Regular Session - June 4, 2002

                                                            3901







                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE











                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD



















                             ALBANY, NEW YORK



                               June 4, 2002



                                11:19 a.m.











                              REGULAR SESSION















            LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President



            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary



































                                                        3902







                           P R O C E E D I N G S



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senate will please come to order.



                            I ask everyone present to please



                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of



                 Allegiance.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited



                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    In the



                 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads for a



                 moment of silence.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage



                 respected a moment of silence.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Reading



                 of the Journal.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,



                 Monday, June 3, the Senate met pursuant to



                 adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, June 2,



                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate



                 adjourned.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Without



                 objection, the Journal stands approved as



                 read.



                            Presentation of petitions.



                            Messages from the Assembly.











                                                        3903







                            Messages from the Governor.



                            Reports of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Would you lay



                 the report of the Judiciary Committee aside



                 temporarily.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 report will be laid aside temporarily.



                            Reports of select committees.



                            Communications and reports from



                 state officers.



                            Motions and resolutions.



                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            On behalf of Senator Rath, on



                 page number 14 I offer the following



                 amendments to Calendar Number 322, Senate



                 Print Number 6048A, and ask that said bill



                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 amendments are received and accepted, and the







                                                        3904







                 bill will retain its place on Third Reading



                 Calendar.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam



                 President, on behalf of Senator LaValle, on



                 page number 28 I offer the following



                 amendments to Calendar Number 652, Senate



                 Print Number 3017, and ask that said bill



                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted, and the



                 bill will retain its place on Third Reading



                 Calendar.



                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam



                 President, on behalf of Senator Marcellino, on



                 page number 7 I offer the following amendments



                 to Calendar Number 136, Senate Print Number



                 4730A, and ask that said bill retain its place



                 on Third Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 amendments are received and accepted, and the



                 bill will retain its place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Are there any











                                                        3905







                 substitutions to be made?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There



                 are none, Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 at this time if we could adopt the Resolution



                 Calendar, with the exception of Resolution



                 5912.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in



                 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,



                 with the exception of Resolution 5912, will



                 signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Resolution Calendar is adopted.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 if we could have the title read on Resolution



                 5912, by Senator Nozzolio, and then move for



                 its immediate adoption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator











                                                        3906







                 Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution Number 5912,



                 paying tribute to the late former New York



                 State Senator George R. Metcalf, in



                 recognition of his distinguished life and



                 career in public service.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    All in



                 favor of adopting the resolution signify by



                 saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 resolution is adopted.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go to the noncontroversial



                 calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 164, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2101A, an



                 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to



                 the temporary discontinuance.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the











                                                        3907







                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 256, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 128,



                 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to



                 criminal penalties.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect in 30 days.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 289, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4145, an











                                                        3908







                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to



                 consideration of prior disciplinary history.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 321, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print



                 5840A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax



                 Law, in relation to providing.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 799, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6401B, an



                 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law,



                 in relation to land use.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the











                                                        3909







                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 835, by Member of the Assembly Weisenberg,



                 Assembly Print Number 2786B, an act to amend



                 the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to



                 training.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect July 1, 2003.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 44.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.











                                                        3910







                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 836, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 2373A, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to the drivers of small school buses.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect 180 days.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 983, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 7144A, an



                 act to amend the Public Health Law, in



                 relation to establishing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                        3911







                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1039, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 2372, an



                 act to amend the -



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Lay it



                 aside, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1055, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print -



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1127, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3302A,



                 an act in relation to requiring state



                 agencies.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the











                                                        3912







                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1191, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7065,



                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation



                 to limited permits.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1247, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6368A,



                 an act to amend the Real Property Law, in



                 relation to uniform forms.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.











                                                        3913







                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1252, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 7158, an act -



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1256, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7378,



                 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to



                 contracts for public work.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.











                                                        3914







                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1266, by the Assembly Committee on Rules -



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for



                 the day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside for the day.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1270, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7456A,



                 an act to amend the Education Law and others,



                 relating to Subdivision 9 of Section 1727.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1271, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print -



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for



                 the day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside for the day.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1272, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5769A,











                                                        3915







                 an act to amend the State Finance Law, in



                 relation to appropriation to the Alzheimer's



                 Disease Assistance Fund.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1273, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6089, an



                 act in relation to legalizing, validating,



                 ratifying and confirming.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There is



                 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.











                                                        3916







                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1274, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 6818, an act to amend the Agriculture and



                 Markets Law and the State Finance Law, in



                 relation to enhancement.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This



                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1275, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7218,



                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in



                 relation to procedures.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.











                                                        3917







                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1277, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7400A,



                 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in



                 relation to designating.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1278, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print -



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside.











                                                        3918







                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1279, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7441,



                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social



                 Security Law and the General Municipal Law, in



                 relation to certain lung disabilities.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1280, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7453, an



                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,



                 in relation to the form of appellate briefs



                 and appendices.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.











                                                        3919







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1281, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7459, an



                 act to ratify, legalize and validate certain



                 actions and proceedings.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator Skelos, that completes the



                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 if we could go to the controversial reading of



                 the calendar.











                                                        3920







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you.  The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 14,



                 Calendar Number 321, by Senator Marcellino,



                 Senate Print 5840A, an act to amend the Real



                 Property Tax Law, in relation to providing a



                 tax exemption.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Marcellino, an explanation has been requested.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            This bill provides a tax exemption



                 on real property owned by members of volunteer



                 fire companies or volunteer ambulance services



                 in Nassau County.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Hevesi.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    On the bill,



                 Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Hevesi, on the bill.











                                                        3921







                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  I haven't spoken on one of these



                 bills in quite some time, which is something,



                 because we've passed, I think, now ten of them



                 this year.



                            And I have nothing against Senator



                 Marcellino's idea to provide the exemption for



                 volunteer emergency workers in Nassau and



                 Suffolk or, for that matter, against anybody



                 else representing a county where volunteer



                 workers provide much-needed services.



                            But I don't know why we don't do



                 this for the state.  I mean, it's insulting



                 already.  And I stood on the floor of this



                 house last month and talked about a volunteer



                 ambulance worker from a volunteer ambulance



                 corps in my Senate district who died on



                 September 11th in the World Trade Center



                 tragedy, and I can't get this bill to be a



                 statewide bill so that New York City, if



                 fiscal conditions were appropriate, could



                 provide this exemption.



                            It's just wrong.  I mean, it's just



                 flat-out wrong.  It's unfair and unjust and



                 it's bad public policy to piecemeal, have a











                                                        3922







                 patchwork system where we provide for certain



                 counties and not for other counties the



                 ability to provide this tax exemption for



                 their own members.



                            I don't get it.  I really -- I just



                 don't understand it, Madam President.  This is



                 so simple.  There is no reason not to pass the



                 statewide bill.  I have the statewide bill in,



                 Senator Morahan has the statewide bill in.



                 Nobody in this house has given me a reason yet



                 why this is not a good idea to pass a



                 statewide bill.



                            It's insulting, embarrassing, and



                 bad public policy.  And we continue to slide



                 down some path in this house of just horrible



                 governance.  And though this is not the most



                 critical issue in that this is not something



                 of dire concern, this issue, the way the



                 legislative process has worked with this issue



                 this session, just underscores for me how



                 absolutely broken this process is, what a mess



                 it is.



                            It's really disgraceful.  It's



                 insulting to every volunteer ambulance worker



                 and firefighter in the City of New York and











                                                        3923







                 for every other county, for that matter, in



                 New York State that doesn't have this option.



                 Maybe because their senator is of the wrong



                 party, maybe because their senator didn't ask



                 for it or what have you.



                            It's just wrong.  How can you



                 justify giving this break to somebody in



                 Nassau County and not in Queens County, or in



                 Steuben but not in Bronx County?  How?  I



                 don't understand it.  It's just wrong.



                            You know, I just -- we've got two



                 weeks left in session, Madam President.  Just



                 in the name of fairness and equity.  And New



                 York City doesn't have to do it.  In fact,



                 I'll give you the irony here.  The irony is if



                 I got the statewide bill and we were able to



                 pass it, I would recommend to Mayor Bloomberg



                 that he not provide this benefit to New York



                 City volunteer firefighters and volunteer



                 ambulance workers now.  We can't afford it



                 right now.



                            But it's insulting to suggest -



                 and this is the one argument that has been put



                 forward -- that we don't want to put undue



                 political pressure on a municipality that











                                                        3924







                 can't afford it to go ahead and provide this



                 benefit.  That doesn't give any credit to the



                 political will of those in power.  I would



                 pass this bill, the statewide bill, and then



                 say to Mayor Bloomberg:  We can't afford it



                 right now.  When we can afford it, we should



                 go ahead and do it.



                            But to insult all of the people in



                 every county in New York State who do not have



                 this option right now, when they put their



                 lives on the line every single day every time



                 they go out on a run, is just wrong.  And I



                 don't know why nobody understands it.



                            Actually, I do think people



                 understand it.  In fact, I think the ten



                 Republican sponsors of the bills that have all



                 passed this year, they understand it very



                 well.  And I mean them no insult by these



                 comments.



                            But the legislative process is



                 broken here.  It doesn't allow a good bill, a



                 reasonable bill, a just bill -- a bill that



                 does not do any disservice to anybody, that



                 does not disenfranchise anybody, and that does



                 not unfairly burden any municipality cannot











                                                        3925







                 pass.  If no bill passed, that would be one



                 thing.  But now to go and pass ten separate



                 bills this session for different parts of the



                 state is just wrong.



                            And we do this in other areas of



                 public policy too.  And I stopped talking



                 about it, Madam President, about the fifth



                 bill.  And maybe that was my fault.  I don't



                 know if it would have had any impact, but



                 maybe it was my fault.



                            But I can't remain silent any



                 longer.  It's just insulting to New York City



                 volunteers who risk their lives day in and day



                 out and, last year, some of whom paid the



                 ultimate price for their heroism that we don't



                 provide them this benefit that is deserving of



                 the volunteers in Senator Marcellino's Nassau



                 and Suffolk counties, in Senator Kuhl's



                 Steuben County, in Senator Leibell, up in



                 Putnam County, where all these other bills



                 have come from.



                            It's wrong.  Please, with two weeks



                 left in the session, let's do the right thing



                 on this.  Don't do it for me.  I'm a Democrat.



                 I know we don't want to pass Democratic bills.











                                                        3926







                 Give it to Senator Morahan.  I don't need



                 credit for it.  All I want is the respect paid



                 to volunteers in New York City and to every



                 other county in New York State for those who



                 sacrifice and risk their lives on a daily



                 basis.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any



                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Hevesi recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1039, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print -



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Excuse



                 me.



                            Senator Skelos.











                                                        3927







                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could



                 interrupt for a minute, there will be an



                 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in



                 the Majority Conference Room.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There



                 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance



                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,



                 can we at this time return to the report of



                 the Judiciary Committee.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Reports



                 of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack,



                 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the



                 following nomination.



                            As a judge of the Family Court for



                 the County of Rensselaer, Catherine Cholakis,



                 of East Greenbush.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Lack.



                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  I rise at this time to move the



                 nomination of Catherine Cholakis, of East











                                                        3928







                 Greenbush, as a judge of the Family Court for



                 the County of Rensselaer.



                            We received the nomination from the



                 Governor.  We examined the credentials of the



                 candidate; they were found to be perfectly in



                 order.  She appeared before the committee this



                 morning and was unanimously moved by the



                 committee to the floor for consideration at



                 this time.



                            And I most respectfully yield to



                 Senator Bruno for purposes of a second.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,



                 I'm proud to rise in the chamber and talk in



                 support of Catherine Cholakis, known to her



                 family and to her friends as Kiki Cholakis.



                            Kiki has all the qualifications



                 that anyone could possibly have to serve as a



                 Family Court judge.  Our chair of Judiciary



                 moved Kiki through the process, reviewed all



                 of her credentials.  She has experience at the



                 local level, the municipal level, general



                 practice, state level, serves as a town



                 justice in a large town in Rensselaer, served











                                                        3929







                 in the DA's office as a prosecutor with



                 juvenile delinquency and young people needing



                 supervision, working with families in that



                 regard.  She works at the Higher Education



                 Department as the assistant counsel there



                 presently.



                            So she has a wide diversity of



                 public interest, public service, with really a



                 record that would be envied by so many that



                 would aspire to be in the court system.



                            Governor Pataki has submitted her,



                 in his great wisdom.  And we are very



                 fortunate that she is willing to take on the



                 awesome responsibilities of a Family Court



                 judge.



                            Her father was Con Cholakis, Judge



                 Con Cholakis, who in Rensselaer County and the



                 Capital Region truly was legendary as a



                 district attorney who served with the greatest



                 of distinction, went on to the Supreme Court,



                 and was the U.S. district judge in this



                 district of the federal courts.  And everyone



                 and anyone knowing him and his family could



                 only say the best things about his commitment



                 and the family's commitment to public service.











                                                        3930







                            So I truly am honored to place in



                 nomination the name of Catherine Cholakis for



                 the office of Family Court judge in Rensselaer



                 County.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you, Senator Bruno.



                            Senator Breslin.



                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            I can only echo Senator Bruno's



                 remarks concerning Catherine, or Kiki,



                 Cholakis.  I have known the Cholakis family



                 for over 30 years.  Kiki's father sponsored me



                 for the federal bar.  And it's a wonderful



                 legacy.



                            And to look at Kiki's now



                 experience as a lawyer at such a relatively



                 young age, working in the state level, working



                 in the Family Court itself in all the



                 different capacities, and working as a town



                 judge since 1996.



                            I know that the rest of her



                 family -- her brothers, who are lawyers, her



                 cousins, her uncles, Tom and Nick, are all



                 very, very proud of her.  And I know most of











                                                        3931







                 all -- in addition to her husband, Richard -



                 her mom, who's up there, Dassie Cholakis, is



                 very proud of her.

                            And it's wonderful for me to be



                 able to speak for someone who will make



                 Rensselaer County and the State of New York



                 very, very proud to have her as a Family Court



                 judge.



                            Thank you very much, Madam



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you, Senator.



                            The question is on the confirmation



                 of Catherine Cholakis, of East Greenbush, as a



                 judge of the Family Court for the County of



                 Rensselaer.  All in favor will signify by



                 saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:



                 Catherine Cholakis is hereby confirmed as a



                 judge of the Family Court of the County of



                 Rensselaer.











                                                        3932







                            The judge, the honorable judge, is



                 joining us in the chamber today.  And may I



                 take this opportunity to say congratulations



                 to you on behalf of the New York State Senate.



                            And she is joined by her husband,



                 Richard Kemner, her mother, Dassie Cholakis,



                 and family and friends.



                            So may I say congratulations to



                 you, and welcome.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the



                 Court of Claims, Dorothy Ann Cropper, of New



                 York.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Lack.



                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            I rise once again to move the



                 nomination of Dorothy Ann Cropper, of New



                 York, to succeed herself as a judge of the



                 Court of Claims.



                            We've examined the record and the



                 credentials of the candidate.  She appeared











                                                        3933







                 before the committee earlier this morning, was



                 unanimously moved to the floor for



                 consideration at this time.



                            And I yield to Senator Krueger for



                 purposes of a second.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Krueger.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                 I'm very happy to rise to support the



                 Honorable Dorothy Cropper's reaffirmation to



                 remain a judge in the Court of Claims.



                            Judge Cropper has spent her entire



                 career working in public service in our legal



                 system.  She started out with the Legal Aid



                 Society, in various roles.  She continued her



                 role through the judicial system and has been



                 in the Court of Claims since 1974.



                            I'm very appreciative of the fact



                 that this fine judge is willing to spend her



                 entire career supporting our judicial system



                 and ensuring that in the state of New York the



                 people who go before our courts get the best



                 representation possible.



                            So I applaud Judge Cropper for



                 continuing her role in the Court of Claims,











                                                        3934







                 and I'm very happy to have an opportunity to



                 congratulate her and her husband on their



                 continued participation here today with us.



                            Thank you very much.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 question is on the confirmation of Dorothy Ann



                 Cropper, of New York, as a judge of the Court



                 of Claims.  All in favor will signify by



                 saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Dorothy



                 Ann Cropper, of New York, is hereby confirmed



                 as a judge of the Court of Claims.



                            The judge is joining us in the



                 balcony today, along with her husband, Jean



                 Cropper.



                            And may I say congratulations to



                 you, and best wishes on behalf of the New York



                 State Senate.

                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.











                                                        3935







                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the



                 Court of Claims, Edward M. Davidowitz, of



                 White Plains.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Lack.



                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  I rise once again to move the



                 nomination of Edward M. Davidowitz, of White



                 Plains, to succeed himself as a judge of the



                 Court of Claims.



                            Judge Davidowitz has been on the



                 court since 1986, 17 years.  He has an



                 excellent reputation as an acting Supreme



                 Court justice in Bronx County, handling



                 criminal matters pursuant to the drug laws.



                            Judge Davidowitz is also to be



                 congratulated for going through the



                 renomination process once again, although he



                 is unfortunately facing mandatory retirement



                 at the end of this year, pointing out a



                 problem that we have in our statutory and



                 constitutional law with respect to forced



                 retirement of judges at age 70.  Of course,



                 this does not pertain to Supreme Court



                 justices.











                                                        3936







                            There are revisions to the



                 Constitution that have been proposed.  But



                 because of the difficulty of amending the



                 Constitution of this state, it has become



                 virtually impossible to pass those.  And we



                 are in danger of losing not only Judge



                 Davidowitz but other very competent judges who



                 sit on the bench who reach the age of 70 and



                 therefore are forced into retirement



                 unnecessarily while they have many more good



                 years to contribute to the people of the State



                 of New York.  And that is surely the case with



                 respect to this distinguished jurist.



                            But in any event, I'm very happy,



                 on behalf of the Senate, to put forth the



                 nomination of Judge Davidowitz at this point



                 for reconfirmation.  We of course received his



                 credentials once again from the Governor,



                 examined his record, found him to be an



                 excellent jurist in terms of all the years



                 he's devoted to the people of the State of



                 New York.



                            He appeared before the committee



                 earlier this morning, was unanimously moved to



                 the floor for consideration at this time, and,











                                                        3937







                 Madam President, I'm very happy to put his



                 name into nomination, consideration for a



                 final vote on the floor now.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 question is on the confirmation of Edward M.



                 Davidowitz, of White Plains, as a judge of the



                 Court of Claims.  All in favor will signify by



                 saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Edward



                 M. Davidowitz, of White Plains, is hereby



                 confirmed as a judge of the Court of Claims.



                            His Honor is in the balcony joining



                 us today.  May I say, on behalf of the New



                 York State Senate, congratulations.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the



                 Court of Claims, Ronald H. Tills, of Hamburg.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Lack.











                                                        3938







                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            I rise to move the nomination of



                 Ronald H. Tills, of Hamburg, to succeed



                 himself as a judge of the Court of Claims.



                 We've examined his credentials, his past



                 performance in the Legislature, and as a



                 member of the judiciary.



                            He appeared earlier this morning



                 before the committee, was unanimously moved



                 for consideration by the whole body at this



                 time.



                            And I most respectfully yield for



                 purposes of a second to Senator Rath.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Rath.



                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you,



                 Mr. Chairman, and Madam President.



                            I would say that I got lucky today



                 because the folks on the floor who might have



                 seconded Judge Tills are at a Finance



                 Committee meeting.



                            And as many of you don't know



                 Western New York, we break down into north



                 towns and south towns.  Well, I'm from the











                                                        3939







                 north towns, but Judge Tills is from the south



                 towns.  That does not mean we do not know each



                 other nor haven't known each other for a very



                 long time; we have.  And I was so happy to see



                 the nomination move forward and advance today.



                            Judge Tills is not only a friend



                 professionally, because of being of the same



                 group of judges in the 8th Judicial District,



                 of which my husband is a member, but we've



                 known him personally much longer and in many



                 ways before that.



                            Judge Tills is a graduate of the



                 University of Buffalo Law School and has been



                 in the Court of Claims since 1995.  What you



                 might not know about Judge Tills if you



                 weren't here the first time he was confirmed



                 was that from 1969 until '78, he was a member



                 of the New York State Assembly.  He was a



                 member of the Codes Committee, a member of the



                 Judiciary Committee, chairman of the Select



                 Committee for Revision of Corporation Law.



                            I've heard judges say often when



                 they're puzzling, out socially:  "What do you



                 suppose the Legislature meant when they passed



                 this piece of legislation?"  And I have heard











                                                        3940







                 other judges say, "Thank goodness there are a



                 few judges around who have served in the



                 Legislature, because they have an



                 understanding of what the Legislature might or



                 might not have meant," as they're attempting



                 to figure out what was in the minds and the



                 legislative intent.



                            I know Judge Tills has served that



                 way not only personally, with his own personal



                 calendar, but I'm sure he's been helpful to



                 colleagues in attempting to sort out some of



                 the kinds of things that come from the



                 Legislature that the judiciary needs to sort



                 out.  It's an urgent role for people to



                 understand.



                            His civic service and religious



                 organizations and fraternal organizations are



                 as long as both arms put together.  And



                 besides that, he's a superb gardener.  Anyone



                 who gardens knows a great deal about life.



                            And so I'm delighted to be able to



                 second your nomination, Judge Tills.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 question is on the confirmation of Ronald H.



                 Tills, of Hamburg, as a judge of the Court of











                                                        3941







                 Claims.  All in favor will signify by saying



                 aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Ronald



                 H. Tills, of Hamburg, is hereby appointed and



                 confirmed as a judge of the Court of Claims.



                            Joining His Honor in the balcony is



                 his wife, Elizabeth Tills.



                            And on behalf of the New York State



                 Senate may I say congratulations and welcome,



                 Judge Tills.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a judge of the



                 Family Court for the County of Erie, Kevin M.



                 Carter, of Buffalo.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Lack.



                            SENATOR LACK:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            I rise to move the nomination of











                                                        3942







                 Kevin M. Carter, of Buffalo, as a judge of the



                 Family Court for the County of Erie.  We



                 received the nomination from the Governor.  We



                 reviewed the credentials of the nominee.  They



                 were found to be perfectly in order.  He



                 appeared earlier this morning before the



                 committee, was unanimously moved by the



                 committee to the floor for consideration at



                 this time.



                            And once again, I'm very happy to



                 yield for purposes of a second to Senator



                 Rath.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Rath.



                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you,



                 Chairman Lack and Madam President.



                            I rise once again to speak on



                 behalf of one of our Western New York natives



                 who is coming to a position in the Family



                 Court, hopefully, as he is confirmed, to show



                 great promise and great dedication down the



                 line of the future.



                            I think it's wonderful as we see



                 our young people having shown so much



                 dedication as they've come through the











                                                        3943







                 education system and through the community.



                            Kevin Carter is a graduate also of



                 SUNY Buffalo and has done some wonderful



                 things in his young life.  He started into his



                 law practice around 1989, 1990, immediately



                 started in as an assistant professor in one of



                 our community colleges, working in the



                 criminal justice department.  He went forward



                 to concentrate his practice in domestic



                 relations and family law in his professional



                 side.



                            But his community service is what



                 has always caught my attention and caught so



                 many people's attention.  He began an attorney



                 internship program at both Erie Community



                 College and Buffalo State College, a student



                 legal forum program, worked with youth



                 basketball, mentor programs in the high



                 schools.



                            This young man, as he moves into



                 the courts and will serve there for many years



                 as a distinguished jurist, will bring pride



                 not only to Western New York but all of New



                 York State.  I'm happy to second the



                 nomination of Kevin Carter.











                                                        3944







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Brown.



                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            I also rise to support the



                 nomination of Kevin Carter to the Family



                 Court.  I think Mr. Carter is an excellent



                 nomination.



                            I've had the pleasure of knowing



                 Mr. Carter personally and can speak to his



                 community service that Senator Rath previously



                 spoke to.  He has worked with young people.



                 He has helped a large number of young people



                 get into law school.



                            I can think back to my own former



                 chief of staff, when I was a Buffalo City



                 Council member, who was a young man that Kevin



                 Carter had the opportunity to mentor:  Craig



                 Hanna.  He is now a successful attorney for



                 the City of Buffalo.  And one of the things



                 that he said to me when he worked for me was



                 that he would not be an attorney today if it



                 wasn't for the influence and mentorship of



                 Kevin Carter.



                            Kevin is someone who cares deeply











                                                        3945







                 about the community.  And I think Mr. Carter



                 will be a wonderful addition to the Family



                 Court.  Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you, Senator Brown.



                            The question is on the confirmation



                 of Kevin M. Carter, of Buffalo, as a judge of



                 the Family Court of the County of Erie.  All



                 in favor will signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Opposed,



                 nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Kevin M.



                 Carter, of Buffalo, is hereby confirmed as a



                 judge of the Family Court for the County of



                 Erie.



                            Joining us in the balcony today is



                 His Honor and his wife, Regina Carter, his



                 children, Cavina and Marcus Carter, his



                 parents, Edward and Carol Ann Carter, and



                 family and friends.



                            And may I say congratulations to



                 Judge Carter, and welcome, and congratulations



                 to you from the New York State Senate.











                                                        3946







                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 if we could return to the controversial



                 calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1039, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 2372, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to the disqualification of a bus



                 driver.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:



                 Explanation.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside



                 temporarily.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside temporarily.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1055, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4606B, an



                 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control



                 Law, in relation to licensed wineries.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator











                                                        3947







                 Kuhl, an explanation has been requested.



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            This is a bill that is simply meant



                 to clarify a piece of legislation that was



                 adopted by this chamber back in 1984.  The



                 clarification goes to the extent that wineries



                 and farm wineries which operate retail stores



                 off the premises of the winery or farm winery



                 retain the privilege of wineries or farm



                 wineries that operate on-premises retail



                 stores, including the right to operate on



                 Sundays.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.  Nays,



                 2.  Senators Hassell-Thompson and Onorato



                 recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.











                                                        3948







                            Senator Andrews.



                            SENATOR ANDREWS:    Madam



                 President, I request unanimous consent to be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 347,



                 S2372.  Calendar 836, I'm sorry, 2372.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Andrews, is the Senate number 2373A and



                 Calendar Number 836, is that correct?



                            SENATOR ANDREWS:    No, it's wrong,



                 I'm sorry.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    What



                 calendar number is it you're speaking of?



                            SENATOR ANDREWS:    That's a good



                 question.  I withdraw my request.  I withdraw



                 it.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Thank



                 you, Senator Andrews.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1252, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 7158, an act to amend the Civil Service Law



                 and others, in relation to updating certain



                 provisions.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator











                                                        3949







                 DeFrancisco, an explanation has been



                 requested.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    As a result



                 of the census that was taken a while back -



                 about a year ago, I guess, is when it was



                 finalized -- the population of Syracuse



                 declined.  What this bill does is keep the



                 various provisions that apply to cities of



                 150,000 people to 175,000 people in effect at



                 a lower population.  That would be 125,000 to



                 175,000.  And each of the areas that it



                 affects are listed in the bill memo.



                            And that's the purpose of the bill



                 and that's what it would do.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Last section.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.











                                                        3950







                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1270, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7456A,



                 an act to amend the Education Law and others,



                 in relation to a new system of governance.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Velella.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Yes,



                 Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could lay



                 that aside temporarily and perhaps complete



                 the balance of the controversial calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside temporarily.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1277, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7400A,



                 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in



                 relation to designating public safety



                 officers.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator











                                                        3951







                 Skelos, an explanation has been requested.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 this legislation, which was introduced at the



                 request of the Town of Hempstead, would grant



                 peace officer status to Town of Hempstead



                 public safety officers.  They would exercise



                 their powers of peace officer while acting



                 pursuant to his or her special duties as a



                 public safety officer.



                            And it's very similar to other



                 legislation that we've passed and had signed



                 in this chamber.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Duane.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  Through you, Madam President, if



                 the sponsor would just yield for a question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Skelos, will you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm wondering if



                 the sponsor could just enlighten me as to what



                 the difference is between the -- who the peace











                                                        3952







                 officers are as opposed to who the police



                 officers are and what kind of job categories



                 they have.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    The public



                 safety officers in the Town of Hempstead



                 protect the public buildings that are owned by



                 the Town of Hempstead.  And parks also.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Any



                 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1278, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7408,



                 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel



                 Wagering and Breeding Law, in relation to











                                                        3953







                 payment.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside



                 temporarily.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The bill



                 is laid aside temporarily.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Duane.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  If I could have unanimous consent



                 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar



                 Number 1055.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    So



                 recorded, Senator Duane, thank you.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,



                 if we could return now to Calendar 1270, by



                 Senator Velella.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1270, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7456A,



                 an act to amend the Education Law and others.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation.











                                                        3954







                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Velella, an explanation has been requested.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam

                 President, this is a bill whose time has come.



                 It is a next phase in the continuing efforts



                 of this body to try and improve the



                 educational system in the city of New York.



                 It follows many reforms that we have led the



                 way in the Senate for the City of New York,



                 reforms that started back with the Marchi



                 Commission, when John Marchi was a freshman,



                 School Custodian Reform Act, the 1996 school



                 governance changes that were made, elimination



                 of principal tenure, the Teachers of Tomorrow



                 and Teach 2 programs that the Senate led the



                 way on.



                            And now this program, which for



                 many years I -- when I was in the Assembly,



                 and while I have been here through Mayor



                 Beame, Mayor Koch, Mayor Dinkins, all of the



                 mayors, whether they be Republican or



                 Democrat -- I have supported and been the



                 sponsor of their legislation to have the mayor



                 of the City of New York take control of the



                 Board of Education.











                                                        3955







                            This bill is an outline of how that



                 would be done.  As a former president of a



                 school board for three years, I experienced



                 firsthand how the city system worked and how



                 there were necessary to make changes.  We made



                 some of those changes as I outlined,



                 especially in 1996 when we made major changes,



                 taking a lot of powers away from the school



                 boards.  But this bill will make substantial



                 changes and improve the system.



                            I don't think we have a constituent



                 out there who is satisfied with the



                 educational system in the City of New York,



                 when you consider the amount of money that we



                 put into that educational system and the



                 product that we are getting out.  This is not



                 what the people of this state, what the people



                 of New York City want from their educational



                 system.  They want a better system than they



                 have, and this will accomplish that.



                            The bill will allow the mayor to



                 select the chancellor, it will give him all



                 appointments of trustees overseeing the New



                 York City School Construction Authority.  The



                 central Board of Education will be eliminated,











                                                        3956







                 with all administrative and operational



                 functions and responsibilities going to the



                 chancellor.



                            There will be a Panel for



                 Educational Policy established with 13



                 members.  Seven will be appointed by the



                 mayor, one by each of the borough presidents,



                 and the chancellor will be the chair of the



                 panel.  The members will not receive a salary,



                 will not have cars, will not have perks, but



                 will be reimbursed for actual and necessary



                 expenses.



                            The Panel for Educational Policy



                 will have the authority to change school



                 district lines once every ten years, beginning



                 in 2004.



                            The superintendents of the



                 districts will serve at the pleasure of the



                 chancellor.  However, local community school



                 boards still submit the names for



                 consideration to the chancellor.



                            The chancellor has the power to



                 reject principal appointments, which will be



                 made by superintendents at the district level,



                 and the salary and conditions of employment of











                                                        3957







                 the chancellor will be determined by the



                 mayor.



                            The chancellor will have the



                 authority to present to the City Council a



                 submission for a new five-year educational



                 facilities capital plan.



                            These are the basic parameters that



                 we are going to use to change the system, to



                 improve it.  We have every agency under the



                 direct supervision of the mayor of the City of



                 New York except the Board of Education.  And



                 those of us who live in the City of New York



                 know that when Election Day comes, the mayor



                 is always bombarded, no matter who he may be,



                 about the failures of the system.



                            And we've had in the city a big



                 circle.  The mayor -- people say to the mayor:



                 "You're not going doing the job for



                 education."  And he says, "It's not my job,



                 it's the chancellor's.  I don't have the power



                 to change it.  The chancellor changes it."



                            So you go to the chancellor and the



                 chancellor says:  "No, no, I don't have the



                 power.  It's the board, the members of the



                 board that have the power.  I only can











                                                        3958







                 implement what they have."



                            And you go to the members of the



                 board, and they say it's the mayor.



                            So we have a big circle.  Nobody is



                 responsible, but we pour a lot of money in,



                 and no accountability.



                            This changes that.  This makes the



                 mayor responsible.  And every four years, no



                 matter who that mayor is, no matter what party



                 he belongs to, the people of the City of New



                 York will have the opportunity to say:  You



                 have delivered the educational services we



                 want or you haven't.  They can vote him out of



                 office and get a new mayor in who will appoint



                 someone to do the job differently.  The same



                 way we deal with our police commissioner, our



                 sanitation commissioner, and all of the other



                 essential services of the City of New York.



                            How much more basic, how much more



                 essential is it that we have accountability



                 for the education of our young people.  This



                 bill will accomplish that.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Madam











                                                        3959







                 President.  Thank you, Senator Velella.



                            Senator Velella described extremely



                 well why this bill is on the floor.  I would



                 urge my colleagues to support what we are



                 doing here today.  The time has come.  We have



                 waited.  This year we were hopeful that there



                 would be some agreement between the Assembly,



                 the Senate, the Mayor, the Governor.  And we



                 are here today still hoping that that will be



                 the case.



                            We feel that by moving this bill



                 forward and by passing this bill, with the



                 support of the Mayor, with the support of the



                 Governor, that the Assembly will either



                 introduce their bill, pass a bill, so we can



                 then know what our differences are.



                            Apparently there are a couple of



                 major differences presently that exist.  I



                 believe they can be resolved in very short



                 order.  One of them is whether the chancellor



                 appoints the superintendents or not.  And to



                 me, the Mayor has said it right.  If you have



                 a CEO -- and that's what the chancellor is -



                 that CEO has to have accountability from the



                 people who run the business or who run the











                                                        3960







                 school system.  And those people that run the



                 school system will be the superintendents.



                 And he has to -- the chancellor has to have



                 them accountable to him or her.



                            So that has to happen in order for



                 the Mayor to truly say that he can take



                 responsibility for the $10 billion worth of



                 school aid that flows through that system, for



                 the 1.1 million plus students who, presently,



                 50 percent of them don't meet the state



                 standards for reading or math.  Shame on the



                 people who are running that system.  Shame on



                 us if we allow that to continue.



                            It can't continue.  And we're not



                 going to allow it to continue.  And whatever



                 has to be done, we have to do.  Twenty percent



                 dropout rate, compared to the state average,



                 in the city.  Think about that.  One out of



                 five don't graduate in the city.  And we



                 wonder why we have the problems that we have



                 with delinquency, with crime, with people who



                 can't earn a living.



                            So we have to do something about



                 this.  We have waited.  And thanks to Senators



                 Velella and Padavan and Senator Marchi, who











                                                        3961







                 started this 11 years ago, Senator Maltese,



                 Pedro Espada, Senator Pedro Espada.  And I



                 know the New York City members on the other



                 side of the aisle have a vital interest in



                 doing something about it.



                            The other thing this does is take



                 the capital construction fund that spends



                 billions of dollars and gives that mayoral



                 control, with the chancellor appointing one



                 member and the mayor appointing two.



                            So that's as it should be.  The



                 mayor is elected by the people in New York



                 City.  He wants the responsibility to fix a



                 system that doesn't work.  And we, in all good



                 conscience, ought to take the politics out of



                 running the school system and leave it to the



                 elected representative of the people in New



                 York City.



                            Thank you, Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Connor.



                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            Let me echo Senator Bruno's words:



                 Shame on us.  Shame on us.  Read, my











                                                        3962







                 colleagues, the decision in the CFE case where



                 Justice DeGrasse found that this Legislature



                 has shortchanged New York City schoolchildren



                 billions, billions of dollars.  Read that



                 decision.  And look at the school-aid runs



                 every year where some suburban districts get a



                 disproportionate share.



                            And by the way, Madam President,



                 that Campaign for Fiscal Equity suit, it's not



                 just the City of New York.  Poor rural areas,



                 upstate urban areas, shortchanged on



                 resources.  Madam President, you can talk



                 management, management, management all you



                 want.  But the fact of the matter is resources



                 matter in terms of education.



                            Madam President, I'm not against



                 the mayor taking responsibility for the school



                 system.  Someone has to take responsibility.



                 But I think we fool ourselves if we think



                 tinkering with governance systems will produce



                 necessarily a better product in our schools.



                            Madam President, we've been there



                 before, decades ago.  A dysfunctional central



                 board system was disbanded by this



                 Legislature, left in place only for the high











                                                        3963







                 schools, and we created community school



                 boards to give local communities and parents,



                 supposedly, a greater role.  And we've had to



                 revisit that and change their powers because



                 it was abused because of political influence.



                            This fascination that you can



                 just -- with the idea that you can just change



                 the structure of governance and somehow or



                 other totally change an entire culture, an



                 entire culture that pervades this Legislature,



                 the culture of shortchanging New York City



                 schoolchildren.



                            And it's not just this Legislature.



                 Senator Bruno talked about $10 billion in



                 state school aid and we want to know that it's



                 accounted for in the schools.  Well, Madam



                 President, I want to know it's accounted for



                 in the schools.  I want to know it got to the



                 schools.  Because I'm tired of going back to



                 my constituents year after year after year,



                 over the years, and saying we got more school



                 aid for New York City, and finding out that



                 the mayor and City Council used that money to



                 balance their books elsewhere.



                            I don't want our school-aid money











                                                        3964







                 going to repair the streets in New York City,



                 much as they may need it.  I don't want our



                 school-aid money going to serve municipal



                 sanitation needs or parks or anything else.



                            Madam President, the school-aid



                 money that we give New York City should go to



                 the schools.  And the city should maintain its



                 ordinary share of school expenditures just



                 like every other locality, just like every



                 other locality in this state, Madam President,



                 outside of the big cities, has its school



                 money, its local share, and also has to use



                 the school-aid money for the schools.



                            This bill doesn't guarantee that



                 maintenance of effort by New York City.  Oh,



                 yes, the mayor can say, "Give us the



                 $10 billion, we'll give it to the schools,"



                 and then can lower the city's contribution.



                 We've never had the kind of home-rule school



                 system that many of the communities throughout



                 New York State have.



                            Madam President, resources matter.



                 Resources matter in our poorest,



                 underperforming schools; resources matter in



                 our best schools.











                                                        3965







                            I'm privileged to be a



                 public-school parent.  My son goes to what is



                 generally acknowledged to be certainly the



                 best high school in the state and one of the



                 best in the nation.  It kind of appalls me



                 when I look at the piddling budget they get



                 for things like a debate team or academic



                 extracurriculars, which every fine high school



                 in America participates in.  All the schools



                 in the suburbs do.  The Board of Ed gives the



                 school exactly zero for that.  Zero.



                            My colleagues, go back and ask your



                 best schools.  Does your local board of ed



                 give them some money for those kind of



                 academic teams?  I'll bet the answer is yes.



                 New York City gives none.  Not to any of its



                 schools.  Not to the best schools, not to the



                 middling schools, not to the worst schools.



                 Resources do matter, Madam President.



                            You know, in New York City for



                 those academic high schools where the kids



                 want to go to college, Madam President, they



                 absolutely limit the number of college



                 applications any student can put in.  They



                 tell the student:  Pick four.  That's all











                                                        3966







                 we're going to process.  Why?  Not enough



                 money for guidance counselors.  Not enough



                 money for college admissions counselors.



                 They're not there.



                            I know it's bureaucracy,



                 bureaucracy.  Unfortunately, you can't run a



                 school system with over a million students



                 without some level of administrative



                 bureaucracy.  I think it's bloated, I think



                 it's overblown, I'd like to see better



                 management.  But, Madam President, this



                 mayor -- any mayor that thinks they can manage



                 their way out of the crisis in education in



                 New York City is deluding him or herself.  I



                 don't point at just this mayor.  Future



                 mayors, past mayors.



                            It's not simply a management



                 problem.  Oh, we thought that when we put



                 community school boards in and community



                 superintendents, to make it smaller at the



                 grade school and middle school level, a



                 smaller system, 32 different systems.  That



                 didn't work.  That didn't solve the problems.



                            One of the problems, Madam



                 President, is the level of parental











                                                        3967







                 involvement in education.  We have to



                 encourage that.  This bill has no real



                 parental participation on the newly created



                 Panel for Educational Policy.



                            This bill also, Madam President -



                 under state law, the chancellor must have



                 academic credentials, a doctorate in



                 education, or a chancellor candidate must get



                 a waiver from the State Education Department



                 showing comparable academic educational



                 achievement and demonstrating the skills



                 necessary to manage the schools.



                            Madam President, this requirement



                 is suddenly waived.  It will apply to every



                 other school system in the state, as well it



                 should.  But to tell the mayor of New York



                 City -- who, after all, in the finest sense of



                 the word is a politician, whoever he or she



                 may be -- that not only you can pick the



                 chancellor but you can pick anybody you want



                 without any review by the State Education



                 Department to see if the academic and



                 educational credentials are there or



                 equivalent credentials are present, Madam



                 President, that's wrong.











                                                        3968







                            What if some future mayor decides



                 this is a great patronage plum and gives it to



                 someone whose credentials are solely



                 political?  This bill would allow that.  I



                 think it's the wrong way to go, Madam



                 President.



                            I think letting the mayor pick the



                 chancellor I'm comfortable with.  But I think



                 that chancellor has to be someone who meets



                 the standards set forth in state law for who



                 can hold such a position.



                            This bill also basically strips the



                 community school boards of any role.  And I



                 think we have to be more creative in terms of



                 how we ensure on that community level there is



                 an opportunity for parental involvement.  This



                 doesn't do it.



                            But, Madam President, aside from



                 the fact that this doesn't guarantee that a



                 penny of school aid that we pass will get to



                 New York City schools, I think the most



                 nefarious part of this bill, frankly, is that



                 it's a back-door attempt to put vouchers in



                 place.  Because this bill authorizes that



                 politically appointed chancellor to authorize











                                                        3969







                 vouchers to parents for attendance at private



                 schools.



                            And, Madam President, anyone,



                 anyone that appreciates the need for a public



                 school system, that appreciates what the



                 public-school free educational system has done



                 for this state, for New York City, for this



                 nation, has to be against vouchers.  It will



                 suck the monetary lifeblood out of the public



                 school system.



                            One of the problems in New York



                 City, and I hope we can come up with a way to



                 counter this, is that large parts of the upper



                 middle class and wealthier people have simply



                 bailed out on the public school system in



                 frustration, and you have very, very



                 expensive, very, very fine private schools



                 throughout the city.



                            And frankly, that's what upper



                 middle class and wealthier people opt for.



                 It's not uncommon for people to pay $16,000 or



                 $17,000 a year tuition for first, second,



                 third grade.  Believe me, Madam President, I



                 know, from personal experience, that's what



                 the tuition is.  You have two kids, $32,000,











                                                        3970







                 $33,000 to send your kids to grade school.



                            Very, very few people can afford



                 that.  And to take money -- and to those who



                 can, it's their prerogative.  But to take



                 money out of the public school system and give



                 it to those parents who are doing that is



                 simply wrong, Madam President.  It will be the



                 death knell of the public school system.  It



                 will leave only the poorest of the poor



                 enrolled in the public schools.



                            If for no other reason, Madam



                 President, I would oppose this bill.  If it



                 solved all the other problems I have with



                 it -- maintenance of effort, whatever -- I



                 would oppose this bill because of its voucher



                 provisions.  New Yorkers don't want vouchers.



                 I'm certain of that.  New Yorkers want public



                 schools that work.  This bill would allow for



                 vouchers.  And I think it's just simply a



                 back-door way to let a mayor usher in a



                 voucher system without any further



                 by-your-leave from anyone.



                            I am opposed to it for that reason,



                 Madam President.  The magic solution of



                 changing the management system somehow -











                                                        3971







                 although a management system and



                 accountability is needed.  As I said, I would



                 support mayoral control.  But not with



                 vouchers.  Not with the mayor free to take all



                 the education money and use it for something



                 else.  That I will never support, Madam



                 President.  I'm voting no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Padavan.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            There's much of what the Minority



                 Leader has said that I share, and there's some



                 things which not only I don't share but I



                 think he's totally in error on.  And first let



                 me speak to the last issue he addressed.



                            There's absolutely nothing in this



                 bill that enhances any component of the



                 educational system by virtue of an authority



                 to implement a voucher system.  Absolutely



                 nothing.  The panel that's established, the



                 chancellor appointed by the mayor, none of it



                 are given any new prerogatives in that



                 particular area.  Unless I have not read that



                 section of the bill properly.  I would be











                                                        3972







                 happy to discuss it with Senator Connor.



                            Where he and I do agree is when it



                 comes to the issue of special needs.  If you



                 had an opportunity to read the 98-page



                 decision that Judge DeGrasse rendered in the



                 Campaign for Fiscal Equity case -- and if you



                 have not read it, I urge you to read it -- he



                 points out that numerical shares are not the



                 answer to quality education, that need is.



                            Need as defined by those



                 circumstances that various children find



                 themselves in -- socioeconomic, foreign



                 languages.  70 percent of our children are



                 minorities, many of them come from foreign



                 countries.  184 different languages and



                 dialects.  These are all defined in terms of



                 needs.  And meeting those needs is very, very



                 costly.



                            Particularly -- and here again,



                 Senator Connor and I agree -- where there's no



                 support in the home to the extent that it



                 produces a better educational environment.



                 What I mean by that is parents make sure they



                 do their homework, help them with their



                 homework, if they have a problem go to school











                                                        3973







                 to resolve it.  Unfortunately, in too many



                 parts of the city of New York, that just



                 doesn't exist.



                            And the only way you can address



                 those needs is by additional resources:



                 Smaller class size, after-school programs,



                 summer school, and so on.



                            Now, as a matter of fact,



                 approximately $5.5 billion in state aid goes



                 to the City of New York.  If you want to do



                 the arithmetic, with a student population that



                 just went down this past year -- it's now less



                 than 1.1 million, about 50,000 less than



                 that -- we're in the 37 percent category.  And



                 the funding is commensurate.  But that doesn't



                 meet the need.



                            However -- and here again, Senator



                 Connor and I agree -- if you read Judge



                 DeGrasse's decision, he points out that over a



                 specific time frame that portion of the city's



                 commitment to education went from 41 percent



                 down to 37 percent.  So indeed, as we have



                 been sending more money, as we did in this



                 budget we adopted a couple of weeks ago, to



                 the City of New York, they have used that











                                                        3974







                 money -- you can play games with the semantics



                 here, but what it boils down to is that was



                 not a net increase over the city's share on a



                 proportionate increase basis, meaning that



                 they maintained their effort as we increased



                 ours.  The answer is no, they haven't.



                            And so we hope, it is our certainly



                 our goal that before we leave here, if we're



                 successful with governance, that we also



                 produce a maintenance of effort bill, as we



                 did in 1994, which will affect not only the



                 City of New York but the other four dependent



                 school districts in the state.



                            And some of you have talked to me



                 about that, in support of that initiative,



                 because you recognize this problem that I just



                 outlined about need and that Judge DeGrasse



                 addressed in his case, his decision, also goes



                 beyond the City of New York, it does go to



                 other cities in our state.



                            It is unfortunate that we're



                 dealing with a bill that is not in full



                 agreement with the Assembly.  But on the other



                 hand, they haven't introduced a bill.  We had



                 a public hearing -- some of you were there.  I











                                                        3975







                 know Senator Montgomery was there, others were



                 there -- in April, April 5th.  Everyone came



                 to that hearing who had anything to say, from



                 the mayor, the comptroller, the city



                 comptroller, the head of the City Council, the



                 speaker of the City Council, private sector,



                 public sector, school board members and so on.



                 And it was all -- it's all contained in the



                 report.



                            So we did it out in the open, let



                 everybody have their say.  And much of what



                 was said at those hearings is embodied in this



                 bill in terms of, let's say, the majority view



                 of all those who came before us.  Is it



                 everything the Mayor wants?  No.  It is



                 everything the Speaker wants?  No.  But I



                 think it does strike a balance.



                            And I would echo what Senator Bruno



                 indicated in his remarks.  We are not that far



                 apart on many key issues, such as the



                 selection of superintendents.  Our proposal



                 has this system.  Currently the school boards



                 send five names on a list, and the chancellor



                 has to select from those five, one of those



                 five, or he can reject the entire list and say











                                                        3976







                 "Send me a new list."



                            That's cumbersome.  In some



                 districts, it's not been effective and it's



                 produced undesirable results, such as District



                 29 that Senator Malcolm Smith and I represent.



                            What we have in this bill is that



                 school boards can recommend a superintendent.



                 They might choose perhaps a very good



                 principal in their district who they think



                 would make a good superintendent.  But the



                 ultimate authority and decision would rest



                 with the chancellor.



                            So if you look at the proposals



                 from the Mayor, the comments, public



                 comments -- which we don't have a written bill



                 from the Assembly -- and ours, we're not that



                 far apart.  That can be resolved.  The powers



                 of the central panel can be, I think, adjusted



                 to meet everybody's needs and desires.



                            Now, Senator Connor mentioned the



                 need for more parental involvement.  Well, in



                 '96, I remind you all -- because most of you



                 were here -- we created the leadership



                 councils in every school.  Not just by



                 volunteerism, but mandated that they exist and











                                                        3977







                 that everything that goes on in that school



                 would be able to them for review and comment.



                            Well, we can't get any closer to



                 the kids than the individual school with their



                 parents and their teachers sitting on those



                 committees.



                            Now we might want to expand that.



                 If somebody's got some ideas how to do that,



                 great.  But they do exist.  And they vary in



                 terms of their effectiveness, as you would



                 understand they do.  A thousand schools, some



                 of them are very good because the parents and



                 the teachers are very active, and some of them



                 are not quite as good.



                            You know, how you change all of



                 that by legislation I haven't the slightest



                 idea.  But in any event, the framework exists,



                 and we can build upon it if we choose to.



                            I think on balance this is a good



                 bill.  Ultimately, hopefully, we'll have a



                 bill that both houses can agree on and the



                 Governor can sign and we can get this



                 evolution -- and I view it as such, from '96



                 to now.  The things we did in '96 I think were



                 all positive.  This is another step.  We've











                                                        3978







                 reformed custodians, we did away with



                 chancellor's tenure, we did the '96 reform,



                 and now I think it's time for this measure



                 also.



                            Thank you, Madam President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, could we announce an immediate



                 meeting of the Tourism Committee in the



                 Majority Conference Room, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    There



                 will be an immediate meeting of the Tourism



                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.



                            Senator Lachman.



                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Madam Chairman,



                 on the bill.



                            First and foremost, I want to



                 commend Mayor Bloomberg for making education



                 the signal issue of this administration, just



                 as Mayor Giuliani attempted to make the



                 reduction of crime the signal issue in his



                 administration.



                            I also believe with the Mayor that



                 the mayor should have more power, much more











                                                        3979







                 power.  But the question I pose is:  Should he



                 possess absolute power?  And this bill gives



                 the mayor absolute power.



                            First of all, you just have to look



                 at the name of what was a Board of Education.



                 It's no longer a "board of education," it's a



                 Panel of Educational Policy, a Panel of



                 Educational Policy consisting of eight people,



                 one would be the chancellor, and five others



                 selected by the borough president.



                            There is almost no division here of



                 policy-making and administration.  Everything



                 is in the hands of centralized authority.  And



                 I had always thought that a good conservative



                 philosophy was the devolution of central



                 authority into smaller districts where people



                 can have a say in what they're doing.



                            I am also concerned with many of



                 the issues that Senator Connor raised.



                 There's no guarantee here of a maintenance of



                 effort.  Now, someone might have said there



                 was no guarantee when Mayor Koch was mayor, or



                 Mayor Giuliani, or Mayor Beame, or Mayor



                 Lindsay.  But there should be a maintenance of



                 effort.











                                                        3980







                            If we allocate $300 million



                 earmarked for educational use in the city of



                 New York, then if this is to be permanent



                 legislation, that money cannot be taken to



                 fill potholes in the city of New York.  It can



                 only be used to fill the brains and the minds



                 of young people in the public schools of the



                 city of New York.



                            I'm also concerned that the



                 chancellor appoints all superintendents and



                 all principals.



                            And I want to also commend Senator



                 Padavan for making a change in community



                 school boards.  They were supposed to be



                 eliminated.  And I know because of his great



                 efforts they have not been eliminated.  There

                 will be a hearing next year to decide what to



                 do with them.  Why should there be a hearing



                 to decide what to do with them?  Because as of



                 now, they have almost no power in terms of the



                 appointment or selection of superintendents or



                 principals.



                            And may I also add if there is



                 going to be a hearing next year on the future



                 of the community school boards, which











                                                        3981







                 represent local, parental, community



                 authority, there should be hearings about the



                 central Board of Education.  We no longer can



                 take a bill as we did in 1996, when I was



                 here, or 1969, when I was not here, and say



                 this will resolve all the educational problems



                 in the city of New York.



                            There have to be hearings before



                 the bill is constructed, and there has to be a



                 regular review of what the bill is attempting



                 to do and what it does not do.  And I'm very



                 concerned that there were no major public



                 hearings for this piece of legislation, which



                 is of great significance to the state of



                 New York.



                            Now, I'm also concerned that the



                 appeals process, the appeals process of



                 parents of children with disabilities no



                 longer flows through the Board of Education,



                 but through other agencies.  And the question



                 I ask is why.  Why has this change been deemed



                 necessary?



                            I would add at this point that



                 Mayor Bloomberg wisely looked upon Mayor



                 Daley's system in Chicago in order to regain











                                                        3982







                 mayoral control.  Because many of the



                 children -- too many of the children in our



                 system are failing, and parents and educators



                 do not want them to fail.  And the poor child



                 should have the same opportunity as the



                 middle-class child and the wealthy child has



                 in public education.



                            But what is not mentioned in the



                 bill is that the original Chicago bill was a



                 provisional bill for two or three years until



                 it was reviewed, reevaluated, and a permanent



                 bill was written into law.  And that permanent



                 bill in Chicago, under Mayor Daley, is quite



                 different than this bill.



                            Why?  The permanent bill appoints a



                 board of education, and it does not call this



                 board of education a panel of educational



                 policy.  And the board of education becomes



                 a -- selects the chancellor and has control



                 over educational policy, operating policy, and



                 financial policy.



                            This is not the bill that we are



                 talking about where one person, whether he be



                 a Democratic mayor, he or she, or whether he



                 or she be a Republican mayor, has final











                                                        3983







                 control.



                            Now finally, ladies and gentlemen,



                 I think that in many instances this bill that



                 leaves out local community involvement and



                 especially parental involvement -- whether



                 it's District 21 in Brooklyn or District 31 in



                 Staten Island or District 29 in Queens -



                 fails because not only is it a working draft,



                 but it does not look at history and examine



                 history so the history can tell us the



                 mistakes and flaws of the past.



                            In 1805, the New York City Board of



                 Education was decentralized, and the reformers



                 said:  Let's improve education, and we'll



                 centralize the Board of Education.



                            In 1842, the Board of Education was



                 centralized, with the mayor having absolute



                 power.  And the powers that be, the reformers,



                 said:  This is not a good governance system.



                 We have to decentralize the Board of Education



                 and give out more power to the local areas.



                            In 1896, the reformers said



                 decentralization has failed, and in order to



                 improve education in New York one must



                 centralize the authority of education in the











                                                        3984







                 hands of the mayor, who then appointed nine



                 people to the board of education selected from



                 panels.  They in turn appointed a chancellor.



                            In 1969, the reformers said



                 centralization has failed; therefore, we need



                 decentralization.  And a new decentralization



                 bill was passed in 1969 and lasted partially



                 until 1996, when I was here.  And I remember



                 the debate by Senator Goodman and Senator



                 Leichter, who were very upset and distraught



                 that their concept for improvement, based upon



                 decentralization and local control, was not



                 working out.



                            Now, I posit to you, ladies and



                 gentlemen, that the improvement in education



                 in New York is -- yes, it is partially based



                 upon governance.  But it is also based upon an



                 educational philosophy.  It is also based upon



                 involvement of educators, administrators and,



                 most importantly, the parents of students that



                 occupy the classrooms in the community



                 districts of the city of New York.



                            The bill that we have in front of



                 us is a good working draft.  It will be a



                 one-house bill.  It can be improved.  And it











                                                        3985







                 should be improved and enacted into law when



                 it is thus improved and the changes are made.



                 Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Marchi.



                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,



                 I think that of all of the remarks I've heard,



                 there are so many elements that struck a



                 responsive chord with each and every one of



                 us.  And I think you made some very valid



                 points in your conclusion.



                            We are in the throes of not an



                 embarrassment of riches, but a tragedy which



                 is occurring on a daily basis.  And a response



                 there must be.  Senator Velella, who's



                 carrying the major responsibility, he's the



                 major sponsor, with good cosponsors -- of



                 which I'm not one of, since I aspire to see



                 Richmond County proceed virtually as a



                 quasi-independent district because of the



                 size, because of the circumstances that are



                 attendant on the type of community that we



                 have, that we would serve as an ideal model by



                 virtue of experience.



                            But Senator Velella is the only











                                                        3986







                 member in this chamber who has had hands-on



                 experience.  And absent a major consensus -



                 and I think there's a consensus that we simply



                 cannot afford to go on with what we have -- I



                 think his counsel is wise.



                            And based on that, Madam President,



                 I think it's wise to carry and enact his



                 sentiments, along with those who affix their



                 name to it, coming as it does and flowing from



                 the experience of carrying that kind of



                 responsibility.  And I don't think there's



                 anybody else in this chamber that can make a



                 similar claim, and with the numbers of people



                 that were involved.  So I think it's incumbent



                 that we pass this bill at this point.



                            Will there be more legislation in



                 the future?  I am not -- I'm rather inclined



                 to believe that we have not heard the last



                 comment on our status.  But this does



                 represent, does offer some grounds for a



                 hopeful course of events that will flow from



                 its unanimity and make some positive



                 contribution to the education of our most



                 precious commodity, our children of the city



                 of New York.











                                                        3987







                            So I do hope this prevails with a



                 good vote.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam



                 President, in the 45 pages of this bill, I



                 find it very difficult to find anything



                 constructive.



                            You know, sometimes you look at



                 legislation and you say, well, it's sort of



                 like chicken soup, it can't hurt.  This bill



                 is not like chicken soup.  It can hurt.  To



                 say that things can get worse, they certainly



                 will, I think, under this bill.



                            I'm not going to repeat what my



                 colleagues have said.  But one thought



                 occurred to me as I was listening to my



                 friends debate the merits of this bill.  If



                 it's such a great idea, why don't we make it



                 statewide?  Why don't we make it statewide?



                            I find what Senator Connor said



                 about vouchers to be very, very troubling.



                 Secondly, the lack of a role for parents I



                 also find a serious deficit in this



                 legislation.











                                                        3988







                            The fact that there is no



                 maintenance of effort I think is disgraceful.



                 I might have voted for this if it had a



                 maintenance of effort provision, although I



                 agree with very little in it.  I think



                 maintenance of effort is so essential to the



                 solution of some of our problems.  People say



                 money can't solve all our problems.  Yeah, but



                 without funding, we can do very little.



                            I also want to emphasize the fact



                 that giving the mayor the power to appoint the



                 chancellor and the superintendents and, in a



                 sense, the principals and teachers, will



                 return us to the days of Boss Tweed.  We have



                 had mayors who were strong, such as Mayor



                 Giuliani and Mayor Bloomberg.  Do I trust



                 them?  Yes.  But I don't know what's going to



                 happen down the road.  I don't know what kind



                 of mayors we're going to have.  I don't know



                 that they're not going to appoint some



                 brother-in-law who needs a job.



                            I don't want to go back to the old



                 days of lack of a civil service system.  At



                 the turn of the century, we didn't have a



                 civil service system for the appointment of











                                                        3989







                 teachers or principals.  It was a political



                 system.



                            I happen to be a former high school



                 teacher, and my father before me was a high



                 school teacher.  How did he get his job?  He



                 walked into a superintendent's office on the



                 Lower East Side back at the turn of the



                 century and he said he was looking for a job.



                 There was such rampant discrimination at that



                 time, the fact is that although he was Jewish,



                 he did not have a Jewish name.  He had red



                 hair.  And they didn't know he was Jewish, and



                 they gave him a job.  That's not the way to



                 select personnel.



                            The problem as I see it is one of



                 accountability, where they say "it's his



                 fault" and nobody seems to take



                 responsibility.  Will this legislation resolve



                 that?  I don't think so.



                            And lastly, Madam President, it



                 seems to me that governance is not really the



                 issue.  The real issue is are the kids going



                 to do better in school, are they going to



                 learn.  And what's going to help them?  It's



                 been said:  smaller class size, a licensed











                                                        3990







                 teacher in every classroom, parental



                 involvement.  That's what's going to encourage



                 the kids to do better.



                            And, Madam President, I think this



                 is a very, very bad bill, and I will vote no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE:    Senator



                 Hevesi.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.  On the bill.



                            I think we can all recognize and



                 agree on one thing, and there's going to be



                 some serious disagreement -- has already been



                 in this chamber -- about the merits of the



                 bill that's before us.  But pretty much



                 everyone can agree that the system as a whole



                 in New York City is a mess.



                            There are, let me start out by



                 saying, some terrific success stories which



                 should be emulated.  We have some of the



                 finest students, the finest schools anywhere.



                 But overall, the system is a mess.  And



                 everybody has good intentions, everybody wants



                 to fix it, but there are dramatically



                 different approaches to it.



                            For me, there is one fact that











                                                        3991







                 leads to my conclusions about whether or not



                 this is a good idea, and it's the fact that



                 the system in New York City, the school



                 system, has been a mess for so long that you



                 have to really examine the root causes and why



                 no one seems to be able to change it.



                            And I kind of have, for myself, the



                 reason why I believe that's the case.  I



                 believe it's the case because, to my



                 knowledge, there has never been an elected



                 official in New York City who lost his job



                 because of the horrible conditions in the



                 New York City school system.  Never happened.



                            Why?  Because if you said to me:



                 Senator Hevesi, set up a structure that is



                 destined to fail, I would have a difficult



                 time coming up with a worse structure than



                 what currently exists.  To have the most



                 diffuse lines of authority -- there are



                 actually no lines of authority.  That's a



                 misnomer to even say that.



                            Where you have a board of seven



                 members appointed by six different political



                 entities, one each by the borough presidents,



                 two by the mayor, hiring a person to run the











                                                        3992







                 school system, a chancellor, where budgetary



                 powers come from an outside source -- the



                 mayor and the City Council, by extension, the



                 state, and to a smaller extent, the federal



                 government -- where the SCA, the School



                 Construction Authority, is essentially an



                 authority controlled by the governor, where



                 the school facilities' maintenance is done at



                 the local level, within the school system.  It



                 is just an abject failure.  There's no way a



                 system like this is going to work.



                            And so at the end of the day you



                 can tinker around the edges, but what happens



                 is nobody ever gets blamed.  And I know



                 Senator Stavisky just mentioned the blame



                 game.  You need the blame game.  Blame game is



                 how things get done or don't get done.  You



                 need a system where somebody is in charge and,



                 if somebody doesn't do their job, they get



                 fired.



                            That never has happened, to my



                 knowledge, in the modern history of the



                 New York City school system.  Just has not



                 happened.



                            And so everybody targets the Board











                                                        3993







                 of Education.  It's one of the reasons why



                 everybody now concludes things are so



                 terrible.  Because every politician points



                 their finger of blame at the Board of Ed.



                 Everybody says "It's not really my job, I



                 can't fix it, I'm not in charge, I'm not the



                 one."  And they are actually right about that.



                 They are not the one.



                            Let's make them the one.  And the



                 model that I like to use -- and my detractors



                 on this will say, well, you can't equate



                 education to policing.  But in New York City,



                 in addition to the other seven reasons why



                 crime is down, the structure of the police



                 department, the operation of the police



                 department fundamentally changed with the



                 Giuliani administration, where the Mayor hires



                 a police commissioner, who hires his top



                 deputies, the civilian leaders of the



                 department.  That individual or those



                 individuals then go and hire the chief of



                 patrol, chief of department.  They decide who



                 the borough commanders are going to be.  The



                 borough commanders select the precinct



                 commanders, with the consent of the











                                                        3994







                 commissioner and sometimes City Hall.  And



                 those precinct commanders then determine the



                 makeup of their structure within the precinct,



                 the lieutenants and the sergeants.



                            And what happened under the



                 Giuliani administration, with John Timoney and



                 Jack Maple and Bill Bratton, is they said:



                 You are all going to be accountable now.  You



                 come in once a month, and we're going to



                 determine whether or not you have



                 crime-fighting strategies and whether you've



                 implemented them, whether you've targeted



                 crime in your area, what you're doing about



                 it.



                            And I've sat in on those COMPSTAT



                 meetings.  And if you don't perform, you don't



                 produce, you're gone.  There's no democracy



                 within the New York City Police Department.



                            And that structure created



                 proactive policing.  Which, if you talk to



                 police commanders and commanders who were



                 there, before Giuliani they said did not



                 happen.  And as a result, crime was pushed



                 down in New York City further than in other



                 major cities throughout the United States.











                                                        3995







                 That's top-down management.  We have to have



                 that type of accountability in the New York



                 City school system.



                            Now, some people say:  Well,



                 listen, we don't want to politicize education,



                 and that's why we need a separate structure.



                 I cannot think of a more political structure



                 than the New York City Board of Education.



                 You cannot come up with a more political



                 system.  It is by definition political.  And



                 it has so distracted from what should be going



                 on, the discussion that should be going on,



                 which we will all agree is in the classroom,



                 that it is one of the things that has



                 habitually led to nothing getting done to



                 reach the kids on the level where they need to



                 be reached in the classroom.



                            When we have chancellor fights,



                 when there's a chancellor who leaves the



                 system -- and we've had four in the last I



                 think eight years -- when that chancellor



                 leaves the system, there is the most



                 outrageous discourse, a huge fight.



                 Alliances, this one and this one together.



                            In fact, Rudy Crew, who started











                                                        3996







                 out -- and it always seems that the school's



                 chancellor starts out in the public's eye as



                 being terrific and then fails miserably.  And



                 I believe that's not because of the individual



                 but because of the structure.  But Rudy Crew,



                 when he first came in, was a compromise



                 candidate after a really awful fight between



                 members of the board and the mayor and the



                 educational advocacy organizations.  Huge



                 fight.  Always distracts from education.



                 Always misses the point, misses the focus.



                 Really, really bad.



                            And this whole notion that you



                 can't politicize education by giving them



                 mayoral control I think is just silly, because



                 you can do no more worse than have a -- you



                 cannot have a more political system than what



                 you have now.



                            And, Madam President, the argument



                 has also been advanced that you don't want to



                 give the mayor complete control because you



                 don't want him making the decisions, these -



                 such important decisions about the education



                 of our children by himself.  Okay?  It's too



                 important somehow to make those decisions by











                                                        3997







                 himself.



                            Yet let's take a look at the



                 decisions that the mayor does make by himself



                 in New York City.  Just about everything else,



                 including real life-and-death issues.  I mean,



                 life-and-death issues that on a priority scale



                 are higher than educational issues.



                            The mayor can unilaterally cut the



                 size of the police department, reducing patrol



                 strength and diminishing or increasing



                 response times.  He can do the same thing for



                 the New York City Fire Department and its



                 component parts, including EMS, which would



                 increase the amount of time it took for an



                 ambulance to get to your aid if you needed it.



                            The mayor can determine and has



                 determined in the past whether he wants to cut



                 the administration for children's services,



                 which can increase the caseload so we have a



                 worse supervision of children who may be



                 abused and neglected and may wind up dead as a



                 result.



                            The number of inspectors for



                 housing stock in the City of New York -- you



                 name it, we allow the mayor, through the











                                                        3998







                 political system, to make those



                 determinations.  We allow him to do that.  To



                 suggest that we cannot do that for education I



                 believe is just the wrong way to go.  It's



                 just absolutely silly.



                            So what do we have here with this



                 bill?  Is this a bill that I would have



                 drafted myself?  No, but it's pretty close.  I



                 got to be honest with you.  Senator Lachman



                 was correct; this is a bill that gives the



                 mayor almost complete control -- which is



                 exactly what needs to happen.



                            And some people have said, well,



                 it's not about governance, it's about what you



                 do in the classroom.  It is about what you do



                 in the classroom.  But you cannot get there



                 until you stop having all of the structural



                 fights built into the system that we have



                 right now.  You just cannot do it.  Governance



                 is the key.  You cannot move forward unless



                 you have a different system of governance in



                 place.  This is the way to go about it.



                            And here's how I view this bill.



                 And by the way, I will point out I would go



                 further in some areas of this bill.  This bill











                                                        3999







                 doesn't abolish the local community school



                 boards.  I would abolish the school boards in



                 this legislation immediately.  They are



                 completely dysfunctional.  They siphon



                 millions of dollars out of the classroom and



                 into an administrative system that we have, in



                 the past -- in 1996, most notably -- we have



                 justifiably diminished their powers.  But they



                 still present tremendous obstacles.



                            In my home Senate district, I have



                 one of the worst school boards in the City of



                 New York, School Board 24, where, because of



                 the current structure, the infighting on the



                 board, the interplay with the chancellor, the



                 inability for them to decide who the



                 superintendent should be, School Board 24 has



                 been without a superintendent for several



                 years now.  The board just -- they fight with



                 each other.  The issues are never about



                 education.  They are always about who's



                 aligning with this one, what we're going to do



                 to get bad publicity for the chancellor to win



                 our fight because we want our guy in.  It's



                 just ridiculous.



                            And so I would say the following.











                                                        4000







                 Because a lot of people have said to me:



                 "Well, you know, we don't know what Michael



                 Bloomberg's plan is for the school system."



                 And, you know, to be honest, I know what his



                 plan is.  Not because I'm an insider in that



                 administration.  I'm not.  And not because



                 I've heard long, eloquent talks about what he



                 is proposing to do.  But it is many of the



                 same things.



                            There's no silver bullet.  There's



                 no panacea.  This is not rocket science.  It's



                 lower class size, it's more flexible work



                 rules, it's the ability to discipline teachers



                 more quickly and get the bad ones out of the



                 classroom.  It is getting instruction



                 materials into the classrooms that we need.



                 It's having facilities that are good, that are



                 not crumbling.  It's a whole slew of things



                 that we need to do.  Okay?



                            But having said all of that, here's



                 the key.  If Michael Bloomberg stood up today



                 and said "I have no plan," if he said "I have



                 no plan" -- well, if he has said that -- I



                 doubt he said that.  But if he stood up today



                 and said "I have no plan," I'd vote for this











                                                        4001







                 plan anyway.



                            You know why?  Because if he stood



                 up without this bill and says "I have no



                 plan," nothing happens to him.  If we pass



                 this and he stands up and says "I have no



                 plan," he's history at the next election.



                 He's gone.



                            Give him a chance.  This is why



                 Democrat Ed Koch supported mayoral control.



                 This is why Democrat David Dinkins supported



                 mayoral control.  This is why Republican Rudy



                 Giuliani supported mayoral control.  And this



                 is why Democrat-now-Republican Michael



                 Bloomberg supports mayoral control.



                            Now let's talk about one or two



                 other issues, and then I'll stop because I



                 know my colleagues want to talk about this.



                            On the maintenance of effort issue,



                 I support structural reforms to ensure that



                 money that Albany sends to New York City goes



                 where it's intended, for education in the



                 classroom, for its dedicated purposes.



                            In terms of a true maintenance of



                 effort for the City of New York, I understand



                 why Michael Bloomberg doesn't want that.  This











                                                        4002







                 is a difficult issue, and so I want to nuance



                 it here.  I understand why he doesn't want it.



                 He doesn't want it because he's facing a



                 $5 billion budget deficit.  And if you look at



                 the projections, in the next few years that



                 budget deficit is going to increase by up to



                 about $6 billion in fiscal year '05.  Okay?



                 There are even stories in today's newspapers



                 that he may be considering raising taxes.



                            If you lock in a required amount of



                 spending, an additional amount of spending on



                 his part, you may wind up in a system where



                 the mayor will be forced to do some things



                 that we wouldn't want if we were automatically



                 putting a maintenance of effort in here.



                            If the mayor proposed, "Well, I



                 have to make some cuts, I'm going to slash the



                 police force in half because I can't reduce



                 the millions of dollars that I'm now required



                 under a maintenance of effort to spend on the



                 school system," is that something that the



                 people in the city of New York would



                 necessarily agree with?  I'm not so sure.



                            If there was a maintenance of



                 effort in this bill, I'd probably support it











                                                        4003







                 anyway.  But it's not a poison pill for me.



                 It's certainly not a poison pill for me.



                            So what you have here is an



                 elimination of the Board of Education, a very



                 good thing.  You have an educational policy



                 panel, which, if the mayor instructs it to do



                 so, can give its advice on a slew of issues.



                 That's a good thing.  But the mayor now, under



                 this bill, will be able to hire a chancellor,



                 who can then go and hire district



                 superintendents, who can then go and hire



                 principals, who can then go and hire teachers.



                            And this Legislature -- let's be



                 consistent here -- we have embraced the idea,

                 most notably with the endorsement, the



                 structural endorsement of a contract with the



                 supervisors' union, which says essentially we



                 gave a big raise, the public gave a big raise



                 to these folks, and in response to losing



                 tenure, essentially, on behalf of the



                 principals, now the superintendents can have



                 much greater flexibility in moving principals



                 around.

                            You must have this kind of



                 flexibility in order to meet the needs of the











                                                        4004







                 school system.  Put someone in charge.  And if



                 they don't do the job -- and maybe Michael



                 Bloomberg doesn't have the answers.  But if he



                 doesn't, he'll be voted out of office.  That's



                 democracy.  That's how the system should work.



                 No more nebulous system.  No more ambiguous



                 system where you don't know who's in charge.



                            This may not be the perfect bill in



                 your eyes.  It's not the perfect bill in my



                 eyes.  And I do think it's a one-house bill.



                 And I hope whatever the Assembly finally comes



                 around with, we can hash out our differences.



                 Because I would accept less than this.  I



                 think this is pretty good.  Not perfect, but



                 pretty good.  I would accept less than this in



                 order to get something done in this system.



                            The system right now is absolutely



                 broken, broken.  Fix it.  Put somebody in



                 charge.  I find it admirable that you have



                 some elected officials out there who are



                 willing to say, when the public at large has



                 said in many instances this is an ungovernable



                 system, where a guy like Michael Bloomberg has



                 said:  "Put me in charge, and then hold me



                 accountable if I don't do the job."  That's











                                                        4005







                 what this bill does here today.



                            One final point, and then I'll



                 stop.  The final point is on community



                 involvement and parental involvement.  And I



                 know that this is an important issue for a lot



                 of people.  It is not the primary issue for



                 me.  Okay?  This may be a little bit



                 controversial to say.  Parental involvement in



                 the running of public schools in New York City



                 is not my primary concern.



                            My primary concern as it pertains



                 to parents is their involvement in the



                 education of their own children.  That is more



                 important.  I mean, you know, it's very nice



                 if we're able to have parents getting involved



                 and having a voice and having input.  But the



                 notion that parents should be making budgetary



                 decisions of millions of dollars and overall,



                 broad policy decisions pertaining to education



                 I think is not the primary focus.  The primary



                 focus should be to get parents involved in



                 their kids' education.



                            In fact, Madam President, in fact,



                 I believe if we were able to suddenly increase



                 per capita spending in New York City by a











                                                        4006







                 thousand dollars a student, I don't believe



                 that that would increase performance among



                 New York City public school students as



                 measured by test scores more than if you had



                 some way to get every parent constantly and



                 conscientiously involved in the education of



                 their children.  Money is not the entire



                 object here, it is not the entire picture



                 here.



                            And to be honest with you, Madam



                 President -- and I sound like a right-winger



                 here -- I understand why mayors past, why



                 mayors past were reluctant to keep sending



                 money to the New York City Board of Education.



                 They said:  I can't control the system, it



                 just disappears down this sinkhole in New York



                 City.  I don't want to put more money into it.



                            That is how I believe the whole



                 maintenance of effort issue has come around.



                 That's why people are calling for the



                 maintenance of effort.  But I'll tell you



                 this.  If you don't have a maintenance of



                 effort and a mayor decides not to put money



                 into the educational system, if he has



                 complete control, him not putting money into











                                                        4007







                 the education system, he will pay a steep



                 political price for it.  You almost have a



                 political protection in there that prevents or



                 precludes the outright need for a maintenance



                 of effort, which does have some potential



                 problems with it.



                            So let me just finish by saying I



                 think this is a really good idea.  It may not



                 be perfect, but I commend those who have



                 worked on it.  This is the way to go.  We've



                 got to do something here on education.  We've



                 got to have some kind of control where one



                 person is in charge.



                            And I'll tell you something.  The



                 president is not an expert on defense.  He



                 hires a secretary of defense.  He hires a



                 secretary of agriculture and all these other



                 people.  The notion that a mayor who is not an



                 educator can't hire expert people in the field



                 of education is wrong.  That's what he does



                 for every other policy area.



                            Put somebody in charge.  If they



                 screw up, throw them out.  Nobody has ever -



                 no elected official, Madam President, to my



                 knowledge in modern times has ever lost his











                                                        4008







                 job in New York City because of the failures



                 in the education system.  If this bill is



                 passed, that will change.  Or, if it doesn't



                 change, it means the system is now performing



                 because there's accountability.



                            I support this bill.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, there will be an immediate meeting



                 of the Transportation Committee in the



                 Majority Conference Room.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,



                 Senator.



                            There will be an immediate meeting



                 of the Transportation Committee in the



                 Majority Conference Room.



                            Senator Krueger.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Madam



                 President.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger,



                 you have the floor.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam



                 President.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Whoa, whoa, whoa.



                 I called on Senator Krueger.  If she would











                                                        4009







                 like the floor, as she's in order -



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    If I could



                 yield to Senator Stavisky for a moment.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.  This, as far as I'm



                 concerned, is a crucial issue.  And to call a



                 committee meeting while we're debating this



                 bill I think is unconscionable.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger,



                 you have the floor again.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I would



                 also like to yield to Senator Oppenheimer for



                 one minute, Madam President.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator



                 Oppenheimer, why do you rise?



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I would



                 like to be recorded in the negative on a bill,



                 but I've been in committees.  And I'm afraid



                 the session will end -



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator



                 Oppenheimer, we are in the middle of a debate.



                 I will call on you after we're finished.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yeah, but



                 I'll be in the committee.











                                                        4010







                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger,



                 you have the floor.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Point of



                 order.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger



                 has the floor.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I have a



                 point of order.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Senator



                 Oppenheimer has a point of order.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator



                 Oppenheimer, you have a point of order?



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    My point of



                 order is should the session end while I'm in a



                 committee meeting, how do I then register a



                 negative vote?



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Madam



                 President, point of order.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    I believe the



                 rules provide for Senators to cast their vote



                 if they've been out of chamber on other



                 legislative business.  And we'll certainly



                 afford Senator Oppenheimer that courtesy if it



                 becomes necessary.











                                                        4011







                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you



                 so much.



                            I would like unanimous consent



                 to -



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator



                 Oppenheimer, as I stated before, we are in the



                 middle of a debate.  I respected your right to



                 make a point of order, but I'd like to proceed



                 with the debate pursuant to the rules of the



                 Senate.



                            Senator Krueger, you have the



                 floor.  Please proceed with this.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                 In fact, I think that some of the -- to speak



                 on the bill, Madam President, excuse me.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed



                 on the bill, Senator.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            This is such an important issue and



                 such a controversial issue.  This is a bill



                 that's 45 pages of detail.  And in fact, we've



                 had one day to talk about this.  And I think



                 that my colleagues' here point that they're



                 being asked to leave the floor to go into



                 committee and lose their opportunity to listen











                                                        4012







                 to debate and participate in debate is



                 reflective of the fact that the devil is in



                 the details.



                            This is a very, very complicated



                 issue that matters enormously to me and my



                 constituents in the City of New York and I



                 know matters to every representative who



                 represents the City of New York and I believe



                 the State of New York.



                            I will start by saying that I



                 believe that you can support mayoral control



                 of the education system in New York City, you



                 can support ending the Board of Education for



                 the City of New York, you can support mayoral



                 control of the School Construction



                 Authority -- because in fact I do support all



                 of those -- and yet find the devil is in the



                 details and not be able to support this bill.



                            Again, it's 45 pages of detail, and



                 yet so many things are missing.  As many of my



                 colleagues have pointed out today, there's no



                 discussion of maintenance of effort.  And it



                 is a fundamental issue in school governance



                 and improving the schools in New York City.



                 Because the issue is not mayoral control.  As











                                                        4013







                 in fact my colleague, Dan Hevesi, spoke on,



                 the issue is are we going to get better



                 schools for our children.  That's the



                 assignment, regardless of the title of the



                 bill.



                            And we won't get better schools for



                 our children unless we address what we all



                 know are the fundamentals for improving public



                 education, and that is having the resources to



                 have smaller class size in the city of



                 New York and good, qualified teachers and



                 adequate facilities to operate our schools in.



                            And what is, I suppose, most



                 disturbing to me in these 45 pages I've gone



                 through or tried to go through in detail while



                 listening to the debate, there's no discussion



                 of any of that.



                            Again, as I said, I can support



                 mayoral control, and I do.  And I'm on record



                 of doing so.  And yet I can't support a bill



                 that does endorse vouchers.



                            And Senator Padavan earlier



                 responded to Senator Connor, "There's nothing



                 in this bill about vouchers."  But in fact, I



                 will refer him to 2590-G, paragraph 7,











                                                        4014







                 subsection B, which specifically says that it



                 would give the mayor authority to go into



                 arrangements for vouchers as well as



                 privatizing schools and charter schools.



                            And so I cannot support a bill that



                 allows for vouchers and privatization in the



                 City of New York school system.



                            And I don't understand how this



                 bill can go into pages of detail about the



                 requirements for superintendents to report in



                 detail, on a monthly basis, all kinds of facts



                 about their schools, which I believe are



                 important, but talks not once about the



                 additional resources we need to give



                 superintendents and principals in order to run



                 the kinds of schools that we need.



                            Those are the issues that you'd be



                 talking about in school districts throughout



                 the state of New York outside of New York



                 City.



                            I don't understand why we have a



                 bill that proposes to allow the transfer of



                 superintendents and principals without



                 participation by communities.  I know,



                 speaking from my school district, that if we











                                                        4015







                 were to tell the parents in my school district



                 that the mayor would have the authority to



                 take away a superintendent or principals who



                 frankly are doing an amazing job at delivering



                 great educational services in School District



                 2, that we would have a war on our hands.  And



                 even more important, they would quit.  Those



                 superintendents and those principals would



                 pick up and move to other districts outside of



                 New York City in about ten minutes flat.



                 They've told me that.



                            So while we like to give the



                 example that if we give the authority to the



                 chancellor or the mayor to move everyone



                 around of their choice, that we'll have the



                 opportunity to get rid of bad principals and



                 bad superintendents -- and there's no doubt



                 that we have bad principals and bad



                 superintendents.  One of the reasons that we



                 have bad people in our school system, or



                 vacancies, as Senator Hevesi was talking



                 about, is we can't get good people to come



                 into the New York City school system.



                            So giving the mayor and the



                 chancellor the right to automatically and











                                                        4016







                 without discussion with anyone move those



                 principals and superintendents I tell you



                 guarantees us that we will see a continuing



                 drain on the qualified people in the New York



                 City school system.



                            So I can't endorse a bill that



                 would simply lay that out as control of the



                 mayor, because in fact these are critical



                 issues for which whether school districts work



                 and individual schools work.



                            And in fact I don't understand a



                 bill that gives the mayor total control and



                 yet takes away any outside financial review or



                 fiduciary responsibility for other elected



                 officials.



                            There's no other agency in the City



                 of New York where there's not City Council



                 oversight on the budget or comptroller's



                 oversight over the fiscal situation.  And yet



                 in this bill we're taking the council and the



                 comptroller -- sometimes explicitly, and



                 sometimes simply by not making any statements



                 about it -- out of the process completely.



                            One of the problems with the Board



                 of Education all these years -- and in fact as











                                                        4017







                 I have said and will say again, I do not



                 support the existing Board of Education or the



                 continuation of it.  The answer is not to have



                 no fiscal review or financial oversight.  The



                 answer is to ensure you've got a model that



                 includes participation and review of how the



                 dollars are spent in the City of New York.



                            And simply stating that the mayor



                 and the chancellor will have full authority is



                 not the model we should have in government.



                 We should ensure that the city comptroller has



                 review and oversight of how the dollars are



                 spent and that our City Council has



                 participatory oversight in the budget process



                 for the schools, to ensure to all the citizens



                 of New York City that we have real



                 accountability.



                            And in fact, it's a question of



                 checks and balances, as we have here in our



                 own legislative structure with two houses and



                 a governor and a state comptroller.  And



                 there's so much money that does go through the



                 New York City education system that we have to



                 ensure that we have the same checks and



                 balances there.











                                                        4018







                            In fact, this bill explicitly, and



                 I do not understand why, removes the



                 comptroller of the City of New York from



                 having a role in the New York City Teachers



                 Retirement Board decisions.  In fact, it is



                 the model of the City of New York for the city



                 comptroller to have financial oversight and



                 review of other pension and retirement plans.



                 So I don't know why someone would go into so



                 much detail to pull out that responsibility



                 for the city comptroller.



                            Again, the details go on and on and



                 on.  And it frustrates me because in fact I



                 want this issue resolved.  We've been



                 discussing it since Ed Koch.  I think there is



                 general agreement that we need to do something



                 to fix the broken New York City school system.



                 And I'm frustrated that it is so late in this



                 legislative year and there's been so much



                 debate and that today we end up with a 45-page



                 bill for the first time with so many details



                 and so many important issues we should be



                 discussing.



                            I would like to be able to vote for



                 this bill, but I don't see how I can, absent











                                                        4019







                 the fact that it does not deal with a



                 maintenance of effort.



                            I have only been in this house now



                 for 14 weeks.  Upon getting to Albany, I



                 almost immediately started to talk to



                 individual Republican and Democratic



                 legislators about what was, to me, one of the



                 most obvious questions:  Why can't we get fair



                 funding for education for New York City?



                            And I was constantly told



                 individually by legislators:  "Well, let's



                 face it, if we give New York City another



                 dollar of state money for education, they're



                 just going to pull a city dollar out, so



                 you're not going to win anything for your



                 children."  I hear it all the time in this



                 chamber from individuals.



                            So I say how can we responsibly



                 move forward with a bill to change the



                 structure of school governance in New York



                 City and not address our own problem?  I don't



                 want to have to come back here next year,



                 fight for more education funding in our budget



                 and be told "What's the point?  If we give you



                 another state dollar in New York City, you'll











                                                        4020







                 simply take a city dollar out."



                            I agree with Senator Hevesi.  We



                 have a serious fiscal crisis at the budget



                 level.  And much of that responsibility lays



                 right back here on our shoulders for failing,



                 year after year after year, to invest a fair



                 share of state funds in the City of New York,



                 given the proportion of the people who live



                 there and the amount of tax revenue that year



                 after year comes up to Albany from the City of



                 New York.  So we're in fact partially



                 responsible for the fact that Mayor Bloomberg



                 now has to fix a $5 billion deficit in a



                 matter of days.



                            And yet we still have the



                 responsibility, I believe, to the children of



                 the City of New York and to their parents and



                 to ourselves to ensure that we move



                 immediately towards a fair educational formula



                 statewide and that we do hold the City of



                 New York accountable for ensuring that they



                 put in their fair share for public education.



                            And if that means that Albany and



                 the Legislature and the Governor have to in



                 fact then do their job and also give the City











                                                        4021







                 of New York its fair share of education



                 funding out of the total state budget, we



                 would be in a win-win position, not a



                 lose-lose position, if we pushed for a



                 maintenance of effort requirement.  And I



                 believe we cannot pass a bill without a



                 maintenance of effort requirement.



                            I have so many details, Madam



                 President, I could speak, I think, for hours



                 just on the questions I could ask about what



                 is and what isn't in this bill.  But I suppose



                 I will close with one more concern I have.



                            Again, as I have said, I support



                 ending the Board of Education.  And I think



                 the concept of this Panel of Educational



                 Policy is an interesting one.  But again, the



                 devil is in the details.



                            And in fact, when you look at the



                 bill, the language specifically says that the



                 role of the panel will be to consider matters



                 referred to them by the chancellor and the



                 mayor of the City of New York.  Well, the



                 problem with that statement is you end up in a



                 situation where you're only asking the



                 questions you want to hear the answers to.











                                                        4022







                            I would argue that for this to be a



                 true policy panel, the role has to be for them



                 to come up with the issues that they feel need



                 to be brought to the mayor and the chancellor,



                 not simply to be a responsive body to the



                 issues brought to them by the mayor and the



                 chancellor.



                            It would be as if I had 22 major



                 problems as the chancellor of the education



                 system -- and I would guess on any given day



                 any chancellor of the City of New York



                 education system would argue they have 125



                 major problems and issues.  It would be as if



                 I would only bring to you, my policy panel,



                 five issues that I didn't care about because I



                 didn't want your input on the 125 issues that



                 are really needing your attention.



                            So I think that, again, this is a



                 start.  It's a start that I cannot support.  I



                 am frustrated that we are having this start so



                 late in the game.  Again, following the



                 reference of my colleagues, it is a one-house



                 bill.  And I hope that the bill we finally can



                 pass very, very soon will address the concerns



                 I have about what's in here and what's not in











                                                        4023







                 here and finally ensure that the City of New



                 York has the opportunity to make the major



                 structural improvements in our public school



                 system that we so desperately need.



                            So again, in closing, this bill has



                 to have maintenance of effort, it has to



                 address fair funding formulas, it has to



                 ensure that we address, in the governance



                 restructuring of the New York City school



                 system, the issue of smaller class size,



                 better qualified teachers, participation by



                 communities.



                            I don't know that I know what the



                 perfect answer is -- community school boards



                 with certain roles, borough boards.  But I can



                 tell you that the absence of explanation of



                 how we would really address those concerns in



                 this bill will end up resulting in a model



                 that none of us would look back on and say we



                 did our jobs correctly if we passed the bill



                 as is.



                            So I will vote no on the bill.  I



                 urge my colleagues to vote no on the bill.



                 And I hope that we very soon have a different



                 bill to deal with and to come to agreement











                                                        4024







                 with the Assembly and the Governor on.



                            Thank you, Madam President.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Gentile.



                            Excuse me, Senator Paterson has



                 risen.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Madam



                 President -



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, Senator.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    -- I just



                 wanted to bring to your attention that this is



                 a highly controversial bill, and it's very



                 difficult going forward with the interruptions



                 from committee meetings.



                            Because some of the members are



                 notifying me, as the floor leader for the



                 Minority, that they do want to vote on the



                 bill, some of them want to speak on the bill,



                 and they don't want to interfere with the flow



                 of the debate -- in other words, restating



                 issues that were stated before.



                            So I just wanted to suggest that in



                 the future when the -- I think at all times,



                 but at the least in these situations where



                 everyone has an opinion and everyone wants



                 their opinion on the record, I think we have











                                                        4025







                 to be a little more sensitive to the feelings



                 of the members at times like this.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    And we're going



                 to proceed with the debate, which is exactly



                 what you're saying, Senator Paterson.  I



                 couldn't agree more.



                            Senator Gentile.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.  On the bill.



                            If we look at the overall



                 situation, and I believe we have here today,



                 it is clear that changes in the Board of



                 Education are in order.  Certainly, given the



                 history and the record of the Board of



                 Education, that is clear.



                            I'm not sure, though, that what is



                 or should be clear is the fact that we have



                 taken a broad brush here and have painted the



                 whole system in one way.  And that, I believe,



                 is unfair and certainly unjust in several



                 ways.



                            One way is in the fact of the



                 community school boards.  Certainly community



                 school boards vary from neighborhood to



                 neighborhood.  But I think it needs to be said











                                                        4026







                 and it should be said that in the areas that I



                 represent and the areas I will represent, the



                 community school boards are functioning,



                 active, involved and workable units.  Each of



                 them has done a tremendous job in each of the



                 schools.  And I visit schools very, very



                 often.



                            Particularly the one I'm most



                 familiar with, the District 20 school board in



                 Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst, and Dyker Heights in



                 Brooklyn, is a board that should be a model,



                 should be a model for the rest of the city of



                 New York, for the type of school board that



                 they have, for the superintendent, which they



                 chose, who is a leader not only in District 20



                 but has been chosen as a senior superintendent



                 to oversee four other school districts, three



                 in Brooklyn and one in Staten Island.  And



                 certainly he is an educational visionary,



                 someone who a leader and someone who



                 ultimately one day might actually be a



                 tremendous chancellor of the City of New York.



                            That type of functioning unit, that



                 school board, along with School Board 21 and



                 School Board 22 in Brooklyn, are functioning,











                                                        4027







                 active, and involved school boards who have



                 the support of the parents and the faculty



                 members in those areas.



                            And it's shown in the educational



                 achievement of the students in those three



                 districts.  Those three districts -



                 District 20, District 21, and District 22 in



                 Brooklyn -- have among the highest math and



                 reading scores not only in the county of Kings



                 but in the entire city of New York.



                            That being said, and that being the



                 case in my area, it is my concern and it is my



                 role, as the representative here in the Senate



                 on behalf of those school boards, to be



                 certain that any kind of change in governance



                 would not affect the functioning of those



                 school boards.  It would make no sense for us



                 or for me to support a plan by which the



                 control and the functioning of school boards



                 is removed from those districts and placed



                 either with the chancellor at 110 Livingston



                 Street, or ultimately placed in Manhattan with



                 the mayor.



                            Now, mayoral control is something



                 that I am certainly not against.  It's











                                                        4028







                 something that I am open to.  But to take



                 control from the community school boards at



                 this level in those districts and lump them in



                 with those districts that are not working well



                 I think is a mistake.



                            Obviously, if I represented areas



                 in this city where the school boards are not



                 working well, areas where the school boards



                 are always infighting, where educational



                 policy is not the primary issue that they talk



                 about, then, sure, I would stand up here and



                 say it's time to do something with the school



                 boards.



                            But I don't represent those areas.



                 I represent areas where the school boards are



                 active and they are models for the rest of the



                 City of New York, particularly District 20 in



                 Bay Ridge.



                            So for those boards to face the



                 possibility of the control of the local



                 schools now being taken from those school



                 boards and being handed here either to the



                 chancellor, at 110 Livingston Street, or



                 ultimately to the mayor, in Manhattan, would



                 not be a good thing for the schools or the











                                                        4029







                 children or the people of my district.



                            And I understand, I understand my

                 colleagues who talk about the dysfunctional



                 system that may be present in their areas.  So



                 maybe I think we have too broad of a brush



                 here, and legislation may be crafted whereby



                 the chancellor may or the mayor may take



                 control of certain schools in certain school



                 districts that underperform on a certain



                 level, but allow those school districts and



                 those community school boards that are



                 functioning and are doing the job and are



                 serving the students, are serving the school



                 community, to continue to act in their



                 interest, in their own best interest, and not



                 take that power away from them.



                            That is my concern.  And my concern



                 in this bill is I'm afraid that this bill is a



                 precursor to the elimination of community



                 school boards across the city.  It requires



                 the Legislature to conduct public hearings on



                 proposals to replace community school boards.



                 That is something that concerns me because of



                 the areas that I represent.  It concerns me



                 that this is a precursor to that elimination











                                                        4030







                 of the school boards.



                            And certainly I'm pleased that I'm



                 here to talk about the good community school



                 boards -



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Excuse me,



                 Senator.  Senator Gentile, Senator Padavan has



                 been standing, and I must ask him, why do you



                 rise?



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator



                 Gentile, would you yield to a question?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Sure.  Yes, I



                 will yield.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,



                 Senator Padavan.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    I preface my



                 question by telling you that I have two school



                 boards that are also, by virtue of reading and



                 math scores, the best in the city if not, on



                 the best relative comparison, any school



                 district in the state.



                            As I understand your comment,



                 you're saying don't throw out the baby with



                 the bathwater; right?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Exactly.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    However, I











                                                        4031







                 would ask you the simple question -- in



                 reading the bill, you see that we have



                 maintained community school boards.  What we



                 changed was the method by which they could



                 recommend rather than mandate a selection



                 process for superintendents.



                            Currently they submit five names,



                 the chancellor accepts one or rejects the



                 list.  He can keep doing that.  Under this



                 proposal, they can recommend, as they probably



                 do in your area, a good principal to be



                 superintendent.  But the ultimate decision is



                 the chancellor's.



                            Do you have a problem with that



                 process?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Senator, I have



                 a problem with the possibility that having -



                 taking the process by which our current



                 superintendent in the one district that I



                 spoke of in particular, District 20, should he



                 have been subject to this new process, that



                 the chancellor may not have chosen him because



                 he came from within the district.  And



                 certainly -



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Madam











                                                        4032







                 President, will the Senator yield?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Let me finish



                 my answer, Senator.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Will the



                 Senator yield?



                            I'm sorry, I thought you had.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Let me finish



                 my answer.



                            So therefore, Senator, my concern



                 is that this person, who is a great visionary



                 and a great educational leader, might be



                 buried because the chancellor's level would



                 not see the possibilities that the local



                 school board and the parents saw in this



                 person to make him the superintendent.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Again, Senator,



                 we have a parallel situation.  District 26,



                 that superintendent came about just as you



                 described.  Different part of the city,



                 obviously.  But the school board recommended



                 that person to be a superintendent, as they



                 did there and they did in 26 and many other



                 districts.  And the chancellor, whoever he was



                 at that time -- I think it was Chancellor



                 Crew -- appointed them.











                                                        4033







                            Under the current proposal in this



                 bill, could not that same result have been



                 achieved vis-a-vis a recommendation and an



                 acceptance by the chancellor?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    There is a



                 possibility of that, yes.  Yes, Senator, there



                 is a possibility.



                            But there's also a possibility of



                 the chancellor appointing his or her own



                 person in the position of community



                 superintendent without the input of the



                 community school -



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Keep in mind



                 with regard to the school districts today, he



                 can keep rejecting that list.  We have one



                 school district Senator Smith and I share



                 where that's been going on for years and they



                 don't have a permanent superintendent.



                            So at least this eliminates that



                 possibility.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Well, it



                 eliminates the possibility to the detriment -



                 it could be to the detriment of the community



                 school board.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Okay.  I











                                                        4034







                 appreciate your answer.  But do you yield to



                 another question?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Are you aware



                 of the fact that the Speaker of the Assembly



                 is demanding, although they haven't put a bill



                 together, that we eliminate school boards in



                 law, to expire on June 3rd of next year when



                 their term is up?  Are you aware of that?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    I can't speak



                 for the Speaker of the Assembly.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    No, I said are



                 you aware of it.  I didn't want you to speak



                 on -



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    And what his



                 plans are, I will see when a bill comes forth



                 in the Assembly.  I have to see what -



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    But you read



                 what -



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Excuse me.  Let



                 me finish my answer.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    -- I read.  Did



                 you hear him say that?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    But, Senator,



                 let me finish my answer.











                                                        4035







                            My point is that I want to stand up



                 and speak for my school boards that I



                 represent that work well.  That needs to be



                 said, that needs to be put on the record, and



                 I think that needs to be part of the



                 discussion.  And that's why I'm saying it



                 here.



                            What the Assembly ultimately does



                 in their bill, what the Speaker ultimately



                 says doesn't necessarily mean that I will



                 agree with.  I think we have to say something



                 about the school boards that work.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Madam



                 President, would the Senator yield?



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes.  Yes.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    We agree,



                 Senator.  But I just thought you should be



                 aware, if you were not already, that we're



                 fighting against their stated position with



                 this bill.  We're opposing that notion.  And



                 you should support it if for no other reason.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Senator -



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Now, one more



                 question.  Now, how would you, citywide -



                 citywide -- keeping in mind, as you said, and











                                                        4036







                 I agree, there are a number of very good



                 school districts.  But there also are a number



                 which are dysfunctional.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Granted.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    How -- we can't



                 have two governances.  We can't have two



                 cities.  Unless you do what Senator Marchi



                 recommended, and we passed in the Senate back



                 in '96:  have borough boards.  We're not going



                 to do that.  The Assembly would never agree to



                 it.  They said so then; they would say so now.



                            But without doing something like



                 that, how would you come up with a system of



                 governance in the City of New York that



                 allowed the chancellor to deal with districts



                 that are not working well and not make the



                 changes we have made?  Which frankly do not



                 hurt those districts that are doing well,



                 because they'll continue to do well.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Senator, I



                 believe transferring control from the local



                 school board to either the chancellor or the



                 mayor will hurt control of the local schools,



                 because it has worked well because we



                 understand the needs of those local schools.











                                                        4037







                            I am in favor and I have worked



                 with Senator Marchi over the last several



                 years in advancing the idea of the borough



                 boards.  And I think it's a good idea for



                 Staten Island, I think it's a good idea for



                 Brooklyn, and I would recommend it to you,



                 Senator, for the county of Queens also.  But



                 certainly that is one way we can try to



                 address, on a smaller scale, the issue of



                 governance.



                            Now, the other way would be to



                 formulate some system whereby the chancellor o



                 the mayor, through the mayor, would have some



                 control over those districts and over those



                 schools that are dysfunctional.



                            I'm saying -- and you need to hear



                 this, too -- that I'm not against change.  I'm



                 not against some type of more direct control.



                 My concern is that let's not affect those



                 school districts and those community school



                 boards that have shown a record of



                 achievement.  And that's what we need to hear



                 today as part of this debate.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Gentile.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    So I will -











                                                        4038







                 getting back, in closing, Madam President, let



                 me just finish off by saying that Senator



                 Padavan is right.  I am concerned that in the



                 rush to change our governance system in the



                 City of New York schools that we are throwing



                 the baby out with the bathwater.



                            And I think what we need to do is



                 slow down a little bit and take a look, a more



                 comprehensive look, and not hurt those



                 districts by which this system, the current



                 system of community school boards and



                 community control has worked.



                            I believe that this bill, because



                 it's silent in many ways, may be the



                 precursor.  All it indicates is that there



                 should be hearings concerning the abolition of



                 the local community school boards.  I think



                 that would be a detriment to my districts,



                 District 21, District 20, and District 22.



                            So I'm not against change, but I



                 have to be against this bill because of the



                 concern I have for the good community school



                 boards in my district.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson.











                                                        4039







                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Madam President.  On the bill.  Just let



                 me just make this one comment as a precursor,



                 Madam President.



                            It is as important for each of us



                 to be in this chamber to speak on the bill as



                 it is for us to hear the discussion that is



                 exchanged with colleagues.  And so it is very



                 concerting to have had to leave for two



                 committee meetings in the middle of what I



                 think, next to our budget bill, is the most



                 important bill we pass this year.



                            And it disallowed me from hearing



                 the exchange of ideas on this bill.  So I will



                 probably be redundant, but that has never



                 stopped me.



                            My concern about this bill, and I



                 need to just address it in four quick points,



                 is the issue of vouchers, it allows for



                 privatization of schools, there is no



                 maintenance of effort, and it diminishes and



                 almost at some point will probably extinguish



                 the role of parental and community



                 participation.



                            Having said those four points -











                                                        4040







                 and I'm sure that everyone else has already



                 spoken very eloquently on all of them -- I



                 would still like to reiterate.  And I'd like



                 to piggyback on a comment that I heard my



                 colleague Senator Hevesi make as I was leaving



                 the chambers.



                            And that is to the effect that when



                 monies are allocated for education, there is



                 the assumption that those allocations are made



                 predicated on what has been described as need.



                 And so with a maintenance of effort, the



                 assumption is that -



                            THE PRESIDENT:    If the members



                 will please take their conversations out of



                 the chambers.



                            Excuse me, Senator.  You may



                 proceed now.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Madam President.



                            We have all very eloquently talked



                 about and we certainly have been lobbied over



                 the last several months by teachers and



                 organizations representing teachers and



                 administrators.  And everyone has said that we



                 need more money, we need more money to pay for











                                                        4041







                 education, through our teachers, through our



                 state aid, that there's a problem with the



                 formula, that our schools are in serious



                 disrepair, that our classrooms are



                 overcrowded, and a variety of things.  So all



                 of these are issues that have driven us to put



                 more money into the school system.



                            But I have a major concern when any



                 of us stand and talk about the fact that money



                 is to be earmarked based upon a need that has



                 been identified, but it is allowable for that



                 money to actually be, in a sense, commingled



                 with other funds in the city for such things



                 as street repairs, as much as they need



                 them -- certainly in the Bronx, with the



                 potholes, we could cook in the depth of the



                 holes that we have there, and disrepair of our



                 streets.



                            But that's not where I as a



                 taxpayer, who believes that my tax dollars are



                 going to support and advance the education of



                 our children, to see that money diverted.  And



                 if in the event that we have a -- I don't want



                 to leave with the assumption that anyone, no



                 matter how good a manager, is going to make











                                                        4042







                 sure that that money does not go anywhere



                 other than where it should go.



                            But I would like to see this



                 legislative initiative direct city dollars,



                 state aid, only to go for the education of our



                 children.  Because everyone has articulated



                 what the severe need is.  And based upon that



                 need, this money should never go anywhere but



                 except where it's been prescribed to go.



                            Secondly, the issue of



                 privatization of schools and certainly of



                 vouchers.  Vouchers disallow -- again, when we



                 talk about where money should go, every time



                 we allow for vouchers, that is a depletion of



                 an overall formula of where those dollars



                 should go.  And a percentage of each of those



                 dollars goes to pay for teachers and



                 administrative costs.



                            So when a block of money is taken



                 from the school system, overall we diminish



                 the ability of our classrooms to be totally



                 manned and to -- manned or personned -- and it



                 disallows us from having in the classroom the



                 formula of teacher to student that is going to



                 advance the education that we all say we want











                                                        4043







                 our children to have.



                            We have heard many of our



                 colleagues talk about the success and in



                 others the failure of school boards to work in



                 their district.  In the districts that I



                 represent, I have a combination of both.  But



                 I certainly have some school districts where



                 there is excellent participation and



                 involvement on the parts of parents and the



                 community as well.  And that involvement



                 includes extra programs -- Building Bridges is



                 one that parents have developed, along with



                 the teachers in the district, to provide for



                 training and education of parents that allows



                 them to be able to be helpful to their own



                 children within the school district.  Very



                 successful programs.



                            But I would not advocate that we



                 would maintain school districts if the



                 findings are, and they seem to be, that there



                 is a greater detriment to allowing our school



                 boards to make the determination about how



                 monies are going to be spent in individual



                 communities.



                            But what I would not like to see is











                                                        4044







                 us completely abolish the participation.



                 There's nothing in this 13-member board that



                 speaks to community people.  And I know that



                 people will jump and up and say, well, you



                 know, the people that would be appointed will



                 come from the community.  Not necessarily so.



                 Because it doesn't say where the people have



                 to come from in certain ones of the



                 appointments.  The only ones that I get the



                 sense that would be regulated would be those



                 that come out from the borough presidencies.



                            So my concern is that somewhere in



                 here parents and communities need to continue



                 to have a level of involvement in what



                 happens.  Not necessarily in how the dollars



                 are spent from a dollar and cents perspective,



                 but at least have input into the planning and



                 the concept of where and how monies are spent



                 and curriculum designs that are going to be



                 used to teach their children.



                            And I think I've covered the four



                 issues very, very clearly as I understand



                 them.  But I certainly know that the whole



                 issue of privatization of schools, allowing



                 schools to be privatized -- we have a formula











                                                        4045







                 now that many people still don't agree with.



                 And to give the chancellor the ability to



                 privatize other schools within our public



                 school system when we have not really talked



                 about what the long-range success of



                 privatization or charter schools is on the



                 education of all children, I am not prepared



                 to do that.



                            So I will be voting no on this



                 bill.  Thank you.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, I



                 believe, is next, and then Senator



                 Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam



                 President.



                            A lot of important points have been



                 raised here and reraised.  And I'm just going



                 to again repeat the most crucial issues, I



                 believe.  That is the issue of maintenance of



                 effort.  Funding is perhaps the biggest issue



                 that we debate here in the Legislature at



                 budget time.  And so for this legislation not



                 to address that is just on the face of it



                 absurd, and makes this legislation dead on



                 arrival to passage in the Legislature.











                                                        4046







                            The idea that the Majority and I



                 guess Mayor Bloomberg want to sneak vouchers



                 in in this way is totally unacceptable.  The



                 same having to do with the treatment of



                 charter schools.  One need only look at what



                 happened with the Edison Schools fiasco when



                 parents were asked how they felt about that in



                 Upper Manhattan.  Also, Edison Schools has



                 been shown to be a very, very problematic



                 private corporation of which there is no



                 evidence that students do better as a result



                 of the Edison way of educating as compared to



                 what could be very good in public education.



                            The most important issue having to



                 do with what happens in the schools is



                 instruction.  Instruction is it.  I am



                 fortunate enough to represent a large part of



                 a district in Manhattan, District 2, where



                 when the emphasis has been placed on



                 instruction, grades and achievement improved



                 dramatically.  Reading scores, math scores.



                 Entrance into good high schools, entrance into



                 good colleges.



                            I know that not every part of New



                 York City has that.  But what it proves is











                                                        4047







                 that if there is political will, every school



                 can succeed.  But it takes political will.



                 Every mayor has said "I need control of the



                 schools," but none of them have actually ever



                 tried to exert the kind of political will to



                 make the schools reform.



                            Political will is what is going to



                 make our schools perform.  Emphasis on



                 instruction and emphasis on professional



                 development of those involved in instruction,



                 teamwork, parental involvement -- those are



                 the things that are going to improve our



                 schools.



                            None of the mayors have ever made



                 it their absolute primary focus to improve



                 education.  And now for the idea -- well, the



                 idea that a mayor could now choose someone who



                 could do that job who doesn't have experience



                 in education, who doesn't have experience in



                 instruction, in what works, is just



                 wrong-headed.



                            I think that we have it all wrong.



                 What we need is the head of the schools should



                 be someone who knows about instruction, and



                 then there should be a chief operating











                                                        4048







                 officer.  If the mayors say they want control,



                 doesn't that make them the chief operating



                 officer?



                            I don't understand why there's no



                 emphasis on instruction, resources,



                 professional development, and parental



                 involvement.  None of that is in this bill.



                            Also, for the last mayor, you'd



                 have to be not paying any attention at all to



                 think that he actually didn't have control of



                 what happened on the Board of Education.  He



                 was running the show.  He had the will to run



                 the show.  I disagree with how it is that he



                 did that.  But he actually had the will to try



                 to get in there and run the show -- I don't



                 think to good ends, but he was in charge of



                 what happened there.  He had the votes.  And I



                 don't think he did a very good job.  And I



                 don't think he had the focus, and I don't



                 think he had the will to make New York City's



                 public educational system work.



                            Now, if we're going to hand over



                 control that kind of control to the mayor and



                 if we're going to tell the mayor that he



                 should put in some kind of a businessperson











                                                        4049



                 instead of someone who is knowledgeable about



                 instruction, then maybe we should make the



                 criteria for who the mayor is someone who has



                 experience in education.  If they're going to



                 be running the show that way and they're going



                 to be choosing the chief operating officer to



                 head up the schools, then maybe they should be



                 the person who knows about instruction.



                            But somewhere up there, and in a



                 very independent way, you have to have someone



                 who focuses on instruction, who focuses on



                 getting the resources exclusively, who focuses



                 on professional development, who focuses on



                 parental involvement.



                            And that is the reason that people



                 who I think know far more than, with all due



                 respect to the mayor, the mayor and some of my



                 colleagues in the Majority, that's why there



                 has always been in public education a desire



                 to keep it above the politics of one person



                 who doesn't know anything about instruction.



                            So this bill, you've heard in so



                 many different ways on the merits and the



                 details, is flawed.  But just on the basic



                 philosophy of how it is that public education







                                                        4050







                 needs to be accomplished in the city of



                 New York, this bill is a bad bill.



                            Thank you, Madam President.



                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator



                 Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,



                 Madam President.



                            I have a few comments to add to all



                 that has gone before.  Most fundamentally,



                 there's been a lot of discussion of the lack



                 of accountability for New York's public



                 schools, the confusion over who's in charge.



                            Well, in fact, I don't think there



                 is any confusion on that issue.  The



                 Constitution of the State of New York says the



                 Legislature shall provide for a system of



                 common schools.  It does not even say the



                 state government.  It says "the Legislature."



                            And we complain about all of these



                 problems with the Board of Education and the



                 school boards.  Those weren't given to us by



                 the federal government.  Those were not



                 created by God.  They were created by the



                 New York State Legislature.



                            And we have to finally face up to











                                                        4051







                 the fact, I think, in light of Justice



                 DeGrasse's opinion in the Campaign for Fiscal



                 Equity case, that we, the New York State



                 Legislature, are responsible.  This is -- it's



                 up to us.  The Constitution is not vague on



                 this issue.



                            So I think we have to take



                 responsibility for the fact that the problems



                 in New York City's school system are due to



                 our refusal to take legislative action over



                 the last twenty years to fix those problems.



                 We are empowered to do so.  We are mandated by



                 the Constitution to do so.  And it is time



                 that we stop passing one-house bills and enact



                 laws.



                            Now, I realize that sometimes you



                 can get away with telling your constituents:



                 Oh, we passed a bill, but the Assembly



                 wouldn't pass our bill.  This year, we have to



                 enact some laws to make people's lives better



                 in our districts.  I respectfully submit that



                 the voters will not be satisfied with a



                 one-house bill, which this clearly is.  It



                 doesn't include the maintenance of effort



                 provision that's central to the Assembly, and











                                                        4052







                 it does include this privatization provision



                 that the Assembly will clearly reject.  This



                 is a one-house bill.



                            And it's time -- it's June 4th -



                 time to finish with one-house bills and pass



                 some laws.  We have to deal with the Women's



                 Health and Wellness Act.  It's not good enough



                 to go home and tell our constituents we tried.



                 We have to raise the minimum wage, with



                 indexing, or we will pay the price at the



                 polls.  We have to reform the Rockefeller Drug



                 Laws.



                            And, finally, it is absolutely



                 clear that we have to do something about



                 school governance.  And it would be



                 inexcusable and everyone who runs against an



                 incumbent senator in this body should make a



                 big issue of the fact that we do not address



                 school governance if we close this session



                 without a law.



                            One-house bills on any of these



                 issues are no longer acceptable.  It's time



                 for us to step up and take responsibility



                 given to us by the Constitution.  We can fix



                 the school governance system in the City of











                                                        4053







                 New York.  We have to do it through a



                 two-house bill signed by the Governor.  This



                 does not advance the process.



                            I am voting no in the hopes that we



                 will have a bill that actually can become a



                 law before this session finishes.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator.



                            The next speaker is Senator



                 Onorato -- Senator Montgomery.  Senator



                 Montgomery, I'm sorry, Senator.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I'll yield



                 to Senator Onorato.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 You're the next one on the list, Senator.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    She wanted to



                 close.  She wants to close.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Okay.  Senator Onorato.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President,



                 just briefly on the bill.



                            Most of the comments have been made



                 by my colleagues.  I want to emphasize a



                 little bit -- I want to say a little bit but











                                                        4054







                 mean a whole lot.  And it deals with the



                 maintenance of effort.



                            We've been hearing that constantly



                 throughout our debate here, but nobody has



                 actually spelled out just exactly what the



                 maintenance of effort is.  There's no formula



                 around.  We've had a lawsuit in the State of



                 New York, which was won by private citizens



                 stating that the state was shortchanging the



                 City of New York.  But I think they missed the



                 boat, because they didn't include the City of



                 New York in that lawsuit.  Because no matter



                 what we gave the City of New York, it wasn't



                 enough.  And the City of New York relinquished



                 its own power of adding their own funds to



                 what we added to them.



                            I think we have got to come up with



                 the formula.  We have the means and the



                 wherewithal to pass the legislation and spell



                 out exactly what it is.  I've been in this



                 legislative body almost 20 years, and for that



                 time we've increased aid to education every



                 single year.  It was never, ever matched in



                 the City of New York by our maintenance of



                 effort.











                                                        4055







                            The rest of the state has their own



                 means of funding the education.  The people of



                 the City of New York do not have a direct say



                 in raising the funds for education.  We pay



                 our income taxes and the City Council and the



                 mayor decide where that money is going.



                            I think it's high time we stepped



                 in.  We relinquished our power over 25 years



                 ago on regulating the Board of Education.  Now



                 it's time to take it back and let them know



                 exactly what it is that we want done with the



                 money that we are providing for them.



                            And I ask you to vote no on this



                 bill until that particular problem is



                 addressed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Montgomery, to close for the Minority.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank



                 you, Mr. President.



                            I hope that I will not repeat



                 absolutely everything that has ever been said



                 about this legislation.  But I would like to



                 ask one question of Senator Velella, if he



                 would yield, Mr. President.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    I yield.











                                                        4056







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Velella yields.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right,



                 thank you.  Senator Velella, I'm just trying



                 to figure out how we got the bill on our desk



                 today.  Did this come through committee, or



                 was this a special one of those special



                 provisions for -



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Was it Rules?



                 Rules.  It came through the Rules Committee.



                 There was a Rules Committee a little bit



                 earlier.  I believe you're on Rules, aren't



                 you?



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    No, I'm not.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Oh, I'm sorry.



                 It was reported from Rules yesterday.



                            I might also point out, Senator,



                 that some comment was made a little bit



                 earlier in the debate about the fact that we



                 only had one day to look at this bill and



                 examine it.  But it's been in print since May



                 21st.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right,



                 thank you.



                            Mr. President, can I ask another











                                                        4057







                 question of Senator Velella, if he will



                 continue to yield?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator, will you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Certainly,



                 Senator.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Senator, did



                 we have prior to this, the legislation coming



                 out -- or at least since it's been out, have



                 you had an opportunity to hold any hearings



                 with any groups at all regarding the



                 provisions of this legislation?



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Senator -



                 Senator, this is the result -- as I started



                 out when I outlined the bill, this is the



                 result of a long pattern of trying to address



                 the educational needs of the City of New York.



                            Senator Padavan put together a



                 group under his direction who held hearings,



                 who had the Mayor come, who has held numerous



                 hearings investigating all of the



                 possibilities.



                            And you know what?  We don't have











                                                        4058







                 all the answers in this bill.  So what we did



                 was postpone some of the things that we



                 couldn't solve, like do we keep the school



                 boards or don't we.  There's a mixture of



                 opinion on that.  So we've put that off for



                 about a year, and we're going to hold further



                 hearings to decide what should be done about



                 school boards.  So that you will have an



                 opportunity, I will have an opportunity to



                 decide whether we should do away with them,



                 keep them, or change their powers.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    All right.



                 Thank you, Senator Velella, for that.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    You're welcome.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Let me say,



                 Mr. President, that the -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Montgomery, are you on the bill?



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    On the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Montgomery, on the bill.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you.



                            The things that the bill does are



                 troubling.  That's one aspect of the problem



                 with this legislation.  But the other, even











                                                        4059







                 more unsettling aspect of our debate today is



                 that none of it, as I can see, based on this



                 legislation or anything that we've said,



                 relates at all in any way to improving the



                 quality of education in the City of New York.



                 So that is the saddest comment, I think, of



                 all.



                            Now, let me just point out a couple



                 of things.  One, we are eliminating the Board



                 of Ed as an independent voice that speaks



                 solely on behalf of the children and



                 education.  So we now have the mayor, who



                 essentially controls every single decision



                 that will be made as it relates to education



                 and the system that we will be left with.



                            The reason that I say that is



                 because in rearranging -- reestablishing



                 this -- whatever we're calling the panel, the



                 mayor has seven members that he appoints, plus



                 he appoints the chancellor, and the rest are



                 appointed by the borough presidents.  It seems



                 to me that every decision, therefore, since it



                 requires a majority vote -- the mayor clearly



                 has the majority, the mayor controls who is



                 appointed to any position in the board -











                                                        4060







                 essentially, the mayor will always, in every



                 instance, control every decision.



                            So it really doesn't matter if we



                 can call the borough president's member or we



                 can try and reach out to any person in that



                 system.  It will depend on whether or not the



                 mayor allows any communication to flow from



                 top to bottom.  So that's a problem,



                 obviously.



                            Obviously, we -- some -- one of our



                 members talked about, oh, the mayor controls



                 the fire department and the police department



                 and all of these other departments.  And yes,



                 he does.  And yes, he does say to each



                 commissioner "You must reduce your budget by X



                 number of dollars."  And that commissioner



                 works for the mayor, is required to respond



                 based on the mayor's wishes.



                            We're now setting up a situation



                 where the exact same process is in place for



                 educational funding.  And so we have education



                 funding going into the city, being controlled



                 by the mayor, with no accountability to those



                 places -- i.e., state, the state's funding,



                 the federal funding, even the city's own











                                                        4061







                 funding.



                            There is no transparency, there is



                 no accountability to those funds based on the



                 fact that they are intended solely for



                 education.  They do not have to be spent that



                 way, and they will not be spent that way.



                            And the Mayor has -- in his



                 actions, certainly -- essentially said:  I do



                 not intend to spend education dollars solely



                 for the benefit of those schools.  And I think



                 it's very clear.



                            So that's what we're doing.  We're



                 giving up any small amount of accountability



                 that we may have.  And I say it's very small.



                            The second thing I just want to



                 make sure that everybody understands very



                 clearly, in Section 13, on page 13, under



                 Section 13 on page 13, the following wording



                 is in this bill underlined.  It is definitely



                 to be established.  "The following may be



                 entered into by the chancellor only with



                 approval of the panel" -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Senator -- just











                                                        4062







                 tell me the lines she's reading from on page



                 13.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator?



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I'm reading



                 on Page 13, line 3.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Thank you.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    "The



                 following may be entered into by the



                 chancellor with the approval of the panel,



                 decided by majority vote" -- which we have



                 already established that the mayor controls -



                 "and after the panel shall conduct hearings:



                 Any contract designed to lead to private



                 operation of an entire public school, any



                 contract for assistance in converting a public



                 school to a charter school that will be



                 operated by a private school, private



                 contractor, or any contract or other



                 arrangement offering to reimburse parents by



                 vouchers."  Or anything else that you call



                 vouchers.



                            So that this bill essentially



                 establishes a privatization process for public



                 education in New York City.  And obviously











                                                        4063







                 that is totally and completely unacceptable.



                            I also would like to point out that



                 in this bill on page 24, line 3, it says this



                 sentence, this portion, this section is



                 eliminated:  "No person who is related within



                 the third degree of consanguinity or affinity



                 to the chancellor or to any member of the city



                 board or to any community superintendent or to



                 any member of a community board shall commence



                 employment with the city or community district



                 of which such relative is a member."



                            It reopens, reopens, reinstates



                 nepotism, that which we all know was the most



                 destructive aspect of the school systems from



                 the community school board on up.  So I cannot



                 imagine why that would be happening at this



                 point in time.



                            To make this legislation the



                 centerpiece of our legislative initiatives, in



                 light of the fact that we know that we are



                 going to be losing hundreds of teachers,



                 hundreds of superintendents -- we have schools



                 with no science labs, schools that are



                 dilapidated.  We have teachers who are



                 teaching without certification or out of











                                                        4064







                 certification.  We have so many children who



                 speak languages that no one in that system



                 speaks.  There are so many issues that should



                 be central to our discussion on this.



                            And yet we come with a piece of



                 legislation, with a bill that is, first of



                 all, presented without due time to deliberate



                 on the merits and demerits of different parts



                 of the bill.  Though we may agree with some,



                 we certainly can't agree with many of them.



                 And we should have an opportunity to discuss



                 this.  It is a major policy issue for millions



                 of children in the next few years, and



                 possibly decades.



                            So I, Mr. President, would hope



                 that we could be statesmen and -women enough



                 and have enough integrity as legislators and



                 have enough commitment to the people that we



                 serve, especially the children, to be more



                 deliberative and to be more accountable for



                 what we do here as it relates to the education



                 of our children.



                            And lastly, Mr. President, what we



                 really need, what would improve the



                 accountability, I believe, to us, to the











                                                        4065







                 children, to the citizens of New York City -



                 and, by the way, the Mayor hasn't listened to



                 the citizens of New York City, because the



                 citizens do not want this.  This is not their



                 major issue.  That has been proven in poll



                 after poll.  And people have written to me and



                 written to all of us and they marched on City



                 Hall and they have said, in a unified voice,



                 this is not what is the most important thing.



                 School governance and the mayoral takeover is



                 not going to improve education.



                            The New York State School Boards



                 Association, that's the first thing that they



                 said.  The Association of the Big Five.  All



                 of the groups that really care and understand



                 what it is we need to do for children, none of



                 them talk about school governance as being a



                 major issue.  So this is shameful.



                            But the other thing that I think we



                 need to do, and hopefully we will talk about



                 and come to an agreement on, is how do we



                 create transparency so that New York City, the



                 Mayor and the City Council don't steal the



                 money that we send.  We cannot hope to improve



                 the system because the money is never really











                                                        4066







                 used for its purpose.  Before it gets to the



                 classroom, it is taken by the New York City



                 municipal interest.  And obviously that's what



                 any mayor is going to do.



                            We should be talking about creating



                 a system, a lockbox system, a system of some



                 sort where all of the funds that go into the



                 city, as they do in every other district



                 besides the Big Five -- all of the other



                 school districts are independent of any mayor

                 and any of the local municipal politics that



                 we all know is part of New York City's



                 government.



                            Let's create a system of funding



                 that is -- that provides accountability, that



                 is clear and transparent, that we know every



                 single dollar that comes from the state, from



                 the city, and from the federal government for



                 education in fact goes for that purpose.



                            That would, I think, improve this



                 system as it relates to the funding.  And



                 maybe we could get more money into the system



                 and begin to address some of the real needs



                 that we have, that we know are the case, that



                 we know will improve education in our city.











                                                        4067







                            So, Mr. President, I'm certainly



                 voting no on this.  This is bad policy.  It is



                 not put together with all deliberation, with



                 the input of the broadest possible citizenry.



                 Most people -- how many people have seen this



                 47-page document?  And certainly many of us



                 have not had an opportunity to deliberate and



                 to have input.  So I'm certainly voting no.



                            And I hope that we can come



                 together with Senator Velella -- I know he is



                 totally committed.  He has been a school board



                 member, so you know the issues from firsthand.



                 I've been a school board member.  I know.  I'm



                 a parent now; I know some of the other side of



                 it.



                            So let's all come together and put



                 all of our expertise and experience together,



                 put aside our politics, and try to do



                 something that makes sense and that is right



                 and correct for the children of New York City.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator Montgomery.



                            Senator Velella, to close for the



                 Majority.











                                                        4068







                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Mr. President,



                 I'm going to be very brief in closing.  We



                 have already, as a courtesy to Senator



                 Montgomery, exceeded the two-hour time limit



                 in debate by 15 minutes.  So I'm not going to



                 stand here and try to rediscuss every issue



                 that's been brought up.



                            I would only wish that we could get



                 a videocassette of this debate and produce it



                 to everyone who asks the question "Why don't



                 you get things done in Albany?"  We have had a



                 recitation of everything that's not in this



                 bill and very little debate about what is in



                 it.



                            I would rather light one candle to



                 help start to brighten up the system and give



                 some guidance and some leadership than to



                 stand here and point to everything that's not



                 in this particular bill.



                            There are problems.  There are a



                 lot of things that were omitted.  There are a



                 lot of things that are taken care of.  I was



                 going to quote, in closing, a great Democratic



                 president who talked about the buck stopping



                 somewhere.  But I would rather quote a good











                                                        4069







                 Democratic senator, Senator Hevesi, who said



                 it's time for somebody to be held accountable



                 for the dollars that are being sent to the



                 City of New York, to the educational system



                 that is not producing what we pay for.



                            We need to have accountability.



                 Can every mayor across the board, Republicans,



                 Democrats and in-betweens, can they all be



                 wrong?  Can they all be, the mayors that are



                 saying the system isn't working because



                 nobody's accountable?



                            One of your colleagues on that side



                 said the problem is everybody's pointing past



                 each other.  Absolutely true.



                            This stops the buck.  It lights a



                 candle.  It gets the job done.  And let's stop



                 nitpicking.  Let's get to work on solving the



                 problem.  I move the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    Any



                 other Senators wishing to be heard?



                            Seeing none, debate is closed.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 43.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:











                                                        4070







                 Call the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Party vote in



                 the negative.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Party vote in



                 the affirmative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Stavisky, you wish to explain your



                 vote?



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    To explain my



                 vote.



                            Mr. President, I generally see the



                 glass as being half full.  I'm an optimist.  I



                 don't think this bill accomplishes anything



                 close to what Senator Velella and most of us



                 would hope it would do.  I think it was Robert



                 Moses who said that he can get any system to



                 work.  And I happen to agree with him.  And he



                 was a Republican, not a Democrat.  But Robert



                 Moses said he can get any system to work.



                            I don't believe school governance



                 is really the problem.  I think the problem



                 can be resolved with smaller class sizes,



                 licensed teachers, parental involvement, and



                 so on.  That I think is the key.











                                                        4071







                            And I vote no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Announce the results, please.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 37.  Nays,



                 24.  Party vote with exception.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 bill is passed.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,



                 if we could return to reports of standing



                 committees, I believe there's a report of the



                 Finance Committee at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    We



                 will return to the reports of standing



                 committees.



                            The Secretary will read the report



                 of the Finance Committee.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford,



                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the



                 following nominations.



                            As a member of the State Board of



                 Real Property Services, Ifigenia T. Brown,



                 Esquire, of Ballston Spa.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Farley.











                                                        4072







                            Senator, excuse me one second,



                 please.



                            Can we please take conversations



                 out of the room.  We've got a lot of work to



                 do.  Give a little attention, please.



                            Senator.



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you very



                 much, Mr. President.



                            Let me just say the candidates that



                 are up in the gallery, they deserve a special



                 prize for patience, sitting up there.



                            And it is with regret that Senator



                 Bruno cannot be here to nominate Ifigenia



                 Brown, of Ballston Spa.  But as the senator



                 that shares Saratoga County with him -- and I



                 share a little piece of the village where



                 she -- as a matter of fact, the village is



                 split.  She's in the town of Milton, which is



                 Senator Bruno's district.



                            And Senator Bruno has said it's



                 with honor that he -- to nominate Ifigenia



                 Brown, a distinguished attorney.



                            Incidentally, she's been happily



                 married for 45 years -- she must have been



                 married as a child -- to her husband, Paul,











                                                        4073







                 who's an electrical engineer and a good



                 friend.



                            She's earned her bachelor's degree



                 from Syracuse University, attended Syracuse



                 Law School.  And she's a member of the



                 Saratoga County Bar and the New York State



                 Bar, and she's served as treasurer.



                            She has been involved in the



                 practice of law.  She was an acting police



                 justice in the village.  She's on the board of



                 the Charlton -- or was on the board of the



                 Charlton School, which is in my district.  And



                 she served so many years also as president of



                 the Zonta Club, and is a very distinguished



                 Saratoga County resident.



                            And it is with enthusiasm and honor



                 that I congratulate the Governor on this



                 appointment of Ifigenia Brown as a member of



                 the State Board of Real Property Services.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 motion is on the confirmation of Ifigenia T.



                 Brown as a member of the State Board of Real



                 Property Services.  All in favor signify by



                 saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")











                                                        4074







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  Ms. Brown is confirmed.



                            Congratulations.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    Ms.



                 Brown is joined today with her husband, Paul.



                 Congratulations again to both of you.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, Marietta S. Gailor,



                 of Gansevoort.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Farley.



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you.  It's



                 with enthusiasm that I nominate Marietta



                 Gailor, of Gansevoort, or Wilton, either one.



                 She is a reappointment, having served on the



                 Board of Parole since 1996, and appointed by



                 Governor Pataki.



                            Let me just say that Marietta is



                 somebody that has had a great deal of



                 experience with probation and parole since











                                                        4075







                 1970.  She's a person that has been eminently



                 qualified, in training and in education, for



                 this job.



                            She has served her state well.  And



                 that's the reason that the Governor has seen



                 fit to reappoint her.  She's a graduate of



                 Russell Sage College right here in Troy,



                 New York.  She is married and an outstanding



                 resident of Saratoga County, and somebody that



                 has truly been eminently qualified in this



                 because she has worked for a number of years



                 in this field and has served with distinction.



                            It is with enthusiasm that I urge



                 the nomination of Marietta Gailor to serve on



                 the Board of Parole for the State of New York.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 motioning is on the nomination of Marietta S.



                 Gailor to serve on the State Board of Parole.



                 All in favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 confirmation is affirmed.











                                                        4076







                            Congratulations, Ms. Gailor, and



                 much success.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senators, if you would, we've got people up



                 there who have been waiting for quite a while



                 to get confirmed.  If we could just go through



                 these.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I just



                 wanted to register my -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    I



                 know.  Well, they've been sitting up there for



                 hours, and their confirmation we have to go



                 through.  Just let us go through that and



                 we'll do the other business as well.  Thank



                 you.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, G. Kevin Ludlow,



                 Esquire, of Clayville.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Meier.











                                                        4077







                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  It's with great pleasure that I



                 move the confirmation of G. Kevin Ludlow, a



                 resident of Clayville, in my Senate district,



                 as a member of the State Board of Parole.



                            The Parole Board is an organization



                 that really does require a great deal of



                 balance in the way one looks at complicated



                 issues.  Parole Board members are charged with



                 both protecting society and with carefully



                 examining the records of persons who are in



                 the state correctional system to determine



                 their progress and indeed if it is warranted



                 to release them back into society.



                            It requires someone with experience



                 in many features of life.  It requires someone



                 with almost, indeed -- or with a judicial



                 temperament.  And Kevin Ludlow, I'm confident,



                 because I've known him for so long -- almost



                 25 years -- has these qualifications.



                            Kevin, like myself, has spent a



                 great deal of time as a small-town lawyer



                 engaging in general practice.  That is one of



                 the professions in this life where one gets to



                 see many aspects of life.  You're with people











                                                        4078







                 during the proud and happy moments of their



                 life, when they're closing their homes, when



                 they're adopting their children, when good



                 things are happening to them, and you're with



                 them through the bad times in their life.



                            And that's the kind of law that



                 Kevin Ludlow has practiced and where he's



                 gained the respect of people in his profession



                 and of people in his community.



                            And I might add that among his



                 broad experience as a practicing attorney has



                 been service to my two distinguished



                 predecessors in this body, to Senator William



                 R. Sears and to Senator James H. Donovan,



                 where he certainly learned the legislative



                 process here as well as the criminal justice



                 system.



                            As I say, he has a deep experience



                 in a lot of aspects of life.  And it's always



                 encouraging to know, when we deal with



                 appointees, that they have activities outside



                 of legal or political life.  And in addition



                 to his legal service and his service to his



                 political party, Kevin Ludlow readily gives of



                 his time and talents to community











                                                        4079







                 organizations, to his church, and to others



                 around him.



                            He is well-respected.  I am proud



                 to say that he is my friend.  I am confident



                 to say that he has the kind of judgment and



                 discernment that will serve him well as a



                 member of the Board of Parole.



                            And, Kevin, good luck to you, and I



                 am very proud to move your nomination.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Nozzolio.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            Mr. President and my colleagues, I



                 rise to compliment Senator Meier for his



                 assistance in making this nomination happen.



                 Senator Meier, as a member of the Crime



                 Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee, was



                 a key advisor to Governor Pataki in making



                 this selection.  And that I compliment both



                 Senator Meier and the Governor.



                            Many years ago -- it seems not so



                 long ago, but it was over twenty years that I



                 first met Kevin Ludlow, worked with him in the



                 Assembly and in the Legislature.  That he











                                                        4080







                 certainly deserves this.  And I want to



                 compliment Senator Meier again for moving this



                 nomination.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 motion is on the nomination of G. Kevin Ludlow



                 to serve on the State Board of Parole.  All in



                 favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it, and Mr. Ludlow is confirmed.



                            Congratulations, and we wish you



                 well.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, Vanessa A.



                 McCarthy, Esquire, of Albany.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Nozzolio.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.











                                                        4081







                            Mr. President and my colleagues, it



                 is with special pride and honor that I rise to



                 place in nomination -- for renomination to the



                 Parole Board Vanessa McCarthy.



                            That Commissioner McCarthy has been



                 exemplary of a great American success story.



                 As a young girl emigrating with her family



                 from Jamaica -- that's Jamaica the country,



                 not Jamaica, Queens -- coming from Jamaica



                 with her family to build a better life in



                 America.  A graduate of our own State



                 University of New York, the first college



                 graduate coming from her family.  Worked hard



                 through college and into law school.  Worked



                 with us in the Legislature, both in the Senate



                 and in the Assembly.



                            She is up for renomination, was



                 nominated and confirmed by this house in July



                 of 1996.  That she has served with great



                 distinction as a member of the Board of



                 Parole.



                            Also, utilizing her expertise and



                 knowledge of criminal law, Governor Pataki



                 appointed Commissioner McCarthy to be a member



                 of the Megan's Law Task Force.  That she has











                                                        4082







                 served with distinction on the Parole



                 Commission and certainly deserves



                 reappointment.



                            Accompanying all this professional



                 work, she is a working mother of two young



                 children.  She also has the cross of being a



                 golf widow; but nonetheless, she is bearing



                 that extremely well.



                            That, Mr. President, I move the



                 nomination, a nomination that we all should be



                 very proud of voting for.  Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator.



                            The motion is on the confirmation



                 of Vanessa A. McCarthy to serve on the State



                 Board of Parole.  All in favor signify by



                 saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    All



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  The nomination is confirmed.



                            Congratulations, Ms. McCarthy.











                                                        4083







                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Ms. McCarthy is here with her husband, Justin;



                 daughter, Meredith; and son, Justin the 3rd.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, Gino Michael Nitti,



                 Esquire, of Rochester.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Nozzolio.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,



                 before us is a new nomination to the Parole



                 Board, Gino Nitti, from Rochester, in Monroe



                 County.  From my own region, as I represent,



                 with Senator Alesi and Senator Maziarz and



                 Senator Dollinger, the Monroe County area.



                            That Governor Pataki reached out to



                 find someone who is on the front lines of



                 criminal justice in seeking Mr. Nitti to serve



                 in this capacity.



                            Mr. Nitti, Gino, has served as the



                 district attorney, assistant district



                 attorney, with great distinction for Monroe



                 County for many years, over a decade.  That he



                 is currently the chief prosecutor of the arson











                                                        4084







                 division, responsible for screening and



                 prosecuting all arson crimes in Monroe County.



                            He also has served for many years



                 as a major felony prosecutor, one who's



                 entrusted with the most significant crimes to



                 prosecute, and has done that with distinction.



                            He too is a graduate of the SUNY



                 University system, which we can be very proud



                 of, a graduate of the Albany Law School, and



                 one who has certainly deep roots in New York



                 State.  He's served with great distinction on



                 very important prosecutorial tasks and will be



                 an excellent component to the Parole Board.



                            With that, Mr. President, it is



                 with honor that I move his nomination.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator.



                            The motion is on the nomination of



                 Gino Michael Nitti to serve on the State Board



                 of Parole.  All in favor signify by saying



                 aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)











                                                        4085







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  The confirmation is approved.



                            Mr. Nitti is here with his wife,



                 Joelle, and his children, Giana and Louis; his



                 parents, Louis and Adele; and his in-laws,



                 Jean and John DiMartino.



                            Congratulations, Mr. Nitti.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the State Board of Parole, Edward R. Mevec,



                 Esquire, of Peekskill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Farley.



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            Senator Leibell is out of the



                 chamber at another meeting, legislative



                 meeting, and he asked me if I would move the



                 nomination of Edward Mevec, who is eminently



                 qualified for this job.



                            He's a new appointment and has a



                 significant legal background.  And I



                 compliment the Governor on this appointment.











                                                        4086







                 And Senator Leibell wishes him the best of



                 luck and wishes.



                            And with that, I'd like to move his



                 nomination.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator.



                            The motion is on the nomination of



                 Edward R. Mevec, to serve on the State Board



                 of Parole.  All in favor signify by saying



                 aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  The nomination is confirmed.



                            Mr. Mevec is joined by his wife,



                 Barbara Vines; his two sons, Benjamin and



                 Daniel; his mother, Margaret Mevec; and his



                 mother-in-law, Carolyn Vines.



                            Congratulations, Mr. Mevec.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of











                                                        4087







                 the State Board of Parole, Brion D. Travis, of



                 Garrison.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Farley.



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Again, Senator



                 Leibell is still out of the room, and he's



                 asked me to move the nomination of Brion



                 Travis, who is the big cheese in parole here.



                 He is the chairman of the New York State



                 Parole Board.



                            This is a reappointment.  He's



                 served with distinction and has done an



                 outstanding job.



                            And again, it is with enthusiasm



                 that Senator Leibell and myself move the



                 nomination of Brion Travis.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator.



                            Senator Nozzolio.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  Mr. President, I again rise to



                 speak on the confirmation, the nomination of



                 one of the members of the Parole Board.



                            As we have confirmed today



                 individual members, they are certainly with











                                                        4088







                 great notoriety and distinction each and every



                 one of them, but come together and serve as a



                 board to do extremely important work on the



                 front lines of the criminal justice system.



                            Earlier today I had a meeting with



                 Governor Pataki about some issues related to



                 crime and corrections.  And that the Governor



                 certainly has taken great strides over these



                 last eight years -- with the Legislature's



                 support, in most cases -- in fighting the war



                 on crime.  And in many cases we have seen



                 tremendous successes, particularly the area of



                 the reductions of violent crime.



                            Key to the success of the



                 legislation that we produce here is having



                 good people on the front lines in the police



                 work, in the prosecution work and, yes, in the



                 work relevant to parole.  Brion Travis, as



                 chairman of the Parole Board, has served in a



                 double capacity.  Certainly as a commissioner



                 himself, he's served with extreme distinction.



                            But he should be very proud of the



                 fact that he has put together, in conjunction



                 with Governor Pataki, a wonderful team working



                 at Parole, a team that is a dedicated team,











                                                        4089







                 one that works extremely hard, and one that



                 the chairman of the board, Brion Travis,



                 should take a special pride in.



                            I did not want his confirmation to



                 go by without making a special mention of his



                 efforts, that he has worked extremely closely



                 with key members of this house to fashion



                 legislation that will help and does help



                 reduce crime, establishes a zero tolerance for



                 violence in this state.



                            And that, Brion -- I can call you



                 Brion because I'm very proud to know you and



                 call you as a friend -- that you have done



                 great work as chairman of the Parole Board.



                 And it's a confirmation that each and every



                 member of this body should be very pleased in



                 confirming.



                            Thank you very, very much, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator Nozzolio.



                            The motion is on the nomination of



                 Brion D. Travis -



                            Senator Stafford, I'm sorry.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Mr. President,











                                                        4090







                 I'm going to stand here and I'm going to talk



                 a half hour about all seven nominees that



                 appeared this morning.  But on second thought,



                 I guess I better not do that.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Bless you, sir.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Thank you.



                 Thank you.



                            But I do want to say, once again,



                 all seven appearances, all seven appearances,



                 fine individuals -- some who were



                 reappointments, others initial appointments -



                 that I am sure will do a tremendous job in



                 their responsibility.



                            And I do have to say, as I've stood



                 here so many times, fortunately, that the



                 seven appearances that we had today in front



                 of the Senate Finance Committee certainly



                 augurs well for New York State.  And I commend



                 them all and certainly join in moving their



                 confirmation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator Stafford.



                            The motion is on the confirmation



                 of Brion D. Travis as the chairperson of the











                                                        4091







                 New York State Parole Board.  All in favor



                 signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    All



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  Mr. Travis is confirmed.



                            And we congratulate you, sir.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the New York State Financial Control Board,



                 Elizabeth Weir Factor, Esquire, of New York



                 City.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I rise in support of this



                 nomination and advance the confirmation for



                 Elizabeth Weir Factor.



                            Elizabeth is a noted attorney who



                 started at Phillips Academy in Andover, Maine,



                 where she graduated in June of 1986.  She went











                                                        4092







                 to Columbia University for her master's and



                 received her juris doctor's degree from Yale



                 Law School in 1994.



                            She currently serves as a tax



                 counsel and investment banker and advisor to



                 Fortune 500 and Fortune 100 companies on tax



                 and accounting base structures.



                            I believe that Ms. Factor will be a



                 true asset and a valuable asset to the



                 Financial Control Board of the state, and I



                 would thank the Governor for sending us such a



                 highly qualified nominee.



                            And therefore I vote yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Thank you, Senator Morahan.



                            The motion is on the nomination of



                 Elizabeth Weir Factor, Esquire, to serve on



                 the New York State Financial Control Board.



                 All in favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  The nomination is confirmed.











                                                        4093







                            And we wish her congratulations.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of



                 the Buffalo and Fort Erie Public Bridge



                 Authority-Peace Bridge, Paul J. Koessler, of



                 Buffalo.



                            As a member of the Niagara Frontier



                 Transportation Authority, Theodore Katra, of



                 Lackawanna.



                            As a banking member of the State



                 Banking Board, Clifford M. Miller, of Hurley.



                            As a public member of the State



                 Banking Board, Jeffrey Hwang, of New York



                 City.



                            As a member of the Small Business



                 Advisory Board, Kevin M. O'Bryan, of Troy, and



                 Ross M. Weale, of South Salem.



                            As a member of the Allegany State



                 Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation



                 Commission, Dalton J. Burgett, Esquire, of



                 Bemus Point.



                            As a member of the Veterans Affairs



                 Commission, Karl W. Kristoff, of



                 Williamsville.



                            As a member of the Board of











                                                        4094







                 Directors of the New York Convention Center



                 Operating Corporation, Joseph E. Spinnato, of



                 Muttontown.



                            As members of the Advisory Council



                 on Agriculture, Charles P. Bailey, Jr., of



                 Williamson; Philip Herrington, of Troy; and



                 Frances M. Moore, of Malone.



                            As members of the Advisory Council



                 on Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services,



                 James G. Cloonan, of Oswego, and Brian Dale



                 Ingraham, of Binghamton.



                            As a member of the Advisory Council



                 on the Commission on Quality of Care for the



                 Mentally Disabled, Elizabeth Wickerham, of



                 Saratoga Springs.



                            As a member of the Minority Health



                 Council, Jose A. Goris, M.D., of New York



                 City.



                            As a member of the Public Health



                 Council, Jose A. Goris, M.D., of New York



                 City.



                            As a member of the State Camp



                 Safety Advisory Council, Douglas W. Pierce, of



                 Roslyn.



                            As members of the State Hospital











                                                        4095







                 Review and Planning Council, Michael H.



                 Barnett, Esquire, of New York City, and J.



                 Patrick Sheehan, of Larchmont.



                            As a member of the State Fire



                 Prevention and Building Code Council, Robert



                 Hankin, of Poughkeepsie.



                            As a member of the Board of



                 Visitors of the Capital District Psychiatric



                 Center, Myrna Sanders, of Albany.



                            As a member of the Board of



                 Visitors of the New York State Home for



                 Veterans and their Dependents at St. Albans,



                 Elizabeth R. Carr, of Glen Oaks.



                            As a member of the Board of



                 Visitors of the Staten Island Developmental



                 Disabilities Services Office, Robert McCarren,



                 of Staten Island.



                            As a member of the Board of



                 Visitors of the Taconic Developmental



                 Disabilities Services Office, Joan E. Klink,



                 of Fishkill.



                            And as a member of the Board of



                 Visitors of the Western New York Children's



                 Psychiatric Center, Nancy Rogers, of Darien



                 Center.











                                                        4096







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 motion is to approve the nominees as read by



                 the clerk.  All in favor signify by saying



                 aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    All



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 ayes have it.  The nominees are confirmed.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there any



                 housekeeping at the desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Yes, there is, Senator.  We have some votes



                 that want to be changed, and Senator McGee has



                 a motion.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on



                 page number 50 I offer the following



                 amendments to Calendar Number 1026, Senate



                 Print Number 7146, on behalf of Senator



                 LaValle, and ask that said bill retain its



                 place on Third Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted, and the











                                                        4097







                 bill will retain its place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 move that the following bills be discharged



                 from their respective committees and be



                 recommitted with instructions to strike the



                 enacting clause:  On behalf of Senator Volker,



                 Senate Bill Number 2581A.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    So



                 ordered.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. President,



                 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar 1055, Senate Bill



                 4606B.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Without objection, so ordered.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Senator Oppenheimer.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I request



                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the



                 negative for the same bill, 1055.











                                                        4098







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 Without objection, so ordered.



                            Senator Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Mr.



                 President, I would like to announce a



                 conference of the Senate Minority members



                 immediately in the Minority Conference Room.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:



                 There will be an immediate conference of the



                 Minority in the Minority Conference Room.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    For all of



                 those who are listening -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    For



                 all of those who are listening or not



                 listening, they should -



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    -- would



                 they please -- all of the members, will they



                 please -



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    All



                 four of us that heard you, we'll be there.



                            Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    It's my



                 understanding that the conference is going to



                 be a half hour.  So the Senate will stand at



                 ease until 3:15.











                                                        4099







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:    The



                 Senate will stand at ease, on motion, till



                 3:15.



                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at



                 ease at 2:45 p.m.)



                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened



                 at 4:13 p.m.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Senator



                 Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I just want to announce



                 there's going to be an immediate meeting of



                 the Rules Committee in the Majority Conference



                 Room.



                            And the Senate will continue to



                 stand at ease.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    The



                 Senate will continue to stand at ease.



                            A Rules Committee meeting in the



                 Majority Conference Room.  Thank you, Senator



                 Morahan.



                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at



                 ease at 4:14 p.m.)



                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened



                 at 4:29 p.m.)











                                                        4100







                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    The



                 Senate will be in order.



                            Senator McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on



                 behalf of Senator Stafford, I wish to call up



                 Print Number 7001, recalled from the Assembly,



                 which is now at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1231, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7001,



                 an act making certain findings.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this



                 bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Call



                 the roll on reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 now offer the following amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.











                                                        4101







                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    You're



                 welcome, Senator McGee.



                            Senator Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Mr.



                 President, may I have unanimous consent to be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number



                 1055.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:



                 Unanimous consent to be recorded in the



                 negative, Senator Dollinger, on 1055?



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Without



                 objection.



                            Senator Smith.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I too wish to have unanimous



                 consent to be recorded in the negative on



                 Calendar Number 1055.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Without



                 objection, Senator Smith in the negative on



                 Senate 1055.



                            Senator Krueger.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I also would like unanimous











                                                        4102







                 consent to be recorded in the negative on



                 Senate 1055.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Senator



                 Krueger, without objection, negative on



                 Calendar Number 1055.



                            Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Mr. President,



                 could we return to reports of standing



                 committees.  I believe there's a report from



                 the Rules Committee at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Yes,



                 there is.



                            Read the report.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,



                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the



                 following bills:



                            Senate Print 870, by Senator McGee,



                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            1167, by Senator McGee, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            1328A, by Senator Wright, an act to



                 amend the Tax Law;



                            3175A, by Senator Maziarz, an act



                 to amend the Executive Law;



                            4068, by Senator McGee, an act to











                                                        4103







                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            5603A, by Senator Leibell, an act



                 to amend the Retirement and Social Security



                 Law;



                            5780, by Senator Brown, an act to



                 amend the Highway Law;



                            6024A, by Senator Maziarz, an act



                 to amend the General Municipal Law;



                            6339, by Senator McGee, an act to



                 amend Chapter 558 of the Laws of 1999;



                            6503, by Senator Bonacic, an act to



                 change the jurisdiction;



                            6707A, by Senator Farley, an act to



                 amend the Public Officers Law;



                            6793, by Senator Spano, an act to



                 amend Executive Law;



                            7139A, by Senator Wright, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            7351, by Senator McGee, an act to



                 amend the Highway Law;



                            7415A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to



                 amend the Uniform District Court Act;



                            7419, by Senator Saland, an act to



                 amend the Criminal Procedure Law;



                            7442, by Senator Saland, an act to











                                                        4104







                 amend the Penal Law;



                            7448A, by the Senate Committee on



                 Rules, an act to amend the Education Law;



                            And Senate Print 7476, by Senator



                 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Correction Law.



                            All bills ordered direct to third



                 reading.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    Senator



                 Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Madam -



                 Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    It's



                 okay.  Mr. President.  It's okay.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  I now move the adoption of the



                 Rules report, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    All in



                 favor of accepting the Rules report say aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:



                 Opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    The



                 Rules report is adopted.



                            Senator Morahan.











                                                        4105







                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Any other



                 further housekeeping at the desk, Mr.



                 President?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    No,



                 there is none here.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Okay.  Having



                 no other business today, I would move that we



                 adjourn until 11 o'clock on Wednesday,



                 June 5th.



                            There will be a Majority conference



                 in the Majority Conference Room at 10:30 a.m.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER:    On



                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until



                 Wednesday, June 5th, at 11:00 a.m.



                            Senate Majority Conference at 10:30



                 tomorrow in the Senate Conference Room.



                            (Whereupon, at 4:33 p.m., the



                 Senate adjourned.)