Regular Session - February 23, 2004
521
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
February 23, 2004
3:38 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR CARL L. MARCELLINO, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senate will come to order.
I ask that everyone present please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
invocation today will be given by Rabbi Nate
Segal, The New Springfield Jewish Center, on
Staten Island.
RABBI SEGAL: Our Father in
heaven, we invoke Your blessings upon this
august body. May it be guided by Your
commandments and teachings.
We are told in the Book of Genesis
that God destroyed the world with a flood.
After the flood, Noah sent out a dove to see
how much the waters receded. The dove returns
with a leaf in its mouth.
The rabbis ask: "If the world was
destroyed, where was the tree that the leaf
came from?" Our rabbi's answer, that the leaf
was from a tree that was growing in the Garden
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of Eden, Paradise. And the message that the
Almighty was giving to Noah was that the world
that was just destroyed was corrupt. The
world that Noah was about to rebuild can be a
paradise.
The New York State Senate, under
the dynamic leadership of our Lieutenant
Governor, our Majority Leader, and my dear
friend and Senator, the Honorable John Marchi:
Never stop dreaming about this ultimate goal.
It inspires you, our esteemed legislators, to
work tirelessly towards its realization,
bringing us a little piece of paradise in a
place we call New York State.
In the midst of the Civil War, a
soldier came in to President Lincoln and he
said, "Mr. President, is God on our side?"
The President said, "The question is, are we
on God's side?"
May God bless this body with the
courage and strength you need to be successful
in this monumental task. May the spirit of
God prevail on this house forever and ever.
Amen.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Elections Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
There will be an immediate meeting of the
Elections Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
May we have the reading of the
Journal, please.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Sunday, February 22, the Senate met pursuant
to adjournment. The Journal of Saturday,
February 21, was read and approved. On
motion, Senate adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Without objection, the Journal stands approved
as read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano,
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from the Committee on Investigations and
Government Operations, reports:
Senate Print 749, by Senator
LaValle, an act to amend the Tax Law;
1197A, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
1606, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law;
2514B, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Public Lands Law;
3129C, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
3930, by Senator Little, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
4173, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
4226, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
4227, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;
4228, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
4241, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
4806, by Senator Spano, an act to
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amend the Executive Law;
4812, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
5136, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Civil Rights Law;
5144, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
5151, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Tax Law;
5803, by Senator Spano, an act to
amend the Executive Law;
And Senate Print 5957, by Senator
Seward, an act to amend the Tax Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All
bills reported to third reading.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Rath, I move that the
following bill be discharged from its
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respective committee and be recommitted with
instructions to strike the enacting clause:
S3565.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
ordered.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Velella, on page number 13 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 156, Senate Print Number 5970, and ask
that said bill retain its place on Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
ordered.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Velella, on page number 13 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 157, Senate Print Number 5973, and ask
that said bill retain its place on Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
ordered.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Velella, on page number 22 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 275, Senate Print Number 3194, and ask
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that said bill retain its place on Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
ordered.
SENATOR McGEE: Mr. President, on
behalf of Senator Maziarz, on page number 22 I
offer the following amendments to Calendar
Number 278, Senate Print Number 4417A, and ask
that said bill retain its place on Third
Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
ordered.
Thank you, Senator McGee.
SENATOR McGEE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
believe there's a substitution at the desk.
If we could make it at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 21,
Senator Hannon moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Health, Assembly Bill Number 9212
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and substitute it for the identical Senate
Bill Number 6036, Third Reading Calendar 270.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Substitution ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will read the noncontroversial
calendar.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 264B, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
the designation of the "General Casimir
Pulaski Highway."
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section, please.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
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bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 924C, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
designating the "North Fork Wine Trail" and
the "Hamptons Wine Trail" as the "Long Island
Wine Country Trails."
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
68, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2262, an
act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to
the regulation of licensed transmitters of
money.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
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act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
105, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2989B, an
act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in
relation to extending the time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
111, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 776,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to the enforcement of the offense
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of operating a motor vehicle with a suspended
license.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
120, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4230, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to the definitions of a car carrier
and overhang.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section, please.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
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THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. Nays,
1. Senator Hassell-Thompson recorded in the
negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
140, by Senator Skelos --
SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is laid aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
145, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5912A, an
act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,
in relation to the service of a subpoena duces
tecum.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section, please.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
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THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
177, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 2961A,
an act authorizing the assessor of the Village
of Freeport to accept an application.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
178, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3794A,
an act creating the Lewiston Public Library
District.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
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THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
198, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
1485, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court
Procedure Act, in relation to computation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes --
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Withdraw the roll call.
Lay the bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
202, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5512,
an act to amend the Real Property Law, in
relation to filing of maps and abandonment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
214, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 422, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
establishing the vehicular assault of a
provider.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
the bill aside, please.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
231, by Senator Little, Senate Print 2629A, an
act authorizing the payment of ordinary
disability retirement benefits.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
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act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
237, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 4062A --
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
the bill aside, please.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go to the controversial reading of
the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: I'd like
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar Number 111 and Calendar
Number 120.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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Without objection, so ordered.
Senator Skelos, can we read the
controversial calendar?
SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr.
President.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
140, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 554 --
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:
Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos, an explanation has been asked
for.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
this legislation will eliminate discretionary
parole for violent felony offenders who have
been convicted and sentenced for three or more
violent felonies in a ten-year period.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
If the sponsor would yield, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
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Senator yields, Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I know I raised some of these
issues last year, and I think some of my other
colleagues did. But I guess I'll just narrow
it down to one question this year.
So under your proposal there would
never be any judicial discretion, no matter
what the types of felonies were? There were
three felonies, and therefore there is no
judicial discretion to ever reconsider for an
individual?
SENATOR SKELOS: I'm not sure if
you heard my explanation at the beginning. It
was three violent felonies within a ten-year
period.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay.
Thank you for the clarification.
Mr. President, on the bill, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I'd like to thank Senator Skelos
for his explanation and the clarification of
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the explanation.
Again, as I voted against this bill
last year, I will vote against it again this
year. While on its face three violent
felonies in a ten-year time period might
appear to justify life imprisonment without
parole, we legislate, hopefully, on the
exception and not the rule and not to have
laws that are such that a judge can never be
in a position where they can make an
individual evaluation of the circumstance.
And I feel that for the State of
New York to pass a law that takes away all
judicial discretion, even in this one category
for three violent felonies in a ten-year
period, is not an option we should be taking.
I would argue there are few judges who
perhaps -- or few parole panels who would
consider parole. But nonetheless, I don't
think the State of New York should bind itself
to life imprisonment without parole options
for any individual prisoners.
This is a broad universe of people,
a broad universe of violent crimes that might
be considered, and I don't think that we in
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the Legislature should pass a law that allows
for no exceptions to the rule.
So I'll be voting against this bill
again this year. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Any
other Senators wishing to be heard?
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President. On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think
that, as Senator Krueger indicated, it's
important to recognize that this legislation
is a part of an ongoing process of
transferring discretion -- not reducing
discretion, but transferring discretion from
judges to prosecutors.
And I would really like to remind
all of my colleagues that we're in a situation
now where we're dealing with extremely long
sentences in the first place. We have
extended the length of the sentences.
In 1995, the mandatory sentence for
the sorts of defendants that we addressed
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under this legislation were substantially
increased. Since then, we've seen many
proposals come and go to further reduce the
discretion of judges.
And while the judges have held onto
their discretion, the crime rate has been
steadily going down. It does not appear that
from any public policy point of view the
criminal justice system requires more severe
sentences to be imposed without judges having
the opportunity to take all factors into
account.
Having worked in a prison for
several years, I really have to tell you that
the notion of people coming into prison with
judges unable to fully and fairly assess all
the factors that are involved in their case,
and without the possibility of parole --
that's to say taking away an incentive they
have to try and rehabilitate themselves while
they're in prison -- is an extremely dubious
proposal.
I don't really think we need this.
I don't think it helps solve the crime problem
in this state. I think the crime problem is
543
best addressed by devoting resources on the
front end to police and to other law
enforcement agencies rather than spending a
tremendous amount of money on high security,
intensive prison construction, and the
maintenance of these prisons that don't really
deter crime and don't really solve the
problems.
A defense lawyer commented -- and I
want to again remind people of this statement.
A defense lawyer, a prominent defense lawyer
has commented that he stopped representing
people who are cooperating with prosecutors
because for those defendants, quote, you don't
just have to teach them how to sing, you have
to teach them how to compose. That's the end
of the quote.
There are people who are really,
frankly, being forced to make things up in an
effort to avoid this sort of sentencing
provision. There are people who are possibly
capable of rehabilitation who are being denied
that possibility. I think we should be as
tough as we possibly can be with these
individuals, but not unreasonably so.
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And I would suggest that once a
prosecutor has the ability to charge a crime
as to which there is no discretion in the
court, that prosecutor has absolute power.
And as much as I have friends and family who
are prosecutors or who have been prosecutors,
we all know what absolute power does to
people.
I vote no. I suggest everyone vote
no.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Any
other Senator wishing to be heard?
Seeing none, read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Count the negatives and announce the results,
please.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 140 are
Senators Dilan, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
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Paterson, and Schneiderman. Ayes, 51. Nays,
5.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Rules Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
There will be an immediate meeting of the
Rules Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
Let's continue with the
controversial calendar. The Secretary will
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
198, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
1485, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court
Procedure Act, in relation to computation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of January.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
214, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 422, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
establishing the vehicular assault of a
provider.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I don't see my colleague Senator
Bonacic, and I have to run to Rules. But I
want to go on record why I'm voting against
the bill --
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
believe he just has his back to you, Senator.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Oh, excuse
me. Thank you.
547
-- why I'm voting against the bill.
Hello. Excuse me. Thank you,
Senator.
I won't ask you questions on the
bill. We had the debate last year. I will
simply state this bill is not based on the
intent of the driver to purposely hit someone
who is an emergency service provider. If it
was, perhaps an alternative criminal penalty
might be justified.
But I don't believe we should have
different criminal penalties for people who
are committing the same kinds of crime
depending on what the outfit of the person or
car they hit is. I don't think that is good
or good public policy or smart law.
So I hope that my colleagues will
think about voting against this bill, again,
because it is not written such that because
you intended to hit an emergency service
vehicle driver or do something to them that
you should have an added penalty. It's simply
a default if they are a driver of an emergency
service vehicle, and I don't think that that
is a rational approach to public policy.
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So I will be voting against the
bill and running to the Rules Committee.
Thank you very much. It's a no.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Thank you, Senator.
Is any other Senator wishing to be
heard?
Seeing none, please read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll, please.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Count the negatives and announce the results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
2. Senators Hassell-Thompson and L. Krueger
recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
237, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 4062A, an
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act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to extending.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Wright, an explanation is requested.
SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
President.
The bill would extend the benefits
of EDZs to agricultural cooperatives. When
the original EDZ legislation was passed and
subsequently amended, ag cooperatives have not
been included.
And we found in a number of
instances where there have been processing
facilities, particularly cheese processing
facilities that are located in rural areas,
they were not in a position to market them to
a cooperative of producers, and many times the
very dairy farmers themselves create a
cooperative because of the exclusion in the
EDZ.
The plants themselves are within
the EDZ; the new ownership simply can't take
benefit of existing benefits under law. So
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this will extend those rights.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor
would yield for a few questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Wright, do you yield for a few
questions?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I will, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
My understanding is that this bill
modifies paragraph H of section 1 -- Section
1, subdivision H of Section 957 of the General
Municipal Law, which defines locally owned
business enterprises for the purpose of an
enterprise zone. Is that correct?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Wright, do you continue to yield?
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SENATOR WRIGHT: I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
My understanding is that --
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Excuse me, Senator Schneiderman.
If we can have a calming down,
please. And if you can take the conversations
out of the room, that would be appreciated.
Thank you.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, thank
you.
My understanding is that the
definition of a locally owned business
enterprise currently requires -- and I'm
reading from the statute -- that to get the
benefits of the enterprise zone, any business
has to be, quote, a business firm in which the
total ownership interest held by individuals
who are full-time bona fide residents of such
zone is more than 80 percent, among other
requirements.
This would provide an exemption
from that rule, is that not true?
552
SENATOR WRIGHT: No, I don't
believe that's the case. We had a second ii
provision for an ag cooperative established to
the subsequent section.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President, if the
sponsor would continue to yield.
SENATOR WRIGHT: I will, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But this
legislation that you're proposing would add
Section ii as an alternative.
So you could either get the
benefits of an enterprise zone if you were a
business firm in which the total ownership
interest held by individuals who are full-time
residents of the zone is more than 80 percent,
whose business activities are conducted in a
manner whereby at least 50 percent of the
assets of such firm are located and utilized
in such zone and at least 40 percent of the
firm's employees are principally employed in
such zone. Three stiff requirements. Or if
553
you're an agricultural cooperative.
And is it not true that if you fall
under Section ii and you're an agricultural
cooperative, then you don't have to comply
with the provisions of the first section,
which every corporation and other business in
this state has to comply with?
SENATOR WRIGHT: Senator, you're
correct that we do provide an inclusion of a
agricultural cooperative.
And if you read further down,
you'll also note, on line 12, provided,
however, for business firms located within
zones designated in a city, then there's an
approval process with a community planning
board, et cetera. So that we're reflecting
the local interest and there is local
participation.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Mr. President. But that's only for --
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
554
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
That does not apply to firms not
located outside of the city, does it?
SENATOR WRIGHT: It provides to
those that are located within the zone. And
there's a local governance for the zones.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But
through you, Mr. President --
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Wright, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I just want to clarify this, that
the language you just cited on lines 12 and 13
only applies to "business firms located within
zones designated in a city"; is that not
correct?
SENATOR WRIGHT: That is correct.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Mr. President, on the bill.
555
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I thank
the sponsor for his answers.
I think that what we're dealing
with here is a situation in which once again
the original purpose of enterprise zones is
really being -- of Empire Zones is really
being distorted. And I think this is
something that has been going over a period of
years, to the point that it's really very,
very difficult to recognize a lot of the
businesses in the zones if you analyze them
under the original purposes of this
legislation.
The difficulty I have with this
bill is that if there's a business in the
Bronx that's in an Empire Zone or a business
in Queens that's in an Empire Zone, some
manufacturing facility that's bought by an
out-of-state corporation, they lose the
benefits because they don't comply with the
requirement of the total ownership interest
being 80 percent held by people who live in
the zones.
556
This provides a loophole for one
particular type of business enterprise, an
agricultural cooperative. And it may be that
we should change the legislation in its
entirety. But if we're not willing to do
that, we certainly shouldn't make an exception
for one type of business enterprise. I am
sympathetic to the situation that forms the
basis for this. But I cannot in good
conscience create a loophole that doesn't
apply to other companies.
So recognizing the need for local
ownership to obtain the benefits of an Empire
Zone for any other business, I'm going to vote
no and I encourage my colleagues also to vote
no.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. If, through you, the sponsor
would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Wright, do you yield?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I will, Mr.
557
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
And I was out at Rules, so I apologize if I am
repeating a question, and then just tell me it
was already asked.
SENATOR WRIGHT: I will.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Senator.
How many agricultural cooperatives
are there in the State of New York that this
change might affect?
SENATOR WRIGHT: I don't know the
answer to that.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
Mr. President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
Well, I have to say I am concerned
that we don't even know how many cooperatives
this bill would affect, how large an impact
this would have on the existing empowerment
zone model that we have in place in New York
558
State.
Although I would hazard to take the
position that at the rate we keep changing the
rules in empowerment zones, expanding what
they cover, changing the boundaries on now a
yearly basis for the zones, that what we might
rather do in the New York State Senate is
simply expand empowerment zones to include
everyone in New York State.
Because that's the path that we
have taken. From what was started out as one
model -- a model that's set to expire,
actually, this year, and which the Governor
said he intends to reform -- we keep, over
time, and through authorities, expanding the
universe of what Empire Zones cover, who can
be in them, the different tax credits that are
available to them.
At the budget hearing last week
before the Urban Development Corporation, when
the question was asked about how many tax
credits and exemptions have been given out in
empowerment zones in comparison to jobs
created, the Commissioner could not answer the
question how much money has the State of
559
New York lost in tax revenue because of its
decision to have Empire Zones and continue to
expand them, nor how many real jobs were
created.
The fact that in this specific
proposal we don't even know how many
cooperatives might be affected, so we
certainly can't know a projection on how much
lost revenue the state would see or, in
return, how many projected new jobs that
otherwise wouldn't be created would be
created, I have to say I think it is a mistake
for the State Senate to go piecemeal into
continued expansion of a set of programs that
in theory are up for expiration and reform
this year.
And again, I think when the numbers
are finally in, what we will find is that
Empire Zones have been an enormously expensive
model that have not justified the cost to the
State of New York and lost revenue and have
not justified themselves in the number of new
jobs created paying living wages for people in
our state, the ostensible goal of Empire
Zones.
560
And I, for one, would rather see us
use our tax revenue to pay for expansion of
public education rather than to continue to
give expenditures and credits to businesses
who we don't even know the answer in advance
of passing legislation who they are, how large
the tax credits and tax exemptions they might
be getting would be, or what the return will
be for our communities.
So I have to say, at this point in
history, any vote to expand a subsection of
Empire Zones is the wrong direction for
New York State to be going. I'll be voting no
and urge my colleagues to.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Little.
SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Mr.
President. I would just like to speak on
behalf of this bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Little, on the bill.
SENATOR LITTLE: And the question
was asked how it would affect different
businesses and cooperatives in New York State.
561
The McCadam Cheese factory in
Chateaugay was purchased by Agri-Mark.
Agri-Mark is made up of many, many New York
farmers as well. And for the McCadam Cheese
factory in Chateaugay, this takes additional
milk from all of the farmers in that area, at
a time when our dairy farmers have had huge
problems and the price of their milk has gone
down and many of them have had to go out of
business.
The McCadam Cheese factory has
added additional jobs already. They are
making a Pride of New York cheese product that
hopefully will equal what they have done to
the Cabot Cheese factory in Vermont.
So I would ask for support of this
bill and am very grateful that it is here on
the floor today. Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Is
there any other Senator wishing to be heard on
the bill?
Hearing none, read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
562
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll, please.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
2. Senators L. Krueger and Schneiderman
recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
Senator Sabini.
SENATOR SABINI: Mr. President,
I'd like to please be recorded in the negative
on Calendar Number 237.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Without objection.
THE SECRETARY: In relation to
Calendar Number 237, ayes, 55, nays, 3.
Senators L. Krueger, Sabini, and Schneiderman
recorded in the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
Senator Parker.
SENATOR PARKER: Mr. President,
I'd like to request unanimous consent to be
recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
140, Bill Number S554.
563
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Without objection, so ordered.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
reading of the controversial calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you.
If we could return to reports of
standing committees, I believe there's a
report of the Rules Committee at the desk. I
ask that it be read at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
from the Committee on Rules, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 6201, by Senator
Morahan, an act to amend the Election Law;
6202, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the State Finance Law;
6204, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the Election Law;
6205, by Senator Morahan, an act to
amend the Election Law;
6206, by Senator Bruno, an act to
amend the Tax Law and the State Finance Law;
And Senate Print 6207, by Senator
564
Morahan, an act to amend the Election Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept
the report of the Rules Committee.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
motion is to accept the report of the Rules
Committee. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Rules report is accepted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we could just
stand at ease for a moment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senate will stand at ease.
(Whereupon, the Senate stood at
ease at 4:21 p.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
565
at 4:23 p.m.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can we at this time take up Calendar Number
326.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will read Calendar Number 326.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
326, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6206, an
act to amend the Tax Law and the State Finance
Law, in relation to prostate cancer research,
detection, and education.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Read the last section, please.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Bruno, to explain his vote.
SENATOR BRUNO: To explain my
vote, Mr. President.
I want to thank my colleagues here
566
in the Senate for their support. This is a
very important piece of legislation. It has
to do, as you all know, with a tax check-off
for prostate cancer research, aiming towards a
cure. It creates a coalition, a foundation
for prostate cancer.
And what is unique about this is
that Michael Milken, the Milken Family
Foundation, is going to match every dollar
that is contributed here in this state by any
donor. And we believe that this is unique.
Michael Milken has joined us here,
with some of the very distinguished medical
community. We had a two-hour session this
morning on prostate cancer prevention, early
detection and treatment.
And when you talk to Mr. Milken, he
will say that their objective -- and he has
done works over the last three decades to help
cure cancers, and most specifically now
prostate cancer, having started with his
philanthropy having to do with breast cancer
when his mother-in-law, 32 years ago, had that
disease.
So I'm indebted to you for your
567
support and appreciate the participation of
the Milken family, and Michael in particular,
and his colleagues that are here.
And someday, when we all recognize
one out of two men are going to end up with
some form of cancer, one out of three women
are going to end up with some form of
cancer -- this year, 2,000 New Yorkers will
die from prostate cancer; 13,000, 14,000 will
be informed that they have it. Nationally,
230,000 prostate cancers a year; 30,000 people
die. If we don't address this, as Mike Milken
has and as we are, in ten years the estimates
are there will be 50,000 people, not 30,000,
dying from prostate cancer.
So thank you, Mr. President, and
thank you, colleagues, for your support.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Lachman.
SENATOR LACHMAN: First I want to
commend our Majority Leader, Senator Bruno,
for sponsoring this legislation, along with
Senator Alesi.
Only a Majority Leader can get
something out of Rules and on the floor in one
568
day so that Michael Milken can observe what
the Senate has done today. It's an
outstanding piece of legislation, and it will
do much good -- much good -- in the State of
New York.
I also want to commend Michael
Milken, who is here with us today. Very few
people realize that the Milken Family
Foundation has been involved in numerous
health and educational and cultural
activities.
In the 1990s, the Milken Family
Foundation, Michael and his brother Lowell,
contributed tens of thousands of dollars each
year to the CUNY -- the City University of New
York -- Graduate Center, to bring together the
leaders of the public and nonpublic school
communities in the twenty largest cities in
America. I will never forget their effort in
this endeavor. I was privileged to serve as
chairman of this group.
And I hope and pray that the Milken
Family Foundation will continue in the process
of helping society in good health for many,
many more years to come. Congratulations,
569
Michael.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Paterson.
SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I think there are probably several
members of this chamber who have been
afflicted, some publicly, some not publicly,
which is certainly an individual decision.
The leader of this conference, on a Friday in
August last year, made the decision to be
public about his issue and gave up his privacy
and private life to become a leader on this
issue.
Which shows that he's more than
just an elected leader, he's more than just a
leader of his peers or a leader around the
state, he is a leader of people, not just
among them.
This has, I think, resolved him to
be actually a stronger person than even
before, because of the great good that he's
done and the tremendous help that he's given
to the cause, and to bring as distinguished an
individual to our chamber -- we welcome
570
Mr. Milken today -- and all of us around an
issue that is so vital and spreads at such a
terrific rate.
Some of those statistics, that
90 percent of males over 70 years old will be
afflicted in some form, and all of the
measures that we're even taking now to try to
stop it, even with the use of alternative
therapies such as beta-sitosterol, which is an
element that contributes to reducing the
actual disease -- these are all
different avenues that we will investigate,
plus the traditional treatments.
And this is a fight that we can win
when there is public awareness and public
education and also a commitment from
government to actually fight it.
So on behalf of all the members of
this conference, we can't think of a time that
we've ever stood in this chamber when we are
proud to serve under Senator Bruno's
leadership, and we can't think of an issue
that is a greater menace to so many people in
society that we would need to fight any harder
than we would right now.
571
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr.
President.
I join my colleagues in asking the
support of this bill for all of the families
in New York State, and in recognizing that
whenever we've had a great issue before us,
especially when it deals with health care,
that there has to have been one person who
ignites the fire and one person who starts
that engine, one person who energizes the
issue to the point where it comes to the
floor.
And we can look around, not only
today but in the past, and unfortunately in
the future, and know that there are people
that are family members, people that are
friends and colleagues that will be affected
by prostate cancer -- not the least of which
is our leader, Senator Joe Bruno, who has had
his own challenges and has met them with great
courage, but also been an inspiration.
And by taking the charge on this
bill, Senator Bruno is just simply continuing
572
his commitment to the health care and welfare
of all New Yorkers that he started years ago
when he started his political career.
So I'd like to thank Senator Bruno
for his leadership, for showing us how to be
courageous. And in doing that, I'd also like
to thank Michael Milken for bringing another
aspect to this particular piece of legislation
which allows us to leverage the money that
taxpayers are willing to check off on, and all
of those colleagues that joined Michael Milken
and Senator Bruno today in their seminar.
And most importantly, time and time
again we hear how important it is to get early
diagnosis. If this bill does nothing else but
remind taxpayers every year when they have the
opportunity to check off a certain amount of
money, when they have that opportunity it will
remind them that they should have a checkup.
And in getting that checkup, hopefully
everything will be fine. But if not, early
diagnosis is always the key.
Yes, we want to provide funding for
research, hopefully for a cure, for treatment.
But at the same time, we want to remind people
573
of the importance of getting an annual
checkup.
Senator Bruno, thank you for your
leadership on this. And thank you, Mr.
President, for the opportunity to speak.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Bruno.
SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
can I recommend that any of my colleagues in
the Senate that would like to be on this bill
join us on this bill as cosponsors. And any
that would not want their name added, would
you please just privately notify the desk.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
We'll follow our usual procedure. Any Senator
not wishing to be on the bill, please notify
the desk.
Senator Diaz.
SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Mr.
President.
As you know, I am from Puerto Rico.
And when we talk about prostate cancer, my
father died of prostate cancer. Two of my
brothers have died of prostate cancer. Right
574
now, at this very moment, another one of my
brothers is dying in Puerto Rico of prostate
cancer. So this is an illness that is
following my family. And I don't wish for
anyone to go through what my family has gone
through and what they are going through right
now.
So I am here praising Senator Bruno
and Mr. Michael Milken. And I wish, I just
wish that we could do the same thing in Puerto
Rico to bring the Milken Foundation to Puerto
Rico and do the same thing. This is something
that I'm very proud, very honored to know,
because I have gone through what people go
through with this kind of illness.
Senator Bruno, Senator Bruno, one
more time, I praise you and I admire you and I
thank you for this bill. This is something
that has merit anyplace. And I'm glad we -- I
would be honored to join you on this bill.
Thank you very much.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Volker.
SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
very quickly, I too want to commend Joe -- or
575
Senator Bruno for this bill.
You know, I was just thinking that
it was almost exactly this day ten years ago
that an elderly doctor called me -- and what
had happened is, by the way, so that everybody
knows, I knew nothing about the PSA test. My
doctor, who is a close personal friend of
mine, said: "You know, you should really take
the PSA test." Which was developed, by the
way, at Roswell Park in Buffalo. I just want
to tell you that it was started there.
He took the test, it was a little
high. And anyways, the bottom line is I went
to a doctor who was quite a -- a somewhat
elderly doctor to be checked. And around this
time ten years ago, the doctor called me on
the phone in my Senate office and said,
"Senator, I hate to tell you this, but you
have cancer." And, you know, my legs buckled.
In fact, when I went to Roswell and
told the Roswell people what had happened,
they were horrified. I mean, they said that
should never happen. But it's an example, I
think, of some of the things that can happen
to you.
576
At the time -- I will tell you one
quick little story -- I was thinking about
running for attorney general. I don't want to
get into it, but there was a possibility that
I might have run for attorney general, and the
rest would have been history. But I obviously
decided that was not in the cards.
That was '94. I had the surgery in
April. And as is so often the case, as Joe
knows, and many of us that have had cancer,
somebody said the death watch started in
Buffalo.
Well, ten years later -- it will be
ten years in April -- still here. Thank God,
I'm still here. But I have to tell you that I
credit my doctor for telling me about the PSA
test.
And the more I thought about this
bill, I happen to think that the fact that
it's on the return, probably the most
important thing lies in -- and people, when
they read their tax returns, I assure you
they'll read that. I know all my friends
will. And it will remind them that there is a
fairly simple test that can determine,
577
sometimes, life or death. Because the earlier
you get to it, the better off you can be. And
the more advice you get -- because I must tell
you, I have advised hundreds of people, most
of the time just advised them where to go and
who to talk to.
And unfortunately, and I will only
say this one very close friend of mine, who
was a close friend of many people in this
chamber, failed to take my advice and the
advice of several doctors -- he'd had many
doctors. And as he was dying, he said to me:
"If I had listened to you, I wouldn't be dying
today." Because he was afraid of the surgery.
And that was Senator Daly, John Daly, who was
my very close personal friend.
But the thing you should understand
is if he had found it earlier and if -- you
know, the situation would have been different.
Or could well have been much different. And
unfortunately, John, you know, passed away,
although he was considerably older -- he was
ten years older than I was.
But I only point out to you if I
were going to give somebody advice -- and my
578
children, for instance, now that I've had it,
they've been already warned that very early
they're going to have to take the test.
Because if you have a history, you've got to
be very careful especially. However, there
was no history in my family. None at all.
And yet it is something that I
think -- and, Senator Bruno, probably, you
know, there will be many things that you'll be
remembered for -- getting the trains running
on time, as we call it in the chamber, and all
that sort of thing, and for a lot of
legislation. But maybe in the long haul some
would argue that, thanks to you and thanks to
Mr. Milken, we may be doing something here
today that may contribute to more people's
lives than anything we've done.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will call the roll on Calendar
Number 326.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
bill is passed.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
579
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
immediate meeting of the Civil Service and
Pensions Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
There will be an immediate meeting of the
Civil Service and Pensions Committee in the
Majority Conference Room.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: We'll have the
noncontroversial reading of the Rules report
at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
322, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6201, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
creating a statewide voter registration list.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
580
the bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
323, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6202, an
act to amend the State Finance Law, in
relation to establishing.
SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
the bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
324, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6204, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
providing.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
the bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
325, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6205, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
verification.
SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
the bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
327, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6207, an
581
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
enacting the Voter Machines Modernization Act
of 2004.
SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay
the bill aside.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: If I may have
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar Number 140.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So
ordered.
SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
we'll go to the controversial reading of the
Rules report now.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
322, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6201, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
creating a statewide voter registration list.
582
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Morahan, an explanation has been
requested.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, Mr.
President.
This bill would create a voter
verification list and a reporting system by
requiring the county board of elections to
transmit a copy of the county voter list
electronically to the State Board of
Elections.
It would also have the State Board
of Elections compile such information from the
counties into a statewide voter registration
list and maintain the list, which will be the
official list of voters in New York.
The list will be accessible to each
county board of elections. The State Board of
Elections will establish a statewide voter
hotline for voters to obtain information
regarding their voter registration.
The system developed to compile the
statewide voter registration list shall be
583
used by the New York State Board of Elections
to provide election results information. And
the State Board of Elections will provide
security measures to prevent unauthorized
access to the list.
And of course anyone who knowingly
tries to defraud, based on baseless voter
registration information to either the State
Board or the county board of elections, would
be guilty of a Class E felony.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor
would yield for a few questions.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Morahan, do you yield for a few
questions?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I take it
that this package of legislation that we're
addressing this afternoon is the proposal by
584
the Majority to comply with the Help America
Vote Act of 2002; is that correct?
SENATOR MORAHAN: That is
correct.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
through you, Mr. President --
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Morahan, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
I'm advised that our colleagues in
the Assembly have introduced a package of
bills in an effort to comply with the Help
America Vote Act, or HAVA, as well and are on
the floor today passing them.
Do any of the bills in our package
here in the Senate match up with their
counterparts in the Assembly?
SENATOR MORAHAN: I did not see
with the bills in the Assembly. I know
they're coming out with a package. If it's
similar to last year, there's a lot of
differences that we'll have to negotiate.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Mr. President.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Morahan, do you yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: So as of
the presentation of these bills to us today,
there has not been any discussion or
negotiation to see that they're the same as
the bills that will pass the Assembly today?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Well, there
have been discussions with Assemblyman Wright.
I've had hearings with Assemblyman Wright, and
we've talked about it. But we didn't talk
that specifically about his bills or these
bills.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President, the
hearing that the sponsor referred to, is that
not the hearing that was the subject of a
minority report in response to the state
implementation plan issued in September 2003
by Keith Wright and other Assembly members?
SENATOR MORAHAN: No, it was not.
It was in Westchester, at the behest of the
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League of Women Voters in Westchester County.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
And through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do
you continue to yield, Senator?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is the
sponsor familiar with the New York State HAVA
Implementation Task Force Minority Report
issued in September 2003 by Keith Wright and
other Assembly members?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Some points of
it, yes. Not in its entirety.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Has there
been any negotiation with the Assembly in
connection with an effort to implement the
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criticisms that are identified in the
September 2003 minority report?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Not knowing all
of the criticism, I can't really answer that
fully.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Morahan --
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
We're going to speak about
individual bills, and we will be offering some
amendments. But I just want to ask a couple
of questions in connection with the package of
bills that is the Senate's response to the
HAVA requirements.
Is there anywhere in this package
of bills wherein we provide for greater access
for people with disabilities to polling places
or voting machines?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Well, the
bills, as we unveil them here today, would
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allow the State Board of Elections to set up
criteria along those lines when they start to
do the specifications for machines.
But one of the bills does provide
for an 11-member advisory committee, two of
which would be people with disabilities or
advocates of disability.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would
continue to yield.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes. Yes, I
do, Mr. President.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
But in my review of the
legislation, I don't actually see any
provision anywhere in any of these bills that
directs the state, directs the State Board of
Elections or in any way provides a requirement
of greater access for people with disabilities
to polling places or voting machines.
Am I missing something? If so, I
would appreciate it if the sponsor could point
to me where --
SENATOR MORAHAN: Well, it's not
spelled out in specifics, because the issues
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of the disabled may go far afield. And I
think they should be considered when they draw
the specifications of the machines. For
example, for those who are sightless, that may
be different than those who are
ambulatory-affected or in that regard have a
different sort of need.
But I believe that the State Board
of Elections is very aware of the needs of the
disabled. And that's why in one of our bills
we establish an 11-person committee, two of
whom would be either an advocate for the
disabled or disabled.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President, who
makes the appointments to that 11-member
board?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Two would be by
the Majority Leader of this house; two would
be by the Speaker of the Assembly. I believe
the Governor would appoint, through the Board
of Elections, the remaining members.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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Senator, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, I do.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I
understand the sponsor's answer regarding
voting machines. Is there any direction for
the Board of Elections or any task force to
address the issue of access to polling places?
SENATOR MORAHAN: No.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, I do.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: In this
package of bills is there anywhere any
direction that the state provide greater
assistance than it's currently providing to
people who have limited ability when it comes
to speaking English?
SENATOR MORAHAN: I believe the
difficulty there would be to define to what
level that inability or that difficulty with
language proposes itself.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Mr. President.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator, do you continue to yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Just one
minute.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
believe the Senator yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I was
wondering when they were going to give you
some help.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Do I seem like
I need it?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no. I
do.
Then, just to try and save time, if
there's anywhere in any of these bills that
the Senate Majority attempts to address or
direct in any way any additional translation
services, training of translators or other
assistance or requirements to upgrade the
services to voters who have limited English
proficiency, I don't see anything. So I'd
appreciate it if the sponsor could point it
out to us now.
SENATOR MORAHAN: There's nothing
in there to point out, Senator.
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A lot of this legislation empowers
the Board of Elections without the specifics
of what it is they are to do and how they're
to do it.
For example, the disability
question you asked a few minutes ago, you
know, HAVA insists, the federal legislation
insists that the disabled and the needs of
people with disabilities are included in the
regulations promulgated by the Board of
Elections.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President. I'd like to thank the sponsor
for his answers and speak briefly on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: What we
have here today I think is objectionable on
several counts. I appreciate the sponsor's
candor, which is usual for him, although
unusual in this Legislature.
The fact of the matter is what we
have here is something that's been -- a set of
bills that are being rushed to the floor with
the knowledge that they don't correspond to
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any of the bills the Assembly is passing, with
the knowledge that we really have not had any
serious negotiations in an effort to come up
with a law instead of a bill.
These bills provide an absolute
minimum, if that, to meet the requirements of
the HAVA legislation. And I think that the
process, which has been under discussion
before in this house and which others of my
colleagues will address, has been flawed from
the beginning. And this just continues the
flawed process.
We have to do something because
we're required to do so by the federal
government. This set of bills does the bare
minimum. And it's clearly not going to be the
final set of bills that are presented to us
before the end of the year, because we're
forced to actually negotiate by the federal
government in this case.
I would suggest that this
legislation doesn't come close to the Assembly
bills, which I frankly think don't go very far
in and of themselves. But there's really no
excuse for us putting these on the floor at
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this point, rushing them through Rules to get
them to the floor just so we have something
the same day as the Assembly, when they really
don't address numerous critical needs and they
contain a variety of flaws that I think we can
address as we go through individual bills.
Today we're going to offer
amendments to address several of these points.
But the overall problem here is again the
illusion that we attempt to give in Albany
sometimes that we're taking action when in
fact we're not taking action. We have to deal
with the fact that the voting system in this
state is severely flawed. There are thousands
of people -- and we all know this -- who are
disenfranchised by the current system. We
have an opportunity to address it. The
federal government is offering some funds to
address it. And this package of legislation I
respectfully submit does not even begin to
address it.
So I'm going to vote no on this and
on the other bills -- with the exception of
the bill that just creates the bank account so
we can get the money deposited if we should
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ever comply with the federal law and the
federal government should provide us with that
money -- because these don't begin to come up
to the plate. We should expect more, and our
constituents expect more. And I would urge
that it's time to start talking with the
Assembly and it's time to take a more
expansive view of this.
Are we truly interested in
enfranchising people? Are we truly interested
in making sure that it's as easy as possible
for people to vote? If we are, I respectfully
submit that we would not be passing this
package of legislation, we'd be passing
legislation that in the spirit of the Voting
Rights Act seeks to extend the franchise and
cut down the barriers.
There are many people who are
afraid even to go to polling places at this
point in time. And the requirements of the
HAVA Act for identification and for electronic
voting have the potential, if this is not
handled extremely carefully, to discourage
votes, to cut down on the number of voters,
and really to set back the progress that's
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been made since the Voting Rights Act was
passed in the early 1960s.
Given this framework, I don't think
we're meeting our responsibility when we just
say, well, we're going to throw everything to
the Board of Elections without requiring them
specifically to address these issues.
So I am going to vote no on this
bill and the other bills. We have some
specific suggestions. We're happy to
participate in negotiations, should we be
invited. We are -- I note that the Minority
Leader of this house does not have an
appointment to the proposed 11-member board,
so apparently we're not being invited. But
should anyone seek our input, we have a lot of
people in our conference with a lot of
experience with the Voting Rights Act and with
this area of law, and we would be happy to
provide it.
In the absence of a more serious
effort, though, I vote no and I urge everyone
to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Any
other Senators wishing to be heard?
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Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I think
Senator Sabini had his hand up.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Sabini.
SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Mr.
President. I rise on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Sabini, on the bill.
SENATOR SABINI: I want to
address my remarks really to the package of
bills regarding the Help America Vote Act and
say that while I think the sponsor and
committee chair has been trying to move the
agenda forward a little bit, these bills don't
do the job. They are, as Senator Schneiderman
mentioned, I believe a response to actions of
the other house. And unfortunately, that's
the way this town and this State Capitol
works.
We've known the requirements of
HAVA for some time. We passed some bare-bones
legislation in this house last year. But as
usual, like we are with the Campaign for
Fiscal Equity decision, we're in a state of
598
denial. We wait until the last minute, play
legislative brinksmanship, and the package
that comes out is ultimately flawed because of
lack of participation and a rushed product.
And that's just not the way to go.
I find it ironic that really the
sponsor's reference to discussions with the
Assembly Majority occurred at a meeting of the
Westchester County League of Women Voters --
not in a joint committee, not in a conference
committee, not even in this building.
Some time ago I wrote to the Senate
Majority Leader asking that these bills be --
or that HAVA implementation be considered by
conference committee and maybe even joint
committee. The State Constitution provides
our State Board of Elections with being
bipartisan. And all the county board of
elections have to have equal numbers of the
top two parties in our state; equal numbers,
right now, of Democrats and Republicans.
And yet the committee that's going
to study accessibility doesn't have members of
each house of each party. The Speaker of the
Assembly, the Majority Leader of the Senate
599
happen to be from different parties this year,
but structurally those are not bipartisan
appointments.
So yes, this package is a
stepping-off point, and there are some good
things in this package. I applaud the fact
that we recognize in one of the bills that
there should be a paper trail, a verifiable
paper trail. And I applaud the fact that
there is at least an attempt to address this.
But again, it's the structure of how we do
business here that really makes the
legislative product ultimately a flawed one.
In establishing more commissions,
like the Governor did, outside of the State
Board of Elections -- one of the provisions of
one of these bills establishes another
commission -- it's a punt. There's no
specificity in our legislation here about
voting machine requirements. We give that
over to other people. That's again an attempt
by us to sort of be in denial and just say,
you know, it's not our issue to deal with, the
federal government is giving us money, let's
have an unelected group of people decide these
600
issues for us.
That's not the best way to go.
People give us responsibility to be here. And
we should address that responsibility and take
it in the spirit it's offered to us by the
voters.
So I will be offering some
amendment later on, as I know others in our
conference will. But while I think it's a
first step and I think we had to take a first
step, I really think it's an incomplete one, a
late one, and the way it is being done, having
been apparently introduced Friday evening, is
not the best way to have a rational and
complete discussion about this.
So I will consider the bills on
their merits on each one, but I thought it was
important to get up and address the package as
a whole.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield,
please.
601
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Morahan, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, I do, Mr.
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President.
You have a lot of bills, and I have
a lot of questions. But I will try to target
them by bill.
On this bill, 6201 that we're
addressing, although I share my colleagues'
concern about the overall package, this bill
allows for the purging of voter registration
through failure to respond to a mailing. And
I am very concerned, based on the patterns in
several other states of having followed this
lead, that we will end up wrongly purging
voters from our voter registration system,
they will go to vote on Election Day and have
no mechanism to clarify and solve the problem
of having been purged.
So I'm wondering how you plan to
avoid some of the mistakes that have been made
602
in other states when they moved into a "we
mail you, if you don't respond, we purge your
name from our voter records" in this bill.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Well,
currently -- I yield, okay. Through you, Mr.
President, currently we do purge. This is not
really a new innovation, as I understand it.
We do purging at the local level.
They do send out cards from the Board of
Elections every once in a while, to purge the
list. Otherwise the list would grow to
something, you know, beyond us, like the
cabbage that ate Chicago.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through
you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would
continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator, do you yield?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He
yields.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I'm not sure that is the case in
all parts of the state, Senator. Granted, we
have counties, we have cities, we have towns
603
that each run their own board of election.
And we know we don't have a consistent policy.
And I probably do share your view we ought to
have a consistent statewide policy.
But speaking for the City of
New York, we haven't been purging. And I'm
very concerned that if we were to follow the
procedure here, we would result, in the
election immediately following that first
purge, large numbers of people coming to vote
being told they weren't on our voter rolls.
And we already have those problems, at least
in the City of New York, and an inability to
get through the phone system.
But that's an answer. And with the
president's permission to ask you a question,
this also provides for a Class E felony for
the submission of false or aid in the
submission of false voter registration
information.
I'm not familiar with our having
felony charges up until now about assisting
people with applying to vote or registering to
vote. How do you perceive of this translating
into -- I mean, how will this work? We're
604
going to actually charge people with felonies
if they assist you in registering to vote and
then discover something was wrong?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Well, of course
every case would be on its merits. There
would be, you know, somebody to look over the
facts and the circumstances to decide whether
they would pursue any criminal charges. It
doesn't say without fail that it would be.
District attorneys have much latitude under
the law.
But, you know, people can cast
provisional ballots. That will continue.
People will, as they do today, do affidavits.
I recognize that in some cases that may be a
more difficult process. And it is a difficult
process; we're not changing that.
But, you know, as far as purging
goes, I think we have to continue to purge.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.
President, on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
Senator Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
There are some good things in this
605
bill. Again, it's not a same-as bill with the
Assembly, but it does address some of the
requirements of HAVA to go to a statewide
voter registration system, to have one
electronic system accessible to all of the
Board of Elections, to be able to cross-match
between different locales.
But I will be voting against this
bill, and I urge my colleagues to,
specifically because particularly when you're
going to one statewide system, having been in
a state where we've had counties, towns,
villages, cities having their own board of
elections, I think the last thing we want to
do in implementing a statewide system is to do
some kind of massive purge that will result in
potentially thousands or tens of thousands of
voters, at the first election after this took
place, going to vote only to learn that
somehow they weren't in the system.
I would much rather err on the side
of keeping people on who don't show up rather
than mass purging, through a mail-in computer
system, resulting in potentially huge numbers
of New Yorkers not being able to vote.
606
I'm also very concerned about our
jumping to a felony E conviction. While of
course none of us would support knowingly or
intentionally assisting people to register to
vote illegally, I fear that this will send the
message to large numbers of not-for-profit and
community groups and good government groups
who spend their lives and their work trying to
encourage people to register to vote and to
vote, and that this will discourage people and
discourage new voters from wanting to
participate in our system for fear that they
might open themselves up for some kind of
criminal charges, or, if they're an
organization such as a not-for-profit who
might run voter registration drives, that they
will be in fear for their status and their
workers if they participate in voter
registration drives.
So again, while there are good
parts of this bill, because of those two
points I cannot support this bill. And I hope
my other colleagues will join me in voting no.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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Senator Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Still?
Thank you, Mr. President. I said
"still" because I learned the first week of
session my microphone didn't work, and I guess
it still doesn't work.
I certainly appreciate Senator
Morahan's efforts in trying to bring forth
HAVA legislation. But I certainly think it's
just the wrong way to go about it. I think
this should be worked out. Interested parties
should be heard from in some sort of joint
process with the Assembly.
I have to believe we all have or
should have the same goals here. The last big
effort to overhaul the method of voting was a
commission, a temporary state commission set
up in 1985 and '86, which was a bipartisan
effort. Indeed, some of the things that are
being amended here were legislation prompted
by that commission.
At the time I was on the
commission, then Assemblyman Silver -- he was
a number of years away from being Speaker --
was a cochair, along with the late, great
608
Senator Gene Levy. And there were members
appointed by the Executive on it.
One of the things that I'm glad
we're articulating -- I think I've mentioned
this before -- at the time the whole idea was
to come up with a new technology. And most of
the witnesses we heard from were trying to
sell New York punch-card systems. And as a
result of a lot of questioning at a public
hearing, we recommended that punch cards not
be used, but grandfathered in those three or
four counties that were using them for
absentee ballots.
So I know -- getting ahead of
myself, it's a later bill -- I think we're
going to end that. I actually was involved
representing someone in a recount in
Westchester County just this past November
where the deck of cards was put through three
times and got three different results. And
it's just not the way to go.
In terms of a statewide voter
registration list, I think that's a good idea.
But I think we have to think a little bit more
and be a little more detailed in how it would
609
work. I am concerned that one of the
results -- and I know the boards have
attempted to adjust for this -- that came out
of the NVRA, the Motor Voter law, was the fact
that people were being removed from the rolls
because a mail address change was being filed.
And under that federal legislation,
it said, gee, whenever anybody goes to the
post office and files a change of address, the
local board of elections shall be notified and
shall automatically transfer that person --
Florida, wherever it is.
It sounded great, except what it
meant is when your kid went to college in
Florida and forwarded his mail, the whole
family got transferred to Florida, even though
you still had three members living in Queens.
Or when mom and pop retired to Florida, the
kids' voter registrations got transferred as
well.
So if we're going to do this -- and
I have to tell you, in some parts of -- in my
familiarity with New York City, it's really
gummed up the works. You get people coming
and insisting no, they never lived in North
610
Carolina, they've been here all along, why
can't I vote.
So unless we very thoughtfully
address, when we set up a statewide list --
because a statewide list, being the official
list, is more and more remote from where those
people live and where they are voters. We
have to give some thought to how this meshes
with automatic revisions like that.
And by the way, this is not a
criticism of Senator Morahan or the Majority.
Anybody need be criticized. And the same
applies with respect to HAVA. And I'm not
saying that Florida didn't say we had to do
something as a nation.
But the fact of the matter is, of
all of our governing legislative bodies, in my
experience the Congress is the most removed,
believe it or not, from the mechanics of
voting, from the nitty-gritty of how elections
work. Thankfully, they do raise enough money
that they usually can afford to hire good
election lawyers. But they don't do it
themselves, the way a lot of local
officials -- those of us who have been either
611
state legislators or local elected officials
have had to kind of roll up our sleeves over
the years and do it ourself.
So I am concerned that we haven't
fleshed this out enough, how this state voter
file is going to work and how it's going to
interact with some of the other provisions the
county boards still have to enforce.
Including making those transfers according to
that national mail, whatever it is, address
list, to how they are required to make
adjustments from -- to the voter rolls based
on anyone contacting the board. They have to
make after-the-fact adjustments under Motor
Voter for provisional ballots that indicate a
new address.
And I don't know -- and secondly,
you know, let's get real here. I've counted
votes in some county boards of elections that
were very, very small, they had but two
part-time employees as their entire staff.
And to just say, well, they're going to have
this electronic system and they're going to
handle this, just might not be very realistic.
So I just don't think enough
612
thought and preparation has gone into this. I
think discussions to come up with the same
bill between the two houses might facilitate
fleshing out some of those details.
With all due respect to my
colleague Senator Krueger, I'm not too worried
about the felony provisions, since it says
"knowingly." Although, frankly, if you look
at the Election Law, with respect to some
provisions we've used even a more stringent
standard. That's "willfully." And I think
that's even a tougher legal standard. And I
would suggest that we may want to consider
about people, you know, willingly or willfully
filing false things maybe should be a felony.
I'm not sure -- you know, people do
all sorts of things in elections that aren't
legal, aren't proper, but they don't mean to
be criminals. How many times I've heard
people say, "Oh, yeah, I forgot to change my
registration, so I went back to my old address
and voted." He only voted once, though. Yes,
it's not a legal vote. But I assure you,
there are people all over this state who do
that quite innocently. They don't appreciate
613
the legal legalities of voting.
And occasionally -- why are they
wrong? They may just be voting for the wrong
Assembly candidate. But they don't look at --
I've got news for my colleagues. Probably not
news. State Senator, Assembly, that's not
what gets most people to vote. They look at,
like, I voted once, for President. I voted
once, for U.S. Senator. That's why they're
voting. So they don't think they're doing
anything wrong when they do that.
Yes, they are technically not
complying with the law. I don't think -- and
believe me, you know, if you can eliminate
their ballot -- and I've certainly done it --
from that election, you do it, depending on
where in the process you are. But I don't
think those people ought to go to jail. Maybe
they ought to get a letter explaining to them
that you can't do that. Particularly no need
to do that now. Under NVRA, they can do a
provisional ballot and it counts at their new
address. But they don't know that yet.
And that says something else. We
probably don't do enough to educate voters.
614
Now, boards of elections give out a lot of
information to people who are there, who come
to the board of elections, who know where it
is. You can get any information you want
there. I'm talking about the people who don't
even know there is a board of elections.
Certainly don't know where it is. They mailed
in a form sometime.
As long as I've got into it, going
into the rest of the package here, it's great
that the bill that deals with voting machines
requires a paper audit trail verifiable by the
voter. And I want everybody to understand
what that means. Because I've read editorials
about it -- the New York Times just had a
couple -- demanding that we do this. And I
agree. I am one who has stood up time and
time again and said, We can't just let some
computer tell us who won the election. And
when it's really close, it's really important
to count every vote.
And a number of our colleagues here
today and in the past have won by razor-thin
margins after weeks long of counting votes.
And the press never likes that. They write
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stories, oh, why is it taking them six weeks
or whatever. They certainly didn't like the
Florida situation.
The fact of the matter is that
elections, when they are close, always take a
long time to count accurately. And when
everybody gets all upset in one of these
recounts about faults in the system, why it
wasn't a perfect election, people will say,
Why, suddenly, when it's only a 10-vote margin
did this, that, or the other thing happen?
Did these votes get in there that shouldn't
have?
Well, the reality is there is no
such thing as a flawless election. It's just
that when someone wins by 6 or 7 percentage
points, nobody goes back and checks. Except
the folks at the Board of Elections, and
nobody pays attention to the fact that they
actually do recount everything and correct
some mistakes.
But I want to point out something
else, because I've seen it in the press, I've
seen it in letters to the editor, and I've
seen it in some editorials: confusion between
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what it means to have a verifiable paper audit
trail and giving voters an ATM receipt.
Because I have seen newspaper stories and
editorials that interpret that to mean the
voter leaves the voting booth with a paper
receipt that they can verify.
Well, there's two things wrong with
that. One, what are they going to do, come
back eight weeks later, do a recount and say
this was my vote? That's not reliable. So
that doesn't help the authenticity of the
process.
But, two, we have laws that forbid
materials and ballots from being taken from a
polling place, for the simple reason that it
avoids vote buying. And believe me, giving an
ATM-like receipt to every voter showing how
they voted is an old-fashioned ward heeler
with twenty dollar bills in his pocket gift.
Bring me your receipt, show me you voted for
my guy, and you get the twenty bucks.
So we can't allow that. So this
bill correctly defines what is meant by a
verifiable paper audit trail.
With respect to the bill that most
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concerns me and I am going to vote no on,
Senator Morahan, Mr. President, is the
provision for identification numbers and so
on. You know, a Social Security number is a
nine-digit number. You are asking voters to
supply, along with their name and address,
four of those digits.
Now, I haven't done this kind of
math in years. I'm sure my 16-year-old could
do it. But you've probably made it only
25 percent of the task for someone to run
combinations of numbers and figure out your
Social Security number when you eliminate
those four numbers.
But I'll go you one further, Mr.
President -- Madam President, I'm sorry.
Madam President. It's verifiable.
I have a couple of credit cards,
and right on the credit card it says dial
1-800 whatever, and you can get all the
account information. And when I dial it, they
ask me to do one thing. They say punch in the
account number. Well, if I lost the credit
card, that's easy. They got my name and the
credit card there.
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And with respect to two of them
that come to mind, what form of
identification, what further form do they ask
over the phone before they give out all the
account information, or allow transfers, or
allow computer transfers? Because you can do
that. They say mother's maiden name. Well,
you know, that's wonderful. Once upon a time
most people couldn't guess at what that is.
Read the Red Book. I think my mother's maiden
name is in my bio. Read "Who's Who in
American Politics," I know it's in there.
I'll bet I can find out -- give me
all day tomorrow, I can come up with the
mother's maiden name for virtually every
member here. We're all in Internet bios, and
they have mother's name, father's name. And
for younger folks where women haven't adopted,
necessarily, their husband's last name, it's
real easy to find out your mother's maiden
name. You can find out my kids' mother's
maiden name because my wife professionally and
every other way uses the name she was given at
birth. So that's not big secret information.
Ah, but they have a check on that.
619
The other thing they always ask for is the
last four digits of my Social Security number.
So with my mother's maiden name and the last
four digits of my Social Security number, you
can now access bank, credit cards, all sorts
of stuff, make transactions, transfer money,
charge things.
So I don't know where we came up
with this. But I'm telling you, those -- has
anybody else experienced it? They always say
punch in your last four digits of your Social
Security number.
So we're now going to create a
statewide voter file -- that's of course a
public information, where you can look up
people, get their name, address, last four
digits of their Social Security number -- hey,
all you need is their mother's maiden name.
Look it up. Certainly for public officials,
easy to look up. For most people it's easy to
look up. For people you know. If you know
their cousin, you know what their mother's
name was. I mean, there's a million ways --
that's not such high-security information.
So I'm going to vote against that
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provision just for that and that alone. I
think we just go too far here in taking
personal information from people. We want
them to have a voter number? Give them a
voter number. But for us to come up with a
piece of information, even part of someone's
Social Security number -- and it's always
those last four digits they ask for. And I
just think that's just ill-advised.
Nobody's thought that out. But it
certainly occurred to me. And those of you
who may have a credit card number with a 1-800
number on it and you've never tried it, try
it, and that's what they'll ask you for, your
mother's maiden name -- or sometimes, when
you're on a dial phone, they just want the
last four digits of your Social Security
number. They don't even want your mother's
maiden name.
So we're now proposing to have
people who register to vote to provide that
information to the county board, that gives it
to the State Board, that anybody can go in and
look at it. I think that's just very, very
foolish. And I'm not sure if that's an item
621
that HAVA called for or that we just thought
up. Either way, it's just, in my mind -- we
have all these bills that come out about
identity theft and how are we going to prevent
it and what are we going to do about it. And
here we are making it like easy as pie for
anybody to steal identities.
The other thing is this whole idea
of providing identification. It just baffles
me. And I know Congress passed it. I
remember during that debate Senator Schumer
opposed the requirement of people showing ID.
Then the New York Times opined that it was a
good idea to require people to show ID. And
then it wound up in the bill.
We fought in the early '70s to stop
the practice of demanding people show ID when
they vote because it was being used
selectively to harass voters. The kinds of
information -- okay, somebody doesn't have a
driver's license, they don't have the
quintessential -- they don't have the driver's
license. So the bill dealing with this
provides, well, they can come up with these
following other items.
622
One of them -- you know, I'm
reminded -- I think I've told this story
before -- in the 1998 statewide recount and
contest for attorney general, where I was
privileged to be counsel for the then
candidate, now the great attorney general of
the State of New York, one of the things his
opponent said is he walked in the court with a
printout from some nationwide organization and
said, "We have here 120,000 people who voted
in the election who don't exist."
Why didn't they exist? Well, they
said they can't exist. TRW has no record of
them. That means they don't have a credit
card, they don't have a utility bill in their
name, they don't have a car loan in their
name, they don't have a mortgage in their
name, they don't have a bank account in their
name. They're all in New York City. And this
is how the election supposedly was stolen.
One of the newspapers, I believe it
was the New York Times, you know, how are you
going to answer that? Well, they randomly
picked 600 of those names and checked and
found all of those people where they said they
623
lived. But life in a large urban area is such
that, first of all, people often don't have
the utility in their name. It's in their
husband's name, their partner's name, their
other relative's name who has a last name. So
to say bring in a utility bill -- I can assure
you, my wife, being the good spouse that she
is, doesn't have any utility bills in her
name. They're all in my name. She couldn't
show a utility bill showing that she lives
there. That's very common.
And not to get into another topic,
but folks who make the minimum wage in
New York City don't rush with that paltry,
puny paycheck to a bank to put it in a
checking account so they can be charged a
service charge because they don't maintain a
$1,000 minimum balance or a $500 minimum
balance. And they don't pay 10 or 15 cents a
check.
You know, when you bring home such
a paltry sum that you can barely feed your
children with, you know what you do? You go
to a check cashier, you cash it, you pay the
50-cent charge, and you get cash. And you pay
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your utility bill in cash, and you try, you
try and live on it till you get the next puny
little check for your minimum wage work.
But you exist, and you have a right
to vote. Indeed, I would encourage anybody in
that situation, make sure you vote. Don't
exist? So you don't have any of this
information. You don't have a utility bill in
your name, you don't have a lease in your
name. It's in your partner's name. That's
just very, very common.
I know folks who live in other
parts of the state where the population isn't
as mobile, people don't move every couple of
years, people own homes instead of rent,
instead of crash. I mean, look, so you crash
at a friend's apartment. That's where you
live; you live nowhere else. You have a right
to vote there.
And I don't know how we reconcile
this bill with federal case law in New York
State that says homeless people have a
constitutional right to vote. What kind of ID
that fits into this bill would an unemployed
homeless person have?
625
We have federal law that says they
have a right to vote and they have a right to
give that park bench as the place they live.
The only thing they have to do is provide the
Board of Elections with a mailing address, the
mailing address not being the same as the
place where they live. Homeless people never
have the kinds of -- the limited, the limited
types of identification that are contained in
this bill in order to facilitate the
registration of people who don't have a
driver's license.
So, Madam President, I suggest that
there's some good things in these bills, but
that particular bill is woefully inadequate
because it does not address the real situation
that -- I was going to say tens of thousands,
but that Mr. Vacco's lawyers in that case told
us there were 120,000 of them in New York
City. And it turned out they all were
legitimate voters. They simply didn't have a
bank account, they didn't have a utility bill,
they didn't have a driver's license, they
didn't have a credit card. Because that's the
way people live. And that's the way people
626
live in large parts of the city. That's why
the State of New York has, what is it, 38
licensed check-cashers or 48 licensed
check-cashers.
I brought that up before that
judge, who was a great, great judge -- he
happens to be from Albany County -- and he
said, "What's a check-casher?"
You know, that's why they exist.
People don't use the all-American standard
financial institutions when they live at the
bottom or minimum wage in a place like
New York City.
So this bill leaves out too many
New Yorkers. Too many New Yorkers just won't
make it, won't be able to register to vote
because they just don't have this kind of
documentation and they don't have any way to
get it. They have other forms of
documentation, which I think you'll hear about
when my colleagues present their amendments.
But I'm voting against this bill
for the reasons I've said.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
627
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 322 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Dilan,
Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Onorato,
Parker, Paterson, Sabini, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky. Ayes, 45.
Nays, 15.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
323, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6202, an
act to amend the State Finance Law, in
relation to establishing the Help America Vote
Act implementation fund.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
628
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
324, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6204, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
providing.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Morahan, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Madam
President.
Required by HAVA, the
administrative complaint procedure would be
used by any person for reporting to the
New York State Board of Elections voting
violations that have occurred or are
occurring.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
629
Schneiderman, why do you rise?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
One quick question, Madam President, if the
sponsor would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Morahan, will you yield for one quick
question?
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Senator yields.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Madam President, if the sponsor could let
us know what could possibly constitute a
filing or a false complaint that would
constitute a Class E felony. How would that
be distinguished from a mistake?
SENATOR MORAHAN: What do you
mean, from the state? Can you repeat that
question?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The
question is, this makes filing a false or
baseless complaint a Class E felony. And I
would like to understand what the difference
is between a mistake and a false or baseless
complaint.
630
SENATOR MORAHAN: I think the
difference would be in the eyes of the
district attorney who would receive the
complaint from the Board of Elections. If
they feel that there is some knowing and some
willful activity, that then they would measure
that complaint, like any other complaint
that's -- if you bring it to the police
station and they feel, you know, after they do
the investigation, the DA doesn't prosecute,
that's the way it goes.
But I think I would leave that to
the folks who are charged under the criminal
administration of the Penal Law.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President. Briefly on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman, on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think
this is objectionable for some of the reasons
that have been discussed earlier. I also do
think that the only standard that's in here
now for the Class E felony is a knowing
631
standard. And I would respectfully suggest
that that's not enough of a definition for
making a felony out of something that could
very, very easily have been a mistake and does
not provide the guidance that the criminal
justice system requires.
I'm going to vote no, and I
encourage everyone else to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 324 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Parker,
Paterson, Schneiderman, and A. Smith. Ayes,
50. Nays, 10.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
632
325, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6205, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
verification of voter registration
information.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Madam
President, in lieu of an explanation, since I
think many of the issues in this particular
bill have been sufficiently ventilated
earlier, I believe there's an amendment at the
desk and I would like to have it read and be
heard on the amendment. Or I can waive its
reading and be heard on the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
reading is waived, and you may be heard,
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: On the
amendment?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On the
amendment.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President.
This bill provides for the
verification of voter information and requires
633
voter identification before people can vote.
In addition to the other issues that were
raised, including the Social Security number
issue, which Senator Connor raised -- and I
actually had to talk to one of my credit card
companies this week, and they asked precisely
those two questions -- this bill provides what
I think is an extraordinarily vague and very,
very limited set of forms of identification
that a voter could provide.
It states that the voter has to
provide a current and valid photo
identification with no explanation of what
that is, or present a current utility bill,
bank statement, government check, paycheck, or
other government document that shows the name
and address.
The Assembly bill that is being
passed today includes a far broader range of
possible forms of identification, including
EBT cards, public housing, lease and rent
statements, tuition bills and statements from
colleges and universities, copies of
correspondence, insurance cards issued
pursuant to government-administered or
634
subsidized health insurance programs.
And I respectfully suggest that
this vague and limited list really could
easily be amended to include a far broader
range of forms of identification and to define
what a valid photo identification is. That's
what this amendment does. I would urge
everyone to vote for the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please signify by raising your hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Connor, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
Lachman, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Parker,
Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendment is lost.
On the bill, read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect January 1, 2005.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
635
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 325 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Onorato, Parker,
Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky. Ayes, 45.
Nays, 15.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
327, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6207, an
act to amend the Election Law, in relation to
enacting the Voting Machines Modernization Act
of 2004.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I believe I have an amendment at the desk,
which I'd like to waive reading on.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Reading
is waived.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And I'd
like to speak on the amendment. Thank you,
Madam President.
636
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger, on the amendment.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator
Morahan, this is one of your larger bills
today, and it goes into the issues of voting
machines and the requirements for voting
machines. And my amendment specifically deals
with some of the issues that I think are
absent in this bill for voting machines that I
think are critical, particularly for
addressing concerns for people with
disabilities.
This bill does not direct our local
boards of elections to require that voting
machines meet certain standards for people
with disabilities that I think clearly ought
to be in this legislation and are in fact in
the Assembly legislation.
Specifically, what is absent in
this bill, and I would hope that would be in
final legislation passed between the two
houses when these bills are conferenced, is
not just a requirement within the ADA that all
polling places shall be accessible people with
disabilities, but that also the machines that
637
we choose -- because in fact this bill
primarily addresses requirements for new
voting machines -- that the State Board of
Elections should approve and provide at each
polling site machines that meet different
standards for people with disabilities,
including being equipped with handheld voting
devices; with tactile discernible controls
designed to meet the needs of voters with
limited reach and limited hand dexterity; be
equipped with audio stimulus voting features
that communicate the complete content of the
ballot in a human voice and multiple
languages, which permits a voter who is blind
or visually impaired to cast a secret ballot;
used at the option of a voter, voice-only or
tactile discernible controls; includes sip and
switch voting options; provides standards for
the voting machines to be accessible by
wheelchair; and a series of other proposals
that would help us meet the standards of the
Americans With Disabilities Act and the
standards of election law as defined in the
human rights law for our country.
We can lay this out in this bill.
638
The Assembly has done so on their own. So I
am urging that we follow the guidelines of the
Assembly, put the same requirements in this
bill here today so that we are closer to
same-as legislation in the two houses that
will make sure that tens of thousands of
disabled New Yorkers who for decades really
have not had access to equal rights to vote in
privacy and confidentiality will have those
same rights as the rest of us when we go
forward with new machines.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please signify by raising your hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Connor, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
Lachman, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Parker,
Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendment is lost.
On the bill, read the last section.
Senator Sabini.
639
SENATOR SABINI: Madam President,
I believe I have another amendment at the
desk.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: You wish
to speak on the amendment?
SENATOR SABINI: I'll waive
reading of the amendment and briefly speak on
the amendment.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Sabini, on the amendment.
SENATOR SABINI: Madam President,
this amendment would direct the State Board of
Elections to work with local boards of
elections, the people that know their
communities the best, to identify additional
language groups beyond those identified in the
Voting Rights Act and to require those boards
to provide language assistance and written
materials in the identified languages to all
such voters and assistance at the polling
place.
While implementing HAVA is not a
race, it is kind of sad that we are, as of
now, 40th across the finish line and maybe
pushing for 50. And some of those state
640
legislatures that are trying to comply with
HAVA don't meet annually but biennially.
We're here a lot more than a lot of other
legislatures are, yet we've been very slow to
the dance here.
New York should provide some
leadership on this issue. We're a very unique
state in terms of how many ethnicities come to
our shores. Many, many, many, many of us are
children of immigrants, or our parents are
children of immigrants, and that continues.
It's part of the American dream. And yet our
voters come to our shores, become citizens,
and when they're asked to participate, now we
have a rather limited number of languages in
which they can participate in.
And while English is a requirement,
limited requirement for citizenship, many of
the people who vote in places like Queens
County, where I represent, English is not
their first language, and the complexities of
conducting an election may be beyond their
English proficiency.
So this amendment would require the
State Board to come up with languages in
641
counties where they're prevalent by a certain
number of people and ask that those local
boards file with the state to make those
language-assistance translators and written
materials available to those voters who need
them.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please signify by -- I'm sorry.
SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: I just want to
commend Senator Sabini for his amendment. As
somebody who represents 100,000 Asians, I
think this is very necessary.
Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Those
Senators in agreement with the amendment
please signify by raising your hand.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
Connor, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
642
Lachman, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Parker,
Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
amendment is lost.
On the bill, read the last section.
Oh, Senator Krueger. I'm so sorry.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
President, briefly on the bill, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
We had a series of amendments, and
so clearly we had some recommendations for
your bill, Senator. But I will tell you that
I will be voting against your bill today,
because while it addresses some of the issues
we need to address, it's not enough.
It's not enough because this state,
as Senator Sabini just pointed out, is late in
moving forward as we need to on a full package
of legislation on HAVA. And what this bill
does in not putting enough specifications in
about what these machines that we're going to
be purchasing are, it leaves us open to too
643
many dangers, in my opinion.
While I am very pleased to see that
since last year your bill's moved forward with
voter-verified paper audit trails, since that
time the research has also been enormous on
how many errors are being made by machines
throughout the country, how easy it seems to
be able to hack into the various systems for
anyone who's got a year or two at one of the
top technology universities in this country,
and how serious the risks and the dangers are.
So I am very concerned that in this
bill we are leaving it to counties and to
cities to make decisions on different machines
throughout perhaps the entire state. While in
your bill the state would recommend machines
and specs for machines, it leaves us open to
having a mismatch of -- or a mix and match of
different machines with different standards
and different abilities to accurately count
the vote throughout the state.
I do believe that HAVA calls for us
to have a standardized system for machines
statewide, for voter education statewide, as
well as the voter registration that we talked
644
about earlier. And I don't believe that this
bill goes far enough and has enough meat in
it, so to speak, enough requirements on the
types of things we ought to be having in every
single county for every election.
We talked about, in our amendments,
access for the disabled. We talked about
access for people who read other than English.
We didn't get into enough details about the
specs around what the protections for those
machines are.
Several newspapers here in our own
state have highlighted stories about how
people can easily break into these machines
physically and through electronic machines. I
went to a demonstration myself in New York
City last week of the different machines being
marketed to the State of New York. I am not a
computer nerd or technically expert person. I
could find mistakes or risks or problems in
each of them. Even the concept that many of
these machines were physically light enough
that you could walk out with them, and walk
out the door with the voting results from that
ED.
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We need to do better before we go
forward. And I'm also concerned, although I
don't hold us here in the Legislature
responsible, we're supposed to be moving
forward with HAVA on a speedy timeline, when
the Bush administration has cut funding this
year for HAVA from $800 million to
$40 million. So even the question of what
funds we'll have available for all these new
mandates on ourselves is an unknown question
for us right now.
I fear that like the "No Child Left
Behind" Act of the federal government, without
the funds to ensure the education our children
need, that HAVA may end up being our "Every
Voter Left Behind Act," absent the federal
funds.
And yet we have to go forward.
This little bill is inadequate for us to do
so. So I'm urging my colleagues to vote no on
this legislation.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Morahan.
SENATOR MORAHAN: Yes, Madam
646
President. I'm going to take the liberty to
speak to the bill and the other bills in this
afternoon's package.
In October of '02, the HAVA bill
came out of Congress and became law, with
timelines that would mandate that we would be
in a reasonable position to enact HAVA by
November of '04. Obviously, we are not
anywhere near that and we have been fortunate
enough to file and receive a waiver to '06.
And the purpose of these bills
today is really to start the engine going for
what we will do as a state. These are bills
that cover many of the concerns of HAVA in the
broad sense. We understand that. We
understand, too, that we did not take a
position on some of the specifications of the
machines themselves, for the very good reason
that you're bringing out on the floor. We
don't know a whole lot about all these
machines, we don't know all that's available,
we don't know about the hackability of these
machines.
But we do know there are certain
things we want. We want them to have a paper
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trail, an audit trail. We want to have all
boards of elections to do audits on the
machines. We have left, by design, a lot of
the regulation and specifications to those who
are going to work with this on a very
day-to-day basis, the Board of Elections who
are in charge constitutionally, or by law, to
execute and to fulfill the requirements of our
elections.
Now, some of the advice that came
out today is good advice. Some of the advice,
if we get into designing the machine on the
floor here, I would wonder what that machine
really would look like at the end of the day.
Okay?
(Laughter.)
SENATOR MORAHAN: So some of this
is left to the experts. There's plenty of
time for review.
Yes, the Assembly has come out with
a package of bills. Yes, we've come out with
a package of bills. No, they're not the same;
we recognize that. But now hopefully we will
get into the business, the serious business of
negotiating bills.
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These are the Senate Majority
bills. This is how we feel about it at this
time. And I thank everyone for their courtesy
and for listening to the bills. I think the
debate was enlightening, and we'll move
forward from here.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 327 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Connor, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Onorato, Parker,
Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, Stachowski, Stavisky, and Wright.
Ayes, 44. Nays, 16.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Please recognize
649
Senator Smith.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
A. Smith.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
Madam President. I request unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
Number 140, Senate Bill Number 554.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: If we can return
to reports of standing committees, I believe
there's a report of the Civil Service and
Pensions Committee at the desk. I ask that it
be read at this time.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach,
from the Committee on Civil Service and
Pensions, reports:
Senate Print 1844A, by Senator
Velella, an act to amend the Retirement and
Social Security Law;
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2070A, by Senator Maltese, an act
to amend the Administrative Code of the City
of New York;
2124B, by Senator Skelos, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
2268A, by Senator Bonacic, an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
Law;
3251A, by Senator Maziarz, an act
to amend the Retirement and Social Security
Law;
3299A, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
3300A, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the General Municipal Law;
3376A, by Senator Marchi, an act to
amend the Retirement and Social Security Law;
4101A, by Senator Robach, an act to
amend the Civil Service Law;
And Senate Print 4258A, by Senator
Padavan, an act to amend the Retirement and
Social Security Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
651
objection, all bills reported direct to third
reading.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: No,
there is not.
SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
further business to come before the Senate, I
move we stand adjourned until Tuesday,
February 24th, at 12:15 p.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, February 24th, at 12:15 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 5:52 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)