Regular Session - March 8, 2004
852
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
March 8, 2004
3:39 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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P R O C E E D I N G S
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will please come to order.
May I ask everyone present to
please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance to the Flag.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: In the
absence of clergy, may we each bow our heads
in a moment of silence.
(Whereupon, the assemblage
respected a moment of silence.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading
of the Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Friday, March 5, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Thursday,
March 4, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
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Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
President, has the Senate received a
resolution from the Assembly advising the
members of the Senate that the Senate and
Assembly will meet at noon tomorrow in the
Assembly chamber to elect Regents of the
University of the State of New York, pursuant
to Section 202 of the Education Law?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Notice
has been received, and it's on file with the
Journal Clerk's office, Senator.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you
very much.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Thank
you, Senator Schneiderman.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward,
from the Committee on Insurance, reports the
following bills:
Senate Print 1279A, by Senator
Saland, an act to amend the Insurance Law;
5918A, by Senator Seward, an act to
855
amend the Insurance Law;
And Senate Print 6208, by Senator
Seward, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
Senator Hoffmann, from the
Committee on Agriculture, reports:
Senate Print 616A, by Senator
Hoffmann, an act to amend the Agriculture and
Markets Law;
2777A, by Senator McGee, an act to
amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;
5865, by Senator Larkin, an act to
amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;
And Senate Print 5868, by Senator
Larkin, an act to amend the Agriculture and
Markets Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
bills reported directly to third reading.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there will be an immediate meeting of the
Civil Service and Pensions Committee in the
Majority Conference Room.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
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Immediate meeting of the Civil Service and
Pensions Committee in the Majority Conference
Room.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Fuschillo.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, on behalf of Senator Volker, on
page number 5 I offer the following amendments
to Calendar Number 41, Senate Print Number
3508, and ask that said bill retain its place
on Third Reading Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On behalf of
Senator Volker, on page number 25 I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 376,
Senate Print Number 4844, and ask that said
bill retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
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amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on the Third
Reading Calendar.
SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
President, on page number 25 I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 379,
Senate Print Number 5396, and ask that said
bill retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
amendments are received and adopted, and the
bill will retain its place on Third Reading.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there's a privileged resolution, 3757, by
Senator Rath. Could we have the title read
and move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read.
SENATOR SKELOS: And I think
Senator Rath would also like to open it up for
cosponsorship.
THE SECRETARY: By Senators Rath
and Bruno, Legislative Resolution Number 3757,
memorializing The Honorable George E. Pataki
858
to designate March 2004 as "Women's History
Month" in the State of New York, and
commemorating the New York State Senate's
"Women of Distinction" tribute.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Rath.
SENATOR RATH: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
I would like to thank the Governor
for sending this message to us and for
responding to our request to designate Women's
History Month, and recommend to all of my
colleagues that there is a new display in the
Well area, with three new women from the
historical repertoire of famous women in
New York State, not the least of who is there
recognized this year is the first woman ever
to have served as a state senator.
So be sure and stop and enjoy it,
and recommend the display to all of your
friends.
I would like to open up the
resolution for everyone to join me. And if
there is no objection, we will do that
accordingly. Thank you.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is open for cosponsorship. If you
do not wish to be on the resolution, please
notify the desk.
The question is on the resolution.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
there's a privileged resolution, 3758, by
Senator Seward. Could we have the title read
and move for its immediate adoption.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Seward, Legislative Resolution Number 3758,
commending the Virgil Elementary School upon
the occasion of receiving The Business
Council's 2004 Pathfinder Award for
Outstanding Educational Improvement.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
question is on the resolution. All those in
favor signify by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
opposed, nay.
(No response.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
resolution is adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 112, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to reporting of accidents.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
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(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman, why do you rise?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
President, briefly to explain my vote.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman, to explain his vote.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I've
supported similar legislation in the past.
I do want to note that any time we
exempt police officers from accountability for
their actions -- and in this case, for a very,
very good reason, we don't want people
worrying about their own personal insurance
records when they're trying to respond to an
emergency -- but any time we exempt police
officers from responsibility, we have to do it
with tremendous care that it not be taken as a
license to act with impunity.
And the one thing that has been
missing from this legislation that I hope
we're going to be able to somehow add before
it becomes law is some recognition that if
there are police officers who are repeatedly
862
having accidents or some precincts that are
generating an untoward number of accidents,
that there be some mechanism in place to check
that.
We all want police officers to get
to the scene of an emergency as quickly as
possible. We don't want to send a message, in
this or any other circumstances, that the
police are in any way beyond the law when it
comes to the basic responsibility to conduct
themselves in a manner that provides for
safety, both when they get to the emergency
and on their way there.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman, you're voting in the
affirmative?
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman will be recorded in the
affirmative.
The Secretary will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
863
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
27, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1876, an act
to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to appropriate reduced speeds.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
108, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 417, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to allowing volunteer firefighters.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
864
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
121, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4468, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to prohibiting.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
150, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1917, an
act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
to evidence of child neglect.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Lay it
865
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
194, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5834A,
an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation
to the Niagara Wine Trail.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
195, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5837A,
an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,
in relation to authorizing.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of April.
866
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
213, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 59 --
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
224, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1681, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
aggravated harassment.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
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ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
249, by Senator Spano, Senate Print --
SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside for
the day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
bill aside for the day.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
276, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4169, an
act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in
relation to the death benefits for police
officers.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
868
392, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 520, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
relation to creating the Village of Westbury
Community Development Agency.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
393, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 722, an
act authorizing the Town of East Hampton,
Suffolk County, to establish road and highway
improvement.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home-rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
869
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
397, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 5082, an
act to authorize the Village of Walden, County
of Orange.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
a home-rule message at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
399, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
5888, an act to amend the Town Law, in
relation to including the Onondaga Hill Fire
870
Department.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Larkin, that completes the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
can we now move to the controversial calendar.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
150, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1917, an
act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation
to evidence of child neglect.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Saland, an explanation has been requested of
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Calendar Number 150.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
President.
Mr. President, this is a bill which
we've considered in this house on prior
occasion. What the bill does is it takes that
provision of the Family Court Act that
currently provides that where a respondent --
which in another proceeding would be
considered to be a defendant -- in an abuse or
neglect proceeding is shown to have regularly
participated in a rehab program, rehab with
respect to drugs or alcohol, that that in
effect amounts to a finding or an affirmative
defense, more appropriately, whereby that
person can in effect say that the alleged act
of neglect or maltreatment should not
proceed -- or the proceeding should not
proceed any further, it being considered the
ability as an affirmative defense to make the
petitioner, which would be the Social Service
Department, come forward and claim that in
fact there are other -- there is other
evidence that would warrant the continued --
continuation of the proceeding.
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What this proposes to do is to take
it out of the so-called fact-finding section
and put it in the dispositional section. The
result of that would be that, first and
foremost, a determination would be made as to
whether or not neglect or abuse had occurred.
That finding having been made, the
court would then determine whether in fact the
respondent was voluntarily participating in a
drug rehab program and would then determine
whether in fact that participation was in fact
one which was being driven in good faith, not
merely being used to shield the respondent
from the potential outcome of the neglect
proceeding.
And that would in effect be weighed
by the court. The court would then determine
if the child should remain with his or her
family and whether, again, the parent or
guardian was in fact acting in good faith by
participating in the program.
The idea behind this bill is that
neglect and abuse proceedings should not be
able to be foiled by means of somebody using
the artifice of a supposed involvement in a
873
rehab program when in fact that is being
driven not by a desire for some type of
rehabilitation but a desire to terminate the
proceeding.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Mr. President. On the bill, please.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
I appreciate the Senator's
explanation of his bill. And as I think we
know, I've debated the Senator on this bill in
previous years and discussed it in committee.
And so I just want to reiterate the
reasons why I think while we both share the
same intention -- to protect children and to
make the Family Court process a sound one that
does protect children -- my take on this bill
is in fact that the opposite outcomes will
happen from what Senator Saland hopes will
happen in his bill.
Under this bill, the presumption
becomes that if you go for substance abuse
874
treatment, if you volunteer, if you declare
that in some way, that the court should, by
definition, make an assumption of neglect and
take your child.
In fact, a court, under the
existing law, has perfect ability to follow
through on investigations and remove a child
because they believe there is neglect or abuse
or evidence of, under existing law, where
parents can voluntarily participate in
substance abuse treatment.
Rather, under the proposed changes
that he makes in S1917, it becomes a risk for
parents to participate voluntarily in a
substance abuse treatment program, in my
opinion and experience discouraging parents
from reaching out and getting the help when
they need it, as they need it.
And in fact, people who voluntarily
submit for substance abuse treatment have the
highest outcomes for success, because they are
self-motivated to seek help and to start it
without a court order.
I am also concerned that this bill,
I believe, has been introduced almost ten
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years, I was told -- I've only been here now
for two years -- and the Office of Court
Administration has never actually asked for
this legislation.
When I spoke with both substance
abuse treatment providers in the City of
New York and Family Court judges, I was told
by both of them that they opposed this change
in the law, and they actually thought it was
going to tie their hands and limit their
options under the existing model we have in
the City of New York.
I also feel that our job is to make
sure we protect children, that we get parents
the help they need, but to not make a
presumption that because you have a substance
abuse problem, we should immediately take your
children.
I don't think Senator Saland feels
that way either. But I do believe that this
legislation would translate into a model
discouraging parents from participating in
getting the treatment they need, making it too
quick for the courts to pull children from
their homes when there are better alternatives
876
and supports and services that could be
offered.
And it will tie the hands of
judges, given both the very crowded schedules
we find in the Family Court system and the
drastic shortage of qualified attorneys to
represent particularly poor families in the
Family Court system.
So while I recognize that Senator
Saland proposes this bill in good faith, and I
believe that I work in good faith for the same
goals of protecting our children and improving
our Family Court system and our court system,
I would urge my colleagues not to vote for
this bill. I don't think it will have the
intended consequences.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Senator Hassell-Thompson. We've
got to move this lamp here, Senator
Hassell-Thompson.
Senator Hassell-Thompson.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you. I appreciate it. I thought you were
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overlooking me.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Never.
SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
you.
Mr. President, just on the bill.
Last year I debated this bill
extensively with Senator Saland. And I had
hoped that somewhere in the process of that
discussion, we would have had some changes in
the bill, which I don't see.
I still maintain the concern that,
as the legislation presently exists, that it
gives the kind of discretion to judges that
are important and are necessary in such cases.
And I would like not to have the
Legislature -- I wanted to use the word
"tamper," and that's not what's suggested --
but tinker with this, only from the
perspective that "voluntary" means exactly
what it says.
When you are dealing with persons
who are substance abusers, as well as those
with problems of alcoholism, the first thing
that you understand is that we are talking
about an illness. And from an illness
878
perspective, people do not get well or do not
improve in their condition unless their
participation in their treatment is voluntary.
I think that anyone who does voluntarily
participate automatically is making the first
steps toward recovery.
And so until we begin to discuss
this bill with some hope of seeing the
families and the people that we are discussing
and legislating about, we understand them as
having normal human frailties compounded with
problems of alcoholism and substance abuse
that we have not begun to address from a
budgetary perspective in these chambers, and
certainly from a legal perspective.
And so therefore, I will continue
to vote no. Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator --
Senator Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President.
I note that the current law
vis-a-vis the bill that we're considering
specifically states that the use of drugs and
879
alcoholic beverages and the voluntary
participation, voluntary and regular
participation in a recognized rehabilitative
program, can be used as prima facie evidence
that a person is not necessarily considered
neglecting their child unless that child is in
danger.
But what Senator Saland is doing is
removing the voluntary and regular
participation as evidence that a parent is
genuinely trying to be rehabilitated, and
there is -- in eliminating that language in
this legislation, the parent is automatically
assumed to be neglectful even though they are
participating regularly in a rehabilitative
program.
So I just think that I -- I'm
puzzled as to why Senator Saland is so intent
on removing this positive step on behalf of
parents as a way of saying "I am trying to get
my life together, I desperately want to keep
my family together," and that should be a
consideration up front before any disposition
is made.
So I am certainly, once again, as I
880
have in the past, going to vote no on this.
Because I think it's a step in the back
direction as opposed to really being to
protect children. It seems to me to be taking
away an important aspect as it relates to
parents who are in treatment for drugs and
alcohol.
So I'm voting no, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Mr. President.
I think that this is the tenth
anniversary of this piece of legislation. And
I hope that when we see it next, we may be
able to see it in some modified form.
I think the problem that the
sponsor is seeking to address is quite
apparent. But I think that the language of
this particular bill makes it equally apparent
that this would have severe negative
consequences.
And I'm reading from the first page
of the bill, Section 1, paragraph B, which
identifies a list of conduct that creates a
881
presumption of neglect, including unreasonably
inflicting or allowing to be inflicted harm or
a substantial risk thereof, corporal
punishment, or -- and this is the key
phrase -- or by misusing a drug or drugs.
Anything on that list creates a
presumption that there is neglect. The
investigation goes forward, counsel has to be
there, parents are at risk of losing their
children.
The problem here is we want people
to go into drug treatment. And you are
automatically admitting that you, in the
language of this statute, are misusing a drug
or drugs when you voluntarily enter drug
treatment.
So there's no clearer evidence, in
my mind, that this would create a disincentive
for anyone who had any knowledge at all about
the law in this area, or about the proceedings
in Family Court, to enter drug treatment
programs voluntarily.
I think there are ways that the
issue of people who enter drug treatment just
as a way of sort of avoiding things can be
882
addressed. Although I must say from my own
experience, I think that -- and, you know,
including working in a drug treatment
program -- if you get people in the door,
that's a lot of the struggle. And so I'm not
sure how much work we should do to discourage
anyone for any reason from entering into a
drug treatment program and going to a meeting
that might at some point help them on the road
to recovery.
This bill, however, clearly creates
a disincentive. It tells people if you enter
a drug treatment program, you're essentially
admitting to the type of conduct that creates
a presumption of neglect.
These proceedings will go forward.
We know the problem of counsel. We know the
problem that most of these families can't
afford counsel. And it is a severe burden to
go through the proceeding as well as
ultimately to face the disposition.
The proceeding is not something
that should be treated as something that
people can handle easily in the course of
their lives. They are very troubled families,
883
by definition, many of them at severe
financial risk as well as emotional or
physical risk.
This legislation, well-intended as
it is, clearly would have the effect of
discouraging people from entering drug
treatment. I vote no. I encourage everyone
to vote no.
I would be happy, as I think many
of my colleagues would be, to try and work
with the sponsor so maybe we can start the
next decade with a new and improved version of
this bill that we could actually pass.
Thank you, Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any
other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?
Debate is closed, then.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 150 are
884
Senators Andrews, Dilan, Duane,
Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery,
Parker, Paterson, Schneiderman, and M. Smith.
Ayes, 52. Nays, 10.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Duane, why do you rise?
SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, if
I could have unanimous consent to be recorded
in the negative on Calendar Number 20 and
Calendar Number 108.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Duane will be recorded
negative on Calendars 20 and 108.
The Secretary will continue to
read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
213, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 59, an act
to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the
crime of false personation.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, Senator Montgomery has requested an
explanation of Calendar 213.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr.
885
President.
This bill takes the requirement to
give correct information to a police officer
or peace officer when he or she asks someone
for their identity, it removes the requirement
that the police officer or peace officer
inform the person being asked that if they
give a false answer that there is a penalty
for that, and it increases the penalty from a
B misdemeanor to an A misdemeanor.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President, if Senator Alesi would yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi, do you yield for a question?
SENATOR ALESI: Yes, I do.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
Alesi, I think that we've had similar issues
around the Miranda act. And I was just
wondering why you feel that it is necessary to
just remove this from the law, that a police
officer simply has to say to one that they've
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stopped or that they have come in contact
with, "If you give me the wrong information,
this is the penalty."
Is there a burden? Is that too
burdensome for the police to do that? Or was
there a particular reason why we needed to do
this?
SENATOR ALESI: Well, in the
first place, to remove the requirement, it
doesn't necessarily mean that the police
officer can't give a warning. It simply says
that the police officer doesn't have to give
the warning.
And in most instances, a situation
like this, usually you'll find it's a
one-on-one situation. And so you don't want
to put the police officer or peace officer in
a position where, later on, somebody uses the
excuse that they weren't warned just to get
out of a situation that they created for
themselves by giving false information.
So you don't want to put the police
officer in a situation of having someone lie
as to whether or not he or she gave the truth.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
887
President --
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: If Senator
Alesi would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator,
do you continue to yield?
SENATOR ALESI: Sure.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
sponsor yields.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator
Alesi, what is the implication in that you're
changing from a B to an A misdemeanor? What
does that mean in terms of the severity of the
punishment related to that?
SENATOR ALESI: It stiffens it by
bringing it to an A misdemeanor, at up to a
year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. All
right. Thank you, Senator Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: Thank you.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr.
President, just briefly on the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery, on the bill.
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SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. I have
voted against this in the past, and I will
continue to oppose this just because of the
implications of who would be likely to be
charged and sentenced under this particular
bill.
And I note that Senator Alesi
refers to the issue of identity theft. But I
don't believe this bill is related to identity
theft. The bill is related to a situation
where a police officer comes in contact with a
person, for whatever reason, and under current
law the police officer is required to say to
that person: This is what can happen if
you -- this is what you can be charged with if
you give me false information.
Senator Alesi wants to remove that
requirement and, furthermore, increase the
penalty. And this is going to impact,
especially on teenagers, who probably are the
most likely people that would be in this
situation where you are doing something and
the police officer stops you and there's not
really a crime, necessarily, involved, but you
give the wrong information. Because that's
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what teenagers do.
And if the police can say to them
or is required to say to that young person --
or that person, whoever it is -- that "If you
give me the wrong information, this is the
penalty," that person, young or old, but
especially if they're a teenager, and they
realize that if they lie to the police, they
are going to be charged, they're less likely
to do it.
I see nothing wrong with that.
It's not a burden on anybody. And it takes a
fraction of a second and a little breath for
the police to give that warning to that
person.
So I -- and I think that certainly
I would not want to see teenagers in my
district penalized just because the police
officer does not have to tell them anything,
and once they say something that is not
truthful, the police can charge them with a
misdemeanor -- an A misdemeanor, no less --
and they can receive a year in jail and have
to pay a $1,000 fine because the police
officer didn't warn them, and now the police
890
officer is immune because he doesn't have to
warn them.
So I am going to continue to oppose
this legislation because I think it represents
a potential problem for people in my district.
Thank you, Mr. President.
SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Alesi.
SENATOR ALESI: I can think of
any number of cases where someone who is lying
to the police, regardless of their age, poses
an imminent threat to that police officer when
he has confronted the person.
It could be a teenager, yes. It
could be a teenager who just burglarized a
place. It could be a teenager who has
warrants out for his arrest or her arrest.
And when the police officer doesn't get the
correct information, that police officer's
life could be imperiled. It's vitally
important to recognize that.
It's vitally important to recognize
that there probably is a reason that the
police officer stopped that person in the
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first place. They just don't stop people in
America on the streets. There's usually
something that leads up to that.
And without that knowledge, without
knowing that maybe there is a warrant out,
without knowing that this is someone who might
possibly have just left the scene of some
other crime, then the police officer's life is
imperiled.
And I think if you're going to make
a judgment call on that, then you have to make
a judgment call on behalf of those people that
day in and day out put their lives at risk to
protect our society, especially in a day when
knowing who someone is is so vitally
important, when we're at war with terrorism
all across the world.
And without regard to the person's
age, let me just say that there already is a
penalty for misinforming a police officer of
your identity.
So I would urge the rest of my
colleagues, at least, to understand that this
is an important piece of legislation that
protects society and, most immediately, the
892
police officer when he or she is doing their
duty.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery, to explain her vote.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
President, just briefly to explain my vote.
I certainly understand all of the
points that Senator Alesi has made. However,
this legislation doesn't address any of that
that he has just talked about, terror and
terrorism and all of this other stuff.
What it simply does is removes the
requirement that the police notify a person of
what he's being charged of. And it also, in
addition to that, increases the penalty.
So I will continue to oppose this
legislation.
893
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.
The Secretary will announce the
results.
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. Nays,
2. Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in
the negative.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
is passed.
Senator Larkin, that completes the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
can we return to reports of standing
committees.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports
of standing committees.
The Secretary will read.
THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach,
from the Committee on Civil Service and
Pensions, reports:
Senate Print 1057B, by Senator
Spano, an act in relation to allowing;
2429A, by Senator Wright, an act in
relation to granting;
6189, by Senator Maltese, an act to
894
amend the Civil Service Law;
And Senate Print 6300, by Senator
Robach, an act to amend the Retirement and
Social Security Law.
All bills ordered direct to third
reading.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All
bills directly to third reading.
Senator Larkin.
SENATOR LARKIN: Is there any
housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
no housekeeping, Senator.
SENATOR LARKIN: Please let's
stand at ease for a couple of minutes.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
Senate will stand at ease.
(Whereupon, the Senate stood at
ease at 4:16 p.m.)
(Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
at 4:17 p.m.)
SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
would you recognize Senator Ada Smith.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Ada Smith.
895
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
Mr. President. I request unanimous consent to
be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number
150.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without
objection, Senator Ada Smith will be recorded
in the negative on Calendar 150.
SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
Larkin.
SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President,
there being no further business, I move we
adjourn until Tuesday, March 9th, at 3:00 p.m.
sharp.
ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Tuesday, March 9th, at 3:00 p.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:18 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)