter of the Laws of 2001 as proposed in
legislative bills numbers Senate 4489 and
Assembly 4618.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the same date as a
chapter of the Laws of 2001.
REVEREND SIMPSON: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3142
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
825, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6416, an
act authorizing the assessor of the Town of
Islip.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Dollinger, to explain your vote.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my
vote.
Madam President, last week I
suggested that we should post signs heading on
to Long Island that would contain a Burma
Shave commercial about the need for property
tax exemption filings. That failed to stop
the flood.
3143
I want my colleagues -- and I by no
means mean any disrespect to Senator Trunzo,
but Senator Balboni has one, Senator Hannon
has one. I am reporting this contagion to the
CDC, the Center for Disease Control.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR DOLLINGER: There seems
to be general incompetence in Nassau and
Suffolk County. For some reason, these are
the only two counties which I've seen, I
think, in the entire time I've been here,
where they can't realize that when a
not-for-profit company buys a piece of
property, you've got to take into account the
tax-exempt status and the real property taxes
that have accrued on the property or will
accrue.
I would suggest that the general
incompetence -- I hope it's quarantined in
those two counties on Long Island. I hope
that the lawyers who represent these community
groups will suddenly wake up that they'll
either be sued for malpractice or they will
come to the conclusion, when they close on a
piece of property, that they have to take into
3144
account the real property tax status.
Madam President, I hope that the
CDC can come up with an inoculation that will
work in these two counties and we can
eliminate this useless problem from coming to
our attention. We'll wait and see how the
quarantine does, Madam President. I expect
that, who knows, this week we'll still see
more bills back here.
I'll vote in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Balboni,
to explain your vote.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes. I'd like
to assure Dr. Dollinger that the condition is
benign and, as a matter of fact, in most cases
beneficial.
(Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Dollinger, you will be recorded as voting in
the negative.
Senator Balboni, you will be
recorded as voting in the affirmative.
The Secretary will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays,
3145
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
843, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 6652, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
847, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6852A, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
that portion of the state highway system.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3146
857, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1130A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crimes of unlawful failure.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
864, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2782, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
including school buses.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
September.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
868, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3937, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
endangering the welfare of a child.
3147
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays,
1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
870, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6105B, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
reckless assault of a child.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
3148
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
897, by Member of the Assembly Englebright,
Assembly Print Number 10017, an act to amend
Chapter 779 of the Laws of 1986.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
914, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6355, an
act to amend Chapter 356 of the Laws of 2000.
THE PRESIDENT: There is a
home-rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
3149
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
928, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1210A,
an act to amend the Education Law, in relation
to the requirements of certification.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
947, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 6510,
an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets
Law, in relation to the payment of indemnity
for domestic animals.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3150
966, by Member of the Assembly Matusow,
Assembly Print Number 5973B, an act to amend
the General Business Law, in relation to
providing.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
970, by Member of the Assembly Schimminger,
Assembly Print Number 9980, an act to amend
the General Business Law, in relation to
exempting certain security guards.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside for the day.
3151
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
972, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 431,
an act to amend the Navigation Law, in
relation to the operation of a vessel
recklessly.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
987, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1020, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
polling places in Suffolk County.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
3152
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
993, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 7282, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to urban development action areas.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
Senator Skelos, we have news. That
does not complete the reading of the
noncontroversial calendar. We have an
addition.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
will you please call up Calendar Number 760,
by Senator Balboni.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
3153
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
760, by Member of the Assembly Koon, Assembly
Print Number 1141, an act to amend the Social
Services Law, in relation to confidentiality.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
Senator Skelos, that does complete
the reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to the controversial reading of
the calendar at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
Senator Skelos.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
312, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 2457A,
an act to amend Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to providing a tax exemption.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Morahan, an explanation has been
requested.
3154
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill is a bill that would
allow school districts, counties, villages and
towns in a certain county, depending on its
population, to allow a 10 percent exemption
for firefighters and emergency service
workers, ambulance workers.
SENATOR BALBONI: Last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
1. Senator Hevesi recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
601, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 200A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
causing the death of a peace officer.
SENATOR GENTILE: Explanation.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
3155
temporarily.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Lay
the bill aside temporarily, please.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
705, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 4017, an
act authorizing the assessor of the County of
Nassau to accept an application.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: I
predict that bill will be laid aside for the
day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
857, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1130A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crimes of unlawful failure.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Alesi, an explanation has been
requested by Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you,
Senator, for giving me the opportunity to
revisit this bill again.
This bill does two things, Mr.
President. It makes it illegal to disobey an
order by a uniformed police officer to stop in
a vehicle. It also makes it illegal for the
3156
person to flee a uniformed police officer when
given an order to do so.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President. Would Senator Alesi yield for a
question?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes, Mr.
President, I'd be happy to yield for a
question.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I believe
that, Senator Alesi, when we debated the bill
the last time, I think that one of the issues
that we raised was the fact that you did not
indicate that the police officer must be in an
officially marked and designated police car.
In other words, at that time we had
unmarked cars on the highway. Was that true,
do you recall?
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President,
through you, relative to the bill at hand,
without regard to any previous bill that's
passed this house of the Legislature, this
bill does in fact say that an unmarked car
would not require someone to pull over under
3157
the circumstances described.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Montgomery, do you wish the gentleman
to yield?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: If Senator
Alesi would continue to yield.
SENATOR ALESI: Yes, Mr.
President.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Now,
the bill refers to low-speed pursuits, relates
to low-speed pursuits encountered when a
person, for whatever reason, ignores the
command to pull over.
And I know that on some occasions,
in many instances -- in particular, women
traveling on a highway in an area that is
pretty isolated may not feel comfortable
stopping where there's no lighting, no
possibility of any other person and is asked
to pull over.
In those instances, what is to
protect that person who genuinely has a
legitimate fear of stopping, even though it
may be -- it may appear to be a police
3158
officer? It seems to me that that's a
legitimate reason, especially if you're not
speeding, to not stop for a police stop. And
under your legislation, it would still be a
crime.
So what would protect a person in
that circumstance vis-a-vis your legislation?
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President,
through you, we all know that law enforcement
officers are engaged in probably one of the
most noble services that are provided to
society, and at the same time, one of the most
dangerous.
In fact, I'm very pleased today,
although the rules of the house don't permit
me to make introductions, to at least
acknowledge that there are three such noble
servants joining us here today from Monroe
County.
And when you ask, Senator
Montgomery, what would protect someone who is
concerned about being ordered to pull over by
an officer in uniform in a marked vehicle with
lights flashing, I would simply say that I
could think of no safer place to be than under
3159
those circumstances.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Briefly on
the legislation.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Montgomery, on the bill.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
Senator Alesi, I certainly appreciate your
respect for the police, and I have similar
respect.
However, there are a couple of
police departments that are now being
investigated -- I think one on Long Island,
one upstate -- and the primary or at least one
of the issues that the departments in those
instances have to address is the fact that
there has been misconduct on the part of
individual police officers who pulled people
over, especially women, and demanded certain
activities of those women even though they
were in uniform, in marked cars, and so on and
so on.
3160
So I have a real problem with this.
I would personally have a problem being
stopped in certain areas of this state, day or
night -- but especially night -- by a police
officer, because I certainly have not had the
same experience as you have had, that in every
single instance of an encounter with the
police have I had a positive and safe and
respectful experience.
So I'm voting no on this bill, Mr.
President, because I think that it could
possibly open up more opportunities for police
officers to engage in the kind of conduct that
we know has happened in the past.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Montgomery, you will be recorded in
the negative.
SENATOR ALESI: Will Senator
Montgomery yield for a question from me,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Alesi, why do you rise?
SENATOR ALESI: Would Senator
Montgomery yield.
3161
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Montgomery, would you yield to a
question, please?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I
certainly will.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you,
Senator.
Just for clarification. I'm not
sure, but did I understand you to say that
you've been in positions where you've felt
uncomfortable?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Absolutely.
SENATOR ALESI: And through you
again, Mr. President, if Senator Montgomery
would continue to yield, would I safely
conclude, then, in the aura of discomfort that
you felt that you might have not obeyed an
order to yield yourself?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
Alesi, it has nothing to do with whether or
not I was speeding. I was not speeding. It
certainly has nothing to do with whether or
not I was disobeying any law, because I was
not.
So I can assure you that I
3162
certainly have had encounters that have not
been as pleasant as you indicate your trust
and relationship with law enforcement is. Not
at all times for me, but certainly there have
been times when I have had extremely
frightening and unpleasant encounters.
And that's what I refer to when I
say that I would not feel comfortable stopping
for someone pursuing me, even in a marked car,
with lights flashing, on some roads,
especially at some times in this state and
anywhere else in this nation.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you.
Mr. President, as a follow-up to my
question, I assure you, Senator, I did not
mean to put you in an embarrassing situation
with my question. It was simply asked so that
I would more clearly understand what the
concerns of someone who has actually disobeyed
an order to pull over would be.
And therefore, understanding those
concerns, I would be better able to address
the following questions or questions that I
would expect would follow. And if in the
event that there would be some opportunity to
3163
make this bill better, which at this point I
don't believe there is, I would at least have
availed myself of that with your response.
I should also point out that
Governor Pataki, in his concern, out of
concern for some of the issues that you
raised -- for example, women being concerned
about being pulled over by an unmarked car -
the Governor very wisely, very compassionately
did order that unmarked state police cars no
longer be used for those kinds of purposes.
So there is an awareness and certainly a
sensitivity for the kind of issue that you
brought up.
However, I would still say that
when a police officer orders someone to pull
over, if that officer is in a marked car and
in uniform and with lights flashing, then
under all normal circumstances it is probably
for the good of that driver, who perhaps might
have a light out or some other problem with
the car, that that driver pull over.
And if the driver ignores the
order, then the police officer has the option,
under this legislation, to write up the driver
3164
for failing to obey.
Thank you, Mr. President.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
President, I appreciate that explanation. I
certainly do appreciate the fact that the
Governor has removed unmarked cars.
I think what my suggestion would
be, however, is that in the event that an
officer deems it necessary to ask someone to
pull over, and they're obviously not breaking
the law in any obvious way, that they should
be allowed to proceed to what would be a safer
stopping location before the officer
automatically -- before they're automatically
to be charged with breaking the law. So that
they feel safer at least in terms of an
officer searching that car or stopping them to
get out of the car.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you,
Senator.
And to follow up, Mr. President, I
think that the bill clearly states within a
reasonable amount of time. So I think that
that would afford somebody the opportunity to
find a well-lighted place or something.
3165
Especially if the person, at least
under the first part of this bill, is not
traveling in excess of the speed limit and is
probably just being ordered to pull over,
perhaps because there is a taillight out or
something like that, and it would probably be
more for the safety of the driver.
And again, the officer has the
option or not of imposing this under
circumstances that would be reasonable.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if Senator Alesi would yield for a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Alesi, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR ALESI: For Senator
Paterson, I would yield for an unlimited
number of questions within five minutes or so.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: That
is delightful.
Senator Paterson, please proceed.
SENATOR PATERSON: I am
flattered, Mr. President.
3166
I notice that this is an A print of
the bill. We debated the bill two years ago.
I'm trying to figure out what has been added
to the legislation from the time we first
discussed it. And I thought perhaps Senator
Alesi would tell us, while I think of another
question, because I don't want to miss this
great opportunity for dialogue with the
Senator.
SENATOR ALESI: Through you, Mr.
President, it has always been my habit to try
to accommodate my colleagues as much as
possible during their questioning.
And without regard to any previous
bills, I understand that this is an A print.
I suspect that probably, as a result of my
willingness to accommodate any reasonable
suggestions on this floor in the past, that
the Senator might be referring to the section
that deals with unmarked cars.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
President. I want to thank Senator Alesi.
This was something that Senator Montgomery and
I raised with him two years ago, and he
acceded to our requests. And I wasn't aware
3167
of it until now.
But that was the real issue that we
had with this bill previously, that when the
motorist cannot determine who is actually
stopping them, it is difficult to assume that
it's a policeman.
If the Senator would continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Alesi, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR ALESI: As I said before,
I would accede to any reasonable request.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson, please proceed.
SENATOR PATERSON: Speaking of
reasonable, Senator, the reasonable period of
time in which the vehicle is supposed to stop
is kind of a subjective terminology. And it
has been the case sometimes that the officers
might think that the motorist is understanding
the command.
And really, my question relates to
what is the meaning of, you know, the
terminology "having been directed to stop."
Is that flashing lights? Is it a siren? It's
3168
possible that a motorist could be looking in
the wrong direction and not see the flashing
lights.
And so my question just is, do you
think this would be specific enough, with the
reasonable amount of time standard, and adding
what seems to be a rather vague sense of what
the command should actually be to stop, that
it could be so subjective that it's almost
remote?
SENATOR ALESI: Through you, Mr.
President -
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: -- Senator, I
understand your concerns with this issue.
I think it is probably beneficial
that the term "reasonable amount of time" be
subjective so that it affords the officer in
question the opportunity to accommodate not
only the driver that he or she is trying pull
over, but also to accommodate other drivers
that might be on the road or to accommodate
situations such as a one-lane bridge.
And while it is subjective, there
3169
are a number of things that law enforcement
officers do on a daily basis that are
subjective, not the least of which is have the
ability and the permission, through their
training, to exercise the ability to estimate
speed, for example.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if the Senator would yield for one last
question.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Alesi, do you yield?
SENATOR ALESI: I wouldn't want
to limit the Senator to one last question.
However, I'd be happy to yield to the next
one.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson, please proceed.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
if the Senator would clarify for the body what
is actually the command to stop. Is it
accomplished by just the flashing lights, a
siren, a combination of the two?
I'm just curious as to what the
3170
motorist has to notice that allows the
operator of the vehicle the opportunity to
stop in a reasonable period of time.
SENATOR ALESI: Through you, Mr.
President. Thank you for the question,
Senator. I believe that the answer to that
would be in keeping with the questions that
are usually posed to someone applying for a
learner's permit. And it would be something
indicative of flashing lights or a siren or
any of those things.
As part of learning to drive and as
part of the test itself, you would have to
answer correctly that when someone is flashing
their lights or sounding a siren that you'd be
required to pull over.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Any
other Senator wishing to be heard on this
bill?
If not, please read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
3171
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:
Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
I'm going to vote yes on this bill.
I was very concerned, as was
Senator Montgomery, that previously the bill
did not include unmarked vehicles, which could
properly frighten a motorist into wondering
who's actually stopping them. That did happen
in the state of Maryland. There was an
incident right here in upstate New York where
that occurred.
And even though police with
unmarked vehicles would not understand why the
public doesn't stop when they ask them to,
they don't understand that that has, at times,
been a way in which perpetrators have
committed crimes against civilians, by posing
or acting as police.
I still have a concern, as does
Senator Montgomery, that perhaps the officers,
particularly when stopping women, could be
3172
more sensitive to the area unless they are in
an actual chase of the vehicle. And I think
that might be something we might add to
sensitivity training.
But certainly, so as not to injure
other motorists, I think it is probably most
prudent to vote in favor of this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson will be recorded in the affirmative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
would you please call up Calendar Number 601,
by Senator Volker.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
601, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 200A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
causing the death of a peace officer.
3173
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
760, by Member of the Assembly Koon, Assembly
Print Number 1141, an act to amend the Social
Services Law, in relation to confidentiality.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Balboni, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you,
Madam President.
This particular measure would amend
Section 459G of the Domestic Relations Law,
specifically the Domestic Violence Prevention
Act which we enacted some years ago.
3174
And the reasoning behind this
statute was to provide for confidentiality in
the designation and operation of a safe house
for victims of domestic violence.
However, several cases in
Rochester, New York, have underscored and
revealed a problem. There were several cases
in which a site that was going to be a shelter
or a domestic violence center was disclosed,
through public documents, to an individual who
sought retribution against their spouse, and
an attack occurred.
Therefore, what this bill seeks to
do is to close that loophole by providing in
the same section of law the fact that
facilities that are anticipated to be a
shelter for domestic violence victims are also
wrapped up in the confidentiality provisions
of the current statute.
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, if Senator Balboni would yield for
a couple of questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Balboni, will you yield to Senator Paterson?
3175
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, I do,
Senator Paterson.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
Section 459G, does it speak to the zoning
classifications or permits sought in
preparation of the facility?
I would imagine that a predator who
is looking for someone who had been abused to
exact some retribution for this might actually
go back to the sites of the permit granting or
perhaps the zoning classification procedures
to further try to figure out where this
facility might be. Particularly in small
towns, they're probably only going to be in
one place.
And my question is, having really
cured the problem in this legislation as you
have, will it also protect it from a problem
from that source?
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, through you. Senator Paterson, the
statute -- the bill specifically states "any
application submitted." Within the contents
3176
of that application may in fact be the
section, lot and block number, for purposes of
receiving funding from any agency.
And therefore, within that context,
it would be kept confidential.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, if the Senator would yield for
another question.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Balboni, will you continue to yield?
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, I so yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR PATERSON: So this
applies as much to state facilities as the
local ones as well?
SENATOR BALBONI: Through you,
Madam President, yes, it does.
SENATOR PATERSON: All right,
Madam President, I think I have one last
question for Senator Balboni.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
3177
Balboni, will you take one last question?
SENATOR BALBONI: I will, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator takes one last question.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm
just very much in appreciation to you for this
work on the issue and have to ask you a
question I've asked you many times before.
Has the other house taken any action on this
bill?
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, through you, this is -- I
appreciate that question very much. With the
passage of this bill in this house, this bill
will then be transmitted to the Governor's
desk for signature. It has already passed the
Assembly unanimously.
And let me point out that though
the instances that were the inspiration for
this particular measure occurred in Rochester,
New York, certainly this is a bill of interest
throughout this state. And I'm happy to say
that there are residents from Long Island in
the chamber with us today who are very
3178
interested in this issue and have come to see
how government works.
So it's nice to see that we're
actually going to get something done today
with the passage of this bill.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There is
no housekeeping at the desk.
SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
3179
further business, I move we adjourn until
Tuesday, May 14th, at 3:00 p.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, May 14th, at 3:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:00 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)