Regular Session - January 20, 2004
121
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
January 20, 2004
3:06 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
122
P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
please come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of
silence, please.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Monday, January 19, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Sunday,
January 18, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
123
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
President.
On behalf of Senator Volker, on
page 4 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar 5, Senate Print 5883, and I ask that
that bill retain its place.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Larkin, Madam President, on page 4 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar 8,
Senate Print 1382, and I ask that that bill
retain its place.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
124
Senator Spano, Madam President, on page 8 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 50, Senate Print 3704, and I ask that
that bill retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Little, on page 9 I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 61,
Senate Print 1414, and I ask that that bill
retain its place.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Rules Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
125
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: While we're on
motions and resolutions, I believe there's a
substitution at the desk, if we could make it
at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Motions and
resolutions.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 10,
Senator Leibell moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Civil Service and Pensions,
Assembly Bill Number 9349 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 5893,
Third Reading Calendar 64.
THE PRESIDENT: Substitution
ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
I believe there are four privileged
resolutions at the desk by Senator Kruger.
Could we have the titles read and move for
their immediate adoption.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
126
Kruger, Legislative Resolution Number 3152,
commending Tommy and Perrie Gelb upon the
occasion of their being honored by Masores
Bais Yaakov with the Hakoras Hatov
Presentation at its 16th Annual Dinner on
January 21, 2004.
By Senator Kruger, Legislative
Resolution Number 3153, commending Rabbi and
Mrs. Eli Shulman upon the occasion of their
designation by Masores Bais Yaakov as the
recipients of the Harbotzas Torah Award at its
16th Annual Dinner on January 21, 2004.
By Senator Kruger, Legislative
Resolution Number 3154, commending Sruli and
Miriam Schubert upon the occasion of their
designation by the Masores Bais Yaakov as the
recipients of the Keser Shem Tov Award at its
16th Annual Dinner on January 21, 2004.
And by Senator Kruger, Legislative
Resolution Number 3155, commending Zevi and
Lilliane Samel upon the occasion of their
designation by Masores Bais Yaakov as the
recipients of the Parents of the Year Award at
its 16th Annual Dinner on January 21, 2004.
THE PRESIDENT: On the
127
resolutions, all in favor please signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The resolutions
are adopted.
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Madam
President. I would move that the following
bill be discharged from its committee and be
recommitted with instructions to strike the
enacting clause: Senate Number 1024, by
Senator A. Smith.
THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And, Madam
President, I'd also like to acknowledge that
we are honored today to have a visit from the
consul general of the Dominican Republic, Jose
Pimentel; the vice consul; and other
colleagues.
Bienvenidos, amigos.
We are very, very honored by their
presence and welcome them here, and I'm
pleased to show them the courtesy of the
128
house.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can we at this time have the noncontroversial
reading of the calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5659, an
act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
relation to the collection and disposition of
delinquent taxes.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
act shall take effect on the first of January.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 294, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
129
the inclusion of fiscal notes.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
39, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2945, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in
relation to the receiving of business records.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
42, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3827A, an
act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and
the Family Court Act, in relation to evidence
of identification.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
130
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
63, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5871, an
act to amend Chapter 729 of the Laws of 1994
relating to affecting the health insurance
benefits and contributions.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect May 15, 2004.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
64, substituted earlier today by Member of the
131
Assembly Sweeney, Assembly Print Number 9349,
an act to amend the Retirement and Social
Security Law, in relation to employment.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can I ask for an immediate meeting of the
Banking Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Banking Committee in
the Majority Conference Room.
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
Senator Bruno, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can we at this time have the controversial
reading of the calendar.
132
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 294, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
the inclusion of fiscal notes.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you,
Madam President.
This is a bill that we passed and
debated last year. It's a bill that's
sponsored in the Assembly by Assemblyman
Schimminger. It's a very simple bill but yet
is probably one of the more important bills
that this house can pass, that I believe would
give us the kinds of information and the
public the kinds of information it needs in
making public policy decisions.
The bill would, for the State
University, City University, and the Board of
Regents, mandate that prior to the adoption of
any resolution or alteration or amendment to
133
their rules or regulations that, where they
are expending money, that they must attach to
their resolution a fiscal note. And that's
something that we do here in the Legislature
and I think it's very, very important.
This bill, as I have indicated,
deals with SUNY, CUNY, and the Board of
Regents. The question that has come up, and
we talked about this in last year's debate, is
that the increase in the Regents standards --
and the question from our local school boards
and taxpayers is that there was a mandate.
And the question was how much was
that mandate. How much do we, in terms of our
state aid formulas, need to generate to cover
that mandate, and how much must our local
school districts generate to cover that
mandate.
The same is true when something is
passed by resolution by the SUNY board or the
CUNY board, and a program, and then we as a
Legislature are required to give that system
additional aid to deal with that program.
And so as I indicated at the onset,
we really, I believe, will help in the
134
process, by disseminating information, in
making better public policy. Disclosure is
never bad. The more light we shed on the
process, the better it is, because it provokes
public debate and discussion on whether too
little money is being allocated, too much is
being allocated for a particular purpose.
But we should not be flying in the
dark by not knowing how much a resolution that
is passed by the SUNY board, the CUNY board,
or the Board of Regents, what the effect that
will be on us as a Legislature or on the local
taxpayer.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Oppenheimer.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you,
Senator -- Madam President.
I have really just one question for
the sponsor if he would yield for a question.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle,
will you yield for a question?
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, I will.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
Senator LaValle.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The
135
question is -- I see I voted against it last
year. And I guess the problem I had last
year -- and it's still a problem, so I have to
question you -- is why are we singling out
just SUNY, CUNY, and the Board of Regents?
Why aren't we applying -- I mean, actually,
that's why I voted against it.
If we were to apply this to all of
our agencies, I could strongly support it. I
think transparency is fabulous. But I don't
understand why we just selected these three
for special treatment.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator, as you
know, as we introduce legislation, as
individual sponsors we focus on a particular
problem because of our committee
responsibilities.
Being chairman of the Senate
Committee on Higher Education, member of the
Education Committee, I felt that the input
that I was getting over and over again, both
locally and from members, when it dealt with
higher education, you know, why do we have to
increase X aid to the City University or the
State University? You have to go back and
136
look at the programs that they enacted.
I am sure locally in your district
when the Regents standards were enacted that
you were asked over and over again, you know,
where's the money coming from? How much money
is this going to cost?
And so in doing due diligence, we
tried to find out when we could have, at the
very beginning, should we have had that
information.
This might be -- you might
introduce a bill to do it for all state
agencies. And it may not be a bad idea. But
here, because of my responsibilities and
interests, the interests of people in the
district I represent, it was very, very
important to isolate this into these three
areas.
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That
definitely clarifies. Thank you, Senator.
And I think the Senator has
specifically said what was concerning me. And
of course, since he's chair of the Higher
Education Senate Committee, that is why he has
introduced this bill. And I may just support
137
it now.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard on this bill?
Then the debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
2. Senators Andrews and Hassell-Thompson
recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam
President. If I could have unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 39.
THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
objection, you will be so recorded as voting
in the negative, Senator.
Senator Bruno, that completes the
reading of the controversial calendar.
138
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can we at this time return to the reports of
standing committees.
And I believe that there is a
report from the Rules Committee at the desk.
I ask that it be read now.
THE PRESIDENT: Reports of
standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
from the Committee on Rules, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print Number 1A, by Senator
Bruno, Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Article 7 of
the Constitution.
And Senate Print 2A, by Senator
Bruno, an act to amend the State Finance Law.
Both bills ordered direct to third
reading.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: I move to accept
the report of the Rules Committee.
THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of
accepting the Rules report please signify by
139
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The report is
adopted.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can we at this time take up Calendar Number
66.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
66, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 2A, an act
to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to
changing the state fiscal year to May 1st
through April 30th.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno, an
explanation has been requested.
SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Madam
President and colleagues.
This bill before us relates to
budget reform. This is in bill form, change
140
the law. And following this, we hope to take
up a resolution that would make the law
permanent by changing the Constitution, going
through the due process.
But on this specific bill before
us, I would ask again for your support. I
believe this is the tenth time that we are
doing a budget reform bill as part of the
first or second bill that we do in the Senate.
And it's no secret to any of us in
the process that the budget negotiations, as
it presently exists, doesn't work. This is
18 years -- we're in the 19th year -- when we
have not had an on-time budget. So if you
can't get it done in 18 years, through a
couple of governors and speakers and leaders
here in this house, it doesn't work.
So we need to mandate a change,
because what sets the tone for all the people
of this state is our budget. And it's
important to get a budget that is done on
time, in a professional manner. And this is
the year to get that done.
Now, the Assembly, last year, did a
budget reform package. We have incorporated,
141
I believe, a lot of what has the Assembly has
done. The Governor has prioritized, has done
it again as he presented his budget earlier
today, to get a budget reform package in
place.
Here's what this does, in two
minutes. Moves the whole process up. It just
moves the process up. Starts October 15th,
meeting with agencies, getting all the
information. By November 15th, we start the
process of negotiating and deliberating and
refining the information. Where we many
times -- well, then the Governor submits his
budget, instead of by January 20th, by
January 15th.
So you start in October instead of
starting in January, and continue through
November. And when the Governor submits his
budget, we usually get hung up on revenues,
what is available to budget. We always get
hung up on that.
So what we are saying in this bill
is that let the Comptroller, elected by the
people of this state, be the arbitrator. So
that if we can't agree by -- one date says
142
March 1st. It may be March 5th. But by
March 5th, the latest -- is it the 1st or the
5th? It's in two different places.
If by March 1st we don't come to an
agreement among ourselves, then by the 5th --
thank you -- the Comptroller will arbitrate a
number. And that kicks us into the public
process of conference committees by
March 16th. We'll have an open public
discussion of the budget.
Now, if we come to an agreement, we
have a budget by May 1st. Not April 1st,
May 1st. If we don't come to an agreement by
May 1st, last year's budget kicks in. We'll
have a budget.
The change would be that if
revenues are short, there's flexibility to
make adjustments for that. And it creates a
summary form in that it creates a surplus that
has to be part of your budget, and it mandates
sort of a three-year projection of what
changes we make and how it affects the
governor's budget. So that we do that
analysis.
And then it talks about the
143
Governor, after all of this takes place,
readjusting, sending us back a finalized
version of what it is that is the law.
That's it. Pretty well simple,
pretty direct. It works. I think we've had
support on both sides of the aisle. This is
the year to get it done. The Speaker has said
we're going to have an on-time budget. The
Governor says we should have an on-time
budget. We know we want an on-time budget.
This will be the year to put this in place,
because it's not controversial at this stage
of our lives.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Diaz.
SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam
President. Will the sponsor yield for a
question, please?
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno,
will you yield for a question from Senator
Diaz?
SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Madam
President.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
with a question, Senator Diaz.
144
SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Bruno, we
left here June 19th of last year.
SENATOR BRUNO: Yes.
SENATOR DIAZ: There were some
monies assigned or designated to some
community organizations. As of today, as of
today, those community organizations have not
received their money.
How your proposed plan will take
care of that? Is there any provision in your
plan to solve this problem that community
organizations doesn't have to suffer what they
have been through this year? Because it is a
shame that as of today, community
organizations and community groups that need
the money to function, they have not received
their money yet.
SENATOR BRUNO: Once we get by
April 1st, March 31st without a budget,
presently, everything sort of gets done by
emergency bill. What we're saying is that we
move that to May 1st, which gives us a greater
opportunity to get together.
But once it goes into place, well,
then those items that you're referring to
145
would go into the process.
SENATOR DIAZ: From the previous
year?
SENATOR BRUNO: From that year,
and hopefully be expedited through the system.
Because it goes through budget to the agencies
and then to your constituents.
And we would have a mechanism of
tracking that for all of us.
SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, I
think that as long as those communities --
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: On the
bill.
SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: You're on the
bill, Senator?
SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
on the bill.
SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President,
as long as those community organizations that
I represent in my district that as of today
they have not gotten their money, if this bill
provides some mechanism for them to not to go
through what they have been going through this
146
year, I think that that is a beautiful bill
and I will support it.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann.
SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you,
Madam President.
I want to compliment Senator Bruno
and my other colleagues on both sides of the
aisle with working so tenaciously to get this
very important package of bills on the floor.
And I know that in my district
there are few issues of greater importance to
the people who pay taxes in this state and the
people who rely on services from this state.
I have a few remarks that deal with
both bills, and I'll place them together
because it's difficult to separate them.
We're dealing, on the one hand,
with a constitutional amendment of very
practical but somewhat sweeping consequences
in changing the date for budget deadlines and
all of the commensurate submission deadlines
that go with that. And, on the other hand,
S2, which we'll be taking up in just a few
moments, deals with the implementation.
There are key aspects to this that
147
are going to be so beneficial to all of our
constituents that we really need to develop a
comfort level in explaining them and
demystifying this process.
When people are angry with us at
home, they don't understand day to day and
minute to minute what our committee processes
are, what the relations are between the two
houses of the Legislature or the Executive and
the Legislature, both branches. They simply
tar us all with the same brush.
And we often hear that people want
to throw all the bums out. And who can blame
them? Because in the end, if we don't do our
job correctly, it is government that has
failed them, and they're not able to
differentiate where the blame game is.
These bills together will eliminate
that situation. These two measures, when
implemented, will create a framework where we
will have the kind of communications between
the government that is in the executive branch
and the government in the legislative branch.
It will create the kind of cooperative spirit
that has been altogether too haphazard, at
148
least within the last 19 years.
For instance, the consensus
forecasting process to be completed by
March 1st will give us all a set of figures
that we can analyze. We will have the same
numbers. We will have the same information.
It will be a starting point where we will all
be able to talk as reasonable people about
what we expect to do, what we believe we need
to do.
By asking the Governor to give us a
four-year financial projection, we will all
then have the ability to make long-term
determinations that right now are all too much
guesswork for everybody.
By requiring the executive branch
to give information about journal voucher
transfers, there will no longer be any mystery
about where the money went.
There has been so much confusion
about one agency not having the funds that the
Legislature thought were appropriated to that
agency, not being able to implement activities
within an agency because in effect the
responsibility had been shifted to another
149
agency or the funds had been drained off for
another, maybe worthy project -- but the
Legislature that had empowered those agencies
to do that job was left wondering what was
happening.
These are far too complex matters
to burden each taxpayer with. They need the
satisfaction of knowing that we care enough to
identify what's wrong with this process and
that we're prepared to fix it.
Now, together, these may look like
very weighty measures. There are pages and
pages of hard work that have been refined over
a number of years. But I'm proud of the fact
that they are S1 and S2 in this house and that
we are starting off this year on the right
foot and we are sending a message to the
taxpayers of this state that we will not
tolerate the kind of late and irresponsible
budget activities that have all too often been
commonplace in this capital.
Thank you, Madam President.
And thank you again, Senator Bruno,
for your leadership.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
150
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President. On the bill.
We're now voting on Senate 2A,
Calendar 66, which passed unanimously last
year and many of us have been pleased to
support. We will then move on to Senate 1A,
that has generated a slightly more lively
debate.
But I certainly think that there's
very little argument with the provisions here.
I note that most of them, in one form or
another, with slight variations, have been
proposed at one time or another in both
houses, in the Assembly and the Senate.
And it would be nice, as we'll
discuss in the debate on S1, if we could
actually get something done by way of budget
reform this year. Certainly there's no
objection on my part to any of the revisions
in this bill.
I hope, though, that we can
recognize the need, as we move forward, to
actually do something different than we have
in past years as far as moving this process of
151
budget reform along this year.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Robach.
SENATOR ROBACH: I'm going to get
up and agree with Senator Joe Bruno and Eric
Schneiderman. I hope that's a harbinger of
things to come.
This bill, for me, I guess I take a
little bit of a different approach, having
come from the other house. I am very happy to
be here now, where this has been driven. I'm
talking about both these bills, S1 and S2.
And I don't think, historically, that the
houses have taken a similar view. But I am
encouraged to hear Senator Bruno tell me that
we are moving in that direction.
Everywhere I go, the public expects
us to be a little bit more pragmatic, a little
bit more logical. And I've never been able to
answer the question as to why we don't get a
budget done on time. And the answer is
because we have to have something, as my
grandmother would say, something where the
rubber hits the road, something that's real.
To comment on Senator Diaz's
152
question, there is no doubt in my mind that
for a long time -- in my days in the Assembly,
I was told: Go back and tell people that the
reason why the budget is late is so we can
work to get you more of what you want.
The reality really is we owe the
public just the opposite. We have to tell
them, whether they're a school district,
whether they're a healthcare provider, whether
they're a not-for-profit agency, whether
they're a municipality, what we're going to
give them, what our budget holds, and do that
in a timely fashion.
These two bills do that. They make
structural reform, they put teeth in it. And
I'm hopeful that, as other comments indicated,
this will pass unanimously here and hopefully
something similar or exactly these bills will
pass the other house to again really make the
change the public is asking for once and for
all.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. On the bill briefly.
153
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
Yes, I am in support of this bill,
as I was last year, Senator Bruno. And we had
a discussion about this bill last year, and I
urged you to consider some additional reforms.
And I still have a package of about eight
budget reform bills that I hope you will take
a look at.
And I read your package that you
released last week. And truthfully I hoped to
find things that I would feel strongly I
disagreed with you on. But again, perhaps not
a surprise, I'm such a strong believer in the
need to reform our budget process that I find
myself in agreement with most of the proposals
you were making.
And so while I will be voting for
your bill today, what I would urge is for us
to reevaluate how we go forward. Last year we
started out early passing this bill, and yet
we finished session not having accomplished
anything. And you in your own materials talk
about ten years of dedication to some level of
reform to our budget process. And yet it's
154
ten years later, and we haven't gotten there.
I would argue -- or not argue, I
would propose that the Democrats in the
Senate, the Republicans in the Senate, the
Democrats in the Assembly and the Republicans
in the Assembly all have budget reform
proposals. There's probably a package of
30 bills between the four caucuses.
That if we want to really move
beyond unanimously passing your bill here
today, what you should do in your leadership
position is immediately call for, I would
argue, a five-way meeting of Senate
Republicans, Senate Democrats, Assembly
Democrats, Assembly Republicans, and of course
the Governor, who's an important player in
this, sit down in a room, use the word
"conference" or not as you choose, figure out
where we agree and we disagree, and get
something moved that's a same-as bill early in
the session, not this bill today and something
else in the Assembly.
Because I frankly don't want to go
back and explain, as Nancy Larraine Hoffmann
pointed out, Senator Hoffmann, and Senator
155
Robach, how do we explain to our constituents
why we never come to closure, why we never
pass legislation that we all seem to agree on.
So I will hope that what I believe
will be almost unanimous support today for S2A
could translate into a call almost immediately
by you, and perhaps Senator David Paterson,
for both houses and Governor Pataki to sit
down with your package of bills and proposals,
ours and both caucuses in the Assembly, and
then let's get same-as bills through both
houses up here ASAP.
That's how we'll prove to our
constituents that it's not just another year
like the ten years before of people saying
they want budget reform and not moving it
forward.
So that is my recommendation as an
addition to what we do here today.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard?
Then the debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 19. This
156
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
Senator Onorato.
SENATOR ONORATO: Madam
President, may we have I have unanimous
consent to be recorded in the negative on
Calendar 16.
THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
objection, you will be so recorded as voting
in the negative.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can we ask for an immediate meeting of the
Local Government Committee in the Majority
Conference Room.
THE PRESIDENT: Immediate meeting
of the Local Government Committee in the
Majority Conference Room.
SENATOR BRUNO: And Senator
Montgomery to be recognized.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
157
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you,
Senator Bruno.
Madam President, I would like
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendars 16 and 42.
THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
objection, you will be so recorded as voting
in the negative.
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President,
can we at this time take up Calendar 65.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
65, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 1A,
Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and
Assembly proposing amendments to Article 7 of
the Constitution.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Madam
President, on the bill. As Senator Bruno has
explained S1A and S2A together, I don't think
we need a further explanation.
158
While I supported Senator Bruno and
enjoyed joining him basking in all of the warm
sentiment that we just received in the debate
on Senate 2A, I voted against the predecessor
to this bill, and I'll be voting against this
bill again. And I think the arguments that
have been made really fall into two
categories.
First of all, what is in this bill
that is not in Senate 2A -- that is really
something that I don't see how we as a house
of the Legislature can support -- is a
provision that transfers massive power from
the Legislature to the Governor.
This provides that if the
Legislature -- if we fail to agree to an
on-time budget, which the Governor presumably
can hold up through his own intransigence, the
previous year's fiscal budget goes into place
and the Governor is empowered, free of any
constraints by the Legislature, to reduce
spending.
So with reference to the community
programs that Reverend Diaz was talking about,
the community programs might go through if
159
they were in last year's budget, or the
Governor might decide to cut them, and we
don't have any control over that.
That's a fundamental flaw, in my
view, in this legislation. It was a flaw
before, it's a flaw now. I don't think it's
going to pass the Assembly, so I don't think
we're going to have to deal with it.
But I would urge that this is the
kind of thing that requires us to not just to
dig our heels in and continue to push the same
piece of legislation, but to actually look at
the underlying structural balance of the
government, the need to keep the Legislature
and the Governor involved in the budget
process.
The second problem I have here
really has more to do with the process. And
it's nice that we're here saying, you know, we
passed these bills, Senate 1 and Senate 2 --
although, as Senator Bruno has acknowledged,
we've been doing that for ten years. It
doesn't seem that the number of the bills is
having a big impact on this.
And I think that the truth of the
160
matter is that we now have degenerated into a
pattern with the Assembly where they're
passing one-house budget reform bills, we're
passing one-house budget reform bills, and
there appears to be very little effort to get
outside of this stalemate.
This bill is not here as a result
of extensive inquiry and hearings by the
Finance Committee, an effort to evaluate all
of the fine academic literature on the budget
process that's out there. This bill was
amended Friday, it's just been rushed through
Finance and Rules, there haven't been hearings
of the Finance Committee.
And since last year, when we passed
a virtually identical bill, there's been a lot
of discussion of the problems with New York
State's budget process. I note in particular
the November 13th paper by the Citizens Budget
Commission by Professor Gerald Benjamin:
"Reform in New York: The Budget, the
Legislature, and the Governance Process,"
which provides detailed analysis and
recommendations, none of which is addressed in
this bill, which just reiterates what we did
161
last year.
I note that in the last few weeks,
there have been editorials across the state.
We find that the New York Times is in
agreement with the Elmira Star Gazette in
calling for reform of the budget process.
And unfortunately, as pointed out
in some of these editorials, we're approaching
an extremely unfortunate and dubious
anniversary. If we don't pass the budget on
time this year, it will be twenty years of
late budgets. Twenty years of late budgets.
The process clearly is broken. But
I would suggest that the effort to throw bills
out on the table without really further
evaluating them doesn't necessarily move the
process forward.
Somehow we have to get together
with the Assembly to come up with something
that can actually pass both houses. And until
we're meeting with them, until we're really
moving something different than the same bills
they passed last year and the same bills we
passed last year, I don't think we can fairly
say to the public we are really doing
162
everything we can do to reform the broken
budget process.
So I will once again be voting no
on this bill. I do think that there are
things we can do to get the budget passed on
time. Most drastically, I commend to you all
Senator Paterson's bill requiring that we
remain in session every day until the budget
is passed if we miss the deadline. I assure
you that that would probably have a dramatic
effect.
Short of such drastic action,
there's a lot we can do. We're not doing it
with this bill. And I vote no and suggest
that everyone vote no.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard?
Senator Sabini.
SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Madam
President. On the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
on the bill.
SENATOR SABINI: I commend the
sponsor for his judgment and leadership last
163
year in the budget crisis that we weathered
through, and admire, really, the tack that
this body took under his leadership.
And I, for one, said repeatedly
last year that there really is no pride in us
passing budgets late. I agree with the
principle of that.
As Senator Robach points out, you
know, there's lots of rationales to pass the
budget late, but the public, the people we
represent, buy none of them. The only people
who haven't figured out that it's a shell game
are the members of the Legislature and the
interest groups who feed at the troughs that
we fill for them every year.
And so I too would like to see
budget reform. But the best budget reform, I
think, is political will. The women and men
of the Legislature can pass an on-time budget
if we want to. We really don't need a
contraption to do it. We have it now; it's
called a deadline. And we can meet it if we
choose to meet it. But we choose not to
because it's convenient, it serves our
interests, it serves the interests of the
164
people who lobby us.
And while I think we do need some
reform, I think that the default process in
this bill allows whatever house of the
Legislature is of the same party as the
Governor to in effect play stallball against
the other, to play four corners, to keep the
process stymied until such time as the
Governor gets what he wants. And I suspect
that this bill would not be proposed, if the
Governor was of another party, by the
Majority.
So I share the desire to change the
process. I will continue to speak out against
late budgets. But I don't think that
ultimately this bill is the answer.
I hope that as a collective group,
as Senator Liz Krueger said, using the wisdom
of the members of the Legislature in both
houses in both parties, we can come up with a
package that can pass and mean something to
the people of the State of New York.
But until such time as we do that,
I fear that this bill really gives one house
and the Governor way too much say over what
165
ultimately will be the budget and encourages,
in effect, legislative inaction rather than
legislative action on fiscal matters of this
state.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard?
Senator Diaz.
SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam
President. On the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
on the bill.
SENATOR DIAZ: I am relatively
new, a new legislator. I served one year in
the City Council of the City of New York, and
this is my second year here.
But I have learned to be afraid of
three words in this process. And those three
words, I heard the Governor use them again and
again this morning in his budget explanation.
The three words are "reform" -- I have learned
that when we hear "reform," meaning minority
cuts, minority groups get hurt.
The other word is "restructuring
government." I'm afraid of that word too. I
166
have learned that every time that something
like that happens.
And the other word is "cost
savings."
Reform, restructuring, and cost
savings, those three words panic me, because
they always hurt my community.
And listening to the Governor this
morning talking about reform, restructuring,
cost savings, I'm afraid to give him more
power than what he has. So I cannot support
this one.
Thank you very much.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard?
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Can I, just by
way of explanation -- because I appreciate
your support for Senate 2A on both sides of
the aisle.
If the Governor, because of a
shortfall, if this were in place, wants to cut
or has to cut something, he would have to do
it across the board, for discretionary funds
only. Which means that if there were items
167
both sides of the aisle, if he had to cut, it
might be a 3 percent cut, both sides of the
aisle, the Assembly as well, uniformly. The
Governor cannot pick and choose.
If he likes Senator Diaz, he
supports him, if he doesn't think too kindly
of another one, he doesn't -- it doesn't work
that way. And he can only touch discretionary
funds, not the mandated programs.
So I just clarify that, Madam
President, and again appreciate the support
and would recommend we move the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will call the roll on the resolution.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
DeFrancisco, to explain your vote.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'm
going to vote yes. I just wanted to make a
couple of points.
There's been some criticism about
the language of this particular bill. And in
order to have conference committees, you've
got to have bills in order for you to be in a
position to negotiate those bills.
168
And it's easy to blame either the
Governor or the Assembly or anyone else. But
when we pass this set of bills every year the
first time, the first bill that we do, and the
Assembly I think for the first or maybe second
time passes actual bills when we're closing
session, well after the budget is over, it's
pretty tough to negotiate.
So no matter whose fault it is, the
fact is it's got to be resolved. Enough is
enough. The Senate has shown their goodwill.
A couple of years ago, remember, we called
budget hearings. We were asking the Assembly
to show up. Well, we should all get together,
Democrat or Republican, to get this thing off
the dime, get committees going and have this
thing resolved once and for all.
Although the public is frustrated,
I don't think anyone could experience the
frustration of all of us who have to go
through this process each year.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
DeFrancisco, you will be so recorded as voting
in the affirmative.
Senator Oppenheimer, to explain
169
your vote?
SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I
would like to be recorded as a no vote.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 65 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Diaz,
Dilán, Duane, Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L.
Krueger, Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,
Parker, Paterson, Schneiderman, A. Smith,
Stachowski, Stavisky. Also Senator Lachman.
Also Senator Sabini.
Ayes, 39. Nays, 20.
THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
adopted.
Senator Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Madam
President. May I have unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
16.
THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
objection, you will be so recorded as voting
in the negative, Senator.
Senator Skelos.
170
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could return to reports of standing
committees, I believe there's several reports
at the desk. And I ask that they be read at
this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Reports of
standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley,
from the Committee on Banks, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 2242, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the Banking Law;
2262, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
2264, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
3425, by Senator Farley, an act to
amend the Banking Law;
And Senate Print 4575, by Senator
Farley, an act to amend the Banking Law.
Senator Little, from the Committee
on Local Government, reports:
Senate Print 136, by Senator
Maltese, an act to amend the Municipal Home
171
Rule Law;
2960, by Senator Alesi, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
3556, by Senator Bruno, an act
authorizing;
4925, by Senator Little, an act to
amend the Local Finance Law;
And Senate Print 5884, by Senator
Trunzo, an act to amend the General Municipal
Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, all bills ordered direct to third
reading.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
THE PRESIDENT: No, there isn't,
Senator Skelos.
Senator Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Madam
President. I request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
65.
172
THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
objection, you will be so recorded as voting
in the negative.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
there being no further business, I move we
adjourn until Wednesday, January 21st,
11:00 a.m.
THE PRESIDENT: On motion, the
Senate stands adjourned until Wednesday,
January 21st, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 3:58 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)