Regular Session - May 20, 2002
3554
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
May 20, 2002
3:17 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will come to order.
May I ask everyone present to
please rise and join me in the Pledge of
Allegiance to the Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: In the
absence of clergy, may we now bow our heads in
a moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Sunday, May 19, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, May 18,
was read and approved. On motion, Senate
adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
3556
THE PRESIDENT: Messages from the
Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
President.
On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on
page 27 I offer following amendments to
Calendar Number 587, Senate Print 6774A, and I
ask that that bill retain its place on the
Third Reading Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Maziarz, Madam President, on page 30 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
665, Senate Print 6877, and I ask that that
bill retain its place on the Third Reading
Calendar.
3557
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Stachowski.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam
President, I wish to call up my bill, Print
2558A, recalled from the Assembly, which is
now at the desk.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1011, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print
2558A, an act to amend the General Municipal
Law.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam
President, I now move to reconsider the vote
by which this bill was passed.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will call the roll upon reconsideration.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam
President, I now offer the following
amendments.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
3558
are received, Senator.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there's a privileged resolution at the desk by
Senator DeFrancisco. Could we have the title
read and move for its immediate adoption.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution Number
5614, honoring the students of Willow Field
Elementary School for their participation in
the 49th Senate District "Good News! Good
Kids!" Youth Responsibility Program.
"RESOLVED, That this Legislative
Body pause in its deliberations to express
congratulations to this industrious group of
students: Alicia Leitgeb, Tyler Bender,
Lauren O'Leary, Jimmy Polak, Caitlin Genalo,
Tyler Kamide, Paige Dodge, Ryan Mackie, Aaron
Barrett, Matt Bartholomae, Danielle Gaudette,
Taylor Vogt, Tanner Kreuzer, Melanie Sarko,
David Carpenter, Allie Levick, Victor
Beaumont, Charity Aubrey, Kim Weaver, Ginger
Anderson, Jason MacLeod, Caitlin Spencer,
3559
Alyssa Copp, and Gina Lazara. They have
demonstrated outstanding leadership and good
citizenship; and be it further
"RESOLVED, That this Legislative
Body pause further to welcome the Student
Council from Willow Field Elementary School of
the Liverpool School District to the Senate
chamber, with praise and pride in recognition
of their selection as the winner of the
elementary school level 'Good News! Good
Kids!' Award; and be it further
"RESOLVED, That a copy of this
resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
to Sandra Lamirand and Karen Beale, on behalf
of the students of the Willow Field Student
Council."
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, Madam
President. I rise to congratulate the group
of fourth-, fifth- and sixth graders of the
student council of Willow Field Elementary
School in the Liverpool School District.
I got to meet these young people
earlier today and was proud to bring them here
3560
for the purpose of honoring them for being
selected as the elementary school "Good News!
Good Kids!" recipients.
You know, we see all the time today
these terrible things that young people are
doing. Unfortunately, they get more
publicized than the good things. And these
young people -- fourth-, fifth-, and
sixth-graders -- are a real example to us.
They have done such projects as
raising money for the Red Cross after 9/11.
They've raised money for the Salvation Army
and provided food, cans of food, Toys for Tots
campaign. They brought candles to have the
appropriate memorial service after 9/11.
They've done so many things I
didn't even ask the clerk to read all of them,
because they're so fantastic. They're a group
of young people doing good things in our
community.
And thank you very much for being
good kids. You're going to be the leaders of
tomorrow. And we thank you for coming, and
all the best of luck in the future.
THE PRESIDENT: The question is
3561
on the resolution. All in favor please
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
28, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3676A, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to the definition and use.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
September.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
3562
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
183, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2890A, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to abstraction.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
315, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3210B, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to providing.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3563
620, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6091A,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to authorizing.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4 -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside,
please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
673, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7067, an
act to amend the General Business Law, in
relation to the use of global positioning.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
676, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 6553A,
3564
an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and
the Administrative Code of the City of
New York.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 53. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
678, by Senator Larkin -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
705, by -
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3565
830, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6733A,
an act in relation to transferring the service
award program.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
888, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3703A,
an act to amend the Executive Law, the
Criminal Procedure Law, the Family Court Act,
and the Social Services Law.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Lay that
aside, please.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
902, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1236A, an
act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law, in relation to the additional
3566
pension benefits.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1016, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 6502B,
an act to amend Chapter 398 of the Laws of
2000 relating to creating.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1038, by Member of the Assembly Gromack,
3567
Assembly Print Number 614A, an act to amend
the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to
increasing the penalties.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect in 90 days.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1088, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6493,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to the composition.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
3568
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1091, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 6557,
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to the powers of the State of
New York Mortgage Agency.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1111, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6777A, an
act to authorize the Commissioner of General
Services to sell and convey certain state
land.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect -
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
3569
aside.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Please go to the
controversial calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
315, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3210B, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to providing a real property tax
exemption.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
January.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. Nays,
1. Senator Hevesi recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
620, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6091A,
3570
an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to authorizing the Dormitory
Authority.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
888, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3703A,
an act to amend the Executive Law and others,
in relation to access to records.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio.
Just one moment, please, Senator.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. If we
3571
could lay aside that bill temporarily and go
to Calendar Number 1016.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is laid aside temporarily.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1016, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 6502B,
an act to amend Chapter 398 of the Laws of
2000.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1111, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6777A, an
act to authorize the Commissioner of General
Services.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
3572
Kuhl, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Madam
President.
This bill authorizes the conveyance
of a parcel of land in the Town of Ashland by
the Office of General Services -- it's
currently maintained and handled by the
Department of Transportation -- to the Town of
Ashland, for historic purposes.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, I have exactly two questions for
Senator Kuhl.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Kuhl, will you suffer two questions from
Senator Paterson?
SENATOR KUHL: I'll take the
first one and we'll go from there. How's
that?
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, I'm interested if Senator Kuhl
would explain to the body what the
consideration will be for the conveyance.
SENATOR KUHL: Well, the
3573
consideration, Senator, is the savings that
the Department of Transportation is going to
have as a result of not demolishing this
building. It's currently on their plans to
demolish this building and actually level it,
which would be a considerable expense to them.
The town has indicated they'll take
it for the sum of -- as you know, lawyers use
a dollar. And in fact, it will save them that
demolition money. They will then go and
commence the restoration of the property.
And it is an old trolley building.
There was a trolley service at one time
provided in this area of Chemung County. And
they're going to make a historical museum out
of it.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson, second question?
Senator Kuhl, second question.
SENATOR PATERSON: Is there a
home-rule message required to do this,
Senator?
SENATOR KUHL: I don't think that
3574
there was any requirement from our counsel for
a home-rule message, Senator.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Madam President.
I will assume -- on the bill -
that the consideration is market value, that
it's a fair deal for the state. I sure would
have liked to have asked Senator Kuhl that.
But, you know, my time and my allotment is
elapsed.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Paterson.
Any other Senator wishing to speak
on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
3575
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:
Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Madam
President. Could you please call up Calendar
Number 888.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
888, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3703A,
an act to amend the Executive Law and others,
in relation to access to records.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, who requested the explanation?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
3576
Madam President.
This measure was introduced at the
request of the Crime Victims Board,
authorizing the board access to sealed records
when it's important, essential for them, to
enable the Crime Victims Board to investigate
claims for victim compensation.
There are just some instances where
sealed records must be accessed in order to
determine whether or not the applicant to the
Crime Victims Board does in fact qualify for
assistance.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Nozzolio.
Any other Senator wish to speak on
the bill?
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank
you, Madam President. Would Senator Nozzolio
yield for a question or two?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, Senator Krueger has asked for some
of your time -- Senator Montgomery, I'm
terribly sorry.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, I would
3577
be glad to yield to Ms. Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
Senator.
Senator, your legislation would now
open Family Court records, records of youthful
offenders, delinquency, and also, in addition,
noncriminal cases. Is that correct?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That's
correct, Madam President.
The Victims Board currently lacks
jurisdiction and express authority to obtain
records that are sealed -- child abuse
records, Family Court records. That in order
to understand whether or not a victim of child
abuse exists, there needs to be some
certification, some type of ability to follow
up.
And that's what this is.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
President, if I may ask continue to ask -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, will you continue to yield to
Senator Montgomery?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Madam
President.
3578
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
Senator Nozzolio, I'm just trying
to figure out what would the Crime Victims
Board need information on from sealed records
of juveniles in Family Court?
What exactly are they looking to
use that information for, if it's obviously a
child that is not an adult, has not been tried
as an adult, has been tried in Family Court
and possibly has been found not guilty,
innocent?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, I know Senator Montgomery is
extremely sincere on this matter. However, I
wish her focus were more in terms of the
victim.
Don't knee-jerk in terms of the
perpetrator of the crime. The victim is part
of those records, Senator. That in order to
ascertain whether an individual is so
victimized, you need access to those records.
That that's what we're trying to do
here, ascertain whether or not a victim was so
3579
victimized. And often the only source for
information is in fact the court record, which
is sealed.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
President, if Senator Nozzolio would continue
to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator,
will you continue to yield?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator, I'm
just trying to ascertain what is the
importance of having that information on
juveniles, whose records have obviously been
sealed, or a person who is essentially has
been found to be innocent and whose records
are sealed, who would be the advantage for the
Crime Victims Board except to see that the
person is innocent or that the person was
indeed a juvenile?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, let me try to answer Senator
Montgomery's question this way.
3580
That regardless of who the
perpetrator of the particular crime is, when
an applicant goes before the Crime Victims
Board, they are in fact a victim and are
asking for relief from the Crime Victims
Board.
The Crime Victims Board is
empowered and has the responsibility of
checking out the veracity of that application.
When an individual goes before the Crime
Victims Board and happens to have been
victimized by a juvenile whose records are
sealed, the Crime Victims Board is handcuffed
and is often unable to check the veracity of
the claim of the crime victim.
It matters not whether the records
are sealed. It matters -- for the
perpetrator, the perpetrator has that
protection. And that protection is not going
to be disseminated in any other way except for
to test the veracity of the claim of the crime
victim before the Crime Victims Board.
If a victim is a victim of child
abuse and seeks redress, either directly or,
in all likelihood, a guardian would make the
3581
application on behalf of the child abuse
victim, it's up to the Crime Victims Board to
test whether that applicant was in fact
victimized.
Where can the Crime Victims Board
go to determine that? They must go to the
court where the child abuse was litigated and
determined.
It matters not whether the records
are sealed. The victim still was victimized.
In order for them to get some modicum of
redress, the Crime Victims Board needs to
verify that victimization. And this
legislation simply enables the Crime Victims
Board to do just that.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Just one
last question -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: One last
question, Senator Nozzolio.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- if the
Senator will continue to yield.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Madam
President.
3582
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator, I
hear your explanation, but I'm still -- I'm
not able to understand specifically that if a
person comes to the Crime Victims Board and
states that they were victimized by a child,
I'm not able to figure what is it that the
Crime Victims Board -- why is it that they
need to have that child's record unsealed in
order to address the issue of a so-called
victim?
And if in fact the person was
victimized, so to speak, is it the case now
that they -- the Crime Victims Board does not
help them? Are we now not assisting people
who claim that they have been somehow sexually
abused by a child?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, I certainly apologize for my abject
failure to properly explain this to Senator
Montgomery. But let me try it one more time.
That the essence of the application
before the Crime Victims Board is to receive
relief to an individual who has been
victimized. If the Crime Victims Board can't
3583
verify that an individual is victimized,
they're not going to pay the crime victim.
So the bottom line is the victim
needs compensation regardless of who
victimized them. Unfortunately, in some cases
it's impossible to verify. The Crime Victims
Board has an enormous if not impossible task
to verify this victimization, because court
records and certain other board records are
sealed.
This is an effort to ensure, in
those limited cases, that the court records
are opened up so that the applicants who are
the victims of these crimes can be in fact
compensated.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam
President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery, on the bill.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. I
certainly understand Senator Nozzolio's
attempt to address the interests and concerns
of crime victims.
3584
But I think that the rationale for
closing, for sealing records -- and of course
we all know that that's a hit-and-miss process
to begin with. But nonetheless, the reason
that we seek to seal records, especially of
young people, juveniles, is that we want to
give them a second chance.
And if we keep going in this
direction, we now have -- based on Senator
Nozzolio's bill, we open these records up no
matter the age of the child or the young
person, no matter if the person is innocent or
not, no matter if it's a noncriminal offense,
whatever the case. It is now, based on this
legislation, going to be possible for a young
person's records to be opened to be
investigated by yet one more agency.
So there's very little reason to
even seal records if we're going to have them
opened at every turn of events for whatever
agency is seeking to open them up again.
So I think that we need to find
other ways of having the Crime Victims Board
respond to victims. I certainly think that's
something that we all want that board to be
3585
able to do. But not at the expense of
undermining one of the linchpins of our
criminal justice system, and that is to have
young people's records sealed, especially in
certain cases, so that they can go on with
their lives.
Thank you. I'll be voting no on
this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Montgomery.
Any other Senator wishing to speak
on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 888 are
Senators Andrews, Brown, Hassell-Thompson, and
Montgomery. Ayes, 55. Nays, 4.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Balboni.
3586
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Madam
President. I'd like to announce an immediate
meeting of the Crime and Corrections Committee
in the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There
will be an immediate meeting of the Crime and
Corrections Committee in the Majority
Conference Room.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, can we
also return to reports of standing committees.
I believe there is a report of the Rules
Committee at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Reports
of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
from the Committee on Rules, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 289, by Senator Alesi,
an act to amend the Penal Law;
542, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
832, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the Family Court Act;
3587
1362, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
1601, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
1788, by Senator Kuhl, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
2205A, by Senator Santiago, an act
authorizing the City of New York;
2363, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Civil Service Law;
2784, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;
4530A, by Senator Seward, an act in
relation to adjusting;
4601A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
5046, by Senator Saland, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
5333, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
6032, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
6247, by Senator DeFrancisco, an
act to amend the General Business Law;
6431, by Senator Saland, an act to
3588
amend the Penal Law;
6528, by Senator Wright, an act in
relation;
6582, by Senator Maziarz, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
6761, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Real Property Tax Law;
6965A, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Public Officers Law;
7001, by Senator Stafford, an act
making certain findings;
7084, by Senator Hoffmann, an act
to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;
7164A, by Senator Stafford, an act
to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
7202, by Senator Balboni, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
7340, by Senator Espada, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
7388, by Senator Meier, an act to
amend the Social Services Law;
And Senate Print 7430, by the
Senate Committee on Rules, an act to amend the
Social Services Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
3589
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Before you do
that, Madam President, can I move to accept
the report of the Rules Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: All in
favor of accepting the report of the Rules
Committee signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Opposed,
nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
report is accepted.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk, Madam President?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes,
there is.
SENATOR BALBONI: Can we please
do that now.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
3590
Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
President.
On page 17, I offer the following
amendments to Calendar 380, Senate Print
6133A. That's on behalf of Senator Skelos.
And I ask that that bill retain its place.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: I offer the
following amendments on behalf of Senator
Skelos, on page 60, Calendar 1094, Senate
Print 6635, and I ask that that bill retain
its place.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Maltese, Madam President, on page 68,
Calendar 1176, Senate Print 7367, I offer the
following amendments and I ask that that bill
retain its place.
3591
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, could you please call up Calendar
1210.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
1210, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate
Print 7430, an act to amend the Social
Services Law, in relation to medical
assistance exclusion.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Madam
President. Could we please have the last
section read for purposes of Senator Espada
voting.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
3592
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Espada.
SENATOR ESPADA: Yes, I'd like to
vote no on that bill, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Espada will be recorded in the negative.
Withdraw the roll call.
Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, could we please withdraw the roll
call.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The roll
call is withdrawn without objection.
SENATOR BALBONI: Oh. Madam
President, will you please call on Senator
Hassell-Thompson to vote on that particular
bill, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
3593
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Hassell-Thompson, would you care to announce
what you intend to do?
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you, Madam President. I wish to vote no on
this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Hassell-Thompson, you will be recorded in the
negative.
The roll call is withdrawn.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you.
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President, could we please withdraw the roll
call now. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The roll
call is withdrawn without objection.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson.
3594
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, I had asked for an explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley -- Senator DeFrancisco, an explanation
of the bill has been requested.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes,
Senator Farley needs a break this year.
This bill basically is pretty well
stated in the one paragraph that comprises the
bill. And it basically provides that Medicaid
will not pay for an abortion unless it's
necessary to save the mother's life or the
pregnancy is a result of rape or incest which
was reported to a law enforcement agency, or
under other conditions required by federal law
as a condition of continued state
participation in federal Medicaid funding.
And the debate has been going on on
this bill for many, many years. And some of
the important points, I think, are the fact
that we are in the minority in providing this
unlimited funding without restriction.
Thirty-six other states have restrictions such
as this.
Secondly, the amount of funding
3595
that this means approximately every year is
over $30 million. And moreover, 90 percent of
the abortions that are funded under the
current system are abortions at request,
without any medical reason behind it.
As a result, I think that we should
become in conformity with the other states,
the 36 other states, and provide that Medicaid
funding for abortions should be limited to
these three areas that I described before.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Senator Oppenheimer.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
Madam President.
I feel that we are a state that has
been progressive and has been caring of women.
And I'm very proud of that, that New York
State has always been ahead of the curve and
that we have consistently demonstrated our
support for women.
After all, we had the protection
and the opportunity for women to seek healthy,
clean abortion services even before Roe versus
Wade became the law of our nation. And I
3596
think this is something that we should be
proud of, that we have been, in this state,
kind to women and have done most of what I
would like seen for women in this state.
There are still areas I would like to continue
to work on.
But I think the thing that is most
compelling in this issue is that a well-to-do
woman of even average income is certainly
capable of having the wherewithal to finance
an abortion if she feels that this is
something that is absolutely essential to her
well-being, her family's well-being, and the
well-being of the child when the child is
born. I think every child certainly has the
right to be born wanted and therefore loved
and cared for.
So to say that because you are poor
you are not entitled to these freedoms that
are provided to women in our country I think
is a very sad commentary. And so I don't want
to believe that our state only cares for the
wealthy and the middle class and doesn't care
for the poor woman who wouldn't be able to
access this kind of safe and clean service
3597
that she needs.
And as we know from our history, we
know that women who can't afford this and
didn't have it available in the past -- you
know, maybe 30 years ago -- they still did
what they had to do. And if a woman has to -
feels she has to get rid of the fetus, it will
happen and it will happen in a back alley and
it will happen with a lot of death.
Because we have awesomely awful
statistics on what happened before Roe versus
Wade and before New York State made this more
progressive policy two years prior to Roe
versus Wade.
I also would point out, lastly,
that of the interest groups, those who favor
this are only a handful and all are very
involved within particular religious
framework. Whereas those who are very much
opposed to this are an enormously broad
cross-section of people in this country -
unions and religious groups, League of Women
Voters, which I am particularly close to,
Republican women, Democratic women, just
innumerable numbers of organizations. Medical
3598
organizations, nurses' organizations.
So I think this is really a bill
that has very limited interest within our
state, though it does seem to have a great
deal of interest within this body. But I can
say that I believe our state is a very
strongly pro-choice state and that almost all
women and most men believe that this is the
way for us to go to maintain it for all
people.
I'll be voting no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's a
little misleading to suggest that we're going
back to the days before Roe versus Wade,
because the horrors that the Senator is
talking about was at a time when this state
held abortions to be illegal. So people could
take all kinds of different avenues in order
to get an abortion if they wanted one.
Today, abortions are legal. Some
feel they're not moral. Some people feel they
should not be; others feel that it's a woman's
right. But the fact of the matter is
3599
abortions are legal in the state today. This
issue is simply who should pay for them.
And this bill basically says the
taxpayers should not pay for this procedure,
which is an elective procedure. There are
many elective procedures that are available to
women, men, and all races and creeds. But
that doesn't mean the State of New York has to
pay for procedures that are elected by
someone.
As far as poor people are
concerned, you know, there are many different
organizations that help the poor on all
different aspects of their existence. And
there's nothing preventing people to pay
whatever the cost of an abortion may be for
that person. We have organizations that fight
for abortion rights. They certainly -- as the
opponents do, they certainly spend an awful
lot of advertising dollars and lobbying
dollars. I would think that there would be
an avenue of funds for people who are poor.
All this bill says is unless it's
one of these three enumerated reasons, the
State of New York taxpayers should not pay for
3600
a woman's choice in this type of situation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President.
I listened with fascination to
Senator DeFrancisco, because last year when we
discussed this bill I said exactly what he
just said, that abortion is legal in the
United States, it is legal in New York State,
there's no dispute here. While we may have a
broad dispute about whether or not it should
be legal, it is legal.
The issue in this legislation is
really not about abortion. It's really about
whether or not we're going to discriminate
against poor people in the provision of health
services. And I would strongly suggest that
there are many things that all of us object to
in this state budget.
I object to incarcerating people
under the Rockefeller Drug Laws. Does that
mean that I shouldn't participate in things or
try and stop the state from doing that? No, I
should try and reform those laws.
3601
I object to spending money to
subsidize corporations that don't create jobs
and then move out of the state. The fact of
the matter is our state is moving -- and
Governor Pataki is taking great pride in
touting this -- towards more health care
coverage for poor people. That is the right
direction. HCRA, Family Health Plus, the
Women's Health and Wellness Act, these are
movements in the right direction.
And the one piece of legislation
that's just sort of stuck in the crack of
history that will not let us move forward as
we should is this piece of legislation.
Abortion is legal, this bill says
abortion is legal, but if you're poor, you
can't take advantage of it. If you're poor,
we may provide you with some health care
services but we're not going to provide you
with the opportunity to exercise your
constitutional right to an abortion, to
control your body as provided for by the
United States Supreme Court and in the law of
our own state.
So I would suggest that anyone who
3602
cares about the provision of health care
services to our neediest citizens should vote
no on this piece of legislation. I think we
are moving in many respects in a good
direction in regard to health care in this
state. We have a lot further to go far. We
have far too many people uninsured.
But please don't vote for this bill
thinking that this is something that has to do
with whether or not abortion is legal.
Abortion is legal. This is simply about
denying these services to poor women across
our state.
I vote no, and I strongly urge all
of my colleagues to vote no. Even if you're
antichoice, if abortion is legal I don't
understand how you can say it's only legal for
the rich and not legal for the poor. That, to
me, is an independent and separate wrong that
we should not participate in in this house. I
vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you,
Madam President. I have debated this bill, I
3603
think, with Senator Farley a number of times.
And my views on this bill as a matter of
fairness, as Senator Schneiderman mentioned,
or as a matter of justice, as Senator
Oppenheimer mentioned, are well known.
What I'm intrigued about, Madam
President, is that I just don't understand our
process here. Last Thursday I believe 58
members of this house voted for a budget that
allowed Medicaid funds to be used to pay for
abortion. And I didn't vote for that bill. I
voted against it. I didn't like the process;
I complained about the process then.
But nonetheless, I think with the
exception of Senator Krueger, Senator Duane,
and myself, every member of the Republican
conference voted to allow state funds to be
used to pay for medically necessary abortions
for women on the Medicaid program. Here we
are four days later, and we've suddenly
changed our mind?
What I would just suggest, Madam
President, is that the place for this
amendment was last Thursday. If it had been
proposed last Thursday, it would have been a
3604
serious attempt to change the law of this
state. And it would have triggered, in my
opinion, a serious debate, since the issue was
the money and how much we were going to pay
for and who was going to be paid for what
services. I think under those circumstances I
think everybody in the chamber would be
reasonable to conclude that this was a very
serious effort to try to define what state
money should be used for.
To have this vote occur within the
shadow of the budget, the first day four days
later -- when it doesn't have an appropriation
attached to it, when it can't affect the
appropriations in the budget, when it comes
outside the budget context -- suggests to me
as a ten-year veteran of this chamber that
there has to be some other purpose behind it.
And I appreciate Senator
DeFrancisco stepping up. I know that this
bill, this concept is vitally important to
members in this chamber on that side of the
aisle as well as this. But to do it now, four
days after 58 members in this chamber said it
was okay and passed a budget, including a vote
3605
from every single Republican in this house in
favor of a budget to spend money for Medicaid
funding for abortion now, suggests to me, just
suggests slightly, I guess, based on my
experience, that there has to be some other
motive.
And with all due respect, I just -
I don't understand our process. I don't
understand why we do this now. It would have
meant a great deal and I think would have been
a fascinating debate when the money was in our
hand, when we were standing there about to
decide where it goes.
I have voted against this for the
justice and fairness reasons expressed by my
colleagues. I will vote against it again with
just a big question mark saying why now, why
didn't we do this when it really mattered last
Thursday. And I don't know what the answer to
that is, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Dollinger.
Senator Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. I rise to address the bill.
3606
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On the
bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I was quite shocked to hear Senator
DeFrancisco describe this as an elective
procedure, as if it was parallel to a
facelift. Clearly, when women make the very
difficult decision to end a pregnancy, it is
not an elective decision parallel to cosmetic
surgery or other things we might think of as
elective.
I do appreciate that this bill is a
bit more honest than the debate we had a week
ago when we were debating the issue of
criminal charges for attacking pregnant women
and we were told that that was not a choice
bill. And at least today's bill is clearly a
bill that delineates the definition are we
pro-choice or antichoice. Because, in fact,
for poor women, absent Medicaid coverage, they
don't have choice. They cannot afford
abortions.
We already have 50 percent of the
counties in our state that do not have
providers for abortions. Ending Medicaid
3607
coverage for abortion for poor women in this
state is the equivalent of denying them their
legal right to abortion.
And I also have to take
disagreement with Senator DeFrancisco's
analysis that it costs the State of New York
$30 million a year to provide Medicaid
coverage for abortion. In fact, it saves the
State of New York far more than that each
year.
If we were to calculate in a fair
and honest budget analysis of the costs of
different legislation, we would see that the
cost to New York State if we were not
providing Medicaid insurance to cover
abortions would be dramatically higher to deal
with the costs of illegal abortions and
hospitalizations for women who ended up
hospitalized because of botched and illegal
abortions.
We would pay far more for unwanted
children who were the result of high-risk,
closely spaced pregnancies who were likely, by
definition of being from poor families, to
have a higher chance of being low birth
3608
weight, requiring additional medical expenses
at Medicaid expense.
And we, perhaps most importantly,
would deal with decades of costs for unwanted
children regarding adoption costs, foster care
costs, negligence costs, court costs involved
with dealing with the issues of large numbers
of children who were unwanted brought here.
So I would argue that your fiscal
analysis is wrong, that your analysis that
this is an elective procedure is wrong, that
your analysis that this in fact does not
prevent poor women from getting the abortions
they're entitled to under New York State law
is wrong, and that it is critical that the
State of New York continue its obligation and
its responsibility to ensure that we do not
discriminate against poor women's right to
choice, because that is what the law of this
state is.
So I will vote no and urge everyone
to vote no. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator.
Any other Senator wishing to speak
3609
on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: Slow roll
call.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There
are five members standing. A slow roll call
has been requested.
The Secretary will call the roll.
Ring the bell.
SENATOR BALBONI: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Could we please
delay the slow roll call just a little bit, to
allow the members who are currently in the
committee meetings to make their way over
here.
SENATOR PATERSON: Oh . . .
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson, you have a pain?
SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you very
much, Madam President.
3610
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: You're
welcome, Senator Balboni.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: I believe a slow
roll call has been requested on Calendar
Number 1210. If we could start the slow roll
call at this time.
I know that there's a committee
meeting going on. If we get through the
initial round, we'll wait for absentees, for
the committee people to come in.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will call the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Andrews.
(No response.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Balboni.
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic.
SENATOR BONACIC: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin.
SENATOR BRESLIN: No.
3611
THE SECRETARY: Senator Brown.
(No response.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno.
(Senator Bruno was indicated as
voting in the affirmative.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor.
(Senator Connor was indicated as
voting in the negative.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator
DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: To explain
my vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I voted in
the affirmative.
I just wanted to comment on a
couple of things that Senator Krueger
mentioned. That if this bill passed -- the
comment was made that if this bill passed and
it became law, abortion would only be a legal
right for the rich.
I just learned from Senator
Schneiderman that the average cost of abortion
is $180 to $250. I reiterate what I said
3612
before, there are all kinds of agencies that
are providing funds for the poor for whatever
problem there might be. And it would seem
that there would be enough agencies out there
to make certain that the poor had access to
abortions if they elected to have one.
And to me, it's a little -- I don't
know what the right word is. But to claim
that it's cheaper for the State of New York
and we're going to save money by aborting
children because there might be unwanted
children out there that may have problems in
their lifetime or may be abused or may get
into trouble or whatever it may be, that it's
a cheaper solution -- you know, that really
tells me that we've got a problem in society
about really respect for life if we're talking
about it's cheaper to have the abortion and
the State of New York will make money if they
paid now rather than paid later.
And I don't think that's a good
enough reason to oppose this bill. I vote
aye.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
DeFrancisco in the affirmative.
3613
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Dollinger.
SENATOR DOLLINGER: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane.
(No response.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada
voting in the negative earlier.
Senator Farley.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very
much, Madam President. Just to explain my
vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley, to explain his vote.
SENATOR FARLEY: Again, this is a
piece of legislation that brings us somewhat
in conformity with the great bulk of the rest
of the nation. It says elective abortions
will be paid for under conditions that the
federal government has said is where we must
pay for it for poor women.
This does not outlaw abortion, as
so many seem to imply. But it is a bill that
3614
has passed this house year after year after
year which will not even be taken up on the
floor of the Assembly, which is unfortunate.
But there's many of us that feel very deeply
on this issue, and I respect -
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley, one moment.
Will you take your conversations
outside. Thank you very much.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you.
I respect the position that many of
you have that are pro-choice. And I would
presume that you respect the position of
people that feel very strongly about life.
Actually, in this bill that we're
going to pass today, I hope, there are a
number of people that are pro-choice on this
side of the aisle that vote in favor of this
bill because they feel it is not the position
of the government to get in to pay for
elective abortion, including our Governor.
This is a piece of legislation
which is reasonable. It is one that says that
we will pay for abortions where the life or
3615
health of the mother is in jeopardy, in rape,
in incest. And for an elective abortion, it's
a personal and it's a private decision and it
will be paid for with personal or private
funds or by Planned Parenthood or whoever
might want to pay for those elective
abortions.
And again, we always talk about or
it's brought up about unwanted children or
unwanted -- who are they unwanted by? I think
it's very, very dangerous to say that -- and I
think it's rather terrible around the world,
as a matter of fact, in several countries
where the birth rate is lower than the death
rate. And it's basically because of
abortions.
I vote aye.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Farley will be marked in the affirmative.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Gentile.
SENATOR GENTILE: No.
3616
THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez.
(No response.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon.
SENATOR HANNON: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Hassell-Thompson voting in the negative
earlier.
Senator Hevesi.
SENATOR HEVESI: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann.
SENATOR HOFFMANN: To explain my
vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Hoffmann, to explain her vote.
SENATOR HOFFMANN: I think it's
very important to just establish that the
rights of poor women are as important in this
state as the rights of middle-class or wealthy
women. And to deny women of fewer means the
same access to quality health care of any kind
would be a terrible, terrible abuse.
It pains me to have to speak to
this issue again in such a short period of
time, but I am saddened that there are so many
in this chamber who would like to see abortion
3617
outlawed totally.
I would keep the focus on this
specific issue today and say that the poor
women of this state deserve the quality care
that we would want to provide for any woman of
this state. I will vote nay.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson.
SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator L.
Krueger.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. I rise to explain my vote.
As I said before, I will be voting
no on this bill.
Just to respond to Senator
DeFrancisco's comments during his explanation
of his vote. In fact, $250 for an abortion
for the average woman on Medicaid who is a
poor woman who is living with an income of
under 70 percent of the federal poverty level
3618
is an impossible cost. In fact, $250 may be
half of their total income and will prevent
them from meeting their other basic needs.
So I would argue that without
Medicaid coverage, we would be preventing poor
women from getting abortions.
And in response to the comment on
the costs involved with unwanted children, in
fact it was Senator DeFrancisco who opened
that door by arguing for this bill as a
cost-saving device, saying that the State of
New York would save $30 million a year if we
weren't paying for abortion under Medicaid.
In fact, we will have expenses
associated with women who cannot afford
abortions if we were to implement this bill
into law.
And to clarify, I think in response
to Senator Farley's comments also, I will
fight just as hard for the rights of poor
women to keep their children and to meet their
children's needs as I will fight for the
rights of poor women to have equal access to
abortion.
Thank you.
3619
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Liz Krueger will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator C.
Kruger.
SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack.
SENATOR LACK: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
SENATOR LARKIN: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell.
SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese.
SENATOR MALTESE: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Marcellino.
SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
3620
THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi.
SENATOR MARCHI: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier.
SENATOR MEIER: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Mendez, to explain her vote.
SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, yes.
Madam President, last week, except
for three colleagues of mine in this chamber,
everybody voted to make it possible for
couples who suffer from infertility to be able
to receive taxpayers' monies to remedy that
situation.
I think that -- and the women that
we were thinking of at the time were not the
poor women. They were probably middle-class,
professional women, affluent women. And we
went out of our way to help them resolve the
problem of infertility.
I am voting against this bill
3621
because I really believe that the women who
are poor, they should have the monies
necessary if they choose not to have a child.
So that I'm voting in the negative.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Mendez will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will continue to call
the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Montgomery.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam
President, just briefly to explain my vote.
I am voting no on this legislation.
I think it is discriminatory against women who
do not have means. They should have the same
access to legally endorsed medical care and
assistance as every other woman in the state
who is covered by any other insurance policy.
So I am voting no to say to women
who do not have means that I care about their
rights to health care the same as I do every
other woman in the state.
3622
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery, how do you vote?
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will continue to call
the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato.
SENATOR ONORATO: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Oppenheimer.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Oppenheimer, to explain her vote.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'll be
voting no because I truly believe that
reproductive freedom is -- it's a hollow
concept if you don't know how you're going to
be able to fund it.
And many of the women in this state
are faced with just that situation, and they
don't know how to go about getting medical
3623
access without having the funds.
So let me mention two other things
that were brought up by other senators. I
would say that the main reason that we have
low numbers of births has absolutely nothing
to do with abortion but rather with the costs
of raising a child, of educating a child, and
of just caring for the basic needs of a child,
considering at the same time that in our
society both parents have to work in order to
be able to maintain an income for a family.
And that addresses a whole plethora
of issues which I hope someday to be able to
address on the floor of this chamber,
including what we pay, minimum wage.
The other thing I'd like to mention
is I think it was Senator DeFrancisco said
something about, or maybe it was Senator
Farley, that the bill covers also not just
incest or life but also the health of a woman.
The health of the woman is not
mentioned in this bill. And I think that is a
glaring point that has to be -- we have to
differentiate here. When it comes to the
health of a woman, one has to think of whether
3624
she is in a position emotionally, financially,
educationwise, jobwise to bring a child into
the world.
And I think that poor women are
entitled to this choice and their mental
health and physical health have to be
considered. I'll be voting no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will continue to call
the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
SENATOR PADAVAN: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: To explain my
vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson, to explain his vote.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, a woman's right to choice has been
the law of this land and in this state for the
last 30 years. There are some who disagree
with that, probably for moral conviction, not
the least of which would be Senator
DeFrancisco and, before him, Senator Farley
3625
and the late Senator Donovan, who felt very
strongly on this Medicaid funding issue and
fought on this floor for it for hours in the
time I was here.
While I respect them, the reality
is that to pass this legislation to put it
into law would seriously diminish the right of
women around this state, all women, to receive
these services. Just for the reason that this
whole issue is so controversial, you cannot
compare this surgery to the normal types of
elective surgery that are not covered.
It obviously has very severe
consequences for those who go through it. Do
they always consider those consequences?
Maybe not. But not one woman in this state
that seeks an abortion in my opinion should
not get one due to financial reasons.
And what happens as a result is
that these types of legislation become really
tertiary attempts to diminish the law as it
stands now. If you want to change the law,
then change the law. But as it stands now, to
limit the right or the opportunity of those to
receive this type of coverage in my opinion
3626
really systematically demeans half of the
state's population.
It's certainly time that we
recognized that if more people understood the
circumstances that people who are put in this
position where they have to seek an abortion
through the Medicaid system, the more people
that would understand it, regardless of their
view, they would understand why this is not a
good choice for us to make as a Legislature.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Paterson will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will continue to call
the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
SENATOR SALAND: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson,
excused.
Senator Santiago.
SENATOR SANTIAGO: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No.
3627
THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
(No response.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator A. Smith.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator M. Smith.
SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano.
SENATOR SPANO: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator
Stachowski.
SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford.
SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Stavisky, to explain her vote.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam
President, the bill on line 7 prohibits the
abortion "or where the pregnancy is a result
of rape or incest and the incident is
reported."
3628
How often are these incidents not
reported? How often is the young woman
ashamed of what happened? How often do they
blame themselves for the action?
Secondly, it was said here that
there are social service agencies that will
take over the cost of the abortion. Then
perhaps by inference we ought to let social
agencies take over all health costs.
I think that's a serious mistake,
and I vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Stavisky will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will continue to call
the roll.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo.
SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella.
SENATOR VELELLA: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
SENATOR VOLKER: Aye.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:
Absentees.
3629
THE SECRETARY: Senator Andrews.
SENATOR ANDREWS: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: No.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane, why do you rise? To explain your vote?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President, yes.
I first want to clarify that I was
not absent, I was in a committee meeting.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: I don't
know as you were marked absent, Senator Duane.
So thank you very much for that clarification.
SENATOR DUANE: You're welcome,
Madam President. It was said "now we'll call
the absents," and I was not absent.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Okay.
SENATOR DUANE: I don't question
Senator DeFrancisco's convictions, although -
I -- I don't see him. But anyway -- and I
don't think that there's any question on how I
feel about this matter.
And I suppose it's an important
issue, though it's been discussed ad nauseam
3630
in the Legislature long before I arrived here.
I don't think it has much chance of passing in
the Assembly.
But I don't understand why it came
out of the Rules Committee. It's no surprise
that this bill was going to hit the floor. So
it could have actually been done earlier in
the session. It could have come out of
another committee so we could have had a
hearing on it.
But I suppose that now we can
expect all the big ones to come out of the
Rules Committee. So I'll expect that we'll
see SONDA come out of Rules soon and the
Dignity for All Students Act come out soon.
In fact, just today I had a group
of gay and lesbian young people come to my
office and lobby the Senate to pass the
Dignity for All Students Act. And I really
couldn't tell them why it was that we wouldn't
pass a bill that would help stop them being
harassed or beaten up in school merely because
of their sexual orientation or gender
identity.
So when they said, "Gee, why
3631
doesn't the Senate take up this bill?" and I
don't really know what to tell them, I guess
now I could tell them: Well, we can expect to
see it come out of Rules soon, because it's
that time of year.
Though Dignity for All Students
would be new for the Senate. The bill we're
voting on today is not.
You know, it's no secret I think
there's a certain amount of dysfunction here
in the State Senate.
But all that said, I'm going to
vote against this bill. I really think that a
woman's right to control her body is one of
the most important rights that we have in this
state, in this nation, and we should in no way
ever erode that, no matter what the income
level that the woman may have or what her
health insurance status may be.
So I'll be voting no on this, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Duane will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will continue to call
the roll.
3632
THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez.
(No response.)
THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays,
26.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Yes,
there is.
Senator Libous.
SENATOR SKELOS: Before we do
that, Senator Libous, I'd just like to mention
that today is the birthday of two very
distinguished members of this chamber.
Senator Johnson Marchi, 81 years
old.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Marchi, the Senate offers you happy birthday
3633
wishes.
SENATOR SKELOS: And also Senator
Paterson, who has a few years to catch up, but
we wish him good health and many more years in
this chamber also.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Happy
birthday, Senator Paterson.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos, certainly this great body wishes our
very happiest congratulations to these two
very fine gentlemen.
Senator Libous.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we can go
back to Senator Libous.
And just so everybody knows, my
birthday is February 16th, and you can mark
your calendars now.
(Laughter.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Libous.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President,
certainly to all those in this chamber who
will have a birthday this year, I would like
to, on behalf of Senator Balboni, on page 27,
3634
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 611, Senate Print Number 5850, and ask
that said bill retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
SENATOR LIBOUS: And, Madam
President, on behalf of Senator Saland, on
page 20 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar Number 451, Senate Print Number 5056,
and ask that said bill retain its place on the
Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
I believe that completes the housekeeping.
There will be an immediate meeting
of the Banks Committee in the Majority
Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:
3635
Immediate meeting of the Banks Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
further business, I move we adjourn until
Tuesday, May 21st, at 11:00 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, May 21st, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:40 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)