Regular Session - May 16, 2002
3329
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 16, 2002
10:23 a.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
3330
P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance to the Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: In the
absence of clergy, may we each bow our heads
in a moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Wednesday, May 15, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, May 14,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
3331
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
President.
On behalf of Senator Skelos, I wish
to call up his bill, 6386, which has passed
both houses and not been delivered to the
Governor.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
824, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6386, an
act authorizing the assessor of the County of
Nassau.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
now move to reconsider the vote by which this
bill was passed, and I ask that the bill be
restored to the order of third reading.
3332
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll on reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is restored to the order of third reading.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
now offer up the following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted.
SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Johnson, on page 42 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 843, Senate Print Number 6652, and I
ask that that bill retain its place on the
Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, thank you. May we now have the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
3333
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
156, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5340, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
permitting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
act shall take effect in 90 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
183, by Senator Libous -
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Lay it aside
for the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
404, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1550, an
3334
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to coordinating.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
405, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1682, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to income eligibility.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
3335
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
625, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4682B, an
act to amend the Economic Development Law, in
relation to promoting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
628, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
Assembly Print Number 8734, an act to amend
the Economic Development Law, in relation to
powers and duties.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
3336
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
742, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3145, an
act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
veterans.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 38.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
821, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6365, an
act in relation to authorizing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2 -
3337
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
849, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7012, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to form.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 38.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
858, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 1138, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
endangering.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3338
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 38.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
873, by Member of the Assembly Weprin,
Assembly Print Number 10554, an act to amend
the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in relation
to the method.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 39.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
890, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4376, an
3339
act to amend the Correction Law, in relation
to making technical corrections.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
900, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2312A, an
act to amend the Parks, Recreation and
Historic Preservation Law and -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay the bill
aside, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
954, by Member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly
Print Number 9968, an act to amend Chapter 449
of the Laws of 1986.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
3340
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
955, by Member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly
Print Number 9969, an act to amend Chapter 777
of the Laws of 1986.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
956, by Member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly
3341
Print Number 9967, an act to amend Chapter 84
of the Laws of 1993.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1000, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2901, an
act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
providing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44.
3342
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1014, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6221, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to alternative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1018, by Member of the Magee, Assembly Print
Number 860A, an act to amend the General
Municipal Law, in relation to point systems.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
3343
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1027, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 7150,
an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to responsibilities.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1031, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 7200,
an act authorizing the assessors of the County
of Nassau.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
3344
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly,
Mr. President. I laid the other bill aside;
Senator Balboni and I will talk about that in
a second.
But I would suggest that Senator
Balboni is seeking to become the king of
property tax exemptions. I think he's ahead.
I think this moves him ahead on the
scoreboard. My other colleagues from Nassau
County are trailing.
Please -- Senator Trunzo is
laughing -- please, everybody from Nassau and
Suffolk, get those property tax exemptions in.
This may be your last chance. We're getting
close to the end of the session. We've only
done about 40 of these. We're wasting our
time printing these bills.
But don't hold out, you can still
take the lead. Don't let Senator Balboni take
this title. This is far too important. He's
moving ahead for the gold medal, the king of
property tax exemptions.
3345
Statewide? Maybe you'll start
doing it statewide.
I would suggest, Mr. President, we
continue to do these -- please, please,
someone from Nassau or Suffolk step forward.
Let's do a statewide bill and get it over
with.
Meanwhile, Mr. President, I never
thought I'd say this, but in this chamber of
democracy, I hail the king, Senator Balboni.
I'm voting no.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger will be recorded in the negative.
Your Majesty, why do you rise?
(Laughter.)
SENATOR BALBONI: I would just
like to ask two things. One, that I be
recorded in the affirmative in this.
And the second, that this
transcript, suitably engrossed, be put into
all of my campaign mailings this coming fall.
Thank you very much.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3346
Balboni will be recorded in the affirmative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1040, by Senator Lachman, Senate Print 3074,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to prescribing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1065, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4556,
an act to amend the Military Law, in relation
to payment.
3347
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1071, by Member of the Assembly Tocci,
Assembly Print Number 9917, an act to amend
Chapter 266 of the Laws of 1981.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3348
1087, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
5779, an act to amend the Public Authorities
Law, in relation to contracts.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1108, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6321A,
an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Law, in relation to authorizing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. Nays,
3349
1. Senator Onorato recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1146, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6204, an
act authorizing the transfer.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home-rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1149, by Member of the Assembly Weisenberg,
Assembly Print Number 9870A, an act to amend
Chapter 505 of the Laws of 1995.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
3350
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1160, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7165, an
act in relation to granting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home-rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1182, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4287,
an act to amend the Education Law, in relation
to inclusion.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
3351
last section.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside,
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
Senator Fuschillo, that completes
the noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
Mr. President. May we now take up the
controversial reading of the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read the controversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
821, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 6365, an
act in relation to authorizing.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can we have
an explanation, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 821 by Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
The Haitian Baptist Church of
Westbury seeks relief from the imposition of
3352
real property taxes on their parcel as a
result of the failure of the county's assessor
system to recognize the fact that they are in
fact tax-exempt.
Why do they fail to recognize?
Because we have a system whereby people need
to make an application for this tax-exempt
status, and they had failed to do so.
There's a letter in the file of the
Nassau County Department of Assessment dated
April 11th, 2001, which has confirmed that the
church will be exempt from all tax and state
taxes for the 2001-2002 school tax and 2002
county tax. However, that letter also
indicates that the county would not grant a
tax-exempt status for prior periods.
Therefore, the bill references a
date in 2001 for purposes of stating when the
exemption was granted going forward, but not
going back.
I believe that Senator Dollinger
had a question as to whether or not the date
in the memo of the purchase date in 1997 is in
fact the accurate date. It is. And what this
bill specifically seeks to do is to apply the
3353
tax-exempt status to the remaining portion of
1997, the taxable year 1998, taxable year
1999, and taxable year 2000.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: If the king
will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR BALBONI: I yield, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, what
is the total amount of tax, real property tax,
that's going to be abated if this exemption is
granted?
SENATOR BALBONI: The current tax
liability against the parcels in question is
$9,989.40. The church has already paid
$7,426.27 for the prior taxable periods before
the parcel was removed from the tax rolls of
taxable property.
3354
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if Senator Balboni would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, do you yield for another question?
SENATOR BALBONI: I do yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: If this bill
passes and becomes law, will the county
reimburse the church for the $7,000 it's
already paid?
SENATOR BALBONI: By the way,
thanks to counsel here. Jim Jordan is
absolutely terrific on these bills.
If you look at lines 19 through 23
of the legislation: "If exemption is granted
and such organization therefore shall have
paid any tax with respect to the subject roll,
the governing body or tax department may, in
its sole discretion, provide for the refund of
those taxes paid and cancel taxes, fines,
penalties or interest remaining unpaid."
So we allow the taxing
jurisdiction -- namely, Nassau County -- to
make that determination.
3355
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, do
you know what happened when this tax-exempt
entity started to get real property tax bills
for four years and apparently didn't do
anything about checking its tax-exempt status
with the real property assessor in Nassau
County? It did nothing; is that correct?
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
through you, there is an indication in the
correspondence -- which I'm trying to look for
now -- as to an explanation as to that.
From my director of legislation,
the property used to be a church and then
there was a transfer and then it became a
church again. And so therefore, there was a
change in the operation of the parcel which
3356
provided for the opportunity to go back to the
tax-exempt status.
But, Mr. President, by way of
answer, might I just take a moment and
digress? I understand Senator Dollinger's
broader concerns regarding these bills. I'm
not quite sure why he objects to the
introduction of a particular piece of
legislation as being an unnecessary cost or
burden.
I could offer that if you were to
take a look at every member's legislative
agenda, you might find bills that continue to
be introduced year after year after year and
never go anywhere. And I would hate to apply
that standard. Because, as you know, an idea
is something that should be put in print.
But secondly, the operation of the
Haitian church in Westbury is something that
neither you nor I, Senator Dollinger, have had
the opportunity to go and witness and
participate in. However, I would be happy to
take you on a walking tour of Nassau County
and you can come to all the churches and
facilities that have asked for this type of
3357
exemption and we can go in together and you
can hear from the parishioners of those
churches as to whether or not they believe
that it is appropriate for a religious
institution important to the Haitian community
of Westbury to have to pay taxes when it is a
part of this nation's credo that there is a
separation of church and state and there is an
exempt status under this taxation.
And the reason why I say this is
because I know that you want to see a
statewide bill, but this is an individual
case. And notwithstanding the fact that they
should have, could have, and would have been
more diligent with respect to the application
of the exemption, nonetheless the fact remains
that this is an opportunity to grant this
church, this religious organization which is
important to this community the same
opportunities enjoyed by every other religious
institution in this state.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
3358
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate
Senator Balboni's as always eloquent
explanation.
I don't really want to visit the
facilities in Nassau and Suffolk County that
we have done probably 50 of these bills this
year.
I would like to be introduced to
the person in charge of the church who gets a
property tax bill that says you owe property
taxes and who says: Well, this can't be true.
We're tax-exempt. Let's do nothing. Let's
stick it in the drawer and not even call the
assessor to find out why we're paying property
taxes on a piece of property that's
tax-exempt. I don't want to go see the
facility. I want to meet the treasurer of the
church who says: Oh, we got a property tax
bill, but we're going to do nothing.
I would suggest, Senator Balboni,
that this beneficial bill, which contains a
great idea, should be called the
Nassau-Suffolk lack of accountability law.
Because what it does is it says you get a
bill, you know you're not supposed to pay
3359
property taxes, and you ignore it.
So what's happened in Nassau and
Suffolk, Senator Balboni, is that you have an
application process, you have an exemption
process, and the people who get these bills
don't follow the law. They don't even pay any
attention. They get a property tax bill, they
stick it in the drawer and they don't do
anything. Because they now know that that
unaccountability, that lack of responsibility
can be resolved by one of them going to their
favorite Nassau County senator and having them
sponsor a bill.
This bill, this whole concept is
fostering irresponsibility among
not-for-profit organizations in Nassau and
Suffolk County. You're creating a bigger
problem because you're telling them ignore
these bills and your favorite senator will be
honored and be called man of the year in all
of these congregations when they deliver a
property tax relief.
I would suggest that those who
believe in accountability ought to be voting
no on these bills.
3360
And I'll conclude on one other
note, Senator Balboni. And I certainly don't
hold you personally accountable for this. But
I find it astounding that all of these
institutions are in places represented by
Republican senators.
I once tried to get -- you said
every idea should be put in print. I couldn't
agree with you more. I'd rather see the idea
put in law. And only by a statewide bill can
I be assured that when this happens in the
districts of Senator Brown or Senator Hevesi
or Senator Krueger, that they'll be able to
get the same favored treatment that now only
exists for congregations in not-for-profit
groups that have to pay real property taxes
that happen to be in communities represented
by Republican senators.
What's unfair about this, Senator
Balboni, is not only the lack of
accountability but, quite frankly, the
political posturing in this house that
prevents everybody from being treated equally.
When that happens, I'll vote for that bill.
As long as we're going to do it
3361
just to benefit Republican senators and create
a whole pattern of unaccountability in Nassau
and Suffolk, I'm going to continue to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: I am certain
that as I rise today that my good colleague
and friend Richard Dollinger does not mean to
stand up on this floor as a public official
and denigrate any section of our community.
Because he fully understands that
we're a nation of immigrants and, although we
might expect sophistication and understanding
from every single immigrant group, in fact
that has not always occurred.
And so it's a wonderful place in
America when we can stand up without one
scintilla of evidence and make a case of lack
of accountability when you've never visited
the church, you've never spoken to the
parishioners, you don't know what happened
with this. And in fact, when you say that
they didn't pay the bills, you're wrong. They
did not ignore them, they paid the bills.
Because maybe -- and he says why
3362
did they pay the bill. I'll tell you why.
Because maybe, as God-fearing Haitians who are
coming to this country that believe in the
United States, maybe they figured that the
county knew what they were doing. And if they
said they owed the bill, then they might as
well pay it. Because that's what happened
here.
You know, it's a little bit tiring,
in the context of a political debate and
discussion, to denigrate any member of our
community, particularly the Haitian community.
The Haitian community has been struggling, if
you haven't noticed. They've been trying to
assimilate. And here we go and we give them a
hand.
And yet you say because of a
hypertechnicality that we shouldn't be doing
it. So you'd punish them, you'd punish their
ability to continue their financial
operations.
And by the way, Senator Dollinger,
I don't know what the financial wherewithal of
this church is, because as a practical matter
they have to hire an attorney to go and bring
3363
this application. So here's what happens.
They get the bill, they figure, well, they
must know what they're doing, they pay the
bill, and then some time later someone says:
"You know, you're not supposed to be paying it
because you are exempt from real property
taxes."
And then they go and hire an
attorney and make application, and then
they're denied. And then they come to me.
And I'm sorry I'm a Republican, I'm sorry that
that bothers you. But you know what? That's
not going to stop me from doing the job.
Because that's why they appeared today, and
that's why this bill is here, Rick. And you
know that as well as I do.
Mr. President, I have tremendous
respect for Senator Dollinger. There is not
one personal hostility between us. I would
just ask as we go forward that we maintain the
focus on what the issue is. Senator Dollinger
wishes a statewide approach to this issue. On
the merits, he's probably right.
But you know what? Until the day
when we do a bill, I'm going to stand here and
3364
I'm going to try to represent my constituency
to the best of my ability. And I would
appreciate very much if the people in this
chamber would let me do that without
commenting on the veracity or the
accountability of those individuals.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, just to respond to Senator Balboni,
I've never criticized his advocacy on behalf
of this group. And they may be entitled to
it. In fact, my guess is that they are
clearly entitled to the property tax
exemption.
What bothers me, however, is that
we continue to do these bills and we continue
to send a message that says if you're a
not-for-profit group you don't have to hire a
lawyer, which is what everybody does when they
have a question of law. They need it
answered, so usually they hire someone who
might be able to give them the answer.
And with all due respect to the
3365
Haitian community, we've done this for almost
every religious group. I think all fifty of
them, with some exceptions, are religious
groups.
They're entitled to property tax
exemptions. I don't oppose that. I don't
oppose that they're trying to assimilate. I
think that's wonderful. One of the processes
of assimilation is to understand what the laws
are. If you don't understand them, ask a
lawyer, get an answer, and then act according
to the answer that he or she gives you.
I would just suggest -- and I won't
repeat myself -- but the solution to this is
in a statewide bill for partial property tax
exemptions for not-for-profit groups. Let's
take politics out of it, let's treat everybody
the same. I appreciate Senator Balboni's
advocacy.
I would love to do a bill like this
too, except I only get one a year, Mr.
President. And I've probably got dozens of
people out there that are waiting for them.
And I'm not so sure, given the way this house
is governed, that I would ever be able to give
3366
the dozens of community groups that I need to
give them relief, because there's a rule in
this house that says on the last day -- you
know, like judgment day -- on the last day, we
will do one Dollinger bill. That's the
concession that this house gives me.
I would suggest, Senator Balboni, a
true spirit of trying to solve the problem for
everybody would suggest that any Democrat in
this house who has any constituent in their
same situation should have a bill passed
immediately, early on the session, and not
have to wait till judgment day for it to
happen. Then I will be convinced that
politics has been taken out of this issue.
Until then, I still think we're
fostering unaccountability. I'll continue to
vote no and hope for change.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3367
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: To explain my
vote, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: I used up a
couple of handkerchiefs listening to Senator
Balboni's explanation of his legislation.
And there's a part of me that is
actually jealous that Senator Balboni has the
chance to stand up and explain his vote. I
would love to have that opportunity. Now,
it's not that I haven't passed bills in this
body. I have. They just haven't had my name
on them.
But sometime I'd love to be able to
stand up and be questioned sharply by my
colleagues on a piece of legislation which has
been brought to the floor which has my name on
it in the first position.
I'll vote yes on this. I'll
remember to bring more tissues for the future
so that I'll be prepared.
Thank you, Mr. President.
3368
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the affirmative.
Senator L. Krueger, to explain her
vote.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. To explain my vote.
I also will be voting yes on this
bill. But I was fascinated by the debate, day
in, day out now, on these issues of allowing
localities the right to do real property tax
exemptions.
And I'm fascinated also by the fact
that today, earlier, I supported two bills by
Senator Trunzo which would offer real property
tax exemptions for elderly and disabled
people, based on localities choosing to do so.
And I've heard the debate of
Senator Dollinger making the arguments that
Democratic bills don't get heard. But I would
argue Republican bills that matter also are
not getting heard.
And I would challenge Senator
Balboni and Senator Velella and Senator Marchi
and Senator McGee and Senator Padavan, who
have all sponsored a very important real
3369
property tax exemption bill for mostly the
people in my city, people who are disabled who
are trying, for years, to be included in the
SCRIE program to allow the Senior Citizen Rent
Increase Exemption program to be applied to
disabled people. This is a Republican bill
that all of the named senators are sponsoring,
year after year, and yet we don't see it come
to the floor.
And it is critical for disabled
people who live in rental apartments, as
opposed to not-for-profit facilities such as
the church we're debating now, or houses,
which were the issues with the two Trunzo
bills earlier. That these are equally
important, if not more critical, bills for a
large number of people.
So I would urge Senator Balboni and
the other senators who have sponsored this
bill to bring this bill to the floor this
year. It is S6360. It would give the
localities that have the SCRIE program -- and
New York City, I believe, being the largest
among them -- the opportunity to make a local
decision for theirselves about their use of
3370
tax money to ensure that a very vulnerable
population -- disabled, poor New Yorkers -- do
not lose their homes, ending up costing the
State of New York far more than if we were to
allow them and assist them to stay in their
homes.
So with respect to the arguments
that took place between Senator Balboni and
Senator Dollinger and the real issue of
politics determining what bills hit this floor
or not, I would urge my Republican colleagues
to move forward with their own bill
immediately to address the need of disabled
New Yorkers.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger, I'm sorry, how do you vote?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
I will vote yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger will be recorded in the affirmative.
Senator Schneiderman, to explain
your vote.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
3371
I very much appreciate the
eternally fascinating colloquy between
Senators Dollinger and Balboni. One aspect of
today's colloquy, though, I think is
critically important. I agree wholeheartedly
with Senator Balboni's statement about the
Haitian community, who are not really
different in many respects from a lot of other
immigrants who come to our shores and deserve
a helping hand, deserve at least not to be
pushed backwards in their efforts to get
involved in the business of being an American.
And I would hope that Senator
Balboni will also join me, with his awesome
rhetorical skills and mastery of the issues,
when today I move for an amendment to
eliminate this very discriminatory rule that
says undocumented aliens who live in New York
State and graduate from New York State high
schools and file affidavits with the
Immigration Department have to pay
out-of-state tuition rates. That's an issue
that a lot of your Haitian constituents care
about, and I look forward to you joining us in
that debate.
3372
Senator Espada is the sponsor of
the bill here.
And I think we need to have a
little consistency, if not in the partisan
nature of these bills, at least in our efforts
to help immigrants.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman, I'm sorry, your vote was?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I vote yes
for Senator Balboni's bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman will be recorded in the
affirmative.
The Secretary will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. Nays,
1. Senator Dollinger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, there will be an immediate meeting
of the Majority conference in the Majority
Conference Room.
3373
And upon the call, the Senate will
stand at ease.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Immediate meeting of the Majority conference
in the Senate Conference Room.
Senator Mendez, why do you rise?
SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Minority in Room 314.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Immediate meeting of the Minority Conference
in its conference room.
The Senate will stand at ease
pending the call of the Majority Leader.
(Whereupon, the Senate stood at
ease at 10:57 a.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
at 12:35 p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Finance Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:
3374
Thank you, Senator Skelos. There will be an
immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk that we could do at
this time?
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: Yes,
there is. There are a few motions at the
desk.
Senator Leibell.
Senator Leibell, can you wait one
second, please? Will the sergeant-at-arms
please shut the doors on both sides of the
aisle. Thank you.
Senator Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President,
I'd like to call up Bill Print Number 2101,
recalled from the Assembly, which is now at
the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3375
164, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2101, an
act to amend the Highway Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO:
Senator Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: I now move to
reconsider the vote by which this bill was
passed.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The
Secretary will call the roll on
reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The
bill is restored to its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
Senator Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President,
I now offer the following amendments.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The
amendments are received and adopted.
Senator Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President,
on page number 5, I offer up the following
amendments to Calendar Number 39, Senate Print
Number 6043, and ask that the said bill retain
3376
its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill retains its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: I just wanted to
comment that was very well done, Senator
Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
is there any other housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: Not
at this time, Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Then we'll stand
at ease, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The
Senate will stand at ease.
(Whereupon, the Senate stood at
ease at 12:40 p.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
at 1:15 p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3377
if we could return to reports of standing
committees, I believe there's a report of the
Finance Committee at the desk. I ask that it
be read at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports
of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 6250A, Budget Bill, an
act making appropriations for the support of
government, Legislature and Judiciary Budget;
6252C, Budget Bill, an act making
appropriations for the support of government,
Public Protection and General Government
Budget;
6253C, Budget Bill, an act making
appropriations for the support of government,
Transportation and Economic Development
Budget;
6254C, Budget Bill, an act making
appropriations for the support of government,
Health, Mental Hygiene and Environmental
Conservation Budget;
3378
6255C, Budget Bill, an act making
appropriations for the support of government;
6257B, Budget Bill, an act to amend
the Environmental Conservation Law;
6259B, Budget Bill, an act to amend
Section 9 of Chapter 533 of the Laws of 1993;
6256B, Budget Bill, an act to amend
the Education Law and the Executive Law;
6260B, Budget Bill, an act to
authorize and direct the Comptroller;
And Senate Print 7431, by Senator
Leibell, an act to provide a temporary
retirement incentive.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, all bills direct to third reading.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go back to the controversial
calendar, beginning with Calendar Number 900,
regular order.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 900.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3379
900, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2312A, an
act to amend the Parks, Recreation and
Historic Preservation Law and the General
Municipal Law.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, Senator Dollinger has requested an
explanation of Calendar 900.
SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr.
President. I'll be rather brief in the
explanation, because I don't think it really
needs too much.
This is a bill that would authorize
municipalities to create, quote, unquote,
Adopt-A-Park programs. We in this state
currently have a program which allows the
adoption of pieces of highway by various civic
organizations. This just mirrors that
legislation that's already in place, but
authorizes parks to be actually adopted by
civic groups or other organizations.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
3380
Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield to
just one question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Kuhl, will you yield for a question?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President. Senator Kuhl, this is a good
idea that we adopt a park, much like they
adopt a highway. But why is it a central or
why is it necessary to include in the bill a
waiver of liability for the acts of those
people who are improving, altering, cleaning
up municipal parks?
SENATOR KUHL: We have found,
Senator, from past experience with the
transportation program, that if indemnity is
not included for those volunteers who go out
of their way and contribute their time and
services, that they just don't participate.
You probably have experienced and
remember in your lifetime the experiences that
we've had with organizations like the Little
League and Boy Scouts and other volunteer
3381
organizations where there's a service that's
provided but it's very difficult to get people
to volunteer their time as corporate
officials, et cetera, because of the liability
that they undertake, potentially, for
something that really is of no wrongdoing of
their own.
But that's what we have found, is
that experience really has lent itself to
limiting the availability of volunteers. And
so we don't wish to punish somebody because
they cut the grass in some park at 2 inches
and a half when it should have been cut at
2 inches, and all of a sudden somebody trips
on the length of the grass and they find
themselves under a lawsuit.
So that's the reason why the
indemnification is there.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one
other question, if Senator Kuhl will yield.
His answer brought up a question which I
hadn't thought of.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3382
Kuhl, do you yield for another question?
SENATOR KUHL: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, Senator Kuhl, wouldn't -- under
the circumstances of cutting the grass or
other things, wouldn't the town or the
municipality that owns the park indemnify the
local Boy Scouts or the volunteers that are in
the park?
I mean, wouldn't they be covered
within the shield of the municipal liability?
SENATOR KUHL: Well, they might
be, Senator. But as you know as a lawyer, the
common approach is to shotgun everybody, you
sue everybody.
And obviously, if that were to
happen with this kind of statutory relief, it
would simply take a motion to dismiss based on
the statutory provisions that there is
indemnification, and they'd automatically be
excluded.
I'm not so sure, if your suggestion
is that we eliminate this indemnification
3383
clause, that it would not have to go to
conclusion in a lawsuit and there be
representation which incurs additional
expenses on these individuals, who are
essentially just trying to volunteer.
They want to, as you can see from
the language of the bill itself, Senator -
and I don't mean to backtrack from your
question, but I'm just trying to outline to
you the motivation for this is to utilize free
volunteer labor to try to beautify the
community.
You may remember President Bush -
not George W., but George Herbert Walker
Bush -- in his inaugural address talked about
a thousand points of light. Well, in that, he
was referring to a number of people in a
community who would participate in a volunteer
program.
And that's what this is meant to
do, is to build on and make it easy for an
individual to actually volunteer their time
with no threat to them, if in fact they do
something -- not intentionally, certainly,
because that's a whole different issue, in
3384
that intentional negligence would not be
indemnified under this statute. But if they
just were to, say, they forgot to lower the
mower to 2 inches and they mowed it at
3 inches, well, should they be held
accountable for that? The answer is no.
Because you always have the
corporate responsibility of the town or
whoever owns the park to actually hold to a
certain standard. That has not changed in
this statute. It certainly just indemnifies
the individuals, the volunteers who
participate in this very worthwhile program.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, just one other thing. I just
want to make sure I understand one -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, don't promise anymore, please.
Senator Kuhl, do you yield for
another question?
SENATOR KUHL: I think I'll
answer this one with either a yes or no and
maybe that will not kind of give Senator
Dollinger some thought about another question.
So yes, I'd be happy to yield.
3385
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: You've
referred a number of times to indemnity. This
bill talks about immunity for them. Is
that -- are we just -
SENATOR KUHL: I think it was
just a question of semantics, Senator.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think
you're right.
Just on the bill briefly.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you to
Senator Kuhl.
This bill, like many other bills
that we've done, says that when not-for-profit
groups are involved in providing public
services, that they should somehow be exempted
or immune from civil liability that flows from
their conduct. As Senator Kuhl properly
points out, simply for their negligent
conduct. If they are guilty of intentional
tort or reckless or otherwise outrageous
practices, they would forfeit their immunity.
3386
My concern is -- and it has been, I
think, somewhat consistent -- that when
not-for-profit volunteers undertake to provide
services to the public, from the public's
point of view, if they slip on a sidewalk
that's cracked or if they go into a park and
are running full speed and run into a stone, a
boulder that's below the grass, they quite
frankly could care less whether it's the
municipality who provided the service or a
not-for-profit group who actually undertook
the care and maintenance.
Because from their point of view,
they're hurt, they're damaged, they're injured
in reliance upon the fact that this is public
property and that they thought the public
entity had an obligation to find out whether
it was dangerous or whether there were risks
in the property that they weren't aware of.
You think about the person playing
flag football who trips in a hole, or
whatever. They're relying -- from the
public's point of view, they're relying on the
integrity and the solvency of the public
entity that owns the property and that has the
3387
obligation to maintain it.
My concern is that when we invite
not-for-profit groups in to provide those
quasi-public services, like maintaining
highways, like maintaining parks, that they
should be held to the same level of liability
in the laws of this state as the government
that sponsors them or the government that
allows them to come on the site.
So when we create immunity, when we
say that you can do something but you are
immune from civil liability, my concern is
that we lower the standard of care, we lower
the protection for an unsuspecting public that
is out walking through the park, running
through the park, playing in the park.
I think Senator Kuhl's bill does
lots of good things. However, because it
creates immunity for those who are undertaking
quasi-public functions, I think that part of
it, Mr. President, is misguided, and I'll be
voting in the negative as a consequence.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Debate is closed.
3388
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect 180 days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. In
relation to Calendar Number 900 -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Could we
see the negative votes on this again, please.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 900 are
Senators Connor, Dollinger, and L. Krueger.
Ayes, 54. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1014, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6221, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to alternative.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3389
Larkin, an explanation has been requested of
Calendar 1014 by Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Senator Dollinger, this bill was
requested by the New York State Assessors
Association to create a new system to address
the problems that they have experienced
statewide surrounding the assessments of large
properties within counties.
It corrects the inequities that
took place in the apportionment of school
districts, special districts, county taxes,
when the equalization rates are applied based
on market value surveys conducted by the
Office of Real Property Services of the State
of New York, while the property assessed has a
different value according to the local
assessor.
This bill creates a special
equalization rate for those counties to apply
the apportioned tax following a calculation
for large parcels owned by companies such as
utility companies, large research facilities,
and large tracts of timberland.
3390
The problem is that the assignment
of these parcels has made a difficult
assessment for both the state and the local
property taxpayers. The consequence is that
under the current system, Richard, the average
landowner can see their property's value year
by year with no solution. And both the real
property tax directors feel that this is a
problem, and the assessors say the only way to
do this is to do what we plan.
This bill solves the problem by
establishing a way to segregate these parcels
when determining the equalization tax rate for
all other parcels. This will only occur, only
occur with truly large parcels where there is
a disagreement between the state and the
locals as to the true assessed value.
Now, when you start to look at that
piece of property that we're talking about,
the parcel is deemed to be a large parcel if
all of the following conditions are met: The
parcel constitutes 5 percent or more or of the
total assessed value to establish the state
rate; the state assesses the property at
$5 million or more; and the percentage
3391
difference between the state and the local
rate is at least 5 percent.
And the assessors feel that this is
the key to solving this problem, which is
occurring more and more throughout the state.
And it's also occurring, Richard, on property
that -- large, large tracts that comprise
parts of more than one county.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Larkin, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I
understand this bill, Senator Larkin, this
says that in those unique, big parcels of
property -- like, for example, the Xerox plant
in Webster, which is a major portion of the
overall tax assessment -- if there's a dispute
between the value assessed by the local
3392
assessor and the value assessed by the state
real property tax people, what happens then?
I mean, there's a dispute, in
essence, between the value of the assessed -
the estimated fair market value between the
local assessor and the statewide real property
tax people. How is that dispute settled?
SENATOR LARKIN: The local
assessor will be the beneficiary of this,
Richard. As long as those three areas that we
were -- said they had to be met, our local
assessor's assessment will hold up.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. I
think I got the answer I was looking for.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
The debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3393
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1182, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4287,
an act to amend the Education Law, in relation
to the inclusion.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I have an
explanation, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
LaValle, Senator Dollinger has requested an
explanation of Calendar Number 1182.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Very simple,
Senator Dollinger. The purpose of the bill,
and it's very straightforward, is to ensure
that the SUNY trustees, the CUNY Board of
Trustees, and the Board of Regents give a
fiscal impact statement when resolutions are
adopted or their rules and regulations are
altered and amended.
I think we need to know what the
fiscal impact is when we change the standards,
for instance, just to pick one thing, what the
impact will be on that change.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you,
3394
Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
Senator LaValle, do you yield for a
question?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I
think this is a good bill. I simply want to
understand to whom it applies.
It applies to the CUNY Board of
Trustees, the SUNY Board of Trustees -
SENATOR LAVALLE: And the Board
of Regents.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: And through
you, Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield
to one other question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
do you yield?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would you
support including this concept in fiscal notes
3395
that are done as part of state legislation,
such as mandates to CUNY or SUNY or whenever
we mandate that curriculums be changed? As
we've debated on the floor of this about
mandates and other things, oftentimes there
are very unrealistic fiscal notes attached.
They say the expense will be minimal.
And as you know, as an educator,
the expense of redesigning a curriculum
statewide can actually be very expensive.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Yeah.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would you
suggest that this should be done as part of
state legislation as well?
SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I
think we have fiscal notes that are attached
when we make a legislative change.
And I would tell you also that over
the years many members have had bills because
we often get, from the local government
bodies, that whatever we do here is posing an
unfunded mandate. And we have -- I know I
have, and we've passed it in this house, that
we should not have unfunded mandates.
And I think you also know, Senator,
3396
you've served in this body, and the other
members, that it really gets into a matter of
semantics. We give X number of aid, and often
we say, well, that money that aid can
certainly go towards the funding of a specific
mandate and so forth. And we get into the
word game and we get into the blame game with
this.
Here, however, what we are
specifically trying to do, based on a number
of cases where the appointed boards have put
on our plate a mandate and then we have had to
come up with the funding to fund those
regulatory changes, the changes by resolution
of various things -- and again, I use
something that we all can identify with in
this body, not to pick solely on the Board of
Regents, but the standards is the most visible
and troublesome one for all the members of
this body and certainly the Assembly.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. Just briefly on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm going to
3397
vote in favor of this bill.
I think Senator LaValle properly
points out that -- I would have been
fascinated to see the fiscal note that
accompanied the standard imposition. Because
as you and I have discussed, and a number of
members in this chamber, the standards
implementation, if we're really serious about
it, is a multi-million-dollar expense,
especially in those school districts, as
you're well familiar, Senator LaValle, where
standards compliance has been enormously
difficult.
That the cost there, to be fair and
apply across the board a standard for test
scores, a standard for competence, we'd have
to apply the same standard for funding, and
that's an enormously costly expense. One that
we're chipping away at -- at least from my
point of view, not quickly enough -- but
nonetheless started down the road.
I'll vote in favor of this bill,
Mr. Chairman. I just -- my only comment to
Senator LaValle is I know we do a whole number
of bills here that have fiscal notes attached
3398
to them where the fiscal note, in my judgment,
is a not a realistic appraisal of the
consequences of our actions. I think if we
start by telling the regulatory bureaus and
the Education Department that we ought to do
it, it would make good sense.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
The debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. I'd like unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
900, S2312A.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Duane will be recorded in
3399
the negative on Calendar 900.
Senator Andrews.
SENATOR ANDREWS: Thank you, Mr.
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 900.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Andrews will be recorded in
the negative on Calendar 900.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
controversial reading of the calendar.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can we at this time call up Calendar Number
1208.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read Calendar 1208.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1208, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7431,
an act to provide a temporary retirement
incentive for certain public employees.
SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a
message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a message at the desk.
SENATOR BRUNO: I would move that
3400
we accept the message.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can we at this time take up Supplemental
Calendar 40A and go in regular order.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
3401
Secretary will go to Calendar 40A and read in
regular order.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1199, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9750A and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6250A,
Third Reading Calendar 1199.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1199, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9750A, an act making appropriations for
the support of government, Legislature and
Judiciary Budget.
SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a
message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a message at the desk.
SENATOR BRUNO: I would move that
we accept the message.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity signify by saying aye.
3402
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President and
colleagues, this is the first of what I
believe will be 11 bills pertaining to we in
this chamber passing a budget for the people
of this state.
As most of you know, we have had a
very difficult year here in New York State, as
a consequence of 9/11, the recession that we
were in, and having to contend with a deficit
that's projected between this year and next
year to amount to up to $7 billion.
But here today we are going to,
together, adopt a budget that will amount to
$89.6 billion that will be spent really on
behalf of the people of this state in so many
positive and productive ways. And the budget
is prepared in a way that the revenue that is
3403
created and the expenditures that take place
call upon some of the reserves that we had,
together with the Governor, put aside for such
circumstances as exist today.
We had a reserve of approaching
$5 billion. Much of that money will be
helpful in accomplishing meeting the needs of
the people this year.
We will have $14.6 billion in
education as a consequence of what we do.
That's an increase in operating aid of
$610 million. That's on top of four record
years for education for the people of this
state.
Overall spending in this budget
will go up by about 6 percent, and that's
thanks to about $2.5 billion of federal money
that passes through the state on behalf of our
needs.
We have in this an early retirement
plan that we just approved that will help
people who want to leave government service,
in the neighborhood of about 5,000 or 6,000
that we feel this will attract. It saves
about $55 million in terms of the costs of
3404
keeping people on the state payroll.
It does things like create about
$1.2 billion in economic development funds to
help stimulate the economy, help our
businesses be competitive with other states,
and help create jobs. Consequently, the
revenue helps pay the costs of education,
health care, and all of the other needs that
we have.
It has a 3 percent COLA for the
healthcare workers that were left out of some
other good work that we did in HCRA.
It has $70 million in multimodal
money for roads and for bridges that will be
spent, which was primarily a Senate
initiative.
There is $1.75 billion in general
dollars that will be bonded out for roads and
bridges in the mass transit part of what is
happening here in the state.
We have the Liberty Zone money that
will help in terms of the recovery down there
in Senator Connor and Speaker Silver's
district, and many of us that are relating to
what is going on there in New York City. That
3405
will be extremely helpful.
There are ten new Empire Zones that
will be operative as a result of what we pass
today. And that again will be of great
consequence in creating jobs, in helping our
businesses be competitive.
Accumulatively, there's about, with
the federal pass-through money that has to do
with the accelerated depreciation of about
30 percent, what will amount to about a
billion dollars in tax relief in this budget
consequently to the people of this state.
So we are -- and I'm going through,
there's another piece in this that has to do
with helping emergency relief people be
attracted to that kind of public service. It
will be a tuition program that will help
attract people and retain them, such as we
have done in the past for others. And we
think that is extremely important.
Going through quickly some of the
highlights, there are a lot of other good
things that will be taking place as we talk
about and debate. Have we done everything
that everyone would like to have done in this
3406
budget? Of course not. There isn't enough
money, there are not enough resources in the
world to do everything that everyone would
like to have done.
What we are doing as a consequence
of our actions here, though, will provide
relief to New York City of up to a billion
dollars in terms of what has happened there,
with their $3.8 billion shortfall. Record
amounts of school aid, as we have discussed.
This is a constructive, productive,
responsible budget. And while we do all of
this, we are reducing the general fund
spending by a billion dollars, 2.6 percent.
First time since 1995 here in this state.
So it's responsible, it's prudent,
and it's responsive to meet the needs of the
people here in this state.
So I thank my colleagues on both
sides of the aisle, thank the staff people
that have been working literally through the
night for days, if not weeks, to help us get
to where we are today.
And if our life goes as it should,
hopefully this afternoon, in early daylight
3407
hours, we will have completed a task that all
of us can be extremely proud of.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Budgets of course are something
that New York State has struggled with to get
done on time for years now. The process this
year frankly appeared -- while it still
suffered from what the Governor characterized
as three men in a room, it appeared to go much
more smoothly in these difficult circumstances
in which we find ourselves, yet we are a bit
late.
And I suggest, Mr. President, that
at some point -- and I know there have been
various proposals -- we bite the bullet and
adjust the fiscal year. Because it's just
gotten to be in the best of times a complex
process that perhaps the people who wrote -
well, I know the people who wrote our budget
process into the constitution could not have
really contemplated how complicated and
3408
detailed it would get and how large it would
get. So I think under the best of
circumstances, with a lot of cooperation, it
still becomes impossible to meet that old
April 1st deadline.
That said, there are certainly
things in this budget that I could point out
and say we didn't do enough. There are -- as
Senator Bruno pointed out, there are always
good things that just don't make it because
you don't have enough resources.
I think in this year, with our
crashing revenues, both for the economy and
certainly the impact of September 11th is
still being felt -- and if any who don't get
to New York City, any of my colleagues who
don't get to New York City frequently would go
down there, you would see Lower Manhattan
fighting to come back, people, small business
owners and others working to rebuild.
But the fact is we're probably
missing 150,000 jobs in those so many square
blocks. And so if you're a small business
owner, you just don't have the traffic, you
don't have the volume. Even though you got
3409
some loans to recover from the fact that your
store or your shop was closed for a couple of
months, now that you're reopened, you don't
employ those three or four people that you
used to employ in your delicatessen. The
shoemaker down there, it's just the proprietor
now where it used to be three or four people
working there, because of the volume of
people.
So we certainly miss those jobs
that were there and the revenue they brought
us in financial and other service industries.
But we still have a lot of businesses down
there. You know, there's some 14,000
businesses in Lower Manhattan that just,
whether it's a restaurant or a bar or a
shoemaker or a retailer, they're just not
getting the volume of business. Which means
they're not employing the number of people and
they're not collecting the sales taxes and
other revenues for the state. So we do suffer
from that.
That said, I have to say I am
voting for this budget because on balance,
even in difficult times, this budget does
3410
reflect what I believe the priorities ought to
be.
I believe that no matter how
limited your resources are, you have to work a
budget to make sure you take care of
New York's future and the future of our
children. And their future is in education.
The future economy of the state depends on our
children's future in education.
And so the fact that in a very,
very difficult year we were able to fund
education at the level at which it's funded
here -- certainly for New York City to avoid,
I believe, given the cooperation of the mayor,
avoid some very, very drastic cutbacks.
Mr. President, my own son, who's in
public school, in his preregistration a couple
of months ago was told: "Next year we may
only offer six hours of instruction instead of
nine hours." I mean, you know, when you're in
school an hour is 40 minutes. But, you know,
nine periods of instruction is kind of the
norm. They were going to give six.
Hopefully we've avoided this. And
that will mean something for all those kids.
3411
And for the future, as we rebuild, as we
rebound, we have to have that future there.
That's the key to rebounding and rebuilding.
We've also, in this budget, Mr.
President, I think kept some other priorities
at the fore: investing in economic
development, attracting businesses to
New York, retaining business in New York,
providing health care, maintaining programs
for our elderly. In essence, Mr. President,
reflecting the values that certainly we
espouse and adhere to.
So I would look at the revenue side
of this, Mr. President, and say it's a little
raggedy in places. That's what has to happen
in a difficult year. Yes, funds are moved
around. Certainly every loose piece of cash
sitting in a reserve fund is scooped up. But,
Mr. President, it's scooped up for a good
purpose. It's scooped up to get us through
this year and still maintain our priorities
and our values, still provide for education,
health care and opportunity for New Yorkers,
and provide for rebuilding our state,
rebuilding Lower Manhattan, revitalizing our
3412
economy.
So, Mr. President, I intend to vote
yes. I encourage my colleagues to recognize
the realities reflected in this budget, to
recognize the values reflected in this budget,
and vote yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I'm mindful of the comments of the
Majority Leader and my good friend Marty
Connor. But as I stand here today, I can't
help but think that this is an opportune day
to do this budget. There's a brand-new
blockbuster movie called "The Attack of the
Clones" that is opening in every theater
across this nation. And, Mr. President, I'm
here to announce that I can tell you what
happens in the movie, even though I haven't
seen it, because I have an experience with it
right here. The answer is the clones win.
Because today we are cloning a
budget process that we thought was a terrible
idea six or eight years ago. We have cloned a
3413
process that says we will abandon conference
committees, we will abandon a process of
talking about this budget in public before
we're asked to vote on it.
And quite frankly the rebellion
that started, that wonderful rebellion in
which we were going to rise and somehow throw
out the old process, throw out the old empire
of secret, quiet budget negotiations, even
though they may reach somewhat beneficial
results, we were going to throw that process
away.
Remember the rebellion? We were
all part of the rebellion. It was wonderful.
We sat publicly, we had some discussions about
the budget process, about budget priorities.
We talked about it in public. We had members
of the minority and majority conferences.
That was what the great rebellion, I thought,
was all about.
And sure enough, what we find today
is that the attack of the clones has
succeeded. We have once again cloned a budget
process that we all thought was a bad idea.
Lastly, Mr. President -- I'll again
3414
be brief -- the danger of this budget is quite
frankly, from my point of view, this is a dead
canary budget. This is a silent canary
budget.
You're all familiar with that old
story of the miners throughout the early part
of this nation; remember, they always kept a
canary down in the bowels of the mine. And as
long as the canary was singing, you didn't
have to worry about the coal gas, you didn't
have to worry about the danger of explosion.
So long as the canaries kept singing, you
could keep working in the mine.
Well, from my point of view, Mr.
President, this is a dead canary budget. The
canaries have stopped singing. If you look
through this budget, you will find canary
feathers everywhere, because it is not
fiscally prudent. We are propping up in this
mine, with very loose timbers, a budget
structure, a debt structure, a future
financing structure that is destined to come
tumbling down.
The gas is leaking everywhere in
the fiscal house of New York, and we who are
3415
its decision-makers can't smell the gas.
My suggestion is, Mr. President,
that the canaries have stopped singing
throughout this state. The bodies are already
lying dead in the canary houses, up in the
birdcages, but we can't smell it yet. But the
scent is unmistakable: fiscal tragedy, fiscal
sacrifice of unparalleled proportions is going
to be dictated by this budget.
For that reason, Mr. President,
because the canaries have stopped singing in
New York, I will not be voting for this or any
other part of it.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Senator Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I will be voting against this bill
for a number of reasons. First and foremost,
I suppose, is the fact that we received this
bill today.
Senator Dollinger mentioned the
fact that we didn't have conference
committees. I think it's important for the
3416
people of New York to know that there is no
process where the Legislature is involved as a
whole in the drafting of bills. And that is
bad policy, and it is bad for the State of
New York, and it is certainly bad for my
constituents.
But specific to this bill, it also
is very disturbing on one day's or even a few
hours' reading to learn that while I am
pleased that the number of people in New York
State going to our prisons has decreased and
thus we will be reducing the number of
corrections workers by 983 workers and saving
$51 million because of a drop in the number of
people going into our prisons because of a
drop in our crime rate, I don't understand why
we'd still be adding an additional $30 million
to the capital plan for prisons when we know
that our participation rate is decreasing.
I'm also very disturbed that in a
very difficult economic year, where we have to
make hard decisions about what we're funding
and what we're not, that we still decided to
go forward with a $21 million new garage on
Elk Street, or $89 million for the Alfred E.
3417
Smith Building.
I find it hard to believe that
without debate and information available to
all of us that we might all think that that
amount of money spent for those items, when we
don't have money to ensure that our
schoolchildren have schools to go to, that
we're not addressing overcrowding, is a good
priority of our money in this state this year.
And I'm particularly disturbed that
this budget and this specific bill continues
the unfair formulas that -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger, excuse me a moment.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly,
Senator Meier.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Can we
have some order in the chamber, please.
Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I'm particularly disturbed about
the funding formulas within revenue sharing
and local aid within this specific budget
bill, which continues a historical pattern of
3418
cheating my city, the City of New York, out of
its fair share of funding in the New York
State budget.
Because the information we've been
provided is misleading. It is not that the
City of New York receives 58 percent of local
aid assistance. That's only one specific
budget item, revenue sharing. In fact, when
you add up all of the lines within this bill
for local government assistance, New York City
receives only 36 percent of the funding -
totally unrepresentative of the people of my
city or the needs that we face.
In addition, it follows a
historical pattern now of the last decade
where my city has seen a drop of 32 percent of
state aid as a share of the state budget for
localities.
And so while I believe I may be
voting no on other budget bills today, I
needed to stand to explain my vote today on
why there are specifics within this budget
bill that are unfair, inequitable, bad choices
for New York State's dollars in a tight
economy, and in fact to share with everyone
3419
the fact that this is no way to do a budget
process, without conference committees,
without an opportunity for legislators and the
public to have a transparent opportunity to
look at the budget before we go in and vote on
it on the floor.
Thank you very much, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I'm voting against the budget
today. And we'll have a number of budget
bills, but I'm voting against them for pretty
much the same reasons. It's really
embarrassing, I think, on how our budget
process works. It's still just three guys in
a room cutting a deal.
When I first came here, the process
of using conference committees started. I
guess those days are gone. I guess we're not
going to do conference committees anymore. So
rather than expanding what it was that we
started to do when we started to reform the
process here, I guess that's now been totally
3420
abandoned.
There wasn't even any discussion of
conference committees this year. It's an
absolute disgrace. An absolute disgrace. The
conference committees as they were weren't
that much to crow about, but they were better
than the way this process is being done. And
yet, rather than building on conference
committees and trying to improve them and give
them real meaning, they are now gone. Are
they gone forever?
I don't really understand how we
can accept that in this body. I'm not at all
happy, and I can't imagine how anyone can be
happy that we've gone back backwards on what
the process is. No way for most of us to even
participate in the process.
You know, though I heard on the
news last night that all of this was being
printed up, actually all of this was just
placed on my desk. And I had a chance to be
briefed. And I have to say that the staff of
the Minority did a terrific job on briefing us
in the short period of time that they had to
go over this. For us to be able to pore
3421
through all of this on less than an hour's
notice is an absolute, complete and utter
disgrace.
I don't think anybody doubts but
that this budget is going fall apart, probably
before the November elections. But we
probably won't deal with the pain that this
budget is going to cause until after the
November elections.
With the ridiculous tax cuts that
keep going, it's like the -- that Energizer
Bunny. You know, those tax cuts just keep on
going. We completely and totally cannot
afford the tax cuts. We can't pay for the
things that are in this budget.
There are several things, many
things in this budget which I think are good.
You know, the -- for instance, just to pick
out one thing, there is additional money for
AIDS services and AIDS prevention. But that
had nothing to do with the Senate. That was
all the Assembly that did that.
The Governor did baseline one small
amount of a restoration which the Assembly has
made year after year. But we get no credit
3422
for the increased funding, AIDS funding.
That's totally Assembly add-ons. It has
nothing to do with us. Perhaps if that had
been negotiated in a conference committee, we
could have taken some credit for it. But we
don't deserve any credit for that here at all.
That we will continue to enact tax
cuts and spend irresponsibly is ridiculous and
an embarrassment. We will be back here, I'm
sure, after the November elections to fix the
terrible budget which we're passing today.
I just -- I have to repeat that in
terms of the process by which budget decisions
are made around here, in the four years that
I've been here we've gone backwards. And it's
totally unacceptable. I think that's why
we're going to have to enact term limits or
something to change the way things are done.
I'm going to vote no on this. I'm
going to vote no on each and every one of the
budget revenue and expense budgets, both the
language and the actual money parts of the
budget. And I really think that we're going
to have to hold our heads in shame on the way
that this budget has been enacted today.
3423
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Debate is closed -- I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
SENATOR HANNON: I'll explain my
vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No, wait
a minute. Senator Hannon, I apologize. We
have a list going, it's been pointed out to
me -- and I'm discombobulated temporarily -
Senator Mendez, and then Senator Marchi. If
you wish to be added to the list, fine.
Senator Mendez.
SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I am going to vote in support of
all the budget bills today. I think that the
budget that has been crafted meets the needs
not only of my constituents but of all
New Yorkers in the City of New York.
It is the kind of budget that -
the best kind of budget that within the
circumstances could be devised. So that the
philosophical question would be because we do
3424
not like the process -- and I know that there
are many Senators here, on both sides of the
aisle, that they have qualms about how we
arrived in New York State to a final budget.
The question is, then, should we
vote against the budget because we do not like
the process? Should we do that? Well, my
dear ones, perfection only in heaven. And
after September the 11th, after the economic
loss that this state has suffered, I'll tell
you, you have to be pragmatic and accept the
real facts of life. Number one, the needs of
seniors is being taken care of. There is
monies for economic development. There is
monies for health care, from children to
seniors, in all stages of life.
So that I disagree with some of my
colleagues that are so annoyed at an ongoing
process. But the budget and the constituents,
the constituents in New York State should not
pay. Should not pay. We should not castigate
them because the process does not fall with
what we consider should be the process.
I vote yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3425
Marchi.
SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President,
I'm -- this is my 46th straight budget that I
will be voting on. And I'm very proud to have
been part of this system all the way. Not
only for the reasons assigned for supporting
the bill, but also for the fact that there
were some people who advanced their concerns.
That's as it should be.
You know, the old Jewish law stated
that if a vote was unanimous, that might have
meant that something was missed. But here
there surfaced some dissents, sincerely
offered, I assume and believe. But in any
event, I think added strength and resiliency
to the notion that we knew what we were voting
on, that we were doing our very best to meet
our responsibility.
And this was certainly a dramatic
reaffirmation -- not of a bad year, but it
wasn't the most robust in view of the recent
past. But we have met the challenge and we
have enjoyed, I believe, what will prove to be
the case in both houses, the support of the
decisional instrumentalities that we have in
3426
this state, Mr. President.
You know, anyone who spoke on this,
whether you were against it or for it, served
a very valuable purpose. So I congratulate
those. They should also take satisfaction and
joy out of the fact that they were part of a
process that brought us to view this budget.
Now, I've seen them all, and I've
been around the country. I've been on the
executive committee of the Council of State
Governments since 1965. There isn't a state
that I haven't seen or a set of circumstances
that I haven't encountered -- or meetings in
the White House, when we had to plead very
special circumstances for the circumstances
that we faced here in New York City
especially.
And again and again, that faith has
been justified. We can be proud of what we
are doing. And whether you're voting for or
against, the very fact that some of you
articulated concerns is not a bad message. It
just exalts us to keep our best efforts and
our objectives in line.
I've watched with genuine
3427
appreciation our Majority Leader in answering
press calls and other venues that sought
explanation. And he gave very detailed and
reasoned responses to all of their earnest
questioning. That's a process that I can
respect.
Is there anything better on the
face of the earth? I don't know. But in the
United States of America, I believe that we
can walk out of here with great pride and take
adequate satisfaction from the fact that we
have addressed these things.
And this goes to the credit of
everybody mentioned here -- the people who
helped so much in a very technical way, the
very important facts that sustained the
staffs, that sustained the reasoned process
that undergirded the entire drama and odyssey
of developing a budget of this dimension,
meeting the tailored needs of the greatest
state in the United States. And one which I
think in the eyes of objective observers will
say A to the process and certainly an A-plus
to the fact that it engaged the total
constituency that was making the decisions.
3428
So I'm very proud at this stage of
my life -- how many I have left, I don't know.
But I am proud to have this day. This is a
great day for all of us. There's no one here,
no matter how you're voting, that should
shrink away from the joy that comes from
participating in an effort such as this.
So God bless you all, and may it
always continue.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I certainly appreciate Senator
Marchi's words, and I'm sure he will be with
us for a long time to come.
I share the concerns some of my
colleagues have raised regarding the process
of the budget. However, I do think this year
we can claim credit for having made
significant improvements on the budget as
proposed by the Governor.
We are facing severe crises in
several areas in my district -- in education,
in the need for environmental cleanup and
3429
funding of environmental programs, in housing
and mass transit. And while this is a long
way from perfect, I do think that we have to
recognize that the Legislature has made major
improvements on the proposals submitted by the
Governor in many, many areas.
The one aspect of this budget that
will come up in a later bill that I cannot
support is the I believe overly optimistic, if
not completely deceptive legislation we're to
pass today regarding revenues. There is not
enough money in this budget to pay for the
programs we are funding.
I favor funding these programs. I
favor expanding these programs. But if we're
going to do it, let's tell our constituents
the truth: we have to raise revenues. And we
can do it smart, or we can do it stupid. Ten
years ago when the State of New York or
12 years ago when the State of New York ran
out of money, we did it stupid. And that
brought us things like the hotel room tax, the
lubricating oil tax, fee increases on
subpoenas, marriage licenses, license plates.
The way to deal with this issue is
3430
to recognize we have a temporary deficit that
can only responsibly be decreased by a
temporary increase in broad-based taxes.
That's the right tax policy, and that is the
only way we are going to address the needs of
our constituents without engaging in fiscal
chicanery.
There is not enough money in this
budget to get us through the year. And I urge
all of my colleagues that it's time to look in
the mirror and start thinking about telling
our constituents the truth.
Jokes sometimes reflect the
thinking of a lot of people on issues better
than serious commentary. And one joke that I
will share with you that I have heard today,
and repeated, is that when it came to the
revenue part of this budget, we understand you
tried to get Arthur Andersen to certify it,
but they said "Even we have some standards, we
can't really do that."
So let's not make ourselves a joke.
Let's be honest about the revenues in this
budget. I support the programs and the
restorations that we've managed to get, the
3431
Senate and the Assembly together. I cannot
support the revenue proposal. I think it's a
sham.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Bonacic.
SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, Mr.
President.
You know, the budget process is not
a perfect process. There's no perfect formula
at a point in time that you can do that says
unanimously that this is the way to go.
When I travel throughout the United
States and visit people in other states and
you mention you're from New York, there's a
feeling of sympathy, there's a feeling that
they know that we have been hurt badly. Our
state has been hurt more than any other state
in the United States. We have a fiscal crisis
because of 9/11.
Now, how do we take care of this
crisis? We can either control the fiscal
crisis or let it control us.
Now, we have a Governor who for
seven years changed the way we did business
3432
from 1993 and before, and it was tax-and-spend
policies. That is, I'm hearing from some of
the people on the other side, what we should
embrace to get us over this temporary hurdle.
But that's not the way the Governor
has elected to go. And that's not the way
this Legislature has elected to go on both
sides of the aisle in the Assembly and the
Senate.
What am I talking about? I'm
talking about, one, a billion dollars in tax
cuts, because it's worked prior to 9/11. It's
worked. We then, in addition, are going with
the Excelsior program, increasing it a hundred
million dollars. What is that? That is a
fund where we keep the interest rates down for
small businesses to access capital so that
they can survive or expand.
We have over a hundred thousand
jobs lost in the city. Our tourism is down
5.4 million in New York City. We shouldn't be
taxing the people more. The needs out there
are greater now than they were before 9/11.
Mass transit, the environment, the economy -
those needs were great then and they're even
3433
greater as a result of the terrorist activity.
They hurt New York more than they ever dreamed
they could hurt New York.
So how do we collectively come
together to help the people? We stepped up in
three areas. We stepped up in homeland
security, with public safety. We had no
choice. We've got to protect our people. We
stepped up on health care, in strengthening
the hospitals, the nursing homes, the
healthcare workers. This is what we've done
collectively. And we've stepped up to help
education.
Is it enough? Could there be more?
Absolutely, there could be more. There's an
insatiable need to always do more in
government. But we try to balance
limitations. We manage the state system.
That's what we do. And this moment in time,
today, we make a judgment. This is the budget
that we're going forward with.
And in addition, we have the
GE*NY*SIS program, $225 million, which we want
to do economic development, high-tech jobs.
The Empire Opportunity Fund, $50 million. We
3434
are making an investment. That's our game
plan: create economic vitality, hope that we
get out of a depression in New York, hope that
the recession gets better, hope that the
private sector comes back and gives us the
revenue we will want to meet our needs.
Now, let's say the doomsayers are
correct; six months from now, a year from now,
we came up short. We will take a snapshot
then and we will do what we have to to meet
the needs of the people.
So that's all we are we are
fallible, we make human judgments, we do the
best we can with the facts that we have. And
our choice was to take care of these three
areas: Health care, public safety, and
education. Mostly everything else is flat.
We're reducing the state payroll by roughly
$55 million. We hope to be 5,000 less -- not
in a painful way, in a voluntary way.
And I think -- I'm voting for this
budget, as well as the rest of them, because I
think under the circumstances we did the best
we could to meet the needs of the people. I
congratulate both houses that worked long and
3435
hard under very difficult circumstances.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stachowski.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Briefly, Mr.
President. I'm rising to support my leader,
Senator Connor, and the others that are going
to vote for this budget.
Is it the best budget we could do?
I don't know. But it's the budget we have.
And I think it's the best one available at
this time. Are there certain areas that could
be a little better? Maybe. Do we like to
increase fees? No. But you have to pay for
the things that are necessary. To get money
for education and economic development and
health care and senior programs, the money has
to come from somewhere. And dealt the hand
that we have, this is about the best we can
do, I think.
So with the fact that this is the
budget we have, I'm going to support it. I
think that Senator Connor and his remarks put
out all the reasons why I'm supporting it. I
think that he covered the bases on the fact
3436
that a lot of our values are in here.
Could it be a little better? Yes.
But did we ask for September 11th? No, we
didn't.
So for those reasons -- and as we
get into different bills, if there's something
else to mention, I'll mention it then -- I'm
going to vote along with Senator Connor and
support this budget and hope that it will be
the best package for the people of the State
of New York.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: After this
group of eloquent speakers and everything
being explained so well, I would only say,
because I feel that my silence might indicate
otherwise, it's a good budget.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard?
The debate is closed.
3437
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon, to explain his vote.
SENATOR HANNON: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I want to address myself to a
couple of points. People can have differing
points of view, but when they get into factual
errors, I think they need to be clarified.
We looked at a lot of different
things in the health budget, and I think
there's a number of different formulas. And I
believe that each one of the formulas that are
reflected in this budget equally treat the
needy parts of this state, whether it's the
city of New York or whether it's the most
sparsely populated county.
In addition to that, I heard
mention on this floor of the funding for AIDS
treatment. First of all, we continue the
3438
funding for the AIDS Institute at over
$110 million.
And, second, someone said, Well,
the Senate didn't have any part of that. That
couldn't be more factually inaccurate. We
advanced many additions. There are members
throughout the conference who reflected
concerns. From the end of Long Island to
Buffalo, the city of New York, all five
boroughs, we advanced restorations of the
community funds and targets including
specifically something I know that didn't come
out of the Assembly, communities of color.
I think we've done a good job. I
think we have done a good job with the
revenues available. I think it's always a
continuing challenge. And I'm happy to vote
for this in budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hannon will be recorded in the affirmative.
Senator Padavan, to explain his
vote.
SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, Mr.
President.
In explaining my vote, I'd like to
3439
respond briefly to a comment made earlier by
one of our colleagues relevant to that portion
of one of the budget bills that relates to
education aid for the City of New York. That
member could not be more incorrect in
categorizing this budget as it relates to
state aid education as it relates specifically
to the City of New York.
We are providing $163 million more
in direct formula aid for the City of
New York. In addition, we're providing some
$480 million in prior claims money, along with
a number of other initiatives that will help
the City of New York.
When you look at the budget that we
now have before us and you look at the number
of children in the City of New York as
compared to the rest of the state, we are
indeed getting that 37 percent.
Is it enough to meet all the
special needs? No, it is not. Does it meet
specifically the mandates of Judge DeGrasse in
the Campaign for Fiscal Equity case? No, it
does not. But it is a major step forward.
Particularly, as one of our other colleagues
3440
commented on, when you looked at the original
budget presented to us in January.
About an hour ago I received a
phone call from the Chancellor of the City of
New York in which he said he was very grateful
for what all of us were able to do in this
budget for the children in the educational
system that he runs.
This budget should and will provide
the resources to settle the teachers'
contract. It will and should prevent any
reductions in classroom resources, including
teachers. If you look at it in view of
everything else that's been said and
everything else that we've been dealing with
in the state, and in the city of New York in
particular, from the point of view of
education and our children this is a good
budget.
I vote aye.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Padavan will be recorded in the affirmative.
Senator Hassell-Thompson, to
explain her vote.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
3441
you, Mr. President. Just briefly.
I was not here for other budget
processes or attempts to talk about how this
budget was going to be done. But I have been
here -- this is my second budget. And I guess
my concern is reflected in my own personal
desire, as it is of my colleagues, to have a
more active role during the budgetary process
than we have.
Having said that, however, and
understanding many of the constraints, as I
have had a very brief opportunity to look at
this budget and try to digest it -- and we
will have to continue to do that even after
we've passed it -- I have to say to you that
in many ways I have a better sense of
satisfaction for this year's budget, given the
concerns and the constraints and the changes
that have occurred particularly in the state
of New York since last year; i.e.,
September 11th.
We know that there is never going
to be enough money for all the needs of the
people that come to the shores of New York.
We are an open city, and we welcome everyone
3442
to come. And in the process of doing that, we
encourage and invite people who bring a
variety of social needs that we attempt to
meet.
And for many people who don't
travel outside of this state and don't have a
sense of how other states do not respond at
all to the social needs of its community, they
need to do that a little bit. Because for all
of the complaints and concerns that we make,
and many of which are totally legitimate, the
State of New York makes the greatest effort to
respond to the social conditions of the people
who live within our boundaries.
Would I like to see more money in
housing? Absolutely. Would I like to see a
great deal more money in education? No doubt.
But I think that we have come closer this year
to having a dialogue that represents the needs
of our people better than we have had,
certainly than we did in last year's budget.
So I support it with all the
reservations and concerns, but support it I
do.
Thank you Mr. President.
3443
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the
affirmative.
Senator Duane, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
You know, I always hate to be
lectured about things. So -- and as I say, I
can't tell you exactly which page the AIDS
funding is in here. I did send a letter to
Senator Hannon, along with Senator Dollinger,
regarding AIDS funding. I can't say I got an
answer to my letter. Maybe Senator Dollinger
got an answer to it. But that's what stinks
about this process. If that is the case, I
don't know that. Nobody told me that.
FYI, I am a person living with HIV.
I have a very high incidence of AIDS in my
district. I was not informed about this. The
only additional money that I see in here,
aside from the making home care and adult
daycare AIDS facilities, the employees,
eligible for COLAs, is additional money which
I was under the impression the Assembly put
in. And I know I'm talking up time, but, you
3444
know, it's hard for me to find -- it's a total
of $5.3 million, of which $500,000 is for
communities of color.
Now, everything else in the budget
dealing with AIDS is exactly what the Governor
put in. I don't think that we deserve to get
a lot of credit for restorations. We wouldn't
have had to have cuts in the Executive Budget
if we hadn't enacted tax cuts. There would be
enough money for actual increases.
But I would love to know exactly
how much of the $5.3 million of new money is
because of the work of the Senate. Maybe it
will come to me in an answer to my letter.
Maybe it can be done in a meeting. But what
stinks about this process is that I don't
know. I'd like to know that; I don't know
that. There was no conference committee
meeting where that was discussed.
So I'm not going to apologize for
anything that I might not have known about
because the process stinks.
I'm still voting no, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the negative.
3445
Senator Malcolm Smith, to explain
his vote.
SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH: Thank you
very much, Mr. President.
I guess we all can agree that this
has probably been one of the most
unprecedented periods in our life and probably
will be recorded as one of the most difficult
budgets that we ever put together.
There are some very interesting
parts of this budget that do some very good
things. And clearly, as some of my colleagues
have said, there are some things that we would
like to add on.
But let me just say, in terms of
process, what I find interesting is there's
probably not one person sitting in this
chamber, at least that is elected, that did
not have to go through some rigorous process
in terms of being elected. And I believe when
they got elected it was not handed to them. I
believe they had to fight, they had to scrap,
they had to try to negotiate between a number
of individuals to recognize their position and
to get them to support their position.
3446
Well, I dare to say, Mr. President,
that that is similar to what happens here.
Notwithstanding whether or not there were
conference committees or conference committees
should have been held, the bottom line is in
order for you to have something done in this
chamber, you have to inject yourself into the
process.
I myself have been here for a
couple of years and I will tell you, Mr.
President, I have injected myself into this
process. And I am very pleased at some of the
things that I've been able to accomplish in
this particular budget. I'm not going to go
through the litany of them, because that's our
particular business individually as we
represent it.
But the bottom line is if, in fact,
you want to accomplish something in the
process as it stands, then you have to be a
part of the process. And the process is
simply this. When I was growing up, my father
used to tell me always you cannot hit a boxer
by being outside of the ring. If you want to
hit them, you have to be inside of that ring.
3447
Whether you tag them once or twice, he is
going to ignore you if you are outside of the
ring.
The bottom line is, we all have the
opportunity to be in the ring. The question
becomes what do you do when you're in there.
Do you sit in the ring and watch somebody
dance around and you complain about how they
dance, or do you try to follow them around and
from time to time tag them so they know that
you are in the ring?
Well, Mr. President, I have taken
the course of being in the ring. And I will
consistently try to tag the person in the
ring, whether or not they're the champion or
not, because I know as long as I tag them from
time to time, I will get some results. Which
I have gotten.
And I will be supporting this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Malcolm Smith will be recorded in the
affirmative.
Senator Balboni, to explain his
vote.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
3448
the members of this body who are voting
against this particular bill and the budget
bills to follow by saying that it somehow does
not do enough, it does not take into account
the needs of the state and is filled with
fiscal gimmickries, have the benefit of being
able to make those remarks because of the work
that has been done over the last seven years.
It is time to acknowledge the fact
that with the ascendency of Governor George
Pataki, working in partnership with this
house, the reserves were built up to
unparalleled levels. Never before in the
state's history have we had the luxury to
weather this type of a storm. And it was done
through great cost and great concern. Debates
outside this Capitol, thousands of people
marching, saying that we had to spend more and
we should not put money aside. But we did.
Thank God we did. For if we had not, we would
not be able to have this budget.
And for many of my colleagues that
are newer in the chamber, I assure you this
was something that was done at great cost, but
was very important. I vote aye.
3449
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni will be recorded in the affirmative.
Announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1199 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and L. Krueger.
Ayes, 55. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Montgomery, why do you
rise?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President, I would like unanimous consent to
be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1182.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 1182.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President. I would request unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar 900, Senate 2312A.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
3450
objection, Senator Schneiderman will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 900.
Senator Hassell-Thompson.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you, Mr. President. I too would like to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 1182,
Senate 4287.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Hassell-Thompson will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 1182.
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
with unanimous consent I'd like to be recorded
in the negative on Calendar Number 900.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Paterson will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 900.
The Secretary will read in regular
order.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1200, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9752C and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6252C,
Third Reading Calendar 1200.
3451
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1200, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9752C, an act making appropriations for
the support of government, Public Protection
and General Government Budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, is
there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a message at the desk.
SENATOR BRUNO: I would move that
we accept the message.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
3452
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, why do you rise?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: An
explanation, I think, was requested.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, an explanation has been requested by
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
this is part of the budget that provides for
funding public protection.
And we certainly all want public
protection. It is very serious. It provides
the necessary appropriation for funding the
3453
agencies charged with funding state services
and with protecting the health and safety of
New Yorkers.
Included in this appropriation bill
is $20 million in funding for a new local
wireless emergency 911 program. Also included
is $96 million -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Excuse
me, Senator Stafford.
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
the explanation is satisfactory.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, I believe there's an amendment at
the desk. I'd ask that the reading of it be
waived and I be allowed to be heard on it.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendment at the desk. The reading is waived
and you're recognized for the purpose of
explaining the amendment.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
3454
This is an appropriation to do
several things that affect the community of
Monroe. It includes about -- approximately
five specific items.
One is a $30 million appropriation
for the Rochester City School District. This
has the effect of repealing the transition aid
cap as it affects the city that I represent.
As I've been here on this floor
before, I've asked this body to eliminate the
transition cap, which prevents urban school
districts from receiving the proper amount of
money that they would otherwise receive under
the formula.
Rather than seek to repeal the
transition cap, which has not been approved
before by this house, this seeks an additional
$30 million to go directly to the city school
district.
Secondly, it requests $500,000 to
the Hilton Central School District, which I
currently represent a portion of. That money
is to restore money that they lost because in
a cost-cutting move they tried to move
students out of BOCES and back into the school
3455
district. As a consequence of reducing their
BOCES costs, through the formula they've
actually been punished by a reduction.
They're the only school district in Monroe
County that actually experiences about a
$600,000 loss in funding under the formula.
Third, it adds $10 million to the
Division of Human Rights budget so that we can
clean up what everybody admits is a
disgraceful backlog.
Fourth, it adds $50 million to the
Department of Health to give grants to
landlords for lead paint abatement. A raging
epidemic in urban communities, especially the
city of Rochester, lead paint poisoning
continues to damage the potential of our
children. Ralph Spezio, from School 17,
describes it as the hidden monster robbing
children of their potential.
And the last, Mr. President, is a
$5 million appropriation to Monroe County to
increase subsidies for daycare. They were cut
this year. This money will restore childcare
after January 1st for mothers and children and
families that are within between 150 and
3456
200 percent of the federal poverty limit.
I commend it to the house, and I
would ask my colleagues to support it.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very
much on, Mr. President.
At least one part of these
amendments, one of the amendments, the
amendment involving the Hilton Central School
District, let me say I was a little surprised
to read this amendment, since I represent the
village of Hilton and the Hilton Central
School District.
And today I did what Senator
Dollinger, I think, did not do. And I sort of
wondered why he did not do that. That was to
contact -- because when you look at the school
aid run, Senator Dollinger is correct in one
part, in that the Hilton Central School
District does stand out as having lost a
substantial amount of state aid this year when
everyone else seems to be going up. So you
have to wonder why did that happen.
Well, I had my staff of course
3457
contact the Senate Education Committee, under
Senator Kuhl, and the director, and we did -
we reached out to the superintendent of
schools, Dr. John Cooper, and went over each
and every line here and found out that of
course there is some building aid that's being
lost, because the building projects are
complete.
There certainly is some BOCES aid
being lost, because the Hilton Central School
District, at its option, moved some programs
out of BOCES back into their own district.
And they lost transportation aid, and we think
it's because -- or at least the superintendent
speculated it was because they had paid off
some transportation bonds for new school
districts.
Actually, the Hilton Central School
District, with the stabilization grant that is
included in this budget of some six hundred
and twenty -- almost $625,000, is going to be
receiving more money.
So why is Senator Dollinger wanting
to take $500,000 from any monies from the
general fund? I don't know where Senator
3458
Dollinger wants to take that money from. He
doesn't specify that. Perhaps a social
services program from the city of Rochester or
something like that.
What this is really about, Mr.
President, is political pandering and
reapportionment. Senator Dollinger is going
to be running in this portion of the district,
if of course these new lines are upheld.
Let me say that I have worked very
closely with the superintendent. And it's
unusual for a superintendent to tell me that
he's happy, once you go over it line by line
with him, that he's very satisfied with the
allocation he's getting from the State of
New York.
And then to see an amendment to
basically take $500,000 away from some very
worthy program, maybe in the city of
Rochester, and give it to a school district,
which I'm -- hey, any school district is going
to tell you, you know, "We can use more
money" -- but a school district that really
doesn't need it at this point and is quite
satisfied with the allocation that they got.
3459
So I want to say I'm aghast at this
shameless political pandering by Senator
Dollinger. I'm somewhat hurt -- Senator
Dollinger has stated, in many of his last five
press conferences, that he's friends with
everybody. I'm stunned that my friend would
do this to me, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: With all due
respect to my friend Senator Maziarz, I happen
to represent part of the Hilton Central School
District. I called and talked to the
superintendent, and I called and talked to the
financial director.
I went over the same information,
Senator Maziarz. And I don't know where you
got yours, but that's what I was told by Steve
Ayers and by the superintendent.
And frankly, for someone to stand
there and say this is political gamesmanship
on my part because of reapportionment -- I
represent the school district. I would
suggest, Senator Maziarz, I don't stand here
and say everything you do for your district is
3460
political gamesmanship. I'd say that that's
your advocacy.
I'd say Senator Balboni, in all of
our discussions about tax exemptions in his
district, I don't accuse him of political
gamesmanship. I think that's what he's doing
for his district.
But when I stand here and try to do
something for mine, the only way I can do it,
because I got the budget an hour ago, to put
an amendment in place to try to change the
process, you accuse me of political
gamesmanship?
I would suggest, Senator Maziarz,
as my friend, you ought to look into that
mirror. They ought to put up a mirror on that
side of the aisle and look at political
gamesmanship, which started, some say -- I
don't say this, Senator Maziarz -- with the
reapportionment plan that you approved, that
the gamesmanship started then.
The games began then, Senator
Maziarz. I'm just playing the game, so to
speak. I would say it's your game. I'm
trying to play.
3461
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Oh, I'm sorry,
was Senator Smith ahead of me on the list?
Oh, I'm sorry.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I'm glad that Senator Dollinger
admits that this is nothing more than
political gamesmanship. I didn't -- I don't
know how much of the Hilton Central School
District or how many students that live in
Senator Dollinger's current district attend
the Hilton School District. I can tell you,
though, Mr. President, I'm sure it's a very
small number compared to those who live in the
town of Parma, where I currently represent.
And I just don't think that we
should take $500,000 from any monies in the
general fund without specifying where they
should come from to give them to a school
district where the superintendent told me,
3462
Senator Dollinger, not more than one hour ago,
that after having looked at all of this that
he was satisfied.
Particularly since it is -- and I'm
looking at this very quickly -- the only
school district on the west side of Monroe
that is getting a stabilization grant in the
amount of $622,000.
SENATOR STAFFORD: I didn't get
one of those.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator
Stafford claims he is -- not one district in
his very large Senate district received one of
those.
So for the record, Mr. President,
I'm extremely gratified that Senator Dollinger
has admitted to exactly what this is,
political pandering.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This is political. Everything we
do here is political to some extent. And I
3463
think that we should get that on the record.
But sometimes things go to the
stratospheric level of political. And just a
couple of weeks ago, when some of us were
working very hard on trying to pull the City
of Rochester School District out of a
financial crisis that was self-imposed by one
party that has been ruling the City of
Rochester and that has been ruling the City of
Rochester School District for far too long,
there wasn't anything political about our
efforts to bring what has now, in this budget,
produced $20 million of additional aid to the
City of Rochester School District.
There was a concerted effort on
both parts of the political spectrum to do
what we could do, recognizing what the City of
Rochester School District -- again, one
party -- and the City of Rochester
government -- again, one party -- had done out
of complete and total ineptitude and
inefficiency, which was to produce a deficit
that had been unheard of before.
But here in Albany and back home,
those of us who were responsible in our
3464
efforts to produce this additional $20 million
were successful. The reason that we were
successful is that we were not trying to
grandstand on an issue that is far too
delicate and far too meaningful to the
taxpayers of the City of Rochester, which I
also represent.
Senator Dollinger and I go way back
to the Monroe County Legislature. We're good
friends; we will continue to be good friends.
But honestly, when I saw the news media
showing that the Senator was promising to
deliver $53 million when the state is in such
a stretched condition to provide money not
only from Rochester, Buffalo, some of the
other schools -- a $53 million promise that
was not only hollow, not only what Senator
Maziarz would describe as political posturing,
and what I would agree with Senator Maziarz
on -- is that some things are not totally
possible.
We would all like to have more
money for things in this budget. But we work
together. I don't remember having the
opportunity to work with Senator Dollinger on
3465
providing the $20 million that we have
provided, $6.1 million for full-time
kindergarten, an initiative that came from
this Senate on behalf of the city of
Rochester.
You might remember not too long ago
that I said when redistricting occurred and I
was able to take on a large number of people
that live in the urban core in the city of
Rochester, I said that I would work very hard
to serve their needs, just as I did to serve
the area that I lost.
There's $20 million that's in there
now for the City of Rochester that's part of
that promise, part of that effort. And I
think that when we're making promises on
television, when we're making promises in the
news media, when we stand up after the fact
and try to make amendments that are nothing
more than hollow gestures for the pure purpose
of political posturing, then we're doing no
good to anybody.
What does good is the kind of
efforts that have gone on in the last month or
so with members of the Assembly Ways and
3466
Means, the Senate Finance Committee, the
Second Floor, with members of the Senate and
the Assembly who represent the Rochester,
Monroe County area, to protect full-time
kindergarten, to grant more money for support
aid, to get more money from an effort that
Assemblyman Gantt and I initiated, as a
legislative initiative, to bring $10 million
more into the city of Rochester -- all of
which totals up to nearly $20 million for a
school district that was let down by the city
of Rochester and its Democrat mayor and its
Democrat board, the city school district that
was totally Democrat for far too many years,
one-party rule that hid a deficit.
That situation was resolved by good
faith and bipartisan efforts between members
of the Assembly and this Senate. And yet now
that one-party rule that has nearly devastated
not only the city of Rochester, which has
pulled out money from the city school
district, at the same time assailing its
management, and the city school district
itself -- working within such a crisis mode,
we stand here at this hour with some very
3467
good, well-meaning, hard work delivering
$20 million to the city school district.
And we have an amendment before us
which, as we know, is impossible to deliver
but is being delivered anyway in a fashion
that I think is meant only to garner
headlines.
I'm proud of the work that we did
on a bipartisan basis with the Assembly, with
the Senate, with the Governor's office, to
pull the City of Rochester School District out
of what was surely a crisis and what could
very easily be a crisis next year. And next
year we can't afford to reward inefficiency.
And this is a clear warning to the city school
district today that this might not happen if
they can't get their act together.
But at least we have to help them
today. We have done that. Let's not make
hollow promises. Let's not make people think
that we could have done more, when we did more
than maybe we should have done but we did it
anyways. Not to help the city school district
and its members, not to help the mayor and the
city board, but to help the kids that have
3468
been underserved by an inept school board and
by an inept city administration.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please signify by raising your hands.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Connor,
Dollinger, Duane, Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson,
Hevesi, L. Krueger, Mendez, Montgomery,
Onorato, Paterson, Schneiderman, A. Smith, M.
Smith. Also Senator Stachowski.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendment is defeated.
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment
at the desk. I would waive its reading and
request that I can be heard on the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendment is at the desk, the reading is
waived, and you are recognized to explain your
amendment.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
This is an amendment that has three
3469
components. And after the colloquy that just
took place, I want to emphasize something as I
request your support for this amendment.
As Senator Marchi so eloquently
stated, this is an interactive process. We
all play a role in this process. The debate
over this year's budget is far from over. And
anyone who doesn't think we will be back to do
more work on this year's budget, Senator
Connor has a bridge in his district he would
like to talk to you about buying.
We have to continue to raise issues
that are critical to our constituents, and
this amendment raises three such issues. This
amendment, first of all, would add $30 million
to reduce overcrowding in New York City
schools.
I appreciate that we're in
difficult fiscal times, but we cannot allow
another generation of children to be
inadequately educated if we truly care about
the long-term economic growth and health of
our state. In my district we have kids
learning in trailers, we have kids learning in
halls. We have got to address this issue -
3470
if not today, when we're back to do more
budget work later.
But I would strongly urge support
for this amendment so that we could add some
funds to deal with the severe overcrowding of
our public schools.
The second portion of this
amendment would provide $20 million for urban
open space preservation and urban land
acquisition. It is really -- we talk about
discrimination against about the city of New
York in school funding and in transit funding.
It is not as widely known that we have a
severe problem of discrimination in funding of
environmental programs.
Although New York City has 40
percent of the state's population, we receive
just 23 percent of Environmental Protection
Fund and Bond Act funds for acquisition. This
is the latest dates for which my information
is available, 1996 to 2000.
We have to deal with the
environmental crisis in our city. We have
asthma rates that are far beyond any level
that should be acceptable to anyone here. And
3471
I respectfully submit that in many of my
colleagues' districts in other parts of the
state, if you had those sorts of asthma
levels, you would be standing up with me
trying to push for more funding as well.
The final provision here would
correct what I believe is a very, very
severely misguided policy that will have a
devastating impact on many students in the
state and I believe also on the long-term
economic health of the state, which requires a
well-educated workforce.
This would reverse a recent
determination that requires undocumented
aliens who are New York City residents to pay
out-of-state tuition at the rate of
out-of-state students in our public
universities and colleges.
This is a severe problem. This
will throw many, many people out of college.
And as Senator Balboni stated earlier, we have
to do whatever we can do to bring our new
arrivals to bring our new immigrants into the
system, to help them become productive members
of our society. That's what they want.
3472
That's what we want.
This new policy is moving us in the
wrong direction, and this amendment would
reverse it. Senator Espada has sponsored a
bill that would do the same thing. I think it
is very, very important that we deal it with
it this session, and that is why I am placing
it in an amendment.
I urge all of my colleagues to vote
yes for these extremely modest additions to
the budget. And I don't really think that
anyone who represents the city of New York
would disagree with me on the necessity of all
three.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please raise your hands.
Again, I'd ask Senators to keep
your hands up so that the Secretary can
record.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Connor,
Dollinger, Duane, Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson,
Hevesi, Kruger, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato,
3473
Paterson, Sampson, Schneiderman, A. Smith, and
M. Smith.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendment is defeated.
Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill,
Mr. President, if I can just for a minute.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, on the bill.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, I tried to amend this bill to make
it a better bill. I'm not going to vote for
it because those amendments are not included.
But let me just respond to
something my colleague and friend Jim Alesi
said, Senator Alesi. I certainly respect
Jim's point of view. We've been debating
issues for the better part of the last 15
years.
I'm astounded that he would say
that one-party rule has some adverse effect.
I must have missed something, Mr. President.
Hasn't the same party been in control in this
house for the last 40 years? Isn't that the
definition of one-party control?
3474
And yet he said -- I believe he
said, and maybe I'm wrong -- that one party
was responsible for the financial problems in
the city school district. Does that mean that
the one party that's in control here in this
house is responsible for our current financial
plight? I guess it does. I guess that's what
happens when one-party rule occurs.
What I find astounding is that
you're so critical of it in the city of
Rochester and the city school board, but yet
I've never heard anybody on that side ever
criticize the one-party rule in this house,
which has gone on for the better part of -
well, Senator Marchi would know for sure -
with one year's exception, the better part of
60 years. I must admit Senator Marchi says
that with a smile on his face. He knows what
that means.
But one-party rule, it seems to me
that if we look back in that mirror that I
would project in the middle of the hall, you
might find more about one-party rule on that
side of the aisle than you would on this.
And the second thing, Mr.
3475
President, is very simple. Senator Alesi said
it was impossible to get that money for the
city school district, impossible. I would
suggest that that has nothing to do with
impossibility. It has to do with will.
Let's be honest with everybody in
this chamber. Those of us who represent
largely people of color and largely urban
areas have not, for the better part of the
last 40 years, gotten our fair share of
educational funding.
One of the things that happens -
in my opinion, I've been so critical of it -
we have what's called a transition cap and we
have hold harmless. Hold harmless says that
in school districts that have wealth and have
strong tax bases, that they get held harmless
under the formula. They get more than they
would otherwise be entitled to under our
formula because we want to shelter those
districts from the consequences of changing
times.
Urban school districts, by
contrast, are affected by what's called the
transition aid cap, which is an artificial
3476
construct that denies them the ability to get
their fair share that they would be entitled
to under the formula. So on one hand, we
restrict the amount of money we can give to
cities and we increase the amount of money we
can give to wealthier suburbs.
I would suggest to Senator Alesi
and everybody in this chamber that it is not
impossible to change that, it's that the
Majority in this house does not want to change
it. They don't want to. They lack the will
to change it. And we all know why you lack
the will to change it.
But let's stop saying it's
impossible. This chamber, I've been told, has
all the power in the State of New York. We've
got tremendous power if we will to use it. In
this case, the reason why the city of
Rochester doesn't get its fair share is
because this house lacks the will to change.
We can do it. We should do it. We just
haven't.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Senator Alesi.
3477
SENATOR ALESI: I just wonder if
Senator Dollinger would mind yielding for a
question.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you,
Senator Dollinger. With all respect, let me
preface my remarks by reminding you of the
very strong statement that I made that you and
I have been friends for a number of years -
SENATOR DOLLINGER: We still are.
SENATOR ALESI: -- through the
legislative process at many levels and will
continue to do that.
I was just wondering if you were -
when you said we all know why, you didn't
actually say why. And perhaps there's
something that I don't know that you think
everybody else knows. So maybe you could
enlighten me as to when you say "we all know
why," you could be more specific.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, I'll be even more specific.
Generally, the voting trends in this state are
3478
that the people that live and reside in cities
have tended to elect Democrats to office.
There are exceptions to that. The New York
City mayoralty, for example. But quite
frankly, the constituents that live in cities
have generally voted Democratic.
The majority of this house has
traditionally been, for the better part of 60
years, Republican. It has to do with whose
political allegiance people have to which
sides of the fence.
I would point out, Senator Alesi,
that you are an exception to that. You do
represent a portion of the city of Rochester.
But the major portion of it has tended to vote
Democratic, which means that, quite frankly -
and I understand it, as a political fact -
that those in a political majority of largely
Republicans would not necessarily be inclined
to help populations that generally tend to
vote Democratic.
That's the point I was going to
make, Mr. President.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr.
President. On the bill.
3479
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, on the bill.
SENATOR ALESI: I'd like to thank
Senator Dollinger for his comments and thank
him for pointing out my diligence in
representing the needs of a very broad,
diverse constituency which does include the
urban core as well, and people that live in
the city of Rochester as well as the rural
areas of my district.
But when Senator Dollinger implies
that the reason that not enough money goes to
the city schools is because Republicans don't
generally represent the urban areas, then I
think that that's a very sadly misleading
statement.
It is not because of the
Republicans that are in the Majority in this
house that the cities don't get their fair
share of education. To say that ignores the
fact that we have a structure of government
that has two houses. Yes, this house is
controlled by the Republican majority. But
the Assembly is controlled by the Democrat
majority, a very large core of which comes
3480
from the city of New York and other large
urban areas.
Because we have a two-house system
here, it would be very misleading, in all
fairness to my good friend Senator Dollinger,
to try to convince anybody that the money that
goes to any area -- whether it's education,
health, transportation or whatever -- is done
by the control of one party.
The other party controls the other
house. This is a negotiated budget. You
can't possibly in earnest say that because the
Republicans are in the majority in this house
that's the reason why urban areas don't get
enough aid for education, any more than we can
make a contrary argument and blame it on the
Democrats in the Assembly. Unless we're
simply looking to make a political point. And
as I said in my earlier comments, that happens
all the time.
The fact of the matter is, when I
was talking about one-party rule, I was
talking about a city government that is a
unicameral government. There is no other
house. There aren't any balances. When I was
3481
talking about the city school district in
Rochester, it's just one board. There isn't
another board. It's one board, it's one city
school district. One-party rule is basically
eroding and destroying the city and the city
school district. That was my point.
But don't -- please, please don't
try -- I'm not speaking directly to Senator
Dollinger. No Senator should stand on this
floor and try to mislead people by thinking
that someone is being shortchanged because
Republicans control the Senate. Because
Democrats control the Assembly. And we know
that everything that eventually goes to the
Governor for his signature is the result of
Democrats and Republicans alike negotiating,
compromising, and then agreeing. And trust
me, nobody is being shortchanged by one single
individual or political party in this State
Legislature.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator
Alesi yield to a question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
3482
Alesi, do you yield for a question from
Senator Dollinger?
SENATOR ALESI: I'd be happy to
yield to a question from my friend and
colleague whom I have enjoyed serving with for
so many years.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: We're good
friends, we have different points of view.
My question is very simple.
Through you, Mr. President. Senator Alesi, if
I told you that the Assembly had voted to
repeal the transition cap and that the only
thing that stood between the signature of the
Governor to repeal the transition cap, or to
get it to the Governor's desk, was a vote of
the Majority in this chamber to bring to the
floor and to approve it, would you still
conclude that the Republican Majority was not
standing in the way of repealing the
transition cap?
SENATOR ALESI: Well, Senator, in
answer to your question, I would say this. If
you listened to my earlier remarks.
I said that this is a negotiated,
compromised, agreed-upon effort, and that
3483
everything that happened to this point is
nothing more than a negotiating tactic that
gets us here. And if you want to be honest,
Senator, anything that occurs along the lines
of what you're just suggesting is a tactic to
get us to this particular point.
And we could spend all day here
giving examples of point and counterpoint.
But the truth of the matter is, Senator, that
if this were not palatable to the
Democrat-controlled Assembly for one reason or
another, this would not be in print, it would
not be agreed upon today, and it would not be
giving you the opportunity to grandstand the
way you have been.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr.
President, will the sponsor yield just to one
more question? Excuse me, will Senator Alesi
yield to just one more question?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, do you yield to another question?
SENATOR ALESI: I would be very
happy to agree to one more question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: He does.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would it be a
3484
reasonable conclusion, just as a matter of
civics, that if one house approved a repeal of
the transition cap and the other house refused
to take it up that you could conclude that the
house that refused to take it up was standing
in the way of it becoming law?
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, if
that's the Senator's question, I would simply
say that you could apply that logic to
anything that we have negotiated in this
particular budget. And you can draw the
conclusion you want, because the intended
purpose is to make a political statement.
My comments here regarding this
issue have simply been to state concretely
that we have done everything that can be
possibly done within the domain of an
agreement between the Democrats who control
the Assembly and the Republicans who control
the Senate.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you.
SENATOR ALESI: And I don't
really need to go through -- we could be here
all day long if we want to give examples of
what they have done over there to dismantle
3485
the process, what we have done over here to
bring negotiations closer to conclusion.
There's no good purpose in doing that.
I think what we ought to do here
is, at least as it relates to the amendment
that was proposed, adding more money to the
Rochester City School District, is to accept
the fact that there's much more that we can
always do. But we also have to understand
that we have to do it within what is agreed
upon between both houses.
And I'm going back to my original
remarks and when I said one-party rule has
nearly dismantled the City of Rochester and
the city school district, I meant that. And
when it was proposed that one-party rule has
caused some difficulties up here, I simply
pointed out that there is no one-party rule
when you have two house of the Legislature
both controlled by different, opposing
political parties.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I
want to ask the Senator to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Hold on
just a second. I've got a list going,
3486
Senator, and you're next on it, if you don't
mind. Senator Volker and then Senator Duane.
SENATOR VOLKER: Very quickly, I
don't represent the city of Buffalo. In fact,
I haven't represented the city of Buffalo
since about twenty some years ago in the
reapportionment of, what, 1980. Believe it or
not, this is my fourth -- although somebody
pointed out it's actually my fifth
reapportionment, because we had one of them
that was stuttering, as we say. It happened a
little later.
Let me just say that when you talk
about transitional aid, Senator, I know we
talk this hocus-pocus about the wonderful
things about the formula. Senator, there's
nothing magical about the formula. We pour
money into the cities. Buffalo, 80 percent of
its funding is state funding. Two years ago
Buffalo got more money than any school
district in the state of New York ever got.
I'm talking about per capita, of course. I
mean, in years past we used to pick it up in
shovelfuls and throw it into the city of
New York and it would dribble out the edges.
3487
The problem with the city school
district is it's terribly managed. You can
put all the money you want into that district.
But that doesn't mean that it's going to
improve until something happens with the
structure of that district.
We're trying to do that in Buffalo.
When I say "we," yes, the Buffalo city is run
by Democrats. And it happens to be people who
I think are trying to get things righted. But
let me tell you, the district that I
represent, where I live, the percentage is
about 32 percent. It's a little embarrassing,
because the City of Buffalo's percentage is
80 percent. Eighty percent. And let's not
forget all the special aid, virtually, goes
into the cities. Plus all sorts of other
stuff.
I mean, the problem here is that we
were kind of talking a little bit in riddles.
And Rochester had a particular problem because
they miscalculated the numbers rather
decidedly. And therefore, they found out they
needed a lot more money than they thought they
did. That happened in Buffalo some years ago,
3488
and Artie Eve and I went to the school board
and the administration and sat down with them
and said, "Look, if you don't clean up your
act, you're not going to get the kind of money
that we've been getting to you over the
years." And frankly I think they did clean up
their act.
And I only mention that -- of
course, this is Buffalo. And I'll admit we're
a little bit different in some ways. Not than
a lot of places. I know John DeFrancisco
works hard with Syracuse. And certainly Dick
Spano works very hard with the Yonkers school
district. Of course, Yonkers has been
through, I think, 2 emergency control boards
and a half, if I'm not mistaken, something of
that nature.
We've never had an emergency
control board in Buffalo. And some people say
that this year we should have one. But we're
not going to do one. Because if we can all
cooperate together, we in Buffalo are going to
make sure that doesn't happen and also make
sure that the school district comes out very
well also.
3489
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. I was wondering if Senator
Dollinger would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, Senator Duane inquires if you would
yield.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
President, I'll be glad to.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you.
Are we in the Assembly now?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, not to my
knowledge. Unless suddenly I've been morphed
into an Assemblyman.
SENATOR DUANE: And do we -
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Do you
wish Senator Dollinger to continue to yield?
SENATOR DUANE: To continue to
yield, yes, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will, Mr.
3490
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger yields.
SENATOR DUANE: And do we as a
body, the Senate body, control what the
Assembly does?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: To my
knowledge, Mr. President, the answer to that
question is no.
SENATOR DUANE: And if the
Senator would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Does the
Senator continue to yield?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: He
yields.
SENATOR DUANE: And is it not
only possible but likely that urban school
districts around the state have been
underfunded during the past several years?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think
that's a fair statement. For the better part
of more than 10 or 15 years, in my judgment.
SENATOR DUANE: And through you,
3491
Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger is not the sponsor.
But does the Senator consent to
yielding for a question?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr.
President, I'll yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger yields.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. I
just need to say how foolish of me to think
that someone on this side would be the sponsor
of such a bill. An amendment, yes. Not a
bill.
But through you, Mr. President, is
it not only possible but likely -- and others'
contention -- that the school aid formulas are
flawed?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think
that's -- at least from my point of view, the
school aid formula remains deeply flawed, in
part because of the transition aid cap and in
part because of the hold harmless provisions
and others. And I think they were properly
3492
pointed out -- the flaws in that formula were
properly pointed out by Judge DeGrasse in the
CFE case.
SENATOR DUANE: And through you,
Mr. President, if the Senator would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
do you continue to yield?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I do,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DUANE: And do we not as
a body, in the Senate, have the power to be a
leader in changing how aid is provided to
school districts throughout the state?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I don't know
whether we specifically have the interest in
doing that, Senator.
But I've stood in this chamber for
ten years and been told that we've been a
leader in childcare, we've been a leader in
domestic violence prohibitions, we've been a
leader in criminal justice, we've been a
leader -- this chamber has been a leader in
3493
any one of a number of issues.
I would assume, Senator Duane, that
if this house decided that it was going to be
a leader in equity in school funding, it could
be that easily.
SENATOR DUANE: And through you,
Mr. President, if the Senator would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, do you yield for another question?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I do,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR DUANE: And do you agree
that a better model on how this Legislature -
in particular, the Senate, I should say -
would function would be if it were based on
the federal model of the U.S. Senate rather
than on the dysfunctional model which has
become permanent in this house?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: My personal
experience, not having been a United States
Senator, but everything I've read suggests
that the kind of bipartisan cooperation, the
3494
bills sponsored by leaders in both parties -
all of those things seem to make the United
States Senate a fitting model for any body,
any political body in this nation, whether it
happens to be this or any other.
SENATOR DUANE: And through you,
Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Dollinger, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: I do, Mr.
President.
SENATOR DUANE: And in terms of
funding for education and so many other
matters, is it not better for the public if we
rise above petty partisan issues and using
that to attack each other but, instead, to
keep in mind that we are all here in the upper
house of the Legislature to help the people
and in particular, at this moment, as it
applies to education funding?
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, in
response that to that, Mr. President, it seems
to me that whenever anybody on this side of
the aisle stands up and advocates for their
3495
community, they're accused of political
gamesmanship or grandstanding or any one of
those other phrases, yet when members on the
other side of the aisle stand up and advocate
for their communities -- first of all, I'm not
sure I've heard anybody on this side of the
aisle accuse them of such conduct. And,
secondly, it seems to me that they're
generally saluted as being effective advocates
for their community.
Why there's a double standard with
respect to that, Senator Duane, I don't know.
But I would think that that kind of silliness
doesn't belong in this chamber. I assume that
everybody's here -- someone mentioned that
this is a political act. I think Senator
Alesi is correct. Everything that happens in
this house has a political tone to it.
Because, of course, we're all politicians.
We're all men of the people, women of the
people. And it seems to me that because
that's who we are, everything we do has
something to do with politics, with the people
we represent.
I personally find it discouraging,
3496
disheartening, and inconsistent with the
history of this chamber that people would
stand up and say someone advocating for
something for their district or for children
in their district, more money for lead-paint
abatement or more money for the Division of
Human Rights, is accused of playing politics.
I think that's what good and effective
advocacy is all about.
And I'm amazed that Senator Alesi
says: "Well, you know, this is a carefully
crafted compromise." What in essence he's
saying is: We've built the box. Here's the
box. Don't think outside the box. It's our
box. You can't think outside the box.
I would suggest that as someone
elected by people, I was not elected to let
anyone put me into the box. I was elected to
think outside the box and, if necessary,
advocate outside the box. Because the box is
poorly constructed, from my point of view.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
3497
The debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1200 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and L. Krueger.
Ayes, 56. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will continue to read
in regular order.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1201, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9753C and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6253C,
Third Reading Calendar 1201.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3498
1201, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9753C, an act making appropriations for
the support of government, Transportation and
Economic Development Budget.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a
message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes,
there is a message at the desk.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
3499
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'd like an
explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger, we're on a roll call. Are you asking
me to withdraw the roll call?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Request
permission to withdraw the roll call.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The roll
call is withdrawn.
Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President,
the budget is being discussed in detail. We
seem to be jumping around a bit. But I would
just second what's been said here a number of
times today concerning this budget, which has
been hammered out on the anvil of discussion,
the anvil of sensitivity and, yes, the anvil
of practicality.
Now, this specific bill, the
transportation and economic development bill,
3500
provides the necessary appropriation authority
to support the agencies involved in
maintaining and improving the state's
transportation infrastructure as well as the
state's economy.
I would also hasten to add and
emphasize that this bill also provides for a
program which we very proudly here in the
Senate call GE*NY*SIS, focusing and
encouraging collaboration between basic
research and life sciences at our various
university centers and also in the technology
field.
I don't think any of us will argue
that transportation is important. We can't
have a viable state without it and we can't
have a state that is competitive without it.
Also, economic development in
itself I note has become an industry. We all
know that in our various areas we are working
very hard toward economic development in the
state. And other states are doing it, other
countries are doing it. And if we don't have
adequate economic development, we are going to
be left behind.
3501
Fortunately, this budget will make
sure, in my opinion, that we will not be left
behind.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield for
a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator Stafford.
I appreciate the explanation. You
mentioned -
SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize.
I admit that I should wear a hearing aid. My
children tell me I should.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I will
speak up. You know, I have all these budget
bills right next to my microphone.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Maybe someday
I'll get around to do that.
So if you could speak into the
mike, please.
3502
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
my budget bills were on top of my microphone.
Can you hear me now, Senator? I'll
try again.
You mentioned before you thought
this was a good budget. Senator Marchi
mentioned that he had voted for 46 years for
every single budget. I am new. It is hard
for me to imagine now -- well, of course,
being anywhere for 46 years -- but to being
able to vote for every single budget.
SENATOR STAFFORD: I wouldn't
wish that on anyone.
(Laughter.)
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: This bill
has so many details in it that I have a series
of questions for you. I will try to
categorize them largely first.
And I'm following up on Senator
Maziarz's comments before, which I heard and
respect, that he couldn't imagine voting for
anything taking $500,000 of state money out of
a budget without knowing where it's going.
And in this section of the budget
on economic development we are in fact taking
3503
$1.2 billion of state money and putting it
into a series of programs, mostly through the
Urban Development Corporation, where it's not
clear to me where they're going. And I
therefore feel I need some answers to be able
to represent and vote on behalf of my
constituents. You already mentioned some.
In the Urban Development
Corporation subsection we have $520 million
going to two programs, the Empire Opportunity
Fund and the Centers for Excellence. Could
you clarify to me what each of those are and
what monies will go to them and who will
decide how those monies are spent?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator,
you've been here a short time but you've
learned to ask very good questions.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
SENATOR STAFFORD: I will attempt
to respond seriously.
The Centers for Excellence -- as
always, I'm getting very, very good counsel,
just to make sure what I already knew was
true. Don't believe that.
The Centers for Excellence are -
3504
that's a Governor's program. I believe there
are centers in Buffalo, there are centers in
Rochester, Albany, Long Island, New York City.
And it is a program that is enhancing these
various centers at universities.
And for instance, I would explain
this program to you that I'm very impressed
with -- and anyone who wants to correct me
here, correct me. But IBM is putting
$100 million into one of these centers right
here in Albany, in conjunction with the State
University. And they will be working and
doing research on something I don't
understand.
But believe you me, it's in the
future. And if we don't do this, if we don't
do this, we are going to be behind.
Now, what was the second -
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: The Empire
Opportunity Fund, sir, was the other category
in that $520 million -- excuse me, Mr.
President, I spoke out of turn.
SENATOR STAFFORD: That program
is also a Governor's program. And throughout
the state, the Executive branch is funding
3505
economic opportunity programs. I know they've
done it throughout the state. Not in just one
area. In New York City, in Long Island -- did
I mention Long Island for Centers of
Excellence? That's also included. And by all
means, Senator Velella's area. All the areas.
And at one time -- I will share
this with you. At one time, and I started to
say when I was in my first term and knew
everything. But I didn't say that. But now
that I'm in my 19th term, I've learned that
economic development is very important.
Whether it is done -- whether it is done by
Governor Rockefeller, Governor Wilson,
Governor Carey, Governor -- what's his
name? -- Governor Cuomo, or Governor Pataki.
And I would emphasize that.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
If the sponsor would yield to an additional
question, Mr. President.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
3506
Just to clarify, it's my
understanding that the Empire Opportunity Fund
is new money, so these wouldn't be programs
that already exist. You implied that these
were programs that existed throughout the
state. Am I wrong? Are these not new dollars
for new projects?
SENATOR STAFFORD: You're exactly
right. It's brand-new, spanking new.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. If the sponsor would continue
to yield for an additional question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you yield?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator
Stafford, I agree economic development money
is critical money. Especially in hard
economic times, we need to do everything we
can to be investing our money correctly to
ensure that we're maximizing the possibilities
for job growth and economic development and
new revenue into the state.
3507
What are the criteria that are
going to be used for distributing this -- some
share of this $520 million? I worry that one
simply can't state economic development is
good, but rather one has to evaluate different
proposals. Some is good and some is has
failed to bring us returns to the state.
What kind of model are we going to
put in place to assure we're using this money
wisely?
SENATOR STAFFORD: I think we
have to do our best, Mr. President, not to
have vagaries and vicissitudes in how we set
up programs. But I would share with you that
if you really think about it, here in state
government there are checks and balances. We
also have the people.
I would suggest to you that these
programs are very good, that they will be
administered in such a way that is
advantageous to our people. And we do and I
certainly do, without any mental reservation
whatsoever, have faith in the Governor's
office, the Governor and his people to do this
in a way that will be fair, equitable, and
3508
responsive.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator. If the sponsor -- excuse me, Mr.
President, if the sponsor would continue to
yield to an additional question.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you yield?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator Stafford. So now we've gone over the
$520 million for Empire Opportunity Fund new
monies and for Centers for Excellence.
There's also $680 million being put into this
budget for a number of other programs that yet
again I'm afraid I know very little about.
And again, I worry that in a time of hard
economic choices and not enough money, how do
we prioritize using our money in these ways
rather than investing more in our schools?
Could you just give me an
explanation for -- and I'll just read them off
in the order I found them in the budget -- the
GE*NY*SIS program, the multimodal
3509
transportation projects, a new project called
RESTORE, and a new project called the
Community Capital Assistance Program? I
believe those all add up to $680 million of
new state money.
SENATOR STAFFORD: I mentioned
the GE*NY*SIS program to you. And again, I'm
very proud to go over it again. And I think
it's something that the Senate should be very
proud of.
And it does focus on encouraging
collaboration between basic research in the
life sciences at the various universities here
in our state, and with technology transfer
activities and private industry to improve
people's lives and increase the number of
businesses and jobs in New York State.
That's a rather formal explanation.
But I wanted to say that because, again, I
would just point to -- and it's just so
impressive to see IBM come to Albany and put
$100 million into a program here at the State
University.
Why don't we go down one at a time,
and we'll get these answered.
3510
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: All right.
Thank you, Senator. Mr. President, if I may.
Again, just to clarify, I believe
you now gave me the explanation both for the
Centers for Excellence and the GE*NY*SIS as if
they're the same program. But my reading of
the budget is that they are two separate
programs.
SENATOR STAFFORD: They are not
the same program. That's exactly right.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So I still
need a clarification, since you said -- you
just explained -- what you said was GE*NY*SIS.
So I think I need to ask you to go back to the
Centers for Excellence.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yeah, that's
the Governor's program.
I would say The Centers for
Excellence, the Governor's program, are going
to emphasize more collaboration with the
private sector.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Just to
continue, then. Going down the list, Mr.
President, if I may.
The RESTORE program, which is a new
3511
program in the budget -- I'll try to find the
full name for you. Rebuilding the Empire
State through Opportunities in Regional
Economies.
SENATOR STAFFORD: The RESTORE
program -- and I know I don't have to go
through a course in civics here. But we have
a body in this Capitol called the Assembly,
and the Assembly has a bit to say here.
And they have the RESTORE program,
which is a collection of everything that we're
talking about. And they of course will have
programs along the lines that we've just been
talking about.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And so
you're -- excuse me, Mr. President, if I may.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
So it's your understanding, Senator
Stafford, that that's an Assembly-proposed
program, so that we don't have, particularly,
3512
details here in the Senate about what the
program is?
SENATOR STAFFORD: We don't what?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Because
it's an Assembly-proposed program, we don't
have any details about what that is?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I don't
want to say that. I think that we have a very
good idea. I think that the Assembly is
responsible. I think that -- let me see now.
You're from Manhattan.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR STAFFORD: I would
suggest that you'd find the RESTORE program
very responsive to Manhattan. And I'm sure
that you'll look forward to getting into some
of the details.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: If I may,
Mr. President, continue to ask the sponsor to
yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senator yields.
3513
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Since I'm
not in the Assembly, Senator, I'm in the
Senate, I feel that I need to make my decision
today in voting for these bills based on the
information I have available.
But to continue, we also have the
Community Capital Assistance Program. That
was the last program I mentioned to you before
under the $680 million category in the budget.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Just what you
just mentioned, too, as you know, as you'll
find -- and I think people say I don't have
much of a reputation for going back and forth
and I don't have much of an interest in
whatever.
But I would suggest to you that
you'll find it very interesting how, when we
do get a job done like this budget, how
important cooperation is. And if we don't
cooperate with the Assembly, we don't get a
budget. And you have to rely on the Assembly
a great deal.
So what I would suggest is -- do
you have any Assemblymen in your district?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Of course I
3514
do, Senator.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I'd -
I'd talk to them too. I think you'll find it
interesting.
What's the last thing we mentioned
now?
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: The
Community Capital Assistance Program.
SENATOR STAFFORD: By the way,
"Assemblypersons," my counsel just explained
to me. And I apologize.
This is a redevelopment project
in -- throughout the state, smaller projects.
And it's both the executive branch and the
legislative branch of the government, both
really sponsor the program.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.
President, if I may continue to ask the
sponsor to yield to just another question or
two.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Stafford, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
3515
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
very much, Senator Stafford.
We are paying for this, according
to the budget, through a variety of funding
streams. Do you think that we should make
sure we have the money in the budget before we
expend the money in the budget for specific
items?
SENATOR STAFFORD: You know, it's
interesting. You know, when I was growing
up -- and there's some who argue whether
that's ever happened or not, as far as I'm
concerned -- I was told, you know, you pay for
everything. You don't borrow anything. You
don't borrow any money.
Well, I've learned that that isn't
exactly the case. In fact, I think borrowing
money is quite an industry in this state.
Bonding, I think if there wasn't bonding, I
think there would be many, many less jobs in
many centers, including the greatest city in
the world over 1 million in population. I
can't leave Plattsburgh.
And I would say that making a
budget is not an exact science. It just
3516
isn't. You can talk to one person and they'll
say this. Talk to another person; this is how
much we're going to have. I've always said an
economist is the greatest job in the world
because you can say anything. And as long as
you're 50 miles from home, you're an expert.
And very often the one who says the most
ridiculous thing is the one that's how it
turns out.
But my point is you don't know.
You just don't know what the revenues are
going to be. And anybody tells you they know,
well, after 37 years, I suggest you don't.
You do as best you can. And you rely on
various revenues.
I would suggest you're not sure of
any revenues for next year as far as that's
concerned. And consequently, I think we are
implementing programs -- I have one of these
facilities right in my own district now at the
Akwesasne reserve, and we will have to see.
We don't know how much people are going to
spend, we don't know how much they're going to
earn. We just have to, as best we can, put it
together and say we're going to establish this
3517
program and we're going to assess or suggest
or estimate what we're going to receive.
Now, overall, I've found this also.
It's much simpler than it sounds. Because you
estimate what you're going to get, and you say
here is what we're going to spend. And that's
why you have these various figures. And as
Senator Marchi said earlier, people are
sincere.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator. Thank you very much.
If I might speak on the bill, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Liz Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator, for trying to explain to me so many
of the questions I have.
I find myself still frustrated with
the fact that as a legislator, I don't believe
I could vote for the State of New York to take
$1.2 billion of taxpayers' money and invest it
in a series of different, quote, economic
development initiatives without having far
more details available about what the risks
3518
are, what the advantages of each model might
be, whether in fact we ought to prioritize
differently, whether in a year of tough budget
choices we should be taking $1.2 billion of
state money to invest in these specific models
of economic development.
I'm also concerned about the fact
that -- I guess perhaps I represent a destruct
of bankers. I think probably statistically
there are more bankers in my district on the
East Side of the Manhattan than perhaps in all
other State Senate districts put together,
just given the realities of New York City and
where population lives. I would find it very,
very difficult to go back and explain to
people who are very sophisticated in economic
development and venture capital and analysis
of how you choose to make investments, and
whether the State of New York would be better
often investing in the stock market versus any
subproject within any of these different
programs within this $1.2 billion that we plan
to put through the Urban Development
Corporation -- which again then takes it
off-budget and gives us no future ability to
3519
evaluate or have input into how those monies
would be used even if we were to pass them
into the budget today.
And so I feel that I could not
possibly in good faith vote for this and be
able to go home and explain to my district
that I used my authority as their legislator
to invest $1.2 billion with almost no detail
about how that money would be used.
I also must go home to my district
and explain to a universe of both bankers and
people who evaluate investment trends that the
State of New York would again, in a bad
economic year, choose to fund these programs
with $600 million that we claim we have now,
according to the budget, and another
$620 million that we expect to have from two
Indian casinos that have yet to be built but
we're anticipating revenue from in this year.
And I simply would argue, I think,
unless the other Senators in this room know
far more than I do -- and perhaps I should
have addressed my questions to other
legislators in addition to Senator Stafford -
I don't know how any of us in good faith could
3520
vote for this specific section of the budget
bill, because we couldn't possibly have the
right answers to go home to our constituents
with to justify the decision no, not to put
$1.2 billion into economic development. I
think there are all kinds of good arguments
that could be made, even in a bad economic
year, to invest wisely in economic development
to create jobs, to generate new revenue, to
bring new businesses into New York State.
But we have far more questions here
than we possibly have answers for. And so I
will have to vote no on this. I would love to
get answers perhaps after today, because I
believe that this budget will go through
regardless of the fact that I'm voting against
it. And I think that this should be the
beginning of a discussion, not the end of a
discussion, about how New York State is using
our taxpayer dollars to invest in, quote,
unquote, economic development programs.
And I say another concern I have
but I did not raise it in my questions is when
we go into what appear to be joint ventures
with private businesses in New York State -
3521
Senator Stafford used as one example IBM. I
don't know, again, whether it was a joint
venture through the GE*NY*SIS program or the
Centers for Excellence program, because I'm
still a little confused about what's the
difference between the two -- should the
people of New York not get an expectation of a
return on those investments with private
companies if in fact those are successful
ventures?
So I'm particularly concerned when
New York State goes into economic development
in high-tech or joint ventures with private
businesses that we as legislators can assure
our voters that we took their tax dollars, we
made the wisest investment possible from an
economic development perspective. And if in
fact those were successful ventures, because
there's risk involved in economic
development -- as you pointed out yourself,
that there's risk involved in the leaps we
take in passing a budget and having trusted
that the Governor made the right decision -
there needs to be a return on risk.
So we are putting our money into
3522
ventures with private enterprises, and there
will be returns, perhaps large returns, to
those private businesses, particularly when
you're talking about issues of patents, that
the people of New York need to get their
fair-share return on those investments as if
we were a joint venture with any company.
If two companies had a joint
venture, they would ensure that for the risk,
there was a return. And I would argue if the
State of New York is in the business of doing
venture capital work using economic
development dollars to help generate new and
high-tech industries, that we need to ensure
that we protect the voters of New York and
their tax dollars by getting the same kind of
deal for them that they would get if they had
taken that money and invested it privately.
So I know this all seems very
complex. And my questions I appreciate were
frustrating perhaps to go through. But again,
I cannot vote for this, because I cannot in
good conscience explain to the people in my
district or in my state -- and I'm not sure
anyone else in this chamber could -- what
3523
we're using this $1.2 billion for. Is it the
best use of that money? Is it the best
investment possible under economic development
funding streams and we'll be able to explain
to them later and justify our actions? Since
if it goes through the Urban Development
Corporation as it's intended, we will never
have any legislative oversight or authority
over any of the process or decisions that get
made afterwards.
Thank you very much, Mr. President,
for allowing me to speak.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1201 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and L. Krueger.
Ayes, 57. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
3524
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1202, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9754C and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6254C,
Third Reading Calendar 1202.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1202, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9754C, an act making appropriations for
the support of government, Health, Mental
Hygiene and Environmental Conservation Budget.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes,
there is.
SENATOR BALBONI: I would ask
that the message be read and move to accept
the message.
3525
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
those in favor of accepting the message of
necessity signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
message is accepted.
The bill is before the house.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1202 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and L. Krueger.
Ayes, 57. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1204, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
3526
Assembly Bill Number 9759B and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6257B,
Third Reading Calendar 1204.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Substitution ordered.
The Secretary will read.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Could we please
lay this aside temporarily. And I'd like to
announce an immediate meeting of the Majority
in the Majority Conference Room. Immediate
meeting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
will be laid aside temporarily.
There will be an immediate meeting
conference of the Majority.
Senator Mendez.
SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President,
an immediate conference of the Minority,
Room 314.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
Immediate conference of the Minority in their
conference room.
3527
ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
Senator Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr.
President. We'd like to call an immediate
Finance Committee meeting, immediate Finance
Committee meeting in the Majority Conference
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
Immediate Finance Committee meeting has been
called in the Majority Conference Room,
Room 332.
SENATOR KUHL: And do you have
some housekeeping?
ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
Are there any housekeeping items?
SENATOR KUHL: We'll return to
the order of motions and the resolutions.
ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, on
page 56 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar Number 1033, Senate Print 7319, and
ask that said bill by Senator Padavan retain
its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
3528
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Mr.
President. Could we please return to reports
of standing committees. I believe that there
is a report from the Finance Committee at the
desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following bill direct to third reading:
Senate Print 6258B, Senate Budget
Bill, an act to amend the Education Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Without objection, directly to third reading.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
could we please take up Calendar Number 1204.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
3529
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1204, substituted earlier today, Assembly
Budget Bill, Assembly Print Number 9759B, an
act to amend the Environmental Conservation
Law.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Is there a
message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: We
already accepted that message, Senator.
SENATOR BALBONI: I believe we
did not.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Okay. If we
didn't, we're going to accept it now.
SENATOR BALBONI: Great. Could
you please have the message read and move to
accept it.
ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: All
in favor say aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
3530
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
message is accepted.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
bill is passed.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Mr.
President. Could we please consider Bill
1205, Calendar 1205.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1205, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9761B and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6259B,
Third Reading Calendar 1205.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
substitution is ordered.
3531
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1205, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9761B, an act to amend Section 9 of
Chapter 533 of the Laws of 1993.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: There
is.
SENATOR BALBONI: Can we please
have the message read and move for its
adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All in
favor of accepting the message of necessity
say aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
message is accepted, Senator.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
3532
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
2. Senators Dollinger and L. Krueger recorded
in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
bill is passed.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
could we please call up Calendar 1206.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1206, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9758B and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6256B,
Third Reading Calendar 1206.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
substitution is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1206, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
3533
Number 9758B, an act to amend the Education
Law and the Executive Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: There
is.
SENATOR BALBONI: I move for its
acceptance.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All in
favor of accepting the message say aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
message is accepted.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3534
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays,
1. Senator L. Krueger recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
bill is passed.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
could we please call up Calendar Number 1207.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1207, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9762B and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6260B,
Third Reading Calendar 1207.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
substitution is ordered.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: There
is, Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: I move for its
acceptance.
3535
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All in
favor of accepting the message say aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Opposed, nay.
(Response of "Nay.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
message is accepted.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1207 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, L. Krueger, and
Padavan. Ayes, 56. Nays, 4.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
bill is passed.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President. I'd like unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
3536
1203.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: It
hasn't been passed yet, Senator.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Will you please
recognize Senator Dollinger.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse
me, Senator Balboni.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Calendar Number
1206, I'm sorry. Mr. President, I misspoke.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Without objection, Senator Duane will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1206.
Senator Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. I'd ask unanimous consent to
be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1204.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Without objection, Senator Dollinger will be
3537
recorded in the negative on Calendar 1204.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: You're
quite welcome.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: May I also have
unanimous consent to be voted in the negative
on Calendar Number 1204.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Okay.
Without objection, Senator Duane will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar 1204.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
could we please take up Calendar Number 1209.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1209, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9760B and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6258B,
Third Reading Calendar 1209.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
substitution is ordered.
3538
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1209, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9760B, an act to amend the Education
Law.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
is there a message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes,
there is, Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: I move for its
acceptance.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
motion is to accept the message. All in favor
say aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
message is accepted.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
3539
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays,
2. Senators Duane and L. Krueger recorded in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
bill is passed.
Senator Duane.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
please recognize Senator Duane.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1205.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Without objection, Senator Duane will be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
1205.
Senator Hassell-Thompson.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you, Mr. President. I'd like unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar Number 900.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
3540
Without objection, Senator Hassell-Thompson
will be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 900.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Could we please
take up Calendar 1203.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 1203, Senator Stafford moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 9755C and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 6255C,
Third Reading Calendar 1203.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
substitution is ordered.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1203, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
Number 9755C, an act making appropriations for
the support of government, Education, Labor
3541
and Family Assistance Budget.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes,
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Is there a
message of necessity at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes,
there is.
SENATOR BALBONI: I move for its
acceptance.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All in
favor of accepting the message say aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
message is accepted.
The Secretary will read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
3542
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 1203 are
Senators Dollinger, Duane, and L. Krueger.
Ayes, 57. Nays, 3.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
bill is passed.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes,
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes.
Senator Marcellino.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
Mr. President.
On behalf of Senator Johnson, on
page number 65 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 1132, Senate
Print Number 4511B, and ask that said bill
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
3543
Reading Calendar.
Senator Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr.
President.
On behalf of Senator Oppenheimer,
on page number 65 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 1135, Senate
Print Number 4826, and ask that the said bill
retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
since that completes the work on the budget,
and there being no further business, I move we
adjourn until Monday, May 20th, at 3:00 p.m.,
the intervening days being legislative days.
ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Monday, May 20th -- intervening days being
legislative days -- at 3:00 o'clock in the
afternoon.
3544
(Whereupon, at 5:00 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)