Regular Session - June 10, 2002

                                                            4229







                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE











                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD



















                             ALBANY, NEW YORK



                               June 10, 2002



                                 3:07 p.m.











                              REGULAR SESSION















            SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President



            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary



































                                                        4230







                           P R O C E E D I N G S



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Senate will come to order.



                            I ask everyone present to please



                 rise and join me in reciting the Pledge of



                 Allegiance to the Flag.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited



                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 invocation today will be given by Mathews



                 Barnabas, Metropolitan of the American Diocese



                 of the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church.



                            METROPOLITAN BARNABAS:    Let us



                 pray.



                            Almighty and most merciful Lord



                 from whom all thoughts of peace and truth



                 proceed, kindle, we pray Thee, in the hearts



                 of all peoples of the world the true love of



                 peace.



                            Guide with Thy wisdom those who pay



                 counsel to all nations of the earth, that they



                 may learn to live as Your children in peace



                 and harmony.  Drive away from them all evil,



                 hatred, and cruelty, that they may accommodate



                 and accept one another, with charity to all











                                                        4231







                 and malice to none.



                            And now, Lord, we commend to Thee



                 all who are engaged in the government of



                 New York State, the executive, the



                 legislative, and the judiciary.  Grant to them



                 pure hearts, clean hands, and sober minds, and



                 unfailing devotion to duty.



                            O, Lord, use them as instruments of



                 Thy will for the uplift of the poor, the



                 relief of the oppressed, and the eradication



                 of all social evils.



                            And finally, Lord, we beseech Thee



                 to give them Thy grace to think, to speak, and



                 to do everything for Your glory and the good



                 of Thy people whom they represent.



                            We ask all this for Your glory,



                 amen.  God bless America.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading



                 of the Journal.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,



                 Sunday, June 9, the Senate met pursuant to



                 adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, June 8,



                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate



                 adjourned.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without











                                                        4232







                 objection, the Journal stands approved as



                 read.



                            Presentation of petitions.



                            Messages from the Assembly.



                            Messages from the Governor.



                            Reports of standing committees.



                            Reports of select committees.



                            Communications and reports from



                 state officers.



                            Motions and resolutions.



                            Senator McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I wish to call up, on behalf of



                 Senator Leibell, Print Number 7441, recalled



                 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1279, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7441,



                 an act to amend the Retirement and Social



                 Security Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this







                                                        4233







                 bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll on reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 now offer the following amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            Senator McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on



                 behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to call up



                 his bill, Print Number 6663A, recalled from



                 the Assembly, which is now at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1045, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6663A,



                 an act to amend the Highway Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this



                 bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the











                                                        4234







                 roll on reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I



                 now offer the following amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank



                 you, Senator McGee.



                            Senator Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            Amendments are offered to the



                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:



                            Senator Leibell, page 8, Calendar



                 Number 149, Senate Print Number 5082A;



                            For Senator Padavan, page number



                 12, Calendar Number 291, Senate Print Number



                 4748;



                            For Senator Larkin, on page number



                 29, Calendar Number 680, Senate Print Number











                                                        4235







                 4137A;



                            For Senator Morahan, on page number



                 38, Calendar Number 840, Senate Print Number



                 6182C;



                            For Senator Marcellino, on page 40,



                 Calendar Number 901, Senate Print Number 6947;



                            For Senator Seward, on page 44,



                 Calendar Number 941, Senate Print Number



                 5524A;



                            For Senator Hoffmann, page number



                 44, Calendar Number 949, Senate Print Number



                 6913;



                            For Senator Lack, page number 46,



                 Calendar Number 989, Senate Print Number



                 5669A;



                            For Senator Skelos, on page 49,



                 Calendar Number 1029, Senate Print Number



                 7153A;



                            For Senator Seward, page number 55,



                 Calendar Number 1123, Senate Print Number



                 2400A;



                            For Senator Leibell, page number



                 56, Calendar Number 1126, Senate Print Number



                 3252;



                            For Senator DeFrancisco, page











                                                        4236







                 number 62, Calendar Number 1257, Senate Print



                 Number 7414A;



                            For Senator Lack, page number 59,



                 Calendar Number 1170, Senate Print Number



                 4090.



                            And, Mr. President, I now move that



                 these bills retain their place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bills will retain their place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            On behalf of Senator Velella, on



                 page number 16 I offer the following



                 amendments to Calendar Number 371, Senate



                 Print Number 3663, and ask that said bill



                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted, and the



                 bill will retain its place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.











                                                        4237







                 President, on behalf of Senator Volker, I move



                 for the following bill be discharged from its



                 respective committee and be recommitted with



                 instructions to strike the enacting clause:



                 Senate Print Number 3432.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So



                 ordered.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, on behalf of Senator Wright, I wish



                 to call up Senate Print Number 6136, recalled



                 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 570, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6136, an



                 act in relation to fire protection.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, I now move to reconsider the vote



                 by which the bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll on reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.











                                                        4238







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, I now offer the following



                 amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            Senator Stachowski.



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.



                 President, on behalf of Senator Brown, I wish



                 to call up his bill, Print 5780, recalled from



                 the Assembly, which is now at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1289, by Senator Brown, Senate Print 5780, an



                 act to amend the Highway Law.



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.



                 President, I now move to reconsider the vote



                 by which this bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll on reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 49.



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.











                                                        4239







                 President, I now offer the following



                 amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    If we could go



                 to the noncontroversial reading of the



                 calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read the noncontroversial



                 calendar.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 16, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4641C, an



                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to



                 accounting of certain assets.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.











                                                        4240







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 224, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2656B, an



                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in



                 relation to the operation of games of chance.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 307, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 807, an



                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in



                 relation to the taxation of certain state



                 lands.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 330, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5027A, an



                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in











                                                        4241







                 relation to extending the limitation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 537, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 1116A,



                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets



                 Law, in relation to exempting therapy dogs



                 from licensing fees.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 January.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.











                                                        4242







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 586, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6748A, an



                 act creating the Hudson Area Public Library.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 607, by Senator Volker -



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 627, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,



                 Assembly Print Number 8735, an act to amend



                 the Economic Development Law, in relation to











                                                        4243







                 the provision of entrepreneurial assistance.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 665, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6877A,



                 an act to amend Chapter 433 of the Laws of



                 1997 amending the Public Health Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane, why do you rise?



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.











                                                        4244







                 President.  To explain my vote.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane, to explain his vote.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    I just -- you



                 know, I always have a problem when we renew a



                 law so that we can extend the demonstration



                 program.  We keep extending demonstration



                 programs around here, but we never really find



                 out what those programs have actually



                 demonstrated.



                            So I'm hoping that this will be the



                 last time we have to extend this and once and



                 for all do what the law previously had called



                 for, and that's to get a report on what the



                 demonstration had shown for portable x-rays



                 for people who are entitled to Medicaid.



                            So, you know, I've been here for -



                 this is the -- coming down on the end of my



                 fourth year.  And, you know, rarely if ever



                 have I ever seen a demonstration law actually



                 end up with results.  We only ever continue to



                 extend the demonstrations.  So I wish we could



                 get our acts together and just make sure that



                 the -- whatever agency is supposed to give us



                 a report gives us the report.











                                                        4245







                            But I'll be voting yes on this one,



                 Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane will be recorded in the affirmative.



                            Announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 748, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4154A, an



                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to



                 the provision of school health services.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 September.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 766, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,











                                                        4246







                 Assembly Print Number 11254, an act to amend



                 the Environmental Conservation Law, in



                 relation to marine resources management.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 832, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 7284, an



                 act to amend the County Law, in relation to



                 the assigned counsel representation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 this is Calendar Number 832, isn't it?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, it











                                                        4247







                 is, Senator.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Would you lay



                 that aside, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 953, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 6498, an act to amend the Real Property Tax



                 Law, in relation to establishing a permanent



                 exemption.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Lay it



                 aside, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1028, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 7152, an



                 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in



                 relation to allowing certain shared



                 purchasing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.











                                                        4248







                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1046, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6813, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in



                 relation to violations of vehicle weight.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1054, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2712,



                 an act to amend the State Administrative



                 Procedure Act, in relation to denial,



                 suspension and revocation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.











                                                        4249







                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2 -



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Lay it aside.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1059, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6937, an



                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to



                 the research development program.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1099, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3833, an



                 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation



                 to speed at Crooke's Point in Great Kills



                 Harbor.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.











                                                        4250







                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1100, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 4240A, an act to amend the Navigation Law, in



                 relation to vessel equipment.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 April.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1171, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3391A, an











                                                        4251







                 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to



                 restricting the parties.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1251, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 7135B, an



                 act to amend the Social Services Law, in



                 relation to application for the food stamp



                 program.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.











                                                        4252







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1298, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7419, an



                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the



                 Family Court Act, the Penal Law and the Public



                 Health Law, in relation to testing.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the



                 bill aside.



                            Senator Skelos, that completes the



                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,



                 if we could go to the controversial reading of



                 the calendar at this time.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read the controversial



                 calendar.



                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 10,



                 Calendar Number 224, by Senator Larkin, Senate











                                                        4253







                 Print 2656B, an act to amend the General



                 Municipal Law, in relation to the operation of



                 games of chance.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Larkin, Senator Dollinger has requested an



                 explanation of Calendar 224.



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Richard, this is



                 a bill we've had before in this house.  And



                 we've worked out the differences between the



                 Governor's office, the Assembly, and ourself.



                            This bill permits games of chance



                 to be conducted by licensed, non-for-profit



                 organizations, such as our volunteer fire and



                 ambulance, no more than three times a year at



                 a private catering or restaurant.



                            The basis for this was in



                 discussion with the volunteer firemen and



                 ambulance units across the state.  One of the



                 biggest problems in our rural areas, as you



                 know, is they do not hold title to a facility



                 large enough so that they can meet their



                 obligations, pay off their debts, and meet the



                 requirements of OSHA and everybody else.











                                                        4254







                            The numbers that we're using were



                 those that were negotiated on a three-way



                 negotiation.



                            At one time this year there was an



                 objection by the City of New York.  They have



                 withdrawn that because in there we have



                 eliminated New York City at the request of the



                 city.  So this only pertains to those units



                 outside of New York City.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Will the



                 sponsor yield to a question, Mr. President?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Larkin, do you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    My concern



                 with this bill, Senator Larkin, is that what



                 we will do is establish, in essence,



                 not-for-profit gambling centers, that there



                 will be halls that will engage in



                 not-for-profit gaming every night of the week











                                                        4255







                 or every weekend of the year around the clock.



                            Is there anything in this bill that



                 prevents that from happening?



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Richard.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And could you



                 point me to that language?



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Well, first of



                 all, in the language there they cannot have



                 more than 12 in a given year, that respective



                 catering house or restaurant.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Larkin, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, Richard.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    And I hate to



                 be picayune, but could you just tell me where



                 that language is in the bill so I can



                 reference that?



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Section 7, line



                 50.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,











                                                        4256







                 Mr. President, what line number was that



                 again?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Line 50.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Section 7,



                 line 50.



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Section 7,



                 Richard.  Richard (indicating).



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Just on the



                 bill briefly, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Dollinger, on the bill.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I appreciate



                 the sponsor extending me not only the courtesy



                 of an answer, but extending the courtesy of



                 pointing out the line.  I haven't had that



                 happen before, but I appreciate it.



                            Mr. President, I'm going to still



                 vote against this bill.  I think that the



                 effect of an increased concentration of gaming



                 activities even under the banner of



                 not-for-profit activities is not a good idea.



                 I continue to think that as we create a



                 greater and greater chance that there will be



                 more halls that become identified as places



                 where gaming, even for not-for-profit











                                                        4257







                 purposes, can occur, I think that



                 concentration is unwarranted.



                            It seems to me that we continue to



                 move down this path toward encouraging people



                 to raise money not just for not-for-profits,



                 but Lord knows we've now encouraged people to



                 raise money for the State of New York -



                 supposedly, someday billions of dollars



                 through gaming.



                            I continue to think this is a bad



                 idea.  I think encouraging it, increasing it,



                 feeding the beast of gaming in this state is



                 not the right thing to do.  This may be a



                 somewhat benign step down that road, but it's



                 not even an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny step that



                 I want to take, Mr. President.  I'll vote no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Does any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            Debate is closed.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This



                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)











                                                        4258







                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar Number 224 are



                 Senators Dollinger, Duane, L. Krueger, and



                 Padavan.  Ayes, 51.  Nays, 4.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 307, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 807, an



                 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in



                 relation to the taxation of certain state



                 lands.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Wright, Senator Paterson has requested an



                 explanation of Calendar 307.



                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            The bill provides for an amendment



                 to the Real Property Tax Law that would



                 require for the payment of taxations to the



                 Town of Parish in the County of Oswego on



                 state-owned conservation land.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,











                                                        4259







                 Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield to a



                 question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Wright, do you yield to a question from



                 Senator Dollinger?



                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I do, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    I know we



                 debated this bill partly last year, Senator



                 Wright.  And maybe you could just refresh my



                 recollection.  Approximately -



                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Would you like



                 me to read the debate verbatim to refresh your



                 memory?



                            (Laughter.)



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Through you,



                 Mr. President, I haven't refreshed my



                 recollection with the debate from last year.



                            But the question I have is about



                 the Town of Parish.  What percentage of the



                 real property tax base is actually covered by



                 the reforestation tax exemption?



                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Ten percent.











                                                        4260







                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Ten percent.



                            Just briefly on the bill, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Dollinger, on the bill.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Senator



                 Wright and I, I think perhaps with Senator



                 Paterson, debated this bill at some length



                 last year.



                            The concern I have about this bill,



                 the reason why I voted against it and I'm



                 going to continue to vote against it this



                 year, is that I think we're dealing in a



                 hodgepodge, happenstance manner with the issue



                 of what happens when there are significant



                 properties located in communities that are



                 tax-exempt.



                            Senator Wright's point is perhaps



                 well-taken with respect to the Town of Parish.



                 But as the President knows, and I'm sure



                 everybody else knows, in our major cities like



                 the city of Rochester there are enormous



                 tax-exempt properties.  A major portion, a



                 growing portion of the properties in these



                 communities are consumed by educational











                                                        4261







                 institutions, philanthropic institutions, and



                 health care institutions, none of which pay



                 real property taxes, putting a further drain



                 on municipal resources.



                            It seems to me that the way to do



                 this is to adopt a policy that would be



                 applicable statewide that would say when the



                 percentage of real property tax exemption



                 becomes -- say the Town of Parish, if it



                 exceeds 10 percent, if the not-for-profit and



                 tax-exempt property exceeds 10 percent of the



                 tax base, then there is an adjustment made or



                 additional payments or something done to



                 shield the municipality from the extra cost.



                            I know in the community I



                 represent, I believe in the city of Rochester



                 the number is about 35 percent of the real



                 property tax base is exempt from taxation



                 because it meets tax-exempt status.  It seems



                 to me that that's something we should do



                 across the board rather than just doing it for



                 the Town of Parish.



                            I voted against it before.  I do



                 because I think it's unfair to do it



                 piecemeal.  I would strongly support a bill











                                                        4262







                 that would adjust, for communities across the



                 state when they reach a certain percentage,



                 let's give them some additional form of



                 relief.



                            That might be something



                 conveniently to include in a bill that would



                 deal with the partial property tax exemptions,



                 so that we could end the troubling the Senate



                 for the 20 bills that we've done this year



                 that involve partial property tax exemptions,



                 all of which stem from Nassau County.



                            Mr. President, let's do a real



                 property cleanup tax bill.  We could do the



                 partial tax bill, the partial property



                 exemption, and we could also do an emergency



                 aid or a special funding when certain



                 communities exceed a fixed percentage of their



                 real property tax base.  Until we do that



                 complete cleanup bill, I'll continue to vote



                 no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Does any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            The debate is closed, then.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This











                                                        4263







                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar Number 307 are



                 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Gentile, Hevesi,



                 Paterson, A. Smith, and Stavisky.  Ayes, 49.



                 Nays, 7.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 607, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2305A, an



                 act to amend Penal Law, in relation to



                 assaults against transit employees.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Volker, Senator Hevesi has requested an



                 explanation of Calendar 607.



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President, I



                 regret, Senator Hevesi, that you won't be here



                 next year.  But I -- anticipating that, I have



                 tried to make sure that this bill passes this



                 year.



                            So that I have reached over to the











                                                        4264







                 Assembly and had some discussions with them.



                 And this bill, if you'll notice, has been



                 amended.  And actually I have a different



                 sponsor than I had last year.  Roger Green is



                 the sponsor.  I've had discussions with the



                 Assembly.



                            And not only does this bill now



                 amend the law to raise the penalty for



                 assaults against bus operators, bus



                 dispatchers, and so forth -- in other words,



                 transit employees -- and provide that it's a



                 second degree assault, which means it's a



                 Class D felony, but it also provides, as



                 requested by the Assembly, that signs be



                 posted in conspicuous places on the public



                 transportation vehicles and so forth, and sets



                 up the lettering to point out that an attack



                 on any transit employee is a serious offense,



                 a felony, and would subject a person to the



                 possibility of seven years in jail.



                            And the concept that the Assembly



                 asked for, they believe that this would help



                 maybe to protect some of the people who are on



                 the transit facilities and so forth.



                            So that's the difference in this











                                                        4265







                 bill from last year, which I remind you passed



                 55 to 2 last year.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hevesi.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    On the bill, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hevesi, on the bill.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Just briefly.  I



                 don't want to rehash the debate we had last



                 year.



                            I'm surprised to hear that -- and



                 I'll just infer from what Senator Volker said



                 that it's possible that the Assembly failed to



                 pass this bill two years in a row because



                 there was not a provision regarding the



                 posting of the potential penalty.



                            I thought that the Assembly shared



                 my concerns with the problem with this bill,



                 which evidently they don't, and which remain



                 primarily that we are taking a Class A



                 misdemeanor and increasing it to a D felony,



                 not an E felony, and affording individuals



                 protections that I don't know why it's



                 justified.  It's certainly justified for











                                                        4266







                 police officers and peace officers and what



                 have you, but not for all categories of



                 transit workers.



                            And just again, briefly, I gave the



                 example of this last time when we debated it.



                 If this bill passed into law the following



                 scenario could happen.  I'm assaulted and am



                 injured badly.  My assailant can face only,



                 under current law, a maximum of up to a year



                 in jail.  But if a sweeper on the subway in



                 New York City is assaulted, his assailant can



                 get up to seven years in jail.  I don't



                 understand it.



                            What we should do -- and I think



                 Senator Volker agreed to it, but there are



                 other problems from doing this -- is to raise



                 second-degree assault to a Class E felony for



                 everybody, and that way you don't have the



                 disparity where you're now providing



                 additional penalties -- not for emergency



                 service workers, who I think we all agree need



                 the additional penalties -- but you're not



                 taking transit workers, who I don't believe



                 are any more likely to be assaulted.



                            And I know that the unions want it,











                                                        4267







                 and I know nobody wants to go against the



                 unions because there could be retribution



                 there.  But I see no reason why because



                 individuals who work for the transit authority



                 or are in transit-related positions who are in



                 contact with the public quite a bit are more



                 likely to be assaulted as a consequence of



                 their job.



                            And just as a matter of equity, I



                 think this is a bad idea.  So I'm going to



                 continue to vote no.  No disrespect, Mr.



                 President, intended to the hardworking men and



                 women who work on buses and what have you.



                 And I know that they are assaulted sometimes.



                 So are people who are not transit workers and



                 who are not emergency service workers.



                            And for those who are emergency



                 service workers, we have the protection.  For



                 other individuals, I agree an A misdemeanor is



                 insufficient.  But the way to remedy that is



                 not to take one class of people and give them



                 much greater protection than anybody else even



                 when they don't really deserve it.  It's to



                 give everybody else a greater protection by



                 providing an E felony for a second-degree











                                                        4268







                 assault.



                            I'll be voting no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. Chairman,



                 if the sponsor would yield to one question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Volker, do you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Certainly.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. Chairman,



                 my question is this.  Are there restrictions



                 to the time and place -- or not the time, but



                 the place of the assault?



                            In other words, let's say a transit



                 worker were not doing the performance of his



                 or her job and were assaulted.  Would this



                 apply?



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Senator, I think



                 the answer to that is it's a question of fact.



                            But I think you're right, that this



                 would have to be in the importance, obviously,



                 of their duties.  Because the reason for the



                 protection is -- and I guess I would only











                                                        4269







                 disagree with what Senator Hevesi said, is



                 that there is a lot of studies that have been



                 done on transit employee assaults, which are



                 extremely high, particularly in New York City



                 and in Buffalo.



                            But the answer is that they would



                 have to be related to what they're doing.



                 Because quite clearly, if you're going to



                 designate a group, the fact that they were



                 assaulted, for instance, in their own home



                 would have no relation to the transit



                 authorities.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you.



                            Mr. President, on the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Stavisky, on the bill.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    I recall



                 reading in the newspaper about, oh, maybe a



                 month ago, or within the past month, that two



                 transit employees, two women transit employees



                 in the city of New York were indeed assaulted.



                            This is a very serious problem.



                 It's hard enough to drive a city bus, for



                 example.  And they certainly should be



                 afforded all of the protection that the law











                                                        4270







                 provides.  And I certainly will be supporting



                 Senator Volker's bill.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            Debate is closed.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 November.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.  Nays,



                 1.  Senator Hevesi recorded in the negative.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 832, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 7284, an



                 act to amend the County Law, in relation to



                 the assigned counsel representation.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Lay it aside



                 for the day, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the











                                                        4271







                 bill aside for the day.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 953, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print



                 6498, an act to amend the Real Property Tax



                 Law, in relation to establishing a permanent



                 exemption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:



                 Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco, Senator Liz Krueger has requested



                 an explanation.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Presently



                 there's a provision of the law that allows for



                 individuals to increase the value of their



                 property by making improvements while not



                 being taxed for the cost of those



                 improvements.  The problem with that bill is



                 that the tax exemption for the improvements, I



                 believe it's up to $80,000, phases out after



                 seven years.



                            In discussions with housing groups



                 in Syracuse, Assemblywoman Christensen and



                 myself prepared this bill that would allow for











                                                        4272







                 a lesser exemption for improvements up to



                 $40,000, rather than $80,000, but allow the



                 property to be exempt during the entire



                 ownership of the property for that



                 improvement, up to $40,000.



                            And the purpose is obviously to



                 improve the housing stock in our area and in



                 urban areas.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Krueger.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                 If the sponsor will yield to a question.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            How is this publicized, Senator



                 DeFrancisco?  How do people know about this



                 option in different communities?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    The same



                 way they know about any other law.  They



                 either read about it being passed, they are



                 told by their representatives in mailings or











                                                        4273







                 in brochures, or they learn from housing



                 groups that this particular option is



                 available.



                            But on the other hand, it doesn't



                 become available unless it's passed.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Okay, thank



                 you.



                            If the sponsor would continue to



                 yield, Mr. President, through you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco, do you yield?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            Since you mention there's an



                 existing law that allows for $80,000 up to



                 seven years, is this an alternative to -



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    -- or a



                 replacement for?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    No, this



                 would be an alternative.



                            It's a smaller exemption, but a lot



                 of low-income individuals who are trying to











                                                        4274







                 cling on to their home and make improvements



                 most likely will keep their home for a much



                 longer period of time.  It's not to flip the



                 piece of property over.



                            And the concept here is for



                 individuals that own a home that's -- and



                 they're low-income individuals, they don't



                 have to have a big tax kick-up for that, up to



                 $40,000 as long as they hold that home.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President, if the sponsor would continue to



                 yield to an additional question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Senator.



                            I was fascinated by this bill, and



                 I was not familiar with this model.  So now



                 they would have an alternative, they could



                 choose whichever locality.



                            Could a locality say yes to me and



                 no to you under the same circumstances once











                                                        4275







                 the locality had taken this option?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well,



                 first, the locality has to say yes to the



                 option in the first place.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Right.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    And I would



                 think that if they -- well, I know that if



                 they accept the option and pass it with a



                 local ordinance, unless they want to get sued,



                 they have to make it applicable to all people



                 that are covered by the bill.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            If the sponsor would continue to



                 yield, through you, Mr. President.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            Senator DeFrancisco, why does it



                 apply only to single-family homes as opposed



                 to any residence in a community?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, you



                 know, you can modify a bill any way you



                 choose.  But what we're mostly concerned about



                 is owner-occupied properties, rather than











                                                        4276







                 multiple residence.  Multiple residence, at



                 least in our area, even two-family homes, are



                 mostly owned by absentee landlords or



                 landlords that are not living in the property.



                            And as a result, we're trying to



                 get this benefit not so somebody can make



                 money but, on the other hand, for people who



                 are residing in their home to improve it and



                 improve the quality of housing in the city.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I'm sorry.



                 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue



                 to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Does the



                 sponsor yield?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    He



                 yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            There seems to be -- in Section 6



                 of the bill, it allowed for the sponsor to, it



                 seemed, pass along the right for the spouse to



                 stay in the home while they went off to a



                 separate residence.  Is it your understanding



                 that I could conceivably have two homes under



                 this tax deduction scenario?











                                                        4277







                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Let me read



                 the section.  One second.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Just a



                 second, Senator DeFrancisco.



                            Can we have some quiet, please.



                 Senator DeFrancisco has the floor.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, once



                 again, the exemption is for people so that



                 they -- individuals who decide to hold their



                 home.  I mean, to keep the home.  And it



                 ceases once the home is sold.



                            But that's -- this provision is to



                 accommodate for if one of the two, a husband



                 and wife, one of them has to go to a nursing



                 home or one of them cannot reside there any



                 longer.  Say the woman had the exemption, she



                 owned the property.  She goes into a nursing



                 home.  It allows for the woman to transfer to



                 her husband the property and still maintain



                 this exemption.



                            So the rule is basically that once



                 you sell it, the exemption is over, the new



                 person has to pay at the higher value.  But to



                 accommodate a husband-and-wife situation where



                 one is no longer able to live in the











                                                        4278







                 residence, that provision was put in.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President, if the sponsor would yield to one



                 final question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco, do you yield?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    He



                 yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Senator.



                            Why does the bill apply only to



                 localities of below a million people?



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, the



                 existing law that I talked about before about



                 an exemption over a period of seven years, up



                 to $80,000, that also applied to locations



                 other than a million people.



                            There's a whole series of other



                 benefits that are particular to New York City



                 that are in the law.  But I just modeled this



                 bill over the -- after the last one.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            Mr. President, if I could just



                 speak on the bill.











                                                        4279







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Krueger, on the bill.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Excuse me;



                 I just thought of this.  $40,000 probably



                 wouldn't buy much in New York City.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    That's



                 true, it doesn't.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Just



                 kidding.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    No, no, I



                 think it's accurate.  You're right, it



                 doesn't.



                            I was fascinated by the bill, and I



                 think that while on the one hand there are



                 some concerns of localities of giving up their



                 property tax money depending on how widely



                 this option might be chosen by people, Senator



                 DeFrancisco did clarify for me another concern



                 that I had that it would be used with



                 selection by a locality; that if they liked



                 Candidate One who applied for it, they could



                 give it to them as a tax deduction, and if



                 they didn't like Candidate Two, they could



                 refuse that.  So I appreciate the



                 clarification.











                                                        4280







                            I think, overall, giving localities



                 the option to make their own decisions about



                 how they use their flexibility over property



                 tax to encourage expansion and redevelopment



                 and I guess improvement in their housing stock



                 is a good model.  And I will vote for this



                 bill.



                            I wish that we would imagine



                 expanding this to include other than



                 single-family owners.  Because in fact, as the



                 housing market continues to tighten for people



                 throughout the state of New York, not only in



                 my own city -- certainly in Long Island we



                 hear frequently about the problems of



                 overcrowding and inadequate housing



                 arrangements -- that we would allow the same



                 options for localities, whether it be in



                 property tax reductions or in zoning



                 ordinances and changes, to address the issue



                 of multifamily housing models as well as



                 single-family houses.



                            I think that my one concern with



                 this bill is that it continues a pattern of



                 inequity in the state of New York between how



                 we treat single-family houses and how we treat











                                                        4281







                 multifamily dwellings.  I understood the



                 Senator's point that we don't want this to be



                 an option for people who are, say, absentee



                 landlords or simply people who are in the real



                 estate business.



                            But, in fact, in multifamily



                 dwellings you often have someone who's an



                 owner trying to assure that they can both get



                 a return on their property investment in order



                 to continue to afford their own housing and



                 also be able to assure additional housing in



                 their community.



                            So I wish that I could recommend



                 that in the next incarnation of this bill that



                 it's amended to include multifamily housing as



                 well.



                            And I would argue also that I think



                 that we should make this statewide, since it



                 is local option.  And there's probably good



                 arguments why the City of New York might not



                 be interested in going down this road.  I



                 don't see why the State of New York should



                 pass a bill that would limit the City of



                 New York's option to do this.



                            So with the recommendations that











                                                        4282







                 sometime we might explore expanding to



                 multifamily as well as single-family, and



                 including the City of New York, I will vote



                 for this bill, and I thank you for the



                 clarification, Senator.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            Debate is closed.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane, to explain his vote.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            I'm going to vote in favor of this



                 bill.  But I do also want to make the point of



                 how important it would be for the City of New



                 York for us to be able to extend a tax credit



                 for people who are fixing up their landmark



                 buildings.  That would do a great deal to help











                                                        4283







                 beautify our neighborhoods in a time like



                 this.  Particularly when New York City needs



                 more visitors, our historic districts are



                 perhaps our greatest attraction.



                            So I'm hoping that before the end



                 of this session we will see that legislation



                 come to the floor.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane will be recorded in the affirmative.



                            Announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I would request unanimous



                 consent to be recorded in the negative on



                 Calendar 224, Senate 2656B.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without



                 objection, Senator Schneiderman will be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 224.



                            The Secretary will continue to



                 read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number











                                                        4284







                 1054, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2712,



                 an act to amend the State Administrative



                 Procedure Act, in relation to denial,



                 suspension and revocation of a license.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Padavan, Senator Paterson has requested an



                 explanation of Calendar 1054.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you,



                 Senator Paterson.



                            The employing of individuals by



                 licensed entities in the State of New York who



                 are not authorized to work in this country is



                 and can be a serious problem.



                            I believe, and I'm sure you agree,



                 that a license issued by our state to any



                 entity, of which there are many, is a serious



                 issue.  And a person who applies for that



                 license should be in compliance with all



                 federal and state laws.  To issue a license to



                 someone who is not I think is patently wrong.



                            This bill prevents the issuance of



                 a license to someone, some entity that has



                 violated federal law, specifically the Federal



                 Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, on











                                                        4285







                 two or more separate occasions.  At that



                 point, an administrative procedure would take



                 place and that state agency which issues the



                 license has the opportunity of suspending or



                 revoking the license.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Paterson.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 if Senator Padavan would yield for a couple of



                 questions.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Padavan, do you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    A couple?



                 That's two.  And I'd be delighted.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor is delighted and yields.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Well, Mr.



                 President, I chose the number two because I



                 was wondering why Senator Paterson chose two



                 violations, being that -- the volume of



                 individuals that come through the system.



                            And often in these situations



                 people come to our country, they want very



                 much to work.  Sometimes the people who are



                 using the documents are not the actual people.











                                                        4286







                 In other words, they're using aliases.  Other



                 times, the documents themselves are sometimes



                 fraudulent.



                            Isn't it a rather severe



                 encumbrance on the employer to weed through -



                 I think most of the time most employers can do



                 it.  But this is a tremendous number of



                 applications that they look at and people that



                 come through there.  And this is a rampant



                 problem.  You've identified a problem,



                 Senator.



                            I'm just asking you if two



                 violations should be the threshold.  And if



                 not a specific number, perhaps a pattern and a



                 practice of conduct.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Keep in mind,



                 Senator, the federal statute that we're



                 referring to has no such threshold.  Either



                 you violate it or you don't.  And the hiring



                 of illegal aliens and the continuation of



                 employment of illegal aliens is in violation



                 of federal law.



                            We are being somewhat pliable, in a



                 sense, by allowing an employer at least that



                 first mistake.  And should it occur again,











                                                        4287







                 then we feel the license should be put in



                 jeopardy.



                            Also keep in mind, we don't mandate



                 that the license be revoked.  We provide an



                 opportunity for the state agency to consider



                 that possibility.



                            First question.  Second one coming.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 I think that I'm going to grant Senator



                 Padavan a reprieve.  One question ought to do



                 it.  And I'll speak on the bill.  Anxious as



                 he may be, though, to answer another question.



                            I was not aware that the federal



                 standard doesn't even require for there to be



                 two violations.  I think the reason I raised



                 this objection is just that I hope that there



                 won't be a chilling effect on the part of



                 employers where people are really denied the



                 opportunity to work because of the fear that



                 the employer would have about running a



                 violation of the Federal Immigration Act.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            Debate is closed, then.



                            Read the last section.











                                                        4288







                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect on the first day of



                 November.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar Number 1054 are



                 Senators Duane, Mendez, Paterson, and



                 Schneiderman.  Ayes, 52.  Nays, 4.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator Smith.



                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  I request unanimous consent to be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number



                 224, Senate Print 2656B.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without



                 objection, Senator Malcolm Smith will be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number



                 224.



                            The Secretary will continue to



                 read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1298, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7419, an











                                                        4289







                 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the



                 Family Court Act, the Penal Law and the Public



                 Health Law.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland, Senator Duane has requested an



                 explanation of Calendar 1298.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            Mr. President, some of us may



                 recall in 1995, as part of the then budget



                 agreement, we provided that, postconviction,



                 the victim of an assault or sexual assault,



                 more properly, would have the ability to make



                 application for and in turn require his or her



                 assailant to be HIV-tested.



                            This chamber, both prior to that



                 date and since that date, has proposed and



                 passed legislation in this house to expand



                 that right of a victim to include



                 preconviction testing and to expand it to all



                 sexually transmissible diseases, or certainly



                 a number of enumerated sexually transmitted



                 diseases.











                                                        4290







                            What this bill would do would be to



                 say that a victim of a sexual assault would



                 effectively be empowered, by way of his or her



                 choice, to request, by way of application of a



                 court, to have his or her assailant tested for



                 a sexually transmissible disease where in fact



                 there had been an indictment or some



                 accusatory instrument, that indictment or



                 accusatory instrument effectively providing



                 the threshold of reasonable cause to permit



                 the state to have an interest in a



                 preconviction testing.



                            What this bill would do would be to



                 expand the number of crimes for which such



                 testing could occur.  The bill would require



                 state funding for the testing.



                            The bill would require that, as



                 part and parcel of any application that might



                 be made by a victim, that that application



                 provide that the applicant had been advised



                 of -- and here I'm reading from the bill at



                 page 4 -- "the limitations on the information



                 to be obtained through a blood test on the



                 proposed subject:  current scientific



                 assessments of the risk of transmission of a











                                                        4291







                 disease from the exposure he or she may have



                 experienced; the need for the applicant to



                 undergo testing to definitely determine his or



                 her status with regard to any disease; and the



                 availability of prompt, readily accessible and



                 scientifically recognized laboratory testing



                 of the applicant, including, where



                 appropriate, polymerase chain reaction (PCR),



                 or other advanced testing technologies for the



                 diagnosis of transmissible disease at state



                 expense."



                            What originally brought me to this



                 subject a number of years ago was reported



                 instances in which defendants refused to



                 permit themselves to be tested; in fact, using



                 a refusal to be tested as a means to try and



                 derive a better plea bargain.



                            Some of you may recall as recently



                 as -- I believe it was April 30th of this



                 year, an editorial by the Daily News entitled



                 "Raped Again, By the Law."  And that



                 particular editorial goes on at some length to



                 describe a situation involving a woman in the



                 city of New York who had been the victim of a



                 sexual assault who in fact has undergone a











                                                        4292







                 number of tests and who, and I'm quoting here,



                 at a press conference with the New York State



                 Federation of Taxi Drivers stated:  "As a



                 precaution, I have to take four different



                 medicines to help protect against HIV,



                 chlamydia, herpes, and other sexually



                 transmissible diseases.  And I was told that



                 unless this guy volunteers for the test, I had



                 to wait until he was convicted."



                            "Stating the obvious" -- and here



                 I'm quoting from the editorial -- "obvious to



                 all but the criminal justice system in Albany,



                 she added, 'If you are assaulted, you should



                 have the right to know whether or not this



                 person has infected you with anything.'"



                            We have worked to provide a bill



                 which I believe is balanced, which reflects



                 the current state of the law, recognizing that



                 both state and federal courts have recognized



                 the right to preconviction testing.



                            I have worked very closely with



                 Senator Velella, having a number of meetings



                 with him with regard to this measure, and I've



                 greatly appreciated his assistance in helping



                 to put this together.











                                                        4293







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  On the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane, on the bill.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    I'm not going to



                 debate the sponsor on this bill, because I



                 don't really want to indicate that this bill



                 is in any way helpful or in fact worthy of



                 debate.



                            Mandatory testing of defendants has



                 not and never will be the answer.  Of course I



                 agree that victims of crimes, if they wish to



                 be tested, should be allowed to, at no cost to



                 them and should be -- the cost of the test



                 should be paid for by the state.



                            I also think that counseling and



                 mental health services should be provided at



                 no cost to the victim, and also to their



                 spouses and to their domestic partners.



                            But testing defendants -- and



                 remember, this bill also includes juveniles.



                 This isn't just adults, this is also



                 juveniles -- is wrong and ineffective.  Now,











                                                        4294







                 remember, this tests defendants.  Not those



                 who have been convicted, but defendants.  And,



                 as I say, it includes juvenile defendants.



                            Now, I know that some would say



                 that certain sex crimes should demand this



                 kind of testing of defendants.  I disagree



                 with that.  But this bill goes even further



                 than that.  This bill includes crimes of



                 aggravated assault and harassment, harassment



                 in the second degree.  I don't understand why



                 harassment is -- a defendant accused of the



                 crime of harassment should be mandatorily



                 tested for HIV.



                            Also -- also, this bill is also a



                 backhanded way of testing inmates people who



                 are incarcerated.  The bill includes



                 aggravated harassment of an employee by an



                 inmate.



                            So rather than making it a bill



                 which is about mandatory testing of people who



                 are incarcerated, this bill -- because, you



                 know, aggravated harassment in a correctional



                 facility is like if you push someone.  And



                 even at that, people are charged with



                 aggravated assault in facilities without











                                                        4295







                 anything actually happening.  But even if



                 there was an inmate pushing a correctional



                 officer, this subjects them to mandatory



                 testing.



                            This also subjects juveniles in



                 juvenile facilities -- this bill also includes



                 mandatory testing of defendants in juvenile



                 facilities who might be accused of pushing one



                 of the people who works in that facility.  I



                 don't understand what would necessitate giving



                 an HIV test to a juvenile who may have gotten



                 into an altercation in a juvenile facility.



                            You know, the shocking thing here



                 is that, you know, I've been here for four



                 years.  I really think what I need to do is to



                 have a class that we'll call HIV 101, and I'll



                 invite everybody to come -- my colleagues,



                 their staff members.



                            Because again, you know, this is



                 another -- this is one of those bills this



                 could be like a feces and urine bill.



                 Remember feces and urine day here in the State



                 Senate?  We have that every year, where, you



                 know, mentally ill, incarcerated people -- who



                 probably shouldn't be incarcerated, because











                                                        4296







                 they are mentally ill -- but if they throw



                 feces or urine, you know, they get punished



                 even more.



                            Mentally ill inmates who are



                 actually in the psych ward of a correctional



                 facility, if they throw feces and urine, they



                 get a bigger punishment, even though they're



                 already in a mental health facility.  Which



                 proves how absurd our positions are in this



                 body on the criminal justice system.



                            But this just, you know -- because



                 remember, aggravated assault is throwing feces



                 and urine.  Which, while, you know,



                 disgusting, is not a way that AIDS is spread.



                 In fact, I would urge my colleagues to look at



                 our own -- the state's Department of Health



                 regulation on what it is that causes



                 significant risk of contracting HIV, which



                 does not include exposure to urine, feces,



                 sputum, nasal secretions, saliva, sweat,



                 tears, vomit, et cetera.



                            So, you know, if you had a juvenile



                 who was in a juvenile facility who threw feces



                 and urine or if you had a mentally ill person



                 in an adult prison or a youth prison who did











                                                        4297







                 that, then they would be charged with, because



                 of what we do here, aggravated harassment.



                 And thereby, they would be forced to have an



                 HIV test.



                            Now remember, testing a person who



                 commits a crime of any sort does not in any



                 way make it -- or it is not proof-positive by



                 any sense of the word that the person who is



                 assaulted will become HIV-positive.  And



                 certainly if someone has feces or urine or



                 if -- you know, if a juvenile spits at one of



                 the people who's working in a juvenile



                 facility, they could be charged for harassment



                 or assault and be subjected to a test, even



                 though you don't get HIV from being spit at.



                 I mean, it's unpleasant, it's nasty, but it's



                 not how HIV is spread.



                            So I know that there are people



                 here who disagree about mandatory testing of



                 defendants in sexual assault.  And, you know,



                 I disagree with that.  But I understand why



                 people might think that.  But to mandatorily



                 test a kid who spits at someone?  Ridiculous.



                 Completely and totally and utterly absurd.



                            So, you know, maybe there's a bill











                                                        4298







                 here which you know people who disagree with



                 me could in good conscience vote for.  But



                 this bill is not that bill.  And again, I'm



                 constantly frustrated; you know, people throw



                 around, you know, criminalizing people with



                 HIV very lightly in this body.



                            And the other thing that people do



                 in this body is assuming that people who are



                 in like juvenile facilities have HIV as



                 compared to someone who lives down the block



                 from you.



                            I mean, if we're going the way of



                 mandatorily testing people here and there and



                 everywhere, for whatever reason we can slip



                 them in, well, let's do what they do in Cuba



                 and just test everybody.  When you go to the



                 doctor, everybody get tested.  But then let's



                 do that, and let's not just test certain



                 segments of the population because they're a



                 captive audience for it.



                            And let's not let this -- you know,



                 this is the New York State Senate.  I still, I



                 cannot believe that people are so stupid that



                 they think that you can get AIDS from being



                 spit at.











                                                        4299







                            You know, last year we had a bill



                 about you could get AIDS by, you know, having



                 sex in a taxicab, and everybody voted for it.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Mr. President.



                 Mr. President, would Senator Duane yield to a



                 question?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane, will you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR DUANE:    No, Mr.



                 President.



                            Last year we had a ridiculous bill



                 that assumed that taxi inspectors and parking



                 violation specialists got AIDS on the job.



                            You know, for your homework this



                 summer I would encourage all of you to take a



                 class on HIV and how it's transmitted.  And



                 then next year when we come back, maybe we



                 won't have any more of these stupid bills in



                 this body.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            I greatly appreciate Senator











                                                        4300







                 Duane's zeal for the cause that he so



                 admiringly and admirably does so well.  But I



                 was rising for purposes of asking him perhaps



                 to look at the section and do a little reading



                 in the bill.



                            Because if you read the bill,



                 Senator Duane, you will realize that by



                 definition, by definition, there's no way



                 under this bill that somebody spitting at



                 somebody could possibly be, in any way, shape



                 or form, the subject of an application dealing



                 with a question of whether someone is



                 HIV-positive.  It's black and white.  Take a



                 look at the definition section.  That would



                 have saved you some time and perhaps some



                 characterizations.  It's a relatively simple



                 thing to do.



                            Now, if I may, Mr. President, this



                 bill is not about HIV.  And I certainly -



                 when I say "about," not exclusively about HIV.



                 And I certainly can appreciate, as I said



                 earlier, Senator Duane's passion.  And he is



                 really to be credited for it.



                            This bill is about sexually



                 transmissible diseases, and it also includes











                                                        4301







                 HIV.  And if you look at the definition of



                 what's a transmissible disease, page 2 of the



                 bill, subsection D, it says transmissible



                 disease means the human immunodeficiency virus



                 (HIV) or any of its derivatives -- syphilis,



                 gonorrhea, lymphogranuloma venereum, herpes,



                 genital warts, or hepatitis and any of its



                 derivatives.



                            It goes on, in another section,



                 body fluid.  "Body fluid shall have" -- and



                 this is subsection F, same page -- "shall have



                 its ordinary meaning, except that where the

                 specified transmissible disease for which



                 testing is sought is human immunodeficiency



                 virus (HIV) or any of its derivatives, bodily



                 fluids shall mean blood or semen."  It shall



                 not have anything to do with saliva.



                            Why is aggravated harassment in



                 this bill?  We tried to be very selective



                 about the crimes that we included in this



                 bill.  Aggravated harassment in the second



                 degree would cover an instance where somebody



                 would bite somebody else.



                            That's not intended to deal with



                 somebody -- at least not intended to deal with











                                                        4302







                 somebody who might attempt or allege that



                 somehow or other by spitting on somebody it



                 might make them HIV-infected.



                            Why is aggravated harassment of an



                 employee by an inmate included?  That's



                 Section 240-32, also referred to in the bill.



                 Because that requires, as one of its elements,



                 that the aggravated harassment provides that



                 attempts to cause such employee to come into



                 contact with blood, seminal fluid, and also



                 urine or feces.



                            So the definitions, the language



                 don't comport themselves well with the



                 argument we just heard.  Not that, from



                 Senator Duane's vantage point, there is not



                 reason for him to state his position.  I



                 welcome that.  We've gone through this before.



                 But I'd be more comfortable, and I would like



                 to think the house would be more comfortable,



                 if we were all working off the same page.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  On the bill, really very











                                                        4303







                 briefly.



                            My concern here is not -- I share



                 some of Senator Duane's concerns.  What really



                 bothers me about this bill is I think



                 unintentionally it is, in fact, a bill that



                 will do harm to people.



                            The reason it will do harm to



                 people is that it suggests that if someone who



                 is a defendant or accused of -- say, someone



                 who is accused of assaulting you or committing



                 any of the other crimes set forth here, and



                 tests negative for HIV or tests positive for



                 HIV, that that tells you whether or not you've



                 got HIV.



                            And that is a message that



                 misleads, in a very dangerous way, the public.



                 If you think you've been exposed to HIV, you



                 get yourself tested.  I don't care how the



                 defendant tests.  You take prophylactic



                 measures.  If it tests negative, it doesn't



                 mean you're home free.  If you test positive,



                 it doesn't mean you've got it.



                            And I think we really need to



                 rethink the very, very harmful public health



                 message we are conveying in this.  There are











                                                        4304







                 measures now available to keep people alive



                 who have been exposed to HIV, who have HIV.



                 If you think you've been exposed, take those



                 measures, get yourself tested.  And the fact



                 of however a defendant tests should not affect



                 your thinking on those steps one bit.



                            I think we send a bad message with



                 this bill.  I urge everyone to vote no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            Senator Duane.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            The bill, in the definitions



                 section, says that a petitioner means a person



                 who alleges he or she was exposed to bodily



                 fluid of a defendant.  Now, bodily fluid does



                 not say blood or semen.  It says bodily fluid.



                            Now, section -- New York State



                 Department of Health Regulation 63.10 states



                 that there are three factors necessary to



                 create a significant risk of contracting or



                 transmitting HIV infection:  The presence of a



                 significant-risk body substance, a



                 circumstance which constitutes significant











                                                        4305







                 risk for transmitting or contracting HIV



                 infection and, three, the presence of an



                 infectious source and a noninfected person.



                            Significant-risk body substances



                 are blood, semen, vaginal secretions, breast



                 milk, tissue, and the following body fluids -



                 you know, brain fluid, peritoneal fluid,



                 pericardial fluid, et cetera.



                            Now, circumstances which constitute



                 a significant risk of transmitting or



                 contracting HIV infection are sexual



                 intercourse -- vaginal, anal, oral -- which



                 exposes a noninfected individual to blood,



                 semen, or vaginal secretions of an infected



                 individual; sharing of needles and other



                 paraphernalia used for preparing and injecting



                 drugs between infected and noninfected



                 individuals; the gestation, birthing or



                 breast-feeding of an infant when the mother is



                 infection with HIV; transmission or



                 transplantation of blood, organs, or other



                 tissues from an infected individual to an



                 uninfected individual, provided such blood,



                 organs or other tissues have not tested



                 conclusively for antibody or antigen and have











                                                        4306







                 not been rendered noninfective by heat or



                 chemical treatment.



                            Other circumstances are during



                 which a significant body risk substance other



                 than breast milk of an infected individual



                 contacts mucous membranes -- that is, eyes,



                 nose, mouth, nonintact skin, open wounds, skin



                 with a dermatitis condition, abraded areas, or



                 the vascular system of a noninfected person.



                            Such circumstances include but are



                 not limited to needle-stick or puncture-wound



                 injuries and direct saturation or permeation



                 of these body surfaces by the infectious body



                 substance.



                            Circumstances that involve



                 significant risk shall not, shall not include



                 exposure to urine, feces, sputum, nasal



                 secretions, saliva, sweat, tears or vomitus



                 that does not contain blood that is visible to



                 the naked eye; human bites where there is no



                 direct blood-to-blood or blood-to-mucous



                 membrane contact; exposure of intact skin to



                 blood or any other body substance; or



                 occupational settings where individuals use



                 scientifically accepted barrier techniques and











                                                        4307







                 preventive practices and circumstance which



                 would otherwise pose a significant risk if



                 such barriers are not breached and remain



                 intact.



                            Now, those are significant risk -



                 those are things that are not of significant



                 risk.



                            Now, I believe I have shown that



                 the petitioner means -- which the bill says



                 means a person who alleges he or she was



                 exposed to bodily fluid of a defendant



                 during -- or whatever.  Body fluid, that's



                 what it says.



                            Now, maybe I'm wrong.  I don't



                 think I am.  But I am -- but, you know, last



                 year we voted on two bills that said that a



                 taxi inspector could get HIV by inspecting a



                 taxi.  They didn't even have to like prove



                 that the taxicab was HIV-positive.  It was



                 just assumed that they were.



                            The same thing with a parking



                 violation specialist, which I guess means that



                 a parking meter could be HIV-positive.  And



                 if, you know, you fooled around with a parking



                 meter without using protection, you might get











                                                        4308







                 HIV infection.



                            Ridiculous, right?  But that's the



                 kind of bills we have here.  Last year when we



                 voted on those bills, everybody just sat here



                 like that made sense.  It was completely



                 ridiculous.



                            And then the group of people that



                 tried to move the bill along went after me,



                 the labor unions, like there was -- that it



                 was anti-labor that I was against it.  What I



                 was was anti-stupidity on how it is that HIV



                 is transmitted.



                            So in a body like this where people



                 are so stupid on how it is that HIV is



                 transmitted, call me crazy or call me, you



                 know, mentally impaired for being skeptical



                 about this.  But I stand by it.  A kid that



                 spits at someone in a juvenile facility under



                 this bill faces being mandatorily tested, and



                 that's wrong and ridiculous.  And I don't



                 know -- I don't know why it even came to the



                 floor in that form.



                            And, yes, it is true I am



                 passionate about this.  So maybe we could have



                 a chat about it before a bill like this comes











                                                        4309







                 to the floor.  You know, there aren't that



                 many people here listening to the debate, so



                 they're missing being educated on this.



                            But if the sponsor wants to chat



                 about this kind of legislation, I'm in the



                 book at home, I'm in 415 in the LOB, you can



                 come and talk with me, you can come talk to



                 the New York AIDS Coalition, you can come talk



                 to doctors, you could come -- I'll blow up the



                 New York State Department of Health



                 regulations on how it is that HIV is



                 transmitted.  We can study it together.  We



                 can see if there are problems with that, if we



                 think that that should be changed.



                            But until that time, you know, call



                 me a fool for resisting voting for bills which



                 potentially perpetrate myths on how HIV is



                 contracted and spread.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            With all due respect, we're



                 obviously talking over each other.  And for us



                 to be able to talk, we have to start on the











                                                        4310







                 same page.  And that page requires you to read



                 the bill.  It requires you to look at the



                 language of the bill.



                            And notwithstanding what you just



                 read, please take a look at the definition of



                 bodily fluid here and see how clearly it



                 eliminates anything, in the case of HIV,



                 anything but blood or semen.  I mean, it's as



                 plain as the nose on your face.



                            Now, let me suggest to you, if you



                 want to follow me through this bill a little



                 bit, and I'll just stick to the language here,



                 over on page 4, starting at line 31, it says



                 "In the case of an application pursuant to



                 paragraph B" -- and that's for the



                 preconviction testing -- "of subdivision 2 of



                 this section, the application must state that



                 the petitioner may have been exposed to bodily



                 fluid of the defendant during or as a



                 proximate result of the commission of or in



                 the course of flight from an offense described



                 in such paragraph, in a manner that may have



                 involved transmission of a specified



                 transmissible disease from the defendant to



                 the petitioner."











                                                        4311







                            If you then look at page 5,



                 subsection E, lines 40 through 49:  "For the



                 purpose of paragraph C of subdivision 5 of



                 this section, the petitioner has been exposed



                 to bodily fluid of the defendant when (1) an



                 element of the qualifying offense allegedly



                 committed by the defendant includes



                 intercourse or the deviate sexual intercourse



                 with the petitioner; or (2) the skin or mucous



                 membrane of the petitioner has been punctured



                 by a hypodermic instrument which was in the



                 possession, custody, or control of the



                 defendant; or (3) the defendant's semen,



                 vaginal secretions or any bodily substance



                 containing blood visible to the naked eye may



                 have come into contact with the mucous



                 membrane, ruptured or broken skin, or the



                 vascular system of the petitioner."



                            Now, let me just suggest to you



                 that I'm not the only one that has been



                 interested in this subject.  And you may



                 recall, although you didn't serve with him,



                 our prior governor, Governor Cuomo.  He had a



                 task force, and that task force in 1990 issued



                 a report.  And that task force recommended











                                                        4312







                 preconviction testing.



                            And let me read, if I may, from the



                 report submitting to the governor dated April



                 of 1990.  It reads as follows:  "While the



                 results alone may not be determinative, some



                 victims, after consultation with their



                 physician or an HIV counselor, may want to



                 begin immediate treatment with prophylactic



                 drugs.  Where the assailant's first test is



                 positive, the victim may want to begin



                 immediate drug therapy, even though she or he



                 might not have been actually infected.  Even



                 if the offender's first test turns out to be



                 negative, the victim may nevertheless want to



                 proceed with drug therapy, since she or he may



                 have been exposed.



                            "The question of how and when to



                 test the alleged sex offender remains.  The



                 task force considered and rejected waiting



                 until an accused is convicted.  While a



                 convicted defendant is no longer presumed



                 innocent and has fewer procedural rights,



                 there are two problems with waiting for



                 conviction.



                            "One, extensive delay is inevitable











                                                        4313







                 because it takes weeks for conviction by plea



                 and months for conviction by verdict.  And,



                 two, there are a number of acquittals and



                 dismissals where the defendant may have



                 nevertheless infected the victim.  In either



                 case conviction is not an adequate triggering



                 event.



                            "For similar reasons, indictment is



                 not a good marker.  Indictment can be delayed,



                 particularly when the defendant is at liberty.



                 Furthermore, a prosecutor may be unable to



                 obtain an indictment for reasons unrelated to



                 whether the accused is the true perpetrator.



                            "The task force therefore suggests



                 that an efficient process be developed in the



                 civil court system to allow a victim to obtain



                 court-ordered tests to obtain an alleged



                 offender's HIV status.  Access to this process



                 should be available to all victims regardless



                 of their ability to afford the costs of



                 testing or other court-related costs.  Under



                 this process, a victim might move for the



                 court order immediately after the rape or



                 sexual assault."



                            So certainly this is not something











                                                        4314







                 that I was the first one to visit.  There are



                 others.  And that task force, if I remember



                 correctly, was comprised of a number of



                 medical and health-related personnel -



                 physicians, registered nurses, psychologists,



                 and people otherwise similarly expert in the



                 area.



                            The bottom line here is that while



                 we've spent a lot of time talking about HIV,



                 this is not limited to HIV, nor is it intended



                 to be limited to HIV.



                            And as is so often the case, the



                 parameters of what we should be discussing can



                 be readily found within the bill.  And none of



                 us -- whether it's those who Senator Duane



                 condemns for perhaps being judgmental, and he



                 uses the term "stupid" -- none of us should be



                 so glib and so righteous, particularly when we



                 haven't taken the time to read the bill.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Mr. President.  Just one question, if the



                 Senator would yield.











                                                        4315







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland, do you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:



                 Senator Saland, I won't pretend that I've had



                 as much of an opportunity to view this bill as



                 you have had.  But I have attempted to read



                 the bill.  And my question really has to do



                 with the next stage.



                            You talk about the state paying for



                 the testing.  But when or if the victim -- to



                 use your definition of "victim" -- may be



                 found to be positive, what does the bill do in



                 terms of providing any kind of therapy for the



                 for this victim?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    The bill



                 provides first, initially, that the victim



                 must understand that he or she has to engage



                 in, as condition precedents, a number of



                 things.



                            And I would take you to page 4 of



                 the bill.  And I think in my prior comments I











                                                        4316







                 mentioned those conditions.  And you'll find



                 them beginning at line 38 and running through



                 line 52.



                            The bill provides in the concluding



                 several pages that the Commissioner of



                 Health -- and I will try and find you the



                 language.  Somewhere in the last several pages



                 of the bill, and I'm not finding it readily,



                 it provides that the commissioner will



                 promulgate the rules and regulations necessary



                 to effectuate the intent of this legislation.



                            The testing would be provided at



                 state expense.  The therapy, to the extent



                 that it would be covered by the Crime Victims



                 Compensation Board, would be available through



                 that source.



                            Therapy might be available through



                 insurance; therapy might be available through



                 employee benefits.  But this bill does not



                 provide for the therapy at state expense.  It



                 provides for the costs of the testing at state



                 expense.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I had











                                                        4317







                 said one question, and I will leave it at one



                 question.  Thank you.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank



                 you, Senator.



                            Senator Liz Krueger.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                 If the sponsor would yield for a question, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland, do you yield to a question?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Senator Saland.



                            So I've listened to this discussion



                 and debate, and it is a one-house bill.  So I



                 suppose my question -- I'm trying to make it



                 one question, again, because the time is



                 getting longer.



                            But I think there are real concerns



                 in this bill, both from a civil liberties



                 perspective of requiring testing prior to any











                                                        4318







                 confirmation of guilt by the courts.



                            I think there is a real question



                 here about whether in fact it is the



                 best-practice model of science to argue for



                 this kind of testing.  You referenced a report



                 by a task force by Governor Cuomo, and that



                 was from 1990.  And of course the science



                 around both testing and outcomes for sexually



                 transmitted diseases and other blood diseases,



                 particularly HIV, has advanced dramatically



                 between 1990 and the year 2002.



                            Because I'm looking at a reference



                 from a task force, an advisory council from



                 Governor Pataki, Governor Pataki's AIDS



                 Advisory Council.  And his public health



                 experts actually recommended that the testing



                 of defendants occur only if it provides



                 information of substantial medical benefit to



                 a victim.



                            And so for me, listening to this



                 debate and trying to read through the entire



                 bill as the debate was going on, it seems to



                 me that I would ask you whether you would



                 consider withdrawing the bill and going back



                 and looking at this in relationship to both











                                                        4319







                 civil liberties issues, what is the best



                 approach for testing.



                            I know if I was, God forbid, the



                 victim of a rape or other sexual attack, my



                 response would be I need myself to be tested.



                 It's not so much the concern of testing the



                 criminal.  Because in fact, as we know, tests



                 can have false negatives, false positives,



                 change over time on any disease.



                            My interest would be assuring that



                 I had the right to have myself tested, not



                 only immediately but on an ongoing period, to



                 assure that I did not have, as a result of



                 this attack, some additional problem to deal



                 with in the future.



                            And it seems to me that we do have



                 many open-ended questions here.  And I believe



                 that we're close to the end of session this



                 year, there's not an Assembly sponsor -- or



                 not in the materials that I have -- and I



                 think that issues on both sides have been



                 raised here.



                            And I would ask whether you would



                 reconsider some of the issues within your



                 bill, because I think we will be addressing











                                                        4320







                 this again past this session.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Let me see if I



                 can address some of your comments.



                            Number one, technically this is a



                 one-house bill.  There is a comparable bill



                 that has been introduced by Assemblyman



                 Kaufman.  And hopefully we will be able to



                 negotiate with him some agreement on this



                 legislation.



                            Secondly, while you may feel that



                 there are civil liberties questions -- and



                 that certainly is a subjective standard -



                 there will be nobody who will be able to tell



                 you there are any constitutional questions



                 with this.



                            Whether it's under the U.S. Supreme



                 Court case I referred to earlier, "Schmerber,"



                 whether it's the New York State Court of



                 Appeals case, "Matter of Abe," there is,



                 beyond any question, the ability in the state



                 of New York to test preconviction.  It's



                 absolute.  I will stand on that, I will stake



                 anything on that.



                            As long as there's probable cause



                 and the filing of the accusatory instrument -











                                                        4321







                 or the indictment constitutes that probable



                 cause.  That's what takes it out of the realm



                 of concern that you have.  There has to have



                 been the filing of an instrument.



                            There was one other thing, and I'm



                 trying -- I didn't write it down.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President, may I clarify?



                            I believe it was the recommendation



                 of Governor Pataki's AIDS Advisory Council.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    And I find that



                 very interesting.  And interestingly enough, I



                 find it interesting because I view this bill



                 as clearly a matter of choice, an issue which



                 I assume is valued rather dearly, more so on



                 your side of the aisle, perhaps, than on my



                 side of the aisle.  It's a matter of



                 empowerment.



                            What it says is after you've had



                 all of those conditions precedent, after



                 you've been advised of the fact that you have



                 to be tested, after you've been given a



                 scientific risk -- you've been told of the



                 risk assessment, after you have been told that



                 you must have undergone counseling, you have











                                                        4322







                 the ability, should you choose, to say:  Okay,



                 I guess I don't want to go any further.



                            But you also have the ability, as a



                 matter of choice, to say -- as did this



                 unidentified woman known as Jane in the piece



                 I read from the Daily News editorial -- you



                 have your choice to say:  Why shouldn't I be



                 able to test my assailant?  Why do I have to



                 wait for him to be convicted?



                            It's about choice.  It's about



                 empowerment.  And it's about people making



                 intelligent decisions based upon the use of



                 their own inherent abilities to reason.



                            There's no cookie-cutter approach.



                 It just says we will give you that option



                 where it's important to you.  And if in the



                 process of making that victim whole or



                 attempting, if you can ever make that victim



                 whole, bringing that victim back to someplace



                 close to where she or he may have been before



                 being violently, violently assaulted, this



                 seems to me to respect that choice, to give



                 that sense of empowerment.



                            There are no civil liberties



                 questions that could be resolved negatively.











                                                        4323







                 And it basically says, after you've been



                 counseled and you know the state of the



                 science, if that's what you want to do, by



                 God, you should be permitted to do that.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Paterson.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 if Senator Saland would yield for a question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland, do you yield for a question?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Senator, were



                 you referring to Governor Cuomo or Governor



                 Pataki's advisory committee -



                            SENATOR SALAND:    If I remember



                 correctly, 1990 predates Governor Pataki.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    An attempt at



                 humor, Senator.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes, Senator.



                 That's the way I remember it.



                            And that particular task force at











                                                        4324







                 that time -- first of all, it took, for a



                 person to theoretically have the virus from



                 six to nine months to be diagnosed in the



                 first place.  They really didn't know very



                 much about P24 antigens.  The only way they



                 really measured was by a T-cell count.  It was



                 far antiquated to the standards that are used



                 today.



                            But the one thing that the task



                 force did apparently say, according to the



                 New York State Pride Agenda, is the fact that



                 there would be a qualifying benefit to the



                 victim that would be established before we



                 would realize the petition.



                            And my question is, what would be



                 the benefit to a victim to have the alleged



                 perpetrator take a test?  What would be the



                 benefit to the victim?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    I would say that



                 that's very subjective.  For some victims,



                 they may decide, as I've said several times



                 today, after they've gone through all the



                 conditions precedent, they may decide that for



                 them there's no benefit.



                            Other victims may believe, and very











                                                        4325







                 much so, whether it be something that's



                 physical, whether it's emotional, whether it's



                 psychological, they may believe that it's



                 critical for their well-being and their, as I



                 said earlier, return to as close to their



                 preassault status, that they have that test.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Paterson.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 if the Senator would continue to yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Now, Senator,



                 in Section F of subdivision 1 of the bill you



                 refer to the actual definitions of what bodily



                 fluids are.  But it's actually in Section E



                 where you talk about what the actual



                 qualifying offenses are that would mandate



                 that somebody be tested because they were



                 either convicted or charged with an actual



                 offense.











                                                        4326







                            Now, you seemed to make a



                 connection in Section C earlier, where you



                 talk about the actual bodily fluids and what



                 the actual diseases are that would come from



                 those particular bodily fluids.  My question



                 to you is, why wouldn't you take the whole



                 issue of HIV and the AIDS virus out of this



                 bill?



                            Because if you want to test for



                 bodily fluids and feces and other sexually



                 transmittable and also other transmittable



                 diseases that don't involve sex, you're



                 talking about two different types of things.



                            So I can start to see where some of



                 anxiety comes from when what we really have



                 here is an omnibus mandatory testing bill,



                 when we clearly have two different types of



                 results that can occur.



                            One is if someone spits on someone



                 or someone throws something at someone, that



                 they might in a sense be at risk for a certain



                 type of disease.  The other would be those



                 precursors to HIV, which are an entirely



                 different type of interaction.



                            So what I'm saying, since they're











                                                        4327







                 so different, so that there be not any



                 confusion -- and I think some of the anxiety



                 that you have heard today comes from a



                 frustration with the fact that twelve years



                 after the report of Governor Cuomo's task



                 force in 1990, you're still hearing people



                 push it all together and making it all seem as



                 if, if you pass by and touch somebody, that



                 they could receive HIV.



                            HIV is obviously the most dangerous



                 of the infections that you talk about.  It's



                 obviously the one that's the most publicized.



                 It's also the one that's created the greatest



                 stigma for people that are afflicted by it.



                            And so I hope you would



                 understand -- and this is the reason why I



                 asked that you might separate all this, so



                 that in addition to empowering the victim such



                 that they might want to find out what the



                 alleged perpetrator's medical status is, you



                 might also be adding some clarity to the



                 medical evidence that's really long-held at



                 this point but seems to fall back into that



                 aura of confusion as the result of the way -



                 the composition of the bill itself.











                                                        4328







                            SENATOR SALAND:    I think I



                 understand the question.  Let me -



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    I'll state the



                 question in a sentence.  Why don't you write



                 two bills?



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Let me suggest



                 to you that what would be the -- there would



                 be no difference if I wrote two bills.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Excuse



                 me.



                            Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    If I may



                 interrupt the debate, I'd ask that the last



                 section be read and a roll call be called so



                 that Senator Farley may cast his vote.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you for



                 your courtesy, Senator Saland, Senator



                 Paterson.











                                                        4329







                            I vote aye.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Withdraw the



                 roll call, please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Farley will be recorded in the affirmative.



                            Withdraw the roll call.



                            Senator Saland.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Let me just



                 hopefully clear up some, at the very least,



                 misconceptions.  I find it hard to believe



                 there's anybody within the sound of my voice



                 who, notwithstanding some of your comments,



                 could possibly believe that HIV could be



                 contracted by casually being touched by



                 somebody or some mere contact.



                            Let me also say to you that it



                 would really be of little or no difference, it



                 would just be a variation on a theme were I to



                 divide this bill.  We would go through this



                 very same exercise all over again.



                            I understand, as I said earlier,



                 the passion that this particular topic evokes.



                 This is a bill that's intended to be an



                 omnibus bill.  This is a bill that's intended



                 to be a victim's rights bill.  This is a bill











                                                        4330







                 which takes great pains to make sure that any



                 victim is aware that he or she will not get



                 any quick or easy answer regardless of which



                 avenue that person may pursue.



                            It is, as I said earlier, an effort



                 to try and secure for the victim, under her or



                 his own individual decision-making process,



                 the ability to secure a test, the ability to



                 learn whether in fact the court will permit



                 the test by making the application and then to



                 have whomever his or her assailant may be



                 tested.



                            Will that provide the medical



                 guarantee that will ensure a resolution?  I



                 don't think anybody here can say that.  But if



                 it's important to 10 percent of the victims -



                 and there's, what, 4600 reported rapes and



                 sexual assaults in this state for the last



                 reporting year?  If 10 percent of them, if



                 2 percent of them, if 1 percent of them



                 believe that that's important and it has value



                 to them, then I say I don't have one iota of



                 problem with that.



                            Because, quite candidly, my



                 sympathies and my desire to assist lies with











                                                        4331







                 the victims.  The individual who's the



                 assailant has been indicted, has stood accused



                 under some accusatory instrument.  There's the



                 probable cause threshold.  I'm not saying



                 indiscriminately, I'm saying there has to be a



                 threshold that's crossed.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 on the bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Paterson, on the bill.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    The reason I



                 think the bill should be divided is because of



                 the debate we've heard today, because of the



                 confusion and the inability of this bill to



                 address these issues.



                            Senator Saland said that he thought



                 it would be ridiculous for anyone to think



                 that being touched by a person with HIV could



                 create an infection.  In 1984, which was not



                 that long ago, we had a case in the Queens



                 DA's office.  I was standing right there, we



                 brought a defendant into the courtroom, the



                 court officers would not touch them.



                            Now, that was a belief at that



                 particular time.  It's taken a while to











                                                        4332







                 educate the public to the actual ways in which



                 a person can become infected with HIV.  It's



                 my opinion that there are a number of people



                 who really do believe what Senator Duane was



                 trying to dissuade in his comments earlier,



                 which is that you would be able to get it from



                 tears or from saliva or from feces or urine or



                 some other form that actually is not a



                 promulgator of the HIV virus.



                            And that's the reason I think that



                 for clarity's sake that these issues be



                 defined separately in a separate bill, because



                 of the stigma that exists in our society.



                            On the issue of the benefit to the



                 victim, I don't know of any measurable medical



                 benefit to the victim.  And I think there's a



                 mountain of evidence to the contrary that it



                 would be good to suggest, to codify, or in any



                 way to allow any person who thinks they were a



                 victim of an act that would cause the HIV



                 virus to even think about having the alleged



                 perpetrator take the test, for the simple



                 reason that in many cases -- and there is



                 substantial research to prove this -- the



                 victim was measured to have received the HIV











                                                        4333







                 virus prior to the perpetrator.



                            So the only thing we would be



                 giving the victim is a pyrrhic victory.  And



                 it would really be a shock to those



                 individuals who were already under a great



                 deal of stress and anxiety to find out later



                 on that they were testing an individual who



                 tested negative for HIV at a time when they



                 were HIV-positive and should have been



                 receiving immediate treatment.



                            This is not really a case of moral



                 victories or empowerment.  This is a very



                 serious life-threatening illness that a person



                 could contract.  And I don't think that anyone



                 affiliated with the medical profession, with



                 the psychological profession, or any



                 legislator should be doing anything to



                 contribute to it.



                            If it were just a situation of



                 allowing people to speak at the phase of a



                 trial where there's a sentencing or something



                 that does actually create an issue of



                 empowerment or a moral victory, or perhaps



                 extending the statute of limitations to create



                 an opportunity for victims of perhaps child











                                                        4334







                 sexual abuse as adults to sue the perpetrator,



                 those, I think, are moral victories.



                            But here we're talking about



                 allowing an individual to for some reason be



                 soothed in feeling that there would be some



                 way to actually make the perpetrator create



                 evidence where the perpetrator cannot.



                            As Senator Schneiderman said



                 earlier, the only way to find out whether or



                 not there is possible harm to the victim is



                 for the victim to be tested.  And I think any



                 other information to the contrary really



                 diminishes the importance of the actual test.



                            And I'm not even worried about



                 whether the perpetrator is indicted or



                 convicted.  This is a case of science.  This



                 is a case of quality of health care.  And it's



                 the only conclusion I think that you can come



                 to when the victim feels that his or her life



                 is at stake.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any



                 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?



                            Debate is closed.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This











                                                        4335







                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Slow roll



                 call, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    More



                 than five Senators have arisen.  The Secretary



                 will ring the bells.



                            The Secretary will call the roll.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.



                            SENATOR ALESI:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Andrews.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bonacic.



                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Brown,



                 excused.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            (Senator Bruno was indicated as



                 voting in the affirmative.)











                                                        4336







                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Connor.



                            (Senator Connor was indicated as



                 voting in the negative.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 Dollinger.



                            SENATOR DOLLINGER:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Duane.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Duane, to explain his vote.



                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            I have to say that I have had many



                 advocates come and ask for free rape kits and



                 prophylactics for those who have been



                 victimized by sexual assault.  I've never had



                 a victim come to me and say that they wanted



                 the testing of the defendant.



                            I was listening to Senator Saland



                 when he said that, you know, if there's



                 1 percent of the victims that would want this



                 legislation to pass, well, then, they should



                 have that choice.  But I don't understand why











                                                        4337







                 it is that we should create state policy based



                 on the 1 percent of victims who have erroneous



                 information.  I mean, more than 1 percent of



                 the people of the State of New York want SONDA



                 to be passed, and apparently that hasn't been



                 enough to change state policy.



                            Also, you know, this bill obviously



                 is very important.  I don't understand why it



                 came out of Rules.  If this bill has been



                 cooking for so long, why didn't it go through



                 the regular committee route?  I must have



                 missed the hearing on this bill.  I think that



                 would have been a good place to have hashed



                 this out.



                            And I also want to hark back to the



                 days of 1989.  That was when Ricky Ray and his



                 brothers and their family were having their



                 trailers burned down in a rural area in



                 another state.  That was a different time.



                            So that we can move forward on what



                 our AIDS policies are and what our criminal



                 justice policies should be, I urge my



                 colleagues to vote no, and I'll be voting no,



                 Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator











                                                        4338







                 Duane will be recorded in the negative.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Espada.



                            SENATOR ESPADA:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Farley



                 voting in the affirmative earlier.



                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.



                            SENATOR HANNON:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hevesi.



                            SENATOR HEVESI:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hoffmann.



                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator L.



                 Krueger.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator











                                                        4339







                 Liz Krueger, to explain her vote.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            I raised some issues earlier.  I



                 will be voting no on this bill.  I think that,



                 while it has pieces in it that are important,



                 it is overall not a bill that I can support.



                            But I want to thank Senator Duane



                 for so many things he educated us on today.



                 And in his last comments when he was speaking



                 on the bill, he reminded me of other things



                 that I think are equally important that we



                 have failed to do in this house.



                            And given the concern of Senator



                 Saland on the importance of addressing



                 victims' rights, I would argue that we need to



                 pass, before we leave session this year, the



                 bills that would guarantee a woman the right



                 to emergency contraception in emergency rooms



                 if she's been raped, the right of rape victims



                 throughout the state of New York to have rape



                 kits paid for so that DNA cross-tests can be



                 done.  They are piling up in warehouses



                 throughout this state.



                            And that we also need to address











                                                        4340







                 the fact that we still require rape victims in



                 hospitals to fill out cumbersome paperwork at



                 the time of their rape in order for the



                 hospital to be get reimbursement for the care



                 that they are delivering.  And that there are



                 serious issues for victims of sexual crimes



                 that go unaddressed in this house.



                            And so I would hope, based on the



                 education we all got today about victims'



                 rights and the importance of the State Senate



                 addressing these concerns, that we might be



                 passing these bills this year before we end



                 our session.



                            And I will vote no on this.  Thank



                 you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Liz Krueger will be recorded in the negative.



                            The Secretary will continue to call



                 the roll.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator C.



                 Kruger.



                            SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kuhl.



                            SENATOR KUHL:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lachman.











                                                        4341







                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lack.



                            SENATOR LACK:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Larkin.



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle.



                            SENATOR LAVALLE:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Leibell.



                            SENATOR LEIBELL:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maltese.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Marchi.



                            SENATOR MARCHI:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maziarz.



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator McGee.



                            SENATOR McGEE:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Meier.



                            SENATOR MEIER:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez.











                                                        4342







                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nozzolio.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Onorato,



                 excused.



                            Senator Oppenheimer.



                            SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan.



                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Paterson.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Rath.



                            SENATOR RATH:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Saland.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Sampson.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Santiago.



                            SENATOR SANTIAGO:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator











                                                        4343







                 Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward.



                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Skelos.



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator A. Smith.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator M. Smith.



                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Spano.



                            SENATOR SPANO:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 Stachowski.



                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stafford.



                            SENATOR STAFFORD:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    No.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Trunzo.



                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Velella.



                            SENATOR VELELLA:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Volker.



                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Yes.











                                                        4344







                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Wright.



                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Aye.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will call the absentees.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Andrews.



                            SENATOR ANDREWS:    Nay.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Balboni.



                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gentile.



                            SENATOR GENTILE:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Gonzalez.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson, to explain her vote.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Mr. President.



                            To Senator Saland, this is -- in



                 continuing to read this bill, I have a sense,











                                                        4345







                 a better sense of what I think the bill's



                 intent is.  But I, like many of my colleagues,



                 believe that this is not the way to go about



                 it.



                            I have some great concerns when we



                 look at what we call transmittable diseases



                 and then suddenly stick HIV into the same



                 category with other diseases that might in



                 fact be transmittable by casual contact.  HIV



                 is not a casual-contact disease.



                            And it becomes very important -



                 and it may sound like we're being casual or



                 flip when we say that we need to be



                 better-educated, but we do.  It's a sad state



                 of affairs that we believe that the ability to



                 transmit such a horrendous disease can be so



                 easily transmitted.  It cannot.



                            What this bill attempts to do I



                 think is the reverse of what our concerns



                 should be.  As we begin to talk about how do



                 we ensure that people become tested and



                 receive treatment quickly and immediately,



                 this is not the way to go about doing that.



                            And I would hope that Senator



                 Saland would take this opportunity to rethink











                                                        4346







                 some of the concerns that have been raised and



                 asked for.  And I know that he would get the



                 help and support of people on this side of the



                 aisle who have a little bit more experience



                 than some of the people on the other side of



                 the aisle just in the practice.  So that when



                 we do a bill such as this, it will not appear



                 that one side of this house is insensitive to



                 victims.



                            And I think that we get ourselves



                 caught too often in the belief that we are



                 soft on crime and that we soft-pedal issues,



                 when the real intent of the bill completely



                 escapes some of the people that sit in this



                 chamber.



                            So, Mr. President, I will be voting



                 no on this bill.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the



                 negative.



                            The Secretary will continue to call



                 the roll.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lachman.











                                                        4347







                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.



                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Yes.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maltese.



                            SENATOR MALTESE:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Mendez.



                            (No response.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nozzolio.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Aye.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Sampson.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will announce the results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.  Nays,



                 13.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.



                 President, I would like unanimous consent to



                 be recorded in the negative on Calendars 607



                 and 1054.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without



                 objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded



                 in the negative on Calendars 607 and 1054.











                                                        4348







                            Senator Stavisky.



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. President,



                 I would appreciate unanimous consent to be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1054.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without



                 objection, Senator Stavisky will be recorded



                 in the negative on Calendar 1054.



                            Senator Hassell-Thompson.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Mr. President.  I would like to have



                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the



                 negative on Calendar 307 and Calendar 1054.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without



                 objection, Senator Hassell-Thompson will be



                 recorded in the negative on Calendars 307 and



                 1054.



                            Senator Libous.



                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            On behalf of Senator Stafford, Mr.



                 President, on page 36 I offer the following



                 amendments to Calendar Number 814, Senate



                 Print 3820B, and ask that said bill retain its



                 place on the Third Reading Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The











                                                        4349







                 amendments are received and adopted, and the



                 bill will retain its place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,



                 on behalf of Senator Marcellino, on page 33 I



                 offer the following amendments to Calendar



                 Number 762, Senate Print 6210, and ask that



                 the bill retain its place on the Third Reading



                 Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted, and the



                 bill will retain its place on the Third



                 Reading Calendar.



                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    And, Mr.



                 President, on behalf of Senator Skelos I wish



                 to call up his bill, Print Number 425,



                 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at



                 the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 158, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 425, an



                 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Libous.











                                                        4350







                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I now move to reconsider the vote



                 by which this bill was passed.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll on reconsideration.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President, I



                 now pass up the following amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 amendments are received and adopted.



                            Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  Is there any other housekeeping at



                 the desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    No, no



                 other housekeeping, Senator.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    For the



                 information of the members, there will be an



                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in



                 the Majority Conference Room, Room 332.



                            And the Senate will stand at ease.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There



                 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules



                 Committee.











                                                        4351







                            Senator Paterson.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,



                 following the Rules Committee there will be a



                 meeting of the Minority in the Minority



                 Conference Room.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All



                 right.  Senator Paterson, we're going to



                 receive the report.  I assume you mean after



                 session.



                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Yes.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Is that



                 correct, Senator Paterson?  Conference of the



                 Minority immediately following session.



                            The Senate will stand at ease



                 pending the report of the Rules Committee.



                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at



                 ease at 5:15 p.m.)



                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened



                 at 5:25 p.m.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  Could we return to reports of



                 standing committees.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports











                                                        4352







                 of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,



                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the



                 following bills:



                            Senate Print 417B, by Senator



                 Skelos, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure



                 Law;



                            2714, by Senator Padavan, an act to



                 amend the Executive Law;



                            3078, by Senator McGee, an act to



                 amend the New York State Urban Development



                 Corporation Act;



                            3920, by Senator Stafford, an act



                 to amend the Public Officers Law;



                            3927, by Senator Stafford, an act



                 to amend the Public Officers Law;



                            3928, by Senator Stafford, an act



                 to amend the Public Officers Law;



                            4525A, by Senator Nozzolio, an act



                 to amend the Correction Law;



                            4925, by Senator DeFrancisco, an



                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;



                            5206A, by Senator Wright, an act to



                 amend the Public Service Law;











                                                        4353







                            5842A, by Senator Velella, an act



                 to amend the Retirement and Social Security



                 Law;



                            6121, by Senator Maltese, an act to



                 amend the Education Law;



                            6508, by Senator Lack, an act to



                 amend the Judiciary Law;



                            6951, by Senator Velella, an act to



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            6966A, by Senator Farley, an act to



                 amend the Public Officers Law;



                            7157, by Senator DeFrancisco, an



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;



                            7334B, by Senator Velella, an act



                 to amend the Retirement and Social Security



                 Law;



                            7445, by Senator Nozzolio, an act



                 to amend the Town Law;



                            And Senate Print 7451, by Senator



                 Wright, an act in relation to authorizing the



                 town of Hannibal.



                            All bills ordered direct to third



                 reading.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Morahan.











                                                        4354







                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Move to accept



                 the report of the Rules Committee, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All



                 those in favor of accepting the report of the



                 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.



                            Senator Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  There being no other business in



                 front of the Senate, we move to adjourn until



                 June 11th, at 3:00 p.m.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Ada Smith.



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  There will be an immediate



                 conference of the Senate Minority in the



                 Minority Conference Room.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:



                 Immediate conference of the Senate Minority in











                                                        4355







                 the Minority Conference Room.



                            On motion, the Senate stands



                 adjourned until Tuesday, June 11th, at



                 3:00 p.m.



                            (Whereupon, at 5:29 p.m., the



                 Senate adjourned.)