Regular Session - March 25, 2003

    

 
                                                        1302



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                              March 25, 2003

                                 3:09 p.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







            LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary















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                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

                 please come to order.

                            I ask everyone present to please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    With us this

                 afternoon to give the invocation is Pastor

                 Bill Mayhew, from Faith Bible Chapel in

                 Millerton, New York.

                            PASTOR MAYHEW:    Let us pray.

                            Father, we come before You today

                 and we lift up our nation at a time of

                 conflict.  Father, we pray for comfort for

                 those who have lost loved ones.  We pray,

                 Father, for those who are still in combat;

                 those, Father, who are captive.

                            And, Lord, we thank You for the

                 privilege of our freedom, but these are days

                 that remind us of the cost.  So, Father, we

                 pray that as they are there, that You would

                 bless and strengthen and give wisdom to this

                 body as they make determinations even about



                                                        1304



                 their security.

                            So, Father, we ask that.  We seek

                 Your wisdom.  Lord, we ask that we be just in

                 our dealings with our troops and with other

                 nations.  And, Father, we ask that if it

                 please Thee, this would be a swift and

                 successful end to the present conflict.

                            Father, I pray that our nation

                 would pull together.  I pray that as diverse

                 as our views may be on these things, that we

                 would be as one.

                            Give us wisdom, grace, and, Lord,

                 we pray that soon we will have peace as well.

                 We ask it in Your precious name.

                            Amen.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

                 Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Monday, March 24, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, March 23,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, the Journal stands approved as

                 read.



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                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.

                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson,

                 from the Committee on Finance, reports the

                 following nominations:

                            As a member of the State Commission

                 of Correction, Frederick C. Lamy, of

                 Warrensburg.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Madam

                 President, I'm going to defer to Senator

                 Nozzolio to advance the nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  And thank you, Senator

                 Johnson.

                            That these -- today we are going to

                 be confirming first Frederick C. Lamy and then

                 Daniel B. Reardon.  Both of these

                 confirmations, the nominations come before us

                 as renominations, reconfirmations.  Both serve

                 as current members of the Commission on



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                 Corrections.

                            Before discussing individuals, I

                 just would like to say a word about the

                 Commission on Corrections.  And as chairman of

                 the Crime Victims, Crime and Corrections

                 Committee of this great body, it's our

                 responsibility to oversee the operations of

                 the Commission on Corrections.  And I daresay,

                 my colleagues, if we were reporting on their

                 performance, they should be given the grade of

                 A plus.

                            Under the leadership of Chairman Al

                 Croce, they, the commission members -- two of

                 which are, of the three, to be confirmed this

                 afternoon -- are doing an outstanding job in

                 working hand-in-hand with the counties across

                 this state, overseeing construction projects

                 in the hundreds of millions of dollars of

                 value, but motivated by doing the type of job

                 necessary to work with counties to decrease

                 costs, to build the most efficient and

                 effective correctional facilities possible and

                 doing so through their guidance in an effort

                 to save tax dollars.

                            Fred Lamy comes to the commission



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                 as an -- comes to this house for confirmation

                 as an experienced commissioner, skilled in the

                 issues of corrections.  Got that skill working

                 for a number of years as a sheriff from a very

                 distinguished county.  That he had served as

                 the Warren County sheriff for a number of

                 years and has been working in law enforcement

                 his entire professional career.

                            But together with Fred and Dan

                 Reardon, who is again to be confirmed next,

                 Commissioner Croce has, I believe, set forward

                 the best record that the Commission on

                 Corrections has ever had in its state history.

                 Gentlemen, thank you very, very much for a job

                 well done.

                            Particularly for this confirmation,

                 we want to thank Commissioner Lamy for

                 bringing to the commission the local law

                 enforcement perspective that is necessary, and

                 it is second to none.  That he has worked

                 tirelessly as a member of this team.  And that

                 as such, Madam President, I move his

                 confirmation.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmation of Frederick C. Lamy to



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                 the Commission on Corrections.  All in favor

                 please signify by saying aye.

                            Senator Little.

                            SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

                            If I may, I would just like to

                 speak in support of the confirmation of

                 Commissioner Lamy.

                            He is a resident of Warrensburg,

                 New York.  He has been -- spent his years in

                 law enforcement, many, many years of his life,

                 beginning in the Warren County Sheriff's

                 Department at the age of 21, in 1968.  He was

                 also the Warren County sheriff, elected four

                 times.  And he has been on this commission

                 since 1999.

                            Known as a strong supporter and

                 appropriate of cooperation among law

                 enforcement agencies, Commissioner Lamy works

                 well with all of the agencies throughout the

                 State of New York in his role as a

                 commissioner of corrections.

                            So it is with a great deal of

                 pleasure and it's an honor for me to support

                 his confirmation for continuing as a

                 commissioner.



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                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            I rise to support the confirmation

                 of Dan Reardon, who -- I used to represent

                 part of Herkimer County and got to know him

                 very well during that period of time.  And I'm

                 sure Senator Seward will also have something

                 to say later.

                            But this is a fine public servant,

                 someone with extensive law enforcement

                 background, from being a sheriff to a former

                 commissioner of parole, someone who we in the

                 Mohawk Valley are very proud of.  And we're

                 very pleased to see the Governor renominating

                 him for another term.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on the confirmation of

                 Frederick C. Lamy?

                            The question again is on the

                 confirmation of Frederick C. Lamy as a member

                 of the Commission of Corrections.  All in

                 favor please signify by saying aye.



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                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            And congratulations and best wishes

                 to you in this position.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the State Commission of Correction, Daniel B.

                 Reardon, of Little Falls.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Nozzolio.

                            SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Madam

                 President, as spoken very eloquently already

                 by Senator Meier, certainly we support and

                 endorse and echo his comments.

                            I know Dan Reardon has been an

                 excellent member of the commission, and that

                 certainly he has the unanimous support of the

                 Crime and Corrections Committee for his

                 renomination.

                            I know Senator Seward wishes to

                 speak on this nomination as well.



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                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            I think it's a real testament to

                 our nominee that so many people are jumping

                 the gun to speak on his behalf.  And it's

                 certainly very, very appropriate.

                            I've known Dan Reardon for many,

                 many years.  He's a constituent, a very

                 respected member of not only the Herkimer

                 County community but throughout the state of

                 New York.

                            And he has, over his lifetime,

                 exhibited just the skills that are necessary

                 for the position that he has held the last

                 three years as a commissioner of the New York

                 State Commission of Corrections.

                            He's had extensive background not

                 only in law enforcement, as a local sheriff, a

                 member of the Attorney General's

                 investigations staff, but also, in more recent

                 years, also has been involved with our prison

                 system throughout the State of New York

                 through his work as a commissioner on the

                 State Board of Parole and then, for the last



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                 three years, as a member of the Commission of

                 Corrections.

                            And I just want to congratulate the

                 Governor for making this renomination of Dan

                 Reardon for this position.  He's served very,

                 very well in that capacity, and I know that he

                 will continue to serve in the future.

                            Of all of Dan Reardon's extensive

                 background, I think the most important point

                 I'd like to make here today is that he used to

                 be on Senate staff, and that makes him a cut

                 above many others.

                            So with that, I just want to

                 congratulate Dan and his family on the

                 occasion of his reconfirmation as a

                 commissioner of the New York State Commission

                 of Corrections.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Madam President,

                 I just wanted to point out that I didn't make

                 a mistake, it's just that once again I am

                 ahead of my time and very cutting-edge.

                            (Laughter.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Moving right

                 along.



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                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

                 Senator Meier.

                            Does any other member wish to be

                 heard?

                            Then the question is on the

                 confirmation of Daniel B. Reardon as a member

                 of the Commission on Corrections.  All in

                 favor please signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            Congratulations, Commissioner.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

                 the Continuing Care Retirement Community

                 Council, Patricia M. Williams, of Ithaca.

                            As a member of the Council on Human

                 Blood and Transfusion Services, David Lynn

                 Wuest, M.D., of New York City.



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                            And as members of the State

                 Hospital Review and Planning Council, James X.

                 Kennedy, of Geneva; Lucille K. Sheedy, of

                 Warsaw; and J. Patrick Sheehan, of Larchmont.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

                 on the confirmations as announced by the

                 Secretary.  All in favor please signify by

                 saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominees are

                 all hereby confirmed.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco, from the Committee on Judiciary,

                 reports the following nomination:

                            As a judge of the Family Court for

                 the County of Erie, Rosalie Stoll Bailey, of

                 Buffalo.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 DeFrancisco.

                            SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I rise

                 to move the confirmation of Rosalie Stoll

                 Bailey for Family Court judge.



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                            Those of us who were fortunate

                 enough to be at the Judiciary Committee

                 meeting today saw an individual who has a vast

                 experience in the law, from representing

                 indigents in serious appeals in an assigned

                 counsel program in Buffalo, from being a

                 confidential law clerk for a Supreme Court

                 judge, handling complex matters of litigation

                 of a civil nature, and then being appointed as

                 a referee to actually structure an expedited

                 matrimonial part.

                            And that structure must have been a

                 pretty good structure, because her -- the

                 organization has resulted in 70 percent of

                 matrimonials being resolved through a

                 mediation process.  Which is absolutely

                 unbelievable.

                            She's now being nominated by

                 Governor Pataki, one of his fine nominations

                 for Family Court judge.  And I would move that

                 nomination and turn to Senator Rath for a

                 second.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Rath.

                            SENATOR RATH:    Thank you, Senator

                 DeFrancisco.  I would like to add my second to



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                 your nomination of Rose Stoll Bailey for the

                 position of Family Court judge in Erie County.

                            As many of you know, those of us

                 from Erie County, when we stand up on the

                 floor to speak of our friends who have had

                 this honor bestowed on them by the Governor of

                 the nomination, we all speak like we're

                 family.  And in many ways those of us in Erie

                 County are, much as you are in your own

                 regions and parts of the state of New York.

                            But let me say this about

                 soon-to-be Judge Bailey.  She was confidential

                 law clerk, as Senator DeFrancisco stated, to a

                 very close personal friend of mine and my

                 husband's, who as you all know is also a

                 Supreme Court judge.  So there is a special

                 camaraderie that comes along when you know

                 someone for over twenty years acting in the

                 capacity as confidential law clerk.

                            Rose Bailey has distinguished

                 herself, not only by her service to Judge

                 Wolf, but again, as Senator DeFrancisco

                 pointed out, writing and developing a protocol

                 for an expedited matrimonial part that's

                 serving as a statewide -- for a fast-track



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                 model.

                            And a 70 percent settlement rate?

                 Unheard-of.  My husband was good, but, Judge,

                 he was never that good.  I mean, he settled a

                 lot of cases in his years, but that -- this

                 is -- that's just extraordinary.

                            But let me take another little

                 point here to tell you a little bit about Rose

                 Bailey.  A graduate of SUNY Buffalo Law

                 School, editor of The Opinion, the law school

                 newspaper.  Don't we dearly love to have

                 people go into the judiciary who are paying

                 close attention to the law and what it means.

                            You drop down a little further,

                 some of her professional awards:  Lawyer of

                 the Year by the Women Lawyers of Western

                 New York; recipient of a Special Achievement

                 Award from the Erie County Bar Association

                 Matrimonial Law Committee; recipient of a Pro

                 Bono Award from the Volunteer Lawyers Program.

                            It reads like many of our resumes

                 read, but I had never read your resume until

                 today.  I am now triply impressed by how

                 you've managed to accomplish all you've done,

                 done it so professionally.



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                            And of course when my eye fell upon

                 your work with Kids Voting and the fact that

                 you were chairman of their speakers bureau, I

                 thought, well, now that is absolutely the

                 icing on the cake.  Because we all know how

                 important it is for the next generation to

                 follow along and understand what is so

                 important about our democracy and why we

                 should participate.

                            We have a scholar, we have a legal,

                 bright mind, and someone who has the humanity

                 and the touch with people -- as well as being

                 a wife and the mother of three adult children.

                            So I am honored to second that

                 nomination.  I congratulate the Governor,

                 congratulate the Judiciary Committee for

                 moving this along, and look forward to having

                 Judge Bailey as one of the bright lights,

                 another bright light to come from Erie County

                 from the judicial scene.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            Mary Lou, you did a great job, and



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                 I think you really said it all.

                            Rosalie Bailey is one of the most

                 respected attorneys in Erie County.  And as

                 Mary Lou said, she guided a system on settling

                 matrimonial cases.

                            And the funny thing is I didn't

                 notice too much about it for a while until it

                 dawned on me I hadn't heard any complaints

                 about delays in matrimonial cases a few years

                 ago, for the first time in about twenty years.

                 And it was primarily because of the expedited

                 case operation set up by then Administrative

                 Judge Dillon.  And of course Rosalie was the

                 person who was at the forefront of taking care

                 of that.

                            I just have to say that, you know,

                 her -- the judge that she was confidential

                 clerk to was a close friend of mine and a

                 neighbor from about two blocks away from me,

                 Judge Norman Wolf, who was one of the best,

                 brightest judges in the state.  And I can

                 assure everyone here that Rosalie Bailey will

                 likely and will also be one of the best and

                 the brightest Family Court judges in the State

                 of New York.



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                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            I am pleased to rise and second the

                 nomination of Judge Rosalie Bailey, who is

                 from Buffalo, unfortunately.  We're not

                 talking about Kings County, but we are talking

                 about Erie County, and that's important.

                            I just wanted to say, with regard

                 to this particular appointment, it's such an

                 apropos opportunity to say how much I

                 appreciate the fact that we're nominating and

                 confirming someone who is a woman and

                 certainly someone who has the kind of

                 sensitivity and experience that we would like

                 to see in a judge, especially a Family Court

                 judge.

                            And I certainly hope that someday

                 soon we are going to be talking about sending

                 the Family Court into the Supreme Court,

                 because I think it's important that we raise

                 that court to its proper position in our

                 system.

                            And it's also very interesting that



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                 we just happen to have a group of young

                 people, many of whom have also had some

                 contact with a judge, perhaps in Family Court,

                 and they're able to see how some of the judges

                 in our state are actually nominated and how

                 they come to their position.  This is one of

                 the functions that we do.  And these young

                 people from the Dome Project are watching us,

                 looking to see what kind of people we actually

                 are nominating.

                            And I'm happy that we have this

                 person who is a very, very excellent example

                 of the kind of people that we would like to

                 see in the courts, on the bench as judges.

                            So, Madam President, I'm just happy

                 to join my colleagues in seconding this

                 nomination.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard on this nomination?

                            The question then is on the

                 confirmation of Rosalie Stoll Bailey, of

                 Buffalo, as judge of the Family Court for the

                 County of Erie.  All in favor please signify

                 by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")



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                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The nominee is

                 hereby confirmed.

                            Judge Bailey, on behalf of the

                 Senate, congratulations and continued success,

                 and best wishes in your new responsibilities.

                            (Applause.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Judge Bailey is

                 accompanied this afternoon by her husband,

                 Tom; her daughter, Elizabeth; and her sister,

                 Jean McLaughlin.

                            Have a great celebration.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon,

                 from the Committee on Health, reports the

                 following bill:

                            Senate Print 3292, by Senator

                 Fuschillo, an act to amend the Public Health

                 Law and the Education Law.

                            Senator Johnson, from the Committee

                 on Finance, reports the following bill:

                            Senate Print 3218, by Senator

                 Johnson, an act to amend Chapter 303 of the

                 Laws of 1988.



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                            Senator Marcellino, from the

                 Committee on Environmental Conservation,

                 reports:

                            Senate Print 2036, by Senator

                 Marchi, an act to amend Chapter 395 of the

                 Laws of 1978.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Without

                 objection, all bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            Senator Skelos, we have

                 substitutions.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could adopt the Resolution Calendar in

                 its entirety at this time.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Motions and

                 resolutions.

                            All in favor of adopting the

                 Resolution Calendar please signify by saying

                 aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Resolution



                                                        1324



                 Calendar is adopted.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Social Services Committee in the Majority

                 Conference Room.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

                 immediate meeting of the Social Services

                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Are there any

                 substitutions at the desk?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, there are,

                 Senator.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 8,

                 Senator Marcellino moves to discharge, from

                 the Committee on Environmental Conservation,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3073 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 897,

                 Third Reading Calendar 126.



                                                        1325



                            On page 14, Senator Maziarz moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Health,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3538B and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2528A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 225.

                            On page 15, Senator Hannon moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Health,

                 Assembly Bill Number 6791 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2932A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 226.

                            On page 18, Senator Volker moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on

                 Investigations and Government Operations,

                 Assembly Bill Number 6205 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2430,

                 Third Reading Calendar 256.

                            On page 20, Senator Morahan moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Local

                 Government, Assembly Bill Number 1401 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 757, Third Reading Calendar 282.

                            On page 21, Senator Meier moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Social

                 Services, Assembly Bill Number 5390 and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



                                                        1326



                 Number 2929, Third Reading Calendar 290.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Substitutions

                 ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

                 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading

                 of the calendar.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

                 will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 129, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1447A, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 creating a New York health benefit and cost

                 commission.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 225, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Destito, Assembly Print Number

                 3538B, an act to amend Chapter 81 of the Laws

                 of 1995 amending the Public Health Law.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.



                                                        1327



                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 226, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Gottfried, Assembly Print Number

                 6791, an act to amend the Chapter 426 of the

                 Laws of 1983.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

                 passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 243, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 844, an act to amend the Tax Law,

                 in relation to the tourist home, inn --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

                 aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                                                        1328



                 245, by Member of the Assembly Bradley,

                 Assembly Print Number 2769, an act to amend

                 the Tax Law, in relation to extending the

                 period during which the City of White Plains

                 is authorized.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay

                 that bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 246, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 1561, an act to amend the Tax Law, in

                 relation to authorizing an increase.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay

                 the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 247, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 1603A, an act to amend the Tax

                 Law, in relation to authorizing the County of

                 Schenectady.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay



                                                        1329



                 that bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 263, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 3058, an act to amend the Tax

                 Law, in relation to authorizing the County of

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay

                 the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 264, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 3059, an act to amend the Tax

                 Law, in relation to increasing hotel/motel

                 taxes in Montgomery County.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay

                 the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 286, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 1562, an act to amend --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay



                                                        1330



                 the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 288, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 2952, an

                 act to amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 290, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Glick, Assembly Print Number

                 5390, an act to amend the Social Services Law,

                 in relation to eligibility.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.



                                                        1331



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 291, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 3283A,

                 an act to amend the Economic Development Law,

                 in relation to the creation of the NY-USA

                 Proud program.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Skelos, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 is there a message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Yes,

                 Senator Skelos, there is a message at the

                 desk.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the message of

                 necessity signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:     All

                 opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)



                                                        1332



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Lay

                 the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 292, by Senator Little, Senate Print 3284, an

                 act to amend the Public Service Law, in

                 relation to directing the Division of Military

                 and Naval Affairs.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                                                        1333



                 293, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 3285, an

                 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to

                 directing the Division of Military and Naval

                 Affairs to establish.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 294, by Senator Robach, Senate Print --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 295, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 3287,

                 an act to amend the Military Law, in relation

                 to waivers of professional continuing



                                                        1334



                 education requirements.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 296, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3288, an

                 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to

                 payment of payment funds through electronic

                 fund transfer.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.  Nays,



                                                        1335



                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 297, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3289, an

                 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to

                 directing the Division of Military and Naval

                 Affairs.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could go to the controversial reading of

                 the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The



                                                        1336



                 Clerk will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 129, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1447A, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 creating a New York health benefit and cost

                 commission.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:

                 Explanation, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Seward, an explanation has been

                 requested by Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill creates the New York

                 Health Benefit and Cost Commission, which

                 would be an internal commission with the State

                 Insurance Department.  It would consist of 13

                 members, three to be appointed by the Governor

                 and the Majority Leader and the Speaker of the

                 Assembly, one each by the respective Minority

                 Leaders in each house.  And also, we would

                 have the Commissioner of Health and the

                 Superintendent of Insurance serving as members

                 as well.

                            The purpose of the commission would



                                                        1337



                 be to review and issue a report on proposed

                 legislation to mandate a particular health

                 benefit to be included in health insurance

                 policies in New York State.

                            And they would go through a full

                 public hearing process, gathering all the

                 data, and make a report to the Governor and

                 the Legislature providing good, sound

                 information to enable both the public and the

                 Legislature to make informed decisions

                 regarding proposed legislation as it relates

                 to new health mandates.

                            The bottom line here, Mr.

                 President, is that this bill is designed to

                 ensure that health insurance coverage provides

                 the care and the treatment and the services

                 that people need, but also ensuring that

                 coverage is affordable and available.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Thank

                 you, Senator Seward.

                            Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If the sponsor would yield to

                 a question or two.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:



                                                        1338



                 Senator Seward, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed, Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Senator.

                            Could you clarify to me what the

                 timeline would be?  We would have this

                 commission that would have a schedule to

                 release a report by a specific date.  And the

                 assumption is that the State Legislature would

                 not go forward with any legislation regarding

                 health insurance until the commission

                 completed a report?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

                 President and Senator Krueger, upon the

                 written request for the commission to review a

                 particular piece of legislation, the

                 commission would have 90 days in which to do

                 their work in terms of coming up with the

                 information.

                            There is no prohibition in terms of

                 when legislation could pass or not.  That

                 remains the sole prerogative of the

                 Legislature.



                                                        1339



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

                 President, if, through you, the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Seward, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

                 for the clarification, Senator.

                            So now, as I understand it, the

                 commission would be active at all times and

                 upon request by the Legislature, because a

                 bill had been sponsored, they would then do an

                 analysis within 90 days of that bill.  Is that

                 correct?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    That's basically

                 it, Mr. President.  Under the legislation, in

                 order for a study to be done on a particular

                 piece of legislation, it would require a

                 written request on the part of the Governor or

                 the leaders of the Legislature.  And only then

                 would they review.

                            We have -- I know just in the

                 Insurance Committee alone, we have, most



                                                        1340



                 years, about fifty different new mandated --

                 health mandate legislation that are pending in

                 the committee.  The -- this commission would

                 only review those when there's been a written

                 request to do so.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If, through you, the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Seward, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, I will.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I'm trying to play out the pros and

                 cons of this.  So in fact, anything related to

                 a change or decision in health insurance would

                 go through this commission?

                            So, for example, a proposal for a

                 rate change or a change in the package of

                 health benefits provided by, say, a major

                 healthcare provider in the state would also go

                 through this process of the commission

                 evaluating that?



                                                        1341



                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President,

                 the only items that would be reviewed by this

                 commission would be pieces of legislation that

                 deal with adding a new mandate on health

                 insurance coverages in New York State.

                            Currently we have, in the law, some

                 21 services that are mandated and 12 providers

                 that are mandated to be included in health

                 insurance policies that are issued here in the

                 State of New York.  And this commission would

                 only deal when there is an addition to those

                 services or required providers.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    So, Mr.

                 President, if, through you, the sponsor could

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Seward, would you continue to yield.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            So if in fact this commission had

                 existed last year when there was legislation

                 put through on the Women's Health and Wellness

                 Act through this house and the other house,



                                                        1342



                 then the assumption is that that bill would

                 have -- actually, upon sponsorship, which was

                 of course several years earlier, that would

                 have moved through this commission because

                 that affected the actual coverage in health

                 insurance?  Is that how you perceive this

                 would have happened?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

                 President, this commission, had it been in

                 effect in earlier years, would in fact have

                 done -- would have done that review if either

                 the Governor or leaders of the Legislature had

                 requested them to do so.

                            They don't automatically do that.

                 It's only upon request.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If, through you, the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Do you

                 continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            So again, for my own clarification,



                                                        1343



                 this commission would exist and would be

                 there, but then upon the request of either the

                 Governor, the Majority Leader, or the Speaker

                 of the Assembly, any of the three, then the

                 commission would go forth with an actual study

                 of the cost/benefit, I suppose, analysis of

                 what the impact of this new requirement in

                 health insurance would be.

                            But, as you said, it wouldn't

                 necessarily stop the Legislature from moving

                 forward prior to that 90-day timeline for the

                 study to be completed.

                            Is that a correct understanding?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I

                 think Senator Krueger's statements are

                 correct.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            Mr. President, if, through you, the

                 sponsor would yield to one more question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Seward, do you yield to one more

                 question?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed.



                                                        1344



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            What would be the parallel, under

                 this commission model, when we put proposals

                 for legislative changes through the budget

                 process or the budget document rather than

                 through individual legislation?

                            For example, in last year's budget

                 there was funding for fertility treatments

                 included within the budget that hadn't

                 actually been a separate piece of legislation,

                 so that it wasn't even clear that there was a

                 90-day timeline for that.

                            How would your proposed commission

                 relate to legislative proposals that are

                 actually not freestanding legislation but

                 rather go through the budget document?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

                 President, that is a unique scenario that has

                 been outlined by Senator Krueger.

                            But my reaction is that if the

                 Governor or either leader requested this

                 commission to do this, that cost analysis and

                 benefit analysis on a particular new mandate,

                 whether it was part of budget legislation or a

                 freestanding piece of legislation, I think



                                                        1345



                 there's no question that the same process

                 could be followed.

                            And I might point out as well that

                 the commission could also do a similar review,

                 is empowered under this legislation to do a

                 similar review of existing mandates as well,

                 just as a means of providing information.

                            Mr. President, we as a Legislature

                 have dealt over the years with a number of

                 mandates to health insurance coverage.  We've

                 included many; many we have not.  And one of

                 the difficulties in dealing with this type of

                 a piece of legislation is that very often we

                 get conflicting information.  Advocates come

                 in and say that we could add a particular

                 mandate for a very low cost, and we get other

                 entities coming in to the office and saying if

                 a mandate bill is passed that it will raise

                 health insurance premiums by 8, 9 percent.

                            And basically what we're attempting

                 to accomplish through this commission is

                 providing an independent review that would

                 give this Legislature good, sound data, and so

                 that we can make an informed decision.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Thank



                                                        1346



                 you, Senator Seward.

                            Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I did say that was the last

                 question, but, I'm sorry, your information is

                 very helpful and it raises more questions for

                 me.

                            So if I could, through you, Mr.

                 President, ask the sponsor to yield for an

                 additional question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.  I

                 will shorten my answers.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    There

                 you go.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I

                 appreciate the detail of your answers, Senator

                 Seward.

                            It's a fascinating model that you

                 propose, and it raises the question to me -- I

                 guess two questions.  One, why don't our state

                 agencies already play this role for us of

                 being able to provide us information,



                                                        1347



                 including with our staffs here at the

                 Legislature, to come to this kind of analysis?

                            Why would there be something unique

                 about the issues in health insurance that are

                 different than how we go through the process

                 of every other piece of legislation that comes

                 before us and gets negotiated out or doesn't

                 between the two houses?

                            What's unique or different about

                 the issues of health insurance mandates that

                 would require this kind of commission when we

                 don't use that model for any other piece of

                 legislation that comes before us?

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

                 President, I would respond to the Senator in

                 this way.  I think what is unique about the

                 questions and issues that we would have this

                 particular commission deal with is the fact

                 that we have a situation in the state and, for

                 that matter, it's a national phenomenon where

                 we have a high number of insured people when

                 it comes to health insurance.  And one of the

                 factors that contributes to that is the cost

                 of health insurance.

                            And every time health insurance



                                                        1348



                 costs rise, we tend to have more people drop

                 out of the market because of not being able to

                 afford the coverage.

                            And basically what we are

                 attempting to do under this model is to --

                 before this Legislature adds additional

                 mandates that we have good, sound information

                 regarding what a mandate would cost or perhaps

                 what it would potentially save.  It can go

                 either way, depending on the treatment that

                 we're talking about.

                            And so I believe that because of

                 the fact that we are dealing with this

                 uninsured problem, that it behooves this

                 Legislature, when we're looking at mandates,

                 to have the benefit of the work of an

                 independent body that would provide us with

                 that good, sound information so that we can

                 make judgments on behalf of the people of the

                 state and hopefully, in the end, give them the

                 healthcare that they need but also in such a

                 way that it's affordable and available.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            Might I speak on the bill,

                 Mr. President?



                                                        1349



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    On the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            I appreciate Senator Seward's

                 responses to my questions.  And I do find

                 myself on the horns of a dilemma.  Because on

                 the one hand, I think that the issues that he

                 raises are important ones for us:  How do we

                 evaluate the costs of legislation that we put

                 forward, how do we make the financial analysis

                 for ourselves as a state government and local

                 governments and consumers of legislation we

                 pass?  And the fact that there will be costs

                 associated.

                            And that often we find ourselves,

                 when it comes to healthcare analysis, short

                 the answers we ought to have in advance of

                 passing legislation.

                            My dilemma is I would argue that we

                 should have exactly this information before us

                 on every bill we pass through the State

                 Senate.  That whenever we pass a piece of

                 legislation, we should have full fiscal

                 analysis of what the impact of that

                 legislation will be, both for the positive and



                                                        1350



                 the negative, for our constituents, for local

                 governments, for the state government.

                            And so my frustration is that we

                 ought to have that level of information in

                 detail available on every single bill that

                 goes through this house.  And yet we know we

                 don't.  We know that we look at legislation

                 every day and we pass legislation every day

                 that has almost no fiscal information attached

                 to it, no financial analysis available.

                            We don't even know perhaps what the

                 cost of this new piece of legislation would be

                 if we created this commission.

                            And so I do applaud you for

                 proposing a piece of legislation that would

                 create a system where we actually had the

                 answers to our questions before -- hopefully

                 before we debated bills on the floor and

                 passed them, and where we would have financial

                 analysis of the costs and the benefits and who

                 would pay for those and what the trade-offs

                 would be.

                            My frustration is that I would like

                 us to do that with every piece of legislation

                 that comes before us, and that not just in



                                                        1351



                 health insurance, but in a broad arena of

                 legislation.  I would argue probably

                 90 percent or the legislation that comes

                 before this house and our colleagues in the

                 Assembly, the real questions that go

                 unanswered are the fiscal-impact questions,

                 the mandates that we place on our ourselves as

                 a state, on our localities, the advantages and

                 the disadvantages fiscally for moving forward

                 with new laws.

                            So if I were to vote for this bill,

                 would I be inconsistent with myself believing

                 that we should have this level of information

                 on all of the bills that come before us, or do

                 I vote against a bill where I could see strong

                 arguments for it on the grounds that why

                 should we subset out one specific issue,

                 mandates in health insurance costs, to provide

                 this level of detailed commitment and work on

                 when we don't do that for the rest of the

                 bills?

                            So I'll wait and see if anyone else

                 speaks before they vote.

                            Thank you for letting me speak on

                 the bill.



                                                        1352



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Thank

                 you, Senator Krueger.

                            Any other Senator wishing to be

                 heard on this bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 225, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Destito, Assembly Print Number

                 3538B, an act to amend Chapter 81 of the Laws

                 of 1995.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

                 Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz, an explanation has been

                 requested.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.



                                                        1353



                            Mr. President, this bill extends

                 the effective date for the limited licensed

                 home care services agency demonstration

                 project for two more years.  It is set to

                 sunset on March 31st of 2005.  It also

                 requires the Department of Health to issue a

                 report evaluating the program on or before

                 April 15, 2003, and again on or before

                 February 15th of 2002.

                            This demonstration program was

                 created by Chapter 81 of the Laws of 1995.

                 And this program was designed to allow

                 certified owners of adult homes and enriched

                 housing programs to apply for licensure as

                 limited home care service agencies so that

                 they could provide additional services under

                 that license to their residents.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Schneiderman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield

                 for a few questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz, do you yield?



                                                        1354



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed, Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                 Through you, Mr. President.

                            I wonder if the sponsor could

                 advise us how old this demonstration project

                 is.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    This

                 demonstration project, Senator, was approved,

                 as I stated, I think, back in 1995.

                            Now, it did take several years and

                 much prodding by the Senate Aging Committee to

                 get the program implemented.  It was

                 implemented in, I believe, 1999, when the

                 proper reimbursement rates were set and the

                 procedures were approved by the Department of

                 Health and the reimbursement rates by the

                 Commission of Budget.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            And through you, Mr. President, am

                 I correct in understanding that this

                 demonstration project has been renewed through

                 legislation already several times, the last



                                                        1355



                 time being in 2001?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, the answer to your question,

                 Senator Schneiderman, is that you are correct,

                 yes.  It has been renewed on two occasions

                 since that time.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And in

                 each of those renewals, a report describing

                 the savings associated with the program and

                 other issues relating to its fiscal impact was

                 required, was it not?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 through you, the answer to that question,

                 Senator, is yes.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If I may be heard on the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    On the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    On the

                 bill.

                            I'd like to thank the sponsor for



                                                        1356



                 his cooperation in his responses.  However, I

                 must say the substance of the responses leaves

                 me a little bit at a loss.

                            I have with me the transcript of

                 our debate here from March 27, 2001, in which

                 I said to Senator Maziarz:  "We have renewed

                 bill in 1995, 1997, 1999.  When we did that,

                 did this include the same requirement for a

                 report from the Department of Health

                 describing the cost savings associated with

                 the authorization of these programs?"

                            Senator Maziarz once again said, "I

                 believe that it did, yes."

                            I then asked if we had ever

                 received the report, and the Senator told us

                 that we had received a status report on the

                 program but not the report that was required

                 by the legislation.

                            This is now an eight-year-old

                 demonstration project.  There is a report that

                 should have been submitted to us many years

                 ago.  When we renewed this in 2001, we were

                 told the report is on its way.  Then I find

                 that we have another renewal that comes to us

                 this year which originally, as the bill was



                                                        1357



                 drafted, required a report by February 15,

                 2003.  That was amended.  We are now voting on

                 an A print which amended the bill to give them

                 more time to provide that they can give us the

                 report by April 15, 2003.

                            There's something clearly wrong

                 with this program.  I'm not sure how we expect

                 to be taken seriously as a Legislature if we

                 authorize the renewal of demonstration

                 projects, require reports to the Legislature,

                 and then take no action whatsoever to enforce

                 the requirement that we're provided with

                 reports.

                            I don't know what is going on with

                 this program.  I don't know if we're talking

                 about incompetence, corruption, or some

                 parallel universe in which the reports

                 disappear.  But this has clearly, in my view,

                 gone too far.

                            We're talking about a program

                 started in 1995.  This is a very serious area.

                 This has to do with the delivery of healthcare

                 and home care services to our senior citizens.

                 There are a lot of people who are very

                 concerned with this.  Many of us have



                                                        1358



                 relatives who could be directly affected by

                 this program.

                            Why the Department of Health is now

                 working on the eighth year of a demonstration

                 project in a critically important area and

                 apparently has the inability to even deliver a

                 simple report is beyond me.

                            I voted for this extension -- many

                 of us voted for this extension two years ago.

                 That's enough for me.  I've had it.  I'm not

                 going to vote for the extension, and I'm going

                 send a record of this to the Department of

                 Health.  I do not understand what is taking so

                 long.

                            And, Senator Maziarz, I would urge

                 that the sponsor also undertake to reach out

                 and find out what's going on here.  Because

                 this really is a situation that requires us to

                 take some sort of action other than constantly

                 renewing a program that doesn't appear to be

                 getting underway with any sort of speed and

                 seems to be getting underway with an absolute

                 inability to account for itself to the

                 Legislature.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.



                                                        1359



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 on the bill, if I may.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    On the

                 bill.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I was rather

                 disappointed that my good friend and colleague

                 Senator Schneiderman did not ask this year if

                 the Department of Health had issued a report.

                            Because I have, right here -- Mr.

                 President, I was preparing to answer the

                 question that was never asked -- the report

                 that Senator Schneiderman I believe has asked

                 on at least two different occasions during the

                 course of this debate.

                            I will hand-deliver this report to

                 Senator Schneiderman as soon as the roll call

                 is done.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Now,

                 that is service.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Excuse me,

                 Mr. President, will the sponsor yield for one

                 question?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:



                                                        1360



                 Senator Maziarz, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    The sponsor

                 will certainly yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Senator,

                 is that a final report or is that a draft

                 report?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No, this is --

                 this is a preliminary report.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

                 Aaaaaaaahhhhh.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    After

                 eight years, a preliminary report.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.  Thank

                 the sponsor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

                 through you, Mr. President, if the Senator

                 would yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Certainly, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:



                                                        1361



                 Senator Maziarz, I was going to ask the

                 question about the report.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Oh.  Well,

                 obviously, someone then is out of script here.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    It's

                 quite all right.

                            But the question I do have to ask

                 you, when we discussed this, I found my notes.

                 And in my notes we were talking about, two

                 years ago, that there were 15 that were

                 licensed and 75 that were pending.  Can you

                 tell me how many licenses are pending at this

                 point?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    There are

                 currently 28 licensed programs.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay.

                 So between -- through you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator, please proceed.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you.

                            So between our last discussion of

                 this bill and now, we have additional programs

                 that are being licensed?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.



                                                        1362



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Part

                 of that same question, if you will.

                            Are we ever intending to make this

                 permanent?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Senator

                 Thompson, I would certainly support making it

                 permanent.  I would desire to make it

                 permanent just so that we don't have to go

                 through this discussion with Senator

                 Schneiderman every two years.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

                 understand.

                            My question -- again, through you,

                 Mr. President, the last question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    In

                 this report, the question that we asked

                 before -- and I'm hoping that the report

                 covers this.  But since I have yet to be

                 invited to get a copy of the report, I'll have

                 to ask the question.



                                                        1363



                            When we implement this report, will

                 it contain a series of penalties to the Health

                 Department or provide assistance to the Health

                 Department if that's necessary, to necessitate

                 the continuing of licenses and some of the

                 other concerns?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Through you,

                 Mr. President, I will deliver a copy of the

                 report to your office today, Senator.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you.

                            And the penalties to the Health

                 Department?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    There are no

                 penalty provisions within this bill to the

                 Health Department.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Thompson, do you wish to continue the

                 dialogue?

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I'll

                 wait for the report.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Great.

                 Terrific.



                                                        1364



                            Senator Krueger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

                 President, if, through you, the sponsor would

                 yield to a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz, do you yield to a question?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Please

                 proceed.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            So while I'm not on the appropriate

                 committee -- so I could, I suppose, assume

                 that I wouldn't have been offered a copy of

                 the report when this went through committee --

                 what's the date on the preliminary report in

                 front of you, Senator?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I believe it

                 was received in my office on March 12th of

                 this year, Senator.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Perhaps

                 more a comment than a question, but I'll

                 phrase it as a question.

                            Senator Maziarz, since apparently



                                                        1365



                 you were prepared for Senator Schneiderman's

                 response -- and again, I've only been here for

                 one year, so I missed all the previous

                 extensions -- why wouldn't you have shared the

                 bill with other members of the Senate --

                 shared the report with other members of the

                 Senate before we were going to vote up or down

                 on the bill today?

                            Because it seems to me, without

                 looking at the preliminary report, that my

                 evaluation of whether they ought to receive a

                 two-year extension on this program ought to

                 perhaps be related in some way to the

                 information in the preliminary report that

                 Senator Schneiderman has been waiting for for

                 so many years.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  Through you, I would say that I

                 was remiss in not delivering it to Senator

                 Schneiderman.  It clearly came in to my office

                 just recently.  I actually haven't even

                 finished reading it yet, and I wanted -- and

                 it is a preliminary report.



                                                        1366



                            But I did want to have it with me

                 today for this debate to give to Senator

                 Schneiderman personally.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Senator Maziarz.

                            If I could speak on the bill, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Krueger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Again, I am new to this issue and

                 the details of this particular pilot program.

                 But I think that all of us here in the Senate

                 should have taken a look at the preliminary

                 report, given the fact that it's been so many

                 years, and actually had an opportunity to

                 debate the findings of the report in the

                 context of moving forward with whether or not

                 to vote for an extension of this bill.

                            So I am saddened that we did not

                 have the ability to receive information that

                 might have been relevant to most of us here in

                 making the decision on the vote.

                            Thank you.



                                                        1367



                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Any

                 other Senator wishing to be heard on the bill?

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 225 are

                 Senators L. Krueger, Parker, Sabini, and

                 Schneiderman.  Ayes, 58.  Nays, 4.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 243, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 844, an act to amend the Tax Law,

                 in relation to the tourist home, inn, hotel or

                 motel taxes in Saratoga County.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Schneiderman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor would just yield for a brief question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Owen Johnson, please.



                                                        1368



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, we now have a series of

                 bills, Calendar 243 through Calendar 286.  My

                 question to the sponsor -- or to Senator

                 Johnson is, have the local governments

                 affected by each of these pieces of

                 legislation specifically requested the bills

                 we are about to vote on?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Yes, they have.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Thank you, Senator Johnson.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:

                 Senator Schneiderman, does that mean you

                 remove your objections to all of the bills

                 that you laid aside, in that order that you

                 read out?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    That is

                 correct, Mr. President.  In order to expedite

                 things, that was our question for all of these

                 bills.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Thank

                 you very much.

                            Any other Senator wishing to be

                 heard on that bill?



                                                        1369



                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 245, by Member of the Assembly Bradley,

                 Assembly Print Number 2769, an act to amend

                 the Tax Law, in relation to extending the

                 period.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                                                        1370



                 246, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 1561, an act to amend the Tax

                 Law, in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately on the first

                 month next succeeding.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT BALBONI:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 247, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 1603A, an act to amend the Tax Law, in

                 relation to authorizing the County of

                 Schenectady.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.



                                                        1371



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 263, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print 3058, an act to amend the Tax Law, in

                 relation to authorizing the County of

                 Montgomery.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 264, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 3059, an act to amend the Tax

                 Law, in relation to increasing hotel/motel

                 taxes in Montgomery County.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



                                                        1372



                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first day of the

                 month next succeeding.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 286, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 1562, an act to amend the Real

                 Property Tax Law, in relation to penalties for

                 late payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 62.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.



                                                        1373



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 291, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 3283A,

                 an act to amend the Economic Development Law,

                 in relation to creation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 32.  This

                 act shall take effect --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

                 Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 291.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            This bill is one of a series of

                 bills, several of which we've already passed

                 today, that essentially tries to ease the

                 transition from the workplace to the

                 battlefield.

                            Many people are perhaps not aware

                 that almost half of the U.S. military are what

                 they call citizen soldiers.  First of all,

                 it's an all-volunteer army.  That's essential

                 to consider.  But half of the people, when



                                                        1374



                 deployed, will go from their jobs as lawyers,

                 farmers, doctors, accountants, teachers, will

                 drop everything and will go overseas to place

                 themselves in harm's way.

                            This bill in particular is a series

                 of what I believe are common-sense changes in

                 the law that will enable our military

                 personnel to go overseas and fight for our

                 freedoms and safeties without having to worry

                 about their personal finances at home.  Let me

                 go through just some of the provisions that

                 we're talking about.

                            This bill would amend the

                 educational military -- actually, the Military

                 Law to provide for educational military leave

                 of absence and tuition relief for students who

                 are called to active duty.

                            It would expand the Human Rights

                 Law to protect military personnel against

                 discrimination.  It would permit military

                 personnel to terminate a car lease if he or

                 she is called to duty.  It would provide a

                 maximum rate of interest of 6 percent on all

                 obligations and liabilities while the

                 individual is engaged in state active duty.



                                                        1375



                            It would permit the suspension of

                 professional liability malpractice insurance

                 by military personnel while serving on active

                 duty.

                            It would create the War on

                 Terrorism Scholarship Program for children,

                 spouses, and dependents of New York military

                 personnel killed or disabled during a war on

                 terrorism or military action in Iraq.

                            It would permit the suspension of

                 loan payments for public employees who

                 borrowed against their retirement system

                 savings while the employees are engaged in

                 active duty.

                            It would authorize county-run

                 veterans' service agencies to provide services

                 to active duty, reserve, National Guard, and

                 militia troops.

                            It would provide the Governor with

                 an authority to issue an executive order

                 temporarily suspending for 30 days while

                 modifying specific provisions of any statute,

                 local law, ordinance, or rules relating to the

                 obligation of military personnel called to

                 active duty relating to the war on terrorism.



                                                        1376



                            It would create a New York-USA

                 Proud Employer of Distinction Award to

                 recognize companies that show exceptional

                 support for military reservists and guard

                 members, and establish the Patriot Discount

                 Program, a voluntary state-sponsored program

                 for merchants who agree to provide

                 reduced-price discounts for merchandise to all

                 military personnel.

                            It would provide free hunting and

                 fishing licenses for members of the Guard,

                 reserve, and state militia.

                            And, lastly, it would allow local

                 governments to hire back retired workers to

                 temporarily replace employees called on active

                 duty.

                            Several weeks ago, I visited the

                 Marine barracks in Albany and I watched a

                 Family Day, a deployment day for the 150

                 marines coming out of Albany.  And for me, it

                 was the first time I'd seen such a deployment.

                 And for me, it was seeing one aspect of the

                 face of war.

                            There was the soldiers standing

                 there in their fatigues, and their families



                                                        1377



                 standing around them, children hugging them,

                 spouses hugging them and crying.  And they

                 were afraid for many, many things, but you

                 could also see the anguish of what this was

                 going to mean to their basic family.

                            We owe these brave men and women

                 nothing less than to recognize their sacrifice

                 not only on the battlefield but to their

                 families that they leave behind.  These are

                 common-sense measures that I'm very proud to

                 be a sponsor and very proud to have before the

                 body today.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Mr.

                 President, if the sponsor would yield for a

                 few brief questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, I do.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, I'd

                 like to direct the sponsor's attention to



                                                        1378



                 Section 13, the provision providing the

                 Governor with the power to suspend the

                 application of laws, rules or regulations for

                 a 30-day period.

                            The statute is drafted fairly

                 broadly.  It says that whenever residents of

                 the state who are in the reserve or the

                 organized militia are ordered into active

                 service, the Governor can suspend any

                 provision of law if compliance with such

                 provision would create undue hardship for such

                 members.

                            Could the sponsor please provide

                 some examples of what this might entail or

                 what is anticipated by this broad grant of

                 authority to the Executive?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

                 through you, that provision is a catchall

                 provision that would allow the Governor to

                 insulate active duty members from some of the

                 potential hardships that might arise out of

                 various obligations.

                            It is patterned after Article 2B of

                 the Executive Law that allows the Governor to

                 declare the existence of an emergency and



                                                        1379



                 therefore provide extraordinary powers to the

                 Governor, and is only in effect for 30 days.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Balboni, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, I do, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Referring

                 to the 30-day limitation, my reading of this

                 is that the Governor can indefinitely extend,

                 without any check on that authority, for

                 additional periods of 30 days.  Is that

                 correct?  Or does it only provide for one

                 additional extension for 30 days?

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

                 through you, there are successive 30-day

                 periods in which this power could be given to

                 the -- or utilized by the Governor.

                            However, by concurrent resolution

                 of the Legislature, this power could be

                 rescinded.



                                                        1380



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Thank you.

                            SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 32.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 294, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3286, an

                 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to

                 authorizing additional paid leave.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, through you, if the sponsor would

                 yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                                                        1381



                 Robach, do you yield for a question from

                 Senator Schneiderman?

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    I would, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            The question is, what would the

                 fiscal impact of this legislation be if it was

                 enacted?  What projections have been done, and

                 what are the current estimates?

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    Sure.  Through

                 you, Mr. President, while there is not a

                 fiscal note on this bill, I think that one

                 could conclude, to use the example of, let's

                 say, a state policeman who was called to

                 active duty -- and let me just use this

                 numbers arbitrarily -- who perhaps was making

                 $50,000 and is now going to get paid $30,000

                 on military leave, what this bill would do is

                 put that $20,000 back in to make he and his

                 family whole during his time of service

                 overseas.

                            And I don't think there would

                 really be a fiscal impact per se to the state.



                                                        1382



                 These are only state employees.  As the bill

                 indicates, where the loss, if any, would occur

                 is that that person would not be completing

                 their job.  But the compensation to that

                 individual would actually be the same.

                            So while there may not be any

                 aggregate planned expense, where the expense

                 would occur is there would be no public

                 employee or someone else would have to be

                 covering that duty.

                            That's my interpretation of this.

                 There has not been an exact fiscal note done.

                 Nor do I know if there will be able to do one,

                 given the paradigm that exists to compensate

                 these people at their current level of

                 compensation during military service.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  If the sponsor would yield for

                 another question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Robach, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    I will, Mr.

                 President.



                                                        1383



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Has there

                 been any effort made to ascertain how many

                 state employees potentially might be affected

                 by this section in order to enable us, in an

                 understandable time of fiscal crisis, to make

                 some plan for the hiring of additional

                 employees that the sponsor has referred to?

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    There has been

                 an attempt.  I don't know if there's an exact

                 number.  This is ongoing and changing through

                 a number of different issues -- one,

                 primarily, the length of the conflict, and

                 also how many people are going to get called

                 up.

                            So we don't have an exact number

                 that I could give you concretely.  We're

                 hoping that that number is going to stay flat

                 and not go up, but no one really knows what

                 that is at this point.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, do we know how many



                                                        1384



                 employees have been called up so far?

                 Roughly, what we're talking about here, how

                 many state employees have been called up?

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    I guess what

                 we'd have to take -- through you, Mr.

                 President, I believe 5,000 New Yorkers are now

                 on active duty.  I'm not completely sure how

                 many of those are state employees, who would

                 be the only ones affected by this bill.

                            So I really don't have the exact

                 answer.  I guess my answer to it would be

                 given the circumstances, I will admit to this,

                 our focus was not on the finite number but,

                 again, trying to make those people whole,

                 similar to ones that I have in my district and

                 I'm sure you may have in yours.

                            Where, for example, I have someone

                 who is an EMT, who's an older reservist who's

                 been called to active duty, has a child in

                 college, two kids in private school, and a

                 wife who currently is not working due to the

                 slowdown in the economy in Rochester.  We're

                 trying to keep that family whole during that

                 time.

                            So our focus or at least my focus



                                                        1385



                 was more on getting this done, putting the

                 memorandum of understanding that the Governor

                 already has in compensating those people into

                 statute.

                            So I apologize for not having the

                 exact number, but that wasn't the exact focus

                 for me in this legislation.  But we are in the

                 process of trying to monitor that more

                 closely.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            Through you, Mr. President, on the

                 bill very briefly.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I think

                 everyone here shares the concern reflected in

                 this bill to, whenever it is possible, make

                 whole those who are undertaking a significant

                 sacrifice for their country.

                            I hope that with all of the bills

                 in this package, which I suspect are not going

                 to be enacted into law, that if there is an

                 opportunity to negotiate with the Assembly and



                                                        1386



                 actually do something that will become law and

                 affect the lives of the men and women who are

                 serving, that we pay attention in particular

                 to the broader needs they have upon their

                 return to our state and address some of the

                 issues that have been raised here in recent

                 weeks relating to employment, relating to

                 wages, relating to the delivery of healthcare

                 services.

                            Everyone here is concerned with

                 those who are serving in the military.  We're

                 also concerned with everyone else who is

                 attempting to hold their family together and

                 who we would all like to make whole.

                            I hope that we will see some other

                 bills come forward that actually are

                 negotiated with the Assembly that will effect

                 some of the purposes behind today's package of

                 bills.  And I'd look forward to being able to

                 vote on those later in the session.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Does any

                 other Senator wish to speak on the bill?

                            Then the debate is closed.

                            Read the last section.



                                                        1387



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator McGee, that completes the

                 calendar.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    May we please

                 return to the reports of standing committees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Meier,

                 from the Committee on Social Services, reports

                 the following bill direct to third reading:

                            Senate Print 3252, by Senator

                 Hannon, an act to amend Chapter 629 of the

                 Laws of 1986.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, directly to third reading.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, is



                                                        1388



                 there any housekeeping at the desk?

                            Mr. President, if there's no

                 housekeeping at the desk, I would ask that you

                 please recognize Senator Stavisky for a

                 petition to discharge S411 from the committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. President,

                 I have a motion at the desk, and I would like

                 to have it called up at this moment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            Senator Stavisky, you're asking

                 that we waive the reading?  I'm sorry.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Okay.

                 The reading of your motion is --

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    But I would

                 appreciate the opportunity to speak --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    That's

                 right.  Reading of the motion is waived, and

                 you're recognized for five minutes to explain.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    It will take

                 less than five, much less than five minutes.

                            Mr. President, back in 1986 we



                                                        1389



                 passed the EPIC program.  And in fact, in

                 2000, we enhanced it.  We increased the income

                 levels, we lowered the copayments, quarterly

                 fees were reduced for the low- and

                 moderate-income people.  And this became known

                 as the fee plan.  The other part, known as the

                 deductible plan, we provided a new measure for

                 people with higher incomes.

                            Under the fee plan, we had a low

                 quarterly fee for people earning --

                 individuals earning up to $20,000, and $26,000

                 for a couple, married people.

                            The other option has become known

                 as the deductible plan, and single people up

                 to $20,000 -- from $20,001 to $35,000, and for

                 a married couple, up to $50,000.

                            So these are the two EPIC options

                 that are available for older Americans.

                            We made it affordable then.  Now is

                 the time to make it accessible, accessible for

                 more people.  We have limited the

                 out-of-pocket expenses, according to Senate

                 Bill 411, to up to 5 percent of their gross

                 annual income.

                            What has been happening, Mr.



                                                        1390



                 President, is that the costs of prescription

                 drugs has been increasing between 10 and

                 15 percent every year.  People on Medicare

                 make up approximately 15 percent of our

                 population, but they use 35 percent of the

                 prescriptions that are prescribed annually for

                 people taking these medications.

                            Drugs make up the largest part of a

                 senior citizen's medical expenditures.  And

                 it's time that we reduce their out-of-pocket

                 expenses.

                            Unfortunately, federal Medicare has

                 dumped many, many seniors.  They got rid of

                 the so-called -- the people who are costing

                 the system too much money.  And unfortunately,

                 Congress has not taken up the slack.  130,000

                 New Yorkers in the last two years have lost

                 their federal Medicare -- have had their

                 benefits reduced.

                            EPIC has picked up some of the

                 burden, but not all of it.  And we find that

                 approximately 50 percent, half the older folks

                 receiving Medicare, about half of them have

                 signed up for EPIC.  They have over 300,000

                 participants.  But it's time to make it more



                                                        1391



                 affordable.  For many seniors, the

                 prescription drugs are nothing more than

                 miraculous.  They keep them alive, they keep

                 people alive, they offer opportunities that

                 never existed before for health care.

                            My amendment -- and I think it's

                 ironic that it's called Senate 411, as in

                 information number -- my amendment would cap

                 the expenses at, as I said, 5 percent.  For

                 example, if a senior is earning $35,000, they

                 could spend nearly $3,000 in deductibles and

                 copayments.  Under Senate 411, EPIC would

                 limit the cost to $1,550 per person, and they

                 would save approximately $1,200 a year.

                            Too many people have to choose

                 between food and medication.  Some have to cut

                 their pills in half to make them last longer.

                 Others will skip a day.  And that,

                 unfortunately, is very, very harmful to people

                 on Medicare.

                            EPIC was a bipartisan effort back

                 in 1986.  And the changes, the enhancements

                 back in 2000 again was a bipartisan affair.

                 And I think it's time that the members on the

                 other side of the aisle join us in this



                                                        1392



                 bipartisan effort to limit the expenses that

                 people face, as I said, at 5 percent of their

                 gross annual income.

                            And this, I think, will -- the

                 $170 million saving to the people who now are

                 covered under EPIC would be returned to the

                 community.  This is not maybe money.  The

                 $170 million that people will be saving will

                 be in the economy, they will be using it to

                 buy food, to buy clothing and other

                 necessities in the community.  There's no

                 question that this is going to stimulate the

                 economy and it will return itself many, many

                 fold.

                            So, Mr. President, I urge that this

                 amendment -- this legislation be adopted.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 before you canvass the membership, there will

                 be, following session, an immediate conference

                 of the Majority in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:



                                                        1393



                 Immediate conversation of the Majority in the

                 Majority Conference Room following session.

                            Senator Onorato, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President,

                 I'd like to announce that there will be a

                 Minority conference immediately following

                 session.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Conference of the Minority in the Minority

                 Conference Room immediately following session.

                            Will those Senators in agreement

                 now with the motion to petition out of

                 committee please signify by raising your hand.

                 Please leave it up so that the clerk can get

                 an accurate count.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 agreement are Senators Andrew, Breslin, Brown,

                 Dilán, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,

                 Lachman, Montgomery, Onorato, Parker,

                 Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman,

                 M. Smith, and Stavisky.  Also Senator

                 Stachowski.  Also Senator A. Smith.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 petition is lost.

                            Senator Skelos.



                                                        1394



                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 there being no further business to come before

                 the Senate, I move we stand adjourned until

                 Wednesday, March 26th, at 11:00 a.m.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Wednesday, March 26th, at 11:00 a.m.

                            (Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)