Regular Session - June 17, 2004

    

 
                                                        4050



                           NEW YORK STATE SENATE





                          THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD









                             ALBANY, NEW YORK

                               June 17, 2004

                                11:16 a.m.





                              REGULAR SESSION







            LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

            STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary















                                                        4051



                           P R O C E E D I N G S

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Senate will come to order.

                            I ask that everyone present please

                 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

                 Allegiance.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

                 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:    In

                 the absence of clergy, would you please bow

                 your heads for a moment of silence.

                            (Whereupon, the assemblage

                 respected a moment of silence.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Reading of the Journal.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

                 Wednesday, June 16, the Senate met pursuant to

                 adjournment.  The Journal of Tuesday, June 15,

                 was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

                 adjourned.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Without objection, the Journal stands approved

                 as read.

                            Presentation of petitions.

                            Messages from the Assembly.



                                                        4052



                            Messages from the Governor.

                            Reports of standing committees.

                            Reports of select committees.

                            Communications and reports from

                 state officers.

                            Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Amendments are offered to the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:

                            Senator Hoffmann, page 26, Calendar

                 Number 879, Senate Print 7150;

                            Senator Farley, page 38, Calendar

                 Number 1106, Senate Print 6796;

                            Senator Hannon, page 41, Calendar

                 1193, Senate Print 4148;

                            Senator Larkin, page 45, Calendar

                 Number 1281, Senate Print 5424A;

                            Senator Leibell, page 4, Calendar

                 Number 51, Senate Print 4330A;

                            Senator Leibell, page 42, Calendar

                 Number 1208, Senate Print 2359;

                            And last but not least, Senator

                 Leibell again, pretty active, page 26,



                                                        4053



                 Calendar Number 839, Senate Print 7077.

                            Mr. President, I now move that

                 these bills retain their place on the order of

                 third reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received, and the bills

                 will retain their place on third reading.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Meier.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            On behalf of Senator Bruno, I wish

                 to call up his bill, Senate Print Number 6206,

                 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at

                 the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 326, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6206, an

                 act to amend the Tax Law.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 now wish to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.



                                                        4054



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            SENATOR MEIER:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of yourself, also known as Senator

                 DeFrancisco, I wish to call up your bill,

                 Print Number 6909, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Thank you very much.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 838, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

                 6909, an act to amend the Public Authorities

                 Law.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.



                                                        4055



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 40.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Spano, I wish to call up his

                 bill, Print Number 6760, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 709, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6760, an

                 act to amend Chapter 511 of the Laws of 1995.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4056



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Mendez, I wish to call up

                 her bill, Print Number 6814, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 972, by Senator Mendez, Senate Print 6814, an

                 act to amend the Labor Law.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Are there any



                                                        4057



                 substitutions at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Yes, there are.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    We ask that they

                 be read.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 7,

                 Senator Larkin moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 9436B

                 and substitute it for the identical Senate

                 Bill Number 5864A, Third Reading Calendar 175.

                            On page 14, Senator Leibell moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 11167 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1332A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 427.

                            On page 24, Senator Libous moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10237 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4586,

                 Third Reading Calendar 800.

                            On page 31, Senator Spano moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10004 and substitute it



                                                        4058



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6361,

                 Third Reading Calendar 998.

                            On page 34, Senator Marcellino

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 9890C and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 6268C, Third Reading Calendar 1042.

                            On page 39, Senator Breslin moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8727A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5356A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1157.

                            On page 45, Senator Robach moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 990C and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4127B,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1277.

                            On page 45, Senator Golden moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 7188A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4180A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1278.

                            On page 50, Senator Libous moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8838A and substitute it



                                                        4059



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6830A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1378.

                            And on page 51, Senator Leibell

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 10015A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 7114, Third Reading Calendar 1453.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Can we have the

                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read the noncontroversial

                 calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 173, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8586A, an act to amend

                 the Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation

                 to prohibiting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4060



                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 175, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Magee, Assembly Print Number

                 9436B, an act to amend the Agriculture and

                 Markets Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 267, by Senator Skelos --

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Lay it aside

                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4061



                 Lay the bill aside temporarily.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 415, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6208, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 determining.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 433, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2577A --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Lay the bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 443, by Member of the Assembly Gromack,

                 Assembly Print Number 9661, an act to amend

                 the Transportation Law, in relation to



                                                        4062



                 exempting drivers.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 764, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6265A,

                 an act in relation to authorizing the approval

                 of certain transportation contracts.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4063



                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 910, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,

                 Assembly Print Number 9798, an act to amend

                 the Retirement and Social Security Law and the

                 Administrative Code of the City of New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 There is a home-rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 940, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2063B,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and

                 others, in relation to a separate assessment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.



                                                        4064



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 43.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Rath recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 957, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 6540, an

                 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

                 designating February 15th as Susan B. Anthony

                 Day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Krueger, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 to explain my vote.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Please do so.



                                                        4065



                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            I'm so proud to be in the Senate

                 the day that we are honoring and creating a

                 day of commemoration for Susan B. Anthony.

                 She fought the fight for women's suffrage and

                 women's right to vote starting in the 1800s.

                 Women finally got the right to vote in

                 New York State in 1917, several years before

                 the federal amendment to the Constitution.

                            She was an activist, a radical in

                 her time.  She was the proprietor of a

                 newspaper called "The Revolution."

                            She ended up being sued in court

                 for attempting to vote in New York State in

                 1872 and being found guilty of illegally

                 voting because she actually successfully went

                 and voted.  She pled not guilty to the

                 charges.  She was dragged through the courts

                 and found guilty.  She was fined $100, which

                 in the 1800s was an enormous amount of money,

                 and she refused to pay.

                            Her efforts on behalf of women

                 throughout this country -- and men throughout

                 this country, because we all are served better



                                                        4066



                 by having a country where everyone has equal

                 rights to vote -- should never be forgotten,

                 certainly not in her home state of New York.

                            So while one might argue why didn't

                 we do this earlier, I'm very glad and I thank

                 Senator Alesi for moving through a bill to

                 ensure that future generations in New York

                 State will never forget the contributions that

                 Susan B. Anthony has made to all of us and to

                 democracy in New York.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Alesi, to explain his vote.

                            SENATOR ALESI:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            And I thank my colleague for her

                 comments extolling the virtues of our passing

                 this bill today.

                            And as someone who has lived and

                 grown up in Rochester, New York, I am

                 particularly proud that Susan B. Anthony spent

                 most of her time in residence there.  And as

                 has been pointed out on numerous occasions,

                 she is viewed by many in this nation, and in

                 fact worldwide, as the moving force behind the



                                                        4067



                 women's suffrage movement.

                            In fact, the 19th Amendment most

                 likely would not have been passed were it not

                 for the efforts of Susan B. Anthony.  That

                 amendment to the United States Constitution is

                 what gave women the right to vote.

                            But Susan B. Anthony was also

                 extremely active in efforts to end slavery,

                 and of course that was the 13th Amendment to

                 the Constitution of the United States.

                            Susan B. Anthony -- again, who

                 spent most of her time in Rochester, lived

                 there, and for whom the Susan B. Anthony House

                 has been established and is a museum now in

                 our community -- was also a publisher, with

                 Elizabeth Cady Stanton, of a newspaper called

                 "The Revolution."  And that newspaper,

                 unpopular to some people, was very popular to

                 those people who were favoring labor rights,

                 civil rights, rights for women's property

                 ownership, and rights for women in fact to

                 have custody of their own children.

                            The University of Rochester, which

                 is a world-renowned educational center, did

                 not allow women into the university until



                                                        4068



                 1900, and that was only because of the efforts

                 of Susan B. Anthony and her willingness to put

                 her own financial security at stake to fund

                 women's entry into the University of

                 Rochester.

                            So I think it's fitting and proper,

                 and I know my colleagues from the Rochester

                 area join me, as well as all of my colleagues,

                 in recognizing the importance of Susan B.

                 Anthony's efforts on behalf of women's rights,

                 slavery abolition, labor rights, to recognize

                 her with this commemorative day.  And I invite

                 all of my colleagues to join us in passing

                 this bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 48.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            Senator Spano, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Mr. President,

                 there will be an immediate Majority conference

                 in the Majority Conference Room.  And we ask

                 that the Senate stand at ease.

                            Could you please recognize Senator



                                                        4069



                 Ada Smith.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            There will be an immediate

                 conference of the Minority in the Minority

                 Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:    An

                 immediate meeting of the Majority in the

                 Majority Conference Room, and an immediate

                 meeting of the Minority in the Minority

                 Conference Room.

                            The Senate shall stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 11:35 a.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 12:37 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to motions and resolutions,

                 I believe there are several resolutions on the

                 floor.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4070



                 Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Wright.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  I wish to call up Calendar Number

                 858, Assembly Print Number 6506.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 858, by Member of the Assembly Grannis,

                 Assembly Print Number 6506, an act to amend

                 the Tax Law.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

                 bill was substituted for Senator Flanagan's

                 bill, Print Number 4216, on June 7th.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move that

                 Assembly Bill Number 6506 be recommitted to

                 the Committee on Rules and that Senator

                 Flanagan's bill be restored to the order of

                 Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:    So



                                                        4071



                 ordered.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    And now, Mr.

                 President, I now offer the following

                 amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President,

                 again on behalf of Senator Flanagan, I wish to

                 call up Calendar Number 1233, Assembly Print

                 Number 2645A.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1233, by Member of the Assembly McLaughlin,

                 Assembly Print Number 2645A, an act to amend

                 the Executive Law and others.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

                 bill was substituted for Senate Print Number

                 7066 on May 20th.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    I now move that



                                                        4072



                 Assembly Bill Number 2645A be recommitted to

                 the Committee on Rules and the Senate bill be

                 restored to the order of Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of Senator Hoffmann, I wish to call

                 up Print Number 6349, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 935, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 6349,

                 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

                 Law.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll on reconsideration.



                                                        4073



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received.

                            SENATOR WRIGHT:    Mr. President,

                 amendments are offered to the following Third

                 Reading Calendar bills:

                            Senator Fuschillo, page number 25,

                 Calendar Number 832, Senate Print Number

                 6960A;

                            Senator Maziarz, page 26, Calendar

                 Number 869, Senate Print Number 6596;

                            Senator Spano, page number 27,

                 Calendar Number 907, Senate Print 6846;

                            Senator Spano, page 33, Calendar

                 Number 1025, Senate Print Number 5243C;

                            Senator Skelos, page 41, Calendar

                 1190, Senate Print 6610A;

                            Senator Marcellino, page 51,

                 Calendar 1441, Senate Print 4523A.

                            Mr. President, I now move that

                 these bills retain their place on the order of

                 third reading.  Thank you.



                                                        4074



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The amendments are received, and the bills

                 will retain their place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Are there any

                 substitutions at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Yes, there is a substitution.  Or actually

                 two.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 9,

                 Senator Skelos moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8636C

                 and substitute it for the identical Senate

                 Bill Number 5156C, Third Reading Calendar 267.

                            And on page 38, Senator Saland

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 9814A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 5937A, Third Reading Calendar 1105.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,



                                                        4075



                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

                 Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 the Majority Conference Room.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    And if we could

                 return to the noncontroversial reading of the

                 calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read where we left off on

                 the noncontroversial calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 998, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly Print Number

                 10004, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 There is a home-rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4076



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 999, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6426, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 There is a home-rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, to explain my vote.

                            I'm delighted to vote in favor of

                 this parking permit bill, as I was a moment

                 ago for Senator Spano's bill and for parking

                 permit systems that have been approved by this

                 body in the past, including parts of

                 Rochester, the City of Rye, the Village of



                                                        4077



                 Pelham, the City of Auburn, the Village of

                 Tarrytown, the Village of Tuckahoe, the City

                 of Peekskill, and the Village of Cold Springs,

                 all that inure to the benefit of those local

                 citizens and enhance their quality of life to

                 be free of pollution from cars and, more

                 importantly, to be able to park in front of

                 their houses.

                            And I too have a bill dealing with

                 the City of Albany that I introduced, I

                 believe, in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000.  And it's

                 a bill that is in effect this year as well,

                 that's passed the Assembly.

                            And I hope that when that bill gets

                 to this floor that I can count on the members

                 of this body to allow the citizens of Albany

                 to enjoy the same benefits as many of those

                 locations I have just mentioned.

                            But I vote in the affirmative.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Announce the vote.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.



                                                        4078



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1002, by Member of the Assembly Galef,

                 Assembly Print Number 9705A, an act to amend

                 the Vehicle and Traffic Law and others.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1004, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 7164A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to production.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4079



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1021, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 7165A,

                 an act to authorize payment of building aid.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1039, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 6020A,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4080



                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1069, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 335B,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to increasing the minimum period.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1075, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 5114, an

                 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in

                 relation to including limited liability.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4081



                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1077, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6152A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to the installation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1105, substituted earlier today by Member of



                                                        4082



                 the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly Print Number

                 9814A, an act to amend the Limited Liability

                 Company Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1122, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4846, an

                 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules,

                 in relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.



                                                        4083



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Mr. President,

                 can we please go back to Calendar 267.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The Secretary will read Calendar Number 267.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 267, substituted earlier today by the Assembly

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number

                 8636C, an act to amend the Public Health Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1157, substituted earlier today by the

                 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print



                                                        4084



                 Number 8727A, an act authorizing the Coeymans

                 Hollow Volunteer Fire Corporation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1162, by Member of the Assembly Gunther --

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Lay it aside for

                 the day, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Lay the bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1169, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 7134B,

                 an act to authorize the assessor of the County

                 of Nassau.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                                                        4085



                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Bonacic recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1247, by Member of the Assembly Gantt,

                 Assembly Print Number 613, an act to amend the

                 Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to the

                 use.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1259, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5070A,



                                                        4086



                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the education of children.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 September.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1265, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,

                 Assembly Print Number 3995A, an act to amend

                 the Retirement and Social Security Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.



                                                        4087



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1269, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2821, an

                 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in

                 relation to the maximum age requirement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1274, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,

                 Assembly Print Number 4356, an act to amend

                 the Civil Service Law, in relation to

                 providing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.



                                                        4088



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1278, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Abbate, Assembly Print Number

                 7188A, an act to amend the Administrative Code

                 of the City of New York and the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1294, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 6904, an

                 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in

                 relation to the resolution of disputes.



                                                        4089



                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect one year after it shall

                 have become a law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1362, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7221, an

                 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in

                 relation to bonds and notes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 There is a home-rule message at the desk.

                            Please read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4090



                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1381, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 302D,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the practice of public accountancy.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1519, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1928A,

                 an act to --

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Lay it aside for

                 the day, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Lay the bill aside for the day.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1533, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 7350,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in



                                                        4091



                 relation to the establishment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 There is a home-rule message at the desk.

                            Please read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1542, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 7448,

                 an act to amend Chapter 256 of the Laws of

                 2003 amending the Election Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:



                                                        4092



                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1547, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 5953,

                 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation

                 to the qualifications.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1549, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print

                 6319A, an act to authorize the French Speaking

                 Baptist Church.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.



                                                        4093



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Bonacic recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1550, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 6531,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 exempting milk crates.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 Call the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO:

                 The bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1561, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 7438,

                 an act to amend the Private Housing Finance

                 Law, in relation to affordable home ownership.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.



                                                        4094



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1562, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 7450,

                 an act to amend Chapter 193 of the Laws of

                 2001, relating to the establishment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1596, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7195C,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to



                                                        4095



                 establishing the offense of unlawful sale.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1602, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7443 --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1604, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 7449,

                 an act in relation to persons who may

                 temporarily practice.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                                                        4096



                 act shall take effect August 5, 2004.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1605, by Senator Volker --

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Lay it aside for

                 the day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside for the day.

                            Senator Spano, that completes the

                 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Go to the

                 controversial calendar, please, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will go to the controversial reading

                 of the calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 433, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2577A, an

                 act authorizing the Commissioner of

                 Transportation.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Lay it aside



                                                        4097



                 temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside temporarily.

                            The Secretary will continue to read

                 in regular order.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1602, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7443, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law and the Arts and

                 Cultural Affairs Law.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

                 Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Volker, Senator Schneiderman has requested an

                 explanation.

                            SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President, I

                 must say that in the -- I've been here 32

                 years, and I've never quite seen anything as

                 bizarre as the memo by the City of New York

                 against this bill.  And the reason is that

                 this bill doesn't pertain to the City of

                 New York.  Which makes me wonder what is going

                 on here.

                            The truth is, and those of us that

                 have been trying to deal with this for many

                 years realize there really is almost no law on



                                                        4098



                 fireworks in this state.  We one time took a

                 look to find out how many arrests were made

                 under fireworks laws, and they were minuscule.

                            The one thing we did find out,

                 though, is that the City of New York Police

                 Department had a habit of coming in when there

                 were fireworks displays or whatever and just

                 picking up everything and walking away with it

                 and saying:  They're all illegal, and we're

                 taking it.

                            So we kind of realized -- this was

                 under Giuliani, by the way, the mayor -- they

                 liked the situation they had, because no one

                 really objected.  There were a few lawsuits.

                            The truth is, this bill tries to

                 put some sense in fireworks laws.  Now, the

                 memo opposed to it says that certain things

                 that are now illegal are made legal.  Even

                 though those things are in stores all over

                 Albany here, they claim that poppers are

                 illegal, and sparklers.

                            I'll tell you right now, if I went

                 into my store in Depew, I could pick out all

                 kinds of sparklers.  They're not controlled at

                 all.



                                                        4099



                            They argue in the bill that some

                 CSPC person or somebody said they're very

                 dangerous.  Well, they probably are somewhat

                 dangerous.  But on the other hand, just about

                 everybody has them, and we're trying to put

                 some control under them.

                            And by the way, there is so little

                 control of explosive fireworks, we for the

                 first time really develop a process to deal

                 with the issue of explosive fireworks, which

                 is the -- I forget the name of them now, these

                 big rockets and all this stuff, which are very

                 tough to control even now.  And as I say,

                 primarily what happens is that if someone gets

                 hurt, they go in and they grab it all.

                            I mean, the truth is that it does

                 make one a little suspicious of why there's so

                 much activity.  It almost looks as if some

                 people would rather not have a law.  Because

                 the laws are so old on fireworks.

                            What we're trying to do in this

                 bill, not legalize things, we're trying to

                 control them.  We're trying to develop a

                 system for controlling fireworks.

                            Now, in all candor, as I usually



                                                        4100



                 am, what this will probably mean, after we had

                 discussed this with the Governor's people,

                 they thought it was good, is because the City

                 of New York is doing this memo, I assume it

                 means that poor Paul over in the Assembly

                 probably won't be able to do this bill.

                            And I have to tell you something.

                 I'm a little angry.  They knew, the city knew

                 that we were working on this for two years.

                 And to do a memo in opposition to a bill that

                 doesn't even pertain to the City of New York,

                 a four-page memo, and use the same old

                 shibboleth that they've used in the past when

                 they obviously don't know much about

                 fireworks, is irritating to me.  And by the

                 way, the lobbyist is going to hear it from me,

                 because I'd like to know where he got all this

                 information from.

                            So having said that, this is a bill

                 that for the first time in about 40 years

                 attempts to develop some control over the

                 fireworks industry.  It is so difficult to do

                 any prosecutions now.  When we looked it up,

                 there were extremely few unless you catch

                 somebody with a whole truckload of material,



                                                        4101



                 which of course obviously is illegal, and then

                 you can just grab it all.  On an individual

                 basis, virtually no one is arrested in this

                 state on minor amounts of fireworks, even M80s

                 and all the rest of the things, because it's

                 virtually impossible to arrest them under the

                 archaic statutes that we have in this state,

                 some of which date back to the 1800s.

                            That's about all I can say.  I

                 realize that that memo, which just came out

                 today, speaks to the same things.  And to give

                 everybody their due, the previous

                 administration was Giuliani, and they did the

                 same thing.  And now this is Bloomberg's

                 administration.

                            My suspicion is -- and you know I

                 usually support the police department -- that

                 there's a number of police in New York City

                 who would like to let the situation remain the

                 way it is.  And I hate to say that, because --

                 and it's nice to not have any real laws; you

                 can just go in and scoop stuff up.

                            But in reality, my personal belief

                 is that when this becomes law outside the

                 city, ultimately, and people realize that it



                                                        4102



                 restricts fireworks, the city eventually will

                 come back and want to do this in the City of

                 New York.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I thank

                 the sponsor for his typically candid

                 explanation.

                            The position of the City of New

                 York on this bill I don't think is really that

                 complicated.  I mean, this is a bill that

                 they've opposed before, or a prior version of

                 it.

                            In 2002, Governor Pataki vetoed

                 similar legislation which legalized the sale

                 and possession of many of the same devices.

                 In his veto message, he cited the danger that

                 fireworks present, particularly to children,

                 as evidenced by the Consumer Product Safety

                 Commission's 2000 Annual Fireworks Report,

                 which estimated that of the 11,000 people



                                                        4103



                 treated that year in hospital emergency rooms

                 for injuries associated with fireworks, more

                 than half of those killed, blinded, disfigured

                 or severely burned were children.

                            Now, this is a difficult area, and

                 I don't think anyone objects to an effort to

                 provide some regulation.

                            The objection of the city is that

                 this would make legal devices that are

                 currently illegal, it would make them legal

                 right across the border from the city and

                 almost set up a situation where you're

                 inviting the creation of an illegal fireworks

                 market in the city, where people could bring

                 them right in from Westchester and sell them.

                            In 1995, former Mayor Giuliani

                 initiated the Police Department/Fire

                 Department Joint Fireworks Task Force, and in

                 its seven-year history it's dramatically

                 reduced the sale of illegal fireworks in

                 New York City, and consequently

                 fireworks-related injuries.

                            The City of New York feels very

                 strongly that this bill would undermine that

                 effort.



                                                        4104



                            I think that the city's objections

                 are serious.  I think they have technical

                 objections to the bill.  I think they have an

                 objection to -- they sort of put us in this

                 position, to a certain extent, saying we don't

                 want this to regulate the city, but on the

                 other hand, if you make it legal in

                 Westchester, you're inviting an illegal

                 market.  But they do have some serious

                 technical objections.

                            I mean, this is -- the bill defines

                 devices and makes distinctions based on their

                 chemical composition.  Well, the police are

                 not equipped to assess that.  I mean, we're

                 still going to be in a situation where things

                 are being scooped up and then assessed later.

                            I'm going to vote no on this bill

                 because of the objections of the city.  I

                 think we have made a lot of progress in the

                 city.  And, you know, I don't often rise to

                 give credit to Giuliani administration

                 initiatives, but this is one that clearly has

                 worked.

                            So for that reason, I'm going to

                 vote no and urge my colleagues to vote no.



                                                        4105



                 This is not something that will help us in the

                 city, and I do think that they have technical

                 objections that should be taken seriously.

                            I hope we can address the issue.

                 The current situation is, as the sponsor

                 notes, pretty bizarre, where we appear to be

                 unable to pass any legislation regulating

                 fireworks.  I hope we will do so, but this

                 bill I don't think is the way to do it.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1602 are

                 Senators Andrews, Dilán, Duane, González,

                 L. Krueger, LaValle, Morahan, Onorato, Parker,

                 Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Schneiderman,

                 A. Smith, M. Smith.  Ayes, 43.  Nays, 15.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                                                        4106



                 is passed.

                            Senator Stachowski.

                            SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.

                 President, can I please have unanimous consent

                 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Number 1533.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Stachowski will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar Number 1533.

                            Senator Duane.

                            SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            If I could have unanimous consent

                 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Numbers 1122, 1533, 1550, and 1596.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Duane will be recorded in

                 the negative with regard to Calendar Numbers

                 1122, 1533, 1550, and 1596.

                            Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Mr. President,

                 can you return to Calendar 433.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read Calendar 433.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                                                        4107



                 433, by Senator Libous, Senate --

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:

                 Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Libous, an explanation has been requested of

                 Calendar 433 by Senator Liz Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President, I

                 would be extremely honored to give Senator

                 Krueger an additional explanation on the bill

                 that we debated, I believe, on -- hmm.  It

                 doesn't have the date here on the transcript,

                 but it was a couple of months ago.

                            When the bill was sent over to the

                 Assembly, the Assembly majority had requested

                 that before they would accept it from the

                 minority member who was carrying it, that they

                 would like a change in the bill.  The

                 amendment clarifies the purpose of the

                 transfer by changing the words "public

                 purpose," which were in my original bill, to

                 the words "job creation and economic

                 development."

                            And that, Mr. President and Senator

                 Krueger, is the only change to the bill.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



                                                        4108



                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Liz Krueger, on the bill.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            I appreciate the sponsor's

                 explanation of the changes.

                            While I think it's an improvement

                 to clarify it's for job creation and economic

                 development, I still have the same concerns I

                 had in March, some date in March when we

                 debated this, that we're transferring land

                 that is currently owned by the state to an IDA

                 without an explanation of how that land will

                 be used, what the market rate for that land

                 is, the market rate value, how the money will

                 transfer back to the State of New York, what

                 the role of the local community governments

                 will be in having oversight or say in whether

                 they want this land to be used this way

                 outside of the specific members of the IDA

                 committee.

                            And that New York State shouldn't

                 be transferring our property to, frankly,

                 off-budget IDAs and other public corporations

                 without much more detail about what those



                                                        4109



                 lands will be used for, what the reimbursement

                 to the people of the State of New York will

                 be, and what the argument for, quote, unquote,

                 claiming it's now of economic development/job

                 creation value as opposed to simply public

                 purpose -- I do think that's an improvement,

                 but I still will have enough problems with

                 this bill that I will vote against it and feel

                 that the people of the York deserve better

                 detailed explanations of how we are selling

                 off their land and for what purpose.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Libous.

                            SENATOR LIBOUS:    Just on the

                 bill, I just want to note an important fact

                 that the bill was debated on 3/24/04.  That my

                 staff was efficient and did give me that date

                 and I just didn't see it.  And I want to give

                 them full credit for their efficiency.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                                                        4110



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator L. Krueger recorded in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Spano, that completes the

                 controversial reading of the calendar.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Mr. President,

                 can we return to reports of standing

                 committees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 683B, by Senator

                 Seward, an act to amend the Insurance Law;

                            Senate Print 7434, by Senator

                 Seward, an act to amend the Penal Law;

                            And Senate Print 7485A, by the

                 Senate Committee on Rules, an act in relation

                 to enacting.



                                                        4111



                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Can you please

                 recognize Senator Smith.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator,

                 could we accept the report of the Rules

                 Committee first.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Excuse me,

                 please.

                            I move that we accept the report of

                 the Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the report of the

                 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

                 opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

                            All bills to third reading.

                            Senator Ada Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,



                                                        4112



                 Mr. President.  There will be an immediate

                 conference of the Minority in the Minority

                 Conference Room.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Immediate conference of the Minority in the

                 Minority Conference Room.

                            Senator Spano.

                            SENATOR SPANO:    Mr. President,

                 can we stand at ease for approximately

                 15 minutes, awaiting the completion of the

                 Minority conference.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 1:12 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 1:58 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Robach.

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    Can we please

                 take up the report of the Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1589, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 683B, an



                                                        4113



                 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to

                 the payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1612, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7434, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 staging a motor vehicle accident.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.



                                                        4114



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1613, by the Senate Committee on Rules --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

                 aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is laid aside.

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    Mr. President, I

                 ask that we return to Calendar Number 1589.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1589, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 683B, an

                 act to amend the Insurance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is before the house.



                                                        4115



                            Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Mr. President,

                 to speak on the bill.

                            And I commend the sponsor, as I've

                 commended him many times for bills on

                 insurance that Senator Seward has placed

                 before this house.

                            However, I also commend a bill that

                 was put forth by Senator Montgomery, which I

                 think would add and enhance the value of this

                 bill because it would include a consumer

                 advocate, so it would balance off the front

                 parts of the bill.

                            It would also provide a more

                 appropriate method of calculating excess

                 profits by the insurance companies.

                 Additionally, it would ensure that independent

                 medical examiners are really truly neutral

                 parties, by requiring that they be selected

                 from a random list maintained by the State

                 Insurance Department.

                            And finally, it would provide for a

                 discount on no-fault premiums if an insured

                 who used their own managed-care system were to

                 opt use an insurer's managed-care system.



                                                        4116



                            Having said that, I support this

                 bill and hope that we can deal with these four

                 additional elements before the end of this

                 session.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator Breslin.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 13.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Robach.

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    Mr. President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Committee on Rules in the Majority Conference

                 Room, and we will stand at ease.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There

                 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules



                                                        4117



                 Committee in the Majority Conference Room,

                 Room 332.

                            The Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:01 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 2:03 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Marcellino.

                            SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.

                            Can we return to motions and

                 resolutions, please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Motions and resolutions.

                            Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On behalf of Senator Kuhl, on page

                 number 57 I offer the following amendments to

                 Calendar Number 119, Senate Print Number

                 3438A, and ask that said bill retain its place

                 on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bill will

                 retain its place on the Third Reading



                                                        4118



                 Calendar.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  We have another one.

                            On behalf of Senator Marcellino, on

                 page number 46 I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 1312, Senate

                 Print Number 885A, and ask that that bill

                 retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 amendments are received, and the bill will

                 maintain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 18

                 Senator Rath moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number

                 10419B and substitute it for the identical

                 Senate Bill Number 6129B, Third Reading

                 Calendar 556.

                            And on page 44, Senator Kuhl moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10057A and substitute it



                                                        4119



                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7267A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1254.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            The house will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:05 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 2:16 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could take up the supplemental active

                 list at this time, noncontroversial.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 326, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 6206A, an

                 act to amend the Tax Law and the State Finance

                 Law.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Is there a

                 message of necessity at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,

                 there is, Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept,



                                                        4120



                 please.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All in

                 favor of accepting the message say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed, say nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            The Secretary will read the last

                 section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 937, by Member of the Assembly Kaufman,

                 Assembly Print Number 1233, an act to amend

                 the Executive Law, in relation to fees and



                                                        4121



                 expenses.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1109, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 555, an

                 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 establishing the Class E felony.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4122



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1042, substituted earlier today by Member of

                 the Assembly Conte, Assembly Print Number

                 9890C, an act to authorize the Bethpage Fire

                 District to file an application.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1134, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 7141A,



                                                        4123



                 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

                 establishing the crime of unlawful

                 dissemination of spyware.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 November.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    To explain

                 my vote, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            I'd like to say that I appreciate

                 not only has Senator Balboni introduced a good

                 bill, which we've just passed, but he has

                 also, because he is not present, spared us a

                 lengthy explanation and commentary.  I would

                 like for thank him for both.

                            (Laughter.)



                                                        4124



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator Schneiderman.

                             Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1209, by Member of the Assembly Lifton,

                 Assembly Print Number 6679A, an act to amend

                 the New York State Urban Development

                 Corporation Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Read

                 the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1260, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 6563, an



                                                        4125



                 act in relation to adjusting certain state aid

                 payments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    There

                 is a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Call

                 the roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 bill is passed.

                            Senator Skelos, that completes the

                 noncontroversial reading of the supplemental

                 calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 is the Rules report at the desk yet?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Then if we could

                 return to reports of standing committees and

                 have the Rules report read.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The



                                                        4126



                 Secretary will read.  When he's ready.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    While we're

                 waiting for the reading of the Rules report,

                 please recognize Senator Krueger.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                 I thought I'd take this moment to ask for

                 unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on Calendar 1533 and 1550.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Without objection, Senator Krueger will be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Numbers

                 1533 and 1550.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 1245, by Senator

                 Johnson, an act to amend the Education Law;

                            1793, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Actions and

                 Proceedings Law;

                            1846, by Senator LaValle, an act to



                                                        4127



                 amend the Real Property Actions and

                 Proceedings Law;

                            1931A, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law;

                            2372A, by Senator Flanagan, an act

                 to amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            2766A, by Senator Robach, an act to

                 amend the General Obligations Law;

                            2778A, by Senator McGee, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;

                            3018A, by Senator Saland, an act to

                 amend the Education Law;

                            3523, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

                 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the

                 General Municipal Law;

                            3948, by Senator Robach, an act to

                 amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules;

                            4136, by Senator Wright, an act to

                 amend the State Technology Law;

                            4341, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the General Municipal Law;

                            4620A, by Senator Little, an act to

                 amend the County Law;

                            4773A, by Senator Flanagan, an act

                 to amend the State Administrative Procedure



                                                        4128



                 Act;

                            4777A, by Senator Flanagan, an act

                 to amend the Correction Law and the Public

                 Health Law;

                            4947, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            4951A, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            5048B, by Senator Balboni, an act

                 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;

                            5618D, by Senator Seward, an act to

                 amend the Insurance Law;

                            5990, by Senator Stachowski, an act

                 directing;

                            6084, by Senator Leibell, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;

                            6233B, by Senator Wright, an act to

                 amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

                            6433A, by Senator Padavan, an act

                 to amend the Private Housing Finance Law;

                            6530, by Senator Hoffmann, an act

                 to amend the Tax Law;

                            6818, by Senator LaValle, an act to

                 amend the General Obligations Law;

                            6821A, by Senator Trunzo, an act to



                                                        4129



                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            6836, by Senator Robach, an act

                 authorizing;

                            And Senate Print 7018A, by Senator

                 Saland, an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage

                 Control Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Move to accept

                 the report of Rules Committee, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All in

                 favor of accepting the Rules Committee report

                 say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Rules report is accepted.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

                 thank you, Mr. President.  I would like to

                 request unanimous consent to be recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar 1602.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:



                                                        4130



                 Without objection, Senator Hassell-Thompson

                 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar

                 Number 1602.

                            Senator McGee.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Mr. President, on

                 behalf of Senator Kuhl, would you please

                 remove the sponsor's star from Calendar Number

                 119.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR McGEE:    Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could stand at ease temporarily.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 house will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 2:25 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 2:45 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 can we at this time return to Calendar 1613.



                                                        4131



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1613, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

                 Print Number 7485A, an act in relation to

                 enacting the Leading Educational Achievement

                 for Results Now Act.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Bruno.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, is

                 there a message from the Governor at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Yes,

                 there is.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    I would move that

                 we accept that message.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    All in

                 favor of accepting the message from the

                 Governor say aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Opposed, nay.

                            (Response of "Nay.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 message is accepted.

                            Senator Bruno.



                                                        4132



                            SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

                 the bill that is here before us on the floor

                 really relates to the Senate's plan that we

                 are negotiating now with the Governor and with

                 the Assembly and that, if we hopefully get

                 together, will be submitted to the courts by

                 July 30th as a result of the court decision

                 pretty much mandating that the Legislature put

                 together a plan to provide a sound, basic

                 education for every pupil in the city.  This

                 plan is more comprehensive than that.  It

                 covers every pupil in New York State.

                            We feel that it meets all the

                 criteria necessary by itself, if it were to be

                 accepted by the Assembly and the Governor, to

                 meet the court mandate for a sound, basic

                 education.  And this plan is very, very

                 comprehensive.  It is a combination of state

                 funds, to the tune of about $4.7 billion,

                 federal funds -- this is over five years -- of

                 over a billion, and matching funds from the

                 city having to do with about $1.4 billion on a

                 capital part of $2.8 billion, and about

                 500-plus million from the city in matching

                 funds.



                                                        4133



                            Total everything up for education

                 over the next five years, and we have about a

                 $10 billion package.  And in the first year,

                 about $762 million, part of which would go to

                 fund the high-needs districts in this state to

                 provide a sound, basic education.  Of those

                 funds, about 87 percent.

                            Now, when you look at the total of

                 the way the dollars flow from the state, they

                 relate to the state shares, where the dollars

                 follow the pupils.  This also has a tax relief

                 plan in it, because we all know that

                 especially people on fixed incomes, seniors,

                 middle- and lower-income people are having

                 problems meeting the tax payments on their

                 properties to pay for the school aid.

                            This has about 990 million in

                 relief for people as an enhancement to STAR.

                 And I believe the first year is something like

                 18 percent of the STAR payment kicks in, next

                 year 25 percent, the following year

                 36 percent.  So that it is huge relief

                 amounting to almost a billion dollars that

                 creates an equity across this state.

                            And of all of the total, it



                                                        4134



                 increases educational funding by about

                 33 percent.  And it takes present-year state

                 school funding up to about $15.2 billion.

                            So this is substantial relief in

                 terms of school districts, constituents out

                 there attempting to provide a proper, sound,

                 basic education for every student.

                            Now, I want to just recognize

                 before I sit that we're relating to a court

                 order as a result of a lawsuit by the Campaign

                 for Fiscal Equity, CFE.  We already in this

                 state pay the highest cost per student on the

                 average in the whole United States.  It's

                 about $11,500 on the average.

                            So apparently, with those kinds of

                 dollars going out, young people throughout

                 this state do not equally receive a sound,

                 basic education.  So there's a recognition of

                 that as a result of this lawsuit, and we have

                 focused on that in this legislation.

                            Now, they're not specific

                 recommendations in terms of dollars, because

                 we haven't disposed of the Governor's budget

                 and there's some inhibition on our being able

                 to appropriate presently.



                                                        4135



                            But this is a bill, it is true

                 legislation, and we think it's critically

                 important that it be passed.  Because there

                 are ongoing negotiations, and they'll go on

                 between now and July 30th, to see if we can

                 get together with the Assembly and the

                 Governor to submit one plan to the courts.

                            But if we can't, we're going to

                 submit this plan, the Assembly will submit

                 theirs, the Governor will submit his.  And

                 there may be eight or ten other plans

                 submitted.  And I will offer up that when the

                 courts receive these plans by July 30th, that

                 they may take months to review and then relate

                 which meets, according to their mandate, the

                 needs of the school districts to provide an

                 education.

                            So there are those that talk about

                 not doing a budget until this issue gets

                 resolved.  So I would just share with you in

                 this chamber, and the constituency out there,

                 that you will in this state for a long, long

                 time without a budget, probably into

                 September, October, if we wait for the courts

                 to mandate.



                                                        4136



                            And I think it's unconscionable

                 that we would be held up in getting a budget

                 done for the people of this state as relates

                 to a lawsuit that talks about funding

                 education.

                            So, Mr. President, we have a

                 response, and we think it's a proper response

                 and it's an excellent response to the mandate

                 by the courts.  But more important, we think

                 that this offers a true enhancement to every

                 young person in this state to receive a sound,

                 basic education so they can prepare themselves

                 for life.

                            And our chair in Education is

                 Senator Saland.  And he has worked diligently

                 over months and has been providing the

                 leadership to get us where we are.  And,

                 Steve, on behalf of the Senate -- and I know

                 that everybody appreciates and recognizes the

                 good work that you have done, on both sides of

                 the aisle -- I want to say thank you.

                            Because I know that you've been

                 there days and weekends and nights, and this

                 is an arduous task and the committee that

                 works with you and all of the others that are



                                                        4137



                 on staff have worked hard to get where we are

                 today.  So thank you for your leadership and

                 for your efforts.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator Bruno.

                            Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  A week or so ago, the Majority

                 Leader had a press conference in which he

                 presented the Senate's response to this issue.

                 I applauded him then, and I applaud him now,

                 as well as the chairman of our Education

                 Committee.

                            If you look in aggregate at this

                 entire plan and what it means to the City of

                 New York, you will find that 55 percent of the

                 total dollars added over the time frame

                 covered by this legislation inure to the

                 benefit of the City of New York, in operating

                 aid, in aid that responds directly to the

                 needs issue as outlined in the CFE decision,

                 and capital money.

                            It is an excellent response to a

                 very, very difficult issue and becomes the



                                                        4138



                 basis of hopefully some closure with the other

                 house and the Governor on this critical

                 matter.

                            Unfortunately, I have one little

                 problem.  I want to share it with you.  Also

                 included in this bill are eight more VLT

                 locations.  Without going into that whole

                 issue again, that does prevent a problem in my

                 mind's eye.  I don't think it originated here.

                 I know where it came from.  But I'd suggest to

                 you that that's not the right thing to do.

                            But with regard to the basic thrust

                 of this legislation, laying that issue aside,

                 it is an excellent, positive response to a

                 very complex, difficult issue, particularly in

                 the City of New York, where obviously the

                 overwhelming majority of children in need

                 exist.

                            At the same time, it acknowledges

                 that elsewhere in the State of New York, in

                 other urban centers in particular, there are

                 needs that are not being addressed.

                            And keep in mind, if this decision

                 ends up being in the court's hands, there will

                 be no solution to those issues beyond the City



                                                        4139



                 of New York in terms of needs.  We should keep

                 that in mind as we move forward on this

                 critical issue.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, if

                 the sponsor or whoever Senator Bruno

                 designates would yield for a question.

                            SENATOR BRUNO:    It depends on the

                 kind of question.

                            (Laughter.)

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    It depends

                 on who stands up.

                            (Laughter.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Perhaps, if

                 Senator Schneiderman would like, I would try

                 and provide perhaps a little more background

                 on what's in the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Further



                                                        4140



                 elucidation from the chairman is always

                 welcome.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    If not, I'll

                 just yield to your question, whichever you

                 would prefer.

                            As Senator Bruno, in his opening

                 remarks, pointed out, this is an effort over

                 some five years to commit to what has been

                 required of us under the Court of Appeals

                 decision in June of last year in the CFE case.

                            And what the court in that case did

                 was to direct the Legislature and the Governor

                 to ascertain the actual cost of providing a

                 sound, basic education in the City of New York

                 by July 30th of this year, and to provide an

                 accountability mechanism by which we can

                 measure whether, in fact, whatever it is that

                 we determine to do does provide that

                 opportunity for that sound, basic education.

                            This bill proposes to spend some

                 $762 million in Year One.  And, in the course

                 of doing that, what we do is we attempt to

                 backfill some areas that have been cut and

                 capped by the Governor, areas including

                 transportation, BOCES, public excess cost aid.



                                                        4141



                 We also provide some $355 million, in effect

                 as our initial down payment, to begin the

                 process by way of creating the new category of

                 sound, basic education aid.

                            This is not an appropriation bill.

                 It's a language bill.  And constitutionally,

                 there are limits to what we can do in a

                 language bill.  For instance, we can't provide

                 runs in a language bill.  That would be

                 appropriately and constitutionally to be found

                 in the appropriation bill.

                            But what that bill says, in part,

                 is that we will provide, by the fifth year

                 following the enactment of this bill --

                 subject, of course, to an appropriation,

                 because we all know that we can't bind future

                 Legislatures -- the sum of $19.225 billion,

                 and an amount not less than $1.4 billion to

                 support sound basic education aid.

                            When you look historically at what

                 has occurred in this legislation and with this

                 Governor over the course of the past ten

                 years, we have seen increases in aid well

                 beyond anything that historically had been the

                 pattern for this body, these bodies and the



                                                        4142



                 Executive.  And yet, were you to look back

                 over those past ten years, you would see aid

                 increases of some $450 million being the

                 average aid per year.

                            What we are proposing here is to

                 more than double the amount of that average.

                 We're proposing to provide some $950 million

                 as an average over the course of those five

                 years.  And what we attempt to do we attempt

                 to do in a fashion that brings compliance to

                 the court's order.

                            We also provide an accountability

                 mechanism.  We're familiar that since the

                 decision was rendered, and the decision was

                 rendered based on the 1996-1997 record, there

                 have been some accountability measures that

                 have taken place.  For instance, No Child Left

                 Behind didn't exist previously; it exists now.

                 Our SURR school mechanism didn't exist

                 previously; it exists now.

                            The court, at great length, raised

                 its concerns about the quality of teaching in

                 the City of New York and the significant

                 number of uncertified teachers in the City of

                 New York.  That, to a considerable extent, has



                                                        4143



                 been remedied as we stand here today, although

                 obviously there is more that remains to be

                 done.

                            The amounts of money, as Senator

                 Bruno pointed out, that would be spent in toto

                 over the course of this five-year package

                 would exceed $10 billion.  And of those

                 $10 billion, a portion of it would come from

                 federal money.

                            And our proposal anticipates, based

                 upon data available to us, that "No Child Left

                 Behind," over the course of these next five

                 years, will provide at least a billion dollars

                 in additional funding.  And of that, some

                 $515 million will be directed to the New York

                 City school system.

                            We call for a relatively modest

                 match on the part of the city, a match of some

                 a $554 million.  Both the Assembly and the

                 Governor's proposal are significantly greater

                 than that.  I believe the Assembly's is 1.2

                 and the Governor's is 1.5 billion.

                            And we also provide the city with

                 the additional bonding authority to bond

                 capital projects -- i.e., schools and school



                                                        4144



                 improvements -- to the tune of some

                 $2.8 billion.  Probably it's safe to assume

                 that half of that would be recovered by way of

                 building aid that these projects and the city

                 would be eligible for, the city school system.

                            The net result is that when all is

                 said and done, from these various sources, the

                 sum total of monies that would be available to

                 the city would be somewhere in the area of 56

                 or 57 percent.

                            It's important to note that there's

                 an extensive accountability provision.  And

                 there's also a school reform provision to try

                 and shine the light of sunlight on some of

                 the -- on the manner in which school boards

                 and school proposals are enacted and the

                 ability of taxpayers to get more and better

                 information.

                            And there is -- in addition to

                 that, we also provide for certain teacher or

                 education improvement programs which are

                 enumerated in the bill as well.

                            Thank you, Senator Schneiderman.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman.



                                                        4145



                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 sponsor would yield for a few questions, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            I gather that this legislation

                 really is a one-year language bill embodying

                 the first year of the five-year plan that has

                 been discussed.  Is that correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, it would

                 be difficult to do anything more than a

                 one-year language bill.  Again, understanding

                 that, as we all know, even if we were here to

                 proudly announce a three-way agreement, we

                 probably couldn't do any more than specify for

                 this year what we're doing in this year,

                 absent the willingness of the Governor,

                 perhaps, to give us his budget in its

                 entirety.

                            But the likelihood is that any



                                                        4146



                 product we would deliver at this time would

                 have immediacy in terms of one year and

                 commitments or attempted commitments -- and

                 I'll continue using the term "subject to an

                 appropriation" -- in the outyears.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I just

                 want to make sure that we're all clear that

                 the five-year plan that was announced on

                 May 25th by yourself and Senator Bruno which

                 you were making reference to in your earlier

                 comments is really embodied in the sense that

                 the first year of that plan is really what

                 you're putting forward in this language bill,

                 but the intention of the Senate Majority still

                 is to continue to adhere to the proposal

                 released on May 25th for your five-year plan,

                 which is where, I gather, we got the numbers

                 that were just being discussed.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    And that you

                 would find on page 56 of the bill.  And if you

                 look at paragraph 2, starting on line 13, that



                                                        4147



                 section is the one that contains the reference

                 to 19-plus billion dollars and the amount not

                 less than 1.4 billion for the SBEA.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                 And with reference to the numbers that were

                 just discussed --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman, are you asking Senator

                 Saland to continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes.

                 Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    With

                 regard to the numbers that were just discussed

                 regarding the total aid to New York City over

                 the five-year plan, I just want to make sure I

                 understand correctly.  The statistics that

                 were just given us for the amount of the new

                 appropriations that, under the plan, are

                 proposed to go to New York City, that includes

                 the money for capital, does it not?



                                                        4148



                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, it does.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And in

                 fact, this bill does not -- does this bill

                 change in any way the school funding formula?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    This adds a new

                 funding formula, keeping in mind that the

                 court did not direct any change in formula.

                 The trial court may have preferred or directed

                 a change in formula, but that was specifically

                 rejected by the Court of Appeals.

                            The concern was delivering the

                 amount of money necessary to provide for a

                 sound -- the opportunity for a sound, basic

                 education.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Do you

                 continue to yield, Senator?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So if I

                 understand correctly, then, the funding

                 formula is kept the same but there's an

                 additional new category of aid added which



                                                        4149



                 you're referring to as sound, basic education

                 funds.  Is that correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Correct.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And

                 according --

                            SENATOR SALAND:    And if I may, at

                 the expense of interrupting you --

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    -- equally

                 important in the eyes of the court, the

                 accountability mechanism is addressed also.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And as I

                 read the --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    I beg

                 you to come through the chair, both Senators,

                 as opposed to talking across the floor.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Excuse me,

                 Mr. President.  If, through you, the sponsor

                 would yield for another question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you yield for another

                 question from Senator Schneiderman?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through



                                                        4150



                 you, Mr. President.

                            As I understand it, then, of the

                 total, all funds that are proposed under the

                 five-year plan advanced by the Majority, the

                 total of state funds is approximately

                 $4.7 billion, of which $3.3 billion would come

                 from the state's General Fund and $1.4 billion

                 would come from VLTs.  Is that correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    It is projected

                 that VLTs would be the source of the SBE money

                 under this bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    So the

                 existing funding formula would be sustained by

                 the state's General Fund, but in large part

                 the funds for the sound, basic education

                 portion of the budget would depend on the

                 revenues of the VLTs; is that correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, Senator

                 Schneiderman, to the extent that the language



                                                        4151



                 here provides for certain funding to comply

                 with a court order it would seem to me that,

                 were this to be what was accepted by the

                 court, it would be incumbent upon this body

                 and the Governor to ensure the delivery of

                 those funds.

                            So if, in fact, whatever is

                 currently proposed to be provided by way of

                 VLTs was inadequate, either there would have

                 to be alternative sources or, perish the

                 thought, greater reliance on VLTs, additional

                 VLTs.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, I'm not sure I quite

                 understood the response.  According to --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield for

                 another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    According

                 to the documents that were issued today by the

                 Majority that accompanied the legislation, the

                 projection for the five-year plan -- and this



                                                        4152



                 is where we get to the large numbers that

                 Senator Bruno and yourself and the sponsor

                 just mentioned -- according to the five-year

                 plan that is being proposed today, because

                 this is just, as stated, the first year's

                 language bill reflecting a longer-term plan,

                 $4.7 billion in new state funds would be

                 committed over five years, of which it is

                 projected that $3.3 billion would come from

                 the General Fund and $1.4 billion from the

                 VLTs.  Is that correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I'm sorry,

                 Senator?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    That the

                 plan as announced today, the five-year plan,

                 states that $4.7 billion in new state funds

                 would be provided to schools, of which

                 $3.3 billion of the $4.7 billion would come

                 from the General Fund, and $1.4 billion from

                 VLTs.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Correct.  In

                 fact, with the additional VLTs that are

                 provided for in Part K of the bill, beginning

                 at page 65, it's anticipated that the amounts

                 of money that those VLTs would generate would



                                                        4153



                 be somewhere in the area of $2 billion.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    As far as

                 the City of New York is concerned, is it

                 correct that under the five-year plan proposed

                 by the Majority, the total state funds to the

                 city, new funds, would be $1.8 billion?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I'm sorry?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Referring

                 to New York City now, that the funds, the new

                 state funding for New York City under the

                 Majority's plan over the next five years would

                 be $1.8 billion.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, that would

                 be correct.

                            Other monies that would be provided

                 by the state would be -- you could reasonably



                                                        4154



                 anticipate somewhere in the area of an

                 additional $1.4 billion, which would help to

                 pay the bonds for the capital needs of the

                 city for construction or renovation.

                            That would be state-aidable.  That

                 would be capital, not, you know, operating

                 expense.  But it would still be state money

                 that would be flowing.

                            I would say, out of the total

                 amount that would be going to the city, when

                 you include the capital component, it would

                 probably be somewhere in the area of $3.1 to

                 $3.2 billion.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I may be

                 confused, but my understanding is that there

                 is no authorization for state financing of the



                                                        4155



                 capital expenditures and that in fact what's

                 being proposed -- and I'm using the materials

                 distributed by the Majority -- is the

                 authorization that New York could borrow

                 money.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    You are correct.

                            But understand that once those

                 dollars are bonded and expended, they become

                 state-aidable.  And like any building aid

                 proposal, once you build, you are entitled to

                 be reimbursed by the building aid formula.

                            The city generally would receive

                 50 percent.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I

                 understand.

                            And through you, Mr. President, if

                 the sponsor would continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And does

                 this proposed legislation, or the five-year



                                                        4156



                 plan that it embodies, change the disparity or

                 correct the disparity in the reimbursement of

                 building aid for the city?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I wasn't aware

                 of a disparity.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    You

                 can expand on the question.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    There are

                 differences in the reimbursement rate for

                 capital expenses around the state.  Does this

                 change the current system for reimbursement?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    No, the building

                 aid formula remains as it currently is.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

                            Can you tell us, in this particular

                 bill --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield for

                 another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    In the



                                                        4157



                 bill before us today, how much money under

                 this bill would go to New York City for the

                 2004-2005 school year?  Not counting capital.

                 Let's take out the capital portion and talk

                 about operating aid.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The amount would

                 be approximately 37 percent of $762 million.

                            I'm being counseled by one of much

                 higher authority than me that the number would

                 be $282 million.  And I would never question

                 it, I might add.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I

                 appreciate that.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator continues to yield.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Under this

                 bill that we're voting on today, through you,

                 Mr. President, could the sponsor tell us how

                 much would be allocated under this language

                 bill to the city of Yonkers for the 2004-2005

                 school year?



                                                        4158



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you yield for that

                 question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I don't think I

                 can provide you those numbers, because we

                 don't have runs.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yesterday

                 the Assembly passed a resolution which they

                 accompanied with a breakdown of school aid

                 that would be provided under their resolution.

                 They provided, the Assembly's plan would

                 provide, for Yonkers in the 2004-2005 school

                 year, $110,993,574.

                            Can you tell us whether or not this

                 bill that you're seeking to have us vote on

                 now would provide more or less money for the



                                                        4159



                 City of Yonkers than that proposed by the

                 Assembly?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I can't tell you

                 that.

                            I can only tell you that the reason

                 the Assembly resorted to the artifice of a

                 resolution was because they knew that they

                 couldn't constitutionally provide runs in a

                 language bill.

                            So the bottom line is that they

                 have a proposal which they are certainly

                 advancing which, according to them, is based

                 upon dollars available in the ordinary revenue

                 stream, no need to raise any additional taxes.

                 Something which, speaking for myself, I don't

                 believe is particularly realistic.  But

                 nonetheless, that's what they've chosen to do.

                 And, you know, there's nothing I'm going to

                 say or do that's going to make that any

                 different.

                            I couldn't tell you what my own

                 school district would get under this proposal,

                 because, again, we can't include runs in a

                 language bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through



                                                        4160



                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    There's no

                 reason why -- there's been reference to the

                 constitutional requirements -- why we can't

                 draft and introduce an appropriation bill at

                 this time in the Senate, is there?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    You're

                 asking the chair?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I'm asking

                 the sponsor, through you, Mr. President.

                            I was directed not to talk to him.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I would think

                 that it might be possible, and I'll defer that

                 to counsel, to have a bill draft.  You

                 couldn't introduce it, and it certainly

                 couldn't be the subject of any discussion on



                                                        4161



                 this floor if it can't be introduced.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President.  But there's no reason --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    There is

                 no reason why we couldn't have a draft of an

                 appropriation bill to accompany this language

                 bill; is that not correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Senator, it

                 would be a vain gesture.  If it couldn't be

                 considered, why would it be before us?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    The bill

                 that we are voting on today, though, does have

                 an aggregate amount of money that it provides

                 and that it directs the allocation of for the

                 State of New York for the 2004-2005 fiscal



                                                        4162



                 year, does it not?

                            It is a language bill that, the way

                 the budget process operates in this state, is

                 designed to accompany an appropriation bill.

                 But nonetheless, this bill provides the

                 numbers you've been referring to, the $762

                 million and the other numbers; correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    But it clearly

                 states that it's subject to an appropriation.

                 And there is no appropriation bill.  An

                 appropriation bill could not be introduced.

                 And that being said, it just could not even be

                 on the floor for discussion.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

                 Nonetheless, whatever the issues are relating

                 to the technicalities of the appropriation



                                                        4163



                 bill, there are numbers here that you've been

                 referring to.  And there's some -- if there

                 are no calculations or runs, as they're

                 called, how do we know New York City's share?

                 How do we know the total number for the

                 2004-2005 fiscal year if there have been no

                 numbers run so that we know how much money is

                 in here?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    In order to

                 comply with the court decision, we have

                 prepared what we believe to be a reasonable

                 estimate reflecting what will be required of

                 us.

                            I think it's safe to say that given

                 the fact that the Governor in his budget

                 proposed some $147 million, this is some

                 600-plus million dollars more than the

                 Governor's proposal, that no district will

                 fare certainly worse than they would have

                 under the Governor's proposal.  And in fact, I

                 think it's safe to say that no district will

                 sustain any losses or diminution in their aid

                 under this proposal.

                            But more than that, at this point,

                 in the absence of runs, I can't provide you



                                                        4164



                 any specifics.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

                 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

                 continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Can you

                 provide us with a reasonable estimate of the

                 amount of money under this bill that the City

                 of Poughkeepsie would receive?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    No, I cannot.

                            As I mentioned earlier, I can't

                 even tell you what my own district will

                 receive.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    The

                 Assembly again, however vain the gestures may

                 be -- some might argue that a language bill

                 without an appropriation bill is a vain

                 gesture.  But what they gave us was a

                 resolution, for whatever reason they chose to

                 proceed that way.  They did provide an



                                                        4165



                 analysis of what their plan would produce.

                 And in their plan they gave the reasonable

                 estimate that the City of Yonkers would get

                 $110,993,574.

                            I gather that you are today unable

                 to give us the reasonable estimate that the

                 Senate's alternative plan would provide.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you yield to that question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I'm not sure if

                 I --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    I

                 assume it's a question.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    We haven't been

                 asking the same question back and forth since

                 a number of occasions.

                            I can't -- I can't provide you with

                 a number.  And I think, quite candidly, it's a

                 rather cruel hoax on the part of the Assembly

                 to throw out numbers that they know are not

                 sustainable, knowing full well that all it's

                 going to do is increase expectations for those

                 who may not understand what's happening here,

                 only to have them dashed later on when the

                 reality of what they're going to receive



                                                        4166



                 actually comes in whatever appropriation bill

                 we ultimately do.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  I appreciate the sponsor's

                 answers.  On the bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    We're

                 engaged in a bizarre legislative dance here.

                 I don't think -- I haven't been here that

                 long, but I don't think even old-timers have

                 seen anything quite like this before.

                            But what we do have, very clearly,

                 are several competing plans, as Senator Bruno

                 has stated.  And the competing plans all

                 purport to be an effort to comply with the

                 Court of Appeals decision in the Campaign for

                 Fiscal Equity case.

                            I respectfully submit that the

                 five-year plan proposed by the Senate

                 Majority, and the first year of which is

                 embodied in the bill we are now being asked to

                 vote on, would not pass judicial scrutiny,

                 would not be approved by Justice Leland

                 DeGrasse, and would not be found to be in



                                                        4167



                 compliance with the CFE decision.

                            In fact, this legislation and the

                 five-year plan that it reflects provide

                 $4.7 billion in new state funds.  That is less

                 than the amount required to meet existing

                 contractual obligations and to cover

                 inflation.

                            Further, the key reform touted here

                 is that there's now a sound, basic education

                 fund on top of the existing formula which is

                 being preserved.  But the sound, basic

                 education fund is not taken care of by the

                 state's General Fund.  It's dependent on VLT

                 revenue.

                            And while I appreciate the

                 sponsor's statement that he believes we might

                 have to comply in some other way if VLT

                 revenue went down, nonetheless we're being

                 asked to sign off on a five-year plan, the

                 first year of which is before us in the form

                 of a piece of legislation.

                            And the difficulty here is that the

                 regular funding formula, the State General

                 Fund would provide virtually all the money.

                 But as far as the sound, basic education fund



                                                        4168



                 goes, the bulk of it would be provided by VLT

                 revenue.

                            So we're in a situation where, if

                 Gamblers Anonymous has a good year and

                 gambling goes down, the high-needs school

                 districts would suffer.

                            Furthermore, and I think -- I don't

                 think that there -- I think everyone here is

                 sincere in their desire to get moving towards

                 a solution to this crisis.  But we have a

                 piece of legislation on the floor before us

                 today, and the sponsor has candidly

                 acknowledged that he cannot give us even a

                 reasonable estimate of how much money is in it

                 for the school districts around the state.

                            At least when the Assembly asked

                 its members to vote on the resolution, they

                 provided numbers so the members could see what

                 the effect of the resolution would be.

                            The Senators here are being asked

                 to vote without knowing how much is in it for

                 the Syracuse district, the Yonkers district,

                 districts in Senator Johnson's district.

                 Senator Breslin is being asked to vote without

                 knowing how much is in it for Albany.



                                                        4169



                            That's not the way to conduct the

                 legislation.  There's no emergency today that

                 requires us to proceed forward without clearly

                 identifying how much money would be allocated

                 to each of the school districts in the state.

                            We can draft an appropriation bill.

                 We can even introduce an appropriation bill.

                 There's no bar to that.  And we certainly can

                 provide runs.

                            And I strongly urge that if you're

                 telling us we should vote on a bill where we

                 can't even tell our constituents how much

                 money is in it for their districts -- we're

                 being asked to vote on a bill where the

                 Majority is now acknowledging we don't know

                 and cannot even give a reasonable estimate of

                 how much money this would provide to our

                 districts -- that that's not the proper way to

                 undertake legislation.

                            We have a moral obligation as well

                 as a legal obligation under the CFE opinion.

                 I would respectfully submit that this plan

                 does not address the needs of New York City.

                 We are told that the portion of aid to

                 New York City, and let's -- you know, we might



                                                        4170



                 as well get everything out on the table.

                 There's a plan that's been advanced by the

                 plaintiffs in the CFE case, $9.5 billion over

                 four years.  The Regents came up with a plan,

                 $14.4 billion over seven years.  The Senate

                 Minority, Senator Paterson issued a plan

                 showing how we could get $10 billion over five

                 years.  And I would respectfully suggest that

                 Senator Paterson's plan is the only one that

                 has extremely explicit sources of the revenue

                 to fund that plan identified.

                            The Senate has proposed a plan for

                 $6.3 billion over five years; the Assembly,

                 $7.3 billion over five years.

                            All these plans are being submitted

                 in an effort to comply with the CFE decision.

                 There is a dramatic difference, however, in

                 the portion of the money that would go to the

                 City of New York and in the portion of the

                 money that would go to high-needs districts.

                            The five-year plan of the Senate is

                 not going to satisfy the court by providing

                 $840 million from VLTs for the City of

                 New York.  I mean, it's just -- that's not

                 going to satisfy the court.  That's not enough



                                                        4171



                 money to deal with the issues that were raised

                 in the CFE decision.

                            And I would also urge my colleagues

                 that while we're hearing a lot of rhetoric

                 about how we want to avoid judicial review,

                 that it has been -- the predictors of a long,

                 drawn-out legislative process really reside

                 here in this house on the other side of the

                 aisle.

                            And I have great respect for

                 Senator Saland, but he has repeatedly stated

                 that he expects this to be dragged out in

                 litigation for many, many years.  Senator

                 Bruno has said similar things.  There is no

                 way that we will avoid that litigation if we

                 adopted the plan presented today into law.

                            So I would urge my colleagues that

                 if you want to pass this bill today and you

                 want to adopt the Senate Majority's five-year

                 plan, you might as well hang a banner out on

                 the lawn of the Capitol saying "Welcome

                 Special Master," because the special master

                 will be here.

                            The Campaign for Fiscal Equity

                 decision, which I am prepared to read from at



                                                        4172



                 as much length as you would like -- I've done

                 it before here -- made extraordinarily

                 explicit findings of the needs of the

                 1.1 million children in the school system of

                 the City of New York.  It spoke about

                 buildings in collapse, spoke about hundreds of

                 thousands of children graduating from high

                 school with an 8th-grade reading level.

                            This is not something that's going

                 to be addressed with the amount of money

                 that's offered here.  This is the lowest

                 amount of money of any of the plans, even

                 lower than the Governor's.

                            And so I would suggest that this

                 bill before us today should not be voted on

                 because it's not going to avoid a special

                 master.  It should not be voted on because it

                 doesn't provide the funding that, even if we

                 weren't under a court order, that our moral

                 obligation should require us to provide.  It's

                 the lowest amount of money of any of the plans

                 now on the table.

                            And finally, it should not be voted

                 on because the members of this house are being

                 asked to vote on a plan when they can't even



                                                        4173



                 tell how much money is in it for their school

                 districts.

                            This is not the way to solve this

                 problem.  This is another example of bad

                 Albany process.  This is the reason that in a

                 recent poll -- and I must say we should all be

                 ashamed of this -- more people in the state of

                 New York think the courts should run the

                 school system than the State Legislature.

                 That's pretty disgraceful.  That's pretty

                 disgraceful.

                            So I'm going to vote no on this.

                 And I urge that everyone vote no.  And I hope

                 that we will return to negotiations in good

                 faith.  But if the plan of the Majority is to

                 throw something out on the table and say, We

                 put out a plan, and just really with the

                 understanding that we're going to wait for a

                 special master and we're drag this out through

                 twenty years of litigation, then that is --

                 then let's get that out in the open.  That, in

                 my view, is proceeding in bad faith.

                            Remember, remember, there has been

                 a lot of talk about the comparison between

                 Brown v. Board of Education and the Campaign



                                                        4174



                 for Fiscal Equity case.  In his opinion,

                 Justice DeGrasse opened with a quote from

                 Brown v. Board of Education.  And you all

                 remember the resistance to the implementation

                 of Brown.

                            I hope that the State of New York

                 will show more integrity in the implementation

                 of the mandate of the CFE decision than many

                 of the states in the United States showed in

                 the implementation of the Brown decision.

                            Let us not proceed by delay and

                 litigation in which the Governor of the State

                 of New York has opposed this every stage of

                 the way.  You know, we're not required to go

                 in front of the special master with the

                 Governor opposing what the plaintiffs want.

                 But that's clearly the policy that he's

                 endorsed.  And I respectfully suggest that by

                 his sending us a special message to get this

                 bill on the floor, he seems to be

                 collaborating in some respect with my

                 colleagues on the other side of the aisle.

                            The policy of this house and the

                 policy of the Governor should not be to fight

                 the CFE decision, fight the plaintiffs, fight



                                                        4175



                 those advocating for basic civil rights, for a

                 sound, basic education, every step of the way.

                 If we pass this bill today, we're back in

                 court, the special master is coming, and we

                 are, quite frankly, derelict in our

                 constitutional duty.

                            I urge everyone to vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator Schneiderman.

                            Senator Robach.

                            SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  I have to respectfully disagree

                 with my colleague.  I think that you have to

                 look at this in a very global manner.

                            You know, a while back ago there

                 was a commercial on television, I can't

                 remember if it was the poultry industry or the

                 beef industry, it said "Real food for real

                 people."

                            I think we're at the point in these

                 budget negotiations and the CFE where we

                 really have to have a real plan for real

                 people, all the people, and avoid the court

                 case and not make sure this only affects the

                 pupils in New York City but also affects the



                                                        4176



                 students all across New York State that are in

                 high-needs districts, not just New York City.

                            My job is to try and make sure, at

                 least how I interpret it, that a budget is in

                 place, something is done to make sure it will

                 help other students in my district.  While my

                 colleague has stated that he thinks this is

                 the guarantee that the courts will draw this,

                 it was the Senate, in fact, which came out

                 with the first plan of CFE, a real bill, not a

                 resolution.  It was in fact the other house

                 who seems to be dragging their feet.  And

                 their leader has said in print it might be the

                 best way to go is to let a master draw this.

                            And it is a very great concern to

                 me that we are not embracing any plan,

                 especially all my colleagues, regardless of

                 party, from upstate New York, but really the

                 whole state, to move anything forward that

                 will spur more dialogue and make us come to an

                 agreement on this that is not going allow the

                 courts to do it, which is really going to

                 allow the people who should do it, those of us

                 right in this room.

                            I cannot, in good conscience, say



                                                        4177



                 to my people in my district what I did was

                 wait to see what would happen, not advance any

                 measures.  And I think our job is to act on

                 these things.

                            Now, I don't know the exact dollar

                 amount of what this will do.  But I know if we

                 do nothing, there will be nothing in the court

                 case for upstate school districts, high

                 needs -- Rochester, the greatest concentration

                 of poverty in comparison to any school

                 district.

                            What I do know is this plan moves

                 getting something done and will certainly give

                 more money to the highest-needs school

                 district I represent, and that's the one in

                 the city of Rochester.  I know it will have

                 the same effect on a lot of other cities in

                 upstate New York.

                            And I would encourage all my

                 colleagues to vote for this measure and

                 encourage everyone in the process to continue

                 the dialogue, using all these things, a

                 specific proposal, this one right here, as an

                 impetus to get real negotiation to try and get

                 this done prior to the date when a master



                                                        4178



                 would be brought in.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Bonacic.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Mr. President,

                 would Senator Saland yield for a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Steve, did the

                 courts, in its decision, define what a "sound,

                 basic education" is?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    No, it did not.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you.

                            Why are we in this mess?  I have

                 watched this from the very beginning this

                 year, for five, six months.  I'm frustrated.

                 I'm stained, like we all are, of a

                 dysfunctional legislature, a session that's

                 the worst ever.  And I can tell you, I've been

                 here 15 years, this is a session that's the

                 worst ever.  We have done nothing.

                            But I know every member in this

                 chamber works hard.  They want to do



                                                        4179



                 something.  I know that we have talent on both

                 sides of the aisle looking for a solution.

                 Why are we in this mess?

                            Now, first of all, I think that,

                 for the years that the courts reviewed on the

                 allocation of money, every state elected

                 official in the Assembly and the Senate in

                 budgets approved those votes and it became

                 adopted by the Governor.  I think the courts

                 went a little too far in judicial activism.

                 That's where it started, the problem.  We've

                 got to deal with it, because it's reality.

                            Why not talk about transportation

                 and analyze that for allocations downstate,

                 upstate?  Why not health care?  You open up a

                 Pandora's box that's very difficult to solve.

                            And when I became a Senator, I

                 said:  I'm going to protect my district, but I

                 want to be reasonable, I want to be fair, I

                 want to represent everybody in the state of

                 New York and do it wisely and learn how to

                 compromise.

                            What's happened?  Why are we in

                 this mess?  We have political polarization.

                 That's number one.  We have regions --



                                                        4180



                 New York City fighting upstate.  That's number

                 two.  I have never seen the intensity of that,

                 in 15 years, as I see now.

                            Now, we should have done a budget.

                 There's no reason why CFE has stymied health

                 care, transportation, economic development.

                 Is there one person in this chamber that

                 really believes we should tie CFE to the

                 budget?  It makes no sense to me why that

                 happened.  That was a political decision, to

                 drive up the price of money to New York City.

                 These are political decisions.  These are not

                 leadership positions of why we came here to do

                 the right thing.

                            Now, how do we get off this dime?

                 I have no answer for CFE.  I really don't.

                 Every one of us could put up a plan.  But we

                 are in such an arena that we can't agree,

                 Democrats and Republicans, between the

                 Assembly and here, whether we should have a

                 round table or a rectangular table when we

                 negotiate.  Now we're going to figure out

                 what's best in educating and money for the

                 children of the city of New York?

                            The other thing that I think we've



                                                        4181



                 made a terrible mistake, everything is

                 linkage.  Everything.  We don't do HAVA, we

                 don't do the Rockefeller Drug Laws, we don't

                 do Timothy's Laws and any other important

                 priorities that you have.  All tied into CFE.

                 Because that's what this amounts to, how the

                 Assembly negotiated from the very beginning.

                            We probably need a change of

                 leadership to get back on track, so we can get

                 back to what's reasonable and not have

                 political warfare and polarization.  There

                 shouldn't be one person that can be a wrecking

                 ball to have so much power to stymie the

                 process and stain us all.  That's what's

                 happened this year.

                            So I say that all of us should be

                 clamoring for a budget, like we have argued on

                 this side of the aisle.  On our CFE proposal,

                 is it perfect, is it the best one?  I say

                 maybe there is better minds.  Maybe it should

                 be compromise more.

                            But knowing how we have behaved,

                 the courts are going to decide this.  And how

                 can you define numbers when no one has defined

                 what a "sound, basic education" is?



                                                        4182



                            Mr. Schneiderman?

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    If the

                 Senator would yield for a question.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I'd like to

                 finish my remarks, and I'll gladly yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator will not suffer an interruption.

                            SENATOR BONACIC:    I think we've

                 got to get back to basics.  And the basics

                 are -- because I don't like being stained,

                 just like you don't like being stained.  And I

                 don't like this institution being stained.

                            Let me just say, in conclusion, CFE

                 will probably wind up in the courts, because

                 the polarization, the regional differences --

                 it's a way to get more money to New York City.

                 And perhaps they do need more help down there.

                 But, you know, I'm a product of poor schools

                 with an excellent education, because we had

                 excellent teachers.  It wasn't throwing money

                 at the problem.

                            And you know what blows my mind in

                 this analysis and that court decision?  The

                 asterisk by the plaintiffs saying:  We can't

                 guarantee that if you gave us $19 billion we



                                                        4183



                 would increase accountability in excellence

                 and education.

                            I -- for the life of me, I can't

                 understand that decision.  You have to have

                 reforms.  We have to have accountability.  And

                 at some point, whether the courts do it or we

                 do it and we come up with billions of dollars

                 for the New York City children, you know what?

                 Let's make sure they come out smarter and we

                 do a better job down there.  It's not just

                 about the money.  It's got to be about reforms

                 and accountability.

                            This is a start, what we're trying

                 to do.  It's not perfect.  And then we get up

                 and we beat the report up, we send messages to

                 the court saying:  Don't accept this plan,

                 because it's really not taking care of

                 New York City.  And it goes on and on and on.

                            Reasonable people can be put in a

                 room, they can talk about compromise, giving

                 more money to the city, talk about

                 accountability, reforms, and how we're going

                 to help those kids.  None of those discussions

                 have taken place.  Not at all.

                            This is about political



                                                        4184



                 polarization.  That's what we've become.  It's

                 a sad day.  It's a sad day for our institution

                 that we've reached this level.  We can do much

                 better.  We all should.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    Thank

                 you, Senator.

                            Senator Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. President,

                 if somebody would answer a couple of -- I

                 don't know whom to address my question to.

                            If Senator Saland would yield to a

                 couple of questions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Senator --

                 through you, Mr. President -- I heard you say

                 that the City of New York would receive

                 approximately 37 percent of the total dollar

                 amount.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I said of the

                 combination of what we're calling SBE, or

                 sound, basic education aid, and additional



                                                        4185



                 school aid that would be provided over the

                 next five years, the city would receive, of

                 that, approximately 37 percent.  And I went on

                 to explain that with the capital component,

                 that would be beyond that.

                            And I would just like to point out

                 also, it's worth noting -- and I don't think

                 anybody who has read the case would dispute

                 this -- the court basically said they didn't

                 care where the money came from.  The court

                 said:  State, you didn't abide by your

                 constitutional obligation to provide a sound,

                 basic education.  It has to be fixed.  But we

                 don't care where the money comes from.

                            If you want to ask more of the

                 city, you can do that, because the city, in

                 effect, is a component of the state.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    If the Senator

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Senator.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:    The

                 Senator yields.



                                                        4186



                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    That leads me

                 to the question that I'm asking.  How much

                 will the City of New York be required to put

                 into the pot, so to speak?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, we --

                 under this proposal, the city would provide

                 about $554 million, which probably, over a

                 five-year period, amounts to maybe about

                 2 percent a year of an increase.  The city's

                 probably putting up right now somewhere

                 between $5.5 billion to 6 billion.

                            So it's not a tremendous amount of

                 money to ask of the city in terms of

                 maintenance of effort or expanded beyond

                 maintenance of effort.  As I mentioned in my

                 earlier remarks, the Assembly proposal calls

                 for $1.2 billion.  The Governor is

                 $1.5 billion.  And then there's also a capital

                 component.

                            And I know, as you know, Senator

                 Stavisky, the mayor has a five-year capital

                 plan for $13 billion.  We're saying we'll give

                 you bonding authority for another $2.8 billion

                 above that, of which the state, by way of

                 building aid, would reimburse about half of



                                                        4187



                 that.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    And if the

                 Senator would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Through you,

                 Mr. President.

                            What would happen if the city does

                 not put in the approximately 500-and-some-odd

                 million dollars that they would be required to

                 put in under either this legislation or the

                 governance legislation that we passed in 2000?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    The failure to

                 put your matching -- or the required amount of

                 money would result in the monies from the

                 state not flowing to the city.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    And if the

                 Senator would continue to yield and elaborate

                 on that response.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Saland, will you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Would you

                 elaborate on that?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I'm glad I



                                                        4188



                 checked with staff, because I might have told

                 you something that might not have been

                 completely correct.

                            The monies would be recouped from

                 general operating aid.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Dollar for

                 dollar?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    In other

                 words -- my last question, if the Senator

                 would continue to yield.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    In other

                 words, if the city does not put in its share,

                 then they would not be in compliance with the

                 CFE.  To a greater extent, there would be less

                 money available for the sound, basic

                 education.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Correct.

                            And in all fairness, the court

                 didn't say the city must pay.  What the court

                 said was, in effect, we don't care where it

                 comes from, and you can make the city pay.  It

                 didn't say there should be a specific share

                 allocated to the city.  They basically said



                                                        4189



                 the city could be part of the solution.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Thank you, Senator Saland.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

                 Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            We've been debating this for seven,

                 eight, nine months now about how do we fix the

                 problem.  And everybody looks at the

                 Legislature and says it's their fault.

                            But, you know, I went and done a

                 little research.  I found out we have a State

                 Education Department, a holy empire made up of

                 people who don't even return your phone calls

                 because they don't work for you.  We have a

                 Regents that nobody on this side of the aisle

                 has ever voted for any of them.  We've never

                 had an opportunity to put forth one of our

                 candidates, because they don't meet the

                 criteria of somebody else.

                            Now, you're starting to say here

                 that, hey, wait a minute, there's a problem

                 here.  We need the money.  Can somebody tell



                                                        4190



                 me what the Regents or State Ed has been

                 doing?  I remember two years ago the Regents

                 said, We need $9 billion.  When I called my

                 Regent and said, "By the way, what's it for?"

                 "I'll get back to you."  That was last

                 October.

                            How are we supposed to sit here and

                 listen to what a court says when a layman's

                 reading of the court decision says, What does

                 it cost to educate somebody in New York City?

                 As Senator Saland just said, very clearly,

                 that New York City can be asked to be part of

                 the solution, not part of the problem.

                            We keep looking around at one

                 another and everybody back in your districts

                 are saying, It's your fault, it's your fault.

                 Did you ever hear anybody talk about the

                 Regents?

                            I did a poll last weekend, 110

                 people.  Not one of them knew who the Regent

                 was that represents Orange County.  Not one.

                 He also has Westchester, a few others.  He's

                 never set foot in our county.

                            So why are we having these kind of

                 individuals assigned a responsibility with no



                                                        4191



                 accountability to try to help us solve a

                 problem that they haven't even addressed

                 themself?

                            And when the court looks at it, you

                 have to understand -- or question the court,

                 did the court ever decide to ask somebody in

                 the State Education Department what happened,

                 how did this get so far out of hand?

                            And if you go back and check, since

                 Governor Pataki has been in office, New York

                 City has increased -- its aid has increased

                 every single year.  Every year.  Not once or

                 twice, but every year.

                            And the problem is it just doesn't

                 seem that anybody wants to solve it.  It's

                 simple.  Just give us more money.  Where does

                 the accountability come in?  Who's

                 responsible?

                            Many of us grew up -- you see the

                 white hair on the president up there, he was

                 in school a long time ago when there was

                 accountability, as I was, and many of you.

                 But you just can't throw money and solve a

                 problem.  And that's what it seems that the

                 people who are looking at New York City think.



                                                        4192



                 Give them money, money.

                            Joel Klein, the chancellor, three

                 weeks ago had an article in the Post, and he

                 had a figure of $30 billion.  Our total

                 package is $14.9 billion.  And now we're

                 sitting here saying there has to be more

                 money.

                            When are we going to find out what

                 happened to the School Construction Authority?

                 How much did they have, how many projects were

                 done on time, and what do we see as an

                 advantage for our students?  The excuse is, We

                 overran the budget, we did this, we did that.

                 Who's accountable?  We never want to put the

                 finger and blame somebody.  We blame the

                 Legislature.  And we shouldn't be blamed.

                            We have a responsibility.  But

                 shouldn't we be asking the Regents:  Come over

                 here, tell us what you did, tell us what you

                 didn't do?

                            This is a mistake, a mistake,

                 because everybody is saying find the money.

                 Where's the money going to come from?  I heard

                 someone say, We're not going to use VLTs.

                 I'll never vote for a tax increase.  You don't



                                                        4193



                 want the VLTs, then you find the money.

                            And then I hear someone say, Oh,

                 well, this program won't work.  What have you

                 contributed except holler We need more money,

                 we need more money?

                            I think it's about time that we

                 brought some people in that are supposed to be

                 accountable and make them accountable.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  I'd like to ask if Senator

                 Saland would yield for a couple of questions,

                 please.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Let me just

                 ask you a few very basic civics-lesson

                 questions, if you don't mind.

                            If I were to explain to a group of

                 high school students from Central New York how

                 this situation came to exist and where the



                                                        4194



                 balance of power is, I would like to follow a

                 little bit of the line of questioning that

                 Senator Larkin talked about.

                            In fact, Senator Larkin and I were

                 chatting a little while ago, and I asked some

                 questions just for my own edification, because

                 in this chamber we sometimes feel such weight

                 on our shoulders from other forces, and I

                 think it behooves us to take a minute and go

                 back to a very basic understanding of how the

                 state government operates and how the various

                 branches and agencies operate.

                            Now, State Education operates a

                 little differently and is configured a little

                 differently than other state agencies.  In

                 this chamber, we regularly confirm

                 commissioners that are the nominees of the

                 Governor to head state agencies --

                 Agriculture, Insurance, Labor.  But Education

                 is different.  Please explain, if you wouldn't

                 mind, Senator Saland, why and how -- well,

                 just how Education is different.  Why is not

                 really as relevant right this minute.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, the

                 education policy, pursuant to the



                                                        4195



                 Constitution, is primarily driven by the Board

                 of Regents.  The Education Commissioner is

                 appointed by the action of the Board of

                 Regents.  That does not mean that the

                 Legislature and the Governor have no say in

                 education policy; the Constitution clearly

                 provides that the Legislature has the ability

                 to engage in education policy.

                            The Regents basically propose

                 education policy, and they have the comfort of

                 doing something that none of us do; they can

                 make proposals which have, in effect, the

                 weight of law without having to worry about

                 the fiscal impact of those proposals.  They

                 make the proposals, and we are responsible to

                 fund them, to the extent that we choose to

                 fund them.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you.

                            Senator Saland, would you yield for

                 an additional question?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 do you yield for another question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you.  I



                                                        4196



                 appreciate your indulgence.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    And I should add

                 that I think that New York may be the only one

                 of the 50 states -- maybe the only one; I'm

                 not sure if South Carolina has something

                 similar -- but I can safely say certainly no

                 more than two, but maybe the only one that has

                 a system like that.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    With a system

                 in which the Regents have the ability to --

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Where the

                 Regents and Education Commissioner are

                 independent of the Legislature and the

                 Governor.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Are able to

                 create policy which is then funded by the

                 Legislature and the Executive branch.

                            Senator Saland, the Regents, as we

                 know, are selected by a majority of the

                 Legislature.  Which in this state means the

                 Assembly, with the largest number of votes,

                 has the authority to pick most of the Regents.

                 Is that correct?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Well, that's

                 correct, because of the disproportionate



                                                        4197



                 membership of the Assembly.  I believe

                 currently there's in excess of a hundred

                 members of the Democratic conference in the

                 Assembly, and less than 50 in the Republican

                 conference.  And the numbers here are 37 on

                 the Republican side, 24 on the Democratic

                 side.

                            The combination of the two

                 basically, when you combine both houses,

                 basically says that there is

                 disproportionately the ability by those,

                 should they choose, who are members of the

                 Democratic Party to pick the Regents.

                            And as a practical matter, that's

                 what has been happening certainly for some

                 period of time.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    It's been

                 happening for some period of time, but,

                 Senator Saland, would you say historically

                 it's always been a political decision, from

                 your knowledge of education policy in this

                 state?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I would assume.

                 It would be hard for me -- I can't say that

                 I'm a student of what has occurred decades ago



                                                        4198



                 in the appointment process.  But I have to

                 assume that there's probably always been some

                 element of politics involved in the selection

                 of the Regents.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you.

                            Senator Saland, if you would yield

                 for an additional question.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 will you yield?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    He does continue

                 to yield.

                            You may proceed.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Again, for a

                 high school civics lesson, the selection of

                 the Commissioner -- now, we appoint -- the

                 Governor appoints the commissioners subject to

                 confirmation by the Senate.  All other state

                 agencies are thus created, are thus led by

                 their commissioners.

                            What happens with the Department of

                 Education?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Neither the --

                 the Governor has no role.  The commissioner



                                                        4199



                 really is a creature of the Regents.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Okay.  Is

                 selected by the Regents, not subject to any

                 confirmation by the Legislature.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Correct.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    For an

                 additional question, Senator Saland -- a final

                 question, I think -- was there a purpose

                 stated any place that you know of?  I mean, in

                 your role as chair of Education, I'm sure

                 you're asked this from time to time.

                            Why is it considered --

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Point of

                 order.  Point of order, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

                 Montgomery, why do you rise?

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    I would

                 like -- point of order.  I would like a ruling

                 on the germaneness of this discussion between

                 Senator Saland and Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Madam

                 President, if --

                            THE PRESIDENT:    I find that the

                 discussion is germane, Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    This is



                                                        4200



                 germane to our --

                            THE PRESIDENT:    This is germane.

                            You may proceed, Senator Hoffmann.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            Is there a rationale within the

                 Constitution or within recent education policy

                 that explains why this department is

                 configured differently than other state

                 agencies?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    I believe the

                 intention was just to establish it as an

                 independent policy entity.

                            SENATOR HOFFMANN:    Okay.  All

                 right.  Thank you very much, Senator Saland.

                 I appreciate your indulgence in going through

                 this line of questioning.

                            And rather than simply injecting my

                 own thoughts and philosophical ponderings to

                 this issue right now, as I think many people

                 are very interested in doing, I just wanted to

                 go through a few of the facts.

                            As I said earlier, Senator Larkin

                 and I talked somewhat earlier about this.  And

                 I had said to Senator Larkin I am -- I'm very



                                                        4201



                 troubled by the fact that as a legislator I

                 have to go back home and explain to people how

                 this situation has come to exist.

                            And while it's easy to point the

                 finger of blame at the judicial branch and a

                 judge in particular who has issued a ruling

                 that has shackled us all to this CFE situation

                 and compelled us all to come up with some

                 means of satisfying the court, I think we

                 really do need to stop and look at the

                 situation that we have in our state.  Which,

                 as Senator Saland just pointed out, is

                 different from every other state.

                            Our state education system is

                 clearly not operating with the best interests

                 of the children of this state at hand.  It's

                 also, I think, fairly clear now to many of us

                 that the State Education Department does not

                 really take into consideration the way funding

                 for education can and should be configured.

                            Various parts of the state pay a

                 tremendous amount to fund education.  And as

                 Senator Bruno said earlier today, we pay more

                 per pupil, on average, through all sources,

                 than every other state in the nation.  We are



                                                        4202



                 funding our student education at a very high

                 level, more than $30,000 per student.  Is that

                 correct?  $11,000.  Oh, excuse me.  My

                 per-person figure is based upon another state

                 agency that is also ridiculously high, but

                 that's the Department of Corrections.

                            At $11,000 per pupil, we are

                 funding more than any other state in the

                 nation for an education that has now been

                 determined by the courts to be inadequate for

                 students in New York City.

                            Now, this Legislature, and

                 certainly this house, does not have within it

                 the ability, nor should it, the ability to

                 micromanage education.  But yet we are saddled

                 with the obligation to come up with a formula

                 for people who, as Senator Larkin said, often

                 don't return our phone calls at the State

                 Education Department, and yet we don't have

                 any idea how much money will be enough money

                 to satisfy the courts.

                            And the courts, by the way,

                 required that the funding be adequate for a

                 sound, basic education for every student in

                 New York State, yet the same court did not



                                                        4203



                 define what a sound, basic education actually

                 is.  I mean, talk about being in an Orwellian

                 world where we are being asked to do

                 something, not given the tools to do it, not

                 told exactly what we are expected to have for

                 an outcome.  I mean, I cannot imagine how we

                 could be more entangled in red tape and in

                 unreasonable admonitions and expectations than

                 we are today.

                            I think Senator Bonacic, who just

                 vented a little bit and showed a level of

                 emotional frustration, is a very apt

                 spokesperson for most of the members of this

                 house.

                            And the public needs to know that

                 many of us are trying to do the jobs to which

                 we are elected, are trying address other

                 pressing responsibilities in this state.  But

                 we are thwarted from doing that because (a) of

                 a lawsuit, (b) the court ruling about that

                 lawsuit and, now, (c) the determination by the

                 other house in this Legislature, the Assembly

                 leader in particular, who has said that there

                 will be no state budget until this CFE lawsuit

                 is settled.  How utterly unreasonable is that?



                                                        4204



                            I know in my part of the state

                 there are some people who are trying to send a

                 message that we are spending too much on

                 education.

                            Last year we made a bold move when

                 we in this chamber and the other chamber

                 partnered to write a budget.  Because we

                 didn't think that the Governor had put enough

                 money into education, we had done something

                 that was going to greatly expand education.

                 The Governor vetoed it.  And then, in an even

                 bolder move, we overrode that veto, because we

                 wanted to send as much money as we could to

                 the school districts all over the state to

                 educate our students.

                            I stand here as an example of a

                 legislator being targeted for doing that very

                 thing.  There are people out there who are

                 reacting most critically of us for spending

                 too much for education.  And yet we have a

                 court ruling that says we must spend more,

                 more, more.  How much is enough?  Nobody

                 knows.  What constitutes "sound, basic

                 education"?  We don't know.  And yet we can't

                 put a budget together until somehow we find



                                                        4205



                 the answers to these questions.

                            I feel very much like Alice in

                 Wonderland right now.  This is not an

                 acceptable way for government to operate.  And

                 the people of this state are very, very angry.

                 Perhaps we need to start looking at something

                 like initiative and referendum and let the

                 people themselves make the decisions if we are

                 going to have a hogtied legislature that can't

                 do its job.

                            I think that the proposal before

                 us, everything that I've heard from Senator

                 Saland and Senator Bruno makes me feel

                 confident that this is a reasonable, a very

                 reasonable attempt to try to meet the needs as

                 explained by the court.  Even though all the

                 information is not presented from the court

                 about filling in the blanks, I think that this

                 document, this bill that we're voting on I

                 think is very reasonable.

                            Is it totally fair to all parts of

                 the state?  Gosh, I don't know.  I have a

                 district that includes rural poor, urban poor,

                 wealthy suburban areas, struggling

                 middle-class districts.  All of them are ably



                                                        4206



                 represented by local members of their own

                 school boards.  All of them have hardworking

                 teachers.  And yet all of them are frustrated

                 by regulations imposed upon them by the same

                 Board of Regents that we talked about just a

                 little while ago.

                            Is this a be-all, end-all?  I don't

                 know.  But I am proud of the fact that this

                 chamber is at least willing to present a

                 document, a fairly detailed document to the

                 courts to say here is our attempt to answer

                 the questions that you have asked us to

                 answer.

                            I'm also proud of the fact that it

                 attempts to provide a framework that is fair

                 to the whole state.  It does not simply

                 address New York City, but it does not want to

                 penalize -- here in this chamber, we do not

                 want to penalize any other part of the state

                 for the problems in the New York City schools.

                 We want to be as fair as we can in funding the

                 New York City schools as ordered by the

                 courts.  But we can't do it while breaking the

                 bank for the rest of the state or shifting too

                 much of a burden on property taxpayers in



                                                        4207



                 other parts of the state.

                            I think that this is a responsible

                 step.  I hope, I really hope that the court

                 will look favorably upon this.  And I also

                 hope that the court will consider how hard it

                 is for an entire branch of government to be

                 hogtied to a court ruling and to a legislative

                 chair in the other chamber who is unwilling to

                 do -- as Senator Bruno said, unconscionably

                 unwilling to address the needs of the state to

                 allow a budget to be passed until this is

                 addressed first.  It is, as Senator Bruno

                 said, unconscionable on the part of the

                 Speaker.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lachman.

                            SENATOR LACHMAN:    Certain things

                 were mentioned this afternoon that I will not

                 go into because I'm limiting myself to five

                 minutes.

                            When I was president of the New

                 York City Board of Education 25 years ago,

                 New York City was being shortchanged.  Today,

                 New York City continues to be shortchanged, as

                 do other parts of the state.



                                                        4208



                            Now, though the Campaign for Fiscal

                 Equity concentrated on New York City, the

                 court gave us the possibility of going beyond

                 that, to other parts of the state, to rectify

                 wrongs that have long been in existence.

                            I think this is outrageous and

                 unconscionable that these wrongs are still in

                 existence and this bill does not meet these

                 wrongs head-on and attempt to correct it in a

                 major way and in a major situation.

                            Now, previously one of the speakers

                 spoke about the Legislature's being supreme in

                 the area of education and that powers are

                 being taken away from this Legislature by the

                 courts.  The only reason the courts have

                 entered the situation is because it is so

                 egregious in New York State that they enter

                 the situation.

                            The only reason the U.S. Supreme

                 Court entered the situation four years ago in

                 Bush versus Gore was because it was getting

                 out of hand and the Legislature and the courts

                 could not handle it.

                            The only reason that the U.S.

                 Supreme Court was involved in Marbury versus 



                                                        4209



                 Madison was to show that though we have three

                 branches of government, the courts are the

                 first among these three equal branches of

                 government.

                            These are important things to

                 realize.  The courts would not have been

                 involved -- and we're saying they should spell

                 out sound, basic education.  That means

                 they're taking everything away from the State

                 Legislature.  We have to spell out what is

                 sound, basic education.

                            It was said that there is no

                 accountability for education.  What in the

                 world are we talking about?  Two and a half

                 years ago I stood here with my Republican and

                 Democratic colleagues and voted to

                 recentralize education.  The mayor of the City

                 of New York is totally responsible for

                 education.  No place in the United States is

                 there a mayor who has such absolute

                 centralized power over education.

                            Ladies and gentlemen, the simple

                 thing is the precise thing is the accurate

                 thing.  This bill does not face up to the

                 egregious discrimination in the area of



                                                        4210



                 education to New York City and other areas in

                 New York State, and therefore I cannot vote

                 for it.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.  If the sponsor -- or Senator

                 Saland, in this case -- would please yield.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

                 will you yield for a question?

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Madam

                 President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

                 Senator Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            Senator Saland, we had quite a bit

                 of discussion about numbers earlier and what

                 couldn't be found and what could be found.

                 What's the breakout of what percentage of the

                 STAR tax cut rebates would impact New York

                 City versus the rest of the state?  Because

                 there is a formula for that in your bill.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Probably

                 somewhere in the mid-90 percent of the

                 benefit, the rebate, would go to areas outside

                 of the City of New York.



                                                        4211



                            I would say out of 990 million,

                 which I believe is the gross amount over the

                 five-year period, less than 50 -- I'm going to

                 say somewhere between 45 and 50 would benefit

                 New York City real property taxpayers.  And

                 the balance would go to areas outside of the

                 city.

                            And that reflects the existing STAR

                 formulas, which certainly reflect the fact

                 that the real property tax effort in the City

                 of New York is dramatically lower than

                 anywhere else in the state.

                            And also, if you may recall -- no,

                 it actually predates you, I think, STAR --

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    It does.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    -- there was at

                 that time requested, as part of the agreement

                 to do STAR, some personal income tax benefits

                 that went to City of New York residents as

                 part and parcel of that agreement.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

                            Madam President, on the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 on the bill, Senator.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



                                                        4212



                            So much has already been said

                 today, and I don't want to repeat my

                 colleagues on either side of the aisle.  I did

                 want to ask that question about the STAR

                 refund, because there was a discussion about

                 what percentage, 37 percent, might go to

                 New York City over some period of time if we

                 were actually doing a budget that projected

                 out for real years, but we're really only

                 doing one year.

                            So what we know is what the cost

                 will be to New York City if they want matching

                 funds, not necessarily what they would get in

                 the future.  We have really no commitments

                 long term about the amount of money, new money

                 available to high-needs districts, because

                 again it isn't a budget appropriation bill.

                 Therefore, we can only do projections here.

                            We know we're not doing new funding

                 formulas here.  It specifically says that

                 we're not addressing that.

                            And yet we also now know that we're

                 going to have tax cuts in here from the STAR

                 program, of which it sounds like about

                 $900 million of the $990 million won't apply



                                                        4213



                 to New York City.  I didn't ask the details

                 about the other high-needs urban districts

                 that also have renters versus homeowners.

                            So we know that there's going to be

                 a tax cut applying primarily outside the

                 high-needs districts, because it applies

                 primarily to homeowners, not renters, which

                 ends up being an urban versus suburban/rural

                 argument.

                            We don't know what the real money

                 will be here going into the high-needs

                 districts over a five-year period.  That seems

                 a little unjust to me if we're trying to

                 evaluate this bill.

                            We also heard a great deal about

                 the frustration and the embarrassment of

                 having the courts order us, the Legislature,

                 to get something done.  And I think Senator

                 Lachman did a very good presentation of some

                 history.

                            But I'll make the argument to us,

                 shame on us in the year 2004 that we so failed

                 to address unfair funding formulas in school

                 aid in this state for so many decades that

                 others had no choice but to go to the courts



                                                        4214



                 and get the courts to force us to do something

                 that we in fact should have done certainly

                 10 years ago, and some people would argue 20

                 or 25 years ago.

                            So we may be mad that the courts

                 have ordered us to act, but I actually think

                 we should be, for those of us who might have

                 been here 25 years ago, madder at ourselves

                 and, for those of us who are more recent

                 additions to the Legislature, reflective of

                 the fact that we are in this position today

                 not because of people bringing a lawsuit, not

                 because we're actually having a current fight

                 over whether CFE fair funding formula

                 decisions should be attached, coupled with or

                 decoupled from the current annual late budget

                 fight, but over the fact that we got here

                 through a very long history of failed action

                 and inaction.

                            And that it is a shame that the

                 people of New York had to go to the courts to

                 get resolution for something that we, as a

                 legislature, should have done decade after

                 decade.

                            So I think the shame is that we



                                                        4215



                 lived with and accepted unfair funding

                 formulas for decades, that we forced the

                 people to go to another wing of government,

                 the courts, to get resolution on their claims.

                            That we -- Senator Bonacic talked

                 about before about politics and leadership.

                 That whether it was the failure of leadership

                 or the failure of our political partisan

                 structure, we didn't get the job done.  And

                 now the courts have ruled and the public is

                 begging us to get the job done.  They are

                 begging us to come up with fair funding

                 formulas.

                            And in fact, a previous senator

                 claimed that no one has come up with a

                 definition of what is both a fair funding

                 formula and a reasonable standard of a quality

                 education.  But in fact, there are a series of

                 reports out there, we all have them -- the

                 Zarb report, the Regents report, the CFE

                 report.  I'm sure there are others.  There are

                 reports for us to work off of, but we don't in

                 the Senate proposal before us today.

                            There are alternative options for

                 us to consider, but we don't in the bill



                                                        4216



                 today.  Senator Bruno started out by making

                 the argument that we spend an average of

                 $11,000 per student in the State of New York

                 and that it's the highest amount nationally.

                 Well, the trick in math about an average is

                 somebody is above and somebody is below.  And

                 in New York State, what's so important to

                 highlight is the true inequity behind that

                 $11,000 number.  Because we have children

                 where we're not spending more than $6,000 a

                 year per student in some districts, rural

                 upstate districts, and we have some districts

                 that are spending over $16,000 per student.

                            So one can't work off of an average

                 for the State of New York, which is what the

                 courts also said in their decision.

                            And Senator Bonacic argued we can't

                 let the courts decide this because then maybe

                 they should be deciding transportation aid or

                 health care aid.  Well, since those two

                 formulas are also incredibly inequitable --

                 New York City gets a dramatically lower share

                 of public transportation aid than its suburban

                 counterparts in relationship to the number of

                 people -- I would be the last person to argue



                                                        4217



                 that you have to go to court to get good

                 legislation and a fair budget in the state of

                 New York, but maybe people should explore

                 going to the courts for transportation aid and

                 for health care and for any number of issues.

                 It's all an indictment of our failure to do

                 the right thing.

                            So I urge us to do the right

                 thing -- not to pass this bill today, but not

                 to leave town without sitting down and

                 negotiating a real answer to this problem

                 starting now, before June 30th [sic].  Don't

                 let it get thrown back into the courts.

                 That's the embarrassment for ourselves if we

                 don't address this, if we don't address this

                 correctly.  And now we are months and months

                 and months too late; we have to keep going

                 forward now.

                            And Senator Bonacic argued that

                 perhaps it was a failure of leadership.  I am

                 sure he did not mean the leadership of this

                 chamber when he said that.  But I do believe

                 we need to ensure, on behalf of all of us,

                 that we can go home to our districts and say

                 to our constituents that we did work as



                                                        4218



                 legislators to resolve such a serious issue

                 that the courts of New York had to speak and

                 order us to do it, but that we recognized our

                 obligation and we in fact did the job.

                            So I urge us to vote no on this

                 bill today and, frankly, to not leave town

                 until we get this resolved and not let it fall

                 back into the courts on June 30th, because

                 that does harm to all of the children of the

                 state of New York, and it certainly does

                 further harm to our reputations as the elected

                 representatives of our districts.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Sabini.

                            SENATOR SABINI:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.  On the bill.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

                 on the bill, Senator.

                            SENATOR SABINI:    You know, I've

                 been amazed at the evolution of the arguments

                 today.

                            Because over the last few decades,

                 we've heard in New York City about waste at

                 the Board of Education.  We heard about the

                 wild man from Miami, Joe Fernandez, who had no



                                                        4219



                 accountability.  We heard about Ramon

                 Cortines, who our former mayor used to make

                 pejorative comments about, about not having a

                 spine.  We heard about Chancellor Crew, who

                 was very nice to have around Mayor Giuliani

                 when he was sitting around reading books to

                 children in 1997.  When '98 came and the

                 election was over, out.  Those were guys who

                 were unaccountable.

                            Now I've learned that it was, all

                 along, the State Department of Education that

                 was unaccountable.  News to me.  I always

                 thought it was the City Board of Education.  I

                 always thought -- in fact, I learned in this

                 chamber when we voted on it that we gave the

                 mayor of the City of New York accountability

                 for education.  And his commissioner, who's

                 not an educator, not an educrat, but someone

                 who is business, who knows how to manage a

                 buck, we gave him responsibility.

                            I think that's where the

                 responsibility lies.  You did it.

                            Now, I happen to think the mayor

                 and the chancellor -- or the commissioner of

                 education, as some now call him -- are doing a



                                                        4220



                 pretty good job in trying to make sure that

                 the city is getting the best bang for the

                 limited bucks we give them.  But if you think

                 that those are the guys, the mayor and the

                 commissioner of education, Joel Klein, are not

                 doing a good job, well, when the members on

                 the other side of the aisle are spending their

                 money at the Republican convention in New York

                 City, why don't you ask them where the money

                 is?  Because they are appointees of the mayor.

                            I happen to think they're doing a

                 good job.  But if you think there's an

                 accountability problem, ask them.

                            Because, you know, I heard one of

                 my colleagues say, well, it's not about the

                 money.  Well, there's a famous philosopher on

                 the radio every morning who says:  When you

                 say it's not about the money, it's about the

                 money.  It's about the money.  You want to

                 make sure that we don't get what is our fair

                 share.

                            Now, I heard a big long

                 dissertation about the court system and about

                 interventionist judges.  Well, I'll tell you

                 what.  I'll stop talking -- if you stop



                                                        4221



                 talking about interventionist jurors, I'll

                 stop talking about President Bush.  Because

                 that works both ways.  We have a president who

                 was elected by the Supreme Court.

                            So if you think there was some

                 cabal between parents looking out for the

                 needs of their children and a bunch of judges

                 across the street here, because it was upheld

                 by the State Court of Appeals, then I guess

                 that things are a lot darker in this state

                 than I thought, that there's a lot more of a

                 conspiratorial attitude that they're all

                 together to sort of flush money away down the

                 toilet.  I don't think so.  I think they were

                 looking out for their children and the needs

                 of the children of the City of New York.

                            This plan, for example, does things

                 like cuts education to people for whom English

                 is not their primary language.  Well, that

                 happens to be 80 percent of the children in my

                 district.  I don't think that's particularly

                 fair to me.

                            I happen to think, having been up

                 here a while, that the members of this body

                 are pretty smart people on both sides of the



                                                        4222



                 aisle.  But yet the devil is often lost in the

                 details.

                            Let's take a look at the back end

                 of this bill.  A minor point, but it's an

                 important one.  Last year the Legislature

                 enabled the harness tracks to have VLTs to

                 save the harness industry.  That was going to

                 be a good by-product of that.  And we asked

                 people to invest millions of dollars into

                 those tracks, into Saratoga, into Buffalo, now

                 Yonkers, Aqueduct.

                            And what this bill does is

                 basically tell them it was money wasted,

                 because we're going to put eight more around

                 the state.  And yeah, there's a 15-mile

                 buffer.  But as I've learned, 15 miles in a

                 lot of parts of the state is a milk run.

                 That's not a very long piece of territory at

                 all to cover in just a few minutes.

                            And there is a limited amount of

                 gaming revenue in this state.  You're going to

                 cannibalize what's there now and frankly hurt

                 the people that we told, Trust us and invest

                 millions of dollars in your facility.

                            So it's sort of like with -- one of



                                                        4223



                 the reasons that there's an unlimited supply

                 of golf magazines is that golf magazines will

                 tell you one month here's how to correct your

                 slice, and then the next month they tell you

                 here's how to correct the hook that came about

                 correcting your slice.

                            So one day we say, here's a bill

                 that's going to save the harness industry, and

                 next year, here's a bill that's going to

                 destroy the harness industry.  Now, the bill

                 is not really about the harness industry, but

                 I'm just pointing out how government doesn't

                 work for people up here.

                            I believe members of the Majority

                 are smart people.  You wouldn't be voting for

                 a bill that you thought was going to hurt your

                 districts.  That's why I don't really believe,

                 in my heart of hearts, that you don't know

                 what the outcome of this bill is going to be.

                 Unless they're serving Kool-Aid in the

                 conference and I'm not aware of it.

                            I think that you know, in your

                 heart of hearts, that you're going to be

                 protected and that ultimately the court will

                 have to decide and you'll be off the hook.



                                                        4224



                 That's not what we're sent here for.

                            And I've got to tell you that the

                 level of rhetoric and placing the blame

                 around -- to the courts, to Commissioner

                 Mills -- it's just misplaced.  Let's deal with

                 the facts of our children, everyone's

                 children, including in the high-needs

                 districts all over the state, deserve the best

                 education they can get and the dollars to get

                 them that best education.

                            I'm all for accountability, I'm all

                 for educational reform.  But let's stop

                 fighting over who's to blame and who the bad

                 guys are here, and let's get to the level of

                 passing something that we can put our finger

                 on and say, This works for us, this works for

                 everyone.

                            Until such time, I can't support

                 this.  I'm going to be recorded in the

                 negative.

                            Thank you.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Brown.

                            SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            You know, colleagues, I have to



                                                        4225



                 tell you I am really very frustrated with this

                 process.  I want to vote for a budget.  I want

                 to vote for a school aid formula.  And this

                 bill that we have before us today, we all

                 know, if we're honest, this doesn't do it.  We

                 all know this is a one-house bill.  We know

                 that there isn't a companion bill in the

                 Assembly.  And without the Senate, the

                 Assembly, and the Governor all coming

                 together, we have nothing.

                            So what we've done for hours in

                 this room today is essentially going to be

                 meaningless.

                            Now, I know that all of us in this

                 room are frustrated because we want to do

                 something.  And I know that those who have

                 advanced this legislation have advanced it

                 because you want to see this process move

                 forward.  And I certainly respect that.

                            But the thing that troubles me, and

                 I think the thing that does us all a

                 disservice is we will be voting on this bill

                 today without knowing, without knowing what's

                 going to go to our school districts all across

                 the state.



                                                        4226



                            Now, you know, there was some

                 reference to the Assembly resolution.  But at

                 least the Assembly resolution has a formula,

                 has dollar amounts for every school district

                 in the state.

                            I represent Buffalo, Niagara Falls,

                 Grand Island, and the City of Tonawanda.

                 Buffalo, under the Assembly plan, would get

                 $58 million.  I'm for Buffalo getting

                 $58 million in additional aid.  Niagara Falls,

                 under the Assembly plan, would get

                 $3.1 million.  I'm for Niagara Falls School

                 District getting an additional $3.1 million.

                 Grand Island would get close to a million

                 dollars under the Assembly plan.  The City of

                 Tonawanda would get $318,000 under the

                 Assembly plan.  In this plan, I know what my

                 school districts are receiving.

                            I think it's unfair, it's improper,

                 and it's unrealistic to put us in a situation

                 where we have to vote on something as

                 important as this and we don't know what our

                 districts will be receiving.

                            If I vote on this today, and I get

                 home tonight and the next-door neighbor asks



                                                        4227



                 me, "Senator Brown, what is our school

                 district going to be receiving from this vote

                 that you made earlier in the day?", I won't be

                 able to give that person an answer.  Is that

                 reasonable?  Is that the way this Legislature

                 should be doing business?  I don't think so.

                            Let me also say that, as Senator

                 Sabini just indicated, the Legislature didn't

                 make this problem.  The Legislature did not

                 make this.  We all know we did not create this

                 problem.  But there are children in

                 communities all across this state that are not

                 getting the education that they deserve.

                 There are children all across the state that

                 are failing, and it's not just in New York

                 City.

                            There are 517 school districts all

                 across this state that are not spending at

                 adequate levels.  That's not just New York

                 City, 517 school districts.  Our children

                 deserve better.

                            And we all know that if we don't

                 take action by July 30th, children outside of

                 New York City, all across this state, will

                 lose.  Because the court will appoint a



                                                        4228



                 special master who will make the decision, and

                 that special master will make a decision based

                 on what that court has ruled on, and that

                 ruling is only based on the needs of New York

                 City.  And that's because only the parents and

                 educational advocates in New York City brought

                 this court case.

                            So, I mean, let's not pit ourselves

                 against each other, upstate versus downstate.

                 In New York City, parents that saw their

                 children failing, they did something about it.

                 They filed a lawsuit, and they won that

                 lawsuit.  And that's why we have this

                 situation.

                            But those same parents and those

                 same advocates realized that they were not the

                 only community with this problem.  And because

                 of that, they retained the best educational

                 experts to look at this.  And they did a

                 Campaign for Fiscal Equity Adequacy Report.

                 And in that report, it gave a formula for the

                 funding that should go to every school

                 district across the state.

                            That provides us with a guideline.

                 We can't say that we don't know what that



                                                        4229



                 report holds.  We can't say that there aren't

                 numbers out there that we can look at as a

                 framework for doing the right thing in this

                 State Legislature.

                            You know, I want to do something.

                 And I am frustrated, very frustrated that

                 we're not doing more.  Because the reason I

                 ran for this office was to make a difference

                 in the lives of people that live in my

                 community.  But we're not doing that.  It

                 saddens me this bill doesn't do that.  And

                 because this bill doesn't do that, I can't in

                 good conscience vote for it.

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Padavan.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Point of

                 information.  When did the debate on this bill

                 begin?

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Ten minutes of

                 3:00.

                            SENATOR PADAVAN:    Ten minutes of

                 3:00.  So there are roughly 12 minutes left,

                 right?

                            Thank you, Madam President.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Malcolm



                                                        4230



                 Smith.

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Thank you

                 very much, Madam President.  And I'm so happy

                 that the note of time still gave me enough

                 time, Senator Padavan, to make my comments.

                            But I think it's important that as

                 many of my colleagues on both sides of the

                 aisle get up and speak to this particular

                 issue.  Because everyone knows that this

                 particular issue is probably the most

                 significant matter that we will handle during

                 this session, outside of coming up to and

                 finalizing a budget.

                            There are just two things that I

                 think become a superpriority for us throughout

                 this entire state.  One is public safety, and

                 we've been debating and talking about that

                 ever since 9/11, how our lives have changed

                 and it's so important in terms of maintaining

                 safety for everyone.  And obviously the next

                 thing is education.

                            There is no doubt in my mind, and

                 no doubt in anybody's mind here, that what

                 happened in terms of the court decision with

                 Judge Leland DeGrasse is something that will



                                                        4231



                 go down in history.  Whether it was Brown 

                 versus Board of Education, whether it was the

                 Civil Rights Act, whether it was the Voting

                 Rights Act, this is one of those particular

                 decisions that one will never forget and it

                 will have a profound effect on this entire

                 state.

                            The interesting thing, though, I do

                 want to point out from some of my colleagues,

                 Senator Larkin talked about just throwing

                 money at a particular problem and that is not

                 the solution.  And while I can agree that

                 obviously you need some accountability, the

                 bottom line to Senator Larkin is the fact that

                 it's a court order and every lawyer that is in

                 here understands, when you're under a court

                 order and you do not follow such, the results

                 and the consequences of that is pretty dire.

                            The second thing is Senator

                 Bonacic -- and he's correct.  Senator Bonacic

                 rightfully said there was a lot of talent

                 around this room.  The sad part about that is

                 the talent wasn't used.

                            Unfortunately, we became aware of

                 this particular bill last night, early this



                                                        4232



                 morning.  And, quite frankly, had the other

                 side of the aisle taken the time to involve

                 some of the intellectual capital on this side

                 of the room, we might have come up with

                 something that we could be sitting down

                 talking about and agreeing to.

                            That didn't happen.  I agree with

                 Senator Bonacic, we've got a lot of talent in

                 this room.  We should use it, there's no

                 question about it.

                            Senator Robach made a profound

                 statement.  He talked about looking at this

                 from a global standpoint.  And he's right.  If

                 you take the time to look about what is

                 happening in this state, and probably in this

                 world, we are currently in a fierce

                 intellectual global competition.  The problem

                 is because we are not educating the children

                 of this state, which is also turning into this

                 country, we are falling behind other countries

                 around the world.

                            And when you start talking about

                 outsourcing and why things are being

                 outsourced, it's not just being outsourced

                 because of labor costs, it's being outsourced



                                                        4233



                 because the intellect that they can purchase

                 far exceeds the intellect that they can

                 purchase from this state.

                            We have a challenge before us that

                 we need to take a look at from a global

                 perspective.  It's not just about New York

                 City.  It's not about just upstate New York.

                 It's about what our children will be able to

                 do in terms of competing on a global

                 perspective with all the children in this

                 world.  And we are failing at that in a

                 dramatic sense.

                            In this state, we basically do

                 three things.  We incarcerate, we medicate,

                 and we educate.  That's all we do.  No matter

                 how much else goes on throughout this chamber,

                 we do those three basic things.

                            We are looking to change what we do

                 around incarceration.  I believe we are.

                 Where'd Senator Volker go?  He left.  No, he's

                 over there.  I believe we are looking to do

                 some things around medicating, which is why I

                 know my leader, Senator Paterson, was on that

                 task force.  And hopefully that will happen.

                 But when it comes to education, that is where



                                                        4234



                 we seem to have a problem.

                            My colleague Senator Schneiderman

                 rightfully pointed out all of the numbers, the

                 disparity in the numbers, where they make no

                 sense.  And I think it's just a -- it's just

                 pretty sad, just like my good friend, my mayor

                 from Buffalo, Senator Brown, stated.  We

                 should just do the right thing.

                            We have several choices before we

                 end this session.  One of them is to come up

                 with a plan that is sound, one that will

                 educate all of our children so they can take

                 their natural place in the cycle of life, they

                 can compete around the world, and we will no

                 longer be in a position where we're not

                 considered the premier state.

                            I like the fact and I like to boast

                 about the fact that New York State leads the

                 rest of the country, leads the rest of the

                 world not only in how we do our business but

                 in our intellectual abilities.  Right now we

                 have a problem with that, because we can't say

                 so.

                            I would like to continue to be

                 proud about being a citizen of this state.  I



                                                        4235



                 would like to be proud to be around this

                 country and to be around the world saying we

                 can offer the intellect, you can come purchase

                 the intellect from our state because we have

                 it.

                            If in fact we don't enact this

                 bill, and in fact if we don't enact the right

                 bill, we won't be able to do so.

                            Unfortunately, because this bill

                 falls far short of the need -- $1.2 billion,

                 $282 million is not the number.  We need to

                 use the talent that we have around this room.

                 Involve Senator Schneiderman.  Involve Senator

                 Paterson.  Senator Toby Stavisky has a wealth

                 of intellect.  Senator Lachman has a wealth of

                 intellect.  Senator Ruth Hassell-Thompson has

                 a wealth of intellect.  They all have a wealth

                 of intellect.

                            Take the time.  Put your basic

                 petty concerns to the side.  Use the

                 intellectual capital that's on this side of

                 the room, and let's come up with a real bill

                 that we can leave on the 22nd and be proud to

                 go home and tell our children that they're

                 going to be able to be competitive in the rest



                                                        4236



                 of world.

                            Thank you very much.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

                            SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

                 Madam President.

                            There has been some talk

                 circulating around this chamber that we should

                 have a Campaign for Fiscal Equity II, a case

                 that would teach the Assembly and the Senate

                 and the Executive branch about a sound

                 legislative agenda, that would allow us to

                 have on-time budgets and would allow us to

                 address educational issues.

                            The Court of Appeals acted on

                 June 26, 2003.  A commission was appointed by

                 the Governor.  Yet the Zarb report came in

                 just before April 1st, just before our budget

                 deadline.  Yesterday a resolution passed the

                 New York State Assembly; nothing binding.

                            The only real proposal that came in

                 was back in March, when the Senate Minority

                 issued a report with a five-year plan that was

                 balanced, effective, efficient, that would

                 provide an education to all people in the

                 State of New York.



                                                        4237



                            And now we are faced with a bill

                 today where none of us know what will happen

                 to our particular school districts.  And I'm

                 asked to vote -- having 12 school districts in

                 my district, I'm asked to vote in the blind,

                 to say this is good for them or bad for them.

                 It's impossible to tell.  And as Senator Brown

                 so aptly said, it's a one-house bill.  It's

                 going nowhere.

                            It's time for the three leaders,

                 for both houses to really come together, to

                 really make a difference.  Because many of us

                 have said for a long period of time, even

                 though there's posturing to the contrary, the

                 three proposals are not that far apart.  And

                 if we think about that Court of Appeals

                 decision, which went through the courts for

                 years, was almost a year ago -- and to

                 paraphrase a great legal saying:  CFE delayed,

                 students denied.

                            I will vote in the negative.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

                 member wish to be heard?

                            Senator Montgomery.

                            Senator Connor, excuse me.



                                                        4238



                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Oh, I'm

                 sorry.  Go ahead.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you, Madam

                 President.

                            And I believe I was on the list.  I

                 signaled much earlier and got a nod back from

                 someone there.

                            THE PRESIDENT:    We were unaware

                 of that, Senator.  I recognize that.  And you

                 have the floor.

                            SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you.

                            You know, the question that no one

                 is really addressing is how did we get here.

                 Why are we here?  We know why it's a problem

                 for the Majority in this house, the Majority

                 in the other house to see eye to eye on this

                 issue and resolve it.  How did we get here?

                            And sitting here and listening to

                 everyone speak, it occurred to me there's a

                 root cause here, and there's only one way out

                 of this.  Everyone, naturally, has the

                 question "how is my district going to do?"

                 But that's how we got here, because of pure,

                 single-member district -- we didn't create

                 this system -- democracy that says your job is



                                                        4239



                 to get for your district.

                            And in past crises a hundred years

                 ago when reformers like Teddy Roosevelt and

                 then Al Smith on the labor issues, he became a

                 reformer on that, addressed major problems and

                 conflicts and needs in this state, the concept

                 of civic virtue carried them.  It wasn't

                 because their constituents demanded it.  It

                 wasn't because the people that elected them,

                 who would vote for them again and again, said:

                 You've got to take care of these poor people

                 down on the Lower East Side even though you

                 represent a rich part of town.

                            That's not why they did what they

                 did.  They did it because they had a concept

                 of community, of civic virtue, that the whole

                 civic body, the whole state, would be better

                 off, better off if these problems were cured,

                 better off if there were decent working

                 conditions, better off if kids were educated.

                 Not just their kids.  The other kids were the

                 problem, and they cared about the other

                 people's kids because of the circumstances

                 that were involved.

                            We got here because -- and Senator



                                                        4240



                 Hoffmann is not here.  The State Education

                 Department sets curriculum.  They don't run

                 schools in New York.  They don't run schools.

                 They don't spend all this money we're

                 appropriating.  They really don't.  They don't

                 manage them.  They may try sometimes, but

                 they're not supposed to be managing them.

                            Education was always a local

                 charge.  How did the state get in the

                 business.  What was the impetus for that?

                 Quite frankly, the impetus were members of

                 this Legislature, mostly the postwar boom,

                 where people poured into the suburbs and

                 tremendous, tremendous pressure was being put

                 on suburban areas around this state to build

                 new schools.  There were lots and lots of kids

                 and lots and lots of people moving into towns

                 that certainly didn't have schools to support

                 that.

                            And the legislators of the day who

                 represented those areas did what good

                 legislators should do:  they came up here to

                 get a fair share or a needed share of the pie

                 for their districts to meet some of these

                 problems.



                                                        4241



                            But it's that very constituency

                 thing.  They had the power, let's face it.

                 The political affiliations of most of those

                 suburban legislators were in favor at the time

                 in Albany, 50 or 60 years ago, in both houses.

                 So they were able to get what they needed for

                 their districts.

                            And you know what?  The other side

                 didn't fight that hard.  The people, frankly,

                 in those days that represented New York City

                 didn't fight that hard about this because,

                 hey, New York City was doing great, booming.

                 Yeah, a lot of people seemed to be moving

                 away, but we didn't seem to have any room for

                 them anyway.  Forget about the drain on the

                 tax, the ultimate drain on the taxable

                 population.

                            But, you know, middle-class people

                 were moving out to the suburbs.  That's fine,

                 took the pressure off.  You know, apartments

                 weren't that plentiful after World War II

                 anyway.  You know, nowhere for the kids to

                 stay here when they got married.  Let them go

                 to the 'burbs.

                            So the city didn't really fight



                                                        4242



                 that hard in those old days, as this little

                 effort -- and it started as so many of the

                 things we've all done as members for our

                 districts, it starts a little bit and it grows

                 and grows.

                            Then we end up, over decades, with

                 this huge state contribution to education, but

                 it never rectified or adjusted to the new

                 reality, the new needs of places like New York

                 City and our upstate cities that were losing

                 the manufacturing tax base and the ability to

                 sustain school systems and meet the needs,

                 coupled with, of course, immigrants with

                 special needs.

                            We never adjusted.  Because we

                 stayed in that mode of where's the school

                 runs, how much is my district getting, that's

                 what I care about.  How many of you ever said,

                 when you got the school runs, I want to see

                 what they're getting over here, not in my

                 district?  And I don't mean looking to see if

                 they're getting more than you.  I mean looking

                 to see if they're getting enough somewhere

                 else.

                            We don't look, we've never looked



                                                        4243



                 at that as our job to look at those runs for

                 somebody else's area and see, gee, are we

                 meeting our collective civic obligation to

                 educate those kids.  It's not the nature of

                 the beast.  It doesn't get you reelected.

                            Well, it wasn't the nature of the

                 beast a century ago for Teddy Roosevelt or Al

                 Smith or whatever to take care of those other

                 people that they didn't represent.  But it was

                 better for our state.  And we have to get back

                 to that mindset.

                            And, look, it's not just this

                 Legislature.  It's the same mentality that

                 drives the single-member-district elected U.S.

                 Congress to decide they need homeland security

                 money in Montana at a huge per-capita amount,

                 much greater than they're giving to New York

                 State or New York City, which we unfortunately

                 know is the prime target and has borne the

                 brunt of prior attacks.  But it's more like

                 we've got to treat that like pork too.

                            And, you know, I don't know how we

                 get out of that mindset.  But that's why we're

                 here on this CFE problem.  When I was first

                 elected 26 years ago, I had people saying to



                                                        4244



                 me:  You have to do something about that

                 school aid formula.  New York City has

                 37 percent of the state's school population

                 and it only gets, at the time, 34.5 percent of

                 the school aid.

                            I was up here a while and I learned

                 something.  There's no school aid formula.

                 You all know there's never been a school aid

                 formula.  It's all made up afterwards to drive

                 the numbers.  Once everybody is happy with the

                 numbers their district is getting, the techies

                 go make up a formula.  That's why it's so

                 obtuse and convoluted and whatever, because it

                 has to drive the dollars that have already

                 been decided upon.

                            So this isn't about, oh, we have a

                 faulty formula, let's change it.  We have a

                 faulty mindset about how we cut up the state's

                 fiscal resources.  We don't necessarily say

                 let's apply it where it's needed most.  We

                 totally succumb and -- look, it's a

                 representative democracy.  There's always that

                 element of you have to take care of the people

                 who elected you, you have to look out for your

                 own local parochial concerns in your district.



                                                        4245



                            But, you know, when is the last

                 time we all said, gee, you know, is somewhere

                 else getting enough?  Why do you care?  Well,

                 if all you care is about is your next

                 reelection, you don't care.  If you care about

                 where the State of New York is going to be

                 five or 10 or 20 years from now, then you

                 ought to care.  It's our responsibility.

                            This proposal, in my mind, doesn't

                 address the problem.  It doesn't address it in

                 the right spirit.  It doesn't address it with

                 enough resources.  I'm not sure any other

                 proposal I've seen doesn't do anything more.

                 Maybe better for my constituents, some of

                 other proposals.  Certainly better for my

                 city.

                            But I don't know if any of them are

                 out there in the proper spirit of let's

                 address the needs for the future of the state,

                 not just for bragging rights in your district.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

                 you, Mr. President.  I will try to stay within

                 the time limit.



                                                        4246



                            I want to just identify myself,

                 first and foremost, with Senator Bonacic and

                 his words.  I think that he is absolutely

                 correct.  And as he throws up his hands in

                 frustration, I join him.  This is quite a

                 frustrating time, to see a legislature so

                 completely broken.

                            However, I understand that he

                 probably wasn't -- didn't intend to refer to

                 this house, but I will take his words and use

                 them for our house.  I know he was trying to

                 say the other house, but I'm going to say it's

                 broken in our house here as well.

                            And I hear all of this -- these

                 conversations.  I know that Senator Hoffmann,

                 she throws up her hands, she's frustrated with

                 the Board of Regents.  I see that this is

                 blame the victim.  So it's the fault of the

                 children, the fault of the communities, the

                 fault of the judges, the fault of everyone

                 that we hear today, and not our own fault.

                            So I really -- I can't imagine how

                 we've come to this point in history in our

                 state.  However, we have to deal with what we

                 have.



                                                        4247



                            Now, I've been trying to look

                 through the legislation, and I thought that a

                 major part of the mandate, the requirement

                 from the judge, was that we should create a

                 new and equitable formula for funding public

                 education.  That's what I thought.  But as I

                 look through here, I can't find that formula.

                 So I must be overlooking something.  I haven't

                 had time to scrutinize this legislation

                 carefully and page by page, but I've been

                 trying desperately to, and I don't see.

                            Now, I know that there have been a

                 number of issues raised over the years.  What

                 have we done about the issue of save harmless?

                 Where is that?  Do we address that in this

                 legislation?  What is -- what have we done,

                 what does this legislation do about the

                 problem that we have in New York City, in

                 particular, about the accountability of funds

                 directed to education?  We have, over the

                 years, given more money to New York City.  And

                 we can never know what happened to the money,

                 because they all seem to say they never

                 received it.  So somewhere along the away, the

                 money is displaced, or whatever happens to it,



                                                        4248



                 but we can't track it.  It's not a transparent

                 process.  There is no accountability for it.

                            Where is that?  Is that in this

                 legislation?  Because I thought for sure if

                 we're giving this much more money, we should

                 have some more accountability.  I haven't been

                 able to find it.  Where's the flexibility?

                 People at the local level have asked for some

                 flexibility.  They would like to be able to

                 make decisions about the funding for various

                 programs, the design, the approach to programs

                 and issues at the local level.  Is that in

                 this bill?  I don't see any of that.

                            I see some new things in here that

                 I never heard of, I never heard anybody

                 particularly ask for.  We have a "Teacher of

                 the Year" award somewhere in here.  And we

                 have this new thing we call some sort of

                 national board of certification grant.  And

                 some new little bits and pieces.  Then we have

                 a creation of this thing called the Office of

                 Educational Accountability, where we're now

                 harassing the State Ed Commissioner one more

                 time.

                            So I don't see what we have been



                                                        4249



                 instructed to do by the judge.  But I see a

                 whole lot of other things in here that I don't

                 know of anyone making any request about or

                 anybody saying there was a problem with it.

                            So I think that, yes, I would like

                 to have a discussion with Senator Saland, who

                 is the author of this, or Mr. Rules or

                 somebody about this.  I would like to be able

                 to share my thoughts and my concerns.

                            And most of all, I think that we do

                 a tremendous disservice when we don't work

                 together to try to come up, at least in some

                 instances -- and this is one of them.  There

                 should be some level where we say we will not

                 go beyond this.  There should be some standard

                 of requirement where we have to work together

                 for the good of the whole.  And then we can go

                 back to having our press conferences.

                            I have press conferences too,

                 ladies and gentlemen, when I have nothing to

                 say but I wish to make sure my constituents

                 know I'm still here.  So I say something.  I

                 have a press conference.  We all can do that.

                 We all have access to the press.

                            But on this issue, where the future



                                                        4250



                 of our state and the future of our nation and

                 the young people that we're going to send to

                 West Point and to Annapolis and to the

                 universities around the country and throughout

                 the world, and we're going to go to fight our

                 wars and we're going to try to send them to

                 make peace in the world, we should not allow

                 ourselves to fall into the trap and the habit

                 of having a press conference on nothingness

                 before we are willing to sit down and honestly

                 negotiate for the benefit of the whole.

                            So, Mr. President, I'm voting no on

                 this legislation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Schneiderman, to close for the Minority.

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  Very, very briefly.

                            I appreciate all of the emotion

                 that's been reflected in the comments here,

                 but I'd like to try and bring this back to the

                 decision of the Court of Appeals.  Because

                 after today, when we walk out of here having

                 passed this one-house bill that I respectfully

                 submit will not survive scrutiny if it were to

                 become the law and were submitted to the



                                                        4251



                 court, we still have to deal with the fact

                 that we're under a court order.

                            And there have been a lot of

                 disparaging comments made about the decision

                 in the Campaign for Fiscal Equity.  And I

                 respectfully request that my colleagues take a

                 closer look at that decision, because this is

                 a carefully reasoned decision that documents a

                 crisis.  We're not here because people are

                 greedy.  We're here because the trial court

                 and the Court of Appeals found that New York

                 City schools are in a state of crisis and

                 failing hundreds of thousands of children.

                            It is not true that the Court of

                 Appeals did not give us guidance as to what

                 constitutes a sound, basic education.  I'm

                 reading from the opinion.  It was first set

                 forth in the 1995 Campaign for Fiscal Equity

                 opinion, in which the court made it clear that

                 the Court of Appeals is responsible for

                 adjudicating the nature of the duty to provide

                 a sound, basic education.

                            And the court said, and this is --

                 I'm just trying to bring us down to earth

                 here -- "A sound, basic education is equated



                                                        4252



                 with the basic literacy, calculating, and

                 verbal skills necessary to enable children to

                 eventually function productively as civic

                 participants capable of voting and serving on

                 a jury."

                            We are not talking about a fancy

                 education.  The Court of Appeals has said

                 you've got to give our children the minimum,

                 the minimum skills they require for basic

                 literacy, calculating and verbal skills.  Is

                 that too much to ask?

                            We are here today because the State

                 of New York has failed and whether you look

                 like it or not, the Constitution of the State

                 of New York says it's the duty of the

                 Legislature to provide for the system of

                 common schools.

                            So the court has given us guidance.

                 The court has documented a crisis, a crisis in

                 which 17 percent of the New York City teachers

                 are uncertified, versus a much small portion

                 nationwide; where there is this unbelievable

                 failure of the physical plant.  Out of 350

                 buildings, only 41 ranked in good to fair

                 condition or better.  Everything else was --



                                                        4253



                 and in some cases, they had water pouring

                 down, they had children being taught in

                 bathrooms and in closets.  The testimony is

                 all there.

                            So we're here because of a crisis.

                 We're here to solve a crisis.  I hope this is

                 just the first step.  I realize everyone here

                 knows it's a one-house bill.  We have to get

                 back and negotiate.

                            But let's not pretend we're here

                 because of the greed of the people of the City

                 of New York.  And I would urge my upstate

                 colleagues and my colleagues from outside of

                 the city, we need to tone down the rhetoric,

                 the us-versus-them rhetoric, because it's not

                 going to help us solve the problem.

                            A lot of the references to the City

                 of New York, I remind my colleagues that in

                 the last year for which we have data, 2003,

                 the taxpayers of the City of New York sent

                 $3.5 billion more to the state than we

                 received back in funds and services.

                            The people of the City of New York

                 have the greatest concentration of wealth in

                 the state but also the greatest concentration



                                                        4254



                 of poverty.  Of the 2.5 million New Yorkers

                 living below the poverty line, 1.7 million are

                 in New York City.

                            So we're not greedy.  We're

                 subsidizing the rest of the state.  The Court

                 of Appeals has found that our school system is

                 in crisis.  And under the constitution of this

                 state, the Legislature has to fix it.

                            So let's not pretend that if we

                 swap one-house bills with the Assembly and

                 walk away we are complying with our

                 constitutional duty.  We have a constitutional

                 duty; we also have a moral duty to get this

                 resolved so that we don't fail another

                 generation of schoolchildren.

                            I'm voting no on this bill.  I

                 don't know where we go from here.  I hope that

                 the chairman of the Education Committee

                 perhaps can give us some guidance.  But I

                 certainly hope that we are not contemplating

                 adjourning without more efforts to resolve

                 this problem, to come up with an actual

                 two-house bill that can become a law.  If we

                 do that, I think that, as Senator Bruno said

                 some time ago, we ought to be embarrassed, we



                                                        4255



                 ought to be ashamed.

                            And I really question, question our

                 ability to go to our constituents and ask for

                 their support this fall if we walk out of

                 Albany without addressing this issue.

                            I urge everyone to vote no, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Saland, to close for the Majority.

                            SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            Mr. President, we certainly have,

                 for more than one quarter, more than one

                 member of this body, heard discussion of

                 frustration.  I think it's safe to say there

                 can't be anybody in this house who is not

                 frustrated.  Speaking for myself, I'm

                 certainly frustrated with a system that has

                 been openly and notoriously, with total

                 abandon, hostaged.  The Speaker made no bones

                 about it.  He basically said no CFE, no

                 budget.  And he's been true to his word.  No

                 CFE, no budget.

                            And I suspect -- in fact, I'm

                 somewhat surprised more than being



                                                        4256



                 suspicious -- I suspect that many of us either

                 have very short memories or have conveniently

                 suffered memory lapse.  A couple of weeks ago,

                 there was nothing on the horizon for CFE.  And

                 Senator Bruno decided that enough was enough,

                 he was going to advance a proposal, that this

                 conference, this Senate Majority conference

                 was going to advance a proposal.

                            And we did that.  The fact of the

                 matter is there would still be nothing out

                 there and we would just be chalking the days

                 off the calendar getting closer to July 30th

                 if this conference didn't decide we had to

                 make a good-faith effort to try and bring

                 closure to this issue.

                            Now, I take no joy when the media

                 contacts me and says:  Much of what you said

                 back in September certainly seems prophetic

                 now, in September of 2003.  And I said, I

                 don't want to be a prophet.  I take no joy in

                 being a prophet.  And I hope that I'm not a

                 prophet.

                            What I said I said not to be an

                 ogre, not to incite people.  I said it because

                 I simply understood the dynamics, I understood



                                                        4257



                 the political process, and I understood that,

                 without attempting to condemn the court, we

                 have a court that made an activist decision.

                 That could be a good thing, that could be a

                 bad thing.  It all depends upon your

                 perspective from where you sit.

                            But the bottom line is that the

                 court has effectively set itself up as the

                 final determinant of what shall constitute a

                 sound, basic education.

                            Because the fact of the matter is

                 that while, as Senator Schneiderman made

                 reference to Judge Ciparick's 1995 decision in

                 which she wrote for the majority, the simple

                 fact is an adequacy standard is certainly not

                 what CFE is maintaining.  And I tend to think

                 they'd be rather distressed by Senator

                 Schneiderman's comments that that's all that

                 should be done.

                            Because what CFE is saying, using

                 their professional judgment model, as was

                 alluded to earlier by Senator Brown, is that

                 there's some 517 districts that are being

                 inadequately funded.

                            Now, they're being inadequately



                                                        4258



                 funded because in this professional judgment

                 model, which is really a somewhat ivory tower

                 approach to dealing with an issue, they've

                 decided that, among other things, there should

                 be class sizes of 14 to 16, a standard not

                 found anywhere in the world unless you happen

                 to live in an extraordinarily small class --

                 district with small classes, and this would be

                 for purposes of elementary school.  They've

                 decided that prekindergarten should start with

                 3-year-olds.

                            These may be wonderful concepts,

                 but somebody's got to foot the bill.  The

                 bottom line is, when they gave us their

                 proposal, notwithstanding the passion and the

                 zeal and the strength of conviction that they

                 had, it was alluded to a bit earlier by

                 Senator Bonacic, there was a little obscure

                 footnote.

                            And what that footnote said -- and

                 if you want to look at their initial report,

                 it's on page 2, it's Footnote 5.  It says:  It

                 must be recognized that the success of schools

                 also depends on other individuals and

                 institutions to provide the help, intellectual



                                                        4259



                 stimulus, and family support upon which public

                 school systems can build.  Schools cannot and

                 do not perform their role in a vacuum.  And

                 this is an important qualification of

                 conclusions reached in any study of adequacy

                 in education.

                            Now, nothing would be more

                 dangerous for any of you who were talking

                 about the Assembly and their numbers than to

                 go home and say, This is the number that the

                 Assembly provides, this is what we'll get.

                 Because there can't be anybody in this chamber

                 who truly believes, who truly believes that

                 any one of your districts are going to receive

                 the money in that press release piece.

                            You know it's not going to happen,

                 I know it's not going to happen, and you know

                 why it's out there.

                            Now, the same 517 school districts

                 out of the approximate 680 that reference has

                 been made to have also been, in effect,

                 evaluated by the very Regents that we've been

                 talking about.  They say that some 330 of them

                 are what they term successful school

                 districts.



                                                        4260



                            So on the one hand you have CFE

                 saying 75 percent of the districts are

                 unsuccessful, and the Regents saying nearly

                 50 percent of them are successful.  An

                 interesting conflict.  I don't know how it

                 resolves, but certainly you take it from

                 whence it comes.

                            With respect to the amount of

                 money, the Zarb Commission identified a

                 resource gap statewide of $2.5 billion for

                 high-needs school districts.  They said

                 $1.9 billion of that was in the City of

                 New York.  This bill provides operating aid to

                 the City of New York of $2.83 billion.  It

                 certainly meets the resource gap.

                            I submit to you, not because I

                 derive any pleasure from it, that even if we

                 came up with an agreement -- let's assume that

                 we can.  And certainly we would like to.

                 Nobody should want to go to court.  Period,

                 the end.  I will only cite the experience in

                 New Jersey.  They've been in court for 33

                 years.  The courts have effectively taken over

                 their education system.  Nobody will dispute

                 that.



                                                        4261



                            The fact of the matter is, is that

                 we can think that we have created whatever it

                 is that constitutes a sound, basic education,

                 but you know what?  Until somebody gets back

                 to the Court of Appeals and they put their

                 imprimatur on it, we don't know that we're

                 there.

                            It's much like Justice Potter

                 Stewart, when asked to define pornography,

                 said:  "I can't define it, but I know it when

                 I see it."  And that's what's going to happen

                 here if we go back to court.

                            And even if we come to an

                 agreement, let's assume for the moment both

                 houses and the Governor come to an agreement

                 and CFE says, No, not good enough.  We're the

                 plaintiff, we want to continue in court, we'll

                 take our chance in court.

                            Only the Court of Appeals, not

                 Judge DeGrasse -- and I'll tell you quite

                 candidly, there's nothing that CFE will ask

                 for that Judge DeGrasse won't give them.  He

                 gave them far more than the Court of Appeals

                 gave them.

                            I mean, it's all about the



                                                        4262



                 appellate process, and that takes time.  And

                 keep in mind, the City of Utica is talking

                 about suing, the City of Syracuse is talking

                 about suing.  I can identify at least probably

                 five or six lawsuits that will spring up

                 around the state, minimally.

                            Those five or six lawsuits will go

                 to different venues, different appellate

                 divisions, work their way back to the Court of

                 Appeals.  There will be multiple decisions

                 until this is resolved, over, again, Lord only

                 knows how long of a time period.

                            I would just like to point out a

                 couple of other things.  I mean, it's pretty

                 well basic math, if we are providing

                 $4.7 billion more over what's currently about

                 $14.5 billion over a five-year period, that's

                 33 percent, an increase of 33 percent.  That

                 is well in excess of the rate of inflation,

                 averaging about 6.6 percent per year.

                 Inflation has been hovering in the

                 2-plus-percent range for Lord only knows how

                 long.

                            As I mentioned in my earlier

                 remarks, average $450 million or so over the



                                                        4263



                 course of the past 10 years.  We're proposing

                 to provide here $950 million.  There's no

                 district that will fail to get at least what

                 they received, and in all likelihood more,

                 under this proposal.

                            The bottom line is, this is a

                 balanced proposal.  It meets the requirements

                 of the court's decision.  The court did not

                 require any particular formula.  The court did

                 not say you've got to adopt the Regents'

                 standards.  In fact, it specifically rejected

                 the Regents' standards.  There's a host of

                 things that the court did or didn't say.

                            But there's nobody who can say with

                 any degree of authority that this does not

                 provide by way of meeting the resource gap, by

                 way of providing for a sound, basic education,

                 by way of providing some 5-plus billion

                 dollars, closer to $6 billion over that

                 five-year period to the City of New York, that

                 we haven't endeavored to adequately fund what

                 the court has required of us.

                            I would respectfully submit to you

                 that this conference should take great pride

                 in bringing this before this body.  We should



                                                        4264



                 similarly feel equally proud in the fact that

                 did we not take this action, we would still be

                 dealing with an obstructionist in the Assembly

                 who in effect would not merely hostage this,

                 but use this, in effect, to extort anything

                 and everything else that they could get their

                 hands on.

                            The bottom line is, please let's

                 not go to court.  I fear, however, that's

                 where we're going to wind up.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll call.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Party vote

                 in the negative.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Party vote in

                 the affirmative, with exception.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 A. Smith, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.



                                                        4265



                            I have listened closely to the

                 debate.  And I am even more perplexed than I

                 was when we started.  Because I know fully now

                 that the acronym LEARN does not mean anything

                 that is good for the children of the City of

                 New York.  LEARN, in this case, should mean

                 Let's Erase All Reasonable Needs, rather than

                 something that is positive.

                            If this should go into effect, the

                 children of the City of New York will be back

                 where they started from.  It is not time to

                 return to our archaic system.  The CFE

                 decision was the right decision for our

                 children, and we need to dig in our heels and

                 fulfill the obligations that the courts have

                 put upon us.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Ada Smith was recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Hassell-Thompson, to

                 explain her vote.

                            SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

                 you, Mr. President.

                            I am voting no, which will sound

                 strange back in the district, because I have

                 been one who has been pushing for us to come



                                                        4266



                 up with a budgetary response to CFE.  But I'm

                 voting no because this is not the answer.

                            When I have spoken in my district

                 and people have said to me, Why haven't you

                 passed the budget, and what is wrong with the

                 vote and what's going on up there, my answer

                 has been:  I have encouraged us to pass a

                 budget limited to whatever influence I have in

                 these chambers.  But I won't push for us to

                 pass a budget that is not going to be in the

                 best interests of all children in the State of

                 New York.

                            And so we are going to wait until

                 we have a CFE response.  Many people said,

                 Well, why did you vote -- from Westchester,

                 why did you sign on to the CFE?  And I said,

                 Because 84 percent of my district is in the

                 Bronx.  And the children in New York City, and

                 if you have been through my district -- and I

                 would encourage and invite anyone who would

                 like to come to the school districts.  I'd

                 like you to see the inadequacy of the

                 classrooms.  I'd like you to see the size of

                 rooms that were storerooms that have been

                 taken over to become classrooms.



                                                        4267



                            I would like you to see three

                 different schools functioning within a school,

                 in an attempt to create small schools.  I'd

                 like you to see one school on the first floor,

                 one on the second floor, one on the third

                 floor, none of which are responding to smaller

                 classrooms.

                            And so when we talk about leaving

                 no child behind, we are leaving scores of

                 children behind.  We cannot talk about a

                 global concept and then deny our children an

                 opportunity to be educated properly.

                            We have failed them.  Brown versus 

                 the Board of Education, we commemorated it,

                 but we could not celebrate it because we have

                 still denied the children of this country the

                 right to be educated properly.

                            And while we may not see this as

                 our obligation and our responsibility, we

                 would be very angry if the courts had told us

                 how to do our job.  And our job is to work

                 with and create a plan that is in the best

                 interests of all of the children in the state

                 of New York.

                            And it's going to be difficult



                                                        4268



                 because we have different regional needs, we

                 have different cultural needs, we have

                 different educational needs.  But difficult is

                 not impossible.  We are being asked to do the

                 impossible, but we have the skill and the

                 ability to do that.

                            And until we do that, I will

                 continue to vote no.  I thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Hassell-Thompson is recorded in the negative.

                            Senator Parker, to explain his

                 vote.

                            SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I'm unfortunately having to vote no

                 on this bill because this CFE decision is

                 exactly about what we've talked the least

                 about today, which is about the children.  The

                 children not just of the city of New York,

                 although the 1.1 million school kids that go

                 for public school in the city are at the heart

                 of this.

                            And I'm actually just, I guess,

                 again, for the second day in a row,



                                                        4269



                 disappointed in what's happened.  Because the,

                 I guess, insincere and disingenuous attempts

                 to deal with this issue and bring the budget

                 to a resolution is very worrisome as to me.

                            Budgets are about priorities.  And

                 either the children of the state of New York

                 are a priority and their education is a

                 priority or it's not.  And this is about

                 children.  This is not about placing blame

                 with other agencies or with the Regents or

                 anyone else.

                            It's important that we understand

                 that we have to provide the money.  We have no

                 choice.  The courts have determined it.  And

                 it's interesting to me that after hearing so

                 much debate on this floor about the letter of

                 the law, about obeying, you know, laws and

                 about how we have to penalize when they don't

                 obey laws, that people here actually are

                 disturbed by the fact that the courts have

                 mandated something and we are now, you know,

                 faced to do it and there's a real reluctance

                 to get this done.

                            I'm voting no.  We have to get this

                 settled sometime shortly.  And I'm hoping that



                                                        4270



                 our next attempt is a more sincere one.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Parker is recorded in the negative.

                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 34.  Nays,

                 25.  Party vote with exception.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Malcolm Smith, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR MALCOLM SMITH:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, I request unanimous consent to be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 1134.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection Senator Malcolm Smith will be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1134.

                            Senator Paterson.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Mr. President,

                 without objection, I'd like to similarly be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number

                 1134.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Paterson will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 1134.



                                                        4271



                            Senator Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.

                 President, I would like unanimous consent to

                 be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1134.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 1134.

                            Senator Liz Krueger, why do you

                 rise?

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I'm

                 following a trend.  I would also like to ask

                 for unanimous consent to be recorded in the

                 negative on 1134.  Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Liz Krueger will be

                 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1134.

                            Senator Ada Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    I'm usually a

                 trendsetter, but today I'm a follower.  I also

                 would ask for unanimous consent to be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar Number 1134.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

                 objection, Senator Ada Smith will be recorded

                 in the negative on Calendar 1134.

                            Senator Larkin.



                                                        4272



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President,

                 there will be an immediate meeting of the

                 Rules Committee in Room 332.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

                 Room 332, the Majority Conference Room.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Let's now return

                 to motions and resolutions.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Motions

                 and resolutions.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  Amendments are offered to the

                 following Third Reading Calendar bills:

                            By Senator Little, on page 18,

                 Calendar Number 568, Senate Print Number 5533;

                            By Senator Hannon, on page 21,

                 Calendar Number 713, Senate Print Number

                 1091 --

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Just a

                 second, Senator.

                            We're still conducting business,

                 members.

                            Senator Seward.

                            SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.



                                                        4273



                            By Senator Rath, on page 40,

                 Calendar Number 1174, Senate Print Number

                 4505A;

                            One of my bills, on page 40,

                 Calendar Number 1179, Senate Print Number

                 6679A;

                            Another one of my bills, page 40,

                 Calendar Number 1180, Senate Print Number

                 6708;

                            By Senator Rath, on page 49,

                 Calendar Number 1358, Senate Print Number

                 7013B;

                            By Senator Marcellino, on page 52,

                 Calendar Number 1497, Senate Print Number

                 7331;

                            By Senator Bonacic, on page 20,

                 Calendar Number 675, Senate Print Number 6391;

                            By Senator Kuhl, on page 47,

                 Calendar Number 1321, Senate Print Number

                 6878A;

                            And finally, by Senator Hannon, on

                 page 8, Calendar Number 266, Senate Print

                 Number 4016A.

                            I move that these bills retain

                 their place on the order of third reading.



                                                        4274



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bills will retain their place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Print

                 Number 7171, recalled from the Assembly, which

                 is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1361, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 7171,

                 an act to authorize the County of Rockland.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                                                        4275



                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 on page number 57, I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 677, Senate

                 Print Number 6777, and ask that said bill

                 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar,

                 and remove the sponsor's star.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.  The bill

                 will retain its place on the Third Reading

                 Calendar.  The sponsor's star will be removed.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Senate

                 Print Number 7424, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



                                                        4276



                 1600, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 11354, an act to amend

                 the Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed and ask that the bill be

                 restored to the order of third reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is restored to the order of third reading.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Print Number 11354 and

                 substitute it for my identical bill.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1600, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,



                                                        4277



                 Assembly Print Number 11354, an act to amend

                 the Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I wish to call up Calendar Number

                 1393, Assembly Print Number 10968.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1393, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 10968, an act to amend

                 the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.



                                                        4278



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I now move to

                 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

                 bill was substituted for my bill, Senate Print

                 Number 6899, on May 25.  Which happened to be

                 my birthday, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    A

                 belated happy birthday.

                            And the Secretary will call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I now move that

                 Assembly Bill Number 10968 be recommitted to

                 the Committee on Rules and my Senate bill be

                 restored to the order of Third Reading

                 Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Maziarz.



                                                        4279



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Print

                 Number 2978A, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1271, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 2978A,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I now offer the

                 following amendments, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.



                                                        4280



                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Print

                 Number 4230, recalled from the Assembly, which

                 is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 120, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4230, an

                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                                                        4281



                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            More, Senator Maziarz?

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Several more,

                 Mr. President.

                            Mr. President, I wish to call up my

                 bill, Print Number 1465, recalled from the

                 Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 49, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1465, an

                 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

                 Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Maziarz.



                                                        4282



                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number

                 6831A, recalled from the Assembly, which is

                 now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1320, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 6831A,

                 an act to amend Chapter 412 of the Laws of

                 1990.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



                                                        4283



                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I now offer the

                 following amendments, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            Senator Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Print

                 Number 2611A, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 97, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2611A, an

                 act to authorize payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Mr. President,

                 I now move to reconsider the vote by which

                 this bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                                                        4284



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Maziarz.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    I now offer the

                 following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

                 much, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank

                 you, Senator Maziarz.  You must be exhausted.

                 You can sit down now.

                            Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President,

                 we'll now move to Supplemental Calendar 57A,

                 noncontroversial.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Larkin, could I interrupt?

                            We have two substitutions.  Could

                 we get those out of the way quickly.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read the substitutions.

                            THE SECRETARY:    On page 40,

                 Senator Robach moves to discharge, from the

                 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 10224



                                                        4285



                 and substitute it for the identical Senate

                 Bill Number 6660, Third Reading Calendar 1164.

                            And on page 43, Senator Farley

                 moves to discharge, from the Committee on

                 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 10808A and

                 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

                 Number 6661A, Third Reading Calendar 1228.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitutions ordered.

                            Senator Trunzo.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    Mr. President,

                 on page 40 I offer the following amendments to

                 Calendar Number 1177, Senate Print Number

                 5220B.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            SENATOR TRUNZO:    And also on page

                 55, I offer the following amendments to

                 Calendar Number 1605, Senate Print Number

                 7454, and ask that said bill retain its place

                 on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bill will retain its place on third reading.

                            Senator Larkin.



                                                        4286



                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President,

                 we'd like to turn now to Supplemental Calendar

                 57A, for the noncontroversial reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read noncontroversial reading

                 of Supplemental Calendar 57A.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1614, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print --

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Lay it aside.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

                 bill aside.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1615, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1793,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Actions and

                 Proceedings Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.



                                                        4287



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1616, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1846,

                 an act to amend the Real Property Actions and

                 Proceedings Law, in relation to payment.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 30th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1617, Senator Nozzolio moves

                 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 3980A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1931A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1617.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1617, by Member of the Assembly Oaks, Assembly



                                                        4288



                 Print Number 3980A, an act to amend the

                 Criminal Procedure Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1618, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 2372A,

                 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

                 relation to financing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.



                                                        4289



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1619, Senator Robach moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10961 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2766A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1619.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1619, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 10961, an act to amend

                 the General Obligations Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.



                                                        4290



                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1620, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 2778A, an

                 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

                 authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of July.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1622, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3523,

                 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and

                 the General Municipal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4291



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1623, Senator Robach moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Codes,

                 Assembly Bill Number 5983 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3948,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1623.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1623, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,

                 Assembly Print Number 5983, an act to amend

                 the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.



                                                        4292



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1624, Senator Wright moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 8747 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Print Number 4136,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1624.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1624, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 8747, an act to amend

                 the State Technology Law and others, in

                 relation to the Office for Technology.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



                                                        4293



                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1625, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4341,

                 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of January.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1626, by Senator Little, Senate Print 4620A,

                 an act to amend the County Law, in relation to

                 authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.



                                                        4294



                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1627, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 4773A,

                 an act to amend the State Administrative

                 Procedure Act, in relation to guidance

                 documents.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1628, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 4777A,

                 an act to amend the Correction Law and the

                 Public Health Law, in relation to regulation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.



                                                        4295



                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1629, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4947, an

                 act to amend the Public Authorities Law,

                 relation to conforming.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1630, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4951A, an



                                                        4296



                 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

                 relation to authorizing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 a home-rule message at the desk.

                            Read the last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1631, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5048B,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to the issuance.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 45th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,



                                                        4297



                 2.  Senators Duane and L. Krueger recorded in

                 the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1633, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print

                 5990, an act directing the fireboat E.M.

                 Cotter to be listed as historical property.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1634, Senator Leibell moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 9657 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6084,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1634.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:



                                                        4298



                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1634, by Member of the Assembly Bradley,

                 Assembly Print Number 9657, an act to amend

                 the Real Property Tax Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1635, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6233B,

                 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

                 Law, in relation to the placement.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



                                                        4299



                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1636, Senator Padavan moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Bill Number 10186A and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Print Number 6433,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1636.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1636, by Member of the Assembly Robinson,

                 Assembly Print Number 10186A, an act to amend

                 the Private Housing Finance Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4300



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1637, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 6530,

                 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to

                 exempting.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect July 1.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

                 1.  Senator Krueger recorded in the negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1638, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6818,

                 an act to amend the General Obligations Law,

                 in relation to the authority of caregivers.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



                                                        4301



                 act shall take effect on the 90th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1639, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6821A,

                 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law,

                 in relation to aggressive driving.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

                 act shall take effect on the 180th day.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1640, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 6836, an

                 act authorizing Richard D. Sanow to receive

                 retirement credit.



                                                        4302



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1641, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7018A,

                 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control

                 Law, in relation to reducing.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

                 act shall take effect immediately.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Larkin, that completes the



                                                        4303



                 noncontroversial reading of Supplemental

                 Calendar 57A.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President,

                 can we now have the controversial reading of

                 the calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will conduct the controversial

                 reading of the calendar.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1614, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 1245,

                 an act to amend the Education Law.

                            SENATOR PATERSON:    Explanation.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Johnson, Senator Paterson has requested an

                 explanation of Calendar 1614.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Mr. President,

                 this bill has been drawn up to meet the

                 requirements of a Supreme Court decision of

                 the year 2000 which said you cannot have a

                 referendum -- well, this first calls for the

                 present referendum on mandatory or voluntary

                 student activity fees.

                            But the way we're doing in it in

                 New York State, we also have a separate vote

                 on the activity fee money diverted to NYPIRG.



                                                        4304



                 The court decision said that's illegal, you

                 can't do it, it's unconstitutional.

                            So all this says is we have one

                 vote for all the student activity fees, and

                 the student council or student body will

                 devise how much money goes to each different

                 agency.  That's all it does.

                            And it also has a vote every two

                 years.  Now, the State University, for

                 example, has a vote every four years, so some

                 students never get a chance to vote even once

                 on this activity fee, whether they want it

                 mandatory or voluntary.

                            So this way, every two years, you

                 figure everyone at least has an opportunity to

                 vote one time or maybe twice during their

                 college career on whether or not to continue

                 this mandatory activity fee.

                            That's about it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stavisky.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Mr. President,

                 if the sponsor would yield to a question.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Johnson, do you yield for a question?



                                                        4305



                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    There are lots

                 of fees that students pay.  And in fact, the

                 activity fee at SUNY I believe is $100.  And

                 yet there are other fees that are in the

                 neighborhood of, average, $800 per student.

                            Why doesn't this legislation

                 pertain to those fees, the laboratory fees,

                 parking fees, fees for the artistic programs

                 and so on?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    There is

                 another bill that deals with those fees.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    I'm sorry, I

                 can't hear you.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    There's another

                 bill, by Senator LaValle, which deals with

                 those fees.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Oh, okay.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    This also

                 covers SUNY and CUNY and community colleges.

                 I should add that as well.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    If the Senator



                                                        4306



                 will continue to yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Johnson, do you continue to yield?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Senator yields.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Why is SUNY

                 included in this legislation when they gave

                 notice last month that they intend to require

                 the two-year renewal fee?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Well, they

                 didn't tell me.  So I didn't know about it.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Well, it was

                 posted in the New York State Register on May

                 19th.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Well, we're

                 making laws, we're not making regulations.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    If the Senator

                 would -- I have two more questions, if the

                 Senator would yield.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Johnson, do you yield?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.



                                                        4307



                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 sponsor yields.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    You mentioned

                 the constitution.  And yet it's my

                 understanding that that court case, the United

                 States Supreme Court case involving University 

                 of Wisconsin versus Southworth, the Supreme

                 Court did not hold that referenda are

                 unconstitutional, it said that they had to be

                 neutral in their presentations.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Well, of course

                 you can't -- what they really said, you cannot

                 have a separate referendum for one

                 organization.  You have to decide among all

                 the organizations on a neutral, objective

                 manner in order to comply with the First

                 Amendment.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    My last

                 question before I very briefly speak on the

                 bill, there are memoranda in opposition from

                 the City University of New York, the State

                 University of New York, the SUNY Student

                 Assembly, NYPIRG.

                            Who has requested this -- at whose

                 request is the bill being introduced?



                                                        4308



                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    At whose

                 request are you reading several-year-old

                 memoranda?

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    How old?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Several years

                 old.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Several years

                 old?

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Well, NYPIRG is

                 referring to a previous bill I had.  And

                 they're probably all referring to a previous

                 bill that I had.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    All right.  On

                 the bill, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stavisky, on the bill.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    For the

                 record, the City University memorandum is

                 dated June 15, 2004, the SUNY one is dated

                 June 15, 2004, and so on.  These were done on

                 the Assembly versions of the bills.

                            Very briefly, I think that this is

                 a mistake.  This is an intrusion on the

                 student activity -- the students' referenda in

                 terms of activities.  To impose a two-year



                                                        4309



                 requirement instead of the four-year is a

                 burden which will simply make it more

                 difficult.

                            And it refers to the previous

                 year's funding, not the current year funding,

                 so that they're voting on history, not the

                 future.

                            There is a question involving the

                 court case.  There are other problems with

                 this bill.

                            The SUNY Board of Trustees has

                 established guidelines, and the fees are

                 subject to administrative regulations by a

                 wide, wide cross-section of administrative

                 oversight by the campus presidents.

                            So I urge a no vote on this bill.

                 And hopefully this will remain in this house.

                            Thank you.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Ada Smith.

                            SENATOR ADA SMITH:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            As a product of the City University

                 of New York and also a member of the

                 University Student Senate, I take exception to



                                                        4310



                 this bill because it would do away with the

                 rights of students and it would put an onerous

                 burden on them.

                            And I concur with the trustees of

                 the City University and SUNY that this is bad

                 law, and therefore I will be voting in the

                 negative.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Liz Krueger.

                            SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

                 Mr. President.  On the bill.

                            I wanted to clarify I believe that

                 NYPIRG does still oppose it, because I ran

                 into them in the hallway when I went out, and

                 they were still on record as in opposition to

                 the bill, in addition to the City University

                 and State University and, as was mentioned,

                 the Student Assembly of SUNY.

                            I want us to think this one

                 through, though, a little bit more.  The

                 imposition that we'd be putting on our

                 universities to have to, with every tuition

                 bill, conceivably, list every student activity

                 would be a nightmare for our universities to

                 re-set up their billing, tuition and reporting



                                                        4311



                 system.

                            And while I understand, I believe,

                 the argument of the sponsor that you want to

                 make sure that students know where their fees

                 are going and have some say in it, the truth

                 is it's the year 2004 and college students in

                 particular are a subuniverse of young people

                 who are exceptionally good at using the

                 computer.

                            And it's my understanding that at

                 SUNY and CUNY campuses, all student-activity-

                 funded student groups are actually provided --

                 information is provided on the Internet.  So

                 any student can actually choose to get this

                 information at any time they wish, which is a

                 much less expensive and more effective way of

                 providing the information than having the

                 expectation that you would send this out with

                 quarterly -- or I guess it's not quarterly,

                 it's semester tuition bills.

                            It is a level of minutiae for this

                 Legislature to walk into the policy of our

                 State University system and our City

                 University system to mandate this kind of

                 requirement.  I don't see an argument for why



                                                        4312



                 we need to do this.  I have not certainly been

                 hearing complaints, at least in the city of

                 New York, from students about this.

                            And to some degree I'd argue if

                 it's not broke, don't try to fix it.  So I

                 will be respectfully be voting no.

                            Thank you, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Johnson.

                            SENATOR JOHNSON:    Mr. President,

                 I'm quite shocked to think that SUNY, CUNY and

                 whatever other agencies, community colleges,

                 would defy the First Amendment and say we

                 don't care what the Constitution says, we

                 still want to have separate votes for separate

                 organizations.

                            Even though this district court

                 order issued as a result of the Supreme Court

                 decision said:  It is further ordered that

                 judgment be entered in favor of the plaintiffs

                 and against the defendants.  The segregated

                 university fee utilized at the University of

                 Wisconsin is in violation of the First

                 Amendment because it fails to conform to the

                 principle of viewpoint neutrality in



                                                        4313



                 allocating fees compelled from plaintiffs,

                 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

                            So if you say the state doesn't

                 want to do it, they want to break the law.  If

                 you say it's an imposition to have a two-year

                 vote because it's too many votes for the poor

                 college, you're just saying that what SUNY

                 just did, you don't agree with.  They just

                 made it a two-year vote, as I've been informed

                 by Senator Stavisky.

                            So it's no imposition at all on

                 anybody.  All it says is maybe a person who

                 goes to college might have the opportunity to

                 vote once or maybe even twice during his

                 college career on it.  Some people will never

                 be able to vote.  If it's a four-year vote,

                 they'll probably graduate before it comes up

                 and they'll never have the chance to vote on

                 it.

                            I think every student and every

                 parent who is involved in paying this fee

                 should have some opportunity to express their

                 view whether this should be a mandatory fee or

                 not.  Simple as that.

                            Allocation of the money will be



                                                        4314



                 simply done by the student government, and

                 that's perfectly democratic and it's the way

                 it ought to be.

                            And this is a darn good bill.  You

                 ought to rethink your opposition and go for

                 it.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Montgomery.

                            SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.

                 President.  On the bill.

                            I tried to compare the attempt in

                 the bill to reconcile the practices at the

                 university and the ruling in the court case.

                 And it seems to be doing that, except I was

                 just curious as to why we added into that

                 legislation -- which seemed to be otherwise

                 neutral in its attempt to just simply make a

                 correction there -- but we add that the

                 election that every two years the student body

                 has the opportunity to vote on the student

                 fee, the student activity fee, whether it

                 should be mandatory or voluntary.

                            And I just -- I'm concerned that

                 having this kind of potentially very, very --

                 if you know students and how campuses operate



                                                        4315



                 and how they are very politicized, and there's

                 every two years there's, you know, this round

                 of people trucking through the campuses to

                 make speeches, and they politicize them.

                            And I'm just afraid that we're

                 going to jeopardize a very important aspect of

                 university life for students by making it

                 every two years having to vote on it.

                            And while some of the things that

                 activity fee may fund we may not necessarily

                 agree with, but one major part of that

                 activity fee is the health services and mental

                 health services for the students on those

                 campuses.  And I think that is extremely

                 important.

                            So I just -- I was a little

                 concerned, Mr. President, that we were adding

                 this one piece to what otherwise seemed to be

                 a good bill, in fact.  It brings us in line

                 with the court decision except for that piece.

                            So I'm still waiting to make my

                 decision, Mr. President.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This



                                                        4316



                 act shall take effect on the first of August.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stavisky, to explain her vote.

                            SENATOR STAVISKY:    Yeah, very

                 briefly.

                            We just gave the students a

                 tremendous increase in their tuition, both at

                 SUNY and CUNY.  And it seems to me that by --

                 what SUNY, particularly SUNY has done is

                 increased all of these other fees, whether

                 they be lab fees or parking fees or whatever.

                 It averages approximately $800 or $900 per

                 student.  I think we are socking the students

                 with additional problems when many students

                 cannot finish their education within four

                 years, they have to work.  And particularly

                 with the proposals to cut TAP, it makes it

                 very difficult for a student.

                            And this is just one more burden,

                 and I vote no.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative.



                                                        4317



                            Announce the results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

                 the negative on Calendar Number 1614 are

                 Senators Breslin, Brown, Duane,

                 Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery, Paterson,

                 Sabini, A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski,

                 Stavisky.  Also Senator Andrews.  Also Senator

                 Parker.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Could I

                 remind members that it's difficult for the

                 Secretary to record no votes if you're

                 scattered around the chamber.  You know, it's

                 better if you're going to be in your seat.

                            The Secretary will announce the

                 results.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Also Senator L.

                 Krueger.

                            Ayes, 45.  Nays, 14.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            The Secretary will continue to

                 read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

                 Calendar Number 1621, Senator Saland moves to

                 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,



                                                        4318



                 Assembly Bill Number 11317 and substitute it

                 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3018A,

                 Third Reading Calendar 1621.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

                 Substitution ordered.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1621, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

                 Assembly Print Number 11317, an act to amend

                 the Education Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

                 last section.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

                 act shall take effect on the first of

                 September.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

                 is passed.

                            Senator Larkin, that completes the

                 controversial reading of Supplemental Calendar

                 57A.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Can we now, Mr.



                                                        4319



                 President, return to reports of standing

                 committees.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

                 of standing committees.

                            The Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

                 from the Committee on Rules, reports the

                 following bills:

                            Senate Print 6408A, by Senator

                 Oppenheimer, an act authorizing the City of

                 New Rochelle;

                            7070, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Public Health Law;

                            7123, by Senator Farley, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law;

                            7133, by Senator Balboni, an act

                 requiring;

                            7145, by Senator Hoffmann, an act

                 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;

                            7185A, by Senator Padavan, an act

                 to amend the Real Property Law;

                            7311, by Senator Marcellino, an act

                 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law;

                            7314A, by Senator Spano, an act to

                 amend the Tax Law;



                                                        4320



                            7362A, by Senator Balboni, an act

                 to allow;

                            7372, by Senator Golden, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;

                            7389, by Senator Kuhl, an act to

                 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

                            7398, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and

                 Breeding Law;

                            7403, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

                 to amend the Labor Law;

                            7404A, by Senator Padavan, an act

                 to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

                            7405, by Senator Farley, an act

                 authorizing.

                            7461, by the Senate Committee on

                 Rules, an act authorizing the City of

                 New York;

                            7480, by Senator Volker, an act to

                 allow;

                            7481, by Senator McGee, an act

                 authorizing;

                            7491, by Senator Balboni, an act to

                 amend the Real Property Tax Law;

                            7499A, by Senator Spano, an act to



                                                        4321



                 amend the Public Authorities Law;

                            7505, by Senator Larkin, an act to

                 amend the Penal Law;

                            And Senate Print 7507, by Senator

                 Marcellino, an act to amend the Environmental

                 Conservation Law.

                            All bills ordered direct to third

                 reading.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Move to accept

                 the report of the Rules Committee.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

                 those in favor of accepting the report of the

                 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

                            (Response of "Aye.")

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

                 opposed, nay.

                            (No response.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

                            Senator Larkin.

                            SENATOR LARKIN:    Mr. President,

                 can we stand at ease for a few minutes.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                                                        4322



                 Senate will stand at ease.

                            (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

                 ease at 6:08 p.m.)

                            (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

                 at 6:12 p.m.)

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 if we could return to motions and resolutions.

                            On behalf of Senator Hannon, on

                 page number 41, I offer the following

                 amendments to Calendar Number 1197, Senate

                 Print 6656, and ask that said bill retain its

                 place on the Third Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bill will retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of myself, on page number 41 I offer

                 the following amendments to Calendar Number

                 1190, Senate Print Number 6610B, and ask that

                 said bill retain its place on the Third

                 Reading Calendar.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The



                                                        4323



                 amendments are received and adopted, and the

                 bill will retain its place on third reading.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 on behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to call up

                 his bill, Print Number 5452B, recalled from

                 the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 299, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5452B, an

                 act to amend Chapter 824 of the Laws of 1933.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which the

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to recommit the bill to the Committee



                                                        4324



                 on Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 7195C,

                 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at

                 the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 1596, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7195C,

                 an act to amend the Penal Law.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

                 roll on reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)

                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I



                                                        4325



                 now move to recommit the bill to the Committee

                 on Rules.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

                 ordered.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    I believe we'll

                 be having one more motion.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Little.

                            SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you, Mr.

                 President.

                            I wish to call up my bill, Print

                 Number 5869A, recalled from the Assembly,

                 which is now at the desk.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will read.

                            THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

                 456, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5869A, an

                 act to authorize the County of Washington.

                            SENATOR LITTLE:    Mr. President, I

                 now move to reconsider the vote by which this

                 bill was passed.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 Secretary will call the roll on

                 reconsideration.

                            (The Secretary called the roll.)



                                                        4326



                            THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

                 Little.

                            SENATOR LITTLE:    Mr. President, I

                 now offer the following amendments.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

                 amendments are received and adopted.

                            SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you very

                 much.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank

                 you, Senator Little.

                            Senator Skelos.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

                 is there any other housekeeping at the desk?

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

                 none.

                            SENATOR SKELOS:    There being no

                 further business to come before the Senate, I

                 move we stand adjourned until Monday, June

                 21st, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being

                 legislative days.

                            ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

                 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

                 Monday, June 21st, at 3:00 p.m., intervening

                 days being legislative days.



                                                        4327



                            (Whereupon, at 6:20 p.m., the

                 Senate adjourned.)