Regular Session - March 18, 2003
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NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
March 18, 2003
3:08 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
please come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: With us this
afternoon to give the invocation is Reverend
George Grace, senior pastor of First Bible
Baptist Church, in Rochester, New York.
REVEREND GRACE: I had the
privilege of being here about ten years ago.
I don't recognize very many of you, so you're
new on the block.
But I want to say hello to Senator
Dale Volker, Senator Joe Robach, and Senator
George Maziarz, three good men that I've had
the chance to do business with over the years,
and commend them very highly.
Join me, if you would, in a word of
prayer.
Our Dear Father, we're very
grateful for the privilege to be here today,
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just for our lives. We treasure them so
dearly, and we thank You for that gift.
Lord, right now we want to remember
our young men and women in our armed forces
and their families. Lord, we recognize that
they are putting themselves between us and
danger. We thank You for their spirit and
willingness to sacrifice and to give for their
nation, and we ask that You would guide them
and protect them.
We pray for their families, for the
fears, the fear of the unknown and what may
happen tomorrow. Lord, I pray that You would
be with them and still those fears. And God
may all of us remember them and be in prayer
for them.
I thank You for these men and women
right here who serve us in Albany. Lord,
their sacrifice -- and I recognize that every
one of these people has a story behind them.
They've seen certainly some defeats in their
lives, but they've been victorious to this
point. And Lord, through their struggles,
they've come to this place to represent
hundreds and thousands of people. God, I pray
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that You would grant them wisdom.
I thank You for the privilege still
today to be able to come and acknowledge You
here in this Senate. I commend these people
for that, and I pray that it will continue.
Bless their meeting today.
Bless the great State of New York.
And we pray this in the Lord Jesus' name,
amen. Amen.
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Monday, March 17, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Saturday,
March 15, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson,
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from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following bill direct to third reading:
Senate Print 2935, by Senator Marcellino, an
act to amend the Environmental Conservation
Law and others.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the bill is ordered direct to third
reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports of state
officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Volker.
SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President,
on page 9 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar Number 74, Senate Print Number 662,
and ask that said bill retain its place on the
Third Reading Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if you could recognize Senator Robach.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Robach.
SENATOR ROBACH: Madam President,
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I just wanted to take a moment to thank
Reverend Motley [sic] from First Bible Baptist
Church, in the heart of my district, for
offering up the prayer today.
And not only he and his wife Penny,
in his prayer and focus here for us today, but
they really are holistic people who practice
what they preach and do so much in our
community for young and old alike, not only
talking about the goodness of the Bible and
being Christlike and caring about others, but
they live that every day in so many of their
ministries, in sports, in education, in so
many things.
And I want to thank him officially,
not only for his prayer, but really he and his
congregation enhancing our community so
greatly and being such great neighbors.
Thank you, Madam President.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go
to motion and resolutions, I'd like to at this
time move that we adopt the Resolution
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Calendar in its entirety. And then if you
could recognize Senator Maltese on
Resolution 774.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: All in
favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar
signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
Resolution Calendar is adopted.
Senator Maltese.
SENATOR MALTESE: Madam
President, a resolution is on the calendar
today recognizing the 92nd anniversary of the
tragic Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire of
March 25, 1911.
There will be an appropriate
ceremony held on Monday at 1:00 p.m., at which
all members of the Legislature and others are
invited. It will be held in the concourse.
And there will be a ceremony attended by local
firefighters as well as officers of the fire
departments.
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The Ladder Company 20 and the
officers of UNITE!, which is the successor to
the International Ladies Garment Workers
Union, will also hold an appropriate ceremony
on March 25th at Washington Square, which was
the site of the terrible fire.
Just a moment of history as far as
the remembrance of this tragic fire and the
146 poor immigrants that perished in that
fire.
At the turn of the century, urban
working conditions were terrible in the new
factories that were forming all over the
country taking advantage of the new machines
that were available, and nowhere in the
country were conditions worse than in New York
City.
Rows and rows of machines would
operate in very crowded, congested areas,
usually in slum conditions. Doors would be
blocked to keep employees from taking a break
or perhaps taking garments with them. All
over and around the machines were piles of
residue of the sewing machines.
The Gibson girls that were
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glamorized by Charles Dana Gibson were coming
into the fore, and the shirtwaist was adopted
as a garment that was recognized all over
America as the new garment of the
"type-writers," as the young ladies were
called who were beginning more and more to
work in offices as they left the home.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory was
an alleged fireproof building, which
unfortunately did not apply so much to the
interior of the building as to the brick
exterior. Just shortly before the Triangle
fire, a committee of owners had met and had
met with officials of the city, pressing their
point that sprinkler systems were really not
needed.
The ladies --
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Excuse
me, Senator Maltese.
Can we have order in the chamber,
please.
SENATOR MALTESE: The Triangle
Factory employed 600 people, the vast majority
of them women, almost all of them poor Yiddish
and Italian seamstresses. And the majority of
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the girls that worked there were as young as
13 and ranged in age mostly up to 17 and 18.
Many family units worked there, children,
sisters working there together with their
mothers.
On the afternoon of the 25th,
everybody was getting ready to leave their
working place after a long working day, from
dawn to dusk, when, nobody knows, but a fire
broke out on the eighth floor. The fire
quickly spread to the tenth floor, where the
executive offices were, and the executives on
the tenth floor were able to flee the fire
over the adjacent rooftops.
On the eighth floor, the majority
of the employees were able to leave by the two
small elevators and the two narrow staircases
that could accommodate only one person at a
time. There was an outside fire escape, which
was very poorly built and which eventually
crumbled under the weight of the fleeing
girls.
The fire spread very quickly, and
nobody told the people on the ninth floor. By
the time they gathered -- thinking they had
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more time because of the smoke, by the time
they gathered their belongings and headed for
the available doors, which opened inward,
there was a crush of employees and frightened
and panicked women.
They also headed for the two
elevators, and the elevator operators were
very brave and made eight and nine trips. But
ultimately, the panicked employees forced open
the doors and the young ladies threw
themselves into the shaft and made it
impossible for the elevators to come up.
Ultimately, the tragedy took 146
lives. And as a result of that fire, many
names that are now famous became more famous.
There was an investigation committee that was
presided over by Robert Wagner, Sr., who
became the United States Senator from
New York. The vice chairman was Alfred E.
Smith, who became the Governor. Frances
Perkins was involved in the investigation, and
she became the Secretary of Labor under FDR,
as a result of the changes that they called
for as a result of this fire.
Shortly after the fire, there was a
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memorial march of 100,000 people, mainly
immigrants, through the downtown area and in
the Washington Square area, mourning the loss.
It was a terrible fire, especially after it
came so shortly after the General Slocum fire,
which took so many lives in 1904.
The reason that UNITE!, as a
successor to the International Ladies Garment
Workers Union, remembers the fire is because
it was the forerunner of new working
conditions and new working regulations
throughout New York and the United States of
America.
It is a reminder to us of not only
the tragic persons that lost their lives but
also of the fact that new immigrants are again
working in sweatshops in the City of New York
and across various areas in the country in the
urban areas. It is a warning to us not to
repeat those horrendous working conditions.
And in remembrance of those 146
victims, we should not only say a prayer on
March 25th but remember their sacrifice, as
the immigrants of yesterday did so much to
build the heritage and greatness of this
1090
nation.
And, Madam President, I move the
adoption of the resolution.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you. The resolution has been previously
adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Crime Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee
in the Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you. Immediate meeting of the Crime Victims,
Crime and Corrections Committee in the
Majority Conference Room.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could return to reports of standing
committees, I believe there's a report of the
Finance Committee at the desk. I ask that it
be read at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson,
from the Committee on Finance, reports the
following nominations:
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As a member of the Battery Park
City Authority, James F. Gill, Esquire, of
Rockville Centre.
As a member of the State Athletic
Commission, Marc Cornstein, of New York City.
And as a member of the Long Island
State Park, Recreation and Historic
Preservation Commission, Barbara S. Bancroft,
of Muttontown.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move the
nominations.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
question is on the confirmation of the
nominations as read by the clerk. All in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
nominees are hereby confirmed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: I believe
there's some substitutions at the desk. If we
could make them at this time.
1092
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes,
there are, Senator.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 9,
Senator Velella moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Labor, Assembly Bill Number 4697
and substitute it for the identical Senate
Bill Number 1119, Third Reading Calendar 66.
And on page 15, Senator Alesi moves
to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
Assembly Bill Number 4417 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 1805,
Third Reading Calendar 180.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:
Substitutions ordered.
Senator Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Madam
President.
If we would just let the record
know -- I know it was a voice vote -- that I
vote no for the nominee for the State Athletic
Commission, for many of the reasons that have
been brought forth in Mr. Newfield's articles
about that commission.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
1093
you. The record will so reflect.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 46A, an act
to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crimes of unlawful failure.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
71, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 524, an
act to amend the General Business Law and the
Penal Law, in relation to operating an
aircraft while intoxicated.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
152, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1054, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and
1094
the Administrative Code of the City of
New York, in relation to the conversion of
abandoned vehicles by local authorities.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Paterson, why do you rise?
SENATOR PATERSON: I vote aye,
Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
168, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 1824, an
act to amend Chapter 706 of the Laws of 1996
amending the Social Services Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
1095
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
181, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1819, an
act authorizing the Commissioner of
Transportation to transfer certain lands.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
213, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2947, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to the reporting of child abuse.
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
1096
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is laid aside.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Madam
President. If we could go to the
controversial reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 46A, an act
to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crimes of unlawful failure to obey.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, might we lay that aside for a
moment. Senator Montgomery had a question on
the bill, and she's in committee.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside
temporarily.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is laid aside temporarily.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
71, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 524, an
1097
act to amend the General Business Law and the
Penal Law, in relation to operating an
aircraft while intoxicated.
SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Balboni, for an explanation.
SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you,
Madam President.
This bill is a bill that this house
has addressed beforehand. It is an issue that
truly is a loophole in the law itself. New
York State has done a great deal in making
sure that we get drunken drivers off the road,
drunken snowmobilers off the snow, but we've
done nothing to stop people from taking an
aircraft, that can certainly be the most
deadly of vehicles, and preventing people from
flying while intoxicated.
And believe it or not, though the
FAA regulates flying as it relates to
administration and licensing, there are no
criminal penalties for getting behind a
cockpit or getting in a cockpit while
intoxicated.
There have been several instances,
1098
one of them originating in New York, where a
pilot got in the cockpit of a plane, took off,
was intoxicated, and landed in a roadway in
Maryland, chasing cars off the road.
But another aspect of this, and I'm
developing legislation on this now, that this
bill is on the front end of an effort to try
and change the way we view private aircraft in
this state. In meetings with Jim Kallstrom,
he's identified rural airports, local, rural
airports as things of concern for us as it
relates to security.
And I think this bill, though not
exactly on that point, is a part of the
changing of the culture and perspective as we
view these recreational aircraft, that
hopefully we can take steps to prevent from
being turned into dangerous vehicles, and for
the protection of everybody in the state.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, if Senator Balboni would yield for
a question.
1099
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Balboni, do you yield?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, I yield.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm
honestly shocked to hear that there is no
federal law as it relates to operating an
aircraft while intoxicated.
Further, I just wanted to inquire
from you, do the airlines themselves have a
policy relating to the operation of air
vehicles while under the influence of alcohol
or some other substance?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes. Madam
President, through you, yes, they do, Senator
Paterson. And in recent years, the major
carriers have adopted a very strict policy
where there's zero tolerance for anybody who
would try to operate a aircraft after having
consumed alcohol.
As you may recall, back in the '70s
and '80s, it wasn't uncommon for pilots to
come on even commercial aircraft and have had
a couple of beers to relax before a flight.
As strange as that sounds, that's in fact what
went on for many years.
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That has now changed. People
understand the severity of that. And again,
you know, after -- the world has changed from
so many perspectives. And certainly after
9/11, that was another one of the aspects that
has changed.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, if Senator Balboni would yield for
one last question.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Balboni, do you yield?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Madam
President, I yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
because presumably the arrest would be made on
the ground, then therefore it would be
applicable in the state. This is not like
some legislation that I've questioned on this
floor where I can see the federal application
but I can't see the state one.
But I would assume, because notice
would be taken of the pilot's inebriated
status while the plane is still on the ground,
1101
then the state does have jurisdiction. Is
that correct?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, that's
correct. Obviously, it's a very different
situation once the plane is airborne.
This is actually meant to be a
preventive measure whereby if people observe
individuals trying to operate aircraft on
state airports, then they are able to detain,
arrest, and then penalize that type of
behavior. Currently, there's no provision to
do that.
SENATOR PATERSON: Madam
President, as I'm standing here, I did have
one last question for Senator Balboni, even
though I promised him the last one would be.
But he looks like he can take it.
Will the Senator yield for one last
question?
SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Madam
President, I yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you.
SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, in
addition to the pilots, I would assume that
1102
there's no federal law about the condition of
the passengers, which has been a problem even
since 9/11, people becoming unruly and
dangerous because they're in an aircraft. And
am I not correct that there's no federal law
that covers that kind of behavior?
SENATOR BALBONI: No, Senator
Paterson, I believe -- and I apologize, I
don't have the citation for you. But I do
believe that there are now federal rules in
effect that regard passenger behavior and
threatening of the safety of a flight.
And I know that those rules have
been employed in several celebrity cases as of
late, when there have been passengers who have
gotten very unruly and attempted to disrupt
the flight and they have then, as soon as the
plane lands, the FBI is there to pick up the
passengers and to remove them.
And I believe that in that case it
is very appropriately a federal matter, since
it is more often than not an interstate
jurisdictional issue.
SENATOR PATERSON: The planes are
flying.
1103
SENATOR BALBONI: The planes are
flying, that's right.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you.
SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you,
Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Is
there any other Senator wishing to speak on
the bill?
The debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
act shall take effect on the first day of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
will you please call up Calendar Number 4, by
Senator Alesi, at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you. The Secretary will read.
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THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 46A, an act
to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crimes of unlawful failure to obey.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: An
explanation, please, has been called for.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Madam
President.
This is a bill that has passed
almost unanimously for the last several years,
I think with only one negative vote. And it
seeks to make it a Class B -- a Class A
misdemeanor for failing to yield to an order
by a police officer. It makes it a Class --
I'm sorry, a Class B misdemeanor -- a Class A
misdemeanor for failing to yield when given an
order by a police officer.
And it also makes it a misdemeanor
for trying to evade a police officer when
given an order to pull over at an excessive
rate of speed.
And it also creates an E felony for
a circumstance where, under those conditions I
just described, someone has suffered a
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personal injury.
And I'd be happy to yield to
Senator Montgomery, as I anticipate a series
of questions from her.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank
you. Madam President, through you, if Senator
Alesi would just clarify for me a question.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Alesi, do you yield?
SENATOR ALESI: I'd be happy to.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
Senator Alesi, I just want to make
sure. I believe that you -- this is an
amended version. This is from the last bill,
the language has been clarified in here?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes. Through
you, Madam President, this bill, as superb as
it was last year in its design to protect law
enforcement and the motoring public, is even
better. It's been enhanced, with a provision
that creates an E felony for anybody who
violates a section of the law as described in
the bill in the event that there is a personal
1106
injury involved.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I see. All
right. Thank you.
Madam President, I accept the
explanation and the amended version. I will
be voting yes on it.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you, Senator Montgomery.
Is there any other Senator who
wishes to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
213, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2947, an
act to amend the Social Services Law, in
relation to the reporting of child abuse.
SENATOR BRESLIN: Explanation,
1107
please.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Saland, please.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam
President.
Madam President, this bill is a
modification of a bill that we passed in this
house last year dealing with the issue of
clergy abuse as well as the expanded reporting
of persons by currently mandated reporters.
What this bill does is it adds
clergy to the definition of mandated
reporters, thereby requiring clergy to
respond, under the Social Services Law, by
reporting incidents to the central registry
where they aren't otherwise protected by
confidentiality.
It also says that where in fact
those incidents should come to the attention
of a member of the clergy and yet not have
come to them by way of a confession, that
would require reporting.
It also creates a classification,
"persons in position of trust." And the
purpose of creating that classification is to
1108
say that there are persons, persons who would
seek to foist themselves on children and use
their position of trust to accomplish getting
into a close relationship with that child.
In fact, while many people may
think of pedophiles as being people who lurk
in doorways looking perhaps rather ominous and
wicked, the fact of the matter is that most
studies will tell you that that is really not
the profile of a pedophile. A pedophile very
often will be a person who is in a position of
trust, a person of some repute in the
community, a person whom a child has probably
been given good reason to have a sense of
comfort with.
This bill says that that person in
a position of trust, where they have the real
or apparent authority to exercise that undue
influence, will be subject to reporting by
those mandatory reporters, including clergy.
And what it says is that those
persons in positions of trust -- and the bill
defines, by way of illustration, who those
persons in positions of trust are. It talks
about athletic managers or coaches, talks
1109
about babysitters, talks about members of the
family outside of the household, talks about
members of the clergy, talks about people who
are really authority figures or people who
have the ability to unduly influence.
And what the bill then says is
those same mandated reporters who are listed
under the Social Services Law in 413 would be
required to report where a person in a
position of trust was guilty of abusing a
child. And child abuse is defined in the
bill, as it has been previously, and it covers
children up to and through the age of 17.
There is a requirement with regard
to the clergy, and what we did was we defined
religious institutions to include not only
organized and recognized religious
institutions under the Religious Corporation
Law, but also unincorporated institutions,
those that might be more in the nature of
perhaps small ministries, storefront
ministries, that might not formally be
considered under the Religious Corporation
Law.
What we then say is with regard to
1110
instances of abuse by the clergy that there
would be a 20-year look-back by clergy members
of a religious institution. They would be
required, within 90 days of the effective date
of the bill, to go back through those records,
determine whether or not there were any
incidents of abuse, and report those incidents
to the local district attorney or appropriate
law enforcement.
It also says that where a member of
the clergy is still engaged in the active
ministry, that look-back would be longer.
That look-back would be in effect for the
duration of that ministry. Some have referred
to it as a lifetime look-back.
What this is all about is
protecting children. What this is all about
is trying to expand the safety net. I think
in large part it responds to some of the very
tragic and heinous incidents that have been
reported in our media and national media
regarding abuse by the clergy. But it also
seeks to protect children in a fashion that
previously New York has not sought to do so.
The bill that we passed previously
1111
in this house required reporting by all
mandated reporters of all incidents of child
abuse. And if my memory serves me correctly,
that bill passed unanimously.
Some of you may recall at the end
of the last session there were some feverish
negotiations in which an agreement was reached
between the Assembly and the Senate, between
Assemblyman McEneny and myself. We quite
literally shook hands and were prepared to
advance the bill in the closing hours of our
prior session.
At that time, an issue came to the
front. That issue came through the New York
Civil Liberties Union and was on behalf of
Planned Parenthood and on behalf of rape
crisis counselors. And the concern, as
expressed at that time, was that there would
be -- the bill as agreed upon would have a
chilling effect on the willingness of
teenagers to avail themselves of the services
of these organizations, for fear that the
mandatory reporting requirement would result
in a teenage young lady being in a position
where her teenage young man would wind up
1112
being reported. And it came to be known as
"the high school sweetheart issue."
When the session ended, there was a
flurry of interest, certainly on the part of
the media, as to what prevented this from
closing, and everybody agreed that it was the
so-called high school sweetheart problem.
This bill addresses the high school
sweetheart problem, because those persons in
positions of trust are by definition adults.
And by definition, that eliminates the high
school sweetheart situation.
Let me share with you that some
approximately 15 states use a person in
position of trust as a measure in determining
some of their sexual offense or rape statutes,
generally providing for stepped-up penalties
where a person in position of trust has
engaged in that type of heinous conduct. And
in fact, I believe some 18 states require
reporting by virtually anybody and everybody
who has knowledge of abuse of a child.
This, I believe, is a measured
approach that addresses the problems with last
year's bill. And this bill really reflects,
1113
with the exception of the person-in-position-
of-trust response to last year's problem, a
number of agreements that were made with the
Assembly. And this bill, with the exception
of that provision, probably will mirror -- in
fact I do believe mirrors the bill that
Assemblyman McEneny has introduced in the
Assembly.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you, Senator.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Madam President,
I believe you have amendments at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, we
do.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President. I'd like to waive reading of the
first amendment and with unanimous consent be
heard on the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you. The reading is waived, and you have the
floor, Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President.
1114
Last session I, like many others,
was disappointed that this Legislature did not
pass legislation dealing with the issue of
clergy abuse. And I've been here long enough
to know that things can happen very quickly
here in the Legislature when there is the will
to make it happen that way.
But that that did not happen, for a
change, might have been -- not that it didn't
happen for a change, because it doesn't happen
a lot. But for a change, it might have been a
blessing. Because as soon as our discussions
on the issue made it into the media, I started
to get a large number of phone calls from
those who have been victimized by clergy
abuse. And I don't think that anyone would
disagree that this is a difficult issue to
deal with.
I want to thank my colleague
Senator Saland for not politicizing this
issue, for not being harsh with those that may
want the same end but may think that there are
different roads that will get us to the same
place of preventing clergy abuse in the
future, and also for providing for redress for
1115
those who have been victimized in the past.
The legislation that's before us
today I think is a very good first step, and I
commend the Senator for bringing it forward
today.
However, I think that more needs to
be done. I believe that more needs to be done
both in terms of exactly what it is that this
piece of legislation says when you look at
both the penalties and the scope of reporting.
And so the first amendment would go further,
both in penalties and for -- penalties for
failure to report as well as for the scope of
reporting.
Now, the bill that we have before
us today would provide that failure to report
is a Class A misdemeanor. The difficulty with
that is that there is no further incentive for
someone who may not be reporting to start
reporting. In other words, to only punish not
reporting with a Class A misdemeanor over and
over again I don't think is going to solve the
problem that we have in nonreporting.
So what my amendment would do is it
would continue to say that the first time that
1116
you don't report it would be a Class A
misdemeanor, the same as Senator Saland's
bill. But my amendment would make it that for
the second offense, that would be a Class E
felony, so there would be an incentive not to
not report again. And for the third offense,
it would be a Class D felony.
Now, this penalty is for everyone,
not just for clergy. And I think that that's
something we need to look at in how it is that
we treat all nonreporting, that as it impacts
on children we can't just allow second and
third offenses to be treated as misdemeanors,
we need to step up the penalty to a felony.
Now, I also think that the scope of
Senator Saland's legislation needs to be
expanded. There is a loophole which I think
could be very easily taken advantage of in
Senator Saland's bill, which my amendment I
think would be able to close. Under Senator
Saland's bill, while a clergy member or
whoever is alive and in active service, the
reporting would go back forever. That is
true. However, for a nonactive or deceased
member of the clergy, the records would only
1117
have to be opened for the past 20 years.
Now, first, it's easy to put
someone on sort of a nonactive duty, and there
isn't really a good definition of it. So, for
instance, a clergy member, while they may no
longer, for instance, in the case of the
Catholic Church be hearing confessions and
saying mass, they may still perform
administrative duties, they may still, if you
will, be employed by the institution. And it
would be very easy to move someone from active
duty to nonactive duty.
And I think that those persons,
that we should be able to go back 50 years and
see what has happened, not just 20 years. The
same is true of those who might be deceased.
And the point of my amendment is
not particularly to punish those who have
abused children, but to provide redress for
those who have been victimized and also to see
if there may have been patterns that have not
been disclosed.
Now, if you think back, 20 years is
not such a long time ago. That would be 1983.
And I think that we all know of cases where
1118
children were abused more than 20 years ago.
And chances are that an organization or an
institution that kept records for the past
20 years probably has kept them for much
longer, for much longer than that.
And again, if our goal is to
provide for redress for those who have been
victimized, 20 years seems like an awfully
near-past cutoff. And I also think that
whether the perpetrator is alive or dead
should not make a difference. Because what so
many victims need is a confirmation of what
has happened to them, that they were not
alone, that they weren't crazy, that this
actually did happen to them. And one of the
ways that we can find that out is by looking
at records to see whether or not other
victims, other children, came forward with the
same perpetrator.
So if our goal is to provide
redress for those who were victimized in the
past and to learn from past patterns of abuse
which may have been covered up, in an effort
to make it so that it doesn't happen to a
child again in the future, then we need to
1119
extend back 50 years and find out what has
happened.
And that is what my amendment seeks
to do, that for those who are not on active
duty, and even for those who records were kept
who might be deceased, that it would not be
enough just to go back 20 years, but we would
go back 50 years. And, similar to Senator
Saland's legislation, for those who are still
in the active ministry, to go back as far as
you can.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you.
Those Senators in agreement with
the amendment please signify by raising your
hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Brown, Dilán, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,
L. Krueger, Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,
Parker, Paterson, Sabini, A. Smith, Stavisky.
Also Senator Lachman.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
amendment is lost.
Senator Duane.
1120
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President. I believe there's an another
amendment at the desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes,
there is.
SENATOR DUANE: And I'd like to
ask that the reading be waived and unanimous
consent to be heard on the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
reading is waived. You have the floor,
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President.
The second amendment deals with the
ability of a victim to bring forward a civil
claim.
Under the current statute of
limitations, adult victims of child
molestation are barred from bringing a
lawsuit. And so what this amendment would do
would be to extend the statute of limitations
for a civil claim to three years. In other
words, there would be a three-year window.
Now, after the three-year period is over, all
claims that haven't been brought would again
1121
be time-barred from being brought.
And this is to address what we now
know, that many victims of child molestation
don't come to terms with their abuse and to
the psychological harm it may have caused
until later on in life. And that often
happens long after the current statute of
limitations has expired. And so because of
the way the current statute of limitations
exists, victims don't get their day in court.
Now, California has extended its
statute of limitations, and the courts have
not been flooded in California with lawsuits.
And so what this will do, under the guise
of -- not under the guise, but under the
ability to bring a civil claim, is to provide
for the ability to get actual, whether it be
financial or any other form of redress for the
abuse that may have happened, or simply the
recognition that it has happened under the
threat of a civil claim.
And again, the experience in
California, where the statute of limitations
has been extended, has not been dramatic.
There has been no rush to make claims. And I
1122
believe that we should follow the lead of
California in this area and allow victims to
have their day in court.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you, Senator Duane.
Those Senators in agreement with
the amendment please signify by raising your
hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Brown, Dilán, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,
L. Krueger, Lachman, Montgomery, Onorato,
Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, Sabini,
A. Smith, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
amendment is lost.
Senator Duane, for a third
amendment.
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, thank you,
Madam President. I'd like, with unanimous
consent, to waive its reading and be heard on
the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
reading is waived, and you have the floor,
Senator Duane.
1123
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President.
This amendment would ban charities
registered with the State of New York from
using charitable dollars for closed or what we
would call gagged settlement agreements.
A closed settlement agreement would
be defined as any private agreement or court
ordered agreement resolving a cause of action
which limits the possession, disclosure, or
dissemination of information about any part of
the agreement.
Now, this amendment would have two
benefits. First, when an individual or a
government entity or any organization donates
money to a charity, they should know where
their contributions are being spent. And if
charitable contributions are being made to
provide assistance to people, that money
should not be used to provide a financial
settlement to someone for whatever reason.
Secondly, those who are engaged in
basically covering up child sex abuse should
not be allowed to hide behind a gagged
agreement. I think the community deserves and
1124
needs to know. And that would help to prevent
these kinds of situations from happening in
the future.
This amendment did grow out of the
discovery -- unfortunately, here in the
Capital Region -- where Catholic Charities
paid a victim out of Catholic Charities funds.
And even though, when discovered, that money
was then quickly replaced in Catholic
Charities by diocesan money, it should not
have happened in the first place.
I don't think that that will happen
again. But I do think we need to enshrine
that in law to make sure that we are taking
our responsibility as legislators seriously
and protect those who contribute money to
charitable organizations from allowing that
money to be misused.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you, Senator.
Those Senators in agreement with
the amendment please signify by raising your
hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
1125
Brown, Dilán, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,
L. Krueger, Lachman, Montgomery, Onorato,
Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, Sabini,
A. Smith, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
amendment is lost.
Senator Duane, for a fourth
amendment.
SENATOR DUANE: Yes, for the
fourth and final amendment, Madam President.
If I could have unanimous consent to have the
reading be waived and to be heard on the
amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
reading is waived, and you have the floor,
Senator Duane.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you very
much, Madam President.
This amendment would allow for
criminal charges to be filed at the time close
to the sex abuse or eight years within the
time the child victim turns 18, or within
three years of the date the child discovers or
reasonably should have discovered that
psychological injury or illness occurring
1126
after the age of 18 was caused by the sexual
abuse.
Now, this amendment deals with the
ability to bring a criminal case forward, and
a criminal investigation. Now, the reason for
that is -- and we know this more and more from
the psychological science of what has happened
to those who were victimized in childhood,
particularly by sexual abuse, particularly the
trauma of sexual abuse. And that is that
after years of not being in touch with or
remembering or having full consciousness of
the abuse happening, oftentimes later on in
life, due to some other crisis or trauma or
because of therapy to deal with personal
issues, the memory of the abuse comes out.
And so this would allow for a
criminal prosecution to proceed of the
perpetrator.
Now, I recently had a press
conference where many victims came forward.
Sadly, there's such enormous pool that there
could have been a much larger number of
victims coming forward. Some are unwilling to
be public about it, and I certainly and I
1127
think we all can respect their choice not to
do that.
Now, to a person, though, their
coming forward about the abuse is not
particularly about the money, it's not
particularly about the criminal prosecution of
the predator. It's really about the
recognition of what happened to them and the
acknowledgment of what happened to them and
the desire for that not to happen to anyone in
the future.
Now, all of the amendments,
including this one, are tools which we would
have at our disposal to try to uncover cases
of past sexual abuse of children and also to
uncover patterns of sexual abuse of children.
But -- this is on a personal level, and not
speaking for the victims -- my outrage is not
about the perpetrators, is not about the
individual predators. Because in addition to
believing that what they did is criminal and
needs to be recognized as such, I also believe
that that kind of perpetration is a sickness,
a mental illness which needs to be treated.
And I feel very strongly that all
1128
of this legislation should be a guide towards
sending people into treatment that works. Not
treatment that just takes someone out of the
public eye, and not treatment that clearly
doesn't work, but treatment which I hope one
day will have a much more -- a better success
than the treatments that we now have seen in
so many cases.
My outrage, though, is really
centered on those who knew about the sexual
abuse, who hid that sexual abuse, who allowed
predators, who it seems many of whom seem to
be unable to control themselves, to go back
into positions where they could harm more
children. And that is a terrible, terrible
thing.
Now, this legislation has to do
with and my amendments have to do with
reporting and civil claims and criminal cases
and how it is that payments may or may not be
made.
But really what all of my
amendments, and what I believe Senator
Saland's legislation is trying to get at -- I
think his incompletely, but I'm willing to
1129
work with him. In fact, I would very much
like to work with him on taking a more
comprehensive approach -- but what it's really
about is hearing the voices of the victims,
acknowledging that what happened to them was
real and tragic and something for which we all
must take responsibility, and to make it so
this doesn't happen to any more children.
And so we need to take swift and
strong action on this terrible issue of clergy
abuse of children and make it our
responsibility as a Legislature that it will
never, ever happen again.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you, Senator Duane.
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
Madam President.
I want to thank Senator Duane for
those amendments to the legislation, which is
actually stronger than the legislation last
year. And I want to commend Senator --
(Telephone.)
SENATOR PATERSON: Tell him I'm
not here.
1130
(Laughter.)
SENATOR PATERSON: I want to
commend Senator Saland for his effort on this
legislation as well.
Madam President, who do we trust
most in our society? Our public officials,
law enforcement officials, our clergy,
teachers, health-care providers? Those are
the people who most disappoint us when there
is a malfeasance on their part, either
specifically or the notice of behavior that's
not reported.
And I think, though Senator Duane
has spoken very admirably for himself today,
that's what he puts forth and that's what many
of us are asking for.
How much more foresighted would it
have been if those in the highest
decision-making capacities of all of these
areas would at this point take a real
self-reflected look at what our conduct has
been as a society over the last 20 years, the
last 50 years, maybe from the beginning of
this country. Where there are crimes, it
doesn't matter who committed them and in what
1131
capacity. We have a duty to report them.
This is why I'm voting for the
amendments, because they enhance protections.
This particular amendments tolls the statute
of limitations until eight years after the
victim is age 18, giving them time to address
the perpetrators, those predators who violated
them, and also three years after the time the
individual becomes aware. Almost like in a
products liability case, you have three years
after you realize that there's something wrong
with the product.
Many people who have suffered from
this type of abuse have a dissociative
reaction in their personalities bringing on
amnesia, multiple personality, other aspects
of personality that shield or in many ways
obfuscate their ability to remember the
circumstance.
When a clinician has made it clear
that that memory has been returned only at a
later date, we want to give them three years
to bring those actions against the individual
who may have harmed them and may still be
harming other people.
1132
It's our view that regardless of
what happens to these amendments, that it will
send a message to those who in the past may
have even been dispirited and confused by
behavior they noticed that actually opens the
door for their reporting and brings criminals
to justice. That's what we've always said we
want to do here in the Senate, and here's
another opportunity for us to do it.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please signify by raising your hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Brown, Dilán, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,
L. Krueger, Lachman, Montgomery, Onorato,
Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, Sabini,
A. Smith, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
amendment is lost.
Senator Lachman, why do you rise?
SENATOR LACHMAN: Madam
President, I would like, with your permission,
to speak on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
1133
you.
Senator Lachman, on the bill.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Senator Saland,
after voting on the amendments, in all candor,
I want to state that this is a
precedent-setting bill. And I have to commend
you not only for sponsoring it but for making
it even superior to the bill we voted on and I
voted on last year in this chamber, by opening
yourself up to other groups, such as the
New York Civil Liberties Union, that now
there'll be a person of trust or authority
involved and there won't be the fear that
teenagers have.
And it's an excellent bill, there
is no question about it. But I would like to
also state that this bill does not refer to
any particular religious groups. It refers
equally to Roman Catholic priests, to Jewish
rabbis, to Protestant ministers, to Eastern
Orthodox priests, to Mormon elders. It cuts
across the entire stream. And that is why I
also think it is a superior bill.
So I'm proud to vote for this bill,
and I hope the Assembly will make the same
1134
changes in the bill that you have made.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Hassell-Thompson.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you, Madam President. On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Hassell-Thompson, on the bill.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: To
you, Senator Saland, with this bill I believe
that you have helped all of your colleagues in
this Senate to become enlightened, enlightened
to a major problem that is really rampant.
And I'm not really sure that many of us know
how deeply this affects so many people in our
society.
For the many years that I worked in
the substance abusing population, the numbers
of women and children that I've worked with
who were second- and third-generation abused.
Along with their own issues were deep-seated
issues of sexual abuse by members of their
family, by members of the clergy, by people
that they trusted most.
And what we've begun here to do is
1135
to say that we're going to put a stop to this
and put a halt to it. And for that I am very
grateful.
It is unfortunate that we were not
able to accept the amendments that Senator
Duane has offered us today, because for many
of us who may have been affected by the
behavior of those entrusted, it goes back more
than 20 years. And closure needs to happen
for people who have been victimized. And they
need to know and need to understand that the
fault is not theirs.
So therefore I commend you on the
work that you've done, but we must go further.
We must continue to look at this issue and not
be afraid, not be afraid of the people who are
perpetrating, but be afraid for our children,
against whom these crimes are being
perpetrated.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you.
Senator Diaz.
SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam
President. I would like to speak on the bill.
1136
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you. Senator Diaz, on the bill.
SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President,
fellow members, I rise to congratulate Senator
Saland.
I had the honor of serving in the
New York City Council for one year before I
came here. And now I have the honor of
serving in this State Senate. In both
occasions, both occasions, Madam President, I
got elected as a clergyman, as a pastor of a
church. So I'm not only a State Senator, I'm
a pastor. I'm a clergyman.
I'm the pastor of the Church of God
in the Bronx, and I'm also the president of
the New York Hispanic Clergy Organization.
That is an organization composed of more than
150 Hispanic pastors and ministers in the city
of New York.
Madam President, I'm saying these
things because this is a piece of legislation
that will affect me directly and will affect
the members of my organization.
However, even though this piece of
legislation will affect me directly, I would
1137
like to congratulate Senator Saland for such a
wonderful bill and to care for protecting our
children. This is a piece of legislation that
I will support blindfolded.
I only have one regret, Madam
Chairlady, only one regret. It is that I
would have loved, I would have loved to have
my name added to this bill as a cosponsor.
And I'm sad that my name is not there. And I
know it's late at this stage of the game, but
maybe, maybe, maybe -- who knows? -- my name
could be put in there.
And congratulations, Senator
Saland. On behalf of this Senator, on behalf
of the members of the New York Hispanic Clergy
Organization, we congratulate you.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. To speak on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you. Senator Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I also rise in support of the
1138
legislation, to thank Senator Saland for the
work he has done to move this forward and to
hope when we pass this bill today that we can
quickly move to conference negotiations
between the Assembly and the Senate to make
sure that this becomes the law of New York
State.
I do wish that we had been able to
include Senator Duane's four amendments,
because I think that they would in fact would
strengthen the bill. But I hope that we will
in the future continue to evaluate whether we
could look at these four amendments as
separate pieces of legislation, as this is a
dynamic process.
And to follow up on Senator Diaz's
comments about being a member of the clergy
and supporting this, I also appreciate his
comments because I think that sometimes, in
some corners, this legislation has been
perceived of as antireligious.
And clearly, I think, everyone in
this house speaks with parallel voices in
believing that if you want to assure the
future of the right to freedom of religion in
1139
this country, as we so often talk about on
this floor, it means also assuring that when
people participate in religion that their
children have the same protections, and in any
other situation in our society.
So I think that we actually move
forward with legislation today that in fact
increases our rights to freedom of religion in
this country while increasing our rights of
protection of our families and our children.
And I too wish that we had a
structure in the Senate where members of both
parties could sign on to bills that everyone
supports and could be cosponsors, because in
honesty I believe we would move more
legislation forward more quickly to
satisfactory end, and we would have more
successful conference committees between
houses, as I am sure we will have on your bill
and the Assembly bill today.
Thank you very much, Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
you.
Are there any other Senators who
1140
wish to speak on the bill?
The debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
bill is passed.
Senator Morahan, that completes the
reading of the controversial calendar.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
Madam President. Is there any housekeeping at
the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: No,
there is not.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Madam
President, there being no further business to
come before the Senate, I move that we stand
adjourned until Wednesday, March 19th, at
11:00 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
1141
Wednesday, March 19th, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:32 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)