Regular Session - January 14, 2003

    



 

                                                        64







                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE











                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD



















                             ALBANY, NEW YORK



                             January 14, 2003



                                12:35 p.m.











                              REGULAR SESSION















            SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President



            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary



































                                                        65







                           P R O C E E D I N G S



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Senate will come to order.



                            May I ask everyone to please rise



                 and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the



                 Flag.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited



                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    In the



                 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a



                 moment of silence.



                            (Whereupon, the assemblage



                 respected a moment of silence.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading



                 of the Journal.



                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,



                 Monday, January 13, the Senate met pursuant to



                 adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday,



                 January 11, was read and approved.  On motion,



                 Senate adjourned.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without



                 objection, the Journal stands approved as



                 read.



                            Presentation of petitions.



                            Messages from the Assembly.











                                                        66







                            Messages from the Governor.



                            Reports of standing committees.



                            Reports of select committees.



                            Communications and reports from



                 state officers.



                            Motions and resolutions.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 I'd like to hand up the following leadership



                 positions and ask that they be entered into



                 the Journal.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    They



                 will be entered in the Journal.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    And I would also



                 hand up the following Majority committee



                 assignments and ask that they be entered in



                 the Journal.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 committee assignments will be entered in the



                 Journal.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    And, Mr.



                 President, in consultation with Senator



                 Paterson, the Minority Leader, we hand up the











                                                        67







                 following Minority leadership positions and



                 ask that they be entered into the Journal.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    They



                 will be entered in the Journal.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, in



                 consultation with Senator Paterson, the



                 Minority Leader, we hand up the Minority



                 committee assignments and ask that they also



                 be entered into the Journal.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    They



                 will be entered in the Journal also.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 can we at this time adopt the Resolution



                 Calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All



                 those in favor of adopting the Resolution



                 Calendar signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those



                 opposed, nay.











                                                        68







                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Resolution Calendar is adopted.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 can we at this time take up the



                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read the noncontroversial



                 calendar.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 1,



                 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and



                 Assembly, proposing amendments to Article 7 of



                 the --



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay it



                 aside.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 2, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 2, an



                 act to amend the State Finance Law --



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Lay it aside,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the











                                                        69







                 bill aside.



                            Senator Bruno, that completes the



                 noncontroversial calendar.



                            Senator Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 can we at this time take up the controversial



                 reading of the calendar.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read the controversial



                 calendar.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 1, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 1,



                 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and



                 Assembly proposing amendments to --



                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 what we have before us in Senate 1 is to



                 prioritize what we feel here in the Majority,



                 as we present Senate 1, which is a budget



                 reform package.  It's the first of two bills.



                 The second bill will deal with the mechanics



                 of putting a budget in place if we fail to do











                                                        70







                 an on-time budget.



                            This is a priority here in this



                 house.  It's a priority for the people of this



                 state.  And what you will see in Senate 1 are



                 the constitutional requirements to change the



                 budget process here in this state.



                            And I would urge my colleagues to



                 participate and to vote in favor.  Because



                 when we do Senate 1 and 2, we will be putting



                 in place a fail-safe system to get a budget in



                 place for the people of this state.



                            I don't have to tell you that we



                 have had a late budget 18 years in a row.



                 Eighteen years in a row the people of this



                 state have waited until early August, some



                 years, to have a budget.  That is



                 unacceptable.  We are looking at huge



                 deficits, ten to twelve billion dollars



                 combined, 2003 and 2004.  And we as elected



                 officials have a responsibility to deal with



                 getting the budget in place.



                            We in the Senate have passed budget



                 reform before.  You have joined -- both sides



                 of the aisle have joined in budget reform in



                 this house.  We've sent the budget reform











                                                        71







                 packages to the Assembly.  They have never



                 acted on a substantial budget reform package.



                            This is our number-one priority.



                 It's our number-two priority.  There are a lot



                 of other issues that we have to deal with, but



                 this is number one, to start the process to



                 get an on-time budget in place and, if we can,



                 a budget.



                            The mechanics are these.  The



                 budget starts -- the process starts October.



                 We ask that the state agencies, when they



                 submit budget requests to the Governor, they



                 also submit them to the Senate and to the



                 Assembly.  That kick-starts the process a



                 couple of months early.



                            And the next thing that normally



                 happens, we have to deal with Medicaid and



                 what the Medicaid judgments are, the costs,



                 and school aid.  Those are the two largest



                 parts of the budget.  They comprise about



                 $45 billion worth of a $90 billion budget.  So



                 we're asking in October that we get our arms



                 around, collectively, those substantial items.



                 We've got revenue that we start with, medical



                 expenses, and school aid.











                                                        72







                            And then we ask the Governor to



                 move his time frame from submitting a budget



                 February 1st to January 15th.  And we ask the



                 Governor not to take a 30-day amendment period



                 but a 15-day amendment period so that by the



                 end of January the Legislature has the



                 Governor's budget, the committees start



                 meeting, we do all the public hearings,



                 everything that normally takes place.



                            And the next operative thing would



                 be -- and this is different -- by March 1st we



                 have trouble agreeing on revenues, the



                 Assembly, the Governor, and the Senate.  In



                 this reform package, we will mandate that if



                 we can't agree by March 1st, we ask the



                 Comptroller of this state, who is elected by



                 the majority of the people in this state, to



                 mandate a revenue number.  And that would



                 happen by March 5th.



                            We then take that number, meet in



                 conference committees -- which we've all



                 agreed, the Assembly and the Senate, to do --



                 you meet in public discussion on what is



                 available for us to budget, starting



                 March 15th.  We publicly discuss, come to an











                                                        73







                 agreement on what's avail.  Then those avails



                 get assigned to the various conference



                 committees that will meet in public and



                 discuss the respective issues -- the Assembly,



                 the Senate, with most of the members in the



                 Legislature participating in that process.



                            If we can't agree in that public



                 process -- this is different -- the fiscal



                 year would move to May 1st.  If by May 1st we



                 can't come to an agreement between the two



                 houses, last year's budget becomes the



                 operative budget for the people of this state.



                            We have a budget; it will be last



                 year's budget.  We negotiated last year's



                 budget between the two houses and the



                 Governor, so that would become the budget of



                 the people in this state until the Legislature



                 agrees on a budget.  And that, when passed and



                 signed by the Governor, replaces the budget



                 that gets put in place automatically by this



                 reform package.



                            The other caveat would be that in a



                 year like this, we have an $89.6 billion



                 budget.  The revenues aren't expected to be



                 there; we're going to be about $10 billion











                                                        74







                 short.  This reform package takes that into



                 consideration, allows the Governor, through



                 his executive power, to make adjustments to



                 match the revenue with the expenditures,



                 through the state agencies and as he sees it



                 appropriately.



                            You all know that constitutionally



                 we have to have a balanced budget in this



                 state.  That's how it gets balanced.



                            We also create a fiscal



                 stabilization reserve fund where 5 percent of



                 the revenues that flow, excluding bonding,



                 excluding federal money, will go into a



                 reserve for contingencies for emergencies.  If



                 we had that in place now, we'd have about



                 $2.7 billion instead of about $700 million in



                 reserve.



                            This also puts into place a fiscal



                 responsibility program so that we project out



                 the ramifications of what we do for three



                 years.



                            So it's very comprehensive.  It's



                 well-thought-out.  It's thought out because we



                 first passed a package like this in '85, 1985.



                 Seventeen years ago, this chamber, with











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                 bipartisan support, passed a budget reform



                 package.



                            So those are the highlights.  There



                 may be differences of opinion on what, when,



                 how.  We welcome those.  This is a package



                 that's been put together.  This would work.  I



                 urge my colleagues here in this chamber to



                 support it.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Liz Krueger.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                 If the sponsor would yield for a question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you yield to a question?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Senator Bruno, Mr. President.



                            I certainly support budget reform.



                 I think that everyone in this Legislature



                 recognizes that what we have been doing and



                 where we have been going is not getting us



                 where we need to be.  And I agree with Senator











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                 Bruno that particularly in a year where we're



                 facing such an extreme fiscal crisis, the



                 importance of reevaluating how we have been



                 approaching our budget is time -- it is the



                 right time to be moving forward.



                            But I have some questions, so I



                 think it's more than one question, about this



                 specific proposal.  One, I have a concern that



                 under this model the Legislature is in fact



                 simply taking itself out of the process and



                 giving the Governor almost exclusive authority



                 to move forward with an extender of the



                 previous year's budget.



                            Because rather than increasing the



                 incentive for us to get a budget done on time,



                 which I agree is critically important, we are



                 actually putting ourselves potentially in a



                 default position where, because we don't get



                 it done on time, we remove ourselves from the



                 process and it simply becomes the authority of



                 the Executive branch only to move forward with



                 the budget.



                            So I suppose my question is how do



                 we address the fact that we, yes, need to have



                 a balanced budget on time, but I don't think











                                                        77







                 that this house or our colleagues in the



                 Assembly want to remove ourselves from the



                 process, and I don't think that's a good model



                 for moving forward with budget reform.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you,



                 Senator.  And thanks for your support for the



                 concept of budget reform and for your



                 recognition that it's timely and necessary.



                 Thank you.



                            We only take ourselves out of the



                 process legislatively if we fail to do a



                 budget by May 1st.  And the incentive is there



                 for us to do a budget by May 1st for those



                 very reasons that you point out.  You're



                 absolutely right.  But if the Governor is



                 activated, we can, on May 3rd, on May 4th, on



                 May 5th -- any time -- collectively put our



                 acts together and send the Governor a budget.



                 There's no prohibition.



                            So, Senator Krueger, we don't take



                 ourselves out of the process, we simply create



                 a date certain that a budget will go in place



                 if we're able to agree by May 1st.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President, if the sponsor would continue to











                                                        78







                 yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President and Senator Bruno.



                            So I think we do agree we want to



                 move forward with a timely budget, an



                 equitable budget.  And under your analysis, we



                 wouldn't be taking ourselves out of the



                 process because the pressure would be on us to



                 make sure that we stayed in the process.



                            You also tie in -- I know this is a



                 very complex bill, so I'll try to keep it



                 coherent.  And you were very helpful in



                 explaining all the details.  You propose that



                 the State Comptroller have an obligation by a



                 certain date to set revenues if we have not



                 done so.  And certainly that has been part of



                 the delay process for us year in and year out,



                 what are the revenues that we have to work



                 with.











                                                        79







                            I'm curious:  Instead of the idea



                 of the Comptroller signing off, or in



                 supplement to, would you imagine a model where



                 we use something such as the Congressional



                 Budget Office, or what's been proposed in the



                 Assembly bill, an independent budget office to



                 assist us in making sure that we have



                 nonpartisan, outside analysis of our revenue



                 situation, so that we in fact are in good



                 stead to move forward with the budget timely?



                 And would you imagine tying that into this



                 constitutional amendment?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, I can



                 imagine that.  And that's as good a suggestion



                 as using the Comptroller.



                            Frankly, with the politics of the



                 state, we thought that the Comptroller, being



                 the Comptroller, elected by all the people



                 here in the state -- the other group that you



                 mention wouldn't be elected by the people of



                 this state, not a representative of the people



                 of this state.  So we thought it would be more



                 operative to go with the Comptroller.  But



                 that's as good a suggestion as any.  And, you



                 know, that became part of.











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                            It's more cumbersome, it's more



                 bureaucratic, it would be more expensive.  As



                 my colleagues are pointing out, we already pay



                 the Comptroller.  And, you know, he has all



                 the information before him that he would need.



                 And if he saw fit to reach out and consult



                 with experts such as you describe, he'd be



                 free to do that.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President, if the sponsor would continue to



                 yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            Senator Bruno, it sounds like we're



                 actually agreeing on many points here today,



                 including your last reference of the



                 importance of ensuring that the people of



                 New York, the people who elect us, have



                 participation in this process, have an











                                                        81







                 opportunity to find out what is going into the



                 budget proposal so that they have an



                 opportunity to address us, their elected



                 officials, to ensure that we are taking into



                 account the needs of our communities when



                 we're evaluating our budget.



                            And in that light, I was curious



                 why we don't include in budget reform, or the



                 proposal before us, the idea that we actually



                 have to provide specific details in a more



                 clarified way in the context of budget reform.



                            There's been much discussion in the



                 state of New York that budget reform should



                 include a more detailed line-by-line budget



                 analysis of expenditures and revenues in



                 advance that is made available to the public,



                 that gives the public the opportunity to feed



                 in their concerns, their analysis.  And also



                 that we have formal budget conference



                 committees that actually, piece by piece, over



                 a reasonable period of time -- but certainly



                 more than the one day we traditionally have



                 given to the budget -- ensure that we have an



                 opportunity to discuss as a house, with our



                 colleagues in the Assembly, and with the











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                 public the details of the budget.



                            So since we do seem to be in



                 agreement on so many things here today, I was



                 wondering whether I could also make the



                 recommendation that this kind of resolution



                 going forward, or technically a constitutional



                 amendment, would include obligations for



                 timelines for dual-house budget conferences,



                 bill by bill within the budget, with public



                 participation.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes.  And that's



                 an excellent suggestion.  Some of what you are



                 suggesting I believe is incorporated.  And the



                 other things she's talking about all make



                 sense.



                            The Governor details -- but you're



                 pointing out that it's late.  We're talking



                 about moving that process into October, where



                 the agencies now send most of their



                 information to the budget office of the



                 Governor.  We are saying in this reform



                 package that at the same time they send it to



                 him, they send it to the Senate and to the



                 Assembly.  That then becomes public



                 information as to what the requests are.  And











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                 we also talk in this package about the revenue



                 as it's flowing in.  That will all be public



                 information.



                            So I think we're pretty well saying



                 the same things.  And you're talking about a



                 little more detail, and we're certainly open



                 to that.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.



                 President, if the sponsor would continue to



                 yield.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you yield?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President, Senator Bruno.



                            My, my, it's a new year for us



                 both.  We're agreeing on so many things here



                 today.  So I'll continue with an additional



                 suggestion for budget reform, particularly if



                 we're going down the road of amending our



                 constitution.



                            We take a great deal of money out











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                 of our state budget, or off-budget each year,



                 and we put them into authorities.  We put them



                 into the Empire State Development Corporation,



                 the Dormitory Authority, the New York State



                 Mortgage Agency, the Housing Finance Agency,



                 the Battery Park City Authority, the



                 Environmental Facilities Corporation, Long



                 Island Power Authority, Energy Research and



                 Development Authority.  I'm sure there are



                 more, but I think you get the idea.



                            In your proposal you say that under



                 this analysis we will earlier in the year have



                 evaluations of where we project we're going in



                 expenditures.  You talked about Medicare and



                 education and revenue projections.  I have a



                 concern as a new legislator that each year in



                 the budget large sums of money get voted once



                 a year into these authorities and then we



                 never report back to the Legislature or the



                 people of New York how those monies were spent



                 or if those monies were spent.



                            And that in a world of shrinking



                 resources and not adequate resources,



                 Mr. President, to address all the needs of the



                 State of New York, that in the context of











                                                        85







                 budget reform we should also require that



                 there be annual reports of the dollars that



                 have gone into those authorities -- whether



                 they have been spent, how they've been spent,



                 or whether they should be reevaluated for the



                 continued use of those monies that were



                 allocated in previous years.



                            So I was wondering whether I could



                 also make that recommendation and see how you



                 felt about that idea in budget reform.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, I



                 can't believe how agreeable we all are here.



                 Maybe we'd better quit while we're ahead.



                            (Laughter.)



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    But all of the



                 things that you're talking about, Senator,



                 just make good sense, all of them.



                            And I share with you that many of



                 the authorities -- and there are billions of



                 dollars that flow through the authorities of



                 this state -- we hold accountable.  The state



                 money that gets appropriated to authorities



                 goes through the legislative process to the



                 Governor as part of our budget, for the state



                 revenues.











                                                        86







                            Many of the authorities generate



                 their own funds -- through tolls, fines, you



                 name it.  Grants.  Most of those authorities,



                 by law, report now to the Legislature and to



                 the Governor.



                            But I think it's a good suggestion



                 that we review all of the authorities and, if



                 any of them don't report at least annually to



                 us, that we should incorporate that they do.



                 That's totally valid and appropriate.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                            Mr. President, if I could ask the



                 sponsor to yield to an additional question.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you continue to yield?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  I may run out of answers.



                            (Laughter.)



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    You're



                 answering very well, Senator Bruno.  I don't



                 think you'll run out of answers.



                            Since we do seem to agree on so



                 many of the suggestions I'm making as to how



                 we should approach budget reform in the state



                 of New York, I'll go back to my earliest











                                                        87







                 concern that in fact in the absence of --



                 failing to take the other steps that I think I



                 am recommending today, and that I think others



                 here might agree on, that if we just go



                 forward with a default budget option for the



                 Governor without mandating into budget reform



                 specific requirements on ourselves for the



                 process, that we will find ourselves trapped



                 in a situation where we end up with default



                 budgets or, in the analysis you described, in



                 a bad fiscal year with default budgets with



                 across-the-board cuts.



                            And so I wonder whether in fact you



                 would consider, before moving forward down the



                 road in both houses, including specifically in



                 your legislation these other



                 recommendations -- and I have more, but I



                 won't spend all of our time on this today --



                 to reevaluate this proposal, which I



                 understand has been put out there for quite a



                 few years, I think you said starting in 1985.



                            That rather than simply going



                 forward with the same proposal, that we really



                 do take the opportunity of this year -- bad



                 fiscal situation, new session, new third term











                                                        88







                 of the Governor -- to do an across-the-board



                 look at how we could improve the budget



                 process, rather than moving forward with this



                 bill, which historically would end up being a



                 one-house bill.



                            And I would love to see us really



                 move forward with a complete reform of our



                 budget process, because I think the people of



                 New York want it from us and I think we can do



                 better and should do better.  So I'm hoping



                 that you might consider reevaluating some of



                 the materials you have in your bill today.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 the bill that's before us now really pertains



                 to more the constitutional changes that are



                 required that we give first passage to.



                            And the questions that you're



                 asking don't really pertain to Senate 1.



                 They're more germane to Senate 2.



                            But I think, and in all fairness,



                 this bill, these bills are thick and wordy.



                 And there's no way that you could have gone



                 through all of the language in these bills



                 unless you were up, as I was, all night.  I



                 know Senator Paterson was too, because we were











                                                        89







                 talking.



                            Was that last night, Dave, about



                 3:00 in the morning?



                            But, Senator, most of your



                 recommendations are incorporated in the



                 language -- most of them, not all of them.  So



                 I would recommend that we move forward with



                 passage.



                            And you're right, presently it's a



                 one-house -- these are one-house bills.  I'm



                 hopeful that the Assembly will see fit to join



                 us in whatever modifications they think are



                 warranted and valid, and then we'll either



                 conference or we'll accept.  But we'll



                 certainly discuss.



                            And, Senator, you're absolutely



                 right in that this is not a partisan issue.



                 This is nonpolitical.  All of the people of



                 this state deserve an on-time budget.  We do



                 it collectively and together.  And there's no



                 question the suggestions that you make could



                 make good bills better bills.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Senator.  Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator











                                                        90







                 Bonacic.



                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            I'd like to thank our leader in



                 stepping up.  The first message that we are



                 delivering, the Senate, in 2003 is budget



                 reform.  And why is that the first message?



                 Because this is probably the worst budget



                 fiscal crisis we are facing in the last 40



                 years:  Post-9/11, poor economy, Wall Street



                 performing lousy.



                            We are in a fiscal bind, and



                 there's no room for political shenanigans.  We



                 talk of bipartisanship, we talk of unity, we



                 talk of facing stiff challenges and getting it



                 done.  Okay?



                            Now, 18 years we have not had an



                 on-time budget.  Why is that?  We've had a



                 Democratic Governor, we've had a Democratic



                 Assembly, we've had a Republican Senate.  Now



                 we have a Republican Governor, a Republican



                 Senate, and a Democratic Assembly.  That axis



                 of three, of power, they use the budget as a



                 weapon of extortion.



                            What do I mean by that?  If the











                                                        91







                 Assembly wants to raise taxes, if they want to



                 increase spending, do they want a budget come



                 April 1?  No way.  They don't care if we're



                 all stained.  They don't care if the media



                 beats us up.  And you know the media beats



                 each and every one up for not having a timely



                 budget.



                            There's no statutory mechanism to



                 make it work.  There is none.  And that



                 minority house power -- in this case, the



                 Democratic Assembly leadership -- they don't



                 want to give up their weapon.  That's the



                 reason we can't get on-time budgets.



                            Accountability, public be damned,



                 we'll take the media hits.  And when you ask



                 individual legislators, well, it requires an



                 April 1st budget, what do they say?  It's



                 better to have a better budget than a late



                 budget.  Remember?  What does "better" mean?



                 Better means more spending, maybe more taxes



                 for their particular -- whether it's the



                 metropolitan area or what.



                            This has been going on now since



                 I've been here, for 13 years.  And really,



                 when the people asked us to be their voice,











                                                        92







                 they asked us to run our fiscal affairs like



                 they do.  When they have a household, come the



                 first of the month they got to pay the



                 mortgage.  They got to pay their taxes when



                 they come due.



                            They say:  Why can't you function



                 in government like we have to function our



                 household?  Because we cannot get the other



                 house to pass legislation that would be a



                 statutory trigger in the event that we cannot



                 legislate and agree amongst ourselves.



                            So that's what our leader has done.



                 He has said we're beyond that now, we want to



                 be accountable.



                            And where is the good faith?  We



                 have a Democratic Comptroller.  We say let the



                 Democratic Comptroller determine revenue



                 forecasts.  This is what the Senate Republican



                 leadership is saying.  The people voted the



                 Comptroller, who deals with the numbers all



                 the time, deals with fiscal consultants, deals



                 with analysts and economists.



                            No, they don't want to give up the



                 weapon of extortion in passing a budget.



                            And the other problem where we're











                                                        93







                 dysfunctional, when things are slower in the



                 beginning of the year, we could be working on



                 legislation.  But there's distrust, there's



                 distrust among the leadership.  So all the



                 legislation backs up, and it's leveraged to



                 the budget.  It's like a big dam.



                            So when this budget gets passed,



                 whether it's at the end of June, tied into



                 rent control, or we go into the summer months,



                 we'll stay here two weeks after the budget is



                 done and do 1500 bills and stay on this floor



                 10 to 15 hours and pass bills, of which many



                 of us are numb after a while.



                            That's the way this culture is that



                 I have seen for 13 years.  And I can remember



                 being on the Assembly floor as a minority



                 member 27½ hours after the dam broke of the



                 budget tie-in -- and I say "dam," D-A-M.



                 That's how we work.



                            And what's going to change that?



                 Because it's a matter of respect and



                 compromise and trust with leaders.  And I say



                 as long as we don't have that trust and we



                 don't have that respect, we are never going to



                 have legislation for an on-time budget.











                                                        94







                            And I will say in conclusion that



                 the Senate, in my humble opinion, can do



                 nothing, can do no more or take no stronger



                 action constitutionally to pass budget reform



                 legislation.  And the Assembly can take no



                 weaker action constitutionally than to do



                 nothing, which they have done for ten years.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    For his



                 maiden speech, Senator Robach.



                            SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes, Mr.



                 President, on this legislation.



                            I feel compelled, because of the



                 importance of this, to really say that it's



                 right for us to champion these efforts.



                 Coming from the other house, there's no



                 question that the ideas of open and timely



                 budget process is critically imperative to



                 everyone in New York State, whether you're



                 upstate or you're downstate.  It is not only



                 good public policy, it is dramatically needed



                 and something we need to do.



                            And lastly, I say, one thing we all



                 have a commonality on, we like to view



                 ourselves as populists in being responsive to











                                                        95







                 our districts.  This is something that people



                 everywhere in this state will applaud if we



                 can really make substantial changes.



                            There is no question we are in



                 challenging times.  But from challenges come



                 opportunities.  And this is the time that we



                 need to move forward not only with S1, but S2,



                 the ideas of joint conference committees.  The



                 idea of using the Comptroller's revenue



                 estimate certainly cannot be pointed by anyone



                 as something politically partisan.  It's just



                 good public policy.  It's common sense.



                            And I don't have to tell everyone



                 in this chamber.  You know it's coming.  I



                 tried to champion this issue for ten years.



                 But now we have a group called New Yorkers for



                 an On-Time Budget.  They're not just people in



                 upstate New York, they're in upstate, they're



                 in downstate, they're school districts,



                 they're school employees, they're



                 not-for-profit agencies, they're good



                 government groups that want us to act.



                            And I'll leave you with this.  Not



                 only should we support this legislation all



                 across the board, but we should all work to











                                                        96







                 make sure that these measures get through the



                 entire Legislature.  And it will be a



                 memorable day of a tough, challenging time



                 where something good was done.  I encourage a



                 yes vote on not only S1 but S2.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hoffmann.



                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            This is a very exciting day, and



                 it's exciting for several reasons.  I think



                 probably one of the most personally satisfying



                 things that I can experience today is the fact



                 that we have a conciliatory tone and we have



                 true leadership coming from this chamber,



                 leadership not just for this chamber but



                 leadership for the entire state.



                            What better way for us to face the



                 fiscal challenge of 2003 than to begin by



                 cleaning up our own act.  What better way than



                 by establishing for the Assembly a standard



                 that both houses of the Legislature should



                 follow.



                            And the unanimity with which we are











                                                        97







                 hearing debate on the other side of the aisle



                 is indeed heartening.  This is another sign of



                 the new leadership of Senator Paterson.  The



                 warm support coming from Senator Krueger is to



                 be noted.



                            This is a time for all members of



                 this chamber to use whatever power they have.



                 And indeed, our power is great and varied in



                 many ways.  Not only are we elected to vote in



                 this chamber, we are elected to lead in our



                 own districts.  And what better way for our



                 counterparts on the other side of the aisle to



                 lead in their own districts than by carrying



                 the message to their fellow members of the



                 Legislature who serve in the other house about



                 how important it is that we enact these budget



                 reforms today.



                            We have tried.  Since 1985, under



                 Senator Bruno's leadership -- and I remember



                 well, Senator, when you introduced measures



                 like that, because I can remember the



                 conversations you and I had then across the



                 aisle, back when I was sitting I believe where



                 Senator Stavisky sits right now.  I remember



                 breaking ranks on many, many occasions because











                                                        98







                 it was the right thing to do.  I liked what I



                 heard, I knew what we needed a change, I



                 understood what my constituents wanted.



                            And now there is an opportunity for



                 people on both sides of the aisle in both



                 houses to say our constituents in this state



                 individually and collectively want meaningful



                 budget reform, and they want it now.  We can't



                 afford to wait.  This is a crisis of



                 confidence for New York State.



                            And lest any of us forget that, I



                 would be happy to pull out a few newspaper



                 clippings that show Standard & Poor's and



                 Moody's downgrading the bond ratings of this



                 state and listing as the reason for those



                 downgradings the lack of an on-time budget.



                            If we are going stimulate the



                 economy of this state, we must do it by



                 keeping the jobs that we have, by encouraging



                 people who are investing in New York State to



                 invest more.  We must tell them that we



                 understand sound business practices; we must



                 demonstrate sound business practices



                 ourselves.



                            And to the school districts around











                                                        99







                 the state who have already begun their annual



                 trip into the Capitol, let us allow these



                 people to educate and not force them to become



                 professional lobbyists.  I was embarrassed



                 yesterday to begin my legislative session with



                 my very first constituent meeting with several



                 superintendents.  They've reorganized; they



                 have a little bit more structure.  One of them



                 is now elected to a position that in effect



                 means he's the chief spokesperson for the pain



                 they all fear.  And his job will bring him



                 here to the Capitol as often as necessary with



                 the latest updates on teachers they are forced



                 to lay off, classroom expansion that is



                 already put on hold, overcrowding that they



                 can't address.



                            If this is happening in upstate



                 New York, in Madison, Oneida, Onondaga, and



                 Cayuga County, surely it happens in New York



                 City too.  And I would hope that the Speaker



                 realizes that we cannot be fair to these



                 school districts if they can't put their



                 budgets together because they don't know what



                 the state budget is.



                            Yes, rent control is important to











                                                        100







                 New York City.  And I don't think anybody here



                 would be cavalier and say that we don't want



                 to address it.  We will address it.  We have



                 before.  But this is not the time to raise



                 that.



                            There are issues that are important



                 to upstate New York, to an entire industry



                 that is often misunderstood and sometimes



                 maligned by the other house.  But I won't



                 bring up an issue like the Dairy Compact and



                 expect action on it prior to passage of a



                 budget, because the budget is our first



                 priority and budget reform must happen now.



                            And I would ask the members of the



                 Fourth Estate, the esteemed members of the



                 press who work so hard to cover our activities



                 here, to please be fair and please convey



                 accurately and consistently the actions of



                 these two houses of the Legislature.  Nobody



                 likes to see stereotypical tarring with the



                 same brush of any class of people, whether it



                 is by gender or by economics or by ethnic



                 background or racial background.



                            When someone says "all you people,"



                 we're all offended as Americans.  That is











                                                        101







                 wrong.  That's not the way we talk in an



                 intelligent, educated society.  We treat



                 people with dignity, and we acknowledge their



                 differences.



                            Well, my friends, there is a



                 difference here between these two houses of



                 the Legislature.  The Senate is prepared to do



                 a budget.  We have attempted before, we have



                 tried to meet openly, we have invited the



                 other house to meet.  And this year we are



                 passing as our first two pieces of legislation



                 budget reform.



                            Now it is up to the Assembly to do



                 the same.  Let the people of this state



                 understand the distinction and apply the



                 pressure where it is most appropriate and



                 where it is most needed.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Schneiderman.



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.



                 Thank you, Mr. President.  I will be brief.



                            In the spirit of overwhelming



                 bipartisanship here, I want to address some of



                 the comments made by Senator Bonacic regarding











                                                        102







                 the fact that this bill will take a weapon



                 away from whichever of the leaders is the



                 outsider in terms of party, if you have a --



                 in this case we have a Republican Governor, a



                 Republican Senate, and a Democratic Assembly.



                            My concern is that this bill would



                 in fact give a massive weapon to the governor,



                 whatever party that governor belongs to,



                 taking power away from us as a Legislature and



                 transferring it to the governor.  And I would



                 urge you, in the spirit of bipartisanship -- I



                 mean, maybe things will work out statewide in



                 four years, but maybe they won't and we'll



                 have a Democratic governor.  This would be a



                 massive transfer of power.



                            It also -- and this is a very



                 critical point, and I think this can be



                 addressed, Senator Bruno, I would urge, in a



                 modification of this bill, if perhaps it



                 doesn't become law this year, for next year.



                            Something that is very, very



                 troubling about this is if we make a multiyear



                 commitment, as we did in the Education Law, to



                 prekindergarten programs, to expand them,



                 expand the funding over a multiyear period,











                                                        103







                 this bill would prevent programs from



                 receiving funding that we promised them in



                 another area of law, because it would lock us



                 in at the previous year's level.



                            So in my district we have



                 prekindergarten programs who we promised in



                 the Education Law would receive twice as much



                 money in Year Two as in Year One.  This bill



                 would create chaos because they will act, as



                 they should, on our word in the Legislature



                 that we're going to expand the funding, and



                 this bill would eliminate our ability to do



                 that.



                            This is a flaw I believe that can



                 be corrected.  I hope that in -- I just have



                 this feeling that maybe this won't become law



                 this year.  And I would hope that perhaps in



                 next year's version we can address this.



                            And I do think it is good for us to



                 start the year with this critical issue, and



                 to try and move things along.  We need the



                 Governor and the Assembly to participate.  And



                 I think that it is not going to move forward



                 on the basis that we can't provide additional



                 funding which we've already promised.  I would











                                                        104







                 urge that correction.



                            And I would also urge that we're



                 not going to make this process better by



                 strengthening the hand of the Governor at the



                 expense of the Legislature.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Larkin.



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you very



                 much, Mr. President.



                            As I start my 25th year, I look



                 back to my first few years here -- in the



                 Assembly, in those days -- and we used to do



                 three budgets.  We did the regular budget we



                 did, finished it in April.  Before we went



                 home in June, we did a supplemental.  And in



                 December we'd always come back and we'd always



                 blame the MTA.



                            And I remember Senator Bruno saying



                 back then to colleagues of mine in the



                 Assembly:  Let's start blaming ourselves.



                            And we blamed the MTA, and in



                 December we'd come back and we did a deficit



                 budget.  And that's the way it was until 1983,



                 when we said we'll only have one budget.











                                                        105







                            And that sounds excellent.  But,



                 you know, we've been passing the word around



                 here about we ought to change this and we



                 ought to change that.  You know what you're



                 really saying on this side of the aisle, in



                 the other house, is "We don't really want to



                 change."



                            I have members of the Assembly



                 Democrats from my district area who say a late



                 budget is better than an on-time budget.



                 Well, go tell somebody who's owed money that



                 you're not going to pay him because, you know,



                 it's not just good policy.



                            But, you know, here's two pieces of



                 paper.  And I might suggest that those of you



                 who think this is a bad idea, you ought to go



                 and read them.  There is Section 107 of the



                 Town Law, and it tells the contents of what a



                 preliminary budget is.  Having been a town



                 supervisor, and elected in 1975, when the town



                 board did not adopt a budget.



                            And if you then look over at



                 Section 109 of the Town Law, it says that with



                 the exception of Westchester County, every



                 town -- there are 935 towns -- must have this











                                                        106







                 budget adopted by the 20th of November or it's



                 the final passage of the budget that was



                 preliminary.



                            Somebody will say:  Well, what does



                 preliminary mean?  There's the Comptroller's



                 rule of what a preliminary budget for a town



                 must include.



                            So we're going to tell 935 towns



                 that you must do this by November the 20th or



                 you will be satellited with the budget that



                 you prepared in compliance with the



                 comptroller.  And you the supervisor gave it



                 to the town clerk and the town board reviewed



                 it in September, and in November you didn't



                 adopt it.



                            Ladies and gentlemen, I'm telling



                 you, I experienced it.  All the people in my



                 town were told we're getting a



                 28-cent-per-thousand tax.  Great PR for



                 campaigning.  But when the tax bills went out



                 in December, they were an 82-cents-a-thousand



                 increase, and the budget had not been adopted.



                 And I was satellited.



                            So if we can put this into Town Law



                 and say you must do it, 935 towns, then why











                                                        107







                 can't we at the state say, as Senator Bruno



                 clearly lined out for us, what we should and



                 shouldn't do?



                            Now, if you want to go back to some



                 of you who were here a few years ago, about



                 1998 or 1999, when we had a meeting in the Red



                 Room -- the Governor, Senator Bruno, a bunch



                 of my colleagues came here.  The Speaker --



                 and it was in the paper, the Speaker was



                 invited, and the Comptroller invited, because



                 there were some ideas that we have enunciated



                 here already today.  And they were both asked.



                            Here is an opportunity for you to



                 stand with us and say the bill that we



                 proposed you've looked at and here's what I



                 like and here's what I don't like.  And here



                 we are five, six years later, and they still



                 don't like it, but they haven't submitted



                 anything.



                            Now, I don't know about you in



                 New York City, but I have 30 towns, and I go



                 to them and the first thing out of their



                 mouth:  When are you going to get an on-time



                 budget?  Two Chambers of Commerce this



                 morning:  priorities, get an on-time budget.











                                                        108







                            We've forced the towns to do it,



                 we've forced the villages to do it, we've



                 forced the counties to do it, and we force our



                 school districts.  Are we showing any



                 leadership when we start to say, well, if you



                 add a little sugar and maybe some berries and



                 then some cream and you stir it up, it will



                 smell better, it will taste better?



                            Ladies and gentlemen, unless you



                 want to do this and do it right, you're not



                 going to do anything.  You're going to be here



                 for as long as you'll be here and you'll be



                 saying the same thing.



                            And you know what?  And I'm not



                 trying to be smart.  I served 23 years in the



                 Army with combat units.  You know what it's



                 called?  Lack of courage, lack of leadership.



                            We have the leadership here.  We



                 have the will to do it.  Will you be with the



                 people you were sent here to represent, or



                 will you take a stand of saying "I just don't



                 want to do it"?



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco.











                                                        109







                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    The



                 Legislature makes laws.  And all those laws



                 have to comply with the Constitution of the



                 State of New York.  It seems to me if we have



                 the responsibility of making laws, we ought to



                 have the responsibility of following the laws



                 and doing what the laws say we're supposed to



                 do.



                            I'm sure every one of us, no matter



                 what political party we belong to, is totally



                 embarrassed by the process.  It's embarrassing



                 to go home to the district and hear people



                 treat us as if we are not good, we'll put it



                 that way, people that can't do their job.



                            And every newspaper around the



                 state has editorialized one time or another



                 about the Legislature.  We're all lumped up.



                 Everybody is bad because we can't do our job.



                            Now, what's really important here



                 is the Senate has a set of bills.  They may



                 not be the greatest.  Some Minority members



                 may have better ideas.  The fact is, in good



                 faith, year after year after year, we go



                 through this.  And there's always a criticism



                 of the bill.











                                                        110







                            Senator Schneiderman mentioned it



                 will give the Governor too much power.  It



                 will only give the Governor too much power if



                 we don't pass the budget on time.  If you



                 don't have a club over somebody's head in the



                 Legislature, there's no reason not to continue



                 on over and over with the same process.



                            So I have just a couple of



                 suggestions.  If we don't want to go through



                 the embarrassment, if we don't want to go



                 through the inconvenience year after year of



                 not knowing when it's going to be over, then



                 we all have a responsibility to try to get it



                 done.



                            Last year Senator Bruno had the



                 open meetings, invited Mr. Silver, Speaker



                 Silver to come over, start the process.  It



                 didn't work.  All papers around the state



                 editorialized:  Mr. Silver, come to the



                 meetings, let's start doing this process.



                            Well, all of us have a



                 responsibility, and that includes everyone



                 here, to go to the people that they feel



                 comfortable with, that this is the year, let's



                 get some realistic measure that we can both











                                                        111







                 agree on.  We no longer want to be



                 embarrassed, we no longer want to be



                 inconvenienced over it year after year after



                 year.  And that includes the media as well.



                            As Senator Hoffmann mentioned --



                 and I think it's a very, very important



                 point -- the first editorial in our papers in



                 Syracuse was the Legislature, the ineffective



                 Legislature.  Well, if you're going to keep



                 painting everyone with that same brush, there



                 is no pressure whatsoever for the Assembly to



                 do anything.  Because the average person



                 doesn't understand the workings of the



                 Legislature.



                            And it's incumbent, I think, on the



                 media to explain year after year that we've



                 presented these bills, no alternatives



                 presented in the Assembly, let alone



                 negotiations.  And it's about time that we



                 made certain that there were alternatives and



                 so we could work out this problem once and for



                 all.



                            And it is incumbent on all of us to



                 play our part.  And hopefully, hopefully this



                 year we'll take this issue seriously and be











                                                        112







                 respected for not only making the laws but



                 following the laws as well.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Morahan.



                            SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I'd like to speak to the bill.



                            I'm not going to lecture anyone in



                 this chamber.  I think we all stand together



                 for reform.  We all have some individual ideas



                 how that may come about.  But I think what's



                 important to note is that in this chamber we



                 are allowed to address the issue.  In this



                 chamber, both Majority and Minority are



                 allowed to speak on it and to vote on it.



                            And I don't know that this is the



                 final version we'll ever see.  Last year we



                 passed a series of these bills, two of which I



                 sponsored but were not taken up in the



                 Assembly.  It seems to me that we'll pass



                 these bills today and they will go to the



                 Assembly.



                            And I believe these bills really



                 say to the Assembly we're ready to do business



                 on budget reform, send us your proposals, let



                 us see what your ideas are.  Maybe we can











                                                        113







                 conference.  Maybe we can come to an



                 agreement.  Maybe we can amend.  Maybe we can



                 get reform.  Maybe we can take everyone's



                 opinion into account.



                            So I'm speaking to the bill, not to



                 my colleagues in any sense of a lecture.  I



                 urge everyone in this hall, in this chamber to



                 vote for this bill.



                            As to the gubernatorial powers that



                 we may be giving or some people feel that



                 we're giving to the Governor, let me remind



                 you, as Senator Larkin stated, I served at the



                 county level for many years.  In a county --



                 in most counties, all counties in this state,



                 a budget is prepared, where there's an



                 executive, by his staff, and submitted to the



                 legislature.  If the county legislature does



                 not act and vote on that budget by a certain



                 date, I think it's usually about December 6th



                 or thereabouts, then the original submission



                 of the executive becomes law.



                            I don't know of any case in the



                 State of New York where that really occurred.



                 I've seen legislatures work till 5 o'clock in



                 the morning -- and I was on one of those -- to











                                                        114







                 make the deadline, to come to accord, to make



                 an agreement.  Not everyone was happy, not



                 everyone was angry, but we had done our job.



                            And I think the specter of giving



                 the control back to the Governor would incent



                 us to do what has to be done.



                            In those counties that don't have a



                 county executive, it's even more concerning



                 because it's put together by a budget officer



                 who's elected by no one.  And if the



                 legislature can't adopt his budget by a



                 certain date, then the nonelected bureaucratic



                 budget is put into place.  Not to be amended



                 later, but put in place.



                            So I'm delighted that we have these



                 bills.  And I think the other message is



                 they're the first two items of business that



                 we're dealing with this year.  And even in the



                 best of times, when we had all sorts of



                 money -- really there was never enough, but we



                 had a whole lot more than we have today.  But



                 even in those years -- good years, lean



                 years -- the budget process always was broken



                 or derailed for other purposes.



                            Yes, it's important to do this,











                                                        115







                 especially this year because of what we face.



                 But I think it's important for every year from



                 here on out.  So I'm delighted and proud that



                 my leader has put forth these two as our first



                 priority to tell the Assembly we mean to do



                 business.



                            Send us your thoughts, Mr. Speaker,



                 send us your thoughts so that we can review



                 those and perhaps before this session ends,



                 before we get to the budget process, we can



                 have some budget reform, meaningful budget



                 reform in place.



                            Thank you very much, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I'll explain



                 my vote.  I defer to explain my vote.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank



                 you, Senator Montgomery.



                            Senator Flanagan.



                            SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.  I just want to make a couple of



                 brief comments.



                            After serving 16 years in the



                 Assembly, many people might suspect that the











                                                        116







                 greatest frustration you have is being in the



                 minority.  In reality, the greatest



                 frustration that I experienced in being in the



                 Assembly was a lack of timeliness and a lack



                 of getting our work done in a timely fashion



                 and frankly serving the people's interests in



                 this state in a way that they should readily



                 expect and be accustomed to.  But



                 unfortunately that's not the case.



                            And I would point out one very



                 stark and simple difference, but it's



                 profound, between the Senate and the Assembly.



                 It's not the legislation.  The thing that I



                 noticed today is that the leader of the



                 Senate, Senator Bruno, actually engages in



                 debate.  That's something you don't see in the



                 Assembly.  The leader is here and can enter



                 into a colloquy with anyone in this house and



                 exchange ideas and have suggestions and



                 comments.  And, frankly, I find that to be a



                 very welcome change.



                            And it also underscores the fact



                 that the Senate is actively doing business



                 already.  I am very happy that this is the



                 number-one priority.  I'm very happy that











                                                        117







                 budget reform is something that's being



                 discussed in a meaningful way.



                            And it also points out that if you



                 look over to the Assembly, that the committees



                 are not formed yet.  I mean, I sat through



                 years of fiscal hearings as the ranking



                 Republican on the Ways and Means Committee,



                 and right now, while we all suspect and we all



                 probably assume that Chairman Farrell will be



                 the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee,



                 those assignments haven't been made.  So they



                 can't engage in this type of debate at this



                 stage of the game, because they don't know



                 what their assignments are going to be.



                            And I can tell you that I was



                 largely responsible for offering our



                 suggestions and our comments for the Assembly



                 Republicans for the last number of years, and



                 offered suggestions on the floor -- in fact,



                 even offered bills on the floor which were



                 routinely voted down.  And the most amazing



                 thing is, of course, not that they were voted



                 down but that there was never an alternative



                 offered.



                            There was never any reform











                                                        118







                 proposal, whether it was a constitutional



                 amendment or a statutory change or a call for



                 conference committees, there was never



                 anything offered by the Assembly Majority.



                 And they didn't even seem to be embarrassed or



                 shy about the fact that that wasn't taking



                 place.



                            And one thing that I think in



                 relation to the comments made about the power



                 of the Governor, there was also some



                 discussion and debate on a general level about



                 the power of the Comptroller.  There were some



                 who were very concerned, saying that if the



                 Legislature didn't come up with a revenue



                 forecast, then all of a sudden the New York



                 State Comptroller would have unbridled power,



                 that the Comptroller would be the one to set



                 the actual revenue figures for the State of



                 New York.



                            Well, as Senator DeFrancisco said,



                 the Governor would have no power if we do our



                 job, and the Comptroller will have no power if



                 the Legislature acts in unison and in



                 cooperation and does its job.



                            I think this is a wonderful thing.











                                                        119







                 I would consider this to be a very productive



                 session if we were able to pass reform like



                 this.  And I hope that we can pass our budget



                 on time.  This is a great start.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 can we call the roll on this resolution.  We



                 have two members, Senators Stavisky and Duane,



                 who have planes to catch.



                            You have a plane to catch, Senator



                 Oppenheimer?



                            All of us are anxious to get on our



                 way.  But if you've got reasons for leaving,



                 you can vote now, including Senator



                 Oppenheimer, and then we'll return to the



                 discussion on this resolution.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On the



                 resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All



                 right, the roll call is withdrawn then.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Mr.











                                                        120







                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank



                 you, Senator Bruno.



                            Senator Diaz.



                            SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,



                 will the sponsor yield for a question?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you yield for a question from



                 Senator Diaz?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you.



                            I am representing a very poor



                 neighborhood.  And I see every year that there



                 are many groups in my community that receive



                 money from the state budget.  When the state



                 budget doesn't come in time, there are



                 families that have to go through three and



                 four months without paying their bills,



                 without paying their rent, without having the



                 money to supply their needs.



                            Question.  If we don't agree on a



                 budget and the Governor instituted to continue











                                                        121







                 with the old budget, would the families on the



                 programs in my community, would they continue



                 receiving the money without stopping?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    The answer, Mr.



                 President, is yes.  Because those communities



                 that are receiving dollars are receiving them



                 from the authority of the budget that we've



                 all passed.  So that would continue until a



                 new budget gets put in place.  So yes.



                            SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,



                 would the sponsor yield for another question?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno, do you yield?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 sponsor yields.



                            SENATOR DIAZ:    Senator



                 Schneiderman said that this is a dangerous



                 thing because if you promise something to a



                 community group for a kindergarten or



                 education, if the Governor established to



                 continue with the old budget, that those



                 groups will lose their money.



                            Would they lose their money, or











                                                        122







                 they would get the money when the budget is



                 approved?



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    The Governor



                 could, in his prerogative, withhold funds.



                 But our experience has been that if it's of a



                 necessity with the people who are



                 disadvantaged, that those dollars usually are



                 prioritized in use of the flow.  The only way



                 that that would change is if we then do a new



                 budget and the numbers are different.



                            So there's as much protection --



                 and that's really the intent, that the normal



                 flow take place for all of these agencies that



                 are out there -- for school districts, for



                 hospitals, for nursing homes -- uninterrupted.



                            SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Marcellino.



                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            First I'd like to thank the



                 Majority Leader for his leadership and for his



                 fortitude on this issue.  This legislation has



                 been put forth for 17 out of past 18 years.











                                                        123







                            One could get a bit cynical, as we



                 heard from one of my colleagues on the other



                 side of the aisle, that we're putting this



                 forward just to get a little bit of press and



                 a little bit of publicity at the opening day.



                            I don't take it that way.  I think



                 we have a priority here.  And I think the most



                 important priority that this house has is to



                 fix, once and for all, a dysfunctional system,



                 a system that does not allow us to get an



                 on-time budget the way we are supposed to



                 according to the constitution.



                            Senator DeFrancisco was correct.



                 We write the laws, we ought to abide by the



                 laws.  The law says we have to have an on-time



                 budget, we should have one.  We need a system



                 of carrot and stick to get the system in.



                            This may not be the best proposal



                 in the world.  However, it is the best one on



                 the table.  And if the other house has a



                 better one, put it out there.  For 17 out of



                 the past 18 years, there hasn't even been a



                 murmur from the other house.  Nothing has come



                 forward.  No alternative, no issues.



                            I noted that three Senators who











                                                        124







                 already voted voted no.  Voted no on what?



                 They're not in favor of reforming a system



                 that doesn't work?  They want to keep the



                 statute quo?  I don't think so.  I don't think



                 anybody seriously here does.



                            This system has to change.  Senator



                 Bruno has put forth a challenge to the other



                 house.  He's put forth a challenge to the



                 leadership of the other house:  Come to the



                 table and talk.  We're already there.  We have



                 been there.  We want to go there.



                            I want to address the Superfund.  I



                 want to address comprehensive brownfields



                 legislation.  I want to address the



                 Rockefeller Drug Laws and, yes, even rent



                 control and other issues of concern.  And the



                 Dairy Compact.  I want to address a whole host



                 of other issues.  None of them can go forward



                 seriously until we have comprehensive budget



                 reform.  Every one of these issues requires



                 money.  You can't allocate that money unless



                 we have the process reformed.



                            I'm not worried about giving up



                 some power to the governor because, as was



                 said before, he only gets it if we don't











                                                        125







                 function.  I'm not worried about giving up



                 power to the comptroller, whichever party the



                 comptroller is in.  He's an elected



                 official -- or she, as the case may be.  An



                 elected official.  They'll exercise their



                 duty.  And it only happens if we don't



                 function here.



                            And there is no excuse for not



                 functioning here.  We have an obligation, as



                 my colleague Senator Flanagan said, an



                 obligation to our constituents to get the job



                 done.  We're sent here to do a budget and



                 other meaningful legislation.  Everything else



                 gets held up until we get this budget process



                 done.  How can we go home when in a few



                 weeks -- or days, who knows -- we could have



                 troops at war in a foreign country.  Men and



                 women serving this country could be fighting



                 and dying on foreign soil and we're arguing



                 over who is going to set a budget proposal.



                            There are, I would suggest to you,



                 ladies and gentlemen, much bigger issues on



                 the table of this nation and this state.  And



                 our constituents have a right to expect that



                 we address the budget.  That's the least we











                                                        126







                 can do.  Our school districts need it, the



                 cities need it, the villages need it, the



                 rural areas need it, the suburbs need it,



                 everybody needs an on-time budget.



                            Senator Bruno has offered an



                 alternative.  He's offered a process.  I



                 should think we would all support the process,



                 get it on the table.  If the other house has



                 an alternative, put it on the table.  We can



                 meet in conference and for once and for all



                 address the system and get on with our



                 business in a timely way.



                            Ladies and gentlemen, I urge, I



                 urge that we support this legislation so that



                 this house and this Legislature can move



                 forward to do the people's business.



                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Montgomery.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I just want to speak briefly



                 on this legislation.



                            As I'm reading this, to some of my



                 colleagues who have talked about us needing to



                 have an earlier date, I just remember that the











                                                        127







                 Governor did give us a budget, I believe, one



                 year in December.  And I don't think that we



                 had an earlier budget, despite the fact that



                 we received that budget early, because there



                 was not an agreement between the three people



                 who generally end up doing the budget.



                            So I'm not so sure that we are



                 addressing that.  But nonetheless I certainly



                 agree with an attempt to try to address the



                 issue of an on-time budget.



                            I do, however -- I'm very concerned



                 and I do oppose a particular aspect of the



                 bill that I think is -- goes against what we



                 represent in our roles as elected officials.



                 And that is the establishment in the



                 constitution of this default budget process,



                 to me, goes in the opposite of what we say



                 that we want to do, in terms of opening up the



                 process, making sure that we as legislators



                 are a part of the budget discussions, a



                 meaningful -- play a meaningful role, and are



                 able in fact to represent fully the people



                 that we're elected to represent.



                            In the legislation I want to point



                 out to my colleagues -- I'm sure we've all











                                                        128







                 read as much as we could.  But my



                 understanding based on this bill states



                 unequivocally that in the event that a default



                 budget becomes law, and in a fiscal year where



                 there are less monies and the Legislature does



                 not come to an agreement, the Governor



                 acquires certain specific powers.



                            One of those is to make any



                 transfer of any appropriation or portion



                 thereof for any object or purpose based on the



                 Governor's determination.  The Governor may



                 reduce by a uniform percentage all



                 appropriations from the general fund except



                 those that are necessary for contractual



                 agreements.



                            And when Senator Diaz asks whether



                 or not his constituents are going to receive



                 monies in the budget, since there will be no



                 contractual agreements, nothing that we in the



                 Legislature would have voted to fund the year



                 prior would have to be -- would have to be



                 funded.  Because unless there was a



                 contractual agreement, the Governor doesn't



                 have to do that.



                            The Governor may modify the











                                                        129







                 operation of any law governing the



                 apportionment and the allocation of



                 appropriations.  So if we pass legislation



                 establishing a program, that Governor for that



                 year that we have not reached an agreement



                 does not have to honor the program or the



                 project and in fact can remove the funding for



                 it.



                            So it seems to me that we are



                 building into our constitution a right for the



                 Governor to override, to supersede what the



                 Legislature -- and indeed, in agreement with



                 the Governor, in a prior year -- can just



                 change.



                            The other point that I want to make



                 is that this proposal, by virtue of the fact



                 that we put in the constitution now a



                 four-to-one majority membership on the



                 conference committees, we on this side of the



                 aisle, for now, since we have -- we are in the



                 minority, and we get to put one in, that means



                 Senator Marcellino has more power, more



                 authority in relationship to the budget



                 process than I do, by four times at least,



                 just simply in representation on that











                                                        130







                 conference committee.  Not to mention all of



                 the other built-in constitutional inequities



                 in our state already.



                            So I am obviously opposed to this



                 legislation.  I think it makes no sense for us



                 to give up whatever small role that we play



                 already in the budget process.  Because, in



                 fact, our job is the budget.  This is what we



                 do, the budget.  Everything else flows from



                 it.



                            So I am adamantly opposed to this



                 legislation.  It builds in inequity.  And



                 forever and ever we in the Legislature will be



                 subject to any Governor.  And no matter what



                 party that Governor belongs to, I think that



                 is wrong.  It is ridiculous for us to move out



                 as our first action to give up more of our



                 power.



                            So I'll be voting no on this



                 legislation.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Saland.



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            I listened carefully to much of the











                                                        131







                 debate, and I just felt compelled to rise,



                 particularly with regard to some of the



                 dialogue that has occurred with regard to our



                 abdicating our responsibilities and in effect



                 giving the Governor a blank check should we



                 have to resort to a default budget under this



                 constitutional resolution.



                            The bottom line is, is that if you



                 read the language on the third page of the



                 bill, it does not give the Governor unfettered



                 discretion, as would seem to be where Senator



                 Montgomery was pointing.  In fact, that first



                 subparagraph A only refers to contractual



                 obligations and does not refer to merely



                 authorizing the Governor, as he or she may see



                 fit, to effectively undo what had been in a



                 prior year's budget.



                            And then as you read further among



                 those three subsections, what you see is that



                 there is an apportionment system that



                 basically says if you're going to reduce,



                 those reductions really have to be equal.



                 Those reductions can't be, in effect,



                 arbitrary and willy-nilly across the board.



                            This constitutional resolution is











                                                        132







                 not something easily arrived at.  But in a



                 system which has failed 18 consecutive years,



                 one which is now faced with the most enormous



                 fiscal crisis, certainly if not within recent



                 memory, then within our history, there is



                 action that is required to be taken.



                            And as has been mentioned several



                 times by my colleagues, in effect what we are



                 saying is by first saying that the



                 Comptroller, in the event that we do not have



                 a budget consensus by the 1st of March, shall



                 become the final and sole arbiter of what



                 shall be those revenues, effectively becomes



                 the person who sets the table for us.



                            Why does he or she set that table?



                 Because we have failed.  We have failed.



                 Failed, failed, failed.  There is a law on the



                 books, as everyone in this chamber knows, and



                 it's the classic case of being the toothless



                 tiger.  Nothing happens if the revenue



                 consensus isn't in line by March as is



                 required by law.



                            So this provides teeth.  We don't



                 like teeth, we'd rather have the other system



                 that lets us go on indefinitely with no











                                                        133







                 responsibilities, lets us go on indefinitely



                 with no ramification?  I would think not.



                 We've become the, in effect, determinants of



                 our own future by merely coming to agreement.



                 If we don't, a pox on our house and a pox on



                 their house.  We blew it.



                            Then we come up with the May 1



                 date.  Now, this will have given us more than



                 five months, if you want to go back into the



                 preceding year when the process starts.  If by



                 the 1st of May people with a modicum of good



                 faith can't arrive at a budget agreement, then



                 we'll have to admit again we've failed.  It's



                 nobody's fault but our own.  We've become the



                 controllers of our own destiny.



                            And we do not abdicate our



                 responsibility in a carte blanche fashion, as



                 has been implied in several of the comments



                 that I've heard today.  Yes, we do abdicate



                 some of our responsibility.  Keep in mind that



                 preceding budget would have been one that we



                 would have actively participated in the



                 negotiating of.



                            And it becomes in effect a



                 fail-safe, no more than a fail-safe.  And it











                                                        134







                 basically says the dysfunction will not be any



                 longer.  The bottom line is if we can't do it



                 ourselves, we have to set up the guidelines



                 that's going to make it work.  And this is a



                 very well constructed means by which to do it.



                            I too join with my colleagues in



                 complimenting Senator Bruno for once again



                 attempting to put this on the table.  The fact



                 of the matter is that Senator Bruno has, since



                 the day he became the Majority Leader,



                 effectively made this a more efficient place.



                 He's tried to make this a place that operates



                 in a more effective fashion.  This is another



                 manifestation of his desire to make this



                 government system work more effectively.



                            And the bottom line is really



                 simple.  It leaves it up to us, and it's only



                 if we fail that any other players get



                 involved.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On the



                 resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Nozzolio, to explain his vote.



                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.











                                                        135







                 President.  I rise to explain my vote.



                            This is a tremendous legislative



                 measure.  It's the most important that we will



                 enact this year.  It provides certainty to all



                 who depend on the state budget.  It provides



                 order.  And it provides a way to end the



                 deadlock.



                            Mr. President, I speak not just to



                 my colleagues here, to my colleagues as



                 Senators, but also to my colleagues as



                 Assemblymen.  Those Assemblymen who are --



                 have any seriousness about reforming this



                 budget process, they need to enact Senator



                 Bruno's legislation.



                            In the next few weeks we will be



                 meeting, particularly in the regions between



                 Syracuse and Rochester, with a number of



                 groups, a number of groups who are concerned



                 about the budget, who are dependent upon the



                 state budget.  And we will hear their pleas to



                 have an on-time budget to provide the



                 certainty necessary so they can do their



                 budgetary process, so they can provide -- they



                 know it's going to be a tough year.  They know



                 the budget will face challenges.  We need to











                                                        136







                 at least provide them with certainty that they



                 will have the information they need on time.



                            We will hear at those meetings from



                 the Assembly particularly, how they believe



                 they want to reform the process.  We will hear



                 back home how they will support reform of the



                 budget process.  But what will happen is



                 they'll come back to Albany and turn their



                 backs on reform.



                            That's something that is a tragedy,



                 something that I believe Senator Bruno and all



                 of us in this chamber who support this



                 legislation want to stop.  We're providing



                 that with this vote.  And, Mr. President, I



                 ask permission to vote aye.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Nozzolio will be recorded in the affirmative.



                            Senator Fuschillo, to explain his



                 vote.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    You know,



                 I've listened to this discussion.  It's



                 certainly spirited and informing.  And I keep



                 hearing about we're giving up power, we're



                 giving up authority.



                            And I think about Joe Bruno, one of











                                                        137







                 the most powerful political and governmental



                 leaders in the State of New York, not saying



                 to these chambers:  "I'm not afraid to give up



                 any authority or power that I may have in this



                 Legislature.  I'm frustrated."  And I often



                 wonder what's in his mind to get to this point



                 to start off the year with this type of



                 reform.  But if it takes this, then so be it.



                            But what is it going to take to



                 bring the other party to the table?  Hopefully



                 this.  Because this man isn't saying "I'm not



                 afraid to give up my authority.  What I want



                 to do is allow us to do our job."



                            Well, let's do this for all the



                 right reasons.  And let's not forget those who



                 fall through the cracks.  And as somebody who



                 ran a nonprofit agency before he got elected



                 to the Senate, we had to stop taking in



                 clients who needed to be treated for alcohol



                 or substance abuse, we had to shut down the



                 child abuse center and work within our means



                 and go to the banks and start looking for



                 loans at great interest rates.



                            Let's do it for the school systems,



                 so they know how to budget for the upcoming











                                                        138







                 years and they don't have to cut back on



                 buying schoolbooks.  Let's do it for the



                 people who will get affected the most.



                            You know, we blame everybody.  And



                 we're doing it here.  And I'm hearing the



                 arguments on both sides of the table.  And the



                 Assembly will not come, because they say a



                 late budget is a good budget if we get all



                 that we agree.



                            Look what happened last year.  We



                 got our Majority Leader and the conference



                 committees, the mother ship, going to an



                 auditorium in the LOB saying:  Shelly, where



                 are you?  Shelly, can you hear me?  Shelly,



                 come down, do your job.



                            It's absurd, it's ridiculous that



                 it has to get to that point.  Let's pass the



                 budget, as John DeFrancisco said, because we



                 have a law in the State of New York that says



                 you have to do it by April 1st.  And then



                 nobody will get hurt by it.



                            I vote aye.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Fuschillo will be recorded in the affirmative.



                            Senator Little, to explain her











                                                        139







                 vote.



                            SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you, Mr.



                 President.



                            This is the first vote that I will



                 take as a member of the New York State Senate.



                 And I believe that it's a very appropriate



                 first vote for me to take for the people that



                 sent me here.



                            Late budgets have a negative effect



                 throughout this state.  They negatively affect



                 the over 100 towns and villages that I



                 represent, as all of you represent towns,



                 villages, and cities.  They have a negative



                 effect on the 53 school districts that I



                 represent.



                            This is something that we tried to



                 do when I was a member of the Assembly for



                 seven years, to get a bill like this on the



                 floor, and we were never able to do so.



                            So it is with a great deal of



                 enthusiasm that I vote in the affirmative on



                 an aggressive way of attacking one of New York



                 State's major problems, the late budget.



                            Thank you.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator











                                                        140







                 Little will be recorded in the affirmative.



                            Senator Montgomery, you will be



                 recognized in order.



                            Senator Lachman, to explain his



                 vote.



                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Yes, thank you,



                 Mr. President.  I've been recorded no on S1.



                 I will be recorded yes on S2.  They're two



                 different bills.



                            First I'd like to commend the



                 Majority Leader for bringing this bill back



                 from last year.  It is a one-house bill and



                 last year I thought was a first step towards a



                 more comprehensive budget reform bill.



                            Everyone in this chamber, everyone



                 in this chamber believes in an on-time budget.



                 Everyone in this chamber believes in



                 meaningful budget reform, whether we're



                 Democrats or Republicans or upstaters and



                 downstaters.  That is not the question.  The



                 question is how do we best achieve that



                 objective, and what is in the bill.



                            Now, last year's bill was a first



                 step.  And I thought that when this bill came



                 before this chamber, even without the approval











                                                        141







                 of the other chamber, you'd have a second step



                 and a third step in terms of improvement.



                            Now, I would suggest that we have a



                 bill similar to this, but that it should not



                 only be a compromise involving the minor



                 issues but really major issues.  I believe in



                 an independent budget office.  I don't believe



                 in a congressional budget office where



                 legislators participate.



                            I've never served in the City



                 Council, but at least their independent budget



                 office is independent of the mayor, is



                 independent of the comptroller, and



                 independent of the City Council members.



                 That, to me, means total independence from the



                 political process in the budgetary process.



                            I also strongly believe, strongly



                 believe in a totally transparent budget where



                 we know exactly where everything is and where



                 everything goes, and that this transparent



                 budget should also include discretionary items



                 where we don't know what is happening with



                 them or an evaluation of them.



                            So if we're producing a bill that



                 is supposed to be comprehensive, and all of us











                                                        142







                 want it to be comprehensive and all of us want



                 it to be on time, let's take that second step



                 which we have not taken.  I vote no on S1.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Lachman will be recorded in the negative.



                            Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her



                 vote.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                 Mr. President.



                            As I debated before, I think I



                 highlighted that there were many things in



                 this bill that I thought made sense.  And I



                 certainly understand and hear the frustration



                 of so many of my colleagues on both sides of



                 the aisle, about years and years -- 23 years,



                 more than 23 years -- of Assembly experience



                 and frustration as well as Senate frustration



                 with the fact that we don't get our budgets



                 done on time.



                            And there is no doubt that our



                 failure to do so causes harm and pain



                 throughout the State of New York at the very



                 local levels of our towns and communities.



                            But I also would argue -- and my



                 reason for voting no today is this -- we can











                                                        143







                 do better, and we need to.  This is the year



                 to move forward with budget reform.  But it's



                 not just a question of do we get a budget done



                 on time, it's a question of do we have a



                 better budget process and come out with better



                 budgets.  And I think that the proposal before



                 us today, S1, only starts to move us down part



                 of the road.



                            And I heard a great deal of



                 frustration that the Assembly has failed to do



                 this and the Assembly has failed to do that.



                 I don't represent the Assembly; I represent my



                 community here in the Senate.  And I would



                 argue that this house can do better.



                            And perhaps one of the reasons that



                 we have not been able to sit down with our



                 colleagues in the Assembly to move this



                 forward year after year is because we need to



                 come up with a model that is better than S1



                 and is more inclusive.



                            I share the concerns of my



                 colleagues that we shouldn't fall into a



                 default budget scenario where we do lose the



                 power of the Legislature to speak for our



                 communities in the context of the budget.











                                                        144







                            I do argue that while I am pleased



                 to see the Comptroller playing an important



                 role, and I think that would go a long way to



                 addressing revenue issues, that we still have



                 obligations in the context of the budget to



                 ensure that that budget is itemized and



                 detailed and that that information is provided



                 to the public in such a timely way that we can



                 have public discussion and debate.



                            That we need to, if we're going to



                 expose ourselves to changing the Constitution



                 of the State of New York to change our budget



                 process, that we need to ensure that we have



                 real budget conferences mandated in the



                 context of that, so that we are in some way



                 forced to do our job rather than finding



                 ourselves in the position of failing to pass a



                 budget on time or moving to I believe the



                 mistake of default budgets and the power of



                 the Governor.



                            We need to ensure that not only are



                 our budgets timely, but that we don't fall



                 into continuing extender bills and in fact --



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Krueger, speaking --











                                                        145







                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    -- the



                 proposal -- thank you -- for the default



                 timeliness --



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    -- of



                 timely, the chair notes that the rules provide



                 for two minutes.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    -- the



                 default --



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Could I



                 ask you -- and you've exceeded that.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                 I'm sorry I couldn't continue on.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Could I



                 ask you to announce your vote.



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    My vote was



                 no, Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank



                 you.  Senator Liz Krueger will be recorded in



                 the negative.



                            Senator Hassell-Thompson, to



                 explain her vote.



                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank



                 you, Mr. President.



                            The only comment that I want to



                 make as I vote no on this resolution is that











                                                        146







                 there seems to be this assumption, because we



                 argue and debate the fine points of the bill,



                 that we are not in favor here on the



                 Democratic side for a timely budget.



                            There is no one who has more



                 programmatic concerns for the people in my



                 district than I.  Even -- even to my new



                 Senator, who believes he has the poorest



                 district, I have the highest statistics,



                 negative statistics in the numbers of programs



                 for people where HIV and AIDS, the numbers of



                 young, teenage pregnant women.  I can go the



                 gamut and tell you the numbers of the programs



                 that are going to be dependent upon this



                 budget.



                            But even having said that, and



                 certainly one who has attempted to articulate



                 in this chamber the concerns that I have for



                 the people that I represent, a timely budget



                 is critical, for all the reasons that we've



                 stated.  But please do not believe because we



                 argue for a better process in this budget that



                 we are not as concerned as you that the budget



                 be on time.



                            I want a budget that's fair.  I











                                                        147







                 want a budget that's much more equitable.  I



                 do not believe that the bill in front of us



                 offers us that opportunity.  And so therefore,



                 Mr. President, I will be voting no.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the



                 negative.



                            Senator Montgomery, to explain her



                 vote.



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.



                 President.  I would just -- this budget



                 proposal that Senator Bruno has made for us



                 seems to have a tablespoon full of sugar,



                 which I accept happily, but it also has a



                 cupful of poison.



                            And I want to point out that in



                 Senator Bruno's own memo which explains his



                 bill, it says that the Governor would be



                 allowed to modify the operation of laws that



                 drive increased spending for a new fiscal year



                 in order to reduce spending to the prior



                 year's level.



                            So essentially the Governor has the



                 authority that we now write into the



                 constitution, based on this proposal, to take











                                                        148







                 money from this year's budget to fill gaps in



                 last year's budget.



                            In his memo it also says the



                 Governor would be allowed to transfer unneeded



                 appropriation authority to meet contractual



                 obligations for which appropriation authority



                 is insufficient.  So the Governor can transfer



                 money from one place to another based on his



                 determination -- or perhaps someday her



                 determination -- as to where it is most



                 needed.



                            Finally, in Senator Bruno's memo,



                 it says the Governor would be allowed to



                 uniformly reduce all appropriations not



                 necessary to meet contractual obligations or



                 statutory requirements.



                            The Governor we have given an



                 entirely new set of powers and authority based



                 on a whole new budget process, which we call,



                 in this legislation, the default budget.  I



                 think that this is unconscionable for us to be



                 allowing ourselves to discuss the possibility



                 of giving up our authority to participate



                 meaningfully in the budget process, and I'm



                 voting no.











                                                        149







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.



                            The Secretary will announce the



                 results.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



                 the negative on Calendar Number 1 are Senators



                 Andrews, Breslin, Brown, Dilán, Duane,



                 González, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,



                 Lachman, Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,



                 Parker, Paterson, Sabini, Schneiderman,



                 A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.



                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 20.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 resolution is adopted.



                            The Secretary will continue to



                 read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 2, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 2, an



                 act to amend the State Finance Law, in



                 relation to changing the state fiscal year to



                 May 1st through April 30th.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                 last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 11.  This



                 act shall take effect upon the effective date











                                                        150







                 of the amendments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator Bruno, that concludes the



                 controversial calendar.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 can we return to motions and resolutions.  I



                 believe that there is a privileged resolution



                 at the desk.  I would ask that the title be



                 read and move for its immediate adoption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Motion



                 and resolutions.



                            The Secretary will read the title



                 of the privileged resolution.



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,



                 Senate Resolution Number 65, amending



                 Section 1 of Rule VII of the Senate Rules, in



                 relation to the composition of standing



                 committees.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 question is on the resolution.  All those in











                                                        151







                 favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 resolution is adopted.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Bruno.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Can we ask for an



                 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in



                 the Majority Conference Room.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:



                 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in



                 the Majority Conference Room.



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



                 while the Rules Committee is meeting, I



                 believe there is a privileged resolution at



                 the desk by Senator DeFrancisco.  I would ask



                 that it be read in its entirety and move for



                 its immediate adoption.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read the privileged resolution.



                            THE SECRETARY:    By Senator











                                                        152







                 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution Number 50,



                 congratulating the Onondaga Central High



                 School "Tigers" Football Team and Coach Bill



                 Spicer upon the occasion of capturing the



                 Class C Championship.



                            "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this



                 Legislative Body to commend and pay tribute to



                 those who, by achieving outstanding success in



                 athletic competition, have inspired others and



                 brought pride to their community; and



                            "WHEREAS, It is acknowledged that



                 excellence and success in competitive sports



                 can be achieved only through hard work and the



                 demand of rigorous practice, teamwork and team



                 spirit, fostered by dedicated coaching; and



                            "WHEREAS, It is further



                 acknowledged that athletic competition



                 enhances the ethical and physical development



                 of the young people of this State, preparing



                 them for the future by instilling in them the



                 value of integrity, encouraging a standard of



                 healthy living, imparting a desire for



                 success, and developing a sense of



                 sportsmanship; and



                            "WHEREAS, Through its exceptional











                                                        153







                 teamwork and talents, Onondaga Central's



                 football team, known as the 'Tigers,' located



                 in Nedrow, New York, won the State Class C



                 title on November 29, 2002, at the Carrier



                 Dome in Syracuse, New York; and



                            "WHEREAS, Having moved from last



                 year's Class D competition to Class C, the



                 capture of the State crown was the second for



                 the Onondaga Central High School football



                 team, and concluded an outstanding record, the



                 only State champion to finish the season



                 unbeaten; and



                            "WHEREAS, In all that they have



                 accomplished, the athletic talent and superb



                 spirit displayed by this team is due in great



                 part to the efforts of Coaches Bill Spicer,



                 Paul Taylor, Jeff Pierce, Victor Zampetti and



                 Rick Bailey, Volunteer Coaches Dave Pierce and



                 Steve Louis, and the loyal and active support



                 of Onondaga Central's student body and



                 community; and



                            "WHEREAS, One such valuable part of



                 the talented team, with his extraordinary



                 speed, strength, and agility, is junior



                 tailback Mike Hart, who scored the 58th, 59th











                                                        154







                 and 60th touchdowns of the season and finished



                 with 29 carries for 199 yards; and



                            "WHEREAS, This extraordinary team



                 consists of the following gifted young men:



                 Hodges Sneed, Andrew Abbott, Ryan Hotaling,



                 Justin Graham, Richard Bova, Adam Legg, Don



                 Cummings, Matt Popov, Carl Runge, John Manley,



                 Chad Amidon, Ryan Clifford, Dakota McCann,



                 Mike Hart, Kyle Martin, Robbie Cormier, Dan



                 Germain, Zach Carrington, Zach MacCollister,



                 Brian Beacham, Todd Amidon, Marty Brunner,



                 Jacob Cummings, Cory Dill, Richard Beak, Todd



                 Gardner, James Sanford, Matthew Majewski,



                 Thomas Brownell, Caleb Golombiewski, Dan



                 Willis, Scott Campbell, Pat Neuman, Kurt



                 Wasilewski, Aaron Johnson, Steven Tiss, Felipe



                 Diaz, Brad Glaister, Adam Goodman, and Jesse



                 Schneider.



                            "They have proven themselves to be



                 an outstanding combination of athletic prowess



                 and discipline, reflecting favorably upon



                 their school, their parents, their friends and



                 their community; now, therefore, be it



                            "RESOLVED, That this Legislative



                 Body pause in its deliberations to











                                                        155







                 congratulate the Onondaga Central High School



                 Football Team and Coach Spicer on their



                 successful season, overall team record, and



                 capture of the State Class C title; and be it



                 further



                            "RESOLVED, That copies of this



                 Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted



                 to the members of the Onondaga Central High



                 School Football Team and to Coach Spicer."



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 DeFrancisco.



                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'm proud



                 to rise on this great occasion.  This is



                 becoming an annual tradition for this team to



                 win the state championship.



                            I first am sorry that you had such



                 a difficult time -- I understand there was a



                 fatality on the Thruway and you've been on the



                 road five hours, is that -- that's not good.



                 And I bet you're all hungry at this point.



                 And we've got lunch for you after we get done,



                 so this will be brief.



                            Many of the Senators are in



                 meetings now.  We expected you a lot sooner.



                 But they I know express the same appreciation











                                                        156







                 and congratulations that I express today for



                 the wonderful achievement you've done.  It's



                 amazing to have a team undefeated; but to win



                 two state championships in a row is just



                 outstanding.



                            The D division didn't want you



                 anymore, so they moved you up to C.  And you



                 took everyone on in the C division and won the



                 championship.  I think you probably should



                 just go straight to A at this point and don't



                 pass go and don't pass the B division, because



                 it's just a waste of time.



                            I read the resolution, I've looked



                 at it carefully, and I know all the



                 achievements of Mike Hart.  And I actually saw



                 the run that it's being called in the city of



                 Syracuse.  A friend of mine actually e-mailed



                 it to me.  And what was phenomenal about the



                 run was not only the athleticism of Mike Hart,



                 but there were some blockers out there too.



                 And the people that were blocking were just as



                 important as the wonderful run and the great



                 success that you've had.



                            So it's a team effort.  You should



                 be congratulated.  And I'm sure that each one











                                                        157







                 of you do as well with your grades as you do



                 on the football team, because that's just as



                 important.



                            So congratulations again, continued



                 success, and lunch is on.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 question is on the resolution.  All those in



                 favor signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 resolution is adopted.



                            Gentlemen, we congratulate you and



                 your coaches on your accomplishments, we



                 welcome you to the Senate today, and we wish



                 you well with all your future activities and



                 endeavors.



                            (Applause.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, may we please return to the reports



                 of standing committees.  I believe there's a











                                                        158







                 report of the Rules Committee at the desk.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports



                 of standing committees.



                            The Secretary will read the report



                 of the Rules Committee.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,



                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the



                 following bill direct to third reading:



                            Senate Print 528, by Senator



                 Johnson, an act to amend the State Finance



                 Law.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, I move to accept the report of the



                 committee.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All



                 those in favor of accepting the report of the



                 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those



                 opposed, nay.



                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.











                                                        159







                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, may we please take up Calendar



                 Number 26, Senate Print 528, which was just



                 reported from the Rules Committee.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 Secretary will read.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                 26, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 528, an



                 act to amend the State Finance Law, in



                 relation to variable rate debt instruments.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is there a



                 message of necessity at the desk?



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is



                 a message at the desk.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Move to



                 accept the message of necessity.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All



                 those in favor of accepting the message of



                 necessity signify by saying aye.



                            (Response of "Aye.")



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those



                 opposed, nay.











                                                        160







                            (No response.)



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                 message is accepted.  The bill is before the



                 house.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation,



                 please.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Johnson, Senator Onorato has requested an



                 explanation.



                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Senator, the



                 purpose of this bill is to save approximately



                 $51 million of the taxpayers' money --



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                 Onorato, why do you rise?



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President,



                 will the -- to expedite matters, will Senator



                 Johnson yield to a question?



                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Oh, sure.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The











                                                        161







                 Senator yields.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator



                 Johnson, is this bill agreed to by both



                 houses?



                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Yes, it is,



                 Senator.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you.



                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    It's a tough



                 question.  Glad I had the answer.



                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Explanation



                 satisfactory.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:



                 Explanation satisfactory.



                            Read the last section.



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                 act shall take effect immediately.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                 roll.



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                 is passed.



                            Senator Fuschillo.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is there any



                 housekeeping at the desk?











                                                        162







                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There's



                 no housekeeping, Senator.



                            SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



                 President, there being no further business to



                 come before the Senate, I move we stand



                 adjourned until Tuesday, January 21st, at



                 3:00 p.m., intervening days being legislative



                 days.



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On



                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until



                 Tuesday, January 21st, at 3:00 p.m.



                 Intervening days will be legislative days.



                            (Whereupon, at 2:25 p.m., the



                 Senate adjourned.)