Regular Session - April 27, 2004
1982
NEW YORK STATE SENATE
THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
ALBANY, NEW YORK
April 27, 2004
3:06 p.m.
REGULAR SESSION
LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
1983
P R O C E E D I N G S
THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
please come to order.
I ask everyone present to please
rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Whereupon, the assemblage recited
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
THE PRESIDENT: With us this
afternoon to give the invocation is the
Reverend Kevin Backus, from Bible Presbyterian
Church in Grand Island, New York.
PASTOR BACKUS: Please join me in
prayer.
Father, we thank You that You give
us the privilege of coming before You, not
dressed in our own righteousness but in the
righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.
And today, Father, as we come into
Your presence, we thank You for Your blessings
that You have poured out upon us in abundance
as a people. One of those, the government of
our land, we thank You for as well.
And today, in particular, we pray
for the deliberations of this body, that
1984
everything that is undertaken might be done
with one eye to what would please You and
another to what would be for the good, the
benefit, the welfare, the peace, the
prosperity of the people of our state.
And we thank You for the wisdom,
the direction, and the strength that You do
give, for it's in Christ's name we ask it.
Amen.
THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
Journal.
THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
Monday, April 26, the Senate met pursuant to
adjournment. The Journal of Saturday,
April 24, was read and approved. On motion,
Senate adjourned.
THE PRESIDENT: Without
objection, the Journal stands approved as
read.
Presentation of petitions.
Messages from the Assembly.
Messages from the Governor.
Reports of standing committees.
Reports of select committees.
Communications and reports from
1985
state officers.
Motions and resolutions.
Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
Madam President. On page 22, I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 418,
Senate Print Number 5865, and ask that said
bill retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Maziarz.
SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
Madam President.
On page number 30, I offer the
following amendments to Calendar Number 581,
Senate Print Number 6158A, and ask that said
bill retain its place on Third Reading
Calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: Those amendments
are received, and the bill will retain its
place on the Third Reading Calendar.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
1986
are there any substitutions at the desk?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, there are,
Senator.
SENATOR SKELOS: I ask if we'd
make them at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: On page 4,
Senator Seward moves to discharge, from the
Committee on Insurance, Assembly Bill Number
10286 and substitute it for the identical
Senate Bill Number 5987A, First Report
Calendar 810.
On page 6, Senator LaValle moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Higher
Education, Assembly Bill Number 6065B and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 5386A, Second Report Calendar 807.
On page 21, Senator Seward moves to
discharge, from the Committee on Insurance,
Assembly Bill Number 9699 and substitute it
for the identical Senate Bill Number 5918A,
Third Reading Calendar 414.
And on page 29, Senator Trunzo
moves to discharge, from the Committee on
1987
Transportation, Assembly Bill Number 8934A and
substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
Number 5502A, Third Reading Calendar 554.
THE PRESIDENT: Substitutions
ordered.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
at this time if we could adopt the Resolution
Calendar, with the exception of Resolution
4704.
THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of
adopting the Resolution Calendar, with the
exception of Resolution 4704, please signify
by saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Resolution
Calendar is adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
at this time if you would have the title read
on Resolution 4704, by Senator Little, and
move for its immediate adoption.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
1988
will read.
THE SECRETARY: By Senator
Little, Legislative Resolution Number 4704,
mourning the death of Arthur D. Devlin,
distinguished citizen and devoted member of
his community.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Little.
SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Madam
President. I appreciate having the
opportunity to speak for a moment about the
passing of Arthur Devlin.
Mr. Devlin was a true New Yorker,
one who it is very fitting that his life be
recognized by the New York State Senate. Born
in Lake Placid and graduating from Lake Placid
High School and Syracuse University,
Mr. Devlin accomplished many, many things in
his life.
He was a World War II veteran,
enlisting in 1943 in the U.S. Army Air Force,
cadet, serving as a bombardier, serving 15
missions in the European theater. As a
captain, Mr. Devlin received three
Distinguished Cross medals, five Air Medals,
three Purple Hearts, and two presidential unit
1989
citations.
Mr. Devlin was also an athlete,
beginning ski jumping and skiing, as most
people in Lake Placid do tend to do, in high
school and then in college. But Mr. Devlin
had the opportunity to earn berths in five
different Olympic Games as a ski jumper,
competing all over the world.
He won the United States Ski
Jumping Championship, he won the North
American Ski Jumping Championship. He also
set a record in Steamboat Springs, Colorado,
with a jump of 307 feet.
He was truly an extraordinary
athlete. He was inducted into the Ski Jumping
Hall of Fame, the Lake Placid Winter Sports
Museum Hall of Fame, and the Ski Hall of Fame.
Following his skiing career,
Mr. Devlin became a television commentator and
broadcast every World Ski Jumping Championship
and Winter Olympic Games since 1960. So all
of us who watched these Olympic athletics on
television have heard Art Devlin's voice.
In 1962, he began working for the
ABC-TV "Wide World of Sports," where he
1990
continued to be a broadcaster for 21 years.
Another one of his accomplishments
was to begin a business in Lake Placid. He
was the owner of the Arthur D. Devlin's
Olympic Motor Inn, which many of you have seen
as you pass into Lake Placid. It was one of
the two original motels in Lake Placid.
Mr. Devlin was instrumental in
bringing the World Olympics back to Lake
Placid in 1980, serving in many, many
capacities and traveling the world convincing
people that we should have an Olympics back in
Lake Placid.
He was also a very active citizen,
active in the community that he loved with
every bone in his body, and a community that
truly loved him. He is survived by his wife
and three children and a granddaughter.
And today we mourn the passing of
Arthur D. Devlin, but we also celebrate his
life and give thanks for his many
contributions and the fact that we had his
presence in New York State.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: All those in
1991
favor of the resolution please signify by
saying aye.
(Response of "Aye.")
THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
(No response.)
THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
adopted.
Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
of the calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
97, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2611, an
act to authorize payment to the Riverhead
Central School District.
THE PRESIDENT: There is a local
fiscal impact note at the desk.
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
1992
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
496, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1967, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to exempting former prisoners of war.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 60th day.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
569, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 6409,
an act to amend the General Business Law, in
relation to fingerprinting.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect 180 days.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
1993
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
600, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 6579, an
act to amend the General Municipal Law and the
Retirement and Social Security Law, in
relation to increasing certain special
accidental death benefits.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect July 1.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Golden,
to explain your vote.
SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Madam
President.
I rise to explain my vote on this
bill to increase certain special accidental
death benefits for surviving spouses and
children of certain police officers and fire
officials.
Today I'm blessed to have a school
here, the Resurrection, from Gerritsen Beach
in Marine Park, sitting up in the audience.
1994
And they're here, and families of police
officers and firemen that were injured and
wounded in the line of duty, and are looking
to see how we pass these bills -- and
specifically this bill, because it pertained
close to home on a police officer that lived
in the community.
So I'm happy that this bill has
been brought to the floor and that it has an
opportunity to be passed so that the spouses
and the widows have an opportunity to increase
their income, and that the kids from my
community also get an opportunity to see how
we do help kids in our schools and how we help
the people that live in our communities, those
police officers and firemen.
And we also have the retired school
supervisors and administrators, the RSSA, also
here in the audience, recognizing that this
bill is an important bill for the City of
New York and for the firemen and police
officers. And they too are indebted to us
that we get this bill passed.
Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
1995
will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
695, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1467, an
act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
Law and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
relation to the imposition of a driver's
license suspension.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
700, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 4869A, an
act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
1996
relation to driving while intoxicated.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 45. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
707, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5836A,
an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
the training of persons for the repair of slot
machines.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
1. Senator Padavan recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
1997
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
711, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6813, an
act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in
relation to disqualifying certain surviving
parents.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of July.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
719, by Senator Mendez, Senate Print --
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for
the day.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside for the day.
1998
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
723, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 950, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
endangering the welfare of a child.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
725, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1678, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
assaults committed in the presence of certain
children.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
1999
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays,
2. Senators Hassell-Thompson and Montgomery
recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
727, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1923A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
establishing a presumption relating.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the
negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
732, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3705A, an
act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
2000
prohibiting stalking.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
737, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5707A,
an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to
disseminating indecent material.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This
act shall take effect on the first of
November.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
2001
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
740, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
6651, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law
and Rules, in relation to not allowing
reference.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
DeFrancisco.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'd like to
explain my vote.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
to explain your vote, Senator.
SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This is
simply a chapter amendment to a bill that was
signed by the Governor on the condition that
this would be corrected this year. And it's a
good thing to do this.
It's also a good thing to recognize
a young man by the name of Joshua Treadway,
who is up in the gallery with the Wetzel Road
Elementary School. He was selected number
one, he was selected as the individual out of
1600 applicants with a poster representing
Arbor Day.
And he's standing up over there,
and I just want to recognize him because good
2002
things do happen, and we've got good people in
my district, and many of them are up there
today. So thank you.
(Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed. And Senator DeFrancisco will be
recorded as voting in the affirmative.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
756, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5926,
an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation
to designating a portion of the state highway
system.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
2003
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
757, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 6187, an
act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to
designating a portion of the state highway
system.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Libous,
to explain his vote.
SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam
President.
This legislation honors former
Assemblyman Richard Miller, who passed away in
December. And many of you knew the
Assemblyman, many of you served with him in
the Assembly.
And this would prove to be a
memorial for him by designating a part of
Route 201 in Johnson City, which he would be
able to see -- his family could see from their
2004
home, which would go to Vestal and would carry
through Johnson City and Vestal, the district
that he served in the Assembly for a number of
years.
And Dick was truly a remarkable
individual who always had a smile on his face,
extremely patriotic member of the Assembly,
and cared very much about his constituents.
And I think this would be a fitting memorial
in his honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Libous,
you will be so recorded as voting in the
affirmative.
The Secretary will call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
781, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print --
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2005
787, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 3584A,
an act to amend the Correction Law, in
relation to making the subdirectory of
sexually violent predators free of charge.
THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
812, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7181, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
homeowners insurance.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
aside.
THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
aside.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
Senator Saland.
2006
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam
President.
Madam President, I would like to
star Calendar 291, my bill, Senate 3430.
THE PRESIDENT: So ordered,
Senator.
SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam
President.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Could we please
go to the controversial reading of the
calendar.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
will read.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
781, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 439, an
act to amend the Correction Law, in relation
to requiring.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nozzolio,
an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, could you please tell me who asked
2007
for the explanation.
THE PRESIDENT: There were a
couple of voices. Senator Schneiderman, I
believe, was one; Senator Montgomery the
other.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
Madam President.
Madam President and my colleagues,
this measure amends the Correction Law
relative to making inmates -- requiring
inmates to make medical copayments. That
anyone who travels through the halls of the
Legislative Office Building can hear people
discuss how those taxpaying citizens who are
receiving insurance, those who are on
Medicaid -- the copayment is an issue that is
with us each and every day.
The purpose of this measure is to
require inmates in our state correctional
facilities to make a $7 copayment for medical
treatment. This copay is far less than the
copayment that others would have to make if
they were not in prison yet still insured.
Emergency care would not be denied
under this legislation. And this makes
2008
inmates partially responsible for their health
care expenses. Even though it does that, it
does not deny inmates medical treatment for
lack of ability to pay.
This requirement is currently used
by the Federal Bureau of Prisons and other
states, such as California, Connecticut, Ohio,
Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, where there is
no discernible difference between the health
care in those states for prison inmates and
the health care in our state.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
If the sponsor would yield for a few
questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nozzolio,
will you yield for a question?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy
to yield for Senator Schneiderman.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed,
Senator Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
Through you, Madam President, I
wonder if the sponsor is familiar with the
2009
fact that a substantial portion of the
increases in health care spending in New York
State's prisons are actually coming from the
Family Benefit Fund.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, I am not familiar with that.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
you, Madam President, the Family Benefit Fund
was created to help the families of inmates
maintain ties with loved ones behind bars. In
fact, according to the state-issued magazine
DOCS Today, October 1998 issue, about
25 percent of the increases in health care
costs that are going forward on an annual
basis, being added on an annual basis to
provide health care for prisoners in New York
State, is coming from this fund that is
supposed to provide inmates and their families
with the ability to maintain contact, with a
view ultimately to reentry into the community.
So my question for the sponsor is
while we're looking at this question of health
care costs, is it a proper use of a fund that
is explicitly designed to help families of
inmates maintain ties, to use that to pay for
2010
inmate health care?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, I would ask Senator Schneiderman if
he believes that the variety of medical
services provided our prison inmates in the
state correctional facilities are appropriate
costs.
Some of my working poor in my
district, many of my working poor that I
represent do not have anywhere near the same
type of health care coverage that is provided
by our prison inmates, not to mention some of
the more questionable health care costs.
My constituents ask me time and
time again why are hormone replacement
therapies allowed in prison, why are sex
change operations paid for by the taxpayers in
prison. Many health, quote, unquote, related
costs that the taxpayers must fund because of
one court decision or another, because of one
administrative decision or another, my
citizens ask me is that an appropriate cost of
medical services that the taxpayers are
bearing. Most of them, if not all of them,
say no, it is not an appropriate use.
2011
Senator Schneiderman asked me,
Madam President, if I believe the prison fund,
the family fund is an appropriate source of
revenue for the health-care-related costs of
inmates. I can only answer Senator
Schneiderman's question by saying I'm not sure
what services are provided, I'm not sure to
what extent those services are provided by
this fund.
I can only say that we have the
most extensive health care in our prisons
today of any state in the union and that if
the state of California, New Jersey, four or
five others that I had previously mentioned --
Connecticut, Ohio, Pennsylvania -- if all of
those states can require copayments, not to
mention the federal prison system, why should
New York not be in that category.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
new Madam President. Through you, if the
sponsor would continue to yield.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio?
2012
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy
to yield, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: He
continues to yield. Thank you.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Who is it
that determines what medical procedures are
available to inmates in the New York State
prison system?
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
President, I don't know who determines
specifically. I know that each facility,
though, does have a doctor present, and I
would assume that the doctor determines what
type of medical procedures are necessary.
In terms of programs, in terms of
equipment, in terms of availability, I do not
know who makes those decisions.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President. I'd like to thank the
sponsor for his answers.
On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman, on the bill.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: There is
not a system in effect today, as people might
2013
gather from the discussion we just had,
whereby there is a group of doctors running
amuck providing inappropriate medical
services. New York State has regulations
designating what medical procedures are
available, providing guidelines.
And the point of health care in a
prison facility is that while we are punishing
people, we put an end to torture some decades
ago in the United States and most other
countries. And it is pretty well accepted, I
think, everywhere in the industrial world that
if you don't provide health care to people
while you're imprisoning them, you're
essentially reinstituting the practice of
torture.
The fact of the matter is the
current proposal is punitive in a way that I
believe -- and I hope, you know, someday even
to convince the sponsor of this -- is really
punitive in a way that is counterproductive.
If you're working in a prison
system, if you're working in a correctional
system, there are two things you want to
accomplish. One is you want to punish people.
2014
The other is you have to recognize the fact
that these people are all coming back into our
communities at some point.
There are very few people who are
never coming back. Some people pass away in
prison; some people have extremely long
sentences. But virtually everyone in the New
York State prison system is going to be faced
with reentry at some point down the road.
And the point of the Family Benefit
Fund and the point of providing some minimum
health services is that these people should
not be cut off from society. These people
should not be put into a situation where they
have to choose between calling their loved
ones and going to see a doctor.
The medical copays are not the only
expenses of inmates. They have to pay for
other necessities for prison life. They don't
have any choice of who their health care
provider is. If an inmate, under this
proposal, needs to have a disk removed from
their back, they would pay the $7 copay. If
the inmate needs to get an aspirin under this
proposal, the inmate would pay a $7 copay.
2015
So I think that what we're talking
about here is something that really is not
rationally related to the provision of medical
services and the payment for the provision of
medical services. It is simply a punitive
measure to put inmates in a very, very
difficult position.
Unfortunately, I think most people
would choose health care and they may choose
not to maintain contact with people in the
community. They may choose not to spend money
on necessities for educational programs, which
inmates are required to do in many programs in
New York State's prisons.
So I would urge the sponsor that
while I think pretty much everyone here agrees
that there is -- you know, that punishment is
one of the purposes of incarceration, that we
can never lose sight of the fact that these
people are coming back into our communities.
There are proposals for reentry
programs that we should be looking at. I know
Senator Montgomery has spoken often about
this. And as a part of the proposal for
reforming our nonviolent felony laws, Senator
2016
Paterson included a strong reentry component.
But it undercuts all our efforts to
deal with reentry issues if we're going to
discourage people from getting needed medical
care while they're in prison. The point of
this is to keep people as healthy as we can,
to give them as much of a chance as we can so
that they can reenter their communities
successfully, so they break out of the cycle
of recidivism.
And based on my own personal
experience, my own personal observation, at
any given point in time there is a substantial
portion of the population in any prison that
is ready to make a break out of the cycle.
And if we do not provide them with the means
to make that break, we're costing ourselves
more money, we're costing society more in the
way of pain because they're going to just get
dropped right back into that cycle of
recidivism, commit more crimes.
Let's be reasonable and rational
about this. Punishment, yes. Not torture,
not incapacitation, not something that
discourages people from maintaining contacts
2017
in the community.
I'm going to vote no and I urge
everyone to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Stavisky.
SENATOR STAVISKY: On the bill,
Madam President.
My objection is not with the
concept but with the bill itself. Health care
in our prisons is a very expensive item. And
I frankly don't think there are very many
sex-change operations going on in the prison
system.
However, having said that, I
remember the debate two years ago where I
asked Senator Nozzolio about the copayments.
Because if somebody had a headache and wanted
an aspirin, it would cost them $7, and I
thought that was a little unfair.
The money that's raised from the
copayments does not go to benefit the prison
system or the individual prison itself. It
doesn't go into a fund set aside in that
particular facility to help promote good
health among the inmates. Instead, I
2018
understand that it goes -- I'm sorry, it goes
into the general fund of the prison, not to
that prison itself to pay for that inmate's
medical care.
It seems to me that there are many
inmates with a multitude of problems, whether
it be AIDS or drug problems or whatever. And
to have a $7 copayment each time they visit
is, I think, a burden upon the inmate. And
the inmate as a result will be less likely to
seek the health care that's available in the
prison system.
And lastly, when that prisoner is
released, it seems to me that we want them
released in good health so that they don't
infect the general population when they're
out.
So I suggest that while Senator
Nozzolio's objectives I understand, and I
don't disagree, I disagree with this
particular bill because I just don't think it
resolves the issue of promoting better health
among the prison population.
And for that reason, Madam
President, I will vote no.
2019
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Onorato.
SENATOR ONORATO: Just quickly on
the bill, Madam President. We've had this
bill before us for many, many years.
And as everybody in this chamber
knows, I'm as strict a law and order man as
anybody in this chamber, and I'll match
records with them.
But this bill is very, very harmful
to the individual. When you tell me that a
prisoner making probably a dollar a day, or
$2 -- if he's making that much -- is going to
have to go down to the infirmary and make a
$7 copay, it's just not fair at all.
Now, if you want to punish the
goldbrickers that you have in prisons, we had
the same situation when I was in the Army. I
was in the Medical Corps in the Army, in the
118th Medical Battalion. And we had people
reporting on sick call. Those that reported
too often and were not sick were given the
just medication that they needed -- mostly KP
or guard duty.
So perhaps we could apply the same
2020
rationale to the prison system. If you're
trying to weed out the people who are coming
in, drying up the system, you can weed them
out based upon the true facts of what they're
coming in for. Are they coming in to simply
avoid duty of some sort? You punish them.
But don't tell me you want to charge an
individual who's coming in for a headache or a
sprained arm that may require three or four
visits and you're going to have the rest of
his month or two months' allotment frozen so
that he can't buy soap, he can't buy candy or
anything else that he would like to use.
The intent is there, but this is
not the way to do it. Senator, amend your
bill to address the true problem with the
goldbrickers.
I'm going to vote no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Liz Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I have
2021
debated Senator Nozzolio on this bill in the
past, and my colleagues have raised many of
the issues that I share in my objections to
the bill.
But I want to go back to a comment
that was made in the argument for the bill,
that it's very expensive, that we're spending
$2,000 per year per inmate. And in fact, that
Senator Nozzolio has constituents who can't
afford health insurance, as we all have
constituents in the state of New York who
can't afford health insurance.
And I would argue that we should
actually evaluate the New York State prison
spending on health insurance as perhaps one of
the most cost-effective programs we may be
running in New York State. And if we could
figure out how to cover health insurance for
every New Yorker for just $2,000 a year, we
could guarantee, through a universal
single-payer system, the kinds of health
insurance we need in the state for every
New Yorker.
And in fact, the fact that there's
only $2,000 spent per year -- which is
2022
dramatically less than the average for health
insurance in any other program for any other
population in the state of New York, given the
fact that we know that the population in our
prisons is technically sicker than the general
population out in the public -- higher rates
of HIV infection, of hepatitis C, of
tuberculosis, of mental illness, of aging
after having histories of drug use in their
lives -- the fact that we are spending only
about $160 a month per inmate in health care
leads me to believe that rather than the
problem you've described of abuse, of seeking
medical treatment when none is needed, that
probably what we would find -- and I believe
there are reports that show it -- is that we
have underutilization of the kinds of health
care services most preeminently needed in our
prisons.
I understand that less than
10 percent of the people in our prisons who
are diagnosed with HIV or hepatitis C are
actually getting treatment for those
illnesses. And to reflect back on something
one of my colleagues said, these are people
2023
coming back into our communities with
infectious diseases.
We should be evaluating in the
State of New York what kind of health care we
are providing the prisoners of our state. It
is not an exorbitant cost in relationship to
the cost of incarceration. It is not an
exorbitant cost in relationship to the overall
average cost for health benefits to each
individual New Yorker. It is in the best
interests of the State of New York and in the
public's health to make sure that people in
our prison population get access to adequate
health care.
And certainly if one is going to
make the argument for a copayment, as you
have, one should ask the cost of that
copayment in relationship to the wages earned.
If they're making 50 cents an hour in prison
as opposed to $15 an hour in outside labor,
one should ask the question whether that
copayment might not be prorated down to
7 cents rather than $7 for comparative
purposes.
But again, in agreement with my
2024
colleagues, I don't think this bill serves the
public interest and in fact highlights the
dangers we would face if we decreased even
further the health care that we're providing
to prisoners and the risks to our broader
communities and the people who are working in
our prisons if we were to pass legislation
that would increase the rate of infectious and
contagious diseases in our prison population.
I'll be voting no. Thank you,
Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Montgomery.
SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam
President. In addition to the issues raised
by my colleagues, which I agree with, I just
wanted to respond to a sentence or part of a
sentence in Senator Nozzolio's memo.
And it says that "The public
responds favorably toward changes when
criminals are responsible for part of their
cost of incarceration."
And I would just like to, for the
record, point out to Senator Nozzolio and the
public that the people who are incarcerated in
2025
our state make a tremendous contribution to
communities throughout the state. And I just
wanted to point out a few of them.
One, I know that they help to
maintain the highways, the Thruway system. I
see them when I drive upstate, above Albany.
And I'm aware that they also manufacture all
of the highway signs, the street signs. All
of the signage in our state is produced in the
prison system.
I see them when I go to the
functions in the evening, I see that they
maintain the floors in this Capitol. I see
that they maintain the vehicles of the
correctional system.
I know that they help upstate
communities in natural disasters. In forest
fires, when there are ice storms, they go out
as crews to help clear the area and to help
communities recover from those disasters.
I know that they help communities
upstate repair the furniture and maintain some
of the buildings, the local buildings, the
libraries and other community facilities.
I know that all of the furniture in
2026
our state, every agency, every office in this
building, all of the desks, all of the
cabinets, everything that we use is made in
the prisons.
I know that the training for guide
dogs are done by inmates in facilities. I
know that eyeglasses are made for Medicaid
patients in the facilities. I know that the
food that is prepared for the inmates in the
system throughout the system is prepared by
themselves.
And on and on and on. That's a
very short list.
So for Senator Nozzolio to imply
that they don't pay I think is a little
disingenuous, especially -- and I think it's
very important that we tell the public the
truth. And the truth is that corrections is
in fact usurping a large percent of the
manufacturing industry in our state. And we
should be talking about that.
So, Senator Nozzolio, not only do I
think it's certainly wrong to charge inmates
$7, a $7 copay, I think we should be talking
about what are we going to do about the fact
2027
that inmates who work in prison, once they
serve their time and come back to their
communities, not only don't we want them to
come back to spread disease throughout the
communities, but we also would like for them
to be able to come back to jobs for which they
are prepared to do while they are
incarcerated, so that they can become
productive citizens once again.
So, Madam President, I'll be voting
no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Any
other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
Read the last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
act shall take effect on the 120th day.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Bonacic, to explain his vote.
SENATOR BONACIC: To explain my
vote.
I have eight correctional
facilities in my Senate district, state, plus
2028
one federal. And when I did the analysis of
what it costs the taxpayer, it costs about
$100,000, one-shot expense for a cell. And
for the maintenance of a prisoner, for all his
maintenance, it runs about $25,000 a year.
That's what the taxpayer pays to incarcerate
someone who has committed a crime against
society.
Now, the people in jail are there
for a reason. They did some bad things. And
whether it's by a plea or by a verdict of a
judge or a jury, they were found to commit a
crime against society and they're paying it by
being incarcerated.
But when you -- when you -- when I
listen to the arguments over there that paying
$7, which is about half of what the private
citizen pays, is a continuation of a form of
torture, a form of cruel and unusual
punishment, I think we're exaggerating and
we're losing our focus and we have misplaced
values.
We are saying that it's reasonable
and modest to make a contribution to your
copay. The people that work in prisons do so
2029
because they get extra money and they don't
have to do the normal routine. They like work
detail. That's a benefit to them, believe it
or not, in the jails.
So I, for one, will be voting in
the affirmative. And if we had this copay,
maybe we could give more money for TAP, maybe
we could give more money to affordable health
care to the people, the private citizens who
did not commit crime against the society.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Nozzolio, to explain his vote.
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
Madam President. I rise to explain my vote.
And I wish to thank Senator Bonacic and all
those on both sides of the aisle who
participate in this debate.
I wish to address just two issues.
The first, I believe, was the question Senator
Stavisky raised about monies collected under
this provision. I point out to page 2, lines
9 and 10 of the legislation, which indicate
that all monies collected pursuant to this law
will be made available for the operation of
2030
the particular correctional facility.
And as Senator Bonacic so well
indicated, that does relieve the cost of
running our prisons and in effect frees up
funds for extremely important other issues and
needs of the state.
The second issue was a continued
theme raised by my friends on the other side
of the aisle, which talked about inmate
health. I agree that we have serious health
care issues within our prisons. I also
question, though, how anyone could not support
mandatory testing of HIV, because right now we
do not have a testing process for HIV within
our prison system.
I very much would like to see
additional health care issues addressed,
particularly for inmates who are going to be
out into the general population. And yet
we've seen a consistent refusal to explore
additional health care needs by those who wish
to not adequately test those inmates behind
bars.
Madam President, thank you very
much for the opportunity to explain my vote.
2031
I am supporting this measure, and I urge my
colleagues to do likewise.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Schneiderman, to explain his vote.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
Madam President.
Clearly there are serious problems
in our correctional system. I really just
want to urge that in light of particularly
Senator Bonacic's comments, we focus, if we're
concerned about money and prisons and waste of
money that we could better use elsewhere, on
the fact that the New York State Senate is the
obstacle right now to reforming the sentencing
laws which are keeping thousands of first-time
nonviolent offenders in prison for extended
periods of time.
And I know how expensive it is.
You know, the old expression is it's much
cheaper to send prisoners to Ivy League
colleges than it is to keep them incarcerated.
Let's think about a little
community investment. Let's think about a
little investment at the front end of the
system to prevent us from having to spend the
2032
money on cells down the road.
But at the very least, this session
before we adjourn, let's try and deal with the
fact that this house stands in the way of
getting thousands of people who do not need to
be occupying those expensive cells in prison.
Let's reform our sentencing laws before we
adjourn this year.
Thank you, Madam President. I vote
no.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Announce
the results.
THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
the negative on Calendar Number 781 are
Senators Andrews, Breslin, Brown, Dilán,
Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Lachman,
Marchi, Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,
Parker, Paterson, Sabini, Schneiderman, A.
Smith, M. Smith, and Stavisky. Ayes, 41.
Nays, 19.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
812, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7181, an
act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to
2033
homeowners insurance.
SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
Explanation.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Seward, an explanation has been requested.
SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, Madam
President.
This bill deals with NYPIUA, which
is the New York Property Insurance
Underwriting Association. NYPIUA is the
insurer of last resort for property insurance.
It affords coverage to commercial and
residential policyholders who are unable to
obtain their insurance in the voluntary
market.
NYPIUA is due to expire on
April 30th. This legislation would extend
NYPIUA until June 30th of this year. It's a
two-month extension. And this short-term
extender will give us a better opportunity to
further evaluate the proper term for the next
extension of NYPIUA.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Breslin.
SENATOR BRESLIN: On the bill,
2034
Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Breslin, on the bill.
SENATOR BRESLIN: I agree with
the assessment of my colleague, Senator
Seward, that NYPIUA is the insurance of last
resort. And it's important it not be taken
lightly.
It was initiated in 1968, when
there were riots going on in this state and
across this country, and the federal
government said if the states passed a law,
they would provide some reinsurance for riots,
for rioting.
And people took advantage of that
because they couldn't get insurance in the
voluntary market. And that's grown over the
years. It's grown to now where over 50,000
residences are covered by NYPIUA, over 7,000
businesses are covered.
But we play games with it in this
Legislature. It's been in existence since
1968. The Assembly has passed a permanent
NYPIUA law six times. The Governor, in 1998,
gave to this Legislature a bill that would
2035
make it permanent. The Insurance Department
would like this bill to be permanent. Yet as
recently as last April, we attempted to tie
this with another piece of legislation, flex
rating, playing games with those 50,000 people
who insure, those 7,000 businesses. And we
are again doing the same thing.
I will vote for this bill, because
it does in fact extend NYPIUA. But NYPIUA,
even during last year, before it passed, there
was a gap when people weren't covered. So
every day about 250 people who take advantage
of NYPIUA, if there's that gap, their policies
will lapse. They'll lapse because the New
York State Legislature has seen fit to play
games with NYPIUA.
The importance, as I said at the
beginning, cannot be understated. We must
recognize that this is a critically important
piece of insurance legislation affecting the
lives, disproportionately, of poor people.
There's over 30,000 in New York City alone who
take advantage of this insurance. There's
over 14,000 in Long Island who take advantage
of this insurance. This law should be
2036
permanent.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
Madam President. On the bill.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Krueger, on the bill.
SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I share
Senator Breslin's analysis of the situation,
and his frustration. We passed this bill last
year on June 19th, the last day of session, in
an eleventh-hour move, not unlike putting off
rent regulation decisions until the last
minute, a switch on lobbying reform until the
last minute.
This was offered last year as a
take-it-or-leave-it deal as the Senate left,
forcing the Assembly to act on additions to
the bill that did not have to do with the
NYPIUA policies.
I believe that it is the worst
model of government in those situations, and
this where we know, we all agree this is an
important program, we know we are putting
2037
individuals and businesses at risk of losing
their insurance coverage, we know that we're
potentially forcing a lapse of coverage
involving thousands of cancellation notices
and the inability to start up new policies,
and we know that we want this law to continue
and it should be made permanent. Other than
Alabama and New York, we are the only states
that haven't made this law permanent.
And so my frustration is the same
as Senator Breslin's, but I thought it was
important to stand up and say this is not how
we ought to be operating in both houses of the
Legislature. The Senate should pass a
permanent bill and at minimum a multiple-year
bill at this late in the session, rather than
doing exactly -- and I have to assume, Senator
Seward -- it's exactly what we did last year,
putting this off with a two-month extender, so
that at the last moments of the last day of
session there will be some deal offered
unrelated to this important insurance coverage
continuing, where it's a take-it-or-leave-it
trade-off deal with the other house.
It is not in the best interests of
2038
the people of New York State. The Governor
has called for this bill, the insurance
industry has called for this bill, tens of
thousands of people are dependent on this
insurance. And we should know better and act
better than what we're doing today.
Having said that, I feel I cannot
not vote for this bill, because we have to
make sure that it doesn't go -- doesn't sunset
on April 30th. But I suppose shame on us will
be my closing.
Thank you, Madam President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Read the
last section.
THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
act shall take effect immediately.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Call the
roll.
(The Secretary called the roll.)
THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: The bill
is passed.
Senator Connor.
SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Madam
President. Madam President, may I have
2039
unanimous consent to be recorded in the
negative on Calendar Number 781.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection.
Senator Skelos, that completes the
controversial reading of the calendar.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There is
no housekeeping at the desk.
SENATOR ANDREWS: Madam
President.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Andrews.
SENATOR ANDREWS: Madam
President, I'd like to have unanimous consent
to be recorded in the negative on Calendar
725.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection.
Senator Kuhl.
SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam
President. I'd like unanimous consent to make
a statement.
I would just like to remind the
2040
members that they have been invited by myself
and Assemblyman Magee to indulge in the
representative products coming from the
New York wine industry and also the food
industry. There's an event being held in
Room 711A at 5:15; it goes through 7:30.
And I'd just kind of like to remind
the members that along with the delicious
wines that are manufactured from all parts of
the state, there will be a menu. And just to
read some of those items that are on the menu,
it's smoked salmon and smoked trout from the
Catskills, St. Lawrence River caviar,
deep-fried monkfish with black hazelnuts,
buffalo hunter-style, chicken cacciatore,
natural New York Angus beef, herb-encrusted
lamb, penne rigata, Sorrento ricotta
cheesecake, apple tarts and pumpkin tartlets,
just to mention a few of the delicacies which
are meant to showcase New York products.
You and all your staffs are
invited. We welcome you.
(Applause.)
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Thank
you, Senator Kuhl. I suspect we're all very
2041
hungry.
Senator Diaz.
SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam
President. I would like to ask unanimous
consent to vote in the negative on Calendar
Number 781.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Without
objection.
SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: Senator
Skelos.
SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
is there any housekeeping at the desk?
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: There is
no housekeeping at the desk.
SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
further business to come before the Senate, I
move we stand adjourned until Wednesday,
April 28th, at 11 a.m.
ACTING PRESIDENT McGEE: On
motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
Wednesday, April 28th, at 11:00 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 4:06 p.m., the
Senate adjourned.)