Regular Session - January 26, 2004
208
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
January 26, 2004
3:05 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: I ask
us all to bow our heads in a moment of
silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Saturday, January 24, the Senate met pursuant
to adjournment. The Journal of Friday,
January 23, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
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Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward,
from the Committee on Insurance, reports:
Senate Print 525, by Senator
Balboni, an act to amend the Insurance Law;
1172, by Senator Seward, an act to
amend the Insurance Law;
And Senate Print 1173, by Senator
Seward, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
Senator Volker, from the Committee
on Codes, reports:
Senate Print 67, by Senator
Maltese, an act to amend the Civil Practice
Law and Rules;
99, by Senator Velella, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
236, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
237, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
240, by Senator Volker, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
277, by Senator Skelos, an act to
211
amend the Penal Law;
432, by Senator Nozzolio, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
518, by Senator Balboni, an act to
amend the Civil Rights Law;
552, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
554, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
624, by Senator Padavan, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
1021, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
1206, by Senator Robach, an act to
amend the Penal Law;
5554, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Criminal Procedure Law;
And Senate Print 5912, by Senator
Volker, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law
and Rules.
Senator Spano, from the Committee
on Investigations and Government Operations,
reports:
Senate Print 2027A, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Public Buildings
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Law;
3343C, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Public Officers Law;
4475, by Senator Leibell, an act to
amend the Public Officers Law;
5727, by Senator Libous, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
And Senate Print 5958, by Senator
Skelos, an act to amend the Public Officers
Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: All
bills reported directly to third reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr.
President.
On behalf of Senator Marcellino, on
page 11 I offer the following amendments to
Calendar 100, Senate Print 783A, and I ask
that that bill retain its place on the Third
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Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President,
on behalf of Senator Rath, I move that the
following bill be discharged from its
respective committee and be recommitted with
instructions to strike the enacting clause.
That's Senate Print 2055.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: So
ordered.
SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of
Senator Marcellino, Mr. President, I move that
the following bill be discharged from its
respective committee and be recommitted with
instructions to strike the enacting clause.
That's Senate Print 2935.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: So
ordered.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Senator
Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
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Mr. President.
On behalf of Senator Golden, on
page number 7 I offer the following amendments
to Calendar Number 52, Senate Print Number
4446, and ask that said bill retain its place
on Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, on behalf of Senator Volker, on
page number 10 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 86, Senate Print
Number 3127, and ask that said bill retain its
place on Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, on behalf of Senator Saland, on
page number 11 I offer the following
amendments to Calendar Number 93, Senate Print
Number 216, and ask that said bill retain its
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place on Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5883A, an
act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the
imposition of sales and compensating use
taxes.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
bill is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 345A, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
reporting.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
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aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
bill is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
58, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4887, an
act to amend the Waterfront Commission Act, in
relation to empowering.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
60, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 879,
an act to amend the Environmental Conservation
Law, in relation to management of wildlife
resources.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
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act shall take effect on the first of January.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
72, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 136, an
act to amend the Municipal Home Rule Law, in
relation to punishment for the violation of a
local law.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
74, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3556, an
act authorizing the South Glens Falls Central
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School District.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
76, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5884, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to allowing active volunteer
firefighters.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Call
the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
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bill is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go to the controversial reading of
the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5883A, an
act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the
imposition of sales and compensating use
taxes.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Read
the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT GOLDEN: Senator
Brown.
SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Mr.
President. I just wanted to speak to this
bill.
I want to commend Senator Volker
and Assembly Majority Leader Tokasz for
putting this piece of legislation forward,
which I see as a step in the right direction
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on the Erie County sales tax.
We've discussed this item before,
and in Erie County we have an additional
1 percent of sales tax which was implemented
in 1985 as a temporary tax. This tax has now
been temporary for the 19th year in a row.
But I do see this as a step in the
right direction, with the assistance of
Senator Volker and Assembly Member Tokasz.
And why it's a step in the right direction,
because it allow allows for some potential
sharing of that additional 1 percent of sales
tax in 2005 and 2006, in the amount of
$10.4 million, and in 2006 and 2007 in the
amount of, potentially, $21.1 million.
I want to say that this recommended
sharing comes from the Emergency Control Board
that was imposed on the City of Buffalo by
this Legislature and Governor because of
Buffalo's fiscal crisis. And every member of
that control board -- including the county
executive, the Erie County executive and the
mayor of the City of Buffalo -- voted
unanimously that this potential sharing be
included in this piece of legislation.
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In addition, in the home rule
message that we received from the Erie County
legislature, this was passed unanimously by a
vote of 15 to 0 by the Erie County
legislature.
And I just want to say while I do
think this is a step in the right direction, I
would like to see some kind of permanent
sharing of that additional 1 percent of sales
tax.
I think for the county to have
collected this money for 19 years, which
generally amounts to $115 million per
1 percent every year, is just an injustice to
the City of Buffalo and the financial
difficulties that the city is experiencing.
Now, I think we all know that the
City of Buffalo is in need of help. And I
think that this Legislature and certainly this
house of the Legislature has shown a
willingness to help the City of Buffalo. And
the resources to help Buffalo are going to
have to come from somewhere, either from the
State of New York or from the County of Erie.
And I believe that the county does have the
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ability, through this sales tax, to assist the
City of Buffalo.
Now, just a fact that I want to
share with my colleagues is that Syracuse
receives 37.74 percent of the County of
Onondaga sales tax. That's 19 percent more
than the City of Buffalo receives. Rochester
receives 34.12 percent of the Monroe County
sales tax, which is 15 percent more than the
County of Erie receives.
Colleagues, now is the time for us
to consider making a sharing permanent. I
know that that sharing permanency can't be
done this year, but certainly I'm hoping that
it can be done next year.
Now, I feel so passionately about
this issue that last year I was the only
member of this house and the only member of
this Legislature to vote against this
extension of the additional 1 percent of sales
tax for the County of Erie.
But this is a critical, critical
issue for the county and for the City of
Buffalo. I'm asking you to consider this. I
want to commend Senator Volker and Assembly
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Member Tokasz for moving this in the right
direction.
I am only hopeful that next year
and the year after, that the county executive
in Erie County and that the Erie County
legislature honor the votes that they have
taken to do this sharing and we actually see
some sharing in those two years.
With that being said, I am going to
vote in the affirmative this year on this,
because I do think it's a step in the right
direction. And I think it is a step in the
right direction because of Senator Volker's
advocacy on behalf of the entire county, but
certainly on behalf of the City of Buffalo.
Senator, I want to thank you for
that.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker.
SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President,
I think everybody realizes that this bill,
with its legislative findings -- and the way
legislative findings work, and I know that
most of my colleagues understand it, that this
bill, the operative part of this bill relates
to the ability to continue the sales tax.
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Which again, the money will continue during
this fiscal year which we're already in.
The problem with the attitude --
the city was talking to us about sharing this
year. Now, the county's fiscal year is
January 1st to December 31st. The city's
fiscal year is July 1st to June 30th of the
following year. The problem with trying to do
a share this year is that you would, in
effect, be taking a piece out of the county
budget that's already in the county budget,
and you would cause a deficit to the County of
Erie, which would in effect probably result in
a downgrading of the county's bond rating and
a lot of other things.
What this bill does is, and with
the agreement of the Emergency Control Board,
who essentially passed a resolution, as
Senator Brown suggested, suggesting that we do
this starting December -- or, I'm sorry,
January 1st of 2005, and the county
legislature approved by home rule message this
bill.
Now, you say, Well, if nothing
changes, isn't the County of Erie then going
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to be short the money? That's true, and
that's why this has no specific authority in
law.
However, let me point out to
everyone that we are extremely hopeful -- more
than hopeful. This Legislature, and I'm sure
this house is going to, is going to do
legislation changing and improving Medicaid.
And by that I mean we're going to
provide some money. And we're going to have
to. And I assume we're going to do some
reforms also before this year is out. The
Governor has a proposal, we have a proposal,
and I think the Assembly is going to have a
proposal.
The beneficiaries in upstate
New York are counties. In the City of
New York, obviously the City of New York would
be one of the beneficiaries of those changes.
In our upstate, it's the county, and that's
the County of Erie.
The Governor's proposal alone, if
we passed it, as I understand, pretty well the
way it is -- and I'm not saying we should, I'm
just saying that monetarywise, it would give
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the county more than the 15 million that would
be provided by the terms of these legislative
findings.
So what we're assuming here is that
the county is going to get assistance. And
then if the county gets in fact enough
assistance, they would, I would think, be all
prepared to allow this money anyway.
Because the city either needs money
from the county or from the state, because
although they are working on a plan right now
to downsize government and to stabilize the
government in Buffalo, they clearly need some
outside help in order to do that.
So what's what this is about. It
took a great deal of back and forth, shall we
say. And I think that we have come to an
agreement here that not everyone is happy
with, and that's why it's probably a pretty
good agreement. And it's good that we do not
have a situation where we have a stalemate, as
several times we've had in the past.
So what will happen here is then
the 1 percent will continue and the County of
Erie, their budget will be in balance. And
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the City of Buffalo hopefully will be on their
way to doing the same thing.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard?
Then the debate is closed.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 345A, an
act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
reporting requirements.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you,
Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: You're welcome.
SENATOR LaVALLE: This is a piece
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of legislation that we have discussed before
on this floor.
And before I talk about some of the
specific provisions, let me just indicate that
just recently in a discussion I had with Abe
Lachman, who is president of the Commission of
Independent Colleges and Universities, he
indicated that New York is the number-one
state in the country in terms of importing of
students, educating students from out of
state.
When we look at the number of
students who are foreign students, that
number, my counsel tells me, is 50,000
students that we are educating in our colleges
and universities from other countries. And
this is something that we have always done.
It provides, as everyone knows, a good
environment, an enriching educational system
for not only the students who come from other
countries but our own students.
One of the conditions of a student
coming here is they are accepted because our
country issues a limited student visa. And so
this bill goes to the point of what happens
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when a student does something that is
inconsistent with their promise to, one, come
to this country and be educated and, number
two, if they do come and don't attend class,
well, then, we need to know.
So the bill does two things. It
says, well, we have a student who said they
were coming but never came, and, number two,
we have a student who came, started to attend
class, but has disappeared.
We ask the university or college to
do two things, one under federal law, where
they must provide Homeland Security with some
information. But now we ask them to do one
other thing. We ask them contemporaneously to
contact the State Police. We want that kind
of articulation. We want our State Police to
know that there's a student who should be --
should have been attending, never showed up,
or a student who has showed up but has now
disappeared.
And the whole purpose, as everyone
knows today, is to get all of the levels of
government to interact with one another,
exchanging information so that we know, like a
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glove in a hand, that everything is nicely
fitted and we have the proper information.
We also ask the university to
provide us with some data on the number of
students and from what countries are attending
that particular university. We don't ask for
names, we are just asking for raw data.
If the university doesn't comply,
we do have some penalties. We say, number
one, that university could -- could -- lose
its status of receiving students from other
countries or, secondly, they could be
penalized per omission, of $1,000 per
omission.
So we think this is a good bill.
We think, given where we were with 9/11 and
the world that we live in, that we are not
placing unreasonable burdens on our
universities, but we are ensuring that the
students at the university are safe and our
citizenry in general are safe from students
who are coming into this country for a purpose
other than receiving a quality and good
education from one of our great colleges or
universities.
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THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley.
SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
President.
I rise in support of Senator
LaValle's bill. And I know there's
historically a lot of objection, particularly
from the other side. As somebody that has
taught at a university for a long time, many
years, I don't think this is a great
intrusion. It's no intrusion on any of our
students.
But with the state of the world
today, and it's been mentioned so many times
in the area of homeland security that this is
a conduit or an area where students do
participate in terrorism against our nation, I
think this is reasonable. This is more or
less asking them to comply with a grave
concern that we have today.
Conditions are not the same the
same as they were a few years ago. Today
we've got a very scary situation. I think
that Senator LaValle has got a reasonable
bill. I think it dovetails very, very well
with the Homeland Security, it makes our State
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Police a player. And I think it's significant
and it's time has come.
And it's not that unreasonable.
It's not going to be a burden on the
university. And I don't think it will be a
burden on our foreign students, many of which
I've had in class.
But the point of it is, it is
something that we need. It's reasonable. We
need this protection. These are very troubled
times. And I think this is a reasonable bill.
And, Senator LaValle, I commend you for
bringing it forward, and I ask those of you
that have had concerns about this to relook at
this, because times are a-changin', and this
is something that we need.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam
President, if the sponsor would yield for a
couple of questions.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle
yields.
You may proceed, Senator Stavisky.
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SENATOR STAVISKY: Since this
information is available to the Office of
Homeland Security, wouldn't it be a lot easier
for the Office of Homeland Security to get the
email address of the State Police, or their
fax number, and get it to them that way?
Rather than --
SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator, as you
may know -- and it's been discussed and
reported that the federal government really
relies on the first line of defense, what
happens with the police in our local
communities and the state police within the
states.
And so it is our people, really,
many times having this information, finding
someone and reporting to the federal
government that we have someone floating
around that should not be.
So I think it's just the reverse.
It's the local people that are really doing
the job of seeking out people in places that
they shouldn't be.
SENATOR STAVISKY: If the Senator
would continue to yield.
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THE PRESIDENT: Senator, do
you --
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: He does yield.
You may proceed, Senator Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Under the
terms of your bill, the State Education
Department is going to collect the
information.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, that is
correct.
SENATOR STAVISKY: As I read the
bill, one of the places where they're required
to send it is to the chair of the Senate
Higher Education Committee.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Uh-huh.
SENATOR STAVISKY: I'm curious
what --
SENATOR LaVALLE: He would, as
soon as he gets that information, immediately
give it to the ranking member.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, give it
to the ranking minority member. I knew you
were going to say that.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Absolutely.
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SENATOR STAVISKY: My question,
though, had a more serious tone. When I said
it, I realized what you were going to say.
I would like to know what the chair
of the Higher Education Committee needs to
know about the students with the visas who
haven't shown up for class.
SENATOR LaVALLE: I think what
we're asking for is, it says here, "The
department shall provide to the Legislature a
report compiling such information." And we
talk about the information on categories of
how many students at a particular university
and from what countries.
That information, Senator, was
either not forthcoming or wasn't collected in
work that we in the Legislature want to do.
And as you know, it says both the
Senate and Assembly chairs would receive that
information.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
Really one or two more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator, will you
yield for two questions?
SENATOR LaVALLE: I'd be happy
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to, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
with one or two questions, Senator.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator
LaValle, you're asking the State Education
Department to collect this data from the
colleges and universities. And in fact if the
colleges and universities don't collect the
data, they are subject to a fine of $1,000 for
a first -- per violation.
SENATOR FLANAGAN: Per violation.
SENATOR STAVISKY: And then a
$2,000 fine for second violations.
My question is in the area of
putting an unnecessary burden upon the State
Education Department. You're causing them
additional expense to go out to collect this
data. And does not this represent an unfunded
mandate?
SENATOR LaVALLE: You know,
Senator --
SENATOR STAVISKY: You knew I was
going to ask that question.
SENATOR LaVALLE: Well, it dawned
on me after -- this is the second year we're
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debating this bill, and I realized where some
of the opposition might come from.
And my eyes happened to come to
this, yes, mandate, on the department. And we
ask the department to do lots of things.
This, I think, is important. I'm not sure
it's burdensome on them. I'm not sure that
we've even -- certainly, as sponsor, the
department has not come and indicated that
this was a burden on them. Maybe they're
timid to come to the chairman, you know.
But I think it's important that one
of the roles that the department does and
should be playing is collecting information.
We ask them to collect information on our
elementary and secondary schools, on state aid
information, the nature of how many teachers
and the gender and the race and so forth.
Why? Because it goes into better
policymaking, the more information that we
have. I believe that very sincerely.
I'm sure that this is a mandate
that they would rather not have. But I think
it's an important one in for us in the
Legislature.
238
SENATOR STAVISKY: My last
question.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator --
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: He yields.
Go ahead, Senator.
SENATOR STAVISKY: How does this
legislation impact or how is it affected by
SEVIS, the Student Exchange Visitor
Information System?
SENATOR LaVALLE: I'm told that
the same information can be used to go to the
State Police, that it's not duplicative.
In my remarks I had indicated that
the colleges would be forwarding the
information contemporaneously, in my opening
remarks.
SENATOR STAVISKY: But the bill
doesn't do that. It doesn't give the
information to SEVIS.
On the bill, Madam President. Very
briefly on the bill.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed,
Senator.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.
239
I think this legislation is a
duplication of existing law. We're placing an
unfair burden on the State Education
Department and, in fact, on the commissioner.
Because as I read the last page of the bill,
he serves not only as the enforcement officer
but also the judge and jury on violations.
So we do have an unfunded mandate.
And as I know, my colleagues do not like to
vote for mandates without providing the
necessary funding stream.
Secondly, I'm concerned with what
the State Police is going to do with this
information once they receive it.
And lastly, it seems to me that
this information is already available. And
much as we all want to thwart potential
terrorists, I just don't think this is the way
to do it.
Thank you. And I thank Senator
LaValle for his detailed responses.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. What I
have to say is said with all due respect to
Senator LaValle. I cannot support this bill.
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But before I go into the substance
of the bill, I would like to correct a
statement that was made that was not -- that
is not germane to the bill. And the initial
statement that was made was that New York
State has more out-of-state students than any
other state in the nation.
I think that's a very good thing
for New York State. First of all, we have,
besides our private colleges and
universities -- which now have an excellent
spokesman -- we have, out of the three public
universities in the nation, the first, SUNY,
with the largest population of any state
university, and CUNY, which has the third
largest population of any publicly funded
university.
And in terms of the area of
students from out of state coming to New York,
there are many, many students coming to
New York for our teaching hospitals.
Fifteen percent of all of the teaching
hospitals in the United States are in New York
State -- primarily in New York City, but other
parts of the state as well.
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And this is a great means of
developing the economy of the state and the
city, as well as educating physicians and
others who will aid society. So I just want
to separate the issue of students who come
from out of state from students who come from
out of the United States.
Now, on the second issue, I would
also echo some of the words that my
predecessor has mentioned. It is duplicative.
I do not believe that the Board of Regents or
the State Commissioner of Education want this
to occur.
And I think that having 50,000
students in our universities who come from out
of the country is a positive rather than a
negative. Because these students interact
with the students who were born in the city
and the state, and they create even a better
academic environment.
Whether they come from Asia or
Russia or Africa, it in a sense brings to the
universities of the state of New York and the
colleges of the state of New York a different
perspective and, at the same time, a great
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deal of academic training and scholarship
which will benefit our society in the future.
Finally, I'm very concerned that
one of my colleagues -- and even if I hadn't
heard the word "some," I would still be
concerned -- said that foreign students
participate in terrorism. Not you, Senator
LaValle. If someone else had said some
foreign students participate in terrorism, I
would respond by saying some American-born
students participate in terrorism.
We cannot have here two different
categories of students. We cannot say that
foreign students are more prone to participate
in terrorism than American students are. And
by and large, this, I'm told again and again,
comes out of speeches of the president of the
United States, George W. Bush, who has
defended foreigners in the United States going
to universities and has said continually that
the vast majority, as the vast majority of
Americans, do not participate in terrorism.
And I think we have to be very,
very careful when we discuss something like
this and use words of "terrorism" to reflect
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upon foreign nationals, especially students
who come to this country and reinvigorate the
country and learn and give so much to this
nation.
Especially since this bill is
duplicative, especially since it is not asked
for or required by the Commissioner of
Education or by the State Board of Regents, I
cannot support it.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
member wish to be heard on this bill?
Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. Briefly on the bill.
I appreciate my predecessor's
comments about this bill.
And I won't phrase it as a
question, because I think Senator LaValle
intended to answer correctly. But when
Senator Stavisky asked wouldn't it be simpler,
simply, for the INS or Homeland Security to
provide the information to the State Police,
Senator LaValle answered: "But we want the
State Police to be first line of response,"
and that the federal government is asking us
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to do that.
And I don't disagree with your
analysis, but what I do disagree with is that
this bill would actually require every college
in this state to have two systems. Right now
they have to respond to the federal SEVIS
system, which is not a system they control or
create, but rather the federal government
sends them the information on each individual
student and they must put information in in
response.
Under this bill, the state is
asking each institution to create their own,
second computer system. Because they don't
own SEVIS; it's the federal that they're
responding to. It would require each
institution to create a separate, independent
second system for tracking the same
information, put that information and then
somehow get it to the State Police.
So I would argue that this bill is
duplicative of what the federal government has
already mandated and put in place, and that if
the State Police need this information, and
even if one accepts that there's a very good
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reason why you want State Police to have the
same information as Homeland Security, that it
is a far more cost-effective and simpler and
more elegant way to get to your point by
simply having Homeland Security share the
information they already have through an
existing system with whoever in the New York
State Police or New York State Criminal
Justice should be appropriately looking at
this information.
I'm not sure I would support the
argument that individual legislators, whether
they be chairs of committees or not, ought to
be having this particular -- this information.
So I will say that this is not just
an unfunded mandate, it is an enormous new set
of burdens on each individual college and
university in the state. I don't think it
does, in this day and age, with the federal
program in place, anything to improve security
or protection.
And to just follow up on the
statement of Senator Lachman that Education
hasn't asked for this, the Regents haven't
asked for this -- I don't believe the State
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Police have asked for this either.
So again, I would argue that at
this point in time our proposing a new
unfunded mandate on our universities that
would require an enormous new database and
administrative system, the possibility for
mistakes in two systems collecting the same
information would not, in fact, improve our
security at all.
But rather, a way to get to the
same point is to simply arrange for, if it is
in the best interests of the State Police and
Homeland Security, for those two agencies to
agree to share existing information.
So I'll vote against this bill,
because I don't think the State of New York
needs this to accomplish the goals at this
point in time.
Thank you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President. If the sponsor would yield
for a question.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator, will you
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yield for a question?
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
Senator LaValle.
You may proceed with a question,
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Have the State Police issued a memo
in support of this proposal or otherwise
publicly indicated support for this?
SENATOR LaVALLE: No. Nor do I
have any memos in opposition on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
through you, Madam President, there was some
earlier discussion of the State Department of
Education. Have any administrators or
representatives of the colleges or
universities of this state indicated that they
would like to see this bill passed and the
system installed?
SENATOR LaVALLE: I think you
probably know the answer to that. But no.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
through you, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator, will you
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yield for another question?
SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Do the
State Police have an electronic system in
place, as the federal agencies do through
SEVIS, to receive this information if it were
to be reported?
SENATOR LaVALLE: I don't believe
they have an exact system.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Okay.
Thank you. I'd like to thank the sponsor for
his answers.
On the bill, Madam President.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
on the bill, Senator.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think
what we have here is an effort to fit a square
peg into a round hole. We have a federal
system that has been developed at great
expense in an effort to prevent there from
being a duplication of efforts and to make
sure that we have one seamless system in which
all information can be shared.
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And this is an effort to insert the
New York State Police -- for whom I have the
highest regard -- into this process when they
don't want to be there, they are not equipped
to handle the situation, they do not have the
electronic system to receive the data, as the
federal agencies do. It imposes a burden on
our colleges and universities that they
clearly don't want.
And I would suggest -- if I may,
reading from a document that was produced by
the U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement
Service -- that this bill runs completely
contrary to everything we're trying to
accomplish in the federal Department of
Homeland Security.
And this is on the website of the
U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement
Agency. "For 50 years, U.S. educational
institutions been required to maintain such
information about foreign students studying at
their facilities. In the past, this was a
decentralized, inefficient and paper-driven
system. SEVIS, for the first time, automates
and centralizes this data."
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That is the goal of the federal
government. We're spending billions of
dollars on homeland security, we're trying to
make sure that people don't slip through the
cracks as they did, tragically, before
September 11th. And I'm afraid that what
we're trying to do here, maybe by showing that
the state government, we're getting in on the
effort to defend the public also, is really
creating problems that the federal government
is spending a lot of time and energy trying to
correct.
We do not need to tell the federal
government how to go about the business of
collectivizing the information and ensuring
that there's accurate information disseminated
as fast as possible to all appropriate
agencies. We certainly don't need to impose
on colleges and universities the requirement
to create a duplicative, paper-driven system
that would overlap with the federal system.
I think the answer to this problem
clearly is to have the federal government
collect the information and then to provide it
to any local law enforcement agency they think
251
needs the information.
And I would suggest that the best
route for this might be to have communication
with the Department of Homeland Security.
Certainly Senator Balboni seems to have all
sorts of connections in this area. Maybe we
could make an inquiry about sharing this
information with local agencies in New York
State.
And I would urge that that should
include more than the State Police. Obviously
in New York City the New York City Police
Department is our lead agency.
But this bill imposes burdens on
colleges who don't want it, imposes burdens on
the State Police, who don't want it, imposes a
paper-driven system on everyone while the
federal government is spending billions of
dollars to get away from this sort of
duplicate, paper-driven system. I just think
it's an effort to make something happen that
the agencies involved will never make happen
effectively and efficiently.
And people's lives certainly are
affected seriously by such systems. There are
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examples that have been cited, since the
federal system has been implemented, of
students being held in interrogation systems
for processing as though they were illegal
aliens, when returning to the country, just
because of problems with the records.
A student at Washington University
in St. Louis was actually held in prison
because the school couldn't access the file
properly.
This is serious stuff. And we
shouldn't be trying to impose systems that
really aren't tested and would create problems
without a great deal of thought and care.
So I urge everyone to vote no on
the bill. Our colleges and universities are
suffering enough. We will be hearing in the
budget process that they need more money. And
according to the estimates of the compliance
with the federal system, some colleges and
universities have reported already it's
costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars
each year to comply with the requirement to
collect the data and process it for the feds.
We don't need to impose more
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burdens. Let's try and make the federal
system work and communicate with the federal
government to get the information we need. I
urge everyone to vote no.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of August.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 17 are
Senators Breslin, Brown, Diaz, Dilan,
Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
Lachman, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato,
Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, Sabini,
Sampson, Schneiderman, A. Smith, and Stavisky.
Also Senator Andrews. Also Senator M. Smith.
Ayes, 39. Nays, 21.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
controversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
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is there any housekeeping at the desk?
THE PRESIDENT: No, there isn't,
Senator.
SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
If there's no further business to
come before the Senate, I move we adjourn
until January 27th at 11:00 a.m.
THE PRESIDENT: On motion, the
Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday,
January 27th, 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)